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Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: Dr Zero on July 23, 2010, 06:01:34 pm

Title: Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Post by: Dr Zero on July 23, 2010, 06:01:34 pm: I dont know how many of you read rob ohara's blog but this one really got to me! :cry: :angry: :banghead:

http://www.robohara.com/?p=2270 (http://www.robohara.com/?p=2270)
Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Posted at 10:38 pm by Rob in Main

According to a recent local news story, the cost of vending decals is about to triple in Oklahoma. Vending decals are the stickers you see on arcade games and jukeboxes and pool tables. Each sticker is good for a year, and is required to be placed on “every coin-operated music or amusement device that requires a quarter or more.”

Currently, a sticker costs $50. Last month, the Oklahoma House and Senate passed a bill that will triple that cost, to $150 per machine. Let’s say for example a laundromat has three machines inside for kids to play. That’ll be $450/year, just in vending stickers. Since most locations split the take 50/50 with machine owners, those three machines will need to be played 3,600 times a year ($450*4*2) just to cover the cost of the stickers. That of course doesn’t include repairs, upkeep, or, you know, any profit.

According to the story on KFOR:

Senator Mike Johnson’s name appears on this bill so we contacted him to ask about the sudden increase. He said lawmakers simply had to come up with new revenue to make up for the shortfall in the state budget and this is one of the ways they’re doing it.

If anything, I suspect 2/3 of the machines you see out “in the wild” will soon disappear. The state will make the same amount of money (or less), and the biggest losers will be people like me who always keep a few spare quarters in their pocket just in case they happen across an old arcade game. Places like Celebration Station and Chuck E. Cheese probably won’t close down, but if their operating costs triple, you can bet that increase will get passed on to you.

Is this a great state or what? Sometimes, not so much.
Title: Re: Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Post by: Ginsu Victim on July 23, 2010, 06:33:25 pm: FYI: Rob goes by the name Flack.

Yeah, they're really ---smurfing--- us over out here. A few guys I know that have amusement companies have definitely been vocal about their opposition to this.
Title: Re: Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Post by: RayB on July 23, 2010, 06:53:43 pm: Quote from: Dr Zero on July 23, 2010, 06:01:34 pm
If anything, I suspect 2/3 of the machines you see out “in the wild” will soon disappear. The state will make the same amount of money (or less), and the biggest losers will be people like me who always keep a few spare quarters in their pocket just in case they happen across an old arcade game. Places like Celebration Station and Chuck E. Cheese probably won’t close down, but if their operating costs triple, you can bet that increase will get passed on to you.
You totally nail it on the head there. They use completely naive, short-sighted logic and assume that if the numbers are $X now, then they will stay that way and not be affected by their actions. By their logic, if McDonald's tripled the cost of all their food items, they'd triple their revenues. LOL
Title: Re: Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Post by: Ginsu Victim on July 23, 2010, 07:14:50 pm: Yeah, the logic behind it is very flawed.
Title: Re: Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Post by: Dr Zero on July 24, 2010, 07:11:42 am: Quote from: Ginsu Victim on July 23, 2010, 06:33:25 pm
FYI: Rob goes by the name Flack.

Yeah, they're really ---smurfing--- us over out here. A few guys I know that have amusement companies have definitely been vocal about their opposition to this.

Is there anything we can do to help?

My wife even said that is messed up she said most of us have the games for the love of the games not to get rich.
Title: Re: Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Post by: mytymaus007 on July 24, 2010, 08:29:28 am: All i can say is thank god for MAME!
Title: Re: Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Post by: Kevin Mullins on July 24, 2010, 01:14:57 pm: Quote from: Dr Zero on July 24, 2010, 07:11:42 am
My wife even said that is messed up she said most of us have the games for the love of the games not to get rich.
Quote from: mytymaus007 on July 24, 2010, 08:29:28 am
All i can say is thank god for MAME!

This stuff doesn't affect anything home use. ;)

But it does royally screw those over who have machines out on location/route and those few places that have groups of machines like at family fun centers and such.
The state doesn't understand that these machine aren't bringing in much revenue to begin with for the operators, so now the cost effectiveness to keep operating them has just diminished greatly by adding extra cost. (basically the revenue brought in per machine most likely will not even pay for the tax sticker)

And just so people understand what these tax stickers are -
They are in lieu of paying a specific tax rate per dollar earned, they are just to pay a flat rate per machine annually. (instead of having to calculate X% x Xdollars earned = tax to pay)
There's no way the state can verify how much a particular machine earned throughout the year, so they incorporated these "tax stickers" instead. (otherwise it would be up to the honesty of the operators to verify money earned.....figure the odds of that happening)
Also there are different prices for different types of machine, so only certain "types" are increasing and being impacted by the new laws.
(this is the basic jist of it anyways)

But knowing how about how much these machines actually earn on average......it ain't going to work out with the increase in cost of the stickers, for neither the operators nor the state.
Title: Re: Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Post by: eds1275 on July 24, 2010, 02:29:13 pm: When an animal becomes endangered, people go to great lengths to see that it is safe from any dangers it has that could possibly drive it into extinction.
Title: Re: Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Post by: drventure on July 24, 2010, 03:03:56 pm: Wow, so a 25c game would have to be played at least 13 times a week just to cover the sticker costs. Is that right?

150$ a year, divided by .25, divided by 12, divided by 4.

Does seem a bit "optimistic" of lawmakers, doesn't it. :angry:

I wonder how many route games get close to that kind of traffic.
Title: Re: Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Post by: methodical on July 24, 2010, 03:14:46 pm: Get tokens for your machines... charge 20 cents a token. No more need for stickers. Screw the state right back.
Title: Re: Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Post by: Ginsu Victim on July 24, 2010, 03:24:16 pm: Quote from: methodical on July 24, 2010, 03:14:46 pm
Get tokens for your machines... charge 20 cents a token. No more need for stickers. Screw the state right back.

Most machines here are in laundromats, restaurants, and convenience stores. Can't do tokens in those situations.
Title: Re: Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Post by: methodical on July 24, 2010, 03:35:39 pm: it's a hassle, but you can still have them. Just one option for a bad situation.
Title: Re: Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Post by: Ginsu Victim on July 24, 2010, 03:43:18 pm: Quote from: methodical on July 24, 2010, 03:35:39 pm
it's a hassle, but you can still have them. Just one option for a bad situation.

Yeah, it's a hassle, which is exactly why no one would do it.
Title: Re: Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Post by: Kevin Mullins on July 24, 2010, 03:44:03 pm: Quote from: Ginsu Victim on July 24, 2010, 03:24:16 pm
Most machines here are in laundromats, restaurants, and convenience stores. Can't do tokens in those situations.

Token changers (http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=token+changer&_sacat=0&_odkw=changer&_osacat=0&bkBtn=&_trksid=p3286.m270.l1313) ;D

Ok..... so maybe not super feasible for most of the situations we're talking about.
I hadn't really sat down and read all the fine details on the new laws since our local forum discussion started about it.
Title: Re: Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Post by: Ginsu Victim on July 24, 2010, 03:46:46 pm: Come on, Kev. Like I didn't know about token changers? It's still a pain in the ass for the average small business.
Title: Re: Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Post by: Dr Zero on July 24, 2010, 04:18:57 pm: Quote from: Kevin Mullins on July 24, 2010, 01:14:57 pm
Quote from: Dr Zero on July 24, 2010, 07:11:42 am
My wife even said that is messed up she said most of us have the games for the love of the games not to get rich.
Quote from: mytymaus007 on July 24, 2010, 08:29:28 am
All i can say is thank god for MAME!

This stuff doesn't affect anything home use. ;)

Dont give them any ideas :o :cheers:
Title: Re: Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Post by: Dr Zero on July 24, 2010, 04:26:27 pm: Quote from: Ginsu Victim on July 23, 2010, 06:33:25 pm
FYI: Rob goes by the name Flack.

Yeah, they're really ---smurfing--- us over out here. A few guys I know that have amusement companies have definitely been vocal about their opposition to this.

So really can we make some calls on behalf of the fellow owners out here?

I know many say it wont affect me but with out arcades/amusement centers you lose a source of future games and kids will never know how much fun it is to play a real machine not everyone takes mame and builds a cab.

I know arcades are not like they used to be but heck its not just arcades I spent many a quarter at the local laundromat, neighborhood bar and many more killing time in the airport.
Title: Re: Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Post by: Ginsu Victim on July 24, 2010, 04:28:21 pm: ~~The FYI was aimed at the readers of this thread that don't know him by name, not you.~~
Title: Re: Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Post by: BobA on July 24, 2010, 05:15:53 pm: Small minded politicians (lawmakers) will be the death of us all. They cannot see past the ends of their collective noses. OOPS not supposed to discuss politics. :P :P
Title: Re: Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Post by: RayB on July 25, 2010, 02:44:14 pm: Of course, sometimes the motivations are actually the non-obvious ones. For example, it's entirely possible the politicians want to reduce the number of such machines out on location, for whatever reason.

For example, here in Toronto they introduced a billboard tax, and though it was announced as a means to gain more tax revenues, most people interpretted it as a means to reduce billboard advertising (so everyone but the advertisers and billboard owners were pretty happy about it, cuz there's a hell of a lot of this "visual pollution").
Title: Re: Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Post by: Ginsu Victim on July 25, 2010, 02:48:26 pm: Barely any machines out in the wild as-is.... :(
Title: Re: Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Post by: Xiaou2 on July 25, 2010, 07:30:33 pm: This bill is probably aimed at vending machines which dispense Soda's, Food,
etc.

If an Arcade-Op case is made, it may help to get an exception to the rule.
Title: Re: Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Post by: Ginsu Victim on July 26, 2010, 02:15:46 pm: The evening news spoke of this story and the only thing they even talked about was arcade games.
Title: Re: Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Post by: sstralkowski on July 26, 2010, 03:39:22 pm: Quote from: drventure on July 24, 2010, 03:03:56 pm
Wow, so a 25c game would have to be played at least 13 times a week just to cover the sticker costs. Is that right?

150$ a year, divided by .25, divided by 12, divided by 4.

Does seem a bit "optimistic" of lawmakers, doesn't it. :angry:

I wonder how many route games get close to that kind of traffic.

Your year is missing 4 weeks in it. Just divide by 52 weeks in a year. It'll be more accurate.

That said, Dave & Busters is already crazy expensive. I imagine if this hit my area it would nearly kill them.
Title: Re: Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Post by: kagaden on July 27, 2010, 02:45:32 am: Silver lining?... maybe the machines will be sold for collectors then.

Big government going and screwing everything up with their "good intentions" again.
Title: Re: Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Post by: Ginsu Victim on July 27, 2010, 05:11:47 pm: Quote from: kagaden on July 27, 2010, 02:45:32 am
Silver lining?... maybe the machines will be sold for collectors then.

Black cloud?... they destroy the old machines instead.
Title: Re: Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Post by: ragnar on July 27, 2010, 11:29:37 pm: From recent reading about investment and philosophy. "Every action has an intended and unintended effect". How on Earth do politicians not understand the full intended effect that this action will bring. Are they really that stupid?

FWIW: Maybe 10-20% increase would be OK but 200%? Stupidity.
Title: Re: Goodbye, Oklahoma Arcades!
Post by: ki4swy on July 28, 2010, 07:49:38 pm: change them to the universal coin mechs, and change to 4 nickels per play., 4 qtrs get 5 play :o)