The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Everything Else => Topic started by: shmokes on January 18, 2005, 12:15:08 pm
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I was pissed when I found out that EA had bought up exclusive rights to the NFL (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/12/13/news_6114977.html). It was clearly done in response to the fact that Sega not only released a superior football game last year with their ESPN NFL 2k, but released it at the budget price of $20. Instead of viewing this as an opportunity to, you know, compete....make a better game, EA said, "Why make a better game when we have the money to put Visual Concepts (Sega's sports development house) out of business?"
So they bought up exclusive rights to the NFL license as well as the NFL Player's license, so no other company can use NFL logos, teams, player's likenesses, etc. This deal is valued at up to $1 Billion dollars. As if that wasn't bad enough, they now just announced a fifteen year exclusive deal with ESPN (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/01/17/news_6116473.html). Hmm....what do you think all this will do to Sega's ESPN NFL 2k?
EA is currently attempting a hostile takeover of Ubisoft (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/12/20/news_6115370.html), the company that brings us Splinter Cell, Prince of Persia, Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six, Beyond Good and Evil, Ape Escape and Rayman. EA is a bad bad company that wants to use it's muscle and enormous bank account to eliminate competition so that it won't have to compete on, say, creativity and the quality of its products.
Don't get me wrong. EA realeases some great content. SSX, Madden, Burnout 3, The Sims. Lots of good stuff comes from EA's studios. But that's not enough for them. When EA sees other companies releasing quality products to gamers they see a threat. They see a company that is making money that should belong to EA. They see a company that needs to be eliminated else EA will be forced to raise the quality of their games to the new watermark set by a competing company (which affects their bottom line).
Don't buy their games. I know they make some good games, but there are plenty other good games out there and behavior like this should be checked by consumers. EA used nothing but an enormous bank account to take away from us the best football franchise on the market. That is a slap in the face to consumers. I want to buy Madden because it's the best football game out there, not because I have no other option.
Boycott EA. Or modify your Xbox and steal EA games if you want to play them. Don't give your money to a company that doesn't care about its customers.
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True about EA. But the same can be said for microsoft. Putting all the new EA games on bittorrents servers should help.
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I for one say this move is a good one. As EA has always had better gameplay then most games. But sucked on the presentation of it. I can't wait to see what amazing things they bring out for the PS3 and Xbox2.
Madden 2006 will be ok for the PS2. But I don't think there is enough time for them to mix the ESPN presentation in to the Madden mix.
But Madden 2007 will be the best football game ever. Can't wait....
Now if they get rid of Madden, then I think I'll Boycott EA.
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ESPN NFL 2k was the superior football game of 2004. What makes you think Madden 2007 is going to be the bee's knees when there is no longer another NFL game in town? Visual Concepts had them beat, not only in presentation, but in the gameplay dept. Visual Concepts was the number one reason that Madden's game would improve. It's this sticky thing called competition. Now there is none. Do the math.
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ESPN NFL 2k was the superior football game of 2004.
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monopolies are crap. They might be pretty crap with nice graphics and cool NFL team and player names, but they are still crap
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I really find it hard to care who makes the game.
These companies come and go all the time. Nintendo tried to do the same thing some years back, before that it was Atari.
I'll have to actually buy an EA game now just to irrate shmokes. I think I'll buy them as gifts for the neighbor's kids birthdays and such.
All Hail the capitalists!
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we are all raised to play fair and love your neigbor but when it comes to buisness.....its everyone for themselves and the guy with the bigest bankroll wins
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we are all raised to play fair and love your neigbor but when it comes to buisness.....its everyone for themselves and the guy with the bigest bankroll wins
Yep.
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Corporations are born, they grow, they thrive, and eventually they die.
Atari. Coleco, Edsel.
If EA wants to bet $1 billion dollars (I say that while holding my little finger in my teeth) then go ahead. If their product doesn't sell, they will crash and burn.
It happens all the time.
If the product isn't worth to somebody the price that is being asked, then it won't sell. That's capitalism.
If people are willing to pay more, fine. IF not, then the company folds.
You can't sell pushbuttons for Arcade Machines for $5.00 either. If EA doesn't make the cut, then they go the way of Sega.
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Boycott EA.
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Boycott EA.
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But in terms
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I've just been a EA supporter back in the C64 days and have purchased every Madden game from the beginning.
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But in terms
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I've just been a EA supporter back in the C64 days and have purchased every Madden game from the beginning.
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Just want to say one thing about EA. They seem to care who plays there's sports series of games. Because when I last checked, EA was the only publisher releasing Football, Hockey and Basketball games for the PC.
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Man Shmokes,
You can get really upset if someone disagrees with you. First you assault IQ then go for a Diatribe of righteousness. Way to rally support. I bet your Utah red state buddies really love that about you don't they? ;D
Karl Marx said the same thing as Adam Smith didn't he?
There are several axioms of life. Supply and Demand is one of them. I doubt very seriously if EA games is going to screw me.
I think you need to chill and realize that you can't possibly make a bit of difference. :-[
But go ahead, rant. :-*
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I posted this in consoles too, but it's relevant here as well. :police:
EA is doing this because when the new EA football is annoounced it probably won't be "Madden" anymore. Why pay Madden for his name, ESPN for their name, and the NFL for exclusive rights on one title? Besides, rumor has it that Madden wants to retire anyways, and that would limit his effectiveness as a spokesman.
EA knows that without Madden's name, the football fans would reevaluate their game of choice, and with ESPN taking a big bite out of Madden's sales this year, they knew that they might lose those football dollars. Madden isn't all EA has, but it's bigger than MVP Baseball, which they've had locked up for a couple years, and they far from have a stranglehold on the NBA game, since the Sega Sports/ESPN 2K series has pretty much gone 50/50 with NBA Live since it went multi-platform.
Plus c'mon. EA has got to have something against SEGA. The Genesis basicially made EA Sports, but I think EA took it somewhat personally when SEGA brought out Joe Montana Football, a very similar looking game to Madden, back in 1991/92. When SEGA released Dreamcast, and looked to EA for sports support, EA not only turned their back on SEGA, but ripped them in interviews in gaming mags, all the while hyping PS2... the rumor there is, Sony gave them early dev kits and a lower per unit cost, so it would be easier to flood the market with EA Sports games. I don't know if that's true, but SSX was easily the most polished game at PS2 launch... Now EA has basically managed to drive every other company out of the sports business, except SEGA. And lo and behold... SEGA actually carves out a foothold, while at the same time doing something EA doesn't want to EVER see... dropping prices. So what do you do if you're EA? Buy all of SEGA's licenses out from under them!!
Dirty business man.
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EA knows that without Madden's name, the football fans would reevaluate their game of choice, and with ESPN taking a big bite out of Madden's sales this year, they knew that they might lose those football dollars. Madden isn't all EA has, but it's bigger than MVP Baseball, which they've had locked up for a couple years, and they far from have a stranglehold on the NBA game, since the Sega Sports/ESPN 2K series has pretty much gone 50/50 with NBA Live since it went multi-platform.
Well in the Baseball market, Microsoft is going to be challenging EA with their purchase of the High Heat franchise.
Hockey, Sega won this one last year and the year before. I assume this will continue. As EA all but forgotten Hockey over the past couple of years.
Football....
NBA - Sega 2k5 vs NBA 2005: Too close to call
Soccer - Winning Eleven Series is much better then the FIFA series
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That is very true about John Madden.
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That is very true about John Madden.
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Trust me, Madden is way more than just a name. I manage a game store, and every year I hear people say "If there's no Madden, I'm not buying it." when I'd suggest giving the SEGA title a try. But SEGA made such a great game at such a great price last year and released it three weeks early, so ALOT of players grabbed it thinking, "Ah, what the hell, it's $20 and will tide me over until Madden comes out..." and never came back for Madden! The Madden 2005 launch was the slowest Madden launch I ever had. You know EA felt the sting, and wasn't gonna just take it.
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Trust me, Madden is way more than just a name. I manage a game store, and every year I hear people say "If there's no Madden, I'm not buying it."
Every year there's no Madden, I'm buying it.
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True about EA. But the same can be said for microsoft. Putting all the new EA games on bittorrents servers should help.
thats the ticket!! :D
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Trust me, Madden is way more than just a name. I manage a game store, and every year I hear people say "If there's no Madden, I'm not buying it." when I'd suggest giving the SEGA title a try. But SEGA made such a great game at such a great price last year and released it three weeks early, so ALOT of players grabbed it thinking, "Ah, what the hell, it's $20 and will tide me over until Madden comes out..." and never came back for Madden! The Madden 2005 launch was the slowest Madden launch I ever had. You know EA felt the sting, and wasn't gonna just take it.
NCAA is a better football game then both Madden and 2k5..
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GGKoul,
Okay...let's say that Madden has better gameplay. There. But EA's strong-arm, non-capitalistic business practices remain. I don't think the virtue in EA's actions here hinge on whether Madden runs a meaner passing game than ESPN. With that in mind I hand you the title of best gameplay for Madden 2005. You should still boycott EA.
There are several axioms of life. Supply and Demand is one of them. I doubt very seriously if EA games is going to screw me.
Wow...that's deep fredster. Excellent use of the word "axiom". But considering that EA has already screwed you by making it impossible for Visual Concepts to continue delivering NFL games you're a bit late on that one. Do you really think that Madden will be a $30 title after 2006? Do you find it strange that VC can develop a game with gameplay on par with Madden, but with HIGHER production values, yet sell it for $20? That's what competition does. If VC were the only game in town ESPN NFL 2K would have cost $49. But they had stiff competition so they lowered their price. That lower price caused demand for Madden to go down, so EA lowered their price to $29. That's the beauty of supply and demand.
Why, in god's name, would EA continue to sell their NFL game at a budget price when they control the entire supply of NFL games?
The next time you want to give me a lesson on capitalism or supply and demand go read your old micro-economics books.
The same goes for quality. They only have to make their game good enough that it will continue to sell. With VC in the picture they didn't just have to make a product that the public would like; they had to make one that the public would like MORE than the VC offering. It didn't just have to be good enough to sell, it had to be good enough to be COMPETITIVE (another one of those key words)
Why does a hardcore liberal have to explain capitalism to a hardcore conservative?
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GGKoul,
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Has Madden actually said he's going to retire and take his name and go home? Just rumor, no story to back it up?
Does anyone plan on axiom soon?
(good use too, no?)
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Has Madden actually said he's going to retire and take his name and go home?
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Boycott EA. Or modify your Xbox and steal EA games if you want to play them. Don't give your money to a company that doesn't care about its customers.
You don't have to ask me twice. I haven't bought any games since I got my PS2 modded. :P
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Shmokes,
It's simple. I won't buy it. No demand because the price is too high, higher than anybody is willing to pay.
Same reason I don't go to watch football games at the stadium, the price is too high.
I don't even buy new games at walmart. I wait until 2004 to buy 2002 games for $5 at the re-run stores.
Ever hear of "do without" ? If the price of the games is higher than people want to pay, they don't sell enough units, etc. People will go to the baseball games, or hockey, or maybe Mame.
It's true capitalism. In this case study, EA spends big money and if they fall apart and there are new players in a year or two. It's an adjustment driven by the free market.
Are you just upset because you have to spend another $15 dollars on a game? Do you really think that EA will actually corner some market anywhere? Did you stop to consider the NFL's view on this? Why did they do that? It's EA's gamble, and if they don't do well, they can't afford to do it next year.
If Sega gets it next year are we supposed to boycott them? Come on man.
You don't have to worry. You can afford it either way, after all Bush is in and we'll all get a nice Tax check back :-X
I don't care either way really. I never played any of these football games. I tore apart a dedicated NFL Blitz and parted it out and turned it into a 9 in 1 anyway. I had to paint over all those stickers on the side to do it >:( It had a great 25" monitor.
My son plays Jak and Dexter and Halo. NFL games bore me to tears anyway and 9 out of 10 kids I see at my house pay Mario brothers instead.
Tell you what, gage your support. Start a new poll.
1 - I care if EA is the sole NFL gamemaker
2 - I couldn't care less about EA games or the NFL
3 - I like pie
No 3 would be the No 1
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It's like I'm playing duckhunt and every time I shoot a duck another one pops up.
GGKoul, Madden was released in early August -- on the 9th, I think. The price drop took place barely a month and a half later. Are you trying to tell me that EA Drops the price of Madden by $20 every year less than two months after release? The fact is, Madden is normally a full-price game until AFTER the holidays. Anybody who isn't afflicted with severe denial can see that the Madden price drop was in direct response to Sega's aggressive pricing on ESPN NFL 2K. Of course they had to drop their price. That's what you have to do when a competitor releases an equal, possibly even superior product for half the cost of your product.
Gimme a break. It's okay, ya know, to at least consider the statements someone else makes as potentially true. Sometimes, in fact, things are true even when you don't want them to be. But I don't even get this one. I mean, there's nothing even inherently disgraceful about lowering your price in response to the price of a competitor's product. It's actually kinda normal.
But seriously....don't boycott EA. You don't have to. You should, but it's not like consumers can make a difference anyway (just ask fredster).
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You can't tell me Madden 2000 was better than NFL 2K. In fact, I wouldn't even say that about 2001/2K1. I'd say the first time since maybe 98 Madden fielded a killer game was 2002, and they've just recycled the engine ever since.
When SEGA retooled in 2004 and became ESPN, they had a better game than EA, but gamers buy Madden because it's Madden... it's tradition. So SEGA dropped their price, and then EA noticed.
It's not about better with EA. It's about cheaper. EA knows that if SEGA was allowed to bring out a equal product for haf the price again next year that they would have had to follow suit and drop to match... just like what happened this year. So they THREW cash at the NFL for this exclusive... much more than SEGA coud have afforded. Then to top it off, they snaked the ESPN license. Nice.
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Word, shmokes.
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Fredster....seriously. Don't even talk. You're not allowed to post until you actually have at least a slight idea of what you are talking about. First capitalism, now this.
EA has exclusive rights to all that NFL stuff for 5 years. Sega/VC can't "get it next year". EA's exclusive license to ESPN lasts for the next 15 years. Sega doesn't have more than 2 billion dollars cash on hand. EA Does. That's how they are able to do this. Do you feel like a fraud while you're writing your posts. Surely you know before-hand whether or not you are even familiar with the issues you're spouting on about.
People ARE willing to pay $50 for a football game. But Sega made it so people didn't have to. They could get an equally good football game for $20. This, in turn, brought the $50 game down to $30. THAT'S WHAT REPUBLICANS LOVE SO MUCH ABOUT CAPITALISM. Don't become a democrat to spite me Fredster. It's not worth it.
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People ARE willing to pay $50 for a football game.
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who cares as long as EA continue improving Fifa football :)
Coming from UK i dont care about their American Football/Basketball/Ice Hockey games.
what value does having the licence to a league make anyway?
If i was sega i would develop a technically superior products with fictious player/team names. Sonic football anyone?
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The japanese have a saying--the only good competition is no competition. I see this whole thing playing out in a year or two as their 1 billion dollars is gradually eaten away by diminishing returns UNLESS they release a product that is a "good game", in that case they will have cornered the market and eliminated competition--business is ugly but its been this way for a long time.
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who cares as long as EA continue improving Fifa football :)
Coming from UK i dont care about their American Football/Basketball/Ice Hockey games.
what value does having the licence to a league make anyway?
If i was sega i would develop a technically superior products with fictious player/team names. Sonic football anyone?
I think EA owns the rights to FIFA also. So Sega can't make a "Sonic Football" game.
Regardless, the Winning Eleven Series is a much better soccer game then EA's FIFA game.
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The japanese have a saying--the only good competition is no competition.
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Shmokes,
Okay, I bow to your superior intellect.
I'll check for the fall of EA due to your boycott ::)
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If the product isn't worth to somebody the price that is being asked, then it won't sell. That's capitalism.
Fredster, I'm sorry for being short (actually that's more a figure of speach than an apology), but you drive me to it.
You make comments like that, and then turn around and suggest that boycotting a product or company is useless. My point in the original post was to increase awareness of the price that is being asked to do business with EA. There are other costs of doing business besides the price of a product. Economists call them externalities -- in this case negative externalities (the common example would be polution created by a factory being a cost to the community, in addition to supply and demand for jobs and whatnot). The cost of supporting EA includes risking the loss of other quality companies you care about, not due to competition in a free market, but due to the wielding of monopolistic power. This is bad for consumers. It's bad for the companies that get squashed under EA's wallet and it's bad for the quality of EA's games.
So many of you say, "I don't see what the big deal is as long as EA continues to release good products." If you believe in capitalism than you believe that EA CANNOT be as effective at game development without competition. Of course EA is not going to set the price of their games higher than the laws of supply and demand will allow, but where do y'all get the idea that the supply or demand curve are static for any given product?
There are an infinite number of demand curves for any given product -- one curve for any given price. When Sega released ESPN NFL 2K for $20, the demand for Madden at the pricepoint of $50 went down to a degree that it became more profitable to sell the game at the $30 pricepoint. Any company finds the optimum pricepoint for their product. EA could make more money per unit by selling Madden for $100 a copy, but it would sell fewer copies. They could sell WAY more copies if they lowered the price to $5 per copy, but they would make so little on each sale that the overall profit would be lower. A company finds the pricepoint that will maximize profits. It was $50 for Madden until Sega released a viable alternative at a much lower price point. Now fewer people were willing to spend $50 for Madden so the demand dropped at that pricepoint and the beancounters determined that the new pricepoint for maximizing profits was $30.
This is all talking about the benefits of competition on price alone. Obviously similar rules apply to product quality.
It's your preaching to me about supply and demand and capitalism (with a subtext of "you're just a liberal so you hate business"), and then turning around a taking a whiz on supply and demand and capitalism that I find obnoxious. Don't get high and mighty about the virtues of conservative economics if you think all there is to supply and demand is, "the market supplies as much as the public demands." It's slightly more nuanced than that. The world that you advocate, where a consumer has no choices because the only option is controlled by one entity, a monopoly or a government, is decidedly NOT capitalism.
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All that and absolutely NO commentary on my use of the word axiom? That's some top-drawer stuff there...well, actually, it's more "third drawer under the handkerchiefs but on top of the "research literature" stored there in case of emergency".
I for one will, indeed boycott EA, although more because I no longer play them.....to be quite honest, I've simply read this thread to see where I could interject some comedy. I had NO idea people took gaming this seriously, and I may re-read this in order to suss out where I stand. But I AM indirectly supporting your stance, shmokes. You were right on the ramen, perhaps there's life in the boycott.
I can SERIOUSLY feel the drugs starting to take effect (I'm ill) and it'll be a few days before I reply soon enugh.
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Ramen is an inferior good. That means it almost creates a paradox in that the less money you have, the more of it you buy and the more disposable income you have, the less of it you buy.
:P
Sorry about not commenting on axiom. I was totally going to, but then read a few more posts and got all caught up in my soap box. Your use of axiom was as funny as Fred's, admittedly for totally different reasons.
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Sega could sell there game at a lower price point because they did not spend the same amount of money developing and marketing the game as EA did.
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All that and absolutely NO commentary on my use of the word axiom?
Axiom makes some of the best speakers in the world. I'm buying some next Christmas.
http://www.axiomaudio.com/
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All taken from Gamerankings.com.
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Shmokes,
I am so glad we have you to shine with your well learned opinions.
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All taken from Gamerankings.com.
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Shmokes,
I am so glad we have you to shine with your well learned opinions.
Thanks. I'm here to help.
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Also, since Sega know longer has to pay for a NFL/NFLPA license, they can sell the game for a even lower price or spend that extra money making their other products better. So even though they won't compete head-to-head with madden anymore. Sega can still take money out of EA's pocket by improving their Hockey, Basketball series and/or create a Baseball series.
To me this is meaningless. They were doing a great job. Imagine that we are both greeters at the local Wal-Mart and due to economic constraints they need to lay one of us off. You have proven to be a much more valuable employee, but I just got a big inheritence and really want this job, so I pay the manager $1,000 and buy him a lapdance at the local bar so he gives me the job instead. Your argument is that basically, "that's life, and hey, now you will have more time and resources to improve other areas of your life so who cares if you got screwed in this one area?" It doesn't wash.
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GGKoul,
You have to bend to Shmoke's arguements. After all, he's right! Just ask him.
He works for the government, so he must be right!
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I am always right, but it's not because I work for the govenrment. It's because I'm god.
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There is a ESPN NFL 2K5 commercial.
Plus it was promoted HEAVILY on ESPN last year. Not just a press release.
EA didn't even pony up for a in store Madden standee this year. They did do a nice collectors edition, which sold semi-well for $59.99.
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Shmokes, is that Wal-Mart you spoke of doing any hiring? I'm sure I could quickly become hiring manager for the greeters.....soooooooooo 8)
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Hook me up and there could be a lap dance in your future....
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I just got a big inheritence and really want this job, so I pay the manager $1,000 and buy him a lapdance at the local bar so he gives me the job instead.
If I just got an inheritance, why would I want to continue to work at Walmart?
Also, if the REAL WORLD, regardless if you bought off the manager, this person is still a poor employee and they will be fired in the end.
And if you want to talk about "boycotting" a company, Walmart should be number 1 on your list of companies to boycott.
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If I just got an inheritence, why would I want to continue to work at Walmart?
Because you're a human being with a need for some "purpose" in life. While Wal-Mart is kinda setting your sights low, it's an easier goal to hit. If I were to hit the lottery, I'd still keep doing my job. Not full time, mind you, but still, I'd keep working.
Also, if the REAL WORLD, regardless if you bought off the manager, the person is still a poor employee and they will be fired in the end.
Shmokes never said how large the inheritance was ;D
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There is a ESPN NFL 2K5 commercial.
Plus it was promoted HEAVILY on ESPN last year. Not just a press release.
EA didn't even pony up for a in store Madden standee this year. They did do a nice collectors edition, which sold semi-well for $59.99.
In comparison to Madden, ESPN's marketing budget was minimal.
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If I just got an inheritence, why would I want to continue to work at Walmart?
Because you're a human being with a need for some "purpose" in life.
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Sorry....it was just the oregano talking.
I've started to cut it with a little basil so it's harder to detect. Oh, and it tastes better in spaghetti ;D
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And if you want to talk about "boycotting" a company, Walmart should be number 1 on your list of companies to boycott.
;D
OMG.....ROFLMAO
GGKoul.....in case you didn't know, you and I don't really work at Wal-Mart. I made that bit up. God, that's the highlight of my week. Thank you. LOL.
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ESPN NFL 2k was the superior football game of 2004.
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Lies..
Madden 2005, you can STILL throw the ball, while running, on your off foot, and nail your receiver.. which is gay..
Huh??? Reggie McNeal (http://www.aggieathletics.com/bios.php?SID=MFB&PID=111&YOS=2004) can do that! It's possible! :D
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And if you want to talk about "boycotting" a company, Walmart should be number 1 on your list of companies to boycott.
;D
OMG.....ROFLMAO
GGKoul.....in case you didn't know, you and I don't really work at Wal-Mart.
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ESPN NFL 2k was the superior football game of 2004.
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Where did I imply that you worked at Walmart? For me to imply that, I would have to assume you "HAVE" a job. :laugh:
Walmart is an excellent candidate for a boycott. You should begin by not buying EA games there.
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Lies..
Madden 2005, you can STILL throw the ball, while running, on your off foot, and nail your receiver.. which is gay..
I suggest playing with a different quarterback than Brett Favre, then. Don't hate the player, hate the game. I like the guy too, but you can't base your whole assessment of a game on how accurately they get Favre's persona.....what you just described happens at every Packers practice and twice on Sunday!
;D ;D ;D
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Where did I imply that you worked at Walmart?
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If I just got an inheritance, why would I want to continue to work at Walmart?
Also, if the REAL WORLD, regardless if you bought off the manager, this person is still a poor employee and they will be fired in the end.
And if you want to talk about "boycotting" a company, Walmart should be number 1 on your list of companies to boycott. As they have done more to harm the North American Society then EA buying NFL & ESPN rights will ever do.
Well...it just seemed that the topic was straying dangerously. For example, you're asking me questions like, "If I just got an inheritence, why would I want to continue working at Wal-Mart?" To which the answer is, "I don't know, maybe I'm casing the place for a major heist."
Also, in the REAL WORLD, when I'm eventually fired for being a bad employee it does nothing to erase the injustice YOU suffered when you were fired to begin with. And, HOPEFULLY, you and your family and friends and people who care about you ARE boycotting Wal-Mart, or at least that particular Wal-Mart for delivering said injustice (and the child slave-labor and small town economic destruction and crappy treatment of employees, of course).
And finally, I don't see how Wal-Mart's boycottability should inform your decision as to whether to boycott EA Games. I think Wal-Mart is a store that one should avoid shopping at. Even if you don't care about all the evil things about Wal-Mart, just consider the fact that the moment you walk through the doors you're suddenly in a bad mood and in a hurry and coming down with a slight throbbing headache just behind your eye. It's like they've developed some kind of "bad mood field" which they installed at the entrances. But I digress....
Boycott Wal-Mart. That's great. But it's not really the subject of this thread. If it helps I could restate my story and have us work as street sweepers or maybe we could work in a community health clinic. I just thought that the greeter thing was funny. I honestly did not intend for "Wal-mart is bad too" to be the main point you took from that story.
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Shmokes, I'll give 2.5/10 in trying to pull a Floyd.
1st)
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EA's business practices offend me similarly to the way Microsoft's do. I may not exercise a full fledged boycott, but today I was trying to choose between Quicken and Microsoft Money. The features seemed the same, so I bought Quicken because I don't like Microsoft. Note - I'm an MCSE.
Both the way they treat their employees and the monopolistic actions they've taken of late have made it extremely unlikely that I'll be buying an EA product anytime soon. I took economics and other business classes in high school and college, and know that monopolies are one of the possibilities of a capitalistic system that are generally a negative and bad for competition. If I do buy an EA product (if they ever come out with a good NFS Porsche Unleashed sequel!) then I'll make a point of buying a used copy.
I'm with Shmokes on this one. Even if his avatar gives me the willies.
--- saint
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Even if his avatar gives me the willies.
You just HAD to go and show off his new title, didn't ya? ;)
How come nobody counted my vote? I wasn't even in Ohio....wait....I'm in WI.....different thread too....carry on :police:
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i'll be sure to buy extra copies of ea games for gifts to make up for all you anti-capitalists out there.
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Anti-capitalists - you mean those of us consumers voting with our dollars, in this case against a particular company -- the practice that is at the heart of capitalism?
http://www.investorwords.com/713/capitalism.html
capitalism
Economic system characterized by the following: private property ownership exists; individuals and companies are allowed to compete for their own economic gain; and free market forces determine the prices of goods and services. Such a system is based on the premise of separating the state and business activities. Capitalists believe that markets are efficient and should thus function without interference, and the role of the state is to regulate and protect.
Don't agree that EA is an evil empire? Fine. But calling consumers who choose to boycott EA anti-capitalists? Sorry, that's just silly
--- saint
i'll be sure to buy extra copies of ea games for gifts to make up for all you anti-capitalists out there.
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Yep, Capitalism.
Good things and bad things in every system.
Yep.
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Don't agree that EA is an evil empire? Fine. But calling consumers who choose to boycott EA anti-capitalists? Sorry, that's just silly
--- saint
Plus, even Ronald Reagan characterized EA as an evil empire.
...I think ;)
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I'll boycott EA until Marvel vs EA comes out on the XBOX2 or whatever the"secret Marvel title" is comes out.
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http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/01/24/news_6117016.html
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Boy am I glad I don't like sports games!! :laugh:
mrC
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But if it's any consolation to you shmokes, the activist in me just loves a boycott! I'm in!
mrC
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and to add insult to injury they just pushed back battelfield:2 to
Q1 2006.. :o
---daisies---!!
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and to add insult to injury they just pushed back battelfield:2 to
Q1 2006..
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http://money.cnn.com/2005/01/17/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/
According to this article Madden is under contract for the 2005-2006 season. I'll bet he's gone after that.
I, for one, will not be boycotting EA. If they make a quality game that I like, I'll buy it. If they make an inferior game, I won't. Simple as that...
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http://money.cnn.com/2005/01/17/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/
According to this article Madden is under contract for the 2005-2006 season.
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http://money.cnn.com/2005/01/17/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/
According to this article Madden is under contract for the 2005-2006 season. I'll bet he's gone after that.
I, for one, will not be boycotting EA. If they make a quality game that I like, I'll buy it. If they make an inferior game, I won't. Simple as that...
You say, "Simple as that...," but that's not really true. For example, if EA had your family murdered you would probably not buy EA games no matter how good they are.
My point is that it is possible for EA to do something that is not directly related to the quality of their games that still would inform and be relevant to your decision to buy their games (though smashing competition with a wallet rather than in the marketplace presumably does affect product quality). Perhaps killing Visual Concepts does not appear on the list of things you care about, and that's fine, though short sighted, IMO. But brushing it off with a, "I'll do business with somebody as long as they provide a product I want regardless of any other considerations..," is ridiculous. Would that include buying merchandise from someone who obtained it by stealing it from a person they murdered? Would it include eating at a restaurant that you knew had a policy of spitting in black people's food, simply because the food was excellent?
It's OKAY to allow ethics to play a role in guiding your purchasing decisions, in addition to desire.
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It's OKAY to allow ethics to play a role in guiding your purchasing decisions, in addition to desire.
OMG! HTE LIBURUULLL!!!111 8)
mrC
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http://money.cnn.com/2005/01/17/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/
According to this article Madden is under contract for the 2005-2006 season. I'll bet he's gone after that.
I, for one, will not be boycotting EA. If they make a quality game that I like, I'll buy it. If they make an inferior game, I won't. Simple as that...
You say, "Simple as that...," but that's not really true. For example, if EA had your family murdered you would probably not buy EA games no matter how good they are.
My point is that it is possible for EA to do something that is not directly related to the quality of their games that still would inform and be relevant to your decision to buy their games (though smashing competition with a wallet rather than in the marketplace presumably does affect product quality). Perhaps killing Visual Concepts does not appear on the list of things you care about, and that's fine, though short sighted, IMO. But brushing it off with a, "I'll do business with somebody as long as they provide a product I want regardless of any other considerations..," is ridiculous. Would that include buying merchandise from someone who obtained it by stealing it from a person they murdered? Would it include eating at a restaurant that you knew had a policy of spitting in black people's food, simply because the food was excellent?
It's OKAY to allow ethics to play a role in guiding your purchasing decisions, in addition to desire.
You've got to be kidding me with your ridiculous analogies!! EA didn't murder my family or murder anyone. I think your are going a little overboard here, ok, A LOT overboard. This is business. EA, who is bigger and has more money, won out over SEGA... Life isn't a movie where the little guy always wins. Who did EA kill? Who did EA steal from?? Who did EA spit on??? EA made a business deal with the NFL and ESPN, period.
Basically, you're saying that if I own a compnay and have the means to jump ahead of or significantly reduce the competition, thus strengthening my company, I shouldn't do it because it isn't very nice.
If you do own a business I suspect it won't be around for long.
Visual Concepts isn't dead either, they were bought by Take-Two and will continue to develop games.
http://www.gaming-age.com/news/2005/1/25-44
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Here's another intersting read:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/01/20/news_6116704.html
Here's an excerpt from the above article:
Wedbush Morgan Securities analyst Michael Pachter reportedly said, "There's nothing illegal or unethical about what's EA's doing; it's just good business for them. They're making sure they have exclusive access to the best middleware out there and the best sports license out there...Microsoft did the same kind of things to improve its position." But Pachter sees the deal as one that demonstrates something else many are saying about the cash-rich publisher. "It's downright predatory," Pachter said, reflecting on the deal.
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It sounds as if you took those analogies and invested far more of yourself into them than is normal.
He was using the ridiculousness of the analogy to point out the ridiculousness of your stance and its "and that's THAT!" tone. I thought it was a rather simple analogy, and one that helped illustrate his point as it related to your stance. It wasn't a "dude, what if they did THIS to you...huh, huh, huh?" analogy, rather one to demonstrate that your stance seemed to be absolute, when it is anything but.
And to think, I haven't played with consoles or purchased one of their games since 2002, and am part of this boycott by proxy ;D
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For example, if EA had your family murdered you would probably not buy EA games no matter how good they are.
Are you just talking about sports games, or all games?
Because I really want to buy Battlefield 2.
...sorry mom.
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It sounds as if you took those analogies and invested far more of yourself into them than is normal.
He was using the ridiculousness of the analogy to point out the ridiculousness of your stance and its "and that's THAT!" tone. I thought it was a rather simple analogy, and one that helped illustrate his point as it related to your stance. It wasn't a "dude, what if they did THIS to you...huh, huh, huh?" analogy, rather one to demonstrate that your stance seemed to be absolute, when it is anything but.
And to think, I haven't played with consoles or purchased one of their games since 2002, and am part of this boycott by proxy ;D
Actually, the analogies are ridiculous because they don't fit here. EA didn't break any laws, or spit on anyone's food and we don't work at Wal-Mart. All EA did was make a good business deal for themselves, and as long as they still make a quality product, there is no reason for anyone to boycott them. And as far as I'm concerned my stance is absolute as far as buying games from EA is concerned. Equating buying a game from a company that made a good business deal to someone that murders my family or spits in my food, simply doesn't make sense.
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EA
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Personally, I've been boycotting EA as much as possible lately. They ruined the 007 Series, they practically destroyed Maxis... the only thing they HAVE done right so far is Command and Conquer: Generals. Even that left a little to be desired.
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ESPN NFL 2k was the superior football game of 2004. What makes you think Madden 2007 is going to be the bee's knees when there is no longer another NFL game in town? Visual Concepts had them beat, not only in presentation, but in the gameplay dept. Visual Concepts was the number one reason that Madden's game would improve. It's this sticky thing called competition. Now there is none. Do the math.
ESPN NFL was better then Madden in Overall Presentation and Graphics. But in terms of gameplay. Madden won.
Lies..
Madden 2005, you can STILL throw the ball, while running, on your off foot, and nail your receiver.. which is gay..
madden is nothing more than an arcade sim for football, while its "good" at that, espn had the overall package... Better graphics, More realistic gameplay, Less button mashing, better presentation..
Button mashing in Madden? Where? If I were to remember correctly, ESPN has poor defence issues and recievers drop the ball like crazy. More then usual?
I'll give you graphics and presentation, but Madden's game play is much better then ESPN.
And I said this before EA merged with ESPN. If they could combine the presentation and graphics of ESPN with the gameplay of Madden.. It'll be a game that no one would complain about.
Ok, you hike ball, said player to throw to is mapped to button A, you press A over and over and over.. nothing comes of it except your ball hits the receiver.. thus you mashed the buttons.. ESPN, you had 2 throw types, you COULDNT mash the button.. why? you pump faked..
Lies..
Madden 2005, you can STILL throw the ball, while running, on your off foot, and nail your receiver.. which is gay..
I suggest playing with a different quarterback than Brett Favre, then.
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Ok, you hike ball, said player to throw to is mapped to button A, you press A over and over and over.. nothing comes of it except your ball hits the receiver.. thus you mashed the buttons.. ESPN, you had 2 throw types, you COULDNT mash the button.. why? you pump faked..
Turn on Quick Pass and it's a 2 button process.