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Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: Thorn on December 12, 2002, 01:39:43 am

Title: Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: Thorn on December 12, 2002, 01:39:43 am: You know the kind of cab where the monitor is mounted below and seen through a mirror (mounted at 45 degrees)? They are mostly used for gun games. I will have terminator style guns on the new cab I'm building and I'm thinking this would get the monitor further away from the guns. The image would then appear to be at the back of the cabinet.
/
/
/
/ Mirror
/
/
---------
\ /
\ / Monitor or TV
L_l

The trouble is this would give a reversed image. I can't think of a way to reverse the monitor (in my case a TV) image so it appears normal when viewed through a mirror.

How about 2 mirrors?
/
/
/ Mirror 1
/
/
\ l\
\ l \__
\ l __] Monitor or TV
2 \ l /
\ l/

Now the problem is a LOT of room is needed. Image shouldn't be reversed but would appear behind the back of the cabinet. That might not look too good.

Maybe this is just another crazy idea that simply won't work without first getting a reversed image on the screen.

Any ideas if/how I could get this to work?
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: MooFrog on December 12, 2002, 02:05:38 am: Sounds pretty cool... you'd probably have to put the monitor in the base somewhere, and then bounce it.
Do you have the actual terminator guns? If so, I envy you!
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: REBIRTH on December 12, 2002, 07:01:13 am: I am not positive about this - but don't some of the front end software programs allow you to inverse the picture so that it would look correct thru a mirror? Like the arcadeathome front end allows you to flip the image which I think would produce the desired result. Again, I'm not positive but I would check out some front ends before building the 2 mirror idea.
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: Brad Lee on December 12, 2002, 09:11:00 am: Quote from: dgthompson on December 12, 2002, 07:01:13 am
I am not positive about this - but don't some of the front end software programs allow you to inverse the picture so that it would look correct thru a mirror? Like the arcadeathome front end allows you to flip the image which I think would produce the desired result. Again, I'm not positive but I would check out some front ends before building the 2 mirror idea.

MAME32 has options for flipping left/right and upside-down
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: android on December 12, 2002, 09:45:11 am: If you can't find a software method (preferred) to reverse the image, it can be done in hardware by reversing the horizontal deflection coils of the CRT tube's yoke. If you are not qualified to service monitors, any TV technician can do it for you.
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: creatine28 on December 12, 2002, 06:12:48 pm: Sounds like Arcades OS will reverse its menu, so you could use a mirror.
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas (1UP take a look!)
Post by: Thorn on December 12, 2002, 06:17:27 pm: I have the guns from steel gunner. Kinda modern looking compared to terminator guns. I used the 1Up method of making them work.

Thanks for the info on reverse images. I think the hardware reverse would work the best for me. I think I'll ask my friend at the local TV repair shop. That way even winblows will look rightside up. Didn't 1Up say he was thinking about rotating monitors (raster & vector I think)? Something like this with a mirror that moves might just be the way to go.

_
l l
/ \
/ \ Vector
/___\
\ l
\ l
\ l Glass
o <--Mirror l front
\ pivot l
\ point l
\ l
____
\ /
\ / Monitor/TV
\ /
l l

I hope this ascii art turns out better than the last one.
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: planetjay on December 12, 2002, 07:10:10 pm: Or use a 3way mirror like in OmegaRace. Have 1 monitor reflected and one behind (where the artwork is normally).

But how will you drive the vector monitor in MAME? ???
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: ArcadeFX on December 12, 2002, 07:33:04 pm: Pivot Pro will let you rotate any dispay on any monitor.

http://us2.portrait.com/products/pivotpro.htm (http://us2.portrait.com/products/pivotpro.htm)
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: Thorn on December 12, 2002, 07:52:56 pm: But how will you drive the vector monitor in MAME? ???

I'm not sure what he was planning. He will probably read this and reply. Maybe it wasn't a MAME thing.
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: rampy on December 12, 2002, 10:15:50 pm: Quote from: Thorn on December 12, 2002, 07:52:56 pm

But how will you drive the vector monitor in MAME? ???

I'm not sure what he was planning. He will probably read this and reply. Maybe it wasn't a MAME thing.

Isn'th there a special mame just for this (lasermame ?)

also this bit of hardware...

http://www.zektor.com/zvg/index.htm (http://www.zektor.com/zvg/index.htm)

pretty neat, eh?

rampy
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: planetjay on December 12, 2002, 10:36:16 pm: Last time I priced it, it was over $3000 for the hardware. I was hoping someone had a better Idea by now.
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: rampy on December 12, 2002, 10:53:28 pm: Quote from: planetjay on December 12, 2002, 10:36:16 pm
Last time I priced it, it was over $3000 for the hardware. I was hoping someone had a better Idea by now.

huh?
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: planetjay on December 13, 2002, 12:08:09 am: That they use to control the lasers. Works with vector monitors though.
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: SirPoonga on December 13, 2002, 01:03:51 am: Quote from: planetjay on December 12, 2002, 10:36:16 pm
Last time I priced it, it was over $3000 for the hardware. I was hoping someone had a better Idea by now.

That;s $3000 in lasers, could laser mame be modified to work with vector monitors????
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas (1UP take a look!)
Post by: 1UP on December 13, 2002, 01:47:00 am: Quote from: Thorn on December 12, 2002, 06:17:27 pm
I have the guns from steel gunner. Kinda modern looking compared to terminator guns. I used the 1Up method of making them work.

Thanks for the info on reverse images. I think the hardware reverse would work the best for me. I think I'll ask my friend at the local TV repair shop. That way even winblows will look rightside up. Didn't 1Up say he was thinking about rotating monitors (raster & vector I think)? Something like this with a mirror that moves might just be the way to go.

_
l l
/ \
/ \ Vector
/___\
\ l
\ l
\ l Glass
o <--Mirror l front
\ pivot l
\ point l
\ l
____
\ /
\ / Monitor/TV
\ /
l l

I hope this ascii art turns out better than the last one.

Well, I had no plans on doing this myself, just giving ideas for someone else. My TV is good enough for now, but sure wish someone made hi-res PC monitors in 27" size for less than $1000.... (Oh well, my TV is brighter anyway! ;) )

I'm planning to tackle the gun issue by putting them on removable bases that set back from the monitor about a foot. This also gives plenty of room to put start buttons, and possibly hide the custom recoil driver electronics....

(http://www.1uparcade.com/images/SW+T2.jpg)
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: rampy on December 13, 2002, 10:01:57 am: Quote from: SirPoonga on December 13, 2002, 01:03:51 am
Quote from: planetjay on December 12, 2002, 10:36:16 pm
Last time I priced it, it was over $3000 for the hardware. I was hoping someone had a better Idea by now.

That;s $3000 in lasers, could laser mame be modified to work with vector monitors????

I assumed/thought it could... and it can... I guess it's a question of how much the ISA card they talk about is (and where to get it... or would my previous link work) http://games.lasers.org/index.shtml (http://games.lasers.org/index.shtml)

*shrug* I don't plan on doing this project -> but thought I'd be a smartie pants and post the link to the zektor thingie I stumbled upon just the other day...

regards,

rampy
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: planetjay on December 13, 2002, 12:48:56 pm: The Pangolin QM2000 controller board that they used was $3000 last time I checked. This DOES NOT include lasers, amps, servos, etc. It is supposed to be able to connect directly to a vector monitor.

THAT IS JUST THE CARD. Can't anyone go to the site and then do their own research?
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: rampy on December 13, 2002, 02:04:35 pm: Quote from: planetjay on December 13, 2002, 12:48:56 pm
The Pangolin QM2000 controller board that they used was $3000 last time I checked. This DOES NOT include lasers, amps, servos, etc. It is supposed to be able to connect directly to a vector monitor.

THAT IS JUST THE CARD. Can't anyone go to the site and then do their own research?

OK smarta$$, go to the lasermame site and show me where it prices the pangolin controller... if it does price it all it's not in obvious place like FAQ or news, or ???

The other card I linked to was only 300 bucks did you look at that website to do your research?

(just busting stones, btw... I'm just bitchy cuz I'm selling my condo and moving this weekend, don't mind me... move along... nothing to see here)

rampy
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: Frostillicus on December 13, 2002, 02:25:29 pm: Yeah i posted that zektor thing a while back -
http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=1888 (http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=1888)

ironically, they haven't included the sega convert-a-games in their emulator(meaning no zektor yet :P ).

thorn: good luck with the mirror ideas - post pics when you get something going, sounds interesting
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: planetjay on December 13, 2002, 07:04:05 pm: Quote from: rampy on December 13, 2002, 02:04:35 pm
Quote from: planetjay on December 13, 2002, 12:48:56 pm
The Pangolin QM2000 controller board that they used was $3000 last time I checked. This DOES NOT include lasers, amps, servos, etc. It is supposed to be able to connect directly to a vector monitor.

THAT IS JUST THE CARD. Can't anyone go to the site and then do their own research?

OK smarta$$, go to the lasermame site and show me where it prices the pangolin controller... if it does price it all it's not in obvious place like FAQ or news, or ???

The other card I linked to was only 300 bucks did you look at that website to do your research?

(just busting stones, btw... I'm just bitchy cuz I'm selling my condo and moving this weekend, don't mind me... move along... nothing to see here)

rampy

I Google searched it back in 2000. But I think I'm the only one that uses that obscure site.
The Board (http://www.pangolin.com/LD2000/qm2000board.htm).
Price from one of their resellers. (http://www.taiserver.com/cprices.html#pangolin)
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: Thorn on December 14, 2002, 01:03:19 am: I'll certainly share (or is that brag) any success I have with the "mirror/reversed TV" setup. Luckily, I just bought a Subroc 3-D, so after I pick it up I'll see how Sega mounted the mirror inside. Because of other arcade projects (that will help buy MAME stuff), my new MAME cab is coming along very slowly. Don't expect any news soon.
(http://mywebpages.comcast.net/sugg3d/newcabinet2.jpg)
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: Lilwolf on December 15, 2002, 12:37:57 pm: btw, the design looks SWEET!
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: SNAAAKE on December 15, 2002, 02:50:56 pm: hey hey...i have seen one of these local(isnt is plastic supposed to be plastic cabine).

just wanted to say..NICE work yo..seriouslly...cloning made easy ;D.
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: Dav on December 24, 2002, 08:46:27 pm: I'm using an omega race cab. At first I used the software flip in mame but it doesn't work for all games so I swapped the yoke wires. It's pretty easy to do.

Dave
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: Thorn on December 24, 2002, 11:23:48 pm: Snaaake: Actually the original was a metal cabinet. I couldn't really make one out of metal so I just took lots of measurements at the arcade and put together my own design. Simplified it just a bit.

Dave: Are you using a TV or monitor in that Omega race cab? How did you know which wires need to be switched?
I might be extra careful and just have my TV repair guy do it.
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: Dav on December 25, 2002, 01:16:50 pm: I'm using a monitor but tv's are essentially the same. If you've never done it before it's probably best to get someone to do it. But there's probably some instructions if you search RGVAC.

Dave
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: OSCAR on December 26, 2002, 02:39:34 am: Perhaps Bob Roberts yoke flipping page will help?

http://www.dameon.net/BBBB/yoke.html
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: Thorn on January 10, 2003, 12:11:56 am: Looks like this is the info on reversing the monitor image if anyone is interested.

http://www.genao.com/datatech/monitor.html
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: Thorn on January 21, 2003, 11:53:58 pm: An update on my crazy mirror idea. I put together a mirror and a simulated monitor but I did not like the results very much. Too resrictive in viewing angles. I guess I need to be able to stand and sit on the ol' barstool while playing.

Flipping the screen by reversing the Yoke-Vertical wires is very easy. Unplug and plug in backwards (the one on the left)

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/sugg3d/Yoke2.JPG

Here's a picture of the mirror installed. The white paper is where the screen would have been. The masking tape is where the upper and lower edges of the bezel (or opening for glass) would have been.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/sugg3d/Mirror1b.JPG
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/sugg3d/Mirror2b.JPG

Oh well, looks like my wife gets an $18.00 mirror.
Title: Re:Crazy monitor-mirror ideas
Post by: Lilwolf on January 22, 2003, 08:46:10 am: Sorry it didn't work out.. I think it looks good here. It might look better if you had all black paint around the cab, and a bezel (so the monitor is the only light coming out). Then it your eyes (I would guess) would just adjust right away.