Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Artwork => Topic started by: Santoro on May 11, 2004, 02:35:35 pm
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OK, here it is. Please post ideas for the design of our soon-to-be-ordered tokens. (http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=19141;start=0) The guidelines from the manufacturer were as follows:
- Large, sans-serif fonts
- Line art or a few shades of gray
- Relatively simple
- .984 inches in diameter.
- ALL CAPS. (<- added - I forgot this one at first.)
Ideas for inclusion mentioned in the other thread include:
- Some form of PixelHugger's Atomic Mame Logo, simplified
- The Mame text logo
- Ardecontrols.com
- BYOAC
- A Joystick
- An arcade cab
- "Game Not Over"
I will submit some ideas of my own as well later. In a few days we will take some sort of vote and see what we get.
Go to it folks. (and wow, my first sticky!)
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best logo ever. ;D
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Well, you have text around the outside... Then a picture in the middle.
Text possiblities..
1) "Chucky Cheese SUCKS"
2) "Eat me" (with a pacman image)
3) "Build Your Own Arcade"
4) "My Arcade can beat up Your Arcade"
5) "Give me credits or give me Death"
6) "Redeem for sexual favors" (but this depends on who you invite over to play a game of StreetFighter with)
As for images
1) Pacman
2) Joystick
3) Cabinet
4) MAME logo
5) Picture of my face (but one with my good side)... (and NOT the side I sit on!)
6) Bezerker character / sideart logo
7) 1UP
8)
If I come up with more...
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Conceptually...
(black representing raised)
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- I always thought mame cabs need some sort of logo resembling a recycling logo.
- A Pacman character would be nice (instant recognition as opposed to "huh ... what does MAME stand for?")
- Please not the blue MAME logo, Pixelhuggers logo would be a lot better already.
Could the rounded centre of Pixelhugger's logo be made on these tokens? Or does the few shades of gray mean it can only have a few depth levels? I'm guessing this is more something for coin minting right? I wonder how Pixel's logo would look in more or less black and white ...
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I'll bet they could do it. I think if we proposed complex, multi-depth designs they'd have a problem. I will send a email to ask.
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The Pac logo is great - I think I'd like a different "slogan" however. Nothing against the BYOAC phrase, but I personally would like the artwork and text to be more "universal" - i.e., no MAME, no BYOAC...just the concept of preserving and playing arcade games:
- Arcade Games Forever
- Game is Not Over
- Resurrecting the Past
- The Games Live On
- Fun is Forever
- Keeping the Arcade Alive
- One Coin at a Time...
Kevin
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you can go by a bag of "universal" tokens for a fraction of the cost on ebay. I think you pretty much have to put at least a BYOAC design on one side.
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I agree it should have BYOAC on one side and a MAME related logo, love pixelhuggers design, on the other side. By the way Pixel can you post that cool design for BYOAC logo, that kinda looked like the electrician union logo? I think this would finish the token off nicely!
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Not much of an artist here, but one proposal for side A
{edit: bowing in reverence to the masters, I have removed my somewhat lame-by-comparison attempt.}
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I still think that having one side be just the MAME logo would be good.
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Ok... here's my plug for a coin side:
as for the second side, I'd vote for a stylized version of the atomic MAME, if it comes out ok (unless something else pops up that's better). As it is, the atomic mame has to many shades of colors to work well.
- Calawala
edit: doh... let's try attaching that pict again
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Well heres my first rendition
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I can manipulate photos a bit but I can't out and out draw, so I'll just have to describe it:
A silhouette of a man playing a cab in profile with whatever slogan strikes your fancy around the edge (Build Your Own Arcade Controls is cool with me), and the MAME atomic logo on the back, simplified.
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By the way Pixel can you post that cool design for BYOAC logo, that kinda looked like the electrician union logo?
Obviously, I'd have to reinterpret the joystick diagram which currently comes from Happs' schematics, but that'd be necessary anyway to simplify it. If I can finish up with other BYOAC graphics commitments *pixel ducks*, I'll post a bunch of other ideas, including a simplified atomic Mame logo.
I also like the "Player One" icon idea someone tossed out.
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I love this, but I think the text might be too small... :'(
Also this reminded me - I went over my notes again and I neglected to mention that the text must be ALL CAPS. I added it to the requirements above.
Here are some examples to get an idea of the level of complexity they can do:
http://www.tokensdirect.com/Page1.html (http://www.tokensdirect.com/Page1.html)
http://www.tokensdirect.com/OurDesigns.pdf (http://www.tokensdirect.com/OurDesigns.pdf)
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I will put in a third vote for the player-1 guy. I can't remember offhand which font set contained that character.
The only problem is that non-gamers might think it is the symbol for the men's room. ;D
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AmericanDemon,
That logo looks very cool! I'd love to see the website address instead of the BYOAC, not everyone builds their own controls, but all of us build the cabinets somehow... the website address is a little more general. (just my 2 tokens)
Art
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In looking at the samples of their token detail, it looks as though they are capable of pretty intricate work (like the small stars on the Playhouse token). The type on my previous post could easily be enlarged to the size of the No Cash Value on the Sports Plus token (if I remove the URL).
Here's a rough example of what the atomic logo could look like in metal relief.
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:o
That is just so cooooool Pixel!!!
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As much as I don't want MAME on the tokens, those look Damned good!
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Easily revised to read BYOAC with URL etc ;)
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Personally, I like the MAME logo that pixelhugger came up with. On an earlier one, he had the slogan "Better living through better gaming"
Change it to "better living through gaming" and put it on the other side. I like that a lot.
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Here is the token I made for my home. Feel free to liberate any ideas from it.
Obviously Surgeville could be changed to BYOAC or MAME or whatever you want.
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Pixel, could you put "GAME NOT OVER" somewhere on there? Or perhaps use it as the custom back side?
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I'll put in another (repeat) vote for the player one silhoutte guy on one side and pixelhugger's logo on the other.
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Do shades of grey translate to depth of image? Something like black being deepest, white is highest and depth of grey equals depth of stamping. The liberty head logo on the generic designs had that kind of detail. Perhaps Pixelhugger's design could include the spheres!
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I was wondering the same thing, like z-mapping I think it's called. Or maybe the different levels were achieved using some sort of CAD or DXF file. Hmmmm
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Not that my design is any good... but I just had to try Pixel's nifty coin preview technique. ;D
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Note that their site says that die charges may be higher for complex designs.
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Note that their site says that die charges may be higher for complex designs.
FWIW, That was the case for the Hoffman Mint, but Tokens Direct confirmed there was only one fee - $195. I confirmed it on the phone.
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I'll put in another (repeat) vote for the player one silhoutte guy on one side and pixelhugger's logo on the other.
I like that idea as well. Perhaps the "Game Not Over" logo on the side with the player one guy?
Kevin
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Note that their site says that die charges may be higher for complex designs.
FWIW, That was the case for the Hoffman Mint, but Tokens Direct confirmed there was only one fee - $195. I confirmed it on the phone.
Weird that Tokens Direct still mention that on their site then.
Maybe if the design is generic enough they will accept it as a new "stock" design? Allthough then I guess you must give them the right to produce coins based on that design from then on.
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Weird that Tokens Direct still mention that on their site then.
Maybe if the design is generic enough they will accept it as a new "stock" design? Allthough then I guess you must give them the right to produce coins based on that design from then on.
But if the design is going to be that generic, why bother?
If I were doing it, I would do a custom on the front and a stock on the back. Surgeville's token, although custom on both sides, is an excellent example: his "NO CASH VALUE" and "GOOD AT ALL SURGEVILLE LOCATIONS" gives the token a feel of realism, and that's what many of us are trying to recreate. Nothing screams "game room" as much as some of the stock "no cash value" designs...
Anyway, this is all irrelevant to me as I probably won't be buying them (I have quarter mechs), but I thought I'd throw it out there. If I did, though, it'd be for Pixelhugger's revised atomic logo on the front and a generic NO CASH VALUE on the back.
--Chris
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I will ask again for clarity. Keep in mind, I did specify "relatively simple" in the specs. If we don't push the limits of that I think we will be OK.
They want out of thier way to say that the die would only be for my use. If we gave them the ability to use it again, I would want them to waive the $200 fee!
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as I probably won't be buying them (I have quarter mechs), but I thought I'd throw it out there.
Did you see the links in the original thread about adusting Quarter mechs for other tokens? The concensus seems to be that it is somewhat trivial on many models.
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Weird that Tokens Direct still mention that on their site then.
Maybe if the design is generic enough they will accept it as a new "stock" design? Allthough then I guess you must give them the right to produce coins based on that design from then on.
But if the design is going to be that generic, why bother?
If I were doing it, I would do a custom on the front and a stock on the back. Surgeville's token, although custom on both sides, is an excellent example: his "NO CASH VALUE" and "GOOD AT ALL SURGEVILLE LOCATIONS" gives the token a feel of realism, and that's what many of us are trying to recreate. Nothing screams "game room" as much as some of the stock "no cash value" designs...
Anyway, this is all irrelevant to me as I probably won't be buying them (I have quarter mechs), but I thought I'd throw it out there. If I did, though, it'd be for Pixelhugger's revised atomic logo on the front and a generic NO CASH VALUE on the back.
--Chris
I mean, they have a token with a clown, F1 car, space shuttle on it. How generic is that? Apparently they will use pretty specific images as "generic" stock designs. I guess using MAME or BYOAC won't work, but something like Pixels logo with ARCADE instead of MAME in the middle would probably be generic enough (and if you ask me be much more approptiate for us too)
Besides the plans are for 2 sides each costing $200 extra. You could also have one more generic (but still a cool design) and one with a custom name.
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Easily revised to read BYOAC with URL etc ;)
What about the Atomic Logo, but instead of the word 'MAME" the logo has 'BYOAC' in the same font? Then around the logo could be the URL and "GAME NOT OVER" or another slogan?That would get a lot of things on there that we want.
I was also thinking that we should decide as a group first whether or not we want MAME to appear in order to reduce unneccesary effort on the part of our artists. I would hate to start yet another thread, but we could do a poll...... Thoughts?
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You know, with the URL on it, these tokens ame an INCREDIBLE calling card for the site! When you talk to someone who shows an interest, hand 'em a token...
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I was also thinking that we should decide as a group first whether or not we want MAME to appear in order to reduce unneccesary effort on the part of our artists. I would hate to start yet another thread, but we could do a poll...... Thoughts?
I was thinking the exact same thing ...
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Here is the token I made for my home. Feel free to liberate any ideas from it.
Obviously Surgeville could be changed to BYOAC or MAME or whatever you want.
This is really a nice touch. Who did you use?
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There seem to be several folks who don't want BYOAC on these tokens. Why? You wouldn't be reading this if you weren't into BYOAC heavy enough to have built your own arcade machine!
Similarly, some people have said that they don't want M.A.M.E. on the tokens; I guess that makes a -little- more sense. There probably are are some people reading this that only use DAPHNE or MESS or something. And there are folks like me, that don't actually have a box running M.A.M.E. (yet) but are still using this info from this site to rebuild actual arcade machines. Same deal for the pinball people. Still, really, how many people are we talking about here? I'm confident that the overwhelming majority of the people reading this use M.A.M.E.
If we don't have B.Y.O.A.C. on the tokens, and we don't have M.A.M.E. either, what HAVE we got? "Arcade"on one side and "1 Credit" on the other? If that's what you want, just click here:
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&ht=1&from=R10&satitle=tokens+arcade
Myself, I got into this looking for something custom, not generic.
-Kremmit
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I love Pixels Atomic Design. If he were to stick BYOAC in place of MAME I would love it. Maybe see if the One Player character fits in the O.
Go ahead and Poll it!
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Myself, I got into this looking for something custom, not generic.
-Kremmit
You mistake "custom" for "must have MAME or BYOAC logo on it". I think the idea is that people don't have anything against BYOAC (or even MAME) on the token per se, but personally I don't mind if it's not on there either. Something more directly recognisable (for friends/familly coming over) and arcade related would work just as well in making the tokens custom.
:edit: Actually I think most people would like to have the BYOAC logo on the token (have only seen very few nay sayers on that one) but not a MAME one.
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I definately think the token should have the web address and/or the text "Build Your Own Arcade Controls" because these tokens are being offered for members of this website. Otherwise, really, what would be the point?
The MAME atomic logo looks great BTW and I would love to see it on the token (either with or without MAME).
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As I guessed, Pixelhugger's design looks great on a token. I'd buy tokens with that design regardless of whether it stays as a MAME logo or is changed to BYOAC. For what it's worth I really do think they should have the url on them somewhere.
-S
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If we don't have B.Y.O.A.C. on the tokens, and we don't have M.A.M.E. either, what HAVE we got? "Arcade"on one side and "1 Credit" on the other? If that's what you want, just click here:
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&ht=1&from=R10&satitle=tokens+arcade
Myself, I got into this looking for something custom, not generic.
It is worth noting, though, that 200 generic tokens from Happ is $34, so the price really isn't the issue...
I personally like MAME on the tokens, but my cabinet is heavily MAME themed: MAME sideart, MAME marquee, MAME boot screen, and MAME on the CP. But I think the BYOAC URL is important, so my vote would be for the atomic logo with or without "BYOAC" on it, and the URL around the edge, back side generic.
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Here is the token I made for my home. Feel free to liberate any ideas from it.
Obviously Surgeville could be changed to BYOAC or MAME or whatever you want.
This is really a nice touch. Who did you use?
I used Hoffman Mint for my tokens. I didn't shop around at all though. They seemed friendly and were very willing to work with me, and that goes a long way.
For my two cents. I was debating heavely on whether to use MAME or not, but I chose to go with a complete Surgeville theme. My whole gameroom is Surgeville and my tokens work for all my machines.
I really do think that these community tokens should address the community in some way. Putting "arcade" on it does not give it a unique feel. The majority of people are going to use these for MAME machines and MAME should probably be on it. But just in case most people will use many different machines with these tokens, then maybe MAME isn't the best choice. But something should be on the token that addresses the community of BYOACers.
Also, if you have many machines in your place, think if 200 tokens is enough for you. When I throw parties and I have lots of people milling around, especially around the pool table, I go through ALOT of tokens. I ordered 3000 for just me and although YES i do have more than enough, I don't feel that I bought too many. They get used and I don't have to constantly worry about fishing them out of the machines.
Anyway, have fun!
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I would definately like to see the BYOAC logo or something of the sort on these tokens. I don't care if it really says MAME or not though because I have other emulators than just MAME on my machine.
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hat_logo.jpg
Pixel, this logo is AWESOME! it should be on the coin, can you produce what it could look on a coin like you did for your mame logo? Just my 2 cents, I already have player one symbol on my player one button.
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I don't care one way or the other about BYOAC or MAME being on them, although I would prefer it if they were not overly prominent. What I would really like to see, though, is Game Not Over. Most "in the spirit," in my opinion.
By the way, really like AmericanDemon's design and mention of the 1 Player symbol. Two of the most recognisable and universal symbols, I think.
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I don't care one way or the other about BYOAC or MAME being on them, although I would prefer it if they were not overly prominent. What I would really like to see, though, is Game Not Over. Most "in the spirit," in my opinion.
For some reason, I've never liked "Game Not Over". I am, however, fond of "Extended Play"...
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I'm voting for the player 1 guy with the "Game not over" text around the perimiter on 1 side, the other i'll leave up to you all ;D
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I don't care one way or the other about BYOAC or MAME being on them, although I would prefer it if they were not overly prominent. What I would really like to see, though, is Game Not Over. Most "in the spirit," in my opinion.
For some reason, I've never liked "Game Not Over". I am, however, fond of "Extended Play"...
I never did either, actually. Reminds me of something this weird kid in my grade school used to always say. But it's something I can live with.
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Rather than inviting more chaos with a new poll, I am going to lay down some guidelines based on the feedback provided so far to give us some much-needed direction. In turn this will make it easier for the artists to focus in on a really cool design.
First, I see a majority emerging that is pro-BYOAC and anti-MAME. I fall into the BYOAC camp myself. I feel strongly that this community, BYOAC, is what draws us together and should be the central focus of the tokens. I will be a lot more comfortable if the tokens focus on BYOAC. MAME is important, but only secondarily so. If it is mentioned at all, it should be small.
Second, we should also steer clear of being too generic. I could lose money due to unsold tokens if they are undifferentiated from the generic ones on the market. Because of this, 'Arcade' and even, in retrospect, my own "Home Amusements" are too generic and should be avoided.
Third, there is strong demand for some flavor of PixelHugger's Atomic Logo, and I personally think it is a shoe-in. I hope PH will be able to continue to assist, because that logo rocks!
Fourth, Player 1 Guy comes up as a popular option.
Ultimately we need to produce something that the 'market' wants. Based on what I have seen, here is my strong suggestion for the base elements of the tokens:
Side A- Atomic Logo, BYOAC, URL
Side B - Start 1 Guy, "Game not over" or similar slogan
I have faith that will all of the graphic design talent we can still get a wide variety of different tokens from this foundation.
{edit: added "or similar slogan"}
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A BYOAC/Atomic logo on one side and Player 1/Game Not Over on the flip side is something I can live with.
A variation of the "Game Not Over" slogan I'm using in a RetroBlast T-shirt design I'm working on uses the phrase:
"The Game is Never Over!"
I don't know how everyone feels about that one, but I'll throw it out for consideration.
Kevin
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"The Game is Never Over!"
I like it.
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"The Game is Never Over!"
I second that. :)
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so was "better living through gaming" effectively killed?? I like it the best.
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so was "better living through gaming" effectively killed?? I like it the best.
I like that too. I don't feel too strongly about which "gaming is good" catchphrase we use.
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I'm willing to buy, but only if it has Pixelhugger's MAME logo on it. Someone mentioned that a non gamer wouldn't know what MAME ment, but not with this logo that spells it out. The back with a player one symbol would look good, and someone might think that it was a bathroom sign on it. That is, unless something like "Better Living Through Gaming," or "Game Not Over" ideas that others already mentioned. Personally, I think that "1 Credit [horizontal figure 8/infinity symbol] Plays" would look cool to accompany the 1-P symbol.
Or you could just have that on the back alone. Really though, having the 1-P symbol represents us, the single guy who created and plays the machine. The infinite plays statement is representative of the conquest to create a machine that could play every game we ever wanted as many times as we want. I see the point of then including the BYOAC on it too, because many people couldn't build their machines without the help of this community. So, that could be across the bottom under the 1-P kind of like where the USA goes on a nickle.
You all must really excuse my picture, but I am on a break a work and don't have any graphics software here. Just for a visual representation of what I'm talking about, I included the quickest and roughest sketch known to man.
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Okay, here's my idea for the front based on the atomic design:
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"The Game is Never Over!"
I second that. :)
I secondly second that. I also like "Better Living Through Gaming" (fit in perfectly with the Atomic icon for that nice 50s retro champ).
Anyway, both would make me smile.
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"The Game is Never Over!"
I like it.
until the power goes out :'(
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Okay, here's my idea for the front based on the atomic design:
He, he. nice. Maybe the electrons in the atomic logo could have a "pacman mouth" ;D
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Here is an idea for the 2nd side:
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Here's my idea for the back:
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Thats a cool design Pixel, but I still like your atomic MAME for side 1 better
edit: oops... not Pixel... it should read Chris...sorry :-\
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I guess I'll add my input here.
I think having either BYOAC or MAME is a good idea, but maybe vary which is more prominent. After all, I'd expect MAME to be a large part of most cabs people have put together, and "MAME" is a lot easier to say than "BYOAC", ya know? Although BYOAC is why this idea came around, so maybe both can be included somehow.
Personally, I don't like the player 1 symbol. Like someone said, it also stands for "bathroom", and the guy is just standing there doing nothing. I think we can create something better or more interesting.
The atomic design is pretty cool, I suppose that's the same feeling all around. I like how it has some detail besides just one small symbol and bland text. We gotta try for that sweet spot - a token that looks really good, but without getting too detailed and raising costs.
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I cleaned up my suggested token back a bit:
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"The Game is Never Over!"
I like it.
until the power goes out :'(
What, you don't have a UPS in your cab? ;)
Kevin
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Chris,
This is a little more interesting than "bathroom guy". I also like the cabinet. Anyone else like it?
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I like Chris' "happy player 1", although I think he might need some feet.
Kevin
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I like Chris' "happy player 1", although I think he might need some feet.
That's the Atari Player 1 icon as seen on Centipede and Missile Command. He never had feet.
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I note everyone has the text going around the circle in the same direction. The top of the coin should have the text facing up, and the bottom of the coin should have it the same way. If I had Corel Draw installed I'd show a picture of what I meant.
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I like Chris' "happy player 1", although I think he might need some feet.
That's the Atari Player 1 icon as seen on Centipede and Missile Command. He never had feet.
Aha! I knew I had met him before ;)
Good choice, then, just as is.
Kevin
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I like it. Although the player icon no longer feels like a "Player One start" to me, it's more like a fun image of someone playing a machine, which is OK but not quite as iconic or logo like. Maybe remove the cab? Or would that feel too Ymca? ;) Using the Atari style character definitely helps avoid the bathroom reference!
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I note everyone has the text going around the circle in the same direction. The top of the coin should have the text facing up, and the bottom of the coin should have it the same way. If I had Corel Draw installed I'd show a picture of what I meant.
For my "back", I agree with you. For my "front", since the image itself has no correct orientation, I think the text works going all the way around...
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I like it. Although the player icon no longer feels like a "Player One start" to me, it's more like a fun image of someone playing a machine...
This was precisely the intent. It says "arcade" to those who don't recognize it as the start logo, and it's an icon to those of us who do. (I played a LOT of Atari games as a kid, so I identify more with this logo than the bathroom guy logo.)
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One question since I didn't play with tokens very often back when- what does 'extended play' refer to? Why wouldn't it say "good for 1 credit" or "good for 1 game?"
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I kinda liked the way the player one symbol came out **insert biased disclaimer here**. I thought it's simplicity provided a good contrast to the relatively busy design of the atomic MAME.
I do like Chris's "happy player" design though, it's definately more of a complete design... though it kinda makes me wanna sing "Y-M-C-A" /duck
One thing I think we should do regardless: if we are to have a MAME design on one side, the other side should mention BYOAC, www.arcadecontrols.com, etc...
I do know what you mean Peale. But, I'm not sure if I know how to do that with Paint Shop Pro.
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Here's the back with the bottom text flipped:
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One question since I didn't play with tokens very often back when- what does 'extended play' refer to? Why wouldn't it say "good for 1 credit" or "good for 1 game?"
A real token wouldn't say that. Many very old games were timed, and by hitting a certain score or goal you could extend that time, which was called "Extended Play". (cf. Starship I, Pole Position, etc.) In this case, "Extended Play" is used as a metaphor for "Game Not Over".
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Extended Play is just a phrase, meaning that this token will give you more play time than it used to, once again kinda referring back to the emulation scene. :)
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Looks like we're not the first to think of an atomic token...
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I've been playing with Illustrator a bit. How *do* you get the text on the bottom to be aligned that way? I've tried a dozen different ways, but when I flip it, it flips to the inside of the circle.
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I've been playing with Illustrator a bit. How *do* you get the text on the bottom to be aligned that way? I've tried a dozen different ways, but when I flip it, it flips to the inside of the circle.
I don't know. I use Corel Draw.
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Didn't come out completely the way I wanted but here goes:
(http://arcade.laweb.nl/BYOAC/FossilToken.jpg)
It's supposed to be Pacman fossil. Like this:
(http://arcade.laweb.nl/BYOAC/030812_rajasaurus02_n.jpeg)
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I kinda like my back with Pixelhugger's front. Thus, here's one where I've changed the font to match his and thickened up the lines a bit:
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Chris, this keeps getting better. I like the spacing of the cab from the border. I also like the idea of your design on one side with the atomic logo on the other.
PixelHugger, I know that you are busy - If you can take a crack at the atomic logo with BYOAC as the text that would be awesome. (Though if you are too busy I am sure someone will step up to the plate. Just say the word. I know I hate when people give me tasks when I'm not around! ;) )
I think we are pretty close. Barring any new entrants that enthrall the group, I don't think we need more than a day or two to wrap the design up.
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Chris, this keeps getting better. I like the spacing of the cab from the border. I also like the idea of your design on one side with the atomic logo on the other.
PixelHugger, I know that you are busy - If you can take a crack at the atomic logo with BYOAC as the text that would be awesome. (Though if you are too busy I am sure someone will step up to the plate. Just say the word. I know I hate when people give me tasks when I'm not around! ;) )
I think we are pretty close. Barring any new entrants that enthrall the group, I don't think we need more than a day or two to wrap the design up.
While we're assigning tasks... ;D
I like the one above of chris's too... Replace "good for extended play" with "arcadecontrols.org".
For the other side, I would like to see the first atomic logo with "mame" (preferred, but may like BYOC too), and write "better living through gaming" around it.
Maybe I'll try to do it in paint... [update] Win 98 paint wont let me work with those file types[/update]
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I was thinking the same thing as the guy above. The atomic logo with a MAME reference, and possibly this other one on the back, replacing "extended play" with the URL or a reference to BYOAC.
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Patrick, I don't know how everyone else feels about that, but I find it original and a clever use of imaging to get your point (classic) across. I also find it a bit funny, kinda Jurassic Park-ish....mebbe add a Pac-Ghost skeleton too! LOL
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Here's my version of Pixelhugger's atomic logo using his font, my text, the URL flipped, and BYOAC instead of MAME:
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Oops... here's an update. I fixed spacing and alignment problems in the URL and tightened up the atom:
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Both those designs are lookin real sharp Chris. The BYOAC letters seem a little busy to me though. Too many lines.
And for the heck of it, I changed the font on the bathroom token. Dunno where you got the font from, I tried to match it as close as I could.
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Both those designs are lookin real sharp Chris. The BYOAC letters seem a little busy to me though. Too many lines.
I was trying to match Pixelhugger's design; although it does look a bit cleaner with MAME than BYOAC, I'd stil be happy to have a token with it. BYOAC may need to be solid...
And for the heck of it, I changed the font on the bathroom token. Dunno where you got the font from, I tried to match it as close as I could.
It's Handel Gothic, by Bitstream. Came with CorelDRAW.
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Here it is with BYOAC solid. I like it MUCH better this way!
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How about something along the lines of this for one side (quick slap-together)?
EDIT:
Although Chris's post (reply #97) is kick-ass too ;D ! I just like the "Keeping Memories Alive" a bit better...
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OK. I vote for Chris's designs on both sides (posts 88 & 97) . I think they get the point across very professionally. I'd like to see legs on the happy arcade player, but it's a minor nitpick ::) . I applaude Chris for keeping it centered on Saint's site and not on any emulators. They'll be more functional that way. Some people may want to use them in pinball, actual dedicated cabs, pool tables, vending machines, etc. (yes, you could have these all in a gameroom, my dream room will ;) !) . MAME is too specific for me personally, even though most people use it. But we ALL use BYOAC, so I think it wins out.
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Here it is with BYOAC solid. I like it MUCH better this way!
The electrons and their trails interfere with the lettering. Maybe if you put the electrons at half depth?
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BTW whith regards to "generic" designs discussion earlier, I was referring to something like the coin face that Chris suggested in #88. I imagine a design like that could be accepted as a new stock design (allthough the $10 is of course not really a big deal).
Allthough that "cheering player + cab" design doesn't really "speak" to me like the modified PH Atomic logo does. I cant say what's "wrong" with it, but to me it doesn't have that "oh wow nice" ring to it.
I understand the sides need to be quite generic to satisfy the wishes of the many, but maybe a bit more humor (like a Pacman fossil ;D ) can go on the flip side of the token? For instance:
- Player 1 symbol eaten by Pacman
- AmericanDemon'design (with the Pac Land logo)
- I tried a Ghost Busters logo with a Pac Ghost (but failed)
- I guess an animated coin face is out of the question? :P
- I like the look of Surgeville's token too (especially the logo side)
- Basically something else than a static icon
I also like Surgeville's idea of a date (or maybe just a year is better) on the tokens
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I am worried about the relatively small number of people participating in the feedback process.
Can I assume this means everyone is generally happy with where we are going? Please speak up either way!
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I like the Atomic BYOAC and the player one logo on the flip side. My preference on a motto would be Game Not Over, but I seem to be in a minority there. Year would be cool, but then you have to pay for a new die if you want to do a re-run in another year. For the url, I think just ArcadeControls.com would be fine and is a little less cluttered than adding the www to it. And I woudl think less clutter will lead to a crisper image.
Also, anything designed by committee is going to cause controversy. At some point, you will need to say here is what I'm going to do. You won't be able to please everybody. And if somebody is sufficiently upset, they might do their own run and we have even more prettys for our arcades.
Just my 0.02
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byaoc modified atomic logo is awesome. I really like it. For the other side..... cannot really say that I like the Atari player one nor the 'standard' player one. I love the idea of a date or year for the print run. That'd be tight. I'll review the pics throughout the day today and give my vote for the opposite side. I think we need to set a deadline for the contest. Set it a week from Saturday or something and then put up a poll to obtain the majority's vote.
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Also, anything designed by committee is going to cause controversy. At some point, you will need to say here is what I'm going to do.
I got the same feedback from one of the Mods. I just want to be sure that there will still be interest when I place the order. It seems like as soon as I laid out some guidelines, the 'excitement level' in the threads dropped significantly.
Might just be that there is nothing else to say, who knows.
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I like the Atomic BYOAC and the player one logo on the flip side. My preference on a motto would be Game Not Over
For some reason, "Game Not Over", to me, always sounded like something a small child would say when told it's time to go to bed. It sounds vaguely desperate. like we're trying to convince ourseves that the game is not over when the rest of the world has moved on. "Extended Play", on the other hand, signalled triumph (back in my day), and it delivers a very similar concept.
For the url, I think just ArcadeControls.com would be fine and is a little less cluttered than adding the www to it.
From a design standpoint, "www" offsets "com" perfectly, allowing "arcadecontrols" to be centered in the bottom of the coin, so I think although it would look less cluttered without it, it would look less satisfying.
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I was just looking back at my original front, and I just wanted to throw these side by side in case anyone is considering the two options...
(http://www.arcadecontrols.com/files/Uploads/BYOAC_Token_Front.gif)(http://www.arcadecontrols.com/files/Uploads/BYOAC_Token_Front_4.gif)
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Here it is with BYOAC solid. I like it MUCH better this way!
The electrons and their trails interfere with the lettering. Maybe if you put the electrons at half depth?
Has anyone confirmed that we get a "half-depth"?
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Here is the front and back of the latest versions side-by-side, so it's easier to imagine what this will be like as a finished token:
(http://www.arcadecontrols.com/files/Uploads/BYOAC_Token_Front_4.gif)(http://www.arcadecontrols.com/files/Uploads/BYOAC_Token_Back_4.gif)
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edited: Never mind, I re-read the question and it made sense. I am 99% sure we can request the Atom trails to be lower than the BYOAC.
Saint, I am beginning to think that this Token could make a nice Logo for the website too!
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This is what I was talking about...
Also removed "www", couldn't center it on paint, but should be.
What do you think?
(Still holding on to "Better living through gaming")
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I like the Atomic BYOAC and the player one logo on the flip side. My preference on a motto would be Game Not Over
For some reason, "Game Not Over", to me, always sounded like something a small child would say when told it's time to go to bed. It sounds vaguely desperate. like we're trying to convince ourseves that the game is not over when the rest of the world has moved on. "Extended Play", on the other hand, signalled triumph (back in my day), and it delivers a very similar concept.
For the url, I think just ArcadeControls.com would be fine and is a little less cluttered than adding the www to it.
From a design standpoint, "www" offsets "com" perfectly, allowing "arcadecontrols" to be centered in the bottom of the coin, so I think although it would look less cluttered without it, it would look less satisfying.
I see your point on the www and you've swung me to the darkside there.
As for Game Not Over, to me that is another way of saying that the classics live on (through MAME, BYOAC, collectors, etc) and are not lost forever. Maybe it is more of a MAME motto.
Edited to add this idea
Instead of some sort of motto, what about a small pac man and a series of dots for him to eat (and maybe a ghost to balance things out) around the top and www.arcadecontrols.com around the bottom?
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I'm throwing my vote for MMMPeanutButter's motto (Better Living Through Gaming). You have a BYOAC mention on both sides, and the slogan fits in perfectly. And I like both design sides too.
edited: I said logo instead of motto
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I think we should keep the BYOAC references on one side in case we decide later to use the Happy Guy side for a different run of tokens, for example a MAME run of tokens.
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My current thoughts:
I like the "Atomic Pac Man" coin side by Chris, and the Atari Player 1 side.
The "BYOAC" logo is just going to have me answering "Bye-O-Ack, it means Build Your Own Arcade Controls" all day long. ArcadeControls.com is something people can figure out on their own... :)
I'm still partial to the "The Game is Never Over" slogan, obviously ;)
ArcadeControls.com or www.arcadecontrols.com, either's fine by me.
I like the suggestion of one side of the token ringed by dots and Pac-man/Ghost icons.
Kevin
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I think we should keep the BYOAC references on one side in case we decide later to use the Happy Guy side for a different run of tokens, for example a MAME run of tokens.
We could always remove the arcadecontrols.com from the back and change the byoac on the front to byoac.com and leave the rest as I have above.
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I think the basic pics Chris posted above look pretty cool for a final design. Maybe we can tuck a small MAME logo on the cab? I don't know how many were opposed to having MAME on the token, but I think it'd be ok to have a small reference on there.
Anyhow, I think the text could use a little work. Not really a fan of the "extended play" line, and the "building memories" seems strange, although I guess that's related to the site and building controls. "better living through gaming" doesn't feel right either.
I agree "game not over" is a bit strong, maybe something like "the games will never die", keeping with the preservation theme and sounding better than the first line. I kinda like the "no cash value" line, and the ring of dots with a pac-man sounds good but I'd have to see it first.
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so far I like post #111 the best--although the YMCA guy bugs me--if someone had never mentioned YMCA I never would have thought of it but now I can't get the damn song from my head :P
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Would it be possible to play a bit with the depth of the coin design?
(http://arcade.laweb.nl/BYOAC/BYOAC_Depth.jpg)
I made the electrons a bit more rounded and added several depth levels to clean up the bounding lines somewhat.
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I am sure this could be done. They have much more compex designs on the website. That looks great.
(Personally I would say THE GAME IS NEVER OVER.)
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what about
let the games begin
as a slogan
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BTW, shouldn't it be only one electron in each orbit. Sorry if I'm just being annoying, but dual electrons visually bother me.
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BTW, shouldn't it be only one electron in each orbit. Sorry if I'm just being annoying, but dual electrons visually bother me.
I'm not much of a Physicist, but I think it is possible for an atom to have more than 1 free electron?
Oh- I hadn't noticed that there were two per ring. That may not physically appropriate, but I think it looks OK.
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I am sure this could be done. They have much more compex designs on the website. That looks great.
(Personally I would say THE GAME IS NEVER OVER.)
OK, fixed a problem in the BYOAC logo and changed the text.
(http://arcade.laweb.nl/BYOAC/BYOAC_Depth2.jpg)
I don't think you can have two electrons in one orbit, but I don't see an easy way to remove the extra electron. The electrons seem to be fixed in the trail (or at least some older version of the electron is in the background). Actually I think it looks nicer with two :P
I have also uploaded the CorelDRAW file if anyone wants to butcher Pixels logo any further than I did ;D Download: BYOAC_Token.cdr (http://arcade.laweb.nl/BYOAC/BYOAC_Token.cdr) (CorelDRAW 11)
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"Better Living Through Gaming" goes better with the atom logo. Both have kind of a retro/50's/Atomic Age feel to them. Somebody mentioned it earlier, which made me notice: two electrons in each path is weird.
How would an arcade font "Game Over" with a circle-slash (\), like an American no parking or no smoking sign, work? That would make a whole side. (see below)
I like the atari player one guy better than the men's bathroom guy.
I'd like to see "www.arcadecontrols.com" on it. The w's balance the .com nicely.
Could we use a PacMan or other arcade font for the lettering?
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"Better Living Through Gaming" goes better with the atom logo. Both have kind of a retro/50's/Atomic Age feel to them. Somebody mentioned it earlier, which made me notice: two electrons in each path is weird.
I think we all know I agree with the slogan choice...
but with regards to the one electron... wont it look unbalanced and sort of bare without two? I think I'd have to see a mock-up (sorry, my corel draw is too old to handle that file)
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"Better Living Through Gaming" goes better with the atom logo. Both have kind of a retro/50's/Atomic Age feel to them. Somebody mentioned it earlier, which made me notice: two electrons in each path is weird.
I think we all know I agree with the slogan choice...
but with regards to the one electron... wont it look unbalanced and sort of bare without two? I think I'd have to see a mock-up (sorry, my corel draw is too old to handle that file)
Yes, and because of that I personally like the version I did without electrons... but I feel bad enough appropriating Pixelhugger's design as much as I have so I wanted to stay true to it. In my version, the electrons on the back of the orbit are slightly smaller, so there's already a certain amount of unbalancing.
I'll post a version without electrons with the BYOAC in the middle.
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OK one more then:
(http://arcade.laweb.nl/BYOAC/BYOAC_Token_3_ELECTRONS-wider.jpg)
Looks a bit "empty" to me.
:edit: Changed slogan to a larger font and wider character spacing
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OK one more then:
(http://www.laweb.nl/galaga/BYOAC_Token_3_ELECTRONS.jpg)
Looks a bit "empty" to me.
what about w i d e n i n g the text a little bit?
Or the text could just be a little bigger??
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Without atoms, with "the game is never over", and with the full site name:
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OK one more then:
Looks a bit "empty" to me.
what about w i d e n i n g the text a little bit?
Or the text could just be a little bigger??
Actually I was talking about the atom and electrons being empty (with only 3 electrons), but I fixed the text in the original message now.
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Without atoms, with "the game is never over", and with the full site name:
I like this mostly except the rings are obscured a little too much so that it doesn't look like rings anymore. Could you make them bigger, or rotate the rings a bit?
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OK one more then:
Looks a bit "empty" to me.
what about w i d e n i n g the text a little bit?
Or the text could just be a little bigger??
Actually I was talking about the atom and electrons being empty (with only 3 electrons), but I fixed the text in the original message now.
I like post 128 (http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=13;action=display;threadid=19172;start=msg153382#msg153382)the best so far. Great work Patrick! Maybe it would look better with two electrons on each, but then the "sub-atomic particle people" will get upset! ;D
... but I still like the way byoc is written in post 97 (http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=13;action=display;threadid=19172;start=msg153261#msg153261)... so many decissions!! arghh ::)
(btw, this post is single-handidly killing my work productivity)
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Okay, here we go: bigger rings, smaller electrons with only 1 per orbit:
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I think the double outline and criss crossing electron trails make #97 look too messy.
I do like double electrons per orbit better.
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Chris, I do like your last one...
But could you try it with the "better living through gaming" slogan, the same rings from post 124, and then what about putting something around the "build your own arcade controls" just like it's around BYOC so that the electron lines don't look discontinuous...
I really think it's coming along wery well!!
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Chris, I do like your last one...
But could you try it with the "better living through gaming" slogan, the same rings from post 124, and then what about putting something around the "build your own arcade controls" just like it's around BYOC so that the electron lines don't look discontinuous...
I tried both of these options. The slogan doesn't fit on the top, so we'd have to split it into top and bottom, losing the URL.
When I put a border around the "build your own arcade controls", even more of the rings were obscured and it just looked like a mess. Personally, I prefer the cleaner version with just the Pac-Man in the middle and no BYOAC at all (although I should probably add electrons to that one). That version also gives us more room for text, as the BYOAC bumps out into the text ring.
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Chris, I do like your last one...
But could you try it with the "better living through gaming" slogan, the same rings from post 124, and then what about putting something around the "build your own arcade controls" just like it's around BYOC so that the electron lines don't look discontinuous...
I really think it's coming along wery well!!
So basically you want everything different, but you like the design :P
FWIW, I think it looks too cluttered. Even more so than #97.
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Hey, what about little Pac-Men as electrons? Too corny?
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Hey, what about little Pac-Men as electrons? Too corny?
Tried that; doesn't look good on the orbits.
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Hey, what about little Pac-Men as electrons? Too corny?
I tried that, but to me it looked silly. Guess I should have kept a copy though.
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What if post 87 was on one side and post 134 on the other,
but pacman was normal(alive and eating dots) and instead of saying the website, have the year the games died,1984.
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Hey, what about little Pac-Men as electrons? Too corny?
I tried that, but to me it looked silly. Guess I should have kept a copy though.
Plus there's the problem that with any character, there will be arguments about which character from which game, and pretty soon the whole token is covered with fighter characters... :o
My original thought, if we had the capability of multiple levels, was to have the center be round with a very subtle depression where the mouth was, so you had to look at it a moment to see that it was Pac-Man.
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Chris, I do like your last one...
But could you try it with the "better living through gaming" slogan, the same rings from post 124, and then what about putting something around the "build your own arcade controls" just like it's around BYOC so that the electron lines don't look discontinuous...
I really think it's coming along wery well!!
So basically you want everything different, but you like the design :P
FWIW, I think it looks too cluttered. Even more so than #97.
Well, what I was saying is that I like the "build your own controls" part, but then when you started saying about the clutter... I was thinking...
The tokens that we're showing are 3x as big as the tokens really will be. Maybe we should make them actual size. That might help us better determine what looks cluttered (because 3x smaller and the "build your own arcade controls" would be tiny. Like for an ant.).
(BTW - I don't mean any disrespect to any of our talented designers, just offering my opinions... if you think I'm out of line, call me on it) :-[
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Chris, I do like your last one...
But could you try it with the "better living through gaming" slogan, the same rings from post 124, and then what about putting something around the "build your own arcade controls" just like it's around BYOC so that the electron lines don't look discontinuous...
I really think it's coming along wery well!!
So basically you want everything different, but you like the design :P
FWIW, I think it looks too cluttered. Even more so than #97.
Well, what I was saying is that I like the "build your own controls" part, but then when you started saying about the clutter... I was thinking...
The tokens that we're showing are 3x as big as the tokens really will be. Maybe we should make them actual size. That might help us better determine what looks cluttered (because 3x smaller and the "build your own arcade controls" would be tiny. Like for an ant.).
"Actual size" depens on your screen, of course... I'm on a 19" LCD... :)
At quarter size, "Build your own arcade controls" is SMALLER than "In God We Trust" on an old-style quarter. The slogan is about halfway between the size of "The United States Of America" and "E. Pluribus Unum" on the back of an old-style quarter.
Put a quarter on your monitor on top of this image, and adjust mentally until they're the same size.
edit: Seeing it at quarter size is VERY exciting! I can totally see a bunch of these in my hand!
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I am at work so I can't put in too much time atm...
I think the post 97 design is the best of the atomic BYOAC designs so far. The solid letters look so much better imho. The additions since, the small letters, adjustments to the atomic rings, etc, are just cluttering it up I think. Also, remeber that the coin will be 1 inch or so. Will we be able to even read those small words?
One small detail, the www.arcadecontrols.com logo in your design is all lowercaps. Does it need to be uppercase?
Couple suggestions for slogans:
Atomic BYOAC:
top half - BUILD YOUR OWN
bottom half - ARCADE CONTROLS
Atari side:
top half - NO CASH VALUE or GAME NOT OVER
bottom half - WWW.ARCADECONTROLS.COM
For me, I still like the atomic MAME/Player 1 (bathroom) design slightly better. The atari P1 still gets me thinkin YMCA. But whatever, not a big deal and it still a way cool design. Too bad we couldnt have 4 coin side designs availble and have people order custom coins choosing from 4 sides.
Maybe when I get gome tonight I will play a little with AmericanDemon's Pac-man design (if thats ok with you).
Chris, could you attach the font so I could download it? (is that possible?)
- Calawala
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At quarter size, "Build your own arcade controls" is SMALLER than "In God We Trust" on an old-style quarter. The slogan is about halfway between the size of "The United States Of America" and "E. Pluribus Unum" on the back of an old-style quarter.
Ick, that probably won't work aesthetically, nor with the Mint. Sounds like we are back to 97 or 124. I almost think the border fonts need to be bigger!?
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At quarter size, "Build your own arcade controls" is SMALLER than "In God We Trust" on an old-style quarter. The slogan is about halfway between the size of "The United States Of America" and "E. Pluribus Unum" on the back of an old-style quarter.
Ick, that probably won't work aesthetically, nor with the Mint. Sounds like we are back to 97 or 124. I almost think the border fonts need to be bigger!?
They'd still be larger than the date on Surgeville's token. I think the URL needs to be larger, but the slogan is fine. I think BYOAC without an explanation of what it stands for is meaningless. It might be better to keep BYOAC references off the back side so the die could be reused if another group wants a MAME token.
I again refer back to the pre-BYOAC Pac-Man version from #61; electrons could be added or slogans modified on that version to taste. I can also change the font on that one (Prototype) to the Handel used on all the othes.
For those that don't waht to look back, here's #61:
(http://www.arcadecontrols.com/files/Uploads/BYOAC_Token_Front.gif)
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And here's that version small:
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Just to confuse the issue a little.
(http://craig.phase3solutions.com/silvertoken.gif)
(http://craig.phase3solutions.com/silvertokenpreview.jpg)
Maybe it's just me, but the aluminium is so much more attractive than the brass.
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Chris and everyone else, put together whatever you like. You are doing fabulous work, I don't want to second guess every thing you do. I did issue guidlines earlier to help focus us, but if someone wants to submit a new idea, there is no reason they can't. If the group loves it, that will be evident.
Probably around Monday I will pull together what I think are the top 5-7 most popular as finalists and create (yet another) thread as a poll to pick the winning sides.
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The tokens that we're showing are 3x as big as the tokens really will be. Maybe we should make them actual size.
You mean they don't come that big??? :P
BTW, Chris, there's a small glitch on the first "M" in "MEMORIES" on your post #61 coin (pacman in electron field). It's on the very left.
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BTW, Chris, there's a small glitch on the first "M" in "MEMORIES" on your post #61 coin (pacman in electron field). It's on the very left.
I know. It's not in the original vector file, it's just a glitch on that image.
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I am at work so I can't put in too much time atm...
I think the post 97 design is the best of the atomic BYOAC designs so far. The solid letters look so much better imho. The additions since, the small letters, adjustments to the atomic rings, etc, are just cluttering it up I think. Also, remeber that the coin will be 1 inch or so. Will we be able to even read those small words?
One small detail, the www.arcadecontrols.com logo in your design is all lowercaps. Does it need to be uppercase?
Couple suggestions for slogans:
Atomic BYOAC:
top half - BUILD YOUR OWN
bottom half - ARCADE CONTROLS
Atari side:
top half - NO CASH VALUE or GAME NOT OVER
bottom half - WWW.ARCADECONTROLS.COM
For me, I still like the atomic MAME/Player 1 (bathroom) design slightly better. The atari P1 still gets me thinkin YMCA. But whatever, not a big deal and it still a way cool design. Too bad we couldnt have 4 coin side designs availble and have people order custom coins choosing from 4 sides.
Maybe when I get gome tonight I will play a little with AmericanDemon's Pac-man design (if thats ok with you).
Chris, could you attach the font so I could download it? (is that possible?)
- Calawala
Yeah thats cool. I just threw something together to begin with. Lets see how it looks! :)
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Chris,
I really like your adding the words "Build Your Own Arcade Controls" around the BYOAC logo - solves the "what does that mean?" question completely!
Of course, the Atomic Pac-Man looks good - have you tried orbiting ghosts yet?
Kevin
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PixelHugger, I know that you are busy - If you can take a crack at the atomic logo with BYOAC as the text that would be awesome. (Though if you are too busy I am sure someone will step up to the plate. Just say the word. I know I hate when people give me tasks when I'm not around! ;)
Here is my original atomic design revised for BYOAC. A few times. Obviously the type can be flopped to read upright on the bottom (as in the MAME ver) if preferred.
I'd like to have the option to finalize it since it is sort of my "baby" ;)
I agree with the comment about BEE-O-AK. We crossed this bridge in the T-Shirt thread. And in designing the shirts, a number of non BYOACers who saw the stuff I was working on mispronounced it exactly that way. I vote for spelling it out somewhere on the coin.
I put my vote in for Chris' happy guy player on the other side. While it doesn't say "player one start to me," now I'm not sure that it really even should. I really like the idea of using the Atari style player icon which is immediately recognizable to any "retrogamer" and the fact that it conveys fun and looks dynamic is a better value added than the P1 button anyway. Please stike my YMCA comment from the record! ;)
Here's a blank coin for anyone who wants it.
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:o
This place never fails to humble me.
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At quarter size, "Build your own arcade controls" is SMALLER than "In God We Trust" on an old-style quarter. The slogan is about halfway between the size of "The United States Of America" and "E. Pluribus Unum" on the back of an old-style quarter.
Ick, that probably won't work aesthetically, nor with the Mint. Sounds like we are back to 97 or 124. I almost think the border fonts need to be bigger!?
They'd still be larger than the date on Surgeville's token. I think the URL needs to be larger, but the slogan is fine. I think BYOAC without an explanation of what it stands for is meaningless. It might be better to keep BYOAC references off the back side so the die could be reused if another group wants a MAME token.
I again refer back to the pre-BYOAC Pac-Man version from #61; electrons could be added or slogans modified on that version to taste. I can also change the font on that one (Prototype) to the Handel used on all the othes.
Because it's so small, the date on the token is pretty unreadable if you don't know what it is. On the scan it is fairly blown up, so it makes it more readable. I wanted some type of score on the "game side" of my token and since the tokens are just for my own use I put my birthday for the score just to make it more personal, even if my family and friends have to ask what it reads.
Like I said before, liberate any ideas you want from my design.
(http://www.arcadecontrols.com/files/Uploads/Surge_tokens_scanned.jpg)
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And as another instance of "convergent evolution" or Jungian collective subconcious - all of these were done before todays posts...so it seems the Pac dots idea was floating around idependently in a number of people's heads.... which validates it's appropriateness :P
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Pixelhugger:
Wow...again I say, WOW.
Okay, now for the feedback ;)
1. I love having the player 1 logo in the "O" of BYOAC. Very cool.
2. I like Chris' spelling out of the BYOAC logo right next to the "word"
- I'm not so sure it's as effective as edge text.
3. I really think the bottom edge text should be readable
without "spinning" the coin around.
4. For the Pac/dots coins, how about replacing one of the Pacs with
a ghost?
This just gets better and better...good work, Chris and PixelHugger!
Kevin
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After seeing Pixelhuggers latest, I'll probably want one of those, but here's my last shot at a simplified front:
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Lots of great designs here.
Can these boards do polls? If yes, then maybe you could put up the top designs and let all of us vote for the top2.
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I'd like to have the option to finalize it since it is sort of my "baby" ;)
I agree! I'm happy to have helped add ideas to the pot, but I now back out of the running for the front of the token.
That said, here are my comments:
- I think the URL should be flopped. I didn't originally, but I've been convinced.
- I like the P1 button for the O; it complements the Atari P1 on the back. I like the larger size of the one in the top right, but the "solid button/hollow guy" look of the middle right.
- I think the fonts need to be larger. Look at my last front version, with BYOAC brought within the inner circle, the outer circle moved closer to the rim, and the larger, all-caps text, and see if you like it.
- I like the big background pac in the bottom right! I've noticed some of the tokens on their site have a pebbled texture; could we pebble the areas outside of Pac-Man so Pac-Man would be shiny? On a gold-tone token that would look incredible!
- I can't decide if I like the pac-man/dots background or the atomic background better, so I'd be happy with either. The Pac-Man/dots background is cleaner, though.
- There is a certain minimalist flair to the one in the bottom right, but it might be too Zen for the crowd that came into gaming in the 90's. :)
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If you look up a few posts I am going to do just that on Monday. I want to make sure we have time to get all of the good ideas out there.
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Oops, I must have missed it while looking at the pretty designs.
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Man all these designs look AWESOME, but I agree with Pixel this is his "baby" and I know I won't be disappointed with his final draft. Chrise great work man! And I still like the stick man with arcades r cool, I laughed my --I'm attempting to get by the auto-censor and should be beaten after I re-read the rules-- off at that, best design ever, "in the comic shop dudes vioice."
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I've noticed some of the tokens on their site have a pebbled texture; could we pebble the areas outside of Pac-Man so Pac-Man would be shiny? On a gold-tone token that would look incredible!
Couldn't agree more, for whichever design is used. I was originally going to put a sandstone texture the background of these, but decided against it since I wasn't sure if it could be done on the actual token (without special fees etc..) but if doable I think it should definitely be done!
- I can't decide if I like the pac-man/dots background or the atomic background better, so I'd be happy with either. The Pac-Man/dots background is cleaner, though.
Yeah, I might prefer it as well. Initially I thought a character would be too game specific, but the PacMan icon is hands down the most recognizable game related image and maybe a bit more relavant than the atomic symbol.
I really like the idea of adding a ghost below... although there is something that sort of implies an endless game with the way the pacmans loop back on each other. Like those Escher drawings of a continual staircase looping back on itself. ::)
Santoro- any idea of how small the type can be? And for the type around the edge, can they use a font we provide or do we have to stick to one of theirs?
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keep the atomic background, looks way better.
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Santoro- any idea of how small the type can be? And for the type around the edge, can they use a font we provide or do we have to stick to one of theirs?
If you convert the text to curves, doesn't it just become part of the design?
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Santoro- any idea of how small the type can be? And for the type around the edge, can they use a font we provide or do we have to stick to one of theirs?
I just called them.
-The 'Rough background'' is called "stippled," and they can do it.
-We can use our own fonts.
-She couldn't say how big the fonts can be. She only said "the bigger the better." I think we need to use the examples on the website as a guide.
Dave
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Santoro- any idea of how small the type can be? And for the type around the edge, can they use a font we provide or do we have to stick to one of theirs?
If you convert the text to curves, doesn't it just become part of the design?
Not sure if that would make imaging the super small type details harder for them. Tho' I guess if they are working from vector files as opposed to raster, it shouldn't make a difference ???
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I really really like the top right design of Pixels new designs. The bottom right is a close second. :)
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Not sure if that would make imaging the super small type details harder for them. Tho' I guess if they are working from vector files as opposed to raster, it shouldn't make a difference ???
They are asking for camera-ready art, so I think this is a raster thing.
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I really really like the top right design of Pixels new designs. The bottom right is a close second. :)
I agree with this vote. I also think that Chris's design for the back is fantastic. I will be ordering these.
-S
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Okay, my vote, if we had to take them as-is, is also top right. However, I'd prefer to see the "O" button reversed, the URL at the bottom instead of the top, and the bottom text flipped.
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Middle Right... I would put the website at the bottom and the "better living through gaming" at the top though
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Bling
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Pixelhugger:
Love it!
Perfect! (well, except for flipping the bottom text over! ;) )
Kevin
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I guess now we gotta decide which color of token we want. Nice Bling art. I love it!
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I guess now we gotta decide which color of token we want. Nice Bling art. I love it!
FWIW all of the pricing I have spoken about to date was for brass tokens. Nickel Plating costs more.
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I'm officially in love with this design. I'll buy no matter what the group decides, but I really like the way this design is going.
Bling
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It's a bit hard to recognize the O as an O in this version.
Am I the only one who feels there is potential in doing a bit of 3D instead of only pure line art?
Love the rendering, nice and shiny coins, he he
:edit: I also vote for moving the url down and the "slogan" up and for flipping the bottom text.
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This one is going to be a finalist. I second that the bottom text should be flipped.
Bling
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Bling
Pixelhugger, what if you reversed at least the "bezel" of the button? (I still think the whole button should be reversed...) That would make it clearer that it's an O....
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Double bling.
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I vote this be put on a gold chain so hairy chested overweight Greek men in speedos across the Mediterranean can sport it from the bow of their yachts.
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Double bling.
If that's the design we;re going with, I'm so in for 200. Perfection.. I'd leave it at that.. If you mess with a good thing too much it gets ruined, I can't think of any better improvement.
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I love it!
Now lets get something for the OTHER side. :)
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Al Sharpton could use it too! - Or Eminem?
The parent company of tokensdirect makes medalions. You could be rich!
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Double bling.
That's it! Stop right there. The only quibble I could have is I think the URL should be at the bottom, but I'll take it either way.
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Stop right there.
What he said!
If we like Happyguy for the other side, maybe we can Stipple the space between him and the cab?
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I love it!
Now lets get something for the OTHER side. :)
Pixelhugger, I can't do the "bling"... can you "bling" my back so we can see themn side by side? I've atttached my file, as both a CorelDRAW 10 and an Adobe Illustrator 7 file... change the extension to .zip (can't attach a zip) after you download.
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maybe we can Stipple the space between him and the cab?
Yes! Stipplerific! ;D
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Stop right there.
What he said!
If we like Happyguy for the other side, maybe we can Stipple the space between him and the cab?
Might be better to leave it unstippled so there's more contrast with the front...
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I like the stipple. double bling me.
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Love that design... not another stroke... "now it belongs to the ages".
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what about raising the guy in the middle, and stippling the part around him (but inside the O)??
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what about raising the guy in the middle, and stippling the part around him (but inside the O)??
Hmmm.. I don't think it would look like a button anymore then....
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what about raising the guy in the middle, and stippling the part around him (but inside the O)??
That would ruin the illusion of a start button....
Check this out!
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Reverse lay up bling.
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DOUBLE BLING!
Man, when it's right, it's right...gave me goosebumps, it did, both of them.
I think we need a different phrase than "good for extended play," though.
Kevin
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Reverse lay up blingity bling.
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Double bling.
I just have one question for you to consider. The bottom of your token design is darker than the top. I don't know if that is possible without coloring, which raises the cost. At least when I bought mine from Hoffman. The darkness when they look at the design has to do with how deep a cut it is. So, how your design is now, the bottom half would have Pacman and pellets go in and the top half would have Pacman and pellets stick out.
If the darkness of the bottom is just supposed to be how the light is reflecting forget I mentioned this.
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Double bling.
I just have one question for you to consider. The bottom of your token design is darker than the top.
That's just part of the "bling" effect.
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If the darkness of the bottom is just supposed to be how the light is reflecting forget I mentioned this.
Yep. But you raise a good point in that these images are probably FAR more reflective than the actual tokens would be... which I imagine would have more of a matte finish?
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Double bling.
I just have one question for you to consider. The bottom of your token design is darker than the top.
That's just part of the "bling" effect.
Sounds good then. Just one more thing...How would it look with the bottom or the top Pacman being substituted with Ms Pacman?
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If the darkness of the bottom is just supposed to be how the light is reflecting forget I mentioned this.
Yep. But you raise a good point in that these images are probably FAR more reflective than the actual tokens would be... which I imagine would have more of a matte finish?
Yes, but I am pretty sure they will be real brass, and thus polishable. In case you wanted to display them or something. I am going to ask abou that to be sure.
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Certainly doable if there's interest. I'm a little nervous about making it to PacMan oriented, tho. Otherwise either Ms. PacMan or a Ghost would look very cool.
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I think I like the back without the stipple... contrasts with the front nicely.
Here's the side-by-side. Thanks for the bling, Pixelhugger!
(http://www.arcadecontrols.com/files/Uploads/PHOTOREAL-TOKENS2.jpg)(http://www.arcadecontrols.com/files/Uploads/PHOTOREAL-CHRIS2.jpg)
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Certainly doable if there's interest. I'm a little nervous about making it to PacMan oriented, tho. Otherwise either Ms. PacMan or a Ghost would look very cool.
I like it the way it is. Pac-Man is relatively abstract; MS. Pac-Man or a ghost is very specific.
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Certainly doable if there's interest. I'm a little nervous about making it to PacMan oriented, tho. Otherwise either Ms. PacMan or a Ghost would look very cool.
The more I've seen of the "double Pac-Man" design, the more "infinity" it seems, and the more appropriate. Definitely in the spirit of "The Game is Never Over"
Speaking of which, I think "The Game is Never Over" phrase (or Better Living Through Gaming) would be good side text on the Player 1 side of the coin. Or both? :o
Kevin
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Sounds good then. Just one more thing...How would it look with the bottom or the top Pacman being substituted with Ms Pacman?
I think Pac Man is more recognizable to the general population than Ms. is.
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Speaking of which, I think "The Game is Never Over" phrase (or Better Living Through Gaming) would be good side text on the Player 1 side of the coin. Or both? :o
I think that the "No cash value" and "Good for..." phrases make it much more realistic and tokeny.
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Tokens Direct just emailed back, already. Survey says: Real Brass!
I am very happy with the customer service so far.
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Tokens Direct just emailed back, already. Survey says: Real Brass!
I am very happy with the customer service so far.
Polish and frame those puppies!
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Before the design decision solidifies any further, should we send a jpeg of the designs for them to approve as reproducible at our price point? Just a thought. I'm a bit nervous about the size of the "build your own arcade controls" type, but making it larger really impacts the size and placement of the BYOAC.
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Speaking of which, I think "The Game is Never Over" phrase (or Better Living Through Gaming) would be good side text on the Player 1 side of the coin. Or both? :o
I think that the "No cash value" and "Good for..." phrases make it much more realistic and tokeny.
I just don't see the need for them on home-use tokens, but I'm not that adverse to them, just the "extended play" phrase, which isn't realistic or tokeny. :P
Good for One Game, perhaps?
Kevin
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PH, I was thinking that as well, but was waiting for the right time. Now is probably it.
I'll send them out right now. This will probably be sent to the engraver to look at as opposed to the saleswoman I have been dealing with so I am not expecting a ten minute turnaround on this one.
Stay Tuned
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PH, I was thinking that as well, but was waiting for the right time. Now is probably it.
I'll send them out right now. This will probably be sent to the engraver to look at as opposed to the saleswoman I have been dealing with so I am not expecting a ten minute turnaround on this one.
Stay Tuned
Maybe I should post them as line art so they don't get confused by the embossing of the bling effect. Bit more accurate for their purposes and probably how they are used to proofing things?
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:o
Wow... you've been busy!!! The BYOAC pac-man design is my new favorite, along with the atari player1 for the second side.
A suggestion, since the font my be a little small...
In post 156, middle right, the BYOAC is a bit smaller (which I like since it doesn't crowd the coin as much), and the font is bigger and more evenly spaced out. How about using that layout, but replace the atomic with the pac-man zen?
- Calawala
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Pixel, It can't hurt. They want 300 DPI.
Thanks
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Actually, thinking about it, perhaps the text on the player 1 side of the token could be put up for a vote as well?
A number of "quotes" could be polled, and one picked for the side text slogan on the player 1 side?
Both designs, as far as I'm concerned, are perfect as is. About the only thing I see to vote on is "stippling or no stippling" ;D
Kevin
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I kinda like the stipple effect on the atari side. Either way though, this coin is gonna be mint.
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Just tossing in some more ideas:
- shrink the BYOAC so it fits inside the inner circle and then there is enough room for the slogan
- make the start button half depth to make the O look more "o-ish". This will also make the player 1 guy less deep so it won't lose form due to the inverted image
- maybe also the pacman and dots at half depth (I guess gray in the line art instead of black)
- put the slogan on the top and the url on the bottom (dunno why but it really looks weird to me this way around)
- I think a shiny background will look better on the actual coin then the stippled effect (even though in the image it might be different)
- the lines on the front and back don't seem of the same thickness
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Yeah those are awesome. I may have to order 2 sets!
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I love the current design. I do like the idea of swapping the bottom Pac for a Ghost Monster.
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Those designs == 8)
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I really love the current designs. This next design is more of a "what would it look like" as I liked AmericanDemon's design he made at the start.
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For a text size comparison, here's our tokens against real tokens:
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I can't say enough about how much I really like the designs set forth. I didn't like them initially, but with all of the tweaks and the mockups.... they rock. Mine was too bland. :)
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I for one think the text on both sides of the coin look perfect. Although it would be a good idea to see if the minting company can do text that size.
Also, I'd like to bring up the color choice again because it seems as though people are designing in brass and no one has realy expressed their opinion on the color choices.
I for one prefer the nickel (that's what it is right, the silvery lookin one...) and I think this should be put to a vote also. It was mentioned that it would probably cost more though, so that the price should be investigated and included in the voting process.
I must applaud those who have inputted their ideas, esp. pixelhugger and chris. If you don't work in the visual arts industry now, you deffinitely should!
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I don't necessarily want to go with what I am posting below, not even sure why I'm posting it. Just doing it in the spirit of comparison I guess.
#209 is the best
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I for one think the text on both sides of the coin look perfect. Although it would be a good idea to see if the minting company can do text that size.
Also, I'd like to bring up the color choice again because it seems as though people are designing in brass and no one has realy expressed their opinion on the color choices.
I for one prefer the nickel (that's what it is right, the silvery lookin one...) and I think this should be put to a vote also. It was mentioned that it would probably cost more though, so that the price should be investigated and included in the voting process.
I must applaud those who have inputted their ideas, esp. pixelhugger and chris. If you don't work in the visual arts industry now, you deffinitely should!
I agree as well. We should vote on it. Hey Pixel can you or Chris post those back up in the Silver/Nickel finish?
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I agree as well. We should vote on it.
There's going to be a voting poll coming up. A lot of really great designs are in right now. Likely Sunday will be the cut-off date. Santoro can tell you more about this plan than I.
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Personally, I think post #97 is a good choice, but again, without the "building your memories" slogan. I don't know what else we'd use, but for some reason it just doesn't feel right to me.
#161 isn't bad either, but I think the URL would be better in lowercase. Having everything in caps makes it all look too similar I guess. I mean with lower case it sets the URL apart without straying too far.
Some of the other designs are nice, but if we get too complicated, it'll ruin the token. Such as using a P1 button as the "O" in BYOAC. It might be a bit much with all the rest going on.
The text on #177 is nice, maybe we can use that on another design. The only reason I say this is because some people didn't want MAME on there since we don't all use it and it was kinda specific. Instead, a Pac Man isn't considered as specific? The designs are all cool, but I'd rather tie the token to something a bit more open like MAME instead of a character.
I'll wait to see more of the designs later since you guys are constantly revising them. We will need a back to back view of all popular designs too, so we can compare them and trade pieces to create one awesome coin.
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I'd be interested in the cost of nickel plating as well. Although I guess more would accidentally find their way into cash registers (a la canadian pennies) than with the brass. :P
Below is nickel plated without stipple.
(remember these are simulations, actual tokens may not be this shiny!)
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Nickle stipple.
(Am I the only one who wants to laugh writing that word? Guess I need to grow up.)
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I like it best with the stipple in Nickel plate finish.
Yup, definitely chuckle everytime I write stipple. There we go again. ;D
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Oooo ... look at those stipples!! ::)
Seriously though, I like the stipples better (at least in simulation). Helps define the artwork imo.
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I am going to post two polls - one to decide Brass vs Silver (Nickel) and another to decide if we need to go further since many think what we have is superb already.
I guess I will put them in the Artwork Forum.
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Do you know the cost of upgrading to nickel? Also, I'm not sure how you plan to do the voting, but try to make it so we can pick from a group of fronts and group of backs. Instead of having a front/back pair, if you know what I mean.
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Not meaning to complicate things, but if we do poll on designs, we should keep the actual tag lines (slogans) as a separate poll. I think some people favor one design over another solely because of the slogans, which could be applied to any design. It'll get convoluted if people try vote for a design with disclaimers on text content.
$.02
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Not meaning to complicate things, but if we do poll on designs, we should keep the actual tag lines (slogans) as a separate poll. I think some people favor one design over another solely because of the slogans, which could be applied to any design. It'll get convoluted if people try vote for a design with disclaimers on text content.
$.02
I agree completely - the designs are fantastic, and some of the final bickering will be over the text on the sides, which isn't really related to the actual artwork.
Kevin
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I don't dare start a sixth thread about these tokens for slogans now, the moderators will probably kill me. Why don't we do that next after we finish voting on the color?
Whatd'ya think?
On a non-related note, I prefer the stippling on both sides.
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I don't dare start a sixth thread about these tokens for slogans now, the moderators will probably kill me. Why don't we do that next after we finish voting on the color?
Whatd'ya think?
On a non-related note, I prefer the stippling on both sides.
I agree - I like the stippling.
Hey, the only gripe I really have is the "good for extended play" line, which I just don't quite "get."
All of this is relatively minor, but perhaps once the designs are finalized we can have a separate poll for the slogan.
One poll at a time...
Kevin
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The stippling rocks!!
how do you make those pictures?
what if u used the phrases like
Better living through gaming
bringing the classics back to life
building your memories
or eat dots now!
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Not sure if that would make imaging the super small type details harder for them. Tho' I guess if they are working from vector files as opposed to raster, it shouldn't make a difference ???
They are asking for camera-ready art, so I think this is a raster thing.
I notice their parent company suggests Adobe Illustrator files for their higher-end stuff... have you offered them an AI file?
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The stippling rocks!!
how do you make those pictures?
what if u used the phrases like
Better living through gaming
bringing the classics back to life
building your memories
or eat dots now!
Most of these will not fit in the available space.
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No, but I can... I will send a note to see if it helps them.
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Oh, man that'd be the way to go from a quality standpoint. Much cleaner from a vector file I'd imagine. Santoro - I'll email you one in a few hours
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Oh, man that'd be the way to go from a quality standpoint. Much cleaner from a vector file I'd imagine. Santoro - I'll email you one in a few hours
Are you going to send him both sides, or do I need to send one?
The text in the one I sent you has been converted to curves, just in case they don't have the exact same font.
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Thanks guys.
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Yeah, the "Good for extended play" is a little odd. I think there's some merit to attributing a value to it, like a coin, which is why I added the "One Credit" bit to my (admittedly not too exciting) submission. That clearly makes it currency for games.
Also, any reason why people are ignoring the option to go aluminum tokens as opposed to nickel plated brass? The option is there... the only thing I can think of is they weigh less, which would lower shipping, but perhaps give them a less chunky coin feel... it would cost less to produce too. Just a thought.
http://www.tokensdirect.com/Page3.html
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Hey, the only gripe I really have is the "good for extended play" line, which I just don't quite "get."
Kev! You're older than I am! Didn't you live to get extended play?
"Extended Play" is the same concept as "Game not over".
If we must put a "slogan" there instead of something token-appropriate, how about something at least related to tokens/coins?
"COIN UP AND PLAY"
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Also, any reason why people are ignoring the option to go aluminum tokens as opposed to nickel plated brass? The option is there... the only thing I can think of is they weigh less, which would lower shipping, but perhaps give them a less chunky coin feel... it would cost less to produce too. Just a thought.
Aluminum feels cheap and is easily scratched and damaged. I personally would not buy the tokens if they were aluminum.
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That's all I needed to know. Cheers Chris :)
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Also, any reason why people are ignoring the option to go aluminum tokens as opposed to nickel plated brass? The option is there... the only thing I can think of is they weigh less, which would lower shipping, but perhaps give them a less chunky coin feel... it would cost less to produce too. Just a thought.
Aluminum feels cheap and is easily scratched and damaged. I personally would not buy the tokens if they were aluminum.
They also get pitted and dull. I wouldn't buy them either.
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That's all I needed to know. Cheers Chris :)
I'm not sure the mech will take them, either. My understanding is that aluminum tokens are used for hand-to-hand exchange where one might ordinarily use a plastic token or ticket, or used as promotional items.
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(remember these are simulations, actual tokens may not be this shiny!)
For reference, here's a look at brand new tokens from another thread (although the lighting isn't great):
(EDIT: Removed picture as it was making thread hard to read.)
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Just out of curiousity, how would the "back" (tails?) look with the Y Guy and cabinet stippled, and the background smoov?
I would like to have a separate slogan poll, as I too am not fond of the extended play thing. I could live with it, but I'd prefer something else.
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Dude, I go to work, and there are THREE more pages of posts when I get home! Wow! These designs just keep getting better and better. I really want some tokens now! I really like the stipling on both sides. It really adds definition in my book. I really don't care what the sayings are around the outside. I don't think it will take too long to figure out which phrases to go with. I voted for brass, since every arcade I've gone to has brass tokens.
BTW, Santaro, What ARE the thickness and size going to be? I'm sure it's somewhere here, but I don't wanna look through seven pages (at the moment) of posts.
Chris, Pixelhugger, I think you two are the major players in this whole token discussion. I think there'd have been less interest if it weren't for your designs and mock-ups!
Two snaps, and a bling bling ka-ching!
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I like Chris' "happy player 1", although I think he might need some feet.
That's the Atari Player 1 icon as seen on Centipede and Missile Command. He never had feet.
Is the cabinet profile used with the Happy Player 1 a Centipede cabinet or a Missle Command cabinet? Might be appropriate if it was. I really like the phrase "The Game is Never Over", I am not too fond of the "Good for Extended Play" phrase.
These designs are too cool!
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I agree the current designs look good, but I still feel on some details it still needs some polishing. I assume this is a mock-up that PH threw together to test things out, but for a final run maybe some minor details could be looked at:
- The lines on the front and back face are not of the same width
- The sunken player 1 guy in the looks mangled (personally I'd just rather have a standard O, but that's just me I guess)
- The Pac Man dots don't look consistently layed out:
- In the bottom part the fourth dot (on the left) runs into the logo
- left and right the dots dont look to be on the same height
- the space between the dots doesn't look evenly arranged
The Pac Man dots might be a problem to fix. Four dots just looks like it's too much.
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BTW, Santaro, What ARE the thickness and size going to be? I'm sure it's somewhere here, but I don't wanna look through seven pages (at the moment) of posts.
I don't remeber applying for the secretary position!? ;D
Seriously though, check here. (http://www.tokensdirect.com/pricing.html)
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Hey, the only gripe I really have is the "good for extended play" line, which I just don't quite "get."
Kev! You're older than I am! Didn't you live to get extended play?
"Extended Play" is the same concept as "Game not over".
If we must put a "slogan" there instead of something token-appropriate, how about something at least related to tokens/coins?
"COIN UP AND PLAY"
Oh, I get the reference - it just doesn't quite work for me.
You earn extended play. You don't get it from a token. :)
Going with the "Coin up and play" theme:
"Now Go Play Something"
"The Adventure Begins"
"Play Hard"
"Let the Game Begin"
I'm definitely thinking a slogan poll after the artwork poll would be a
good idea...
Kevin
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I like Chris' "happy player 1", although I think he might need some feet.
That's the Atari Player 1 icon as seen on Centipede and Missile Command. He never had feet.
Is the cabinet profile used with the Happy Player 1 a Centipede cabinet or a Missle Command cabinet? Might be appropriate if it was.
It is very very loosely based on a Centipede profile, with the obvious exception of the joystick.
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How about:
GAME OVER.. NOT!
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How about:
GAME OVER.. NOT!
That is SO 1990's...
;)
Kevin
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Are you guys set on the Pac-Man background? I still kinda liked the atomic better since it wasn't so specific. I mean there were several people who didn't want MAME on it, so I was just curious. I hope both will show up on the final designs vote.
Or in order to have a small MAME reference, is there a way to put it in small text on the cab? I was going to create a design myself but figured what we already had was pretty close to what we want. And all I'd be doing is cutting and pasting everyone else's designs... Besides that and the slogans (which I guess there's gonna be another poll on), I think this is pretty close to finished.
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Or in order to have a small MAME reference, is there a way to put it in small text on the cab? I was going to create a design myself but figured what we already had was pretty close to what we want. And all I'd be doing is cutting and pasting everyone else's designs... Besides that and the slogans (which I guess there's gonna be another poll on), I think this is pretty close to finished.
I had started a version with MAME sideart on the cab, but decided it looked much better as a silhouette. Having detail on the cab and not on the Player 1 icon looked strange.
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Ok ok. How about this for a slogan?
What are you token?
::lol:: I know shot down, but its got a humor to it.
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SLOGANS
Okay, I think I'm getting a small hint here that not everyone appreciates the esthetics of "GOOD FOR EXTENDED PLAY". Since Santoro is busy gathering opinions on other aspects of the token, I'm going to step in and suggest a path.
I've gathered up all the slogans I could find across these threads; there are 28 of them.
Before I go any further, I am going to use this assumption: the designs that have been recently "blinged" are the final designs, with the exception of color, stippling, and the text on the bottom of the back of the coin. Thus, the text on the bottom of the back is the only element that is still wide open.
I know that this is not yet true, however making this assumption makes this task easier, as it limits us to debating one single line of text that will fit into the available space.
My proposal is that first I plug all of the slogans into my mockup to see which fit. Any that don't fit are eliminated.
On the remaining choices, we vote. Each person votes for three choices. Tomorrow afternoon, we count up the votes, and eliminate the bottom half and start over. At some point we should get to a reasonable number for a final vote, so a final slogan is picked by Monday so we can get underway.
(EDIT: Added latecoming slogans)
(EDIT: Missed one)
The 32 (seriously presented) slogans I found, in alphabetical order, are:
1 TOKEN (INFINITY SYMBOL) PLAYS
1 TOKEN 1 PLAY
1984
ARCADE GAMES FOREVER
BETTER LIVING THROUGH GAMING
BUILDING YOUR MEMORIES
COIN UP AND PLAY
CONTINUE GAME
FREE GAME
FREE GAME TOKEN
FUN IS FOREVER
GAME NOT OVER
GAME ON
GAME OVER.. NOT
GIVE ME CREDITS OR GIVE ME DEATH
GOOD FOR 1 CREDIT
GOOD FOR 1 GAME
GOOD FOR EXTENDED PLAY
KEEPING MEMORIES ALIVE
LET THE GAMES BEGIN
NOW GO PLAY SOMETHING
ONE COIN AT A TIME
ONE CREDIT
PLAY HARD
PLAY ONE CLASSIC
RESURRECTING THE PAST
STEP UP TO REAL GAMING EXCITEMENT
THE ADVENTURE BEGINS
THE GAME IS NEVER OVER
THE GAME IS NOT OVER
THE GAMES LIVE ON
WHERE THE GAME NEVER ENDS
I am now starting to determine which will fit and wich won't. I'll post my results soon.
Does anyone disagree with this method?
--Chris
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SLOGANS
My proposal is that first I plug all of the slogans into my mockup to see which fit. Any that don't fit are eliminated.
Of those posted, the following do not fit:
GIVE ME CREDITS OR GIVE ME DEATH
STEP UP TO REAL GAMING EXCITEMENT
The following two will fit if one star is eliminated from each side:
WHERE THE GAME NEVER ENDS
BETTER LIVING THROUGH GAMING
All others will fit as-is or with additional stars or other filler added.
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Thanks Chris, I think this is fine. Better than creating yet another thread, I think.
Scanning the list, I am amazed at how few of these jump out at me.
Here is my top 3:
GOOD FOR ONE CREDIT
THE GAME IS NOT OVER
BETTER LIVING THROUGH GAMING
GAME NOT OVER
Dave
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My 3 are:
GOOD FOR EXTENDED PLAY
WHERE THE GAME NEVER ENDS
GOOD FOR ONE CREDIT
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Top Text:
ONE CREDIT
GOOD FOR ONE GAME
GAME TOKEN
Bottom Text:
THE GAME IS NEVER OVER (But of course ::))
ONE COIN TO PLAY THEM ALL
KEEPING THE GAMES ALIVE
(vote subject to change on a whim...)
Kevin
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My top three are:
Better Living Through Gaming
The Games Live On
Coin Up and Play
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Not a single match yet... it's gonna be a long weekend... ;D
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Not a single match yet... it's gonna be a long weekend... ;D
I hate to sound like an advocate, but I think Santoro's "The Game is Not Over" is actually supposed to be "The Game is Never Over"
(The Game is Not Over isn't on the list of choices)
Give it time, I'm sure there will be three "top choices" we could do a final poll on.
Kevin
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Oops, I didn't mean to create a new one, but I do like it better. I'm nominating it to the list.
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GAME FREE OR DIE
ALL YOUR GAME ARE BELONG TO US
LET'S GAME
GAME ON!
JUST ONE MORE GAME
1 COIN 1 CREDIT 1 CAN O' WHUP --I'm attempting to get by the auto-censor and should be beaten after I re-read the rules--
1 COIN TO RULE THEM ALL
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1 COIN TO RULE THEM ALL
That's the first one that made me smile 8)
:edit: Still needed to put up my vote:
ONE COIN TO PLAY THEM ALL
THE GAME IS NEVER OVER
PLAY ONE CLASSIC
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I like "Good For One Credit" because, well...it is.
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Good for one free load :)
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Lets poll it with the choices and give it through monday. ;)
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Well, we need to winnow down the list. I think we have more than enough choices, so unless Santoro disagrees (it's his show) please vote for three of the ones on the list (including his addition, since it's his show).
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Lets poll it with the choices and give it through monday. ;)
Polls only accept eight items, which is why I suggested doing it this way. By Sunday night we should have few enough to have a poll.
Santoro, this is your show. Do you like this process enough to make it the official last say on the matter?
--Chris
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I think this process will make clear which slogans are not popular, then we can do a poll on what's left. Let's give it a shot.
I am really, really, hesitant to open a sixth active thread on the topic of these tokens.
I will lock the polling about whether to wait until Monday (because we will). Maybe one of the mods could lock the topic it so it scrolls away.
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THE GAME IS NEVER OVER
GAME NOT OVER
1 COIN TO RULE THEM ALL
That last one gave me a grin too. When was that nominated, this is the first reference I've seen to it.
Also as long as I'm here I'll say that I like stippling on both sides and nickle better than brass.
Whatever is decided I'll be buying at least 200 of these. 400 if I really like them.
On a related note, has anyone come up with a cheap source for mechs in this size?
-S
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1 Coin to Rule them all <- Love that.
Top 3 of those listed:
Better Living through Gaming
Good for Extended Play
My Edit: The Game Never Ends
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Better living through gaming sounds like some kind of ad for a medication....not a big fan.
My top options:
Game Not Over
Just One More Game...
What about something like:
"Aedilis Agito" Latin for "the games live on"
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"Aedilis Agito" Latin for "the games live on"
Clever - I like it. You wouldnt pull a fast on on us non latin speakers would ya? I hope this doesn't really mean "bearer is son of a serving wench" or something. ;D
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No...the literal translation is "Games Live" since there are no latin words for "The" and "On". Either way I thought would be something different.
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How about "VENI VIDI VICI" for a latin gladiator line :P
BTW does "Aedilis Agito" really mean "Games Live"? I don;t have my latin vocabulaire handy, but Agito seems like "agitate" to me.
:edit: OK looked it up and "Aedilis" means "building". "Aedilis Agito" means whorehouse or something?
:edit2: or "Aedilis" means "commissioner"
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I have it as "The magistrate of games thanks".
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GOOD FOR 1 CREDIT
GOOD FOR EXTENDED PLAY
THE GAME IS NOT OVER
1 COIN TO RULE THEM ALL
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What's the Latin for Huge, Heavy, Expensive Game?
:D
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1 COIN TO RULE THEM ALL
Please tell me you're all joking with this. I'd hate to see this get on the token just because people think it's funny.
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Ludo Ergo Sum
"I game therefore I am."
or maybe more literally I play therefore I am?
Pretty sure that's the right conjugation and use of LUDERE. BTW isn't game LUDO or something similar? Can't remember much Latin from High School... but then, I spent most of the time screwing around. On our HS Latin trip to southern CA we made a shirt that read "We Came. We Saw. We Left..." since we only went to hook up with co-eds and go to the beach. Little wonder I can't put two words of it together now. ::)
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Ludo Ergo Sum
"I game therefore I am."
or maybe more literally I play therefore I am?
Just as with the original BYOAC issue, this would put us in the position of having to explain it to everyone who saw them.
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1 COIN TO RULE THEM ALL
Please tell me you're all joking with this. I'd hate to see this get on the token just because people think it's funny.
I plain out don't get it. :-[
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Just as with the original BYOAC issue, this would put us in the position of having to explain it to everyone who saw them.
Yeah, I wouldn't actually vote for that one myself. ::) Never been a fan of Y Pluribus Unum either...for the same reason. ;)
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I think we should stay away from latin for the same reason we wanted BYOAC spelled out: not everyone knows what it means.
In no particular order of prefference...
GAME NOT OVER - simple, short, doesnt get to fancy, everyone know's what GAME OVER is from
GOOD FOR ONE CREDIT - as someone said, it states the functional truth.
Didnt really have a third choice. "The Game Never Ends" I guess. (edit: should read: "The Game is Never Over")(edit2: my third choice is posted below)
One Coin To Rule Them All is cool, but do we want a Lord of The Rings reference on this coin?
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1 COIN TO RULE THEM ALL
Please tell me you're all joking with this. I'd hate to see this get on the token just because people think it's funny.
I plain out don't get it. :-[
Ehm ... you build one machine to play them all?
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Just a status update. The font size seems to be OK, but the stippled background might raise the die cost by $40 per side. The salesguy is running it by the engravers. I hope to hear soon.
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1 COIN TO RULE THEM ALL
Please tell me you're all joking with this. I'd hate to see this get on the token just because people think it's funny.
I plain out don't get it. :-[
Ehm ... you build one machine to play them all?
That goes back to MAME, and it was decided early on that this is not a MAME token.
What were're trying to accomplish here is to narrow the choices down, not add a bunch...
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shoulda been specific. I asked someone and he told me the rough translation of "Gamers Live" I'll ask about Games Live and be a little more specific this time ;D
*EDIT*
Okay...I won't since it's already been shot down. :'(
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1 COIN TO RULE THEM ALL
Please tell me you're all joking with this. I'd hate to see this get on the token just because people think it's funny.
I plain out don't get it. :-[
Ehm ... you build one machine to play them all?
That goes back to MAME, and it was decided early on that this is not a MAME token.
What were're trying to accomplish here is to narrow the choices down, not add a bunch...
It goes back to building a cab or at least the controls (=BYOAC). What emulator is used is besides the point. But maybe it should read "1 COIN TO PLAY THEM ALL".
BTW wasn't Good for extended play a derivative of mame's "Game Not Over"? Good that that line gets axed too then ::)
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It goes back to building a cab or at least the controls (=BYOAC). What emulator is used is besides the point. But maybe it should read "1 COIN TO PLAY THEM ALL".
I thought the same thing: 1 COIN TO PLAY THEM ALL sounds more appropriate.
That said, any LOTR reference is going to look awfully dated in a few years...
Kevin
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ONE COIN TO PLAY THEM ALL is much better I think. Didn't like the word RULE because I didn't think it applied and it made the phrase to much like a rip-off of the Lord of the Rings.
I actually kinda like that... That's my third choice. If it fits.
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It goes back to building a cab or at least the controls (=BYOAC). What emulator is used is besides the point. But maybe it should read "1 COIN TO PLAY THEM ALL".
I thought the same thing: 1 COIN TO PLAY THEM ALL sounds more appropriate.
That said, any LOTR reference is going to look awfully dated in a few years...
The book is from 1954, but yes I guess it will have be some more generic line in the end.
It is funny to see how people try to find arguments against lines they don't like ;) I will stop teasing now though ... (or "Agito" in latin)
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That said, any LOTR reference is going to look awfully dated in a few years...
Um, you do realize that LOTR has been around a lot longer than the movies, right? It was started in like 1939 and published in 1954 or so. If it doesn't look dated after 50 years, it probably won't look dated after 60 either...
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It goes back to building a cab or at least the controls (=BYOAC). What emulator is used is besides the point. But maybe it should read "1 COIN TO PLAY THEM ALL".
BTW wasn't Good for extended play a derivative of mame's "Game Not Over"? Good that that line gets axed too then ::)
Since when is "Game not over" exclusive to MAME? I would think anyone restoring or playing older games, no matter the form, would agree with it... :(
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Talk about lousy timing.
Unbelievably, I have been called away for the weekend. I will probably only be able to check in 1 or two times before Sunday evening. I can only imagine what creation I will come back to!
I trust that you kids can play nice while I'm gone? The emergency numbers are on the fridge. :D
Later
Dave
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That said, any LOTR reference is going to look awfully dated in a few years...
Um, you do realize that LOTR has been around a lot longer than the movies, right? It was started in like 1939 and published in 1954 or so. If it doesn't look dated after 50 years, it probably won't look dated after 60 either...
Yes, I certainly do (read the books years ago) but LOTR is currently high up on the pop culture radar, and won't always be as "hot" as it is right now.
That said, I did change one of my votes to "ONE COIN TO PLAY THEM ALL" ;)
Kevin
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That said, any LOTR reference is going to look awfully dated in a few years...
Um, you do realize that LOTR has been around a lot longer than the movies, right? It was started in like 1939 and published in 1954 or so. If it doesn't look dated after 50 years, it probably won't look dated after 60 either...
Yes, I certainly do (read the books years ago) but LOTR is currently high up on the pop culture radar, and won't always be as "hot" as it is right now.
That said, I did change one of my votes to "ONE COIN TO PLAY THEM ALL" ;)
Kevin
I guess if it wins, it wins. I know I won't be buying tokens with a Lord of the Rings reference on it. I'm in this for arcade tokens.
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That said, I did change one of my votes to "ONE COIN TO PLAY THEM ALL" ;)
I guess if it wins, it wins. I know I won't be buying tokens with a Lord of the Rings reference on it. I'm in this for arcade tokens.
I know how you feel, but after thinking about it, "ONE COIN TO PLAY THEM ALL" has a nice ring to it - it's similar to the "ONE COIN ONE PLAY" type of line on tokens, yet has a bit of that "multi-game" vibe from MAME.
The fact that the phrase also evokes a LOTR memory is just a nice coincidence -- I definitely don't like the "Rule them all" version, as it's very LOTR-ish.
We may end up having to be very generic on this line, as I'm afraid any slogan is going to find detractors and limit the appeal, but I hate to think that "committee-think" blanded-down what is still turning out to be a great project. :-\
Kevin
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One more vote against LOTR references. I don't get the connection.
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1 coin to play them all
Game not over
The game is never over
My top 3 choices, in order :)
--- saint
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Personally, I don't have an issue with needing to explain a latin phrase to anyone. As if I don't need to explain my arcade obsession already?
My favorites, in order:
Let the games begin (it has such a nice gladitorial/ancient rome flair)
Ludo Ergo Sum
Building you memories
In fact I would vote to scrap the "No Cash Value" since no one is using these in a commercial setting and go with "Let The Games Begin" on the top and "Ludo Ergo Sum" on the bottom. They both have that roman/gladiator flavor and latin on a (faux) coin is not out of place.
Don't you guys want people to look at these and ask you questions? Not like any of us like to talk about the hobby.
just my .02
-Dave
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Personally, I don't have an issue with needing to explain a latin phrase to anyone. As if I don't need to explain my arcade obsession already?
My favorites, in order:
Let the games begin (it has such a nice gladitorial/ancient rome flair)
Ludo Ergo Sum
Building you memories
In fact I would vote to scrap the "No Cash Value" since no one is using these in a commercial setting and go with "Let The Games Begin" on the top and "Ludo Ergo Sum" on the bottom. They both have that roman/gladiator flavor and latin on a (faux) coin is not out of place.
Well, I may be misunderstanding the whole point of this project. My thought was that this was to be similar to Surgeville's excellent token, which is personal to him but looks like it could have come out of a real game room. None of my arcade experience ever included Roman gladiators, Lord of the Rings, or kewl slogans everywhere.
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What's so different about a "kewl slogan" like "Good for extended play"?
Besides, what's wrong with a little bit of humor. Surgeville's tokens have humor in them and I think that makes them unique. I understand that my fossil pacman coin face is taking things a bit too far, but on the other hand I don't see why the whole coin needs to be full with only names and standard phrases.
p.s. I like "LUDO ERGO SUM" instead of "NO CASH VALUE" too
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Well, I may be misunderstanding the whole point of this project. My thought was that this was to be similar to Surgeville's excellent token, which is personal to him but looks like it could have come out of a real game room. None of my arcade experience ever included Roman gladiators, Lord of the Rings, or kewl slogans everywhere.
Guys, he's right. There's no room for fun on this token. The only acceptable option is INSERT TOKEN IN MACHINE TO PLAY GAME. It's descriptive, reasonably authentic sounding, and completely devoid of fun.
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Well, I may be misunderstanding the whole point of this project. My thought was that this was to be similar to Surgeville's excellent token, which is personal to him but looks like it could have come out of a real game room. None of my arcade experience ever included Roman gladiators, Lord of the Rings, or kewl slogans everywhere.
Guys, he's right. There's no room for fun on this token. The only acceptable option is INSERT TOKEN IN MACHINE TO PLAY GAME. It's descriptive, reasonably authentic sounding, and completely devoid of fun.
C'mon. There is middle ground. I really think that the slogan needs to be arcade related. No one should look at the token and say "WTF?" Only certain people saw LOTR, and to the rest of us, we say WTF?
It should be fun in an arcade context . If people say "WTF?" I will lose my shirt.
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I don't like the latin phrases or LOTR stuff. "The game is never over" is kinda what I had in mind, unless someone wants to go for a line more like "The games will never die", tying into the preservation/MAME scheme. After all, the games do "end" after you run outta chances/lives, ya know? Ha.
If the "No cash value" is going to be used, then a couple of those other lines are too similar. I don't mind that line, but it isn't anything special either.
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Well, I may be misunderstanding the whole point of this project. My thought was that this was to be similar to Surgeville's excellent token, which is personal to him but looks like it could have come out of a real game room. None of my arcade experience ever included Roman gladiators, Lord of the Rings, or kewl slogans everywhere.
Guys, he's right. There's no room for fun on this token. The only acceptable option is INSERT TOKEN IN MACHINE TO PLAY GAME. It's descriptive, reasonably authentic sounding, and completely devoid of fun.
C'mon. There is middle ground. I really think that the slogan needs to be arcade related. No one should look at the token and say "WTF?" Only certain people saw LOTR, and to the rest of us, we say WTF?
It should be fun in an arcade context . If people say "WTF?" I will lose my shirt.
Well, this is your show, so it's up to you. If you don't want it to go in this direction, you may want to say so now so you don't alienate people who weren't expecting this turn of events.
As for me, if this is the direction people want, this would not be a token I'll be interested in, so I'll get out of your way.
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What's the use of voting if you start to dismiss specific lines upfront? If most people like that line, it has to do with the project. If not then not. So far maybe 3 people have voted for it.
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What's the use of voting if you start to dismiss specific lines upfront? If most people like that line, it has to do with the project. If not then not. So far maybe 3 people have voted for it.
You're right. I was simply trying to move the project forward rather than send it back to sqaure one, and that was wrong. For that I apologize.
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My votes:
One credit
Free Game (or free play)
or if we really need a "slogan" then "The game is never over."
I don't feel the need for an actual slogan unless it's pretty universally popular/appealing. The 'one credit' or 'free game' feel authentic to me. There's a reason for them to be on the token. The problem with a slogan IMHO is that it brands the token too much. It will also limit its appeal. After so much work and interest, it would suck for someone who wants to order BYOAC or MAME tokens to not love the end result. Something authentic and simple avoids turning people off. I just don't think that having a specific tagline adds more value to the token for the people who like the phrase than it takes away from its value for people who don't like it. Just my opinion. I really doubt were going to find a single specific phrase that pleases a majority without turning off a decent number of the minority. :-\ I'll buy regardless of the final text, tho for the record I'm no fan of the LOTR reference.
I guess i'd sum it up like this:
We should put the most popular to the final vote, but maybe avoid running any that are specifically disliked by significant numbers of interested members regardless of how popular they otherwise are. :P I like (obviously) my "Better Living Through Gaming" line but since some specifically dislike it, I don't want it going on the token, or even up for a vote, period.
Edit: In the length of time it took me to write this it looks like the posts have covered most of this ground already. :-[
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Here's the deal. I am on my way out for the weekend. Let's let people propose whatever they want in their top 3. Let not get involved with critiquing them. This Sunday evening when I get back we can look at the most frequently suggested ones and create a poll.
If the group really wants something crazy, the pre-orders will determine if I think we should proceed.
I will be up front though, if the group comes up with a clever arcade related slogan I will be much more comfortable going forward even though there is un-pre-sold-stock. ( IE I will take more risk if the slogan is arcade related or functional.)
Fun is good, but I am not willing to foot the bill for it with lost sales due to the "WTF? factor"
Choose Wisely.
Dave
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Regarding edge text:
Game Not Over (Game Is Not Over?)
One Credit
Good For One Credit (Good For One Play?)
Regarding stipling:
If it's an extra cost for a die with stipling, that helps push towards front stipling only or no stipling at all. I still prefer front stipling only.
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It's already $45-$50 a set I think, so any reduction in cost is good. I mean after all it's only something neat to add to the cab, it's not like it's necessary... Stipling and nickel plating might look cool, but is it worth the extra $10+ per set? (I'm sure some will say yes, but I'd rather spend my money on actual games. I might even back out should a poor design/slogan be chosen or the price get too high.)
Anyways, my votes for design/slogan are more or less in, but I'll stop by to see if there's anything new before the vote.
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One Credit
Good For One Credit
The Game is Never Over
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Let me throw out a thought...what about no motto whatsover? Just remove the lettering and make the image fill the whole side of the coin? We still would have BYOAC on the one side and a pretty cool looking design on the other?
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Because a few people have expressed a preference for the Atomic design, I thought I'd blingify it in case its included in the voting. So it's apples to apples with the two now.
In thinking about it, Santoro if you want me to mock up anyone elses logos used in the voting (so they all can be compared in a matching format) let me know. I'd just need the designer to provide me with a 600x600 pixel black and white jpeg.
I'll check back Sunday night since I'll be offline most of the weekend.
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Well, we need to winnow down the list. I think we have more than enough choices, so unless Santoro disagrees (it's his show) please vote for three of the ones on the list (including his addition, since it's his show).
I put a new one up because I thought it was kind of funny, and because i'm not particularly moved by any of the ones "on the list." Why settle for what people thought of early, when we don't have to decide til later? Something brilliant might occur to someone.
That said...
Game not Over
The game is never over
In games we trust
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Pixel - That's the design I've had my eye on. I hope it "wins", but at least now I know it'll be in the vote and looking good.
More ideas...
Memories saved by MAME
Great games revisited
The games will live on...
Keep the games, keep the fun
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Because a few people have expressed a preference for the Atomic design, I thought I'd blingify it in case its included in the voting. So it's apples to apples with the two now.
In thinking about it, Santoro if you want me to mock up anyone elses logos used in the voting (so they all can be compared in a matching format) let me know. I'd just need the designer to provide me with a 600x600 pixel black and white jpeg.
I'll check back Sunday night since I'll be offline most of the weekend.
It is probably too late for this but I would like to see this atomic logo with MAME instead of BYOAC and the slogan Better Living through Gaming. Just for comparison. I think this might also have the potential to sell to more people.
For the other side I like the One Credit for the top instead of No Cash Value and The Game is Never Over for the bottom.
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---warning - long winded blathering ahead---
I didn't mean to start a flame war (or at least our very well-mannered version of one). I was trying to respond to some of the blanket objections that were being thrown out, like not wanting to have to explain the token.
As for Roman/Gladiator flavor, I just meant that these (video) games are about competition. With each other, with the AI and with the challenges of design that we all seek out and so share something with those ancient "games". Don't we all want to see ourselves a some kind of kick as warrior? Even when you play Tetris? Just a little bit? I think those slogans captured a little bit of that.
I'm not suggesting that we make some thing that is so geeked out only a couple of people will want it. I can't see that happening as this project is another fine example of how the people in this community build off one anothers efforts to produce excellence.
You know, looking at how there rest of the token design has come together from what folks have put together so far, there's no way I'd pass on buying at least one set no matter what the edge text winds up saying.
A few folks have really taken the lead with this and deserve a lot of credit, but I also think part of what is making this so fun and cool is the way it seems to be bringing everyone together on a project in a way that would usually be impossible. It would be great if we could all hang out together in Saint's garage and build cabs together and this project is the closest I've gotten to that feeling. I love it and hope there's more to come.
I don't think anone has really meant to bully, but sometimes it sounds like - "that sucks, if you do it that way then I am out" and kind of like a threat. I think folks can express their dissatisfaction without going to those kind of extremes.
I think the LOTR line was suggested mostly in jest and folks quickly jumped all over it. That kind of response may tend to discourage people from contributing their ideas. I wouldn't like to see less contribution.
And, I'm not sure anyone HAS to indicate their dissatisfaction with a given suggestion. The project has come this far mostly by people contributing to a consensus of what is good or appealing. I think if people continue to indicate what they DO like, we'll wind up with great tokens to buy without making anyone feel bad about their suggestions. If somebody comes up with a bad idea, others won't sign on and it'll sink as good ideas float.
When you brainstorm, no idea is a bad idea because even the most ridiculous thought may spark someone else' inspiration.
Again, just my two cents and thanks to everyone
-dave
P.S. I still like Let the Games Begin and Ludo Ergo Sum
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"Game not over" drives me nuts. It reminds me of "got milk" or "you've got mail" .... really badly worded statements.
There've been plenty of other acceptable suggestions.
"Not redeemable for cash"
maybe I'll add some later. I'm watching 12 monkeys.
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or "Not Redeemable for Beer" either!
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Pixel,
I have attached a zipped file (change extension...) of the two designs I posted: Player 1 bathroom, AmericanDemon's PacMan. Black and White 600x600 jpg's as requested. I removed the slogans so that you can put in whatever suits you.
/shrug - I like the current designs, but it will be interesting to see these blingified
- Calawala
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In thinking about it, Santoro if you want me to mock up anyone elses logos used in the voting (so they all can be compared in a matching format) let me know. I'd just need the designer to provide me with a 600x600 pixel black and white jpeg.
If it's not too much trouble, could you do mine too? I wonder how the rounded electrons will look when shiney.
PatTokens.zip (http://arcade.laweb.nl/PatTokens.zip)
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How's this for a design:
(http://www.pobjoy.com/images/products/L2302405.gif)
;D
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I think the LOTR line was suggested mostly in jest and folks quickly jumped all over it. That kind of response may tend to discourage people from contributing their ideas. I wouldn't like to see less contribution.
I most certainly submitted it in jest. Had I known it would cause such a fuss, I would have left well enough alone and kept quiet. Rather than cause any further disruptions or hissy fits, I'm going to crawl back into my hole now. (A hobbit hole? :P)
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For the other side I like the One Credit for the top instead of No Cash Value and The Game is Never Over for the bottom.
I like this - I don't think the "No Cash Value" is needed, and this gets both a credit message and a slogan on the coin. Good idea!
Speaking of slogans, it's not like tokens don't have them -- all the Chuck E. Cheese ones have "Where a Kid Can Be a Kid" on them. I realize the slogan may be a contentious point here, but I hope we can include one.
Kevin
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I don't think anone has really meant to bully, but sometimes it sounds like - "that sucks, if you do it that way then I am out" and kind of like a threat. I think folks can express their dissatisfaction without going to those kind of extremes.
How precisely is it a threat to say "I'm not interested in buying tokens with LOTR references on them"?
And I presume, since you appear to have no interest in having something that feels like it came from a real arcade, that you'll be including Latin and gladiator pictures on your Galaga bezel?
Chris,
Will you knock it off already? Latin phrases are used for loads of things to sound cool and the phrase "ONE COIN TO PLAY THEM ALL" has nothing to do with LOTR (well only third hand anyway). If you don't like it then don't vote for it, but stop trying to muscle everything you don't like out with a huge load of (nonsensical) arguments and vague threats (and yes openly stating you wont buy them is a threat).
BTW I don't see what dag2000's Galaga bezel has anything to do with this. Didn't even know he had one actually.
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---warning - long winded blathering ahead---
I'm not suggesting that we make some thing that is so geeked out only a couple of people will want it.
Which is exactly where this is heading.
I don't think anone has really meant to bully, but sometimes it sounds like - "that sucks, if you do it that way then I am out" and kind of like a threat. I think folks can express their dissatisfaction without going to those kind of extremes.
How is it bullying to mention that I'm not interested in buying a token with a LOTR reference? I wouldn't dream of forcing you to buy a token with an actual arcade reference, and I'm sure Santoro wants to know if a particular choice will turn off potential buyers.
Since people don't want negativity or criticism, though, perhaps people who just don't care should say "I'll buy it no matter what it says", which is just as useful information.
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BTW I don't see what dag2000's Galaga bezel has anything to do with this. Didn't even know he had one actually.
He doesn't. I misread it as your post. I've edited that out.
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Chris,
I guess it is just the way it came out. It sounded like an ultimatum. Especially so since you are one of the co-designers of the coin, which sorta makes you hold a special place in this project, so naturally a lot of people would like to see you happy with it. Also, I think that part of the resentment may be because since you already hold a big piece of the design pie, you would try to "muscle" your opinion (as important as it is to us) in such a manner.
Personally I think ONE COIN TO PLAY THEM ALL has enough meaning to stand on its own. It's just too bad that it was derived from the LOTR slogan. I'm not so attached to it though and would be just as happy with a pair of functional slogans such as NO CASH VALUE, GOOD FOR ONE CREDIT, etc. I too think that this coin should be authentic-arcade first, cool personable slogan second.
- Calawala
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I guess it is just the way it came out. It sounded like an ultimatum. Especially so since you are one of the co-designers of the coin, which sorta makes you hold a special place in this project, so naturally a lot of people would like to see you happy with it. Also, I think that part of the resentment may be because since you already hold a big piece of the design pie, you would try to "muscle" your opinion (as important as it is to us) in such a manner.
Well, I have forwarded my original art file to Pixelhugger, so I no longer hold any piece of the design pie. Thank you for your kind comments.
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In all the mayhem I missed Pixelhuggers new rendition of the Atomic BYOAC logo (see reply #335 (http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=13;action=display;threadid=19172;start=msg154196#msg154196)). Looks very good ...
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Well, I have forwarded my original art file to Pixelhugger, so I no longer hold any piece of the design pie. Thank you for your kind comments.
Nonsense. Pixel is just touching it up so that it is consistent with the front side. You deserve recognition for the kick-ass design.
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How about if we scrap all the phrase, slogan stuff all together and have the BYOAC with the pacmans on one side and Pixel's MAME atomic image on the other side? I know people run other emulators beside MAME, hell I have Atari, Sega, Nintendo, Virtual pinball just to name a few, but MAME is what I'll be slugging tokens into for the authentic arcade games I rember. I'll leave it at that, I have to go practice on Joust so I can beat my buddy the next time he comes over! ;D
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edit: blinged it and it looked like crap. removed.
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Nice one too!
Maybe we should have sets of several different coins. Or an annual coin design event ;D
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Because a few people have expressed a preference for the Atomic design, I thought I'd blingify it in case its included in the voting.
This ones kicks ass. I think this on the front, and the atari guy on the back, with a new slogan.
Game Not Over is NOT a good slogan IMO. :P
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How about if we scrap all the phrase, slogan stuff all together
I think it's becoming somewhat clear that putting a slogan on the token is almost the same as coming up with an official slogan for BYOAC itself. I think that's why the discussion has gotten so charged. This same issue stalled the t-shirt thread absolutely dead in its tracks for MONTHS. And it never did end up going anywhere. Ultimately Frosty did his own thing since nobody could decide. I "vote" again for something broad enough to feel authentic without limiting appeal or isolating absolutely anyone. The old "less is more" thing.
and have the BYOAC with the pacmans on one side and Pixel's MAME atomic image on the other side?
I think Chris' Atari guy is best suited. I really like it's personality and design. Putting Mame on the other side feels like a distraction... trying to make the coin too many things at once. That said, I appreciate that you like it dms! Maybe I'll win the lottery and run some custom Mame tokens in the future.
I absolutely LOVE the idea of an annual design contest. I'd probably buy set or two EVERY time. The collectability factor alone is reason enough for me. The collaboration with other people on artwork and all the thread following (and drama) is too. Something about waiting to see the next design pop up in the forum gives me the same sort of feeling I had as a kid when I got to a previously unseen intermission in a game.
I've never watched a thread in the artwork forum with as much activity as this. My email notifications have been going off like so much Jiffy Pop. I go to post and by the time I finish typing several other posts have appeared. I second the call for making this an annual thing. Great idea.
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edit: blinged it and it looked like crap. removed.
Perthaps the lines were too thin. Mine looked awful in the first few iterations until I realized that thin lines just won't work in this application. Remember that it's getting sized down to less than an inch across in the final product.
Thicken up the lines that define the cabinet, and reverse the rim so it's a series of bums rather than a series of depressions. It should "bling" quite nicely at that point. It's a good overall design.
--Chris
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I also like the idea of the Atomic logo on one side, with the Pac-Man logo on the other.....both sides with BYOAC on 'em.
Also, the Player 1 guy in the "O"....is there a way to make that look concave, like the button? To me, as it is right now, it looks like a convex button, which looks a bit unnatural to me. I dunno if it's possible to do it, but seeing what I have thus far, I've got to believe it is.
I'm all for scrapping any and all "slogans" and making the image larger, EXCEPT for "www.arcadecontrols.com" and "build your own arcade controls". What about putting those two things on BOTH sides instead of a slogan? Pixel or Chris, can either of you work that up so others can see what it'd look like? I think if folks could see the simpler design lines of that, more might want to scrap the slogan altogether.
Personally, I don't understand why it's not obvious that MAME should be used for someone's token design on a MAME site. Since we are all posting about this on a BYOAC site, keep it specific to this site.
Sure, the majority of folks ARE using MAME, but the reason they're here is that they wanted to Build Your Own Arcade Controls to use with their cabinet.
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I am not interested in these tokens (I don't have a coin mechanism) but I have enjoyed this thread immensely...
Anyways, I took the kids to Chuck E. Cheese tonight and paid special attention to their tokens.
The one thing that I thought was interesting that corresponds to the last few points about an annual run is that all the Chuck E. Cheese tokens had the year on them. My group of tokens all looked the same but had years from 1999 to 2003.
This might be an appropriate thing to add in lieu of the controversial slogans as well...
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I am not interested in these tokens (I don't have a coin mechanism) but I have enjoyed this thread immensely...
Anyways, I took the kids to Chuck E. Cheese tonight and paid special attention to their tokens.
The one thing that I thought was interesting that corresponds to the last few points about an annual run is that all the Chuck E. Cheese tokens had the year on them. My group of tokens all looked the same but had years from 1999 to 2003.
This might be an appropriate thing to add in lieu of the controversial slogans as well...
Years have definately come up for the reverse. The original thought was that we didn't want the dies to be useless after a year, but you're right; if we're going to do an annual coin, I think a year becomes a must.
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For more on Chuck E Cheese tokens, see http://users.pullman.com/fjstevens/tokens/cec/CECdesigns.html .
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Alright, here's a coin reference and a useful motto on a BYOAC token:
"IN SAINT WE TRUST"
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You guys still want to toss out "MAME" and keep a more game-specific Pac-Man design instead? Or is it that you just want an instantly recognizable icon for whatever reason?
I still gotta go with the atomic logo. And in Santoro's interest, he's gotta be able to sell what he buys. Having BYOAC as a theme will limit sales to users here. Going with something a little more generic but still customized enough to be interesting would enable him to sell it to people here and still have a good chance of selling the excess to other MAME'ers who don't visit these forums.
Who says we need a logo on the token? Lots of places have text in the center, so maybe that's another design idea you guys can play with. If not MAME, try one of the backgrounds that were created and have a saying in the middle like "emulating games always" or "Bringing the past to the present" (they suck, but you get the idea).
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Who says we need a logo on the token? Lots of places have text in the center, so maybe that's another design idea you guys can play with. If not MAME, try one of the backgrounds that were created and have a saying in the middle like "emulating games always" or "Bringing the past to the present" (they suck, but you get the idea).
The earlier argument against this was that some people have real, non-emulated machines in their game rooms.
My machine is heavily MAME-themed, so I would like a MAME token, but I'm happy with a BYOAC token with either the Pac-Man or Atomic fronts. The Atomic front could be good because I think it would look better unstippled, which is cheaper. The Pac-Man version really benefits from the stippling, which is more expensive, but is easily recognizable (the atom suffers a tad under the logo). Both are fabulous works of art.
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Man, who'da thunk some people collect Chuck E. Cheese tokens? Very neat site...
Anyways, I gotta ask one dumb question because everyone keeps talking about selling other "Mame'ers" who aren't on this forum.
It seems to me that those people for the most part aren't on this forum because they haven't built their own arcade cabinet, and thus are just playing MAME on their PC.
So where would they put the tokens?
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I've been debating this all day, but I'm going to take a deep breath and plunge back into treacherous water here and propose a solution.
Some people here want a "realistic" game token to complement all the work they've done on recreating a genuine arcade experience in their cabinets and controls. (Isn't this why we have coin doors in the first place?) I obviously fall into this group.
Some people here want a "fun" experience on their tokens and don't want to waste space on practical things that are pointless in a home game room environment. Dag2000 falls in this group.
Some people here will be happy with either direction. Pixelhugger falls into this group.
Some people here don't want to lose their shorts if they offend one of the other groups. Santoro is this group. :)
TIME FOR COMPROMISE.
As shown in previous designs, there is room for two phrases on the back of this token: a smaller one on top and a larger one on the bottom.
Approximately forty phrases have been floated. About a quarter of them are realisic, tokeny, coinage-related phrases and the rest are various slogans.
I suggest we split the phrases into these two groups for voting, and put a realistic, tokeny phrase on the top and a fun, slogany phrase on the bottom.
For the remainder of this thread until Santoro returns, we all suggest one to three phrases from each group, either existing phrases or new ones.
In order to fit, the top phrase should probably be no longer than 18 characters (This takes "GOOD FOR EXTENDED PLAY" out of the running, which should make many people happy), and should be related to the value (or lack thereof) of a token or some other expression that would be found on a real coin. The bottom phrase should be no longer than 28 characters; it really should at least tangentially related to arcades, or Santoro may find it to be unsaleable. (Note that if the top and bottom that are finally selected are maximum length, one will have to give, as these sizes assume both slogans won't be maximum size.)
Nobody criticizes anyone's ideas. This is purely a brainstorm and popularity gauge. Our sole option of expressing dissatisfaction with a choice is to not mention it as one of your favorites.
If you will buy a set no matter what a token says, please say so. This is probably important information for Santoro.
Since we are now talking about an annual series of tokens, it is possible that a date will be added to the central design, so it is not necessary to "waste" one of your text votes for a date, unless you feel strongly that the date should be on the rim instead of in the central design.
Can we make this compromise and continue to move forward, or do we need to wait for an "executive decision" from Santoro?
Presuming we can move forward, here are my choices under the new guidelines:
TOP:
NO CASH VALUE
ONE CREDIT
BOTTOM:
WHERE THE GAME IS NEVER OVER
WHERE THE GAME NEVER ENDS
THE GAME IS NEVER OVER
--Chris
(Edit: Changed choices for bottom)
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That seems to be a good compromise. Myself, I'll buy it no matter what it says after I manage to make it to the bank.
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Here is the the Atari back, modified to include the date and to include a different slogan. Since we're now talking about a potential series, I've also added my initials in tiny print to the back; I think PixelHugger should do the same on the front. It can easily be removed if people dislike it.
(Yeah, I don't have the bling.)
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I think that the date should be added to one side. Even if this isn't done annually I think it would make the coins a bit nicer.
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TOP:
NO CASH VALUE
ONE CREDIT
BOTTOM:
errm...I'm to tired to think... at this point I just want an authentic type coin... so anything authentic sounding... whatever that means... I dont think I'm being much help here.. good night
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I would never buy a token that says "IN SAINT WE TRUST" on it. At least some people would get the LOTR reference, but nobody would have a clue as to what that's supposed to mean.
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I suggest we split the phrases into these two groups for voting, and put a realistic, tokeny phrase on the top and a fun, slogany phrase on the bottom.
Chris- I'm a bit concerned with this arrangement; it pre-supposes that everybody wants a "tokeny" phrase on top and a "slogany" phrase on the bottom. I think it's a great idea for everybody to vote for 3 phrases from each group, as that will narrow it down to everybody's favorites from each group. From that round of voting, I propose that we take the top 3 from each group, giving us a "final 6". Then vote again on our favorites from the final 6, without separating groups. This accopmlishes two things:
a) if it turns out that the majority really does want two "tokeny" phrases or two "slogany" phrases, that will show up in the voting.
b) people who voted for phrases that got cut in the first round still have a voice in the final selection.
I also think "no edge text" and "just stars/pac-men/whatever" are viable options for the space we're arguing over, and should be included in the voting options.
----
On a separate note, I love the addition of the initials at the bottom of the cab- just like the "FS" under Jefferson on the nickel! (below quoted from http://www.kcshop.com/CoinInfo/Jefferson_Nickels_Coin_Pictures.htm )
Both the obverse and reverse were designed by Felix Schlag. In 1966, his initials FS were added below the bust.
I expect to vote for this design, whichever edge text option we choose! ;D
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Oops! Forgot to vote!
No Cash Value
One Credit
Good For One Credit
Game Is Not Over
Ludo Ergo Sum
Blank / Stars / Pac Men
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I suggest we split the phrases into these two groups for voting, and put a realistic, tokeny phrase on the top and a fun, slogany phrase on the bottom.
Chris- I'm a bit concerned with this arrangement; it pre-supposes that everybody wants a "tokeny" phrase on top and a "slogany" phrase on the bottom.
We already know that everybody does not want that. This was meant to be a compromise between those that only want tokeny phrases and those that only want slogany phrases. Since not everyone can get what they want, this is a way to give everyone some of what they want.
a) if it turns out that the majority really does want two "tokeny" phrases or two "slogany" phrases, that will show up in the voting.
Not necessarily. Since there are far fewer "tokeny" prases than "slogany" phrases, "slogany" phrases will appear to dominate.
I also think "no edge text" and "just stars/pac-men/whatever" are viable options for the space we're arguing over, and should be included in the voting options.
Suggesting a blank phrase for either the top or bottom is a perfectly valid answer.
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Oops! Forgot to vote!
2004
Note: Since the latest suggested plan assumes that the date will be part of the design, I interpret this as a vote for the date to instead appear along the top rim. Is that what you intended?
--Chris
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Note: Since the latest suggested plan assumes that the date will be part of the design, I interpret this as a vote for the date to instead appear along the top rim. Is that what you intended?
Oops, no. 2004 vote was the result of a bad cut & paste. Post has been edited to reflect correct vote.
This was meant to be a compromise between those that only want tokeny phrases and those that only want slogany phrases. Since not everyone can get what they want, this is a way to give everyone some of what they want.
Ah, I see what you're getting at. My way left a possibillity for an "all tokeny" or "all slogany" coin. Your way, neither side wins, but neither side loses, either. So nobody should complain, or back out of the deal. Ok, I can live with that.
And to everyone, my apologies for slowing things down. How is it we got so much great artwork without much controversy, but we're bogged down on the words around the back edge? ::)
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Several alternate suggestions for the top text line were already given by a few people (from message #320 onwards, but I have seen mention of it before as well):
- Let The Games Begin
- Ludo Ergo Sum
- One Credit
people have been suggesting their 3 phrases for the bottom line for a while already.
BTW good to see a series of authentic tokens which all sport a silly slogan (sometimes even more than 1). Apparently it doesn't have to be a geek collection of standard phrases to be authentic after all.
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I suggest we split the phrases into these two groups for voting, and put a realistic, tokeny phrase on the top and a fun, slogany phrase on the bottom.
The same thing's been suggested earlier in this thread, and I like it. (I changed my vote Friday for a top and bottom slogan - post 276)
Between that and adding the date, I think we've got a winner of an idea. Just the final voting to pick a top and bottom text.
Kevin
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How is it we got so much great artwork without much controversy, but we're bogged down on the words around the back edge? ::)
Because it's the easiest thing to change, and the thing with the highest range of possibilities. We started in the same plae on the front, but once we realize we needed the URL and had to spell out BYOAC, that pretty much got set in stone. And then the hungry phrases started fighting it out for the two remaining spaces on the back.
The more I think about it, the more "Where The Game Is Never Over" starts to really leap out at me as the perfect choice. It fits the whole "game not over" theme; it matches perfectly the spirit of your game room, where you can play to your hearts content; it's a perfect fit for the BYOAC front; and it sounds like it would really belong on a token, much like Chuck E. Cheese's "Where A Kid Can Be A Kid". And if the slogan ends up being too long, it can be shortened to either "Where The Game Never Ends" or "The Game Is Never Over". I wish I could find who suggested it. It may have mutated naturally from kevsteele's "The Game Is Never Over".
I'm going to go back and edit my top three for the bottom to reflect these choices.
I'll do a mockup with this to see if a phrase that long looks good....
--Chris
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How is it we got so much great artwork without much controversy, but we're bogged down on the words around the back edge? ::)
Because it's the easiest thing to change, and the thing with the highest range of possibilities.
I though there was a call for slogans and that after the weekend there would be a vote on the most suggested candidates (at least I guess it's prudent to wait for the final design to be elected before choosing the slogan). So I guess it's not so much "bogged down", but more going along as planned. Allthough some people seem to be getting ahead of themselves ;)
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Still can't do the bling.... <sigh>
(EDIT: Replaced lousy image)
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Chris,
I like the new version, quite a bit (especially the designer's initials on the cab ;))
The date really does make a nice addition, as well.
Kevin
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Chris, nice! Try it with the date under the Y-guy's left armpit.
Also, I know it'll bug some people, but I have (what I think is) a good idea for a slogan:
NO CASH VALUE - HIGH NOSTALGIA VALUE
It could go all the way around one side or half on each side.
I like "In saint we trust" but... talk about having to explain an inside joke!
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Chris, nice! Try it with the date under the Y-guy's left armpit.
Also, I know it'll bug some people, but I have (what I think is) a good idea for a slogan:
NO CASH VALUE - HIGH NOSTALGIA VALUE
Hmmm..... That has possibilities, too... I think that's going to turn into one of those "you either love it or hate it" ones... Nice!
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Chris, I think the most recent version looks great. I'm all for it.
Although I like the look of the double outer border, what do you think of making it a single border and enlarging the letters? or I gues the graphic could get bigger alternately.
I think the designer initials should be a little bit bigger or maybe thicker?
I like the date.
Could you do a version with the slogans flipped? I mean with the one credit as the bottom text and the slogan as the top text. It'd be good to see both ways, I think.
Just for the record, while I expressed a preference for the "fun" style, I did make clear that I was in no matter what slogans were chosen.
The "compromise" is actually pretty much what you originally proposed. (see below)
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How's this for a design:
(http://www.pobjoy.com/images/products/L2302405.gif)
;D
Nice. :D
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edit: blinged it and it looked like crap. removed.
I'd love to see it. I am a huge fan of yor arcade explosion work.
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Chris, I think your your approach was helpful, thanks.
I am going to try to put together the polls tonight. 1) for a the 'tokeny" text, 2) for the "slogan" and 3) for Atomic Vs Pac face.
Moderators, please forgive the forum clutter, I am just not sure how else to get a good pulse on the opinions. I would love to have this all nailed by Tuesday AM for ordering.
I can't wait to see these things.
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I like the clutter :)
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OK, the polls are up.
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Also, I kinda like the date. I think we should use it, especially if we want to do this again next year. That started out as tongue in cheek, but you never know. This has been fun....
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Question for the infinitely patient Mr Santoro...
If you order both the brass and nickel tokens, will you be selling any lots of half/half? (100 brass/100 nickel)
I'm guessing that depends on what is left after the initial claiming of tokens.
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Question for the infinitely patient Mr Santoro...
If you order both the brass and nickel tokens, will you be selling any lots of half/half? (100 brass/100 nickel)
I'm guessing that depends on what is left after the initial claiming of tokens.
At the moment I can't think of any reason why not. It would probably be popular.
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I agree Santoro, I think this should be a yearly happening. It would be a tangible memory piece for everyone involved on these boards. I'd do such every year.
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Still can't do the bling.... <sigh>
I really like this image. But how about this for a nit? I think your initials looked better on the previous image where they were closer to the front edge of the cabinet. I have no problem with your initials appearing on the image.
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Still can't do the bling.... <sigh>
I really like this image. But how about this for a nit? I think your initials looked better on the previous image where they were closer to the front edge of the cabinet. I have no problem with your initials appearing on the image.
Neither do I, except that I am afraid the mint will say it is too small/detailed to reproduce.... :-\ We will cross our fingers.
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Still can't do the bling.... <sigh>
I really like this image. But how about this for a nit? I think your initials looked better on the previous image where they were closer to the front edge of the cabinet. I have no problem with your initials appearing on the image.
Neither do I, except that I am afraid the mint will say it is too small/detailed to reproduce.... :-\ We will cross our fingers.
I don't expect them to be clearly visible. However, the initials will be no smaller than a trademark symbol on a "real" token, so they'll be there if you look carefully.
--Chris
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OK, I have decided to close voting in the three polls at 4PM EST today, May 17.
If the slogan is a tie we might need to do a run-off vote, we'll see. If it comes to that it will be really short (4-5 hours), as I want to order these friggin' things already.
Once we finalize the polls, I will post the winners here and re-open the pre-order thread. If those pre-orders are coming in at a steady pace I probably will just place the order.
As soon as Pixel and Chris can do thier magic and provide the line-art, we can submit the order. I would like to send the vector art also in case they can use it. I still haven't heard back as to whether they can use it.
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We never settled the issue of stippling on the Happy Guy side.
I will put up a poll but it will close today at 4 also. If there is a tie, Pixel, Chris, and I will decide with a 3-man vote.
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Talking to myself here.
The Mint will take Adobe Illustrator Files. Whatever we finalize, let's try to submit in that format.
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Talking to myself here.
The Mint will take Adobe Illustrator Files. Whatever we finalize, let's try to submit in that format.
Excellent!
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OK... I'm dumb, what was the final price on these ?
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Polls are closed. So, how to go forward. Here are our winners:
- PAC-Logo
- NO CASH VALUE
- THE GAME IS NEVER OVER Still open. :-\
- THE GAME IS NEVER OVER
- Stippling X2
I am going to get on the phone with the actual engraver tomorrow and figure out how he wants us to represent stippling in that file. After that we can send it in.
I will re-start pre-orders in the Buy/Sell/Trade forum momentarily. I am just doing a quick triple check on the $35 pricing.
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Polls are closed. So, how to go forward. Here are our winners:
- PAC-Logo
- NO CASH VALUE
- THE GAME NEVER ENDS (I always hum an Alan Parsons song when I read this)
- Stippling X2
I am going to get on the phone with the actual engraver tomorrow and figure out how he wants us to represent stippling in that file. After that we can send it in.
I will re-start pre-orders in the Buy/Sell/Trade forum momentarily. I am just doing a quick triple check on the $35 pricing.
Where did "THE GAME NEVER ENDS" come from? I don't even see it on the poll. I just see a tie between one of the game is not over types and the LotR one. Am I missing something?
EDIT: Nevermind, I see you fixed it.
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Somehow I have the Alan Parsons Song "Turn of a Friendly Card" stuck in my head...
"The game never ends - whne your whole world depends -on the turn of a friendly card...."
I have made the same mistake through this whole exercise.
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Polls are closed. So, how to go forward. Here are our winners:
- PAC-Logo
- NO CASH VALUE
- THE GAME IS NEVER OVER Still open. :-\
- Stippling X2
How about "The Polling is Never Over" :-\
Seriously, when is the new cutoff for the slogan voting?
Kevin
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I am going to get on the phone with the actual engraver tomorrow and figure out how he wants us to represent stippling in that file. After that we can send it in.
We need clarification on the height levels as well, and how they're represented. I'm suprised they haven't sent you a specification...
- Are more than one height level available? I see us needing at most four if they don't cost extra...
- Is black considered raised and white considered the lowest level?
- Do we need to create the art at actual size or will they scale it appropriately?
- Is there a minimum distance that our art will be from the edge of the planchet?
- Related to this question, does the edge of our desgn correspond to the edge of the planchet or some inner margin? (Actually, I guess that's the same question.)
- Are the token edges smooth or reeded, or do we have a choice?
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- THE GAME IS NEVER OVER Still open. :
how about:
Insert one to continue......
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I am going to get on the phone with the actual engraver tomorrow and figure out how he wants us to represent stippling in that file. After that we can send it in.
We need clarification on the height levels as well, and how they're represented. I'm suprised they haven't sent you a specification...
- Are more than one height level available? I see us needing at most four if they don't cost extra...
- Is black considered raised and white considered the lowest level?
- Do we need to create the art at actual size or will they scale it appropriately?
- Is there a minimum distance that our art will be from the edge of the planchet?
- Related to this question, does the edge of our desgn correspond to the edge of the planchet or some inner margin? (Actually, I guess that's the same question.)
- Are the token edges smooth or reeded, or do we have a choice?
All good questions. If you or Pixel PM me a phone number I will conference you in when the engraver calls. Otherwise I will ask the questions and take notes. I am not an Illustrator user, so that would help.
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Seriously, when is the new cutoff for the slogan voting?
Kevin
It is over. I have decided that The Game is Never Over won fair and square, despite misundersandings about the process.
Next stop, finalizing the art.
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Seriously, when is the new cutoff for the slogan voting?
Kevin
It is over. I have decided that The Game Never Ends won fair and square, despite misundersandings about the process.
What about "THE GAME IS NEVER OVER"? :)
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Just shoot me now. Please? ;D
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Next stop, finalizing the art.
Sounds great. I look forward to the new ordering info - I guess my only other question is: are you going with both bronze & plated tokens?
No matter - I'll be putting in an order either way, but if you're offering both I may want a "50/50" order. :D
Kevin
Oh, and "bang." You're welcome...
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Next stop, finalizing the art.
Sounds great. I look forward to the new ordering info - I guess my only other question is: are you going with both bronze & plated tokens?
No matter - I'll be putting in an order either way, but if you're offering both I may want a "50/50" order. :D
Kevin
Oh, and "bang." You're welcome...
Yes, I am going to order both and offer 100/100 orders. We might run out of brass first, but that is a positive problem that can be remedied by another run.
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When you have everything finalized. could you please edit the first message and place the final design(s) in it? I think this would make it easier for people to find.
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Okay, I'm starting to finalize art for the back. Pixelhugger's at work for a couple more hours; I'm sure he'll jump in later.
I've gone around with a fine toothed comb and adjusted spacing on stars and lettering, and I slid the initials farther forward on the cabinet. Presuming we can do so, I have the initials at half depth instead of full depth so they're more subtle. I've checked line thicknesses and lettering sizes agains real tokens, so they should be okay. I've spaced out the letters in the date slightly as they ran together in the last image. (Should the date be smaller?)
In this version, I've also added dentils. Dentils are those tiny raised marks just inside the rim that always seem to be on the back of tokens. The questions here are a) do we like the dentils (I don't want to start a big vote, but Rom's design had dentils (albeit triangles instead of regular token dentils) and I really liked it, and I'd like to include an element of his design), and b) if we want dentils, do we draw them or just tell them "we want dentils on the back"? (Most of their stock designs have denttils as well.)
Again, don't want to start a big debate, just want to get a feel for details. Pixelhugger will give us the full bling later.
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(Note: In reality the rim is higher than the dentils; I forgot to render it that way. This is to protect the rest of the token when laying on a flat surface.)
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For clarity's sake, here's that design as line art:
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When you have everything finalized. could you please edit the first message and place the final design(s) in it? I think this would make it easier for people to find.
absolutely, that was my intention.
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Chris, you may want to rethink where you're initials go. Think about the die and what it does, where they are now they will basically be little CL shaped pins on the die being slammed down into brass at whatever the force is and I reckon they'd break. If they were in relief, say next to the year, they'd be tiny engraved indents in the die and it wouldn't be an issue. Most lettering you see on coinage is in relief, I don't know if this has something to do with the reason why or not.
Of course I don't know that this would definitely happen but I'd rather be safe than sorry. Maybe get Santoro to check with the engravers.
Just a thought! :)
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Chris, you may want to rethink where you're initials go. Think about the die and what it does, where they are now they will basically be little CL shaped pins on the die being slammed down into brass at whatever the force is and I reckon they'd break. If they were in relief, say next to the year, they'd be tiny engraved indents in the die and it wouldn't be an issue. Most lettering you see on coinage is in relief, I don't know if this has something to do with the reason why or not.
You're probably right. I'll look at that. Thanks!
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Okay, I've levelled off the bottom of the cab to match Happy Guy's (missing) feet and put the initials below that:
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I like the dentils very much Chris.
Would you try placing the date unter the United Way (/coughYMCA/cough) guy's left armpit and make it a bit larger so its easier to read. Just wanna see if it looks good there.
You should find a way to enlarge your enitials. As they are, you will need a electron microscope to see them on a token.
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I like the dentils very much Chris.
Would you try placing the date unter the United Way (/coughYMCA/cough) guy's left armpit and make it a bit larger so its easier to read. Just wanna see if it looks good there.
You should find a way to enlarge your enitials. As they are, you will need a electron microscope to see them on a token.
I think you're right. I just overlaid a token sample from the mint, and the date is avbout the same size as their mintmark. It'll probably need to be bigger. My initials are half the size of their mintmark. Eek.
Since we're going to do this on an annual basis, should we include their mintmark?
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I like the dentils very much Chris.
Would you try placing the date unter the United Way (/coughYMCA/cough) guy's left armpit
So long as it doesn't look like armpit hair! ;D
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Chris,
Looks good. I think I liked the "long" version of the arcade cab better (it allowed you to believe that you're only seeing the top half of happy guy ;)), but I can't think of a better place to put your initials (and you certainly deserve that! Good job.)
Is the stippling something they add? I'm assuming so, but for clarity's sake you might want to put it on the final "showcase" graphic.
Dentils are fine - I like it either way.
Kevin
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So long as it doesn't look like armpit hair!
eeew. We should include some wavey lines radiating from Mr. YMCA guy's right armpit to illustrated the strong oder from not taking a shower in days. That and he picks his nose.
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For reference, I've overlaid one of their tokens (in red) with our design. You can see that the text size is a good match, and you can see the date in front of their TD mintmark. I wish I had one of their tokens in my hand...
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Is the stippling something they add? I'm assuming so, but for clarity's sake you might want to put it on the final "showcase" graphic.
I'll leave that to Pixel, as I'm not sufficiently stipplerific.
I hope the stippling doesn't interfere with the date or initials...
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I think the date should go under the armpit and your initials should become the TD. ya think?
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Okay, I just size-tested against a Chuck E. Cheese token; these are dated. Our date is half the size. Ouch. The initials are also smaller than their mintmark, which I have to hold two inches from my face to read. Double ouch.
Back to the drawing board...
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Love the dentils.
How on earth did you know that word?
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http://www.coinresource.com/guide/coin_diagram.htm
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Also a woodworking term for trim of the same design, usually placed at the top to add visual interest to the piece. You can find dentil molding at your local big-box home center.
In case anyone wanted to add it to their cab, and all...
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The closer I examine real tokens, the more I'm worried about the size of the text on the front...
I've got the date and initials whjere they need to be, presuming I'm correct about how the design fits on the planchet. I'll start examining the front...
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Also a woodworking term for trim of the same design, usually placed at the top to add visual interest to the piece. You can find dentil molding at your local big-box home center.
In case anyone wanted to add it to their cab, and all...
Come to think of it I guess my fireplace has it. Next trip to Home Depot I will see what they call it.
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Have fun with your token, Chris and company! It was an interesting couple of days. :)
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Here's a comparison of the front with a quarter.The URL text is aout half the size of the words "QUARTER DOLLAR":
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Chris, any chance of getting the joystick 1/2 the height as the cabinet? What I mean is so the joystick isn't raised as much as the cabinet off of the coin face. I think this would give the illusion that the joystick is in the center of the cabinet.
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That does seem a bit small. Its size is imbetween LIBERTY and IN GOD WE TRUST
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Chris, any chance of getting the joystick 1/2 the height as the cabinet? What I mean is so the joystick isn't raised as much as the cabinet off of the coin face. I think this would give the illusion that the joystick is in the center of the cabinet.
I tried that at one point, but it looked odd. The intent was for the cabinet to be a silhouette with no detail; having a single detail in a third dimension stands out in a way that's not positive.
I think there's a lot of room for levels on the face of the coin, but the back probably works best as a silhouette.
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Whoops! Ignore that... I just realized I accidentally used the Atomic design... let me do that again with the right design...
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The font sizes are the same on the pac design.
With the Atomic logo, there's a double ring at the base of the text; one of the rings could be moved and the text (at least the URL) made larger. On the Pac design, it'll take smaller Pac-Men.
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That does seem a bit small. Its size is imbetween LIBERTY and IN GOD WE TRUST
I just checked it against a Family Fun Center token. It has a ring of text slightly smaller than ours, which is small but readable when held about a foot away. Its fonts are thinner, though, so ours should show up better.
If we could do anything to make them bigger, though, it would be good.
Here's the Pac front merged with the Family Fun Center token. (The FFC token is smaller than quarter size.)
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Pixelhugger, what if we lost the outer ring and let the rim be the outer ring? That would let us make at least the URL larger. Or would that compromise the design too much?
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Actually, thinking about my last post regarding the initials on the back. There may be a similar issue or two on the front with the fine channels around BYOAC and the button. I suppose let the engravers make the call.
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Chris - Thanks for all your leg work on the font issues. And the superimpositions. That's a huge help. I'll revise to make the type larger. I also need to work on the dot spacing. If I'm not mistaken the engraver has seen some of these designs already and didn't think we'd have a problem with the type. Santoro, am I right? Regardless, I think after seeing Chris' comparisons the type should be bigger.
I'll get that line art blingified for you Chris. I think I saw it a bit earlier in the thread.
Pretty cool that this has been the most active thread in the history of BYOAC. In just a few days! Bodes well for next years contest/interest in tokens.
Before too much revising goes on, should we make a decision on the legal issues of the PacMan design? Saint? ....
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RE: fonts: Right. {edit:he said "we can make this token"}
RE: Pac: I would love more info on the types of actions Namco has taken. I would be a little surprised if the "pie" we have on this token is copyrighted.
Anyone (SirPoonga?) have more info?
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Actually, thinking about my last post regarding the initials on the back. There may be a similar issue or two on the front with the fine channels around BYOAC and the button. I suppose let the engravers make the call.
Well, it also depends on the skill of the mint. The minting on the Family Fun Center token is crisp and sharp with fine detail. My Malibu Grand Prix token is less sharp, but has fine line depressions similar to the BYOAC logo; it comes from the Roger Williams Mint, same as Chuck E. Cheese. The least sharp one that I have is a generic token which is not sharp at all and would not hold up to our detail level. Its mint mark identifies it as the Hoffman Mint.
Looking at their examples, they look similar to the Roger Williams detail level, maybe slightly worse. I'll re-measure some of the lines...
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RE: fonts: Right. {edit:he said "we can make this token"}
RE: Pac: I would love more info on the types of actions Namco has taken. I would be a little surprised if the "pie" we have on this token is copyrighted.
Anyone (SirPoonga?) have more info?
Well it's probably not an issue with it being copyrighted. It's more likely a trademark issue. Since its a character, it's use is probably governed as a TM. It is definitely recognizable as Pac Man. ANAL, so anyone else have a better idea?
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RE: fonts: Right. {edit:he said "we can make this token"}
RE: Pac: I would love more info on the types of actions Namco has taken. I would be a little surprised if the "pie" we have on this token is copyrighted.
Anyone (SirPoonga?) have more info?
I thought they were mostly worried about people selling replica art for cabinets, since they licensed that out. But the basic Pac is a simple geometric design, probably impossible to trademark. That'd be like trademarking Tetris blocks or the X's and O's in Atari Football. If the ghosts or Ms. Pac-Man were on there, I'd be more worried.
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It is definitely recognizable as Pac Man. ANAL, so anyone else have a better idea?
If we're really worried, use the Atomic logo. Note that Surgeville has Pac and ghosts on his and hasn't been sued...
We'd be just as likely to be sued for the side art and marquees on our cabinets that have characters (probably MORE likely) than for these tokens. And those are a LOT easier to find with a simple Web search than any of these threads.
However, if we go for a MAME token next year which has appeal outside this site, I'd avoid characters.
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look here:
http://www.namcoarcade.com/index.asp?site=pacman (http://www.namcoarcade.com/index.asp?site=pacman)
Our guy looks nothing like the ones on that page. I think we are safe. I think that Saint needs to be OK with it too, because his site appears on the tokens.
Saint?
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look here:
http://www.namcoarcade.com/index.asp?site=pacman (http://www.namcoarcade.com/index.asp?site=pacman)
Our guy looks nothing like the ones on that page. I think we are safe. I think that Saint needs to be OK with it too, because his site appears on the tokens.
This can't be a good omen.... we're using the same font Namco uses for their logo! (if you don't see the resemblance, it's because they're using lower case.)
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WOW. Now that's bizarre. I had used this typeface for my Mame logos waaaaay back before I ever thought of using it on a Pac design. My introduction to it was completely unrelated. Hmmmm. Of course there's no legal issue. But like you said. Omen. I think the whole thing is up to Saint. No company is ever going to sue an individual for art use on a private cab. The only thing that worries me is that BYOAC is a large site. Dedicated to something Namco surely doesn't appreciate. There's a book out now. Like I said. It's up to Saint I think. CURSE ME FOR NOT THINKING OF THIS. *smacks face on keyboard*
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WOW. Now that's bizarre. I had used this typeface for my Mame logos waaaaay back before I ever thought of using it on a Pac design. My introduction to it was completely unrelated. Hmmmm. Of course there's no legal issue. But like you said. Omen. I think the whole thing is up to Saint. No company is ever going to sue an individual for art use on a private cab. The only thing that worries me is that BYOAC is a large site. Dedicated to something Namco surely doesn't appreciate. There's a book out now. Like I said. It's up to Saint I think. CURSE ME FOR NOT THINKING OF THIS. *smacks face on keyboard*
Well, although I think the Pac logo is great, there's always the atomic, which is problem-free...
Oh, if you have a moment for a bling, check your E-mail... :)
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looking to order... and I'm remembering from before that nickle was slightly more... is this still the case? I'd like the nickle, and want to make sure I pay my fair share...
thanks guys... :)
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No my friend, check yours ;)
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No my friend, check yours ;)
Survey says... BLINGARIFIC!
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If the price went back down to $30 or something and the Atomic logo used, I might jump back on the wagon here. I mean, the design isn't bad, I'd just choose not to have a single game/character being a central part of the token. Something "universal" I guess is a good way to explain it. Not boring and generic though.
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I don't think the price was ever $30 for a two-sided token...
That said, I'm getting more and more worried about the Pac-Man. It would be nice to be able to strike more sets and make them available for "official" sale if the demand is there; having Pac-Man on it forces us to keep this as a "private" buy.
Once again, Santoro, it's your show. Of course, you're probably in bed by now...
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Just a quick question. With the dental edge does the outer ring look crowded now? I am just suggesting that Chris or Pixel have a look at it from an artistic point of view.
Great job though...Cheers.
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I don't think so... I've been looking at a LOT of tokens lately, and there's a lot less going on in our tokens than in most.
By the way, I don't know if Santoro's asked, but there's probably a possibility that the mint will add their mintmark to the token, or they may ask us to do so. Not that that's a bad thing, especially if this becomes a series and we don't always use the same mint.
--Chris
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Just a quick question. With the dental edge does the outer ring look crowded now? I am just suggesting that Chris or Pixel have a look at it from an artistic point of view.
I just tried it without the outer ring, leaving the rim and the dentils as the outer ring... and you may be right about that. I'm playing with it.
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Just a quick question. With the dental edge does the outer ring look crowded now? I am just suggesting that Chris or Pixel have a look at it from an artistic point of view.
You were absolutely right. I've attached a new mockup, this time smaller; it's hard to see these some of these design flaws on a large canvas.
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That does look very nice. :)
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That does look very nice. :)
Thank you for the suggestion!
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I thought it looked cleaner without the dentils.
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So whats the current front / back?
I'm still hoping to have
"1 coin to rule them all"
or
"1 coin to run them all"
So, but I'm seeing one side really coming up... but was the other side decided on pages ago?
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So whats the current front / back?
I'm still hoping to have
"1 coin to rule them all"
or
"1 coin to run them all"
So, but I'm seeing one side really coming up... but was the other side decided on pages ago?
The text you see is the final text.
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Just smack me if I'm overstepping here. But if you do decide to pass on the Pac-man token because of TM issues and go with the atomic token, how about still keeping the Player 1 button for the O on the atomic token. I really love that little detail from the Pac token. *ducks* ;)
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Not overstepping at all... the only issue I can see is that it may obscure too much of the atom...
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Yeah, that could be a problem. Oh, well, either way I love them, and I've already ordered my set! ;D
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From being in a electronic recording industry and pressing vinyl records with samples obviouslly ripped from movies/tv, I can tell you that the tokens are really too low of a run for anyone to care about a pac man design on one side. 5000 tokens isn't going to make enough waves. The biggest problem that you will have is the pressing plant makeing you a die or pressing a coin with a die that may have copyrighted material on it. If it gets by them, you shouldn't really have to worry about it. The pressing plant could also be held accountable for pressing something with a copyrighted material.
If you really want to play the safe route, go with the atomic design but I can't really see there being any problems.
Pretty much any time you see someone comeing after someone else for useing IP without permission is when the item in question becomes popular and is turning enough profit for the person with the copyright to care. The rest of the time you see it is when they want to protect the IP from being used in ways that can reflect negativly on the company. (Disney in porn or something to that effect)
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Well, since it's Saint's URL that's on the token, I suppose it's his call...
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If you look closely at Pac-Man you'll see that he's actually an octagon with a slice cut out and not a circle. ;)
-S
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If you look closely at Pac-Man you'll see that he's actually an octagon with a slice cut out and not a circle. ;)
Ooh! Good call!
And if you get the nickel-plated tokens, he's not even yellow! ;D
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HAHA
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Chris check your PM
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Well, since it's Saint's URL that's on the token, I suppose it's his call...
I have e-mailed Saint. It is certainly his call. Chris, Pixelhugger, and myself are all a little nervous about what this might mean to him.
I am going to post a disclaimer of sorts in the pre-order thread and send emails to those that have ordered stating that there is a chance that the design will have to change to the atomic one to protect BYOAC.
If we later decide we have to change the design to the atomic one, I will immediately refund the money for those that request it.
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Pixelhugger, would it be possible to see the BYOAC side with only 1 inner ring between the lettering and the atoms instead of 2?
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I'll be updating the Atomic logo later tonight (Im still at work) and I'll do a 1 ring version. :)
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You guys are great! :)
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Still favoring the atomic logo. At least it doesn't have that tooth effect around the edge. It looks too busy like that.
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Still favoring the atomic logo. At least it doesn't have that tooth effect around the edge. It looks too busy like that.
Part of that is the ring next to it, which I've removed, and part of it is the bling effect which thickens the smaller details. It'll look much better at proper size.
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As Chris pointed out to me, it's time to look at the designs at a smaller size. I've been busy revising the atomic logo to enlarge the text since at 1" across the final piece it gets very small.
I will post images WED. I'm experimenting with different ways to preview the actual output. A high resolution color laser print turned out beautifully and it clearly demonstrates the difference between screen output and reality. This coin is going to look fantastic IMHO. I imagine the metal output will be far sharper and even more impressive.
Even at the smaller design size the text is readable on 1" printed output. Without squinting. But it FEELS small. Revising the design for a smaller BYOAC and atomic symbol allows for type that feels right and is easily read.
Please be patient as I put these semi final images together. I have a crazy busy day at work WED.
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These are the latest versions. Still not as small as actual size. This shows the current reduction of the BYOAC logo size to accomodate larger type. Later WED I hope to post images that represent what these will look like at coin size. I am also interested in revising the previous atomic design (post #483) to a single ring version leaving everything else the same. At that point it would be great to get an idea of whether we want to favor a more prominent BYOAC logo that extends nearly edge to edge, with small feeling (but fairly readable type) or whether we want to have more easily read type at the expense of the logo size. At least we're closing in!
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Would an Atomic version with the electrons and their trails at half depth still be an option? I think it would clear up the outer edge of the lettering.
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Would an Atomic version with the electrons and their trails at half depth still be an option? I think it would clear up the outer edge of the lettering.
Pixel, not sure how hard this would be, but it would probably be nice to see. I agree with Patrick - one of the things that does bother me (only a little) is that the 'orbits' are sort of 'one' with the text outline. My personal suggestion would be to have the orbits at half-depth, and the electrons left where they are. I know you are super-busy, so there is no rush here. We can wait.
$0.02
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...... or whether we want to have more easily read type at the expense of the logo size..
I am for this. I am worried about the URL being unreadable by anyone without 20/20 vision. Truthfully though, whatever flavor of the Atomic logo we come up with will be fine with me.
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For the record.
After conferring with Saint, PixelHugger and Chris, we decided that we had to scrap the Pac-logo. Namco has been strictly enforcing its trademarks and we did not want to put arcadecontrols.com in harm's way by using what is clearly PacMan on the token. Think of the worst case scenario - Namco sees the token being used to promote another business and shuts down BYOAC. Maybe they are angry enough to start hassling other emulation sites, etc.
It unlikely, but I don't want to be responsible if it happens. Even the less drastic scenarios make it not worth the risk.
So, it was decided that the runner-up would be the official token. It is still a gorgeous design, IMHO.
I am sorry that the design process had so many fits and starts. Later I am going to post some 'lessons learned' for the next brave soul that tries to do something like this. Maybe next time will be a little smoother.
It was still fun, despite the bumps along the way.
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Well, that, for lack of a better word, sucks.
I personally can't see the doomsday scenarios you envision, but it's your call. I have to admit I'm very disappointed, as I really, reallly, really, liked the Pac-logo coin face.
I'm going to have to think about this now.
They say you always know a good compromise - because no one's happy...
Kevin
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Santoro, were you able to ask the mint about how many levels we're allowed? I know we were told our design could have "a few shades of gray", and we'e all assuming that means multiple levels, but what we haven't confirmed is whether or not this is an additional die charge. (If we have confirmed that it's no extra charge, I apologize for missing it.) If you look at a typical token, they are NOT struck very deep at all! The depth of the design on Pixelhuggers bling images is exaggerated to show detail, so I wouldn't count on multiple levels making that big of a difference.
That said, if we had a medium level, I'd agree that the orbits would look good at the medium heights with the electrons and everything else at full height.
Santoro: The text now, although not as large on the back, should be quite readable if we get a good strike like the Roger Williams mint. If it's more like the Hoffman Mint we may have trouble. I presume Tokens Direct uses the same equipment as Osbourne.... does anyone have a Chuck E. Cheese token with an Osbourne mint mark?
--Chris
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I saw a multilevel design on Roger Williams mint website. It has a circle in the background which is slightly lower than the logo. I thought that looked nice, but you might be right that if the whole print is shallow it will be hard to even notice.
I'm kinda surprised on the scrapping of the pac token, but I guess that was coming. What would happen if you asked permission? Ok that might be a dumb question ... so stop laughing now ... but still.
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Yes, Roger Williams does nice work. The question is does Tokens Direct put out the same quality of work?
I'm all for it if it doesn't increase die charges. I also think multiple levels will be lost in the stippling. The nature of the Atomic design, with its thin curved lines, may keep us from including stippling on that side. The problem here is that we will NOT get an actual token as a proof, so we may need to err on the side of caution on issues like stippling and levels.
--Chris
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These are the latest versions. Still not as small as actual size. This shows the current reduction of the BYOAC logo size to accomodate larger type. Later WED I hope to post images that represent what these will look like at coin size. I am also interested in revising the previous atomic design (post #483) to a single ring version leaving everything else the same. At that point it would be great to get an idea of whether we want to favor a more prominent BYOAC logo that extends nearly edge to edge, with small feeling (but fairly readable type) or whether we want to have more easily read type at the expense of the logo size. At least we're closing in!
Pixel, I like the new design... much cleaner. I'm assuming your outer ring actually represents the token rim now as opposed to a circle within that rim?
Note that, unlike these images, the rim is actually higher than the rest of the image. This makes little difference on the front, but a big difference on the back, where the dentils line the rim:
(http://www.c-5.com/fjstevens/tokens/cec/CECimages/CECoc.JPG)
It's worth noting that the token in this image comes from Osbourne Coinage, the parent company of Tokens Direct which is doing our tokens.
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Ok, I spoke to the engraver. They put me on with him immediately so I didn't have time to conference anyone in. I think I got answers to the relevant questions.
In a nutshell,
-They prefer vector art and would appreciate the blinged pictures for reference only.
-Stipple can be represented as textured fill, or color, or whatever because he is going to replace it anyway. He will refer to the .jpg for guidance
-Text must be converted to curves!!!
-To show depth, use shades of gray, dark meaning deep, light meaning shallow.
Did I miss anything?
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I was noticing on the Atomic logo that the one orbit, the one running from the 2 o'clock to 8 o'clock has its electrons very close to the BYOAC logo. Would it be a good idea to flip this ring so that the electrons are on the 'high side' away from logo? Just a suggestion.
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For the record.
After conferring with Saint, PixelHugger and Chris, we decided that we had to scrap the Pac-logo. Namco has been strictly enforcing its trademarks and we did not want to put arcadecontrols.com in harm's way by using what is clearly PacMan on the token. Think of the worst case scenario - Namco sees the token being used to promote another business and shuts down BYOAC. Maybe they are angry enough to start hassling other emulation sites, etc.
It unlikely, but I don't want to be responsible if it happens. Even the less drastic scenarios make it not worth the risk.
So, it was decided that the runner-up would be the official token. It is still a gorgeous design, IMHO.
I am sorry that the design process had so many fits and starts. Later I am going to post some 'lessons learned' for the next brave soul that tries to do something like this. Maybe next time will be a little smoother.
It was still fun, despite the bumps along the way.
VERY sad to see the pac-logo go cause I thought it looked much better and was far more appropriate.
Still, the current design is nice & my order stands.
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I was noticing on the Atomic logo that the one orbit, the one running from the 2 o'clock to 8 o'clock has its electrons very close to the BYOAC logo. Would it be a good idea to flip this ring so that the electrons are on the 'high side' away from logo? Just a suggestion.
Then you lose the symmetry. And if you flip all the rings to match, you just move the problem to the other side.
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Santoro, are you or anyone thinking of having a "groupe buy" of .984 coin mechs?
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Now that we'll have the tokens, we need custom coin reject inserts for "INSERT BYOAC TOKEN". Or maybe "BYOAC TOKENS ONLY". Or "1 BYOAC TOKEN 1 PLAY". The bottom text should probably be "PUSH TO REJECT", but since these are custom, maybe we should play around with it...
Santoro, do you want to start three new threads and polls, one for the overall design, one for the top saying, and one for the bottom saying?
;D ;D ;D
--Chris (running for cover)
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I voted for the Pac design, but am just as happy with the atom. It was a tough call anyway, they're both such great designs.
dmsuchy, I was just about to ask the same thing. Does anyone have a source for a good buy on .984 mechs if we order in quantity?
-S
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Note: If you take the image from post #489 and print it at exactly 200 dpi, the images come out exactly the size of a US quarter. Our tokens will be slightly larger, but that difference will probably be made up by the token rim.
It is VERY exciting to see them at that size! I may even cut them out and tape them to a quarter...
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Santoro, are you or anyone thinking of having a "groupe buy" of .984 coin mechs?
I't a great idea but no, I'm mentally exhausted from the tokens. ;) Anyone else up for it?
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Santoro, are you or anyone thinking of having a "groupe buy" of .984 coin mechs?
I't a great idea but no, I'm mentally exhausted from the tokens. ;) Anyone else up for it?
Those mechs (in plastic) are $14.10 each from Happs. In quantities of 6 or more they're $12.25 each. Metal mechs are $20.30 each, or $19.30 each in metal.
http://www.happcontrols.com/wp/item_search.html?item-no=42-3112-00 (http://www.happcontrols.com/wp/item_search.html?item-no=42-3112-00)
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Yeah, I was hoping someone might know of a better deal than Happs. I might be interested in organizing a group buy if there's interest and someone can come up with a cheap source.
-S
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Yeah, I was hoping someone might know of a better deal than Happs. I might be interested in organizing a group buy if there's interest and someone can come up with a cheap source.
-S
By the time you get them, split them up, repackage them, and re-ship them, you'll end up with the same cost, possibly more.
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Now that we'll have the tokens, we need custom coin reject inserts for "INSERT BYOAC TOKEN". Or maybe "BYOAC TOKENS ONLY". Or "1 BYOAC TOKEN 1 PLAY". The bottom text should probably be "PUSH TO REJECT", but since these are custom, maybe we should play around with it...
Santoro, do you want to start three new threads and polls, one for the overall design, one for the top saying, and one for the bottom saying?
;D ;D ;D
--Chris (running for cover)
OK, But we have to keep polling until everyone agrees on all points!
fuggetaboutit. :)
Custom inserts are a good idea though. hmmmmm
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Now that we'll have the tokens, we need custom coin reject inserts for "INSERT BYOAC TOKEN". Or maybe "BYOAC TOKENS ONLY". Or "1 BYOAC TOKEN 1 PLAY". The bottom text should probably be "PUSH TO REJECT", but since these are custom, maybe we should play around with it...
Santoro, do you want to start three new threads and polls, one for the overall design, one for the top saying, and one for the bottom saying?
;D ;D ;D
--Chris (running for cover)
OK, But we have to keep polling until everyone agrees on all points!
fuggetaboutit. :)
Custom inserts are a good idea though. hmmmmm
I have some in vector format, actually... I printed them on a laser, doubled them up, taped them together and slipped 'em in. So I could make a couple of custom files if anyone is actually gonna change their inserts for this...
(I'll probably regret saying that... :) )
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You're probably right. Oh well it was just a thought.
-S
Yeah, I was hoping someone might know of a better deal than Happs. I might be interested in organizing a group buy if there's interest and someone can come up with a cheap source.
-S
By the time you get them, split them up, repackage them, and re-ship them, you'll end up with the same cost, possibly more.
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Regarding custom inserts:
There's a clear inkjet "decal paper" that works great for inserts. I printed out some custom inserts for my pinball machine (which had none), cut to size and stuck them in the reject buttons (note: it feels like there's no real adhesive on the plastic, more like a "colorforms" kind of plastic that's tacky)
Hammermill "Invent It!" Clear Decals, Item #00064-3
Kevin
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Inserts shouldn't be clear; they're usually black on white vinyl to diffuse the light.
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OK here's an image that gives an idea of scale. Excuse the cheesy "Escape From Witch Mountain" quality of the composite. This is sized to just under 1". Scale of the coin to the hand should be exact.
Depending on your screen size and resolution this may or may not appear actual size. But you get an idea.
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Sorry to see that the Pac logo was scrapped, but looking forward to recieving my atomic BYOAC tokens!
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I was noticing on the Atomic logo that the one orbit, the one running from the 2 o'clock to 8 o'clock has its electrons very close to the BYOAC logo. Would it be a good idea to flip this ring so that the electrons are on the 'high side' away from logo? Just a suggestion.
Then you lose the symmetry. And if you flip all the rings to match, you just move the problem to the other side.
I thought you might say that. ;)
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Pixel-
Better change your avatar- Namco is watching you.
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I know this might sound stupid, but has anyone thought about approaching Namco and asking for permission to use the Pacman image? I'm only asking as I and I'm sure many others really dig the Pacman coin.
What if we offered to pay them for the use of the image. Pointing out of course that we are a group of hobbyists that intend to produce a limited number of coins for personal use amongst ourselves with no intention of selling them for profit. That way the ball is in Namco's court they can say sure we'll charge you $xxxxxxxxxx amount of dollars = p*** off, or who knows maybe give us permission for nothing. I know it's a looooong shot and maybe I'm dreaming in which case someone pinch me, but surely it's worth a try.
The only reason I bring this up is - no offense to Pixel's atomic coin, the design is great, but to me it's a bit generic and looses the whole arcade spirit that the Pacman coin embodies.
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Someone amongst us did almost the same thing with another project and was slammed with a cease and desist letter immediately.
If that person wants to go into more detail, they will speak up.
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Isn't the corporate world great. ::) Screw 'em, the atom token is just as cool.
-S
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I know this might sound stupid, but has anyone thought about approaching Namco and asking for permission to use the Pacman image?
It doesn't sound stupid to me. My cousin wanted to make button down the front shirts to sell with the John Deere logo on them. She called the president of John Deere, and he asked her how much money she planned to make off of the shirts in a year's time. She told him she wasn't planning on making a lot of money. She was just doing it for fun, mostly. He gave her permission to make up to $5,000 profit per year off the shirts, and he didn't even charge her a licensing fee. He just asked that she call him once a year and let him know how she's doing.
That being said, I'm perfectly happy with the atomic token design. And not every company president would be as nice as this guy was.
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Someone amongst us did almost the same thing with another project and was slammed with a cease and desist letter immediately.
If that person wants to go into more detail, they will speak up.
Guilty. :-\
In reference to this "project" (http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=4678) I inquired first with Midway and later with Taito (which now owns the
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Pixel-
Better change your avatar- Namco is watching you.
Done. ;)
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Someone amongst us did almost the same thing with another project and was slammed with a cease and desist letter immediately.
If that person wants to go into more detail, they will speak up.
Guilty. :-\
In reference to this "project" (http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=4678) I inquired first with Midway and later with Taito (which now owns the
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For those of you not following the token purchase thread, lead samples of the artwork have been posted. The link to the relevant page of that thread is http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=19225;start=120 .
--Chris
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Interesting tidbit taken from Retroblast:
Namco Defends Pac-Man
Looks like Namco is going after rappers to the tune of $10 million dollars for sampling Pac-Man without permission! I've heard horror stories about Namco vigorously defending their Pac-Man IP before, so this isn't a big surprise (the original BYOAC tokens were to have some pac-man images on one side, but it was dropped at the last minute due to litigation concerns). Thanks for the news item, Charles!