The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Monitor/Video Forum => Topic started by: Ken Layton on March 20, 2007, 12:44:53 pm
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If anyone is seriously considering buying a Wells-Gardner monitor, you should check out this link about their many problems being experienced lately:
http://www.vendoramusements.com/bbs/nph-YaBB.pl?num=1165873842
Vendor Amusements is a large Canadian game route operator.
EDIT:
Here is some more:
In return, I expect to see the following from Wells Gardner:
1) Some more realistic troubleshooting documents available from Wells Gardner. Charts showing waveform diagrams and voltage checks at test points. Troubleshooting flowcharts that consist of MORE than the most basic problems solved by replacing a large number of components.
Surely your techs deal with these problems everyday, and know the problem spots.
2) Above mentioned documents available sooner than years after the model has been on the market.
3) A SERIOUS effort at designing a chassis that has about 1/2 the components the current models have. Drop the on-screen-display. Use capacitors that are known for quality (i.e. Nichicon, etc) NOT what is the cheapest available.
And have the plant at whatever third world country you are getting your chassis built at FIX THEIR GODDAM SOLDER FLOW MACHINE.
In return, I won't tell our distributor NOT to ship us any equipment that has a Wells Gardner monitor in it. Imagine our next order for 50 Big Buck Hunter Pro's or Golden Tee LIVE's, but ONLY machines that don't have WG monitors in them. Might tweak the interest of someone at Raw Thrills or IT.
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:applaud:
The third world country appears to be Malaysia, according to the label on the latest POS to come to my shop.
a 13" D7700 arrives new in box from Happ and blows as soon as it's powered up. Found the Horizontal output transistor blown. Replaced it. Still doesn't work. Call WG tech support. They tell me that they're having a problem with the oscillating frequency being improperly set at the factory, causing monitors to go down.
Just another example of poor quality control.
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Posted before, but this probably warrants a sticky just to save people from making bad decisions in monitor purchases.
Any mods want to put this up top for a while?
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I'm probably going to sound like a dumbass for asking this.
In the post at Vendor Amusements
And here's a happy thought - have a look at those nice new flatscreen monitors in the Golden Tee LIVE. Left corner of the chassis - it says 279200.... I also heard a story about the shadowmask inside the picture tubes falling off.
What is 279200 referring to? A WG9200 monitor?
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And I was under the impression that Wells-Gardner was an arcade standard..
definitely good stuff to know...
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I'm probably going to sound like a dumbass for asking this.
What is 279200 referring to? A WG9200 monitor?
Yes, a Wells-Gardner D9200 series.
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And I was under the impression that Wells-Gardner was an arcade standard..
The older WG's are very reliable and that's how WG got to be a "Standard" in the first place, but the newer stuff being outsourced to Malaysia (and maybe other places) has had a lot of quality issues, while increasing the degree of difficulty of repair and minimizing the amount of paperwork available to help the common tech.
Can't remember the last time I got a WG monitor new in box that actually included any paperwork....
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Sony CRT monitors made in Malaysia have a bad habit of being plagued with problems too.
Maybe it is the same factory :dunno
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I was also under the impression that WG were the best... Since you guys are clearly more knowledgeable than I, can you recommend a good arcade monitor to use in a MAME cab, possibly hooked up through ArcadeVGA? I'm trying to plan my project, and since this is the most expensive component, I really want to get it right. Thanks for any help!
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And I was under the impression that Wells-Gardner was an arcade standard..
The older WG's are very reliable and that's how WG got to be a "Standard" in the first place,
How old are we talking about? Did they just recently change, or has it been a couple years?
-Stobe
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The problems started about 12 years ago. This is now a long standing problem with quality control and bad design.
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IMHO, the ONLY WG model that don't break down as often as others is the K4600's :dunno
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Having owned a WG9200 (lasted 1.5 years) a Betson 27" (really bad picture problems) and a billabs (2 years and no issues). I will only ever recommend the Billabs, it's just a great stable product.
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The Billabs is actually a Wei-ya brand. Billabs is a distributor/importer of Wei-ya complete monitors.
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Is there anyone around Milwaukee that works on these monitors?
I bought one for my Mame machine and had warranty work done on it back in Oct. 06
Now the monitor is non-functional again. I get the first windows screen but when it should switch to the windows logo it just sits there and clicks for a few times and then shows a blank screen. Seems like it can't switch resolutions...
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sorry...WG9200 monitor... :-[ :-[
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Having owned a WG9200 (lasted 1.5 years) a Betson 27" (really bad picture problems) and a billabs (2 years and no issues). I will only ever recommend the Billabs, it's just a great stable product.
Aw crap. My cab's D9200's blue gun went out. Just bought a replacement D9400 for $495. I didn't realize these mothers are so bad. Why does it seem like all the other msg brd's and sites talk about how WG's are so good?
argh. I hope the D9400 lasts for a while.
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The Billabs is actually a Wei-ya brand. Billabs is a distributor/importer of Wei-ya complete monitors.
I placed a Wei-ya chassis on a 25" Wells Gardner, and it works fine now! :laugh:
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Just thought I'd share my experience with my WG D9200. Bought it in 2004, didn't install it until 2007. After less than a month of use, the screen went green on me - images still visible, but no red or blue components to the image. The OSD was displaying colors fine. Tried it with a different computer with the same problem. Tried the existing computer with a different monitor and colors were fine. Went into the service menu (holding down sel and down) and adjusted the color bias to no effect. I called WG and left a message for a tech. He called back and I walked him through what I already tried. Without hesitation he said that I needed a new IC103. Called one of their distributors from the WG website that happened to be around the corner from me and ordered 2 (they were < $4). Found and desoldered IC103, soldered in a socket (suspecting that this might happen again), popped in the new IC103 and everything is back to working (colors are fine). I'm disappointed that this happened and I'm no monitor tech, so I'm glad I was able to fix it. It definitely sounded like the tech had seen this problem enough times to be confident in his statement regarding needing a new IC103.
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What was the generic chip number type of IC103 for other people's reference so they can buy it too?
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Ken,
Looking at the schematic and parts list it appears to be a Serial EEPROM, 24C02. They specifically list KS24C02, but I forget what manufacturer is KS.
ST and I'm sure other manufacturers offer a Write Protect version of the chip. When Pin 7 pulled is high it disables writes. Might be worth it to get a few of versions of those chips and put a toggle on the pin to see if it helps. That way you can set it to disable writes after you configure the monitor, which I am currently assuming is the only time it writes a value. I also assume the chip is getting erased during start up and the 5V line hasn't settled.
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Happ has WG monitors on sale right now (are they clearing out ?) They're even cheaper than the Vision-Pro's right now.
http://happcontrols.com/monthlyspec/a1207.pdf
Is the K7000 series as bad as described above ? I can get any Happ products through Suzo's head-office here so I might be tempted.....
[Edit] Weird that these still require an isolation transformer ! Pretty old-fashioned !
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Thanks for bringing this to everybody's attention. I was recently looking to purchase a monitor and noticed those. Luckily, I did quite a bit of research and noticed the wide variances in quality between users. I ended up buying another brand.
That company should be ashamed! :angry:
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In regards to the Serial EEPROM...
I had a Wells Gardner 27D9200 (in a Golden Tee 2005) that you could adjust the on-screen menu parameters, namely the screen width and position, and then if you powered the game down and back up, the monitor would forget whatever it was that you had adjusted before.
Not too big a deal, but the golf game's picture would be shifted too far to one side for the player's liking.
It wasnt obvious at first because you would adjust the monitor, and all would be well then you would leave the location. The next day they would call and say "Hey the golf game's picture was all shifted over too far"
Replacing the Serial EEPROM fixed the problem as this is where the monitor writes its adjustment parameters to. It's little pea brain if you will ...LOL
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Just a quick note on the D9200 EEPROM problems:
Like others I have run into situations where the EEPROM data gets corrupted resulting in usually a dark screen/dim picture. It's a EEPROM "corrupt data" problem if the screen is dim BUT the OSD displays displays fine.
I usually replace the EEPROM with a new one, programmed with data from a D9200 that displays OK. However, it may not be necessary to replace with a programmed EEPROM (maybe a completely blank one will load default settings?) but I have never tried this - D9200s are problematic enough without any help from me!
The retarded thing is that the original EEPROM (IC103) is soldered, not socketed. I usually install a socket as well.
My speculation is that either power glitches or static (ESD) causes the contents of the EEPROM to be corrupted.
However the generic "el cheapo" non branded EEPROMs that WG seems to use could very well be the cause. I have had good results replacing these with non-generic chips, which has severely reduced instances of EEPROM corruption. (So much so that I haven't needed to resort to plan B, which is installing a switch to disable EEPROM writes during normal operation).
Anyway, I just want to echo the original theme that the WG D9200 monitors are pretty crappy in terms of reliability and too damn complex in terms of parts. Yes, tri-res is cool but not if it's going to be more unreliable than a >20 year old K 4900 series (which for my money was the MOST reliable WG monitor model ever - I don't think I've every seen a voltage reg or flyback failure on one of these!).
The most recent monitors the company I work for purchased were Makvision 24.8" Tri-Res. While these seem to be nice we'll see how these hold up in the long term. I was rather disappointed that there was no schematic in the box tho (manual yes, but it didn't have a schematic).
Kevin.
~HalfMachine~
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I have a chance to get a 25" Wells Gardner 25k7193 for $80.
It was pulled from a Neo Geo. This would be my first arcade monitor purchase and I don't want to buy something that's no good.
Is this a good monitor to use with the arcadeVGA?
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If anyone is seriously considering buying a Wells-Gardner monitor, you should check out this link about their many problems being experienced lately:
http://www.vendoramusements.com/bbs/nph-YaBB.pl?num=1165873842
Vendor Amusements is a large Canadian game route operator.
EDIT:
Here is some more:
In return, I expect to see the following from Wells Gardner:
1) Some more realistic troubleshooting documents available from Wells Gardner. Charts showing waveform diagrams and voltage checks at test points. Troubleshooting flowcharts that consist of MORE than the most basic problems solved by replacing a large number of components.
Surely your techs deal with these problems everyday, and know the problem spots.
2) Above mentioned documents available sooner than years after the model has been on the market.
3) A SERIOUS effort at designing a chassis that has about 1/2 the components the current models have. Drop the on-screen-display. Use capacitors that are known for quality (i.e. Nichicon, etc) NOT what is the cheapest available.
And have the plant at whatever third world country you are getting your chassis built at FIX THEIR GODDAM SOLDER FLOW MACHINE.
In return, I won't tell our distributor NOT to ship us any equipment that has a Wells Gardner monitor in it. Imagine our next order for 50 Big Buck Hunter Pro's or Golden Tee LIVE's, but ONLY machines that don't have WG monitors in them. Might tweak the interest of someone at Raw Thrills or IT.
Ken.
Do you have any recommendations of monitor brands?
Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
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In no particular order have been good reports on these:
Makvision
Pentranic
Nieman Displays (Amusements Plus stocks this)
Kortek (Betson-Imperial)
Wei-Ya (sold by Alva Amusement)
Billabs (actually a Wei-ya that's been Americanized)
Tovis (Happ Vision Pro is a rebranded Tovis)
Kortek and Tovis have been used in the demanding video slot machine market.
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In no particular order have been good reports on these:
Makvision
Pentranic
Nieman Displays (Amusements Plus stocks this)
Kortek (Betson-Imperial)
Wei-Ya (sold by Alva Amusement)
Billabs (actually a Wei-ya that's been Americanized)
Tovis (Happ Vision Pro is a rebranded Tovis)
Kortek and Tovis have been used in the demanding video slot machine market.
Thanks.
This whole VGA, CGA, ect. issue was getting confusing and I was hoping to get specific model numbers from game owners with experience.
Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
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darn it, I just purchased a Wells 9400 :(
It was recomended to me by the site I bought my cabinet from :(
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darn it, I just purchased a Wells 9400 :(
It was recomended to me by the site I bought my cabinet from :(
from what I understand the problems are with the older 9200 model...but don't quote me...I'm new here...maybe someone else can chime in
jon
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All the "digital" models have problems.
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So does that mean 9400 included?
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All the "digital" models have problems.
what's that mean?
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It means yes. 'Digital' means any of their multi-syncs that retain geometry settings. The 9200 and 9400 are digital models.
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How do you know it wasn't fixed after the 9200 was decommissioned?
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How do you know it wasn't fixed after the 9200 was decommissioned?
Ken works on hundreds of monitors a year. I'm sure he's seen the problems many, many times.
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Well, of course I'm bias because I am a wholesale distributor but the reason I chose to sell Nieman Video displays is because I think they are the most reliable. I was an only Wells guy till they outsourced their production. Rick Nieman was an engineer on the Electrohome team. The GO-7 IMHO was the best CGA monitor ever built.
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Just an FYI
I spoke to Loran at Wells Gardner and she said yes, they had some problems with their chassis but according to her they resolved the issue. Whether that is true or not I can't say with 100% certainty, but at least they did acknowledge there was a problem and they claim to have resolved it.
As far as us private consumers go, I asked about any warranties they have. The WGM2794-U0FS05S 27" has a one year warranty where they will fix it at no cost. That's not entirely true... you have to pay to ship it to them and then they pay for return shipping. Not really anything uncommon and I had the same scenario with my Sharp projector. The one big difference is I am sure my projector was much cheaper to ship than this guy will be! Still though, it does have a warranty. For the first 90 days if anything happens they will do a complete replacement. It was unclear whether they would ship the new monitor with return shipping for the broken one or if you have to send it to them like stated above. I can call back to clarify that though.
I'm not trying to debunk anything here, just pass on some information I got when I spoke to them. It seemed odd that a company that's been around and long as Well Gardner wouldn't resolve what sounded like a major issue some people were having. Again, according to the company they have resolved the production issues that the earlier models were having.
A one year warranty seems fair to me as well. I realize it could break 13 months after a purchase, but then again so can anything a person buys.
I am still deciding on which way I want to go but thought this was good information to pass along. I definitely will be getting a 27" monitor because the 21" Trinitron I am using just looks too small in my cab, I just haven't decided on which brand to go with yet.
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I should add that when my D9400 came in, the frame was bent. But I took some photos, sent it in, and they mailed a replacement immediately.
(http://i36.tinypic.com/altfmd.jpg)
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I should add that when my D9400 came in, the frame was bent. But I took some photos, sent it in, and they mailed a replacement immediately.
(http://i36.tinypic.com/altfmd.jpg)
I probably would've just taken a hammer to it myself rather than wait, but that's good customer service.
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I should add that when my D9400 came in, the frame was bent. But I took some photos, sent it in, and they mailed a replacement immediately.
(http://i36.tinypic.com/altfmd.jpg)
I probably would've just taken a hammer to it myself rather than wait, but that's good customer service.
We felt pretty wimpy about it. We tried to bend it back with pliers but no luck. It was pretty heavy dutie. Mind you this is the piece of metal that's holding the very heavy monitor in place at just two contact points.
I think most of the problems folks complain about with WD are related to their choice of shifting manufacturing to questionable overseas shops. The stateside service has been very nice.
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Pliers?! Essentially, that frame piece is thinner grade angle iron. Ain't gonna happen. Best is probably a hammer and anvil, though a vice and hammer would also do.
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I am thinking about the Billabs BL27C90T ( http://www.billabs.com/bl27c90t.htm ) for a new monitor. Just need something for a MAME cab, anyone think this is a BAD idea or should I go with it?
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I don't recall seeing anyone disatisifed with its basic operation.....although, there have been some good reports on the WG D9400, which might be worth considering.
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Thanks Ummon. Im a little lost when it comes to monitors, all the comments help....
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I just bought an old cab with a WG 33K3001 VGA monitor in it (from 1998). It is a nice bright, beautiful display. The only problem is that it's slightly rotated (need to find the adjustment for this, although it doesn't bother me enough to move the beast).
Also, I have to set the video card to 61Hz, which helps with MAME skipping anyway. At 59.xxx or whatever Windows XP calls 60Hz, it won't sync properly when it warms up.
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Parts for the D9400 are also hard to get. I am looking for some S1D2500 ans S1D2147 I2C chips from Samsung which are used on the D9400 monitor to repair a couple of monitors I currently have in my shop.
Any suggestions where I might find them at a reasonable price.
Thanks
Bill
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And you tried Wells-Gardner parts department?
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And you tried Wells-Gardner parts department?
A lot of times when you go with the original manufacturer they rape you on price. Judging by his post he's looking for a better price.
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So has anyone out there been brave enough to try the WG 9800?
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I must ask.
I see lots of comments about digital monitors.
What of the K7400 series, it's analog?
I'm possibly in the market for a new monitor if I cannot fix mine and was going to go with the 7424 until I was told about this topic.
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The k7400 has been found to be reliable.
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For Neiman Displays west of the Mississippi, drop me a line.
Larry Rosenthal, President
Rosenthal Enterprises, Inc.
7000 W Firebird Dr
Glendale, AZ 85308-9424
Home: 623-561-2332
Cell: 602-228-7333
LRosent345@aol.com
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I have never really understood why arcade monitor manufacturers produce tri-sync monitors. Its lucky for us that they do, because they are great for Mame, when fed with a source which uses all the range of frequencies, such as an ArcadeVGA. But for the real intended market, ie coin-op cabinets, what is the need for a multi-sync monitor when the game only ever uses one resolution?
Multi-sync monitors are much more complex than fixed frequency and designing a horizontal output stage which will work from 15 to 31 or even 38 Khz is a real challenge especially on large screens and inevitably stresses components to the limit. Why do the coin-ops not stick with a simple, reliable, fixed-frequency monitor?
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I have never really understood why arcade monitor manufacturers produce tri-sync monitors. Its lucky for us that they do, because they are great for Mame, when fed with a source which uses all the range of frequencies, such as an ArcadeVGA. But for the real intended market, ie coin-op cabinets, what is the need for a multi-sync monitor when the game only ever uses one resolution?
Multi-sync monitors are much more complex than fixed frequency and designing a horizontal output stage which will work from 15 to 31 or even 38 Khz is a real challenge especially on large screens and inevitably stresses components to the limit. Why do the coin-ops not stick with a simple, reliable, fixed-frequency monitor?
They do stick with them. But for ease of being able to swap the monitor from one cab to another easily (say if one breaks on route) it does makes things easier - at least in theory.
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One operator I was talking to was enthusing about multisyncs because they (or at least the chassis) were relatively cheap, not that much more expensive than their CGA-only counterparts. However, I've never really known that particular operator to be the wisest guy, so I'm not sure that he has factored in long-term considerations.
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Multi-syncs relatively cheap???? He's full of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.
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May sound stupid Ken, but that is the case over here in the UK, Fix Sync monitor are more or less the same price if not MORE than a mulitsync :dunno
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Over here in the USA single resolution monitors are reasonably priced whereas multi-syncs are expensive.
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I have never really understood why arcade monitor manufacturers produce tri-sync monitors. Its lucky for us that they do, because they are great for Mame, when fed with a source which uses all the range of frequencies, such as an ArcadeVGA. But for the real intended market, ie coin-op cabinets, what is the need for a multi-sync monitor when the game only ever uses one resolution?
Multi-sync monitors are much more complex than fixed frequency and designing a horizontal output stage which will work from 15 to 31 or even 38 Khz is a real challenge especially on large screens and inevitably stresses components to the limit. Why do the coin-ops not stick with a simple, reliable, fixed-frequency monitor?
They do stick with them. But for ease of being able to swap the monitor from one cab to another easily (say if one breaks on route) it does makes things easier - at least in theory.
Yeah, this is what I guessed, if there are some EGA and 90s CGA games (vertical shooters, in particular) still around.
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Avoid Billabs, I paid 540 dollars for a used piece of S##t!!!!
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Does anyone have anything to say about the WG D9800? I'm about to drop 350 on this sucker and want to know if it's worth my time and money.
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Does anyone have anything to say about the WG D9800? I'm about to drop 350 on this sucker and want to know if it's worth my time and money.
There was a short discussion about it. The thread isn't that useful but you may want to ping the folks that had opinions about it.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=87655.msg920835#msg920835
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Anyone using the D9800? I just got my cabinet built and am now looking to buy the monitor. I'm seeing the D9800 online for around $375. Would really like to know what you all think and if anyone has used one before. Thanks in advance! ;)
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Avoid Billabs, I paid 540 dollars for a used piece of S##t!!!!
Which model?
Anyone using the D9800? I just got my cabinet built and am now looking to buy the monitor. I'm seeing the D9800 online for around $375. Would really like to know what you all think and if anyone has used one before. Thanks in advance! ;)
Look in the D9400 thread - or do a search.
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Anyone using the D9800? I just got my cabinet built and am now looking to buy the monitor. I'm seeing the D9800 online for around $375. Would really like to know what you all think and if anyone has used one before. Thanks in advance! ;)
I've had the D9800 in my MAME cabinet for a few months now. Running it with Soft15-Khz and it looks great. Geometry is not perfect on all resolutions and it seems like I'm constantly tweaking the picture settings, but I'm still just getting things set up. I'm hoping once I've had everything running for awhile, I won't be tweaking the picture as much.
One thing I have been wondering... am I killing this monitor by constantly switching resolutions on it? I've got my front end running at 640x480, and most of the games running at their native 15Khz resolutions, so over the course of an evening, there's a heck of a lot of switching going on. Would it be better to run the front end at 640x480i at 15Khz?
Now that I've gone native, I dont' think I could ever go back, but I don't want to have to buy a new one of these monitors every year because I'm stressing it too much.
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Well, I went the the WG website, and I found someone in Technical Support to email and ask about the resolution switching. I specifically asked about switching from VGA to CGA and back again 15-30 times a night. Here's his reply.
Hello Noah.
Talking to the Engineering Staff about this switching, if it would cause premature breakdown, they said it should not have any effect on the longevity of this monitor.
I actually find this hard to believe, but at this point, I've got no reason to think I'm going to kill my monitor by doing this.
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You may've missed the particularly recent discussion on this?
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Please forgive me if I'm missing something but, I'm a noob and looking for a decent monitor to put in my 1st cab build ever and am a little confused by a number of things. :dunno
By and large everyone agrees :
Digital Wells monitors = bad? (except for maybe D9800s?)
Analog Wells Monitors = good?
Other brands posted by Ken = Good
frequent Rez switching = bad?
Right?
How long can I expect my investment in 25" or larger arcade monitor to last before I have to break out the multi meter and soldering iron? (and pray that the HV shock monkey's don't get me ;D)
and on another total noob note ... can anyone give me some good advise on where to find a good deal on a good vga or better monitor. I'm in St. Paul MN. I'd really rather not spend top dollar if I can avoid it and really don't want to buy a really expensive door stop. :angry:
Thanks
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Ebay. For any kind of monitor. Look for a presentation monitor - they're multi-syncs.
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I have a line on a Kortex KTA-915 that I'm going to pick up this weekend ... now if I can figure out how to fix it while hiding from the HV shock monkeys :o
thanks for the suggestion
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So now it looks like Wells-Gardner doesn't want anything to do with CRT monitors.
They'd rather sell way OVERPRICED LCD monitors now.
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Really? These are still listed on their site:
D9400 (http://www.wellsgardner.com/products/details.asp?iCat=2&iSubCat=36)
D9800 (http://www.wellsgardner.com/products/details.asp?iCat=2&iSubCat=47) (though the 08s is listed as unavailable)
I don't really need one....but I'm inclined to get one.
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Really? These are still listed on their site:
D9400 (http://www.wellsgardner.com/products/details.asp?iCat=2&iSubCat=36)
D9800 (http://www.wellsgardner.com/products/details.asp?iCat=2&iSubCat=47) (though the 08s is listed as unavailable)
I don't really need one....but I'm inclined to get one.
Me too, and I would really like to see a review of this monitor! since I live in Denmark I'd have to fork out 700$ for this one... but it's really the only digital quad sync available in europe (through xarcade).
Would be great if someone who owns a D9800 would run Nokia Monitor Test on it and send a few pics :)
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At least one person here has one.....isucamper, maybe? Also want to mention people on ebay are selling at least the D9800 for the same as WG, but possibly less shipping, so look for those.
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Would be great if someone who owns a D9800 would run Nokia Monitor Test on it and send a few pics :)
I have a D9800 sitting in a box waiting to finish my cabinet build. But the only thing I have to drive it is a windows XP laptop right now. I'll download the Nokia Monitor Test software and try and snap a few pictures at different resolutions this weekend.
Any prefernce on picture sizes?
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Would be great if someone who owns a D9800 would run Nokia Monitor Test on it and send a few pics :)
I have a D9800 sitting in a box waiting to finish my cabinet build. But the only thing I have to drive it is a windows XP laptop right now. I'll download the Nokia Monitor Test software and try and snap a few pictures at different resolutions this weekend.
Any prefernce on picture sizes?
Hi, Thanks! I actually bought one yesterday.. if everything goes well I'll post a review too. I'd still like to see your pictures though, they can be compared.
I don't have any preferences on picture size, as long as they are clear.
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ok, 1st thing learned is I need to learn how to use my camera. But after setting the shutter speed to 1/40 of a second pictures came out much better.
2nd thing is I need to learn how to adjust the monitor. I added some pics to photobucket at:
http://s680.photobucket.com/albums/vv164/pmowry911/Monitor%20Test/
They resized the images down to 1024x768. But you can still see some of the artifacts. My monitor is a WGZ2798-U0FS08S. The top portion of the screen is skewed to the right a little bit. I only noticed it on the top right corner, but in the pictures I can see it a little on the left side as well. I think it can be adjusted, but I'm not sure what one of the many options I should use.
Overall though I an happy with the monitor. Just a few minor settings to tweak =)
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Looks nice! I already have a cab up and running, so I'll do some of the low res tests too :)
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hehe, yeah. I was able to set the res. down to 320x240, with no problem, but I could not see my menus or get to the icon to start the screentest app ;D It looked nice and clean, but I did not bother with pictures without the screentest up. I should have taken a few when playing packman.
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hehe, yeah. I was able to set the res. down to 320x240, with no problem, but I could not see my menus or get to the icon to start the screentest app ;D It looked nice and clean, but I did not bother with pictures without the screentest up. I should have taken a few when playing packman.
Got mine! .. turns out I got screwed by xgaming.. what I received was a D9400 WGM2794-U0FS05S .. not a D9800 as described.. since I live in Denmark it would be uneconomical to ship it back.. oh well, the chassis should be exactly the same.. but the tube might be different.
Generally I think it looks good (I'll post pictures as soon as I get it home to my cab), geometry is nice.. I find the tube to be a bit odd.. maybe it's normal for these kind of monitors, but its like the dpi is lower at the edges of the screen.. you can clearly see it when the monitor is off... Is it the same on your monitor? I can see on your picture with the readability test that the center text is very clear, but the edges is a bit harder to read.. is the picture out of focus, or is that what you see? .. I actually see that on mine.. .. it causes things to be more blurry at the edges than in the center. I've only tried it at 800x600.. I suspect its not a big problem at lower resolutions..
EDIT: After talking with Craig at xgaming it seems I did get the correct D9800 .. It is basically a D9400 with a new tube... and the D9400 they have on Wells Gardner now uses the new tube.. seems kinda strange to me to dump the new name and keep the old.. but it does make sense if the D9800 on wells gardners home page (WGZ2798-U0FS10S) is a different monitor.. it says RCD, while the "old" D9800 (WGZ2798-U0FS08S) is an RCA .. and so is the D9400 ..
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It does get blurred towards the corners. But I have not tried to adjust anything yet. My original picture was 4274x2848, I can email you a few if you like. I hesitate to post 4 to 5 Mb pictures to the forum. In that version you can see it blur near the corners and a convergence problem in the top right corner. But other than the tests screens when I'm looking for it. I have not noticed anything otherwise. So I'm actually looking for a faq or monitor guide that would say if you see problem x, adjust setting y. I actually like they way it looks now, and dont want to make it worse not knowing what I'm doing. but knowing there is a few minor things will drive me crazy in the long run.
BTW, I purchased mine from xgaming too. They had a better price when including shipping then WG did when shipping to louisiana.
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It does get blurred towards the corners. But I have not tried to adjust anything yet. My original picture was 4274x2848, I can email you a few if you like. I hesitate to post 4 to 5 Mb pictures to the forum. In that version you can see it blur near the corners and a convergence problem in the top right corner. But other than the tests screens when I'm looking for it. I have not noticed anything otherwise. So I'm actually looking for a faq or monitor guide that would say if you see problem x, adjust setting y. I actually like they way it looks now, and dont want to make it worse not knowing what I'm doing. but knowing there is a few minor things will drive me crazy in the long run.
BTW, I purchased mine from xgaming too. They had a better price when including shipping then WG did when shipping to louisiana.
Mine had good convergence too.. only a very slight problem in the to right corner too.. not noticable unless you use the test screens and look for it (I'm pretty sure no monitor is perfect).. .. when the monitor is turned off, go in close and see the brighter vertical lines on the screen... doesn't it have larger spacing between the lines at the left and right ends than in the middle? .. I'm pretty sure that's what gives the blur near the corners.. there would be no way to fix that in the settings.. since its how the tube is made. I'm a perfectionist too.. I notice it when I'm in windows.. like text in the corners are more blurry than in the center, but when I punch up a game I don't really notice it.. it does bother me a little though. Again I've only tested it at 800x600.
When I think about it, it could be due to the screen being flat... and not curved..
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Look up CRTs and you'll see that the dot pitch varies from center to outside.
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Look up CRTs and you'll see that the dot pitch varies from center to outside.
Yep, didn't know that. I had a look at my old 28" too.. and yep dot pitch is larger in the corners.. but I think its noticeable larger on my D9800/D9400 (whatever). Anyway after hooking it up to MAME with a ArcadeVGA2, the only time I notice it, is at 800x600 in windows. As far as gaming goes, this monitor is really nice! great colors! I thought my old Hantarex 25" was nice.. This thing is so crisp and vivid. I highly recommend!
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Good. Now to see its longevity.
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Thanks for all the info guys. I just ordered my D9800 from Xgaming so probably will get it in a week or so. One question are you all using a sheet of glass or plexiglass or whatever on top of your bezel? If so, where did you guy it at? I know someone mentioned they had a tinted one. Is this something I need to make on my own? I didn't see anything at Happs website as I'm order the bezel from them. Also will I need 2 people to get this installed properly? And finally, will I need to discharge the monitor before really handling it? This is my first CRT so this is all new territory for me. Thanks!
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People have used all sorts of materials. Do a search. Places of supply should be found within that, too.
You could make it yourself.
It will likely be easiest if you have help installing it.
You will not need to discharge it.
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Thanks for all the info guys. I just ordered my D9800 from Xgaming so probably will get it in a week or so. One question are you all using a sheet of glass or plexiglass or whatever on top of your bezel? If so, where did you guy it at? I know someone mentioned they had a tinted one. Is this something I need to make on my own? I didn't see anything at Happs website as I'm order the bezel from them. Also will I need 2 people to get this installed properly? And finally, will I need to discharge the monitor before really handling it? This is my first CRT so this is all new territory for me. Thanks!
If you using the holes in the frame to mount it to the cabinet using brackets you definitely need help.. the thing is heavy! I guess if you're making a stand of some sort , you could put it there yourself. Don't be too afraid of the high voltage thing.. just dont fumble around the back of the screen with your bare hands, just use the frame to lift and move it around. I think the only way you could get that high voltage through you is by sticking your hands under the thing that looks like a suction cup, I really don't see why anyone would want to do that.. Maybe the same people that stick their hands into dark holes they find in the forest.
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Thanks for all the info guys. I just ordered my D9800 from Xgaming so probably will get it in a week or so. One question are you all using a sheet of glass or plexiglass or whatever on top of your bezel? If so, where did you guy it at? I know someone mentioned they had a tinted one. Is this something I need to make on my own? I didn't see anything at Happs website as I'm order the bezel from them. Also will I need 2 people to get this installed properly? And finally, will I need to discharge the monitor before really handling it? This is my first CRT so this is all new territory for me. Thanks!
If you using the holes in the frame to mount it to the cabinet using brackets you definitely need help.. the thing is heavy! I guess if you're making a stand of some sort , you could put it there yourself. Don't be too afraid of the high voltage thing.. just dont fumble around the back of the screen with your bare hands, just use the frame to lift and move it around. I think the only way you could get that high voltage through you is by sticking your hands under the thing that looks like a suction cup, I really don't see why anyone would want to do that.. Maybe the same people that stick their hands into dark holes they find in the forest.
Thanks all for the info. I saw someone mention on another forum that the WD9800 has a self-discharging feature when it turns off? Is this true? I'll still be really careful but wondered about that statement. I should be getting it anyday now so we'll see how this thing turns out.
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Thanks all for the info. I saw someone mention on another forum that the WD9800 has a self-discharging feature when it turns off? Is this true? I'll still be really careful but wondered about that statement. I should be getting it anyday now so we'll see how this thing turns out.
I've read the same post somewhere.. don't know if it's true.
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Yes, all the digital multisyncs do. So do PC monitors, I think, as well as tube TVs in the last ten years.
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Just thought I'd share my experience with my WG D9200. Bought it in 2004, didn't install it until 2007. After less than a month of use, the screen went green on me - images still visible, but no red or blue components to the image. The OSD was displaying colors fine. Tried it with a different computer with the same problem. Tried the existing computer with a different monitor and colors were fine. Went into the service menu (holding down sel and down) and adjusted the color bias to no effect. I called WG and left a message for a tech. He called back and I walked him through what I already tried. Without hesitation he said that I needed a new IC103. Called one of their distributors from the WG website that happened to be around the corner from me and ordered 2 (they were < $4). Found and desoldered IC103, soldered in a socket (suspecting that this might happen again), popped in the new IC103 and everything is back to working (colors are fine). I'm disappointed that this happened and I'm no monitor tech, so I'm glad I was able to fix it. It definitely sounded like the tech had seen this problem enough times to be confident in his statement regarding needing a new IC103.
Do you need to re-program the IC103 or does a blank one work? I de-soldered and read the chip in my programmer and then filled it with ff's. It read/wrote ok, so i'm wondering if it's not the chip that's gone bad, so much as there's bad data in the chip causing it to only show green?
I guess I'll find out in the next day or so.
Hugh
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:applaud:
The third world country appears to be Malaysia, according to the label on the latest POS to come to my shop.
a 13" D7700 arrives new in box from Happ and blows as soon as it's powered up. Found the Horizontal output transistor blown. Replaced it. Still doesn't work. Call WG tech support. They tell me that they're having a problem with the oscillating frequency being improperly set at the factory, causing monitors to go down.
Just another example of poor quality control.
ive heard about this for a long time and it does make me wonder. But i currently own 2 U2000 monitors built in 1996 and 1997 respectively, and it seems to me that WG did build their reputation on providing a good product. one is still working as intended and the other the only problem it has wich i just posted a question about is that im installing a cap kit. but ever since they sold to chinese factories the quality isnt their judging by all the complaints i see about the new monitors coming out.
but anyways, my project has a makvision 25" hybrid i bought from quarterarcade on ebay.
ITs been running without a hiccup for 7 years now and counting, and best of all it doesnt have a stupid osd. its got a board with a nice long cable i mounted behind my monitor bezel for adjustments.
Btw, whats the opinions on the quality of makvision? ive never seen anything bad written about them. my opinion is their excellent.
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I'm guessing that american companies know about the potential quality issues in other countries, but are so worried about cash, and are just praying the products at least make it a few months or so. Which of course is ---smurfy---, and you'd think they'd know by now. Or, maybe they're duped by those companies abroad, who show they can produce a passable product, then skimp on the contract units.
Though I didn't have it very long, the D9400 I had was I'd say 95%, compared to other monitors I've seen.
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For those of you wanting a Nieman Video Display, I distribute them from Phoenix, AZ. Good prices. Good Service. Good monitor.
Larry
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What was the generic chip number type of IC103 for other people's reference so they can buy it too?
For the D9200 series monitor, IC103 is Wells-Gardner part # 086X0394-001 Serial EEPROM, 256x8, 8 pin Dip.
Generic numbers are 24C02, KS24C02, and AT24C02.
Jameco Electronics part # 108839 for the 24C02P and it's only 29 cents!
I believe you can sub a 24C04 which is larger memory capacity chip with same pinout, physical size, and current/voltage ratings.
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Just wanted to add that Larry, who sells the Neiman Displays noted a few posts above, does indeed sell them at a good price and with accurate and fair shipping costs. It was a pleasure doing business with him.
Troy
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hehe, yeah. I was able to set the res. down to 320x240, with no problem, but I could not see my menus or get to the icon to start the screentest app ;D It looked nice and clean, but I did not bother with pictures without the screentest up. I should have taken a few when playing packman.
Got mine! .. turns out I got screwed by xgaming.. what I received was a D9400 WGM2794-U0FS05S .. not a D9800 as described.. since I live in Denmark it would be uneconomical to ship it back.. oh well, the chassis should be exactly the same.. but the tube might be different.
Generally I think it looks good (I'll post pictures as soon as I get it home to my cab), geometry is nice.. I find the tube to be a bit odd.. maybe it's normal for these kind of monitors, but its like the dpi is lower at the edges of the screen.. you can clearly see it when the monitor is off... Is it the same on your monitor? I can see on your picture with the readability test that the center text is very clear, but the edges is a bit harder to read.. is the picture out of focus, or is that what you see? .. I actually see that on mine.. .. it causes things to be more blurry at the edges than in the center. I've only tried it at 800x600.. I suspect its not a big problem at lower resolutions..
EDIT: After talking with Craig at xgaming it seems I did get the correct D9800 .. It is basically a D9400 with a new tube... and the D9400 they have on Wells Gardner now uses the new tube.. seems kinda strange to me to dump the new name and keep the old.. but it does make sense if the D9800 on wells gardners home page (WGZ2798-U0FS10S) is a different monitor.. it says RCD, while the "old" D9800 (WGZ2798-U0FS08S) is an RCA .. and so is the D9400 ..
I know this is a little off-topic but, I just ordered a D9800 from xgaming myself and I live in Norway. Do you happen to know if these monitors are dual-voltage or do you need an adapter/converter for it to work with 220V? I.e. did you just get a US->Euro plug and plug it directly into the socket or do you need a voltage converter as well? Thanks! :)
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I know this is a little off-topic but, I just ordered a D9800 from xgaming myself and I live in Norway. Do you happen to know if these monitors are dual-voltage or do you need an adapter/converter for it to work with 220V? I.e. did you just get a US->Euro plug and plug it directly into the socket or do you need a voltage converter as well? Thanks! :)
They are dual voltage, I just used a US->EU plug converter.
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I know this is a little off-topic but, I just ordered a D9800 from xgaming myself and I live in Norway. Do you happen to know if these monitors are dual-voltage or do you need an adapter/converter for it to work with 220V? I.e. did you just get a US->Euro plug and plug it directly into the socket or do you need a voltage converter as well? Thanks! :)
They are dual voltage, I just used a US->EU plug converter.
Thanks for the info! :) I've been sick so the project has been a little delayed, but I am feeling good again today so I will continue working on the cab tomorrow.
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I know this is a little off-topic but, I just ordered a D9800 from xgaming myself and I live in Norway. Do you happen to know if these monitors are dual-voltage or do you need an adapter/converter for it to work with 220V? I.e. did you just get a US->Euro plug and plug it directly into the socket or do you need a voltage converter as well? Thanks! :)
They are dual voltage, I just used a US->EU plug converter.
Thanks for the info! :) I've been sick so the project has been a little delayed, but I am feeling good again today so I will continue working on the cab tomorrow.
Mine came with the US and EU voltage AC plug.
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BTW I cut off the US plug on the D9800 and mounted a euro plug there instead. Works great and I don't need to use an adapter.
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BTW I cut off the US plug on the D9800 and mounted a euro plug there instead. Works great and I don't need to use an adapter.
Excellent idea! ;D
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The D9400, another trouble-prone model from Wells-Gardner:
http://www.vendoramusements.com/bbs/nph-YaBB.pl?num=1272521185 (http://www.vendoramusements.com/bbs/nph-YaBB.pl?num=1272521185)
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@Ken,
I always respect your opinions. Just curious...you provided a link to an isolated example of one person's D9400...what else do you have that points to this being a trouble prone monitor in general? Just curious as I have two WG D9800 (which are based on this model) and have had no issues to date, also a lot of others here with D9800s with no issues.
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Those are game route operators on that forum. They have dozens of those monitors on their routes. They are seeing problems with the digital Wells-Gardner monitors.
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Ah that makes sense...just looking at the link makes it look like one person only. Thanks!
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Those are game route operators on that forum. They have dozens of those monitors on their routes. They are seeing problems with the digital Wells-Gardner monitors.
I can't get to their site - Ken do you know if they're vendoramusements.com is still in business?
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Yup, they are still around. I was just on their site a few minutes ago:
http://www.vendoramusements.com/bbs/YaBB.pl (http://www.vendoramusements.com/bbs/YaBB.pl)
I know their site has been experiencing sporadic outages the past couple of weeks. Also, some people in foreign countries have been unable to access the site at all. The owner became fed up with all the spam registrations and blocked many countries.
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Yup, they are still around. I was just on their site a few minutes ago:
http://www.vendoramusements.com/bbs/YaBB.pl (http://www.vendoramusements.com/bbs/YaBB.pl)
I know their site has been experiencing sporadic outages the past couple of weeks. Also, some people in foreign countries have been unable to access the site at all. The owner became fed up with all the spam registrations and blocked many countries.
Thanks Ken, this might lead me away from buying the 9400. Now if can only find a 27" TV with power return...
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I bought a D9200 3 years back (I imported from the US, I live in europe!!!). Read this thread a tad too late...
It was fried after 2 months. Had it fixed and up until now, I haven't had any major problems, but I'm not all that happy with the quality.
I am looking for alternatives as well (and dare I say it, yes that includes LCD alternatives), because of alle the bad stories I'm hearing.
CRT monitors are dying off, a shame for our hobby...
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ken
i chatted w/g the other day over the ks24c02 --pic problem
and the conculson is yes u put in a socket and a blank 24c02
the info will be written to it fresh
as to the tieing the wp line with a switch
is just about the right idea >after< the value's have been written to it
ed
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hi ppl
there is another piece of info i want to add to this thread to watch for in the w/g's
simple fact's
they drive the yoke's so hard that they tend to over heat and the plastic that hold's the yoke in place
will become brittle and break..>right at the neck<,this is a very bad
reason is because if they slip., and yes they will..u run the risk of shorting out and or binding the winding's
of the yoke..
your olny recourse here
is to "re-bond" the yoke,this is a multi step process
and u must inspect before u even move the monitor...most important
also a wise man would do it anyway's
if u ppl are interested
i will write a read-me to do this
ed
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well its been awhile
but here it is
ken to answer your question about the 24c02
u can use a 24lc04/08 in lue of
did it have the tie shirt
u just can not go under >2<
here is the scope of what will happen
once u replace the chip
u will hear the monitior click a few times more then normal,
this is normal as the main chip is pushing data back to the eeprom
once it's done,u will then have menu control back
set it up once >1< time...let it run
about 30 min's later u will see the menu again.>normal<
hit the mode button..walk away and let it burn in with a singal
if u want to tweak it then after the 30 min run do so
ed
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1 more tim bit for ya
as will a 24lc032
ed
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Ok...so here's my dilemma: A friend of mine gave me a 2 year old WG D-9200 to replace the PC monitor I have in my cabinet. My PC monitor is about to die and so I have been anxious to get it running, but in reading this thread have obvious concerns. Couple of questions from a complete noob in the monitor department:
- Does adding the Arcade VGA help to alleviate the risk associated with switching resolutions?
- If "no" to the above, should I just keeping my switching to a minimum, or this there another way to lessen the risk?
- The monitor did not come with any video cables, power chord, or instructions...any idea on what is needed to get it to run? WG's website seems to only cater to accessories associated with LCD's. Couldn't seem to easily find the correct cable / powe chords on happs.
I'd hate to ruin the monitor, but at the same time it does not do me any good just sitting on my work bench unused.
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Hi all
I'm new to the forums and to arcade monitors in general. I have a D9200 that started getting a dim picture. I had to turn up contrast and brightness all the way to 255 in order to get a semi decent picture. I had a tech help me install a cap kit last week, and the issue still remains. We ended up turning up the brightness on the flyback after removing the factory glue and that helped a little bit more, but the picture seems to have a reddish tint and too deep of gamma/contrast where black levels are crushing too much. I read here that it might be an eeprom issue?
I found this eeprom on jameco and was wondering if its the right part? - http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_697864_-1 (http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_697864_-1)
If its not, can someone please guide me to the proper part? Also, do I need to be concerned about retaining any backing up any data from the original eeprom (if that's even possible?) Or would I just need to install a blank one?
Thanks so much everyone!
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Updating this thread.
The Vendors Amusements website and forum has shut down. All my previous links to that site are now dead. :(
No word on if it will ever come back.
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the vendoramusements forum was a good trove of information but about a year ago it lost the user database or something and you couldn't sign in. (well at least I couldn't sign in)
:dunno if you gotta go, ya gotta go.
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the vendoramusements forum was a good trove of information but about a year ago it lost the user database or something and you couldn't sign in. (well at least I couldn't sign in)
:dunno if you gotta go, ya gotta go.
It's dead and gone. I know, it was my website.
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Updating this thread.
The Vendors Amusements website and forum has shut down. All my previous links to that site are now dead. :(
No word on if it will ever come back.
It's dead and buried. I buried it. Company went bankrupt.
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Hoping someone can help here...
I have a WG 27" D9200 that has just quit. Nothing happens at all when it's plugged in. Main fuse is good, so some component must have died. Is there a service manual for these things lurking out there on the 'net? I can learn chassis repair, but any tips I can pick up prior to that would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
-J