Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Raspberry Pi & Dev Board => Topic started by: Batchman on July 03, 2016, 07:11:07 pm
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Hi, all,
I'm here in this section of the forum because I just learned about Raspberry Pi (well, learned of it's existence) as a $35-$40 computer, and I've been poking around the site and the internet for the last couple of hours trying to do some research. And I have some questions I haven't found any answers for yet.
So first off, is there a general information thread about Raspberry Pi and emulation that might show the positives and negatives in using it for emulation / cabinet work? If so, if I can be directed to it, this thread might very well be able to just be deleted. If there isn't one, might it be a good idea?
See, here's the thing. I do not have a lot of money. I am preparing for my first build, and I am already going to be spending at least a couple hundred dollars building a pedestal, and five hundred dollars on controls. I was also worried about spending three or four hundred dollars on a computer to run the thing ... at this point, spending something like $40 dollars for that side of things, instead, would be a very great blessing. But, of course, I know almost nothing about Raspberry Pi, so I do not know how well it would work.
I know that Raspberry Pi can work with MAME and most of the early console systems, and rumor is with RPi3 that consoles through about SNES work fine. Do most arcade games from the 70s-90s work fine, also? Are there lots of games that work on the main MAME project, but don't work on RPi?
The one system I don't see mentioned is Daphne ... can Daphne work, or are there emulation issues ... or simply disc space issues?
I expect I will be handling my joysticks and buttons with a IPAC4 and my Trackball and Spinner with an Opti-Wiz ... but from first glance, it looks like there are some threads about problems with trackballs and spinners, so I figured I would ask ... are there problems to consider with these?
Some way to attach a hard drive, or everything has to be done through a SD card? (And glancing at the pictures of the RPi, I don't see where the SD card goes, so I'm slightly confused). If only an SD card, which only has 64GB (only, he says ...) of space, and having to have some kind of operating system on there, how limited are you in space for games?
While I would like the option for some of the more modern games, in truth I have very little interest in arcade games beyond the 90s or consoles beyond the SNES, but still.
Also, how about sound and speaker output? As easy as a regular PC, or more involved?
Sorry for all the questions, but this seems like a somewhat new, but very cool, development that I would like to understand.
Oh, and with such a tiny computer, and so many buttons and joysticks, and multiple USB devices and so on, are there extra concerns for powering everything?
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You don't have to spend $300-$400 on a computer for MAME. I've picked up Core2Duos on Craigslist for less than the price of a new Pi.
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Yots is right, if size is no matter then picking up a old dual core from craigslist is generally easier and will probably be cheaper.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5baYAlWZs24 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5baYAlWZs24)
Video shows most of the basic emulators using the Pi3. No daphne though and I have never actually tried using daphne on a pi so im not sure how well it emulates.
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Yeah, please note, I'm not trying to discourage you from the Pi, I'm just saying it's not going to be necessarily the cheapest option.
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Yeah, please note, I'm not trying to discourage you from the Pi, I'm just saying it's not going to be necessarily the cheapest option.
^this -- by the time you purchase the pieces that are not part of the $30 - $40 Pi price (ie. powersupply, SD card, etc.) You'll quickly find yourself paying more than you can get a used PC either off cragslist or even an off lease reseller or local Pawn Shop !
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I was in your shoes a few months ago. I love the old arcade games and have been thinking of building a MAME cabinet for years. Stumbled across Pi and Retro Pi project and thought I'd just go ahead and do it. I'm a total Pi noob. Despite IT background, haven't used Unix in years. So, at this point, I'd say layperson. I'm doing this as much for my kids as for me. And to date, I've only put MAME roms on the "Magic Box" (as my kids have dubbed it).
I took this in stages.
1) Bought a Pi kit and some simple USB nintendo style controllers. My thought here was to see if I could actually get it to work and if the kids showed any interest. Other posters are correct, there is more cost. The kit I got was about 70 from Amazon and included pi3, case, power supply, and sd card. The USB controllers wer $12 a piece. It WORKS. Most of the issues I had getting the games I wanted to run had to do with ROM conflicts. Finally downloaded some of the rom repair tools and found a complete package of ROMS. I'd say 80% or more of them work. Run just like in the arcade.
2) Once I got the kit to work, then it was time to plan next step. My build is a portable control panel. So we can take the "Magic Box" to friends houses for parties and the like. Someday will likely become a dedicated cabinet, but for now control panel. So, I went to Ultimarc and bought half of what I needed. I went with Ultimate I/O , one servo stick, and some buttons. Again, baby steps. Wanted to make sure it worked. Perfect right out of the box. Nothing fancy required.
3) Ok, now for the rest. Another servo stick, trackball, spinner, and more buttons. This was where the problems started. I had to get firmware upgrade from Andy to make the trackball work and some config changes were required. Mame4All doesn't recognize trackballs, took me a week to find that post. But works like a charm with AdvMame. I still haven't been able to get the spinner to work. Put that on the shelf for now. Can still play tempest with trackball, not the same, but it's close. I do have an issue with the RGB buttons lighting up. Once EMulation station starts, the buttons turn off. The I/O runs it's startup and it looks good, but then darkness. Hoping someone can help with that, trying to get RGBcommander to work to see if that will solve it.
So, my journey was baby steps each way to prove it out and not just dump the big dollars until I knew it worked. I went with quality controls because I expect to do full cab in the future. And while the PI will handle most of want I want to do, for that cab I'll likely go PC. I know PCs way better and there is much better support. But for a fun portable project, Pi works great.
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And, yup, these are the kinds of things I needed to know. Still has it's place, and great for building a fairly portable system (if I use a regular computer I may have to yank it out of it's case to fit it in the pedestal) ... just include the computer -inside- the control panel ... but no spinner, and having to add on the power supply, maybe better to go the regular route for this one. Meanwhile, had no idea computers were so cheap.
So how fast a computer do I want to look for to be able to handle the earlier stuff?
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The earlier stuff will run on pretty much anything made in the last 10 years -- but with prices what they are something around a core2duo 3.0 ghz. will run all of that and some of the more recent stuff as well - so is a good starting point for something that is cheap and runs well. If you have trouble finding a cheap one that is 3.0GHz. or faster you can always go with a slower Core2duo based 775 MOBO and just replace the Chip with an e8400 for around $5 ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Core-2-Duo-E8400-CPU-3-0GHz-6M-1333-Processor-SLB9J-/282088390817?hash=item41adc740a1:g:tP4AAOSwOVpXazEv (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Core-2-Duo-E8400-CPU-3-0GHz-6M-1333-Processor-SLB9J-/282088390817?hash=item41adc740a1:g:tP4AAOSwOVpXazEv) ) as long as the MOBO supports them which most will
Or a slightly faster (3.16 Ghz.) e8500 for $7 ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-SLB9K-Core-2-Duo-E8500-Socket-775-CPU-Processor-3-16GHz-6M-1333/272281744240?_trksid=p2047675.c100008.m2219&_trkparms=aid%3D444000%26algo%3DSOI.DEFAULT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D37252%26meid%3D987467ca7fcc4d7d94740d3013cf5342%26pid%3D100008%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D282088390817 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-SLB9K-Core-2-Duo-E8500-Socket-775-CPU-Processor-3-16GHz-6M-1333/272281744240?_trksid=p2047675.c100008.m2219&_trkparms=aid%3D444000%26algo%3DSOI.DEFAULT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D37252%26meid%3D987467ca7fcc4d7d94740d3013cf5342%26pid%3D100008%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D282088390817) )
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Thank you very much for the information. (Can't remember the last time I bought a desktop computer, but it was probably close to 15 years ago ... I'm out of contact with the whole thing). Been using laptops for the last decade or so.
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I'm planning on building an arcade emulation with the Pi as well. After looking thru many videos and tutorials on Youtube, i find that installing and get the MAME games going seems to be much easier than messing with a Frontend like HyperSpin.
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I'm planning on building an arcade emulation with the Pi as well. After looking thru many videos and tutorials on Youtube, i find that installing and get the MAME games going seems to be much easier than messing with a Frontend like HyperSpin.
You need to stop watching videos and just try it yourself.
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If you have a goodwill or donation store like it. most cases you can get a core2duo machine for 20 bucks. generally something like the optiplex 775 which is what i got with 2gb ram in it and it will run all the games from the early days to the 2000s' with a few exception that don't run anyway. As for the Rpi get the 3 it will have the most power or you can wait a few more months and they will be dropping a Rpi4 they like to release a new one ea year in February.
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I'm planning on building an arcade emulation with the Pi as well. After looking thru many videos and tutorials on Youtube, i find that installing and get the MAME games going seems to be much easier than messing with a Frontend like HyperSpin.
You need to stop watching videos and just try it yourself.
I already did 3 cabinets running HyperSpin. That's why i'm gonna try using the Pi on my next one to see the advantages/disadvantages. Cuz mostly i wanna do is run old MAME games from my childhood.
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pi is great for old games..
it run psx games fine too..just n64 and dreamcast games run slow
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If you are putting it in a full size cab, go cheap computer. 3ghz core2duo will run anyting pii will run and you can get one for next to....free.
Another interesting cheap alternative is a first gen xbox modded with coinops. Also virtually free, but a bit harder to find one these days - 8-10 year old computers are a dime a dozen.
Pii is small and has the cool new gadget factor, but if you want real cheap, don't need the small size, and are okay giving up the hipster vibe, the choice is clear.
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I want to throw another solution into the mix also. You could use a multi board, I know the games are sub-par in some cases. But your system can be jamma ready, and it will be plug and play and silent. When I last put in a pc I had to use a load of fans to keep the thing cool. Didn't really give off that authentic vibe as it was a bit noisy, and took ages to boot...
Sent from my Fire Phone using Tapatalk
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Sure I used a pi in a smaller system., which was perfect. But for a bigger build I'd want something a bit beefier lol. A genuine arcade board would be the ideal, maybe even a neo geo twin slot motherboard one day perhaps?
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Did you want me to upload a video of My Pi 2 Bartop ? It runs most games just fine. I have Daphne running just fine with DL, DL2 and SA
Only issue I have is with Defender (one of my favourites). Definitely playable, but I think the draw time runs out and some aliens get warped out due to an algorithm in the game itself. I certainly don't recall it being like that in the arcades til you hit a smart bomb on some ads or much later in the game. Could be an issue with the emulation or the pi. I want to try it on a pi 3 and see if it improves
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I'd go PC route. Then slap on a cheap ssd.
If my bartop had to go through the whole Pi startup just for me to play 1 game of Pacman. I'd never use it.
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I think one of the pros of an RPi is the simplicity. It's a single SoC board that can be driven by 5V. You can load up a trivial OS on an SD card, and swap it in and out with other boards trivially. And you can't argue with the space savings or low power consumption.
There's obvious downsides. Getting 240p RGB out of one isn't trivial (not impossible, but not trivial). And the CPU grunt is pretty light, if you're out to emulate newer games.
If you want to build a full sized cabinet at absolute minimum cost, then yeah, you'll find cheaper options (hell, the amount of free PC hardware people have given me over the years means I'll never be without a ~1GHz x86 processor).
But say you want to build something space-constrained (handheld, bartop, etc), then an RPi becomes really attractive. Especially so if you want to play with battery-powered devices.
I recently built an RPi-based Moon Patrol clone as a gift for a friend, and chose the Pi purely for the simplicity. I took an image of the SD card that powers it so that I can replace it trivially if it ever breaks. And likewise if the hardware ever goes pop, I know I can replace it (even with a newer model Pi) with little effort.
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I uploaded a video of my Pi 2 Bartop Arcade running the Daphne games Dragons Lair 1/2 and Space Ace
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgOwztp9Rec&hd=1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgOwztp9Rec&hd=1)
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I'd go PC route. Then slap on a cheap ssd.
If my bartop had to go through the whole Pi startup just for me to play 1 game of Pacman. I'd never use it.
Not sure what you mean by this. Pi boot up and PC boot up isn't much difference.
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I'd go PC route. Then slap on a cheap ssd.
If my bartop had to go through the whole Pi startup just for me to play 1 game of Pacman. I'd never use it.
Not sure what you mean by this. Pi boot up and PC boot up isn't much difference.
Im thinking it would have to be boot times, Perhaps he feels a Rpi boots too slow compared to a pc with an SSD.
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7 seconds to get to "Retro Pie" splash screen (which is faster than the boot time of my attached TV)
21 seconds (from boot) to get all the way in the front end to user input
RP2 not overclocked, RetroPie image from a year ago, cheap 16GB micro SD card. My Ms Pacman upright original arcade takes longer than 21 second to come up.
I have an identical RP2 RetroPie setup at work in our game room. It's been running pretty much error-free for 6 months. It is on 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Doesn't overheat without heat sinks or fans. Runs with a (gasp) X-arcade Tank Stick to a 32-inch LCD TV. Easy for people to figure out. Running mostly the early arcade classics.
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Ah, you are using RetroPie, that's a good chunk of your problem. I love the Pi as a PCB replacement. Hide the boot scrawl and load to a single ROM.
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Ah, you are using RetroPie, that's a good chunk of your problem. I love the Pi as a PCB replacement. Hide the boot scrawl and load to a single ROM.
I PMd you about this Slippy, responded plx. ;D
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Sleep mode works wonders for boot times ;) I rarely turn off any of my computers, the power consumption during sleep is only a few watts.
I've seen some mini-PCs that look pretty cool, kinda like a Mac-mini. I actually started my build with a Mac-mini running a Win 7 VM, but it (OSX) was too much of a hassle.
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I'm starting a Pi project now, and I can say I've been happy with the cost involved.
In my opinion I do think it is one of the cheaper (cheapest) ways to get a cabinet set up.
I think the HUGE pro is the readily available image.
In past projects I've found the PC set up time has been MASSIVE.
From configuring the emulators, installing MALA, etc etc.
Personally for my existing project (Punch-Out! Bartop) I had an existing PC.
It was either use the existing PC, go PCB route with a Pandoras Box 3 (available cheap online) or try the Pi.
I found the Pi would be about the cheapest (considering what I had paid for the PC)...but again the time
involved is what sold me.
Just my opinion
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If you want something portable go with the Pi. If you want to build a cab use a cheap PC.
The Pi 3 is excellent for game emulation and is a lot easier to set up than my first cab was. P.us the new one have 32-64 bit four core processors with added graphics hard ware.
Believe me they may sell cheap but these guys are great lil computers. I have a battery powered one I use for away from the house gaming and programming so I don't have to drag my laptop around.
The amount of money you quote at the top is ridiculously expensive. I built my first cocktail cab for under $400 cash with a 24 inch flat screen
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Do they pay you by the post?
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The man asked for an over view. I really love my Pi.