The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Woodworking => Topic started by: RandomCitizenX on April 19, 2010, 03:44:06 pm
-
I am in the process of gearing up for my first cab build and I realized I don't know if I should be using MDF or Plywood. Can anyone please enlighten me over the strengths and weeknesses of each beyond the information on the wiki?
-
Plywood is stronger and lighter and no "crawl", MDF has "crawl" (it deforms permanent under a load).
MDF is great to paint or to laminate
Plywood is good to laminate, less suitable for painting
Either is fine, if you think they made the original cabs of even a crappier material than these two (chipboard).
-
Plywood is stronger and lighter and no "crawl", MDF has "crawl" (it deforms permanent under a load).
MDF is great to paint or to laminate
Plywood is good to laminate, less suitable for painting
Either is fine, if you think they made the original cabs of even a crappier material than these two (chipboard).
+1. MDF also creates A TON of dust when cutting! Clean up is a b!tch and breathing the stuff isn't all that great either.
-
Don't forget MDO plywood. Lightness of plywood and similar paper face for easy paining.
-
My vote would be for MDO, I used it on the sides of my cab and it worked out great. It is a little more costly and sometimes hard to find. I had to special order mine from the local Lowes.
-
I'm in the same boat right now. The MDO is twice as expensive as the MDF, but I like the idea of it being more solid than MDF. I've seen how bookshelves sag, and I just don't want to risk that happening to my hard built cabinet (my first wood project outside of shop class 20 years ago). Plus, I like the idea that MDO can handle moisture better - on top of it being lighter.
Any word on if MDO is any more difficult to cut than MDF?
-
This is also my first cab and I was in the same boat last week.
First I knew my cab will be moved around from my garage to my office then into our 'kick back room' (Kick back room is not yet completed).
So I needed less weight and high durability.
I weighed the two
MDF Downsides (for me):
Weight
Durability during moving
Splitting
The dust: MDF Dust scares the be-jesus out of me when routing or sanding etc, (resin. glues, and urea-formaldeydes.)
Gums up my tools
Downside on the Ply (for me):
Cost-about $13 more a sheet
I went with the 3/4 Birch Plywood which worked out well since my plans got modified to smaller footprint.
-
The dust: MDF Dust scares the be-jesus out of me when routing or sanding etc, (resin. glues, and urea-formaldeydes.)
Come on, don't be a sissyboy. Man has to train its protective mechanisms now and then. If MDF routing is your dayjob, be scared. For your once in a lifetime cab, shutTFup and eat some dust!
-
The dust: MDF Dust scares the be-jesus out of me when routing or sanding etc, (resin. glues, and urea-formaldeydes.)
Come on, don't be a sissyboy. Man has to train its protective mechanisms now and then. If MDF routing is your dayjob, be scared. For your once in a lifetime cab, shutTFup and eat some dust!
Plus, when you blow your nose, you can use it to fill the holes left by the screwheads.
Just spend $30 on a decent respirator and you won't have any issues beyond cleanup. You'll be finding MDF dust in things for a month.
-
Plus, when you blow your nose, you can use it to fill the holes left by the screwheads.
:laugh2:
-
I used plywood for 2 reasons, the weight and the fact that MDF is nasty to work with, unless you plan on doing all the work outdoors.
-
yesterday, i used some nice plywood for the first time over mdf.
uh wow. its about 10000x easier. For one, the weight is SO much lighter. it makes things like cutting a big 4x8 sheet so much easier.
The cleanup was also so much better.
I got the sheets for $40 compared to $25ish for mdf. Worth the difference plus my blades/bits will last longer
-
I use 3/4 inch ply myself. It can take weight way better and also takes a beating well!
I know it can be quite expensive like in Ireland from a retailer you can expect to pay up to and between €42-€52 per sheet.
If you know anyone who works with ply like a builder or carpenter ask them to get you a trade price or when they are buying materials for a job which will save you a lot of cash that can be used else where and on other things for your project ;D
-
Can you route MDO? I'm considering going with MDO for my cabinet, but I will need to route a bit for my CP.
-
For my first cabinet, I went with 3/4" MDF. It's very easy to work with, however the weight is a bit problematic. I think it used about 3 sheets of MDF for a full size 4 player cab. If you can find 5/8" I'd go with that...
Not sure what I would use on another one. I really like the finish on the the painted MDF and it's holding up quite well. I was looking at Panolam for some kitchen cabinets I was looking at building, maybe I'll try that next time. It was fairly expensive, at least compared to the regular malamine sheets.
-
Plywood weighs so much less than MDF that is reason enough to use it, especially when wielding a 4x8 sheet. Plus plywood can hold your screws much better than mdf.
-
Plus plywood can hold your screws much better than mdf.
Screw screws! Glue is the new screw. Easier finishing also.
-
I was just calling around to get some numbers for MDO, and I was chatting with one of the sales reps and asked him what he'd recommend as an alternative to MDO as far as getting a smooth finish, in addition to the normal advantages of Plywood, and he suggested Birch or Maple plywood. Anyone used something like that? How well did the paint look? Would you still recommend some sort of veneer? Also, how well in an indoor environment would Birch or Maple hold up compared to MDO? I understand that MDO is nearly impenetrable and good with moisture, would I have similar luck with the Birch/Maple? I really want this to be a solid cabinet.
-
Birch has the finest grain, but it still is nowhere as smooth as MDF. Never paint it directly, unless you want grain-looks. Not to mention the problems with edges connecting 2 faces non tapered.
-
I just built mine with MDO, and I can't say enough about it. It was so great to work with. Build gallery here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/26363567@N07/sets/72157623907409479/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26363567@N07/sets/72157623907409479/)
I'm not sure I buy the supreme water resistance thing, but I'm sure there are differences between types and grades. It's certainly smooth though, and it was easy to sand wood filler flush to it.
-
I guess I'm going to have to check into the MDO thing...never heard of it but it sounds great.
MDF or Plywood for me is simple, I prefer MDF for all my projects...arcade cab or not. MDF is easier to finish, unless you pay extra for sandply. I don't generally mind the added weight of MDF. In fact, when I created my bartop, I thought having a little extra weight would be a good thing as I didn't want an animated player to be able to shift the thing while playing.
MDF dust is no big deal, you don't need an expensive respirator either. I bought some cheap masks...and if you get a router with a vac attachment...there isn't much dust to begin with.
Jouster
-
Hi everyone:
I just finished my first cab made out of MDF - it was fine but I'd use ply if I was going to build another one - the dust was nasty!
Stuart
-
Yeah mdf has a lot of dust, luckily I built my cab outside so it wasn't too bad since my backyard is mostly grass and dirt.
-
Yeah mdf has a lot of dust, luckily I built my cab outside so it wasn't too bad since my backyard is mostly grass and dirt.
Isn't everyone's yard mostly grass and dirt? What else would it be? :)
On topic: I prefer MDF. Dusty, yes, heavy, yes, splits easily, yes. All fairly significant downsides. But it is sooooo easy to finish, and the edges are even acceptable as finished surfaces when treated properly. I think of MDF as modeling clay - I can make all sorts of weird intricate shapes out of it and it always cooperates.
Eric.
-
I would definatly use plywood if was going to laminate it for a perfect finish.
still mdf is great for painting, sands with ease and is quite nice to work with :)
-
either of the above materials mentioned.
both will work just as well as each other , but if you use plywood , you can use a kreg jig and
pocket hole all your joinery instead of gluing. its fast , its strong and no outer filling needs to be done as
all the screws are internal.
just dont try and pocket hole mdf in the same way , it cant take screws as good as plywood can.
mdf is king of the hill for arcade cabs though.
use melamine faced mdf and you wont have to paint anything. check my vids , i didnt have to paint any of the main cab .
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=103919.0 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=103919.0)
-
Hey, I'm starting my first arcade cabinet. I want to Home Depot and tried picking up MDF, but man is that stuff heavy. I almost threw my back out lifting it. So, I've decided to go with MDO, since it's lighter and I can paint on it, but I can't find the thing anywhere. I've called local lumbar stores, but none of them carry/heard of it. Anyone know a place that carries it in the Dallas/North Texas area?
-
MDF is much more stable. Unless you use good quality baltic birch ply, most plywood sold today will warp severely if not cut and assembled within a day or 2 of being puchased, provided you can find flat plywood to start with. If you seal and paint your MDF, you really shouldn't have any moisture problems.
-
I was about to ask this same question, I am only doing a CP and possiably a new bezel and marquee so i think the wait difference alone is enough reason for me to go with Ply but im not sure about not being able to paint it, the CP and Bezel wouldnt be a problem but maybe with the marquee we shall see i guess, and I swear when I looked at it today Ply was cheaper but I may have been mistaken
-
If you are going to use laminate i think it does not matter what you use. I've used OSB.... i would not advise that. But now i know. It's fine but it chips fast and weighs a ton. And water is the enemy, once you have water on OSB you are done for so i am using primer on it before laminating hoping this will keep water out.
Same is for MDF, water is not good for mdf. Plywood is much better resistant againt water.
-
I'm planning on using MDF on a full-size cab build, because I'm planning on painting my cab rather than using laminate on it. I need to be sure the finish is perfect, as it will likely be fire-engine red, and for that, I like MDF. You can't beat the smooth surface for taking paint, especially if you've properly prepped every nook and cranny of your build.
-
MDO is awesome to work with. I'm using it on the Project Arcade 2 cabinet, and having built with both MDF and MDO now MDO is the way to go. I had to special order it though, and it's expensive, but it's got all the benefits of MDF and plywood without the drawbacks. It was straight as a board, no warping. Smooth sides. Lighter than MDF. Much less dust when cutting/routing the wood.
-
So... the winning order:
1) MDO
2) Plywood
3) MDF
4) OSB
-
So... the winning order:
1) MDO
2) Plywood
3) MDF
4) OSB
Well, the originals all used number 5: particleboard.
-
OSB ??
really ? that is one sheet material i would never dream of putting on a list for a cab.
im not trying to prove anyone wrong here but using osb as a material for building a cab is downright silly.
osb is used for the bulding of new houses , i.e - its used primarily for sheeting over floor board's for attics
and also for panelling off large sections.
it was designed to have the same rigidity or better than plywood , but be cheaper and lighter.
they have achieved this by glueing layers of thin wood strips.
osb is not arcade cab friendly. it does not have a smooth surface ( in fact its completely rippled everywhere ) and
isnt exactly laminate friendly ( it'll attach alright , but the finish will be lumpy in parts ).
i wouldnt even trust it to hold t-moulding correctly.
-
MDF - I still use it, and yes the dust is nasty, but the worse thing is how quickly it dulls your tools. I probably get 50% less (total out of ---my bottom---, don't quote me on it guess) usable life out of a router bit or hole cutter when used on MDF, as compared to other products. That's a 'hidden' cost I didn't count on when I did my first cab.
-
OSB ??
really ? that is one sheet material i would never dream of putting on a list for a cab.
im not trying to prove anyone wrong here but using osb as a material for building a cab is downright silly.
osb is used for the bulding of new houses , i.e - its used primarily for sheeting over floor board's for attics
and also for panelling off large sections.
it was designed to have the same rigidity or better than plywood , but be cheaper and lighter.
they have achieved this by glueing layers of thin wood strips.
osb is not arcade cab friendly. it does not have a smooth surface ( in fact its completely rippled everywhere ) and
isnt exactly laminate friendly ( it'll attach alright , but the finish will be lumpy in parts ).
i wouldnt even trust it to hold t-moulding correctly.
I think people say OSB when they might mean PB. I'll be trying out melamine PB on my upcoming build. I don't see it used a lot on these forums. Cheap and no need to paint, but it does have its downsides.
-
" I think people say OSB when they might mean PB. I'll be trying out melamine PB on my upcoming build. I don't see it used a lot on these forums. Cheap and no need to paint, but it does have its downsides. "
somehow i dont think so :)
i really cant see how particle board can be confused with osb. but regardless , even it is was a genuine mis match of sheet material / mistake , let me say that osb should not , and never be used as a material for building a cab. all you need is 1 person to read the above list and think , " well , its listed on the best site in the world for building cabs , so it must be a good material to use " . well im saying its not and to keep away from it.
secondly, i am pleading with you not to use particle board. its dirt cheap for a reason and you'll be sorry you used it.
spend an extra 30 bucks / euro's / pounds etc etc , on melamine faced mdf and you wont look back. im telling you as a woodworker and
also as somebody who has experience in all materials , please do not use pb. use mdf / plywood or mdo.
im sure every other cab builder here will agree with me.
check out my videos in this section, its exactly what you want to do ( not paint a cab ).
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=103919.0 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=103919.0)
-
secondly, i am pleading with you not to use particle board. its dirt cheap for a reason and you'll be sorry you used it.
I'm with LJ here. I bought a sheet of melamine covered particle board for a desk in my home office, and even with very sharp tools and taped edges, every edge I cut chipped out, so when I used the edging that glued on, you could still see the rough edges. Go MDF at the very least. You can't go wrong spending a little more for the right stuff.
-
Well... i mean OSB as in Oriented Strand Board wich i use in this project:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=103777.0 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=103777.0)
And comments about it being more light as plywood is not true. It weighs even more than MDF. But then again it's not that bad. I will fill the holdes and little cracks first then primer it, and then laminate it. yes more work but i will not take it apart anymore since it's not that bad. If the t-molding will suck i will change the sidepanels.
-
Regarding slot cutting, are there any issues with doing the slots for t-molding in plywood?
-
yes, i know what osb is , and i still say its not suitable.
but im not saying this to dis-hearten you or anything. if you want to use it , by all means do. i just dont want others to read through
this thread and think osb will work well as a material for building a cab . i'd prefer them to use mdf or plywood because it has the best
properties suitable for the project.
as for the whole " osb is lighter / heavier " debate , well, it is and it isnt.
there are different grades of plywood , some light and some heavy ( marine ply for instance is heavy ) and there are also
different grades of osb. depending on where you get either material ( us , canada or euro ) and what grade it is, there will be a difference in the + or - in the density and or weight. but i still stand by what i said above as they are constantly making changes to osb to make it stronger and lighter within the manufacturing process.
either way, the weight of the material shouldnt be an issue. i would prefer using the heaviest material available ( as long as its not osb :) )
but i have no idea why peeps want to use the lightest stuff they can get. when it makes more sense to build a cab that can take
some punishment and or take the weight of a full grown adult leaning on it.
i do wish you the best on the cab your building tho , because its going to be that bit harder to finish the side panels.
-
Regarding slot cutting, are there any issues with doing the slots for t-molding in plywood?
yes. unfortunately.
depends highly on what plywood you are using, but if there are any gaps in the plywood, this will have a reduced holding power
on the t-moulding as there isnt any material to hold the t-moulding in place. google " gappy plywood " or something similar to see what i mean.
the largest gap ive ever seen in plwood measured in at 5 inches ( and ive heard of larger ) , but the plywood type was " shuttering ply " ( cheap stuff ).
but alot of people get caught out thinking any plywood will do. well, it wont. you need to spend good money on good plywood.
i wasnt taking any chances and i opted for mdf. which i still think is the best cab material you can buy.
-
:banghead:
I think people say OSB when they might mean PB. I'll be trying out melamine PB on my upcoming build. I don't see it used a lot on these forums. Cheap and no need to paint, but it does have its downsides.
:timebomb:
My apologies for clicking the quote button LJ. Now that I look again it clearly looks like I was responding to you personally. I was interjecting a thought which had its genesis in reading your post. I definitely wasn't trying to tell you what OSB was. And PB is certainly not the panultimate material.
*sigh*
-
@The Lumberjackass well i never meant to say that OSB is any good. I would NEVER choose that material again. But all other wood was out of stock that time. So anyone reading this never choose OSB. It's crappy, it will mean a lot of extra work.
-
hehe , no worries push2 :)
i understand completely where your coming from ;D
and xnif , i know you werent saying it is a good material to use.
( well, for its designed purpose , yes, its a good material , but cab building , no )
its just gonna break your heart trying to get it to look right , and for that you have my utmost hope that you succeed in making it work.
if all else fails , and i know its not something you'd like to do , but starting over with mdf again could make your build go faster overall ( less time filling , smoothing , problem solving ).
but as i say, its completely up to you with how you want your project and its direction to go. but if you do need some help or advice, the whole community is here behind you ;D
-
I'm still going to use Melamine PB for my cab. ;D It is a really interesting material. A while back I purchased a length of melamine PB (closet shelf) for 6 dollars to experiment with. Reading about it on the internet I knew it would not cut nicely with a circular saw. I took a router to it and it shapes beautifully. I can get a really clean edge on it. (I'm pretty sure Northcoast Custom Arcades and the like CNC cut Melamine PB) I also finish nailed and glued (polyurethane construction adhesive) an L frame piece with a baton. I'm 220 and it could hold my full weight. (Actually it could hold 250. I was carrying my son when I did the stress test.) I'm actually impressed so far. I found a cabinet supply place where I can get the color and grade that I want. I had actually inquired about melamine MDF/HDF. It was a no go. I can't find any supplier within a hundred miles that has anything like that.
I'll be starting a build thread in a couple of weeks. We'll see how it goes.
-
wow, im pretty surprised that you cant get melamine faced mdf :o
its as common as muck over here :) but it is expensive , 30 euro per sheet.
but i suppose PB will suffice for you if there isnt any other material available . and yes, good man, your using your head , a router cuts cleaner and doesnt produce any chip out at all ;) . i did all my cuts with a festool ts55 and then used a router to shape it into its final form.
lovely smooth edges ;D
-
I used a combination of MDF and ply mostly because MDO was hard to come by in our town. I will tell you that MDF is definitely a mess, but I don't use it for load bearing (cab has a 2x4 superstructure). I would definitely fight to find MDO where you can and if you get ply, make sure it's good because I've bought some bad/warped ply that really disappointed.