Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: UFO on July 25, 2013, 06:18:58 pm
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Hi all,
What are everyone's thoughts on stripping the PC for my cab, or leaving it in the case.
When I started building PC's many years ago, I was taught that the airflow through a PC was designed so efficiently and directionally that if you actually took the hardware out it would overheat causing performance problems.
Now I know that is probably an extreme example, or a point over emphasised, but I am struggling to come up with a good solution.
a) a PC inside a case & strapped inside my cab would not get any 'fresh' airflow thereby potentially causing overheating problems.
b) a PC stripped would have no directional airflow other than a couple of fans / outlets in the cab, also causing potential overheating.
Thoughts?
Thanks chaps...
EssJay
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6 of one half dozen of the other !! :dizzy:
Figure either solution should be fine as long as there is some airflow inside the cab and decent heatsinks on the various parts of the PC (ie. GPU - CPU - possibly RAM chips) - possibly a couple fans or air vents in the bottom portion of the case to allow air in and a couple toward the top to vent hot air out. Figure nowadays most GPUs and CPUs have large enough heatsinks and fans on them to keep them cool enough for either situation unlike old times when the case usually had a single small fan if that other than the one on the PSU and the heatsinks were minimal, and they are made with enough headroom that a few extra degrees in temp isn't going to cause shut down.
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I went in-case with liquid cooling.
Jason
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I left my PC in the case but without a cover. Also put a fan near the top of the cabinet. Have never had an issue.
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I used one of these
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811353001 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811353001)
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When I started building PC's many years ago, I was taught that the airflow through a PC was designed so efficiently and directionally that if you actually took the hardware out it would overheat causing performance problems.
I remember hearing the same thing, but in my experience I think it's just an urban legend.
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I used one of these
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811353001 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811353001)
I'm liking that...
If I were to strip the case, I would be taking out the case board too and attaching everything to it, then attaching that to the cab case - along with a good gap between the two for airflow.
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When I started building PC's many years ago, I was taught that the airflow through a PC was designed so efficiently and directionally that if you actually took the hardware out it would overheat causing performance problems.
I remember hearing the same thing, but in my experience I think it's just an urban legend.
Not sure its an urban legend - I know it to be true but I wonder what the best way to keep cool would be (other than using liquids!).
Access would be a pain if the hardware were inside a case...
Here is some more stuff on airflow: http://www.iceteks.com/articles.php/casecooling/1
I guess if no one here has had any issues, then I will just strip everything from the case...
Cheers guys...
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I have 3 different cabs that have computers in them, all 3 are overclocked and deceased. I made sure to do my heat testing in the most extreme of circumstances such as leaving them benchmarking under full load for 48 hrs with crt monitors running and never had a problem.
1 is in a driving cabinet that has 1 fan at the back of the cabinet pulling air out. There are vent holes at the front to pull cool air in. I added the fan here because of how little room there is in the bottom of the cabinet. Not sure if it's needed but it was piece of mind because I have a home theatre amp in there as well. 1 is a mortal Kombat 2 cab with no fans. 1 is a new astro city with no fans.
Sent from my Nexus 4
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Cabinet size is also a consideration. My cab is full size so there is a lot of ambient loss within the cabinet itself. I should have added that I have a 29" arcade monitor stuffed in there as well and have left it running for days at a time without any issue. I think the fan I used on the top of the cabinet was a 120mm.
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I like to get rid of the PC case...mainly as there is a lot of wasted space otherwise (who needs all the drive bays etc). It also makes the inside of your cabinet look more like a 'real' arcade machine, if you care about things like that.
I've never had a problem with my main cabinet, which doesn't have any intake vents. I am a bit more concerned about my recent build (which also has no intake vents), as the PC design means no CPU fan as such, just an exhaust fan which draws air over the CPU heatsink. But that would still be an issue whether in the PC case or not.
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Ive done both, but Im leaning towards leaving it in the case just because its easier for me. I can unhook the PC, pull it out of the cab then work on it. And it makes swapping out rigs even easier.
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Ive done both, but Im leaning towards leaving it in the case just because its easier for me. I can unhook the PC, pull it out of the cab then work on it. And it makes swapping out rigs even easier.
That's a good point. I should note that my pcs are mounted on wooden boards that can be removed if needed. I wouldn't fix the components directly to the cabinet itself.
Sent from my Nexus 4
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Ive done both, but Im leaning towards leaving it in the case just because its easier for me. I can unhook the PC, pull it out of the cab then work on it. And it makes swapping out rigs even easier.
Exactly why I did it that way. I also stripped out everything that was not necessary. Have a couple of USB ports on the outside of the cabinet should I need to do a file update or use a keyboard.
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I left mine in the chassis for my last build but didn't include the sides. I did this because I wanted to be able to view the innards of the build and having them attached to the chassis made it easier to position everything. It also makes the PC easier to test before installing into the cab. You should really be using a relatively low power CPU anyway - there's no requirement for high power CPU's in a cab.
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I decase and board mount my pc. Hot glue is all you need to secure the power supply. A couple of wood screws secure the mobo.
Todays Mobos have sound, video, and network integrated so there is no worry about cards to secure. Once the OS is installed I also remove the optical drive.
Any tweaks are then done over the network or with a usb chip.
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Not sure its an urban legend - I know it to be true but I wonder what the best way to keep cool would be (other than using liquids!).
All I can say is that I have never seen a situation where a cased PC has outperformed a partially or fully decased PC in terms of cooling. I can see it being an issue if one puts a decased PC into another type of enclosure without proper ventillation or airflow. But decasing by itself shouldn't cause issues.
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When looking for authenticity one should realize that pretty much every arcade game that ever ran on PC hardware left the computer in the case.
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I would see 3 considerations for making this decision, heat, dust, and grounding.
Cases can improve airflow, but that is not a given fact, poorly designed cases from ultra cheap big box store PC's can actually make it worse. A high end case can net you a difference of ~5C in my experience between running it open and closing it up. In an enclosed area of a cabinet that performance may be lost. As long as you have good airflow through the case, you should be fine. If you are concerned there are programs you can run to report heat levels from a number of components on your system. Generally speaking below 70C is good, 70-80C is pushing it, anything beyond that risks failure.
On the subject of dust, the most immediate risk of dust in my experience is from clogging vents of power supplies and jamming the fans. I can't speak to how quickly dust accumulates in a cabinet, but I would monitor the amount of dust.
Grounding only really applies if you go without a case, one or more of the screw mounting points on the case will often have a silver ring around it that is the ground. Normally that connects to the motherboard mounting panel in the case, which grounds itself to the power supply. If you are mounting it to the cabinet directly, make sure you maintain the ground in some fashion
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Thanks guys - all very valid points to consider.
For my own interest, I will install some software to monitor temps while it is currently out of the cab and see what difference there is when it is stripped and installed in the cab.
I hope to be able to report the findings!
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Out of the many, many PC based cabinets I have built only one ever suffered a heat death and it was a decased one.
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Out of the many, many PC based cabinets I have built only one ever suffered a heat death and it was a decased one.
Out of interest, was the PC in a case, or decased?
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Out of the many, many PC based cabinets I have built only one ever suffered a heat death and it was a decased one.
Out of interest, was the PC in a case, or decased?
Decased PC, Pentium 3 based, with a voodoo 3 graphics card in a Space Firebird mini cabinet. It did not die on me, it died about a year or two after I sold it at superauctions. Saw it on ebay with a brand new PC in it and asked them what happened.
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I always decase because it looks better and seems more authentic. Having said that, I'm building a cab for my wife's friend and I'm keeping it cased for simplicity's sake.
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My current builds / redos have all been left in the case. Now when I built my first cab in 2003 (which I will make a project thread for so we can all have a good laugh at my expense) I used parts that I had acquired but had no case for. The computer ended up dying in 2008 and I can't figure it out. But I can't tell you how many times I bumped the cpu fan and vid card or dropped a tool while I was still tinkering with the cab. If the pc is cased and should something ever go wrong all that is required is unplugging a few cables and bring the unit to the bench.
good day.
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Kind of on subject but,what about fans?
I'm thinking maybe one on top blowing in and one in the back of the cab blowing out? What would be suggested?
Sent from my Atari 2600
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Kind of on subject but,what about fans?
I'm thinking maybe one on top blowing in and one in the back of the cab blowing out? What would be suggested?
Sent from my Atari 2600
Remember that heat rises.
Work with the thermodynamics instead of against it.
Top fan blowing out -- lower fan blowing in.
Scott
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Top fan blowing out -- lower fan blowing in.
+1
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Gotcha,THANX!
Sent from my Atari 2600
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Cabinet size is also a consideration. My cab is full size so there is a lot of ambient loss within the cabinet itself. I should have added that I have a 29" arcade monitor stuffed in there as well and have left it running for days at a time without any issue. I think the fan I used on the top of the cabinet was a 120mm.
Hmm... here ia my problem!
Can't actually fit the coin mech in, so decased it is!
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That does look kind of tight in there and the power supply fan is right up against the side. Definitely agree on removing everything from the case.
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sweet :cheers:
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Cabinet size is also a consideration.
+1
IMO cabinet size is the only consideration. I have an upright with a cased PC and a cocktail with a decased (because nothing else would fit), both of which have been operating fine for years. If space is tight, make sure to install a large quiet fan somewhere near the top.
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this is what i set so far 12v fan will b on top of cpu
(http://i.imgur.com/A7W2mTJ.jpg)
love the fan (green circle) can change speed L.M.H
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Is that a direct tv box in there?
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Is that a direct tv box in there?
nope is a DCCK Directv Cinema Connection Kit normaly used to connect HDDVR to internet (wifi) in this case is connectin my cpu to the internet ;D
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If space is not an issue, what would you guys recommend? In case, not in case, or in a hacked up/ cannibalized case as someone else mentioned? I guess if space is not an issue, the best option may be to do it out of the case, and go overkill with the fans to guarantee no overheating?
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I think with case is best ( remove side covers)
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This is what I ended up with...
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Just my 2 cents, unless someone can say they had problems with one or the other i guess it doesnt matter but a case does protect the PC. Mine is without and wondered why it kept cutting out, until i found a large wood chip had somehow got stuck in the fan!! :lol
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Moving components out of the case can help saving space
You can store everything in the top part of the cab, like in a barcade and keep the bottom for storage -> I was afraid it may put the cab out of balance but it is not the case
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There is no real point in putting your computer inside a cab still mounted in a case. Yes it is easier because everything is mounted but you begin to run into heat issues. And I am finding these (http://www.jammaboards.com/store/images/detailed/1/JammaBoards_PCB_Arcade_Board_Mounting_Feet.jpg) to be very useful in my cab.
Also. Caparo how did you hack the DCCK to get you wireless? I used to work for DTV and never heard of anyone reverse engineering the DCCK.
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There is no real point in putting your computer inside a cab still mounted in a case. Yes it is easier because everything is mounted but you begin to run into heat issues.
Do you have any reference for this? Several people here have just stated the opposite based on experience. I don't see how you would have any additional heat issues, in fact you probably get better and more consistent airflow over your components with a case on due to the fan configuration.
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There is no real point in putting your computer inside a cab still mounted in a case. Yes it is easier because everything is mounted but you begin to run into heat issues. And I am finding these (http://www.jammaboards.com/store/images/detailed/1/JammaBoards_PCB_Arcade_Board_Mounting_Feet.jpg) to be very useful in my cab.
Also. Caparo how did you hack the DCCK to get you wireless? I used to work for DTV and never heard of anyone reverse engineering the DCCK.
new DCCK cones with WPS ( WiFi protected setup) all you have to do is press WPS in your router then on the DCCK and your done .. ( btw ima DTV TECH). Oohhh PRO.
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There is no real point in putting your computer inside a cab still mounted in a case. Yes it is easier because everything is mounted but you begin to run into heat issues. And I am finding these (http://www.jammaboards.com/store/images/detailed/1/JammaBoards_PCB_Arcade_Board_Mounting_Feet.jpg) to be very useful in my cab.
Also. Caparo how did you hack the DCCK to get you wireless? I used to work for DTV and never heard of anyone reverse engineering the DCCK.
new DCCK cones with WPS ( WiFi protected setup) all you have to do is press WPS in your router then on the DCCK and your done
So the PC just recognizes it as a WAP? Interesting. It makes perfect sense.
Aholfe. I'm not saying I'm dead set against putting a computer in a cab is wrong I just think it, to me, is redundant. It probably is the easy way to go. I guess I just like the original look it gives when mounting straight to the cab. And yes I agree air flow is fine but if you are blowing hot air out from the computer case directly into the confines of the cab then you would be pulling hot air in defeating the cooling process.
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So the PC just recognizes it as a WAP? Interesting. It makes perfect sense.
Aholfe. I'm not saying I'm dead set against putting a computer in a cab is wrong I just think it, to me, is redundant. It probably is the easy way to go. I guess I just like the original look it gives when mounting straight to the cab. And yes I agree air flow is fine but if you are blowing hot air out from the computer case directly into the confines of the cab then you would be pulling hot air in defeating the cooling process.
instead of a giant direct TV box, I think I'd rather have a tiny USB wireless device to connect to a router, but that's off topic.
With the PC in a cab, if it is blowing hot air into the cab, that hot air is going to rise to the top of the cab and wouldn't really affect the PC unless the PC is up in the marquee area (not likely) or if the cabinet was completely sealed (also not likely)
As for "original look" most arcade games that are PC based keep the PC in the case.
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Plus being a PC guy it seems odd to open a case then open another one just to trouble shoot.
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So the PC just recognizes it as a WAP? Interesting. It makes perfect sense.
Aholfe. I'm not saying I'm dead set against putting a computer in a cab is wrong I just think it, to me, is redundant. It probably is the easy way to go. I guess I just like the original look it gives when mounting straight to the cab. And yes I agree air flow is fine but if you are blowing hot air out from the computer case directly into the confines of the cab then you would be pulling hot air in defeating the cooling process.
instead of a giant direct TV box, I think I'd rather have a tiny USB wireless device to connect to a router, but that's off topic.
With the PC in a cab, if it is blowing hot air into the cab, that hot air is going to rise to the top of the cab and wouldn't really affect the PC unless the PC is up in the marquee area (not likely) or if the cabinet was completely sealed (also not likely)
As for "original look" most arcade games that are PC based keep the PC in the case.
Thats good idea but not for me cus i have the space free DTV'S CCK and I LIKE IT THAT WAY...! tanks for the advice ne ways.. ::)
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I've never dealt with running PC hardware outside of a case but looking at it from a logical standpoint.. I would think you'd need more fans or heatsinks in a bigger opening in order to get the same amount of cooling of a smaller case. I agree with others that say if you have the space, keep it in the case. If you don't make sure their is plenty of cooling and vacuum out the dust often.
Even if you keep your PC components cased you should install a fan or two near your PC that pushes the hot air out of the cabinet, that builds up outside of the PC case. It gets hot in there after an hour+ of play.
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If you run the PC naked, I'd have a case fan pulling cool air into the cabinet at a MINIMUM. The case provides cooling to all the components, and last I checked the PCB's in arcades don't generate as much heat as a GPU and a CPU. I have one in the bottom back and one in the top JIC.
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Thats good idea but not for me cus i have the space free DTV'S CCK and I LIKE IT THAT WAY...! tanks for the advice ne ways.. ::)
I like YOUR USE OF CAPITALS for no reason, its NOT WEIRD AT ALL. Honestly though, I appreciate the irony of a thread concerning heat, space in a cab, and cooling methods and in your picture you have 2 heat generating power supplies (arcade and PC) and a CCK that takes up a bunch of room and probably generates heat or uses an AC adapter that generates heat.
I mean hey, you get em for free and that works, but not every comment made on here is an attack, sometimes its just an observation. Even if I got those boxes for free, I'd still prefer a $20 USB wireless stick, less room, and less wiring. That's just me. There's nothing wrong with what you're doing , I am just presenting an alternative for you and others. I could also say that you could mount that on the back of the cab and run the wiring in to free up air space and increase cooling but I wouldnt want to offend you again ::)
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Thats good idea but not for me cus i have the space free DTV'S CCK and I LIKE IT THAT WAY...! tanks for the advice ne ways.. ::)
I like YOUR USE OF CAPITALS for no reason, its NOT WEIRD AT ALL. Honestly though, I appreciate the irony of a thread concerning heat, space in a cab, and cooling methods and in your picture you have 2 heat generating power supplies (arcade and PC) and a CCK that takes up a bunch of room and probably generates heat or uses an AC adapter that generates heat.
I mean hey, you get em for free and that works, but not every comment made on here is an attack, sometimes its just an :cheers: observation. Even if I got those boxes for free, I'd still prefer a $20 USB wireless stick, less room, and less wiring. That's just me. There's nothing wrong with what you're doing , I am just presenting an alternative for you and others. I could also say that you could mount that on the back of the cab and run the wiring in to free up air space and increase cooling but I wouldnt want to offend you again ::)
lol its ok you just give me a good idea and you right de dcck gets hot plus is big I'm moving the Cck on the top part of the cabinet behind the LCD . Thanks we still friend I'm just new in all this and I have to learn how to manage comments cuz thanks to you guys I'm going toward on my project :cheers:
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Thats good idea but not for me cus i have the space free DTV'S CCK and I LIKE IT THAT WAY...! tanks for the advice ne ways.. ::)
I like YOUR USE OF CAPITALS for no reason, its NOT WEIRD AT ALL. Honestly though, I appreciate the irony of a thread concerning heat, space in a cab, and cooling methods and in your picture you have 2 heat generating power supplies (arcade and PC) and a CCK that takes up a bunch of room and probably generates heat or uses an AC adapter that generates heat.
I mean hey, you get em for free and that works, but not every comment made on here is an attack, sometimes its just an observation. Even if I got those boxes for free, I'd still prefer a $20 USB wireless stick, less room, and less wiring. That's just me. There's nothing wrong with what you're doing , I am just presenting an alternative for you and others. I could also say that you could mount that on the back of the cab and run the wiring in to free up air space and increase cooling but I wouldnt want to offend you again ::)
I moved cck on the back/top of my cabinet. This cabinet has two access that r divided.(http://i.imgur.com/h1xq8Fz.jpg)