The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Reviews => Topic started by: cadmium on September 09, 2008, 02:13:14 pm
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I recently purchased 2 UltraStik 360s (u360's) from a reseller on ebay. Unfortunately, one of them arrive with a broken usb connector (it only works when you hold the cable in a certain position) and is being sent back to the reseller for repairs.
However, I got the other one installed and working. Even with the medium spring, the throw is fairly light. I'm running with no restrictor on (they sell several optional ones), so the throw is pretty long - not obscene - but still slightly longer than the Happ Compeition it's replacing.
The lack of clicks is somewhat disconcerting and it's a little easier to loose track of where the exact compass points are with no click references. But that's something I'll get used to, and I guess no one ever complains about lack of clickiness.
I opted for the bat design handles, which I gather are a little taller than the balltops and a closer match to the comps (though still a tad shorter overall). The plastic is smoother than the happs and maybe a little cheaper feeling, but still quite sturdy. Minor complaint though.
As far as game performance goes, it all works as advertised. 8 way works just as good as the comps, with the exception that the longer throw makes the double forward dash in Street Fighter a little trickier -but not impossible- to hit. Otherwise it seems just as accurate, no problems pulling off anything else.
4 way is night and day, no comparison. I was actually able play pacman and not get stuck in every corner. Everything works as advertised there. Though I haven't set up Q-bert to work on diagonals yet.
Analog also seems to work pretty well, though this does bring up one issue - centering. Even with the spring, there is significant center play. This isn't a big deal with 4/8 way games as there is a generous deadzone set up, but with analog games the centering is an issue. It's not that the center play is any worse than any other stick, you just notice it with analog games a lot more.
Software-wise UltraMap is simple and easy to use. It seemed to have random settings when first installed though (Required joys 1 & 3 installed? Restrictor set to on for joy 1, none on joy 2, and some custom ones on 3 & 4?). The only serious complaint I have is when I set up my Fron-end (Maximus Arcade) to automatically download maps based on games (as suggested for MameWah), it throws up an error message if there is no pre-defined maps. Given that I have a recent full set of roms, that's a lot of predefined maps to create. So I don't know if that feature will help me. It would be nice if it defaulted to a certain map if there was no other one specified, or at least not throw up an error message.
Regarding the broken usb connector on the second stick, for what it's worth, I asked Andrew (from Ultimarc) and he says they do support the product no matter where or who it was purchased from. I opted to have the reseller repair the item, mostly because it was free and I don't know how much it will cost to fix or replace it with Ultimarc, but the option was there.
Anyway, those are my first impressions. If I have any more thoughts or experiences I will post here.
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automatically download maps based on games (as suggested for MameWah), it throws up an error message if there is no pre-defined maps. Given that I have a recent full set of roms, that's a lot of predefined maps to create.
You don't have to make a map per game, just per control style (2/4/8-way, analog, stick, trackball, lightgun, dial, paddle, buttons, etc)
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=79003.0
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Unfortunately, I don't think Maximus Arcade can output input types, only game names, so I don't think I could set it up that way.
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Sorry, I read it wrong. Set it to analog and Mame can change it for you.
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This centering play is a concern. One thing I like about the Happ P360s is there is none. It's stuck dead center and you have to move it to get it out. But I would like the flexibility of the U360s. Who was the merchant?
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I bought from epraiser123. From what he was saying, he got them for his own machine, but didn't care for them. As far as I know, he's not selling any more. He does sell some other arcade stuff though.
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I have some subtle centering issues as well. I don't play many analog games, but I have my U360 to be mapped to Mouse upon exit of MALA. I then use the stick to shut down my machine. Sometimes though I find that the mouse pointer moves automatically in one direction without my touching the stick. If I spin the stick, the pointer movement corresponds to that new direction. I think it has to do with the magnet on the bottom of the stick not being seated correctly, but I don't notice it in any 4 or 8-way games.
I think there was a thread about this issue but I couldn't find it in a search.
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One of my sticks won't let the magnet sit completely straight, and the analog is slightly off-center because of it. This has no affect on mapped settings, though.
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I just don't like any play - wiggle - in the stick. I want it stationary untill I put force on it.
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I just don't like any play - wiggle - in the stick. I want it stationary untill I put force on it.
That's not an issue. It stays put. I know what you mean and I hate it, too.
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I just don't like any play - wiggle - in the stick. I want it stationary untill I put force on it.
That's not an issue. It stays put. I know what you mean and I hate it, too.
Hmmm. I thought someone recently said there was wiggle in them.
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Hmmm. I thought someone recently said there was wiggle in them.
Mine has plenty of wiggle/center play, but surprisingly no change in centering when I rotate the stick, so I guess it's just a spring issue.
I went back and checked my old Happs Competition and they have virtual no center play at all.
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I just don't like any play - wiggle - in the stick. I want it stationary untill I put force on it.
That's not an issue. It stays put. I know what you mean and I hate it, too.
Hmmm. I thought someone recently said there was wiggle in them.
Dunno, but it's nothing I've had an issue with. I'm using the harder springs and neither of my sticks have any play to them.
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I don't know either. Maybe my spring is not quite installed right?
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Sounds like the harder springs are the way to go for me then. Thanks.
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Just got my 2nd stick back from the seller who fixed it. Guess it was a bent usb connector, no big deal to fix, but he still took care of it, so kudos so epraiser123.
The second stick has a little less center play, but a little bit of that center rotation when you twirl the stick. I think part of the problem may be that one of the washers was missing on the pcb, so that may account for some if it. Whenever I get around to running to home depot I'll look for a similar plastic washer. I'm not too worried because I don't use the 2 player stick very often (for some reason the wife isn't as jazzed about the arcade as me).
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The second stick has a little less center play, but a little bit of that center rotation when you twirl the stick. I think part of the problem may be that one of the washers was missing on the pcb, so that may account for some if it.
That is an interesting observation. I got my circular restrictors last night and when I went to install them I found that one of my PCBs had only one washer and the other had three washers. In the process of getting the plates installed, all of the washers fell off anyhow. I'm not honestly sure what the correct number is, but it seems to me the the QC is a tad lacking somewhere here. When I received my two U360s, I also had to superglue the magnet back into one of the holders as it came in two pieces which was a bit disconcerting. I did notice that when I finally got the sticks back together, I could get rid of most of the center play by making sure the PCB was tightened all the way to the base. If I left just one of the screws a little loose, the joystick motion would show it.
Dave
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I had a sensor fall of, too. There are two kinds of play here: what is registered by the sensor, and that in the joystick mechanism itself.
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Just thought I'd updated to post a picture of my 2 u360's installed
(http://www.cadred.net/personal/phoenix/cp.jpg)
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Those do look a little low for comfort, unless you hold it near the top. Probably fine if standing up.
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I like mine low. I bottom mounted my balltop U360s and my Happ Comps without any routing.
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Those do look a little low for comfort, unless you hold it near the top. Probably fine if standing up.
They are a touch low, but honestly I've had no problems with them, height-wise.
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My setup: U360, hard spring, no restrictors, top mounted, dust washer under CPO.
I like the stick (even if I did mount it sideways ::) ). I did have a slight problem with the dust washer that was easily corrected:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=82241.msg891265#msg891265
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I sit down at my machines so especially a bat type that is so low is hard to leverage accurately in-game.
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I've noticed that one of my u360's has centering issues. I figured I could correct it with the windows calibration tool, but it still seemed to be an issue. I noticed that the little black plastic sensor thing that's directly below the magnet isn't on level. Could that be the cause of my problem? If so I guess I have a board that shouldn't have passed QC!
I also noticed, and I'm not sure if this is a potential problem or not, that with my restrictors on the magnet can come in contact with the base of the post, causing the magnet to lift slightly away from the stick. That happens only if I'm pulling slightly on the stick, but that kind of bothers me since I wonder if that will cause accuracy/calibration issues.
I'll probably run these issues past Andy privately, but thought I'd mention them here in case anyone else has noticed them.
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As far as the board, are your posts all screwed in properly? It sounds more like a post issue instead of the board.
The magnet issue is weird. I have only tried the circular restrictor and have never had this problem.
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Yep. All screwed in properly/completely. I took it apart and put it back together again just to be sure. And you'd probably never know that the magnet was lifting unless you were watching it while trying to make it happen. I just happened to notice that it comes REALLY close to the base of the posts (like a hair width away!), so I tried to make it happen by pulling up on the stick and sure enough, it touched and lifted slightly.
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And you'd probably never know that the magnet was lifting unless you were watching it while trying to make it happen.
Oh, I have. I've tried it out in a lot of different ways. I've also tried pressing in directions really quick, just to see if the magnet would come off or shift, but that hasn't been an issue.
Is the PCB as far on the posts as they possibly can go? Pics would be nice, just so we can see what you mean. I see no reason why the PCB would be warped in any way, so I don't understand why it isn't sitting level.
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It's on all the way. You misunderstood. My pcb isn't warped. It's that little round black plastic sensor thing that's in the center of the pcb - it doesn't sit flat on the pcb. One side of it is raised up so it's at a bit of an angle. My other u360 is fine though.
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Ahhhhhhhh.....now I understand. Sounds like a problem that Andy would probably take care of.
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I don't think that's the sensor but merely a cover over the sensor, and they're glued on.
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Yeah, I'm sure it's not - plastic usually isn't good at sensing things. ;D
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In the case of non-centering problems there is a check you can do to see if the stick is mechanically out of alignment. The LED on the PCB indicates the position before any internal calibration and scaling is performed.
First switch the LED to the X axis by moving full travel in the X direction. Then check the flashing of the LED. It should flash with the shortest pulses when the stick is centered.
Then move full travel Y to switch the LED to the Y axis, and check the Y axis.
If the quickest flash is not in the center, have a look to see if the mounting brackets have been bent at all. It might be possible to re-align the PCB to correct the problem. If not, let me know and we can see what needs to be done.
Never try to correct this type of problam using the Windows Game Controller calibration, this will mess everything up.
Andy
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I am also having centering problems with one of my U360s. If you get a chance, try swapping the magnetic actuator between the two sticks. I have found that my centering issues can be directly linked to the actuator. One of the magnets creates my centering issue on either stick, to the point that on the default 8-way map, one direction is almost always made even when the stick is mechanically centered.
Dave
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Andy, have you thought about selling the 360's with the hard spring and circular restrictor already installed?
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i recieved the octagonal restrictors (got them all now :)
i will test them this week
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have installed one of them on player 1 side. (octagonal). My first impression is that i can make more stable 8 way movement. As i like fighters a lot, it feels more controlled. I can do a strong direct ha do ken fireball in sf2. with circular its more a drunk ha do ken, more wobbly. Also played some pacman, it feels a lot better, now i know that i really press up or down, and not a loose up or down.
ill test some more later. But first impression is good. Better then circular
In ultramap there was no octagonal option, so i disabled the restrictor option
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I've bought the U360 sticks a while ago directly at Ultimarc and the standard setup and ordered the tough springs right away, and I must say the centering of the joystick is pretty darn fine. I'm still going order the restrictors as I think the U360 has quite some tilt. You don't need to go al the way in a 4/8-way setup to actually send a signal but that's just reflexes to move the joystick to it's end (searching the click ;)). So in order to save my U360's from too enthousiastic play the restrictors will help for sure.
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That was my first post and this godlike forum :notworthy:
I'm in baby, I'm in!! ;D
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I got 2 of them for my first new arcade and I really like them. I am not an expert and found them easy to connect and configure. I enjoy playing game with them and are pretty easy to configure 8 way or 4 way (take less than few seconds to switch).
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(take less than few seconds to switch)
Then you don't have it set up well enough. It should be damn near instant.
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Another thumbs up for the U360. I've got two with the stiff spring and circular restrictor and they work beautifully. A big thumbs up from me.
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How are the analog or 49 way games with the circular or octagonal restrictors? In, say, Star Wars or Sinistar, do you have enough control or is the throw just too short when restricted?
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Sinistar is fine. Star Wars is definitely playable, you just can't reach the corners of the screen, but that never seems to cause a problem.
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Sinistar is fine. Star Wars is definitely playable, you just can't reach the corners of the screen, but that never seems to cause a problem.
I thought with the scaling feature in the U360s, that wasn't an issue.
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The circular and octagonal restrictors obviously cause this slight issue, though. The shape causes the corners to be just out of reach, but like I said, it's never given me any problems.
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Sinistar is fine. Star Wars is definitely playable, you just can't reach the corners of the screen, but that never seems to cause a problem.
If you don't mind me asking, what are your analog settings for Star Wars?
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I don't have any, so whatever the default is. I've noticed if I move the stick around a few times, it tends to center properly when I'm ready to start.
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It's worth noting that the U360's are gamepads. Mame should have no problem with them however several other emulators have immature, or no, gamepad support and you'll need to rely on joy2key or joytokey and it's ilk for those emulators.
Hrm. In fact, i have a whole list of issues for the u360's. I'll post them in another thread.
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I'm not too sure my Ultrastiks are beahving properly in analogue mode.
In Star Wars for example, the "sight" is not centered unless I wiggle the joystick up/down and left/right quickly when on the level select screen (I don't recall having to do this with the yoke on the original machine). I am using the hardened spring with no restrictor, and find playing Star Wars pretty impossible. I notice that full control is acheived with the sticks not at full defelction, and that it is incredibly hard to control the sight, especially when pushing down it seems. It may just be the mechanical feel of the springs, but I always feel my contol is imprecise. And yes, i have selected "no restrictor" in the mapping software.
Out Run i have had to play around with the analogue settings in Mame. I can play it now, but again there seems to be so little mecahnical difference between say hard right and easy right that I am almost having to treat the stick like a digital 8 way, which rather defeats the purpose.
Any tips guys?
On a positive note, the sticks play non-analogue games really well.
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In Star Wars for example, the "sight" is not centered unless I wiggle the joystick up/down and left/right quickly when on the level select screen (I don't recall having to do this with the yoke on the original machine)
This is just what you have to do to calibrate it, but I agree the game is almost unplayable. (really need the yoke anyway...)
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I get much better control in Star Wars using the Flightstick on my CP than the U360.
Keep the U360 handy for games like Afterburner 2 and Steel Talons though, they work great as analog throttles in addition to a flightstick.
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Yup, I wouldn't use it for either of those games. I can't think of any analogue control game I use it for, though there must be one or two....
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Food Fight, once you calibrate it right.
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Escape from the planet of robot monsters.
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I thought of Food Fight, but I don't really like that game. (Same theme and way better is Williams' SPLAT.) And I don't know as I've noticed much difference between using it and a digital stick. I actually can't imagine why this game was given an analog stick - especially as later on, the ice cream melts so quick, it kinda reminds me of the eventual banality of Leprechaun.
EPRM - right. Not one I've played much, but useful. Actually, probly the best game that comes to mind for the U360 is Sinistar. Then there's I, Robot. Starhawk if they ever get that done right. Could probly use it for 720. Of course, any analog flight stick game, but preferably with a flight stick on it. Well, there's Atari's Road Runner, too....but that game just kinda sucks anyways. (Neat idea, great graphics, dead game play after thirty seconds.)
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I thought of Food Fight, but I don't really like that game.
As a kid, I enjoyed the Atari 7800 version. The arcade....eh, not so much.
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So, for those of you who have gotten to use this game in 8-way mode, particularly with circle or octo gates, what is your opinion of diagonal sensitivity? One of the reasons I have been averse to jumping on the Japanese joystick bandwagon is because the only way to get sensitive diagonals is to use a square gate, which means that you now have the opposite problems of the X and Y directions being poorly defined. I liked the iL Competition / Euro sticks because the X, Y, and diagonal directions were all equally sensitive and accessible, making it feel like a true 8-way stick rather than a "4 way + diagonals."
The iL / Happ sticks have plenty of other problems like being too bouncy when released, causing unwanted inputs and the articulator getting twisted causing an irritating "crunch" during play, which is why I am looking into Japanese style sticks like all the pros are using, however I don't want to give up the wonderfully balanced 8-way sensitivity of the Competition sticks. The Ultrastick sounds promising, especially since you can choose between a long throw (no restrictor plate) or a short throw (8 way / circle plate) which could help me in my transition (especially with a harder spring installed), but it's the balance between diagonals and X/Y movement that I am most concerned about, since aside from the nostalgia of American-style parts that's the one thing that Competition sticks actually do better than JLFs.
I use mostly charge characters in Street Fighter so good diagonals are important, but I also need good X/Y directional movement since I'm also into Mortal Kombat. Would the Ultrastick 360 meet my needs as a fighting game enthusiast who plays a lot of Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, MVC etc? How hard is it to get used to playing a fighter on a stick with no micro switches, and are there advantages / disadvantages I should be aware of before I consider investing it the U360, P360, Sanwa Flash, or any other switchless stick? I think am ready to graduate from the school Happ, but I don't want to dive in head first-- I want the familiarity of a long throw and equal responsiveness from all 8 directions, without the springiness, crunchiness, and all around decreased precision that comes with Happ / iL joysticks. Also, keep in mind that I would be using the U360 in 8-way mode, not analog, since it would be in a fightstick case for consoles rather than hooked up to Mame.
And out of curiousity, does anyone know if the U360 would fit inside a Madcatz TE fightstick, even if it means making some modification to the internals of the MCTE's housing? I have a buddy who is sick of opening up his to swap between his 8-way JLF and his 4-way Seimitsu every time he wants to go from Street Fighter to Tetris, and he is interested in the U360 too.