The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Project Announcements => Topic started by: MedievalMan on November 16, 2013, 10:43:00 pm
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Played the game for about half hour after picking it up today. Must be the SNK version of Contra.
Still in relatively good shape. Joysticks aren't that responsive, so I'm certainly going to use new controls.
I've read a few DIY articles so far, and am very excited to finally start this project after wanting to for many years.
I have a couple questions / areas for suggestions;
(1) Should I use a new LCD or use existing monitor?
From my understanding, using the arcade monitor (it's only a 19") would require a ~$100 video card to output the correct 15 kHz signal. I figure might as well get a 23-26" LCD that will fit the enclosure for maybe $100 more than that. I want to play games old and new, so that the old school games won't look 100% accurate isn't as important to me.
Can anyone suggest a good LCD for this purpose? I'm thinking contrast ratio and viewing angle are especially important.
(2) Arcade Controllers
I want something 2 player.
If it would fit the cabinet, would it be better to try to install an already built arcade stick such as
http://www.xgaming.com/store/arcade-joysticks-and-game-controllers/product/x-arcade-dual-joystick/ (http://www.xgaming.com/store/arcade-joysticks-and-game-controllers/product/x-arcade-dual-joystick/)
or make a wood panel, stencil out the layout, drill it, and use a kit:
http://www.xgaming.com/store/arcade-parts-and-accessories/product/4-player-x-arcade-builders-kit-usb-ps2/ (http://www.xgaming.com/store/arcade-parts-and-accessories/product/4-player-x-arcade-builders-kit-usb-ps2/)
http://www.xgaming.com/store/arcade-parts-and-accessories/product/two-player-build-your-own-arcade-bundle-pcb/ (http://www.xgaming.com/store/arcade-parts-and-accessories/product/two-player-build-your-own-arcade-bundle-pcb/)
To me it looks like the X-Arcade machine themselves went with the 1st approach.
http://www.xgaming.com/store/arcade-machines/product/x-arcade-machine-cabinet/ (http://www.xgaming.com/store/arcade-machines/product/x-arcade-machine-cabinet/)
(3) Optional Gamepad / Enclosure
For games better suited for gamepad, I'm thinking of some sort of mechanism to keep 2 extra controllers retractable from the cabinet and handy to use.. maybe something similar to what game stores have used for console displays.. Any interesting ideas for this?
(4) Software
I'm reading MAME is handy here and can launch other emulators. I've used SNES, N64, Sega Genesis, etc emulators in the past, this seems like a handy feature - especially for an arcade unit where I'd like to be able to easily select from 1000's of different games and platforms.
Thanks!
Matt
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Hey Matt,
Welcome.
I'd say the general feel around here is to stay away from x arcade stuff as its kinda junky.
Number one piece of advice I think is to study alot. Read the project posts on this site and really get an understanding of what has worked well and hasn't for others.
Be careful in your planning and think hard about what you must have as opposed to what you can live without.
It's easy to want every bell & whistle just to end up with an overcrowded cab that's not very playable.
There are some games that I like but they don't play well on my cab so I either go without or play them on something else.
As far as CRT vs LCD goes, it's really preference and again what's important to you.
Personally I have a CRT in my cabinet, but they were alot easier to get then as compared to now.
I have another emulator rig that I use hooked upto a. 32 LCD.
I use it for mame and console emulation. Truthfully I'm pretty happy with it on the LCD using scan line overlays.
As far as the software goes, mame is for the emulation of arcade games not consoles.
You will want to look into a frontend for bringing all the systems together. Check out Mala and Hyperspin as well as others.
One solution for having game pads to use for console games or player 3 & 4 on games like the Simpsons or tmnt, is to put external USB ports on the cabinet. Then you can jack in game pads as needed.
I personally don't care for using game pads on my cabinet. I'd rather sit on my couch to play consoles. Although some console games take real nice to actual arcade controls.
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Hey Matt,
Welcome.
I'd say the general feel around here is to stay away from x arcade stuff as its kinda junky.
Number one piece of advice I think is to study alot. Read the project posts on this site and really get an understanding of what has worked well and hasn't for others.
Be careful in your planning and think hard about what you must have as opposed to what you can live without.
It's easy to want every bell & whistle just to end up with an overcrowded cab that's not very playable.
There are some games that I like but they don't play well on my cab so I either go without or play them on something else.
As far as CRT vs LCD goes, it's really preference and again what's important to you.
Personally I have a CRT in my cabinet, but they were alot easier to get then as compared to now.
I have another emulator rig that I use hooked upto a. 32 LCD.
I use it for mame and console emulation. Truthfully I'm pretty happy with it on the LCD using scan line overlays.
As far as the software goes, mame is for the emulation of arcade games not consoles.
You will want to look into a frontend for bringing all the systems together. Check out Mala and Hyperspin as well as others.
One solution for having game pads to use for console games or player 3 & 4 on games like the Simpsons or tmnt, is to put external USB ports on the cabinet. Then you can jack in game pads as needed.
I personally don't care for using game pads on my cabinet. I'd rather sit on my couch to play consoles. Although some console games take real nice to actual arcade controls.
Xarcade is not junky, maybe not first choice, unless you plan to use consoles in your cabinet then X arcade is a must.
Weight is not an issue for a full size cab so leave the CRT in.
Don't be afraid to make mistakes.
Don't be afraid to ask questions on this site.
Keep us updated. :applaud:
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Ok, maybe junky wasn't the right word.
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Thinking of going with the X-arcade for controls - maybe I'll try a full custom controls if I made another arcade unit :)
Trying to decide which would be better, fitting the existing X-Arcade 2 player unit or making a custom unit via kit + drilling holes into a wood panel.
I'm lucky that the X Arcade 2 player controller will just fit the width of the existing arcade - 24.25" (it's like that must be an arcade standard for them to be the exact same size :)
As for games I'm considering are mostly NES-N64 era, maybe some a bit later for MAME, maybe the CRT would work. Isn't the arcade monitor video signal output equivalent to 640x480?
Also curious if there are any motherboards with a video card capable of outputting this signal, or if dedicated video card is the must way to go.
It's just that a bigger monitor (up to 24" wide) could fit in the cabinet - maybe a 25-27" diagonal 4:3 LCD (though tough to find..99% are 16:9 now).
Good idea for the USB ports on the side or front of the cabinet - will do that!
Thanks
-Matt
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I'm reading up a bit more on arcade monitor 15 kHz options,
(1)
Set the frequency of your existing video card to 15 khz with the help of a special software called a Tweaker. This can be done directly through front-ends for MAME such as ArcadeOS or AdvanceMAME for examples. This option as one major drawback, besides its initial setup and tuning which may be tricky: you have to delay the powering of your monitor, in order to wait for the Operating System and the Tweaker to load first.
(Not sure how well this works)
(2)
Or an modded ATI Radeon with native 15 kHz frequency support (supports 640x480 or 800x600 15 kHz)- about $90+tax
http://www.ultimarc.com/arcadeperfect.html (http://www.ultimarc.com/arcadeperfect.html)
Also thinking, what about support for multiple monitors? Would using the 19" CRT + an bigger LCD be feasible or useful for many games?..
However,
looking up the specs of this arcade monitor,
http://www.arcade-museum.com/M/Midnight_Resistance.html (http://www.arcade-museum.com/M/Midnight_Resistance.html)
Monitor:
Orientation: Horizontal
Type: Raster: Standard Resolution
CRT: Color
STANDARD RESOLUTION
HORIZONTAL VERTICAL
Scan Frequency: 15.72 KHz Scan Frequency: 60.0 Hz
Scan Period: 63.6 µSec Scan Period: 16.7 mSec
Active Video: 46.9 µSec Active Video: 15.3 mSec
Video Delay: 11.9 µSec Video Delay: 1.2 mSec
Sync Pulse: 4.7 µSec Sync Pulse: 0.2 mSec
Scan Line: 456 Pixels Screen: 262 Lines
Resolution: 336 Pixels Resolution: 240 Lines
Clock Freq: 7.16 MHz
Not sure if that would be sufficient for all games I'm looking for (some would need atleast 640x480?)
Matt
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I guess yet another option would be to get a 19-22" CRT (biggest that would fit in existing cabinet) and use that instead of the arcade monitor... LCD only looks optimal at it's native resolution (not lower resolutions), the arcade monitor only has a low resolution, maybe CRT would be a balance between the two.
Decisions decisions.
-Matt
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Ok, I have built out a lot of these things. This is a first project, so lets keep it in the first project realm.
X-Arcade is junky. Your controls should be your absolute priority in your build budget. The x-arcade controls are basically a cheap knock off of the worst arcade controls ever available.
Monitor. You want a 21" CRT PC monitor early to mid 2000s vintage, should be had easily on craigslist for $25-$50. You don't want an LCD. Emulation natively has a small input lag and lcd monitors have a small display lag. Separately most people can't detect either, but together a lot of people notice it. If you REALLY have the bucks to spend, some distributors still have some 27" VGA (or tri mode) real crt arcade monitors left in stock. Expect to pay $400-$500. The quality on those last ever crts is not so great, although realistically you will probably go 20 years with one at home before you have a problem.
As for what you emulate. Stop at Sega Genesis. After that analog controls (that you don't have) and shoulder buttons used directionally (which don't translate well to arcade controls) become very prevalent and suck the joy out of a lot of games. It is all great and fun to play a game that expects an analog stick with an 8 way and then encounter a section that is IMPOSSIBLE TO PASS WITH AN 8-WAY (looking at you Lego Star Wars that is supposedly fine with 8way gamepads).
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Also, if you want personal email support from a very experience builder, then just send me that Midnight Resistance circuit board (one I don't have in my collection) and I will answer your email questions for the next year.
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Thanks for the offer. Personal email assistance would be great ;)
It does seem CRT would offer the best solution- and I can find 21" IBM or Viewsonic models for <$30 on Kijiji that should fit the enclosure. Instead of spending $200 on a 24" LCD, or $100 for an extra 15 KhZ video card for the low res arcade monitor to work, dump that money into controls instead.
If really wanted to play N64+ or games that need analog control, I'm probably going to a USB port on the side/front for gamepads.
-Matt
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I don't think I'll have the urge to hookup the Wii or PS2/3 to the arcade unit, so I guess I can do something better than X-Arcade for controls.
http://www.ultimarc.com/ipac1.html (http://www.ultimarc.com/ipac1.html)
For Arcade I/O - PC I/O (32 i/o should be plenty.. .I'm planning 2 player, 2 joysticks maybe 8 buttons each?
$39
I'm familiar with the wiring interface - motor driver interaces I've built in the past have used similar.
What about a full analog stick (not sure if they'd work as well for digital inputs quite as well just through software map, but they have a 8 way restriction option too)
http://www.ultimarc.com/ultrastik_info.html (http://www.ultimarc.com/ultrastik_info.html)
$59 a piece... but only need 2.
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Also, if you want personal email support from a very experience builder, then just send me that Midnight Resistance circuit board (one I don't have in my collection) and I will answer your email questions for the next year.
:laugh2:
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Btw, Paige is a very experienced builder, and I agree with his points.
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<--- Will work for PCBs.
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The U360 stick from Ultimarc is a very popular stick around here.
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Back off ya' vultures...I got dibs with a cash offer before all y'all's. :)
So, how about that cash offer...? I can see why you didn't reply to my PM now...
Lots of experienced builders here willing to give you advice and you don't have to send them all PCBs.
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Ive been buying video cards that are compatible with soft 15khz for about $15 shipped...
I would make your own control panel using 2x "Zero Delay USB Encoder"s
I would stick with the CRT so you dont have to buy a HD monitor AND you get to keep the CRT, classic games are better on CRT, its a fact.
It sounds like you have a lot of learning to do before youre ready though, I would spend more time planning before you start buying stuff and finding out you don't need/want it.
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Thanks for the suggestions guys.
I have a lot of learning to do - but already found out/read about ZD Encoders. Definitely will be using those for my arcade controls. Hopefully I can catch on quick - my background is in EE and I was an avoid user of NES-N64 era emulators :)
I like about the ZD encoders:
a) They have quick connectors instead of having to splice wires like the standard I/O boards (like the IPAC and motor drivers I've worked with in the past).
b) Appears as a gamepad in Windows.
I haven't ordered anything yet - I plan to try to order by early December though, would like to start this project during 2 week Christmas break.
I'm thinking of getting 2x U360's for the joysticks (analog and digital control). Also getting the optional wiring harness and connecting the 8 way discrete outputs from the joystick to the ZD encoder 8 way joystick inputs. This way each player's U360 joystick and 6-8 buttons will come up as a single gamepad. The analog control of each stick would still be available from the U360 standard USB output (better make sure I get a |PC with at least 6-8 USB inputs!)
I'm not sure if I need the authenticity of getting the option mechanical 4/8 way hard stops for this joystick.
Does anyone have any recommendations for buttons? Otherwise will probably get them along with U360's.
Thanks
Matt
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bimm25e ,
Did you mean to keep the 19" Arcade low res CRT or install a 21" higher resolution CRT as others suggested?
My only concern is the low resolution of the arcade monitor, and it's output is a bit dim compared to newer CRT's - not sure if that's mainly the monitor or PCB video output though.
Thanks.
Matt
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Thanks for the suggestions guys.
I have a lot of learning to do - but already found out/read about ZD Encoders. Definitely will be using those for my arcade controls. Hopefully I can catch on quick - my background is in EE and I was an avoid user of NES-N64 era emulators :)
I like about the ZD encoders:
a) They have quick connectors instead of having to splice wires like the standard I/O boards (like the IPAC and motor drivers I've worked with in the past).
b) Appears as a gamepad in Windows.
c) they're cheap! :)
Just be sure to get it from somewhere that has a good exchange/return policy. I've been reading that some people have received faulty units.
I'm not sure if I need the authenticity of getting the option mechanical 4/8 way hard stops for this joystick.
For me, it's night and day. I love the physical gates of 4 way controls, for games like Burgertime and DK especially. Those games are so harsh and finite for the cardinal directions that it can be really frustrating without a physical restriction.
But U360's are great sticks too, you really can't go wrong there.
I want to try out Ultimarc's Servo stick, which is based on the Sanwa JLW (the japanese stick that feels more like a north american one...), but I don't have an application for it right now.
JLW's are great all-round sticks as well.
Does anyone have any recommendations for buttons? Otherwise will probably get them along with U360's.
Do you like the classic north american style Happs buttons? With the concave plungers?
Or the feel of the Japanese style Sanwa/Seimitsu buttons you see featured on most modern-day arcade sticks? Those are convex buttons, with light actuation.
My personal favourite is the Seimitsu japanese buttons. They aren't as light as the Sanwa's, but still have a quicker actuation than Happs w/ cherry switches. The only downside is the seimitsu's are short, so you'll have to mount it in a panel with less than a 1/4" thickness. All the japanese buttons come in a plethora of colours.
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X-Arcades are nice controllers. The only people that truly dislike them are butthurt because they couldn't get $1,500 for their junky MAME cabinets anymore, just like those before them are butthurt over TV joysticks killing off their $1,500 Ms PacMan customers.
If you're going to do a cabinet, it seems a little silly and wasteful to utilize an X-Arcade as a control panel. But you can spend a lot of money on buttons and joysticks and nobody will notice or care.
I don't think anyone has even come close to the functionality it offers on consoles.... I guess that weird KADE thing that jumped from $10 to $40 and requires a degree in computer science.
:cheers:
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You mentioned the 8 outputs from the u360s. Remember an 8 way joystick uses only 4 inputs of an encoder. It's just 8 way in that it allows two switches to be hit at once.
Also the u360 allows for 8 inputs so depending on how many buttons you plan on going with, it's possible in some cases to have no encoder. The u360s act as the encoder.
I'm also a fan of true restriction and I'm a fan of Jlws. Some will poo poo them but with some tweaking they make great sticks.
They definitely don't do well for Frogger which needs a nice tight 4-way
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I guess that weird KADE thing that jumped from $10 to $40 and requires a degree in computer science.
I can tell you missed the evolution of KADE whiile you were gone. ::)
You appear to be comparing price difference between a Minimus AVR without pins or screw terminals ($10) to who knows what. (the regular KADE currently sells for $29 and the micro sells for $35)
The KADE Loader (http://kadevice.com/loader/setup.zip) GUI software for loading firmwares/customizing keymaps is easy to use and includes directions/pictures/diagrams -- or do you think that pulldown menus require "a degree in computer science." :lol
(http://i.imgur.com/yC48FAGl.jpg)
Scott
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Now I have more things to consider ;)
opt2not,
Maybe I will get those optional 4/8 way restriction plates for the U360.
How difficult are these to remove/add?
It's too bad there's no U360 stick with a servo motor to automatically place/remove the restriction plates - that would be cool ;)
mgb,
Thanks for the note. I didn't realize the U360 also had inputs for buttons - I am planning 8 buttons so can probably just use that instead of the ZD encoder. This way there will be 1 USB output for each controller (U360 + 8 button inputs), instead of 1 USB for the analog stick and 1 USB from the ZD encoder.
-Matt
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I can tell you missed the evolution of KADE whiile you were gone. ::)
I was around when it started off as "We're gonna be CHEAP!" and turned into, "we're gonna cost just as much, if not more, but we'll be BETTER!" I admittedly lost interest immediately.
:cheers:
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Do you like the classic north american style Happs buttons? With the concave plungers?
Or the feel of the Japanese style Sanwa/Seimitsu buttons you see featured on most modern-day arcade sticks? Those are convex buttons, with light actuation.
My personal favourite is the Seimitsu japanese buttons. They aren't as light as the Sanwa's, but still have a quicker actuation than Happs w/ cherry switches. The only downside is the seimitsu's are short, so you'll have to mount it in a panel with less than a 1/4" thickness. All the japanese buttons come in a plethora of colours.
I think I'm going to use the U360's - I'm not sure what the minimum panel thickness would be for installing these guys just yet, and if <1/4" thickness would cause issue. The Seimitsu do seem nice (I played arcades mostly when I was younger when they were common everywhere.. can't recall well enough which button styles I preferred). I guess I can go with the Happs style if I need to use a thicker panel than 1/4".
On that note, for the control panel, is there a type of wood that works best? Definitely will need to cover it with some laminate or something for finishing (going to think of a cool design / artwork to put on it). Another option would be the plexi-glass likes on the existing unit (but would need to cut that too to fit).
-Matt
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Mdf or plywood will work well.
Remember when counting buttons, you will need inputs for coin and starts
Are you planning on having a trackball?
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I can tell you missed the evolution of KADE whiile you were gone. ::)
I was around when it started off as "We're gonna be CHEAP!" and turned into, "we're gonna cost just as much, if not more, but we'll be BETTER!" I admittedly lost interest immediately.
:cheers:
I don't remember that bit :dunno
You can still grab yourself and AVR and load it up with KADE firmware if you want to save $ . It's open so you can do that.
Sure we make a little on those units we sell with PCBs/Terminals but that funds our hobby with most or all of the proceeds going back into development.
:)
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Are there any Canadian sellers of U360/Ultimac products?
Or will I need to order them from the US?
I've been reading various posts on using U360's as analog and 4/8 way sticks - seems some people like them and others not so much for the 4/8 way operation.
Trying to decide if it would be better to go with 2 standard sticks and 1 analog, or 2 analogs and use them for 4/8 way operation as well.
Thanks!
Matt
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Picked up the PC (3.4 Ghz dual core, 8 GB ram, Radeon 6450 1 GB vid card, 200 GB SSD drive) -just a "low end desktop" but should suffice.
Should even run even relatively new PC games at low/medium settings, and for MAME and up to N64/PS1 emulation with no issue.
Love the Solid state drive, Windows 7 boots up in like 15 sec flat!
Also got the 21" CRT:
http://kitchener.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-computer-accessories-monitors-View-Sonic-21-inch-CRT-Monitor-with-USB-Hub-W0QQAdIdZ546881851 (http://kitchener.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-computer-accessories-monitors-View-Sonic-21-inch-CRT-Monitor-with-USB-Hub-W0QQAdIdZ546881851)
Think I'll just order the controls directly for Ultimac products - hopefully will get here by Christmas break :/
A couple questions,
(1) Windows 7 OK for MAME/console emulation, or should I revert back to Windows XP?
(2) I'm thinking maybe a NES themed arcade, might get some inspiration from something similar to:
http://imgur.com/gallery/ajacB. (http://imgur.com/gallery/ajacB.)
(not going to do a trackball for this one though)
With 8 buttons available for each U360 stick, I'd have enough for 6 buttons + select/start 2 buttons.
How important is the "coin" button for MAME? Could it be mapped to maybe one of the other 2 "start/select" buttons?
Or I could get one extra IPAC for any excess buttons...
Cheers,
Matt
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Going with the following for controls:
2 x GoldLeaf Pushbuttons (black)
12 x GoldLeaf Pushbuttons (red)
2 x Joystick Mounting Kits (5mm for U360)
1 x Start Logo Pushbuttons Black (1 player).
1 x Start Logo Pushbuttons Black. (2 player)
2 x UltraStik 360 Oval Top with USB cable (black oval top)
2 x UltraStik Button / Encoder Harness
2 x UltraStik Front-Mounted Restrictor Kit
Total: $231.10
Looks like the front mount restrictor plate will be my best bet for easy swap out - pure 4/8 way stick would be ideal for older games but this is my next best bet to have something that will cover the widest range of games.
Anything I'm missing? Looks like the gold leaf pushbuttons should fit in the 3/4" thick panel that I'd be using.
To me it seems the main difference between these and the Classic Pushbuttons would be the classics having a longer plunger, more "physical actuation" feel? I'm thinking the gold leaf will be better for a wider selection of games?
Thanks
Matt
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Will get a few buttons for spares in case I plan additional optional buttons, and get a ZD encoder for them.
I only have a 24" x 7" surface to work with (using framework of existing unit), don't want to make it too crowded...
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Control panel joysticks, buttons and interfacing already made it to Canada from the UK, should be here this week I suspect.
So I need to start planning out the physical part in the meantime :)
Reading up on control panel physical construction,
I'm thinking 5/8" MDF with a 1/8" clear polycarb layer on top (instead of plexi - less prone to cracking) - total approx 3/4" thick
I have a hand saw, good electric drill, and will get some 1 1/8" bits for drilling the joystick/button holes.. should this be enough tools for the job?
Is it better to try to drill through both the polycarb/ 5/8" MDF at the same time, or copy the layout to both and drill separately (probably harder to line up afterwards though).
Thanks again for the advice.
Matt
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For drilling, I highly recommend a forstner bit. I find they work a lot better than the classic spade bits, giving me a cleaner hole when cut.
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Hey Matt do you need somebody to take those rotary joys of your hands? (Assuming since it had midnight resistance in there that it had rotary joysticks)
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Harvey,
I could send them to you for the price of shipping only.
However, they are not that responsive - I sometimes have to move a few circles in order to get them to move in the desired direction, and sometimes they don't move the right way (maybe the kids who used this unit were too rough with them over the years?)
I've managed to get about half way though the game (haven't finished it yet - it's more difficult when you have to finish all in one sitting - how did kids finish this game with quarter back in the day? :)) , but without unlimited lives it would nigh impossible :)
-Matt
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Figured I might as well post a pic of the before state before I start taking things apart (gotta beat the game in it's original state first though! :))
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2diew47.jpg)
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Thanks for the bit suggestion. I'll pick those up with the MDF and plexi.
I looked and they also had acrylic sheets on smaller more appropriate sizes near the plexi. Its clear and seems just as durable as the plexi..Would it be suitable? Could cut it without needing a skill saw.
Also, given I'm modding am existing cab, what would you guys recommend for fitting the new control panel to existing cab (certainly would need to remove the existing control panel top.
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Do you have access to a metal brake? A metal panel would be sweet. Too bad you're not closer i have access to one.
Acrylic isn't as strong. I suggest you take a peek at selfie's plastic thread in the woodworking forum. Lots of good info there.
Hinging it so it opens forward is a nice feature for easy access to the under side of the panel.
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If you're on a budget, AND if you're putting wood on as a base underneath, the acrylic will do you fine. Personally I like Lexan, it's pretty f-ing strong, but it's a bit more pricey. Especially up here in Canada.
A metal panel would be best though. If you can find a metal shop, I'm sure they can repro a panel for you, with a layout you can specify.
I'm not a fan of the plexi style panels. I'd rather have a clean metal or wood one and put that tough artwork on it and that's it. Plexi on panels are for those who are afraid of spilling, but it's a false fear, because even if you do spill, liquids will penetrate the panel through button and joystick holes anyways.
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Yeah I'm starting to rethink the Plexi and might consider just the durable artwork as you suggested...
Agree metal would be ideal for this stick, but want to try to build myself with the wood :)
After trying to install the front mount restrictor kit on the the U360 I discovered the long handle threading doesn't fit the bat style handle, only the ball style :/
Looks like I'll need to order a couple black ball style tops (Andy has a bat style handle with the smaller thread, but only in red).... Hopefully can get those in quick :)
Matt
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I fully agree on the metal panel. There is no better way, but with u360 top load restrictor thing-a-ma-jig, you need wood.
Still I'd recommend using polycarb vinly printed art from gameongrafix and forgetting about the acrylic.
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Harvey,
I like the hinge idea for the cp. Do you just make sure there's plenty of slack for the USB cables from the encoders to the PC? Anything else to in particular to consider? Thanks.
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Yes you'll need to make sure your wiring has a good amount of slack for when you open it.
here's an example of an open hinged panel. the wires have plenty of moving room
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=175421;image)
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MGB shows flawless execution of the concept. Some well placed zip ties will keep the stress off the connections.
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A few well placed loop clamps will help, too.
Scott
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MGB,
Thanks for the pic, that makes things much clearer! I will try my best to do half as clean of job as yours. :)
On the software side, I'm mostly complete using a subset of the Hyperspin Project.
I decided to go with NES-N64 era console games and all of MAME, Daphne. Skipped Dreamcast, PS1 for now as those games are too large.. maybe as an upgrade in the future.
Did get the PS2 emulator working well (46-60 fps) after tinkering with a few settings, just wanted it for a few games. God of War 1 (which I completed and really liked, never finished the series though), God of War 2 and Shadow of Colossus for now (which I have always wanted to play but my PS2 recently stopped working...)
For PC games, just a few to chose from that might be fun on the CAB (I've only played HL2 ep1, Undying and Carmaggedon on this list)
Street Fighter 4
Mortal Kombat Komplete
Injustice: Gods Among Us (Saw Conan O'Brien's skit on this game... just had to get it! :)
Need for Speed Pursuit
Carmaggedon Max
Undying
Farcry 3
Half Life 2 ep1,2
Orcs Must Die 2
Battlefield 3
BioShock
A couple questions,
(1) Anyone play FPS shooters once and a while on their cabs? I'm thinking 1 joystick for movement and then a wireless mouse for pointing, shooting and jumping, but that almost defeats the purpose of using the CAB. Light gun wouldn't be practical either as you couldn't logistically use the joystick/buttons at the same time...
(2) As awesome as it is having all NES-N64 and MAME games to pick from with artwork and video clips, it's not very practical. I've read a few threads where people make a list of about 200-400 games, which seems reasonable. I'd like to have the best of both worlds if possible, having all games available, but also a subset for each console/platform. Any way to do this within Hyperspin?
Category subsets would be nice too- instead of all MAME, break it up into beat-em ups, fighters, shooters, racing, etc. The MAME list is of games is huge.
Matt
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Also trying to beat the original Midnight Resistance today and/or tomorrow... if only I could pause the damn thing ;)
So many things to consider for these type of projects :)
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For Hyperspin looks like I'll need to just make seperate main categories instead of sub categories. Oh well.
I beat Midnight Resistance over the weekend (wasn't as long as I thought it was going to be.... a bit of a challenge with the somewhat unresponse rotation with the rotary joysticks but I quite enjoyed it).
Finally opened up the back to see what I was dealing with, and it has brought up a couple questions
(1) Speakers
I’ve read a few posts on builds using an amplifier from the PC headphone output jack to the existing speaker(s), but often needed a more expensive power supply or separate power supply to avoid excessive noise / hum, perhaps a cap as a low pass filter could help. The single mono speaker won’t be enough for what I want, so I don’t think it’s worth investing time trying to get that speaker to work well with the PC in addition to a set of PC speakers. I have a $80 pair of Creative speakers my wife doesn’t like me using with the main TV in the the living room.. think I’ll use those. Any other suggestions for audio?
(2) Monitor
(http://i40.tinypic.com/2nng5t.jpg)
I have a 21” VIewsonic CRT that will just fit Depth wise, height about 2” of clearance and width about 3” to spare inside the existing enclosure once I remove the existing Arcade CRT.
For the depth, I think the existing monitor will stick out about an inch unless I place the monitor slightly closer to the user than the existing monitor. With that tight of space I worry about ventilation.
Should I keep the CRT monitor in it’s casing and maybe add some holes in the back of the cab for ventiliation, or remove the CRT from it’s casing like the existing Arcade monitor? I’d prefer to leave the PC monitor intact, but thought I’d get some experience builders suggestion on this…
Wonder if there’s anyone locally to sell the arcade monitor too… guess I could put it up on Kijiji.
(3) Discharging CRT capacitor
Seems can be done with alligator clips and screw driver …
http://www.andysarcade.net/personal/tech/discharging.txt (http://www.andysarcade.net/personal/tech/discharging.txt)
I have a good respect for all things electrical, but is this necessary? I’m just removing the whole arcade monitor, not disassembling it. Seems there’s no need in that case.
http://www.ultimarc.com/monfaq.html (http://www.ultimarc.com/monfaq.html)
(4) Control Panel
I still like the hinge idea, but wondering if it might be overkill considering I’ll have a front mount restrictor that I can change from the tops. Still convenient if I ever want to swap out button colours or troubleshoot any issues though.
I’ve got my arcade panel layout completed (rough draft); using the layout I liked best from
http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/layout.html (http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/layout.html)
(http://i40.tinypic.com/53jzh1.jpg)
(single side layout only, repeated on other side)
Not sure what I’m going to do for artwork.. I was originally going to go with just painted black/grey to make it look like a NES controller.. .. will have to think on this some more.
Here’s what it’s there right now that I’ll be removing
(http://i44.tinypic.com/nl8v9t.jpg)
Thanks again for the tips.
Matt
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I know you think you need 8 buttons but trust me when I say you should keep it at 6 - extra buttons make games more difficult to play - the only thing the 8 would come in handy for are going to be n64/psx/ps2 emulators and since you probably don't have analog sticks, (esp 2 per player for psx/ps2) you'll still be left "wanting" for those emulators.
IF you're married to the idea of more buttons it wouldn't be a bad idea to use convex buttons for the 6 and concave buttons for the last 2 - this tactile feedback will at least help you understand why your guy is getting his ass kicked in MVC2 instead of calling the partner assist
I have a 6 button/player CP and I have to say that the extra buttons in 2/3/4 button games make keeping your fingers on the right buttons complicated. make a couple shoebox joypads to test 6 vs 8 button layouts - you'll quickly see what I mean
also DISCHARGE the damn monitor! it takes all of 10 seconds and could save you from getting hurt, or more realistically, getting zapped and dropping your expensive stuff as a knee-jerk reaction. its quite easy to make a discharge tool with a screwdriver and 3 feet of wire and some duct tape.
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I agree, I buttons can make for unnecessary confusion.
Way late on your discharge question but just in case you haven't
taken it out yet, there's no need to discharge if your only
removing the monitor.
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Hi guys,
Thanks for the advice. To get the button color I wanted (ended up going with a lighter blue) I ended up getting different buttons (microswitch) instead of the gold leaf from Ultimarc for the 7+8 button positions. The convex/concave idea is even better, wish I had thought of it :) but this should help distinguish them somewhat. I already have more buttons than I need, guess I could order more :)
I agree 8 buttons is overkill for 99% of games (even console games which only require 1 analog stick). 4 buttons, 4 fingers - it seemed to fit my hand well but guess I'll find out. I suppose you wouldn't need to keep your pinky fingers on buttons 7,8 for most games so that should reduce the hand strain (I'm still new to this....).
The rest of the functional part of the cab is complete, but I haven't yet started assembly of the most important part, the controls. It's been very cold for the past few weeks (polar vortex- brrr), too cold to work in the garage even with my small electric space heater ;)
So far I:
Monitor + Bezel Installation
- Removed the old 19" arcade monitor (didn't discharge though the process is relatively simple)
- Removed everything else I wouldn't need (isolation transformer, power supply, game PCB)
- There was already a platform above the floor level surface that fit the PC tower perfectly. Put it there with an L bracket to hold in place.
- Moved the shelf holding the monitor down about 3" to properly fit the new 21" CRT
- Accidentally broke the 21" monitor (Viewsonic, 2001 era) I had bought (for $30) - I think lifting it up upright and then turning 90 deg did it in, I obviously didn't do that with the next monitor. The monitor showed only a vertical line that changed in color with the picture signal, meaning the horizontal beam circuit must have been bad. I didn't want to bother opening up the monitor casing so I opted to find a better monitor.
- Got a better 22" monitor (NEC 2005 era professional - paid $60) - it was 10 lbs lighter and fit the existing enclosure I had made much better.
- Placed the monitor in the shelf. The shelf is on about a 10 deg angle I think (I used the same angle as existing). The monitor stays in place with friction, but to be safe I cut a piece of MDF (conveniently 24" the width of the cab so not too much cutting to do) and screwed it in to support the monitor from the back.
(When I move the cabinet, I will simply remove the monitor and that supporting piece of MDF.. it would be too heavy with it installed I think).
- Cleaned up the existing bezel, looks great with the new monitor. I'm glad this piece is in good condition because it's not arbitrary to find/make one. :)
Speakers
- Opted to not both hooking up the small mono speaker the came with cab (I didn't remove it). I did read posts where you could install your own audio amplifier on the audio output jack to drive the speakers, but it's tinny and not stereo so I didn't bother.
- I have a nice $100 Creative PC/home theatre speakers (2, no woofer but they have nicely balanced base) that I rarely ever use in my living room (my wife hates them.. :)
- I installed these into the cab, they fit nicely beside the monitor and sound great.
Power
- I got a powerbar with a master outlet ($25). Powering on/off the PC power switch powers on the speakers and monitor.
- Just planned this, haven't did it yet, could someone confirm if this a good approach (I have a background in EE so I can handle circuit speak ;))
-There's a nice toggle switch that came with the cabinet (it's actually on top of the CAB) that I'm going to move to an easy place to access
-Toggling the switch sets the internal circuit to open or closed (shorted).
-However, from what I've read, PC power supplies/motherboards need to have this open/closed state sent only for a short time. I.E. if you hold down the power button on the PC to power it up, it will power on and then shutoff.
- To make the switch from a permanent on/off to a temporary on/off needed for the PC power supply;
- I'll measure the resistance R of the switch using my multimeter, and hookup a capacitor in series to get a RC time constant of about 1 second.
- When the switch is toggled, the circuit will initially be closed and allow current to pass through, but then become open once the capacitor becomes charged.
Control Panel Preparation
- Got 3/4" MDF cut to required size (7.5"x24", the larger piece is 24" wide) - got quite a few pieces this size cut for practice (I haven't routed since grade 9... :))
- I bought a router table and router, as well a jigsaw (I've used these in the past to install laminate flooring)
- As I bought the top mount swappable restrictor plate for the U360, I'm going to follow the following top mount guide"
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=90467.40 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=90467.40)
- I also bought
T
Sold some parts I wouldn't need that would help offset my initial purchase of the CAB in (mostly) working condition;
- Sold the PCB to a local forum member :) if
- Sold the monitor on Kijiji, was fun to have discuss in person with a fellow arcade enthusiast - he's going to use the monitor for a PACMAN restore. I did get his contact info- if I decide to get printed laminate graphics him and his buddy just bought a 24"+ printer and kit designed for it.
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Accidentally hit reply. Here's the remainder of my post:
Control Panel Preparation
- Removed the existing metal control panel. It was actually on a hinge system.
- Bought a Logitech PC gamepad to use to test out MAME/Hypersin while CP is under construction (will also act as player 3 if needed)
- Decided I probably don't need to make this one on a hinge system as I'll be able to swap the restrictor plates from the top. The CP will be secured to the CAB with a 2 screws on each side which can be removed if I ever need to change or debug something.
- Got 3/4" MDF cut to required size (7.5"x24", the larger piece is 24" wide) - got quite a few pieces this size cut for practice (I haven't routed since grade 9... :))
- I bought a router table and router on sale, as well a jigsaw (I've used these in the past to install laminate flooring)
- As I bought the top mount swappable restrictor plate for the U360, I'm going to follow the following top mount guide:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=90467.40 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=90467.40)
- Decided on installing escape, pause, load, save buttons on the underside of the CP (these auxillary buttons will be interaced to the PC with a ZD encoder)
- Bought a small sheet of acrylic plexi too, not sure if I'm going to use this or go the laminate artwork approach.
For the artwork for the CP, I'm trying to weigh my options:
- Custom artwork submitted to website and printed out as per previous suggestions
- From what I've read you need to install these before you assemble the CP though
or
Painting
I'm leaning towards painting as I just want to go with a dark grey (almost black) background with a light grey trimming (similar to a NES controller).
There's not a lot of spare real estate to make the full blown artwork design to be worth it, I think.
I've tried painting the MDF with acrylic, it doesn't look too bad, but would require multiple coats/sanding. Is it easier/look better to just paint the back of the acrylic plexi instead? I was going to try both approaches on scrap to see what looks better.
Thanks again for the suggestions and advice,
Matt
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I'm not sure if you've decided on what you're going to use for the control panel but if that is a metal control panel already there, what if you had the existing holes filled by welding.
There are many welding shops that can do it cheap then the welds can be ground down and you can redrill. Then for artwork, some polycarb from gameongrafix.
You just wouldn't want to drill your cp until you have the template of the finished art.
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Ok, maybe junky wasn't the right word.
I think you meant crappy ;-) We are generally hard on pre-fab stuff as most of us are DIY folks. If building a control panel seems a bit daunting the X&^-Arcade couldn't hurt. You will pay more than you would if you build it yourself. Have fun.
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Ok, maybe junky wasn't the right word.
I think you meant crappy ;-) We are generally hard on pre-fab stuff as most of us are DIY folks. If building a control panel seems a bit daunting the X&^-Arcade couldn't hurt. You will pay more than you would if you build it yourself. Have fun.
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Plexi isnt just for spills.
Its also used for:
1) Keep surface clean as possible.
A persons hands tend to have a lot of oils and grimy filth on their hands... which when you sweat, it gets embedded into whatever you are touching. A Control panel, on a popular game, in a busy arcade / location... would turn BLACK from filth, in two weeks time.
Some artwork has ridges. These help absorb and hide said grime due to more surface area.. as well as provide a cooler CP with better airflow... BUT, they are also much harder to clean. Eventually, cleaning them with abrasives, may cause quick wear.
2) Peeling Artwork
CP material tends to separate from the Control Panel over time. The glue starts to get old and fails... and then edges pop up. Oils and crud gets under said edges... and further destroys the bonds, and it lifts up further.. as well as start to warp the material itself.
Eventually, it causes the material to have sharp edges that protrude into a persons hands... so what do they do? Break off the said piece. But over time, the material will just continue to lift at that damage spot.. and more and more cracking and or torn off pieces will be the result.
In some cases... the result isnt just age that causes the Lifting & or damages... but because people often have metal rings on, which dig into the material. They get angered, and smash down hard into it as well. Then of course, you have people whom intentionally damage the stuff, carving into it with a sharp knife or something like that.
The material itself, while flexible.. does tend to stiffen up and dry out. It gets more and more brittle. Its difficult to apply to curved surfaces... and it tends to pop up or crack at curved surfaces the most.
Also note that material expansion and contraction may cause some of this damage too. Depending on location, regulated temperatures, and In-Game temperatures... the often Metal control panels can expand and contract... which would cause the adhesive to weaken.. and or to stress the material as well. Even Wood panels can expand and contract, based on Humidity as well as temperature shifts.
3) Ease of Maintenance
A) Cleaning a perfectly smooth surface is a breeze.
B) Any Graphitti, such as by permanent markers, tend not to stick well to Plexi.
C) Plexi (unlike Lexan), is very tough to scratch. Even when it does get scratches.. you can sand & buff them out if you desire.
D) Most spills tend to roll right off the stuff, and wipe clean with one swoop of a rag. No abrasives or hard time scrubbing into ridges.
However, If the CP isnt well bolted, and or depending on where the drink was spilled... it could mean you have to take the Plexi off. Controllers will always have to be cleaned.. but they are robust enough to do "quick fixes", such as pouring some rubbing alcohol / solvent thru them, to take care of the sticky mess.
E) Fixability. If a sticker based covering gets damaged... its very difficult to repair it, and most repairs will not hold for long.
F) Vandalism. Plexi is difficult to scratch & carve into in short periods of time, with typical on hand instruments.
4) Longevity
Plexi done right... can last a cabinets entire lifespan. A sticker based covering almost always has damages, wear, cracks, imperfections, peeling, etc.
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This machine will be for home use, no?
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Yeah home use, with occasional use by kids.
Metal cp option is interesting, but I think someone mentioned the front plate restrictor kit needs a wood cp?
I'll certainly keep the metal one and maybe construct an alternate cp. Normal undermouted restrictor plates would be easy to swap out since the metal cp is on hinges. The current city I live in and my hometown are industrial so it shouldn't be too hard to find a metal workshop.
The buttons and joystick are intended for up to 3/4" wood ... If I want to use the 3/4" mdf and plexi I might need to recess the button areas? I wonder if it might be easier to get 1/2" MDF instead. I couldn't get 5/8" except for huge slabs. Not intending to try to for any 3/4" tmoulding so the total thickness isn't too important.
On that note, I wonder what would like best where the top and front side of the wood would meet? Perhaps using a round router bit to round out the piece?
Matt
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It's been a while since I've posted here, but I've still been lurking for quite some time )
Since the cab was in my unheated (but insulated) garage over this past winter, I didn't work on the CP until the spring.
Tentatively completed back in June.
I really enjoyed the woodworking (used a router and drill with spade bit) and wiring (those quick disconnects came in handy!)
Decided to stick with the NES coloring (light grey trim, dark charcoal background) instead of artwork for the CP since most of the real estate is taken up by the buttons/joystick.
Functionally complete, but needs some finalized woodworking and artwork.
I did particularly like my wife's recommendation to put a beer fridge next to the arcade. Source of beer and acts as table to put your beer on!
(http://i62.tinypic.com/2vaxit4.jpg)
Things remaining:
(1) Fill in the open space below the control panel
- Original metal CP had a ~4" overhang that covered this area.
- Probably I can fill it in with grey painted wood, but then there'd be a division between the side of the CP and this front facing piece... not sure if there's a better approach?
Stage 2 of the project will be the artwork:
(1) Printed Laminate Overlay for Control Panel
Right now it's just painted wood, no plexi on top.. this option would at least be more durable I believe, and look nicer (smooth finish).
I might also consider recessing the joystick more and having the top restrictor plate rest underneath the wood
- In retrospect, this is probably how it is commonly done.. but the black plastic went with the NES styling I was going for.
(2) Custom artwork for the sides and marquee (i.e. and get it printed at gameongraphix.com)
Since I play Arcade & Console games on this cab, my inspiration so far is one of Uncle Monkey's cabs
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,90890.msg953719.html#msg953719 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,90890.msg953719.html#msg953719)
But I haven't had the time/motivation to design something like that myself :)
Some of my thoughts/commments so far:
- The U360 joysticks work really well for for all types of games (at least for my not-so-discerning tastes)
- Using UltraMap4Mame to configure U360 automatically, works great
- I found that pulling off fighting moves in SF, MK, or even new fighters like Injustice was much easier and more consistent by using 8 way config with a larger deadzone.
- I put a 2 seater bench in front of the cab too, works well for me and my wife playing it (we enjoy beat-em ups like TMNT and Simpsons, she really kicks ---my bottom--- at puzzle games like Dr Mario though :)
Thanks all the past and future advice!
-Matt
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I thought you bottom mounted with those restrictors? Maybe I'm wrong. Should only be 1.25" hole for the restrictor to come thru.
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It does seems these top mounted restrictor plates should be bottom mounted, that way the square plastic top doesn't show (only a partial amount of the actual restrictor, depending on how much you recess).
Though I do recall when I initially decided the way to go about it this way, I couldn't find any examples of cabs with it (plenty with U360 of course :))
I'll try the bottom mount approach when I re-do the CP for the laminate cover. Suppose that would give me more real estate for any artwork incase I decide not to go with the plain black/grey trim.
I'm also considering switching the yellow coin and player start buttons (that way the black buttons line up).
-Matt
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I looked and they also had acrylic sheets on smaller more appropriate sizes near the plexi. Its clear and seems just as durable as the plexi..Would it be suitable? Could cut it without needing a skill saw.
If it eases your mind on this, acrylic and plexi are absolutely the same thing Plexiglas is just a trade name. Polycarbonate (lexan) is more impact resistant but will scratch much easier.