Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: obizues on May 17, 2018, 06:46:02 pm
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This is my current layout:
(https://i.imgur.com/IbUk7nV.png)
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You should be happy I'm trying to get rid of buttons! Which admin would I need because "Pause" and "Exit" - and how many buttons do most 4-way games use? am I okay with 2? Do I need more?
:hissy:
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READ PROJECT THREADS
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READ PROJECT THREADS
I’VE BEEN SEARCHING AND READING THEM BUT I HAVEN’T COME UP WITH A SOLUTION FOR HOW MANY BUTTONS ARE NEEDED FOR 4-WAY GAMES.
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Mike A already told you. 0.
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Word of advice, just buy your parts and start putting it together. That’s the best way to learn how to do any of this stuff. Yeah, you might have leftover parts but that’s OK.
You can do all the reading you want, but until you start physically building a cab, it’s all just clouds in the sky anyway.
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READ PROJECT THREADS
I’VE BEEN SEARCHING AND READING THEM BUT I HAVEN’T COME UP WITH A SOLUTION FOR HOW MANY BUTTONS ARE NEEDED FOR 4-WAY GAMES.
No more than two for any of the good ones.
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Mike A already told you. 0.
Mike tells me I can play games on an etch-a-sketch.
Do you not know the answer? I know there even was a 4-way game with 4 buttons. But I don’t know if that is the exception.. I think it would. I can think of a bunch of one-button, and some 2-button.. but my memory on these is limited and I can’t seem to find any lists.
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No more than two for any of the good ones.
Awesome! Thanks!
Is there any need for more than a “pause” and “exit” button for admin controls?
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No more than two for any of the good ones.
Awesome! Thanks!
Is there any need for more than a “pause” and “exit” button for admin controls?
You’re asking the wrong person. I am Mr. “No admin buttons are needed, period.”
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(PROTIP: Read the whole FAQ. It's there to help you.)
Scott
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Do people actually pause arcade games?
I usually only have a Exit button.
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2 Buttons.
"Exit" and "Credit" (one is enaugh even for 4 players for most games).
In theory you won't need any. But that's not idiot proof. I have a machine with 0 buttons in our pinball club.
There is a big sign explaining how to add credits and exit a game. But nobody ever is reading that.
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0 admin buttons, and 0 buttons dedicated to a 4-way stick (no dedicated 4-way stick, imo).
Use the shift function that all decent keyboard encoders come with to do all the admin. By default the ultimarc stuff will let you pause, exit, adjust volume, add credits... all without admin buttons.
Use sticks that have a switchable 8/4 way gate.. a lot of 4-way games play fine in 8 way mode, but some are bad with diagonals. I put trackball in the same category as spinner, guns, yoke, tron stick etc.. Not something I'd sacrifice the a tidy panel to accommodate to be honest. If others are using my cabs, then they can ask me how to change game and I'll do it for them. You can always have the start buttons also = credit buttons, if you don't want to explain how to add credits and you have no coin mech.
I've got a 4 stick panel on my sega cab, and it's busy and cramped enough with 16 buttons:
(https://s19.postimg.cc/rksekb7df/IMG_1417.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
tip you may have heard before - Don't mount your sticks at an angle, keep Up pointing due North on all sticks.
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Use the shift function that all decent keyboard encoders come with to do all the admin.
In real live the shift function is only good for single player games.
Shift is on "left start" on the ipac.
So you have died in a multi player game, pressing "Start" while the other players are still mashing some buttons, sometimes ending up in the Mame menu.
I have reprogrammed my jpacs to remove all shift-functions.
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Use the shift function that all decent keyboard encoders come with to do all the admin.
In real live the shift function is only good for single player games.
Shift is on "left start" on the ipac.
So you have died in a multi player game, pressing "Start" while the other players are still mashing some buttons, sometimes ending up in the Mame menu.
I have reprogrammed my jpacs to remove all shift-functions.
Exit (P1+P2 start) is the only combination that could use changing if you have button mashers that get through credits quick (I've found). Once I mapped it to P1 start + P1 B2, then all the shifted functions are on P1 controls, and it doesn't matter what the other players are mashing. I understand why people would want a dedicated Exit button instead, it's just not for me.
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0 admin buttons, and 0 buttons dedicated to a 4-way stick (no dedicated 4-way stick, imo).
Use the shift function that all decent keyboard encoders come with to do all the admin. By default the ultimarc stuff will let you pause, exit, adjust volume, add credits... all without admin buttons.
Use sticks that have a switchable 8/4 way gate.. a lot of 4-way games play fine in 8 way mode, but some are bad with diagonals. I put trackball in the same category as spinner, guns, yoke, tron stick etc.. Not something I'd sacrifice the a tidy panel to accommodate to be honest. If others are using my cabs, then they can ask me how to change game and I'll do it for them. You can always have the start buttons also = credit buttons, if you don't want to explain how to add credits and you have no coin mech.
I've got a 4 stick panel on my sega cab, and it's busy and cramped enough with 16 buttons:
tip you may have heard before - Don't mount your sticks at an angle, keep Up pointing due North on all sticks.
I love you <3 Also, that Sega panel looks great!
P1 and P2 start to exit can cause issues but I don't think it happens as much as people assume it will. In all the time I've played on MAME cabs with IPACs/shifted keys, its literally only happened to me once.I blame Sengoku 3 for being a credit muncher.Luckily I had saves states enabled! I know anecdotal evidence is not data, but I am just conveying my real world experience. If you MUST have admin buttons, EXIT is the only one I could remotely justify. I can only justify it because kids slam buttons at random. Everything else can be shifted with little to no impact (I disable the shifted shortcut for tab on buttons)
I also agree with Yots, planning everything out is great but when you start to actually build things you get a much better visualization of everything. Make your first flight deck control panel out of cardboard.
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The OP asked a single question which really should have been two distinct questions, and that's leading to a bit of confusion or frustration for the OP. Question 1) Which admin functions should I have? Question 2) What is the best way to map these funtions to my control panel?
I'm doing fine with just a dedicated Exit button and a dedicated Pause button. Both are a little out-of-the-way, and these buttons are the least of my problems when other people use my cab.
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Do people actually pause arcade games?
I usually only have a Exit button.
Only the console kids need to pause...
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I've got a 4 stick panel on my sega cab, and it's busy and cramped enough with 16 buttons:
(https://s19.postimg.cc/rksekb7df/IMG_1417.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
tip you may have heard before - Don't mount your sticks at an angle, keep Up pointing due North on all sticks.
Where can I get one of these?? It looks great! Would be awesome for the nieces.
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If life has a 5-10 minute intrusion coming your way, it doesn't much care whether you're playing an arcade game or a console game.
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OP:
I've got two MAME cabinets. One has admin buttons the other uses shifted-buttons. When we have parties I never have to help folks use the cabinet with admin buttons. With the other cabinet people occasionally get confused or exit a game by accident. Not really a huge deal but something I have noticed. Having said that I'm happy with the layout of both cabinets and certainly wouldn't add admin buttons to the one without because it would clutter up that CP.
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The OP asked a single question which really should have been two distinct questions, and that's leading to a bit of confusion or frustration for the OP. Question 1) Which admin functions should I have? Question 2) What is the best way to map these funtions to my control panel?
I'm doing fine with just a dedicated Exit button and a dedicated Pause button. Both are a little out-of-the-way, and these buttons are the least of my problems when other people use my cab.
:laugh2:
Thanks!
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Only the console kids need to pause...
My 3 month old daughter begs to differ.
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OP:
I've got two MAME cabinets. One has admin buttons the other uses shifted-buttons. When we have parties I never have to help folks use the cabinet with admin buttons. With the other cabinet people occasionally get confused or exit a game by accident. Not really a huge deal but something I have noticed. Having said that I'm happy with the layout of both cabinets and certainly wouldn't add admin buttons to the one without because it would clutter up that CP.
Thanks for the feedback. Your comment of others not knowing how to use it is my main concern. I definitely don’t need more than two though it seems.
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Do people actually pause arcade games?
I usually only have a Exit button.
If you have kids it is a necessity.
I have 4 admin buttons on all of my cabs. P1 Start, P2 Start, Exit and Pause. I wire coin rejects for the coin button.
4 player cabs are a waste of real estate, IMO. There is Simpsons, X-Men, TMNT, etc. which are all the exact same game with different skins and then Gauntlet. All of these games can be played with 2 players and getting 4 people together to play seems like a once a year thing, if that. I don't know - maybe I'm missing out but I can't justify an aircraft carrier runway sticking out of a cabinet and taking up space in the room.
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Start buttons are not admin buttons.
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Start buttons are not admin buttons.
;D I've always called any button that's not an in-game action button an admin button... so I guess I only have 2! And could easily eliminate Pause and go down to 1 but if I was going to do that I'd shift 2 action buttons for Exit and go down to 0.
So Mike was right. 0 admin buttons.
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I’m not chasing world records, so if I need to walk away from the game, so be it. I’ve never understood this compelling need to pause. It’s not like I spent a quarter anyways.
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Well if you’re building for kids and casuals, pause is fine. There are games like Simpsons and Xmen that are just quarter feeders anyway, it’s nice to be able to pause those games since it’s not about score and more about completion.
On the topic of searching for answers, I just did a search for admin buttons in the main forum (go to Advance Search and select specific areas of forum) and a slew of threads show up just like this, with similar answers.
I suggest you use the advance search function and put in the time investment of reading. Not only will you get your answers but you’ll get even more knowledge and tips along with it.
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Not only will you get your answers but you’ll get even more knowledge and tips along with it.
http://youtu.be/pele5vptVgc (http://youtu.be/pele5vptVgc)
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I've got a 4 stick panel on my sega cab, and it's busy and cramped enough with 16 buttons:
(https://s19.postimg.cc/rksekb7df/IMG_1417.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
tip you may have heard before - Don't mount your sticks at an angle, keep Up pointing due North on all sticks.
Where can I get one of these?? It looks great! Would be awesome for the nieces.
It’s a panel from a Sega Swing. There aren’t many generic 3/4 player cabs around so I really wanted one. They do turn up occasionally.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/r5q7r16ab/IMG_0126.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Someone questioned how many games need (allow for) more than 2 players... well there are dozens. Including loads of my favourites like moonwalker, captain commando, undercover cops, Cadillacs and Dinos, Battle Circuit, rampage, alien vs pred, golden axe troda, Sega spiderman. There are loads - not just fighters (although mainly!). I like gaming with all my kids together.
Nothing wrong with going for 4p on a panel, but to a lot of people they are going to be ugly/messy and there’s nothing anyone can do about that. Keeping things minimal will appeal to more people. My panel has been called a surfboard, and I’m not going to argue.
Build what will make you happy and enjoy the games. You’ll have a blast making it. But in my opinion, when it comes to panels less is more. And admin buttons, dedicated 4-ways, spinners, trackballs, yokes... they all take more away from the panels aesthetic than they add to its function / enjoyment.
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I’m not chasing world records, so if I need to walk away from the game, so be it. I’ve never understood this compelling need to pause. It’s not like I spent a quarter anyways.
That makes no sense. If I play, I play to win. And if I have to walk away I won't "win" if I can't pause.
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Sweep the leg Barrymossel.
The world won't end if I have to walk away from my game.
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Whereas if you work for NORAD and you get some really critical wires accidentally hooked up to your pause button, the world *could* end because you decided to add a pause button to your CP, but this seems unlikely. Still, better safe than sorry!
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I’m not chasing world records, so if I need to walk away from the game, so be it. I’ve never understood this compelling need to pause. It’s not like I spent a quarter anyways.
That makes no sense. If I play, I play to win. And if I have to walk away I won't "win" if I can't pause.
yeah, nobody was talking about going for world records except yots, but I'll bet lots of us go for our personal best (why wouldn't he want to address this obviously more common scenario?). I can see the point that if you pause the game, even if you do so because you have an emergency to attend to, you're still getting a break, which wouldn't make you current run really comparable to any of your other runs. On the other hand, you could get knocked out of your groove during the pause, and so if you beat your PB after the pause, it could be despite the pause and not because of it. On the third hand, it's just a video game, and you don't owe anybody any explanations as to whether or not your high sores came from a session in which you paused the game.
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I’m not chasing world records, so if I need to walk away from the game, so be it. I’ve never understood this compelling need to pause. It’s not like I spent a quarter anyways.
That makes no sense. If I play, I play to win. And if I have to walk away I won't "win" if I can't pause.
But playing to win would normally include not cheating in the process -- and a part of winning would mean overcoming fatigue and loss of mental focus -- Pausing the game so that you can rest or refresh your mental state will change the overall outcome of the game.
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It’s a panel from a Sega Swing. There aren’t many generic 3/4 player cabs around so I really wanted one. They do turn up occasionally.
Beautiful candy cab! I haven’t seen a Swing before, didn’t know they had Japanese cabinets that support 3/4 players. Great stuff!
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My main cabinet has a bottle opener on it. If I need to pee during 18 holes of golden tee I can push player 2 up and player 2 start. Exiting a game is down on player 1 and player 1 start. Unless you're flailing, these are pretty good options for combinations that don't get pressed. It's rare someone does it by accident.
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I have four bottons with 7 functions:
normal: PAUSE MENU Setup Screen Shot
shifted: RESET SERVICE Fn (shift) QUIT
Menu is MAME tab
Setup is MAME ~
Service is MAME dip switches
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My main cabinet has a bottle opener on it. If I need to pee during 18 holes of golden tee I can push player 2 up and player 2 start. Exiting a game is down on player 1 and player 1 start. Unless you're flailing, these are pretty good options for combinations that don't get pressed. It's rare someone does it by accident.
My only issue with removing admin buttons is when I have guests over or my family/kids that don’t know how to exit and restart a new game. Then I’m stuck answering questions or taping a sign to it.
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The real answer is "as many as you want". But hide them! I hide all of mine, and I use mine quite a bit! I love my admin buttons, but they are in a place no one can touch them. And I don't have to worry about shift functions accidentally getting pushed. Hide them and hide them well. A good suggestion is behind the coin door.
My admin is Tab and pause.
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Do people have pictures of admin buttons “under the cp?
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180520/e07f3b2c471353cec8087c9326e24321.jpg)
Exit to far left, coin and pause to the right. Buttons are countersunk so no accidental presses.
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My main cabinet has a bottle opener on it. If I need to pee during 18 holes of golden tee I can push player 2 up and player 2 start. Exiting a game is down on player 1 and player 1 start. Unless you're flailing, these are pretty good options for combinations that don't get pressed. It's rare someone does it by accident.
My only issue with removing admin buttons is when I have guests over or my family/kids that don’t know how to exit and restart a new game. Then I’m stuck answering questions or taping a sign to it.
Since you do not appear to be going for an arcade authentic CP I would suggest you go ahead and put the Exit (and Pause if you want it) buttons on your CP. No need to hide them. That way your guests can easily see them.
You can get a cheap wireless keyboard to use for other "admin" functions.
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Nice. And answered a question I didn’t have about being counter-sunk.
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It sort of depends on how flexible the whole thing needs to be. The more different consoles and applications it is running, the greater need for more admin buttons. I have 2 admin buttons on mine and a separate shift button on the side of the CP. So I guess that makes three. I like having pause. I also use Mouse1 and Mouse2 assigned out of convenience, but most people don't.
I think 2 would look fine and give you some flexibility down the road if you need it.
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If you are the only one playing you cabinet, then go with shift button so then you have zero admin buttons. You are the only one who needs to know how the shift buttons work. But if you ever have friends who want to play your cabinet, I would go with pause + escape. Once you get the cabinet initially setup you shouldn't need other admin buttons like TAB or ENTER. Just use a keyboard at first to get everything setup then you won't need those buttons ever again.