Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: AceTKK on April 05, 2005, 05:47:10 pm
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I'm in the market for a set of power tools which be used, among other things, to build my arcade cab. I'm looking for a router, jig-saw, drill and maybe a power sander. Now, keep in mind that I would use these tools very rarely for the most part. Do you think it's worth the extra $ to buy high-quality tools like DeWalt, Bosch, etc. for a weekend hobbyist? I'm not allergic to spending money, but I can get a whole Black & Decker set (jig-saw, drill, sander) for less than half of the cost of a Bosch jigsaw. What would you do if you were in my position?
thx,
-Ace-
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Go with the less expensive set.
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Really check the features in the set before you buy.
Alot of times they put the lower end equipment into the kits.
While there's no real need for high-end equipment for occasional use, there is alot of middle ground in the features vs. cost arena.
I've bought pretty much all my tools on an as-needed, single purchase basis, and don't regret a single purchase I've made.
I do have a Craftsman cordless drill that's getting ready to be replaced, but that is because the battery I need for it costs almost as much as an entire replacement drill (with two batteries) will.
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Also keep in mind that a particular company may make different levels of tools. Black and Decker makes DeWalt Tools (high end, construction grade equipment) along with obviously the Black and Decker Brand. (Snap-On makes Kobalt, Stanley Tools makes MAC tools and used to make Craftsman tools, etc)
For your use, at this time, Black and Decker is a better bet than DeWalt. No point spending cabbage on getting the best. Both will get the job done.
I think you will also get better value (cost v. performance) with corded equipment than cordless. You may find sales and special deals, but generally you will get better performance out of corded tools than the same amount of money spent on a cordless tool.
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Thx for your input everyone. My local Wal-Mart has the aforementioned Black & Decker kit (jigsaw, drill, sander) for $49.99. I'll probably start with this set and, if it's not up to par, take advantage of Wal-Mart's generous return policy. The set is corded, which I understand is the better way to go on cheap tools anyway.
-Ace-
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I'll probably start with this set and, if it's not up to par, take advantage of Wal-Mart's generous return policy.
Or when you get done? j/k
LOL
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Extra power is good. Cords on cheap tools ARE better... more power. A drill with lots of power is a must. I never thought much about it till I tried to build a deck with an underpowered drill... ughhh.
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I've tried buying the cheaper tools, and I've regretted it every time. With tools, you definately get what you pay for.
Paul
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Having recently done this I have to agree. I bought a Porter Cable Fixed base router that cost $99, not as functional as the cheaper plunge routers but oh man is this thing sweet!!
However I bought a cheap Black n Decker Drill and the keyless chuck on it absolutely sucks. I can hardly drill one hole without the bit coming loose. I should have spent more, probably on the bits too. :P
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Please do some research on the lesser tools before you spend! According to my Wife, my primary hobby is tool collecting. ;)(she is correct btw) Armed with that "expertise", I would like to recommend a forum that caters to frugal tool purchases:
www.bt3central.com
There is a section just for tools, and a "decent" search function. I frequent that forum as "dave40261" and you will not find a nicer group of guys to answer tool questions.
I personally do NOT recommend anything B&D. You can do much better for the same $$. Ryobi tools are decent for infrequent use, and in *some* cases Harbor Freight tools are surprisingly robust. The key is to research and ask questions on a forum like this one.
Good Luck.
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I purchased a Ryobi 18v cordless set consisting of a Drill, 6 1/2 inch circular saw, Miter saw, Saws-all, flashlight, dremmel, two batteries, a charger, and some other accessories from Home Depot and it works great. I've used them for all kinds of home repairs and projects. They are surprisingly powerful for cordless tools.
I have since purchased a corded regular sized circular saw for the times when the cordless one doesn't cut it (pun intended) and a corded router.
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this is really kinda a tough question because in some cases a cheap tool will work fine, but not in others.
if it's a tool that will be used a lot, like say a cordless drill. this is a tool that once you have it you will find yourself useing it all the time. and not just building projects in the garage. i'd recommend spending the exta $'s and getting a good one.
otoh, if it's a tool that's kinda one dimensional and will not get used much then getting a cheap one should be no big deal.
i've got a garage packed with tools and it's about half and half quality vs. cheapies and i have no regrets.
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In tools for the most part you get what you pay for. While in some situations "cheap" tools will work, they are not constructed very well and use inferior parts. The cheap tools are not built to be ran for any long periods of time. They are also usually not as accurate as the more expensive tools. Most companies do make various levels of tools, some they can make well, others not so good. Craftsman power tools are junk, do not buy any craftsman power tools. For jigsaws the Bosch and Hitachi are very good, Routers it all depends on if you want plunge or not. Porter Cable use to be good, not too sure about it now since they were bought by Black and Decker. Black and Decker now owns Delta, Porter Cable and Dewalt. For a corded drill you'd be hard to beat a milwaukee. Besides Craftsman The other Brand to stay away from is Panasonic. Harbor freight does have some good deals - but you really have to watch what you are buying because they do have some real garbage too.
Good luck, and the best option is to buy the best that you can at the begining.
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Jigsaw, Drill, Palm Sander, Random orbital sander - Go CHEAP. If you have a Menards home improvement store, they routinely (like every 3 months) have these items (except the random orbital) on sale for $15 with a $5 rebate = $10. Sometimes you can get them for as low as $8.49. Also check Harbor Freight you can get similar prices. The random orbital normally hits $20-$25 on sale at Menards. A RO sander is needed to more quickly eat away edges of particle board or MDF. A palm (non RO) works good for finishing off flat sides.
Router: Buy *good* quality. DO NOT BUY THE CHEAP CRAP at harbor frieght or off of ebay. They are utter trash. A router is a very precise instrument and is actually pretty deadly if they aren't assembled right. I have tried a couple cheap ones off of eBay, Harbor Frieght and Hominer Tools and they are almost too dangerous to use.... when they work. I wont go into all the problems I had with them, but suffice it to say, my fathers 1965-ish Sears router works hundreds of time better and is much more precise. Don't spend less than $50 on a router, but no need to spend more than $120 either. Shop around, and try them first.
By the way, DeWalt *IS* Black+Decker. B+D used to be a "high end" brand, but in the 70's when they started making home appliances (toasters, irons), and lowered their pricepoints, professional users balked at using "home crap" and started going with other brands like Makita, etc.. B+D then started putting out their same tools labeled under the DeWalt brand name. They're the same things, just with a different label.
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By the way, DeWalt *IS* Black+Decker. B+D used to be a "high end" brand, but in the 70's when they started making home appliances (toasters, irons), and lowered their pricepoints, professional users balked at using "home crap" and started going with other brands like Makita, etc.. B+D then started putting out their same tools labeled under the DeWalt brand name. They're the same things, just with a different label.
While I do agree that B&D makes Dewalt, just as many other tools come from similar makers, I cannot agree with the blanket statement of "same thing - different label".
The reason smart tool purchases are so difficult, is that many do not take the time to learn what makes a good tool good, and what the differences are between brands. If you take a B&D drill and Dewalt drill and disassemble them, you will find many differences. Smaller windings, plastic gears, less efficient cooling, plastic case parts at high impact points will be present in the B&D. Heavier windings, metal gears, better clutches, metal case parts, etc. in the Dewalt. Just because they come from one producer does not make them the same thing.
How can I justify this? Research. Wood, PWW, FWW and other woodworking magazines regularly compare tools and tool quality. Check their sites, read at the mag rack, subscribe. The forum I mentioned above has posts listing "real world" tool experiences and comparisons, using exact model numbers in some cases. Epinions has reviews (grains of salt needed...) and so on.
I have a wide variety of tools ranging from HF to Porter Cable, and all in between. I take seriously *any* tool purchase over $20 and carefully research before I buy. NO impulse tool buys are allowed. I chose bt3central because they are NOT a bunch of "tool snobs" who insist that more $$ = better tools. I have had fantastic results with my major tool purchases since using this philosophy, and I literally have $10,000+ in tools in my shop. (this encompasses car building/wood working/arcade stuff over a 15 year period) In all honesty, the 2 BEST tools I have are the internet, and patience.
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I've gone with cheaper tools on the whole - my AUD 39 (around USD 30 at present) GMC router is fantastic. The issue would be more with the operator, not the router ;) Having said this, having better quality bits makes it nicer to use, so I'd recommend the extra money go on bits.
It depends on what tools you want to use, IMO. A decent hand saw is worth the money, but I wouldn't go too crazy on a steel ruler or a hammer.
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My experience has been that Ryobi makes pretty pretty good "good quality at a low price" tools. You can definitely get better, but for the price range that they're in, they're usually right on.
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The best router hands down are porter bable. I've used many other ones and they are worth the price, I use them every day at work.
I wouldent reccomend buying a cheapo jigsaw, the blade dends to bend and your cuts look like crap. Buy a mikata, very good saw.
for drills, as long as its electric you can go cheap. If its a portable one, do not buy crap. The battery wil last like three days and stop charging properly. de-walt, makita, milwauke. all good.
sander, you can probaby go cheap. although, if you have a compressor, go with a pneumatic one. these kick any other sanders ass.
just try to consider amount of use compared to price. there is a direct correlation.
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That Black & Decker $50 set at Wal-mart is pretty awful. The Drill is SO INCREDIBLY WEAK as to be nearly useless for drilling through anything but drywall. You need a screwdriver to change blades in the jigsaw and you will strip the threads out of the piece that holds the blades within the first few uses making it essentially useless unless you know how to rethread. The sander is fine, though. Spend a little more and avoid those particular tools.
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Please do not buy a cheap jigsaw, you will pull your hair out using it. In curved cuts and some straight cuts the blade will bend and bow. It makes for an overall bad cut.
Routers are usually used pretty heavly so it pays to get a good model. The key is research - Some of the magazines that were pointed out earlier are good especially Fine Woodworking (best). Research each tool, on the internet Tool crib of the North now a part of Amazon.com has a lot of tools, and most of them have reviews too.
The other key is to buy quality tooling, wether it's blades, drills, or router bits. More expensive ones are manufactured better, use higher quality metal, and usually don't have as much runout.
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I used to say buy expensive ALWAYS..
but lately I've changed my tune. Buy cheap... and figure out what you use ALL the time and buy the best.
Sometimes you don't know what you really will use... and it can change year to year.
Miter saw is worth the extra cash imho. ESPECIALLY one with a site laser. VERY useful for fast cuts. Don't get one with all the weird angles and such (at least for your main miter saw) at the expense of anything else. you will cut 90 or 45 degrees 99% of the time.
Router is a GREAT thing.. You will use it for TONS of projects if you get a good one. Plunger is a must.
But a ton of other tools I use once a year... Not worth the extra money and works ok for when I do.
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Sometimes it "pays" to buy cheap to figure out what you want, and then if it is something you use frequently then upgrade it latter.
Other times it doesn't. The cheap tool performs very poorly, breaks, doesn't finish the job, or just creates more hassle then its worth.
Some will say, oh I can just return it for another one or it has X-amount of warranty. Sure you do, but all of that takes time. What good is the warranty if it breaks everytime you use it?
Plunge routers are nice but are not a necessity. For a first router a fixed base like the pc 690 is a good choice. From there you can expand into a plunge router. Routers are like clamps you can never have too many, I think I have 4 of them now.