The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Woodworking => Topic started by: walterg74 on March 03, 2012, 06:11:10 pm
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Hi everyone!
So here I am again trying to dive into the adventure of building my cabinet...
One of the challenges I have, not living in the US is that our options are limited....
I really want to have one, and basically the options here are:
1) pay a guy to do the whole thing for you, as they are selling finished cabinets with everything, but yeah, for about 1000 dollars... This I don't like because I'm a woodworking noob, but not a comuter noob and I am very capable of doing it myself. ---daisies--- won't sell just the finished cabinet though...
2) build the cabinet, coming to:
2a) buy a used cabinet: this has it's own challenges, as there seems to be almost no place to get a good caninet htat's not damaged somewhere, and fixing it well, I dn't know where to start...
2b) building it: i'm a woodworking ignorant....
So... If I want to go to 2b, and start etting into woodworking, what are the basics? There's a lot of info around here, but all scattered, and there doesn't seem to be a "build your cabinet 101" around... I don't want any guide on how "xxx" built his cabinet, there are a lot of those around, but it doesn't really help as it's not a guide about what you should do and how... So basically I'd appreciate any experts or knowledgeable folks weighing in on:
- Wood: from reading around, MDF seems to be the most popular choice. Objections? What is the ideal thicknes of this wood for a cabinet and why? Any other type/thickness of woods for other parts of the cabinet?
- Tools: also from reading around, general concensus for a decent set of tools is: drill, jigsaw, router, sander, clamps. Anything else IMPORTANT, or can I do fine to build my first cabinet with these? The router.. Do I use it for cutting holes in the back, and for that "trench" along the front and top for the moulding? For anything else as well?
- Cutting: so you need to copy the plans to the wood, with the exact measures, and then it's best to cut them with _____?
- Assembling: once I have all the nice parts, how do I put everything tightly together? Nails? Screws? Pegs and glue?
- Finishing: so I put everything togeter, it's assembled, just the mdf sheet there as it comes... How do I finish it? Can I just go ahead and paste the plotted artwork I order to it? Do I have to do *something* to it? Should I sand it? Apply primer? Paint it? (and with what types of paint).
- Control panel: Wood or Steel/Metal? Pros/Cons?
- Acrylic/Plexiglass for bezels/marquees/control panel overlays: what to cut them with? Considerations?
- Other considerations: what else is important to consider?
This would be like a "Cabinet Building 101" type of guide, with instructions for buildingg your cainet, but without basing it on any specific design, just the general process which each one can apply to whatever plan they want to go by.
Thanks!!!
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Have you seen Saint's book?
http://www.amazon.com/Project-Arcade-Build-Your-Machine/dp/0764556169 (http://www.amazon.com/Project-Arcade-Build-Your-Machine/dp/0764556169)
A lot of these questions would be answered in there.
Check out the Wiki on this site. There's good info there.
Check out the Woodworking forum for all sorts of tool recs.
But the main thing is this: Being relatively new to woodworking, I'd say just jump in, and start building a basic 2 player cab. Grab some plans for a design you like, cut up some sheet MDF or ply and just jump in. Do it cheap (or not just depends on you budget), but expect to either
1) Decide it's a royal pain, and end up tossing what you built. But you didn't spend a lot on it, so no big deal.
2) Push through till you have a functioning cab, by which point you'll have discovered all the things that you thought you'd like about the design/controls/front end/etc, but in the end don't, and all the things that you thought you could cheap out on, but realized you shouldn't have.
and by then, you won't be much of a noob anymore either, you'll have a decent set of controls (plus a CPU most likely) you can scavenge and use in the next cab you build, probably a good set of tools, and lots of bookmarks in your browser :) for reference.
And most important, you'll have learned to come up with all sorts of creative solutions for correcting all your screwups ;)
But I wouldn't know anything about that...
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drventure gives great advice.
Just jump in if you are interested. If you pay attention to safety and use your tools properly you will be able to build a nice looking cabinet even on your first try.
IMO, if you only buy one tool, you should get a router for sure and an assortment of bits. It is really the only tool you need to build a cabinet other than maybe a drill (corded) and a sanding block but those are relatively cheap. A router will allow you to cut straight lines, cut the slot for the t-molding, make panel copies, drill holes, etc. It is so versatile.
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+1 on the router comment by Javeryh
As for tools, I'd also throw in
Circular saw
Power drill with screwdriver bits too so it doubles as a power screwdriver
a work table of some sort, or two ( I really like the black and decker WorkMate tables because they fold down easily, but you might not have them where you are).
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Ok, so you got me convinced.. Lol
Would you recommend the circular saw over a jigsaw? I had a feeling the jigsaw was easier to use and follow the pencil lines for my cuts, but hey I'm a total noob, so what's best?
I do have to pijt out the following: I DO already have an arade cainet that I bought from someone (a used one from arcade handdowns), but:
O the sides of the control panel, and on the top left, he wood is broken and I have no idea how to fix it :(
Would you recommend I give the fix a try? And if so, with what materials?? As a separate notes, the sides have melamine.
I think I still have the pictures I took of it if it helps to get advice.
Edit: ok i found the pics and they're actually in a post I made myself right here almost TWO YEARS ago! Man did I give up easy on that....
Here is the link so you can see the state of the cabinet:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=100812 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=100812)
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The damage to the cab isn't that serious. You should be able to remove all of the T-molding and use a combination of wood and bondo to repair the edges. The laminate sides are a whole other beast. If it were me I would remove them. MEK and a good scraper should do it.
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Thanks sparkolicious!
I actually did remove the t-moldings already. Then I just stood there looking at the damaged edge for an hour or two... :)
So should I try using bondo (or whatever similar thing I find in my country) and sort of "shape it" with my hands or something to try to get the missing/original form bak?
Aout the laminate, what would I gain by removing it? Since I'll be p utting artwork on it later (and I want a black background) shouldn't I just take advantage hat it's nice and smotth and leave it? Sorry if it's a stupid question...
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Jigsaws are handy for some cutting tasks but for what you're likely to do while building a cab, they aren't much use.
Plus it's VERY difficult to get a straight line by hand with a jig, and even if you use a guide, the blade deflection typically means that to get a good straight edge, you'll need to go back over it with a router.
Short answer, the Circular saw will be more more useful.
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As said before in this thread Saint's book is a great place for you to start. Not only does it answer most of your questions here but it also includes plans for a cabinet on the accompanying CD.
As far as tools go if I was to list the most important tools needed IMO to build a cab it would be:
- Drill
- Circular Saw
- Router
- Sanding Block
After that there are lots of tools that you can use here and there but none are as important as those three. Jig saws work well for small sections but when it comes to long cuts they are very inaccurate like Drventure stated.
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So how do you do the curved sections then? Because I imagine the circular saw is no good for that... ???
I guess the only thing I can't find here is the guts to lose the fear of screwing up and to hae wasted time and moey on all the tools and materials for nothing... ;D
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Well, worst case is you screw up some plywood or MDF.
It's pretty unlikely you'll actually mess up any tools, so once you have them, they're good for any number of other projects.
As for cutting curves, true enough, if you're looking to do a curved control panel, a jigsaw might be handy. You can use a circular saw to make several cuts and get "close" to the curve, then sand from there, but that might be more work.
However, lots of have mostly straight edges. Maybe alittle rounded corners but that's pretty easy to do with a rasp and sanding block.
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So how do you do the curved sections then? Because I imagine the circular saw is no good for that... ???
I guess the only thing I can't find here is the guts to lose the fear of screwing up and to hae wasted time and moey on all the tools and materials for nothing... ;D
A Jig Saw is perfect for that but the idea is that a jig saw is more for specific use cases versus the whole build. If you keep building cabs a Jig saw is a welcome addition to your tools.
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I used a cheap 30 dollar black and decker jigsaw to get me close to the line, then I used a power orbital sander to get me right up the the line, worked awesome!
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Well I would replace the laminate because it is damaged. In fact, judging from the photos it is really damaged! There's not much you can do to repair it, and regardless of whether you intend to put some artwork on it or not you'll want a nice, clean, flat surface to work with. It isn't a difficult task, but time consuming and messy. You will need to replace the laminate as well.
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So here's another (probably stupid) question....
To get the actual design of the pieces on the wood, do you any type of system/printout, or is it just a matter of drawing the shape by hand as best you can respecting measurements and angles..? (and for this last part would you like use a really big protractor or what? :) )
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I mapped out the points of the corners on mine(kinda like x,y coordinates), then drew my lines between them, ala connect the dots, then I drew in my radiuses (if they apply).
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So here's another (probably stupid) question....
To get the actual design of the pieces on the wood, do you any type of system/printout, or is it just a matter of drawing the shape by hand as best you can respecting measurements and angles..? (and for this last part would you like use a really big protractor or what? :) )
Are you talking like Buttons and Joysticks? There are a bunch of templates that can be printed to size and then taped to your CP. Typically I print them, tape them to the CP and then use a hammer and nail on the center point of each for a lead for the Drill Press. Works very well.
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So here's another (probably stupid) question....
To get the actual design of the pieces on the wood, do you any type of system/printout, or is it just a matter of drawing the shape by hand as best you can respecting measurements and angles..? (and for this last part would you like use a really big protractor or what? :) )
Are you talking like Buttons and Joysticks? There are a bunch of templates that can be printed to size and then taped to your CP. Typically I print them, tape them to the CP and then use a hammer and nail on the center point of each for a lead for the Drill Press. Works very well.
No, that I figured I could manage to print out. I meant the wood panels themselves. I get a feeling I'm gonna draw them and the shape's gonna come out crazy...
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No, that I figured I could manage to print out. I meant the wood panels themselves. I get a feeling I'm gonna draw them and the shape's gonna come out crazy...
I have not a clue what you're asking. My apologies if I'm missing something.
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+1 on Saint's book.
If you're a woodworking noob and having a nice cab ASAP is the priority, then just buy a prebuilt kit to assemble.
If you have some woodworking skills and want the pleasure of taking your time, effort and reward of accomplishing something great, then try to build one yourself. It also helps if you have a fair amount of tools, definitely a hand held router.
I personally found the woodworking part of my project the most rewarding because I enjoy working with my hands. You just need to decide where you get the most satisfaction and what your realistic skills are.
In terms of building, I used a large sheet of cardboard for my mock up. Building your own cab is nice because you can adjust any measurement you wish, however it's also the "kiss of death" because you need to account for how everything will fit together, (monitor bezel, monitor clearance, speaker panel, access panels, keyboard tray, etc.) I used cardboard so I could physically stand at the piece and see how the height felt, how the CP angle would be on my wrist, etc. I think where most noobs get hung up is in understanding how to not worry about the final picture so much. As issues arise, you need to be able to adapt your measurements and adjust things to make them fit. Very few people who build for the first time have a complete overview of every measurement BEFORE they build. Unless you have plans to work off of with everything drawn, think of this as a PROCESS to make things work. When you get stuck, that is where the forum helps you out. :cheers:
For producing smooth curves and such here is how I did it: I used a jig saw to make a rough curve template the best I could. I then shaped the curve with a file and smoothed with sandpaper. When you go to cut your final piece out, you trace it exactly on the piece with a straight edge and compass, then attach the template stock to the piece with some clamps. You then use a flush cut router bit with a bearing on the end that rides on the template. The cutting tool will produce a sharp smooth edge as the bearing follows the template. The template need not be super smooth, because the radius of the router bearing rolls over some minor imperfections.
It's a lot of work, but that's how I did it. Having a template for all your curves is more work up front, but you only need to do this once. The second cab goes faster!
Here's an example: Shaping Parts Using a Template Sled.mp4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe3pw5dlw_M#)
The guy actually made it like a "sled" and uses a table, but you can see how the bearing rides on the template piece and the "real" piece is cut with the template bit. I did this with just having my piece anchored to a workbench and clamping my template in the curved regions. You can stop once the curve is cut, just be sure to line up the next cut when you come in. This can also be achieved on straght sections with a straight piece of stock. If you do this all around your piece, you'll have a professional looking sharp edge. Whatever you do, do NOT file or sand two misaligned router cuts on the final piece. Take your time and line it up with the blade from the previous cut so you only have to cut once. If you misalign the cut, re-measure and shave it down with the router bit. This produces the best edge for the t-molding later on.
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No, that I figured I could manage to print out. I meant the wood panels themselves. I get a feeling I'm gonna draw them and the shape's gonna come out crazy...
I have not a clue what you're asking. My apologies if I'm missing something.
The big ass main panels that make up the cabinet.l. :)
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Don't let curves throw you... they aren't as hard as they seem at first.
You can create a template and then use a flush trim bit like other will mention, but large curves are tricky to get smooth by hand (at least for me :)). If I could shape a large curve to create the template... then I wouldn't need the template. Shaping smaller curves is much easier.
If you need a larger curve, like the Taito cabs, or the top of a Galaga cab, then I would suggest a shop made circle cutting jig. Your router attaches to one end, and you screw a pivot some distance away to define the center of your arc. The one I used to create the master for my build was just a piece of scrap. It cut 3 significant curves on my son's cab (8" radius - 40" radius) that were very clean arcs. For the other curves (rounded corners) I used a template that I shaped with a file after tracing a quarter... or something like that.
Anyhow, there are about a ton of how-to info on the web for tricks you can do with a router. Just search for how to cut arcs with a router... and you'll get more than you need.
Good Luck! :cheers:
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Hey guys,
Thanks for all your great replies/comments/suggestions.
I think I've decided to take the folllowing approach from my "noobiness"...:
I would need to get all the tools for I have none, and I don't know the results I'll get. So since the essential to start is to actually start cutting the wood, I'm gonna go ahead and buy the wood and the circular saw only. Once i go ahead and cut out all the pieces, if that went well and I actually did get the hang of of it, the following week (weeks?) I'll go ahead and buy the rest of the tools to continue the project. Trying to think about it like a process as others said, and going step by step....
Regarding the wood, since they have different names here, can you confirm if this is:
Particle (which i don't want): http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-140139788-recortes-o-placa-entera-aglomerado-10mm-15mm-18mm-25mm-30mm-_JM (http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-140139788-recortes-o-placa-entera-aglomerado-10mm-15mm-18mm-25mm-30mm-_JM)
Plywood: http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-143315704-fenolico-grandis-18-mm-industrial-122x244-encofrados-_JM (http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-143315704-fenolico-grandis-18-mm-industrial-122x244-encofrados-_JM)
Mdf (title says on this one but just in case): http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-144532966-placa-mdf-fibrofacil-18mm-183-x-260-mts-masisa-trupan-_JM (http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-144532966-placa-mdf-fibrofacil-18mm-183-x-260-mts-masisa-trupan-_JM)
Is plywod cheaper there too? I thought it was the other way around. Or maybe because the plate sizes are different... And that's another thing... While the "plywood" plaques are the same size as the american 8' x 4' if you do the conversion to metric, the MDF ones are a little bigger, with a size of 183 cm x 260 cm (roughly 8.5' x 6') althoughnthis may be an advantage to needing less wood? (depends on the plan/design I suppose).
One last thing is the thickness.... I've seen recommendations of using 5/8" and 3/4", which is respectively in metric 15.875 mm and 19.05 mm, and the thing is we don't get those widths here... The offer (as you can see from the links above) is for 15mm and 18mm plaques ( and others higer and lower than that), so that being the case, which woud you recommend and why? What would the minnimum be so it's not that heavy but sturdy enough to hold everything and not fall down on me or be all wobbly..?
Thanks!
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Your pics look correct as to what is "plywood", "particleboard", and "MDF".
As to 5/8 or 3/4, maybe someone else will correct me but I'm pretty sure you typically use 5/8 for a control panel if you plan on putting a clear arcylic overlay on it. that way, when you put on the T-mold (which is typically right at 3/4), the total thickness of the panel and acrylic will match the tmold.
If you used 3/4 for the panel, then added a layer of acrylic, the tmold wouldn't be thick enough to cover the entire edge.
But for the rest of the cabinet, typically 3/4 ply is used (3/4 MDF is REALLY heavy).
I know some people have used 5/8 ply for the cabinet to make it a little lighter. You just might have to look for the right size tmold to trim it out.
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Thickness of material also depends on a few other factors as well:
1) Are you going to use a CRT monitor or an LCD?
2) Are you laminating the sides? Painting? Veneers?
3) Is this an upright? cocktail?
Thicker isn't always better because the cab gets very heavy. The problem with going too small is you might need to add more supporting structure.
As drventure stated, most people shoot to have a finished thickness of 3/4". This is a standard T-molding size. So you can imagine if you are going to laminate it with 1/16" laminate on both sides, you'll need to start with thinner material.
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Good point, if you laminate the sides, you'd generally want to use the 5/8ths material.
Alternately, i know projects that have used the thicker material and then used a router to put a 45 degree bevel on one size so that the tmold fits flush.
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Right.. Well the problem is that as I stated in my above post, I don't have 5/8" or 3/4" plaques... Only 15mm and 18mm....
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No problems
If you go with something slightly thicker you can always use a router with a 45deg bevel bit to bevel theunderlying edge so that it meets up with whatever tmold you get.
Otherwise, you could go with a thinner stock, laminate, install tmold and if it's a little too wide, use a utility knife to trim off of the excess.
15mm= .59 inches.
5/8 inch = .625 inches
So 15mm should be just a hair thinner than the 5/8'th stuff.
18mm= .71 inches
3/4 in = .75 inches
so again, 18mm is just a hair thinner than 3/4
Soooo, if you use 3/4 tmold, in either case, you're likely to be trimming a little of the tmold, unless you laminate.
If you use 18mm ply, and laminate, that will likely end up being just over 3/4", so you'll like need to bevel the underside or else some of the ply will show.
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Here is a nice shot from Martijn's thread showing a flush example using 18mm MDF.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=112721.msg1197905#msg1197905 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=112721.msg1197905#msg1197905)
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Here is a nice shot from Martijn's thread showing a flush example using 18mm MDF.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=112721.msg1197905#msg1197905 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=112721.msg1197905#msg1197905)
Yep..that could come in handy....
Now one thing I didn't understand anout reading his SF cabinet thread....
He went an laminated, which looks really nice and I assume better than what you could get just painting (at least without painting infinte coats.. ;) ) but then he went ahead and applied sideart tomthe whole frikkin thing....
What exactly is the point of laminating to have it nice and perfect if you're gonna cover up the whole thing anyway..? ???
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Now one thing I didn't understand anout reading his SF cabinet thread....
He went an laminated, which looks really nice and I assume better than what you could get just painting (at least without painting infinte coats.. ;) ) but then he went ahead and applied sideart tomthe whole frikkin thing....
What exactly is the point of laminating to have it nice and perfect if you're gonna cover up the whole thing anyway..? ???
I don't know what Martijn's justification was, but I did the same thing for a couple of reasons:
1. I didn't trust the side art to stick to raw wood as well as it would the laminate, and I didn't want to prime and prep the surface to get better adhesion.
2. I used 1/2 inch plywood for my sides, and putting laminate on both sides brought the thickness of my sides to very near 5/8 inch (the size t-molding I was shooting for).
3. I'm somewhat obsessive, and it would have kept me up at night knowing only the inside of the cab was laminated! :cheers:
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1. I didn't trust the side art to stick to raw wood as well as it would the laminate, and I didn't want to prime and prep the surface to get better adhesion.
+1 If you don't want to paint then you absolutely should laminate before vinyl application for reliable adhesion. Bare wood to vinyl is a huge non starter.
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Ok, so after several weeks of searching... I have come to the sad conclusion that is seems I can't find laminate here in my country anywhere... they're either not importing it or whatever, but bottom line is I can't get it :(
So since I will have to paint, would you still recommend the ply? I would really like the finishing to be as smooth as possible, and don't want the wood patterns to show :-\
It would seem that mdf would be smoother and have a better painted finish, but then I think about the advice of plywood being lighter/better/whatever and don't know which one to choose :(
Also, what paint type would I need? Matte or Satinated finish? Is it special for wood or those deemed "for interiors" ???
Edit: I also see the possibility of (maybe) finding that pre-laminated plywood. Is that a good or bad idea? I can think of the prox of it being laminated and there already, but the cons, I don't know if it would break/chip when cutting/routing and that I guess you have draw out the pieces carefully so you don't have the "rough"/unlaminated sides where you don't want them..? (i.e. for the large side manel the back would ne to be laminated and not the front/top since it will have t-molding, etc.)
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Ok, so after several weeks of searching... I have come to the sad conclusion that is seems I can't find laminate here in my country anywhere... they're either not importing it or whatever, but bottom line is I can't get it
Really? Maybe it's not called "laminate", but something else. Does anywhere nearby sell home improvement type products (cabinetry, doors, flooring, etc).
Often times, in the US, home builders will use a brand called Formica laminate to lay down on kitchen countertops. It's far cheaper than tile or stone, and is much faster to install. And it'd fairly durable.
As far as painting goes, You could get ply to look quite good, but it'll take some work.
The main thing is, you'll have to first lay down a coat of filler to fill as many large imperfections as possible.
Let dry and sand, then start laying down coats of primer. Several people here have had really good results using automotive spray filler, basically like Bondo (the trade name here) or fiberglass resin, just in spray can form. You spray it, let dry, sand, then spray again as necessary.
Once you've got the grain filled, you sand progressively from 100grit, down to say 400-800 grit (or as far as you want to go).
Matte or Satin (or gloss for that matter) all depends on the look you're going for. Personally, I'd think a matte would look best, but that's just me.
Another possible option is some of the specialized spray paints that give a textured look. Not sure if that would be available where you are, but it's something you might look into as well.
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If I couldn't find laminate, then I'd make the side panes with MDF, and use wood, or ply for the stuff in between.
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Ok, so after several weeks of searching... I have come to the sad conclusion that is seems I can't find laminate here in my country anywhere... they're either not importing it or whatever, but bottom line is I can't get it
Really? Maybe it's not called "laminate", but something else. Does anywhere nearby sell home improvement type products (cabinetry, doors, flooring, etc).
Often times, in the US, home builders will use a brand called Formica laminate to lay down on kitchen countertops. It's far cheaper than tile or stone, and is much faster to install. And it'd fairly durable.
As far as painting goes, You could get ply to look quite good, but it'll take some work.
The main thing is, you'll have to first lay down a coat of filler to fill as many large imperfections as possible.
Let dry and sand, then start laying down coats of primer. Several people here have had really good results using automotive spray filler, basically like Bondo (the trade name here) or fiberglass resin, just in spray can form. You spray it, let dry, sand, then spray again as necessary.
Once you've got the grain filled, you sand progressively from 100grit, down to say 400-800 grit (or as far as you want to go).
Matte or Satin (or gloss for that matter) all depends on the look you're going for. Personally, I'd think a matte would look best, but that's just me.
Another possible option is some of the specialized spray paints that give a textured look. Not sure if that would be available where you are, but it's something you might look into as well.
Yeah, I-ve searched a number of terms, we normally have for that type of stuff just 1 chain, and I went yesterday and they don't carry that, and also lots of sellers use our local "ebay" (where I posted some links to wood before).
Another alternative I found, these guys sel plywood already laminated and on both sides:
http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-423543052-fenolico-plastificado-2-caras-negro-18mm-122-x-244-mts--_JM (http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-423543052-fenolico-plastificado-2-caras-negro-18mm-122-x-244-mts--_JM)
How does that look to you?
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If I couldn't find laminate, then I'd make the side panes with MDF, and use wood, or ply for the stuff in between.
That would be a good idea... Just curious though as some other parts (like the lower front?) owuld also need to be painted. But yeah, seems like a valid compromise :)
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If I couldn't find laminate, then I'd make the side panes with MDF, and use wood, or ply for the stuff in between.
That would be a good idea... Just curious though as some other parts (like the lower front?) owuld also need to be painted. But yeah, seems like a valid compromise :)
Yeah... I wasn't very clear. I meant I would use wood or ply for the structural connections between the panels, but the exterior surface panels could be MDF.
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So before I rush out to buy the wood, I gues sI have to decide exactly what cabinet I will build.. ::)
I can't really make up my mind about the design, although I think I want something classic, like this:
http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-421414873-arcades-multijuegos-video-juego-mame-fichin-flipper-_JM#questionText (http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-421414873-arcades-multijuegos-video-juego-mame-fichin-flipper-_JM#questionText)
There doesn't seem to be a dedicated forum here for plans, is there any place I can at least find a whole bunch of them to try to find one I like?
I already found the place with the best price for the wood, and since I definitely crossed out laminate since it seems it's not available at least for now in my country, it has to be MDF, although I looked at an 18 mm sheet today and got scared, while at the same time thought the 15 mm one looked a bit flimsy... (noob, huh? ::) )
A point in the right direction is welcome :cheers:
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Plans: jakobud.com
Back in like '04 or something the BYOAC'rs started consolidating cab plans and Jakobud pretty much saved the project, the day, and large parts of the hobby by researching, documenting, drawing, standardizing, and hosting. If there was a patron saint of cab plans his avatar would be a big pink cobra.
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Plans: jakobud.com
Back in like '04 or something the BYOAC'rs started consolidating cab plans and Jakobud pretty much saved the project, the day, and large parts of the hobby by researching, documenting, drawing, standardizing, and hosting. If there was a patron saint of cab plans his avatar would be a big pink cobra.
Hmm... I think I wasn't very clear in the sense that when I said "classic" I just meant the style and not to copy any particular game cabinet, but in any case yes, his site has a lot of plans of different games... i guess I just should stop whining and being a girl and pick one already... (unless it's that procrastinator in me with this model choosing being just one more delay in beginning ::) )
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Hmm... I think I wasn't very clear in the sense that when I said "classic" I just meant the style and not to copy any particular game cabinet
:dizzy:
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Ok, so continuing my research (remember I'm a noob who only has a power drill for now...) I was looking at what tools to buy.
I know I would supposedly be looking at getting a:
- Circular saw
- Jigsaw
- Sander
- Router
My doubts start when reading all the posts from the experienced folks who not only built/build arcade cabinets, but also do more serious woodworking tasks, and that of course look for the best they can get, and I don't know if I should follow the example or take some perspective...
In general, I will be buying the tools first off to build my (and maybe a friend's) arcade cabinet. If I find I can more or less get the hang of it, and start to like it, (and that's a big "if", I would of course keep using the tools, albeit sporadically as I will not be turning into a full time professional woodworker.
So first, take that premise into account. Lastly, I also have to consider availability and pricing in my country. We don't have nearly the same variety as you guys in the US may have, nor the prices. For starters, the exchange rate is about 4.50 to 1 almost with the US dollar, and besides that prices are not the same then in the US but rather much more due to taxes, profit of importers, etc.. really complex, anyway, but just as a basic idea, just think about it as if the prices represent for me the same face value as it would for you (for example if I say a tool costs $200 in my currency, to me it represents the same as if it actually cost you $200 US dollars, even if in the actual conversion it's less than 50 bucks).
So with these two items in mind, here is what I have generally available for each tool category:
- Several "Skil" models
- Several Black & Decker models
- Very few Bosch models
- Very few DeWalt models
- Very few Makita models
- Several "brand X" / unknown brands
Would you then recommend I go for the best I can, the cheapest, a middle ground?
This is what I have, trying to make it short and on one line per brand:
Jigsaws:
B&D models KS405/KS455/KS505/KS650 for $174/$236/$300/$441
Skil models 4003/4170/4750 for $165/$185/$365
Dewalt models DW300/DW317 for $569/$779
Makita model 4328 for $705
Bosch GST90 for $919
Sanders:
Skil model 7232 for $212
B&D models QS800/QS1000 for $245/$319
Dewalt models D26441/D26451 for 4459/$683
Bosch models GSS140A/GEX125 for $550/$717
Regarding the sanders, only the Dewalt D26451 is random-orbital. It is the only brand name one sold. there are others, cheaper, but brands like "AEG" and "Versa".
So for a noob, is it important to have this type of sander, as to leave the less marks and not screw up the finishing?
Circular Saws:
Skil models 5401/5601/5801 for $455/$613/$639
B&D models CS1020/CS1020K/CS1030 for $480/$558/$570
Dewalt model DW352 for $700
Makita model 5740NB for $980
Bosch models GKS190/GKS65 for $849/$1070
Routers:
Skil model 1830 (with bit set) for $490
B&D RP250/RP250K(with bit set) for $492/$630
Makita models RP0900/MRP1000 for $860/$1230
Bosch GKF600 for $1120
Well that's about it... long post but it's hard to know what to buy with this selection and prices! I looked at buying from the US and having a friend bring them over, but we even have a different voltage here! (220V) so it's not a feasible option...
Ok, now I guess I wait for the knowledgeable folks that have the expertise and can tell me how stupid I'm being for not simply choosing "X" already! :)
Thanks!!
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There are a lot of more experienced wood workers on this site than I am but what I typically do is if I find I need a tool, I wind up getting the Ryobi/B&D/Skil version of it at the cheap price as long as the reviews accumulate to more than 3 stars collectively. If it gets under 3 stars I don't bother with it. I then gauge how often I use the tool and how "hard" I am on the tool. When I realize I use a tool a lot and I need accuracy and dependability I move to a Bosch or Makita.
Bosch and Makita are great stuff and I highly recommend them but you honestly need to understand how often you'll be using said tool and whether it makes sense fiscally to add that tool to your life. Buying a $1000 dollar router to make a cabinet every 2-4 years is a waste IMO. You could in those cases just rent said router for $40 bucks for one week every 2-4 years.
What I'm trying to get at is look at the reviews, if they are decent I'm all for the cheaper tools WITH THE MINDSET that if I use it a lot I ACCEPT the upgrade cost and that the money I spent on the cheaper tool is essentially "Throw away".
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Anyone else can chip in an opinion on the tools? (specially the sander question since I still haven't bought it).
I finally caved and bought the bosch circular saw and the jigsaw... Managed to get a little better price somewhere else for the jigsaw, and the circular saw at my "home depot" equivalent with their cc with a 15% discount. :)
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Jigsaws: All too expensive. Buy a $40 one and then buy good blades. It goes up and down. Use a fence and it can make straight cuts.
Sanders: Buy a random orbital, don't worry about dust collection doodads, wear a mask and/or install a separate dust abatement system. Cheap off brand oughta be fine. I sand by hand and will use a grinding stone for angles. My power sander lives in its plastic carry case and hasn't come out in 8 years.
Circular Saws: Oh my holy cats, why are these so expensive? They go round and round. Buy a cheap one, buy good blades. Use a fence to make straight cuts.
Routers: Buy a palm rounter for like $90. Buy good bits. It just goes round and round. You don't need an amazing plunging fullsize router for this hobsession. Get intimate with the palm router and if you want to upgrade later you'll be happy you have the small one. Everything I make I do with a palm router.
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Unless you are going into woodworking as a profession, I would stay away from the higher price tools, stay with the middle ground.
Don't forget the Porter Cable 690 router, one of the best routers you can buy and under $150.00 US, if you can find it.
Can I ask why you want a plunge Router, I have a Hitachi and have yet to take it out of the box and I've had it for over 4 years, I love my Porter Cable 690. Stay away from from the B&D and Skil Routers, they won't last.
As far as Sanders go, you want a random orbital sander, you don't have to worry about sanding marks with these when using fine sandpaper, I wouldn't get anything too expensive.
I have a Skil jigsaw right now and if I had to do it again, I would have bought something better.
I have a B&D circular saw that I have had for years, it's a little under powered but I did build a 20 x 20 ft deck with it, just get good blades.
You should also look at getting a Dremel Motor Tool or it's equivalent. I had one for years that I hardly ever used until I got involved with this hobby and now I would be lost without it.
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Jigsaws: All too expensive. Buy a $40 one and then buy good blades. It goes up and down. Use a fence and it can make straight cuts.
Sanders: Buy a random orbital, don't worry about dust collection doodads, wear a mask and/or install a separate dust abatement system. Cheap off brand oughta be fine. I sand by hand and will use a grinding stone for angles. My power sander lives in its plastic carry case and hasn't come out in 8 years.
Circular Saws: Oh my holy cats, why are these so expensive? They go round and round. Buy a cheap one, buy good blades. Use a fence to make straight cuts.
Routers: Buy a palm rounter for like $90. Buy good bits. It just goes round and round. You don't need an amazing plunging fullsize router for this hobsession. Get intimate with the palm router and if you want to upgrade later you'll be happy you have the small one. Everything I make I do with a palm router.
Heheh I love how everything just goes round and round! (just like the world huh?) :cheers:
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Unless you are going into woodworking as a profession, I would stay away from the higher price tools, stay with the middle ground.
Don't forget the Porter Cable 690 router, one of the best routers you can buy and under $150.00 US, if you can find it.
Can I ask why you want a plunge Router, I have a Makita and have yet to take it out of the box and I've had it for over 4 years, I love my Porter Cable 690. Stay away from from the B&D and Skil Routers, they won't last.
As far as Sanders go, you want a random orbital sander, you don't have to worry about sanding marks with these when using fine sandpaper, I wouldn't get anything too expensive.
I have a Skil jigsaw right now and if I had to do it again, I would have bought something better.
I have a B&D circular saw that I have had for years, it's a little under powered but I did build a 20 x 20 ft deck with it, just get good blades.
You should also look at getting a Dremel Motor Tool or it's equivalent. I had one for years that I hardly ever used until I got involved with this hobby and now I would be lost without it.
Thanks for the feedback!
S if you want a better jigsaw (in retrospect) I guess maybe that was a good choiceon getting the better one..
Regarding the router, I don't want a plunge router for any specific reason other than I thought that's what everyone uses for this. Off the top of my head, I need to do the t-mold slot, and maybe flush cut matching pieces together (like the side panels). Would you recommend something else? I don't think we have palm routers here (or if there are, probably just expensive brands). I can find a dremel mini, but is that good enough for big pieces like these???
I gues it all boils down to the fact that even though everyone is telling me to just "get a cheap one", what I listed above is pretty much the options I have :(
Regarding the sander, sadly the random orbitals are all expensive. Then only true random orbitals I can get are the dewalt 26451 and the bosch gex-125, both for roughly 160 us dollars... Would that be a needed one due to the finishing consoderations? I feel that someone experienced wouldmhave no trouble fixing any finishing even by hand, but being anoob you need all the help yo can get from the tool?
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Darthpaul, ok, just looked some, and I think another reason for the plunge route is that palm routers here are just as expensive (in some cases more!).
Are you talking about something like this?
Skil: http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-423995413-fresadora-router-tupi-manual-skil-mod-1800-_JM (http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-423995413-fresadora-router-tupi-manual-skil-mod-1800-_JM)
Bosch: http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-421898395-fresadora-router-rebajadora-gkf-600-bosch-_JM (http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-421898395-fresadora-router-rebajadora-gkf-600-bosch-_JM)
Makita: http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-146799915-fresadora-makita-tupia-3709-6mm-14-540w-3000rpm-_JM (http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-146799915-fresadora-makita-tupia-3709-6mm-14-540w-3000rpm-_JM)
As you can see, not exactly cheap anyway. Are they more practical for this though?
Regarding the dremel tool, do you mean something like this?
http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-423694469-minitorno-dremel-300-10-accesorios-garantia-bosch-_JM (http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-423694469-minitorno-dremel-300-10-accesorios-garantia-bosch-_JM)
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This: http://www.amazon.com/Ridgid-R2401-Laminate-Trim-Router/dp/B001W0ZI7C (http://www.amazon.com/Ridgid-R2401-Laminate-Trim-Router/dp/B001W0ZI7C)
It costs 99 dollars and a ---smurfette--- aint one.
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This: http://www.amazon.com/Ridgid-R2401-Laminate-Trim-Router/dp/B001W0ZI7C (http://www.amazon.com/Ridgid-R2401-Laminate-Trim-Router/dp/B001W0ZI7C)
It costs 99 dollars and a ---smurfette--- aint one.
Thanks, but you forgot that as I posted, I don't live in the states (gotta remember to keep the posts short as nobody reads log ones! :laugh2:)
I'm actually kn Argentina, south america, hence the links.
Even if I could bring those over with a friend, the voltage here is different so I coud not use them. :(
Edit: lechuck, if that is a brand "x" simple palm router, I guess I could buy my local equivalent the skil frm my last post? (at xchange rate it's about 92 dollars).
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Jigsaws: All too expensive. Buy a $40 one and then buy good blades. It goes up and down. Use a fence and it can make straight cuts.
Sanders: Buy a random orbital, don't worry about dust collection doodads, wear a mask and/or install a separate dust abatement system. Cheap off brand oughta be fine. I sand by hand and will use a grinding stone for angles. My power sander lives in its plastic carry case and hasn't come out in 8 years.
Circular Saws: Oh my holy cats, why are these so expensive? They go round and round. Buy a cheap one, buy good blades. Use a fence to make straight cuts.
Routers: Buy a palm rounter for like $90. Buy good bits. It just goes round and round. You don't need an amazing plunging fullsize router for this hobsession. Get intimate with the palm router and if you want to upgrade later you'll be happy you have the small one. Everything I make I do with a palm router.
I must yell boooooooooo at you. :angry:
Here's the main differences between expensive and cheap tools.
- Duration of usage. Higher priced models can run for a longer duration without overheating and melting in some cases. If you try drilling 1" holes through joists with a ryobi, it may die. Do it with a Bosch and you'll be okay.
- Precision. I can't emphasize this one enough. Just because something is reciprocating or spinnign just like everthing else doesn't mean it's doing it the same. The high end stuff will make sure that the tool always cuts in the same path. No wobble in the blade, no wandering, just perfect repeatability.
- Quality of parts. Cheap tools are cheap for a reason, they contain cheap parts. These parts will wear much faster than their counterparts, resulting in one of the two above conditions.
- Battery life may come into play as well, but i don't have a lot of experience outside of Bosch
Some companies will build machines and then test the tolerances of the machine when finished. If the tolerances are extremely tight, it sells under brand A, and then depending how much slop there is, it may then be sold under brand name B, C or D. Exact same machine, different tolerances, different name on the sticker.
So, at the end of the day, if you don't plan on using your tools for much more than a project every couple years, go cheap. If you're like me and have no idea what tool you'll use next and use them on an almost daily basis, go high end and buy the tool once for life.
/rant
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Yak, I'm hip to what you're layin' down. If the OP owns none of these tools and is coming here for tool tips I don't think he's setting himself up for success by buying life long pieces when he is clearly a part time hobbyist and not a finish carpenter. You're right, but you also have to take into account what you're building and can you correct for variance in your cuts. Arcade building, yes you can. Even most house construction you won't have a problem. You can get a level floor and true'd walls with the cheap tools, but it is admittedly faster and easier with the pricey ones. If I'm tiling I go rent a giant bastard of a tile saw because I want my lines to look like the aliens that built the pyramids made them and I hate wavy grout lines. Anything less than the most professional (read expensive) setup and I find that I am always going to go behind the cut with a file, chisel, and sand paper anyway so why spend thousands in tools to build projects that are barely worth the price of the saw?
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why spend thousands in tools to build projects that are barely worth the price of the saw?
Are you saying that mini starwars isn't worth thousands?
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Yak, I'm hip to what you're layin' down. If the OP owns none of these tools and is coming here for tool tips I don't think he's setting himself up for success by buying life long pieces when he is clearly a part time hobbyist and not a finish carpenter. You're right, but you also have to take into account what you're building and can you correct for variance in your cuts. Arcade building, yes you can. Even most house construction you won't have a problem. You can get a level floor and true'd walls with the cheap tools, but it is admittedly faster and easier with the pricey ones. If I'm tiling I go rent a giant bastard of a tile saw because I want my lines to look like the aliens that built the pyramids made them and I hate wavy grout lines. Anything less than the most professional (read expensive) setup and I find that I am always going to go behind the cut with a file, chisel, and sand paper anyway so why spend thousands in tools to build projects that are barely worth the price of the saw?
Well yes and no...
Remember everything is proportional here regarding prices, meaning a finished standard cab runs you about 5k. So I'm basically spending less than that with the added advantage of being able to build more in the future for a fraction of the cost.
The confusing part is the mixed opinions, between getting cheap since you'll use it occasionally and get quality since you still want a good result finish.
So cant do anything about what I already bought, an the sander i can only get brand names here for random orbital, but for the router, would you then recommend like i asked you in my last post that I get that skil palm one? Or since the price is the same should I get the plunge one? (which also comes with 6 bits).
Which is better/more practical?
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So, at the end of the day, if you don't plan on using your tools for much more than a project every couple years, go cheap.
+1 This is how I started out. I bought a cheap tablesaw ($100) because I compared the price of tools to the "single" project I was going to use them on.
In my case, however, once I had it, I found other projects cropping up like weeds, and I quickly discovered I needed better tools. Now I have furniture all around the house that would have cost me way more than what I've spent on tools.
There's no way to know ahead of time how your interests might develop, so I still say going cheap at first is not such a bad idea. IMHO :cheers:
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So, at the end of the day, if you don't plan on using your tools for much more than a project every couple years, go cheap.
+1 This is how I started out. I bought a cheap tablesaw ($100) because I compared the price of tools to the "single" project I was going to use them on.
In my case, however, once I had it, I found other projects cropping up like weeds, and I quickly discovered I needed better tools. Now I have furniture all around the house that would have cost me way more than what I've spent on tools.
There's no way to know ahead of time how your interests might develop, so I still say going cheap at first is not such a bad idea. IMHO :cheers:
Ok, good advice. And regarding plunge vs palm?? (for arcade cabinet building)
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Ok, good advice. And regarding plunge vs palm?? (for arcade cabinet building)
Just personal, but I'm very uncomfortable with plundge routers. I use mine... but I don't like it.
For arcades... I don't know where a plunge router would give you any real advantage. But, I've only built one arcade.
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Get the plunge router, if you don't like plunging then just lock it in the down position and you don't have to worry about it. However, you still have the ability to plunge it when/if you need to.
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Ok, so based on your feedback, I guess I'll go with the cheaper router, and see where it takes me if I continue with this great hobby.
Now before I rush out to buy that and the sander, and regarding this last one...
Do I really *need* the randomorbital? Asking because for the price of the random orbital (of which I can only get Bosch or DeWalt at about the same price) I can buy a "normal" orbital one (not random) and the router.
If you guys think the ROS is a must, then I guess I'll just shell out and get it, but if not, I'll put that in my list of "cheap" as per your recommendations.
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Buy sandpaper and a block of wood. Screw the sander.
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Buy sandpaper and a block of wood. Screw the sander.
Well easy for you, you do this stuff, but do you honestly think I, being a guy who's never sanded wood before, can do that *and* have it come out decently and not a scratched up piece of crap? :dunno
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Buy sandpaper and a block of wood. Screw the sander.
Well easy for you, you do this stuff, but do you honestly think I, being a guy who's never sanded wood before, can do that *and* have it come out decently and not a scratched up piece of crap? :dunno
My experience with an electric sander (belt/Orbital/Mouse) is that the chance to mess up is higher because they sand at a higher rate. Hand sanding gives you the most control.
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Buy sandpaper and a block of wood. Screw the sander.
Well easy for you, you do this stuff, but do you honestly think I, being a guy who's never sanded wood before, can do that *and* have it come out decently and not a scratched up piece of crap? :dunno
My experience with an electric sander (belt/Orbital/Mouse) is that the chance to mess up is higher because they sand at a higher rate. Hand sanding gives you the most control.
+1 - especially if you are inexperienced. It took me a while to get the hang of my orbital. I still try and avoid the belt sander if at all possible. If you are looking to save some money start with hand sanding.
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Buy sandpaper and a block of wood. Screw the sander.
Well easy for you, you do this stuff, but do you honestly think I, being a guy who's never sanded wood before, can do that *and* have it come out decently and not a scratched up piece of crap? :dunno
My experience with an electric sander (belt/Orbital/Mouse) is that the chance to mess up is higher because they sand at a higher rate. Hand sanding gives you the most control.
+1 - especially if you are inexperienced. It took me a while to get the hang of my orbital. I still try and avoid the belt sander if at all possible. If you are looking to save some money start with hand sanding.
Hmm.. not quite convinced but I guess I can give it a shot! Time to look around for a nice sanding tutorial :)
What grits would you recommend for MDF for the whole pfocess of sanding, priming, sanding ,painting? (plus the in-between-coats sanding)
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220 should do it for mdf. It's smoothe to begin with. Otherwise 100 -> 220. 350 if you want to get carried away.
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Buy sandpaper and a block of wood. Screw the sander.
Well easy for you, you do this stuff, but do you honestly think I, being a guy who's never sanded wood before, can do that *and* have it come out decently and not a scratched up piece of crap? :dunno
My experience with an electric sander (belt/Orbital/Mouse) is that the chance to mess up is higher because they sand at a higher rate. Hand sanding gives you the most control.
+1 - especially if you are inexperienced. It took me a while to get the hang of my orbital. I still try and avoid the belt sander if at all possible. If you are looking to save some money start with hand sanding.
Hmm.. not quite convinced but I guess I can give it a shot! Time to look around for a nice sanding tutorial :)
What grits would you recommend for MDF for the whole pfocess of sanding, priming, sanding ,painting? (plus the in-between-coats sanding)
Think about it like this: When hand sanding the only interface between you and the surface is the paper or a block, both of which transmit a lot of information about surface texture back to you. A power sander takes a long time to learn now the surface is feeling underneath it due to all the vibration. Almost all finish sanding is done by hand to the get the most ideal surface, most sanders just get you to the hand finish point faster. Low grits 60-220 are good for material removal and smoothing. 300 is great for knocking the tooth off of primer coats. 400-1200 is good for between coats depending on how glassy you want your surface. Start with dry sanding then experiment with wet sanding once you're comfortable. In other words, as a guy who has never done this stuff I'd put my money on crap if you were putting your faith in tools rather than in your sense of touch. You'll know when it's getting there, fingers don't lie.
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Ok, so I swung by the hardware store on my way back from work, and damn.. why can't we ue standards/names the world round? :angry:
Here they had 4 types of sandpaper whose "names"/types were (bear with me on google translate for some..):
- Ruby (came in 40/60/100/150/220)
- "Water" (came in 60/80/100/120/150/180/220/240/280/320/360/400/500/600)
- "no paste" (which I assume was short for it doesn't turn into goo? :laugh:) (came in 80/100/120/150/180/220/240/280/360/400)
- "emery cloth"? (came in 40/50/80/120)
The only one I remember using helping out my dad when I was little was the "water" one, which had to be soaked in water and used like that (we used it to remove license numbers on taxi cab doors when the numbering changed and they had to re-paint them).
Attaching a couple of pics of them as well as the "use chart" they had to see if you recognize their equivalent so I know which to use.
I did pick up just for fun some ruby ones to test on some scrap (got 60/100/150/200) :)
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Looking at some plans, where it-s not explained in full detail, I'm a bit confused as to the order of assembly...
what's the best way to assemble the part to get the sturdiest/strongest result?
Is the bottom panel supposed to be on the bottom of ALL? (meaning the side panels and the back panel "rest" on it? Or should the sides be the support and the bottom panel not flush with them at the flor plane) and also "inside" the back panel? ???
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Regarding the dremel tool, do you mean something like this?
http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-423694469-minitorno-dremel-300-10-accesorios-garantia-bosch-_JM (http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-423694469-minitorno-dremel-300-10-accesorios-garantia-bosch-_JM)
That's it, since everything is so expensive, it's better to put your money towards the Router and Saws first. The Dremel is a nice tool to have but not essential.
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Regarding the dremel tool, do you mean something like this?
http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-423694469-minitorno-dremel-300-10-accesorios-garantia-bosch-_JM (http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-423694469-minitorno-dremel-300-10-accesorios-garantia-bosch-_JM)
That's it, since everything is so expensive, it's better to put your money towards the Router and Saws first. The Dremel is a nice tool to have but not essential.
Yeah, I got the jigsaw and circular saw. Guess it's up to decide between the palm router or the plunge one, and keep it cheap like the other guys recommended...
I went to buy wood today and decided as my first time, I'm gonna start small and do a verticade clone (or weecade, but more likely verticade).
Only have a few misc supplies to pickup tomorrow (clamps, ruler, etc) and the it's starting time!
If everything foes well, I'll put it upmthere as a project announcement so y'all can laugh a bit :)
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ok i have to say im going to approach this with humour lol :)
breakdown how i see it on tools
BLACK AND DECKER = great if you lived in the 80's :) it was the best name since sliced bread lol now adays tho i take a few letters out and thats how they are when you continually have to have it fixed replaced yup you do what??
you take it BACK an DECKER lol
RYOBI = little better but not by much perfect for occasional use depending on task but at the end when it breaks youll say with chinese voice RY OBI1 RY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
makita/ says it all really MAKE IT A :) works like a charm good tools not great but good :)
BOSCH NEED i say anything at all about these BOSCH see its cut BOSCH see its sanded :) Typical tools for tradesmen higher price better tool
Dewalt well can you say BRIDGING loan lol if you can afford these then your not going to worry about a few $$$ here and there regarding wood and such :burgerking:
Plunge vs STATIC = good point i guess here the difference is choice i got given a backandecker sorry lol black and decker plunge router its ok for an old thing only prob the depth gage is minxed :S so i have to leave it locked static so i bought a router table and a wolf 1200 3 yrs guarantee and the pair were i think 65 pounds so about $100 in a way its always down to user preference and everyones different
tools you havent mentioned but are ESSENTIALS
T-SQUARE yup get a decent one i bought a roofers T-square its a lot bigger and will aid me for bigger projects :) not much of a cost flea-bay has loads just choose click pay and wait :) waiting means you can read more lol
Clamps yup youll want clamps youll want as many clamps as you have fingers and toes :D theres no such thing as TOO MANY CLAMPS take mountains jukebox for example " http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=79817.0 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=79817.0)
Need i sam more there :) i so need to contact him it scares me lol :)
Pencil loads of paper and cardboard heck cheap stores have the above in abundance im sure theres a few near you use supermarkets also for cardboard get loads of tape too :)
PARACETAMOL/annadin aka headache pills lol cos after hours and hours of bangin yr head of brickwalls trying to fathom stuff out your gonna need em lmao :)
HATE TO PLUG THIS BUT THIS REALLY IS ESSENTIAL OR AT LEAST EDUCATIONAL !!!!!!!
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=15717.0 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=15717.0)
AND ILL LEAVE IT AT THAT hope you had a giggle or two anyhow and things go as well as they will remember theres NO such thing as a stupid quistion its just a quistion the STUPID gets put in if your TOO AFRAID TO ASK IT !!!!
This place is AMAZING like that dont feel intimidated to ask and if i didnt say it before ill say it now WELCOME your life is about to CHANGE better or worse who knows but its changing arcade building is adictive lol but then again so are most things now adays :D N-JOY
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Lol.. Thanks!
Yeh, gotta see those misc supplies ( heading out in a few mins).
So for black and decker I guess you could just leaveout all letters and keep only the first of each word = BAD ? :)
Funny how the "home depots" equivalent here will say " yeah it's a good tool"...
Regarding dewalt, here they are cheaper than Bosch ( depending on the tools a little or a lot).
Now where is my jar of aspirin....
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This has been 1 of the best threads I've ever followed from beginning to present! For the little that my (a schmuck who's been dreaming of building for years but still has very little to show for it) opinion is worth, I'd say, walterg74, that you're in the best hands! You've asked all the questions I've ever imagined & then some. I'm studying what I've read here like crazy! Good luck, w', & keep us posted!
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Not to rain on your parade, but if you've never sanded wood before, and tools are super expensive in your country, have you ever considered taking some plans to a carpenter or wood shop and have them build you a cabinet? Might be cheaper and less frustrating in the long run. I can certainly understand the pride one feels when saying "I built that myself" but I also can appreciate the guy who knows when to pull into a gas station and ask for directions. You might also end up with a better final product if you have someone build the cabinet, then you do all the controls, PC, etc.
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This has been 1 of the best threads I've ever followed from beginning to present! For the little that my (a schmuck who's been dreaming of building for years but still has very little to show for it) opinion is worth, I'd say, walterg74, that you're in the best hands! You've asked all the questions I've ever imagined & then some. I'm studying what I've read here like crazy! Good luck, w', & keep us posted!
Thanks for the encouragement!
Yeah, I like to ask a lot of questions now... Prefer it to being sorry later! :)
Luckily there's enough experienced folks around here that when some get tired of answering my stupid questions, others pop up and answer the next batch :)
Finally got everything I need last night, so since today sadly it's raining, I'm hoping to start next weekend (which is a long weekend for me also, so woo-hoo!).
L8r! :cheers:
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Not to rain on your parade, but if you've never sanded wood before, and tools are super expensive in your country, have you ever considered taking some plans to a carpenter or wood shop and have them build you a cabinet? Might be cheaper and less frustrating in the long run. I can certainly understand the pride one feels when saying "I built that myself" but I also can appreciate the guy who knows when to pull into a gas station and ask for directions. You might also end up with a better final product if you have someone build the cabinet, then you do all the controls, PC, etc.
Hey, no problem! One has to listen to all opinions right? It is possible to not be following the right approach after all.
I did consider that, but I don't think it will be cheaper after all their time is money as well and it's not just the tools that are expensive but everything, so I might as well invest in the tools (while expensive it's not gonna kill me), and learn something.
I'm familiar with the analogy, but one can ask for directions only after recognizing and accepting that you can't get there on your own, and not because of pride but because of limitations. If I don't try (and really try, not just a half assed effort and quit), I'll never know if I really can do it or not. And in order to make a good effort and not a half assed one,you gotta get educated/informed and ask a lot of questions. I also think this is true and good not only for me but for others in the same boat as well (not for nothing we're now reaching the 3 pages without building anything yet! :) ).
See what I found is that while saint's book is awesome and rightfully so, I found it to be basically two main topics: one that explains what everything is ( controls, cabinets, types of games, think about what is best for you, etc) which I already know for having played arcades and videogames in general for over 30 years.... And then the second part is basically a step by step guide for building one particular mame cabinet... That is all nice and perfect, and while granted there are general tips here and there, it basically just guides you through building the UAII.
So what if I don't want to build that? What if I want my own? What if I want to introduce modifications? How do I know what type of support I need for my particular monitor? Etc... I find there are very little generalities that may be obvious to some of the fine woodworkers here, but not to a noob like myself, and I'm doing the best to find these answers between these forums and the rest of the content out there on the web. Things like: ok my wood is different, so besides a "make adjustments" how do I know what screws I need (length, width, head size...)? How should I fit these pieces together? If I choose to do this part out of a different material, does the stuff I need to hook it up to the rest of the cabinet change? And so forth, in a word, something general.
So anyway, just a little rant on what I'm trying to recollect to be able to not just build the UAII cabinet, but whichever one I want to make or create.
Lastly, and going back to your thought on maybe hiring someone if it's just too difficult, I can only leave you with a few lines I love of my favourite speech of all time so far ;)
"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."
:cheers:
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I hear what you're saying. If the cost is really high to pay someone, you can at least get a bunch of tools and try doing it yourself. The only drawback to this is are you going to be happy with what you can produce vs. a carpenter? I guess you won't know until you try. However some of the questions you raise about screw lengths, or design, etc. people go to school for that knowledge, or obtain it from building LOTS of different things. This is something you can't really teach, but rather is learned on the job as things are built. You learn to improvise. The art of improvisation with different materials and designs is something learned from building things.
I guess what I am trying to say is you need to be realistic about your skills and what you expect to get out of your build. Manage your expectations in perspective with your skills. It's easy to look at some of the super nice cabs on this site and have that as an image of what you want, when your skills may not match the ability of the person who built it. As long as you manage your expectations you won't be surprised or disappointed when you're finished.
Now are you going to use those tools or not? What materials are you using?
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Yeah, I understand what you're saying, but I don't share it (or at least not 100%). With that criteria, people would just dedicate themselves to what they studied, and they would have no hobbies or other interests...
I already went to school, and dedicated to electronics and systems engineering, so you canimagine I'not gonna go back to school (literally) to learn woodworking. Now that's not to say I can't learn on my own (besides the fact that I like to learn a lot of things on my own and be self-taught). Will that mean I'll be ale to turn into the world's best woodworker? Probably not, but then again that's not my goal. Can I learn the necessary things I need to be able to make a decent arcade cabinet? That seems a little more realistic.. ;)
Now sure, being a noob and having so many questions means I'm probably gonna ruin a lot of pieces of wood (hopefully scrap! :) ) and maybe it also means that to stick the first 2 pieces of wood together and be cinfident abut it I cold take 2 weeks :) but then again I prefer that approach and that then for my second cabinet I'll be able to do it in 15 minutes :)
I guess I'll just have to wait and see what happens. Worst case scenario, tools can be resold :D
So anyway, gong back to your question, I have:
- 1/4 plaque of 12mm MDF
- 1/4 plaque of 15mm MDF (verticade called for 16mm but I don't have that width here)
Plaque sizes here for MDF are different, measuring 1,83m x 2,60m (a fair amont larger), so my 1/4 plaques measure 0.65m x 1.83, in one big strip for the 12mm one and I had the other one cut in two 0.65m x 0.65m squares plus he remaining 0.53 x 0.65 just cause I coudld, it was free of charge and the squares fit perfectly for drawing the side on a handy sized square slightly larger than the cabinet's size.
I also got a big (2.44m) strip of 1"x1" wood to make the inside mouldings.
Besides that I got glue, screws type 8 diam, 32mm long, which I gladly found would meet the "2/3 rule" if I countersink them 5mm -proportional to the 1/4" ppl countersink in 3/4" wood), wood putty, misc stuff (rulers, pencils, erasers, compass for circle molds, etc), plenty of clamps, sandpaper (might have to get finer grits as the highest I have as of today is 220), and of course safety elements for eyes, ears and hands ;)
As far as tools, like I have been commenting I now have a drill, circular saw, jigsaw, router, screwdrivers, etc, and then it's necessary accesories (bits, blades, etc.).
A couple of still neded things are:
- slot cutting bit: can you believe there isn't ONE f*ing store that sells them here atm?
- countersink bits: same as the above.. Un-frikkin-believable... Only difference is for this one, since it's needed early on, I'm gonna have to improvise with one of several methods to get the desired effect.
In any case, I need to travel for work soon (next month) so I'll be buying the needed bits (and whatever else I may think I need and can't remember now) from the US and a buddy of mine will take them for me to where we will meet (we have to go to a project in Switzerland).
So that's about it for now, stay tuned for more hopefully soon :)
:cheers:
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Check out amazon.com for the bits
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Check out amazon.com for the bits
Yep,already did...
I assume these will do? (depending in the t-molding of course):
http://www.amazon.com/Freud-63-100-16-Inch-Cutter-4-Inch/dp/B0002TUCRA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337601927&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Freud-63-100-16-Inch-Cutter-4-Inch/dp/B0002TUCRA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337601927&sr=8-1)
http://www.amazon.com/Freud-63-106-32-Inch-Cutter-16-Inch/dp/B0002TUCSE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1337602062&sr=8-2 (http://www.amazon.com/Freud-63-106-32-Inch-Cutter-16-Inch/dp/B0002TUCSE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1337602062&sr=8-2)
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yeah, that's the 1/16" cutter that I've used on three cabinets.
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Amazon should have your countersink bits too!
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Amazon should have your countersink bits too!
Right on... :)
I'll either buy the one, or this set right here to have more options:
http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW2535-Piece-Countersink-Assortment/dp/B0000225OU/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1337611531&sr=8-4 (http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW2535-Piece-Countersink-Assortment/dp/B0000225OU/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1337611531&sr=8-4)
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Countersink bit set and slot cuter bits are on the way :)
I'll have to wait til july 1st to get them, but still many things to work on until then with what I already have. If the frikkin rain ever stops that is... :angry:
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So as I keep reading while I wait for the weekend (and the rain to go away...), here's a question for the woodworking gurus...
I see that the basics of getting the sides is to draw out one piece, cut it out, use it as a template to draw the second side and then cut -it- out, and then clamp them together and make them equal.
Now in this last step of getting them to be equal, is sanding them the normal way, or is routing with a flush bit better??
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So as I keep reading while I wait for the weekend (and the rain to go away...), here's a question for the woodworking gurus...
I see that the basics of getting the sides is to draw out one piece, cut it out, use it as a template to draw the second side and then cut -it- out, and then clamp them together and make them equal.
Now in this last step of getting them to be equal, is sanding them the normal way, or is routing with a flush bit better??
Unless you're going to be taking lessons from Mr. Miyagi... use a flush bit. :) It will give better result for a fraction of the effort.
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So as I keep reading while I wait for the weekend (and the rain to go away...), here's a question for the woodworking gurus...
I see that the basics of getting the sides is to draw out one piece, cut it out, use it as a template to draw the second side and then cut -it- out, and then clamp them together and make them equal.
Now in this last step of getting them to be equal, is sanding them the normal way, or is routing with a flush bit better??
Unless you're going to be taking lessons from Mr. Miyagi... use a flush bit. :) It will give better result for a fraction of the effort.
Well, kinda hard.. you know, with him dying and all...
Ok, so does that mean I have to take intoaccound the wood I'll "shave off" and make the side a tiny bit larger all around, or is the flush bit a really really thin blade that shaves the tiniest fraction off the wood..?
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I have an unrelated question, but it fits in this thread. Do I need to use a drill press to do the control panel? I really don't want to buy one just for that one task.
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So as I keep reading while I wait for the weekend (and the rain to go away...), here's a question for the woodworking gurus...
I see that the basics of getting the sides is to draw out one piece, cut it out, use it as a template to draw the second side and then cut -it- out, and then clamp them together and make them equal.
Now in this last step of getting them to be equal, is sanding them the normal way, or is routing with a flush bit better??
Unless you're going to be taking lessons from Mr. Miyagi... use a flush bit. :) It will give better result for a fraction of the effort.
Well, kinda hard.. you know, with him dying and all...
Ok, so does that mean I have to take intoaccound the wood I'll "shave off" and make the side a tiny bit larger all around, or is the flush bit a really really thin blade that shaves the tiniest fraction off the wood..?
What I've done with similar jobs is to trace the second part using the first. The width of the pencil tip alone will make the second part a tiny bit larger all around. When I then rough cut the second part with my jigsaw, I just make sure to leave the pencil line. You should have plenty of room now to use the router as you described earlier.
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What I've done with similar jobs is to trace the second part using the first. The width of the pencil tip alone will make the second part a tiny bit larger all around. When I then rough cut the second part with my jigsaw, I just make sure to leave the pencil line. You should have plenty of room now to use the router as you described earlier.
Hmm ok that sounds reasonable... I guess I can try it out with a couple of scraps first to see if I can get the hang of it...
Are you familiar with Koenigs cabs? Specifically the "VertiCade", which doesn't have t-molding but rather the wood of the sides is "rounded".. is that done woth the round bit on both sides, or some other way?
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Are you familiar with Koenigs cabs? Specifically the "VertiCade", which doesn't have t-molding but rather the wood of the sides is "rounded".. is that done woth the round bit on both sides, or some other way?
I'm also curious how those edges were achieved. I've done that sort of thing before using a round-over bit, but it's tricky... when routing the second side, the bearing doesn't have anything to ride against.
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I believe this is done using a template for the bearing or without a bearing altogether. http://www.amazon.com/Freud-99-019-1-Inch-Convex-Router/dp/B00004T7LY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337837360&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Freud-99-019-1-Inch-Convex-Router/dp/B00004T7LY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337837360&sr=8-1)
The cut is made across the whole edge in one pass.
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I believe this is done using a template for the bearing or without a bearing altogether. http://www.amazon.com/Freud-99-019-1-Inch-Convex-Router/dp/B00004T7LY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337837360&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Freud-99-019-1-Inch-Convex-Router/dp/B00004T7LY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337837360&sr=8-1)
The cut is made across the whole edge in one pass.
Awesome! I was looking for something precisely like that!
So this says it's 1", how do you work it when the wood is thinner, like the usual 3/4" or 5/8" ppl use, or in my case the 15 mm ones? ???
Edit: also, I see that particular one would be no good for me since the shank is 1/2", and the router I have takes 1/4", 6mm and 8mm bits.
Still I found this one like it:
http://www.amazon.com/Vermont-American-23158-32-Inch-Carbide/dp/B000PU0MFI/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_text_b (http://www.amazon.com/Vermont-American-23158-32-Inch-Carbide/dp/B000PU0MFI/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_text_b)
Edit II: so what would happen if I tried to use a roundover bit twice? would I achieve the same result, or would it on the contrary look like crap?
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I have an unrelated question, but it fits in this thread. Do I need to use a drill press to do the control panel? I really don't want to buy one just for that one task.
No you don't, a hand drill, some spade bits and a 3 1/2" hole saw for a trackball and you are good.
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Well, started mini step at a time... Drawing the plans onto my first MDF piece... Did all the lines and small curves, and now only one last curve to go: trying to find a practical way to have a stencil/template for a R675,1 mm curve :o
Guess I'll be moving to project announcements soon (but still leave basics questions on this thread).
:cheers:
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Lo and behold... This thread was not for nothing!
I have indeed started my first project, and the thread can be found here:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=120485.0 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=120485.0)
I'll still keep asking stupid questions here though :)
Thanks!!! :applaud: