Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: Slugworth on August 31, 2014, 06:37:08 pm
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Alright, I'm starting to fill up my virtual shopping cart, and am ready to decide on some joysticks. I'm going to have 2 8-way joysticks, and 1 dedicated 4-way joystick. After reading through the forums, I'd guess I'm leaning towards the Happ 8-Way Competition, but just wanted to ask for some opinions first to make sure I'm not missing anything.
Since i'll have a dedicated 4 way I don't have to worry about a 8/4 way joystick... I'll be playing all sorts of games. Fighters, shmups, brawlers, NBA Jam, etc. Just need a good "all purpose" joystick. Sounds like the Happ Competition probably fits this bill, but I'm new to this hobby and probably don't realize all the options that are out there.
One last thing -- I plan on making my CP out of 3/4" plywood and using vinyl art on the top of it. I don't know if this 'depth' makes a difference in selecting a joystick. I'd like to mount underneath and don't have much experience with tools so I don't plan on routing any additional space out. (if this causes problems, I suppose I could always return the 3/4" board and try and get something thinner?)
Thanks in advance.
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definitely the happ competition in my opinion, BUT, like so many things these days we have some people saying the later 'made in china' version of this joystick isnt as good as the original 'not made in china' happ competitions. see the video below for more on this. the solution would be, to buy an IL EURO Competition joystick instead, but of course they are more expensive..
http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/323-il-eurostick-joystick (http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/323-il-eurostick-joystick)
http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=260347 (http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=260347)
http://youtu.be/LV2CgxSUirI (http://youtu.be/LV2CgxSUirI)
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If you like smooth circle rotations, and can't feel the corners... I like the happs supers. I have happs comp, and supers (and a bunch of theres) but I stick with the supers. Why? I don't play fighting games all that often, and for games like time pilots... it makes a huge difference.
Comps I use for fighting control panels. Supers for all around. (And the complaint about supers in the video are real, but at home, they work just fine. New one will out last the cabinet. In an arcade, I could see some issues after a while.
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Also, it depends on what colors you want the joysticks. I believe Supers only come in Black. Although there are 3rd party replacement shafts available.
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I have the IL EURO Competition on my MAME cab with authentic Cherry switches, and I must say, I love them for 8 way games, but they SUCK for 4 way games. I just can't hit the primary directions precise enough with them.
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I like the Seimitsu LS-32. While it's not the greatest for fighting games, it's great for shmups, platformers and beat-em-ups.
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What about the Happs Perfect 360? I don't know how I missed these in my original screening, but they seem to be a good "all purpose" joystick. Is it really just the cost that is off-putting?
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Also, it depends on what colors you want the joysticks. I believe Supers only come in Black. Although there are 3rd party replacement shafts available.
Happ Supers only come in black, but the IL Compact (IL version of the same stick) comes in different colors.
One mod that works well on the Happ Super/IL Compact sticks is the LS-32/zippyy switch upgrade (http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/microswitches/239-seimitsu-ls-32-zippyy-joystick-upgrade-kit.html) -- lower force to actuatie the switch and less noisy. ;D
The only "downside" is when you push the joystick one direction and release it, the centering spring can cause the actuator to overshoot and momentarily actuate the opposite direction.
Scott
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The only "downside" is when you push the joystick one direction and release it, the centering spring can cause the actuator to overshoot and momentarily actuate the opposite direction.
That's true for the Competition joystick as well.
D
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I think i go with the Happ competitions for now, and if I'm not happy with them I'll upgrade to the ultimarcs or the p360. Figure at $12 a pop there isn't much downside to trying them out.
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I like Happs Competition but I think Sanwas are better.
As I always say, anything you put on your panel will be better than what you ever encountered in the arcade. I don't think you can really go wrong.
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The best 8-way isn't ready yet....(soon) ;)
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I'm still in love with the Seimitsu LS-56/58 with octagonal gate combo, but yeah, you'd probably have to route the bottom of the CP for that.
The best 8-way isn't ready yet....(soon) ;)
Hmm... interesting! :applaud:
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I'm still in love with the Seimitsu LS-56/58 with octagonal gate combo, but yeah, you'd probably have to route the bottom of the CP for that.
The best 8-way isn't ready yet....(soon) ;)
Hmm... interesting! :applaud:
In all honesty, I'm not thrilled about ordering the Happs Competition, but until I play with something I don't really have any basis to describe what I like and don't like. I also feel a little overwhelmed with all the decisions and work that needs to go into my arcade, and want "the easy choice" (I.e. I don't want to have to route space, replace springs, figure out what the heck an octagon restrictor does compared to a square restrictor). If I'm not happy once I'm up and playing with them, I'll revisit everyone's recommendations, but at $12 a pop there isn't much downside in giving them a go.
Back to the Happs Competition, they sound like a solid all around joystick for a pretty reasonable price that will be better than what in used to playing with in the arcades. Guess there are worse things.
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if you can swing it, get a comp and a super and see which ones works better for you. I have comps on all my cabs that use an 8way, no complaints.
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Back to the Happs Competition, they sound like a solid all around joystick for a pretty reasonable price that will be better than what in used to playing with in the arcades. Guess there are worse things.
The Comps and Supers are good bat sticks. They are of the better lower-cost choices. Our next offering won't be in the same ball-park for cost, but like anything, quality and performance tend to scale with price. There are good choices out there for virtually any budget.
Different folks have different ideas as to what serves their purposes. You may find the Comps to be a perfect fit for you, so don't sweat it too much :).
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The best 8-way isn't ready yet....(soon) ;)
ooh interesting :)
...wondering, how will you cater between people who prefer light springs and people who prefer heavier springs (assuming you are using springs that is ;)).
also, what about the whole square vs octo vs round gates.. (here's hoping u go square ;D)
ps. everyone hates noisy joysticks
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ooh interesting :)
...wondering, how will you cater between people who prefer light springs and people who prefer heavier springs (assuming you are using springs that is ;)).
also, what about the whole square vs octo vs round gates.. (here's hoping u go square ;D)
ps. everyone hates noisy joysticks
I think the feel of the stick will very quickly grow on folks at both ends of the spectrum you indicated above. ;)
Personally, I've never been a big fan of square restriction for 8-ways. It provides for great diagonals, but rather poor cardinal directions, as there is absolutely nothing to help retain the actuator in those areas. A circle tends to be better in this regard, but does it at expense of the easy diagonals. Octos are better for finding all directions, but do it at the expense of smooth transitioning (really bad for some of my favorite 8-way games). But I also realize that others may not share my preferences, so I will see if square is something I can do as an option. A modified octo is also something I will look at, but that may not be possible.
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Put up or shut up, Randy.
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cheers Randy its nice to get some early clues about your new joystick :)
im sure you have your own list of test games but for what it's worth, here is what i look for when choosing an 8-way stick:
(note: i appreciate there is some settling in time/getting used to any new joystick)
1942, terra cresta - shouldnt feel like 'fighting/struggling' to move diagonally, but also, if just wanting to move directly up/down/left/right, shouldnt hit a diagonal by mistake
commando (capcom) - same as above, plus shouldnt feel too laggy when playing this game (this occurs if stick travel is too long)
streetfighter II championship edition - should be able to do fairly consistent fireballs and dragon punches with ryu/ken (assuming of course one doesnt suck at these games)
kung fu master - should be able to walk along and without stopping do a flying kick (or just a flying jump will suffice :))
then a quick go at shinobi, green beret and robocop .. if they feel ok you have yourself a great all round 8-way joystick :applaud:
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What's your budget OP?
I'll throw my hat in the ring; I'm going to sell grommet centred sticks with choice of snap micro, zero hysteresis micro, leaf, and optical switches.
And with new actuation patterns (closer diagonals)
Don't expect change from $80 (or $110 for the optical)
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What's your budget OP?
I'll throw my hat in the ring; I'm going to sell grommet centred sticks with choice of snap micro, zero hysteresis micro, leaf, and optical switches.
And with new actuation patterns (closer diagonals)
Don't expect change from $80 (or $110 for the optical)
I don't really have a budget, but I need to be able to justify (to myself) the money I'm spending. I guess I'm having a hard time doing that with a $50+ stick (x2) when I haven't even tried the $12 sticks. Maybe once I get my arcade up and running and log in some hours I'll have a better idea of what I like / don't like in a stick in terms of spring, diagonals, etc. At that point I'll probably reevaluate and consider a premium product.
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http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,141159.0/topicseen.html (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,141159.0/topicseen.html)
Go, go, go.
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Put up or shut up, Randy.
Patience, grasshopper.
im sure you have your own list of test games but for what it's worth, here is what i look for when choosing an 8-way stick:
Don't see an issue with any of the games listed. Think "WICO Leaf" but better (yes, I went there :) )
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Think "WICO Leaf" but better (yes, I went there :) )
Not possible. I was an arcade manage for like a decade and man, while I'd have to lube up and service every other stick in the arcade, the 2 things I never had to fix were the WICO leafs and the Race Driving steering wheel. Those sticks never needed adjusting out of the box, and when I shaolin toe stabbed it while playing the original street fighter, I double perfected Akuma. Heck, I used to hate leafs... but then I was shown the reasons how and why, by some other Passionate souls... and have since tried to spread that knowledge myself. The correct controls are what makes the difference.. Far more important than the discomfort of the reach... and even supersedes the actual Placement and arrangement. I Highly suggest seeking out the real deal, and learning the "Float" technique. Its money and effort that are well worth the investment. Real leaf switches are really needed for the fast shooting, and are far less fatiguing than using microswitches. Also, using a joysitck will be too sloppy and slow for turning the ship... due to the long travel from one side to the other... and back again.
Playing anything without a WICO leaf is like gardening with a plumber's wrench! Yeah it'll dig and kill weeds but its just not the right tool for the job! Reminds when this kid was trying to play Defender with a plumber's wrench, kid kept trying to rapid fire but kept bottoming out instead of floating the buttons. What a ---smurfing--- newb right? I shaolin Toe stabbed him in the face, I felt bad cause I think I ended his gaming career on accident, but he knew I meant business! I cite analogies of non mechanical nature.. for those whom do not have very good mechanical experience and understandings... so that anyone can understand these principles... if they care to. The problem is that a lot of people have a chip on their shoulders.. and the again.. are siding with Friendships and feelings.. rather than actually absorbing knowledge. Meanwhile.. they are throwing jabs and hooks... attacking. And so then Ill eventually bite back.. but pretty much only after Ive put down all the points, and tried to maintain civility.
Boring cabinet is boring. You sound as adventurous as a Fish in a Fishbowl. If you can Duplicate a Painting, sculpture, or anything else... The experiences that the original gave off.. is pretty much the same that will result in a high quality replication. Again.. your only looking at things from a limited perspective.. and not honestly. Look again. I do cite my experience, just as anyone with experience in a field would do. Thats because with 3 yrs of mechanical repairs on arcade machines in a busy arcade... filled with many old and not-so-well-kept games... you tend to learn a thing to 1000.
Now, I know that doesnt mean much, but Ive been doing karate and kung fu for like 20 years, so my opinion is FACT JACK! So before you Jump off the Deep end to reply.. Read what Ive said in non-anger speak, and then consider looking in the mirror to boot. I play Fighting games like Tekken III, Killer Instinct, Metal Slug, Ridge Racer ; so I know what Im talking about.
Please not the area of disagreement, with backing proof rebuttal.
Ohh, and Btw ... As I type all of these massive Walls of text... for the many years Ive done so... I do not have any Carple Tunnel issues...
YET... my wrist are currently bent at the forearm - to form about a 35 to 45 degree angle, while typing on this Laptop.
The wrists are made to flex a bit, and thats not really the big issue in such injuries. The problem comes from a constant, no-rest, usage... and the person not flexing and stretching the wrists often.. using a full range of motion roll and or shake.
As such, the muscles and tendons get way too tight... and start to knot up, and things get Ugly from there.
Many people have back injuries due to a similar reason. If your back into stretched and flexible... the muscles will be taught. If the muscles twitch suddenly, and voilently.. they will pull the very bones they are connected to, out of place. Hence, often need a Chiropractor to pop them back in place... as well as a lot of rest and relaxation, for the swelling, tearing, and injured / inflamed areas... to get back to normal.
So, if you are doing something with incredible intensity... non stop, rapidly... take many short breaks, and roll, stretch, and shake out the stress. Take a few deep breaths in and out to increase the O2 content, as well as to increase bloodflow pressure... and shake the blood back into the area of tension. As often, a tense area of use can get places where the tension has caused bloodflow to be weak in certain areas... and that compounds the issue over time.
This is why its so important in any straining situation, to breath regularly rather than to clam up and hold your breath. And why things like Martial arts... Tai Chi, Qigong, and even Yoga... promote and create great positive health changes. Slow deep constantly intense breathing, with the motions. Super saturation of o2, with a relaxed state of the body. Relaxed and flexible muscles, that work with fluidity, and graceful 'pinpoint precision' control.
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:timebomb: :cheers:
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(http://fourhorsementattoo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/he-hate-me.jpg)
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Pastiche is the sincerest form of flattery.
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... Oh my freaking god wall of text ...
I didn't think it possible. This was awesome and yet made even less sense than the parody subject.
Malenko Bueler, you're my hero!
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Think "WICO Leaf" but better (yes, I went there :) )
--giant post of epicness--
Bravo good sir. Bravo. :applaud:
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IMO, you can't go wrong with $12 Comps as general-purpose 8-way sticks for your first MAME machine. I've been using them for 3-4 years--heavily--and I have no complaints at all. Granted, I only use them for 8-way games; don't even bother trying Frogger with a Comp, as I promise you it will suck.
The only good reason I can see to get more "boutique" sticks would be if you really get into the hobby, play some original cabinets, and start wanting to more closely replicate the feel of specific games. Authenticity of controls brings no value if you don't even have the reference point to know what constitutes authenticity. In that case, so long as the stick works and doesn't get in your way, you're golden. Just play the games and have fun.
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IMO, you can't go wrong with $12 Comps as general-purpose 8-way sticks for your first MAME machine. I've been using them for 3-4 years--heavily--and I have no complaints at all. Granted, I only use them for 8-way games; don't even bother trying Frogger with a Comp, as I promise you it will suck.
The only good reason I can see to get more "boutique" sticks would be if you really get into the hobby, play some original cabinets, and start wanting to more closely replicate the feel of specific games. Authenticity of controls brings no value if you don't even have the reference point to know what constitutes authenticity. In that case, so long as the stick works and doesn't get in your way, you're golden. Just play the games and have fun.
^^^^This
If you use mame long enough, you will upgrade something.
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The only good reason I can see to get more "boutique" sticks...
Well, I like the idea of either a dedicated 4-way or a stick that can be restricted. Then again, I intend to have a dedicated 4 way cab eventually anyway.
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The only good reason I can see to get more "boutique" sticks...
Well, I like the idea of either a dedicated 4-way or a stick that can be restricted. Then again, I intend to have a dedicated 4 way cab eventually anyway.
Amen, brother. That's why I built my HaRuMaN Cocktail kit.
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I've taken the custom octogon restrictor and elongated shafts (for wood panels) from my old Ultimarc 360's and added them back to standard Sanwa JLW's. Absolutely love them for everything. :laugh:
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No Noo Nooo
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Hey Guys,
I have the Mag-Stik Plus by Ultimarc. http://www.ultimarc.com/controls.html (http://www.ultimarc.com/controls.html)
To me, if you want all purpose, this guy switches from 4 to 8 way very easily and has lasted me years. I'm putting my first pair, which were in my cocktail machine I made ten years ago, into a cocktail I'm going to build next. Never had a problem with them, ever.
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Put up or shut up, Randy.
Patience, grasshopper.
im sure you have your own list of test games but for what it's worth, here is what i look for when choosing an 8-way stick:
Don't see an issue with any of the games listed. Think "WICO Leaf" but better (yes, I went there :) )
I'll believe when I see it.
As to the original subject, I personally like comps but i think the supers are a little better all around.
Of course when ever this best joystick question comes up, there are many answers because eveyone has preferences.
For strictly 8 way, I love my Sanwa JLW with cherries, round gate and heavier spring. Not the cheapest but it feels great.
I really can't stand the square gates for 8 way.
I'm also experimenting with a Crown joystick which uses a rubber centering grommet. I just wish the grommet was a little stiffer.
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If you play a lot of fighting games, these are modified Competition sticks that have gold switches with a different actuation point and heavier springs. Better for hitting diagonals. They were modified for Williams for Mortal Kombat games. I love them.
http://na.suzohapp.com/all_catalogs/joysticks/50-6071-16 (http://na.suzohapp.com/all_catalogs/joysticks/50-6071-16)
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I'll believe when I see it.
Won't be long now. :)
I'm also experimenting with a Crown joystick which uses a rubber centering grommet. I just wish the grommet was a little stiffer.
These aren't bad, but the rubber centering mechanism in those sticks (not a "grommet" in the same sense as the traditional joysticks) doesn't allow for a lot of throw. The shaft hits the plastic surround well before actually flexing the rubber much. Very different feel from the original rubber-to-steel bonded grommet based sticks.
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I thought I would throw this in the mix as I like the Sanwa jlf sticks and it looks like PAS is taking them to the next level! very interesting to say the least http://iplaywinner.com/news/2014/9/18/new-sanwa-jlf-add-on-by-paradise-arcade-shop-gives-players-a.html (http://iplaywinner.com/news/2014/9/18/new-sanwa-jlf-add-on-by-paradise-arcade-shop-gives-players-a.html)
more about the capabilities can be found here http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/152973/paradise-arcade-joystick-project-magenta (http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/152973/paradise-arcade-joystick-project-magenta)
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Bruce,
That's for the JLF.
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8 way leaf, Mag-Stik-like switchable to 4, ball top + fire. I hope that's what the next GGG is.
I'll never understand you microswitchers.