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Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: MLew on October 11, 2011, 09:10:33 am

Title: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: MLew on October 11, 2011, 09:10:33 am
So I picked up this Xybots from CL for only $40. Cosmetically, it's in great shape. The left joystick has fallen into the cab, but all components are still there.  Getting these horizontal, angled lines on monitor; thinkin a cap kit may solve that.

Now my main problem, when I plug it in, the monitor comes on..and nothing else. No lights, no boards. Any idea what I'm looking at here? I'm thinking powersupply, but I'm novice at best with these things.

(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c366/hrnn/03b87f45.jpg)
Sorry for the crappy cellphone pic :-/
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-(
Post by: leapinlew on October 11, 2011, 09:14:57 am
So I picked up this Xybots from CL for only $40. Cosmetically, it's in great shape. The left joystick has fallen into the cab, but all components are still there.  Getting these horizontal, angled lines on monitor; thinkin a cap kit may solve that.

Now my main problem, when I plug it in, the monitor comes on..and nothing else. No lights, no boards. Any idea what I'm looking at here? I'm thinking powersupply, but I'm novice at best with these things.

(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c366/hrnn/03b87f45.jpg)
Sorry for the crappy cellphone pic :-/

Ahh, so you're from the St. Louis area? At least, thats where I saw that cabinet. I had considered picking it up, but it's 1.5 hours away and I really didn't know what I wanted to do with it. Good luck - it's a unique cabinet and looks to be in good shape. You didn't get the other cab? 
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-(
Post by: MLew on October 11, 2011, 09:17:20 am
Actually, I'm in Michigan, metro Detroit area
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-(
Post by: drventure on October 11, 2011, 09:18:50 am
Great score. 40$? Really great score!

I love the shape, it's not your standard refrigerator box.
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-(
Post by: MLew on October 11, 2011, 09:32:45 am
Yea, I couldn't pass it up! The side art is a bit damaged on the corners, and a few scuffs here n there. Ya, I'll take it!
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-(
Post by: BobA on October 11, 2011, 09:48:20 am
You are getting AC to the monitor so fuses and power supply sound like a good place to start.
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-(
Post by: MLew on October 11, 2011, 09:53:17 am
Thanks. I will check that out this weekend. (it's at my place up north, so I can only work on it on weekends)
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-(
Post by: MLew on October 26, 2011, 11:40:07 am
Ok, so I was up north and had a chance to work on it a bit 

I got the 1P controller back up in place, jus need to connect a few loose wires from when it fell into the machine.

I fired it up to check everything out, the monitor seems fine, getting power/rgb values seem good.  The audio pcb that sits under the CP has a red light that lights up as well.

The coin mech lights don't light up, as well as the marquee. And on the main pcb, it has a red light (jus like the audio pcb) that does NOT light up. Again, I'm thinking a power supply issue

Now, while I'm somewhat new to repairing, I'm confident I'm not an idiot and wouldn't do anything I'm not comfortable with. That being said, how do I check to see if the power supply is bad? I've purchased a multimeter, but I'm nOt sure "where" or "how" to check it. Or if it needs to be turned on or off when checking.

I'm learning something new everytime I tinker with it, so any help with this would help an eager learner ;)
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-(
Post by: lilshawn on October 26, 2011, 03:30:47 pm
I've purchased a multimeter, but I'm nOt sure "where" or "how" to check it. Or if it needs to be turned on or off when checking.

you'd better hold it right there. don't move a muscle. what you are going to want to do first is do some reading. we don't want you poking into things and ending up in a hospital.

if you aren't the reading type, better google up some youtube videos at the least.

EDIT to add:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=68787.0 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=68787.0) please read this first.
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-(
Post by: Turnarcades on October 26, 2011, 07:00:40 pm
I'd never attempt a genuine cabinet repair unless I was an electronics wiz, as with so many original brands of machine, modifications to the JAMMA standard and arcade owner hacks/botch jobs over the years, there's an infinite number of things that could be wrong. I view all of these types of machine as a 'swap it out or forget it' kind of affair as you could end up damaging more stuff, spending loads of money troubleshooting, and too much time researching, before you even identify the problem, only to discover more problems arise once you do.  I think that unless you're a dedicated electronics hobbyist, it makes much more sense to replace key components if they're not working and just mess with the simple things like the controls and cosmetics.
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-(
Post by: MLew on October 27, 2011, 10:19:58 pm
Thanks for the infos guys! I'm kinda OCD with my research, which is a good thing! Reading, vids, im fine with all of it. But, I do appreciate the direct feedback from you guys. I'll keep ya posted on what I find (or don't find!)
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-(
Post by: Savannan on October 28, 2011, 12:39:17 pm
when you say up north...northern michigan?
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-(
Post by: lilshawn on October 28, 2011, 02:38:07 pm
when you say up north...northern michigan?

north pole.

it's a ---smurfette--- to dogsled a cab.  :angry:

 :laugh2:
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-(
Post by: MLew on October 28, 2011, 04:33:14 pm
Yes, that'd be Michigan. Actually, more central Mich, Hemlock to be exact, bout 15 miles outside saginaw, basically farm country. But I'm live in Detroit metro area, so it's north enough for me.
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-(
Post by: MLew on November 14, 2011, 12:20:26 am
Well, I tested the power supply, the AC was checking 120v. Sounds normal, then I checked the +5 +12 DC and got some big fat zeros. From what I gather, that's the (or part of) the problem.
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-(
Post by: corycet on November 14, 2011, 01:03:19 am
Most likely the 5 volt and 12 volts that are missing, is not part of your problem, but all of your problem. Not sure if that game uses a standard SMPS, but if it does you can simply buy a new one for 20 bucks and have a fully working game.
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-(
Post by: mgb on November 14, 2011, 10:05:53 am
That's a great game, I used to play it all the time when I was in high school. I would think that game has a switching power supply so like corycet said, swap it out. The weird thing is, why does the audio board appear to be powering up if your getting no 12 volts? Also just to be sure that the board isn't dragging down the power supply, maybe you should disconnect the power from the board and quickly meter for 5v again right at the power supply. Just don't let the power supply run long with no load.
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-(
Post by: MLew on November 14, 2011, 12:50:51 pm
I thought that kinda weird myself. I don't get any sound at all, jus the LEDs.  We'll see. I already pulled out the ps (switching). So I'll jus replace it and go from there. It's cheap enough.
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-(
Post by: MLew on November 15, 2011, 08:51:55 am
Anyone know where I can score a good deal on a switching power supply for an atari game?
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-(
Post by: mgb on November 15, 2011, 11:11:28 am
Its been a little bit since I last bought one but if I remember correctly, the best prices I found last time were from Jammaboards.com and twisted quarter. You may also wanna look at Lizardlick and Dive masters site.
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-(
Post by: MLew on November 17, 2011, 09:25:06 am
I think the joysticks may need some work. I haven't taken them apart yet but I've read that some plastic/rubber piece inside can become really gummy n melt down.  I think this may be my case  People say they've replaced them with pinball rubbers? Anybody have a link to what these are/where to buy? I'm no pinball wizard
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-(
Post by: mgb on November 17, 2011, 05:14:11 pm
I'm not positive but I think those sticks are bassically Atari Logo Sticks but with the two extra switches underneath for rotate.
Heres a link to Videogameparts.coms parts for atari logo sticks http://www.videogameparts.com/category.sc?categoryId=147 (http://www.videogameparts.com/category.sc?categoryId=147)

Here is someone elses xybots restoration here on the forums
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=110819.0 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=110819.0)

Here is a pinball parts site that I have gotten some other atari bushings from before http://bayareaamusements.com/ (http://bayareaamusements.com/)
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-(
Post by: MLew on November 18, 2011, 07:39:02 am
Thx for the links. I've read through that restore thread already, good info there.

I checked out that pin site, but couldnt find that rubber piece ppl hav used for the joysticks. (there's a lot "goin on" on that site lol.

Plus I'm not really sure exactly what I'm lookin for...anybody Xybots enthusiasts kno wtf I'm talkin bout?
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: RayB on November 20, 2011, 03:39:06 pm
Check the Restoration thread. Someone did a Xybots recently.

Also, this thread should probabkly be moved to Misc Arcade where it won't get lost among a bunch of MAME topics.
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: MLew on November 21, 2011, 01:45:44 pm
If mods wanna move it, feel free. Misc arcade seems to be where it best fits as its not much a restoration ( its in killer shape!) and ur right, don't wanna get lost in the mameness.

I'll be updating it as I work out all the kinks.
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: MLew on November 28, 2011, 12:16:52 pm
I pulled the power supply, and the manual says it's a 5v 10amp PS. This is what's on it:

- DC Com
- DC Com
- +5
- +5
- GND
- AC
- AC
- NA

Its a Hitron PS, Model # HSA-122B, 10A.

Everywhere I look I see 15amp power supplies. The 10amp ones I find only have 5 connection points. I know the machine has at least 6 wires that connect. Is there any of these (or like it) available that will work?
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: knohbody on November 28, 2011, 12:40:22 pm
The amp rating on the PS is how many amps can be drawn. Getting a PS over 10 amps is fine, so long as the voltages match. A PS under 10 amps would likely not work, or work sporadically.
You have two +5 lines. Is that right, or is one of them a -5?
Something like this (http://na.suzohapp.com/powersupplies/80006400.htm) should work, though I wouldn't order from happ unless you have a large order. they tend to stiff you with the shipping.
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: mgb on November 28, 2011, 01:47:50 pm
I have bought this one in the past. $21 is a pretty good price.
http://www.twistedquarter.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=4&zenid=p4qu24ruj46g4ps0qeuih8g712 (http://www.twistedquarter.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=4&zenid=p4qu24ruj46g4ps0qeuih8g712)

... or this one from Paradise Arcades for the same price
http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/en/electrical/4-arcade-switching-power-supply.html (http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/en/electrical/4-arcade-switching-power-supply.html)
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: MLew on November 28, 2011, 02:11:16 pm
I double-checked, and yes there is 2 +5s. I have wires connected to these terminals:

-DC com
-DC com
-  +5
-  +5
- AC
- AC

Thanks for suggestions, but some of those units have different markings than mine. I know the 15a ones will, but I didn't see any dc com. Are both of these just ground? Do they both need to be hooked up on separate terminals? Again thanks for helping an electronics novice. :-)
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: knohbody on November 28, 2011, 03:51:10 pm
In DC, ground is ground. You don't want to mix em between powersupplies, but you should be ok hooking the DC ground to either one of those. Do NOTmix AC ground and DC ground though. AC ground is usually separated visually and grouped together with the AC neutral and hot. From your description, the connection labeled GND is AC ground.

Hooking up the new power supply shouldn't be too hard. Any connections going to +5v DC will go to that terminal, you can stack wires on top, or splice them together. Your DC ground wires will go to the DC ground connection. on the A/C side, you'll have a white wire which will go to one of the connections labeled AC, a black wire, which will go to the other AC connection, then a field ground, generally green, maybe green and yellow, going to the connection labeled GND.
At that point, make sure everything is correct, then power it up and hope nothing smokes.

Something to check before you order a new power supply though: trace the ac lines that went to this power supply back to the AC in of the machine (with the power off) and see if there's a secondary inline fuse that blew. If so, replace the fuse with the exact type that was in there (or whatever the specs in the manual tell you) and rewire your original to see if it works.
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: MLew on November 28, 2011, 04:17:49 pm
Thx. There is no wire connected to terminal GND. But the AC lines hv a black/white wire, so I'm assuming white is my ground.

I'll get some pix up when I'm home later.
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: MLew on November 28, 2011, 06:57:32 pm
Ok, here is the PS Im looking at, and here is how I think it should be wired up. Tell me if I'm right on my choice.

(the old one is on the left, new one on right)

Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: mgb on November 28, 2011, 08:33:30 pm
Yup your cross connect will work.
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: MLew on November 28, 2011, 10:31:20 pm
cool, got it ordered. Hopefully this will bring some life to this machine!! ;D
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: mgb on November 28, 2011, 11:37:41 pm
Did you actually order from Happs?
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: MLew on November 29, 2011, 07:12:14 am
Nah, I went to Bob Roberts. 
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: mgb on November 29, 2011, 08:36:51 pm
Great choice
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: MLew on November 30, 2011, 12:25:47 pm
Yea he's providing a great service, and I'll always go to him before any of the bigger companies.  ;D
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: MLew on December 26, 2011, 11:21:11 pm
Well, got the new power supply hooked up, and BAM! fired right up!

The monitor looks great, after adjusting a bit, the sound is loud n thick! The controls work, but it's a bit wonky, think the pivot ball is toasty. But, other than that, this beast is workin great!
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: Le Chuck on December 26, 2011, 11:30:33 pm
Polish'er up and let's see some pics!  That machine occupied prime realestate in my favorite burger joint for years, great cab!
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: MLew on December 27, 2011, 07:59:56 pm
lol, well, I was snapped a couple pics of the monitor while on...I would have taken more, but we were on our way out, I had been playing it for an hour! (with f@cked up controls!!)

(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c366/hrnn/arcade/IMG_0344.jpg)

(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c366/hrnn/arcade/IMG_0345.jpg)

I took the cp home with me to take apart and figure out the joystick issue, and when I disassembled it, there was a lot weird gray-ish..dust. Not normal 20 year old sitting in an attic dust, maybe from a deteriorating pivot ball? Idk, i know its a problem with these joysticks, but I don't know what to look for. the last pic, you can see a small gap between the shaft and the white plasitc holder (plunger?). There is play here, it rocks either way that much in any direction. Might have to replace some of these ol plastic pieces to tighten up these controls.

(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c366/hrnn/arcade/IMG_0350.jpg)

(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c366/hrnn/arcade/IMG_0351.jpg)

But, hey! $40 and a new PS, Im happy as ---fudgesicle---!
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: MLew on December 27, 2011, 08:54:00 pm
okay, got the joystick apart, here is what I'm looking at...


mand, that pivot ball is NASTY!
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c366/hrnn/arcade/IMG_0352.jpg)

all cleaned up...
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c366/hrnn/arcade/IMG_0355.jpg)

actuator
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c366/hrnn/arcade/IMG_0353.jpg)

shaft assembly, notice the white plastic (the plunger) it looks a bit worndown, any opinions?
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c366/hrnn/arcade/IMG_0354.jpg)
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: lilshawn on December 27, 2011, 11:13:50 pm
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c366/hrnn/arcade/IMG_0354.jpg)

this is where all that nasty is coming from. it should like this:

(http://www.ram-controls.com/images/LogoStickRebuildKit01.JPG)

look how thin yours is around the lip. there should be an extra 1/16th of an inch of plastic on that thing.

http://www.ram-controls.com (http://www.ram-controls.com) has rebuild kits.

EDIT: FIXT!
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: Le Chuck on December 28, 2011, 12:08:04 am
Ram controls?  Aren't they in court for scamming?  Status of Ram Controls (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=112414.560).  Suprised to see an up for them here.
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: lilshawn on December 28, 2011, 01:00:25 am
Ram controls?  Aren't they in court for scamming?  Status of Ram Controls (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=112414.560).  Suprised to see an up for them here.

 :dunno

i googled (for pic), this came up  :whap

fixt post!

... if i paid attention, i'd get change back.
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: MLew on December 28, 2011, 07:33:36 am
I can get the parts at http://www.videogameparts.com (http://www.videogameparts.com)

Should I replace both the plunger, and the ball? Def the plunger  but The ball seems less worn to me


EDIT: I'm staying the hell away from Ramcontrols!!
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: D_Harris on December 28, 2011, 02:36:17 pm
These are badly designed joysticks.

It would be great if someone did a redesign that just looked like the original with the Atari logo.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: MLew on January 04, 2012, 02:24:44 pm
So I got my joystick parts ordered. While I wait, I cleaned everything. Then I noticed the shaft that is visible under the joystick ball is rusted pretty good.

I think it'd look better black.

So I ran em on a belt sander to remove rust.

(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c366/hrnn/arcade/df78a9f9.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c366/hrnn/arcade/c3cd7698.jpg)

Then sandblasted em at work....

(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c366/hrnn/arcade/a8ebf09e.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c366/hrnn/arcade/7c9f52fe.jpg)

Then painted it black.

(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c366/hrnn/arcade/417a9e56.jpg)

This was pretty spur o the moment, noticed it when pulled everything apart  Might as well do somethin while I'm doin nothin. I think it will look pretty good as it is the visible part of the shaft.
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: MLew on January 04, 2012, 02:29:04 pm
I'll post pics when it's all together in the machine as well.
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: MLew on January 05, 2012, 11:46:50 pm
Got my parts from videogameparts.com and the joysticks are working great now! VERY responsive, smooth turning/directionals. Can't wait to get back up north where the machine is to try 'er out!

Also, I believe I'm a certified pro now at these Atari Logo Sticks lol, so if anyone needs any help, I can definitely help ya.

Here is a couple pics of the newly painted shafts as they sit in the CP...I think that black looks real nice, any thoughts?

(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c366/hrnn/arcade/IMG_0374.jpg)

(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c366/hrnn/arcade/IMG_0375-2.jpg)

yes, yes, the carriage bolts arent all in yet..(I got some shiny new ones on the way)
Title: Re: My new toy :-) with problems :-( (Xybots)
Post by: mgb on January 07, 2012, 08:07:43 pm
Looks great, glad to see they worked out well