Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: LordKaosNY on March 21, 2005, 07:29:49 pm
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I've read a few posts where people recommend against using an LCD with a Mame machine because some games run at funky resolutions. Has anyone tried it? Were you happy with the results?
I'm considering using one in a cocktail cabinet because it would be so much easier to mount than a CRT.
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I use a lcd screen in my cab , you dont need to use the avga card ,all you need is a ipac for the controles and your set .its much less work and spending less money. my lcd screen looks great on all games.
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Test it with MAME first. I was trying to use a cheap 15" LCD for my initial planning phase, and it choked on a lot of the vector games especially.
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I have a Planar 17.5" LCD in my cab and have had no problems. Some people warn about it being hard to see emulated vector games like Star Wars. I think this is more of a problem with laptops and older LCD monitors. The newer LCD monitors are bigger and brighter.
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I put a 17" tft into my cab last night - it was really only intended as a makeshift measure (the existing monitor is dead) - but I was pleasantly surprised with the results; it was lovely and bright, and had no ghosting whatsoever (12ms refresh monitor). I think I'm going to leave it that way.
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Before putting an LCD in a cocktail make sure it can be properly viewed at that angle. Because some LCDs will look like total UPDOG at that kind of angle.
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good call on the viewing angles.
Also, the best way to setup a LCD for looks is NOT how you normally would configure a PC monitor.
I hear the best way is to force the native resolution of the monitor always... Then use hwstretching or D3D. But anything else will make bad corners / stair stepping.
But like everyone is saying here. Test it first. Get it running and make sure its how you like it. Also, make sure to add real glass over it for protection.
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So far it sounds as if most people have had positive results using an LCD. I'm not sure how fast my LCD refreshes (it's about 18 months old) but I'm going to find out before I attempt anything. I also agree that's it's probably best to test it with the games I plan on playing the most. They're mostly 80's classics such as Ms. Pacman, Donkey Kong, Frogger, etc... but I would also like to use it with Street Fighter II and Mortal Combat.
Anyone else using an LCD, especially in a cocktail cabinet?
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Lay it flat on a table and try a couple games on it. If it looks good, it looks good.
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I was using my Laptop's LCD for a few months before it broke. :'( It too looked great even with vector games and such. I honestly can't even think of a game that didn't look good (aside from the obvious fact that the resolution of it was higher than a real arcade monitor and therefore more jagged).
It did have a pretty horable viewing angle though. It deffinitly wouldn't have worked in a cocktail position. When I was playing games on it, I would have a person to the left and right of me and they'd both have to be like <1
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All the LCD's I've looked at recently had pretty good side-viewing angles but get bad very quickly when they're not very close to level in relation to your eyes. Your best bet in a cocktail would be a vertical orientation so both players (assuming one on each end). If it's a side-by-side cocktail you could either go vertical or angle it toward the playing side.
Make sure you try a mockup to test angles out before you design and build.
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I've been using a 17" LCD for MAME purposes for a little while now.
It's a very basic Acer 1714 panel with a 14ms response time, and a 1280x1024 native resolution.
I use the following lines in my Mame.ini file:
[snip]
### Windows video options ###
autoframeskip 0
frameskip 0
waitvsync 0
triplebuffer 0
window 0
ddraw 1
direct3d 1
hwstretch 1
# screen <NULL> (not set)
cleanstretch auto
resolution 1280x1024
refresh 60
scanlines 0
switchres 1
switchbpp 1
maximize 1
keepaspect 1
matchrefresh 0
syncrefresh 0
throttle 1
full_screen_brightness 0.000000
frames_to_run 0
effect none
screen_aspect 4:3
### Windows Direct3D 2D video options ###
zoom 2
d3dtexmanage 1
d3dfilter 4
d3dfeedback 0
d3dscan 50
d3deffectrotate 1
d3dprescale auto
d3deffect none
# d3dcustom <NULL> (not set)
# d3dexpert <NULL> (not set)
[snip]
I know it is not arcade authentic...but for me, it works out very well - I run Windows XP in 1280x1024 @60Hz, and run MameWah with a 1280x1024 @60Hz skin...I don't have to make any monitor adjustments at all.
It will be the perfect solution for my bartop cabinet that I am planning to build. The viewing angles, in both the horizontal and vertical planes, aren't too bad - but as recommended previously...if you are planning on using it in a cocktail cabinet...check the angles before construction, to avoid possible disappointment later on.
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paige whats UPDOG
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I was looking through the FAQ and thought of your post.
...Not that you asked but might be useful.
http://www.mame.net/mamefaq.html#h14
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paige whats UPDOG
Nothing much dawg, what's up with you!
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Coasternuts, I checked out that FAQ but I believe its wrong when it says that an LCD's native resolution is the highest resolution it supports. I'm pretty sure my IBM LCD came with a note saying that its native resolution is 800x600 but I can use resolutions of 1024x768 and higher without a problem.
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paige whats UPDOG
Nothing much dawg, what's up with you!
you jerk... you made me spit water on my laptop!! :P
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The point is you want to force it to be the native resolution.
why?
your video card is already shinking it when your running 1024x768 down to 800x600... you don't want to stretch a 320x240 > 1024x768 to then shrink it down to 800x600....
You want to make sure only one stretch / shrink happens if possible.
CRTs are slightly different the way they handle different resolutions. LCDs ALWAYS display their native resolutions...
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The point is you want to force it to be the native resolution.
why?
your video card is already shinking it when your running 1024x768 down to 800x600... you don't want to stretch a 320x240 > 1024x768 to then shrink it down to 800x600....
You want to make sure only one stretch / shrink happens if possible.
CRTs are slightly different the way they handle different resolutions.
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I never heard of a problem with LCD monitors..
I guess My friend lucked out
he bought a LCD when they first came out. poor sap paid over a grand for a 15" monitor
I tossed Mame on his PC and we have played it for a few years now.
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http://rototron.info/
This beauty sports a Planer LCD. Might want to e-mail him and find out what he thinks of them. However, the only way to know if you'll like it is to test it out with your own eyes before you install it permenantly.
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http://rototron.info/
This beauty sports a Planer LCD. Might want to e-mail him and find out what he thinks of them. However, the only way to know if you'll like it is to test it out with your own eyes before you install it permenantly.
That is a great cabinet but the monitor is way too small. Sure a 17" LCD is the size of a 19" computer monitor, but you need a 19"+ LCD to be the same size as a standard 19" arcade monitor (like LCDs, arcade monitor sizes are the REAL sizes, while on computer monitors in general they are 1.6" smaller).
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1UP has a point.
You SHOULDNT be looking at LCDs by default. I would only use one if I already had one... .Or it would be the only one that would fit in my cabinet design.
you will never get the output of a true arcade monitor. And you can get a 19" on ebay for 200 bucks shipped to your door new. Then an arcade VGA and your golden... best case senerio every time (but vectors). Probably cheaper... larger... allows you to use real arcade bezels.. better quality... all around better.
but if you don't already have a LCD you plan on using.... Consider this only if your cabinet design requires it... (super small counter top... or maybe a wall arcade (might be cool)... or maybe a cocktail table that fits on a real one... you get the drift).
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LCD monitors are great DESKTOP monitors but they are only so-so for gaming, they looks awesome at their native res, but most of them have a native res that is too high for classic gaming.
You really shouldn't have a problem mounting a tube monitor in a cocktail, my project cocktail has a 27" monitor in it (and it was originally a 19" machine).
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I'm getting excited about LCD's future.
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Just curious if anyone has tried a lcd monitor with the daphne emultor? I'm thinking of making a deditcated cabinet for the laser disc games and thought about an lcd monitor. I figure it would be ok with dragon's lair but not to sure how it will be with m.a.c.h.3 when it becomes available.
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I call a toast to carbon displays! (flat panel CRT monitors) which are still currently in the development stages and should be out sometime this decade!
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Daphne runs great on an LCD. I'm about 70% complete with my cabinet. As a result I get my emulation fix on my current home computer which runs a 17 inch Dell LCD.
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I'm getting excited about LCD's future. Pixel response times are getting very fast (they are now down to 4ms), viewing angles of 170 or more, outstanding brightness and contrast, and the edges are getting smaller and smaller. Take this 40" Samsung 403TN for example:
(http://www.physorg.com/newman/gfx/news/syncmaster.jpg)
(1280 x 768, brightness of 500cd/m2, 600:1 contrast ratio, 8ms response time).
Still fixed resolution. Fixed res sucks.
LCD's are taking over the Home Audio/Video world too. Plasmas are now losing the war, even Sony stopped making plasmas. But I don't want to get into a plasma vs LCD tangent.
LCDs are taking over the small section of the AV market that plasma had. Because they're cheaper, not because the image is superior.
For image quality, there's no contest.
CRT is still the sharpest when analog input(conventional TV) or multiple resolutions(digital TV, PC gaming) comes into play, and has the best color reproduction and contrast ratio in all situations.
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Test it with MAME first. I was trying to use a cheap 15" LCD for my initial planning phase, and it choked on a lot of the vector games especially.
So here I am, holy crap, 9 years later, looking for 1600 x 1200, 21.3" LCDs to replace my aging 19" computer monitor. Wish me luck.
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I wish you luck, Unless of course you are in the UK when I can offer you exactly what you are looking for, A Syncmaster 213T
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My ab has a 19" LCD monitor, which is what it came with when I originally bought it (pre-made cab).
It's a Dell TN panel mounted vertically, and the viewing angle off to the left is pretty poor. Looks fine when you're right in front of it or off to the right, so the machine is actually right next to a wall to prevent you moving too far over ::) But with the HLSL shader effects emulating a CRT it looks pretty good.
I've got a replacement monitor lined up for when I eventually get around to replacing it, which is a 20" HP IPS monitor. Trouble is it's bigger than the old one, so it's not a direct replacement. I'm reluctant to pull something apart if it's working well enough in normal use.
When going for LCDs the best panels are probably IPS because of the viewing angle, availability and price. The problem is it's getting almost impossible to get 5:4 or 4:3 IPS monitors (at least at a reasonable price), so you may end up having to use a wide-screen monitor and blanking off the extra bits if you want an original arcade aspect ratio.
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Look for Dell Ultrasharp 2007FP monitors. They are great monitors and they are all over the place for well under a hundred. True 4:3 aspect ratio, IPS panel monitors.
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If you really want MAME games to look great on your LCD I suggest picking up this nifty product:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,129344.0.html (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,129344.0.html)
D
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I use lcd monitors when I am installing my software or updating it and no problems here, however I still prefer old ardade monitors for the real feel.... :afro:
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paige whats UPDOG
Nothing much dawg, what's up with you!
:duckhunt
Look for Dell Ultrasharp 2007FP monitors. They are great monitors and they are all over the place for well under a hundred. True 4:3 aspect ratio, IPS panel monitors.
Word. I bought one for a project. Good monitor. Lots of them around so if you ever replace it (buy a spare in advance) then it will fit right in. And of course 4:3 (",)
Oh, and good on you guys for saving the planet by recycling 9 year old threads :D
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If you really want MAME games to look great on your LCD I suggest picking up this nifty product:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,129344.0.html (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,129344.0.html)
D
Yep, I picked up one of these too.. They are great and make a huge difference.
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I use a lcd screen in my cab , you dont need to use the avga card ,all you need is a ipac for the controles and your set .its much less work and spending less money. my lcd screen looks great on all games.
looks good all ya have to do is find a good scanline effect.png to apply on mame ini.
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paige whats UPDOG
Nothing much dawg, what's up with you!
I perked up when I saw Paige walk that one out onto the 18th tee at Augusta, and my day was truly lifted when Pieman teed it up and then Paige drove it 320 yards.
Well played, sir.
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I was planning to go with a 21" 16:10 low res (1024x768) lcd panel but have also been looking at the plethera of 20-27" crt TV's at the thrift shops here for <25".
a decased 25" would fit perfectly in my old berzerk cab.
Too bad most of the 25's i've found only have antenna in.
yet the 20" have s-video.
go figure.
It's a tough decision.