Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Monitor/Video Forum => Topic started by: KevSteele on September 02, 2003, 02:11:12 pm
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Okay, I'm looking for a good videocard for my MAME cabinet that has decent-to-good 3D acceleration, and good MAME output as well.
I've been using the Ultimarc ArcadeVGA card up until now, which makes getting great MAME output a cinch, but the 3D acceleration is awful (sub-TNT2 level), and now I'm having problems using the ACT-Labs light gun with the card. (That, plus the fact that I have to install another video card just so I can see all of my BIOS setup screen, and I've decided it's time to switch.)
I've read about adding custom resolutions to Nvidia drivers before, and I might go that route (or AdvanceMAME, but I'm not sure I want the hassle).
Anyway, since my new cab will be used for PC gaming as well as MAME gaming, good 3D is a must. I'm not looking to spend a fortune, of course, but are there any advantages of ATI over Nvidia cards, or is there something else?
Kevin
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but the 3D acceleration is awful (sub-TNT2 level),
Really? That's odd, I get GeForce 2 levels (on par with what a Radeon 7000 is supposed to do). Hmm... You're running a D9200, maybe it's utility is slowing down the card. It runs fine at 15kHz. Try unloading the D9200 utility and see how it performs. If it performs well (or maybe even if it doesn't), try hooking your D9200 to the top connector, which is designed for PC monitors.
Also make sure your AGP slot is set to 4x mode, that could also be slowing things down.
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All the D9200 utility does is add non-interlaced 640x480 & 800x600 modes, I don't even think it's memory resident.
I did some 3D testing, and it comes out below a Geforce2 MX card. For whatever reason, 3D games are jerky with the AVGA and smooth with the TNT2 I've got installed right now, with the same settings.
It'd be fine if I only wanted minimal 3D acceleration, but I have aspirations of turning the cab into a PC gaming station as well, and that will require better 3D accelleration.
I guess I'm really just looking at a Nvidia vs. ATI situation, but does either card have any MAME advantage?
Kevin
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agree the ArcadeVGA doesnt offer earthshattering 3D performance.
the Geforce 2+3 doesnt offer the best 2D quality imo (bad filters).
maybe a Geforce4 ti4200 would be a good choice, plenty fast and cheap too.
guess the difficult part is adding the custom resolutions.
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I guess I'm really just looking at a Nvidia vs. ATI situation, but does either card have any MAME advantage?
Kevin
Sounds like to me it is time for a "video card showdown". ;)
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Okay, I'm looking for a good videocard for my MAME cabinet that has decent-to-good 3D acceleration, and good MAME output as well.
I've been using the Ultimarc ArcadeVGA card up until now, which makes getting great MAME output a cinch, but the 3D acceleration is awful (sub-TNT2 level), and now I'm having problems using the ACT-Labs light gun with the card. (That, plus the fact that I have to install another video card just so I can see all of my BIOS setup screen, and I've decided it's time to switch.)
I've read about adding custom resolutions to Nvidia drivers before, and I might go that route (or AdvanceMAME, but I'm not sure I want the hassle).
Anyway, since my new cab will be used for PC gaming as well as MAME gaming, good 3D is a must. I'm not looking to spend a fortune, of course, but are there any advantages of ATI over Nvidia cards, or is there something else?
Kevin
ATI vs. Nvidia
Very few people will give you a two sided answer on such a poisoned question, but as I'm an economist at heart, you'll get one from me. I've been building computers for what seems a great many years now, and I was there in the beginning when ATI was a giant and Nvidia was itty bitty. So through thick and thin, I've tinkered with cards from both manufacturers and this is my general opinion on the matter.
ATI cards are a pain in the ass. Their driver support has historically sucked and still does IMHO. ATI releases a lot of different models, many of which they drop support for almost after they finished designing them. I have a collection of ATI card's that simply don't have a workable modern driver. Additionally, ATI cards have problems runnning on anything other than an intel chipset motherboard running windows. If you mean to run an AMD system or Linux, then beware of which ATI card you purchase. Additionally, be careful not to purchase an off/unpopular model. There are a lot of them out there, cards that came and went in the sight of a year. When purchasing an ATI card be very careful also to deturmine the exact make and model. You always want a card that's built by ATI. And watch out, ATI's new card naming scheme is certainly an improvement over its former schemes which was, to say the least, shady and missleading, but it still leaves a lot to be desired.
That said, most of the cards I use are ATI cards. Ya, that's right, ATI. The one's built by ATI provide excellent video out, the AIWs also have some handy highy quality TV in/out features. Not to mention, MAME runs flawlessly on ATI cards. It always has.
Not that my using ATI cards hasn't been fought with pain, but the features their cards offer, combined with their price to performance, pretty much nails me every time.
As far as Nvidia cards go, though, you really have to be careful which manufacturer you get your card from. I highly recommend PNY. They are known for producing high quality cards that follow Nvidia's reference design to the tee, which is one of the reasons they are Nvidia's manufacturer of cad cards. A good alternative, however, to PNY is MSI. Their stuff has an excellent reputation, though I personally haven't worked with many cards from them.
As far as which card to get, either from ATI or Nvidia, you should really consult the vga charts at tomshardware.com. They will give you a great indication of what to expect from your purchase.
If you do decide to go with an ATI card, you can use a little trick that I've learned over the years. Don't buy a card with a chipset that doesn't have an AIW variant.
As far as the radeon 7000 goes, the story naturally start's at ATI's missleading advertising. The 7000 chipset is really the modern name for a very old chipset, one readily beat by the original Radeon 32DDR, called the Radeon VE. The VE chipset was one of the first affordable dual display chipsets that ATI released. It was sought to appeal to budget markets, however, and is known for being a rather mediocre 3D card (given it's market age, obviously).
As far as which card to get for AdvanceMAME, I recommend ATI's 7500, an update of the old Radeon 64MB DDR TIVO model. Granted it doens't have any real support for the more groovy 3D stuff, for that you will probably need to go with a 8500 (or a 9700 if your feeling a bit spend thrifty). Beaware though, that AdvanceMAME isn't likely to work on these models.
Right now, however, the best bang for the buck is deffinetely a geforce fx 5200 (not the ultra) or an Geforce4 MX 440 8xAGP make. Both cards go for under a $100 and are guaranteed to assist you in blowing away any ferocious 3d monsters you may cross.
Usually, the best bang for the buck cards are ATI's, but things have been a little topsey turvey over the past year, so there you have it.
http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030714/index.html (http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030714/index.html)
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ATI is GREAT for tv-out and good for 3d games. I have a 9500/9700 and it works great! cheap and everything. But it doesn't work well in non-mainstream games / 3d emulators. Model2 doesn't work well and a few others.
Geforces are GREAT... But the TV-out sucks on 1/2 the cards. So if you do that, you are probably better off with a good geforce3 card then a low end geforce4 card. Also ignore all MX lines.