Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: Endprodukt on May 09, 2015, 12:02:10 pm
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I love my aimtraks. I love gun games and this is the best option we got atm. What I don't like about them is that depending on how you aim - you might be in trouble giving the gun the next guy.
I can't code, so I hope that Andy might chime in as this can't be too hard for him to do (I hope). What I imagine is a tool just for calibrating the gun easily without leaving the frontend. You start it in you frontend of choice, you calibrate one or two guns, you leave it with escape. Done. Maybe a little guide in it (aim here, aim there, repeat, blah blah).
Another more complicated, but awesome option would be to have the tool actually start the game. Means: You choose Point Blank for example, it will start the calibration tool and after that the game. Would be perfect for recalibrating the guns before each game.
What do you guys think? Maybe Andy might do us a favour if there is enough demand?
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I am not really sure what you mean.
No software is required for calibration at all. That was one of the original design aims (scuse pun :)) ie no software or drivers needed for operation or calibration.
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Andy, thanks for chiming in!
Yes, it's possible to calibrate the guns without any software - but that brings the problem that you need to press the button down for a few seconds which is a problem when also playing positional gun games where you press down the trigger for long periods. Also, you can't see the calibration progress in a frontend or when you have hidden cursors to hide windows in a frontend-shelled situation.
Of course it works as it is - it's just not very cabinet friendly or easy to explain to people who never played on your cabinet before. With an easy tool you can tell them to go into that tool (from your frontend), it opens a full screen calibration tutorial (with small targets in the corners or X's, crosshairs, whatever) and it will either simply exit after calibration was succesfull (would be good to be able to test line of sight in the calibration progress, too) or you exit it via key. Would be perfect for cabinets.
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Am I the only one who thinks that this tool would make sense? I hate when people claim they can't aim correctly and I have to tell them we would have to recalibrate them everytime someone else is playing.
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being able to cancel calibration would be helpful as the PC in unusable unless the calibration is complete, and a lot of the time the calibration doesn't finish as it gets broken half way.
only solution i have is to disconnect the USB cable each time.
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I know what you mean. Calibrating the aimtrak, or any gun really, is not integrated with the launchers. So you have to exit them, calibrate, and then start them up again. This is only needed if the cursors are turned off in games
I think something like this would be great, but I think it is something that should be built into the front end or emulator. When launching a gun game, there could be middle-ware that starts first, lets you calibrate, and then opens the game when you press the p1 start button or something like that. If in the emulator, then maybe a function key will pause the game and let you calibrate.
IMO it would be a great feature, but I am not sure how practical it would be to implement something like that.
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Having a tool that starts before the game would be the perfect solution but way harder to do. Having a standalone tool that you start from the frontend is usually easy to implement and would be efficient enough I guess.
And yes, the calibrating is broke sometimes and can't be reset so that would be something to keep in mind too.
Most lightgun games had the option to repeat calibration via button press and continue to the next gun /finish calibration via trigger press. That should be considered as you could actually test your line of sight with a dot onscreen. Time crisis did it petty good.
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Having a tool that starts before the game would be the perfect solution but way harder to do.
Nope. It's tit. Within ten minutes I could code an ahk script you could launch with params that would get launched when closing the app.
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Sounds good, we'd still need the app to actually calibrate the guns. Ahk is indeed a good option. Do you mind me hitting you up for help with the AHK?
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Sounds good, we'd still need the app to actually calibrate the guns. Ahk is indeed a good option. Do you mind me hitting you up for help with the AHK?
I can help to an extent. My computer is currently in storage. I hopefully will be in a new apartment next month and could further help then.
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Sounds good, we'd still need the app to actually calibrate the guns. Ahk is indeed a good option. Do you mind me hitting you up for help with the AHK?
I can help to an extent. My computer is currently in storage. I hopefully will be in a new apartment next month and could further help then.
It's appreciated, thanks!
Andy, what do you think?
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Seriously, there have to be more Aimtrak User who would think this could be usefull. No!?
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What would help is a configuration that works in windows but translates to games that play in 4:3 on the 16:9 screen. Mame will send the position of the gun to, say, 1,1, but to get there you have to point 2 inches into the black bars of a 4:3 game, so your aim is off by two or more inches on the sides. This is the biggest issue I have with them. I get around it by calibrating using corners where the letterboxed games end rather than the actual corners of the screen. However when I go to play a widescreen game in demul or something, it is now off again.
As for front end calibration, it would be good for people of different sizes to make them more accurate before entering a game, but frankly with all the other issues, even if you are holding it exactly where you calibrated it in windows, then calibrate it in the game with the service menu, it still isn't even close to the sight accuracy of a game like buck hunter. Not even a little bit. I end up turning on crosshairs and shooting from the hip, and that takes away from the gameplay. The guns are just too finicky to work reliably, and God forbid you turn your PC off then on again and get random gun assignments and have to redo all your keys each time. Love gun games but I gave up trying to get them to work well on my cab..
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I don't understand why this is necessary. With a button combination you can trigger the built in calibration at any time
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Do you have a cabinet and two guns ? People holding the gun differently can't play. The accuracy is what matters in games like point blank. Being two inches off because the last player shot from the hip is not an option. Calibrating the guns with the existing options is not going to work on a cabinet. You have to exit your Frontend and explain to people what to do. Guns never get used because they're basically not working as they should.
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I'm surprised that there isn't much more demand for this. I feel like the inacurracy between players is actually pretty bad - that bad that's it's just not very much fun to play with friends. No one else feeling like this?
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I think most people gave up trying to get their guns to work well and just keep it as an expensive gimmick.
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I think most people gave up trying to get their guns to work well and just keep it as an expensive gimmick.
This. Occasionally friends have asked me if we can use those and I don't even bother anymore. It breaks up a good flow of game-playing fun every time I've tried, as you spend 20 minutes trying to get them to work only to finally give up. I love everything else that Andy's done - and I think it's done as best as is currently possible, but I'll certainly move on if something easier to keep running comes along.
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Besides the fact that I need a calibration tool the guns work as expected. I don't see the problem.
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Besides the fact that I need a calibration tool the guns work as expected. I don't see the problem.
Here are the problems:
1) With 2 guns installed, gun 2 will often get glitchy. swapping guns 1 and 2 does not correct it, the problem follows gun 2, not the gun that glitched. Many people have reported the same results.
2) Calibration is completely positionally dependent. Move the gun position 12 inches in any direction and calibration is off by 2-4 inches on the screen.
3) Calibration takes place on a 16x9screen (for those with typical LCD monitors) but games play in a letterboxed 4:3 screen, so to target the top left of the game screen, you have to aim at the top left of the monitor, which is usually 2-3 inches off the corner of the game screen. Combined with #2, this snowballs into an even worse issue.
4) Most games have an in-game calibration that is required each time you start that game. Outside of mame this can get even more complicated.
5) upon reboot, power loss, or just unplugging the gun, it will get randomly assigned to a new gun # which requires resetting the controls in mame.
6) Outside of mame, most emulators only support 1 gun at a time.
Many of these can be overcome with 20-30 minutes of fiddling, extensive use of third party software, and a deep understanding of what is required to make the guns work well in a game. If you are the only person who uses them and you don't mind doing this each time you start a different game, it is OK. If you are trying to let friends play without babysitting the controls, it will quickly degenerate into a poor experience for everyone.
My favorite arcade game outside of my house is Big Buck HD (or World now), and I wanted to reproduce that kind of gaming experience at home. It misses the experience by 90% across the board. Those guns work on the same basic technology as aimtracks yet somehow work incredibly well regardless of position of the player. I would have paid double or triple for my guns to calibrate and maintain calibration that well. Unfortunately they just don't, so I gave up on them and chalked it up to a $200+ mistake. No front end calibration tool is going to alleviate all the above issues, so it just isn't worth the time to pursue.
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Besides the fact that I need a calibration tool the guns work as expected. I don't see the problem.
Here are the problems:
1) With 2 guns installed, gun 2 will often get glitchy. swapping guns 1 and 2 does not correct it, the problem follows gun 2, not the gun that glitched. Many people have reported the same results.
2) Calibration is completely positionally dependent. Move the gun position 12 inches in any direction and calibration is off by 2-4 inches on the screen.
3) Calibration takes place on a 16x9screen (for those with typical LCD monitors) but games play in a letterboxed 4:3 screen, so to target the top left of the game screen, you have to aim at the top left of the monitor, which is usually 2-3 inches off the corner of the game screen. Combined with #2, this snowballs into an even worse issue.
4) Most games have an in-game calibration that is required each time you start that game. Outside of mame this can get even more complicated.
5) upon reboot, power loss, or just unplugging the gun, it will get randomly assigned to a new gun # which requires resetting the controls in mame.
6) Outside of mame, most emulators only support 1 gun at a time.
Many of these can be overcome with 20-30 minutes of fiddling, extensive use of third party software, and a deep understanding of what is required to make the guns work well in a game. If you are the only person who uses them and you don't mind doing this each time you start a different game, it is OK. If you are trying to let friends play without babysitting the controls, it will quickly degenerate into a poor experience for everyone.
My favorite arcade game outside of my house is Big Buck HD (or World now), and I wanted to reproduce that kind of gaming experience at home. It misses the experience by 90% across the board. Those guns work on the same basic technology as aimtracks yet somehow work incredibly well regardless of position of the player. I would have paid double or triple for my guns to calibrate and maintain calibration that well. Unfortunately they just don't, so I gave up on them and chalked it up to a $200+ mistake. No front end calibration tool is going to alleviate all the above issues, so it just isn't worth the time to pursue.
1) Doesn't happen often over here. Had it happen a few times - compared to hours of fine gameplay that's acceptable.
2) True story, that's why I want a calibration tool. I don't jump around in front of the cab that much.
3) That's not a problem of the aimtrak. Of course you have let the gun know where your corners are depending on the aspect ratio of the game. Using a Hantarex Polostar 25" over here - 4:3 - no problem for me. 100% of the games I play with Aimtraks are 4:3 anyway.
4) In-Game calibration everytime you start the game? That's not the case with any of the arcade games I play. Neither in Mame, Model 2 or Naomi. Another story on console but that's something you can't blame Ultimarc for.
5) Yes - if you unplug them windows might reassign them. That's a windows problem and can't be solved by Ultimarc - I wouldn't know how. Especially in a setup with spinners and trackballs you will know that problem as it happens to them, too. Never had a problem after power loss or reboot. It's always Gun 4 and Gun 5 for me, set in the default settings (which is set to READ ONLY).
6) Well... can't blame ultimarc for that. Don't see the connection to my request either. Mame, Model 2 and Model 3 support dual guns and that's fine for me. Whish any Naomi emulator did.
IF something doesn't work (in Mame) it's a matter of minutes to correct it. It shouldn't be that way but that not just a problem of the Aimtrak. I still hope that future upgrades might increase the way the aimtraks work and makes them less sensitive to moving around. We'll see - I think that a calibration tool is a step forward.
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IF something doesn't work (in Mame) it's a matter of minutes to correct it. It shouldn't be that way but that not just a problem of the Aimtrak. I still hope that future upgrades might increase the way the aimtraks work and makes them less sensitive to moving around. We'll see - I think that a calibration tool is a step forward.
That's the whole point though. When you have 5 friends over who want to play a game, you don't want to stop them and start fiddling. By the time you are done they have lost interest and moved on to something else.
You may not have issues with the problems I listed, but many here do. You asked why nobody was responding to your poll, and those things I listed are your answer. I want to plug in a control and have it work for everything with one setup. The guns don't, so they sit and collect dust.
I think you have a good idea that would solve one of many problems. It wouldn't be enough to get me to spend more time fiddling with my aimtracks again, but if I ever did it would be nice to have. Good luck in getting someone to write the software for you.
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IF something doesn't work (in Mame) it's a matter of minutes to correct it. It shouldn't be that way but that not just a problem of the Aimtrak. I still hope that future upgrades might increase the way the aimtraks work and makes them less sensitive to moving around. We'll see - I think that a calibration tool is a step forward.
That's the whole point though. When you have 5 friends over who want to play a game, you don't want to stop them and start fiddling. By the time you are done they have lost interest and moved on to something else.
You may not have issues with the problems I listed, but many here do. You asked why nobody was responding to your poll, and those things I listed are your answer. I want to plug in a control and have it work for everything with one setup. The guns don't, so they sit and collect dust.
I think you have a good idea that would solve one of many problems. It wouldn't be enough to get me to spend more time fiddling with my aimtracks again, but if I ever did it would be nice to have. Good luck in getting someone to write the software for you.
My point is that the "fiddling" is a problem that you might have with any device that's basicaly a mouse and integrated into a huge control panel that most people around here have. I had the same problems with spinners and trackballs that I might have with aimtraks and it was ALWAYS something I did wrong.
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I have to agree with Endprodukt here. I think it would be useful for a FE calibration tool. I usually don't play with my guns because of all the said issues above. However, when I get the urge to play, I properly calibrate them and it works pretty well for me. Now if this could be done inside the FE without having to get to my desktop, it would be a big help. I think he's got a point here.
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I have a bunch of aimtraks and have experienced some of the problems above.Mostly the part about windows reassigning a new device id randomly,sometimes for no apparent reason,just reboot and the guns have a new id,happened a few times.the worst thing is the calibration for different players.I dont mind fiddling around for 5 10 minutes before i get into a gun game to have it setup and working well.But when you have people over and you have to recalibrate a gun eveytime someone else holds it,it quickly gets stale and people just say fuc the guns they dont work,and either want to play something else or shut the machine off.you dont want to sit there and watch your buddy alt tab out of the frontend and fiddle around windows every 5 minutes.Over all when im the only one using them,there isnt much of a problem.
instead of a program you have to launch inside the front end,I would suggest modding the current calibration method to show a sprite on top of the calbration points over top any running apps so its always visible while the calibration is running..or maybe have the calibration process temporarily disable nomousy so you can see the cursor when you initiate the calibration.Being able to just hold a button for 5 secs and have the calibration points be visible on top of eveything else running will really help the on the fly calibration.Andy use your brilliance and make it happen.