The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: subzero23 on December 21, 2004, 04:15:04 pm
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(or changes it would at least request of its manufacturers of its products)
it's funny that the arcade industry has been around for years but just the past few years it's been the home-arcade consumers helping their arcade side of business and dictating direction (or hopefully).
What are some changes they should make?
First of all they need to put color pics on their website for most arcade stuff
Second they need to show all arcade related parts on their website, there are some things they just have part #s for.. they even have an 8 way balltop but I have no clue what it looks like.
Third I wish they'd order some colored Super joysticks
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Lower prices and faster shipping.
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The first thing they should do is get rid of the frames on their web site. At the very least, they need to do this for the shopping cart/checkout pages. Because there are *many* people who worry that their site is not running on a secure server because it's hidden by the frames page. :police:
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I wish they'd give you the shipping costs before you give your credit card number, maybe even before you sign up.
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I wish they'd give you the shipping costs before you give your credit card number, maybe even before you sign up.
Agreed, it's always alot higher then I budget......
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Guys, the members of this little website constitute almost the entire population of people who care what color joysticks and buttons they get.
Collectors of dedicated games don't care. The subject never even comes up.
Operators don't care.
Game manufacturers don't care. This won't matter soon, I imagine the last NEW joystick game EVER will ship next year.
The worldwide population of people who really want colored supers is probably about 100 people. All of them members of this board.
I don't see Happ's expanding there selection, instead I predict it will decline. I am serious in my predictions that 2005 will mark the last year that ANY new US titles use 8-way joysticks. The 49-way titles are also flopping as fast as they can come out. 2005 (or 2006) will likely be the last year for them as well.
And if you can blame any one particular thing for putting the nail in the coffin of joystick games, then it is going to be the new Madden game. It is a $5000 joystick game. It is a copy of last years console game. I imagine it will put a lot of operators out of business, and the few that don't go under from it will be soured from joystick games completely.
There is no way an operator is going to get his investment back from a Madden game. No way an op is even going to be able to make the $2000 he will need to upgrade to the new version next year, not after expenses. I have seen these suckers on location, all they are doing is looking huge and gathering dust.
If ops buy too many of these then the fallout will be huge. Huge. The only reason Golden Tee makes money is because you can't play it at home without a machine, AND it is a game that is very condusive to playing while drinking beer.
1983 was the crash. 1991 marked a brief rebirth. This is the year the whole thing dies.
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isnt progress grand :'(
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"Guys, the members of this little website constitute almost the entire population of people who care what color joysticks and buttons they get.
Collectors of dedicated games don't care. The subject never even comes up.
Operators don't care.
Game manufacturers don't care. This won't matter soon, I imagine the last NEW joystick game EVER will ship next year.
The worldwide population of people who really want colored supers is probably about 100 people. All of them members of this board.
I don't see Happ's expanding there selection, instead I predict it will decline. I am serious in my predictions that 2005 will mark the last year that ANY new US titles use 8-way joysticks. The 49-way titles are also flopping as fast as they can come out. 2005 (or 2006) will likely be the last year for them as well. "
I completely realize that is probably, 99% the true reality, BUT recently I had a glimpse of hope that this is just a dead period in arcade history like that of the 80's and someday in the future there will be arcades once more, but not stupid 3D console games like madden but true arcade-STYLE games. Although Tekken 5 is just coming out this year and Tekken 6 will probably come out in arcades imo.
"And if you can blame any one particular thing for putting the nail in the coffin of joystick games, then it is going to be the new Madden game. It is a $5000 joystick game. It is a copy of last years console game. I imagine it will put a lot of operators out of business, and the few that don't go under from it will be soured from joystick games completely."
Heh that's sad, my local student union has one of those, no one plays it.
"There is no way an operator is going to get his investment back from a Madden game. No way an op is even going to be able to make the $2000 he will need to upgrade to the new version next year, not after expenses. I have seen these suckers on location, all they are doing is looking huge and gathering dust. "
That's sad, $2000 for a $20 console game
":If ops buy too many of these then the fallout will be huge. Huge. The only reason Golden Tee makes money is because you can't play it at home without a machine, AND it is a game that is very condusive to playing while drinking beer. "
I've never seen it at a real arcade.. I think it's mostly for bars and meant to transcend the "Arcade" environment.
"1983 was the crash. 1991 marked a brief rebirth. This is the year the whole thing dies."
:( Well I wouldn't say that, I'm still hopefully there will be another rebirth someday in the future... it's just that our generation (not age specific but people who have played in arcades the past 30 years) probably just got sick of them, some day a new generation will hit and hopefully have retro fever. But what's this about the 83 crash, I've heard of it before... were arcades really popular/populated before 83 and then what happened?
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But what's this about the 83 crash, I've heard of it before... were arcades really popular/populated before 83 and then what happened?
Arcades were HUGE business from about '79ish-'84ish, and then they just disappeared.
Most of them in my area had 100+ games in a singlewide stripmall store.
Frontage wasn't that important, so they tended to be pretty small storefronts that were deep.
On any given night of the week almost EVERY game had someone on it.
The more popular games would have people stacked up 10+ deep waiting their turn, and watching the guy that was playing.
The two big contributors to their death were the improvements in the home consoles, and lack of vision on the part of designers.
Prior to the Atari 7800 coming out, you could "play" the arcade games at home, but they weren't REALLY the arcade games.
The 7800 had the first games on it that actually COMPETED with the arcade versions.
When Nintendo released the NES a few years later, the games at home were actually BETTER than the ones in the arcade, so people saved their money, and stopped going to arcades.
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I'll agree with Paige here. Subzero, I understand your sentiment, but it is a nostalgic one at best. There was a time when you could find an entire arcade with almost nothing but pinball machines. That won't happen again. Why would it? And neither will vids. The reason very simply is that the arcade used to always provide interactive entertainment you couldn't get anywhere else.
When consoles caught up with "single screen" arcade games, the arcade companies moved on and came up with scrolling games and better graphics. When consoles caught up with that, the arcades gave us real-time 3D, and full motion experiences. When consoles caught up with that, the arcades gave us simulations, and elaborate machines with innovative controls.
Well, now the home consoles have evolved to the point of delivering highly advanced cinematic experiences, with games budgets in the millions. What's left to do that would bring people into arcades? The arcade designers are cornered. There's nothing left really. Maybe the advent of holodecks will revive things, but that's far off.
~Ray B.
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ya holodecks, virtual reality (the unfulfilled future grrr)
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You still can't have Turrett Tower in your living room! :D
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Arcades were a combination social center and arena. You went to hang out and compete. I don't know where teens hang out these days, but it seems when we outgrew arcades, they just died.
I don't blame consoles so much, because I never felt that arcade going was so much about playing the games as it was having people see you play and maybe challenge you, or having a high score to beat and put your initials on top of.
Still, I'm sure at least in part consoles, the net, the decline of society, and a jillion other reasons led to the death of the arcade.
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Arcades were a combination social center and arena. You went to hang out and compete. I don't know where teens hang out these days, but it seems when we outgrew arcades, they just died.
I live in Australia.
I'd say that like the USA/Canada, 25 years ago, people of my vintage went to the arcades to compete and shoot the aliens.
These days as a cop I go to the kids who have shot each other.
:(
On a lighter note, with the possible death of arcade machines as we know them, will we see the classics such as Galaga etc rise in price as collectors items?
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On a lighter note, with the possible death of arcade machines as we know them, will we see the classics such as Galaga etc rise in price as collectors items?
Possibly at some point. But with the recent release of all of the "Class Reunion" type cabs, I see prices either remaining stable or falling in the near term. That's my official "stock market" advice for today. ;)
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On a lighter note, with the possible death of arcade machines as we know them, will we see the classics such as Galaga etc rise in price as collectors items?
Prices have already falled dramatically as machines such as these flooded the market. When they became popular again, and were commanding high $$$, people who had the machines sitting around wanted to get onto the money bandwagon as well, and were selling their machines.
Although one of the more common games, it wasn't common for the EveryMan to be able to find one, so it commanded those prices. But with the market flooded, and games like Galaga are easy to get, the prices have come down considerably.
That said, a title like Galaga will always be a little higher than others, because it *is* still in demand.
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What are some changes they should make?
First of all they need to put color pics on their website for most arcade stuff
Mostly relevent to the PC Arcade and Home Entertainment areas. Not needed for the industrial, vending, and gaming areas. Amusement, maybe.
And those exploded views with many of the stuff are very nice. In fact, I'd prefer exploded views to the color pictures included with the 360 and 49 way joysticks, for example. Having both would be better, of course.
Second they need to show all arcade related parts on their website, there are some things they just have part #s for...
Agree.
Third I wish they'd order some colored Super joysticks
[shrug] whatever. Not important to me.
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I don't blame consoles so much, because I never felt that arcade going was so much about playing the games as it was having people see you play and maybe challenge you, or having a high score to beat and put your initials on top of.
I agree. It was a social thing, not a technology thing.
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Ok, ok .... back to the original question.....
I think Happs search engines is incredible BAD. You can not search for items using multiple keywords to try to reduce your search. I also agree about having photos documenting all items to be purchased.
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I don't know where teens hang out these days....
They're right in front of you.
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I'm willing to bet the average BYOAC user is closer to 30.
Seriously where do teens go to get out of the house these days?
I'm sure that the usual places apply... Bowling alleys, Mini Golf (both places with arcades usually) the mall... but did anything replace the social/competitive atmosphere of the mall arcade?
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crackhouses
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Wow. So much about you makes sense now. :)
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Hey I'm an upstanding human being
never done drugs, drank or smoked
I'm just telling the truth, most teenagers are off doing drugs
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I'm just telling the truth, most teenagers are off doing drugs
Like they didn't back during the golden age of arcades. ;)
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Most is a strong term... ;)
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I'm just telling the truth, most teenagers are off doing drugs
as my friend jules here would retort, thats a mighty bold statement..
(http://images.ibsys.com/2002/0523/1477017_120X90.jpg)
what vacuum is it that you live in again?
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Hey I'm an upstanding human being
never done drugs, drank or smoked
I have finally established subzero's true age.
She's almost 12 years old.............
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I'm a guy and I'm 22
what kind of board is this with all the immature preschool insults?
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I'm a guy and I'm 22
what kind of board is this with all the immature preschool insults?
It was not an immature comment. It was a comical posting based on the fact that I don't know anybody younger than 14 who has never tried a cigarette, had a beer or worse.
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Oh my bad, I apologize.. I assumed you were referring to something else.
Nah I'm 22 just got a personal ban on that stuff
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Oh my bad, I apologize.. I assumed you were referring to something else.
Nah I'm 22 just got a personal ban on that stuff
Nothing wrong with that. I've never smoked or done drugs either, and I'm 36 years old. Now, I do have a few beers on occassion... ;D
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I know people in their late 20s who have never had a cigarette or a beer.
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Hey I'm an upstanding human being
never done drugs, drank or smoked
I'm just telling the truth, most teenagers are off doing drugs
So your a teenager? I thought you were 22.
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I know people in their late 20s who have never had a cigarette or a beer.
Man, not that there is anythingthing wrong either way..... But late 20's and never had a drink on new years eve or puffed a cigga out of curiosity when they were 15?
The numbers would have to be low.
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Hey I'm an upstanding human being
never done drugs, drank or smoked
I'm just telling the truth, most teenagers are off doing drugs
So your a teenager? I thought you were 22.
I am 22, where do you get me=teenager?
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Hey I'm an upstanding human being
never done drugs, drank or smoked
I'm just telling the truth, most teenagers are off doing drugs
So your a teenager? I thought you were 22.
I am 22, where do you get me=teenager?
Probably from here:
I'm just telling the truth, most teenagers are off doing drugs
I didn't see any other reference to a point you were trying to make about teenagers, you simply referrence crackhouses.
I wont think any less of you if you were to say you were 15. (Honest)
-Goz
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No I'm 22, but recently was a teenager...just saying my observations
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I find the general teenage mentality extends to about age 23 these days. Perhaps it always did. I am 27 and I have friends ranging from 20-28 and I used to be a youth worker at my church (so I have a lot of recent teenager experience), and that general teenager mentality, attitude and world view leaves different people at different ages. It usually takes at least 2 years out of college, not living at moms house for it to vanish.
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I dont beleive that the superiority of console tech has anything to do with the death of US arcades..
i mean look at the japanese..they are one step ahead of us on everything tech yet theyre not jaded like us,and despite theyre advancement their arcade industry is still going strong despite some recent closings...
what is it that the japanese have been able to hold onto,or have, that we lost ,or simply never had??
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Japan has held the social aspect, and everyone in Japan lives in such tiny apartments that I imagine they don't spend much time at home.
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The Japanese didn't "grow out" of arcades like we did.
It's common to see businessmen in 3 piece suits playing a round of Guilty Gear or KOF or whatever the latest thing is.
I went to a local mini-golf place last night for awhile. It was BUSY. but all younger traffic, kids and teens.
That new Ghost Squad gun game by SEGA is damn cool. Tekken 5 is like Tekken 4, but nicer graphics. And that Madden Football machine was always busy!
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That new Ghost Squad gun game by SEGA is damn cool. Tekken 5 is like Tekken 4, but nicer graphics. And that Madden Football machine was always busy!
REALLY! The ones I have seen on location are eternally unmanned.
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I'm willing to bet the average BYOAC user is closer to 30.
Seriously where do teens go to get out of the house these days?
I'm sure that the usual places apply... Bowling alleys, Mini Golf (both places with arcades usually) the mall... but did anything replace the social/competitive atmosphere of the mall arcade?
I meant they are online.
At the arcade you play against 2-4 people from the neighborhood, online you are playing against 20+ people from around the world.
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so the problem isnt our becoming technologically jaded, its purely a social issue..
I think we sadly came to the realization too late that video games are an adult form of entertainment..
We were all told that games are for kids and were a childish thing to do.were bombarded with distorted social opinions like "People who play games are geeks", and "only shildren play video games"..so when we became adults as a generation, many put their games aside..
The japanese on the other hand equate adult values and activites with video games.Their adult entertainment,their adult films, their adult music are all tied into the video game industry in one way or another..hell they go to the arcade to drink!
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Arcades are gone (IMO obviously) for a few reasons...
The cost of going
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When I was a teen, we went to the arcade to play games, not really hang out. Cuz the general attitude of arcade managers was that if you weren't spending money, Get out!
In the early 90's, most teens I knew complained there wasn't anything to do. I think it's still the same now. Businesses dont want teens hanging out. Teens don't have that much cash. So a bunch of rowdy people hanging out at your establishment not spending money isn't good business.
Arcades won't come back for the social aspect cuz teens today have text messaging, internet chat, and all that for socializing.
Japan, as mentioned already, is a whole different social dynamic. In that society, people go out all the time and the population is so condensed.
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The whole movement for "better than home performance" (BTH) has been one of the arcade industries attempts over the last 10 years to revitalive from the perspective that consoles were the sole culprit..but as paigeoliver pointed out, when you make cost prohibitve amusments you essentially put people out of work..
i guess we all need to move to japan then :P
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Joining the thread a bit late guys. Anyone else experience bad customer service from Happ uk? I've had problems with them returning mails, giving accurate times for them receiving items from the states and not contacting me in relation to delays.
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A few things Happs needs to do: Color pics, lowered shipping (what is this Happs or ebay?), NOT charging your credit card twice for some retarded method of verification, give you shipping before you complete your order and give better bulk discounts.
And in my opinion the only reason arcades almost completely died is that 98% of arcade games are console available. If arcades have any chance of coming back it'll be when a hardware developer makes an uber powerful hardware arcade machine that cannot be ported to consoles and have some developers make some new games for them.
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And in my opinion the only reason arcades almost completely died is that 98% of arcade games are console available.
100% of the movies in the theaters will be available on DVD and video.
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You bring up a good point about the movies but the difference is that when new movies come out they're almost guaranteed to hit theatres first. It's not the same with arcade games. Let's say capcom makes Marvel Vs Capcom 3 (even though they're not), and they make it on a new super powered arcade hardware machine- something that can't be emulated on home consoles. I bet it gives at least a little bit of life back to arcades. What I was trying to get across is that if games were like the way they were way back when arcade games couldn't be reproduced faithfully on consoles then maybe there may be some renewed interest in arcades. And look at the turnaround time. Tekken 5 arcade november 04. Tekken 5 console feb/march 05. Only 4 months. What people need is a reason to go to arcades which really isn't there much anymore. I just wish arcades weren't in the state they're in today.
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What I was trying to get across is that if games were like the way they were way back when arcade games couldn't be reproduced faithfully on consoles then maybe there may be some renewed interest in arcade
but its the operator who has to eat the cost of the hardware. so in trying to provide something thats superior to home hardware ,that op essentially now has to spend more than he can make in what by design is a .25-1.50$ per cycle redemption scheme.
Add to that, the fact that attentions spans are short on games, so its a volatile investment..unless the game becomes a classic or cult the likelyhood of prolonged returns to offset capital spent is not good.
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I'm thinking this is the job of a new thread!
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How about the ability to view prices right on the product listing without clicking on each item. I find that quite annoying.
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How about the ability to view prices right on the product listing without clicking on each item. I find that quite annoying.
Heh...quite right. How hard would it be to make a script that parses the database for the current price?
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What I was trying to get across is that if games were like the way they were way back when arcade games couldn't be reproduced faithfully on consoles then maybe there may be some renewed interest in arcade
but its the operator who has to eat the cost of the hardware. so in trying to provide something thats superior to home hardware ,that op essentially now has to spend more than he can make in what by design is a .25-1.50$ per cycle redemption scheme.
Add to that, the fact that attentions spans are short on games, so its a volatile investment..unless the game becomes a classic or cult the likelyhood of prolonged returns to offset capital spent is not good.
That's why I mentioned something like marvel vs capcom 3 or street fighter 4. something to bring back the flame. Actually to think about it the whole system needs restructuring. Maybe the hardware should be the responsibility of the developers and not the ops. This way ops can rent these games and just pay a liscensing fee maybe. Just a theory but I think it'd be more effective than making an op pay $5000 for a game(madden...) and then have to have it for 3+years just to pay for itself. They could have the game, pay a fee to the developers, and start making profits right away instead of waiting.
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The developers don't want to lose the money any more than the operators do.
The fact is this. A Madden arcade game IS a viable idea yes, but not as a $5000 33" 4-player monster.
But, it is too late now. A new fighting game isn't going to revive the arcades, nothing will. Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 could come out tommorrow. they could give the upgrade kits away FREE and the game could never have a home version and it still wouldn't even make a tiny DENT in stopping the total death of arcades.
What I was trying to get across is that if games were like the way they were way back when arcade games couldn't be reproduced faithfully on consoles then maybe there may be some renewed interest in arcade
but its the operator who has to eat the cost of the hardware. so in trying to provide something thats superior to home hardware ,that op essentially now has to spend more than he can make in what by design is a .25-1.50$ per cycle redemption scheme.
Add to that, the fact that attentions spans are short on games, so its a volatile investment..unless the game becomes a classic or cult the likelyhood of prolonged returns to offset capital spent is not good.
That's why I mentioned something like marvel vs capcom 3 or street fighter 4. something to bring back the flame. Actually to think about it the whole system needs restructuring. Maybe the hardware should be the responsibility of the developers and not the ops. This way ops can rent these games and just pay a liscensing fee maybe. Just a theory but I think it'd be more effective than making an op pay $5000 for a game(madden...) and then have to have it for 3+years just to pay for itself. They could have the game, pay a fee to the developers, and start making profits right away instead of waiting.
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Japan, as mentioned already, is a whole different social dynamic. In that society, people go out all the time and the population is so condensed.
I agree, but maybe if Boong-Ga Boong-Ga were brought over, it might start a revival!
(http://a1112.g.akamai.net/7/1112/492/2002091466/www.wired.com/news/images/full/poke_kancho1_f.jpg)
I recently had a "Cyber Arena" start up in my town, basically just some high end PC's for LAN party games and several consoles hooked up to big plasma's. They charge hourly rates for you to come game. They do tout themselves as the "Arcade of the future". We plan to start a League at work, way cooler then a bowling league IMHO.
Will it go out of business in 6 months? Probably... :-\
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Will it go out of business in 6 months? Probably... :-\
I have seen lots of these places open and close in the past 7 years.
These days if you want to run an arcade then open a bar and put in a nice game selection and pretend it is an arcade. The games might not make any money, but they MIGHT be drawing bar business that you wouldn't otherwise get. I know my friends and I tend to go to "The Pink Galleon" just because they have a few games. We might only play $2 in games, but we will spend plenty on beer. If the owner was looking at it from the games perspective then it looks like his games aren't making much, but we would go someplace else if they weren't there,
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My friends and I frequent a certain bar for similiar reasons. They have NTN Trivia.