The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Driving & Racing Cabinets => Topic started by: Cretster on January 07, 2015, 09:42:38 am
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Ok guys, this is the background first to the project, I already had a standup cab I built and modded over the last few years which has been a project I really enjoyed doing.
I love the challenge of a build that does what I want, but am not good when it comes to the finish of projects etc sadly.
So the original was a standup with a fold out keyboard, two player stick & buttons, trackball, and pinball controls, plus a steering wheel that folded out from inside the cabinet to lock in place on the front for driver games (pedals permanently in situ at the bottom). Also a flight stick that rotates from the side of the cab to lock in position on the front.
Not everyone's cup of tea, but I loved making it and playing it. Recently though there's been a few changes making me wanting to change it.
1) My kids (4 and 6) want to play on it but aren't tall enough really and if on a chair can't reach pedals and wheel simultaneously. It's driving games they like most.
2) More and more I want to play driver games (either PC based ones, or now I've included a 360 in it, Forza 4). I have back problems and my back doesn't appreciate me standing to play drivers or sitting on the edge of a tall chair.
3) I'd like to build a dedicated driver cab but no way this is happening due to space constraints. I don't have a place to fit one permanently due to the footprint - the wife doesn't like the existing cab taking up space, so a second one is out of the question, and replacing the existing one with a sit in cab is no good for other games.
4) I also want a sit in cab for playing flight sims and now that I have it, for Elite Dangerous too.....
So the conclusion was to disassemble the current cab and build one that ticks both boxes. I.e. a stand up that converts to a sit in racing cab as & when required.
Many people may not like the idea so please don't feel the need to follow the project if this is not your cup of tea - we all like different things, and I like a challenge.
First things first, I knocked up a hasty balsa scale model to see if it would remotely be something worth trying.
This is effectively the current stand up machine:
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/B51B01E7-1B72-47B0-9ECF-D96D2A13A2C8_zpseualxrto.jpg)
Then here with the top module lowered, the front panel folded down and seat in position, plus wheel folded out from within the cab:
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/74FBCA30-76B7-4F01-A6A2-18790A6B8B85_zpshnhnog3l.jpg)
Step one then, take apart the existing cab:
Here is was in place:
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/D08D49C1-AE68-4C11-8DEB-73871D243D48_zpsdgj49jae.jpg)
Stripped out:
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/8C786B7F-C8CB-4FA0-BE77-FA1A665C90FE_zps6mi7tytf.jpg)
Taking cab apart:
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/5F37BFA3-867C-49BC-9EA8-8BC825B48AFA_zpsgii6vt1u.jpg)
Now one 'upgrade' here was that the existing 19" monitor was acceptable stood up close for the games, in that format cab, but sitting down and further back as a driver it would need a bigger screen so I bought a 32" LCD for the job.
With that in mind, I cut both side panels just below the level of control panel, in order that there would be a top module containing the new monitor, and which could be raised & lowered as required depending on the mode of the machine. The top section was measured and widened to suit the new monitor:
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/32082CBF-CD8C-472C-92E3-851763C9C6C3_zpsuxu6osti.jpg)
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/DE09087C-FD05-4797-B06B-088D791F1578_zpsn9jitn5g.jpg)
The monitor module will raise & lower by approx 13" between modes. A little more travel would be good in an idea world but I think after some basic measuring that this should do the job.
This is achieved with an electric linear actuator donated by a friend:
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/71FA540E-D0E5-4EC7-A4BF-BA967DAD21C5_zpsdgxllarx.jpg)
To stabilise the movement up & down of this section and make sure it moves as smoothly as possible I've got a set of 4 linear bearing blocks, for 16mm rod/tube. So the ram will push towards the rear centre of the monitor module, and the bearings rods will be closer to the front. I'd prefer the ram to be mounted more centrally to balance the weight more evenly, but it would put it right in the way of other parts of mechanism required so I don't think I can. This may get experimented with, depending on how it behaves as the build progresses. It's important that the top section moves nicely and isn't wobbling around the place!!
Not sure what else will be housed in the top with the monitor yet, eg the PC itself or AV amp etc. Undecided at present. It can lift 160kg so no problems either way. Just a matter of what suits the space best, and what room is available elsewhere.
The seat section will housed in be the 3 foot tall front panel (to the height of the control panel when in stand up mode) which pivots down from the base. This'll need to have some sort of built in side panels to improve the look (will be tricky for the bearing rails to keep out of the way of these). A folding seat will be fitted in the top of this panel, and hopefully be adjustable forwards & backwards, with the same for the pedals. Not sure what mechanism I'll use for having these adjust but it needs to not be too fiddly really.
Contents out of the old cabinet!
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/372BEE77-AF72-4CCF-AD76-DF5D2EA3183E_zpspjzl0wci.jpg)
Anyway, I've begun some progress on beginning the built/adaptation.
These pics are hard to see what's what from the floor in the shed looking the same as the parts of cabinet but still. It might give an idea.
Here's the separated top & bottom panels showing the approx position of the actuator, and the the bearings rods in place:
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/F6617516-144E-42DD-A509-8B82BF0568F0_zpslheqybd5.jpg)
This one maybe shows a touch better the positioning of these parts to facilitate the moving up & down of the monitor section.
The positioning of the bearings/rods & actuator are far from being final yet.
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/60DAE3B1-E194-4919-B6F0-1BF8A371B66D_zps0z7tfgkh.jpg)
One issue I forsee potentially is the strength/rigidity of the bottom half of the cabinet. The problem is that due to the way the top section lowers down, I can't put a cross member/beam across the front at the top of the lower section, so this can introduce weakness and flex potentially. Hopefully the fact that it's locked in with the top module via the sliders will prevent this being an issue, but I'll just have to wait and see how it transpires as things progress.
So this will be interesting to say the least. I've bought the monitor and completely dismantled the old cab so no going back now.
One bonus of course is that as a driver cab I'll be able to include rear speakers and thus install a nice 5.1 sound system to it, which should add to the enjoyment playing the likes of Forza and Elite etc. Also, it may be an option to include some sort of rumble thing under the seat.
Flight controls are planned on being integrated to the fold down panel, but so they can rotate out of the way as required.
The front panel is unlikely to be motorised at this stage, but I plan on using a pair of gas struts (car tailgate type) to enable it to raise/lower with a relatively neutral balance if I can get it right.
Cheers guys!
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Looks cool.
(http://i.imgur.com/JeB9hkB.jpg)
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Anything with actuators on it is cool! ;D ;D ;D
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Thanks folks.
More than happy to accept ideas & input on any obvious blunders in design that'll stop something from working further down the line. I have at least planned this at a crude level (more than I normally do), but certainly not to the extent of the wonderful 3D models some people make. I don't have sufficient skill with those programs nor the spare time to learn currently.
Please don't take offense if you you offer suggestions/criticism and I don't agree or do something the way suggested - I very much appreciate the input & ideas regardless!
Re' the actuators, originally I was meant to have 2 of these big buggers but my friend cannot find the matching one. One is plenty sufficient for the weight involved but would have been nice to use the other for raising/lowering the seat section.
I do have a second actuator but a baby one which has 78mm travel from one end to the other. I'm wondering if this can be used to move the wheel from its hidden to deployed position, but would have to think about how to effectively translate that 78mm movement into around 180 rotation of the wheel in an arc. Got an idea how that might be done but need to sketch it out....
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Also, don't expect anything remotely resembling aesthetics for a long time yet. The main thing is to do proof of concept in respect of the moving parts and ensure they can co-ordinate and get into positions where it's ergonomically acceptable, before then adding any electronics and tidying it all up.
I've got a nice Yamaha AV amp (DTS/Dolby Digital 5.1) that's sort of surplus to requirements, but due to the amount of space it'll take up and the fact I'd then have to have full access to all the controls/display etc is making me think twice about using it. Possibly it could fit beneath the driver seat, but then it's not accessible for stand up mode for the cabinet.
This is something I'll have to address since even if I just buy something like a fairly cheap PC based 5.1 system it'll be great from the space & practicality angle, and would simplify controls etc, but I'd want to arrange it somehow so that at the very least the volume is in easy reach in either playing mode. Not sure how that would work or where/how I would need to position controls in order that they would be accessible for both scenarios but it needs some thought.
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This is something I'll have to address since even if I just buy something like a fairly cheap PC based 5.1 system it'll be great from the space & practicality angle, and would simplify controls etc, but I'd want to arrange it somehow so that at the very least the volume is in easy reach in either playing mode. Not sure how that would work or where/how I would need to position controls in order that they would be accessible for both scenarios but it needs some thought.
The 2.1 setup I had on my old driving cab had the volume and headphone jacks on a wired remote separate from any of the speakers.
I had it velcro'd just under the steering wheel. You could do something similar and have Velcro patches in different places for upright vs driving.
Not a slick solution, but would be functional.
Another idea would be to have buttons that post as volume controls on a keyboard.
You could just have buttons in multiple places wired together.
I know in your other thread you mentioned wanting to run an xbox360, so it wouldn't work for that though.
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Thanks for the suggestion buddy.
I had the 360 armed & fully operational in my cab before I dismantled it although the sound was a little crude to be honest.
The previous setup was a cambridge audio 2 channel hifi separate amp running a set of 15cm (ish) bass/mid drivers and separate ear level tweeters through crossovers, plus for bottom end a Kicker 8" bass tube running from an Alpine MRD-M300 mono amp. Bit of a mish mash, and not the last world in fidelity but was good enough. The problem I had with that setup was the alpine bass amp (being a car one) is designed to have a permanent live 12v+ feed to it, which of course the ATX PSU does not give. And as that particular amp has all its settings entered by button presses, and not by position of a -db knob etc, it 'forgot' each time the machine was off, and defaulted to stupid amounts of bass each time. Tedious!!!
The 360 had simple stereo phono outputs to the cambridge amp, and the same from the sound card on the PC motherboard, so it all worked fine really, but plenty of room for improvement. If I used the spare AV amp I've got then it'd mean I could have optical output from both the 360 and the PC into the amp to give surround. It's just it's a big heavy bugger for locating it. Plus, while I can use the remote for it, I'd rather have hard installed controlled, without too much complexity.
The velcro idea would work ok, but I'd prefer if i can have EITHER, certain controls duplicated (electronically could be a nuisance to do), or have the main controls in easy reach somehow for either configuration.
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Something like this is what I was thinking might greatly simplify things:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Logitech-X540-Surround-Sound-5-1-System-/161544441681?pt=UK_Computing_Speakers&hash=item259ccc8f51 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Logitech-X540-Surround-Sound-5-1-System-/161544441681?pt=UK_Computing_Speakers&hash=item259ccc8f51)
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I have almost that exact same Logitech speaker system in my driving cab. Works great. I tried numerous other speak systems / setups. The 5.1 Logitech's proved to be the simplest, cheapest, and best sounding option (by a long shot).
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Ace, thanks - that's good to know. Does it have much 'oomph' to it? I realise that's subjective and it's only a very small system compared to separates etc, but still enough to give a good robust sound?
One thing I would love to do is to add a touchscreen overlay to the monitor but I don't think I can get one for a 32" screen (for jukebox purposes and game selection etc). Not actually looked for that specifically but I think I've only commonly seen up to about 19" ones before. Will check though.
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Well, when I crank my cabinet up it thumps pretty good, and you can hear it loud and clear outside of the garage... :)
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Plenty good enough for me then. Don't want a beast, just enough that if I want to crank it up on occasion a bit louder than TV levels that it won't horribly distort/clip.
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Hard to really see what's what from these pics but here's a couple of pics showing the monitor and control section in raised and lowered position. There's approx 13" difference in height between the two, which seems just about right for the difference between a standup and sit down cab depending of course on the seat height.
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/EBB3CE49-9736-4CB5-A60B-5E352257BB71_zpswlcfyfiw.jpg)
I don't like the way in this top pic (cab in lower position) that the top edges of the side panels stick up above the control panel level. I might have to do something about the shape or taper of the front panel to address this, as while I'm a thug when it comes to making things look good, I'm not keen on how this would affect the end result.
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/551DAB54-01D0-47F1-AA81-21F4724F5689_zpst28b0ez4.jpg)
Here you can see the sliders and linear bearing blocks that it moves on. Yes I know it all looks horrible and rough currently....
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/06D90672-A0CE-42FC-A500-7AD53128B76F_zpsgv1nxxdm.jpg)
My main concern at present is whether the ram will be able to make it lift smoothly and evenly. The linear bearings/rails are meant to facilitate this, but I think it might be easier said than done, and I don't want it to jerk and wobble around as it raises/lowers. What I might therefore need to do is to fabricate a big metal bracket so that the top and bottom of the ram are pretty rigid, meaning it doesn't allow it to push anything other than perfectly straight up & down. Sounds kind of obvious but the rails ought to prevent a lot of the need for that in theory so I was hoping not to have to.
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Ok, some progress now, but I think I need a bit of help at this point maybe with some ideas.
I've fitted the main lifting ram/actuator, and it has no trouble whatsoever lifting the top module up & down. It stops automatically when it gets to the end of its travel so no worries there. It's even relatively smooth, and I suspect that once it's full of stuff like the monitor and other electronics (ie extra weight) it'll be smoother.
The problem I've realised at this point is that it's when at the top position it's susceptible to quite a lot of wobble, and this needs to be resolved. I don't mind if it can move a tiny tiny amount since any mechanical device would have some element of play/backlash, but it's not stable enough at present.
Here's a couple of pics of it with the ram fitted, extended to the up position:
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/03DEA6B0-18E0-4FAF-8788-B3A6C8CA3EE9_zpswq32chuq.jpg)
(http://s26.photobucket.com/user/Cret/media/CF3058DA-C9C5-49E2-8029-49B04F0EA198_zpsryvyqftg.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0)
Now in an ideal theoretical world the metal bar I've fitted across where the ran attaches, might stop the top section from wobbling, but with this gauge of metal, the weight and leverage & general physics etc involved there's not a hope of that.
You can see how it works though - the ram raises & lowers and the slider rail at each side smoothes & guides the cabinet to move up & down.
The issue with that is it's a lot of potential leverage on those rods and their mount points, plus there's nothing to guarantee that they both move up & down by equal amounts constantly other than the theory of the ram being in the mid point and being balanced (as best as is possible).
So it works, but not well enough.
So ideas are requested here on how to ensure the sides of the top module to not either have the freedom to rock/tilt forwards & backwards, or effectively rotate from side to side (ie one rod being lower than the other etc).
I wondered if adding some drawer runners (assuming they're decent ones that don't have lots of play) would do the job, but they need at least 13" travel. I think they would prevent it from tilting forwards/backwards, but not from side to side, unless perhaps I fit a second pair on the back of the cab?
I'm all ears anyway guys. Itching to do more but don't want to until I resolve this as it's a fundamental thing that it has to be steady when raised (when it's lowered it sits on its lowest 'stop' points and cannot really move so that's not really an issue).
Thanks for any ideas!!!
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These are the sort of things I'm thinking of - say one on each side to complement the existing rods/bearings, and one pair on the rear of the cab. Given the construction/nature of these, there shouldn't be a lot of room for them to bend across their width (not thickness - if that makes any sense), so hopefully by covering 3 sides it'd keep it all pretty solid, but smooth with the bearings in them?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Double-Fully-Extension-Ball-Bearing-Drawer-Slide-Runners-Heavy-Duty-45kg-Runner-/330695818115?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Kitchen_KitchenFurniture_EH&var=&hash=item4cff01bb83 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Double-Fully-Extension-Ball-Bearing-Drawer-Slide-Runners-Heavy-Duty-45kg-Runner-/330695818115?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Kitchen_KitchenFurniture_EH&var=&hash=item4cff01bb83)
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I would be concerned that adding more things with basically the same goal and system (like adding drawer glides to the existing rods) would only add more points for binding and potentially make the movement jerky without really doing much to solidify the cabinet in the tall position.
The linear guides and rods you're using typically are supported on both ends with the item moving on them being mounted between the rigid mounts of the rod. I know that doesn't work here but could you brace the top of the rods to each other and/or add some diagonal bracing from the top of the rods to the bottom or back of the cabinet? Any wobble you are getting is probably the result of the rods flexing or moving in their wooden mounts in the bottom cabinet, if you can brace the top of the rods to each other and also brace them down to the back of the bottom cabinet at an angle you will be able to get rid of a lot of the flex.
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Thanks - that's an interesting thought and one that had certainly not occurred to me in the sense of securing them in that particular way.
I think I could probably make a sort of grid/frame for the top of the rods to secure into. It should definitely improve it, but I don't know if it would be sufficient. Hard to know but worth trying.
I did also consider that if I added all those drawer type sliders then it might work out better to remove the rods & linear bearings as it might be a bit of overkill and make them a bit superfluous.
again, hard to know which would be most beneficial without trying so since they're cheap, I might order one pair of those anyway for the rear of the cabinet, but make a brace in the meantime for the top of the rods.
Good thinking.
Ideally also, I think some sort of sprung mechanism would be good that secures the top once it reaches its top point. That's probably not difficult to design & make, but I need to bear in mind that it should be quick & easy to release again for lowering it back down again. Possibly even an electromagnetic bolt or two that lock it maybe?
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Hmmm, looking at the pics again, I think a brace for the top of the rods wouldn't be as easy as first thought.
The issue is that when it's lowered down there's a lot of those rods exposed in the top half, without much support, but then when it's in the low position the cabinet is pretty secure anyway, so not an issue at that point.
In contrast, when it's raised, there's a little of the rod exposed at the end, but the only thing to secure this to is the top section itself, which it already effectively is secured to by the top pair of linear bearings (hope this makes sense), but a big distance between the top section and the bottom of the rods where they secure to the bottom section of cabinet.
BUT, if I perhaps ran a thick/solid spine piece or two from the lower cabinet up behind the whole thing (ie two beams with little to no flex) then it could have brace pieces that reach in from those to secure on the top of the rods. They'd need to be no taller than the top of the machine in its lowered state. This would then mean both ends of the rods are effectively secured against the main lower section of the carcass.
Hope I've explained that in a way that makes sense.
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If I'm reading your response correctly you are talking about the linear bearings themselves bracing the rods, but the problem is that the linear bearings are attached to the moving part and not the stationary part so the space between rods is fixed but they can still sway in relation to the lower cab and therefore the player. The super quick crappy red lines in my attached image show where I would add braces, 1 between the two rods at the top and then one from each of those corners down and back to the rear of the lower cab, creating a cross-brace that ties the top of the rods to the bottom of the cabinet.
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t100/bfauska/DiagBraceSketch_zps68fcc9d3.jpg) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/bfauska/media/DiagBraceSketch_zps68fcc9d3.jpg.html)
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Yes of course! Thanks - I see now. Your awesome 'artists impression' is just what I needed. :)
That makes a lot of sense. The only thing I would have to be careful of is bringing those braces near the front of the lower cabinet since they would cause a major obstruction to the fold down seat section (ie the front panel of the cabinet with side panels etc. I'm sure I could work round that though and possibly include what I'd described as well too.
Thanks so much for the suggestion!
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Actually - I've just been and had a look at it and given it a wobble and on reflection I'm not sure the cross braces you describe will help. When it's lowered they will help secure the tops but that's not a problem anyway. When raised though, the rods can't sway other than forwards/backwards (due to any movement/weight of the top cab tilting). The side to side movement is the top cab and linear bearings moving on the rods (one side up one side down, only a little) even if the rods are perfectly still. Shouldn't really be able to with two of those bearings per rod as that should provide quite a bit of rigidity but my guess is the rods are just a fraction of a mm below the ideal diameter and this provides enough slack for it all to flex since any tiny movement there is amplified as a fulcrum point.
I might try it anyway in case I'm overlooking an angle to this.
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I think I have another solution now actually. A mixture of ideas.
My friend called round and suggested I put stops on the two rods, above the exact position of the upper linear bearing. This 'should' stop the side to side movement it can do when raised, since it prevents either side from moving any higher. I.e. one side cannot rock lower, if the opposite side cannot move higher, and vice versa. I think it's a great idea, and easy to implement. I may include some sort of rubber damper so that it's easier to exactly align the stop point of the ram, with the limit positions of these new stoppers.
So that should solve the side to side motion.
Re' the front to back tilting, I still think a strong wooden spine (or metal box even) on either side at the rear of the cab, can have a brace extending inwards to prevent the rods flexing forwards & backwards.
I'll try to draw a picture as it might make more sense.
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Here's what I mean - the little red donut type bit gets fixed to the rod (screw through it) - not secured to the top cab half. But it prevents that side of the top cab moving any further up than the actuator limit by rocking. Same on other side. Ergo, it can't then rock side to side.
The spine bit at the back shows on the inside of the cab but would actually be behind it all, but basically a solid timber running up the back, with a brace that comes in to the top of the rod and prevents it flexing forwards or backwards. Therefore the second axis of unwanted movement is fixed.
Or something. Hope that makes sense!!!
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(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/71FA540E-D0E5-4EC7-A4BF-BA967DAD21C5_zpsdgxllarx.jpg)
Cool project! Is the 62t/64x going to allow you to play WaveRunner on this cabinet?
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Ha ha!!! Good spot mate - it's from a squarenose superjet 650. I was given it by my brother as needing engine mounts and an impeller pump housing.
After I got it home and started to disassemble it, I soon found water in the crankcase, so that was that. A complete engine rebuild in the process now. Just need to pull my finger out and put it together.
Then I need to gelcoat (flocoat) the bottom of the hull as it's rubbed right through. Looks awful.
Might need a carb still, and a starter, and it has no exhaust currently. Plus pump housing to be replaced. Good few quid to be spent yet but at least I have everything for the engine itself. Even painted it with real Yamaha engine paint!
Can't wait to have it ready to try - never owned one before, but have boat & kayak and just love being on the sea. Specially living on an island!
Think I had an N64 emulator in it though so I can play waverace for practise! :D
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Another idea I'll throw out there to keep things aligned: angle stock and rollerblade bearings like people use for home built cnc machines:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4A8fxzSV4dw/S6v2n6fl3AI/AAAAAAAAAcc/Uqu6CkX-6_8/s1600/Holes_in_right_place.jpg)
I'd think one at each corner would keep things pretty straight.
Not sure I'd go with this configuration, but you get the idea.
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Another good idea from the look of it thanks.
I've got a load of these bearings left over from building my time lapse rig.
I think they would help smooth it and reduce unwanted movement but have to figure where best to fit them.
Afraid after another day of terrible neck pain, tramadol & valium, my creative mind isn't quite at its best right now!!!
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Well I got the top stops fitted to the rods last night, and also the 'spine' pieces at the back, with angle ally tethers reaching in to the top of the rods too.
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/D9F209E1-F8DC-47FD-A611-1557BF08A166_zpsduybgznf.jpg)
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/85604EB5-A9A6-48D4-B553-A1B23C27AF62_zpsim2m4njg.jpg)
All seemed to be VERY nicely working in terms of stability, except that the bracket holding the top pf the ram then broke (it's a handlebar clamp from a minimoto, made of crappy cast alloy). I'll sort the other one out and refit it.
I just bought some of the drawer runners I described in B&Q so I might add those potentially instead of the rods, OR at the back.
The only real issue the whole mechanism has now, is that it binds in places. The problem is due to tolerances in the assembly of various bits of wood I should have really welded up a box steel frame then added panels afterwards. Will inspect it now and see what spare bearings I've got, and where I can add them to help it run smoothly.
Getting closer to it working nicely though.
I also got the timber I need for the front panel, and seat type parts to a certain extent so I can start measuring and plotting for that too.
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Ok, I've spent the last couple of evenings making a right dog's dinner of this to be honest. I've been going about it all wrong, and in all honesty, probably based around laziness.
I've had the lift motor attached and it was all able to move up & down, albeit a bit jerky and not how I wanted it. So each point I've noticed a problem I've tried to correct, and this has gone on & on over a couple of evenings. I did fit a set of 24" ball bearing drawer runners at the rear as well to help smooth it out. Well, in hindsight, unsurprisingly it's made it all worse.
It suddenly dawned on me (as it should have at the start) that I should not even be considering adding the motor until I know it can move smoothly and freely by hand up & down, otherwise I'm set from the start for a load of hassle, and that's exactly what's happened. Took the motor out and found it was horrible still with bits binding and out of alignment etc.
So tomorrow evening all being well, I'm going back to the start of this slide process. The new drawer runners will be fitted first at the rear, and carefully aligned so that the monitor module A) goes up straight (ie isn't attempting to creep towards one side or the other, and B) that they are nice and parallel to each other, so that it doesn't move freely in one bit but then pinch up further up or down the axis.
Once those are in place and it slides smoothly, I will then be in a position to re-align & re-attach the linear bearings/rods closer to the front of the cab. I presume it will take a bit of mucking about at this stage to get it right but given the time I've wasted already I don't mind. Once they're correctly aligned & in position it should be able to lift up & down freely by hand, without any tight spots. Should also be fairly secure at this point in that it should neither be able to rock side to side, nor tilt front to back since it also has the spines/anchor points etc.
Then, and only then I'll re attach the lift motor, and see what happens. It's so mind numbingly stupid not to have done it this way to begin with that I'm annoyed with myself. Too keen to make it happen without planning it properly.
As usual!!
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Success tonight at last. Top half of cab moves freely up & down by hand & then subsequently by motor. Yahoo!!!
Stops nicely at both ends of the actuator travel and is basically free from side to side wobble, or front to back rocking/tilting. Result!!! Very pleased.
So the next phase is to attempt to make a fold down front panel that houses the seat etc.
Wish me luck, but hopefully I think that's the worst of it done now mechanically speaking. )
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Crester, May I share what I made ? Here (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x190bgh_borne-transformable_videogames)
Since this video, I have added a setting to get the pedals going up
If I would have only one suggestion for this project, it would be about a pico-projector instead of a real screen. Screen has to be too far from the head of the driver. Especially if you use a wide screen.
Regards,
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Thanks for sharing that mate and sorry for the slow response!
I really like that although it's quite different to the way mine will work in a few ways really.
I'm trying to work on the front panel/door section of mine currently but it's not quite as easy as I thought. Only takes one measure/cut of wood to be 1 or 2mm wrong at some point and it can cause s twist that can make everything a massive ballache.
Have limited space for a seat to fold into, so need to put some thought into that. Once I get it mechanically fully functional then I need to figure out where all the electronics will squeeze in.
One thing I'm very curious about with your build if you don't mind clarifying, is in relation to the deployment of the steering wheel. It appears that it powers into position by some means then perhaps locks in place. Could you perhaps explain what mechanism you've used to do this please?
On my original machine, the wheel did a similar thing, albeint fully manually, so was attached to a hinged plate. The front panel opened by hand, the wheel was then brought forwards into position, with the subsequently closed front panel wedging beneath it to secure it in place. Not exactly ingenious but it worked ok.
I've got a second linear actuator but it only has 78mm of travel. I was thinking I can use this to translate to roughly 90 degrees of swinging the wheel forward into position using a lever mechanism but it'll depend on a few things, and even then what I need to figure out is some means of securing it firmly in the 'play' position, which can then easily be released again for returning to the upright cabinet configuration. Any thoughts on this?
Appreciate any info on the way yours is set up anyway as it looks like it moves very positively into place.
Thanks!
Jim
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Hello Jim
Thanks for sharing that mate and sorry for the slow response!
I really like that although it's quite different to the way mine will work in a few ways really.
I'm trying to work on the front panel/door section of mine currently but it's not quite as easy as I thought. Only takes one measure/cut of wood to be 1 or 2mm wrong at some point and it can cause s twist that can make everything a massive ballache.
Have limited space for a seat to fold into, so need to put some thought into that. Once I get it mechanically fully functional then I need to figure out where all the electronics will squeeze in.
This is what I made also... Stupidly, I did not think about wires. It was complicated to deal with that after. It is still a problem
One thing I'm very curious about with your build if you don't mind clarifying, is in relation to the deployment of the steering wheel. It appears that it powers into position by some means then perhaps locks in place. Could you perhaps explain what mechanism you've used to do this please?
You should have a look on the French forum where I described the project (http://www.gamoover.net/Forums/index.php?topic=15776.0) from the begining even if it is not translated. Pictures will be more helpful than the last video as you can not see anything because of wood panels. A First interesting post (http://www.gamoover.net/Forums/index.php?topic=15776.msg213891#msg213891) and the second one (http://www.gamoover.net/Forums/index.php?topic=15776.msg230689#msg230689)
On my original machine, the wheel did a similar thing, albeint fully manually, so was attached to a hinged plate. The front panel opened by hand, the wheel was then brought forwards into position, with the subsequently closed front panel wedging beneath it to secure it in place. Not exactly ingenious but it worked ok.
Sorry but you lost me :'(
I've got a second linear actuator but it only has 78mm of travel.
You want to make it electric ? Nice challenge !!!
I was thinking I can use this to translate to roughly 90 degrees of swinging the wheel forward into position using a lever mechanism but it'll depend on a few things, and even then what I need to figure out is some means of securing it firmly in the 'play' position, which can then easily be released again for returning to the upright cabinet configuration. Any thoughts on this?
This is a must to respect. It must be firmly locked and not moving at all, especially with a strong motor like G25 wheel. I used two cheap components which can be found in every door (sorry but my vocabulary is limited) (http://www.legallais.com/common/images/catalogue/photos/thumbnails/WI372744-500.jpg)
To release it, I tried two diffents things. Firstly, I made a system with a cable between two cheap components. It is explained in the page on the French forum. Was working perfectly ! But after five-six times, it had to be unscrewed to be screwed again.... I tried several things but nothing lasts correctly... I know how to make it definitively fine but from now, it is a big job to modify it so I replaced the system with two, one on each side, pusbutton (see video)
Appreciate any info on the way yours is set up anyway as it looks like it moves very positively into place.
Honestly, from the complete system I made, this is, with the pedals, what makes me the most proud of. I just regret that "three" hands are needed to released it (can be seen on the video : two hands for pushbuttons and one hand, my head, to push on the wheel)
Rgs,
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Thanks for the reply and the links mate, that's great!
I haven't read yet as my iPad wasn't translating but the pictures show a lot of effort!
I kinda wish I'd made a welded frame for this from the outside really. Everything would have been really accurate then and unable to flex.
But yeah, the up/down movement of mine is motorised and works well now, so I'd like to do the same with the wheel if I can.
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Now I have a front cabinet door at last, which folds down ready for a seat to be arranged for it.
It's not the prettiest thing in the world right now but this can be resolved. The width of the front opening in a nuisance as it's wider than most panels I can easily get from B&Q (typically 2 foot wide where this needs to be closer to 32" wide). So i have got some thicker battens running along it to make up the width and fit, and to add strength. Tonight, I plan on dropping the monitor section with the panel down, so that I can figure out how & where the wheel, pedals & seat need to ideally be positioned relative to the screen. Then I can work on adapting them all to fit accordingly.
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/50C572B4-0EBE-473C-A779-01C4A4FBFD7A_zps3jgpdhy9.jpg)
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/05EF2AE3-C255-4F3D-AD2C-F690C5B1FF2B_zps64man3ea.jpg)
Pleased though as it's progress after a while being too crippled to really do anything.
I also need to figure out a bunch of wiring. More on that later though....
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Ok, I've got a provisional attachment of the wheel in position now so it can swing between attached to the front of the control panel, or swing down inside the cabinet for stand up (non driving) mode.
It's a bit crude and nothing in place to secure it at either position yet, plus it's literally just on hinges, not motorised at all, but it works and fits ok etc so is a good starting point.
I need to think about refining this so that it can have the second actuator moving the wheel in & out of position via leverage, and so it locks positively in place once raised.
One thing I also need to figure out is the electrics system for the powered parts to ensure nothing moves at the wrong time (ie leading to the cabinet ripping itself apart etc).
So effectively things like the following:
1) A switch for the front door (seat section) being upright /closed, which disables the entire lift motor circuit if the door is closed.
2) The lift motor is a simple +/- 2 wire input for power/control. It has built in end stops either end so if the power is connected it stops anyway, but I need some sort of switch that will swap the input polarity basically. I could do it with an arduino I suppose with inputs & outputs and motor controllers etc but a simple forwards/backwards rocker type thing that swaps the polarity of the battery wires effectively would do for now. Not sure what the proper name would be for a switch that does that, or that sort of control method etc.
Need to go modify the board the wheel is attached to anyway as it interferes a tiny bit with the lift actuator, so I need to cut a section out and move one of the hinges.
Hoping to replace all that cheap setup with welded box section and bearings though in due course.
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Getting this sodding thing into the house is going to be interesting once it's built. Was hoping to keep it so that it could be assembled in situ as completed modules but not looking that easy to do. ::)
Certainly not fitting any electronics to it until it's in place (other than motor control), which I need to figure out.
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I think this is all I'd need for controlling the direction of the top half of the cabinet actually, linking the power supply to the motor?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201255011472?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201255011472?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649)
Should be the same for the ram that hopefully will move the steering wheel in & out of position too, but I've not got the measurements/angles etc quite right for getting that all figured out just yet.
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I think this is all I'd need for controlling the direction of the top half of the cabinet actually, linking the power supply to the motor?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201255011472?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201255011472?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649)
Should be the same for the ram that hopefully will move the steering wheel in & out of position too, but I've not got the measurements/angles etc quite right for getting that all figured out just yet.
Any double position, double throw switch that can handle the current would do.
The one you linked to is just pre-wired for that purpose. For that price why not.
If you want choreographed movement of multiple things, you'd need a motor controller.
https://www.pololu.com/category/94/pololu-simple-motor-controllers (https://www.pololu.com/category/94/pololu-simple-motor-controllers)
I used one of these for my monitor rotation. It can be controlled via batch file or autohotkey script.
You might have to add a heatsink depending on how much current you're pulling.
If going that route, I'm thinking a switch under a cover wired to your keyboard encoder which triggers the script.
Might require an emergency stop. :D
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Thanks - have got an estop I could use from my partly finished CNC machine conversion.
I've bought a couple of those switches but unwired and I'll add that myself as there didn't seem to be pre wired ones in the UK so I'd have been waiting weeks.
Yeah I use Pololus on my 3D printer and on a timelapse rail i built so I like those, although with these being normal 2 wire DC motors I think I need a more basic DC controller like LN988 or whatever the last one I got was....
I can then use an arduino to control the timing of each event potentially rather than have to press each button manually. The difference will be the seat section can probably be released and lower smoothly down on gas struts but will have to be lifted by hand back up again.
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Just picked up a really cheap nasty "Xenta" 5.1 computer system for £20 which I can set it up initially with.
It functions, and it might be the case that I swap out a couple of components to make it a bit better but anyway - it'll do to start with.
I've got brackets made for both ends of the steering column ram, so am going to attempt to screw those in place in such a way that will allow it to move the wheel to either end position, ie retracted in the cabinet, or extended out in drive position.
I need something that will lock it securely in place once it's in drive mode though. Not sure what would be best yet.
One step at a time....
Once the steering ram works, I will move attention to the front panel, and get it build better & figure out how best to include the seat etc.
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Ok, the wheel is motorised now to lift and lower in/out of position. It needs something to easily clamp once it reaches it's top point though.
Not sure what. Would be easy to have a strong magnet but that's not good for a controlled or electrical release to lower it again, so I'm not sure. Some sort of locking bolt maybe on a solenoid or worm drive.
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words are boring.
video would be entertaining. :)
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words are boring.
video would be entertaining. :)
+1 real and fun mechanical gizmos are one place where the movie is always better than the book.
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Point taken but it looks deathly unexciting at the moment when stuff moves guys. Trust me.
Specially that it's running on a really weak motorbike battery so stuff takes AGES to move.
Last night I rebuilt the door panel but there's a clearance issue underneath as it opens.
I need raise the rest of the carcass half an inch off the ground and use that the stiffen it all too. It doesn't help that my shed floor is wooden and flexes, so one moment everything fits perfectly, then next there's a half inch gap somewhere that wasn't there before. Infuriating.
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Think I just got a more robust sound system for free actually with proper separate channel inputs and much more oomph.
Teah it's way better suited actually as it'll do an input for each sound card outpuy. Only problem is there's way of setting the source on it without the remote I think.
Wil try to get the issue with the door ironed out today, and if I can get that done and gas struts fitted then I' try to do a video of some sort ok?
Don't get excited though. It looks sh1t at the moment guys....
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Ok no video yet (I lied, but only because the pissant motorbike battery doing the job is so slow, I couldn't bear it). I've been repair charging/desulphating etc a bigger one for days now ready to see this stuff move a bit quicker only to find it was slower still.
Anyway, we now have a fold down door panel, which includes a rudimentary seat (quite comfy but no back on it yet), motorised steering wheel positioner (not quite perfect, and thing stiffness in the bracing is an issue here, but mostly it works), and motorised up/down control of the main top half of the cabinet (ie monitor and controls etc).
Up position:
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/0BEAC424-381D-43BC-888C-DB410D88B52E_zpskz4knt8c.jpg)
Down position:
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/18A660BD-0976-4DEA-ABD4-F2A198CA18CC_zpsgquvb4dv.jpg)
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/96273A00-2C30-4D5E-B6FB-7259A14B8CCC_zps1sh2yoec.jpg)
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/A07DAAAF-B3C0-4022-ACCB-10E289966181_zpscgay826l.jpg)
Sorry the pics are crap but it's only a carcass of a machine still and surrrounded by other bits of wood that serve only to camouflage the real machine itself.
It's real and it works how I wanted it to though importantly. But it needs a lot of refinement, and tweaking to make it nice and fluid/co-ordinated etc. And I hate all that ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- I really do.
The wheel is actually just nice positioning relative to the seat even if you can't see that here. What I wanted though (and will find tricky) will be side panels on the fold down seat section. I thing they'd add to the appearance a lot, but might not be as easy to implement as I'd hoped.
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Looks like solid progress.
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Thanks mate - all this initial getting stuff aligned & smooth etc is an absolute nightmare that I never had to contend with last time round. So it's taken forever just to get a workable carcass, then once the motor stuff is in I have to suss out how best to fit averything around that.
Another issue I've got is the speed the motors move. I'm about to post a video once I get it edited & uploaded etc, and no, it's not exciting, but both the wheel and the lift are soooooo slow. I can live with it but it'd be great to have it go faster. The problem with the main lift ram is it's 24v rated and I'm putting 12 into it. Obviously it ain't gonna run well at half its rated voltage. Not sure about the steering ram but that's real slow to so I may try that on 18 or 24 with a drill battery or something. If they both work great on 24v then I'll invest in one of those cheap 24v PSUs like you use for 3D printers etc. Should provide quite a few amps too.....
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Ok, here's the first video - as explained in the comments, it's real slow as it's running on 12v instead of the 24v it should be using. Also, I stopped it about an inch below the top so just under full height.
Sorry it's not filmed from further back for better perspective:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joGhnfCBuY8#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joGhnfCBuY8#ws)
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Warning - this could kill you of sheer boredom, but people wanted to see videos of this motorised wheel in action moving in & out of place. As you can see it is VERY slow because the motor is running I think half the correct voltage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9WpiWKxyYg#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9WpiWKxyYg#ws)
I think one of these is what I need but no idea how much current these motors (either of them) are trying to pull when in use and can't find out much about them.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-12V-24V-5V-Universal-Regulated-Switching-Power-Supply-for-LED-Strip-CCTV-UK-/291087849273?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&var=&hash=item43c6301739 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-12V-24V-5V-Universal-Regulated-Switching-Power-Supply-for-LED-Strip-CCTV-UK-/291087849273?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&var=&hash=item43c6301739)
Also be point where it joins the control panel is very stiff/jerky because there are some bits that are slightly in the way, and need adjusting. But it's there, and it all kinda works:
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This is the temporary seat when folded down. It's not very attractive The curve at the front is to accommodate fitting against the steering wheel.
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/8c3ffe08-e149-48a4-8d77-0c166d837cf9_zpsavxppxeu.jpg)
You can see where the pedals sit. I need them to be able to move closer for the kids, so like a rail system but with stop points. Not sure what is best for that. Could just use some rails and a peg I guess, but something better would be nice.
I need at least some form of low seat back, or if nothing else, some sturdy mount points where an external piece can slot in. I May be able to have something that folds down flat, and would include the rear speakers and a hearest. That would be idea but I just don't know yet what will fit.
But here it is all folded up, wheel moved back, monitor up, and front seat panel closed. Ready for normal upright mode (sans control panel of course).
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/310504A2-B94F-46EC-8FBC-EB45FA7DAA20_zpsy2gxk0fz.jpg)
So yeah, it's miles from finished or even usable yet, but I'm pretty pleased to have got the motor sections working well enough, and so everything fits.
The next issue I have is to prevent the front door panel from being dropped when opened. It needs to lower down slow and smooth, and I'm not sure best how.
I have some tailgate struts from a car but because they work on compression, it'd need to have them go to a separate piece on the floor or something.
Really, I want like the opposite of a tailgate strut, where it's normally compressed, and needs tension to smoothly extend it out. I know you can buy them but I think they're big $$$.
Any suggestions?!
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Somehow in the door panel I want it to include upright panels (running front to back as you're sitting in it), and to be able to conceal or at least house flight controls too, for flight sims, or Elite etc.
Plus, I haven't even thought yet where a slide out keyboard will fit in with this entire design. All suggestions welcome!!!
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Also, in the last 10 minutes I just solved (again at a very crude level) the seat back problem.
Here you can see a makeshift back/shoulder rest (which can also house rear speakers when made properly) folded flat against the back of the cabinet door:
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/389CCB83-B9B3-4250-BEBA-7AFB30980FFE_zpsyceenaev.jpg)
Now folded up Into position. Yeah ok it looks a bit like granny's rocking chair but just wanted to check something along these lines would be feasible.
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/01958109-0332-4B49-99D7-862DA37839DC_zpsyntik2lh.jpg)
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/92DA0B37-0B85-4B3B-AC71-4377B9D74A5D_zps2pybvdfx.jpg)
Pleased with how this is coming together now guys.
Setting aside the appalling current visuals/aesthetics, I'd appreciate useful constructive criticism or ideas on how to do certain bits better etc?
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Honestly, I put videos up and no-ones interested now!!
Told you they'd be boring. Lol!!
Working on the seat back arrangement today and then I MIGHT consider bring it into the house. Might be a bit premature but needs to be moved before the weight gets too much. But ideally while there's not still tons of sawing & drilling to be done.... Difficult balance. Goddam cold out there today though, but I'm back at work tomorrow so it'd be nice to get something useful done.
My friend says he thinks he has a 2 foot long actuator at work that's damaged (12v) that I can have. If he has then that would open & close the front door, meaning almost full automation, which is more than I intended. Would be cool though!!
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Honestly, I put videos up and no-ones interested now!!
Told you they'd be boring. Lol!!
I enjoyed them, just don't spend as much time on BYOAC over the weekend.
It's like watching a space craft slowly move into position for a launch.
Not exciting in itself, but exciting in showing what's to come.
Automated stuff rules.
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Hello Cretster
Impressive job ! I would like to see more ;)
I though about a pinball mecanisum (not sure of the word) which could be use to loack the wheel in place. You just need to power the coil and than, the lock will be opened.
I will post a picture in order to help my English ;) You can install one on each side and get an easy automatism
(http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/wms11/wpcflip1.jpg)
Regarding the breake and up pedals, I have used this cheap component which is used normally in bed actuator (http://s2.lmcdn.fr/multimedia/711400402241/57545358b237/produits/ferrure-de-reglage-pour-tetes-et-pieds-de-lit-330-mm.jpg) The lengh you can get is about 5''. I have used a set of two. One to move it horizontally and one to move it to the top, for kids also
Never heard about 24VDC (with high amperage) cheap power supply but I know that you can chain two "classic" AT(X) power supply easily. The only thing to take care is about external boxes that should not be connected together.
Good luck for the rest
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Thanks for the comments and suggestions!
I now got the 24v PSU for the rams and they move TONS better now. Major improvement. It's in the house now, and tonight I'm collecting a 3 foot long ram to use for opening/closing the front door panel.
Getting close now but I have to re-design the seat to make it more comfy, look better, and look less like granny's rocking chair. Plus to incorporate the rear speakers etc.
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Ok - really need to redesign the seat somehow for more comfort. Will have to figure that out. Maybe it can slide forwards or something, with different lock points.
Think I've got the bits I need now for making the screen tilt down a little too.
Have picked up the big ram for the door/seat but not had a chance to see if it will actually fit in there yet!!!
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Maybe move the pedals to the back of the cab?
I see you might have to cut them in half to straddle the ram though.
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Not sure why you mean about moving the pedals sorry bud? To what end? Do you mean for this new lift ram? It was going to just go on one side of the door, but to be honest, it's too big and I can't see any way I can actually use the damn thing. :(
It's about 3foot closed, and extends 24"- just can't find any angle where it can possibly fit inside the cabinet and do what's needed sadly. Shame since it was free.
It's feasible it could fit eternally on the side of the cabinet that's more or less against the wall (so mainly not seen) but I wanted to keep everything hidden ideally.
Will run me another £50 ore so to buy a suitable smaller one at least and budget is tight.
For now anyway, I want to try to make the seat more comfy and look better. I've got the monitor to pivot so it can tilt forward as required now at least.
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Not sure why you mean about moving the pedals sorry bud? To what end?
You mentioned wanting to make the seat slide, so I thought you didn't have enough leg room.
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Ahh I see. No the leg room is mostly ok really for me (I'm 5'10") but it'd be nice to be able to adjust both the seat and pedal positions as required for other people.
Ideally, a subframe from a car seat would do as it has the adjustment handle and rails combined to allow it to easily move and lock in any position.
Not sure if there's a (cheap) readily available alternative though as that'd seem a bit overkill to fit under the pedals if nothing else.
Seriously considering putting that big ram on the outside of the cabinet now just to be done with it. Mostly it'll be hidden anyway behind the cabinet, and easy to replace at a later date with a smaller internal one if funds permit I guess.
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Been a major seat redesign today so some pics later hopefully, and progress.
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Ok, it's not really pretty right now, nor physically finished but still, you probably get the idea. Here's 'normal' arcade mode (screen obviously missing!):
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/48F6A01E-97C4-4B1F-94E8-FC6640A6A550_zpsvcjjmhu0.jpg)
Then Driving mode. Front folds down, & seat folds up, Steering wheel motors itself out into place, screen & controls drop down 13" lower to suit being sat down. Pedals fold into place:
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/3A5A0082-5912-49AD-B893-8A5463F06AE8_zpsolh1m7qb.jpg)
Front panel folded down ready for the seat to be positioned and the 'spoiler' raised:
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/529EC747-5D71-4DC5-B7D2-5EEE647B29AB_zps079eaec5.jpg)
This bit has to stay folded out of the way while the door is up, then folds into position to make the front half of the seat like this:
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/AB8594BE-8E1D-431E-84E9-91FCD710852B_zpswsp4qwfm.jpg)
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I realise how horrible and crude the construction all looks currently but I need to make sure everything all can function how I want it to before I spend any effort at all in making it look nice.
Two things I have to figure out also:
Where to have a keyboard hidden that can ideally come out from somewhere and stay in front of me (say I'm sitting playing a key intensive game like Elite - needs to be in easy reach), and flight controls.
I can either have a stick that recesses beneath the seat and comes out centrally on a rail, or each side of a hotas system installed on fold up side arms from the rear 'spoiler' so they sit nicely in front perhaps?
All suggestions welcome!!
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On another note, I found that the subwoofer and integral amp etc was no way going to fit in the based of the cabinet due to moving stuff (motor, folding pedals etc).
So I've made a new sub box a bit smaller to house the components but it's still gonna be a huge squeeze. Sure the acoustics of the sub won't be ideal, but let's face it, it's for video games. If it goes thud thud boom, it'll do!! Gonna try to fit that now and wire in speakers for a quick test of some sort, then call it a night.
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Ok, I got a new subwoofer enclosure built that JUST fits in!!
Annoyingly as I don't have the remote for this system I have no control other than volume, and bass is too weak considering it's a potent sub & amp.
I think because the satellite speakers are not the matching ones for the system they are too sensitive so are louder than the sub comparitively, and I've no means of balancing that out. Can buy a remote for about £16 so it might have to be done so I can mess with the settings.
Good to have working 5.1 setup, although I'm not sure how I choose this for instance when listening to music or watching a video. Is mostly just using the front speakers, even though the realtek software correctly has a 5.1 install setup with all the test tones working right etc.
Tomorrow, I will attempt to wire up switches for the cabinet and steering motors, and add limit switches where needed. Then I can get on and play. :D
Pleased though - it's got convoluted making things fit but I now have a(n ugly) transforming upright to sitdown race cab, where the kids can reach the controls, once it's in use, I'll have to think about an arduino to control the transformation from one mode to the other, because things MUST be done in a certain order to avoid broken-ness.....
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That's the best stand-up two player to sit-down driver I've ever seen! Lol, it's also the only one but I'm really impressed that you're getting it together and I like your detailed posts. Sure it's a little rough right now but that's all the fun. Keep at it. I'll keep watching.
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I love that comment, thanks mate.
Kids aren't here today so I can concentrate on trying to figure out a wiring diagram for getting it all moving correctly and in the right order to avoid collisions etc!!
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Need to use wiring like this for the motor controls I think:
http://www.instructables.com/id/HOW-TO%3a-Wire-a-DPDT-rocker-switch-for-reversing-po/?ALLSTEPS (http://www.instructables.com/id/HOW-TO%3a-Wire-a-DPDT-rocker-switch-for-reversing-po/?ALLSTEPS)
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Video time!
http://youtu.be/Rv3TSDObEyk (http://youtu.be/Rv3TSDObEyk)
Three switches added to the transformer cabinet (for now - more will follow).
The first is an 'arming' switch which provides 24v power to both of the other switches, one for each lift motor.
The left rocker switch then can be used to either raise or lower the steering wheel/column inside the cabinet or into racing position.
The right one is for raising or lowering the top half of the cabinet itself, ie mainly the monitor, so it is lowered for racing games.
Yes it all looks horrible & scruffy sorry!
The main lift motor has end switches integral but I don't think the ram for the steering column does, so I need to fit some. I also need to fit additional switches to ensure that things are in their correct respective positions before they will be able to move for safety and for the longevity of the machine (ie not ripping itself apart!!!).
But it works at this level now, so once the electronics (PC and buttons/controls) are up and running we can test this out!
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It's ALIVE!
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Lots of wiring tidying to be done next. Most stuff is working though.
I just tried running a race on Dirt 3 and it keeps freezing up for some reason. Now I remember why I hate PC games!
The Nvidia Experience thing has automatically selected all the video options according to my hardware, but every 5-10 seconds the game freezes for a second or so. Infuriating. Presume something is set too high but I've no idea of the kind of order of weeding out graphics/performance related issues in games.
Surround sound works well when the game plays, there's something not quite right about the seating position but not sure what... More playtime will figure it out I'm sure.
And I'm getting some terrible evil thoughts on buying a Hotas Warthog or Rhino flight system for playing Elite.
Seat all needs padding etc too, but this of course will affect how far it can all fold up etc.
So it's sort of up and running but still TONS to do. No idea where I'll fit the Xbox in it either. Might even have to be up near the top of the cabinet perhaps. Who knows....
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Aaargh! Since I spent half of yesterday neatening things a bit and routing wires away where they should be etc I find I mysteriously have a fault with the rear left channel on the amp unit somehow horrible loud crackling & hissing coming from it regardless of any input signal to the amp on that channel. Think something just died, so after all that hassle building a new sub box to fit inside and house the amp it's gone bad. :( :( :hissy:
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Ongoing audio problems with it today alas, but on the plus side, the boy has just enjoyed some Outrun, Turbo Outrun, and Chase HQ - so we can call it a success.
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/F097068C-AE94-4528-BB87-0AC99B778EFC_zpse7lmh5ly.jpg)
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/6723A51D-285D-4657-81C3-D7A38BD6DC48_zps44mfx4oe.jpg)
I've managed to add in a slide out keyboard that rests on the lap when extended (perfect for flight sims I guess), and also get the 360 installed and get a quick lap of Forza in, using the built in wheel & pedals.
Not a lot more to be done really other than the audio fixing, then onto ergonomics and cosmetics.......
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I'm impressed. Even without the automation...if you had to fold everything up by hand, I'd be impressed.
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Thanks mate. Few things to refine before I start cosmetics, changing the sound system is one. Putting padding on the seat is priority though - realise how sore my arse is after days of just sitting on a bare piece of wood while working on it!!! Need something that's thin but fairly firm to then cover over with vinyl or something. Also, would love to automate the door as the whole sequence could then be programmable effectively.
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Ok, I've added some basic seat padding and lumbar support and BOY what a difference it makes to comfort!!!
Ordered a Logitech Z506 sound system for it too, which should be a huge improvement.
Now I'm still fighting with what set of flight controls to buy (like a used X45 for £50 or something, or a rhino for £220!!!) - this will continue but in the meantime I have more issues f ergonomics to address.
I've found that when playing racers that the wheel is in the wrong position for me. I.e. if I sit back against the seat properly for comfort, my legs are fine for the pedals, but the wheel is almost out of reach, so I can't get suitable comfort.
What I'm considering as a solution is to change 2 things.
1) The existing lift actuator moves 13" vertically. I can get an 18" actuator for about £50, which would enable more variance on upper & lower height limits, which would be better for neck angle to the screen, but what I'm planning is for the 18" actuator to move the monitor/control panel/wheel section DIAGONALLY down & forwards. It'd give extra travel downwards where needed for the kids, but also if it's moving at an angle would bring the wheel closer, most importantly.
2) Secondly, this would free up the existing 13" actuator which can then be used to open & close the main front panel, meaning the whole process (beside the seat folding up) is then powered.
Will be a ballache when I just got it all working nicely, but it has to be comfortable or I won't want to play it for more than 10 minutes at a time, so doesn't seem much worse to do. I have to figure out if it would cause problems for other areas of the build.
Might not be so easy to rebuild so it moves at an angle or it might be easy - not sure yet....
Thoughts?
Or other means of extending the wheel I'm not sure about but it basically needs doing.
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Here's a vague idea what I mean, so instead of the top half moving vertically it would come down at an angle.
The only thing I'm not 100% sure about would be the stability of the top half without some sort of additional guides or rails beside the actuator itself and the drawer sliders on each side....
Could try it and see I guess.....
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/8103B5BF-CCB6-416F-834D-1BC9FDBE5168_zpsdyshyaaf.jpg)
I suppose you'd want the actuator more toward the front of the cab (central ish) to balance the weight load and make it smoother on the drawer rails instead of them twisting. But this could cause issues with the door closing etc....
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Well aside from anything else tonight, I've swapped out the CPU so my hackintosh desktop now has the i5 2500k and the arcade now has the i7 2600k as was the opposite previously.
I'm not sure I'll see much practical difference in game performance as I've no idea if games really use hyperthreading at all, and while the benchmark between the two CPUs suggest about a 32% increase in performance with the i7 I'm not sure if I'll really notice anything.
We'll see.
I'm trying to download Elite at the moment onto the arcade but my broadband is horrific. Maybe in the morning it'll be done......
So am waiting for new sound system, trying to restrain buying a decent flight system, thinking about rebuilding the cab to slide forward with the wheel etc.
Trying to do one thing at at a time though. Need to modify some wiring so that the main power on button and some USB ports etc are accessible easily.
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Right - I've completely dismantled the cabinet.
Not happy about the wheel position so I figure I need the top half to slide forwards as it descends. Not as easy as I anticipated due to space restrictions but hey, it just adds to the challenge I guess!!
So I should get busy with it before I have too much beer and put something together in a horribly wrong way.....
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Well, mission accomplished (mostly). Cabinet is rebuild and simplified (Meaning more space for fitting things in it!!).
Now as it descends to racer mode it also moves forward to give probably 4" closer reach to the steering wheel when it's dropped for racing. MUCH more comfortable being able to sit back and not have arms rigid out in front as it gets tiresome pretty quick like that. Lot of effort for a small change, and tweaks to be done, but big improvement! Took most of the weekend.
Pics to follow.
Also, today I received the Logitech Z506 speaker system and for the cost & size of it - DAMN!!! The sub is perfect for the space it needs to occupy, and I like the sound from it all.
Only problem is the stupid shape of the satellite speakers, and the fact they have no means of mounting to anything. Will mean instant sabotage when I attach them. :(
And the Thrustmaster Warthog should be here by end of the week too. So I'd better stop talking and carry on building.....!
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Now how the hell am I going to make these awkward shaped buggers integrate nicely anywhere?
Didn't think of that. Acoustic cloth would be a solution except that it'd cover the main volume control & power switch on the right speaker. Bah.
Any suggestions guys????
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/D4C48772-B2D5-4098-BC26-FC98DD0A4BD5_zpsuquip3tg.jpg)
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Warthog is arriving on Thursday! Colour be excited as all hell. Especially now I've started to look into TrackIR, and voice commands for Elite.....
This evening since I'm still undecided about speaker hacking/glueing/rebuilding etc I'm doing bits of wiring and installing the Xbox 360 etc down out of harm's way. Doing little tweaks here & there for where I've noticed annoyances.
Things like the PC was just balanced before on some uneven bits of cabinet but now has a proper shelf. The PSU for the lift rams has been secured down instead of flapping about etc. This way hopefully I will be able to at least do some slight mitigation to the wiring horror that will lurk inside this cabinet.
Holy sheeit though when I read this warthog hotas is about 8KG!! It's gonna be fun fitting it in somehow.....
In the meantime - still after suggestions on what to do about these front pair of speakers. Do I
1) Gut them, integrate the (single) driver into the marquee panel with a small enclosure behind of approx same volume as their real ones (easy to do) + reposition the volume & power button to the main control panel?
2) Keep them intact but effectively glued in place behind a mesh panel, with acoustic cloth over it, and again with the volume & power controls removed & repositioned?
I think Option 1 is the better option for neatness. The centre speaker can stay how it is on the top edge of the cab. I like how it looks and it fits just fine.
Rears - meh - not too worried for now, but I will need to attenuate them somehow presumably, since my head will be right next to them and about 4 feet away from the fronts/centre.
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For the speakers, you could do an acrylic marquee with proper size holes cut for each speaker and the volume control area.
If all the edges were sanded round and polished, I think it would look good. The speakers would have to be pressed up against it.
It would be even cooler if a limited section in the middle was lit and faded to dark around the speakers.
...or you could do something similar in wood (bondo'd & painted glossy) and put a smaller in the middle.
....or just rip the volume control board out of the right speaker. The only thing that needs to be running back to the housing is speaker wire.
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Cheers for the suggestions.
Yes I'll have an acrylic marquee on the front in due course, but the front speakers will actually be downward firing behind that.
I've dismantled the main control one and removed the driver & controls etc from the enclosure. Will be easy enough to give it's own enclosure, as per the left one too.
I had to pick up some pieces of wood today to make a suitable panel for this placing them.
Picked up the warthog today and ye gads what a monster!!! :o
The box it came in was huge, and no wonder why! Can't believe the size of the base plate for the stick. This will take a little figuring out in terms of where it can fit in!!
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My sugestion is to open the speaker, get the potentiometer out of the box --- increase length of wires and attach it somewhere else more practical.... It's so easy to install acoustic cloth compare to anything else... Focus on more important thing ! We want automatic device !!! >:D
You can solve the hole using hot glue and a piece of plastic/wood or whatever... You do not seems to need advises on that :cheers:
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Thanks mate - have already stripped out the speaker. :)
I might actually use the cones from the old system I had, but it depends if the impedence matches, and I still don't know how close the sensitivity would be (ie they might be louder or quieter for same volume setting). Would make life easier though.
Anyway, I have a plan for the warthog throttle position. It is temporarily screwed to the floor just to test it fits when I shut the door. It fits.
So now it can sit there but needs to rise up maybe 8-12 inches and move a couple inches to the left ideally so it's not in the way of my left leg when I sit, but is in perfect reach for my arm.
Approx on the floor here, but will actually be closer to camera by a couple of inches or so.
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/A929129B-59C2-4D0F-A85D-594119EAC691_zpshs9ypa04.jpg)
I am trying to thing of a levering/folding mechanism that will allow me to do this?
Ignore the stick - it's just sitting there while I try to figure out where to fit it!! I might use drawer rails that come out from above the Xbox 360 so it can stay upright. I don't want it to be folded like the throttle, because all the time while the door is closed and cabinet upright, the stick will be on its side which will affect the springs etc over time.
I need the throttle I guess to have legs like this thing
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Metal-folding-computer-desk-laptop-table-black-and-red-for-choose-sofa-and-bed-and-office/1017201090.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Metal-folding-computer-desk-laptop-table-black-and-red-for-choose-sofa-and-bed-and-office/1017201090.html)
But where I can lock in different positions to get the most comfy position, and also something to allow it to rotate a little maybe.
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Ok - lots of progress over the weekend. Some setbacks too....
I now have everything (except a keyboard - I do have an on screen trackball one at least of for now) installed so the cabinet will fold away between driver and upright.
It's rough and needs a lot of refining but it's together and it works, and that includes the new addition of the warthog setup.
I can't do an overall pic just yet until I've cleared a ton of stuff from the room but will do. Here are some others:
This is the front panel folded down from the cabinet, but not unfolded itself. You can see the stick and throttle where they are hidden. They just miss the subwoofer/amp, and the xbox360 when the door is shut.
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/C47B31D2-E8C9-4F52-B9FA-7E567D1E069E_zps4wjhm7iy.jpg)
Warthog throttle opened up:
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/6866AE50-4F6A-454A-99AA-693468C4E6E7_zpsbz86byvz.jpg)
To do this I had to modify the tightening knobs on the articulated arm. I could not get them tight enough by hand to keep it steady due to the throttle weight.
So I modified them with thermoplastic, which sets rather like nylon:
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/6EAB6E37-BDC5-492A-AAD2-AC5C356FA8B0_zpsxlaisxye.jpg)
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/93A0AE7D-5322-4490-8D7D-A5F7699E2A83_zpsgybmr7cb.jpg)
This let me tighten them enough to keep it still.
Here's the stick unfolded. It won't stay unsupported. It's just too heavy given the leverage its got but I actually prefer this as it comes to rest on your knee and it's ideal.
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/8396E177-4D59-4F87-AA71-CE964FDB68BA_zps7fxeeed0.jpg)
And here you can see it how it folds away:
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/C5BF4685-26B6-44CB-B16E-2C782225DABF_zpsrp6brmch.jpg)
A view from behind the seat.
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/3C353890-89F0-4D48-A78D-A334BA31F07D_zps5h7zyr43.jpg)
It's a cramped cockpit for sure, but the hotas throttle tilts out of the way for driving games, and is a tolerable position for flying.
The stick arm needs more rigidity and I'm not sure the best options for that.
Everything is roungh but works and is playable. Although I broke my cronusmax (shut the cabinet with it still plugged in - crunch), and drilled through the PSU of the Logitech sound system so it now has a sony laptop brick powering it!!
Main problem now is refining it and adding clamps/stoppers/catches/magnets etc to keep things in place where they should be until you WANT them to move.
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A terrible thing happened last night while doing the tedious job of cable tidying/arranging. My glue gun broke.
We've spent many good years today but all good things must come to an end I suppose. Will have to get another on the way home to continue the tidying process tonight.
I did get a little bit of Elite tutorial practise in though last night and it really is nice to place with this arrangement and the warthog. Need to improve the comfort of the seat a little though for longer periods 'in the saddle', which will require checking how much space I've got etc.
One day, if I can be arsed, I want to rebuild this cabinet, but slightly wider and deeper, so the space constraints aren't quite so tight, and it can be ergonomically a bit nicer.
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Well I've ordered a bundle of little lever roller switches to put in various places which will control flow of power to various parts of the machine, so will prevent any motors running if the front panel is closed, or will not allow the monitor section to descend unless the steering wheel is extended out etc etc.
Should avoid any errors of concentration which end in broken parts. It already has a master flip switch for the power to the motors for safety.
I've also bought some electro magnets (3x 25kg hold each) so that I can use 2 of them (one either side of the wheel) to keep it held tightly in position, as it's prone to a bit pf wobbling around when raised in position. I think 50kg of holding force should be enough to keep it solid until it's time to fold back down.
Really need to find a better means of stabilising the stick mechanism though to keep it locked in one position. Not sure how as it's heavy and has a lot of leverage but we'll think on that...
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So, upright mode for 'normal' games:
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/30DF14FE-B58D-4D48-8109-42BAC34432BC_zpsrezi2aw6.jpg)
Wheel raised up, monitor lowered (note height difference against set of drawers), and front door folded down:
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/D53107A7-36E9-4CE6-BC77-2F59BEE9AE6E_zpsdd8eccqy.jpg)
Seat folded up into position, and warthog throttle raised:
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/BDACDF5D-5630-4280-BBD6-43A74CAF3BF3_zpsfie45ze9.jpg)
Slightly ropey quality player's eye view with Elite running:
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/Cret/507E8A2D-A304-4250-8A00-6CFDEA1C7067_zpsp2ilrssh.jpg)
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Still waiting for some bits.
Need to tidy up the room a bit now before I get divorced.
Want to add a USB hub into the seat base, with an holder/charger for phone and another for ipad, specifically so the latter can be positioned to be useful for referring to instructions etc.
Anyone know if an ipad can be used as a touch keyboard input for a PC somehow??!! Would be useful if it's possible.
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I like the choice of movie on the first pic. I think that's a couple minutes before he kills your avatar right?
It looks like the cabinet has come to a really good proof of concept/prototype stage, it could be pretty awesome with a clean new finish.
I don't remember the the app but it is certainly possible to use an iPad as a touchpad and keyboard for a PC. I used to do it for my HTPC until I got a wireless keyboard that has honestly been a much better solution.
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Thanks mate - yeah that's right. I'm a bit sort of 'obsessed' with that film as the best (but one of the cheesiest) action movies ever so the original cab was themed on it.
I had a second smaller monitor that would play it automatically on start up.
Will do some searching for that software - it'd be easier to have a holder/ dock thing for the ipad to use it as a keyboard and second independent screen than to fit in a normal keyboard now.
Don't get excited about this thing looking pretty any time soon though guys as that's always last on the list for me (I suck at that), but I want to get it just right first and use it a while before I consider aesthetics.
Am wondering what alternatives I can use as lockable/multi position arms for the Warthog like maybe something using tripod ball heads, or an arm that's a bit like an ATAT's leg, but lockable at different angles. Hard to know what to search for so I'm just typing in variations of phrases on google for likely looking sturdy kit. I haven't searched for ATAT's leg though - it could be a euphemism for all I know!
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Roccat can simulate a touchpad for your game. I don't know about the keyboard though.
as for the Warthog, some elite players are using heavy duty velcro. YMMV.
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I like you Cretster...and I like what you are doing here :D
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Thanks mate - that's very kind of you. I'm afraid my builds will never come close to the prettiness & professionalism of many others, but I like to think that they sort of make up a little bit by way of being 'different'. :D
Roccat can simulate a touchpad for your game. I don't know about the keyboard though.
as for the Warthog, some elite players are using heavy duty velcro. YMMV.
Cool - thanks for that. Found an app that lets me use it as an RDP type mouse & keyboard too, so that might be handy.
New (replacement for smashed one) cronusmax arrived today, so I foresee some Forza testing happening this evening!
Will be interesting to see if the warthog controls get in the way at all when playing a driver. I don't like the fact the wheel has to be out while doing flight games but when the monitor is dropped there's not sufficient room in the cab for the wheel to go inside it, alas. Can't have everything though I suppose! (Mental note made for future build....)
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I see I'm not the only crazy person trying to driving cabinet into a flight sim cabinet. :cheers:
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Will have to look at your project and see!
But if you have a driving one to begin with that's a big headstart. Mine changes from standup to driver/flight and back again to standup.
It hasn't been easy and plenty of room for improvement, specially in respect of comfort!!!!
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I took a long break from doing anything with it (work, kids.. "life"... etc), but I've been making some progress lately. I'll try and get some more recent pics up today in my thread.
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I know the feeling - I've been doing this in the evenings after the kids are in bed basically. Not easy!!
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Electromagnets arrived today so we can get the wheel really locked in position hopefully now!
Another thing I need to do fairly urgently I think is put stoppers in position for where the cabinet stops in the lower position, as far forward as possible to take stress of it all. The front of it is supported when the door is shut but not when it's lowered and I think it's slowly bending bits. Not good.
May also get the mic positioned better tonight one way or another.
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Electromagnets are now fitted for holding the steering - 2 observations:
1) They get very hot when they've been left on for some time!
2) 25kg holding strength each - my arse!!!! :censored:
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Good to know. I considered using an electromagnetic clutch off an AC compressor to switch between 270 degree and freewheeling 360 degree wheel types.
Never got much farther than determining it required more current than I wanted to bother with handling.
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Well these claim to be 8 watts (or 6 maybe) at 12v so not hugely powerful but state 25kg lifting strength. Even with both attached its relatively easy to 'unclip' the wheel as it were, but they still hold it fairly steady. I think a system them momentarily moves a bolt into position, then back again if you can reverse it (or retract from the opposite side) would be much better as it'd avoid keeping them on for long periods. Not sure if the heat can cause a problem and I hadn't timed how long they were on but might test that a bit tonight.
Too hot to touch though, which generally isn't a great thing.
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Maybe you can try to supply those with 9 volts ?
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They'd be weaker though. I think maybe add a timer to the circuit or something.
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Just did a few races on Forza and it's tiring on the arms so something (the wheel I guess) is still not in the right position.
Bit difficult to do a lot about it at this stage so it might just be something I have to get used to.
Also, I'm not getting any force feedback through the logitech wheel I'm using via Cronusmax to play forza on the xbox 360. I'm sure it did work at some point so probably a setting but it's hard to use without it getting stiffer to turn as you drive faster.
Elite is awesome to play on this, although I just haven't learned all the controls by a long stretch so more messing about than actually playing it properly!