Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: met365784 on May 24, 2002, 06:56:11 am
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I'm building an arcade controller for a friend and noticed that both I-pac and Hagstrom both offer USB sollutions. What are the advantages\ disadvantages of using USB over PS\2.
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I don't have the usb version but i have the ps2 version of the ipac. It works fine in all games i've tried including mortal kombat and street fighter. So i guess the only advantage is if you'd rather it be usb.
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I guess I should have been a little clearer, I have and use a ps\2 style encoder and I am happy with it, I am concearned about any limitations that may be present in a usb style encoder, ie max key push at once, problems setting up trackball, ect.
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The encoder it self would be the bottle neck in the number of keys you can hit not the style of connection. You can think of it this way a key stroke would be about 2 bytes of data. A ps2 port is faster than serial. You know you transfer roughly 1200 bytes/sec across a non multiplexed serial connection. So unless you hit 600 Keys a second you won't notice a difference.
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USB makes it plug an play. If you make removable control panels it is a must.
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USB makes it plug an play.
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Sorry, but this is not completely right, unless you wanna buy one controller for each panel, which would be a totally waste of money anyway! ;)
Well, if you use a keyboard encoder. A $5 USB gamepade hack works just as well....
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Well, if you use a keyboard encoder. A $5 USB gamepade hack works just as well....
Right, but why not make it plugable behind your hack? So you have to solder once and are done with that with every panel you'll want to make after. Just think extreme, if you wanna make six controlpanels, it's much cheaper to make one hack with a nice plug behind it (SCSI-1-centronics for example, if you want many connections) then to get six gamepads, right? Also, don't know what kind of gamepads you'll use, but most likely you would need more then one hack for a complete 2up panel with 6 buttons each, right? So instead of having two or more USB-devices to plug in, I guess it's much more easy with one custom plug. Just my thoughts! :)
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As for the PS/2 encoder, you must not unplug it while the computer is running anyway, it could kill your motherboard if you are unlucky! But the encoder'll be connected all the time, you just make a connection of your own after the encoder circuit.
For myself, I made a flatcable where all I-PAC outputs are connected through, and you can plug/unplug it like you want without any problems
So, are you saying that using the Ipac with a PS/2 connector you can still have hot swappable control panels... as long as you make the connections / disconnections between the Ipac and the controls?
So, if I use 25 pin connectors to connect the Ipac to the control panels, I can just unplug them and plug a new one in while the computer is running?
If that is true, it would be great to know. I assumed I could not do that.
TIA,
Rocky
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I did that with my ipac
http://kevin.jonas.com/images/ipac.jpg
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I don't know who's been telling you guys tales, but it's not dangerous in the least to hot-swap ps2 devices. The only danger is that the two keyboards will be so different that it wont' work when you switch em. Same goes for the ipac to controls. It'll work fine. :)
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I'm building an arcade controller for a friend and noticed that both I-pac and Hagstrom both offer USB sollutions. What are the advantages\ disadvantages of using USB over PS\2.
ps/2:
pro: supported by DOS
pro: a stable "standard", with stable drivers
con: the standard has no provisions for unplugging during power on, so there is no guaranty that your MB won't fry if you unplug it with your computer on.
pro: >99.99% will not fry your MB if you unplug. I haven't fried any of mine in ~10 years of plugs and unpugs while computer on.
USB:
pro: faster standard than ps/2 (but not usually noticable by humans)
pro: "plug-n-play" (most of the time) while computer is on or off.
con: needs more power than ps/2
con: needs at least another "mini-driver" (ie: the USB driver)
con: newer standard: possiblity of bad drivers is greater than with ps/2
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So, are you saying that using the Ipac with a PS/2 connector you can still have hot swappable control panels... as long as you make the connections / disconnections between the Ipac and the controls?
Sure, that is in my opinion the perfect way to go! Same with the Opti-Pac, the good thing is that the mouse-driver for this one is still at present, wether you disconnect your panel or not! If you'd do this with an USB-plug, windows will always start the recognizing procedure, although this may take only a second I don't think its very elegant. Anyway, if you have more then one of the same USB-devices, the ID's of them might get mixed up additional when you plug them in a different order, at least this is what I would expect.
don't know who's been telling you guys tales, but it's not dangerous in the least to hot-swap ps2 devices.
Heard & read this from a wide varity of sources, it never happened to me though. (I did this too in the earlier days, where I worked as a computer technican)
Wether there is a risk or not, I see absolutely no point why there is a need for swapping it, so better be on the safe side. Disconnecting after the interface is the way to go, so windows don't has to apply any changes at all.
To add to this discussion, when using the I-PAC you get both of two worlds anyway, so you can switch to USB whenever you feel the need for it. Unfortunately you won't get an USB-Optipac for trackballs and spinners so far, I've seen only a one-trackball & keyboard-interface from Hagstrom that features USB, but not PS/2.
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Anyway, if you have more then one of the same USB-devices, the ID's of them might get mixed up additional when you plug them in a different order, at least this is what I would expect.
Yes, if you have two or more of the exactly the same devices, windows identifies the first one (re)plugged in as device 1 (or the lowest device number that was assigned to that device type during first install). Since this happens each time you re-plug the devices, you have to make sure you plug them in the same order you installed them if you want to keep them in the same order.
Example: You have two of the same model USB gamepads, one that you hacked into a control panel. You install the hacked gamepad, then the non-hacked one. As long as you don't unplug them, the hacked pad will control player 1, the other player 2. If you unplug both, however, and replug the non-hacked one first and then the hacked second, the non-hacked will now be player 1, and the hacked player 2.
(If, however, the brand, make, or model of the gamepads are different, windows can tell, and the player to gamepad won't change.)
This is true for all USB devices (joystick, mouse, ect) when the computer is on; I'm not sure about what happens if the replug happens with the computer is off.
Heard & read this from a wide varity of sources, it never happened to me though. (I did this too in the earlier days, where I worked as a computer technican)
Wether there is a risk or not, I see absolutely no point why there is a need for swapping it, so better be on the safe side. Disconnecting after the interface is the way to go, so windows don't has to apply any changes at all.
Never hurt my computer by plugging/unplugging the ps/2 with the computer on, but the the reason people and manufactures give this warning is because the ps/2 "standard" does not include protecting the motherboard or ps/2 device if the device is plugged or unplugged while the computer is on. Almost all MBs and devices do pretect themselves against a plug/unplug of a ps/2 device, but since the ps/2 standard does not mention it, the manufactures want to cover their as---, err, moneybooks from complaints of dead computers do to unpluging ps/2 devices with the computer on.
Just like you, I have not had problems with plugging or unplugging a ps/2 keyboard or mouse with the computer on, but some weird combination of ps/2 device and motherboard could result in a fried MB or device since the manufactures don't have a comon standard to rely that the others will follow.
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Thanx, u_rebelscum! :)
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The danger of hot plug ps/2 comes from a fusable link on the MB protecting the ground line.
I have blown one but it can be jumpered (i.e. not a total disaster) you do have to find it first though! ;D
also, I usually don't worry about it because I have only blown one out in 10+ years and that was a pretty old pc anyway...
-C
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Never hurt my computer by plugging/unplugging the ps/2 with the computer on, but the the reason people and manufactures give this warning is because the ps/2 "standard" does not include protecting the motherboard or ps/2 device if the device is plugged or unplugged while the computer is on.