"We should never, ever, EVER take our resilient, beautiful, orderly and civilized election process for granted."I'll try to break it down for you since you view this as something that is a right/left thing - which if you read the Reuters snippet, it WAS NOT ::) (I spelled out wasn't instead of using the contraction in case you chose to misread the words I post again ::) )
You already have....
BREAKING: Witness Says Voting Company Tampered With Machines (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/12/13/223158/61)
Bush and his cronies stole another election right under our noses...but that doesn't bother you since your guy won.
...we are at least a civilized enough society to not try to win elections by killing (LITERALLY) the opposition.
As bad as our politicking is, WE HAVEN'T TRIED TO KILL THE OPPOSING PARTY'S CANDIDATE
I was surprised Bill lasted 8 years.QuoteAs bad as our politicking is, WE HAVEN'T TRIED TO KILL THE OPPOSING PARTY'S CANDIDATE
Yet.
As bad as our politicking is, WE HAVEN'T TRIED TO KILL THE OPPOSING PARTY'S CANDIDATE
Mr C
You are kidding right? That's from the dailykos, or known to the real world as "moonbat city".
Well....
Martin Luther King JR. (not a politician per se, but same vein...)
JFK
Bobby Kennedy
Abraham Lincoln
I really don't expect Bush supporters to care about any of this though.I really don't expect you or any other liberals to get off your @sses and do anything about it.
Well....I'm gonna choose to look at the "rosy" side of life on those.
Martin Luther King JR. (not a politician per se, but same vein...)
JFK
Bobby Kennedy
Abraham Lincoln
I didn't count the attempt on Reagan because that was a kook trying to impress Jody Foster, but you can add that one to the list if you'd like.
Pointing out that these were after they were elected instead of during an election is splitting hairs IMHO.
--- saint
blah blah blah .. recount... blah blah blahAnswer you seemed to have missed:
PAPERLESS NON-AUDITABLE ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES
Your champion conceded.
This is a dead subject, no matter how many 'new' conspiracy theories you can dig up, it's over.
Bush won!
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to say that twice in the same thread.
I don't think ANYBODY here dislikes anybody for their political views, but you seem hell-bent on making yourself the lone exception. For you, in the spirit of Christmas, I give you a :-*
in the spirit of Christmas, I give you a Kiss
I'm gonna choose to believe...
They wanted to be fooled...like Dartful Doger, they don't want to ask questions.I don't want to marry another guy.
Typical response. Sad really....willfull ignorance is no excuse.
Holy Jesus Mary what a bunch of wackos.I like the way you say it with love :-* :angel:
...Are you afraid that you're going to accidentally marry another guy if the government doesn't stop you?Man, I was walking down the street the other day and slipped on some ice in the driveway, next thing I know, I'm married to my buddy.
Apparently your willful ignorance is ok?HEY! I started that thread to point out vote fraud on BOTH sides, not just the right wing conspiracy! ;)
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,25749.msg216160.html#msg216160
Yes, the vast right wing conspiracy grows.
I didn't count the attempt on Reagan because that was a kook trying to impress Jody Foster, but you can add that one to the list if you'd like.In all fairness, Jody Foster is pretty hot though. I'm just sayin'.
Pointing out that these were after they were elected instead of during an election is splitting hairs IMHO.
I don't think ANYBODY here dislikes anybody for their political views,
Dartful, if the government takes away a right you weren't using they've still taken away a right.
Bush won so I get to keep my gun.
I voted for the guy that let me keep the rights I care about.
Bush won so I get to keep my gun.
You want them so you feel you can protect you and your family because you generally don't trust people, or you trust that there's a certain element of danger prevalent in our society, fine, I'm with you. However, if you don't trust people, why would you fight for them to have access to more weapons?No, you generalize here. It's not that we "generally don't trust people", it's that we specifically don't trust criminals to follow the same laws you wish foisted upon us.
Those of you who like them because you are an enthusiast and you just "like to shoot them"...well, you're just crazy and your arguments don't count....aaaand that about wraps you up. Seriously. Thanks for inviting us, we appreciated the offer of Kool-Aid.
Jeffrey Dahmer liked to eat people, I'm sure he thought we taste just like chicken. I'm sure his argument would be "Who doesn't love chicken, right?"Nice analogy. I've got another.
Can't we all just get along?
(http://img149.exs.cx/img149/8932/cabinet5ot.jpg)
Not to turn this into another gun debate thread - 'cuz where has that ever gotten anyone? - but the thing I'll never understand, regardless of the "If they outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns" nonsense, is how gun advocates can argue the "I want them for my protection" angle.
You want them so you feel you can protect you and your family because you generally don't trust people, or you trust that there's a certain element of danger prevalent in our society, fine, I'm with you. However, if you don't trust people, why would you fight for them to have access to more weapons?
The general "pro-gun" mindset seems so short-sighted. Those of you who like them because you are an enthusiast and you just "like to shoot them"...well, you're just crazy and your arguments don't count. Seriously. Jeffrey Dahmer liked to eat people, I'm sure he thought we taste just like chicken. I'm sure his argument would be "Who doesn't love chicken, right?"
i've got to wonder
P.S. It always cracks me up how high and mighty you are when I dish it out, then you have absolutely no problem, whatsoever, resorting to ad hominem attacks when you are too afraid to address the issues at hand.Ad hominem...that's rich. From Dexter, we get "you have to believe that educated guesses (that's right, guesses - that's what polls are) were wrong", ad nauseum. From you, we get conspiracy theories you read on moonbat sites about companies and processes that have been used for more than this election, yet even your blue state officials had no problems with them being used, even with all the "proof" and statistics you are now claiming show a clear and evident bias, conveniently after an election you lost.
You're as smug as any effete commie liberal I've ever met.Actually, you're probably a bit off there. I'm probably MORE smug, but I view it as my right. After all, my guy won. In another four years, you'll understand why it feels so good to be out from under the Presidency of someone you diametrically oppose. Then again, I have a feeling you may have to live with 16+ years of it.
Dexter,
Good points, all. But remember, you are dealing with a "faith-based" group...reality is *not* welcome.
1. blah blah blah
through
20. blah blah blah
Alright. For you. The addressing of points.
How long has Diebold and ES&S been doing this? Long enough to "steal" 8 years of Clinton - if you want to believe elections are being "stolen".
In ALL the time since the Bush / Gore "debacle", why have Democrats sat on their hands and done nothing to change any of the points you bring up?
You speak of family connections, you speak of a member of the voting machine company speaking of their vow to work for the Republicans (Helloooo? Dan Rather, White House phone....Dan Rather, White House phone)
You speak of INTERNATIONAL observers, but make no mention of the fact that Democratic observers WERE there .... your theories REEK of conspiracies.
I can see how you'd think brothers and friends have an interest in their brother/friend in being elected.
I'd also like for you to realize if they were allowed to steal the election, your Democratic representatives are even MORE stupid than you give US credit for. They had to have it pointed out for them - elected officials had to be told after a screwy election the first time that they should have changed it the second time - AFTER THE ELECTION HAPPENED!
Good God man, what's next? Are you gonna buy a gun because you don't trust your Democratic representatives?
Dexter, Mr.C,
To believe any of the compound link garabage you have produced shows that you have no faith in the american system.
If the system could have been manipulated to that extent, George Soros would have bought that ticket.
I wish both of you would realize that a majority of the American people didn't agree with you. It's as simple as that.
The exit polls were wrong in all the states, even the ones that didn't have these machines. Geeze.
Talk about taken out of context. 80% of the votes counted were made by two companies? Come on boys. There are local election boards all over the US that count the votes. They don't go through a central processing unit. It's shades of "I Robot" . Do you think Bush hit a button and all the voting machines had a red glow come on and they all went Bush?
It confound the senses for you to say on the one hand that Bush is so inept that he can't tie his shoes and on the other that he could orchastrate voter fraud on a National scale.
If you guys are jealous of Bush and the Bush family, why don't you try and make money like that yourselves? After all, of all the President and VP Candidates, Bush had less money than all of them. Do what Kerry did, keep marrying rich widows until you hit the jackpot.
And I have to tell you guys, I don't understand this prejugdice toward faith based groups. I really don't. I am NOT a religious person, I don't attend church and I don't contribute to any spritual group. I am not a believer in any sense of the word, and I don't understand this.
It's not religion that's the issue, it's the fact that these people don't lock step to your "progressive" thinking. I have a lot of respect for people who devote themselves to any cause they think is greater than the self, like patriots, clergy, and even tenants. I don't do that, and they don't upset me. I'm a traditionalist. I like Xmas, I celebrate all of the holidays because that's what I have always done.
There is no issue at hand Mr. C. You can't address someone who is jousting at windmills. You are as blind to the real world as the exteamist factions you decry. Give it up. It's not there. Kerry Lost, Bush won.
...
Get over it, I did. Regroup and come up with some ideas that make sense. Support your local people and find the right ideas that make the most sense for America. Don't sit there and whine about the President. You will lose every time in every battle.
The thing that irks me the most is the way you guys put down the US. What's your frame of reference to say the US isn't the greatest Democracy on the earth? There is NO perfect government, there is NO perfect system anywhere on the face of the planet. A lot of people have given more than you and I will ever have for us to live as freely as we do.
So I say it again, get over it. You can try again in 4 years and we'll see where the American people stand then. Until then I share your pain and understand your frustration. I had clinton, you have Bush. We'll see who suffers in '08.
it feels so good to be out from under the Presidency of someone you diametrically oppose.
Drew, you are killing me.Slowly but surely, my precioussssssssssss. ;D
:) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'( :laugh: :angel:
. I'm already working to help win back some seats in 2006 and I've got a hitlist of dems who need to show some backbone in the coming months, years. Kerry is on that list as well.
(ie: 2-ton Ten Commandments in the courthouse, why not a 2-ton Star of David, or some Islamic Icon? Is it cool because they're the majority?)Why not? They are really pretty.
Nice try, but somehow you haven't convinced me. Give up? or regroup? Which is it?Clarification: Give up on this election, it is over. Regroup for the next one.
8 years of record jobs gains, a balanced budget and relative peace sure must have been a hellish experience for you. I
Isn't gun ownership my right? Do you know where I can get a cheap semi-automatic assault rifle? Can I move into your neighborhood, once I get one?Why yes, Yes you can. I know of several places you can get one. There's a great gun show up in Nashville we can go to and shop. Now you are beginging to grasp the concept of the right to bear arms! It's great to be an American, isn't it??
Still attacking Kerry eh? Why not pull out the ol' Flip-flopper routine, that one is so much more interesting.What do you mean Still? Like I stopped or something? Was I supposed to have stopped? I would be flip flopping if I did stop.
In my view, history is being re-written.In my view, you are just plain wrong. Does my view count?
The more they continue to push their divisive agenda,It's only devisive if you don't agree with it. Any issue is devisive. Try and arguement about football teams and see where you go with that.
You can win, without the popular vote.Finally you came around! Man you are making progress. I'm encouraged. What about you Drew, are you not happy that MrC is actually slowly comming around to reality based living?
We'll see who suffers in '08.
Remember boys and girls, the rules don't apply when you've got the nukes
But don't worry boys and girls, if you forget how powerful the USA is, we'll remind you.
;)
They'll forget, just like they've forgotten about Hitler, so they let Saddam go unchecked.
But don't worry boys and girls, if you forget how powerful the USA is, we'll remind you.
;)
I just love the hypocracy of the republicans quoting the deviation in exit poll data in the Ukraine as reason enough to rerun their election, but ignore the exit poll data deviations in the US...the statistical chance of the deviations happening naturally being calculated at 1 in 13.5 trillion
So when do you ship out, Dartful? I'm sure those "dead-enders" are just quakin' in their boots?
Remember boys and girls, the rules don't apply when you've got the nukes
does that mean North Korea, Iran, Israel, India, Pakistan, China, Russia, and France get to puff their chests out too?Yes, and they are, but you choose not to see it.
just to avoid your inevitable response.... ...."turning the Middle East to glass"You are wrong, I do not want glass from the middle east, I want oil, so nuking them is not an
Mr.C. has made up his mind. He has his own spin on things, so does Dexter. Let them rant, it makes them feel better.
I love how you guys think this is some "conspiracy theory".
Mr.C. has made up his mind.
Anybody who alleges or denies fraud without looking at all of the evidence isn't very smart- It's not in the court, if there is evidence of fraud, it will be found and procecuted.
the results of Ohio can be contested, all it takes is one represenative and one senator with the grapes to do what they should have but didn't in 2000.
All I'm saying is that in an election as close as this...every vote must count, and every vote must be counted. Those of you that would defy that have no right living in this country. There are serious questions regarding voter disenfranchisement, suppression, and possible voting fraud. There have been over 38,000 incidents alleged in the 2004 election. Are you denying that? If so, what proof do you have that any allegation is wrong?Here's why conservatives have such a hard time swallowing that bilge. Prior to the elections, this "concern" was nowhere to be found. Now that the elections are over, there are NUMEROUS cries for "questions, fraud, disenfranchisement, something MUST be done" and the American public is supposed to believe that this has absolutely NOTHING to do with the fact that Kerry lost? Come on, you're smart enough to see why we look askance at you!
What will become of this? I don't know, but it certainly lends credence to my concern. Personally, I support a FULL investigation into all allegations, irregardless the outcome. You heard that correctly wingnuts.There hasn't been a person here who has said we should not have an investigation. Given the view about your silence about this until your man lost, why would you expect us to jump up and say "boy HOWDY let's get to work trying to prove Bush lost".
One thing Dartful, fredster, Drew, et al. have refused to answer is whether or not they support paperless, non-auditable e-voting machines?I couldn't care less what type of machine is used. If there are problems that our elected officials feel require correcting, they'll DO SO. If I feel they need to do so, and aren't moving in the right direction or fast enough, I need to work to get someone in there who shares my views.
Lastly, it also seems that Bush isn't as popular as he wants you to believeWell, let me be the first to say that I don't care what others think of him. What matters to me is what I think of him. If you've got to rely again on polls for your data, then your head must be spinning like a top. The polls you're pinning your hopes on getting you an investigation were wrong, but if polls are what you're going to base your political ideology on, then more power to you. Run with this poll. I know when I've got an itch and the cortizone isn't working, I'm willing to try anything for relief too.
Surely you would like your candidate to be seen as winning legitimately?He won legitimately. Your opinion of him didn't change one bit, so why would it make a whit of difference what we would like?
We voted.
We voted.
57000 complaints from people who believe their rights have been violatedaccording to my calculations, that's .000487 of the population. That means that 99.951% said it was good. Which should I pay attention to? Out of 2000 people, 1 says he didn't like his experience. Wow, that's pretty good. I bet McDonalds what's that ratio. I know GM would like that too.
Democracy begins at home. If the allegations are not investigated fully then I guess you will just have to accept that you live in a faschist dictatorship.I don't think you even know what "faschist" means. Plus, are you even from America? I know lots of people Dexter, and most of them I talked to voted Bush because they believed in him.
The Ukraine voted as well rememberThere is no comparison with that election and our own Dexter. It's comparing Apples to Oranges. In our election we didn't have government vans full of people going from town to town voting. If we did there would have been lots of vans.
I love this one.Not everyone who has a problem with the way the government is run will voice their problems with it. Not that I'm trying to argue with your political views but assuming 99.951% don't have a problem is flat out wrong.Quote57000 complaints from people who believe their rights have been violatedaccording to my calculations, that's .000487 of the population. That means that 99.951% said it was good.
Again, I will say that if there was a shread of real evidence that you're alligations are right, I'd be right here condemming Bush and the republicans for scamming us. But you know what? There is no real shread of evidence that it's real.
If it was the republicans demanding investigations it would be all over the mainstream media and heads would be rolling right now.;D
Guess the fact that the exit polls were spot on where there were paper ballots but WAAAAY of where there was electronic voting is just another wild coincidence
So, You can take a country to war on dodgy evidence and kill 100,000 people but debunk other evidence,Maybe one country Dexter, but you have to explain to me why the UK and Austraila didn't balk at it. I don't think even the UN disputed the evidence at the time.
So I take it you are privvy to the evidence submitted by the Green party and others so far, and have investigated it yourself. To say there is no real shred of evidence is jumping the gun.No. I haven't. Have you? Have you interviewed the people involved? "truthout.org" disagrees with the "drudgreport".
I ask again, are you from America?