Opinions?
Ambitious. :cheers:
I have no doubt that you can pull this off, but it doesn't look like you are saving any floor space by tucking the driving right underneath. There is still part of the frame on the floor when the seat is tucked underneath.
All that being said, if you do this, it has to make the classic transformers sound when it transforms back and forth.
Zapcon 2019. Be there. I didn't really get a chance to talk to you.
Having went through the process of building a vpin. The puprose is to get it as close as possible to the real thing. I will tell you this now, your playfield section will have to be waaayyyyy deeper than that, which will kill your rotating function.
Trust me when i tell you, every inch in the playfield section is utilized with parts, and it will be super heavy, not to mention the amount of wiring that will have to feed into the backbox from the playfield.
With a VPIN i've learned its all or you're building a piece of crap. Half ass full size vpins are a waste of time actually. Turning a TV putting a monitor on top and putting buttons on the side and front is not a vpin to me its a a big ass tate machine laying on its back.
So think long and hard about combining the two, you need easy access to the backglass and the table at all times as stated they are high maint and constantly evolving. So IMHO i would go either or, or seperate the two.
The hobby has moved on from vpins.I'm pretty sure the world moved on from arcade games. :dunno
... I will tell you this now, your playfield section will have to be waaayyyyy deeper than that, which will kill your rotating function. Trust me when i tell you, every inch in the playfield section is utilized with parts, and it will be super heavy, not to mention the amount of wiring that will have to feed into the backbox from the playfield.
The hobby has moved on from vpins.
I'm pretty sure the world moved on from arcade games. :dunno
If I were concerned by trends, I'd add some monitors for watching myself stream on Twitch. But I'm not.
The hobby has moved on from vpins.I'm pretty sure the world moved on from arcade games. :dunno
If I were concerned by trends, I'd add some monitors for watching myself stream on Twitch. But I'm not.
So, Gingerballs (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,150902.msg1576639.html#msg1576639) made me realize I need to build a vpin. Thanks, Malenko.
I don't have a horse in this race - I do admire the effort on the drawings (Sketchup?)
Good luck!
(I've also been bouncing names around. I vetoed "Cockpit & pinBalls". Current lead candidate is perhaps "Shapeshifter".)
As long as you don't steal my 'FLiP' name we're cool :cheers:
You have to work balls into the name somehow.
So before I critique--I love vpin and all things modular--so I'm not biased (as some) right out of the gate. That said, I wonder about a few things. With square tube legs, how are they going to be bolted to a front section that's only 1 3/8" thick held together to the backbox by a relatively thin shaft that the monitor is rotating on. I somehow see this thing buckling right at that connection point. There's also the playability of standing there and having some pinball dude shaking it (cause thats what they do) trying to get some english on the ball. Again, it just doesn't seem strong enough since you have used the traditional strength of a pinball (the large deep box) into a very shallow rotating one.
From an aesthetic standpoint I think square tubes are a step backwards--if its going to be a "pinball" machine--which is what it will supposed to be 90%-95% of the time, why not use real legs?
Thats funny what you said about the black bits on the ground--I did think they were shadows! So that helps for sure. On the back left rather than simply making a 90 degree connection between your tubes--could you put in some angles in there to help prevent front to back racking? Taking it even further--could the the whole back left be a solid piece versus tubing? you'd get more rigidity I would think than a bar with a 2" connection point.
The large and heavy backbox will likely want to sway (in pin position that is) I used a 26" tv and a 19" display inside a traditional pinhead for mine and its as heavy as a mofo..And the fact that the 19" extends down into the pinbody does limit the connection surface. The pinball cabinet I used (south park) had very nice metal brackets that realy stiffen the works. Maybe something on the back left for yours as well?
https://www.google.com/search?q=southpark+pinball&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj12c-9mLrcAhXo7YMKHYKhAdYQ_AUICigB&biw=1600&bih=767#imgrc=joVUeSdYbfCRVM: (https://www.google.com/search?q=southpark+pinball&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj12c-9mLrcAhXo7YMKHYKhAdYQ_AUICigB&biw=1600&bih=767#imgrc=joVUeSdYbfCRVM:)
don't know if that helps but it sounds like you aren't just throwing sh$t at a wall to see what sticks! Keep on keeping on!
Shapeshifter
I have become obsessed with Pinball this year. The real stuff is now near and dear to my heart. With that said, good luck and try not to sell the farm for mediocre pinball. I am excited about the racing setup, that should be pretty sweet!
Watching with interest at what's going on here. We need more builders like you mister.
There is no doubt Laythe has some skill
There is no doubt Laythe has some skill
Just watch him play Hard Drivin’, the guy is a master!
There is no doubt Laythe has some skill
Just watch him play Hard Drivin’, the guy is a master!
Yeah, I wish we could find him a dedicated one somehow.
Nice progress.
You should take a pic of the inside of a regular pin through the coin door opening. Then mount it in yours.
Holy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, man! Do you not own a router? Some of the best money I ever spent in this hobby was buying my first router.
Unrelated to building a combination pincade/racing chair, please do yourself a favour and try to experience a racing game with a good VR helmet.
My racing rig is a Playseat SV and an old PS3 GT racing wheel. Playing Project Cars 2 and Dirt:Rally in VR completely changed my appreciation of racing games.
It is so immersive that I simply can't play racing games like a flatlander anymore.
Driving the Infineon Raceway in PC2 was so similar to the real deal that I started having flashbacks to my time on the real track.
On the plus side, it would also remove the need for your screen to rotate down for play.
How are you making those detailed cuts if you are not a router guy? :dunno Impressive.
For this back cabinet I'm currently working on, my dad convinced me to let him try running a sheet of plywood through a big waterjet machine with my pattern. It works; ends up a little damp, but not terribly so, and there's some minor delamination around some edges that you have to reglue and clamp back together - but the cut quality is
OK this is bananas. Love the creativity - can't wait to see where this goes.
This might be my next project now. I thought I would do a dedicated driving machine , but the pinball hmmmm. It is looking great !
!!
I'm enjoying watching this come together. When you design in CAD or sketch up or similar you can explore complex solutions to design challenges before ever cutting any wood. Heh, fabricating those parts you designed in 5 minutes is another matter! I wouldn’t approach a project any other way though.
I gotta admit it's kind of funny that Malenko has built an entire vpin in the time I've been working on this... and I'm maybe 1/3 done. :lol
You won't disappoint my friend :).
This is a great project to watch and I'm glad you're being so detailed with the build.
Are you planning to add solenoids and the like inside the pinbody? It honestly makes all the difference in the world AND you should have a lot more space inside than I did.
Someone should come to ZapCon and wow us with his Hard Driving skills again!That was so awesome to witness. I was stuck watching Laythe for quite a while, in awe...
Someone should come to ZapCon and wow us with his Hard Driving skills again!That was so awesome to witness. I was stuck watching Laythe for quite a while, in awe...
This build is entertaining, a lot of innovation here.
I’m very curious to see how you handle the motor and rotating function. I would have expected to see holes for that in both sides before painting, so I’m looking forward to seeing your solution. This build is entertaining, a lot of innovation here.
I'm more excited about this build than I am my own.Thanks. I'll try not to let ya down.
My fav build too. I like the approach to the complexity of the design, Laythe's way of making various components and the pics of his workshop with stuff everywhere! I have to be braver and take a pic of my workshop at the end of a day’s hobbying because it's always totally trashed.
Coming along nicely, Laythe! You think you'll be done before Zapcon?
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=149895.0;attach=375649;image)
I've seen simple linear actuator based mechanisms used but I question their strength (and speed) for heavy work like this...
...you do mention a linear actuator for rotation. I'll be keen to see how this pans out.
So I kept staring at it, and screwed around a bit in an image editor trying things out, and decided to paint three 3/4" wide red stripes on the hatch.
As currently imagined, the bellcrank is part of the TV monitor mount structure, which includes a big plate of 1/4" aluminum that picks up some big scope-ring style clamps onto the axle.
This is some amazing engineering. The nut cut out is genius. When I start Ginger 3.0 I'm going to hire you for a custom lock down bar. :notworthy:
Laythe, that looks fantastic! You weren't joking when you mentioned that the center carriage was going to be beefy. That thing is going to be rigid as hell. I'll bet that you could just about cut out the center portion of the axle between the clamp flanges out and still be just fine - what you've basically built is an IMSA-style adjustable racing sway bar (http://cliff.hostkansas.com/pffimages3/P8120009a.JPG), just made from aluminum instead of spring steel and without any design tendency to twist.
:applaud:
Gotta admit I'm totally lost on how or where this installs into the cab...lol.
Gotta admit I'm totally lost on how or where this installs into the cab...lol.
Any thought I had of copying this one day went out the window once I saw that metal work with the lathe. This is incredible work.
Looks great!
Any thought I had of copying this one day went out the window once I saw that metal work with the lathe. This is incredible work.
I’m still trying to wrap my head around the axel and tilt. In the picture it looks like your physically tilting the axel up at the back, but I would assume that it would be a problem on the bearing (unless you mounted them at an angle which it didn’t appear from the picture. If not tilting the axel (which I thought you weren’t because it looked like your TV Mount was supplying the tilt), then wouldn’t the right side of your monitor be tilted in towards you when in sim mode?(which wouldn’t be a big deal). Also can’t figure out why the TV tray is rotated lightly. :dizzy:
Yeah. It is great and all, but does it cook waffles?If it cooks anything, I screwed up.
The bearings are spherical in the carriers - they'll spin like a ball joint inside the block and conform up to about 20' of angle if you ask them to, in any direction.
That is some smart design work. I was wondering how you were going to angle the pinball playfield and then have a horizontal driving screen.
I'm thinking ejection seat for people who really need to be removed..
even just dumping them backward on their head will do :angel:
Very creative, I imagine the research on this project must have been a bear. Nice work
I don't mean to pile on but wow! What a cool and fascinating project. :cheers:
does that mean you play pinball from the front and then when you flip the TV vertical you gotta move over to the side of the cab for a driving game?Yes. In pinball mode, the seat, steering wheel, and pedals are stored underneath the playfield.
I'm keeping my comments to only the best of the best projects. Right now, this is it.
Bah, it does nothing but rain where I am, stuff like this keeps me checking in to BYOAC and thinking of my own projects.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=377626;image)
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=377626;image)
This is like watching one of those HBO shows where each episode feels like a cliff hanger. I wanna be able to hit the next button and get to the end.I want that too! Somebody give me spoilers - tell me how this turns out, because the suspense is killing me.
I never knew I needed a creepy looking bottle of methanol until just now.My jar of creepy looking alcohol is worse than PBJ's - his only MIGHT make ya blind. ;D
"Franzblau et al. (1995)... ...dermal study: One hand of each volunteer was placed in a beaker containing neat methanol for 0, 2, 4, 8, or 16 min. Blood and breath methanol samples were taken immediately after the exposures and at 12 additional time points during the first 8 h after exposure. Blood methanol concentrations peaked at about 45-60 min post-exposure and averaged 11.3 mg/L. Breath methanol concentrations peaked at about 15 min post-exposure and averaged 9.3 ppm. The authors stated that exposure to one hand (440 cm2, <3% of body surface area) for 16 min resulted in blood methanol concentrations similar to those observed following inhalation at 400 ppm for 8 h... The authors reported that the exposed hand was often temporarily whitened in color and appeared very dry. That effect was most marked after the longer exposures..."
Nice, I bet you can smell victory now.
I hope the oversized driver cooling fan makes it into the final build :P
In researching this project, I was surprised to learn:
There are nearly no pinball machines with T-mold.
There are nearly no arcade machines without T-mold.
This is true even when Williams was making them both out of the same factory floor at the same time.
I have no idea why this is!
Arcade machines have exposed edges, pinball machines' exposed edges are only on the head, which is where you'll find t-molding on the ones that have it (i.e. modern Sterns).
Nice work sir. Great progress. To own machine tools.....
White Vinegar also cleans up uncured epoxy very nicely if you run out of the other stuff.
Did you cover how you’re going to compensate for the angle of the screen?
Went back to page 5, my god man! :applaud:
:drool
Looking good! Going to give that coin door the refinish treatment?
Damn man, I don’t know how you are doing it but keep doing it. It’s all starting to come together, you must be pretty chuffed, I know I would be.
Wow, wow, wow!!
I had to register to say this - this project is blowing me away! I'm in the process of starting my first project (looking into a Haruman Bartop) and found this forum. After poking around for some inspiration I found the Mimic and then this and not only am I super inspired now, I'm also just in awe! I've powered through this thread and it's the most bonkers thing I've ever seen. Can't wait to see where it all goes! The vpin side of things is already cool enough, but the sheer ingenuity and work going into making this a transforming rig is astounding.
Also, I know this is a PC and classic arcade game build, but as a racing fan in general, the idea of playing Wipeout Omega Collection on this rig just makes me drool...
Keep up the great work! You'll be sharing space with me on this board again soon enough.
A 6" finish :)
very nice!
very sexy.
The gray looks superb.
Have you considered 3m gloss automotive vinyl wrap?
Paint is 4/5ths pain. ;D
I am slightly tempted to cut a hole in the wall of my house behind the machine - there's a concrete slab and a crawlspace on the other side of the wall this is going to live near, and I could stick 4' of railroad sized rails there on the backside of the wall, cantilever the whole chair off of that, make it float over the carpet and you'd never see the mechanism because it's in the next "room" over... that's a bad idea, but I am tempted anyway.
Afterburner
LightStick
LightThrottle
ExitButton=Exit Game
CoinButton=Insert Coin
StickTrigger=Fire Guns
StickThumbButton=Fire Missiles
StartButton=Start Game
All I know is it better make the transformer noise when it changes back and forth.
This is the coolest project probably ever - so many skills on display here. It's awesome. :notworthy:
QuoteThis is the coolest project probably ever - so many skills on display here. It's awesome. :notworthy:
Come on now. What about that cab made out of scrap wood and roofing nails?
Once its all done - will you screw the clamps through the plywood? I would think the plywood would compress over time and they may become loose.
The player's weight pinning the seat down is a great simple solution.
Which may still yet evolve, won't it?
I'll look forward to drinking beer and drilling farts into it if you build one.
Really cool stuff. Your dedication is admirable too - that's a lot of work for 3/4"! Will anything go inside of the space below the chair?
Farts. Lots and lots of farts.
That is some awesome engineering there.
Looking good. You are almost to the finish line.
More progress.I love what you did there with the LEDs. That was pretty smart, making your own individually controlled versions!
On the virtual pinball cabinet side, I knew I wanted flipper contactors at a minimum - getting to play with Malenko's Gingerballs in person at Zapcon (wow that sounds wrong) convinced me that detail is worth the effort. I didn't want to wire them straight to the buttons, because sometimes the buttons aren't live - I want them to fire when the flippers do, not whenever the buttons are pushed. That means more software setup.
So, I messed around for a while and I got DOF working. Now I can control various toys in sync with the tables.
There's a standard way that most people do a bar of 5 flashers on a vpin - 3 watt RGB LEDs in pinball flasher housings. The result is very bright, and that's what a lot of people want. As this build has repeatedly shown, I prefer to do things my own way. I didn't want something that aggressive - I wanted something a little more subtle and gentle, to add to the overall pinball table effect without leaving afterimages.
I found some C-channel aluminum extrusion that comes with a snap-in diffuser, 20mm wide x 10mm tall, originally intended for fitting LED strip tape into. I also found some RGB LED modules wired in a string that would actually fit inside, 17mm wide x 6mm tall. Digging around, I came up with some small chunks of additional diffuser material that came out of small LCD backlights that's only about 3mm thick, which will fit over the top of the modules under the diffuser cap strip.
I clipped off five LED modules off the end of the string. Here's the raw materials.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=382374;image)
First up, these LED modules as wired aren't individually controllable, you get one color for the whole string. So, snip the switching ground leads between each module and run my own RGB switching ground lines to each module...
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=382375;image)
Then, splice it up.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=382376;image)
Here's an early shot of testing the wire lengths and making sure the new extra wires could be routed around the sides of the modules. It's tight, but it works.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=382377;image)
I also sliced that supplemental diffuser material into strips the width of the channel, and stacked a long piece of it centered over each module.
Time to test out the wiring. Through two layers of diffuser it was still on the very bright side in my opinion, and I wasn't crazy about the white color when it's off, so I cut a chunk of 50% black window tint film and put that over it, which got the brightness right where I wanted and makes it a nice almost black when turned off.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=382378;image)
You can see what it looks like without the window tint over at the left edge.
That looks like a winner to me, so I clipped it all down to eactly the width of my backbox. I have a backglass monitor and a DMD monitor pressed close together, but they still have about an inch of deadspace between the screens. My plan is to mount this flasher bar in that gap. I drilled a wire run hole down at the bottom edge of the back, then tacked all the modules down in their carefully measured centered equidistant positions and routed the wires. Since I'm bisecting the two backbox monitors, I can mount this fairly thin (10mm) package on the face of the bezels, and sneak the wires out in the gap where the DMD panel is much narrower than the backglass panel.
I haven't mounted it up yet, but I did fake up a working mockup on the machine - here's the final effect, or, as close to how it really looks as I could manage to photograph.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=382379;image)
The flashers are still clearly three dots each, but they're kind of neat looking soft blended spheres. Bright enough to be very present in your peripheral vision while you play, it adds to the activity of the backbox nicely but without punching you right in the freaking eyeballs. It also nicely occupies the dead space gap between the screens. (The window tint film is just draped over it here, so there's a bright corner at the left bottom and a gap at the right edge that'll be fixed when I really mount this up, sorry about that.)
When it's not lit up, it blends in pretty well as just a roughly T-molding sized raised black divider between the backglass and DMD areas. It's unconventional, but, I dig it.
I'm going to play with adding an indirect flash of white LEDs for the strobes. I want to bounce it off the white wall behind the machine.
That was pretty smart
QuoteThat was pretty smart
You could apply that quote liberally to this whole build. :cheers:
Crown Vic dome light lenses fit pretty well into the space I had between fans. It maybe doesn't entirely look like a bodged-on afterthought, which it completely is.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=382712;image)
This reminds me of the fancy kimono's that are hung on the wall when visiting the in-laws in Japan :duckhunt
wow...this is amazing!
Hello Laythe,
I saw you doing some wire splicing, look into these...
Hello Laythe,
I saw you doing some wire splicing, look into these...
Oh, nice! Thanks for the tip, those look slick. I'll give them a try!
Awesome project sir...........
The primer reveals that these aren't ready for black paint yet - there will be a sanding, a skim coat of fill on top of this, then another coat of primer first.
I've tried so many hardware store paints primers/fillers etc and still had to do sanding/painting/spray painting etc pain in the arse.
Found this paint (https://www.bunnings.com.au/british-paints-4l-4-seasons-black-low-sheen-exterior-paint_p1420543) and so far I have not needed to prime/sand, just 3 coats minimum of spray paint and smooth as a babies bottom.
See example here (https://forums.launchbox-app.com/topic/42014-vewlix-cabinet/?do=findComment&comment=349411)
Here's the parts kit:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=383535;image)
because "it's in a bunch of boxes in the garage" is how projects die.
You have 10 pages of people who will badger you so it can't die... just sayin...
I spent 7 years building a 23' boat - I'd guess a few hundred hours of that was some form of sanding and for a while I could not get myself to the shop to do more..
If I just couldn't do it... I would tell myself - go out to the shop for 10 minutes and just pick up and put away.. Which I did.. it often got me sanding for at least 10-20 minutes, cleaned the shop and kept me going.
I tend to have too many projects, while some are in boxes at some point they are not being ignored as parts are still added, and work constantly, forgetting to eat and sleep sometimes...As for this project, The choice of aluminum confuses me...perhaps an attempt to make parts light, as to limit weight on the overall concept of morphing two heavy machines into one? Or the ease of workability, and machining?... But while aluminum is a good conductor it is not historically compatible with copper as far as grounding (saftey) goes without sulfating at the the connection (thermal grease slows it down)...Love the build...Carry on.
Where do you find all this metal stock (like that aluminum sheet?!)
You are a mad man and this is insane. It is so cool to see this in action - like a real life Transformer.
It’s really neat how the software also changes depending on the orientation of the monitor. Are you using Hyperspin or something else?
It looks playable - that’s dangerous!
This looks so amazing! What an amazing display of engineering! The video is super cool. That flips much quicker than I expected. Thanks for posting such detailed updates. It is very cool to see so much of the work you are putting into it. I usually can't be bothered to take a lot of pictures but I also don't do ANYTHING this involved. :) :cheers:
So sick. You are outdoing yourself, and that’s no small feat. I’m most impressed with what as far as I can tell is a dead on realization of your vision. Going back to look at your SketchUp animation it looks identical. So impressive.
As for the rotating hiccup I had the same thing on mine, and eventually sorted it out, as I know you will too. Nice update.
The idea has been floated that this thing needs to play the Transformers mechanical noise through the speakers while the motors run... that's on the to-do list.
I write my own front-ends from scratch for every machine I build.
QuoteThe idea has been floated that this thing needs to play the Transformers mechanical noise through the speakers while the motors run... that's on the to-do list.I thought you had forgotten. :applaud:
How do you figure this stuff out??? You are working on an entirely different level than the rest of us.
Congrats on bringing another concept to reality. The motion looks great!
I remember way back you were trying to automate the chair and it turned out to be a pain (and I can see why)
Seeing it in action - a Roomba style push back and roll into storage robot base would do the job..
Since I'm using your time of course.. So you didn't need rails - you need a robot..
Well done :)
I was messing with you a bit - You've done a great job getting it all to fit and keeping going.
Glad you are posting progress :)
I didn't even realise the pedals and monitor were motorised until I saw the video, absolutely bonkers!
Next up, though, is force feedback. I specifically want the flipper buttons to feel lively when the flippers move, and I have an unorthodox approach in mind for this.
I just can't get over the level of detail in this project. I am truly in awe every time you update this thread. :cheers:
I've never even messed around with virtual pinball before - where would be a good place to start? Is there one program like MAME that you can play all the tables on?
It now looks done. It isn't done, but it looks done.
Limit switch brackets: Built.
4 limit switches: Installed.
(Well, I guess it's wrong to call them "limit" switches... they're really just positional feedback switches, the actual limit switches are integral within the linear actuators themselves.)
Wiring: Routed and secured through the labyrinth of whirling guillotines for stray wires that the inside of this machine amounts to.
Software hacking:
In progress.
When this round of software is done, the whole transformation process will be faster... and fully automatic.
ShapeShifter update?
:hissy:
20+ years on this site, and this is my favorite project.
You give gingerballs too much credit.
Haha, arright. It's been "Mostly Done" for a while, and I do have fully automatic transform working. Next big update is going to be some videos of that... so I wanted to polish up the DMD and main screen animations before I shoot those final "It's Done!" videos, and that process takes a while and doesn't make for very interesting updates along the way.
Current status, everything functionally works, but the eye candy isn't all there, there's just some developer debug screens showing numeric values all over the place so I can watch what's happening. What needs to be there is cool rotating perspective grids and stuff.
I'll update in earnest soon. Couple weeks I think.
Well done :cheers:
I did a bunch but I cant find them, so I whipped one up just so I could be part of this lol