I just read the info in the Software forum post and was about to come post something here.
This sounds crazy.
Yeah. This ain't happening... it's just Mr. Ultracade thinking he had a GREAT idea.
The problem is going to be that the name and logo predate his claim by years...
...of course, that's if anyone tries to fight it.
Then someone should contact the trademark organization to mention them to look at mame.net
The trademark office will look into the claim, and since if you look up MAME on the net you get eleventeenjillion matches they'll find that that logo is already way in use.
That doesn't put me at ease considering how many ridiculous and "obvious" patents have been GRANTED in recent years.
The trademark office will look into the claim, and since if you look up MAME on the net you get eleventeenjillion matches they'll find that that logo is already way in use.
That doesn't put me at ease considering how many ridiculous and "obvious" patents have been GRANTED in recent years.
Do I have to be a U.S. citizen to apply?
No. However, if you do not reside in the United States, you may appoint a "domestic representative" as part of the application process (see below).
Can I assume "Patent Doc" is a lawyer?
On contacting the attorney, would it be helpful for him to recieve multiple emails / notifications regarding the MAME logo and name?
February 21, 2005
Like most things that are spread by rumor, the facts about me, UltraCade Technologies, and the M.A.M.E.
emulation system are quite distorted. I will try and educate anyone who cares to listen about the reality of our
marketplace and what we are doing and what we are not. Simply put, we are making an effort to stamp out the
commercial sales of M.A.M.E. based systems that advertise the ability to play thousands of games while relying on
the customer to obtain the ROMs which can not legally be obtained. What we are not doing is trying to claim
ownership of the M.A.M.E. open source emulator or sue its authors. We are concerned about the commercial
marketplace, and not the readers of the many M.A.M.E. user groups and forums.
I have been working on emulation technology since the mid 80
I just tried it and his extremely annoying flash was working fine, but I didn't find the letters.
Paul
4.) He has been trying to enforce it already, on relatively innocent bystanders
His comments look 3/4 reasonable. Looks like he just wants "apples for apples" comparison when advertising cabs for sale.Then what he should be doing is taking action against vendors of illegal roms that he owns the copyright or distribution rights to. This doesn't give him a licence to steal someone elses IP because he's making money from the same idea.
I really don't see how it could be worth the expense to attempt to enforce it and anything like this that attracts attention to the whole MAME hobby/business is probably not a good thing.
Thanks for posting the letters, I still don't see the link on his page.
His argument does sound plausible when he states it, but it doesn't seem to hold up well.
First of all, no matter what he wants to accomplish, he has no right to try to trademark someone elses work.
Second, reread emdkays post a few posts back. Foley contacted him trying to get royalties, not trying to stop the spread of "MAME piracy". Emdkay doesn't even do what Foley complains about in his letter. Emdkay offers an artwork printing service to the hobbyists. According to Foley's letter, this is not who he is trying to go after.
Paul
We have no desire to use the M.A.M.E. name or logos; we simply wish to find ways to prevent illegal distribution of classic arcade games.
According to a post by Kevin Steele on alt.games.mame, Foley is already threatening eBay auctions which mention MAME (e.g. Dream Ultimates cabinet kits), and he plans to sue MAMEdev (and Razoola?) over the CPS-2 XOR scheme. Make of that what you will.
... since he OBVIOUSLY didn't use MAME as the basis of Ultracade.
This is from R. Belmont:
Mame.Net Forum Link (http://ttp://www.mame.net/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showpost.pl?Board=mamegeneral&Number=168488&page=0&view=expanded&mode=threaded&sb=7#Post168488)QuoteAccording to a post by Kevin Steele on alt.games.mame, Foley is already threatening eBay auctions which mention MAME (e.g. Dream Ultimates cabinet kits), and he plans to sue MAMEdev (and Razoola?) over the CPS-2 XOR scheme. Make of that what you will.
I don't have access to that group through either of my NSPs, so I can't verify Belmont's source.
APf
We will be happy to cancel our application and work with the M.A.M.E. team to assign it to its rightful owners; however we do want to prevent it from being awarded to someone that intends to use it commercially.
Well hes got a new letter out.
http://www.ultracade.com/openoffer.pdf
He will withdraw the application if mame helps him to stop commercial use of mame.
I don't like how hes doing it...
To:
Remember to send a certified letter as well. Email can be "lost."
Remember to send a certified letter as well.
Well, despite all of the white noise surrounding this topic, one thing has been made perfectly clear. I think it would be wise to "shout from the rooftops" that no one should do business with such an unethical person.
You don
Received this response from him this afternoon after I raised a few questions about them already trying to bully vendors who had no links to the distribution or promotion of illegal roms in complete contradiction of his apparent love for the community.QuoteYou don
QuoteYou don
"Please contact me immeadiately to discuss your unlicensed use of our registrered trademarks. I would much rather come to a licensing agreement than to shut you down, but we must discuss immeadiately or we will have to pursue legal matters."The funny thing is it isn't a registered trademark yet!
WOW.... go away for a weekend with no Internet access and look what happens.
QuoteYou don
WOW.... go away for a weekend with no Internet access and look what happens.
"I am available to work with the community to ensure that this happens, and to help get more games made available to the community at a reasonable price."-ultracade website
Have you guys seen how much he charges for games.
If we did not file this mark, someone else could have and then claimed it.
Well, despite all of the white noise surrounding this topic, one thing has been made perfectly clear. I think it would be wise to "shout from the rooftops" that no one should do business with such an unethical person. He made his gambit, and it clearly came back to strike him in the backside. Perhaps it is time to make ours...
APf
Well, despite all of the white noise surrounding this topic, one thing has been made perfectly clear. I think it would be wise to "shout from the rooftops" that no one should do business with such an unethical person. He made his gambit, and it clearly came back to strike him in the backside. Perhaps it is time to make ours...
APf
Let got the Ultracade Cabinets and MAME it :)
Is it really wrong to advertise a cab that says it can play 4000 games, when it really can legally?
Is it really wrong to advertise a cab that says it can play 4000 games, when it really can legally?
Just to play devils' advocate, his point is that you can't do it legally. To play 4,000 games you would have to break the law. While I don't agree with his actions, I think the point is valid.
This guy is insane, and I like the comparison of an Ipod and a MAME cab. Is it really wrong to advertise a cab that says it can play 4000 games, when it really can legally? What if you personally own a bunch of boards of various games? Don't ya legally own the game and can use it comercially or otherwise in a cab you built? And if this guy is just trying to stamp out piratcy of games, then why does he keep hitting up printers of marquees for cash? This guy is what we call a "jag-off" here in Chicago and is obviously talking out of his --I'm attempting to get by the auto-censor and should be beaten after I re-read the rules--.
Well, I sent the following email to the trademark office. I suggest others do the same ...
There is a correct way to bring such things to the attention of the Trademark Office, and this is not it.
The constructive next step is to monitor the status of the application, and when it gets "published for opposition" then file an opposition [uspto.gov].
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/tac/tmep/1500.htm#_Toc536249467
One convenient way to monitor the status of a pending US trademark application is by means of free software called Feathers [patents.com].
http://www.patents.com/feathers/
David Foley successfully lobbied Ebay to shutdown my Cocktail arcade kit auctions last night. He said I was using illegally using MAME as a keyword. Here
Is it really wrong to advertise a cab that says it can play 4000 games, when it really can legally?
Just to play devils' advocate, his point is that you can't do it legally. To play 4,000 games you would have to break the law. While I don't agree with his actions, I think the point is valid.
MAME isn't legal, and never will be. This is very similar to when Napster was shut down.
...
but as long as you are selling a machine with an engine that has no legal path to use, we will object.
His argument is that StarROMs doesn't count because you can't transfer the license for ROMs purchased from StarROMs, so you can't sell a cabinet with StarROMs ROMs on it.
His argument is that StarROMs doesn't count because you can't transfer the license for ROMs purchased from StarROMs, so you can't sell a cabinet with StarROMs ROMs on it.
He also cited that it was similar to the situation with Napster but the two situations are very different.
mame.net WHOIS info
Domain Name: MAME.NET
Thanks again for responding.
I am not trying to be deliberately pedantic but there has already been one member of our community who has been approached by you (or your company) whom you demanded a royalty from for his distribution of MAME branded artwork. There are no shortage of hobbiests who charge for their skills and services in providing artwork and hardware to other hobbiests. This would seem to run contrary to your wish to simply put vendors who 'advertise machines with thousands of roms' out of business.
You have to understand that there are thousands of us dedicated to this hobby and regardless of your stated ambition the fact remains that once in control of the MAME name and logo you could then decide to claim royalties or shut down anyone using the software and or logo for any reason. Indeed judging by the actions demonstrated so far this would seem to be your intention.
I would be far more inclined to actively seek dialogue with the various people involved with the continued development and distribution of MAME and work in partnership with them and if necessary actively assist them in obtaining the relevant trademark.
Trying to trademark someone elses work particularly when this is something they have provided freely simply to promote your own business is not going to be a winning strategy even if your intentions are honest.
Regards,
CJ
QuoteThere is a correct way to bring such things to the attention of the Trademark Office, and this is not it.
The constructive next step is to monitor the status of the application, and when it gets "published for opposition" then file an opposition [uspto.gov].
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/tac/tmep/1500.htm#_Toc536249467
One convenient way to monitor the status of a pending US trademark application is by means of free software called Feathers [patents.com].
http://www.patents.com/feathers/
Thats from slashdot. Nicola needs to get his <auto-censored> together. BTW, to recap:
A little disturbing that there still appears to have been no official response from any of the MAME team or vendors (mamemarquees, ultimarc etc) with an interest in maintaining the status quo.
Looks like the filing fee is $75 for a small entity, or $300 regular.
Guess he went after DreamArcades as well.
Link (http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=25261&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1&new=1108953856)
Been thinking some more on this.
February 21, 2005
An open offer to the M.A.M.E. community.
Our recent actions to protect our products have met with a lot of controversy. Many
people have been quick to judge and make accusations about what we are attempting to
do, and what we have already done. It is my understanding that the spirit of the
M.A.M.E. community is
I'm not sure if you guys saw this second letter posted on the Ultracade site
..looks like he's retracting
http://www.ultracade.com/openoffer.pdfQuoteFebruary 21, 2005
An open offer to the M.A.M.E. community.
Our recent actions to protect our products have met with a lot of controversy. Many
people have been quick to judge and make accusations about what we are attempting to
do, and what we have already done. It is my understanding that the spirit of the
M.A.M.E. community is
As it stands though he may have wreaked irreperable damage to his business by repeatedly biting the hand that feeds him.But we don't feed him. Almost by definition, anyone frequenting Build Your Own Arcade Controls or using MAME isn't in the market for an Ultracade. He claims not to use MAME in Ultracade itself. So anyone making MAME marquees, arcade controls, cabinet plans, frontends, or anbything in support of a build-your-own solution is in competition with him.
He shuts down a company that sells MAME machines with *legal* roms from STARroms?
And then he's greedy enough to ask for *royalties* from places printing the MAME logo?
On top of that he tries to register the MAME trademark which clearly isn't his.
..
Does this guy work for SCO?
Posted by: SirPoonga Posted on: Today at 01:09:52 PM
Insert Quote
Quote from: pcolson on Today at 01:05:41 PM
Been thinking some more on this. Companies selling MAME cabinets do not compete with Ultracade. At All! Ultracade is sold for commercial use. MAME cabs are sold for home use.
His new line, Arcade Legends, is a new competitor to the already established home MAME cab market. Dream Arcades should be able to collect damages. Foley misrepresented his status as registered trademark owner. That can't be legal.
Paul
You may want to reword what you said.
Quote
Companies selling MAME cabinets do not compete with Ultracade. Ultracade is sold for commercial use. MAME cabs are sold for home use.
....This caused ebay to shut down an auction(s?) of an established direct competitor.
contradictions. It still doesn't mean it isn't wrong.
This guy is probobly next in line for harrassment.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20516&item=4358404257&rd=1
This guy is probobly next in line for harrassment.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20516&item=4358404257&rd=1
How many people work at Ultracade??? I mean is it a big company or it just Dave and a couple of buddy's?
And now that I think about it how can they get stuff pulled off ebay anyways? does that mean if I try selling my Gamecube Nintendo can get the auction pulled off?Actually Dell computers no longer allows their products to be sold on eBay as NEW with Warranty. Go to Fatwallet.com and read the Online Auction forum and see how many eBay seller accounts have been permanently suspended by Dell for simply reselling a new Dell computer.
"Suffice to say, everyone who works on MAME is well aware of the attempted theft of our name and logo. Appropriate, measured steps are being taken to solve this issue. This is not something that is going to be helped by a lot of public hand-wringing by those involved with MAME, so don't expect a lot of public comments on the matter. Just trust that it's being taken care of, and if help is needed, it will be asked."
From the man himself, Aaron Giles.
http://aarongiles.com/
"Suffice to say, everyone who works on MAME is well aware of the attempted theft of our name and logo. Appropriate, measured steps are being taken to solve this issue. This is not something that is going to be helped by a lot of public hand-wringing by those involved with MAME, so don't expect a lot of public comments on the matter. Just trust that it's being taken care of, and if help is needed, it will be asked."
From the man himself, Aaron Giles.
http://aarongiles.com/
BTW, this is just one more in the long list of obstacles I've encountered on my long road to market legal cabinets. I've sorted out all the other issues holding me back, and now this? :(I know that there are lots of opinions on this topic and few lawyers with real answers (and IANAL)...but let's assume for a minute that he does get a TM for MAME (a big "IF" in my opinion). How does that really impact products such as yours 1up? Your cabs won't say "MAME" anywhere on them, right? If your product doesn't use the name or logo, then you have no need to license anything from Foley. If you mention "MAME" on your website as part of your literature, then as long as you provide the proper attributions (e.g. TM - property of so-and-so) you should be alright. In this very peculiar case, he doesn't own the rights to MAME, only the "brand". But competitors use the brand names of their competition all the time in adds and literature -- they just provide proper attribution.
Contrary to this guy's assertions, it is possible to license packages of StarRoms in the end-user's name at the time of sale. I have verified this personally with the StarRoms sales team.
So my cabs will feature legally obtained, properly licensed games ONLY, and the user is required to obtain and install MAME themselves to comply with the wishes of the MAMEdevs. Yet I may be held back by this stupid trademark from even mentioning Mame on my site. In the words of Q*bert, @&^*%!!!
Well, who here uses their cabinet for commercial use or plans to sell it. Personally, I dont. Its not like if I use MAME hes going to come to my house and rip my marquee off! I still think this is wrong though, just not as badly as yous.
BTW, this is just one more in the long list of obstacles I've encountered on my long road to market legal cabinets. I've sorted out all the other issues holding me back, and now this? :(
Contrary to this guy's assertions, it is possible to license packages of StarRoms in the end-user's name at the time of sale. I have verified this personally with the StarRoms sales team.
So my cabs will feature legally obtained, properly licensed games ONLY, and the user is required to obtain and install MAME themselves to comply with the wishes of the MAMEdevs. Yet I may be held back by this stupid trademark from even mentioning Mame on my site. In the words of Q*bert, @&^*%!!!
After reading his letters and some of the other posts, I find this whole thing bizarre. There are two things I don't understand.I agree with you Pete. I just went out to Sun's website and found the following quote within 30 seconds:
Supposing he gets the trademark, couldn't makers of other cabs get around this by:
A) Not mentioning the MAME software at all and instead simply state that it can play thousands of arcade games?
Or,
B) Simply mention that it can run the MAME software, but include a standard disclaimer (MAME is trademarked by yada-yada-yada)?
It seems to me that the only people this would affect are people who use the MAME logo in any great capacity. It's hardly going to stamp out piracy.
He is laying claim to MAME itself. Anything that has to do with MAME (artwork) would come with the package.Couldn't he technically steal mame and sell it with his products.
It is likely just him and a few buddies. The address for the company is local for me, I might drive by it tomorrow on my way home from work, just to get an idea of size.
-Goz
http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=76627578+&action=Request+StatusMAME is a software application. He is filing for a trademark. You cannot "lay claim" to a software package with a trademark. If he were trying to claim MAME itself, he would have to do that through a patent, at which point he would be susceptible to a claim of prior art.
He is laying claim to MAME itself. Anything that has to do with MAME (artwork) would come with the package.
He is laying claim to MAME itself. Anything that has to do with MAME (artwork) would come with the package.Couldn't he technically steal mame and sell it with his products.
http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=76627578+&action=Request+Status
He is laying claim to MAME itself.
Worse still, to establish a common law mark, you must use it in commerce
Supposing he does get the MAME trademark, what would be the alternative?
OK
I'm almost finished with my spewing on trademarks.
Well, I'm not taking any chances...
(http://retroblast.com/images/secondary%20template_r1_c1.jpg)
Kevin Steele(tm)[/sup]
My new trademark...
"Mr. Ultracade (TM)"
Let's see how he likes that!
Ahem...
My heart is at ease knowing that the MAMEteam knows about this and is going to challenge it. There is no way Mr. Ultracade (TM) can beat that.
So now what is the best way to get the word out on Ultracade (besides what he has done to himself ;))? Can we start a "ribbon" campaign with a shredded logo? Start calling it Ultracon? How do those farse sites get away with making fun of things? We really should keep the newcomers away from his product.
Has anyone applied for ultracade & had his ebay auctions pulled? Just wondering... :angel: I'd like to see how his distributors are taking all of this.
Current Status: Newly filed application, not yet assigned to an examining attorney.
Date of Status: 2005-01-28
Filing Date: 2005-01-11
Transformed into a National Application: No
Well, I'm not taking any chances...
(http://retroblast.com/images/secondary%20template_r1_c1.jpg)
Kevin Steele(tm)[/sup]
This reminds me. There are 20 some ultracade auctions on ebay right now.HEY!! You are RIGHT!!! (http://search-desc.ebay.com/ultracade_W0QQsofocusZbsQQsbrftogZ1QQsojsZ1QQfromZR10QQcatrefZC6QQftsZ2QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQsadisZ200QQfsopZ1QQfsooZ1QQcoactionZcompareQQcopagenumZ1QQcoentrypageZsearch)
How would this effect dave...these machines are already sold to distributers...?This reminds me. There are 20 some ultracade auctions on ebay right now.HEY!! You are RIGHT!!! (http://search-desc.ebay.com/ultracade_W0QQsofocusZbsQQsbrftogZ1QQsojsZ1QQfromZR10QQcatrefZC6QQftsZ2QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQsadisZ200QQfsopZ1QQfsooZ1QQcoactionZcompareQQcopagenumZ1QQcoentrypageZsearch)
That would be so sad if people started doing "Buy It Now" on all of the Ultracades with no intent to actually buy ;D
You can guarantee that anyone new who does a search is going to come across this, or similar postings on other newsgroups all showing disgust at Mr Ultracade
In the completely bizarre scenario where they actually lost use of the name:
Well, I'm not taking any chances...
(http://retroblast.com/images/secondary%20template_r1_c1.jpg)
Kevin Steele(tm)[/sup]
I know you're joking but Billy Joel registered his name as a trademark in the '80s.
Go HERE (http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=searchss&state=t0q2dk.1.1) and try searching for "billy joel".
I have to congradulate you all. We kept this post pretty civil. Didn;t have to lock it, yet.
I think right now everything has been said and we just need to wait to see what the next action is.
I just don't like the idea of sabatoging a guy's interests without all the facts. I personally think email and letters to him stating your opinion as well as the other legal notices discussed here are reasonable. Hate-mail and other harassment are not IMHO.
How would this effect dave...these machines are already sold to distributers...?This reminds me. There are 20 some ultracade auctions on ebay right now.HEY!! You are RIGHT!!! (http://search-desc.ebay.com/ultracade_W0QQsofocusZbsQQsbrftogZ1QQsojsZ1QQfromZR10QQcatrefZC6QQftsZ2QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQsadisZ200QQfsopZ1QQfsooZ1QQcoactionZcompareQQcopagenumZ1QQcoentrypageZsearch)
That would be so sad if people started doing "Buy It Now" on all of the Ultracades with no intent to actually buy ;D
QuoteYou can guarantee that anyone new who does a search is going to come across this, or similar postings on other newsgroups all showing disgust at Mr Ultracade
[url=http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,32339.0.html] [img]http://img217.exs.cx/img217/5991/ultra0gk.jpg[/img][/url]
[email=david.foley@ultracade.com][img]http://img183.exs.cx/img183/6914/foley6iz.jpg[/img][/email]
If someone wanted to create a page that pointed out this issue and have it be the top listing in say google, it should be able to be done using META tags. For instance if you google Ultracade the #1 one page has these defined:
<meta name=keywords
content="ultracade,UltraCade,ultracade technology,ultracade technologies,video game,video games,coin-operated video games,coin-op video games, video arcade games,ArcadePC,MAME,MAME32,multi game,multi-game,Capcom,Hanaho,Nintendo,Atari,MAME games,MAME ROMS">
If I'm not mistaken this is probably good enough to hit the top 1 or 2 in google. Just add a blatant page title that gets attention.
-Goz
<voice of reason>
I would refrain from any malicious acts on him personally, his business, or other interests.
I admit I didn't read all 240+ prior posts here but I did read the "letter" Mr. Foley placed on his site.
I admit I didn't read all 240+ prior posts here but I did read the "letter" Mr. Foley placed on his site. He clearly states he will withdraw the application for trademark or have it written over to the MAME creators if they step forward. So, how can we get them to step forward and end this ridiculousness?
If someone wanted to create a page that pointed out this issue and have it be the top listing in say google, it should be able to be done using META tags. For instance if you google Ultracade the #1 one page has these defined:
<meta name=keywords
content="ultracade,UltraCade,ultracade technology,ultracade technologies,video game,video games,coin-operated video games,coin-op video games, video arcade games,ArcadePC,MAME,MAME32,multi game,multi-game,Capcom,Hanaho,Nintendo,Atari,MAME games,MAME ROMS">
If I'm not mistaken this is probably good enough to hit the top 1 or 2 in google. Just add a blatant page title that gets attention.
-Goz
Nope.
I've also been contacted by this hack requesting that I pay royalties to use a trademark that isn't his, nor has it even been approved yet.
UltraCade Licenses Design to Tsunami
UltraCade Technologies today announced the completion of a licensing deal with Tsunami Visual.
The deal concerns the use of design patent D428,884
So let's create a site that tells the truth about this trademeark theft, then everyone on the board with a web page could link to it. We should be able to get a few hundered pages linking to it without much problem.
Or, we could all just link to this thread!
LOL!
If someone would care to write up an article about this (I'm not much of a write myself) I'll be happy to host it on my website and we can all link to it.
-S
I still think its funny that Ultracade products are being sold through Happs.
Anyhow, to the people that think the MAME devs should "step forward", I ask: Why?
LOL! You sure got that right Stingray. ;) You type like I do.
If someone would care to write up an article about this (I'm not much of a write myself) I'll be happy to host it on my website and we can all link to it.
-S
Anyone click on the ultracade google ad that pops up once and awhile.
Anyone click on the ultracade google ad that pops up once and awhile.
Hey, I wonder if Mr. Ultracade (TM) (and Digital Leisure) will go after Daphne next?
Probably not, since the name isn't as marketable as that of MAME.
I also think this brings up the point that we need a way to obtain legal roms. If only starroms had more vendors than Atari and Atari.
Here's a couple more he's tring for.
Multicade s/n 76629621
http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=76629621
Arcade Legends s/n 76611855
http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=76611855
I changed the links to the status pages, hopefully these wont expire. Serial numbers added in case they do (Thanks for letting me know they expired emdkay). I found them searching for "Lee Hagelshaw" in the boolean search.
Paul
Here's a couple more he's tring for.
Multicade s/n 76629621
http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=76629621
Arcade Legends s/n 76611855
http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=76611855
I changed the links to the status pages, hopefully these wont expire.
edit/
Anyone that wants to use the banner below can. I'd love to see that thing propagated around the net.
Quote from: SirPoonga on Yesterday at 06:08:28 PM
Quote from: pcolson on February 21, 2005, 01:30:34 AM
Here's a couple more he's tring for.
Multicade s/n 76629621
http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=76629621
Arcade Legends s/n 76611855
http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=76611855
I changed the links to the status pages, hopefully these wont expire. Serial numbers added in case they do (Thanks for letting me know they expired emdkay). I found them searching for "Lee Hagelshaw" in the boolean search.
Paul
Go look at what ultracade sells....
edit/
Anyone that wants to use the banner below can.
Look at the Arcade Legends logo on the trademark app.
His comments look 3/4 reasonable. Looks like he just wants "apples for apples" comparison when advertising cabs for sale.
We have no desire to use the M.A.M.E. name or logos; we simply wish to find ways to prevent illegal distribution of classic arcade games.
It sounds like in the end, Ultracade has offered the mame team the trademark (with conditions).
where do we read the "official" mame devs position on this?--have they issued a statement or anything--i have no desire to wade through 3 days of posts on mame.net for the one nugget of info.
I am on the fence with some of the cabinet makers
on this issue.
SOOOO, would this mean Emdkay's marwuees, anything with mame one them, is not legal to sellt hen without permission from the mame devs (Nicola, Haze, Aaron Giles...)Legally, emdkay needs permission from both the artist who designed the MAME logo and the artist who designed the marquee containing the logo. Santoro got permission to use the logo on tokens from the people at mame.net in exchange for having the mame.net URL appear on the token. The word MAME itself doesn't need permission as it's not yet trademarked.
SOOOO, would this mean Emdkay's marwuees, anything with mame one them, is not legal to sellt hen without permission from the mame devs (Nicola, Haze, Aaron Giles...)Legally, emdkay needs permission from both the artist who designed the MAME logo and the artist who designed the marquee containing the logo.
Right, I meant when it gets trademarked by the devs.
Right, I meant when it gets trademarked by the devs.
Right, I meant when it gets trademarked by the devs. Then anyone wanting to sell something with mame on it will need permission.That is correct for the word MAME, but the art itself is under automatic copyright, so he really should get permission for that now.
Actually....
http://www.mame.net/features.html
"The MAME logo was designed by chemical and cleaned up by Exodus3D. The high resolution version is available here (765 kB JPEG, resolution 5000x4000). A version without the purple flash is available here (531 kB JPEG, resolution 4500x1500). The usage is free for non-commercial purposes (such as websites), for any commercial purpose (includes use in magazines), please ask a permission from the webmaster. "
This is annoying
I just noticed this thread appear as the #8 Google hit for "ultracade"
This is annoying
Did oyu click on it?
I just noticed this thread appear as the #8 Google hit for "ultracade"
So we need more referrences to Ultracade. Maybe periodically a link to an ultracade page.
Maybe it can be #1 if we truly apply ourselves ;D
-Goz
If I click on that ultrafacade Pays Google Money, and Google in turn pays Saint a % of that.
Just don't click on the Dream Arcades Link, unless you are really interested. If everyone clicked on my link I'd be in big trouble. =-)
Do not deal with Ultracade - Attempted Mame Trademark Theft & Fraud
" We all should be clear and name ALL of Foley's products."
Just so you all know, I will never be reviewing any of their products.
(Not that they'd even talk to me now, but even so...
Just so you all know, I will never be reviewing any of their products.
(Not that they'd even talk to me now, but even so...
Just so you all know, I will never be reviewing any of their products.
(Not that they'd even talk to me now, but even so...
We have licensed technology from many of the community
Might want to start with author of the frontend Ultrastyle. Foley's "Arcade Legends" Machines appear to use it (or something close). I wonder if that Chris guy knows? Maybe he stole it from Foley? Beats me. I've never used that front end before and don't know the history of it.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=140128&cid=11751164
Edit: *Wishes he owned a handgun.
I began pouring through the Ultracade site this morning after reading some of Mr Foley's replies.
I think you need to look at this MAME trademark thing again, and think what it would be like if Capcom or Namco wanted to get back into the classic arcade business. Mr. Foley would seem to be small potatoes, in that regard.
Good for him?
Good for him?
Has anyone actually seen any type of user-agreement in an old cabinet? What ARE the rules regarding those old boards? Meaning at the time, when say PacMan was released, an op buys the game with the boards and off he goes. Was there ever any documentation from Namco/Midway saying, you get this cabinet, this board, no repro etc etc?
Has anyone actually seen any type of user-agreement in an old cabinet?
Basically point by point, Nintendo bashes every thing about emulation in no uncertain terms.
http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#download_rom
Basically point by point, Nintendo bashes every thing about emulation in no uncertain terms.
http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#download_rom
WOW.
..Snip-
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I did not get into the Mame scene to get free games. I did it because I wanted to play the ORIGINAL games, which are harder and harder to find in arcades these days.
They were NOT on the hard drive or in the PC or shipped with the arcade.
I just told them were to get them , same place I got mine
Have you actually bothered to read the issues debated in this thread?
We have one small problem to this whole Mr. Foley issue who is attempting to trademark MAME.
Your point is irrelevant. It has NOTHING to do with the discussion, and isn't even relevant enough to warrant consideration within the discussion. Again, had you read the comments and thread, you'd have known that, or are simply being willfully ignorant and are now just trolling.
with families that have mouths to feed and bills to pay
He is trying to make a point here, which we are all sadly missing. MAME roms are not free. They never were (except those who donated) and we have individuals who are selling arcade cabs with the MAME theme of playing them all.
I also think at the end of all this ROM question of legality, we will see Mr. Foley folding up operation of his business, which is a shame. When was it wrong to play by the rules and sell legal product? When did that happen?
Your point is irrelevant. It has NOTHING to do with the discussion, and isn't even relevant enough to warrant consideration within the discussion. Again, had you read the comments and thread, you'd have known that, or are simply being willfully ignorant and are now just trolling.
And in making your point, you again demonstrate your willful ignorance and inability to distinguish between the argument at hand, and what's actually happening.
After all, would you buy a product that comes loaded with x number of licenced games or a cheaper product that comes with no games but the vendor states they will show you where to get thousands of illegal games for free?.NOOOOO. Many ebay sellers are smart. They will tell you were to get LEGAL roms and other games that could be played with arcade controls.
After all, if this situation was already the case, Mr Foley wouldn't have been able to provide any justification for having competitors pulled from ebay and likely would have failed in efforts to get their products removed.
I had this in a new thread, but was stopped because "there was a thread already regarding it" so I'll repost it here. If this gets stopped, then I know who to write to.
========================================================
None of these comments are in dispute guys.
Mr. Foley is Trademarking MAME as a prospective commercial product. MAME is open source, but we have individuals selling MAME related products which promote the use of roms that are not legal to use with the emulator.Read the Bleem case. There's nothing wrong with emulation. Sony tried to do the whole "promotes piracy" thing. So, are you going to CD player manufacturers and telling them to stop making CD players because it promotes people to make copies of CDs?
We have keyboard encoders that works with MAME and other emulators, Light guns, top rotated joysticks interfaces for Ikari Warriors, top/down spinners for Discs of Tron. The list goes on. I haven't even touched on the cabs and the artwork.We are building arcade controls to play PC games as if they were arcade games. See the sticky note in the software forum.
Why are we building arcade controls for games we are not allowed to play, anyway? Are you telling me these sites do not make any money on these products? MAME is not making money, heck, it needs donations to get the boards!
So whats the quickest option to stop the madness in Mr. Foley's mind? Trademark MAME. Who cares if he is treadding on toes?The people's toes he is treading on cares. They way he is going about it is not right. He's closing eBay auctions down that are completely legal using the excuse he trademarked MAME, which is not the case yet. He doesn't own mame as a trademark yet so having auctions close with the reason that they are infringing upon the trademark is fraud.
Mr. Foley is Trademarking MAME as a prospective commercial product.With comments like that I'd believe you are Foley or affiliated with him. how would you know what he is thinking?
If his application is successful, Mr. Foley will want the MAME dev team to continue as normal.
Did you read my previous post? Are you being negative on purpose?Let's recap.
Mr. Foley is Trademarking MAME as a prospective commercial product. MAME is open source, but we have individuals selling MAME related products which promote the use of roms that are not legal to use with the emulator.
We have keyboard encoders that works with MAME and other emulators, Light guns, top rotated joysticks interfaces for Ikari Warriors, top/down spinners for Discs of Tron. The list goes on. I haven't even touched on the cabs and the artwork.
Why are we building arcade controls for games we are not allowed to play, anyway? Are you telling me these sites do not make any money on these products? MAME is not making money, heck, it needs donations to get the boards!
If this doesn't promote a competitive product with Ultracade, I don't know what does. The MAME devs have the boards, and the legal use to develop MAME as a platform to keep these games alive, regardless if the day comes when these ROMS becomes public domain.
So whats the quickest option to stop the madness in Mr. Foley's mind? Trademark MAME. Who cares if he is treadding on toes?
If his application is successful, Mr. Foley will want the MAME dev team to continue as normal, but they won't be allowed to release binaries. And let's face it, what is there left to support? Should we look at emulating 2004 arcade games next?
Most of the Japanese copied roms are already breaking Japanese law.
None of these comments are in dispute guys.
==================
Disclaimer:
My comments are my own, and I am not supporting Ultracade in anyway. If you do not agree with my comments, fine. But please refrain from name calling, especially towards Mr. Foley. I won't sue you for slander, but he can, and we don't want that.
I don't really care if Mr. Foley grabs MAME's copyright or not. He touched a nerve that shouldn't have happend, and I'm not endorsing his actions, but you have to understand his motives regardless.
Did you read my previous post? Are you being negative on purpose?
If his application is successful, Mr. Foley will want the MAME dev team to continue as normal, but they won't be allowed to release binaries.
I don't really care if Mr. Foley grabs MAME's copyright or not. He touched a nerve that shouldn't have happend, and I'm not endorsing his actions, but you have to understand his motives regardless.
What a hipocrate!
http://www.ultracade.com/flashsite.html
Goto Consumer Products.
Click on Hammer.
Ok, I am the minority, but I think that all of this anti-mame stuff is crap.
If it wasn't for MAME, this board would not exist. When I put MAME on a cabinet, I do it out of respect for the years of work that others put in so that I may have a multigame arcade cabinet. I like to see MAME on a cabinet. People are showing their loyalty and support to the creators of the tool. How many people buy Sports apparel with their team logo? Our team is MAME folks, and they work hard so we can play hard.
That said, a lot of people put MAME on there cabinet because it is thing to do. They don't think that it holds the same meaning.
I'd like to know what Howard thinks of putting MAME on a cab. People are partly paying him homage for his work when they display the logo.
ROTFL. He is getting a trademark. All MAME has to do is become GAME, HAME, DAME, RAME, SLAME, BAME, or, god forbid, LAME, and boom, he has zero power again.
He must have a lot staked on iRoms.The question is, can he do what starroms hasn;t been able to do?
Put it this way:He must have a lot staked on iRoms.The question is, can he do what starroms hasn;t been able to do?
How many of you have paid starroms?
I know you're just making a point, so take this as being directed at lloyd, to "clear things up" for him
Mr. Foley is Trademarking MAME as a prospective commercial product.
Damn, the air is thick in here!?!
;)
This is funny.
Dunno if anyone can clarify this or not?.
I know Foley has applied for the Trademark concerning the Stylistic MAME logo. Can he actually get the trademark for the general term MAME though?.
------8<---------snip
Dunno if anyone can clarify this or not?.
I know Foley has applied for the Trademark concerning the Stylistic MAME logo. Can he actually get the trademark for the general term MAME though?.
------8<---------snip
That point has been raised already, twice by me. I've said it, and I'll say it again: YES he could get the acronym and phrase registered to him, if it were not for the stolen logo.
Someone else asked about legal sources for the other 90% of ROMs... Well Hanaho has legal distribution rights to Capcom's entire classic library. If you buy the Hanaho HotRod joystick, you get a Capcom emulator and dozens of Capcom ROMs with it.
~Ray B.
To be "similar" to mp3 distribution, ROM's & emus are missing one thing:
DRM - Digital Rights Management.
Say Foley gets permission to spread roms through his nutty service, he's going to need an emulator that can "authorize" the use of that rom.
We will be happy to cancel our application and work with the M.A.M.E. team to assign it to its rightful owners;
Nobody would be able to protect a trademark on that. lol.
And if his iROMs service goes forward, that's a good thing for the community, even if we refuse to use it.
I agree. The other issue here is that this guy has apparently no capability to formulate and execute a coherent strategy. I ask: Why would one pi$$ down the leg of the very community which is the target market for iRoms? This guy's business acumen leaves something to be desired.And if his iROMs service goes forward, that's a good thing for the community, even if we refuse to use it.
Could be a bad thing--especially if no one uses it. If iRoms goes down in flames, it would be unlikely anyone would try anything like it again (creating a legal source of roms.)
"So you say you need investors, Mr. StarROMs? I don't know, remember what happened to that iRoms thing..." :(
Ayone using MAME MUST be running illegal roms
Now that mamedevs are "in the open", pursue mame as illegal
Note DF has already made statements to the effect that "since mame emus capcom, it is an illegal sf package"
BYOAC's longest thread ever? When will this thread lose momentum?
3) Hanaho Capcom CD, you can legally run those Capcom games which happens to run on a modified version of mame32.
3) Hanaho Capcom CD, you can legally run those Capcom games which happens to run on a modified version of mame32.
You sure about that? When RetroFX GnG was active we had a couple discussions with Hanaho, and I'm pretty sure their emulator was written by Larry Bank. In fact, Larry's core emulator is what RetroFX GnG was built off of (with Larry's permission).
BYOAC's longest thread ever? When will this thread lose momentum?
Not yet
And remember, it's too late to kill MAME. The program exists. We all have it. We all have ROMS. Unless Mr. Ultracade (TM) has something AMAZING up his sleeve that can play all the games that we crave that MAME can't, he can jam it.
And remember, it's too late to kill MAME. The program exists. We all have it. We all have ROMS. Unless Mr. Ultracade (TM) has something AMAZING up his sleeve that can play all the games that we crave that MAME can't, he can jam it. :P
Not entirely true. I've been trying to find a program which I know was deemed copyright infringement and it was an open source project call freecraft, a warcraft like RTS. I have been searching all over the net for the source for that. Blizzard has actively shut down sites that mention it.
Maybe try contacting the guys at FCGP (http://www.honors.montana.edu/~jjc/fcraft/index.html)And remember, it's too late to kill MAME. The program exists. We all have it. We all have ROMS. Unless Mr. Ultracade (TM) has something AMAZING up his sleeve that can play all the games that we crave that MAME can't, he can jam it. :P
Not entirely true. I've been trying to find a program which I know was deemed copyright infringement and it was an open source project call freecraft, a warcraft like RTS. I have been searching all over the net for the source for that. Blizzard has actively shut down sites that mention it.
Now does this mean that he's entitled to take the legal steps he's taking?
The cabs that are sold on ebay and elsewhere are most definitely advertising on the ability to play pirated ROMS. Virtually every MAME capable cabinet on ebay loudly proclaims its ability to play THOUSANDS of arcade and console games. Nowhere on the page will it give the caveat that to play thousands of games, you should own thousands of JAMMA boards and cartidges and have your own personal ROM extractor. I doubt a cabinet has ever been purchased by someone who did not put at least several hundred illegal roms on it within a day of getting it.
The cabs that are sold on ebay and elsewhere are most definitely advertising on the ability to play pirated ROMS.
Now does this mean that he's entitled to take the legal steps he's taking?
Colmore, have you ever burned a cd?
this is like the biggest thread ever.Nope, As of this post. Tied for second.
Don't the ultracade cocktails have a dual screen mirror mode? whereby fighting games can be played at either end instead of you needing controls at the front of the cab? Would be a terrible shame if an image of THAT software made it out onto the internet :)
By the way guys, theres no official version of mame that can do the same thing, is there?
Who is going to trust this guy? Other companies? Please. He committed a crime by filing the application.
Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001 makes it a crime to: 1) knowingly and willfully; 2) make any materially false, fictitious or fraudulent statement or representation; 3) in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative or judicial branch of the United States. Your lie does not even have to be made directly to an employee of the national government as long as it is "within the jurisdiction" of the federal bureaucracy. [ripped from a site]
:police: :police:And here is the crime in all of it's glory!! :police: :police:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=32730.0;id=10214;image)
I don't think any examiner wants to ... ;)Boycott Arcade Legends and Ultracade![/b]
Application still "not assigned" to an examiner...
ANd actually, THAT idea deserves a full thread. A double image cocktail mode for playing non cocktail horizontal games on vertical cocktails is something that A LOT of people would probably really enjoy.
I predict that someone will take a hard drive image out of an ultracade, crack the security on it, and then release the image to the world.I predict that someone will take a hard drive image out of an ultracade, crack the security on it, and then find out that it's really M.A.M.E. ;)
I was thinking about DF iRoms program.
I was thinking about DF iRoms program.
Lets see what we can do about pulling the plug...If you were a woman I'd kiss you.
Did you guys read about that OS? I wonder what that would be like on a mame cab? 1sec boot time sounds NICE!I'm going to try and install this, this weekend...
Todd
wow with 2000+ posts you just found out about that FE.
About the Ultracade HD Image. Just FYI. The one I dissected
... rusted away to the point where the only thing left is the marquee rail, but I can still render the game thanks to exception number 3.LOL. That's what I've been saying too. Nobody has shown that the ROM's are illegal. If they are, how much of the original do you need in order to play your "backup"? The courts have never dealt with it.
About the Ultracade HD Image. Just FYI. The one I dissected
Suppose the following:
...
5) - David R. Foley sees an opportunity for leverage against the M.A.M.E. creators in that the M.A.M.E. name and logo have never been trademarked and quickly files for the M.A.M.E. trademark himself.
6) - David R. Foley agrees to return ownership of the M.A.M.E. name and logo to the original M.A.M.E. creators in exchange for the rights to use M.A.M.E. code in all of his arcade machines and thus avoids the possibility of ever being sued by the M.A.M.E. creators
Given the fact that the Capcom emulator that is included on their CD's is based on MAME.
Given the fact that the Capcom emulator that is included on their CD's is based on MAME.
This place/guy sounds like a reasonable fellow...
Lets see what we can do about pulling the plug..
Suppose the following:
1) - Ultracade is actually based on M.A.M.E. and includes M.A.M.E. code
2) - In order to hide this fact, David R. Foley builds some serious copy protection into his systems and begins selling his arcade machines.
3) - Ultracade begins to grow and actually make a nice profit
4) - David R. Foley becomes even more concerned over the possibility of M.A.M.E. code being discovered in his arcade machines and the resulting possibility of his being sued by the original M.A.M.E. creators for his unauthorized use of M.A.M.E. code.
5) - David R. Foley sees an opportunity for leverage against the M.A.M.E. creators in that the M.A.M.E. name and logo have never been trademarked and quickly files for the M.A.M.E. trademark himself.
6) - David R. Foley agrees to return ownership of the M.A.M.E. name and logo to the original M.A.M.E. creators in exchange for the rights to use M.A.M.E. code in all of his arcade machines and thus avoids the possibility of ever being sued by the M.A.M.E. creators
4) - David R. Foley becomes even more concerned over the possibility of M.A.M.E. code being discovered in his arcade machines...
4) - David R. Foley becomes even more concerned over the possibility of M.A.M.E. code being discovered in his arcade machines...
You may be on to something. Sounds compelling. I just found a PDF Manual for Ultracade machines, and there was something that caught my eye: http://www.happcontrols.com/images/pdf/ultracade_manual.pdf (PDF)
Is this clause standard? Or *is* he hiding something? Given your assumption above, it does sound fishy.
"By accepting and operating an ULTRACADE system, the owner/operator of each ULTRACADE system agrees to abide by all copyrights and trademarks and not to attempt to decompile or modify the operating system in anyway."
mrC
Ok, I think it's time to call in a hacker/programmer.
Why would he have overtly started trying to earn royalties from it if he only wanted to protect himself from litigation?.Because if he has been using M.A.M.E. code all along he can't just come out and say his real intentions or else he would be sued.
Given the fact that the Capcom emulator that is included on their CD's is based on MAME.
I lke where this is going. Crack that ULTRATHIEF software/os and see if it contains MAME code and also DISTRIBUTE it in ABEM like crazy and we use his F.E and put any roms/game we want or find out the UNLOCK codes for the extra games thats locked and post that also.
I lke where this is going. Crack that ULTRATHIEF software/os and see if it contains MAME code and also DISTRIBUTE it in ABEM like crazy and we use his F.E and put any roms/game we want or find out the UNLOCK codes for the extra games thats locked and post that also.
Actually, that would be bad.
It would be interesting to know if David R. Foley has approached Aaron or Haze about getting the rights to use M.A.M.E. codeI am a bit confussed. How can anyone use Mame in a commercial product?
It can be done. But your not supposed to. And I would reccomend not doing it.It would be interesting to know if David R. Foley has approached Aaron or Haze about getting the rights to use M.A.M.E. codeI am a bit confussed. How can anyone use Mame in a commercial product?
It is stated that can not be done?
Yes, but it may be too late for David R. FoleyIt can be done. But your not supposed to. And I would reccomend not doing it.It would be interesting to know if David R. Foley has approached Aaron or Haze about getting the rights to use M.A.M.E. codeI am a bit confussed. How can anyone use Mame in a commercial product?
It is stated that can not be done?
Yes, I believe that it is very possible that David R. Foley has been hiding behind that user agreement and has gambled that it would protect him from anyone discovering M.A.M.E. code in his machines OS.4) - David R. Foley becomes even more concerned over the possibility of M.A.M.E. code being discovered in his arcade machines...
You may be on to something. Sounds compelling. I just found a PDF Manual for Ultracade machines (http://www.happcontrols.com/images/pdf/ultracade_manual.pdf), and there was something that caught my eye:
"By accepting and operating an ULTRACADE system, the owner/operator of each ULTRACADE system agrees to abide by all copyrights and trademarks and not to attempt to decompile or modify the operating system in anyway."
Is this clause standard? Or *is* he hiding something? Given your assumption above, it does sound fishy.
mrC
Here's a good read:
http://www.copyright.gov/1201/
ROMs are legal - if you own the original equipment. I point you to this paragraph:
"(3) Computer programs and video games distributed in formats that have become obsolete and which require the original media or hardware as a condition of access. A format shall be considered obsolete if the machine or system necessary to render perceptible a work stored in that format is no longer manufactured or is no longer reasonably available in the commercial marketplace."
There are grey areas, to be sure, however it can certainly be argued that they are obsolete (sigh!)
And my two cents about iROMS - not me, not now, not ever.
Star ROMs - You bet!
QuoteHere's a good read:
http://www.copyright.gov/1201/
ROMs are legal - if you own the original equipment. I point you to this paragraph:
"(3) Computer programs and video games distributed in formats that have become obsolete and which require the original media or hardware as a condition of access. A format shall be considered obsolete if the machine or system necessary to render perceptible a work stored in that format is no longer manufactured or is no longer reasonably available in the commercial marketplace."
There are grey areas, to be sure, however it can certainly be argued that they are obsolete (sigh!)
And my two cents about iROMS - not me, not now, not ever.
Star ROMs - You bet!
Cracking Ultracade would be like cracking anyother new game out there.I don't think we can crack it and toss it out on the internet for down load but, I do think we could buy a used one and open it up and post our findings.
Cracking Ultracade would be like cracking anyother new game out there.I don't think we can crack it and toss it out on the internet for down load but, I do think we could buy a used one and open it up and post our findings.
Why used. Because I would not have agreed to the licences agreement.
I did not get it from the company so I am not bind-ed by that agreement
Cracking Ultracade would be like cracking anyother new game out there.I don't think we can crack it and toss it out on the internet for down load but, I do think we could buy a used one and open it up and post our findings.
Why used. Because I would not have agreed to the licences agreement.
I did not get it from the company so I am not bind-ed by that agreement
I'd get yourself a really good lawyer before banking on that theory.
Cracking Ultracade would be like cracking anyother new game out there.I don't think we can crack it and toss it out on the internet for down load but, I do think we could buy a used one and open it up and post our findings.
Why used. Because I would not have agreed to the licences agreement.
I did not get it from the company so I am not bind-ed by that agreement
I'd get yourself a really good lawyer before banking on that theory.
I no longer have the system but it would seem that we forgot two cd's when we shipped it out (seriously we just forgot about them) and they still reside in my desk here.
The way I read it you are both not quite right.
The title of the page answers what it is about
"Rulemaking on Exemptions from Prohibition on Circumvention of Technological Measures that Control Access to Copyrighted Works"
This means breaking the security on obsolete technology is legal.
As to JOS. I wrote the guy a while back to request a copy of the system and he said it was not available for any amount. *shrug* So whatever.
I've long thought there must be MAME code in it but a cursory inspection of the files doesn't show any tale-tale signs. Also it is a fact that UC used to have all the NAMCO games in them on a don't ask don't tell policy until DF got a little note from NAMCO sometime last summer ('04) which he sent out to the Ops.
Just a case of a very very black pot calling all the kettles black to me.
..and by the way.. Matthew Sweet ROCKS!!! ;D
P.S. I love the fact that the spell checker suggests Ultrasuede for Ultracade...
are you saying I can not buy a hard drive off ebay and use software to find out what was on that drive. why not? I bought it off a individual not a companies.true but DVDs are encrypted so are Cd's but we are allowed to back it up. I am not saying sell the info or even give out the Roms. But I really think if I bought his system I have every right to check into its workings , if I so want to. I can even tell people what I found . Just not pass out the product so the other persons
especially if the drive was broken and I went through it to fix it.Quote
I am not claiming to be an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I am pretty sure the US DCMA prohibits bypassing mechanisms such as encryption and keys intended to protect software, music, etc.
I don't think it takes into account how you acquired the content to begin with.
This topic has been moved to Everything Else.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=32730.0
Did You Know:
HyperWare (owned by Foley), seems to supply computers to Ultracade (owned by Foley) and Arcade Legends (owned by Foley).
So THAT's why his businesses keep changing names.
Anyway, Ultracade Inc. is the current company run by David Foley, and it doesn't look like there's any current connection to Quantum3D (which is still alive and kicking).
THE STINGER REPORT #130
Ultracade Helped Back Into Ring
Word on the Street
As Hyperware ended their investment in the amusement sector, and dropped their 2,500 unit selling Ultracard retro kit and cabinet PC endeavors, industry philanthropist, Happ Controls, building on their Midway acquisition has stepped up to become the company's new controller.
The agreement will see the sales and manufacture of the Ultracade and any Graphite arcade PC's handled exclusively through Happ Controls. The Ultracade has proven more of a proposition to operators in its kit variant, though it is expected that a few upright cabinets will be manufactured. The remnants of the technical team retained by bankrupted Hyperware parent Quantum3D have privately agreed to support the Ultracade through a shell company called Ultracade Technologies. There are a number of pet projects that they would like to investigate along with additional game packs.
This will be the second indirect Midway acquisition that Happ will have acquired as they already run a number of kit versions of Midway "old Gold" (Invasion and Area 51), while the Ultracade runs a number of Midway titles. The return to the amusement sector, no matter how much supported by Happ, there is one issue that has followed the operation that looks set to be a constant issue in their new guise.
For those that have not followed the Stingers coverage of the Hyperware operation it is best to say that the company has attempted to present an amusement face to a sector of the hobby / consumer games market that has affected the arcade market. The Retro revival (playing of classic arcade games on home systems) has exploded on the playing scene since the late 90
The Waiting Game
3/2/05: Another follow up. Posting the following is still illegal:
(http://www.retroblast.com/graphics/mamelogo_big.gif)
As are posting the following phrases:
MAME
Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator
Where Things Stand
As far as I know, the Trademark Application on the MAME phrase and logo made by David Foley of Ultracade has still not been withdrawn, despite his assurances that it would be.
Aaron Giles (part of the MAME development team) is taking steps to get the trademark assigned to Nicola (the founding father of MAME), and this is a good thing (still not trademarked by Martha Stewart).
Mr. Foley wanted assurances that the MAME logo would not be used commercially, and as far as he is concerned this whole fiasco is a great success. He got what he wanted, or so he claims.
I've got to admit I'm curious as to the level of "cooperation" given him by the MAME development team, since they really owed him nothing (but might have had to prove that through the use of a lawsuit, always an expensive proposition).
The Future of MAME
"We are concerned about the commercial marketplace, and not the readers of the many MAME user groups and forums." - David R. Foleyhttp://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=4992
Here are the floorplans (http://www.missionwest.com/Available_Properties/6810_Santa_Teresa.pdf) to the bldg. And from this arial photo (http://terraserver.microsoft.com/addressimage.aspx?T=1&S=10&Alon=-121.781822&Alat=37.229869&W=1&opt=0&qs=6810+Santa+Teresa+Blvd%7cSan+Jose%7cCA&addr=6810+Santa+Teresa+Blvd%2c+San+Jose%2c+CA+95119&Lon=-121.78233297333334&Lat=37.2309792), it looks like it's only a 1-story bldg.
I'm going to abide by the MAME team's wishes and keep things on the DL for now, but if their negotiations don't go well...
Let's just say this discussion won't be relegated to the domain of forum posts.
Happiness and Sorrow
Our time away brings heaviness upon my heart.
I breathe the air, but am missing a vital substance.
My heart is longing for that special feeling that only comes from time together.
I think a million thoughts of you throughout the day,
days that without you seem to last forever.
Joy and Comfort are the most prevalent feelings that occupy my soul.
I gaze upon your image, and think of all that is wonderful and kind.
A warm sense of calm washes over my body as I dream of times together.
A cold shiver tightens my skin as I realize we are apart.
I long for day when once again we can breathe the same air,
And until that day happens,
just know that you are always with me.
David R. Foley, 2001
Copyright
"In the end, you will review our iROMs service, and talk all about it. You won't have a choice as it will have a huge impact on the community and you wont' want to be left out. I don't care if you don't review it, or even mention it, your participation will have no impact on it's success." - David R. Foleyhttp://www.retroblast.com/index.php#
;) You really shouldn't say such things because:Quote"In the end, you will review our iROMs service, and talk all about it. You won't have a choice as it will have a huge impact on the community and you wont' want to be left out. I don't care if you don't review it, or even mention it, your participation will have no impact on it's success." - David R. Foleyhttp://www.retroblast.com/index.php#
"We are concerned about the commercial marketplace, and not the readers of the many MAME user groups and forums." - David R. Foleyhttp://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=4992
(To Kevin)http://www.retroblast.com/index.php#
"In the end, you will review our iROMs service, and talk all about it. You won't have a choice as it will have a huge impact on the community and you wont' want to be left out. I don't care if you don't review it, or even mention it, your participation will have no impact on it's success." - David R. Foley
so how is he going to stop roms being freely available via bittorrent???
cant someone just go round and punch that smug smile off his face?
Doesn't anyone on this forum have contacts w/ a good trademark lawyer who'll advise for little or no cost? A friend, brother, sister, acquaintance? I'm going to follow some leads and see if I can't dig somebody up myself.
Um..wow look at this ultracade auction.
I bet he is running mame code under his own custom frontend.Like that dude selling "the time machine" cuz he runs his own frontend+mame and acts like he "CREATED" MAME.
Here's an explaination direct from Mr. Foley:
"iROMs will be launching this summer. If we get some help from the MAME team, and keep it out of the commercial market (just as they claim is the intent in MAME.TXT) we will allow the roms to run on MAME machines. The model is much like iTunes. We'll have staggered pricing from $9.99 for titles like Defender or Street Fighter II, down as low as $0.99 for titles like Speed Coin.
Licenses will be for consumer, end user use only, no resale of roms, no public performance of ROMs, etc etc. We'll start with PC and MAC platforms, and then look at some of the handhelds such as GP32."
In order to protect this service, David Foley is planning an all-out assault on pirate ROM sites. As he puts it:
"We'll have the only legal means to get hundreds of games, AND, we will shut down every pirate site in the coming year. If people want them legally, they'll get them from us."
Foley will do no better. He has essentially poisoned himself within the user base, and will have to rely on operators or the ignorant to make a profit.
Y'know, after everything is said and done, I'm not to worried. The current owners of the Amiga brand tried crushing out the "piracy" of their 15 year old software, and they failed on a cataclysmic scale.
I bought my MAME cab from them. (it wasnt aUm..wow look at this ultracade auction.
That auction is for an Ultracade machine...but it's NOT run by Ultracade. That's an arcade store about 100 miles from me that sells machines. They've got hundreds of different machines in stock. It's a visual wonder to walk in and see it all...but most couldn't afford the prices he charges.
If people want them legally, they'll get them from us."
Y'know, after everything is said and done, I'm not to worried.
If I were to make a wager, I would bet that his iRoms idea will sink faster than a solid gold boat filled with lead. It's as though he shot himself in the foot, and not satisfied with the results, proceeded to shoot himself in the kneecap, hip, torso, chest, neck, head and arms.
I'm really, really interested in the endgame. I'll pop the popcorn, you bring the beer.
Um..wow look at this ultracade auction.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13716&item=6158036853&rd=1
"We have EVEN MORE of your
ALL TIME FAVORITE titles available - call for a complete list!
Who does he think is his target market?
Just read DF's replies to Kevin Steele's (Retroblast) questions.
I think the thing a lot of people are missing here is the very real chance that Foley will bring the original ROMS owners sniffing around, since he's screaming so loud about profit and that may put a real chill into developers.
Just read DF's replies to Kevin Steele's (Retroblast) questions.
as dumb as a box of rocksJust read DF's replies to Kevin Steele's (Retroblast) questions. And the guy is making it seem he ALREADY owns MAME and he owns every game ever developed.
That is EXACTLY what I said.I mean...how dumb can this DF can POSSIBLY be...................................
Can we get this thread deleted please.. just in case...I have to ask...
is this the longest thread there has been on BYOAC?
Has anyone been in touch with StarRoms?
You know, if StarRoms had some support they could probably acquire more licenses and make iRoms obsolete even before it's launched. If the community is going to donate anything financially, I think we should see if StarRoms could do with anything.
iRoms isn't getting EXCLUSIVE rights to sell roms is it?
Has anyone been in touch with StarRoms?
You know, if StarRoms had some support they could probably acquire more licenses and make iRoms obsolete even before it's launched. If the community is going to donate anything financially, I think we should see if StarRoms could do with anything.
iRoms isn't getting EXCLUSIVE rights to sell roms is it?
It sounds like DF is looking to put StarRoms out of business. I wonder what their take is on all this. Do they have an exclusive licencing agreement with Atari?
Who does he think is his target market?His target market is the people that already spent the $3000+ to get an Ultracade machine. As you'll need his machine to run roms purchased from iRoms.
"Licenses will be for consumer, end user use only, no resale of roms, no public performance of ROMs, etc etc. We'll start with PC and MAC platforms, and then look at some of the handhelds such as GP32."http://www.retroblast.com/index.php#
In order to protect this service, David Foley is planning an all-out assault on pirate ROM sites. As he puts it:
"We'll have the only legal means to get hundreds of games, AND, we will shut down every pirate site in the coming year. If people want them legally, they'll get them from us."
I prefer to give my $$$ for a lawyer for the Mame Dev's to battle in court.
I allready buy Roms from star Roms ;)
How will I Roms be more legal than every one Else's. Because he so said so?
What I don't understand is this:
- MAME supports the EXACT arcade game.
- Foley's ROM's won't work with MAME.
- Foley can't be using the EXACT game then.
But foley wants to shut it all down.
the more i think of this, i figure that it is desperate actions from somebody who's company is going down the pan...
most of the Roms out there are ABANDONED. who really owns them?
the mame roms will just go onto bittorrent network or MIRC- how the hell does he think he would stop that? is he going to go after each individual?
the mame roms will just go onto bittorrent network or MIRC- how the hell does he think he would stop that? is he going to go after each individual?
They are already there...
So emulating a ROM you own is legally OK for the MAME team.
...sounds like the start of a great song.. lol
Help me alleviate this fear. So far, I haven't heard a strong argument suggesting that MAME is in the clear...
mrC
Help me alleviate this fear. So far, I haven't heard a strong argument suggesting that MAME is in the clear...
...sounds like the start of a great song.. lol
Help me alleviate this fear. So far, I haven't heard a strong argument suggesting that MAME is in the clear...
mrC
I think the key is to figure out how to help StarRoms get more ROMs. I have bought my ROMS from them, what else can we do? Would price increases help get more licensing deals? Does anyone know if they are represented here?
Can't find the answer you're looking for? Send email to support@starroms.com or we can be reached by telephone at 866-401-9936.
You can contact StarROMs via email at the following addresses:
Feedback: feedback@starroms.com
Customer Support: support@starroms.com
Legal & Copyrights: legal@starroms.com
General Inquiry: info@starroms.com
StarROMs is a Delaware Corporation with offices in Ohio and Vermont. We can be reached by mail at either of the following addresses:
StarROMs, Inc.
14155 Perfect Road
Sunbury, OH 43074
U.S.A.
StarROMs, Inc.
P.O. Box 12
Taftsville, VT 05073
U.S.A.
Thank you for supporting StarROMs.
which address did you use?
Help me alleviate this fear. So far, I haven't heard a strong argument suggesting that MAME is in the clear...
mrC
which address did you use?
info@starroms
The MAME site points out that the purpose of the emulator is to preserve the hardware, playing the games is a nice side effect (I know, I know). While not watertight this has been the official standpoint since as long as I'm a user (i.e. since mame 030). While downloading the roms may be illegal, as long as they own one original board and the emulator is original code by the mamedevs I don't see how they could be liable. They cannot be held responsible for misuse by others in the community.
WOW!!!
Look at the prices of the Ultracade Game Packs on the bottom of the page...
http://www.thepinballstore.com/ultracade.html
Human beings should no longer reproduce, because your offspring might be used for illegal activities when they grow up!
Just got a new products flyer from Happ Controls. Guess what---they are now distributing Ultracade boards and complete machines!
I'm not sure if this article was mentioned already but here's one that shows how Happ Controls was involved in getting Ultracade back on it's feet:
http://www.casbox.com/Stinger/Sting130.htmlQuoteTHE STINGER REPORT #130
Ultracade Helped Back Into Ring
Word on the Street
As Hyperware ended their investment in the amusement sector, and dropped their 2,500 unit selling Ultracard retro kit and cabinet PC endeavors, industry philanthropist, Happ Controls, building on their Midway acquisition has stepped up to become the company's new controller.
The agreement will see the sales and manufacture of the Ultracade and any Graphite arcade PC's handled exclusively through Happ Controls. The Ultracade has proven more of a proposition to operators in its kit variant, though it is expected that a few upright cabinets will be manufactured. The remnants of the technical team retained by bankrupted Hyperware parent Quantum3D have privately agreed to support the Ultracade through a shell company called Ultracade Technologies. There are a number of pet projects that they would like to investigate along with additional game packs.
This will be the second indirect Midway acquisition that Happ will have acquired as they already run a number of kit versions of Midway "old Gold" (Invasion and Area 51), while the Ultracade runs a number of Midway titles. The return to the amusement sector, no matter how much supported by Happ, there is one issue that has followed the operation that looks set to be a constant issue in their new guise.
For those that have not followed the Stingers coverage of the Hyperware operation it is best to say that the company has attempted to present an amusement face to a sector of the hobby / consumer games market that has affected the arcade market. The Retro revival (playing of classic arcade games on home systems) has exploded on the playing scene since the late 90
Hey, check this out:
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=27096
A "horse racing sim"?
Kevin
Ultracade Hires New Vice President of Manufacturing
10 Mar, 2005
Ultracade Technologies manufacturer of classic multi-game video machines for the coin-op and consumer markets, today announced the new hire of Fred Abadi. Mr. Abadi brings over a decade of experience in manufacturing, customer service, operations and purchasing in the location-based entertainment market. Before joining the fast growing UltraCade team, Fred was employed at companies like Interactive Light and GlobalVR in manufacturing and operational positions. He worked on titles like Kick It, Slide It and Home Run Derby while at Interactive Light. At GlobalVR Fred lead manufacturing of unforgettable titles like PGA Golf and Need for Speed.
My goodness, those pictures make it look like a complete rip off or Derby Owner's Club right down to the Engrish.
The only problem is they are making the mistake of making them separate units, if they really want to sell machines that are profitible for the ops then they need the big unified install with the Giant double projection screens like Sega has, otherwise greedy ops will just buy a pair of them and then get all pissy when they can't earn like Derby Owner's Club can.
You know, with all this talk, has anyone actually done anything? Or are we just sitting around this sewing circle, and 700 replies later, still reitierating the same things?
Now, granted, I've not taken any actions, but it appears, other than cute pictures, no one else has either.
You know, with all this talk, has anyone actually done anything? Or are we just sitting around this sewing circle, and 700 replies later, still reitierating the same things?Did you mean reiterating? ;D
Now, granted, I've not taken any actions, but it appears, other than cute pictures, no one else has either.
Paul while I'm thinking of it and since I really wanted to give you more in depth response anyway, let me suggest an idea to you. The most important thing that the MAME community can do to help StarROMs is to help promote our service as a legitimate source of ROMs. I realize our selection is limited but you see there is a kind of chicken and egg problem. We need to show higher sales in order to acquire new licenses, and yet it's hard to generate large sales numbers with only a limited set of titles. In our view a large percentage of MAME users are still using pirated ROMs. Perhaps the rationale is that if you have to download some roms illegally, what is the value of downloading others legally. We feel like we've received quite a bit of support from the MAME community, and we would like to be in a position to offer more support in return. But the truth is that we have still not yet been universally accepted by and within the MAME community and there is a lot more that could be done to highlight StarROMs as a legal source for ROMS. Honestly, I think David Foley is partially correct when he suggests (I'll paraphrase) that a lot of folks are at least implicitly, if not explicitly, encouraging illegal ROM distribution.
Clearly I'm biased, but I would love to see StarROMs more prominently highlighted as a legal source of ROMs on MAME related sites on the web, rather then pointing users in other directions, shall we say. I honestly believe that if the MAME community were to universally embrace StarROMs and encourage MAME users to support us that our sales would sky-rocket and we could make much, much more compelling offers to game owners than we have been able to make thus far. I understand that initially perhaps there was some concern that since StarROMs was a for profit venture, why should the MAME community embrace us as a solution. We haven't tried to take a forceful approach to encouraging legal ROM use. Instead we've taken the approach of letting users decide. But the truth is it costs money to secure licenses and to hire lawyers to deal with, for example, the likes of Ultracade. And a legal, commercial ROMs service such as StarROMs is in our view a very positive thing for the MAME community.
Let me suggest one other thing for your consideration and the consideration of others whom you may come into contact with. Without StarROMs, I believe a fairly compelling case could be made by Ultracade or whomever that pretty much everything MAME related is illegal, since it is by and large used for illegal purposes. MAME has never been put to this test but it seems possible and even perhaps likely that it will be in the future. StarROMs has truly helped to legitimize this entire area, from a legal perspective, by offering a fully legal and compelling user experience with the games we offer. With the Atari ROMs freely available from StarROMs (well, not free, but), it is quite reasonable to conclude that a large and substantial amount of the use of MAME is fully legal, something which could not previously be said. StarROMs has never attempted to use a heavy hand to encourage the community to "come clean". On the other hand if Ultracade were to become the only legal source for ROMS, I believe they would have a strong case, potentially, to "extract royalties" from anything and everything MAME related. Clearly this is their intent, as evidenced by their actions.
In summary, perhaps if the MAME community were to collectively do some self policing, so to speak, highlighting the legal use of the product by encouraging people to use our service, rather then downloading ROMS illegally, this could prevent a situation longer term where David and his lawyers take on the "policing" role. With greater support from the MAME community, I think there is a reasonable chance that together we can help preserve what has been created and build upon it's legitimacy rather then to see someone else hijack the entire market.
Thanks again for getting in touch Paul.
-Frank
Oh goodie.. here are the pics for the Ultracade Racing Sim:
(http://www.barcade.com/media/images/1735_BreedersCupss05.jpg)
Oh goodie.. here are the pics for the Ultracade Racing Sim:
(http://www.barcade.com/media/images/1735_BreedersCupss05.jpg)
Am I the only one who find "Press Start to Breed a New Horse" hilarious?
Perhaps I just have a sick mind...
Kevin
Oh goodie.. here are the pics for the Ultracade Racing Sim:
(http://www.barcade.com/media/images/1735_BreedersCupss05.jpg)
Am I the only one who find "Press Start to Breed a New Horse" hilarious?
Perhaps I just have a sick mind...
Kevin
BWAHAHAHAHA-LOL!
Foley is also using copy rigted artwork on his cabinet..someone wax him >:(
I see ryu and ken on his cab..how that is not "copy right infrigment" is beyond me but I am sure he is telling people HE drew everything from SCRATCH.
But do they have "exclusive" rights?
Wow, Mr. Ultracade sucks and all, but I dig that Street Fighter cab.
today announced the new hire of Fred Abadi.
The Final Word...For Now
3/12/05: Wrapping Things Up
This is going to be my last update on the "MAME Trademark War."
What the heck, I'll throw in my $.02 (Hey! I just noticed my keyboard doesn't have the "cents" symbol! How long has that been missing?)
Allow me a Slim Pickens moment:I agree..
YeeeeHaaaaa! ;D
Aaron Giles' Home Pagehttp://www.aarongiles.com/index.html
March 14, 2005
MAME Trademark Update
I know a bunch of folks have been itching to know what's going on with the whole MAME trademark issue. Well, with the help of several prominent friends, we consulted a trademark attorney and decided to see if David Foley was up to his word.
Last week, Nicola's application began showing up in the USPTO database. Once that happened, I contacted Mr. Foley and asked him to abandon his claim to the trademark, which you can see he did.
So, what does this all mean? First, it means that the MAME trademark is in the hands of the people who really ought to own it.
Second, it means you can all end your hate mail campaigns against Ultracade and David Foley. Comments here which attack either will be deleted and users will be banned. There's really no sense in yelling and screaming; let's just all be adults about the matter (I realize that it's hard for some in this crowd, but please try).
Third, however, it means that some responsibility comes along with owning the trademark. In order to use the trademark, we are going to have to set up some rules under which it can be used. This is likely going to come in the form of, simply, "You must request explicit permission to use the MAME trademark."
Of course, permission will be given to many legitimate uses (still have to ask, though!) But there is indeed a growing commercial sector that is abusing the MAME name to make claims that aren't true without violating the law ("Play 1000s of arcade games!" -- yeah right, show me your license for that), and quite frankly, many of the MAME team members are as against that as Mr. Foley is.
We'll be announcing more details shortly, but the most likely end result is going to be: if you want to use the MAME name, you've got to get rid of your illegal ROM links, your information on how to buy/download illegal ROMs, and your claims that anything you sell will let you play 100s or 1000s of games (unless you've legitimately licensed them).
There's no need to twist the knife... isn't there a high road to be taken somewhere?
There's no need to twist the knife... isn't there a high road to be taken somewhere?
Boycotting everything to do with Foley is the high road.
I got my local CostCo to remove an Arcade Legends machine.
Jumping into shark infested waters here, but I can't let this post go un-replied to:If Walmart was selling something you didn't think they should be selling say "Home Abortion Kits". Would you boycot Walmart, or talk to them to try to get them to stop selling them. Personally I would try to get them to stop selling them, and if they refused then I would boycot Walmart.I got my local CostCo to remove an Arcade Legends machine. I'm currently working on contacting "higher up" in that company to get them removed completely (or at least have no more orders placed).
I'm concerned here. Boycotting is one thing, even creating a boycott web site listing factual information is acceptable.
Without *complete details* of what "got my local CostCo to remove"... means, I think the above statement implies a line has been crossed and vigilante actions such as this are NO BETTER than what DF was doing to "competetors".
Someone's active "working on contacting 'higher up' ... to get them removed" implies UNLAWFUL RESTRAINT OF TRADE. Exactly what DF was attempting to do himself.
Two wrongs DO NOT make a right. Boycott fine. Comments and actions eluded to by similar comments to the above, I believe legally, cross the line from an individual consumers freedom of choice and illegal trade disruption.
Fight fair... don't fight his way or you may just find yourself thrown into a lawsuit yourself, and further disruption to your gaming platform through legal issues.
Comparing Ultracade to home abortion kits... hahaha ;D
Man I just shot coke out of my nose.
-Goz
CrazyCooter has a valid point. I think you guys must not shop at Costco. They are built on customer service, and they want your feedback on ANYTHING they carry in their store.
Why bother comparing Ultracade to the home abortion kit? You don't have to compare it to anything. If you don't like Ultracade, Costco wants to know why. If it is a big enough problem (and apparently it is) then they will stop carrying it.
Aaron Giles' Home Page
March 16, 2005
Some basic answers
A lot of the worrying and questions on the previous post are silly. I'm closing down comments on that for now.
Answers to the obvious stuff:
1. You can discuss MAME all you want without putting a (tm) next to it. You'll notice that you don't have to put a (tm) next to Windows if you talk about it on a message board, now do you?
2. If you currently sell ROMs or ROM distribution services, you're already breaking the law. There is nothing new about the trademark apart from the fact that you can't use the name "MAME" to advertise your illegal services.
3. There is currently discussion going on around the MAME license. Getting the devs to agree on something like this is like herding cats, so it will take a while for some clarity to prevail there.
That's it for now. Go about your lives. Stop the hand wringing over what this all means. When official information becomes available, a lot of this will be made clear. Unfortunately this stuff takes time. Be patient.
Buy it now price is... $399.00!Apples and oranges. First, Ultracade isn't the seller here. Second, he's selling Jungle King with a Commercial Use license, not a home use license.
He said before he would charge under $10, I guess we could safely assume he'll be somewhere between $10 & $300 for each title.::)
You can't go by what that auction is asking. They *routinely* overprice everything they put on eBay.
Yeah but now the thread has been moved to EE so it will only attract the gutter level individuals of byoac.I read through the 6-page thread over at VPF.
Hey, look at this. My prediction has already to come true. :o
So go file a lawsuit already.
I read the other day that a "Wrongful birth" lawsuit was filed because a woman had a healthy baby born because the mother didn't know she was pregnant. I thought it was far fetched, but maybe Mr. Foleys parents should do the same. ;DTypically, wrongful birth lawsuits occur when the mother tries to have an abortion and the baby survives.
I read the other day that a "Wrongful birth" lawsuit was filed because a woman had a healthy baby born because the mother didn't know she was pregnant. I thought it was far fetched, but maybe Mr. Foleys parents should do the same. ;DTypically, wrongful birth lawsuits occur when the mother tries to have an abortion and the baby survives.
Holy Thread-Resurrection Batman! :o
Recently, there has been some confusion as a third party attempted to register the name "MAME" as a trademark. This issue has been resolved. Nicola Salmoria has filed to trademark MAME. The third party who originally filed for the trademark has abandoned their claim.
What does this mean? Well, it certainly doesn't mean the completely unchecked freedom to do whatever you want with the name MAME. If you want to use it, you should follow the guidelines below and then ask permission to do so.
First, you should examine the new MAME license, under which it is prohibited to sell or use MAME commercially.
With the trademark, this goes one step further.
Products or services that wish to use the name MAME or a derivative thereof must obtain explicit permission from the trademark owner (Nicola) to do so in all cases.
In most cases, if a product or service has a legitimate use, abides by the MAME license, and adheres to the spirit of MAME and the guidelines expressed in the About MAME section, obtaining permission should not be difficult. If you believe you have a legitimate need to use the MAME name, please contact the team using the contact form to request permission.
If you are interested in helping stamp out unauthorized use of the trademark, use the contact form to report abuses.
- David Foley is out of the biz (fired by GlobalVR about a month ago)
- David Foley is out of the biz (fired by GlobalVR about a month ago)
Wow. There's some news I wasn't aware of.