The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls

Main => Project Announcements => Topic started by: javeryh on March 23, 2021, 04:05:38 pm

Title: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on March 23, 2021, 04:05:38 pm
Now that my last cabinet is 99% finished and I've been playing it daily for over a month it's time to start the next one so I can continue the streak of never actually finishing something 100%.  I absolutely love the form factor of the Tully cabaret so I'm going to build another.... and another!  I have no more room in my house but I still have the itch to build so these are both going to end up as Christmas gifts for my nieces/nephews.  Wife is on board so that's a plus.

Project features:

I am undecided on the guts.  With Ond's help, I'm going to see if I can get a dedicated MAME set-up working on a Raspberry Pi 4 with a minimal front end.  If this ends up not working I'll probably go with a 60-in-1.  This needs to be almost idiot proof since I'll be 4+ hours away and not able to fix something if someone screws up a setting.  The kids range in age from 5-14 and have not been exposed to arcade games before except when they visit, which has been a while since the whole pandemic.

Another goal is to have each machine come in between $400 and $500 in total cost.  Going to be tight.  I already cut two side panels and should have the other two cut by the end of the week.  I made a pattern out of 1/4" material and that makes quick work of things... which would be even quicker if my blades were sharp.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210323/4e01256350177a9b63a9aeed36c9beaa.jpg)

As you can see in the pic, I'm not breaking the front into two separate panels like last time so this will really look like a Tully when finished.  This is to keep things as easy as possible.  Less interior panels to cut this time.  Going to be kind of weird building two at the same time but should be fun.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: thomas_surles on March 23, 2021, 04:08:30 pm
 :applaud: :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Mike A on March 23, 2021, 06:48:39 pm
Dang. 4-500 hundred bucks for a Christmas gift.
What do I have to do to call you uncle Javeryh?

I have gifted bartops I built to 3 different families. They all really love them. All 3 insisted on bartops against my advice. All 3 now wish they would have allowed me to build a cabaret.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: yotsuya on March 23, 2021, 08:22:38 pm
Cool! Keeping an eye on this!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: vertexguy on March 23, 2021, 08:45:43 pm
Nice!  Love more Javery build threads.  You gotta at least finish off that bartop though.  The finish is in sight!  :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on March 24, 2021, 07:24:55 am
Now that my last cabinet is 99% finished and I've been playing it daily for over a month it's time to start the next one so I can continue the streak of never actually finishing something 100%. 

I believe that it can be proven mathematically that home arcade cabs are never 100% completed. They can *approach* 100% and get very close, the difference can become increasingly small, but they never quite get there. Bit like exceeding the speed of light, just not possible according to Einstein.
Title: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on March 25, 2021, 06:52:46 pm
Thanks guys.  Iím pretty excited about these.  I cut side panel #3 today and Iíll do #4 tomorrow.  Each one only takes about 45 minutes with the pattern. 

Then itís off to Home Depot for some 1/2Ē material for the inside panels and some battons for the inside corners.  Each cabinet only needs 6 interior panels (all 18Ē wide) so hopefully it will go quickly.  Only piece that needs any real attention is the front panel with the 3 cutouts for the marquee/speakers/coin door.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on April 04, 2021, 02:24:13 pm
The weather has not been cooperating the last week or so.  Yesterday I was finally able to cut out the last side panel and if I can get through Easter dinner quick enough I'm going to route out the t-molding slots.  Now I've started to think about the front panel and what that is going to look like.  Marquee location is obvious but I also want cutouts for a coin door and some speakers. 

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=387234;image)

So I think my choices are to either offset the coin door and put the speaker cutout next to it or to center the coin door under the marquee and then center a speaker cutout under that.  In both scenarios I envision a rectangular speaker grill covering the speaker cutout like you would see on a Ms. Pac-Man cocktail cab or something.

What do you think?

Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: vertexguy on April 04, 2021, 02:33:19 pm
I'd vote for the vertical stack.  Side by side throws off symmetry too much for me.  Maybe make sure your grill can be high enough so it doesn't turn into a kick plate that may be damaged easily.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: thomas_surles on April 04, 2021, 03:03:55 pm
I'd vote for the vertical stack.  Side by side throws off symmetry too much for me.  Maybe make sure your grill can be high enough so it doesn't turn into a kick plate that may be damaged easily.
I agree
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: meyer980 on April 04, 2021, 04:23:17 pm
if I can get through Easter dinner quick enough I'm going to route out the t-molding slots.

haha arcade priorities!

I think I like the stacked version too but don't hate the side-by-side
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on April 04, 2021, 04:41:46 pm
I think that's the way I'm leaning as well but I kind of like the look of the DK cabaret with the off-center coin door:

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/y94UrP1w1qA/hqdefault.jpg)

Probably can't go wrong either way...
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: pbj on April 04, 2021, 08:37:50 pm
Side by side, disregard the others.

Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: vertexguy on April 04, 2021, 09:51:44 pm
Too add further indecision to the mix, I do have a fondness for the nintendo style audio wood grills.  Although your DK is kinda staggered with the audio port vs the coin door.  Your diagram didn't suggest that kind of audio port though with the big oval shape.  What are you thinking there?  Nintendo style small circle or modern oval speaker grill?
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on April 05, 2021, 03:39:11 am
I was thinking stacked until you added that picture to the mix.

Gotta agree with pbj.

Far more of an authentic vibe with side by side.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: leapinlew on April 05, 2021, 06:04:22 am
Put me in for a symmetrical vertical stack. I don't have an issue with the Donkey Kong, but my thinking is if it's the only arcade in the room, it'll look cleaner if it's symmetrical.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Mike A on April 05, 2021, 06:25:05 am
Side by side.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210405/55686ee771f16d05f17171949a9f3a2d.jpg)

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on April 05, 2021, 07:25:01 am
Side by side.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210405/55686ee771f16d05f17171949a9f3a2d.jpg)

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Wow that is an awesome looking cabinet.  The colors, the art - everything.  This might be the winner.  I was thinking rectangular speaker grill next to the coin door if I go this route.  So picture this without the bottom coin box door and thatís it.

I guess both L and R speakers would go behind the grill? 
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Mike A on April 05, 2021, 07:38:49 am
Whenever you have design questions, look to the original machines.

This one is not completely original, but you get the idea.

Also, the cab is not mine. Just a random pic from Google.


Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: lomoverde on April 05, 2021, 08:19:50 am
If i could cut the front panel again on my Tully,Id go for side by side.
 Ive been sat at a stool on mine working on the software and kick the speaker grill all the time.Its only a matter of time before it gets damaged or i have to hunt down a new more robust cover.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on April 05, 2021, 09:08:55 am
It is the yellow T-molding matching the yellow in the artwork and contrasting with the blues that make it pop.

I vote for side-by-side too FWIW
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Gilrock on April 05, 2021, 10:15:04 am
You're the one that has to stare at it so forget what all of us think.  I would personally go with a 3rd option.  Coin door centered with round grill cutouts like that Donkey Kong on both sides of the coin door.  In the world all beautiful people share a common aspect which is "symmetry".
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on April 05, 2021, 02:20:20 pm
Gil - you're killing me.  Just when I had my mind made up...   :laugh:

I don't think I want to cut out slots like that for Nintendo style speakers.  I'm trying to make these cabs "easy" so I'll be doing something like the Centipede that Mike A posted for the speaker.  Rectangular cutout with a rectangular grill.  Still, that might look pretty good with L and R speakers on either side of the coin door.

One good thing is that I don't have to look at these since I'm giving them away so I might take some liberties with the design for fun.  lomoverde convinced me that I won't be doing speakers on the bottom that's for sure.  I think I'm going with the off-center version.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Gilrock on April 05, 2021, 04:03:49 pm
Wow I missed reading these were gifts.  Going to be some nice gifts!
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on April 05, 2021, 04:36:51 pm
OMG getting a dead center t-molding slot is the bane of my existence.  Took me 5 tries to line it up and even still it's probably 0.5mm off center.  I am probably missing something super easy with getting this just right... LOL

Wow I missed reading these were gifts.  Going to be some nice gifts!

I secretly want to keep them but my wife would straight up murder me at this point and she's pretty tolerant about this hobby all things considered.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: thomas_surles on April 05, 2021, 05:17:01 pm
OMG getting a dead center t-molding slot is the bane of my existence.  Took me 5 tries to line it up and even still it's probably 0.5mm off center.  I am probably missing something super easy with getting this just right... LOL

Wow I missed reading these were gifts.  Going to be some nice gifts!

I secretly want to keep them but my wife would straight up murder me at this point and she's pretty tolerant about this hobby all things considered.
Don't let it bother you. I didn't even measure mine. It was center enough
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: jennifer on April 05, 2021, 05:40:04 pm
 :)
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: leapinlew on April 05, 2021, 05:56:04 pm
You're the one that has to stare at it so forget what all of us think.  I would personally go with a 3rd option.  Coin door centered with round grill cutouts like that Donkey Kong on both sides of the coin door.  In the world all beautiful people share a common aspect which is "symmetry".

Agreed! And there is no wrong answer here. Both ways would look fine. I still suggest center just because that's how most of the ones I've seen were.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/86/42/d0/8642d0e19f05c71b3ae91591353157e2.jpg)
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on April 06, 2021, 01:05:20 am
You're the one that has to stare at it so forget what all of us think.  I would personally go with a 3rd option.  Coin door centered with round grill cutouts like that Donkey Kong on both sides of the coin door.  In the world all beautiful people share a common aspect which is "symmetry".

Agreed! And there is no wrong answer here. Both ways would look fine. I still suggest center just because that's how most of the ones I've seen were.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/86/42/d0/8642d0e19f05c71b3ae91591353157e2.jpg)


Love the wood veneer in those cabs.

With the coin door mostly black it doesn't matter much either way. Black is wonderful, magical stuff that hides many imperfections. It isn't quite "out-of-sight" but is mostly "out-of-mind". Ignore all of us and do something completely different.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on April 06, 2021, 09:27:28 am
Love the wood veneer in those cabs.

Ignore all of us and do something completely different.

I've got something a little different in mind here...
Title: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on April 12, 2021, 12:16:04 pm
I forgot that it rains all the time this time of year.  Not much progress made over the weekend due to weather.  I did spend some time laying out all of the interior pieces and I bought the 1/2" MDF I'll be using for those panels as well as some maple strips for the interior battons.  As soon as I get a sunny day it is off to the races. 

All I've got is 4 side panels with t-molding slots and layout lines...

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210412/3d967cfb83dadc64d2ab2f0f4cdd0e2f.jpg)

For these builds, I'm going to try something different (for me).  I bought my first circular saw and I'm going to make a sawboard with a 90 degree lip for the straight cuts instead of using a jigsaw to rough cut and a router +straightedge to clean up the line.  In theory this should save a lot of time since I just have to rip the 18" wide boards to the proper heights and I can be precise with the sawboard. Each cabinet only needs a few interior panels.

I'm also going to use my nail gun and some 1" brads for assembly instead of screwing in the battons.  This way, I'll just be able to glue and nail in minutes instead of predrilling holes and worrying about the depth of the bit and fussing with the screws themselves, etc.  I've never had to disassemble a cabinet in my life so I think it will be fine.

Another thing I'm debating is whether to assemble the cabinets and then paint or paint and then assemble.  If I paint first, I will get a much more even coat with no brushstrokes at all since I can roll every panel right to the edge.  But this makes assembly a pain because I lose all of the layout lines.  Probably worth the extra hassle to get a better finish.

I suppose I could fire up Inkscape and try making the CP art to kill some time...
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: jennifer on April 12, 2021, 12:59:06 pm
 :)
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on April 12, 2021, 01:09:11 pm
You may want to check your work after that skill saw cut, Even though it says 90deg, the plates on those are generally quite flimsy, and bend easily under stress... It took me awhile to figger that out, but what happens it the cut winds up not being truly square.

If I rip the sawboard edge with my circular saw it shouldn't matter how "off" it is from the fence because I'll be lining up the newly cut edge 90 degrees to the workpiece.  Or am I not thinking about this correctly?
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: jennifer on April 12, 2021, 01:25:54 pm
 :)
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on April 12, 2021, 02:04:47 pm
Guess I am a little confused...What Jenn is saying if you look at the back of your saw, (where the power cord is), and look at the square of the blade to that plate it is probably not a nice 90deg like the gauge says, in fact if you grab that plate and flex it it will most likely even bend...Skill saws are awesome tools for ripping large sheets into manageable pieces and close cuts, but not so much for precision, But your router is and is fully capable of a nice square edge, as you probably already know.

Oh... so you are saying the blade might not be 90 degrees to the surface (not straight up and down)?  Whereas the router bits are definitely 90 degrees.  Hmmm... I didn't even think of that.  I bought a deWalt saw so hopefully it's at least OK out of the box.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: jennifer on April 12, 2021, 03:12:14 pm
 :)
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: jennifer on April 12, 2021, 03:20:11 pm
 :)
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on April 12, 2021, 09:01:42 pm
Guess I am a little confused...What Jenn is saying if you look at the back of your saw, (where the power cord is), and look at the square of the blade to that plate it is probably not a nice 90deg like the gauge says, in fact if you grab that plate and flex it it will most likely even bend...Skill saws are awesome tools for ripping large sheets into manageable pieces and close cuts, but not so much for precision, But your router is and is fully capable of a nice square edge, as you probably already know.

Oh... so you are saying the blade might not be 90 degrees to the surface (not straight up and down)?  Whereas the router bits are definitely 90 degrees.  Hmmm... I didn't even think of that.  I bought a deWalt saw so hopefully it's at least OK out of the box.

Depends on what level of precision you want really (and maybe more importantly your familiarity with your tools.)
I have a pretty decent wormdrive saw that makes very square cuts but the base plate is cast/machined- not stamped.
I get better cuts with that than with the extra step of a router pass myself.

I still check blade angle now and again with a square on all my saws just to get them as close to perfect as possible and that is typically good enough for many projects.

If you are gluing/clamping/nailing/screwing panels together and they will get t-molding, paint, vinyl laminate, etc. anyway then I don't imagine most people will notice anything less than 2-3 degrees out of square.

If doing fine cabinet work with stock that will only get stain for a finish and has drawers and doors...
Then the router method is worth it for sure.

Or as a great alternative to both- a plunge/track saw setup.
A buddy of mine does a lot of nice cabinet building and now that is all he uses anymore really.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Mike A on April 12, 2021, 09:48:08 pm
It's a ---smurfing--- box with a tv in it.
Even a ---smurfy--- circular saw will make squared cuts as long as you set the base plate correctly to begin with.
We are building arcade cabs not Mars rovers...well except for Laythe. He kind of is building a NASA project. That metal working requires an extra level of precision, skills, and tools.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on April 12, 2021, 09:50:27 pm
It's a ---smurfing--- box with a tv in it.
Even a ---smurfy--- circular saw will make squared cuts as long as you set the base plate correctly to begin with.
We are building arcade cabs not Mars rovers...well except for Laythe. He kind of is building a NASA project. That metal working requires an extra level of precision, skills, and tools.

Precisely...

Get it?!

Precisely?!
 :lol
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on April 12, 2021, 09:58:53 pm
It's a ---smurfing--- box with a tv in it.
Even a ---smurfy--- circular saw will make squared cuts as long as you set the base plate correctly to begin with.
We are building arcade cabs not Mars rovers...well except for Laythe. He kind of is building a NASA project. That metal working requires an extra level of precision, skills, and tools.
Yeah, Iím not worried about this at all.  Iím actually trying to be less anal with these cabs so Iím going to try cuts with the circular saw and some brads to assemble.  Should be doable in a weekend, right?  Itís just a ---smurfing--- box!
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on April 12, 2021, 10:06:30 pm
It's a ---smurfing--- box with a tv in it.
Even a ---smurfy--- circular saw will make squared cuts as long as you set the base plate correctly to begin with.
We are building arcade cabs not Mars rovers...well except for Laythe. He kind of is building a NASA project. That metal working requires an extra level of precision, skills, and tools.

Precisely...

Get it?!

Precisely?!
 :lol

Lol I agree with yuze all. Circular saw, T-square, sandpaper, eyeballs. All of your sins will be forgiven in the final shots.

Cheap table saw to make those long cuts it easier. Watch a few safety videos before you do, so you can come back to the forum with all your limbs intact.

We outta rename the forum "Build Your Own Arcade Mars Helicopter".
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: jennifer on April 12, 2021, 10:32:30 pm
 :)
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on April 13, 2021, 05:07:02 am
I wouldnt consider cutting a strait line rocket science, But doing it with a skill saw?...Well don't hurt yourself man.

Local carpenters take a normal skill saw and turn it into a basic table saw by mounting it upside-down on a home-made wooden bracket. Our two-storey house is made by this technology.

Not Mars landing technology perhaps, but they do pretty easily manage some long straight cuts with a skill saw.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on April 13, 2021, 06:53:19 am
With all this talk about the saw I canít wait to try it!  Iíve actually never used one - never really needed one but I wanted to give it a shot.  How else are you guys cutting long straight lines?
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: thomas_surles on April 13, 2021, 10:01:47 am
I cut all my cabs with just a skill saw. I dont let it stress me out. I did use a router for the marquee and bezel. My cuts aren't perfect, but hit it with a sander, throw some paint and t moulding on and it will look fine. I appreciate everyone's craftsmanship and perfection, but I dont have it in me.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: wp34 on April 13, 2021, 10:13:09 am
If I'm breaking down a 4x4 sheet I'll use a circular saw with a clamped straight edge.  But whenever I can I use my table saw simply because I enjoy using it.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: thomas_surles on April 13, 2021, 11:09:34 am
If I'm breaking down a 4x4 sheet I'll use a circular saw with a clamped straight edge.  But whenever I can I use my table saw simply because I enjoy using it.
If I had one I for sure would rather do my long cuts on it.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: wp34 on April 13, 2021, 11:20:34 am
For what it is worth my brother-in-law is a professional fine carpenter with a very nice cabinet saw that he no longer uses.  He's converted completely to using a Festool track saw and swears by the ease and accuracy of it. 
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Gilrock on April 13, 2021, 11:21:05 am
We may need to move this thread to the Woodworking section now...lol
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: jennifer on April 13, 2021, 09:36:04 pm
 :)
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: jennifer on April 13, 2021, 10:00:18 pm
 :)
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on April 20, 2021, 09:16:47 am
Cut list is done.  Not to scale LOL.  Going to try and cut most of the panels today - finally going to be nice out.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210420/a654c0c2ec0589a5046338403b13034a.jpg)

On Sunday I made a saw board for my new circular saw.  Took 20 minutes to put together.  I think itís going to work great.  I bought a finishing blade with a lot of teeth for a nice clean cut.
Title: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on April 20, 2021, 05:46:53 pm
OK eff the sawboard.  No matter what I do Iím off by 1/32Ē on long cuts.  Itís driving me crazy.  Iím going back to tried and true method of jigsaw and clean up the line with the router.  Takes twice as long but itís dead accurate.

I got all 12 panels cut.  Tomorrow Iíll cut holes for the marquee, coin door, speakers, power receptacle, etc.  Only 3 panels actually need any attention before paint.

Iím not even joking when I say the toughest thing for me to do is cut square panels.  Seems like it should be simple but whatever...
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: jennifer on April 20, 2021, 05:58:41 pm
 :)
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on April 20, 2021, 06:51:14 pm
Well yeah but I donít have a jointer or tablesaw or a shop for that matter... I have a table and some hand tools.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: jennifer on April 20, 2021, 07:59:27 pm
 :)
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on April 22, 2021, 01:36:36 am
Well yeah but I donít have a jointer or tablesaw or a shop for that matter... I have a table and some hand tools.

One of the issues with a table saw is finding the space to use it to full effect with large pieces. You need room to input the work to the saw, as well as room for it coming out. Huge tables are the bomb if you have unlimited the space. Oh and don't forget that it generates a shitload of sawdust that goes everywhere so you have to contain (bag, vacuum) that or cut outside.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on April 22, 2021, 05:23:37 am
This is absolutely true.

Problem with all those machines that cut so perfectly the first shot is that they take up a crap load of space.

If you have found a method that works for you with the tools that your space, time and budget allow then please ignore all of us!
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: jennifer on April 22, 2021, 11:33:35 am
 :).
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: jennifer on April 22, 2021, 11:37:50 am
 :)
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: jennifer on April 22, 2021, 12:15:52 pm
 :)
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on May 05, 2021, 11:35:39 am
The weather has been rainy/cold here forever it seems so no physical work on the cabinets in a while but I have been trying to set up the software behind the scenes.  I am going to try using bbegin's dedicated pi image running the latest version of MAME with Attract Mode as the front end.  I don't know how it works yet but I am getting there. 

Anyway, I started putting together the game list.  Vertical monitor with 4-way joystick and two action buttons.  What am I missing?

Amidar
Astro Blaster
Astro Invader
Bagman
Burger Time
Crush Roller
Dig Dug
Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong II
Donkey Kong 3
Donkey Kong, Jr.
Eyes
Frogger
Galaga
Galaxian
Gaplus
Gorf
Gyruss
Jr. Pac-Man
Jumping Jack
King & Balloon
Ladybug
Lock-n-Chase
Mappy
Moon Cresta
Ms. Pac-Man
Mr. Do!
Mr. Do!'s Castle
Nibbler
Pac-Man
Pac & Pal
Pac-Man Plus
Pandora's Palace
Pepper II
Pengo
Phoenix
Pooyan
Qix
Rally-X
Satan's Hallow
Space Invaders
Super Bagman
Super Pac-Man
The End
The Tower of Druaga

This seems like a decent selection of games for my nieces/nephews who likely haven't played any of these games ever.

I have all of the panels cut but not painted/assembled yet (and I still need to cut holes in the front panel for the marquee, coin door and speakers).  I think one sunny weekend and I'll be in good shape.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Mike A on May 05, 2021, 11:51:21 am
Circus Charlie. It is a 2 way game, but it will play okay with a 4 way.

Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on May 05, 2021, 12:18:59 pm
Circus Charlie. It is a 2 way game, but it will play okay with a 4 way.
Good call.  Oversight on my part - I play that game often.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: emphatic on May 05, 2021, 04:09:53 pm
Bomb Jack should be playable with a 4-way, right?
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Gilrock on May 05, 2021, 04:26:31 pm
I play 1942 with my 4-way but it does feel more difficult but I guess if you are playing Gorf its about the same.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on May 24, 2021, 11:22:39 am
Coin doors just arrived.  I was trying to keep this "cheap" but a single slot coin door looked weird to me so I sprung for the doubles.  $150 for two doors.  It's only money!

I need to get motivated again.  Panels are all cut (mostly) but I still have to paint before assembly...  Once it's 3D things should move quickly but I've been lazy...
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: DaOld Man on May 25, 2021, 10:25:23 am
Looking good James!

I made one of those saw boards and had the same problem, it was always around 1/32 to 1/16 inch off.
I gave up and scrapped it after a while. Could not figure out what i was doing wrong.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Mike A on May 25, 2021, 10:28:15 am
If you are down to 1/32nd building an arcade cab you are golden.

1/32 inch is less than a millimeter.

What tolerances are you guys looking for?
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on May 25, 2021, 11:41:17 am
If you are down to 1/32nd building an arcade cab you are golden.

1/32 inch is less than a millimeter.

What tolerances are you guys looking for?

Honestly, I think it is a mild mental disorder.  I am constantly fighting with myself over "good enough" v. "perfect" when good enough is... well, good enough.  I can't seem to let it go.  It's not just with arcade cabinets - every aspect of my life.  Mowing the grass, cleaning the house, etc.  I can't even enjoy a movie without stressing over picture and sound quality.  I hate it.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Mike A on May 25, 2021, 11:55:54 am
You can't measure 1/32 of an inch accurately anyways.

It is the width of a mechanical pencil lead.

You need to break out of that thinking. Your productivity will be unbelievable, and you will be happier.

Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: thomas_surles on May 25, 2021, 12:12:21 pm
Dig dug 2 should make use of that extra button
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Mike A on May 25, 2021, 12:23:31 pm
Kicker is another good one.

https://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=8304 (https://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=8304)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210525/55cb7e16763d5de6b5928f48e0af1b60.jpg)
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: LTC on May 25, 2021, 02:28:42 pm
The weather has been rainy/cold here forever it seems so no physical work on the cabinets in a while but I have been trying to set up the software behind the scenes.  I am going to try using bbegin's dedicated pi image running the latest version of MAME with Attract Mode as the front end.  I don't know how it works yet but I am getting there. 

Anyway, I started putting together the game list.  Vertical monitor with 4-way joystick and two action buttons.  What am I missing?

Amidar
....

Carnival
Guzzler
Lunar Rescue

Also, Pepper II and Rally X are horizontal...
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on May 26, 2021, 03:44:25 am
You can't measure 1/32 of an inch accurately anyways.

It is the width of a mechanical pencil lead.

You need to break out of that thinking. Your productivity will be unbelievable, and you will be happier.

I'm satisfied at 1/16" myself-

And this week I'm accepting 1/8" just so I can get the freaking machine operational before the month is over.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on September 19, 2021, 01:38:35 pm
OK - bumping this thread to get me moving.  The summer of extreme heat and an unusually busy work schedule didn't allow me to do much of anything on this project.  I also lost power in my garage and the electrician cannot figure out why and the only solution is to dig a 60' trench and bury a new line in the backyard.  So my "shop" has no electricity unless I run an extension cord from the house.  Hoping to get this fixed in the next 2 weeks.

All of the panels are cut so I'm working on the front panel where the cutouts are as well as the rear panels where I need a few holes for the camlock and the power receptacle.  I'm also still undecided on the front panel.  I'm definitely offsetting the coin door (to the left) but not sure what to do about the speakers on the right.  Anyone have any links to rectangular speaker grills about 6"x9" or so?

Based on the feedback, I'm adding Kicker, Carnival, Guzzler, Circus Charlie and Lunar Rescue to the final list of 4-way; 2 button controls.. and I might actually ditch the second button since not that many games on this list use it... but I don't want to lose Qix.

Amidar
Anteater
Armored Car
Astro Blaster
Astro Invader
Bagman
Burger Time
Carnival
Cavelon
Circus Charlie
Crush Roller
Dig Dug
Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong II
Donkey Kong 3
Donkey Kong, Jr.
Eyes
Frogger
Galaga
Galaga '88
Galaxian
Gaplus
Gorf
Guzzler
Gyruss
Jr. Pac-Man
Jumping Jack
Kicker
King & Balloon
Lasso
Ladybug
Lock-n-Chase
Lunar Rescue
Mappy
Monster Bash
Moon Cresta
Ms. Pac-Man
Mr. Do!
Mr. Do!'s Castle
Nibbler
Pac-Man
Pac & Pal
Pac-Man Plus
Pandora's Palace
Pengo
Phoenix
Pioneer Balloon
Pleiads
Pooyan
Qix
Satan's Hallow
Space Invaders
Super Bagman
Super Pac-Man
The End
The Tower of Druaga
Van-Van Car
Zzyzzyxx
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on September 19, 2021, 11:20:30 pm
For Qix and Phoenix I would want two buttons  :)

Was the line feeding your workshop direct burial or in conduit and how old is it?

Very uncommon for wire to fail unless cut, nailed through, pinched, etc.

Trenching (again) sucks but if it can't be avoided...

Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on September 20, 2021, 06:15:47 am
Hey bobby - the line is running through underground conduit from the back of my house (somewhere) to the garage.  It was put there in 2013 so not that long ago.  The breaker in my basement keeps tripping so Iím told that means there is a short along the line somewhere but the electrician couldnít find it.  When the line gets to the house it becomes buried in my theater wall for a bit on the way to the breaker box and I cannot open up the wall for a number of reasons.

We had massive flooding in NJ from the hurricane a few weeks ago and that is when it stopped working.  I had no water in my house thankfully but there is evidence that there was at least some water in my detached garaged where my tools are.

Iím probably keeping 2 buttons on the CP - itís not crowded at all and will look just fine with the 2 start buttons, pause/exit and the joystick on there.ll
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on September 21, 2021, 12:39:33 am
Sorry to hear you got caught up in that deluge and bummer on the electric.
Only person who could really sort out what it is would be the person who pulled the circuit originally.

But if there is no junction box anywhere between house panel and garage (where there could be wires soaking together and shorting that run) then something got pinched somewhere.

I suppose it is a good excuse to upgrade if the budget bears it.

I was ready to put 3 or 4 buttons on one of my panels and opted for just two myself also (four I guess when you account for ambidexterity.)
Title: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on September 21, 2021, 08:09:26 pm
Thereís a junction box in the basement buried behind a wall and it is not accessible.  My fault as I finished the room in my basement as my home theater with elaborate treatments on the walls.  I knew I was covering it up but never once had an electrical problem in the house.  Oh well.  Live and learn.

I bought some speaker grills for a Midway cocktail cabinet I plan to build eventuallyÖ hopefully before Iím too old to enjoy it.  I could use them in this build.  They would be installed vertically to the right of the coin door.  Not sure how it would lookÖ

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210922/f3e3a180549e23744fd96aa816c14167.jpg)
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on September 23, 2021, 05:07:09 am
Sorry about that buried box. Probably a fish tank still at the moment given that storm.

I hope you have disconnected that circuit in your load center so nothing bad happens.
Just in case...

I can't remember what the artwork plan was for these (not a jab mind you- I don't have a leg to stand on in regard to pace of completion here for a while now)

Seem to recall maybe off center DK style router slot grills instead of those plastic ones... ?
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on September 23, 2021, 12:22:32 pm
I can't remember what the artwork plan was for these (not a jab mind you- I don't have a leg to stand on in regard to pace of completion here for a while now)

Seem to recall maybe off center DK style router slot grills instead of those plastic ones... ?

I'm not doing the DK speaker slots.  Too much work.  I am offsetting the coin door to the left underneath the marquee and on the right I am most likely drilling two holes vertically and covering them with the speaker grill posted above.  It's actually metal and the exact grills that are used on Midway cocktail cabinets.

I am currently trying to decide whether to (1) round over the opening for the marquee and (2) route out material behind the marquee cutout so that the marquee can be a little closer to flush with the front panel.  I am thinking about both of these things to avoid t-molding around the marquee, which I'm not a huge fan of.

If I round over the edge then I have to paint the entire panel black (which is always been the plan).  Woodgrain vinyl is going on the sides exactly like my last cabinet.  I think it will all work together.
Title: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on September 28, 2021, 05:45:33 pm
AlrightÖ any progress is good progress, right?  It has become clear Iím never going to get an entire day to work on these so Iím trying to do an hour here and there when Iím in between phone calls and meetings. 

I laid out the front panel and cut out the hole for the coin door precisely.  The marquee hole is just a rough cut.  I cannot find my pattern bit with the ball bearing on top so every line Iím cutting needs to be done upside down and I want to scream.

Anyway, the coin door fits but now Iím rethinking the placement of the speaker grill.  Originally the plan was to line up the top of the grill with the top of the coin door and also set it in from the right the same distance as the coin door:

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210928/7e2c0101c6652d53271a6cdea8e7b0cd.jpg)

I donít like it.  So instead the new plan is to center it with the coin door:

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210928/164c5f468dbf9a8181e1a46d6127fc3a.jpg)

I think this looks slightly better although with the entire panel getting some black paint I am not sure it even matters.  I am going to be drilling two 2Ē diameter holes on top of each other for the L and R speakers.  The sub will just sit on the floor inside the cab. 

I do think I might want to add some art or something underneath - seems a little barren to me but not sure what would go there.  Maybe just some white pin stripes or somethingÖ.

Tomorrow Iím planning on getting the marquee cut precisely and then making a copy of the entire panel (remember Iím building two of these at once).  Then Iíll probably round over the opening with a 1/4Ē round over bit.

Stay tunedÖ
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: vertexguy on September 28, 2021, 07:41:19 pm
Great to see you back at it again.  I agree that centered balances it out a bit better.  Like you said though, with it all black the orientation won't stand out nearly as much.   :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on September 29, 2021, 01:53:42 am
Given the space there, maybe even bottom lined up will be cool.

Totally agree that equal center line is better than even on top.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on September 29, 2021, 09:30:15 am
Great to see you back at it again.  I agree that centered balances it out a bit better.  Like you said though, with it all black the orientation won't stand out nearly as much.   :cheers:

Yeah, I think that's what I'm going with.  It's going to be a lot of black but that's pretty much how cabarets were back in the day.  If I can think of a fun (and easy) design for the front I'll consider it - especially since I won't have to look at it! 

I definitely did not intend to take a 5 month break from building but I have been dealing with motivation issues plus we spent a lot of time down the shore over the summer.  A while back I finally decided to go back to the gym instead of running every day.  I missed it a lot but I'm also a giant wuss and didn't want to be around other people but it's been fine for the most part.  I am feeling energized again.

Given the space there, maybe even bottom lined up will be cool.

Totally agree that equal center line is better than even on top.

yeah I don't think it actually matters in the grand scheme of things but I like to obsess over the details  ;D
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on September 29, 2021, 07:38:16 pm
This is getting out of handÖ Now there are two of them!

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210929/4238a477a1611e39fd9d7995ca1ade66.jpg)

I cleaned up the marquee and drilled the speaker holes.  Then using my pattern bit I made an exact copy for cab #2.  Iíll call this a win for today.

Next I need to think about assembling the cabinets and painting.  Last time, I laminated all of the inside panels but this time Iím just giving them a coat of black paint.  Iím planning to attach the wood battons to the inside panels permanently (glue and an excuse to use my nail gun).  But then Iíll attach them to the side panels with screws so I can take it apart and paint and then glue everything in place.  Iím trying to eliminate brush strokes.

So next up is cutting a bunch of wood strips for the bottom panel, front panel and lower rear panel and attaching everything.  It will make sense when I get going and post some more pics.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: lomoverde on September 29, 2021, 08:36:53 pm
These are looking boss.
 :applaud:
Title: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 01, 2021, 03:32:46 pm
These are looking boss.
 :applaud:

Thanks!  It's just slow going as usual for me. 

Today I assembled the bases for each cabinet using 1x2s some glue and my nail gun.  It went OK.  Not *perfect* but hopefully close enough.  I need to let it go... 

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211001/ae65108b05e8617ea7ebc4f5a76903a2.jpg)

Now I'm going to finish off the front panels.  I need to round over the edge of the marquee opening with a 1/8" roundover bit and then remove a 3/4" thick border on the back of the marquee opening about 1/4" deep so I can install the marquee closer to the front panel.  I might freehand this because no one will ever see it but I'm not sure yet. 

I am a little bit concerned how that edge is going to take paint.  I'm probably going to lather on some putty or something and then sand it back just to seal the edge.  Not sure what else to do. I really really want to get the cabinets assembled by the end of the weekend but Saturday is a complete wash since the kids have cross country meets...
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: SpaceHedgehog on October 01, 2021, 03:54:33 pm
Looking good! I fancy having a crack at one of these lowboys at some point.

If you're talking about the MDF edges, car body filler is great although requires a bit of prep.
Title: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 01, 2021, 04:08:16 pm
Looking good! I fancy having a crack at one of these lowboys at some point.

If you're talking about the MDF edges, car body filler is great although requires a bit of prep.
Thanks!  Yeah,  just talking about finishing a rounded over MDF edge.  I have some bondo on a shelf somewhere so I could try that too. 

The panel is 1/2Ē thick currently but Iím removing 1/4Ē of that and then rounding over 1/8Ē of what is left.  So itís going to be 1/8Ē rounded and 1/8Ē flat.  The idea is to try and bring the lit marquee as far forward as possible to the front panel.

Honestly, you should give one of these cabinets a try.  They take up almost no space whatsoever and look great when finished.  Iím sure these wonít be the last ones I buildÖ
Title: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 01, 2021, 05:41:14 pm
AlrightÖ the front panels are finished.  I rounded over the edge of the marquee opening with a 1/4Ē round over bit.  I was going to do 1/8Ē but it wasnít pronounced enough.  Came out nice and I think Iíll get a decent coat of paint on it after sealing it.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211001/c244a0fc02cdac1c6feaa831d0e0241b.jpg)

Then, I flipped the panel over and routed away 3/4Ē of material all the way around going 1/4Ē deep.  This is for the marquee to sit in so I can get it as close to the front plane as possible. 

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211001/a4a782e5c397684456dfe3bb457a36c7.jpg)

Leaving the full 1/2Ē thickness was probably going to cast a shadow once everything was finished so this is the solution I came up with to minimize that.  So now the end of the round over will almost touch the marquee.  Probably overkill but hey why not - it came out great.

Iím pretty much ready for assembly and then paint or paint and then assemblyÖ still trying to work that out.
Title: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 03, 2021, 04:31:19 pm
Alright.  I finished making some of the final cuts on the panels (power receptacle hole, etc.) And everything is ready for paint.  There are 8 panels per cabinet that I need to prime x2 and paint x2 with a light sanding in between each coat.  To make this go fast Iím just going to paint the viewable side of each panel instead of painting everything front and back and then when the cabinet is assembled Iíll do a quick and dirty paint job on the inside to hide any bare MDF.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211003/7b0f967c5eeb6e60d3c6711936947202.jpg)

I decided to paint first and then assemble even though it might be slightly difficult to line everything up.  I have to do each cabinet separate, unfortunately, because I do not have enough room to stage all the panels at once.

Primer goes on nowÖ
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: SpaceHedgehog on October 03, 2021, 05:09:11 pm
Nice! Interested to know what you're using paint and primer-wise.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 03, 2021, 07:09:41 pm
Nice! Interested to know what you're using paint and primer-wise.

BIN Zinsser primer and Rustoleum Matte (or Flat) Black mixed with Floetrol so that it will dry smooth and hopefully eliminate roller marks.   I will roll both on as even as I can with a nap roller (I get lines with foam rollers every time).  The exterior side panels are getting a vinyl woodgrain wrap so that is what will be mostly seen when the cabs are finished so the black paint doesn't have to be perfect - just good enough because it will mostly be interior facing.  I'm painting before assembly to avoid brush strokes.

The front panel and top panel are going to face outward though and depending on how that comes out I may roll on one coat of black Duratex speaker paint.  I have a bit left over from when I built some speakers a few years ago and I love the look.  It dries with that classic Marshall stack rough/speckled texture and looks great.  I did this on my last two cabinets and am very happy... but it's $100/quart so I can't waste it!  Here's what it looks like:

(https://i.imgur.com/G1oReGg.jpg?1)

If I have enough paint I'll probably do it since it adds a finished look to the whole thing but we shall see...

Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: SpaceHedgehog on October 04, 2021, 09:13:21 am
I checked out some reviews for the BIN Zinsser primer - looks like quality stuff. I'll be getting some! Thanks for the heads-up.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: vertexguy on October 04, 2021, 12:03:23 pm
I'm really digging the speckled texture of that black.  It does remind me of a guitar amp.  Won't that make it challenging to apply artwork though?  Or maybe you aren't doing art on this one?
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 04, 2021, 12:12:42 pm
I'm really digging the speckled texture of that black.  It does remind me of a guitar amp.  Won't that make it challenging to apply artwork though?  Or maybe you aren't doing art on this one?

The Duratex paint would only go on the top panel and the front panel where there is no art.  It looks (and feels) great in person and makes things look "finished" instead of just flat black paint which looks fine too but not that great.  I'm still not sure.  I'll add  coat of black paint after priming and if it looks good I'll just leave it but if it doesn't I'll probably pain the top coat with the Duratex.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 04, 2021, 05:07:51 pm
Huge updateÖ if you were wondering what 2 coats of primer looks like on some panels!

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211004/8e6431fa59afa67340c3c7d0bfe71140.jpg)

This is one complete set of panels for one of the cabinets.  I think I want to let this dry overnight before sanding and applying the black top coats. 

So assembly will likely be Wednesday and then Iíll probably need 3 more days for the second cabinet.  If I have 2 standing cabinets by Sunday night with painting complete Iíll be very happy.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: SpaceHedgehog on October 05, 2021, 11:06:35 am
Nice going and hope you manage to get these completed in time.

Curious about the finish of the primer / sealer - does it have a tendency to 'lift' some of the fibre out of the MDF and require a little sanding or does it dry completely flat?

Good luck and keep going  :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 05, 2021, 12:19:40 pm
Nice going and hope you manage to get these completed in time.

Curious about the finish of the primer / sealer - does it have a tendency to 'lift' some of the fibre out of the MDF and require a little sanding or does it dry completely flat?

Good luck and keep going  :cheers:

I know exactly what you mean but it's honestly hard to tell.  To get a nice finish, I sand the MDF before even applying the first coat.  I use 220 or 400 grit (whatever I have laying around) and go light and then vacuum off the dust.  Then I roll on the first coat, wait for it to dry and then lightly sand again with 220 and repeat.  Sanding here seems almost certainly to be just the paint and not any MDF fibers (no brown in the dust at all at this stage).  After sanding, the finish is very smooth and since MDF is flat you don't end up sanding off any of the primer.  I don't think it pulls fibers up like staining something made out of wood does if that is what you are getting at.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: SpaceHedgehog on October 05, 2021, 03:54:08 pm

I know exactly what you mean but it's honestly hard to tell.  To get a nice finish, I sand the MDF before even applying the first coat.  I use 220 or 400 grit (whatever I have laying around) and go light and then vacuum off the dust.  Then I roll on the first coat, wait for it to dry and then lightly sand again with 220 and repeat.  Sanding here seems almost certainly to be just the paint and not any MDF fibers (no brown in the dust at all at this stage).  After sanding, the finish is very smooth and since MDF is flat you don't end up sanding off any of the primer.  I don't think it pulls fibers up like staining something made out of wood does if that is what you are getting at.

Thanks for the info. I'm generally happy with how my finishes turn out but damn, it's always a lot of work.

Looking forward to seeing what the primer you use turns out like  :cheers:

Keep going!
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 06, 2021, 11:59:40 am
Thanks for the info. I'm generally happy with how my finishes turn out but damn, it's always a lot of work.

yeah... I gave up on perfect piano finishes years ago.  It's just not worth the effort for me.  The pink cabinet in the pic above was polished and polished and polished for several weeks a few hours a night and it came out amazing.  I can still see my reflection in it after wiping it down... but honestly when I'm down there it is just pink out of the corner of my eye just like my rolled on DK is baby blue out of the corner of my eye. 

Maybe if I was making a showpiece for somewhere other than the basement I'd do it again but the rolled on paint really looks good to me as long as I take my time.  Also, for this particular set of cabinets, the wood vinyl is what will catch the eye and I already know that will look great after I stick it down.

Speaking of... I am in sanding hell right now.  I wanted to do everything in the basement but I just can't justify the mess so I'm lugging the panels upstairs and outside one by one to sand them smooth.  One more to go and then I'll roll on the black.  Worst part of any project by far...
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 07, 2021, 01:08:24 pm
First coat of black went on andÖ Iím not a fan. I think I need to get some semi-gloss for this project.  The flat feels almost chalky to the touch.  It dried pretty even and looks good from far away but Iím going to get some different paint for the second coat.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211007/668fc7d4395d33a2755f6ca0616028ae.jpg)

There is a lot of pitting up close, which Iím OK with since these are mostly not going to be seen but I think I can do better. 

The semi gloss is a little concerning since I need to glue the panels together but everything will be reinforced with screws so it should be fine.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 07, 2021, 05:35:55 pm
AlrightÖ first attempt at an extremely simple set-up.  This is using bbeginís image on the Raspberry Pi board with Attract Mode.  My goal is to use a cheap single board computer for the guts of these cabs - no PC, no Windows, etc. - but still get benefits of full MAME (no Retropie nonsense!). One button on/off, boot straight to game list, simple menu thatís easy to navigate, no chance of screwing something up.

I might make a separate post somewhere because I need some help getting it to behave exactly like I want but I am pretty impressed with myself after a few hours.

https://youtu.be/Cjjhl0m7fCM

Some issues I need to sort out:

1.  One button on/off.  I have seen YouTube videos of this and it looks simple enough to wire a button to the GPIO pins and type in some commands from the command line to set it up but it is unclear to me if this is a Retropie thing or separate.  Seems like everyone on the planet loves Retropie - I think it is way too bloated - so it is hard to find information that doesn't involve Retropie.

2.  The Attract Mode theme is confusing up/down and left/right.  Intuitively you want to scroll left/right but you have to hit up/down to move through the games in the list.  There is a "Controls" setting in Attract Mode but I haven't messed around with it yet.  For example, "Up" is set to "keyboard up or joy0up" and I think I would need to change this to "keyboard left or joy1left" but I'm a little wary of screwing things up.  I assume changing these settings in Attract Mode does not carry over to MAME...

3.  [SOLVED!]ESC will exit out of a game but if it is pressed a second time it exits Attract Mode effectively shutting things down.  Not good at all.  I need to figure out how to Exit a game.  [In Attract Mode you hit Tab-> Controls-> Back-> Default-> and change this to an empty field]

4.  Along with #3, I really want to figure out how to set up one button for Pause and Exit.  Hyperspin does this easily but not sure if it is doable in Attract Mode.  Basically, I want to have a button that you press for pause but press and hold for 2-3 seconds to exit back to the game list.  This way a player cannot accidentally exit out of a game.  Anyone got any ideas? 

I think that's it and I'll be all set on the hardware/software side of things.  I may end up paring down the game list - 57 games is a lot to scroll through.  Also, if I can add Tapper and Tetris and get them to look nice in the menu even though they are horizontal I probably will.    :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: PL1 on October 07, 2021, 08:09:59 pm
1.  One button on/off.  I have seen YouTube videos of this and it looks simple enough to wire a button to the GPIO pins and type in some commands from the command line to set it up but it is unclear to me if this is a Retropie thing or separate.
It is a separate thing.

IIRC several years ago I used the process described in this video by ETA Prime and a text file from one of Delusional's posts to add one button standby/power-up via the Retroflag NES case reset button to both a Retropie SD card and a separate Linux desktop SD card.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,154129.msg1622060.html#msg1622060 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,154129.msg1622060.html#msg1622060)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nTuzIY0i3k#


Scott
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 08, 2021, 05:56:43 am
Thanks Scott.  I think this will work.  I set this up previously on the bartop I built but wasnít sure of it was tied to Retropie.  Iím going to give this a shot today.

I also think I can figure out #2 by messing around with the Attract Mode controls.  So this would just leave #4 to figure out - the press to pause/hold to exit problem.

I think I need some sort of script for this like AHK but for the raspberry pi.  Otherwise someone suggested I use that button as ďshiftĒ so it does nothing on itís own but if I hold it and press P1 Start that would function as Exit.  Itís a thought but it means no Pause (unless I can assign Pause and Shift to the same button) and almost certain confusion from the player.  Even if I label the CP clearly people donít read!  Need to think on this more.

EDIT: OK... in the interest of time and not spinning my wheels for weeks on this, I am going to add a Pause button on the CP that when pressed in combination with P1 Start will exit the game back to the game list.  So with that, I think I have a path to getting the software to behave exactly like I want.

Now I need to obsess over how I'm going to make this intuitive on the CP.... which I haven't started designing yet.   4-way joystick, 2 buttons, P1 Start, P2 Start and Pause (Shift).  That's the panel.  I'm going to have to teach myself Inkscape all over again :hissy:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 08, 2021, 04:19:20 pm
I figured out the power on/off.  Couldn't have been easier after some trial and error with various methods.  This is all I had to do:

1. via putty, login to the pi
2. type "sudo cp -p /boot/config.txt /boot/config.txt.bkp (I don't think this is necessary - just makes a backup of config.txt file)
3. type "sudo nano /boot/config.txt (to edit the config.txt file)
4. add these two lines to the file at the end:
Code: [Select]
#shutdown button
dtoverlay=gpio-shutdown

5. type "sudo reboot" (so the changes take effect).

That was it.  Now bridging GPIO3 and Ground (pins 5 and 6) will shut the pi off.  Doing it again will turn it back on. 
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: SpaceHedgehog on October 10, 2021, 03:02:22 pm
Some neat stuff going on!

Are you on schedule with the builds?
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 10, 2021, 06:26:22 pm
Some neat stuff going on!

Are you on schedule with the builds?

I could be on schedule but after painting all of last week I am really discouraged.  It looks like ass.  You cannot tell from far away but on close inspection it's just not coming out as nice as it usually does.  There is a lot of pitting because of the roller, which I expected, but for some reason it's not looking good at all.  Maybe it's the paint I'm using?  I have some Sherwin-Williams eggshell black from when I painted my theater and that came out nice so maybe tomorrow I'll try that.  If it doesn't work, I just have to live with it.

The only panel that is totally visible is the front panel with the marquee and speakers.  Everything else is going to barely show.  Also, your eye will be drawn to the marquee when looking at that panel so maybe it's not really a big deal.  But I think if I could do it over, I would also use vinyl on the front to get a super clean look.  Might be too much woodgrain though. 

I have to get these cabinets assembled by the end of next weekend or I'm going to be in trouble with the mid-December deadline. 
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on October 11, 2021, 01:25:30 am
That sucks.  You are ruling it here otherwise!

Should have good luck with SW paint.

I have had nothing but trouble/disappointment with Behr if that was what you used.

---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- never seems to dry.

Press on.
Might cost a little sleep but you can make it.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 11, 2021, 08:43:47 am
That sucks.  You are ruling it here otherwise!

Should have good luck with SW paint.

I have had nothing but trouble/disappointment with Behr if that was what you used.

---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- never seems to dry.

Press on.
Might cost a little sleep but you can make it.
Iím using Rustoleum, which is good for small touch ups but maybe not for large panels, I think.  I also realized I completely forgot to add the latex thinner so that might be part of the problem.  Iím going to sand down the front panel today and try again.  I think I can live with the rest given how little of the panels will actually be seen,

Both of my brothers in law wonít notice.  They arenít artistic at allÖ like my wife who also doesnít notice.  So however they end up is probably good enough but I would still like to be proud of what I deliver.

The vinyl I ordered wonít be here until the end of the week so even if I got them assembled today Iíd have to stop and waitÖ but time is not on my side.

EDIT: I'm an idiot.  In my efforts to get an even coat of paint, which didn't come out great, I painted before assembly.  Now I'm assembling the first cabinet and completely scratching the paint job anyway so I have to go over it again no matter what.  I have to fill pin nail holes and get a nice even final coat on.  So... for the second cabinet, I'm going to prime only, then assemble and then put on 2 coats of paint. 

For the last cabinet I built, I took the time to laminate all of the black sides that would be visible.  So it made sense to get that all sorted before assembly.  This time however, in my efforts to cut corners (since these aren't for me) I will end up doing 2x the work.  What a headache.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 11, 2021, 04:07:58 pm
Well - cabinet #1 is partially assembled.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211011/346b3af72aee234c19fc3dd499865119.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211011/66e3643a6aa4cd925c6646cb61a8d123.jpg)

Looks goodÖ from far away hahaÖ. Iím finishing the top panels right now (waiting for paint to dry).  I brushed it on this time after adding latex additive to the paint.  Hoping to get a level coat but itís not looking great so far. 

One more coat is all I have in me.  Once I get the top panels installed Iíll fill the pin nail holes, sand the front and brush 2 coats on that panel as well.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: SpaceHedgehog on October 11, 2021, 04:16:13 pm
Damn man, I'm feeling your pain. Getting a good finish can be really frustrating and time consuming. Keep going  :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on October 12, 2021, 01:16:48 pm
I have a cabinet half built that I haven't touched in almost 2 years because the finish was pissing me off.
I have used Rustoleum too but only the oil based stuff seems to behave for me.
Apparently oil base is the better finish to be aplying artwork to also as latex has a compatibility issue with many adhesives.

Have to keep reminding yourself that unless the paint starts flaking off by New Year's that YOU are the only person who is going to really care about the finish quality.

The people you are gifting those to are going to be so stoked that you could have built them out of sturdy cardboard.

And cab #1 looks excellent already by the way!
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on October 12, 2021, 10:10:50 pm
Ah, javery, it looks fine from here and I'm sure they'll love them. I don't know your US brands but, if it was mine, I'd probably just slap on a few coats of "Japan Black" wood stain (whatever brand) and be done with it. Black is very "forgiving". That will look pretty good with some light sanding in between early coats, and resist at least a few years of wear and tear.

Of course, best way to get a smooth finish on those final coats is to use a roller with a short nap (which I hate for anything non-acrylic, but can tolerate if I just throw the roller out afterwards) or (better) spray paint. The hardest part about spray painting though is having the space to setup a decent spray booth to both limit mess and keep dust out. If you have a small job you can get creative and make a basic spray booth with boxes and even sheets. Still, not a job for inside houses, needs some outside space and decent ventilation.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 13, 2021, 11:38:39 am
Thanks guys.  I'd love to spray but I don't have the equipment and I don't really have a place other than outside to paint.  Making a spray booth is kind of out of the question.  I have no idea where I could possibly build one.

The panels do look "fine" and the pitting is only revealed under close inspection, which no one will be doing.  Even from across the room you can't really tell.  But I know it's there!

I have been researching finishing MDF panels and I've seen a few people suggest using Minwax Sanding Sealer before priming.  It gets brushed on and soaks into the MDF without warping and then hardens the surface to accept paint.  You just have to knock it back with some 220 before priming.  Seems easy enough so I'm going to give it a shot on the second cabinet.  I'm also going to brush on all of the coats.  The pitting is definitely caused by the roller and I think slight brush strokes will look nicer on a piece of "furniture" than the stippling that you get from the roller.  It's going to take forever.  One of these days I'll figure out the perfect finish but not this time...

EDIT: I just spent an hour hand sanding the pits out of both the top panel and the top back panel (above the back door) and brushed another layer of paint on.  I didn't sand the pits down before trying to cover it with the last coat so hopefully this makes it look better.  Either way, this is it.  I'll do the same thing to the front panel tomorrow.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on October 13, 2021, 07:24:34 pm
You can minimise stippling from a roller by using a roller with a short nap and adding a little thinner (or water for acrylic) to reduce the paint's viscosity - that way the paint will tend to drop down flat rather than sitting up. You need a good eye and even hand and have to work fast to apply the paint before it dries too much.

But I agree wholeheartedly, it is seems not worth too much effort, and you should be able to achieve a good enough result with a brush as well.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 13, 2021, 08:08:33 pm
You can minimise stippling from a roller by using a roller with a short nap and adding a little thinner (or water for acrylic) to reduce the paint's viscosity - that way the paint will tend to drop down flat rather than sitting up. You need a good eye and even hand and have to work fast to apply the paint before it dries too much.

But I agree wholeheartedly, it is seems not worth too much effort, and you should be able to achieve a good enough result with a brush as well.
I added Floetrol to the paint to thin it out but it didnít help too much.  The repainted panels look better but still not perfect.  Certainly good enough.  This has taught me something - from now on I will spring for laminate every time.  Only downside is cost but itís much easier to put on the MDF and comes out looking great every time.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on October 14, 2021, 01:44:46 am
I have to agree about laminate.
Even when you factor in the cost of formica and glue it just saves SO much time that it is worth the money.
Especially if you are working with plywood and not MDF.

Never mind that the result is so durable and looks more clean and professional than my sloppy paint work as it is.

Of course if you can set up a work space like Ond does and have his level of skill with a good gun and material, well then...
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 15, 2021, 01:32:59 pm
I have to agree about laminate.
Even when you factor in the cost of formica and glue it just saves SO much time that it is worth the money.
Especially if you are working with plywood and not MDF.

Never mind that the result is so durable and looks more clean and professional than my sloppy paint work as it is.

Of course if you can set up a work space like Ond does and have his level of skill with a good gun and material, well then...

I think I'm going to buy a $50 HVLP spray gun from Home Depot this afternoon for the second cabinet and just use my back yard as my paint booth.  I watched like 50 YouTube videos of people spraying giant speakers and they come out amazing and a lot of them are just painting outside.  I know pollen and bugs are a thing but hopefully I'll avoid it. 

I just put the SEVENTH coat of paint on some panels for the first cabinet.  I did not like the way the semi-gloss paint dried at all.  The sheen is so so bad and highlights every imperfection - actually made it way worse than the initial roll on of flat black.  So I sanded that off and am trying again - rolling on flat black!  Full circle.  It's a sickness.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Ond on October 15, 2021, 02:55:14 pm
There's so many opinions on surface finishing aren't there  :D . Do this, don't do that, I've given advice on surface finishing and painting so many times too  :lol . Many people really hate that part of cabinet building, I don't, I like the process but that's probably because I've found what works best for me.  Instead of written tips, which I think have limited value, I'm going to do some videos on upcoming surface prep and painting I'm doing in my Pac-Man Legion thread.

Like me, in your own way, you're a bit of a perfectionist javeryh, always trying to learn better ways to do things and not settling for average or mediocre when 'perfect' seems within reach.  I agree with both attitudes to surface finishing i.e. near enough is good enough and perfection.  I won't obsess over cab parts or surfaces that people can't see or interior surfaces for instances - why bother? I'll go to extremes (sometimes) to achieve a particular look for something I had a really clear idea about.

Your work is of a high standard, always has been.  It's inspired me over the years.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 15, 2021, 05:19:18 pm
There's so many opinions on surface finishing aren't there  :D . Do this, don't do that, I've given advice on surface finishing and painting so many times too  :lol . Many people really hate that part of cabinet building, I don't, I like the process but that's probably because I've found what works best for me.  Instead of written tips, which I think have limited value, I'm going to do some videos on upcoming surface prep and painting I'm doing in my Pac-Man Legion thread.

Like me, in your own way, you're a bit of a perfectionist javeryh, always trying to learn better ways to do things and not settling for average or mediocre when 'perfect' seems within reach.  I agree with both attitudes to surface finishing i.e. near enough is good enough and perfection.  I won't obsess over cab parts or surfaces that people can't see or interior surfaces for instances - why bother? I'll go to extremes (sometimes) to achieve a particular look for something I had a really clear idea about.

Your work is of a high standard, always has been.  It's inspired me over the years.

Thanks Ond - appreciate the comment especially coming from you since your skill level is what we all aspire to.  It's not that I hate painting - it's not my favorite thing but when it comes out nice or the way I envision it in my head I get excited about it.  This has been an exercise in frustration for some reason.  Probably since it has been so long since I've tried using standard paint on a cabinet.  The last time was on my Donkey Kong and it came out amazing.  Sherwin-Williams semi-gloss with a nap roller and it came out incredible.  It still looks factory fresh.  There is orange peel but it really looks nice for some reason.  Maybe the paint quality does make a huge difference?  Or maybe I am expecting too much from black paint vs. a color.

I live very close to a Harbor Freight and they sell a $15 HVLP spray gun.  Pretty decent results from what I can tell from YouTube.  I'm going to give it a shot with some "good" paint and adding Floetrol and water until I get the right viscosity.  I'll sand the cabinet down one last time.  If it works, I can assemble the second one in under an hour since everything is already cut and then spray it.  How hard can it be?   :lol
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: opt2not on October 15, 2021, 06:16:31 pm
Personally I get great results with rattle cans and wet-sanding. But Iím meticulous and patient to get that surface smooth. I stock pretty much every grit of sandpaper I can find and have multiple electric sanders of different sizes to help out.
Itís what works for me. But I can understand how it might be a bit grueling to others. I just find the painting process relaxing. ;)

I used to roll. But I found I couldnít get even paint distribution as I can with a spray can. The spraying actually saves me time, but then gets negated by the sanding. :lol
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on October 15, 2021, 09:56:19 pm
I think I'm going to buy a $50 HVLP spray gun from Home Depot this afternoon for the second cabinet and just use my back yard as my paint booth.  I watched like 50 YouTube videos of people spraying giant speakers and they come out amazing and a lot of them are just painting outside.  I know pollen and bugs are a thing but hopefully I'll avoid it. 

Yeah, you'll be fine for "speaker box" matt finished side panels. Just need a nice sunny day with little wind and no rain. 

If you want to spray gloss or semi-gloss for control panels and other bits you'll want to repurpose a large cardboard box for a booth, to keep dust off your work while it dries as much as containing the paint.

Many places have environmental regs relating to uncontained spray painting outdoors, at least in urban areas. Mostly it comes down to how much you're doing, where, who is downwind and of course who knows you are doing it. People probably won't care about a quick rattle-can job in your backyard on a few small pieces, but larger work over an extended period and compressors attract more attention.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 17, 2021, 03:32:39 pm
Well - cabinet #1 is ready for final sanding and the final coat of paint.  Got the top 2 panels on the back and some rails for the back door to rest against.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211017/7ef8c5648ad9bfe18e1a7fdfbccab02f.jpg)

The panels are super rough since I sanded the gloss off so Iím committed to spraying with the HVLP gun I bought.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211017/a5b2771c2c72bffa35d2f6bae625d2f7.jpg)

I sprung for the regulator to control pressure a little better.  Iím going to practice with primer on the panels for cabinet #2 which I just got done sealing with some Sanding Sealer.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211017/490e8e307d8e1339c694bbc196494829.jpg)
 
I brushed on a super light coat and itís drying now.  Iím supposed to give it a light sanding before painting.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211017/f26813ef318eb8c12138fcd673bcecaf.jpg)

5 of the panels need to be sealed/pained on both sides so once this dries Iíll flip the over and finish the sealing.

Iím a little nervous about the paint but no guts no glory - Iím always trying to learn new skills and I think this one will be good to have.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on October 17, 2021, 04:04:32 pm
Good to see you've taken the plunge to spray painting

Check out the video on Ond's Pacman Legion thread, see how carefully he mixes spray paint  :laugh2:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 17, 2021, 04:42:36 pm
Good to see you've taken the plunge to spray painting

Check out the video on Ond's Pacman Legion thread, see how carefully he mixes spray paint  :laugh2:
I saw haha.  I canít believe how thin the paint is.  I have latex and some floetrol and Iíll add some water before spraying.  Iíve watched a ton of videos - it looks so simple but I know in practice thatís rarely the case. 

Iím excited though - worse case scenario is I get to deliver 2 crappy looking cabinets at Christmas.  I wonít have to look at them!
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 21, 2021, 02:36:50 pm
Spraying was a total failure.  I could not get the paint to come out of the gun.  It was mostly air.  I thinned the paint so much too it was almost water consistency.  I don't know what I was doing wrong but I guess I'm back to the rollers and I'll just live with a sub-par paint job.

I added 4:1:1 paint:floetrol:water.  WAY too thick so I added another 3/4 cup of water and it seemed like broth consistency - very very thin.  Would not pass through the gun.  Could have been the air flow too - the gun is so cheap that it didn't make a good connection with the hose (I could hear air leaking the whole time).  When I had the regulator on the bottom of the gun it was 10x worse - I could feel a strong breeze coming from it so I ditched it.  Turning the knob on the regulator did nothing.  I could not get any pressure whatsoever but I didn't want to increase it on my tank past 45psi which was the max for the gun.

Looking at some youtube videos it seems maybe the tip is too small for latex - it's 1.4mm and 2.0 is recommended.  People are drilling out the tips.  Not sure I want to go down that path - I've wasted so much time on this I just need to paint and move on, which I will do later today.  2 coats of primer rolled on today with a foam roller and then 2 top coats of black tomorrow.  Then assembly and then a final coat of black paint.  Should I try rattlecan black for the top coat?

I have to get past this if I have any hope of finishing these by Christmas...

:angry:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Ond on October 21, 2021, 03:12:19 pm
That's so annoying isn't it?  I have to step away from projects and go for a walk or something when stuff like that happens (it does happen).  A rattle can solution is probably the way to go.  Try and find a quality product.  I have used the Rust-Oleum range before and it's quite good. Try for low-sheen or flat black in a rattle can.  Black gloss is tricky stuff to get looking good using ANY method.

BTW the roller solution is fine but to get a smooth finish anywhere near rattle-can smooth you need to use a roller with a really short nap or fine foam roller - that's quite good with latex paint.

A panel sprayed horizontally with flat black or low sheen should always get pleasing results.  You'll get there, take a short breather though.  :)
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 21, 2021, 04:39:58 pm
That's so annoying isn't it?  I have to step away from projects and go for a walk or something when stuff like that happens (it does happen).  A rattle can solution is probably the way to go.  Try and find a quality product.  I have used the Rust-Oleum range before and it's quite good. Try for low-sheen or flat black in a rattle can.  Black gloss is tricky stuff to get looking good using ANY method.

BTW the roller solution is fine but to get a smooth finish anywhere near rattle-can smooth you need to use a roller with a really short nap or fine foam roller - that's quite good with latex paint.

A panel sprayed horizontally with flat black or low sheen should always get pleasing results.  You'll get there, take a short breather though.  :)

I wish I could step away but I need every free minute to finish by Christmas!  I have Rustoleum in the can right now (flat black) and I need to make a trip to Home Depot to return a bunch of the painting supplies I bought that I no longer need so I could pick up a couple of rattlecans of Rustoleum flat black for the top coat while I'm there.

Right now I'm putting on the Kilz primer thinned with some Floetrol using a fine foam roller so that should lay on pretty flat.  Once it dries in an hour or so I'll put on the second coat and then sand and apply the top coats tomorrow.  I'm also thinking about adding a water-based poly on top of the panels that are visible.

I just can't believe the difficulty I'm having with this part.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on October 21, 2021, 06:06:41 pm
That's how I'd do it javery, if I was in your situation. Roller on a couple of coats, light sanding, finish with the spray can (matt/flat black) for top coat.

Maybe there is someone with spray painting experience at the hardware store, you can maybe get some tips to work out what you're going wrong with the gun.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 24, 2021, 02:39:44 pm
That's how I'd do it javery, if I was in your situation. Roller on a couple of coats, light sanding, finish with the spray can (matt/flat black) for top coat.

Maybe there is someone with spray painting experience at the hardware store, you can maybe get some tips to work out what you're going wrong with the gun.

Second cabinet came out WAY better than the first one.  I think I found the right mix of paint to floetrol to water plus after rolling on with a nap roller I went over each panel with a high density foam roller to remove the orange peel.  I did not apply any pressure whatsoever - it was a dry roller when I started and only ended up with a little bit of paint on it but it really smoothed out the paint.  It's still not perfect but it's much better.  I will still laminate going forward but at least this isn't a complete abomination.

What do you guys think about a couple of coats of water-based poly on top?  The paint is kind of chalky and it seems very susceptible to scratches.  I would brush on the poly and just hope a clear protective layer forms nicely on top.

I'm assembling Cabinet #2 right now and the plan is to spray the front and top with rattlecan black tomorrow (I have some filled nail holes I need to cover).  I should then be in a position to apply the woodgrain vinyl and t-molding and these will start looking like real cabs....

 :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: SpaceHedgehog on October 25, 2021, 11:30:11 am
Glad to see things working themselves out  :cheers:

I've had good results with water based poly over chalkboard paint - it does required that light touch with a roller that you mentioned to get a consistent finish:

(https://i.imgur.com/wb7eWeH.jpg)
Title: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 30, 2021, 12:46:11 pm
Well... I decided to sand down the cabinets one last time.  I screwed up by using flat black paint.  It feels chalky to the touch and is impossible to clean - you can't wipe it down at all.  Seems like an enamel or at least an eggshell paint would work a lot better.  I am headed to Home Depot in about 10 minutes to return a bunch of junk and pick up the Wagner 3500 paint sprayer and try my luck.  I found out that my compressor was never going to be strong enough for the purple Harbor Freight gun, which is probably why I was having so much trouble with it.  Who knew? It can drive nails through cement but not paint through a gun.

I'm not sure how far down to sand so I'm trying a little experiment.  One cabinet, I tried removing all of the pitting with 220 grit sandpaper and it took me 2 hours to sand just the front panel and it's still not perfect although it is very smooth to the touch.  The other cabinet, I just kind of roughed up with the 220 sandpaper.  It also feels relatively smooth but I finished sanding that cab in about 15 minutes.  I am going to spray both with the Wagner 3500 and if there is no noticeable difference I'll know that just knocking back the last coat is OK for the next one.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211030/a08c12a938dc2fe256f1519c6d30a723.jpg) (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211030/fe1409def8b90e4f38f0cadadc9e769e.jpg)

The first cabinet is the one I sanded like crazy and the second cabinet is the one I just spent 15 minutes on.  No matter what, after I spray I'm done with painting.  I have to move on.  It's basically November and I have a ton left to do to hit my Christmas deadline.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on October 30, 2021, 05:16:57 pm
You could try a semi-gloss finish

With the rattle-can paint, not all cans are the same. Even if they say the same thing on the side. Again, it can be worth chatting to the guy/gal at the store to see what they think.

What I've done before is to buy 3 different brands of cans and try them out on a small piece, to see how it goes. Some are better than others. Or hopefully your new spray gun will sort you out :D

Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 30, 2021, 05:27:20 pm
You could try a semi-gloss finish

With the rattle-can paint, not all cans are the same. Even if they say the same thing on the side. Again, it can be worth chatting to the guy/gal at the store to see what they think.

What I've done before is to buy 3 different brands of cans and try them out on a small piece, to see how it goes. Some are better than others. Or hopefully your new spray gun will sort you out :D

I bought a gallon of Valspar Furniture Paint at Lowe's.  It's water-based but they call it an "oil-enriched enamel" and it is specifically made for painting furniture.  According to the can you have to wait 8-12 hours to put on a second coat and it takes at least 3 days to dry.  I got it in black with a satin finish.  The semi-gloss seemed too reflective.  This is supposed to dry to a hard protective shell that is smooth to the touch.  I also picked up the Wagner Flexio 3500 sprayer.  Dropped $250 just for this paint job LOL.  But if it works, I have two end tables that need to be refinished and I'm sure I'll find other uses for the sprayer... my youngest daughter needs her room gutted and redone, etc.

I'm not sure if I should thin this paint - on the can it says "do not thin" but I haven't opened it yet so I have no idea about the viscosity.  I'm excited to try this - I've never had a proper set up for painting before and most of the reviews I've seen about this sprayer are very positive.  I just hope it doesn't rain tomorrow.  Weather is getting dicey.  65 degrees and getting colder every day.  In a couple of weeks I won't be able to paint until April.   :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on October 30, 2021, 06:10:48 pm
I'm not sure if I should thin this paint - on the can it says "do not thin" but I haven't opened it yet so I have no idea about the viscosity.


Just ask they paint staff at the store - it most cases they'll be able to advise. If not, follow the instructions I guess.


Quote
I'm excited to try this - I've never had a proper set up for painting before and most of the reviews I've seen about this sprayer are very positive.  I just hope it doesn't rain tomorrow.  Weather is getting dicey.  65 degrees and getting colder every day.  In a couple of weeks I won't be able to paint until April.   :cheers:

Yeah, I'm loving the cool weather coming, but then I'm in a tropical area now so it is a blessing.

When I was in Canberra I painted control panels and such well into the freezing winter by using a large box spraybooth and a small bar radiator heater. If metal, let it warm up in position for a few minutes before spraying for best effects. Not practical for large pieces/outside, but good for small pieces.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 30, 2021, 07:52:31 pm
Just ask they paint staff at the store - it most cases they'll be able to advise. If not, follow the instructions I guess.

I know you arenít in the US but thereís less than 1% chance that the person behind the paint counter at Loweís/Home Depot knows anything about the paint he/she is selling.  Iíd have to go to a specialty shop for that and then a gallon of paint would be around $70 instead of the $50 I paid.

Whenever you or bobby post about your locations it makes me want to travel.  NJ is nice but it beats you downÖ
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on October 30, 2021, 08:29:22 pm
Just ask they paint staff at the store - it most cases they'll be able to advise. If not, follow the instructions I guess.

I know you arenít in the US but thereís less than 1% chance that the person behind the paint counter at Loweís/Home Depot knows anything about the paint he/she is selling.  Iíd have to go to a specialty shop for that and then a gallon of paint would be around $70 instead of the $50 I paid.

Whenever you or bobby post about your locations it makes me want to travel.  NJ is nice but it beats you downÖ

When I say ask at the paint section, I'm thinking about an Australian Bunnings store or similar place. They have staff dedicated to each section, so they usually have some reasonably experienced people working in relevant areas. Not always of course, but I know enough about paint generally to gauge whether they know their stuff.

Obviously I don't know your US paint stores, but if getting the right advice means you pay $70 instead of $50, it may be worth it. You can always buy the next tub at the cheaper place.

That asking advice strategy is pretty useless in rural Thailand - most of the "tradespeople" here have relatively little experience, or only experience relevant to painting a house. Aside from the difficulties of talking about these technicalities in a second language, the staff employed at the bigger hardware stores are usually inexperienced kids who will just recommend some completely inappropriate product. I often just have to do my own research and buy online (even paints/oils) as the local stores won't even have it.

We built our own house here and I miss Australian tradies. I'm a soft-hearted guy but I've had to sack more than one Thai painter that can't be bothered learning things like loading less onto the brush and backbrushing (y'know, working the colour into the wood, rather than leaving a layer on top). Takes a little longer, but then you see the woodgrain rather than an opaque layer of stain that will peel off once a bit or water gets under it. Some people think because they painted in pre-school they are somehow qualified.

These are some of the prices we pay to live in Paradise :D
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on October 31, 2021, 09:15:49 am
Good point about spending the extra $20.  Definitely worth it in the long run.  As usual though I'm so over-budget with these cabs it's not even funny.  It started out as "how quick and cheap can I build one of these things" and has morphed into another all-consuming project that I want to make perfect.  I definitely have mental problems. 

Thailand really sounds like a nice place to live but I'm afraid the closest I'll ever get is the Thai food I had for dinner last night.  Soooooo good.

Looks like the rain is supposed to hold off today so I'm going to lug the cabinets out to the garage to spray them.  I need to practice with the sprayer first and I want to get both coats on today.  Waiting 8-12 hours to put on the second coat seems insane to me.  I'm a little nervous about leaving them in the garage overnight to dry because it has been dropping down to the 40s at night which probably isn't great for drying.  My hope is that by 8 p.m. or so they are dry enough to move back to the basement.   :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on October 31, 2021, 07:23:29 pm
You may want to consider safer options for heating to assist drying. Open heaters can be dangerous of course, and garages are typically not well insulated. If you're going to heat an area like that while it dries you should "supervise", stay close and keep an eye on things. Do some work nearby or something. I like working at night. Nothing like watching paint dry ;)

My wife is a great cook, even western food. Especially western food. Initially I taught her some stuff, then she found Masterchef and youtube. Now she "owns" the kitchen, I just turn up to get food/coffee and wash dishes occasionally, and it is out of my control entirely :D

If we don't want to cook, it is easy to buy some yummy Thai food for $1-2, few dollars more for farang food, even get it delivered.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 01, 2021, 04:05:37 pm
OK... I might be trashing these cabs.  Should have never skipped the laminate.  Wow.

I don't understand.  I sanded them back and just sprayed on a coat paint and you can see every single blemish.  There were a few spots where I sanded through to the primer and a few other spots where I filled some nail holes and all of those spots are a different shade of black.  Looks like someone took a sharpie to the front of the cabinet.  Maybe a second coat tomorrow will help but if not I'm going to use a brush and a roller on Wednesday and either move on or trash these things.  I'm too frustrated at this point and the Christmas deadline is making me miserable.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on November 01, 2021, 05:14:52 pm
Gosh, hang in there
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on November 02, 2021, 01:20:49 am
Black is frustrating because it shows EVERything.

I know you want them to be perfect of course but it is ok to accept "ok" as regards the finish and then just keep going!

If you can stand to just foam roller them or spray and just do light sanding in between you will get them smooth enough.

The people getting them are going to be so stoked about them that they will not care AT ALL if the panel finish is perfect.

You accepting it is of course something entirely different!

I refuse to be beaten by inanimate objects myself.

Another capable human being...?  Sure.

Cabinet...?

Hell no.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 02, 2021, 10:54:26 am
Thanks guys... well, the first coat dried and it looks kind of OK.  Better than I initially thought.  I'm about to put the second coat on but it's so weird to me that the blemishes are showing through like there wasn't enough coverage.  All of the nail holes that I filled are visible.  They were sanded flush but you can still see the white through the black paint and same thing in areas where I sanded back to the primer.  It's very strange.  I'm really hoping that a second coat will hide everything.  The sprayer did a decent job, I think. 

At least I'm not as discouraged as I was right after painting yesterday.

EDIT: Second coat is on.  Coverage seems OK although you can still see the nail holes somehow.  Depending on how this dries, I might end up trying to fill the holes ever so slightly.  I'm starting to winder if the putty came loose during sanding.  I'll probably spray on one more thin coat tomorrow and call it.  Hopefully most of the attention will be on the woodgrain siding or the screen, which should both come out great...

EDIT 2: I think this is going to work.  The spray gun is putting on a very nice coat.  Smoother than I ever could have achieved with a roller although still not *perfect* but definitely good enough even for me.  Second coat dried but I could still see some pin nail holes on the front panel so I just took some putty and filled them all in.  I guess the putty popped out of those holes when I did the full sanding down to 220 grit - it felt flat to me but I guess not.

I'm going to do one final coat of paint after sanding down the putty.  It's 50 degrees out so hopefully it will dry so I can sand in about 2 hours... not looking forward to roughing up the nice surface.  My kid has a XC race so I don't have much time and I really want to get the third and final coat on today. I also noticed that on the top back panel of one of them I got a run so I will sand that out too.  Looks like I'll be able to bring both cabs into the house tomorrow afternoon.  Finally.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 03, 2021, 06:14:32 pm
Well, they look good in the dark. 

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211103/b26adbc19e69f635d53bd45c64af065a.jpg)

I think this is the final coat but Iíll know more tomorrow. 

Adding the wood grain vinyl and t-molding is next and should be easy.  I do have to prime each side one at a time and then sand smooth but thatís no big deal.  Slow and steady.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: vertexguy on November 03, 2021, 09:49:26 pm
Way to perserviere Javery!  Those coats are looking good from my vantage point.  Keep it up!   :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on November 04, 2021, 12:47:54 am
Nice job staying tough.

They are going to look excellent!
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: wp34 on November 04, 2021, 10:53:38 am
Glad you are still at it.   :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 04, 2021, 11:34:48 am
Thanks guys.  I'm a little nervous to check on them today... it got below freezing last night and they are in my unheated detached garage.  Should be OK but still.  Also, I am afraid the nail holes will be visible on the one cab no matter what.  I figured out the issue - the pins did not go below the surface of the MDF.  I guess I didn't have enough pressure in the tank.  They are almost flush so there is little to no hole to actually fill so I am essentially painting the tiny rectangular nail head.  If I have time, I may get creative with some artwork for the front.  Maybe some colored stripes along the sides or something.  Not sure. 

So... now it's on to the control panel layout/design.  I'm going for ultra-simplicity here.  These are 4-way, 2 button cabs.  I'm not sure if I should do mirrored controls or just a standard off center layout or a combo of sorts:

Mirrored Layout (action buttons do same thing on both sides)
(https://i.imgur.com/neIUKBx.png)

Offset Layout
(https://i.imgur.com/bcqcfps.png)

Centered Layout
(https://i.imgur.com/taztAy4.png)

I like the joystick centered but honestly, the extra buttons might confuse the intended audience if I mirror the button layout so right now the "Centered Layout" is what I'm leaning towards.  The main design issue here (as usual) is the placement and functionality of the admin buttons.  The way I am setting things up is any button on the CP will start the game on the list and you need a 2-button combo to exit back to the list (pause and P1 start, I think).  Coins will be via the coin door.  I'm going to need a creative way to make this obvious on the CPO.  I need to think on this some more.

Color scheme will be black CPO with white buttons and a white balltop.

 :cheers:

Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on November 04, 2021, 01:13:54 pm
The bartops I have been making for friends here I have been using the mirrored/ambidextrous layout and once you explain it to people it seems to get reasonable use of both banks of buttons.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: leapinlew on November 04, 2021, 04:30:15 pm
Popped in to see how things are going and was not disappointed. Keep it up buddy!

I know you arenít in the US but thereís less than 1% chance that the person behind the paint counter at Loweís/Home Depot knows anything about the paint he/she is selling.
So true.... and so funny.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on November 04, 2021, 09:39:27 pm
I know you arenít in the US but thereís less than 1% chance that the person behind the paint counter at Loweís/Home Depot knows anything about the paint he/she is selling.
So true.... and so funny.

I miss the Aussie hardware stores, where the people in the paint section actually know paint (well, at least 50% chance anyway!)

Reminds me, I used to live with a guy that was an assistant manager for a small hardware store. He knew his stuff and was good with people. He would spend all day giving people hardware advice, then would play piano at gigs and jazz bars during the evening, like he was Billy Joel or something. He was always ready for a toke or a light of your smoke too. Even had a hot, younger (but also nice) girlfriend. Very cool guy, breezing through life.
Title: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 06, 2021, 06:20:41 pm
Moving along... the paint has dried pretty good now that I got the cabinets out of the cold.  Today I started to prime and sand the sides and put on the woodgrain vinyl and t-molding.  It came out great but as soon as I opened the vinyl I realized I ordered (or they shipped me) the wrong color.  It was supposed to be a darker woodgrain but whatever... they aren't mine.

I used one coat of Kilz and sanded with 220 to seal the surface so the glue on the vinyl won't seep into the MDF.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211106/6ab679bc5f3445e9b4c77a901e5f427d.jpg)

The next shot is me trying to apply the vinyl myself and effing it up so I had to get the wife for an extra set of arms.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211106/bd163e1286a425009ff4cc3be31c5fde.jpg)

Here's the vinyl applied and the excess trimmed with a fresh razor.  I love that part.  I've also started the t-molding.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211106/b06a101096cb777d05131c051d5379e5.jpg)

And here is where it currently stands with one side done.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211106/69d7e40b5c6ad7951e723482a1736000.jpg)

This design is so elegant it's almost impossible to mess up even though I'm trying my best.  I'll finish the other 3 sides tomorrow and start installing the coin doors, speaker grills, etc.  I also want to cut the blanks for the CPs - those are the last bit of woodworking I need to do and it's getting really cold.   :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: SpaceHedgehog on November 06, 2021, 06:33:37 pm
Looks like itís all coming together rather well. Nice going jarveryh  :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 06, 2021, 07:47:52 pm
Looks like itís all coming together rather well. Nice going jarveryh  :cheers:
Thanks.  Iím pretty happy with how things are going considering last week I was super frustrated.  I often donít see the forest through the trees and forget that if you do B+ work every step of the way you get something that looks like an A.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: vertexguy on November 06, 2021, 08:44:39 pm
Don't beat yourself up so much.  That's looking really nice and I'd be blown away if someone hand made something like that for me as a gift.  These are gonna turn out great.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Mike A on November 07, 2021, 07:26:04 am
It's a ---smurfing--- box with a tv in it.
Even a ---smurfy--- circular saw will make squared cuts as long as you set the base plate correctly to begin with.
We are building arcade cabs not Mars rovers...well except for Laythe. He kind of is building a NASA project. That metal working requires an extra level of precision, skills, and tools.
Yeah, Iím not worried about this at all.  Iím actually trying to be less anal with these cabs so Iím going to try cuts with the circular saw and some brads to assemble.  Should be doable in a weekend, right?  Itís just a ---smurfing--- box!

 ;D
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 07, 2021, 09:14:19 am
It's a ---smurfing--- box with a tv in it.
Even a ---smurfy--- circular saw will make squared cuts as long as you set the base plate correctly to begin with.
We are building arcade cabs not Mars rovers...well except for Laythe. He kind of is building a NASA project. That metal working requires an extra level of precision, skills, and tools.
Yeah, Iím not worried about this at all.  Iím actually trying to be less anal with these cabs so Iím going to try cuts with the circular saw and some brads to assemble.  Should be doable in a weekend, right?  Itís just a ---smurfing--- box!

 ;D

Ugh. I should have never stopped drinking. I was a lot more relaxed back then.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: PL1 on November 07, 2021, 04:58:37 pm
Ugh. I should have never stopped drinking. I was a lot more relaxed back then.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/63/9a/48/639a48f89c29ed83d2f6c390d5a72db7.jpg)

 :lol


Scott
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: 601 Arcades on November 08, 2021, 05:20:29 am
I am going to spray both with the Wagner 3500 and if there is no noticeable difference I'll know that just knocking back the last coat is OK for the next one.

THIS! I know this is old and the time has passed but maybe this tidbit can help you in the future. That wagner will do better for you than the HF air HVLP. So much can come into the situation with air. Moisture, the gun is harder to setup 'just right', air flow to paint ratio, etc.

When I sprayed my first cabinet I shot it with a HF HVLP Air gun. Hated the result. Went and grabbed a Wagner  Flexio 590 (I think that's the model) and some Rustoleum satin black, thinned it down with the viscosity cup as per the direction, and the finish was gorgeous. I could see if we were all making cabinets on an assembly line, how the air would make more sense, but for 1-5 cabs a year, I'd stick with the wagner. It will do exactly what you want it to do, without all the extra variables of the air compressor and gun.

JUST MY OPINION, and what has worked for me!
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Mike A on November 08, 2021, 06:16:05 am
Personally I think the sobriety is the problem.

Everything was going great until then.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 08, 2021, 09:31:25 am
I am going to spray both with the Wagner 3500 and if there is no noticeable difference I'll know that just knocking back the last coat is OK for the next one.

THIS! I know this is old and the time has passed but maybe this tidbit can help you in the future. That wagner will do better for you than the HF air HVLP. So much can come into the situation with air. Moisture, the gun is harder to setup 'just right', air flow to paint ratio, etc.

When I sprayed my first cabinet I shot it with a HF HVLP Air gun. Hated the result. Went and grabbed a Wagner  Flexio 590 (I think that's the model) and some Rustoleum satin black, thinned it down with the viscosity cup as per the direction, and the finish was gorgeous. I could see if we were all making cabinets on an assembly line, how the air would make more sense, but for 1-5 cabs a year, I'd stick with the wagner. It will do exactly what you want it to do, without all the extra variables of the air compressor and gun.

JUST MY OPINION, and what has worked for me!

I got excellent results from the Wagner once I figured out what I was doing.  Took me 4 coats plus using the right paint was critical.  I used Valspar Furniture Paint (the "oil-enriched" paint that's actually latex).  It goes on pretty OK but levels out as it dries.  It's really remarkable.  I had to wait 8-12 hours per the instructions to add another coat, so I did one coat a day for 4 days in a row.  It takes 3 days before you are supposed to be able to touch it and could take much longer to fully cure.  It smells like oil for sure - even now, over a week after spraying I can still smell a faint odor coming from the cabinets as the paint fully cures.  But the paint now looks like a hard shell and not an orange peel mess like I thought immediately after spraying.

The Wagner had decent reviews - professionals seem to hate it but DIY people seem to love it so it is definitely perfect for the couple of times a year I'll use it.

Personally I think the sobriety is the problem.

Everything was going great until then.

It's an issue for sure.  I actually stopped drinking regularly like 10 years ago.  I still have a few drinks around the holidays or when I meet up with friends but I've completely cut out everything else.  This year so far I've had a few drinks over 4th of July weekend and not a single drop otherwise.  I used to be waaaaaaaay more relaxed when I was drinking regularly but it makes me feel like ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- now and I get up early for the gym every morning and I just can't do both any more because I'm old.  I hate it.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 08, 2021, 05:59:11 pm
Got some more work done today.  All 4 sides are now covered with the wood grain vinyl and all of the t-molding has been installed.  I also put the coin doors in place - they are starting to take shape. 

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211108/2b0f8741660567d1534e1ad888ef7665.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211108/0c283b0d4cce5be4fdc6d94d1df0b4f2.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211108/85204f76a0cb913b5854e631a72ccc54.jpg)

Nice little row going on here.  Tomorrow Iím going to cut the blanks for the control panels.  I wanted to get that done today but I didnít find the time.

Still have the monitor, controls, speakers, etc. to order this week.  Once i get the CP blanks I can measure for the glass and order that as well.  Doesnít seem like a lot left but there a long list of little things that add up.  I think Iíll be able to hit my Christmas deadline thoughÖ
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: vertexguy on November 08, 2021, 06:32:43 pm
Those blend right in with everything else there!  Paint jobs look perfect to me, matching everything around it well in the photos.  Nice work man!  :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on November 08, 2021, 07:07:02 pm
Looks damn sweet to me! If  I got really close and saw something imperfect about the paint, I wouldn't care. Top marks!
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 08, 2021, 07:45:02 pm
Thanks guys - the weird thing is that the more time that passes the better the paint job looks.  Itís curing slowly and smoothing out ever so slightly.  It does look pretty good right now.

I need to figure out what to do next.  I can install the speaker grills I guess but then Iím out of stuff until I start placing some orders.

Any recommendations on a good 4-way?
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: vertexguy on November 08, 2021, 08:24:43 pm
The Ms Pacman Anniversary HAPP stick was what was recommended to me and I'm intending on using in mine.   It has a little shorter shaft length than others if that matters with your mount.  Gosh though with all those other cabs of yours I'd think you'd have picked out your favorite 4 way by now?!  :P
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on November 08, 2021, 09:27:47 pm
Thanks guys - the weird thing is that the more time that passes the better the paint job looks.  Itís curing slowly and smoothing out ever so slightly.  It does look pretty good right now.

This usually happens for me too, once I've let a few scotches and scoobs settle ;D
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on November 09, 2021, 12:55:09 am
They look sweet.

Off center coin door was a good call too.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: 601 Arcades on November 10, 2021, 12:06:10 am
Personally I think the sobriety is the problem.

Everything was going great until then.

LOL THIS 100%
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: 601 Arcades on November 10, 2021, 12:14:08 am

I used Valspar Furniture Paint (the "oil-enriched" paint that's actually latex).

That's good to know! I used Rustoleum Satin Black (oil) thinned with acetone (gorgeous finish) because that's something I read about decals sticking best to. I think it was Szabo's site that said that. But I have been seeing alot more lately, about people painting their cabs with latex and having no issues. I appreciate that paint reference! I'll definitely be giving that a try since I'd rather clean up with water rather than mineral spirits.

Those are looking amazing! I read this entire post a month or so ago, but I can't remember now. Are you designing these or following plans/donor cab? They're turning out so awesome! Makes me wanna build one, or something simular for the livingroom and make it a multicade for the spousal unit. She likes frogger & q-bert etc things I wouldn't build a dedicated cab for, ever. LOL
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 10, 2021, 07:33:43 pm
The Ms Pacman Anniversary HAPP stick was what was recommended to me and I'm intending on using in mine.   It has a little shorter shaft length than others if that matters with your mount.  Gosh though with all those other cabs of yours I'd think you'd have picked out your favorite 4 way by now?!  :P

Thanks.  I might check out that stick.  I usually use JLFs and I really like them.  Probably good enough for this project too but they are 4/8 ways with the restrictor plate.  A proper Ms. Pac-Man stick is something I've always wanted to try at home.

They look sweet.

Off center coin door was a good call too.

Thanks - yeah, I'm really glad I went with the off-center door.  It adds a little bit of interest to an otherwise bland front panel.  Hopefully the marquee helps too when I get that sorted.  I really need to get on with designing the CPO... but I hate Inkscape.

Those are looking amazing! I read this entire post a month or so ago, but I can't remember now. Are you designing these or following plans/donor cab? They're turning out so awesome! Makes me wanna build one, or something simular for the livingroom and make it a multicade for the spousal unit. She likes frogger & q-bert etc things I wouldn't build a dedicated cab for, ever. LOL

Thanks - I'm not following any plans really.  This is an evolution (or devolution?) of my Woodgrain Atari Cabaret, which itself was a variation on a profile that markc74 came up with for his Cube cabaret so that's kind of where it started.  I tweaked his design a little bit for the Woodgrain Atari Cabaret and then made a pattern out of 1/4" MDF in case I ever wanted to make another.  Then when I decided to make these, I wanted it to be simple so instead of the front bump I took it straight to the ground (and made another pattern in case I want to make another one of these, which I almost certainly will).  So to answer your question there are no plans with measurements.  After I figured out the profile, I measured in 3/8" all the way around and then took measurements for the interior panels that are posted in this thread but next time I think I'm going to do a 1/4" lip to make assembly easier with spacers.

There is also an old user by the name of Louis Tully who came up with the "tully" design which I guess is what this cabinet shape is based off of (hence the name of this thread)... but there are Nintendo cabarets and Atari cabarets that all have similar profiles.  The reason I like this one so much is because the top "peak" is a 90 degree angle.  This makes all of the joinery MUCH easier than if it was some random angle.  Also, you can fit one of these little cabs anywhere and they are super comfortable to play on.   :cheers:
Title: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 11, 2021, 01:03:51 pm
Question: is 4" too shallow for a control panel?  I have an old 19: LCD that I could cram into these things but mounting it vertically really eats into the real estate for the control panel (which was previously going to be 6-3/4" deep).

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211111/cc155ca7962049e4ae7cc70b88c0582b.jpg)

I was always planning on getting a 17Ē LCD for these but if I don't have to spend the money...

Also, the 19" should easily fit if I use it horizontally... but this wasn't the original intent of this project... BUT if a 17Ē vertically mounted screen will provide roughly the same size play area as the horizontal 19" screen running vertical games then what's the difference?

Would love to hear thoughts on this.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 11, 2021, 03:59:14 pm
OKÖworking out the rest of the front panel.  Which one looks best?

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211111/d70afc00170f0bf81aefa8c481011881.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211111/d5e088d566510c6ab9fa03a2332b17b8.jpg)

I like the rectangle better since it matches the shape of the coin door and the marquee but I also have a bunch of the round grills laying aroundÖ
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: BGoulette on November 11, 2021, 04:32:25 pm
I agree: the rectangular grille works better than those two round grilles, but, imho, mostly because those round grilles are right on top of each other. If they had more breathing room between them, they might be a viable alternative, but based on your photos, yeah, I think the rectangular grille is the winner.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: SpaceHedgehog on November 11, 2021, 04:42:01 pm
Top one, without a doubt.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 11, 2021, 05:08:19 pm
yeah... after staring at it for like 20 minutes I'm definitely going with the rectangular speaker cover.

Now I just need to sort out the monitor situation and it's off to the races ordering everything.  I'm probably going to just grab some 17" LCDs even though they are 5:4 aspect ratio.  They can be mounted vertically leaving me about 5" for the depth of the control panels.  Should be just enough room for such a simple setup. I think sticking to the rotated 17" monitor will be best considering almost all of the games on my image are vertical.  But I am curious as to whether you guys would throw a 19" in there horizontally since vertical games will still be roughly what they would be on a 17" monitor rotated.

As for horizontal games, I was only planning on including Tapper and Atari Tetris since they are great games.  Any other horizontal 4-way games I should think about?
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: 601 Arcades on November 12, 2021, 12:24:25 am
100000000000% the rectangle one. I am having trouble finding a speaker grill for my Centipede cabaret, and I'm thinking about giving up the search and just putting one of those same rectangle grills on it and being DONE with it. But I'm still in discussions with my OCD about it lmao
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: vertexguy on November 12, 2021, 01:24:21 am
I'd go with rectangle for a few reasons.  It stays consistent with the other shapes on the cabinet, and if this is mainly playing only a handful of the really older games they were all mostly mono, so 2 round grills feels more out of theme to me.  As for CP depth it depends on your choice for buttons and sticks and how you plan to mount them but I would think 4 inches height is plenty.  Pretty sure mine is 4.5 inches and that leaves a lot of room to spare.  I think you can mount JLFs in about 2 inches of space.  Ms pacman is a little thicker of a base so may need a bit more.  I dont have em in front of me to measure though.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: PL1 on November 12, 2021, 03:30:40 am
Question: is 4" too shallow for a control panel?  I have an old 19: LCD that I could cram into these things but mounting it vertically really eats into the real estate for the control panel (which was previously going to be 6-3/4" deep).

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211111/cc155ca7962049e4ae7cc70b88c0582b.jpg)
If you're talking 4" on the Y-axis between the silver monitor bezel and the back of the front panel as implied by the photo, that is a really tight fit.
- You might need to turn the stick so the long axis of the mounting plate is the X-axis, and maybe even use "flag" (right angle) QDs, solder on wire extensions with male QDs, and/or bend the tabs of the left/right microswitches.
- This is based on measurement checks on a Happ Super and a Zippyy.

If you're talking 4" on the Y-axis between the monitor and the front edge of the control panel, that is almost certainly not enough clearance for the stick and front panel.


Scott
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 12, 2021, 11:32:55 am
100000000000% the rectangle one. I am having trouble finding a speaker grill for my Centipede cabaret, and I'm thinking about giving up the search and just putting one of those same rectangle grills on it and being DONE with it. But I'm still in discussions with my OCD about it lmao

Definitely going with the rectangle.  It actually looks pretty good.  I had them leftover from a Midway cocktail cabinet that I gutted and got rid of.

I'd go with rectangle for a few reasons.  It stays consistent with the other shapes on the cabinet, and if this is mainly playing only a handful of the really older games they were all mostly mono, so 2 round grills feels more out of theme to me.  As for CP depth it depends on your choice for buttons and sticks and how you plan to mount them but I would think 4 inches height is plenty.  Pretty sure mine is 4.5 inches and that leaves a lot of room to spare.  I think you can mount JLFs in about 2 inches of space.  Ms pacman is a little thicker of a base so may need a bit more.  I dont have em in front of me to measure though.

I ended up buying J-Stiks from Ultimarc.  I really like the feel of the ServoStik and these are the same (I think) but without the servo.  THe mounting plates are 3.07" wide so I should be ale to cram them in a 4" panel... but I don't want to force it.  So I also ordered two 17" Dells (1280x1024, unfortunately) which should give me a little over 5" to play with.  Plenty of room... I think,

If you're talking 4" on the Y-axis between the monitor and the front edge of the control panel, that is almost certainly not enough clearance for the stick and front panel.

This is the measurement.  It was 4" from the bottom of the silver bezel to the FRONT of the front panel so yeah - 3.5" of actual usable space underneath.  Too tight, I think even with the 3.07" width of the mounting plate.  The 19" screen also looks kind of disproportionately large in the cabinet itself so I think scaling back to 17" is the right call.   :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: 10yard on November 12, 2021, 01:26:46 pm
I love this thread.   I haven't chimed in at all because you seem to have everything under control mate.  Good decision to go with the mame appliance simplicity and stay clear of that retroarch convolutedness.   If you build it,  they will come  :notworthy:.  The tully's look ace and I can see me being inspired to make one of these.  Those Xmas recipient are very lucky souls.  Thanks for the regular updates.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 12, 2021, 04:22:36 pm
I love this thread.   I haven't chimed in at all because you seem to have everything under control mate.  Good decision to go with the mame appliance simplicity and stay clear of that retroarch convolutedness.   If you build it,  they will come  :notworthy:.  The tully's look ace and I can see me being inspired to make one of these.  Those Xmas recipient are very lucky souls.  Thanks for the regular updates.

Thanks man.   :cheers:

You should definitely build one of these - they are so easy even though my ridiculous threads and stupid questions might lead you to believe otherwise.  Plus, you can really customize a lot staying within the basic design to make it your own thing.  I've actually thought about spraying the coin door and speaker cover white to match the buttons and balltop or picking a bright color for the side panels (like powder blue for a DK using your front end... hmmm....).  You can rearrange the front panel, use a dynamic marquee, make a spinner or trackball only control panel - the possibilities are endless!
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: vertexguy on November 12, 2021, 06:44:50 pm
I ended up buying J-Stiks from Ultimarc.  I really like the feel of the ServoStik and these are the same (I think) but without the servo.  THe mounting plates are 3.07" wide so I should be ale to cram them in a 4" panel... but I don't want to force it.  So I also ordered two 17" Dells (1280x1024, unfortunately) which should give me a little over 5" to play with.  Plenty of room... I think,

Whoops... my bad.  I thought you were talking about depth going down under the CP (under the joystick, I guess vertical space)  :banghead:  3.5" across the CP surface should allow for a JLF to mount sideways with enough room for the pin connector and support on all sides, so I can't imagine the JSticks being much different.

It's too bad you don't have enough room to mount 'em angled.  I hear that's an amazing experience.  ;)

Are you undermounting or surface mounting?
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 13, 2021, 03:28:09 pm
Whoops... my bad.  I thought you were talking about depth going down under the CP (under the joystick, I guess vertical space)  :banghead:  3.5" across the CP surface should allow for a JLF to mount sideways with enough room for the pin connector and support on all sides, so I can't imagine the JSticks being much different.

It's too bad you don't have enough room to mount 'em angled.  I hear that's an amazing experience.  ;)

Are you undermounting or surface mounting?

I'm undermounting and not worried about hiding the bolt holes.  I'm going to go right through the top of the CP with them to make sure the stick is extra secure.  Traditionally I like mounting underneath and using blocks or whatever so I don't have to come through the top of the CP but I need this to stand up to some rough play.

On that note... anyone know where can I get some black carriage bolts?
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on November 13, 2021, 05:51:11 pm
On that note... anyone know where can I get some black carriage bolts?

If you can't find them in black finish, you can always use few quick sprays from a rattle-can to paint the heads
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: pbj on November 13, 2021, 09:55:11 pm
Youíve done a very nice job on these. 

 :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 14, 2021, 10:34:18 am
On that note... anyone know where can I get some black carriage bolts?

If you can't find them in black finish, you can always use few quick sprays from a rattle-can to paint the heads

Good idea.  I actually found some black carriage bolts from an old project - 8 of them, which is perfect for the joystick on both cabs, but they have that square at the top near the head.  Not sure how to cleanly run them through the CP top.  If I just mash them in, it will ruin the art.  Maybe I can use a chisel somehow?  These are meant for metal CPs with the square punch... but all of the carriage bolts I've seen at Home Depot also have the square near the head.  I will need to practice on some scrap or something.

Youíve done a very nice job on these. 

 :cheers:

Thanks pbj - they are going to be tough to part with!   :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on November 14, 2021, 11:03:05 am
Good idea.  I actually found some black carriage bolts from an old project - 8 of them, which is perfect for the joystick on both cabs, but they have that square at the top near the head.  Not sure how to cleanly run them through the CP top.  If I just mash them in, it will ruin the art.  Maybe I can use a chisel somehow?  These are meant for metal CPs with the square punch... but all of the carriage bolts I've seen at Home Depot also have the square near the head.  I will need to practice on some scrap or something.

I think carriage bolts all come with the square bit behind the head - otherwise you'll never be able to tighten the bolt properly as you can't stop it rotating with a screwdriver. Just square out your hole with a thin chisel or file or even an art knife. You only have to go in a few millimeters to accommodate the squared part.

Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 14, 2021, 01:23:05 pm
I think carriage bolts all come with the square bit behind the head - otherwise you'll never be able to tighten the bolt properly as you can't stop it rotating with a screwdriver. Just square out your hole with a thin chisel or file or even an art knife. You only have to go in a few millimeters to accommodate the squared part.

This is what I'm going to do for the joysticks.  As for the speaker grills, it looks like allen wrench bolts are what was used on the Midway cocktail cabinets that they came from:

(https://size.siteimgs.com/fit/220x220/10018/item/speaker-grill-cover-bolt_1057-0.jpg)

I can get these in black pretty easy so I'm also going to use them.  Another trip to Home Depot...
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: vertexguy on November 14, 2021, 07:01:14 pm
You might check your Home Depot for black carriage bolts too.  Online it claimed 1 store near me should have them, I think for deck building, but I could never find them in stock locally.  I just grabbed the standard bolts they had and spray painted them to hold in my coin door.  Not sure that solution would hold up as well next to a joystick though.  Amazon has 'em but you have to order like 50 at a time and they are a bit pricey.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on November 14, 2021, 08:22:27 pm
I think carriage bolts all come with the square bit behind the head - otherwise you'll never be able to tighten the bolt properly as you can't stop it rotating with a screwdriver. Just square out your hole with a thin chisel or file or even an art knife. You only have to go in a few millimeters to accommodate the squared part.

This is what I'm going to do for the joysticks.  As for the speaker grills, it looks like allen wrench bolts are what was used on the Midway cocktail cabinets that they came from:

(https://size.siteimgs.com/fit/220x220/10018/item/speaker-grill-cover-bolt_1057-0.jpg)

I can get these in black pretty easy so I'm also going to use them.  Another trip to Home Depot...

Yeah, those hex head bolts in matt black finish are what I generally use for my joysticks and other stuff.  I almost mentioned them before, common in Australian cabs. THey also come with different security torx heads. I usually get them in M5 or M6 size, various lengths as appropriate
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: DaOld Man on November 15, 2021, 08:11:24 am
I just dropped in after a break from here, and trying to catch up. So in short, I will have to read this entire thread before making an informed remark.
But it looks like you are doing an excellent job, just as you always have.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 15, 2021, 02:35:30 pm
I just dropped in after a break from here, and trying to catch up. So in short, I will have to read this entire thread before making an informed remark.
But it looks like you are doing an excellent job, just as you always have.

Thanks a lot - good to see you back!

Iíve got a lot of stuff in transit - monitors, joysticks, buttons, etc. - so Iím trying to get some little tasks done as I wait.  I canít get an accurate measurement of the CP height until the monitors arrive and I install themÖ

Anyway, I got the rails installed this morning while on a conference call:

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211115/eb08ff89d7f08878555f067d66b0df1a.jpg)

I used some scrap and a spacer to make sure that the angle was consistent for all 4 rails.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211115/e8834fe2807afec25a3363818357d42f.jpg)

These are just 3/4Ē trim pieces from Home Depot that I hit with some black spray paint. I just glued them in place and used some pin nails for extra support.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211115/cc60e0fd259997389a6b8e452ec7bb62.jpg)

The control panel (1/2Ē) will rest on the rails flush with the front panel and held on with some cocktail clips.  The remainder of the rail will support the bezel (1/16Ē black matte board) and the monitor glass (1/4Ē tempered gray glass) leaving a roughly 3/16Ē lip, which is perfect.

Next up is some electrical work with the power receptacle on the rear of the cabs but Iím hesitant to chop off the plug of my brand new smart strips!   :cheers:
Title: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 16, 2021, 02:20:14 pm
I don't know why but installing the power receptacle and smart strip is always one of the most painful parts of an arcade build for me.  I just hate chopping off the plug of a brand new smart strip... which were $13 each by the way - super cheap if I'm remembering correctly.  Sometimes I wonder why I just don't notch out the back panel and just keep the smart strip in tact... OK, I know why but still.

Anyway, here's a shot of the back of the receptacle after wiring everything up so when I definitely forget when I'm working on my 2022 project I can refer back here.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211116/69ce9dd18c10c0bbf264b2c4afab3f9e.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211116/eb1d2a65726b806c6478d85af55311f3.jpg)

Sanity check - anyone see any issues?  The LED on the switch is ON no matter what, which is how I think these things are supposed to behave.  Flipping the switch cuts the power to the smart strip.  I tested it out with my iPhone charger and it seems to work.

Final shot of installation:

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211116/2717e6ab503bd98373623555e8cc2d81.jpg)


Next up... speaker grill installation.  Yikes.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: PL1 on November 16, 2021, 04:30:27 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211116/69ce9dd18c10c0bbf264b2c4afab3f9e.jpg)

Sanity check - anyone see any issues?  The LED on the switch is ON no matter what, which is how I think these things are supposed to behave.  Flipping the switch cuts the power to the smart strip.
There are two ways to wire it that cause the lamp to behave differently.  Either way is OK.

If you wire it like the diagram below with the lamp after the switch, the lamp will turn on and off with the power switch.
- Open switch = no power to lamp or power strip.
- Visual confirmation that power to the cab is on or off makes this a popular choice but YMMV.

If you wire it with the lamp before the switch, the lamp will always be on.
- Open switch = power to lamp but no power to power strip.
- You've got it wired this way with power coming in on the B+D side and going out on the A+C side of the switch.

You can tell the lamp (B+D) side of the switch because those tabs are further apart than A+C and you can see the wire leads at the base of the B+D QD tabs.

(http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/images/thumb/a/ad/IEC4PinSwitchRear.jpg/360px-IEC4PinSwitchRear.jpg)  (http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/images/thumb/b/b7/IEC4PinSwitchWiring.jpg/630px-IEC4PinSwitchWiring.jpg)

If you want to reverse the orientation of the switch, press the tabs that hold the switch into the housing, push the switch out of the housing, turn the switch 180 degrees, and push it back in.
- That changes
C      D    to    B      A    or vice-versa.
A      B           D      C

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Wiring#4-Tab_Switch (http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Wiring#4-Tab_Switch)


Scott
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 16, 2021, 04:52:14 pm
Thanks Scott.  I've done this like 5 times now and seem to do it differently every time!  I think I'm going to leave it as is (LED always on) since the reality will be the switch being on 100% of the time.  The on/off button for the cabinet will be attached to the GPIO pins of the Raspberry Pi 4 and mounted just inside of the coin door.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on November 16, 2021, 05:29:18 pm
Next time, if you want to save on the $13 cost of the smart strips, you can use an AC power relay instead. There are a few different types of relays, but they are all (mostly) very cheap. Then you can use a good-old power distribution board/layout, or just chop up a cheap/old power strip instead of your more expensive smart strip.

For example I like to use 5v activated relays, which means the relay needs to get 5v from the PC before switching everything else on. That way, even with the power connected, the PC must be operating before anything else starts. If the PC shuts down, everything goes off. There are versions with adjustable timers (555) built in, which is useful for people that want to protect their monitors from non-15khz frequencies during boot-up. There are many others, Scott (and Google) undoubtedly knows them better than I do, so I won't go on.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 16, 2021, 05:40:34 pm
Next time, if you want to save on the $13 cost of the smart strips, you can use an AC power relay instead. There are a few different types of relays, but they are all (mostly) very cheap. Then you can use a good-old power distribution board/layout, or just chop up a cheap/old power strip instead of your more expensive smart strip.

For example I like to use 5v activated relays, which means the relay needs to get 5v from the PC before switching everything else on. That way, even with the power connected, the PC must be operating before anything else starts. If the PC shuts down, everything goes off. There are versions with adjustable timers (555) built in, which is useful for people that want to protect their monitors from non-15khz frequencies during boot-up. There are many others, Scott (and Google) undoubtedly knows them better than I do, so I won't go on.

This is so far above my skill/knowledge level - I'd rather just pay the $13!  I wish I knew how to do this stuff (and a lot of other stuff) but I just don't have time or the capacity to learn it.  I need to pick my battles...
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on November 16, 2021, 05:47:41 pm
This is so far above my skill/knowledge level - I'd rather just pay the $13!  I wish I knew how to do this stuff (and a lot of other stuff) but I just don't have time or the capacity to learn it.  I need to pick my battles...

I respectfully disagree - your skill level is easily up to the challenge. I've been where you are now and understand the apprehension. It does seem daunting but is actually frightfully simple. In addition, you have the Brains Trust here to guide you through it.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Mike A on November 17, 2021, 02:03:05 pm
Quote
In addition, you have the Brains Trust here to guide you through it.

When do these guys show up?
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on November 17, 2021, 05:55:30 pm
Quote
In addition, you have the Brains Trust here to guide you through it.

When do these guys show up?

Ah look, here's one now ;)

They all have different roles, but somehow work loosely together as a team. For example, Mike does public relations management and meadow-muffin detection.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on November 18, 2021, 12:21:42 am
Quote
In addition, you have the Brains Trust here to guide you through it.

When do these guys show up?

Ah look, here's one now ;)

They all have different roles, but somehow work loosely together as a team. For example, Mike does public relations management and meadow-muffin detection.

There could be a great comedy skit for who is playing what role around here.   :)

I agree with Andrew on there being a great assortment of help and entertainment in this here establishment.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 18, 2021, 09:53:59 am
So... now that you guys have brought it up, out of curiosity, what parts would you guys use to set up power in the same way as a Smart Strip?  It is such an easy solution I can't imagine there being an even easier way.  The cost doesn't matter to me - $13 for a Smart Strip and a few dollars more for the power receptacle, does not move the needle for me at all.  But I would entertain a cheaper solution in the future if it was as easy to install.   :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on November 18, 2021, 03:24:22 pm
What you need is a 5v single channel DC relay 250VAC 10A rated. Something like this. (https://www.ebay.com/itm/334023357538?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110002%26algo%3DSPLICE.SOI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20201210111451%26meid%3D8097a3e1a5594627a33dd25a416c37c1%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D234026752977%26itm%3D334023357538%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DPromotedSellersOtherItemsV2WithMLRv3%26brand%3DUnbranded&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amdata=cksum%3A3340233575388097a3e1a5594627a33dd25a416c37c1%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAACEFp4EnDW3wVnIBcTLmwtFcD5OCbNy6adhuhD9tksnxWrF7oDSk50x5IRnWC3wZprzYcOpIX4cyIk302eFhbbWuwmM%252BbeKHt78RBEZ2gfuGhxImQbxWmqosMsnoMAMR%252FIJdgCDOLVtGIyMts78orOv3NO3%252FxbaOlu9T4ff%252FuCpwmf3CRRHiAUxCr9AaHvbCgCID9cfitbHmO96Segl8KG7p6RgdWM8kn5LqHAkNXUNpqgrSx%252FjhQyN%252FlN7cf83npQdxZYvLzL7%252B4uVECvsUb%252BOe3BZmUL6fPRfLJO3iycjyuYbRbSrmYWvAp3vzwlWfajKwAMeKSi63ufXlA9C0f5I%252FdGcFxqvPKW3PgsuQzintlnp7GH8nlr%252F0Uoqtr9PczS8kETjJu8k9RRfdnybJoVfYo4DuG0nIW%252BdxKcAgD8%252BFqQ2iarbAE2H31a1ea4Bm3o6PxotWe%252B6ffqR96hxrUYCRNNfMagu2vTo%252F9RzBXHECTf7pNGYoGB88EtF5LqULv9MDS6dd6lqNsDvjQKA9IrAQPHNW%252BAy2Fig2a85wA%252BwWlVxh%252FyU2jFxpVoVfryr4E9NT28TVW8cJR5%252BoQVsQ8ELB%252BbgZ9v6MDsTzf0IJ6BKFffpwKQQ%252BO1DeH0dGdtp%252BQ2F3TfO%252FuwYH7z%252Fq4Qh%252Br1gL%252B78p1KLnhoZE1ECWhS2sgLvlg0%252BKtcKj2Gg%252BX%252Bwk1vqw%253D%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675):

They should cost only $1-2 each tops. Cheaper is you buy them in packs of 5 or 10. The ones I've got here (with Chinese labelling on the terminals) cost less than $1 each. If you're paying $5-6+ then you are paying too much.

I'd also recommend you get an EMI filter - not essential, but useful for minimising electrical interference, both incoming and outgoing. Suggest you get EMI filter rated to 250VAC & 10A, though 6A is probably sufficient. These EMI filters come in different packages. You can get an EMI filter built-in with one of the PC-style power plugs you are already using.  This is an example of an EMI filter built into the power-plug (https://www.ebay.com/itm/313619889357?hash=item490533bccd:g:D2EAAOSwN9dhAmef). Here is an example of a stand-alone EMI filter (https://www.ebay.com/itm/174749342282?hash=item28afdf5a4a:g:lHcAAOSwdLVgiSwz). These examples are just pulled from ebay, I don't understand why their prices are so high.  I've bought them from local (online) marketplaces for much, much cheaper. You shouldn't have top pay more than about $2 for a stand-alone EMI filter.

You'll also need some 2-way screw-terminal strips (https://www.ebay.com/itm/165155382902?hash=item2674072676:g:IBQAAOSw9mpaCfUc) to connect your wires up.

Finally, you'll need a PC molex connector to access 5v from your PC. You could also use a hacked USB cable, but be aware that some USB port can remain powered even after the PC has been switch off!

I guess you'll want a wiring diagram - that'll have to come next time :D




Title: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 18, 2021, 07:41:12 pm
HmmmÖ this seems more complex than just buying the Smart Strip but maybe Iím not understanding how this all works.

I spent some time today installing the monitors but I made a stupid mistake - I mounted the rail 3/4Ē lower than I should have so now I need to figure out how to raise the monitor 3/4Ē with a spacer or something.  I used a piece of cardboard to get the rails parallel but forgot to account for the thickness of the top rail so it should have been 2Ē and not 2-3/4Ē.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211119/a09aee2906918e9ed1fabd47da41b6f3.jpg)

I could use a piece of 3/4Ē MDF a little larger than the vesa mount and sandwich it between the monitor and the panel that will span the width of the cabinet.  I could also just add a 3/4Ē square dowel to the top of the bottom rail but neither of those solutions seem elegant to me so Iím going to think on it for a bit. My stupidity knows no bounds.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: thebyter on November 18, 2021, 11:36:49 pm
HmmmÖ this seems more complex than just buying the Smart Strip
Hmmm...  It kind of is.  However, at https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LW15A4W/, you can get a 2-pack of relays, with some isolation circuitry and screw-on terminals on a little carrier board.  It's only six dollars for both modules.

The terminals are marked DC+, DC-, and IN on the input side and NC, NO, and COM on the output side.  Normally, when everything's off, NC and COM are connected, but when there's voltage across the IN terminal, and the relay's powered, NO and COM are connected instead (and NC/COM are disconnected).

So you could get one of these three dollar modules, connect it something like this:

+5v from computer (or another source) => DC+
+5v from computer (only when powered on) => IN
Ground for +5v => DC-
NO, COM => Switched outlet (hot, neutral)

And that would more or less work just like the smart strip, with anything plugged into the swithed outlet only getting power when the computer is on.  Or you could just get a smart strip.  8-)
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on November 19, 2021, 12:50:50 am
I promised you a circuit diagram...

This is one I pinched from components101.com (https://components101.com/switches/5v-single-channel-relay-module-pinout-features-applications-working-datasheet), and adapted it slightly. You might note that I've jumpered the Vcc to the input signal pin, so that it will trigger the relay whenever the computer is on.

The EMI filter I mentioned is entirely optional, so is not included in the diagram. It is just a good idea, and still a good idea when using a smart strip.

In terms of cost comparisons, it comes down to $2-3 for a relay+some wire+terminal blocks, vs $13 for a smart strip. Smart strips are convenient and I still use them because I have some already, and $13 is a good price. For me it "feels" more pro to use a relay for cab internals.

Nobody is forcing you of course, we still love your work. But once you do it with a relay you'll probably never want to use a smart strip again.
Title: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 20, 2021, 04:27:42 pm
Thanks Zeb.  I will look into this for the next build.  I'm always on the lookout for something new to learn.

Anyway... monitors are here!  They work and fit perfectly in a vertical orientation.  The smaller footprint allows me to get a somewhat taller CP than I was thinking would fit too.  Installing them was not too bad once I worked everything out. 

First thing I did was de-case the monitors to get rid of the ugly bezel.  This allows for the screen and matte board bezel I'll make eventually to be mounted right up against the glass - the plastic bezel is at least 1/8" thick and would leave a gap plus it's not flush because of the "Dell" logo and control panel buttons.  De-casing a monitor like this is super easy and takes about 2 minutes.

(https://i.imgur.com/GeKelRV.jpg)

In order to position the monitor exactly where I wanted, I made a panel the width of the cabinet interior and about 5" high (the height I picked was random - just has to be big enough to use the VESA mounting screws on the rear of the monitor).  And because I am the way that I am, after I cut the pieces I spray painted them black just so it would all match on the insideÖ where no one will see anything. 

Using a template I found online, I centered the VESA mount holes in the panel and drilled them out using a large bit.  I needed these holes to be oversized on purpose so I could fine tune the final placement of the monitor making sure it was centered.  I used a 1/2" forstner bit and tried to drill as straight as I could.  Then, to fix my F up I added a 3/4" spacer and drilled out 4 more holes so the M4-.7 (45mm) screws could pass through the spacer as well.  This gives about a 1/8" wiggle room in all directions so I can position the monitor dead center and then tighten down the screws with some oversized washers providing the pressure.

(https://i.imgur.com/opviRxl.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/kip6WV3.jpg)

After this was all assembled, I just popped this into the cabinets resting each end of the stretcher on the bottom rail.  Then I centered the monitors and tightened everything down.  With the monitor in place I was able to get an accurate measurement of the CP height, which turned out to be exactly 5".  Plenty of room.

(https://i.imgur.com/OhsmCgS.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/rsdfw4j.jpg)

Anyway, they are installed!  Came out great.  I also quickly tested the monitors out using my Raspberry Pi 4 setup and it looks great.  Screen is really large relative to the cabinet, which I like.  One thing that I haven't seen before is these monitors have USB ports on them.  Is this strictly for providing power to something?  If so, they are in a perfect spot to power the marquee LED.

Coming down the home stretch.  I'm going to order the monitor glass now that I can get an accurate measurement so all that will be left is the back door, marquee and CPO to sort out... and the coin box, interior service panel, marquee LED, speakers and some other miscellaneous stuff.   :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on November 20, 2021, 05:13:11 pm
Nice secure monitor mounting.

Will look awesome once you slide some glass on top and add a control panel.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: vertexguy on November 20, 2021, 09:03:56 pm
Looking good and solid man.  You're braver than me to take apart the monitors.  :) Clearly something you've got experience in.  I'm hoping I can get away with leaving my TV all together and just hide it all under the bezel in a flush manner.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 21, 2021, 09:45:21 am
Nice secure monitor mounting.

Will look awesome once you slide some glass on top and add a control panel.

Thanks.  So far so good.  I'm ready to get these finished up just so they aren't hanging over my head anymore.  The CP is going to be a problem.  I thought Id be able to do the CPO myself but I've spent hours on it and not having any luck but I'll figure something out.

Looking good and solid man.  You're braver than me to take apart the monitors.  :) Clearly something you've got experience in.  I'm hoping I can get away with leaving my TV all together and just hide it all under the bezel in a flush manner.

The LCD monitors are so easy to pull apart - it literally takes 2 minutes.  You just rip off the bezel (literally - it is held on by some plastic clips and is meant to come apart) and then you unscrew the 4 screws on the back which frees up the rest of the monitor.  You may or may not need to unscrew the little PCB strip with the power button on it too.  Once you get it out there is usually some junk on the back that locks the monitor stand in place - removing this lets the back of the monitor lay flat.  That thing comes off with 2 more screws.  That's it.

I think it is time to make an actual punch list so I don't forget all the little things I still need to do...

- Marquee and CPO art
- Install speaker grills
- Install speakers
- Cut back door panels to final height and install (probably with a cam lock up top?)
- Figure out Service Panel.  Just inside the coin door I want to mount the power button and the volume knob.  Not sure how I'm doing this yet though.
- Cut new control panels.  I made them last week but they are both 1/16" short side to side and 2" too tall so I have to recut them anyway...
- Figure out Coin Box - I want to keep this simple but I do not feel like cutting out 6 MDF panels and making it myself.
- Order LED strip for marquee backlight (any recommendations? this should be USB powered)
- Order monitor glass
- Go to Micro Center and buy another Raspberry Pi 4
- Software configuration

I think that's it.  Lots of little stuff but I should still be on track to finish in 30 days.  I'm going to do the new control panels today and maybe the speakers/grills (I've been putting this off).   :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: SpaceHedgehog on November 21, 2021, 11:44:26 am
Great progress and I'm glad to see you've got your monitor and control panel challenges sorted!

You can add me to the 'I've never de-cased a monitor' club  :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 21, 2021, 04:54:10 pm
Great progress and I'm glad to see you've got your monitor and control panel challenges sorted!

You can add me to the 'I've never de-cased a monitor' club  :cheers:

Thanks.  Iím headed towards the finish line finally.  I recut the control panels this afternoon and they fit a lot nicer.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211121/2355d51a2c2d8d9dae6c7f0729be1afa.jpg)

I also think 5Ē height looks proportional so thatís good too. Just need to sort out the artwork.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211121/b11977c5d0df780992d48a4a10a2dcc6.jpg)

If I had a 1/2" round over bit I'd run that along the edge but the 1/4" will have to do.  I just think it would look nicer.  Maybe next time.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211121/ea2d802965700a78e582e095153d7c11.jpg)

Next I want to install the speakers and speaker grill.  I was thinking about getting those $10 amps and a few cheap 2Ē speakers but Iíve got some Amazon Basics here that I can rip apart instead.

If I have time Iíll also get the back doors sorted out.  The panels I originally cut are actually a bit bowed so I hope they still work.  I do not feel like painting again.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on November 21, 2021, 05:22:01 pm
Looking great javeryh  :cheers:

I love the wood-grain vinyl - I think I might need to get some for myself. Can you please remind me, what should I search for online?
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 21, 2021, 05:50:28 pm
Looking great javeryh  :cheers:

I love the wood-grain vinyl - I think I might need to get some for myself. Can you please remind me, what should I search for online?

Both Amazon and eBay have "wood vinyl" or "wood vinyl wrap" products.  You just have to be aware of the size.  For whatever reason, in the US the standard rolls are 17" wide - not big enough.  In the UK, they sell similar rolls but about 26" wide so I had to order from there.  Then hold my breath because things get beat up in transit.  The box arrived heavily dented but the rolls were OK.  I bought "d-c-fix" brand.  67.5 cm x 2m.  They are about $8 a roll and you need one for each side.

Title: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 23, 2021, 03:00:57 pm
Tiny bit more progress... into the weeds we go...

I needed something to catch quarters so I went to Michael's looking for a box and I found one the perfect size for $5.  It actually came with a second box inside and it used to have a lid on hinges and a clasp on the front to lock it.  I just needed the base so I got rid of everything else. 

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211123/12c3a469200f4efc6a3f287b967fd700.jpg)

All I did was position it underneath the coin mechs and glued it to the front panel with some wood glue.  So the box ends up being of-center to the coin door itself.  I tested a few quarters and they were all caught so I think this will work.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211123/0f47c10667afc278e358cf7ffeee9534.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211123/d738c99e61f2284d0330159dcc72b14f.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211123/7c82997838e6fec5e3c7efb685978648.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211123/d8c1de5414514e3cbd72dc999279e5fe.jpg)

I am not 100% sure if it will hold if ever gets filled with quarters, which could get heavy.  I doubt that will happen though.  I figure it just needs to hold about $5 worth and if my nieces and nephews actually use quarters (it will be optional) they will reach in and reuse them rather than scrounge for money to play.  I suppose I could reinforce this with a few screws but I don't feel like it and isn't glue supposed to be stronger anyway?

I'm also thinking about where to get a tupperware liner for the box that you can just pull out to empty it instead of reaching in and fishing out the quarters by hand.  But it would have to be the right size and I've got enough money sunk into these projects...   :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: lomoverde on November 23, 2021, 05:27:56 pm


I'm also thinking about where to get a tupperware liner for the box that you can just pull out to empty it instead of reaching in and fishing out the quarters by hand.  But it would have to be the right size and I've got enough money sunk into these projects...   :cheers:

I know you wont find it funny,but reading thru this build I cant help but smile seeing you continually wrestling with the inner perfectionist.  :laugh2: Trying to keep to the initial plan of simple and cheap but continually going one step further. :applaud:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: pbj on November 23, 2021, 06:03:40 pm
Do like we did in the old days and fold up some cardboard into the size box you need and wrap it with duct tape.  It'll be arcade authentic.

Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: vertexguy on November 23, 2021, 06:16:18 pm
I can't tell what kind of wood that box is but it looks to be maybe 1/2"?  I would think if you wood glued the front of it to your coin door with a nice even coat, and maybe added a little extra on the inner joints of the box it should be plenty strong to be filled with quarters.  The joint should be stronger than your wood, so it's more a question of the wood strength at that point.  I also doubt they will ever fill it with quarters.  Looking good though.  Keep rolling!
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on November 24, 2021, 04:32:44 am


I'm also thinking about where to get a tupperware liner for the box that you can just pull out to empty it instead of reaching in and fishing out the quarters by hand.  But it would have to be the right size and I've got enough money sunk into these projects...   :cheers:

I know you wont find it funny,but reading thru this build I cant help but smile seeing you continually wrestling with the inner perfectionist.  :laugh2: Trying to keep to the initial plan of simple and cheap but continually going one step further. :applaud:

This!

These things are outstanding.

And pbj is right of course-

Letting the coins fall on the floor inside would still be fine.
Have the lucky recipients buy a strong vacuum cleaner.
 ;D

The machine I just gave to my buddy to have at his surfboard factory has a corrugated plastic box for fencing parts from the shelf at Home Cheapo in it to catch quarters and they are stoked.
 :lol
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on November 24, 2021, 06:06:31 am
A four litre ice cream tub with velcro at the bottom would be perfect
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Arroyo on November 24, 2021, 08:59:48 am
Poor Jack Attack, never gonna get any love.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 24, 2021, 09:23:21 am
I know you wont find it funny,but reading thru this build I cant help but smile seeing you continually wrestling with the inner perfectionist.  :laugh2: Trying to keep to the initial plan of simple and cheap but continually going one step further. :applaud:

No - it's definitely funny.  One of those things I know I need to change but can't seem to do.  I'm about to buy a new TV and the only thing stopping me is trying to figure out how I will hang it on the wall.  I over-complicate everything - I need to relocate an outlet, install a box in the wall for the surge protector, patch the drywall and paint, etc.  I should just buy it and figure it out later but I can't seem to pull the trigger.

Do like we did in the old days and fold up some cardboard into the size box you need and wrap it with duct tape.  It'll be arcade authentic.

Bella's Arcade still has a duct taped coin box after all these years.  Definitely the way to go.

I can't tell what kind of wood that box is but it looks to be maybe 1/2"?  I would think if you wood glued the front of it to your coin door with a nice even coat, and maybe added a little extra on the inner joints of the box it should be plenty strong to be filled with quarters.  The joint should be stronger than your wood, so it's more a question of the wood strength at that point.  I also doubt they will ever fill it with quarters.  Looking good though.  Keep rolling!

It's 1/4" balsa wood - I think.  Definitely 1/4" and it's very light.  It's one of those things you buy your kid and they can paint it and put stuff inside.  Clamps are off this morning and it seems rock solid so I should be all set.

These things are outstanding.

And pbj is right of course-

Letting the coins fall on the floor inside would still be fine.
Have the lucky recipients buy a strong vacuum cleaner.
 ;D

The machine I just gave to my buddy to have at his surfboard factory has a corrugated plastic box for fencing parts from the shelf at Home Cheapo in it to catch quarters and they are stoked.
 :lol

Thanks bobby - I know it's not important but I want these to have some semblance of professionalism so I'm trying to make them as nice as I can.  I am worried they won't want something like this in their houses.  It's a piece of furniture and I know if someone made one for me I might not want it but I'd feel obligated to take it.  They do love playing on my cabs when they come over though so I'm hopeful.

A four litre ice cream tub with velcro at the bottom would be perfect

What's a litre?   :laugh:

Poor Jack Attack, never gonna get any love.

yeah yeah... I am actually thinking of installing the t-molding finally today or over the weekend.  That's most of what's left to do.  I rewired the inside a few months ago and it pretty much works but I never figured out how to make the ServoStik work with Retropie.  Maybe someone figured out an easy solution by now?  Also, after playing on it a lot I am not 100% in love with the form factor - it's neat and it looks great but I think I'd rather stand to play arcade games and the console games are just better with a controller in front of the TV.  So it plays a TON of games but none of them particularly well.  Maybe once I actually finish it I will change my mind.

Also - good to see you back.  Let's finish your cab up!
Title: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 29, 2021, 01:42:54 pm
More minor details.  I'm working on getting the speakers installed today.  This was stupidly trickier than I had thought it would be.  I ended up making a template to tape to the front of the cab and then drilled out the 4 holes for the bolts.  Centering the holes and making sure everything was square was tough.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211129/4c4b9ecdaa1ff2216a7c59f385aa8077.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211129/ea2199604ffc008b2ed5837716466eee.jpg)


(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211129/c4709b5aea0443b27aa00fbe20713055.jpg)

Came out fine.  Next up I'm going to install the speakers behind the grill.  Gotta bust out the soldering iron... can I use regular 16-18 gauge wire as speaker wire?  I assume so...
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 30, 2021, 05:11:49 pm
More detailsÖ I made a thing.  I needed a spot to put the power button and the volume knob/amp just inside the coin door so this is what I came up with. 

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211130/115b18d400b58b11df274b84e48d13c4.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211130/f38827869bc28f3f20aa672428d13d4b.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211130/285ffa7d950546becd8b1adb8eb5a26e.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211130/64d3aeac28724431d1779272a561d254.jpg)

I used the lid of the box I bought for the coin box.  Seems like it will work if I can glue it in place - I canít use clamps so Iím not exactly sure what Iím going to do yetÖ

Getting closer.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: SpaceHedgehog on November 30, 2021, 05:32:16 pm
Coming on nicely.

How heavy is the amp? Maybe use some double sided adhesive foam pads (or velcro)?
Title: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on November 30, 2021, 05:55:38 pm
Coming on nicely.

How heavy is the amp? Maybe use some double sided adhesive foam pads (or velcro)?

The amp is almost negative weight.  It's as light as a feather so I secured it with 2 screws and that is more than enough to hold it in place.

I just tried to glue this thing in place and of course I'm an idiot - the coin door won't close!  So I had to shave off a little bit around the button.  No big deal but if there are 10 ways to do something and 9 of them will work, you bet your ass I'll choose the one that won't.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211130/28ab6d70363dfddd7b81fd09adaebc98.jpg)

So any tips on how to glue without clamps or screws?  I read that small dots of superglue will hold it in place while the wood glue dries so I might they that.  I donít think I can hold it in place for 30 straight minutesÖ
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: yamatetsu on December 01, 2021, 03:18:52 am
So any tips on how to glue without clamps or screws?  I read that small dots of superglue will hold it in place while the wood glue dries so I might they that.  I donít think I can hold it in place for 30 straight minutesÖ

Easy. Tell someone else to do it.

.
.
.
.
.


Put your cab on the left side, put glue on your piece, put it in position, put some weight on it.

If you can't do that, use some pieces of scrap wood and double sided tape to make a frame for your piece, put glue on your piece, put it into the frame, press firmly on it, use some long strips of painter's tape to put pressure on your piece.

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=164992.0;attach=389451;image)
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on December 01, 2021, 10:27:02 am
Thanks - I don't want to tip the cab... although I could if I wanted to I guess.  The second thing you suggested is going to work.  Glue is drying now.   :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: vertexguy on December 01, 2021, 10:29:25 am
Are screws not an option for some reason?  I'm guessing you're going into a 3/4 " side panel so you should have plenty of depth for a tight hold.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on December 01, 2021, 10:52:11 am
Are screws not an option for some reason?  I'm guessing you're going into a 3/4 " side panel so you should have plenty of depth for a tight hold.

Screws not an option, unfortunately.  The block of wood is actually hollow since it is the lid to the coin door box.  I thought about L-brackets but would have to go buy them.  I ended up using a temporary support block like yamatetsu suggested and then I wedged some dowels in between the box and the inside panels to apply pressure to the glue joints.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on December 01, 2021, 12:57:05 pm
Just installed the amp.  Seems like itís going to workÖ

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211201/3bc0a75bf938a08b3320af9de09f2230.jpg)

Iíve now started on tidying up the wires and figuring out final positioning on internal components.  Iím thinking of mounting the pi on the side panel above the box on the right (above the amp).  Not much else goes in here - itís practically empty!
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on December 01, 2021, 04:19:15 pm
Alright... I ordered the monitor glass:

Tempered Glass
Shape: Square/Rectangle
Thickness: 1/4"
Tint: Light Gray
Edgework: Flat Polish All Edges(1/4" thick, tempered, gray punch list time:

So all I've got left is:

- Cut bezel out of black matte board
- Cut back door panels to final height and install (probably with a cam lock up top?)
- Finalize the Marquee and CPO art
- Apply CPO, drill button holes and wire
- Install marquee and marquee LED
- Go to Micro Center and buy another Raspberry Pi 4
- Connect everything and final software configuration

That's pretty much it.  I'll knock out the first two items on the list by end of the week but I'm getting to the point where I'm going to be waiting on vendors to deliver stuff in order to finish.   :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on December 01, 2021, 05:25:24 pm
Alright... I ordered the monitor glass:

Tempered Glass
Shape: Square/Rectangle
Thickness: 1/4"
Tint: Light Gray
Edgework: Flat Polish All Edges(1/4" thick, tempered, gray punch list time:

I'm going to politely disagree with your choices here.

I don't see why you want tinted glass - it will only dampen the colours from the screen. Tinting may reduce glare, but this is unlikely to be an issue unless you position the cab outside. Bezeled edges (vs flat) on the glass make it easier to handle. Tempering costs more and is probably unnecessary unless you expect it to be placed in a rough environment.

Just ignore me if you like, I won't mind :D
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on December 01, 2021, 06:31:32 pm
I'm going to politely disagree with your choices here.

I don't see why you want tinted glass - it will only dampen the colours from the screen. Tinting may reduce glare, but this is unlikely to be an issue unless you position the cab outside. Bezeled edges (vs flat) on the glass make it easier to handle. Tempering costs more and is probably unnecessary unless you expect it to be placed in a rough environment.

Just ignore me if you like, I won't mind :D

Itís OK - we had this conversation about my last cabinet too.  I just prefer the tinted glass.  Itís only a 10% gray tint so itís not that drastic but it does make the monitor appear to be floating as it completely blacks out the bezel.  I like the effect and donít notice any major difference. 

I always spring for tempered glass just in case. Itís only a few dollars and since these are going in kidsí playrooms I wouldnít rule out things being thrown around that could easily break the glass.  Peace of mind I guess.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on December 01, 2021, 07:37:47 pm
Yes, I recall :D

I've removed/cleaned/replaced glass) glass in many real arcade cabs and I can't recall ever seeing tinted glass used. I've asked long-time (30 years) golden-era arcade operators about it, and they didn't use it. I guess the operators were probably only concerned about keeping costs down, though I think tinting doesn't cost more.

Yeah, I've noticed some people like it for their BYOAC cabs and that is also great. You get that deeper monitor well effect, it disguises imperfections and the screen brightness can be tweaked to compensate. It might help cut a bit of glare from household lights (I always turn off a couple behind me when playing my cab inside the house).
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on December 02, 2021, 10:49:13 am
You get that deeper monitor well effect, it disguises imperfections and the screen brightness can be tweaked to compensate. It might help cut a bit of glare from household lights (I always turn off a couple behind me when playing my cab inside the house).

Yes - this is exactly on point.  The best part about these cabs is that if I end up not liking something I don't have to deal with it!  I don't think my intended audience will notice or care about details like this.
Title: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on December 09, 2021, 04:43:52 pm
Just waiting on the glass and still figuring out the art but I have a few small things I can do in the meantime. 

I had to permanently attach the monitor and cut the matte board bezel- both were a pain in the ass to get perfect.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211209/85e994f4486c84fdad39473586a0aef5.jpg)

Hereís pretty much how it will look when finished.  The monitor is awesome - itís big for the cabinet but works really well. 

Glass is scheduled to arrive tomorrow so Iíll pop that in when it arrives.  I just have to trim the back doors to final length and install them with a cam lock which Iíve also been putting off.

By the time I get the art sorted and printed itís going to be a mad scramble before Christmas to finish - I think I'll make it though.  Really excited how it's coming out.   :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on December 10, 2021, 09:55:59 pm
Looks to me like you'll make it!

Sharp lookin work.
Title: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on December 11, 2021, 12:49:55 pm
Looks to me like you'll make it!

Sharp lookin work.
Thanks - I hope so!  Mad dash to the finishÖ

I made some 1Ē deep boxes out of cardboard, tape and tin foil to go behind the marquee.  The foil should reflect the light sort of evenly so the marquee looks evenly lit.  I guess Iíll find out when I get thereÖ

I butchered my new TV box for the cardboard.  LG C1 77Ē - itís sick.  Need to wall mount it but this comes first.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211211/f511f6356bf63d3d9d4453d8ffc5c2c8.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211211/f941bf8d48e2541e992c9cd140c8af2a.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211211/3f0a4221b9a8b5ee6ea9770f42da8d20.jpg)

The box is actually held in place by just wedging it between the side panels.  I donít think Iíll need to secure it beyond this but maybe Iíll add some tape on the inside just in case. 

I have a USB LED strip that Iíll secure to the back of the box for the lights.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on December 11, 2021, 03:34:52 pm
Javeryh, as always I love your work and your ideas.

Try using plain white instead to reflect the light in your marquee. It will diffuse light better than it will with foil, meaning you'll get a more even brightness and colour. Foil will reflect point light sources right back at you, especially when in a box (google right-angle reflectors, the simple technology idea they use to make road signs and reflectors so effective).
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: vertexguy on December 11, 2021, 03:35:51 pm
Looking good.  Keep going!  If the tin foil doesn't reflect enough try a quick coat of a white paint over the foil.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on December 11, 2021, 04:29:46 pm
Looking good.  Keep going!  If the tin foil doesn't reflect enough try a quick coat of a white paint over the foil.

Take the foil off altogether and paint the inside of the box with a left-over pot of plain white. Foil will reflect a lot of infrared (heat) and other background radiation (e.g. microwaves) as well, even if you paint over it. I don't want to sound alarmist, but you probably don't want that. Even LEDs generate heat. Might want to drill a few holes at the top to let it out.

White paint will reflect, but diffuse, mostly just visible light (and some IR too, but less than foil). You can even use off-white tints to emphasis moods/themes (for example, yellow/creme for warmer feel, sky blue/magenta for a more tech, cool feel) or just to emphasise the colours in your marquee art.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on December 11, 2021, 04:30:57 pm
Javeryh, as always I love your work and your ideas.

Try using plain white instead to reflect the light in your marquee. It will diffuse light better than it will with foil, meaning you'll get a more even brightness and colour. Foil will reflect point light sources right back at you, especially when in a box (google right-angle reflectors, the simple technology idea they use to make road signs and reflectors so effective).

You are always a wealth of information and this is really interesting. I hadn't even considered foil being not the best solution.  I am using it in one of my other cabs and it works OK but I've never tried white so I have nothing to compare it to.  As long as I can't see the LED strip through the marquee I'm happy but the better the diffusion the better it will look.  If I get it all set up and it doesn't look right I'll line those boxes with some white paper and see how it looks. 

Christmas is coming up way too fast and I seem to have a ton of little tasks left that in my head will take 20 minutes but in reality take all afternoon.  I'd be embarrassed to admit how long I worked on the two cardboard boxes!  :cheers:

Looking good.  Keep going!  If the tin foil doesn't reflect enough try a quick coat of a white paint over the foil.

Thanks!  The foil is super easy to remove if it doesn't work.  It is held down with some packing tape and only a small strip on each side.  I should be able to easily remove it if I want.  Hopefully not though - I no longer have the time to make everything perfect (which is a good thing for me).   :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Mike A on December 11, 2021, 04:51:33 pm
Quote
Foil will reflect a lot of infrared (heat) and other background radiation (e.g. microwaves) as well, even if you paint over it.

Don't you watch Marvel Movies? Only good things happen when you are exposed to radiation.

You need to get something that generates gamma rays.

You could have Hulk balls.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on December 11, 2021, 05:03:46 pm
Quote
Foil will reflect a lot of infrared (heat) and other background radiation (e.g. microwaves) as well, even if you paint over it.

Don't you watch Marvel Movies? Only good things happen when you are exposed to radiation.

You need to get something that generates gamma rays.

You could have Hulk balls.

:lol

Actually, gamma radiation penetrates almost anything, even tin foil. So all those crazies with their special hats are doomed, just like the rest of us.

To detect gamma rays (e.g. from cosmic background radiation) they built these huge tanks of some special water deep underground, and they get all excited if they detect just a single gamma ray. As many tons of earth and rock eventually absorb pretty much everything else, all that is left is the gamma.
Title: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on December 12, 2021, 07:07:54 pm
Got the bezels and monitor glass installed today as well as the back doors (mostly).  The glass was about 1/8" too narrow (my fault) but whatever - I am done worrying about stupid details no one will notice. 

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211213/8c168a1c192ccf3702258328353aa291.jpg)

Last remaining items:

- Install marquee when it arrives
- Install CPO when it arrives
- Drill button holes and wire panels
- Final software configuration

Really coming down to the wire.  While I'm waiting on the art to be delivered I will do the final software configuration.  It's done but I stupidly set everything up on a 128GB microSD card that is only using about 10GB total.  I bought 32GB cards for the final cabs but need to either figure out how to shrink the image or start over with the smaller cards.  The idea is to make 4 copies so that if something goes wrong while I'm not there, they can pop out the microSD card and replace it with an identical one.   :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: vertexguy on December 12, 2021, 10:03:08 pm
To keep you moving along,, If you trust your cp graphic alignment you could probably drill the cp and wire everything up before you have the print.  If you have quick disconnects then you can quickly take the controls out when the graphics arrive.  You could also test play with the controls to make sure all is well.
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on December 13, 2021, 06:07:27 am
To keep you moving along,, If you trust your cp graphic alignment you could probably drill the cp and wire everything up before you have the print.  If you have quick disconnects then you can quickly take the controls out when the graphics arrive.  You could also test play with the controls to make sure all is well.
I wish I could but Iím not that good.  I need to use the ď+Ē in the middle of the buttons on the CPO in order to drill out the holes accurately.  The art has rings around the buttons so I need to be precise and I donít know of any other way to do it.  Honestly though itís not that bad - 6 holes TOTAL on the CP and that includes the joystick and admin buttons.  So it shouldnít take long once I get the art applied. 

I bought some zero delay encoders (first time) and they came with quick disconnects ready to go so wiring should be a breeze.  No crimping or soldering.  Hardest part will be lining up the cocktail clips.  In my head this should all take 20 minutes but more likely Iím looking at 2 hours per panel.  Hopefully it will be the last thing I have to doÖ
Title: Re: javeryh's Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on December 13, 2021, 09:42:27 am
The artwork has been ordered.  Here's what I ended up with:

(https://i.imgur.com/TpUQe04.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/OVPPMUo.jpg)

This won't mean much to anyone other than me but we have a little cottage in Salisbury Beach, MA that has been in the family for a long time.  We pick a week in the summer every year and stay with family (brother/sister-in-laws, nieces and nephews) and we have been doing it for almost 20 years.  The cottage is pictured in the marquee - it's tiny but it's on the water so you can't beat it.

Anyway, I wanted to personalize these cabinets and it couldn't have come out any better.  The goal was to make it look like it could have been designed in the 70s/80s since the cabinet style is based on designs from around the same time.  Fingers crossed that the art arrives this week!   :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on December 13, 2021, 12:15:33 pm
Extra fun!

But man is that beach freakin cold.

Nice job on the artwork.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on December 13, 2021, 04:13:42 pm
I absolutely love it <3
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on December 14, 2021, 09:14:08 am
Extra fun!

But man is that beach freakin cold.

Nice job on the artwork.

Thanks!  I barely go in past my knees even after all these years.  The kids don't mind the temperature at all but it's cold to me as well since I grew up south of there.  In August at night you sometimes need blankets!

I absolutely love it <3

Thanks - let's just hope the art arrives in time...

Today I'm going to dedicate to software configuration and getting everything condensed onto a 32GB microSD card so I can make 3 copies once everything is perfect.  Game list is done so once I set up MAME and Attract Mode it should be pretty easy.  I do want to disable all button assignments except the ones I specifically choose.  No defaults, hotkeys, etc.

Getting close!!
Title: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on December 14, 2021, 07:19:34 pm
AlrightÖ I spent the better part of the day working on the software configuration and I think I need to make some hard decisions. There are 11 games in my list that have a nag screen and I think I should remove them.  Itís just not a clean look.

Astro Invader
Carnival
Cat and Mouse
Gorf
Lunar Rescue
Mappy
Monster Bash
Pac & Pal
Pleiades
Super Pac-Man
Tower of Druaga

This isnít the end of the world but I do really wish I could include Mappy, Pac & Pal and Super Pac-Man.  Given the intended audience, I do not think any of these games will be missed - they likely have no idea these games even exist.  But I really wish there was a way to disable the ďknown issuesĒ screen. 

I know there are no nag versions of MAME out there but Iím using bbeginís MAME application on the pi4 so Iím limited with what I can do.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: zeorangr on December 14, 2021, 11:58:10 pm
You might be able to set up a little autohotkey (or similar) script to quickly enter the needed inputs (left and right, I think) to dismiss the nag screen when you launch the rom, if the pi version of what you're running will let you launch a script when you select a game.

If you need help with writing something like that, I'd be glad to try, just let me know.


(edit - Realized after initially posting that AHK is a windows thing, and probably doesn't exist on the pi, but there may still be some kind of comparable method for scripting.  Offer stands, if something comparable is available)
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on December 15, 2021, 02:54:31 am
AlrightÖ I spent the better part of the day working on the software configuration and I think I need to make some hard decisions. There are 11 games in my list that have a nag screen and I think I should remove them.  Itís just not a clean look.

Astro Invader
Carnival
Cat and Mouse
Gorf
Lunar Rescue
Mappy
Monster Bash
Pac & Pal
Pleiades
Super Pac-Man
Tower of Druaga

This isnít the end of the world but I do really wish I could include Mappy, Pac & Pal and Super Pac-Man.  Given the intended audience, I do not think any of these games will be missed - they likely have no idea these games even exist.  But I really wish there was a way to disable the ďknown issuesĒ screen. 

I know there are no nag versions of MAME out there but Iím using bbeginís MAME application on the pi4 so Iím limited with what I can do.

I agree on wanting to keep some of those but...

1. Intended crew almost certainly won't notice they are "missing."
2. If for some reason those games (or any?!) become an issue you can always update those cards when you have an opportunity and educate them about what is going on.  Once they are more familiar with the machine it would make more sense anyway.
3.  Tempus fugit.
 :)
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Mike A on December 15, 2021, 09:02:51 am
Keep the games.

Don't worry about the nag screens.

It takes one second out of their day to move past them and then play a cool game.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on December 15, 2021, 11:31:49 am
Keep the games.

Don't worry about the nag screens.

It takes one second out of their day to move past them and then play a cool game.

I agree... although I am really really really trying to hide any hint of an OS inside.  Right now, you press power button and in about 25 seconds the screen goes from black (off) to the front end.  Nothing loads in between.  Same thing when you shut it off or switch games, etc.  Everything under the hood is hidden.  If I knew how to compile on the raspberry pi, I'd just make my own no nag version of MAME.  Next time...

I have deleted these games or now and I'm going to see if I miss them over the next week.  I'm also considering getting rid of some other games - the list is at 53 right now.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on December 15, 2021, 12:10:35 pm
As far as I can tell, compiling MAME for Pi is not really any different to compiling for linux.

So yeah, deliver the cabs then follow Bobby's strategy - take your time to work out the compiling, and update with a new SD card later.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Mike A on December 15, 2021, 04:58:28 pm
Quote
I agree... although I am really really really trying to hide any hint of an OS

I always read about people going through all kinds of trouble to do this. It just seems like a useless waste of time to me.
The bootup sequence makes it look like a cool relic from the 80's or 90's.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on December 17, 2021, 06:24:00 pm
Estimated delivery for the artÖ. Tuesday!

This is going to be close.  I have Wednesday to install both marquees, both CPOs and wire everything up.  Going to be a long dayÖ Thursday is family through Christmas so no time.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: vertexguy on December 18, 2021, 02:35:05 am
You got this.   :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: yotsuya on December 18, 2021, 12:00:11 pm
Looking good!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on December 19, 2021, 10:29:10 am
You got this.   :cheers:

I hope so!  As long as the delivery doesn't get delayed I should be OK.  I may also only need to actually finish one of them since I don't think I can fit both in my car to deliver them.  So the most likely scenario is I'll bring one and tell them both there is an identical one at my house that I'll bring up on the next visit.  Or maybe they will come down and grab it depending on how well the gifts are received.

Looking good!

Thanks!  Spent yesterday and today putting a couple extra coats of paint on the rear doors which got scratched to hell when I drilled the holes for the locks and did the final sizing so they would actually fit. 

Really just waiting on the art now... 
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on December 21, 2021, 03:38:04 pm
Well... pressure is off.  The artwork arrived this afternoon and I was disappointed to find that for some unknown reason the marquee is WAY too big.  I printed out the file again just to make sure it wasn't my fault and the black and white printed out the perfect size.  Looking at the lettering and the house on the print, everything seems stretched out (vertically).  I'm not sure what went wrong - I don't know the first thing about printing.  I sent a PDF that prints to the right size for me but maybe the file gets converted into something else before printing?  Oh well, I tried.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: vertexguy on December 21, 2021, 06:10:17 pm
Hmm... what place did you print it at?  It's sounding like it was a problem on their end unless they asked you details on the file and you told them wrong?  If its on them they should fix it free..  Having something print way bigger than intended sounds like they took your 300 dpi (dots per inch)  file and printed it at 72 for example.  However if there is stretching, that's another issue.  Are you sure your print dimensions work for the sheet size they are putting it on?

  I guess you could take a picture of where it's at and present that at Christmas, or just tell them your gift is arriving late thanks to the supply chain issues if you wanna keep it a surprise.   :dunno.  Sorry about your luck with the prints.   ???
Title: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on December 21, 2021, 08:30:28 pm
Hopefully it will work out with the printer.  Iíve gone over it a bunch and I donít see how it could possibly be something on my end but I suppose itís possible.  Print scaling is set to 100% and the artist sent me the file to print at the exact size I wanted so it seems unlikely we are both wrong here.

Iím just not going to say anything at Christmas.  I might hold off until Christmas 2022.  Wonít see them again until beach week in the summer anyway.  Iím bummed but what can you do?

I havenít even opened the CPO after seeing the marquee.  Assuming thereís nothing wrong there Iíll still try and get them done soon - might be fun to have 2 extra playable cabs in the basementÖ

By the way, people that build these for a living are effing crazy.  The deadline is miserable and you can see the million things that can go wrong.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on December 21, 2021, 11:31:46 pm
Sorry to hear about your printing mishap.

You would've made it!

I can't imagine building these for a living unless you earned twice the $$ I imagine people do.

And didn't have a deadline either!
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: opt2not on December 22, 2021, 08:05:57 pm
That sucks, man! Sorry to hear about the print. GoG needs to make this right.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: SpaceHedgehog on December 23, 2021, 07:23:26 am
Really sorry to hear about this. You did everything in your power to make it happen.

Take care and happy holidays  :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on December 23, 2021, 01:37:56 pm
Thanks guys - it's fine.  This week I'm dealing with potential covid so Christmas might be canceled anyway.  Wasn't meant to be this year.   :cheers:

Here's what I'm trying to convey regarding the marquee. 

(https://i.imgur.com/719mAEX.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/K7643Pz.jpg)

My test print is the black and white, obviously.  It fits perfectly in the opening.  The print that was sent to me is too large all the way around as you can see in the pictures.  If you look carefully, the lettering is covered on the top and bottom, the second bird in the sky isnít visible and if you look at the house on the right, the pitch of the roof is not how it should be and it is way too close to the right edge.  All of the letters also appear to be taller than they should be.  It looks like the whole image got enlarged by maybe 10% and then also stretched vertically for some reason?

The quality is amazing though - it looks sick when backlit.  I just hope I can get this sorted out. 
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: opt2not on December 23, 2021, 03:33:25 pm
Yeah, even the house looks skinnier.
The print looks great though. Everything looks sharp and the colors are vibrant. The orange and blues really pop!

Got a picture of the CPO? Did you go with the polycarbonate laminate? Iím curious how that looks.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: JDFan on December 23, 2021, 03:40:54 pm
What size is the image and the paper they are using to print it ? - Looks like they must have had the printer set to autofill the paper with the image to maximize the usage of the paper width instead of printing to actual pixel size - If resending might try adding white space aound the image to make the file match the width of the paper they are using so that the printer thinks it is the same width as the paper so it doesn't scale it up to fit. ( or tell them to make sure it prints to actual size and not use the Fit to page setting in the printer - https://files.support.epson.com/htmldocs/cx66__/cx66__rf/vari_4.htm ) 
Title: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on December 23, 2021, 04:37:30 pm
Yeah, even the house looks skinnier.
The print looks great though. Everything looks sharp and the colors are vibrant. The orange and blues really pop!

Got a picture of the CPO? Did you go with the polycarbonate laminate? Iím curious how that looks.

The print looks WAY better in person too.  It's really nice but unfortunately the wrong size.  Here's the CPO:

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211223/191e6869e7b270fca30f1b4d48338d4a.jpg)

Very vibrant as well and a perfect match to the marquee.  Very pleased with the artist.

What size is the image and the paper they are using to print it ? - Looks like they must have had the printer set to autofill the paper with the image to maximize the usage of the paper width instead of printing to actual pixel size - If resending might try adding white space aound the image to make the file match the width of the paper they are using so that the printer thinks it is the same width as the paper so it doesn't scale it up to fit. ( or tell them to make sure it prints to actual size and not use the Fit to page setting in the printer - https://files.support.epson.com/htmldocs/cx66__/cx66__rf/vari_4.htm )

It's not printed on paper - I don't know what it is but I bet you are right that a printer setting was messed up.  Maybe the print before me had special settings?  Only other thing I can think of is that they used the LxH I gave when ordering. You have to put in the dimensions for custom prints because the bigger it is the more it costs, obviously.  I overestimated by a few inches because last thing I wanted was to pay and then they go to print and I didn't pay enough because the size was off.  But it makes no sense to not use the file given at 100% and I've also ordered from them many times in the past without this being an issue.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: wp34 on December 23, 2021, 07:48:47 pm
That's too bad about your art troubles. I like the look you are going for.  :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on December 28, 2021, 03:59:53 pm
New marquees are on the way.  I confirmed that they printed the files at the size I specified on the order page and not at 100% based on the file I sent.  Seems counterintuitive to me and it is not clearly described anywhere on the order page but probably partly my fault for not confirming this first.  Looks like I lucked out with the CPO because the size I specified is the actual size of the print.  So hopefully everything arrives in the next week or so and I can finish by end of January at the latest.  I'm going to sit on them for a long time though since I won't see my nieces and nephews until the summer at least.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on January 13, 2022, 04:57:21 pm
Any ideas on how to secure the marquee place?  I routed out an area behind the marquee cutout where it will sit but it "floats" meaning when it is in the recessed area there is like 1/4"-1/2" all the way around that the marquee does not fill.  What can I do to keep it in place?  When it is correctly positioned, I also have to fight gravity because it will want to slide down 1/4"-1/2" to sit on the bottom lip of the cutout.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211001/a4a782e5c397684456dfe3bb457a36c7.jpg)

I have 2 pieces of plexiglas and the marquee print sandwiched in between. I am thinking of using packing/scotch tape to keep these 3 pieces together (just slightly covering the edge that will not be seen and then using double-sided tape along that same edge to attach it to the MDF.  This will hold short-term but I think as the MDF soaks up the glue it will eventually fail.  Any ideas on how to keep it in place (not permanently)?

Also, would you scuff the back piece of plexiglas with sandpaper to diffuse the LED light evenly?   :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on January 13, 2022, 06:03:27 pm
You can get translucent white plexi designed to diffuse light, I've used it before for marquees, works well. I've also used plain white paper, works ok-ish.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on January 14, 2022, 10:56:44 am
You can get translucent white plexi designed to diffuse light, I've used it before for marquees, works well. I've also used plain white paper, works ok-ish.

I am not putting one more dollar into these LOL so I think I'm just going to scuff up the plexi I already have cut for behind the marquee.  Going to hopefully get to this today if I can figure out how to hold the marque securely in place.   :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: 10yard on January 14, 2022, 11:52:20 am
Any ideas on how to secure the marquee place?  I routed out an area behind the marquee cutout where it will sit but it "floats" meaning when it is in the recessed area there is like 1/4"-1/2" all the way around that the marquee does not fill.  What can I do to keep it in place?  When it is correctly positioned, I also have to fight gravity because it will want to slide down 1/4"-1/2" to sit on the bottom lip of the cutout.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211001/a4a782e5c397684456dfe3bb457a36c7.jpg)

I have 2 pieces of plexiglas and the marquee print sandwiched in between. I am thinking of using packing/scotch tape to keep these 3 pieces together (just slightly covering the edge that will not be seen and then using double-sided tape along that same edge to attach it to the MDF.  This will hold short-term but I think as the MDF soaks up the glue it will eventually fail.  Any ideas on how to keep it in place (not permanently)?


You could use "J" brackets (or adapt what brackets you have available) to fix/push the marquee in place within the recess.  I'm thinking something along these lines. 

(https://i.imgur.com/gMyAjgV.png)
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on January 14, 2022, 12:41:53 pm
This is giving me an idea.  I think Iím going to tape everything together around the edge so the plexiglas/marquee/plexiglas ďsandwichĒ stays together as one piece making sure the tape won't be visible through the cutout on the front panel and then put a very very thin strip of double sided tape around the edge so I can stick it in place.

Then maybe I can use weatherstripping instead of the J brackets but same idea of wedging it in place.  Then I can add some cleats along the top and bottom to create some pressure against the panel to make sure it doesnít move because the glue will absorb into the MDF over time.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on January 14, 2022, 03:38:47 pm
Alright, I think I have this sorted.  I found some clips in a drawer that seem to be working:

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220114/630c70cdaf11f928d7d63dedee222578.jpg)

These might have come with a frame or something and Iím sure Iíll be cursing if I ever actually need them but whatever.  I found 8 of them which should be enough for both cabs.

The red you see in the pic is double sided foam tape that I added to the end of each clip to not scratch the plexiglas and also let me tighten the screw down pretty good.

Hereís how it came out:

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220114/1ac70ec68506215315e5c05bb926f942.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220114/b751b32dc5d4607b198bf38e5cf40e29.jpg)

All thatís left is to sort out the lighting and install the CPs.  :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on January 14, 2022, 08:19:49 pm
Removable.
Adjustable.
Inexpensive.
Simple.

Elegant!
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on January 14, 2022, 08:45:02 pm
Lol, in my experience most arcade operators would do similar, just use 2 pieces of Perspex/plexi and put the uglier, more scratched one, at the back. Less cost, more convenience.

Having said that, a translucent piece at back really does make a marquee shine, so long as you have some good art/print to put there, and the budget of course :%
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: vertexguy on January 14, 2022, 11:18:24 pm
Javery I'm curious what you're planning to light the marquee?  A LED strip?  A simple 1 inch deep cardboard box behind it with the inside painted white and a led strip around the back wall should light that up easily enough.  White surface reflection works wonders
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on January 15, 2022, 12:11:11 pm
Removable.
Adjustable.
Inexpensive.
Simple.

Elegant!

LOL - thanks.  Inexpensive and elegant are my 2 favorite things although I often fail on the inexpensive part.   :laugh:

Lol, in my experience most arcade operators would do similar, just use 2 pieces of Perspex/plexi and put the uglier, more scratched one, at the back. Less cost, more convenience.

Having said that, a translucent piece at back really does make a marquee shine, so long as you have some good art/print to put there, and the budget of course :%

So I should scuff up the back piece, right?  As it stands now, it is transparent and I think roughing the surface with some sandpaper will help diffuse the light.

Javery I'm curious what you're planning to light the marquee?  A LED strip?  A simple 1 inch deep cardboard box behind it with the inside painted white and a led strip around the back wall should light that up easily enough.  White surface reflection works wonders

I made a cardboard box but lined it with aluminum foil.  Zeb also said I should have covered it in white paper instead so I might do that.  I bought a USB powered LED strip for $8 from Amazon (the kind with the peel off backing to stick it to a surface) but it's not long enough.  At only 18" I can only span the marquee width one time.  I should have bought a longer strip but the 36" strips are only in soft white (not cool white like I wanted).  I am returning them and might take a drive to home depot today to see if I can get something there.

It's the little details like this that always slow me down at the ned because I didn't think it trough and just thought I'd wing it when the time comes...
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on January 15, 2022, 06:37:33 pm
So I should scuff up the back piece, right?  As it stands now, it is transparent and I think roughing the surface with some sandpaper will help diffuse the light.

Honestly, I think roughing up the surface of the back piece is a mistake. It will block more than diffuse the light, and introduce colours that aren't in your art. What you want to see when you look at the marquee is light, filtered through the colours on your marquee art. I rather like your art a lot, like a Monet it is an outdoor scene full of natural light, colour and activity. You don't want to be putting a grey wash through that.

I once did a few Mortal Kombat themed cabs and got some very nice marquee art printed, designed to be backlit. I then experimented with clear perspex, paper, and that translucent white diffuser I mentioned. Then, because I didn't quite trust my own eyes and objectivity, I took photos of the results so I could compare them side-by-side. The translucent white perspex backing won the competition easily, then colours were clear and bright with the lamp itself not visible at all. Done right, the white paper behind looked acceptable in 2nd place, lamp not visible but light/colour was dulled a little. Plain clear perspex didn't diffuse the light at all, uneven bright spots obscured the details in the art, lamp was essentially "visible" and, to my eyes, looked barely acceptable. I didn't try scratching but refer my comments above for why.

I wish I could produce the photos from that test here and now, but it was many years ago now and was only done for myself to understand. Even if I could find the photos, I couldn't be sure of the right captions/descriptions after all these years, so you'll just have to believe me  ;)

Javery I'm curious what you're planning to light the marquee?  A LED strip?  A simple 1 inch deep cardboard box behind it with the inside painted white and a led strip around the back wall should light that up easily enough.  White surface reflection works wonders

I made a cardboard box but lined it with aluminum foil.  Zeb also said I should have covered it in white paper instead so I might do that.  I bought a USB powered LED strip for $8 from Amazon (the kind with the peel off backing to stick it to a surface) but it's not long enough.  At only 18" I can only span the marquee width one time.  I should have bought a longer strip but the 36" strips are only in soft white (not cool white like I wanted).  I am returning them and might take a drive to home depot today to see if I can get something there.

IIRC, what I actually suggested was painting the inside of the box with some plain white paint. This will reflect just the visible light. "Ceiling white" is ideal if you have it, but otherwise (and thinking $$$) whatever leftover cans you might have from painting the house or something will look fine, so long as it is at least mostly white (most wall paints are actually off-white, which is why I recommended ceiling white above). Remove the foil, because it will look too harsh (shiny, reflects images, not just light) and will reflect pretty much everything except gamma rays back at your balls, and don't use paper (feels like a fire hazard).

As for the LED colours - cool white includes more of the light spectrum and will highlight the sky part (blues, violets) of your marquee more. A warmer light will highlight the beach parts (reds, orange, yellow) more. Whatever works for you!

I do love your work on these cabs. The marquee is a standout, a unique part that you want to emphasise for that feeling of an Avery family beach holiday that you want to capture.

Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on January 16, 2022, 09:44:58 am
Honestly, I think roughing up the surface of the back piece is a mistake. It will block more than diffuse the light, and introduce colours that aren't in your art. What you want to see when you look at the marquee is light, filtered through the colours on your marquee art. I rather like your art a lot, like a Monet it is an outdoor scene full of natural light, colour and activity. You don't want to be putting a grey wash through that.

I once did a few Mortal Kombat themed cabs and got some very nice marquee art printed, designed to be backlit. I then experimented with clear perspex, paper, and that translucent white diffuser I mentioned. Then, because I didn't quite trust my own eyes and objectivity, I took photos of the results so I could compare them side-by-side. The translucent white perspex backing won the competition easily, then colours were clear and bright with the lamp itself not visible at all. Done right, the white paper behind looked acceptable in 2nd place, lamp not visible but light/colour was dulled a little. Plain clear perspex didn't diffuse the light at all, uneven bright spots obscured the details in the art, lamp was essentially "visible" and, to my eyes, looked barely acceptable. I didn't try scratching but refer my comments above for why.

This is my worry with a completely transparent piece of plexiglas as the backer.  I am afraid the light will not be distributed evenly and I'll see the hot spots behind the marquee.  I'm going to experiment a bit and I might just bite the bullet and get something like THIS (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Direct-Wire-12-in-LED-White-Under-Cabinet-Light-57002A-WH/314818862) but I really don't want to.

IIRC, what I actually suggested was painting the inside of the box with some plain white paint. This will reflect just the visible light. "Ceiling white" is ideal if you have it, but otherwise (and thinking $$$) whatever leftover cans you might have from painting the house or something will look fine, so long as it is at least mostly white (most wall paints are actually off-white, which is why I recommended ceiling white above). Remove the foil, because it will look too harsh (shiny, reflects images, not just light) and will reflect pretty much everything except gamma rays back at your balls, and don't use paper (feels like a fire hazard).

Oh yeah - white paint.  I've got tons of it (I am slowly using up a 5 gallon tub of Bin Zissner) so it should be easy to remove the foil and paint the inside of the box... although painting cardboard seems kind of weird to me but no reason why it shouldn't work.

As for the LED colours - cool white includes more of the light spectrum and will highlight the sky part (blues, violets) of your marquee more. A warmer light will highlight the beach parts (reds, orange, yellow) more. Whatever works for you!

This is good to know - I won't sweat too much over it since these will not be in my house anyway.

I do love your work on these cabs. The marquee is a standout, a unique part that you want to emphasise for that feeling of an Avery family beach holiday that you want to capture.

Thanks - I wanted to make something unique and the art was the only way to do it.  In hindsight I don't think I would have painted the front black knowing how the marquee would turn out but it's only straight on where it's bugging me.  When taken together with the woodgrain side panels it looks really nice.  Also, the bright colors on the CPO should also help liven it up a bit.  Live and learn!   :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: vertexguy on January 16, 2022, 08:34:04 pm
This is my worry with a completely transparent piece of plexiglas as the backer.  I am afraid the light will not be distributed evenly and I'll see the hot spots behind the marquee.  I'm going to experiment a bit and I might just bite the bullet and get something like THIS (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Direct-Wire-12-in-LED-White-Under-Cabinet-Light-57002A-WH/314818862) but I really don't want to.

You are correct in your thinking.  Clear plexi will not diffuse a light source at all.  The thing is, it doesn't need to.  Think of the white box inner walls like giant light sources.  You want to shine your LEDs sideways to illuminate the back white walls, not the art. It's about reflective light.  You might even experiment with white paper on the back of the marquee.  The goal is for the light to bounce around like crazy behind the marquee before finally escaping through it.

Now to be fair my only experience with this approach is on the control and decorative lighting tests from my thread, but its working great so far.  I was going to try the same approach on my marquee when it's time.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on January 17, 2022, 07:12:12 am
I Googled up "light diffuser", very interesting.

If you can't afford a few dollars and the time to go down to your local plastics shop for a light diffuser backing piece for your marquee, try some baking paper. Baking paper is just the right translucency and comes in a roll, so easy to cut to size. If one piece isn't enough, just a second piece and add it in. Even better, it won't burn easily so no added fire risk :D
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on January 18, 2022, 02:10:54 pm
You are correct in your thinking.  Clear plexi will not diffuse a light source at all.  The thing is, it doesn't need to.  Think of the white box inner walls like giant light sources.  You want to shine your LEDs sideways to illuminate the back white walls, not the art. It's about reflective light.  You might even experiment with white paper on the back of the marquee.  The goal is for the light to bounce around like crazy behind the marquee before finally escaping through it.

Now to be fair my only experience with this approach is on the control and decorative lighting tests from my thread, but its working great so far.  I was going to try the same approach on my marquee when it's time.

Well I'm one step closer... just finished painting my cardboard boxes with some Kilz white primer/sealer.  Total slop job but I think it will work.  Ended up painting over layers of blue painter's tape and black cardboard.  It's... white.

I Googled up "light diffuser", very interesting.

If you can't afford a few dollars and the time to go down to your local plastics shop for a light diffuser backing piece for your marquee, try some baking paper. Baking paper is just the right translucency and comes in a roll, so easy to cut to size. If one piece isn't enough, just a second piece and add it in. Even better, it won't burn easily so no added fire risk :D

There has to be some tracing paper in my daughter's art supplies.  I could easily attach a piece to the back of the marquee plexiglas but maybe I won't have to.  The GameOnGrafix marque diffuses the light really well.  I'll know more once I set it all up hopefully this afternoon if I can get off these conference calls...
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on January 23, 2022, 04:02:24 pm
CPO is applied.  What a pain!

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220123/7452084e2e440e2b427e22a5eca624ae.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220123/7b106f21b07dc779ce1a30e9c979f8f9.jpg)

Am I doing this right?  I try to measure on the CP where the two buttons go and then poke holes with a pin through the center points of the buttons on the CPO and then line them up with my measurements, which are always off by a hair. 

Once I align the two holes I clamp the CPO in place and then peel half, stick it down, peel the other half, stick it down and then trim the excess with a razor.  Seems like this shouldnít take 90 minutes but whatever.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on January 23, 2022, 05:12:40 pm
Looks awesome.
Not sure there is any other way than what you did?

Some of those adhesives are meant to be 'floated' into place with a light dose of soapy water on the panel and a light squegee treatment.

That scenario buys you a bit of leeway in positioning that the straight drop on method does not, since you have a shot or two at repositioning if you blow it.

There must be a zillion youtube blurbs on it by now.
Which adhesive you are dealing with may be a critical element but I know the Scotchcal stuff I have seen is meant for the float application.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on January 23, 2022, 05:53:11 pm
Not sure there is any other way than what you did?

This is what I think as well.  I've watched tutorials on YouTube but they always start off with "get your artwork positioned" which is the part I am not sure I'm doing correctly!

 :dunno
Title: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on January 25, 2022, 01:39:22 pm
Buttons and stick installed.  It looks OK.  In my rush to get things done for Christmas, I bought buttons thinking Iíd have a black and white CP but it changed to color to match the marquee last minute.  So I have black buttonsÖ which definitely goes with the rest of the cab (black accents, black front panel, coin door, speaker grill, t-molding, etc.) but it looks a little off to me.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220125/0f46ffa728cbcc6084bab00030c7236a.jpg)

I have to keep telling myself this isnít t mine so I really shouldnít careÖ. It looks a lot better in place:

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220125/86b631c1c4a3765bff906a931c0039d7.jpg)

Getting close.  Just need to attach the CP, figure out the marquee light and wire everything, not in that order.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on January 25, 2022, 04:42:28 pm
Looks great.

Could always try a white one in the upper right just to see.

If you could find (make?) a white dust washer that would help too I bet.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on January 25, 2022, 06:26:49 pm
Looks great Javeryh!

Good thing is black matches everything, and there is plenty of black on the cab already so it works.

Otherwise a soft pastel light blue or pink for the buttons, maybe with a slight purple/magenta tinge, would work wonderfully. Hard to get good button colours by online order though. Harder again to get P1 and P2 buttons in colours other than black/white.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: PL1 on January 25, 2022, 07:52:48 pm
Otherwise a soft pastel light blue or pink for the buttons, maybe with a slight purple/magenta tinge, would work wonderfully. Hard to get good button colours by online order though. Harder again to get P1 and P2 buttons in colours other than black/white.
How about doing those custom colors using white player buttons/white start buttons/a white dust washer and Rit Dye?
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,135095.msg1422168.html#msg1422168 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,135095.msg1422168.html#msg1422168)

Note: Rit Dye does not work with translucent buttons.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,151050.msg1578692.html#msg1578692 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,151050.msg1578692.html#msg1578692)


Scott
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on January 26, 2022, 11:33:08 am
Looks great.

Could always try a white one in the upper right just to see.

If you could find (make?) a white dust washer that would help too I bet.

Good eye.  I am virtually certain I will replace the dust washer with something smaller and probably white.  It's huge and really stands out.  I think it might actually be the entire reason the CP looks a little off to me.  The black buttons look fine if you isolate them with your eye.

Looks great Javeryh!

Good thing is black matches everything, and there is plenty of black on the cab already so it works.

Otherwise a soft pastel light blue or pink for the buttons, maybe with a slight purple/magenta tinge, would work wonderfully. Hard to get good button colours by online order though. Harder again to get P1 and P2 buttons in colours other than black/white.

Thanks.  Yup, black matches everything and after sleeping on it I'm not as bothered by the look as I was when I popped in the buttons for the first time.  I did buy some white buttons but not enough for an entire CP plus I'd have to order white P1 and P2 start buttons to complete the look.

Otherwise a soft pastel light blue or pink for the buttons, maybe with a slight purple/magenta tinge, would work wonderfully. Hard to get good button colours by online order though. Harder again to get P1 and P2 buttons in colours other than black/white.
How about doing those custom colors using white player buttons/white start buttons/a white dust washer and Rit Dye?
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,135095.msg1422168.html#msg1422168 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,135095.msg1422168.html#msg1422168)

Note: Rit Dye does not work with translucent buttons.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,151050.msg1578692.html#msg1578692 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,151050.msg1578692.html#msg1578692)

This is something I would totally try but not for this project as much as I want to.  I need to finish these up and not sink any more money into them.  I'm in too deep already!   :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on January 26, 2022, 02:39:04 pm
How the crap do people use these cheap chinese encoders that come with 8" wires??  They don't reach 1/2 the controls!  Now I have to spend a couple hours splicing them together because I ned the weird whit tab that plugs into the encoder itself for each button.

 :banghead: :banghead:
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Gilrock on January 26, 2022, 04:11:15 pm
Yep.  I only do one splice per wire and then crimp a new blade connector on the other end.  It does allow you to make the wire the correct length.  After doing hundreds of crimps with heat shrink butt connectors for my Christmas show I'm pretty fast at it.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: firedance on January 27, 2022, 06:53:56 am
How the crap do people use these cheap chinese encoders that come with 8" wires??  They don't reach 1/2 the controls!  Now I have to spend a couple hours splicing them together because I ned the weird whit tab that plugs into the encoder itself for each button.

 :banghead: :banghead:

The bartops i build use these encoders, most of the wires don't need extending, the ones that do i just use spare wires (if any) that come with the kit or cut a wire in half then use similar gauge wire to extend it to the desired length then solder together, hope that makes sense  :)
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Mike A on January 27, 2022, 07:54:25 am
When you buy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, expect it to stink.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Gilrock on January 27, 2022, 08:29:52 am
I've used a couple of the zero delay encoders and never seen a problem with them.  I didn't know they were shunned here before I bought them...lol.  I also have an old IPAC that I can no longer program.  And yes I know they supposedly have an older program you can use but it don't work.  Not sure if its because of Windows 10 but I'm a software engineer and I couldn't figure it out so I ended up just having to make my programs work with the last way the buttons had been set.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on January 27, 2022, 09:13:02 am
Yep.  I only do one splice per wire and then crimp a new blade connector on the other end.  It does allow you to make the wire the correct length.  After doing hundreds of crimps with heat shrink butt connectors for my Christmas show I'm pretty fast at it.

The bartops i build use these encoders, most of the wires don't need extending, the ones that do i just use spare wires (if any) that come with the kit or cut a wire in half then use similar gauge wire to extend it to the desired length then solder together, hope that makes sense  :)

How do you guys do the extending/crimping/soldering?  These have to be like 24 gauge wires - they are so tiny and wilt under any heat.  Should I just make a hook on each end, twist them together and use some heat shrink tubing if I even have some that small?  I might be forced to use electrical tape... ugh I hate this.

When you buy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, expect it to stink.

True.  I knew these were cheap but looking online I don't see anyone complaining about something so obvious and I also don't see these connectors sold in longer lengths.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Gilrock on January 27, 2022, 09:24:41 am
I like using heat shrink butt connectors but I already have a nice crimp tool and a heat gun.  If the wire is thin then I strip it extra long and fold it in half before inserting in the connector for crimping.  I get the pink ones off of Amazon which are good down to 22 awg so folding a 24 awg wire in half will work.  When you heat up the connector it shrinks the plastic and makes the connection strong even though the wire was kinda weak.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Gilrock on January 27, 2022, 09:26:43 am
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CNFJK0A/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CNFJK0A/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

Just so you know what I'm talking about.  $10 for 240 of them.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on January 27, 2022, 09:46:54 am
After wiring many cabs I came to the conclusion that you were better off sticking with JAMMA, if possible.

You can buy JAMMA harnesses online cheaply, and they usually come with crimps already attached and labelling so you know which wire for what button etc. Also get yourself a pack of 28 pin JAMMA fingerboards, the male bits that go into the harnesses.

Then all you have to do is solder your keyboard encoder wires to the fingerboard pads, easy stuff, and 8" may be enough. Doing it like this there is probably little need for soldering wire extensions or heat shrink. Saves you a lot of time. Most of your soldering wires together will just be daisy chaining grounds and such, which you'd have to do anyway.

JAMMA is standard so it makes it easier for you to swap things around later. Modular design is better design.

If you can get some 22 AWG wire that will work better. 24 is OK but yeah fragile.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: JDFan on January 27, 2022, 09:48:28 am
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CNFJK0A/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CNFJK0A/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

Just so you know what I'm talking about.  $10 for 240 of them.

Those and these ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/224099893831 ) and some extra wire makes it simple to lengthen as many as you need quickly ( usually only a couple need the extra length if locating the encoder board on the control panel.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on January 27, 2022, 11:56:47 am
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CNFJK0A/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CNFJK0A/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

Just so you know what I'm talking about.  $10 for 240 of them.

OK I'm in.  I'l use these for other projects eventually and it will save me the headache of electrical tape or cutting shrink tubing.  The encoder came with more wire than I need so I'll cannibalize the extras for additional wire.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on January 27, 2022, 03:44:49 pm
Canít reach 4 switches!

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220127/2a1ca9b065d3111ccbed3f5582839591.jpg)

I also had to angle the encoder so the cables would fit.  It should work and Iíll clean it up with some zip ties but itís a hot mess.  Things are much tighter than I though they would be. 

Now I wait until those butt connectors arrive tomorrow.  By Sunday night I hope to be playing Pac-Man on at least one of these things.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Gilrock on January 27, 2022, 04:09:51 pm
In this other thread you can see where I posted a photo of where I extended some wiring.  I even cutoff most the ends of all the wires so that I could reduce the wires to the exact lengths I needed.  I think a jamma connector would be overkill for this application the only thing I had entering this control panel area was a USB cable and mine was a bartop not a full up arcade.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,165008.msg1740071.html#msg1740071 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,165008.msg1740071.html#msg1740071)
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on January 27, 2022, 04:33:06 pm
In this other thread you can see where I posted a photo of where I extended some wiring.  I even cutoff most the ends of all the wires so that I could reduce the wires to the exact lengths I needed.  I think a jamma connector would be overkill for this application the only thing I had entering this control panel area was a USB cable and mine was a bartop not a full up arcade.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,165008.msg1740071.html#msg1740071 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,165008.msg1740071.html#msg1740071)

Damn that's pretty.  Leaf switches too.  Looks like you didn't even use the UDLR connections on the encoder and just plugged them into buttons labeled K1-K12 and remapped them in MAME?  Did the encoder work with MAME out of the box or did you have to tell MAME it was a joypad and not a keyboard?
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on January 28, 2022, 06:12:20 am
In this other thread you can see where I posted a photo of where I extended some wiring.  I even cutoff most the ends of all the wires so that I could reduce the wires to the exact lengths I needed.  I think a jamma connector would be overkill for this application the only thing I had entering this control panel area was a USB cable and mine was a bartop not a full up arcade.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,165008.msg1740071.html#msg1740071 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,165008.msg1740071.html#msg1740071)

Well, I like doing JAMMA but have to agree for your bartop it would be overkill. Considering how short the wires are, the way you installed is really the only way to do it. Neat work.

Butt connectors sound terribly kinky :D
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on January 28, 2022, 12:46:28 pm
Kinky?!
Do you know the difference between erotic and kinky...?

Erotic is when you use a feather.

For kinky you use the whole chicken.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on January 28, 2022, 03:16:44 pm
Kinky?!
Do you know the difference between erotic and kinky...?

Erotic is when you use a feather.

For kinky you use the whole chicken.

We have a great many chickens here   :laugh2:
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on January 29, 2022, 05:04:02 pm
I like using heat shrink butt connectors but I already have a nice crimp tool and a heat gun.  If the wire is thin then I strip it extra long and fold it in half before inserting in the connector for crimping.  I get the pink ones off of Amazon which are good down to 22 awg so folding a 24 awg wire in half will work.  When you heat up the connector it shrinks the plastic and makes the connection strong even though the wire was kinda weak.

I spent the afternoon wiring and then configuring the controls.  The butt joints worked pretty good although they would not shrink unless I used an open flame and I was worried the wires would melt or catch on fire.  The joints seem secure though when is the main thing.  Everything is now working as expected.  Power to the pi boots to the Attract Mode menu showing the game list.  Any button on the CP is set to launch the game (P1 Start, P2 Start, Button 1, Button 2 or Pause - doesn't matter which one you press).  When the game launches, everything also works as expected and pressing P1 Start and P2 Start will Exit back to the Attract Mode menu.  As far as I can tell you cannot access any settings or menus using just the buttons on the CP.  The coin door isn't wired yet but that will be the last thing I do.

I only have a couple of small things left but I'm actually not sure how I'm going to go about doing it all.

1.  Secure the control panels to the cabinet (yet keep them removable).  I bought cocktail cabinet latches for this and I think they will work but it is super tight.  Not much space to secure the metal brackets underneath the CP along both sides and I don't trust myself to measure and get it right so I will need to somehow mark the drill holes while the CP is in place and I'm holding the bracket where I want.  Also, I need to add some 3/4" material to the inside of the cabinet so I have a spot to put the brackets themselves.  The CP sits on some 3/4" rails but the bracket needs to be screwed in below them.  So I need to add some material there.  Otherwise, how are you guys securing your control panels?

2.  The light boxes I built are not going to work with the CP in place.  The buttons and wires are in the way so I need to redo these and make them much more precise in size.  The LED strip is less than 1/2" thick so that's as deep as the box needs to be.  I don't feel like doing this again but I don't have a choice.  Then I need to figure out how to secure the box in place.

3.  Connect everything in the cabinet, wire the power button to the pi, wire the coin door and get the SmartStrip to work properly.

I should be done with this in a week or so taking my time.   :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: vertexguy on January 29, 2022, 07:24:25 pm
Quote
2.  The light boxes I built are not going to work with the CP in place.  The buttons and wires are in the way so I need to redo these and make them much more precise in size.  The LED strip is less than 1/2" thick so that's as deep as the box needs to be.  I don't feel like doing this again but I don't have a choice.  Then I need to figure out how to secure the box in place.

Did you test this to get the even illumination you wanted?
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: yamatetsu on January 30, 2022, 07:30:13 am
I don't trust myself to measure and get it right so I will need to somehow mark the drill holes while the CP is in place and I'm holding the bracket where I want.

Use double tape to put the bracket in place, mark the drill holes, remove the bracket.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on January 30, 2022, 11:38:59 am
Did you test this to get the even illumination you wanted?

Kind of.  I held everything in place and it looked OKish?  I just want this to be over so if the lighting isn't absolutely perfect, I'll live.

Use double tape to put the bracket in place, mark the drill holes, remove the bracket.

Wow I'm dumb.  Such an easy solution.   :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on January 31, 2022, 01:10:40 pm
CP is 100% complete.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220131/83bc2033669051e536f003a14a907af3.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220131/2ce69751d3e3afce952d3066d9238a25.jpg)

The light box behind the marquee is going to be tight - maybe too tight.  The top connector of the joystick in the first pic is in the way.  Not sure what to do but Iím going to wing it this afternoon.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Gilrock on January 31, 2022, 01:26:47 pm
For configuring the buttons I don't remember everything I did.  I ran that bartop with RetroPi and with a Mister setup.  The Mister had a wizard for mapping the controls where you just push the joystick each way to define the input.  For RetroPi I remember it being more work depending on the emulator.  RetroArch was the biggest pain.

For shrinking the butt connectors a heat gun made for shrinking heat shrink is best.  I found a used one at a local electronics shop.  The air comes out hot enough to burn your fingers but its concentrated to the size of a penny.  I wave the air back and forth and you get good at being able to watch the plastic start to melt to know where to move the air.  And yes gotta be careful to keep the hot air off the wires cause they will burn fast.  Release the trigger when you see smoke...lol.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Mike A on January 31, 2022, 01:40:02 pm
Dang. I thought these things were finished two months ago.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on January 31, 2022, 03:31:32 pm
For configuring the buttons I don't remember everything I did.  I ran that bartop with RetroPi and with a Mister setup.  The Mister had a wizard for mapping the controls where you just push the joystick each way to define the input.  For RetroPi I remember it being more work depending on the emulator.  RetroArch was the biggest pain.

For shrinking the butt connectors a heat gun made for shrinking heat shrink is best.  I found a used one at a local electronics shop.  The air comes out hot enough to burn your fingers but its concentrated to the size of a penny.  I wave the air back and forth and you get good at being able to watch the plastic start to melt to know where to move the air.  And yes gotta be careful to keep the hot air off the wires cause they will burn fast.  Release the trigger when you see smoke...lol.

yeah, I need to get a heat gun but I'm too lazy since I don't need one that often.  The lighter did the trick.

Dang. I thought these things were finished two months ago.

Once I missed my Christmas deadline due to the printer mishap I didn't need to finish.  I have 11 more months now!
Title: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on February 01, 2022, 10:24:09 am
OKÖ I remade the light box out of a Cheerios box.  I had to be a lot more precise than I was with my first attempt.  1/2Ē deep and no more if I wanted it to fit properly.  The thin cardboard made a huge difference too.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220131/72123ba64435ad638e456f4aa25b1d26.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220131/1234bfe5f0323a0cf2d4960a3f34e1ab.jpg)

I still need to paint the inside white but it is a much better fit overall.  The LED strip will go around the perimeter on the 1/2Ē wall so all the lights will face inward and hopefully the white will reflect enough to light up the marquee.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220201/d60ddb2393b6832c32ca413cb8b51a2f.jpg)

This is a shot of the box loosely in place.  You can also see the cocktail clips on the left and right that hold the CP down.  I had to install some blocking so they had something to screw into.

Today Iím installing all the hardware so it should be playable this afternoon.  Iím waiting on the LED strips before Iíll be able to call this 100% complete.  I ended up ordering longer ones even though I didnít want to.  Whatís $14 more into this sinkhole?
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on February 01, 2022, 11:18:02 am
Would you guys mount a raspberry pi inside of a case (no heat sink) or just use some PCB feet and install it naked?

EDIT: Never mind.  The PCB feet don't fit - the screw holes on the pi are too small. Weird but whatever.  I'm a little worried about the glue on the velcro failing when I use it to mount the case to the side of the cabinet (and pulling off before the velcro comes apart).  I'm going to try and staple it down.

I'm also trying to figure out where to put everything.  I'm sure it doesn't matter but would you mount the SmartStrip on the interior wall or on the floor of the cabinet?  The power cords and various connectors will just kind of be floating inside no matter how I do this.  I've got 3 things that need power (pi, monitor, amp) and two connections to the pi (VGA cable and 3.5mm audio jack) and no matter how I position things some of the wires will need to cross the interior to get where they need to go.

I'm pretty excited to play some Pac-Man.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on February 01, 2022, 08:12:31 pm
https://youtu.be/6r8zQIh-8A8

Well, it's finally working.  I still need to install the LED strip when it arrives on Thursday and tomorrow I need to wire the coin door for real.  I'm going to add a credit button behind the coin return as well as hook up the P1 and P2 coin mechs (and configure them in MAME settings).
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on February 01, 2022, 10:48:37 pm
I dig it.
Looking great.

Does it only coin up after after a game is selected (or lose your credits if you change your mind?)
I'm not familiar with R-pi animals yet so curious to know.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on February 01, 2022, 11:02:52 pm
Would you guys mount a raspberry pi inside of a case (no heat sink) or just use some PCB feet and install it naked?

EDIT: Never mind.  The PCB feet don't fit - the screw holes on the pi are too small. Weird but whatever.  I'm a little worried about the glue on the velcro failing when I use it to mount the case to the side of the cabinet (and pulling off before the velcro comes apart).  I'm going to try and staple it down.

You can probably just drill the Pi PCB holes a little larger. I've done this with many other PCBs, like TV chassis and audio amps, for the purpose of screwing them down in a cab.

Standard PCB feet use a 3mm screw, so that is the size of drill bit you'll need. PCBs are easy to drill into. Go slowly, even rotating the drill bit by hand if necessary. Inspect carefully to make sure there are no traces nearby to worry about, however designers usually leave some space around these mounting holes. DC ground traces should be fine anyway, will not cause problems. Use a plastic washer or rubber grommet if concerned.

I'll qualify that advice with "I've never done this with a Pi", but expect it to be similar.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on February 02, 2022, 06:55:29 am
I dig it.
Looking great.

Does it only coin up after after a game is selected (or lose your credits if you change your mind?)
I'm not familiar with R-pi animals yet so curious to know.


Thanks - no, if you put a coin in on the game selection screen you do not get a credit.  Iíve actually never seen any setup that would account for this other than a 60-in-1 or something where they are set up that way.  Iím sure someone could figure it out but when you launch a game you go through initial boot sequence so no credits are there and ďUI CancelĒ in MAME stops the game from running so you lose any credits you put in before exiting.

You can probably just drill the Pi PCB holes a little larger. I've done this with many other PCBs, like TV chassis and audio amps, for the purpose of screwing them down in a cab.

Standard PCB feet use a 3mm screw, so that is the size of drill bit you'll need. PCBs are easy to drill into. Go slowly, even rotating the drill bit by hand if necessary. Inspect carefully to make sure there are no traces nearby to worry about, however designers usually leave some space around these mounting holes. DC ground traces should be fine anyway, will not cause problems. Use a plastic washer or rubber grommet if concerned.

I'll qualify that advice with "I've never done this with a Pi", but expect it to be similar.

I stared at the PCB holes for like 20 minutes before deciding against it.  I even started measuring drill bits (I have English sets so no 3mm bit exactly).  Things are so crowded on the pi that the head of the screw that came with the PCB feet actually touches the mini HDMI port in one corner and will not fit.  I could have maybe gotten away with 3 but at that point I didnít feel 100% comfortable messing with it. 

Later today Iíll take a pic of the inside showing how I mounted everything - itís so empty!
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on February 02, 2022, 07:12:01 am
I stared at the PCB holes for like 20 minutes before deciding against it.  I even started measuring drill bits (I have English sets so no 3mm bit exactly).  Things are so crowded on the pi that the head of the screw that came with the PCB feet actually touches the mini HDMI port in one corner and will not fit.  I could have maybe gotten away with 3 but at that point I didnít feel 100% comfortable messing with it. 

You could use smaller screws and something else to support the problem corners, like a masonry plug or even just some scrap wood. Screw the Pi corner onto a corner of the wood, screw the wood into the cabinet. I have done similar when spots have been too small or PCB feet hard to find.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: wp34 on February 02, 2022, 10:40:24 am
Glad to see you are still making progress.  That CP looks great!
Title: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on February 04, 2022, 12:41:45 pm
Glad to see you are still making progress.  That CP looks great!
Thanks!  Coming to the finish line now.  Paint is drying on the second light box I made and the longer LED strip has arrived.  I spent a little time trying to tidy up the wiring inside the mostly empty cab:

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220204/1834159556587e8db42a279f4fd9b7fc.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220204/91068a1870e1a7fb1f8c391fa6ed332f.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220204/0192f86006d4877397511a295a82a6a3.jpg)

You can see I ended up drilling a hole in the raspberry pi case for the wires to the power button, which is accessible through the coin door along with the volume knob on the amp.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220204/b2c488d9ea51c7610b76deda81249867.jpg)

The only remaining item is the marquee light.  Once itís done Iíll do a quick overview and then itís on to the next project!
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: lomoverde on February 04, 2022, 01:38:56 pm
These look boss  :applaud:

Im determined to finish my half built bartop next,and this raspberry pi build you used looks like the way to go.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on February 04, 2022, 03:05:59 pm
These look boss  :applaud:

Im determined to finish my half built bartop next,and this raspberry pi build you used looks like the way to go.
Thanks for the kind words.  After seeing your stenciled side art the wheels are spinning for the next projectÖ

The pi setup is really great for a simple cab like this.  Only thing that doesnít work are any CRT shaders/scan lines.  The games wonít even start if you enable that stuff in MAME.  Makes me wonder how they do it in Retropie.  But these are going to homes that will not care at all or even think about it so Iím not too fussed over it.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on February 04, 2022, 05:16:31 pm
UGH.  Nothing is simple it seems.  I finished the light box but the LED are blinking rapidly instead of just staying on.  I plugged them into a USB port on the pi expecting them to just work and they don't.  When I plug the LED strip into my laptop, the lights come on and do not blink.  So I'm thinking there is some sort of power issue like the pi not providing enough maybe?  I guess not all USB ports are created equal. 

Can anyone help so I can get this working?  When I brought my laptop over to see how the marquee looked it was absolutely stunning.  I really thought I was done!
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: PL1 on February 04, 2022, 05:29:56 pm
I finished the light box but the LED are blinking rapidly instead of just staying on.  I plugged them into a USB port on the pi expecting them to just work and they don't.  When I plug the LED strip into my laptop, the lights come on and do not blink.  So I'm thinking there is some sort of power issue like the pi not providing enough maybe?  I guess not all USB ports are created equal. 
No surprise that the RasPi doesn't have enough spare power to run the LED strip.

Try a 120VAC to USB power adapter.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51oXmr-Xq-L._AC_UY327_QL65_.jpg)

https://www.amazon.com/Charger-FOBSUNLAND-Universal-Adapter-S6-Note/dp/B073Q1N8FL/ (https://www.amazon.com/Charger-FOBSUNLAND-Universal-Adapter-S6-Note/dp/B073Q1N8FL/)


Scott
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on February 04, 2022, 06:19:24 pm
You are right that USB ports are not created equal, though in theory USB 2.0 ports are meant to be rated for 500mA.

I don't know exactly how much your LED strips use, but you can guesstimate 20mA per LED and do the math. So, if there are 25 LEDs then that already adds up to 500mA.

Those USB wall-warts can get sometimes get pretty warm, should be fine but worth monitoring how hot they get over time.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on February 05, 2022, 02:22:08 pm
No surprise that the RasPi doesn't have enough spare power to run the LED strip.

Try a 120VAC to USB power adapter.

I have a ton of extra iphone chargers in the house so I'll use one of those I guess.  I really wanted to run this off of the pi - I had to order an extender for the USB cable so it would reach the power strip and the smart strip doesn't seem to be smart enough to cut power to it when the pi is turned off so I need to mess with the sensitivity.

You are right that USB ports are not created equal, though in theory USB 2.0 ports are meant to be rated for 500mA.

I don't know exactly how much your LED strips use, but you can guesstimate 20mA per LED and do the math. So, if there are 25 LEDs then that already adds up to 500mA.

Those USB wall-warts can get sometimes get pretty warm, should be fine but worth monitoring how hot they get over time.

I am going to cut off about 2 feet of the 6 foot LED strip.  Maybe that will stop the blinking because there will be enough power with fewer LEDs to light up?  It's worth a shot I suppose.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on February 05, 2022, 04:22:13 pm
Best way to know how much power the LED strips use is to run them from a usb AC charger and power strip, and plug the power strip into a wall plug ammeter. Then youíll know exactly.

You still get the blinking even when using AC directly?
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on February 05, 2022, 04:42:51 pm
Best way to know how much power the LED strips use is to run them from a usb AC charger and power strip, and plug the power strip into a wall plug ammeter. Then youíll know exactly.

You still get the blinking even when using AC directly?

Nope.  When using power from the wall or even power from my laptop's USB port the lights are bright and do not blink.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on February 05, 2022, 04:47:05 pm
It is just what Scott said then, Pi power rail lacks the juice. Youíll have to run them by usb wall charger or use a powered usb hub (which means youíll need another power socket anyway)
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on February 05, 2022, 06:04:40 pm
It is just what Scott said then, Pi power rail lacks the juice. Youíll have to run them by usb wall charger or use a powered usb hub (which means youíll need another power socket anyway)

Yup.  I cut the strip in half and the blinking went from 2 flashes a second to 1 flash every 5 seconds but it's still blinking so I have it plugged into the smart strip now and I'm trying to dial in the sensitivity.  Right now I turn on the pi and the monitor comes on but the amp and the LED strip are permanently on for some reason.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: PL1 on February 05, 2022, 06:26:14 pm
Right now I turn on the pi and the monitor comes on but the amp and the LED strip are permanently on for some reason.
At the risk of sounding like Captain Obvious, are the amp and LED strip plugged into switched outlets or always-on outlets?

The strip you have has color-coded outlets.

Sounds like the color that the monitor is plugged into is for switched outlets, the color that the RasPi is plugged into is the control outlet, and the other color is for always-on outlets.


Scott
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on February 05, 2022, 07:29:23 pm
At the risk of sounding like Captain Obvious, are the amp and LED strip plugged into switched outlets or always-on outlets?

The strip you have has color-coded outlets.

Sounds like the color that the monitor is plugged into is for switched outlets, the color that the RasPi is plugged into is the control outlet, and the other color is for always-on outlets.

I would not put anything past me to mess up.

The monitor, amp and LED strip are all plugged into the green outlets marked "automatically switched outlets".  The pi is plugged into the blue outlet marked "control outlet" and I have nothing plugged into the red outlets marked "always on outlets".  The expectation is that when the pi comes on (blue) the strip senses power and turns on the green outlets.  There is a screw on the side of the unit that you can adjust so I have to play with that I guess.

I'm also having coin door issues (again).  Both coin mechs are working but the button I added behind the coin return only works every few presses instead of all the time.  Multimeter time tomorrow I guess.

I don't know how people build these things to sell.  I am so paranoid that once I hand it over something will go wrong and I'll be 300 miles away.  I don't think I'll ever do this for someone else again.  Too stressful.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on February 05, 2022, 07:30:26 pm
Remember that discussion we had waaaaaay back about using a relay vs a smart strip?

Smart strips can allow some current through, like a dripping tap, until the master outlet draws a certain minimum then it turns on the tap fully. They have to let some current through because otherwise stuff like standby function won't work. I really don't know for certain but guess that your LED strip might use ~2-3W and falls under the threshold. The minimum to trip the circuit to fully open might be 5W.

Some might depend on your local mains power supply too. I have a smart strip in my main cab because it was the first I did and it was easy, it is still there now. That always operated perfectly in Australia. Come to rural Thailand and the power isn't regulated as well, I found the cab would sometimes suddenly try to turn itself on (starts up for a moment, 1-2 seconds, then dies) due to a surge or something. Occasionally it succeeded and I woke up to see the cab fully on! If I looked inside I often saw the LED on the audio amplifier was lit, even though everything was meant to be off, implying some current leaking through. Maybe it is developing self awareness? Cue Twilight Zone music.

Just as mysteriously, the issue seems to have gone away again. So I put that down partly to the smartstrip and partly to the local power supply management/regulation/stability. Also we put in three-phase supply a few years ago so that may have something to do with it.

Back on topic, and assuming Scott's theory about the colored outlets doesn't work out, you may get better outcomes using a powered USB hub, if it is one that stays "off" until the Pi wakes, and make sure the Pi USB ports are not set to supply standby power. Unfortunately that would mean adding another thing and cables that all need to be secured properly too.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on February 05, 2022, 08:00:17 pm
Another thing about the blinking, your LED strip might benefit from is a large-ish capacitor, like a 470u or 680u or higher, across the 5v/GND input terminals, as close as possible to the LEDs themselves. Cathode (short lead) to GND and anode (long lead) to 5v.

You can be creative and add more than one cap too, say some smaller 1uF ceramic caps, which might be a good idea for along a strip.

The cap(s) provide a "reserve" that help reduce power ripples by reacting to voltage changes, trying to even them out. Thus the power supply is more consistent, less high/low waves. This is why power supplies always have those big caps in them. Anyway, it might help to reduce or eliminate the blinking problem, maybe in combination with something else, but it can't make your Pi provide more power.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on February 06, 2022, 12:55:09 pm
Remember that discussion we had waaaaaay back about using a relay vs a smart strip?

yeah... I was hoping to not have to do anything other than a commercially sourced power strip for this project.  I'm still pretty confident I can get everything to work like I want but it's going to be annoying.  This afternoon I need to modify the light box (lots of leakage) and then figure out a way to actually attach it to the front panel.  Tape seems like it will fail over time but it's a cardboard box so mechanical fasteners probably won't work.  Or maybe they will.  I need to think on it.

Once that is done, I will power it up and set the sensitivity on the smart strip to behave like I want. Hopefully I can dial that in.  Last time I messed with it, the amp wouldn't turn off but I didn't really think it was a big deal.  The marquee light, on the other hand, needs to power down with the pi.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: vertexguy on February 06, 2022, 05:44:46 pm
Couldn't you just use wood glue to attach the box maybe with some additional cardboard flaps?  Some tape or a light clamp to hold it until dry?  Maybe some calk for light leaks?
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: yamatetsu on February 06, 2022, 06:20:51 pm
Do you have enough space to use something like this?

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=164992.0;attach=390101;image)

You could build a sort of cage with it that holds the box.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on February 06, 2022, 06:32:00 pm
Do you have enough space to use something like this?

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=164992.0;attach=390101;image)

You could build a sort of cage with it that holds the box.

This should work.  Two vertical strips around the back should be more than enough.  I may actually have some of this stuff too.   :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on February 06, 2022, 10:16:42 pm
Even 4 screws halfway driven in around a posterboard box with some zip ties or wire to pin it in place would be good insurance to hold it up.
Might not even need caulk and it can be removed if you need.

These are looking awesome by the way!

I'm envious of your software setup.
 :)
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on February 07, 2022, 05:57:06 pm
OK you guys really helped with this.  I ended up using metal wire to hold the box in place.  Thereís still a little bit of leakage on the inside but none from the outside so this works.  I used 4 screws to hole the marquee in place and was able to loosen them, twist the wire around the screw and tighten them back down.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220207/76d89e0b19e05dad23e194f6cc0ea37f.jpg)

Itís hard to see because the wire is green but itís there.  From the front the marquee looks absolutely stunning.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220207/7ee8fda098cfd7dda29b445477a35d04.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220207/28e51de77dcf7f7730eb590d39651502.jpg)

Itís so hard to get a good pic with my iPhone but hopefully you get the idea.  Everything seems to be working other than the shutdown so I need to play with that tomorrow.

Iím almost finished! 
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on February 07, 2022, 07:35:25 pm
Gotta love easy!

Looks sweet.  Nicely done.
I was hoping for you that a little light leakage inside was irrelevant.

So, what will you do with them until delivery next Christmas?!
 :o
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on February 07, 2022, 07:47:27 pm
Totally awesome  :notworthy:
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on February 07, 2022, 10:54:49 pm
Gotta love easy!

Looks sweet.  Nicely done.
I was hoping for you that a little light leakage inside was irrelevant.

So, what will you do with them until delivery next Christmas?!
 :o


Thanks!  I guess Iíll just play them from time to time until I can de,over them.  Iíll probably take a couple of trips north on a weekend with down time.  Kids would like to see their cousins anyway.

Totally awesome  :notworthy:

If only the stupid marquee light would shut off.  I have messed with the sensitivity on the smart strip but canít seem to dial it in.  The monitor is working fine (goes on and off when pi is powered on and off) but the LED strip and amp do not.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on February 08, 2022, 12:06:46 pm
Alright... I don't understand what is going on.  Cabinet is 100% done except for getting it to turn on and off like I want.  Everything is plugged into the Smart Strip properly:

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220208/3914ca3455192aa3adef44d906766bd1.jpg)

The pi is plugged into the control outlet and the monitor, LED strip and amp are plugged into the green "automatically switched outlets".  I would expect power to the pi to turn on all three devices but only the monitor comes on with the pi.  The other 2 are on constantly.  There also appears to only be two behavior changes when playing with the sensitivity dial on the side of the smart strip - either nothing will turn on with the pi (dial too low, not letting power through) or the LED Strip and amp remain on no matter what (turning the pi off does not shut these two things down). I could understand the LED strip behaving weird because maybe it needs so little power to function that the Smart Strip cannot go low enough... but the amp for sure should be turning on and off even though I care more about the LEDs.

Pulling power from the pi or the encoder (which is powered by the pi) for the LED strip is a non-starter.  There isn't enough juice.  Not only does the LED strip blink when connected to a USB slot on the pi but the encoder light blinks as well causing the controls to lose focus.  This also happens when I plug in a USB keyboard to change settings.  There just isn't enough juice in the pi to run everything.

What are my options here?  Keep in mind I need a super dumbed down explanation because I am super dumb. 

Is there something other than a Smart Strip I could use here (that is 1000% safe)?  I did some searching and the IOT Power Relay (https://www.sparkfun.com/products/14236) looks like it might work but it is sold out everywhere.  Looks like you plug the pi into the "Always On" outlet and then run a wire from the USB port on the pi to the Power Relay so when the pi comes on, the Power relay turns on the other outlets.  Seems exactly like a Smart Strip to me though so not sure why my current. solution isn't working...
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Mike A on February 08, 2022, 12:40:02 pm
Why do you need all of that?

Just wire a regular surge strip to a switch and be done with it.

On, Off. Easy.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on February 08, 2022, 12:58:51 pm
Why do you need all of that?

Just wire a regular surge strip to a switch and be done with it.

On, Off. Easy.

The pi needs to be shut down safely.  You can't just cut power to it or you will corrupt the memory card.  I have a pushbutton wired to the GPIO pins on the pi with a safe shutdown script that runs when the button is pressed so the pi can be powered on and of safely.

I don't understand why the monitor works perfectly but the other two things do not.  It's not making sense unless they draw so little power that when the "automatically switched" outlets are shut down, there is still enough power for these things but not enough for the monitor.  I can't be the only person to have encountered this before though.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Mike A on February 08, 2022, 01:06:16 pm
Please can we all stop with the Pi shutdown thing?

It will only get corrupted if you shut it off while it is writing to the card. And not even always then.

Keep an extra card handy.

Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Mike A on February 08, 2022, 01:09:37 pm
This forum in general gets a little wacky about spending a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- ton of time and energy on ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- that might never happen, and if it does it is easily fixed.

You could always make the thing read only. Then your chance of corruption is just about zero.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: PL1 on February 08, 2022, 02:01:36 pm
Looks like there are two ways to proceed.

Option 1 - Go simple like Mike suggests.

Use the power inlet on/off switch to apply/remove power.

Use the power button on the GPIO for safe shutdown.
- Switch off the power inlet several seconds after the monitor switches off.

Stash a backup SD in the cab and keep a backup at home so you can repair a corrupted SD.

Option 2 - Go more complicated.

Like Zebidee suggested earlier, it looks like the smart strip is allowing enough current through the switched outlets to power the amp and the LED strip.

Disclaimer: I'm not sure exactly how to do this, but it can be done.

Use a relay board controlled by one of the GPIO pins on the RasPi to switch power on/off to the amp and LED strip.
- During startup you would need to set that GPIO pin to high.
- During shutdown you might need to set the GPIO pin to low if the shutdown doesn't remove the logic high voltage from that pin.
- The relay would be spliced into the Hot wire of the power splitter cord before the split.  Leave Ground and Neutral always connected.
- The power splitter cord would be plugged into an always-on outlet.

  Relay board - https://www.amazon.com/HiLetgo-Channel-optocoupler-Support-Trigger/dp/B00LW15A4W/ (https://www.amazon.com/HiLetgo-Channel-optocoupler-Support-Trigger/dp/B00LW15A4W/)
NOTE: This relay board can trigger on high or low.  Most boards only trigger on low.

  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61Ynyg4Sd8L._AC_SL1100_.jpg)

  Power splitter cord - https://www.amazon.com/Cablelera-Power-Extension-Splitter-ZWACPQAG-14/dp/B00FRODUR4/?th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/Cablelera-Power-Extension-Splitter-ZWACPQAG-14/dp/B00FRODUR4/?th=1)

  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51sQbNtoVXL._AC_SL1000_.jpg)

----------------------

Mike's way is a lot easier and less expensive.   :cheers:


Scott
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Gilrock on February 08, 2022, 02:06:56 pm
Someone should create a GUI with a shutdown menu option. ;)
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Mike A on February 08, 2022, 02:15:56 pm
Can we get an accounting of how many times a Pi setup for emulation actually corrupted a drive for people here?

Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: pbj on February 08, 2022, 02:51:43 pm
It happened to me when cutting power sitting at the Emulation Station menu, and I had used the Pi less than 10 times.  Now I do a shutdown from the menu which is annoying.

Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on February 08, 2022, 03:40:10 pm
It happened to me once with a pi3 before I had any idea it was even a thing.  I downloaded some ridiculous image with games and emulators set up but I hated it and after spending hours deleting games and changing the stupid artwork that came with it I corrupted the memory card by pulling the plug.

Looks like there are two ways to proceed.

Option 1 - Go simple like Mike suggests.

Use the power inlet on/off switch to apply/remove power.

Use the power button on the GPIO for safe shutdown.
- Switch off the power inlet several seconds after the monitor switches off.

Stash a backup SD in the cab and keep a backup at home so you can repair a corrupted SD.

Option 2 - Go more complicated.

Like Zebidee suggested earlier, it looks like the smart strip is allowing enough current through the switched outlets to power the amp and the LED strip.

Disclaimer: I'm not sure exactly how to do this, but it can be done.

Use a relay board controlled by one of the GPIO pins on the RasPi to switch power on/off to the amp and LED strip.
- During startup you would need to set that GPIO pin to high.
- During shutdown you might need to set the GPIO pin to low if the shutdown doesn't remove the logic high voltage from that pin.
- The relay would be spliced into the Hot wire of the power splitter cord before the split.  Leave Ground and Neutral always connected.
- The power splitter cord would be plugged into an always-on outlet.

  Relay board - https://www.amazon.com/HiLetgo-Channel-optocoupler-Support-Trigger/dp/B00LW15A4W/ (https://www.amazon.com/HiLetgo-Channel-optocoupler-Support-Trigger/dp/B00LW15A4W/)
NOTE: This relay board can trigger on high or low.  Most boards only trigger on low.

  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61Ynyg4Sd8L._AC_SL1100_.jpg)

  Power splitter cord - https://www.amazon.com/Cablelera-Power-Extension-Splitter-ZWACPQAG-14/dp/B00FRODUR4/?th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/Cablelera-Power-Extension-Splitter-ZWACPQAG-14/dp/B00FRODUR4/?th=1)

  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51sQbNtoVXL._AC_SL1000_.jpg)

----------------------

Mike's way is a lot easier and less expensive.   :cheers:

Thanks.  I was searching for info on relays but not sure what I'm looking at.  The IOT Power Relay I linked up above is made for the pi.  You plug a USB cable into the pi and then strip the other end to go into the relay.  When the pi comes on, the signal gets sent to the relay to power everything else.  Seems simple but they are sold out everywhere and I can't seem to find a similar product.

Option 1 is already set up.  I can power on the cabinet using the switch on the rear where power comes in.  Everything will boot as expected.  Then to shut it down there is a button inside the coin door that will turn the pi off and once that happens I can hit the switch on the back of the cab to completely cut the power.  This is not ideal because of the 2-step shutdown and the main reason of the switch being up against the wall.

Option 2 deserves some additional consideration.  I have the time since I'm no longer on a deadline with these but I'm really effing annoyed and want to be done.  But if I can figure it out and learn something towards the next project I'd be happy.  If these cabs were mine I'd just live with it but I really need to make things as easy as possible for the intended users.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on February 08, 2022, 09:23:18 pm
Relays are everywhere. You don't need to spend $30 on one either.

I bought a 5-pack of 5v relays for about $3.50 last year, so less than $1 each. The only drawback was most of the writing was in Chinese. Fortunately my multimeter serves as an effective language translation tool.

Find an old USB 2.0 cable and cut the other end off. Find the red (5v) and black (GND) wires. You won't need the green/white wires.

You only need the more common low-active relay, which is what I used (high is fine too, but instructions slightly different). On one end there will be 3 terminals for Vcc (5v), GND and IN.  Vcc and GND are self-explanatory. For IN, just jumper it to the GND terminal with a short piece of wire.

First, the relay must be getting some power (a few milliamps) to become active. So turn on the Pi. Then, because GND is connected to IN and it is low-active, this will trigger the relay. Because my relays have Dupont pins on the input terminals, I was able to recycle an old 3-pin header from some old electronics bits. I soldered that to the 5v and GND from the molex, then jumpered the GND to IN.

At the other end are your three typical NO - COM - NC terminals. You connect your AC active wires to the COM and NO terminals. When the relay activates it will close the NO (normally open) and open the NC (normally closed), shunting your power through.

I've added a few shots of how I did mine. The 5v for switching is from a PC connected via Molex, should work the same from USB unless your Pi provides standby power.

I took the shots of the relay wiring a year ago, been working well since, all hidden away behind a panel. I apologise for photobombing your thread  :embarassed:

I just added a shot of the panel/switch at front, for context only, you don't need it. It is the original mains power switch for the cab, so I left it in. It is actually unnecessary now because I added a PC-style power plug port at the back which includes a switch, fuse and LED. Also added a line filter.  Anyway, none of it triggers the relay or is otherwise important, it is only for context.

Hopefully it all passes the Scott test ;)

EDIT: Mostly I power up/down the cab with a discreet momentary switch at back/top/left of the cab (reach up/behind with left hand). This powers up the PC, which then powers up everything else via the relay. Very noob-friendly. The fused mains power switches I mentioned mostly just stay on, though I sometimes turn off the one at the back if not using for a long time.

Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: leapinlew on February 08, 2022, 10:54:09 pm
My Pi on my Gorf imploded after a shutdown. I used the spare card method, and re-imaged the old card. I've probably powered on/off that machine 50 times or so. I still power on/off the cabinet with a light switch.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: PL1 on February 08, 2022, 11:05:07 pm
The 5v for switching is from a PC connected via Molex, should work the same from USB unless your Pi provides standby power.
This unknown is part of why I suggested the active high relay.

It's easy enough to use a hacked USB cable like you recommend to test for USB standby power.

If it doesn't have it, your approach of an active low relay with a hacked USB cable for operating power + ground jumpered to the trigger would be great.

If it does have it, you can still use a hacked USB cable for the relay's operating power, but an active high relay seems to be the better idea with the trigger coming from either GPIO 5v (pin 2 or 4), GPIO 3.3v (pin 1 or 17), or another GPIO pin that is logic high when the system is on and logic low during standby.
- Test if pins 2, 4, 1, and 17 have power during standby.  They probably do, which eliminates using one of them as the trigger.

Hopefully it all passes the Scott test ;)
It passes the far more important "Electronics 101" test.   :cheers:

The big question is whether it passes the Javery test.   ;)


Scott
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: Zebidee on February 09, 2022, 12:41:06 am
The 5v for switching is from a PC connected via Molex, should work the same from USB unless your Pi provides standby power.
This unknown is part of why I suggested the active high relay.

It's easy enough to use a hacked USB cable like you recommend to test for USB standby power.

If it doesn't have it, your approach of an active low relay with a hacked USB cable for operating power + ground jumpered to the trigger would be great.

We'll see I guess. The USB standby power thing might not even be a concern.

I don't know Pis nor how to turn a Pi's USB standby power on/off. For a PC you can usually control it via the BIOS, pretty easy. I imagine a Pi has similar or at least a config setting.

With a low-active design you just apply 5v power to let the relay work. It is simple and modular. If the PC in my cab dies, just replace with any old or new PC, plug in the molex, and it will all work the same as before.

What worries me is that relying upon a GPIO logic pin setting being HIGH makes the design less modular. It is a higher level of software control, setup and wiring. If the Pi dies you can't just replace the Pi with another Pi, it has to be setup the same way as well. Maybe swapping cloned SD cards is the way around this? Also, if you can program a Pi via SD card to work with a high-active design, can't it be programmed to work with low-active design too? Does it matter and does anybody care?

The important thing is that there are solutions for all occasions! Relays with both high and low triggers are the best of both worlds, and probably aren't much more expensive anyway.


Hopefully it all passes the Scott test ;)
It passes the far more important "Electronics 101" test.   :cheers:

The big question is whether it passes the Javery test.   ;)


Scott

Thanks! I hope Javery's head isn't spinning ;)

I just pulled the relay panel out and snapped off a couple more pics. Those earlier photos were taken before I re-purposed a 3-pin female header from an old TV. This makes it sturdy yet easy to remove and work with stuff. Anyway here is is. The wire colours don't match traditional colours because I soldered the 5v & GND wires onto the ends of existing wires. So the header goes 5v - GND - GND. Next photo shows relay with header removed so you can see the pin order VCC - GND - IN.

Again, apologies for photobombing. I'll stop now, for a bit.

 
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on February 09, 2022, 01:11:22 am
This is all briliant of course.

If the thing is pissing you off, you have no delivery deadline and you aren't absolutely sure of what you want to do...?

Walk away from them for now.

In time the choice will illuminate itself.

Then do that.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on February 22, 2022, 09:56:48 am
I finished cabinet #2 over the weekend so both of them are 99% complete.  They look great and they play great but the amp and marquee light still do not react to the pi being powered on and off via the SmartStrip on BOTH cabinets.  So I do not think it is an issue with a malfunctioning SmartStrip.  I've used them on multiple projects though and never had an issue.

I've been researching and I think I might have figured out the problem but I have no way to test without spending some money so I'm hoping someone here might know.  I installed a "safe shutdown" script on the pi by modifying "sudo nano /boot/config.txt" and adding these two lines to the file at the end:

Code: [Select]
#shutdown button
dtoverlay=gpio-shutdown

Bridging GPIO3 and Ground (pins 5 and 6) via a momentary pushbutton shuts the pi down.  Pressing it again will turn it back on.  HOWEVER, I think this is only putting the pi to sleep and it is still drawing power, which is why the SmartStrip is not working properly.  There is something called a Mausberry Circuit (https://www.mausberrycircuits.com/collections/frontpage/products/pi-4-usb-c-shutdown-circuit) that purports to actually (and safely) turn the pi OFF - not just put it to sleep.

Before I drop $25 on this thing, does anyone know if this is true or if shutting the pi off would fix my problem?   :cheers:
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: bobbyb13 on February 22, 2022, 11:12:17 am
I think you are right about the power.

I remembered Da Old Man posting about switching off his in a jukebox project.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,165316.msg1743276.html#msg1743276

Haven't gotten to play with RPi yet but looks like you are correct about it just sleeping and not fully turning off without another circuit/device.
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on February 22, 2022, 12:11:06 pm
I think you are right about the power.

I remembered Da Old Man posting about switching off his in a jukebox project.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,165316.msg1743276.html#msg1743276

Haven't gotten to play with RPi yet but looks like you are correct about it just sleeping and not fully turning off without another circuit/device.

Thanks bobby - I'm going to ask Da Old Man if he sorted it out.  Based on his post and the description of the ATXRaspi that he linked it seems like cutting power completely is something these boards are doing that my setup is not.  I really hope it is this simple to fix.  I'm willing to spend the money at this point to stop thinking about it.  ;D
Title: Re: javeryh's Salisbury Beach Twin Tullys
Post by: javeryh on February 23, 2022, 12:11:31 pm
Well I just dropped what is hopefully the last $40 into these stupid things and bought 2 Mausberry Circuits.  I really hope they work.  Turns out the pi draws about 70mA when ďoffĒ so the SmartStrip will not know the difference.  The Mausberry Circuit is supposed to cut power completely once the button is pressed. 

This is the last thing I can think of and if this doesn't work I'll have to tell my brother-in-law that you need to flip the switch above the power receptacle on the back of the cabinet to power on and then press the power button for the pi to shut it down and then flip the switch on the back of the cabinet to power off completely.  If this is what ends up happening... they are going to eventually fry the microSD card.  At this point I'm wishing I bought a miniPC with Windows 10 for like $100 instead of messing with the pi at all.  Live and learn I guess.

Once I get the Mausberry Circuit installed and assuming it works I'll take some final pics and film a brief walkthrough and be done.   :cheers: