Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: DashRendar on March 08, 2010, 10:53:26 am
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Had a couple of questions I wanted to toss out there regarding monitor burn-in.
The cab I picked up has a little burn-in (around the edges, where the static text is for most of the time).
What exactly is burn-in? Let me rephrase that- I know in general what it is, but not why it is. What causes the images to stay on the screen- and most importantly, is there any way to clear burn-in off a screen?
Finally, is this a CRT thing only, or do LCDs and Plasma screens also suffer from burn-in?
:dunno
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I think burn-in is permanent... the phosphors inside the screen are altered forever, no way to undo.
I seem to to remember early plasmas being susceptible to burn-in.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_burn-in (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_burn-in)
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Hmm, it seems like this is a problem that MUST have a solution...
...Beyond just tossing out the whole monitor and buying a new one.
:banghead:
Do we have any engineers in the BYOAC community that know if this has been looked into?
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You can't get rid of burn.
You could keep the chassis if you get rid of the tube though.
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In the collector community, the common solutions are to either live with the burn (easier if the burn is from the same game the monitor is currently installed in), replace the monitor entirely, or do a "tube swap" where (typically) you pull a matching tube from an old tv and replace only the tube portion of the monitor. There is no "repair the burn" solution.
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+1 on the tube swap solution. With the dozens of free 19 and 25" TV's on CL these days, the chances of getting your hands on a tube that could work are pretty good.
What model monitor do you have? Perhaps we can help you with cross referencing to old TV's that are good tube donors?
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Thanks smalltownguy- my monitor is a Polo 25.
I hate to say it, but I think if I did a tube swap, I might as well swap out the whole thing. :dunno
The burn-in is slightly noticeable, but not as bad as I've seen in some cases. This was a dedicated Blitz game, but I intend this monitor to be used for MAME. I'm curious how the faint burn-in will affect the picture on different games.
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If the burn is faint, then I'd just get some smoked plexi and call it a day.
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Has anyone tried the "solid color" trick? I read about this in a TV forum where bars had burned in the sides of a widescreen TV from 4:3 broadcasts. A solid white image was left onscreen for a day or more to even out the burn.
It doesn't alleviate burn damage, but is intended to even the level of the burn out across the monitor. No idea if it actually works.
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My old plasma TV had a screen cleaner like that. It would get rid of any image retention, but don't know if it would help with actual burn-in.
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Does anyone know of a database where TV tubes that'll fit our monitor chassis are listed? I have a (very slight) burn in my Nanao MS9, and I would like to find a replacement tube, but the hassle of measuring Yoke and whatnot has kept me from further pursuit. There's also curvature etc to add to the equation.
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I know I saw a partial list posted somewhere, but I'll be damned if I remember where ... :banghead:
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This chart lists a few models with replacement possibilities...
http://www.junknet.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=121&Itemid=121 (http://www.junknet.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=121&Itemid=121)
Not exhaustive, but definitely a good place to start.
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Another: http://www.vidiot.ca/montube.php (http://www.vidiot.ca/montube.php)
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Cheers fellas!
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Another: http://www.vidiot.ca/montube.php (http://www.vidiot.ca/montube.php)
That's where I saw it ... tks.
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You can theoretically clear screen burn by "reverse burning" the monitor with a pattern that exactly matches the opposite of what's burned in. In practice, doing so is impossible: you'll just end up with an even more objectionable pattern since you won't get it lined up perfectly, and it would take forever anyway. Either live with it, replace the monitor, or swap tubes.
Solid colors or "static" won't help. All it will really do is evenly wear the whole CRT even further resulting in a dimmer display that still has about the same level of burn.
Plasmas can be very susceptible to burn, even more so than direct view CRT. Early sets especially were bad. Modern sets have better pixel oribters and some even share the gasses between multiple cells. It's still quite possible to burn them, though, especially in high-duty monitor applications like arcade games. Every arcade game I've seen with a Plasma, even modern ones that are less than a year old, have pretty noticeable burn-in.
"Static" can help eliminate non-permanent "retention" on plasma displays. I don't recall the physics behind it, but it does work. Permanent burn (phosphor degradation) won't be fixed by this.
Rear-projection CRT is probably the worst when it comes to burn. Fortunately, these aren't very common anymore.
LCD is not generally susceptible to burn-in. In extreme cases, UV from the CCFL backlight can slightly discolor the polarizer on the front in white spots. Improperly driven LCDs can sustain a burn-like effect to the panel itself due to crystal damage. This is especially common on STN gray displays like supermarket credit-card terminals, but most TVs and computer monitors seem to get it reasonably right, though some models have excessive overdrive in order to attain quick response time to eliminate ghosting (these also typically have lots of lag).
For home use, if you set the display properly, you won't burn it any time in the next several (dozen, probably) years. If you crank the contrast sky-high (sadly, this is often the default), you might get some problems if you use it a lot.
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You can theoretically clear screen burn by "reverse burning" the monitor with a pattern that exactly matches the opposite of what's burned in. In practice, doing so is impossible: you'll just end up with an even more objectionable pattern since you won't get it lined up perfectly, and it would take forever anyway. Either live with it, replace the monitor, or swap tubes.
If you are planning to throw it out, then I would say to try the reverse image for the sake of experimenting.
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take monitor and hold upside down, shake it around like a etch a sketch.
Just kidding I saw that here once before and I still find it funny :lol
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My mp3 player has burn in where the song's progress bar is located. LCD's can burn in too...
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You can theoretically clear screen burn by "reverse burning" the monitor with a pattern that exactly matches the opposite of what's burned in. In practice, doing so is impossible: you'll just end up with an even more objectionable pattern since you won't get it lined up perfectly, and it would take forever anyway. Either live with it, replace the monitor, or swap tubes.
Absolute rubbish...
If you are planning to throw it out, then I would say to try the reverse image for the sake of experimenting.
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You can theoretically clear screen burn by "reverse burning" the monitor with a pattern that exactly matches the opposite of what's burned in. In practice, doing so is impossible: you'll just end up with an even more objectionable pattern since you won't get it lined up perfectly, and it would take forever anyway. Either live with it, replace the monitor, or swap tubes.
Absolute rubbish...
If you are planning to throw it out, then I would say to try the reverse image for the sake of experimenting.
First he can't find the "New" icon and now he's lost his quote-fu. Just look at what KLOV (or perhaps age) has done to Frizz. :'(
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It's been a long day/morning...
:D
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If you want to try the reverse burn trick, here's the only way I can think of to do it that could even remotely possibly yield useful results. You'll need the original source for exactly what was on the screen, and DO NOT MESS WITH THE CONTROLS. Grab a video inverter and hook it inline. Run the monitor for about as long as it took to burn things in. You can attempt to accelerate the process some by cranking up the contrast, but that will make it bloom which would ruin the "reverse" effect. If you're really, really lucky, you'll end up with a substantially dimmer tube that has little in the way of burn.
Note it will still be dim. Effectively, you're burning the whole thing in equally. It will also take a LONG time. It still probably won't work very well since the spot sizes will be different due to the higher average brightness and component aging. You'll probably just end up accentuating the edges of the burn artifacts. This might work a little better on a Plasma since it has discrete pixels.
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already mentioned but, tinted glass/plexi is the most cost effective fix (unless you can get a tube for free to swap)
Ive seen some pretty ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- up displays look pretty good behind a piece of tinted glass.
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Yes, tinted glass/plexi is effective if the game has mostly dark screens. Burn will still be evident on full white screens or when bright areas overlap the burned areas. This often happens when a monitor is repurposed from one game to another. Of course, suitably re-purposing a monitor can also solve this very problem :)
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I was going to add (as well) the reverse burn in as a possible way to do it, but I got beaten to it.
One more idea that may be cool for an experiment: print out a transparency that has the pattern on it in reverse and stick it on top of the screen at exactly the right place. It would require a bit of testing and work, but it "could" work. Prolly better to just live with it or replace the tube tho.