Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: soslo on December 03, 2003, 11:42:07 am
-
I am building a cab that is LS-30/rotary games only, so I've been looking for an exhaustive list. Many people/sites have a partial list, but I think this is the most exaustive so far. If I am wrong, no biggie - just post the game name so I can add it ;)
Bermuda Triangle
Caliber 50
Downtown
Drift Out
Exterminator
Forgotton Worlds
Front Line
Gondomania
Guerilla War
Heavy Barrel
Heavy Barrel
Ikari III
Ikari III
Ikari Warriors
Midnight Resistance
SAR Search and Rescue
Time Soldiers
Tin Star
TNK 3
TNK III
Top Gunner (Jackal)
Touchdown Fever
Tournament Arkanoid
Victory Road
Wild Western
Xybots
And here is a little .bat file (the contents at least) to help copy the roms and art for these particular games. Modify it to suit your needs.
copy arkanoid.* \ls30
copy arkatour.* \ls30
copy bermudat.* \ls30
copy calibr50.* \ls30
copy downtown.* \ls30
copy driftout.* \ls30
copy exterm.* \ls30
copy forgottn.* \ls30
copy frontlin.* \ls30
copy gondo.* \ls30
copy gwar.* \ls30
copy hbarrel.* \ls30
copy ikari.* \ls30
copy ikari3.* \ls30
copy jackal.* \ls30
copy midres.* \ls30
copy midresu.* \ls30
copy searchar.* \ls30
copy sercharu.* \ls30
copy tdfever.* \ls30
copy timesol1.* \ls30
copy timesold.* \ls30
copy tinstar.* \ls30
copy tnk3.* \ls30
copy topgunbl.* \ls30
copy victroad.* \ls30
copy wwestern.* \ls30
copy xybots.* \ls30
-
That is so weird. I was just wondering today about the merits of having rotary sticks on my "still to be built" cab and was looking around klov for rotary games.
Not sure the limited number of games using rotaries justify a rotary stick on the panel. I certainly never played any games in a UK arcade that had these sticks.
Still, I'll probably build a seperate panel for these once the cab is finished!
-
Uh... Ls-30 bladi blah what?
Yup, I'm a dumbass.
-
btw, some of the entries didn't use rotaries... but they work well with them (Xybots)
And some used a 8way joystick that is always pointed that had a button on top (frontline). I hear druins board can handle this, but MK64's dont currently (well? new feature?). I was also considering looking at converting them in mame (l/r -> up, upleft, left, left/down, ect). But the controller stuff in mame gives me a headache.
-
Yah actually weird enough, Forgotten Worlds, this awesome capcom side-scrolling shooting game used a normal joystick, and a spinner that pushed down like a button. I remember seeing one on ebay go for like 30 bucks a while back, wish I would have picked it up, cause it would have been an easy hack.
-
I'm pretty sure that that Drift Out and Tournament Arkanoid don't use a rotary joystick.
The Top Gunner bootlet is really awesome - the game didn't use the rotary originally, but the bootleg version does.
-
Yeah, xybots is not really a rotory joystick, it's more of a rotory button. it only turns like 10 degrees in either direction because it just hits microswitches. Not a real rotory joystick.
What does the dial do in drift out? i couldn;t find a manual anywhere and it didn;t seem to do anything in the game.
-
btw, some of the entries didn't use rotaries... but they work well with them (Xybots)
And some used a 8way joystick that is always pointed that had a button on top (frontline). I hear druins board can handle this, but MK64's dont currently (well? new feature?). I was also considering looking at converting them in mame (l/r -> up, upleft, left, left/down, ect). But the controller stuff in mame gives me a headache.
For Crashwg: LS-30's are the rotary joysticks used by SNK in Ikari Warriors, etc. Basically, it's an 8-way positional joystick, but spinning the joystick rotated the character, so you could fire to the left while running to the right, etc.
For LilWolf: Druin's interface needs an additional circuit board (plans on his site) to handle Frontline. I think it could be adapted to the new MK64, but haven't looked into it.
Someone REALLY needs to hack MAME so Frontline/Tin Star/Wild Western can use a DIAL like Ikari does, hint, hint, Someone???
-
Question on this - are the Druin or MK64 interfaces "necessary" anymore now that MAME Analog+ supports using rotary joysticks? Am I going to miss some functionality by not having one of the interfaces?
Troy
-
The posted list, above, is missing one game, World Wars
Also, to repeat others, many of the games in the list did not use ls-30 or other 12-direction rotaries. See below for more info.
Question on this - are the Druin or MK64 interfaces "necessary" anymore now that MAME Analog+ supports using rotary joysticks? Am I going to miss some functionality by not having one of the interfaces?
Troy
The Analog+ feature you're talking about only supports 12-direction rotary games with a ls-30 or other 12-way rotary joysticks.
Games that used 8-direction, 16-direction, 24-direction, or spinners are not dirrectly supported, but druin and mk64 can throught the normal mame or the changes in Analog+ for druin type inputs
Analog+ direct 12-direction rotary feature supports only these games and their clones (except for one bootleg):
- Battle Field
- Bermuda Triangle
- DownTown
- Gondomania
- Guerrilla War
- Heavy Barrel
- Ikari Warriors*(except one bootleg used an 8-direction rotary)
- Ikari III
- Midnight Resistance
- T.N.K. III
- Search And Rescue
- Time Soldiers
- Victory Road
- World Wars
However, to get the above working with Analog+'s direct 12-direction support, you need to find 12 more buttons per joystick. Druin/mk64 only need two per stick, so you save 10.
For example, neither the 2 player ipac nor the keywhiz encoders can fit two 8-way, 12-direction rotary joysticks and 2 buttons per player, let alone include coin, start, and admin buttons. (4x2 for 8-way joysticks + 12x2 for rotaries + 2x2 for buttons = 36 inputs) [shrug]
Analog+ direct 12-direction rotary feature does not support these games, and the reasons:
- Caliber 50 (optical rotary "loop 24" - not 12-directions)
- Drift Out (racing game with choices of different input types - NOT ROTARY?)
- Exterminator (3 axis joystick - not rotary joystick)
- Forgotton Worlds (spinner)
- Front Line (8-direction rotary)
- *Ikari Warriors, bootleg version (8-direction rotary)
- Tin Star (8-direction rotary)
- Top Gunner (Jackal) (8-direction rotary)
- Touchdown Fever (not sure, but looks like normal spinner or
- analog joystick)
- Tournament Arkanoid (spinner)
- Wild Western (8-direction rotary)
- Xybots (3 axis joystick - not rotary joystick)
The above would still work with druin/mk64 interfaces. [shrug]
-
One more quick note about Xybots. The original game used a 4-way joystick, despite being coded to allow diagonal movements. Play it in Mame with an 8-way, and then go play a real machine and you will see what I mean.
-
Someone REALLY needs to hack MAME so Frontline/Tin Star/Wild Western can use a DIAL like Ikari does, hint, hint, Someone???
I don't know much about LS-30 rotary joysticks, but I do own 2 8-way rotary pushbutton dials (have no idea what they are really called) and they work fine in MAME for Wild Western and Sheriff. I have attached a picture below, if anyone knows what they are really called please let me know.
-
Someone REALLY needs to hack MAME so Frontline/Tin Star/Wild Western can use a DIAL like Ikari does, hint, hint, Someone???
I don't know much about LS-30 rotary joysticks, but I do own 2 8-way rotary pushbutton dials (have no idea what they are really called) and they work fine in MAME for Wild Western and Sheriff. I have attached a picture below, if anyone knows what they are really called please let me know.
My guess is that's a Frontline or Wild Western or Tin Star controller.
Yes, those work fine in MAME but not everyone has them or can come by them.
My point was -
In Ikari, I can't directly connect the LS-30's that the game originally used (except with the new Analog +) but I can play the game with a standard spinner, because of the way MAME defines the controls.
Frontline/etc. - I can play the game fine with the original controls, but it would be easy to play using a standard spinner, if MAME were modified to accept this as another type of input.
-
quick note:
MK64 requires 6 extra connections per joystick (not 2). You combinet 1 and 6, 2 and 7, ect....
I thought druin already added the 8way. Hopefully he does it as an extra board... (or better yet... analog+ anyone??)
I just tried topgunbl (at work... no snk) and it is SWEET! I can't wait to try it. I LOVE that game and it looks so much better with SNK support!
It would be great to get a good list of works well games for the SNK rotaries. I only have been playing timepilot myself (and some victroad).
-
>MK64 requires 6 extra connections per joystick (not 2). You >combinet 1 and 6, 2 and 7, ect....
Good point, thanks!
>I thought druin already added the 8way. Hopefully he does it as an >extra board... (or better yet... analog+ anyone??)
Druin has plans on his site for an interface board to allow SNK's to work in front line. He does not sell these. Analog+ supports SNK's directly in SNK games. What we need is SNK and Spinner support in analog + for Frontline/Tin Star/Wild Western.
>It would be great to get a good list of works well games for the SNK >rotaries. I only have been playing timepilot myself (and some >victroad).
Timepilot is not supposed to be rotary.
-
TimeSoldier... Sorry :P
btw, the 6 inputs isn't usually a problem... considering that the MK64 has...well.. 64 inputs. It would be an issue for adding 2 on a 4player cab without hotswappable control panels...
-
>TimeSoldier... Sorry :P
Ok, so that's what you meant :-)))
>btw, the 6 inputs isn't usually a problem... considering that the MK64 >has...well.. 64 inputs. It would be an issue for adding 2 on a 4player >cab without hotswappable control panels...
Not much of an issue - The MK64 with 2 rotaries has 52 inputs left, same as an I-PAC/4 with Druin's interface. Since you really don't need more than 4 buttons for players 3 and 4, you shouldn't have any problems with lack of inputs, unless you are doing 4-player console emulation, etc.
-
quick note:
MK64 requires 6 extra connections per joystick (not 2). You combinet 1 and 6, 2 and 7, ect....
You're right. I was thinking on mame's end: it uses 2 keys per joystick, same as druins interface. You do raise a point, as if you use the rotary feature in the mk64, it sort of turns into 52 normal switches + 4 outputs for rotary..
... the 8way. Hopefully ... analog+ anyone??
Are you talking 12way rotary to 8way game, or 8way rotary to 12way game, or both, or something else?
-
I would LOVE to see the SNKs work with frontline/8ways.
btw, the new SNK code. How does it work? Does it end up creating the 'l' and 'r' or bypass them all? Why? Because you will find that you don't need all 12 (unless you are going directly to the hardware). 6 is enough (and you could get away with 3, but you might find some going backwards a click instead of forward twice fast and missing one... But thats just for slower machines).
Reason I'm asking is that I have to rewire my SNK control panel to get the second player working. I use 24 pin connectors by default and I couldn't get 2 players with 2 buttons each... (ran out of inputs). So now I need to add a second 24 pin connector. Since I need two, I might go directly to the analog+ 12 connectors.
But then I would have some troubles getting xybots running.
-
I would LOVE to see the SNKs work with frontline/8ways.
Hmm, a software convertion from 12way to L-R to 8way. Doable, but ... not "nice" ... I'll think about it.
btw, the new SNK code. How does it work? Does it end up creating the 'l' and 'r' or bypass them all? Why? Because you will find that you don't need all 12 (unless you are going directly to the hardware). 6 is enough (and you could get away with 3, but you might find some going backwards a click instead of forward twice fast and missing one... But thats just for slower machines).
I have it so all twelve wires have it's own input (aka button). The inputs are then combined just like the arcade's PCB did and sent to the game ROM. For most 12way rotary games, each rotary is combined onto 12 bits, one bit per direction (ie, if pin 7 is closed, return a '0000 0100 0000'). A few, however, translate the pin number into a hex number (ie, if pin 7 is closed, return a 7 or "0111").
There is no l-r convertion, since the original game didn't. So, no I can't use just 6 without adding a lot more hacks, instead of not using hacks.
FWIW, these additions are "more true to the original" than mame's use of the dial, or the druin circuits. It only works with 12way rotaries and 12way games, though. [shrug]
Reason I'm asking is that I have to rewire my SNK control panel to get the second player working. I use 24 pin connectors by default and I couldn't get 2 players with 2 buttons each... (ran out of inputs). So now I need to add a second 24 pin connector. Since I need two, I might go directly to the analog+ 12 connectors.
But then I would have some troubles getting xybots running.
How about a switch that changes the 24 pins between going to a druin/mk64 board, or going directly to 24 keys on a keyboard encoder (or 24 buttons on a gamepad hack)?