The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: Trimoor on December 22, 2004, 10:16:01 am
-
Has anyone looked at the LPT switch interface?
One of the latest project announcements used it for their control.
(Or did you skip over it just because it was in Portuguese?)
It's an extremely cheap interface that allows you to connect 60 inputs over the parallel port without ghosting or bloacking. 60!
It's too bad the drivers are windoze only.
Here is the circuit:
(http://www.arcadebr.com.br/tutoriais/lptswitch/LPTswitch.gif)
Edit:
Here is a translated link:
Translated (http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arcadebr.com.br%2Fmodules.php%3Fname%3DContent%26pa%3Dshowpage%26pid%3D29%26osCsid%3D7637a9bebacef8a9687492710cbc8580&lp=pt_en)
-
Are you sure there is no ghosting?
I've had a quick look and it seems to me that say buttons 1,2 and 6 are held down - then there would be ghosting for button 7? (for example) or am I missing something? (quite possible)
-
If you remember the KE series keyboard encoders, some of them use matricies.
Ghosting can be avoided by sequentially scanning the matrix instead of waiting for a button to be pressed--interrupt vs. polling.
From the site: (translated)
it does not have problem of ghosting (keyboard keys ghost), as in hack of keyboard
Here is a translated link:
Translated (http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arcadebr.com.br%2Fmodules.php%3Fname%3DContent%26pa%3Dshowpage%26pid%3D29%26osCsid%3D7637a9bebacef8a9687492710cbc8580&lp=pt_en)
-
Hey that's pretty interesting. I've found the original site, that guy made a home made cockpit. This site also contains the documentation for building the interface
http://users.skynet.be/plipke/PF50HC/
BYOCP :)
-
Ohh I've found out that the drivers are open source, so If some one can port it to DOS that will help a bunch :)
-
Linux too please :)
-
I started doing a lot of research on this when I read this post. A DOS driver is available on this very website...at least one you can hack.
http://www.arcadecontrols.com/Mirrors/www.csc.tntech.edu/~jbyork/default.htm
If you modify circuits.ini and sneskey.ini you can create a custom dos controller config.
At least logically this should happen. I haven't been able to build a working test model in the last 3 hours. give me a week and I'll let you know. :)
-
If you remember the KE series keyboard encoders, some of them use matricies.
Ghosting can be avoided by sequentially scanning the matrix instead of waiting for a button to be pressed--interrupt vs. polling.
Aha, thanks for that.....
-
Has anyone tried this yet?
I'll build one, if anyone can give me a dos compilation.
This is a major gap in my cabinet construction. I can't wire up the controls until I decide between the LPT switch or the keywiz. I would prefer the LPT switch.
I don't want to start building this until I know there will be dos or linux software for it.
-
yeah, it'll be nice to see that someone tried it out :)
-
If you remember the KE series keyboard encoders, some of them use matricies.
Ghosting can be avoided by sequentially scanning the matrix instead of waiting for a button to be pressed--interrupt vs. polling.
From the site: (translated)
it does not have problem of ghosting (keyboard keys ghost), as in hack of keyboard
Here is a translated link:
Translated (http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arcadebr.com.br%2Fmodules.php%3Fname%3DContent%26pa%3Dshowpage%26pid%3D29%26osCsid%3D7637a9bebacef8a9687492710cbc8580&lp=pt_en)
Unfortunately, I don't believe that's true. The only way to avoid ghosting is to use diodes.
-
Trimoor, I've bought all the materials to build one. I'll give it a try this weekend and let you know how everything did. I hope it works, 'cause it seems to be a very simple device to build, and cheap too.
-
what does the red arrow with a bar pointing down mean in teh diagram?
-
what does the red arrow with a bar pointing down mean in teh diagram?
DIODES
-
thanks. what about the little yellow dots after teh diodes?
-
thanks. what about the little yellow dots after teh diodes?
Nothing. I don't know why they put that in there.
And before you ask, the black lines are the wire connections. ;D
Brained, it's not the materials so much as the software. I refuse to put windows on my cab, but no one has a dos or Linux version yet. It would be nice if some programmer would do this, seeing how it's open source...
-
thanks. what about the little yellow dots after teh diodes?
Nothing.
-
anyone built this yet?
I started on mine tonight, just labeling wires and what not. I only bought 10 diodes just to check for ghosting.
Anyone have any results with this yet?
-
I went quick and dirty and got results. Just one button so I don't know about the ghosting issue. The driver works well and is very complete. I am definitely going to go ahead and build a more complete set of inputs now though.
-
OK then, I'm going to go out and get teh parts to make a 30 button circuit and see where it leads me
-
Ok everyone... This will be fine for a one player setup...
but take a look at the diagram... and tell me what happens when this happens...
Assume player 1 is buttons 1-10, player 2 is 11 - 20..
-
thats a good questions....and I can only say, I'll tell ya when its built, lol
-
I'm guessing it repeatedly scans every switch in the matrix, avoiding this problem.
Besides, button 11 is on pin 4 while button 1 and 2 are on pin 3. What's the problem?
In any case, we'll find out soon.
-
Just ordered all the diodes i need for this, just gotta get a few more terminal blocks.
Question. Whats teh best way to test for ghosting or interference? Should i just rig all 60 buttons combinations to one button press and see what teh results are?
-
The driver being used sees the first 30 positions as joy1 and the second 30 positions as joy2. So the driver might at least reduce some ghosting, if any exists, by guaranteeing that two players will have dedicated lines at the port.
What would be a good way of testing for ghosting. If someone could say what condition might show some let us know and I'll hook those up and give em a push.
-
When i get this hooked up, im going to use the "joy to key" program and assign all buttons a character value so i can test it in Notepad.....I think
-
better way to test it is in the joystick config.
you can press 10 buttons... and try adding one more.
notepad will not test much... just that it got the initial tick... not that its held... (will test for ghosts but so will the joystick calibration page)
-
Well, I finally tried this, and for the most part it works.
I only have four buttons attatched right now, and they're all on the same matrix row, so I can't test ghosting yet.
I can't even test multiple buttons. The program crashes as soon as I press any button, but it manages to show a keypress before it dies.
If anyone can provide me with working software (preferably dos), I can test this more thoroughly.
I used the program from brained's link:
http://users.skynet.be/plipke/PF50HC/
-
This seems like an awful lot of headache to save yourself $20.
Just get a KeyWiz Eco, solder the dang thing up, and KNOW you're not going to get any ghosting.
I don't want any MAY work/SOMEtime/KINDA solutions when it comes to the inputs on my cab.
I want to KNOW that, when I press a button, the CAB knows I pressed a button.
-
But if you need more than 32 inputs, or are a total cheepskake like me, it still seems like the best solution.
-
I'll skimp on the COMPUTER before I skimp on the controls.
-
Well, I finally tried this, and for the most part it works.
I only have four buttons attatched right now, and they're all on the same matrix row, so I can't test ghosting yet.
I can't even test multiple buttons. The program crashes as soon as I press any button, but it manages to show a keypress before it dies.
If anyone can provide me with working software (preferably dos), I can test this more thoroughly.
I used the program from brained's link:
http://users.skynet.be/plipke/PF50HC/
trimoor did you try to download the drivers from the brazilian site.
-
It's working perfectly now. I installed a program called "PPJoy", the one used on the Brazilian site.
Here is a link to the official site:
PPJoy (http://www.geocities.com/deonvdw/Docs/PPJoyMain.htm)
The program is pretty impressive. It supports all the directpad pro interfaces, plus a mouse->joystick converter. It can even derive joystick controls from a dll.
I don't want any MAY work/SOMEtime/KINDA solutions when it comes to the inputs on my cab.
I bet the same thing was said about the keyboard encoders when they were in the beta stage too.
Just you wait. ('enry 'iggens)
-
Hi, guys!
The LPT-switch, works!!
My portugesse friend, told me.
It's the easiest way to achieve a good interface for our controls.
The only "bad" thing about this great interface, it's only for win, not Ms-dos (i Think there's no dos drivers available)
BTW, there's a link (a spanish forum), when me and other guys, working on it.
http://www.forumcommunity.net/?t=1104461&st=15
I made the interface this weekend, and only rest to put the diodes 1N4148 on it.
By default, the directional arrows for each joystick are:
Connection number 1 to 4 are the directions of player 1, the rest of the connections are from 5 to 30, these connections will be buttons (you may remap all the functions, on the mame's options)
From 31 to 34 connections are the directions for player 2, and the rest of connections, 35 to 60, will be the buttons of 2 player.
And yes, the 4700ohm resistor is not needed, only need the 1N4148 diodes to avoid the "gosthkey" effect.
Cheers.
P.D.: Sorry for my english again :P, I hope that this text will be understandable.
-
From the looks of the driver, the connections can be mapped to any joystick buttons/axis desired. The only limitation is that 1-30 is for joystick 1 only, and 31-60 are for joystick 2 only.
This means the connections cannot be completely random and still assign buttons however you like. Not a problem in MAME, but it might be for other games.
I didn't need resistors either. Don't worry about what part number of diodes to use, any of the small glass switching diodes will work. Just don't use 60Hz rectifier diodes.
Don't worry about your english Lord Hiryu. You have successfully managed to convey your message using our atrociously illogically confusing language.
Here is a english translated link to the forum:
forum (http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forumcommunity.net%2F%3Ft%3D1104461%26st%3D15&lp=es_en)
If this interface takes off, we really should give our thanks to the author of the PPJoy program.
-
One thing i didn't understand, those it support four players??? That wasn't very clear to me...
Also, are there any adaptors that can change it from D-SUB to PS/2, or USB??? It would make it a bit easier if you don't need a gameport to use the interface...
-
It supports 60 individual inputs, which MAME can assign in any way it chooses, so yes.
It doesn't use the game/midi port, it uses the parallel/printer port. There are devices that convert parallel to USB, but these are made for printers and usually don't support the full parallel port protocol. I'll try it with my ethernet print server and let you know.
-
still waitin on teh 100 pk of diodes i ordered.
-
It supports 60 individual inputs, which MAME can assign in any way it chooses, so yes.
It doesn't use the game/midi port, it uses the parallel/printer port.
-
The first person to get it working.
Do me a favor... Test the hidden buttons..
Force press all of player one buttons...
Then unpress one. Make sure that it works well. (ie, player one buttons work well even when all the others are pressed.
Then presss all on player one and all on player two... Then unpress one in player two. Add one.
I'm worried that it will work in most cases... But some it will drop some presses.
I already have a MK64... But I keep thinking about building another cabinet. I was planning on just getting a small encoder... but I might be tempted in trying one myself..
-
any idea onhow to test this without wiring up 60 individual buttons and figuring out a way to press them all at once?
-
sup Lord Hyriu, I've sent the link to playjodete!! :)...
Well did you get the diodes?? Did it work???
I've got all the materials, but time is running so fast right now 'cause I'm moving. I think I'll be able to put the darn thing together tonight. I'll let you know what happens...
-
any idea onhow to test this without wiring up 60 individual buttons and figuring out a way to press them all at once?
Well you can wire them all closed, closing the circuit, but i dunno what'll happen... it's a lot easier than wiring a hole bunch o buttons...
-
any idea onhow to test this without wiring up 60 individual buttons and figuring out a way to press them all at once?
Well you can wire them all closed, closing the circuit, but i dunno what'll happen... it's a lot easier than wiring a hole bunch o buttons...
Say he wire one button to inputs 1->29, another to 30, another to 31->59, and another to 60...
Would they all burn and make a big exsplosion when he'll push them?!?! :o
Sorry... I'm a bit tired...
But won't it damage something if he wires one button to a few inputs??
-
i can see it breaking anything....but it just may not work, dunno.
-
This looks cool - really cool.
So, has anyone got this working or not?
Has the ghosting issue been worked out?
-
I'll have the circuit built by teh weekend, But i dont have any switches handy right now. I'll have to buy some to test it.
-
Cool bananna's Hoagie, hope it works for you. Looks like a cheap way to connect controls to the pc. I tried to download the PPJoy program, but couldnt get to the download page, I tried to register at the site but it looked like the page kept refreshing.
Would anyone mind emailing it to me?
-
Hi guys!
I finished my interface and tested it a few minutes ago.
And as Dr.Frankstein says "It works...it's alive!!"
Now, I'm working on the office, so only I tested one game (Ghouls'n Ghost with Mame32plus), and all the buttons works OK.
The response of the buttons is fine and quickly as the I-pac.
I've not find any ghost issue, pressing 7 buttons at once, but at dinner time, will test it with StreetFighter Zero 3 and KOF97 (to see how works with fast fighting games)
At the moment, only say one word, OUTSTANDING!!
Cheers.
-
Cool bananna's Hoagie, hope it works for you. Looks like a cheap way to connect controls to the pc. I tried to download the PPJoy program, but couldnt get to the download page, I tried to register at the site but it looked like the page kept refreshing.
Would anyone mind emailing it to me?
got an email address?
-
Hi guys!
I finished my interface and tested it a few minutes ago.
And as Dr.Frankstein says "It works...it's alive!!"
Now, I'm working on the office, so only I tested one game (Ghouls'n Ghost with Mame32plus), and all the buttons works OK.
The response of the buttons is fine and quickly as the I-pac.
I've not find any ghost issue, pressing 7 buttons at once, but at dinner time, will test it with StreetFighter Zero 3 and KOF97 (to see how works with fast fighting games)
At the moment, only say one word, OUTSTANDING!!
Cheers.
awesome, how did the fighting games work out?
-
Hi Hoagie_one.
I finally tested the SF3 and KOF97 in my house, and....I only have to say one thing......Go quickly and do it one for yourself NOW!!!
It works fantastic!!!.
Take a look at these screenshots:
http://www.forumcommunity.net/?t=1104461&st=105#lastpost
The forum is in Spanish..:(..sorry.
I don't find any conflict with the buttons, pressing all at once.
Is the easiest and cheapest way to do a interface for ours CPOs.
Cheers.
-
to cool
-
WOW!!! Outstanding!!!
I'm almost done with mine, last night I assembled everything in a nice way. Now I just need to solder the diodes!! :D Today I'll give it a Try I Hope...
-
Hi Hoagie_one.
I finally tested the SF3 and KOF97 in my house, and....I only have to say one thing......Go quickly and do it one for yourself NOW!!!
It works fantastic!!!.
Take a look at these screenshots:
http://www.forumcommunity.net/?t=1104461&st=105#lastpost
The forum is in Spanish..:(..sorry.
I don't find any conflict with the buttons, pressing all at once.
Is the easiest and cheapest way to do a interface for ours CPOs.
Cheers.
Hey did you use some driver to map de joybuttons to Keystrokes, I've noticed that in the picture in of the interface @ marcianitos.com .... can you clear this up please...
-
Hi brained.....como estamos!!!XD
Well, I use the PPjoy program to drive the interface.
BTW, I think that you can also use the SnesKey driver.
I supose that you talk about this:
(http://img116.exs.cx/img116/2687/combinaciones9li.th.jpg) (http://img116.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img116&image=combinaciones9li.jpg)
Sorry....spanish again, guys!! :P
You can list more buttons, but for now, I only need a few.
Cheers.
-
No te averg
-
Yo hablo espanol un poco
well not really. I had 3 years of spanish in high school. 11 years ago. I remember very little.
BTW, i got my diodes today, So I'm going to build the switch. Gonna build it so it can use all 60 buttons, eventhough the project im working on only requires 45. If your gonna do it, do it right....right?
Side question, to be sure. Teh flow of the diode current follows the arrow correct?
-
Yo hablo espanol un poco
well not really. I had 3 years of spanish in high school. 11 years ago. I remember very little.
BTW, i got my diodes today, So I'm going to build the switch. Gonna build it so it can use all 60 buttons, eventhough the project im working on only requires 45. If your gonna do it, do it right....right?
Side question, to be sure. Teh flow of the diode current follows the arrow correct?
Espa
-
I'll see how much i can get done tonight with it.
-
This looks interesting. I took a look at the link (the translated one is dead) and I found this: http://users.skynet.be/plipke/PF50HC/LPTswitch/index2.html
Something written about it in English. Gomen if someone posted this and I missed it.
If this works, it'll solve a lot of problems =D
-
This looks interesting. I took a look at the link (the translated one is dead) and I found this: http://users.skynet.be/plipke/PF50HC/LPTswitch/index2.html
Something written about it in English. Gomen if someone posted this and I missed it.
If this works, it'll solve a lot of problems =D
I was about to post it last night (+2 GMT - i live in israel [but i'm moving to the US in 7 days]), but i was tired so i went to bed...
Me-sa-so-laaazy.... ;)
Anybody knows something about it? It seems like a "development" of the first one...
-
BTW, this (http://www.dribin.org/dave/keyboard/one_html/) might be helpful too...
(if someone wants to design their own circuit, this might come in handy... ;))
-
I just finally noticed this thread.
The circuit in the original post looks pretty much like what we use in flight simulation to take inputs from massive numbers of aircraft circuit breakers (several hundred is not uncommon). Any ghosting or blocking in an FAA-certified sim would be unacceptable and we don't have any issues. The important factor is that you have one diode per switch.
Putting a resistor on each row and column would be a good idea to protect your parallel port hardware. I don't know what they can handle for current.
That said, if I needed another encoder I would probably buy another IPAC.
-
Hey I've finished my interface last night, but I didn't have the chance to try it out, I might post pics and my results tonight. ;D
cheers
-
awesome. I had the parts out to get started, but teh wife and child had different plans, lol
-
Sorry I missed a few days. I was being held in the Ministry of Love....
I got my interface working properly, but I'm having a couple of problems with the PPJoy driver.
I wired up the buttons randomly, and for the most part the driver allows me to assign them in any way I choose, but it forces a distinction between joy1 and joy2 at inputs 1-30 and 31-60. It will not allow me to assign input 43 to joy1 or input 15 to joy2. This is not a problem for MAME, but it can be for other games.
I have no ghosting/blocking problems, but then again I only have one column wired up.
PPJoy does not translate the buttons into keyboard presses. It translates them into a windows game controller.
The LPTswitch program and SNESkey translate the buttons into keyboard strokes, but these programs crash on me.
I think the best approach is for someone to make the mapping files for SNESkey. It supports both DOS and windoze, and it's very lightweight. PPJoy is great, but it's windoze only, and the developer is no longer working on it.
I'll try more configs and let you know how it works out.
It's impressive that two of my ideas have actually caught on. Now I can reap the glory..... ;D
-
I did it and It works!! :D. I just tested a 1 player 6 button config and it worked great.... when a get my new hole saw (again) I can drill them holes in my metal panel and get going. I hope this darn hole saw gets here quick, so I can try the interface with 2 player sf-neogeo layout!!
GREAT FIND TRIMOOR!!!
-
Nice to see that works, Brained!!
I spected to see how works with your 2 player layout.:)
Trimoor, don't worry about the "little" issue of the 2 players, rewired the conections are easy to do.
Pins 2-3-4-5-6-7 are the ground for palyer 1.
Pins 8-9-1-14-16-17 are the ground for player 2.
Btw, I hope that you find a program to manage the interface on Ms-dos as Ppjoy do on Win.
Good luck on your search!
Cheers.!
-
I made a nice write-up of the LPT Switch on my web site if anyone wants to look.
http://www.trimoor.com/lpt_switch/index.htm
I sent a news item to saint, so it should appear on the homepage soon.
Lord Hiryu, the problem is a little more difficult than that. I have the player 1 controls wired to a single column, not row, so it is rather difficult to change them. I'm hoping someone can make a SNESKey config file for the LPT Switch, so can be made into a keyboard for DOS and windows, eliminating my problem.
-
Here's some pics of teh switch I built.
-
Uh, Hoagie_one, I don't quite know how to tell you this, but if that little diagram of a diode you drew on the printout is what you used, then you wired it up wrong.
(http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/images/diocon.gif)
From the looks of your pictures, you have the diodes in backwards. ???
Also, you might want to put a strain relief on the cable. Having it pull on a bunch of little wires is not good.
-
Uh, Hoagie_one, I don't quite know how to tell you this, but if that little diagram of a diode you drew on the printout is what you used, then you wired it up wrong.
(http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/images/diocon.gif)
From the looks of your pictures, you have the diodes in backwards. ???
Also, you might want to put a strain relief on the cable.
-
You can get a pack of 50 from radio shack cheaply enough. Asking them to find diodes for you would still be faster than shipping. (but not by much)
You said you tested a few connections and they worked? I wonder how that could be.
-
I was gonna say, hey if it's working, then maybe he did something right.
-
It probably worked for individual presses, but i bet as soon as i hit more than one on the same line...it'll crap itself.
I'm depressed about it now....maybe next weekend
-
Hoagie_one, I remember when I was testing that the interface wouldn't register anything when the diodes were connected backwards. Try it a bit more. Maybe it really does work.
Has anyone gotten the interface working with anything but windows?
Can anyone tell me how this could be configured using SNESKey?
I want to know before I start trying to make linux drivers.
-
I get button presses, but it registers several presses as the same button...dammit
Some buttons dont register at all.
3 hours of work.....very irritating.
-
Hoagie, Diodes only let flow current one way. So if it works it's ok... the problem with the button pressing various simultaneous inputs must be wiring... double check the wiring. It can be very confusing!!
Ohh, just in case, The black stripe in the diode must go towards the wire terminal connector..
Btw, just unsolder your diodes, flip the ones that are backward and solder them again,... you don't have to throw them away....
edit: added another suggestion.
-
Btw, just unsolder your diodes, flip the ones that are backward and solder them again,... you don't have to throw them away....
Too much work for $1.50 in parts
On top of that, I also believe i mislabeled my lpt wires.
-
your right, but remember to get yourself a multimeter to ensure things work ok.... or simple makeyourself a poormans continuity tester to ensure that the wires go to the desired pins.......
-
i got a multimeter. I just labeled all the pins backwards because i didnt realize teh diagram shows the back of a computer and not the connector. Mirror image of what i wired.
This also explains why some contacts worked and others didnt, because i inadvertently rigged up proper connnections by reversing the diodes.
oh well.
-
jeez!! :S.... that's why I didn't used a hacked printer cable. I built just everything from start. Remember that DB 25's have the pin labels, you must look close to avoid mistakes... :police:
-
jeez!! :S.... that's why I didn't used a hacked printer cable. I built just everything from start. Remember that DB 25's have the pin labels, you must look close to avoid mistakes... :police:
Is it possible to use a hacked printer cable though? I was thinking of using one to save on the soldering. Im not a wizard at it, so I dont enjoy too much of it in one sitting.
Anyone know any good soldering tutes? LOL
-
im using a printer cable, it'll work fine....as long as you get your pin #'s right, lol
I butcher all my soldering BTW. Big globs of metal goo. nothing asthetic here.
-
So, I look at the plug from the side that the cable is <b>not</b> on to work out the pin numbers from the diagram?
Or is this round the wrong way? I just want to be REALLY sure, cause i'd probally do the same thing as you hoagie.
-
http://www.loop-back.com/rs232_std.html
diagram at the bottom has it listed weather you are looking at the male or female pins
i had it backwrads
-
http://www.loop-back.com/rs232_std.html
diagram at the bottom has it listed weather you are looking at the male or female pins
i had it backwrads
Ahh, that makes it much clearer for me, thanks for the link
-
anyways, DB25's have the pin numbers in the front, if you look closely you can see them.... that'll save you a lot of mistakes
-
Wow I should have told you guys about this before.
I originally used a keyboard encoder (see pic) and a mess of wires to send the inputs to my mame acrade machine. I found the LPT-Switch and made a small circuit board (see pic) to allow all 60ish of the inputs to be availible, in case I wanted to add more stuff later.
The board is the type that has holes in it but no tracks, cheap from most electronics shops. The header bloacks are 10 pin types that used to be used for the serial headers on motherboards.
The work took some time but was worth it in the end. As I have already added some extra features, keys, which would have been a pain in my keyboard encoder days.
Now my next project will be an LCD screen that displays the button configurations, start screens, etc of the game (need suitable multi monitor interface); and/or some nice voice recognition to select games from the menu (limited success so far, using XP's voice stuff). 8)
-
yours looks alot sexsayer than mine does. but as long as it works, im fine with it.
-
I found the LPT-Switch and made a small circuit board (see pic) to allow all 60ish of the inputs to be availible, in case I wanted to add more stuff later.
...
Now my next project will be an LCD screen that displays the button configurations, start screens, etc of the game (need suitable multi monitor interface); and/or some nice voice recognition to select games from the menu (limited success so far, using XP's voice stuff). 8)
Cool. Keep us updated on your projects, and welcome to BYOAC!
-
I don't suppose anyone can get this working on a non-windows system yet?
-
I don't suppose anyone can get this working on a non-windows system yet?
I just built a snes type circuit parallel switch for dweebs0r. He said he has a way to get it to work under linux. May want to ask him what prog he's using.
-
Well, I finished re-wiring this tonight, and all teh inputs register correctly. If I find time tomorrow, I'll rig up a street fighter panel with the LPT switch and see how well it works out.
-
Rigged up a street fighter panel and it works great. Smooth response.
I now just have to test the switches that share a common wire to see if there is no interference. I dont expect there to be because each input registers separatly, but i wot be sure till i put it in a play test.
-
Anyone out there willing to port the software to DOS or Linux? I really hate windows.
-
Good luck with that....wish i could help ya there.
-
Hoagie, Did you test the interface?? how it went?
-
I just have a couple more tests to run on it to be 100% sure of it, but so far, It works perfectly.
-
Well, I've done everything i can think of except hook up 60 buttons and hit them all at once. This thing works great. I'm just going to neaten up the wires and probably sell it on the buy\sell board.
I dont really need 60 inputs.
-
If its for sale, how much would it be?
-
$35 shipped. That covers all the parts and some of the time I put into it...just to see if I could do it.
If anyone is interested, let me know.
-
US im assuming? You should take a few pictures of how you built it too, it would make a nice tutorial :)
-
I drew up a picture of how the connections work.
http://www.susans-spot.com/LPT_Diagram.JPG
-
Hey,
If I can get enough people interested in this than I can make a circuit board and send out to have a few (Say 25+) produced. I read this thread today at work and have been thinking about this for the past 5 hours.
Let me know if anyone is interested, I'm just looking for another fun PCB Project to play around with.
Also - In order to keep this board as cheap as possible I would say that the buyer would have to buy and install all of the diodes, screw terminals and 25 Pin connection on their own. At that point I think the boards would only sell for about $5 a board.
Thanks
Charlie
-
what would be on the board because thats all this switch is..is diodes, screw downs and db25?
-
The circuit is so simple I don't see how a PCB would facilitate construction. Then again, if people buy your LED driver board, there must be a market for it.
You should probably include the DB-25 header. They can be difficult to find.
I have started on a Linux driver if anyone cares.
-
I have started on a Linux driver if anyone cares.
awesome
-
I have started on a Linux driver if anyone cares.
When did we start spelling DOS
L i n u x ? ;)
One of these days I'll have to pick up programming again. Where's my box of punch cards...
-
Punch cards? Slow down there, fancy boy! Back in my day, we had to hire a bunch of foreign kids to remember a set of numbers, and type them in real fast when we poked them with a pointy stick.
It worked great until one of the kids got electrocuted by the conveniently placed bare power cable. I kept poking and poking, but he wouldn't move. Eventually I got bored and left.
-
The circuit is so simple I don't see how a PCB would facilitate construction.
-
im interested in seeing how it looks. Hey even if you manufactured the board with diodes, I gotta think it will be 60 inputs on the cheap.
-
I think you should sell the whole kit!! board, diodes, cables, hookups!! :)
*edit* spelling
-
I think you should sell the whole kit!! board, diodes, cables, hookups!! :)
seriously, might as well make some cash. These things work fine and for the cost, its gotta be beter than buying an ipac4....cost wize that is.
-
Ok, You twisted my leg, I'll do it. I'll let you guys know the rough prices tonight/tomorrow for just the kits. I just needed a reason to order a board for myself too, but paying $90+ for a single board was just too much money. The unit cost of 25+ boards is drastically cheaper.
-
Yeah buying in quantities is better because the company charges you mostly for the designing and silkscreening of boards. If you have an order of 25 boards, they already have the silkscreen and solder layout ready, so they just produce another copy. If one board's screening development is $15 then all of the board are usually around $20.
I did alot of research on this as I wanted to develop my little LED driver board (its not what yours is) but once I got down to finding the market and drawing the board out, I got lazy. I spent a few hours drawing but I can't fit the parts in reasonably without solderring wires all across the board because each input needs two outputs :P Where do you get these boards done?
-
Ok,
-
Ok, After a few days of smacking my head against the keyboard I was finally able to produce a LPT board that can use 40 Switches. I'm shooting for another design to do 60 or better but I'll have to read up on that. The board itself looks like a web that a drunken spinder may have made after 3 days of playing Maze Craze ;D.
The boards and all of the parts would come out to around $20 as a sellable kit. Personally I know you can buy a key wiz for around that price but I just had an itch to create this board.
So my questions are:
1. Do you guys think a market may exist for an LPT board?
2. Do you think an LPT board will perform better than a Keyboard encoder type board.
3. Do you think it's worth it to move forward on production? I feel like it may be a gamble as I need to order at least 30 boards to get an OK price.
Let me know.
Thanks
Charlie
(http://LPT.jpg)
-
as far as i can tell, the thing worked great. but economically, if its not 60 inputs, there are better alternatives. If you can get teh 60 inputs at $20, or there about, then its worth it, but for 40, I'm not so sure.
-
For 40 inputs, im sorry to say its not worth it. You can get a real keyboard encoder with a reasonable amount of inputs for the same price. With the switch its a good deal, and yes, im sure youll sell a few, but in this case, you'de be better off to just ditch the board because if you wanted one of these its better to BYO for a few bucks and get the full 60.
-
For 40 inputs, im sorry to say its not worth it.
-
Well I wouldnt be too sure about that. If you sell those off for lets say $25-$30, its still a pretty good bargain, as long as you can get 60 inputs. This will open up a whole new world for things other than arcades. Im sure if you sold around 30 it would be worth it for you.
-
Well I wouldnt be too sure about that.
-
Ok, Let's try this. I'll etch out a 60 Pin proto-type board and put it togther to test on my Mame Cab. If the results are good (I'm sure they will be) then I'll start a new thread to generate interest in this product. If I can get enough people to commit to buy the board then I'll have them produced.
A good point was brough up by saying that this board is not just for Arcade related functions, so that is helping me sway away from Scrapping the idea.
Let me kow if this sounds ok?
Thanks
Charlie
-
Sounds awesome :) Give it a go, but remember that when people say stuff, they don't necessarily follow through, as with your other board's thread :P I like the idea though.
Just off topic, where do you get your boards made, and what/how do you create your prototype ones? I was thinking of creating a board prototype using the "iron-on" method, but Im a bit worried that Ill mess up. Not to mention that money plays a huge factor.
-
im not familiar with this iron on method, whats that all about?
-
You use a laser printer to print the circuit on special transfer paper, place this on the copper clad board, and press down with a clothes iron. It should leave etchant resistant marks on the board.
I tried it a few times, but it never worked. Half the traces never stuck the the board, and the rest had dozens of micro breaks in them.
There are also mechanical etchers/routers: a computer controlled router table for cutting small quantities. They are horribly expensive to buy, but here is a link on how to build one. (http://cq.cx/pcb-router.pl)
-
You probably cheaped out on the paper for the iron method then, because I read some huge thing about it and it said staples paper worked wonders...ill find the site for you....
http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm
-
No, I used expensive stuff made specifically for this. Maybe I should try photo paper.
-
Well check that site up there because the guy said it worked awesome, but if you use the iron method youll have to expect that youre gonna have to make a few touch ups with a pen later on...
-
I was just thinking that "Maybe" my CNC Router would be able to draw out the board with a fine tipped Sharpie marker. I still have to try the Iron On first.
Worst case, I'll make a few T-Shirts out of the design ;D (kidding)
-
If you do end up putting these into production, I would still like to know where you get them done.
-
It doesn't sound like anyone is looking at this developming for others...
-
I don't think it worth $35-$40 if you can't get it working with anything but windows.
There are plenty of people who use DOS, and a stubborn few who use Linux (like me).
-
I'm starting to second guess it also. The real trouble is the quick disconnects. You need 120 per setup.
If I sold it. I would sell the base cable. Then one per player (12 inputs). Each players set of inputs would have 24 QD (2.50) let alone the cables or anything else. So for all 60 inputes it would be 12.50 of JUST the QDs... But your cabling would be finished! Just plug and play.
Anyway, I want to create a prototype in the next week and see what people think after they are put together.
-
You know you can daisy chain the main 12 connectors each into 5 separate connectors so you dont have to have a 60 X 60 grid if you dont want. Mine was a 12 X 60 grid but you have to daisy chain.
-
Well Im sure Peale would give you some type of deal if you decided to buy a few hundred from him. Theyre usually $6/bag and I believe theres a fixed rate or a good rate for shipping...I was going to order 4 bags and I wanted to know shipping and he said a buck or two for all of the bags, so its pretty good. You could do what Ultimarc does with the minipac and sell all the cabling optional for an extra 20+ bucks....
About the grid thing -- that depends whether you sell the cables too. If you're selling cables for an extra few bucks, you would be better off 60x60, but otherwise, you would probably be better off just making the 5x12 like Hoagie said
-
(http://www.susans-spot.com/lpt.jpg)
Click here to see Wiring Diagram for my big bulky version (http://www.susans-spot.com/lpt_diagram.jpg)
-
I haven't had time to actually look at it closely but I believe that this is an LPT CP interface in my Korean cab
(http://img186.exs.cx/img186/9551/52et.jpg)
-
Dont think so... this circuit doesnt need any chips, its all diodes. Is that from the korean cab? You probably have some noname one in there, not sure though.
-
I slightly changes the diagram... so that each group has a 'common ground'... I'm sure you can figure it out without much trouble.
IE, you cant plug the ground wire from player one into the positive in player 2.
But after that... cabling looks like a common ground solution...
I was thinking that instead of trying to get a way to make the connections for the end user (screw in terminal or whatever) why not just wire them up... And after that I removed the board... And after that I rewired so there where only 5 different groups of buttons... And it all seems to be great....
but TONS of diodes... TONS of QDs... and TONS of heat shrink tubing to make it look good...
and after that...
I'm still worried about the drivers and the performance on a 4 player control panel with 4 buttons each if there will be any problems... but there is only one way to test it..
-
I'll try to crawl inside there and get a better shot of it tonight
-
i tested everything i could on mine short of hooking up a 4 player panel....I might still do that eventually.
-
I've been looking at the schematic on Trimoor's page, and there's something I must be missing. Where do you hook up the other contact for all those switches? There must be a common ground somewhere, right?
-Steve
-
I've been looking at the schematic on Trimoor's page, and there's something I must be missing.
-
Also, its not really a ground... Just what we are used to calling it...
-
/\
|
|__what he said
-
here's a couple more shots of the LPT control board in my "Come On Baby" cab
(http://img11.exs.cx/img11/559/control0sx.jpg)
(http://img174.exs.cx/img174/825/control23ty.jpg)
-
What do all the wires plug into? Does it control lights or other things?
Is the LPT plug the only thing connected to the main PCB?
Is the game X86 based?
-
Yeah.. if you click my sig you'll see that it's all run off of a Celeron 500
The red, blue, white, and unused plugins across the top of the picture all go to the CP
The LPT plugs into the port on the left of the XILINX chip
I didn't trace all of the other wires down yet
I was up till 4AM just cleaning the screen, taking and posting pictures, and tracking down a faulty wire.
I'll post more info when I can get back in the cab again
-
Not trying to rain on this at all, I think it's a cool idea, but before someone tries to sell it commercially, I would like to point out a couple of other options:
USB - Two GP-Wiz Ecos - $40 and 64 inputs.
PS/2 - http://www.surf.to/buttonbox (approx $30 to build, and 128 inputs in matrixed mode).
-
yeah, unless teh whole thing clocks at less than $30, its not financially worth it.
But it was fun playing with it
-
Another thought - looking at the schematic, it appears that the circuit is using a 12x5 matix with pins 18 to 25 of the connector unused.
Shouldn't it theoretically be possible to just add more diodes and wire and make this into a max 12x13 matrix (156 inputs), (more than the number of keyboard keys), or at least a 12x9 (108 input) controller?
What would need to be modified to make this feasible?
-
The driver seems to only handle 60 inputs, maybe you need to modify the driver to handle all the inputs, anyways the drivers are open source so you can probably hack them :police:
-
The driver seems to only handle 60 inputs, maybe you someone needs to modify the driver to handle all the inputs, anyways the drivers are open source so you someone can probably hack them :police:
-
assuming those other leads can be used in such a manner, i believe they'd just have to hack the driver to see a third joystick. Cant do more than 30\stick i believe
-
The driver seems to only handle 60 inputs, maybe you someone needs to modify the driver to handle all the inputs, anyways the drivers are open source so you someone can probably hack them :police:
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!
;D
-
btw, I was considering, but decided it wasn't worth the time, with a slightly modified version.
No boards.. just cords....
It took 6 VGA cords (can get in bulk for 1 buck each) and 1/2 of a 25pin m/m.
Then using heat shrink tubing and diodes, and a BUNCH of ends..
In the end... it would have been a 60 port prewired with swappable capablities (since the each group of 15 (really 12 but with a ground for that group and 3 not used) would be plugged in with the db15 monitor ends.
Anyway, seemed like a good solution.
-
local dollar store had LPT cables for $1.
thought about buying a bunch of them...but didnt
-
Thats a great deal, too bad my dollar stores dont sell them :( Id buy a few....splice em and use em for projects around the house...
-
You can get them for a buck on ebay pretty often... Add a buck for shipping.
-
Okay, I have some technical questions on this, but don't want to read through the whole thread, (not sure it would tell me the answers anyway).
Re: Software - is PPJoy the recommended software for this? The Fokker 50 stuff looked simpler, but only supports 40 inputs.
Re: Device functionality: I saw in the Fokker 50 software that I can send keycodes and even macros with a button press, but I also saw in the write-up something about Joystick 1 Buttons 1-30 and Joystick 2 Buttons 1 to 60. How does this work? Is the device actually seen as two joysticks? If I have P1B1 connected as Switch 1 and programmed to send L Ctrl, does it also send a J1B1 keypress or not? Can the interface send pure Joystick codes (i.e. J1 button 5, for example)?
Re: Programmability. With an I-PAC or KeyWiz, I can save different codesets and load them on the fly. I assume with some versions of the LPT software, I could for example save two config files, say in a PPJoy1 and a PPJoy file, and change the names and re-boot to swap between them, but is there a way to load a custom config file from the command line before launching an application?
Re: Functionality. The final thing I am trying to determine is whether this should be considered a keyboard encoder or a gamepad encoder or a specialized controller for my Encoder pages. The crux of the final question is: "Beyond not being able to launch programs and that the LPT switch has more inputs (and the port connections), is there a fundamental difference between using this device and loading PPJoy at startup, and using say a GP-Wiz and loading RBJoy at startup.)
-
i only used ppjoy to run mine. its very limited in regards to loading different code sets and whatnot. it is seen as two separate joysticks, 30 buttons each.
If you like, I can send youmine for review purposes, if you send it back. Then you canjudge for your self.
-
i only used ppjoy to run mine. its very limited in regards to loading different code sets and whatnot. it is seen as two separate joysticks, 30 buttons each.
Thanks. I had a look at the PPJoy site and it does as you said seem fairly limited. I wonder if it would be possible to set it up so PPJoy installed it as 2 joysticks (with no mapping other than Button 1 to Joy1B1), and then use RBJoy (which works better with gamepads and does allow Remapping), but I doubt RBJoy would recognize it.
Sounds like it will stay in the Keyboard encoders section (unless more info shows up).
If you like, I can send youmine for review purposes, if you send it back. Then you canjudge for your self.
I appreciate the offer, but I don't have spare buttons (and I'm not unwiring my KeyWiz), and I also don't have time for testing it out either.
-
Just to let you know I did the LPT Switch interface and mixed with JoyToKey it works flawlessly. I've tried a bunch of games on it and works fine :).
If you want to have fun building a simple interface this is the way to go :P... if everything else fails the keywiz for u ...
My layout is a SF/Neogeo layout + coins and start buttons