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Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: Ed ONeill on June 07, 2004, 09:44:27 pm

Title: Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: Ed ONeill on June 07, 2004, 09:44:27 pm

Hi all,
I originally was going to use 6 buttons until I heard that it is bettter to set it up as a 7 button layout for use with the neo-geo games.

so what I am looking for is a template for a 7 button layout .

Also is it better to curve/fan  the buttons or keep them in a straight row 3 on top 4 on botton or vice versa.

Thanks
Ed

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: Thenasty on June 07, 2004, 10:10:21 pm

mine is

   x  x  x
   x  x  x
x

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: Apollo on June 07, 2004, 10:18:49 pm

Get 7 buttons and a joystick, mount them on cardboard, keep doing this till you get a set up that is comfortable for you, use that.

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: RecycledPast on June 07, 2004, 10:23:44 pm

Here's a 6 button template for the classic street figher setup;
http://www.arcadecontrols.com/files/Uploads/Template_Capcom_2P-6B.gif (http://www.arcadecontrols.com/files/Uploads/Template_Capcom_2P-6B.gif)

Use that then figure out where the 7th button fits best for your thumb.

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: JAZ on June 08, 2004, 01:50:17 am

Why have a seventh button?

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: JoyMonkey on June 08, 2004, 07:47:35 am

Quote from: JAZ on June 08, 2004, 01:50:17 am

Why have a seventh button?

I think it's because NeoGeo games use a layout with the four buttons pretty much side by side like this:
(http://images.webmagic.com/klov.com/images/N/nNeo_Geo_MVS.jpg)
http://images.webmagic.com/klov.com/images/N/nNeo_Geo_MVS.jpg

To keep that layout, but add enough buttons to play StreetFighter you'd add 3 more buttons under or above buttons 2, 3 and 4. That way you'd have your buttons in the same configuration as both NeoGeo and 6 button fighters.

I think. ?

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: Tiger-Heli on June 08, 2004, 08:09:13 am

NOTE:  This is all personal preference and comes down to what feels right for YOU.

The best advice is probably what Apollo said about testing til you get the right feel.

Quote from: Ed ONeill on June 07, 2004, 09:44:27 pm

Also is it better to curve/fan  the buttons or keep them in a straight row 3 on top 4 on botton or vice versa.

Option A:
    x   x    x
    x   x    x
x

I have also seen:
   x   x   x   x
   x   x   x

Whether to curve/fan the buttons or not probably depends on how die-hard of a SF fan you are.  I never got into it a lot, and prefer the curved button layout.

Also whether the top or bottom row is button 1 (for most games) depends on preference as well.

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: vputz on June 08, 2004, 10:16:22 am

So here's a silly question...

I went ahead and did the 7-button setup as described (but curved), ie

  X X X
  X X X
X

...and then ran into a problem.  I don't know how to wire that thumb button.  With neo-geo games that would be what, button #4?

   1 2 3
   4 5 6
 4

...but that of course duplicates buttons.  Or would it really be button 7?

   1 2 3
   4 5 6
 7

...but then the mapping would be off for any games that used it...

Basically, I'm just confused about the use of that button.  How do most people have it wired?

-->VPutz

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: Tiger-Heli on June 08, 2004, 10:26:21 am

Quote from: vputz on June 08, 2004, 10:16:22 am

Basically, I'm just confused about the use of that button.  How do most people have it wired?

For Neo-Geo Games - it's supposed to be

   2  3  4
1

If you don't have seven encoder inputs, you can re-use either 4, 5, 6 or 1, 2, 3, (depending on which row you plan to use with Neo-Geo) for the thumb button.  Either way, you will need to customize your inputs (ctrl.ini files) for the Neo-Geo games.

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: Ed ONeill on June 08, 2004, 01:48:13 pm

Ok so I know neo geo is :
 2 3 4  
1

but when using SF it is :
1 2 3
4 5 6

Could I do this

1 2 3 4
4 5 6

That way Sf fans wouldn't have a problem and neo geo fans would have to suffer a little with having th 4 buttons in a staight row

Personally I play mostly classics but when friends/family comeover that might be a diffrent story.

Thanks in advance
ED

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: Tiger-Heli on June 08, 2004, 01:51:10 pm

Quote from: Ed ONeill on June 08, 2004, 01:48:13 pm

Could I do this

1 2 3 4
4 5 6

That way Sf fans wouldn't have a problem and neo geo fans would have to suffer a little with having th 4 buttons in a staight row

Yes, I've seen that done before.  That's one of the things I was getting at.

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: Ed ONeill on June 08, 2004, 02:20:05 pm

Thanks Tiger-Heli

I haven't got my minipac yet they tried to deliver it to my house yestarday... I can't beleive the guy didn't see me in the driveway cutting wood.

I decided to make a mame machine out of a laptopbefore getting ivolved with a full cab mame machine. Sort of like a trial thing.

Anyways, I will be posting pictures in the project anouncements as soon as I get the buttons installed .

I am thinking of the names
"MAME on The MOVE" or
"Briefcase MAME"

Quote from: Apollo on June 07, 2004, 10:18:49 pm

Get 7 buttons and a joystick, mount them on cardboard, keep doing this till you get a set up that is comfortable for you, use that.

I may take you suggestion apollo,

 However , I am curious as to who let the cat out of the bag.

How did you know my wife works for 2 major sneaker companies Converse/Nike?

I actually happen to wear size 9 which is the sample size...can you say FREEBIES.......so you can imagine how many shoe boxes are hanging around./..LOL

Signed
Ed

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: Apollo on June 08, 2004, 05:02:44 pm

He he that's weird I was going to suggest shoe boxes, they are perfect for what I suggested.

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: Ed ONeill on June 09, 2004, 02:41:08 pm

apollo..... My  project is actually called MAME on the MOVE. It's a a portable MAME machine made out of a wine box and a laptop. So the control panel isn't much bigger than a shoebox...LOL

Ok so I used the 6 player(SF)  layout that recycled past posted and I am not sure but it seems that ths buttons are two far apart they are a 1/4 of an inch apart . I am a classics gamer, very rarely play the6 button  fighting games  so I am not  too sure.

Can anyone tell me what the measurement between their buttons is?

BTW I ended up using the template and adding the exta button on the top in a straight row .

Example
 x x x x
 x x x  

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: Tiger-Heli on June 09, 2004, 03:07:45 pm

Quote from: Ed ONeill on June 09, 2004, 02:41:08 pm

Can anyone tell me what the measurement between their buttons is?

Short answer is 1.5 inches center to center.

From my old FAQ page:

Happ lists their buttons as having a 1.3-inch wide face.

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: Witchboard on June 09, 2004, 03:22:08 pm

Quote from: Ed ONeill on June 09, 2004, 02:41:08 pm

Can anyone tell me what the measurement between their buttons is?

I put mine as close as I could together.  The nuts on the back are actually touching.  What can I say, my wife has small hands. 8)

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: Apollo on June 09, 2004, 05:36:22 pm

My button centres are exactly 1.5748" apart. That is 40mm, lol.

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: Ed ONeill on June 14, 2004, 10:45:49 am

So I went to the arcade this weekend and found a street fighter game. I wanted to measure them but all I had was a pocket full of quarters so that is how I measured. and I

Well the buttons are three quarters (thickness) between them...LOL

So I am not sure what the exact measurement is.

 thanks everyone for posting there measurements I will look closely at all my options.

Apollo....man talking about being precise, what are you using a digital tapemeasure...LOL

Signed
ED

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: Tiger-Heli on June 14, 2004, 11:08:16 am

>Apollo....man talking about being precise, what are you using a >digital tapemeasure...LOL

Apollo's from one of the "land down under"'s .  I'm pretty sure he just converted from mm to inches as a convenience to us.

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: SoundDoc on June 14, 2004, 11:29:34 am

Just to throw my button layout into the mix:

http://dacab.datplace.com/images/Button%20Layout-Model.jpg

Its based on somone elses, so I can't take 100% credit.

SD

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: PedroSilva on June 14, 2004, 11:42:43 am

Hi,

Here's mine ...

(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid87/p839c703a37079a02c537770ce28e2480/faa0a189.jpg)

Hope this confuses you a little more ... helps ... I meant helps ...  ;D

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: Sylentwulf on June 14, 2004, 01:04:07 pm

Just another 2 cents. I'm planning on:

   1 2 3
   4 5 6
1

Just edit the neogeo config for buttons 1,4,5,6 instead of 1,2,3,4

(Side note, will that WORK? don't wanna thread hijack, but while I'm on topic.....)

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: Ed ONeill on June 14, 2004, 01:27:22 pm

 Sylentwulf ,

From what everyone has said......

The easiest way  without reconfiguring mame ,would be

1234
456

or basically like PedroSilva cp
  234
1
  56
4

But I am sure  there must be  other ways to do it.

Signed
Ed

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: SirPoonga on June 14, 2004, 02:19:56 pm

Sylentwulf,
Yes
http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=20534

With modification of what I said there lets say your buttons are mapped to these keypressed

  ASD
AZXC

Your default.ini file would look like

P1_BUTTON1              "KEYCODE_A"
P1_BUTTON2              "KEYCODE_S"
P1_BUTTON3              "KEYCODE_D"
P1_BUTTON4              "KEYCODE_Z"
P1_BUTTON5              "KEYCODE_X"
P1_BUTTON6              "KEYCODE_C"

your neogeo.ini file would look like

P1_BUTTON1              "KEYCODE_A"
P1_BUTTON2              "KEYCODE_Z"
P1_BUTTON3              "KEYCODE_X"
P1_BUTTON4              "KEYCODE_C"

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: Sylentwulf on June 14, 2004, 06:59:53 pm

Exactly what I was thinking of, thanx poonga :)

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: crashwg on June 15, 2004, 02:30:03 am

The way I'm planning on setting it up is:

   567
 1234

But with a curve to it.  That way, all games that use 4 or less buttons will be easy to use as they're the first buttons your fingers will reach.  <-(made sense to me)  And for any games that use lets say a street fighter layout, that's easily configurable in mame.

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: Ed ONeill on June 17, 2004, 07:36:52 am

Ok so I did a couple of layouts

1234
456
Note button 4 on top row is for neo geo games

when I made the first panel the buttons were to far apart I have now done a second one which is set up the same way but closer and for some reason button 4 on the bottom row is slightly below the other so I am going to make yet another panel/layout but before I do........
.
 I was thinking of droping the 4 button in the top row slightly for the pinky finger , this of course would be the oposite of the original neo geo layout.

here is what I am thinking, the star represent the approximate placement of neo geo 4 th button

123
456 *

I have very limited space so To see wht my current layout/situation is .... looksat the "mame on the move" project anouncement.

I also have a dumb question :
How many neo geo games are there in mame anyways?

Thanks
Ed

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: dvdapex on June 17, 2004, 07:47:21 am

What about:

Neo Geo
  234
1XX

Capcom
  123
 456

So the buttons would be:

 XXX
XXX

It would be sort of a comprimise between the Neo Geo setup and the Capcom setup.  You would only need 6 buttons.

Would the configuration drive an "average" SF player mad?

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: JoyMonkey on June 17, 2004, 07:52:46 am

In the current official Mame build (version 0.83) there are 135 NeoGeo games. Most of them don't even use all four buttons anyway; usually the fighter games make use of all four.

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: Tiger-Heli on June 17, 2004, 08:29:28 am

Quote from: Ed ONeill on June 17, 2004, 07:36:52 am

I was thinking of droping the 4 button in the top row slightly for the pinky finger , this of course would be the oposite of the original neo geo layout.

You might not realize it, but the original Neo-Geo layout is designed for thumb, pointer, index, ring - not pointer, index, ring, pinky - so for a purist, this might not be ideal.  Of course, if you never played the actual game in the arcade, you can use whatever button you want, I just thought this might be of interest.

Title: Re:Template and opinions needed for 7 button layout
Post by: Ed ONeill on June 17, 2004, 08:47:29 am

Ok I realize that what I propose is not exactly perfect but I am trying to come up with a solution to best fit my situation.

The situation is this.......I am making a laptop (portable) mame machine and the control panel  is very small approximately 5"x15". The control panel will only be able to fit a joystick and buttons, so I want to be able to accomidate as many games/people as possible . I personally don't play fighter games, but my 6yr old son loves them,he thinks he is doing/playing more , he actually thinks playing pacman is harder than say teenage mutant ninja turtles.

I would also like to mention that I don't really know how to reconfigure the buttons in mame and the laptop will be used for other purposes than just mame so I will be simply using mame 32.79, so I am not sure i will use arcade os ,or a front end.

Anyways ...like I said there are pictures in the thread
"MAME on the MOVE" under project announcements. Please take a look and see if you can help me out.

Thanks
Ed