Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Project Announcements => Topic started by: popsicle on July 18, 2010, 04:51:53 pm
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Hi everyone -
My first cabinet 'Digital Gems' (needs a new name - can't help but think 'Digital Exam' anymore lol) has been done for a few years, and now I want to try my hand at a cocktail cab.
Since the upright runs horizontal 6-button layout games, a vertical cocktail with spinners seemed appropriate. However, I'd also like to include a pseudo third side with trackball that is flush with the top of the cocktail where players play standing up, removing the need for the cumbersome 'third side shelf'. I'm trying to keep a similar look with the curves and black/wood style of the upright. Also, I wanted spinners on both long sides and one on the third side too, for 3 player warlords, super sprint, off-road, etc.
I tried to decase a 19" crt with no luck - I unscrewed it and peeled the main plastic housing back, but a big part of it seemed attached to the guts? I was too chickensh*t to sally forth. Cased, I am paranoid about heat dissipation with the screen face up in tight quarters.
Please forgive my lack of knowledge of 3d drafting programs, free or otherwise. Here are some rudimentary ms paint examples.
Thanks in advance!
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i would recommend not to go with the classic pacman-midway or williams panel design. monitor on a high level and the panel significant lower leads to unergonomic gameplay , coz either the viewing angle is bad or the panel is so low ure hands will hurt after 10 minutes. i own a refurbed astro invader table and believe me , after aprox 15 minutes i m done with it . on the other hand i can play for hours on my modified rebuild of a vanguard table without risking any injurys .
some more things ..
- keep the controlpanels close as possible to the screen
- construct everything around the monitor u intend to use
- consider an 20-21 or 25 inch screen , depending on the kind of games u want to play
- build a cardboard mockup to avoid major bugs and to check everything comes out as planned
- try to resist the all in one arcade stuff with overstated control setups
the pic shows one of my selfbuild cocktails
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Any thoughts on cased crt heat dissipation? I already have the 19" crt, but I suppose I could go Craigslisting again. Trying to leave a small footprint.
The three player (spinner) thing is enticing to me. I suppose in theory I could lose the third side spinner and use trackball instead. There would only be two or three buttons max on the short sides.
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It seems that many ppl who have added a 3rd side to their cocktails are generally disappointed with the results, whether it is with viewing angle, space, or symmetry. Your suggestions make sense... I suppose a dedicated trackball cab would be a good project for later.
New design incorporates
1. players sitting closer to the monitor
2. cp a bit higher and a more shallow angle
3. 2 x U360, 2 x TT2, 3 buttons + admin buttons
4. no 3rd side panel
Still concerned about cased crt heat dissipation in such a cramped space. Hopefully an open vent at the bottom and fan blowing out at the opposite side at the top are enough.
Is there any need for an interface since both the joys and spinners are usb and support buttons themselves? Is a usb hub all I'll need?
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It seems that many ppl who have added a 3rd side to their cocktails are generally disappointed with the results, whether it is with viewing angle, space, or symmetry.
Add me to that list. I can't wait to rip the ugly 3rd side off of my otherwise cool looking cocktail cabinet (it's stained blue!).
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Updated plans:
3/4" mdf for black sides and cp top
1/2" stained birch for front/back panels and top bezel
24" clearance for knees when seated, and gap at bottom for foot room
both cps - spinner, joystick, 4 buttons
cp's are 7" deep (7.5" with slight angle) That seems *just* deep enough for resting wrist comfortably.
total cab dimensions 32.5" x 20" x 30"
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Ok, I've been spending waaay too much time here every day. My wife keeps asking me when I'm going to join the family again ::)
The new plan is to go with white melamine coated 3/4" mdf from the local Home Depot for the sides and control panels, black trim and bezel, and lit buttons for both players, possibly also white to keep a sterile futuristic look. Of course I might wreck all that when I add dark stained wood for the front panels. Think 'Intellivision meets space shuttle'. I bought a small shelf of the white melamine to practice cutting on, and already have a satisfactory mdf cp template with holes drilled out, which looks kinda like this.
GGG:
2 x turbo twist spinners usb (both masters for longer cable reach, as I understand)
2 happ competitions, black
black t-molding
slot cutting bit, various wiring supplies
Ultimarc:
I-Pac
Pac drive (LED driver use with mala)
white LUX buttons and LEDs (4 buttons/player, plus 4 total admin buttons)
LUX daisy chain harness
I tossed around splurging for U360's, esp. for better feeling vertical 4-way games (and Q*bert, Food Fight, Sinistar, etc.) but damn those spinners are already driving up the cost, and I really want me some spinner action.
With U360s I can control all the buttons and bypass buying the keyboard encoder, but doesn't having inputs show up as joystick buttons in windows limit your options with non-mame emulators? Not that I can think of any other emulators that utilize a vertical screen setup anyway...
Are they worth it?
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Months go by, and the world turns. Gray hairs populate my beard, and it's increasingly harder to maintain a steady stream.
Also, my cocktail plans have changed quite a bit.
I've used Home Depot 3/4" plywood/birch veneer instead of melamine, the cp has changed shape, and the sides that face the players have been angled to allow more foot room (thus getting closer to the cabinet). All pieces have been sanded, cut, routed, stained, polyUr-ed, and t-molded. I've also decided against using the crt and bought a 4:3 21" Hp LP2065 upon numerous recommendations from Blanka (thanks!)
With the v-shape of the front/back, there won't be a lot of room for pc mounting, but I think I can make it work. The control panels use zippy ball top 8-ways, a turbo-twist spinner, and 6 white led lit buttons. I have yet to secure a pc and decent set of speakers, and will have to get glass cut to fit (the glass will not hang over the cps but fit just inside the top of the four sides). This is a pretty small cocktail cabinet - it is only 19x32x30".
As there is t-molding on the entire top of the cab and the tops of the joysticks will sit *just* under the top pieces, I plan to eventually add a felt table top to turn the cab into a 2-player card/board game table.
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Looks like a good start!
How are the viewing angles on that LCD?
Really dig the color of the wood - what kind of stain did you use?
Do the zippy sticks switch between 4/8 way easily?
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The stain is minwax red mahogany and I had to put it on rather thick and leave it for a good week to dry as opposed to wiping it off like the directions say. When I wiped it off the color was not nearly dark enough and made the grain look tiger striped. I then used a fine steel wool to get it smooth and added multiple coats of spray poly.
The viewing angle is good on that particular lcd, according to Blanka in many posts like this one
-Do you want 4:3 or WS?
-Response time is pretty useless information
-Input lag and moving-image artefacts are much more important, and never told in specs.
19 inch non wide screen is not 4:3 either, it is 5:4
19 inch TN panels should not be mount vertical.
The best LCD for vertical classic use is the HP LP 2065 or the Dell 2007FP (non-W model).
These are true 4:3, IPS (wide viewing angle) screens with low input lag and good game response.
The zippy sticks can switch to 4 or 2-way by removing 2 screws on the bottom and moving the green plate. The reason I bought them is they had multiple colored ball tops available and they mounted easily from the bottom of 3/4" wood panel. I ended up using bolts from the local hardware store and had to sand off the letters on the top and then spray paint them black.
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That's the same monitor I'm using in my cocktail. I don't think you can find a better LCD for use in a mame cab - no worries with viewing angles on that one.
For speakers, you might want to check out the Logitech S220 (http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-S220-Speaker-System-Subwoofer/dp/B000RQSGYO/) system. Sounds amazing for a system with such a small footprint. Plus it has an inline volume control that you can velcro somewhere for easy volume adjustments.
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The stain is minwax red mahogany and I had to put it on rather thick and leave it for a good week to dry as opposed to wiping it off like the directions say. When I wiped it off the color was not nearly dark enough and made the grain look tiger striped. I then used a fine steel wool to get it smooth and added multiple coats of spray poly.
Wow I can't believe it came out as good as that picture makes it look based on your description! If you want a deep color you are supposed to leave the stain on for a while (like an hour max) but still wipe it off. If it isn't dark enough you repeat that process until you get the desired color. I can't believe it didn't dry completely uneven! :o
Looks like you are off to a good start! :cheers:
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Good timing pieceof8 - I was just given an Amazon gift card for $25 yesterday. The $25 Logitech speaker system you recommended has now been ordered!
Avery, the Minwax instructions say to leave the stain on for 5-10 minutes, then wipe it off. I left it on for a good 20 or 30, and still had the same problems after 3 coats, so I just painted it on and let it dry for a long time. Someone else in a different thread had the same problem with the darker stain. I think maybe the very thin birch layer on top of this particular ply doesn't absorb the stain so well.
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A bit of progress today... assembly !
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Turning out nicely. Small-form cocktail with some nice lines! :applaud:
I like the CP roundness, as well as the skinny box shape.
Though I was looking forward to seeing your top mounted trackball, did I read correctly that you've nixed that idea? Would have been nice for a flat area for Golden Tee type games.
I also think you're missing a Coin-door. For a cocktail, aside from the glass and t-molding, a coin-door definitely says "arcade game", as well as gives you an opportunity to give it a few more lit-up things (the 25 coin inserts), for that extra allure.
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Thanks for the compliments, everyone. It's always exciting to read new posts about your project, especially positive ones :)
Yes, I did away with the trackball (and 3rd side altogether) and will maybe do a dedicated trackball cab in the future with the stand up and play idea.
When I was building my upright cabinet, I was wanting to add a coin door and was looking on ebay. My wife came into the room and said something like "Why the hell would you ruin that lovely stained wood with that ugly piece of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---?"
Ahem... she just saw me here posting another message and added "Would you stop screwing with that thing and let the kids play on it already?"
:dizzy:
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Aww, that's too bad. I personally think a freshly restored Coin door is a thing of beauty, with lit-up inserts, and NOS face plates. Specifically the Midway ones.
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:2dFmGcr7vL3IjM:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/bboldt3/100_0387.jpg&t=1)
Here's a shot of a restored pac-man cocktail with a single slot door (without faceplate).
(http://blog.makezine.com/pac-finish.jpg)
Owl-face coin doors are also pretty hot looking too when cleaned up:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3179/2985278819_3bc01c2971.jpg?v=0)
But hey, it's your cabinet, and your wife...more and more often I read a lot of guys here having to compromise with the wife's opinion to have it accepted as a hobby, and in the home. I too am under a rule of "maximum-of-two-cabinets" in our home, (though I broke it recently by acquiring the third...that was a night of nagging for sure - 'cause she "doesn't want our home to turn into an arcade"...women!). But hey, doesn't stop me from having cabinets at the office! ;)
Show her these images, and ask her if she still thinks they're ugly. I'm thinking she made that comment 'cause she saw a rusted, old, non-restored one off ebay.
Anyways, you're cocktail has piqued my interest with it's design. I'll be following along, so post more pics as you go!
:cheers:
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So.... I was shopping at the local thrift store yesterday and one of my ex-students was working there. I asked her 'do you happen to have any computers?' and she took me to the back donation area that is usually off limits to shoppers and put 2 towers in my basket. 'How much?' I asked. 'I dunno, a buck each?' she said.
* SCORE * :o
1. emachines 3000+ Athlon 160gb hd, 512mb ddr
2. some ol' generic tower from 1996 - couldn't even get a keyboard here attached, so it wouldn't boot (rs-232 keyboard only)
I did manage to get the AMD machine running, stripped out the optical drives/card readers/network cards and spent all evening uninstalling everything that was not a bare bones necessity (I don't plan on networking this cab). The 'black viper xp tweaks' page someone here suggested came in real handy, and I'm down to a 30 second boot-up time.
I managed to mount the mobo, ps, and hdd to a chunk of leftover wood, and will slide the whole thing down one of the slanted cocktail sides. I plucked out the power button from the older computer and might find a way to use it with a standard happ button. Any ideas why there are four wires coming off this switch instead of 2?
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I plucked out the power button from the older computer and might find a way to use it with a standard happ button. Any ideas why there are four wires coming off this switch instead of 2?
If the computer's that old, it's probably pre-ATX - AT, maybe? I don't remember how power switches were wired back in the olden days. ;D
I'm not clear on why you need it, though... If you're using a Happ button, all you should need to do is run two wires from the microswitch in the button to the power switch header on the motherboard.
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That older power supply is an AT. The four wires on the switch are 120 VAC going into power supply.
The switch is a push on/push off switch. It breaks the neutral and the hot wires going to the power supply.
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I noticed the push on/push off function of the older button and thought it might be easier to set it up to power up and power down the cab for some reason instead of a standard pushbutton. Don't know why I just didn't think to use the Happ directly :embarassed:
I suppose I don't really need either... went into the bios tonight and set it to boot upon power loss, so I could just plug everything into a power strip and mount the strip on the lower interior of the cab. This way I can reach under (there's a 1.5" gap by the players' feet for air intake) and flip the strip on, and my 2-year olds won't accidentally turn the blasted thing on when I'm not home (or turn it off while I'm playing!). I plan on using Mala and I think there's an option to shut pc down when quitting somewhere in there.
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Well, you could still use the AT push on/push off switch to kill the power strip if you want. Its just a DPST switch.
Think of it as two regular switches in one, they both turn on and off together. You could even use just half of the switch to switch the "hot" wire going to the power strip.
Im not sure what the current rating is for that switch, but Im pretty sure it will handle the electrics in most cabs.
You might have a good idea there, if you can attach it to a happ button, or similar button for the face.. not a bad idea at all.
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Almost finished -
I had a few snafu's pop up, as most probably do. The integrated sound of the mounted pc didn't work (I never tested the sound), so I went to the local parts house and bought a cheapo $5 pci soundcard. This was fine, but since the damn thing stuck out so high on the board it hit the bottom of the lcd. I had to lower the entire wood plank everything was mounted into, and it *just* cleared the power strip mounted on the very bottom of that side. Also, the green input jack on the new card for the speakers ran right into the monitor support rail I glued in place. :'( So... I had to add 2 additional support rails behind the pc to bring it out from the wall a bit. Then I had problems getting this new sound card to work, as trying to disable the integrated one wasn't as intuitive as it could have been. But, persistence prevailed.
It would have been really nice to have cut holes for the speakers and fan before all the staining/polyurethane, but I wasn't sure where exactly where everything was going to fit. I ended up sandwiching the pieces between 2 large pieces of mdf and drilling large holes in a pattern with a steel template, but some holes are ragged looking where the finishing chipped off or shredded. I used a dark brown furniture touch-up marker to mask some of the damage, but ended up with a round black speaker grill to cover up the fan, and will need to find similar rectangular grill covers for the speakers. Any ideas on where I might find these?
Next, all the wiring. This was cumbersome, esp. with lit buttons. I need to take notes on neat wiring. I'm amazed at how clean the guts of some of the projects posted here are.
Then, a small heart attack. After all the wiring was complete, I plugged everything in and flipped the switch... buttons lit up.. pc started up.. and seconds later zap. Power down. Nothing. I had set the pc in the bios to start up upon power failure, but it wouldn't recover when I flipped the power strip on and off like it had previously. Luckily, when I wired a microswitch to the the mobo power it came back. Not sure why this happened, but it could have been the plugging in of the i-pac, both TT2s, and a wireless mouse before powering up.
Compiled mame .140 with the hi score/no nag diffs. Took a few tries to get it right.
Glass has been ordered, and will be in Monday. I ordered a light grey tint, so I'll probably have to up the contrast/brightness of the lcd.
I couldn't get either spinner working in mame, but I didn't play with the settings too much yet. They are both masters, which apparently means they both use x-axis. With an additional usb mouse plugged in, maybe that's why? I need to do some more reading.
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Love the finish of the wood!
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Wires!! Wires, everywhere!! >:D
Looking nice. I bet it was fun fitting everything inside such a small space.
I couldn't get either spinner working in mame, but I didn't play with the settings too much yet. They are both masters, which apparently means they both use x-axis. With an additional usb mouse plugged in, maybe that's why? I need to do some more reading.
You have to go into mame.ini and set multimouse to 1, then you'll be able to go into the controls settings and set each players spinner ("dial") controls to the proper spinner. I ordered two masters too and had to ask Randy about this.
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What made you go with the Birch veneer and red Mahogany stain?
Did you just prefer that look or were are you trying to give the cabinet a home aesthetic?
I'm assuming that a simple black cabinet would not have worked.
Darren
The stain is minwax red mahogany and I had to put it on rather thick and leave it for a good week to dry as opposed to wiping it off like the directions say. When I wiped it off the color was not nearly dark enough and made the grain look tiger striped. I then used a fine steel wool to get it smooth and added multiple coats of spray poly.
The viewing angle is good on that particular lcd, according to Blanka in many posts like this one
-Do you want 4:3 or WS?
-Response time is pretty useless information
-Input lag and moving-image artefacts are much more important, and never told in specs.
19 inch non wide screen is not 4:3 either, it is 5:4
19 inch TN panels should not be mount vertical.
The best LCD for vertical classic use is the HP LP 2065 or the Dell 2007FP (non-W model).
These are true 4:3, IPS (wide viewing angle) screens with low input lag and good game response.
The zippy sticks can switch to 4 or 2-way by removing 2 screws on the bottom and moving the green plate. The reason I bought them is they had multiple colored ball tops available and they mounted easily from the bottom of 3/4" wood panel. I ended up using bolts from the local hardware store and had to sand off the letters on the top and then spray paint them black.
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I wanted the cabinet to look more like living room furniture and less like it belonged in a pizza parlor. It's not that I don't like the look of the classic cabs, but this will double as a board game/card table too when I add the top (that's why the controls are sort of hidden between the wings of the sides).
Also, I painted/sanded black mdf for my upright, and vowed I wasn't going to paint ANYTHING this time around :)
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Pretty much done :)
- Glass installed, painted backside
- Mala up and running with Ledblinky
- 3 port usb extender added to bottom of cab for easy keyboard/mouse when needed
Favorite spinner games so far: Warlords, Cameltry, Tempest, Kick, Firetruck, Tac/Scan, Sprint, APB, Buggy Boy
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Looks nice! How did you mount the glass?
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The glass sort of sits on the monitor, but is also supported by the tops of both sides of the 'v' shape wood panels that face the players. I had to cut notches in these as the glass was cut a tiny bit too big. I had to put a felt tab on a corner bracket to support one side that was wobbly. :angry:
The t-molding overlaps the glass and helps to hold it down in place, and it's all pretty stable at this point.
I've had to take it off already once and had to redo a lot of the black paint that scraped off in the process. It's not the easiest thing to remove and replace...
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A few minor updates:
MagStick+'s replace zippys. I didn't care for the long throw of the zippy sticks, and 4/8 way switching above the panel has made a huge difference in the amount of games that are now frequented. The mags come with rather harsh switches (Andy claims this is being looked at and will be shipping with softer switches soon) but I read a great post by EagleTG:
I've modified the switches in mine. The ones Ultimarc used were very stiff, I replaced it with ones that actuate closer to the Cherry pressure (50 gram?). I've just recently acquired even lighter microswitches (20 gram) that I'm planning on replacing to see if I can make it even more responsive/lighter touch.
Here's a write-up I did on my mod:
http://www.togeo.com/togeo/wordpress/?p=67 (http://www.togeo.com/togeo/wordpress/?p=67)
Thanks.
...so I used the zippy switches and trimmed them and fit them to the mags. What a HUGE difference. Thanks EagleTG!
Second, I replaced the white button LED with the standard Neo-Geo red/orange/green/blue for a bit more color. They are still white when not lit up. A couple of specialty green buttons I found at a local electronics parts house are now used for player starts.
A new custom layout for mala with old school arcade font rounds it out. I still plan to make a felt covered hard top for this table to be used for board/card gaming, but haven't gotten around to it. The control panel was kept just low enough for the top of the joys to not protrude past the top of the cab for this reason.
After 6 months, the cab is quiet, cool, comfortable, and gets a lot of use (especially my 4 and 8 year olds). I really am very pleased with its small footprint and design. The slanted front and back panels allow player feet to get closer and gives the cp just the right angle, and the button/spinner/joy layout works very well.
What's the next project going to be???
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Very nice LCD cocktail!
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i would recommend not to go with the classic pacman-midway or williams panel design. monitor on a high level and the panel significant lower leads to unergonomic gameplay , coz either the viewing angle is bad or the panel is so low ure hands will hurt after 10 minutes. i own a refurbed astro invader table and believe me , after aprox 15 minutes i m done with it . on the other hand i can play for hours on my modified rebuild of a vanguard table without risking any injurys .
some more things ..
- keep the controlpanels close as possible to the screen
- construct everything around the monitor u intend to use
- consider an 20-21 or 25 inch screen , depending on the kind of games u want to play
- build a cardboard mockup to avoid major bugs and to check everything comes out as planned
- try to resist the all in one arcade stuff with overstated control setups
the pic shows one of my selfbuild cocktails
This is one of the best cocktail designs I've seen. Damn, it makes me want to build one, but I've officially ran out of room..
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very nice! :applaud:
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Just stumbled upon your thread, really nice cocktail design.
I like the positioning of the CPs in relation to the monitor - the viewing angle looks great and the controls don't look they'll give you sore arms.
Well done my man! :applaud:
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i find the stained look very appealing. i never stained anything in my life , always used acrylic and resin base tranlucent varnish or just some oil to impregnate the wood. there are so many kinds and brands of stain , i couldnt decide which one would fit the purpose. doesnt ur minwax stuff require some clear coating after the staining procedere ? i know some stains are water based. or is it really a wax / oil based material ?
birch plywood would also have been my first choice . its durable , cheap and soaks fluids better in than hartwood.
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I was a little hesitant too, as this was the first time I had stained anything. I used an old thick paintbrush to brush it on while the wood was flat on the table. Like I said I had to wait a long time for it to dry and then took fine steel wool to lightly smooth it out. There were a few instances where I had to reapply stain or brush it around until it looked uniform, but it wasn't a big deal. The biggest pain was having to wait so long for it to dry.. like 8 days in my ultra humid Houston garage. Still way less of a pain than paint, sand, paint, sand, etc.
I used spray polyurethane as a top coat (clear semi-gloss, I think) and put on about a dozen coats. More than a dozen for the control panels, but they've held up well and wipe clean easily, even with little people constantly touching every part of it with their sticky little hands. I wipe the fingerprints off the top daily! How dare these little urchins touch the arcade cabinet I built for them! (yeah, right >:D)
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Still say that's the best looking cocktail I've ever seen... amazing! Maybe someday you can post rough dimensions? How is it for adults to sit at and play? Also, have you tried using it as a card table as you mentioned previously? How did that work out?
Last question, do you take orders? hehehe...
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Excellent job! Very, very nice and elegant!
Congratulations!
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For a first time stain job, excellent work! :applaud:
Nice clean lines, and I think the stained furniture look approach looks much better than an all black traditional look (now, if it was going in a game room, I could see an all black cab...)
And you're playing Warlords on it!