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Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: hockeyfreak186 on July 30, 2010, 09:08:55 am

Title: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: hockeyfreak186 on July 30, 2010, 09:08:55 am: Hi everyone :),

I just recently dove into the world that is this wonderful hobby. I have read a lot, but am still learning some things as I go. I recently started a 3 sidded cocktail which can be seen here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=104008.0 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=104008.0)

I am trying to keep this thing on a low budget so I went and bought 4 happ competition sticks(1 for each vert side and 2 for the horizontal side) which are 8-way sticks. I heard that for the price they aren't bad. But in recent reading I found that people say it is a pain to play 4-way games with an 8-way stick.

I guess what i had in mind was to find if there are any type of restrictor plates for these sticks, or if I need a 4 way at all? I really only need one 4-way for the main player vertical side. I heard you can cut diamond shaped holes in the cp, but that's not the route I was wanting to go. Are there even a lot of vertical games that use 8-ways that i would miss out on if i were to do that?

Another solution I had thought of was to just buy a new joystick. And if that's the case can anyone suggest a decent 4-way or even a 4-way/8-way for a reasonable price?

Any advice, suggestions, or any help at all would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks! :laugh:
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: severdhed on July 30, 2010, 09:17:06 am: I believe groovygamegear.com sells 4way restrictors for happy sticks. There are only a few sticks that are switchable from the top of the panel...and a lot of people that have used them don't seem to like the feel of them. If you have the money, a u360 is the best option for this. If you want.a.dedicated 4way, the sanwa jlw is awesome. I posted this from my phone, so sorry for any typos.
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: mmb on July 30, 2010, 09:42:24 am: Quote from: severdhed on July 30, 2010, 09:17:06 am
I believe groovygamegear.com sells 4way restrictors for happy sticks.

The Groovy Gamer Gear 4way restrictor is for Happ Super Joysticks, not the comp that OP has. I have a super with the restrictor plate and it's a good solution for around $13.50 +SH.

The Comp stick doesn't have the holes available to mount the restrictor plate like the Super has.
(http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/images/medium/Super4way_MED.jpg)

Screws into these holes
(http://www.pharaohweb.com/pacman/images/mini-joyswitches.jpg)

The Comp lacks that mount point and the actuator isn't compatible.

(http://mirrors.arcadecontrols.com/OscarControls/joycompare/images/comp04.jpg)
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: severdhed on July 30, 2010, 09:54:23 am: ahh, i knew they made one, but i wasnt sure which happ stick it was for. personally, i dont think you can get a better 4way stick than a sanwa JLW-TM-8. it is switchable to 8way also but it involves loosening 4 screws and turning the restrictor plate from below. they are awesome 4way sticks though and not too expensive. $20.90 + shipping from lizardlick.com (that price includes 1 balltop, which you have to select separately)

http://www.lizardlick.com/pages/joysticks.shtml (http://www.lizardlick.com/pages/joysticks.shtml)
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: hockeyfreak186 on July 30, 2010, 11:30:17 am: Thank you mmb and severdhed for your suggestions! ;D I think the easiest solution is just to buy a new joystick, i just wanted to make sure that there wasn't a restrictor plate for the happ competition. The u360 is a little much for my needs, but the happ super and JLW-TM-8 seem to be what im looking for. Ill do a little research on both to see which one fits my needs better. Thanks again!
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: mmb on July 30, 2010, 12:00:53 pm: The Super is cheaper and the bat handle will match your comps.

The JLW-TM-8 is a "better" joystick and has that classic ball top look for 4 way games.
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: hockeyfreak186 on July 30, 2010, 02:07:53 pm: Yea I had thought about that. Is the JLW-UM-8 with bat handle the same stick as the JLW-TM-8 just without the ball? And If i bought a super, could I put my red competition shaft in place of the black super one?
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: alfonzotan on July 30, 2010, 02:28:47 pm: Jammaboards.com sells this 4/8-way stick for $12 plus shipping. I have one in my panel, and it's worked fine:

http://www.jammaboards.com/store/classic-arcade-joystick-8-way-to-4-way-switchable-/prod_282.html (http://www.jammaboards.com/store/classic-arcade-joystick-8-way-to-4-way-switchable-/prod_282.html)

Be sure to completely tighten down the nut on the bottom of the stick once it's installed, otherwise the throw will be very clunky.
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: RandyT on July 30, 2010, 04:12:36 pm: Quote from: alfonzotan on July 30, 2010, 02:28:47 pm
Jammaboards.com sells this 4/8-way stick for $12 plus shipping. I have one in my panel, and it's worked fine:

http://www.jammaboards.com/store/classic-arcade-joystick-8-way-to-4-way-switchable-/prod_282.html (http://www.jammaboards.com/store/classic-arcade-joystick-8-way-to-4-way-switchable-/prod_282.html)

Be sure to completely tighten down the nut on the bottom of the stick once it's installed, otherwise the throw will be very clunky.

That's not a true 4-way. Not sure how one could even make that statement, based on the supposed switching method (flipping the actuator on a square restriction).

From the review someone left..." I keep it in 4-way all the time and it works great! The best part is you don't have to switch it back to 8-way to play those games...You can still get all the movement you need in 4-way mode! " That's gotta make you wonder......

RandyT
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: severdhed on July 30, 2010, 04:43:26 pm: Quote from: hockeyfreak186 on July 30, 2010, 02:07:53 pm
Yea I had thought about that. Is the JLW-UM-8 with bat handle the same stick as the JLW-TM-8 just without the ball? And If i bought a super, could I put my red competition shaft in place of the black super one?

the UM-8 and the TM-8 are very similar, but the shafts and tops are different. the UM-8 is designed for the bat top and is a much thicker shaft than the one on the TM-8. the TM-8 is designed for a ball top, but there are adapters you can use with it to install a bat top as well. i personally would buy the TM-8 regardless of which type of top you want, that way you can change your mind later..if you get the um-8, you can only use bat tops on it.

i could be wrong, but i dont think the competition shaft will fit in a super
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: Ginsu Victim on July 30, 2010, 04:49:02 pm: Quote from: RandyT on July 30, 2010, 04:12:36 pm
From the review someone left..." I keep it in 4-way all the time and it works great! The best part is you don't have to switch it back to 8-way to play those games...You can still get all the movement you need in 4-way mode! " That's gotta make you wonder......

All that did was make me laugh. :lol

Thanks for pointing that review out.
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: RandyT on July 30, 2010, 05:58:28 pm: Quote from: Ginsu Victim on July 30, 2010, 04:49:02 pm
All that did was make me laugh. :lol

I got a kick out of it too. I think I actually have one of those sticks here, but the bottom drawing at the site is way off, which is throwing me.

If it's the one I have, flipping the restrictor on the bottom actually does cause it to rotate to the diamond shape, but it still allows for all of the switches to activate as easily as though you hadn't even bothered. There would still be another piece required to turn it into a decent 4-way, that being a different actuator... or at least different switches. I haven't tried changing the switches yet to see how that affects things, but the ones that come stock have non-standard actuators. They make it a decent 8-way, but 4-way, not so much.

RandyT
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: alfonzotan on July 31, 2010, 10:26:25 am: Quote from: RandyT on July 30, 2010, 05:58:28 pm
Quote from: Ginsu Victim on July 30, 2010, 04:49:02 pm
All that did was make me laugh. :lol

I got a kick out of it too. I think I actually have one of those sticks here, but the bottom drawing at the site is way off, which is throwing me.

If it's the one I have, flipping the restrictor on the bottom actually does cause it to rotate to the diamond shape, but it still allows for all of the switches to activate as easily as though you hadn't even bothered. There would still be another piece required to turn it into a decent 4-way, that being a different actuator... or at least different switches. I haven't tried changing the switches yet to see how that affects things, but the ones that come stock have non-standard actuators. They make it a decent 8-way, but 4-way, not so much.

RandyT

That review quote is seriously goofy, but it does work properly (at least mine does) as a 4-way with the restrictor flipped.
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: RandyT on July 31, 2010, 11:00:37 am: Quote from: alfonzotan on July 31, 2010, 10:26:25 am
That review quote is seriously goofy, but it does work properly (at least mine does) as a 4-way with the restrictor flipped.

I think the word "properly" is being used a little subjectively. A "proper" 4-way doesn't allow more than one switch to activate at any given time. A tiny amount of crossover is usually acceptable as well, because the amount of time the two are engaged simultaneously is very small and usually won't affect gameplay. If your stick has those switches with the large concave actuators on them (the ones designed for it), I think you'll find that neither of the above can be used to describe the function of it. The diamond plate (it's hard to consider it restriction if it still allows full access to all of the switches) may help you get to the switch you are looking for, but you are still rolling through all of them in a big way to get there. In fact, on mine when going from UP to RIGHT, the UP switch doesn't disengage until the stick is almost in it's right-most position and RIGHT engages just a very short distance out of it's up-most position.

RandyT
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: darcyp on July 31, 2010, 01:30:43 pm: for my cab i bought tornado terry's ms pac man stick (http://www.tornadoterrys.com/surplus.htm). for $20, it is a great physically restricted 4 way and looks great too.
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: Ginsu Victim on July 31, 2010, 06:21:05 pm: Tornado terry's 4-way has a huge dead zone. I am not happy with mine at all. You have to press the stick pretty far before the switches engage.
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: hockeyfreak186 on August 02, 2010, 12:10:02 am: Well thank you all for the advice comments and suggestions! I certainly know more about joysticks now than I did before! Im still debating about what one to get, but ill research a little more before I make my decision. Id probably like to have a true 4 way, at least on one of the vertical sides of my cab, then i can play 8 way verts on the other side. So again thank you for the disscusions and the insight! :D
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: darcyp on August 02, 2010, 12:30:05 am: Quote from: Ginsu Victim on July 31, 2010, 06:21:05 pm
Tornado terry's 4-way has a huge dead zone. I am not happy with mine at all. You have to press the stick pretty far before the switches engage.
You do have a point. For some reason I only ever notice this on 2 way games, which are easy enough to just play with 8 ways.
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: severdhed on August 02, 2010, 05:09:52 pm: the JLW is a pretty short, light throw, which makes it very quick feeling.
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: hockeyfreak186 on August 04, 2010, 10:05:39 am: After much debate, I think im going to go with the HAPP supers with the restrictor plate. I figure it would be better looking to keep everything HAPP with bat tops to keep the same style on the cab. Also, its cheaper by a bit and I've read that the JLW has a short shaft and isn't ideal for 3/4" wood CPs.
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: mgb on August 05, 2010, 07:48:24 am: yeah, if you did go with a JLW, you would have to modify the mounting like from top using a pacman mounting plate.
But I gotta say that I really like the JLW sticks for 4-way. alot of people also use JLFs but I think they have a sissy feel to them.
You should be fine with the super and GGGs restrictor plate
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: Ginsu Victim on August 05, 2010, 09:34:29 am: Quote from: mgb on August 05, 2010, 07:48:24 am
yeah, if you did go with a JLW, you would have to modify the mounting like from top using a pacman mounting plate.

Why?
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: DeLuSioNal29 on August 05, 2010, 12:26:34 pm: Quote from: darcyp on July 31, 2010, 01:30:43 pm
for my cab i bought tornado terry's ms pac man stick (http://www.tornadoterrys.com/surplus.htm). for $20, it is a great physically restricted 4 way and looks great too.
+1 on this joystick. I own 2 of them.
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: jimmy2x2x on August 05, 2010, 12:41:14 pm: I was looking at them, they seem like they are great value - but doesn't the extended shaft = longer throw?
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: Ginsu Victim on August 05, 2010, 02:04:27 pm: There are two places to attach the E-clip, meaning two lengths (wood and metal).
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: Radford119 on August 05, 2010, 03:20:27 pm: I feel your pain on this one man. In my first build I used all 8 way sticks and found it extremely annoying to use on 4 way games (pac man / donkey kong) so much so that I didn't even want to play them. My latest build I used a Happ Ms Pacman/Galaga reproduction for a metal control panel. If you have any skill with a router this stick can be mounted flush in a 3/4 piece of wood using the metal joystick plate. I did this on mine and couldn't be happier. I will attach some pics soon of the cab and the joystick. I debated for a long time on whether to get a Tornado Terry balltop for wood panels and was really worried about the dead area people are speaking of. It makes a difference in the feel and gameplay when you have to go an extra 1/4 of an inch to hit left or right.
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: Ginsu Victim on August 05, 2010, 03:27:40 pm: The dead area killed it for me. I bought two based on DeLuSioNal29's recommendation (and even had one donated to one of our competitions (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=90149.0)) and I was extremely disappointed. Glad he likes his, but I can't get past the dead zone on it.
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: DeLuSioNal29 on August 05, 2010, 05:45:09 pm: I also forgot to mention that I also tried GGG's super joystick with the 4-way restrictor mentioned above and it didn't quite work the way I had hoped.
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: severdhed on August 05, 2010, 07:00:47 pm: that's why i'm telling you guys, you can't beat a JLW for a 4way stick. I have one currently bottom mounted in a 3/4" panel, it is may seem a little short, it still feels very good. there is approximately 3/4" from the panel to the bottom of the ball, and it is approximately 2" to the top of the ball. i think i am going to use a router to top mount it when i build my new panel, but it works just fine bottom mounted.
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: Ginsu Victim on August 05, 2010, 07:13:14 pm: I plan on getting one for a future project. At least I've got the U360s for now.
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: RandyT on August 05, 2010, 08:40:55 pm: Or you could try one of these ;D

(http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/images/large/True4_LRG.jpg) (http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=340)

.
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: darcyp on August 05, 2010, 08:44:30 pm: Quote from: RandyT on August 05, 2010, 08:40:55 pm
Or you could try one of these ;D

right after i ordered from you too, would have loved to try this out. maybe soon.
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: severdhed on August 05, 2010, 08:55:23 pm: yeah, i just placed an order too...i dont really need another 4 way, but i might have given it a shot. how is the spring tension, throw distance compared to some other popular sticks? is this stick designed to be bottom mounted in a wood panel?
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: mgb on August 06, 2010, 12:08:19 am: Quote from: Ginsu Victim on August 05, 2010, 09:34:29 am
Quote from: mgb on August 05, 2010, 07:48:24 am
yeah, if you did go with a JLW, you would have to modify the mounting like from top using a pacman mounting plate.

Why?

The shafts are short.
I suppose you can also route them in under the control panel
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: mgb on August 06, 2010, 12:15:28 am: Quote from: severdhed on August 05, 2010, 07:00:47 pm
that's why i'm telling you guys, you can't beat a JLW for a 4way stick. I have one currently bottom mounted in a 3/4" panel, it is may seem a little short, it still feels very good. there is approximately 3/4" from the panel to the bottom of the ball, and it is approximately 2" to the top of the ball. i think i am going to use a router to top mount it when i build my new panel, but it works just fine bottom mounted.

youre right, the JLW is a great stick. I used one in someone elses 60-in-1 as strictly a 4-way and I loved it. I'm building a new control panel and I'm using pacman joystick mounts and cutting the wood of the control panel so that they are still mounted from underneath so if I need to replace them I dont have to tear up my artwork (there is a metal cover over my wood panel).

Just dont go for the JLF, they typically cost more and theyre just puny. But alot of guys like them for fighters in 8-way
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: Radford119 on August 06, 2010, 01:27:46 am: Here are some pics of my Happ 4-way Ms. Pacman repro stick for a metal control panel mounted in a 3/4 wood panel. I chose the metal mount version because of the short throw and short height. This is a 60-in-1 jamma scratch built cab, I made it specifically to enjoy old school 4 way gaming. So far I am really enjoying the stick. The only way I think it could get better is if it was leaf based vs. microswitch. Hope this helps you out.
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: Ginsu Victim on August 06, 2010, 08:27:57 am: Quote from: mgb on August 06, 2010, 12:08:19 am
Quote from: Ginsu Victim on August 05, 2010, 09:34:29 am
Quote from: mgb on August 05, 2010, 07:48:24 am
yeah, if you did go with a JLW, you would have to modify the mounting like from top using a pacman mounting plate.

Why?

The shafts are short.
I suppose you can also route them in under the control panel

Just confused by using a pacman mounting plate as opposed to other methods. Most people use wood panels, so the use of the pacman mounting confuses me....
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: EvilNuff on August 06, 2010, 08:54:16 am: Does anyone (other than you Randy:)) have a review of the GGG true 4 way? Specifically how does it compare to the JLW? Did not see any in the review forum?
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: Ginsu Victim on August 06, 2010, 09:21:24 am: Quote from: EvilNuff on August 06, 2010, 08:54:16 am
Does anyone (other than you Randy:)) have a review of the GGG true 4 way? Specifically how does it compare to the JLW? Did not see any in the review forum?

It's brand new. He revealed it, I do believe, here first. I'm seriously considering ordering one today.

Edit: Just placed the order. Hopefully I'll have a review up sooner or later.
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: mgb on August 06, 2010, 11:01:01 pm: The shafts are short.
I suppose you can also route them in under the control panel
[/quote]

Just confused by using a pacman mounting plate as opposed to other methods. Most people use wood panels, so the use of the pacman mounting confuses me....
[/quote]

A Pacman control panel is wood with a metal overlay. The center is cut out with a metal joystick mounting plate.
Twisted quarter sells the mounts
this setup wont work for some installs but for my cp, it works because I have a metal overlay over a wood panel.
a nice thing with this setup is also that by using spacers you have a little tweak room for setting the shaft height.
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: mgb on August 06, 2010, 11:06:55 pm: That True4 is definately cheaper than the JLW :D
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: Ginsu Victim on August 06, 2010, 11:42:35 pm: Quote from: mgb on August 06, 2010, 11:01:01 pm
A Pacman control panel is wood with a metal overlay. The center is cut out with a metal joystick mounting plate.
Twisted quarter sells the mounts
this setup wont work for some installs but for my cp, it works because I have a metal overlay over a wood panel.
a nice thing with this setup is also that by using spacers you have a little tweak room for setting the shaft height.

Ah, I thought Pac-man was a metal CP, so that's where I was mistaken in the first place.
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: mgb on August 07, 2010, 12:35:39 am: I thought the same thing, but I recently worked on one and found that out.
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: tykenfitz on August 08, 2010, 12:51:30 am: dang, just placed that order on GGG recently, does anyone have one yet? Looks like jsut what I need :o
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: hockeyfreak186 on August 17, 2010, 09:51:50 am: Hey Ginsu Victim, did you ever get a chance to try that true4-way? How is it? This is the stick ill most likely buy as long as its decent, which Im sure it is. And also, does it seem like it could go in a 3/4" wood CP without any routering?
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: Ginsu Victim on August 17, 2010, 10:01:20 am: Quote from: hockeyfreak186 on August 17, 2010, 09:51:50 am
Hey Ginsu Victim, did you ever get a chance to try that true4-way? How is it? This is the stick ill most likely buy as long as its decent, which Im sure it is. And also, does it seem like it could go in a 3/4" wood CP without any routering?

I haven't had the chance to install it, but just from checking it out so far, I like what's there. It will be fine in 3/4" wood for me, seems like it has a decent length to it. I won't know until I have the chance to install it.

Just looking at it and messing with it as-is, I think it's going to be an awesome stick.
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: hockeyfreak186 on August 17, 2010, 10:12:17 am: Thanks for the info! :cheers: ill probably order the stick today :applaud:
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: wxforecaster on August 17, 2010, 11:57:27 am: Does anyone know if the ball top on the GGG True4 is swappable? Maybe it's my nerve-racking sweaty palms during game play, but I prefer the "rough" ball tops that you see on the Pac-Mans of yesteryear, and think they would provide a more uniform texture to my other batts planned on my project.

Evan
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: Ginsu Victim on August 17, 2010, 12:35:25 pm: Doesn't appear to be.
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: mmb on September 13, 2010, 09:01:05 pm: Quote from: Ginsu Victim on August 06, 2010, 09:21:24 am
Quote from: EvilNuff on August 06, 2010, 08:54:16 am
Does anyone (other than you Randy:)) have a review of the GGG true 4 way? Specifically how does it compare to the JLW? Did not see any in the review forum?

It's brand new. He revealed it, I do believe, here first. I'm seriously considering ordering one today.

Edit: Just placed the order. Hopefully I'll have a review up sooner or later.

Any review on this yet? The Super with the GGG restrictor just isn't cutting it anymore and I'm either going with this or a jap stick.
Title: Re: Happ Competition 4-way? or other Solution
Post by: Ginsu Victim on September 14, 2010, 08:32:59 am: Sorry, I've been too busy to make a new panel for it. It's just sitting on the shelf at the moment.