Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: BLACK KNIGHT on November 30, 2003, 10:04:20 pm
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I have a XP 1600+ with 256 PC2700 memory and a Geforce 4 MX440 video card in my arcade cabinet. This may sound cheap but I'd like to downgrade it as the arcade cabinet I've decided to make it a dedicated cabinet...but I don't want to leave such a nice PC in it. The PC has a T.V. tuner card and such and I'd like to use it for other things. I was wondering what the lowest thing I could put in there is but still be able to play all the games like Area51/Maximum Force etc. Any recommendations?
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I have a XP 1600+ with 256 PC2700 memory and a Geforce 4 MX440 video card in my arcade cabinet. I was wondering what the lowest thing I could put in there is but still be able to play all the games like Area51/Maximum Force etc. Any recommendations?
Probably a XP 2100+. Oh wait, that is bigger than your current processor... Someone else can give you a more accurate answer, but your I don't think a 1600+ is overkill (thats about 1.3Ghz). I'm running a Celron 2.4Ghz or an XP 1800+ with 512 PC2700. On a side note (and the real reason I am responding), your XP1600+ has a 266mhz front side bus (fsb). That means that your RAM is being clocked down to PC2100.
If you keep your eyes open, you might be able to pick up a 256mb stick of PC2100 RAM free after rebate from a store like OfficeMax or online at Outpost.com or Staples.com. I'm not saying you need more than 256 for MAME, but you might for other emulators or other games you run on the dedicated cabinet.
<edit>usual errors</edit>
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Hardly a day goes by that someone doesn't post this.
Grrr, people, forget about the lamo hard drive games and 90s midway hardware stuff for 5 minutes and save yourself a fortune in computer costs. Then, in 2 years buy a used computer for $80, and that used one will play those games just fine.
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I have a XP 1600+ with 256 PC2700 memory and a Geforce 4 MX440 video card in my arcade cabinet. I was wondering what the lowest thing I could put in there is but still be able to play all the games like Area51/Maximum Force etc. Any recommendations?
Probably a XP 2100+. Oh wait, that is bigger than your current processor... Someone else can give you a more accurate answer, but your I don't think a 1600+ is overkill (thats about 1.3Ghz). I'm running a Celron 2.4Ghz or an XP 1800+ with 512 PC2700. On a side note (and the real reason I am responding), your XP1600+ has a 266mhz front side bus (fsb). That means that your RAM is being clocked down to PC2100.
<edit>usual errors</edit>
Actually, my motherboard supports running the memory and CPU at different bus rates so my PC2700 is running with a 333mhz FSB and actually so is my XP 1600+ because I'm technically overclocking it and running the CPU and memory bus in sync. I run all my computers with the FSB in sync and overclock my CPUs.
Paige: So you're saying I can get away with an old cruddy computer for 90% of the games?
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It's nonsense to wait until computer prices go down--they are always going down. If you waited until, say, an Athlon XP 3200+ system got to $80 then you might as well wait until the theoretical limits of cpu's are hit and the prices on those systems are $80 ;).. My advice is get the best system out right now (in reason) at the current price-break. Right now the current CPU price-break is at a XP 2600+ or a 2700+ (333mhz fsb), $88 and $103 respectively. It's the best bang for the buck right now and you'll get the most enjoyment out of a system that's got enough beef to run all the mame games (besides the 3d polygon ones).
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For what it's worth I've been stress testing ;D my PIII 733 for my cabinet. I've got 768 Megs of RAM in there (it was my gaming machine up until about a year ago) so that may skew the results somewhat. I don't have a ton of ROMS yet, but the only game I could get to even appear slow was Mortal Kombat II. MK1 seemed just fine, along with just about everyhting else I tried. If you're looking for early 90s and before, that computer should be just fine. If you're looking to play something newer like area 51, you may need to upgrade. :)
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To run all the games at 100% is impossible.
The mame FAQ suggests at leat a 700Mhz computer.
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To run all the games at 100% is impossible.
The mame FAQ suggests at leat a 700Mhz computer.
To support this statement:
I recently built and Athlon 64 3200+, overclocked it to 2.2Ghz and ran some of the 3d games. It maybe added 5-8fps vs. my 2400+.
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My advice is to put the fastest thing into your cabinet that you can get for free (or really cheap) from a friend, relative, or garage sale.
I don't buy computers, I ask around, and friends have "worthless" machines up to 500 mhz, just sitting in their basements.
Right now I'm running a 500 mhz p3 with probly 128 mbs of ram. For all of the games I play - old school games, plus newer ones like puzzle bobble, king of fighters & metal slug; it works great.
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Also, if you happen to have some really old PC's around the house, I found that VANTAGE works perfect for those. You can put together a nice little cab with what VANTAGE has to offer.
I put together a pretty cool little 1 player cab using VANTAGE, sort of a 10&1 unit, and it plays the early classics without any strain whatsoever.
You might want to check that out if you're concerned with processor specs. I was turned on to it a while back, and I've been faithful to it since.
Now those $25 computers at the yard sales actually have a new purpose, a rebirth if you will.
Just my 2 cents!! :D
Michael
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Everyone keeps asking "How big a processer and how much ram do I need?" But how good of a video card would you need to run 4 player fighting games with say a PIII 500MHz?
How much onboard RAM should a video card need and how much of a difference would it make?
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I think maybe you should consider the video card too? I have a P3-700 and it runs 95% of the games fine. I do have problems with Mortal combat and a tiny bit of slowdown for games like Metal Slug and a few of the recent fighters like Art of Fighting 3 and Marvel vs. Capcom. I think that my problems might be due to the video card but haven
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No guys, you do NOT need a killer video card for Mame. No matter what speed your computer is. Mame is emulation. There is no 3d hardware acceleration or anything like that. It's 90% dependant on processor power.
And getting a nice new video card to pair with your 500MHz cpu will only create a large bottleneck. You video card will NOT be maxing out it's performance.
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Okay, I guess I'm gonna just have to scrounge up some older equipment and test the games I want to see if they run. My main computer system which is not in any cabinet has a XP1700+ CPU oc'ed to 2 Ghz, 256 PC2700, Geforce4 Ti-4200 and it still won't run War Gods or Tekken very well at all. But I have no problems with Ultimate MK III even on my 1600+ machine. So it sounds like my best bet maybe to build a lowend machine and see how many games I can get away with playing. I can probably build myself a Gigahertz machine from the spare parts I have and spend about $100...so I may just try that. Thanks for the replies.
Jakobud: That makes a lot of sense besides the fact that it's an emulator. My XP1600+ with a Geforce 4 MX440se plays games almost identically to my XP1700+ with a Geforce 4 Ti-4200 which is a major leap in video card over the previous system. So if video card had anything to do with it I'd think that War Gods and Tekken would be playable on my main system not just barely faster than my 1600+ system.
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Well I wasn't implying to go get a Radeon 9700Pro, but to get pretty much Any ATI card even if its a 35.00 one will be better than perhaps a geforce or a TNT etc.
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No guys, you do NOT need a killer video card for Mame. No matter what speed your computer is. Mame is emulation. There is no 3d hardware acceleration or anything like that. It's 90% dependant on processor power.
And getting a nice new video card to pair with your 500MHz cpu will only create a large bottleneck. You video card will NOT be maxing out it's performance.
Agreed. I don't understand why people buy $50+ video cards for dedicated MAME machines. My Cabinet has a $6 ATI 8MB Rage card in it from e-bay and works flawlessly. There is no 3D acceleration, and you don't need video memory, so spending a bunch of money on a video card for a MAME cabinet is pointless unless you need an ArcadeVGA or something like that to support your lower frequency arcade monitor, or you plan on playing on 3D PC games on your arcade cabinet.
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No guys, you do NOT need a killer video card for Mame. No matter what speed your computer is. Mame is emulation. There is no 3d hardware acceleration or anything like that. It's 90% dependant on processor power.
And getting a nice new video card to pair with your 500MHz cpu will only create a large bottleneck. You video card will NOT be maxing out it's performance.
Agreed. I don't understand why people buy $50+ video cards for dedicated MAME machines. My Cabinet has a $6 ATI 8MB Rage card in it from e-bay and works flawlessly. There is no 3D acceleration, and you don't need video memory, so spending a bunch of money on a video card for a MAME cabinet is pointless unless you need an ArcadeVGA or something like that to support your lower frequency arcade monitor, or you plan on playing on 3D PC games on your arcade cabinet.
Whoah, I didn't realize you could get away with that cruddy of a video card. MAME doesnt use 3D or the xtra memory on a video card?
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Hardly a day goes by that someone doesn't post this.
Grrr, people, forget about the lamo hard drive games and 90s midway hardware stuff for 5 minutes and save yourself a fortune in computer costs. Then, in 2 years buy a used computer for $80, and that used one will play those games just fine.
Of course, by then newer games will have been added to Mame so there will still be games you can't play with your system. Bang for the buck is best in my opinion.
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No guys, you do NOT need a killer video card for Mame. No matter what speed your computer is. Mame is emulation. There is no 3d hardware acceleration or anything like that. It's 90% dependant on processor power.
And getting a nice new video card to pair with your 500MHz cpu will only create a large bottleneck. You video card will NOT be maxing out it's performance.
Agreed. I don't understand why people buy $50+ video cards for dedicated MAME machines. My Cabinet has a $6 ATI 8MB Rage card in it from e-bay and works flawlessly. There is no 3D acceleration, and you don't need video memory, so spending a bunch of money on a video card for a MAME cabinet is pointless unless you need an ArcadeVGA or something like that to support your lower frequency arcade monitor, or you plan on playing on 3D PC games on your arcade cabinet.
Whoah, I didn't realize you could get away with that cruddy of a video card. MAME doesnt use 3D or the xtra memory on a video card?
Not much, I have a Duron 850 Mhz. Now using a 16M TNT2 Vanta AGP. Not much of an improvement in MAME between it and my 4M PCI Rendition Verite card, though.
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Right now I'm running a 500 mhz p3 with probly 128 mbs of ram. For all of the games I play - old school games, plus newer ones like puzzle bobble, king of fighters & metal slug; it works great.
Me too. I have an ATI Rage 128j which is fine for the two zinc games I run. Otherwise as others said for mame video card isn't really the issue. Mame doesn't use hardware acceleration.
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Well, I've used an Duron 900 with 512MB - it ran just about every game except hard drive games.
Then I used an Athlon XP 1700+ with 256MB and it runs just about every game (still drops frames on some of the newest roms - but that is not what this machine it for). I just wanted to run the Metal Slugs.
I'm also currently configuring a celeron 466 with 128 MB for a bartop. It is choppy on a lot of games, including most games from the 90s, and a lot of the late 80s games with heavy graphics.
I'd say anything above 400 mhz and 128MB if you want to run up to 1985. Around 1 Ghz / 256 MB will work til 1995 roughly. The late 90s likes the ~2+ ghz / 512 MB...
These are my *estimations* based on my experience. Decide what you want the cab to do, then get a computer that will do it. I spent $55 on the complete celeron 466...perfect for a little bartop to play the classics on.
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I agree with Paige... every time I point my browser to the forum there is a completely new thread asking what speed PC you need to run Mame.
Anyway, I saw a couple points that needed responding -
first off, if you see slowdown in a game, it might (as is the case with the Metal Slug games) be authentic. The Metal Slug games experience slowdown because the original hardware sometimes couldn't keep up with the sprites, and the original game slowed down so Mame faithfully does too.
Second, you guys are all used to pumping up your video card to get better PC game performance, but that's only because the PC games use hardware acceleration in them. Mame doesn't care how many polygons per second your chip can pump out. (next we'll have people asking which is better for Mame, the nVidia pixel shader routines, or the ATI shader routines.)
For a Mame grafix card, you might care if it can produce the special arcade refresh rate, and you might care if it has a TV out. I have a Radeon all-in-wonder card on my cab PC, because it has an S-Video out that makes nice pictures on my TV.
and would it hurt to flip back just a few pages to look for information? :'(
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I have a XP 1600 that runs anything up to Area 51 great. I recently got a new XP 2800+, and it did not improve performance for the games that didn't run well on the 1600 (i.e. Cruisn, etc., which ran at maybe 4fps on the 1600 was still unplayable.)
I think it's a tremendous waste to pay twice as much for a computer that only increases performance by 25%. The games that don't run well now will not be playable a year from now, so you might as well go with an affordable system that will play just as many games.
My $.02... :P
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Everyone eants what they cant have... its that game that you cant play that is the one you want to play, no matter how terrible the game.
You can always play Crusin USA on a good N64 Emulator in your Mame Cabinet, so its not like you /cant/ play it at all....
I have a 2400+ with 512Megs PC2700 and Crusin USA in Mame is still slow, So, if I get the desperate urge to play Crusin, I use a different emulator....
And as has been stated, Mame emulates the video, so it doesnt matter how big and powerful your Video card is, it will both perform and look exactly the same, regardless.... Now if you play PC Games on your Cabinet as well, then yes, having a better video card is beneficial, because those games are made to take advantage of the memory and processor on the Video Card.
I would like to say a quote that should mean a lot to those who seek more....
"If I cant have what I want, let me want what I have"
Now get out there and play some good old pacman!!! :)
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You have to understand video cards and 3d acceleration. When a new PC game comes out, like Deus Ex 2 which is coming out this week, they are programmed to take advantage of the 3d acceleration of video cards. Top of the line ATI and nVidia cards have specific instructions and programming calls that developers use in order to take advantage of the video cards memory and/or other special hardware in order to make the game run as fast as possible. There is 3d acceleration in pretty much every game that comes out nowadays.
Now look at Mame. Its emulation. The programmers are emulating the original hardware that ran these games. Yes, they could program the games to take advantage of the newest ATI Radeon and its special instructions (basically a hack to get the game to play faster), but then we have gotten away from the original point of Mame developement, which is to document and emulate the original hardware... Thats why you will not see big performance leaps between video cards in emulation.
True, pure emulation (which Mame is just about the most perfect example of) is almost all processor power and hardly any video processing power. If you are going to spend more money, put it toward a better processor, not a better video card.
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You should also realize that newer versions of Mame are slower. If you are using a 500 mhz processor, then don't use the current Mame, use something between .55 and .60 you will literally get twice the framerate.
There really hasn't been much anything good added since then anyway, except for some hard drive games and some other stuff that won't run right on that 500 anyway.
I was playing all those 90s games that are in Mame back when I had a 450 mhz K6-2. They all ran full speed (except the mortal kombats, and they were close). You just have to use an older Mame version.
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So with a 450mhz PIII, the best bet is .55 to .60? Are those versions still easy to find? Are any rom burners still burning those sets?
As for the video card issues... I'm a Mac guy, have been since '89, so I'm treading into new territory. The thing that sucks about my situation is that I'm building a vertical cab and want to run MameWah as my front end, so i have to buy a newer, more expensive card because the card has to be able to do display rotation. Kind of a drag...
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mame.net has just about every version of mame ever, and very few romsets have actually changed, the ones that have tend to have changed SEVERAL times. I seem to recall redownloading Garou like 3 versions in a row.
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I'd like to add that sometimes games which you'd think would run fine just run bad. My 1.4Ghz Athlon can't run Space Invaders '95 full speed for instance.
So for my cabinet I am going for the quickest I can afford, since I like to use the latest MAME versions, and I'd like it to last as long as possible...
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Ive been really wondering about the Xbox in this context... for use instead of a PC for an arcade/mame cabinet especially for shooters.
Specifically Im trying to find out if these shooters and those of similar recency (or up to what?) run perfect now or possibly will on Xbox with MameX or one of the arcade emulators with further development:
Strikers 1999
Strikers 1945 Plus
Battle Bakraid
Dangun Ferveron
ESP Ra.De.
Gunwange
Armed Batrider
DoDonPachi
Dragon Blaze
(do shooters/"shmups" usually take more or less processing power than other types of games?)
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After having my mame setup for close to a year and having a lot of gatherings and parties I look back and see all the things I thought I needed but didn't.
First up: A fast, good "bang for the buck" PC. I wanted to run as many games as possible. I have a good mix of newer and older games on my mame. Well, 95% of the time people are playing classics. Occasionally, people will play MK or MKII. I saw someone play NBA Jam once. I could have saved about $200 if I'd just limited my cabinet to classics.
Who cares about Cruisin' USA? I played it at an arcade recently (for the first time in a long time) and I was terribly disappointed. Even the real deal runs slowly!! No kidding, the game was choppy, like it runs in Mame on a fast PC but with frameskipping turned off. The gameplay just plain stank, IMO. I'm used to playing Virtua Racing which is infinitely more realistic. I didn't realize the huge difference before now, I expected more from Cruisin' since it has some graphics features that the VR lacks. I have a feeling that Mame will never be useful for good racing games (sans the true classics of course!).
Wade
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Ive been really wondering about the Xbox in this context... for use instead of a PC for an arcade/mame cabinet especially for shooters.
Specifically Im trying to find out if these shooters and those of similar recency (or up to what?) run perfect now or possibly will on Xbox with MameX or one of the arcade emulators with further development:
Strikers 1999
Strikers 1945 Plus
Battle Bakraid
Dangun Ferveron
ESP Ra.De.
Gunwange
Armed Batrider
DoDonPachi
Dragon Blaze
(do shooters/"shmups" usually take more or less processing power than other types of games?)
Don't know about performance but at a glance I can tell you Strikers 1945 Plus won't even load...it's like 75 megs zipped and the Xbox only sports 64 megs. You'd probably be better off with a cheap 1ghz p3.
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well if youre talking about strictly MAME you dont need a good videocard yes, but dont forget about emulation of other systems or just playing plain old PC games on your cabinet. im not sure if it exsists but gauntlet legends on PC would rock playing through a cabinet
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well if youre talking about strictly MAME you dont need a good videocard yes, but dont forget about emulation of other systems or just playing plain old PC games on your cabinet. im not sure if it exsists but gauntlet legends on PC would rock playing through a cabinet
sing it, sista!
/S
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I have a 2.03 ghz pc with 256 megs ram. It's runs all except some 3d polygon ones, perfectly. The best part was, dell screwed up on their site and instead of costing
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Interesting, this squares with my findings [see benchmarks on my page]. The high-end new Athlon 64's do not stack up well vs their P4 counterparts as far as Mame is concerned. I have a Athlon 64 3200+ next to a P4 2.5 and for the new Namcos11.c games for example the P4 is about the same speed. A P4 3.2 would be appropriate if all you're concerned about is Mame.
To support this statement:
I recently built and Athlon 64 3200+, overclocked it to 2.2Ghz and ran some of the 3d games. It maybe added 5-8fps vs. my 2400+.
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I have a 2.03 ghz pc with 256 megs ram. It's runs all except some 3d polygon ones, perfectly. The best part was, dell screwed up on their site and instead of costing
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Interesting, this squares with my findings [see benchmarks on my page]. The high-end new Athlon 64's do not stack up well vs their P4 counterparts as far as Mame is concerned. I have a Athlon 64 3200+ next to a P4 2.5 and for the new Namcos11.c games for example the P4 is about the same speed. A P4 3.2 would be appropriate if all you're concerned about is Mame.
To support this statement:
I recently built and Athlon 64 3200+, overclocked it to 2.2Ghz and ran some of the 3d games. It maybe added 5-8fps vs. my 2400+.
That's 'cuz there aren't any OSES (or software) optimized for it yet...its basically running in compatibility mode.
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I have a question to add to this back-and-forth-ary!
If you want to add other emulators, such as Playstation, and N64... but have an arcade monitor w/ Arcade VGA... can AVGA keep up with the games? Or is that a problem waiting to happen?