The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Consoles => Topic started by: degenatrons on June 08, 2012, 07:19:28 pm
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I created a prototype controller interface for xbox based on a hacked smartjoy frag keyboard adaptor.
These smartjoys (also known as smartbox II) were designed to allow peeps to play FPS titles via a connected PS/2 keyboard and mouse. I mentioned this project in my other post for a DIY USB Keyboard Encoder (for MAME). The smartjoy is a neat little device and you can get hold of these very cheap.
I made a previous xbox prototype based on an AVR development board and a hacked smartjoy (I called it Minty Fresh Interface). If you want the background you can find this on my project site at https://sites.google.com/site/degenatrons/controller-interfaces/xbox-interface (https://sites.google.com/site/degenatrons/controller-interfaces/xbox-interface) Unfortunately, I had some issues with this so had to go back to the drawing board. :(
This time I had more success and the device is now tested and working with xbox. :)
So I had to come up with a way to get the inputs from arcade controls to connect to the PS/2 keyboard input ports on the smartjoy. I figured I could create my own PS/2 keyboard encoder circuit (a bit like a keyboard hack) to connect the arcade controls to the smartjoy.
I found a PS/2 integrated circuit at Farnell Electronics, it is Holtek model HT82K628A. It is a 40 Pin Dip IC. This is an old chip which was used in Windows 95/98/2000 keyboards. It is also very cheap. It accepts input from pins (via matrix) and communicates PS/2 to host. It does some other neat stuff too.
I built a breadboard circuit around this IC and tested with with a PC and it worked. The circuit includes the chip, a couple of capacitors (0.1uf and 10uf) and a resistor (58.3k) to control the clock speed. If you get the spec for the chip it includes a schematic for this circuit.
My breadboard circuit looks like this. Very simple.
(https://sites.google.com/site/degenatrons/_/rsrc/1339194897927/controller-interfaces/ps-2-keyboard-emulator/breadboard_ps2_circuit.jpg)
I connected the smartjoy to this test circuit and bridge a couple of pins. Woohoo! everything was looking good, so I set about hacking the smartjoy adaptor.
There was a bit of room inside the smartjoy so I managed to get my additional components inside the original case.
In the pictures below, you can see that I mounted the chip its back (like a dead bug) so that I could solder wires to the legs. To make space I removed the nasty memory card slot. The chip is quite large but I was surprised by how well this fit.
The hole at the top of the smart joy (were the memory card slot was) is a convenient exit hole for the wires to the arcade controls.
I screwed some terminal blocks on the outside of the smartjoy.
(https://sites.google.com/site/degenatrons/_/rsrc/1339197163837/controller-interfaces/xbox-interface/smartjoy_hack_smaller.jpg)
I only paid a few pounds for the parts and I did not need a PS/2 cable. You can see that I just glued wires into the port.
Total cost for me was not more than £4 - but I did buy a bunch of smartjoys to get some discount.
This is very functional, I tested using the gamepad test tool on xbox.
Mappings working for:
* Dpad (up/down/left/right)
* Analog Stick (up/down/left/right)
* Left and Right Triggers
* Left and Right Thumb Buttons
* A,B,X,Y
* Black, White
* Back, Start
* PS/2 or USB Trackball/Mouse
That's 20 inputs! Plus the trackball/mouse. Not bad eh!
Some other neat features:
* Analog sticks can be inverted
* Deadzone/Mouse sensitivity can be adjusted
* Left and Right sticks can be swapped (invert look/move)
* I found that the buttons on mouse/trackball can sometimes be assigned to xbox button. This feature depends on device.
For all this to work, it needs a mouse (PS/2 or USB) connected to the mouse port - even if it is not used. If you have a trackball then great, otherwise you can grab a PS/2 mouse for almost nothing - if you don't have one in the loft already.
EDIT: It will now work without the need for a connected trackball/mouse. This is done by spoofing the mouse by bridinging 2 pins (clock and data) on the mouse port with 10ohm (or other low value) resistor. Credit to "John" on the CoinOps forum for this awesome contribution. If you have a mouse or trackball then obviously you won't need to spoof.
For reference, You can see a picture at the bottom of my project page at https://sites.google.com/site/degenatrons/controller-interfaces/xbox-gamepad-encoder-mkii (https://sites.google.com/site/degenatrons/controller-interfaces/xbox-gamepad-encoder-mkii)
Here is a demo video.
DIY Arcade Interface - Xbox Gamepad Encoder (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El2gYKyLANY#)
I am happy with this so it will be going inside my CoinOps arcade cab.
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Cool. I have one of these joy frags and they work fine for Halo, but the mouse function is a bit on the slow side. Perfect for Spinner games though. ;D
I would love to get my joy frag working with this mod.
Kudos for sharing. :applaud:
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Cool. I have one of these joy frags and they work fine for Halo, but the mouse function is a bit on the slow side. Perfect for Spinner games though. ;D
I would love to get my joy frag working with this mod.
Kudos for sharing. :applaud:
You should try adjusting the mouse deadzone setting on your smartjoy. Sensitivity can be set between 0 and 100.
Press ESC and a number key and fine tune with + and - keys. Some information on this page should help you do that: http://hardware.teamxbox.com/articles/xbox/954/SmartJoy-FRAG-Review/p3/ (http://hardware.teamxbox.com/articles/xbox/954/SmartJoy-FRAG-Review/p3/)
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Are you going to do a step by step tut on the these, or keep that secret so you can make a little coin..... :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:
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Doing a step by step video for these - should be out very soon.
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Awesome.....ordering the parts then.....woohoo
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Looks promosing.
What did you do to update the ps2 keyboard encoder?
Are you using this? http://www.leien.info/buttonbox/ (http://www.leien.info/buttonbox/)
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I think as it's a keyboard IC, it works out of the box.
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Looks promosing.
What did you do to update the ps2 keyboard encoder?
Are you using this? http://www.leien.info/buttonbox/ (http://www.leien.info/buttonbox/)
Hey Sharpfork, Thanks.
The chip I add inside the smartjoy is a PS/2 encoder that uses a matrix to map some inputs to generate scancodes. These are sent as keyboard input to the smartjoy PS/2 port. Some people would hack a keyboard to do this sort of thing, but I managed to find a cheap PS/2 encoder and built myself a basic circuit.
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I think as it's a keyboard IC, it works out of the box.
Yep, you're right. The Ps/2 chip works out of the box. (Edited)
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I put a video to show how this was built and at the end I test it with some controls.
DIY Arcade Interface - Xbox Gamepad Encoder (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El2gYKyLANY#)
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Great. :applaud:
Instead of soldering the wires to the chip, can you use a socket instead?
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Great. :applaud:
Instead of soldering the wires to the chip, can you use a socket instead?
Yep, I was going to do that actually, but decided against to keep the cost down.
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UPDATE:
It will now work without the need for a connected trackball/mouse. This can be done by spoofing the mouse by bridinging 2 pins (clock and data) on the mouse port with a 10ohm (or other low value) resistor. Credit to "John" on the CoinOps forum for this awesome contribution.
If you have a connected mouse or trackball then obviously you won't need to do this spoof.
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Will a 56k resistor work with this, i can't find a 58.3k anywhere.
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yep, that should be ok, it's the chips spec that says 58.3k. I used a 59k resistor and these are easy to find.
Resistor sets the clock speed. It shouldnt need to be super accurate. I will run some tests with different value resistors to try to work out the range.
For now, I would recommend 59k. I will update my info too.
I got my 59k resistors from here for £0.03 each!
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=1563238 (http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=1563238)
I also found some 59k at RS in UK
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/through-hole-fixed/6833853/ (http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/through-hole-fixed/6833853/)
and at mouser
http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Xicon/271-59K-RC/?qs=ALy0fn3lC2vlV%2feHSbQsmNFoA5s7tWTtdPV715ddMAk%3d (http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Xicon/271-59K-RC/?qs=ALy0fn3lC2vlV%2feHSbQsmNFoA5s7tWTtdPV715ddMAk%3d)
You should find similar at other suppliers. Just look for 59k.
I think I will remove reference to 58.3k, they are difficult to source.
Cheers
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For folks with super solder skills, here is the layout for the ps/2 pin on the PCB. You should be able to solder the wires to these points under the board, hot glue, and wrap this around the backside into the chip. It's not necessary, but just in case you want a cleaner look to the frag.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=186199;image)
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UPDATE:
It will now work without the need for a connected trackball/mouse. This can be done by spoofing the mouse by bridinging 2 pins (clock and data) on the mouse port with a 10ohm (or other low value) resistor. Credit to "John" on the CoinOps forum for this awesome contribution.
If you have a connected mouse or trackball then obviously you won't need to do this spoof.
I assume you would spoof the keyboard side. Would that allow a trackball to be plugged in as needed?
I have one of these kicking around that would be nice to try: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10758 (http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10758)
Also, can anyone recommend a US supplier for the non frag parts? I can solder well but have only ordered parts in ready to solder kits and am afraid I'm going to but the wrong stuff and waste time.
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For folks with super solder skills, here is the layout for the ps/2 pin on the PCB. You should be able to solder the wires to these points under the board, hot glue, and wrap this around the backside into the chip. It's not necessary, but just in case you want a cleaner look to the frag.
Very useful reference for this. Thanks for the post.
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UPDATE:
It will now work without the need for a connected trackball/mouse. This can be done by spoofing the mouse by bridinging 2 pins (clock and data) on the mouse port with a 10ohm (or other low value) resistor. Credit to "John" on the CoinOps forum for this awesome contribution.
If you have a connected mouse or trackball then obviously you won't need to do this spoof.
I assume you would spoof the keyboard side. Would that allow a trackball to be plugged in as needed?
I have one of these kicking around that would be nice to try: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10758 (http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10758)
Also, can anyone recommend a US supplier for the non frag parts? I can solder well but have only ordered parts in ready to solder kits and am afraid I'm going to but the wrong stuff and waste time.
If you are plugging a trackball then you would not need to spoof at all: The keyboard IC is connected to the keyboard port and does not need to be spoofed.
When I plug wires into the front of the smartjoy it makes it obvious that this port is used. If wiring to the PCB then I would suggest desoldering and removing the keyboard port as I do not think it is possible to run 2 keyboard simultaneously. Another option would be to have a switch to set input from keyboard IC or keyboard port.
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modded xbox setup is serious bizness..only $800 :laugh2:
http://newyork.craigslist.org/que/vgm/3085689618.html (http://newyork.craigslist.org/que/vgm/3085689618.html)
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Maybe they are scarce in Queens.... :dunno
I heard the clear cases are rare........and I heard having exactly 300 games is super rare....I'd jump on that deal.... :lol
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I like how hilariously bad the description is. doesn't even say what kind of hard drive. for all I know I am getting snes emulator with "300 games" :laugh2:
this guy gets some kind of "dumbest ad ever" award.
(sorry about the off topic..back to haxing) :burgerking:
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The Spark Fun trackball should work just fine with an active PS/2 -> USB adapter ($2) plugged into a USB -> Xbox adapter. ($7)
Not to derail the thread but they don't really work this way. They work in XBMC but not in any of the emus.
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*shrug* People have reported it works fine with CoinOps 4. Anything that's worked in XBMC has also worked in CoinOps for me.
If you remember where you saw that, please PM me and point me in the right direction. i've tried 4 different trackballs in coinops 2/3/4 and only the xArcade one works.
I'm going to build a couple of these and see how the sparkfun cheepo works in coinops too.
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*shrug* People have reported it works fine with CoinOps 4. Anything that's worked in XBMC has also worked in CoinOps for me.
If you remember where you saw that, please PM me and point me in the right direction. i've tried 4 different trackballs in coinops 2/3/4 and only the xArcade one works.
I'm going to build a couple of these and see how the sparkfun cheepo works in coinops too.
PBJ is spot on there. I have tried Kensington trackballs that work great with Coinops 4. I have a bunch of GoldenT TV trackballs that are working fine (obviously mouse hacked).
My old Penny PS/2 trackball works a treat. Had problems saving the settings with Coinops 3 but I will try tonight with CoinOPS 4 and see if that has been fixed.
BP did a lot of work getting trackball and mouse working. I do not know about light gun as I have only one TV light gun for the Xbox and have yet to hook it up to a conventional TV. Topguns work though. ;D
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This is my first attempt at fabricating my own pcb board from scratch, came out pretty darn good. This was just for fun, but the idea is to be able to plug the PCB into the smartjoy and give you terminal blocks to wire too, same concept just prettier I guess.
I don't know jack squat about electrical or connections, i just looked at degenetrons video and took a stab at it. I plan on getting some sockets as they are only .37 cents a piece, and soldering that to the board, my solder skills arent that great so i dont want to ruin the chips. Also, if a chip ever fails i can just pop the old out and plug in a new one.
Any suggestions would be great or pointing out where i screwed up or what i could do different. Or the old this was stupid why in the hell did you did you do that reply.... :dunno This was more of a see if i could do it thing.. :cheers:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=186557;image)
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Wow! This is pretty neat for a first attempt Rablack! Good work. I will take a closer look at the circuit later.
I have some important findings after running more vigourous testing of the hack...
I encountered a blocking issue when using the analog directions. Analog is mapped to W, A, S and D on the keyboard. Basically, the IC uses a keyboard matrix and unfortunately these keys are mostly assigned to the same pins. There is a limit on the number of keys that can be pressed on the same pin on this cheap keyboard IC :(
A potential workaround is to reprogram the smartjoy to use other keys for the analog directions. I will take a look at this.
I have this working perfectly when using the dpad directions. There is more flexibility with arrow keys on the matrix table - there are 2 sets of direction keys so we can avoid conflicts.
So here is my setup and recommendation for your key mappings:
(https://sites.google.com/site/degenatrons/_/rsrc/1340616151052/controller-interfaces/xbox-gamepad-encoder-mkii/ic_mappings.jpg)
With this setup you can move all directions (incl diagonals) and have 4 buttons pressed simulateously. I am using 14 buttons in my cab.
I added the analog keys (in light gray) for reference purposes. These should be avoided until I work out a fix :banghead:
I will take a look to see if there is a better 40pin IC keyboard chip so we can use with the analog directions.
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ok, I think i can workaround any blocking issue by reprogramming the smartjoys key mappings.
Note that reprogramming will not be necessary if you want to use d-pad and the default key combination from my previous post.
Smart joy reprogramming:
It is done by connecting a PS/2 keyboard to the keyboard port.
There are 8 presets which can be loaded by pressing function keys F1 through to F8
The factory default can be recalled by pressing F12
It is possible to change key mappings for all buttons. It is not possible to change key mappings for analog sticks.
To get this working properly with analog we need to reassign other buttons so they don't conflict with the assigned analog direction keys (W, A, S and D)
To change a key mapping...
press and hold down the ESC key, press the key to change, press the new key (e.g. The smartjoy default key for X button is the X key. X appears on the same row in the key matrix as the analog up and down. We could remap to Left-Shift key which is on a row (R15) and otherwise unused.
A couple of other simple changes and we remove the blocking.
To save a preset press ESC and one of the function keys together.
To load a preset press one of the function keys.
To get the preset to load on startup we can wire 2 pins together. F5 is a good key to use as it does not share pins with other default keys.
These are just some notes of the top of my head to alleviate my own concerns with the analog mappings.
To reprogram, we need to know the sequence of key presses.
I will test this (when i get another smartjoy delivered) and publish the sequence.
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Thanks, although it's trash now that you've waited to point out this blocking issue. :angry: :banghead: :soapbox: :badmood:
LOL, no worries though this was a prototype, and I still need to do some hole placement adjustments and I'm sure once you look at the circuits you will see that I did didnt complete my ground loop from the resistor to the chip. I think when i did my auto-route it erased the trace in between both resistors..I noticed it once i posted the blown up picture on here..... :banghead: :banghead:
Once I figured out how you were wiring the jstik and buttons, I was like how in the world am I gonna get traces to all of these pins. That's what i came up with after a few hours. It didnt dawn on me that you dont have to use the whole matrix on your video, some dont apply to the xbox config.
Ok, on these ananlog sticks, my question is how often are they used in the mini arcade setup? You only have one stick, and even if you have a 2-player setup it would be awkward. The D-pad should be plenty or are you saying there is no diagonal movement on the D-pad setup?
Something i was pondering was using the xbox to usb adaptor and placing a passthrough via player 2 somewhere on the side or in the front....So if anyone using it wants to use a stick, they just pug into it. This would also help with some of the coin ops configuration issues. You could label it service or something.
Let me know what you find and I'll redo the traces. Also before i order the rest of the parts, is this something you'd be interested in seeing completed? I dont want to jam up your thread with crud that you dont feel will help the project.
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Is working analog stick mapping a requirement for this project or a nice to have? ???
When I started doing encoder testing with padhacks, I mapped every single every control I thought I would use in an xbox controller and that meant I included the shoulder buttons and the analog clicks. I have never once wished that I had analog sticks other than a few emu cores needing it for initial screen config which I do by temporarily plugging a pad in.
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Hey rablack,
Thanks.
I always map to the dpad and I reckon this is the most common approach. However, I thought I had better mention the analog stick blocking because someone might want to do that.
If you use the mapping table from my earlier post then you won't have problems. D-pad includes diagonals by combining direction keys. I tested diaganals and 4 button presses together in my cab with this setup.
I can workaround the analog blocking issue by reprogramming the smartjoy. Maybe this will not be a requirement though.
For a basic cab setup, which is probably the most common for xbox cabs then we are fine and as you say, we can disregard some of the pins.
(https://sites.google.com/site/degenatrons/_/rsrc/1340637196910/controller-interfaces/xbox-gamepad-encoder-mkii/ic_mappings.jpg)
We need 16 pins for this setup (d-pad, A,B,X,Y,LT,RT,White,Black,Start,Back).
Pins are C0,C1,C2,C3,C4,C5,R1,R2,R4,R5,R7,R10,R11,R12,R13,R14
I think we can simplify your schematic if we stick to these pins. Unless anyone thinks we should map to more.
If we add R3 then we are covered for both thumb stick presses too. Not sure if this is of great benefit. If I need to do something outside of gaming then i normally plug in a controller anyhow - I mount the controller ports in the back panel normally.
I would add R3 so we need 17 pins for mappings + pins for PS/2 lines and oscillator.
I don't understand how your terminal block arrangement would work on your pcb. Maybe you should add traces between IC pins and the terminal. I'm assuming this would currently require wiring from IC to terminals.
I would recommend breadboarding this out to make sure it works before commiting to PCB production. Also, need to decide if our basic keymappings is what people want.
I appreciate your contribution and you are helping the project. Keep posting. Thanks.
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Is working analog stick mapping a requirement for this project or a nice to have? ???
When I started doing encoder testing with padhacks, I mapped every single every control I thought I would use in an xbox controller and that meant I included the shoulder buttons and the analog clicks. I have never once wished that I had analog sticks other than a few emu cores needing it for initial screen config which I do by temporarily plugging a pad in.
Hey thanks sharp.
Thanks for that post. It is a weight of my mind now. Analog is a nice to have, and it is possible if i reprogram the presets on the smartjoy. However, I would rather not do that.
I think we should run with d-pad and my working arrangement (as per table) then this would be working without issue.
Do you think there is any point in including mappings for L & R thumbstick press?
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I think you answered my question about the L/R thumbs already sharpfork. Thanks.
We should not include them and keep this nice and easy. Any config needs doing, then plug in a controller.
So we need 16 pins for input.
Rablack - If it will help you i don't mind knocking up a schematic for the circuit. Your earlier PCB is etched really well but I think it needs some work on mapping inputs from terminals to PCB. Are you using some design tool?
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Hey thanks sharp. Thanks for that post.
No problem. I do a bit of software product management and architecting in my job so I'm used to keeping engineers/coders on track. :cheers:
I don't want to see secondary use cases derail a great project.
On another note, I'm not going to be including analog clicks on my final CP, I want it as clean as possible. I'm debating if I should even add the left/right triggers since scrolling via D pad has been sped up when held.
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I agree with you both, thumbsticks for this application is null and void.
The only time you would really use them for CoinOps would be for screen resizing which is available for certain games, and reconfiguration of your button layout, which also is only available on certain games.
I think your basic layout should suit just fine.
I'm using a application called Pad2Pad, its free....I can send you the file I was working on if you dont want to work from scratch via email.
There are others out there, but since i'm a beginner at this, this app seemed to be more user friendly than the others.
I'm a bit confused on your confusion on the traces....I thought that's what i was doing was mapping IC pins to the terminal blocks?
Per your matrix there are some keys that require the use of the same pin. So what i did was look at your first matrix chart(video), pick out the keys I wanted to use and used a filter to find out how many times that pin was used. So for example in your new schematic pin C1 is used 5 times, so I connected 5 terminals to that pin.
My thinking was in order for the connection to produce the movement the circuit had to be closed, + to R1, - to C1, so even thought the trace is attach horizontally to the adjacent terminals it wouldn't matter unless those buttons were pressed to complete their circuits to the other pins.
Unless your talking about branching out the traces before they reach the terminal blocks. If so, there was a spacing issue with the other traces, and that's why it looks like it does now.
I'm not an expert, so i'm logically going through the motions on this, i look for you and the forum to keep me grounded on the realism of what works and what doesn't.
Let me know if you want the file to toy around with, i'll look at your new matrix tonight.
I'm gonna drill some holes in this thing tonight to make sure eveything fits.
Question, would the spoof resistor totally screw up the ps/2 interface for the mouse? If we hard soldered the resistor under the board, and plugged in a trackball etc, would it not work....Just asking as a switch to toggle between spoof mode and ps/2 interface mode would be cool for upgrade purposes..or is that even possible.
I was thinking about removing the mouse jack and using it for the prototype PCB we are working on...to save a few dollars, but that would totally rule out ever upgrading the smart joy with a trackball. Any thoughts?
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I think we are agreed on the layout then. Nice one.
I take onboard what pinballjim is saying re: box games with analog, but this would overcomplicate this project. For these games it is more authentic to plug in an xbox controller anyhow.
I have done a fair bit of electronics but have never had to make a PCB so this is a learning curve for me too! I will take a look at pad2pad. It would be cool if you would send the file.
Sorry, I misinterpreted your layout. It looks good. I took a quick look earlier and assumed the IC was top of photo when viewed from my mobile. It was only when I got home I noticed the black lines surrounding the IC. So no confusion about the traces and your reasoning if correct re: the connections being closed. It is a very good attempt and you have included a good idea to hang multiple terminals per pin.
So, this would need to be updated to use the new matrix table.
A couple of thoughts.
The terminals can be bigger than 0.1" pitch. The 0.2" and above ones will be significantly cheaper.
For terminals, we can use fewer if we share them..or..
If we have a dedicated terminal for each connection then this makes it possible to logically group them. The traces can go around the IC so that terminals are next to each other in a line e.g. An 8 way terminals could be arranged as |up1|up2|down1|down2|left1|left2|right1|right2|. It would then be super easy to connect controls.
There is an argument either way, less terminals is simper layout and cheaper. More terminals has better order and usability.
A connected mouse would not work with the resistor in place. A simple switch can cut the resistors connection from clock to data to allow mouse to function. This could be labelled as trackball/no trackball.
To save cost you could leave of the port but keep traces and mount holes in place. I have seen this on some other PCB's. If someone wants a trackball they can add the port or solder wires direct to PCB.
Or you could have 4 screw terminals for trackball (Live|Ground|Clock|Data).
One of the above options should make it possible to keep the trackball.
Great work Rablack :applaud:. This is coming on nice, I think.
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More terminals has better order and usability.
More terminals please...
I agree with you both, thumbsticks for this application is null and void.
Question, would the spoof resistor totally screw up the ps/2 interface for the mouse? If we hard soldered the resistor under the board, and plugged in a trackball etc, would it not work....Just asking as a switch to toggle between spoof mode and ps/2 interface mode would be cool for upgrade purposes..or is that even possible.
I was thinking about removing the mouse jack and using it for the prototype PCB we are working on...to save a few dollars, but that would totally rule out ever upgrading the smart joy with a trackball. Any thoughts?
Unless there is a reason to keep the programability, I was planning on pulling the keyboard jack and putting the resistor on that side. I would think this would allow that ability to add in a trackball or mouse if needed.
You don't need analog support for CoinOps, you will need it if you plan on playing any Xbox games.
For instance, Gauntlet Dark Legacy is decently ported to Xbox. Can't play it with the d-pad. This is where the X Arcade encoder really excels as you can easily switch modes.
It is cool that the xArcade does that. I just pull out a gamepad on the rare occasion I play an xBox1 game.
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johnm offered a really neat solution...
to use 16-way ribbon cable
This would be really tidy and super easy to connect to PCB and controls. :applaud: Thanks John
There could be a single 16-way connector mounted on the PCB. The cable would have 16-way header on one side and 4.7mm or 6.3mm terminals on the other side so it would double up as a wiring harness.
I have seen this type of arrangement with Xin-Mo encoder. This made use of lots of 4-way headers so you could connect 4 directions and 4, 8 or 12 buttons.
For the pcb, we could simply plug the whole cable in one go like an IDE cable.
This is a lot simpler and a lot cheaper. The 16-way cable is about £1/metre on ebay.
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Links man links, I need to see what your talking about......I'm visual.
16 way ribbon cable with terminals.....graphics please.
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Links man links, I need to see what your talking about......I'm visual.
16 way ribbon cable with terminals.....graphics please.
16-way ribbon is pretty common, as is 40-way ribbon (but you probably now this as IDE cable)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10pcs-IDC-Box-header-DC3-DC3-16P-16-pins-2-54mm-Pitch-/130598577525?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e68482575 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10pcs-IDC-Box-header-DC3-DC3-16P-16-pins-2-54mm-Pitch-/130598577525?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e68482575)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IDC-Ribbon-Header-Box-IDC-16-Way-Box-Right-Angle-Low-Profile-PCB-15-pcs-/150837802005?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item231ea23415 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IDC-Ribbon-Header-Box-IDC-16-Way-Box-Right-Angle-Low-Profile-PCB-15-pcs-/150837802005?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item231ea23415)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Grey-Ribbon-Cable-Wire-16-Way-Per-Metre-/290663229506?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item43ace0e842 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Grey-Ribbon-Cable-Wire-16-Way-Per-Metre-/290663229506?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item43ace0e842)
Actually, now i sober up a little. I think that we will need more than 16-way. We are going to need 14x2 = 28-way.
You can get other sizes. 30-way at http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10x-Double-Rows-2x15-Pin-FC-30-Connectors-PCB-IDC-Pin-Headers-/310404320211?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&hash=item48458a0bd3 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10x-Double-Rows-2x15-Pin-FC-30-Connectors-PCB-IDC-Pin-Headers-/310404320211?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&hash=item48458a0bd3)
or we could just use IDE standard with 40-way.
so a connector is mounted to pcb and headers are added to wires. These connectors look like this when mounted
(http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/229-792-thickbox/xin-mo-1-player-arcade-controller-to-usb-pc-or-ps3.jpg)
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use 16-way ribbon cable
Is this really that much cheeper than screw terminals?
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I think it may be, but I'm also thinking we are pre-determining wire lengths using the cable....
Plus you see how thin that stuff is, ever try stripping the wire?
After you dolder the headers, clamp the cable and wire to jstik, something will have broken at that point.
You can get 10 terminals for like 17.00, i'm gonna have to see how many terminals we use total on the new setup.
IMHO, i'd rather cut my own wrie lengths to my sticks and buttons, and use a larger gauge wire rather than the thin cable.
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IMHO, i'd rather cut my own wrie lengths to my sticks and buttons, and use a larger gauge wire rather than the thin cable.
I agree.
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Yeah, doesn't look that much cleaner with the new matrix......Anybody come up with anything different?
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=186633;image)
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IMHO, i'd rather cut my own wrie lengths to my sticks and buttons, and use a larger gauge wire rather than the thin cable.
I agree.
Some good points here guys. Screw terminals used with larger gauge wire and cut to length will make it neater and easier.
It is worth investigating all of the options though.
I previously bought a batch of 100 x 0.1" pitch 12 way terminals from ebay at http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400263587239?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400263587239?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649)
total of $148 plus i paid $3 for the shipping. I don't recommend the free shipping as it can take 2 months! With $3 shipping it took 2 weeks.
This works out at $1.50 per 12 way terminal.
I use them on another MAME project - http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=120362.msg1277486#msg1277486 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=120362.msg1277486#msg1277486)
We have 14 buttons with 2 inputs per button = 28.
You can get 4-way in the same style at http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10pcs-4-Poles-2-54mm-0-1-PCB-Universal-Screw-Terminal-Block-/130676048037?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e6ce640a5 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10pcs-4-Poles-2-54mm-0-1-PCB-Universal-Screw-Terminal-Block-/130676048037?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e6ce640a5)
to make up the extra 4.
Maybe it would be better to have one large bank of terminals with logical grouping so it is easier to wire up. No reason for terminals to be ordered in the same sequence as the keyboard IC.
For e.g. there could be a trace running from pins C0 and R12 (up) to terminals that are next to each other - instead of on different sides of the IC.
This would make for a smaller and cleaner PCB.
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If you're designing a board around this surely it would be better seeing if the smartjoy components could be removed and placed on the same board as the keyboard ic?
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Your are correct.
Degenetrons mentioned trying to get the code off the cypress chip on the frag and reflashing it to another chip, and rebuilding the entire board with his mod. Costs and time kinda drove that idea into the water for him, so this is merely a side thing that i picked up as a just to see if it could be done thing.
Really the only benefit to this board is to get cleaner terminal connections to the j-stik and buttons. Degenetrons method is perfect as it is, as its super cheap and it works. This piece is a oh cool nice to have but not needed addition.
I have attached a pic of the internals of the smartjoy, as you can see, there's a alot to remove, and you risk damaging the chips, and there are ton of tiny resistors all over the board.
This mod requires basic soldering, and uses bigger resistors :laugh:
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I have attached a pic of the internals of the smartjoy, as you can see, there's a alot to remove, and you risk damaging the chips, and there are ton of tiny resistors all over the board.
Rablack, the internals of your smartjoy look a little different to mine. Can you plug it to your xbox, attach a keyboard, and check the keymappings match those expected below. I'm pretty sure they should just but I just wanted to do a sanity check.
left cursor key = dpad left
numpad 6 = dpad right
numpad 8 = dpad up
numpad 2 = dpad down
spacebar = A button
key B = B button
key X = X button
key Y = Y button
key L = reft trigger
tey R = right trigger
tab key = black button
capslock = white button
backspace = back button
enter (on main keyboard) = start button
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That doesn't look like a smartjoy frag Degenatron has been modding, firstly there isn't a memory slot and secondly the board is different not just in colour but the number of components topside.
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That doesn't look like a smartjoy frag Degenatron has been modding, firstly there isn't a memory slot and secondly the board is different not just in colour but the number of components topside.
I'm looking into that now per Degenetrons post, there is a memory slot, i just pulled the black piece off the silver pins are in the center, hard to see.
I have attached a pic of the internals of the smartjoy, as you can see, there's a alot to remove, and you risk damaging the chips, and there are ton of tiny resistors all over the board.
Rablack, the internals of your smartjoy look a little different to mine. Can you plug it to your xbox, attach a keyboard, and check the keymappings match those expected below. I'm pretty sure they should just but I just wanted to do a sanity check.
left cursor key = dpad left
numpad 6 = dpad right
numpad 8 = dpad up
numpad 2 = dpad down
spacebar = A button
key B = B button
key X = X button
key Y = Y button
key L = reft trigger
tey R = right trigger
tab key = black button
capslock = white button
backspace = back button
enter (on main keyboard) = start button
Only difference i can see, is that my d-pads are all mapped to the cursor keys and not the num pads.
Although have hit a snag, i plugged up 3 different keyboards, and all are non responsive on the smartjoy, the capslock is lit up but the num lock led is flashing. I assume you meant use the test disk to test the mappings but I cant get the keyboard to do anything on the xbox.
I'm sure we are ordering form the same guy as he's the only one on ebay selling these things cheap and in bulk, i dont know why we have two different models.
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It looks like there are two different versions of the original smartjoy frag, plus some third party versions. The functionality should be the same for them all. It's only the default key mappings that we are concerned about - and these will hopefully be consistent.
Rablack can you post a pic of your smartjoy case for reference?
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Although have hit a snag, i plugged up 3 different keyboards, and all are non responsive on the smartjoy, the capslock is lit up but the num lock led is flashing. I assume you meant use the test disk to test the mappings but I cant get the keyboard to do anything on the xbox.
I find for these to work reliably you will also need to plug a mouse - or spoof it.
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Yeah something is wrong, the model I have doesnt seem to recognize the keyboard.
I forgot all about the mouse part, i plugged one up and still nothing. Are you using a ps/2 mouse or a usb mouse with an adaptor. That may be the issue.
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In rablack97's pcb picture it says at the bottom xboxfps adaptor 1.1, it could be a later version than the one degenatron modded.
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OK figured it out....
I went to the review at TomsHardware site. Apparently this thing is sensitive in regards to the type of mouse that you use. I don't have my 10ohm resistors yet. So after reading i just plugged in my wireless adaptor for a wireless mouse and it worked fine. It seems like this think doesn't like optical mice, or there are only certain ones that work.
The num lock was flashing due to compatibility, it was solid green when i plugged in the wireless adaptor.
So back to the testing....
As stated the only thing different is the d-pad keys, on the 1.1 version they are all on the cursor keys, no num pad arrows used.
All other buttons on the layout are identical.
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OK figured it out....
I went to the review at TomsHardware site. Apparently this thing is sensitive in regards to the type of mouse that you use. I don't have my 10ohm resistors yet. So after reading i just plugged in my wireless adaptor for a wireless mouse and it worked fine. It seems like this think doesn't like optical mice, or there are only certain ones that work.
The num lock was flashing due to compatibility, it was solid green when i plugged in the wireless adaptor.
So back to the testing....
As stated the only thing different is the d-pad keys, on the 1.1 version they are all on the cursor keys, no num pad arrows used.
All other buttons on the layout are identical.
I tested my smartjoy with a bunch of mice. It works with pretty much everything I tried (optical, wired, PS/2 and USB with PS/2 adapter). Only mouse that did not work for me was a cheap miniature USB one - from a £1 store.
It is important that we get directions from numeric keypad working with this smartjoy. Was the numeric keypad unresponsive? Maybe it is the keyboard you are using. I assume you tried turning off numlock? ;D
I can't really investigate myself until I get this new batch of smartjoys. Hopefully they will be same as yours rablack. The build quality definitely looks better on your version.
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No worries man, I just followed the instructions to reassign the keys, so now they match yours......This will need to be added to any instructions based on the smartjoy version.
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No worries man, I just followed the instructions to reassign the keys, so now they match yours......This will need to be added to any instructions based on the smartjoy version.
Instructions - wow. You got a manual with yours too :)
I take it that you saved the keymapping change as a preset? Was this saved against F1 to F8 key? If so you mayl need to press that function key to recall the mapping. Unless yours allows to save over the default? Please can you trying unplugging smartjoy or resetting xbox to see if settings are retained? Cheers.
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Yeah i got a manual, quick reference card.
Yep i unplugged and booted kept the F1 pre-set I saved.
So looks like we are ok....
If you notice, our vendor from Florida has shot up on the prices on these smartjoys by like 5 bucks. I'm sure bulkwise he'd haggle though. I'm gonna redo my PCB layout tonight to see if i can get the buttons and the stick terminals together....There's gonna be a crap load of traces though.
I checked the continuity on the 1st board and all the traces worked. I'm gonna wided my trace and make the holes on the pads smaller next go round to ensure a good connection.
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Ok,
Two versions of the board...
The cleaner version as far as the PCB goes will require you to cross wires to get to the correct terminals, which could make for a hot wiring mess.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=186687;image)
The more complex version requires 2 sides of the board but the wiring layout is much cleaner and side by side.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=186685;image)
I'm gonna etch both for the hell of it, wish me luck on that darn double sided pile of manure........
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Ok,
Two versions of the board...
The cleaner version as far as the PCB goes will require you to cross wires to get to the correct terminals, which could make for a hot wiring mess...
The more complex version requires 2 sides of the board but the wiring layout is much cleaner and side by side.
Is V1 just a matter of having an odd wiring sequence or is there something more complex required? Unless the double sided boards are super easy to make, I say just go with v1.
The one request I have is to make a single contact for hitting start + back so we could wire in an exit button.
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V1 will require you to follow degenetrons matrix for wiring.
V2 if successful will have the sequences next to one another so wiring is cleaner and easier, no matrix needed.
Ok,
Two versions of the board...
The cleaner version as far as the PCB goes will require you to cross wires to get to the correct terminals, which could make for a hot wiring mess...
The more complex version requires 2 sides of the board but the wiring layout is much cleaner and side by side.
The one request I have is to make a single contact for hitting start + back so we could wire in an exit button.
Forgot all about that, I mentioned that to Degenetron early on in the build, ill add the traces for that sequence...
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I've hit writers block...I can't figure out a workable way to get the start+back = exit function to work...
Its gonna take 4 IC pin to get it to work , 2 pins for start and 2 pins for back.....The logic is if you connect 2 pins you get a function....so really theres no way i can think of to create a start function and an exit function w/o connecting the pins before they get to the actual terminal for exit. I'm thinking this would simulate the start button being held down and never released.
Any ideas?
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I've hit writers block...I can't figure out a workable way to get the start+back = exit function to work...
Its gonna take 4 IC pin to get it to work , 2 pins for start and 2 pins for back.....The logic is if you connect 2 pins you get a function....so really theres no way i can think of to create a start function and an exit function w/o connecting the pins before they get to the actual terminal for exit. I'm thinking this would simulate the start button being held down and never released.
Any ideas?
Hey rablack, this should be quite simple...
If you take a look at my key matrix (below) you can see that "start" and "back" are on the same row (R10).
You can connect R10 to one terminal.
You can connect columns C1 and C4 to another terminal. This is safe because connecting columns only will not generate input.
If you bridge these 2 new terminals you will get start+back.
(https://sites.google.com/site/degenatrons/_/rsrc/1340637196910/controller-interfaces/xbox-gamepad-encoder-mkii/ic_mappings.jpg)
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I think for my last suggestion to work properly we will need to add a diode to the circuit so that C1+C4 combination is not permanent.
If C1 and C4 are wired you will get "exit" when pressing "start" and "back" on their own.
I will see if I can think of another simpler way.
We do have another enter key (i.e. start) available. This is C2+R14. I will have a think on that.
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I know you want everything onboard but if you look at industrial buttons you'll find they have multi switching set ups that would be ideal for keeping circuits seperate. Telemechanique make a range of buttons with interchangeable and stackable contact blocks, either n/o or n/c, you could have several of either or a combination of both.
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Did some testing and nothing good came out of it.
2 things,
I dont think the spoofing trick works with the 1.1 version of the frag. I picked up a few 10ohm resistors plugs the ends into clock and data and the smartjoy will not recognize. So i just hooked up my mouse
I wired everything up per the matrix and at first it did nothing then a few buttons works then it all just stopped working totally, not sure if the chip got fried or what.......I hope I get this working, if not i got a pile of parts that might go up in flames.......... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
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Hey rablack, I thought you 'd tried out the spoofing already on the unopened smartjoy - to test the keymappings.
The locking up happens when the smartjoy does not get a valid response from a connected keyboard or mouse. If it locks up when your mouse is connected then I suspect that the keyboard IC is not acknowledging and that may be down to the wiring.
Can you verify that the spoof was working on the unopened smartjoy?
Can you send/post some close up pics of the wiring to the IC? and I will see if I can see anything.
Thanks
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It was late last night so i'm gonna try again today.
The your referring to involved plugging in a keyboard and mouse.
I took your advice and breadboarded the entire matrix per the video etc. So it was the hot mess of wiring that has failed. I noticed also that the spoof was not working before i breadboarded the matrix, the 10ohm to data and clock is not triggering the ghost effect for the mouse.
It may have to with the more complex circuitry on the newer board that i have, which explains why your board can accept all kinds of mice and mine is choosy.
To be more detailed i had all the wires running to arcade buttons, the whole setup, I'm assuming one wire goes to normally open and the other to COM. I wanted to do this to troubleshoot the blocking you were talking about.
I'll redo and send photos.
I've also received some goodies for the prototype board, and need some suggestions and ideas in regards to the connectors.
I'll send photos
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ok i figured out why it wasnt working, my wires werent long enough for the ps/2 inserts for for the keyboard port. I'm able to get to read inputs now..
Still one issue, the resistor spoofing trick does not work for v1.1, i have tried different resistors and it will not initialize unless a real mouse is plugged in.
So at this point it looks like my version will need a mouse connected to it.
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What value resistors did you try? degenatron tried a 150 ohm resistor and it worked.
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also try bridging ground and power to spoof the mouse - instead of clock and data.
Hopefully I will have some v1.1's in the batch that I ordered from US weeks ago. It's frustrating waiting for the post.
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i tried a different variety 59k 56k 100ohm 10 ohm, that's all i i have handy.
I also read up on your trial and errors degenetrons and did attempt to bridge the - and +, i used the 10 ohm doing that and got a funny smell and the resistor got very hot.
I think some extra coding or cirucuitry was added for mouse stability and now the chips on my board aren't liking our trickery, cause as soon as the mouse goes in, it works fine.
Another thing i found out is once the mouse is plugged in and recognized, it can be removed and the buttons still work. It's like it only needs it for initial bootup and then thats it.
After looking at your smartjoy degenetron, I think you got a hold of the knockoff version. The case on your version doesn't say smartjoy frag, I did some research and a knockoff version was fabricated soon after the original versions were made. In your post you said the memeory slot just wiggles off, the one is mine is soldered in really good. It's gonna take some desoldering to get the pins out. So you can see where the 3rd party cut corners. I buy from a guy in Florida, his are the real deal. This may be why you were able to spoof your version, sad thing is the knockoff works....
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Looking at pictures on ebay and google it does look like the smartjoy frag and smartbox2 are indeed different manufacturers, the case although similar has different ridges and the smartbox looks to have 7 screws holding it together opposed to the frags 4, hard to see properly so rablack97 and degenatron would have to confirm this.
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Arghh! I chased up my order with that ebay seller (gametimevault) and he said that he is not able to post them out. He has made 4 attempts and the parcel keep coming back to him!!
He just cancelled my order and gave me a refund.
I'm quite keen to test out rablack's findings re: the unsupported spoof on v1.1 model.
It appears that I have a cheap 3rd party smartjoy model.
The hack (as documented) should work perfectly well on both models, but the v1.1 will need a connected mouse - at least for the moment.
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Johnm you are correct i have 4 screws.
Ok here is where we stand.
Pros : I wired up the entire matrix to buttons and jstik last night and success, and everything works great.
Cons :
- Spoof does not work
- v1.1 is not as mouse friendly smartbox version super finicky
- Exit function failed, tried a few scenarios, locked up, interested in your diode suggestion
Degenetron, I'll help you get smartjoy if interested. I need some pcb lacquer that's only available in the U.K. send me an email and we can work something out.
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I had a quick look to see what i could source in the UK for smart-thingy's...and I found yet another model....
This is called "The Ultimate Converter" by HAMA
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PS-2-PS2-Adapter-CONVERTER-Microsoft-XBOX-PC-MOUSE-KEYBOARD-FPS-NEW-Hama-/220895714074?pt=UK_Video_Games_Cables_and_Adaptors&hash=item336e691b1a#ht_1605wt_1396 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PS-2-PS2-Adapter-CONVERTER-Microsoft-XBOX-PC-MOUSE-KEYBOARD-FPS-NEW-Hama-/220895714074?pt=UK_Video_Games_Cables_and_Adaptors&hash=item336e691b1a#ht_1605wt_1396)
Other 2 models are:
The smartbox II (looks exactly like what I have):
http://www.xettmultimedia.co.uk/products/xbox.php (http://www.xettmultimedia.co.uk/products/xbox.php)
and the Smartjoy Frag (the real mccoy):
http://www.amazon.com/Smartjoy-Frag-Keyboard-Mouse-Adapter-Xbox/dp/B0009VLUF4 (http://www.amazon.com/Smartjoy-Frag-Keyboard-Mouse-Adapter-Xbox/dp/B0009VLUF4)
I will order the HAMA thing and take a look at that.
rablack, I will email you re: obtaining the smartjoys from the US seller. Great if you can help.
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Another potential supplier for bulk orders of the smartbox II (this is the known working one)...
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/242616161/Smart_Box_II_for_XBOX.html (http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/242616161/Smart_Box_II_for_XBOX.html)
Minimum order of 50 but says on the listing that they can produce 5000 per day!
I messaged for a price
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I had a quick look to see what i could source in the UK for smart-thingy's...and I found yet another model....
This is called "The Ultimate Converter" by HAMA
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PS-2-PS2-Adapter-CONVERTER-Microsoft-XBOX-PC-MOUSE-KEYBOARD-FPS-NEW-Hama-/220895714074?pt=UK_Video_Games_Cables_and_Adaptors&hash=item336e691b1a#ht_1605wt_1396 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PS-2-PS2-Adapter-CONVERTER-Microsoft-XBOX-PC-MOUSE-KEYBOARD-FPS-NEW-Hama-/220895714074?pt=UK_Video_Games_Cables_and_Adaptors&hash=item336e691b1a#ht_1605wt_1396)
Other 2 models are:
The smartbox II (looks exactly like what I have):
http://www.xettmultimedia.co.uk/products/xbox.php (http://www.xettmultimedia.co.uk/products/xbox.php)
and the Smartjoy Frag (the real mccoy):
http://www.amazon.com/Smartjoy-Frag-Keyboard-Mouse-Adapter-Xbox/dp/B0009VLUF4 (http://www.amazon.com/Smartjoy-Frag-Keyboard-Mouse-Adapter-Xbox/dp/B0009VLUF4)
I will order the HAMA thing and take a look at that.
rablack, I will email you re: obtaining the smartjoys from the US seller. Great if you can help.
I bought the HAMA adapter and I think it is a far better looking product than the smartJoy. Instructions says you can map directly from the keyboard to the Xbox controller which sounds interesting. I have a USB setup and just gave away all my PS/2 keyboards, so I have to wait for the converters in the post. I'll tinker with it tonight and let you know if it is worth hacking up.
Thanks for the link. :applaud:
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I guess the vendor has more than what he was letting on to, i thought these were about to be extinct....I just checked the HAMA link and it says more than 10 available.
Degenetron, did the spoof work with the HAMA?
I ordered my caps and resistors for the other project, got them all for around 10.00 for packs of 50 100 and 25...so not bad...
The terminals should be in next week....so i just about have all i need to get going.....good to see will have multiple options
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Hey ark_ader, I beat you to it. I got my HAMA thing, and had it in bits about 10 minutes after it arrived :) ...
It uses a different chip to the smartjoys so it is not a derivative, it is a different design, it uses atmel chip instead of cypress. I think it has a lot better build quality and there are LED's and complex circuitry.
I connected it up and it worked straight away with my PS/2 keyboard as input. The key mappings are different to the smartjoy but that doesnt really matter.
A significant difference is that this device has key mappings for left and right sticks and for mouse/trackball input the analog is true analog i.e. it has multiple values, rather than just on/off like the smartjoy.
I haven't done an encoder hack on this yet, but I took some pics.
If you are going to do a hack you will need to check for blocking when using multiple inputs. It uses different keymappings to the smartjoy and I havent checked these out or tested yet. I think I can get around any blocking issues by adding diodes but not tested this yet.
It's not the easiest box to open, you need to remove 4 screws and then pull off the green plastic clips from either side. Squeeze these tight and pull out.
You can remove the HAMA logo at the top to provide exit hole for wiring. No reason to remove the memory card slot on this one.
Here are some pics...
(https://sites.google.com/site/degenatrons/controller-interfaces/xbox-gamepad-encoder-mkii/hama_ultimate_encoder.jpg)
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I guess the vendor has more than what he was letting on to, i thought these were about to be extinct....I just checked the HAMA link and it says more than 10 available.
Degenetron, did the spoof work with the HAMA?
Vendor had 10 left, I spoke to them earlier in the week. They will have 9 now after arkader placed his order. These HAMA things are going to be extinct soon. I couldn't find any other suppliers.
I haven't hacked it yet. These devices shouldn't need a mouse plugged and this looks like good build quality, so my guess is that this will just work.
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I guess the vendor has more than what he was letting on to, i thought these were about to be extinct....I just checked the HAMA link and it says more than 10 available.
Degenetron, did the spoof work with the HAMA?
Vendor had 10 left, I spoke to them earlier in the week. They will have 9 now after arkader placed his order. These HAMA things are going to be extinct soon. I couldn't find any other suppliers.
I haven't hacked it yet. These devices shouldn't need a mouse plugged and this looks like good build quality, so my guess is that this will just work.
Probably 6 now I have just bought another. ;D
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Not trying to be rude here, but how is buying a keyboard adapter (SmartJoy) and then a keyboard encoder that all has to be hacked together preferable to hacking an actual Xbox controller?
I've been wondering the same thing but didn't want to say it, lol.
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Not trying to be rude here, but how is buying a keyboard adapter (SmartJoy) and then a keyboard encoder that all has to be hacked together preferable to hacking an actual Xbox controller?
I've been wondering the same thing but didn't want to say it, lol.
LOL. I have been wondering the same thing too.
I could get the smartjoy things for £2 and encoder chip for £1 so thought it would be a good cheap basis for a hack.
It still needs some work, and at the moment I can see where you are coming from with that question. For me, I just got tired of pad hacks and wanted to try something different, plus I learned a bit about what makes these devices tick and this will help when I revisit an AVR solution for xbox.
Benefits IMO:
Cheap
Super easy to solder to legs on IC chip
Could be adapted to be entirely solderless and potential to make a PCB to simplify build - rablack is looking at this.
supports PS/2 and USB trackball
It is still early days.
Hopefully this will develop and improve some, or something better will come out of this process.
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Its a viscious cirlce, why hack a xbox pad when you can buy a fight stick?
Xbox pad hacks started because it was cheaper to take what you already have and mod it. Pad hacking is not that easy to everyone, hence the reason folks outsource it to those who know how.
There's no rhyme or reason to doing this, as degentron said, its cool and a learning experience. At this point it takes less than $6.00 bucks to get one of these up and running....and the end result will have terminals to connect to instead of just random wires. It also cuts out having to ground loop all your buttons.
So theres pros and cons either way......the concept was to give folks other options and say hey i built that.....really it's just for the fun of it....
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Absolutely none at all.......... :dunno
Keep being that guy man....you crack me up.......you bring alot of stuff to the light......
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Not trying to be rude here, but how is buying a keyboard adapter (SmartJoy) and then a keyboard encoder that all has to be hacked together preferable to hacking an actual Xbox controller?
I've been wondering the same thing but didn't want to say it, lol.
When I solder I burn everything with the iron, especially my fingers. :o
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Worked on the PCB this weekend.....
This board was done from scratch......I etched and added the parts and soldered everything and this is the end result.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=187163;image)
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=187157;image)
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=187159;image)
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=187161;image)
I connected and it works to an extent....Something is blocking UP, DOWN, and RIGHT. Left and all other button work like a charm......
I'm still troubleshooting the board to see if i can find the issue, i breadboarded the setup and all worked fine but i think the traces on the PCB dont mimic the breadboard setup.
This is still a WIP, i have some spacing issues on the terminal blocks, and i'm gonna have to order a few 4 hole terminla blocks, so it evens out at the end.
Not bad for a beginner!!!!
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Awesome work on this rablack :applaud:
If you have some inputs working then we can safely say that the PS/2 lines and components are connected up right. The problem must be incorrect wiring/traces between IC and terminal, or there could be a short.
Have a real close look at your soldering to see if you can see any shorts. I can't see enough detail on these pics to help with that.
Do you get any inputs when you plug in the device without connecting terminals/bridging pins ?
Also, try bridging the up, down and right pins on the IC legs with a piece of wire. If this works, then you know it is a fault with the traces.
Nice job for a first attempt. Well done mate.
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I think theres a blocking issue somewhere....i check continuity from the block to the IC leg it gives me tone for each connection.
The board with no pins doesn't show any button presses when plugged up alone.
I'll double check again this evening........
Also, need some feeback....
Should we stay with the PS/2 input header or just wired a cord directly to the pcb......with the header you would need a male to male cord. The other way you could take a male to male cord, chop it in 2 pieces and make 2 pcbs out of one cord and plug it into a pin header on the board......
I've orderd some 6 prong headers to see how it looks.....but just wanted some more insight on what would be best....
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I think theres a blocking issue somewhere....i check continuity from the block to the IC leg it gives me tone for each connection.
The board with no pins doesn't show any button presses when plugged up alone.
I'll double check again this evening........
Also, need some feeback....
Should we stay with the PS/2 input header or just wired a cord directly to the pcb......with the header you would need a male to male cord. The other way you could take a male to male cord, chop it in 2 pieces and make 2 pcbs out of one cord and plug it into a pin header on the board......
I've orderd some 6 prong headers to see how it looks.....but just wanted some more insight on what would be best....
I like headers for PS/2 connection on the board itself. You would only need 4 way header as 2 PS/2 lines are unused.
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I like headers for PS/2 connection on the board itself. You would only need 4 way header as 2 PS/2 lines are unused.
[/quote]
I have this thing about chopping wire and leaving the little nubs of exposed wire. I ordered 6 to keep it clean, the 2 unused just wont have traces...
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Woohoo success!!!!!!!!
The board is fully functional all buttons work.......
I forgot i had reprogrammed some of the settings trying to get the start+back function to work.
I hit F1 to change back to my normal settings and the missing functions all worked........
Also I nixed the start+back all in one button....I figured i would just have start and back next to each other on the front of the CP with instructions to press simultaneously to exit the current game.
My next quest is to fix the terminal spacing so they are side by side, rearrange a few things and mount the smartjoy on the underside of the pcb, add room for the mouse encoder and resistors, solder everything internally. End result should be, 1 unit no ps/2 cords to hack up and 1 cord directly to the xbox and terminals to connect too....
Recieved my encoder resistors today, waiting on the mouse encoders to breadboard and test.......
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..how much?
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It's still a WIP, there are different variations of the board that can be fabricated.
The simple version requires you to use Degentrons matrix to wire up your buttons so it will look like a rats nest but it works.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=186633;image)
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=187163;image)
The version above, the rats nest is the traces and all you do is wire according to the legend embedded on the board, no matrix needed.
As far as price, hadn't really thought about it, Degentron stated the xbox encoders are dying out which is why he's concentrating on the DIY keyboard encoder for MAME, so this was a for fun project.
If there is a small demand for it, could probably do kits and or fully assembled units once its complete.
As far as price I'd have to consult with Degenetrons, this was his idea and I just ran with it......Although if you've kept up with his other threads he's all about creating things and making things available to other hobbyists well below the cost of the major manuf's.....
I'll be posting more updates as it comes along...
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I'd pay $20. Well it would be safer..
I just managed to take the top of my thumb off cutting my cab bezel. Funny thing is I did the same damn thing to my other thumb a couple of months ago. I'm still getting laughs from that.
I'm not sure what danger I am to myself if I turned on the soldering iron or etched a board.......... :laugh2:
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I'd pay $20. Well it would be safer..
I just managed to take the top of my thumb off cutting my cab bezel. Funny thing is I did the same damn thing to my other thumb a couple of months ago. I'm still getting laughs from that.
I'm not sure what danger I am to myself if I turned on the soldering iron or etched a board.......... :laugh2:
Ha Ha, so you'll need one without thumb buttons :laugh2:
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It's still a WIP, there are different variations of the board that can be fabricated.
The simple version requires you to use Degentrons matrix to wire up your buttons so it will look like a rats nest but it works.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=186633;image)
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=187163;image)
The version above, the rats nest is the traces and all you do is wire according to the legend embedded on the board, no matrix needed.
As far as price, hadn't really thought about it, Degentron stated the xbox encoders are dying out which is why he's concentrating on the DIY keyboard encoder for MAME, so this was a for fun project.
If there is a small demand for it, could probably do kits and or fully assembled units once its complete.
As far as price I'd have to consult with Degenetrons, this was his idea and I just ran with it......Although if you've kept up with his other threads he's all about creating things and making things available to other hobbyists well below the cost of the major manuf's.....
I'll be posting more updates as it comes along...
Glad that you figured out the blocking issue rablack :). I remember you saying that you had reprogrammed F1 to use my matrix. I assume that this will now boot up as the default for you after the change - I don't have your version of smartjoy to test. Hopefully it will come soon along with a load of other stuff i'm waiting on.
I'm cool if you want to make these up to sell. You done a pretty good job on these and it will help to aid the self harmers out there - although for some it will come a little too late :)
If you're willing, then I would like to add schematics for your PCB to my site for download on the resources page, but I know you still got some work to do with that.
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Right, so like $20 or what?
Shoot, I forgot you were following this thread. I'm sure you frustrated by my answer.
I just wanted to get approval from the innovator first.
Ok, I'm throwing this out as this thing has alot of options...
I would say no more than $30.00 but that's for the full blown assembled unit, im working on now. Which is one cord to XboX. No plugging into the smartjoy or having to add a mouse.
The simple version can be sold as kits for around $10.00 bucks and assembled for $15.00, and thats, pcb plugs into smartjoy smartjoy plugs into xbox.
It's still a WIP, there are different variations of the board that can be fabricated.
The simple version requires you to use Degentrons matrix to wire up your buttons so it will look like a rats nest but it works.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=186633;image)
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=187163;image)
The version above, the rats nest is the traces and all you do is wire according to the legend embedded on the board, no matrix needed.
As far as price, hadn't really thought about it, Degentron stated the xbox encoders are dying out which is why he's concentrating on the DIY keyboard encoder for MAME, so this was a for fun project.
If there is a small demand for it, could probably do kits and or fully assembled units once its complete.
As far as price I'd have to consult with Degenetrons, this was his idea and I just ran with it......Although if you've kept up with his other threads he's all about creating things and making things available to other hobbyists well below the cost of the major manuf's.....
I'll be posting more updates as it comes along...
Glad that you figured out the blocking issue rablack :). I remember you saying that you had reprogrammed F1 to use my matrix. I assume that this will now boot up as the default for you after the change - I don't have your version of smartjoy to test. Hopefully it will come soon along with a load of other stuff i'm waiting on.
I'm cool if you want to make these up to sell. You done a pretty good job on these and it will help to aid the self harmers out there - although for some it will come a little too late :)
If you're willing, then I would like to add schematics for your PCB to my site for download on the resources page, but I know you still got some work to do with that.
Sure just let me know what you need and its yours man...Yeah i'm gonna do some more testing to make sure being unplugged kicks it back into default mode.
These are ballpark figures guys, input for fair price points are welcome.
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There once was a man named James
That liked to play video games.
He played with his thumbs
and then with his gums
and now he's toothless and maimed.
Awesome! You should have that printed on t-shirts. Got any more pearls?
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I like the $15 version, and my poor thumbs should be OK by then. :lol
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Ugh, tore down the smartjoy........removed the memory pins and the PS/2 ports(those were a beotch to remove).....
wired leads to the pads and now the darn thing doesn't work anymore........everything traces back to the chips onboard the smartjoy and the hot, clock, data and ground but something was removed that the smartjoy did approve of..... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
These finicky smartjoys and this mouse compatability is making those smartboxes look more appealing......dunnno maybe degentron and sharpfork can figure something out that I missed on these things.
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More progress today. I found a guy that resells computer and electronic stuff. Goldmine in hiding....
He has a pallett load of ps/2 mouse roller ball, .75 cents a piece, gonna try to get them for .50 cents on the next go round(great for testing)...Bought a overhead projector for 5 buck to help with lining up the circuits for the PCB's.
I tore down the smart joy, pulled the ps/2 plugs and the dismanted a few of the mice. So far so good no plugs needed, i've found all the traces needed to solder each component together. The PCB board works perfectly with the setup with no cords.....so it's progress to a one cord unit....
I have some mouse encoders on the way, so eventually the mouse circuit board will be nonexistant. The Mouse IC will be embedded in the PCB with traces back to the smart joy and connected via headers.
I plan on spacing the board out a bit more the so the encoder and smart joy can fit in the center of the keyboar encoder via standoffs...The ps/2 on the keyboard ecoder will eventually be removed as well, there for testing purposes now.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=187325;image)
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I thought ark_ader mentioned a few that worked earlier in the thread....
I've never hacked a mouse before to a trackball, and i dont have a spare one to even test it out on coinops... :(
The ones i have are HP compaq models.....
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Has anyone tried a mouse or trackball with one of these things in CoinOPs?
I tried my xArcade and sparkfun ps2 trackballs and can't get anyhting playable in coinops. I only tried for about 45 minutes with the default Joyfrag settings. I have the same model as rablack97. If someone else has evlautated this, I'd prefer not to avoid :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
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The smartbox/smartjoy maps the ps/2 mouse input to the left or right analog stick. I have tested in the gamepad test tool and this works for me with all PS/2 and USB mice that I have tried - except for a really cheaply made mini mouse I bought from a pound store.
You can see me test with 2 mouse devices in the video.
If CoinOps is looking for a connected mouse then it will not find it. This is mapping input to analog sticks.
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Cool Update....
I ordered mouse encoders and they will be in this week...In the meantime I got bored waiting, and started pulling the cheap .75 cents mouse circuit boards apart.
I followed the traces and pulled all the needed caps and resistors from the board and put it all back together on the bread board and I'll be damned if it didn't work.....woohoo
I've already redesigned to PCB to contain the smartjoy board with one cord total in the unit to plug into the xbox...So hopefully i'll have a fully operational board in the next few days.. :cheers:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=187478;image)
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Thanks for the update rablack.
Your smartjoy arrived and I did some testing and...it just won't have it. Blasted thing. This version needs a real mouse connected.
The smartjoy expects acknowledgement back that something is plugged in the mouse port. This is proper PS/2 protocol implementation.
The cheapo version of the encoder (smartbox) which I used can be spoofed because it is not built to the same standard and obviously cut some corners.
If you build your PCB around the smartbox, it would save you the trouble of adding the mouse encoder chip and circuit.
but, having said that, it is still great to see that you have worked around the problem. Nice job :)
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Did you hear anything back from that vendor in regards to costs for the Smartboxes. Things would be easier if I could use the spoof.
If not, I guess availability and price of the smartjoy vs. the smartbox will be a factor. Now that I know I can use the endocders from the junk mice, the spoof isnt that big of an issue. My junk guy has a whole box of those things, and the getting the pieces of the board doesnt take long.
I'm gonna be etching and soldering tonight......So we will see what happens....
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Your smartjoy arrived and I did some testing and...it just won't have it. Blasted thing. This version needs a real mouse connected...
I have the same version as rablack97. I might just focus on seeing if I can use the thing to get decent, predictable trackball working in coinops then look at whatever you guys come up with.
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Ok fellas,
Finally done....few minor tweaks to the structure and trace placement....But the prototype is operational....woohoo....
All in one smartjoy mod encoder.
This thing is fun to build. This version has the ps/2 inputs removed, I'm thinking about leaving them on and adding a dip switch to shut down the onboard keyboard encoder, so that you can modify your smartjoy inputs via a keyboard if need be. Although it works perfect with Degentrons matrix as is.
Comments are welcome!!!
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=187692;image)
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=187694;image)
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=187696;image)
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Great stuff Rablack:D You did a really good job of adapting the hack to a PCB and have overcome some big technical issues. Well done and kudos for seeing this through to completion.
Time for some play testing
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RIP smartjoy hack.
The mother of all encoders is on the way...
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,122023.msg1296749.html#msg1296749 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,122023.msg1296749.html#msg1296749)
(https://sites.google.com/site/degenatrons/other-stuff/wip/KADE.jpg)