Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: Elias on December 06, 2003, 09:35:46 pm
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Functionality aside, what is the best-performing keyboard encoder? This would include the obvious no-ghosting/blocking/etc., and also speed and reliability during gameplay. Or do the top encoders all handle this the same way?
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From all the research I've done, the top 2 options I've seen are the I-PAC and the keywhiz. AFAIK they were designed specifically for PC arcade machines, though they are certainly not limited to these options. You shouldn't see any ghosting or blocking with these.
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I also posed this question in the chat room, and it seems the top encoders (KeyWiz, I-Pac, Hagstrom's, etc.) have no edge in performance over each other.
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Ooh, I was just about to post the same topic. I want to know the differences in features between I-PAC and KeyWiz. Please enlighten my ignorant self.
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The features that the I-PAC has but the Keywhiz doesn't are:
Keeps its programming after power off
Transparent keyboard pass-through
Shift function which doesnt need a dedicated shift button
Possibly easier to wire if you have a standard panel owing to simpler markings
USB option.
Supports panel LEDs
The features the Keywhiz has which the I-PAC doesnt are:
Cheaper
4 more inputs and a dedicated shift button input
So it depends on what features you need/don't need.
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The features the Keywhiz has which the I-PAC doesnt are:
Cheaper
4 more inputs and a dedicated shift button input
You forgot some:
- Jumperless operation
- Instant switching between default and custom set
- +5v access at a screw terminal, instead of a jumper pin.
- Key sets can be reprogrammed an infinite number of times
- Double sided circuit board with plated through holes for highest reliability
- More advanced software support with integrated application launching which requires no keyboard
- Larger input buffer
- Easier implementation of single button shifted commands.
.. and it's 5 more inputs that are usable for player controls. ;)
Anyone who is looking for comparisons should take a look at TigerHeli's excellent comparison page (http://www.fraggersxtreme.com/arcadepanels/encoder/index.htm#COMPARISION) to make sure you get accurate info.
So it depends on what features you need/don't need.
Absolutely :)
RandyT
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Anyone who is looking for comparisons should take a look at TigerHeli's excellent comparison page (http://www.fraggersxtreme.com/arcadepanels/encoder/index.htm#COMPARISION) to make sure you get accurate info.
So it depends on what features you need/don't need.
Absolutely :)
RandyT
Hey, thanks for the link!
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I must have been asleep or something, I seem to have completely missed the announcement of the KeyWiz Max 1.5. When did these come out? I've been using standard KeyWiz's in the past and am 100% happy with them, but I guess in future I'll be going with the Max1.5 model.
Good job RandyT! You truely are a god amongst us nerds.
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You weren't asleep, there was no announcement that I'm aware of.
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Functionality aside, what is the best-performing keyboard encoder? This would include the obvious no-ghosting/blocking/etc., and also speed and reliability during gameplay. Or do the top encoders all handle this the same way?
Feature wise, RandyT covered most of the differences and linked to my comparison, so I won't repeat that data.
IMHO, Hagstrom is a little pricey, good quality, but not specifically designed for arcade controls. No one mentioned the MK64. Either this, the Keywiz, or the I-PAC are all good options.
I don't know that you'll see an actual performance problem (at least in PS/2 mode) with any of these encoder, and I can't provide details, but if you look at the overall design and the tech data provided on each encoders page www.groovygamegear.com, www.ultimarc.com, www.mk64.com/ron, I would rate the performance as (Worst to Best) MK64, I-PAC, KeyWiz.
Technically, the MK64 is a Multiplexed unit, with separate chips reading a group of inputs and a central processor sequentially scanning each of these chips. I'm not saying there are performance issues with it, but it's not a very efficient process, but I'm not sure it needs to be.
The I-PAC/2 and KeyWiz are both single-chip encoders.
RandyT has very detailed information on his site about the performance advantages of the KeyWiz (see http://www.groovygamegear.com/Page3.html#13 about the "Single button Test".
How much difference any of this makes in practice is hard to say. The example I like from when the KeyWiz was released was "What difference does it make if I'm driving a Ferarri or a Focus, if I'm going to the grocery store on 35 mph streets.
But if the Ferarri cost 10-15% less than the Focus, the speed can only be an advantage.
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Lotus, your points are for the most part technically correct, but let me address some issues here:
The features that the I-PAC has but the Keywhiz doesn't are:
Keeps its programming after power off
True, but if you want to use a non-standard codeset with the KeyWiz, you can just load the codeset from software during boot-up.
Transparent keyboard pass-through
True, but the current KeyWiz has a switched pass-through, and you can get the same effect by using a USB or wireless keyboard.
Shift function which doesnt need a dedicated shift button
Actually, the KeyWiz has a much more versatile shift function than the I-PAC. You can use a separate button, access shifted functions from a single button (can be done with the I-PAC also, but the wiring is more involved, and I'm not sure if you can wire up multiple buttons this way), or can even work similarly to the way the I-PAC does, see http://www.fraggersxtreme.com/arcadepanels/encoder/shiftkeys.htm for details.
Possibly easier to wire if you have a standard panel owing to simpler markings
This also is debateable. See http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=13945 where I had to explain that you could wire a Pause button to P1B8. And I can't tell you how many posts there been asking what games needed 8 buttons per player just b/c the I-PAC was labelled that way. And we won't get into if you start using the P1B7 input as Coin1 b/c it makes the flashing LED's less annoying.
For the inexperienced, the I-PAC labelling is better. When you get more advanced, I kinda like the MK64, where I have Input 00, Input 01, etc., and it's up to me to decide what each input should be and what button I want to connect to it. The KeyWiz is somewhere in the middle of these extremes, which is a pretty good compromise also.
USB option.
Yes the I-PAC supports USB. No, the other encoders do not. And I'll grant that for the majority of users the I-PAC does fine in USB mode. That said, there isn't a week that goes by that I don't see a new post about I-PAC problems and the usual response being "Are you using USB mode?, Change the transfer rate, or use PS/2 mode, etc."
Supports panel LEDs
Supports low intensity LED's (without a separate driver board), and the LED's will flash whenever Button 7 or Button 8 are pressed. But yes, it's a feature of the I-PAC and MK64 and not the KeyWiz.
The features the Keywhiz has which the I-PAC doesnt are:
Cheaper
4 more inputs and a dedicated shift button input
Yeah, you left a lot out, but I think RandyT and I already covered these elsewhere.
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Other notes:
MK64 pros:
has dual SNK rotary support (save 40 bucks on a druins board if you where planning on getting one).
It has macro support... (can't get that super upper cut... well... do something about it....) This is nice for multiple key exits for non-mame emulators.... But after that... I don't use it that often.
It was the first to have XP configuration..
It has 3 key banks... (for quick switching for all key configs)
It has shift keys (7 I think) but 7 per bank. (who needs more then 7 shifts... since they can only be used with admin stuff anyway)..
He donates to BYOAC with every sale! (still doing that right?)
The mention of multiple chips being unefficient has never given me a slowdown. But might allow for the extra features that the others don't have...
Cons:
No screw terminals. It is designed to be used with a scsi cable or ide cables. Not a big deal because I had terminals myself...
Command Line only software. The config software isn't as nice as some of the others. But it wall works well. It only takes someone 10 minutes to learn everything anyway. It's just you have to know how to use a text editor... (ooohhhh scary).
Not marketed well. I am supprised at how far a thread can go about encoders without mention of this great solution.
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The MK64 is, unfortunately, no longer for sale. It actually hasn't been for some time :(
Other notes:
MK64 pros:
has dual SNK rotary support (save 40 bucks on a druins board if you where planning on getting one).
It has macro support... (can't get that super upper cut... well... do something about it....) This is nice for multiple key exits for non-mame emulators.... But after that... I don't use it that often.
It was the first to have XP configuration..
It has 3 key banks... (for quick switching for all key configs)
It has shift keys (7 I think) but 7 per bank. (who needs more then 7 shifts... since they can only be used with admin stuff anyway)..
He donates to BYOAC with every sale! (still doing that right?)
The mention of multiple chips being unefficient has never given me a slowdown. But might allow for the extra features that the others don't have...
Cons:
No screw terminals. It is designed to be used with a scsi cable or ide cables. Not a big deal because I had terminals myself...
Command Line only software. The config software isn't as nice as some of the others. But it wall works well. It only takes someone 10 minutes to learn everything anyway. It's just you have to know how to use a text editor... (ooohhhh scary).
Not marketed well. I am supprised at how far a thread can go about encoders without mention of this great solution.
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Ipac, Keywiz, Hagstrom...all great encoders.
I will say this, RandyT has gone to great lengths to make encoders completely affordable (without sacrificing quality).
Personally, I have a Hagstrom KE72T. I bought it a couple of years ago, and it works great. But, my new control panel is going to use a Keywiz.
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When I built my first cab, I bought a Hagstrom KE-72 T, and have been very happy with it. A little pricey, but it's top of the line(72 inputs + trackball support). I built another cab for a friend and we tried out an ipac, which we are very happy with and saved ourselves alot of money, naturally because it is cheaper. It all depends how many inputs you want and if you want trackball support to base you decision on.
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Saint,
Are you just now getting around to reading the DECEMBER 2003 postings?
You're going to have to read faster than that, or you'll NEVER catch up. :)
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Saint,
Are you just now getting around to reading the DECEMBER 2003 postings?
You're going to have to read faster than that, or you'll NEVER catch up. :)
I know.. I was wondering why this came back up?
Besides, I love my IPAC