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Main => Buy/Sell/Trade - non-retail => Topic started by: spacegoogie on May 27, 2010, 10:28:44 pm

Title: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: spacegoogie on May 27, 2010, 10:28:44 pm
Hey guys, I put my 360 on craigslist ( http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/vgm/1692639322.html (http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/vgm/1692639322.html) ) for $300.00 do you think this is a good price?
Please let me know what you think. Should the price go up or down?
Thanks!
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: northerngames on May 27, 2010, 11:45:03 pm
WTF
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: spacegoogie on May 28, 2010, 01:00:42 am
WTF
 ???

I don't think what I wrote was complicated, Let me try again. I'm selling my Xbox 360 for $300.00 with games.
Is $300.00 asking to much? I don't know how else to put it.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: solidteezme on May 28, 2010, 06:15:41 am
Too high! 
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: spacegoogie on May 28, 2010, 06:40:39 am
Really  :-\ even with all the games listed? What do you think I should be asking for it? I wold like to get as much as I can. Thanks for the info. :cheers:
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: Malenko on May 28, 2010, 08:30:08 am
yeah... a new 360 is 200 and youre tossing in 80 bux worth of used games, all for $300!
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: spacegoogie on May 28, 2010, 09:47:39 am
$80.00 worth of games :o  thats it? Crap. What if I sell each game separately, could I make more money that way? If so how much should I sell just a 360 for? :cheers:
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: HaRuMaN on May 28, 2010, 10:14:58 am
I'd pay $5 for that MK vs DC
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: versapak on May 28, 2010, 11:27:26 am
I'd pay $5 for that MK vs DC

Of course you would, since you'd have to pay about 5 times that to buy it used in a store.  ::)




Don't listen to the cheapskates around here. That is not THAT bad deal considering how much you are including. If you can sell it at that price go for it. You will find out on your own if people bite or not. It isn't like you could lower the price if there are no takers.

It may still be hard to sell all as a bundle, as with most bundles there is stuff that a purchaser probably would not want, and will always exclude their value in the bundle because of.

Also... I assume the hard drive is included? If so, you should probably mention that. The $200 new systems do not come with one.


Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: HaRuMaN on May 28, 2010, 11:33:47 am
I'd pay $5 for that MK vs DC

Of course you would, since you'd have to pay about 5 times that to buy it used in a store.  ::)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mortal-Kombat-vs-DC-Universe-Xbox-360-2008-/280512085151?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item414fd2bc9f (http://cgi.ebay.com/Mortal-Kombat-vs-DC-Universe-Xbox-360-2008-/280512085151?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item414fd2bc9f)

$15.50 Shipped  ::)
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: Malenko on May 28, 2010, 12:38:31 pm
lips goes for about 25 (which I think is too high)


GH3 SEALED is $9 shipped
http://cgi.ebay.com/SEALED-XBox-360-Guitar-Hero-3-Legends-Rock-GAME-ONLY-/250423015994?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item3a4e5ffa3a (http://cgi.ebay.com/SEALED-XBox-360-Guitar-Hero-3-Legends-Rock-GAME-ONLY-/250423015994?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item3a4e5ffa3a)
guitars go for about 10

GTA4 = $14.50
http://cgi.ebay.com/Grand-Theft-Auto-IV-4-Xbox-360-/200475040999?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item2ead3e5ce7 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Grand-Theft-Auto-IV-4-Xbox-360-/200475040999?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item2ead3e5ce7)

You're in the movies NEW & SEALED WITH CAMERA = 25
http://cgi.ebay.com/Youre-Movies-w-Camera-XBOX-360-BRAND-NEW-/120451450210?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item1c0b774562 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Youre-Movies-w-Camera-XBOX-360-BRAND-NEW-/120451450210?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item1c0b774562)

Scene it! w controllers NEW = 28
http://cgi.ebay.com/Scene-it-Box-Office-Smash-Game-Controller-XBOX-360-/110508091913?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item19bacbaa09 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Scene-it-Box-Office-Smash-Game-Controller-XBOX-360-/110508091913?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item19bacbaa09)

thats for new sealed, his is used, and in a house with kids.  Sorry I didnt shorted links, but I dont feel like it

the hard drive? I see auctions end without a single bid asking for $25
http://cgi.ebay.com/20GB-Hard-Disk-Drive-HDD-MICROSOFT-XBOX-360-XBOX360-/290439492463?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item439f8af36f (http://cgi.ebay.com/20GB-Hard-Disk-Drive-HDD-MICROSOFT-XBOX-360-XBOX360-/290439492463?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item439f8af36f)

theres no less then 500 of the 20GB drives on ebay at a time. no demand with the 60, 120, and 250 drives out there.


I'd pay $5 for that MK vs DC
I wouldnt, I still kick myself int he nuts for buying the "kollectors Edition" for $70 , such a terrible game.
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: solidteezme on May 28, 2010, 01:09:00 pm
such a terrible game.

I liked it, its actually pretty good for a new skool fighter.  :P
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: versapak on May 28, 2010, 01:17:49 pm
I'd pay $5 for that MK vs DC

Of course you would, since you'd have to pay about 5 times that to buy it used in a store.  ::)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mortal-Kombat-vs-DC-Universe-Xbox-360-2008-/280512085151?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item414fd2bc9f (http://cgi.ebay.com/Mortal-Kombat-vs-DC-Universe-Xbox-360-2008-/280512085151?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item414fd2bc9f)

$15.50 Shipped  ::)

Wow, that is so cute that you can't read.

::)


I also think it is funny that you defend you stance by posting a link to the game for what is still 3X your offer. Yay you.  :notworthy:



Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: Thenasty on May 28, 2010, 01:20:29 pm
@OP
Save your time and headaches reading all this nonsense.
End this madness and be done with it. Just sell it to me for $50 includes shipping and no more nonsense you have to deal with  ;D




note: This will be tha last one you read  :D
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: Hoopz on May 28, 2010, 01:40:14 pm

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=87353.0 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=87353.0)

 :police:
Easy tiger.  SirHarumaN is going to get upset for you stealing his thunder.   :lol
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: Malenko on May 28, 2010, 01:50:28 pm

I also think it is funny that you defend you stance by posting a link to the game for what is still 3X your offer. Yay you.  :notworthy:


good call, here it is for 5. And haruman offered 5 (Im assumin + shipping) the auction is for 15.50 shipped. So realistically he offered about 75% of the auction, not 1/3rd

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mortal-Kombat-vs-DC-Universe-Xbox-360-/150446806584?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item2307541638 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Mortal-Kombat-vs-DC-Universe-Xbox-360-/150446806584?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item2307541638)

and out of curiosity, how is him selling it used in a private sale the same as a store (and by "a store" I mean gamestop) selling it for $25 used? If he sold it to gamestop how much would he get?


Anyways, back to the OP, used 360s are a dime a dozen and dont hold their value. The games you are selling are relatively old and not worth much (and not really in demand either). Best of luck with it.
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: versapak on May 28, 2010, 01:52:41 pm

I also think it is funny that you defend you stance by posting a link to the game for what is still 3X your offer. Yay you.  :notworthy:


good call, here it is for 5

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mortal-Kombat-vs-DC-Universe-Xbox-360-/150446806584?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item2307541638 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Mortal-Kombat-vs-DC-Universe-Xbox-360-/150446806584?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item2307541638)


Not even close. :P


That is not a buy it now auction, and it still has 23+ hours to go. There is no way it goes for that price. ;)


Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: HaRuMaN on May 28, 2010, 01:56:40 pm

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=87353.0 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=87353.0)

 :police:
Easy tiger.  SirHarumaN is going to get upset for you stealing his thunder.   :lol

I passed the torch to PBJ.  I got tired of being called Peale's sidekick.  (He's my sidekick!)
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: Malenko on May 28, 2010, 02:04:40 pm

I also think it is funny that you defend you stance by posting a link to the game for what is still 3X your offer. Yay you.  :notworthy:


good call, here it is for 5

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mortal-Kombat-vs-DC-Universe-Xbox-360-/150446806584?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item2307541638 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Mortal-Kombat-vs-DC-Universe-Xbox-360-/150446806584?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item2307541638)


Not even close. :P


That is not a buy it now auction, and it still has 23+ hours to go. There is no way it goes for that price. ;)


ok, so only a completed auction...

$9.99
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mortal-Kombat-vs-DC-Universe-Xbox-360-2008-/280511777073?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item414fce0931 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Mortal-Kombat-vs-DC-Universe-Xbox-360-2008-/280511777073?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item414fce0931)

$10.45
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mortal-Kombat-vs-DC-Universe-Xbox-360-2008-/360263170389?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item53e15bb955 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Mortal-Kombat-vs-DC-Universe-Xbox-360-2008-/360263170389?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item53e15bb955)

$10.71
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mortal-Kombat-vs-DC-Universe-Xbox-360-2008-/110534273798?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item19bc5b2b06 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Mortal-Kombat-vs-DC-Universe-Xbox-360-2008-/110534273798?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item19bc5b2b06)

$11.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mortal-Kombat-vs-DC-Universe-Xbox-360-2008-/180508182624?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item2a07204860 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Mortal-Kombat-vs-DC-Universe-Xbox-360-2008-/180508182624?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item2a07204860)

point being, its not worth $25
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: versapak on May 28, 2010, 02:15:15 pm
point being, its not worth $25


I never said it was worth $25.

I was only pointing out what it costs to go INTO A STORE and buy it used, and my only point was that HarumaN was low balling him and that it was worth more than $5. Also, every one of those auction prices you listed are incorrect, because every single one of them has a shipping fee as well. The cheapest one of those went for $13, the rest were all about $15.

Again that is 3 times the offered price.

;)



Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: syph007 on May 28, 2010, 02:20:23 pm
Used 360's dont have much value when you can regularly buy NEW ones for 150, that will be jasper or better.  For an old used one, I'd expect maybe 80 + (5 to 10) for each game.   I had a friend who listed all his 360 gams as separate auctions all starting at 99 cents.  Half got no bids, premium ones sold for maybe 15, most went for 3-7 bucks.

So 300 for what you have is too high.   Half that would be a fair price.
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: Malenko on May 28, 2010, 02:49:13 pm
Again that is 3 times the offered price.

;)

Naww, he didnt say 5 shipped. See:
I'd pay $5 for that MK vs DC
ok, I'll play your game again. We'll take this auction:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mortal-Kombat-vs-DC-Universe-Xbox-360-2008-/280511777073?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item414fce0931 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Mortal-Kombat-vs-DC-Universe-Xbox-360-2008-/280511777073?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item414fce0931)

$12.98 shipped. Seller had to pay listing fees and worry about bad seller feedback account suspension,etc . Assuming $2.99 is the right price for shipping, Haruman is offering $8.99 shipped, which is about 70% of the ebay auction, not 30% and I still say hes offering too much.

The only bad thing about your comparison again is that the only place you can really buy used games is gamestop and their price shouldnt dictate value. Ultimately its value is what someone is willing to pay for it, and unless you are willing to offer more then 5, then he shouldnt think its worth more then that.
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: spacegoogie on May 28, 2010, 03:51:27 pm
 :laugh2: Oh man you guys are too much. Yes the harddrive is included. My 360 is in perfect condition, No smokers in the house I was the only person that every touched it. (my 2 year old could not even reach it.)
Any way thanks for all you posts, I've had fun reading them. I will have to let you guys know what I end up selling it for. :cheers:
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: Malenko on May 28, 2010, 04:24:35 pm
:laugh2: Oh man you guys are too much. Yes the harddrive is included. My 360 is in perfect condition, No smokers in the house I was the only person that every touched it. (my 2 year old could not even reach it.)
Any way thanks for all you posts, I've had fun reading them. I will have to let you guys know what I end up selling it for. :cheers:

funny posts is all we're good for, some, not even that.

like I siad, besta luck.
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: versapak on May 28, 2010, 04:40:56 pm
Again that is 3 times the offered price.

;)

Naww, he didnt say 5 shipped. See:
I'd pay $5 for that MK vs DC
ok, I'll play your game again. We'll take this auction:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mortal-Kombat-vs-DC-Universe-Xbox-360-2008-/280511777073?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item414fce0931 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Mortal-Kombat-vs-DC-Universe-Xbox-360-2008-/280511777073?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item414fce0931)

$12.98 shipped. Seller had to pay listing fees and worry about bad seller feedback account suspension,etc . Assuming $2.99 is the right price for shipping, Haruman is offering $8.99 shipped, which is about 70% of the ebay auction, not 30% and I still say hes offering too much.

The only bad thing about your comparison again is that the only place you can really buy used games is gamestop and their price shouldnt dictate value. Ultimately its value is what someone is willing to pay for it, and unless you are willing to offer more then 5, then he shouldnt think its worth more then that.


What do you mean you'll play my game?

This is clearly your game.

I said what it could be found for IN THE STORE.

$5 is a low ball offer. <=PERIOD

Is the game worth $25? No, I don't think so, but then I also don't think it is worth $5.

Can you find it cheaper online? Of course you can. You ALWAYS can.

It wasn't my point. My only point was that $5 was a low offer, and you can see that by looking at how much it sells on average anywhere. Can you get lucky on ebay? Of course, but even the lowest price you dug up was more than the offer, even with listing fees. http://pages.ebay.com/HELP/SELL/fees.html#if_auction (http://pages.ebay.com/HELP/SELL/fees.html#if_auction)

Go ahead and argue with me on this all you want, but for you to honestly say that $5 is a fair offer, then you'd be an ass.






Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: Malenko on May 28, 2010, 06:31:31 pm
You're comparing an online purchase, him selling his game online via craigslist/here , to buying it in a store. Apples to Oranges. I show you other online purchases, Apples to Apples. Hell NEW the game is only $30. Yeah, he could possibly get a few dollars more for it, and I don't think 5 plus shipping for THAT game is a low-ball. There's about 20 auctions that ended for around 14 shipped, so its just slightly below what others were willing to pay. If he said 5 shipped, then yeah, low-ball city.

sorry for the derail, but it was god times. Now I see the light, using ebgames/gamestop as a price guide you are sellignt his for way too big of a loss. Im sure versapak would agreee that youre stuff is obviously worth the...


xbox360 = 160
20 gb HD = 50
lips = 28
GH3 = 5
wireless guitar = 20
you're in the movies = 20
saints row= 10
saints row 2 = 18
scene it =10
scene it controllers = 15
scene it box office smash = 15
pop cap vol 1 = 15
burn out revenge = 20
MK vs DC = 25
beautiful katamari = 28
MKA = 18
MKD = 8
burnout 3 = 10
NFSMW = 10
FNR2 = 5

*uses calc*

a total of $490 that eb sells it for lol. really, I digress. take care, I'll be here all week!

EDIT: forgot to mention, I only listed completed actions that actually had a bidder. there were quite a few with buy it nows of $12.99 to 29.99 (lol) that ended without a bidder.
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: versapak on May 28, 2010, 08:03:47 pm
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah


Wow...

Seriously...

How incredibly dense are you?

You keep talking about EB. Why?


I mentioned that one price because it was one that I checked quite easily. Since then, you are the only one bringing it up.

The ONLY reason I brought it up was talking about the fact that $5 was a low ball offer. Something in fact that you have proved countless times over with your own examples. Are the ebay examples the same as EB? No, of course not, but the results are overwhelmingly the ******* same. What are those results?

?

?

?

$5 is a low ball offer.

I couldn't care less if it is 1/3 the price or 1/5. The point is very much the same, and all you are proving is that you are a  :tool:.

Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: Malenko on May 29, 2010, 07:20:08 am
not really, Im just pushin your buttons, lol
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: Thenasty on May 29, 2010, 10:01:26 am
 :lol :lol

bringing my post count +1
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: northerngames on May 29, 2010, 02:10:56 pm
(http://i39.tinypic.com/23m7tjd.jpg)
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: SNAAKE on May 29, 2010, 03:38:53 pm
(http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/3151/colbert.gif)
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: syph007 on May 29, 2010, 03:41:24 pm
(http://comic-mint.com/media/client/0653_homer-eating-popcorn-small-c7873.JPG)
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: shateredsoul on May 29, 2010, 04:48:04 pm
poor guy.. he just wanted to sell his game.

It's one thing helping someone out, but when someone doesn't want your help then IMO that makes you a self righteous --I'm attempting to get by the auto-censor and should be beaten after I re-read the rules--

so, the best advice we can give him is, look up the prices on ebay.. see what sells and for how much and get an idea based off of that.  It's harder to sell things as bundles sometimes, so you may indeed want to consider selling things separately. If someone offers you $5 when you can see online the game is going $20 new, or 15 used.. respond with $10.

People WILL low ball you  on craigslist, it's just part of the game. Consider if there's something you need that you may be able to trade for, sometimes you get better deals that way.  (i.e. if you need some tools to build a cab or something). Don't be afraid to say no to an offer. 

If you sell on ebay keep in mind that you don't get all the profit, ebay takes about 10% and you have to decide whether you will offer free shipping or not.

Whatever you do, don't sell to anything to game stores.

$300 does seem like a bit much to me, try it.. if that doesn't work try 270, if not then 250.  IMO you shouldn't go below 250 for the set.. selling separately might work out best.





Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: saint on May 30, 2010, 09:52:39 am
:soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox:
:soapbox: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :soapbox:
:soapbox: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :soapbox:
:soapbox: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :soapbox:
:soapbox: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :soapbox:
:soapbox: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :soapbox:
 :soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox:
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: Franco B on May 30, 2010, 02:48:23 pm
Very creative Saint, me likeys  :D
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: Havok on June 01, 2010, 03:06:21 pm
(http://4gifs.com/gallery/d/27659-3/KidSuckerPunch.gif)
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: northerngames on June 02, 2010, 09:57:11 am
 :laugh2: I love how he tries for 2 more on the way down lol.
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: opt2not on June 02, 2010, 03:22:35 pm
Hahaha, full wind-up square on the nose!
Kids are awesome!

also, that video was shot just about 18 years ago! Classic.
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: reptileink on June 05, 2010, 02:50:24 pm
Just to add to this....

I sold a BRAND NEW IN BOX XBOX Elite that came with 2 games, brand new Avatar game, and 3 other used games(one be Modern Warfare) for about $350 a few months ago....so a bit high, but not unreasonable...
Title: Re: Selling my Xbox360 w/ games. Is the Price Right?
Post by: RayB on June 05, 2010, 04:58:30 pm
The thing about used Xboxes is the risk of RROD. So most people either want it dirt cheap, or they want new with warranty. They just fail way too much.