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Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: fredster on January 02, 2005, 09:55:48 pm

Title: What is a "positional gun"
Post by: fredster on January 02, 2005, 09:55:48 pm

The guns on Terminator 2 are not optical guns, they are basically joysticks. Is that what a "positional gun" is?

Games like T2 and perhaps Operation wolf, are these guns just a joystick with a fake gun mounted on it or is the control actually different? Are they analog or what?

Title: Re: What is a "positional gun"
Post by: JCKnife on January 02, 2005, 10:05:38 pm

Quote from: fredster on January 02, 2005, 09:55:48 pm

are these guns just a joystick with a fake gun mounted on it? Are they analog or what?

yes and yes.

Title: Re: What is a "positional gun"
Post by: paigeoliver on January 03, 2005, 09:43:04 am

Operation Wolf is really a lightgun, although it is mounted like a positional gun.

Title: Re: What is a "positional gun"
Post by: fredster on January 03, 2005, 12:38:55 pm

I have a T2, but I didn't tear into the guns except to service the button.   Do they have pots in them instead of digital switches?

So you can't use them in a Mame project unless you use something called "analog" mame?

Title: Re: What is a "positional gun"
Post by: SirPoonga on January 03, 2005, 01:17:56 pm

you can use any joystick that is pot based in mame.  You need to interface it so windows see it as a joystick.  This is easy to do for gameport joysticks, get the gameport specs and wire up correctly.  For USB you will need to hack a usb joystick.

Title: Re: What is a "positional gun"
Post by: Kremmit on January 03, 2005, 01:38:06 pm

1up already hacked T2 guns to MAME:
(Suprised nobody posted this already)
http://1uparcade.robandmitsue.com/projects-t2guns.html

Title: Re: What is a "positional gun"
Post by: Lilwolf on January 03, 2005, 07:58:31 pm

or go with an AKI board http://dave.bit2000.com/aki.html

these do a great job.  I have one controlling two T2 guns.

Title: Re: What is a "positional gun"
Post by: fredster on January 04, 2005, 12:34:51 am

What is a "dual strike" board? ???

Title: Re: What is a "positional gun"
Post by: Kremmit on January 04, 2005, 01:45:30 am

It's the circuit board inside a Microsoft Dual Strike game controller.  You buy a cheap Dual Strike controller on Ebay, then gut it and wire your t2 guns to it's circuit board.

Look here:  (1up's site again!)
http://www.1uparcade.com/projects-dualstrike.html

He's hacking a Dual Strike to use a Star Wars type yoke, but it's basically the same trick for any analog (potentiometer-based) control, including your T2 guns.

The AKI Lilwolf mentioned might cost a little more, but would probably be easier.

Title: Re: What is a "positional gun"
Post by: Lilwolf on January 04, 2005, 08:24:25 am

btw, I've done both...

They both have very similar output (so close I never noticed any difference). 

The wireing is MUCH easier on the AKI.  Expect it working in 10 minutes or less... 

Its major advantage is it handles two joysticks (and an extra throddle axis).  So you can get two guns running together. 

It also has 14 inputs for buttons.  This might be nice if you are having a dedicated T2 cabinet so you can have all your coin ups and start buttons ect working.

The bad side.  Your frontend needs to handle inputs from a joystick or you need an extra piece of software to convert the joysticks -> keypresses.

You can hotswap joysticks on your AKI.  But its not officially supported.  I haven't found any ways to swap between calibrations either.  And after trying / messing with things... last I checked I couldn't get any calibrations to set in windows 98 (but not an AKI bug... and 98 + messing with registry bug... so ignore this)....

No the advantages for the dual strikes.

Can be cheaper.. If you only have one gun it is cheaper.  With shipping mine ended up being the same price as 1/2 the aki...  But  I didn't read the fine print :(

They are EASY to hack 1/2 of it.  One pot is off on a wire cable so no soldering for 1 pot and the inputs.   So you have 3 hard solders...  Took me 1/2 hour to do it all.... And I SUCK at on board soldering...  1/2 the time it comes out looking nice... the other 1/2 I'm not sure it didn't fry the board.

Anyway... All in all.  I would say get an AKI board if you want two joysticks... And Dual Strike if you find a deal on ebay and have the time.  You will be happier with an AKI in either case... but the extra 15 bucks might not be worth it for the soldering experts out there.

Title: Re: What is a "positional gun"
Post by: Minwah on January 04, 2005, 08:53:47 am

I haven't hacked a Dual Strike but I give another vote for the AKI - easy to wire and works brilliantly :)

Title: Re: What is a "positional gun"
Post by: Chris on January 04, 2005, 11:19:35 am

Quote from: Minwah on January 04, 2005, 08:53:47 am

I haven't hacked a Dual Strike but I give another vote for the AKI - easy to wire and works brilliantly :)

So are you going to make MAMEWah accept input from it?  :)

I put gamepad support into WinCab but I don't think a single person uses it.

Title: Re: What is a "positional gun"
Post by: Minwah on January 04, 2005, 11:24:35 am

Quote from: Chris on January 04, 2005, 11:19:35 am

So are you going to make MAMEWah accept input from it?  :)

It's been there since v1.5 ;)

Hardly anyone uses it to my knowledge, and to be honest in analog mode* it seems pretty flaky.  Analog devices can be used in normal 'digital' mode and they work fine however.

* analog mode meaning the more you move the stick/wheel/whatever the faster the list scrolls.

Edit: just wanted to make clear the analog/digital modes I refer to are within MAMEWAH, not the AKI itself.