The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls

Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: leapinlew on June 29, 2008, 05:23:59 pm

Title: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: leapinlew on June 29, 2008, 05:23:59 pm
For those of you who didn't check out my Project Announcement - you can see it here:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=80178.0 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=80178.0)


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10fPGXbAjRM[/youtube]
I did not hack Mame to do this, it had already been done. I spoke with the developer who made the modifications and he provided me a DIFF file. I modified Mame with the DIFF file and removed the nag screens.

The modifications are the reason I built my cabinet. I always wanted to play these 2 games with a spinner - feels more natural to me.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: spacies on June 29, 2008, 05:39:45 pm
Holy crap, look how fast you turn!

Nice work.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Donkey_Kong on June 29, 2008, 06:26:56 pm
I was gonna ask in your other thread how that was playing gyruss. I'd like to try that sometime, but I'll have to wait until I buy another TT2.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: miles2912 on June 29, 2008, 07:24:25 pm
Bravo.  Just outstanding.  I thought that time pilot only shot in 8 directions.  Looks like there is more in your vid.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Droler on June 29, 2008, 10:29:40 pm
I hate to ask this since it's probably either common knowledge or already addressed but I missed it (I read both threads but skipped around a little) but can you tell me what one would need to do to get the spinner to work in Gyruss and Time Pilot? Oddly, I want to try that in Time Pilot 84. :dunno
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Loafmeister on June 29, 2008, 10:43:40 pm
That's pretty interesting, I wouldn't mind trying this out as long as the default can also stay there.  Would work weird with Time Pilot, but makes sense, wherever you are shooting is where you are also flying.  Did your brain have to be "retrained" with both these games?
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: ark_ader on June 29, 2008, 11:11:24 pm
Wow night and day for all those game eh?

I love spinner games.  Maybe you can advise on how you did that, so I can do the same.

Nice vid BTW.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Minwah on June 30, 2008, 04:51:57 am
Any chance of the diff file?
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Twin-X on June 30, 2008, 05:02:07 am
Yes please share the diff with us.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: RetroBorg on June 30, 2008, 07:54:57 am
Whilst I'm a bit of stickler for original controls I have to agree those games should of been made with a spinner, can you do the same for Asteroids, Asteroids Deluxe, Star Trek etc?
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: nexus6 on June 30, 2008, 08:11:10 am
awesome!!!

are these games made for a spinner in the early stage of development or makes the hack the ships rotate fast?

ps: i want a spinner-puzzle-bobble ;)
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: RayB on June 30, 2008, 12:49:31 pm
Star Trek
Star Trek is already a spinner game.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: leapinlew on June 30, 2008, 12:56:56 pm
Star Trek
Star Trek is already a spinner game.


SHH! I was going to tell him I could do it.

As a bonus, I will also make Tempest a spinner game! Attached is the diff file. Please rename it to diff.diff. I compiled it with .105 version of MAME. Have fun.

Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Minwah on June 30, 2008, 01:15:16 pm
can you do the same for Asteroids, Asteroids Deluxe

In recent versions of Mame you can map mouse inputs to digital inputs so this is already possible - not sure when this ability was added.  Doesn't help for 'odd' games like Gyruss of course.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Derrick Renaud on June 30, 2008, 02:11:23 pm
Neat idea of mapping the dial to the player position address in RAM.

I imagine this could be easily expanded to cheat in other games.  Such as mapping the dial to the player's position in Space Invaders, Galaxian, etc.  These games might up being a lot easier though when using a spinner.

BTW, yes I did add the ability to map a spinner to buttons in the MAME source.  But hacking the games as has been done in this patch, bypasses the games routine that determines how fast you rotate.  So with the current MAME code, mapping the spinner to the buttons will only allow you to move as fast as the original game (eg Asteroids) allowed.  No matter how fast you spin.

Hacking the dial into the RAM location allows you to move as fast as you want.  Cheating, but what the heck.  :)

D.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Ummon on June 30, 2008, 06:48:09 pm
So with the current MAME code, mapping the spinner to the buttons will only allow you to move as fast as the original game (eg Asteroids) allowed.  No matter how fast you spin.

Hacking the dial into the RAM location allows you to move as fast as you want.

And as we know in the case of analog controls games, where an optical control is used instead is not satisfactory. Hence, being confined to the original 'pace' when using a spinner would be hell.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: tommyinajar on July 01, 2008, 01:38:19 am
How about Track and Field with a trackball finally ??
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Twin-X on July 01, 2008, 04:33:22 am
Is hiscore saving added to this diff or do i still have to use the other diff for that?
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: TOK on July 01, 2008, 05:45:17 am
How about Track and Field with a trackball finally ??

There was an arcade version of Track and Field that used a trackball.
Not sure if its a different ROM or a toggle since I always play the button version.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Minwah on July 01, 2008, 11:13:27 am
And as we know in the case of analog controls games, where an optical control is used instead is not satisfactory. Hence, being confined to the original 'pace' when using a spinner would be hell.

Point taken...might be OK for games with quick movement. Not so good with Space Invaders.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: brock.sampson on July 01, 2008, 02:14:05 pm
I'm compiling mame 118 and adding this diff and hiscore diff.  I complied adding this diff and then the hiscore diff.  Hiscore is working but no analog controls in gyruss.  Is there a specific order you have to add the diffs in?
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Minwah on July 01, 2008, 04:28:50 pm
I'm compiling mame 118 and adding this diff and hiscore diff.  I complied adding this diff and then the hiscore diff.  Hiscore is working but no analog controls in gyruss.  Is there a specific order you have to add the diffs in?

Did you get any errors when applying the diff? leapinlew said he compiled it with v0.105...things have probably changed since then causing the diff to fail.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: FrizzleFried on July 01, 2008, 04:33:51 pm
Games that would be cool with a spinner:

Asteroids
Asteroids Deluxe
Sinistar
Time Pilot `84
...
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: brock.sampson on July 01, 2008, 04:49:35 pm
I wasn't paying real close attention I compiled this.  I compiled it again and it does produce errors.  Here is the output from the mame compiler that headkaze made.

Applying Diff Patch...
can't find file to patch at input line 4
Perhaps you used the wrong -p or --strip option?
The text leading up to this was:
--------------------------
|diff -Nrc srco/drivers/asteroid.c src/drivers/asteroid.c
|*** srco/drivers/asteroid.c   Tue Feb 28 12:39:16 2006
|--- src/drivers/asteroid.c   Fri Jun  1 22:38:06 2007
--------------------------

Looking through the src directory for mame118 that driver folder has moved inside a folder named mame.  I'll try and edit that diff file and see if I can get it working.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: leapinlew on July 01, 2008, 04:56:46 pm
The games supported are asteroid, pacman, galaxian, galaga, gyruss, and timepilot

Pac-man doesn't work so well.

Other games that need to support it:
Timepilot 84
Asteroid Deluxe
Star Castle
Puzzle Bobble
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: brock.sampson on July 01, 2008, 05:00:54 pm
I tried to replace drivers/asteroid.c with drivers/mame/asteroid.c in that diff file.  I'm still getting the can't find file to patch.  Is there something else I need to change?  Below is the original line from the diff and then the line I updated

Original
diff -Nrc srco/drivers/asteroid.c src/drivers/asteroid.c

Updated
diff -Nrc srco/drivers/mame/asteroid.c src/drivers/mame/asteroid.c
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Minwah on July 02, 2008, 06:32:06 am
You could always just patch v0.105 and use this version only for these few games...

Edit: Actually, using HeadKaze's Mame Compiled, I got stuck compiling v0.105:

Quote
Assembling src/windows/asmblit.asm...
process_begin: CreateProcess(NULL, nasmw -o obj/mame/windows/asmblit.o -f coff src/windows/asmblit.asm, ...) failed.
make (e=2): The system cannot find the file specified.
mingw32-make: *** [obj/mame/windows/asmblit.o] Error 2

To get around this, I downloaded NASM from:

http://sourceforge.net/project/downloading.php?group_id=6208&use_mirror=dfn&filename=nasm-2.03.01-win32.zip&7573627

Bung the downloaded files in your \mingw\bin folder, and rename 'nasm.exe' to nasmw.exe'.

...however I get some more errors at the end.  I had to disable the galaxian and pacman drivers for it to compile. So I only enabled drivers altered by the patch (and excluding these two):

in \src\mamedriv.c:

        DRIVER( asteroid )
   DRIVER( decocass ) - not sure what is altered
   DRIVER( galaga )
   DRIVER( gyruss )
   DRIVER( tempest ) - not sure what is altered
   DRIVER( timeplt )
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Twin-X on July 02, 2008, 01:39:08 pm
isn't there a more easy way to patch for example the latest version?
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Minwah on July 02, 2008, 01:49:57 pm
isn't there a more easy way to patch for example the latest version?

Someone would need to update the patch for the latest source code. I don't know, but this might not be straightforward since some very major things have changed since v0.105.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Ummon on July 02, 2008, 05:42:08 pm
How about Track and Field with a trackball finally ??

There was an arcade version of Track and Field that used a trackball.
Not sure if its a different ROM or a toggle since I always play the button version.


I don't get it....how would you use a trackball in TnF?


So Lew, are you getting acceptable scores now?
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Droler on July 02, 2008, 08:16:11 pm
How about Track and Field with a trackball finally ??

There was an arcade version of Track and Field that used a trackball.
Not sure if its a different ROM or a toggle since I always play the button version.


I don't get it....how would you use a trackball in TnF?


So Lew, are you getting acceptable scores now?

I can answer that having done so in my distant youth.

You wail the hell out of it in the direction you want to run. If you've ever played or seen Atari Football played, it's essentially the same thing only you just roll the heck out of the ball instead of pounding the ever lovin' out of the buttons.

VERY different in feel ,but it worked fine.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: jasonbar on July 18, 2008, 11:57:40 pm
I came across this thread a little while ago & finally got around to trying this out.

IT WORKS AND IT'S AWESOME!!!   :cheers:


Thanks, Fry!

I simply downloaded the 105 source code, applied the diff included in this thread, & compiled with Headkaze's MAME Compiler 64.  I had v114 but saw that v115 supports MAME v105, so I downloaded the new v116 of MAME Compiler 64.  I didn't have to mess with the NASM stuff, MinWah.

For reference, my settings were: Optimize for Pentium 4 -SSE3, & I had only the Disable WError (<0.118u5) box checked.


For me, the usable games are Time Pilot, Gyruss, Galaga, Asteroids, & Galaxian.  I don't see the point of using a spinner/trackball for Pac-Man, & I didn't bother with Tempest & the DECO Cassette games, which were also listed in the patch code (I just tried Bump & Jump & Highway Chase, which I could see benefitting from spinner control, but cbnj & chwy didn't seem to work with a mouse...)


Thanks!  Can't wait to drop this MAME into my cab!

-Jason
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: jasonbar on July 20, 2008, 01:03:46 am
Howdy-

Well, I got these 5 games set up.  They're awesome.  There were a few hiccups & one final detail that I can't iron out.

I'm using MaLa & I created 5 new dummy roms called spintime, spin aste, spingyru, spingalg, & spingalx.  This way, I can keep the original games & have the original & the hack next to each other in my game list & let the user select which version to play.

I have MaLa set to launch a .bat file instead of MAME, so I can incorporate multiple MAMEs in my list & Daphne games too.  See SGT's awesome thread in the MaLa forum for more info.


Hiccups: if you have this MAME executable to run the spin versions in the same folder & using the same ROMs as the MAME executable that runs the normal versions, they'll fight over the .ini file.  I ran the spinner version, set the analog control to Mouse 6 (my spinner of choice on my cab for these games...), played, then ran the non-spinner version.  When I went to re-run the spinner version of the game, the .ini file had been rewritten & the mouse had defaulted back to Mouse 1.

So, I put the new spinner MAME into another folder & made another set of ROMs there & folders for ini, config, & artwork.

Still, when I launched the files from the bat, it was using the "main" set of ROMs, not the alternate set.

I had to create 2 separate command line commands in my bat file to first change the directory to spinner MAME directory, and *then* launch the spinner MAME.

Something like this for each of the 5 games:
if "%1" == "spinaste" cd ..\mame105optspin
if "%1" == "spinaste" mame105optspin asteroid



But, there's 1 bit that I can't yet figure out: bezels.  No bezels are displaying for these games, even though they have a bezel file in the "artwork" folder in the spinner mame directory & the .ini file for spinner MAME has use_bezels 1.  I also copied all the non-zipped files in the artwork directory, thinking that those might be necessary masks or something, but no luck.

Any idea how to get my bezels back for the spinner MAME?

Also annoying is that 2 of these 5 games that run on my "normal" MAME no longer show their bezels when I launch them: Galaxian & Time Pilot.  What would cause the bezels to no longer show in MAME115?


Thanks,
-Jason
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: leapinlew on July 20, 2008, 02:08:21 am
Howdy-

Well, I got these 5 games set up.  They're awesome.  There were a few hiccups & one final detail that I can't iron out.

I'm using MaLa & I created 5 new dummy roms called spintime, spin aste, spingyru, spingalg, & spingalx.  This way, I can keep the original games & have the original & the hack next to each other in my game list & let the user select which version to play.

I have MaLa set to launch a .bat file instead of MAME, so I can incorporate multiple MAMEs in my list & Daphne games too.  See SGT's awesome thread in the MaLa forum for more info.


Hiccups: if you have this MAME executable to run the spin versions in the same folder & using the same ROMs as the MAME executable that runs the normal versions, they'll fight over the .ini file.  I ran the spinner version, set the analog control to Mouse 6 (my spinner of choice on my cab for these games...), played, then ran the non-spinner version.  When I went to re-run the spinner version of the game, the .ini file had been rewritten & the mouse had defaulted back to Mouse 1.

So, I put the new spinner MAME into another folder & made another set of ROMs there & folders for ini, config, & artwork.

Still, when I launched the files from the bat, it was using the "main" set of ROMs, not the alternate set.

I had to create 2 separate command line commands in my bat file to first change the directory to spinner MAME directory, and *then* launch the spinner MAME.

Something like this for each of the 5 games:
if "%1" == "spinaste" cd ..\mame105optspin
if "%1" == "spinaste" mame105optspin asteroid



But, there's 1 bit that I can't yet figure out: bezels.  No bezels are displaying for these games, even though they have a bezel file in the "artwork" folder in the spinner mame directory & the .ini file for spinner MAME has use_bezels 1.  I also copied all the non-zipped files in the artwork directory, thinking that those might be necessary masks or something, but no luck.

Any idea how to get my bezels back for the spinner MAME?

Also annoying is that 2 of these 5 games that run on my "normal" MAME no longer show their bezels when I launch them: Galaxian & Time Pilot.  What would cause the bezels to no longer show in MAME115?


Thanks,
-Jason

Damn dude... I don't really have an answer for you, but you sure are tinkering away! It might just be easier to build another cab with a spinner only.  ;) Thats what I did.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: jasonbar on July 20, 2008, 04:01:57 am
Damn dude... I don't really have an answer for you, but you sure are tinkering away! It might just be easier to build another cab with a spinner only.  ;) Thats what I did.

Ack, no more cabs for me!!!  It's already been 1.5 years & counting on my current end-all-be-all of cabs!

Thanks for sharing the cool hack--Gyruss & Time Pilot certainly are keen w/ a spinner.  :]

-J
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: TheBrokentoken on July 27, 2008, 11:02:50 pm
Awesome thread and thanks a lot for posting up all of this info (and the hack)!!  This just solved one nagging problem I've had w/ Gyruss for a long time... playing it with an 8-way joystick worked, but the game lost quite a bit of it's 'fluidity' and it wasn't nearly as enjoyable. 

I was just getting ready to start a thread on Gyruss and the Ultimarc U360 joystick, but I'm glad I searched first and I totally agree the spinner is the best (i.e. should have been the original) control for Gyruss...
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: erictrumpet on July 27, 2008, 11:50:23 pm
This is a real dilemma for the purist in me....................
Gyruss with a spinner is obviously the way God intended it, but, IT IS NOT "CORRECT."
So, I am torn whether or not to set it up this way on my cab.
Of course, it's my cab and I can do whatever the heck I want with it etc, but like I said I am a purist at heart and this presents a dilemma.
FYI, I have already resolved to accept playing SW/ESB with an analog flight stick. So exceptions can be made :)

Eric.

Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Loafmeister on July 28, 2008, 12:13:24 am
Why not just run both?  That way, on your "weak" days, you can play it as god intended, and on your "purist" days, you can play it as the cheap-bastard-companies-who-didn't-want-to-invest-in-a-spinner-on-every-arcade-cab intended  ;D
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Ummon on July 29, 2008, 05:58:54 pm
Why not just run both?  That way, on your "weak" days, you can play it as god intended, and on your "purist" days, you can play it as the cheap-bastard-companies-who-didn't-want-to-invest-in-a-spinner-on-every-arcade-cab intended  ;D

A weak day for me on these is not getting past stage 16 or stage 5, respectively.... although I am waiting for these to be in Misfitmame, and then I'll check 'em out.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: TheBrokentoken on July 29, 2008, 09:51:20 pm
Why not just run both?  That way, on your "weak" days, you can play it as god intended, and on your "purist" days, you can play it as the cheap-bastard-companies-who-didn't-want-to-invest-in-a-spinner-on-every-arcade-cab intended  ;D

A weak day for me on these is not getting past stage 16 or stage 5, respectively.... although I am waiting for these to be in Misfitmame, and then I'll check 'em out.

speaking of misfitMAME - what is the release schedule like on that project?  The website I found (misfitmame.mameworld.net) shows a release about every 6 months (at best).  Is that the norm for updates?
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Ummon on July 31, 2008, 11:59:47 pm


speaking of misfitMAME - what is the release schedule like on that project?  The website I found (misfitmame.mameworld.net) shows a release about every 6 months (at best).  Is that the norm for updates?

I don't think it's predictable. Robbbert at Mameworld/MESS forums handles this, and I think he's much more involved in MESS. He did manage to get the DK foundry edition in, though.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: TheBrokentoken on September 07, 2008, 10:19:35 am


speaking of misfitMAME - what is the release schedule like on that project?  The website I found (misfitmame.mameworld.net) shows a release about every 6 months (at best).  Is that the norm for updates?

I don't think it's predictable. Robbbert at Mameworld/MESS forums handles this, and I think he's much more involved in MESS. He did manage to get the DK foundry edition in, though.

Understood.  Thanks for the reply!
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: jasonbar on April 10, 2009, 01:17:57 pm
Figured out this problem, thanks to Tafoid: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=91023.msg957371#msg957371

Pre-107 MAME needs a different flavor of artwork file for the bezel to work.  I found pre-107 Asteroids, Gyruss, & Time Pilot here:
http://mirrors.xmission.com/mame/artwork/
http://www.hellspark.com/dm/mame/software/mame/artwork/?C=N;O=D

Still looking for pre-107 artwork for Galaga (and Phoenix, though that's unrelated to this discussion).

Interestingly, I already had pre-107 artwork for Galaxian & Time Pilot, but not the post-107 artwork for those 2--gotta find those 2 now...


Long story short: looking for pre-107 Galaga & Phoenix, and looking for post-107 Time Pilot (which, oddly, isn't on http://mrdo.mameworld.info/mame_artwork_ingame.html?p=13#here ... is the bezel no longer supported since 107?).

Thanks,
-Jason


But, there's 1 bit that I can't yet figure out: bezels.  No bezels are displaying for these games, even though they have a bezel file in the "artwork" folder in the spinner mame directory & the .ini file for spinner MAME has use_bezels 1.  I also copied all the non-zipped files in the artwork directory, thinking that those might be necessary masks or something, but no luck.

Any idea how to get my bezels back for the spinner MAME?

Also annoying is that 2 of these 5 games that run on my "normal" MAME no longer show their bezels when I launch them: Galaxian & Time Pilot.  What would cause the bezels to no longer show in MAME115?
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: shardian on April 10, 2009, 02:12:43 pm
Cool hack, but I prefer the original controls. Now if only I had a stick that would properly play Time Pilot and sinistar though...
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: jasonbar on April 10, 2009, 02:14:17 pm
Cool hack, but I prefer the original controls.

Agreed--that's why I have *both* the originals & the hacks on my cabinet!   :D

-Jason
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: leapinlew on April 10, 2009, 03:04:41 pm
Cool hack, but I prefer the original controls. Now if only I had a stick that would properly play Time Pilot and sinistar though...

To me, the proper controls for Time Pilot/Gyruss is a spinner. Just makes sense. The game isn't properly geared for someone using a spinner and it's much easier, but I think it's much more intuitive.

Star Castle is another game that could use a spinner.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: jasonbar on April 10, 2009, 03:33:51 pm
To me, the proper controls for Time Pilot/Gyruss is a spinner. Just makes sense. The game isn't properly geared for someone using a spinner and it's much easier, but I think it's much more intuitive.

Star Castle is another game that could use a spinner.


If you (or somebody) is going to run with this, then we could come up with a pretty big list.  Essentially anything with the left/right rotate buttons would be fun to try in spinner mode too.

Off the top of my head:
Armor...Attack!
Rip Off
Space War
Asteroids Deluxe
Gravitar
Space Duel
Eliminator
Sinistar?  You'd need a Thrust button added...

And, since Galaga & Galaxian were in the first hack, you could also add a bajillion move-left/right-across-the-bottom-and-shoot-the-stuff-coming-down-at-you games:
Space Invaders
Phoenix
Pleiades
etc etc etc

 :D

-Jason
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Ummon on April 11, 2009, 12:03:59 am
I think Sinistar would need extra hacking for that. Plus, I think Sinistar is not only 49-way, but incremental from center to finish, in which case, you'd be missin out on that part using a digital control. But, hey, maybe a Space Navigator would be perfect there?
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: redketchup on April 11, 2009, 05:14:27 pm
Hi

I'm a newbe here and I just finish to built my cab, so Is there someone can explain to me what i have exactly to do for this modification work...

thank's Gino
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: lcddream on April 12, 2009, 11:45:15 am
To the above poster

read this

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=71845.0


can someone repost the diff file? I keep getting an error when I try to download...
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: zallax on April 14, 2009, 09:36:25 pm
I am unable to download the diff either.  Please, can someone re-upload the diff file for this?
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: leapinlew on April 14, 2009, 11:28:17 pm
 :cheers:
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: lcddream on April 16, 2009, 01:41:46 pm
weirdness - i still get an error:

+0dzFMYC.TXT.part could not be saved, because the source file could not be read.

i'll try later with ie - maybe a firefox issue?
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: zallax on April 20, 2009, 09:10:29 pm
bump
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: lcddream on January 01, 2010, 08:59:36 pm
any chance this could be added to the repository?
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: taylormadelv on January 03, 2010, 03:36:09 pm
Genius! Now make an auto fire option and Gyruss will be perfect!
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Xiaou2 on January 03, 2010, 05:59:54 pm

 Taking the Skill out of the game does not make it Perfect.

 Its Perfect the way it was designed.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: leapinlew on January 06, 2010, 05:44:54 pm

 Taking the Skill out of the game does not make it Perfect.

 Its Perfect the way it was designed.


Changing the way it was designed doesn't necessarily take the skill out of it. Besides, some of us play games for fun - not for a challenge.

Why you being such a drag?
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Xiaou2 on January 06, 2010, 06:17:50 pm

 For me, a game that has little to no challenge is not very fun at all.

 (Try you hand at "Leprechaun" for more than 10min and see how fun it is)


 Im not trying to be a "Drag" .. But it ticks me off when someone says that
a game would be  "Perfect"   if you took away the 90% of the challenge.

 Gyruss has two main areas of challenge:


 1) Limited speed of craft
 
    You need to time your moves carefully, else no matter what happens you
will not be able to escape a fatal blow.   Also, since the craft moves a little
slow... you often get impatient, and try something dangerous or are reckless.

  If you can zoom around like Tempest, then its nearly impossible for the
baddies to nail you, because their shots are timed slow to your ships slow
movement speed.  Basically, its like you racing a 3 yr old.  Theres no competition,
unless you are so reckless and lazy, that you allow him to catch up and beat you.


 2) Timing of Shots

     Your craft has a limited fire rate... and so you must time your shots
well in order to survive long.   That rate can be fast, if you successively hit
targets...  however, this is a little dangerous, as they can bomb you too.

 If you add autofire, all you have to do is spin the dial.  If you are that lazy/skill-less,
and have no desire to have any deep interaction with a game.... why even play?
Just have someone else play and watch them... or go watch a movie / TV.


 When a game is kicking your butt,  its more rewarding when you get far with it.
If a game is childishly easy, and you can play forever and ever without much
difficulty at all, there is little value / joy from playing & defeating it.

Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Ginsu Victim on January 06, 2010, 10:00:38 pm
I agree with you, Xiaou2. Example: I absolutely hate Galaga with the fast shoot hack. It removes almost ALL of the challenge.

(2019 edit - I play Galaga with fast shoot more than regular now.  :lol )
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: leapinlew on January 07, 2010, 12:43:54 pm
I disagree with both of you.

People have different degrees of skill. So, your 90% might make the game playable for others. While you may think a game is too easy, I think it makes the game playable. I have fun playing it, and I can assure you that it fits well with my skill level. I'm sure you might be able to play it for hours and be bored - so this hack isn't good for you. I wouldn't even play the game without the spinner control. With Mame, we have to make decisions we were never afforded in the arcade. Do we allow pause, unlimited credits, and save states? Some people feels this ruins the arcade experience.

I love defender and I'm not very good at it. I don't mind controls that are a bit on the complicated side. I prefer time pilot and gyruss with a spinner. Thats all.

Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: lcddream on January 07, 2010, 02:07:31 pm
Agreed - so can ya upload it to the repository??   >:D
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: lcddream on January 08, 2010, 12:32:32 pm
Strike that - download works now in thread. Thanks!
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: BullionKing on January 15, 2013, 08:25:58 pm
Hi - newbie here - been lurking for a while.
Know this is an OLD POST, but Gyruss is one of my favourites.

Lots of arguments about #original# controls from purists.

In my youth (1980's) the version of Gyruss in our Arcade only had the DIAL - and it worked a dream !
I cannot get on with it any other way.

This was back in the UK, before moving to Canada. Perhaps the spec's were different ?

Was looking for a cabinet here on ebay - but they all have the joystick - so thats how I ended up on this site - will have to build myself one !
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: leapinlew on January 16, 2013, 09:06:39 am
Got any pics? I've never heard of an arcade version using it.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: opt2not on January 16, 2013, 10:21:24 am
Yeah I call shenanigans on this. Physically, the hardware does not support analog control, unless they installed some digital --> analog conversion PLUS have the ROMS re-written on the board...
But if you insist that's what you remember, it was most likely a bootleg.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: dgame on January 16, 2013, 11:05:48 am
 it was most likely Tempest  :dunno
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: leapinlew on January 16, 2013, 01:29:45 pm
Yeah I call shenanigans on this. Physically, the hardware does not support analog control, unless they installed some digital --> analog conversion PLUS have the ROMS re-written on the board...
But if you insist that's what you remember, it was most likely a bootleg.

Did the mame devs ever support trackballs in track-n-field? At some point, there was a conversion from buttons to a trackball and it was a much better experience in my opinion. It's questionable on where the trackballs even came from or how they worked.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: opt2not on January 16, 2013, 02:06:49 pm
Yeah I think later versions of T&F were converted to trackball, but I've never heard of Gyruss going down this route.  Been googling all morning about it, and haven't found anything.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: leapinlew on January 16, 2013, 05:02:36 pm
Yeah I think later versions of T&F were converted to trackball, but I've never heard of Gyruss going down this route.  Been googling all morning about it, and haven't found anything.

I want your job. I'm betting you see a lot of posts in Google of me saying Gyruss should've been made with a spinner in mind? heh.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: opt2not on January 16, 2013, 05:11:47 pm
Most people want my job. ;)
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Xiaou2 on January 17, 2013, 12:04:29 am
And as we know in the case of analog controls games, where an optical control is used instead is not satisfactory. Hence, being confined to the original 'pace' when using a spinner would be hell.

Point taken...might be OK for games with quick movement. Not so good with Space Invaders.

 I think thats the point isnt it?   Space Invaders is a slow game...  But, so is  Gyruss, and Time Pilot.

 Nothing moves that fast in any of those games.   In fact, thats the point of Space Invaders.  Its so painfully slow, that the actual challenge, is not to lose patience and get reckless with too many close-call moments.  Gyruss & TP are the same type of game.  A game more of patience -vs- risky actions... that you cant undo, due to your lower speed limitations.

 Tempest however, while seemingly not that fast, requires non-stop firing to clear the line-walls, just to be able
to hit the enemy.  And because of that, you need to be able to move very fast.  Not only that, but the enemies dont fly past you.  If they make it to the end of the tunnel.. your almost always destroyed.  Gyruss is more lazy.  Its more about learning the enemy bullet drop timing and patterns... and taking the risks, or playing it safe.


 Star Trek, has a limit on its Turn ratio.  You cant just spin so fast that you make a solid ball.   
Same for racing games like Turbo... where you can steer, but not spin out in place.  Even as Turbo has a fast steering movement... its not 1 to 1 ratio.  Its in the garage now, so Ill just guess that Its more like 1 complete wheel turn, to
2" of steering... or a 2 to 1 ratio.  Where as the TP demo shows a higher ratio in the opposite direction:
1 wheel turn  = 15 on screen spins... or a 1 to 15 ratio.

 Which leads me to a slight change in my opinion...

 IF you limit the turn ratio to be more in sync with the real movement speed.. then it may be ok.
For example, in Time Pilot, you shouldnt be able to do 'in place' 360s.  Spinning should equate much closer to the games original speed, when a joysticks being held down. 

 Once you stop spinning, it stops the 'button depress'.  A certain level of dead zone may be needed, for changing directions, as well as being able to maintain a straight line.  Which could be programmed in so that only after a certain amount of spin, would then start the movement process. (sensitivity?) Stops would be immediate however.

 
 Another thing that might be done, would be to speed up the enemies.  Such as in the Speedup hack in MsPaman.  As that would up the difficulty, making a better match to your increased (but not over the top) spinner speeds.

Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: einarsen on September 05, 2016, 02:58:15 pm

Hmmm... As someone who doesn't typically compile code... is there an option for an .exe download for this mod? I'd love to play Gyruss and Time Pilot on my new spinner bartop. When I set the four directions on MAME I get a strange behavior where it moves 180 degrees, then stops, then moves if I spin the opposite direction.

Not a newbie, but don't typically compile code.

--Brad
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: haynor666 on September 06, 2016, 01:42:54 am
Very interesting hack, too bad that is not straight usable in latest mame.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Derken73 on June 18, 2019, 10:41:12 am
sorry for the newbie question, but how do i go about adding the diff.txt file in mame?
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: negative1 on June 20, 2019, 12:09:35 pm
sorry for the newbie question, but how do i go about adding the diff.txt file in mame?

follow the instructions in the tutorial to compile MAME:
http://forum.attractmode.org/index.php?topic=348.30

later
-1
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Derken73 on July 15, 2019, 09:22:30 am
i gave it a try but unfortunately it's a bit above my skill set... :dunno
Would someone be so kind to do it for me and other not so tech savvy people?

I'll be happy to pay a few bucks for it!


My goal is to get my Ultimarc Spintrack working with Gyruss
http://www.ultimarc.com/SpinTrak.htm (http://www.ultimarc.com/SpinTrak.htm)
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Mike A on July 15, 2019, 09:43:45 am
Gyruss is one of the great classic games. I wish people would stop trying to wreck it.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: leapinlew on July 15, 2019, 05:55:40 pm
i gave it a try but unfortunately it's a bit above my skill set... :dunno
Would someone be so kind to do it for me and other not so tech savvy people?

I'll be happy to pay a few bucks for it!


My goal is to get my Ultimarc Spintrack working with Gyruss
http://www.ultimarc.com/SpinTrak.htm (http://www.ultimarc.com/SpinTrak.htm)

I'm not sure I even have a copy of the fully compiled version of Mame that allows spinner control for Gyruss and Time Pilot. Let me take a look.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Mr. Peabody on July 15, 2019, 10:12:00 pm
Gyruss is one of the great classic games. I wish people would stop trying to wreck it.

It's a great game either way. The native rate of travel is fast enough such that a spinner makes it only a little easier.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: leapinlew on August 03, 2019, 04:57:20 pm
Big thanks to bratwurst who shared his copy of spinmame. I'm pretty sure this is the same copy I was using. I tested and it's working as expected.

Send me a PM if you want a copy of it.


Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Derken73 on August 05, 2019, 05:00:58 am
it works brilliantly
got to stage 9 on my first try  >:D

many many thanks!
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: negative1 on August 08, 2019, 05:31:48 pm
thanks to lew for getting to try this out.

i'm already an expert at both games, and can flip both of them with the normal controls.

however, playing with an analog dial gives a lot more precision of course, and makes it much
easier to play.

so for beginners, this is a good way to train.

later
-1
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: leapinlew on August 08, 2019, 08:26:02 pm
thanks to lew for getting to try this out.

i'm already an expert at both games, and can flip both of them with the normal controls.

however, playing with an analog dial gives a lot more precision of course, and makes it much
easier to play.

so for beginners, this is a good way to train.

later
-1

For me, it makes the games much more playable, but since the game is designed to work with a joystick (for some reason), the game was designed to be not as difficult as they would have made it if you had analog controls. To me those games make more sense with a spinner.

It takes out some of the challenge, but that's because it's using bad controls.
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: opt2not on August 08, 2019, 09:23:25 pm
It takes out some of the challenge, but that's because it's using bad controls.

(http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/media/MPuTZQqOmYKPK/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: leapinlew on August 08, 2019, 09:43:21 pm
It takes out some of the challenge, but that's because it's using bad controls.

(http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/media/MPuTZQqOmYKPK/giphy.gif)

Oh yeah! Goes without saying.

Plenty of folks love the controls and gameplay as it is. With a spinner, itís like a game genie hack. Since the game was programmed to be used with a joystick the game is much easier. If you could play tempest with a joystick, it would probably be super difficult because itís meant to be played with a spinner. Different strokes...
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Mr. Peabody on August 10, 2019, 06:58:48 pm
Gyruss and Time Pilot controllers seem weird when you think laterally rather than circularly. A little re-programming and off to the races. Or at least in Gyruss you could stay in the lower third of the screen....
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: opt2not on August 11, 2019, 12:03:35 am
It takes out some of the challenge, but that's because it's using bad controls.

(http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/media/MPuTZQqOmYKPK/giphy.gif)

Oh yeah! Goes without saying.

Plenty of folks love the controls and gameplay as it is. With a spinner, itís like a game genie hack. Since the game was programmed to be used with a joystick the game is much easier. If you could play tempest with a joystick, it would probably be super difficult because itís meant to be played with a spinner. Different strokes...
Except itís not different strokes. Itís just plain wrong.
The original designer didnít intend to use a spinner for those games. This is especially true with Gyruss. Itís apparent to how positioning and spawn patterns cater to an 8-way joystick, and memorizing the spawn locations with the ability to quickly move your ship to a specific location is a major part of the game. You donít get specific location movement with a spinner. In Gyruss Down-right will always move your ship to the 4-oíclock position. Up, will always move your ship to 12-oíclock. If you are truly familiar with the game youíd know that being able to get to these locations quickly for enemy spawns is 80% of the gameplay.

Letís not construe this more than it is. Itís a neat hack to mess with the game. But to try to spin this as ďitís better with spinnerĒ is just ridiculous. Itís like saying, Leonardo Da Vinci shouldnít have painted the Mona Lisa with a sfumato technique, layered painting is better. Or Picasso should have done Impressionism rather than cubism because people can digest it easier.
 
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: negative1 on August 11, 2019, 12:59:35 am
i wonder if anyone got good at the crystal castles joystick version, which came after
the original trackball.

i tried the emulated version, and did ok, but it made it harder.

marble madness had a trackball, and the plan was for marble madness 2 to use joysticks.
but that didn't pan out.

some games feel more natural with certain controllers, others, the limitations of them,
can complement the game.

later
-1
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: leapinlew on August 11, 2019, 01:49:24 am
Except itís not different strokes. Itís just plain wrong.
The original designer didnít intend to use a spinner for those games. This is especially true with Gyruss. Itís apparent to how positioning and spawn patterns cater to an 8-way joystick, and memorizing the spawn locations with the ability to quickly move your ship to a specific location is a major part of the game. You donít get specific location movement with a spinner. In Gyruss Down-right will always move your ship to the 4-oíclock position. Up, will always move your ship to 12-oíclock. If you are truly familiar with the game youíd know that being able to get to these locations quickly for enemy spawns is 80% of the gameplay.

Letís not construe this more than it is. Itís a neat hack to mess with the game. But to try to spin this as ďitís better with spinnerĒ is just ridiculous. Itís like saying, Leonardo Da Vinci shouldnít have painted the Mona Lisa with a sfumato technique, layered painting is better. Or Picasso should have done Impressionism rather than cubism because people can digest it easier.
 

I did say it was a hack because, well, it clearly is and it's also pretty obvious that "it's better with a spinner" is my opinion.

Your points about Gyruss are well placed. You zeroed in on the one game where game play was designed well for a joystick. I don't like the game all that much, but I did enjoy it with the spinner. That's why I prefer it with a spinner - I just liked it and would actually play it. The more random games, such as Time Pilot, Star Castle, Asteroids - those work much better out of the box with a spinner than Gyruss.

We had a version of Track'n'field with trackballs at our local bowling alley. That was a total blast and I really pumped some quarters into it. To me, that's a good example where controls were switched and it made a different, and some would say, better experience.

Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: negative1 on August 11, 2019, 04:58:30 pm

I did say it was a hack because, well, it clearly is and it's also pretty obvious that "it's better with a spinner" is my opinion.

Your points about Gyruss are well placed. You zeroed in on the one game where game play was designed well for a joystick. I don't like the game all that much, but I did enjoy it with the spinner. That's why I prefer it with a spinner - I just liked it and would actually play it. The more random games, such as Time Pilot, Star Castle, Asteroids - those work much better out of the box with a spinner than Gyruss.


time pilot was designed by the same guy that did gyruss.

i don't feel like anythings missing out when playing that game with a joystick.

same with time pilot 84 which also used a joystick. but that was a much harder game.

later
-1
Title: Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
Post by: Mr. Peabody on August 12, 2019, 07:56:24 pm
Set the spinner sensitivity to match the rate of the movement in the original.

Time Pilot '84 has peculiar elements that constrain flight patterns, especially in later levels. However, the game is not in Spinmame.

Marble Madness is fine with a trackball, and finer with a joystick. Fast run areas are easier with a stick with sensitivity of analog directions set to 100.