The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Software Support => GroovyMAME => Topic started by: Vectorfire on February 19, 2020, 01:37:43 pm
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I was a little less than enthralled overall with the color depth, saturation and brightness of the image my monitor was since getting everything up and running.
Cranking up my brightness and raising my contrast to ten made it look, palatable at best. :-\ And it's a brand new monitor!
I just got done installing an Ultimarc Video Amplifier and there are simply no words that can do justice to how much of an improvement there is with this unit inline.
Considering that anyone else here feeding a CRT monitor with a PC video card is sending only a fraction of the 5v their arcade monitor expects, it really should be stickied and made an inseparable part of the process.
It's just insane the difference in video quality and I feel like there may be a lot of people out there who are not getting the full potential of their setup after all their hard work.
My brightness is now at 3 and my contrast is at 5!
I have tried to capture some video to do it justice with my crappy phone, but my camera does a terrible job of capturing it with the refresh rates out of sync.
I guarantee you it will be the best 23$ you ever spent and an absolute must for anyone going this route. :cheers:
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I have one of those video amps. They're very useful.
My tri-sync CRTs have a .75ohm / 1K switch to go between arcade ttl for CGA or EGA PCBs and consumer .7v rgb but I still use the amp for my PS2 rgb cable (also from Ultimarc). Their Playstation tri-sync cables over-do it a little with the resistors. I have no issue with VGA from my PC gpu but the PS2 needed to be maxed out on brightness without the Amp on one of my monitors.
It never feels good to max out the brightness and contrast pots as you know it ain't gonna get any brighter over time.
Out of interest, how were you connecting your PC gpu to the monitor before the amp? I.e, was it direct or via a PC to jamma solution?
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Sapphire Dual-X R 280 Radeon-------->DVI-I out-------->into a DVI-I to VGA adapter-------><Makvision VGA cable (75ohm@1v impedence AND 1kohm@3v Impedance looked dim and lacked saturation. Minimal differnece)
now it's
Sapphire Dual-X R 280 Radeon-------->DVI-I out-------->into a DVI-I to VGA adapter------->Ultimarc Video Amplifier-----><Makvision VGA cable (1kOhm@3v Impedance)
My Makvision Trisync CRT arcade monitor has the same switch, it only made a minor difference in quality switching between the two impedance settings. Which is what lead me to do the video amplifier solution.
Surely I am not the only one who is getting less than optimal video quality. The meager, low voltage that these PC video cards provide simply isn't sufficient. This issue really needs to more awareness.
I have a history of arcade hardware collecting, so I had first hand knowledge of what some of these titles should look like. I knew something was wrong the minute I loaded up my old standbys.
I'm trying to figure out how to adjust my shutter speed in the Manual Camera: DSLR Pro app for android so I can do a flicker free video capture of the before and after.
It really needs to be shown.
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It's standard practice to use a video amp with an arcade monitor, if you're connecting from a PC. There are arcade monitors that don't require it, and will work with the 0.7Vp-p from a PC, but most expect between 1.5V to 4V p-p. IT's that variable because there was no set standard for video levels with Jamma.
Ultimarc make great amps, but they are expensive. Something like a THS7374 IC is equally nice, and if you can't work at that fine pitch, a THS7314 or 7316 is almost as nice.
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I'm interested in seeing a side by side comparison. I have a tri-sync being fed by an r9 380x and my contrast is set to 70. It still doesn't seem to have any depth to the color, if that makes sense.
As for the camera settings on android, if you open the stock camera app and swipe the screen to the left you can open the "pro" settings. You can adjust the shutter speed to 1/60 and adjust ISO if need be. That should eliminate most, if not all flicker.
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I own a a Sega Blast City and connect the video card through the VGA connector in the cabinet.
Is there such a thing for this kind of connector? Does it make sense on a Blast City?
I'd like to see a video or screenshots comparison as well, sounds interesting!
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I own a a Sega Blast City and connect the video card through the VGA connector in the cabinet.
Is there such a thing for this kind of connector? Does it make sense on a Blast City?
I'd like to see a video or screenshots comparison as well, sounds interesting!
The application is the same. I have a VGA connection on my monitor as well. Its the same difference, you have to make a breakout cable.
img tags dont seem to work here.
wind the h-sync and v-sync together from the monitor and place that into the sync on the amplifier.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1C9iMuB-htHfQhFUJMPjOglNAeYdX6Mq8
Before
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1fGiyIdzzuitXFXGMDMXVN29pn2WsS7Bv
After
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1dGYitx2wErSwjowB7k5aRzVapMOrX2cg
This amplifier is evidently very ESD sensitive. I shorted the sync circuit out on mine handling it to take pictures of it. All I get onscreen is a rolling split image now. Definitely wear an Anti-static wristband if you get one, learn from my mistake. :cry:
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Thanks for the detailed explanation! I will give it a try :)
Other than the ultimarc amplifier itself, just for curiosity where did you get the breakout part connected to the VGA cable from? I do not know how to look for it on ebay etc :) any links would be awesome :)
EDIT: for a Blast City would it work if I bought these two items together? or would I need something else?
https://www.ultimarc.com/arcade-vga-and-video/arcadevga-accessories/vga-breakout-cable/
https://www.ultimarc.com/arcade-vga-and-video/arcadevga-accessories/arcade-monitor-video-amplifier/
Thanks again :)
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Thanks for the detailed post! I'll order one today and wire it to a breakout board. It will be nice to back off on the contrast and get a better balance with brightness. Thanks again.
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Thanks for the detailed explanation! I will give it a try :)
Other than the ultimarc amplifier itself, just for curiosity where did you get the breakout part connected to the VGA cable from? I do not know how to look for it on ebay etc :) any links would be awesome :)
EDIT: for a Blast City would it work if I bought these two items together? or would I need something else?
https://www.ultimarc.com/arcade-vga-and-video/arcadevga-accessories/vga-breakout-cable/
https://www.ultimarc.com/arcade-vga-and-video/arcadevga-accessories/arcade-monitor-video-amplifier/
Thanks again :)
Mine came with my monitor when I bought it.
Search VGA BREAKOUT BOARD
or VGA PINOUT BOARD
on google.
I found this on amazon, you can find one even cheaper I'm sure.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016FBVIJY?tag=duckduckgo-ffnt-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016FBVIJY?tag=duckduckgo-ffnt-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1)
The amp comes with its own vga extension cable.
And don't forget an ESD wristband ;)
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My amp arrived while I was on vacation. I wired it up last night and the colors were extremely bright, but I couldn't get it to sync. Messed around with it this morning and split sync to H and V out and sync finally locked.
I was setting contrast to between 70 and 100 depending on the system. Now im between 20 and 30.
It also has the side benefit of clearing up the yellow tint I was getting on startup, which strangely would come and go with a tap on the screen. Thanks again for the suggestion!
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Mine arrived today, but somehow can't get it to synch.
Display looks brighter than usual though from what I can see
I follow the attached pinout:
1- Red > Ultimarc Red
2- Green > Ultimarc Green
3- Blue > Ultimarc Blue
13+14 (Hsync+Vsync) > Ultimarc SYNC
15 GND (Masa) > Ultimarc GND
And the setup is like this:
PC VGA > DVI to VGA adapter > white VGA cable > Ultimarc Amplifier > Breakout VGA > black VGA cable > jpac > Blast City
Any hints what I might be missing?
Should I separate the synchs as stated in the ultimarc site? Monitor is a Nanao MS2930
EDIT: i tried to cut off the wire to separate H and V sync as described in the ultimarc site and wire separately but didnt make any difference.
Thanks a lot!
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Firstly, we'd all be obliged if you could remove that VGA pinout diagram from your post - it's not just misleading it could cause damage. Try this one instead - https://cdn.dfcovers.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/VGA-Pinout-1.jpg
Well, there's a bit of information missing from your post, and the photos and info aren't perfectly clear. I think the solution is going to be some combination of the points below. This all assumes the monitor is known-working to begin with, of course, but:
- Do you need the video amp? I would have thought any VGA DSUB input would take VGA levels just fine. Try both with and without.
- Is the dip switch on the remote board of the MS2930 set for DSUB input? See the pictures in this post on ArcadeOtaku - https://forum.arcadeotaku.com/viewtopic.php?t=35253#p469799. I think the rightmost switch in the photos is the one for DSUB input.
- Also related to the dipswtiches - this monitor does not autosync, i believe. You have to set the frequency ranges to match the video modes your PC is outputting. So, what is your PC outputting? You have crt_emudriver installed and you've setup your modelines in VVM so you're running at 15kHz? Or something else?
- That VGA pinout diagram you found is crazy, get rid of it. Whatever it applied to is long gone. So, what VGA breakout pin have you wired ground up to in your wiring pic? I think i can see sync going to pins 13 and 14, then the ground wire going to 15? Which would not be right. Shield is ground, and is not pin 11, 12 or 15. Ground is VGA pins 5, 6,7,8 or 10. (VGA PIN 9 is +5V, never wire it up by mistake!) I'm assuming the MS2930 DSUB/VGA input uses a standard VGA pinout and all the ground lines are connected together inside the monitor. Otherwise you'll have to determine which pin ground is on the DSUB input of the monitor.
- I have no idea if the MS2930 will take composite sync (i.e, just "Sync" as it comes out of the amp from the factory) through the DSUB input, but if so you would leave the trace on the amp uncut, and wire a single wire from the sync terminal to pin 13 of the VGA breakout. IF this works for 15kHz it might not for 31kHz, but i find that unlikely
- If the MS2930 will only take separate H- and V- sync through the DSUB port, you need to cut the trace on the amp, and then wire as per the instructions from Ultimarc's website:
- Identify the location on the PCB marked "CUT for H/V"
- Cut through the short section of track between the two "half-moon" shapes.
- Connect the monitor vertical sync (VGA pin 14) to the connection (white terminal block) marked SYNC
- Connect the monitor horizontal sync (VGA pin 13) to the connection (white terminal block) which is unmarked.
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Thanks for the fast and accurate reply!
I'll clarify some points as much as I know:
1. Crt emudriver is installed and has always been working fine at 15khz.
2. I have an HD7750 firmwared to output 15khz.
3. dipswitches and set up wise, everything works perfectly without the amplifier (even after all testing yesterday, which is good :)
4. According to the new vga pinout (thanks!), I wired ground pin 5 to GND in the amplifier. Nothing changed but now at least I'm sure its the correct pin :) - I removed the VGA diagram in the post too.
5. as I already had cut the trace on the amplifier yesterday as I thought this might be the issue, I guess I have no way to undo it and try again with composite sync...for now its separated wiring H and V. Not sure maybe I need to solder the parts again with a wire - I am really new on that, or order another amp and retry.
Now I hesitate if its worth as like you said if the VGA DSUB already takes the VGA levels fine, maybe i wouldn't see any difference at all. I didnt think of that before, but maybe with the VGA itself and the JPAC there is no further need of amplifier?
Anyhow, I also emailed Andy to see if that's the case, probably he also knows if indeed I could gain some image improvement or not :)
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the jpac already have built in amplifier? You shouldn't need to add another.
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Well this seems to be the case. I completely forgot about it :)
https://www.ultimarc.com/control-interfaces/j-pac-en/j-pac-jamma-interface/
>On-board video amplifier boosts signal to standard arcade monitor levels. Uses high-bandwidth video amplifier chip.
Also Andy confirmed it wont work with both at all. Either J-PAC video section or connecting direct to the cab if it has a VGA plug.
So I guess I can live without the new amplifier :) - I'll keep it for my next cab :)
Thanks all!
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---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, i totally missed the fact he was using a Jpac too :)
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Sorry for asking, but I'm a total noob: I own a HD7970 gpu & a WG D9400 Tri-sync monitor.
Would you guys recommend me to buy a video amp ? Does it make any difference ? Thanks in advance :cheers:
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I have a wg d9400 and recently installed the amp. It looks fantastic when using low resolutions (240p ish). The problem I'm having is with higher resolutions. I have some games that run at 800x600 and there is significant ghosting or ringing around moving objects and areas of high contrast. My front end is set to 800x600, which makes the text very crisp, but using the amp causes unwanted affects. I guess the answer is yes, the amp is worth it if all you plan to use is low resolutions only. It's perfect for a dedicated cabinet. I plan to build a vertical cab in the future with a standard res monitor, so I'll save the amp for that.
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P.S. please sell me your d9400. :D
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Hey, thanks for the info!
P.S. please sell me your d9400. :D
But... you already have a D9400 ? ;D
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I think everyone knows. One is never enough.
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Yeah, it's true :laugh2:
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Regarding using a J-PAC, i got one mainly to remove any nasty signals getting to my new 15Khz monitor it having the integrated amplifier is a nice bonus!
For my setup i current only have the R,G,B, Sync and ground wires from my monitor connected to a Jamma edge connector that i will be inserting into the J-PAC and then to my PC....
(https://i.imgur.com/GqAeWw5.jpg)
As i dont have a fully wired Jamma edge connector connected to the J-PAC will the video amplifier side of it NOT work as its not getting a 5v source from the Jamma edge connector itself as its only wired for video from the monitor???