Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: egomaniacal1 on February 12, 2004, 01:56:26 pm
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Hello all :)
I'm new to this board and quite happy to be here. I'm very interested in trying to build a cabinet and went to Lowe's the other day to look around and price tools/material i will need. Well i get to the MDF($18.75 for a 49"x97" sheet) and it looks good but it was much heavier than i thought it would be!!
Anyway it got me to thinking about using another type of light wood for this project. So the question is what is a light(but solid wood) wood that could be used for building my cab.? I was thinking Poplar maybe but not sure that would hold up. Suggestions please.
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Well, I think most people say use MDF because of the weight. Also it is easier to paint if you go that way with it.
You will need three sheets, that is 50 dollars. Some people have used Plywood though. If you are going to cover it with something instead of painting I do not see a problem with it.
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Balsa wood with a thin steel exterior? ;)
APf
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Play-Doh
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Play-Doh
You beat me to it.
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Tin foil, gummy bears and glitter.
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LOL
Ok....thanks for all the replies guys....i'm still leaning toward the Poplar but the Balsa with sheet metal sounds good too. I only want to get away from the MDF's weight becuz i'm thinking ahead to having to move the thing!! And my design for the cab(actually a half cab....bottom part kinda like the console of the 6-player X-men arcade) as i have it thought up now is going to be massive.
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Being that I'm no carpenter by any means, but feel comfortable doing metal work, I seriously considered building a cab entirely out of sheet metal with a tubing frame. After I realised that I'd need a forklift to move it, I changed my mind and just bought an old cab and converted it.
-S
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Butter. No, wait: goldfish. Not the cracker kind, real goldfish. No wait...Coke cans.
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i built my cab with a sheet and half of 3/4" mdf and one sheet of 1/2" mdf. plus misc parts and 100lbs tv.
it has 4 swivel 3" or 4" casters (can't remember) so it weight like 300-350 lbs and i can move it rather easily. i prefer mdf. i dont trust ply wood for slotcutting the t-molding.
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What ever happened to using good old 3/4 plywood. :oIt is lighter and doesn't swell up and turn to wood chip mush when in contact with water. You can get the ply wood with the finished sides so it is smooth and straight. That what I am using for my cab.
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I'm suprised no one has mentioned cardboard boxes and duct-tape. C'mon just look how beautiful the TrashCade is!!!!!
-PMF
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I have built two out of particle board. It is cheaper and a bit lighter than mdf. Home dept calls it "woodstalk." I have also seen it labeled as carpet underlayment in other stores.
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Butter. No, wait: goldfish. Not the cracker kind, real goldfish. No wait...Coke cans.
You're giving me all kinds of bad ideas about filling Dr. Pepper cans with some sort of a structural foam or something to make a cab or an end table or something. Well that was a run on sentence...
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I actually did the carboard thing.
I started my cab by building what basically amounted to a rolling table with a 2x4 frame. Once I had that part done, I covered it in cardboard so that I could get everything the way I wanted it before committing to wood.
Once I had the dimensions/shape right, I converted everything over to 3/4" plywood.
I live in Washington State, and was actually more concerned about the possibility of the cabinet getting WET in a move, than the weight.
I'm also not a big fan of WORKING with MDF.
It just kind of disappears when you work it, and turns to that obnoxious dust.
I'm guessing, based on the framing job I did on this, that I could probably slide mine down a few flights of stairs without hurting anything but the paint job.
I've got 2" casters on the bottom, so it moves really nice when I need to.
As a side note to this, I tend to overbuild everything.
My brother-in-law and I built a "baby" bed for his daughter one time.
It was sized to hold the crib mattress after she got old enough not to need the crib.
We built the entire bed out of bolted together 4x4's and put a piece of 3/4" plywood in for a bottom.
After both of us jumping up and down on it repeatedly, we decided it MIGHT be strong enough for my niece. ;D
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Popsicle sticks, rubberbands, and duct tape!!! With that you can build/fix anything!!!! ;D
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LOL
Ok....thanks for all the replies guys....i'm still leaning toward the Poplar but the Balsa with sheet metal sounds good too. I only want to get away from the MDF's weight becuz i'm thinking ahead to having to move the thing!! And my design for the cab(actually a half cab....bottom part kinda like the console of the 6-player X-men arcade) as i have it thought up now is going to be massive.
Let me save you some time and just tell you to stop looking at Poplar. If you were at Lowes pricing tools, you don't have the tools needed to build a cab from solid Poplar. At a minimum, you would need a joiner and planer, about six 4 foot bar clamps, and some experience doing a glue up (a six foot board is not easy). I give you credit for picking the right wood though, Poplar is the right choice for a solid wood that you are going to paint. It's just not practical unless can glue up panels in your sleep.
As for the weight problem, I totally agree. I laugh because I made three trips to the big orange box (HD) to pick up 3/4" MDF. Each time, I went home without it because I couldn't beleive how heavy it was. After a couple weeks, I would think "everyone else uses it, I'll just tough it out and get it home." I'd go back to HD and start the cycle over.
After working on my upright cab for a while now, I can pass on something I learned. I would have HD strip down all of the wood to my width + 1". I decided to bring home the 4x8 sheets because I don't trust the store to cut it right. It is very difficult to handle a 4x8 sheet of 3/4" anything. Even if making the sloppy cuts causes you to buy an extra sheet of wood, DO IT.
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I've also been thinking about doing an entire cabinet out of Legos.
I always thought that would look really great, especially If you could work the sideart into the Legos themselves.
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I wouldn't even think about building a cabinet out of anything other than plywood. Go to an old warehouse and pull out 2 game from 1981, one made from plywood, one made from something else, and compare the difference in condition.
Oh, and for the guy talking about a metal cabinet. I am pretty sure Bally made some metal Sac-1 cabinets. It wouldn't be that bad weightwise if it didn't have a frame.
Other unique cab materials include.
Plastic (Williams Duramold, some import cabs).
Fiberglass (Computer Space, some 70s Shark game, perhaps others)
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I've also been thinking about doing an entire cabinet out of Legos.
I always thought that would look really great, especially If you could work the sideart into the Legos themselves.
Why didn't anyone say that while there was still a lego store in the mall? (you could buy legos by the liter as opposed to buying a bunch of buckets and ending up with a million spare parts in the end)
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I've also been thinking about doing an entire cabinet out of Legos.
I always thought that would look really great, especially If you could work the sideart into the Legos themselves.
Why didn't anyone say that while there was still a lego store in the mall? (you could buy legos by the liter as opposed to buying a bunch of buckets and ending up with a million spare parts in the end)
You might want to contact Eric Harsbarger, he creates large scale Lego sculptures, like this working grandfather clock: http://www.ericharshbarger.org/lego/clock.html (http://www.ericharshbarger.org/lego/clock.html)
http://www.ericharshbarger.org/lego/portfolio.html (http://www.ericharshbarger.org/lego/portfolio.html)
(I'm not just a MAME fan, I collect Lego too ;) )
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I was going to say legos... was a little suprised it didn't come until 1/2 way down the thread...
but I dont' think Legos would do it..
You would need an erector set to handle the extra weight of the monitor.
It WOULD be ideal for hotswap control panels... As long as you didn't pull off too much...
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Oh, I almost forgot, Midway made a few demo Ms. Pac-Man machines out of plexiglass back in 1981.
That would be AWESOME, but you would have to be as good as oscar at wiring (not picking on oscar, just remember seeing a picture of a control panel he wired, and it looked cleaner than most dedicated games).
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LOL
Ok....thanks for all the replies guys....i'm still leaning toward the Poplar but the Balsa with sheet metal sounds good too. I only want to get away from the MDF's weight becuz i'm thinking ahead to having to move the thing!! And my design for the cab(actually a half cab....bottom part kinda like the console of the 6-player X-men arcade) as i have it thought up now is going to be massive.
If you're just building a large console/pedestal Control panel, why not look at a cheap desk from Wal-Mart or the like. You can modify the construction slightly, but you get a lot of free hardware in those kits for a really cheap price.
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A lego cab would be nothing but cool! I can't imagine how much that many legos would cost, but man it would be cool!
-S
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I dont' think Legos would do it..
You would need an erector set to handle the extra weight of the monitor.
It WOULD be ideal for hotswap control panels... As long as you didn't pull off too much...
As far as monitor weight, I was thinking more of a shell of Legos over a subframe, so that wouldn't be a problem.
And I am SERIOUSLY thinking of using them for the modular system I'm working on.
I just haven't come up with exactly the right way to incorporate them yet.
I've toyed with the idea of using epoxy to hold them together, or using them over a wood or sheet metal base, etc...
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I'm using 1/2" plywood and 1 x 2s for framing. That's smaller wood than most use, but I've only got a 19" monitor to go in it and I had to keep the weight to a minimum. (I'm military and I move a lot.) The cabinet is probably 1/2 complete (structurally) and it seems easily sturdy enough to survive the moves. As I add the monitor and CPU shelf, it'll get even firmer.
As for the finish, I bough the type that is sanded fairly well on one side and rough on the other. A little wood filler over the screws and a couple of passes with the random orbital sander and the outside is nice and smooth.
Plywood will suck the paint in, so use a good sealer. One trick is to have the sealer tinted to the right color to get things started off right (assuming the cabinet is mostly one color). Of course, I have yet to get to that step.....
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OK...first things first. Someone REALLY needs to sticky the msg that talks about problems related to login!! i've been locked out for 2 days before i found(or stumbled upon) that msg!!!!
Now i wanna say the ideal for the Lego cab.....pure genius. It would definitely be awesome!! Although i personally don't have the patience it would take to assemble that many legos its still a great ideal. I think i have decided to go with.....drumroll please....Plexiglass!!!
I have envisioned a very lightweight cab with use of plexi and also a very modular design as well. Now all i need are pointers as to how i should approach working with plexiglass as i've never worked with it before. Can i cut and drill on it as i would do with wood? Do i need special sawblades or bits?
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I'm using 1/2" plywood and 1 x 2s for framing. That's smaller wood than most use, but I've only got a 19" monitor to go in it and I had to keep the weight to a minimum. (I'm military and I move a lot.) The cabinet is probably 1/2 complete (structurally) and it seems easily sturdy enough to survive the moves. As I add the monitor and CPU shelf, it'll get even firmer.
As for the finish, I bough the type that is sanded fairly well on one side and rough on the other. A little wood filler over the screws and a couple of passes with the random orbital sander and the outside is nice and smooth.
Plywood will suck the paint in, so use a good sealer. One trick is to have the sealer tinted to the right color to get things started off right (assuming the cabinet is mostly one color). Of course, I have yet to get to that step.....
One downside of 1/2" is the T-Molding, another is that the cab might look flimsy. I don't think the weight is an issue. I think you could use 1/4" wood for the side panels, as long as there was a 1/2 frame to keep the cab from swaying side to side.
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I didn't try to use T-molding on the 1/2" (although it is available). I used oak veneer to hid the edges. I was a little concerned that the 1/2" would look cheap also, but it looks pretty good. I think a lot depends on the style of the cabinet.
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My idea was to use 1/4 inch plywood for the sides, but use 3/4 board on the outside edge, similar to cabinet construction. The plywood would be set back 1/2 inch so it would look like you intentionally did that. Much lighter than MDF, in large part because the sides don't have the mass.
The 3/4 board means you can still use t-molding, and you have something a little easier to work with where you do your joints. And if you plan ahead you can do the hard work on small easy to manover pieces of wood instead of big awkward MDF panels.
IF you just might try to get this into the livingroom (as opposed to the basement) look closer at your cabinets, if the cabinet matches your decor you have a better shot. Oak plywood is common, and you can get 3/4 board in just about anything.
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How about carbon fiber on a custom aluminum frame?
that should be light and strong.
Your local aircraft manuafacturer can point you in the right direction :)
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Oh MAN, you guys forgot the obvious....BUBBLE GUM WRAPPERS heheeh
groovy~
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How about a dedicated Pengo made from ice?
Not very light, but it'll keep the beer cold.
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How about carbon fiber on a custom aluminum frame?
that should be light and strong.
Your local aircraft manuafacturer can point you in the right direction :)
Someone around here did do a quasi showcase cabinet built out of fiberglass (forgive me if is was subtely different materials...it looked like fiberglass to me)
oooh.. here's a link to valence's thead (http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=6122;start=msg73301#msg73301)
*Shrug*
Rampy
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Hello all :)
I'm new to this board and quite happy to be here. I'm very interested in trying to build a cabinet and went to Lowe's the other day to look around and price tools/material i will need. Well i get to the MDF($18.75 for a 49"x97" sheet) and it looks good but it was much heavier than i thought it would be!!
Anyway it got me to thinking about using another type of light wood for this project. So the question is what is a light(but solid wood) wood that could be used for building my cab.? I was thinking Poplar maybe but not sure that would hold up. Suggestions please.
good old plywood... it's the best choice for the job, but it'll cost ya if you want it smooth... it's lighter, sturdier and more water resistant than mdf.
btw balsa wood is used for props, you can't even skin with it
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OK...first things first. Someone REALLY needs to sticky the msg that talks about problems related to login!! i've been locked out for 2 days before i found(or stumbled upon) that msg!!!!
It is stickied. Right in the 'Board Discussion' forum.
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3/4" MDO is really great stuff. It is plywood with a smooth veneer on both sides. Just as smooth (smoother?) as MDF and because it is plywood it is stronger. It'll cost you about $50 per sheet though :-\.
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On the Pengo in Ice idea...
how about something more realistic.
Pengo dedicated (maybe snowbros too) in those glass blocks that people use in showers and old 70's apartments!
Would look REALLY cool!
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Peale: I never go to the Board Discussion Forum so what good does it do to have a sticky that regards logging in to ALL Forums if that sticky is just located in one Forum?!?!
Lilwolf: I don't know how heavy that ideal for a Pengo machine would weight(i'm thinking very VERY heavy) but its definitely a cool ideal.
Rampy: Thanks for the link to Valence's cabinet project!!! That looks kinda like what i'm meaning to build...just a bottom half of a cabinet. The base to his is kinda small tho...i wonder what happened to Valence. Looks like he might have just stopped working on that thing altogether.
Nannuu: Never heard of MDO but if its lighter than MDF than i might look into getting some. I said i was going to go with an all plexi machine but thats still up in the air seeing as how i've never worked with plexi before.
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I think i have decided to go with.....drumroll please....Plexiglass!!!
Sorry but nothing new...
(http://www.arcadecontrols.com/images/clearpac.jpg)
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MDF is heavy and not very strong. It is easy to machine and has a smooth finish its also probably the cheapest of the sheet goods.
Plywood is much lighter and much stronger. It goes from being slightly more to being a whole lot more expensive depending on the quality that you want.
If your concerned about weight considering building a 2 peice.
I recently did this 2 peice in oak plywood, it has wheels under the bottom at the back so it can still be moved around when assembled-
(http://hower.us/misc/oak_cab9.jpg)
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Eightbit: Nice lookin cab man!! If i can find some of that around here i just might consider using it. Did it have that oak look to it when you bought it?
Jakobud: I never said the plex cab would be original but in all honesty that ms. pac-man cab. looks terrible. I can most definitely can improve on that. But thanks for the pic....cuz that thing looks like it is made from 3/4 plexi and i didn't know it came that thick. I'll have to see if i can find some of that.
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MDF is heavy and not very strong. It is easy to machine and has a smooth finish its also probably the cheapest of the sheet goods.
Plywood is much lighter and much stronger. It goes from being slightly more to being a whole lot more expensive depending on the quality that you want.
If your concerned about weight considering building a 2 peice.
I recently did this 2 peice in oak plywood, it has wheels under the bottom at the back so it can still be moved around when assembled-
(http://hower.us/misc/oak_cab9.jpg)
I'll have to disagree with you eightbit, i think MDF is more then strong enough to handle the demands of any cab out there. If it really sucked that bad, i doubt they would even bother selling the stuff. Truthfully , i have made shelves, bookstands, tables and generic coffetables that people put their feet on DAILY out of mdf and it has stood up remarkably well. So, in my oppinion, MDF is a very reasonable choice to make a cab from. Its all in how you would build the frame that would make all the difference. Just my oppinion :)
groovy~
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Schedule 40 1" PCV covered in chicken wire and sprayed with expanding foam. Sand, file, prime, paint and you'd never know. Whole cab would weigh maybe 15lbs without the monitor. You could always take the guts out and use it as a box kite in the spring. :laugh2:
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I'm suprised no one has mentioned cardboard boxes and duct-tape. C'mon just look how beautiful the TrashCade is!!!!!
-PMF
Just duct-tape and nothing else. THAT would be a sight to behold.
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This thread is older than my children...
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Dammit. I've been necro-had. :)
(It came up as new posts, replied based on that...who the hell checks the post dates).
Le Chuck...WTF? How did you even FIND this thread?
And this thread, I now realize, is older then my son AND my damn marriage....
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It is an old thread. For those that built MDF cabs back when this thread started, how are they holding up?
I have some cabs from the early 80's that are plywood. E.g. Joust, Sinistar, and Stargate. They have held up very well. The Joust has more sidearts issues as it seems the plywood separated more but it still looks OK. As far as corner damage, damage around the control panel, etc. they have held up very well.
I was in a hurry when I first did this so made some changes. Earlier I referred to MDF but really in some cases it is particle board. Cabinets I have from the early 80's made of MDF or particle board have missing corners in some cases. Particle board cabinets such as Space Duel often have major breakage around the control panel. Particle board tends to start to disentegrate at the corners, the groove for the t-molding, etc. while the plywood does not. If plywood starts to separate it can be easily glued back. Particle board turns to powder. MDF seems to be somewhere in between.
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Project Arcade 1, made back in 2004, is holding up fine. I don't move it around much though. :dunno
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Let me save you some time and just tell you to stop looking at Poplar. If you were at Lowes pricing tools, you don't have the tools needed to build a cab from solid Poplar. At a minimum, you would need a joiner and planer, about six 4 foot bar clamps, and some experience doing a glue up (a six foot board is not easy). I give you credit for picking the right wood though, Poplar is the right choice for a solid wood that you are going to paint. It's just not practical unless can glue up panels in your sleep.
Most diy sheds over here sell pre laminated sheets of poplar...
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ZOMBIE THREAD!!!
BRRAAAAIIINNNSSSS!!!!
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Being that I'm no carpenter by any means, but feel comfortable doing metal work, I seriously considered building a cab entirely out of sheet metal with a tubing frame. After I realised that I'd need a forklift to move it, I changed my mind and just bought an old cab and converted it.
-S
Sheet metal with ABS/PVC frame, yo.
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http://www.gizmowatch.com/entry/the-lego-pac-man-arcade-machine-is-really-exciting/ (http://www.gizmowatch.com/entry/the-lego-pac-man-arcade-machine-is-really-exciting/)
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I do apologize for the necro :dunno. I didn't even notice the date until that little warning came up... but who reads those things anyway. I do now. As for holding up, I had a stargate refurb that I reglued and stapled in 2004 that help up great until I moved to Germany in 2008 and the movers didn't crate it right. It was in pieces. Aparantly those things don't like being dropped.
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I'm not much of a carpenter, but I built my cab. out of Pine Boards. Not a particularly good choice, though. It turned out looking pretty good, but took entirely to much sanding and we'll see if it paints up well...
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I went with 5/8” MDF.
Pros:
- Reasonable price
- Fairly easy to cut
- Nice smooth surface for painting
Cons:
- Heavy as all living ---fudgesicle---
- Dust EVERYWHERE IN MY GARAGE (and presumably, my lungs) after cabinet project
- Screws pull out of it too easily
- Susceptibility to water damage
I nearly killed myself trying to get 4x8 sheets up onto the sawhorses by myself. It took 4 guys to get my damn cabinet from my garage to my basement. On the flip-side, the large mass is a good thing when you have two full grown men playing an intense round of co-op DoDonPachi because it keeps the cabinet stable.
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Butter. No, wait: goldfish. Not the cracker kind, real goldfish. No wait...Coke cans.
I prototyped a fortress wall in my office a while back based on pop cans. My research showed that when the cans are interlinked and stacked closely, they do a venerable job at providing a physical/visual barrier. However, they do not provide sufficient protection from rubber band attacks. I suspect that performance could be improved with the addition of a fastening mechanism between adjoining cans, but that was out of the scope of my research. I suspect that this building material may be prone to failure given the stresses imposed during an intense SF session.
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I went with 5/8” MDF.
MDF is a very good choice for cabinets and panels, for all of the reasons you note. 5/8" is good to keep weight down, but may not be as easy to find as 3/4".
Some tips I have found while using the stuff:
ALWAYS wear a dust mask. The dust generated is very fine and it's very bad for you.
Cover anything in the room you don't want to get coated with dust. It goes everywhere.
Seal all of the surfaces and edges with at least two coats of a quality sealer, such as Kilz primer, and sand between coats. This is especially important if it's going someplace where it will be damp.
Never screw directly into the edges of the stuff. If you must make an edge connection, consider using the special cabinet hardware one usually sees supplied with ready-to-assemble furniture. Even with special hardware, you never want to make an edge connection on any panel which needs to bear any significant load. MDF is very weak in that direction, and will split easily. Always better to use a framework, or blocks, and screw directly in the face of the panels.
Consider using edge or corner protectors on any panel likely to get banged around, particularly the bottom. Little is more heartbreaking than having a corner break off (and it will) when you accidentally bang your freshly built project on something while moving it into it's final resting place.
RandyT
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Consider using edge or corner protectors on any panel likely to get banged around, particularly the bottom. Little is more heartbreaking than having a corner break off (and it will) when you accidentally bang your freshly built project on something while moving it into it's final resting place.
That right there is enough of a reason for me to use plywood. And the dust...the dust is so bad. It gets everywhere, and then it gets tracked everywhere. You can brush plywood sawdust off your shirt. MDF dust leaves a brown streak since it's so fine. I'm sure i'll move a tool in 10 years and still find some MDF dust.
+10,000 for Plywood
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That right there is enough of a reason for me to use plywood. And the dust...the dust is so bad. It gets everywhere, and then it gets tracked everywhere. You can brush plywood sawdust off your shirt. MDF dust leaves a brown streak since it's so fine. I'm sure i'll move a tool in 10 years and still find some MDF dust.
+10,000 for Plywood
Everything is a tradeoff. Plywood is lighter, but harder to get a nice finish on. MDO plywood is the best material you can use, but very pricey. The face of that can also still chip, but not as badly. MDF will have a nicer edge, if cut well, and looks good after sanding and painting, even without molding. The best material will really depend on the application, budget and build methods. MDF can cover most of what folks will come up with there, as long as the project takes the material into consideration.
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Unless I had a dedicated wood shop, I wouldn't cut/etc any kind of wood inside. Of course, if I had a dedicated shop, I would also have an exhaust fan - something pretty easy to do if you're dedicated enough to have a shop.
I vote MDF, but I think half-inch is fine, especially if you're using an LCD. I know....weight....I don't monkey-wrench on my panels that I would need that kind of weight. If placed on a hard floor, I would use rubber, locking (or blocked) wheels.
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3/4" Birch Plywood was used to build the ARTIFACT GAME MUSEUM cab.
It's super sturdy and survived a recent move across the USA :)