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Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: Pavlovtiger on May 09, 2013, 01:54:53 pm

Title: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: Pavlovtiger on May 09, 2013, 01:54:53 pm

After drooling over this hobby for almost nine years now, I've finally taken the first steps and got myself some buttons and sticks, wiring, crimp/strip tool, I-Pac, just enough to actually start learning.  The .187 disconnects arrived in the post, but I'm a bit confused on actually applying them to the microswitch terminals.  The prongs don't seem to slip very far into the disconnects, and I'm not sure if it'll even make a connection when I crimp in the wire leads.  The QD affixes firmly enough to the switch prong so as not to simply fall off, mind you, it's 'on' and I still need to exert a little force to remove it, it's just that this is my first time working with these so I'm looking for tips and coaching.

Cheers. ~

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: brad808 on May 09, 2013, 02:13:13 pm

Best thing you can do is buy a soldering iron and throw all those disconnects in the garbage :-P (I'm only half kidding).

I'm sure they are fine if you have to give a solid pull to get them off. As long as metal is on metal you are good. If you have a multimeter you can easily check the line to make sure they are connected using the ohm setting. If the meter reads zero (no resistance) then there are no breaks in the connection. If it reads 1 then there is something breaking the signal and probably not connected right.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: michelevit on May 09, 2013, 02:37:45 pm

i recommend just soldering wire directly to the button switches.
Save money, time and frustration and do away with quick disconnects!

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: Unstupid on May 09, 2013, 03:27:19 pm

Quote from: michelevit on May 09, 2013, 02:37:45 pm

Save money, time and frustration

Until you have to change out a switch!  :D

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: PL1 on May 09, 2013, 03:33:15 pm

Welcome aboard, Pavlovtiger.

The best tip for working with QDs is to use a ratcheting crimper (http://www.harborfreight.com/ratcheting-crimping-tool-97420.html).

The reason that the QD only goes on part-way is that you can use .187" or .25" QDs with the step-side type contacts.

(http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/1597-large/lever-arm-zippy-microswitch.jpg)

Quote from: Pavlovtiger on May 09, 2013, 01:54:53 pm

The QD affixes firmly enough to the switch prong so as not to simply fall off, mind you, it's 'on' and I still need to exert a little force to remove it

Sounds like it's working as advertised, as long as the .187" QD goes on until it reaches the "shoulder" -- a .25" QD will fit over the shoulder.


Scott

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: michelevit on May 09, 2013, 03:42:15 pm

I've only had to change out one switch and it was on a button I salvaged from a used arcade
cabinet. Soldering takes little time. I use a Weller pistol style iron and it heats up instantly.

Soldering makes a much more solid connection than any mechanical connection ever could.

Quote from: Unstupid on May 09, 2013, 03:27:19 pm

Quote from: michelevit on May 09, 2013, 02:37:45 pm

Save money, time and frustration

Until you have to change out a switch!  :D

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: Drnick on May 09, 2013, 03:56:39 pm

Solder the wires to the quick disconnects?  :dunno :dunno :dunno Then you have a solid easy to remove connection  :laugh2:

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: Vigo on May 09, 2013, 03:58:56 pm

Quote from: PL1 on May 09, 2013, 03:33:15 pm

The reason that the QD only goes on part-way is that you can use .187" or .25" QDs with the step-side type contacts.

(http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/1597-large/lever-arm-zippy-microswitch.jpg)

That could be true, but not all micros have that style contact. They could just simply be tight QDs. Either way though, it's perfectly fine that they don't go all the way on.

Quote from: michelevit on May 09, 2013, 03:42:15 pm

I've only had to change out one switch and it was on a button I salvaged from a used arcade
cabinet. Soldering takes little time. I use a Weller pistol style iron and it heats up instantly.

Soldering makes a much more solid connection than any mechanical connection ever could.

I always thought the whole Soldering vs QD debate is a total preference thing. A more solid of a connection isn't important with a button as long as the connection is made.

I do both, but in general I use QDs because I do sometimes change out buttons & micros with new stuff and also repurpose the old stuff. It does become a hassle sucking the solder off to reuse a micro.

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: Vigo on May 09, 2013, 04:01:22 pm

Quote from: Drnick on May 09, 2013, 03:56:39 pm

Solder the wires to the quick disconnects?  :dunno :dunno :dunno Then you have a solid easy to remove connection  :laugh2:

(http://www.brainygamer.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/09/16/brilliant.jpg)

Brilliant!

Title: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: mgb on May 09, 2013, 04:31:52 pm

Welcome to a wonderful hobby

I definitely disagree with the advice of soldering the wire right to the switch because sooner or later you will need to replace a switch and I guarantee this will be when you are going to play a game with friends.
The QDs will be best.
I'm wondering what exactly you meant when you said:
"I'm not sure if it'll even make a connection when I crimp in the wire leads."

The QDs get crimped on the wire before attaching to the switch.

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: sandheaver on May 09, 2013, 04:34:38 pm

if the quick disconnect is hard to slide on, the metal-to-metal connection is good.  you'll have some that are hard to slide on, but once they're on they're just as good of an electrical connection as any solder joint, so as previously stated it is a matter of preference.

i have a microswitch that broke which i slide every single quick disconnect connector i use onto.  you could find a .187 male connector, or designate a sacrificial microswitch, and do the same.  this makes it easier for quick disconnect to slide onto their final microswitch later.

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: Pavlovtiger on May 09, 2013, 06:19:02 pm

I appreciate all the responses and tips, particularly that of crimping the wires into the disconnects before pushing over the microswitch prongs.  As for preferences of QD versus solder, I've read for years that it's the ease of use that is sought after in favour of the QD option, and being able to easily remove them is a plus.  I do want to learn to solder too, especially if I do LED button wiring (and if I don't go the RGB method, though that's interesting too, but probably for another thread.)

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: wp34 on May 09, 2013, 07:30:11 pm

I solder AND I use Monster Cable. :)

+1 for the Quick Disconnects.  I replaced all the buttons on a 4-player NBA Jam that had been soldered once. That was a pain in the buns.

Sent from my Atari 800 mobile device using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: PL1 on May 09, 2013, 07:44:19 pm

One other consideration in the solder vs. QD argument is the type of wire you are using.

If you use QDs, make sure you are using stranded wire.

For solid core wire, use solder.


Scott

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: brad808 on May 09, 2013, 08:01:12 pm

Quote from: wp34 on May 09, 2013, 07:30:11 pm

I solder AND I use Monster Cable. :)

lol I solder and I use mogami cable for all my connections (no joke)..............my buttons sound amazing (joke). I just use it because I have bins full of it for recording studio wiring and even though it's pricey cable I figure since I already have it it's basically free and it's actually cheaper to use than going out and buying new connect wire. Also since a lot of it is multi-cable "snakes" than all the cables inside are individually numbered all the way throughout every inch or so. Makes it handy to trace your wiring later on should the need come up.

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: Pavlovtiger on May 09, 2013, 09:23:56 pm

I'm starting to think I may have picked up the wrong wire for the disconnects.  It looks much closer to the solid-core in the helpful reference photo, thank you for that.  I tried a test wiring with just one button, wiring to the ground, obviously, and to the 1SW1 terminals on my Ipac.  I got no response in MAME on either attempt, so it's possible I wired to the incorrect terminal, but I'm more convinced these wires just aren't making contact with the microswitch prongs for some reason.

I tried stripping about 3/4 inch of wire to slip into the disconnects, but still no luck.  Ipac powers on when plugged in, so that's just fine, but I don't seem to have beginner's luck with this.  Is there a particularly good video tutorial for this operation, perhaps?

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: Nephasth on May 09, 2013, 09:34:42 pm

Hmm. Did you connect your wires to BOTH the NC and NO terminals of the switch? If so, those terminals will never make contact with each other. Your wires should be connected to the COM (ground wire) terminal and NO (signal wire, in this case 1SW1 on your IPAC) terminal. If you have your switch wired appropriately, open up note pad or WinIPAC (http://ultimarc.com/download.html) and see if the IPAC is responding in there.

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: PL1 on May 09, 2013, 10:52:56 pm

Quote from: Pavlovtiger on May 09, 2013, 09:23:56 pm

I'm starting to think I may have picked up the wrong wire for the disconnects.  It looks much closer to the solid-core in the helpful reference photo

Solid-core wire won't work well with crimps unless you bend it around in a tight overlapping loop like a paperclip and crunch the loop down a bit with pliers so it will fit into the crimp -- not easy, but it will work in a pinch.

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=132248.0;attach=289124;image)

I used the slotted end (shown in pic) of the Pry Fork and Wire Bending Tool here (http://www.harborfreight.com/pry-fork-and-wire-bending-tool-99744.html).

When you use stranded wire, you can get pretty impressive results -- 83 lbs with the inexpensive Harbor Freight crimpers in this test.

Crimp Load Test #4 Harbor Freight Tools Double Crimper (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRGyAshPEho#ws)

If you're not sure if the switches are wired right, this diagram should help. (Hat tip - RandyT / GroovyGameGear)

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=129990.0;attach=276499;image)


Scott

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: shponglefan on May 09, 2013, 11:27:20 pm

To help slide quick disconnects on, I find rocking them back and forth slightly helps move them into place.

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: Pavlovtiger on May 10, 2013, 01:51:02 am

Yes, I'm only wiring the active lead to the NO terminal, as NC would have the opposite effect from what we're going for.  I wasn't aware of WinIpac and will give it a go in the morning.  I'll also experiment with looping the ends of my wires, because I'm almost certain I'm just not creating a connection.  Ah well, better I learn now, so this isn't a big stumbling block when it comes time to wire a panel for real.

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: Pavlovtiger on May 10, 2013, 04:48:52 am

Well, I tested just hooking the ground and active wire ends directly through the switch prongs, and at least I know my problem is lack of connection when going through the disconnects, as the button works just fine.  I think I'm going to go ahead and order myself some braided-core wiring and drop this solid-core stuff as it's just not very friendly to work with for this.

Title: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: mgb on May 10, 2013, 08:20:12 am

Yeah, you'll get the hang of it.
Practicing is a good idea.
Also if you question the wire you got or your wiring itself, remember to post pictures here as that can help to better id your issues.

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: Pavlovtiger on May 10, 2013, 12:58:08 pm

That's a good idea, I'll see if I can borrow the roomie's camera and take a few snaps of what I'm working with.  Just as an aside, what 3D modeling software did you use to create the mockup pics for Vertical Retrace?  Those look brilliant, I'd love to play about with it and see if I can envision how I want mine.

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: sandheaver on May 10, 2013, 01:15:44 pm

I find that solid core wire does not work well with quick disconnects.  It is more difficult to crush copper (wire material) than aluminum (connector material) so a solid core wire just kind of stays put while you try to warp the connector to fit tightly; the strands in a stranded copper wire move around when you crimp and get pinned against each other as well as the connector resulting in a much, much better connection.

It wasn't the connector's fault, it was my own for buying solid core copper wire.

Title: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: mgb on May 10, 2013, 09:36:37 pm

Yeah crimp connectors are not made for solid core wires.
  If you use solid core wire, than soldering is the best choice. But with solid core wire you wanna make sure the wire isn't moving a lot because thin solid wire will break if its flexed a lot.
  I work on a lot of arcade machines and I've repaired a lot of solid wires broken away from switches.

I personally prefer 22 gauge (20 gauge is what arcade used to typically use but its not as common now a days and 22 is fine) stranded wire and QD crimps.

I personally have done enough seeding and crimping that I just take the easy way now and I buy economy jamma harnesses for $10. For a mame machine, I just cut off the 56 pin connector end and use the cabling. The QDs are already on and they're insulated. Works like a champ.
But it's always best to first learn how to do it the harder way.

Pav,
  For the 3d renderings I, like a bunch of others here, used google sketch up. It's a great program.
Now it's called Trimble sketch up.

For my cp and marquee artwork I used Corel Paint Shop Pro X.  The greatest $50 I ever spent on software.

Title: Re: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: yotsuya on May 11, 2013, 01:31:13 am

Quote from: mgb on May 10, 2013, 09:36:37 pm

I personally have done enough seeding and crimping that I just take the easy way now and I buy economy jamma harnesses for $10. For a mame machine, I just cut off the 56 pin connector end and use the cabling. The QDs are already on and they're insulated. Works like a champ.

That is ---smurfing--- genius, my friend.

Title: Re: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: CoryBee on May 11, 2013, 03:23:50 am

Quote from: yotsuya on May 11, 2013, 01:31:13 am

Quote from: mgb on May 10, 2013, 09:36:37 pm

I personally have done enough seeding and crimping that I just take the easy way now and I buy economy jamma harnesses for $10. For a mame machine, I just cut off the 56 pin connector end and use the cabling. The QDs are already on and they're insulated. Works like a champ.

That is ---smurfing--- genius, my friend.

This ^^^

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: PL1 on May 11, 2013, 05:21:41 am

Another option to consider is the 16 Wire Rainbow Pack with insulated .187" crimps from Paradise (http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/en/jamma-harnesses/402-16-wire-rainbow-packtm-with-187-quick-connector-0855742004027.html) for $7.50.

(http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/1255-large/16-wire-rainbow-packtm-with-187-quick-connector.jpg)

.110" and .25" sets, individual color wires w. crimps, and daisy chains are available, too.

Bryan has a great wiring selection.


Scott

Title: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: mgb on May 11, 2013, 04:36:21 pm

Oops. I just noticed my post says seeding where it should say soldering.

Title: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: mgb on May 11, 2013, 04:37:32 pm

Quote from: PL1 on May 11, 2013, 05:21:41 am

Another option to consider is the 16 Wire Rainbow Pack with insulated .187" crimps from Paradise (http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/en/jamma-harnesses/402-16-wire-rainbow-packtm-with-187-quick-connector-0855742004027.html) for $7.50.

(http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/1255-large/16-wire-rainbow-packtm-with-187-quick-connector.jpg)

.110" and .25" sets, individual color wires w. crimps, and daisy chains are available, too.

Bryan has a great wiring selection.


Scott

That is a nice option.
Good to know.

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: ahofle on May 14, 2013, 12:04:47 am

Quote from: PL1 on May 09, 2013, 10:52:56 pm

Crimp Load Test #4 Harbor Freight Tools Double Crimper (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRGyAshPEho#ws)

Do you know where you can get a ratcheting crimper like the blue one in the top right corner of that video still?  I used one a while back from a friend but he doesn't remember where he got it.  Best crimper I've ever used.

Title: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: mgb on May 14, 2013, 08:23:17 am

Like this?
http://www.harborfreight.com/ratcheting-crimping-tool-97420.html

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: kahlid74 on May 14, 2013, 09:52:40 am

I've also found that if a QD is too light, use a small flat head screwdriver to loosen it.  If it's too loose, use a small pliers to tighten in.

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: PL1 on May 14, 2013, 01:01:43 pm

Quote from: ahofle on May 14, 2013, 12:04:47 am

Do you know where you can get a ratcheting crimper like the blue one in the top right corner of that video still?  I used one a while back from a friend but he doesn't remember where he got it.  Best crimper I've ever used.

Not certain, but they are probably going to be very expensive compared to the alternatives below.

Nephasth recommended http://www.pimfg.com/ (http://www.pimfg.com/) as a great source for affordable ratcheting crimpers and I second that.

The jaws on page 74 of the catalog (http://www.pimfg.com/catalog2011.html#/74/zoomed) PDF work with the HT-336 frame or the Harbor Freight crimpers that MGB and I linked above.

The Harbor Freight crimpers are slightly lower quality than the HT-336 -- check the HF crimpers before you buy them to ensure they are working properly. (The first pair I checked weren't functioning/adjusted properly.)

These P/Ns are the ones I ended up getting.
HF Ratcheting Crimp Pliers (http://www.harborfreight.com/ratcheting-crimping-tool-97420.html) for QDs
HT-336-FM (http://www.pimfg.com/Product-Detail/HT-336-FM) Crimp Tool Frame (for D-subs)
HT-236-2C4-DIE (http://www.pimfg.com/Product-Detail/HT-236-2C4-DIE) (236 dies work in the 336 frame, check out the "data sheet" tab for detailed view)
HT-236-2U-DIE (http://www.pimfg.com/Product-Detail/HT-236-2U-DIE)
HT-225D (http://www.pimfg.com/Product-Detail/HT-225D) Crimp tool (for D-subs)


Scott

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: Unstupid on May 14, 2013, 05:25:19 pm

You talking about the ones that look like the Klein T1715?

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: Nephasth on May 14, 2013, 05:38:38 pm

Quote from: PL1 on May 14, 2013, 01:01:43 pm

Nephasth recommended http://www.pimfg.com/ (http://www.pimfg.com/) as a great source for affordable ratcheting crimpers and I second that.

Holy crap. Prices have gone up considerably since I was last there.

Title: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: mgb on May 14, 2013, 09:38:27 pm

I've crimped a lot of wires for both my job and personal use and I've just never found a need for ratcheting crimpers other than the ones I use for the BNC connectors on coax

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: kahlid74 on May 15, 2013, 09:28:01 am

I like the ratcheting tools but I've found for me, a good pair of Needle nose pliers to semi close and then an adjustable pliers to bite down hard gives the best grip.

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: eds1275 on May 15, 2013, 09:37:05 am

I have always just used some regular pliers and squished it down. Not proper, I know... but it works.

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: mgb on May 15, 2013, 10:21:44 pm

I just use the crimping die on my lineman pliers otherwise I have a separate Klein crimping tool that I use.

Title: Re: Quick Disconnects - Just started and I have questions.
Post by: ahofle on May 19, 2013, 10:58:51 pm

Quote from: Unstupid on May 14, 2013, 05:25:19 pm

You talking about the ones that look like the Klein T1715?

Yep that's it.  Holy crap those are indeed expensive:
https://www.google.com/shopping/product/17807009216021280271 (https://www.google.com/shopping/product/17807009216021280271)