The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: Soundwave on January 18, 2016, 02:32:15 pm
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I was considering either a custom win 7 or something like TinyXP for my arcade. I just need a base to run GameEx on. I haven't heard anything of TinyXP in years but does anyone here use a custom iso? If so what Windows version do you recommend to use? If you use TinyXp, how well is it working for more modern hardware?
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I'll answer your question with another question: Why? What problem are you actually trying to solve?
Windows 7 (unmodified) makes a perfectly good OS to run any front end or emulator.
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Honestly, I'd just go with a windows 7 setup. You can get win7 licenses for activation pretty cheap these days. Use that to upgrade to 10 for free, or use it just to activate win 7 on the cheap. XP is just a waste of time any more, no reason to go backwards or stay in the past OS setups. I mean, yeah, I REALLY REALLY miss my old Arcade OS on Windows 98 arcade machine, but times change. You'll thank yourself later for doing that.
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tiny7
nuff said.
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I stopped using "Tiny" XP builds once I went 64-bit with Windows 7. You see a much better increase going 64-bit that you do saving resources with "lite" versions.
However, I will say, Tiny XP is great for lower end PCs, but you'd also need to run an older version of MAME to benefit.
D
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Tiny(anything) is okay if you need just rudimentary access to a computer for testing...it's not real great for the long haul. lots of stuff you may end up needing for the long haul ends up being deleted or disabled to improve the load time...then you start futzing around with the OS getting things going and you end up with basically a full OS load after it's all said and done...
that said, lots of people use tinyxp or tiny7 for their arcade with no issues.
windows 7 licences are a dime a dozen. I literally peeled an HP key off a busted all in one computer and used my windows 7 home premium 64 disk to install. using that key... on a computer I built to use at work...not an HP machine... with no problem...then I "upgraded" to windows 10. so yeah free.
if you have an old busted laptop or something with a windows key, you can legally transfer the key onto a new machine. you may have to phone and activate (automated system 24/7 access) but you are legally allowed to do it.
there is a software swap subreddit (which will remain unnamed here) in which you can purchase windows keys for like 10 or 20 bucks each...90% of these keys come from corporate machines in which they use their volume licence and image 100's of computers...so the licence sticker that comes with the dell or HP computer goes "unused".
going legit is good in the sense that things stay updated and you don't have to worry about your installation becoming deactivated.
besides, with SSD prices these days, it's pretty easy to get a 60 buck 128gb drive and have a FULL LEGIT OS load faster than a stripped down tinyOS load on a platter drive.
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You could always go with a pre activated pirate copy as well.. but then, that's just so.. passe. Why not do it right and have the support from Microsoft. The last few licenses I purchased ran me $28.62 each. Used them for the free upgrade to 10. Once you install and activate the OS, you can always go into the control panel and remove windows components and do some manual tweaks to have it run optimal for emulation. With the ability to run modern hardware you'd be crazy to worry about the space differences between a Tiny7 install and a typical Home Premium install. If that is a factor, then one would have to ask what you are doing with such a low capacity media device in the first place.
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And for another thing. If your intention is to use it in an arcade cabinet, and you won't have it hooked up to the internet, then no reason to bother updating it any more then you need it to perform best. No need for anti virus, windows defender, ANYTHING used for internet or wireless transfer.. ditch it.
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Get MicroXP.
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As has already been said, I'd just go for a regular win7 install on an SSD, with all the unneeded crap turned off. Works great for me.
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Get MicroXP.
nanoXP
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Tiny(anything) is okay if you need just rudimentary access to a computer for testing...it's not real great for the long haul. lots of stuff you may end up needing for the long haul ends up being deleted or disabled to improve the load time...then you start futzing around with the OS getting things going and you end up with basically a full OS load after it's all said and done...
that said, lots of people use tinyxp or tiny7 for their arcade with no issues.
windows 7 licences are a dime a dozen. I literally peeled an HP key off a busted all in one computer and used my windows 7 home premium 64 disk to install. using that key... on a computer I built to use at work...not an HP machine... with no problem...then I "upgraded" to windows 10. so yeah free.
if you have an old busted laptop or something with a windows key, you can legally transfer the key onto a new machine. you may have to phone and activate (automated system 24/7 access) but you are legally allowed to do it.
there is a software swap subreddit (which will remain unnamed here) in which you can purchase windows keys for like 10 or 20 bucks each...90% of these keys come from corporate machines in which they use their volume licence and image 100's of computers...so the licence sticker that comes with the dell or HP computer goes "unused".
going legit is good in the sense that things stay updated and you don't have to worry about your installation becoming deactivated.
besides, with SSD prices these days, it's pretty easy to get a 60 buck 128gb drive and have a FULL LEGIT OS load faster than a stripped down tinyOS load on a platter drive.
What? I wasn't worried about a key, I own them all from DOS 3.1 up to Windows 10. I still have 4 keys to Vista Ultimate but it's complete overkill. The point of running "tiny" is to not only streamline the OS for specific use but offers near instant boot of the shell, that being GameEx for me. Not much point in access to servers, printing, search...etc if I'm just launching MAME games is there?
My steam gaming machine doesn't even launch Explorer, I use Steam as the shell, it's as streamlined as an Xbox and boots way faster than my Windows 10 machine. Using a Tiny 7 for that, streamlined just with the files necessary for gaming but is still 4 gigs because some file removals from WINSXS causes issues during the processing resulting in boot issues.
I really don't need anything but XP to run emulators and since the SSD drive I'll be using is only 64 gigs, TinyXP would make more sense here. Just not sure how it's well its running on modern hardware these days. A tiny 7 is easy enough but it still takes up over a gig more space than a basic XP custom iso.
And for another thing. If your intention is to use it in an arcade cabinet, and you won't have it hooked up to the internet, then no reason to bother updating it any more then you need it to perform best. No need for anti virus, windows defender, ANYTHING used for internet or wireless transfer.. ditch it.
Yes, that's the part of the whole point. ;). The support from MS thing was funny though. However money is not an issue for me, I own them all and quite a few keys. I used to build PC's for people.
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TinyXP: slim for everything you'd normally want to do, but want it a little faster; tiny if you need less; micro if you need almost nothing.
Tiny7: maybe, but I don't see a need for it.
7 x64: modern machine, current MAME, net play, transfering files, etc.
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TinyXP: slim for everything you'd normally want to do, but want it a little faster; tiny if you need less; micro if you need almost nothing.
Tiny7: maybe, but I don't see a need for it.
7 x64: modern machine, current MAME, net play, transfering files, etc.
Yes but is TinyXP even compatible with modern hardware? Drivers being my main worry here. Not sure if Nvidia even makes graphic card drivers for XP anymore, then there's the chipset...etc.
Guess I'll probably have to stick with 7, just thought I'd ask what everyone else uses. Not really sure why anyone here would build an arcade machine and use a default install of Windows, lot of waste of space and resources just to run some emu's in a cabinet.
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Not really sure why anyone here would build an arcade machine and use a default install of Windows, lot of waste of space and resources just to run some emu's in a cabinet.
I think you are over thinking this. I know, because I thought the same things you did. However, Windows' 7 footprint and resources are there for a reason. Sure, you can shut a few things off here and there (automatic updates, visual effects, background services) but eventually you are hitting the point of diminishing returns. Windows has to be there in some form to run things you see AND things you don't. Windows might have a few things running that you don't need but that does not mean they are taking resources from your front end or MAME. A base-install of Windows is not bloated.
A modern CPU with an SSD is going to overcome any "lag" that a base-install of Windows 7 has. Putting a tiny OS on modern hardware is like squeezing water from a rock. Your best opportunity for performance is in the CPU, SSD, and video card (if you care about HLSL)...not the OS.
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Not really sure why anyone here would build an arcade machine and use a default install of Windows, lot of waste of space and resources just to run some emu's in a cabinet.
I think you are over thinking this. I know, because I thought the same things you did. However, Windows' 7 footprint and resources are there for a reason. Sure, you can shut a few things off here and there (automatic updates, visual effects, background services) but eventually you are hitting the point of diminishing returns. Windows has to be there in some form to run things you see AND things you don't. Windows might have a few things running that you don't need but that does not mean they are taking resources from your front end or MAME. A base-install of Windows is not bloated.
A modern CPU with an SSD is going to overcome any "lag" that a base-install of Windows 7 has. Putting a tiny OS on modern hardware is like squeezing water from a rock. Your best opportunity for performance is in the CPU, SSD, and video card (if you care about HLSL)...not the OS.
Agreed. And with the "tiny" version of XP and 7, you might be missing out on some features that will actually HELP you. I see the tiny version of XP and 7 used on mainly small laptops with mSATA drives. It's actually quite understandable. But hell, as long as space permits, go with a normal version. There are several hooks and drivers and etc left out of a tiny version that will help your config run better. Not running a Dell 910 mini? Then don't be a tard, use a full version.
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TinyXP: slim for everything you'd normally want to do, but want it a little faster; tiny if you need less; micro if you need almost nothing.
Tiny7: maybe, but I don't see a need for it.
7 x64: modern machine, current MAME, net play, transfering files, etc.
Yes but is TinyXP even compatible with modern hardware? Drivers being my main worry here. Not sure if Nvidia even makes graphic card drivers for XP anymore, then there's the chipset...etc.
Guess I'll probably have to stick with 7, just thought I'd ask what everyone else uses. Not really sure why anyone here would build an arcade machine and use a default install of Windows, lot of waste of space and resources just to run some emu's in a cabinet.
Is it 2007 and I just unwrapped my shiny new 32 GB SSD? All my cabs have hard drives that are 75-85% empty anyway. I'm not sweating a few gigs on an OS install.
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i literally just bought a factory refurbished 128gb SSD for 29.99 just the other day.
sadly only one per customer or i would have bought 10.
my HTPC now boots faster than my TV does. image comes on and it's on the home screen.
is windows 7 and a complete romset under 128 gb? :dunno
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TinyXP: slim for everything you'd normally want to do, but want it a little faster; tiny if you need less; micro if you need almost nothing.
Tiny7: maybe, but I don't see a need for it.
7 x64: modern machine, current MAME, net play, transfering files, etc.
Yes but is TinyXP even compatible with modern hardware? Drivers being my main worry here. Not sure if Nvidia even makes graphic card drivers for XP anymore, then there's the chipset...etc.
Guess I'll probably have to stick with 7, just thought I'd ask what everyone else uses. Not really sure why anyone here would build an arcade machine and use a default install of Windows, lot of waste of space and resources just to run some emu's in a cabinet.
Is it 2007 and I just unwrapped my shiny new 32 GB SSD? All my cabs have hard drives that are 75-85% empty anyway. I'm not sweating a few gigs on an OS install.
^^^ This!
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Not really sure why anyone here would build an arcade machine and use a default install of Windows, lot of waste of space and resources just to run some emu's in a cabinet.
I think you are over thinking this. I know, because I thought the same things you did. However, Windows' 7 footprint and resources are there for a reason. Sure, you can shut a few things off here and there (automatic updates, visual effects, background services) but eventually you are hitting the point of diminishing returns. Windows has to be there in some form to run things you see AND things you don't. Windows might have a few things running that you don't need but that does not mean they are taking resources from your front end or MAME. A base-install of Windows is not bloated.
A modern CPU with an SSD is going to overcome any "lag" that a base-install of Windows 7 has. Putting a tiny OS on modern hardware is like squeezing water from a rock. Your best opportunity for performance is in the CPU, SSD, and video card (if you care about HLSL)...not the OS.
That reason being for a variety of computing uses.
Would you put a Windows 7 install in a car just to run diagnostics and display results? No thats why car makers use customized Linux designed explicitly for that task. It's why Sega used a customized Windows CE for Dreamcast and not Windows NT.
A dedicated system to a dedicated hardware is a more direct and faster method. It's like booting an Xbox vs a PC. It appears perhaps you don't know the Windows system itself that well. It's not bloated only if you plan to use it for a variety of computing tasks however I can assure you a small Windows install will boot much faster and launch your front end faster without scheduled tasks, writing logs, sending stats, syncing...etc from working in the background, which they do often whether you realize it or not but just because you have plenty of hardware doesn't mean it's necessary.
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It appears perhaps you don't know the Windows system itself that well.
Yea, you're probably right. Good luck with your build! :cheers:
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Yes but is TinyXP even compatible with modern hardware? Drivers being my main worry here. Not sure if Nvidia even makes graphic card drivers for XP anymore, then there's the chipset...etc.
Guess I'll probably have to stick with 7, just thought I'd ask what everyone else uses. Not really sure why anyone here would build an arcade machine and use a default install of Windows, lot of waste of space and resources just to run some emu's in a cabinet.
As I hoped to indicate: [Tiny]XP for a streamlined build. 7 for current uses and hardware, in which case you want to go x64.
Drivers for XP are easy to find. Legacy. My MAME is TinyXP, but I may be switching to 7x64 soon because I want to record game video at full rate while playing, and the performance boost of x64 is considerable all round.