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Main => Everything Else => Topic started by: bobbyb13 on March 27, 2021, 10:09:12 pm

Title: Decent soldering tools...?
Post by: bobbyb13 on March 27, 2021, 10:09:12 pm: I know I have seen individual debates about particular items in the arsenal of a solder wielding person, but- and I promise I searched here a bunch of different ways before asking (and I can't find a comprehensive list on the forum...)

What is the standard list of tools required to do good soldering work?

Also massively helpful would be the brand/model of preference based on things which are inexpensive, mid-range price, and $$ is no object.

I started to look for one of those clamp things that looks like Doc Oc, a solder sucker, and the proper type solder to use for recapping a monitor chassis and was immediately overwhelmed with the choices and range of price.

I have no interest in buying cheap crap because I want to do good work (and not be frustrated and destroy things as I hopefully gain some proficiency) but if I don't have to buy professional level tools for basic maintenance work that would be awesome.

Any wisdom offered is greatly appreciated!
Title: Re: Decent soldering tools...?
Post by: Zebidee on March 28, 2021, 12:43:38 am: Last year I bought myself a reasonably price Aoyue Int701A++ "repairing system", which include a variable temperature soldering iron (with integrated smoke/fume sucker) and desoldering pump (good for taking stuff off boards). It is mid-range in terms of quality.

Iron is good. The desoldering pump is OK but seems to always need cleaning. However my solder sucker/solderpult (hand/spring-powered) still sucks hard and rarely lets me down. You should also grab some "desoldering wick" or "braid" as that can help in situations where the solderpult can't. I still prefer the solderpult or desoldering pump where possible, but sometimes using the wick is the trick.

Ordinary solder will do for most jobs, there is no special solder for monitor chassis. Typically you want the stuff with lead in it as it melts at lower temperature. For general purpose soldering (which most of it is) get solder with rosin/flux core 0.7mm diameter with a 60/40 or 63/37 ratio mix (tin/lead). I also have some really thing 0.25mm solder that I use for touching up really fine and tiny stuff.

If you want to do SMD work then you need a decent set of tweezers and solder paste. Mechanic brand is good, I use it from a small pot and also from a syringe. You'll also want some solder flux which helps the solder melt at higher temperature, handy for difficult spots. Flux also comes in syringe packs.

For SMD work it really helps if you use a hot air system. I use a "XXX 858D" which is a commonly cloned model cheaply available online. Mine actually says "JCD 858D" but there are many variations. A bit of getting used to, but it really makes life a lot easier for doing that tiny stuff.

You'll also need a combined magnifier/lamp on an arm, to help you see your work. You may also need magnifying glasses (they come with interchangeable lenses) and/or a secondary lens (use it in combination with your magnifying lamp to get greater magnification, just like what happens in a telescope/binoculars/microscope).

Get a solder scouring pad, like a steel wool pot cleaner in a pot, for cleaning and re-tinning your solder iron tips.

Roll of masking tape for lots n lots of things.

Some kind of stand or clamps or vise to hold your electronic boards while you work.

Tiny screwdrivers, pliers, wire cutters, old rag, toothpicks (really essential for SMD work, tidying up solder paste before blasting with hot air)

Get a digital multimeter if you don't already have one. I have many cheap DMMs ($10-$50) which are fine but the Fluke 17B+ (around $150-$200) is like wiping your donkey with silk by comparison (you have to say that like the Mandelorian from The Matrix movies). Grab some alligator clips that you can slip onto the ends of the probes, makes life easier.

Isopropyl alcohol for general cleaning up, but it kinda just moves old flux around. So, clean soapy water and toothbrush for really getting stuff clean once the job is finished (or before you do the job if chassis is really filthy). After washing with soapy, rinse with clean water. After gently padding stuff to semi-dry, use some isopropyl to help remaining water dry off quickly and leave less marks.
Title: Re: Decent soldering tools...?
Post by: Vigo on March 28, 2021, 12:47:30 am: Amateur soldering enthusiast, here. These opinions are my own. Disclaimer disclaimer disclaimer. ;D

I am going to say the fan favorite midrange soldering iron around here is going to be a Hakko FX888D. It doesn't come with bells and whistles like a hot air gun or an ultra fancy control station, but it is a quality iron that heats up lightning fast, with good tips and a digital thermometer. You can always get better, but anyone who goes cheaper is usually the kind of person who is happy with an old hardware store standard Weller.

The biggest requirement I have found is getting good rosin flux. I am not going into the debate about which flux is the best, as I will probably give you bad advice there, but I keep both flux paste and liquid electronics flux, and I have been finding more and more that the liquid stuff is brilliant for the smaller jobs. I don't get the corrosive stuff, but I quickly wash away with some isopropyl alcohol. I keep both my Rosin and alcohol in precision tip applicator bottles, which are cheap and easy to get on Amazon.

I tend to stick with a lead rosin core solder, and avoid the lead free. I 3d printed a fume extractor, but buying one isn't a heavy lift.

A lot of people love those PanaVise clamps, as they are designed for PCBs, and they sell models and extension bars to allow pretty large boards. I just mostly use a silicone mat. Gives you a nice work surface, and I generally don't need to do any clamping if I just solder on the mat.

I personally hate those syringe style vacuum solder suckers, and I use the desoldering wick, which is popular, and mix it with one of those desoldering irons with the suction ball on the side. Those are good for older electronics, but a but bulky for modern stuff.

Also, excellent lighting cannot be overstated.
Title: Re: Decent soldering tools...?
Post by: Vigo on March 28, 2021, 01:01:40 am: Here is more a shopping list format of some of my stuff -

Hakko Soldering Iron - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ANZRT4M/
Liquid Flux - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005DNR01Q/
Applicator Bottles - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B088TBWZYB
Silicone Mat - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XTDGN4T/
Ceramic, nonconductive inverted tweezers - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XC12RVR/
Desoldering Wick - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0195UVWJ8/
Carbon filter for fume extractor (If you make your own) - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KWYTCG5/
PanaVise - https://www.amazon.com/PanaVise-324-Electronic-Work-Center/dp/B000SSPNBU
Title: Re: Decent soldering tools...?
Post by: Zebidee on March 28, 2021, 02:15:07 am: Vigo's advice is all good! Very good. Thanks for the links too, I love seeing what other people use.

Probably worth adding that while you might not need a clamp/vice for most game PCBs or monitor chassis, you really do need something for smaller pieces (like GreenAntz transcoders!) as they will just slide and wobble around otherwise. Clamping it down frees your hands.

Using a (pana)vice has another advantage that it raises your work surface, so you don't have to stoop over your work as much. This gives you better ergonomics and your back/shoulders/neck will be less sore at the end of the day.

People usually seem to be polarised, either loving or hating solder pumps and having the opposite feelings about desoldering wick. Much of this really comes down to what you are used to, what works best for you. It doesn't have to be one or the other. They are both inexpensive and I try to use both as most appropriate for the situations at hand.
Title: Re: Decent soldering tools...?
Post by: yotsuya on March 28, 2021, 02:24:42 am: I bought a Hakko desoldering gun and would never part with it. I don’t waste my time with wick anymore, unless I really need it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Decent soldering tools...?
Post by: Zebidee on March 28, 2021, 02:44:44 am: Quote from: yotsuya on March 28, 2021, 02:24:42 am
I bought a Hakko desoldering gun and would never part with it. I don’t waste my time with wick anymore, unless I really need it.

Been thinking of getting one to upgrade from the Aoyue myself, even though it is barely a year old.

I've ripped up pads and traces by accident with wick. Scary stuff. Got to be careful with it.
Title: Re: Decent soldering tools...?
Post by: bobbyb13 on March 28, 2021, 02:57:37 am: You guys rock.
Thank you all very much for the info. :cheers:

My sister got me the coolest pair of 3M glasses that have led lights on the temples AND magnify too, so maybe my 50 yr old eyes can see what the hell I'm doing.

I could be imagining it, but I would swear that using denatured alcohol to prep solder areas made my soldering better.

Desoldering wick I have used, but sometimes it seems like it takes an uncomfortable amount of heat to get old crap off.
I'm new at it, so still not sure what stuff can tolerate for heat.
I did keep some old boards out of stuff to be tossed so I can practice on some cadavers.

The old Weller I have has worked for what I have done previously, but I need to look up the Hakko units and Panavice too.

I don't want to butcher these chassis (I have two Sharp Image and two Kortek that need help) so all help is very meaningful.

Mahalo nui loa!
Bobby
Title: Re: Decent soldering tools...?
Post by: Zebidee on March 28, 2021, 03:32:33 am: Quote from: bobbyb13 on March 28, 2021, 02:57:37 am
My sister got me the coolest pair of 3M glasses that have led lights on the temples AND magnify too, so maybe my 50 yr old eyes can see what the hell I'm doing.

I use the magnifying lamp on an arm and a separate lens, but those glasses are the bomb.

Quote
I could be imagining it, but I would swear that using denatured alcohol to prep solder areas made my soldering better.

Makes perfectly good sense. I should do that more often ::)

Quote
Desoldering wick I have used, but sometimes it seems like it takes an uncomfortable amount of heat to get old crap off.
I'm new at it, so still not sure what stuff can tolerate for heat.

Use a hot iron with a fat tip. It is all about heat transfer, you want it to get into the solder fast. I often have similar problems using the fine solder tip that I use to solder tiny things with, it just doesn't transfer enough heat to the wick. So now I keep another iron handy, a Hakko Presto 20/130W iron with a fat tip (so I don't need to change tips) for those dirty jobs. Solder flux (liquid kind) can help too, soak the braid in it (drop or two from the little bottles Vigo mentioned/linked earlier).
Title: Re: Decent soldering tools...?
Post by: bobbyb13 on March 28, 2021, 03:44:00 am: Quote from: Zebidee on March 28, 2021, 03:32:33 am
Use a hot iron with a fat tip. It is all about heat transfer, you want it to get into the solder fast. I often have similar problems using the fine solder tip that I use to solder tiny things with, it just doesn't transfer enough heat to the wick. So now I keep another iron handy, a Hakko Presto 20/130W iron with a fat tip (so I don't need to change tips) for those dirty jobs. Solder flux (liquid kind) can help too, soak the braid in it (drop or two from the little bottles Vigo mentioned/linked earlier).

All brilliant.

It's always the nuance of these things that makes the difference in how it goes.

The heat transfer thing... makes so much sense.
I've watched a few guys who were VERY good weld aluminum- and that is art.

Being able to see how fast something can absorb (and also dump) heat, and the difference between doing it right and wrong was an eye opener for me in regard to real welding (and speaks to soldering too then of course.)

I can put a car exhaust back together (and not beautifully at that) and sweat water pipes too, but I can't ever see having the skill to weld aluminum.

Hopefully I can sort out electrical solder!
;D
Title: Re: Decent soldering tools...?
Post by: PL1 on March 28, 2021, 06:56:32 am: One thing to consider with the Hakko is that the default tip that ships with it is the T18-D16.
- It's a chisel tip so you get better heat transfer than a conical tip . . . but it's only 1.6mm wide, which is a little bit on the small side.
(https://hakkousa.com/media/catalog/product/cache/94b062453b15a867a4a07509e48a650d/t/1/t18-d16_alt.jpg)

You may want some additional Hakko T18 series tips.
https://hakkousa.com/products/soldering/soldering-tips.html?series=68 (https://hakkousa.com/products/soldering/soldering-tips.html?series=68)

Here's a package deal with an 888D and a variety of tips. (T18-B, T18-I, T18-K, T18-D16, T18-D24, T18-D32)
https://www.amazon.com/Hakko-FX888D-23BY-Digital-Soldering-Station/dp/B010GGH9A6/ (https://www.amazon.com/Hakko-FX888D-23BY-Digital-Soldering-Station/dp/B010GGH9A6/)

Also, check if the vendor is an authorized U.S. distributor so you know you aren't getting a knockoff station or tips.
https://hakkousa.com/storelocator/ (https://hakkousa.com/storelocator/)
----------------
This flux pen works great and is very easy to clean up afterward. ;D
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008OC0E5M/ (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008OC0E5M/)

Scott
Title: Re: Decent soldering tools...?
Post by: Vocalitus on March 28, 2021, 08:09:43 am: I have some random iron I got with a kit on Amazon and it works ok and has a temperature dial. I think the helping hands grips are a very good idea as well as a good stand. I got this one (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K9XPMK6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) on Amazon.

On some youtube videos I see a lot of flux being used and not sure if I should get some flux paste or a flux pen. I bought some .6mm lead free solder and it works very well, but I see some people soldering trace connections with a extremely small tip with solder already on it. I suck at such work on use liquid wire glue for small traces such as TSOP connections (I posted about it somewhere else on here) which takes forever to dry but works very well.

One suggestion is to get a decent workstation for soldering that has all your tools available, lighted magnifying glass on a swing arm, and a proper soldering station. I see heat guns being used to loosen connections which is a great idea, but I am not sure it will damage the components surrounding. The hardest thing I found is the desoldering gun/pump. I could never get it to work properly so there must be a technique associated. I have some solder wick and that is another mystery on why I would use it as the stuff I solder uses small amounts as you are not supposed to tin the iron.

Any advice on the wick and the desolder pump would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Decent soldering tools...?
Post by: bobbyb13 on March 28, 2021, 08:31:04 am: Thank you (once again!) Scott for the Hakko unit link.
I'll have to find someone who will ship me a soldering pen too.

And then learn how to use it properly
Heheh
Title: Re: Decent soldering tools...?
Post by: eds1275 on March 28, 2021, 08:31:35 am: I have the Milwaukee M12 cordless soldering iron. It is fantastic in every way.
Title: Re: Decent soldering tools...?
Post by: nitrogen_widget on March 28, 2021, 11:18:37 am: I bought a $10 60W adjustable off amazon to replace the unkown wattage radio shack iron i'd been using for ever.
It's great.
On my old one the copper tips would flex over time and would end up anything but straight.
I had to constantly file the tips because they would degrade almost every time i used them (could of been the heat and the type of solder maybe?)
I was also lifting traces off boards if I wasn't careful.

when you are a caveman who has been using square wheels anything round seems a dream. :)
I just went with a cheap replacement because there are so many stations out there i had no idea what to pick.
so I will be checking out all the suggestions here.
Title: Re: Decent soldering tools...?
Post by: Zebidee on March 28, 2021, 09:40:16 pm: Quote from: Vocalitus on March 28, 2021, 08:09:43 am
On some youtube videos I see a lot of flux being used and not sure if I should get some flux paste or a flux pen.

Flux always leaves a bit of mess so I try to avoid using it, but sometimes you just need to. Get both kinds. Get some of the clear stuff Vigo mentioned above too, put it in a cheap plastic dropper bottle.

Quote
I bought some .6mm lead free solder and it works very well, but I see some people soldering trace connections with a extremely small tip with solder already on it.

The small amount of solder is there to greatly increase the surface connection between solder tip and pad/trace, increasing the speed of heat transfer. The heat quickly dissipates through other components in the circuit. Therefore you want to heat the solder and joining parts quickly so that they melt/weld together before heat builds up too much in the components, possibly damaging them.

You'll see this effect more when using a small solder tip to solder points to ground, as a large ground plane will suck heat away very fast. That tends to make the solder "blob" on your solder tip or component leads rather than welding to the grounding point. So you tin your iron and leave a small blob of solder on, and turn your tip sideways (along the ground surface) to maximise connection for heat transfer. Add extra solder and flux as required.

Quote
The hardest thing I found is the desoldering gun/pump. I could never get it to work properly so there must be a technique associated.

For the spring-powered solderpult kind there is a knack. I once got a TV tech to show me how. The trick is to do a quick and neat swap from soldering iron to solderpult and press the button. Set up your hands so you can move the iron & pump by simple wrist rotation. Practice. You might melt the tip a little as you get used to it.

You need to clean/empty solderpults quite often. Some have a very thin screw thread and it it easy to accidentally strip it if you aren't careful. However I've got one of those that I've been using for 10 years and is still going strong, and the tip is barely even melted!

Quote
I have some solder wick and that is another mystery on why I would use it as the stuff I solder uses small amounts as you are not supposed to tin the iron.

What are you soldering? You need to tin the iron with some solder as that maintains the surface and helps with heat transfer. The solder just coats the tip. That isn't the same as having a little blob of extra solder on the end (like I described above), if that is what you mean.

Quote
Any advice on the wick and the desolder pump would be appreciated.

Hakko desoldering gun mentioned above seems worth a try, but really I just wish I could get the desoldering pump on my Aoyue Int701A++ repairing station working a bit better. The suction not working like it should. Probably just something I'm not doing right with it, but I even read the manual and everything seems right :dunno
Title: Re: Decent soldering tools...?
Post by: jennifer on March 28, 2021, 10:19:40 pm: :)
Title: Re: Decent soldering tools...?
Post by: Ond on March 29, 2021, 12:35:55 pm: Seems like good advice on the 'must have' soldering gear. I've never actually owned a low voltage soldering iron. ;D I know folks will tell me just how much better they are and all ... Good equipment always makes the job more enjoyable and easier. I use a magnifier a lot for fiddly small work as below:

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=387128;image)

That piece was from a cell phone battery I was re-purposing. Recently I went next level in my soldering ambition and cut and soldered a micro harness from a laptop's screen to an extension cable. Beyond chip soldering level, that effort required my cell phone and a magnifier app. The wires so fine I couldn't see them with naked eye, so many of them ...it seemed hopeless. Nearly jumped out of of my seat with joy when the screen fired up OK. I don't have pics...guess it didn't happen. :angel:
Title: Re: Decent soldering tools...?
Post by: Gilrock on March 29, 2021, 02:18:42 pm: I bought this for desoldering and its worked great. I've recapped a CRT and replaced connectors on a Falcon lighting controller that needed a ton of heat for the 30amp pads.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07542D82F/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07542D82F/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

For soldering I like this simple digital Weller iron:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ARU9PO/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ARU9PO/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Title: Re: Decent soldering tools...?
Post by: bobbyb13 on May 14, 2021, 10:50:38 pm: Quote from: Gilrock on March 29, 2021, 02:18:42 pm
I bought this for desoldering and its worked great. I've recapped a CRT and replaced connectors on a Falcon lighting controller that needed a ton of heat for the 30amp pads.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07542D82F/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07542D82F/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

For soldering I like this simple digital Weller iron:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ARU9PO/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ARU9PO/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

Thanks everybody (once again!) for all the replies. Sorry it has been a bit for me to chime in again.

I actually bought that very same soldering station a few weeks ago Gilrock. Impulse buy when I was at the only real electronics place in "Town" (read Honolulu...) trying to find stuff locally. Seems to work fine but I have NO idea what temps I should have the thing set for to start with in any given situation. Any suggestions from those experienced are welcome!

I really need to get one of those octopus looking clamp units. I may get away with these cool bifocals my sister got me but a magnifying glass may be in my near future too.

A lot of fun soldering projects in my near future I hope.