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Main => Monitor/Video Forum => Topic started by: SailorSat on May 06, 2007, 09:15:58 pm

Title: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 06, 2007, 09:15:58 pm
Hi.
I just want to say that I'm releasing "Soft-15KHz" to the public.

It's a simple tool programming videocard drivers to support 15KHz AND arcade resolutions.

As on post, I support ATI Catalyst, NVidia ForceWare, Matrox PowerDesk and various 3Dfx Voodoo3/4/5 drivers.

If you're intrested in details take a look at
http://www.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=8170 (http://www.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=8170)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on May 07, 2007, 03:31:35 pm
Thanks for coming out with this!  Although I wish you had started working on this a bit earlier.
Has any tried it out yet?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 07, 2007, 03:40:33 pm
Well my cab runs with two radeon 9200se without problems, and I've tried about 20 different video cards, and only a hand full made any problems.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on May 07, 2007, 04:26:42 pm
What about all the POST/bootup screens?  Aren't those in VGA (31khz) resolution?  Could that damage an arcade monitor?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 07, 2007, 04:31:13 pm
Yeah they are 31KHz, but to be honest, neither my Hantarex nor any of the TVs I had hooked up (those SCART RGB stuff rocks!) did blow up or take any damage.
They simply cannot sync to it.
You could either use a J-PAC to filter out the BIOS screens, or you could enjoy a doubled bios output (like that "feature" on the J-PAC).
A third, yet not that nice way would be to use a second (S3 Virge PCI or such) VGA Card for BIOS and OS loading screens, and then disable the S3 in Windows so your main Video Card takes over (in 15KHz).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on May 08, 2007, 02:44:37 pm
Can you have the 15Khz, 25Khz and 31Khz+ modes available at the same time? Good for use with monitors supporting 15Khz an up....
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 08, 2007, 03:01:06 pm
yes,
15khz has most resolutions, 25khz adds two modes and 31khz replaces the 15khz interlace modes with 31khz progressive ones.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Justin Z on May 08, 2007, 03:06:49 pm
yes,
15khz has most resolutions, 25khz adds two modes and 31khz replaces the 15khz interlace modes with 31khz progressive ones.
Hi Sailor Sat,

I have tried the Soft15khz program (downloaded all three small programs from your site).  However, when I attempt to add 15khz (or 25 or 31) using the program, I get an overflow error and the program closes.

Before it closes it manages to make backup registry entries and place them in the working directory.

I have a Radeon 9550 OEM and I'm running TinyXP.  Any suggestions on what might be causing the problem?

Cheers,

~Justin
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 08, 2007, 06:08:37 pm
Hm...
I'll need the registry backup to reproduce the error.
Guess you have some "OEM" Catalyst driver.
Should be nothing too big :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on May 08, 2007, 06:15:04 pm
yes,
15khz has most resolutions, 25khz adds two modes and 31khz replaces the 15khz interlace modes with 31khz progressive ones.

Ok Thanks.

Is there a limit to the number of custom resolutions? (I know there is via powerstrip).

Also for your double-scan avoiding resolutions e.g. 321 x 240 @ 60Hz, what is the actual displayed output? 320? 324? 328?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 08, 2007, 06:23:51 pm
321 size resolutions have 320 active pixels, same goes for 401 size resolutions.

Hm...
NVidia Cards are limited to 31 resolutions, because of a ForceWare Bug, but others should not.
There should be no practical limit, however I did never add more than ~40 resolutions.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Anubis_au on May 09, 2007, 02:38:22 am
I just had a nice adventure with quickres and my work PC... ran it, it went to 320x200 fine, but when I went back to my normal res it was upside down... has this occured to anyone else?

Anyway, after a fun fifteen minutes fixing windows, I am back to normal and able to ask the question that has come to mind.

Namely, what is the advantage of using this software, or PowerStrip? What I mean is, say you install this software, and your PC has heaps of new video modes that it can run. My question is, can a MAME front-end switch video modes / reses as it launches a game, so that the menu is whatever res you set it, but games play at the proper resolution, or do you need to manually set the res for the screen via control panel BEFORE launching MAME / your front end (in which case, whats the point?)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 09, 2007, 03:09:45 am
Any emulator (and Windows game) can switch the resolution itself.

I'm using ZSNES, ZiNC, WinUAE, Project64 and "Kega Fusion" on my Cab.
Also I'm running "Guilty Gear XX #Reload", and "World of Warcraft", although 800x600 is quite hard to read on 15KHz :)

*edit*
And off course I'm running MAME on it :)

*edit again*
I've attached a screenshot of WinUAEs options showing all available resolutions
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wpcmame on May 09, 2007, 08:12:50 am
A request:

Can you add an option to exclude some of the "standard" resolutions?
(or allow me to edit the entries before sending them to the registry)

I use the following setup:
- My monitor is configured to display ~288/576 lines which means that 240/480 line modes will not fill the entire height. In mame I fill the borders on left/right with artwork so therefore I want the 240 modes to be "letterboxed" (e.g. 288x240 instead of 240x240) and also tweak the start slightly so they are centered on the monitor.
- I prefer double-sized interlace resolutions since I don't like visible scanlines (specially not in the artwork).

This means that I don't want to use many of the "standard" resolutions but still want to use your excellent tool.

Also, how can you do 800x600x50Hz in 15KHz? On my Hantarex POLO I have not been able to go higher than 47Hz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 09, 2007, 10:45:21 am
Can you add an option to exclude some of the "standard" resolutions?
(or allow me to edit the entries before sending them to the registry)

<cut>

This means that I don't want to use many of the "standard" resolutions but still want to use your excellent tool.
Hm...
I'll see if I can add something like this.
Thinking about a "remove 321x240" line for custom15khz.txt.
Or shall I rather add an "Install Custom" Button so it only installs your custom resolutions?

Also, how can you do 800x600x50Hz in 15KHz? On my Hantarex POLO I have not been able to go higher than 47Hz.
Hm...
Don't know, just did it and it worked :)

Code: [Select]
modeline '800x600@50,546' 16,48 800 840 920 1040 600 602 605 627 interlace -hsync -vsync

*EDIT*
Okay, Build 31 will have a "remove X,Y" feature for the customXXkhz.txt files.
A "Install custom" button may follow sometime later :)
I also updated QuickRes (again) to ask if the new resolution is good. If it is NOT just hit ESC and it switches back.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Hurray Banana on May 10, 2007, 03:05:42 am
Hi, tried this program but I also get an overflow error like Justin did when adding 15KHz modes.

I'm running winXP pro, radeon 9600 and catalyst 6.1 driver

I've attached the reg backup created as it failed (zipped).

I hope I can get this to work.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 10, 2007, 03:07:20 am
I have tried the Soft15khz program (downloaded all three small programs from your site).  However, when I attempt to add 15khz (or 25 or 31) using the program, I get an overflow error and the program closes.

Hi, tried this program but I also get an overflow error like Justin did when adding 15KHz modes.

Cheers to you guys, I finaly figured out what's the problem.

Just the decimal separator.
In Germany "1,234" as integer would be 1.
At yours "1,234" as integer would be 1234, but "1.234" should be 1, so I just added a check for it.

Give Build 31 a try.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on May 10, 2007, 07:19:34 am
This definitely kicks a little ass! Once I get a new monitor for my current project, I can use my much more power X800-XT card instead of Ultimarcs nerdy little 9250 chipset. Hooray for innovation!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on May 10, 2007, 10:48:15 am
This is definite wiki material.  I added a preliminary page for this (just copied and pasted the project announcement basically) to the monitor/video area next to the powerstrip section.  Someone who knows what they're doing should fix my editing though LOL. :cheers:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: JoyMonkey on May 10, 2007, 12:31:02 pm
Good idea. I cleaned up the wiki markup a little for you.
http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Soft-15khz
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on May 10, 2007, 12:48:02 pm
Much better, thanks!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Hurray Banana on May 10, 2007, 01:42:50 pm
Just got back home and tried the 31 version, which works superb.

Many thanks, nice bit of software. :cheers:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: JoyMonkey on May 11, 2007, 06:20:16 pm
 :cheers:
I just got Soft-15KHz working with a GeForce2 MX400 card and Nvidia Forceware 93.71 !
I'm running WindowsXP with a desktop resolution of 512x240.

I'm using a horizontal WG 4600 monitor and I'd like to get vertical games like Pacman displaying without any hardware stretching. The resolution 352x288 would seem to be the best choice (since the regular Pacman resolution is 288 pixels high), but when I select this resolution the monitor's v-hold goes crazy. I tried the other resolutions that are 288 pixels high and get the same problem.
I don't know a whole lot about setting resolutions, but I'm guessing I need to adjust the 352x288 resolution somehow?
Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on May 11, 2007, 06:21:47 pm
Say I install this, and I use it while I have a standard computer CRT hooked up to the computer. Would there be any damage to the monitor if I selected a 15khz resolution? I just want to be sure, as I'll be setting up my dedicated MAME PC today or tomorrow, but I won't have an actual arcade monitor hooked up to it for a while.

I also see that the installer lets you choose what modes and resolutions to install. Say I want to install all modes and resolutions, do I click Install 15khz, restart, and then go on to the next one, or can I do them all in one go? If I do have to restart in between each install, what order should I go in, 15-25-31, or 31-25-15?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on May 11, 2007, 06:36:22 pm
:cheers:
I just got Soft-15KHz working with a GeForce2 MX400 card and Nvidia Forceware 93.71 !
I'm running WindowsXP with a desktop resolution of 512x240.

I'm using a horizontal WG 4600 monitor and I'd like to get vertical games like Pacman displaying without any hardware stretching. The resolution 352x288 would seem to be the best choice (since the regular Pacman resolution is 288 pixels high), but when I select this resolution the monitor's v-hold goes crazy. I tried the other resolutions that are 288 pixels high and get the same problem.
I don't know a whole lot about setting resolutions, but I'm guessing I need to adjust the 352x288 resolution somehow?
Can anyone point me in the right direction?

You have the correct resolution -- you just need to find the V-HOLD knob in your monitor.  I had an older arcade monitor that did this too.  Strangely once it warmed up, it stopped rolling.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 11, 2007, 07:30:12 pm
I'm using a horizontal WG 4600 monitor and I'd like to get vertical games like Pacman displaying without any hardware stretching. The resolution 352x288 would seem to be the best choice (since the regular Pacman resolution is 288 pixels high), but when I select this resolution the monitor's v-hold goes crazy. I tried the other resolutions that are 288 pixels high and get the same problem.
I don't know a whole lot about setting resolutions, but I'm guessing I need to adjust the 352x288 resolution somehow?
Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Yeah, It's those 50 Hz, like ahofle said you'll need to turn V-HOLD (sometimes called V-FREQ) down until it snaps in, and hopefully, your menu resolution still works with 60Hz :)

Say I install this, and I use it while I have a standard computer CRT hooked up to the computer. Would there be any damage to the monitor if I selected a 15khz resolution? I just want to be sure, as I'll be setting up my dedicated MAME PC today or tomorrow, but I won't have an actual arcade monitor hooked up to it for a while.
Most old (and I mean really old) should display two half images, at least my 15" NEC does =)
Most newer CRTs should either switch off, or display a "Out of scan frequency" error.
It's quite impossible to destroy a VGA-CRT this way :)

I also see that the installer lets you choose what modes and resolutions to install. Say I want to install all modes and resolutions, do I click Install 15khz, restart, and then go on to the next one, or can I do them all in one go? If I do have to restart in between each install, what order should I go in, 15-25-31, or 31-25-15?
You can click in any order you want, the programm installs 15KHz (if enabled), then 25KHz (if enabled), and lastly 31KHz (if enabled).
So if you install 25khz, then reboot, then click 15KHz, it will reset the adapter, then install 15khz, and then install 25KHz modes.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 11, 2007, 07:30:43 pm
*EDIT* merde... double post Oo...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: JoyMonkey on May 11, 2007, 07:46:09 pm
Thanks! I'll try playing with my v-hold knob next time I test it out.
I have a few other video cards that I can try also, I'll test out each one and post my results in your test thread (http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=7925&page=2).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 11, 2007, 07:48:17 pm
A totaly off-topic question...
Anyone around who has ever seen a XGI Volari V5 oder V8 in real life?
I simple can't find any, only those V3...
*merde*

@JoyMonkey
Go Go Go :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: JoyMonkey on May 11, 2007, 07:57:52 pm
I've never heard of those Volari cards. Did Nvidia or Ati buy XGI out or something?
There's one V8 on eBay right now, but they do seem very rare.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 11, 2007, 08:08:21 pm
They're still in bussiness, although most like with integrated stuff for notebooks and settop boxes.

I'm trying to get my hand on a V5 or V8 for quite some time, but can only find V3 cards.
Sure they're quite rare like a matrox parhelia... who really buys matrox today?

Going to take a look on eBay :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: steak on May 11, 2007, 10:10:04 pm
Thank you for this awesome tool!  ;D
I am using a 27" TV connected by component cables to a dvi to component on my Nvidia Gforce6200, can I use this program to be able to get a better video quality?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Hurray Banana on May 12, 2007, 05:12:31 am
Say I install this, and I use it while I have a standard computer CRT hooked up to the computer. Would there be any damage to the monitor if I selected a 15khz resolution? I just want to be sure, as I'll be setting up my dedicated MAME PC today or tomorrow, but I won't have an actual arcade monitor hooked up to it for a while.

JJ, I have been messing with this yesterday and I've got a normal Multisync PC monitor on the vga connector of my card (Radeon 9600) and my Scart TV (RGB) hooked up to my DVI port (through a VGA convertor and a hacked VGA cable). I setup the TV to clone the pc monitor.

When I have a standard VGA rez 640x480 the PC monitor displays fine and the TV interlaces. If I select a true 15KHz mode the PC Monitor just goes blank (out of range) and the TV shows the de-interlaced image. I haven't had a problem with the PC monitor or the TV duffing up. If I select a rez not suitable for the TV then it just doesn't sync (like Sailor Sat says). I couldn't guarantee that all monitors and TV's would be happy but this is my experience.

The only problem I did have is when I selected a resoultion (i think it was 848 x 480) and neither the PC monitor or TV could sync. I then had to go into safe mode and uninstall the video card to reset the driver.

Hope this helps!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 12, 2007, 06:27:00 am
The only problem I did have is when I selected a resoultion (i think it was 848 x 480) and neither the PC monitor or TV could sync. I then had to go into safe mode and uninstall the video card to reset the driver.

You should give the newer QuickRes a try, If you switch to a resolution like that, simply hit ESC on the keyboard and it goes back.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on May 12, 2007, 08:09:58 am
The only problem I did have is when I selected a resoultion (i think it was 848 x 480) and neither the PC monitor or TV could sync. I then had to go into safe mode and uninstall the video card to reset the driver.

Couldn't you have just booted into Safe Mode and uninstalled/reinstalled your drivers from there?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 12, 2007, 09:01:49 am
I'd rather use VGA-Mode than Safemode, then simple start Soft-15KHz and select "uninstall" :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Hurray Banana on May 12, 2007, 01:20:40 pm
The only problem I did have is when I selected a resoultion (i think it was 848 x 480) and neither the PC monitor or TV could sync. I then had to go into safe mode and uninstall the video card to reset the driver.

Couldn't you have just booted into Safe Mode and uninstalled/reinstalled your drivers from there?
I'd rather use VGA-Mode than Safemode, then simple start Soft-15KHz and select "uninstall" :)

Both valid methods, I have now downloaded the updated quick rez to get out of any unsuitable rez changes.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: JoyMonkey on May 15, 2007, 08:39:10 am
I tried out a Radeon 7500 with Soft-15KHz last night and it went much more smoothly than the two old GeForce cards I tried before. The picture looks better and a few resolutions that didn't work correctly with the GeForce cards (like the custom 292x240 resolution I tried out for Robotron) worked perfectly without any adjustments.

The GeForce cards I tried were a GeForce2 MX440 and a Visiontek GeForce3. Maybe newer Nvidia cards have better results?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on May 15, 2007, 06:33:34 pm
From what I remember, it said Intel graphics sets aren't compatible, yet, right? Is this going to any kind of priority?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on May 15, 2007, 09:56:47 pm
I'm a little confused by resolution selection, and making sure that a game picks the right resolution. What I mean is,  several resolutions are duplicated in the different Khz modes, i.e. 640x480 can be selected in either 15khz mode or 31khz mode. When setting resolutions via mame ini's or the Quickres taskbar, all it lists is the resolution though, not the khz mode. So how do I make sure a game is selecting the 15khz-mode resolution and not the 31khz-mode resolution?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: steak on May 15, 2007, 11:26:28 pm
Install the 15khz modes only and delete the INI of the game you want to try.
I am also running on a TV w/ a Gforce 6200 and component cables... you can see some pics here on the last page http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=60757.80 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=60757.80)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on May 15, 2007, 11:49:44 pm
Yeah, but I still want the 25khz and 31 khz modes for the few games that use them and FE usage.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: steak on May 15, 2007, 11:59:38 pm
then just install them all, your emulator will pick the best resolution now available thx to Soft-15
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on May 16, 2007, 12:44:52 am
Yeah, I know that. I'm just interested in finding out how it decides to pick X resolution in 15khz mode when X resolution could also be picked in 25 or 31khz modes as well.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Hurray Banana on May 16, 2007, 03:13:27 am
Yeah, I know that. I'm just interested in finding out how it decides to pick X resolution in 15khz mode when X resolution could also be picked in 25 or 31khz modes as well.

I was wondering this as well, it is impossible to tell if its 15Khz 640x480 or 31KHz until its selected and the display will either sync or not.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 16, 2007, 05:09:57 am
I'm a little confused by resolution selection, and making sure that a game picks the right resolution. What I mean is,  several resolutions are duplicated in the different Khz modes, i.e. 640x480 can be selected in either 15khz mode or 31khz mode. When setting resolutions via mame ini's or the Quickres taskbar, all it lists is the resolution though, not the khz mode. So how do I make sure a game is selecting the 15khz-mode resolution and not the 31khz-mode resolution?
Ah... now I got it :)

The "lowres" (less than 350 lines) Modes (say 384x240) are not doubled and only available in 15KHz.
The "medres" (between 350 and 440 lines) resolutions are only available in 25KHz.
The "highres" (more than 440 lines), can either be 15KHz or 31KHz, however, If you choose 15+31KHz the same time, the 15KHz modes will be REMOVED and only the 31KHz will be added.

So there is be only 1 Frequency (either 15/25 or 31 KHz) per resolution.

There is a simple rule.
15KHz is basic.
25KHz overwrites 15KHz.
31KHz overwrites 25KHz.

So if you got a 640x480 definition for every Frequency, the 31KHz one will be the one selectable in Windows, and the otheres will be droped and cannot be selected.

--

IF you find ALL your resolutions beings doubled to 31KHz (or more) you most likely got an NVidia card and have more than 32 resolutions defined. This is due to a Bug in the ForceWare and can only be corrected by using less resolutions, most likely by disabling some unusual 15KHz resolutions.
(remove xx,yy in customZZkhz.txt)

resolutions that I would "remove":

remove 240,240
(custom15KHz.txt, games will use 256,240)

remove 448,384
(custom25KHz.txt, games will use 512,384)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on May 16, 2007, 05:42:42 am
I actually have an ATI. I haven't been having any problems, I was just curious as to how it worked. I didn't forsee problems either, as I understand most arcade games don't even use the higher resolutions. Thanks for the info though, clears it all up!

Speaking of that though, is there any sort of info out there about what range of resolutions most games fall under, and what few particular games have used the higher resolutions, or the oft unused 25khz mode?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 16, 2007, 06:25:09 am
hm...
yeah

export mames data to mame.xml and use some simple code to read it in.
i used something like that for an "tripple 15khz project", however did not finish it right now.
i only have a list of all resolutions used by mame, but not how many games use it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 16, 2007, 06:31:14 am
I've attached the list, however I don't know how usefull it will be :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: 2600 on May 16, 2007, 08:54:20 am
If you are using 15kHz, 25kHz, and 31kHz then most likely you have some sort of Multi-sync monitor.  Don't most of them have an OSD(on screen display).  The D9200 does and if you bring up the OSD, it will tell you the refresh rate the monitor is running at.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on May 16, 2007, 08:50:50 pm
Aren't refresh rate and the khz mode the monitor is running in two different things?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on May 16, 2007, 09:45:02 pm
Just for informational purposes: I tried out my PIII with an old 64mb Radeon 7000 using .69. I had some bad flicker in Windows, and a little bit in game - both of which I'm sure could've been fixed but I didn't bother - otherwise, though it seemed to operate a little differently than the avga, it seemed to function just fine. Neat app.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Anubis_au on May 16, 2007, 11:42:49 pm
Aren't refresh rate and the khz mode the monitor is running in two different things?

Nope, they are mathematically linked.

The vertical line rate times the refresh rate = the output line frequency

eg PAL tv: 625 scan lines x25 frames/sec (50 fields actually) = line frequency of 15.625kHz

NTSC tv: 525 scan lines x30 frames/sec (60 fields) = 15.75kHz line frequency

640x480 at 65Hz = 31kHz

etc

That's why its not enough to simply reduce the output resolution from a video card, because if its still clocked at a 31kHz line freq, the reduced res means a massively increased refresh rate, which might do damage to your monitor, or at best not work. That's why you need to reduce the line freqency to 15KHz via this software, or use an ArcadeVGA etc.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on May 17, 2007, 02:00:00 am
That's what I meant, that although they're linked their not directly the same thing. Related to 2600's post, you can pull up the OSD on a monitor, but it would just display the refresh rate and not what mode you were necessarily in.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: 2600 on May 17, 2007, 08:58:18 am
Refresh Rate, Scan Rate, line frequency, or whatever is your naming flavor.  There are two components a horizontal and a vertical.  Both are listed in the OSD by the D9200 and almost every SVGA monitor or LCD I've used.

Example picture is in this Retroblast Article, titled "720 running at 25kHz":
http://retroblast.com/reviews/UltimarcArcadeVGA2-1292007-01.html (http://retroblast.com/reviews/UltimarcArcadeVGA2-1292007-01.html)

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on May 17, 2007, 10:08:16 am
Weird. Just my luck that over the years owning several CRT's, I can't recall any I owned that displayed the mode.

Good to know though.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on May 17, 2007, 02:07:48 pm
Probly just didn't notice. In one case, the other day, my PC monitor wouldn't dispaly the resolution. Just the vertical scan. Sometimes, say when I pick a mame resolution that the AVGA supports, my multi-sync will show the scanning rates but will say 'user mode' for resolution. What I don't understand is why the resolution - generally, one below VGA - I have Mame set for does not match what the monitor's OSD says in-game.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ldl on May 17, 2007, 06:49:33 pm
Are you guys saying that this proggie can be used with a regular tv (no scart)? I would hate to blow my tv.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Hurray Banana on May 18, 2007, 03:43:01 am
You need to have a hacked VGA cable to an RGB input on your TV, i.e. SCART, it won't work through anything else.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ldl on May 18, 2007, 09:11:39 am
Thanks. Confusing but thanks. The reason I asked is because I have the same tv thats mentioned in the top post (Insignia with component) and nothing is mentioned about a scart connection. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Hurray Banana on May 18, 2007, 09:14:38 am
SCART is a European standard that offers component (RGB) input through a single 21 pin connector.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: steak on May 18, 2007, 09:34:02 am
Are you guys saying that this proggie can be used with a regular tv (no scart)? I would hate to blow my tv.

It works with my insignia.. check post http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=60757.msg676857#msg676857 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=60757.msg676857#msg676857)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: moriartyds on May 18, 2007, 01:24:32 pm
You need to have a hacked VGA cable to an RGB input on your TV, i.e. SCART, it won't work through anything else.

What about a DVI to RGB input on TV?  Will that work?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on May 18, 2007, 02:41:44 pm
Do a search - DVI to component. Another thing (or set of things) for the wiki.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ldl on May 18, 2007, 02:56:22 pm
Are you guys saying that this proggie can be used with a regular tv (no scart)? I would hate to blow my tv.

It works with my insignia.. check post http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=60757.msg676857#msg676857 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=60757.msg676857#msg676857)


I have read all the related post and I am currently using ATI 9500 with DVI adapter. I simply just would like to know if this is enough. None of the post I read spell this out in black & white.
 :dunno I am a rookie and don't like to assume. :dunno

Edit
Steak,  I owe you an appology. I re-read the post you directed me to and yes the answer is there in black & white. Off to testing for me now.
Thanks goes out to everyone for your input.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: moriartyds on May 19, 2007, 09:26:44 pm
Do a search - DVI to component. Another thing (or set of things) for the wiki.

I already have the DVI to component, what I'm asking is if it works with Soft 15 and a TV.  I'm pretty sure that answer isnt' in the WIKI or the search function.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ldl on May 19, 2007, 10:31:48 pm
Do a search - DVI to component. Another thing (or set of things) for the wiki.

I already have the DVI to component, what I'm asking is if it works with Soft 15 and a TV.  I'm pretty sure that answer isnt' in the WIKI or the search function.

Yes. That is all I am using. Read the above post
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Glaine on May 22, 2007, 12:44:00 pm
I'm only using the S-vid port on my nvidia card on an insignia 19 inch TV and it's been working great so far.

I think what may be confusing some people is that me and steak are using TVs that we could already interface with using video cards and we are only using this program to further increase mame graphics. People with arcade monitors are in a different boat as they obviously have to be even more careful about what settings they send to their monitors.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on May 22, 2007, 01:22:01 pm
Does this program have any effect when using S-video or Composite out of your graphics card?

As you gfx card is already creating a 15Khz signal for you....
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 22, 2007, 01:35:50 pm
Uhm... It "should" change something...
never tried it :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ChicagoDave on May 25, 2007, 09:50:34 am
This sounds like a great tool, but I'm still a little confused.

Basically, I am using an ATI 9500 Pro with S-Video out to connect to a 27" Mitsubishi CS27MX1 TV via the S-Video.

My questions are:

1) Will this program adjust the frequencies via the S-Video output or is the S-Video output always forced to standard NTSC?
2) If it does send the frequencies, can they damage a TV?
3) Does someone have pictures of the results using this connection method?

Before and after pictures would be nice.

Also, Steak, it would be nice to see some before and after pictures of your results, not just "after" pics.

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on May 30, 2007, 03:47:08 pm
Got it working today.  ATI Radeon card of some kind.  Only allows some kind of freaky resolution like 700x480 or something.  Quite flickery.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ChicagoDave on May 30, 2007, 05:25:49 pm
Got it working today.  ATI Radeon card of some kind.  Only allows some kind of freaky resolution like 700x480 or something.  Quite flickery.

What configuration are you running?  TV (S-Video, Component, etc.) , Arcade Monitor, Computer Monitor, etc.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on May 30, 2007, 05:27:16 pm
Arcade monitor of course; that's what this tool is made for.  A 13" K7000.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ChicagoDave on May 30, 2007, 05:30:20 pm
Arcade monitor of course; that's what this tool is made for.  A 13" K7000.

Thanks, I was just curious.  There is another thread on this same topic in the "Main" forum with people trying to get it to work on a TV.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on May 31, 2007, 03:05:00 am
I was messing around with an ATI 7000, on my Billabs. There's some flicker on the desktop at VGA and XGA. Also tried an Nvidia 6200 and same thing. Game-wise, some ran, some didn't. In the latter, either the monitor would cut out/power down, or it would keep doing that suction noise like it was trying but couldn't do it. The thing was, some of the classics - like Pac-man, or rather that native resolution - this happened with. Some others, too, though.

I noticed a couple other things, too: the monitor doesn't make that high-pitched sound like it does with the AVGA, nor is the image as bright as with it, either. (And it doesn't do that schizo thing, but a much smoother transition, when it comes out of a game.) I actually like this better.

Peale and you monitor tech folk know what's happening, here?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on May 31, 2007, 09:05:12 am
I noticed a couple other things, too: the monitor doesn't make that high-pitched sound like it does with the AVGA, nor is the image as bright as with it, either. (And it doesn't do that schizo thing, but a much smoother transition, when it comes out of a game.) I actually like this better.

Peale and you monitor tech folk know what's happening, here?

Sound indicated some variety of sync issue.  Note that I said issue, not problem.  Brightness may be from not having a video amp, or possibly the AVGA is tuned for a brighter picture. 

Just my speculation.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on May 31, 2007, 02:50:42 pm
Got it working today.  ATI Radeon card of some kind.  Only allows some kind of freaky resolution like 700x480 or something.  Quite flickery.

So you couldn't run any real CGA resolutions like 320x240, 288x224, etc? 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on May 31, 2007, 03:40:15 pm
Got it working today.  ATI Radeon card of some kind.  Only allows some kind of freaky resolution like 700x480 or something.  Quite flickery.

So you couldn't run any real CGA resolutions like 320x240, 288x224, etc? 

I didn't try it with Mame, Windows only.  Window would only allow those resolutions.

I was trying this quickly while my daughter was down for a nap.  She woke up early, so I didn't get the level of testing I wanted.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on May 31, 2007, 03:53:56 pm
Thanks, Peale. Obviously Andy would know, but I hadn't gotten that far, yet.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: JoyMonkey on May 31, 2007, 04:02:31 pm
So you couldn't run any real CGA resolutions like 320x240, 288x224, etc? 

I didn't try it with Mame, Windows only.  Window would only allow those resolutions.


That's weird. Every resolution for whichever setting you chose in Soft15Khz should show up in Windows display settings or Quickres. So if you chose 15Khz in Soft15Khz, you should see 256x240, 321x240, 321x256 etc. etc.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on May 31, 2007, 05:31:17 pm
So you couldn't run any real CGA resolutions like 320x240, 288x224, etc? 

I didn't try it with Mame, Windows only.  Window would only allow those resolutions.


That's weird. Every resolution for whichever setting you chose in Soft15Khz should show up in Windows display settings or Quickres. So if you chose 15Khz in Soft15Khz, you should see 256x240, 321x240, 321x256 etc. etc.

I couldn't use QuickRes because I didn't have a mouse hooked up.  But when I looked in display properties (all modes) there were only four resolutions listed.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on May 31, 2007, 06:01:09 pm
The windows display panel will only display resolutions down to 800x600 in XP, and I believe 640x480 in 98. To access those lower, 15khz Mame resolutions, you will HAVE TO use a program like Quickres.

Well, you'll need it to manually change to those resolutions. You can always write specific ini's for your games that tell Mame what res to launch the game in.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on May 31, 2007, 06:07:47 pm
The windows display panel will only display resolutions down to 800x600 in XP, and I believe 640x480 in 98. To access those lower, 15khz Mame resolutions, you will HAVE TO use a program like Quickres.

I went into advanced options to display all available modes.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on May 31, 2007, 06:53:54 pm
I went into advanced options to display all available modes.

It still won't display those lower resolutions in the windows display panel.

Trust me, you have to have something like Quickres to manually change to resolutions lower than 640x480.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: JoyMonkey on May 31, 2007, 08:25:44 pm
The 15khz resolutions are all there in display panel on my XP (SP2) test machine  :dunno
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on May 31, 2007, 08:45:24 pm
Weird, I can use them, but I can only manually change them via Quickres.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on May 31, 2007, 11:26:02 pm
Well, are any of you who have it working having any issues like I mentioned above (games not imaging and the monitor just making a sucking noise)? This happens with Pac-man with res set to auto, or 288x240. With the avga, auto works just fine for either orientation. Or the desktop flicker for SVGA or XGA?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 01, 2007, 04:03:53 am
Hm...
Even if your monitor couldn't sync to a resolution you should at least see something (even if its only white flashes from MAME's "Press OK"-screen).

As for brightness, the display should be as bright as with an ArcadeVGA.

For the flicker with interlaced resolution, well, that may change from chipset to chipset.
My Matrox Millenium (1st model) card flickers in 640x480, whereas my Radeons (neither the 7000 nor the 9200se) don't.

However you said you got these issues with an Radeon 7000 and an GeForce 6200, so I'm quite puzzled right now.
I'll recheck later with my 7000.

As for the resolutions, Windows should not display any resolution lower than 800x600 in WindowsXP Display properties (640x480 in 98/2000), and nothing lower than 640x480 in Windows Advanced Display. At least it doesn't for me ;).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on June 01, 2007, 04:03:37 pm
SS: yeah, on either card, I get flicker at resolutions above VGA. Also, some resolutions won't display anything - the monitor just tries to sync but nothing happens - or the monitor just shuts down.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on June 02, 2007, 04:43:20 pm
I swear, every time I start in on a project, my daughter wakes from her nap.  Today was no exception!

But I did sneak in a few moments to play with this before she did.  This time I hooked up a mouse, turned on QuickRes and tuned my resolution to 321x240.  Flicker gone.

Fired up Robotron.  F'n sweet!  So was Metal Slug, Bubbles and Defender.

Couldn't get Kymaera to launch, but I suspect a configuration issue.  It's quirky when paths aren't declared correctly.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: rockmes on June 10, 2007, 03:20:14 am
lm impressed with this software. just tried it with 15 khz 29" monitor and was using the lastest 9200 version of the ArcadeVga card , but now using Nvidia 6600 gt with recommended forceware drivers - i think 78.01 , and l must say it kills all over the ArcadeVga card . Of course l have a j-pac connect so the bios screens come up in split screen but once windows desktop kicks in all is sweet. lm using the 15 khz setting in the software and running 800x600 res with no flickering. the image is brighter and sharper and it also means l can play some of the lastest pc games which l couldnt previously. Thanks to the author ,bloody unbelievable stuff.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on June 11, 2007, 10:44:59 pm
l must say it kills all over the ArcadeVga card

I don't understand how a 15khz signal from one card would be different than a 15 khz signal from another?  ???  How exactly does it 'kill all over' the arcadeVGA?

Quote
lm using the 15 khz setting in the software and running 800x600 res with no flickering.

It's able to magically display interlaced video modes on CGA monitors without flickering? :laugh2: 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on June 11, 2007, 11:12:23 pm
l must say it kills all over the ArcadeVga card

I guess he just means that now we can use much more powerful cards than what the AVGA offers.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: rockmes on June 12, 2007, 12:25:55 am
l must say it kills all over the ArcadeVga card

I don't understand how a 15khz signal from one card would be different than a 15 khz signal from another?  ???  How exactly does it 'kill all over' the arcadeVGA?

Quote
lm using the 15 khz setting in the software and running 800x600 res with no flickering.

It's able to magically display interlaced video modes on CGA monitors without flickering? :laugh2: 

Before you laugh try it out . lm telling you -no flickering, no bull.
l suppose lm using this res cos of my pc applications require it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: rockmes on June 12, 2007, 12:28:36 am
l must say it kills all over the ArcadeVga card

I guess he just means that now we can use much more powerful cards than what the AVGA offers.

true .
But on my montior the current setup looks way better than with the 9200 AGP version of the ArcadeVGA. And dont get me wrong the ArcadeVGA rocks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on June 12, 2007, 01:16:37 am
Quote
lm using the 15 khz setting in the software and running 800x600 res with no flickering.

It's able to magically display interlaced video modes on CGA monitors without flickering? :laugh2: 

Before you laugh try it out . lm telling you -no flickering, no bull.
l suppose lm using this res cos of my pc applications require it.

You are saying that with an ArcadeVGA/800x600/CGA monitor you get flickering and with Soft15khz/800x600/CGA monitor you get no flickering?  What you are describing is not possible and is probably going to mislead people.  Regarding the superior image quality compared to the ArcadeVGA, maybe you'd be kind enough to post some before and after pictures?  I'm genuinely curious to see what the difference is.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: rockmes on June 12, 2007, 04:37:08 am
Quote
lm using the 15 khz setting in the software and running 800x600 res with no flickering.

It's able to magically display interlaced video modes on CGA monitors without flickering? :laugh2: 

Before you laugh try it out . lm telling you -no flickering, no bull.
l suppose lm using this res cos of my pc applications require it.

You are saying that with an ArcadeVGA/800x600/CGA monitor you get flickering and with Soft15khz/800x600/CGA monitor you get no flickering?  What you are describing is not possible and is probably going to mislead people.  Regarding the superior image quality compared to the ArcadeVGA, maybe you'd be kind enough to post some before and after pictures?  I'm genuinely curious to see what the difference is.
na l wasnt saying that you get a flickering picture with the ArcadeVga card at 800x600,
what l was trying to say after reading a few post ealier that lm not getting a flickery picture as some have been getting.
l seem to be getting a clearer and brighter picture with this software and video card and the drivers specified.
l will try and do some pics of the difference when l get the chance
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wpcmame on June 12, 2007, 10:31:50 am
It's able to magically display interlaced video modes on CGA monitors without flickering? :laugh2: 
You have to remember that most of the flickering in high resolutions doesn't come from the interlace. The flicker occurs when neighbouring lines have a high contrast difference.

Most of the time this happens when you show computer images like the windows desktop. Modern 3D games and movies does not flicker much in interlace. Low res arcade games with doubled resolutions (without filter) flickers even less.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on June 12, 2007, 01:18:09 pm
Right.
I read his post as a comparison between the ArcadeVGA and Soft15khz and didn't want people to think they would not get flicker in Windows with Soft15khz compared to the ArcadeVGA. 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on June 12, 2007, 02:21:22 pm
Yeah, this is how I read it, too. I don't know how he wasn't getting flicker at higher resolutions (which is why the tri-sync for the avga is handy, but apparently proprietary). I was, with different cards, as well as the desktop geometry being weird in XGA such that it'd be a 'scrolling' desktop. Changing to SVGA helped this, but not optimal cos I can do XGA. There are also other, slight differences, that arise cos the detailed timings, I would guess, are different.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Miketek on June 13, 2007, 03:18:01 am
I havent yet had the time to download this app and try it.

Is this considered to be better than Powerstrip in any way?

Here is the problem Im trying to solve:

Running via JPAC from a Geforce MX440 video card. Using Powerstrip with its default arcade res  "640x480i - arcade" (this defaults to 16khz which didnt not work for me, however when I set it to 15khz it works.. )

On this setting I can play the few games Ive tried just fine on my arcade VGA monitor (usually using Strider as a test Rom) BUT the windows desktop is horribly blurry, and Im loading the roms basically by memory out of my favorites folder in MAME32.

After some tweaking of resolution, I can get the windows desktop looking very clear, but then its split down the middle.. Only when I go back to "640x480i - arcade" and set to 15khz do I get a single usable screen again, which as I stated above looks fine once the game starts but is horribly blurry in windows (XP)

Will Soft-15khz or QuickRes work better for me in this regard than Powerstrip? Ill probably have some time later tomorrow to mess around with it some more, but any advice, suggestions to work with would be great! My goal = clear XP desktop without a split down the middle!



 8)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joystick Jerk on June 13, 2007, 03:36:32 am
Powerstrip can probably do exactly what this prog does with sufficient tweaking, but this prog is dead simple to use. Install it and.... well, that's it really. Everything is done at the driver level, so you don't really have to tweak anything.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on June 13, 2007, 03:37:48 pm
Will Soft-15khz or QuickRes work better for me in this regard than Powerstrip? Ill probably have some time later tomorrow to mess around with it some more, but any advice, suggestions to work with would be great! My goal = clear XP desktop without a split down the middle!



 8)

Yeah, as JJ said...BUT:

1.it seems you're using powerstrip to force VGA resolution.

2. quickres is just an app that lets you select resolutions from the taskbar; it's not a driver or set of drivers.

3. we don't know what monitor you're using and what it's capable of. I'm not sure you know.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Miketek on June 13, 2007, 08:28:03 pm

1.it seems you're using powerstrip to force VGA resolution.

I beleive I have to, without powerstrip I couldnt see a thing once windows booted ( I could see the split screen at post/bios etc with the Jpac set to 15khz and 31khz jumpers..


3. we don't know what monitor you're using and what it's capable of. I'm not sure you know.

Here's a thread (with pics) I made on the monitor back in April when I first got the upright..
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=65253.msg655754#msg655754

It does work with the original Jamma board quite nicely, but via JPAC and Powerstrip I can only get a usable screen at 15khz and 640x480i res. As I stated above it works just fine when game roms are loaded, but at Windows desktop its very blurry.. with some tweaking I can get Windows in crystal clear, but then its split screen once again... I do have a drawer full of older Rage II era video cards, but then certain games like SmashTV, Strike Force etc lag like mad, so I want to stick with the Geforce if possible.

Will try the Soft15khz app tonight if I get the time!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Miketek on June 13, 2007, 10:22:36 pm
Well after alot of playing about with Soft-15khz and having similar results as with Powerstrip, I have found a very usable workaround to my issue of not being able to read anything on the Windows Desktop.. Or the MAME game list..

I just changed the default Font to Arial Black Bold 16 and everything is VERY readable now  :P
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on June 14, 2007, 02:49:34 pm
That's what I thought. You're using an original equipment monitor, Do you know the resolutions it's capable of? Getting split screen is usually bad. My multi-sync auto-shuts down when this happens. You may be putting undue stress on your monitor.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on June 20, 2007, 07:07:30 pm
Update: Well, this program seems to be very hardware (video card, at least) dependent. On my PIII using a Gforce3 Ti200, I got regular native resolutions. However, on my new 2.8 P4 with an Nvidia 6200 unlocked to a 6700, I got the following very curious results (note, both computers are using XP SP2) :
 
First off, my Billabs multi-sync has various resolutions that many game resolutions fall under and the OSD displays them (ie: 640x224 for 240x256, 336x240, etc). In all games using soft-15 with the 6200, in the OSD I get 'user mode', with the timings at the bottom, and it turns out there are groups of games that fall under these, too. However, they're not all related by game resolution as is the case for the regular modes: for example, most 224x288 games are in the same group - except Jr Pac-man.
 
This is where it gets interesting. I noticed that in most games, the horizontal frequency shown in the OSD was 31khz - and often the vertical frequency being over 100! Even more interesting: I had my Monivision monitor hooked up to the other output, and expected it to turn off when loading games at native res. Not so. If got the same kind of image as with the Billabs -  and the exact same in a few cases, no geometry difference between the two - and scan lines just as with the AVGA. Hmmmm.
 
What is happening here? To note, there are other differences, of which I've expressed before: the AVGA does some kind of strange brightness thing at low and medium resolutions (and my monitor makes a whine) that I can't replicate in Mame with stretch, and isn't happening with soft-15, though soft-15 does seem to make it a little brighter. Although, while I find the brightness of the AVGA games entrancing, those in soft-15 are easier on the eyes, particularly the scan lines.
 
There are also some oddities: regardless of either card used, there are games that don't sync - the Billabs will make a syncing noise, or both monitors will be blank and Mame32 closes back to the GUI - though they're not the same between cards. I haven't tried regular mame in a little while but recall observing the same behavior.

I also re-emphasize that windows at 1024x768 gives a scrolling desktop on either computer.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 21, 2007, 12:30:24 am
Hm...
Sounds like the 6200 doesn't output 15KHz, an all Modes are "doubled" to 31KHz. Then they would either be the doubled vertical resolution (i.e. 320x240 should be 320x480) or doubled refresh rate (~120Hz).

About the 1024x768... Yeah, actually the VISIBLE resolution is 1024x600, as it is simply not possible to display more lines without droping below 50Hz.

I don't know whats the problem with the "low-end" cards.
I know a GeForce2 MX can do interlace, as it does on DOS, and it did with older Detonator / ForceWare drivers.
However on the newer (66.93 and newer) drivers, all "cheap" (GeForce2 MX)  cards I tried can't do interlace, the "better" ones (GeForce2 GTS) do, although they both can do with the old drivers.
Sadly older drivers don't support custom resolutions.

However, you can checkout what resolutions you card is outputing if you take a look in the ForceWare, as there should be an "Advanced Timing" Button somewhere.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on June 21, 2007, 03:14:10 pm
Hm...
Sounds like the 6200 doesn't output 15KHz, an all Modes are "doubled" to 31KHz. Then they would either be the doubled vertical resolution (i.e. 320x240 should be 320x480) or doubled refresh rate (~120Hz).

Well, it looks pretty much the same to me. This would apparently be a bonus: to get native-looking resolutions, people wouldn't need a monitor that goes below 31khz. Might be something worth looking into.

Quote
About the 1024x768... Yeah, actually the VISIBLE resolution is 1024x600, as it is simply not possible to display more lines without droping below 50Hz.

Somehow, the arcade VGA is able to. Along with that 'brightness' factor, this might be something proprietary.

Also, anything new on the development of 35khz and higher resolutions?...and on integrated video?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 21, 2007, 06:06:15 pm
As for integrated video...
Radeon Express should work fine.
GeForce2Go or such could work, but right now never got hands on one.

Intel GMA is still in works. I should be able to add resolutions to the mode list, however I can't disable the "basic" ones.
Also I don't have a board with it.

As for new resolutions...
Right now the only 35KHz resolutions I can imagine of would be 800x600 @ 60Hz and 1024x768 @ 50Hz (all lines visible).
But I don't know of any game that needs it, so nothing happens.

--

As for native resolutions...
If you monitor can handle 120Hz, you could try the file attached.
BUT... real 320 * 240 will look quite bad on an 21" VGA Monitor, because of the small dot matrix. You will see quite large scanlines (larger than the "visible" lines)

*EDIT*
(http://community.arcadeinfo.de/attachment.php?attachmentid=4313&d=1173531337)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on June 22, 2007, 01:42:37 am
Yeah, when I say integrated I'm asking about Intel sets.

35khz and above: well, I do a lot of stuff in Windows still, plus I like to run front-ends and vector games at high resolutions. Both my monitors will do up to 1024x768. (One is an arcade monitor, the other is a presentation monitor.)

I tried an experiment and only loaded 31khz resolutions. This made all the games run at high refresh but still with native-looking scanlines. (I also tried it on my 21" PC monitor, and I recommend it to anyone using a PC monitor. You're right in that the scan lines are thick, but it's better than using Mame effects.) So, I guess this card is weird: it will output 15khz, but only to a select few games. Most run high refresh.

Also, I don't know what to do with that file.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 22, 2007, 10:52:24 am
just save it in the same folder as soft15khz.exe and name it custom31khz.txt, then run soft15khz and click "install 31khz".

bout intel... yeah, a new board with a new chipset requires a new cpu and new memory and --- yeah, quite a big investment for "just" another driver :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shorthair on June 22, 2007, 05:12:30 pm
Intel set: yeah, that is a big investment.

just save it in the same folder as soft15khz.exe and name it custom31khz.txt, then run soft15khz and click "install 31khz".

Oh. Okay, that's what I did in my experiment and forgot to mention it, but I wasn't sure that was what I was supposed to do. So, the card is weird, and it's like this:

1) if I load all three modes, it will display most games as native-looking resolutions with high refresh but a few will be at 15khz. There are a few games that just won't load: some are particular to my Billabs monitor, whereas some won't load on either monitor.

2) if I load only 31khz mode, it will display all games at native-looking resolutions with high refresh rates. The same ones still don't work, though a couple few that didn't, do now.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: computarmann on July 03, 2007, 08:44:14 am
    I tried soft- 15khz with my laptop which has an nvidea geforce 5200 and emulators like epsxe look amazing on my sony pvm-2530. I'm using windows xp on the laptop and mame looks almost as good as advancemame on my usual desktop machine that is usually hooked to this sony pvm which has windows 98. I tried windows 98 using an ati all-in-wonder 7500 and the desktop as well as mame etc. looked more flickery. I expect windows to flicker some, but I don't understand why with the ati 7500 that mame flickers. I would like to use advancemame for mame and use windows for other emulators but The ati is just too flickery so I put my old voodoo 3500 back in just to use advancemame. The voodoo 3500 does a much better job of filling the screen out and seems to look more crisp on advancemame. Maybe support for voodoo can be added to soft- 15khz.
    Soft-15 khz is an amazing program and I run my laptop in clone mode and it does'nt matter what the desktop looks like because I just use the laptop display which appears normal at 800x600. Epsxe and zsnes look about as perfect as perfect gets with the resolution set to 640x480. I tried this program not expecting much but I was pleasantly surprised. I tried ccs64 and it was something to see a blue c64 screen in RGB.  :D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ARTIFACT on July 10, 2007, 10:41:56 pm
Would this improve display on my setup?

. Nvidia GeForce 4 MX
. S-Video
. 27" SONY Trinitron TV

... not SCART, not component... S-Video

Thanks for letting me know!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 12, 2007, 12:00:52 pm
    Soft-15 khz is an amazing program and I run my laptop in clone mode and it does'nt matter what the desktop looks like because I just use the laptop display which appears normal at 800x600. Epsxe and zsnes look about as perfect as perfect gets with the resolution set to 640x480. I tried this program not expecting much but I was pleasantly surprised. I tried ccs64 and it was something to see a blue c64 screen in RGB.  :D
Try running ZSNES in Custom Mode with a 512x240 resolution, it will look even better :)

Would this improve display on my setup?
... not SCART, not component... S-Video
Most likely not, although I've never tried.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tba on July 13, 2007, 05:11:27 am
first:
woo,  :cheers: i tried this program and it worked great on my old PII-400 with a 3DFX voodoo 3500 TV!

Thank you, now i just have to get my Nanano 29" monitor working right!

Second:
SailorSat: you are my new hero! ;) i love your program, love your Sig line and could stare at your Avatar all day, there is just something so sexy/evil about it!  >:D

keep up the great work! 8)

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: disaac on July 13, 2007, 07:02:58 pm
Crap I can't seem to get this installed on Vista 32-bit.  I follow the instructions but never get to see the lower resolutions in Quickres or Windows Display Properties.

Radeon 2600 XT - yeah vista and this card (Cat 7.6), I know im pushing my luck already.

I have a feeling its not making the correct entries into the Vista Registry as needed.

Anybody seen this?

Daniel
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ARTIFACT on July 14, 2007, 12:07:45 am
Would this improve display on my setup?
... not SCART, not component... S-Video
Most likely not, although I've never tried.

awww :(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 14, 2007, 02:17:45 am
Crap I can't seem to get this installed on Vista 32-bit.  I follow the instructions but never get to see the lower resolutions in Quickres or Windows Display Properties.

Radeon 2600 XT - yeah vista and this card (Cat 7.6), I know im pushing my luck already.

I have a feeling its not making the correct entries into the Vista Registry as needed.

Anybody seen this?

Daniel

Hm...
Do you get the "higher" resolutions in 15KHz?

If you feel lucky, you can either dump a part of your windows registry (HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE / SYSTEM / CurrentControlSet / Control / Video) or attach the registry backup that soft15khz should create.

As far as I know, the software itself works, however the newer video hard- and software may be a problem...
A GeForce 8800 with ForceWare 158 didn't work with lower resolutions on XP either.

At the moment, I can't do very much as I don't have those "highend" hardware :)

However I'm lookin into 3Dfx again, as it seems to be possible we get interlace on those cards at last. It works on linux side, so it SHOULD be possible to do it on windows too :)

I'm also trying to get hands on an Volari V3XT, V5 or V8, as someone told me they support custom resolutions. However nobody owns such a rare gem, and a normal V3 doesn't work ;)

Also I don't know why the newer Matrox cards don't display low resolutions.
Seems like a "limit" in the windows driver, higher resolutions work fine.

(After reading this post, I just noticed bad my english must be *gg*)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: edge on July 16, 2007, 09:27:17 pm
Has anyone tried this with a Dell laptop yet?  I will dig mine up to see what card in embedded... Unfortunately, I think is in Intel based. :(

This would be a great option to shove my laptop in my old cocktail cabinet. :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 17, 2007, 12:25:39 am
Has anyone tried this with a Dell laptop yet?  I will dig mine up to see what card in embedded... Unfortunately, I think is in Intel based. :(

This would be a great option to shove my laptop in my old cocktail cabinet. :)

Yeah, would be nice to know what chipset/graphic card.
Laptops with Radeon or GeForce chips should work fine out of the box.

Intel with an GMA-900 (and newer) Chipset "may work" with a beta version of Soft-15KHz too.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Carlito on July 31, 2007, 07:52:54 pm
Hey guys, I'm really new to this mame/cabinet stuff and I have a few questions (Is there a more noob way to start a post??  ;))
I just picked up a cabinet.  The game itself is Karnov, that looks like it used to be a space invaders cabinet.
Anyway the guy informed me that it is a jamma cabinet..  So I'm wondering if I got a J-Pac board and hooked up a compatible video card with Soft-15khz is that all I will need to be able to use the arcade monitor that is inside the cabinet.  I would really like to use it since the machine is in perfect working order.
Let me know if I'm way off here guys, but from what I've read this is all I will need.  I'm looking forward to getting this project going  ;D

Cheers

Carlito
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on July 31, 2007, 08:14:41 pm
Carlito: that's pretty simplified, but yeah, in a nutshell, that's it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 10, 2007, 04:02:32 pm
Well... some news incoming :)

I'm currently using a Radeon 9600 Pro to drive my two cabs.
Dualhead works, as long as your card detects both displays (you MAY need to add 75 Ohm resistors to the RGB lines).

Also some more bugfixes with floating point values. (I really hate that stuff)

onboard geforce cards (tested on an geforce 6150) works fine also.

I'll add some new options on the next release.
first would be "double 15khz" (details below) and "custom" (if you only want to use your own modelines)



'bout "double 15khz"...

there are two ways to get a 15khz resolution to 31khz.
way 1 (the vga way) is drawing each line twice (320x240 on VGA actually is 320x480)
way 2 (my way ;)) is drawing each frame twice (means 120Hz instead of 60Hz)

lo-res (15khz) on hi-res (31khz) and VGA monitors works nice
looks sweet on hi-res arcade monitors and "larger" presentation beasts
however to use an real VGA monitor you should turn the "focus" poti a bit blurry, else you will have real sharp hardware scanlines.

hacked one line in MAME to have it output each frame twice cause we use the double vertical refresh (means 320x240 @ 120hz)
it works fine without, however you won't be able to sync the speed via tripple buffer.

*EDIT*
double 25khz (512x384) should work also, as most better hi-res and presentation screens support 1024x768 at 60Hz.
we could use 512x768 at 60Hz or 512x384 at 120Hz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tisurame on August 14, 2007, 04:07:42 am
I was trying a lot of homebrew games that run at 320x240 in fullscreen mode - and most of these games crash if I set to fullscreen - probably because the game request 320x240, and since this is not a available video mode (321x240 is) it will crash.

Is it possible to solve this problem ? Considering that I cant configure those games to run at 321x240, and not 320x240.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 14, 2007, 04:14:04 am
Hm... Could you name an example?

Maybe we could solve this by changing resolution to 322x240.
Either the games crash because they can't find a 320x240 resolution OR the crash because they try to divide the resoltution by 2 (to calculate the mid point of the screen) which will certainly crash an integer :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tisurame on August 14, 2007, 12:10:42 pm
This homebrew game, for example...

http://agtp.romhack.net/extra/LA-MULANA.zip

Cave Story is another very popular game. It also runs at 320x240 - but the game dont crash, it switches to 640x480 (which is a bad thing anyway).

http://homepage2.nifty.com/rochet/storage/dou_1006.zip



And if you use an emulator that use Direct3D to display the picture, it will also create some problems. pSX for example (a Playstation emulator) - most Playstation games runs at 320x240, but if you configure to use 321x240 instead, this extra pixel will create weird artifacts in the picture. This problem dont happen if you use 320x240, since this is the exact resolution that the game runs at.

Another example is that new CPS3 emulator (also using Direct3D). You can also set a custom fullscreen resolution (and since CPS3 games runs at 384x240 - the closest resolution to use with Soft-15khz would be 392x240) - but these extra pixels will also create the same artifacts. The only way to fix it is turning on the bilinear filtering, but it will blur the picture.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 14, 2007, 12:26:02 pm
For PSX you should use 640x240 or 512x240 (Tech Romancer for example runs with 256x240 Resolution)

'bout CPS3 Emulator...
IF the Emulator does NOT support some borders, you're stuck :(
However... Just use MAME ;)

*EDIT*
La-Mulana runs fine on my cab, although this game runs with 1024x768 resolution, not 320x240 (as stated in the readme)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tisurame on August 14, 2007, 04:57:47 pm
I see...

Is it also possible to adjust each resolution according to your monitor (in order to avoid overscan) ?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 14, 2007, 10:59:46 pm
That's not directly possible because each modeline would need to be finetuned AND every monitor "out there" has it's own settings.
Also it's very hard to finetune them "live". You could boot a DOS enviroment and fool around with the AdvMAME Modeline tools.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: telengard on August 18, 2007, 05:26:28 pm
Just installed this util on my cab and from what I can tell mame (0.118) doesn't see any of the new resolutions.  Running mamepp w/ the -verbose flag I see all the standard resolutions but none of the low res ones.  I have a WG9500 multi-sync monitor.

Checked the wiki etc didn't see anything.

EDIT: I also have a GeForce MX 4000

~telengard
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on August 18, 2007, 06:27:32 pm
try running Mame with the -res flag, eg

mame pacman -rol -res 320x240
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: telengard on August 18, 2007, 06:29:40 pm
try running Mame with the -res flag, eg

mame pacman -rol -res 320x240

That's what I was doing (well -resolution   :) ) and when I added -verbose I noticed it didn't print out any of the low res resolutions in the list of resolutions it found.

Tried out powerstrip and that went much worse...

~telengard

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 18, 2007, 06:31:56 pm
What ForceWare Version are you running?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: telengard on August 18, 2007, 06:49:34 pm
What ForceWare Version are you running?

93.71

~telengard
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 19, 2007, 03:59:49 am
Hm...
Should work then.

Right now I'm clueless.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: telengard on August 19, 2007, 12:58:35 pm
Hm...
Should work then.

Right now I'm clueless.

Anything I can do to validate that the modes are in the registry or in the Control Panel->Display part?  Also, I wasn't sure of the behavior but can you have all 3 different Khz modes installed at the same time.  It seemed to let me do it but I wasn't sure.

I smell PEBKAC on my part........   :)   :P

~telengard
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 19, 2007, 01:26:27 pm
Yes, you can enable every frequency on multi-sync monitors.

You should give QuickRes a try.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Grauwulf on August 21, 2007, 08:57:59 pm
I just wanted to think you for an excellent piece of kit.  :notworthy: I only got a few minutes to play with the software today before I had to do to work, but I had it set up quickly on win 98 running a Raedon 7500 and it looked fantastic. I can't wait until I get a chance to explore the capabilities a little farther.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: telengard on August 21, 2007, 10:50:22 pm
Ok, must have been something I was doing.  Booted up the mame cab, installed soft-15khz, worked like a champ.  Given something so easy I'm not really sure how I managed to screw it up.  Run a program, press a few buttons, run mame.  All the resolutions are there now which is great.

Just fired up Crystal Castles on the new WG D9500 and WOW!!!    :notworthy:  :notworthy:  :notworthy:

Thanks so much for this tool.  I promised myself I wouldn't waste hours and days again on tweaking video modes like I did w/ AdvanceMame a few years back.  This program has allowed me to have the nice modes with none of the work.

Do you have a paypal donation thing?  I didn't see one in this thread or on the initial link you gave.

thanks again!
~telengard
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Carlito on August 21, 2007, 11:45:22 pm
#3 in the initial link has his paypal info.
I should be getting my machine in acouple days, and if it works as well for me as it seems to have for you, then I'll be making a donation as well.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: telengard on August 21, 2007, 11:58:39 pm
#3 in the initial link has his paypal info.
I should be getting my machine in acouple days, and if it works as well for me as it seems to have for you, then I'll be making a donation as well.

Ah thanks.  I was looking for a paypal button.   :)

~telengard
Title: Newbie Q...does that mean arcoade monitor work with standard videa cards?
Post by: Jm1010 on September 03, 2007, 10:18:46 pm
Wow! does that mean that arcade monitors can work with standard cards (e.g. Radeon  7000?) and we don't need to buy a 15hz card such as the Altimarc? That would be awesome!

Do you recommend using win98 or TinyXP? Does it work with the software that automatically pick the right resolution for each game?

Is there any drawback compared to using the dedicated arcade card?

Thanks again

JM
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: vindes on September 05, 2007, 10:23:01 pm
This is a really great accomplishment, thanks for the great work SailorSat.

How would one create a custom resoultion for say 392x288 @ 60hz?  I read the faq, but didn't follow what all the numbers on the mode definition lines were.  Are these basically what would be generated by lrmc?

I know that would come out to 17.3khz.  Obviously not something a 15khz monitor would like, but supposedly the Betson Imperial multisync will sync to anything from 15khz to 40khz.  At least the manual says it will, and I remember reading a post somewhere on these forums from a guy that said he tested it and it worked.

Basically I'd love to see the x288 resolutions running at 60hz instead of 53hz.  Games without much on the screen look good (like pacman) but when you get stuff like Dig Dug where the whole screen is painted there's a lot of 53hz flicker.

I guess the other option would be to display the x288 resolutions at 120hz, which I think would be around 35khz.  Again, something the Betson should handle according to its manual.  (50-120hz refresh)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Carlito on September 12, 2007, 12:57:42 pm
I was wondering if anyone had any luck using a Radeon 7200 AGP card?
This is the card I'm using and my J-Pac seems to think the right sync is being sent but I'm having some problems adjusting the H and V holds so the desktop stops scrolling.  The adjustments are very very sensitive and I can't seem to get it to hold properly.
Not sure if this is a problem with my card/Soft-15khz problem or not.  Just looking for some assurance that a Radeon 7200 should work.

Thanks for the great software,
Carlito
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tisurame on September 18, 2007, 06:12:39 pm
Anyone have an idea if a Geforce FX5200 or 5500 would work ?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: klin on September 26, 2007, 12:09:16 am
Anyone know the how to calculate the modeline resolution for Neo Geo?

Somehow I'm getting resolution stretching artifacts on Neo Geo (easily seen while playing Pulsar).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 26, 2007, 04:22:59 am
Anyone know the how to calculate the modeline resolution for Neo Geo?

Somehow I'm getting resolution stretching artifacts on Neo Geo (easily seen while playing Pulsar).

Tab ^, push several times up until you reach "Horizontal Stretch" and change it to 1.00

Thats actually a "feature" in MAME...
Neogeo does output 320 pixels, but most software use only 304, and the extra 16 pixel contain garbage.
Mamedev's decided to zoom out those pixel because they don't want to get false bug reports for the neogeo driver.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: klin on September 28, 2007, 01:19:13 am

Tab ^, push several times up until you reach "Horizontal Stretch" and change it to 1.00

Thats actually a "feature" in MAME...
Neogeo does output 320 pixels, but most software use only 304, and the extra 16 pixel contain garbage.
Mamedev's decided to zoom out those pixel because they don't want to get false bug reports for the neogeo driver.
[/quote]


I am currently using Mame Plus Plus and I am having problem locating "Horizontal Stretch" onscreen.

Could I get more info on your instruction?


thank you for the wonderful software...

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 28, 2007, 09:00:41 am
Today my new GFX card arrived, a nice GeForce 8600GT, so I tried the new ForceWare (162.18) and it does not show resolutions below 512x384.
However with the same ForceWare, and an (quite dusty) 6600GT it works fine with the lower resolutions.

So it seems the GeForce 8 series can't support the low pixelclock.
However 640x480 interlace works fine. So does 25kHz and 31kHz.

*EDIT*
No wait... pixelclock is NOT the problem!
NVidia just seems to "filter out" resolutions by their.. well resolution ;)
No Modes less than 512 pixels width and 384 lines height...

Now wtf are they thinking? :)

---

@klin

With ^ I mean the key left of 1, just below ESC.
If you press it, sort of a menu pops up with Volume etc.
Press Cursor Up several times until you reach Horizontal Stretch (see image) and change it to 1.00
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tisurame on September 28, 2007, 10:56:08 pm
I tried ForceWare 162.18 with a GeForce FX 5500 - it only showed resolutions above 640x480 (but the 640x480 resolution itself was very odd). 720x480 worked fine, though.

So, the problem was just the new drivers ? Because I returned the card thinking it would not work with low resolutions.  :hissy:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 29, 2007, 06:28:02 am
I can't say for sure.
The ForceWare 162.18 works fine with a 6600GT.

The nvidia tech support isn't very helpfull at all.
They say the 8600GT supports those low modes, however they can't figure out why they don't show up. (lol!)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: calitomans on October 03, 2007, 11:56:17 am

Anyone tried this tool on a radeon x1650? I am probably going to purchase one, but wanted some feedback first...

Thx
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Rickn on October 05, 2007, 05:53:24 pm
So help me out, I am interested in playing with this... is the very first thread on this post the only way to finf the most up to date.
Is it at build 36, including quick res...

Sounds fantastic, now once I find the downloads, and the time I would love to evaluate it.

Thanks

Rick Nieman
Rick@niemandisplays.com
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 11, 2007, 11:57:41 pm
http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=9367
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: XYXZYZ on October 14, 2007, 09:19:58 pm
First of all this is a fantastic program, it appears my headaches with PowerStrip are over. I love how simple Soft 15kHz is, thanks for writing it.

However, every now and then when I exit a MAME game back to the frontend (MaLa) everything goes wacky and the screen is all zig-zaggy. Reloading the MAME game will fix things, and exiting again will usually set everything back to normal. But not all the time, I've had to reboot the computer occasionally. Also, it's sort of an intermittent problem; I can't seem to pin it down to certain games or other factors.

Is this some kind of bug or is there something I can do?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: dynamite on October 15, 2007, 01:47:06 am
Hi guys I "think" I have this program working but I still need help setting things up. I'm using a radeon 9000 with a hacked vga cable to the monitor. The monitor I'm using is WG U2000 and from what I've found the specs are:
resolution 560x240
horizontal scan frequency 15.1KHz to 18KHz std
vertical scan frequency 47Hz to 63Hz

So since this isn't a digital monitor and I don't want to have to adjust the sync each time I change games or switch to the frontend I have to use a common res for everything right? I've seen people saying that you have to have the desktop set to 640x480 for this program to work but when I use that res I can't get the vert sync to lock in. If I use 640x288 it locks in but the games look squished from the sides.

Noob Questions
1. What resolution do I set the desktop, the frontend, and mame to?
2. What other important commands should I check in mame.ini?
3. Should I be selecting the 16 or 32 bit resolutions from quickres?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 15, 2007, 06:55:48 am
@XYXZYZ:
Hm... Are you using 640x480 for MaLa?
Sometimes monitors don't note the switch from progressive to interlaced video and vice versa.
As far as I can say, it's not a bug, as I can't reproduce on any of my hardware.
However you're not the first person to mention this.


@dynamite:
maybe give 400x256 a try, but don't enable vsync or tripple buffer then.
as for mame.ini... normaly you would enable tripplebuffer and switchres, but in your case I woult carefully try it out.
I can't really believe there are monitors out there that really need to be finetuned to every single resolution every single time you change the game.
Try to lock the 640x240 resolution (15.8kHz, 60Hz) and then start some games (with switchres enabled).
As for bit depth... I use 32bit all the time.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 30, 2007, 04:45:55 pm
So it looks like the GeForce8 won't ever support native resolutions below 512x384 :(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 30, 2007, 08:44:55 pm
Quote
Well, maybe somebody needs to hack the forceware. Or maybe advancemame will re-emerge, or something like it emerge. Wonder why Nvidia would do that?

As far as I know, the GeForce 8 has a "feature" with certain resolutions to "scale" it to some other resolution...
You create an resolution like 1050x800 pixels, and tell the card to hardwarescale it to a native resolution (say 1280x960).

I suppose thats for LCD/TFT/Plasma and other "fixed resolution" displays...

On my Sony CRT using a GeForce 8600, 320x240 is output as 640x480 with a bilinear filter on it (at least it looks that way).
With my GeForce 7600, 320x240 is output as 320x480 with (simple) line doubling.

As for hacking the forceware...
Well someone feeling lucky and wants to give it a try?

A little Off-Topic...
Someone tried a recent ATI card (newer than Radeon 9x00) with Soft-15kHz?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: the watchman on November 04, 2007, 05:37:54 am
I have a Hercules prophet 9200 and I have tried to run the program but it just keeps coming up with  a runtime error 75.  Is there anything I can do to get around this?

Pete
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 04, 2007, 09:52:50 am
You need to start Soft-15kHz from a directory it can read/write to.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on November 25, 2007, 09:16:19 pm
To those who may be interested, SailorSat provided me the following list of modelines for each of the video modes in her software:

  '15KHz Progressive

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "240,240,60", "modeline '240x240@58,795' 4,83 240 252 276 310 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "256,240,60", "modeline '256x240@60,436' 5,3 256 272 296 336 240 244 247 261 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "256,256,60", "modeline '256x256@59,496' 5,36 256 268 292 330 256 257 260 273 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "256,264,60", "modeline '256x264@58,317' 5,35 256 268 292 330 264 265 268 278 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "288,240,60", "modeline '288x240@59,885' 5,84 288 296 328 368 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "296,240,60", "modeline '296x240@59,941' 5,95 296 304 336 376 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "304,240,60", "modeline '304x240@59,305' 6,2 304 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "321,200,60", "modeline '320x200@59,535' 6,2 320 336 368 410 200 216 219 254 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "321,240,60", "modeline '321x240@59,014' 6,45 321 336 368 414 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "321,256,60", "modeline '320x256@59,917' 6,68 320 340 372 416 256 257 260 268 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "336,240,60", "modeline '336x240@59,749' 6,83 336 352 384 433 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "352,256,60", "modeline '352x256@59,697' 7,28 352 368 400 450 256 257 260 271 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "352,264,60", "modeline '352x264@57,257' 7,35 352 365 405 452 264 265 268 284 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "352,288,60", "modeline '352x288@51,116' 7,4 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "368,240,60", "modeline '368x240@59,196' 7,47 368 384 424 478 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "384,288,60", "modeline '384x288@51,219' 7,85 384 400 440 496 288 289 292 309 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "392,240,60", "modeline '392x240@59,898' 8 392 408 448 504 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "401,256,60", "modeline '400x256@52,419' 8,08 400 416 456 519 256 268 271 297 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "448,240,60", "modeline '448x240@60,01' 9,16 448 464 512 576 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "512,240,60", "modeline '512x240@59,973' 10,68 512 544 600 672 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "512,288,60", "modeline '512x288@50,939' 10,68 512 544 600 672 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "632,264,60", "modeline '632x264@56,751' 13 632 664 728 824 264 265 268 278 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "640,240,60", "modeline '640x240@59,96' 13,22 640 672 736 832 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "640,288,60", "modeline '640x288@50,955' 13,1 640 672 736 832 288 289 292 309 -hsync -vsync"

 

  '15KHz Interlace

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "512,448,60", "modeline '512x448@59,863' 10,6 512 542 598 672 448 469 472 527 interlace -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "512,512,60", "modeline '512x512@58,232' 10,6 512 538 594 668 512 513 516 545 interlace -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "640,480,60", "modeline '640x480@59,536' 13,09 640 672 736 836 480 481 483 526 interlace -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "720,480,60", "modeline '720x480@59,934' 14,6 720 752 824 928 480 486 489 525 interlace -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "800,600,60", "modeline '800x600@50,546' 16,48 800 840 920 1040 600 602 605 627 interlace -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 15, "1024,768,60", "modeline '1024x600@50,201' 20,9 1024 1072 1176 1328 600 607 610 627 interlace -hsync -vsync"

  ReadCustomResolutionTable 15, "custom15khz.txt"

 

  '25KHz Progressive

  AddResolutionToTable 25, "448,384,60", "modeline '448x384@60,009' 12,95 448 456 504 520 384 387 390 415 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 25, "512,384,60", "modeline '512x384@59,959' 14,75 512 520 568 600 384 388 391 410 -hsync -vsync"

  ReadCustomResolutionTable 25, "custom25khz.txt"

 

  '31KHz Progressive

  AddResolutionToTable 31, "512,448,60", "modeline '512x448@59,863' 21,21 512 542 598 672 448 469 472 527 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 31, "512,512,60", "modeline '512x512@58,232' 21,21 512 538 594 668 512 513 516 545 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 31, "640,480,60", "modeline '640x480@59,536' 26,18 640 672 736 836 480 481 483 526 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 31, "720,480,60", "modeline '720x480@59,934' 29,25 720 752 824 928 480 486 489 525 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 31, "800,600,60", "modeline '800x600@50,546' 32,96 800 840 920 1040 600 602 605 627 -hsync -vsync"

  AddResolutionToTable 31, "1024,768,60", "modeline '1024x600@50,201' 41,8 1024 1072 1176 1328 600 607 610 627 -hsync -vsync"

  ReadCustomResolutionTable 31, "custom31khz.txt"

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: savj14 on November 26, 2007, 01:09:49 pm
Can the Following Resolutions be added:

768 x 240 or 384 x 240 (Street Fighter Series)
384x224
800 x 254 or 400 x 254 = (MK Series)
512 x 448 = (Virtua Fighter)

I tried to read up about adding custom resolutions, but it wan't it English........Does anyone have a quick and easy tutorial on this??
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 26, 2007, 01:17:23 pm
For CPS games use 392x240, for Mortal Kombat use 401x256, and Virtual Fighter uses 512x384 (which is 25kHz) so you need to use 512x448.

MAME ignores the few extra pixels if you use "video ddraw".
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: savj14 on November 26, 2007, 02:06:27 pm
For CPS games use 392x240, for Mortal Kombat use 401x256, and Virtual Fighter uses 512x384 (which is 25kHz) so you need to use 512x448.

MAME ignores the few extra pixels if you use "video ddraw".

I have been using Power Strip before trying Soft-15KHz and have been using the following resolutions:

Street Fighter Series - 768 x 240
MK Series -  800 x 254

Would the resolutions you suggested be better to use than what I listed above?? In terms of picture quality/Filling the entire screen.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: savj14 on November 26, 2007, 02:29:38 pm
Also, If I can add 384 x 240 would that be a better resolution than 392x240?? If that is possible.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 26, 2007, 03:50:30 pm
You won't have those tiny black borders left and right, but thats all difference.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: savj14 on November 26, 2007, 04:38:21 pm
You won't have those tiny black borders left and right, but thats all difference.

Hmmmm so basically what resolutions will give me the best quality picture with the least amount of black borders?? I am little confused now  ???
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 27, 2007, 01:27:59 am
Use the "base" resolutions added by Soft-15kHz, they work fine for almost everyone.

If you still want to create more "perfect" modelines, well grab yourself ADVV from AdvMAME, boot a DOS enviroment, and try to create it.
It's quite some work.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: savj14 on November 27, 2007, 02:09:33 pm
Using PowerStrip I was able to add both 768 x 240 and 800 x 254, which did fill the screen better than the resolutions built into SoftK.

But using 512x384 for Vitua Fight did not work for me. The screen was all garbled. What settings for MAME should I be using???

Also, I cannot seem to find a resolution that will work for Killer Instinct(320x240)

I tried 320x240 and it gave me a black screen. I could hear sound but no image. Any ideas??
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 27, 2007, 05:29:03 pm
The thing about resolutions is, that they are NOT universal.
It is simply impossible to make them all fill the screen without loosing pixels on either side.

For Killer Instinct try 321x240, although MAME should select the right resolution itself.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: savj14 on November 28, 2007, 01:34:19 pm
All right Killer Instinct is working nicely now.

For some reason still can't get Virtua Fighter to work. The closest I got was a rolling screen.........Any suggestions???
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Lilwolf on December 05, 2007, 04:55:45 am
I just got a bentson 27" multisync and have it running on a ATI 9700.  Works great. 
I then installed soft15k and it works great!

But I'm still getting a TON of original resolutions when I look at quickres (1024x726->2048x1452 and everything inbetween).

Is there an easy way to remove all but your resolutions? 

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: 2600 on December 05, 2007, 09:38:07 am
Is there an easy way to remove all but your resolutions? 


Remembered this tool from a Retroblast review
Refresh Force (http://www.pagehosting.co.uk/rf/)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 05, 2007, 10:04:47 am
I just got a bentson 27" multisync and have it running on a ATI 9700.  Works great. 
I then installed soft15k and it works great!

But I'm still getting a TON of original resolutions when I look at quickres (1024x726->2048x1452 and everything inbetween).

Is there an easy way to remove all but your resolutions? 

Thanks

Hm... Choose a custom Monitor profile like SVGA 800x600 or something, or try using the catalyst driver to limit the resolution (there was an option somewhere)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 06, 2007, 10:30:07 pm
Does this tool work with windows XP 64 bit? or Vista 64bit?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 07, 2007, 03:56:13 am
It should work with XP64.
Never tried it on Vista though :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 07, 2007, 07:20:24 am
one more question. I have a 7950gtx Geforce. Has anyone used it with the latest nvidia drivers 163.75?



Thank You
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 07, 2007, 12:04:51 pm
The last one I tried was a 7600GT, and that worked.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 07, 2007, 03:38:45 pm
Cool, what about the driver version? Reason I am asking because I am redoing my mame computer and I am doing fresh windows install.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 07, 2007, 03:44:15 pm
Should work with the newer drivers too, last one I tried was 162.18
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 13, 2007, 06:11:34 pm
Ok I just got my cabinet up and running. I installed my Bil labs bl27CB0p monitor.  I selected this monitor because of its capablities to display multi resolutions and refreshrates. http://www.billabs.com/bl27cb0p.htm

I am running win xp 32bit OS and nvidia 7950GT with 163.75 drivers. I installed latest version of soft 15khz version .36. My questions is what mame settings do I need to use to get the closest results to orginal resoultions and refresh rates? Also once I installed soft 15khz and installed all three khz modes. I rebooted the computer and when it booted into the windows desktop which is running @ 800x640 it was flickering alot. I didnt want to screw up my brand new arcade monitor so I uninstalled soft 15khz until I an understand more what I am doing. can anyone tell me why it was flicker?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 13, 2007, 09:49:35 pm
It's flickering because 800x600 is a PAL resolution and running with 50hz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 13, 2007, 10:01:27 pm
Yea i ment 800x600 not 640, Ah I see now in your page 800x600 and 1024x768 are in 50hz.


So what can I do. I can change resolution in desktop to 640x480 but I still run other games that use 800x600 and 1024x768.

Is there a way to elimate soft15khz if 800 and 1024 are used?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 13, 2007, 10:19:54 pm
They all actually show up as 60hz to the OS :)

As for MAME...

In MAME.INI...
Switch to DirectDraw (video ddraw) and enable switching of resolutions (switchres 1), then enable tripple buffer to avoid tearing (triplebuffer 1).

If you want a real SMOOTH emulation you would want to disable throttle, frameskip and autoframeskip (throttle 0, frameskip 0 and autoframeskip 0).
Please note that you get sound disortions in the newer MAME builds, so consider giving "cabMAME" a try.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 13, 2007, 10:33:50 pm
Thanks for the recommendations, can you tell me how if its possible to by pass the use of  soft15khz when running 800x640 and 1024x768?  I still those higher resoultions for visual pinball and vector games and ofcourse dont want them to run @ 50hz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 13, 2007, 11:29:29 pm
Put a custom31kHz.txt in the same folder as soft-15khz.exe with the following contents...

Code: [Select]
modeline '1024x768@60p' 65.0 1024 1048 1184 1344 768 771 777 806 -vsync -hsync
modeline '800x600@60p' 40.0 800 840 968 1056 600 601 605 628 -hsync -vsync

The uninstall and reinstall Soft-15kHz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 14, 2007, 10:04:32 am
Ok What about all the 50hz modes in the 15hz range ?  Do I need a seperate custom config file? Also one other quick question my monitor doesnt have an option to display what resolution its in on the OSD is there a program or setting in mame to show the actual resoultion running? I cant run to show me what its running at? One last questions you had mentioned Cabmame to help with tearing on arcade monitors. I compile my own mame source for optimiztion of Dual core Intel proccessors. I also compile Hi_diff into my builds. Can I used the 121_u1 soundsync hack with 121_u4 version of mame?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 14, 2007, 04:32:28 pm
I just tried the custom.txt file and it worked. However when I used the switch resolution checkbox and ran donkey kong screen went black. By default mame is running everything at 800x640.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 14, 2007, 11:52:34 pm
Can I used the 121_u1 soundsync hack with 121_u4 version of mame?
Should work, but you also need the 121u1_emuspeed.diff for soundsync to work.

However when I used the switch resolution checkbox and ran donkey kong screen went black.
Well... try giving donkey kong a fixed resolution then.

Also one other quick question my monitor doesnt have an option to display what resolution its in on the OSD is there a program or setting in mame to show the actual resoultion running?
The only software I know that does this is PowerStrip, if you enable the (auto) OSD. It shows the exact timing of you graphics card onscreen after you switch resolution. BUT it is known to malfunction with lowres resolutions, causing the system to freeze for 2 or 3 seconds.

However for MAME, you could try running MAME from the command line and turning on "verbose".
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 15, 2007, 01:32:35 pm
I think I am just going to run all games in 640x480 d3d with cabmame.  I would like the flexablity to use my own mame compile and just add the sound fix. I did try to compile the all the hacks into my .121U4 build of mame but recieved this error when compiling.

src/emu/video.c: In function 'recompute_speed':
src/emu/video.c:1612: error: 'OPTION_REDRAW' undeclared (first use in this function)
Finished!
0 Hours 12 Minutes and 44 Seconds Elapsed.
src/emu/video.c:1612: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
src/emu/video.c:1612: error: for each function it appears in.)
mingw32-make: *** [obj/windows/mame/emu/video.o] Error 1

Is that beause I am using ur hacks from mame 121u1 in a mame 121u4 build? What specific diffs should I be using?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 15, 2007, 01:42:18 pm
Well yeah, I usually update the hacks every few releases.
Seems somethink broke (or some patch did now work)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 15, 2007, 02:10:28 pm
Ah ok I just tried it with just soundsync and emuspeed and it worked with u4. What the neogeo.diff? is that to address sound in neogeo games? Also Volume seems lower any way to adjust?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 16, 2007, 12:23:52 am
neogeo.diff reenables the "real" 320x224 pixels the neogeo hardware does instead of the mame enforced 304x224.
Most games display some kind of "garbage" in those area, however, thats what the real hardware does.

It also kills some "scaling" errors.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on December 17, 2007, 09:20:38 am
Quote
If you want a real SMOOTH emulation you would want to disable throttle, frameskip and autoframeskip (throttle 0, frameskip 0 and autoframeskip 0).
Please note that you get sound disortions in the newer MAME builds, so consider giving "cabMAME" a try.

Hi SailorSat.

The sound distortion you are referring to here, is that the fact that if you are synchronizing the framerate to a monitor refresh rate that is different from the original game's you get a different sound pitch?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 17, 2007, 12:18:17 pm
you SHOULD, however mame doesn't change the pitch so if doesn't generate enough samples if the emulation is lower than 100%, and you get too many samples if it's faster than 100%.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on December 17, 2007, 03:04:25 pm
So what is the sound problem that cabmame addresses?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 17, 2007, 03:51:10 pm
It's exactly this problem.
cabMAME changes the speed at which the soundbuffer is read, so that there are no buffer underrun/overrun hickups.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on December 17, 2007, 04:02:33 pm
I guess I should ask what is the consequence of this problem; what does the user experience?  Is it stuttering sound or something like that?
I have not played a lot with the recent MAME releases but I don't recall having experienced sound problems with triplebuffer and running kunfgum at 60Hz (original ran at 55Hz).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 17, 2007, 09:03:54 pm
I am amazed the mame team hasnt implemented this hack. What are the percentages of people who actually run mame at the exact refresh rates?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 18, 2007, 03:41:01 am
for example the good old pacman runs at 60.61 Hz.
So if you run it on exact 60.00Hz, you are running with ~98,99%.

So this makes pacman about 1,01% slower (and the sound pitch those 1% lower).
I guess only real fanatics hear the difference :)

---

The NeoGeo would be the same, but faster.
natively running with 59,18 Hz, you would run at 101,38% on 60.00Hz.

that would make the game a little faster and the sound pitch a little higher.

---
But... R-Type for example is a example for this being pretty bad.
On a normal PC-VGA-Card, you would have something like 800 x 600 @ 56Hz, which pretty good hits R-Types 55Hz.
However on Soft-15kHz or the ArcadeVGA, it will run at 401 x 256 @ 53Hz, which makes R-Type run with ~96,36% which you most likely will hear (although its not that bad as it sounds).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on December 18, 2007, 07:54:32 am
Quote
The NeoGeo would be the same, but faster.
natively running with 59,18 Hz, you would run at 101,38% on 60.00Hz.
that would make the game a little faster and the sound pitch a little higher.
Now you have me lost.  You said a few posts above that MAME does not change the pitch:

Quote
you SHOULD, however mame doesn't change the pitch so if doesn't generate enough samples if the emulation is lower than 100%, and you get too many samples if it's faster than 100%.

Besides, doesn't one of those new parameters, refresh or refreshspeed automatically adjust the sound rate (I think this is what you aluded to when you said MAME alters the sample rate).


Also, catching up with this post, it should be noted that this problem only applies when using syncrefresh (which is on automatically when choosing triplebuffer in full-screen) because MAME runs the game at the refresh rate of the monitor.  If not using these features, MAME runs the game at the original speed regardless of monitor refresh and screen tearing ensues.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 18, 2007, 09:38:05 am
Now you have me lost.  You said a few posts above that MAME does not change the pitch:

Besides, doesn't one of those new parameters, refresh or refreshspeed automatically adjust the sound rate (I think this is what you aluded to when you said MAME alters the sample rate).

Yeah I was trying to describe cabMAMEs behavior.

And for those new MAME features (it should be refreshspeed), well... It doesn't work too good, still have cracking and jumping sound.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on December 18, 2007, 10:06:06 am
OK.  Thanks.

I'll check out your build if I run into sound problems when I get a monitor.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 18, 2007, 01:49:21 pm
Manuel: It worked well for me. I just compiled the hacks into my own mame build.

Sailer I do have a question. I am running d3d, artwork all on, tripple buffering, and 25scanline.png and 640x480 resoultion in desktop

I tried using same settings with ddraw and it just centers the game in the middle of screen. The gaems all fit on screen and artwork and overlays looks good.  get some tearing espically noticable when playing zaxxon. Should I stick with d3d or is ddraw better? If so how do I get ddraw to work with the aartwork and fill the screen instead of cropping and centerizing?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 18, 2007, 03:25:28 pm
Err... Don't know, I don't use artworks at all :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 21, 2007, 10:46:03 am
Ok Sailor was doing some testing and I have a question. My setup is an Nvidia Geforce 7950GT Running

forceware 163.75 drivers. I have all 3 modes installed on soft 15khz. I also added a custom31khz.txt

with these 2 entries (modeline '1024x768@60p' 65.0 1024 1048 1184 1344 768 771 777 806 -vsync -hsync
modeline '800x600@60p' 40.0 800 840 968 1056 600 601 605 628 -hsync -vsync)so my desktop would not

flicker as per your instructions. I have a (Billbas BL27CB0P 27" 15~48 kHz
Autosync™CGA/EGA/VGA/SVGA/XGA Penta-Resolution V-Freq. 47~90 Hz) Monitor.

Now I am running mame with ddraw, no hardware stretch, switch res on and certain resolutions

instead of getting  15khz horz and 60khz vertical I am getting double that on each. I will list out each res

mode i have tested and exact values I am getting. My questions area as follows:

Is it safe to run the arcade monitor @120+khz vertial even if specs say 90khz?
Why isn’t the monitor running these resolutions at the 15khz/60khz range??
If its a limitation of my video card or monitos is there way to test similar resoultions that may run at 15khz?

I spoke to ummon who has the same monitor and said he has had

similar findings with a geforce 6 series card. Can it be that newer PCI Express cards exhibit this issue

of doubling refresh rates with  certain resolutions? Anything to address this? I would like to run all

15khz resolutions at 15khz since games also appear brighter as well. Please let me know what you think.

All tests were done in 32 bit color

240x240   30.9khz   116.6khz
256x240   15.7         60.4
256x256   32.5         119.3
256x264   16.2         58.6
288x240   31.8        120.1
296x240   31.7        120.1
304x240   15.8        58.4
320x240   15.5         58.1
320x256   32.8         119.1
336x240   15.8         60
352x256   32.6         120.5
352x264   32.3         114.1
352x288   15.9         50.9
448x240   15.5         32.4
448x384   24.8          59.9
632x264   15.8          56.8
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 21, 2007, 11:11:37 am
I just got off the phone with billbas tech support and they said there were some reports of people burning out the horizontal at high refresh rates, so I was advised not to run above 90khz
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 21, 2007, 11:21:05 am
Hm... I've used both a GeForce6 and a GeForce7 without problems 15kHz "only".

I'm wondering why you get double vertical refresh with some resolutions without feeding some special modelines in.

P.S. Its Hz in vertical, not kHz :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 21, 2007, 11:39:50 am
Is there any suggestions or further tests you want me to preform?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 21, 2007, 12:13:08 pm
Hm... Take a look in the forceware, there should be a tab with costum resolutions, the should all be around 60Hz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 21, 2007, 12:22:01 pm
They all say 60hz reported by OS and  progressive, however 240x240 shows 58.80hz for example. Should I adjust anything?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 21, 2007, 12:41:16 pm
Hm...
Everything should be fine...
Don't know why it doubles the refreshrate
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 21, 2007, 12:42:37 pm
Any way of changing resoultion slighly to see if it will stick to 15hz? I really need 256x256 to run @ 60hz Maybe run 256x260?
Also is there a way to change 352x288  to 60hz? That resolution works but runs games too slow

I just installed 93.71 drivers and also elimated custom31khz.txt and still same behavior.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 22, 2007, 12:22:09 am
Well I can confirm theres something not right with nvidia cards and at least with my monitor.

I tried installing a geforce 6800 gtx and all resolutions doubled not just some.
So I installed a ATI x300SE and guess what all resolutions now run @ 15khz so there is something up with the nvidia cards. You may want to look into this further Sailor.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 22, 2007, 06:09:37 am
Thats pretty much impossible without such a card :(
My 6600GT and my 7600GT (both AGP) work fine.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 22, 2007, 08:54:25 am
well I m not the only one who eperiened this issue. These are PCI-E cards not AGP though.
There is a issue though for sure.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Jetto Funk on December 24, 2007, 09:08:04 am
Sweet, maybe I won't need a new video card after all :D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on December 31, 2007, 11:29:47 pm
Anyone try a ATI 3850HD???
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Lilwolf on January 09, 2008, 08:52:46 pm
rrrr...  I had everything working GREAT!  Then my C drive died, had to run some disk checks... killed windows... had to run a repair install of XP over my old one.

Now I'm having problems in 1/2 of the resolutions that soft-15 added!  If I run SF type games, I get an out of range on my betson monitor (which handles 15, 25 and more).

How do I find out how many resolutions are available?  (quickres always throws up a TON of them). 
How do I find out what resolution MAME is trying to run?
How do I test each resolution by hand?  (quickres isn't showing that many resolutions)

Thanks! 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Lilwolf on January 09, 2008, 08:58:52 pm
double rrrr... just realized that after I uninstalled the soft15 resolutions, it STILL has problems with a bunch of mame games now... !@#$

Its showing up as 45khz and 60hz for a bunch of them (pacman/sf2/upndown).

Is it time for a reinstall of the XP?   Thanks!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 10, 2008, 02:53:56 am
You should rather reinstall the ATI drivers.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Lilwolf on January 10, 2008, 05:27:28 pm
Tried that before posting...  Uninstalled the ATI drivers and then went back to the Omega drivers... no go... reinstalled the ATI drivers... no go...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 11, 2008, 01:02:20 am
Hm... Then something is messed up. Can't help you on that without lookin first hand :(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Lilwolf on January 17, 2008, 08:50:08 am
I got it working.  I uninstalled, then rebooted, then reinstalled.  I think up until then, I had done one, but not both uninstall/reinstall and rebooting together.   I put off fixing it for a few days because I thought I was going to reinstall the OS anyway (newer drive) but now I'm probably going to put that off also.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on January 24, 2008, 08:25:05 am
Has anyone tested a latest generation ATI video card. Just wondering if it works well with soft 15
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 24, 2008, 09:15:35 am
As far as i know, the HD2400 doesn't work with resolution below 321x240.
But I haven't tried yet.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on January 24, 2008, 02:54:09 pm
what about the 3850 or 3870HD??
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on January 25, 2008, 01:19:57 pm
As far as i know, the HD2400 doesn't work with resolution below 321x240.
But I haven't tried yet.

Is this becoming a market trend?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on January 30, 2008, 10:11:35 pm
Hey sailor
Take a look at the last video card in that thread. the geforce 7300. He has the doubling of same refresh and uses a custom file to remove and re add.
 Seems like my 7850GT is doubling certain resolutions. Take a look at my post about certain resolutions double. Could that be ena fix for my issue. The thing is I dont have card anymore. If this is the fix you may want to add it to the FAQ

http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=7925&page=3

remove 288x240
remove 296x240
remove 256x256
remove 240x240
remove 321x256
remove 352x256
remove 352x264
modeline '288x240@59,305' 6,2 288 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240@59,305' 6,2 296 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x256@59,697' 7,47 352 352 405 450 256 257 260 271 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x264@59,697' 7,47 352 352 405 458 264 265 268 279 -hsync -vsync
modeline '321x256@59,014' 6,45 321 336 368 414 256 258 261 280 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x256@60,436' 5,3 256 272 296 352 256 260 263 277 -hsync -vsync
modeline '240x240@60,436' 5,3 240 240 280 336 240 244 247 261 -hsync -vsync

     
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on January 31, 2008, 02:32:50 pm
Update I just got a hold of a Nividia 7950GT and guess what. After adding that information from previous post and putting it into a custom15khz.txt It works like a charm. No more line doubling.

Sailor you need to add this to your FAQ for nivida 7 series cards.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on January 31, 2008, 03:25:51 pm
When mame selects a resolution for a game, does it take refresh rate into account?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on January 31, 2008, 03:40:26 pm
I have few questions that were probably already asked and answered but it may have been long enough to change by now.

Does it work on XP pro yet?

does it work with the AVres Tool?

has anyone tried it with a AGP with alot of power like a 256MB or 512MB etc?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on January 31, 2008, 04:57:31 pm
Does it work on XP pro yet?

Worked fine for me when I tested today.

Quote
has anyone tried it with a AGP with alot of power like a 256MB or 512MB etc?

Can't see how that this would make any difference at all, but worked fine on a 256MB AGP card for me.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 31, 2008, 05:38:14 pm
When mame selects a resolution for a game, does it take refresh rate into account?

Per default yes, but it would rather select 70hz for pacman (60.6060... Hz) than 60hz.
However that one doesn't count on Soft-15kHz as it adds all resolution with 60Hz to Windows.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 31, 2008, 05:39:48 pm
does it work with the AVres Tool?
yup.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on January 31, 2008, 05:43:58 pm
Per default yes, but it would rather select 70hz for pacman (60.6060... Hz) than 60hz.
However that one doesn't count on Soft-15kHz as it adds all resolution with 60Hz to Windows.

Ok thanks. I'm looking at creating a bunch of resolutions with carying refresh rates (e.g. 57Hz etc...), as games at that refresh don't go down well at 60Hz...

If there is no limit on number of resolutions, you could create a lot varying refresh rates....?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 31, 2008, 06:08:40 pm
atm. theres a limit of 31 resolution on nvidia and 5 on intel (but thats not even in the public alpha yet)
none on ati, 3dfx and matrox
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on January 31, 2008, 06:27:48 pm
atm. theres a limit of 31 resolution on nvidia and 5 on intel (but thats not even in the public alpha yet)
none on ati, 3dfx and matrox

ATI on everything here. So in theory, you could go the advancemame route and create an exact custom resolution for every single different resolution.... although I imagine there are advantages to restricting the number a bit to keep things displaying without monitor adjustments (depending on your monitor).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on February 01, 2008, 03:14:09 pm
atm. theres a limit of 31 resolution on nvidia and 5 on intel (but thats not even in the public alpha yet)
none on ati, 3dfx and matrox

ATI on everything here. So in theory, you could go the advancemame route and create an exact custom resolution for every single different resolution.... although I imagine there are advantages to restricting the number a bit to keep things displaying without monitor adjustments (depending on your monitor).


Yes, slightly different timings can and often will affect screen geometry, but it won't be enough to shift it to a different mode on the monitor. The ultimarc/soft15 modes seem to be good approximations to meet 95% (or more, I don't know as I'm not a pokerom) of cases. It depends how picky you are. I think the really picky advancemame users create a special timing for each game. Incidentally, it seems Advancemame and regular MAME treat the same modes/timings differently.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: alui on February 01, 2008, 11:56:37 pm
I've installed the Soft-15KHz (all 3 modes) on my P4 PC w/ the 6600GT video card and everything seems to be running great.  The only games I seem to have some slight problems with are the vector games, in particular, Tempest.  In Tempest, the game seems to have shifted slighted down on my WG D9200 monitor.  Is there any way to correct this?  Also, these vector games are significantly dimmer than the regular mame games.  How can I brighten them up?  And why are there no resolution listed (0x0) for these vector games?

I'm also wondering if there is an English version of the document which explains how to calculate custom resolution settings.

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 02, 2008, 04:24:54 am
Vector Games use another type of monitor, and don't have a "real" resolution (altough you could a define a min and a max value for the beam position), thats why the show a resolution of 0x0.

As for the brightness... Theres some option in mame.ini to increase brightness.
Try to increase "beam" to 1.25 or something (2.0 is really bright!).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 02, 2008, 11:09:51 am
Yes, slightly different timings can and often will affect screen geometry, but it won't be enough to shift it to a different mode on the monitor. The ultimarc/soft15 modes seem to be good approximations to meet 95% (or more, I don't know as I'm not a pokerom) of cases. It depends how picky you are. I think the really picky advancemame users create a special timing for each game. Incidentally, it seems Advancemame and regular MAME treat the same modes/timings differently.
Ok thanks.

I'm not that picky , so will proably just go with the standard - although I think getting correct refresh rates is most important as it stops all the nasty juddering/tearing on scrolling...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 02, 2008, 11:57:02 am
just enable tripple buffering and disable "throttling" and you will never have any tearing again ;)

to bad mame doesn't export the "real" modeline of the hardware it emulates (okay neogeo mentions the modeline in the source)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 02, 2008, 02:11:16 pm
just enable tripple buffering and disable "throttling" and you will never have any tearing again ;)

to bad mame doesn't export the "real" modeline of the hardware it emulates (okay neogeo mentions the modeline in the source)

Really? I appear to still have difficulty. Triple buffering helps but seems to cause odd slowdowns when used with directdraw on my system.

If I enable vsync I get rid of tearing but get that nasty 'jump' every few frames....

What does throttle do exactly - throttle game speed to current vertical refresh?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on February 02, 2008, 09:37:48 pm
just enable tripple buffering and disable "throttling" and you will never have any tearing again ;)

to bad mame doesn't export the "real" modeline of the hardware it emulates (okay neogeo mentions the modeline in the source)

Really? I appear to still have difficulty. Triple buffering helps but seems to cause odd slowdowns when used with directdraw on my system.

If I enable vsync I get rid of tearing but get that nasty 'jump' every few frames....

What does throttle do exactly - throttle game speed to current vertical refresh?

I get an 'erk' every few seconds using triplebuffer on some games. Mainly namco vertical games - pac, mspac, and mappy. As for throttle, uncheck it and the game runs at the horizontal refresh. FAST. Maybe it's different in cabmame?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 02, 2008, 10:50:53 pm
throttle keepts the game run at "100%" original speed.
if you disable it, the game runs as fast as it can.

tripplebuffer limits the game to the vertical refresh rate (i.e. 60hz)
however there still is the "frameskip" which should be set to 0 to avoid those "bumps".

the downside is that the sound gets disorted a little (some games more, some games less) until your useing either cabmame or mameuifx (or any other mame version with a soundsync "hack")


there's allways a small tradeoff in "perfect" emulation until you get the perfect modeline.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 03, 2008, 06:05:41 am
throttle keepts the game run at "100%" original speed.
if you disable it, the game runs as fast as it can.

Thats what I thought.

Quote
tripplebuffer limits the game to the vertical refresh rate (i.e. 60hz)
however there still is the "frameskip" which should be set to 0 to avoid those "bumps".

Not sure I agree with you on thisthere. frameskip is 0 and self-explanatory - the "bump" is not a skipped frame, its a problem mosty visible on smooth scrolling games, where there is a difference between the screen refresh and the original games screen reresh. e.g. dragon ninja - horizontal scroller - 57Hz. Running mame at 60Hz, you can see a bump every few frames as it scrolls..?

Anyway, I need to look up what difference triplebuffer makes and why it stops tearing as I think all the "sync to vertical refresh" options are rather important here too....
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on February 03, 2008, 08:55:39 pm
I think it's like she said at the end, Silver. That's the reason for Advancemame. By the way, did you notice the ATI update in my thread?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 04, 2008, 01:15:18 pm
I think it's like she said at the end, Silver. That's the reason for Advancemame. By the way, did you notice the ATI update in my thread?

Oh, I agree there is always a tradeoff...

...It's just that it currently sounds like soft15Khz+ATI card allows for unlimited number of custom modelines. Which is basically what advancemame offers, except that advancemame calculates the perfect one for each game. Simply creating a few at varying frequencies, alongside the 60Hz ones, should be a pain free way of removing both the jerky issue and the sound issue in one go?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 04, 2008, 01:22:36 pm
or just use cabmame or mameuifx which include a simple yet fantastic "hack" that fixes the sound.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 04, 2008, 03:19:05 pm
or just use cabmame or mameuifx which include a simple yet fantastic "hack" that fixes the sound.

Ok I'll take a look. Can't see cabmame anywhere, though mameuifx pops up easily enough - I notice that you are credited with the sound/audio hack. Out of curiousity what is the change? Or - why is the audio/video not synced in regular mame?

Obviously won't fix the scrolling jitters though.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 04, 2008, 05:52:52 pm
http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=9555

there is link for cabmame.

You can use the .diff file and compile your own build of mame if you just want to apply the sound hack. I use hack plus hi.diff to remove nag screens. Headkaze made a simple GUI FE to recompile mame source.

Question for sailor. I see you removed the neogeo.diff. Can you tell me what is the specific .diff files I need just to apply the soundsync fix to mame.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 05, 2008, 12:51:50 am
@bent98: emuspeed and soundsync should do the job

@silver: autoframeskip 0, throttle 0, tripplebuffer (or vsync) 1 - scrolling smooth as butter.
base mame is aiming for perfect emulation, and fiddling with the sound speed to match the video speed is not perfect ;)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on February 05, 2008, 01:22:13 am
Oh, I agree there is always a tradeoff...

...It's just that it currently sounds like soft15Khz+ATI card allows for unlimited number of custom modelines. Which is basically what advancemame offers, except that advancemame calculates the perfect one for each game. Simply creating a few at varying frequencies, alongside the 60Hz ones, should be a pain free way of removing both the jerky issue and the sound issue in one go?



It might be. I had the idea of adding a modeline in Advancemame using the data from a soft15 modeline. Advancemame displayed it at slightly higher refresh - something like, 16.4khz (and a little lower or higher than 60hz). For some reason, it doesn't display all it's modes at 15khz, as the arcade vga and soft15 do. Mame just does what you tell it. Advancemame does something with it. Not necessarily one way or the other, but it is interesting.

I also noticed some difference in behavior between my Geforce Ti200 + soft15 and the arcade vga. For example, I have polepos set to 256x240 and I get a 'user mode' with the arcade vga but the Ti200 ends up doing 640x224 on the same monitor. Also with the Ti200 + soft15, I put on triplebuffer on Mappy (or any 224x288 game), and it was smooth. Not so on the arcade vga.


SailorSat: what is the limiting factor on Nvidia cards?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 05, 2008, 01:45:35 am
SailorSat: what is the limiting factor on Nvidia cards?

A "bug" in the ForceWare.
They read/write from/to the CUST_MODE registry key with a 3000 byte buffer, while one mode is 92 bytes.
32 Modes * 92 Byte = 2944 Bytes = fine.
33 Modes * 92 Byte = 3036 Bytes = buffer overrun.

If you add more modes via the default NVidia controls you'll end up with garbage in the registry the first way.
If you add more modes via Soft-15kHz the data in the registry is fine.
However, on bootup, the driver reads only those 3000 bytes, which cuts off the 33rd mode and anthing behind it, causing the whole CUST_MODE string getting detected as "faulty" and droped, hence the card generates the modes itself IN 31kHz.

*EDIT*
It may be possible to "hack" the driver to increase the buffer size, however I'm not that good in disasembling drivers :)
If anyone does, please also take a look on the Intel Driver ;D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 05, 2008, 07:29:57 am
@silver: autoframeskip 0, throttle 0, tripplebuffer (or vsync) 1 - scrolling smooth as butter.
base mame is aiming for perfect emulation, and fiddling with the sound speed to match the video speed is not perfect ;)

Ok thanks. sounds like a reasonable workaround, as speedup/slowdown and pitch shift will be quite small for most games, although I'll still look at custom resolutions at varying frequencies.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 05, 2008, 08:09:38 am
hm... my current build (not public yet) includes an option for seperate "user modes" already, it should be possible to enhance those, so they don't get added with "fixed 60hz" to windows, but rather their "real" vertical refresh. 640x480 @59Hz anyone?

(there's an extra button "install user", and an extra textfile called usermodes.txt, so you don't have to modify the base modelines)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 05, 2008, 09:43:52 am
They way it stands right now with the limitation of 31 modelines for nividia cards, how many do we have right now? Just wondering with your new build of soft 15khz if it gives nvidia users room to add additonal modelines. Or is it keep exsiting modelines and just add addtional refresh rates?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 05, 2008, 10:07:52 am
if I remember correctly... 29 @15khz modes, 2 additional @25khz, 6 changed @31khz
so if you only use 15khz, you can define two or three new modes without removing some of the base modes.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 05, 2008, 10:33:48 am
Do you mind if I ask when you will be making your newversion of soft 15khz available to the public?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 05, 2008, 10:44:09 am
Do you mind if I ask when you will be making your newversion of soft 15khz available to the public?

"when it's done" :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on February 05, 2008, 01:12:03 pm
hm... my current build (not public yet) includes an option for seperate "user modes" already, it should be possible to enhance those, so they don't get added with "fixed 60hz" to windows, but rather their "real" vertical refresh. 640x480 @59Hz anyone?

(there's an extra button "install user", and an extra textfile called usermodes.txt, so you don't have to modify the base modelines)

Though I have a copy of Winmodelines, as the site is down, everyone else is going to have to use your new version for that. Incidentally, it doesn't have any stock modes like yours, and I kept getting line errors so I gave up.

Slightly off topic: you might consider putting links to soft15 and cabmame in your signature or whatever.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tisurame on February 05, 2008, 09:41:56 pm
@bent98: emuspeed and soundsync should do the job

@silver: autoframeskip 0, throttle 0, tripplebuffer (or vsync) 1 - scrolling smooth as butter.
base mame is aiming for perfect emulation, and fiddling with the sound speed to match the video speed is not perfect ;)

So, using MAMEUIFX32 (or cabmame), do I also need to enable "Synchronize audio with video" ?

What about "Sync to monitor refresh" and "Refresh speed" ?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 06, 2008, 01:39:06 am
So, using MAMEUIFX32 (or cabmame), do I also need to enable "Synchronize audio with video" ?
yeah.

What about "Sync to monitor refresh" and "Refresh speed" ?
don't enable.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 06, 2008, 05:06:40 am
Build 37 online.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 06, 2008, 11:15:43 am
Hey Sailor

Great new on the new release. I see this is whats new:

Alpha Build 37 (February 06. 2008)
"User" resolutions added. (usermodes.txt)
Attention! These are added with their real vertical refresh to windows.


Intel GMA and EGD drivers added. (experimental)


"doublescan" modelines featured on NVidia and 3Dfx.


New command-line switch.
-ius - installs "User" resolutions

Are you going to update the FAQ and get some more info how to utilize the new features?

Also on the doublescan" modelines featured on NVidia and 3Dfx. update does that mean I dont need to run a custom 15khz.txt file to fix that??

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 06, 2008, 11:18:35 am
it just means it accepts modelines with the "doublescan" flag.
and if you add a modeline, say 400x300 @ 55Hz to the "usermodes.txt" it will show up in windows as 55hz, if you add the same modeline to custom15khz.txt it will show up as 60hz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 06, 2008, 12:13:31 pm
it just means it accepts modelines with the "doublescan" flag.
and if you add a modeline, say 400x300 @ 55Hz to the "usermodes.txt" it will show up in windows as 55hz, if you add the same modeline to custom15khz.txt it will show up as 60hz.

Ah, did not realise the custom15Khz.txt forced vertical refresh to 60hz. Excellent, will use usermodes.txt
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 06, 2008, 12:18:13 pm
Ah, did not realise the custom15Khz.txt forced vertical refresh to 60hz. Excellent, will use usermodes.txt

Na, it only show 60hz in the resolution list, the resolution itself is output correctly.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 06, 2008, 12:41:10 pm
it just means it accepts modelines with the "doublescan" flag.
and if you add a modeline, say 400x300 @ 55Hz to the "usermodes.txt" it will show up in windows as 55hz, if you add the same modeline to custom15khz.txt it will show up as 60hz.

1) I am not sure I understand. Can you explain further. Do I still need add:

remove 288x240
remove 296x240
remove 256x256
remove 240x240
remove 321x256
remove 352x256
remove 352x264
modeline '288x240@59,305' 6,2 288 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240@59,305' 6,2 296 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x256@59,697' 7,47 352 352 405 450 256 257 260 271 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x264@59,697' 7,47 352 352 405 458 264 265 268 279 -hsync -vsync
modeline '321x256@59,014' 6,45 321 336 368 414 256 258 261 280 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x256@60,436' 5,3 256 272 296 352 256 260 263 277 -hsync -vsync
modeline '240x240@60,436' 5,3 240 240 280 336 240 244 247 261 -hsync -vsync

or is that incorperated into the new version of soft 15.

2) Concering usermodes.txt do they conflict with the standard modelines? What i mean is can you have the same resolution twice with a different refresh? How does one tell Mame to use the different refresh? Is it just for example 240x240@59 in the rom.ini file for the game?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 06, 2008, 12:46:33 pm
1) I am not sure I understand. Can you explain further. Do I still need add:

<CUT>

or is that incorperated into the new version of soft 15.

No it's not, as it works fine on most cards without those changes.

2) Concering usermodes.txt do they conflict with the standard modelines? What i mean is can you have the same resolution twice with a different refresh? How does one tell Mame to use the different refresh? Is it just for example 240x240@59 in the rom.ini file for the game?
Exactly that way.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 06, 2008, 01:53:59 pm
1) I am not sure I understand. Can you explain further. Do I still need add:

<CUT>

or is that incorperated into the new version of soft 15.

No it's not, as it works fine on most cards without those changes.



So for clarification if I still need the custom15khz.txt what do you you mean by "accepts modelines with the "doublescan" flag"??

I dont want to be bothersome I just am not clear on what it means.

Thanks again Sailor.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 06, 2008, 02:35:01 pm
doublescan is a modeline flag, just like -hsync or interlace.
it simply means that each line is output TWICE.
i.e. 320x240 is output as 320x480.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on February 06, 2008, 05:50:52 pm
I've had some other computer trouble in the last day. One I got fixed, another I have no idea on, but before them, I had stopped some win services with idea of freeing up memory and such and now when I click on any version of soft15 I get a "runtime error '5' invalid procedure call or argument". Do you know what could be the issue here, SS?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 06, 2008, 09:05:52 pm
I sent an email to the omega driver team in hopes they can hack the 3000 byte buffer limitation on the forceware drivers. I really would like to fiddle with the usermodes.txt feature.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 07, 2008, 01:23:03 am
I've had some other computer trouble in the last day. One I got fixed, another I have no idea on, but before them, I had stopped some win services with idea of freeing up memory and such and now when I click on any version of soft15 I get a "runtime error '5' invalid procedure call or argument". Do you know what could be the issue here, SS?

Err... Okay ^^,
I'm pretty clueless on that one.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gaijin4life on February 07, 2008, 02:53:56 am
I'm still in the dark about how to get this running properly on the arcade monitor.  I have a TinyXP PC running a Matrox Millennium II / PCI 8MB with the last released Matrox drivers for this card.  I run Soft15khz (from a folder called Soft15k), and select the Matrox card, then hit the "install 15k" button.  At this point it's still hooked to a PC LCD.  I then load quickres and the list of available resolutions is long and strong.  I select 320x240.  I then switch the VGA connector to the one going to the JPAC in the cabinet and get a double side-by side flickering image of the 320x240 tinyxp desktop on the arcade monitor, which is a Wells-Gardener 7602.  I'm sure this is related to the refresh rate or interlace (or lack thereof), but I cannot figure out what I'm doing wrong.  Ideas?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 07, 2008, 02:56:50 am
You know you need to reboot after installing?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gaijin4life on February 07, 2008, 02:59:34 am
Oh, sorry, yes.  There was a reboot after the Soft15k, but before the quickres.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 07, 2008, 03:01:57 am
There should be no resolution of 320x240 with Soft-15kHz.
Try switching to 640x480 first.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gaijin4life on February 07, 2008, 03:09:22 am
I just redid this to see what was happening.

If I *don't* reboot, I get a huge list in quickres - double image when I switch over to the arcade monitor.

If I *do* reboot, I only get 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768 at various color depths in quickres.  Still a side-by side image on the arcade monitor at 16/24/32 bit 640x480.

So you're saying I need to run soft15k (once), reboot, then select 640x480x32bit in quickres and then switch the connector to the arcade monitor?  If so, I've done that but still get the side-by side half images on the WG7602 arcade monitor.

(BTW, thanks for the great help)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 07, 2008, 03:19:12 am
That more sounds like it doesn't work at all. You shouldn't be able to see anything on the LCD after the reboot.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gaijin4life on February 07, 2008, 03:28:54 am
So the fact that I can see windows on the LCD monitor means that it's not working?  If it does work, I should get an "out of range" message, then?

If that's the case, it isn't working, then, even though the install program seems to indicate that it thinks it's installed and working.

Any ideas on what I can check/change?

The one thing that may be causing problems is that this motherboard has a built-in AGP Intel845GL video circuit.  I've disabled it, but it might be worth mentioning.  I initially tried installing Soft15khz with that, but it would only show up greyed out and was not selectable, so I disabled it and put the Matrox card in.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 07, 2008, 03:31:21 am
Hm... What driver version is "the newest"? Should be something like 5.92 or 5.94.
Do you have any other card available? (a GeForce or a Radeon?)

*EDIT*
The OnBoard Intel shouldn't interfere.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gaijin4life on February 07, 2008, 03:38:35 am
Version is 5.33 006

Where is the 5.92 version for the PCI Millennium II?  I didn't see anything that high on Matrox's site for that card.

Edit: Nevermind.  I found 5.82.018 in their legacy section.  I'll try that now.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 07, 2008, 03:42:16 am
Hm...
http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/corpo/support/drivers/latest/home.php

Last version for the Millenium II on XP should be 5.82
http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/corpo/support/drivers/files/w2k_582.cfm
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gaijin4life on February 07, 2008, 04:00:01 am
Partial success!

I uninstalled Soft15khz, then the prior matrox driver, and installed the new matrox driver (called "final" on their site), then rebooted, then reinstalled soft15khz, then rebooted but the image was still visible on the LCD.  I had to go into matrox's monitor adjust controls and select 60 for the refresh manually then the lcd went out and soft15khz seemed to kick in.

I can SEE the windows desktop fine (well blurry, but overall okay) now on the WG7602.  However, then I try to run mame (neogeo roms on mamepp), it says the requested video mode is unavailable and Direct3D failed.  I'm running DirectX8.  Seems like I'm pretty close.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 07, 2008, 04:12:22 am
Either set Direct3D Version to 8 in MAME, or try DirectDraw.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gaijin4life on February 07, 2008, 04:23:59 am
MAME was setting itself to version 8 automatically (at least it reported that in "-verbose" mode), so I'll give DirectDraw a shot.  Thanks for getting me this far so that the Soft15Khz is working!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 07, 2008, 04:28:59 am
Now that I think of it...
I don't think the (ancient) Millenium II does support Direct3D 8 either, so DirectDraw is the way to go.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 07, 2008, 07:19:13 am
Sailor can you post some additional usermodelines that you use for mame?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 07, 2008, 07:53:49 am
Err... Not really, I just use the base ones :)
However I got something lurking around.

We have the "Cruis'n"-Resolution (25kHz though)
modeline "512x400 25kHz 57Hz" 15,87 512 576 640 640 400 404 408 435 -hsync -vsync
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 07, 2008, 09:32:18 am
Cool.

Hey just to test since I am limited with modelines right now on nvidia card. can you tell me what modeline would run pacman as close as possible to its orginal state. Keep in mind I am running a Bilabs 27 inch monitor in the horizontal position.


thanks sailor

Btw I havent heard back from the omega driver team yet. I know you had mentioned intel driver limit. When he responses to my email I can ask about that too. Do you want to tell me specifically what to ask about the intel driver need to be addressed?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 07, 2008, 10:01:59 am
Hey just to test since I am limited with modelines right now on nvidia card. can you tell me what modeline would run pacman as close as possible to its orginal state. Keep in mind I am running a Bilabs 27 inch monitor in the horizontal position.
Err... Is that a Multisync Monitor or just 15kHz?
In 15kHz you would use 352x288, however the game will be slowed down from 60Hz to 50Hz.
In 25kHz i would use 512x384, although you will get some borders above and below.

Its quite impossible to get close to its real state on a standard Arcade Monitor, although it COULD be possible your monitor can go up to something like 16.5kHz, and a vertical refresh of say 55 to 56Hz, however I wouldn't fool around with that as it would certainly not work with other games/resolutions.


Btw I havent heard back from the omega driver team yet. I know you had mentioned intel driver limit. When he responses to my email I can ask about that too. Do you want to tell me specifically what to ask about the intel driver need to be addressed?
Somewhere in there should be a counter running from 1 to 5, in Intel GMA drivers it references to "DTD_#" where # is the number. In the Intel Embedded drivers the same happens, although the registry key has another name.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 07, 2008, 10:54:35 am
27" 15~48 kHz VeriFlat™
Autosync™

CGA/EGA/VGA/SVGA/XGA Penta-Resolution
V-Freq. 47~90 Hz

those are the specs so yes I can do 16.5hz. Would you be able to give me the specifix modeline that in your option would best run pacman.

thanks again for your help sailor
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 07, 2008, 11:15:04 am
Be VERY carefull :) I don't belive there are that many monitors that support 15kHz - 31kHz, most support only 15-16kHz, 24-25kHz, 31+kHz.

However here we have 3 modelines running 352x288 pixel resolution with real 55Hz, 57Hz or 60Hz

Code: [Select]
modeline '352x288 18,7kHz 60Hz' 8,68 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x288 17,7kHz 57Hz' 8,25 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x288 17,1kHz 55Hz' 7,96 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync
Those are way higher than 16.5kHz ("extended resolution").

Although your monitor won't blow up if it doesn't work.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 07, 2008, 03:27:09 pm
Interesting modelines -  I've got an old NEC presentation monitor stored away that will genuinely do 15-31Khz. I'll have a test at some stage...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on February 07, 2008, 04:44:32 pm
Either set Direct3D Version to 8 in MAME, or try DirectDraw.

Ahem. gaijin HAS to use DirectDraw to properly display native resolutions. If you want to know why, gaijin, read the Ultimarc monitor faq.


Be VERY carefull :) I don't belive there are that many monitors that support 15kHz - 31kHz, most support only 15-16kHz, 24-25kHz, 31+kHz.

This one can. It spans something like 14.5-23khz, then jumps I think to 25-31.5, and maybe jumps again.


Interesting modelines -  I've got an old NEC presentation monitor stored away that will genuinely do 15-31Khz. I'll have a test at some stage...

Not only a good test device, but also a good project monitor. What are you using soft15 with?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 07, 2008, 05:41:02 pm
Ahem. gaijin HAS to use DirectDraw to properly display native resolutions. If you want to know why, gaijin, read the Ultimarc monitor faq.

Not really... Hey COULD be using cabMAME ;)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on February 07, 2008, 07:36:04 pm
Not really... Hey COULD be using cabMAME ;)

I don't know what in your build would make it different regarding native res. By the way, no more error. I have a suspicion it was a virus/malware thing that required an update in software.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 07, 2008, 10:34:57 pm
I used a low res modeline generator and I get different number sailor. How do you cacluate the ones you came up with?


Also I tried using new build of soft 15 and when I click on install user

give me 'runtime error 9' subscript out of range

I did have a usermodes.txt with

modeline '352x288 17,7kHz 57Hz' 8,25 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync

Once I took out usermodes.txt It let me install user. What am I doing wrong?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gaijin4life on February 08, 2008, 12:33:46 am
So I am now operational with a frontend on MAMEPP.  THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP with Soft15khz.  The hardest part was that I wasn't sure what was supposed to happen after the Soft15khz was installed.  Once it was clear that it was installed but not working, sending me off to get a newer Matrox driver, everything fell into place.

For the record, here's the steps to get it running on a Matrox Millennium II:

1. Install Matrox drivers. Version 5.82 is the final version for XP.
2. Reboot.
3. Install Soft15khz by running the program in a writeable directory and selecting the appropriate install (15, 25, 31, USER).
4. REBOOT.
5. When XP comes back up, it should no longer be visible on the computer monitor, if you get "out of range" that's good!
6. If you got "out of range" on your computer monitor after reboot when the windows desktop should have come up, switch the connector to your arcade monitor - it should be visible as a solid image now.  If you can still see windows on your computer monitor but not the arcade monitor, you may need to tweak Matrox montior settings.  Select the custom controls and UNCHECK "simple controls".  Select 640x480x32bit 60hz.
7. Once the desktop is visible, run mame from the command line with "mame - cc" to make a configuration file mame.ini.
8. Edit the newly created mame.ini file and replace "d3d" with "dd" so Mame will use DirectDraw instead of Direct3D.

At that point everything should work!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 08, 2008, 01:34:19 am
I don't know what in your build would make it different regarding native res.
cabMAME doesn't stretch die image to full resolution as base mame does.

I used a low res modeline generator and I get different number sailor. How do you cacluate the ones you came up with?
i just used the modeline already in soft15kHz and simply pulled up the pixel clock.

Also I tried using new build of soft 15 and when I click on install user

give me 'runtime error 9' subscript out of range
i'll look into it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 08, 2008, 01:52:49 am
sh*t... another time that stupid decimal seperators...
build 38 is up.

i didn't convert it at ONE point... nice find bent :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 08, 2008, 06:22:05 am
sh*t... another time that stupid decimal seperators...

I used a low res modeline generator and I get different number sailor. How do you cacluate the ones you came up with?

bent98 - if you are copying and pasting modelines from soft15Khz/this thread and pasting them into an online converter you need to note the decimal seperator.

I used an online modeline calculator which comes up with an incorrect result if you plug in:

modeline '352x288 17,7kHz 57Hz' 8,25 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync

as it does not read the 17,7 correctly. You need to change it to 17.7 instead.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 08, 2008, 06:25:32 am
Interesting modelines -  I've got an old NEC presentation monitor stored away that will genuinely do 15-31Khz. I'll have a test at some stage...

Not only a good test device, but also a good project monitor. What are you using soft15 with?

It's my plan to use it as a project monitor once I build a cab (several years in the planning so far...). I've actually got 2, but both need a bit of work and one does not appear to support the full scan range (does 15-17Khz, then jumps to 28khz or so). The other appears to support everything. Sadly I keep them stored away most of the time as they are absolutely massive and ridiculously heavy!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 08, 2008, 07:20:26 am
I didnt get a chance to try to test build 38 but with the new build I still need to change  17,7 to 17.7 in usermodes.txt right?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 08, 2008, 07:41:09 am
I didnt get a chance to try to test build 38 but with the new build I still need to change  17,7 to 17.7 in usermodes.txt right?

Soft-15kHz will read both.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 08, 2008, 09:24:43 am
Sailor the modeline creation is confusing to me. Is there somewhere I could read up on it further or maybe you can shed some additonal light on the subject. Still not sure on how you came up with those values for the three test modes you told me to try out for pacman.

Secondly the issue I was having with my geforce 7950 doubleing refresh on certain resolutions. The fix was using those alternate modelines remedy the doubling.  How were the created? listed below

modeline '240x240@58,795' 4,83 240 252 276 310 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync (Soft 15 default)

modeline '240x240@60,436' 5,3 240 240 280 336 240 244 247 261 -hsync -vsync (nvidia geforce 7 friendly)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 08, 2008, 09:32:41 am
Read http://easymamecab.mameworld.net/html/monitor1.htm, it pretty much describes it all.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 08, 2008, 06:25:25 pm
I just tried out build 38. It installed with no errors.
I added thismodeline '352x288 17,7kHz 57Hz' 8,25 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync
to the usermodes.txt file
I did also see the resolution in forceware custom resolution tab. I tried running pacman and edited the pacman.ini file to reflect 352x288@57

I didnt seem to work. I did not remove orginal modeline 352x288 custom15khz.txt.

I think you said you can have two same resolutions co-exsist.

What am I doing wrong sailor?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 09, 2008, 02:35:23 am
I did also see the resolution in forceware custom resolution tab. I tried running pacman and edited the pacman.ini file to reflect 352x288@57

I didnt seem to work. I did not remove orginal modeline 352x288 custom15khz.txt.

I think you said you can have two same resolutions co-exsist.

What am I doing wrong sailor?
Wait... I'll just take a look in my magical orb...
Don't know what you did :)

If you see the resolution in the forceware you should also see TWO refresh rates (57Hz and 60Hz)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 09, 2008, 08:07:48 am
Yes I do see two.

I then edited pacman ini and updated the resolution to all reflect the proper refresh rate 352x288@57

than ran pacman

Once I ran PACMAN it seem to run it at the default 352x288  rez. Is there something im missing?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 09, 2008, 08:36:07 am
Try running MAME with -verbose and look what it says.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 11, 2008, 08:53:33 am
I removed the orginal res in custom15.txt and then it tried to grab the custom rez u made.

Only thing was monitor couldnt sync to it.

o well
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on February 11, 2008, 03:52:16 pm
I don't know what in your build would make it different regarding native res.
cabMAME doesn't stretch die image to full resolution as base mame does.

Um...when I select D3D on cabmame, I get a very little image.


Here's a question for you: I notice different timings of the same resolution will shift the image around the screen. Is it possible to create a timing specific to one's hardware that will minimize the amount of monitor adjustment of the image?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 11, 2008, 03:56:01 pm
Yup.
However you will need some kind of "tool" for it.
I think I'll create something like that.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 11, 2008, 07:55:02 pm
Yup.
However you will need some kind of "tool" for it.
I think I'll create something like that.

That would be great...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 11, 2008, 08:43:57 pm
yes it would
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on February 12, 2008, 08:18:44 pm
Ah. I think Advancemame tries to do this to some degree, but I think to get something very efficient it takes setting the rc file right. An app would sure bridge the gap. Thank you.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gique on February 17, 2008, 12:52:28 am
I have a cabinet set up with a rotated monitor (vertical)  - is it possible to set my pc display to be rotated 90 degrees via video card settings, and then Soft 15khz to set 240x320  so that windows is viewed correctly in low resolution on the rotated screen?

this isnt a mame related issue, it's for a custom project

thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 17, 2008, 06:46:34 am
That should work.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gique on February 17, 2008, 03:34:35 pm
should i attempt to rotate the display 1st, then switch the resolution, or the other way..

secondly I've been having problems trying to get the modeline calculated - the calculators i've used wont accept that resolution

can anyone assist? 240x320 (or 240x321) @ 15khz

thanks as always.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 17, 2008, 03:41:37 pm
nanana, keep the default resolution 321x240, as vertical displays work exactly the same way as horizontal ones.
just the image get rotated by the graphics adapter.

just select rotated 90° in your adapters display options.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 25, 2008, 03:42:07 pm
Yup.
However you will need some kind of "tool" for it.
I think I'll create something like that.

Hey,
Any thoughts/progress on this?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 25, 2008, 04:21:08 pm
Didn't go any further than some theoretical test on that yet.
Still waiting for some new cards to test out.

p.s. Radeon HD 2400 Pro works fine with custom resolutions (Pixel Clock needs to be 7.12MHz or higher)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on February 25, 2008, 06:03:16 pm
p.s. Radeon HD 2400 Pro works fine with custom resolutions (Pixel Clock needs to be 7.12MHz or higher)

That's about the lower limit for proper native res, yes?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 25, 2008, 06:05:33 pm
Yeah. WITHOUT custom resolutions you can't go below 352x288.

To get some lower resolutions you'll need a custom15kHz.txt
Code: [Select]
;Remove some "too low" resolutions
remove 240x240
remove 256x240
remove 256x256
remove 256x264
remove 321x256

;ReAdd some "low" resolutions with higher pclock and (way) larger sync width
modeline '288x240@59.885' 7.12 288 332 392 448 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240@59.941' 7.12 296 338 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '304x240@59.305' 7.12 304 344 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '321x240@59.014' 7.12 321 350 392 448 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '336x240@59.749' 7.12 336 356 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 25, 2008, 08:23:10 pm
p.s. Radeon HD 2400 Pro works fine with custom resolutions (Pixel Clock needs to be 7.12MHz or higher)

Ah, I wondered if newer cards were going to end up increasing the pclock floor....

powerstrip used to have a 10Mhz pclock floor inbuilt, and then a 5Mhz one - it should be a bit lower than that now, can't rememner what we ended up with. I thought it was my cards hitting the floor for a while.

I know plenty of radeon cards - 9700/x800 etc... seem to happy to go to down 5Mhz pclock or lower without very large sync widths to fake it, perhaps it would be good to keep a record which modern cards can't cut it.

I think the lowest resolution must be 240x192 for mrdo, or something similar.... I think you need to go under 5Mhz pclock for that (or use massive syncs...)


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 25, 2008, 09:13:45 pm
Incidentally, I meant to post this before in case anyone found it useful. 

Here is a list of all the resolutions and refresh rates used in mame (0.123) according to listinfo.xml. I've put up 2 lists - one for vertical and one for horizontal, it excludes all clones, and counts the number of games that use a particular resolution & refresh.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=77103.0

I've linked to a seperate post, as I realised it takes up a few screens worth(!).

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 25, 2008, 10:16:23 pm
As for those 192 line modes, I don't really know how they work with 15kHz, as they would need something like 90Hz to get near. The only think I could imagine would be actually 192pixels per line, 240 lines per frame.
*EDIT* Actually it IS exactly that way. (If you double the 192 pix width you end up with 384x240)

Hm... Some resolutions are pretty much bogus...
704x513@60Hz (nclubv3) is just the resolution the system (ST-V) could output, but the game itselt just outputs 384x224 :(
1024x1024 also seems pretty much like some kind of "don't know" resolution.

671x216 is quite weird, but should fit nice into 720x480 or 640x240

504x296 should be possible, maybe added as 512x296 or 512x300 for better compatiblity.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 26, 2008, 08:13:45 am
Yes, there are definitely some errors.

All games which change resolution would be incorrect I imagine (e.g. PSX based) games and some systems (as you spotted) are just wrong.

Narc was wrong in the last version of mame, along with all the other midyunit.c games, which appear to have now been doubled from 27Hz to 54Hz (more likely). The midtunit.c games appear to be suffering the same fate. Not sure if its worth submitting a fix, I've not looked in the drivers to see where the data like this is actually stored. I did post something about this a while back on the mameworld mametesters forum.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 26, 2008, 07:05:29 pm
Quick Query: What is the impact in vanilla mame of running at refresh rate slightly higher than the original game?

e.g. say the game is 256x240 @ 59.18Hz, and you run it at 256x240 @ 60Hz?

I know -syncrefresh will sync the video speed to whatever refresh rate you are running at (i.e. a slight speed up in this case) and that the sound will stutter - hence the sound sync hack in cabmame. (incidentally has anyone submitted that hack to mamedev? If they are providing an option to lock the video emulation surely it makes sense to lock the sound to it?)

But if you don't use -syncrefresh, I presume you will get video stutters too? Either tearing or a repeated frame? Have I missed anything?

I can't really see the point of -syncrefresh in normal mame, as it only works if you have the *exact* refresh to match the game - in which case, you presumably don't need -syncrefresh anyway as your already running at the right speed???

Sorry if this is dumb, it's late and I'm not thinking straight...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 26, 2008, 09:12:39 pm
As far as I know, without syncrefresh, MAME would either skip frames once in a while (if you have vsync an/or tripplebuffer enabled) or simple show tearing (without vsync and tripplebuffer).

About the SoundHack, actually it's a "dirty" hack that only works on Windows.
Aaron invented "refreshspeed" after my soundhack, but it doesn't work too good.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on February 27, 2008, 03:08:03 pm
As for those 192 line modes, I don't really know how they work with 15kHz, as they would need something like 90Hz to get near. The only think I could imagine would be actually 192pixels per line, 240 lines per frame.
*EDIT* Actually it IS exactly that way. (If you double the 192 pix width you end up with 384x240)

Yeah, I notice some advmame configurations will do Mr. Do horizontal games at 90hz. (Others will double the horizontal scan rate. For some reason, the vertical Mr. Do games displayed horizontally aren't ever a problem.) However, these orignally ran at 15/60. With the avga/soft15, I use 240x240.

For most games, regardless if I'm running at different scan rate or refresh (though, one of them will be close - either 15khz or 60hz), I don't have stuttering issues, video or sound. It's only some vertical games (usually 224x288) when displayed horizontally.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gatordad on February 29, 2008, 09:35:15 am
I am fed up with Ati catalyst drivers, I tried to install the new 8.2 and all hell broke loose, a full 2 hours later I installed the original 6.2 that came on my cd but it keeps complaining that launchpad language something or other failed on boot.

Will soft 15 work with omega dirvers?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 29, 2008, 09:49:53 am
should work, yes
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 29, 2008, 11:02:32 am
I can confirm it will work, when I had my x300 they worked fine
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gatordad on February 29, 2008, 11:16:05 am
I can confirm it will work, when I had my x300 they worked fine
Thanks
I will move to omega drivers this weekend
Good bye catalyst junkware.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on February 29, 2008, 06:45:33 pm
I can confirm it will work, when I had my x300 they worked fine
Thanks
I will move to omega drivers this weekend
Good bye catalyst junkware.

I've had good success just installing the display drivers, and leaving the Catylist Control Centre alone.  There is a seperate download on the ATI/AMD site.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 01, 2008, 08:25:06 am
Updated info.c to output raw video parameters (pixclock, htotal,
hbend, hbstart, vtotal, vbend, vbstart) via -listxml if they have
been given. [couriersud]



I saw this added to MAME 123u3 change file. Sailor what does this mean for us? Does this give us the ablility to get a more accurate display?

Also Ummon shared this link with me today
       
 http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=144515&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 01, 2008, 08:35:36 am
that does mean I'll post a BIG "usermodes.txt" for ATI users soon ;)

*EDIT* scrap that. those "raw video parameters" pretty much sucks ;D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 01, 2008, 10:23:43 am
Now I am really trying to get that 3000 byte buffer increased in the nvidia driver. sailor do you think its possible you could figure out how to do that?

I left serveral messages with the omega driver team and had gotten no response.

I just made a thread in the software forum hoping someone might know how to do this. I really need to have a highend 3d card in my arcade cabinet to run future pinball and some of the new frontends and vector based software like AAE will require it as well.

Is there any possiblilty you would be able to figure out how to increase the buffer size in nivida drivers?

Pretty please??? :'(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on March 01, 2008, 11:11:18 am
Hmm, a huge number of the drivers don't include all the extra video data..... still, quite a lot do, although as seen before there are definately some errors about what is reported by mame/in listxml vs what video modes mame actually uses......

I've attached a list of all the <display.....> elements extracted from the 0.123u3 mame xml...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 01, 2008, 11:14:18 am
Yeah actually it outputs the raw video parameter MAME uses internal, not those the arcade hardware uses.
NeoGeo would be the best example.

I'll generate a list with some "other" way ;)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 01, 2008, 11:18:43 am
Another possiblity was getting a ATI 3850HD card. I saw sailor you tested a 2400hd. Wondering how this 3850Hd would react.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on March 01, 2008, 12:01:18 pm
Don't know too much about the "omega" drivers, but I thought they were just repackaged nvidia drivers, with probably a load of custom registry/inf changes.

I suspect what you need changed lies within the binary driver, so you may need to go back to nvidia to get it sorted.

(NB if omega roll-their-own drivers then great, but I'm guessing not)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 01, 2008, 01:23:40 pm
Yea Nvidia cant fix bugs from last year , I doubt they will tackle this one. If I knew 3850HD worked I would just get one of those
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 01, 2008, 02:45:50 pm
Err... lol :)

I've just tinkered together some "batch modeline generator" for MAME...


First, two screens, without words ;D

(http://images.arianchen.de/misc/lcd01.jpg)
(http://images.arianchen.de/misc/lcd02.jpg)

Yes, thats one of those mahjong lcd resolutions (480x64)...
Pretty funny this actually works!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 01, 2008, 02:46:03 pm
Here's a 15kHz only usermodes.txt.
You'll get an overflow error with Build 38, so for the time being you can fool around with a temporary build 39 ( http://files.arianchen.de/soft15khz/soft15khz_temp.zip )
Code: [Select]
modeline "288x224@61" 6,050909 288 304 352 384 224 236 254 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@61" 5,420606 256 272 312 344 224 236 254 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "272x236@60" 5,6592 272 288 328 360 236 244 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "224x224@61" 4,664242 224 240 264 296 224 236 254 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60" 5,40768 256 272 312 344 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "288x224@60" 6,03648 288 304 352 384 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x224@60" 5,0304 240 256 288 320 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x240@57" 6,670368 321 336 392 424 240 252 270 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x224@60" 10,6896 512 544 616 680 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "480x64@60" 10,0608 480 512 576 640 64 130 229 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x240@60" 10,6896 512 544 616 680 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "640x240@60" 13,45632 640 688 760 856 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x208@60" 5,40768 256 272 312 344 208 226 253 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x208@61" 5,416992 256 272 312 344 208 224 250 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "272x224@60" 5,6592 272 288 328 360 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "272x224@61" 5,672727 272 288 328 360 224 236 254 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x224@60" 6,41376 304 320 376 408 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "288x224@60" 6,052147 288 304 352 384 224 238 257 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline "496x480@30" 10,458 496 528 600 664 480 496 517 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "640x480@30" 13,482 640 688 760 856 480 496 517 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "1024x480@30" 21,546 1024 1088 1240 1368 480 496 517 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "768x480@30" 16,128 768 816 928 1024 480 496 517 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "256x192@60" 5,40768 256 272 312 344 192 216 250 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x192@60" 5,0304 240 256 288 320 192 216 250 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x192@61" 5,030339 240 256 288 320 192 214 246 257 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@60" 5,40768 256 272 312 344 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@59" 5,41572 256 272 312 344 224 238 259 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x448@30" 10,71 512 544 616 680 448 474 512 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "256x240@60" 5,40768 256 272 312 344 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60" 5,416555 256 272 312 344 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "260x224@60" 5,427847 260 276 312 344 224 238 258 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline "376x248@59" 7,932128 376 408 440 504 248 254 262 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x230@60" 5,40768 256 272 312 344 230 240 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x184@60" 5,40768 256 272 312 344 184 210 249 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x248@60" 5,0304 240 256 288 320 248 252 260 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "223x240@50" 4,662 223 239 264 296 240 264 303 315 -hsync -vsync
modeline "352x240@60" 7,426572 352 384 408 472 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x480@30" 10,71 512 544 616 680 480 496 517 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "480x480@30" 10,08 480 512 576 640 480 496 517 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "256x240@59" 5,41572 256 272 312 344 240 248 262 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x224@60" 5,031446 240 256 288 320 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60" 5,423548 256 272 312 344 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x252@57" 5,047376 240 256 288 320 252 260 274 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x240@57" 5,03424 240 256 288 320 240 252 270 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@57" 5,425929 256 272 312 344 224 242 269 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x256@57" 5,04848 240 256 288 320 256 264 274 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@55" 5,41112 256 272 312 344 256 266 281 286 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x256@55" 8,05376 384 416 448 512 256 266 281 286 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x248@55" 8,05376 384 416 448 512 248 260 280 286 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x256@55" 8,056338 384 416 448 512 256 266 281 286 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x256@55" 10,6964 512 544 616 680 256 266 281 286 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x240@60" 8,04864 384 416 448 512 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x240@60" 6,66528 321 336 392 424 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x256@60" 8,04864 384 416 448 512 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@61" 5,413872 256 272 312 344 240 246 255 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "232x224@60" 4,90464 232 248 280 312 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "224x232@60" 4,65312 224 240 264 296 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@59" 5,419032 256 272 312 344 224 238 260 267 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x224@60" 6,66528 321 336 392 424 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "288x208@60" 6,03648 288 304 352 384 208 226 253 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x232@60" 6,66528 321 336 392 424 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x240@57" 8,05674 384 416 448 512 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x224@60" 8,04864 384 416 448 512 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x240@58" 8,06656 384 416 448 512 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x224@59" 6,675876 321 336 392 424 224 238 260 267 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x232@59" 6,675876 321 336 392 424 232 244 261 267 -hsync -vsync
modeline "640x200@60" 13,45632 640 688 760 856 200 220 252 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "264x240@60" 5,53344 264 280 320 352 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "280x240@60" 5,91072 280 296 344 376 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "260x240@60" 5,40768 260 276 312 344 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x240@55" 6,677977 321 336 392 424 240 256 279 287 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x240@56" 6,672064 321 336 392 424 240 254 274 281 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@58" 5,41972 256 272 312 344 224 240 266 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x240@59" 6,679272 321 336 392 424 240 248 263 267 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x240@59" 6,67538 321 336 392 424 240 248 261 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x240@58" 6,686004 321 336 392 424 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x240@58" 8,073665 384 416 448 512 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x224@58" 6,686004 321 336 392 424 224 240 266 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "318x239@58" 6,686004 318 334 392 424 239 251 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "294x238@60" 6,172115 294 310 360 392 238 246 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "316x239@60" 6,675961 316 332 392 424 239 247 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "292x240@60" 6,172115 292 308 360 392 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "292x231@60" 6,172115 292 308 360 392 231 241 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "276x240@60" 5,794231 276 292 336 368 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x240@60" 5,0304 240 256 288 320 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "352x240@60" 7,41984 352 384 408 472 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x224@60" 8,060518 384 416 448 512 224 238 257 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline "360x245@57" 7,55136 360 392 416 480 245 255 271 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "360x240@57" 7,55136 360 392 416 480 240 252 270 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "400x240@60" 8,42592 400 432 472 536 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "360x240@60" 7,5456 360 392 416 480 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x256@60" 8,062992 384 416 448 512 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60" 5,428152 256 272 312 344 224 236 257 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60" 5,428267 256 272 312 344 224 236 257 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x256@60" 10,6896 512 544 616 680 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "280x210@60" 5,91072 280 296 344 376 210 228 253 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x208@60" 5,0304 240 256 288 320 208 226 253 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x224@59" 10,72855 512 544 616 680 224 238 260 267 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x224@60" 6,671322 321 336 392 424 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x224@60" 6,675572 321 336 392 424 224 238 257 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x224@60" 6,797196 321 337 400 432 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "416x224@60" 8,67744 416 448 488 552 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x512@30" 10,71 512 544 616 680 512 516 523 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "704x513@30" 14,742 704 752 840 936 513 517 523 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "256x240@57" 5,411808 256 272 312 344 240 252 270 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "248x240@57" 5,160096 248 264 296 328 240 252 270 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@55" 5,423631 256 272 312 344 256 266 283 288 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@56" 5,423631 256 272 312 344 256 264 276 280 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@57" 5,411808 256 272 312 344 256 262 273 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "248x240@60" 5,15616 248 264 296 328 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x232@58" 5,426944 256 272 312 344 232 246 265 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x240@57" 5,036765 240 256 288 320 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@58" 5,426944 256 272 312 344 224 240 264 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x232@60" 5,40768 256 272 312 344 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@58" 5,426944 256 272 312 344 240 250 267 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@57" 5,411237 256 272 312 344 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x240@58" 6,689024 321 336 392 424 240 250 267 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "319x240@58" 6,689024 319 335 392 424 240 250 267 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "336x256@60" 7,04256 336 352 416 448 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x224@61" 5,042424 240 256 288 320 224 236 254 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "280x224@60" 5,91072 280 296 344 376 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x224@54" 6,433344 304 320 376 408 224 246 281 292 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x256@60" 6,66528 321 336 392 424 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "376x224@60" 7,92288 376 408 440 504 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x256@59" 6,427224 304 320 376 408 256 260 265 267 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x256@60" 5,0304 240 256 288 320 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@60" 5,428031 256 272 312 344 256 258 262 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "248x256@57" 5,160096 248 264 296 328 256 262 273 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60" 5,412429 256 272 312 344 224 236 257 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x236@60" 6,66528 321 336 392 424 236 244 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "336x225@60" 7,060406 336 352 416 448 225 237 257 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "480x464@30" 10,08 480 512 576 640 464 484 515 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "256x224@60" 5,418 256 272 312 344 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "496x232@60" 10,43808 496 528 600 664 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "255x232@60" 5,28192 255 271 304 336 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x240@45" 10,69978 512 544 616 680 240 276 331 349 -hsync -vsync
modeline "160x200@60" 3,40412 160 176 184 216 200 220 253 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x240@60" 6,41376 304 320 376 408 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x256@60" 6,41376 304 320 376 408 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@57" 5,411808 256 272 312 344 224 242 267 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x231@61" 5,416992 256 272 312 344 231 239 254 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x232@60" 5,0304 240 256 288 320 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@61" 5,418 256 272 312 344 224 236 253 259 -hsync -vsync
modeline "319x255@61" 6,676758 319 335 392 424 255 255 258 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x232@61" 5,416992 256 272 312 344 232 240 254 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "296x240@60" 6,16224 296 312 360 392 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "336x240@60" 7,060337 336 352 416 448 240 248 259 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x228@60" 10,72555 512 544 616 680 228 240 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "640x240@60" 13,49029 640 688 760 856 240 248 259 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "672x240@60" 14,12067 672 720 800 896 240 248 259 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "336x240@60" 7,04256 336 352 416 448 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "360x240@60" 7,564647 360 392 416 480 240 248 259 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@61" 5,414702 256 272 312 344 224 236 251 257 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x224@57" 5,03424 240 256 288 320 224 242 267 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x216@61" 5,420606 256 272 312 344 216 230 253 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@61" 5,413872 256 272 312 344 224 236 252 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "272x216@61" 5,672727 272 288 328 360 216 230 253 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x216@61" 5,042424 240 256 288 320 216 230 253 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "288x216@60" 6,03648 288 304 352 384 216 232 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x224@59" 6,675189 321 336 392 424 224 238 259 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x432@30" 10,71 512 544 616 680 432 464 509 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "256x240@57" 5,414522 256 272 312 344 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x224@56" 5,03552 240 256 288 320 224 244 271 281 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@57" 5,414064 256 272 312 344 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60" 5,41603 256 272 312 344 224 238 257 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline "720x241@60" 15,13367 720 768 864 960 241 249 259 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@59" 5,41671 256 272 312 344 256 260 264 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "224x240@50" 4,662 224 240 264 296 240 264 303 315 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x192@60" 10,6896 512 544 616 680 192 216 250 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@56" 5,413184 256 272 312 344 224 244 271 281 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x224@56" 8,056832 384 416 448 512 224 244 271 281 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@56" 5,413184 256 272 312 344 240 254 274 281 -hsync -vsync
modeline "399x253@55" 8,306472 399 431 464 528 253 265 281 287 -hsync -vsync
modeline "400x256@57" 8,443608 400 432 472 536 256 264 274 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline "640x480@28" 13,49099 640 688 760 856 480 504 541 553 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "400x256@60" 8,42592 400 432 472 536 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@50" 5,418 256 272 312 344 256 276 305 315 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x248@57" 5,048213 240 256 288 320 248 258 273 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x240@54" 6,685632 321 336 392 424 240 258 283 292 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x224@61" 6,672912 321 336 392 424 224 236 252 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x256@61" 6,672912 321 336 392 424 256 256 258 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x224@61" 6,666666 321 336 392 424 224 234 251 256 -hsync -vsync
modeline "248x224@60" 5,15616 248 264 296 328 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x216@60" 5,0304 240 256 288 320 216 232 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@54" 5,424192 256 272 312 344 224 246 281 292 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@54" 5,424192 256 272 312 344 240 258 283 292 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@54" 5,42261 256 272 312 344 224 248 281 293 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x216@60" 5,40768 256 272 312 344 216 232 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "342x240@60" 7,16832 342 358 424 456 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "319x223@60" 6,66528 319 335 392 424 223 235 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x224@59" 6,688091 321 336 392 424 224 238 259 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@55" 5,413121 256 272 312 344 224 244 274 284 -hsync -vsync
modeline "376x240@60" 7,92288 376 408 440 504 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "1024x512@30" 21,546 1024 1088 1240 1368 512 516 523 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "368x240@60" 7,67136 368 400 424 488 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x240@59" 6,665534 321 336 392 424 240 248 262 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "480x240@59" 10,06118 480 512 576 640 240 248 262 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x240@59" 8,048947 384 416 448 512 240 248 262 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "576x432@30" 12,096 576 608 704 768 432 464 509 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "272x232@60" 5,6592 272 288 328 360 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "448x224@60" 9,432 448 480 536 600 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x240@57" 8,064757 384 416 448 512 240 252 272 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline "448x240@60" 9,432 448 480 536 600 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x232@60" 6,41376 304 320 376 408 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "336x236@60" 7,04256 336 352 416 448 236 244 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "344x240@60" 7,16832 344 360 424 456 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "351x251@60" 7,29408 351 367 432 464 251 255 260 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x224@56" 6,672064 321 336 392 424 224 244 271 281 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x240@60" 10,70673 512 544 616 680 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x234@60" 5,40768 256 272 312 344 234 244 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "368x224@60" 7,67136 368 400 424 488 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x240@58" 6,436608 304 320 376 408 240 250 267 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x240@61" 6,672912 321 336 392 424 240 246 255 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x224@58" 6,689024 321 336 392 424 224 240 264 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x248@60" 5,40768 256 272 312 344 248 252 260 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "360x224@60" 7,5456 360 392 416 480 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "360x224@58" 7,57248 360 392 416 480 224 240 264 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x224@58" 6,436608 304 320 376 408 224 240 264 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "380x224@60" 7,92288 380 412 440 504 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x240@55" 6,66952 321 336 392 424 240 256 278 286 -hsync -vsync
modeline "508x224@60" 10,6896 508 540 616 680 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "508x240@60" 10,6896 508 540 616 680 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x239@60" 5,40768 256 272 312 344 239 247 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "336x239@60" 7,04256 336 352 416 448 239 247 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x256@57" 10,69776 512 544 616 680 256 262 273 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "496x224@60" 10,43808 496 528 600 664 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x190@60" 6,66528 321 336 392 424 190 214 250 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "264x224@60" 5,53344 264 280 320 352 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "368x448@30" 7,686 368 400 424 488 448 474 512 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "400x248@60" 8,42592 400 432 472 536 248 252 260 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "224x224@60" 4,65312 224 240 264 296 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "464x224@60" 9,68352 464 496 552 616 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "480x224@60" 10,0608 480 512 576 640 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x224@61" 10,70768 512 544 616 680 224 236 253 259 -hsync -vsync
modeline "432x224@59" 9,073728 432 464 512 576 224 238 260 267 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x256@50" 6,667661 321 336 392 424 256 276 306 316 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@54" 5,412326 256 272 312 344 240 256 282 290 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@54" 5,415627 256 272 312 344 240 256 283 291 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x240@56" 6,672321 321 336 392 424 240 254 275 282 -hsync -vsync
modeline "368x240@58" 7,698688 368 400 424 488 240 250 267 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "352x256@60" 7,41984 352 384 408 472 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "352x256@54" 7,442496 352 384 408 472 256 268 286 292 -hsync -vsync
modeline "318x240@60" 6,66528 318 334 392 424 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "336x240@58" 7,067648 336 352 416 448 240 250 267 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x200@50" 6,678 321 336 392 424 200 238 296 315 -hsync -vsync
modeline "366x240@54" 7,694784 366 398 424 488 240 258 283 292 -hsync -vsync
modeline "671x216@60" 14,13817 671 719 800 896 216 232 255 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "671x216@60" 14,13181 671 719 800 896 216 232 255 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "671x272@50" 14,112 671 719 800 896 272 286 308 315 -hsync -vsync
modeline "400x280@50" 8,442 400 432 472 536 280 292 309 315 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x248@56" 6,672064 321 336 392 424 248 260 275 281 -hsync -vsync
modeline "504x296@50" 10,584 504 536 608 672 296 302 312 315 -hsync -vsync
modeline "400x300@49" 8,432614 400 432 472 536 300 308 318 322 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x224@62" 10,71 512 544 616 680 224 234 251 256 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@60" 5,408805 256 272 312 344 240 248 260 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x222@60" 5,40768 256 272 312 344 222 236 255 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@60" 5,422892 256 272 312 344 256 258 262 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "200x240@50" 4,158 200 216 232 264 240 264 303 315 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x200@60" 6,66528 321 336 392 424 200 220 252 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x256@50" 10,71 512 544 616 680 256 276 305 315 -hsync -vsync
modeline "394x240@60" 8,30016 394 426 464 528 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "224x240@60" 4,65312 224 240 264 296 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "296x224@60" 6,16224 296 312 360 392 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "248x216@60" 5,15616 248 264 296 328 216 232 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "322x241@60" 6,792452 322 338 400 432 241 249 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x240@60" 6,666666 321 336 392 424 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "272x256@60" 5,6592 272 288 328 360 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x200@69" 6,6899 321 336 392 424 200 210 223 228 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x236@62" 10,70403 512 544 616 680 236 242 251 254 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x236@61" 10,70098 512 544 616 680 236 244 253 257 -hsync -vsync
modeline "232x256@60" 4,90464 232 248 280 312 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@53" 5,411317 256 272 312 344 224 248 286 298 -hsync -vsync
modeline "416x256@60" 8,67744 416 448 488 552 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x200@60" 5,40768 256 272 312 344 200 220 252 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x240@50" 5,04 240 256 288 320 240 264 303 315 -hsync -vsync
modeline "272x200@60" 5,6592 272 288 328 360 200 220 252 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@61" 5,416992 256 272 312 344 256 256 258 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "280x232@60" 5,91072 280 296 344 376 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x248@60" 10,6896 512 544 616 680 248 252 260 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "208x240@60" 4,4016 208 224 248 280 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x232@60" 8,04864 384 416 448 512 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "392x256@60" 8,1744 392 424 456 520 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "288x240@60" 6,03648 288 304 352 384 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "184x176@60" 3,89856 184 200 216 248 176 204 248 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "368x256@60" 7,67136 368 400 424 488 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "544x200@60" 11,44416 544 576 664 728 200 220 252 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x256@58" 10,72768 512 544 616 680 256 262 269 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x512@30" 5,418 256 272 312 344 512 516 523 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "544x480@30" 11,466 544 576 664 728 480 496 517 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline "294x294@50" 6,165359 294 310 360 392 294 300 311 314 -hsync -vsync
modeline "294x294@51" 6,182352 294 310 360 392 294 300 307 310 -hsync -vsync
modeline "352x224@60" 7,41984 352 384 408 472 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x160@60" 5,045779 240 256 288 320 160 194 247 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline "192x216@60" 4,02432 192 208 224 256 216 232 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "544x242@60" 11,47305 544 576 664 728 242 250 259 263 -hsync -vsync
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 01, 2008, 02:46:20 pm
And this is what MAME spits out on my Radeon 9600 Pro when I try to run Pac-Man :)...
Code: [Select]
Video: Monitor 00010001 = "\\.\DISPLAY1" (primary)
Direct3D: Using Direct3D 9
Direct3D: Configuring adapter #0 = RADEON 9600 SERIES   
Direct3D: Selecting video mode...
   223x 240@ 50Hz -> 86.161882
   224x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   224x 232@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   232x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   240x 192@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   240x 192@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   240x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   240x 240@ 57Hz -> 217.105269
   240x 248@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   240x 252@ 57Hz -> 217.105269
   240x 256@ 57Hz -> 217.105269
   256x 184@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 192@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 208@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 208@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   256x 224@ 57Hz -> 217.105269
   256x 224@ 59Hz -> 383.720934
   256x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   256x 230@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 240@ 59Hz -> 383.720934
   256x 240@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 240@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   256x 256@ 55Hz -> 151.376143
   256x 256@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   260x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   272x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   272x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   272x 236@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   288x 208@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   288x 224@ 60Hz -> 1622.641504
   288x 224@ 61Hz -> 1717.391312
   304x 224@ 60Hz -> 681.465033
   321x 224@ 60Hz -> 652.053269
   321x 240@ 57Hz -> 237.105269
   321x 240@ 60Hz -> 642.641503
   352x 240@ 60Hz -> 634.987183
   376x 248@ 59Hz -> 392.570492
   384x 240@ 60Hz -> 631.491061
   384x 248@ 55Hz -> 159.640606
   384x 256@ 55Hz -> 159.128081
   384x 256@ 60Hz -> 630.393442
   480x  64@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   480x 480@ 60Hz -> 624.868675
   496x 480@ 60Hz -> 624.792041
   512x 224@ 60Hz -> 627.085948
   512x 240@ 60Hz -> 626.790882
   512x 256@ 55Hz -> 155.267194
   512x 448@ 60Hz -> 624.868675
   512x 480@ 60Hz -> 624.720506
   640x 240@ 60Hz -> 625.351531
   640x 480@ 60Hz -> 624.283540
   768x 480@ 60Hz -> 623.998356
  1024x 480@ 60Hz -> 623.648553
Direct3D: Mode selected =  288x 224@ 61Hz
Direct3D: Using dynamic textures
Direct3D: YUV format = UYVY
Direct3D: Device created at 288x224
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 01, 2008, 02:48:32 pm
So long SPAM, short conclusion...
It theoretically works, but practically we should stick to a "reasonable" amount of resolutions.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on March 01, 2008, 03:14:32 pm
So long SPAM, short conclusion...
It theoretically works, but practically we should stick to a "reasonable" amount of resolutions.

Awesome work. Exactly what I was hoping would come out of all of this - nice one!

I'm also pleased the current algorithms in mame can select the right refresh/res as well. (incidentally does mame choose well for games which report incorrect resolutions - e.g. ST-V games? And how does it select resolutions for games that change on the fly?)

And yes, adding all is probably overkill, but I actually think getting an exact refresh rate is as important as getting an exact resolution. I know your windows-only sync hack works well (cabmame) but that still relies on someone keeping the hack alive for all future versions of mame....
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 01, 2008, 03:26:33 pm
As for now, the exact modeline is not needed, just one with the right "active" pixels and the right refresh rate.

MAME has an internal object called "visarea" per Screen.
This includes width, height and refresh rate for the game.
On StartUp MAME chooses the mode that matches the visarea most.

If a game switches resolutions, MAME internally updates the values in the visarea object.
Thats where my "changeres" hack comes to play. Everytime the visarea changes, changeres simply resets the video output and MAME chooses a new (matching) resolution.

As for the "ingame" resolution, I can provide a small hack for 0.123u3 that displays the current visarea values in game information (MAY be included in 0.123u4) instead of the "default" values.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: timofonic on March 02, 2008, 05:12:18 am
Hello.

Are there an equivalent thing for this in Linux? I see modelines, that's commonly used on X Windows.

Regards.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 02, 2008, 05:16:34 am
There should be various solutions for linux that support modelines.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 02, 2008, 04:46:29 pm
(original question) SS, how are you able to use D3D with switchres?  With regular mame, it's all blurry. On cabmame, it just produces a very small picture.

EDIT:

On cabmame .123, D3D behaves just like using DD. I'm curious, how did you get it this way?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 02, 2008, 06:03:32 pm
Per default MAME (in Direct3D) scales the image by a floating point value.

Example:

384 pix width -> 800 pix resolution = factor ~2,084
224 pix height -> 600 pix resolution = factor ~2,678

MAME then chooses the smaller factor (in our example ~2,084) and voila...
384 * ~2,084 = 800
224 * ~2,084 = 467

800x467 pix image in a 800x600 resolution.

--

CabMAME basically does the same, however only uses integer values.

384 -> 800 = ~2
224 -> 600 = ~3

MAME chooses the smaller factor (in this case 2) and voila...
384 * 2 = 768 pixel width
224 * 2 = 448 pixel width

768x448 pixel image in a 800x600 resolution.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: alui on March 03, 2008, 06:48:30 pm
I have the NVidia 6600GT AGP card and can't seem to run some of the 15khz resolutions.  For example, when I tried to run Pac-Man at 352x288 or 384x288, my WG9200 still runs it at 30.1kHZ but at 100Hz refresh rate.  But resolutions such as 448x240 and 640x240 runs fine at 15.7kHz at 59Hz refresh.  Seems like my video card doesn't like any of the resolutions that have 50Hz refresh rates.   Is there any way for me to enable those resolutions so I can run them at 15kHz?  BTW, I tried it using both Forceware 93.71 and 162.18 with the same results.

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 03, 2008, 07:17:04 pm
Per default MAME (in Direct3D) scales the image by a floating point value.

CabMAME basically does the same, however only uses integer values.[/url]

Yeah, that's what I thought. So, essentially you hacked the D3D feature to support integer values?...or?


I have the NVidia 6600GT AGP card and can't seem to run some of the 15khz resolutions.  For example, when I tried to run Pac-Man at 352x288 or 384x288, my WG9200 still runs it at 30.1kHZ but at 100Hz refresh rate.  But resolutions such as 448x240 and 640x240 runs fine at 15.7kHz at 59Hz refresh.  Seems like my video card doesn't like any of the resolutions that have 50Hz refresh rates.   Is there any way for me to enable those resolutions so I can run them at 15kHz?  BTW, I tried it using both Forceware 93.71 and 162.18 with the same results.

Thanks

I think there's something in the drivers in relation to Windows that won't allow it. My 6200 isn't similarly restricted with the AdvanceMAME drivers. Which brings me to ask this question of SS: notice this thread (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=30474.msg257316#msg257316). Is this linux-specific, or could something similar in Windows be done?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 03, 2008, 08:06:11 pm
As far as I know there are really restrictions in the ForceWare, however those only regard interlace features.

An older GeForce2 MX for example...
With driver 12.41 it did actually support interlace (via powerstrip).
With driver 66.92 it did NOT support interlace (neither powerstrip nor soft15khz).

Hm...
There are some flags in the NVidia driver to doublescan low resolution, but that cause it with but 288 line and 240 line resolutions. If it really runs at 31kHz / 100Hz the pixelclock would be exactly the double as it would need...
As long as I can't reproduce here, it's like shooting in the fog.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 03, 2008, 08:47:43 pm
Salior have you finalized a custom15khz.txt file?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 05, 2008, 03:54:40 pm
As far as I know there are really restrictions in the ForceWare, however those only regard interlace features.

An older GeForce2 MX for example...
With driver 12.41 it did actually support interlace (via powerstrip).
With driver 66.92 it did NOT support interlace (neither powerstrip nor soft15khz).

Hm...
There are some flags in the NVidia driver to doublescan low resolution, but that cause it with but 288 line and 240 line resolutions. If it really runs at 31kHz / 100Hz the pixelclock would be exactly the double as it would need...
As long as I can't reproduce here, it's like shooting in the fog.

That's what I meant. The forceware drivers. But with older Nvidia cards, I use driver versions after 66.92, and have no problem with low pclocks. I notice my 6200 will do 640x224 at 15khz, but anything lower it won't with the nvidia drivers. With the advancemame svgalib drivers, it'll do anything I throw at it. I tried to adjust the low-level settings of the bios with Rivatuner, with no success. I tried, or at least thought of adjusting the forceware, but there's no tutorial for Rivatuner, so I didn't really understand what to do. I've never liked powerstrip, but I haven't given it a test, either. Maybe I will.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: alui on March 05, 2008, 11:31:35 pm
I have the NVidia 6600GT AGP card and can't seem to run some of the 15khz resolutions.  For example, when I tried to run Pac-Man at 352x288 or 384x288, my WG9200 still runs it at 30.1kHZ but at 100Hz refresh rate.  But resolutions such as 448x240 and 640x240 runs fine at 15.7kHz at 59Hz refresh.  Seems like my video card doesn't like any of the resolutions that have 50Hz refresh rates.   Is there any way for me to enable those resolutions so I can run them at 15kHz?  BTW, I tried it using both Forceware 93.71 and 162.18 with the same results.

Thanks

As a follow up to my earlier post, I was able to get 352x288 to run @ 15kHz after trying a few modeline.  I think the pixel clock determines whether or not the card would switch to 15kHz or stay at 31kHz w/ 2x refresh, though I'm not sure.

Here's the one that works:

Modeline "352x288@50" 9.55 352 392 520 608 288 289 293 316 +hsync +vsync

I was also able to come up with a 800x600 modeline that doesn't give me any flickers in windows.  I couldn't use the default 800x600 that came with Soft-15kHz because it flickers too much.  Here's the modeline for my no-flicker 800x600:

Modeline "800x600@60" 40 800 840 968 1056 600 601 605 628 +hsync +vsync

I hope this will come in handy to someone with the same monitor/video card combo as I do ...

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: milhouse on March 07, 2008, 10:28:00 am
Has anyone had trouble with NBA Jam using this?  It worked fine with my ArcadeVGA but I am getting an out of range error on my monitor using Soft-15khz and a different video card.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on March 07, 2008, 03:49:46 pm
Has anyone had trouble with NBA Jam using this?  It worked fine with my ArcadeVGA but I am getting an out of range error on my monitor using Soft-15khz and a different video card.

Run 'mame -verbose' from the command line to see what resolution mame is picking when it runs NBAjam. Then you can force the game to use a different resolution or remove the resoluton from soft15Khz as your monitor does not support it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on March 08, 2008, 12:23:22 pm
hey everybody,  I'm having pretty good luck with this so far.  I'm using a Kortek/Betson Kortek KT-2914 trisync, Ati Radeon X1550 on XP using the latest Catalyst drivers.   I do have a few questions though.. How can I be sure if a mode is unsupported by my monitor or whether its my video card?   none of the 15khz modes lower than 448 x 240 will work except 240x240.  Most times I get an out of sync message on my monitor but sometimes the screen is just black.   Also, what program are you guys using to calculate the modeline info?  I'd like to modify some of the existing mode that do work to run at 60hz.   Also, I'd like to add 1024x600 (the 1024x768 without scrolling) but Im confused about how to do that.  Thanks guys! and thanks SailorSat this programs is awesome :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 08, 2008, 06:35:19 pm
Attached below are the SVGA and XGA real 60hz modelines. As for you not getting the bulk of 15khz resolutions, I don't know. I think the monitor is quite capable of the modes. I just got an X1600 XT and it works with the stock 15khz modes just fine. (Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be compatible with Advancemame....)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 08, 2008, 11:28:52 pm
S.S. - I just tried to install the three 352x288 user modes you posted above but I'm not seeing them in the drop-down list in Mame32/cabMame. I have the txt file name customusermodes. Before that, I tried customeuser and usermodes. None have worked as far as I can tell.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 09, 2008, 12:28:41 am
Hm...
It's usermodes.txt
Should work though.
Too bad drivers don't spit out error logs if the don't like something :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on March 09, 2008, 10:19:21 pm
Yeah they are 31KHz, but to be honest, neither my Hantarex nor any of the TVs I had hooked up (those SCART RGB stuff rocks!) did blow up or take any damage.
They simply cannot sync to it.
You could either use a J-PAC to filter out the BIOS screens, or you could enjoy a doubled bios output (like that "feature" on the J-PAC).

I dont use a J-pac

how do I go about enjoying a doubled bios output like the feature of the J-pac as stated above?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 09, 2008, 10:33:23 pm
Hm...
It's usermodes.txt
Should work though.
Too bad drivers don't spit out error logs if the don't like something :)

I dunno. However, I then added a custom15khz file to the directory with only the first (18.7khz) of those three you provided, and soft15 seems to have substituted it for the stock mode. The mode looks really good. Almost perfect display. (Incidentally, this is the same as or very similar to a mode generated on my display in Advancemame. I kinda wonder why you never decided to tackle further development of this build...)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on March 11, 2008, 03:12:54 am
Attached below are the SVGA and XGA real 60hz modelines. As for you not getting the bulk of 15khz resolutions, I don't know. I think the monitor is quite capable of the modes. I just got an X1600 XT and it works with the stock 15khz modes just fine. (Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be compatible with Advancemame....)

Thanks!  I'll give them a try and report back.. I wish I could tell if its the monitor or the video card.  The OSD just blinks as though its out of range but it could be the video card glitching out..  If I had an oscilliscope handy I could maybe verify the signal coming out of the video card..  Its odd that 240x240 works and most of the other 15khz modes don't..
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Xb0x3r on March 11, 2008, 09:54:03 am
Hey, I've got a nVidia GeForce 5950. For some reason my WG 25k7913 doesn't display anything when I'm using my hacked VGA cable. I've tried setting my resolution at 640x480 @ 60Hz.

Nothing seems to be working.

Thanks,
Xb0x3r
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 12, 2008, 12:29:33 pm
Hey, I've got a nVidia GeForce 5950. For some reason my WG 25k7913 doesn't display anything when I'm using my hacked VGA cable. I've tried setting my resolution at 640x480 @ 60Hz.

Nothing seems to be working.

Thanks,
Xb0x3r

Sounds like you need to post this as its own thread. Doesn't seem related to this one.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Xb0x3r on March 12, 2008, 01:36:04 pm
Is the nVidia GeForce 5950 supported in soft15khz?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 12, 2008, 02:25:03 pm
It should.

Have you tried it with a normal VGA Monitor? These should shut off as soon as windows boots (or display garbage ^^)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on March 12, 2008, 03:12:15 pm
Yeah they are 31KHz, but to be honest, neither my Hantarex nor any of the TVs I had hooked up (those SCART RGB stuff rocks!) did blow up or take any damage.
They simply cannot sync to it.
You could either use a J-PAC to filter out the BIOS screens, or you could enjoy a doubled bios output (like that "feature" on the J-PAC).

I dont use a J-pac

how do I go about enjoying a doubled bios output like the feature of the J-pac as stated above?



I still dont understand how you use a second card or this j-pac feature thing in order to get past the non 15k screens safely and I am to learry to try soft 15k until I know what to do safely.

could you please explain a little better on what needs to be done and can be done becuase the description of how it is done is a little bland.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 12, 2008, 03:25:12 pm
My Polo displays the 31kHz BIOS screens exactly as the jpac does with the jumper on.

As for the dual card workaround...
You add a seconds card (most likely PCI), enter your BIOS and change your primary VGA device to PCI (PCI/AGP on older boards).

In windows you simple go to the device manager and deactivate the PCI card.

Then the bios boots up on PCI (with no monitor attached) and once windows starts, the pci shuts off and the AGP/PCIE card will display (on your arcade screen).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on March 12, 2008, 07:00:18 pm
My Polo displays the 31kHz BIOS screens exactly as the jpac does with the jumper on.


You could either use a J-PAC to filter out the BIOS screens, or you could enjoy a doubled bios output (like that "feature" on the J-PAC).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont use a j-pac or polo so how do you use or make the j-pac like feature as stated above?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the dual card workaround...
You add a seconds card (most likely PCI), enter your BIOS and change your primary VGA device to PCI (PCI/AGP on older boards).

In windows you simple go to the device manager and deactivate the PCI card.

Then the bios boots up on PCI (with no monitor attached) and once windows starts, the pci shuts off and the AGP/PCIE card will display (on your arcade screen).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
what or how would the second card matter or do any justice if there meant to display 31K only how would that not give you a 31k on startup still?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 12, 2008, 07:06:33 pm
And this is what MAME spits out on my Radeon 9600 Pro when I try to run Pac-Man :)...
Code: [Select]
Video: Monitor 00010001 = "\\.\DISPLAY1" (primary)
Direct3D: Using Direct3D 9
Direct3D: Configuring adapter #0 = RADEON 9600 SERIES   
Direct3D: Selecting video mode...
   223x 240@ 50Hz -> 86.161882
   224x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   224x 232@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   232x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   240x 192@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   240x 192@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   240x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   240x 240@ 57Hz -> 217.105269
   240x 248@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   240x 252@ 57Hz -> 217.105269
   240x 256@ 57Hz -> 217.105269
   256x 184@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 192@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 208@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 208@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   256x 224@ 57Hz -> 217.105269
   256x 224@ 59Hz -> 383.720934
   256x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   256x 230@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 240@ 59Hz -> 383.720934
   256x 240@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 240@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   256x 256@ 55Hz -> 151.376143
   256x 256@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   260x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   272x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   272x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   272x 236@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   288x 208@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   288x 224@ 60Hz -> 1622.641504
   288x 224@ 61Hz -> 1717.391312
   304x 224@ 60Hz -> 681.465033
   321x 224@ 60Hz -> 652.053269
   321x 240@ 57Hz -> 237.105269
   321x 240@ 60Hz -> 642.641503
   352x 240@ 60Hz -> 634.987183
   376x 248@ 59Hz -> 392.570492
   384x 240@ 60Hz -> 631.491061
   384x 248@ 55Hz -> 159.640606
   384x 256@ 55Hz -> 159.128081
   384x 256@ 60Hz -> 630.393442
   480x  64@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   480x 480@ 60Hz -> 624.868675
   496x 480@ 60Hz -> 624.792041
   512x 224@ 60Hz -> 627.085948
   512x 240@ 60Hz -> 626.790882
   512x 256@ 55Hz -> 155.267194
   512x 448@ 60Hz -> 624.868675
   512x 480@ 60Hz -> 624.720506
   640x 240@ 60Hz -> 625.351531
   640x 480@ 60Hz -> 624.283540
   768x 480@ 60Hz -> 623.998356
  1024x 480@ 60Hz -> 623.648553
Direct3D: Mode selected =  288x 224@ 61Hz
Direct3D: Using dynamic textures
Direct3D: YUV format = UYVY
Direct3D: Device created at 288x224

Sailor I am getting an ATI x1950xt which will allow me to add unlimted amount of resolutions to usermodes.txt

My question is this. I saw that you are using d3d with cabmame and it picks up correct rez and refresh.

Will this work with  regular mame and direct draw, switch rez, no hwstrech or do you have to run cabmame and d3d for mame to select the right rez and refresh from usermodes.txt. I am axious to get ATI card and add all those resolutions to it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 12, 2008, 07:22:47 pm
Should work with baseline MAME too.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 12, 2008, 07:28:57 pm
So with regular mame I use direct draw. that wont be an issue? Have you tested with direct draw?

Also I want to clarify something. If you add modelines to the usermodes.txt do you have to uninstall soft 15khz and then reinstall and reboot?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on March 12, 2008, 09:17:22 pm
My Polo displays the 31kHz BIOS screens exactly as the jpac does with the jumper on.


You could either use a J-PAC to filter out the BIOS screens, or you could enjoy a doubled bios output (like that "feature" on the J-PAC).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont use a j-pac or polo so how do you use or make the j-pac like feature as stated above?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the dual card workaround...
You add a seconds card (most likely PCI), enter your BIOS and change your primary VGA device to PCI (PCI/AGP on older boards).

In windows you simple go to the device manager and deactivate the PCI card.

Then the bios boots up on PCI (with no monitor attached) and once windows starts, the pci shuts off and the AGP/PCIE card will display (on your arcade screen).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
what or how would the second card matter or do any justice if there meant to display 31K only how would that not give you a 31k on startup still?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on March 12, 2008, 10:38:44 pm
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont use a j-pac or polo so how do you use or make the j-pac like feature as stated above?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can not. The original statement was "You could either use a J-PAC to filter out the BIOS screens, or you could enjoy a doubled bios output (like that "feature" on the J-PAC)." Which means that IF you have a JPAC you can either 1) Filter out the Bios Screens or 2) get a doubled image instead.
He then commented that his Hantarex Polo monitor actually dealt with Bios screens the same way without a jpac - showing them doubled. Not all monitors will do this, no idea which others will.

Quote
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
what or how would the second card matter or do any justice if there meant to display 31K only how would that not give you a 31k on startup still?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can not turn off the bios screens, and - without a Jpac - they will be at 31Khz. Therefore, if you install 2nd gfx card (e.g. PCI), tell the bios to use the PCI card first, and then tell windows to only use your AGP/PCIe card and ignore the PCI one, and then do not connect any monitor to the PCI card - you will be not see any bios screens at all. The "main" AGP/PCIe card will not be activated at all until windows boots - and start at 15Khz.

So basically the bios is still going ahead at 31Khz, but on a card you are not using. A bit long-winded, but you can use a $10 PCI card etc...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on March 13, 2008, 12:39:35 am
gotcha now.

I thought she was saying there was some type of app or software that would mimmic the j-pac like feature and I was wondering where or how to get it lol.

as for the double video card set-up I completely understand that now also and am geeked becuase I have 6 older pci video card's that are all good canidates.

my next question is what are the steps to get it working right.

do I disconnect the arcade monitor and hook up a regular vga card and vga pc monitor run the soft15k software shut the pc down after that and then hook the arcade monitor back up turn the pc on and it should be running in 15k correct?

the reason for all my questions is I dont want to harm my arcade monitor so I wanted to be sure and understood it all first.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 13, 2008, 01:40:12 am
So with regular mame I use direct draw. that wont be an issue? Have you tested with direct draw?

Also I want to clarify something. If you add modelines to the usermodes.txt do you have to uninstall soft 15khz and then reinstall and reboot?
Sure it works with direct draw, how you think the ArcadeVGA works? :)

You have to uninstall and reinstall soft-15khz anytime you change your customXXkhz.txt or usermodes.txt file.

---

do I disconnect the arcade monitor and hook up a regular vga card and vga pc monitor run the soft15k software shut the pc down after that and then hook the arcade monitor back up turn the pc on and it should be running in 15k correct?

right, you can double check if 15khz is working by keeping the VGA monitor connected after soft-15khz installation, it should go "out of sync" (or display garbage) as soon as windows starts. then simply switch the cables.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 13, 2008, 08:19:24 am
Salior to test with that big list of usermodes.txt I need to upgrade to Build 39. Any bugs with it or is it stable?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: damdai on March 13, 2008, 08:56:01 am
I have an nvidia geforce 7800 gtx and a WG D9400 monitor. After installing soft 15k, I am unable to see any of the new resolutions using quickres, and when mame tries to play a game using any res below 640x480, it throws an error stating that it's an unsupported resolution. I'm not sure if this has already been answered in this thread, but any help would be greatly appreciated. Must play games in native res!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 13, 2008, 11:39:32 am
Salior to test with that big list of usermodes.txt I need to upgrade to Build 39. Any bugs with it or is it stable?

I've just added a higher resolution limit (before it was 256, now 32768) and some minor warning messages.
Should be stable :)


I have an nvidia geforce 7800 gtx and a WG D9400 monitor. After installing soft 15k, I am unable to see any of the new resolutions using quickres, and when mame tries to play a game using any res below 640x480, it throws an error stating that it's an unsupported resolution. I'm not sure if this has already been answered in this thread, but any help would be greatly appreciated. Must play games in native res!
Hm... What ForceWare are you using?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: damdai on March 13, 2008, 12:14:13 pm
Hm... What ForceWare are you using?

I think 97.61 or something like that. I'm at work now so I will confirm when I get home. I have been reading through this thread while at work today and came across some potential solutions. One nvidia user posted a similar problem, but after he reinstalled soft 15k, it went away. I also see that I'm using a pretty old forceware, so I'll update that as well. I'll post my results after I do these things.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: damdai on March 13, 2008, 09:28:18 pm
Hm... What ForceWare are you using?

I think 97.61 or something like that. I'm at work now so I will confirm when I get home. I have been reading through this thread while at work today and came across some potential solutions. One nvidia user posted a similar problem, but after he reinstalled soft 15k, it went away. I also see that I'm using a pretty old forceware, so I'll update that as well. I'll post my results after I do these things.

Updated to the latest forceware, reinstalled soft 15k, rebooted. using quickres, most of the resolutions were now gone, except for 3: 640x480, 800x600, and 1024x768. Any ideas?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 13, 2008, 10:41:04 pm
Hm... Are you using Clone mode or something like that?
As for 640x480, did it output 15kHz?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on March 13, 2008, 10:43:27 pm
So with regular mame I use direct draw. that wont be an issue? Have you tested with direct draw?

Also I want to clarify something. If you add modelines to the usermodes.txt do you have to uninstall soft 15khz and then reinstall and reboot?
Sure it works with direct draw, how you think the ArcadeVGA works? :)

You have to uninstall and reinstall soft-15khz anytime you change your customXXkhz.txt or usermodes.txt file.

---

do I disconnect the arcade monitor and hook up a regular vga card and vga pc monitor run the soft15k software shut the pc down after that and then hook the arcade monitor back up turn the pc on and it should be running in 15k correct?

right, you can double check if 15khz is working by keeping the VGA monitor connected after soft-15khz installation, it should go "out of sync" (or display garbage) as soon as windows starts. then simply switch the cables.

awsome thanks for the help I will let you know how a ATI 512mg AGP card turns out  :cheers:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: damdai on March 13, 2008, 10:49:41 pm
Hm... Are you using Clone mode or something like that?
As for 640x480, did it output 15kHz?

Nope, only single display. The only khz options i have in quickres are 60. im not sure what numbers my monitor is shoing in the OSD, but its something like 30 over 50. i can get the exact numbers later if u want them, but they were around there.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 13, 2008, 11:01:56 pm
Nope, only single display. The only khz options i have in quickres are 60. im not sure what numbers my monitor is shoing in the OSD, but its something like 30 over 50. i can get the exact numbers later if u want them, but they were around there.
Yeah they all should show up with 60Hz (which is vertical refresh btw.), but you shouldn't be able to actually SEE anything on your VGA Monitor now.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: damdai on March 13, 2008, 11:46:34 pm
Nope, only single display. The only khz options i have in quickres are 60. im not sure what numbers my monitor is shoing in the OSD, but its something like 30 over 50. i can get the exact numbers later if u want them, but they were around there.
Yeah they all should show up with 60Hz (which is vertical refresh btw.), but you shouldn't be able to actually SEE anything on your VGA Monitor now.

Why not? My monitor is capable of displaying up to 800x600.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 13, 2008, 11:50:34 pm
Hm... Actually the D9400 should sync to it, my fault.
What does the OSD tell you?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on March 14, 2008, 01:26:08 am
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick  ;)

 :notworthy:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 14, 2008, 08:48:24 am
One last question sailor since I dont have my new ati card to test. When you used that big usermodes.txt list. Did you have any specific resolution specified in the pacman.ini file or mame auto selected that right resolutions and refresh or does it use a default resolution in the pacman.ini file as a reference?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: damdai on March 14, 2008, 09:41:57 am
Hm... Actually the D9400 should sync to it, my fault.
What does the OSD tell you?

I'll check when I get home from work tonight. I also have an ATI Radeon X850 to try as well.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 14, 2008, 10:01:50 am
One last question sailor since I dont have my new ati card to test. When you used that big usermodes.txt list. Did you have any specific resolution specified in the pacman.ini file or mame auto selected that right resolutions and refresh or does it use a default resolution in the pacman.ini file as a reference?

I don't use any INIs at all. MAME selects resolutions itself.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on March 14, 2008, 04:54:03 pm
I have a radeon X1650 pro 512mb on the way and will post the results.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: damdai on March 14, 2008, 07:09:14 pm
Hm... Actually the D9400 should sync to it, my fault.
What does the OSD tell you?

I'll check when I get home from work tonight. I also have an ATI Radeon X850 to try as well.

After installing soft 15k and rebooting, the screen is skewed with noticeable flicker, and the OSD says:
    FH 15.8 KHZ
    FV 50.2 HZ
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 14, 2008, 07:30:36 pm
Sure, 800x600 :)

With your D9400 you should be able to install 15 + 25 + 31kHz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: damdai on March 14, 2008, 07:46:05 pm
Sure, 800x600 :)

With your D9400 you should be able to install 15 + 25 + 31kHz.

I know. It doesn't seem to be working with my graphics card though. None of the resolutions are listed in quickres, and mame will choose to run games at 800x600. I'm trying an ATI card now.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 14, 2008, 10:33:26 pm
Salior

I just got my x1950xt works great  right out of the box( I will need to add that to your compatablity thread)

I setup the usermodes.txt and pasted in the large list your put in the thread and ran mame -verbose.

I had gotten the same result as you however nearly all thoser usermode resoultions didnt not work with my monitor.

Screen when a little crazy and also made a high pitch noise. Strange because my bill labs quad sync monitor is capable of running many modes.

Also something else I ve played around with is adding those modelines you gave me for pacman two pages ago in this thread and I specified in the pacman.ini file 352x288@55 and it still selected the default one @51. Seems like if you have same resolution with different refresh rates mame will always pick the default ones in embedded in soft 15khz. What is that?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: damdai on March 15, 2008, 11:28:28 am
I'm able to add new resolutions with powerstrip, but not with soft15k.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 15, 2008, 12:03:13 pm
Screen when a little crazy and also made a high pitch noise. Strange because my bill labs quad sync monitor is capable of running many modes.
Most likely the horizontal flyback on those modes it too high, as they are calculated for standard 15kHz (which is something like 20% of active pixel = sync) and with your Monitor simply has a faster flyback (like 10% of pixel = sync)
I'll attach the same list again with smaller sync width.

Also something else I ve played around with is adding those modelines you gave me for pacman two pages ago in this thread and I specified in the pacman.ini file 352x288@55 and it still selected the default one @51. Seems like if you have same resolution with different refresh rates mame will always pick the default ones in embedded in soft 15khz. What is that?
Try only to add the usermodes, NOT the base 15kHz ones (as they ALL will be added with 60Hz to the registry).
As for MAME, in your INI try setting "resolution0" not "resolution", MAME seems to have some... pretty nasty behaviour...



I'm able to add new resolutions with powerstrip, but not with soft15k.
Now that IS strange as both should be doing quite the same thing. With both NVidia AND ATI?
Can't help you at all right now, as I'm not sitting in front of it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 15, 2008, 12:39:11 pm
I tried pasting that updated text file, but when I ran soft 15 and intall usermodes it gives me a runtime error 13. It is like the problem I had with the decimal points that u fixed in build38
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 15, 2008, 12:51:06 pm
Seems I can add first 3 lines without runtime error after that i get error if I add more.

Also i tried pacman with the first 3 modelines added I it doesnt play nice with my monitor


And as far as mame .ini. It was using resolution0 and it still didnt grab the modeline in usermodes.txt

Infact here is verbose listing
DirectDraw: Using DirectDraw 7
DirectDraw: Configuring device Radeon X1950 Se
DirectDraw: Selecting video mode...
   240x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.279536
   256x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.276498
   256x 256@ 60Hz -> 62.279536
   256x 264@ 60Hz -> 62.281696
   288x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.273001
   296x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.272416
   304x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.271904
   321x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.271001
   321x 256@ 60Hz -> 62.271844
   336x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.270363
   352x 256@ 60Hz -> 62.270363
   352x 264@ 60Hz -> 62.270688
   352x 288@ 60Hz -> 2062.264152
   368x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.269333
   384x 288@ 60Hz -> 68.475332
   392x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.268760
   401x 256@ 60Hz -> 62.268914
   448x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.267815
   448x 384@ 60Hz -> 65.379417
   512x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.267119
   512x 288@ 60Hz -> 65.724360
   512x 384@ 60Hz -> 64.861554
   512x 448@ 60Hz -> 64.491323
   512x 512@ 60Hz -> 64.213470
   632x 264@ 60Hz -> 62.266461
   640x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.266302
   640x 288@ 60Hz -> 64.662233
   640x 480@ 60Hz -> 63.906188
   720x 480@ 60Hz -> 63.715531
   800x 600@ 60Hz -> 63.389011
  1024x 768@ 60Hz -> 63.044792
  1280x 720@ 60Hz -> 62.935744
DirectDraw: Mode selected =  352x 288@ 60Hz
DirectDraw: primary surface created: 352x288x32

here is my usermodes.txt

modeline '352x288 17,1kHz 55Hz' 7,96 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync

noticed it didnt even see the 352x288@55 in the verbose listing.




Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 15, 2008, 01:14:51 pm
You DID install 15kHz AND Usermodes did you?
And what error do you get?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 15, 2008, 04:14:58 pm
Yes I Did

I got a run time error 13
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 15, 2008, 05:06:47 pm
Oo...
Do you really use build 29? If so please attach the mode that generates the error.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 15, 2008, 05:32:07 pm
modeline "272x236@60p;15.72kHz" 5.0304 272 288 288 320 236 244 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "224x224@61p;15.75758kHz" 4.16 224 240 232 264 224 236 254 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60p;15.72kHz" 4.77888 256 272 272 304 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x224@60p;15.72kHz" 4.4016 240 256 248 280 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "288x224@60p;15.72kHz" 5.28192 288 304 304 336 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x240@57p;15.732kHz" 5.915232 320 336 344 376 240 252 270 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x224@60p;15.72kHz" 9.432 512 528 568 600 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "480x64@60p;15.72kHz" 8.92896 480 496 536 568 64 130 229 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x240@60p;15.72kHz" 9.432 512 528 568 600 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "640x240@60p;15.72kHz" 11.82144 640 656 720 752 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x208@60p;15.72kHz" 4.77888 256 272 272 304 208 226 253 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x208@61p;15.74707kHz" 4.787109 256 272 272 304 208 224 250 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "272x224@60p;15.72kHz" 5.0304 272 288 288 320 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "272x224@61p;15.75758kHz" 5.042424 272 288 288 320 224 236 254 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x224@60p;15.72kHz" 5.6592 304 320 328 360 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "288x224@60p;15.7608kHz" 5.295629 288 304 304 336 224 238 257 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline "496x480@60p;31.5kHz" 18.396 496 512 552 584 480 496 517 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "640x480@60p;31.5kHz" 23.688 640 656 720 752 480 496 517 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "1024x480@60p;31.5kHz" 38.052 1024 1056 1144 1208 480 496 517 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "768x480@60p;31.5kHz" 28.476 768 800 840 904 480 496 517 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x192@60p;15.72kHz" 4.77888 256 272 272 304 192 216 250 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x192@60p;15.72kHz" 4.4016 240 256 248 280 192 216 250 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x192@61p;15.71981kHz" 4.401546 240 256 248 280 192 214 246 257 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@60p;15.72kHz" 4.77888 256 272 272 304 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@59p;15.74337kHz" 4.785985 256 272 272 304 224 238 259 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x448@60p;31.5kHz" 18.9 512 528 568 600 448 474 512 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@60p;15.72kHz" 4.77888 256 272 272 304 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60p;15.7458kHz" 4.786724 256 272 272 304 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "260x224@60p;15.77863kHz" 4.796702 260 276 272 304 224 238 258 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline "376x248@59p;15.73835kHz" 6.924874 376 392 408 440 248 254 262 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x230@60p;15.72kHz" 4.77888 256 272 272 304 230 240 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x184@60p;15.72kHz" 4.77888 256 272 272 304 184 210 249 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x248@60p;15.72kHz" 4.4016 240 256 248 280 248 252 260 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "223x240@50p;15.75kHz" 4.158 223 239 232 264 240 264 303 315 -hsync -vsync
modeline "352x240@60p;15.73426kHz" 6.545454 352 368 384 416 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x480@60p;31.5kHz" 18.9 512 528 568 600 480 496 517 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "480x480@60p;31.5kHz" 17.892 480 496 536 568 480 496 517 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@59p;15.74337kHz" 4.785985 256 272 272 304 240 248 262 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x224@60p;15.72327kHz" 4.402516 240 256 248 280 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60p;15.76613kHz" 4.792903 256 272 272 304 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x252@57p;15.77305kHz" 4.416454 240 256 248 280 252 260 274 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x240@57p;15.732kHz" 4.40496 240 256 248 280 240 252 270 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@57p;15.77305kHz" 4.795007 256 272 272 304 224 242 269 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x256@57p;15.7765kHz" 4.41742 240 256 248 280 256 264 274 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@55p;15.73kHz" 4.78192 256 272 272 304 256 266 281 286 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x256@55p;15.73kHz" 7.04704 384 400 416 448 256 266 281 286 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x248@55p;15.73kHz" 7.04704 384 400 416 448 248 260 280 286 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x256@55p;15.73503kHz" 7.049296 384 400 416 448 256 266 281 286 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x256@55p;15.73kHz" 9.438 512 528 568 600 256 266 281 286 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x240@60p;15.72kHz" 7.04256 384 400 416 448 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x240@60p;15.72kHz" 5.91072 320 336 344 376 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x256@60p;15.72kHz" 7.04256 384 400 416 448 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@61p;15.738kHz" 4.784352 256 272 272 304 240 246 255 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@76p;25.02441kHz" 7.607422 256 272 272 304 256 280 316 328 -hsync -vsync
modeline "232x224@60p;15.72kHz" 4.27584 232 248 240 272 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "224x232@60p;15.72kHz" 4.15008 224 240 232 264 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@59p;15.753kHz" 4.788912 256 272 272 304 224 238 260 267 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x224@60p;15.72kHz" 5.91072 320 336 344 376 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "288x208@60p;15.72kHz" 5.28192 288 304 304 336 208 226 253 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x232@60p;15.72kHz" 5.91072 320 336 344 376 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x240@57p;15.73582kHz" 7.049647 384 400 416 448 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x224@60p;15.72kHz" 7.04256 384 400 416 448 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x240@58p;15.755kHz" 7.05824 384 400 416 448 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x400@60p;25.02kHz" 15.012 512 528 568 600 400 406 414 417 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x224@59p;15.74499kHz" 5.920116 320 336 344 376 224 238 260 267 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x232@59p;15.74499kHz" 5.920116 320 336 344 376 232 244 261 267 -hsync -vsync
modeline "640x200@60p;15.72kHz" 11.82144 640 656 720 752 200 220 252 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "264x240@60p;15.72kHz" 4.90464 264 280 280 312 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "280x240@60p;15.72kHz" 5.15616 280 296 296 328 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "260x240@60p;15.72kHz" 4.77888 260 276 272 304 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x240@55p;15.74995kHz" 5.921979 320 336 344 376 240 256 279 287 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x240@56p;15.736kHz" 5.916736 320 336 344 376 240 254 274 281 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@58p;15.755kHz" 4.78952 256 272 272 304 224 240 266 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x240@59p;15.753kHz" 5.923128 320 336 344 376 240 248 263 267 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x240@61p;15.738kHz" 5.917488 320 336 344 376 240 246 255 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x240@59p;15.74382kHz" 5.919677 320 336 344 376 240 248 261 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x240@58p;15.76888kHz" 5.929098 320 336 344 376 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x240@58p;15.76888kHz" 7.064457 384 400 416 448 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x224@58p;15.76888kHz" 5.929098 320 336 344 376 224 240 266 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "318x239@58p;15.76888kHz" 5.929098 318 334 344 376 239 251 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "294x238@60p;15.74519kHz" 5.416346 294 310 312 344 238 246 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "316x239@60p;15.74519kHz" 5.794231 316 332 336 368 239 247 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "292x240@60p;15.74519kHz" 5.416346 292 308 312 344 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "292x231@60p;15.74519kHz" 5.416346 292 308 312 344 231 241 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "276x240@60p;15.74519kHz" 5.164423 276 292 296 328 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x240@60p;15.72kHz" 4.4016 240 256 248 280 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "352x240@60p;15.72kHz" 6.53952 352 368 384 416 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x224@60p;15.7432kHz" 7.052954 384 400 416 448 224 238 257 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline "360x245@57p;15.732kHz" 6.670368 360 376 392 424 245 255 271 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "360x240@57p;15.732kHz" 6.670368 360 376 392 424 240 252 270 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "400x240@60p;15.72kHz" 7.41984 400 416 440 472 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "360x240@60p;15.72kHz" 6.66528 360 376 392 424 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x256@60p;15.74803kHz" 7.055118 384 400 416 448 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60p;15.77951kHz" 4.796971 256 272 272 304 224 236 257 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60p;15.77984kHz" 4.797073 256 272 272 304 224 236 257 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x256@60p;15.72kHz" 9.432 512 528 568 600 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "280x210@60p;15.72kHz" 5.15616 280 296 296 328 210 228 253 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x208@60p;15.72kHz" 4.4016 240 256 248 280 208 226 253 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x224@59p;15.77727kHz" 9.466364 512 528 568 600 224 238 260 267 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x224@60p;15.73425kHz" 5.916078 320 336 344 376 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x224@60p;15.74428kHz" 5.919847 320 336 344 376 224 238 257 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline "321x224@60p;15.73425kHz" 5.916078 321 337 344 376 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "496x384@58p;24.998kHz" 14.59883 496 512 552 584 384 400 423 431 -hsync -vsync
modeline "416x224@60p;15.72kHz" 7.67136 416 432 456 488 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "496x384@60p;25.02kHz" 14.61168 496 512 552 584 384 396 411 417 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x512@60p;31.5kHz" 18.9 512 528 568 600 512 516 523 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "704x513@60p;31.5kHz" 26.208 704 736 768 832 513 517 523 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@57p;15.732kHz" 4.782528 256 272 272 304 240 252 270 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "248x240@57p;15.732kHz" 4.530816 248 264 256 288 240 252 270 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@55p;15.76637kHz" 4.792976 256 272 272 304 256 266 283 288 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@56p;15.76637kHz" 4.792976 256 272 272 304 256 264 276 280 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@57p;15.732kHz" 4.782528 256 272 272 304 256 262 273 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "248x240@60p;15.72kHz" 4.52736 248 264 256 288 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x232@58p;15.776kHz" 4.795904 256 272 272 304 232 246 265 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x240@57p;15.73989kHz" 4.407169 240 256 248 280 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@58p;15.776kHz" 4.795904 256 272 272 304 224 240 264 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x232@60p;15.72kHz" 4.77888 256 272 272 304 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@58p;15.776kHz" 4.795904 256 272 272 304 240 250 267 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@57p;15.73034kHz" 4.782023 256 272 272 304 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x240@58p;15.776kHz" 5.931776 320 336 344 376 240 250 267 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "319x240@58p;15.776kHz" 5.931776 319 335 344 376 240 250 267 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "336x256@60p;15.72kHz" 6.16224 336 352 360 392 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x224@61p;15.75758kHz" 4.412121 240 256 248 280 224 236 254 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "280x224@60p;15.72kHz" 5.15616 280 296 296 328 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x224@54p;15.768kHz" 5.67648 304 320 328 360 224 246 281 292 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x256@60p;15.72kHz" 5.91072 320 336 344 376 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "376x224@60p;15.72kHz" 6.9168 376 392 408 440 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x256@59p;15.753kHz" 5.67108 304 320 328 360 256 260 265 267 -hsync -vsync
modeline "488x384@58p;24.998kHz" 14.39885 488 504 544 576 384 400 423 431 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x384@60p;25.02kHz" 15.012 512 528 568 600 384 396 411 417 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x256@60p;15.72kHz" 4.4016 240 256 248 280 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@60p;15.77916kHz" 4.796865 256 272 272 304 256 258 262 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "248x256@57p;15.732kHz" 4.530816 248 264 256 288 256 262 273 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60p;15.73381kHz" 4.783077 256 272 272 304 224 236 257 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x236@60p;15.72kHz" 5.91072 320 336 344 376 236 244 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "336x225@60p;15.75984kHz" 6.177855 336 352 360 392 225 237 257 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "480x464@60p;31.5kHz" 17.892 480 496 536 568 464 484 515 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60p;15.75kHz" 4.788 256 272 272 304 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "496x232@60p;15.72kHz" 9.18048 496 512 552 584 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "255x232@60p;15.72kHz" 4.77888 255 271 272 304 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x240@45p;15.73497kHz" 9.440983 512 528 568 600 240 276 331 349 -hsync -vsync
modeline "160x200@60p;15.75981kHz" 3.025884 160 176 160 192 200 220 253 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x240@60p;15.72kHz" 5.6592 304 320 328 360 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x256@60p;15.72kHz" 5.6592 304 320 328 360 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@57p;15.732kHz" 4.782528 256 272 272 304 224 242 267 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x231@61p;15.74707kHz" 4.787109 256 272 272 304 231 239 254 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x232@60p;15.72kHz" 4.4016 240 256 248 280 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@61p;15.75kHz" 4.788 256 272 272 304 224 236 253 259 -hsync -vsync
modeline "319x255@61p;15.74707kHz" 5.920898 319 335 344 376 255 255 258 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x232@61p;15.74707kHz" 4.787109 256 272 272 304 232 240 254 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "296x240@60p;15.72kHz" 5.53344 296 312 320 352 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "336x240@60p;15.75968kHz" 6.177795 336 352 360 392 240 248 259 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x384@60p;25kHz" 15 512 528 568 600 384 394 411 416 -hsync -vsync
modeline "508x384@60p;25kHz" 15 508 524 568 600 384 396 411 417 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x288@60p;25.02915kHz" 15.01749 512 528 568 600 288 330 394 415 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x228@60p;15.77287kHz" 9.463722 512 528 568 600 228 240 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "640x240@60p;15.75968kHz" 11.85128 640 656 720 752 240 248 259 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "672x240@60p;15.75968kHz" 12.48167 672 704 728 792 240 248 259 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "336x240@60p;15.72kHz" 6.16224 336 352 360 392 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "360x240@60p;15.75968kHz" 6.682105 360 376 392 424 240 248 259 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@61p;15.74041kHz" 4.785086 256 272 272 304 224 236 251 257 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x224@57p;15.732kHz" 4.40496 240 256 248 280 224 242 267 276 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x216@61p;15.75758kHz" 4.790303 256 272 272 304 216 230 253 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@61p;15.738kHz" 4.784352 256 272 272 304 224 236 252 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "272x216@61p;15.75758kHz" 5.042424 272 288 288 320 216 230 253 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x216@61p;15.75758kHz" 4.412121 240 256 248 280 216 230 253 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "288x216@60p;15.72kHz" 5.28192 288 304 304 336 216 232 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x224@59p;15.74337kHz" 5.919508 320 336 344 376 224 238 259 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x432@60p;31.5kHz" 18.9 512 528 568 600 432 464 509 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@57p;15.73989kHz" 4.784926 256 272 272 304 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x224@56p;15.736kHz" 4.40608 240 256 248 280 224 244 271 281 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@57p;15.73856kHz" 4.784522 256 272 272 304 240 252 268 274 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@60p;15.74428kHz" 4.78626 256 272 272 304 224 238 257 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline "720x241@60p;15.76424kHz" 13.36807 720 752 784 848 241 249 259 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@59p;15.74625kHz" 4.78686 256 272 272 304 256 260 264 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "224x240@50p;15.75kHz" 4.158 224 240 232 264 240 264 303 315 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x192@60p;15.72kHz" 9.432 512 528 568 600 192 216 250 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@56p;15.736kHz" 4.783744 256 272 272 304 224 244 271 281 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x224@56p;15.736kHz" 7.049728 384 400 416 448 224 244 271 281 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@56p;15.736kHz" 4.783744 256 272 272 304 240 254 274 281 -hsync -vsync
modeline "511x399@55p;24.98207kHz" 14.98924 511 527 568 600 399 417 446 455 -hsync -vsync
modeline "399x253@55p;15.73195kHz" 7.425482 399 415 440 472 253 265 281 287 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x400@57p;25.00417kHz" 15.0025 512 528 568 600 400 412 430 436 -hsync -vsync
modeline "400x256@57p;15.753kHz" 7.435416 400 416 440 472 256 264 274 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x400@57p;25.02504kHz" 15.01502 512 528 568 600 400 412 432 438 -hsync -vsync
modeline "640x480@57p;31.521kHz" 23.70379 640 656 720 752 480 504 541 553 -hsync -vsync
modeline "400x256@60p;15.72kHz" 7.41984 400 416 440 472 256 258 261 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x256@50p;15.75kHz" 4.788 256 272 272 304 256 276 305 315 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x248@57p;15.77567kHz" 4.417186 240 256 248 280 248 258 273 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x240@54p;15.768kHz" 5.928768 320 336 344 376 240 258 283 292 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x224@61p;15.738kHz" 5.917488 320 336 344 376 224 236 252 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x256@61p;15.738kHz" 5.917488 320 336 344 376 256 256 258 258 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x224@61p;15.72327kHz" 5.911949 320 336 344 376 224 234 251 256 -hsync -vsync
modeline "248x224@60p;15.72kHz" 4.52736 248 264 256 288 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "240x216@60p;15.72kHz" 4.4016 240 256 248 280 216 232 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@54p;15.768kHz" 4.793472 256 272 272 304 224 246 281 292 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@54p;15.768kHz" 4.793472 256 272 272 304 240 258 283 292 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@54p;15.7634kHz" 4.792074 256 272 272 304 224 248 281 293 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x216@60p;15.72kHz" 4.77888 256 272 272 304 216 232 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "342x240@60p;15.72kHz" 6.288 342 358 368 400 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "319x223@60p;15.72kHz" 5.91072 319 335 344 376 223 235 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x224@59p;15.7738kHz" 5.930949 320 336 344 376 224 238 259 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x224@55p;15.73582kHz" 4.783688 256 272 272 304 224 244 274 284 -hsync -vsync
modeline "376x240@60p;15.72kHz" 6.9168 376 392 408 440 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "1024x512@60p;31.5kHz" 38.052 1024 1056 1144 1208 512 516 523 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "368x240@60p;15.72kHz" 6.79104 368 384 400 432 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x240@59p;15.7206kHz" 5.910945 320 336 344 376 240 248 262 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "480x240@59p;15.7206kHz" 8.929301 480 496 536 568 240 248 262 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x240@59p;15.7206kHz" 7.042829 384 400 416 448 240 248 262 266 -hsync -vsync
modeline "576x432@60p;31.5kHz" 21.42 576 592 648 680 432 464 509 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "272x232@60p;15.72kHz" 5.0304 272 288 288 320 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "448x224@60p;15.72kHz" 8.30016 448 464 496 528 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x240@57p;15.75148kHz" 7.056663 384 400 416 448 240 252 272 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline "448x240@60p;15.72kHz" 8.30016 448 464 496 528 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x232@60p;15.72kHz" 5.6592 304 320 328 360 232 242 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "336x236@60p;15.72kHz" 6.16224 336 352 360 392 236 244 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "344x240@60p;15.72kHz" 6.41376 344 360 376 408 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x384@60p;25.02kHz" 11.20896 384 400 416 448 384 396 411 417 -hsync -vsync
modeline "351x251@60p;15.72kHz" 6.53952 351 367 384 416 251 255 260 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x224@56p;15.736kHz" 5.916736 320 336 344 376 224 244 271 281 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x240@60p;15.74519kHz" 9.447115 512 528 568 600 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x234@60p;15.72kHz" 4.77888 256 272 272 304 234 244 257 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x280@60p;25.02kHz" 11.20896 384 400 416 448 280 326 394 417 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x288@60p;25.02kHz" 7.60608 256 272 272 304 288 332 395 417 -hsync -vsync
modeline "368x224@60p;15.72kHz" 6.79104 368 384 400 432 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x240@58p;15.776kHz" 5.67936 304 320 328 360 240 250 267 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x224@58p;15.776kHz" 5.931776 320 336 344 376 224 240 264 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x248@60p;15.72kHz" 4.77888 256 272 272 304 248 252 260 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "360x224@60p;15.72kHz" 6.66528 360 376 392 424 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "360x224@58p;15.776kHz" 6.689024 360 376 392 424 224 240 264 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "304x224@58p;15.776kHz" 5.67936 304 320 328 360 224 240 264 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "380x224@60p;15.72kHz" 7.04256 380 396 416 448 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x240@55p;15.73kHz" 5.91448 320 336 344 376 240 256 278 286 -hsync -vsync
modeline "508x224@60p;15.72kHz" 9.432 508 524 568 600 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "508x240@60p;15.72kHz" 9.432 508 524 568 600 240 248 258 262 -hsync -vsync



Yes i did use build 29

plus these new ones you created dont all work dont with monitor either.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 15, 2008, 06:56:11 pm
Mhm... It was a typo in the mode generator...
Try this one...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 15, 2008, 07:41:37 pm
  that worked with no errors, but monitor doesnt like those resolutions

couldnt sync

screen went crazy



 224x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.406697
  240x 224@ 60Hz -> 62.276498
  240x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.279536
  256x 208@ 60Hz -> 62.273001
  256x 208@ 61Hz -> 717.400162
  256x 224@ 60Hz -> 62.274461
  256x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.401621
  256x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.276498
  256x 256@ 60Hz -> 62.279536
  256x 264@ 60Hz -> 62.281696
  272x 224@ 60Hz -> 62.273001
  272x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.400162
  272x 236@ 60Hz -> 62.274053
  288x 224@ 60Hz -> 62.271904
  288x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.399064
  288x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.273001
  296x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.272416
  304x 224@ 60Hz -> 62.271048
  304x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.271904
  321x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.271001
  321x 256@ 60Hz -> 62.271844
  336x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.270363
  352x 256@ 60Hz -> 62.270363
  352x 264@ 60Hz -> 62.270688
  352x 288@ 60Hz -> 70.016090
  368x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.269333
  384x 288@ 60Hz -> 68.475332
  392x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.268760
  401x 256@ 60Hz -> 62.268914
  448x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.267815
  448x 384@ 60Hz -> 65.379417
  480x  64@ 60Hz -> 62.266231
  496x 480@ 60Hz -> 64.414690
  512x 224@ 60Hz -> 62.266985
  512x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.267119
  512x 288@ 60Hz -> 65.724360
  512x 384@ 60Hz -> 64.861554
  512x 448@ 60Hz -> 64.491323
  512x 512@ 60Hz -> 64.213470
  632x 264@ 60Hz -> 62.266461
  640x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.266302
  640x 288@ 60Hz -> 64.662233
  640x 480@ 60Hz -> 63.906188
  720x 480@ 60Hz -> 63.715531
  800x 600@ 60Hz -> 63.389011
 1024x 480@ 60Hz -> 63.271201
 1024x 768@ 60Hz -> 63.044792
 1280x 720@ 60Hz -> 62.935744
irectDraw: Mode selected =  224x 224@ 61Hz
irectDraw: primary surface created: 224x224x32 (R=00FF0000
)
irectDraw: New blit size = 224x288
irectDraw: blit surface created: 224x288x32 (R=00FF0000 G=
irectSound: Primary buffer: 48000 Hz, 16 bits, 2 channels
awInput: APIs detected
nput: Adding Mouse #1: \??\HID#Vid_045e&Pid_0039#6&2c66b9f
f-11d1-bc8c-00a0c91405dd}
nput: Adding Gun #1: \??\HID#Vid_045e&Pid_0039#6&2c66b9f9&
11d1-bc8c-00a0c91405dd}
nput: Adding Mouse #2: \??\HID#Vid_fafa&Pid_0020#6&37ce979
f-11d1-bc8c-00a0c91405dd}
nput: Adding Gun #2: \??\HID#Vid_fafa&Pid_0020#6&37ce9792&
11d1-bc8c-00a0c91405dd}
nput: Adding Mouse #3: \??\HID#Vid_fafa&Pid_0060#6&3293176
f-11d1-bc8c-00a0c91405dd}
nput: Adding Gun #3: \??\HID#Vid_fafa&Pid_0060#6&3293176f&
11d1-bc8c-00a0c91405dd}
nput: Adding Kbd #1: \??\HID#Vid_047b&Pid_0011#6&35de7bcd&
11d1-bc8c-00a0c91405dd}
nput: Adding Kbd #2: \??\HID#Vid_d209&Pid_0301&MI_00#8&2aa
-56ef-11d1-bc8c-00a0c91405dd}
nput: Adding Kbd #3: \??\HID#Vid_d209&Pid_0301&MI_01#8&6d4
56ef-11d1-bc8c-00a0c91405dd}
irectInput: Using DirectInput 7
nput: Changing default joystick map = s8.4s8.44s8.4445
 s8888888s
 4s88888s6
 44s888s66
 444555666
 444555666
 444555666
 44s222s66
 4s22222s6
 s2222222s
ound: buffer overflows=1 underflows=0
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 15, 2008, 08:07:05 pm
How did you hook up your monitor?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 15, 2008, 09:00:44 pm
VGA cable. Why do you ask?



Video card is X1900XT and has two  DVI and I use DVI to VGA converter

Dont have any issues

Here is specs on monitor

http://www.billabs.com/bl27cb0p.htm

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 15, 2008, 09:50:32 pm
Hm... Well then I can't help you.
I don't see why it doesn't work.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 15, 2008, 09:51:09 pm
Try only to add the usermodes, NOT the base 15kHz ones (as they ALL will be added with 60Hz to the registry).
As for MAME, in your INI try setting "resolution0" not "resolution", MAME seems to have some... pretty nasty behaviour...


I was reading over what you said here. Are you saying when using that monster list you created dont install 15khz just install usermodes? Custom15k resolutions override the usermodes??
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 16, 2008, 12:18:09 am
No... the base 15kHz modes get added as 60Hz, though the 288 line modes really just have 50Hz...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 16, 2008, 08:18:34 am
No... the base 15kHz modes get added as 60Hz, though the 288 line modes really just have 50Hz...


I understand that part. What I am asking is this. When using usermodes can resolutions from those usermodes co exist with the defaults in soft15. Again it seems like when a default resolution is present a duplicate resolutions with a different refresh inserting in the  usermodes.txt wont be  recongizned.

Only way I can get a different linemode is to remove that resolution from custom15khz and then re add new one.

Hm... Well then I can't help you.
I don't see why it doesn't work.



Dont give up on me. There has to be sometype of adjustment to the modelines to get them to work.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Xb0x3r on March 16, 2008, 11:36:41 am
I've got a WG 25k7193, currently with soft15kHz running (15khz installed) I don't seem to get any picture at all. I pulled this out of an old beat-up Outrunners Cab.

Any ideas on how to even get some sort of picture on it?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: john_abey on March 16, 2008, 01:17:08 pm
thanks for the great program :cheers:

hantarx polo 25" serial #40029
geforce 5200fx nvidia drivers and soft 15 only 15kHz installed

problem is there is a black line threw the screen half screen shows full screen other 1/4 of screen all over the place
<a href="http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg98/john_abey/?action=view&current=DSC01564.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg98/john_abey/DSC01564.jpg" border="0" alt="arcadesplitscreen"></a>

anyhelp would be much appreciated
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 16, 2008, 01:26:55 pm
When using usermodes can resolutions from those usermodes co exist with the defaults in soft15.
Yes they do, as the base 15kHz modes have the lowest priority.

Dont give up on me. There has to be sometype of adjustment to the modelines to get them to work.
I only can say that those modelines work fine for my two Hantarex Polos, my Hantarex MTC 9110 and my good old Commodore 1084.

You will have to investigate yourself where the problem is, as I simply don't have your monitor and thus no way to try around, sorry.


I've got a WG 25k7193, currently with soft15kHz running (15khz installed) I don't seem to get any picture at all. I pulled this out of an old beat-up Outrunners Cab.

Any ideas on how to even get some sort of picture on it?
Hm... What graphics card are you using? How is it connected with the monitor?


hantarx polo 25" serial #40029
geforce 5200fx nvidia drivers and soft 15 only 15kHz installed

problem is there is a black line threw the screen half screen shows full screen other 1/4 of screen all over the place
Mhm...
Looks to me as If your card output is still 31kHz.
What drivers do you use exactly?

What resolution do you have your Windows set to?
Does it happen with other resolution too?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Xb0x3r on March 16, 2008, 01:46:12 pm
Here's the thread with some pictures now, I just randomly got a picture on the monitor while fiddling around with the nVidia Control Panel. Now it thinks there are two monitors (which is true, one is my normal computer monitor).

I'm using an nVidia GeForce 5950

Here's the thread: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=77887.0
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 16, 2008, 02:02:06 pm
Yeah actually I "force" the detection of two monitors as a J-PAC or a Ultimarc VGA Amp won't be "sensed" as a valid display, which is bad If you want to use dualhead :)

As for now... Do you still have a image on your VGA monitor after reboot?
If so, your card doesn't output 15kHz but 31+kHz.

Also after installing Soft-15kHz DO a reboot, and don't fiddle around in the control panel, as it will overwrite any settings :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Xb0x3r on March 16, 2008, 08:24:23 pm
My VGA monitor does not show anything but "Frequency Over Range." Now the picture is decent but is partially squished at the bottom of the screen. I'll update my other thread tomorrow with pictures of it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: damdai on March 17, 2008, 10:46:18 am
Still no luck on getting soft15k to work for me. With powerstrip, I was able to create a custom 15k resolution and test it, but after rebooting it would not be selectable anywhere (through powerstrip and quickres). For some reason they aren't sticking in the registry or aren't being loaded from the registry upon reboot. Is there a way I can confirm this? Would the fact that I'm using windows server 2003 have anything to do with it? The architecture is virtually identical to XP. There has never been anything that runs on XP that I was not able to run on 2003. I purchased an arcadevga card. Hopefully this will solve my problems.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: john_abey on March 17, 2008, 08:00:44 pm
oem drivers version: 82.65z2

windows running 640 x 420

the higher i go the more desktops there are 1240 780 showed 3 desktops across screen
450x254 shows around 6 to 10 windows

thanks and keep working on the great program :cheers:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 17, 2008, 11:01:37 pm
oem drivers version: 82.65z2

windows running 640 x 420

the higher i go the more desktops there are 1240 780 showed 3 desktops across screen
450x254 shows around 6 to 10 windows

thanks and keep working on the great program :cheers:

Try this one -> http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_93.71.html



For some reason they aren't sticking in the registry or aren't being loaded from the registry upon reboot. --- Would the fact that I'm using windows server 2003 have anything to do with it? --- I purchased an arcadevga card. Hopefully this will solve my problems.

Hm...
As for 2003 Server, should work fine, I'm using XP-64Bit, which itself is basically 2003 Client.
I'm curious why the registry changes don't stick.

Hm yeah as long as you have an 32Bit Version of 2003 the ArcadeVGA should solve the problem, as there are no 64Bit drivers for the ArcadeVGA.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: damdai on March 17, 2008, 11:39:21 pm
Yea, I'm running 32bit. I'll post my results when I get the card set up.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: john_abey on March 18, 2008, 10:15:55 am
thanks the driver worked :cheers:
thanks the driver worked  >:D

now to get my keyboard hack working

when i checked nvidia the driver download was version 169 or so
how to find old drivers
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 18, 2008, 10:29:50 am
Theres a button somewhere to a driver archive :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on March 18, 2008, 01:56:33 pm
 I installed a PCI card and made it the primary display under the bios setting and I had also disabled the PCI display under windows and I still am getting the bios screens with both AGP & PCI card's connected with those settings.

 I figured I would leave the setting like above and pulled the PCI card out and rebooted the pc to see what happens and it still loaded the bios screens even without the pci hooked to the PC but with it was still set as the main display in the bios settings.

think the card is too old or malfunctioned?

I am running XP pro SP2 for a OS.

I also have 5 PCI slots and had the card sitting in slot#3 of the 5 PCI slots

any idea's?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 18, 2008, 02:13:03 pm
Hm... Thats strange. Should work, maybe your bios drives all available VGA cards.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: mchay on March 18, 2008, 03:34:38 pm
I'm sorry if this question has been answered, but here goes. I've setup my computer with soft15khz and connected it with JPAC to my arcade machine. It shows one picture fine, but it goes up and down - if you know what I mean. The picture doesn't stand still. It boots fine into windows, but it's not to any good use as long as the screen is jumping up and down.

Does anyone have a solution?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 18, 2008, 03:36:33 pm
You will have to adjust V-HOLD (or V-FREQ depending on manufacturer) on your monitor.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: mchay on March 18, 2008, 04:03:51 pm
Thanks for the very quick response, it now works like it should. Only minor adjustments needed.


I forgot to mention how much I appreciate your work. This is really a great piece of software :-)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 19, 2008, 06:31:29 pm

I also have 5 PCI slots and had the card sitting in slot#3 of the 5 PCI slots

any idea's?

I don't think just any of them will work for video.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on March 19, 2008, 08:16:32 pm
I got my new X1650 pro 512MB AGP in yesterday and I installed it today with soft15K.

Oh, my  :applaud:

it works great I only am running the stock 15K res's that are included and have not tried any custom user modes yet.

when I tried the pci with the arcadevga2 just to see if it would still work as posted on page one and it does not like it say's but with the new card it worked great.

the arcadevga2 will override the pci video card still so that trick does not work with the arcadevga2 card

I stumbled on that trying to get a head start I was not trying to use the arcadevga2 withsoft 15k lol.

when I tried to run soft15k on desktop I either got a error 75 or 9 in the folder and out of the folder gave the difference in the 2 error numbers but when it was in the folder and placed in C: it made no error's.

Ummon: on my mobo the pci video works in any of the 5 spots I use slots 1 3 5 to keep a better space for in between each card for better cooling. 



 

 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 21, 2008, 05:32:16 pm
I got my new X1650 pro 512MB AGP in yesterday and I installed it today with soft15K.

Oh, my  :applaud:

it works great I only am running the stock 15K res's that are included and have not tried any custom user modes yet.

when I tried the pci with the arcadevga2 just to see if it would still work as posted on page one and it does not like it say's but with the new card it worked great.

the arcadevga2 will override the pci video card still so that trick does not work with the arcadevga2 card

I stumbled on that trying to get a head start I was not trying to use the arcadevga2 withsoft 15k lol.

when I tried to run soft15k on desktop I either got a error 75 or 9 in the folder and out of the folder gave the difference in the 2 error numbers but when it was in the folder and placed in C: it made no error's.

Ummon: on my mobo the pci video works in any of the 5 spots I use slots 1 3 5 to keep a better space for in between each card for better cooling. 



 

 

Ah, good.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: JKJudgeX on March 22, 2008, 02:28:14 pm
Here's my setup:
GeForce 5700 le
Abandoned Street Fighter 2 Machine w/ functional JAMMA connector.
Ultimarc JPAC

Status:
I can turn on the machine, marquee lights, and screen comes on but stays totally black...

I can't seem to output anything to the screen when plugged in via the JPAC.
The Sync OK light stays off if I am in a normal windows resolution (as it's supposed to I think)...

When I switch to the right resolution via Powerstrip OR Soft 15khz, The sync OK light as well as the Signal light on the JPAC turn on, but the screen stays totally blank.

I also can't get my GeForce 5700 le to recognize that I have anything plugged into the second monitor port, so, I am having to change my resolution and then swap plugs.

Is there any place I can find a description of what the wires are coming from the monitor and where they are supposed to be plugged into the JAMMA connector?  Particularly confusing is the black wire with a red and blue U clip on it, I have no idea where that goes.

Any idea why nothing is making it to my arcade screen?  Am I doing something wrong?

Thank you so much, been working at this for weeks, and am stumped.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on March 22, 2008, 03:05:38 pm
Here's my setup...

Not sure you are really in the right thread.

Before you worry about soft15Khz/Powerstrip, you need to sort out your setup.

The jpac has a jumper on it that divides 31Khz signals, allowing you to see the bios screens on your arcade monitor. Make sure you enable this, then see if you can get a pic normally - until you get to the stage where you can, powerstrip and soft15Khz won't work for you.

Email Andy at Ultimarc for support - he is extremely helpful and good at supporting his products.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: JKJudgeX on March 22, 2008, 03:47:58 pm
Oh, where should I post this kind of question?  I don't know anyone locally at all here in small-town WV who could really help with this kind of thing...

I see the jumpers on the JPAC, I haven't modified them... at this point I think it's probably safest to assume that I've somehow dislodged a cable on the inside of the arcade machine (it's old and been moved a lot)...

There was a point when my inspiron laptop would show bios boot screens on this very machine, before I moved it, but, I don't know what I've changed.  There is a black cable coming from the back of the monitor with a blue and red connector that i don't remember where it's supposed to go, but, everything else seems plugged into the only logical place it will fit (aside from the panel controls)

Again, if this is the wrong place for this, I apologize... i'll look around the forums for a better place as soon as I get some lunch... I only post here because I experienced more success with soft15khz than anything else yet in terms of getting the sync OK light on my jpac to light up appropriately.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on March 22, 2008, 04:07:03 pm
No its fine - I meant more that you will have more luck elsewhere - say start a new topic in this forum with your problem - because more people will see it, rather than just those who are following soft-15Khz software development.

I don't have a jpac/arcadevga (one of the reasons I'm using soft-15Khz) so dont' know it well, just know about the 31Khz jumper from the ultimarc website.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on March 25, 2008, 07:06:30 pm
ok.. I'm still having quite a bit of trouble after tweaking custom txt files for the past week or so.   I have a radeon x1550 with a Betson trisync.. I'm really starting to think its the card because this monitor "should" be able to handle just about anything...  but I've had to remove most of the useful resolutions because they would work.

remove 256,240
remove 256,256
remove 256,264
remove 288,240
remove 296,240
remove 304,240
remove 321,240
remove 321,256
remove 336,240
remove 352,256
remove 352,264
remove 368,240
remove 384,288
remove 392,240
remove 401,256
remove 1280,720


I especially need 352x288 for Pacman,Contra, etc and 401x256 for Mortal Kombat, NBA Jam, SF2 etc...

most resolution in that ball park either come up insanely out or range or crash my computer with a hard reset..  Here's a screen cap of the resolutions I got to work.. most of them useless...


EDIT  Just found this:  http://sourceforge.net/projects/lrmc   maybe I can get something working...  :dunno
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on March 25, 2008, 09:34:40 pm
how do I get LRMC to output in a format that's the same as Soft 15Khz?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: fullygully on March 26, 2008, 11:47:34 am
Hi i'm using soft-15khz on my hantarex monitor (15khz) and all works great (mame32) except for the cps3 emulator and the daphne emulator they both give me a black screen after loading.
Is this cause they output a 25 khz signal or am i doing something wrong.

greetz rob
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 26, 2008, 01:36:18 pm
They both output 15kHz, if you only installed 15kHz resolutions.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: fullygully on March 26, 2008, 01:56:47 pm
So any ideas on why i get a black screen after loading with cps3 and daphne?

greetz rob
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 26, 2008, 02:43:50 pm
What resolutions do they use?
CPS3 works fine in MAME.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: fullygully on March 26, 2008, 06:09:21 pm
cps3 lets you choose from 640:480 and upwards ( i choose 640:480) daphne also uses 640:480.

greetz rob
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on March 26, 2008, 06:31:19 pm
earlier in the thread I thought that someone said that ATI didnt have a limit on the number of resolutions you can add only Nvidia.. but I'm running into a limit.  Seems to be about 40.. which would be plenty for Mame but right now when I'm testing hundreds of resolutions to find the few that work.. I guess if I understood the modeline calculator but right now its guesswork for me
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 27, 2008, 04:25:31 pm
cps3 lets you choose from 640:480 and upwards ( i choose 640:480) daphne also uses 640:480.

greetz rob

And since your monitor is 15khz, it won't do those, unless it's 640x480 interlaced, yeah? You're not getting a 'black' screen, I think - it's the monitor shutting down until you exit the game. I think you should go to the wiki....as well as research this thread a bit.


Brandon - I don't know what problems you could be having. Plenty of people have been using soft15 Betson multisyncs (I think even the tri-sync) with no problems. I'm using an X1650 with soft15, no problems. I'd recommend starting from scratch, and re-installing the default resolutions. Alternatively, at least just for education's sake, you could scare up my Advancemame thread, follow the tutorial for auto mode, and see how it operates. (Pay attention to the top of the tab menu in-game as it'll show you the pixel, v, and h clocks.)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on March 27, 2008, 06:09:14 pm
Thanks Ummon!  my suspicion is that it has to do with the pixel clock..  I get out of sync errors on all the lower resolutions for some reason... but I would be happy with a "doublescan" like 704x288 instead of 352x288 but I can't figure out how do generate the right modeline code using LRMC...   What drivers are you using? Catalyst or omega?  are you using XP?  well, I guess I'll give AdvanceMame another try.. thanks!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: fullygully on March 28, 2008, 11:55:47 am
Problem solved :)  for the black screen in cps3 and daphne emu .

I was using an NVIDIA RIVA TNT@/TNT2 pro wich gave me the black screen after loading.

(In mame the cps3 roms worked perfectly but not in the cps3 emulator.)

I've switched to an ati radeon 9600 and now daphne and the cps3 emulator don't give the black screen anymore and are working perfectly now.

So i had to do someting with the nvidia card .

greetz rob

tx very much for soft 15khz it works great :)







































Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 29, 2008, 05:49:36 pm
Thanks Ummon!  my suspicion is that it has to do with the pixel clock..  I get out of sync errors on all the lower resolutions for some reason... but I would be happy with a "doublescan" like 704x288 instead of 352x288 but I can't figure out how do generate the right modeline code using LRMC...   What drivers are you using? Catalyst or omega?  are you using XP?  well, I guess I'll give AdvanceMame another try.. thanks!

Oh, you know what, I don't think the (advmame) svgawin drivers will work with your card. They don't work with mine. Sorry. Let me know if they do, though. I'm using XP SP2. I've used both the stock drivers on the CD that came with the card and Omega. They behaved the same. I don't know what LRMC is - I've only used the X86 or whatever calculator. Before calculating modes, I think it's helpful to look at both of the following:

http://kirurg.org/emame/timing/

http://easymamecab.mameworld.net/html/monitor1.htm


Also, look up the other three modes in the thread that SS created. (I don't have them handy.)



Problem solved :)  for the black screen in cps3 and daphne emu .

I was using an NVIDIA RIVA TNT@/TNT2 pro wich gave me the black screen after loading.


Hm. I have one of those, but it's in a win98 machine and I couldn't get soft15 modes to even load. I dunno.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 29, 2008, 06:38:34 pm
Hehe, no NVidia on 98 Ummon ;)
Also you'll need the Visual Basic Runtime in 98 :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 29, 2008, 07:10:20 pm
Hey when I had my nvidia 7950GT card I had no problems with CPS 3 games, Now with my ATI x1950XT screen goes black. Daphne is fine though.

Wonder whats causing problem
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 29, 2008, 11:50:41 pm
Hehe, no NVidia on 98 Ummon ;)
Also you'll need the Visual Basic Runtime in 98 :)

Ya, sorry, I forgot about that. (No wonder it kept saying radeon 7000 series when I'd start it up, as I guess I still have those drivers in there.) Natch. But I got Advancemame running with it. Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Stobe on March 30, 2008, 01:38:25 am
First time Soft15Khz user.....

I installed it on Windows XP. Vid card is an old Geforce MX (with forceware 7.something, I think??) Clicked on "Install 15Khz".  Then changed system resolution to 640x480 60Hz.

Then I rebooted and hooked it up to my standard res jamma cab.

I got the double screen through bios and Windows loading screen.

Then at the login screen, this is what I got.  And clue what I missed?

Thanks for any help!
-Stobe
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on March 30, 2008, 04:43:25 am
I'm beginnng to think that the X1550 just isnt very compatible.. I initially tried catalyst 8.3 and then rolled back to 7.3. it still  wont do those lower resolution like 352x288 and 401x256. I think I might just give in and try an AVGA.. X550 should still be ok for PC gaming too ???
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 30, 2008, 07:36:36 am
I installed it on Windows XP. Vid card is an old Geforce MX (with forceware 7.something, I think??) Clicked on "Install 15Khz".  Then changed system resolution to 640x480 60Hz.

It would be nice to know what forceware exactly you are using.
As for the Windows Image, it MAY be your card does not support interlace, so try changing the desktop resolution now (can be pretty tricky though) to something like 640x240.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 31, 2008, 01:32:01 am
I have a Geforce4 MX440 (I think 88. something ware) on XP and had not trouble with soft15. However, I am having trouble with an ati rage 128 pro on win98. After several attempts and a few hours, and NOTHING at ATI being compatible, I FINALLY found a driver that worked on some super obscure site. But, soft15 doesn't recognize the adapter....
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 31, 2008, 06:21:20 am
Well only ATI catalyst drivers are supported, and those only support Radeon based cards, no Rage128 sry.
However you should try AdvMAME with this one.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 31, 2008, 05:48:20 pm
Well only ATI catalyst drivers are supported, and those only support Radeon based cards, no Rage128 sry.
However you should try AdvMAME with this one.

Oh, right, only Catalyst. Sheesh, double minus for reading comprehension. You know, I did try Advancemame - and I got some weird gibberish about signal something, and it went back to the prompt.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on April 02, 2008, 12:03:36 am
OK..  I just tested Soft 15Khz on an entirely different PC with a Geforce 4 TI4280 (AGP).  It worked PERFECTLY :D  So now I know that the problems I was having before were all because of the Radeon X1550.  With the X1550 none of the following 15khz resolutions would work:

256 240 60Hz
256 256 60Hz
256 264 60Hz
288 240 60Hz
296 240 60Hz
304 240 60Hz
321 240 60Hz
321 256 60Hz
336 240 60Hz
352 256 60Hz
352 264 60Hz
352 288 50Hz
368 240 60Hz
384 288 50Hz
392 240 60Hz
401 256 53Hz

The TI4280 worked wonderfully...   BUT it wont work in my Mame cab because its AGP.  Looks like the X1550 is going up for sale! :)

Any suggestions for PCI-E cards??
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 02, 2008, 06:39:34 am
nvidia 7600gt
but i'm looking for a "good" card myself right now :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 02, 2008, 10:43:20 am
I just installed this last night and what a great piece of software.  Thanks! 
I have a couple questions though.  Since I have a Betson Multisync, I installed 15khz, then 25khz, and then 31khz.  I also added a line in custom31khz.txt for a progressive 800x600 and that seemed to work perfectly.  Things seem to be working well so far -- tried a few 15khz resolutions and they look great.  The desktop also looks great at 800x600.  However, I noticed I am missing a 321x240 15khz entry.  There is a 320x240, but when I select it it's really a VGA resolution (monitor OSD shows 31khz @ 60hz).  Any idea how to fix this?

Also, I am wondering if it's possible to have an interlaced 1024x768 25khz mode for people with EGA monitors or multisyncs? 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 02, 2008, 10:49:27 am
As for 321x240... hm... yeah good question...

As for interlaced 1024x768... try this one
modeline '1024x768@59,959i' 29,49 1024 1040 1136 1200 768 776 782 820 interlace -hsync -vsync
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 02, 2008, 11:15:32 am
Thanks for the 1024x768 modeline!  :)

As for 321x240... hm... yeah good question...

Do you think I could add a 321x240 modeline to usermodes.txt and then 'install user mode'?  Will that mess anything up?  Do you happen to have a modeline for that I can try?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on April 02, 2008, 11:50:31 am
Thanks for the 1024x768 modeline!  :)

As for 321x240... hm... yeah good question...

Do you think I could add a 321x240 modeline to usermodes.txt and then 'install user mode'?  Will that mess anything up?  Do you happen to have a modeline for that I can try?

what kind of card are you using?

maybe try this one...    its 320x240 at 15khz

modeline "320x240@57p;15,732kHz" 6,670368 320 336 392 424 240 252 270 276
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 02, 2008, 12:01:21 pm
That may work, however you should change the active 320 pixels to 321, as Windows surely f*cks around with it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 02, 2008, 12:27:21 pm
It's an ATI 9600XT.
Which '320' do I change to '321'? LOL (Sorry I'm a newbie at these modelines).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 02, 2008, 12:34:31 pm
both ;)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on April 02, 2008, 12:35:47 pm
That may work, however you should change the active 320 pixels to 321, as Windows surely f*cks around with it.

what is the point of adding the extra pixel?  or is it too much to explain?  :D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 02, 2008, 12:37:49 pm
Windows handles all 320x resolutions in a special way, and will linedouble them. (which we don't want)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on April 02, 2008, 12:40:56 pm
ahh..  so that's why his 320x240 mode is 31 khz? I think I get it :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 02, 2008, 12:54:21 pm
Exactly
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 03, 2008, 12:03:40 am
Well the 1024x768i worked like a charm (thanks), but I still can't get 321x240 (and I NEED IT!).  In fact, looking at your list of resolutions on your project page (http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=8170), all the ones with a red asterisk (ie. "Fake"-Resolution to avoid DirectX-Problems) are missing from quickres.  Do I have some directX incompatibility?  I'm running 9.0c.  Any ideas for me to try?  Here's what I have loaded:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 03, 2008, 03:40:47 am
What Catalyst Version do you use?
It shouldn't show up 400x300  and 320x240 either :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 03, 2008, 09:50:22 am
Whatever the latest one is (ATI's driver site seems to be down).  I tried the ATI drivers with and without catalyst, and I also tried the latest omega drivers (based on catalyst 7.12 I think).  All do the same thing.  :banghead:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 03, 2008, 10:00:16 am
Hm thats strange. Don't know what to try.

As for pci-express cards. I'd recommend a X600 series card, or a geforce 7.
I received a Radeon x1650 Pro today, which doesn't work at all (minimum pixel clock 7,12MHz)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on April 04, 2008, 04:23:00 pm
According to EasyMamecab, if it goes down to at least 8mhz, it should be usable.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 04, 2008, 04:24:46 pm
The base modelines go down below 5MHz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Stobe on April 04, 2008, 05:59:31 pm
I installed it on Windows XP. Vid card is an old Geforce MX (with forceware 7.something, I think??) Clicked on "Install 15Khz".  Then changed system resolution to 640x480 60Hz.

It would be nice to know what forceware exactly you are using.
As for the Windows Image, it MAY be your card does not support interlace, so try changing the desktop resolution now (can be pretty tricky though) to something like 640x240.

Forceware 77.72

I was able to boot all the way into windows and change the resolution to 640x240 (this was a task!).  And now the desktop fits within the bounds of the screen.  But all the icons are huge and not much fits. (as expected with such a low resolution).  But the problem is, after a reboot, the "choose user" screen only has enough pixels to show the windows logo, and "Shut Down".  I cannot seem to pick my user.  (and thus, cannot get to windows to tell it not to ask for users, lol).

Any clues?

-Stobe
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 04, 2008, 06:04:09 pm
plug it to a VGA monitor and hit f8 on startup, then tell windows to stard in VGA mode (which disables the drivers for this time) then you should be able to disable user selection.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on April 04, 2008, 06:44:34 pm
01622: [Core] -refreshspeed has no effect (Aaron Giles)


I saw that as a fix in mame 124u1. Does the -refreshspeed address games that run over 60hz with tripple buffering on?

Wondering if it will address the sound stuttering in mame
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: BASS! on April 05, 2008, 02:12:02 am
I've got a Sony PVM-2530 and a Geforce 8400gs pci-e and cannot seem to get it to work. I get the split screen at 640x480 and then when I load it and restart the machine starts up black. When I grab the other monitor it just reads "out of sync" and shuts off. Anyone have good results with this card?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 05, 2008, 05:45:09 am
As far as I can tell, the GeForce 8 Series does NOT work at all.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on April 05, 2008, 08:09:44 am
You know I was running mame 122 on my laptop and pacman and donkey kong awlays sound studdered but with 124u1 the run fine. Wondering what they fixed. I havent tried on my arcade cabinet but I am wondering if I will even need sailors soundsync.diff
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: BASS! on April 06, 2008, 06:32:03 am
As far as I can tell, the GeForce 8 Series does NOT work at all.
I was thinking as much. Any plan for a work around?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on April 06, 2008, 04:21:18 pm
You know I was running mame 122 on my laptop and pacman and donkey kong awlays sound studdered but with 124u1 the run fine. Wondering what they fixed. I havent tried on my arcade cabinet but I am wondering if I will even need sailors soundsync.diff

I saw R. Belmont (I think) saying how far couriersud had come with DK sound emulation, so I picked up 124.1 and was pleasantly surprised. Not only is the sound much clearer and defined, but it doesn't dog my machine and runs at 100% almost 100% of the time. Now if they can just fix a couple other games' sound, I'll be using it...or maybe I'll just compile back in samples for those games.


As far as I can tell, the GeForce 8 Series does NOT work at all.
I was thinking as much. Any plan for a work around?

You missed this earlier in the thread.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on April 06, 2008, 06:21:55 pm
Hm thats strange. Don't know what to try.

As for pci-express cards. I'd recommend a X600 series card, or a geforce 7.
I received a Radeon x1650 Pro today, which doesn't work at all (minimum pixel clock 7,12MHz)

how about the x700?  newegg doesnt sell the x600 anymore...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on April 06, 2008, 11:07:51 pm
Hm thats strange. Don't know what to try.

As for pci-express cards. I'd recommend a X600 series card, or a geforce 7.
I received a Radeon x1650 Pro today, which doesn't work at all (minimum pixel clock 7,12MHz)

what make and model was the x1650 you got?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on April 06, 2008, 11:14:59 pm
Hm thats strange. Don't know what to try.

As for pci-express cards. I'd recommend a X600 series card, or a geforce 7.
I received a Radeon x1650 Pro today, which doesn't work at all (minimum pixel clock 7,12MHz)

what make and model was the x1650 you got?

maybe she got it working.. ??? somewhat at least.. .

http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=7925&page=4
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 06, 2008, 11:47:26 pm
what make and model was the x1650 you got?

It's a Sapphire X1650 Pro


how about the x700?  newegg doesnt sell the x600 anymore...
Don't know. The ArcadeVGA2 PCIE used an X550, so I suppose other cards of the Radeon-X series (below x1000) work too.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on April 06, 2008, 11:56:45 pm
mine is a sapphire x1650 pro agp slot type and it works with 95% of the stuff that the arcadevga2.

I used the stock 15K setup only but if there is a way to get the mssing 5% somehow then it would work 100% for me.

I have not done any custom files of my own yet but all the ones I have copied and pasted off these page's would not work for me at all so far.

for those who have problems try using the stock settings first instead of custom ones and see if it helps or not.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on April 07, 2008, 12:47:33 am
I just ordered a Geforce 7600GS from ebay...  so far I've had better luck with Nvidia so I'm going to give this one a try.. probably better 3D performance than the Radeon X1550 anyways..
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on April 07, 2008, 02:57:39 pm
my card required a little software tweak to handle a few res's that sailer was aware of and already had an easy fix so now everything is 100% that I throw at it.


awsome tool hands down  :cheers:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on April 08, 2008, 07:44:02 am
I have a 7950 GT that works perfect with soft 15khz and is a way better card then the 7600. I will sell it for $75 plus shipping. If anyone is interested.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on April 08, 2008, 03:31:41 pm
Hm thats strange. Don't know what to try.

As for pci-express cards. I'd recommend a X600 series card, or a geforce 7.
I received a Radeon x1650 Pro today, which doesn't work at all (minimum pixel clock 7,12MHz)

what make and model was the x1650 you got?

maybe she got it working.. ??? somewhat at least.. .

http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=7925&page=4

Well, if you know how to work the equation, there are alternatives. It can take a bit of trial and hardware, particularly specific to one's hardware (both video adapter and monitor).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on April 08, 2008, 09:13:01 pm
I ran resident evil 4 at 800x600 on the x1650 and it is too cool on the arcade rig the arcadevga2 would not display or run it at all when I tried it with that but it works and looks great now.

I also ran company of heroes, battlestations midway, onimusha 3, desert thunder, and have theatre of war and faces of war on the way now since I know they wil run also.

scarface has failed soon as the actual game starts but I am unsure what is actually causing it to lock up but it states something about the ati drivers dont support something on it when it cuase's the crash but O'well can't win them all I guess  ;D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 09, 2008, 06:10:18 pm
Sailor, if a card has some default line-doubled resolutions that are preventing the real 15khz from being added, is it not possible to remove them with the 'remove xxx,yyy' format in the custom15khz.txt file? 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 10, 2008, 04:47:40 am
Hm...
the "remove" statement only removes resolutions from the Soft-15kHz list.
However Soft-15kHz should remove any base resolution from your VGA card.

The first exception are resolutions that your monitor sends to the card via DDC signals, but in that case your monitor would support them anyway.
The second exception would be on ATI cards, once ATI adds new "default" resolutions to the drivers (like the added 1280x720 some time ago) as those need to be put on the "black" list.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on April 10, 2008, 05:37:59 am
so resolutions I had to remove with refreshforce because adding the remove line in the custom.xxxx.txt did get rid of it... maybe that's an ATI thing
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 10, 2008, 11:10:11 am
Holy crap... Just got my "X600", which turned out to be something that doesn't exist ;)

The BIOS says its an RV380XT, which would be some kind of X550, but it ALSO says (per device ID) its an X600 series
Another funny fact is that it has a 350 MHz core clock and a RAM clock of 250 MHz (500 MHz DDR) which also doesn't match any of those ATI reference cards ;D
The best part is the catalyst driver which say its an "ATI Radeon x300/x550/x600/x1050 series"...

Whatever...
This card can go down to about 4MHz pixelclock which is fine for 240x240 (and lower) resolutions, however it does not show 321x240, 321x256 and 401x256 pixel resolutions in the list... Also it shows 320x240, 400x300, 1024x480 (and various others) resolutions which will be output in 31+ kHz.

As for now I can't get them "removed" from the list.
Well... Lets see what the weekend offers ;)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Popcorrin on April 10, 2008, 04:37:40 pm
Well the 1024x768i worked like a charm (thanks), but I still can't get 321x240 (and I NEED IT!).  In fact, looking at your list of resolutions on your project page (http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=8170), all the ones with a red asterisk (ie. "Fake"-Resolution to avoid DirectX-Problems) are missing from quickres.  Do I have some directX incompatibility?  I'm running 9.0c.  Any ideas for me to try?  Here's what I have loaded:

Hi ahofle,

  I have a med res monitor so I was planning on using 1024 x768i and I was wondering if you were pleased with how it looked?  Is the interlacing pretty noticeable(flickery)?

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 10, 2008, 06:14:26 pm
I'm very pleased.  It's a bit flickery in windows of course, but that is pretty unavoidable.  Looks great in games though.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: spuds on April 10, 2008, 07:15:07 pm
hi all

I downloaded soft15 and ran it - but everything is all grey -

below are specs of  my PC - which I will use in an arcade machine via JPAC.
I only have onboard video.  This PC will ONLY be used for this application.

Also I do not have it hooked to the cab yet - I have it hooked to an LCD till I get everything working as i am a total noob to this.

I am using GameEx FE and I have MAME, PJ64 and ZSNES currently working on this PC fine.

The cab I am going to use is a D & D  mystara - with a well gardner model no. 25k7193.

Can someone point me in the right direction on this ?/

THANKS !!!
   
PC SPECS
Brand:    
Dell
      Memory (RAM):    
1,024 MB
   
Family:    
OptiPlex
      Hard Drive Capacity:    
160 GB
   
Processor Type:    
Intel Pentium 4 HT
      Operating System:    
Windows XP Professional
   
Processor Model:    
--
      Primary Drive:    
DVD+/-RW
   
Processor Speed:    
2,800 MHz
      Condition:    
Refurbished
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Popcorrin on April 10, 2008, 08:11:11 pm
I'm very pleased.  It's a bit flickery in windows of course, but that is pretty unavoidable.  Looks great in games though.

I am excited to hear that.

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Popcorrin on April 10, 2008, 08:13:48 pm
hi all

I downloaded soft15 and ran it - but everything is all grey -

below are specs of  my PC - which I will use in an arcade machine via JPAC.
I only have onboard video.  This PC will ONLY be used for this application.

Also I do not have it hooked to the cab yet - I have it hooked to an LCD till I get everything working as i am a total noob to this.

I am using GameEx FE and I have MAME, PJ64 and ZSNES currently working on this PC fine.

The cab I am going to use is a D & D  mystara - with a well gardner model no. 25k7193.

Can someone point me in the right direction on this ?/

THANKS !!!
   
PC SPECS
Brand:    
Dell
      Memory (RAM):    
1,024 MB
   
Family:    
OptiPlex
      Hard Drive Capacity:    
160 GB
   
Processor Type:    
Intel Pentium 4 HT
      Operating System:    
Windows XP Professional
   
Processor Model:    
--
      Primary Drive:    
DVD+/-RW
   
Processor Speed:    
2,800 MHz
      Condition:    
Refurbished

If everything is greyed out, it is most likely due to the fact that your graphics adapter is not compatible.  I'm guessing your system has an older onboard intel chipset and I know from experience that it is not compatible.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: spuds on April 10, 2008, 08:23:56 pm
If everything is greyed out, it is most likely due to the fact that your graphics adapter is not compatible.  I'm guessing your system has an older onboard intel chipset and I know from experience that it is not compatible

So,  what are my choices - do I buy a video card?
If so which one should I get for this machine.. please recommend something that is not expensive as i am on a tight budget here. but I do want this to work well - also NOTHING else will be running on this PC except this setup.

THANKS !!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 10, 2008, 09:17:42 pm
Are you saying you are running Soft15khz on an LCD?  Can you be more specific about your issue?  What specific resolution is showing grey?  You do realize that you can't display 15khz resolutions on an LCD right?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on April 10, 2008, 09:33:37 pm
Are you saying you are running Soft15khz on an LCD?  Can you be more specific about your issue?  What specific resolution is showing grey?  You do realize that you can't display 15khz resolutions on an LCD right?

This, and it'll help if he reads the soft15 literature thoroughly. I did try out an Intel integrated board set, but it was kitschy, and besides it only offers five modes. So, spuds, yes. Get a card.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on April 10, 2008, 10:00:11 pm
Holy crap... Just got my "X600", which turned out to be something that doesn't exist ;)

This card can go down to about 4MHz pixelclock which is fine for 240x240 (and lower) resolutions, however it does not show 321x240, 321x256 and 401x256 pixel resolutions in the list... Also it shows 320x240, 400x300, 1024x480 (and various others) resolutions which will be output in 31+ kHz.

As for now I can't get them "removed" from the list.
Well... Lets see what the weekend offers ;)

I wish you lots of luck with this quest, and not just because I love your work - I'm using an ASUS A9550 (ATI chipset) and missing the same resolutions .... which is upsetting, because my frontend layouts are all designed for 321x240.  On another thread I notice that ahofle is also having similar problems with his 9600XT.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=66366.new;topicseen#new
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: nobbo on April 10, 2008, 11:38:39 pm
i have an ATI Radeon 9250 128MB lying around, so i thought i would try this out with that, i installed the card, installed the Catalyst 6.1 drivers, which are said to work fine with this model on the other forum, ran Soft-15khz, clicked the Install 15Khz button and restarted the PC. After windows had booted, the signal on my VGA went out of range for it, which I expected, but when I plugged in my arcade monitor all I had was a bunch of flickering lines and not much else.

Now, without fiddling with the monitor settings, I uninstalled this card and all the drivers, and reinstalled my ArcadeVGA (which is the model before the current ones - Radeon 7000 i think), hooked up my arcade monitor again, and the picture comes out great.

My question is:
Am I installing Soft-15khz right or am I missing something completely, and if this is all good, would it be possible that a card with Soft15 would require different hold etc settings on the actual monitor, than those that are good with an AVGA??
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on April 11, 2008, 02:09:17 am
..... ran Soft-15khz, clicked the Install 15Khz button and restarted the PC. After windows had booted, the signal on my VGA went out of range for it, which I expected, but when I plugged in my arcade monitor all I had was a bunch of flickering lines and not much else.

After installing Soft15khz, Did you try changing your desktop resolution to 640x480 before rebooting?  If your default desktop res is something like 1024x768, you'll get the problems you described. 

If this happens , connect the PC to a VGA monitor and boot into safe mode.  Make sure you have 640x480 selected.  Then reboot normally.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: nobbo on April 11, 2008, 03:43:42 am
i did make sure that i had selected 640X480 before i rebooted, i might give the card another shot and see if it keeps happening
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: spuds on April 11, 2008, 07:54:22 am
Are you saying you are running Soft15khz on an LCD?  Can you be more specific about your issue?  What specific resolution is showing grey?  You do realize that you can't display 15khz resolutions on an LCD right?

it is hooked up to an LCD now - BUT, I will be connecting it to the arcade cab which will be its permanent home - what I was/am trying to do is get everything installed on this PC BEFORE I attempt to connect it to the cab.
When I installed soft15 - it shows no choices highlighted nor will it allow me to select anything - so what I am understanding from you folks is that it is not compatible with the onboard video card, true?

So if I go an buy a video card, and install it , THEN will I be able to tell if everything is right with my setup by viewing it on the LCD BEFORE I do the install to the cab??

Also can you guys reccomend me a cheap video card that will work with this program and my PC ??

THANKS for your help guys !!  as you can tell I am not well versed on this whole process and read as I might it I still cannot get it in my head  :dizzy: :dizzy:

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on April 11, 2008, 08:13:19 am
When I installed soft15 - it shows no choices highlighted nor will it allow me to select anything - so what I am understanding from you folks is that it is not compatible with the onboard video card, true?

Soft15khz is almost certainly not compatible with onboard video.

So if I go an buy a video card, and install it , THEN will I be able to tell if everything is right with my setup by viewing it on the LCD BEFORE I do the install to the cab??

Sure.  Connect to the LCD and install the basic video card drivers.  But note that you won't be able to get anything on your LCD after you have installed Soft15khz and rebooted (and you won't get anything until Windows actually loads up).  This is the time when you need to attach the PC to your arcade monitor.

Also can you guys reccomend me a cheap video card that will work with this program and my PC ??

There is an ever-growing list of compatible video cards on another forum.  There is a link near the beginning of this thread.  Personally, I like the ATI Radeon 9250 cards (or anything using that chipset) because they seem to work without any problems.  But don't install the Catalyst Control panel software thingy - it isn't necessary, and might even cause some problems.  Just install the ATI 9250 driver itself.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: spuds on April 11, 2008, 07:54:01 pm
ok thanks
I went to the dell site and fro my PC they show several compatible cards
geforce fx5200
geforce 4mx

would your raedeon 9250's work do you think?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on April 12, 2008, 01:15:47 pm
ok thanks
I went to the dell site and fro my PC they show several compatible cards
geforce fx5200
geforce 4mx

would your raedeon 9250's work do you think?

make sure your psu can handle whatever card you choose otherwise you may also need a larger psu if you dont look into that before hand.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on April 12, 2008, 02:00:40 pm
I've actually used AVGA2 AGP cards, which have the 9250 chipset, with Dell GX270N "Optiplex" PC's previously.  These are like their smaller cousins, but have tower cases.  Smaller Dell's are more common, and you may need a smaller profile card.

Having said that, I've hacked an old low-profile Compaq PC (P4 2.0 GHz, ex-office desktop) to accept a larger ATI 9550 card - I just have to leave the case cover off to accommodate the extra height.  Makes for a very cheap but reliable arcade/media player solution.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 12, 2008, 06:12:04 pm
Whatever...
This card can go down to about 4MHz pixelclock which is fine for 240x240 (and lower) resolutions, however it does not show 321x240, 321x256 and 401x256 pixel resolutions in the list... Also it shows 320x240, 400x300, 1024x480 (and various others) resolutions which will be output in 31+ kHz.

As for now I can't get them "removed" from the list.
Well... Lets see what the weekend offers ;)

Well I just got my Radeon 9800 Pro installed (same exact model listed on the Soft15khz board as 'compatible') and it has the same line doubled resolutions listed (320x200, 320x240, and 400x300).  :angry:  :timebomb: 
I guess that was a waste of money LOL.  I sure hope you figure out how to remove those.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 12, 2008, 08:46:56 pm
May be a driver issue :(

For the time being...
http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/radeonxprevious-xp.html
maybe an older driver will work.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on April 16, 2008, 02:57:51 pm
In looking over PC2JAMMA for a project, I read the following and remembered when everybody was skeptical Soft15 would work by simply 're-writing the registers':

Quote
The front end (ArcadeOS.EXE) also allows other emulators without a -NTSC option to be connected directly to an arcade monitor.

It does this by reprogramming the VGA timing registers to match a standard res arcade monitor.


http://www.mameworld.net/pc2jamma/pc_arc3.html
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 17, 2008, 01:00:34 am
As for my X600 card (it IS an unknown [OEM?] ASUS card) I've managed to get it working with the 321px width resolutions.

I've fooled around the whole weekend and lastly tried some older drivers.
Actually I've installed Catalyst 6.5 and the card works like charm, however I couldn't get it working with Catalyst 7.12.

I think I'll start a driver archive, as it is pretty hard to get older drivers from the ATI site.

As for everyone using X600 or older cards, with the "320x240" problem, try:
http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat65-xp.html
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 17, 2008, 01:38:11 am
ATI driver archive...


Catalyst 8.3   9500-HD3800   March 5, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat83-xp.html
Catalyst 8.2   9500-HD3800   Feb. 13, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat82-xp.html
Catalyst 8.1   9500-HD3800   Jan. 16, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat81-xp.html

Catalyst 7.12   9500-HD3800   Dec. 20, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat712-xp.html
Catalyst 7.11   9500-HD3800   Nov. 21, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat711-xp.html
Catalyst 7.10   9500-HD2900   Oct. 11, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat710-xp.html
Catalyst 7.9   9500-HD2900   Sept. 10, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat79-xp.html
Catalyst 7.8   9500-HD2900   Aug. 13, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat78-xp.html
Catalyst 7.7   9500-HD2900   July 19, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat77-xp.html
Catalyst 7.6   9500-HD2900   June 25, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat76-xp.html
Catalyst 7.5   9500-HD2900   May 31, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat75-xp.html
Catalyst 7.4   9500-x1950   April 18, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat74-xp.html
Catalyst 7.3   9500-x1950   Mar. 28, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat73-xp.html
Catalyst 7.2   9500-x1950   Feb. 21, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat72-xp.html
Catalyst 7.1   9500-x1950   January 10, 2007   http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat71-xp.html

Catalyst 6.12   9500-x1950   Dec. 13, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat612-xp.html
Catalyst 6.11   9500-x1950   November 15,2006   http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat611-xp.html
Catalyst 6.10   9500-x1900   Oct. 31, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat610-xp.html
Catalyst 6.9   9500-x1900   Sept. 20, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat69-xp.html
Catalyst 6.8   9500-x1900   Aug. 18, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat68-xp.html
Catalyst 6.7   9500-x1900   July 28, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat67-xp.html
Catalyst 6.6   9500-x1900   June 26, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat66-xp.html
Catalyst 6.5   7000-x1900   May 24,2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat65-xp.html
Catalyst 6.4   7000-x1900   April 12, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat64-xp.html
Catalyst 6.3   7000-x1900   March 8, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat63-xp.html
Catalyst 6.2   7000-x1900   February 9, 2006   http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat62-xp.html
Catalyst 6.1   7000-x1800   January 18, 2006   http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat61-xp.html
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 17, 2008, 10:34:52 am
Sweet!!! I will give that a shot tonight and report back.  ATI's website only went down to catalyst 7.4 that I saw.  Thanks for the research.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 17, 2008, 06:14:42 pm
SUCCESS!!  I have all the resolutions now with Catalyst 6.5, thanks!

One question about 321x240 resolution, mine shows up as 59 Hz refresh rate on the monitor OSD instead of 60 (so I get lots of screen tearing).  Is that normal?  Some of my 256 line resolutions actually show up running at 60 Hz!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 17, 2008, 06:25:15 pm
321x240 should be something like 59.4 Hz

some of the 256 line modes are "extended resolution" (16kHz) which is handled by most standard resolution monitors.

use tripplebuffer or vsync to get rid of tearing
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 17, 2008, 07:57:48 pm
SUCCESS!!  I have all the resolutions now with Catalyst 6.5, thanks!

Actually I spoke to soon.  Now my 512x384 is gone!  :banghead:
Any ideas?  Is this something I should try and manually add in usermodes.txt?  Anyone happen to have a modeline?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 18, 2008, 01:01:55 am
Mhm... Maybe it doesn't like the blacklist entry. *sigh*

add to custom25khz.txt:
modeline '513x384@59,959' 14,75 513 520 568 600 384 388 391 410 -hsync -vsync
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 18, 2008, 01:29:49 am
Thanks, getting closer.  It does appears in the list on reboot, but when I start a 512x384 game the screen appears scrambled.  Does that mean the modeline is slightly off?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 18, 2008, 02:02:41 am
Hm... You should check it with QuickRes.
Currently I don't have a MedRes capable monitor ready to test, but it should work.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: BASS! on April 18, 2008, 04:02:12 am
Hello there!
Allrighty, I just went through every resolution I have so far, and I was wondering if you could look this over to see what is my limitation of my setup / hardware. Some resolutions will display allright, some will display zoomed, some display shifted, some garbled completely and some show up in four different sections.

I have a sony pvm-2530 (its native vga res is 640x200 which I set up but does not diplay the full screen. I am also running a nvidia geforce 6600 pcie x16.

240x240 - scrambled
256x240 - good
256x256 - scrambled
256x264 - good but geometry issues (zoomed)
288x240 - screen quadrupled
296x240 - screen quadrupled
304x240 - good
321x240 - good
321x256 - scrambled
336x240 - good
352x256 - scrambled
352x264 - scrambled
352x288 - good but geometry issues (zoomed)
368x240 - good
384x288 - good but geometry issues (zoomed)
392x240 - good
401x256 - good but geometry issues (zoomed)
488x240 - good
512x240 - screen shifted but good
512x288 - good but geometry issues (zoomed)
512x448 - good but geometry issues (shifted)
632x264 - good but geometry issues (zoomed)
640x240 - good
640x288 - good but geometry issues (zoomed)
640x480 - good but screen flicker
720x480 - good but screen flicker
800x600 - good but geometry issues (zoomed)

I do know how to tweak my geometry on this tv, so what should I set it to to make my adjustments, and what do you recomend to replace my resolutions too. I am working on getting rid of the ones that will not display at all. I am happy with only being able to run a couple reses for my games.

1 . oldschool games
2. vector games
3. neogeo / misc mid 80s games
4. newer games / dreamcast
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 18, 2008, 06:05:51 am
hm...
as for the scrambled ones...
well can't help you without having the card in my hands.

as for the geometry problems, yeah, 264 and 288 line modes have other sync widths as 240 line modes, so resize horizontal width and vertical width a bit.

as for the 480 line modes... sure the flicker, they are interlaced :)

Create a Custom15khz.txt and add several remove X,Y lines, for example "remove 240,240" to remove 240x240.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 18, 2008, 07:38:39 am
Hello there!
Allrighty, I just went through every resolution I have so far, and I was wondering if you could look this over to see what is my limitation of my setup / hardware. Some resolutions will display allright, some will display zoomed, some display shifted, some garbled completely and some show up in four different sections.


just generated some new "default" modes, give it a try :)

custom15khz.txt
Code: [Select]
modeline "240x240@60p;15,72kHz" 5.0304 240 256 288 320 240 244 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "256x240@60p;15,72kHz" 5.40768 256 272 312 344 240 244 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "288x240@60p;15,72kHz" 6.03648 288 304 352 384 240 244 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "296x240@60p;15,72kHz" 6.16224 296 312 360 392 240 244 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x240@60p;15,72kHz" 6.66528 320 336 392 424 240 244 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "336x240@60p;15,72kHz" 7.04256 336 352 416 448 240 244 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "368x240@60p;15,72kHz" 7.67136 368 400 424 488 240 244 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "392x240@60p;15,72kHz" 8.1744 392 424 456 520 240 244 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "448x240@60p;15,72kHz" 9.432 448 480 536 600 240 244 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x240@60p;15,72kHz" 10.6896 512 544 616 680 240 244 254 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "640x240@60p;15,72kHz" 13.45632 640 688 760 856 240 244 254 262 -hsync -vsync

modeline "256x256@60p;16,08kHz" 5.53152 256 272 312 344 256 258 264 268 -hsync -vsync
modeline "320x256@60p;16,08kHz" 6.81792 320 336 392 424 256 258 264 268 -hsync -vsync
modeline "352x256@60p;16,08kHz" 7.58976 352 384 408 472 256 258 264 268 -hsync -vsync

modeline "256x264@58p;15,776kHz" 5.426944 256 272 312 344 264 265 270 272 -hsync -vsync
modeline "352x264@57p;15,789kHz" 7.452408 352 384 408 472 264 266 273 277 -hsync -vsync
modeline "632x264@57p;15,789kHz" 13.26276 632 680 744 840 264 266 273 277 -hsync -vsync

modeline "400x256@53p;15,794kHz" 8.465584 400 432 472 536 256 263 284 298 -hsync -vsync

modeline "352x288@51p;15,759kHz" 7.438248 352 384 408 472 288 292 301 309 -hsync -vsync
modeline "384x288@51p;15,759kHz" 8.068608 384 416 448 512 288 292 301 309 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x288@51p;15,759kHz" 10.71612 512 544 616 680 288 292 301 309 -hsync -vsync
modeline "640x288@51p;15,759kHz" 13.4897 640 688 760 856 288 292 301 309 -hsync -vsync
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Constructacon on April 18, 2008, 08:45:24 am
 :badmood:

Ok. n00b time.

I'm trying to set up my system at the moment but am having difficulties. My set up is:

AMD Athlon chipset
ATI 9600 series video card (Catalyst 8.4 drivers)
Windows XP
Teac CT-M711S. VGA -> SCART
(I think that's all you need for now)

I installed Soft-15KHz and Quickres. Because neither came with documentation on how to use them (I'm not having a go at you SailorSat, but it may help those with a lesser knowledge) I think I may have selected a wrong setting. I did install the 15KHz settings and have done several reboots. I think I may have accidentally chosen a setting that manages to be both incompatible with my monitor and my TV. After windows boots (everything visible) I get an "Out of Frequency" error box which I understand this to mean that the software is working. However, once I plug the TV in I get nothing - just black. I know it was working before because I was getting doubling of the post screens (this hasn't caused it any damage has it?).

Now, after reading all 14 pages of this thread I think I understand where I went wrong (I hope). I tried to boot in safe mode which worked fine, but couldn't find where Soft-15K was installed or Quickres to uninstall them or turn them off. Can anyone help me out of my mess to try and start over?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 18, 2008, 09:26:27 am
Where did you get your VGA to SCART cable? Did you wire it yourself?
If you see absolutely nothing then your wiring may be wrong.

As for installation directory...
Soft-15kHz doesn't install anywhere except the folder where you run it from. (thats also where it places the registry backup)
If you ran from the zip file without extracting it, the backup is most likely placed in the windows temp dir (which may be anywhere). In that case just download the zip again and run it from there again.

(Note to myself: check application path for *TEMP*)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 18, 2008, 05:12:20 pm
Hm... You should check it with QuickRes.
Currently I don't have a MedRes capable monitor ready to test, but it should work.

I tried it again and it's showing 37.8khz on the OSD when I select it!  Are you sure the modeline is good?  I wish I understood those lines better.  Is there a good tool out there to generating these things?  I tried the XFree86 one but I can never get it to take a resolution like 513x384 (it always changes it back to 512).

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 18, 2008, 05:19:53 pm
actually... the only way to test them would be a good old pentium2 400mhz, and DOS advance mame
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 18, 2008, 05:24:51 pm
OK this one is VERY close and runs at 24.6khz:
Modeline "513x384@60" 15,38 513 544 600 632 384 392 396 404 -hsync -vsync

Everything looks great, except the very top is cut off a little bit.  I guess I'll keep experimenting. Thx

EDIT: Modeline "513x384@60" 15,50 513 544 600 632 384 393 399 410 -hsync -vsync
seems to work (completely pulled out of ---my bottom--- LOL)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 18, 2008, 06:26:07 pm
A couple of very useful modelines for people with multisyncs:

Modeline "432x324@60" 13.4 432 440 496 536 324 326 330 351 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "416x312@60" 13 416 424 480 520 312 314 318 338 -hsync -vsync

EGA/25khz at 70 Hz!  I hope I'm not damaging my Betson with those.

This let's you play those newer pesky vertical shmups like Don Pachi with a pixel perfect full screen!
I love this software!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Constructacon on April 18, 2008, 07:15:18 pm
 :banghead: I found the source of my problems - I had forgotten to reconnect the power component of my SCART lead as it was causing another problem elsewhere. After fixing the first problem I hooked it up and presto! Windows on my TV. :applaud: MALA Front end + MAME on my TV. Windows doesn't like displaying after I exit the frontend.

The next problem is that the picture is now scrolling vertically (lined up - not doubled when booting). I think this is a V-Hold issue. Would this be the case? I can't seem to find an adjustment for it on the tv externally though. Anyone with any suggestions on how to fix either problem? ???
(http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/4374/mame489bqy9.th.jpg) (http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mame489bqy9.jpg)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on April 18, 2008, 08:40:53 pm

EDIT: Modeline "513x384@60" 15,50 513 544 600 632 384 393 399 410 -hsync -vsync
seems to work (completely pulled out of ---my bottom--- LOL)

Where does this '513' come from? I've always seen 512.


A couple of very useful modelines for people with multisyncs:

Modeline "432x324@60" 13.4 432 440 496 536 324 326 330 351 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "416x312@60" 13 416 424 480 520 312 314 318 338 -hsync -vsync

EGA/25khz at 70 Hz!  I hope I'm not damaging my Betson with those.

This let's you play those newer pesky vertical shmups like Don Pachi with a pixel perfect full screen!
I love this software!

 Advancemame does this automatically (400x320 in the case of Strikers) - but for mame I've thought about doing this, as Strikers1945 is one such game.


actually... the only way to test them would be a good old pentium2 400mhz, and DOS advance mame

I've actually been doing this with a 266mhz, but cards can be more problematic with older versions, and even just different games in them.




The next problem is that the picture is now scrolling vertically (lined up - not doubled when booting). I think this is a V-Hold issue. Would this be the case? I can't seem to find an adjustment for it on the tv externally though. Anyone with any suggestions on how to fix either problem? ???


Look for a service menu.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Constructacon on April 18, 2008, 11:22:18 pm
Ok Windows is now displaying. It was fixed by setting desktop resolution to 640x480 before running soft-15KHz. V-Hold is still an issue.
Quote from: Ummon
Look for a service menu.
I've looked but can't seem to find one. Without RGB signal comming in through the SCART all on screen displays (channels etc) are showing up fine with no scrolling. Is there another setting of Soft-15KHz that I need to look at to fix this or does it sound like a TV issue?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 19, 2008, 06:28:26 am
Ok Windows is now displaying. It was fixed by setting desktop resolution to 640x480 before running soft-15KHz. V-Hold is still an issue.

Make sure both VGA Pin 13 and Pin 14 are connected to SCART Pin 20.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Constructacon on April 19, 2008, 07:17:47 am
Is that right? There's no mention of pin 14 on instructions to make a VGA->SCART cable in this (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=77370.0) thread.

I do agree though agree - it makes sense. VGA pin 13 is HSync and 14 is VSync. So combining them to SCART pin 20 (CSync) makes sense. But if so, why is it not mentioned in the thread AND in the wiki?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 19, 2008, 07:26:44 am
Because the original source for this pinout uses an ATI card which is switched to composite sync.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Constructacon on April 19, 2008, 09:05:13 am
So my ATI card isn't then (Radeon 9600)? Which ones are?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: styxx on April 19, 2008, 03:14:34 pm
Anyone tried the x300 or x700 radeon?

This may be stupid, but here goes... ;D

The VGA-SCART homemade cable( http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=9365 ) works with any PAL 50hz Scart TV or do you need a RGB Scart input TV with 50/60 Hz.

 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 19, 2008, 03:27:32 pm
So my ATI card isn't then (Radeon 9600)? Which ones are?
Just connect Pin 13 and 14 together.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Constructacon on April 19, 2008, 05:05:39 pm
I was just waiting for morning to do it as it was too late at night for me.

Problem solved.  :cheers: Thanks SailorSat. Now to start playing.......
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on April 23, 2008, 01:50:30 am
Okay, on my PII with win98, I used a Radeon 7000. Drivers loaded fine. Soft15 modes load, but after restart, they aren't available. And I can't test them from Windows, because QuickRes is XP only.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 23, 2008, 08:08:04 am
Huh?
QuickRes should run fine in 98 too.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on April 23, 2008, 11:30:33 am
has anyone tried the radeon HD series yet?

I think I am going to return my sapphire x1650 pro 512MB out of the box stock it runs for maybe ten minutes and overheats so i bought a zaleman vf-9000 vga cooling kit wich is one of the best and it still overheats on hard core gaming and it just is not right so I would suggest staying away from those branded cards they run way to hot on their own.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 23, 2008, 01:28:54 pm
I doubt any of the HD radeon will work perfectly, however, the HD 2400 pro does work with a pixelclock of 7.12 or higher (see tested cards for modelines).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on April 24, 2008, 02:07:15 pm
has anyone tried the radeon HD series yet?

I think I am going to return my sapphire x1650 pro 512MB out of the box stock it runs for maybe ten minutes and overheats so i bought a zaleman vf-9000 vga cooling kit wich is one of the best and it still overheats on hard core gaming and it just is not right so I would suggest staying away from those branded cards they run way to hot on their own.

You did get a capable power supply, right?


Huh?
QuickRes should run fine in 98 too.

No. I checked at Ultimarc. Says XP only. And I tried it just to see.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 24, 2008, 02:09:26 pm
Yeah but the Ultimarcs Quickres is NOT the same as the one with soft-15khz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on April 24, 2008, 02:25:40 pm
has anyone tried the radeon HD series yet?

I think I am going to return my sapphire x1650 pro 512MB out of the box stock it runs for maybe ten minutes and overheats so i bought a zaleman vf-9000 vga cooling kit wich is one of the best and it still overheats on hard core gaming and it just is not right so I would suggest staying away from those branded cards they run way to hot on their own.

You did get a capable power supply, right?


Huh?
QuickRes should run fine in 98 too.

No. I checked at Ultimarc. Says XP only. And I tried it just to see.

I am running a Diablo 550w black chrome ATX switching power supply and it runs 20amp on the 12volt line

I was using a 400watt 16amp 12volt line thinkingit may have been the problem but they both do the same and the diablo 550watt should be more then enough right?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on April 24, 2008, 03:40:36 pm
SailorSat:

Can Soft15kHz be used to add low resolutions and somehow forcing the video card to double them?
This is similar to the 320x240 resolution most cards support which is then doubled to 640x480.
This is the subject of my recent post:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=79447.0 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=79447.0)

The application would be for TV-out usage.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 24, 2008, 04:00:02 pm
Should work with any modeline if you add the "doublescan" parameter, however don't forget to also double pixel clock (the dotted value).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 24, 2008, 04:48:16 pm
Here's a nice post with some useful modelines (including some linedoubled ones):
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=70233.msg720043#msg720043

For example:

device_video_modeline pc_31.5_320x240 12.5876 320 328 376 400 240 245 246 262 -hsync -vsync doublescan

Just change to

modeline '320x240@60' 12,5876 320 328 376 400 240 245 246 262 -hsync -vsync doublescan

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on April 24, 2008, 05:36:46 pm
Thank you.
I will give it a try.
This communicty is such a resource.
Whenever I'm on the verge of quitting finishing this project (due mostly to small budget) someone comes through with an answer.
 :cheers:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on April 24, 2008, 05:50:40 pm
I doubt any of the HD radeon will work perfectly, however, the HD 2400 pro does work with a pixelclock of 7.12 or higher (see tested cards for modelines).

I dont understand what you mean.

in order for a HD 2400 pro to work the card itself has to have a pixel clock of 7.12 or higher built on the card itself?

or is the pixelclock something in with the soft15K software that it needs in order for it to work?

will it still be able to run all the soft15K res's like it normaly does or does it loose some?

what is the strongest nvidia card that works with the all of the stock soft15k res's?

I am asking becuase when I run older pc games they run fine but when i play company of heroes, scarface, resisdent evil 4 stuff around that time era after 10 minutes to a half hour the screen goes black and most the time the psu shuts down and resets the pc.

I have aftermarket cooling on everything with arctic silver 5 and such and I cannot seem to get anything over 54 on the ATI tool temp under 100% load.

I am using a new 550watt psu with a x1650 pro so I dont know why it is doing this becuase it should have enough to run the games no problem according to their system requirement specs on the box's.

only thing I can think of is the card cannot handle them but it does play them for a short time and then cuts out  :dunno





Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 24, 2008, 05:56:04 pm
It means that only modelines with a Pixelclock of 7.12MHz or higher will work.

Code: [Select]
;Remove some "too low" resolutions
remove 240x240
remove 256x240
remove 256x256
remove 256x264
remove 321x256

;ReAdd some "low" resolutions with higher pclock and (way) larger sync width
modeline '288x240@59.885' 7.12 288 332 392 448 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240@59.941' 7.12 296 338 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '304x240@59.305' 7.12 304 344 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '321x240@59.014' 7.12 321 350 392 448 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '336x240@59.749' 7.12 336 356 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on April 24, 2008, 06:13:50 pm
ahh I undertand after I looked at the tested cards section you mentioned prior.

I am running the sapphire x1650 pro agp version and it is the same as your pci version and it to needed the pickelclock of 7.12Mhz or higher.

so if I got the HD2400 I would get the same results as now with the same setting I am currently using but have a better card right?

is there a nvidia that is better then the HD2400 that works?

I dont know to much about nvidia's I alway's been an ATI fan.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 24, 2008, 06:16:06 pm
The X1650 is better than a HD2400, at least 3D wise.

The "biggest" GeForce supported would be a GeForce 7950 GT or GX2 (if you got the money *lol*)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on April 24, 2008, 07:35:51 pm
I found this chart for newer card benchmarks.

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/graphics-cards/3dmark06-v1-0-2-hdr-sm3-0-score,538.html

according to this chart it looks like the ATI X1950 XT is the strongest way to go until you hit running SLI but on the chart it even beats the geforce 7900GT wich is pretty much the same as the 7950GT but unless there running double then there below the X1950 XT.

anyone running a X1950 XT yet and if so what type of PSU strengh you using?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on April 25, 2008, 10:54:40 am
I tried this modeline with Soft15kHz but it did not quite work:
modeline '384x224@60' 15.1051 384 392 448 480 224 229 230 245 -hsync -vsync doublescan

I tried two ways, with the 31kHz butoon and with the User Modes button and using the appropriately name .txt file in both cases.
This caused the video driver to "dissappear" so that I could not even start MAME but was getting a DDraw error isntead. 

Assuming the above is an error of mine somehow, I did notice that Soft15kHz appended the resolution to DALNonStandardModesBCD in the registry as:
03 84 02 24 00 00 01 28
So basically, 384x224@128Hz.
Is this what doublescan does for you?

I uninstalled Soft15Khz and restored the drivers.  I then added the resolution to that registry key manually as shown above but MAME would not see it either through the MAME32 GUI or by forcing it in the command line as either 384x224@128 or 384x224@60.

My questions then are as follows:
1. Does doublescan simply add the resolution at twice the vertical refresh rate?
2. Are the standard 320x240 resolution from the video card done in this fashion (the are called at 60Hz through 85Hz and not at 128Hz)?  Note that this type of resolution is what I am tryng to accomplish but with different values like 384x224.
3. Is DALNonStandardModesBCD the only change Soft15kHz make?  Please let me know what else Soft15kHz does on ATI cards so that I try and play with it some more.

Thank you for your time.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: chairhome on April 25, 2008, 12:52:41 pm
Okay, so I'm converting an old arcade to a MAME machine and I wanted to know, are there any disadvantages with going with Soft 15khz rather than AVGA?  Another member here (who has posted on this thread) is selling his 7950gt that he's tested with Soft 15khz, and I just wanted to know if there's any cons with not using the AVGA.  Sorry if this has been answered already.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 25, 2008, 01:26:50 pm
DALNonStandardModesBCD in the registry as:
03 84 02 24 00 00 01 28
So basically, 384x224@128Hz.

I'll take a look into it.
It should add the resolution with 60Hz as normaly but with twice the visible lines (hence doublescanned).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on April 25, 2008, 03:13:50 pm
Thanks.
I did not mean to create extra work for you.
If there is anything you would like me to do to rule out potential user error, let me know and I will try when I get home.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on April 25, 2008, 03:14:57 pm
Where in the registry (if at all) would it be reflected that the resolution is to be displayed double scanned?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 25, 2008, 03:46:02 pm
In the DALR6_CRTxxxXyyyXzzz String.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on April 25, 2008, 03:57:29 pm
Very well, then.
I'll fiddle with it tonight.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on April 26, 2008, 09:56:26 pm
Quote
In the DALR6_CRTxxxXyyyXzzz String

Hmm.  I could not find anything like that in the registry.
I wonder if I'm looking in the right place.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on April 29, 2008, 09:00:59 am
I found the key.
I got the doublescanned resoutions to work using the cutom31kHz.txt method.
However, I don't think doublescan works as intended in ATI drivers (the drivers fault, I'm sure).  When I managed to get MAME to use 384x224 doublescan, the monitor was reporting 64Hz vertical refresh rate as it should but the whole image was squashed into the top half of the display.  The bottom half was just black.
When I use one of the built-in low resolutions (presumably doublescanned) like 320x240, this does not happen. 
I still hope to find a way to re-create and modify those built-in resolutions.

Any ideas?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 29, 2008, 01:44:55 pm
Hm... Try removing the "detailed" mode definitions (DAL CRT384x224x60 etc.,) from the registry.
That MAY work, at least it does on NVidia cards.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on April 29, 2008, 01:59:21 pm
Will do tonight.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on April 29, 2008, 05:51:30 pm
Yeah but the Ultimarcs Quickres is NOT the same as the one with soft-15khz.

Okay, I picked up yours and sure enough it show only vga modes, despite soft15 showing the modes loaded. Maybe I should give up on win98?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on April 29, 2008, 10:59:37 pm
Removing the detailed modes you described did not help.  I wouls still get the image limited to the upper half of the screen.  I played with three different keys besides DALxxxNonStandardModes.  One of them when removed, causes the resolution not to appear.  The others, did not have an effect.
 :cry:

If you think of something else, please let me know.
It looks like I'm running out of options and might have settle for D3D but I'm always compelled to try something else.  It is hard to settle for a compromise.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 29, 2008, 11:03:56 pm
Hm... Too bad.
But you're right, ATI ignores the doublescan flag for now.
Need to fool around with it again :(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on April 30, 2008, 09:32:50 am
Thanks SailorSat.

I appreciate all the advise you gave me.
I'm sure there is not a lot of people trying to do this.
However, it was a good idea in principle.
Being able to use the exact resolution (doublescanned) as the original game through TV-out, would allow to fill the entire screen and avoid hardware stretch and D3D.
I found D3D to be a better alternative than hardware stretch.  Hardware stretch does not modify the image much but makes it look blurry.  D3D on the other hand alters the graphics a bit in the sense that if you have a "staircase" progression of pixels in an image (e.g. the swords in samsho2), D3D adds a few odd steps to make the scaling possible.  However, the resulting image, even though altered from the original, still looks sharp.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on April 30, 2008, 11:05:56 am
Hi I sent my X1650 pro back becuase it was having heat issue's.

so I decided to up the stakes and went with a X1950 pro 512MB AGP version.

this card is as good as it gets for AGP and direct X9.0c  however they do have a radeon HD3850 AGP released recently that does direct X10.1

I asked prior about the HD series and was wondering if they would work and if not is it becuase of the direct x10 that made them imcompatable with soft15K?

my other question is the X1650 I used required a few modes to help it display some of the lower res's better.

I am sure this new x1950 pro that is on the way will need the same type of set-up but I was wondering if it will work still if I use the same 15K mode file that I was using with the x1650 pro?

 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on April 30, 2008, 05:50:54 pm
Hi I sent my X1650 pro back becuase it was having heat issue's.

so I decided to up the stakes and went with a X1950 pro 512MB AGP version.

this card is as good as it gets for AGP and direct X9.0c  however they do have a radeon HD3850 AGP released recently that does direct X10.1

I asked prior about the HD series and was wondering if they would work and if not is it becuase of the direct x10 that made them imcompatable with soft15K?

my other question is the X1650 I used required a few modes to help it display some of the lower res's better.

I am sure this new x1950 pro that is on the way will need the same type of set-up but I was wondering if it will work still if I use the same 15K mode file that I was using with the x1650 pro?

 

Heheheh. You'll find out.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on April 30, 2008, 08:09:13 pm
Hi I sent my X1650 pro back becuase it was having heat issue's.

so I decided to up the stakes and went with a X1950 pro 512MB AGP version.

this card is as good as it gets for AGP and direct X9.0c  however they do have a radeon HD3850 AGP released recently that does direct X10.1

I asked prior about the HD series and was wondering if they would work and if not is it becuase of the direct x10 that made them imcompatable with soft15K?

my other question is the X1650 I used required a few modes to help it display some of the lower res's better.

I am sure this new x1950 pro that is on the way will need the same type of set-up but I was wondering if it will work still if I use the same 15K mode file that I was using with the x1650 pro?

 

Heheheh. You'll find out.

that dont tell me much  :applaud:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on May 01, 2008, 03:28:13 pm
I'm glad to report that the PNY Nvidia 7600 GS (PCI-E) works flawlessly with Soft 15khz!!  No need for custom modes, all the defaults work perfect!!  I'm glad I got rid of that X1550... what a piece! ;)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 02, 2008, 08:16:17 pm
You know, I'm wondering if various brands' hardware differences might not be a factor here?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: brandon on May 02, 2008, 09:15:21 pm
You know, I'm wondering if various brands' hardware differences might not be a factor here?
Its very possible..  I'm not an expert on such things but perhaps they stray from the Nvidia/ATI reference designs or the cards have a different firmware... ???   I'm just glad I got mine straightened out!  now.. If I could just get my favorite games running at their proper refresh rate (ie NOT 50hz) I'll be in pure gaming heaven :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 03, 2008, 01:23:14 am
You know, I'm wondering if various brands' hardware differences might not be a factor here?

Rather unlikely.
Most "differences" should be memory size and type, and maybe the default clock speeds.
As the drivers are the same on every hardware I guess it shouldn't make any difference at all.


If I could just get my favorite games running at their proper refresh rate (ie NOT 50hz) I'll be in pure gaming heaven :)
Run them the way they are meant to run, i.e. run pacman in vertical :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on May 03, 2008, 10:16:40 am
You know, I'm wondering if various brands' hardware differences might not be a factor here?

Rather unlikely.
Most "differences" should be memory size and type, and maybe the default clock speeds.
As the drivers are the same on every hardware I guess it shouldn't make any difference at all.


If I could just get my favorite games running at their proper refresh rate (ie NOT 50hz) I'll be in pure gaming heaven :)
Run them the way they are meant to run, i.e. run pacman in vertical :)

use this tool to auto configure the games res's and use the same mame settings as if you were using a arcadevga.

http://www.ultimarc.com/avres.zip


EDIT UPDATE:

got my X1950 pro in today on the 5th.

have not tried it yet but I can already tell it is going to make a major difference becuase it is almost littery twice the size of the x1650 pro.

it is longer then my motherboard is wide wich I was amazed by I had never seen any card as large as this beast is.

also on the X1650 there were 4 ram chips on top and 4 on the bootom and with this X1950 pro all 8 chips are wrapped around the GPU in a circular shape wich is the perfect layout for my new zalman VF900-CU GPU cooling kit.

I will update soon as I get everything hooked back up and tried out.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on May 06, 2008, 03:20:01 pm
sapphire X1950 pro 512MB ddr3 AGP running stock catalyst 7.3 drivers confirmed working great.

after swapping out the X1650 pro for this X1950 was a little different when first ran.

mamewah would crash on exit and I looked into the log and it stated error 5 cannot run 640X480 @ 72Hrz 16 Bit so I changed the resolution from 16 bit back to 32-bit becuase I forgot to on the intail install.

once I rebooted with it changed to 32-bit color it ran perfect again.

I am using a DVI to vga converter so they do indeed work like that with soft15K

for some reason it only displays the soft15K correctl on the seconday display slot on the AGP card for some reason it would not get any video on the primary port.

and with it running stock vga without soft15K it was vice versa with the ports where vga would only work in the primamry port :dunno

I tried catalyst 8.3 & 8.4 and so far there a no go when I try to install them it states their is no hardware found that supports it but I was running them on my X1650 pro so I am a little confused but I also heard that the X1950 pro have their own special drivers apart from all other  Xseries I dunno how true that is until I check into it for sure though.

card also run 7 degree's cooler then the x1650 pro on the ATI tool temp software.

I cannot get the AGP hotter then 48 on a 100% CPU load.

The psu upgrade also helped the temps and actually dropped my CPU temps 12 degrees more overall  :o

if anyone is going to run one of these cards make sure you have a very powerfull named brand power supply these take two power molex off the PSU and are a very power hungry card.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 06, 2008, 04:18:14 pm
I am using a DVI to vga converter so they do indeed work like that with soft15K

Of course it does. There's nothing electronic about those.


Quote
for some reason it only displays the soft15K correctl on the seconday display slot on the AGP card for some reason it would not get any video on the primary port.

and with it running stock vga without soft15K it was vice versa with the ports where vga would only work in the primamry port :dunno

You might need to mess around in the ATI control panel.


@SS: it occured to me to wonder whether these mobos that have Nvidia integrated graphics - for example, 6100-based - would work with Soft15 and have the same capabilities as external adapters?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 06, 2008, 04:24:21 pm
sapphire X1950 pro 512MB ddr3 AGP running stock catalyst 7.3 drivers confirmed working great.

I tried catalyst 8.3 & 8.4 and so far there a no go when I try to install them it states their is no hardware found that supports it but I was running them on my X1650 pro so I am a little confused but I also heard that the X1950 pro have their own special drivers apart from all other  Xseries I dunno how true that is until I check into it for sure though.
Haven't played with the catalyst 8 series yet.



for some reason it only displays the soft15K correctl on the seconday display slot on the AGP card for some reason it would not get any video on the primary port.

and with it running stock vga without soft15K it was vice versa with the ports where vga would only work in the primamry port :dunno
Soft15kHz enforces detection of both VGA Heads, thats why it may change port priorities with it installed.



@SS: it occured to me to wonder whether these mobos that have Nvidia integrated graphics - for example, 6100-based - would work with Soft15 and have the same capabilities as external adapters?
They should work fine.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 06, 2008, 05:23:01 pm
Soft15kHz enforces detection of both VGA Heads, thats why it may change port priorities with it installed.

Oh, right, I wondered about that.



@SS: it occured to me to wonder whether these mobos that have Nvidia integrated graphics - for example, 6100-based - would work with Soft15 and have the same capabilities as external adapters?
They should work fine.
[/quote]

Be interesting to find out, in case anybody out there has one and could test?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on May 06, 2008, 06:08:02 pm
The only reason I had mentioned the DVi to VGA converter is becuase in the begining it was stated that it was unclear if they would work that way or not so if that still puzzled or worried anyone else I wanted to post it does work fine.

I also now am running catalyst Version 8.4 and confirm it works good on this X1950 pro.

at first when I tried them without the actuall ati disk it stated the hardware was not compatible.

I needed drivers so I used the disk with the origanal catalyst 7.3 installed it and it went ok but still was a little goofy but after installed it I ran the same 8.4 drivers and this time it worked withut a hitch and was good to go.

no problem with anything I throw at it now.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: GaijinPunch on May 12, 2008, 02:17:25 am
As I am so far out of the hardware scene it is sickening, can someone recommend a good (AGP preferrably) card with VGA out but the "small" kind that will fit in slim PC case?  Trying to regain some real estate.  I have no real preference of ATI or NVidia.  Most searches turn up the smaller cards but with DVI only.  Might have to go used.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on May 12, 2008, 12:54:02 pm
mine is duel dvi with s-video so I use a dvi to vga adaptor.

it can be seen in this picture

http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/pc-x1950pro-scs3/tul_x1950pro_scs3_bundle_sm.jpg
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 12, 2008, 03:54:48 pm
As I am so far out of the hardware scene it is sickening, can someone recommend a good (AGP preferrably) card with VGA out but the "small" kind that will fit in slim PC case?  Trying to regain some real estate.  I have no real preference of ATI or NVidia.  Most searches turn up the smaller cards but with DVI only.  Might have to go used.

You should go used anyway. Tons of decent, and newer, stuff on ebay if you look. However, small form factor cards I think are hard to come by in general. Not much call for them. Still, look.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: GaijinPunch on May 12, 2008, 07:19:06 pm
You should go used anyway. Tons of decent, and newer, stuff on ebay if you look. However, small form factor cards I think are hard to come by in general. Not much call for them. Still, look.

Will do.  Thanks for the tip.  One question though... if I get one with DVI out, should I be able to use a DVI/VGA converter, then connect my VGA cable to my arcade monitor?  I guess the short way to say it, will the DVI out cock up the signal at all?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on May 12, 2008, 11:33:17 pm
no everything is fine with the adaptor display wise.

if your monitor is vga hook-up then it is fine it if is red green blue ground H and V wire then you would need a vga breakout cable.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: GaijinPunch on May 13, 2008, 12:22:43 am
It's a Japanese arcade monitor (DSUB15) although I mainly use a converter w/ a female JPN21 RGB connector on the other end so I can hook up my supergun and PC to it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on May 13, 2008, 11:48:20 pm
I run a japanese nanao MS8-26SU
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on May 14, 2008, 01:17:12 pm
Can someone with an arcade monitor running 15khz test frogger in mame 125 and verify if this a problem for them as well

Game seems to be zoomed in. I tested with 122 and all is fine running at 224x264. I think its a bug in MAME



Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on May 14, 2008, 01:19:04 pm
Can someone with an arcade monitor running 15khz test frogger in mame 125 and verify if this a problem for them as well

Game seems to be zoomed in. I tested with 122 and all is fine running at 224x264. I think its a bug in MAME

Try running it at 352x256.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 14, 2008, 03:43:18 pm


Try running it at 352x256.

Yeah. Shoulda been I'd think in both cases.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on May 14, 2008, 06:35:27 pm
Yea I made a typo, I was running it t 352x256. Can you test it with mame 125 and see what you get
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on May 14, 2008, 10:34:30 pm
Yes, Frogger in MAME 0.125 is screwed up (it lists the resolution as 224x768 now).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 15, 2008, 02:37:22 am
Yes, Frogger in MAME 0.125 is screwed up (it lists the resolution as 224x768 now).

What lists it as that? (Yeah, funky here, too.)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on May 15, 2008, 08:08:55 am
I tried to sign up at http://mametesters.org/mantis/main_page.php. to report it, but I wasnt able to create an account that let me login.
If anyone has an account please report to the mame team.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on May 15, 2008, 10:41:04 am
What lists it as that? (Yeah, funky here, too.)

mame -listxml frogger

I tried to sign up at http://mametesters.org/mantis/main_page.php. to report it, but I wasnt able to create an account that let me login.
If anyone has an account please report to the mame team.

I already reported it and they closed it saying it was supposed to be that way now LOL.
So I guess I'll be staying with 0.124 now.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 15, 2008, 11:16:51 am
looks like another addition to my cabmame TODO list ^^
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on May 15, 2008, 02:05:45 pm
WTF

How is it supposed to be that way?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on May 15, 2008, 02:53:40 pm
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=151831&page=0
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on May 15, 2008, 03:03:59 pm
Ok

So what resolution are we supposed to run it at?

I hope AG has the answer
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on May 15, 2008, 03:33:33 pm
1024x768 at a minimum I would assume.
I believe this affects much more than just Frogger BTW as it's part of the galaxian driver.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on May 15, 2008, 09:00:25 pm
Would it matter in making a custom rez like 224x768?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 16, 2008, 02:20:41 am
Well... If you play it vertical, it doesn't matter, as you can create a resolution like 768x240.

However to play it horizontal, you'll have to cheat.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 16, 2008, 02:57:06 am
A quick'n'dirty cheat to 0.125 ->

commandline...
http://files.arianchen.de/tmp_cabmame.rar

UI...
http://files.arianchen.de/tmp_cabmameui.rar


However you still need to specify a screen mode (352x256 or something like that), as it would select 1024x768 by itself.


P.S. Galaxian looks... err... yeah I don't know if the starfield is right now, but at least it looks pretty interesting.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: chairhome on May 16, 2008, 09:04:44 am
Okay, I'm going to ask some really noobie questions, so I apologize in advance.

Just got my J-PAC hooked up, this is my first MAME cabinet setup.  When I install Soft15khz, do I need to do anything else?  Like specify to use it in my front-end or anything?  Or do I just install, reboot, and run my front-end?  Is the regular version of MAME okay, or do I need to use a modded version, like advmame?

Just wondering cause my screen was not synced correctly when it came up... but I figured out it was because I need to set some jumpers on the J-PAC.  Do I just set jumpers for 15khz, too?

Sorry again, but thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on May 16, 2008, 09:52:08 am
Sailor

One other thing I noticed when upgrading from mame 122 to mame 125 is theres no more sound stuttering. I didnt need to use your soundsync hacks. Why is that?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 16, 2008, 09:59:32 am
Okay, I'm going to ask some really noobie questions, so I apologize in advance.
That's okay :) Some time is always the first time .)


Just got my J-PAC hooked up, this is my first MAME cabinet setup.  When I install Soft15khz, do I need to do anything else?  Like specify to use it in my front-end or anything?  Or do I just install, reboot, and run my front-end?  Is the regular version of MAME okay, or do I need to use a modded version, like advmame?
You only need to install Soft-15kHz once, then reboot.
After that, you can use the system just as before.
You don't need to change anything.


Just wondering cause my screen was not synced correctly when it came up... but I figured out it was because I need to set some jumpers on the J-PAC.  Do I just set jumpers for 15khz, too?
Yeah, 15kHz Jumper on, others off should do it.

If everything is OK the two SYNC Leds on the J-PAC should light up.


One other thing I noticed when upgrading from mame 122 to mame 125 is theres no more sound stuttering. I didnt need to use your soundsync hacks. Why is that?
Don't know. Maybe someone supplied a generic patch to MAME.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: chairhome on May 16, 2008, 10:04:33 am
Thanks, SailorSat, really appreciate it!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on May 16, 2008, 10:10:08 am
A quick'n'dirty cheat to 0.125 ->

THANK YOU!!!!!   :notworthy:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on May 16, 2008, 10:24:58 am
Will you be releaseing  a diff file to hack the frogger/galaxian rez?

Thanks for your great work BTW
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 16, 2008, 10:28:49 am
IF you are satisfied with it, i can provide that hack as standalone diff :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 16, 2008, 05:16:27 pm
This is getting really funny. Seems like the devs are starting to actively thwart native res support or something. Which could be good, cos then there will be other builds that cater to us. Someone may even pick up Advancemame, or create something similar.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 16, 2008, 05:20:46 pm
Scrap AdvanceMAME, it's simple not worth trying to update it with all those changes since 0.106
More like would be a patch to SDLMAME so use SVGALIB to create it's modes.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 17, 2008, 01:22:59 am
Scrap AdvanceMAME, it's simple not worth trying to update it with all those changes since 0.106
More like would be a patch to SDLMAME so use SVGALIB to create it's modes.

That might fall into the category of something similar, etc. I'm quite fine with .104, but am all for a newer version if possible. Besides, having to compile something just to use it is so lame.

Now, a more thread-relevant question: I installed soft-15 on a matrox G550, the OS is XP. The matrox drivers seemed to load fine. Soft15 modes loaded. However, after restart, they aren't available.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 17, 2008, 01:34:47 am
Does it at least output 640x480 in 15kHz?

Guess you just hit the Matrox drivers "Pixel Clock Limit".
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: chairhome on May 17, 2008, 01:38:42 am
So, I was going to put a jumper on the J-PAC to set it to 15khz... but I don't know which jumper setting it is.  I can't seem to find a list of jumper settings anywhere... it says to look on the J-PAC, but it doesn't say which position to put it in.  Sorry again... can anyone tell me where to put the jumper?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 17, 2008, 02:30:55 am
http://www.ultimarc.com/images/jpachi.jpg

The jumpers should be self explaining.
(Although you can ignore the USB/PS2 etc. jumpers, they are gone on newer models).

The lowest one is to "enable" 15kHz, the center one is to enable 25kHz and the topmost is for 31kHz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: chairhome on May 17, 2008, 10:42:29 am
Thanks... I'm an idiot.  I was looking at the area on the left and going to put jumpers on there.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 19, 2008, 12:28:25 am
Does it at least output 640x480 in 15kHz?

Guess you just hit the Matrox drivers "Pixel Clock Limit".

I dunno. Possibly. I thought Matrox were supposed to be hot ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. Maybe just the 350 and 450? I took the card out of that system, but I'll have to sometime try interlace on it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on May 19, 2008, 05:18:59 am
Hi SailorSat,
I don't know if it was already asked, but I want to ask you if  there is any way to use this piece of software with an ArcadeVGA.

It would be fantastic to have this option to add custom resolutions, like a 50Hz Amiga resolution.

Thx anyway for you great work.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 19, 2008, 11:33:59 am
Nope, doesn't work with the AVGA (yet).
However, for AMIGA PAL just use 800x600 :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on May 19, 2008, 03:39:24 pm
Right, but I think that the non interlaced 640 x 288 @50Hz (that Soft-15KHz has) it's far away better :)
800x600 it's horrible to see on a 15Khz monitor (and eye killer)  :-\

doesn't work with the AVGA (yet).
So are you planning to introduce ArcadeVGA support in next releases? It would be fantastic! THE solution for all monitor resolution relative issues :notworthy:

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on May 19, 2008, 03:43:18 pm
Double post, sry...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 19, 2008, 04:50:24 pm
Depends on the monitor :)
Interlace looks nice on my hantarex polo...

Whatever...
Once I figure out how the f*ck the ArcadeVGA driver differs from the normal (it's actually a catalyst 6.1)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on May 20, 2008, 06:29:35 am
I think you can ask informations in Ultimarc. I think they would sell more ArcadeVGA cards with Soft-15KHz support.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 20, 2008, 05:42:17 pm
I dunno about that. I've asked Andy about supporting a second set of resolutions - high refresh resolutions like SS has provided - and he said that was beyond the basic design principle.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ninja-chicken on May 21, 2008, 04:11:52 am
I used soft 15 and set my nVidia GeForce 8500GT to display 15kHz and it worked pretty well. I still get a kinda red blur around everything though.

My questions are:

1) What's with the red blur :P
2) Is there any way I can get this to work with DOS at all?

Cheers
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 22, 2008, 09:41:01 pm
The red could be a fault in your card - or it can't totally handle 15khz. Try another card; try another monitor with that card, if you can. As for dos, there are other things you have to worry about long before video display. You might look into an optimized linux.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: moloch on May 23, 2008, 01:59:44 am
maybe I missed this in some of the earlier replies, but I did not see it any where.

Where can I get access to the interlaced resolutions? Or how am I not seeing these.

If I set my monitor to anything greater then "x" by 288 it looks like crap on my arcade monitor.

I am doing this using an Nvidia GeForce 4 MX and using quickres. I do not see anything that says interlaced. I only see 16 and 32 bit resolutions.

I am doing this in a new machine that I am building, and I am running it through an J-Pac.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ninja-chicken on May 23, 2008, 04:26:47 am
The red could be a fault in your card - or it can't totally handle 15khz. Try another card; try another monitor with that card, if you can. As for dos, there are other things you have to worry about long before video display. You might look into an optimized linux.

Well I've had too many problems with a software solution so I bottled it and bought an ArcadeVGA card. In the meantime I'm worried that the weird red blur im getting is down to the monitor, not the graphics card. The reason I think this is because I used "Advanced Cab" to display 15kHz on DOS and I get the same red blur, whether I use on-board or my GeForce 8500 GT.

I guess I'll know for sure whether it's the monitor when I get my ArcadeVGA card, but it's not looking good :(

If it is the monitor, do you think it's repairable?

Thanks :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 23, 2008, 05:52:36 am
@Ninja-chicken:
Hm... You got an 8500GT to display 15kHz? Maybe I should look into the GeForce8 Series again :)


@moloch:
What do you mean by "look like crap"?
Also, all Modes with more than 288 lines (iE. 480, 600, 768 etc.) are interlaced, those will flicker more than the others.

If you can see a picture at 640x480, you're fine, if not, your MX card doesn't support interlace.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: moloch on May 23, 2008, 10:17:42 am
Then I am guessing it is the card, because at anything greater then 288 I can see the images but it is unusable. I will otry to take a picture of it later to post.

This does make sense, because when I said looks like crap - the crap part is that I am seeing like half the lines and the other half seem to flicker.

I have a box of old video cards laying around somewhere, I will test some more then.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on May 23, 2008, 06:20:34 pm
I wonder how Nvidia 9800 GX2 works with Soft 15khz.

Sailor when do you think you can make ur frogger/galaxian hack into a .diff
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 24, 2008, 06:52:57 pm
I wonder how Nvidia 9800 GX2 works with Soft 15khz.

Sailor when do you think you can make ur frogger/galaxian hack into a .diff


??....why not just get the full build?  Actually, as I mentioned to Haze in another thread, Advancemame apparently already had the feature.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on May 24, 2008, 09:32:21 pm
I compile my own mame, So I would like to have the ability to just add the .diff

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on May 24, 2008, 09:41:42 pm
... as I mentioned to Haze in another thread, Advancemame apparently already had the feature.

Advancemame doesn't work with many videocards under windows,  and Advancemame only works with OLDER versions of Mame.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 26, 2008, 07:14:37 pm
... as I mentioned to Haze in another thread, Advancemame apparently already had the feature.

Advancemame doesn't work with many videocards under windows,  and Advancemame only works with OLDER versions of Mame.

First off, the thing you're missing is that the starfield way back in Advancemame .106 appears to be correct. Did he re-write the driver? What did he do? Haze seems to be ignoring this.

Next, all the cards I've tried work just fine, both ATI and Nvidia over a range of models. I think it's not understanding how to initially configure Advancemame, which is well-documented but not well-presented, that gets people. My experience over time went from, 'How the hell does this work?!', to, "I can get this work....", to, "I can pretty much get it to do anything".

Like the night before where I was having conflicts between games because having a pclock of 5-50 got me better results and a more usable device_video_format than 0-50. However, for a few games - for example, the Mr. Do series - I just made the following entry for:

(ie) dowild/device_video_clock 0-50 / 15.72-18 / 50-90

Whereas before this I was using the sdl mode 240x240, now I was getting a generated mode that worked right off. However, I might go back and see if maybe I was wrong on the 0-50 pclock not working as well. I dunno...it's weird, but I swear some things have changed over time, despite no hardware changes. (Wrong thing to say, heh.)

Another possible issue is there might be some conflicts between cards and mobos. An ATI card I have that ran flawlessly in a 1.5ghz P4 had some troubles with a different make P4 computer. However, all my nvidia's work fine in all the computers I've tried.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on May 26, 2008, 10:22:54 pm
There's no doubt that AdvanceMame is a pain in the rissole to configure.  It is not officially supported under windows, and only goes up to Mame106 for now.  Documentation sucks big-time. I'm no fool, but I've tried AdvanceMame a few times under Windows with ATI cards and all I got was a headache.  I moved on to Powerstrip (and since then, to Soft15khz).

A friend of mine who is a bit of a Linux-guru has been trying to get Linux to do 15khz properly, outside of Advancemame/Advancemenu or WINE (windows emulator 4 Linux), for well over a year (in between other things), but with only limited success.  He seems to have accepted that he is stuck with Advancemame 106 on his Linux-boxes for now.

Soft15khz does what I need for the Windows XP environment, and that includes much more than just playing Mame games.  For example, old kids games like Freddi Fish and Reader Rabbit look simply fantastic on a RGB-CRT TV, and my kids simply *love* playing them this way MUCH MORE than on a PC monitor (bigger screen and the colours are brighter).

At the moment, I use Soft15khz for playing .AVI movies on my 27" Panasonic RGB SCART TV more than playing games anyway.  My movies look damn fine, and many thanks to SailorSat for this  :cheers:



Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 27, 2008, 11:39:02 am
Hahaha :)
Watching Battlestar Galactica on my 33" Giant Cab right now :D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on May 27, 2008, 12:48:03 pm
So this program, basically turns your GFX card into a Ultimarc ArcadeVGA card?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: amadama on May 27, 2008, 02:45:40 pm
Hi,
Has anyone had success with Intel based onboard graphics such as 865G (Integrated Extreme Graphics 2) or higher?
Thanks,
Alex
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 27, 2008, 02:56:00 pm
GMA 900 and newer works, but sucks because of max 5 custom resolutions.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: amadama on May 27, 2008, 03:00:31 pm
Thanks SailorSat!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: amadama on May 27, 2008, 04:05:48 pm
What's the recommended Catalyst version to use? I see from SailorSat's webpage that 6.1 was used in testing but have read in the forum thread that versions 8.x have been used too.
I am going to try a 9800 video card on XP.
Thanks!
Alex
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on May 27, 2008, 04:54:58 pm
What's the recommended Catalyst version to use?

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=66402.msg824199#msg824199

Read a few posts down from there.  I got my 9800 Pro working with version 6.5.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: amadama on May 27, 2008, 07:17:22 pm
Awesome! Thanks ahofle and thanks SailorSat for the links to ATI archive for older versions of Catalyst!
Alex
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: G A R R E T A on May 28, 2008, 03:54:45 am
is soft-15khz only for dedicated video cards only or will onboard video work as well?   I have ati radeon xpress200...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 28, 2008, 06:46:41 pm
is soft-15khz only for dedicated video cards only or will onboard video work as well?   I have ati radeon xpress200...

Read her post above as well as the hardware compatibility section in her thread over there.

And on that note, how do you know which resolutions are available on the Intel sets? The first five in sequence? (I forgot to test thoroughly with my 945 chipset and don't recall which worked or not.)


@Zeb: oh sure, soft15 is very useful for lots of things. Because I'm not using the dos version of Advancemame, I have to set the desktop to something my arcade monitor can handle so I can run advcfg. In any case, if your bud's got it running, how come he didn't show you or get yours going? Also, if interested, check out my tutorial in Advancemame for beginners. It's really very easy.


@lettuce: no, it enables your card to operate in the same manner as the avga. Check out PC2JAMMA. It was doing exactly the same thing as soft15 back in '99. And you've been around here long enough to know about this stuff. Whatchu been doin?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on May 28, 2008, 09:48:25 pm
@Zeb: ....  if your bud's got [Advancemame] running, how come he didn't show you or get yours going? Also, if interested, check out my tutorial in Advancemame for beginners. It's really very easy.

Because my mate uses Linux.  He did show me how to get advancemame running, but that was under Linux.  I prefer to use the latest version of Mame under Windows.  He probably wouldn't like me saying this, but he's a bit envious of my setup under windows.

I've got a CDROM lying around somewhere to setup Advancemame under a limited Linux install.  It isn't the AdvanceCD thing that you can download - same idea, but a couple of steps more sophisticated/less hacked.  But I don't use it.  I would use it if I wanted to set up a simple Mame-box on an old PC, perhaps dedicated to playing old-time 80's classics like Galaga.

I think that Advancemame has some cool features.  For example, changing video resolution on the fly. But I just don't need Advancemame in Windows so much that I'll spend another few days trying to get it to work, possibly without any success.  Maybe probably - it depends a lot on your video card I think.

Where is your tutorial found?  I might give it a go sometime if it makes sense.





Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: amadama on May 29, 2008, 12:38:52 pm
Zebidee, give the Advancecd a try. It works great (I use it on two cabs, both booting from a USB thumb drive). I think in the end using something like Soft15Khz or an ArcadeVGA card gives you more flexibility because you can run most emulators and PC games too right off the Arcade monitor.
Advancemame under windows, not really worth it my opinion...
Good luck!
Alex
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 30, 2008, 06:55:57 pm
@amadama: oh, certainly it is worth it.

@zeb: dude, tell me about it. It took me some months to figure out everything - I was just too damn curious not to. Here's the thread Advancemame for beginners (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=75993.msg789324;topicseen#msg789324) with current corrections/additions.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on May 31, 2008, 11:55:17 am
Removed
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on May 31, 2008, 01:28:48 pm
is there some adventage to running a older version of the catalyst like 6.1 over the most current drivers?

I still am runnnig the Sapphire X1950 pro 512MB DDR3 AGP version with catalyst 8.4 + hot fix and anything I throw at it displays great and I dont have any out of sync or terrible display issue's at all.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 31, 2008, 02:27:53 pm
SOME cards (for example my X600 pro) don't work with newer catalysts.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: mikefr on May 31, 2008, 11:58:16 pm
Nice software.  I have a Raedon 800XT running through a J-PAC on my 25k7195 monitor.  So far the games I have tried run perfect.   Windows looks really good too and I have no trouble reading any text.   I will test out more games tomorrow.




Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: mikefr on June 01, 2008, 10:40:36 pm
I have tried some other games.  Most work flawlessly like (Killer Instinct, Neo Geo, lots of old games).  I am having a problem with the Mortal Kombat series.  They load and display fine except the bottom part the the screen is cut off (I only can see from their waist up....  Quickres shows 400x254 so I believe my card supports it. 

My Hardware: ATI 800XT, Catalist 7.1, JPAC, and a 25K7195 monitor.  Windows is in 640x480 and displays just fine. 

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 02, 2008, 12:04:34 am
You may have to adjust your monitor. The problem would be that arcade games weren't meant to be swaped every five minutes :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: mikefr on June 02, 2008, 08:31:21 pm
That helped.  I can clearly see that the bottom of the screen is showing but I still am getting some graphics cut off at the bottom.  Maybe its just a limitation of the monitor? 

Also all CPS & CPS2 games are outputing in 25Khz or 31Khz because my JPAC is splitting the screen when those are displayed.  I only have the 15Khz modes loaded so I am not quite sure why those are doing that.   
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 03, 2008, 12:04:24 am
hm...
don't know for sure what happend there. try running mame with "-verbose" flag and see what resolution it chooses.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: mikefr on June 03, 2008, 04:04:52 pm
okay. Everything works perfect now.  I discovered that my version of MAME was a little out dated (my stupidity).  The latest release .125 works excellent.  I can't find a game that does 'not' work now.   I really appreciate the work you put into this excellent piece of software. 

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Jox43w on June 05, 2008, 06:55:30 pm
hi is got the soft15hz to work with my matrox d200 pci im guessing its working because my pc moonitor says out of frequency and i had to uninstall via safe mode, im in the uk and have a scart tv which accepts rgb. i dont understand all the diffrent 15hz 25hz etc  but im trying my best to understand what id like to know is can i just use 15hz all the time on my scart tv and play psx and dreamcast emulators?

to the creater of this program hats off to yoou to makiing it public i wouldent mind donating  ;)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Jox43w on June 05, 2008, 08:01:24 pm
whats the most powerfull pci-e card that works perfect with soft15khz then?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 06, 2008, 05:05:33 am
As for now, I would recomend any ATI series card (the highest I tried was an HD2400 which loses some of the very low resolutions but works fine with "higher" ones.) or an NVidia GeForce up to the GeForce 7 Series.

However some ppl reported that GeForce-8 sometimes work (8500GT), others don't (8600GT).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on June 06, 2008, 09:02:41 am
Salior

I dont mean to be a pain, but will you be coming out with new cabmame and a .diff to hack the frogger and galaxian not displaying on horz arcade monitors?
Also has anyone given your feedback on Nvidia 9800gx2 cards with soft 15khz?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Luigi on June 06, 2008, 09:57:31 am
Also has anyone given your feedback on Nvidia 9800gx2 cards with soft 15khz?

I made a list of the tested graphics adapters so far....there's a 9800 Pro, I don't now if 9800gx2 is similiar  ???

http://www.thludwig.de/arcade/Getestete_Grafikkarten_Soft15kHz.htm
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on June 07, 2008, 12:51:22 pm
9800 pro is ATI ard. 9800 GX2 is nvidia card. Fastest there is right now
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on June 07, 2008, 06:17:36 pm
9800 pro is ATI ard. 9800 GX2 is nvidia card. Fastest there is right now

bent on having the mostest, eh?

hi is got the soft15hz to work with my matrox d200 pci im guessing its working because my pc moonitor says out of frequency and i had to uninstall via safe mode, im in the uk and have a scart tv which accepts rgb. i dont understand all the diffrent 15hz 25hz etc 

Google those. Make sure you type KHZ - as those are scan rates, whereas refresh is in HZ. Also, there's tons in the wiki.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: amiga500 on June 08, 2008, 01:09:35 am
I just want to know if I install Soft15khz would I be able to go back with some command to a vga res in case it doesn't work properly on my arcade monitor?
And also, how I make for it to start up with windows and set the arcade monitor resolution automatically?

Sorry if any of this questions are stupid. Thanks

ATI9600XT
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on June 08, 2008, 11:00:52 am
I just want to know if I install Soft15khz would I be able to go back with some command to a vga res in case it doesn't work properly on my arcade monitor?
And also, how I make for it to start up with windows and set the arcade monitor resolution automatically?

Sorry if any of this questions are stupid. Thanks

ATI9600XT

yes on the program itself it can be installed/uninstalled and if you get in a jam you can restart the pc in safe mode to add/remove.

after you install soft15K set your desktop res. setting to 640X480 true color 32-Bit and then shut it down disconnect your vga and hook up your arcade monitor and then power the pc back up and it should display your desktop in 15K 640X480.

if your pc will not allow you to choose 640X480 download QUIKRES install it and set the desktop res to 640X480 that way.

after that the program will select and change res's on it's own for that particular program or game your running.

there's also a program from ultimarc that automatically does the right res selections for mame stuff so they dont have to be done manually all the time. 

I completed Resident Evil 4 in 15K on a cab with a 6 button street fighter setup and it was awsome all the way through but you need a high end card and a $75.00+ PSU to power it to play high end games though..
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: amiga500 on June 08, 2008, 06:23:13 pm
It works great! Thanks man, and thanks also to the developer of this very useful little app.  :applaud:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Rogue72 on June 09, 2008, 05:01:23 am
I also just would like to thank SailorSat :applaud: for this little gem,

after ruuning a cab in dos with arcadeos/advmame, after upgrading the pc
and having problems with dos drivers , i needed to be running
windoze.. so i had resigned myself to buying the arcadevga

after google'in and stumbling on this, had it running in no time at all
(then reading 18 pages of posts to fine tune/tweak the mame setup )

do you have a homepage/www with a donate button, as this as saved me
plenty not having to buy the avga, and lets me carry on using my nvidia cards

just a little question i havent been able to find an answer for is..
does cabmame  support the highscore.dat/highscores saving

currently using maximus arcade as a front end , and mame32UIFX
whilst i am more then happy with the front end, with so many mame
ports/version out there i wonder if i am using the best mame

the only things i really require is highscore saving , win32, i am not a emulation
purist,  so i want things to play well,  so if sound hacks / resolution (frogger) hack
help the game im happy

Cheers
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 09, 2008, 11:29:14 am
Yeah CabMAME supports hiscore saving.

As for a donate button... actually there is :)
http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=8170
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on June 09, 2008, 05:38:09 pm
after you install soft15K set your desktop res. setting to 640X480 true color 32-Bit and then shut it down disconnect your vga and hook up your arcade monitor and then power the pc back up and it should display your desktop in 15K 640X480.

What? Does Windows just sense the type of display connected and switch to interlace?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: chairhome on June 09, 2008, 10:15:54 pm
Okay, hopefully this is the last noob question I'll ask for a while...

I finally got MAME (using MaLa) running on my Killer Instinct 2 cab, but the only caveat is that it seems to be overscanning.  The tops and bottoms (maybe some of the sides?) are getting cut off, even before MaLa starts.  Do I need to change the config files for Soft15khz?  I was using the config files that someone sent me, and they seem to work fine other than this.

Oops, disregard, I fixed the problem.  I did it in a different way though, I just went back to the desktop and changed the resolution down to 800x600.  Thanks anyway.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 10, 2008, 12:16:03 am
What? Does Windows just sense the type of display connected and switch to interlace?

No, after Soft15kHz is installed it will only output interlace.


I finally got MAME (using MaLa) running on my Killer Instinct 2 cab, but the only caveat is that it seems to be overscanning.

Well yeah, arcade games were never meant to be switched daily so most monitors handle each resolution differently.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on June 10, 2008, 06:34:57 pm


No, after Soft15kHz is installed it will only output interlace.

I thought 640x480 in the list was progressive. No?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on June 10, 2008, 10:30:32 pm


No, after Soft15kHz is installed it will only output interlace.

I thought 640x480 in the list was progressive. No?

Only if you install the 31khz resolutions.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on June 12, 2008, 07:30:58 pm


No, after Soft15kHz is installed it will only output interlace.

I thought 640x480 in the list was progressive. No?

Only if you install the 31khz resolutions.

Ah, of course. I had to look back at the stock list. Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on June 26, 2008, 02:01:28 pm
Does this work on Vista 32 or 64?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Jox43w on June 26, 2008, 03:31:56 pm
im using soft15hz with an old 32mb card and i love it. but i plan to upgrade now so i can play pc games too

can anyone tell me if this card will work?


http://www.ebuyer.com/product/139552/show_product_reviews
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 26, 2008, 03:50:46 pm
Does this work on Vista 32 or 64?

Depends on the drivers.
It could work, but haven't tried yet.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on June 26, 2008, 03:53:22 pm
Does this work on Vista 32 or 64?

Depends on the drivers.
It could work, but haven't tried yet.

So No one has tried using with Vista yet then?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on June 28, 2008, 05:55:07 pm
im using soft15hz with an old 32mb card and i love it. but i plan to upgrade now so i can play pc games too

can anyone tell me if this card will work?


http://www.ebuyer.com/product/139552/show_product_reviews

Look back at some of bent98's posts. I remember he had one that didn't fully display the list of resolutions.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on June 28, 2008, 06:09:41 pm
I believe someone posted a few pages back that that card worked flawlessly with all the default resoultions! I wounder if the GT version works aswell??

EDIT: Sorry it was the 7600 GS card
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on June 28, 2008, 06:10:59 pm
So whats the best PCI-E based card that works with all the default resolutions (all that the ArcadeVGA card supports), and as low as 240x240??
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Blanka on June 28, 2008, 06:28:23 pm
A 7600GS is exactly the same as a 7600GT, except for the mhz. So if a GS supports 240x240, the GT must too.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Jox43w on June 29, 2008, 11:11:21 am
im using a matrox g200 and all is working fiine except i cannot run mame with direct 3d or any games that use direct 3d. the directx tests are all working but i just get a white screen when i try and play d3d games  my card plays all d3d games when on my pc monitor without soft15hz any ideas?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 29, 2008, 11:45:53 am
So whats the best PCI-E based card that works with all the default resolutions (all that the ArcadeVGA card supports), and as low as 240x240??

ATI Radeon X600 Pro works fine.


im using a matrox g200 and all is working fiine except i cannot run mame with direct 3d or any games that use direct 3d. the directx tests are all working but i just get a white screen when i try and play d3d games  my card plays all d3d games when on my pc monitor without soft15hz any ideas?

Hm... Don't know.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: deano728 on July 08, 2008, 12:25:52 am
I am sure this is a dumb question, but I went to the website and the newbie guide is in german.  Gruss Gott! is there a translated version somewhere?  I have a geforce 7300GT and I want to see if I need this for it...  I have a newer niemandisplays 25" monitor, but I don't think the card can access all of the resolutions without this tool...

Thanks in advance and my apologies if this question has been addressed before - with 18 pages it is a little long to go through every post.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Jox43w on July 08, 2008, 09:18:24 am
iv looked on the german website with the lst of cards and it says the NVidia GeForce 8600GT PCI-Express works

can anyone tell me if  there is any diffrence with other 8600 cards of diffrent brands

i want to get either a Nvidia GF 8600GTS

or a

 Nvidia 7900GS

can anyone tell me if either of theese will work i want to order asap

thanks!

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 08, 2008, 12:11:22 pm
I'd rather use the 7900.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Jox43w on July 08, 2008, 12:26:40 pm
I'd rather use the 7900.

ok cool will any 7900 work as the diffrent models confuse me.

regarding the newer 8800gt's etc isit a case of they simply will not work or isit a case of not displaying the low resolutions would they display 600x480 or something simular.

reason been my set up is for a media pc connected to a scart tv its also my only pc and i want the best card i can get that will work.

i currently use soft15hz and everything in mame works fine ( what an amazing  piece of software this is!) so the only reason im upgrading my card is to play pc games.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 08, 2008, 02:15:45 pm
As far as I know the GeForce 8 (and 9) series will upscale everything below 512x384.
It DOES support 640x480 though.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on July 08, 2008, 05:54:15 pm
I am selling a 7900GTX if anyone is interested.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: deadsoulz on July 10, 2008, 05:01:30 pm
It should work with XP64.
Never tried it on Vista though :)

Has anyone been able to get this to work on XP64?  I get an error and it just crashes whenever I try to launch it. 

--ds
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 11, 2008, 01:14:51 am
Yeah, works fine on XP 64 for me.

What error do you get?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on July 11, 2008, 10:52:25 am
try placing it on your C: drive it caused error for me when on desktop but on C: it worked flawless.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 12, 2008, 12:59:16 pm
0.126 version of cabmame soon SailorSat?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 12, 2008, 02:46:51 pm
oops now that you mention it... ^^
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on July 13, 2008, 12:03:00 am
I've tried to search through this thread but haven't seen it (or maybe it belongs to another thread) so please don't kill me if this has been asked before.

is there a way to specify on a per mame game basis whether it should switch resolutions or just scale using the current resolution?  By default I'd like games to switch res but for vector games or ones that have too many artifacts, I'd rather scale.

thanks tons in advance!

... I should clarify that I'm running MALA for the front end so I can't run mame with separate switches for each game.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on July 13, 2008, 12:16:28 am
SS, do you know what the earliest drivers that will work for an ATI X1600XT?



I've tried to search through this thread but haven't seen it (or maybe it belongs to another thread) so please don't kill me if this has been asked before.

is there a way to specify on a per mame game basis whether it should switch resolutions or just scale using the current resolution?  By default I'd like games to switch res but for vector games or ones that have too many artifacts, I'd rather scale.

thanks tons in advance!

... I should clarify that I'm running MALA for the front end so I can't run mame with separate switches for each game.



Yes. Look up MameUI's help file. It's the same for Mame, except you have to write the files yourself. Use MameUI to set things, then point MaLa at your Mame exe....or, don't, and just use MameUI as your exe.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on July 13, 2008, 12:18:35 am
Is there a way to specify on a per mame game basis whether it should switch resolutions or just scale using the current resolution?  By default I'd like games to switch res but for vector games or ones that have too many artifacts, I'd rather scale.

Yes, just edit the .ini file for the game, in the \mame\ini directory, and set switchres=1 or switchres=0 depending upon your needs.  You can also do this from MameUI.

Quote
... I should clarify that I'm running MALA for the front end so I can't run mame with separate switches for each game.



??  Frontends shouldn't interfere with this.  I don't use MALA, but if if prevents you from this then I'd suggest you use another frontend like MameWAH.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 13, 2008, 02:46:03 am
SS, do you know what the earliest drivers that will work for an ATI X1600XT?

Hm...
6.1 supports the X1600 Series, but that doesn't state if the X1600 XT too :/

http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat61-xp.html

(just replace the cat61 with higher values for other drivers, i.e. cat66 for 6.6 :))
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on July 13, 2008, 10:41:44 am
Is there a way to specify on a per mame game basis whether it should switch resolutions or just scale using the current resolution?

Yes, just edit the .ini file for the game, in the \mame\ini directory, and set switchres=1 or switchres=0 depending upon your needs.  You can also do this from MameUI.

Quote
... I should clarify that I'm running MALA for the front end so I can't run mame with separate switches for each game.

??  Frontends shouldn't interfere with this.  I don't use MALA, but if if prevents you from this then I'd suggest you use another frontend like MameWAH.

That did exactly what I wanted.  thank you for such a quick and short response!


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Jox43w on July 13, 2008, 01:49:50 pm
is soft15khz compatible with the lcd topgun . im not exatcly sure how light guns work or weather the graphics card makes anydiffrece but i want to order one will it work with my tv scart nd soft15khz?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on July 13, 2008, 06:14:14 pm
is soft15khz compatible with the lcd topgun . im not exatcly sure how light guns work or weather the graphics card makes anydiffrece but i want to order one will it work with my tv scart nd soft15khz?

Yes - lcd topgun works no matter what display. It works without a monitor (although you couldnt see it)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on July 13, 2008, 06:27:46 pm
SS, do you know what the earliest drivers that will work for an ATI X1600XT?

Hm...
6.1 supports the X1600 Series, but that doesn't state if the X1600 XT too :/

http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat61-xp.html

(just replace the cat61 with higher values for other drivers, i.e. cat66 for 6.6 :))

It seems they aren't offering 6.6 anymore, as I get a re-direct page when clicking on either the drivers or full suite links. 6.1 they are offering, but only the full suite; I get a re-direct page for the drivers alone. Of course, the 6.1 drivers don't work.


<later>

Well, I got the 6.6 drivers from somewhere else - and while they work, they don't let me do what I was hoping they might: use my X1600XT with Advancemame. Thank you for the assistance, though.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on July 13, 2008, 11:26:23 pm
Thanks for the tips in helping to get soft15khz and mame working nicely.  Here's a video comparing various 80's games in native vs. scaled resolutions.  These photos were taken directly off of a CRT and not just screenshot'd.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjKLq-LMgjM[/youtube]

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on July 14, 2008, 10:09:39 am
why would you want to use an old 6.1 or 6.6 drivers.

I am using the most current 8.4 I believe with hotfix running a X1950 PRO 512MB DDR3.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on July 14, 2008, 02:47:34 pm
Thanks for the tips in helping to get soft15khz and mame working nicely.  Here's a video comparing various 80's games in native vs. scaled resolutions.  These photos were taken directly off of a CRT and not just screenshot'd.

Thanks for that.  Any chance of posting the side by side pics instead of a youtube video?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on July 14, 2008, 06:54:34 pm
Sailor I noticed you have updated Cabmame 1.26. I also see you have included frogger.diff. I love you. :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on July 14, 2008, 08:38:48 pm
Thanks for the tips in helping to get soft15khz and mame working nicely.  Here's a video comparing various 80's games in native vs. scaled resolutions.  These photos were taken directly off of a CRT and not just screenshot'd.

Thanks for that.  Any chance of posting the side by side pics instead of a youtube video?

That's a good suggestion.  Here are the photos side by side but also with photos off of LCD panels (scaled of course) as a comparison.  Had I thought about it more, I would have included the screen grabs as a baseline for the photos of the CRT and LCD.

bezerk
(http://i38.tinypic.com/2vjofpu.jpg)

gauntlet
(http://i33.tinypic.com/105bokw.jpg)

gng1
(http://i33.tinypic.com/mlr3fn.jpg)

gng2
(http://i33.tinypic.com/j9x18w.jpg)

bubble1
(http://i37.tinypic.com/2myd8ba.jpg)

bubble2
(http://i38.tinypic.com/2wfmhr5.jpg)

lcd displays for photos
(http://i33.tinypic.com/34e2l3d.jpg)

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Blanka on July 15, 2008, 04:19:27 am
I've done some experimenting with overlays for LCD. Now I have to find the Mame team to implement it.
It looks like this:
(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/4140/puckman1920xv2.png)
(http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/82/megamanwf2.jpg)
The images are screencaps at 1920x1200

It takes a different approach than normal open-gl overlays and works great for HD LCD's. It maintains brightness without loosing tridot rendering and scanlines:
-Scale the frame a factor 4 with AA so that the overlay applies scanlines to the exact pixels of the frame.
-Overlay the Behive-horizontal+scanline overlay in a way Photoshop does with the "Cover" layer mode. Cover does not lower the brightness of the total image like MacMame overlays did.
-Upscale again to the monitor resolution (1920x1200 in this example).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on July 15, 2008, 11:58:42 am
That's a good suggestion.  Here are the photos side by side but also with photos off of LCD panels (scaled of course) as a comparison.  Had I thought about it more, I would have included the screen grabs as a baseline for the photos of the CRT and LCD.

Those are great comparison pics, thanks!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: RandyT on July 15, 2008, 03:12:00 pm
I've done some experimenting with overlays for LCD. Now I have to find the Mame team to implement it.
It looks like this:

Interesting.  BTW, to see these properly, one needs to right-click and "view image" in Firefox.

But the megaman one isn't nearly as impressive as the pac image.  Still seems to be a lot of sharp corners, even though the scan lines look good.

RandyT
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on July 15, 2008, 04:31:43 pm
@retro: what monitor were you using for the native and 800x600 runs?


why would you want to use an old 6.1 or 6.6 drivers.

I am using the most current 8.4 I believe with hotfix running a X1950 PRO 512MB DDR3.

The last compatible card with Advancemame is a Radeon X850. I thought maybe the drivers were the main factor and wanted to find a set that worked for my X1600XT.


That's a good suggestion.  Here are the photos side by side but also with photos off of LCD panels (scaled of course) as a comparison.  Had I thought about it more, I would have included the screen grabs as a baseline for the photos of the CRT and LCD.

Those are great comparison pics, thanks!

Yeah, nice to have. Similar to what Oscar did way back and posted on his site. I don't know if I would've made a different decision when I originally asked about all this stuff, but no one did this in answer.


I've done some experimenting with overlays for LCD. Now I have to find the Mame team to implement it.
It looks like this:

Interesting.  BTW, to see these properly, one needs to right-click and "view image" in Firefox.

But the megaman one isn't nearly as impressive as the pac image.  Still seems to be a lot of sharp corners, even though the scan lines look good.

RandyT

The scanlines look good, and, more, the pixels are distinguishable. But the pixel effect seems to make straight lines - for example the sides of the ghosts - jagged.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on July 15, 2008, 06:30:01 pm
I see I only use mamewah I was just wondering if there was some advantage to it or something.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on July 15, 2008, 07:02:07 pm
@retro: what monitor were you using for the native and 800x600 runs?

It's a Wells Gardner D9400.  Here's a video of us playing Blasteroids on it.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjWXlZLPsuA[/youtube]

Those are great comparison pics, thanks!

Yeah, nice to have. Similar to what Oscar did way back and posted on his site. I don't know if I would've made a different decision when I originally asked about all this stuff, but no one did this in answer.

Thanks.  I had the AGP version of the ArcadeVGA card on my previous cab but sold it along with the cab.  I didn't mind not doing native resolution on the new cab but yearned for it after seeing some old cabs at some diners.

I posted these mostly to show people the difference who aren't into this stuff like the people in this forum.  ...and it's interesting to see ppl's preferences.  Some like the original round pixels in native res, some liked the smoothed look, while others like no artifacts from an LCD.  Yet there are others that like LCD with fake scanlines so they get the original look but on a crisp display.

Just looking at the comparision photos, Bubble Bobble looks better (IMO) native but Bezerk looks better scaled.  ...with gauntlet, the scaled looks more detailed...


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on July 15, 2008, 07:04:53 pm
I've done some experimenting with overlays for LCD. Now I have to find the Mame team to implement it.
It looks like this:

That's really cool to see.  It looks much better than the filters from mame.  pacman looks amazing.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 16, 2008, 12:23:56 am
I've done some experimenting with overlays for LCD. Now I have to find the Mame team to implement it.
The images are screencaps at 1920x1200

It takes a different approach than normal open-gl overlays and works great for HD LCD's. It maintains brightness without loosing tridot rendering and scanlines:
-Scale the frame a factor 4 with AA so that the overlay applies scanlines to the exact pixels of the frame.
-Overlay the Behive-horizontal+scanline overlay in a way Photoshop does with the "Cover" layer mode. Cover does not lower the brightness of the total image like MacMame overlays did.
-Upscale again to the monitor resolution (1920x1200 in this example).

Hm... Except the scanlines for pacman shoult be vertical, not horizontal :)

I've done something like that myself, but i took a different approach which won't work for most LCDs.

(http://files.magnanimous-majesty.de/nachtstern/images/misc/videofilter/ninjamas_4x_bifilter_triad6.png) (http://files.magnanimous-majesty.de/nachtstern/images/misc/videofilter/ninjamas_4x_bifilter_triad6.png)
(http://files.magnanimous-majesty.de/nachtstern/images/misc/videofilter/hyprolym_4x_bifilter_triad6.png) (http://files.magnanimous-majesty.de/nachtstern/images/misc/videofilter/hyprolym_4x_bifilter_triad6.png)
(http://files.magnanimous-majesty.de/nachtstern/images/misc/videofilter/joust_4x_bifilter_triad6.png) (http://files.magnanimous-majesty.de/nachtstern/images/misc/videofilter/joust_4x_bifilter_triad6.png)
(http://files.magnanimous-majesty.de/nachtstern/images/misc/videofilter/dkong_3x_bifilter_triad3sl.png) (http://files.magnanimous-majesty.de/nachtstern/images/misc/videofilter/dkong_3x_bifilter_triad3sl.png)

Step1 - Upscale the resolution by 3 (vertical) or 4 (horizontal) with a bilinear filter ("prescale 4" in mame.ini, "filter 1" in mame.ini)
Step2 - Apply the RGB Triad; triad3 for vertical, triad6 for horizontal. ("effect triad6" in mame.ini)
Step3 - Set the output resolution the native screen resolution of my CRT Tube ("resolution0 1600x1200x32@60" in mame.ini)

Effects (place in your artwork folder):
Triad3 (Scanline included) (http://files.magnanimous-majesty.de/nachtstern/images/misc/videofilter/triad3sl.png)
Triad6 (http://files.magnanimous-majesty.de/nachtstern/images/misc/videofilter/triad6.png)

You may need to right-click ans "save as" the effects.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on July 16, 2008, 12:59:39 am
Holy crap that looks fantastic Sailor!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Blanka on July 16, 2008, 02:49:36 am
Hm... Except the scanlines for pacman shoult be vertical, not horizontal :)
The European cab here has horizontal scanlines.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on July 16, 2008, 10:59:43 am
Hm... Except the scanlines for pacman shoult be vertical, not horizontal :)
The European cab here has horizontal scanlines.

Interesting.... so the cab monitor isn't rotated 90 degrees to vertical?


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Casey120 on July 16, 2008, 05:27:17 pm
Thank you Sailor .
I awas playing around with mame on my LCD for the first time and hated the clean look ,
i downloaded your files and applied your settings for my Samsung 22 " LCD and it made a world of difference .

I am planning to build a nice bartop and know now i can use a LCD to keep it small and a maybe little portable .


Thx  :applaud:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on July 17, 2008, 03:15:31 pm
From here, only the top image of SS's looks okay. Maybe they'll look better in situ.

@retro on Blanka's scanlines comment: actually, I remember seeing horizontal scanlines on vertically-oriented games. Recently, seeing some old cabs with I think original monitors, I noticed the lines were sorta more like a grid, but with the horizontal lines more emphasized.

On your pictures, were those recent then?  And, at least close up, I like the dimensionality of the LCD images on games like gauntlet and GnG, but Berzerk looks flat. And in my experience, when viewed from a standard distance anything not native res on a CRT looks a bit flat like Berzerk.

@northerngames: Mamewah is an fe. Advancemame is (or was) a mame build.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on July 17, 2008, 05:01:29 pm
From here, only the top image of SS's looks okay. Maybe they'll look better in situ.

You have to right click and 'view image' and then magnify it to 100% to see the full thing.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 18, 2008, 12:57:05 am
I've edited the posts, just click on the picture :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 18, 2008, 01:43:57 pm
Sailor your complied cabmame64 is that complied with core2duo support?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 18, 2008, 03:39:35 pm
All MAME builds have multithreading support.
If you meant if it is core2 optimized then no.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on July 19, 2008, 03:50:10 pm
I've edited the posts, just click on the picture :)

Yeah, 'show picture' wasn't available. Also, in IE they look artefacted unless I click on the picture again (you know, the little magnifying glass shows + or - ) and then they look good. Similar occurs if I save and view them in an image app; they have to be at 100% to display correctly. They're pretty nice. However, there is still the dimming effect, at least on my PC CRT - ALTHOUGH, perhaps this would be just fine for an LCD, given the backlighting issue.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on July 20, 2008, 02:30:47 am
ahofle: I've not played DoDonpachi before. It reminds me of ESP Rae. That mode you created does work, almost without need for adjustment, though it ends up running at 71.1hz (which doesn't seem to affect game play). I don't know how you get '@60hz', though, because when I calculate it, it doesn't happen. Actually the refresh will be around 73-75 if wanting 25khz.

I created my own modeline which comes closer to 60hz (as in Strikers1945 there's some stutter using yours), but the scanrate is also lower at 20.9khz, which the Betson is probably not capable of. Still, for anyone using a Billabs, or perhaps any other monitor that might be similarly capable, the modeline is:

modeline '432x324 20,9khz 61,29hz' 11,20 432 464 504 536 324 330 334 341 -hsync -vsync


By the way, instead of using a custom25khz.txt, I put them in the usermodes.txt - with which I guess modes of any scanrate can be added.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 20, 2008, 06:48:56 am
All MAME builds have multithreading support.
If you meant if it is core2 optimized then no.

Is it possible for me to complie it again and add the core2 optimization?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 21, 2008, 09:39:23 am
So the, Hacks 0.126 as .DIFF file is basically cabmame in diff format, s i can just use headkaze's Mame Complier 64 and add core 2 duo support and then complie with the, Hacks 0.126 as .DIFF file?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 21, 2008, 03:54:03 pm
Right am running windows xp 64, and when i click on the exe file, i get,

Run-time error '13':
type mismatch

any ideas?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 22, 2008, 12:05:40 am
That's most likely your regional settings.

That damn decimal seperator is driving me crazy.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 22, 2008, 05:00:34 am
Um ok, how do i fix it  ;D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 22, 2008, 11:13:11 am
I just uploaded Build 41 which should fix the decimal separator once and for all...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: patito on July 23, 2008, 07:23:26 am
hi sailor,great software,thanks!

theres any chance to get a better 800x600 15khz modeline?

the current one is missing graphics in the upper and lower parts of the monitor,even adjusting the v.size knob.

thanks again
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 23, 2008, 11:12:46 am
can you even get a monitor to output 15khz @ 800x600?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 23, 2008, 11:16:11 am
Bugger!, still get the error,

Run-time error '13':
type mismatch

Even with the 0.41 release, but it does change the screen res to about 640x40 this time when i click on the exe file  ???  ???
 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 23, 2008, 11:29:28 am
hum... do you have any costum modelines?

soft15khz shouldn't change your screen res at all...


As for 800x600... Well you COULD get full 800x600, but with something like 45Hz which most monitors won't sync anymore.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 23, 2008, 01:25:35 pm
No, no custom modeline, this wil be the first time ive used soft15khz program, so i just have the exe file and thats it
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 23, 2008, 02:25:58 pm
Ok, started windows XP 64 in safemode and now the program loads, but all options are greyed out, guessing cos im in safemode!?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 23, 2008, 02:52:38 pm
Hm... What card and especially what driver are you using? Guess your Error 13 is related to something new :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on July 23, 2008, 11:43:14 pm
can you even get a monitor to output 15khz @ 800x600?

I play alot of newer pc games at the res on my nanao at 15K and they look fine.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 24, 2008, 09:58:10 am
Hm... What card and especially what driver are you using? Guess your Error 13 is related to something new :)

My card is an Nvidia 7600GT, no sure what drivers i have installed i just installed the ones on the cd that came with the card, which nforce drivers are best to use?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 24, 2008, 11:39:18 am
@lettuce:
Should work with any of them.
Please try *some magic test version* and see if it works now.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 24, 2008, 11:58:42 am
It now loads the Soft15khz config window  :applaud:, but all the options are greyed out and a box pops up telling me my drivers are out of date  :hissy:. Is it just a case of updating the drivers for the 7600GT?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 24, 2008, 12:07:48 pm
Hm... Once more with feeling.
(It most likely won't work but hopefully give me some clues :))
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 24, 2008, 12:55:38 pm
Ok, now gives me the message:

*meep*
dummy=

I click on ok and then the same window appears again, then press ok again and it loads the soft15khz window but still tells me my drivers are out of date

I prefered the beta release before, least it didnt call me a dummy twice  ;D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 24, 2008, 01:24:16 pm
Okay... Next one...

*EDIT*
Just noticed I can reproduce the error on my xp64 machine with a 6600GT, I'll investigate...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 24, 2008, 02:00:00 pm
Okay :D

*another secret build* should do it now.


Actually... I somehow don't get a version reply on the nvidia driver file (nv4_disp.dll) on XP 64, even if I use all APIs correctly (and corrected the path vom SysWOW64 to System32).

As for now, I'll use nvapi.dll which seems to work fine.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 24, 2008, 02:16:16 pm
 :applaud:

Sorted all working now, thanks for your help, looks like this is version 0.42 then?  :cheers:

Will this work on an LCD screen aswell then?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 24, 2008, 02:27:26 pm
Yeah well it doesn't matter if you're using a CRT or an TFT/LCD/Plasma or whatever display :)

*EDIT*
Alpha 42 online :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 24, 2008, 02:50:50 pm
Can confirm it also works with Vista 64!. Where can i get hold of the standard 15-31khz txt file?? Noticed in the Quickres list of screen resoultions each resolution is listed 3 times in a row, any ideas. Also my Nvidia 8800GT displays the lower resoultion, 240x240!!!! I take it all these resolutions below 640x480 done go above 60hz??
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 24, 2008, 03:12:41 pm
Huh? Wow... Need to get some GeForce8 cards for testing!

I've seen this "resolutions doubled/trippled"-bug several times now, but I can't find the bug in quickres :/

As for the "lower" resolutions, they all are 60Hz (240/480 lines) or 50Hz (288/576 lines).


Guess I pasted the base modelines several times now... but hey, show must go on :D

Code: [Select]
'15KHz Progressive
/*modeline '320x200' 6.2 320 336 368 410 200 216 219 254 -hsync -vsync*/
modeline '240x240' 4.83 240 252 276 310 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x240' 5.3 256 272 296 336 240 244 247 261 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x256' 5.36 256 268 292 330 256 257 260 273 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x264' 5.35 256 268 292 330 264 265 268 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline '288x240' 5.84 288 296 328 368 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240' 5.95 296 304 336 376 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '304x240' 6.2 304 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '321x240' 6.45 321 336 368 414 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '320x256' 6.68 321 340 372 416 256 257 260 268 -hsync -vsync
modeline '336x240' 6.83 336 352 384 433 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x256' 7.28 352 368 400 450 256 257 260 271 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x264' 7.35 352 365 405 452 264 265 268 284 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x288' 7.4 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync
modeline '368x240' 7.47 368 384 424 478 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '384x288' 7.85 384 400 440 496 288 289 292 309 -hsync -vsync
modeline '392x240' 8 392 408 448 504 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '401x256' 8.08 401 416 456 519 256 268 271 297 -hsync -vsync
modeline '448x240' 9.16 448 464 512 576 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x240' 10.68 512 544 600 672 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x288' 10.68 512 544 600 672 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync
modeline '632x264' 13 632 664 728 824 264 265 268 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x240' 13.22 640 672 736 832 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x288' 13.1 640 672 736 832 288 289 292 309 -hsync -vsync
 


'15KHz Interlace
modeline '512x448' 10,6 512 542 598 672 448 469 472 527 interlace -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x512' 10,6 512 538 594 668 512 513 516 545 interlace -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x480' 13,09 640 672 736 836 480 481 483 526 interlace -hsync -vsync
modeline '720x480' 14,6 720 752 824 928 480 486 489 525 interlace -hsync -vsync
modeline '800x600' 16,48 800 840 920 1040 600 602 605 627 interlace -hsync -vsync
modeline '1024x600' 20,9 1024 1072 1176 1328 600 607 610 627 interlace -hsync -vsync


 
'25KHz Progressive
modeline '448x384' 12,95 448 456 504 520 384 387 390 415 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x384' 14,75 512 520 568 600 384 388 391 410 -hsync -vsync



'31KHz Progressive
modeline '512x448' 21,21 512 542 598 672 448 469 472 527 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x512' 21,21 512 538 594 668 512 513 516 545 -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x480' 26,18 640 672 736 836 480 481 483 526 -hsync -vsync
modeline '720x480' 29,25 720 752 824 928 480 486 489 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline '800x600' 32,96 800 840 920 1040 600 602 605 627 -hsync -vsync
modeline '1024x768' 41,8 1024 1072 1176 1328 600 607 610 627 -hsync -vsync
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 24, 2008, 03:38:38 pm
So i just save that as a txt file then?, what do i need to name it? Quickres gave me all those resoultions without having a txt file within the soft15khz directory is this ususal, if so whats the point of having a txt file, just for your own custom resolutions? Sorry am new to actually using soft15khz, have used the ArcadeVGa card before.So none of these resolutions 15,25 & 31khz output more that 60hz singnal then, just dont want to fry my monitor for the second time  :banghead:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 24, 2008, 03:59:10 pm
The base modelines are already included within soft15khz, so you need nothing besides the base programm itself.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 24, 2008, 04:03:20 pm
So are all base modeline all 60hz or are do they range, as not all arcade resoultions were 60hz?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 24, 2008, 04:05:17 pm
None of them is exactly 60.0Hz, most are slightly lower (59.8 for example).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on July 24, 2008, 04:52:50 pm
I dont use any custom user modes and the only time I used quik res was to get the desktop set at 640X480 on the initial set-up other then that everything worked fine stock for me.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 24, 2008, 05:32:55 pm
I dont use any custom user modes and the only time I used quik res was to get the desktop set at 640X480 on the initial set-up other then that everything worked fine stock for me.

So then you just used a prgram like, Gavin Benson's AVRES Utility to automatically give mame roms their correct resolution?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on July 24, 2008, 09:52:42 pm
exactly use the one from the ultimarc site and the stock soft15K and it will run like the arcadevga would pretty much.

some cards dont go to low without giving them a file to add what is needed to run them type res's right but sailorsat already had the cure for it and had a the fix for them type if needed.

I tried custom modes and got nowhere so I stuck with all stock stuff and everything runs great with the tool from ultimarc even newer pc games work and look good on my nanao even at 800X600

1024X768 is streteched top to bottom and on some newer pc games it crash's if the video need's to run at 1024X768 so 800X600 is my limit but works on most new pc games fine.

call of duty 2 with a trackball was fun becuase I got the lean into it lol
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Jox43w on July 27, 2008, 02:54:49 pm
ok so this works with alot of the nvida cards but will this work with the ati hd3850?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 27, 2008, 02:55:58 pm
Try it, then you'll know.
I can't afford to purchase new cards every month, especially the highend ones.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Jox43w on July 27, 2008, 03:00:50 pm
Try it, then you'll know.
I can't afford to purchase new cards every month, especially the highend ones.

I appriciate that, i was just wondering maby sombody else had tryed it, dosent make much sence in me buying the card for my cab to find out if it works, the hd3850 is £30 cheaper than the 8800gt now and is nearly as quick, would do gr8 in my cab but i guess if i cant find out if it works ill just pick up an 8800gt.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 27, 2008, 06:59:52 pm
Dont take my word as gospel on the 8800GT working 100% i only tried the 240x240 mode, which appear to work fine, though i dont know a way of finding out it it was actually 240x240, as my monitor was telling me it was 640x480, but i know 100% it was not 640x480!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on July 27, 2008, 09:45:05 pm
Dont take my word as gospel on the 8800GT working 100% i only tried the 240x240 mode, which appear to work fine, though i dont know a way of finding out it it was actually 240x240, as my monitor was telling me it was 640x480, but i know 100% it was not 640x480!

This doesn't make any sense to me. Perhaps it was running at high refresh? What monitor was this?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 28, 2008, 11:55:44 am
Dell 2405FPW 24" Monitor, just used quickres to display the 240x240 mode and it change the resolution, theres no way for me to 100% confrim it was indeed a 240x240 resolution however, but was definitely lower than 640x480 as i could not see any of my desktop and the window that pops up and asks if you would like to keep this screen resolution took the whole screen up!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 28, 2008, 11:56:27 am
Err... yeah. Nevermind :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 28, 2008, 02:28:30 pm
Right have just tried all the resolutions from 240x240 and upwards on my BFG 8800GT OC 512MB card and i get a display on all resolutions under Windows Vista 64. On the downside the 7600GT running on my mame PC under windows XP 64, i bought especially for soft15khz, doesnt display a 240x240 picture, just says 'can not display this mode' on my Dell 2405FPW 24" Monitor.

Sailorsat, do you think because my 8800GT is DVI and my 7600GT is VGA would make any difference at all, as thats the way they are connected up to my Dell, one uses the DVI and the other VGA on the back of the dell? Dont really want to buy a 8800GT and have to use a VGA cable (as my monitor doesnt have a DVI connection) to find out it was the cable that was stopping me from displaying the lower resolutions, maybe because its a digital (DVI) rather than analog (VGA) would change anything?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 28, 2008, 02:53:34 pm
Well...
Just to get it right.
You're trying to display 15kHz on a 24" Widescreen TFT?

Sorry to say but that simply doesn't work, as only Arcade Monitors and TVs (CRT / LCD / PLASMA doesn't matter) can sync 15kHz.

Your 7600GT works perfectly, as it outputs 15kHz as it should, your 8800GT outputs 31kHz (or more).


However, if you really want to display 15kHz modes on that TFT with your 7600GT, I can provide some doublescanned modelines that will work fine.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 28, 2008, 02:59:33 pm
The Dell is just my PC monitor, just using it to test, i have a Pentranic Arcade Monitor which my MAME PC isnt connected to yet. Well i only installed the 15khz screen resolutions. Is that why then i cannot et a display on my Dell when using the 7600GT?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 28, 2008, 03:02:46 pm
Jup, just install 15kHz on the 7600GT, reboot, and plug your VGA cable to your arcade screen.
If your arcade screen is multisync you can also install 25kHz and/or 31kHz modes.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 28, 2008, 03:15:08 pm
Didnt think you could get 240x240 to display at 31khz just 15kkhz? Ok will do, one thing i noticed was, i had to rebot my PC in VGA safemode, and then uninstalled soft15khz, then i could get a display again. But when i installed soft15khz again, it must have remember the resolution is was set to before, as i could get a display agian. How can i completely uninstall it so it doesnt remember the resolution is was set to before?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 28, 2008, 03:23:05 pm
Just remove the whole driver, then just install it new.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 28, 2008, 04:00:55 pm
I do, i unstiall it via the program, but when i install it agian, i cannot get a display, i just figured it was because the program remember what the resoultion was set to last time it was installed
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 28, 2008, 04:05:19 pm
I mean you should uninstall the whole forceware.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 28, 2008, 04:06:23 pm
ah ok
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on July 28, 2008, 05:13:46 pm
for a prior question use the quikres  tool to set the res of choice and shut down the pc and it will remember what you last set it at manually prior to shutting it down.

set your quik res for 640X480 for desktop

if you start a 800X600 game or whatever res it will display whatever the game runs at if you shut it down or go out of the game it will bring you back to the 640X480 desktop you have it set at on the quik res tool.

are you trying to manually run a specific game at a specific res off the quik res tool or are you letting soft15K do it's thing on it's own without manually setting anything yourself?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on July 29, 2008, 02:18:39 am
SS, I have a couple questions for you:

1. I'm using an ATI X800XL and have been adding several custom resolutions. I'm pretty sure 321x200/240/256 and 401were there in the initial soft15 install, bafter loading the custom resolutions, the 321 and 401 are missing both from Mame and the QR list. Even if I uninstall the custom modes and do a stock soft15 install, they still don't show. There is 320x240, but of coure it doesn't function.

So then I added them to the custom15khz.txt. 321x200 is missing still. The others show up as 300 and 400, respectively. Maybe it's my card? I don't get it.


2. how are you getting those high refresh modes to work when they don't say '1**hz'?

2b. Also, I'm curious becaue if the monitor can do up to 120hz, why have the 352x288 set at 51hz (essentially 106hz on my monitor) ?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on July 29, 2008, 04:48:37 am
Still curious on questions 2 and 2b, but I found the answer to 1. I had driver conflicts between two different versions: ATI and Omega (ATI). Everything works now. If anyone's curious about some of my custom modes, here they are:

- this one helps with Golden Tee games: modeline '384x240@60' 7,22 384 416 440 472 240 245 248 253 -hsync -vsync .  Although the indigenous 360x480 works, this one is better, at least on my monitor.


- this one is a real 60hz version: modeline '384x288@60' 8,75 384 416 448 480 288 294 297 303 -hsync -vsync


- this is a special mode for Macross Plus displayed horizontally. (Displayed vertically, 384x240 works awesome; I'm thinking of doing a vert cab...) It's kind of a toss-up between the indigenous 448x384, but on my monitor the scanlines with this one seem a little more pronounced: modeline "496x384@59" 14,68 496 528 576 608 384 392 396 404 -hsync -vsync
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 29, 2008, 11:27:29 am
@Ummon: What resolutions are you refering to? (Question 2)

Basically you could double the kHz bei either doubling the vertical refresh, ie. output each frame twice (120hz).
Or you could double it by using "doublescan" which outputs each line twice, i.e. 320x240 doublescanned actually output 320x480.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 29, 2008, 12:20:06 pm
2b. Also, I'm curious becaue if the monitor can do up to 120hz, why have the 352x288 set at 51hz (essentially 106hz on my monitor) ?

Wouldnt setting a 352x288 resolution to 120hz make any mame game you run in that resolution run waaaay too fast?, also fry 99% of users who are using an Arcade monitor! I accidentally put a 800x600 resolution @ 75hz though my Tri-Sync Pentranic (this was before i installed soft15khz) and it fried the horizontal output transistor on it  :o :banghead:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 29, 2008, 12:44:53 pm
You fried your monitor? O_O

As for the 120Hz refresh... Well cabmame has a "redraw" feature to output every frame twice. For the rest, automatic frameskip would do just fine.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 29, 2008, 01:17:33 pm
Just a transistor, all because the hz was above 60!! Thats why i wanted to make sure that no modes Soft15khz uses use above 60hz!??
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on July 29, 2008, 04:09:49 pm
lettuce: there are multisyncs that can handle up to 130hz. I have a presentation monitor that has the following range: 31-52khz, 40-120hz. If you look back in the thread, this has been discussed, and SS even posted some soft15 modes to get native resolutions at high refresh.

SS: I'll try again - those high refresh modes obviously have higher modeline values in them, yet say @59 or @60hz, or in the case of 352x288 still says @51hz - which in practice is really 106hz. However, just as the 15khz version runs at 51hz and is choppy, wouldn't it be better for the high refresh version to run at or around 120hz? (You know, similar to making a 60hz version whose scanrate is 18khz.)

This brings up a couple other related things:

a. I created and put in my own high refresh modeline, but it said '@120hz' and it was superceded by the original, stock modeline. Is that why?...that it has to say something close to 60hz for soft15 to install it?

b. I've notice there is some looseness in the txt file syntax allowed. What exactly are the limits, character-wise?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 29, 2008, 07:32:56 pm
So what you are saying it that some of the standard/preset soft15khz modes use more than 60hz then???
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 30, 2008, 12:27:32 am
So what you are saying it that some of the standard/preset soft15khz modes use more than 60hz then???

He was talking about the high refresh modelines.



SS: I'll try again - those high refresh modes obviously have higher modeline values in them, yet say @59 or @60hz, or in the case of 352x288 still says @51hz - which in practice is really 106hz. However, just as the 15khz version runs at 51hz and is choppy, wouldn't it be better for the high refresh version to run at or around 120hz? (You know, similar to making a 60hz version whose scanrate is 18khz.)

Yeah, I just doubled the pixel clock on those modes, not the "mode name" field (which isn't used for anything at all).
All of these modes should have 31kHz. So most likely they don't use the full spectrum of your monitor.



This brings up a couple other related things:

a. I created and put in my own high refresh modeline, but it said '@120hz' and it was superceded by the original, stock modeline. Is that why?...that it has to say something close to 60hz for soft15 to install it?
Hm... If you add it in "custom15khz" it will overwrite the stock resolution, if theres any, and will add it as "60hz" to windows (though it is still output as 120).
If you add it in "usermodes" then it will be added with the real refresh rate to windows, and also will not overwrite any stock modeline.



b. I've notice there is some looseness in the txt file syntax allowed. What exactly are the limits, character-wise?
Hm... in the most simple case, just use basic chars and numbers.


modeline "name" pixelclock h_active h_syncstart h_syncend h_total v_active v_syncstart v_syncend v_total options

The name field is ignored, but should not contain any spaces or stuff (could fry my parser).
the resolution added to windows is h_active * v_active.
The vertical refresh rate is calculated by h_total * v_total / pixelclock (doublescan halves the output refresh, interlaced doubles it!)
The options field can contain pretty much everything but soft-15kHz only parses "-hsync", "+hsync", "-vsync", "+vsync", "interlace" und "doublescan" atm.

All values except the pixelclock should be integer values (means no dot/komma whatever).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on July 30, 2008, 01:52:54 pm
SS, is this how the standard soft-15KHz resolutions are set out...

H   V       Refresh Special
240 240 60Hz
256 240 60Hz
256 256 60Hz
256 264 58Hz
288 240 60Hz
296 240 60Hz
304 240 60Hz
321 240 60Hz
321 256 60Hz
336 240 60Hz
352 256 60Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
352 264 58Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
352 288 51Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
368 240 60Hz
384 288 51Hz
392 240 60Hz
401 256 53Hz (Mortal Kombat etc)
448 240 60Hz
512 240 60Hz
512 288 51Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
512 448       
512 512 58Hz
632 264 57Hz
640 240 60Hz
640 288
640 480 60Hz
648 288
720 480 60Hz Artwork
800 600 50Hz
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 30, 2008, 02:18:08 pm
Yep, something like that.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on July 31, 2008, 03:08:14 am
Quote from: SailorSat link=topic=66402.msg864308#msg864308
Hm... If you add it in "custom15khz" it will overwrite the stock resolution, if theres any, and will add it as "60hz" to windows (though it is still output as 120).
If you add it in "usermodes" then it will be added with the real refresh rate to windows, and also will not overwrite any stock modeline.

There seems to be a caveat, though. You cannot add another of the same resolution as that in the stock set - you can only over-write it. I tried to add two 'alternate' 256x240 resolutions via 'usermodes' but they aren't available.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 31, 2008, 11:51:30 am
Hm... Just stay sure it's not something like "59,67"Hz, that would get rounded to 60Hz.

Whatever, just post me the two modelines and I'll check.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on July 31, 2008, 12:31:16 pm
I have had same issue. I had to remove orginal resolution. I would love the ability to have multiple refreshrate on same resolution co-exsist
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on July 31, 2008, 09:43:24 pm
remove 352x288
modeline '352x288 60,61Hz' 8,77 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync

Only way i ould get this resolution to take is to add this into my custom15khz.txt

If I tried to add modeline '352x288 60,61Hz' 8,77 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync to usermodes.txt the standard 352x288@60 over rides it.

So I have to remove default and add that new modeline to the custom. If you can fix this then we can add 100's of modelines for every refreshrate.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 01, 2008, 12:08:49 am
Hm... I think I just spotted the problem. I'll look into it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 01, 2008, 02:16:33 am
Hm... Just stay sure it's not something like "59,67"Hz, that would get rounded to 60Hz.

Whatever, just post me the two modelines and I'll check.

Sorry, didn't think to.

Modeline "256x240@60" 5.15 256 288 304 336 240 245 248 253 -hsync -vsync

Modeline "256x240@66" 5.61 256 288 304 336 240 245 248 253 -hsync -vsync


Also, I'm curious what happened to that auto utility you talked of a while back?  Although, it wouldn't take into account the monitor would it? (I'm suggesting developing a feature like Advancemame has and incorporating it into Cabmame.)


I have had same issue. I had to remove orginal resolution. I would love the ability to have multiple refreshrate on same resolution co-exsist

 Essentially, I thought as long as the refresh is close 60, it should be stable. Then it's just a matter of finding the right resolution that will most fill the screen. I miss Advancemame in this regard because it by default looks for a mode that is closest to 60hz, though within the constraints of your device_video_format. I haven't been able similarly get the modeline generator online to find a resolution from scanrate and refresh, though.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 01, 2008, 07:04:43 am
Salior

I know in build 39 you added the ability to add several modlines to the usermodes.txt.  with out a buffer overflow error do the newer builds have this ability? I noticed on the soft15 revsions page build 39 was skipped over.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 01, 2008, 09:28:48 am
all after build 39 have this feature, though I'm not at home right now and can't test in a real life enviroment.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 01, 2008, 10:57:48 am
SS, is this how the standard soft-15KHz resolutions are set out...

H   V       Refresh Special
240 240 60Hz
256 240 60Hz
256 256 60Hz
256 264 58Hz
288 240 60Hz
296 240 60Hz
304 240 60Hz
321 240 60Hz
321 256 60Hz
336 240 60Hz
352 256 60Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
352 264 58Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
352 288 51Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
368 240 60Hz
384 288 51Hz
392 240 60Hz
401 256 53Hz (Mortal Kombat etc)
448 240 60Hz
512 240 60Hz
512 288 51Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
512 448       
512 512 58Hz
632 264 57Hz
640 240 60Hz
640 288
640 480 60Hz
648 288
720 480 60Hz Artwork
800 600 50Hz

Is it possible to run the above resolutions in 31khz mode?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 01, 2008, 01:42:26 pm
Hm... I think I just spotted the problem. I'll look into it.

Great news.

Any ETA on when a new version will be out?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 01, 2008, 11:07:04 pm
I may pick up this old card on a used system.  Does this work with soft15khz?  Is there a list/url where I can checkout other card's compat w/ soft15khz?  thanks!

Sapphire Radeon X700 Pro 256MB PCI-E Video Card


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on August 01, 2008, 11:31:12 pm
should work as they all run the same drivers I am using the most current wich can also be used on the X700 or any other X-series.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Jox43w on August 02, 2008, 03:25:42 pm
my 8800gt arrived last weeks all is working perfectly crysis on a cab is awsome!

isit ok to update my graphics card drivers whislt soft15hz is installed or should i uninstall it 1st?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 02, 2008, 04:39:54 pm
SS, is this how the standard soft-15KHz resolutions are set out...

H   V       Refresh Special
240 240 60Hz
256 240 60Hz
256 256 60Hz
256 264 58Hz
288 240 60Hz
296 240 60Hz
304 240 60Hz
321 240 60Hz
321 256 60Hz
336 240 60Hz
352 256 60Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
352 264 58Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
352 288 51Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
368 240 60Hz
384 288 51Hz
392 240 60Hz
401 256 53Hz (Mortal Kombat etc)
448 240 60Hz
512 240 60Hz
512 288 51Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
512 448       
512 512 58Hz
632 264 57Hz
640 240 60Hz
640 288
640 480 60Hz
648 288
720 480 60Hz Artwork
800 600 50Hz

Is it possible to run the above resolutions in 31khz mode?

It depends what you mean. If you mean at around 31khz and 60hz, yes. The DVI out of the arcade vga actually does this. I can't see any reason to want it to, cos you can get the same display by using D3D with bilinear filtering off. If, however, you mean your monitor will run up to 120hz or so, and you want to use the high refresh modes, look through the thread for them.


my 8800gt arrived last weeks all is working perfectly crysis on a cab is awsome!

isit ok to update my graphics card drivers whislt soft15hz is installed or should i uninstall it 1st?

You can change drivers as you wish - however, for each time you uninstall/install drivers, regardless if it's the same card being used, you'll need to reload soft15, as when drivers are uninstalled the video registry key values are set back to default. (Make sure, if trying the same brand of drivers, to uninstall what's in before installing something else.)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 02, 2008, 07:33:40 pm
It depends what you mean. If you mean at around 31khz and 60hz, yes. The DVI out of the arcade vga actually does this. I can't see any reason to want it to, cos you can get the same display by using D3D with bilinear filtering off. If, however, you mean your monitor will run up to 120hz or so, and you want to use the high refresh modes, look through the thread for them.

Yeah keeping the same refresh rates as ithe standard 15khz in soft-15khz, but in 31khz instead. Im not using an ArcadeVGA card, just a 7600GT card, i just wanted to test what the display would be like using screen resolutions at 240x240 up to 640x480 at 31khz instead of 15khz!?. As like most tri-sync monitors in the 15khz display mode i get a horizontal linearity issue on the far right side of the screen, but it is not there when diplaying the 31khz mode
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 03, 2008, 06:11:37 am
Just found this spreadsheet that calculates screen resolutions for you over at JVS-PAC development site, http://jvspac.kirurg.org/?page=downloads, basically this spreadshhet calculates 31khz screens resolutions at x2. Using these ini settings for mame,

# CORE PERFORMANCE OPTIONS
autoframeskip                1
refreshspeed                 1
# WINDOWS PERFORMANCE              OPTIONS
multithreading                1
# WINDOWS VIDEO OPTIONS
video                    ddraw
prescale                                 2
effect                    scanlines.png
# DIRECTDRAW-SPECIFIC OPTIONS
hwstretch                 0
# FULL SCREEN OPTIONS
triplebuffer                 1
switchres                 1

"With this setup, MAME will prefer a mode that is a 2 times the games resolution. If you have a game that is 320x240, MAME will pick 640x480, and render pixels at exactly two times their original size.  This is a good-thing(tm), as there will be no jagged/blurry scaling artifacts"

Am just woundering is there any spreadsheets that calculates screen resolution formular for just standard resolutions and not double them like this spreadsheet does
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 03, 2008, 06:14:58 am
Using the spreadsheet calculator i mentioned above i have taken these 15khz resolutions:

H   V       Refresh Special
240 240 60Hz
256 240 60Hz
256 256 60Hz
256 264 58Hz
288 240 60Hz
296 240 60Hz
304 240 60Hz
321 240 60Hz
321 256 60Hz
336 240 60Hz
352 256 60Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
352 264 58Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
352 288 51Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
368 240 60Hz
384 288 51Hz
392 240 60Hz
401 256 53Hz (Mortal Kombat etc)
448 240 60Hz
512 240 60Hz
512 288 51Hz Vert on Horiz Mon
512 448       
512 512 58Hz

and gotten these using the spreadsheet, remember these are all x2 resolutions of the above for 31khz arcade monitors:

modeline "480x480-60" 19.152 480 496 568 608 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x480-60" 20.412 512 528 608 648 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x512-60" 20.412 512 528 608 648 512 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x528-58" 20.412 512 528 608 648 528 508 510 543 -hsync -vsync
modeline "576x480-60" 22.68 576 592 680 720 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "592x480-60" 23.436 592 608 696 744 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "608x480-60" 23.94 608 624 712 760 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "640x480-60" 25.2 640 656 752 800 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "640x512-60" 25.2 640 656 752 800 512 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "672x480-60" 26.46 672 688 792 840 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "704x512-60" 27.72 704 720 824 880 512 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "704x528-58" 27.72 704 720 824 880 528 508 510 543 -hsync -vsync
modeline "704x576-51" 27.72 704 720 824 880 576 583 585 618 -hsync -vsync
modeline "736x480-60" 28.98 736 752 864 920 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "768x576-51" 29.988 768 784 896 952 576 583 585 618 -hsync -vsync
modeline "784x480-60" 30.744 784 800 920 976 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "800x512-53" 31.752 800 824 944 1008 512 559 561 594 -hsync -vsync
modeline "896x480-60" 35.28 896 920 1056 1120 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "1024x480-60" 40.32 1024 1048 1200 1280 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync            
modeline "1024x480-51" 40.32 1024 1048 1200 1280 480 583 585 618 -hsync -vsync
modeline "1024x512-58" 40.32 1024 1048 1200 1280 512 508 510 543 -hsync -vsync
modeline "1024x576-51" 40.32 1024 1048 1200 1280 576 583 585 618 -hsync -vsync
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 04, 2008, 12:20:06 am

Does soft15khz work in 64bit Vista?  Does it depend on using proper ATI/Nvidia drivers or can it work with the drivers vista x64 picked for my ATI x700?  thanks!


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Carlito on August 04, 2008, 01:24:00 am
The first post says
Quote
As on post, I support ATI Catalyst, NVidia ForceWare, Matrox PowerDesk and various 3Dfx Voodoo3/4/5 drivers"
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 04, 2008, 08:29:41 am
The first post says
Quote
As on post, I support ATI Catalyst, NVidia ForceWare, Matrox PowerDesk and various 3Dfx Voodoo3/4/5 drivers"

Thanks.  That's why I specified "proper" ati/nvidia drivers.  Also Vista x64.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Carlito on August 04, 2008, 11:13:17 am
ATI Catalyst and NVidia ForceWare are 'proper' ati/nvidia drivers.  ;)

I'm not sure about x64 though, sorry, have not tried it myself.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 04, 2008, 03:57:13 pm
Okay... Back from a quite flipped out weekend...
Well on my ATI Radeon 7000 multi refresh rates work just fine.

*EDIT* Please note that QuickRes only shows each resolution ONCE and defaults to 60Hz mode (if available).

Quote
   224x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   224x 232@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   232x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   240x 192@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   240x 192@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   240x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   240x 248@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 184@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 192@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 208@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 208@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   256x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   256x 230@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 240@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 240@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   256x 256@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 256@ 76Hz -> 60.998153
   260x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   272x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   272x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   272x 236@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   288x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   288x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   304x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   320x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504


As for Vista 64... Well XP64 works, but I don't know if it will work with (any) Vista at all.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 04, 2008, 04:15:27 pm
Okay... Back from a quite flipped out weekend...

Oh, please, do tell.


Quote
Well on my ATI Radeon 7000 multi refresh rates work just fine.

*EDIT* Please note that QuickRes only shows each resolution ONCE and defaults to 60Hz mode (if available).

Quote
   224x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   224x 232@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   232x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   240x 192@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   240x 192@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   240x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   240x 248@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 184@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 192@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 208@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 208@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   256x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   256x 230@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 240@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 240@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   256x 256@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   256x 256@ 76Hz -> 60.998153
   260x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   272x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   272x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   272x 236@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   288x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   288x 224@ 61Hz -> 717.391312
   304x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504
   320x 224@ 60Hz -> 622.641504



Hmm. I'm assuming that's verbose or whatever from the command line?  I tend to use mame32/UI to set up/test/etc and when I look in the list of resolutions available per game, there are no redundancies. Perhaps this is the same as with QuickRes?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 04, 2008, 09:42:51 pm
Hm... I think I just spotted the problem. I'll look into it.

Did you ever find anything?



I tried Mame UI and also regular mame with cfg files, is there anything special needed to be enetered in the game cfg in mame? I was never successful in getting multiple refresh share same resolution to work.


Okay... Back from a quite flipped out weekend...
Well on my ATI Radeon 7000 multi refresh rates work just fine.

*EDIT* Please note that QuickRes only shows each resolution ONCE and defaults to 60Hz mode (if available).



Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 05, 2008, 12:05:53 am
I only tested with my Radeon yet, tests with others today after work.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 05, 2008, 08:11:09 am
I only tested with my Radeon yet, tests with others today after work.

Ok

Thanks Sailor for your time testing. Can you also please let ummon and I know how you tell mame what refresh and resolution to select. It seems to be a an issue for us to activly select different refresh rates other then the defaults.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 05, 2008, 05:58:17 pm
SailorSat, could you explain why when i use the below usermodes, it seems to effect the base line 15, 25, & 31KHZ modes already installed:

modeline "768x480" 29.988 768 784 896 952 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "768x512" 29.988 768 784 896 952 512 538 540 573 -hsync -vsync
modeline "512x480" 20.412 512 528 608 648 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "640x480" 25.2 640 656 752 800 480 490 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline "800x506" 31.752 800 824 944 1008 506 540 542 575 -hsync -vsync

It basically seems to take away the natural scanlines that games have when displayed on my tri-sync monitor. I cant understand why the above resolutions would effect the preset resolution, as on the games effected im not even using any of the above resolutions in the ini files of said games!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 06, 2008, 08:12:31 am

Hi SailorSat.

I finally got Vista x64bit installed along with the 64bit drivers from AMD for my x700 card.  Everything looks ok when i launch soft15khz and selected the various install buttons.  I reboot and using quickres or the ati cat util the lowest resolution that shows up is still 640x480.

I difference than my previous setup... I don't have this new pc hooked up to my Wells Gardner D9400 yet.  It's hooked up to a generic lcd display while it's being worked on.  Could the monitor Vista detects affect the resolutions that are shown available?

Thanks again.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 06, 2008, 01:38:34 pm
SailorSat, what if you have 2 resolutions the same, say 640x480 one in 31khz and one in usermode but different refresh rates, how do you identify which resolutions is which from the quickres list?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 06, 2008, 03:12:59 pm
@retrometro: Either the LCD sends some "DDC" informations on what resolution it supports or vista doesn't like the changes at all :)

@lettuce: Err... Like I said, if there are more than one refresh rates per resolution, QuickRes selects the 60Hz one.
As for the other issue, well... there's a limit of 32 modes on nvidia cards, if you define more, you just "---fudgesicle--- up" any modeline defined.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 06, 2008, 03:49:47 pm
@retrometro: Either the LCD sends some "DDC" informations on what resolution it supports or vista doesn't like the changes at all :)


Oh man... I didn't want to read that.  so I guess that answers my question of whether anyone's been successful at running soft15khz on 64bit Vista.  :-(  I'll try hooking the pc up to the multisync tonight and see if it makes a difference.

Do you know of people confirming that they've been successful with ATI cards on XP x64?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 06, 2008, 10:06:50 pm
Oh man.... hooking it up to the crt didn't work.  the onboard video wasn't recognized by soft15khz...  i think i'm going to try one more thing before installing xp x64 on it.  I'm going to maybe downgrade the ATI Cat software / driver? 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: .trunzx on August 06, 2008, 10:45:28 pm
SailorSat,

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I have a question about start up. I have an arcade monitor that could potentially be damaged if I send a 31khz signal to it. However it will accept 15/25khz once windows is loaded and running your software. What would you recommend that I do?, so I don't blow up the monitor during that initial start up. (Video card is an ATI 9200 or 9800 haven't decided which to use yet, and monitor is a Pentranic 33" switchable ega/cga). Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 07, 2008, 12:19:23 am
Oh man.... hooking it up to the crt didn't work.  the onboard video wasn't recognized by soft15khz...  i think i'm going to try one more thing before installing xp x64 on it.  I'm going to maybe downgrade the ATI Cat software / driver? 

XP 64 works.



SailorSat,

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I have a question about start up. I have an arcade monitor that could potentially be damaged if I send a 31khz signal to it. However it will accept 15/25khz once windows is loaded and running your software. What would you recommend that I do?, so I don't blow up the monitor during that initial start up. (Video card is an ATI 9200 or 9800 haven't decided which to use yet, and monitor is a Pentranic 33" switchable ega/cga). Thanks

Either use a J-PAC to block the "wrong" frequencies, or use am additional PCI card (any old one will do) to catch the boot and bios screens until windows starts up.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 07, 2008, 08:35:24 am
Oh man.... hooking it up to the crt didn't work.  the onboard video wasn't recognized by soft15khz...  i think i'm going to try one more thing before installing xp x64 on it.  I'm going to maybe downgrade the ATI Cat software / driver? 

XP 64 works.


Just to update you, I tried downgrading to the earliest vista x64 drivers I could find on AMD's site for the x700 but that didn't work.  I'll install XP 64 tonight with the latest x64 drivers and see how that goes.

BTW, I'm going to donate as soon as I can I promise!  Although my budget and the value of the American dollar these days may not amount to much!


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 07, 2008, 03:33:29 pm
I came across a problem that i couldnt work out to start of with but have now figured it out. Basically i was trying out just using 'usermodes' mode, i had the majority of the standard 15khz mode included but had taken some of the standard 15khz mode resolutions out to make space for some custom ones, i had previously complied ini files for all games using Gavin Besons AVRes program. I noticed that some games (according to my Monitor) were displaying FH: 31.7khz & FV: 120.1hz displays even though these games are surpposed to have a FH of 15khz or there abouts. In the end i worked out that is was becuase the screen resolutions in the ini files for these games were the resolutions that i had removed!, now why did soft15khz decided to display these games at 31.7khz and 120.1hz?? My monitor is surpossed to only support upto 60hz yet its displaying double that at 120hz?? I would actually love all my 15khz games to run in 31khz modes, as in 15khz on my tri-sync monitor i get a horizontal linearity issue on the right side of the screen, its basically squished on that side, but in 31khz mode its perfect! Now is it possible to have all the 15khz resolutions, 240x240 up to 640x288 so they display at 31khz but still keep the correct refresh rates for the games??
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 07, 2008, 06:24:50 pm
Also what are people using to calculate there modelines?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 07, 2008, 09:51:12 pm

Yup, just like you wrote SailorSat.  XP x64 works fine.  I'll have to install Vista x64 again another time.

Is sailorsat@animeger.de still the place to donate via paypal?


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 08, 2008, 10:09:14 am
Also what are people using to calculate there modelines?

Anyone?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 08, 2008, 04:48:34 pm
Oh man.... hooking it up to the crt didn't work.  the onboard video wasn't recognized by soft15khz...  

Of course it wasn't. Read the documentation on the app, yo.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 08, 2008, 07:44:13 pm
...XP 64 works great with Soft15Khz!  yay!  but for whatever reason XP x64 is giving poor performance compared to XP 32 and Vista x64.  :-(     :timebomb:

Hey everyone.  First, here are some percentages for 6 games of varying run speeds.  My preference is if you guys can help me figure out what's wrong with my configuration or confirm what I'm experiencing is normal (hopefully not).

mame-v126.exe -noautoframeskip -frameskip 0 -seconds_to_run 100 -nothrottle -nosleep -video ddraw -skip_gameinfo -effect none -nowaitvsync -noreadconfig -mt

  --------------------------------------------------------------------
  CPU ------------------ Pentium4    E6300    E6300    E6300    E6300
  Clockspeed -----------     2.53     2.45     2.45     2.45     2.45
  OS Used --------------     XP32     XP32  Vista64     XP64     XP64
  MAME executable ------    32bit    32bit    64bit    32bit    64bit
  --------------------------------------------------------------------
  Killer Instinct 2    -   143.2%   312.7%   365.7%   240.6%   276.7%
  Cruisin USA          -    55.4%   131.9%   139.8%    96.6%   108.2%
  Gauntlet Legends     -    30.1%    92.7%   107.6%    72.1%    82.8%
  Blitz 2k             -    27.9%    89.0%   101.9%    64.1%    72.8%
  Gradius 4            -    19.2%    66.1%    75.4%    49.4%    58.7%
  Starblade            -    37.3%    89.3%    83.6%    68.8%    64.2%
  --------------------------------------------------------------------

After reading this entire thread (awesome but long), I figured it may not cost me so much to upgrade.  I recently bought a used system on craigslist for $300 to stretch out performance on some mame games as well as other emulators. 

My disappointment right now isn't so much that the system isn't performing as well as 4ghz and up systems mentioned in this thread but so much that there are apparently some trade off's that I hope I won't have to make (this is where you come in!)

My P4 at 2.53ghz was paired with an old AGP GeForce4 Ti.  You can see the performance above.  It ran nearly all of the "regular" mame games fine as you can guess but anything that required a little muscle, it was barely ok to poor.

The E6300 normally at 1.8ghz has been successfully overclocked to 2.45ghz.  Although I didn't record the results above, it basically runs proportionally faster by the clock speed percentage.  It is paired with an old PCI-E ATI x700 Pro and the system runs PC-6400 corsairs with blinky lights.

Staying on Windows XP 32bit there is a about a 2.5x o 3x speed improvement between the old and new pc.  Then once I go to to Vista x64 and run a 64bit version of mame, I get another 10% from that.  If everything worked great from here, my post may be about tweaking or planning a next CPU / motherboard purchase.

But the problem right now with Vista x64 is that SailorSat's fantastic Soft15Khz isn't working with Vista x64.... argh!!!  :banghead:  I've tried the latest powerstrip and haven't had any success with going below 640x480.  I've read the faq but am welcomed to suggestions.  The last alternative is to buy an ArcadeVGA v2 PCI-E and hope it also works with Vista x64.  Even if it does, other emulators will suffer since I think the x700 pro is a superior card to the ATI 9250 the ArcadeVGA v2 is based on.

With XP x64 everything works but I get the horrible numbers you see above for both 32bit and 64bit compiles of MAME.  Arghhh!!!!    :cry:

My hope is that either SailorSat fixes Vista x64 issues (or tell me how I've got it misconfigured) or one of you brainy forum readers can help me out with my potentially screwed up XP x64 box.  Yes, the latest ATI drivers and patches, etc have been installed.  Anti-Virus off, etc.  But please suggest more things to look at!

I ran these tests with 100 seconds but can do 240 as some of the more recent posts have been but it's the relative percentages to each other that I'm concerned about mostly.  Thanks everyone in advance....  you're my only hope.


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on August 09, 2008, 12:02:26 pm
you could check to see if there is any unwanted start up program running that dont need to be running.

most the chd's dont run right on a pc twice that strength

I run a AMD athlon 64 4000+ with 2 gig ram duel channel kit and a radeon X1950 pro DDR3 512MB and they stil dont work right and there is pc's even stronger then that and they still dont run right either.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 09, 2008, 01:31:36 pm
you could check to see if there is any unwanted start up program running that dont need to be running.

most the chd's dont run right on a pc twice that strength

I run a AMD athlon 64 4000+ with 2 gig ram duel channel kit and a radeon X1950 pro DDR3 512MB and they stil dont work right and there is pc's even stronger then that and they still dont run right either.

Thanks northerngames. 

It turns out after patching or tweaking some BIOS settings, the CPU defaulted back to its 1.86ghz instead of the 2.54ghz overclocked.  Put memory speed and FSB back to the way it was and bam.  I guess at this rate, I won't need Vista x64 since new tests show XP x64 running 64bit mame is the same speed since i turn off just about every feature and service I can on Vista anyway.

Even MALA and xvid seem to play together better now.  Can't wait to customize hyperspin tool.

Okay, back to the paypal thing again.  Does anyone know SailorSat's paypal address?


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 09, 2008, 02:51:19 pm
Just curious, Mala is working fine in Vista 64?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 09, 2008, 03:11:37 pm
Just curious, Mala is working fine in Vista 64?

Mala works great in Vista 64.  I used 1.04 and 1.05.  The part I'm not sure if it was due to the CPU upgrade or 64bit is that videos seem to run smoother / faster.


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Carlito on August 09, 2008, 05:20:32 pm
Quote
Okay, back to the paypal thing again.  Does anyone know SailorSat's paypal address?

There's a link on this page: http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=8170
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 10, 2008, 12:07:59 am
Done.  Sorry it's not much but thanks for your hard work and contribution to the community!

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 10, 2008, 05:32:27 pm
Could someone tell me why my monitor is registering this modeline,

modeline '352x264' 7.35 352 365 405 452 264 265 268 284 -hsync -vsync

As running at around 112hz for the Vertical Freq?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 10, 2008, 05:44:16 pm
Could someone tell me why my monitor is registering this modeline,

modeline '352x264' 7.35 352 365 405 452 264 265 268 284 -hsync -vsync

As running at around 112hz for the Vertical Freq?

Some cards, and I have one - an Nvidia 6200 - will not do some 15khz resolutions. Actually, I think it will only do the main '640x244' and the rest it automatically doubles the refresh. Something to do with how it, or in combination with the drivers, interacts with Windows. I tried altering the function of the card with Rivatuner and nothing changed.

(The thing works great for Advancemame, though, and will output anything my monitor can handle, which is literally 15-48khz. As Advancemame has it's own drivers that appear to work in lieu of the Windows default registry keys. Essentially, I got tired of having to try to create near-perfect modes, that didn't conflict monitor-wise, that were based on 60hz refresh. So I went back to my old card.)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 10, 2008, 07:03:36 pm
Could someone tell me why my monitor is registering this modeline,

modeline '352x264' 7.35 352 365 405 452 264 265 268 284 -hsync -vsync

As running at around 112hz for the Vertical Freq?

Some cards, and I have one - an Nvidia 6200 - will not do some 15khz resolutions. Actually, I think it will only do the main '640x244' and the rest it automatically doubles the refresh. Something to do with how it, or in combination with the drivers, interacts with Windows. I tried altering the function of the card with Rivatuner and nothing changed.

(The thing works great for Advancemame, though, and will output anything my monitor can handle, which is literally 15-48khz. As Advancemame has it's own drivers that appear to work in lieu of the Windows default registry keys. Essentially, I got tired of having to try to create near-perfect modes, that didn't conflict monitor-wise, that were based on 60hz refresh. So I went back to my old card.)

Ok, thanks for the reply, i guess running my monitor at 114hz when its spec is 40-90hz isnt good for it!?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 11, 2008, 01:43:18 pm
Is it possible to add a 352x288 mode at 60hz?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Paul Olson on August 12, 2008, 12:24:59 pm
Has anyone managed to get this running under Vista 64. I saw an earlier post saying it should work but is not tested, but I couldn't get it to work. I switched to XP 64 and Soft-15KHz works great; everything else is terrible though.

Thanks,
Paul
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 12, 2008, 01:23:46 pm
Has anyone managed to get this running under Vista 64. I saw an earlier post saying it should work but is not tested, but I couldn't get it to work. I switched to XP 64 and Soft-15KHz works great; everything else is terrible though.


I couldn't get soft15khz working in vista x64.  I don't think I've read a single post that said it works.  I don't think even SailorSat has tested it in vista x64.

BTW, what do you mean that everything else is terrible?  Some tests I ran showed that 64bit Vista and XP appear to perform about the same.


  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  CPU ------------------ Pentium4    E6300    E6300    E6300    E6300    E6300    E6300
  Clockspeed -----------     2.53     2.45     2.45     1.86     1.86     2.45     2.45
  OS Used --------------     XP32     XP32  Vista64     XP64     XP64     XP64     XP64
  MAME executable ------    32bit    32bit    64bit    32bit    64bit    32bit    64bit
  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Killer Instinct 2    -   143.2%   312.7%   365.7%   240.6%   276.7%    305.4%  358.0%
  Cruisin USA          -    55.4%   131.9%   139.8%    96.6%   108.2%    126.9%  138.5%
  Gauntlet Legends     -    30.1%    92.7%   107.6%    72.1%    82.8%     95.1%  106.5%
  Blitz 2k             -    27.9%    89.0%   101.9%    64.1%    72.8%     
  Gradius 4            -    19.2%    66.1%    75.4%    49.4%    58.7%     64.7%   76.0%
  Starblade            -    37.3%    89.3%    83.6%    68.8%    64.2%     89.8%   83.8%
  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 12, 2008, 05:06:45 pm


Ok, thanks for the reply, i guess running my monitor at 114hz when its spec is 40-90hz isnt good for it!?

I can't say. I would think that if the monitor can display it, it should be fine. I heard from bent98 that he was told by someone at Billabs that at least one person had a problem like you said above. If it was only one, who knows? User error is not uncommon, especially with this kind of hardware. If you're getting linearity issues at 15khz then I'd say your monitor isn't working properly, which is a bummer...although you might try Advancemame just to see if it displays via that differently.


Is it possible to add a 352x288 mode at 60hz?

Yes. Google 'modeline calculator'. Enter the above values in their respective places. Put the resulting modeline in a custom15khz.txt file. However, note that the scanrate will not, and CAN NOT, be 15khz. Your monitor may not be capable of this.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 12, 2008, 06:38:20 pm
Yes. Google 'modeline calculator'. Enter the above values in their respective places. Put the resulting modeline in a custom15khz.txt file. However, note that the scanrate will not, and CAN NOT, be 15khz. Your monitor may not be capable of this.


Ok i put modeline calculator in google and came up this this page a t the top of the search, http://xtiming.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/xtiming.pl, i just entered info in the, Visible Resolution boxes, 352x288 and in the refresh rate box, 60hz, and gave me the followin caculation,

Modeline "384x288@60" 8.75 384 416 448 480 288 294 297 303
Horizontal sync frequency: 18.22 kHz

Does that look correct?, would that mean then it would display in 25khz mode, as its saying its above 15khz??
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 13, 2008, 12:06:22 am
No, it would display in 18kHz mode, as it's too low for 25khz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 13, 2008, 06:30:01 am
so basically anything over the 15khz wont work, say 16.83khz?, that wouldnt work in 25khz either as its too low?? So you just have to keep lowering the refresh rate until you get it at 15khz?? So id need to lower the refresh rate as low as 52hz, to get a 15khz display....

Modeline "352x288@52" 6.97 352 384 408 440 288 294 297 303
 
Horizontal sync frequency: 15.84 kHz
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 13, 2008, 07:27:08 am
Sailor

an you tell me if you got a chance to test the usermodes functionality?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 13, 2008, 11:42:30 am
so basically anything over the 15khz wont work, say 16.83khz?, that wouldnt work in 25khz either as its too low?? So you just have to keep lowering the refresh rate until you get it at 15khz?? So id need to lower the refresh rate as low as 52hz, to get a 15khz display....

Modeline "352x288@52" 6.97 352 384 408 440 288 294 297 303
 
Horizontal sync frequency: 15.84 kHz

There are two kinds of "multisync" monitors. Those that can do 15, 25 and 31kHz. And those that can do 15 TO 31kHz.
The first won't work, but the later will.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 13, 2008, 11:44:49 am
an you tell me if you got a chance to test the usermodes functionality?

haven't tried yet, quite busy at work atm, but I found several small "bugs" in the ATI and NVidia implementation.
I'm finished for this week so I'll be ready with a new release same time tomorow :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 13, 2008, 04:41:42 pm
Thats great news.

Thanks for all your hard work and devotion to the project.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: scotthh on August 14, 2008, 11:05:46 am
I recently started using Soft-15, (ATI AIW 9000 Catalyst 8.22?).

With a jamma board, the image covers the entire screen.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=106610;image)

With the PC, I need to shrink the height of the image:

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=83106.0;attach=106605;image)

Otherwise the window becomes folded over itself:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=83106.0;attach=106606;image)

Because the jamma board displays properly, I don't think the monitor needs repair. According to this thread (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=68115.msg693064#msg693064) someone else had this problem due to the resolution in an arcade VGA card.  I'm thinking I might be able to change the display settings in the software to fix this?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on August 14, 2008, 11:53:09 am
it appears the screen res is set to large for the game and needs to be set a little smaller.

or your H and V size needs to be adjusted.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 14, 2008, 04:07:43 pm
http://files.arianchen.de/soft15khz/soft15khz.zip


B43 is out. Guys its time to test thoe multiple refresh usermodes
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 14, 2008, 04:43:23 pm
Well Salior it works! You can also select different refreshes in Mame UI for same resolution!!!

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 14, 2008, 05:13:28 pm
so basically anything over the 15khz wont work, say 16.83khz?, that wouldnt work in 25khz either as its too low?? So you just have to keep lowering the refresh rate until you get it at 15khz?? So id need to lower the refresh rate as low as 52hz, to get a 15khz display....

Modeline "352x288@52" 6.97 352 384 408 440 288 294 297 303
 
Horizontal sync frequency: 15.84 kHz


Seriously, if you want to explore this stuff, you need to read the wiki, and especially read easymamecab - a few times over.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 14, 2008, 08:29:12 pm
Now with usermodes working people might want to give these a whirl.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sorex on August 15, 2008, 11:14:23 am
just wondering...

I have a Xentor Maxi Gamer card lying around, and I found this scheme near the end of the page...

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?sitesize=yes&i=960

does this mean that 15KHz won't work on that one? as it only lists 31KHz or more modes?

Edit: just had a look at my cab and surprisingly it's not a 25 but 28" Hantarex Solo monitor :) didn't see a label with frequencies tho.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 15, 2008, 11:39:07 am
It's a TNT2 so it will work if you use an pretty old forceware.

It doesn't list any 15kHz modes as normal VGA monitor can't sync to them.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sorex on August 15, 2008, 11:46:46 am
you mean driver with forceware?

it's hopeful anyway, thanks for the good news! :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 15, 2008, 11:58:32 am
Yip.

Excatly this one -> http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_66.93.html <-
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sorex on August 15, 2008, 12:17:31 pm
Thanks, I'll try it out when my Jamma2PC board has arrived
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 16, 2008, 08:07:40 pm
I had a TNT2 that worked fine with soft15. Just as described at easymamcab (hardware section), it's a good, flexible card. Severaly underpowered for GPU stuff, though great for older/low budget mame computers.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sorex on August 18, 2008, 06:21:02 am
ok, got my host installed with XP and apparently it's by default using a RIVA TNT/TNT2 driver that comes with Windows,
should I leave it like that or should I install the one that Sailor pointed me at?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 18, 2008, 11:29:49 am
You actually must use it, as the default microsoft supplied drivers don`t work.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on August 19, 2008, 06:48:50 am
Hello,

Sorry if this has been asked several times but the thread is so long i must missed it or it isn't in.

Well i have a 6800LE i wanna try for this (allready have a arcadevga).
So if i use soft 15 on my machine does this mean i can use all resolutions provided by bent98 by renaming it to usermodes?

I have this monitor:
NEC MULTISYNC 4PG 29" Horizontal 15-50khz Vertical 40-120hz

What do i have to set in the mame.ini? Same settings as i had on arcadevga?
Do i need individual ini files for each game? (if not what settings needed for mame.ini)

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 19, 2008, 05:36:23 pm
Now with usermodes working people might want to give these a whirl.



So whats actually been fixed in this latest release then, i thought user modes worked fine?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 20, 2008, 06:13:00 pm
Hello,

Sorry if this has been asked several times but the thread is so long i must missed it or it isn't in.

Well i have a 6800LE i wanna try for this (allready have a arcadevga).
So if i use soft 15 on my machine does this mean i can use all resolutions provided by bent98 by renaming it to usermodes?

I have this monitor:
NEC MULTISYNC 4PG 29" Horizontal 15-50khz Vertical 40-120hz

What do i have to set in the mame.ini? Same settings as i had on arcadevga?
Do i need individual ini files for each game? (if not what settings needed for mame.ini)

Thanks

Experience, my boy. Install the card, load the resolutions, and play around with it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on August 21, 2008, 03:01:48 am
Hey Ummon,

Well i did. All resolutions work. Some are hideous and some look good.

So what is the approach to fine tune those resolutions?

Regards,
Jeffry
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 21, 2008, 09:46:04 am
Hey Ummon,

Well i did. All resolutions work. Some are hideous and some look good.

So what is the approach to fine tune those resolutions?

Regards,
Jeffry



Thats going to open up a can of worms.  :timebomb:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 21, 2008, 10:22:54 am
Any ETA on when CABmame 127 will be out Sailor?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 21, 2008, 11:26:27 am
CabMAME 0127? Yeah well let me grab some food, take a shower, and well yeah, guess it will be ready then :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 21, 2008, 12:57:26 pm
Could you complie one with core2duo & 64bit support?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 21, 2008, 01:53:29 pm
ok, 0.127 32bit (console and ui) is ready and being uploaded right now...
64bit will follow some time later (right now the 64bit dev rig is being WoW´ed xD)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 21, 2008, 02:41:48 pm
Sailor I got an error when I apply the frogger.diff
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 21, 2008, 03:16:24 pm
Well you'll need cleanstretch for it to work.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 21, 2008, 03:31:51 pm
I will test
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 21, 2008, 03:44:11 pm
I tried patching cleanstrech first then frogger.diff and same error. Are there any other .diffs that are needed for frogger.diff?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 21, 2008, 03:49:11 pm
I tried patching all other .diffs to test and frogger still errorred out.

I am ofcourse using a fresh mame 127 source when I do my testing
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 21, 2008, 04:52:13 pm
Try patching em in the right order (see the install-cabmame.bat)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 21, 2008, 05:59:19 pm
Ok Salior it worked, however I didnt want to apply those other .diffs to mame. Is there a minimum components I can install to get the frogger fix or I have to install all of the .diffs for it to work?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 22, 2008, 03:51:49 am
Hm... I think you'll need changeres AND cleanstretch, as all of these change the same functions in MAME.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 22, 2008, 10:46:20 am
SS, can you explain abit more about, Redraw hack, does it just double the refresh of all games, so 60hz games would run at 120hz?? If so what is the point of this?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 22, 2008, 11:21:06 am
*sigh* 1st, there are SOME games (don`t remember the name) that run on 30Hz, that need to be output doubled, and of course, for a 31kHz monitor, if you want to run 15khz modes, you need to double the output rate, so you output 120hz, but then all games run twice as fast. Thats why redraw can output each frame multiple times.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 22, 2008, 11:35:50 am
Yeah thats what i though. You might want to add a disclaimer with that diff hack then SS, as i have looked over the spec of 3 different monitor manafactures (Pentranic, MakVision, Betson) and none of them support over 90hz on the vertical frequency, they may display a mode at 120hz but it will just burn the monitor out over prolonged use. Just dont want people buggering there monitors  :angel:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 22, 2008, 12:01:18 pm
Hm... I think you'll need changeres AND cleanstretch, as all of these change the same functions in MAME.

That did the trick
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 22, 2008, 02:33:02 pm
Just dont want people buggering there monitors  :angel:

Sure... But you actualy must activate redraw to use it :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 22, 2008, 07:24:39 pm
Hey Ummon,

Well i did. All resolutions work. Some are hideous and some look good.

So what is the approach to fine tune those resolutions?

Regards,
Jeffry



Thats going to open up a can of worms.  :timebomb:

Hmh hmh hmh hmh hmh hmh. Jeffry, your description doesn't tell us what they look like, or if indeed you know what they're supposed to look like.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on August 22, 2008, 07:36:35 pm
Quote from: Ummon link=topic=66402.msg874342#msg874342

Hmh hmh hmh hmh hmh hmh. Jeffry, your description doesn't tell us what they look like, or if indeed you know what they're supposed to look like.

Agreed. Well they look ugly and when it looks ugly it looks like me ;)

So what i did what remove the custom list. After that i used the benson or whatever his name is tool from ultimarc to create the ini's and it stilll looked ugly.

I found out that mame.ini was still using d3d instead of ddraw
Setting ddraw everyting looked more realistic.

Right now i am using sailors formulas to get some better screens for pac man and dkong as tons of games run on these 2 resolutions. Since i am on nvidia i can only use a few extra resolutions instead of bents mega list.

I might have a few more questions while i am tweaking but for now i can manage.

so sorry for not being clear i guess.

Jeffry
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 23, 2008, 06:30:30 am
Ever wondered about the difference between RGB (maybe Component too) and a normal TV-Out (Composite)?

Well... Take a close look :)

(http://images.arianchen.de/TVvsRGB.png) (http://images.arianchen.de/TVvsRGB.png)

P.S. Yeah I know, pretty bad ass example ;)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on August 23, 2008, 07:56:07 am
What order do u have to apply the diif files in, if u want to complie yourself for cabmame?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sorex on August 23, 2008, 08:32:24 am
alright, my JammASD card arrived yesterday.

finished the host with the Xentor driver Sailor recommened and 15KHz installed.

but for some reason I get some flashy result, it looks like a duplicate or interlaced part appears 8+ pixels lower than the first picture.

I can't correct it with the 6 or 7 pots connected to the monitor.

The machine boots with 800x600, can't seem to select a lower one but I doubts that's the issue,
when I set the dip switch to 15/31 I can see the DOS screen buts it's like 4 or 6 times there instead of twice?

Feel free to move it to another thread if it doesn't belong here.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 23, 2008, 08:43:22 am
What order do u have to apply the diif files in, if u want to complie yourself for cabmame?

See the install-cabmame.bat file
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 23, 2008, 08:44:18 am
The machine boots with 800x600, can't seem to select a lower one but I doubts that's the issue,
when I set the dip switch to 15/31 I can see the DOS screen buts it's like 4 or 6 times there instead of twice?

Feel free to move it to another thread if it doesn't belong here.

Hm... Try using Quickres to turn down the resolution.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sorex on August 23, 2008, 11:01:17 am
it seems to be some kind of problem with resolution splitting for the tube (600 or 480 convertion to 256?) and pot settings.

I can get it quite steady on 600x400 or 640x480 but then the text is unreadable as you only see odd or even lines
it reads fine when you let the screen scroll a bit.

when forced to 321x256 it's as steady as a rock :)

I guess this is a common resolution for most classic & neo-geo games?


Notice that I lose some pixels at the top tho, it's not stretched outside the screen but the monitor's settings tho, checked that already.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 23, 2008, 11:20:04 am
You should use 321x240 as your "centering" resolution, as it covers all other 240 line modes, as well as the 480 line modes.

As for the interlaced resolutions... Well yeah it differs from screen to screen, but most arcade games run in 240 lines progressive, so it doesn`t matter at all.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sorex on August 23, 2008, 03:05:16 pm
ok, thanks for the tip but when using (an old) mame32 (the one with the build in menu) I seem to lose parts of the screen at the bottom.

using one of the other modes brings it back, maybe it's mame32 that not keeping my original resolution altho I disabled mode and aspect ratio switching.

male start in some 16 color mode it seems but way higher resolution than my 320x240 and the text is unreadable small
games run in wrong modes aswell (1942 turns out purple & green instead of gray)

I guess I need to mess around with it some more but it's kinda hard at 320x240 as most setup forms are bigger than that screen size  :-\
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 23, 2008, 05:12:42 pm
SailorSat, if you don't mind me asking... what do you do for a living?  Is it in a related field?


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 23, 2008, 05:39:07 pm
SailorSat, if you don't mind me asking... what do you do for a living?  Is it in a related field?

Hehe, well I'm working as an electrician at a local company.
But that sounds way more "special" as it is... Just swaping defective lights or replacing power cords on various equipment.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on August 24, 2008, 12:08:49 pm
SailorSat, if you don't mind me asking... what do you do for a living?  Is it in a related field?

Hehe, well I'm working as an electrician at a local company.
But that sounds way more "special" as it is... Just swaping defective lights or replacing power cords on various equipment.

I doubt those are your only responsibilities!  Maybe you write all the system drivers for SAP!


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 24, 2008, 07:48:44 pm
Ever wondered about the difference between RGB (maybe Component too) and a normal TV-Out (Composite)?

Well... Take a close look :)

(http://images.arianchen.de/TVvsRGB.png) (http://images.arianchen.de/TVvsRGB.png)

P.S. Yeah I know, pretty bad ass example ;)

What was your set-up that produced these and how did you get screenshots?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on August 26, 2008, 09:58:37 pm
got it up and running, looks great except for some flickering, I cant seem to make any adjustmenrs to get rid of it. Also, the text looks kinda awful under windows unless I pick some tiny resolution, which Id be fine with if it werent for MAME32.

Speakin of, most games look fine (except for the blurred text thingie mentioned above) except MKII, it kinda looks crappy on the select screen and again the picture flickers a little.  IS this because I tied the  H and V syncs together? would I be better off pinning the V sync separate?

Im still super impressed!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 27, 2008, 01:28:45 am
Depends on your monitor and graphics card combination.
Some monitors flicker more than others and various cards output interlace different than others. (Especially many really old cards used to flicker)

Sadly there's no adjustment for the interlace flicker, and it won't help to seperate the sync lines either.

Please note that the "highres" modes (i.e. everything with more than 400 lines) do work fine with emulation, videos etc., but are not suitable to work with text for a longer time.

I'd use a good frontend or a larger font in MAME32.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on August 27, 2008, 03:58:10 am
HI,
I am completely new to this so be gentle.
I am trying to get my pc to output to a philips 21" tv (pal)
I currently have onboard graphics (intel) and a ATI Rage II PCI (4mb I think).
When i load up soft 15khz it doesnt support the card?
I have tried about a dozen other applications to try to get the pc to output to 15khz with no success.
I think I need a new graphics card and was wondering what is the best option for me?
I will be running mame through windows (XP), I won't be running through dos.
I won't be using the pc for anything else.
I need the cheapest option available.
Thanks,
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on August 27, 2008, 04:16:36 am
Now with usermodes working people might want to give these a whirl.

Wow and thanks.
Will soft-15KHz really "Eat" all these custom resolutions also with nvidia cards? I remember that there was a limit.

Sailorsat, I think the non-plus-ultra feature this software can have, is a tool like "ADVV" (Advance Project) to set custom resolutions and test/save them "on the fly". Do you think it will be possible?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 27, 2008, 07:35:33 am
HI,
I am completely new to this so be gentle.
I am trying to get my pc to output to a philips 21" tv (pal)
I currently have onboard graphics (intel) and a ATI Rage II PCI (4mb I think).

Hm... Depends on the Onboard Intel, but the Rage2 isn`t support for sure.
I think you should look for a ATI Radeon 9200 or something like that.



Will soft-15KHz really "Eat" all these custom resolutions also with nvidia cards? I remember that there was a limit.

Sailorsat, I think the non-plus-ultra feature this software can have, is a tool like "ADVV" (Advance Project) to set custom resolutions and test/save them "on the fly". Do you think it will be possible?
Hm... NVidia cards (still) have a 32 mode limit.

As for live testing... Well I though about forcing windows to "reload" the drivers, but I don`t know for sure how to do that yet.
Various "Tweaking Tools" have such a feature (RiveTuner for example).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on August 27, 2008, 10:18:23 am
Sailorsat, I think the non-plus-ultra feature this software can have, is a tool like "ADVV" (Advance Project) to set custom resolutions and test/save them "on the fly". Do you think it will be possible?
As for live testing... Well I though about forcing windows to "reload" the drivers, but I don`t know for sure how to do that yet.
Various "Tweaking Tools" have such a feature (RiveTuner for example).
But with RivaTuner I can't save the changes on the custom.txt, right?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 27, 2008, 10:39:19 am
Thats not the point, I want to change the registry, then reset the driver so it can show the "new" modes from the registry instantly.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 27, 2008, 01:50:36 pm
To a complete different topic

What do all nvidia forceware drivers (okay I tested only 4 from 78.01 to 163.xx) in common?

They clear a 2944 byte area just before reading "CUST_MODE" from the registry.
Just need to try what happens if I change the buffer size!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on August 27, 2008, 03:28:45 pm
so should I uninstall soft then update my drivers? I think Im using an older version of the nvidia drivers.

And how do I add custom  resolutions/refreshes? the point of using the arcadde monitor was for arcade resolutions (like for Mortal Kombat and stuff)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 27, 2008, 04:35:55 pm
When you install soft15khz you'll get plenty of custom resolutions. For anything else, take a look in the FAQ section linked in my sig.

As for the buffer... Well, It doesn't work the way I want. Still only works with up to 32 resolutions on nvidia :(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on August 27, 2008, 05:49:24 pm
Still only works with up to 32 resolutions on nvidia :(

Can't this be hacked?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on August 27, 2008, 08:46:33 pm
Salior

any progress with getting soft 15 to work with vista 64?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 28, 2008, 12:06:44 am
Can't this be hacked?
Sure. But I don't have the required skills. Took quite some time to find that stupid buffer.



any progress with getting soft 15 to work with vista 64?
Nope. Didn't even try to yet.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on August 29, 2008, 04:38:38 am
After days of trying to find a shop that still sells normal PCI and AGP cards (not PCI-E)
I found somewhere that stocks the follwing cards..

Sapphire Radeon 7000 pci 64mb
Sapphire Radeon 9250 pci 128 mb

Peak Grahics Radeon 7000 tv 64mb AGP
Asus Graphics Geforce 6200 128mb AGP

I am not sire which one to buy to suit outputting to a pal TV using either a vga to scart cable or S-video.

Any suggestions.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 29, 2008, 05:45:38 am
I'd recommend the 9250 PCI
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on August 29, 2008, 06:57:49 am
Thanks I will buy that one.
Could you give me a second recommendation in case that one is not in stock.
Cheers.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 30, 2008, 06:41:57 pm
I'd look at ebay. Much better selection, and likely much better price. Also, if you can, get AGP. I think it's a toss-up between the 9250 pci and the 7000 AGP simply because of bus speed for each interface.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on August 31, 2008, 06:38:31 am
I'd look at ebay. Much better selection, and likely much better price. Also, if you can, get AGP. I think it's a toss-up between the 9250 pci and the 7000 AGP simply because of bus speed for each interface.

No he should get pci.
Pci fits all motherboards so you can use it on all types.

With agp you are bound to agp motherboards and if you wish to go quad or dual core you are doomed and have to buy a new video card.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on September 01, 2008, 11:25:42 am
In order to use new resolutions, in wich directory have I to put the custom15khz.txt, custom25khz.txt, custom31khz.txt or usermodes.txt?

I have "C:\Soft-15KHz\soft15khz.exe".
Same directory for custom files?
If I change or add new resolutions in the "custom15khz.txt" for example, how can I get it running? Have I to do something particular?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on September 01, 2008, 11:55:09 am
In order to use new resolutions, in wich directory have I to put the custom15khz.txt, custom25khz.txt, custom31khz.txt or usermodes.txt?

I have "C:\Soft-15KHz\soft15khz.exe".
Same directory for custom files?
If I change or add new resolutions in the "custom15khz.txt" for example, how can I get it running? Have I to do something particular?

Yes in the same directory. Run soft15khz.exe and hit the uninstall button.
hit the 15khz button and your new lines are added after reboot.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Jimbo on September 01, 2008, 05:49:22 pm
Anyone tried this tool with a Radeon 4850 PCIe card?

Cheers  :cheers:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 01, 2008, 06:28:31 pm
I'd look at ebay. Much better selection, and likely much better price. Also, if you can, get AGP. I think it's a toss-up between the 9250 pci and the 7000 AGP simply because of bus speed for each interface.

No he should get pci.
Pci fits all motherboards so you can use it on all types.

With agp you are bound to agp motherboards and if you wish to go quad or dual core you are doomed and have to buy a new video card.

??-?-?? If you're going new, either a) try to find a PCIe card that works with soft15, or b) don't use this program/don't do native. PCI is such a lame bus speed - even PIIs often have AGP. Maybe you're confusing PCI with PCIe?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on September 02, 2008, 02:49:11 am
Maybe you're confusing PCI with PCIe?

No i am not , you do not need alot of bus speed for mame games. It's not graphical intensive. You need cpu and memory but i probabby do not have to tell you this.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on September 02, 2008, 06:16:33 am
In order to use new resolutions, in wich directory have I to put the custom15khz.txt, custom25khz.txt, custom31khz.txt or usermodes.txt?

I have "C:\Soft-15KHz\soft15khz.exe".
Same directory for custom files?
If I change or add new resolutions in the "custom15khz.txt" for example, how can I get it running? Have I to do something particular?

Yes in the same directory. Run soft15khz.exe and hit the uninstall button.
hit the 15khz button and your new lines are added after reboot.


Ok, thanks.
If in the "custom15khz.txt" I add a mode that's already in the built in resolutions, how it works?
How the "different refresh rates" for a same resolution works?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 02, 2008, 06:18:11 am
If in the "custom15khz.txt" I add a mode that's already in the built in resolutions, how it works?
It will override the old one.

How the "different refresh rates" for a same resolution works?
The same way, just use "usermodes.txt" instead of "custom15khz.txt".

(And install "USER" modes in Soft-15kHz)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on September 02, 2008, 06:41:27 am
How the "different refresh rates" for a same resolution works?
The same way, just use "usermodes.txt" instead of "custom15khz.txt".

(And install "USER" modes in Soft-15kHz)
Thank you for your explanations.

If I hit "install USER modes" will it add modes to the builted in or will it only use modes in the "usermodes.txt"?

If I use an ArcadeVGA, can I add resoltutions with this method?

After that procedure, I can choose the different refresh rates from mame, but not from avres tool right?

How a "standard" emulator chooses between 2 same resolutions with different refresh rates?

Thanks for your patience.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 02, 2008, 07:52:19 am
If I hit "install USER modes" will it add modes to the builted in or will it only use modes in the "usermodes.txt"?
Nope, there are no built-in usermodes.
However if you hit Install 15kHz and then hit Install Usermodes, it will install both.

If I use an ArcadeVGA, can I add resoltutions with this method?
No.

After that procedure, I can choose the different refresh rates from mame, but not from avres tool right?
Well yeah, as the AVRES tool does not take refresh rates into account.

How a "standard" emulator chooses between 2 same resolutions with different refresh rates?
Most (if not all) emulators use 60Hz modes. Some (like WinUAE) let you select the refresh rate as well.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 03, 2008, 08:36:35 am
So I have some news on NVidia @ Vista.

It seems NVidia changed the driver structure completely, but I've allready figured out most of it, though it seems NVidia is still limited to 32 custom modes.

Right now I need to install a Vista System to try some stuff.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on September 03, 2008, 08:57:26 am

 though it seems NVidia is still limited to 32 custom modes.


CRAP!

But great you are on track for the vista drivers.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on September 03, 2008, 10:49:58 am
I'd look at ebay. Much better selection, and likely much better price. Also, if you can, get AGP. I think it's a toss-up between the 9250 pci and the 7000 AGP simply because of bus speed for each interface.

No he should get pci.
Pci fits all motherboards so you can use it on all types.

With agp you are bound to agp motherboards and if you wish to go quad or dual core you are doomed and have to buy a new video card.

yeah but to get a $18.00 low end card and put it in a duel or quad core would be pretty silly and defeat the whole purpose of having a high end pc of today that is graphic limited up to the late 90's  :dunno

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 03, 2008, 10:56:17 am
The flip side of the coin is that most "high end" cards (HD2400 and never ATI, and GeForce 8 series and later) don't work that good with low resolutions.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 03, 2008, 04:16:36 pm
I'd look at ebay. Much better selection, and likely much better price. Also, if you can, get AGP. I think it's a toss-up between the 9250 pci and the 7000 AGP simply because of bus speed for each interface.

No he should get pci.
Pci fits all motherboards so you can use it on all types.

With agp you are bound to agp motherboards and if you wish to go quad or dual core you are doomed and have to buy a new video card.

yeah but to get a $18.00 low end card and put it in a duel or quad core would be pretty silly and defeat the whole purpose of having a high end pc of today that is graphic limited up to the late 90's  :dunno



Yeah, what he said!


The flip side of the coin is that most "high end" cards (HD2400 and never ATI, and GeForce 8 series and later) don't work that good with low resolutions.

Never ATI, huh?  Heheh. Depends on how new, vs high-end. PCIe is not a brand new interface, and there's no reason not to get a card that is PCIe, as many work just fine with soft15.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on September 03, 2008, 09:03:11 pm
Sailor, Have you tested the Nvidia 260x/280x or ATI 4870's yet?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 04, 2008, 03:52:30 am
Nope. I simply don't have the money to get new cards every month :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on September 04, 2008, 10:44:00 am
LOL


I wasn't expecting your to buy those cards. I was just wondering if you knew anyone who tested it with them.

I hope the ATI 4870x2 works. That card should be future proof for a while .
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on September 04, 2008, 12:41:23 pm
This is more of a cabmame questions but check this out.



I found this in the whatsnew.txt included with latest Mame 127u2:

Changed refreshspeed target to 0.25Hz below rate provided, in order to
guarantee that inexact timings do not lead to sound stuttering.
[Aaron Giles]

Wondering if this fixes issue with sound stuttering with tripple buffering enabled??

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 05, 2008, 07:21:47 pm
You didn't try it?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on September 06, 2008, 07:42:53 am
HI,
I am completely new to this so be gentle.
I am trying to get my pc to output to a philips 21" tv (pal)
I currently have onboard graphics (intel) and a ATI Rage II PCI (4mb I think).
When i load up soft 15khz it doesnt support the card?
I have tried about a dozen other applications to try to get the pc to output to 15khz with no success.
I think I need a new graphics card and was wondering what is the best option for me?
I will be running mame through windows (XP), I won't be running through dos.
I won't be using the pc for anything else.
I need the cheapest option available.
Thanks,






Finally got the card, went for the radeon saphhire 9250 128mb.
I used the svideo out and it worked on the tv once I plugged it in so I didnt need the vga to scart cable I bought.
The list og games looks terrible in mamui32 and the actual games are not as clear as the pc monitor I was using but I am happy enough as it looks more like I remember it in the arcade. Is there anything I can do to improve the way the games list works in Mameui32? ad anything to improve the games, they look a little bit blurry and there is some shadowing around any text and some of the sprites.
I was trying a command line mame with mamewah but just couldnt get the config right.
Thanks all for the advice on the card.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 06, 2008, 08:21:02 am
If you are using S-Video then there is no way to improve the image as you are basically stuck with the 640x480 image the tvout is providing.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on September 11, 2008, 05:19:45 am
Thanks for the reply.
I still have the VGA to Scart cable I bought, is there anything I can do with this maybe using soft 15khz?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 11, 2008, 11:30:25 am
Well yeah thats the whole point of Soft-15kHz :)
Install it, plug in your VGA-to-SCART (I really doubtfull on this one, as I don't believe there are any VGA-to-SCART cables in any shop, because most of them are SCART-to-VGA, which is a different pinout) into your VGA card, and the SCART plug into your TV.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 11, 2008, 07:22:01 pm
Wouldn't it be VGA to SCART, as that is the direction of signal?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 12, 2008, 04:23:32 am
Most of those cables I saw in shops are to connect DVD Players (which with SCART) to a beamer (with VGA).

Those cables don't work without rewireing
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on September 12, 2008, 06:33:46 am
This is the one I bought?
I assume its ok to send a link to it?
Will I need to rewire and if so is there a guide somewhere?
Thanks for all the help.

http://cgi.ebay.ie/2m-SCART-LEAD-TO-15-PIN-HD-VGA-CABLE-to-LCD-TV-DVD-2m_W0QQitemZ380062644950QQihZ025QQcategoryZ41999QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.ie/2m-SCART-LEAD-TO-15-PIN-HD-VGA-CABLE-to-LCD-TV-DVD-2m_W0QQitemZ380062644950QQihZ025QQcategoryZ41999QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 12, 2008, 07:12:29 am
Try it, but I fear the cable will have the wrong pinout.

If you need a Pinout check http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=9365 .
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on September 12, 2008, 08:00:37 am
Hey Salior

A while back you said you may work on a tool similiar to AVRes that will create modelines based off games and monitor specs. Are you or do you have any plans to do that?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 12, 2008, 08:16:38 am
That didn't work out too well. Haven't looked at it for quite a while.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on September 12, 2008, 09:12:52 am
ok, so I love your program , it is the cat's meow.  The ONLY games I have graphical faults with is the midway games. MKII looks the worst, Im lookin for my camera so I can post a pic. 

ok so I cant seem to take a good picture, but I think it has something to do with MK refreshing at 53 instead of 60. it looks like Lui Kang has 2 sets of eyes.

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=108370;image)

its more obvious in person then in the picture.
What res should I try to run MK at? I was using 401x256 (?)



Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 12, 2008, 09:17:34 am
Actually 401x256 is output at 53Hz.

Are you using default MAME or cabMAME? Direct3D or DirectDraw? Questions over Questions.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on September 12, 2008, 09:53:06 am
mame32 (stop laughing) happens with D3D and Direct Draw.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 12, 2008, 10:31:48 am
Hm... Can't tell from a distance sorry. I'm pretty clueless right now.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on September 13, 2008, 07:12:08 am
Has there been any results posted using a ATI 3400 series card?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 13, 2008, 05:26:38 pm
mame32 (stop laughing) happens with D3D and Direct Draw.

 MK and MKII run at 15khz - it's just that their refresh is not standard. That doesn't look like 15khz to me. You HAVE to set it to DDraw to function properly, with hardware stretch off, effects off. You may want to post your ini.


This is the one I bought?
I assume its ok to send a link to it?
Will I need to rewire and if so is there a guide somewhere?
Thanks for all the help.

http://cgi.ebay.ie/2m-SCART-LEAD-TO-15-PIN-HD-VGA-CABLE-to-LCD-TV-DVD-2m_W0QQitemZ380062644950QQihZ025QQcategoryZ41999QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.ie/2m-SCART-LEAD-TO-15-PIN-HD-VGA-CABLE-to-LCD-TV-DVD-2m_W0QQitemZ380062644950QQihZ025QQcategoryZ41999QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Post in the SCART thread below this one. They'll be able to better help.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on September 13, 2008, 08:30:31 pm
i messed around ALOT with various settings (with some help from northerngames)

I think I found a resolution I like BETTER then 401x256
the mame cab is off now, but its the one right below it 392x240(?)


this is 401x256:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=108572;image)
notice the bar thingie at the bottom of the screen?

heres MKII running on the other one (392x240 I think):
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=108574;image)

I know a little of the top is cut off better then that thign at the bottom; Im still tweaking it. both resolutions looks leaps and bounds better then the VGA that was in Mortal Kabinet.

Thoughts, ideas?


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 15, 2008, 07:00:11 pm
Hmmm. I haven't had this issue with that game. The latter resolution makes sense, as you're getting less lines drawn, but the the top image is some kind of distortion. What monitor is this on?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on September 15, 2008, 10:26:29 pm
Hmmm. I haven't had this issue with that game. The latter resolution makes sense, as you're getting less lines drawn, but the the top image is some kind of distortion. What monitor is this on?

27K7391
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 17, 2008, 08:17:07 pm
I'm not that familiar with WGs. Some more info on it?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on September 17, 2008, 11:32:32 pm
MK 2

(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj70/northerngames/mk2.jpg)

400X254 (H) 53.204948 HZ

video options from tab

standard (4:3)

pixel aspect (200:127)

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on September 18, 2008, 08:56:09 am
MK 2

(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj70/northerngames/mk2.jpg)

400X254 (H) 53.204948 HZ

video options from tab

standard (4:3)

pixel aspect (200:127)


thats perfect, I manually went in and changed all the 399x243 resolutions to 400x254 and they all look gorgeous without the crazy bar thing. I cant take a picture because of the glare right now but expect one tonight.  Soft 15 needs its own sub section.  26 pages for a thread is redonkulous :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on September 18, 2008, 08:42:38 pm
Soft 15 needs its own sub section.  26 pages for a thread is redonkulous :)


Maybe not it's own section ... but maybe to separate video/monitor issues between physical problems with monitors vs look & feel/drivers, etc?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on September 19, 2008, 10:02:27 am
Soft 15 needs its own sub section.  26 pages for a thread is redonkulous :)


Maybe not it's own section ... but maybe to separate video/monitor issues between physical problems with monitors vs look & feel/drivers, etc?

I started a thread in the website feedback section =)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 19, 2008, 08:11:57 pm
MK 2

(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj70/northerngames/mk2.jpg)

400X254 (H) 53.204948 HZ

video options from tab

standard (4:3)

pixel aspect (200:127)


thats perfect, I manually went in and changed all the 399x243 resolutions to 400x254 and they all look gorgeous without the crazy bar thing. I cant take a picture because of the glare right now but expect one tonight.  Soft 15 needs its own sub section.  26 pages for a thread is redonkulous :)

Hmmm. So you had to create that mode. Mine works fine with 401x256, though I'll keep that one in mind. As long as it works.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on September 19, 2008, 10:12:36 pm
it should work better then yours as it is the correct and original size for the originals machines.

to get the best display set them for what they were made for originally.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 21, 2008, 04:57:40 pm
it should work better then yours as it is the correct and original size for the originals machines.

to get the best display set them for what they were made for originally.

This to me or him? Incidentally, I use Advancemame so it gets done for me, but if I use soft15 in the future, I'll keep this one in mind if necessary.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on September 21, 2008, 10:29:08 pm
Both actually.

 I use mamefx with mamewah and don't know anything about advancemame.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on September 22, 2008, 01:01:26 pm
Sailor

I really would like to upgrade to Vista 64 on my cab. The only thing holding me back is soft 15khz not working in htis enviroement.

Sailor can you tell me if this is something tha can be fixed in the near future?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 22, 2008, 01:42:04 pm
Maybe, maybe not.
Last time I've tinkered with Vista I got pretty pissed :)
So don't expect anything in the near future.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on September 22, 2008, 06:54:14 pm
Sailor

I really would like to upgrade to Vista 64 on my cab. The only thing holding me back is soft 15khz not working in htis enviroement.

Sailor can you tell me if this is something tha can be fixed in the near future?


Just use XP x64.  Runs mame 64bit just as fast and soft15khz works great on it.


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: muzzakus on September 23, 2008, 11:59:37 pm
G'day.  What a great time to be into the Mamecab scene.  First and foremost I must say, fantastic work Sailor for bringing true arcade quality output to the masses!

Couple of questions for the thread :

- Does anybody have a 1:1 pixel and refresh mode for Rtype? - and how did you derive it?

- Are there any pro's and cons in generating modes with LRMC?  I have played with it to some degree using the following commandline (lrmc x y refresh -cga -l)  where -cga enables 15khz and -l enables low pixel clock generation so as not to double the rez. 

Is LRMC the defacto standard, or at least a more than suitable generator?  The resason I say this I have attempted generating some modes already present as default in soft15khz and the results are not the same.

- How is this mode derived 401 256 53Hz (Mortal Kombat etc)
?  I cannot get anything anywhere near 53hz for that resolution using calculation. 

- I'm also getting crap geometry onscreen, a lens type effect where the further you get from the center of the screen, the wider things get...it's like projecting a picture onto a chinese wok.  Are there any fundamental differences between a true arcade board and a 15khz Vga output?  Can this geometry issue be overcome by tweaked modelines? - or is it simply a chassis/tube issue and replacement is the only solution.

Thanks for the input.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on September 24, 2008, 08:05:54 am
Sailor

I really would like to upgrade to Vista 64 on my cab. The only thing holding me back is soft 15khz not working in htis enviroement.

Sailor can you tell me if this is something tha can be fixed in the near future?


Just use XP x64.  Runs mame 64bit just as fast and soft15khz works great on it.





Some of my mobo drivers have issues with XP 64.

Sailor

 :notworthy: please say you will look into it further.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on September 24, 2008, 11:31:20 am
Sailor

I really would like to upgrade to Vista 64 on my cab. The only thing holding me back is soft 15khz not working in htis enviroement.

Sailor can you tell me if this is something tha can be fixed in the near future?


Just use XP x64.  Runs mame 64bit just as fast and soft15khz works great on it.





Some of my mobo drivers have issues with XP 64.

Sailor

 :notworthy: please say you will look into it further.

check to see if there is any updated drivers for it or your bios if possible.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 25, 2008, 08:05:56 pm
G'day.  What a great time to be into the Mamecab scene.  First and foremost I must say, fantastic work Sailor for bringing true arcade quality output to the masses!

Couple of questions for the thread :

- Does anybody have a 1:1 pixel and refresh mode for Rtype? - and how did you derive it?

- Are there any pro's and cons in generating modes with LRMC?  I have played with it to some degree using the following commandline (lrmc x y refresh -cga -l)  where -cga enables 15khz and -l enables low pixel clock generation so as not to double the rez. 

Is LRMC the defacto standard, or at least a more than suitable generator?  The resason I say this I have attempted generating some modes already present as default in soft15khz and the results are not the same.

- How is this mode derived 401 256 53Hz (Mortal Kombat etc)
?  I cannot get anything anywhere near 53hz for that resolution using calculation. 

- I'm also getting crap geometry onscreen, a lens type effect where the further you get from the center of the screen, the wider things get...it's like projecting a picture onto a chinese wok.  Are there any fundamental differences between a true arcade board and a 15khz Vga output?  Can this geometry issue be overcome by tweaked modelines? - or is it simply a chassis/tube issue and replacement is the only solution.

Thanks for the input.

For R-Type I think I've just used 384x288. Or you can calculate your own that is more specifically 384x256.

Yes, there are at least two different calculation formats or whatever. The answer I got from SS was that it was arbitrary which one you wanted to use.

For MK, unless you're really curious about it's workings, just use whichever one - stock or your own - that works best on your set-up.

Weird geometry: if you're getting that on all games, especially common standard res ones like 256x224 then I'd guess it's a monitor issue.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on September 26, 2008, 05:16:14 am
I am having some issues on 1024x768.

When i install soft15khz and do all modes my 1024x768 is on screen vertical double the size as normal.
My monitor can handle this with no 15khz but with it installed it is stretched vertically???

What can i do to change this?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: muzzakus on September 26, 2008, 09:53:04 am
For R-Type I think I've just used 384x288. Or you can calculate your own that is more specifically 384x256.

Yes, there are at least two different calculation formats or whatever. The answer I got from SS was that it was arbitrary which one you wanted to use.

For MK, unless you're really curious about it's workings, just use whichever one - stock or your own - that works best on your set-up.

Weird geometry: if you're getting that on all games, especially common standard res ones like 256x224 then I'd guess it's a monitor issue.

Thanks for the heads up.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 27, 2008, 07:34:04 pm

Thanks for the heads up.

Sho.



I am having some issues on 1024x768.

When i install soft15khz and do all modes my 1024x768 is on screen vertical double the size as normal.
My monitor can handle this with no 15khz but with it installed it is stretched vertically???

What can i do to change this?

You need to do two things. Look back at the soft15 page and understand how the stock resolutions work, particularly with regard to 'VGA' resolutions. Two, read through the thread to find custom VGA resolutions.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 28, 2008, 09:18:34 am
:notworthy: please say you will look into it further.

Must be a weak day ;)
Actually I just "cracked" the new nvidia-vista data format, however I need to rewrite some parts of the program for vista so stay tuned.
Also, Matrox on Windows98 should be possible soon (however I doubt anyone will use it).

*EDIT*
Nevermind, doesn't work yet :(

*EDIT2*
(http://images.arianchen.de/nvidia_vista.png) (http://images.arianchen.de/nvidia_vista.png)
At least the ForceWare shows the timing details, however they still output in 31kHz :(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on September 28, 2008, 12:35:00 pm
Thats great news Sailor. Heep trying.
What about ATI drivers in Vista 64?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 28, 2008, 12:44:33 pm
Well actually I got a simple problem with ATI as I don't have any ATI Card that fits my Vista rig AND is supported by the Vista Catalyst :(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on September 28, 2008, 09:08:52 pm
doh!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on September 29, 2008, 03:14:51 am
You need to do two things. Look back at the soft15 page and understand how the stock resolutions work, particularly with regard to 'VGA' resolutions. Two, read through the thread to find custom VGA resolutions.

Did that long time ago. Otherwise i would not asked the question in the first place if the awnser was there.

The line below from sailor says:
Quote
It does this by doing small changes to the windows registry to add typical arcade screen resolutions, as well as tweaking some existing ones, and locking out all others

Locking out others how do i get these back?

I know i can add something to custom text (not the 15khz or others as they default to 60Hz) but if i add my own mode line it is still Stretched.

Let me be more clear on what i mean by stretched.
With no 15khz tool my 1024x768 picture looks like this:

__________________
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|_________________|

Now with 15khz it looks like this and if i move my mouse up and down it will scroll along with me

__________________
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|                                  |
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|_________________|

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 29, 2008, 06:16:24 am
Locking out others how do i get these back?

Now with 15khz it looks like this and if i move my mouse up and down it will scroll along with me

ATI or NVidia?
Normaly I'd say just enter "Modeline '1024x768@60' 64.56 1024 1056 1296 1328 768 783 791 807 -hsync -vsync" in Custom31kHz.txt

Please note that this is a 48kHz Mode so be sure your monitor does support it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on September 29, 2008, 06:34:31 am
Locking out others how do i get these back?

Now with 15khz it looks like this and if i move my mouse up and down it will scroll along with me

ATI or NVidia?
Normaly I'd say just enter "Modeline '1024x768@60' 64.56 1024 1056 1296 1328 768 783 791 807 -hsync -vsync" in Custom31kHz.txt

Please note that this is a 48kHz Mode so be sure your monitor does support it.

I have ati it is an x1950 pro (i really reccomend one). My monitor supports 15-50kHz
I will try this modeline tonight.
Thx p.s. donation made ;)

Regards,
Jeffry
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 29, 2008, 09:43:40 am
My monitor supports 15-50kHz
Wow! Nice one :)

Thx p.s. donation made ;)
Thanks!

What about ATI drivers in Vista 64?
I just noticed, my Radeon 9600 actually IS supported :)

(Pile of VGA cards = HELL :D)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on September 29, 2008, 10:09:03 am
You need to do two things. Look back at the soft15 page and understand how the stock resolutions work, particularly with regard to 'VGA' resolutions. Two, read through the thread to find custom VGA resolutions.

Did that long time ago. Otherwise i would not asked the question in the first place if the awnser was there.

The line below from sailor says:
Quote
It does this by doing small changes to the windows registry to add typical arcade screen resolutions, as well as tweaking some existing ones, and locking out all others

Locking out others how do i get these back?

I know i can add something to custom text (not the 15khz or others as they default to 60Hz) but if i add my own mode line it is still Stretched.

Let me be more clear on what i mean by stretched.
With no 15khz tool my 1024x768 picture looks like this:

__________________
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|                                  |
|                                  |
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|                                  |
|_________________|

Now with 15khz it looks like this and if i move my mouse up and down it will scroll along with me

__________________
|                                  |
|                                  |
|                                  |
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|                                  |
|                                  |
|                                  |
|                                  |
|                                  |
|_________________|



are you running it at that res for a game or your desktop?

even with the arcadevga the 1024X768 must pan up/down on the desktop or windows and is stretched also.

I also run a X1950 pro but just wondering what your trying to do running 1024X768 in 15K mode is all.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 29, 2008, 10:20:06 am
He's not trying to use it in 15kHz.
He wants to output it as 48khz as it should be, as his monitor supports both.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on September 29, 2008, 10:28:25 am
He's not trying to use it in 15kHz.
He wants to output it as 48khz as it should be, as his monitor supports both.

exactly ;) 8)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 29, 2008, 11:04:01 am
Ok... Consider VISTA a No-Go for now.
The BIG drivers (Catalyst and ForceWare) seem to have the same problems, but I'll go into details later.
As for now, I don't see any workaround.
If anyone has a GOOD idea, then well, speak on :)



Facts:

- NVidia Vista support will be added in the next release. (31kHz and higher)
- ATI support actually works fine as it is for 31kHz and higher.
- Matrox will be looked into at a later point.



Problems:

1. They don't add the resolution as I want them to.
If I add "640x480i" as "640x480@60Hz", Windows will show up 60Hz (VGA default) and 30Hz Interlace (or 12Hz on NVidia for some unknown reason)
The first (60Hz) will output 60Hz Progressive (31kHz - VGA), the second (30Hz) will output 60Hz Interlaced (15kHz - CGA).
( There has to be said the same happens with the current PowerStrip which itself claims to have Vista 64 support, so I think its not a bug on my side )


2. All of them seem to drop "non-power of 8"-modes, as I can't add 321 pixel modes (or 641 ones).


3. For some reason, these 30Hz (and lower) modes don't show up in DirectX.
You can only select them via the Display Properties.
MAME and other emulators won't see them (and therefore won't use them), even if you force these resolutions.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 29, 2008, 08:50:57 pm
Twin-X, notice it says in the stock set 31khz modes are interlace. As well, very early on SS posted that XGA mode. So you missed both these.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on September 30, 2008, 08:53:08 am
I am wondering does Powerstrip work with Vista? Also did those AVGA vista drivers ever come out?

Trying to understand if this is a limitation or just need to find a solution for this.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 30, 2008, 09:06:03 am
Hm, afaik there are AVGA drivers for Vista 32bit.

As for Powerstrip, yeah it works, but has the same limitations.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on September 30, 2008, 10:58:28 am
I just want to clarify something. This limitation so far is for both Vista 32 and 64 or just 64 bit version.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on September 30, 2008, 11:31:06 am
what would you choose SailorSat ?

i have 2 cards laying around

ati HD 2600 XT 512mb pcie passive
nvidia geforce 8600 Gt 512Mb pcie passive

will be using it through vga - > scart RGB kabel i made with your tutorial on a sony 25 inch trinitron flatscreen

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on September 30, 2008, 01:32:58 pm
Well yeah thats the whole point of Soft-15kHz :)
Install it, plug in your VGA-to-SCART (I really doubtfull on this one, as I don't believe there are any VGA-to-SCART cables in any shop, because most of them are SCART-to-VGA, which is a different pinout) into your VGA card, and the SCART plug into your TV.



Hi sailorsat,
I wnet home today and decided to try the vga to scart cable I have with soft 15khz.
I think I jumped into it without knowing what I was doing.
It shows up 2 graphics cards primary and secondary (even though I only have one)
Wasnt sure what I had to install 15khz, 25khz etc. so tried different ones and rebooted.
Don't know what I did on my last attempt but now my s-video connection won't work.
The screen is jumping all over the place, I can't see the pc screen now to uninstall, is there a shortcut key to get back to my original resolution?
Have you any tips to get the soft 15khz working with my Radeon 9250 pci card?
I was quite happy with my setup but the bluriness just got to me.
Thanks.
Sham
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 30, 2008, 01:53:05 pm
what would you choose SailorSat ?
The ATI one, as the GeForce-8 doesn't work too well.


It shows up 2 graphics cards primary and secondary (even though I only have one)
Thats because you have two "heads", meaning you can drive two monitors/tvs at the same time.

Wasnt sure what I had to install 15khz, 25khz etc. so tried different ones and rebooted.
Don't know what I did on my last attempt but now my s-video connection won't work.
The screen is jumping all over the place, I can't see the pc screen now to uninstall, is there a shortcut key to get back to my original resolution?
Have you any tips to get the soft 15khz working with my Radeon 9250 pci card?

First of all, at bootup (before the windows logo) hammer F8 and select "Start with VGA mode", then you can uninstall Soft-15kHz.

Then, install Soft-15kHz with the "15kHz" option and reboot.
After that, you won't see anything on your PC monitor so plug in the VGA->SCART cable.

That should be all.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on September 30, 2008, 02:00:22 pm
sorry for all the questions, do I install on both card options or just primary?
On primary 800x600 is the lowest I can go but on the secondary I can choose 480x 600 (not sure exactly about this but something like that)
Thanks so much.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 30, 2008, 02:03:59 pm
Only on primary, but you'll need to use quickres to select lower resolutions.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on September 30, 2008, 02:13:53 pm
thanks I made a bit of a mess.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on September 30, 2008, 03:26:31 pm
ok.
Did that and the screen is flashing black and white?
Reckon I have to go back to my s-video option.
Is there anywhere you can buy a proper vga to scart as I presume its the cable thats the problem.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on September 30, 2008, 04:16:21 pm
Can anyone tell me how to make 'double scan' versions of the 15khz resolutions??, so they work on a LCD display
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 30, 2008, 05:06:50 pm
Can anyone tell me how to make 'double scan' versions of the 15khz resolutions??, so they work on a LCD display

Where was I... Oh yes!

custom31khz.txt
Code: [Select]
modeline '240x240@58,795' 9,66 240 252 276 310 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '256x240@60,436' 10,6 256 272 296 336 240 244 247 261 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '256x256@59,496' 10,72 256 268 292 330 256 257 260 273 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '256x264@58,317' 10,7 256 268 292 330 264 265 268 278 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '288x240@59,885' 11,68 288 296 328 368 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '296x240@59,941' 11,9 296 304 336 376 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '304x240@59,305' 12,4 304 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '321x240@59,014' 12,9 321 336 368 414 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '320x256@59,917' 13,36 321 340 372 416 256 257 260 268 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '336x240@59,749' 13,66 336 352 384 433 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '352x256@59,697' 14,56 352 368 400 450 256 257 260 271 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '352x264@57,257' 14,7 352 365 405 452 264 265 268 284 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '352x288@51,116' 14,8 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '368x240@59,196' 14,94 368 384 424 478 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '384x288@51,219' 15,7 384 400 440 496 288 289 292 309 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '392x240@59,898' 16 392 408 448 504 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '400x256@52,419' 16,16 401 416 456 519 256 268 271 297 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '448x240@60,01' 18,32 448 464 512 576 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '512x240@59,973' 21,36 512 544 600 672 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '512x288@50,939' 21,36 512 544 600 672 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '632x264@56,751' 26 632 664 728 824 264 265 268 278 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '640x240@59,96' 26,44 640 672 736 832 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '640x288@50,955' 26,2 640 672 736 832 288 289 292 309 -hsync -vsync doublescan

But I doubt your LCD will sync to all of them (at least not the 50hz ones)


*EDIT*
Oops... I didn't answer your question...
You double the pixelclock, and add a "doublescan" to the end of the line, that's all.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 30, 2008, 05:17:18 pm
Is there anywhere you can buy a proper vga to scart as I presume its the cable thats the problem.

Phew...
Over here in Germany theres only one shop I know of that sells those cables.

( http://www.wolfsoft.de/shop/product_info.php/products_id/12836/%3Cbr%20/%3E )

Like I said, you won't find those cables premade anywhere. (The ones at wolfsoft are handmade too)
Maybe you find someone at your location who can solder you one.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on September 30, 2008, 05:41:49 pm
Thanks Sailorsat,
I just spent 5 hours trying different things and it took me most of that time to get back to where I was.
Do you reckon that cable will work?
Has anyone tested on the radeon 9250.
Thanks again, I would have been lost tonight without you.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on October 01, 2008, 05:54:44 am
thanks for the link Sailorsat I am going to order that cable now.
Cheers.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on October 01, 2008, 02:47:33 pm
Me again Sailorsat.
Got my sister to give me a hand ordering the cable (as she is fluent in German)
The site has no CC or paypal option for payment, just cash or cheque or something.
Do you know what the story is with this?
I really need this cable  as I can't find it anywhere.
Any ideas.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on October 01, 2008, 09:13:14 pm
Thanks Sailorsat,
I just spent 5 hours trying different things and it took me most of that time to get back to where I was.
Do you reckon that cable will work?
Has anyone tested on the radeon 9250.
Thanks again, I would have been lost tonight without you.

That's because you haven't spent what would amount to less time reading and understanding the information required to use these hardware and software properly. As for scart cables, if you're UK, you may be able to order one from Ultimarc, or perhaps from someone on the boards local/semi-local to you.


Can anyone tell me how to make 'double scan' versions of the 15khz resolutions??, so they work on a LCD display

Why bother?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on October 02, 2008, 03:02:07 am
Twin-X, notice it says in the stock set 31khz modes are interlace. As well, very early on SS posted that XGA mode. So you missed both these.

Well i do not need interlace and i do not need xga and yes i read it and i don't get it!!! ever tried to link a url and point out what you are trying to say?
I think you make it a sport over here to make people ashamed to ask questions. Consider that not everyone here is a techie or a native english!!!
However i think you are a nice person but you should try to set your "frustrion?" away and be more helpfull or silent.

The awnser from sailor was more satisfying then yours and it did the trick. This triggered me to donate $70. All it took was 1 line and the result was 2 happy people.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on October 02, 2008, 04:06:43 am
Thanks for the reply Ummon
 but my post was meant for Sailorsat?
I did spend loads of time reading forums and wiki's etc.
I am completely new to this and have done a lot in the last month and have learned a lot of new stuff but there is only so much you can take in in a month.
I bought a new graphics card, bought a scart to vga cable (which doesnt seem to be the one I need but how was I to know) and i did some research on soft 15khz.
If I had the right cable I wouldnt have needed the help.
I thanked Sailorsat for all the help and was never rude or intrusive.
I find it a bit strange that you find it necessary to reply to a post that was not meant for you and try to tell me that I havent spent time reading and researching?
You don't know what I have and have not done.
Thank you for the reply on purchasing the scart but there was no need for the attitude.
Sham.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on October 02, 2008, 11:21:27 pm
Thanks Sailorsat,
I just spent 5 hours trying different things and it took me most of that time to get back to where I was.
Do you reckon that cable will work?
Has anyone tested on the radeon 9250.
Thanks again, I would have been lost tonight without you.

That's because you haven't spent what would amount to less time reading and understanding the information required to use these hardware and software properly. As for scart cables, if you're UK, you may be able to order one from Ultimarc, or perhaps from someone on the boards local/semi-local to you.



Dude, why was that necessary?   something happened during your day at your work? 


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on October 03, 2008, 06:18:16 pm
Often what one thinks they don't need, or need to know, is part of a rounding out of information that supports their efforts. In any case, I can't see after reading the wiki in its current state needing to ask or re-ask a lot of things I see asked around of late, so I re-suggest reading the wiki. I think it's a matter of people needing reassurance is all. That some perceive my suggestion in some personal manner would seem to underline this.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: MarcC on October 06, 2008, 05:27:30 am
I have read through all of this post and I decided just to ask, I apologise if this has been covered but alot of what was being said was kind of over my head as I am relativly new to this.

I will have a 8500GT on a TV with the VGA to SCART mod.

I have tried my best to research all of this but I find myself still confused.

Basically all these custom resolutions are throwing me off, I wanna set it up so that I get a picture on my TV and just play mame snes and megadrive roms.

Can this be done?

Does mame auto select the resolutions ?

Can I set windows to run at 640 x 480  through my TV and then just load up my ROM emulator and not worry about anything resolution related after that or is there more too it ?!

Also I see the 8 series Nvidia cards have a problem selecting lower resolutions, I have the option of a HD2400 ATI card would this be more suited?

Any advice is greatly appreciated as im struggling to grasp all this just now
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on October 06, 2008, 06:29:35 am
Hello Marc,

The 8500 is not working with this software :(

You should have more luck on the 2400 if i recall. But the 8500 is definatly a show stopper.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on October 06, 2008, 11:18:23 am
here's a link to a good ati comparison chart

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/131
 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: MarcC on October 06, 2008, 05:19:00 pm
Thanks for the replys guys,

I have managed to get a hold of a 7300GS :) which is on the compatible list!

So ill be going for that, Now I just need to figure out how to get past the bios screen without blowing up my TV, hahah

Any ideas ? :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on October 06, 2008, 05:20:11 pm
Eh turn on the tv after your pc booted?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: MarcC on October 07, 2008, 04:35:23 am
I wont be able to access the TV as it will be enclosed in a cab :)

Is it possible to turn the TV on using timed relay?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on October 07, 2008, 10:46:27 am
use the pci card trick

set your pci as the primary display in your pc's bios setting and your soft15k card to secondary and then go to device manager in windows and disable the pci card.

power down the pc and next time you boot your pc the bios screen will load on the pci card with no monitor connected becuase it is set to primamary.

 soon as windows starts the pci that was doing the bios then become's disabled in windows and your secondary card running the soft15K will kick in and display winows at 15K.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on October 07, 2008, 12:46:33 pm
Can anyone tell me how to make 'double scan' versions of the 15khz resolutions??, so they work on a LCD display

Where was I... Oh yes!

custom31khz.txt
Code: [Select]
modeline '240x240@58,795' 9,66 240 252 276 310 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '256x240@60,436' 10,6 256 272 296 336 240 244 247 261 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '256x256@59,496' 10,72 256 268 292 330 256 257 260 273 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '256x264@58,317' 10,7 256 268 292 330 264 265 268 278 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '288x240@59,885' 11,68 288 296 328 368 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '296x240@59,941' 11,9 296 304 336 376 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '304x240@59,305' 12,4 304 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '321x240@59,014' 12,9 321 336 368 414 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '320x256@59,917' 13,36 321 340 372 416 256 257 260 268 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '336x240@59,749' 13,66 336 352 384 433 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '352x256@59,697' 14,56 352 368 400 450 256 257 260 271 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '352x264@57,257' 14,7 352 365 405 452 264 265 268 284 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '352x288@51,116' 14,8 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '368x240@59,196' 14,94 368 384 424 478 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '384x288@51,219' 15,7 384 400 440 496 288 289 292 309 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '392x240@59,898' 16 392 408 448 504 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '400x256@52,419' 16,16 401 416 456 519 256 268 271 297 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '448x240@60,01' 18,32 448 464 512 576 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '512x240@59,973' 21,36 512 544 600 672 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '512x288@50,939' 21,36 512 544 600 672 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '632x264@56,751' 26 632 664 728 824 264 265 268 278 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '640x240@59,96' 26,44 640 672 736 832 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '640x288@50,955' 26,2 640 672 736 832 288 289 292 309 -hsync -vsync doublescan

But I doubt your LCD will sync to all of them (at least not the 50hz ones)


*EDIT*
Oops... I didn't answer your question...
You double the pixelclock, and add a "doublescan" to the end of the line, that's all.

Cheers thanks, it this the same as doubling the refresh rate??
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on October 07, 2008, 07:31:37 pm
Can anyone tell me how to make 'double scan' versions of the 15khz resolutions??, so they work on a LCD display

Where was I... Oh yes!

custom31khz.txt
Code: [Select]
modeline '240x240@58,795' 9,66 240 252 276 310 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '256x240@60,436' 10,6 256 272 296 336 240 244 247 261 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '256x256@59,496' 10,72 256 268 292 330 256 257 260 273 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '256x264@58,317' 10,7 256 268 292 330 264 265 268 278 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '288x240@59,885' 11,68 288 296 328 368 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '296x240@59,941' 11,9 296 304 336 376 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '304x240@59,305' 12,4 304 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '321x240@59,014' 12,9 321 336 368 414 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '320x256@59,917' 13,36 321 340 372 416 256 257 260 268 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '336x240@59,749' 13,66 336 352 384 433 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '352x256@59,697' 14,56 352 368 400 450 256 257 260 271 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '352x264@57,257' 14,7 352 365 405 452 264 265 268 284 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '352x288@51,116' 14,8 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '368x240@59,196' 14,94 368 384 424 478 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '384x288@51,219' 15,7 384 400 440 496 288 289 292 309 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '392x240@59,898' 16 392 408 448 504 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '400x256@52,419' 16,16 401 416 456 519 256 268 271 297 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '448x240@60,01' 18,32 448 464 512 576 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '512x240@59,973' 21,36 512 544 600 672 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '512x288@50,939' 21,36 512 544 600 672 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '632x264@56,751' 26 632 664 728 824 264 265 268 278 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '640x240@59,96' 26,44 640 672 736 832 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync doublescan
modeline '640x288@50,955' 26,2 640 672 736 832 288 289 292 309 -hsync -vsync doublescan

But I doubt your LCD will sync to all of them (at least not the 50hz ones)


*EDIT*
Oops... I didn't answer your question...
You double the pixelclock, and add a "doublescan" to the end of the line, that's all.

Cheers thanks, it this the same as doubling the refresh rate??

Um, yes? I recommend re-reading what she said at the bottom.


Marc, if you don't want to mess about with this stuff than I suggest not using it. Just use S-video or component. Elsewise, you're going to have to have more patience and read through all the stuff. It will actually take less time than learning the hard Trial 'N Error way.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 08, 2008, 12:06:53 am
Cheers thanks, it this the same as doubling the refresh rate??

Err, no.

Doubling the refresh would output 240 lines with 120Hz, Doubling the Scanlines will output 480 lines with 60Hz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Todd H on October 08, 2008, 02:02:28 pm
Here's a question I didn't see after reading through this sucker.

Can Soft-15KHz be used in conjunction with Powerstrip? The reason I ask is that Powerstrip lets you adjust some screen geometry settings, which would be helpful for people using an analog tri-sync monitor that doesn't remember the settings for each frequency.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 08, 2008, 02:14:48 pm
Here's a question I didn't see after reading through this sucker.

Can Soft-15KHz be used in conjunction with Powerstrip? The reason I ask is that Powerstrip lets you adjust some screen geometry settings, which would be helpful for people using an analog tri-sync monitor that doesn't remember the settings for each frequency.

Yep. But you will have to use Soft-15kHz first. Then change the modes with PowerStrip
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Todd H on October 08, 2008, 02:16:13 pm
Here's a question I didn't see after reading through this sucker.

Can Soft-15KHz be used in conjunction with Powerstrip? The reason I ask is that Powerstrip lets you adjust some screen geometry settings, which would be helpful for people using an analog tri-sync monitor that doesn't remember the settings for each frequency.

Yep. But you will have to use Soft-15kHz first. Then change the modes with PowerStrip

Interesting. Thanks SailorSat. Looking forward to giving Soft-15Khz a try when my cab is completed. :)

Edit: One last question...what PCIe card seems to be the most compatible with all the modes? I haven't bought the computer components for my cabinet yet and want to get the best card to use with Soft-15KHz. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on October 09, 2008, 08:09:55 pm
Cheers thanks, it this the same as doubling the refresh rate??

Err, no.

Doubling the refresh would output 240 lines with 120Hz, Doubling the Scanlines will output 480 lines with 60Hz.

Oh. Right. Duh. Partly I was confused because (as I remember them, but can't find them in a regular search) in the 'high refresh' modes posted, the refresh listed for each mode isn't 120 but 60. However, the clock is twice what it would be, which is the same in the case just above, but the 'doublescan' tells it to "double the scanlines".

Ah-ha Here it is. (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=66402.msg691984#msg691984) But the image isn't displaying, at least for me. Easy to miss it, and a search with SailorSat as the poster didn't bring it up. Had to search only under 'modeline'.


Here's a question I didn't see after reading through this sucker.

Can Soft-15KHz be used in conjunction with Powerstrip? The reason I ask is that Powerstrip lets you adjust some screen geometry settings, which would be helpful for people using an analog tri-sync monitor that doesn't remember the settings for each frequency.

I tried out Powerstrip before soft15 came around, but couldn't get it to work. Do you have to load those resolutions manually into Powerstrip or does it just know all available Windows modes? And then does PS allow you to adjust in-game?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 10, 2008, 03:06:54 am
One last question...what PCIe card seems to be the most compatible with all the modes? I haven't bought the computer components for my cabinet yet and want to get the best card to use with Soft-15KHz. Thanks again.
ATI Radeon X600-X800 or a NVidia GeForce 7600GT-7950GT.

Newer Radeons have a higher pixelclock limit (7.12mhz) and newer GeForce don't seem to support resolutions below 512x384.



Do you have to load those resolutions manually into Powerstrip or does it just know all available Windows modes? And then does PS allow you to adjust in-game?
Actually powerstrip will read all available resolutions from windows, an the "detailed" definitions once the resolution is active.

Only downside is, that the powerstrip window is too big to be usefull below 640x480.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Todd H on October 10, 2008, 07:14:49 am
One last question...what PCIe card seems to be the most compatible with all the modes? I haven't bought the computer components for my cabinet yet and want to get the best card to use with Soft-15KHz. Thanks again.
ATI Radeon X600-X800 or a NVidia GeForce 7600GT-7950GT.

Newer Radeons have a higher pixelclock limit (7.12mhz) and newer GeForce don't seem to support resolutions below 512x384.

The Radeon X600 was the card I was looking at. I can get one pretty cheap ($20) on eBay. Good to know it works. Thanks again. :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on October 10, 2008, 11:39:11 am
I wont be able to access the TV as it will be enclosed in a cab :)

Is it possible to turn the TV on using timed relay?

On my vertical cab with a 26" Loewe TV, I wired in an extra power switch and mounted it in a discreet place on the cab so that I could turn the TV on/off separately.

BTW, here is your new VGA->SCART lead being tested on my 33" Grundig.  As you can see, all the colours look great in RGB splendour!  The hat in the foreground belongs to my daughter, who enjoys watching movies and playing windows games on the Grundig (a good side-benefit of this hobby).

My apologies to SailorSat - the PC is running Powerstrip for 15khz modes.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on October 11, 2008, 07:04:06 am
Cheers thanks, it this the same as doubling the refresh rate??

Err, no.

Doubling the refresh would output 240 lines with 120Hz, Doubling the Scanlines will output 480 lines with 60Hz.

Ok, so alot of these lower resoultion modes will not work on a PC monitor then?? As i know the version 2 of the ArcadeVGA card stated that it worked with PC monitors, i just though this program would work in the same way?? So would i get better results if i doubled the refresh rates or doubled the scanlines on an LCD PC screen?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 11, 2008, 07:24:30 am
Both of these will work on CRT monitors, but only doublescanned will work on LCDs, as your LCD can't sync to 120Hz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 14, 2008, 03:52:10 pm
question for you sailorSat.

i have a passive ati radeon 3870 with dvi-vga dongle running with vga->rgb cable to a 25" sony trinitron scart rgb tv 4:3
running windows xp 32bit with catalist driver 8.9

all resolutions below 640x480 are steady, sharp not shaking resolutions

but when i select 640 x 480 or up the screen flikkers very much, i read something about selecting 480i instead of 480p

is a tv always shaking from 640x480 and up?

and second question, in mam.ini i selected change resolution , some games go to propper resolution but for example street fighter 2 world warriors goes to 640x480 and then stretches

why doest it go native?

thnx.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 14, 2008, 04:04:42 pm
question for you sailorSat.

i have a passive ati radeon 3870 with dvi-vga dongle running with vga->rgb cable to a 25" sony trinitron scart rgb tv 4:3
running windows xp 32bit with catalist driver 8.9

all resolutions below 640x480 are steady, sharp not shaking resolutions

but when i select 640 x 480 or up the screen flikkers very much, i read something about selecting 480i instead of 480p

is a tv always shaking from 640x480 and up?

and second question, in mam.ini i selected change resolution , some games go to propper resolution but for example street fighter 2 world warriors goes to 640x480 and then stretches

why doest it go native?

thnx.

Do you have Artwork enabled?
As for 640x480, yeah, actually a TV can't show real 480 lines, so it will flicker.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 14, 2008, 04:13:47 pm
no i disabled them, i just select 4:3

so 640x480 flickers always

so why is sf2 running in 640x480 and then stretched to full screen, when its a 320x244(dont know exact) game?

some games like xmen vs sf2 run in their native..
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on October 14, 2008, 04:52:38 pm
Is there anywhere you can buy a proper vga to scart as I presume its the cable thats the problem.

Phew...
Over here in Germany theres only one shop I know of that sells those cables.

( http://www.wolfsoft.de/shop/product_info.php/products_id/12836/%3Cbr%20/%3E )

Like I said, you won't find those cables premade anywhere. (The ones at wolfsoft are handmade too)
Maybe you find someone at your location who can solder you one.








HI Sailorsat,
Got the cable delivered today.
I tried what you told me and am still getting a flickering on the TV, I can see the desktop but it is red and flickery .
I tried messing around with resolutions but not sure what I should be doing.
Just to refresh its a radeon 9250 pci card and a philips tv with scart.
Any suggestions.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on October 14, 2008, 09:21:15 pm
I'm concerned about cables' construction quality, because the symptoms you describe could be due to poor connections on colour and/or sync signals.

I'd like to know the pinout for that cable.  For example, how do they send the RGB switching signal to pin 16?

I don't suppose that you could open it up and take photos each side so we can see the pinouts (and whether some wire connections are falling off)? 

Is there anywhere you can buy a proper vga to scart as I presume its the cable thats the problem.

Phew...
Over here in Germany theres only one shop I know of that sells those cables.

( http://www.wolfsoft.de/shop/product_info.php/products_id/12836/%3Cbr%20/%3E )

Like I said, you won't find those cables premade anywhere. (The ones at wolfsoft are handmade too)
Maybe you find someone at your location who can solder you one.

HI Sailorsat,
Got the cable delivered today.
I tried what you told me and am still getting a flickering on the TV, I can see the desktop but it is red and flickery .
I tried messing around with resolutions but not sure what I should be doing.
Just to refresh its a radeon 9250 pci card and a philips tv with scart.
Any suggestions.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 15, 2008, 12:08:22 am
no i disabled them, i just select 4:3

so why is sf2 running in 640x480 and then stretched to full screen, when its a 320x244(dont know exact) game?

some games like xmen vs sf2 run in their native..

Because the Artwork will take some pixel space, even if you disable them.
Open your MAME.INI and set "crop-artwork" to 1, or remove your artwork path.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 15, 2008, 02:04:44 am
no i disabled them, i just select 4:3

so why is sf2 running in 640x480 and then stretched to full screen, when its a 320x244(dont know exact) game?

some games like xmen vs sf2 run in their native..

Because the Artwork will take some pixel space, even if you disable them.
Open your MAME.INI and set "crop-artwork" to 1, or remove your artwork path.

that worked like a charm ! thanks sailorsat.

i tried samurai showdown and the screen goes blank at 321x24? something any thoughts on that?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on October 15, 2008, 03:25:22 am
I'm concerned about cables' construction quality, because the symptoms you describe could be due to poor connections on colour and/or sync signals.

I'd like to know the pinout for that cable.  For example, how do they send the RGB switching signal to pin 16?

I don't suppose that you could open it up and take photos each side so we can see the pinouts (and whether some wire connections are falling off)? 

Is there anywhere you can buy a proper vga to scart as I presume its the cable thats the problem.

Phew...
Over here in Germany theres only one shop I know of that sells those cables.

( http://www.wolfsoft.de/shop/product_info.php/products_id/12836/%3Cbr%20/%3E )

Like I said, you won't find those cables premade anywhere. (The ones at wolfsoft are handmade too)
Maybe you find someone at your location who can solder you one.

HI Sailorsat,
Got the cable delivered today.
I tried what you told me and am still getting a flickering on the TV, I can see the desktop but it is red and flickery .
I tried messing around with resolutions but not sure what I should be doing.
Just to refresh its a radeon 9250 pci card and a philips tv with scart.
Any suggestions.
Thanks.












Thanks for the reply Zebidee.
The picture gets better as I mess around with the res.
The way I have my cab setup at the moment is through the TV so I am not using the PC monitor at all.
Just to run you quickly through what I did.
Have a radeon 9250 pci 128mb card installed.
Ran soft 15khz (on the primary card) set the resolution to 600x480
Rebooted the machine, connected the scart to vga and I can see the desktop but it flickers slowly down the screen.
Just another thing on this, the vga-scart cable has a usb cable coming from the scart end which has to be connected or I get no picture at all, there is also 2 audio connections coming off this.
Cheers.
I can open the scart when I get home and take some pics if it would help.
I hope its not my card as I bought this and the cable especially for the cab.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on October 15, 2008, 10:51:47 am
t the best card to use with Soft-15KHz. Thanks again.
ATI Radeon X600-X800 or a NVidia GeForce 7600GT-7950GT.

Newer Radeons have a higher pixelclock limit (7.12mhz) and newer GeForce don't seem to support resolutions below 512x384.
So, the best card is the ati x800xt (are x800XT, x800GTO and x800 the same for soft15KHz?) because nvdia cards have a limit on the number of resolutions you can add, right?

Quote from: SailorSat
Do you have to load those resolutions manually into Powerstrip or does it just know all available Windows modes? And then does PS allow you to adjust in-game?
Actually powerstrip will read all available resolutions from windows, an the "detailed" definitions once the resolution is active.

Only downside is, that the powerstrip window is too big to be usefull below 640x480.
The changes you make with PS are saved in soft15khz, or have I to reload it every time?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on October 15, 2008, 11:07:03 am
ATI Radeon X600-X800 or a NVidia GeForce 7600GT-7950GT.

Newer Radeons have a higher pixelclock limit (7.12mhz) and newer GeForce don't seem to support resolutions below 512x384.

Good to know. Is anything newer than a x800 have the higher limit.

Also, do you know what exactly the pixelclock limit is for the older (e.g. X800) actually is?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on October 15, 2008, 11:34:36 am
Double post sorry.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on October 15, 2008, 02:28:07 pm
I use a X1950 pro ddr3 512MB with these:

;Remove some "too low" resolutions
remove 240x240
remove 256x240
remove 256x256
remove 256x264
remove 321x256

;ReAdd some "low" resolutions with higher pclock and (way) larger sync width
modeline '288x240@59.885' 7.12 288 332 392 448 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240@59.941' 7.12 296 338 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '304x240@59.305' 7.12 304 344 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '321x240@59.014' 7.12 321 350 392 448 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '336x240@59.749' 7.12 336 356 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync

the x800's may not have to do that and able to run them res's as is but they lack the horse power compared to higher end cards that can be used with pretty much the same great results.

the only reason I went with that card is I wanted to be able to play pc games of today where the arcadevga and early X-series is just not getting it done anymore.

I also figured by getting that card and it being the strongest vga card they made I would not have to worry about updating it ever until a whole new pc rig is made.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 15, 2008, 04:02:18 pm
where do you add these lines?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on October 15, 2008, 04:08:03 pm
You add these lines in the "custom.txt"

Interesting post northerngames.
These changed resolutions look like the originals? Can you notice the difference?

One thing I have not understand is how you can modify these res mantaining the centering, stretch, width, etc..

PS: Have you tested nulldc with this video card? Wich is your model of x1950 (sapphire, peak, etc.). thx :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 15, 2008, 04:20:24 pm
You add these lines in the "custom.txt"
It's custom15khz.txt


These changed resolutions look like the originals? Can you notice the difference?
One thing I have not understand is how you can modify these res mantaining the centering, stretch, width, etc..
They don't look like the originals. The have black borders. Simply impossible to get them with those high pixelclocks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 15, 2008, 04:43:29 pm
lol

first i bought a radeon 8600 passive then sailersat told me to get ati so i got a radeon 3870 passive
and now i need a old card like the x800 to be able to use all these resolutions.

my radeon 3870 doesnt do 321x240 or lower :(

what the best thing to do then?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 15, 2008, 04:59:16 pm
oh, i found a pc what is mine with a radeon x800 xl card pcie

is that same for x800?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on October 15, 2008, 05:48:27 pm
oh, i found a pc what is mine with a radeon x800 xl card pcie

is that same for x800?

Yes!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on October 15, 2008, 08:18:28 pm
 I take no credit for the res's I posted everything worked like the arcadevga for me except a few after I started to use stock soft15K.

 I had mentioned them and the display problem to sailor and was sent that .txt file to try and it worked great for me.

 I am happy with all the results and everything I throw at it looks great to me.

I just used the file provided for me  :notworthy:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on October 16, 2008, 02:56:17 am
I am happy with all the results and everything I throw at it looks great to me.

So, no black borders with those removed resolutions? Have you tryied them?
;Remove some "too low" resolutions
remove 240x240
remove 256x240
remove 256x256
remove 256x264
remove 321x256
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on October 16, 2008, 03:24:13 am
I am happy with all the results and everything I throw at it looks great to me.

So, no black borders with those removed resolutions? Have you tryied them?
;Remove some "too low" resolutions
remove 240x240
remove 256x240
remove 256x256
remove 256x264
remove 321x256

I have the same setup as northern. There are black borders. Stretch your image on the monitor and the games are borderless.

Your conclusion is odd because he is happy with the resolution it has to be borderless? Some games look great close to their native resolution that you take the borders for granted.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on October 16, 2008, 03:44:45 am
There are black borders. Stretch your image on the monitor and the games are borderless.

Ok, but if you change between resolution, you will always have to deal with width pots on the monitor.

Are those black borders "top-bottom" or "left-right" (or both)?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 16, 2008, 05:47:05 am
i tried it on my radeon 3870 with the things removed

neogeo had borders and so has sf2 now :(

why is there no wiki on this  :P doesnt eveyone have this problem who uses soft15khz and rgb scart vga?

ill swap the videocard tonight with a x800 and try again
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on October 16, 2008, 06:40:26 am
There are black borders. Stretch your image on the monitor and the games are borderless.

Ok, but if you change between resolution, you will always have to deal with width pots on the monitor.

Are those black borders "top-bottom" or "left-right" (or both)?

Well i am fortunate that it remebers the setting per refresh setting so (15khz 25khz and 31khz).
Just pick the nicest one in your case.

The borders are some times on top (widescreen look alike games.) and some are on the side (neo geo type) It differs per game. Only on a few verticals i have borders on both sides.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on October 16, 2008, 06:48:25 am
i tried it on my radeon 3870 with the things removed

neogeo had borders and so has sf2 now :(

why is there no wiki on this  :P doesnt eveyone have this problem who uses soft15khz and rgb scart vga?

ill swap the videocard tonight with a x800 and try again

It does not make a diffrence if you swap cards. It is because of the number of pixels you use. The picture does not stretch to fill up those lost pixels this is why you see borders.

You simply cannot get a perfect picture for running so many diffrent games, period.
Accept the borders or use stretching and get an ugly picture. You make that choice.

What you want is simply not possible.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 16, 2008, 07:06:02 am
arent neogeo games full screen like samurai showdown?

it has borders and so does sf2
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on October 16, 2008, 07:48:53 am
They are full screen if you have a resolution in windows that is 320x224 You probably have something bigger. 320x240 i think so there is a gap of 16 pixels. These pixels are the borders!

So neo geo has black borders on the sides. SF has borders on top and bottom.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 16, 2008, 07:56:49 am
i have set in mame.ini switch_res to 1
then it should switch to the correct reolutions does it not?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on October 16, 2008, 08:11:56 am
You simply cannot get a perfect picture for running so many diffrent games, period.
Accept the borders or use stretching and get an ugly picture. You make that choice.

What you want is simply not possible.

With an ArcadeVGA and also with the great AdvanceMame, I was able to have no lateral borders (only top/bottom) with all resolutions (neogeo also).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on October 16, 2008, 09:03:07 am
You simply cannot get a perfect picture for running so many diffrent games, period.
Accept the borders or use stretching and get an ugly picture. You make that choice.

What you want is simply not possible.

With an ArcadeVGA and also with the great AdvanceMame, I was able to have no lateral borders (only top/bottom) with all resolutions (neogeo also).

I also have an arcade vga. I got borders on some games. As said it depends on the resolution you choose. I never used advancemame (too old unfortunatly for me)

However i have the feeling this discussion is becomming an endeless thread so i stop now.

Quote
i have set in mame.ini switch_res to 1
then it should switch to the correct reolutions does it not?
No it switches to the closest resolution mame thinks is good for the game. (this is not always the best choice) A custom game.ini can solve this for those game you wich to change.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on October 16, 2008, 09:27:45 am
ATI Radeon X600-X800 or a NVidia GeForce 7600GT-7950GT.

Newer Radeons have a higher pixelclock limit (7.12mhz) and newer GeForce don't seem to support resolutions below 512x384.

Good to know. Is anything newer than a x800 have the higher limit.

Also, do you know what exactly the pixelclock limit is for the older (e.g. X800) actually is?

SailorSat did you see this query? also curious to know how you found the 7.12mhz limit...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 16, 2008, 10:29:00 am
i got my gigabyte GV-RX80L256V back  :cheers:

Powered by ATI RadeonTM X800XL VPU

this card is possible to handle all the resolutions native even with borders. Right??  :dunno

(http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/FileList/Image/vga_productimage_gv-rx80l256v_big.jpg)

i will try it  :-\


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 16, 2008, 12:07:21 pm
i tried it on my radeon 3870 with the things removed

neogeo had borders and so has sf2 now :(

why is there no wiki on this  :P doesnt eveyone have this problem who uses soft15khz and rgb scart vga?

ill swap the videocard tonight with a x800 and try again

I'll explain step by step what happens.

1. There is the "Front-End" Resolution, in our case let it be 321x240.
Software chooses from those resolutions and picks the one that suits it the best.
In Case of MAME and Neo-Geo, it will fit the 320x224 image by leaving 1 pixel on the right "blank", so it does with 8 pixel at the top and 8 at the bottom.


2. There is the "Back-End" Resolution.
This is where the problem starts.
An image on the screen has basically 4 "zones".
The first is pretty simple, the so called "active" video, where the picture is shown.
Then there is the "front porch" area, which is usually black (or blue on a commodore 64) which is used as compensation for the so called "overscan" on monitors, as screens dont have "plain" edges.
Follong this "Front Porch" is the so called "Scan" Zone, in which the CRTs beam will be set to be next line.
Last there is the "Back Porch", which is pretty much the same as the front porch, except is lies BEFORE the actual image.


Even though the Porches and the Scan don't produce any image (like said, usually black), they get "clocked" in pixels.
So just lets say with all porches and stuff, your 321x240 image actually is more like 384x256 "pixels", which sum up to 98304 pixels.

As the image gets drawn 60 times per second, the card has to produces 5898240 pixels.
The timer for this is called the "pixelclock".

5898240 Hz = 5898,24 kHz = 5,89824 MHz

The problem is, that newer ATI cards can't be clocked below 7,12 MHz, so I have to fill in "pixels" somewhere.
As I can't add more "active" pixels, I have to increase the porches and the Sync (actually these have to stay in some kind of relationship to each other).

Thats why you can't get "perfect" modes with newer cards.

You X800 is perfectly able to clock down way below 4 MHz.



SailorSat did you see this query? also curious to know how you found the 7.12mhz limit...

Actually I didn't see it.
Well I simply tried out, clocking the resolutions down until it didn't display anymore.
I don't know the limit on the older cards, but it seems to be way below 4 MHz, (240*240).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on October 16, 2008, 12:55:22 pm
Great explanation SailorSat! So, if I've understood, the problems involves side black borders (left/right).

One question: I've found an ati x850xt that I can buy used. Will it work as the x800?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 16, 2008, 01:46:15 pm
One question: I've found an ati x850xt that I can buy used. Will it work as the x800?

My skills in fortune telling aren't that good, sry :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on October 16, 2008, 01:59:59 pm
One question: I've found an ati x850xt that I can buy used. Will it work as the x800?

My skills in fortune telling aren't that good, sry :)

Really? And what if i buy you a glass sphere :D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 16, 2008, 05:24:01 pm
installed th x800 xl and installed soft15khz (only 15khz option)

ran mamepp.exe with switchres_1 and crop_artwork 0 and triplebuffering d3d and hardwarestretching 1

then started samurai showdown 1 and the screen blanked on me  :angry:

wasnt the x800 able to run al the resolutions?

streetfighter 2 had 25% black borders on both sided..
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on October 16, 2008, 05:41:08 pm
Try using ddraw instead of d3d and disable hardware stretching.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on October 16, 2008, 07:43:58 pm
I also use the same settings as the arcadevga use's to the T and I also us the avgain tool I think it is called so it does the res's for you.

SF2

(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj70/northerngames/IMAG0063.jpg)

pics due no justice though but it is a full screen on mine

 it's the sapphire version there the only one's that made the ddr3 512MB version its also a power hog that requires two molex plugs to power and most low end psu are not going to get it for these watts mean nothing it is all about the sustained amp output so I went with a corsair VX-550 to power its hunger.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 17, 2008, 02:48:57 am
this is what happens with sf2

Parsing mame.ini
Parsing mame.ini
Video: Monitor 00010001 = "\\.\DISPLAY1" (primary)
Direct3D: Using Direct3D 9
Direct3D: Configuring adapter #0 = GIGABYTE RADEON X800 XL
Direct3D: Selecting video mode...
   288x 240@ 60Hz -> 719.424486
   296x 240@ 60Hz -> 719.424486
   304x 240@ 60Hz -> 719.424486
   320x 240@ 60Hz -> 719.424486
   336x 240@ 60Hz -> 719.424486
   352x 256@ 60Hz -> 719.424486
   352x 264@ 60Hz -> 719.424486
   352x 288@ 60Hz -> 719.424486
   368x 240@ 60Hz -> 719.424486
   384x 288@ 60Hz -> 734.809102
   392x 240@ 60Hz -> 759.424485
   400x 300@ 60Hz -> 730.177174
   448x 240@ 60Hz -> 731.770165
   512x 240@ 60Hz -> 726.321038
   512x 288@ 60Hz -> 724.605833
   512x 384@ 60Hz -> 722.884694
   512x 448@ 60Hz -> 722.257347
   512x 512@ 60Hz -> 721.822568
   632x 264@ 60Hz -> 722.884694
   640x 240@ 60Hz -> 723.087490
   640x 288@ 60Hz -> 722.539751
   640x 480@ 60Hz -> 721.373804
   720x 480@ 60Hz -> 721.110827
   720x 576@ 60Hz -> 720.875865
   800x 600@ 60Hz -> 720.685520
   848x 480@ 60Hz -> 720.811449
  1024x 480@ 60Hz -> 720.539313
  1024x 768@ 60Hz -> 720.268368
  1280x 720@ 50Hz -> 10.142946
Direct3D: Mode selected =  392x 240@ 60Hz
Direct3D: Using dynamic textures
Direct3D: YUV format = UYVY
Direct3D: Device created at 392x240
Direct3D: Max texture size = 2048x2048
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 17, 2008, 03:16:24 am
You will have to remove the custom15khz.txt with the X800.

*EDIT* Wait... What Catalyst are you using? It seems it's way to new (320x240 and others should NOT be there)

Give Catalyst 6.5 a try -> http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat65-xp.html
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 17, 2008, 04:13:45 am
ok, ill try 6.5

ddraw with hardware stretching off was also better

sf2 is supposed to be 384 x 224 pixels

and it ran in 388 x 228 pixels

MAME Native Vs Scaled Resolution is just bothering me..

another problem is that in 640x288 i can control everything in the service menu to get the screen right

but when it flips to 320x240 for example then i cant control it and it has a border only on the left side, its a non gfx border
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 17, 2008, 04:34:26 am
SF2 should run in 392x240 rather than 384x288
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 17, 2008, 05:04:37 am
lol, why does it choose that one then?

do you have a perfect costum15khz.txt for my card tv combi :) and mame.ini settings?

or what do you recommend

getting tired of this  :dizzy:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 17, 2008, 05:11:21 am
You don't need a custom15khz.txt with the X800.

As for SF2... You may want to use the AVRES tool.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 17, 2008, 05:23:54 am
ah, never used that before

also some nice info on http://www.ultimarc.com/avgainst.html

ill try it this weekend !
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on October 17, 2008, 10:54:59 am
 I used the avres tool from that link above not the avgain tool like I was thinking/posting prior.

 I'm also using mamefx not just stock mame so all volume levels are balanced out instead of one game whispering and then another screaming loud and having to play with the volume knob for each game.

the mamefx type avoids all that and balance's the sounds out to be the same level without playing with the volume knob all the time.

sf2 was 384 x 224 in that pic
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on October 17, 2008, 12:41:03 pm
Northern, when you change between resolutions have you to adjust the image with monitor pots, or are all res centered and horizontally stretched?

PS: Mamefx has also the great "sync audio with video" option, borrowed from SailorSat's CabMame.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 17, 2008, 05:30:49 pm
SF2 should run in 392x240 rather than 384x288

perfect !! its great now , why does AVRES tool set it to 384x288?

do you also have the perfect neogeo resolution?

it keeps wanting to go to 321x something that my tv or card cant handle

isnt the x800 supposed to support 321x?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 17, 2008, 05:38:07 pm
Like I said, Catalyst 6.5.
The newer ones don't work well.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on October 17, 2008, 05:54:03 pm
Any hopes of putting in Intel video drivers?  I've got a PC with onboard video that has an awesome form factor.  I can almost get it working with PowerStrip, but my lack of know-how has me floundering.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on October 17, 2008, 07:43:12 pm
Northern, when you change between resolutions have you to adjust the image with monitor pots, or are all res centered and horizontally stretched?

PS: Mamefx has also the great "sync audio with video" option, borrowed from SailorSat's CabMame.

I dont have to adjust the monitor after I got it in a sweet spot I have not toached them and no adjustments are needed.

97% display fine and in screen but there are a few that are stretched off the screen a little but there mostly old old one's anyhow.

the way I was looking at it is I had a choice I could have all the perfect res's and no up to date pc games or suffer a few old one's but be able to play most any up to date pc game I can throw at it except one's that run a minumum of 1024X768.

I originally got the card for resident evil 4 and company of heroes and the call of duty's playing them on the cab was cool and with the trackball on some it made it even funner.

I just installed John woo's stranglehold but I am going to use the MS wireless controller &  wireless gaming reciever instead of the CP controls.

another cool thing with that gaming reciever is you can use the wireless 360 racing wheel and pedal for the pc and mame racing games and when done there is no farting with disconnecting wire or opening the cab.

I have a usb extension cable from the pc mounted into the bottom of my cp so I just plug anything usb right to the bottom of my cp push the sync buttom and it's go to go.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on October 17, 2008, 09:07:58 pm
why is there no wiki on this  :P doesnt eveyone have this problem who uses soft15khz and rgb scart vga?



You're free to add an entry in it for this.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 18, 2008, 03:48:17 am
SF2 should run in 392x240 rather than 384x288

got the 800 xl and soft15khz and 6.5 catalyst running now, all resolutions work, althoug many have strange tv borders on the left side.

street fighter and many games select the default for 384 x 2288 in the ini files.

this resolution is wide perfect, no border and visible screen from left to right, but big border up and down

i changed it to 384 x 288

then its full screen but a strange big border only on the left side, its like i need to change the h-width in the tv service menu, but for some strange reason i can only change in the service menu when i am in 640x288, anything below and i cant edit any service mode settings. When i am in 640x288 or 640x480 or higher the screen is perfectly filled so i dont need to edit anything in the service menu

any thoughts on that
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 18, 2008, 03:51:21 am
Hm... yeah, sounds like your TV has a "not so good" H-Phase set as default :/

But well, thats the downside of using a TV.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 18, 2008, 06:26:48 am
can i move or do something with powerstip or catalist control center screen alignment for moving the screen?

does a "normal" tv support geometric for every different resolution? or is it just for default alignment for all settings
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 18, 2008, 06:38:29 am
Well, there is no such thing as "default", thats the problem.
Most (if not all TVs) are configured for NTSC (480i) and PAL (576i), with the default Overscan.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: MarcC on October 18, 2008, 01:38:12 pm
I have a slight problem!

I install your program, and restart, I keep it on monitor just to check and see if anything comes up and it doesnt it says "out of range"

So I plug in the scart to the TV and I get a screen, but when I resart my PC on the tv it does not work on the TV only the monitor.

The weird thing is when I change over to 15khz on the monitor and restart without unpluging the monitor vga cable it still does not come up on the monitor as if it is staying at 15khz,

But when I get a picture on the tv and try a reboot while still connected to the TV it never comes back on the TV screen atall and seems to work on the monitor if I plug it back into that,

I know this sounds like it is not possible , but I miust be missing something simple surley ???

Can anyone help me out with this please ?

Im runing a 7300GS and I have played various roms on my TV with no problem, it just seems to not work after a reboot at all ??

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: MarcC on October 18, 2008, 02:04:34 pm
I just ran soft15khz restarts the PC connected to the monitor, No picture, I restarted again the same thing.

I repeated this 10 times, every time I get no picture on my monitor, So it must be in 15khz?

I power down PC connect VGA to TV, turn system on no picture at all, If I take out the VGA to SCART and plug in the Monitor VGA cable the picture comes up on the monitor.....

This is driving me insane.....

The only way I get a picture on my TV is when I load up the PC and I get no picture, then I have to disconnect the VGA to monitor and plug in VGA to SCART, thats the only time I get a picture on the TV.....
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on October 18, 2008, 02:43:13 pm
desktop set for 640X480?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: MarcC on October 18, 2008, 03:16:43 pm
Yes desktop is at 640 x 480
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 18, 2008, 04:30:51 pm
Puh... It looks like your card doesn't sense your TV as "pluged in" and therefore deactivates the VGA port.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: MarcC on October 18, 2008, 05:16:24 pm
I got it too wrok!!

I just used an older version of the drivers and it worked first time!

But now I have another slight problem, I adjust the picture so that I can see the start menu etc, but when I reboot it goes back to the original position ?

Does anyone have any ideas what to do with this ?

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 18, 2008, 05:44:26 pm
Where/How did you adjust the position?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on October 18, 2008, 05:53:21 pm
When I first read your post, I worried that one of the monitor ID cables might have been connected to ground - this can sometimes cause a PC to disable VGA head output.  This happenned to me with one of my cabs, until I fixed the cable by cutting the monitor ID wires.  However, I made your cable myself and know that no monitor ID wires are attached! 

So I am doubly glad that you found the problem with your video drivers instead!

On moving/centering the picture, you may have limited options.  You could mine this thread for info on how to adjust picture positions by editing modelines, or you could find how to access the service mode of your TV - which *might* allow you to make some adjustments. 

Entering service mode usually requires a remote & knowledge of special codes, usually found in the tech service manual.  What TV do you have, what is the model no.?

This is driving me insane.....

The only way I get a picture on my TV is when I load up the PC and I get no picture, then I have to disconnect the VGA to monitor and plug in VGA to SCART, thats the only time I get a picture on the TV.....
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on October 18, 2008, 09:40:13 pm
I have issues like that with my Arcade Monitor. What happends is since my Arcade Monitor isnt plug and play it wants to set my desktop at 800x600@75hz. My monitor old does 60hz.

Your refresh rate could be the problem. I get it to work by going into safe mode and manually setting refresh of monitor or pluging and un pluging my vga cable a few times. I get my monitor to sync with OS and then I set refresh Manually to 60hz
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on October 19, 2008, 12:59:28 am
use the quikres tool to set the desktop res lower and it will stay with what you left it at after rebooting or powering on off.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on October 19, 2008, 12:24:49 pm
Hi,
Regular readers of this thread will know the numerous problems I had getting things to work.
Finally after a day and a half of thinking through what I am doing I think I have soft 15khz working with my radeon 9250 card through a pal philips 21" crt tv.
The desktop looks great, a tiny bit of flicker but much better than through s-video.
I have the res at 640x480.
I can see the mamewah screen with all the games and again it looks great, I chose Shinobi to play and I get an error on screen about some .ini settings , then the game tries to boot and then the screen flickers like crazy and I can see nothing.
I tried it again and the pc reboot?
I assume I have to add some res using the .txt file but I am not sure what to add.
I feel I am so close to getthing this working, I don't care about border etc so any help to get this sorted would be much appreciated..
Thank you all for your help in getting me this far...
Sham.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on October 19, 2008, 01:30:50 pm
Is your system (mamewah, etc) working with a normal VGA monitor? It seems that yours it's not a soft-15KHz problem.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on October 19, 2008, 02:13:36 pm
cheers for the reply bit I have made progress have it working now with one small problem
I loaded shinobi but the bottom of the screen is cropped
I reckon I have to add resolutions or something
I can't get over the picture difference it's so clear
Can anyone help me fix the resolution problem
Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 19, 2008, 02:17:24 pm
Shinobi should run in 321x240.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on October 19, 2008, 02:19:59 pm
do I have to keep changin the red for each game or is there a .txt file I can ad
Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 19, 2008, 02:31:41 pm
You don't have to change any res at all if your mame is set up correctly.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on October 19, 2008, 02:50:20 pm
i am using command line mame and it was working fine for my s-video setup but not since I plugged the scart-vga in?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 19, 2008, 02:56:18 pm
Try running MAME with "-verbose".

i.E.

mame -verbose shinobi
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on October 19, 2008, 03:03:21 pm
not sure how to do that sorry
I just run a mamewah exe that points to the command line exe?
sorry for not understanding as i know u are trying your best to help me.
Is there somewhere i can download a working mame ini file to check my settings?
Thanks again
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 19, 2008, 03:19:54 pm
Here is my mame.ini

http://files.arianchen.de/mame_ini.zip
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on October 19, 2008, 04:01:34 pm
thank you so so much its perfect now.
Sound is not working but reckon thats another setting I need to change.
The picture quality is fantastic it was worth all the hassle
Thank you for recommending the cable and for all your help.
If there is somewhere to donate let me know.
Cheers.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: MarcC on October 19, 2008, 04:06:58 pm
It all works fine now, thanks for the replys.

Im using the nvidia control panel to move the screen, it has the top and bottom chopped off, for instance when I play street fighter I cannot see the power build up at the bottom of the screen.

Overall it seems like I need to shrink the picture by about half and inch on both top and bottom.

Model of the tv is JVC AV-25TS1EK.

And thanks again for the cable :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on October 19, 2008, 07:30:51 pm
Any hopes of putting in Intel video drivers?  I've got a PC with onboard video that has an awesome form factor.  I can almost get it working with PowerStrip, but my lack of know-how has me floundering.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 20, 2008, 12:09:29 am
Any hopes of putting in Intel video drivers?  I've got a PC with onboard video that has an awesome form factor.  I can almost get it working with PowerStrip, but my lack of know-how has me floundering.

Actually Intel drivers are supported, at least the GMA (consumer) and the EGD (professional) ones, but both suffer from various drawbacks.
Can't blend out the "normal" modes on the GMA, the EGD doesn't support interlace, and both only support up to 5 modes.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on October 20, 2008, 05:59:26 am
Any hopes of putting in Intel video drivers?  I've got a PC with onboard video that has an awesome form factor.  I can almost get it working with PowerStrip, but my lack of know-how has me floundering.

Actually Intel drivers are supported, at least the GMA (consumer) and the EGD (professional) ones, but both suffer from various drawbacks.
Can't blend out the "normal" modes on the GMA, the EGD doesn't support interlace, and both only support up to 5 modes.

I see.  When I tried using Soft15 the adapter was greyed out for me.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 20, 2008, 11:27:01 am
What Chipset is it?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on October 22, 2008, 09:44:00 am
is there good resolution to calibrate my tv?

i thought i read it somewhere
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 22, 2008, 11:34:02 am
321x240 - 640x480
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: AloneIBreak on October 23, 2008, 07:46:13 am
To make my 9200 SE output 15 KHz to a (standard) 21" TV using Soft-15KHz I just need a SCART cable ?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: MarcC on October 23, 2008, 08:08:53 am
No,

You need a VGA to SCART lead, its is a special lead, Maybe you should read up on some stuff about it.

And its not a SCART to VGA, thats a totally different cable.

:)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: AloneIBreak on October 23, 2008, 10:30:59 am
I already knew that
When I said scart cable I was talking about VGA-Scart

But I still do not know if I just need the cable

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on October 23, 2008, 10:35:03 am
What Chipset is it?

815i - I think.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 23, 2008, 11:31:02 am
Hm yeah actually only the GMA Chipsets (945 etc.) are supported.
Won't work with the i810 family :(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on October 23, 2008, 02:42:02 pm
I can *almost* get it working with PowerStrip.  Are you saying that i815 doesn't do 15KHz?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 23, 2008, 02:58:09 pm
It does, but Soft-15kHz doesn't support it (yet).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on October 23, 2008, 03:21:56 pm
Well, that's good!  When will you put the function in there?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on October 23, 2008, 06:51:31 pm
Well, that's good!  When will you put the function in there?

Why don't you just put in a card and be done with it?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on October 24, 2008, 08:09:02 am
Well, that's good!  When will you put the function in there?

Why don't you just put in a card and be done with it?

No slots!  :D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: JAdamz01 on October 24, 2008, 10:20:54 am
I've been using the ArcadeVGA card (first version) with my arcade monitor, but I now want to use prescaling in MAME since I decided to hardware stretch my games (defeats the point of using an arcade monitor, I know ;)). So, I need a video card with a little more power than the ArcadeVGA for prescaling to run smoothly.

I tried using a modern nVidia 6800GT card in combination with Soft15KHz and Quickres, however I can't seem to get the resolutions working correctly. In the boot screens the monitor displays the picture split down the center, which I've read is to be expected. However, once Windows loads and the Soft15KHz drivers are supposed to kick in, the screen still remains split down the center with the right half the screen displayed on the left side of the monitor, then an area of black space, and then the left half of the screen is displayed on the right side of the monitor. This is at a resolution of 640x480 at 60Hz, as set by Quickres. Also, when I try to run arcade resolutions such as 321x240, the monitor appears to go out of sync and the image is distorted/rolling. These resolutions work fine using the ArcadeVGA, so I'm not sure what the problem is! Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on October 24, 2008, 10:23:09 am
Newer Radeons have a higher pixelclock limit (7.12mhz) and newer GeForce don't seem to support resolutions below 512x384.

How can you get the pixelclock limit of a video card?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on October 25, 2008, 09:18:52 pm
I've been using the ArcadeVGA card (first version) with my arcade monitor, but I now want to use prescaling in MAME since I decided to hardware stretch my games (defeats the point of using an arcade monitor, I know ;)). So, I need a video card with a little more power than the ArcadeVGA for prescaling to run smoothly.

I tried using a modern nVidia 6800GT card in combination with Soft15KHz and Quickres, however I can't seem to get the resolutions working correctly. In the boot screens the monitor displays the picture split down the center, which I've read is to be expected. However, once Windows loads and the Soft15KHz drivers are supposed to kick in, the screen still remains split down the center with the right half the screen displayed on the left side of the monitor, then an area of black space, and then the left half of the screen is displayed on the right side of the monitor. This is at a resolution of 640x480 at 60Hz, as set by Quickres. Also, when I try to run arcade resolutions such as 321x240, the monitor appears to go out of sync and the image is distorted/rolling. These resolutions work fine using the ArcadeVGA, so I'm not sure what the problem is! Any suggestions?

......if you're going to run hardware stretch, then don't do anything to it. Just run stock - ie: how Mame comes out of the zip file (albeit any filtering you might want to use). If you're using an arcade monitor that doesn't go up to VGA, then you're hosed. Hardware stretch blows at those resolutions, and in fact is intended for progressive scan, higher resolutions. And, this topic is out of place in this thread, mind.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on October 25, 2008, 11:20:14 pm
@ JAdamz01...

Ummon's right.  Also, check out sailorsat's other downloads like her mame patches for getting mame to properly hwstretch and the like.


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Epyx on October 29, 2008, 12:58:37 pm
Where are the other downloads located? Do you happen to have a link?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on October 29, 2008, 09:32:27 pm
Look in her sig.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on October 30, 2008, 05:06:55 am
I'm using an ATI X800XL and have been adding several custom resolutions.
I've found a used X800XL.
Does it work well?
Does it work with all resolutions? (also with lowest?)

Thx :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on October 31, 2008, 08:01:46 pm
Indeed.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on November 01, 2008, 02:38:02 pm
Indeed.

Gr8. Thx :)

I was thinking to use ADVV tool (DOS environment) to configure all resolutions and after that, to export the generated modelines from "advmame.rc" to "usermodes.txt". Hope it works... anyone tryed?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 01, 2008, 03:43:30 pm
Sure it works.

Stay tuned for my PSremote ;)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 01, 2008, 06:43:12 pm
- Project "PSremote" -
A "remote control" for PowerStrip to move/resize the image "on-the-fly" without rebooting or messing with the modelines.

Step 1: Move it!... *DONE*

Step 2: Resize it!... *DONE*

Step 3: Nice UI ala AdvV... *under construction*

Step 4: Go for world domination! ;D

--

Well my first real achivement is that I can move the image on screen without touching anything.
Next will be "resizing" of the screen, which most likely will be a little more complicatet that it seems.

As for now, It is just a "remote control" using PowerStrip (which is running the background to provide low-level access).

Stay tuned :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 02, 2008, 09:13:34 am
Well Well...
As for now, Soft-15kHz Build 44 is up.

New features are actually a Vista Support for NVidia, though It only works with 31kHz and higher. Can't do any further tests as for some reason I can't install Vista on my new test rig (simply "stops" at finalizing installation).

Also I fixed a small bug here and there, nothing really inventive.

PSremote is coming along quite fine, but for some reason PowerStrip seems to ---fudgesicle--- around something on my x1650.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on November 02, 2008, 10:58:12 am
So sailorsat, if i use my imagination on this PSremote, we can pre launch this application for a rom to correct the screen size and then play the game without borders :o ?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 02, 2008, 11:04:28 am
No, you switch to a specific resolution via quickres, and then "move and size" it till it fits your screen.
After that, this resolution will be saved so you don't need powerstrip anymore.

At least thats my current "goal" :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on November 02, 2008, 11:48:46 am
even better  :cheers:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on November 02, 2008, 12:09:26 pm
Well Well...
As for now, Soft-15kHz Build 44 is up.

New features are actually a Vista Support for NVidia, though It only works with 31kHz and higher. Can't do any further tests as for some reason I can't install Vista on my new test rig (simply "stops" at finalizing installation).

Also I fixed a small bug here and there, nothing really inventive.

PSremote is coming along quite fine, but for some reason PowerStrip seems to ---fudgesicle--- around something on my x1650.

Keep up the good work. I cant wait to use your completed PS Remote and tweak with my X1950XTX

Does Powerstrip allow ATI users to use Vista 64 are very low resolutions?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 02, 2008, 01:09:23 pm
Yes, but they will be added as 30hz or whatever to windows.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on November 02, 2008, 05:30:30 pm
- Project "PSremote" -
A "remote control" for PowerStrip to move/resize the image "on-the-fly" without rebooting or messing with the modelines.

Step 1: Move it!... *DONE*

Step 2: Resize it!... *DONE*

Step 3: Nice UI ala AdvV... *under construction*

Step 4: Go for world domination! ;D

--

Well my first real achivement is that I can move the image on screen without touching anything.
Next will be "resizing" of the screen, which most likely will be a little more complicatet that it seems.

As for now, It is just a "remote control" using PowerStrip (which is running the background to provide low-level access).

Stay tuned :)

 :o
GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   :notworthy: :notworthy:
This is finally "THE" killing feature. After that we can ask nothing more.

I feel that soon I can definitively archive advancemame  :notworthy:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on November 02, 2008, 08:41:05 pm


 :o
GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   :notworthy: :notworthy:
This is finally "THE" killing feature. After that we can ask nothing more.

I feel that soon I can definitively archive advancemame  :notworthy:

Yeah, maybe. Still have to create a bunch of special modes, for those who want to (and can) preserve refresh.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on November 03, 2008, 04:49:30 am
Right. The refresh is an important thing. I hope we can also adjust the refresh rates, like advv does :)

[EDIT] Regarding refresh: Mortal kombat builted in refresh (401 x 256 @ 53Hz) is wrong. From some mame releases, MK refresh rate is 54.81  ;)

There are several games where we can adjust refresh rates: Bubble Bobble (256x224 @ 59Hz), Snow Bros (256x224 @ 57.5Hz), R-Type I/II (384x256 @ 55Hz), Street Fighter saga (59.6 Hz), many NeoGeo games (320x224 @ 59.1Hz) and many others. With the new tool, all will be perfect :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 03, 2008, 11:37:24 am
Don't count on it. If you resize the image in height, you also alter the refresh rate.
If you MOVE it, timings stay the same.

For gods sake scrap that "perfect refresh" thingie. You don't win anything from it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on November 03, 2008, 11:49:40 am
Did you get those Intel modes in this release?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 03, 2008, 12:08:12 pm
Nope. Actually I don't have any Intel Board available atm.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on November 03, 2008, 12:27:45 pm
Blast!

*eagerly awaits*
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on November 04, 2008, 02:41:35 am
If you resize the image in height, you also alter the refresh rate.
If you MOVE it, timings stay the same.
Exactly. That's the reason why you have to mantain black borders (top / bottom) for many res. With Advv I use vertical resize to adjust the refresh rates.

For gods sake scrap that "perfect refresh" thingie. You don't win anything from it.
Ok, but if you run MK with that wrong refresh and v-sync enabled (and v-sync is very important imho), you will get stuttered choppy audio.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on November 04, 2008, 07:58:19 am
If you resize the image in height, you also alter the refresh rate.
If you MOVE it, timings stay the same.
Exactly. That's the reason why you have to mantain black borders (top / bottom) for many res. With Advv I use vertical resize to adjust the refresh rates.

For gods sake scrap that "perfect refresh" thingie. You don't win anything from it.
Ok, but if you run MK with that wrong refresh and v-sync enabled (and v-sync is very important imho), you will get stuttered choppy audio.

for choppy audio you can use

http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=9555

SoundSync
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on November 04, 2008, 09:22:36 am
Right I know, it's a great thing when you can't have right refresh rates. It has been also included in Mameui32FX (borrowed from SailorSat's).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on November 04, 2008, 09:06:39 pm
Don't count on it. If you resize the image in height, you also alter the refresh rate.
If you MOVE it, timings stay the same.

For gods sake scrap that "perfect refresh" thingie. You don't win anything from it.

Hahhaahhah. I like really smooth game display. Besides, Pac at 51hz just blows.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 05, 2008, 12:00:03 am
Reminds me on my "double Refresh" experiments... Pac-Man @121 Hz is pretty fun and very challenging ;D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on November 06, 2008, 02:11:51 pm
How did you manage that?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 06, 2008, 02:28:35 pm
throttle 0
frameskip 0
tripplebuffer 1

and an 120hz modeline :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Chase on November 07, 2008, 01:26:13 am
Hello SailorSat (and Everyone Else!),
I must say I love your software, and everything appears to be great!  But I do have a couple of questions:

First my specs:

D9400 WG 27 Inch Monitor
ATI Radeon X600SE 128mb (Running 6.5)
Installed Soft-15KHz

Questions:

1.)  Should I be creating a custom15khz file for my card?   Are there more resolutions that my card and monitor could support that I might be missing?

2.)  When I get a game that displays "Out Of Range" on the screen, what 'close' resolution should I set it for?   I'm getting this message on games like NBA Hangtime and WWF Wrestlemania and want to get them to display.

Thanks your your help Sailor (and everyone else!)

- Chase

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Xenepp on November 07, 2008, 02:51:59 am
I have a problem with Pacman, Space Invaders and older games, they seem to be split into 4 sections in the one screen? By that I mean on the screen there are 4 copies of the same game.

Do I need to add/remove custom resolutions? I'm using a geforce 6100 if that makes any difference.

Might I add though, Soft15khz is awswome and I can't thank you enough for it SailorSat!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 07, 2008, 05:26:48 am
First my specs:
D9400 WG 27 Inch Monitor
ATI Radeon X600SE 128mb (Running 6.5)
Installed Soft-15KHz
Nice setup :)



Questions:
1.)  Should I be creating a custom15khz file for my card?   Are there more resolutions that my card and monitor could support that I might be missing?

2.)  When I get a game that displays "Out Of Range" on the screen, what 'close' resolution should I set it for?   I'm getting this message on games like
NBA Hangtime and WWF Wrestlemania and want to get them to display.
1. there are thousands of resolutions, but most if not all are covered by the default ones.

2. Hm... should be the 401x256 resolution. Guess I'll generate a new one for you. You'll get a PM later.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Chase on November 07, 2008, 03:02:31 pm
You'll get a PM later.


Thanks Sailor!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 07, 2008, 10:07:47 pm
Wow...
Just happend I "accidently" got lowres modes workin on a GeForce 8400.

First what happend...
I installed the 8400GS, installed 15kHz modes and rebooted.
I get 640x480 in all its interlace glory, but no resolutions below. (as expected)

I pluged in a DELL 17" VGA Monitor and rebooted again.
As windows boot up again, the VGA shuts off as expected, I plug the arcade back in and have 640x480 interlace.
Taking a look at quickres I was pretty amazed to see 321x240 and co.
I tried several of those lowres modes and they all work fine.

After a long night tinkering around it seems that the forceware strictly limits resolution to default if no or an invalid EDID is received

The bad new is that I don't know how to fake a valid EDID or disable this limit.

For some unknown reason this only applies to GeForce 8, 9 and the newer 200 Series.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on November 08, 2008, 06:11:13 am
Recently got my crt tv working using a vga-scart cable on my radeon 9250 128mb card as suggested by sailorsat (thanks again)
Have to say it looks amazing but a few games are cropped at the top and bottom of screen.
I setup the custom15khz.txt uninstalled and re-installed and its still the same
3 of the games are Dkong, Bombjack and shinobi.
I think the 3 res I need are 256x224,256x240 and 288x224.
Could someone post me an example of how to do this please, I have tried a few different things so reckon I am just doing it wrong.
Thanks
Sham.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on November 08, 2008, 10:43:09 am
Wow...
Just happend I "accidently" got lowres modes workin on a GeForce 8400.

First what happend...
I installed the 8400GS, installed 15kHz modes and rebooted.
I get 640x480 in all its interlace glory, but no resolutions below. (as expected)

I pluged in a DELL 17" VGA Monitor and rebooted again.
As windows boot up again, the VGA shuts off as expected, I plug the arcade back in and have 640x480 interlace.
Taking a look at quickres I was pretty amazed to see 321x240 and co.
I tried several of those lowres modes and they all work fine.

After a long night tinkering around it seems that the forceware strictly limits resolution to default if no or an invalid EDID is received

The bad new is that I don't know how to fake a valid EDID or disable this limit.

For some unknown reason this only applies to GeForce 8, 9 and the newer 200 Series.


Anyway to contact nvidia driver team and ask? I assume this is just in XP and not Vista 64?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 08, 2008, 11:06:44 am
Actually this is only XP atm, yes.

I'm workin on an EDID Dongle right now.
this should fix that issue on XP and maybe also on Vista.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on November 08, 2008, 11:13:34 am
If only you can figure out how to get around the 32 modeline limitation.

Your a GoD salior.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: the720k on November 08, 2008, 12:42:49 pm
I want to say thank you for this excellent piece of software.  I am having an issue, though, and was wondering if I could get a little bit of advice. 

I am in the process of waiting for a defective ArcadeVGA card to be replaced from Ultimarc (Andy is really good about resolving problems when they happen, BTW!)  So I'm not likely to use this utility permanently, but while I'm waiting for my card to make its way to England and back, I am trying to get Soft15KHz to work with my old nVidia Geforce2 MX card.  I'm getting mixed results.

I installed ForceWare driver release 90 on my machine, set my resolution to 640x480, rebooted, and then installed the Soft15KHz "15kHz" mode.  Rebooted again, plugged my hacked VGA cable into the arcade monitor, and Windows started up in 15kHz mode.  However, the screen is automatically set to an emulated 1024x768 resolution, and extends my desktop all over the place.  My mouse will not work properly, as it is configured for 1024x768, and the display is actually running a lower resolution and just extending the desktop offscreen.  I can move the screen down a little bit, but cannot even make it to the taskbar, where I need to access Quickres. 

I am almost 100% positive that nVidia's utility is the source of this problem, but am unsure of what I need to do.  Should I try an older ForceWare driver?   :banghead:

If this turns out to be a really difficult issue, I can wait for my ArcadeVGA card to show up in a few weeks, but I miss my cocktail cabinet!  Plus, Soft15kHz is a really cool piece of code!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 08, 2008, 01:22:01 pm
Wow, a series 90 forceware on a GeForce2 ? :)
Give the 71.48 (or something like that) a try.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: the720k on November 08, 2008, 06:46:22 pm
Okay, I just switched to release 78.01, and similar problems.  I have set my resolution to 640x480, and only have about half the screen I should have.   To make matters worse, almost every resolution except for 640x480 throws my monitor out of sync.  It doesn't seem to matter if I change the resolution in Quickres or in the nVidia tool. 

I think I will have to try another card.  I know this should work with my current hardware configuration, but I'm not getting anywhere.  I thought I had a spare FX5200 lying around, but I think I may have given it away to a friend.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 08, 2008, 06:51:27 pm
Well sounds like your MX card doesn't support interlace :(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on November 08, 2008, 07:19:26 pm
throttle 0
frameskip 0
tripplebuffer 1

and an 120hz modeline :)

Oh. Right, of course. I forget these simple things sometimes. Definitely more interesting to me than using the speed hack. That to me seems suited for lamo youngens who can't handle the 'speed' of the game but would be daunted by a full speed-up. Of course, you don't need the 120hz modeline to play it that way, right?...just turn off throttle and....no, that makes it run at a few to several hundreds of percent - vs only 200 - and it is insane.

By the way, thought I'd share this with you. Recall I use Advancemame - well, in accordance with my monitor, for 224x256 games run horizontally it picks 18khz/59.9hz, and for 224x288 games run horizontally it normally picks 19khz/60.5hz and my monitor has a different mode for each. BUT, every now and then, for some indefinite period of time (neither of which I can figure out), it picks a 19khz/59.9hz for 224x288 games, in which case the two resolutions share the same mode - that .5 hz makes a difference - which is discouraging. It took me a few times to be sure I wasn't losing it, and that indeed it was changing and then changing back.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: the720k on November 08, 2008, 08:02:04 pm
Okay, so I removed the Geforce2 MX and installed a Geforce 6200, used the 78.01 drivers first.  Installation went well, but now when I try to run Soft15kHz, I get a "Runtime Error '5': Invalid procedure call or argument."  Same thing when I tried the release 90 driver. 

 :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Is there something I should be manually editing?  I'm lost here.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Xenepp on November 08, 2008, 08:03:19 pm
Quote
I have a problem with Pacman, Space Invaders and older games, they seem to be split into 4 sections in the one screen? By that I mean on the screen there are 4 copies of the same game.

Do I need to add/remove custom resolutions? I'm using a geforce 6100 if that makes any difference.

Might I add though, Soft15khz is awswome and I can't thank you enough for it SailorSat!

Any ideas? I found that also Ikari Warriors, Namco Classics Vol.1 and 2 and Galaga do this too.

Sorry to interrupt anyone else's questions.

 -Joel
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 08, 2008, 08:22:19 pm
Okay, so I removed the Geforce2 MX and installed a Geforce 6200, used the 78.01 drivers first.  Installation went well, but now when I try to run Soft15kHz, I get a "Runtime Error '5': Invalid procedure call or argument."  Same thing when I tried the release 90 driver. 

 :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Is there something I should be manually editing?  I'm lost here.

Hm... Give http://files.arianchen.de/soft15khz/soft15khz_beta.zip a try
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: the720k on November 08, 2008, 10:53:50 pm
Thanks, SailorSat.  That worked.  I'm still having trouble with getting other resolutions to work, but I think it's related to the nVidia driver, and doesn't seem like anything I can't tweak.  Once again, great work on this handy piece of software.   :cheers:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on November 10, 2008, 01:56:59 pm
Recently got my crt tv working using a vga-scart cable on my radeon 9250 128mb card as suggested by sailorsat (thanks again)
Have to say it looks amazing but a few games are cropped at the top and bottom of screen.
I setup the custom15khz.txt uninstalled and re-installed and its still the same
3 of the games are Dkong, Bombjack and shinobi.
I think the 3 res I need are 256x224,256x240 and 288x224.
Could someone post me an example of how to do this please, I have tried a few different things so reckon I am just doing it wrong.
Thanks
Sham.


Sorry to be a pain but can someone help me out with this?
Dying to play Donkey Kong.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on November 10, 2008, 05:30:33 pm
Recently got my crt tv working using a vga-scart cable on my radeon 9250 128mb card as suggested by sailorsat (thanks again)
Have to say it looks amazing but a few games are cropped at the top and bottom of screen.
I setup the custom15khz.txt uninstalled and re-installed and its still the same
3 of the games are Dkong, Bombjack and shinobi.
I think the 3 res I need are 256x224,256x240 and 288x224.
Could someone post me an example of how to do this please, I have tried a few different things so reckon I am just doing it wrong.
Thanks
Sham.


Sorry to be a pain but can someone help me out with this?
Dying to play Donkey Kong.
Thanks.

Those are the three main resolutions of the golden age there. However, I'm assuming, you're talking about those resolutions in reverse - ie: vertical games run horizontally - which means you have to choose a 352x... variant respective to each one. They still may not fit - you could try a resolution with a higher horizontal pixel count. As for Shinobi, that game is 320x224.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on November 11, 2008, 04:52:06 am
cheers for the reply
Shinobi doesn't bother me that much but donkey kong is unplayable as the bottom
Of the screen is cropped
I thought the only thing I had to do was add custom resolutions using the custom15khz.txt method
I tried this but think I did it wrong
I just need anexample of how I would add these 3 resolutions
Cheers
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 11, 2008, 11:36:55 am
You can't play vertical games on a horizontal TV without accessing the service menu and disable the "overscan".
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on November 11, 2008, 12:30:41 pm
thanks sailorsat
I will give that a go
Sorry to be a pest
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 11, 2008, 12:33:35 pm
Just try to get the service codes, then you can adjust the size.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sham69 on November 11, 2008, 02:19:51 pm
Got them and its done.
Looks great, all games are perfect.
Thanks once again I would be lost without this site and you especially Sailorsat.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Chase on November 12, 2008, 02:51:36 am
Hey Everyone,
What do you use as settings for Asteroids?

It looks kinda dark on my monitor.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on November 12, 2008, 08:51:11 pm
Hey Everyone,
What do you use as settings for Asteroids?

It looks kinda dark on my monitor.



The general idea is to use the highest resolution you can for all vector games. While one can have them displayed at 15khz, it's not recommended, and you aren't so hindered with your monitor. At the very least, use 640x480. Also, you might want to turn up the brightness for that game in Mame. Remember, it's a raster monitor displaying a vector monitor game. It's not gonna look anything like the original.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Chase on November 12, 2008, 09:20:27 pm
Hey Everyone,
What do you use as settings for Asteroids?

It looks kinda dark on my monitor.



The general idea is to use the highest resolution you can for all vector games. While one can have them displayed at 15khz, it's not recommended, and you aren't so hindered with your monitor. At the very least, use 640x480. Also, you might want to turn up the brightness for that game in Mame. Remember, it's a raster monitor displaying a vector monitor game. It's not gonna look anything like the original.

Thanks Ummon, I will try that.

Also, I have using Command Based MAME with Maxiums Arcade FE.   How would I increase the brightness in the INI for that particular game?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on November 13, 2008, 04:18:56 am
I have a sad problem.

I'm using a lightgun on the cab with the guncon2pc driver.

All works well, but when I use one of these resolutions, the lightgun completely stops to work. It's like if I disconnect it (when I press fire I can't also see the flash):

o 512 x 448 @ 60Hz Interlace
o 512 x 512 @ 60Hz Interlace
o 640 x 480 @ 60Hz Interlace  ---> BIG PROBLEM

I've tryed several configurations, but the prob is the same:
-AthlonXP with Ati ArcadeVGA
-Athlon64 with Ati ArcadeVGA
-Intel dual core with Ati X800XL, Catalyst 6.5 and Soft-15KHz.

These are the only configurations that works:
-AthlonXP with Nvidia Geforce FX 5200 and Soft-15KHz
-Athlon64 with Nvidia Geforce FX 5200 and Soft-15KHz
-**I guess** Intel dual core with a nvidia card and Soft-15KHz (**i have no nvidia pci-ex...**)

So, the prob are the Ati drivers?  :banghead:
What can I try?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on November 14, 2008, 01:47:30 pm
Phew.. I've solved.

Here what i've done (maybe useful to someone else):
I've edited the 640x480 modeline (the 480 now is the same as 720x480) and now it works!
With arcadeVGA there is no way. Soft-15KHz is great.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on November 14, 2008, 06:16:05 pm
Hey Everyone,
What do you use as settings for Asteroids?

It looks kinda dark on my monitor.



The general idea is to use the highest resolution you can for all vector games. While one can have them displayed at 15khz, it's not recommended, and you aren't so hindered with your monitor. At the very least, use 640x480. Also, you might want to turn up the brightness for that game in Mame. Remember, it's a raster monitor displaying a vector monitor game. It's not gonna look anything like the original.

Thanks Ummon, I will try that.

Also, I have using Command Based MAME with Maxiums Arcade FE.   How would I increase the brightness in the INI for that particular game?

You have three options:

- if using builds perhaps after .120: access it in-game via the tilde key on builds befor .127 or 8 - or via the tab menu>slider controls on those later builds - and play with the values. The features are automatically saved.

- look in the mame ini and see what the syntax is and copy it to the game's ini and modify the value.

- put a copy of Mame32/UI in the folder, start, and adjust in gui for game desired. Values will be same for most build of mame, and generally any version unless of different video era - ie: video re-write vs before it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: FrizzleFried on November 15, 2008, 05:51:06 pm
I am getting a "quad screen" at 352x246 and 352x264.  I am using a GeForce 7200GS I do believe it is.  Can anyone point me in the direction as to what to do to get these modes to work?  World Class Bowling,  Golden Tee and others use this mode and 352x240 cuts a portion of the score off, etc... help!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on November 15, 2008, 10:08:39 pm
hey FF try golden tee at 384X240 and WCB at 284X255 and let me know what you think  ;)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: FrizzleFried on November 15, 2008, 10:15:28 pm
hey FF try golden tee at 384X240 and WCB at 284X255 and let me know what you think  ;)

284x255?  I am still not exactly sure how to come up with my own custom resolutions.


BTW: Did you mean 384x255?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on November 15, 2008, 10:24:39 pm
yeah sorry about that I meant 384X240 60hrz

also are you using the same setting as you would as if it were the arcadevga card?

if not try using the same mame.ini settings to the T and also use the AVRES TOOL.

I dont think what I posted is a custom res but could be wrong.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: FrizzleFried on November 15, 2008, 10:38:49 pm
My problem isn't width,  it's height.  240 lines vertically isn't enough and the score gets cropped.  256 worked with the AVGA when I used to run it in this rig,  but I can't get that resolution (vertically) to work with Soft15khz and my Nvidia video card.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on November 15, 2008, 10:47:25 pm
Hmm I use a ati X1950 pro so that nvidia may be the problem but I get a full screen and correct display on mine with those setting.

let me post my custom.txt to see if it will work just put it in your soft15K folder straight up and then unintall and reinstall soft15K not off the C: drive but the gui/menu part of soft15K.

copy and save what I post as custom.txt only

;Remove some "too low" resolutions
remove 240x240
remove 256x240
remove 256x256
remove 256x264
remove 321x256

;ReAdd some "low" resolutions with higher pclock and (way) larger sync width
modeline '288x240@59.885' 7.12 288 332 392 448 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240@59.941' 7.12 296 338 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '304x240@59.305' 7.12 304 344 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '321x240@59.014' 7.12 321 350 392 448 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '336x240@59.749' 7.12 336 356 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: FrizzleFried on November 15, 2008, 10:59:25 pm
Pizza's here...as soon as I am done scarfing down I'll try `em out and report back.  Of course,  i assume if they don't work it's easy to get back to the other modes?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on November 15, 2008, 11:03:16 pm
yeah if it get's worse just go into the folder and delete the custom.txt and go back to the soft15K gui/menu and uninstall and reinsall and everything should go back to where we started.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: FrizzleFried on November 15, 2008, 11:37:36 pm
Well,  I installed... and I notice no difference.  Again,  my problem isn't width-wise,  but height wise...  240 lines isn't enough to display the entire screen on Shuffleshot, World Class Bowling, etc unless you turn on hardware stretching (I assume).  I am not sure how resolutions in the 240 vertical lines range is going to help me.

I need something in the 256 lines range.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: FrizzleFried on November 15, 2008, 11:48:56 pm
For shits and giggles I tried the 384 x 240 setting.... I admit it did show more image vertically but I did run in to this problem...

(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/PapaFriz/SHUFFLE1.jpg)

Foldover at the bottom.  The only way to eliminate the foldover with the monitor is to shrink the image to this...

(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/PapaFriz/SHUFFLE2.jpg)

Obviously not the ideal situation.  Any idea how to eliminate the foldover and retain the vertical picture size?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on November 15, 2008, 11:55:30 pm
I see yeah that would just convert what was removed over to 240 maybe sailor has something that can make them do 256 instead.


 Adjust V.size and H size to smallest setting then use V.pos and H.pos to center screen then redo the V.size and H.size to fill the screen since alot of games display in different res's it will alway's grow or shrink one way or another you just need to find the sweet spot where they all fit good perhaps.

 Also some monitors have a setting on the chassis harness where the screen can be displayed on a standard setting or a type of wide screen stretched type but I dont know the correct name it is called.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on November 16, 2008, 09:11:42 pm
For GT and WCB, the general mode to use is 384x288. (Although on my multisync I've found that 368x240 works better for GT.) As per the Ultimarc monitor FAQ, generally, more lines isn't a problem. It's less, as you're finding out, because you're using the wrong mode.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on November 16, 2008, 09:38:17 pm
I dunno where you got your info from  :notworthy:

Golden Tee '97 (c) 1997 Incredible Technologies.


- TECHNICAL -


Main CPU : 68EC020 (@ 25 Mhz), M6809 (@ 2 Mhz)

Sound Chips : ES5506 (@ 16 Mhz)


Screen orientation : Horizontal

Video resolution : 384 x 240 pixels

Screen refresh : 60.00 Hz

Palette colors : 32768

Control : trackball

Buttons : 2




World Class Bowling © 1995 Incredible Technologies.

Main CPU : 68000 (@ 12 Mhz), M6809 (@ 2 Mhz)
Sound Chips : ES5506 (@ 16 Mhz)

Screen orientation : Horizontal
Video resolution : 384 x 255 pixels
Screen refresh : 60.00 Hz
Palette colors : 32768

Players : 2
Control : trackball
Buttons : 2

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 17, 2008, 09:50:36 pm
News on the "Dongle".

It basicaly works as I've successfully unlocked a 8400GS and a 8600GT and both output even the very low resolution of 240x240 :)
God knows why NVidia implemented as "safe mode" or whatever...


For the hardware itself... Well actually I haven't tinkered out a good layout for the pcb yet...
One would think two VGA connectors (with not even all pins connected) and an 8 pin IC should be pretty simple to connect...
I just started fooling around with EAGLE and allready hate that thing  :banghead:


For the software part... The basic E-EDID works, though it only contains a modeline for 640x480 60Hz Interlace.
I guess I'll need some time with a documentation on the "DTD Extensions" sometime in the future.


And last but not least... Haven't tried it with my S3 cards yet.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 18, 2008, 10:32:22 am
Yet another funny fact...
I've setup a "default Timing" of 640x480 60Hz Interlaced, and guess what...
My 8400 boots up (in 31khz) and as soon as Windows loads up, it outputs 640x480 in 15kHz even without Soft-15kHz being installed.

Im curiuous for the things to come...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: krick on November 18, 2008, 05:10:52 pm
KVM switches do something with EDID so that you can boot your computer without the monitor being directly attached.  Is there some way we can hack a cheap KVM and use it as a makeshift dongle?


EDIT 1:  This looks like an interesting device.  I wonder if something like this exists for a VCA connection...
http://www.startech.com/item/DVIEDIDDET-DVI-EDID-Capture-Detective-Box.aspx

EDIT 2:  Here's something for VGA...
http://www.hallresearch.com/page/Home/Products/Miscellaneous/EDID_Management/EM-EDID-HD15

EDIT 3:  Here's someone making their own EDID circuit for a PSOne LCD.  Very promising...
http://freespace.virgin.net/john.laura/Hacking%20a%20PSOne%20LCD.htm
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on November 18, 2008, 08:23:21 pm
I dunno where you got your info from  :notworthy:

You mean me?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: alui on November 18, 2008, 10:50:17 pm
SailorSat, I downloaded build 44 and tried to run it just now.  However, it got stuck at the "creating backup ..." part after I clicked on "Install 15kHz".  I was using build 36 before this and that has been working fine.  Can you tell me what I'm doing wrong (I'm running WinXP Pro).  Just wanted to try out the new build.

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on November 18, 2008, 11:44:24 pm
I dunno where you got your info from  :notworthy:

You mean me?

 Yup you stated the mode was wrong and posted/suggested 2 incorrect displays for both games instead.

 You also stated that the ultimarc faq states more lines is the problem when that is false also it is the low res's that are required if you want a true native display not the higher one's.

 Also I posted what both of them games actually run on from their manufacture and if you want them to look authentic and native then run them at what they were supposed to be ran at is all.

that is why I posted that I dunno where you got that info from  :dunno
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 19, 2008, 01:05:42 am
KVM switches do something with EDID so that you can boot your computer without the monitor being directly attached.  Is there some way we can hack a cheap KVM and use it as a makeshift dongle?

EDIT 2:  Here's something for VGA...
http://www.hallresearch.com/page/Home/Products/Miscellaneous/EDID_Management/EM-EDID-HD15

Sure you can use a KVM switch for that but...
The problem with those "cheap" KVMs is that they actually aren't cheap.
That EM-EDID-HD15 looks exactly like what I'm going to do, but it is listed for about 70 bucks.
Actually I'm even using something like that (a DVI Detective, 60€ over here) as a "test rig" for my EDID data.

The PSOne Hack pretty much uses the same IC that I'm working with, except mine has twice the capacity (24LC22A).



SailorSat, I downloaded build 44 and tried to run it just now.  However, it got stuck at the "creating backup ..." part after I clicked on "Install 15kHz".

Hm...
That's interresting.
You DID extract it into an own directory did you? Running it from the ZIP shouldn't work too well.
Any other informations? What card/driver do you use (i.e. ATI or NVidia?)

Normaly "creating backup" means It tries to export the registry via a batch file and is waiting for that registry dump to be created.
Haven't touched these routines in ages.



For shits and giggles I tried the 384 x 240 setting.... I admit it did show more image vertically but I did run in to this problem...

Obviously not the ideal situation.  Any idea how to eliminate the foldover and retain the vertical picture size?

Hm...
Try tinkering around with the modeline a bit. (put it in custom15khz.txt)

modeline '352x256' 7.28 352 368 400 440 256 257 260 272 -hsync -vsync
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on November 19, 2008, 03:28:05 am
SailorSat, I downloaded build 44 and tried to run it just now.  However, it got stuck at the "creating backup ..." part after I clicked on "Install 15kHz".  I was using build 36 before this and that has been working fine.  Can you tell me what I'm doing wrong (I'm running WinXP Pro).  Just wanted to try out the new build.

Thanks

I had the same problem, solved putting soft-15KHz from a directory directly to "C:\" (root).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on November 19, 2008, 03:44:33 am

 Yup you stated the mode was wrong and posted/suggested 2 incorrect displays for both games instead.

 You also stated that the ultimarc faq states more lines is the problem when that is false also it is the low res's that are required if you want a true native display not the higher one's.

 Also I posted what both of them games actually run on from their manufacture and if you want them to look authentic and native then run them at what they were supposed to be ran at is all.

that is why I posted that I dunno where you got that info from  :dunno

You might want to re-read what I said there. Further, there's no reason Friz can't create his own special modes for those games, but there's generally no reason to, which is why Andy didn't.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: alui on November 19, 2008, 05:51:04 pm

SailorSat, I downloaded build 44 and tried to run it just now.  However, it got stuck at the "creating backup ..." part after I clicked on "Install 15kHz".

Hm...
That's interresting.
You DID extract it into an own directory did you? Running it from the ZIP shouldn't work too well.
Any other informations? What card/driver do you use (i.e. ATI or NVidia?)

Normaly "creating backup" means It tries to export the registry via a batch file and is waiting for that registry dump to be created.
Haven't touched these routines in ages.


I figured out what's wrong.  I renamed my folder to "soft-15khz (Build 44)".  Apparent it didn't like the () in the folder name.  After I took them out, I was able to run/install it fine.  Incidentally, what's new in this build compared to build 36.

Also, is there any way for me to tell from the modeline alone what kHz it's for?T What if I mistakenly put a 25kHz modeline into the custom15khz.txt file and installed it?

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 20, 2008, 12:05:42 am
Also, is there any way for me to tell from the modeline alone what kHz it's for?
What if I mistakenly put a 25kHz modeline into the custom15khz.txt file and installed it?

Sure there is... Calculations ;)
Well... Actually Soft-15kHz doesn't check if your modelines are in range, so It simply would install them if you placed them in custom15khz.txt and installed 15kHz modes.

Most likely the same would happen as if you run a normal 31kHz BIOS screen into your monitor...
IF you get anything at all, it's a scrambled image on the screen, and in some cases, your monitor will run hot after some time if you don't feed it a "correct" signal.

-- Calculations explained from a modeline example --


1. Get some values from the modeline

modeline '352x256' 7.28 352 368 400 440 256 257 260 272 -hsync -vsync

7.28 = Pixelclock in MHz
440 = Total Pixels Horizontal
272 = Total Lines Vertical (basically still pixels)



2. Get the Vertical Refresh

(7.28 MHz * 1000 * 1000) / (440 px * 272 lines) =
7280000 Hz / 119680 px = ~60,83 Hz


7280000 = Pixelclock in Hz
119680 = Total Pixels
60,83 = Refreshrate in Hz



3. Get the total line count

272 lines * 60,83 Hz = 16545,76 Hz = 16,5 kHz

16kHz is still in many monitors range and is called "extended resolution"
See http://www.arcadeguy.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7&Itemid=29
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: subedriver on November 20, 2008, 02:45:31 pm
I have a ati radeon 9250 pci that i'm using the soft 15 program with.  i still have my pc monitor hooked up to my onboard so i can see what i'm doing and the arcade monitor hooked up to the ati card.  Its set as a secondary on the ati.  I ran soft 15 and install the 15khz option.  I am also using a jpac.  I have a picture on my monitor but it's split in two and seems fuzzy.  It does this with the jumper just on the 15khz side on the jpac and with it on the 15hz and the 31khz which it should do during boot and then to normal screen.  Any idea on what else I need to do?  Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: alui on November 20, 2008, 05:28:05 pm
Also, is there any way for me to tell from the modeline alone what kHz it's for?
What if I mistakenly put a 25kHz modeline into the custom15khz.txt file and installed it?

Sure there is... Calculations ;)
Well... Actually Soft-15kHz doesn't check if your modelines are in range, so It simply would install them if you placed them in custom15khz.txt and installed 15kHz modes.

Most likely the same would happen as if you run a normal 31kHz BIOS screen into your monitor...
IF you get anything at all, it's a scrambled image on the screen, and in some cases, your monitor will run hot after some time if you don't feed it a "correct" signal.

-- Calculations explained from a modeline example --


1. Get some values from the modeline

modeline '352x256' 7.28 352 368 400 440 256 257 260 272 -hsync -vsync

7.28 = Pixelclock in MHz
440 = Total Pixels Horizontal
272 = Total Lines Vertical (basically still pixels)



2. Get the Vertical Refresh

(7.28 MHz * 1000 * 1000) / (440 px * 272 lines) =
7280000 Hz / 119680 px = ~60,83 Hz


7280000 = Pixelclock in Hz
119680 = Total Pixels
60,83 = Refreshrate in Hz



3. Get the total line count

272 lines * 60,83 Hz = 16545,76 Hz = 16,5 kHz

16kHz is still in many monitors range and is called "extended resolution"
See http://www.arcadeguy.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7&Itemid=29

Thanks SailorSat.  This really helps.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: AloneIBreak on November 20, 2008, 07:36:51 pm
Hi there
I am using a 9200 SE and Soft15Khz.
I have Windows currently at 321x240 and everything seems ok.
But then when I go to MAME it seems to be flickering.

Do I need to have a custom resolution for each game?
For example , Metal Slug X have a screen resolution of 304x224.
Do I need to run at that resolution to stop flickering?
or the same resolution all the time ?

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on November 21, 2008, 02:55:06 am
when I go to MAME it seems to be flickering

If it flickers you are using an interlaced resolution.

Use this settings for mame:
HARDWARE STRETCH MUST BE OFF
YOU MUST USE DIRECT-DRAW NOT DIRECT3D
SWITCH RESOLUTIONS MUST BE ENABLED

The command-line switches to do this if running Mame from a command line are:
-video ddraw -nohwstretch -switchres

Mame can pick the best resolution, but it will not always work. There are some tools that generates ini files with resolutions for all games, but they didn't worked very well for me.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on November 22, 2008, 08:41:38 pm
The command-line switches to do this if running Mame from a command line are:
-video ddraw -nohwstretch -switchres

Ohhhh. I never understood till now the syntax. I was always mimicing the ini file and adding a value after the parametre.


Quote
Mame can pick the best resolution, but it will not always work. There are some tools that generates ini files with resolutions for all games, but they didn't worked very well for me.

It will pick the best resolution out of what's available to it - eg: what have been loaded via soft15.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on November 25, 2008, 04:06:17 pm
- Project "PSremote" -
A "remote control" for PowerStrip to move/resize the image "on-the-fly" without rebooting or messing with the modelines.

Step 1: Move it!... *DONE*

Step 2: Resize it!... *DONE*

Step 3: Nice UI ala AdvV... *under construction*

Step 4: Go for world domination! ;D

--

Well my first real achivement is that I can move the image on screen without touching anything.
Next will be "resizing" of the screen, which most likely will be a little more complicatet that it seems.

As for now, It is just a "remote control" using PowerStrip (which is running the background to provide low-level access).

Stay tuned :)

Hey Sailor how's your project going on?
I'm very anxious to see it  ;D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 25, 2008, 04:10:47 pm
Actually PowerStrip seems to be messing something up.
It basically works however.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on November 25, 2008, 04:24:46 pm
Actually PowerStrip seems to be messing something up.
It basically works however.

Not sure what your problem is, but I recall ages ago having lots of trouble with powerstrip and low pclocks - it would lockup/go really slow/be generally weird without a clean error message when you set it to a display with a low pclock.

 The author lowered the pclock floor for me a couple of times in some old betas which were successful in removing the problem. I believe these changes remain. Can't remember what the current hardcoded floor is, think it was below 5Mhz...

(no idea what issue you are having though)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 25, 2008, 04:31:22 pm
The issue actually is that I read a "timing string" from powerstrip, and write it back without modifications, which SHOULDN'T change anything at all, however it actually messes the cards output completely...

Happens both with a good old Matrox Millenium PCI, as well as several other cards I've tried.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silver on November 25, 2008, 04:36:27 pm
Ah, in that case can't help... only time I've had problems anything like that is when it turns out there is plenty of difference with UTF-8 vs UTF-16 vs whatever-txt-encoding.... just not easy to see!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Nemss316 on November 25, 2008, 05:34:56 pm
I'm having some trouble on my config. as well, and am trying to figure out what to do.

I have my mame.ini files set to hwstretch 1 switchres 0. I get full screen on my games w/ no issues; but the problem i'm having is that some of my games aren't 100% smooth. SF2 for instance, when I throw a fireball, sometimes it disappears from the screen. When the player is still, the game displays perfect. But when I jump, its almost as if the game gets "jittery". Same goes for the rest of the SF games, and some other games as well. I can play the games, but when I see them run on my LCD, i realize how much cleaner the games are running on my regular PC.

FYI: I'm running a 2.4 P4, 1.5 GB of RAM, onboard sound, GeForce FX 5200. I'm using Soft15Khz, and d/l the AutoRes tool from Ultimarc. My MAME version is .112

Any Ideas?

Thanks,

Jason
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on November 25, 2008, 06:08:49 pm
I'm having some trouble on my config. as well, and am trying to figure out what to do.

I have my mame.ini files set to hwstretch 1 switchres 0.

you got the two backwards  :angel:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Nemss316 on November 25, 2008, 09:24:36 pm
I switched them around, and SF2 and most of my other games are small and centered w/ huge black borders around it.

Did I miss something?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on November 26, 2008, 02:40:47 am
Try using these settings:
Use this settings for mame:
HARDWARE STRETCH MUST BE OFF
YOU MUST USE DIRECT-DRAW NOT DIRECT3D
SWITCH RESOLUTIONS MUST BE ENABLED

The command-line switches to do this if running Mame from a command line are:
-video ddraw -nohwstretch -switchres
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 26, 2008, 01:23:00 pm
Behold! The Immolator!... Err... Whatever ;D

http://files.arianchen.de/soft15khz/psremote.zip <- consider IT a "proof of concept" plaything...

Controls are...

ESC = Fallback to defaults
ENTER = exit tool

Up/Down/Left/Right = Move the image (if possible)

Page Up/Page Down = Shrink/Expand image in height

Delete/End = Shrink/Expand image in width.


However please not that for some reason Shrinkin/Expanding the image most likely ---smurfs--- up powerstrip.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: FrizzleFried on November 26, 2008, 01:32:20 pm
Runtime Error 9 - Subscript out of range?

That's what I get when I attempt to run `er.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 26, 2008, 01:42:41 pm
You need to have PowerStrip running ;)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on November 26, 2008, 06:01:35 pm
I switched them around, and SF2 and most of my other games are small and centered w/ huge black borders around it.

Did I miss something?


Try using these settings:
Use this settings for mame:
HARDWARE STRETCH MUST BE OFF
YOU MUST USE DIRECT-DRAW NOT DIRECT3D
SWITCH RESOLUTIONS MUST BE ENABLED

The command-line switches to do this if running Mame from a command line are:
-video ddraw -nohwstretch -switchres


Even more so, Nem needs to learn how to use mame, or mame32/UI as it's all in front of you then.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on November 26, 2008, 06:03:45 pm
You need to have PowerStrip running ;)

I remember seeing something like this in Power Strip itself but perhaps more complicated? Essentially your tool is just a specialized app to make PS do this without having to delve into it? And it's not necessary to load modes via PS, just have it running, right?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 27, 2008, 12:32:55 am
Yup.
Basically you would need to define hotkeys, as the default PowerStrip Controls don't work too well with lower resolutions.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on November 28, 2008, 09:47:23 am
I've tryed the PSRemote.
It worked well for some resolutions.
With 321x240 and 304x240 when I've tryed to move the image, all screwed up, and I had to restart (esc key hasn't worked). After reboot, I had again the screwed up res. At second reboot it returned ok to 640x480.

One question: when you hit enter, it saves the modeline modified in the registry? To return at initial point I have to do an unistall-install?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 28, 2008, 10:46:19 am
Actually PowerStrip saves whatever resolution you tweaked...
To get back to stock, just don't start powerstrip :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on November 28, 2008, 07:50:09 pm
Gotta love beta testing.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Texasmame on December 01, 2008, 12:56:24 pm
I'm using a T.V.

Would there be any benefit to me using this software?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on December 02, 2008, 09:02:34 pm
I'm using a T.V.

Would there be any benefit to me using this software?

I don't think any standard TV's will multisync to different resolutions / refresh rates, etc.  So no.


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 03, 2008, 12:08:33 am
Infact they do, as long as the signal is 15khz, and is fed via RGB.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Texasmame on December 04, 2008, 12:51:22 pm
K.  Thx.  Using SVid, so looks like a no here.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on December 04, 2008, 07:51:10 pm
Try 640x480 interlaced. This is a default mode as long as 31khz modes aren't loaded (in which case it becomes VGA).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on December 06, 2008, 06:48:37 am
Has anyone a 640x240@50Hz modeline (for Amiga games)?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shiloh on December 15, 2008, 11:32:36 pm
Hello everyone

Today I received a new WG D9800 monitor for my cab. I do have an ArcadeVGA in my cab but I am testing on a separate computer Soft15khz and the new monitor to see if I'll switch to soft15k in my cab when installing the monitor.

So far it was pretty easy. However when I run games in standard resolution, they look good, I would say as good as my old standard resolution WG with the ArcadeVGA, but the OSD on the D9800 says it's running at a 31khz resolution not 15k.

what's wrong?

I am using a 6800gt with forceware 93.71. I have removed some modes to make sure there was less than 32 resolutions defined. Mame is set to ddraw, hwstretch off and swtichres on. I made sure that mame use the right resolution (checked by using the verbose mode or forcing the right resolution)

medium resolution seems to be ok and are reported as 25khz by the monitor OSD.

thanks all, much appreciated.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on December 16, 2008, 04:53:08 pm
are you using the avres tool from ultimarc so that mame runs them at the correct display res or are you using stock mame res settings wich would give you 31K mode's
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shiloh on December 16, 2008, 06:10:57 pm
I didnt use AVRES but I have done INI files for the ROM I use to make sure the games run in the correct 15K resolution. I have confirmed that it is in fact the case but turning on verbose mode on MAME and checking the used resolution. Mame is definitely using the correct 15k resolution
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: random92 on December 17, 2008, 11:23:18 am
Hey lads...what I want to know is, is it possible to output 240p to a normal crt tv by component? No SCART tvs in the US, unfortunately.
I have a radeon HD2900 if that matters. 480i just looks terrible for classic games. I used to think it looked decent until I bothered to play my old systems again.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on December 17, 2008, 05:03:46 pm
I didnt use AVRES but I have done INI files for the ROM I use to make sure the games run in the correct 15K resolution. I have confirmed that it is in fact the case but turning on verbose mode on MAME and checking the used resolution. Mame is definitely using the correct 15k resolution


....some good pictures of the display running, if you can. And it's possible, as with my 6200, that your 6800 is doubling the refresh. What does it say in the OSD in-game on that?


Hey lads...what I want to know is, is it possible to output 240p to a normal crt tv by component? No SCART tvs in the US, unfortunately.
I have a radeon HD2900 if that matters. 480i just looks terrible for classic games. I used to think it looked decent until I bothered to play my old systems again.


What systems? If you mean console, they were all on SD TVs, which of course were 480i.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shiloh on December 17, 2008, 06:13:27 pm
I didnt use AVRES but I have done INI files for the ROM I use to make sure the games run in the correct 15K resolution. I have confirmed that it is in fact the case but turning on verbose mode on MAME and checking the used resolution. Mame is definitely using the correct 15k resolution


....some good pictures of the display running, if you can. And it's possible, as with my 6200, that your 6800 is doubling the refresh. What does it say in the OSD in-game on that?




I did some more test. I uninstalled soft15k and re-installed with only the 15k mode enabled. The desktop now appear in interlaced 640x480 and the D9800 OSD report a 15.7khz frequency.

Next I started mame with pacman. The monitor still shows a 31Khz resolution with pacman so it seems that my videocard is definitely doubling the lines.

is there something that need to be tweaked to have a 15k resolution or I need to switch to another card?

Pictures are available here: http://cid-e4ecfba58f51d061.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Public?authkey=IDiSaNorwhM%24

here is the verbose output of mame -v pacman:


Parsing mame.ini
Parsing mame.ini
Video: Monitor 00010001 = "\\.\DISPLAY1" (primary)
DirectDraw: Using DirectDraw 7
DirectDraw: Configuring device NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT
Target refresh = 60.606061
DirectDraw: Selecting video mode...
   640x 480@ 60Hz -> 63.906187
   256x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.276497
   256x 264@ 60Hz -> 62.281695
   288x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.273001
   296x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.272416
   304x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.271903
   321x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.271001
   321x 256@ 60Hz -> 62.271844
   336x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.270362
   352x 256@ 60Hz -> 62.270362
   352x 264@ 60Hz -> 62.270687
   352x 288@ 60Hz -> 70.016089
   368x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.269333
   384x 288@ 60Hz -> 68.475332
   392x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.268760
   401x 256@ 60Hz -> 62.268913
   448x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.267814
   512x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.267119
   512x 288@ 60Hz -> 65.724359
   512x 448@ 60Hz -> 64.491323
   512x 512@ 60Hz -> 64.213469
   632x 264@ 60Hz -> 62.266461
   640x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.266302
   640x 288@ 60Hz -> 64.662233
   720x 480@ 60Hz -> 63.715530
   800x 600@ 60Hz -> 63.389011
  1024x 768@ 60Hz -> 63.044791
DirectDraw: Mode selected =  352x 288@ 60Hz
DirectDraw: primary surface created: 352x288x32 (R=00FF0000 G=0000FF00 B=000000FF)
DirectDraw: New blit size = 224x288
DirectDraw: blit surface created: 224x288x32 (R=00FF0000 G=0000FF00 B=000000FF)
DirectSound: Primary buffer: 48000 Hz, 16 bits, 2 channels
RawInput: APIs detected
Input: Adding Mouse #1: \??\HID#Vid_045e&Pid_0713&Col02#7&ccc6a60&0&0001#{378de44c-56ef-11d1-bc8c-00a0c91405dd}
Input: Adding Gun #1: \??\HID#Vid_045e&Pid_0713&Col02#7&ccc6a60&0&0001#{378de44c-56ef-11d1-bc8c-00a0c91405dd}
Input: Adding Kbd #1: \??\HID#Vid_06a3&Pid_8020&MI_00#7&21e641d9&0&0000#{884b96c3-56ef-11d1-bc8c-00a0c91405dd}
DirectInput: Using DirectInput 7
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: random92 on December 18, 2008, 12:19:27 pm

What systems? If you mean console, they were all on SD TVs, which of course were 480i.

no, sir, they were not. they displayed at 15kHZ progressive. if anyone kows how to get a computer to give this kind of a signal to regular tv through s-video/component please share. it doesn't look like you can, however,....
thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on December 19, 2008, 09:10:19 pm

What systems? If you mean console, they were all on SD TVs, which of course were 480i.

no, sir, they were not. they displayed at 15kHZ progressive. if anyone kows how to get a computer to give this kind of a signal to regular tv through s-video/component please share. it doesn't look like you can, however,....
thanks

I don't know what consoles you're talking about that wouldn't be used on a TV. Maybe an EDO or something?




I did some more test. I uninstalled soft15k and re-installed with only the 15k mode enabled. The desktop now appear in interlaced 640x480 and the D9800 OSD report a 15.7khz frequency.

Ahn-huh, notice the refresh. It's 101hz. It still gives natural scanlines - check my sig to learn why - but the refresh is doubled, or close to. However, there could be a cap to that on your monitor, meaning some games will need a range of up to 125hz to be able to display.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 20, 2008, 04:05:00 am
I did some more test. I uninstalled soft15k and re-installed with only the 15k mode enabled. The desktop now appear in interlaced 640x480 and the D9800 OSD report a 15.7khz frequency.

Next I started mame with pacman. The monitor still shows a 31Khz resolution with pacman so it seems that my videocard is definitely doubling the lines.

Does that happen on "more" resolutions or just one or two?
Test with quickres pls.

Right now I'm pretty clueless, as I've heard of that problem (NVidia only) several times now, but can't reproduce it on any of my cards :(

*EDIT*
You're sure you only remove resolutions with the customXXkhz.txt files?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 20, 2008, 04:19:01 am
no, sir, they were not. they displayed at 15kHZ progressive. if anyone kows how to get a computer to give this kind of a signal to regular tv through s-video/component please share. it doesn't look like you can, however,....

You're right, however I don't know enough about that TV encoder chips.
All I can tell is that they resample the image from the framebuffer :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: shiloh on December 20, 2008, 09:50:17 am
I did some more test. I uninstalled soft15k and re-installed with only the 15k mode enabled. The desktop now appear in interlaced 640x480 and the D9800 OSD report a 15.7khz frequency.

Next I started mame with pacman. The monitor still shows a 31Khz resolution with pacman so it seems that my videocard is definitely doubling the lines.

Does that happen on "more" resolutions or just one or two?
Test with quickres pls.

Right now I'm pretty clueless, as I've heard of that problem (NVidia only) several times now, but can't reproduce it on any of my cards :(

*EDIT*
You're sure you only remove resolutions with the customXXkhz.txt files?

I went thru all resolution with Quickres. 640x240 and 640x288 works fine and display in 15khz. all other resolutions are linedoubled.

I've found a cheap Radeon 9600 on ebay so I went ahead and bought it. That should fix it :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: random92 on December 21, 2008, 03:42:40 am
no, sir, they were not. they displayed at 15kHZ progressive. if anyone kows how to get a computer to give this kind of a signal to regular tv through s-video/component please share. it doesn't look like you can, however,....

You're right, however I don't know enough about that TV encoder chips.
All I can tell is that they resample the image from the framebuffer :)

Ah, no problem. Thanks for the response anyway, Sailorsat.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: JayL6 on December 22, 2008, 07:29:50 am
I did some more test. I uninstalled soft15k and re-installed with only the 15k mode enabled. The desktop now appear in interlaced 640x480 and the D9800 OSD report a 15.7khz frequency.

Next I started mame with pacman. The monitor still shows a 31Khz resolution with pacman so it seems that my videocard is definitely doubling the lines.

Does that happen on "more" resolutions or just one or two?
Test with quickres pls.

Right now I'm pretty clueless, as I've heard of that problem (NVidia only) several times now, but can't reproduce it on any of my cards :(

*EDIT*
You're sure you only remove resolutions with the customXXkhz.txt files?

I went thru all resolution with Quickres. 640x240 and 640x288 works fine and display in 15khz. all other resolutions are linedoubled.

I've found a cheap Radeon 9600 on ebay so I went ahead and bought it. That should fix it :)



Hi Shiloh,

I think that you have made the right choice in getting a different video card.  I had exactly the same problem as you trying to get soft-15KHz working with my 6800gt, it just wouldn't display the low resolutions at 15k.

Think that I tried everything, then gave up.  I then replaced my video card with a 7600gt and Soft-15KHz works flawlessly with it.

I haven't tried an ArcadeVGA video card, but the results that I get from soft-15KHz make the games on my arcade monitor look identical to how I remember them looking in a real arcade.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on December 26, 2008, 06:53:01 am
Ahn-huh, notice the refresh. It's 101hz. It still gives natural scanlines - check my sig to learn why - but the refresh is doubled, or close to. However, there could be a cap to that on your monitor, meaning some games will need a range of up to 125hz to be able to display.

Be careful of this however!!. My tri-sync monitor like 95% of other tri-sync monitors are not that great when displaying 15khz modes, you'll probably notice the right hand side of the screen will be compressed/squished. I sorted this problem out by using Mames built in resolution, which gave a perfect 15khz type display (natural scanlines) but was displaying in 31khz mode, as it was doubling the refresh rate, and had no compression on the right hand side of the screen what so ever, so was really pleased!!! But!.....my monitor specs are only up to 90hz on the horizontal refresh, and have been informed that running over this (in your case 101hz to 125hz) will in time cause your monitor to fail, so be very careful. As i didnt want my monitor to fail (not sure if it ever would, but to be on the safe side) i had to go back to the 15khz display modes for 15khz games and put up with the compression on the right hand side  :'(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: random92 on December 27, 2008, 08:50:58 pm
Infact they do, as long as the signal is 15khz, and is fed via RGB.

Hmmm, should something like this work for normal TVs that accept Y-Pb-Pr only? An adapter like this can transcode the PC signal to the YPbPr mode. If the PC signal is 15kHz, no problem?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lettuce on December 28, 2008, 06:13:46 am
Does the latest version of soft15KHz work with the latest Nvidia drivers??
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: GaijinPunch on December 28, 2008, 11:13:29 pm
Okay, I'm looking to downsize my emulation machine (IE, make it smaller) so I need a low-profile solution.  That means AVGA is out, unfortunately.  Seems there's a lot of issues w/ some cards.  Don't suppose there's a master list of recommended chip sets w/ Soft15khz? 

EDIT: The other option is to use the onboard card (Intel Graphics Accelerator GM4500) although I have very little faith that that will work.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 29, 2008, 02:33:18 am
Okay, I'm looking to downsize my emulation machine (IE, make it smaller) so I need a low-profile solution.  That means AVGA is out, unfortunately.  Seems there's a lot of issues w/ some cards.  Don't suppose there's a master list of recommended chip sets w/ Soft15khz?
If it hasn't to be the newest model, then I'd say grab an Radeon 7000 - Radeon 9250, as they are available in LowProfile, and work fine. (Use Catalyst 6.5)

EDIT: The other option is to use the onboard card (Intel Graphics Accelerator GM4500) although I have very little faith that that will work.
It most likely works, but only with a maximum of 5 resolutions. I don't believe Intel changed that limit yet.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: GaijinPunch on December 29, 2008, 04:21:17 am
Cheers -- I'll go hunting for a Radeon. ;)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on December 30, 2008, 11:47:40 am
no, sir, they were not. they displayed at 15kHZ progressive. if anyone knows how to get a computer to give this kind of a signal to regular tv through s-video/component please share. it doesn't look like you can, however,....

You're right, however I don't know enough about that TV encoder chips.
All I can tell is that they resample the image from the framebuffer :)

Ah, no problem. Thanks for the response anyway, Sailorsat.

This is my eternal struggle.
I almost finished my cab last week and I'm starting to divert my attention to software and video signal again.  This is the one area I would like to resolve the most.  I took the kids to Chuck E. Cheese's last Saturday and had a chance to look at a Donkey Kong machine.  The 240p output is noticeably different than what I get at 480i on my TV through component and the interlaced  flickering on my TV is what bothers me the most.  Try playing Tetris at 480i for a while close to the TV and you'll almost go blind.  Also, you can see line combing on moving images even with tripple-buffer enabled and no screen tearing visible which I don't recall seeing on original arcade machines (notice yesterday playing Shinobi). 

I have an nVidia 8500GT card with the latest drivers and plan to start playing with the custom resolutions.
The good thing about nVidia drivers is that you have much more access to operation parameters than ATI (I'm never going back to ATI) and you can specify a whole custom modeline through the driver.  The question is whether the TV encoder chip will honor the specification
I have some reading to do to get reacquainted with modelines as I haven't looked into it for a year now (too much Wii playing, cab woodwork, etc.).  So I'll see where that takes me and post any interesting findings I might come across.

If anyone is farther along on this, please share what you know.

Regards.

Hi SailorSat.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on December 30, 2008, 11:51:43 am
By the way, one expensive way to get around this is to purchase a transcoder that converts VGA signals to YPbPr but leaves the timing alone so that you can control it with Soft15KHz or WinModelines but last time I looked you had to fork out about $80 which I'm not willing to do and there is no guranatee you'll get it to work.

I've also seen cicuits posted for people to build by themselves but are a bit complicated and require programmable chips which you have to program yourself; not so user-friendly either.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: random92 on January 07, 2009, 12:30:10 am
Sorry for the late reply.
Yo, those vga -> yuv transcoders look like they'll work. There is the expensive audio authority one, and a cheaper one by RCA. I think they should work since people have apparently used them to convert the RGB signals of old consoles to yuv so that they can hook it up to HDTVs that can't accept RGB signals(I think). I think I would be willing to pay for one if it I can play arcade and console classics at the right resolutions.

A couple of newbie questions:
Is a gma 500 compatible? If I want to use a cheap laptop..

If the windows resolution is set so low, how can you navigate/run programs?


by the way, themanual, if you get low resolutions from your nvidia card tv out encoder, let me know :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: richms on January 07, 2009, 06:03:16 pm
Look for a scart to component adapter -Do the same thing but not the HD modes so should be cheaper.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on January 09, 2009, 01:31:51 pm
Quote
Look for a scart to component adapter -Do the same thing but not the HD modes so should be cheaper.
And then what, connect the RGB output from the video card to the equivalent SCART pins or sockets?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: GaijinPunch on January 10, 2009, 01:27:59 pm
Uggh... WinXP won't install on my new machine.  WTF?!  Damn this thing.  Should I even bother with Windows 7?  From the 10 seconds I've read on it Vista's crappy driver support should carry over, and I see there's at least experimental support. 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 10, 2009, 06:57:35 pm
Maybe stick to 2000
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheManuel on January 10, 2009, 06:59:57 pm
Some chipsets these days, are not supported by Windows XP installation drivers.
This is not too hard to get around if you have a floppy drive.
You just need to prepare a driver diskette from the motherboard manufacturer website and press F6 while Windows is installing to load thirs party drivers.
I'm not sure if this is your case but it was with my setup.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: GaijinPunch on January 10, 2009, 08:15:11 pm
It's when it gets to "Copying Files" it gives me a blue screen w/ an IRQ error.  I'll try another version, then maybe try to dig up 2000.  That'll be like going through a time machine... not like I really use Windows anymore anyway.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: GaijinPunch on January 11, 2009, 06:33:09 am
Well, I got XP installed and all that jazz.  I'm using a Radeon HD 4550... finding an old card is kind of tricky it seems. :(
Anyways, I run soft15khz and the "Install 15khz", "Install 25khz", "Install 31khz" options are ghosted.  Should I try an older version of Catalyst?  I'm using whatever came w/ the card, which is presumably quite new.

EDIT: Got a cheap 9250.  Now to wait for that sucker to arrive.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Siris on January 11, 2009, 03:43:19 pm
Does anyone have an act labs VGA gun working with soft15khz?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Lukeyson on January 11, 2009, 04:06:10 pm
Hello.

I don't know if this is well known, but a few websites like MP3Car.com and Fordmods.com have started taking notice of this utility because of it's ability to have a PC output RGB signals that match the factory screens in many major car manufacturers.

For example, I have an Australian built Ford Falcon with a colour screen in the centre console, called an "Interior Command Centre". It takes a 15kHz RGB signal, but many of us are using Composite to RGB converters to get this to work. A rare few people have been able to get older video cards to work, and others have been lucky enough to get Powerstrip to help them.

So firstly to clarify, and I think the answer is already yes. Can 'Soft-15kHz' be used on an Intel D945GCLF2 Mini-ITX Atom Board (Intel 945 chipset, or the GMA950) to generate a 15kHz, 640x480, 60Hz Interlaced resolution. Only a single resolution is ever needed, so we are not bothered by the GMA 5-res limit. The problem with Powerstrip is that it won't manipulate the Interlaced setting on any Intel IGP, so Soft-15kHz would appear to have an advantage in this regard.  (A known-working powerstip configuration can be found here:  http://www.fordmods.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=49711 - I note that it says 30 Hz Interlaced, so I seek further clarification on whether I have asked for the right resolution.)

Secondly, I noticed the experimental support for the Intel EGP. Can I take it that this does not include the 810/815? I've noticed a few people asking to support it.  I have a couple of Hp E-PC C10 systems lying about which have Intel 810e chipsets - these systems make a good option for a cheap Car PC. Would there be any value in me posting over one of the mainboards as my donation? These systems sell quite cheaply on eBay from time to time. You'd need a notebook power supply and a HDD to get it to work.   However I am put off by this technote at the Intel website:  http://www.intel.com/support/graphics/sb/CS-003869.htm - however, when I read the 810/815 developer's guide, I can clearly see an 'Interlaced' register in there.....so who knows whether it does it or not.


Luke Plaizier
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on January 12, 2009, 02:10:26 am
PSremote - okay....this only works with the resolution it's started in...so how is one supposed to use this for native resolutions?...that is, isn't the idea to be able to use it in-game?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 12, 2009, 06:14:50 am
I don't know if this is well known, but a few websites like MP3Car.com and Fordmods.com have started taking notice of this utility because of it's ability to have a PC output RGB signals that match the factory screens in many major car manufacturers.
Talking 'bout new horizons :D

So firstly to clarify, and I think the answer is already yes. Can 'Soft-15kHz' be used on an Intel D945GCLF2 Mini-ITX Atom Board (Intel 945 chipset, or the GMA950) to generate a 15kHz, 640x480, 60Hz Interlaced resolution. Only a single resolution is ever needed, so we are not bothered by the GMA 5-res limit. The problem with Powerstrip is that it won't manipulate the Interlaced setting on any Intel IGP, so Soft-15kHz would appear to have an advantage in this regard. I note that it says 30 Hz Interlaced, so I seek further clarification on whether I have asked for the right resolution.)
Basically yes, however I newer got too far into debuging the Intel port. There MAY be some bugs left.
I guess it would add it as 640x480 30Hz yes. For some reason Window shows up interlaces resolutions with half output (i.e. 25hz instead of real 50hz), but otherwise they should work fine.

Secondly, I noticed the experimental support for the Intel EGP. Can I take it that this does not include the 810/815? I've noticed a few people asking to support it.  I have a couple of Hp E-PC C10 systems lying about which have Intel 810e chipsets - these systems make a good option for a cheap Car PC. Would there be any value in me posting over one of the mainboards as my donation? These systems sell quite cheaply on eBay from time to time. You'd need a notebook power supply and a HDD to get it to work.   However I am put off by this technote at the Intel website:  http://www.intel.com/support/graphics/sb/CS-003869.htm - however, when I read the 810/815 developer's guide, I can clearly see an 'Interlaced' register in there.....so who knows whether it does it or not.
As far as I know, you need a pretty old IEGD suite, 4.1 or something like that for the 810 series IGP but it should work.
I don't know if it would support interlace though. I had some "funny" debug sessions with my GMA 900 sometimes working interlaced, sometimes not.


I guess its time for a second look into the Intel IGPs :)


PSremote - okay....this only works with the resolution it's started in...so how is one supposed to use this for native resolutions?...that is, isn't the idea to be able to use it in-game?
Not yet.
At the moment you should select the native resolution via Quickres and then use the PSremote to "tweak" it.

However I somewhat canned the project for me as I simply can't get it work right for me :(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: GaijinPunch on January 13, 2009, 07:08:10 am
I've got a head scratcher here.

This worked
-Radeon HD4550
-Latest Catalyst
-Used Quickres to set 640x480 (p)
-Hooked up to my Mitsubishi tri-synch monitor
My desktop was displayed in 640x480, after some "clicking" where Windows sent goofy modes during boot.  The issue is that Soft15khz doesn't like this card, so the Install 15khz stuff was ghosted out.

This isn't working
-Radeon 9250
-Catalyst 6.5
-Using either Catalyst or Quickres to set to 640x480
-I'm hooking it up to the same monitor, and I get nothing.  No clicking, no nothing.  Just black. 

Both setups used DVI out, w/ a DSUB15 converter.  I know this isn't Soft15khz related but it seems a lot of people have 9250's w/ Catalyst 6.5 here.

Any clues?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 13, 2009, 12:21:36 pm
Try using the "other" Port on the 9250. If it doesn't detect a DDC compliant monitor it falls back to the primary output.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on January 13, 2009, 03:32:26 pm
Older cards with DVI, the DVI was display '2', unless one switched this around in the Catalyst suite.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Lukeyson on January 13, 2009, 04:43:00 pm
Well, I just had a bit of a play with an ATom Intel 945 based Fujistu Microbook. It wasn't pleasant to be honest - but mainly because of the unit itself and the Intel drivers. I created a custom15khz.txt and removed every res I saw in the wiki page except for 640x480, 800x600 and 1024x768. Still, in quickres, there were a bunch of other resolutions I couldn't remove. I also tried generating a modeline for 30i, and was able to access it in the multires selection meu - but the system locked each time I tried it!
'Modeline "640x480@30i" 5.49 640 672 688 720 480 491 493 404 interlace'
I used an online Xfree86 Modeline generation website to make this....

(1) Of course, the system has a built-in screen so I had to use the VGA Port
(2) The system only displays access to the VGA port settings when something is connected. Of course, with a simple NTSC RGB screen there is nothing but connections to RGB -which makes the system think nothing is connected! I will research to see what else I have to do at the vga pins to have the system recognise something is connected.
(3) Quickres does not let me change the res of Display #2. I had to use Multires for that.

With the VGA as the 2nd screen, I received a few 'Out or range 15.7kHz, 50Hz' messages, which makes me think it must have been 800x600 or 1024x768 - even though I was sure I was setting 640x480. Certainly Multires was reporting 640x480. I couldn't confirm the operation of Interlacing at all - there is just no way to tell. In a later attempt with Powerstrip installed, Powerstrip was not reporting that interlaced was running, but since powerstip can't change interlaced settings on Intel IGP, I suspect it can't read them either.

I tried the vga port as the primary port, and when I applied my settings I remote-controlled the system via WinVNC. The screen, however, reported an 'Out of range 20kHz'. So on a bit of a whim I installed Powerstrip, and it too was reporting a 20kHz signal.

So in all this I couldn't confirm if the VGA port was outputting the right values or not, and non conclusive as to whether I should continue. But I've not given up....


Lukeyson
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: GaijinPunch on January 13, 2009, 05:38:31 pm
Try using the "other" Port on the 9250. If it doesn't detect a DDC compliant monitor it falls back to the primary output.

Yeah, that worked.  Sort of.  I see the windows boot screen, then nothing.  I might have left it in 1920x1200 though.  Gotta run to work.  Will deal w/ it when I get back. Damn job that feeds me and my family.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Lukeyson on January 13, 2009, 08:58:21 pm
From what I see, VGA recognises a load between 'RGB out' and 'RGB Return' pins on the VGA connector.

The Cable we use for VGA-to-Car Screen only uses the 'RGB Out' of the VGA, not the 'RGB Return'. So it looks like my choices are (a) connect the RGB return to common GND or (b) connect a 600Ohm resistor between the 'RGB out' and 'RGB Rtn' lines on the cable in question.

Some references:

(a) Specs of our VGA to Cap Screen cable:  http://www.fordmods.com/forums/BA-Colour-ICC-Video-Input-d38.html
(b) Some old discussions on how a VGA port recognises when a screen is attached: http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/general-hardware-discussion/1763-how-does-video-card-detect-vga-monitor-present.html


Luke
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 14, 2009, 12:31:10 am
'Modeline "640x480@30i" 5.49 640 672 688 720 480 491 493 404 interlace'
That modeline is fauly.
The "404 Line total" is lower than the "480 Line Active"; And the pixelclock seems to low too.

(2) The system only displays access to the VGA port settings when something is connected.
Its 75 Ohms resistors on the RGB OUTs and the RGB GNDs.


With the VGA as the 2nd screen, I received a few 'Out or range 15.7kHz, 50Hz' messages, which makes me think it must have been 800x600 or 1024x768 - even though I was sure I was setting 640x480. Certainly Multires was reporting 640x480. I couldn't confirm the operation of Interlacing at all - there is just no way to tell. In a later attempt with Powerstrip installed, Powerstrip was not reporting that interlaced was running, but since powerstip can't change interlaced settings on Intel IGP, I suspect it can't read them either.

I tried the vga port as the primary port, and when I applied my settings I remote-controlled the system via WinVNC. The screen, however, reported an 'Out of range 20kHz'. So on a bit of a whim I installed Powerstrip, and it too was reporting a 20kHz signal.

So in all this I couldn't confirm if the VGA port was outputting the right values or not, and non conclusive as to whether I should continue. But I've not given up....

I supporse you are using the GMA and not the IEGD driver?
Would be nice if you could provie a screenshot of powertstrip showing 20kHz. Maybe I got an error somewhere in the calculations.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Lukeyson on January 14, 2009, 07:27:02 am
My apologies.

That 404 was a actually 505 with a typo....

This work is still being done on an Intel 945/GMA950 system.

With the lockup issues at 30i (I don't think I understand this bit right yet) I put the following modeline in instead - which as probably already there by default:
Modeline "640x480@60i" 11.32 640 672 712 744 480 491 494 505 interlace
I have attached my Custom15Khz.txt file.

I bridged the RGBout with the RGBRtn lines and the system now recognises that a display is attached to the external VGA port.

I fixed an inadvertent swap of the G and B lines on my adapter cable for the Car Display.

And I have simply twisted HSync and VSync together to get a hacked-up CSync. I will consider assembling a proper Sync circuit from one of these sample circuits at a future date:  http://www.tkk.fi/Misc/Electronics/circuits/vga2rgbs.html

My display now appears to sync, it is not rolling, but it has a constant horizontal tear. Does anyone recognise what this is a symptom of? Could it be that the interlacing is not functioning? That's the original cause of my problem on powerstrip and is why I am here after all! Or could it be that I really do need to do more to combine the sync signals correctly? At one point I saw the right side of the image on the left side of the display, and a flick between 16 and 32 bit colour resulted in that torn - but not rolling - static display.

I have attached the image from my screen for reference.


Luke
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sosetsuken on January 14, 2009, 07:35:13 am
Hey luke, does it look sorta like this?

[youtube]-R1CUTwsclI[/youtube]

Sorry bout the crap quality of the video, was done on my crap phone.  Your image looks just like what I have on my screen at the moment. :/
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 14, 2009, 11:49:31 am
Modeline "640x480@60i" 11.32 640 672 712 744 480 491 494 505 interlace
I have attached my Custom15Khz.txt file.

I bridged the RGBout with the RGBRtn lines and the system now recognises that a display is attached to the external VGA port.

I fixed an inadvertent swap of the G and B lines on my adapter cable for the Car Display.

And I have simply twisted HSync and VSync together to get a hacked-up CSync. I will consider assembling a proper Sync circuit from one of these sample circuits at a future date:  http://www.tkk.fi/Misc/Electronics/circuits/vga2rgbs.html

Try the same modeline with at "-hsync -vsync" at the end.
Most likely your LCD doesn't like positiv sync.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Lukeyson on January 14, 2009, 04:05:48 pm
Video with +hsync +vsync 640x480 60i:  http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=rdfBbxnxtdQ

Video with -hsync -vsync same:  http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=P2OQsKL4QOQ

I also tried 30p but it produced a rolling-screen too so it doesn't look like the screen can sync to it.

I know that the screen works with an RGB converter - specifically this one:  http://www.carconverters.com.au/products/Signal_Converter/236.html. I notice that it has 0.7Vp-p on the RGB pins and 3Vp-p on the CSync. So I will check to see what these values are out of normal VGA.

But to me it almost looks like I'm there. There have been others who have managed to get a wire-tied hsync/vsync line to work, but it was out of a different vga card, so I'm open to that being the problem, and I will make a point of working on it ASAP. 

You know, it almost looks like it's all working, but it's just somehow not flagging the right end-of-line and caused that 'static tear'. I haven't come across display anomalies like this to know what may exactly be causing it though.

But my biggest suspicion is that interlace is not working, and I have no idea how to check.


Luke
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Lukeyson on January 14, 2009, 04:11:09 pm
These are the known-working values from Powerstrip.  I don't suppose any of these values are relevant to the modeline statement are they?

This attached screen is, of course, from a system that Powerstrip can manipulate the interlaced setting.


Luke


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Paul Olson on January 14, 2009, 05:08:03 pm
I read through most of this thread again, but I still have a couple of questions.

Has anyone had any luck getting this to work in Vista64?

I am looking into buying a newer video card that will be powerful enough to play the AAE vector emulator. Do any of you have any suggestions in the $50-$80 range that also will support all resolutions in soft-15KHz?

Thanks,
Paul
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Lukeyson on January 14, 2009, 07:50:12 pm
OK, Modeline and the Custom screens on Powerstrip ARE directly related.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XFree86_Modeline
http://www.epanorama.net/documents/vga2rgb/timings.html

So I tried to generate a Modeline that was the same as in that Powerstrip screen and came up with this:

Modeline "640x480@60i" 12.656 640 672 768 800 480 489 491 525 -interlace

No luck - the screen started scrolling so I lost sync.

I thien tried wiping out all of my custom 640x480 settings to use the default - and it's just the same as before. Vertical Sync is getting a lock, but horizontal sync is out either due to interlacing or my dodgy sync solution.

Is there any other way I can determine whether Interlacing is enabled for a certain resolution? It doesn't show up on any of my selections in MultiRes. I can't use quickres because it only works on the primary screen but from memory when I had the external vga as primary it dodn't show up either.. Interlacing also doesn't appear in the factory Intel driver settings. Any other clues?


Lukeyson
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 15, 2009, 12:30:13 am
Windows doesn't care if resolutions are interlaced or not, nor it will show.
All resolutions with less than 50Hz wil get "flagged" interlaced in the list, even if they are now.

Well... Are you using the GMA oder the IEGD drivers?
Do you have any other equipment to test if the card outputs the right frequency?

To check your wiring you could try 640x480 (i.e. all vertical values halved and "interlace" removed.

I'm pretty sure the GMA can output interlace as I've seen several people use it with 1920x1080i for HD.
However without proper hardware I have to wait right now.
Waiting for the weekend...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Lukeyson on January 15, 2009, 03:52:43 am
Ahh. I thought GMA were for current generation chips and IEGD referred to previous generations.

But it's all about 'User' drivers vs 'Engineering' drivers - or something thereabouts. Gotcha.

The answer is up until now - GMA. And now I know what you're talking about, and found the 92M download for the 9.0.2 Gold IEGD drivers, I'm going to bury my head and learn how this thing works.

I'll be back when I've clawed my way further out of this hole of noobism.


Lukeyson
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Lukeyson on January 15, 2009, 09:16:01 am
Bingo!!!

Thanks for making me look further into that IEGD driver! I was able to create a custom driver that listed a 640x480@60i mode, but had to specify 30Hz refresh with Interlaced turn on in the dtd configuration. I am feeling quite good about all this now because that was one hard slog! (It is 1.30am here - I couldn't stop!). The previous issue was almost certainly to do with Interlacing since I still have my twisted-wire hsync/vsync combination circuit. (And yes, I will be fixing that soon.)

If anyone would like me to share what I've learnt so far about the Intel 945G xpress chipset and custom resolutions I'd be more than happy to. I will be writing up my findings with specific focus on my CarPC application and posting them to the Fordmods.com website I listed earlier, and would be happy to drop a copy here if you like.


Lukeyson
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sosetsuken on January 15, 2009, 12:04:00 pm
Hey peeps,

I've recently made a SCART(RGB)->VGA adaptor and installed soft15khz (It listed the 3 options and USER) on both the adapters available that had radio boxes.

The problem i'm having is that I can only get certain resolutions to display correctly, like no 320x240 or 640x480, but i can get what looks like widescreen resolutions like 640x244 and other non 4:3 resolutions. (And using "switchres 1" in MAME seems like nothing displays correctly :( )

I'm using:

ATi Radeon Mobility 9700 64mb (Basically an Upped 9600 mobility)
ATi Catalyst 8.12 Driver
Mitsubushi 60cm TV
SCART(RGB)->VGA adaptor
Windows XP

Would it be the driver?
Does Soft15khz install always or only when it detects it can work?

Any help is much appreciated, thanks :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 15, 2009, 12:13:32 pm
I guess your problem is the catalyst, simply TOO new.

Try using http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat65-xp.html ; though I don't know if this includes mobile chipsets.

Back to topic; Well yeah basicaly it "greys out" the install buttons if your drivers is not supported.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sosetsuken on January 15, 2009, 12:57:36 pm
Oh ok, well i've downloaded and modded those 6.5's for use on my radeon mobility.  Just gotta wait for the shops to open now.

Its weird because it let me install soft15khz on 8.12's.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sosetsuken on January 15, 2009, 09:55:36 pm
Hey SailorSat those 6.5's work great I can get up to 512x512 but not over.

I can now get mortal kombat 1 & 2 working without modifying anything! (400 x 254, which is listed as 401x256 in your downloads page?)

How do i add cps2/3 and neogeo resolutions?

384x224 @ 59.63hz/ 320 x 224 @ 59.19hz

Thanks!


EDIT: Got 800x600 working with:

"
PowerStrip timing parameters:
800x600=800,60,80,132,600,32,3,16,16079,15

Generic timing details for 800x600:
HFP=60 HSW=80 HBP=132 kHz=15 VFP=32 VSW=3 VBP=16 Hz=23

VESA detailed timing:
PClk=16079.00 H.Active=800 H.Blank=272 H.Offset=44 HSW=80 V.Active=600 V.Blank=51 V.Offset=32 VSW=3

Linux modeline parameters:
"800x600" 16.079 800 860 940 1072 600 632 635 651 interlace -hsync -vsync
"

using powerstrip, does that explain what my problem might be?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 15, 2009, 10:19:37 pm
For CPS1/2/3 use 392x240, and for NeoGeo use 321x240.

The problem might be that some chipsets tend to "blend out" some resolutions.
Especially on Laptops, at least I had some trouble on my HP notebooks radeon 9600.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sosetsuken on January 15, 2009, 10:45:19 pm
Mortal Kombat II looks gorgeous, just like i remember the arcade screen!

I'll be trying the cps2 and Neogeo rez's out in a sec. 

By "Blended Out" does that mean doesn't accept some?  Does soft15khz suppport most of the mame resolutions on desktop graphics cards?

Thanks heaps SailorSat for making the program and for your help :) 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 15, 2009, 11:14:40 pm
By "Blended Out" does that mean doesn't accept some?  Does soft15khz suppport most of the mame resolutions on desktop graphics cards?
Yup. Theoretically it would support nearly every resolution, however it's not really usefull, as 99% of all games can be narrowed down to about 30 resolutions.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sosetsuken on January 15, 2009, 11:20:34 pm
Would you possibly have a list of what resolutions i need to set, i've made my cps1.ini/cps2.ini/cps3.ini/neodrvr.ini but i just tried to play pacman and it was a no go :/
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 15, 2009, 11:58:09 pm
How about letting MAME select the resolutions?
Just set "switchres" to 1 in MAME.ini
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sosetsuken on January 16, 2009, 02:07:04 am
Yeah see thats the problem SailorSat, when i do that the screen goes all garbled.  I have to set the resolutions to the nearest via quickres :/
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on January 17, 2009, 04:11:22 pm
For some reason, Mame tends to pick 800x600 when on auto. Or maybe there's an issue with it picking a sensible resolution for a vertical game run horizontally.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: smiwin on January 17, 2009, 06:07:14 pm
loaded soft15khz, i do see my voodoo 3 card listed, but all buttons are greyed out. Does this mean my card is not compatible?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 17, 2009, 08:36:49 pm
This only means your DRIVER is not compatible.
Use an SFFT driver (google is your friend on that one)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: smiwin on January 17, 2009, 10:45:18 pm
got soft-15khz working thanks to your sttf driver suggestion... WOW!... thank you.

Is there something i need to do to enable soft-15khz, it says installed, and i've restarted.

Next step to see if i can get mame working, never used the command line version though.

Thanks again, money on the way!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: smiwin on January 17, 2009, 10:58:01 pm
nevermind i can see it is at 15khz, but i get 2 images on the arcade monitor
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Eversynth on January 18, 2009, 07:16:35 am
I am using an ATI X1650XT with the custom resolutions with 7.12 pixel clock.
I connected the PC to my TV trough a VGA/SCART RGB cable. My TV is 50hz and 60hz capable.

Now, there is one thing that bugs me to no end:
Using the nintendo WII, the SCART RGB cable, 640x480i @ 60hz, with Ikaruga, the screen does NOT flicker.
Using windows, soft15khz, at 640x480 it is so bad my eyes hurt.

Since the WII can display a 640x480 image without flickering, there must be a way to use the same resolution with soft15khz.
Any idea?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Lukeyson on January 18, 2009, 06:17:05 pm
nevermind i can see it is at 15khz, but i get 2 images on the arcade monitor

Are they half images side-by-side. That was similar to my problem - where the screen was syncing but required interlacing, but was receiving a progressive image. the 'static tearing' images I uploaded on page 33 was actually of those two images side by side!

Just to finish off my earlier posts though, here's a video of my working solution in a vehicle. While in this case i couldn't quite get Soft15kHz to do what I wanted with the Intel chipsets, it very nearly did. I have already been suggesting this utility for others without Intel chipsets who have asked and need a 15khz solution for their CarPC.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgjA7MRLl_0


Lukeyson
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: smiwin on January 18, 2009, 07:35:36 pm
they are 1/2 side by side, with about a 2 inch strip down the middle seperating the two images
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Lukeyson on January 18, 2009, 10:08:47 pm
Well then my opinion is that almost certainly you need to have interlaced turned on for your monitor, but your video card is not doing interlaced for you.

You might want to try a manual modeline entry in the configuration file removing the existing resolution and adding it back in on the next line with the '-interlace' text added to it.


Lukeyson
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: smiwin on January 18, 2009, 10:56:54 pm
reached my wits end, bought an arcadevga card. thanks for the help, with more patience I'm confident you would have solved my problem.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on January 19, 2009, 05:45:41 pm
reached my wits end, bought an arcadevga card. thanks for the help, with more patience I'm confident you would have solved my problem.

You just needed to, like, read the monitor wiki. Maybe a few times.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on January 21, 2009, 03:51:25 pm
Yeah see thats the problem SailorSat, when i do that the screen goes all garbled.  I have to set the resolutions to the nearest via quickres :/

use the AVRES tool if your not using it already.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Eversynth on January 26, 2009, 07:58:36 am
I have a new problem. I tried the same thing on 2 different PCs without success, so I think it's a software problem.

I have 2 TVs, and I want to connect them both to the same graphics card.
The first, connected vga->scart rgb, always works fine.
The second, connected dvi->vga adaptor->scart rgb doesn't work. It looks out of sync, and when connected to a PC monitor it doesn't says it's sending a 15Khz signal (it says so when I connect the first vga out to the monitor), and doesn't sync even on the pc monitor.

Yes, I installed soft15khz in both first and secondary output.
I tried with an Ati 9600 and an Ati x1650xt.

What else can I do?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: captainpotato on January 26, 2009, 09:16:30 am
I've just installed Soft 15KHz and am beginning to appreciate just how great it is (I'm not missing AdvanceMAME any longer, put it that way). I'm running an NEC Multisync 3D monitor (with a GeForce MX420), which can do real 15KHz screenmodes, so Soft 15KHz works brilliantly.

I do have one issue that I haven't been able to solve (or find any information about) - is there any way to make the 15KHz screenmodes use the same screen real estate (for want of a better term) as the native screenmodes? The issue is that when I change between 31KHz and 15KHz screenmodes, I have to manually adjust the monitor's left-right position setting each time (the monitor is so old that it doesn't have an OSD to save them) so that the image is fully visible. Once the screen is behind glass, this won't be an option (even if I wished to do it).

I've used the NVidia settings to shift the screen as much as possible to the left to adjust it, but it doesn't go far enough. If I stick to 15KHz screenmodes for everything, there's no issue, but Mala flickers a bit much for my liking a 640x480 (or higher) at 15KHz (just like my Amiga used to before I got the monitor many years ago...).

Any ideas?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Eversynth on January 26, 2009, 12:25:32 pm

Any ideas?
If you only use MAME, and if you only have issues with the position, you can center the screen using the MAME slider controls for each game. It's a bit long to do, but better than nothing.
But you can't resize the screen with mame, otherwise it will look very bad.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: captainpotato on January 27, 2009, 03:30:25 am
If you only use MAME, and if you only have issues with the position, you can center the screen using the MAME slider controls for each game. It's a bit long to do, but better than nothing.
But you can't resize the screen with mame, otherwise it will look very bad.

Edit: that's solved some other issues (thanks), but it doesn't help with the issue that I'm trying to solve. I think the issue that I'm having is monitor-related, as the MAME setting only shifts within the monitor's physical restrictions. What I need to do is to shift the monitor's positioning of certain screenmodes. I know that it can be done as AdvanceMAME's monitor configuration used to be able to do it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on January 28, 2009, 12:52:30 am
What I need to do is to shift the monitor's positioning of certain screenmodes. I know that it can be done as AdvanceMAME's monitor configuration used to be able to do it.

Advancemame can resize the image, but not without lines missing or added, which results in various kinds of artifacting. That's the nature of things. Perhaps when you used Advancemame you didn't know what to look for to know it wasn't perfectly displayed.


I have a new problem. I tried the same thing on 2 different PCs without success, so I think it's a software problem.

I have 2 TVs, and I want to connect them both to the same graphics card.
The first, connected vga->scart rgb, always works fine.
The second, connected dvi->vga adaptor->scart rgb doesn't work. It looks out of sync, and when connected to a PC monitor it doesn't says it's sending a 15Khz signal (it says so when I connect the first vga out to the monitor), and doesn't sync even on the pc monitor.

Yes, I installed soft15khz in both first and secondary output.
I tried with an Ati 9600 and an Ati x1650xt.

What else can I do?

I think the DVI port won't do native resolutions because they are an analog function. And of course it won't then sync to a PC monitor, as what it IS putting out is not only garbage, but out of range garbage.


I recommend reading the monitor wiki to both of you.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: captainpotato on January 28, 2009, 01:12:00 am
What I need to do is to shift the monitor's positioning of certain screenmodes. I know that it can be done as AdvanceMAME's monitor configuration used to be able to do it.

Advancemame can resize the image, but not without lines missing or added, which results in various kinds of artifacting. That's the nature of things. Perhaps when you used Advancemame you didn't know what to look for to know it wasn't perfectly displayed.

No, that's not it either - clearly I'm doing a crap job of explaining myself ;) It's not artefacts or resizing, but the positioning of the viewable area of the screen. AdvanceMAME's tool (advv, from memory) to set the screen up allowed the viewable area to be shifted in a manner similar to what MAME does (as you suggested), but it allowed me to do all screenmodes to a larger degree that meant that I could have (for instance) a 224x240 @ 15KHz and an 800x600 @ 31KHz in exactly the same spot on the monitor.

The NVidia driver tools allow shifting of the 31KHz screenmode's position to a certain degree, but not far enough to avoid adjusting the horizontal positioning on the monitor without mucking up the 15KHz screenmodes (remember that my monitor can do all of the 15KHz modes natively and completely accurately).

The reason why I've been trying to get the various screenmodes all lined up is so that I could have a non-interlaced screenmode for MaLa. I've settled for a 640x480 @ 15KHz with flicker that isn't too bad because of the background image, which means that everything is positioned exactly correctly. Once I add the tinted glass over the screen, I'm imagining that the flicker will be even less of an issue.

To be honest, I think part of the issue is that the monitor is so old that it doesn't save settings (no OSD) - if it could, I wouldn't have an issue. When I was using AdvanceMAME, I was running DOS with a TNT2 M64 card, so all of these factors combined may well mean that this is why the issue never came up then.

As it is, the games look pretty much as good as they can probably get with MAME (correct refresh rates, fullscreen, scanlines from the monitor (not emulated) and no tearing), so having a slightly flickering front end is not worth losing too much sleep over :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on January 28, 2009, 10:34:18 am
Advancemame can resize the image, but not without lines missing or added, which results in various kinds of artifacting. That's the nature of things. Perhaps when you used Advancemame you didn't know what to look for to know it wasn't perfectly displayed.
I don't agree. With ADVV, I've setted thousand of resolutions with different graphic cards with no artifacts.
I've always centered, stretched (horizontally) the resolutions with no issues.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on January 29, 2009, 09:09:59 pm
Advancemame can resize the image, but not without lines missing or added, which results in various kinds of artifacting. That's the nature of things. Perhaps when you used Advancemame you didn't know what to look for to know it wasn't perfectly displayed.
I don't agree. With ADVV, I've setted thousand of resolutions with different graphic cards with no artifacts.
I've always centered, stretched (horizontally) the resolutions with no issues.

He's talking about using the in-game functions, the same kind of thing that SS's recent, and stalled, project, Immolator (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=66402.msg913460#msg913460), attempted. I haven't played with them in a while, but I recall the game crashing when I stretched - or maybe that was only stretching vertically. I dunno. AdvanceMame automatically stretches some games, depending on the game and your monitor's limitations and orientation, if in generate mode. And I see the artifacting in many cases. I guess some people would rather be able to play the game, even so. Not me. Whatever you're doing I'm not sure, though.

Anyways, cp, I know. I was just talking about stretching.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: dmauro on February 01, 2009, 12:23:20 pm
I've currently got soft 15KHz installed on my 7800GT with the 162.65 drivers. Most of the resolutions work, but the following resolutions cause the image to tile so there is 4 of it on screen on my low res monitor and 2 of them side by side on my tri-sync monitor:
256x256
288x240
296x240
321x256
252x256
352x264
512x448

And the following two appear completely broken with a bad sync or something:
240x240
448x384

Can I modify any of these to make them work somehow, or should I simply remove them?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Eversynth on February 02, 2009, 01:06:54 pm
I have 2 TVs, and I want to connect them both to the same graphics card.
The first, connected vga->scart rgb, always works fine.
The second, connected dvi->vga adaptor->scart rgb doesn't work. It looks out of sync, and when connected to a PC monitor it doesn't says it's sending a 15Khz signal (it says so when I connect the first vga out to the monitor), and doesn't sync even on the pc monitor.
A small update:
I haven't solved the issue of having the secondary output working. I think it's a DDC/EDID problem.

So I installed a second videocard, and all works as (I) intended.

I'm now waiting for 2 radeon 9250 so I don't have to deal with the increased x1650 pixelclock.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on February 02, 2009, 02:46:06 pm

I'm now waiting for 2 radeon 9250 so I don't have to deal with the increased x1650 pixelclock.
[/quote]

I was there at one point and decided to go with the X1950 pro so I could also play up to date pc games that the lower end cards just can't do but it required a few custom modes for a work around and all is well.

but then the lower end cards can to the lower res's without any tweaking and runs soft15K stock but I could not get 75% of the newer games I had bought to run on them becuase the power was not there to run them right.

I decided on the X1950 pro becuase I would rather have it were I could play anything I throw at it all around except games that run 1024X768+ and only suffer having to run a few custom modes for the lower res's but with the custom modes they work great also and good eough for me.

 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on February 02, 2009, 03:33:51 pm

I'm now waiting for 2 radeon 9250 so I don't have to deal with the increased x1650 pixelclock.

I was there at one point and decided to go with the X1950 pro so I could also play up to date pc games that the lower end cards just can't do but it required a few custom modes for a work around and all is well.

but then the lower end cards can to the lower res's without any tweaking and runs soft15K stock but I could not get 75% of the newer games I had bought to run on them becuase the power was not there to run them right.

I decided on the X1950 pro becuase I would rather have it were I could play anything I throw at it all around except games that run 1024X768+ and only suffer having to run a few custom modes for the lower res's but with the custom modes they work great also and good eough for me.

 
[/quote]

North do you mind sharing your txt files?
I have the same vid card. I know not the same monitor but i still would like to try. If you don't mind of course.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: dmauro on February 03, 2009, 12:34:55 am
Quote
For CPS games use 392x240 ...

MAME ignores the few extra pixels if you use "video ddraw".
I am using ddraw, but mame is stretching games across to the full resolution so I get line doubling. Games that are 320x240 have one single line right in the center that is line doubled (to make it 321 pixels across), and then Progear has several lines that are doubled. Any idea how to fix this so that I just get blank black space instead of line doubling?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on February 03, 2009, 12:57:19 am
Twin-X

let me post my custom.txt to see if it will work just put it in your soft15K folder straight up and then unintall and reinstall soft15K not off the C: drive but the gui/menu part of soft15K.

copy and save what I post as custom.txt only and place it in your soft15K folder

;Remove some "too low" resolutions
remove 240x240
remove 256x240
remove 256x256
remove 256x264
remove 321x256

;ReAdd some "low" resolutions with higher pclock and (way) larger sync width
modeline '288x240@59.885' 7.12 288 332 392 448 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240@59.941' 7.12 296 338 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '304x240@59.305' 7.12 304 344 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '321x240@59.014' 7.12 321 350 392 448 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '336x240@59.749' 7.12 336 356 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync

Card is Sapphire X1950 Pro AGP 512MB DDR3 on a nanao Ms8-26SU with ultimarc video amp.

also use the http://www.ultimarc.com/avres.zip tool so it sets up all the res's correctly for you automaticly.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: dmauro on February 03, 2009, 01:40:09 pm
I've currently got soft 15KHz installed on my 7800GT with the 162.65 drivers. Most of the resolutions work, but the following resolutions cause the image to tile so there is 4 of it on screen on my low res monitor and 2 of them side by side on my tri-sync monitor:
256x256
288x240
296x240
321x256
252x256
352x264
512x448

And the following two appear completely broken with a bad sync or something:
240x240
448x384

Can I modify any of these to make them work somehow, or should I simply remove them?

I found this much earlier in this thread:

Quote from: bent98
Hey sailor
Take a look at the last video card in that thread. the geforce 7300. He has the doubling of same refresh and uses a custom file to remove and re add.
 Seems like my 7850GT is doubling certain resolutions. Take a look at my post about certain resolutions double. Could that be ena fix for my issue. The thing is I dont have card anymore. If this is the fix you may want to add it to the FAQ

http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=7925&page=3

remove 288x240
remove 296x240
remove 256x256
remove 240x240
remove 321x256
remove 352x256
remove 352x264
modeline '288x240@59,305' 6,2 288 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240@59,305' 6,2 296 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x256@59,697' 7,47 352 352 405 450 256 257 260 271 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x264@59,697' 7,47 352 352 405 458 264 265 268 279 -hsync -vsync
modeline '321x256@59,014' 6,45 321 336 368 414 256 258 261 280 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x256@60,436' 5,3 256 272 296 352 256 260 263 277 -hsync -vsync
modeline '240x240@60,436' 5,3 240 240 280 336 240 244 247 261 -hsync -vsync

Update I just got a hold of a Nividia 7950GT and guess what. After adding that information from [above] and putting it into a custom15khz.txt It works like a charm. No more line doubling.

Sailor you need to add this to your FAQ for nivida 7 series cards.

I'm going to give this a go, but since I'm using a 7800GT I'm confident this will be the fix I was looking for. (this doesn't have fixes for the 25KHz resolutions that are line doubling, however)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on February 03, 2009, 03:20:11 pm
Thanks a million North!!

I will give it a go. Currently i am installing my machine with x64.
I have exactly the same card my monitor is a multisync nec pg4

I choose this card like you newer games: bionic command rearmed is a blast. can't wait for the new street fighter!

Regards,
Jeffry
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Eversynth on February 03, 2009, 06:10:47 pm
I was there at one point and decided to go with the X1950 pro so I could also play up to date pc games that the lower end cards just can't do but it required a few custom modes for a work around and all is well.

but then the lower end cards can to the lower res's without any tweaking and runs soft15K stock but I could not get 75% of the newer games I had bought to run on them becuase the power was not there to run them right.

I decided on the X1950 pro becuase I would rather have it were I could play anything I throw at it all around except games that run 1024X768+ and only suffer having to run a few custom modes for the lower res's but with the custom modes they work great also and good eough for me.
You're right re  running pc games who requires more power.
My situation is a little different though:
for serious pc gaming I have a specific pc gaming setup in the same room as my arcade pc, so there's little point for me to run games that can do better than 640x480 on my "arcade pc".
I think the other games (older or indie) with a lower resolution can be handled by the 9250.

And let's not forget the irritating flickering of interlaced resolutions.
If the needs arise I can always install the 1650xt or the 1950pro in the PCIE slot and try to find a way to make it work.


So... I have installed and tested the 2 radeon 9250 setup, and all works as intended. At 288x240 (for 288x224 pacman games) they even removed a distorted image I was having when using the same resolution with the 9600pro.
I don't know if it was soft15khz related or it's a video card fault, but fortunately it's gone.
The biggest advantage is that now the lower resolution games don't have a wrong aspect ratio.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: dmauro on February 04, 2009, 09:57:56 am
Quote
For CPS games use 392x240 ...

MAME ignores the few extra pixels if you use "video ddraw".
I am using ddraw, but mame is stretching games across to the full resolution so I get line doubling. Games that are 320x240 have one single line right in the center that is line doubled (to make it 321 pixels across), and then Progear has several lines that are doubled. Any idea how to fix this so that I just get blank black space instead of line doubling?
I found the solution. There is a deprecated mame ini option unevenstretch which you can set to 0 for integer only scaling. You must use ddraw for this to work, and when verifying roms you will get a warning that the option is unkown, but it absolutely works.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on February 04, 2009, 09:44:11 pm
I found the solution. There is a deprecated mame ini option unevenstretch which you can set to 0 for integer only scaling. You must use ddraw for this to work, and when verifying roms you will get a warning that the option is unkown, but it absolutely works.

That's an interesting one.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 06, 2009, 06:13:13 am
Woohoo... Some days not lookin at the forum and this thread grew another page xD

A little off-topic -> (http://images.arianchen.de/hooray.jpg) <- The EDID-Dongle is pretty much completed and will be available soon.
Guess I'll put a 9600 GT or something like that in the cab soon (though my Radeons do a good job at every resolution a 15kHz Monitor would do).



I think the DVI port won't do native resolutions because they are an analog function. And of course it won't then sync to a PC monitor, as what it IS putting out is not only garbage, but out of range garbage.

Actually it does, IF you have a Multisync LCD with DVI it will work with lowres modes.
I've used a Radeon 9600 dualheaded for OutRunners. However I don't remember doing anything fancy with the drivers. Should work out of the box.



p.s. IE 8 pretty much sucks ~-~ that damn scrollbar keeps snippin to the top...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: isucamper on February 06, 2009, 08:27:50 am
I found the solution. There is a deprecated mame ini option unevenstretch which you can set to 0 for integer only scaling. You must use ddraw for this to work, and when verifying roms you will get a warning that the option is unkown, but it absolutely works.

For the record, I believe SailorSat's very own CabMame hacks the unevenstretch option back into recent versions of MAME.

PS:  That is the biggest dongle I have ever seen.  :angel:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: dmauro on February 06, 2009, 10:10:20 am
I found the solution. There is a deprecated mame ini option unevenstretch which you can set to 0 for integer only scaling. You must use ddraw for this to work, and when verifying roms you will get a warning that the option is unkown, but it absolutely works.

For the record, I believe SailorSat's very own CabMame hacks the unevenstretch option back into recent versions of MAME.

PS:  That is the biggest dongle I have ever seen.  :angel:
I think his hack is for the cleanstretch option, which definitely does not work in mame anymore without hacking it in. As far as I know though, cleanstretch and nounevenstretch are the same thing. :?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on February 06, 2009, 10:24:24 am
Woohoo... Some days not lookin at the forum and this thread grew another page xD

A little off-topic -> (http://images.arianchen.de/hooray.jpg) <- The EDID-Dongle is pretty much completed and will be available soon.
Guess I'll put a 9600 GT or something like that in the cab soon (though my Radeons do a good job at every resolution a 15kHz Monitor would do).


Nice. When can we expect those and do i have to reserve one?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on February 06, 2009, 06:36:45 pm
And what are they for, again?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 06, 2009, 07:28:37 pm
Unlocking Lowres Modes on GeForce 8, 9, GTX series.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on February 07, 2009, 08:12:13 am

sailor

So are you saying that with this dongle I can use a Nvidia GTX290 and get all the screens resolutions the ATI's get? Also Will the work with Vista 64 drivers?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 07, 2009, 08:42:30 am
GTX yes.
Vista 64 no.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: dmauro on February 07, 2009, 01:58:46 pm
I used those geforce 7 series resolution fixes, and they worked great on the 15KHz resolutions. But would someone be able to help me come up with new modelines for these following resolutions that are rolling:
512x288
800x600
1024x768

They don't double up or anything, just something about the refresh rates is making them roll. Thanks!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on February 07, 2009, 04:16:20 pm
I would definatly be interested in the adaptor if they become available for sale.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: isucamper on February 09, 2009, 12:16:26 am
Here's a question for all the resolution guru's.  I've got a WG D9800.  I'm running windows XP and I've got a PC with an onboard Nvidia 6150.

I got Soft-15Khz going on it last week, and most of the games look spectacular (SailorSat, you really desearve a medal or something for hooking us all up with this).  However, on a few of the games, the geometry on my monitor is pretty bad, and no amount of tweaking of the digital settings can fix it.

In particular, Mortal Kombat (running at 401x256 I believe) and Paperboy (running at one of the 25 Khz rezes) both have an hourglass like shape to the picture.  I can't get rid of the it no matter how much I tweak the monitor settings.  I don't get why these resolutions look so weird, while all of the more conventional resolutions look just fine. 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: dmauro on February 09, 2009, 01:09:30 pm
About how much do you think those dongles will cost? I have a spare 8800GTS so I would be interested in one.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on February 12, 2009, 03:06:51 am
Unlocking Lowres Modes on GeForce 8, 9, GTX series.

Will this work also with newer ATi's?
So we can get low res + no limit on the number of res (limit that nvidia has, right?).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Fancy Feast on February 12, 2009, 11:46:17 pm
Hi there,
I finally decided to register here because I'm pulling my hair out looking for a good video solution for my cabinet.

First off, I'm wondering if there are any video cards that i could find at an actual store that are compatible with soft 15khz (obviously geforce 8 &9 are out of the question, but what about ATI).  The reason I ask is because I just ordered a Radeon X1950, and when I opened it the damn thing had two DVI ports despite everything from the ad right down to the invoice listing (and showing) a VGA port. :banghead:

So yeah, I'm stuck looking for a pci-e card with native vga that is faster than the arcadeVGA.

Failing that, I'd love some more info on the adapter everyone's been talking about for the last page or so.

PS: kinda off topic, but is there an XP64-bit driver for the arcadeVGA?  Cuz if I have to fall back on that piece of junk I really don't wanna go back to vista :cry:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 13, 2009, 02:20:13 am
Will this work also with newer ATi's?
Not yet. Still haven't found out how to get lowres from those ATIs.



First off, I'm wondering if there are any video cards that i could find at an actual store that are compatible with soft 15khz (obviously geforce 8 &9 are out of the question, but what about ATI).  The reason I ask is because I just ordered a Radeon X1950, and when I opened it the damn thing had two DVI ports despite everything from the ad right down to the invoice listing (and showing) a VGA port. :banghead:
Actually just use a DVI-VGA Adapter. They are pure mechanical and don't change any signal.



Failing that, I'd love some more info on the adapter everyone's been talking about for the last page or so.
Well, I've built a dongle so you can use GeForce 8, 9, GTX and newer stuff for lowres.
However there are only 10 right now, which I wired by hand.



PS: kinda off topic, but is there an XP64-bit driver for the arcadeVGA?  Cuz if I have to fall back on that piece of junk I really don't wanna go back to vista :cry:
As far as I know, there are no XP64 drivers for it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Fancy Feast on February 13, 2009, 02:51:08 am
Thanks for clearing some of that up, Sailor.

About the DVI-VGA adapter, I tried using that with another X1950 but when I feed it to my Betson tri-sync monitor, 640x480 is the only resolution that displays right.

800x600 comes in at 50hz, and on lower resolutions the monitor freaks out and gives absurdly high refresh rates.  After doing some reading in here I got the impression that an adapter wouldn't cut it and that something about the basic nature of DVI prevented it from outputting low resolutions.

That's what made me go hunting for VGA version of the card, but it's certainly possible that I just made a dumb assumption.
If I've overlooked some other minor yet crucial detail in setting this up, I'd be grateful to know what it is.

I'm not sure why this didn't occur to me sooner, but is soft 15khz even compatible with the XP 64bit driver model, cuz I just noticed the FAQ does'nt mention it specifically.  If not, that certainly explains things. :o
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 13, 2009, 03:14:17 am
It does work with XP64, but you may need to tweak some modelines for your x1950 card.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on February 13, 2009, 12:22:43 pm
I run a sapphire X1950 PRO 512MB DDR3 AGP through a DVI to VGA adapter and everything is great and it is also the strongest vga card that was made.

Runnng on Xp Pro Sp3

no vista or 64bit OS although the processor is a AMD 64bit but not the OS. 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Tinydane on February 13, 2009, 06:12:46 pm
35 pages of post reading and I still can't seem to grasp what I'm supposed to be doing...man i feel dense.

Anyways, I have Radeon HD4350 card.  Right now i have the vga plugged into a regular flat screen monitor (so i can read and research my issues).  My arcade setup i'm trying for it to connect the dvi to the component inputs on my 27" Ilo tv.

When I hook up the dvi to the tv all i get is "no signal detected".  I loaded powerstrip the other day and messed around with that only to get where I tried the 640x480i arcade mode and that didnt change anything.  But when I manually move the counter on the refersh down to around 30khz i get scrolling purple lines.  thats about all i can get.

So i tried loading your software but cant quite figure out what i'm supposed to be doing.  I downloaded the quickres and have that running and i click on your soft15 executable.  That opens up the window where i see two adapter entries.  It doesnt matter which I click on though none of the install buttons go active to let me actually install anything.

I feel like i'm missing even the basic first steps here before i even get into messing with resolution changes and dont know what to do next.

How do i get the install buttons to activate?

If this does actually work and i get a signal to my tv from the video card thats legible, do i then setup the computer to auto run the soft15 and quickres software at bootup going forward to use mame?

Thanks for the patience and assistance.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 13, 2009, 06:21:37 pm
Anyways, I have Radeon HD4350 card.  Right now i have the vga plugged into a regular flat screen monitor (so i can read and research my issues).  My arcade setup i'm trying for it to connect the dvi to the component inputs on my 27" Ilo tv.
Err... DVI to Component Oo
Never seen a cable like that before.
I can't tell if it actually would do anything.

Whatver...



So i tried loading your software but cant quite figure out what i'm supposed to be doing.  I downloaded the quickres and have that running and i click on your soft15 executable.  That opens up the window where i see two adapter entries.  It doesnt matter which I click on though none of the install buttons go active to let me actually install anything.
Hm... What driver and what OS are you using?



If this does actually work and i get a signal to my tv from the video card thats legible, do i then setup the computer to auto run the soft15 and quickres software at bootup going forward to use mame?
All settings will be stored in the registry so you don't have to rerun Soft-15kHz.
However you may add QuickRes if you plan to switch through resolutions.

Please note QuickRes online works with the "primary" Display adapter in Windows, which I think will be your FlatScreen Monitor.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on February 13, 2009, 07:07:55 pm

So i tried loading your software but cant quite figure out what i'm supposed to be doing.  I downloaded the quickres and have that running and i click on your soft15 executable.  That opens up the window where i see two adapter entries.  It doesnt matter which I click on though none of the install buttons go active to let me actually install anything.



try it on the C: drive instead of destop if you have not done so already.


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Tinydane on February 14, 2009, 10:30:40 am
Anyways, I have Radeon HD4350 card.  Right now i have the vga plugged into a regular flat screen monitor (so i can read and research my issues).  My arcade setup i'm trying for it to connect the dvi to the component inputs on my 27" Ilo tv.
Err... DVI to Component Oo
Never seen a cable like that before.
I can't tell if it actually would do anything.

Whatver...



So i tried loading your software but cant quite figure out what i'm supposed to be doing.  I downloaded the quickres and have that running and i click on your soft15 executable.  That opens up the window where i see two adapter entries.  It doesnt matter which I click on though none of the install buttons go active to let me actually install anything.
Hm... What driver and what OS are you using?



If this does actually work and i get a signal to my tv from the video card thats legible, do i then setup the computer to auto run the soft15 and quickres software at bootup going forward to use mame?
All settings will be stored in the registry so you don't have to rerun Soft-15kHz.
However you may add QuickRes if you plan to switch through resolutions.

Please note QuickRes online works with the "primary" Display adapter in Windows, which I think will be your FlatScreen Monitor.

As far as the DVI to component..what do most folks use to connect their dvi out from the graphics card to their monitor/tv?  I thought DVI to component was viable no?  If not what other means are there to connect to an SDTV?  My ILO tv has composite, component and svideo inputs on it.

As far as the drivers I"m using the 9.1 catalyst set from ATI for my HD4350 card.  I'm running windows XP as the OS on the pc.

If i can't get a signal to the tv out of the dvi how can i enable it as the primary display to use quickres?

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on February 14, 2009, 11:29:25 am
your card should have a S-video port between the two DVI ports and it also should have came with a converter that breaks out into a RGB cable.

 I use DVI to VGA adapter also included with the card and have it running to a arcade monitor.

I never tried anything on a regular tv becuase I heard the picture is not even close to the arcade monitor display quality so I am no help there with TV anything.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Tinydane on February 15, 2009, 08:35:28 am
The svideo out works fine except that the image quality on a lot of the games is fuzzy/shifted looking.  Thats what prompted me to try to use the DVI output on the video card instead of the svideo and run dvi to component into the tv.

This is where my problem is.  It doesnt recognize any signal coming out dvi to component so I think I need to mess around with the different resolution/refresh rate and was hoping to use soft15 for that but can't get it to work.  None of the install buttons on soft15 are enabled when I run the program they're all greyed out.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on February 15, 2009, 10:16:25 am
do you have the soft15K folder on your C: drive?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 15, 2009, 10:42:18 am
Most likely Catalyst 9 is no more compatible.
Guess I'll need to take a look into it once my new test rig is ready.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Tinydane on February 16, 2009, 01:47:24 pm
Yes..I have the folder on my computer.  I am able to run the program and it starts and shows me my driver but when I select it the buttons on the bottom are all disabled so I cant actually install any 15khz or 30khz etc resolutions.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Twin-X on February 16, 2009, 02:08:42 pm
Most likely Catalyst 9 is no more compatible.
Guess I'll need to take a look into it once my new test rig is ready.

Nope it works for me. Running xp 64 tough.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on February 16, 2009, 10:40:29 pm
I believe and pretty sure I am running the most current ati drivers on the X1950 pro also.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: AbyssUK on February 19, 2009, 04:39:44 pm
Hi Guys,

I have a jpac on order and I hope to use soft15khz to use my cabinet as a second display on my ATI 4850HD using winxp 64. HAs anybody had experiance using the 4xxx HD ATI cards ?

Cheers

AbyssUK
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on February 21, 2009, 05:50:45 pm
Look through the thread.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: BASS! on February 24, 2009, 04:04:38 am
Man, am I the only one that thinks that this thread should just be merged into a wiki? 35 pages sure is a doosy
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: BASS! on February 24, 2009, 04:34:23 am
K got my new system! I'm running xp 64 bit with a radeon x850. Right now I am at the point of trying to pick a compatible driver and having issues. Do you happen to know which set is workable, or if 64bit with this card is just no bueno? This is the list of driver versions I can get for xp64

Catalyst 9.1
   8.573
   January 29, 2009
Catalyst 8.12
        8.561
   December 10, 2008
Catalyst 8.11
   8.552
   November 12, 2008
Catalyst 8.10
   8.541
   October 15, 2008
Catalyst 8.9
   8.53
   September 17, 2008
Catalyst 8.8
   8.522
   August 20, 2008
Catalyst 8.7
   8.512
   July 21, 2008
Catalyst 8.6
   8.501
   June 18, 2008
Catalyst 8.5
   8.493
   May 21, 2008
Catalyst 8.4
   8.476
   April 16, 2008
Catalyst 8.3
   8.471
   March 5, 2008
Catalyst 8.2
   8.453
   February 13, 2008
Catalyst 8.1
   8.451
   January 16, 2008
Catalyst 7.12
   8.442
   December 20, 2007
Catalyst 7.11
   8.432
   November 21, 2007
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 24, 2009, 04:36:45 am
The following links is for XP(32) but the "supported cards" should match the with the XP64 drivers too.


Catalyst 8.11   9500-HD4870   Dec. 10, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat812-xp.html
Catalyst 8.11   9500-HD4800   Nov. 12, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat811-xp.html
Catalyst 8.10   9500-HD4800   Oct. 15, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat810-xp.html
Catalyst 8.9   9500-HD4800   Sept. 17, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat89-xp.html
Catalyst 8.8   9500-HD4800   Aug. 20, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat88-xp.html
Catalyst 8.7   9500-HD4800   July 21, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat87-xp.html
Catalyst 8.6   9500-HD3800   June 16, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat86-xp.html
Catalyst 8.5   9500-HD3800   May 21, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat85-xp.html
Catalyst 8.4   9500-HD3800   April 16, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat84-xp.html
Catalyst 8.3   9500-HD3800   March 5, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat83-xp.html
Catalyst 8.2   9500-HD3800   Feb. 13, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat82-xp.html
Catalyst 8.1   9500-HD3800   Jan. 16, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat81-xp.html

Catalyst 7.12   9500-HD3800   Dec. 20, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat712-xp.html
Catalyst 7.11   9500-HD3800   Nov. 21, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat711-xp.html
Catalyst 7.10   9500-HD2900   Oct. 11, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat710-xp.html
Catalyst 7.9   9500-HD2900   Sept. 10, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat79-xp.html
Catalyst 7.8   9500-HD2900   Aug. 13, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat78-xp.html
Catalyst 7.7   9500-HD2900   July 19, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat77-xp.html
Catalyst 7.6   9500-HD2900   June 25, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat76-xp.html
Catalyst 7.5   9500-HD2900   May 31, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat75-xp.html
Catalyst 7.4   9500-x1950   April 18, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat74-xp.html
Catalyst 7.3   9500-x1950   Mar. 28, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat73-xp.html
Catalyst 7.2   9500-x1950   Feb. 21, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat72-xp.html
Catalyst 7.1   9500-x1950   January 10, 2007   http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat71-xp.html

Catalyst 6.12   9500-x1950   Dec. 13, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat612-xp.html
Catalyst 6.11   9500-x1950   November 15,2006   http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat611-xp.html
Catalyst 6.10   9500-x1900   Oct. 31, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat610-xp.html
Catalyst 6.9   9500-x1900   Sept. 20, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat69-xp.html
Catalyst 6.8   9500-x1900   Aug. 18, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat68-xp.html
Catalyst 6.7   9500-x1900   July 28, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat67-xp.html
Catalyst 6.6   9500-x1900   June 26, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat66-xp.html
Catalyst 6.5   7000-x1900   May 24,2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat65-xp.html
Catalyst 6.4   7000-x1900   April 12, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat64-xp.html
Catalyst 6.3   7000-x1900   March 8, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat63-xp.html
Catalyst 6.2   7000-x1900   February 9, 2006   http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat62-xp.html
Catalyst 6.1   7000-x1800   January 18, 2006   http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat61-xp.html
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: BASS! on February 24, 2009, 04:58:02 am
The following links is for XP(32) but the "supported cards" should match the with the XP64 drivers too.


Catalyst 8.11   9500-HD4870   Dec. 10, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat812-xp.html
Catalyst 8.11   9500-HD4800   Nov. 12, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat811-xp.html
Catalyst 8.10   9500-HD4800   Oct. 15, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat810-xp.html
Catalyst 8.9   9500-HD4800   Sept. 17, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat89-xp.html
Catalyst 8.8   9500-HD4800   Aug. 20, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat88-xp.html
Catalyst 8.7   9500-HD4800   July 21, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat87-xp.html
Catalyst 8.6   9500-HD3800   June 16, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat86-xp.html
Catalyst 8.5   9500-HD3800   May 21, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat85-xp.html
Catalyst 8.4   9500-HD3800   April 16, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat84-xp.html
Catalyst 8.3   9500-HD3800   March 5, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat83-xp.html
Catalyst 8.2   9500-HD3800   Feb. 13, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat82-xp.html
Catalyst 8.1   9500-HD3800   Jan. 16, 2008      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat81-xp.html

Catalyst 7.12   9500-HD3800   Dec. 20, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat712-xp.html
Catalyst 7.11   9500-HD3800   Nov. 21, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat711-xp.html
Catalyst 7.10   9500-HD2900   Oct. 11, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat710-xp.html
Catalyst 7.9   9500-HD2900   Sept. 10, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat79-xp.html
Catalyst 7.8   9500-HD2900   Aug. 13, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat78-xp.html
Catalyst 7.7   9500-HD2900   July 19, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat77-xp.html
Catalyst 7.6   9500-HD2900   June 25, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat76-xp.html
Catalyst 7.5   9500-HD2900   May 31, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat75-xp.html
Catalyst 7.4   9500-x1950   April 18, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat74-xp.html
Catalyst 7.3   9500-x1950   Mar. 28, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat73-xp.html
Catalyst 7.2   9500-x1950   Feb. 21, 2007      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat72-xp.html
Catalyst 7.1   9500-x1950   January 10, 2007   http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat71-xp.html

Catalyst 6.12   9500-x1950   Dec. 13, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat612-xp.html
Catalyst 6.11   9500-x1950   November 15,2006   http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat611-xp.html
Catalyst 6.10   9500-x1900   Oct. 31, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat610-xp.html
Catalyst 6.9   9500-x1900   Sept. 20, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat69-xp.html
Catalyst 6.8   9500-x1900   Aug. 18, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat68-xp.html
Catalyst 6.7   9500-x1900   July 28, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat67-xp.html
Catalyst 6.6   9500-x1900   June 26, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat66-xp.html
Catalyst 6.5   7000-x1900   May 24,2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat65-xp.html
Catalyst 6.4   7000-x1900   April 12, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat64-xp.html
Catalyst 6.3   7000-x1900   March 8, 2006      http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat63-xp.html
Catalyst 6.2   7000-x1900   February 9, 2006   http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat62-xp.html
Catalyst 6.1   7000-x1800   January 18, 2006   http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat61-xp.html


Man! You are on it! K, looks like the 8.11 is the newest set I can run:-) I'm going to give that a go, will report back with more info. Thanks so much for your help.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: AbyssUK on February 25, 2009, 05:32:52 am
So yeah I tried my 4850 using catalyst 9.1 in winxp64 and I couldn't get soft15khz to work at all :(

No bigge as I have another computer with a geforce2 ti I can use, which was almost plug and play for me SailorSat, great work!

Now to get my hands on a Naomi! then my cabinet (for me) will be complete!

AbyssUK
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 05, 2009, 09:36:38 am
It looks like I finally can be happy again.

First thing... Scrap 321x240 and 401x256, welcome 320x240 and 400x256, at least on ATI HD 4000 series and all other non-ATI chips.
Second thing. My HD 4350 makes me pretty happe as it does support 320x240 without fancy hacks AND it supports even the lowest pixel clocks.
Tinkering around has been quite funny.

Also... I'm finally starting to dig into vista, as I got a new mobo for my testrig.
But don't expect anything on THAT topic anytime soon.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 05, 2009, 06:04:44 pm
It looks like I finally can be happy again.

First thing... Scrap 321x240 and 401x256, welcome 320x240 and 400x256, at least on ATI HD 4000 series and all other non-ATI chips.

Now I thought this was a matter of Windows. But no?  And how'd you do that?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 05, 2009, 06:16:11 pm
Yeah I thought too.
But some testing showed that it's rather a bug in the catalyst as it works fine on my GeForce and Matrox cards.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on March 08, 2009, 06:12:56 am
My HD 4350 makes me pretty happe as it does support 320x240 without fancy hacks AND it supports even the lowest pixel clocks.

How did you get low res on that card?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 08, 2009, 06:21:48 am
I just installed Soft-15kHz and it worked.
So no more fancy limits.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 08, 2009, 07:05:46 pm
And I start to hate ATI (again)...
Won't work WITH the Dongle (wtf)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Scotty on March 09, 2009, 12:09:33 am
I ****LOVE**** Soft15Khz!

I just picked up a black NEC Multisync FE2111 EB monitor.  It drops down to as low as 240x240 with no problems.  I have been with Mame since version .01 and let me tell you, I fell in love with it all over again!!  This is the monitor EVERYONE needs!  In the past, I have played around with scanline files and it didn't look bad, but until you have a monitor and video card that can drop down to its native resolution, You have not played MAME!  I am using a GeForce FX 5600 video card btw.

Now, I have a question for the experts, as I have only been using Soft15 for a short time....   

Obviously, when I drop down to the games native resolution (listed in Mame), I get the scan lines.  They look FANTASTIC btw!!  But anyhow....   On horizontal games, they look great, but when I rotate a vertical game 90 degrees, the scan lines are going the wrong way.  It still look fantastic....  But the perfectionist in me would love to get the horizontal scan lines in the vertical games like Pac-Man and Donkey Kong.  I know you can make custom resolutions, so would a 240 x 256 (opposed to 256 x 240) do the trick for a game like Pac-Man??

Scotty

PS- I got the MultiSync **FREE** off of Craigs List.  A graphics design company in Cleveland upgraded to flat pannels, and wanted rid of five 19-21" monitors.  Only one was a Multisync, but WOW!!!



Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 09, 2009, 06:12:29 am
Technically you can't rotate the scanlines without rotating the monitor.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Scotty on March 09, 2009, 07:22:54 am
Technically you can't rotate the scanlines without rotating the monitor.

That is actually the plan.  I have not rotated the MultiSnc, but I have rotated all my past 17, 19 and 21's.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Scotty on March 10, 2009, 05:14:11 pm
So with the monitor rotated 90 degrees (vertical), is it possible to rotate the scan lines so the go horizontal (left to right, instead of top to bottom). 

Scotty
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 10, 2009, 05:20:24 pm
Nope. Like I said, It's not technically possible to rotate the scanlines.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 10, 2009, 07:48:13 pm
Read the monitor wiki, scotty. I know what you mean about wanting horiztonal scanlines on vertical games, with the monitor in vertical orientation (you do mean that, right?), cos I've posted several times about that, but it's a messy topic. Again, read the wiki to understand the hardware.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Scotty on March 10, 2009, 11:04:08 pm
Thanks for the replies guys.  I just got back from a friends house, who said he had a monitor (CRT) that he no longer needed as he just got a 24" Samsung flat panel and he needed the room.  Guess what I scored?  a 19" NEC MultiSync!!!

Can we say 21" Horizontal and 19" vertical???!!!!    ;D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 12, 2009, 06:34:55 pm
No. Because the measurement is diagonal.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 12, 2009, 07:21:32 pm
I fear that your "multisync" can't go down below 30kHz :)

Multisync nowadays is pretty confusing.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 14, 2009, 05:57:22 pm
It's not really. One just needs to know the actual specs of the monitor. And read the monitor wiki!  Heheheheh.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 20, 2009, 11:09:13 pm
So whats going on lately? Well I just survived attempted assassination... the wannabe murder disguised himself as GeForce card!

No actually just a cap on a 7600gt "blew off" with a loud bang an hit me (that actually hurts!). Funny part is the card itself still works fine.

(http://images.arianchen.de/explosivegrafik.jpg)

---

The dongles are finished and ready to go into "mass production".
Once that step is done the first step will be available at www.arcadeshop.de (they also ship overseas).
Other shops may follow later on.

(http://images.arianchen.de/soft15khz/edid-dongle.jpg)

---

The new build is coming along fine though I still haven't looked into Vista yet.
Many things have been rewriten; i.e. registry backups; and some others have been changed.
Most of the code is still from the first proof-of-concept so it was about time...

As for the "done" stuff:
- The default resolutions of 321 pixel width have been changed back to 320 pixels, which actually works with any card EXCEPT ATI Radeons pre-HD4000.


As for some "todo" stuff:
- Maybe Matrox on Windows 98 will be added too, but that depends on some internal testing.
- Vista support... Well like said I haven't looked into yet...

---

P.S.
I need a better way to "store" my debug cards... those boxes are way too small :(

(http://images.arianchen.de/box-o-cards.jpg)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: krick on March 20, 2009, 11:31:53 pm

As for the "done" stuff:
- The default resolutions of 321 pixel width have been changed back to 320 pixels, which actually works with any card EXCEPT ATI Radeons pre-HD4000.



So.. assuming you were going to build a computer today for playing MAME in an arcade cabinet (15khz arcade monitor) using Windows XP on a PCI-Express motherboard.  What card (be as specific as possible) would you choose for the job?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 20, 2009, 11:48:35 pm
Either an ATI Radeon HD4350 (any HD4000 should do) or a NVidia GeForce 9500GS (with the edid dongle).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: krick on March 21, 2009, 08:40:16 am
Either an ATI Radeon HD4350 (any HD4000 should do) or a NVidia GeForce 9500GS (with the edid dongle).

Any leanings toward one or the other?  I'm not seeing a lot of people selling the 9500GS.  There are TONS of HD4350s.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 21, 2009, 10:19:47 am
The HD4350 is available "passive", which may be nice if you want a silent cab, but is actually not very powerfull. (DC is most likely a no-go)

The GF9500 has a fan, but is way more powerfull. If you plan on running other Emus like DC or something like that.

And of course, the GeForce still has a 32 Resolution Limit.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 22, 2009, 12:28:23 pm
Okay back to Vista topic... Well it kinda works now, however has several limitations.

ATIs vista driver doesn't support resolutions below 640x480 no matter what, they simple don't show up which would limit ourselfes to "doubled" resolutions (which then are interlaced).

NVidias vista driver basically allows most resolutions, though all 240 line modes will automatically be "scanconverted" to 480lines, AND the drivers don't allow interlace resolutions, which means we're stuck with 352x288, 640x288 and such things.
However one may overcome THAT limitation with adding 2 or 4 lines to pretty much every mode (328x244 anyone?).

As for Matrox... I haven't looked into yet.


So it sadly looks like Vista still is a no go.
For now on Vista32 you COULD force a driver install for XP drivers which actually works pretty good though no DirectX10 and no AERO then.
Maybe the same works on Vista64 with XP64 drivers if you disable driver signing...

I don't think it will change in Windows7 :(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: isucamper on March 22, 2009, 07:30:27 pm
So it sadly looks like Vista still is a no go.

But you've made a lot of progress, and that makes me happy.  We're rooting for you, SailorSat.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on March 23, 2009, 04:12:45 pm
Yeah, mad props. I'm thinking it might be a good idea to create a special, stickied thread for the dongles so peoples knows about 'em, mm?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: drunkninja on March 26, 2009, 01:20:16 am
Hmm....is my Radeon a no go?  I have a Radeon 2100 Integrated hooked up to a D9500 monitor and am trying to get 15khz out of it, but when I use Soft15KHz, I can still only go as low as 640x480...the chipset at boot was an XPress 1250.  Looked it up and found that someone said it worked with 7.12 Catalyst, but still no luck on my end.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 26, 2009, 07:58:52 am
Are you using QuickRes to select Resolutions or default Windows Control Panel?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: swamprat96 on March 26, 2009, 07:38:07 pm
I'm using a radeon X600. I found I had to go back to Catalyst 7.1 to make it work. Catalayst 9.1 gave me problems as it kept resetting the res when it found the PC monitor. Too damned clever for its own good. I use quickres as the windows setting will not display the lower res as has been noted before

I'm also using lightguns (guncon2 clones). To make it work I followed this thread using the basic approach explained by SailorSat - plugged my monitor into the vga - set up soft15KHZ on both ports (as I need the other for the guns), set the display for 640 x480 disconnected the PC display, connected the arcade monitor and guns (via the second port using a DVI to VGA adaptor joined to a vga to composite adaptor)- and rebooted -BINGO! Both the display came up (640X480) and the guns worked (some calibration yet to do). I have not done any custom resolutions yet and I will only if the games need it. Tested area51 and its fine.

Thankyou SailorSat for this great software :notworthy:. Until I found this thread I was having all kinds of issues as for some reason an ArcadeVGA would not allow my PC to boot. This has got my project going - but now I've found I need a chassis repair..... :angry:

Never mind- nearly there
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: blkdog7 on March 27, 2009, 06:58:19 pm
I'm sorry guys, I am just not getting all of this and how to properly setup my ini files with Soft15k.

For the most part I am happy with the look of my games but I know it's not perfect.

I followed all MAME config setup steps for ArcadeVGA. Everything looks decent. But, I really need help creating the ini files for each game. In plain English, tell me what tools to use, what resolutions to add, exclude, whatever.

I am running MALA, Soft15k, MAME 129, Geforce 5200FX in a MS. Pac-Man cabinet with a VERTICAL arcade monitor. I have a WG D7700. It is mounted VERTICALLY. What is the best tool and what settings should I use to create game ini files for MAME? It seems to be that my setup would be considered a standard vertical arcade cab setup so why not make default settings for this?

Or, if someone already has a similar setup, care to share your ini files? I have the full MAME set of games but am mostly interested in early 80s classics.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on March 27, 2009, 11:39:10 pm
quikres tool for desktop

AVRES tool for native display setup
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: alui on March 30, 2009, 09:31:05 pm
SailorSat

I have a Nvidia 6600GT and am wondering what is the best driver to use for this card.  What's the lowest resolution can this card go?  I can't seem to using any of the 240 resolutions.

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: blkdog7 on March 31, 2009, 11:31:02 am
quikres tool for desktop

AVRES tool for native display setup

I have those tools already installed. I ran AVRES and it created INI files with "auto res" in them. ALL OF THEM.

I need to know what resolutions to add to AVRES or which ones to omit. And, do I need to add or delete resolutions from Soft15? And that I can't figure out too.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on April 01, 2009, 12:30:46 pm
quikres tool for desktop

AVRES tool for native display setup

I have those tools already installed. I ran AVRES and it created INI files with "auto res" in them. ALL OF THEM.

I need to know what resolutions to add to AVRES or which ones to omit. And, do I need to add or delete resolutions from Soft15? And that I can't figure out too.

what games are out of sync if any?

depending on the card your using you may need to add or delete some settings but I am not into what cards can and cannot do display wise so others would have to help with that.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: isucamper on April 01, 2009, 12:49:43 pm
Got a question.  This has been annoying me for a while and I haven't been able to figure it out yet.

How come when I scale my mame games to 640x480 and turn on -vsync or -tb, they only run at 98%-99% with Soft15Khz enabled (using the 640x480 in the 31khz set) but they run just fine at 100% if soft15Khz is not installed (using the normal windows drivers)?

I ask because I'm running a lot of vertical shooters on my horizontal monitor and I just run them at the 640x480 (same as my front end).  I get sound skips if I turn vsync or tb on. 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on April 02, 2009, 04:57:52 pm
Got a question.  This has been annoying me for a while and I haven't been able to figure it out yet.

How come when I scale my mame games to 640x480 and turn on -vsync or -tb, they only run at 98%-99% with Soft15Khz enabled (using the 640x480 in the 31khz set) but they run just fine at 100% if soft15Khz is not installed (using the normal windows drivers)?

I ask because I'm running a lot of vertical shooters on my horizontal monitor and I just run them at the 640x480 (same as my front end).  I get sound skips if I turn vsync or tb on. 

Easymamecab monitor how-to......but I'll give you a hint: it has to do with the lines displayed vs orientation.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Trevor spencer on April 06, 2009, 01:58:34 pm
hi , im gonna be getting a ASUS HD 4350 GC soon and plan to use Soft 15khz but i need a VGA to Scart cable and i dont fancy making my own , is there anywhere else that sells them apart from here

http://www.wolfsoft.de/shop/product_info.php/products_id/12836/%3Cbr%20/%3E

i cant read the site and i dont think you can change it to english ?

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Xenepp on April 13, 2009, 09:13:48 am
Speaking of SCART, I'm currently trying to get SNES/Megadrive/NegoGeo resolutions added for my "console" setup on the TV but I'm hitting a wall.

I'm using a Geforce 7300 card and thus limited to 32 resolutions. I can't figure out how to get the resolutions calculated (ANYTHING related to math makes my head explode) so happily I found a nice list online. I know I need to remove resolutions and then add my own but it's just not working, every time I try it just tells me that I can only add 32. By my reconing I have less than that:

Code: [Select]
remove 240x240
remove 256x240
remove 256x256
remove 256x264
remove 321x256
remove 401x256
remove 448x240
remove 1024x768

Modeline "256x224@50 PAL  (50Hz)" 5.320 256 274 299 341 224 260 263 312  -hsync -vsync
Modeline "256x224@60 NTSC (60Hz)" 5.370 256 274 299 341 224 236 239 262  -hsync -vsync
Modeline "512x224@50 PAL  (50Hz)" 10.640 512 548 598 681 224 260 263 312  -hsync -vsync
Modeline "512x224@60 NTSC (60Hz)" 10.740 512 548 599 683 224 236 239 262  -hsync -vsync

Modeline "304x224@50 PAL  (50Hz)" 6.327 304 319 349 405 224 262 265 312  -hsync -vsync
Modeline "304x224@60 NTSC (60Hz)" 6.365 304 319 349 405 224 236 239 262  -hsync -vsync
Modeline "304x224@60 NTSC (60Hz)" 6.499 304 336 360 416 224 234 237 264  -hsync -vsync
Modeline "320x224@50 PAL  (50Hz)" 6.660 320 336 367 426 224 262 265 312  -hsync -vsync
Modeline "320x224@60 NTSC (60Hz)" 6.700 320 336 367 426 224 236 239 262  -hsync -vsync
Modeline "320x240@50 PAL  (50Hz)" 6.660 320 336 367 426 240 270 273 312  -hsync -vsync
Modeline "320x240@60 NTSC (60Hz)" 6.700 320 336 367 426 240 244 247 262  -hsync -vsync

I might be formatting it wrong or I may not be doing things in the right order (install 15khz first or usermodes??) but I'll need guidance on that!

 -Joel
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Xenepp on April 13, 2009, 10:15:39 am
Ok well I tried just using a couple of those resolutions since I can't figure out how to remove resolutions to accommodate the new ones and it's all gone wrong.

Zsnes now just centers itself in the middle of the screen, it actually looks like the picture is interlaced. I might as well be using TV out if it's going to do crap like that.

I'm so in over my head here, all I want is to be able to play the most popular console emulators (NES/SNES/Megadrive) on the TV at their correct resolutions just like I do on my cab with MAME, I don't get why it's so hard (for my pea sized brain)..

 -Joel
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 20, 2009, 09:25:34 am
I have a Nvidia 6600GT and am wondering what is the best driver to use for this card.  What's the lowest resolution can this card go?  I can't seem to using any of the 240 resolutions.
71.84 ore some from the 93.xx series.
My 6600GT did all resolutions except for one (the one with 264 lines).


How come when I scale my mame games to 640x480 and turn on -vsync or -tb, they only run at 98%-99% with Soft15Khz enabled (using the 640x480 in the 31khz set) but they run just fine at 100% if soft15Khz is not installed (using the normal windows drivers)?
That's because its not outputing 60Hz, but 59,5Hz.
People should not use plain MAME nowadays; Makes me sick to read about "sound stuttering"...
Go for CabMAME or MAMEUIFX (or any other MAME with soundsync hack).


I'm using a Geforce 7300 card and thus limited to 32 resolutions. I can't figure out how to get the resolutions calculated (ANYTHING related to math makes my head explode) so happily I found a nice list online. I know I need to remove resolutions and then add my own but it's just not working, every time I try it just tells me that I can only add 32.
I'll never get why people try to get 224 line modes as its physical impossible to display them with 60Hz :)
All those consoles output 262 lines in 60Hz, with black borders around them.

However; back to topic... You hit the 32 resolution limit as every mode you add, even if the are all the same pixel size, is calculated as individual mode.
If you want to add 10 resolutions, you need to remove at least 8 of the stock ones.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on April 20, 2009, 05:01:46 pm

I'll never get why people try to get 224 line modes as its physical impossible to display them with 60Hz :)
All those consoles output 262 lines in 60Hz, with black borders around them.

Or overscan, yes?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Xenepp on April 21, 2009, 11:59:06 pm
Thanks for the reply SS :)

I'll never get why people try to get 224 line modes as its physical impossible to display them with 60Hz :)
All those consoles output 262 lines in 60Hz, with black borders around them.

Probably because we are dense and you know what you are talking about ;) Mind you, I want to run most of those modes in 50hz, if that makes a difference, how many lines do they output then?

Incidentally, is there a list somewhere of resolutions I should be using for (PAL) Megadrive, SNES, N64 etc? What I have running at the moment looks good but is obviously different from my real consoles. I used the 224 modes since that is what is stated at the console's native res.

However; back to topic... You hit the 32 resolution limit as every mode you add, even if the are all the same pixel size, is calculated as individual mode.
If you want to add 10 resolutions, you need to remove at least 8 of the stock ones.

Yeah I know, I just can't figure out the procedure to do so :) I checked the wiki but it's not really making sense to me, I tried what I think it was saying but it didn't work for me, just kept saying I couldn't add more lines.

On a side note, I'm suprised how more people are not using soft15khz for running console emulators on their CRT TVs. The older games look amazing and beat the crappy TV out on most video cards hands down.

 -Joel
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 22, 2009, 10:53:04 am
Mind you, I want to run most of those modes in 50hz, if that makes a difference, how many lines do they output then?

Incidentally, is there a list somewhere of resolutions I should be using for (PAL) Megadrive, SNES, N64 etc? What I have running at the moment looks good but is obviously different from my real consoles. I used the 224 modes since that is what is stated at the console's native res.

Actually thats a good question. PAL modes even have more lines (312 instead of 262).
I still use the stock modes.

The main problem is, that 256x240 doesn't say anything about what exactly the console would output, as most likely the overscan size/position is different. As for the 224 line mode for example, they most likely are exactly the same as the 240 line modes, but with 16 lines less "active" and 16 lines more "overscan".

Creating "native" resolutions for various consoles may be a goooooood weekend job :) Just somebody actually has to do it :D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 22, 2009, 10:58:27 am
Ah I totally forgot to mention
Build 48 is online which actually pretty much is the same ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- as Build 47 (released April 1st, no real bugs till now :D)  BUT features a DONATE button on the main window, as some people pointed out they couldn't find a donate button anywhere. (actually there is on, but only very few people found it)

Please note: If you want to remove the STOCK 321x240 or 321x256 resolution on ATI cards you have to add "remove 320x240" or "remove 320x256" to the custom15khz.txt.
That one is the only known "flaw" in the current build :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: spottedcheetah on April 27, 2009, 11:27:48 pm
I have a question on the Soft-15KHz. I loaded it onto my MAME system running Windows XP Pro. The Video card is a built in NVIDIA GeForce 6150 SE graphics. I am trying to use the Soft-15KHZ with a Wells Gardner D9400. I loaded the program and set it to 15KHZ. When I turn on the computer I get an out of range message on the monitor.
Any idea what I may be doing wrong?

Regards,
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: alui on April 28, 2009, 12:40:22 am
I have a Nvidia 6600GT and am wondering what is the best driver to use for this card.  What's the lowest resolution can this card go?  I can't seem to using any of the 240 resolutions.
71.84 ore some from the 93.xx series.
My 6600GT did all resolutions except for one (the one with 264 lines).

Hmm, I installed 71.84 and found that except for 512x240 which seems to run at 15khz perfectly, all the other 240 resolutions run at 32khz on my WG9200.  Am I missing something here?

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 28, 2009, 06:42:46 am
I am trying to use the Soft-15KHZ with a Wells Gardner D9400. I loaded the program and set it to 15KHZ. When I turn on the computer I get an out of range message on the monitor.
Hm thats weird, I'm pretty clueless why they are out of range Oo.



Hmm, I installed 71.84 and found that except for 512x240 which seems to run at 15khz perfectly, all the other 240 resolutions run at 32khz on my WG9200.
Hm... That's odd.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: isucamper on April 28, 2009, 11:45:30 am
I have a question on the Soft-15KHz. I loaded it onto my MAME system running Windows XP Pro. The Video card is a built in NVIDIA GeForce 6150 SE graphics. I am trying to use the Soft-15KHZ with a Wells Gardner D9400. I loaded the program and set it to 15KHZ. When I turn on the computer I get an out of range message on the monitor.
Any idea what I may be doing wrong?

Regards,

I've got a similar setup to you.  XP Pro, onboard 6150 LE, WG D9800.  I have no problems running build 46.  After you install the 15Khz stuff, you need to set your desktop to 640x480 before rebooting. 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on April 28, 2009, 03:44:36 pm
I have a Nvidia 6600GT and am wondering what is the best driver to use for this card.  What's the lowest resolution can this card go?  I can't seem to using any of the 240 resolutions.
71.84 ore some from the 93.xx series.
My 6600GT did all resolutions except for one (the one with 264 lines).

Hmm, I installed 71.84 and found that except for 512x240 which seems to run at 15khz perfectly, all the other 240 resolutions run at 32khz on my WG9200.  Am I missing something here?

Thanks

But what's the refresh rate?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: alui on April 29, 2009, 07:04:09 pm
I have a Nvidia 6600GT and am wondering what is the best driver to use for this card.  What's the lowest resolution can this card go?  I can't seem to using any of the 240 resolutions.
71.84 ore some from the 93.xx series.
My 6600GT did all resolutions except for one (the one with 264 lines).

Hmm, I installed 71.84 and found that except for 512x240 which seems to run at 15khz perfectly, all the other 240 resolutions run at 32khz on my WG9200.  Am I missing something here?

Thanks

But what's the refresh rate?

After playing with the other resolutions some more, I've found that the higher 240s (392, 448, 512,640x240) are working at 15khz with 59/60Hz refresh.  Anything below 392 (368, 352, 336, etc) don't work.  They all get switched to 30.9khz with 117Hz refresh (about 2x what they should be).  What can I do to enable the lower line resolution to display with 15khz?

Thanks

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on April 30, 2009, 03:57:53 pm
Mm-hM. That's what I thought. You probly can't. My nvidia 6200 behaves exactly the same. I've tried to enforce native resolutions at 60hz with Rivatuner, and no go. Seems something in how it interacts with Windows, because it can do almost anything, even pixel clocks below '5' via Advancemame. Anyways, what you're getting are called, or at least what I call, high-refresh native modes. The luminosity won't be as high, but there should be hardware scanlines. Right?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: alui on April 30, 2009, 11:11:33 pm
Mm-hM. That's what I thought. You probly can't. My nvidia 6200 behaves exactly the same. I've tried to enforce native resolutions at 60hz with Rivatuner, and no go. Seems something in how it interacts with Windows, because it can do almost anything, even pixel clocks below '5' via Advancemame. Anyways, what you're getting are called, or at least what I call, high-refresh native modes. The luminosity won't be as high, but there should be hardware scanlines. Right?

I guess I'll just settle with the ones that do work.  I was just making sure I didn't miss anything since SS said his 6600GT can do all 240 resolutions, except one, with the 71.84 firmware.  I guess not all 6600GT's are created equal.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 05, 2009, 07:39:15 am
Actually they aren't however I still don't see what a manufactor could change on/in the card to make it behave like it does.
However I have a clue. There was a "doublescan for lower resolutions" switch somewhere in the forceware. Maybe it get triggered with special manufactors.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 06, 2009, 04:53:06 pm
What that means alui is to look in your Nvidia control panel for such a feature. Hm, maybe I should look in mine...if I hadn't already ages ago....it's in 'display mode timing' in mine....nope, not selected.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on May 08, 2009, 07:12:43 am
I cant seem to run 640x480, the monitor goes ape ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. The odd thing is it runs 800x600 just fine. forgot to post this at home so I'll put the detasils up when I get there, but Im running it in a KI1 cab with I believe a 25" polo and a Geforce 6600 PCI card

it can hit other low resolutions meh, I'll edit this when I get home with specifics
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: alui on May 08, 2009, 06:08:44 pm
I just checked mine as well.  It's unselected.  So it's my card kicking in by itself, when the lines go below 392. 


What that means alui is to look in your Nvidia control panel for such a feature. Hm, maybe I should look in mine...if I hadn't already ages ago....it's in 'display mode timing' in mine....nope, not selected.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 10, 2009, 05:07:05 pm
I just checked mine as well.  It's unselected.  So it's my card kicking in by itself, when the lines go below 392.

It's something I haven't the knowledge to diagnose, but have already described above.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: BlazzingFlippers on May 14, 2009, 02:18:45 am
Hey all.  About to get my Wells monitor in a few days and so I will be trying this program out.   This is all new territory for me.  I have a Geforce 8800 in the machine and from the link in the SailorSat's post, it says the 8 series requires a dongle of somekind?  What exactly is that? 

Would it be easier for me to just throw in an older videocard?  I have some older ATI cards laying around.  The 8800 is probably being wasted in the Mame PC I assuming?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 14, 2009, 06:48:03 pm

Would it be easier for me to just throw in an older videocard?  I have some older ATI cards laying around.  The 8800 is probably being wasted in the Mame PC I assuming?

Thanks!

Probably. And, it depends. Current mame offloads a lot of 3D game graphics processing to the GPU. Or is starting too. Something like that.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: krick on May 14, 2009, 10:05:06 pm
Probably. And, it depends. Current mame offloads a lot of 3D game graphics processing to the GPU. Or is starting too. Something like that.

Not true at the moment.  Currently MAME offloads ZERO 3D processing to the GPU.  Current MAME uses some functionality of current video cards for combining artwork images with the new artwork system and that is all.

From the MAMEDev FAQ:
Quote
When will MAME use Direct3D/OpenGL to emulate 3D games? (http://mamedev.org/devwiki/index.php/FAQ:Video#When_will_MAME_use_Direct3D.2FOpenGL_to_emulate_3D_games.3F)

Probably not ever, at least in the sense this question is likely being asked. MAME now uses Direct3D (and SDLMAME uses OpenGL) to composite and scale the game graphics, artwork elements, and MAME UI displays, but the actual 3D rendering is always done in software in order to ensure consistent operation across different video cards and operating systems.

Additionally, the bottleneck for many 3D games in MAME is actually their insanely fast RISC processor rather than the actual 3D rendering. This is the case in games such as Crusin USA, Killer Instinct (which has no 3D hardware anyway), and Gauntlet Legends.

There has been talk in the forums of using the shaders on modern cards to let the GPU do some simple generic rendering tasks in MAME, but the devs admit that if that were to happen, it would be a LONG time from now.  Also, this is a far cry from using the actual 3D hardware in the GPU to render polygons on the screen.

If you want to play MAME on a high-res computer monitor along with bezels and other non-emulated content, then you simply need a card with a decent amount of memory to handle the giant artwork files.  I think 64MB was determined to be a decent starting point with 128MB probably being better.

If you're running running MAME on an arcade monitor, then there's really no point in using a really fast card since you cannot use high-res artwork anyway.

However, other less-accurate (but faster) emulators can and do use the GPU to some of their 3D rendering, so that's something to keep in mind.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: BlazzingFlippers on May 15, 2009, 05:56:21 pm
Got me monitor this morning, chip in the glass and all, but until I exchange it for a new one I wanted to test Soft 15khz out.  I tired it on older systems, one using a Geforce FX 5900, and one using a Radeon X1300.  The Geforce machine was able to get to more resolutions successfully than the ATI machine.

2 things though on both machines I wanted to ask.  The first is higher resolutions, say anything above 300x300, it causes the Wells monitor to produce that ear splitting sinewave sound.  640x480 and 800x600 all do this.  I'm wondering is this just normal with these monitors?  The 2nd thing is in addition to this noise, all higher resoultions jiggle and jitter very badly. 

Would any of this be helped by getting the ArcadeVGA card?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ssndk on May 16, 2009, 08:23:04 am
Got me monitor this morning, chip in the glass and all, but until I exchange it for a new one I wanted to test Soft 15khz out.  I tired it on older systems, one using a Geforce FX 5900, and one using a Radeon X1300.  The Geforce machine was able to get to more resolutions successfully than the ATI machine.

2 things though on both machines I wanted to ask.  The first is higher resolutions, say anything above 300x300, it causes the Wells monitor to produce that ear splitting sinewave sound.  640x480 and 800x600 all do this.  I'm wondering is this just normal with these monitors?  The 2nd thing is in addition to this noise, all higher resoultions jiggle and jitter very badly. 

Would any of this be helped by getting the ArcadeVGA card?

Thanks!

I have the ArcadeVGA2 card. I get the sinewave sound too, but only for a few seconds.. then it disappears. I don't have any problems with jiggling and jitter at any resolution. Are you running 640x480 and 800x600 interlaced? for the D9800 it should just be the standard output that comes out of the card, the monitor can handle it and doesn't need it to be interlaced.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: BlazzingFlippers on May 16, 2009, 03:32:12 pm
Thanks for the info ssndk.  How would I tell if I'm running those resolutions interlaced or not?  I'm using the quickres tool to change resolutions.  When I installed Soft15k, I used the Install 15k button and then rebooted.  My videocard is a Geforce FX 5900 however this high pitched sinewave at high res happens as well using another computer with ATI Radeon X1300. 

At this point I have to run Windows in 320x240 to save my ears from the sinewave but at that resolution I can't see much.

Also I should note as I just remembered this.  The monitor did not do the high pitch thing until after I installed Soft15k.  When I first used the monitor, I was able to manually switch to 640x480 or 800x600 through display properties in Windows and everything was fine.  Maybe its not just working well with my particular videocards?

I'm thinking I should just get the ArcadeVGA card and this would hopefully get rid of this?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ssndk on May 16, 2009, 06:30:41 pm
Thanks for the info ssndk.  How would I tell if I'm running those resolutions interlaced or not?  I'm using the quickres tool to change resolutions.  When I installed Soft15k, I used the Install 15k button and then rebooted.  My videocard is a Geforce FX 5900 however this high pitched sinewave at high res happens as well using another computer with ATI Radeon X1300. 

At this point I have to run Windows in 320x240 to save my ears from the sinewave but at that resolution I can't see much.

Also I should note as I just remembered this.  The monitor did not do the high pitch thing until after I installed Soft15k.  When I first used the monitor, I was able to manually switch to 640x480 or 800x600 through display properties in Windows and everything was fine.  Maybe its not just working well with my particular videocards?

I'm thinking I should just get the ArcadeVGA card and this would hopefully get rid of this?

I've never used soft15k, but I would suspect that it would run 640x480 and 800x600 interlaced since normal arcade monitors can't run these resolutions (and the fact that it sounds, from the name, like it makes all resolutions run at 15khz) . If that's the case you will get jitter, I did get jitter before I installed the tri-sync adjustments for my ArcadeVGA since those resolutions ran interlaced.

I believe there's a way to add the correct non-interlaced resolutions to soft15k.. You could do a search on that. I think if you run it at the non-interlaced resolution you should get rid of the high pitch noise too (since it wasn't there before you installed soft15k).



 



Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 16, 2009, 07:22:01 pm
You could choose "Install 31kHz".
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: BlazzingFlippers on May 16, 2009, 08:30:31 pm
You could choose "Install 31kHz".

Thanks ssndk and SailorSat for the help.

SailorSat that did the trick!  No more ear piercing and 640x480 and 800x600 resolutions are running normally.

One last question.  Some of the older Capcom games like Final Fight and SF2 run at 384x224.  This resolution produces the high pitch sound but also the screen is badly distorted.  Would this be fixed if I got the ArcageVGA card or is this a weird resolution where I just have to pick something close that looks ok?

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tyson171 on May 16, 2009, 10:35:06 pm
Hey sailorSat, first just wanted to tell you what a WONDERFUL! piece of software you have.  Secondly i'm using a radeon hd 4770 with the newest drivers and everything works great!  The monitor i'm using is a wells gardner 25k7191, 25" monitor which originally was running mortal kombat 3, my question is what resolution should i run games like Merc or other vertical shooters at?  right now the games don't take up very much of the screen?  I just used a program to go through and automatically adjust all of the resolutions, (the ultimarc utility), so whats a good starter resolution for vertical shooters?  Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ssndk on May 17, 2009, 04:07:46 am
You could choose "Install 31kHz".

Thanks ssndk and SailorSat for the help.

SailorSat that did the trick!  No more ear piercing and 640x480 and 800x600 resolutions are running normally.

One last question.  Some of the older Capcom games like Final Fight and SF2 run at 384x224.  This resolution produces the high pitch sound but also the screen is badly distorted.  Would this be fixed if I got the ArcageVGA card or is this a weird resolution where I just have to pick something close that looks ok?

Thanks

Mame tries to choose a resolution close to the native one.. but it doesn't always choose the right one. I think I have borders on that resolution.. unfortunately I can't check it right now.  Remember to use the geometry settings on the monitor (board attached to the frame) to correct for distortions, my EGA mode was totally off but looks perfect now. You will soon learn that you can't have all resolutions fill the entire screen (black borders) without constantly changing the geometry.. and that changing one game to look perfect might make another one look off.  Basically you have to adjust a little back and forth before you hit a geometry setting that's good for all resolutions. AVRES helps and mamewah's resolution tool can be used too.. but you'll probably have to tweak it a little (sometimes a lot) with the geometry settings anyway.

If your video card supports all the resolutions that you can make with soft15k I see no need for an arcadeVGA, you will still have to mess around with geometry settings. ArcadeVGA is just a nice no fuss solution for getting everything up and running quick in my opinion.
 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 17, 2009, 09:00:42 am
One last question.  Some of the older Capcom games like Final Fight and SF2 run at 384x224.
I guess MAME autochooses 384x288 for those games, which is a 50Hz resolution. Try forcing it to 392x240 via ini. See ssndk's post on that.

Guess your monitor screams with anything not 240 lines with 60Hz.
I've got that effect with a 32" Hantarex Polo too, though the screaming goes away after a few minutes (guess it's a temperature problem.)



Hey sailorSat, first just wanted to tell you what a WONDERFUL! piece of software you have.  Secondly i'm using a radeon hd 4770 with the newest drivers and everything works great!  The monitor i'm using is a wells gardner 25k7191, 25" monitor which originally was running mortal kombat 3, my question is what resolution should i run games like Merc or other vertical shooters at?  right now the games don't take up very much of the screen?  I just used a program to go through and automatically adjust all of the resolutions, (the ultimarc utility), so whats a good starter resolution for vertical shooters?  Thanks in advance!
Hm... Depends on the shooter.
Older vertical games that use 256x240 or something like that should work fine with 320x256 or something like that though you won't get 60Hz anymore. For other shooters with higher resolutions (384x224) you actually will have a problem. Either run them in 640x480 (with interlace) or you will have to "turn" them 90° and turn your inputs too. So those games get fullscreen the way they would be output on a vertical monitor, but as your controls are turned too, they should play like a side scrolling shooter.
There's no real workaround unless someone uses a 15/25kHz DualSync Monitor. (where you can use 512x384 60Hz)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tyson171 on May 17, 2009, 11:40:12 am

If your video card supports all the resolutions that you can make with soft15k I see no need for an arcadeVGA, you will still have to mess around with geometry settings. ArcadeVGA is just a nice no fuss solution for getting everything up and running quick in my opinion.
 


I think that soft 15hz is also a no fuss solution also for getting everything up and running quick! I had hardly any problems with anything, just have to do a lot of fine tuning and try to figure out how to make some games look better (which doesn't have a whole lot to do with soft 15hz, more of a custom config thing for your setup).  640x480 has a decent amount of flicker on my screen (in windows you can really tell, but with hyperspin running you can't really tell).  Not sure how to set interlace or not in interlace? Sorry i'm really new to custom resolutions ect, but we all have to start somewhere right?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 17, 2009, 05:19:49 pm
  How would I tell if I'm running those resolutions interlaced or not? 

Um, research and understand how a CRT behaves and handles different resolutions, then read the information on the Soft15 page and understand it.

For everyone - monitor wikiiiiiiiii. Like in my sig, yo. Look for it. Read it, breath it, live it. Love it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sosetsuken on May 19, 2009, 09:08:14 am
Hey SailorSat, i've got a few Questions regarding soft15khz (and one for CabMAME),

1. I've installed soft15khz, and using my new monitor(Barco CRT Monitor via RGB SCART) and my Radeon Mobility 9700 with Cat 6.5 drivers, i can get every resolution under 640x480 fine. At the moment i'm running my nullDC-Naomi @ 640x240 Stretched (so it fills the full screen), but it looks really weird.  I can't get 640x480 or above to work, they all look scrambled.  Can you point me in the right direction to get 640x480 ( i or p ) so that my naomi games look normal?

2. Running using your CabMAME patches works great(Bravo to you!) until I load games like 'Wyvern Wing' or '19XX'.  They display scrambled;

 19XX's resolution is listed as 224x384?
 Wyvern Wing's resolution is listed as 240x320?

 Is there a command i've missed to run these games with black borders at a standard res?

3. This is a kind of Off Topic question, when Street Fighter IV comes out for PC (if it supports running @ 640x480) will it be able to be run on my Cab via Scart to the monitor with soft15khz or will I run into trouble? (Will SF4 crash because of the refresh rate?)

Thanks very much for all the help and hard work you've done! :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 19, 2009, 09:33:19 am
Hm...

to 1.)
define scrambled? can you attach a photo?


to 2.) 19xx on a vertical monitor would output 384x224, if you want to run it on a horizontal monitor you would have to use 512x384 (25kHz) or in 640x480 (interlaced, 15kHz). CabMAME may be a bad choice for such cases.
Pretty much the same for Wyvern Wing (320x240 in vertical).


to 3.)
should work fine. for the "windows side" there is no difference between 15kHz and 31kHz modes, at least on 2000/XP.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sosetsuken on May 19, 2009, 11:11:36 am
Thanks for that Sailor Sat,

1.) Stupidly, I was putting in 15khz & 25khz/31khz in soft15khz, I uninstalled it on only enabled 15khz modes and it was solved.

2.) Ok thanks, i might just set up a special non CabMAME exe just for Vertical Shooters @ 640x480i.

3.) Ah great thanks for that.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on May 21, 2009, 01:02:08 am
SS, do you know what the earliest drivers that will work for an ATI X1600XT?

Hm...
6.1 supports the X1600 Series, but that doesn't state if the X1600 XT too :/

http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat61-xp.html

(just replace the cat61 with higher values for other drivers, i.e. cat66 for 6.6 :))

Well, officially nothing before the 9500 is supported anymore. I having a ---fudgesicle--- of a time finding drivers for a 9200 Pro.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 21, 2009, 09:30:21 am
I'll upload party of my archive tomorow.

AMD recently droped the ATI driver archive :(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 21, 2009, 09:49:59 am
Catalyst 6.2 for Windows 98/ME -> http://files.arianchen.de/drivers/6-2_wme_dd_cp_30314.exe (14,4 MB)

Catalyst 6.5 for Windows 2000/XP -> http://files.arianchen.de/drivers/6-5_xp-2k_dd_32464.exe (12,0 MB)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on May 21, 2009, 10:04:12 am
is there a specific nvidia driver we should be using? I cant seem to use 640x480 at all but I can use some lower resolutions and 800x600 (which looks pretty freekin good) I posted a similar thing above but Im workin on details and pix and this is my way of reminding myself.  Is there any reason that lower resolutions will work and higher resolutions work , but not 640x480?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 22, 2009, 09:02:23 am
Malenko: What driver are you using right now?

For the rest... Let an image speak for itself :D

(http://images.arianchen.de/lores-seven.png)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: isucamper on May 22, 2009, 08:34:27 pm
SS, this is great news.  Why was it so easy to get it working in Windows 7 after struggling so much to get it to work in Vista?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on May 22, 2009, 09:43:25 pm
whatever the latest one is from nvidia for the GeForce 6XXXX series
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 22, 2009, 09:54:07 pm
SS, this is great news.  Why was it so easy to get it working in Windows 7 after struggling so much to get it to work in Vista?

Actually I was quite surprised that they didn't change much in the drivers.
The "data" got a few bytes longer, but nothing I couldn't figure out.
Funny part is, both Vista and Seven basically use the same drivers.
However on Vista it still doesn't work the way it should.

As for Seven. It works pretty good though all "Interlace" resolutions are added twice for whatever reason.

640x480 shows up in 60Hz (31kHz) and 30Hz (15kHz). 800x600 shows up in 50Hz (31kHz) and 25Hz (15kHz). Other than that it works fine.

I'm currently searching for a way to "disable" the 31kHz Modes.

Funny sidenote. For GeForce 8 series (and most likely the newer ones too) you won't need the dongle anymore on Seven. WITH the dongle however, you get correct 640x480 60Hz in 15kHz...  :dunno
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 22, 2009, 09:55:50 pm
whatever the latest one is from nvidia for the GeForce 6XXXX series

Hm... doesn't help me at all ;)

You can try with this one -> http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_97.78_2.html <- which is from 2007.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: isucamper on May 23, 2009, 12:46:59 am
SS, this is great news.  Why was it so easy to get it working in Windows 7 after struggling so much to get it to work in Vista?
Actually I was quite surprised that they didn't change much in the drivers.
The "data" got a few bytes longer, but nothing I couldn't figure out.
Funny part is, both Vista and Seven basically use the same drivers.
However on Vista it still doesn't work the way it should.

Lets just hope they don't make it more Vista like once it's out of beta.

We all owe you a lot of thanks (I owe you a donation... just as soon as I get some bills out of the way).  Moving forward, people wanting native resolution arcade games in MAME will have more options as far as which operating system they can run.  As XP is getting harder to get with a new PC, its great that Window's 7 will be an option as well.   :applaud:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on May 23, 2009, 06:01:50 pm
Still waiting for support for Vista 64bit.  soft15khz didn't like my x700 in it.  XP 64bit works just fine.


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 23, 2009, 06:56:30 pm
Still waiting for support for Vista 64bit.  soft15khz didn't like my x700 in it.  XP 64bit works just fine.

My HD4350 does only show 3 resolutions on Vista AND Seven (actually the same driver).
So I guess until I find out why other resolutions get cut, we're stuck.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tyson171 on May 30, 2009, 10:39:04 pm
Finally completely finished my cab! Now the fine tuning begins.....i'm not sure what i'm doing wrong, but whenever I open up a .ini file for say frogger for mame and try to change the resolution, then save it, it doesn't reflect the change when I open up the game?  What am i doing wrong? I'm using soft15hz, all resolutinos seem to be fine, and I used arcadevgares to preconfig all of my res files.  I included all of my .ini files as well.  (also using a 25" well gardner arcade monitor). No one seems to know why? Gonna post this here again, starting to drive me crazy? is it just something simple?

Here are my .ini files:

Mame.ini

#
# WINDOWS VIDEO OPTIONS
#
video                     ddraw
numscreens                1
window                    0
maximize                  1
keepaspect                1
prescale                  1
effect                    none
waitvsync                 0
syncrefresh               0

#
# DIRECTDRAW-SPECIFIC OPTIONS
#
hwstretch                 0

#
# DIRECT3D-SPECIFIC OPTIONS
#
d3dversion                9
filter                    1

#
# PER-WINDOW VIDEO OPTIONS
#
screen                    auto
aspect                    auto
resolution                auto
view                      auto
screen0                   auto
aspect0                   auto
resolution0               auto
view0                     auto
screen1                   auto
aspect1                   auto
resolution1               auto
view1                     auto
screen2                   auto
aspect2                   auto
resolution2               auto
view2                     auto
screen3                   auto
aspect3                   auto
resolution3               auto
view3                     auto

#
# FULL SCREEN OPTIONS
#
triplebuffer              0
switchres                 1
full_screen_brightness    1.0
full_screen_contrast      1.0
full_screen_gamma         1.0

#
# WINDOWS SOUND OPTIONS
#
audio_latency             2

#
# INPUT DEVICE OPTIONS
#
dual_lightgun             0


Arcadevga.ini

[CONFIG]
Stretch=Y
StretchVal=288
Rotation=H
SingleScreen=Y
Overwrite=Y
Algorithm=P
StretchVector=N
Dash=Y
StandardView=N
[MAME]
MAMEpath=C:\HyperSpin\Emulators\Mame\
MAMEexe=mame.exe

Here is an example frogger.ini

So this is the original .ini

## frogger ##

-screen0 \\.\DISPLAY1
-switchres
-hwstretch
-nobezel
-nobackdrop
-resolution 512x288
-resolution0 512x288@0

and just playing around i tried changing it to

## frogger ##

-screen0 \\.\DISPLAY1
-switchres
-hwstretch
-nobezel
-nobackdrop
-resolution 352x256
-resolution0 352x256@0

I know that will mess up the refesh ect. but i just wanted to see how it would affect the game, but it doesn't change anything?  Please steer me in the right direction! Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sosetsuken on June 02, 2009, 11:03:46 am
SailorSat,

i'm looking to build a dedicated PC for my Cab, it'll be running Windows XP, and I'd like enough power to play Street Fighter IV.

Do the Geforce cards ie. 9600, work with soft15khz without the dongle in xp?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 02, 2009, 11:38:48 am
Nope.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: random92 on June 02, 2009, 06:29:50 pm
Hey all, I just ordered one of those VGA -> Component transcoders from ebay for cheap. Hopefully I'll be able to play arcade games on my non-scart crt tv with this. I'll post reaction when I get it. Thanks for the tool, now I gotta read
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on June 03, 2009, 01:00:07 pm
so I uninstalled soft 15, updated the drivers, reinstalled soft15. Now more of the lower resolutions work, but 800x600 doesnt and neither does 640x480 (but 640x240 does)


I rolled everything back, for now, because I'd rather have windowz running at 800x600 while I finish setting up the machine. another weird thing is , with the old driver 320x240 doesnt fill the screen (direct draw , switch res to fit, no hardware stretch) but with new driver it did.

Should I have just NOT gotten an Nvidia based card? I am using XP
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: digger909 on June 03, 2009, 02:31:17 pm
hi all!

i have trawled thru all 37 previous pages of posts but I cant find what I'm looking for.  I'm running mame v105 into a naomi universal cab with a sanwa 31khz monitor.  using a radeon 9800 pro with catalyst 6.5.  a few games look spot on but capcom/irem/midway stuff doesnt fit the screen.

could someone give me all available resolutions at 31khz to add to my usermode.txt?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 03, 2009, 03:17:40 pm
Is your screen 31kHz only?
I can provide several 120Hz modes which should give a perfect output.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: digger909 on June 03, 2009, 05:32:37 pm
Is your screen 31kHz only?
I can provide several 120Hz modes which should give a perfect output.

Yes its 31khz only.  Am I being dumb or would 120hz modes damage the monitor? 

i am a noob at this stuff but Im certain I read for my monitor, 640x480@60hz otherwise the chassis will be damaged.  But if you know different SS, I would appreciate the modes.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 03, 2009, 06:35:58 pm
Actually... Don't know anything at all :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: digger909 on June 03, 2009, 06:53:16 pm
Actually... Don't know anything at all :)

lol, now your just being bashful...  ;D

point out my obvious mistake, I can take it
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 03, 2009, 07:41:25 pm
Theres actually no mistake.

Real 240 lines at 120Hz would be exactly 31kHz.
However not every monitor actually likes 120Hz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: digger909 on June 03, 2009, 08:09:47 pm
Theres actually no mistake.

Real 240 lines at 120Hz would be exactly 31kHz.
However not every monitor actually likes 120Hz.


so do i just stick with the preset 31khz modes that install as default?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 03, 2009, 08:20:02 pm
Most likely yes, I could provide some "double" resolutions, but I don't know if that would help.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: digger909 on June 04, 2009, 10:19:46 am
Most likely yes, I could provide some "double" resolutions, but I don't know if that would help.

I have tweaked the settings in mame.ini and things look a lot better now. 
Guess the installed resolutions were good enough afterall...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on June 05, 2009, 01:10:11 am
so I uninstalled soft 15, updated the drivers, reinstalled soft15. Now more of the lower resolutions work, but 800x600 doesnt and neither does 640x480 (but 640x240 does)


I rolled everything back, for now, because I'd rather have windowz running at 800x600 while I finish setting up the machine. another weird thing is , with the old driver 320x240 doesnt fill the screen (direct draw , switch res to fit, no hardware stretch) but with new driver it did.

Should I have just NOT gotten an Nvidia based card? I am using XP

What card is this?


Most likely yes, I could provide some "double" resolutions, but I don't know if that would help.

I have tweaked the settings in mame.ini and things look a lot better now. 
Guess the installed resolutions were good enough afterall...


With a VGA monitor, I wouldn't use soft15, as you're going to be able to play any game if mame is to D3D or ddraw+hwstretch. They will all fill the screen. Running at 31khz/60hz gives you fairly blocky graphics, not all games fit the same way, and, unless you use interlace, excludes games you might otherwise want to play, for example medium-res games.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on June 05, 2009, 02:45:22 pm
What card is this?

BFG GeForce 6200 PCI
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Seven11 on June 05, 2009, 03:55:47 pm
Ok, guys, I've been messing with this for a few days now, and I seem to have a big problem.  I get everything to work (and it looks GREAT, for the record), and I even tested it with a few games, but when I tested with Super Street Fighter II Turbo it played the game just fine.  BUT when I exit the game the screen gets all messed up and I have to go thru and uninstall soft15 AND my video drivers, then reinstall drivers, reboot, reinstall soft15, then reboot again to get the screw up to go away.  I'll explain what I have so far:

Pentium4 3.0GHz
1GB RAM
160GB HDD
Nvidia 6800GS OC
J-PAC
Soft15KHz Build 48
Wells Gardner 25K series arcade monitor

I tried searching online AND in the manual for the KHz modes the monitor supports, as I'm fairly sure it is NOT a multisync, due to its age (1992), but when I hook an arcade PCB to it, it displays it perfectly.  Also, I have these lines in my custom15khz.txt file, as someone earlier on posted up (which got me this far, so thank you, whoever originally posted them).

Code: [Select]
remove 288x240
remove 296x240
remove 256x256
remove 240x240
remove 321x256
remove 352x256
remove 352x264
modeline '288x240@59,305' 6,2 288 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240@59,305' 6,2 296 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x256@59,697' 7,47 352 352 405 450 256 257 260 271 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x264@59,697' 7,47 352 352 405 458 264 265 268 279 -hsync -vsync
modeline '321x256@59,014' 6,45 321 336 368 414 256 258 261 280 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x256@60,436' 5,3 256 272 296 352 256 260 263 277 -hsync -vsync
modeline '240x240@60,436' 5,3 240 240 280 336 240 244 247 261 -hsync -vsync

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated, as I really have nowhere else to turn.  I'm fairly new to this kind of stuff, but I guess I'm learning pretty quickly as I've already read through 38 pages of this thread :-)

*EDIT*
It should also be noted that I've been using regular MAME32 for this cabinet.  As I await a response, I am going to get / install cabMAME to see if that has any affect.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on June 06, 2009, 07:35:49 pm
What card is this?

BFG GeForce 6200 PCI

...alright, let's peddle back a bit:

- what do you mean by 'not work'?

- what monitor is this?

- you might try that card on a different machine; I've seen them behave differently.


Ok, guys, I've been messing with this for a few days now, and I seem to have a big problem.  I get everything to work (and it looks GREAT, for the record), and I even tested it with a few games, but when I tested with Super Street Fighter II Turbo it played the game just fine.  BUT when I exit the game the screen gets all messed up....


- what do you mean by 'messed up'?  Pictures would help.

- what is your desktop set at?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Seven11 on June 07, 2009, 12:15:56 pm
Thanks for the response  :)

Ok, i dont believe my monitor supports 31khz, simply because i got it to stop 'messing up,' as i said, by removing all resolutions in the custom31khz.txt.  Now I have a new problem, which seems to me should be an easy fix, but I must be looking in the wrong places... 
Whenever i let MAME decide the resolution (switchres 1), the games almost always appear in quadruples or doubles on the screen.  Like divided in half or into quarters.  If I set a resolution manually, the game screens are always pretty sharp and solid, but are centered on the screen and are usually very small.  As in, less than half the size of the monitor itself. 

So, my question is:
Is there any way to make the games in mame fill the entire screen without allowing the machine to switchres? 
Or, is there some magical way to allow them to switchres without duplicating the picture, assuming that my monitor won't go into the higher KHz ranges?

To answer Ummon's previous questions:
By 'messed up,' I meant the screen goes way out of sync and even if I got it to stop rotating via vertical/horizontal hold pots, the picture would still be dicey and unreadable.  I would get you a picture, as you asked, but that problem seems to be gone now, and to recreate that issue would just be a GIGANTIC step backwards at this point  ;)
My desktop is set to 640x480,16bit,60Hz.  That is what gives me the best looking picture in windows for this particular setup, but I am definitely willing to change it if necessary.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: krick on June 07, 2009, 01:23:43 pm

If I set a resolution manually, the game screens are always pretty sharp and solid, but are centered on the screen and are usually very small.  As in, less than half the size of the monitor itself. 


Do you have artwork installed in MAME?  If you turn off bezels but leave other artwork turned on, many games will behave as you describe due to the way the new artwork system works.  Can you name a specific game that you see this behavior with?  Try going into the TAB menu and setting the display to "Standard" and see if that changes anything.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on June 07, 2009, 06:39:48 pm
Attempting to upgrade the machine in my cab.  The old one is a K6/2 400.  The new one is a 1.6G P4.  It's got a GeForce 2mx card in it.

I had everything all configured, so I ran Soft15 and moved it over to the cab.  The cab, BTW, has a JPAC and a K4600 in it.

First thing I note is what seems to be the bottom half of the screen is cut off.  And what part of the screen does show the mouse movements don't match up with what's going on onscreen.  At the very top it's okay, but the further down you move the mouse the further away the "click point" is.

And it seems to want to default to 1024x768.  Every time I select 640x480 it goes right back to 1024x768.

Any ideas?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Seven11 on June 07, 2009, 06:42:38 pm
Try going into the TAB menu and setting the display to "Standard" and see if that changes anything.

Ok, I think you're onto something here.  I went thru the mame.ini file and turned all the bezels and everything related to artwork off, but it didn't change anything.  BUT when I load a game and go thru the TAB menu video options, all of those options are set to enabled, and the screen is set to crop.  I change them all to disabled, and set the screen to full, but the settings never "take."  It always goes right back to having everything set to enabled and crop.  I'm thinking reinstalling MAME might fix this problem, so I'm going to try that.  I'm gonna go get the latest official release of MAME, unless you can suggest something better.  Thanks for the help, I'm almost there :-)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Seven11 on June 07, 2009, 06:46:53 pm
And it seems to want to default to 1024x768.  Every time I select 640x480 it goes right back to 1024x768.

You may have at some point allowed windows to adjust the screen resolution by itself.  I don't know where you would find the option to turn that off, but that might be something to look into.  I know if you set your resolution very low and restart, windows will pop up a nag bubble about your screen settings are low, and would you like windows to adjust this for you or something like that.  If you have ever said yes to that, windows itself won't allow your res to go below 1024x768@16bit.  Well, it will allow the change, but when you restart it will "fix" it back to higher res.  Aren't these windows "features" just wonderful?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on June 07, 2009, 06:48:12 pm
And it seems to want to default to 1024x768.  Every time I select 640x480 it goes right back to 1024x768.

You may have at some point allowed windows to adjust the screen resolution by itself.  I don't know where you would find the option to turn that off, but that might be something to look into.  I know if you set your resolution very low and restart, windows will pop up a nag bubble about your screen settings are low, and would you like windows to adjust this for you or something like that.  If you have ever said yes to that, windows itself won't allow your res to go below 1024x768@16bit.  Well, it will allow the change, but when you restart it will "fix" it back to higher res.  Aren't these windows "features" just wonderful?

I mean that I can manually select 640x480, but when it changes the resolution it's right back @ 1024x768.  No restart necessary.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: krick on June 07, 2009, 11:39:46 pm

Ok, I think you're onto something here.  I went thru the mame.ini file and turned all the bezels and everything related to artwork off, but it didn't change anything.  BUT when I load a game and go thru the TAB menu video options, all of those options are set to enabled, and the screen is set to crop.  I change them all to disabled, and set the screen to full, but the settings never "take."  It always goes right back to having everything set to enabled and crop.  I'm thinking reinstalling MAME might fix this problem, so I'm going to try that.  I'm gonna go get the latest official release of MAME, unless you can suggest something better.  Thanks for the help, I'm almost there :-)

Individual game ini files will override the mame.ini, so make sure that if you make changes to mame.ini, you remove those settings from the gamename.ini.

You don't need to "reinstall" MAME.  Just delete all the ini and cfg files to reset everything back to the default settings.

If you don't want to see any artwork, remove all the artwork zips from the artwork folder.  That is the easiest solution of all.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 08, 2009, 05:31:26 am
Attempting to upgrade the machine in my cab.  The old one is a K6/2 400.  The new one is a 1.6G P4.  It's got a GeForce 2mx card in it.

I had everything all configured, so I ran Soft15 and moved it over to the cab.  The cab, BTW, has a JPAC and a K4600 in it.

First thing I note is what seems to be the bottom half of the screen is cut off.  And what part of the screen does show the mouse movements don't match up with what's going on onscreen.  At the very top it's okay, but the further down you move the mouse the further away the "click point" is.

And it seems to want to default to 1024x768.  Every time I select 640x480 it goes right back to 1024x768.

Any ideas?

I guess its the MX card. NVidia cut down those cards software wise.
If you can, try another card.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on June 08, 2009, 06:55:54 am
Attempting to upgrade the machine in my cab.  The old one is a K6/2 400.  The new one is a 1.6G P4.  It's got a GeForce 2mx card in it.

I had everything all configured, so I ran Soft15 and moved it over to the cab.  The cab, BTW, has a JPAC and a K4600 in it.

First thing I note is what seems to be the bottom half of the screen is cut off.  And what part of the screen does show the mouse movements don't match up with what's going on onscreen.  At the very top it's okay, but the further down you move the mouse the further away the "click point" is.

And it seems to want to default to 1024x768.  Every time I select 640x480 it goes right back to 1024x768.

Any ideas?

I guess its the MX card. NVidia cut down those cards software wise.
If you can, try another card.

Damn, I was really hoping to be able to use this.  I have a motherboard with nForce2 and it works great with this.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 08, 2009, 01:20:17 pm
Well the other way would be to simple don't use any mode with interlace (i.e. set windows to 640x288).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SirPeale on June 08, 2009, 02:54:50 pm
I'll give it a shot.  Right now I put an ATI 9800 card in there.  But I'd rather keep that in a machine that I need the pony-power for.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: KissMyWookie on June 08, 2009, 06:23:55 pm
Still waiting for support for Vista 64bit.  soft15khz didn't like my x700 in it.  XP 64bit works just fine.

My HD4350 does only show 3 resolutions on Vista AND Seven (actually the same driver).
So I guess until I find out why other resolutions get cut, we're stuck.

Does the HD4350 work well under XP with Soft-15kHz?
(Are you able to set a lot of custom modes and have them all useable)

I love your tool SailorSat - found it a couple of days ago and have been playing around with it on an XM2950 ever since.  :notworthy:

Steve
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 08, 2009, 06:42:09 pm
Most likely one of the best cards on XP atm.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: KissMyWookie on June 10, 2009, 03:13:01 am
Re: the ATI 4350 cards...
Most likely one of the best cards on XP atm.

Does this also apply to the outputs of 4550, 4650 and 4800 series cards? What kind of a minimum pixel clock can they output?

I'm currently using an old NVidia 6600 GT card, which I'm very happy with the wide range of modeline outputs I can achieve, but the NVidia drivers are a big let down (with only 32 modes supported). It can go down to at least 6MHz though.

(After first finding Soft-15kHz, I tried it on my Win7 machine which has an ATI 4870 1GB card, but unfortunately I read that the drivers do not yet support custom modes - so I'm unable to compare the outputs to the NVidia.)

Update: I just ordered a Sapphire 4550 passively cooled card from NewEgg.com (a reseller over here in the US). They had it for $39.99 with free shipping and a $10 mail in rebate. It has an HDMI connector on the back, which is good for future proofing and uses the same core as the 4350, but with GDDR3 memory running at 1600MHz.
For anyone else who is interested in picking up one of these great bargains, here is the URL:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102819
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 10, 2009, 04:18:57 am
I've only tried the 4350 of the 4000 series radeon but some friend uses a 4650 and it works fine.

As for the PixelClock. Well actually I've yet to reach the minimum clock on a Radeon card (except X1000-HD3000 series, where it SOMETIMES is limited to a minimum of 7.12MHz)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: krick on June 10, 2009, 05:29:08 pm

Update: I just ordered a Sapphire 4550 passively cooled card from NewEgg.com (a reseller over here in the US). They had it for $39.99 with free shipping and a $10 mail in rebate. It has an HDMI connector on the back, which is good for future proofing and uses the same core as the 4350, but with GDDR3 memory running at 1600MHz.
For anyone else who is interested in picking up one of these great bargains, here is the URL:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102819


Wow, nice card and a great price.  I think I'm going to do a hardware refresh on my MAME cabinet...


ASUS P5KPL-CM LGA 775 Intel G31 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131288

Intel Pentium E5200 Wolfdale 2.5GHz 2MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116072

They sell the motherboard + CPU as a combo with a $10 discount...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.197649
Combo Price: $115.98 (free shipping)

OCZ Fatal1ty Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ2F10664GK
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227364
$49.99 ($39.99 after $10.00 Mail-In Rebate)  Free Shipping

So, motherboard + CPU + memory + video card = $220.38 (after taxes) - $20 rebates = $200.38
All items have free shipping.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: random92 on June 10, 2009, 09:38:29 pm
Hey all, I need some help here!

I have the vga->component adapter hooked up and installed soft15khz (hd2900pro vid adapter).

I hit "install 15khz" button, set desktop to 640x480 (on my lcd monitor), then rebooted with tv hooked up. I can sort of see it, but it's not perfect, very jumpy picture. Is the video 480i initially?
I can't seem to change the resolutions. How do you change to other low resolutions?

I mean, it seems to work a bit. With soft15k uninstalled and adapter connected to tv, the picture is very distorted because of the progressive 640x480 input. However, with soft15 installed I can sort of see things, but video remains jumpy.


Anyone with experience connecting to a TV care to give a little advice? Thanks!

ps.
I wasn't able to choose a lower resolution with either windows or catalyst control center. both at 640x480 for lowest
-edit
tried quickres. since i can't see what's going on really i picked a bad resolution and things got crazy forcing me to uninstall drivers. ...

-edit2
so far connected the vga-component adapter to my plasma which seemed OK with low resolutions. set it to 321x240 with quickres then connected the component cable to the crt. it was half way stable, jumping a bit occasionally with some warpiness going on in the middle section. other resolutions were scrambled, like 256x256

I'm pretty sure this transcoder doesn't touch the video timing/size, just takes it from vga to component.
for a USA ntsc tv, what would the 15khz settings it can handle be? i'm hoping to get the same low resolution progressive modes I can get with classic games on the wii.

another question: how can you set fullscreen output to some emulators for 320x240 etc when they have that option blocked out? is mame/arcade the only way to go for soft15k?

thanks very much for your time everyone
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 11, 2009, 06:01:22 am
I don't have a monitor with component input, so I never could debug that stuff.
There are various possibilities.

a) The monitor doesn't like "non standard" timings.
b) The graphics card component out doesn't like "non standard" timings.
c) well... whatever.

All I now know is that we can force any radeon to output YUV instead of RGB on the VGA ports.
As for now, stick to 240 line modes as they seem to be somewhat stable.

*EDIT*
As for Fullscreen modes. Well that depends on the emulator.
Just don't use 320x240, as that resolution is currently disabled and replaced by 321x240 on your radeon.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Chunce DeLeone on June 11, 2009, 08:59:28 am
How does this card look? 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161152&Tpk=ATI%20Radeon%209250%20AGP
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ramza on June 11, 2009, 03:38:12 pm
Hi everybody,

I'm using soft15khz on my Astro City and it's working really well. However, I was wondering if there is a custom res to match the CPS3. 392x240 looks ok with cps3emulator, but not as nice as the arcade board. So did anyboy try to add a 384x224@59,583393 (CPS3 runs at 59,583393hz) custom res to soft15khz?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: krick on June 12, 2009, 12:00:14 pm
Well, I got XP installed and all that jazz.  I'm using a Radeon HD 4550... finding an old card is kind of tricky it seems. :(
Anyways, I run soft15khz and the "Install 15khz", "Install 25khz", "Install 31khz" options are ghosted.  Should I try an older version of Catalyst?  I'm using whatever came w/ the card, which is presumably quite new.

EDIT: Got a cheap 9250.  Now to wait for that sucker to arrive.


Did you ever get your HD 4550 working?  I've got one coming in the mail today and I was trying to figure out what to expect when using soft15KHz on it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on June 12, 2009, 07:52:05 pm
I don't have a monitor with component input, so I never could debug that stuff.


*EDIT*
As for Fullscreen modes. Well that depends on the emulator.
Just don't use 320x240, as that resolution is currently disabled and replaced by 321x240 on your radeon.

Since it's component, vs SCART, I think you're supposed to stick with one resolution....um, 640x420.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: KissMyWookie on June 15, 2009, 03:26:59 am
Today I replaced my NVidia 6600GT with an ATI 4550.

I did have problems with a blank screen after installing Soft-15kHz resolutions and rebooting - but that kind of fixed itself after I told Catalyst to ignore the EDID and set the maximums myself (also unchecking the display properties box - "ignore resolutions that this monitor cannot display").

Now I have uncovered another two problems....

1) The first - I installed my 320x224 resolution that I created on the NVidia card, which displayed NeoGeo games at their correct framerate and without borders... but on the ATI card it displays the same borders that are shown when running Neo-Geo games at 320x240 resolution. Is this something to do with Soft-15kHz changing the modeline at all?

If it's not, then the NVidia card gives much more accurate and true outputs, but has the 32 mode limit - while the ATI screws up the outputs but has no limit (correct?). ... I'm not sure if I'll send back the ATI card, as having the hardware give a correct output is more important than having a driver bug which restricts the number of modes.

2) The second (probably a MameUI bug) - under the screen tab, the "\\.\display1" setting will not display all of the modes installed by Soft-15kHz, but the "\\.\display2" setting does (or seems to). Has anyone else encountered this problem before?

Steve

Forgot  to mention - I am using Catalyst 9.5 (v8.612 driver) on XP 32-bit.  Connected to an NEC XM2950 multisync monitor via VGA cable.
NVidia 6600GT card was an ASUS Top edition.
ATI 4550 card is a Sapphire passively cooled 512MB version.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: krick on June 15, 2009, 03:37:20 am

I did have problems with a blank screen after installing Soft-15kHz resolutions and rebooting - but that kind of fixed itself after I told Catalyst to ignore the EDID and set the maximums myself (also unchecking the display properties box - "ignore resolutions that this monitor cannot display").


I got the same ATI HD 4550 card from Newegg.

Can you explain what you did in a little more detail?  I seem to be having the same blank screen issue.  It worked the first time I hooked it up, but after I rebooted, nothing shows up.

What drivers are you using?  I'm currently using the driver that shipped with my card.

these issues below might need to be addressed by SailorSat...

I notice that the XP loading screen is all scrambled, like the freq is out of range or something.  I expected the BIOS screens to be doubled, but I thought that once windows started loading, soft15khz would kick in.

Any idea why 800x600 would be MORE readable than 640x480  on my arcade monitor?  They're both interlaced, but the flicker on the 640x480 is brutal.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: krick on June 15, 2009, 03:53:58 am
This is kinda old and you've probably already seen it, but just in case...


CASE STUDY OF PROBLEMS CAUSED EDIDs
Fixing the nVIDIA EDID Problem

http://www.geocities.com/jgeneedid/
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: KissMyWookie on June 15, 2009, 04:03:48 am
This is kinda old and you've probably already seen it, but just in case...


CASE STUDY OF PROBLEMS CAUSED EDIDs
Fixing the nVIDIA EDID Problem

http://www.geocities.com/jgeneedid/

That doesn't apply for ATI cards.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 15, 2009, 06:06:55 am
You have to use the FIRST Output on ATI cards. Most likely it is NOT the VGA port, but the DVI port on modern cards.

Thats why you have to use \\.\DISPLAY2 on your setup.

Give it a try with a DVI-VGA adapter.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: krick on June 15, 2009, 11:54:49 am
This is kinda old and you've probably already seen it, but just in case...


CASE STUDY OF PROBLEMS CAUSED EDIDs
Fixing the nVIDIA EDID Problem

http://www.geocities.com/jgeneedid/

That doesn't apply for ATI cards.

I know.  That post was for SailorSat. :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: KissMyWookie on June 15, 2009, 05:06:38 pm
You have to use the FIRST Output on ATI cards. Most likely it is NOT the VGA port, but the DVI port on modern cards.

Thats why you have to use \\.\DISPLAY2 on your setup.

Give it a try with a DVI-VGA adapter.

That would make sense if I couldn't see any of the custom resolutions under the \\.\DISPLAY1 list - but I can see around 15-20, just not all of them.

...I've just spent another several hours working on the problem. I removed the existing Soft-15kHz settings, downloaded Catalyst 9.6 (which came out this morning), removed Catalyst 9.5 and deleted the registry entries for the card.

I then installed the new Catalyst 9.6, backed up the registry key(s), installed my custom user modes using Soft-15kHz into both display entries (even though I am only using one attached monitor) and rebooted.

The good news - no black screen this time, so I guess they've fixed that in 9.6. The bad news - MameUI behaves exactly as before. \\.\DISPLAY1 only shows around 20 of the custom modes and \\.\DISPLAY2 shows all 40 (or so) of them. (This must be a MameUI bug).

320x224@59Hz mode has borders top and bottom still and appears to be identical to a 320x224 game running in 320x240 mode. (Remember that I made this mode with the NVidia card attached and it worked perfectly - with no borders).

I shut down the computer, swapped the monitor cable from the DVI port with dongle, back to the dedicated VGA out port. Restarted the computer and results were identical.

Altering the mode of \\.\DISPLAY1 or \\.\DISPLAY2 changes the mode that the game(s) run in, no matter which output port the VGA cable is connected to. This is probably a behaviour of the ATI driver running in single display mode.

I don't think the ADVV tool will work with ATI 4000 series cards, so I'm unable to experiment with the values of the 320x224 mode - but if the mode displayed correctly with the NVidia board, it should work with the ATI, right?

I did run AdvanceMame and the 320x224 mode it generated filled the screen without performing any stretching of the image. Too bad it's no longer kept up to date.

I think the only thing left to do is see if there is a verbose debug output in MameUI, to double check that it is at least attempting to put the screen into 320x224 mode. If it is, then the problem has to be ATI's fault - they might be messing around with the mode values.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: krick on June 16, 2009, 01:34:20 am
I was a long-time user of an AGP ArcadeVGA 7000, but now that I've upraded my computer, I decided to give Soft15KHz a try.
I run Windows XP and my setup includes a JPAC and a Hantarex Polo 25 15KHz arcade monitor.

Something very wrong is happening with my new card and Soft15KHz.

It's a Sapphire ATI Radeon 4550 purchased from Newegg...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102819

I managed to get it working ONCE on my 15KHz arcade monitor.  I tried two games... Galaga (vertical) and Bosconian (horizontal) and they both looked great.  I tried the windows desktop at 640x480 (very shaky and hard to look at) and 800x600, much more stable but text was harder to read.

I shut it down, started it back up, and nothing.  The JPAC has an orange LED lit, which I think means an out of range signal.  I see the split screen during the bios and windows XP splash screen, though they're rolling quite a bit.  As soon as it gets to windows, it's out of range and completely black.

I've got it connected to the VGA output on the card.  This was the output that I used the one time that it worked.

I hooked it back to my normal monitor, booted into VGA mode, then uninstalled Soft15KHz.  Another weird thing is that after uninstalling it, I don't get all my normal resolutions back in the display properties settings tab.  I end up with a bunch of weird resolutons where the X is always  the same, 1280, I think.   However, the Y changes.

Also, and I don't know if this means anything, but when I boot into VGA mode before uninstalling Soft15KHz, my PC monitor (a multi-sync LCD) tells me that the signal is out of range.  29KHz or something like that.  And the image is shifted off the screen a bit.

If you want, I'll gladly donate $40 for you to get one of these cards for testing.  Just say the word.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 16, 2009, 01:56:42 am
I managed to get it working ONCE on my 15KHz arcade monitor.  I tried two games... Galaga (vertical) and Bosconian (horizontal) and they both looked great.  I tried the windows desktop at 640x480 (very shaky and hard to look at) and 800x600, much more stable but text was harder to read.

I shut it down, started it back up, and nothing.  The JPAC has an orange LED lit, which I think means an out of range signal.  I see the split screen during the bios and windows XP splash screen, though they're rolling quite a bit.  As soon as it gets to windows, it's out of range and completely black.

I've got it connected to the VGA output on the card.  This was the output that I used the one time that it worked.
Hum... Maybe give it a try with the DVI port and a DVI-to-VGA Dongle inbetween.
But its still strange at least three people reported such an issue lately.



I hooked it back to my normal monitor, booted into VGA mode, then uninstalled Soft15KHz.  Another weird thing is that after uninstalling it, I don't get all my normal resolutions back in the display properties settings tab.  I end up with a bunch of weird resolutons where the X is always  the same, 1280, I think.   However, the Y changes.

Also, and I don't know if this means anything, but when I boot into VGA mode before uninstalling Soft15KHz, my PC monitor (a multi-sync LCD) tells me that the signal is out of range.  29KHz or something like that.  And the image is shifted off the screen a bit.
Guess I'll need to take a look into the backup routines once more.
As for VGA mode... Hm... ok... Thats strange.



It's a Sapphire ATI Radeon 4550 purchased from Newegg...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102819

If you want, I'll gladly donate $40 for you to get one of these cards for testing.  Just say the word.
That would be very nice, though I can't promise anthing.
(wow... 4550 cards seem to be pretty rare)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: krick on June 16, 2009, 02:45:59 am


If you want, I'll gladly donate $40 for you to get one of these cards for testing.  Just say the word.


That would be very nice, though I can't promise anthing.
(wow... 4550 cards seem to be pretty rare)


Donation sent.  Hopefully you can find one locally once they become more common.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: KissMyWookie on June 16, 2009, 04:42:08 am
...
Something very wrong is happening with my new card and Soft15KHz.

It's a Sapphire ATI Radeon 4550 purchased from Newegg...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102819
...

Krick - have you tried it with the newest Catalyst 9.6 drivers? (They came out yesterday - June 15th).

Also, create a usermodes.txt file in your Soft-15kHz directory and put these VESA standard modelines in it...

Code: [Select]
ModeLine "640x480_60Hz (VESA)" 25.18 640 656 752 800 480 490 492 525 -HSync -VSync
ModeLine "640x480_72Hz (VESA)" 31.50 640 664 704 832 480 489 492 520 -HSync -VSync
ModeLine "640x480_75Hz (VESA)" 31.50 640 656 720 840 480 481 484 500 -HSync -VSync
ModeLine "800x600_56Hz (VESA)" 36.00 800 824 896 1024 600 601 603 625 +Hsync +Vsync
ModeLine "800x600_60Hz (VESA)" 40.00 800 840 968 1056 600 601 605 628 +HSync +VSync
ModeLine "800x600_72Hz (VESA)" 50.00 800 856 976 1040 600 637 643 666 +HSync +VSync
ModeLine "800x600_75Hz (VESA)" 49.50 800 816 896 1056 600 601 604 625 +HSync +VSync
ModeLine "1024x768_60Hz (VESA)" 65.00 1024 1048 1184 1344 768 771 777 806 -HSync -VSync

I put those in for my multisync monitor (which can handle these rates), so delete the ones that your monitor can't handle.

After you've installed the Catalyst 9.6 drivers, reinstall Soft-15kHz with the above (appropriate) user modes too - then try rebooting.

Steve

PS: I'm installing Ubuntu 9.04 on my PC, so I can experiment with my 320x224 modeline in a different environment (drivers etc.) but with the same hardware. I have used Linux before, but it's been a few years - and X-Windows config has never been easy. I'll post my findings soon.

Update: Linux was a waste of time. The kernel framebuffer drivers that are needed for the AdvanceMame mode tool (ADVV) don't work with any of the recent ATI Radeon cards (basically, anything newer than 2004).  Of course, I only found this out by looking at the source code - there were no error messages from the radeonfb module - and I wasted around 35 hours trying to get it to work!
:angry:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Chunce DeLeone on June 16, 2009, 11:09:13 am
Does anyone have a picture of Soft 15k running native resolutions on a TV? 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: muzzakus on June 16, 2009, 10:38:23 pm
Hi All,

I've been using an old clunker in my cab with a Gforce4MX AGP succesfully with all resolutions including 480i.   

I'm currently switching to a more powerful multi core system with a Geforce 7100GS PCIE gfx card.  I cannot get interlace out of this which defeats me running Naomi etc emulation at 480i 15khz.

Can anybody please confirm if they have sucesfully gotten interlace resolutions for a Geforce 7100GS.  Maybe I just need different drivers?

If not possible, whats the cheapest PCIE card that is certified to do all the listed 15kz resollutions provided by Soft15kz ?



Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: krick on June 16, 2009, 11:04:56 pm

Krick - have you tried it with the newest Catalyst 9.6 drivers? (They came out yesterday - June 15th).

Also, create a usermodes.txt file in your Soft-15kHz directory and put these VESA standard modelines in it...

Code: [Select]
ModeLine "640x480_60Hz (VESA)" 25.18 640 656 752 800 480 490 492 525 -HSync -VSync
ModeLine "640x480_72Hz (VESA)" 31.50 640 664 704 832 480 489 492 520 -HSync -VSync
ModeLine "640x480_75Hz (VESA)" 31.50 640 656 720 840 480 481 484 500 -HSync -VSync
ModeLine "800x600_56Hz (VESA)" 36.00 800 824 896 1024 600 601 603 625 +Hsync +Vsync
ModeLine "800x600_60Hz (VESA)" 40.00 800 840 968 1056 600 601 605 628 +HSync +VSync
ModeLine "800x600_72Hz (VESA)" 50.00 800 856 976 1040 600 637 643 666 +HSync +VSync
ModeLine "800x600_75Hz (VESA)" 49.50 800 816 896 1056 600 601 604 625 +HSync +VSync
ModeLine "1024x768_60Hz (VESA)" 65.00 1024 1048 1184 1344 768 771 777 806 -HSync -VSync

I put those in for my monitor, so delete the ones that your monitor can't handle.

After you've installed the Catalyst 9.6 drivers, reinstall Soft-15kHz with the above (appropriate) user modes too - then try rebooting.


I installed the 9.6 drivers and it was still doing the same thing.  However, I tried two things and it fixed it.  I'm not sure which did the trick...

1) I installed Soft15KHz to BOTH adapters (I had only installed to the first before).

2) I connected my monitor to the DVI port using an adapter dongle.

I'm thinking it might have been the dongle that did the trick.

However, my party got cut short when the flyback tranformer in my Hantarex Polo 25 started arcing electricity out the top and I quickly yanked the power plug from the wall.  I don't think it's related to using Soft15KHz, but maybe it was starting to go and running my windows desktop at 800x600 for a few minutes pushed it over the edge.  Who knows.  I'm in the process of ording a new flyback and a cap kit (might as well, since I'll have it apart) and I hope to be back testing within a week or so.


I'm curious about your list of modelines above.  How do they differ from the modelines that soft15khz offers?

I'm pretty sure that trying to run 800x600 is probably the most that I can expect out of my monitor.  I would be afraid to even try 1024x768.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: KissMyWookie on June 17, 2009, 02:09:48 am
I'm curious about your list of modelines above.  How do they differ from the modelines that soft15khz offers?

The 640x480 mode from Soft-15kHz runs at 59.6Hz, the 800x600 and 1024x768 modes are around 50Hz. None of them are done to VESA timing standards - which are common modes that all PC/multisync monitors (made within the last 15 or so years) are compatible with (providing it supports the clock and refresh rates). These modes are normally built in to a video cards BIOS.

I found the modes listed in various places on the web and cross checked them against different lists to make sure they were correct.

I installed the VESA modes so that I could run my desktop at normal resolutions, with no flicker on my multisync monitor (which can display 5-60MHz pixel clock, 14.2-65kHz horizontal clock and 40-120 vertical refresh).

Steve

* Added clarification that the VESA standard modes are for PC and multisync monitors.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 17, 2009, 03:03:12 am
If you run those VESA modelines on a normal 15kHz monitor, you won't get anything usefull except a screaching chassis.

640x480 60Hz Progressive is 31kHz.
800x600 60Hz Progressive is 37kHz.
1024x768 60Hz Progressive is 48kHz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 17, 2009, 03:11:56 am
I'm currently switching to a more powerful multi core system with a Geforce 7100GS PCIE gfx card.  I cannot get interlace out of this which defeats me running Naomi etc emulation at 480i 15khz.

Can anybody please confirm if they have sucesfully gotten interlace resolutions for a Geforce 7100GS.  Maybe I just need different drivers?

If not possible, whats the cheapest PCIE card that is certified to do all the listed 15kz resollutions provided by Soft15kz ?

Quite funny you did get interlace on a GeForce4 MX.
Though It doesn't surprise me that the 7100GS doesnt.

NVidias Lowend cards usually are feature limited including a "forced" inability to use interlace.

I've used a 7300GS before with ForceWare 93.71 so maybe give it a try with older drivers.
I've also used a 7100 ONBOARD with ForceWare 163.75.

As for the cheapest solution... Well, for a new card, most likely the ATI HD4350 should do its job.
But maybe a used GeForce 7600GT would be better. Maybe take a look on ebay.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: muzzakus on June 17, 2009, 05:04:53 am
I'm currently switching to a more powerful multi core system with a Geforce 7100GS PCIE gfx card.  I cannot get interlace out of this which defeats me running Naomi etc emulation at 480i 15khz.

Can anybody please confirm if they have sucesfully gotten interlace resolutions for a Geforce 7100GS.  Maybe I just need different drivers?

If not possible, whats the cheapest PCIE card that is certified to do all the listed 15kz resollutions provided by Soft15kz ?

Quite funny you did get interlace on a GeForce4 MX.
Though It doesn't surprise me that the 7100GS doesnt.

NVidias Lowend cards usually are feature limited including a "forced" inability to use interlace.

I've used a 7300GS before with ForceWare 93.71 so maybe give it a try with older drivers.
I've also used a 7100 ONBOARD with ForceWare 163.75.

As for the cheapest solution... Well, for a new card, most likely the ATI HD4350 should do its job.
But maybe a used GeForce 7600GT would be better. Maybe take a look on ebay.

Thanks SailorSat.  WIll try your recommended drivers and report outcome here.  Otherwise will go for HD4350.  Need that 480i !
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Chunce DeLeone on June 17, 2009, 10:00:49 pm
Sharp 19' arcade monitor, jpac, ati x550 and mame1.09 and ofcourse soft15k 
Some games are perfect, some are split in half and blurry, some are blank, and some look like they are out of sync.  How do i get all the games to look perfect with the exception of some rotating here and there? Is there a list of custom resolutions, mame ini's or modelines that people have been using?   
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Chunce DeLeone on June 18, 2009, 03:15:38 pm
Another thing is that the JPAC is not recognized, I have to start up the pc with a standard PC monitor and then switch to the ARCADE monitor....

I have a couple Mame sets 1.09, 1.04, and 1.30,  Which one would you use for the most classic compatibility? 

Has anyone gotten frogger &  Mrs. Pacman to work and at what res? 

Robotron is fine, 4Dwarriors, street fighter etc.  are fine. 

ATI Radeon X550, I want to save cash. 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 18, 2009, 04:03:51 pm
Some games are perfect, some are split in half and blurry, some are blank, and some look like they are out of sync.  How do i get all the games to look perfect with the exception of some rotating here and there?
Simple put, you can't.

However. First, check each resolution with QuickRes (Soft-15kHz downloads).
If you select a resolution that doesn't work. Hit ESC, and it should switch back.
Note every resolution that doesn't work, and we'll see about that later.
Could be a driver issue. (Catalyst too new).


Another thing is that the JPAC is not recognized, I have to start up the pc with a standard PC monitor and then switch to the ARCADE monitor....
If you get a black screen after windows starts up with the J-PAC, try using the OTHER port on the Radeon. You may need a DVI-to-VGA dongle.
Modern cards "sense" monitors via the RGB-to-Ground resistors (usually 75 Ohms), but the J-PAC doesn't have these.
Soft-15kHz enforces detection of BOTH VGA ports and on newer cards, the primary is "in" the DVI port.


Has anyone gotten frogger &  Mrs. Pacman to work and at what res?
Without rotating the monitor? 352x264 if your monitor & radeon like it.



I installed the 9.6 drivers and it was still doing the same thing.  However, I tried two things and it fixed it.  I'm not sure which did the trick...

1) I installed Soft15KHz to BOTH adapters (I had only installed to the first before).

2) I connected my monitor to the DVI port using an adapter dongle.

I'm thinking it might have been the dongle that did the trick.
I'd bet on the dongle too.


However, my party got cut short when the flyback tranformer in my Hantarex Polo 25 started arcing electricity out the top and I quickly yanked the power plug from the wall.  I don't think it's related to using Soft15KHz, but maybe it was starting to go and running my windows desktop at 800x600 for a few minutes pushed it over the edge.  Who knows.  I'm in the process of ording a new flyback and a cap kit (might as well, since I'll have it apart) and I hope to be back testing within a week or so.
Holy Sh!t... Those moments get the blood pumping.

As for the resolution. Well its harmless as the total line count (625 / 2 = 312,5 [interlaced]) multiplied by the refresh (50Hz) outputs 15625 Hz.

As for the maximum resolution. Well 1024x768 works, but is more likely 1024x600 visible. It's there for "compatibility" only. Not usefull at all.

Theoretically you could get real 768 lines, by reducing the refresh to 45Hz. But most arcade screens won't sync and even if it did, it would be VERY bad for your eyes.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: krick on June 18, 2009, 06:50:25 pm
Is there an easy way to remove all the 16-bit resolutions from QuickRes?

I really can't see me ever using them over the 32-bit versions.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on June 18, 2009, 08:18:21 pm
Hi All,

I've been using an old clunker in my cab with a Gforce4MX AGP succesfully with all resolutions including 480i....I'm currently switching to a more powerful multi core system with a Geforce 7100GS PCIE gfx card.  I cannot get interlace out of this which defeats me running Naomi etc emulation at 480i 15khz.

I know nothing about Naomi systems, but I just couldn't see them using 480i. And according to Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sega_arcade_system_boards), at least the ones they list the display resolution for, they're mostly standard res, with a few being medium res, and one can be, either, medium res or VGA. I bet those that aren't listed are VGA.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: muzzakus on June 18, 2009, 11:31:43 pm
Hi All,

I've been using an old clunker in my cab with a Gforce4MX AGP succesfully with all resolutions including 480i....I'm currently switching to a more powerful multi core system with a Geforce 7100GS PCIE gfx card.  I cannot get interlace out of this which defeats me running Naomi etc emulation at 480i 15khz.

I know nothing about Naomi systems, but I just couldn't see them using 480i. And according to Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sega_arcade_system_boards), at least the ones they list the display resolution for, they're mostly standard res, with a few being medium res, and one can be, either, medium res or VGA. I bet those that aren't listed are VGA.

Naomi's mid rez games you may aswell upscale to interlace if running 15khz.  But thats just one example, theres also Capcom games that run SONY ZN-1 harware capable of 740x480.  And there are many more I'm sure.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: muzzakus on June 20, 2009, 01:48:30 am
I'm currently switching to a more powerful multi core system with a Geforce 7100GS PCIE gfx card.  I cannot get interlace out of this which defeats me running Naomi etc emulation at 480i 15khz.

Can anybody please confirm if they have sucesfully gotten interlace resolutions for a Geforce 7100GS.  Maybe I just need different drivers?

If not possible, whats the cheapest PCIE card that is certified to do all the listed 15kz resollutions provided by Soft15kz ?

Quite funny you did get interlace on a GeForce4 MX.
Though It doesn't surprise me that the 7100GS doesnt.

NVidias Lowend cards usually are feature limited including a "forced" inability to use interlace.

I've used a 7300GS before with ForceWare 93.71 so maybe give it a try with older drivers.
I've also used a 7100 ONBOARD with ForceWare 163.75.

As for the cheapest solution... Well, for a new card, most likely the ATI HD4350 should do its job.
But maybe a used GeForce 7600GT would be better. Maybe take a look on ebay.

Thanks SailorSat.  WIll try your recommended drivers and report outcome here.  Otherwise will go for HD4350.  Need that 480i !

I can confirm ForceWare 93.71 gives me full 15khz support including 480i on Geforce 7100GS PCIe AND even the onboard Geforce 6150.  It just goes to show how selective drivers are.  Good on you SailorSat!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Chunce DeLeone on June 23, 2009, 09:05:31 am
SailorSat,
Thank you very much for the info!!!!  What are people using for their windows desktop res on a 19inch vertical 15k arcade monitor? 
Quote
Simple put, you can't.

However. First, check each resolution with QuickRes (Soft-15kHz downloads).
If you select a resolution that doesn't work. Hit ESC, and it should switch back.
Note every resolution that doesn't work, and we'll see about that later.
Could be a driver issue. (Catalyst too new).
Soft15k told me that my drivers were too new for the X550, I should have listened.  I will try the older ones that soft 15k is recommending.  I fooled around with one of the res tools that produces mame ini's, the name is escaping me right now, but things are working better now.  Also the I was able to correct the wavy lines with the V-hold on the monitor itself.  I think that is going to be hard to get rid of and I may just have to tweak the v-hold for different games.  Anyone else come to this conclusion?  I think rewiring the V-hold to the front of the cab is a must in the future. 

Quote
If you get a black screen after windows starts up with the J-PAC, try using the OTHER port on the Radeon. You may need a DVI-to-VGA dongle.
Modern cards "sense" monitors via the RGB-to-Ground resistors (usually 75 Ohms), but the J-PAC doesn't have these.
Soft-15kHz enforces detection of BOTH VGA ports and on newer cards, the primary is "in" the DVI port.
That is easy, and would be awsome if it works.  I will try, the card came with a DVI to VGA dongle.

Quote
Has anyone gotten frogger &  Mrs. Pacman to work and at what res?
Without rotating the monitor? 352x264 if your monitor & radeon like it.
Somehow with the res tool and tweaking the V-hold, they work.  How can you tell what res mame is actually using when a game is played?  Is it the res that shows up in the dialouge box right before the game starts? 


I am getting huge overscan with Streetfighter games on my standard 19inch monitor, I know it is vertical but i am just testing it on the vertical until i hook up the horizontal.  Anyone have a good res for StreetFighter?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 23, 2009, 11:15:52 am
Anyone have a good res for StreetFighter?
392x240
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sosetsuken on June 24, 2009, 01:35:41 pm
Hey SailorSat,  i'm getting my new Cab PC really soon and i'm going with a Radeon 4770 512mb.   Have you had any experience with this card?  I'll probably be running WinXP 32 nLited and HyperSpin FE.  I see most of the 4000 series radeons are supported, I really hope the 4770 is soft15khz capable :)

Cheers.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 24, 2009, 02:01:27 pm
Actually it should work fine.
Don't see a reason why it shouldn't :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on June 24, 2009, 02:10:38 pm
SailorSat,
Thank you very much for the info!!!!  What are people using for their windows desktop res on a 19inch vertical 15k arcade monitor?

Depends. I use 336x240 on my standard res monitor, but could easily go up to 640x240.

Quote
I fooled around with one of the res tools that produces mame ini's, the name is escaping me right now, but things are working better now.

Just mentioning in general: it would be so helpful for everyone to start with Mame32, and look at the ini format after making changes. A lot of things would become obvious.

Quote
How can you tell what res mame is actually using when a game is played?  Is it the res that shows up in the dialouge box right before the game starts?

On a monitor with no OSD, you can't - unless you used Advancemame.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on June 26, 2009, 02:51:39 am
hi sailorcat.

I am using a ati x800XL now with catalist 6.5 and all works fine with soft15khz

but now i want streetfighter 4 to run on the pc. it needs pixel shader 3.0 and some more horsepower

what videocard do you recommend now because i dont know how far you improved soft15khz

so i am looking for the fastest PCI-E passive videocard what is compatable with your latest soft15khz and has alle resolution support for the old arcade games.

thanks in advance

*p.s. Michael Jackson, you made my childhood*
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 26, 2009, 02:56:45 am
I'd recommend any of the Radeon HD 4000 series.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on June 26, 2009, 06:03:26 am
i found a passive

SAPPHIRE TECHNOLOGY Radeon HD 4670 Ultimate Edition - 512 MB DDR3

with vga connector

is it ok?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 26, 2009, 07:03:31 am
I think so.
Just note that the VGA out most likely is NOT the primary output, and once Soft-15kHz is running, it will output on the DVI port (usually theres a DVI-VGA dongle supplied).
Just in case you're getting a black screen after reboot :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on June 26, 2009, 08:09:03 am
ordered one..

now that we are still on the subject, what driver version can i use now?

because first i had to use 6.5. Higher woudnt work you said

any installation tips?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 26, 2009, 09:18:28 am
With a HD 4000, any Catalyst should work. At least I've used 9.2 and 9.4 myself, and they worked fine.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Chunce DeLeone on June 26, 2009, 01:55:54 pm
SailorSat  I am not done with my builds and haven't reached the end of all this troubleshooting BUT I think you have saved me ALLOT of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ :applaud:   
Correction, not saved, allowed me to use the alloted budget for other Arcade related items.   :woot :gobama
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: krick on July 03, 2009, 02:54:03 am

However, my party got cut short when the flyback tranformer in my Hantarex Polo 25 started arcing electricity out the top and I quickly yanked the power plug from the wall.  I don't think it's related to using Soft15KHz, but maybe it was starting to go and running my windows desktop at 800x600 for a few minutes pushed it over the edge.  Who knows.  I'm in the process of ording a new flyback and a cap kit (might as well, since I'll have it apart) and I hope to be back testing within a week or so.

Holy Sh!t... Those moments get the blood pumping.


Well, I got the flyback installed and my monitor is working again. HUZZAH!!!

I've noticed a couple of strange behaviors that I was wondering if you've seen before...

1) When I first set everything up, I was able to select 800x600 and 1024x768 using quickres.  Now, for some reason, when I select either of those resolutions, I get the "keep this resolution" prompt, but nothing actually happens.  The highest I can seem to go with quickres is 640x480.  Strangely, I CAN select those resolutions using display properties and it works.

2) I'm running my windows desktop at 640x288.  When I run command line mame, the built-in mame text "GUI" always comes up in what I think is 800x600 (it might even be 1024x768) and it's completely unreadable.  However, if I blindly start a game by typing pacman and hitting enter, when I exit the game back to the mame GUI, it's at a MUCH lower resolution (I think 640x288).  I plan on using MAMEwah as a front-end, so it's not really an issue, but the behavior really strikes me as odd and I was just curious what is going on.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: pubjoe on July 04, 2009, 10:10:38 am
SailorSat,

First of all, thank you for your wonderful tool.  Soft15khz.

I have a question regarding something I have read you mention several times in the past - Using Soft15khz with newer nvidia cards and a "dongle" to provide a DDC signal (or something like that?).

Is there anywhere you could point me for instructions on this.  Or do you know if I could have one built by soemone for me for a small cost?

I've searched for more information about it.  I'm sure I remember reading something in the past, but I cannot for the life of me find anything now.

Regards,

Joe

P.S:  The main reason for this is to play SFIV on my (15k-24k) arcade monitor (while keeping soft15khz compatibilty for mame).  Does anyone have a nice simple suggestion?  ATI/nvidia card?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Martijn on July 05, 2009, 12:14:16 pm
With a HD 4000, any Catalyst should work. At least I've used 9.2 and 9.4 myself, and they worked fine.

got the card installed with latest (9.7) drivers and soft15khz and it works fine

the display seems better then normal

and best yet. SfIV demo rocks solid on 60fps in 640x480
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 05, 2009, 12:20:35 pm
I have a question regarding something I have read you mention several times in the past - Using Soft15khz with newer nvidia cards and a "dongle" to provide a DDC signal (or something like that?).

Is there anywhere you could point me for instructions on this.  Or do you know if I could have one built by soemone for me for a small cost?
P.S:  The main reason for this is to play SFIV on my (15k-24k) arcade monitor (while keeping soft15khz compatibilty for mame).  Does anyone have a nice simple suggestion?  ATI/nvidia card?
I still have a few dongles from the first batch available. PM me for details.

Any Radeon HD 4000 should be fine for SF4.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: djbubba2002 on July 08, 2009, 12:27:30 pm
i lookin for a new card .. what one should i go with?
i want to run mame to the arcade cabinet and i have the J-pac, i need a card now ..
what is the  best video to go with .. i need PCI ONE
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: john_abey on July 09, 2009, 01:02:56 pm
the last page it was sayed that you do not need a dongle for windows 7 is that true for a 8400 gforce ?

I would like to play future pinball and the arcadevga will not allow me to.

If anyone knows how to play future pinball with arcadevga that would help alot .

If i dont have to switch OS that would be alright
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: djbubba2002 on July 13, 2009, 09:28:24 am
I GOT my new video card today ..does anyone know what driver i should use with this for my arcade t.v.  thanks ..
128 MB Ati Radeon 9200 PCI Video Card VGA DDR

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 13, 2009, 02:39:57 pm
Catalyst 6.5 ( http://files.arianchen.de/drivers/6-5_xp-2k_dd_32464.exe )
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on July 13, 2009, 09:10:58 pm
Catalyst 6.5 ( http://files.arianchen.de/drivers/6-5_xp-2k_dd_32464.exe )

This seems to be the default driver set for cards before R3.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Beretta on July 14, 2009, 06:13:37 pm
ok so i stumble across some weird looking cables, one end has s-vid/composite the other vga connector.

it does'nt look to have any hardware in between.. so it looks like a purely electrical conversion here.

further more the composite has white and red as well should signifies left/right audio usually.

some people report it working others not.. i did'nt even think such a connection was possible.

the question is, what the hell are these cables? is it even possible to get a proper electrical connection with these? if so would soft-15khz work to put out a usable signal?

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.9813
here's one that does'nt have the white/red rca plugs.
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.10281
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4667
similar on other sites like amazon with same mix reviews: http://www.amazon.com/EFORCITY-VGA-S-Video-RCA-Adaptor/dp/B000P3UB24
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: KissMyWookie on July 14, 2009, 06:55:49 pm
ok so i stumble across some weird looking cables, one end has s-vid/composite the other vga connector.

it does'nt look to have any hardware in between.. so it looks like a purely electrical conversion here.

further more the composite has white and red as well should signifies left/right audio usually.

some people report it working others not.. i did'nt even think such a connection was possible.

the question is, what the hell are these cables? is it even possible to get a proper electrical connection with these? if so would soft-15khz work to put out a usable signal?

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.9813
here's one that does'nt have the white/red rca plugs.
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.10281
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4667
similar on other sites like amazon with same mix reviews: http://www.amazon.com/EFORCITY-VGA-S-Video-RCA-Adaptor/dp/B000P3UB24

Those cables are purely adapters (special vga pins to composite/s-video/audio) designed to work only on compatible video cards. Though it would be helpful if the site said what video cards they were compatible with.

Steve
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Beretta on July 14, 2009, 08:53:40 pm
oh what a pitty, i figured it was to good to be true.  :hissy:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 15, 2009, 03:24:33 am
Actually those cables most likely are NOT for video cards, but for video projectors, which use them as input.

The only cards I know that output Composite Video/S-Video on the VGA Port are Matrox G450.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on July 15, 2009, 06:20:53 pm
Actually those cables most likely are NOT for video cards, but for video projectors, which use them as input.

The only cards I know that output Composite Video/S-Video on the VGA Port are Matrox G450.

This makes sense. Although it's possible one might use the cable above, the requirement being to send the right signal.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: xxkodemanxx on July 18, 2009, 10:21:07 pm
hello.

I have these 2 video cards available to put into my Arcade PC and was curious which would be best recommended using your software.
Im playing MAME..also NES SNES and a DREAMCAST emulator.

i also don't have a j-pac. not sure if that is a problem or not.

here are the two cards:

XFX GeForce 8500 GT Graphics adapter - 512 MB - DDR2 SDRAM *my newer one*
and
ATI Radeon X1300 Pro 256MB

both are PCI-e

thanks!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 23, 2009, 05:35:31 am
The 8500GT most likely will need a EDID-Dongle.
I'd go for the x1300.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: djbubba2002 on July 23, 2009, 11:25:30 pm
i think i got mine workin ... thanks for all of the help .. i got one ?

What is install 25khz and 30 khz for ... i only install 15khz on my UMK3 mach... pic is good ... is there a setting for diff games ... like would like to know ... and how can i set up the joystick ..  when i set it up to mame.... then when i set up snes and nes .. then my mame joysticks anit working , like block and run ... i am missing somethign ..

thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 24, 2009, 03:49:41 am
What is install 25khz and 30 khz for ...
Duo/Tripple/Multi-Sync Monitors that support additional resolutions.


and how can i set up the joystick ..  when i set it up to mame.... then when i set up snes and nes .. then my mame joysticks anit working , like block and run ...
That's gettin off-topic :)

Depends on the joystick.
For a Keyboard encoder (I-PAC, J-PAC etc.) you'd most likely open notepad and check if every button is working.
For "GamePad" devices (USB Joystick, A-PAC etc.) you'd open the GameController Config in the window control panel and check it there.

Usually youonly configuure every emulator once to match your joystick.

I think you should open a new topic with details on your setup if you need addition help with the joysticks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: djbubba2002 on July 24, 2009, 09:36:15 am
sorry SailorSat, i was gettin head of my self ....
what do you mean multi-sync?

Monitor
well-G 2k7193 something like that


On my J-pac when i turn it all on .. i have a orange,green and green light on.... is that good ...with no buzzzy sound .. i only here buzzy when the orange light is on .. when the green turns on ... it goes off.. i have three lights on, i just want to know if that is good ?   If not how can i fix it ?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 24, 2009, 11:01:53 am
Your Wells-Gardner most likely is a "Standard Res" monitor so just stay with the 15kHz modes.

There are monitors out there that support two (hence "DualSync") frequencies (15kHz and 25kHz) and even other monitors suport three ("TriSync") frequencies  (15, 25 and 31kHz).

The difference between a TriSync monitor and a real Multisync Monitor is simple.
TriSyncs will support three frequency ranges, 15.5-16.5kHz, 24.5-25.5 kHz and say 31.0-32.0kHz.
MultiSyncs support ONE frequency range from 15.5-31.5kHz including everything in between.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: vet300 on July 28, 2009, 03:50:47 pm
Hi SailorSat,
I'm having issues with soft 15khz on my Nvidia GForce4 Ti4200 card. Have version 93.71 forceware installed.  Works fine on the desktop, but when I go into MAME I get some pulsating distortion only on the bottom half of the screen, and more when the screen is "busy" like with Robotron, or the intro screen to Ms. Pacman.  When I bring up Ms. Pacman, I get the distortion bowing to the right at the bottom of the screen, and it's pulsitile like it's going along with the scanlines, but when I start the game, the board is fine, all is normal.  I get similar effect when I pull up the test grid for Soft 15khz.  The first block grid is almost normal with slight bowing at the bottom, but the second grid with the circles has the pulsitile bowing when I bring it up.  I have 2 other computers, one with an Arcade VGA card, the other with an ATI Radeon card and soft 15Khz, and both work fine with no problems, so it can't be the monitor.
Do you think the drivers are too new for this card or what? 
Thanks for your time,
Sean
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 28, 2009, 04:43:08 pm
Phew... Guess I need a new glass orb after all :D

Well as it seems to basically work in the first place I'm pretty clueless what causes the problem.

For reference a photo would be nice, but most likely I can't help you with that issue without having that card on my desk, and shipin it here would be more expensive than looking for another card.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: KissMyWookie on July 31, 2009, 01:44:27 pm
I've finally got some good news for ATI users of Soft-15KHz...

When I switched from an nVidia card to an ATI Radeon HD 4550, I found that the "perfect" 320x224@59.185... Neo-Geo mode was no longer perfect. It had bars top and bottom, whereas on my old GeForce 6800GT it filled the entire screen.

I suspected a driver problem, so spent about 35+ hours trying to get AdvanceMame's video mode tool (ADVV) working under Linux - only to find out (by reading the source code) that note of the ATI Radeon HD's are supported by the Linux console frame buffer driver (radeonfb). What a waste of time!

After that disappointment, I tried tweaking the modelines file > reinstalling them with Soft-15KHz > rebooting > testing the mode.  This was performed about 20 times, adjusting the "vertical total lines"by 1 row at a time and seeing no change, until at one point the picture height jumped and suddenly it was too tall.

By experimenting, I'd found that the ATI Catalyst driver v9.6 (and below) was rounding-up the modeline's "vertical lines total" to the next value divisible-by-8. From what I had read, this was incorrect and rounding-to-8 should only be done on the horizontal width and horizontal total. So, I reported my findings to ATI/AMD around 2 weeks ago.

This morning I installed the latest Catalyst v9.7 driver and had my fingers crossed. There was no mention of that particular bug being fixed in the release notes, but after reinstalling the Soft-15KHz modes and rebooting, I found that my Neo-Geo mode was working correctly! (All I had to do was shift it horizontally a few pixels, so that it lined up correctly with the default 320x240 mode).

I'm really pleased about this and just wanted to share the good news  :applaud:

Steve
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: alui on August 01, 2009, 03:00:21 pm
What 320x224@59.185 modeline are you using that's working with the new 9.7 driver?  I think I might have the same problem as you ...

Thanks.

I've finally got some good news for ATI users of Soft-15KHz...

When I switched from an nVidia card to an ATI Radeon HD 4550, I found that the "perfect" 320x224@59.185... Neo-Geo mode was no longer perfect. It had bars top and bottom, whereas on my old GeForce 6800GT it filled the entire screen.

I suspected a driver problem, so spent about 35+ hours trying to get AdvanceMame's video mode tool (ADVV) working under Linux - only to find out (by reading the source code) that note of the ATI Radeon HD's are supported by the Linux console frame buffer driver (radeonfb). What a waste of time!

After that disappointment, I tried tweaking the modelines file > reinstalling them with Soft-15KHz > rebooting > testing the mode.  This was performed about 20 times, adjusting the "vertical total lines"by 1 row at a time and seeing no change, until at one point the picture height jumped and suddenly it was too tall.

By experimenting, I'd found that the ATI Catalyst driver v9.6 (and below) was rounding-up the modeline's "vertical lines total" to the next value divisible-by-8. From what I had read, this was incorrect and rounding-to-8 should only be done on the horizontal width and horizontal total. So, I reported my findings to ATI/AMD around 2 weeks ago.

This morning I installed the latest Catalyst v9.7 driver and had my fingers crossed. There was no mention of that particular bug being fixed in the release notes, but after reinstalling the Soft-15KHz modes and rebooting, I found that my Neo-Geo mode was working correctly! (All I had to do was shift it horizontally a few pixels, so that it lined up correctly with the default 320x240 mode).

I'm really pleased about this and just wanted to share the good news  :applaud:

Steve

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: KissMyWookie on August 01, 2009, 06:45:53 pm
What 320x224@59.185 modeline are you using that's working with the new 9.7 driver?  I think I might have the same problem as you ...

Thanks.
Soft-15KHz does not have a 320x224 modeline by default - I made my own and added it to my custom user modes.

This one lined up precisely with SailorSat's 320x240 mode, using my old nVidia 6800GT card:
Code: [Select]
Modeline "320x224_NeoGeo (59.185606Hz)" 6.1231 320 344 392 424 224 225 227 244 -hsync -vsync
Under Catalyst 9.7 and my new Radeon HD 4550, I had to shift it to the right a bit to line up better:
Code: [Select]
Modeline "320x224_NeoGeo (59.185606Hz)" 6.1231 320 351 399 424 224 225 227 244 -hsync -vsync
With the ATI card output, it looks a couple of pixel rows taller than it did on the nVidia card, so I might fix that some time, but I'm happy with it for now.

Steve

PS: You might have to force MAME to use that resolution - which is easy under MAMEUI. In the "Screen" tab, set Screen to "\\.\DISPLAY1" or "\\.\DISPLAY2" (there's a bug that -on my computer- only shows some of the resolutions under one and more resolutions under the other). Then set Resolution Size to "320x224".
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: KissMyWookie on August 04, 2009, 02:43:27 am
SailorSat - I've found something interesting... not sure if it only applies to Catalyst 9.7 drivers or before.

I have a Radeon HD 4550 card running the latest Catalyst 9.7 drivers on Windows XP 32-bit.
Tonight I realized that I can open my usermodes.txt file and make changes, then open Soft15KHz->"Uninstall"->"Install User"->Close Soft15KHz. Then when I open a game (with the mode I made changes to) in MameUI, the resolution/timings I see are the ones I just installed (without rebooting)

I'm not sure if it's me, but it didn't seem to work 100% of the time. One important thing seems to be closing Soft15KHz after uninstalling->installing user modes.

This is going to save me a hell of a lot of time tweaking modes, as hopefully I won't have to reboot nearly as much. It could also make it a lot easier for you, if you wanted to add a mode adjusting feature to Soft15KHz at some time in the future.

On another point, something I have noticed that may cause driver problems, is that Soft15KHz restores the old registry backup if the graphics card drivers are updated - I found this because the information panel was saying that "Display 0" had Catalyst 9.6 drivers, while "Display 1" said the correct 9.7. Fortunately, with the ATI drivers, if I delete the entire registry key and reboot, the driver will recreate a new set of defaults in the registry - which is easier than removing and reinstalling the drivers if something gets screwed up.

Also, I've been meaning to ask how your program handles white-space or commenting in the user files. (ie: "#" or "//"  single line comments, or  "/*" and "*/" C style block commenting.) Can I put a comment after a modeline instead of at the beginning of a line?

One last thing, how many decimal places should I put for pixel-clock MHz rates? I'm sure there must be a limit, but didn't see it listed anywhere.

Steve  :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 04, 2009, 08:07:40 am
SailorSat - I've found something interesting... not sure if it only applies to Catalyst 9.7 drivers or before.
Tonight I realized that I can open my usermodes.txt file and make changes, then open Soft15KHz->"Uninstall"->"Install User"->Close Soft15KHz. Then when I open a game (with the mode I made changes to) in MameUI, the resolution/timings I see are the ones I just installed (without rebooting)

There actually has to be a way to "force" reloading of the resolutions in a more "global" way.
Though in your case that really should save some time.



On another point, something I have noticed that may cause driver problems, is that Soft15KHz restores the old registry backup if the graphics card drivers are updated

You shouldn't update the drivers while Soft-15kHz is installed as new drivers may also change some values that could force your card back into 31kHz mode.



Also, I've been meaning to ask how your program handles white-space or commenting in the user files

Actually it doesn't... I only check each line for the first parameter being "modeline" or "remove".
You should be able to write comments behind each line, but have at least one "space" before starting your comments.


One last thing, how many decimal places should I put for pixel-clock MHz rates?

Theoretically theres no limit as in most calculations I use "Single" precision values which is most likely more than we need.

However the limit is driver sides:

- 3Dfx, ATI and NVidia use steps of 10kHz so 0.01 would be your lowest possible value.

- Matrox and Intel drivers (both EGD and GMA) use steps of 1kHz allowing for 0.001 values.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 04, 2009, 10:10:17 pm

On another point, something I have noticed that may cause driver problems, is that Soft15KHz restores the old registry backup if the graphics card drivers are updated - I found this because the information panel was saying that "Display 0" had Catalyst 9.6 drivers, while "Display 1" said the correct 9.7. Fortunately, with the ATI drivers, if I delete the entire registry key and reboot, the driver will recreate a new set of defaults in the registry...

Yeah, I've run into trouble with that and now habitually delete those files.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: krick on August 04, 2009, 10:17:04 pm

Fortunately, with the ATI drivers, if I delete the entire registry key and reboot, the driver will recreate a new set of defaults in the registry - which is easier than removing and reinstalling the drivers if something gets screwed up.



What key would that be?  I think that would be useful to have in my arsenal.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 06, 2009, 05:33:30 pm

Fortunately, with the ATI drivers, if I delete the entire registry key and reboot, the driver will recreate a new set of defaults in the registry - which is easier than removing and reinstalling the drivers if something gets screwed up.



What key would that be?  I think that would be useful to have in my arsenal.

They're the little 'key' files that are created in the soft15 folder.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: KissMyWookie on August 07, 2009, 12:07:37 am

Fortunately, with the ATI drivers, if I delete the entire registry key and reboot, the driver will recreate a new set of defaults in the registry - which is easier than removing and reinstalling the drivers if something gets screwed up.



What key would that be?  I think that would be useful to have in my arsenal.

They're the little 'key' files that are created in the soft15 folder.

They're just backups from the registry.

The actual registry key locations can be found in those files though. The newer Catalyst drivers store their settings under like HKLM\system\CurrentControlSet\Services\ati2mtag.

Don't go messing around with the registry unless you know what you're doing though - or can recover from a recent backup - as it's easy to make your system non-bootable.

Steve

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: KissMyWookie on August 07, 2009, 12:29:17 am
SailorSat - I've found a bug in Soft-15kHz that makes it crash on starting, if I have certain comments in my UserModes.txt file.

If I have the following anwhere in my UserModes.txt file, Soft-15kHz crashes as the program is launched:
# The mode's settings were ... blah blah blah

I tracked it down from a bunch of comments and it has something to do with the single quote (apostrophe) - either by itself or possibly with the letters around it.

The error is:
Run-time error '5':
Invalid procedure call or argument

I know you could say "don't use comments in the file", but with the size that my UserModes file is getting, it would be really useful to be able to put comments in it.

Steve
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 07, 2009, 06:29:00 am
I think I know why the crash happens.
Try placing a SECOND ' in the comment line.

Guess I should rewrite that routines anyway :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: KissMyWookie on August 07, 2009, 03:46:54 pm
I think I know why the crash happens.
Try placing a SECOND ' in the comment line.

Guess I should rewrite that routines anyway :)

Thank you.
Much appreciated!  ;D

PS: The second apostrophe allowed Soft-15kHz to process the UserModes.txt file and start properly.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 08, 2009, 07:47:59 pm
Advancemame rc files can get pretty extensive, too. Not all the same stuff, but parts, like mode and clock data for various games, can be so I just space sections out. Also, I use wordpad, which automatically goes full screen on open every time, and you can actually use the scroll wheel-drag thing. Notepad is fine for small stuff, but a pain in the ass, otherwise.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Mickelonis on August 09, 2009, 12:55:41 am
New to this, so forgive me if this is a dumb question..

Does Soft 15hz work on Vista 64, or Xp 64?


Thanks!

-Pete
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 09, 2009, 07:34:03 am
XP 64 works fine.
Vista 64 doesn't work.
Seven 64 should work.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: mopnkezza on August 10, 2009, 03:03:11 am
Hey guys, some cool stuff going on round here. Just finished our first mame cabinet with a nice phillips tube rom a metz and it's all working pretty nice with a vga->scart cable ect.
We just have one problem that we can't figure out.
Games like sf2 seem to pick the 392x240 res which works fine i switched in windows (nvidia taskbar icon),
but when mame switches to that res by itself, there si wierd sync artifacts on the screen.
We took a video to demonstrate.

First you can see us switch to 392x240 with nvidia taskbar icon, which looks fine
Then in mame, the screen is corrupted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORghUH8nMjg

Can anyone explain this???
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 10, 2009, 06:24:43 pm
Then in mame, the screen is corrupted.

What does it look like in-game vs that menu?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: mopnkezza on August 10, 2009, 07:27:42 pm
Quote
What does it look like in-game vs that menu?

All games at 392x240 via mame have that screen corruption in-game.

If I turn switchres off and set the desktop to 392x240 though they work fine.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 12, 2009, 05:13:23 pm
Mmm. Just being sure. Well, it comes to mind that the game itself may 'force' slightly different behavior from the mode. ?  What version of mame are you using?  And if after the re-write, are you using 'refreshspeed'?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: mopnkezza on August 12, 2009, 09:23:06 pm

Playing with it a bit more, I've noticed than with some games the screen returns to normal in-game.

Using mame 0.133. I haven't tried the refresh speed option. is it enabled by default? Will check when I get back to the cabinet and see if it effects anything.

cheers

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: candycabguy on August 16, 2009, 12:17:49 pm
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=95350.msg1003783

ANY soft15 help here MOST appreciated!:)

Lee
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: candycabguy on August 16, 2009, 02:14:42 pm
seems I need a dongle for my 8400 GS Nvidia, where are they available?  Link?  How much?  Am I better off getting a new card?  Thanks!

Lee
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 16, 2009, 02:23:14 pm
Get a new card.
Go for a Radeon HD 4350 or something like that.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 16, 2009, 07:50:33 pm
Get a new card.
Go for a Radeon HD 4350 or something like that.

Fnord. (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=95350.msg1003786#msg1003786)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Epyx on August 17, 2009, 05:09:36 pm
Contemplating going with Soft15khz for a future build (I currently have the ArcadeVGA2 in another).

QUESTION:

What would be the fastest (in terms of 3d) card that is still the most compatible with 15khz modes? ATI 4670?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 17, 2009, 07:23:13 pm
Currently should be the ATI Radeon HD 4890 (or whatever is the top model in the HD 4000 series)

But currently I don't think anyone has tested such a monster :D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Epyx on August 17, 2009, 07:24:13 pm
Awesome, thanks Sailorsat. Good to know there are still some options that can do both (3d and 15khz).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: mopnkezza on August 17, 2009, 10:01:25 pm
Ok recompiled mame with the cabmame diff and the screen corruption is gone. The only thing is there is alot of overscan in most games but the adjustments need to be made though a service menu with the remote which I can't get into because the blue button on the universal remote I'm using dosne't work.

Can overscan be adjusted with custom modelines?
Also, can the 'advanced timings' function in the nvidia control panel be used to add custom timings without affecting soft15Khz or should it be done with custom15k.txt ?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 17, 2009, 10:50:58 pm
You can't adjust the overscan modeline wise without corrupting the timings.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Brenry on August 18, 2009, 04:33:43 pm
Is there another site that has a faq on how to tweak this?  I just skimmed 40 some pages and all I see is people bragging about their video card.  Only two references to the custom15 and usermode.txt file is what I am interested in.  The ones mentioned are for multisync monitors.

What do I need to do?  Last year when I ran a arcadevga on my cabinet i had no issues running 800x600 or below resses.  I dont like that card because it's a hassle and underpowered.  Trying to get my nvidia 9800 gtx to work on a connected to a j-pac and WG 7000, and I see mention of a dongle but do I really need that?  I can get signal from lower resolutions, just not all in sync.  If I leave mame in ddraw so it can pick its own resses, it will often shrink the image (what bitmap scaling should I be using?), zigzag images, or a black screen.

Currently if I do 320x240 or 640x240 it displays fine... and garbage up to 720x480 which will display split sreen.  Do I have to create a usermode.txt file or am I supposed to buy a dongle.  Also I saw mention of people using powerstrip to tweak.  Is that in a faq somewhere?  I'm not ready to put this computer in my cab yet as it's my only one, but I figure the pstrip is what my problem is now ?

thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 18, 2009, 05:02:36 pm
Well...
Most likely you can't sync the lower resolutions, because they don't get output in 15kHz.
PowerStrip will not work with lower resolutions because the window is too big.

I haven't tried a 9800 yet but most likely you need the dongle.

What OS are you running?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Brenry on August 18, 2009, 06:13:38 pm
64bit win7. using soft15hkz opens up all the resolutions and displays them all on my crt and lcd, thats why I was asking about the usermode txt file as there is no help file on how to map resolutions and stuff.

on my jpac I have it as default on 15 and 31 jumper.  should i remove the 31 ?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 18, 2009, 06:19:56 pm
You don't need to map anything.
Consider Windows Seven support as experimental.

If you can see an image on normal VGA CRTs and LCDs then you card outputs 31kHz which your Arcade screen cannot display correctly.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Brenry on August 18, 2009, 08:30:14 pm
Eventually I know I need to replace this monitor anyway as it has some discoloration and degaus problems I can't get rid of.  These multi sync monitors people use, does that display the bios and on screens fine?  The way I understand it is with the wg 9200 or the ones with the vga connector, soft15khz just unlocks the lower resolutions for older games?  If that's the case why do some people use avga cards with multisync monitors?

I tried your mamecab too and that was awesome, it removed alot of crummy artifacts like from killer instinct words.  I see alot of people praise the audio hack.  Is my system too slow?  It's dual core clocked at 3ghz but i'm used to using 64 bit mame builds which people rate as 25% higher performance on mame so that may be the prob since this is a 32 bit app
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: krick on August 19, 2009, 11:48:38 pm

on my jpac I have it as default on 15 and 31 jumper.  should i remove the 31 ?


Does your monitor actually support 31KHz?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: candycabguy on August 20, 2009, 03:22:13 pm
Trying to select a compatible card for my machine, the motherboard of which does NOT like PCI-E 2.0, can only get stable performance from a 1.0 card.

SO with that in mind, what are the criteria for cards that will require a dongle to be compatible w/soft 15.

This machine, a P4 3.2Ghz, 4 G RAM, Wind XP 32, will solely be used as a MAME machine.

What card should i go with?  Have my eye on a GeForce 7200 series, will it work w/o a dongle? 

Thanks in advance!

Lee
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: krick on August 20, 2009, 03:41:14 pm
Trying to select a compatible card for my machine, the motherboard of which does NOT like PCI-E 2.0, can only get stable performance from a 1.0 card.

This machine, a P4 3.2Ghz, 4 G RAM, Wind XP 32, will solely be used as a MAME machine.



The P4 architecture is pretty bad.  Personally, I'd pick up a cheap mobo/cpu/memory combo as the basis of a new MAME machine.  This will give you much more flexibility with your video card choices as well.

Even though the motherboard below has VERY limited overclocking abilities, I was able to easily overclock it to 3.5GHz using the stock cooler and only a few changes to the BIOS settings.  The biggest problem is the limited memory ratio settings, so you have to buy faster memory and run on the lowest ratio for good overclocking results.  Not bad for $180...

$55 - ASUS P5KPL-CM LGA 775 Intel G31 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131288

$64 - Intel Pentium E5200 Wolfdale 2.5GHz 2MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116072

$60 - G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-8500CL5D-4GBPK - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231166
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: barryabrams on August 25, 2009, 09:57:27 am
How do I get Soft 15khz working with an Intel GMA 945?

I have the default drivers. Do I need to install something else first? I can open Soft 15khz, and I have the option between two cards. It's a laptop, so I'm guessing one is the laptop screen, and the other is the video out. I can click on the install buttons for 15khz, 24khz, & 31khz and it appears that they get installed, but I don't know what to do next. In display preferences, nothing has changed.

Can someone walk me through setting this program up?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 25, 2009, 10:39:48 am
First, Intel drivers are limited to 5 custom modes.
Second, the default GMA drivers suck :)

Most likely it won't work with lowres modes.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: barryabrams on August 25, 2009, 12:45:22 pm
Quote
First, Intel drivers are limited to 5 custom modes.
Second, the default GMA drivers suck

Most likely it won't work with lowres modes.

Ok. Is there anything I can do? Can I replace the drivers with something else? I only need it to be 336 x 240 or 512 x 288 (I have a medium resolution monitor that can go down to standard). I don't need to switch resolutions.

I mean, maybe I don't understand how Soft 15khz works. After I install it, what do i do? Do I go to display preferences or is there another place?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 25, 2009, 01:15:01 pm
You need to use QuickRes to select resolutions below 800x600.
You could try the IEGD driver, however this is a pretty advanced topic.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: barryabrams on August 25, 2009, 01:32:28 pm
Alright. I'll try using quickres.

I tried using IEGD, but couldn't figure out how to generate the correct driver. I ended up locking myself out of windows and had to do a fresh install. Not fun. Are there any tutorials for using IEGD, or is there any way someone could make a driver for me?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: barryabrams on August 25, 2009, 01:56:40 pm
Nope. Quickres doesn't work. I can see that more resolutions get added to the list in quickres, but they're all for the primary screen - not the external one I'm trying to use.

Its looking more and more like I'll just need to pony up and buy a new computer with an ArcadeVGA. It doesn't seem like that has too many issues.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 25, 2009, 02:00:47 pm
A standalone computer should be the better choice.
Soft-15kHz simply doesn't work good with Intel GMA.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 26, 2009, 08:40:51 pm
A standalone computer should be the better choice.
Soft-15kHz simply doesn't work good with Intel GMA.

Rather, as you first mentioned, the reverse. I got gobbledy-gook when I tried it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sky Zero on August 28, 2009, 03:55:42 pm
Been at this for a couple of days and I could use some help. I have a stock Super Neo Candy Cab 29" that I've been running with Puzzle Fighter for a few years. Now I'm trying to use it with a PC I had laying around. Got a J-Pac and running with an Nvidia 7950GT card with the 190.62 drivers. Any idea what resolution I should be using for this cab?

I've installed Soft-15khz and Quickres. Tried settings all the way down to 640x480@60, with the J-Pac set to default 15khz with jumpers on 15 and 31. I get the split-screen action on boot-up but as soon as the Windows XP loading screen comes up it goes screwy and the LED on the sync-ok goes out. I can go lower using quickres but my computer monitor won't display at a lower res so I'm not sure if it'll keep the setting when I reboot.

Tried googling the info but haven't been able to find an answer. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

EDIT: Did some testing and it seems I can go up to 720x480@60, does this sound right for this cab or should I be able to go higher? Windows shakes a tiny bit but Street Fighter IV looks fine when running the benchmark.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 28, 2009, 05:13:38 pm
What operation system?

Most likely you have a too new driver installed. Try a older one.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sky Zero on August 28, 2009, 06:06:01 pm
My OS is XP SP3. I'll try out an older driver when I get a chance. Thanks for the tip!

Any thoughts as to how high I should be able to go on this cab? All I can find are refresh rates for it being 15/24 when I try to look up any specs on it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on August 28, 2009, 08:18:21 pm
Any thoughts as to how high I should be able to go on this cab? All I can find are refresh rates for it being 15/24 when I try to look up any specs on it.

You need to read the monitor wiki - cos those are not refresh but scan rates - then you'll know what your monitor can do.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sky Zero on August 30, 2009, 02:42:36 am
Thanks for the tip! Downgraded to an earlier driver and it works solid now with 720x480@60. Before with the newer driver, after restarting it wouldn't work till I switched the resolution back and forth with quickres.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tisurame on September 01, 2009, 12:07:08 am
First, Intel drivers are limited to 5 custom modes.
Second, the default GMA drivers suck :)

Most likely it won't work with lowres modes.

Do you have any idea of how this could be tested, just to make sure?

I know it's limited to 5 custom modes, but if I want to include only 3 custom modes  (256x240, 321x240, 640x240 / 15khz), how this could be done? What configuration need to be added inside usermode.txt ?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 01, 2009, 01:16:02 am
I know it's limited to 5 custom modes, but if I want to include only 3 custom modes  (256x240, 321x240, 640x240 / 15khz), how this could be done? What configuration need to be added inside usermode.txt ?

Code: [Select]
modeline '256x240' 5.3 256 272 296 336 240 244 247 261 -hsync -vsync
modeline '320x240' 6.45 320 336 368 414 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '321x240' 6.45 321 336 368 414 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x240' 13.22 640 672 736 832 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync

we should try 320x240 and 321x240 at the same time.
If 320x240 works, simply drop 321x240, if now dropt drop the other one :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gatordad on September 01, 2009, 03:36:07 pm
Salior I read thru all of the pages here, have you seen any custom modelines for a nvidia 6800 like which to remove and which to add. I ran a few games and had resolution issues with wrap and fuzzy text, some looked fantastic but I had enough games running with visual issues that I temp uninstalled soft 15.
I also need to add 600 by 800 for all of my computer games. I have a WG d9800 digital tri sync.
I am good at following instructions but they need to be in english ;)
Thanks for any help
GD
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 01, 2009, 03:40:30 pm
Any examples?

800x600 is a standard resolution and should be available by default.
As for your TriSync. Just install 15+25+31khz and you should be fine.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gatordad on September 01, 2009, 03:47:22 pm
Any examples?

800x600 is a standard resolution and should be available by default.
As for your TriSync. Just install 15+25+31khz and you should be fine.
I will follow up later this evening when I am in front of the cab to give accurate info,
Thanks
GD
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gatordad on September 01, 2009, 08:55:19 pm
OK here are the resolutions that have issues
304x224
256x224
320x240
320x224
400x254
200x200

Some resolutions look like there is image wrap around at the top of the screen, I don't know what the correct term is is it overscan?
also
When soft 15 is installed and I switch my desktop res to 600x800 it does not look right, It is compressed horizontially, what up with that.
any help is apprieciated
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 02, 2009, 03:31:44 am
OK here are the resolutions that have issues
304x224
256x224
320x240
320x224
400x254
200x200

Some resolutions look like there is image wrap around at the top of the screen, I don't know what the correct term is is it overscan?
also
When soft 15 is installed and I switch my desktop res to 600x800 it does not look right, It is compressed horizontially, what up with that.
any help is apprieciated

Did you not notice you said '600x800', and that SS said '800x600'?

You're running your monitor in horizontal orientation, right?

Also, the stock set mirrors the AVGA, and Andy explains on his site why 256x224, or any x224 line, isn't used.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on September 02, 2009, 03:52:01 am
Currently should be the ATI Radeon HD 4890 (or whatever is the top model in the HD 4000 series)

But currently I don't think anyone has tested such a monster :D
Maybe I can test it, but can I get also lower resolutions to work? Which driver version is best to use?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 02, 2009, 04:45:20 am
Maybe I can test it, but can I get also lower resolutions to work? Which driver version is best to use?

You should be able get lower resolutions.
As for the driver. I've used various 9.x catalysts without problems.



OK here are the resolutions that have issues
304x224
256x224
320x240
320x224
400x254
200x200

Some resolutions look like there is image wrap around at the top of the screen, I don't know what the correct term is is it overscan?
also
When soft 15 is installed and I switch my desktop res to 600x800 it does not look right, It is compressed horizontially, what up with that.
any help is apprieciated

Have you tried the monitor controls to fix those issues?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gatordad on September 02, 2009, 10:40:10 am

I must be doing something wrong here

Let's start from the beginning
I selected 15 hit install than 25 install than 31 install
changed my destop res to 640 x480 restarted
I turned off use additional artwork
I turned on switch res

anything else?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 06, 2009, 01:03:35 am
SS, it seems you may've missed this in another thread. Response?


What AdvanceMAME does is either enlarging the "sync pulse" or reducing the total visible lines per frame (262) by increasing the vertical refresh (60Hz).

If I would add a 224 line mode to my VGA card, it would be exactly the same modeline, except the "active" lines would be reduced from 240 to 224 (-16) and the front and back porch would be increased by 8 lines each.

You don't have to increase the vertical refresh rate to reduce the total number of lines - by adjusting the pixel clock, you can bring the refresh rate back to 60Hz (or whatever you wish) and still have less total lines (and the vertical front and back porch don't have to pad the total number of lines to 262). If you do this, the visible lines take up more height on the display - which is how I made my 320x224x59.185606Hz modeline.

I doubt that an arcade CGA monitor would be able to sync to such a modeline, but it works well on a multisync monitor.

Steve
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 06, 2009, 06:45:20 am
Looks like I did, however I won't comment that :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gatordad on September 07, 2009, 09:52:59 am

I must be doing something wrong here

Let's start from the beginning
I selected 15 hit install than 25 install than 31 install
changed my destop res to 640 x480 restarted
I turned off use additional artwork
I turned on switch res

anything else?


This thread is killer to read it's just too long

ok I read a bunch more

I also have now turned on Direct Draw
Turned off Video Stretch

Question
is the resolution generator tool avres from ultimarc site a necessary step to run, before using soft 15
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gatordad on September 08, 2009, 02:44:19 pm
I take it no answer means
read more.... I said it before?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 08, 2009, 02:56:01 pm
It is NOT needed "per default.
But some Games change resolution on the fly, like pretty much every PSX based one.

PSX default would be 640x480, so most likely MAME will use that resolution and you'll get black borders ingame.

That problem doesn't happen if you use CabMAME or you use the said tool.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gatordad on September 08, 2009, 05:27:02 pm
It is NOT needed "per default.
But some Games change resolution on the fly, like pretty much every PSX based one.

PSX default would be 640x480, so most likely MAME will use that resolution and you'll get black borders ingame.

That problem doesn't happen if you use CabMAME or you use the said tool.

Thanks much
I will report soon after I try some of these things out



When did you start cabmame builds?
I did not see an archive with older builds
Currently I have rom set for 114
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 08, 2009, 10:56:35 pm
Looks like I did, however I won't comment that :)

Where?

reference: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=66402.msg1011092#msg1011092
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gatordad on September 10, 2009, 11:36:21 am
Ok I had great success last night I ran avga tool and bingo almost everything looks great.
I had to tweak several resolutions with my monitor adjustments but all in all it looks good to go.

I did have a couple of questions

1st,
Since my monitor is a quad sync cga, ega, vga and svga what would you suggest I use for a non interlaced 800 x 600p desktop res for my other computer related games currently 800x600 is flickering so I'm guessing every resolution is interlaced correct?

2nd
I only tried one vector game tempest and it was not centered at all and no amount of adjustment would help, should I manually adjust the games ini to reflect 800x 600 or is there another res that works well

3rd
For Missle command, track and field, and hypersports I had to compress the vertical monitor adjustment down to a point where it almost looks like a wide screen image if I left it open to full screen I had image wrap or tearing at the top of my image which resembled a sanyo when they develop vertical foldover, image is wrapped ontop of itself.

Thanks much salior this is awesome now that I have made progress, I feel great cause this was on my to do list for the last year, I was running everything at 800x600 but that kind of defeats the purpose of spending all that cash on a nice multisync monitor doesn't it?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Epyx on September 10, 2009, 11:39:11 am
Have you tried the Tri-Sync utility on the Ultimarc website? This gave me flicker free SVGA modes.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gatordad on September 11, 2009, 02:00:28 pm
Have you tried the Tri-Sync utility on the Ultimarc website? This gave me flicker free SVGA modes.

You know I downloaded that a few days ago but got distracted and never installed it. I will give the tri sync utility a try this weekend

Last night I was messing with the ini for tempest and could not get it vertically certered on the screen with any monitor adjustment, I only see the top 2/3 of the game
Could someone post what your ini look like for tempest so I have a starting point to work from.
Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Epyx on September 11, 2009, 04:20:35 pm
Tempest, as a vector game, is probably a game you want to play at a higher resolution and turn increase the beam intensity and width (going off of memory here). I think I play mine at 640x480.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tisurame on September 11, 2009, 04:50:31 pm
I know it's limited to 5 custom modes, but if I want to include only 3 custom modes  (256x240, 321x240, 640x240 / 15khz), how this could be done? What configuration need to be added inside usermode.txt ?

Code: [Select]
modeline '256x240' 5.3 256 272 296 336 240 244 247 261 -hsync -vsync
modeline '320x240' 6.45 320 336 368 414 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '321x240' 6.45 321 336 368 414 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x240' 13.22 640 672 736 832 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync

we should try 320x240 and 321x240 at the same time.
If 320x240 works, simply drop 321x240, if now dropt drop the other one :)


It's not working. But to tell the true I'm not sure if "usermode.txt" is exactly the name of the file that needs to be included inside soft15khz directory - in that case, which is the right name for the .txt file?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 11, 2009, 08:25:00 pm
its usermodes.txt
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 11, 2009, 11:07:35 pm
[You know I downloaded that a few days ago but got distracted and never installed it. I will give the tri sync utility a try this weekend

Last night I was messing with the ini for tempest and could not get it vertically certered on the screen with any monitor adjustment, I only see the top 2/3 of the game
Could someone post what your ini look like for tempest so I have a starting point to work from.
Thanks

That utility is only for AVGAs. If you're getting flicker, I'm betting the farm that it's because you didn't load in 31khz modes, or custom 31khz modes.

As for vector games, run the highest res you can - or at least 640x480.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tisurame on September 12, 2009, 10:13:51 pm
its usermodes.txt

Thanks. But with the default driver it doesnt seen to make any change on the available display resolutions. So, I think it's really not working.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on September 17, 2009, 01:16:19 pm
Hey SailorSat, have you seen this new NVIDIA control panel?  Just curious if this can be used for 15khz resolutions.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=96344.0
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 17, 2009, 02:55:14 pm
Actually this is in the forceware since months.
And it won't let you add everything.

To add some resolutions, you have to test them, and most of the time, lowres modes won't be even "tested", they just fail.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on September 18, 2009, 12:24:50 am
To add some resolutions, you have to test them, and most of the time, lowres modes won't be even "tested", they just fail.

Sounds like AdvanceMAME, at the end of configuration in advcfg. I almost always skip testing any modes, cos the configuraton screen loaded so obviously something works, and sure enough games load just fine at their respective resolutions. There was once that, on some whim, I tested a mode in advcfg - and it loaded!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Antropus on September 30, 2009, 01:53:05 pm
SailorSat,

what an amazing job my friend! I don't post much over these forums but I'm always watching the discussions. I had an arcadeVGA2 installed in my machine and was working great, till I decided to play some more 3D intense games and it choked. I upgraded my whole machine now to an i7 920 overclocked to 4Ghz, 6GB RAM and an Radeon HD 4890 so I can play much more advanced emulated games. I was concerned that the soft 15Khz would give me some sort of "pseudo-resolution" that would not look like what I was getting with my arcadeVGA2. The fact is: it looks JUST THE SAME! Every game I've tried look like the real deal, with perfect resolution/scanlines on my Betson Multisync. All resolutions I've tried look perfect and now I've a GREAT advantage: I can play ANYTHING on my machine because my new hardware can take it! Also, much more custom modes are available now, making possible for me to play in native resolution some games I was playing in 640x480 before and boy, what a difference it made! So, I'm just stopping by to say THANK YOU very much for this tool and your hard work. I'll make sure to stop by and make my donation to your project soon.

Cheers,
-Kris
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: BadMojo12 on October 01, 2009, 01:25:22 am
Hi all:  Posting occasionally on the forum has led to great results and I'm hoping this won't be the exception.  I scored a Sony PVM 2530 presentation monitor and have been running it with mame/gameex in S-video mode and it looks great.  Can someone recommend if its worth it to make a VGA cable to run mame?  Consensus seems to be yes, but I am not clear on what's required; must I (should I) use ArcadeVGA?  Soft-15KHz?  Just Advancemame? Can I still play PC games as I have my cab set up for SFIV?

My S-video 2530 looks as good as  my Mits with component in; if I can't find an easy way to use VGA in arcade mode then the switch will not be worth it; someone please let me know.....

BadMojo
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: PimpDaddyStu on October 01, 2009, 06:30:50 am
Been playing about with this for a few days I think I'm finally getting somewhere, I've tried 2 ATI cards and HD4850 and the latest ArcadeVGA but Catalyst 9.8 installed instead of Andy's driver... this may seem pointless but the latest Catalyst will get Street Fighter IV running at a playable 47fps whereas Andy's driver struggles to get over 25fps

Anyhow I didn't have much luck with either ATI card after installing all 3 modes in Soft-15k for my PoloStar Multisync I ended up with only:
640x480
800x600
1024x768

Which I find a bit odd as using Andy's driver and the ArcadeVGA yields all the resolutions

I then decided to test my 8800GT and 8600GTS using the latest NVidia drivers 190.62 which are both giving much better results
I've now got all resolutions down to 304x240, there are 5 which don't work correctly
304x240
352x288
384x288
512x288
512x448

but I'm not really bothered about them

What I'm bothered about is why I can't get any of the 2??x2?? resolutions to appear
I've checked my ini's and there are almost 1100 games that Avres has set to use 256x240 so I'd really like to get this resolution back somehow

I should say I'm running Vista x64, which I know is not recommended so maybe this is the problem?

Thanks
Stu
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 01, 2009, 06:50:11 am
Try an older Catalyst like 9.4
And... What OS?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: PimpDaddyStu on October 01, 2009, 07:33:18 am
I quickly tried 9.2 last night but after the driver installed and rebooted it complained that it could find my ATI card or it wasn't functioning properly.

I'll give it another bash tonight and try 9.4 instead

I'm running Vista x64... could this be the problem?

Stu
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: PimpDaddyStu on October 01, 2009, 07:54:54 am
I just tried my 8800GT in my XP pc at work and it shows the 2??x2?? set of resolutions so it would seem this is a Vista issue

I do remember you saying something about possibly installing the xp drivers in vista but I can't remember where it was at, or even if it was in the middle of this huge topic or not

Stu
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on October 01, 2009, 07:56:40 am
Salior how does soft15khz work in Windows 7 ultimate 64?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: PimpDaddyStu on October 01, 2009, 07:00:01 pm
Been playing about with this all night and I'm still not having any joy with either ATI card, I've manged to get both Cataluyst 9.2 and 9.4 installed but I still can't get any low resolutions to appear.

I've made a discovery with the 8600 though, depending on what monitor I have plugged in when I reboot, quick res will show different resolutions...

I plugged an old NEC Diamond PC monitor into my arcade, installed all 3 soft-15k options rebooted and noticed the 2??x2?? where available, I unplugged the NEC and plugged in my Hantrex Polo Star and tested the various 2??x2?? resolutions and they worked fine.

I rebooted the system with the PoloStar attached and now the 2??x2?? resolutions are missing again

I've attached an image of 2 screen grabs of quick res

Where does quick res gets its information from? Is this expected?

Stu
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: mooro on October 08, 2009, 09:04:50 am
Newbie here. Just setting up a mame convert for an old undedicated cab. Doing o.k. Got soft15khz working pretty quickly with my Nvidia 6800 I had lying around. Monitor is Hantarex 9300.

I am having problem sdisplaying the 321 x 240 resoltuion. The monitor just won't handle it for some games, and others gives a really small pciture on the screen. If I remove 321 x 240 from the available modes list in mame resolution tool, and use 336 x 240, all seems o.k. Any idea why I cant get the 321 mode to run properly?

Also, although mame resoltuion tool is really useful, wouldn't if be good if you could re-run it without having to redo all the settings each time, i.e. on a per game basis? AM I missing something?

One last question sailor, If I switch to cabmame, can I keep my romset for .134 and will it work o.k. with mamewah?

Cheers,

mooro
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 15, 2009, 08:11:41 am
I'm running Vista x64... could this be the problem?

Actually Soft-15kHz should tell you it probably won't work on Vista :)
So yes, thats a Vista issue.



I've made a discovery with the 8600 though, depending on what monitor I have plugged in when I reboot, quick res will show different resolutions...

I plugged an old NEC Diamond PC monitor into my arcade, installed all 3 soft-15k options rebooted and noticed the 2??x2?? where available, I unplugged the NEC and plugged in my Hantrex Polo Star and tested the various 2??x2?? resolutions and they worked fine.

I rebooted the system with the PoloStar attached and now the 2??x2?? resolutions are missing again

Thats the "safe mode" problem. You'll need a valid EDID source for that card to fully work.



Salior how does soft15khz work in Windows 7 ultimate 64?

Works fine in the Seven Beta (x64) for me, so most likely should work fine in the retail too.



Newbie here. Just setting up a mame convert for an old undedicated cab. Doing o.k. Got soft15khz working pretty quickly with my Nvidia 6800 I had lying around. Monitor is Hantarex 9300.

I am having problem sdisplaying the 321 x 240 resoltuion. The monitor just won't handle it for some games, and others gives a really small pciture on the screen. If I remove 321 x 240 from the available modes list in mame resolution tool, and use 336 x 240, all seems o.k. Any idea why I cant get the 321 mode to run properly?
Hm... You shouldn't have the 321x240 mode on nvidia cards anymore, should be 320x240.
Are you using the latest version? Maybe you just found a bug :)



Also, although mame resoltuion tool is really useful, wouldn't if be good if you could re-run it without having to redo all the settings each time, i.e. on a per game basis? AM I missing something?
Don't know exactly what you mean. Theres a global file with settings (mame.ini) where you can set "switchres" to 1 and let mame decide its resolution by itself. Also in the subfolder "ini" there are game-specific files for settings (i.e. pacman.ini).



One last question sailor, If I switch to cabmame, can I keep my romset for .134 and will it work o.k. with mamewah?

Cheers,
mooro
I'll upload cabmame 0.134 today, somehow totaly missed it.
It works as a simple drop-in replacement and should work fine out of the box.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: KissMyWookie on October 15, 2009, 02:12:11 pm
For anyone that still needs a graphics card that works well with Soft15kHz - Newegg.com has a good deal on an ASUS ATI 4350, that has a nice big passively cooled heatsink on it and it's $27.99 after MIR (Mail-In Rebate).

ASUS EAH4350 SILENT/DI/512MD2(LP) Radeon HD 4350 512MB 64-bit DDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 CrossFire Supported Low Profile Ready Video Card - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121310&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-Video+Cards-_-ASUS-_-14121310)

Steve
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Cisek on October 18, 2009, 02:05:33 pm
Sorry if someone already asked about it, but can somebody post additional custom 15 khz modelines? Those that are built in are great and all of them works on my monitor, however some mame games just can't be played in their native, as there isn't some resolutions implemented in soft15khz, which gives a laggy sound (I know about cabmame, but I would like to solve it with additional resolutions modelines). If anyone have made additional 15 khz resolutions modelines, that are working, please post it here.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on October 19, 2009, 07:41:04 pm
Sorry if someone already asked about it, but can somebody post additional custom 15 khz modelines? Those that are built in are great and all of them works on my monitor, however some mame games just can't be played in their native, as there isn't some resolutions implemented in soft15khz, which gives a laggy sound (I know about cabmame, but I would like to solve it with additional resolutions modelines). If anyone have made additional 15 khz resolutions modelines, that are working, please post it here.

The thread is peppered with them, and discussions on them. An archive of certain things abstracted would be cool....oh, wait, that's what a wiki's for.....except people don't read it, don't know it's there, or/and don't frequently maintain it. Mmmm.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Cisek on October 21, 2009, 02:33:36 pm
I am sorry, my english is very poor and I couldn't find a solution for my question in this topic (I tried some of the additional modelines but it didn't work). So please excuse me. Still if anyone can help me, it would be very appreciated.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on October 21, 2009, 05:39:06 pm
Seems your english is fine to me. Maybe you don't really understand how native display works, and how to calculate modelines an all. It's a little complex, it is. Check out the monitor wiki. Also, ask someone you know to help you with words or whatever, or ask someone here and give your native language.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: mooro on October 26, 2009, 09:48:19 pm
O.K. so I downloaded the newer version of soft15khz and now I have the 320 mode and that is working fine, thanks.

The problem I am having now is on start up. I have shelled the p.c. to boot straight into mamewah.

Most of the time this results in 15khz not being sent to the monitor (as confirmed by abscence of l.e.d. on j-pac).

However If I press "Player 1" to start a game, then 15khz gets sent, and the "nag" screen appears for the game just started. If I then exit back to mamewah, it displays fine.

Strangely, sometimes tunring on the p.c. sees it send 15khz first time, and Mamewah is visible without the above work around.

Any ideas?

Cheers,

mooro
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Seven11 on October 27, 2009, 12:51:06 am
OK, guys, I have a new problem, with a new machine, and I was hoping somebody in this forum could maybe point me in the right direction...
I have a Top Skater machine with a 50" toshiba projection monitor on it.  The only inputs the monitor has is BCNC, so I ordered a VGA to BCNC cable and hooked it up.  With the pc running normally, tons of out of sync garbage appears on screen, just as if you hooked it up to an arcade monitor without modifying it.  So I installed soft15, and it wouldnt display anything at all.  Sometimes it will turn one solid color for a few seconds and fade out, but that's it.
When I hook up a regular PC monitor to it, it displays properly, but I dont think it should, because soft15 is supposedly installed.  I have it running through an Nvidia 6800oc, and I used a program called refreshforce to remove a bunch of resolutions from it to avoid the forceware bug.
I'm really wondering if this setup CAN work.  Ive gotten all the manuals for the TopSkater machine, and they all show it as a Mitsubishi Projection TV, but this is very obviously NOT that TV.  It should also be noted that when I originally got the machine, it worked as a TopSkater just fine, display and all. 
I guess I'm just asking if anyone has any knowledge of projection screens that might be able to help me out.  I would hate for this project to turn out to be a big waste...
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: KissMyWookie on October 27, 2009, 01:04:22 am
Seven11 - Do you have the RGB+VSync+HSync connected into the correct BNC terminals?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Seven11 on October 28, 2009, 11:37:50 am
Yeah, they're color-coded and kinda hard to mess up.  I hooked the massive monitor up to my mame machine which already has soft15 installed and running properly, and it still comes up with a garbled, out of sync mess.  This leads me to believe that this monitor runs at a different frequency than normal arcade monitors do.  I'll include a few pics of what the screen is doing when it is hooked up to my working mame / soft15khz setup.  As always, good work, everyone, and thanks in advance.

EDIT: It should also be noted that the monitor only uses a single sync cable.  I'm using a VGA to BNC RGBs cable to hook it up.  Not sure if that would cause any problems.  Also, I read somewhere that these SEGA monitors are supposedly 24KHz, but there seemed to be some confusion from other people saying they were 15KHz.  I know some SEGA stuff is med-res, such as Virtua Fighter 2/3 and I think Virtua Cop and some others.  I will be checking into this momentarily.

(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/9590/sspx0342.jpg)
(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2559/sspx0343x.jpg)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on October 28, 2009, 02:29:11 pm
Seven. Installing soft15 means you now HAVE the capacity for lower resolutions. You have to then SET one - either you desktop, or/and games in MAME.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: KissMyWookie on October 28, 2009, 02:41:56 pm
Yeah, they're color-coded and kinda hard to mess up.  I hooked the massive monitor up to my mame machine which already has soft15 installed and running properly, and it still comes up with a garbled, out of sync mess.  This leads me to believe that this monitor runs at a different frequency than normal arcade monitors do.  I'll include a few pics of what the screen is doing when it is hooked up to my working mame / soft15khz setup.  As always, good work, everyone, and thanks in advance.

EDIT: It should also be noted that the monitor only uses a single sync cable.  I'm using a VGA to BNC RGBs cable to hook it up.  Not sure if that would cause any problems.  Also, I read somewhere that these SEGA monitors are supposedly 24KHz, but there seemed to be some confusion from other people saying they were 15KHz.  I know some SEGA stuff is med-res, such as Virtua Fighter 2/3 and I think Virtua Cop and some others.  I will be checking into this momentarily.

After looking up Sega Top Skater, I found the resolution of the game to be 496x384@60Hz - which is a 24kHz horizontal scan rate.

It is possible that Sega skimped on the monitor circuit and it can only handle 24kHz signals ... in which case you'll have to calculate new modelines to try to get the resolutions you want for MAME.

Also, the VGA->RGBs cable you have - if it is not powered, then the sync combiner circuit in the cable will be made for specific horizontal and vertical polarities. If you have a manual/guide for the cable, set your modelines as it specifies ... if not, try every combination of positive/negative+horizontal/vertical that there is.

Steve

Edit: I got the 24kHz from the XFree86 Modeline generator...
http://xtiming.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/xtiming.pl (http://xtiming.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/xtiming.pl)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Seven11 on October 28, 2009, 08:08:06 pm

After looking up Sega Top Skater, I found the resolution of the game to be 496x384@60Hz - which is a 24kHz horizontal scan rate.

It is possible that Sega skimped on the monitor circuit and it can only handle 24kHz signals ... in which case you'll have to calculate new modelines to try to get the resolutions you want for MAME.

Also, the VGA->RGBs cable you have - if it is not powered, then the sync combiner circuit in the cable will be made for specific horizontal and vertical polarities. If you have a manual/guide for the cable, set your modelines as it specifies ... if not, try every combination of positive/negative+horizontal/vertical that there is.

Steve


Alright, that sounds like something useful.  It should be also noted that I will not be using this for MAME, but for StepMania, a Dance Dance Revolution emulator that runs in windows.
You mention calculating new modelines, but I am under the understanding that soft15 can only do certain resolutions, and very little at 25KHz.  I am kinda way outta my league here, so any info is good info, at this point.
End project objective is to get a windows pc to display on this screen.  After that, everything will be left alone, as I wont be doing any switchres-ing or anything like that, simply because the only program that will be running on the machine can be set to one res and be done.
Thanks for the help guys, I think we're getting close.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: solid187 on October 29, 2009, 10:21:21 am
Has anyone noticed a slugishness in trackball games (specifically Centipede and Millipede) after installing this awesome utility?  I'm not sure if it's related, but now there is a slight delay from when I physically move the trackball and when my player moves. 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: KissMyWookie on October 29, 2009, 11:14:20 am
Has anyone noticed a slugishness in trackball games (specifically Centipede and Millipede) after installing this awesome utility?  I'm not sure if it's related, but now there is a slight delay from when I physically move the trackball and when my player moves. 
The problem you're having is completely unrelated ... I don't know where though!

Soft-15kHz is only running at the time you have the interface open. It doesn't run in the background at all ... it just sets things in your windows registry, then terminates when you close the program.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Antropus on October 29, 2009, 04:08:14 pm
I fresh installed windows 7 yesterday and I'm having problems making soft15khz to work with it. Seems like the resolutions are added fine (once applied, every time I run the .exe file I can only see the "uninstall' button available, so I guess the resolutions were added fine...). BUT, once I run mameUI and try to change the resolution of any game (like I usually do in windowsXP), I don't have ANY of the custom resolutions available. I have WindowsXP running in the same machine and soft15khz works perfectly on it but windows 7 is a no go. Any plans for a new version fully compatible with windows 7? Workarounds? Any help?

ps.: I have Catalyst 9.10 for Win7 64 installed. Do you think that if I remove it and ask windows to search and install a driver from their database - other than catalyst - soft15khz will be able to 'see' the card and install the new resolutions? I mean, do I need to have catalyst installed or a 'generic' windows driver for the ATI HD 4890 will work with soft15khz?

Thanks in advance,
-Kris
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 29, 2009, 04:43:57 pm
Maybe they changed some key names.
I'll check out soon.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Antropus on October 29, 2009, 04:57:54 pm
Maybe they changed some key names.
I'll check out soon.
Thanks a TON!

-Kris
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on October 30, 2009, 04:32:06 pm
Has anyone noticed a slugishness in trackball games (specifically Centipede and Millipede) after installing this awesome utility?  I'm not sure if it's related, but now there is a slight delay from when I physically move the trackball and when my player moves. 

Running at different resolutions can cause frame rate glitches. How MAME runs natively (and as I've said before, this seems to be getting worse as MAME develops) can affect this.

As well, how your monitor interacts with MAME is a factor. Analog monitors I've used, as long as you're giving good and correct signal wiring-wise, and you're within operational range signal-wise, have been smoooooth with regular MAME. Older MAME, anyways.

My digital multi-sync, on the other hand, is a little finicky at times, cos it has specific modes of its own. (Another reason I stick with AdvanceMAME is that it runs the best in this case.)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Antropus on November 02, 2009, 02:03:20 pm
SailorSat, any news about the windows7 situation?
Is there anyone using it successfully with the final version of win7?

Thanks,
-Kris
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: kronic24601 on November 05, 2009, 11:01:25 am
SailorSat, any news about the windows7 situation?
Is there anyone using it successfully with the final version of win7?

Thanks,
-Kris

This is also something I would also like to know. I have Windows 7 64 Bit, and there is a XP compatibility mode ... I'm not sure if that would be usefull though in this application.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 05, 2009, 12:13:19 pm
Sorry for the time being :)

Currently I'm a little frustrated about reallife stuff =)
Lookin for a new job and desperately searching for some stuff I did showing what I can... And MAME hacks and that stuff sure doesn't help.

Ever tried to "show" someone how soft15khz works without a 15khz capable display? ^^

Geez...
As for Windows7; the compatiblity mode won't help.
For some reason I think the last time I tried it only worked with NVidia cards as the ATI cards won't show up any lowres modes for some unknown reason.
However I can't look into it at the moment.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Antropus on November 05, 2009, 02:14:30 pm
Sorry to hear about that. Best of luck finding a great new job!

Cheers,
-Kris

edit: oooops... I didn't know ;-)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on November 05, 2009, 04:32:38 pm
Sorry to hear about that man.

Edited for accuracy.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: FrizzleFried on November 07, 2009, 02:09:49 am
Does soft 15khz support multiple monitor setups?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 07, 2009, 04:26:36 am
Basicaly it does.
It DOES support INDEPENTEND settings if you have multiple graphic cards.
As for single card solutions... well... currently all settings are applied to "all heads" of a graphic card.

If you want to drive two arcade screens with one or two cards, it works fine.
If you want to drive one arcade and one vga screen, you will need to use two cards.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: FrizzleFried on November 07, 2009, 01:23:09 pm
Basicaly it does.
It DOES support INDEPENTEND settings if you have multiple graphic cards.
As for single card solutions... well... currently all settings are applied to "all heads" of a graphic card.

If you want to drive two arcade screens with one or two cards, it works fine.
If you want to drive one arcade and one vga screen, you will need to use two cards.

Kick ass!  I've picked up a Punch Out cab that has been JAMMAtized.   I am debating whether to restore to Punch Out or to make it a dedicated Multi Punch Out MAME cab.   I think Punch Out,  Super Punch Out,  and Arm Wrestling as well as PC-10 stuff would be pretty cool to have running in this cab.

Since I have to use a JPAC,  I guess I'd use the JPAC for the arcade controls and the lower monitor,  then just run a break out cable to the 2nd monitor from the 2nd header...right?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 07, 2009, 01:49:49 pm
Nice one ;)
That should work fine :)

Had a pair of Racing-Cabs wired to one PC for OutRunners Dual-Action :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ummon on November 07, 2009, 04:14:01 pm
Soft15 has for a long time apparently registered both heads, though. I was under the impression they were independently configurable - but then, why would it matter, if you can set independent resolutions via your drivers?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: claypool on November 14, 2009, 09:32:58 pm
Just started testing this program and have run into problems already

I install the nvidia drivers for my 6800 GS then use the tool quickres to select 640 x 480, then I install soft15khz and reboot

it works fine on my arcade monitor I can see windows after a reboot then when I uninstall the soft15khz and reboot it gets locked in 15khz mode

why does it do this shouldnt it reset to normal when I uninstall?

I have a monitor switch so i can easily change between PC monitor and arcade monitor.

thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tisurame on November 17, 2009, 10:15:00 am
I'm using a Geforce 9400gt (with the latest drivers) and 640x480 interlaced at 15khz is not working. Is this a know problem?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: speedklz on November 18, 2009, 04:09:00 pm
Well I run into sompthing odd the other night.. I had a problem with some registry corruption on a machine I was cab testing well when It would boot it was showing the boot screen in split mode and the windows startup screen also, but after fixing the registry it went back to the way it always is , that you cant read anything till windows load the soft15k stuff... Is this weird or what?  It almost looked like when it devides the 30khz into the 15khz on jpac.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on November 24, 2009, 08:19:52 am
I have an Ati x800xl with catalyst 6.5 and all works very well.
I'm using an old Ati mach64 PCI to avoid bios and windows loading 31KHz images.

The problem is that this card (Ati mach64) makes winxp stanby not working (driver issue I think).

I can buy a used (but more recent) Radeon 9250 PCI.

My questions are:

1 - Will 9250 make standby working?
2 - Will 9250 automatically take catalyst 6.5 drivers (already installed for the x800xl)?
3 - Using the same drivers, have I to reinstall soft15KHz?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 24, 2009, 10:12:04 am
1 - don't know ^^
2 - should work fine
3 - you should not have to, if you don't reinstall the catalyst driver.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on November 25, 2009, 02:58:45 am
9250 PCI installed.
I had to reinstall catalyst and 15KHz modelines.

All works fine now, BTW if I disable the 9250 from device manager, the stanby/hibernation doesn't work.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Bobulus on December 04, 2009, 04:22:24 pm
Apologies if this has been asked before, but I searched and didn't find anything...

I've seen lots of posts about using soft15khz with SCART and component to get an arcade-quality picture on a television. Well...what about a television equipped with a VGA port?

I bought (via the buy/sell forum) a 26" tv equipped with a scancardII upgrade card which lets you hook in a vga cable from the computer directly. According to the manual (http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/s/scn2card/scn2card_dfu_aen.pdf), the supported modes include

320x200 31.5kHz-H 70Hz-V
320x400 31.5kHz-H 70Hz-V
640x480 31.5kHz-H 60Hz-V
640x480 37.8kHz-H 72Hz-V
640x480   35kHz-H 60Hz-V
...among others. Nothing below 31.5kHz, though.

"Scancard II requires seperate sync signals"

I've got it working now with a 800x600 display, and it looks pretty good, but I'd like to push it a bit farther, if I can.

So I've got two questions:
1) It appears that this tv/monitor does not natively support 15kHz, but I would assume since it's a tv, it can do anything a normal tv can, so...what the heck would happen if I output 15khz to it? Nothing? Short out the tv?
2) Assuming I can't get 15kHz working, do you think it would still be worth it to install soft15kHz for the 320x200 support? Seems like what I've read here is that leaving the game unscaled before transmission to the tv makes for a better game picture.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Brenry on December 05, 2009, 05:50:50 am
Hi SailorSat.  you helped me get started on my arcade project last spring and I am back at it again.  There's just too many pages in this thread to read all thats happened.  I've run across the post about Nvidia's drivers allowing custom 15khz resolutions which I found helpful.  And I still see it saying the GeForce 9800 GTX+ probably needs a dongle. I don't know if a J-Pac counts as a dongle, but I am able to connect my 9800 > J-Pac > WG 7000 with no issues to sync at 15khz resolutions.

I checked your site and still couldn't find a faq file.  Is there a link somewhere for more resolutions to try for the custom config file?  I'm guessing the one on Andy's site probably ?  I still need to tweak my resolutions for vertical mode games.  Directdraw makes them gorgeous I just get top of the screen and bottom cutoff (no scores :(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 05, 2009, 06:22:36 am
...among others. Nothing below 31.5kHz, though.

"Scancard II requires seperate sync signals"

I've got it working now with a 800x600 display, and it looks pretty good, but I'd like to push it a bit farther, if I can.

So I've got two questions:
1) It appears that this tv/monitor does not natively support 15kHz, but I would assume since it's a tv, it can do anything a normal tv can, so...what the heck would happen if I output 15khz to it? Nothing? Short out the tv?
2) Assuming I can't get 15kHz working, do you think it would still be worth it to install soft15kHz for the 320x200 support? Seems like what I've read here is that leaving the game unscaled before transmission to the tv makes for a better game picture.

Basically if the TV doesn't support 15kHz you won't blow anything. Most certainly you'd either get a "blue" screen (meaning no signal) or you would see "garbage" that can't be synched.

As for S15K. Well you could add all low resolutions with "120Hz" (real lowres, double refresh rate) or "doublescanned" (fake lowres, all lines doubled).



I don't know if a J-Pac counts as a dongle, but I am able to connect my 9800 > J-Pac > WG 7000 with no issues to sync at 15khz resolutions.

I checked your site and still couldn't find a faq file.  Is there a link somewhere for more resolutions to try for the custom config file?  I'm guessing the one on Andy's site probably ?  I still need to tweak my resolutions for vertical mode games.  Directdraw makes them gorgeous I just get top of the screen and bottom cutoff (no scores :(

The J-PAC does NOT count as a dongle. You can tell if you need one by looking at the available resolutions.
If you can use resolutions below 640x480 you don't need one.

As for the "vertical on horizontal" issue... I don't have any custom modelines prepared for that case.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: chairhome on December 07, 2009, 12:45:13 am
Problem: I was using soft 15khz fine and didn't have any problems, but my brother was browsing some video files on the computer that its attached to, the video he was watching froze and the program had to force close, and now the screen won't stop rolling.  I'm guessing its an issue with the refresh rate, but how do I kick it back into soft 15khz mode?  Do I just run it again and "install" again in safe mode?  Thanks.

EDIT: NEVER MIND.
I think quickres got shut off.  I re-used quickres and it works now.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: pubjoe on December 07, 2009, 04:53:44 am
Hi sailorsat.

This might be a stupid question, but I've been wondering:

Is there any way to force a 640x480 image to output at a (scaled) 15khz progressive mode using software.

For example, could alternate lines be displayed only, giving a 640x240 image?

...It's just that I hate interlacing on my arcade monitor.

--------

[edit]I think I've sorted the below issue by adding a custom modeline from the big list sailorsat posted a few pages back:

modeline "640x480@30" 13,482 640 688 760 856 480 496 517 525 -hsync -vsync interlace


While I say that I don't like interlacing, I should probably mention that 640x480 interlaced looks especially bad on my monitor (nanao MS9).  I noticed this recently when I tried different resolutions for my frontend.  720x480 looks MUCH more stable in comparison.

eg: 640x480 mode:
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/1c6cf3678a.jpg)

compared to 720x480 mode:
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/01775d11b4.jpg)

The difference is greater when your actually looking at the screen due to the flickering/shaking.  Any idea why there is such a big difference?

I have installed the default "15khz" modelines and also 9 low res (progressive only) custom modelines.  I have an ati radeon 4850.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: glocknyne on December 10, 2009, 04:21:43 pm
Hey guys! I am having problems with my setup. I have an Atomiswave SD candy cabinet with the stock tri-sync monitor. When I install Soft-15khz (just the 15khz), 15khz games looks fine (a little bit overscanning). When I install 24khz, the results were pretty similar with the 15khz games (didn't try 24khz games). When I install 31khz, the games look fine (Marvel vs Capcom 2, Capcom vs SNK 2, & Street Fighter IV) BUT when I try to play 15khz, it'll overscan a LOT. Any way to fix this? Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: LS1 on December 12, 2009, 06:20:39 pm
Hi,

I'm having some issues with soft-15, it works, but I can't get any XXXx256, or XXXx264 modes to work.  I'm running a geforce 2 ultra, under win2000, with a hantarex MTC9000, and a j-pac.
I also ran avres.

My issue is mame selects those (x256, and x264) resolutions that don't work for all the games that ran 288x224, ie. pacman, galaga, etc.

I've modified the mame ini's to run those games at 352x288, but I get stuttering, I think because they are running at 50hz, instead of 60hz where they ran originally.

any ideas?

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on December 14, 2009, 03:48:15 am
Hi,
Anyone using "Hantarex Polo Star 28" - 15/25/31KHz" analogue tri sync monitor?

Is the switching between 15 and 31KHz modelines good?

Is it possible to set well centered and stretched modelines for 15 and 31KHz, or have I to regulate pots every time it switches from 15 to 31KHz and viceversa?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: glocknyne on December 14, 2009, 11:53:21 am
Hey guys! I am having problems with my setup. I have an Atomiswave SD candy cabinet with the stock tri-sync monitor. When I install Soft-15khz (just the 15khz), 15khz games looks fine (a little bit overscanning). When I install 24khz, the results were pretty similar with the 15khz games (didn't try 24khz games). When I install 31khz, the games look fine (Marvel vs Capcom 2, Capcom vs SNK 2, & Street Fighter IV) BUT when I try to play 15khz, it'll overscan a LOT. Any way to fix this? Thanks in advance.

Bump.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: pubjoe on December 14, 2009, 06:11:15 pm
Hey guys! I am having problems with my setup. I have an Atomiswave SD candy cabinet with the stock tri-sync monitor. When I install Soft-15khz (just the 15khz), 15khz games looks fine (a little bit overscanning). When I install 24khz, the results were pretty similar with the 15khz games (didn't try 24khz games). When I install 31khz, the games look fine (Marvel vs Capcom 2, Capcom vs SNK 2, & Street Fighter IV) BUT when I try to play 15khz, it'll overscan a LOT. Any way to fix this? Thanks in advance.
Bump.

Just a guess.  Your not running out of available modelines are you?  What graphics card are you using?

Also, are you using the vga input from the moniter chassis?  If so, you might get a better 15khz result using the jamma harness.

[edit]Nevermind, you have the wei-ya chassis yeah?  If so, it should handle everything through vga.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: glocknyne on December 15, 2009, 04:45:25 am
Thanks for the reply btw.

I am using an ATI HD4650. I am not sure what chassis it is, I just know it's the stock one.

I am also using the VGA from the Chassis. I have a J-Pac but the monitor doesn't show any picture after the boot screen no matter what resolutions I have on.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: pubjoe on December 15, 2009, 05:51:07 am
That's strange.

Can you test if jamma pcbs (non vga) work okay?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on December 15, 2009, 05:51:39 am
Hey guys! I am having problems with my setup. I have an Atomiswave SD candy cabinet with the stock tri-sync monitor. When I install Soft-15khz (just the 15khz), 15khz games looks fine (a little bit overscanning). When I install 24khz, the results were pretty similar with the 15khz games (didn't try 24khz games). When I install 31khz, the games look fine (Marvel vs Capcom 2, Capcom vs SNK 2, & Street Fighter IV) BUT when I try to play 15khz, it'll overscan a LOT. Any way to fix this? Thanks in advance.

Bump.

Which monitor are you using? Is it an analogue or digital tri sync?

Maybe you can answer to this:
Hi,
Anyone using "Hantarex Polo Star 28" - 15/25/31KHz" analogue tri sync monitor?

Is the switching between 15 and 31KHz modelines good?

Is it possible to set well centered and stretched modelines for 15 and 31KHz, or have I to regulate pots every time it switches from 15 to 31KHz and viceversa?

Have you tried to make custom modelines (like larger 31KHz modelines to get right 15KHz image when you switch back)?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: glocknyne on December 16, 2009, 06:02:15 am
Hey guys! I am having problems with my setup. I have an Atomiswave SD candy cabinet with the stock tri-sync monitor. When I install Soft-15khz (just the 15khz), 15khz games looks fine (a little bit overscanning). When I install 24khz, the results were pretty similar with the 15khz games (didn't try 24khz games). When I install 31khz, the games look fine (Marvel vs Capcom 2, Capcom vs SNK 2, & Street Fighter IV) BUT when I try to play 15khz, it'll overscan a LOT. Any way to fix this? Thanks in advance.

Bump.

Which monitor are you using? Is it an analogue or digital tri sync?

Maybe you can answer to this:
Hi,
Anyone using "Hantarex Polo Star 28" - 15/25/31KHz" analogue tri sync monitor?

Is the switching between 15 and 31KHz modelines good?

Is it possible to set well centered and stretched modelines for 15 and 31KHz, or have I to regulate pots every time it switches from 15 to 31KHz and viceversa?

Have you tried to make custom modelines (like larger 31KHz modelines to get right 15KHz image when you switch back)?


Thanks for the reply. I don't know the difference between an analog monitor or digital monitor. Sorry, I'm still a noob to this.

New Update: Well I turned on the computer today and it seems to switch resolution fine without massive overscan when switching to 15khz games (still a little overscan on the top and bottom but not a big deal). The only problem is that I always have to mess with the monitor settings (horizontal stretch) going from 31khz to 15khz vice versa.

Is there a way I can change resolution without having the need to mess with the monitor knob things every time I play a different game?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on December 16, 2009, 09:43:55 am
Is there a way I can change resolution without having the need to mess with the monitor knob things every time I play a different game?
Yes. You can change modelines stretching (only horizontal - vertical requires vertical frequency changes) and centering (it's some "manual work"). But you have to understand how to modify that modelines. I've used "WinModelines" tool to do that. It has a quick guide that tech you how to obtain that.

Can you please tell me what's you monitor model? (hantarex polo star, wells garnder, etc..)

Thanks

PS: The difference between analog and digital monitors, is the possibility to save resolutions stretching and positions (and maybe other things that I don't know).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: pubjoe on December 16, 2009, 01:58:09 pm
the monitor knob things

It's analogue.

and if it's stock it'll almost definitely be a wei-ya chassis (probably a M3129).  With either a samsung or lg tube.

You can have a look at the back for identification.

P.S; Nice cab the AWSD.  I almost got one, but I ended up getting an Egret2 instead.

Yes. You can change modelines stretching (only horizontal - vertical requires vertical frequency changes) and centering (it's some "manual work"). But you have to understand how to modify that modelines. I've used "WinModelines" tool to do that. It has a quick guide that tech you how to obtain that.

Hey nice, didn't realise you could do that.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: glocknyne on December 16, 2009, 04:51:08 pm
Thanks guys, I appreciate the responses.  I will try some things this week and let you guys know what happen.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: secret80sman on January 03, 2010, 04:18:19 am
SailorSat,
Any update on whether you were able to get things working with Win 7 again?

Many thanx!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 03, 2010, 10:44:53 am
Well my Radeon HD 4350/4550 work fine with Catalyst 9.12 on Seven 64bit.
However my GeForce 7600GT doesn't anymore, seems like nvidia changed the registry format again :(

*EDIT*
Guess I'll try several older versions and add a "warning" to the next build...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: androtaz08 on January 06, 2010, 12:53:39 am
Hi
I have a nvidia 7800 gts that I am replacing an arcade vga with. I installed and followed the directions and everything worked great. I played some mame games for a while and turned off my machine. The next day I turn it on and I get two screens on 640 by 480. what have I done? worked one night not the next.
help
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: secret80sman on January 06, 2010, 11:50:51 am
Well my Radeon HD 4350/4550 work fine with Catalyst 9.12 on Seven 64bit.
However my GeForce 7600GT doesn't anymore, seems like nvidia changed the registry format again :(

*EDIT*
Guess I'll try several older versions and add a "warning" to the next build...

Bought the XFX HD 4350 and I could not get the new resolutions to show up. I used XP mode and they showed up but when I click on them I get a black screen. I think I remember reading that you said that XP mode does not work with Soft15khz. Any suggestions on what to do?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: androtaz08 on January 07, 2010, 01:03:53 am
Hi
I have a nvidia 7800 gts that I am replacing an arcade vga with. I installed and followed the directions and everything worked great. I played some mame games for a while and turned off my machine. The next day I turn it on and I get two screens on 640 by 480. what have I done? worked one night not the next.
help

Anyone?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 07, 2010, 01:13:42 am
Do other resolution still work?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: androtaz08 on January 07, 2010, 01:18:59 am
yes a few lower ones. but if I reinstall everything and start from scratch it works but as son as i restart two screens. if i power on with the lcd attached then switch once windows loads it works. using the latest drivers and its a 7600 gs actually 256mb
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 07, 2010, 01:36:43 am
Hm... Maybe give it a shot without the LCD attached while installing (select a lower res like 640x288 first)

(note to myself, make window smaller ;D)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: pubjoe on January 07, 2010, 07:56:37 pm
(note to myself, make window smaller ;D)

 :laugh: Would be a good idea.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: androtaz08 on January 07, 2010, 11:57:04 pm
Hm... Maybe give it a shot without the LCD attached while installing (select a lower res like 640x288 first)

(note to myself, make window smaller ;D)

tried it that way and nothing. seems like sometimes 640x288 works but I need 640x480. I have only been able to get that resolution by reinstalling drivers then installing 15k then booting up with the lcd and then switching to the arcade monitor. sometimes it shows up as 2 nice looking screens. sometimes as 4 zig zagy screens. Maybe its just my card? If all else fails I can go back to my arcadevga wich works great but I want to be able to run a Sega Naomi emulator and ultimarc's card is way to antiquated.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: androtaz08 on January 08, 2010, 12:00:20 am
also even when 640x480 is working and I re select in in quick res the screen goes nuts. I have tried every possible way using both the vga and dvi output using the vga adapter.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gravitone on January 09, 2010, 03:54:36 am
is there any way to get soft15khz working yet with windows 7 x64 and an nvidia card? I just need one resolution really (1024x600).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: androtaz08 on January 10, 2010, 01:12:45 am
ok tried an older driver seems to work a little better. now when it tries to display a res it cant do everything goes black. some of the lower resolutions work. but useless unless I can get 640x480. Maybe I need a dongle? I dont even know what that is. very frustrating. especially when it works by accident sometimes.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: secret80sman on January 15, 2010, 02:15:13 pm
Guys,
Does anyone have a modeline worked out for 800x600 @60 hertz
and also the 1024x768 @60 hertz or are neither of these possible with Soft 15khz?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 15, 2010, 02:34:41 pm
15khz? not possible
800x600@60 = 35khz and 1024x768@60=48khz
(or 17 and 24 is interlaced)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: secret80sman on January 15, 2010, 03:49:08 pm
15khz? not possible
800x600@60 = 35khz and 1024x768@60=48khz
(or 17 and 24 is interlaced)

No, 31khz. My 800x600 resolution now only comes up at 51 and flickers where it once didn't and my 1024x768 interlaced shows up as 29 and 30 and also has too much flicker so I wanted to bump up the refresh rate to compensate unless you have a better idea. Would modelines for either of these work? If so could you please post or point me towards where I can get them to cut and paste into my custom31khz.txt file.

I read through posts and you had posted this a few years ago:
modeline '800x600@60p' 40.0 800 840 968 1056 600 601 605 628 -hsync -vsync
 I used it and my 800x600 is back! Any thoughts on how to make the 1024x768 flicker free on a wells gardner d9800?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: FritoFredrik on January 20, 2010, 04:19:16 am
so i just made a vga to scart and it workt fine but now when i am running the monitor at 15khz 800x400 and i get flickering in some parts of the screen
and its too big cant see everything its to stretch at top and bottom

need some help tv is a 27" and graphics card is ati radeon 9550 so what setting should i use ? 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bulldawg on January 20, 2010, 07:13:53 pm
Ok Ive been trying with no luck to get my setup going. I have a WinFast A340T NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 AGP vga card. I downloaded the latest build of soft15k and the quick res. I opened soft15k and it said my drivers where not compatable so I downloaded the ones it suggested. Opened soft15k again and saw that it recognized my vga card. So I clicked install and it installed the 15 & 31k s/w. Then I set quickres to 640x480 60hz and restarted my pc and turned on my mtc9000 hantarex monitor and nothing, black screen. I should mention that im using a j-pac aswell. I also tried it on my hantarex polo monitor and still nothing, also tried different resolutions, but nothing works. Any ideas?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 21, 2010, 01:30:09 am
So I clicked install and it installed the 15 & 31k s/w. Then I set quickres to 640x480 60hz and restarted my pc and turned on my mtc9000 hantarex monitor and nothing, black screen.

1. if your card has 2 outputs, try the other one

2. why 15 & 31khz? both your mtc9000 and polo are 15khz only
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bulldawg on January 21, 2010, 08:16:01 am
My card only has one output for vga and a yellow video out for tv. When i opened up soft15k build 48 I think, both 15 & 31k where highlighted, so when I hit install it installed both.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gse123 on January 23, 2010, 06:12:25 pm
I have successfully got soft1 5khz up and running with a JPAC, and all is good. The only thing is, i can't seem to add custom resolutions... i'm creating a file called custom15htz.txt that contains the desired modeline, and place it in the DIR of soft15khz. Then, I load soft 15, and select 'user' option and reboot... but the new resolution isnt available from the quickres list. Any ideas?

 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 23, 2010, 09:11:58 pm
for custom15khz.txt use the 15khz button.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gse123 on January 24, 2010, 04:43:02 am
I already have the 15htz button seected from when i first installed and ran the software. It is now greyed out...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 24, 2010, 05:05:17 am
Actually click "uninstall" and then "install 15khz"
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gse123 on January 24, 2010, 05:09:07 am
Great thanks - i'll go give that a try  :cheers:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gse123 on January 24, 2010, 05:20:28 am
Still no joy i'm afraid. Clicked Uninstall, then re-selected the 15khz button and rebooted. Still no new res showing up in quickres list. here is a screen grab of the txt file and contents, just to make sure i've got that part looking ok!

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a339/mugatu123/soft15.gif)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 24, 2010, 07:08:29 am
I think you have your explorer set to hide file extensions (soft15khz is missing the .exe extension)
so most likely your file is named custom15khz.txt.txt now, try removing the .txt extension

*EDIT*
I doubt THAT modeline will work...
1st your vertical active parameter is wrong (is 334, should most likely be 224)

2nd you have 236 total lines and the should be output at 60hz? 236 * 60 = 14.160, which is way too low for a 15.750 Hz (aka 15kHz) monitor.

3rd.. pixel clock of 12.75mhz? htotal * vtotal = pixel per frame
pixelclock / pixel per frame = framerate
-> 388 * 236 = 91568px
12.750.000hz / 91568px = 139,24?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gse123 on January 24, 2010, 07:41:58 am
Removed the extra .txt from the file, and then re-calculated the modeline with another online calculator that I have been recommended (as I tried several, and they all gave quite different results for the same input values?)

Success!  ;D The resultion is now showing in quickres. Many thanks for your prompt replies and great support... not to mention fantastic software!  :cheers:


*** EDIT: Gah! Even though it is now showing, it will not display correctly. Like I mentioned above, I am a bit lost as to how to correctly work out the modeline, as every caculator I use gives a different (and none working) result.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: secret80sman on February 03, 2010, 05:58:53 am
Which online calculator did you use to get things working?

Really need a modeline that will give me 1024x768 flicker free on my WG9800. If anyone has achieved that please post it as well.

Thank You!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 13, 2010, 03:17:15 pm
Sailor. Mame 137. Can you release your wonderful cabmame 137?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 13, 2010, 03:46:34 pm
Can you use the Hiscore file from BYOAC? The one you use doesnt disable the disclamer nag screen.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 13, 2010, 06:24:39 pm
I'll look into it later today.
Need to get my 64bit rig updated with the new compile tools.
And I have a new "hack" in the pipe.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: M3d10n on March 14, 2010, 06:57:36 pm
Just came to post about how awesome Soft15KHz is. I got Windows 7 and an ATI HD 4850 and it allowed me to get 15KHz resolutions on my secondary display, while using 1440x900 on my primary display! Windows 7 detects the secondary display as an "unidentified display", but it offers an option to force the connection in the display resolution settings.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on March 15, 2010, 04:46:45 pm
Whats the "new hack" going to introduce?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 17, 2010, 02:26:15 am
Whats the "new hack" going to introduce?

Actually now there are two...
1. "inputlag"-fix is actually a bruteforce approach to the "input lag" problem. mame now polls twice a frame instead of once.
2. "doublebuff" is the other half of the "new hack". It changes the tripplebuffer to a doublebuffer (and changes the way directdraw handles vsync) which also "could" reduce the input delay.

Its a fact that any form of vsync in MAME causes some slight delay, though I can't really tell why.


As for the S15K topic... Nothing new yet. But some new "stock" modelines will be available for testing soon.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sosetsuken on March 17, 2010, 02:58:15 am
Hey SailorSat,

Thanks tonnes for the new Cabmame Diff's, helps my cab heaps!

I just wanted to ask, the default 640x480i mode line in soft15khz is very, very flickery but the 720x480 mode is nearly flickerfree.  Is there any way to adjust the 640x480 mode line to make it flicker free like the 720x480?

Thanks.

EDIT: 640x480 is the only resolution that seems to flicker.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 17, 2010, 02:01:37 pm
give it a try with

custom15khz.txt
Code: [Select]
modeline '640x480' 13,09 640 672 736 836 480 486 489 525 interlace -hsync -vsync
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: M3d10n on March 20, 2010, 11:59:48 am
I don't know if it's a side effect of using soft15Khz in a dual-monitor setup, but I cannot make MAME use interlaced resolutions. I can set my extended desktop resolution to interlaced 640x480 or 720x480 if I disable the "hide modes not supported by this monitor" in the Window's advanced video settings, but only 720x480 is listed in MAME and it goes out of sync when selected (progressive?).

Is there a way to permanently get rid of 31KHz 640x480, or fool windows into using the 15KHz mode instead?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sosetsuken on March 24, 2010, 01:07:55 am
give it a try with

custom15khz.txt
Code: [Select]
modeline '640x480' 13,09 640 672 736 836 480 486 489 525 interlace -hsync -vsync

Thanks Heaps for that SailorSat, that Modeline looks nearly as good as Progressive :D

Thanks a million! ^_^
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 24, 2010, 02:09:08 am
I don't know if it's a side effect of using soft15Khz in a dual-monitor setup, but I cannot make MAME use interlaced resolutions. I can set my extended desktop resolution to interlaced 640x480 or 720x480 if I disable the "hide modes not supported by this monitor" in the Window's advanced video settings, but only 720x480 is listed in MAME and it goes out of sync when selected (progressive?).

Is there a way to permanently get rid of 31KHz 640x480, or fool windows into using the 15KHz mode instead?

Hm... Some more info would be great.
What kind of monitors? Dual Monitor with a VGA and an Arcade Monitor?
What OS? What kind of gfx card?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: M3d10n on March 24, 2010, 10:57:57 am
I don't know if it's a side effect of using soft15Khz in a dual-monitor setup, but I cannot make MAME use interlaced resolutions. I can set my extended desktop resolution to interlaced 640x480 or 720x480 if I disable the "hide modes not supported by this monitor" in the Window's advanced video settings, but only 720x480 is listed in MAME and it goes out of sync when selected (progressive?).

Is there a way to permanently get rid of 31KHz 640x480, or fool windows into using the 15KHz mode instead?

Hm... Some more info would be great.
What kind of monitors? Dual Monitor with a VGA and an Arcade Monitor?
What OS? What kind of gfx card?
Oops, sorry. I'm running a LCD on DVI and the arcade monitor on VGA, Windows 7 64-bit, ATI HD 4850 (10.2 drivers). All progressive 15KHz resolutions work properly and the interlaced ones are there if I go into Window's "list all modes", but MAME always picks the 31KHz ones instead.

Also, if I manually set the monitor to 15KHz 480i via Windows 7 advanced video options and MAME tries to switch to a different resolution automatically , I get the "failed to create DirectDraw surface" error. But this is probably completely unrelated.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on March 26, 2010, 07:54:16 am
Whats the "new hack" going to introduce?

Actually now there are two...
1. "inputlag"-fix is actually a bruteforce approach to the "input lag" problem. mame now polls twice a frame instead of once.
2. "doublebuff" is the other half of the "new hack". It changes the tripplebuffer to a doublebuffer (and changes the way directdraw handles vsync) which also "could" reduce the input delay.

Its a fact that any form of vsync in MAME causes some slight delay, though I can't really tell why.


As for the S15K topic... Nothing new yet. But some new "stock" modelines will be available for testing soon.
This would be fantastic! Can't wait to see that!  :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Eric_Adapted on March 30, 2010, 09:57:36 am
What is the URL to get the newest Soft15kHz?
I'm using this link http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=9367 (http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=9367)
Which shows build 48, is that the most current software?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: codecrank on March 30, 2010, 03:08:47 pm
FYI, a buddy and I both just setup a mame cabinet using soft15Khz with Nvidia 6xxx/7xxx series cards. It does not work with the latest nvidia drivers.

windows XP + nvidia drivers 93.71  = success

btw those drivers won't works with windows 7.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sosetsuken on March 31, 2010, 04:45:28 am
SailorSat,

(http://home.iprimus.com.au/aphdash/4650.jpg)

Card: Gigabyte HD4650 OC PCI-E ( Model: GV-R465OC-1GI )
Driver: Catalyst 10.3
Result: Works / Funktioniert

Notes: 640x480 better modeline

custom15kHz.txt

Code: [Select]
modeline '640x480' 13,09 640 672 736 836 480 486 489 525 interlace -hsync -vsync
EDIT: I'll be testing a 4890 in a few weeks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 31, 2010, 01:03:08 pm
Nice :)

That reminds me...

ATI Radeon HD5970 ... should be fast enough to render AND emulate pacman on the gpu xD
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sosetsuken on April 02, 2010, 10:16:19 am
Nice :)

That reminds me...

ATI Radeon HD5970 ... should be fast enough to render AND emulate pacman on the gpu xD

LOL.  Probably enough programmable units on the 5970 to emulate a few games in real time ^_^.

Are you getting a 5970?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 02, 2010, 10:43:26 am
Well I got my XHD3000 a few weeks ago and my current GF9600GT is pretty much at its lmits...
But don't have the money for a big card atm.
Guess prices get better once the new GeForce cards hit the markets...

As for some on-topic news :D

The newer NVidia drivers for XP have the safe mode extended to all cards... So to use the new drivers you need a valid EDID source (like the S15K dongle...)

As for now, I'm trying to register as NVidia Developer, but they seem to only accept big bussiness partners ~-~
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: M3d10n on April 02, 2010, 11:39:49 am
SailorSat, did you try using Windows 7 (retail, not the RC) with a Nvidia card? I'm on an ATI, but Windows 7 lists the arcade monitor as an "unknown display device" and offers options to brute force the connection. I don't know if this is particular to ATI drivers or if it's a native Windows 7 feature.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 02, 2010, 03:13:41 pm
Actually I don't have a retail version of Seven yet :)

I'm yet tryting to get the data format right on the nvidia drivers :(

---

Onto something different...
I've completed my modeline calculator and redid the default resolutions.
However I need some feedback as I only have a small number of monitors to test them on.
They work fine on a Commodore 1438s (15-25-31), my Hantarex Polo (15), a Hantarex Polo/2 (25) and on my SCART TV (15).

If anyone is willing to test them... I'm especially insterested if they have the same "size" on every resolution (multisyncs!).


custom15khz.txt
Code: [Select]
# -= 15KHz Progressive =-
modeline '240x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 5,16592 240 264 288 328 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 5,417916 256 280 304 344 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '288x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 6,173904 288 320 352 392 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 6,299902 296 328 360 400 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '304x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 6,551898 304 336 368 416 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '320x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 6,803894 320 352 384 432 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '336x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 7,181888 336 368 400 456 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '368x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 7,811878 368 408 440 496 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '392x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 8,315871 392 432 472 528 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '448x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 9,575851 448 496 544 608 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 10,961829 512 568 616 696 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 13,607788 640 704 768 864 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x256-15,750KHz-55,456Hz' 5,417829 256 280 304 344 256 260 264 284 -hsync -vsync
modeline '320x256-15,750KHz-55,456Hz' 6,803786 320 352 384 432 256 260 264 284 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x256-15,750KHz-55,456Hz' 7,559762 352 392 424 480 256 260 264 284 -hsync -vsync
modeline '400x256-15,750KHz-54,686Hz' 8,567765 400 440 480 544 256 261 266 288 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x264-15,750KHz-54,497Hz' 5,417874 256 280 304 344 264 268 272 289 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x264-15,750KHz-54,497Hz' 7,559824 352 392 424 480 264 268 272 289 -hsync -vsync
modeline '632x264-15,750KHz-54,497Hz' 13,481686 632 696 760 856 264 268 272 289 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x288-15,750KHz-50,808Hz' 7,56023 352 392 424 480 288 291 294 310 -hsync -vsync
modeline '384x288-15,750KHz-50,808Hz' 8,19025 384 424 464 520 288 291 294 310 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x288-15,750KHz-50,808Hz' 10,962334 512 568 616 696 288 291 294 310 -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x288-15,750KHz-50,808Hz' 13,608415 640 704 768 864 288 291 294 310 -hsync -vsync

# -= 15KHz Interlace =-
modeline '512x448-15,750KHz-60iHz' 10,962 512 568 616 696 448 459 470 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline '640x480-15,750KHz-60iHz' 13,608 640 704 768 864 480 486 492 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline '720x480-15,750KHz-60iHz' 15,372 720 792 864 976 480 486 492 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline '512x512-15,750KHz-54,497iHz' 10,961745 512 568 616 696 512 521 530 578 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline '800x600-15,750KHz-50iHz' 17,136 800 880 960 1088 600 604 608 630 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline '1024x600-15,750KHz-50iHz' 21,924 1024 1128 1232 1392 600 604 608 630 -hsync -vsync interlace

# -= remove fake 1024x768 =-
remove 1024x768


custom25khz.txt
Code: [Select]
# -= 25KHz Progressive =-
modeline '496x384-24,960KHz-60Hz' 15,57504 496 512 576 624 384 386 391 416 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x384-24,960KHz-60Hz' 15,9744 512 528 592 640 384 386 391 416 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x400-24,960KHz-57,248Hz' 15,974482 512 528 592 640 400 403 409 436 -hsync -vsync

# -= 25KHz Interlace =-
modeline '1024x768-24,960KHz-60iHz' 31,9488 1024 1048 1176 1280 768 773 783 832 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline '1280x720-24,960KHz-60iHz' 39,936 1280 1312 1472 1600 720 729 746 832 -hsync -vsync interlace


custom31khz.txt
Code: [Select]
# -= 31KHz Progressive =-
modeline '512x448-31,500KHz-60Hz' 19,908 512 520 600 632 448 485 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x480-31,500KHz-60Hz' 24,948 640 648 744 792 480 501 505 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline '720x480-31,500KHz-60Hz' 27,972 720 728 840 888 480 501 505 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x512-31,499KHz-54,497Hz' 19,907536 512 520 600 632 512 543 549 578 -hsync -vsync
modeline '800x600-31,500KHz-50Hz' 31,248 800 816 944 992 600 614 617 630 -hsync -vsync
modeline '1024x600-31,500KHz-50Hz' 39,816 1024 1040 1200 1264 600 614 617 630 -hsync -vsync
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sosetsuken on April 02, 2010, 03:36:24 pm
If anyone is willing to test them... I'm especially insterested if they have the same "size" on every resolution (multisyncs!).

SailorSat, i'll fire up my cab now and test them.  Whats the best way?  Can I just click Uninstall and then add the Custom15khz.txt then click reinstall then reboot? or do i need to reboot between Uninstall and Reinstall?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: M3d10n on April 02, 2010, 06:39:03 pm
They do look all the same size for me. Haven't tried all resolutions, though. However, on my TV they have quite some vertical overscan and a slight horizontal underscan, but I can get around it by tweaking the monitor geometry in the Catalyst control panel (which is only possible when using dual monitors - using the CCC in sub 800x600 resolutions is by all means impossible).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 03, 2010, 03:33:31 pm
Actually this is starting to piss me off...

Seven and NVidia is just a no-go...

So I installed the newest drivers... Fine.
I removed every mode besides 1600x1200 60Hz (testing with an 21" VGA)... Fine.

Boot WITHOUT DDC/EDID... Windows comes up in 1600x1200 (with not other resolution available)... Exactly what should be happening!
Boot WITH the EDID Dongle... Windows comes up in 800x600 50Hz (progressive...) with 640x480 60Hz as alternative... Well... They should be F*CKING interlaced...

(http://images.arianchen.de/temp/seven1.png)
(http://images.arianchen.de/temp/seven2.png)
(http://images.arianchen.de/temp/seven3.png)

I'm willing to go as far as to say NVidias Vista/Seven drivers simple can't go below 31kHz by design.
That really sucks...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: M3d10n on April 04, 2010, 07:27:14 am
Did you check the "List all modes" window? It won't list sub-480 resolutions, but it should list the interlaced resolutions (they show up as 30Hz).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 04, 2010, 12:24:06 pm
Sure I did...

--

Now onto something COMPLETELY different ;)

http://images.arianchen.de/multihead-board.jpg (http://images.arianchen.de/multihead-board.jpg)
http://images.arianchen.de/multihead-desktop.png (http://images.arianchen.de/multihead-desktop.png)
http://images.arianchen.de/multihead-nocomment.jpg (http://images.arianchen.de/multihead-nocomment.jpg)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: I/O on April 04, 2010, 11:02:03 pm
Now onto something COMPLETELY different ;)

http://images.arianchen.de/multihead-board.jpg (http://images.arianchen.de/multihead-board.jpg)
http://images.arianchen.de/multihead-desktop.png (http://images.arianchen.de/multihead-desktop.png)
http://images.arianchen.de/multihead-nocomment.jpg (http://images.arianchen.de/multihead-nocomment.jpg)

What kind of power supply did you need for that?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 05, 2010, 04:54:59 am
Nothing special, a 420W one
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: dapsaille on April 07, 2010, 08:05:53 am
Hi.


 I've got a problem not directly related to soft15khz but this problem won"t let me use it ...

 I explain ..

 I use an Aopen minipc with a 915gml video card ... it seems that there is a LVD connector who is not used ..

 in the facts, if i don"t plug a valid edid source, i've got no video output.. and ,hopefully, my hantarex don'"t provide edid signal ^^


 I've installed IEGD from intel but i don't know where to start ... do i need to create a standard driver minus the audodetection of the monitor or do i need to create a specific 15khz driver ?


 Sorry if this question seems out topic but i must admit that theese kind of questions cannot be asked on a "Gamerz Video Cardz PrOblemz" topic ^^
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 07, 2010, 09:31:59 am
Woa... Are you sure its a LVD connector? More likely to be a DVI one.

As for the problem... Well you could use an EDID dongle so it gets detected.
As for IEGD... I don't know if it is possible to deactivate or force any of the detections.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: MaximRecoil on April 07, 2010, 11:42:26 am
Question for SailorSat:

I have a Radeon 9600 with a component adapter (DVI-I to YPrPb Adapter [Purple, ATI part number 151-V01093]) hooked to a standard resolution TV that only supports 15 KHz resolutions (so 480i is supported over component, but not 480p). I am running 640x432i currently.

I don't use this for emulators; I use it to watch standard resolution video files (~700 MB AVI files with a maximum resolution of 640x480). It looks fine while playing videos, but Windows of course flickers severely.

I was wondering how things would look at say 640x240p (60 Hz). Would Soft-15KHz make it possible for me to use that resolution over component?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: M3d10n on April 07, 2010, 11:53:42 am
Question for SailorSat:

I have a Radeon 9600 with a component (YPbPr) adapter hooked to a standard resolution TV that only supports 15 KHz resolutions (so 480i is supported over component, but not 480p). I am running 640x432i currently.

I don't use this for emulators; I use it to watch standard resolution video files (~700 MB AVI files with a maximum resolution of 640x480). It looks fine while playing videos, but Windows of course flickers severely.

I was wondering how things would look at say 640x240p (60 Hz). Would Soft-15KHz make it possible for me to use that resolution over component?
Nope. The video card's own TV-out port is controlled completely by the GPU driver. It will always take whatever resolution you feed into it and resize it to display in 480i or 480p (depending on your settings).

I don't know if it works for the 9600, but in my HD 4850 I found a trick to enable the "interlaced anti-flicker" over component:

1) Go into the catalyst control panel;
2) Disable the component-out and enable composite-out;
3) Go into the composite display options and turn the flicker removal to maximum;
4) Now disable composite and re-enable component. The flicker removal will continue turned on.

This will give you as much of a flicker free image as you can get (similar to hooking up a DVD player).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 07, 2010, 12:09:35 pm
Don't know for sure.
AS far as I know, the 9000 series DVI-Component Dongle does support Soft-15kHz.
But I have never tested that, as I don't own such a dongle :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: MaximRecoil on April 07, 2010, 01:05:49 pm
I don't know if it works for the 9600, but in my HD 4850 I found a trick to enable the "interlaced anti-flicker" over component:

1) Go into the catalyst control panel;
2) Disable the component-out and enable composite-out;
3) Go into the composite display options and turn the flicker removal to maximum;
4) Now disable composite and re-enable component. The flicker removal will continue turned on.

This will give you as much of a flicker free image as you can get (similar to hooking up a DVD player).

Thanks, I'll have to try that.

I have another idea too; one that — if it would work — would turn any CRT TV with component inputs into a pseudo arcade monitor capable of running true native arcade resolutions, but it would require spending $120:

Using an ArcadeVGA video card, or Soft-15KHz with a normal video card, and get an Audio Authority Model 9A60 VGA to Component Video Transcoder (http://www.audioauthority.com/product_details/9A60). This device passes the video signal timings through unaltered; the only thing it does is a conversion from RGB to YPbPr.

I've never tested that idea out of course (maybe someone else has), but if it would work, I would think that it would be as good as you can get for running emulators on a component-input TV; because of being able to use native resolutions such as 256 x 240 @ 60Hz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 07, 2010, 01:20:39 pm
Hm.. The JROK converter is only 81$ :)

http://www.gatorcade.com/rgbconverter.html (http://www.gatorcade.com/rgbconverter.html)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: M3d10n on April 07, 2010, 01:48:16 pm
Hm.. The JROK converter is only 81$ :)

http://www.gatorcade.com/rgbconverter.html (http://www.gatorcade.com/rgbconverter.html)
I am using a RGB->S-video one myself (it was $20). I'd love component, but not for that price.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: MaximRecoil on April 07, 2010, 01:49:37 pm
Hm.. The JROK converter is only 81$ :)

http://www.gatorcade.com/rgbconverter.html (http://www.gatorcade.com/rgbconverter.html)

That one encodes to NTSC video though, which is no different than what a video card with component TV-out does by default. The idea behind the Audio Authority device is that it changes nothing aside from the color space; so if you feed it e.g., 256 x 240 @ 60 Hz RGB, that's exactly what you'll get out, except it will be YPbPr.

Quote
The 9A60 is not a format converter nor is it a scaler. It passes the horizontal and vertical synchronization timings and pixel content to the outputs without modification. For example, a 1080i RGBHV source with a 9A60 will require your HDTV monitor to accept a 1080i YPbPr component video input. Generally, 1080i, 720p and 480p sources, such as set top boxes, may be displayed on monitors designed for the desired format, using the 9A60. However, some combinations of sources and televisions may produce undesired display artifacts or fail to work at all.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: M3d10n on April 07, 2010, 02:36:48 pm
That one encodes to NTSC video though, which is no different than what a video card with component TV-out does by default. The idea behind the Audio Authority device is that it changes nothing aside from the color space; so if you feed it e.g., 256 x 240 @ 60 Hz RGB, that's exactly what you'll get out, except it will be YPbPr.
Just by looking at it I don't think so. It doesn't look like it has enough circuitry to convert resolution. In fact, It looks *very* similar to the RGB->S-Video one I have (except the YPbPr out), and mine is unable of changing resolutions (it merely converts the color signal).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: MaximRecoil on April 07, 2010, 03:06:19 pm
Just by looking at it I don't think so. It doesn't look like it has enough circuitry to convert resolution. In fact, It looks *very* similar to the RGB->S-Video one I have (except the YPbPr out), and mine is unable of changing resolutions (it merely converts the color signal).

I'm just going by what it claims to do, which is:

"This device is designed to take the Red, Green, Blue and synchronization signals from an video arcade game board and convert them into a NTSC video signal."

Maybe they are playing fast and loose with the term "NTSC".

If all it does is a color space conversion, then it should work fine for what I'm talking about. However, overall it would not be as versatile as the Audio Authority device, because that one can work with any type of RGBHV signal (not limited to 15 KHz signals); so you could also use it to send an HD signal to an HDTV.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: dapsaille on April 08, 2010, 04:14:44 am
Woa... Are you sure its a LVD connector? More likely to be a DVI one.

As for the problem... Well you could use an EDID dongle so it gets detected.
As for IEGD... I don't know if it is possible to deactivate or force any of the detections.

 Thanks for your reply ...

 this hardware is a bit specific .. if no display is attached the output is not activated , like a laptop ..

 Anyway, i've successfully build a intel driver without audodetection ... need to deploy it and test it with soft15k

 Do you think that the core i3 intel graphic chip may be compatible with  your soft ? or is there is any chance that it will be in a near future ?

 I ask that because miniitx core i3 is really cute and inexpensive (in term of size of course) and it could be a perfect 15k base ..

 And many many thanks for this good piece of software and your support  :applaud:

EDIT = no way .. my j-pac doesn't sync at 15k .... i've got the 5 resolutions  settings in quickres (240x240 256x240 256x256 256x264 288x240) but no sync ..

 do you have any idea ? may i use a tool to send a debug report or do i need to throw this minipc in my garden  :laugh: ?

 it is so cute ... snirfff
 (http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:3VLMImc1f24IKM:http://www.home-server-blog.de/wp-content/uploads/SehrkleinrechtguenstigundperfektalsHomeS_DAFC/aopen2.jpg)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 08, 2010, 04:23:13 am
We'll see :)
Do you have a link to the specific drivers? Then I look into it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: dapsaille on April 08, 2010, 04:38:50 am
We'll see :)
Do you have a link to the specific drivers? Then I look into it.

 Which driver would you like to have ? the modified without autodetection or the i3 graphic driver ?

(i've edited my previous post)


 As you can see on the picture there is only a dvi output and a s-video output ...

 but the problem is that on the motherboard there is a lvd connector .. so the official driver switch to "notebook" drivers .. so no go for official, need to use a specific driver without autodetection or my jpac does'nt get any signal

EDIT = here is the modified Intel driver without autodetection : http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1F1O99WF (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1F1O99WF)

With this driver my jpac got a signal under windows but no 15khz :/
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: cobrakai22 on April 10, 2010, 04:01:28 pm
I just got in a Jpac for my new astro city 15khz-24khz cabinet. Im trying to hook it up to my Mac via bootcamp windows XP (Nvidia 9400M).

I installed 15khz when the arcade monitor was plugged into the JPAC, restarted and tried to change resoloutions to a lower resoloution, no luck.

I downloaded quickres and powerstrip, with quickres i can only change resoloutions on my computer screen not the arcade monitor.

On powerstrip i tinkered with custom resolutions and i got the 31khz split screen mode, but when i open mame it dosen't sync to 15khz.

Is this just because my card isn't able to do 15khz or is there suppose to be lower resolutions than 640x480 somewhere in the display preferences?

My main question is how in the perfect situation do you know that it switches 15khz,  or where do you go to change it to 15khz?

Also if you do hook up a regular pc how do you configure things normally, do you have to keep switching between monitors so you can see what you are doing?

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 10, 2010, 04:23:34 pm
Usually I use VNC to check whats happening...

So to get it right... you've installed XP on your mac, and now you have two monitors connected?
I don't know if that even can work.

To use quickres on the seconds screen, try http://files.arianchen.de/soft15khz/quickres2.zip (http://files.arianchen.de/soft15khz/quickres2.zip)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: cobrakai22 on April 10, 2010, 04:49:45 pm
Its a macbook pro so I have the minidisplay port to VGA adapter, then the VGA goes to the Jpac.

I have had 31khz running on the windows mode so I can see the desktop but its split in half on the arcade monitor.

The green sync light comes on the Jpac, but if I take the 31khz clip on the jpac I dont get a green sync light for 15khz

Soft15khz installed so it should be available right?


On a separate note:

How do you do things if you have a computer tower plugged to the arcade monitor and you only get the 2 split screens, or how do you even go and change the resolution if the monitor is blank because your not in the right resolution?

Im just tryna figure if I have to get a pc for this how do you access launching mame etc if you cant see whats going on a separate monitor?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on April 12, 2010, 05:03:59 am
Onto something different...
I've completed my modeline calculator and redid the default resolutions.
However I need some feedback as I only have a small number of monitors to test them on.
They work fine on a Commodore 1438s (15-25-31), my Hantarex Polo (15), a Hantarex Polo/2 (25) and on my SCART TV (15).

If anyone is willing to test them... I'm especially insterested if they have the same "size" on every resolution (multisyncs!).
Hi Sailor, why did you do these new modelines?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 12, 2010, 07:59:26 am
Well I did them because I can ;)
No seriously. Some useres mentioned that the image on multisyncs needs to be adjusted after every resolution change. I've tried to compensate with exakt the same timings.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on April 12, 2010, 10:04:42 am
If I have a standard 15KHz monitor can I get any benefit from these modelines?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: commander on April 12, 2010, 02:50:06 pm
Hey cobrakai22, i have a Qosmio x305 with a 9700M GTS (HDMI and VGA port) dual boot Windows 7 and Windows XP.
Under Windows 7 Soft15khz didnt work but under Windows XP it worked fine with the exception of interlaced resolutions i ran it in clone mode(well thats the only way i could get it to run) displaying to the notebook LCD and to the scart tv through the vga port. I hope that helps.

By the way SailorSat in 640 x 480 i get a split unsynced image is it possible to add a modeline to get it to work or is it a limitation in the video card.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 13, 2010, 12:38:27 am
Maybe you have a safe mode problem. However if all other resolutions work... Don't really know.
Never tried a current notebook :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on April 18, 2010, 01:04:03 pm
Sailor, here's a useful 31khz modeline for people with multisyncs/31khz monitors:

modeline "680x512@60p" 27.27 680 696 768 856 512 513 516 531 -hsync +vsync

This allows pixel-perfect display of Tron/APB/Toobin/Satan's Hallow.  I've tested this on a WG9400.

Also, what is the use of the 'square' resolutions (256x256, 512x512)? I've never seen a single game that they look correct on?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tony.silveira on April 19, 2010, 09:40:39 pm
hi all,

i'm new to soft 15, please be gentle.  i installed from some advice on here for the following issue i was having.

i have this betson imperial multi synch monitor:

http://www.betson.com/products/IMP-44-4070-RT (http://www.betson.com/products/IMP-44-4070-RT)

i also have my image mirrored to my projector.  the arcade monitor will only do 800x600 where as i prefer running on my projector, 1024x768.  this was making me switch res depending on what screen i was using.  so, soft 15 to the rescue.

i installed it and now 1024x768 shows on my arcade machine.  the issue is that i have to use the mouse to scroll up/down to see the edges of the screen.  this wouldn't be a big deal except it's also doing it in emu's.

i's like to be able to set up all my emu's to run 1024x768 but is there a way to "shrink" the vertical so that the whole screen is visible without scrolling up/down?

many thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 20, 2010, 01:20:30 am
Wow that site doesn't say anything on the details :D

What is the maximum frequency your monitor will do? like 35kHz?
800x600 doesn't say much (though I can assume it will do 35khz)


As for your question. Well not by default.

You could try with the following mode...
(open usermodes.txt, then past the modeline in, save, start soft-15khz, hit install USER, reboot)
modeline '1024x768-35,0kHz-84,034Hz' 44,24 1024 1048 1208 1264 768 784 800 833 -hsync -vsync interlace

Then you should have 1024x768 interlaced at 85Hz
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tony.silveira on April 20, 2010, 03:26:26 pm
EDIT: never mind, i figured it out, thank you for your help!

now i just need to figure out why some emu's are still behaving the way i mentioned, vertical is to big.



hey sailor,

i'll try the mode line you suggested, but, where is the "usermodes.txt" file located?  fyi, i currently have the soft 15 app in it's own folder on my desktop and there is no txt file in there.

fyi2, from my monitors user manual:

Bandwidth Maximum 50MHz
Scanning Frequency
(Auto Scanning)
Horizontal
Vertical
15-40KHz
50-120Hz


thank you for the help!


Wow that site doesn't say anything on the details :D

What is the maximum frequency your monitor will do? like 35kHz?
800x600 doesn't say much (though I can assume it will do 35khz)


As for your question. Well not by default.

You could try with the following mode...
(open usermodes.txt, then past the modeline in, save, start soft-15khz, hit install USER, reboot)
modeline '1024x768-35,0kHz-84,034Hz' 44,24 1024 1048 1208 1264 768 784 800 833 -hsync -vsync interlace

Then you should have 1024x768 interlaced at 85Hz
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 21, 2010, 02:16:22 am
Okay. Now we can do our homework :)

First of all, scrap the usermodes.txt
Now add a "custom31khz.txt"

Add...
Code: [Select]
remove 1024,768
modeline '1024x768-40,0kHz-50,0Hz' 50,56 1024 1048 1208 1264 768 776 784 800 -hsync -vsync

Then start soft15kHz, hit uninstall, hit install 15, install 25 and install 31khz.

After that you should have a progressive 1024x768 at 50Hz (seen in windows as 60hz).
And your Emus should run fine in fullscreen, though vsync will limit you to 50hz.

If you need true 60Hz you will have to go the interlace way and 25kHz, though I don't know if you projector can handle that.
Title: ATI Radeon X550 & WG K7000 Monitor, no 640x480
Post by: Chunce DeLeone on April 26, 2010, 07:31:22 pm
Got an ATI Radeon X550 catalyst 6.5 trying to run mamed Starwars on a WG K7000 Arcade Monitor with Soft 15k installed the picture is blurry.  Take a different PC running a Radeon 9200 card to the K7000 running starwars and its perfect.  Do you think the X550 is the problem and I should replace the vid card, or is this where mode lines help?  If so what is the most compatible card on the market in a reasonable price range?     Also i checked the desktop rez on the PC with the Radeon 9200 card and it was 640x480x16 and running perfect clear on the wg k7000, i then hooked up the pc running  the x550 and quickres'd 640x480x16 and it was that same blurry.  This is what makes me think the card can't do that rez.  Is that the reason or is there something i can do with the software to fix that.  And the reason i don't just use the other pc is because both pc's are being used on two separate cabs and this one i want to have the higher horsepower, which has the x550 and could use better vid card anyway.  What's a good card to throw in there and will that fix all the problems?  
would this work? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125251 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125251)
or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102877 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102877)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 27, 2010, 01:10:51 am
I never had any issues like that.
If a card can't do the mode, you wouldn't see any picture at all.

As for a new card, I've used HD4350 in the past and they work great.
The HD5450 should work too, but I've not tested them yet.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Chunce DeLeone on April 27, 2010, 08:42:07 am
Thanks SailorSat,


If i go with the 4350 what catalyst drivers work the best?  

Also I have been reading up on modelines.  I think what determines what modelines you put in is the monitor, am i right and if so what are good modelines for the WG K7000?  Is there a place where I can download prewritten modelines for specific monitors?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 27, 2010, 08:57:36 am
The stock modelines are fine for 99.9% of all monitors.

Some gfx cards have problems with one ore two stock modelines (mostly nvidia though).

Modelines for "special" cases exist, say an Atari 2600 modeline (160x260 60Hz) or for multisync monitors.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Chunce DeLeone on April 27, 2010, 09:14:10 am
Cool i gotcha, im a little slow with this stuff,.....so i'm looking at the vid cards you have tested and wanted to know which one you think is the best, the one that will require little if any tweaking,

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125253 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125253)

this one below is nice and cheap and what im looking for but not sure if it matches the one you tested on page four on 21-03-2009, 02:24 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121310&cm_re=ATI_Radeon_HD4350-_-14-121-310-_-Product (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121310&cm_re=ATI_Radeon_HD4350-_-14-121-310-_-Product)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125277&Tpk=ati%20radeon%20hd4670 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125277&Tpk=ati%20radeon%20hd4670)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125253&cm_re=radeon_4650-_-14-125-253-_-Product (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125253&cm_re=radeon_4650-_-14-125-253-_-Product)

Does it matter who makes the card, if its a 4350 will it work whether its made by saphire or Gigabyte? 



Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 27, 2010, 09:43:15 am
No it does'nt matter.
The chip itself is the same. Only memory type/size/speed differs.
Also the drivers are the same. So basically you can't do anything wrong.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Chunce DeLeone on April 27, 2010, 10:10:27 am
Sweeeeet!  thats great news....My wallet just smiled,  i'm about to pull the trigger if you have time just let me know what you think about this one card.  I think i can buy this and it will go under the wife-radar and even if it is caught its not that crazy, also the only pc game i really would want to play is the EA sports games like tiger, nhl, virtua tennis and any version will do, not looking to Doom3 in 7.1 with face melting sprites all over.....

anyway this looks like a good one, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125251&cm_re=radeon_4350-_-14-125-251-_-Product (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125251&cm_re=radeon_4350-_-14-125-251-_-Product)

i can't help it one more or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102867&Tpk=radeon%204350 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102867&Tpk=radeon%204350)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Chunce DeLeone on April 27, 2010, 12:32:00 pm
I was just reading some stuff about the x550 and it seems that this is the chipset in the Avga.  So maybee i just have the wrong drivers.  I have been using 6.5 catalyst, does anyone know what the best drivers are to use with a ATI X550 chipset?  

Also i have been reading this thread and things i've noticed that i need to check before buying a new card:  1. I didn't use the latest soft15k 2.  i installed 15 25 and 32 resolutions eventhough my monitor only takes 15k.  I need to undo those things and see if my problems persist.  Also gonna try different drivers, some new some old 6.1 6.5 10.2 and 9.12


Later in the night everything is working!!  just uninstalled soft15k, re-installed the newest version and didn't install the 25k and 32k resolutions and it works.  One problem is that at 640x480 my desktop is a little overscanned, how can i fix that and should i if everything else is working.  Golden tee and other games like that i could not find a good resolution for yet.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 28, 2010, 03:19:48 am
As for the overscan problem...
Well, arcade monitors were made with running one game at a time in mind.
Usually the operator would install a new game, then adjust the monitor to match it.

As sad as it is, every single monitor behaves a little different.
If you maximize 240 (and 480) line modes, you most like will "cut off" 256 and 288 line modes.

I'd recommend start at 320x240 and then try other resolutions, reduze the size if you have overscan, and continue on. Your "final" setting should allow you to run every resolution with small borders but everything visible.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Chunce DeLeone on April 28, 2010, 08:39:01 am
Cool, i will try that and i found some custom mode lines for GT from you in here, i will try adding those to the soft15k as well. 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 28, 2010, 08:56:07 am
You shouldn't need one.
The first runs in 256x240 and the later ones in 384x256, both are stock modelines.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Chunce DeLeone on April 29, 2010, 08:16:12 am
I tried a bunch of resolutions, not all, for GT and SHST and couldn't get a good one.  Could be doing something worng, going to check again.  I want to try 640x432 but that rez is not showing up in Quickrez or list all modes in windows.  Is there a way to add that rezolution to my card with a modeline?  Why isn't it there already? 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 29, 2010, 10:46:19 am
Where did you read about that resolution? Most likely it is not there because 640x480 will be fine. On the other hand thats not even a standard resolution anyway.

Possible to add it is...
But not set any resolution yourself you should...
Let MAME select the correct resolution.
Except for Galaga/Frogger based hardware that should work fine.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Chunce DeLeone on April 29, 2010, 12:13:23 pm
I got 640x432 from other areas of this forum, namely gettting a tv to work with mame, and 640x432 is less overscanned than 640x480 for a desktop.  but you are right that is niether here nor there, mame will choose the best rez, and now that im thinking about it I 99% sure i was wroking in the wrong ini, so i will re-try everything hopefully tonight again.  FYI the rez that MAME chooses for GT and SHST makes the bottom scrunched with a bright white line at the very bottom, SF looked the same way until i tried a rez that you suggested, now all is perfect.  Jsut need to try the rez that you suggested for GT and shst and make sure im in the right ini.   
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tony.silveira on May 04, 2010, 12:28:13 am
yikes!

it seems the new norton update has killed the soft15.exe app.  i went to play around with it a bit and it was gone.  i downloaded from this topic and as soon as it's done, it gets quarantined.

god i hate norton
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 04, 2010, 01:54:57 am
http://www.precisesecurity.com/threats/virus/suspicious-emit/ (http://www.precisesecurity.com/threats/virus/suspicious-emit/)

OMG! A encrypted file! Must be a virus!!!!
(wtf?!)

I'll upload it again without upx encryption later today...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: enter on May 04, 2010, 12:26:28 pm
Hi Sailor, quick question for you if you get a minute. I was using soft15khz in a cab with a 19" WG, and a radeon x1650pro pci-e. Everything looked sweet, no flicker whatsoever, smooth bright & colourful graphics. However, I have since sold that cab and transplanted the pc into my other cab which has a 25" Hantarex Polo mk1.

Now its more or less running the same, except that Im getting fairly heavy flickering. I know windows will generally do this, but its happening during games too which is wasnt doing on the 19" screen. I havnt touched resolutions yet, its running at 640x480 @ 60hz according to windows.

Can you offer any advice?

Cheers
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 04, 2010, 12:39:12 pm
@tony.silveira:
I've reuploaded the stuff without UPX encryption.

@enter:
Are you sure you let MAME switch resolutions as needed?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: enter on May 04, 2010, 04:23:59 pm
Thanks for the reply SailorSat - yep Mame is set for autochanging the resolution. Like I say, I havnt changed a signle thing software wise...Ive just moved the pc from one cab ot the next. I have a feeling its not Mame related though, as even the windows desktop flickers a lot more than than it did on the 19" screen. Im using the drivers you have suggested on the "compatability" thread, would it be worth updating the drivers?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on May 05, 2010, 09:31:00 am
http://www.precisesecurity.com/threats/virus/suspicious-emit/ (http://www.precisesecurity.com/threats/virus/suspicious-emit/)

OMG! A encrypted file! Must be a virus!!!!
(wtf?!)
lol!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Chunce DeLeone on May 05, 2010, 12:18:18 pm
Just a follow-up i had forgotten about D3d for GT/Shufshot games with all this resolution searching,  I know that goes against what we are trying to do here but for those few games that is what i am going to use, just to get them going. 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: enter on May 05, 2010, 03:02:13 pm
Never mind SailorSat, a guy from okatu game me a custom modeline switch to add (which you gave him  :applaud:)- seems to have done the job, cheers.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: aureo1e on May 06, 2010, 05:50:32 am
Got it working with my (unknown) Hantarex and an (old) GeForce4 MX 440 card.  Many thanks for producing and supporting this!

Most games work fine in MAME - I'd forgotten to set the switchres and disable HW scaling and bezels.  But: I seem to have a scaled down Robotron still - like it's doing the bezel stuff but the bezel isn't displayed?  Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 06, 2010, 08:44:01 am
iirc
some mame.ini settings

artwork_crop              1
use_backdrops             0
use_overlays              1
use_bezels                0
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: hooperjaws on May 14, 2010, 08:44:28 pm
Hi SailorSat - can I say a big thank-you firstly for making this software! Using this software I have been able to hook up a PC to my Jamma Cab and play my fave games like Bubble Bobble and Pacland with realistic graphics. Awesome!
I DID get some sound glitches with games, which was annoying, but reading this thread I also discovered you are the author of cabmame hacks (patches) and have since complied cabmame and now my games look, play and SOUND great. Much MUCH respect to you!
My cabinet has a Hantarex Polo. The documents suggest it can work in 25khz - but the two extra modes added via "install 25" didnt seem to work. Im not that bothered, but it would have been nice to play rampage without interlace. Generally, I cant really use the interlace modes at 15khz. This is a shame, because I would have liked my front end (Mala) to be in a nice pretty resolution. For some reason, the interlace is very very jumpy. The two frames seem to be "out" by a line or two - its almost as if frame one is where frame two should be, and vice versa. The screen on windows / mala is barely readable, you kinda have to navigate your way through mala config menus using memory..
Do you have any advice for getting interlace working "properly". I assume it should be able to work ok in theory, as when my machine boots up, the xp boot screen is clearly in interlace (although in 31khz, dual-screen as "featured" by the J-pac ;-)
Is there a magical modeline out there that could "swap" the interlace frame order..?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 15, 2010, 06:13:33 am
As for the interlace field order. No that can't be swaped :( at least I dont know how.

As for the Polo. There are several kinds of polos.
MOST Polos only do 15khz, SOME Polos can beswitched between 15 an 25 by hand.
The Polo2 does auto switch between.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ac3 on May 19, 2010, 05:04:00 pm
Does anyone know if Soft15khz works with S3 UniChrome Pro integrated graphics (onboard)?.

Answered my own question, it's not possible to install Soft15khz using S3 UniChrome onboard graphics.  :'(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on May 24, 2010, 08:35:20 am
Salior a news on CAbmame 138?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: jimmy2x2x on June 01, 2010, 08:20:35 am
Hi, I have hacked a VGA to SCART cable together and I am experiencing sync issues with soft15k

Windows xp sp3
GeForce 6200 AGP with 197.45 WHQL drivers
Panasonic Quintrix RGB capable TV (confirmed 50/60hz)

I have installed soft15 with 15khz options only, set the resolution to 640x480 then rebooted

When I change the res with quickres, my LCD goes out of range (as expected) I switch over to the TV and the picture isnt synced at all on most resolutions, however I can almost get a stable image with a res of 288 vertical (512x288 for example) These resolutions have a solid horizontal sync, but scroll up the screen.

Any ideas on what the problem can be?

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 01, 2010, 08:39:58 am
Did you connect both vga pin 13 and pin 14? Sounds like you only connected pin 13 (hsync).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: jimmy2x2x on June 01, 2010, 05:42:27 pm
I have the cable wired just like this http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=77370.0 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=77370.0)

Stripped the cable and re soldered, still the same
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 02, 2010, 01:08:00 am
Well... You need to connect VGA Pin 14 to SCART Pin 20 as your card does NOT output composite sync but rather seperate h- and v-sync.

You could also combine VGA Pin 13 and Pin 14, and use only one wire to Scart Pin 20
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: jimmy2x2x on June 02, 2010, 08:36:12 am
Well... You need to connect VGA Pin 14 to SCART Pin 20 as your card does NOT output composite sync but rather seperate h- and v-sync.

You could also combine VGA Pin 13 and Pin 14, and use only one wire to Scart Pin 20

That did the trick, you only had to say it twice lol!

Thank you so much for all your effort (and patience) with the project, very much appreciated

I now have glorious RGB low res heaven ;)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: dmarcum99 on June 02, 2010, 02:14:44 pm
Hi Sailor!!

I have four questions...I apologize in advance if I seem green.  I have tried to figure it out, but I've confused myself even more.   :dizzy:

I'm using a NEC XM29 monitor for my cab.  I have a motherboard with the ATI 4200 IGP and I also have a Radeon 9200SE PCI card.  My cab is running 32bit XP.

1)  Which of my graphics cards would be best for my monitor for native resolutions?  The cab is strictly a daphne & mame cab......
2)  I hear talk about pixel clock and some cards can't go low enough for some native resolutions.  How do I find the pixel clock of my GPU's without using linux? 
3)  Outside of the AVGA, is there an "ultimate" video card that I should look for using my monitor if the sole purpose is for mame and native resolutions?
4)  Would I benefit using any special modelines for mame since I'm using the NEC XM29?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: kyoke on June 03, 2010, 01:49:12 am
Are the triad png files gone? They appear to be unavailable at the provided.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 03, 2010, 06:42:29 am
Looks like it...
Well :) I've reuploaded the stuff

http://images.arianchen.de/?x=filter (http://images.arianchen.de/?x=filter)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: jimmy2x2x on June 03, 2010, 01:41:02 pm
Do I need to add interlaced modelines to my custom15khz.txt to use resolutions greater than 640x288 on my rig? (see sig)

I have soft15k installed with 15k options, created a custom15khz.txt removed a few resolutions that don't work for me, what's the next step to get higher resolutions than 640x288?

Many thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 03, 2010, 02:30:48 pm
640x480 and 800x600 should work right out of the box
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: jimmy2x2x on June 03, 2010, 02:40:15 pm
640x480 gives me a side by side image (display is repeated twice horizontally)
800x600 is similar but unreadable

edit:

It looks like 800x600 is outputting at 31hkz as this res displays on my lcd
640x480 seems to be outputting at 15khz

2nd edit:

Should interlace modes show as 640x480i in quickres? mine doesnt have the i
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: jimmy2x2x on June 03, 2010, 08:25:09 pm
Managed to get 640x480i working

I installed powerstrip, set the 640x480i (arcade) setting

does anyone know the modeline for this setting, or how I can extract it from the registry?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: kyoke on June 03, 2010, 09:27:03 pm
Thanks Sailor!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: orchidius on June 04, 2010, 05:35:44 pm
Hi there,

After looking into what type of monitor I would be using in my first cabinet, I went with a RGB SCART cable on a normal CRT tv since I'm Belgian (Europe). I made the cable and gave it a first go without the Soft-15KHz program. It did give me some image, but it was flickering like mad (I presume due to the lack of the Soft-15KHz program). So I got the program on my normal desktop, put it on a USB stick and plugged it into my future cab computer... The program did run from the USB (as it did with all other computers around the house), but it didn't give me any options whatsoever... I tried running the program from the stick on some other computers around the house and there it did give me some options. Below a link to the graph. card on the cab-comp (ASUS EAX600PRO) and a screenshot of the "problem".

http://www.pricerunner.co.uk/pi/37-217488/Graphics-Cards/ASUS-EAX600PRO-TD-Radeon-X600-Pro-128MB-DDR-PCI-E-DVI-TV-OUT-Product-Info (http://www.pricerunner.co.uk/pi/37-217488/Graphics-Cards/ASUS-EAX600PRO-TD-Radeon-X600-Pro-128MB-DDR-PCI-E-DVI-TV-OUT-Product-Info)

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/3844/soft15khzasuseax600pro.jpg (http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/3844/soft15khzasuseax600pro.jpg)

Any ideas on this one?

Thanks a bunch!!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 05, 2010, 04:39:39 am
I don't know why, but it looks like you didn't install any driver for the gfx card Oo...

You give Catalyst 6.5 (http://files.arianchen.de/drivers/6-5_xp-2k_dd_32464.exe) a try.

*EDIT* Yay! Page 47 xD
Is there a size limit to a thread?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: orchidius on June 05, 2010, 05:57:13 am
Everything is working properly on the computer... So it should have some drivers installed, right? (I did format the whole thing though, so any previously installed drives have been deleted...).

As far as the catalyst thingy goes --> Server umgezogen ;)

Should I try to get all recent drivers for the graph card and try again?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 05, 2010, 06:05:48 am
Oops... wrong url :X
Fixed it :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: orchidius on June 05, 2010, 12:41:30 pm
Ok, first off, let me thank you for your accurate troubleshooting... Installing the missing driver was indeed the solution of my first problem! That of course implies that there's a second one...

Here's the deal: I installed the driver, launched the program again and clicked "install 15khz". So far so good. On the left halve of the screen I had the choice between 2 drivers (I think it were drivers, since I didn't had the option to select either one before installing the driver). Both had the same name as my graph card : ASUS EAX600PRO and ASUS EAX600PRO secondary.

After clicking "install 15khz" I closed everything, hooked my computer to my (50hz) tv with my selfmade VGA/SCART cable and rebooted the pc.

The tv automatically tuned to the right channel (as it's supposed to), and displayed the computer booting up. The screen it showed me was clearly the bootup screen, but nowhere near readable. It looks like a combination of the following 2 video's:

Mamecab video problem (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8Zm33oVvpk&feature=related#)

and

Soft15khz Intel 945 Not Synced (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2OQsKL4QOQ&NR=1#)

I then tried installing all 3 resolutions in soft15khz (15khz, 25khz, 31khz). Same problem. Also tried one at a time --> same problem.

Any ideas? :s
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on June 05, 2010, 01:06:56 pm
*EDIT* Yay! Page 47 xD
Is there a size limit to a thread?

cheesecake thread is at 87 pages, so you have a while to go
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: I/O on June 05, 2010, 03:33:55 pm
Two threads for this would be good. One with technical information in it, another for discussion. Then a custodian to sort out useful material from the latter to include in the TI thread. Any volunteers?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: jimmy2x2x on June 05, 2010, 05:32:11 pm
I then tried installing all 3 resolutions in soft15khz (15khz, 25khz, 31khz). Same problem. Also tried one at a time --> same problem.

Any ideas? :s


I had a very similar issue, I built my own cable BUT had it wired wrong for my card.

This is sailors advice that worked for me

"Well... You need to connect VGA Pin 14 to SCART Pin 20 as your card does NOT output composite sync but rather seperate h- and v-sync.

You could also combine VGA Pin 13 and Pin 14, and use only one wire to Scart Pin 20"

Which is different to the first wiring diagram show in the scart thread.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: orchidius on June 06, 2010, 01:48:20 am
Oh boy...

I glued the whole thing together to make sure it's all isolated (lots of little wires VERY close to eachother)... Hope I can crack it open!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: jimmy2x2x on June 06, 2010, 01:49:58 am
This may not be the problem, but it was for me - maybe best to wait for sailor ;)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: orchidius on June 06, 2010, 04:42:40 am
Too late... I started fidling with the glue, accidentally broke 1 connection, cursed loudly and cut the whole cable off... I'll be starting over following your guidelines :p

If sailor has got anything to add before I get behind the soldering iron once more, please do!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: orchidius on June 06, 2010, 07:54:02 am
Recap:

Move the brown wire (SCART 20 to 13) to VGA pin 14 like in the picture below. Or split it up and make it go to 13 ànd 14?

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9716/naamloosi.jpg (http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9716/naamloosi.jpg)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: jimmy2x2x on June 06, 2010, 08:25:13 am
OK, looking at that diagram - leave everything alone except the broken brown line

the broken brown line should connect pin 14 on the VGA (your black arrow) to pin 20 on the scart (same place as the solid brown line goes to)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: orchidius on June 06, 2010, 12:15:03 pm
Like this?

http://img580.imageshack.us/content_round.php?page=done&l=img580/4853/naamloosd.jpg&via=mupload (http://img580.imageshack.us/content_round.php?page=done&l=img580/4853/naamloosd.jpg&via=mupload)

Just tried this (booting up pc with Soft15khz) and didn't work... same problem.

Also, do you run your pc at 15khz with this cable? Or at 25 or at 31?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 06, 2010, 12:58:07 pm
15khz only.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: orchidius on June 06, 2010, 01:37:09 pm
So you're suggesting that the above setup should work when using 15khz and 640x480 resolution?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 06, 2010, 02:17:38 pm
Yup.
Should work like a charm.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: orchidius on June 06, 2010, 02:42:09 pm
 :-\

Things are still looking exactly the same as before  ???

Anything else that is worth giving a shot? Could it be TV related? Graph card related? Software related?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: jimmy2x2x on June 06, 2010, 05:13:44 pm
Just noticed that you say your tv is 50hz, is it 60hz compatible?

Did you install soft15khz on both adapters?


Another odd issue I had:

I had big problems with 640x480 res, it wouldnt work for me in 15khz with the default settings
I also had issues when connecting a second monitor to the second port on my vga card.

This is the way that I got it all to work.

unplug arcade monitor (or tv) and plug in a normal monitor
Install VNC server on the target machine (the one I want to run soft15khz), ensure that this works unattended and autoloads (service mode)
Install VNC viewer on another PC on my network
uninstall soft15khz from all adapters
uninstall video drivers
power down target pc
unplug normal monitor and plug in arcade monitor (or tv)
power up target pc
use VNC to install graphics drivers reboot when prompted
set resolution to 640x480
install soft15khz on all available adapters (mine only shows 1 adapter at this point as only 1 monitor has been attached to the target pc)
reboot target pc
if the screen is still rolling after reboot (mine was) use quickres via VNC to try out some of the lower resolutions (these worked for me)
at this point I could run 99% of all low resolutions upto 640x288
for me I had to install powerstrip and install the 640x480i arcade resolution to get a stable 640x480 res on my monitor
The VNC option is very useful for tweaking the size and position of all resolutions as it allows you to see a stable image on the viewer pc even if the target screen is unreadable

This may or may not work for you, but its how I solved it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: orchidius on June 07, 2010, 08:45:14 am
I suspect that it's related to the tv itself. I moved the whole setup to my friend's house, measured everything out again and booted the pc. This time I only got a black screen (tv shutting down to protect itself?). Both tv's are 50hz (doesn't say anywhere that they're 60hz capable).

Am I correct to state that a 60hz tv is required to make it work? It won't work on 50hz only tv's? Ifso, where do I find if the tv is 60hz capable (as most tv's only note 50hz on the back).

Would quickres be of any help in my case?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 07, 2010, 12:28:07 pm
Nah, there is no 50Hz/60Hz issue.
I have yet to find a TV with SCART that does NOT support 60Hz.

1st) Most TVs support RGB on the FIRST port only (at least the cheap ones)

2nd) If you can see the bios and boot screen "twice", your cable most likely is wired correctly.

3rd) Boot Windows with the TV attached -> Unplug the VGA Cable to the TV and plug in a "standard" VGA screen (either CRT or TFT will work).

--

a) If you get a "normal" desktop with the VGA screen, your card outputs 31khz (or more).

b) If the VGA turns off (or displays "signal out of range" or something like that) your card outputs 15khz.

In both cases try to change the desktop resolution to 640x240 or something like that (you will need quickres for that!)

--

As for something general.
If you get a black screen, try the OTHER output of your card.
Most newer cards have their "primary" output set to DVI and our good old TV in most cases doesn't get detected as "valid" display so the cards fall back to their "primary" port.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: BlazzingFlippers on June 08, 2010, 08:00:22 pm
Can't run the tool.  I get a

Run-time error '13':
type mismatch

Thanks for any help
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 09, 2010, 12:57:05 am
My magic glass ball says...

Well some more info would be nice :)
What gfx card? What OS? What drivers?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: BlazzingFlippers on June 09, 2010, 02:27:40 am
My magic glass ball says...

Well some more info would be nice :)
What gfx card? What OS? What drivers?

I'm the guy with the screaming Wells.  XP SP3 with the ArcadeVGA 3000.  I thought maybe installing Soft15k would enable the 31khz resolutions so my monitor won't scream.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 09, 2010, 03:10:58 am
If I remember correctly, Soft-15kHz does NOT work with an ArcadeVGA, as the custom drivers don't like the registry changes :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: orchidius on June 09, 2010, 12:35:43 pm
Doesn't the ArcadeVGA put out 15khz natively?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: BlazzingFlippers on June 09, 2010, 04:26:50 pm
Doesn't the ArcadeVGA put out 15khz natively?

It does but apparently my ears are too sensitive.  All the 15khz modes kill my ears.  There is no way I can stand it
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: orchidius on June 10, 2010, 02:11:48 am
The ArcadeVGA is a great controlled variable as far as software/hardware goes, so your problem is elsewhere. What monitor do you use? What connection to your gfx card? Do you have the opportunity to hook the pc to another monitor?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on June 10, 2010, 04:38:54 am
Hi,
Winmodelines "says":
Quote
most drivers have a limit in the number of custom modes they can load, and when exceeded some or all inserted modes may be ignored. ATI Catalyst versions 5.x and previous are limited to 40 modes, versions 6.x and newer are limited to 60 modes. There is a modified ATI driver that will load up to 160 modes. Nvidia will accept 32 modes.
Can you confirm that?
Do you know how many modelines can we use with newer catalysts?

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: BlazzingFlippers on June 10, 2010, 02:07:32 pm
The ArcadeVGA is a great controlled variable as far as software/hardware goes, so your problem is elsewhere. What monitor do you use? What connection to your gfx card? Do you have the opportunity to hook the pc to another monitor?

The monitor is a Wells Gardner D9410, bought new in May of 2009.  Hooking to the VGA port of the ArcadeVGA 3000, everything works as expected but its just the 15khz resolutions hurt my ears.  Plugging into the DVI port and using the DVI to VGA adapter, I don't get the screaming however I get nothing on the Wells.  If I unplug and hook up a regular LCD monitor, I get output just fine.  I'd like to get output working to the Wells while plugged into the DVI port.  Not sure why the Wells won't display anything.  I've tried many resolutions by first picking them hooked up to the LCD, then switching the cable over to the Wells where nothing shows up, just an all black screen.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: orchidius on June 11, 2010, 01:34:37 am
You say that you get "output just fine", that means that the card is not running at 15khz I think... Your LCD display should display something like "frequency out of range", since it can't display 15khz.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 11, 2010, 01:38:25 am
The arcadevga is supposed to output 15khz on the VGA and 31khz on the DVI port.
I suppose the windows driver doesn't detect your wells as "valid" monitor if it gets detected at all.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: jimmy2x2x on June 12, 2010, 03:23:31 pm
How do I get my scrolling games silky smooth with soft15k?

I've been reading through the earlier parts of this thread, but haven't really drawn any conclusion.

Do I need to recompile with frame rates set to 60hz?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: thesharkfactor on June 12, 2010, 10:08:48 pm
  hi folks,

i hope someone can help..

i have a sucessfully installed soft-15khz in a pc that i use in a jamma cabinet with a 19" arcade monitor. it works great and plays mame with 1:1 pixel mapping.. no problems there..

i now have a 2nd cabinet.. a sega initial D driving cabinet with a 29" tri sync monitor (pentranic ch-250) and im trying to get soft-15khz working properly with both mame and model 2 (nebula) driving games.  

im using the same pc as before, with an ATI Radeon HD4350.. i have 2 problems, i would appreciate help with..


1.. i have all 3 modes of soft-15khz installed. model2 games run fine in 640x480... but as i have a tri-sync, i'd like to have sega rally and daytona etc running in native resolution (496x384). i have tried adding a modeline i found in thread..

"modeline '496x384-24,960KHz-60Hz' 15,57504 496 512 576 624 384 386 391 416 -hsync -vsync"

..but when i change the model 2 emulator resolution to 496x384, it does not work (picture is unviewable, and a very high pitched buzz can be heard).

can someone help with a good modeline for model2 games on a tri-sync?



2. the 2nd problem. when running a 15khz mame game eg, outrun, i have a full screen, but 2 or more images can be seen, the images been mirrors of each other, neither is centered or in the correct postion.
also, i reckon what i can make out on screen looks more like a 31khz picture would.. not the image (distorted or not) with scanlines and bleeding colours that i would expect..

it is worth noting.. if i plug this same pc into my jamma cab with the 19" arcade monitor and j-pac and with only 15khz mode installed within soft-15khz, i get a perfect 1:1 arcade quality picture.. but, switch back to the tri-sync monitor and i get the same interfered screen during any 15khz mame game..

thanks for reading..and i hope someone can help.

cheers
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: thesharkfactor on June 15, 2010, 06:12:10 pm
anyone?

this thread is over 3 years old with 47 pages.. i couldnt have killed it have i? lol..

update: i took my mame pc over to mate. he has a few cabinets with tri-sync monitors.. we tested my pc on 2 of his tri-syncs.. on both of the monitors tested, i get exactly the same results..

31khz (windows) runs fine at 640x480 and even 512x448- ok

25khz (model2 emu at 496x348) is heavily interfered and jumbled up- not good.

15khz (mame) runs but is 2 interlaced images that dont line up/sync with each other- not good.

so that is now 3 tri-sync monitors i have tried my set up in.. each time the same results.

does anyone have experience with soft-15khz and tri-sync monitors? should they automatically sync to a 15/24/31 signal or do they need switched/adjusted? i have made all the adjustments i can using the 6 pots on the remote board.. but no joy..

or perhaps the tri-sync monitor has limited 15/24khz resolutions available and im not sending the correct signals??

any help appreciated!..

cheers
 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 15, 2010, 06:25:33 pm
What card, driver, operation system?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: thesharkfactor on June 15, 2010, 06:35:41 pm
hi sailor sat..

its a ati radeon hd4350.
im sure it is catalyst 9.2
win xp is the operating system.

thanks for any advice!

if i can get just 15khz and 31khz working together, id be happy..

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: thesharkfactor on June 15, 2010, 07:08:28 pm
here it is in 15khz mode..

(http://buchananmotors.com/tmp/daytona/IMG_0296.JPG)

note.. its not a double picture. my mistake.. it is one picture stretched and folded/overlapping itself.....
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: jimmy2x2x on June 18, 2010, 08:46:16 am
SailorSat: Would this be possible?

On a PC with an Asus Commando motherboard/8800gtx

Could I add a older standard PCI (or maybe a PCI-E card - this board has 2 slots) graphics card and use this card just to drive a soft15k output, and retain my existing 8800GTX for normal pc tasks?

Many thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 18, 2010, 08:50:14 am
@jimmy:
Yep that works
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Mittens on June 20, 2010, 05:52:01 am
I've been trying to figure this out myself for awhile now, but I guess now I'll ask here since I can't get it to work :(!


For starters, this is what I'm working with:
-JPAC
-Radeon HD4350 video card w/ soft15khz (15khz, 25khz, 31khz installed). ATI Catalyst 9.2 Drivers
-(WG) Wells Gardner 25k7197 Monitor, 25 inches.

When I turn on my PC with the VGA from the JPAC, I get the usual split screen BIOS and Boot screen. However, when Windows is done loading, I get a dark screen with some lines.

However, when I boot my PC up using a normal VGA monitor, then unplug the monitor and plug my JPAC into the VGA port, I get a split Windows screen (with vertical scrolling and shakiness that messing with knobs doesn't seem to fix).

I have not used any custom15khz.txt specifications because I wasn't sure which ones this monitor would use. I've also tried uninstalling/reinstalling video card drivers (from 10.x to 9.2), and reinstalling soft15khz.


Here's a picture if it helps any.


http://i45.tinypic.com/2a6rpma.jpg (http://i45.tinypic.com/2a6rpma.jpg)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 20, 2010, 07:41:44 am
Hm... You have installed all three options in S15K. Are you sure your monitor is a Tri-Sync/MultiSync monitor?

If not try just using 15kHz option.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Mittens on June 20, 2010, 04:00:53 pm
I've tried just the 15khz setting, but I can't connect it to my regular VGA monitor if something happens. I'll try it again tonight when I get home!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Mittens on June 21, 2010, 01:05:49 am
Ok, new problem!

The screen for the arcade works now with Windows, but it only works if I boot up with my VGA monitor hooked up, then switch the cable. After that, the picture is clear without any shakiness (some scrolling line every now and then in some games, rarely).

However, when I boot up with my arcade plugged into my VGA port, it just goes to a bright black screen. Any reasons you can think of for why that may be? :(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 21, 2010, 01:19:01 am
Yeah, the VGA port is the secondary output ouf your card.
The arcade screen doesn't get detected as "valid" screen.
Grab a DVI-VGA adapter and plug in your arcade screen on the other output of your card.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Mittens on June 21, 2010, 01:28:28 am
I knew having a box of those would pay off someday!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Mittens on June 21, 2010, 03:05:14 am
Thanks for the help, SailorSat :).

One question though! Is the slight buzzing/humming when the monitor is in the BIOS anything to be concerned about? The screen is more than just split at that point. It also has fast vertical scrolling. It's normal when Windows finally loads, and I know the JPAC says split screen at startup is normal, but I'm just curious about the slight buzzing and the fast scrolling. If it's nothing to be concerned with, then I think everything's been addressed! :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 21, 2010, 03:09:37 am
I knew having a box of those would pay off someday!
Indeed :)

As for the buzzing, thats pretty normal as your screen can't sync.
I never had any issues with that, though I can't promise anything.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: jimmy2x2x on June 21, 2010, 03:26:43 pm
Im still struggling to get some games scrolling smoothly!

For example 320x240 res as used by Fusion (megadrive/genesis emu)

When I enable Vsync, it sync's to 58.9 (which is the confirmed by using the overlay of powerstrip)

and the emulator wants to refresh at 60hz

the result is that about every 1.5 second there is a hiccup in constantly scrolling games (M.U.S.H.A or a Thunderforce game for example)

I was thinking about trying to tweak the resolutions to 60hz, but not all games refresh at 60hz (esp in mame)

Is there a solution to this problem? I see it a lot of mame games too

Many thanks for your untiring efforts SailorSat!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 21, 2010, 04:37:35 pm
Hm...
Disable any kind of auto-frameskip.

Don't remember the detailed settings but didn't have any issues on my Fusion setup.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: jimmy2x2x on June 21, 2010, 04:43:49 pm
No frame skipping is enabled, and all games run very smooth (except this fault)

Just to confirm, using the Fusions in game frame counter (matches fraps)

VSYNC on = 58.9fps - scrolling judders about once every 1.5 seconds (this is the vertical rate according to powerstip for 320x240)
VSYNC off = 60fps - screen tearing

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: dmarcum99 on June 30, 2010, 10:13:25 am
Hi SS!,

I was asking for some free custom modelines in the monitors section but not having any takers.  BUT, I am having something a little wierd happening with modeline creation.  If you could provide some feedback it would be great.

First off, I am using a NEC-XM29 and XP(32bit) in my cab.  My video car is a Visiontek ATI 9200SE  (128mb)and running Catylist 9.5 drivers.  In Windows, I'm currently using MameUI32 (latest build).  I should also mention that while I am not using Powerstrip currently, it has been used before and still installed on my PC.

I was attempting to create modelines through advancemame and while I can create a modeline that looks great in advv it does not translate to the same image in Windows.  For example, for DK, advmame uses 400x256x16 8.5/16.1/60.0.  If I recreate the resolution in advv.exe and test it, it looks awesome.  But, when I take the modeline and place it in Soft15Khz, I get a lot of overscan when I use that same resolution in XP(32bit).  Here's the modeline I placed in the usermodes.txt file:

Modeline "400x256@60.00" 8.45856 400 424 472 528 256 257 258 267 -hsync -vsync

Here are pics showing the overscan I mentioned.  First two pics are from advmame and advv program.  The last three are in Windows XP using MameUI32 (latest build).

Again, any feedback you can provide would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 30, 2010, 10:53:20 am
Phew thats a hard one...
First of all, try to create that move in ADVV in 32bit instead of 16.
For some reason older ATI cards used to change their timings based on the bit depth.

Other than that I'm pretty clueless.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: dmarcum99 on July 01, 2010, 10:26:52 am
Thanks for the reply SS!! 
I have to say, your program has been a blessing indeed!  It's free, and if you are determined enough, you could create your very own custom modelines for all the games you want to play in full-screen edge to edge glory!!

I tried your suggestion about tweaking the modeline in 32bit, but it wasn't successful.  For a test, I tried my onboard ATI HD4200 gpu....the 400x256 worked great!  I was really happy until I discovered that I couldn't get the card to work with advcfg or advv.  In addition to that, the I couldn't run any horizontal resolution under 356.  I guess the pixel clock is too high and with out being able to use advv, I can't create any custom resolutions. 

I had a 400X256 custom res created in powerstrip, but I removed it afterward.  Would having powerstrip installed and having that custom resolutions in powerstrip cause with my ATI 9200SE and the 400X256 any issues?  I guess I should have tried the 9200SE again after I saw the HD4200 run it correctly.... :embarassed:

So here's the $50 question...Is there a "newish" ATI gpu video card that does it all....I mean plays well with advcfg & advv, not screwy like my 9200SE, and lets all the lower resolution work?  This cab only runs mame and daphne....no PC games or anything like that so I don't need a powerhouse GPU.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 01, 2010, 10:42:34 am
Guess it's time to finish psremote xD

As for powerstrip, well IF powerstrip is running in the background it may enforce your old settings.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wilch on July 01, 2010, 12:28:09 pm
sorry if this has been asked already, but there are about 50 pages to this thread!

im testing my new vga-scart cable with a radeon 9250. i have my primary LCD connected to DVI & TV via scart to VGA. in soft-15khz, do i have to install 15hz for both displays or can i have it set to only the secondary while using the LCD as normal?

once i'm sure the cable won't blow my house up, or at least my card, i'll be trying it with a radeon hd 5870 via DVI-VGA adapter so can have it set to primary, but would still like to have dual screens if possible

thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 01, 2010, 02:01:27 pm
Basicaly S15K works with BOTH heads. It's the same whatever output you select.
You LCD should still work as it reports some native resolution which most certainly is higher than anything S15K provides.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wilch on July 01, 2010, 05:48:47 pm
yeah i got it working and the LCD worked fine. i have a problem though, i selected composite sync in the ATI drivers and had to set horizonal to positive and vertical to negative to stop the image rolling. each time i change the resolution the screen goes black until i change vertical to positive then back to negative... if i start a program then i can't move the mouse cursor over to the ATI drivers on the LCD to do this so im stuck with a black screen. im not sure if this is a problem with the wiring of the cable or my drivers
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 02, 2010, 01:29:17 am
You should not need to change any sync options (especially not composite sync).
What pinout did you use for the scart cable?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wilch on July 02, 2010, 07:19:23 am
VGA     SCART   NAME
 1  ----  15     Red Signal
 2  ----  11     Green Signal
 3  ----   7      Blue Signal
 6  ----  13     Red Ground
 7  ----   9      Green Ground
 8  ----   5      Blue Ground
 5+10  ----  17   Sync Ground
13+14 (twisted) ---  20    Sync Signal (neg. H-Sync + neg. V-Sync = neg. C-Sync)

I have VGA 16 bridged to scart 20.
seems there may be a problem with the sync signal or ground?
i have done continuity tests & they showed no problems. 
i have vga shielding linked to scart shielding (this is a copper wire without any plastic/shielding around it) don't know if that is a problem or not.
here's exactly what i did; booted into XP with TV connected but turned off. enabled the second display but left the TV off and went into ATI drivers.
I noticed polarity & composite sync were not set to what i believed they should be based on reading on this forum, so i set Hor & Vert to negative and enabled composite sync.
I installed soft-15khz to both displays and rebooted, the TV picked up the RGB signal but was black. i used the LCD to go into ATI drivers and played with the polarity until i had a stable image.

i'm sure i'v botched the cable somehow because the colours all seem to bleed into each other, green is especially dominant and some reds look like an orange/brown colour

hope you can shed some light on the issue. thanks!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 02, 2010, 08:16:27 am
1. Do NOT enable composite sync. You have both Sync wires twisted together (VGA 13 and 14).

2. I would split VGA 5 and 10 and connect the blanking ground.
VGA 10 (Sync Ground) -> To SCART 17 (Composite Video Ground)
VGA 5 is "Common Ground" -> To SCART 18 (Blanking Ground)

3. If your TV shows "black" it most likely did not switch to RGB.

4. The color bleeding most likely is your sync --- VGA Sync is 5V where SCART usually only is 1V.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wilch on July 02, 2010, 01:35:42 pm
ok ill follow suggestions Sailorsat, but i'm a little confused with the sync voltages; should i connect a resistor to the VGA syncs to reduce the voltage so its closer to 1v to match the scart sync?

thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 03, 2010, 01:53:26 am
Thats an option if you have trouble getting image at all.
I personaly never needed them.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on July 03, 2010, 11:53:47 am

Although R-G-B should be roughly 0-1v, this is not so for the sync. TV Sync can be up to 5v normally. ArcadeVGA outputs at around 4-5v and a JPAC outputs at ~3.5v. You should not need to put a resistor on the sync lines - and you will probably get picture sync problems if you do..

Sync problems will express themselves in the sync itself - e.g. picture rolling or becoming diagonal at the top. Your RGB colours bleeding does suggest that your RGB is too high or something. Have you tried adjusting the brightness & contrast on your TV? I'd look here before adding any resistors to the R-G-B signal lines. I hope that you don't have any shorts between your RGB lines and/or their grounds.

You really need to have your video driver consistently outputting both Hsync & Vsync as negative. If you are having ongoing problems with the driver resetting or whatever, then I'd suggest that you uninstall the ATI driver completely. The use the 'cat-uninstaller.exe' program to completely remove anything ATI from your PC. Then reinstall the Radeon ATI 9250 driver using the older catalyst 6.5. Leave the sync alone. Then re-install Soft15khz.

Further info available on VGA-SCART cable wiring on the pinned thread.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=77370.new#new (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=77370.new#new)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: dmarcum99 on July 07, 2010, 04:54:37 pm
Hi SS!,

Wanted to let you know that I found out the cause of my overscan.  

It came from my drivers.  Your app suggests that we use cat 6.5 for older cards like my ATI9200SE.  Well, I downgraded to cat 6.11 off ATI/AMD's website and the overscan went away.  I was able to reporduce the overscan by using the cat uninstaller and re-installing cat 6.5.  This may be limited to just my brand/model of video card (visiontek 9200se 128mb), but I'd thought I'd pass it on.  

This past weekend, I tried a ATI X300....and it worked well.  Unfortunately, the X300 does not like advv & advcfg.  These apps would start, but when I went to test the settings, the screen would blank out.   ???   I guess if I need the GPU power of the X300, I'll get all my timings made with the 9200se and swap out afterward.

BTW, your app ROCKS!!!    :notworthy:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on July 09, 2010, 03:22:25 pm
Salior.

Its been a while. Havent posted in a year or two here. I just got around to updated my cabinet with latestest version of mame.

I am using your latest version of Cabmame 138 (dos version) with soft 15khz on a 27" Bill labs monitor with an ATIX1900XT video card in Win XP3 2bit. I am running D3d setting and it seems to be working great except when I play games like punchout and Nintendo Player choice games. Any hames that used 2 monitors for that matter. It appears both screens are compressed and flatten out. I tried many different settings but cant seem to get it to display properly. My old settings with mame 127 I used to set it to 512x448 I think. It will display both screens no problem.

Any suggestions? Aside from that all other games work perfect.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on July 09, 2010, 03:32:16 pm
Also I am running build 43 of soft15. khz. I didnt upgrade to latest build since the updates really didnt appear to introduce fixes to my issue.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 10, 2010, 04:23:07 am
Mhm... Those multi-monitor games most like conflict with cleanstretch :)
There's no "automatic" fix
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on July 10, 2010, 08:56:57 am
I'm ok with a manual CRT fix. I just cant figure out how to get it to display with any settings. Can you help?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wilch on July 10, 2010, 10:14:43 am
thanks for the advice guys, been a busy week so haven't had much time to solder. i reinstalled catalyst 6.5 and left composite sync alone and now i can change resolution freely without any blackouts.
i'm still experiencing the green filter problem, i've tried dosbox which looks ok running in windowed mode, but when changed to full screen the green is dominant again so it seems to affect certain resolutions more than others.
there are no shots in the cable, but some wires are close to each other, i have gently bent & twisted the scart end and the wires never touched.

i want to follow SailorSat's suggestion "I would split VGA 5 and 10 and connect the blanking ground.
VGA 10 (Sync Ground) -> To SCART 17 (Composite Video Ground)
VGA 5 is "Common Ground" -> To SCART 18 (Blanking Ground)" but i'm not sure if this will help the colours or if this was advised based on my blackout problem.

also, quickres doesn't show these resolutions: 320x200, 320x240 or 320x256(for amiga emulation).
i created a text file in the same folder as soft-15khz called custom15khz.txt and types these line, based on what i've read:

Modeline  "320x200"   15.75  320 336 368 416  200 200 202 222 doublescan -hsync +vsync
Modeline  "320x240"   18.00  320 348 376 416  240 240 242 254 doublescan -hsync -vsync
Modeline '320x256@59,917' 6,68 320 340 372 416 256 257 260 268 -hsync -vsync

but the resolutions are still absent. can anyone explain why, or if these modelines are wrong?

thanks!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 10, 2010, 11:45:53 pm
@wilch:
The R9200 won't do 320*X Modes in Windows. They get added as 321*X

Other than that, the 320x200 and 320x240 modelines won't work on a TV as they are...
a) doublescanned
b) have a pixelclock way too high
c) at least one has positive vsync polarity

Also please note, the "real" VGA mode (320x200) is actually 70Hz refresh, and most TV (and even my beloved Commodore 1084) won't do these.

For Amiga emulation use
Code: [Select]
modeline 'Amiga-NTSC-720x240' 14,5881 720 752 824 928 240 243 246 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline 'Amiga-PAL-720x288' 14,4768 720 752 824 928 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync
Do NOT tick the "LoRes" option WinUAE.


As for the dominant green. Well try two 1k Ohms resistors on the Sync lines.
Some TVs "drift off" into some kind of yellow with the "standard" VGA sync levels.
VGA 13 - 1k Ohm resistor - SCART 20
VGA 14 - 1k Ohm resistor - SCART 20
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: I/O on July 12, 2010, 08:28:11 pm
Salior.

Its been a while. Havent posted in a year or two here. I just got around to updated my cabinet with latestest version of mame.

I am using your latest version of Cabmame 138 (dos version) with soft 15khz on a 27" Bill labs monitor with an ATIX1900XT video card in Win XP3 2bit. I am running D3d setting and it seems to be working great except when I play games like punchout and Nintendo Player choice games. Any hames that used 2 monitors for that matter. It appears both screens are compressed and flatten out. I tried many different settings but cant seem to get it to display properly. My old settings with mame 127 I used to set it to 512x448 I think. It will display both screens no problem.

Any suggestions? Aside from that all other games work perfect.


I thought D3D was not supposed to be used when switching resolutions...

In any case, I do not think this is a soft15 issue. I can confirm that both cabmame and cabmameui 138 display as described by bent98. (Settings were D3D with switchres enable - resolution default was 640x480 - and without switchres enabled - resolution at desktop.) MAMEUI 138.2 displays properly.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: purplec on July 13, 2010, 03:38:05 am
Hi will a Nvidia Geforce 1GB GTS250 work with soft 15khz.

any help would be great cheers
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 13, 2010, 06:08:23 am
Hi will a Nvidia Geforce 1GB GTS250 work with soft 15khz.

any help would be great cheers

You most likely need a edid dongle.



Concerning the dual-monitor games... I'll take a look.
I added some "fix" for those long ago (for outrunners). Maybe it's not working for games with a vertical screen setup.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: purplec on July 13, 2010, 12:52:50 pm
Hi Sailorsat

Thanks for the reply

Im only using one screen with the graphics card. I can use this graphics card on my desktop instead.

What would be the best 1 GB PCI expresss card I should get to run soft 15KHZ. i would just liek to future proof this current setup for the next few years.

Cheers
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 13, 2010, 12:57:21 pm
Any Radeon HD4000 and newer should be fine.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: purplec on July 13, 2010, 07:07:55 pm
Hi Sailorsat

Thanks again for the reply.

I think im going to go for one of these below

ATI Radeon HD 4550 1GB.

Do i need to install a different device driver instead of the standard drivers.

Sorry about all the questions im very new to this.

Cheers
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 14, 2010, 06:13:30 am
Standard Catalyst should be fine.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on July 17, 2010, 10:55:50 pm
Quote
Concerning the dual-monitor games... I'll take a look.
I added some "fix" for those long ago (for outrunners). Maybe it's not working for games with a vertical screen setup.

That would be great if you can find a work around for these dual monitor games. If they could just run 800x600 it would be fine.

My work around is running a different version of mame but its a pain in the butt when lauching from Frontend as I would have figure out every dual monitor game and edit XML file to point to different version of mame.

I would be grateful if you can make a fix and slipstream it into cab mame!

Its punchouts, armwrestle, and all Nintendo .VS games
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sosetsuken on July 18, 2010, 03:30:05 am
Hey SailorSat,

Is there a good online modeline calculator that works with soft15khz?  I'm trying to get 496x384 but it looks wrong (spinny image). :/
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 18, 2010, 06:14:53 am
Code: [Select]
# -= 25KHz Progressive =-
modeline '496x384-24,96kHz-60,0Hz' 15,575 496 512 576 624 384 392 400 416 -hsync -vsync

Online... Well none that I know of.
However I think most of them made are for VGA modes (with rather short sync period) anyway so you can't blame them :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 19, 2010, 05:57:11 am
Vertical multi-screen will work in the next cabmame release.

for the self compiler -> src / emu / render.c (around line 1472)...

remove
Code: [Select]
height = height / screens_considered;
add
Code: [Select]
if (target->curview->aspect >= 1.2)
        {
            height = height / screens_considered;
        }
        else
        {
            width = width / screens_considered;
        }
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on July 19, 2010, 06:53:43 am
your awsome.

Would it be too much trouble to PM me 138 32bit command line version to test on my rig?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 19, 2010, 07:21:56 am
Should be possible as soon as I get home :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on July 19, 2010, 09:19:18 am
Sweet thanks!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on July 19, 2010, 10:41:32 am
Try the Low Res Modeline Generator (LRMC):

http://sourceforge.net/projects/lrmc/ (http://sourceforge.net/projects/lrmc/)

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: megaman7 on July 20, 2010, 09:25:13 am
Hi,
  I'm trying to get Mameui to look decent on an LCD.  I saw a while back (page 18 I think) that SailorSat posted a few image effects for the artwork folder in mame.  I believe they were called Triad3 and Triad6.  The links appear to be dead.  Is there anywhere I can grab these files?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 20, 2010, 10:50:14 am
@megaman: try http://images.arianchen.de/?x=filter (http://images.arianchen.de/?x=filter)

@bent: try http://files.arianchen.de/cabmame.zip (http://files.arianchen.de/cabmame.zip)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on July 20, 2010, 03:34:23 pm
Thanks! Question for you. This version does work if I add the resolution via the specific roms .ini file. IS there anyway to complie mame to havethese games set to 640x480 via the auto setting in mame? If I dont make an .ini file and set resolution and leave it on auto, my monitor cant sync to those games.

Only reason I am asking is to avoid having to create a custom .ini file for each mame rom.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 20, 2010, 03:37:36 pm
What resolution does MAME choose? Oo
Usually I add height and weight of all screen and then (depending on vertical or horizontal layout) divide one value by the number of screens.

dual 320x240 should either come out in 640x240 (horizontal) or 320x480 (vertical), then mame searches for some resolution.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on July 20, 2010, 03:51:40 pm
on auto it doesnt sync so I dont know what resoultion its trying.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on July 20, 2010, 03:53:09 pm
my Monitor is horizontal layout. Billabs 27 inch multisync
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wilch on July 21, 2010, 05:22:30 am
Quote
The R9200 won't do 320*X Modes in Windows. They get added as 321*X

Other than that, the 320x200 and 320x240 modelines won't work on a TV as they are...
a) doublescanned
b) have a pixelclock way too high
c) at least one has positive vsync polarity

Also please note, the "real" VGA mode (320x200) is actually 70Hz refresh, and most TV (and even my beloved Commodore 1084) won't do these

oh dear this is very bad! isn't this the most commonly used resolution for old school gaming like PSX, genesis, dosbox? is there no way to display 321x* on a 50/60hz TV with the vga-scart cable?

also back to my colour problem, here is a list of resolutions that show colours perfectly and ones that are dominantly green:

good colours:
288 x 240
296 x 240
304 x 240
352 x 288
368 x 240
384 x 288
448 x 240
512 x 240
512 x 288
512 x 448
512 x 512

green tint:
240 x 240
256 x 240
256 x 256
256 x 264
336 x 240
352 x 256
392 x 240
632 x 264
640 x 240
640 x 288
640 x 480
720 x 240
720 x 288
720 x 480
800 x 600
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 21, 2010, 07:18:23 am
Stop - I was talking about the modelines you posted for 320x240. They won't work on a TV.

The stock modelines of Soft-15kHz work fine.
Don't worry about 321x240. Pretty much every emulator will ignore the extra one pixel.

Also note that CRTs (doesn't matter if TV/arcade or VGA) don't care about how often the color changes per scanline, or in plain text, the horizontal pixel count.
CRTs only care about the amount of lines and the vertical refresh.

As for the green tint. Well IF you have added two resistors to the sync lines I am pretty clueless. If not, put one 1k Ohm resistor to VGA Pin 14, and another one to VGA Pin 13, then connect the other ends together to SCART Pin 20.

Other than that I can PM you some replacement modelines to try. That should be more "compatible" in terms of timings.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on July 21, 2010, 07:47:45 am
Sailor,

An ideas on my question?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 21, 2010, 09:11:28 am
not yet. I'm starting to wonder what resolution your MAME is trying to switch to (try running -verbose)

PunchOut is dual 256x224 "vertical" (the screens, not the image!)

size get added...
width: 2 x 256 = 512
height: 2 x 224 = 448

as we have a "vertical" layout the width gets halved to 256 again.
So the "final" screen size is 256x448...

next matching resolutions would be... 512x448 (if available), 512x512 or 640x480.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on July 21, 2010, 09:35:45 am
This is what it does when its set to Auto(No .ini file)

Parsing mame.ini
Video: Monitor 00010001 = "\\.\DISPLAY1" (primary)
Direct3D: Using Direct3D 9
Direct3D: Configuring adapter #0 = Radeon X1950 Series 
Direct3D: Selecting video mode...
   240x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   256x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   256x 256@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   256x 264@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   288x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   296x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   304x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   321x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   321x 256@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   336x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   352x 256@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   352x 264@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   352x 288@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   352x 288@ 61Hz -> 500.000000
   368x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   384x 288@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   392x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   400x 384@ 61Hz -> 500.000000
   401x 256@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   448x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   448x 384@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   496x 384@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   512x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   512x 288@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   512x 384@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   512x 448@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   512x 512@ 60Hz -> 1003.134796
   632x 264@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   640x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   640x 288@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   640x 480@ 60Hz -> 1002.409639
   720x 480@ 60Hz -> 1002.020202
   800x 600@ 60Hz -> 1001.438849
  1024x 768@ 60Hz -> 1000.919963
  1280x 720@ 60Hz -> 1000.772201
  1920x1080@ 60Hz -> 1000.435730
Direct3D: Mode selected =  512x 512@ 60Hz
Direct3D: Using dynamic textures
Direct3D: YUV format = UYVY
Direct3D: Device created at 512x512
Direct3D: Max texture size = 4096x4096
DirectSound: Primary buffer: 48000 Hz, 16 bits, 2 channels
RawInput: APIs detected
Input: Adding Mouse #1: Microsoft USB IntelliMouse Optical
Input: Adding Gun #1: Microsoft USB IntelliMouse Optical
Input: Adding Mouse #2: HID-compliant mouse
Input: Adding Gun #2: HID-compliant mouse
Input: Adding Mouse #3: HID-compliant mouse
Input: Adding Gun #3: HID-compliant mouse
Input: Adding Kbd #1: HID Keyboard Device
Input: Adding Kbd #2: HID Keyboard Device
Input: Adding Kbd #3: HID Keyboard Device
DirectInput: Using DirectInput 7
Input: Changing default joystick map = s8.4s8.44s8.4445
  s8888888s
  4s88888s6
  44s888s66
  444555666
  444555666
  444555666
  44s222s66
  4s22222s6
  s2222222s
Average speed: 96.95% (18 seconds)
Sound: buffer overflows=2 underflows=0



Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on July 21, 2010, 09:36:52 am
By using an .ini to force it to Rez


triplebuffer              1

# PER-WINDOW VIDEO OPTIONS
#
resolution                512x448
resolution0               auto

#
# FULL SCREEN OPTIONS


Parsing mame.ini
Parsing punchout.ini
Parsing punchout.ini
Video: Monitor 00010001 = "\\.\DISPLAY1" (primary)
Direct3D: Using Direct3D 9
Direct3D: Configuring adapter #0 = Radeon X1950 Series 
Direct3D: Selecting video mode...
   240x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   256x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   256x 256@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   256x 264@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   288x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   296x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   304x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   321x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   321x 256@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   336x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   352x 256@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   352x 264@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   352x 288@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   352x 288@ 61Hz -> 500.000000
   368x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   384x 288@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   392x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   400x 384@ 61Hz -> 500.000000
   401x 256@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   448x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   448x 384@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   496x 384@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   512x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   512x 288@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   512x 384@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   512x 448@ 60Hz -> 3000.000000
   512x 512@ 60Hz -> 1003.134796
   632x 264@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   640x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   640x 288@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   640x 480@ 60Hz -> 1002.409639
   720x 480@ 60Hz -> 1002.020202
   800x 600@ 60Hz -> 1001.438849
  1024x 768@ 60Hz -> 1000.919963
  1280x 720@ 60Hz -> 1000.772201
  1920x1080@ 60Hz -> 1000.435730
Direct3D: Mode selected =  512x 448@ 60Hz
Direct3D: Using dynamic textures
Direct3D: YUV format = UYVY
Direct3D: Device created at 512x448
Direct3D: Max texture size = 4096x4096
DirectSound: Primary buffer: 48000 Hz, 16 bits, 2 channels
RawInput: APIs detected
Input: Adding Mouse #1: Microsoft USB IntelliMouse Optical
Input: Adding Gun #1: Microsoft USB IntelliMouse Optical
Input: Adding Mouse #2: HID-compliant mouse
Input: Adding Gun #2: HID-compliant mouse
Input: Adding Mouse #3: HID-compliant mouse
Input: Adding Gun #3: HID-compliant mouse
Input: Adding Kbd #1: HID Keyboard Device
Input: Adding Kbd #2: HID Keyboard Device
Input: Adding Kbd #3: HID Keyboard Device
DirectInput: Using DirectInput 7
Input: Changing default joystick map = s8.4s8.44s8.4445
  s8888888s
  4s88888s6
  44s888s66
  444555666
  444555666
  444555666
  44s222s66
  4s22222s6
  s2222222s
Sound: buffer overflows=2 underflows=0



#
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on July 21, 2010, 09:37:40 am
So big question, why is Auto force it to 512x512 instead of 512x448?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on July 21, 2010, 10:02:14 am
One more thing.

When I use punchout ini file and force it to 512x448  the monitor its says its displaying at 640x480.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 21, 2010, 10:09:23 am
Like said some posts earlier, CRTs can't tell what resolution it really is as the can only count the lines.

Most of them have real 262 lines (doesn't matter if 224 or 240 line "active"), and 525 in interlace (448 or 480 lines "active").

I'll take a look later as soon as I get home from work.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wilch on July 21, 2010, 09:09:50 pm
Quote
Stop - I was talking about the modelines you posted for 320x240. They won't work on a TV.

The stock modelines of Soft-15kHz work fine.
Don't worry about 321x240. Pretty much every emulator will ignore the extra one pixel.

Also note that CRTs (doesn't matter if TV/arcade or VGA) don't care about how often the color changes per scanline, or in plain text, the horizontal pixel count.
CRTs only care about the amount of lines and the vertical refresh.

As for the green tint. Well IF you have added two resistors to the sync lines I am pretty clueless. If not, put one 1k Ohm resistor to VGA Pin 14, and another one to VGA Pin 13, then connect the other ends together to SCART Pin 20.

Other than that I can PM you some replacement modelines to try. That should be more "compatible" in terms of timings

i see. 321x doesn't show up in the quickres list on the TV, but does on the LCD (but doesn't work). so yeah if you can PM me some modelines for 321x that will show up on the CRT i'd appreciate it a lot.
i haven't soldered any resistors to the cable yet, just thought i'd post the affected resolutions in case it offered any more insight, i'll get the resistors this weekend
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: deano7 on July 22, 2010, 08:40:04 pm
Hi,

I just got a j-pac and am using a nvdia 9400gt with soft 15khz.  I hooked it up and get no picture on my jamma cab.  It says when I open it up that I probably will need a dongle.  Where can I get one of these and how much do they cost? 

When you do this, do you need to put soft 15khz in the startup folder?  What is the best way to use soft 15khz?  When you click install 15khz, I get that the capability is probably there, but how do you change the monitor over to 15khz when you can't see what is on the screen once hooking it up to the cab?  Probably a super noob question, I apologize in advance. 

Thanks!
Dean
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: deano7 on July 23, 2010, 12:36:35 am
Another question.  How do you turn this off?  Now that I installed it to try and work on my monitor, but figured out I need the dongle, how do I get it so I can use a monitor again?  Thanks!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 23, 2010, 01:43:06 am
Hit F8 on start and select "VGA Mode"
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: deano7 on July 23, 2010, 01:55:47 am
Thanks!  Sailorsat, do you sell the dongles?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 23, 2010, 03:02:36 am
Yes I do.
Though first check it again :) If your arcade screen turns black on boot, use the OTHER output of your card (you may need a simple DVI-to-VGA adapter).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wilch on July 23, 2010, 09:07:25 am
anyone else completely missing 321x240 in their list of available resolutions while using soft-15khz?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 23, 2010, 09:10:38 am
Two possible reasons :)
a) custom drivers (omega for example)
b) too new drivers :) (cat 6.6 and newer on radeon 9600)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: deano7 on July 23, 2010, 08:32:58 pm
Sorry to be such a pain, but F8 doesn't seem to do anything for me.  If I start in safe mode, it works fine on my monitor, but in a normal boot up, I see the win xp logo and then I lose connection to the monitor.  Where do I enter VGA mode?  Is it somewhere in the BIOS?  Sorry I am so confused!  Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on July 23, 2010, 09:13:47 pm
Sailor

Have you gotten a chance to look at my resolution question?

thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: deano7 on July 23, 2010, 09:43:14 pm
Sailorsat,

I found the DVI to VGA adaptor and it works.  I am getting a signal to the Ikari Warriors cab.  SWEET. 

Now I have a few final questions:
1. when booting up with my JPAC, I see the windows logo, but there are 2 of them about 6 inches apart (Like I've had too many dunkelweissen)
2. the orientation is obviously wrong and it needs to be turned 90 degrees.
3. Everything is garbled and distorted.

I played with the monitor knobs in the back and I got it to stop moving with the sync, but it is so distorted that I can't tell what is on the screen.  I saw the different khz and I am wondering if maybe 15khz is not the right one?  How do I know and what can I do to troubleshoot?  Thanks in advance.  How cool is it that I may be playing me some Ikari warriors and Frontine in the same cab!

Dean
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 24, 2010, 05:40:08 am
@ deano: The Menu where you can select "safe mode" also should show a menu "vga mode".

The doubled XP Logo is correct. 31kHz gets converted to 15khz by "removing" every 2nd hsync impulse. You see everything twice.

If I remember correctly Ikari Warriors has a verticaly mounted monitor.

As for disortions... Photos ^^
Most likely the card is outputing 31khz without the dongle.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: deano7 on July 24, 2010, 05:56:27 pm
Thanks Sailorsat.  I was able to do the VGA mode - I can't believe I didn't see it before. 

I have attached a couple of pics so you can see what is going on with my monitor. 

Yes, Ikari warriors is a vertical monitor.  So what resolution should I set it to and how would I do that?  If I go to windows display or quickres, the lowest res available is 640X480.  I would guess that I need to somehow change the resolution when using my regular computer monitor and then switch it over to the cabinet monitor where I will be able to see it?  Is it going to be like 290X 500 or something like that?  Is there some sort of document that gives a step by step process to setup?  I looked on your site and at the FAQ and I am sorry to bother you.

By the way, I can probably get a GEforce 7200GS, will that work without the dongle?  I am guessing since quickres doesn't show any additional resolutions that I need the dongle for my 9400, right?

Thanks again for the help!  My boys are chomping to play some Heavy Barrel and I want to play some Frontline - haven't played that since I was a kid!  What part of Germany you in Sailorsat?  I have a really good friend in Wertach in the southeast section of the country.  It is beautiful there - can't wait to get back to visit!

Dean

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 25, 2010, 06:01:01 am
@bent98:
Hm strange.
Based on my tests...

<cut>
Looks like a vertical layout... 0.663350
xscale = 1
yscale = 1
visible_width = 256
visible_height = 448
<cut>

Don't know exactly why it choses 512x512 instead of 512x448.
Anyway, if 512x512 doesn't work on your monitor remove it from soft15khz and you should be fine.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on July 25, 2010, 11:06:57 am
Salior

How do I remove 512x512 resolution? I assume I need to add something to my soft15kkz.txt? Also I am running this version driver:
Would the driver have anything to do with it?

Driver Packaging Version   8.53-080820a-068898C-ATI   
Catalyst® Version   08.9   
Primary Adapter      
Graphics Card Manufacturer   Powered by ATI   
Graphics Chipset   Radeon X1950 Series     
Device ID   7244   


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on July 25, 2010, 05:50:44 pm
Ok figure out how to remove. I removed 512x512 from custom31khz.txt

Now monitor runs it at 320x250  15.9khZ, 58.3hz

Why does mame show it running at 512x512 if that resolution isnt available on my card?

This resolution flickers and has alot of scan lines. Can you recommend to try anything else? IS there a way to tell soft15 to run 640x480 instead of 512x512 through the custom configs files. Kind of like a resolution substitution.



Parsing mame.ini
Video: Monitor 00010001 = "\\.\DISPLAY1" (primary)
Direct3D: Using Direct3D 9
Direct3D: Configuring adapter #0 = Radeon X1950 Series  
Direct3D: Selecting video mode...
   240x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   256x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   256x 256@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   256x 264@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   288x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   296x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   304x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   321x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   321x 256@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   336x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   352x 256@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   352x 264@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   352x 288@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   352x 288@ 61Hz -> 500.000000
   368x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   384x 288@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   392x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   400x 384@ 61Hz -> 500.000000
   401x 256@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   448x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   448x 384@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   496x 384@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   512x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   512x 288@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   512x 384@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   512x 448@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   512x 512@ 60Hz -> 1003.134796
   632x 264@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   640x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   640x 288@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   640x 480@ 60Hz -> 1002.409639
   720x 480@ 60Hz -> 1002.020202
   800x 600@ 60Hz -> 1001.438849
  1024x 768@ 60Hz -> 1000.919963
  1280x 720@ 60Hz -> 1000.772201
  1920x1080@ 60Hz -> 1000.435730
Direct3D: Mode selected =  512x 512@ 60Hz
Direct3D: Using dynamic textures
Direct3D: YUV format = UYVY
Direct3D: Device created at 512x512
Direct3D: Max texture size = 4096x4096
DirectSound: Primary buffer: 48000 Hz, 16 bits, 2 channels
RawInput: APIs detected
Input: Adding Mouse #1: Microsoft USB IntelliMouse Optical
Input: Adding Gun #1: Microsoft USB IntelliMouse Optical
Input: Adding Mouse #2: HID-compliant mouse
Input: Adding Gun #2: HID-compliant mouse
Input: Adding Mouse #3: HID-compliant mouse
Input: Adding Gun #3: HID-compliant mouse
Input: Adding Kbd #1: HID Keyboard Device
Input: Adding Kbd #2: HID Keyboard Device
Input: Adding Kbd #3: HID Keyboard Device
DirectInput: Using DirectInput 7
Input: Changing default joystick map = s8.4s8.44s8.4445
  s8888888s
  4s88888s6
  44s888s66
  444555666
  444555666
  444555666
  44s222s66
  4s22222s6
  s2222222s
Sound: buffer overflows=1 underflows=0
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 26, 2010, 01:37:55 am
I don't think you have removed it if it still shows up in MAME.
However it is output in 15kHz now instead of 31kHz.

Don't trust what your monitor says about the pixel resolution. The frequencies are fine.

Sadly there is no generic way to tell MAME what resolution to use for multiscreen games as there is no generic ini file for that. You could try it on the "system" level.

vsnes.ini should cover all nintendo VS. games.
ninjaw.ini should cover ninja warriors and darius2.
darius.ini should cover darius.
playch10.ini should cover als nintendo playchoice games.
megatech.ini should cover all sega megatech games.

I don't have a list of all multiscreen games at hand, but IIRC there are not many.
there doesn't seem to be any bios set for multi32 games. (outrunners etc.)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on July 26, 2010, 08:39:52 am
Awsome. That did the trick!

Will you be adding this hack in all the new cabmames? Will it require something to be turned on in the mame.ini file or will it just be there like the frogger and galaxian hack?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 26, 2010, 08:48:49 am
It will be there by default. As its only a fix to my "old" hacks :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bent98 on July 26, 2010, 09:42:04 am
thanks again!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wilch on July 26, 2010, 09:55:38 am
Quote
Two possible reasons
a) custom drivers (omega for example)
b) too new drivers  (cat 6.6 and newer on radeon 9600)

im using the standard x86 windows XP radeon 6.5 drivers.
i'll wipe, then reinstall the drivers when i get home & see what happens
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: greenoneten on July 26, 2010, 04:42:42 pm
Hi SailorSat,
I have a problem with two different graphic cards and S15.
1) a XFX GT240 which through reading the other posts has an EDID issue and needs a dongle, boots and switches fine on TFT monitor plug in arcade perfect.
Boot with arcade monitor attached and the screen goes black, attach TFT monitor and then change resolution and then it switches to 15khz.
2) a Asus EAH5770 ati chipset when it boots it then switches to 4bit colour mode with S15 installed, tried all outputs using dvi to via plus etc..
many thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 27, 2010, 01:25:29 am
hm... what catalyst are you using with the hd5770? I haven't worked with the newer stuff yet but I doubt they changed anything mayor.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: greenoneten on July 27, 2010, 02:23:05 am
Hi,
I tried the original drivers for the hd5570, i think catalyst 8.1 and also tried 6.5 but that didn't detect the card.
That also is looking for EDID i think as it has settings to switch off auto detect which i tried but also didn't work.The arcade monitor shows up as analog vga.
Set at 15khz i think its switching to 31khz in 640X480 in 4 Bit colour. the screen is standard windows but very pixalatted and pink and green colours but you can change resolution down to 240x240 but still no 15khz.
also the XFX GT240 which switches to 15HZ on lcd tft monitor but not on the arcade monitor according to earlier posts tried the various outputs vga, hdmi. Its the same on both outputs.
how do i contact you about buying a EDID dongle so at least i can get one of the two cards working.
many thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 27, 2010, 03:00:50 am
Send me a PM.

Guess it's time for me to get a new video card then :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: greenoneten on July 27, 2010, 06:21:05 am
Hi,
swapped the asus hd 5570 for a radeon hd5570 and it does exactly the same, boots then goes to a 640X480 4 bit screen saying "The catalyst control centre is not supported by the driver version of your enabled graphics adapter.please upgrade your ATI graphics driver, or enable your ATI adapter using the display manager".

It doesn't appear to like S15.
Cannot get it to switch to 15khz.
Just get the above.
Maybe another EDID safety feature?

Many thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wilch on July 27, 2010, 12:39:10 pm
ok i completely wiped then reinstalled catalyst 6.5, but still get no 321x240.

i soldered a 1k ohms resistor to vga 13 and one to vga 14. now i get no image at all. i cant open the vga side of the cable so i chopped the wires at the scart end and joined them back up with the resistors that way, i checked for continuity and all was fine... now i'm wondering if the resistors MUST be connected to the actual pins on the vga side
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: deano7 on July 27, 2010, 07:47:18 pm
Hi sailor,  I posted the pics a few days ago (a few posts up - Ikari Warriors game).  This is what happens when using both my 9400 and 7200 Nvidia card.  What do you think, do you think I need the dongle?  If so, what do they cost and how do I order one?  thanks!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sosetsuken on July 28, 2010, 06:13:05 am
Hey SailorSat,

What Language to you program Soft15Khz in?  And is there any chance for an Opensource Soft15khz?

Thanks :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 28, 2010, 06:21:34 am
Visual Basic 6
And it may become open source someday.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wilch on July 30, 2010, 07:14:05 am
i know the scart thread would be more appropriate for my question, but this thread seems much busier so i'll post it in both.

i'm starting fresh on a new vga-rgb scart. my new vga cable arrived and it seems much better quality than the last. pin 9 is present and the RGB wires each have their own shielding.
can i use vga pin 9 instead of bridging scart 16 - 20? does a radeon 9250 pin 9 give out 5v?

UPDATE: on closer inspection i've realised this cable is designed differently. vga grounding pins 6,7,8,10 all share a common link with each other and the shielding/casing. there is a small sheet of metal connecting the pins, but there are no wires. the shielded RGB wires have an additional wire wrapped around them within the shielding which i may be able to solder to the corresponding scart RGB grounding pins. would it be ok having all ground pins on both vga and scart side being linked. there is no wire coming from vga pin 5 at all
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lodoss118 on July 30, 2010, 06:51:36 pm
Hi guys i also have an ATI 5670 and when i install soft 15khz on arcade monitor the desktop goes to 4 bit colour and i get this error

"The catalyst control centre is not supported by the driver version of your enabled graphics adapter.please upgrade your ATI graphics driver, or enable your ATI adapter using the display manager".

I can confirm soft 15khz does not work on thew new ati 5000 series.

Do we need a edid dongle?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lodoss118 on July 30, 2010, 06:52:19 pm
forgot to say if i connect to my tft screen it works fine though?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 31, 2010, 03:08:05 am
So I will have to try, but I doubt they did something stupid.
Limiting a card to 640x480 is one thing, but VGA mode only is something totaly different =)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lodoss118 on July 31, 2010, 04:10:34 am
is there anyway to install the older catalyst drivers like on the hd4000 series, on the new ati 5000 series like modifying the ini file?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 31, 2010, 05:49:24 am
Basically yes. Don't know which drivers first supported the HD5000s
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wilch on July 31, 2010, 10:24:19 am
hi sailorsat, i have reinstalled catalyst 6.5 and even built a new cable, but still cannot set 321x240 or any other 321x??? resolution... can you give me some modelines to try?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lodoss118 on July 31, 2010, 10:59:45 am
i am abit lazy canyone setup some older drivers for ati 5000 so i can test soft15khz on it :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 31, 2010, 01:02:24 pm
Hm... Wilch, 320x240 doesn't show up either?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lodoss118 on July 31, 2010, 06:57:27 pm
anynews on the ati 5000 series i tried using older cat drivers but still no go i didn't mode the really old ones though?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wilch on August 01, 2010, 08:09:51 am
no 320x240 either. i'd prefer that resolution, but im using radeon 9250 with PAL CRT TV (50/60hz) with windows so i understand 320 is modeX?

this resolution is the most important for me as it's what most of my emulators use natively. there's one thing im confused about: do you name the modeline 321 but really set 320 active lines so windows doesn't go into modeX or is there actually an extra line?

i'd also like to get 320x256 or 321x256 and 640x256 modelines if possible

thanks!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 01, 2010, 08:25:28 am
I'm wondering what exactly is going on.
Not having 320x240 and NOT having 321x240 either is pretty strange.
You seem to be the first person to have problems with a R9250 an cat 6.5.

Best thing would be realtime access to the system, VNC or something like that.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wilch on August 01, 2010, 08:44:15 am
you mean remote access from your side?
we're 6 hours in front here, when would be best to try?

i tried omega and latest catalyst drivers for my card (6.11) and as expected the resolutions were still missing
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: greenoneten on August 03, 2010, 12:30:32 am
Hi SaliorSat,
Is there any news on the EDID dongles yet?
Many thanks
Ian
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 03, 2010, 01:39:32 am
Actually I'm in the process of moving to a new house, so I don't have much time atm. and most stuff is packed away anyway.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wilch on August 03, 2010, 05:37:43 am
i give up. i installed windows xp on a freshly formatted hard drive, installed soft-15khz and STILL get no 321x240 or 321x256. maybe i have a bad hardware/software combination: R9250 PCI, sony trinitron CRT TV, gigabyte ga-p43-ds3 motherboard on 32bit windows xp
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 03, 2010, 07:18:53 am
Send me the registry backup from the soft15khz directory to sailorsat@animeger.de and I'll give it a try over here.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lodoss118 on August 04, 2010, 06:04:48 pm
has anyone tried the new geforce gtx 460 or 480
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lodoss118 on August 05, 2010, 05:50:42 pm
any news in gettting the ati 5000 series working?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: kronixx on August 08, 2010, 05:21:20 am
Hi Guys, Nice forum here i found it when looking for a solution to my soft 15khz problems..

My setup is a Mame cabinet with 26" Nanao monitor/chassis wired to JAMMA, JPAC and Arcade VGA[pci-e] on winxp. I have no problems at all when using the arcade vga.

I really want to run SF4 on this cabinet and the only thing letting me down was the lack of power from the arcade vga so i decided to soft15khz an nvidia 8800gt i have here. Because the card is dual DVI, i am using a DVI -> VGA adapter from the video card. I am plugging into the secondary on the 8800gt after having no luck on the first side. When i fire it up on an LCD screen after installing the soft15 i get the out of range message which i was happy about so i switched it over to the arcade cabinet and fire it up. I get the orange and green light sync on the JPAC but on the screen i see a double picture, side by side. It stays like this until it gets past the windows loading screen and when it goes into windows i get a black screen and the green sync light on the JPAC turns off. I have read the thread here about the EDID dongle and was wondering if this is what would solve my problem or am i missing something obvious here?

EDIT: I had changed the res to 640x480 before restarting the pc after installing soft15 khz

Thanks




Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 08, 2010, 05:25:57 am
Yes and No :)

First, try the other DVI port (just to be sure).

Second, try it with a "standard" VGA monitor next to the cab.
Boot with the VGA monitor connected, then as soon as windows kicks in (and you get the out of range error), try switching the cables. If you get a stable picture now, you need a dongle.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: kronixx on August 08, 2010, 05:36:28 am
If i use the first side of DVI on the video card i get no green sync on the JPAC when plugged to arcade monitor but will get a picture on a standard monitor. When i boot with a standard monitor from the secondary DVI side of my 8800gt i get the "out of range" error straight from boot, using that same connection to the arcade monitor gets me up till the point i described, windows is about to come to desktop and i lose sync and picture goes black. So its half working? :S
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 08, 2010, 06:14:13 am
Like I said, boot with the VGA screen then switch the cables (without turning the system off)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: kronixx on August 08, 2010, 07:00:38 am
Ok, i just did as you suggested.

When i switched the connection and plugged the arcade monitor in i go sync on the JPAC and got a rolling picture on the arcade screen, i played with the v hold and stabalized the picture but it was displaying what i could describe as one full screen folded in half. The picture only took up roughly half the screen and i couldn't really do anything with it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lodoss118 on August 10, 2010, 03:49:23 pm
sailor how hard is it to hack the drivers to support these resolutions, i am sure it is just a registry hack right? will you ever release an article or guide on how to do it?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 10, 2010, 05:48:26 pm
As I don't have a HD5000 series card handy, I can't tell whats the problem :)
But I'll order one this week
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: kronixx on August 11, 2010, 09:29:17 am
When i switched the connection and plugged the arcade monitor in i go sync on the JPAC and got a rolling picture on the arcade screen, i played with the v hold and stabalized the picture but it was displaying what i could describe as one full screen folded in half. The picture only took up roughly half the screen and i couldn't really do anything with it.

So does this mean i need a dongle? Kinda confused here..
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 11, 2010, 10:53:47 am
I think so.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lodoss118 on August 14, 2010, 09:13:19 am
hopefully ati have not done anything stupid with the 5000 series :(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wilch on August 17, 2010, 09:28:30 pm
I'm having trouble with my display running dosbox using VGA-RGB SCART.
Now i understand most dos games used a resolution of 320x200, but the monitor would use rectangular pixel to display the image at 4:3 ratio. When I use aspect correction in dosbox I get the 4:3 image, but the pixels are blurred because the image is stretched using square pixels rather than rectangles. Is this a limitation of using vga-RGB to TV or is there a setting I'm misunderstanding?

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 18, 2010, 01:05:17 am
The Problem is quite simple.

VGA 320x200 (and 640x400) are 70Hz.
As most TVs won't sync to 70Hz we have to use a lower refresh / more vertical lines.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wilch on August 18, 2010, 05:19:13 am
Ok, thanks. Is there any way to get a 4:3 ratio using this setup with DOSBOX without blurring the image? I suppose changing the resolution to 640x480 would do it, but I like to keep the resolution low on the TV. Or is there an optimum config to use with DOSBOX for TV output?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 18, 2010, 08:39:16 am
640x480 won't help either :)

I used to work with a special modeline that has black borders all around.
So the image is 4:3 with borders. Not the best way to do it though :)

P.S. HD5000 on the way, stay tuned folks :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wilch on August 18, 2010, 06:39:10 pm
thats a shame. i'd be interested in that special modlines you mentioned though
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 20, 2010, 12:16:18 pm
On topic...
My HD5450 arrived yesterday and... well... It's quite mysterious!
Basically I can reproduce the 640x480 4Bit (16 Colors) only problem.

But... If I enable the 25 or 31kHz modes, everything works fine.
Seems the card only does a certain amount of resolutions now...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 20, 2010, 02:03:05 pm
Oh boy... ATI finaly blew it...

HD5000+ series cards need a dongle.
No EDID = VGA safe-mode (I'm still trying to find out what the card is sending to my monitor...)

640x480, 800x600 and 1024x768 are upscaled and output at some higher resolution. Looks like 1280x960 with bilinear filtering...
My m2c can't sync it (30-48kHz). I measured 56kHz, 60Hz (1440x900?).

With the "standard" 15kHz dongle the driver crashes (640x480 31kHz, BLACK screen) on boot.
With an "faked" 31kHz dongle it doesn't seem to work either.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wilch on August 20, 2010, 05:57:14 pm
Hi SailorSat, I managed to get a 4:3 ratio with DOSBOX using 368x240. There is a black border around the entire image like you said. Now I'm trying to get the border as small as possible so need some modelines. I see the lowest vertical resolution supported with soft-15khz is x240, can i get this any lower with a custom modeline?

thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lodoss118 on August 20, 2010, 07:10:44 pm
Hi Sailor are you saying even with a dongle it doesn't work? I am thinking of geting a new gfx card anyways maybe a gtx 460. So i was wondering if you still make those e dongles or know a place i can order online?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: greenoneten on August 24, 2010, 02:08:07 am
Hi SaliorSat, Thats a bit bad about HD5000+ but i still need a dongle for my XFX GT240 if thats possible.
Many thanks
Ian
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lodoss118 on August 24, 2010, 07:14:56 am
i also need a dongle sailor moon :@
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lodoss118 on August 26, 2010, 04:06:33 pm
?  :dizzy:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 26, 2010, 04:27:46 pm
I am NOT Sailor Moon :P
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lodoss118 on August 27, 2010, 07:13:19 am
i bet you have the cosplay uniform  >:D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lodoss118 on September 01, 2010, 08:50:13 pm
any news on ati 5000 series
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 02, 2010, 12:24:47 am
I don't want to be impolite, but reading my post would actually help.

It doesn't work.

Also, I don't have all day to play with the drivers. I got a job and several other stuff to do.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Solstar on September 06, 2010, 02:22:18 pm
hi all i have a geforce 800,wil lthis program work with it and how?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: rjpe on September 06, 2010, 07:11:45 pm
Hi SailorSat!

Soft15KHz is a wonderful piece of Software, thank you so much!

It's working with my ATI RADEON HD3650 AGP through a VGA->Scart cable.
I have a problem with the TV... it only displays nicely at 640x480@60hz or 720x480@60hz...
I posted this problem at http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=105268.0 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=105268.0)

Do you have any clue? The 640x288 (progressive) looks like interlaced....
I'm still trying to find other CRT, but it costs a lot having to throw away a 6 months-old tv.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 07, 2010, 12:12:17 am
Most likely its a 100Hz Chassis that doesn't like progressive scan.
Best would be to check with an old SNES.

On the other Hand, 640x288 is 50Hz, try 640x240 (which is 60Hz)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Solstar on September 07, 2010, 05:48:29 am
saliorsat,i'lask again..will it owrk with my geforce 8800?because i have a visrtua striker 99 cabinet,i hooked up the monitor and it just smply doesn't show anything,even if its reocgnized in windows
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 07, 2010, 10:17:51 am
Should work fine with a dongle. Though I'm wondering if Virtua Striker had a 15k/25k/31k Chassis.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Solstar on September 07, 2010, 03:12:47 pm
i don't even know what this dongle is nor where to get it.apparently it has,its double frequencies.i tried an ati radeon sapphire and it works,but only at 30 and at the resolution of 720 x something,and i can only see a "corner" of my dektop...how to fix it? :(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: MonkeyJug on September 08, 2010, 06:27:35 am
ok guys (and SS) - i've literally spent the last 3 days digesting, as best i can, this thread.  ironically, if i'd started from the back, i'd have discovered within 5 minutes that my 5750 card doesn't work with soft15khz!

anyway, can't get that time back now...

i've just popped out and bought a hd4350 and it was working within minutes, with CCC 10.8 installed. i have installed all options in soft15khz, as i believe i should for my particular monitor spec and i can see all the resolutions listed when i run quickres.  i have an arcade cabinet, with a 29" tri-sync LG-Philips monitor.  the exact spec is as follows, as per the sticker on the chassis:

H-Freq: 15/24/31khz
V-Freq: 47-70hz

i have hyperspin setup on my cab, running about 10 different emulators, but MAME will be my main focus of attention.  i have SS's excellent cabMAME 0.139 installed.

i have set the deskop to 640x480, because i also intend to play a fair bit of nullDC, which is also setup to run at the native DC resolution of 640x480.  hyperspin is also set to fullscreen, 640x480.

i shrunk the desktop down as far as it would go using v-size and h-size, then adjusted them accordingly to get the maximum screen size i could - i then came in about 1cm from the edges just to avoid the problem of the screen distorting to much at the edges.


so far so good...



now i believe my problem is this:

my monitor isn't digital - at least i don't think it is.  the controls for v-size etc are wheels/knobs which must be turned, as opposed to buttons that need to be pressed (does this mean it's manual?), ie. when i try to play a game in mame, it adjusts the resolution automatically, as it should per the .ini file in cabMAME, and it looks beautiful, but the screen is off for v-size/pos and h-size/pos, because obvioulsy my screen is calibrated/centered for 640x480.  the majority of games are close height-wise, but way off width wise, only taking up about the middle third segment of the screen...

i need to manually adjust these using the knobs inside the cab to get a particular game to display in the correct aspect ratio, but of course this then has the side-effect of knocking hyperspin out of proportion, and obviously also, my nullDC and other emus like project64.

i understand that there is no 'one-size fits all' solution, and it's just a case of finding a happy medium, but that brings me onto my main question (finally):

so my question is this:

am i screwed because i have an analog monitor?  is this normal practice?  if i was to buy a digital monitor, would i be able to select each resolution in quickres from the desktop, adjust the v/h-size/pos for each one so it is the correct aspect ratio, and save each one in turn.  will the screen positions then be remembered and therefore when i launch a game in mame, will it display correctly without any need to further adjust the v/h-size/pos?  then when i switch back to play nullDC, will it still be there in all her 640x480 beauty?




i'd really appreciate it if someone could actually find the time to read this and help me out.  i know it's long post, but i'm desperate now!

tia
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Brenry on September 13, 2010, 02:03:19 pm
SailorSat: I've upgraded to a multisync WG and using a nvidia gtx 9800 card.  I cant use your registry editor because it blocks out the options for nvidia cards.  Using the nvidia control panel I can pluck in a dozen or more 15khz resolutions which work fine, anything above 288.  But when I go to even lower res like 320x240 the screen will change to that res and I get a popup saying your monitor does not support this resolution.  Which clearly does if I leave the popup open and play a mame game at that res its fine.

Regarding your EDID dongle hack.  Is this all that is needed?  I think i have a couple of these laying around.

Quoted from http://www.overclock.net/ati/47962-way-disable-edid.html (http://www.overclock.net/ati/47962-way-disable-edid.html)

If i remove the two pins from a dvi-vga adapter it will prevent edid info from being sent to windows ?

(http://rigshowcase.com/img/46UKXGT/608)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: newmanfamilyvlogs on September 16, 2010, 09:28:31 am
On my final cab PC I'm using Soft15Khz on an HD4350, but I'm have some resolution issues.

My monitor is a WG K7400. I have tested this monitor with Soft15Khz on another PC using some older generation Radeon and worked fine, removing non-working resolutions and adding everything I expected. However on this new system I'm missing 640x480, and have several higher resolutions the monitor cannot support (eg: 1280x720, 720x480). The other low resolution modes like 320x240, 640x288 work fine.

What am I doing wrong? What's the recommended way of remedying this?

Thanks for the awesome tool.

Edit: picture of end of resolution list:
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_xyVxXgjibE0/TJIgm3uvcSI/AAAAAAAABjQ/uMdlYAOa1B0/s800/VNCviewer%209162010%2094355%20AM.jpg)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Solstar on September 17, 2010, 06:09:53 am
SailorSat: I've upgraded to a multisync WG and using a nvidia gtx 9800 card.  I cant use your registry editor because it blocks out the options for nvidia cards.  Using the nvidia control panel I can pluck in a dozen or more 15khz resolutions which work fine, anything above 288.  But when I go to even lower res like 320x240 the screen will change to that res and I get a popup saying your monitor does not support this resolution.  Which clearly does if I leave the popup open and play a mame game at that res its fine.

Regarding your EDID dongle hack.  Is this all that is needed?  I think i have a couple of these laying around.

Quoted from http://www.overclock.net/ati/47962-way-disable-edid.html (http://www.overclock.net/ati/47962-way-disable-edid.html)

If i remove the two pins from a dvi-vga adapter it will prevent edid info from being sent to windows ?

(http://rigshowcase.com/img/46UKXGT/608)

that's an interesting find,as i have your same video board.now,i ihave two of those dvi ports in my video card,so whenever i had to connect the arcade monitor,i use a vg to dvi adapter.i have to remove those tw pins in the adapter,or in the main dvi cable of my pc monitor?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 17, 2010, 07:25:25 am
@cotmm68030: What catalyst drivers are you using? I use 9.12 currently

@edid pins: there seems to be some missunderstanding... the problem is that there is no edid on arcade screens. so removing the pin won't change anything.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: newmanfamilyvlogs on September 17, 2010, 09:23:36 am
@SailorSat: I was using a newer version of the drivers. I uninstalled them, deleted them, uninstalled the card as well and then re-installed using your recommended 9.12 and re-installed Soft15kHz. The same set of resolutions came up as before.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Brenry on September 22, 2010, 12:42:43 am
:burgerking:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lodoss118 on September 22, 2010, 04:22:51 pm
sailorsat i need an edongle for my 4850 card on my tri synch arcade monitor, i have to connect to a pc monitor first then set it to 640 then plug in
my arcade monitor then it is in synchwhich is weird i thought ati 4850 would work out of the box?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: cyb on September 23, 2010, 03:57:19 pm
I'm having a bit of a problem switching to low resolutions.

I'm using an nvidia 6600gt with windows xp 32 bit.

I use a vga->scart cable, which plugs in to my rgb scart->component converter which runs to my crt tv. (i live in US so scart tvs are not available here) anyway, when the desktop is at 640x480i the picture looks fine, but if I try to switch to a lowe res, 320x240 for example, the screen becomes all messed up and rolls a bit. could it be a sync issue? I didn't make the cable, I purchased it from ebay, but it said it would work with soft15khz. should I try an ATI card?  I don't think the rgb converter is the problem, it works fine with all of my retro consoles.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: 81ramirez on October 06, 2010, 05:00:24 pm
@SailorSat: If I understood it right, you don't do the edid dongles anymore. But it's still needed for who have some vgas(8800 for example), and there is no way to emulate the edid information without it.
If i'm right, could you post the edid information you burned in those eeproms and the right way to connect it to the vga connector?

And do you know if this one would work?
http://www.hallresearch.com/page/Products/EM-EDID-HD15 (http://www.hallresearch.com/page/Products/EM-EDID-HD15)
They charge you an extra if you want other resolutions programed in it.
Aparently they ship it around the globe, but I would prefer to do one my self if possible(or just buy yours, who is a respected member of this comunity). Thanks...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 07, 2010, 01:47:53 am
Thats not entirely correct.

I still do dongles, but currently only on request and it usually takes up to 4 weeks.

I'll upload the dongle stuff (specs'n'rom) soon.
Theres actualy two versions right now.
First the classic version with a "special" EDID IC; it keeps everything very small and simple.
And the "cheap" version with a standard I2C serial eeprom and a few resistors. Cheap standard components but may not fit a small case anymore.

I believe best would be a small pcb layout. Then I'd go for a small series production and just solder the connectors on and upload the firmware.

Whatever...
holiday time incoming! (still two weeks at work though)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: dosmame on October 30, 2010, 12:12:56 am
Hi, I wonder if somebody could help with my issue

specs
4350 HD (drivers v10.10, and I've tried 9.20)
WG K7000 @ 15Khz
J-PAC (with 15khz & 31khz jumpers set)
Windows (tried XP, XP64 and Windows 7)

From a fresh install;

I install the catalyst drivers
Install soft15khz, selecting 15khz for both 'cards'
Run quickres and selected 640x480
reboot

I see the BIOS halved
I see windows loading halved
But i get a blank screen after the desktop

If I plug into an LCD I get invalid video input, so I know it's set something

If I go to safe mode on the LCD and roll back the reg files and reboot, I get a halved screen

Randomly, I got the desktop good once. But after I rebooted, it was back to halved

any suggestions ? am I doing this right ?

PS quick res only shows the standard resolutions, is that normal?

TIA
DM
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: dosmame on October 30, 2010, 09:19:25 pm
Hi, I wonder if somebody could help with my issue

specs
4350 HD (drivers v10.10, and I've tried 9.20)
WG K7000 @ 15Khz
J-PAC (with 15khz & 31khz jumpers set)
Windows (tried XP, XP64 and Windows 7)

From a fresh install;

I install the catalyst drivers
Install soft15khz, selecting 15khz for both 'cards'
Run quickres and selected 640x480
reboot

I see the BIOS halved
I see windows loading halved
But i get a blank screen after the desktop

If I plug into an LCD I get invalid video input, so I know it's set something

If I go to safe mode on the LCD and roll back the reg files and reboot, I get a halved screen

Randomly, I got the desktop good once. But after I rebooted, it was back to halved

any suggestions ? am I doing this right ?

PS quick res only shows the standard resolutions, is that normal?

TIA
DM

got it working....i was using the 15 pin d then the video would swap to DVI for some stupid reason....got it plugged into the DVI now, works a treat! great software, thanks ;-)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: DizzyNYC on November 08, 2010, 12:51:44 am
Hey Guys!
Here are my new specs:
WG K7191
Nvidia Quadro NVS 280 wSoft15k
JPAC
Current Working Resolution: 800 x 600 

Small issue I haven't figured out and I've been playing with the resolution but it hasn't helped.

Get half screens until boot.
Boot looks fine except the start menu blurred and barely visible.
When I try to change to 640 x 480 I get constant flickering. Anything that goes 000 X 288 seems to be stable. However, I still see this white blurry bar at the bottom of the screen. I've tweaked the v-hold, vertical and horizontal settings. Nothing. Other resolution settings just make the screen jump. I've searched the boards and read some threads, but I still can't figure this out.
I'm assuming its a resolution setting. I'm also worried that I possibly screwed the 91 up.  Pictures in the A.M.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: DizzyNYC on November 08, 2010, 01:31:18 am
Gonna tweak the 50 60hz pot later tonight. See if that resolves it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: S_Akuma on November 18, 2010, 12:04:21 pm
My problems have been solved.. Moved to winXP64 and installed the catalyst 8.7 CD software for the HD 4550.  Windows 7 64bit did not work for me.  My arcade monitor sees 800 x 600 and bellow.. Taito Type 2 games are know playable.  I also installed this costum15khz.txt..............Thank you very much SailorSat for the cool software

I can also confirm that ATI HD 5000 series do not work with soft15khz.

# -= 15KHz Progressive =-
modeline '240x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 5,16592 240 264 288 328 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 5,417916 256 280 304 344 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '288x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 6,173904 288 320 352 392 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 6,299902 296 328 360 400 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '304x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 6,551898 304 336 368 416 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '320x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 6,803894 320 352 384 432 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '336x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 7,181888 336 368 400 456 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '368x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 7,811878 368 408 440 496 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '392x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 8,315871 392 432 472 528 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '448x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 9,575851 448 496 544 608 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 10,961829 512 568 616 696 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 13,607788 640 704 768 864 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x256-15,750KHz-55,456Hz' 5,417829 256 280 304 344 256 260 264 284 -hsync -vsync
modeline '320x256-15,750KHz-55,456Hz' 6,803786 320 352 384 432 256 260 264 284 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x256-15,750KHz-55,456Hz' 7,559762 352 392 424 480 256 260 264 284 -hsync -vsync
modeline '400x256-15,750KHz-54,686Hz' 8,567765 400 440 480 544 256 261 266 288 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x264-15,750KHz-54,497Hz' 5,417874 256 280 304 344 264 268 272 289 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x264-15,750KHz-54,497Hz' 7,559824 352 392 424 480 264 268 272 289 -hsync -vsync
modeline '632x264-15,750KHz-54,497Hz' 13,481686 632 696 760 856 264 268 272 289 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x288-15,750KHz-50,808Hz' 7,56023 352 392 424 480 288 291 294 310 -hsync -vsync
modeline '384x288-15,750KHz-50,808Hz' 8,19025 384 424 464 520 288 291 294 310 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x288-15,750KHz-50,808Hz' 10,962334 512 568 616 696 288 291 294 310 -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x288-15,750KHz-50,808Hz' 13,608415 640 704 768 864 288 291 294 310 -hsync -vsync

# -= 15KHz Interlace =-
modeline '640x480-15,750KHz-60iHz' 13,608 640 704 768 864 480 486 492 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline '720x480-15,750KHz-60iHz' 15,372 720 792 864 976 480 486 492 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline '512x512-15,750KHz-54,497iHz' 10,961745 512 568 616 696 512 521 530 578 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline '800x600-15,750KHz-50iHz' 17,136 800 880 960 1088 600 604 608 630 -hsync -vsync interlace


# -= remove fake 1024x768 =-
remove 1024x768



Original Post
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

SailorSat,
Thank you very much for soft15khz.. cool software.

My setup
i7-950, Windows 7 64bit, catalyst 9.2, Gigabyte ATI 4550, arcade monitor WG2056424 USA, soft15khz.


640x480 and bellow resolutions works great:)

700x and above resolutions gives me a side by side image (display is repeated twice horizontally)

I would like to add 720 x 480 resolutions and 800 x 600 if possible. I'm looking for the right modeline to add to a custom15khz.txt or usermodes.txt.  I have tried a few but they don't show up on quickress

Your help is highly appreciated

S_Akuma
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ahofle on November 18, 2010, 08:56:07 pm
Can anyone recommend the best AGP card that works perfectly with Soft15khz?  I think it's time to replace my old Radeon 9800, but I'm stuck with AGP unfortunately.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: deega on November 27, 2010, 01:42:52 pm
I'm pulling my hair out!

Motherboard: Compaq P5LP-LE, which I believe was made by ASUS by the model number font.  Has onboard Intel graphics set as primary in BIOS
Video: Sapphire Radeon HD4650 512MB PCI-E Model 100253HDMI-64BITL
Monitor: K4600 which probably needs a capkit.
OS: XP SP3, NOT nlite-ed
Catalyst: 9.8
Video Driver: ATI Radeon HD 4600 Series, 7/14/2009, version 8.640.0
Soft-15KHz + QuickRes from 2 days ago

Let me see if I can organize this properly.

Booting with onboard video disabled and the monitor attached to the HD 4650 I can see the BIOS output and Windows startup, though slanted, but once the driver is loaded I get no display.

Booting with onboard video disabled and a VGA monitor attached, I can swap cables after the driver loads and see a display.  There are problems with sync, though, which may be related to the monitor needing some work.  I'll go into more on this below.

Booting with onboard video enabled and the monitor attached to the HD 4650 I only see some flicker as the drivers are loading, then nothing.

Booting with onboard video enabled and a VGA monitor attached to the HD 4650 I can swap cables after drivers are loaded and see a display.  Same problem as above and detailed below.

Questions:

There MUST be some way to tell ATI drivers to NOT check for EDID and treat the adapter as if it has an unidentified monitor attached, right?  I do not want to deal with a dongle.

With the onboard video enabled and a VGA monitor attached to it so I can work with the problem, the HD 4650 must be set in Windows as the primary display or quickres will not work properly.  Is there some way to make QuickRes work on a secondary display??  How about an alternative to quickres?

Now the weirdest thing, and this may be related to the K4600 having old and dry caps in it, but I have managed to get the monitor to sync with my LCD's resolution of 1366x768.  Sure, there were three images displayed, but it synced!  I've also been able to sync at VGA 640x480 with two images displayed.  I have NOT, however, been able to sync at 320x240 using Soft15KHz..  I can ALMOST adjust it to sync, but cannot get rid of a very slow roll both V and H.  Could this mean I need some modelines??

Thanks a bunch, everyone, for getting me this far!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 27, 2010, 05:41:36 pm
Try the external card only, and use the OTHER connector (DVI most likely)
Black screen in windows = wrong connector used.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: deega on November 27, 2010, 10:47:39 pm
Thanks for the super fast, and accurate, reply.  This is exactly what I did and it does work.  I would have preferred to have a second head on this thing while I'm configuring it, but in the end it's going to be the lonely K4600 anyways..  Now it's on to using a laptop + VNC and RDP.  No biggie.  I'm looking forward to my Mouser delivery so I can REALLY see this monitor light up!

Thanks for all your time and effort in building and supporting this valuable tool.  :notworthy:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Jollywest on December 13, 2010, 03:44:54 am
Hi,

Does Soft-15khz support Vista 64-bit yet? I see in the wiki FAQ that it says it should but it doesn't as of yet, but I not sure how up to date the FAQ is.

I could use Vista Home Premium 64-bit and XP 32-bit as I have both, and I would love to use Soft-15khz rather than Powerstrip as it looks like a cracking peice of software.
I would prefer to use Vista because of the FPS improvements you get from using 64 bit OS's with MAME64, as the following site points out;

MAME Benchmarks (http://www.mameui.info/Bench.htm)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 13, 2010, 09:22:06 am
You can also use XP64 to get 64bit.

No Vista.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Gray_Area on December 13, 2010, 08:12:30 pm
You can also use XP64 to get 64bit.

No Vista.

I don't know why people are still using Vista, really.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: newmanfamilyvlogs on December 13, 2010, 08:21:51 pm
As far as I can tell by vista she also means win7. I don't think I've heard one person use it on win7 properly.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: dmarcum99 on December 14, 2010, 04:55:06 pm
Hi SailorSat!

Are there are downsides to using the ATI 4350 like pixel clock limitations or resolution limitations?  Just checking before I buy a 2nd hand card.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: mikev43 on December 14, 2010, 11:46:38 pm
Hi,

I have a Matrox Millennium G400 dual head and a radeon hd 2600 pro both AGP..

Do either of these work?  I tried it with the Matrox and it doesn't let me select a card.  Will the radeon work?

thanks!

edit...

got it working as I installed the latest drivers directly from matrox... windows default which was mentioned don't work..
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 15, 2010, 12:52:09 am
Are there are downsides to using the ATI 4350 like pixel clock limitations or resolution limitations?
None that I know of :)


I have a Matrox Millennium G400 dual head and a radeon hd 2600 pro both AGP..
The HD2600 should work fine.
For the Matrox you'll need to use the "old" PowerDesk 5.96 or something like that.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Jollywest on December 15, 2010, 04:07:03 pm
You can also use XP64 to get 64bit.

No Vista.

Thanks for the reply.

I am going to try to utilise the OS's I have so will try XP 32-bit with Soft-15khz and a compiled version of MAME and see how the performance is first, and then go from there.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: BigDaddyE on December 20, 2010, 12:27:19 pm
Salior Sat-

Alot of people on this board have been trying to help me and before I buy a new graphics card, I thought I would ask your opinion.

I have struggled over a month with a new mobo. I have an AMD 890GX Chipset with ATI Radeon HD 4290 and I also use this to run a CRT arcade monitor. I can use WIn 7 64 (preferred), however, I could also use Win XP 32 or 64 (not perferred.

It has been mentioned in passing that Win 7 is not nice to Soft 15, just wanted to know your thoughts.

Thanks.

Eric
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 20, 2010, 05:01:31 pm
Use XP (32 or 64 doesn't matter)
Oh an don't use the "newest" driver =)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: mikev43 on December 22, 2010, 12:47:31 am
I have a question...

After I run soft15k and install it how exactly do I know the game uses whatever the game was intended to?  Using tab I know brings up the menu and you can select screen type but not sure about resolution..

I'm using GameEX to launch my games also.. does this force certain resolutions etc?  How much better is it with this program?

btw I'm using a 19" crt monitor made by cybervision.. it's a REALLY sweet monitor..
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: BigDaddyE on December 22, 2010, 08:04:36 am
Use XP (32 or 64 doesn't matter)
Oh an don't use the "newest" driver =)

Just to be clear, newest driver for the Radon card. If that is the case, that shouldn't be an issue, I will load the drivers that came with the MOBO, which are at least 3 months old.

Thanks

Eric
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: 0raid on December 29, 2010, 03:29:36 pm
hello guys!

i am try to setup my mame cabin , i have connect the jpac and the keyboard is running perfectly now (thanks andy for the help)

now i have a problem with the soft15khz , i have nvidia 7600gt , i am getting a windows picture in 640x480 but the picture is very blur and is interlacing a lot!!

how i can get a prograssive stable picture at 640x480??

ps1 my arcade monitor is the hantarex polo 25

ps2 the drivers that i have is the 162.18 (with more new driver i get wrong picture)

ps3 the resolutions that is working very good (stable , clear pictture is 368x240 , 320x240 ,304x240 , all the other resolution i get wrong picture or with lines)

Thank you!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: MonMotha on December 30, 2010, 03:38:30 am
OK, I'd really like to know what's up with the 1024x768 50Hz interlace option in the "15kHz" list.  The math on that doesn't seem to work out: even with no vsync or blanking intervals, you still end up at 19.2kHz, which is a little higher than I'd normally be willing to push a standard res monitor.  Adding in at least a few lines for vsync and a couple blanked lines on the top and bottom pushes you up even further into the 20kHz type range.

You'd need about a 40Hz field rate to get the horizontal scanrate down to 15kHz, which is 1) going to flicker terribly, and 2) probably outside the design range for vertical refresh on most monitors, anyway.

Can anyone shed some light on this?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 30, 2010, 05:05:21 am
1024x768 is more like 1024x600 with virtual scrolling.
some applications don't work with lower resolution (for example the setup tool for some keyboard encoder...)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: MonMotha on December 30, 2010, 04:31:38 pm
OK, so it is panned?  That makes things work.

I ask because someone recently had a monitor die while running in this mode.  While I haven't gotten a chance to look over it, it sounds like the classic "fed it too high frequency and blew up the horizontal output stage" thing, and I couldn't figure out how 1024x768 50Hz could get anywhere near 15kHz.  Perhaps the failure was coincidental.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: BigDaddyE on January 05, 2011, 12:19:34 pm
Hey all, again, I hope that the community will be able to help me.

Thought I would drop a line in this thread, since my posts on the monitor/video haven't gotten much response.

Here is what I have for CPU and hardware:

Biostar 890 GXB mobo
AMD Quadcore
ATI Radeon 4250 HD on board graphics
Catalyst
         Driver Packaging Version   8.70-100113a-095110C  
         2D Driver Version   6.14.10.7050  
         Direct3D Version   6.14.10.0728  
         OpenGL Version   6.14.10.9405  
         Catalyst™ Control Center Version   2010.0113.2208.39662  
Soft 15 - build 50
Nieman 24.5" monitor
MAME 0.140

Long story on how I got here, private email me if you want more or check the Win7 64 thread I have on the software thread.

I have a stable picture running at 640 x 480, I am using only the 15 kHz option soft 15. However, once I command line MAME in games, when MAME automatically switches the res, I get rolling screens or worse.

On some games, like MAPPY, I can adjust with vertical hold to stabilize the screen, however, this screws the desktop up, among other things.

I have attached a few pics of various games (Brubber, Lady Bug, Mappy, Mario Bros). I adjusted hold for Mappy (no reason, just the first one I picked).

I have used ARCADEVGA2 in the past with no issues.

Let me know what other info is needed, I will do my best to supply it.

Thank You very much.

Eric
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 05, 2011, 03:14:22 pm
Windows 7? Won't work :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: BigDaddyE on January 05, 2011, 04:09:00 pm
Sorry for the confusion, poorly written blog.

The pictures taken were with the above specs and the Win XP 32 SP3 OS.

Thanks.

Eric
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: BigDaddyE on January 08, 2011, 12:46:24 pm
Any idea on how to remove all traces of soft15 out of the registry?

In working with Andy and my VGA2 card, it seems that the card is thinking that my monitor is a 15, 25 and 31 kHz, vs just a 15 kHz. When I was playing around with soft15, I did play with all 3 buttons and I found no good way to remove soft15.

This maybe what the issue is, right now.

Thanks.

Eric
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: doldrim on January 26, 2011, 10:43:07 am
Maybe someone can help me with my current issue. I have just installed a JPAC in my MK2 cab with winxp running soft15khz and cabmame, using a geforce 6800 GT.

I get the split screen during boot on my arcade monitor and my PC monitor goes out of range when soft15khz is running, while in the arcade monitor using quickres I can get a stable 640x480 desktop, so i'm guessing that means soft15khz and my jpac are working fine. When i run cabmame, however, things are not as nice.

Basically, it seems that in any resolution other than 640x480 my screen goes crazy. 320x240 seems to be split into 4 screens in each corner with slight distortions (using switchres 1 in cabmame, or using quickres). Some other resolutions are completely scrambled while others are better, but almost all are unusable outside of 640x480. When I switch cabmame's switchres 0 using a 640x480 desktop in quickres, i am able to run games fine, however they are now placed inside a small window in the middle of the screen.

I saw some people saying they had 6800 GT and they ended up buying ATI cards, but I wanted to make sure this is not a settings thing before I go out and buy another card (and have the same problem). Some screenshots attached, if anyone has ideas about my set up or knows if 6800 GT will not work, let me know. Thanks.

http://imgur.com/UO2G7.jpg (http://imgur.com/UO2G7.jpg)
http://imgur.com/zf8Pk.jpg (http://imgur.com/zf8Pk.jpg)
http://imgur.com/kdpwL.jpg (http://imgur.com/kdpwL.jpg)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 26, 2011, 10:57:28 am
What driver are you using? You COULD try an older one, like 71.84.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: doldrim on January 26, 2011, 11:54:40 am
What driver are you using? You COULD try an older one, like 71.84.
I believe i'm on 93.71. I've also tried on latest driver with no luck.

I'll try out 71.84 when I get back from work, thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: DumpsterMax on January 28, 2011, 04:59:23 am
Using soft 15khz and cabmame I can get any horizontal game to look and sound awesome on my cabinet (horizontal monitor). When I first got my cabinet and started setting it up I thought the games would look decent, but honestly it blows me away how good games look using this combination of programs!  :applaud:

 But when I try to play a vertical game (rotated appropriately for my horizontal monitor) one of two things happens.. either the game is stretched to the complete horizontal width of the screen (looks crappy IMO) or the game is just floating in the middle with thick black borders around it. I've tried changing settings around in mame.ini to get it to stretch to the top and bottom edges, but the game doesn't look very crisp like this, and this configuration messes up how good my horizontal games look.

I've also tried changing the resolutions in my mame.xml file but it never seems to change anything unless I rotate the game 90 degrees, as if I had it vertically oriented.

Any feedback would help a lot.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 28, 2011, 08:21:02 am
Thats actually a not-yet-implemented feature of cabmame. I haven't figured out a decent logic on selecting resolutions.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: DumpsterMax on January 28, 2011, 02:37:55 pm
So the settings inside my mame.xml won't change anything if the game is being rotated 90 degrees?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: maiki on February 18, 2011, 07:10:47 pm
OK just for curiosity, can somebody post images of ADVV where his SCART RGB TV displays 240 active lines at 60 Hz? And then show a video mode running on the same TV at 55 Hz? As far as I know, TVs will swtich basically between "2 modes" one being for 50 hZ PAL and second one for 60 Hz "PAL/NTSC". The switching is very visible and affects the vertical active portion of the screen. As I said in the past in this thread. I tested 2 TVs and bopth failed to display 240 scanlines at 60 Hz. They were out of picture no matter what I did with the display settings... I was just lucky to get 224+ scanlines at 60 Hz.... YOu know, making a thread here is one thing, but we have to clearly say, TV is not an arcade monitor...

edit: should have been put into SCART as a hobby but never mind...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: rjpe on February 23, 2011, 01:57:38 pm
Hi SailorSat,

Finally got a 28'' TV that works / syncs the original resolutions with soft15KHz and AVGA! (Crown ACTV 7298).  ;D
It cost me 50€ in a local on-line auction, it has 3 years old and the image is great.

Besides frogger (it syncs in a very high resolution, have to check why), all games display those beautiful scanlines, and the games look authentic... but... none of them fits correctly in full screen.
I can choose one resolution, arrange the geometry and so, but I will still have problems on all the others.

For instance:
- bubble bobble, double dragon and black tiger look too thin (like a vertical game) - horizontal black stripes;
- golden axe has 1 inch black frame around it;
- indiana jones and Pang don't fit the screen (overscan);

maybe the ones that look better are marvel super heroes and ghouls n ghosts.

My question is: is there a way of making all the resolutions fit the screen?  :banghead:
I suspect that the only way is with hardware strecth... but I must check with the best experts  ;)

 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 23, 2011, 02:15:01 pm
Well basically it could be done for the horizontal part, as one scanline is one scanline is one scanline.
It doesn't matter how often the scanline changes color, so you can have pretty much endless modes pixel width wise.

However this won't work for the amount of scanlines.

Short version. Horizontal "equality" is possible, but you will need to live with black bars above and below for some games.

Arcade games (technically) were never supposed to be changed every 5 minutes. So the operator usually would adjust the screen once the game was changed.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: rjpe on February 23, 2011, 03:40:39 pm
Thanks SailorSat.

What normally is done in scart tv cabinets? From your answer I assume that for real Arcade Monitors the problem is the same?

Either your CabMAME or some mame linux distros are said to be ideal for arcade monitors or scart tv setups, but what does this means is terms of resolutions? Special modelines?

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: milhouse on February 23, 2011, 05:06:23 pm
Two questions, as I am thinking of switching from an older ArcadeVGA to Soft-15KHZ. Main reasons - AAE and Sega Model 2 emulator.

1. Does anyone have a custom15khz.txt they could share for a Betson Imperial Tri-Sync (Technically, 27" DIGITAL MULTI SYNC RAW THRL. Item #: IMP 44-4070-RT)

2. I am planning on using a Radeon X800GTO that I already have.  Can anyone tell me which catalyst drivers I should use? I know it shouldn't be the "latest" drivers, but thats relative.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Mellor on March 01, 2011, 01:56:30 pm
Wondering if anyone can help me with a graphics card choice.

I have used my Radeon X1950 XTX before with soft 15khz with no problems, I was outputting to a 15khz Nanao monitor with only 15khz installed and all was good! I'm on a new build now with a Pentranic Tri-Sync monitor. All 3 modes were installed and I selected 640x480 with Quickres and then put it in my cab. The signal killed my monitor, not had a look yet but more than likely the HOT.

Now I spoke to a very competent monitor repair guy and he says it is likely the card is outputting over 60hz or 31khz, even though its in them modes. The chassis is a Rodotron 666a and will not take anything above that, something I was trying to be safe with by removing all above 480 modes in a custom31khz.txt!

Do we know of a graphics card that is definitely safe and compatible with Soft 15khz, one that will run Street Fighter 4 in 640x480 with V-sync??

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Brenry on March 18, 2011, 03:20:29 pm
.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Tlk269 on March 22, 2011, 10:14:38 pm
Help me here please
I have a 25" monitor in my cabinet
I bought the J-pac and i have a pc with a Ati 4550
I installed the last drivers and cataclysm
I installed Soft 15khz and set it to the 15Khz
i can´t change the resolution under 640*480 not even with quickres
When the cabinet boots i get the sync light and i can see the windows xp logo in double
but when it get to windows the sync light on j-pac turns off and can´t see anything...
i tried with and without hyperspin on startup
can anyone help me pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 23, 2011, 02:28:07 am
First: Try the other output (might need a DVI-to-VGA Adapter)

Second: Try older drivers.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Tlk269 on March 23, 2011, 07:41:16 am
First: Try the other output (might need a DVI-to-VGA Adapter)

Second: Try older drivers.

I am going to try it when i get home after work
But will i need to put the resolution under 640*480 or is it ok to keep it that way?
Hope that works i am going crazy :(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Tlk269 on March 24, 2011, 07:43:05 pm
Help me here please (sorry for bad english..)
After i use a vga to dvi adaptar the image actually appear
the problem is the image is too much to the right..
i put a custom15khz.txt in my desktop where i have soft15khz program with this lines:

modeline '240x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 5,16592 240 264 288 328 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 5,417916 256 280 304 344 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '288x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 6,173904 288 320 352 392 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 6,299902 296 328 360 400 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '304x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 6,551898 304 336 368 416 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '320x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 6,803894 320 352 384 432 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '336x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 7,181888 336 368 400 456 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '368x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 7,811878 368 408 440 496 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '392x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 8,315871 392 432 472 528 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '448x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 9,575851 448 496 544 608 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 10,961829 512 568 616 696 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 13,607788 640 704 768 864 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x256-15,750KHz-55,456Hz' 5,417829 256 280 304 344 256 260 264 284 -hsync -vsync
modeline '320x256-15,750KHz-55,456Hz' 6,803786 320 352 384 432 256 260 264 284 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x256-15,750KHz-55,456Hz' 7,559762 352 392 424 480 256 260 264 284 -hsync -vsync
modeline '400x256-15,750KHz-54,686Hz' 8,567765 400 440 480 544 256 261 266 288 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x264-15,750KHz-54,497Hz' 5,417874 256 280 304 344 264 268 272 289 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x264-15,750KHz-54,497Hz' 7,559824 352 392 424 480 264 268 272 289 -hsync -vsync
modeline '632x264-15,750KHz-54,497Hz' 13,481686 632 696 760 856 264 268 272 289 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x288-15,750KHz-50,808Hz' 7,56023 352 392 424 480 288 291 294 310 -hsync -vsync
modeline '384x288-15,750KHz-50,808Hz' 8,19025 384 424 464 520 288 291 294 310 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x288-15,750KHz-50,808Hz' 10,962334 512 568 616 696 288 291 294 310 -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x288-15,750KHz-50,808Hz' 13,608415 640 704 768 864 288 291 294 310 -hsync -vsync

and using 320x240 as resolution, then reboot and still didn´t work

Help me pleaseeee
thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tony.silveira on March 24, 2011, 09:36:06 pm
hey sailor sat,

been using soft 15 for a while now (thank you so much).  i recently moved and changed my room around and am trying to get things working differently.

with soft 15, i am using interlaced 1024x768 at 84hz (i believe) on my arcade machine.  but i also have my machine feeding video to my home office desk area and also a projector.  the projector is fine as i am using the hdmi out on my video card and mirroring the display to that port.

but to my desk area, where i would like to use the pc in my arcade machine as a desktop, my monitor can't synch with the video being output by soft 15.

so long story to get to a feature request (if it's even possible).  hot keys to change resolutions?  i have them in my ati control panel but i think soft 15 is over riding anything i do in there.

thank again for such a fine tool
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 25, 2011, 02:49:37 am
Hm.. I'll look into it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Tlk269 on March 25, 2011, 06:10:05 am
SailorSat, please help me in the problem above
tell me how to have my image centered please
Thanks for your time
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 25, 2011, 09:36:00 am
1st question - why custom modelines?
2nd question - you DID try to adjust your monitor by using the monitors controls?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Tlk269 on March 25, 2011, 10:29:07 am
1st question - why custom modelines?
2nd question - you DID try to adjust your monitor by using the monitors controls?

Hi SailorSat
I tried modelines because without them the image is even more to the right.
And the only buttons i can see in that arcade monitor is to focus the image and to give more or less light..
how am i going to make it work? i am getting crazzy
i already spent a lot of money in it to not getting it to work
please help me
thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 25, 2011, 11:06:26 am
You should try to locate the "remote control"-board for your monitor.

Grab a copy of
http://www.andysarcade.de/data/coinop/videogames/raster%20monitors/intervideo/intervideo_vp_series.pdf (http://www.andysarcade.de/data/coinop/videogames/raster%20monitors/intervideo/intervideo_vp_series.pdf)

Though It might be not exactly the exact model you have, it should point you in the right direction.


Other than that... Well you can try the modeline editor, but there are limits on how far you can move/stretch the image.
http://files.arianchen.de/soft15khz/mledit.zip (http://files.arianchen.de/soft15khz/mledit.zip)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tony.silveira on March 25, 2011, 01:42:45 pm
Hm.. I'll look into it.

thanks sailor sat!  actually, to clear up my feature request, hot keys would be to change resolution AND sync rate.

thanks again for just looking into it!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Tlk269 on March 25, 2011, 08:40:31 pm
You should try to locate the "remote control"-board for your monitor.

Grab a copy of
http://www.andysarcade.de/data/coinop/videogames/raster%20monitors/intervideo/intervideo_vp_series.pdf (http://www.andysarcade.de/data/coinop/videogames/raster%20monitors/intervideo/intervideo_vp_series.pdf)

Though It might be not exactly the exact model you have, it should point you in the right direction.


Other than that... Well you can try the modeline editor, but there are limits on how far you can move/stretch the image.
http://files.arianchen.de/soft15khz/mledit.zip (http://files.arianchen.de/soft15khz/mledit.zip)

SailorSat i could kiss you now :) i went to see the manual as you said and there is actually one like mine
http://www.andysarcade.de/data/coinop/videogames/raster%20monitors/intervideo/intervideo%20dual%20frequency%20monitor%20instruction%20manual%20-%20lores.pdf (http://www.andysarcade.de/data/coinop/videogames/raster%20monitors/intervideo/intervideo%20dual%20frequency%20monitor%20instruction%20manual%20-%20lores.pdf)
and i made it :)
I love you :p
for now the only problem is the red color.. really stronggg
i need to try to correct it

One more thing,
In the 5th page is written about 25khz, do you think i could/should use it?
is it ok and i would get a better image?

You are the best THANKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS A LOTTTTTTTTTTTT
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: krick on April 03, 2011, 01:06:31 am
Windows 7? Won't work :)

Any particular reason that Windows 7 won't work?  Something different about the driver architecture?

How does Ultimarc make the ArcadeVGA work with Windows 7?

I'd like to move to Windows 7 64-bit for the performance boost in MAME, but this is a showstopper.  :(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 03, 2011, 07:39:04 am
Well the ArcadeVGA (and it's drivers) is a complete different approach (hacked bios/drivers).

For unknown reason, Windows 7 seems very strict on resolutions:
 - Everything above 640x480 works fine.
 - Everything below, doesn't show up.

Another problem would be, the new registry format. ATI didn't change much, but NVidia completely changed their drivers registry format.

IIRC you either have low resolutions (in 31+ kHz) or you have low frequency (in 640x480 and higher)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: newmanfamilyvlogs on April 06, 2011, 06:40:16 am
SailorSat,
I've been tinkering with 31kHz modes that are 2X scaled from the 15kHz modes for use with bitbytebit's GroovyMame, which does runtime modeline re-calculation from existing resolutions in the display list.

I've been trying different front porch values but keep getting the screen 'curled over' on the left hand side, even at 640x480. Can you suggest a better way of doing these?
Code: [Select]
Modeline "704x512@60" 27.64 704 736 824 856 512 522 527 538 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "512x480@60" 19.32 512 544 600 632 480 490 495 505 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "480x480@60" 18.25 480 512 568 600 480 490 495 505 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "512x512@60" 20.73 512 544 608 640 512 522 527 538 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "608x480@60" 22.54 608 640 704 736 480 490 495 505 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "640x480@60" 23.61 640 672 744 776 480 490 495 505 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "640x512@60" 25.33 640 672 752 784 512 522 527 538 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "672x480@60" 24.69 672 704 776 808 480 490 495 505 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "704x512@60" 27.64 704 736 824 856 512 522 527 538 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "704x528@60" 28.61 704 736 824 856 528 538 544 555 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "704x576@60" 31.53 704 736 832 864 576 587 593 605 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "736x480@60" 26.83 736 768 848 880 480 490 495 505 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "768x576@60" 34.16 768 800 904 936 576 587 593 605 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "784x480@60" 28.44 784 816 904 936 480 490 495 505 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "768x576@60" 34.16 768 800 904 936 576 587 593 605 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "736x480@60" 26.83 736 768 848 880 480 490 495 505 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "800x512@60" 31.09 800 832 928 960 512 522 527 538 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "800x600@60" 37.20 800 832 944 976 600 612 618 631 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "832x624@60" 40.33 832 864 992 1024 624 637 643 656 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "1024x480@60" 36.49 1024 1056 1168 1200 480 490 495 505 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "1024x576@60" 44.67 1024 1056 1192 1224 576 587 593 605 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "1264x528@60" 49.48 1264 1296 1448 1480 528 538 544 555 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "1280x480@60" 45.08 1280 1312 1448 1480 480 490 495 505 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "1280x576@60" 55.18 1280 1312 1488 1520 576 587 593 605 -hsync -vsync

All of these modes display correctly aside from the curling issue. When I use the modes in your 31kHz set, they display correctly.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 06, 2011, 10:45:53 am
Hm...
The modeline of 640x480 looks rather strange.
Frontporch and Backporch seem to be almost the same.

Try something like a 1/5th, 2/5th, 3/5th ratio.
i.E. 640 672 736 828 instead of 640 672 744 776
         32   64   92                      32   72   32
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: newmanfamilyvlogs on April 06, 2011, 01:52:36 pm
How are you generating those? I was using an online generator, and don't really understand how the formulas work.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrorepair on April 14, 2011, 01:57:49 pm
I can't get my head round the formulas either and don't really know what to put in the online generator.

Is it possible or does someone have a 640x480i modeline for 25khz? Or is there a good reason soft15khz only includes the two modelines for 25k?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: MonMotha on April 17, 2011, 11:04:16 pm
Is there a document that describes the exact timings installed by default by Soft15kHz?  I'm trying to help someone troubleshoot an installation, and I think I may have it pinned down to the number of lines during vsync, so I'd like to know exactly what timings he's actually using.  X modeline format or anything similar is fine.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 18, 2011, 12:43:05 am
This must be like the 10th time in this thread...
Whatever :) Here go the default modelines

Code: [Select]
' -= 15KHz Progressive =-
modeline '240x240' 4,83 240 252 276 310 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x240' 5,30 256 272 296 336 240 244 247 261 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x256' 5,36 256 268 292 330 256 257 260 273 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x264' 5,35 256 268 292 330 264 265 268 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline '288x240' 5,84 288 296 328 368 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240' 5,95 296 304 336 376 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '304x240' 6,20 304 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '320x240' 6,45 320 336 368 414 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '320x256' 6,68 320 340 372 416 256 257 260 268 -hsync -vsync
modeline '336x240' 6,83 336 352 384 433 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x256' 7,28 352 368 400 450 256 257 260 271 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x264' 7,35 352 365 405 452 264 265 268 284 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x288' 7,40 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync
modeline '368x240' 7,47 368 384 424 478 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '384x288' 7,85 384 400 440 496 288 289 292 309 -hsync -vsync
modeline '392x240' 8,00 392 408 448 504 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '400x256' 8,08 400 416 456 519 256 268 271 297 -hsync -vsync
modeline '448x240' 9,16 448 464 512 576 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x240' 10,68 512 544 600 672 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x288' 10,68 512 544 600 672 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync
modeline '632x264' 13,00 632 664 728 824 264 265 268 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x240' 13,22 640 672 736 832 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x288' 13,10 640 672 736 832 288 289 292 309 -hsync -vsync
 
' -= 15KHz Interlace =-
modeline '512x448' 10,60 512 542 598 672 448 469 472 527 interlace -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x512' 10,60 512 538 594 668 512 513 516 545 interlace -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x480' 13,09 640 672 736 836 480 481 483 526 interlace -hsync -vsync
modeline '720x480' 14,60 720 752 824 928 480 486 489 525 interlace -hsync -vsync
modeline '800x600' 16,48 800 840 920 1040 600 602 605 627 interlace -hsync -vsync
modeline '1024x600' 20,90 1024 1072 1176 1328 600 607 610 627 interlace -hsync -vsync
 
' -= 25KHz Progressive =-
modeline '496x384' 15,4752 496 508 570 620 384 386 391 416 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x384' 14,75 512 520 568 600 384 388 391 410 -hsync -vsync

' -= 31KHz Progressive =-
modeline '512x448' 21,21 512 542 598 672 448 469 472 527 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x512' 21,21 512 538 594 668 512 513 516 545 -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x480' 26,18 640 672 736 836 480 486 489 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline '720x480' 29,25 720 752 824 928 480 486 489 526 -hsync -vsync
modeline '800x600' 32,96 800 840 920 1040 600 602 605 627 -hsync -vsync
modeline '1024x600' 41,80 1024 1072 1176 1328 600 607 610 627 -hsync -vsync
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: MonMotha on April 18, 2011, 03:21:56 am
This must be like the 10th time in this thread...
Whatever :) Here go the default modelines
I tried searching the thread, but it's huge, and SMF doesn't have the greatest search function in the world.  Thanks!

FYI, I haven't tested it exactly, but the timings used by your 640x480 15kHz mode are similar to the mode I used but several monitors I tested didn't like.  I don't think there were enough lines during vsync.  The 720x480 mode is much closer to what I found to work in the end.  For reference, here's what I had:

Code: [Select]
Not working:
Modeline "640x480_GTF60i"  11.93  640 656 720 800  480 481 484 497  +HSync +Vsync Interlace

Working:
ModeLine "640x480_ATSC60i" 11.97 640 664 736 760 480 484 492 525 +Hsync +Vsync Interlace

Everything was externally normalized to negative composite sync for my monitors, so I'm pretty sure it was the timings.  Note that some monitors don't have a problem with the first, but everything worked with the latter.

Dunno if you may want to consider updating things.  I guess if most people are having success, then it's probably fine.  Your pixel clock is quite a bit higher (resulting in faster hsync), so that may change things.  Then again, my friend was using Soft15kHz (I was on Linux), and had the same problem as I did.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: kefka13 on April 24, 2011, 07:56:54 am
Hi SailorSat,

Do you make and sell EDID dongle ? I have a card that prevent me to get resolutions under 640x480 and apaprently we must use a dongle to prevent that (I imagine you can't hack this in soft15khz ...)

Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 25, 2011, 07:31:47 am
So... I finally managed to do something again...

First thing was to install the retail Windows7 on my development machine...

Actually everything worked out of the box :o

Win7 Pro, Radeon HD3450, Catalyst 11.3
(http://images.arianchen.de/soft15khz/wip/tn_20110425_seven_cat1103.jpg) (http://images.arianchen.de/soft15khz/wip/20110425_seven_cat1103.jpg)

Then there will be a new version of QuickRes later this day which features a hotkey for 640x480 60Hz.

Any ideas what key combination would be smart? Nope, Ctrl-Alt-Del is not possible :)

My "visual" modeline editor will be updated too.

First - there will be "list" feature to enable/disable/modify the built-in modelines (modifications will be saved to either customXXkhz.txt or usermodes.txt)

Second - there will be a modeline generator.

Third - the editor MAY work on the fly with Radeons.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: The Big Man on May 02, 2011, 09:28:10 pm
Hey Sailorsat, I recently converted my mates Jamma machine to a mame machine and am using your soft15khz software but am having a little problem, What I'm running is windows on the arcade monitor using a J-pac, Ati Radeon 9250, the mamewah front end and your program. The reason I choose the Radeon 9250 was that I was led to believe that it was a good substitute for the Arcadevga but It dosen't seem to be capable of the lower Arcade resolutions, the lowest res it seems to like is 640x480 which is fine but when I run mame(from the mamewah frontend) and it changes the resolution to a lower one for the game upon exiting the game it seems to lose sync and only turning the monitor off and back on seems to fix this. I've also used Refreshforce to tell the graphics card what resolutions to use but for some reason it dosen't like it when it has to change between them in windows, mamewah and mame itself, what am I doing wrong?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 03, 2011, 02:27:52 am
Most likely your catalyst is too new.
Use Catalyst 6.5 or prior releases.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: The Big Man on May 03, 2011, 07:55:00 am
I did forget to mention I am using Catalyst 6.5!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 03, 2011, 08:15:57 am
Phew... Thats strange. Have you tried getting a list of resolutions with QuickRes?
Most likely you have to adjust the monitor by hand then. What kind of monitor is it?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: The Big Man on May 03, 2011, 08:21:50 am
Yeah quickres lists loads of resolutions including all the arcade ones and upto 800x600 but when  I go into the settings for my display adapter and click on list all modes it only comes up with about 4 different ones 640x480 being the lowest, I'm using a Pentranic 26" 15khz arcade monitor, shouldn't windows list all the capable resolutions of the card the same way that quickres does?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: The Big Man on May 03, 2011, 10:12:41 am
Heres what I'm getting, Pic 1 is after I boot into windows, Pic 2 Mamewah running, Pic 3 The game and Pic 4 when I exit the game.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Calamity on May 03, 2011, 11:04:07 am
Heres what I'm getting, Pic 1 is after I boot into windows, Pic 2 Mamewah running, Pic 3 The game and Pic 4 when I exit the game.

When you loose sync (pic 4), try unplugging and plugging your jpac from its usb connection, probably that will bring the sync back. If that's the case then the issue is with your jpac (mine too).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: The Big Man on May 03, 2011, 11:24:07 am
Hey Calamity, when this happens I turn off the arcade machine and back on and this seems to fix it but obviously I don't want to be unplugging the cabinet everytime I want to play a different game, I did suspect that it was a voltage problem caused by the keyboard port as it dosen't seem to be able to power the jpac on its own, I have a ps/2 usb splitter cable plugged into it to give it the extra 5v from the usb port.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Calamity on May 03, 2011, 11:33:18 am
Hey Calamity, when this happens I turn off the arcade machine and back on and this seems to fix it but obviously I don't want to be unplugging the cabinet everytime I want to play a different game, I did suspect that it was a voltage problem caused by the keyboard port as it dosen't seem to be able to power the jpac on its own, I have a ps/2 usb splitter cable plugged into it to give it the extra 5v from the usb port.

So the videocard is working fine it seems, otherwise it wouldn't sync after that. What I do is to reset the jpac itself, and that works fine for me, probably we are having the same issue and has to do with usb/ps-2 power. It's really fuzzy in my case, sometimes it happens all the time as resolution changes, but then it gets cured for a month or so.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: The Big Man on May 03, 2011, 11:42:29 am
Well yes, but mine seems to do it constantly, I did think of connecting a different pc to it to eliminate a motherboard/jpac fault but its going to be a hassle for me, I'm hoping Sailorsat can point me in the right direction.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 03, 2011, 12:47:32 pm
If I remember correctly you can disable the frequency filter on the jpac by removing all jumpers (so neither 15k,24k,31k is closed)
Maybe this helps.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: The Big Man on May 03, 2011, 01:21:41 pm
Will the jpac still filter out the 31khz vga signal until windows loads the soft15khz driver, eg is it safe to turn on the monitor before windows has fully loaded? Also i've just rememberd something else, when booting up I get the double bios screen as I have jumpers on the 15 and 31khz but the picture is not stable and jumps up and down, its only when windows has fully loaded that the picture stabilises, should the bios screen not be readable albiet in split screen?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 03, 2011, 01:55:56 pm
No it won't. But you won't hurt your monitor at all
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: The Big Man on May 03, 2011, 02:08:06 pm
Cheers, I'll try it out and let you know how I get on
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: The Big Man on May 03, 2011, 05:55:19 pm
Hey Sailorsat, Tried what you suggested with the jumpers, with no jumpers I couldn't get the vertical hold to stay put and the picture just kept rolling but I was able to test the mamewah frontend and mame and upon exiting a game I lost sync as usual, I've come to the conclusion that It must be down to one of two things, the J-pac itself is faulty or there is a problem with the keyboard port of the motherboard not suppling the Jpac with a constant current, I'm going to try connecting a different pc to it and see if I can eliminate the the PC itself.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: The Big Man on May 03, 2011, 07:03:04 pm
Hey Sailorsat I've just noticed on the soft15khz page over at arcadeinfo that it says that it only supports Ati Catalyst in windows 98, I'm using windows xp, could that be anything to do with my problem?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 04, 2011, 02:53:48 am
That's a missunderstanding then :)

If you use Windows98 it ONLY works with Catalyst.
If you use NT5 (2000/XP) or NT6(Vista/Seven) everything works (at least it should)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: The Big Man on May 04, 2011, 09:38:49 am
Hey Sailorsat, tried a different pc on my cab, albiet with the same Ati Radeon card from the original pc, I was still getting the same problem, losing sync after exiting mame, I conclude that my J-pac is faulty, do you agree?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Gray_Area on May 06, 2011, 10:20:39 pm
Hey Sailorsat, tried a different pc on my cab, albiet with the same Ati Radeon card from the original pc, I was still getting the same problem, losing sync after exiting mame, I conclude that my J-pac is faulty, do you agree?

I suggest trying a different card.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: The Big Man on May 07, 2011, 08:07:03 pm
I'm so confused, can someone help me please? I've come to the conclusion that theres nothing wrong with any of my hardware, what exactly should I be doing once I've used soft15khz to change the output of my graphics card. Lets start from the begining, I've used the software, my pc is now connected to my cab, windows has booted and all is fine and I'm looking at my windows desktop which is running in 640x480 32bit. I'm using the Mamewah frontend (also set to 640x480), when I run it I can select a game which loads no problem, I can play the game without issue but I don't know what resoulution the game is using, upon exit from the game back to the menu i've lost sync, what am I doing wrong and where does quickres come into it cause when I run it and click on the resolutions it comes up with I lose sync! please help! I'm about to give up!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 08, 2011, 05:55:57 am
The fact that you loose sync is buggin me.

I'd say...
boot up the cab -> start soft15khz -> uninstall and reinstall 15khz -> reboot
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheGunslinger on May 08, 2011, 06:33:01 pm
This is my first build and things are going well except one bug that I can not solve. I am running a GeForce 8800 GT and have installed the most recent drivers. I installed Soft-15KHz and rebooted, all while plugged into my VGA monitor. As soon as windows booted up it went blank and gave an out of range error on the screen. I moved my connection from my computer monitor to my J-Pac and the arcade monitor looked great. Now, if I reboot and leave the arcade monitor connected it comes up with a split screen. If I reboot with the computer monitor connected as soon as windows boots I get the error and switch over my connections and everything is fine. Do I have to boot to the computer monitor each time and manually switch my connection over to the J-Pac each time or is there a way to leave my arcade monitor connected all the time?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Gray_Area on May 09, 2011, 01:16:00 am
I'm so confused, can someone help me please?

I think I remember some kind of thing like this with Mamewah; older versions, perhaps....though, it is a dinosaur. Try a different front end.


This is my first build and things are going well except one bug that I can not solve. I am running a GeForce 8800 GT and have installed the most recent drivers. I installed Soft-15KHz and rebooted, all while plugged into my VGA monitor. As soon as windows booted up it went blank and gave an out of range error on the screen. I moved my connection from my computer monitor to my J-Pac and the arcade monitor looked great. Now, if I reboot and leave the arcade monitor connected it comes up with a split screen. If I reboot with the computer monitor connected as soon as windows boots I get the error and switch over my connections and everything is fine. Do I have to boot to the computer monitor each time and manually switch my connection over to the J-Pac each time or is there a way to leave my arcade monitor connected all the time?

Yes. Leave it connected to your PC. Set your desktop for a 15khz compatible resolution - for example, 640x240.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 09, 2011, 02:06:41 am
Sounds like a classic EDID issue. You'll need an edid dongle. Or you might get another gfx card (Radeon 4350/4550)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: TheGunslinger on May 09, 2011, 07:56:36 am
Thanks SaliorSat, I will look for an ATI card around the house, I think I have one. If not, can you tell me where I can purchase the EDID dongle?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: The Big Man on May 09, 2011, 08:57:50 am
Hey sailorsat, I tried what you suggested, uninstalling soft15khz and reinstalling/rebooting, didn't make any difference but I have noticed something else, when I lost sync I tried unplugging the power to the arcade monitor and when I plugged it back in hey presto sync was restored! Now i'm pretty sure that this means its the arcade monitor thats causing the problem but I really don't know enough about them to determine whats wrong, some kind of ac power fault maybe as killing the power and turning back on seems to fix it?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 09, 2011, 10:37:34 am
Okay that sounds kinda reasonable.

Thats the downside of using old arcade screens. They never were meant to change resolutions every 5 minutes.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: The Big Man on May 09, 2011, 12:41:52 pm
It may be old tech but its a brand new Pentranic monitor i've recently installed, guess its just not meant to be.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Gray_Area on May 13, 2011, 01:15:11 am
It may be old tech but its a brand new Pentranic monitor i've recently installed, guess its just not meant to be.

Did you try a different video card?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lole on May 19, 2011, 05:00:57 pm
Hi
Here I am having trouble with the soft-15kHz

configuration/

- video card: ATI Radeon HD4850 PCI-E http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=7925&page=5 (http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=7925&page=5)

- os: windows xp

- catalyst 9.2

- monitor 25" videocolor 15khz

what is strange is happening:

Catalyst installation, reboot, install the soft 15-kHz resolution 800x600 reboot.

From that time on first boot, but not all the time I get a display and sometimes I have a black screen, when I display if I restart again and I have a black screen this one is final, I can not get a display whatever resolution

I tested with another version of catalyst, and still have the same problem, I tested with another adapter DVI / VGA, always the same, I tested the install of usermodes, same problem, I used another versions of the utility Avres (Avres avres1, avres2) nothing changes.

by cons I did the test with the calamity drivers http://mario.groovy.org/GroovyMame/WindowsATIDrivers/ (http://mario.groovy.org/GroovyMame/WindowsATIDrivers/), then everything works, but unfortunately, it does not allow me to use Hyperspin  :laugh2:

I installed VNC, I get no results, even if I change the resolution on rebooting I still get a black screen  

I went through the forum, and the world, to find a person who is the same problem as me .......................... nothing ....... ..................................... desert

help me please ............. I'm very thirsty  :cry:

Sorry for my very approximate English, I'm french.

lole
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 19, 2011, 05:19:38 pm
Try the OTHER output (if you have 2 dvi outputs)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: krick on May 19, 2011, 06:01:56 pm

by cons I did the test with the calamity drivers http://mario.groovy.org/GroovyMame/WindowsATIDrivers/ (http://mario.groovy.org/GroovyMame/WindowsATIDrivers/), then everything works, but unfortunately, it does not allow me to use Hyperspin  :laugh2:


That Hyperspin bug is a huge pain in the ass.  I really wish someone over there would make it a priority to fix it.  If they can't fix it themselves, they should reach out to the community for help.  I'm sure someone has the skills and the motivation to fix it.

Supposedly, if you use one of the older cards that is compatible with Calamity's patched Catalyst 6.5 drivers, Hyperspin works.  Here's a list of cards that work with the older drivers, though I believe that there are a few more models that aren't listed...

ATI Radeon  7000, 7200, 7500, 8500, 9000, 9100,
                    9200, 9250, 9500, 9550, 9600, 9700,
                    9800, X300, X550, X600, X700, X800,
                    X850, X1300, X1600, X1800, X1900,
                    X1950, ArcadeVGA 9200/9250, etc.

I believe that these two cards would also work based on the GPU:  X1550, X1650

You can find used X1300 cards on Ebay starting at 99 cents with free shipping, so it might be worth checking out.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lole on May 20, 2011, 07:19:13 am
Try the OTHER output (if you have 2 dvi outputs)

On the first one I never obtain anything, I have an input signal 31khz, thus I always used the second.

I will test other DVI adapter, but I doubt the problem is there, but you never know .....

are there any specific brands of adapters??

Krick thank you for your valuable advice, if I do not work with the soft 15kHz I would consider this possibility, although I find the drivers calamity are less convenient to use the soft-15kHz

thank you again
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lole on May 20, 2011, 03:07:43 pm
I forgot to specify, that I use a j-pac
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: franklin_jackson on May 22, 2011, 01:50:35 am
Hi SailorSat.

First off thank you so much for soft 15kHz. Outstanding work.

My question, what process in widows is running soft 15kHz? I know soft 15kHz begins when windows starts (XP in my case), but what is the actual process that windows initializes to begin running soft 15kHz.

I am looking to shell into the soft 15kHz process and then on to my front end.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 22, 2011, 02:22:51 am
Err... Actually none.

Soft-15kHz is only active after you doubleclick the exe, until you close it.
It modifies the display driver itself.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: franklin_jackson on May 23, 2011, 11:48:37 am
Hi SailorSat,

Thanks so much for the reply. I am kinda new at the whole 15khz / arcade monitor thing and I greatly appreciate the help. Here is where I am at. I am pretty much done with my build (an old Die Hard Arcade cab with working original monitor).

Soft 15khz combined with the jpac have worked awesome. I want to finish by hiding windows xp as I have done in my other builds using instantsheller (other builds did not use an original arcade monitor).

In short I, want to instantshell into a ahk .exe that runs soft 15khz then hyperspin (or another frontend in case someone else wants to do the same thing).

Your thoughts?

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 23, 2011, 11:58:35 am
You don't need to run Soft-15kHz once it is installed. It works as soon as windows loads the display driver (long before any shell kicks in)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: franklin_jackson on May 23, 2011, 04:00:12 pm
Outstanding!!! Made my day :)

I will give it a go tonight and let you know how things go.

Thank you so much and have a wonderful day.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: apocalypto on May 24, 2011, 09:52:43 am
Hi Sailorsat, I hope you can help me with a problem I am having using Soft15khz.

I have a Radeon 9550XL card which is connected to a 'VGA-to-CGA Converter Card' and then to my Sanyo 20ez Monitor.

I installed Soft15khz, the desktop resolution was set to 640x480. I rebooted, and after the windows boot screen, the screen went crazy with lines, colors and looked scrambled. I also had a vga computer monitor plugged in which then said out of sync range and had a black screen.

here is a picture of the Sanyo:  (http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/1403/sanyosoft15khz.jpg)

What I am wondering is if the converter card is splitting the 15khz signal in half, like it does with the 31khz signal. This is just speculation. Do you have any experience using these cards alongside soft15khz?

The only reason I am using soft15khz as well is so that I can run older games in low resolutions such as '224x256'.

Any ideas??  Thanks!  :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: newmanfamilyvlogs on May 24, 2011, 11:01:23 am
Soft15kHz is allowing the video card to generate the signal the monitor is expecting.. I don't think you should need the extra convertor in there.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Gray_Area on May 24, 2011, 07:39:53 pm
Soft15kHz is allowing the video card to generate the signal the monitor is expecting.. I don't think you should need the extra convertor in there.

Definitely yes and no, respectively.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tcancian on May 26, 2011, 09:12:33 am
SailorSat, congratulations on your work.  :applaud:

I would like to ask about the syncs at soft15khz. I need to connect my Radeon 9550 to a SCART RGB to YPrPb converter box. I found a VGA breakout cable that split VGA in RGBHV, but I need RGBs to connect it to the RGBs to SCART adapter. If I combine the HV would I obtain s or do I need some sort of extra circuitry? Does soft15khz or ATi drivers support composite sync through VGA?  :cheers:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 26, 2011, 10:23:14 am
Both ATI driver and Soft-15kHz support C-Sync, but you'll have to edit ALL modelines.

Easy way would be the H+V Twist :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tcancian on May 26, 2011, 10:45:38 am
The breakout cable has BNC outputs, if I pick a dongle and merge HV and would it work then? I read at winmodelines

"Specifications of synchronization signals for Scart and VGA differ significantly, so they are incompatible and cannot be connected. There are important differences: scart composite sync expects a 0,3 V sync signal and has a low input impedance of 75 ohm while VGA outputs 5V TTL separate sync signals and expects high impedance loading. "

I'm scared that it will explode my  :notworthy: 38 inch baby into pieces.  :dizzy:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: kefka13 on May 26, 2011, 04:07:47 pm
Hi, No anwser to my previous question :(

About my card that doesn't display anything below 640x480 that seems to need EDID dongle (where can I buy one ???)

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on May 26, 2011, 05:07:29 pm
Hi SailorSat,

Do you make and sell EDID dongle ? I have a card that prevent me to get resolutions under 640x480 and apaprently we must use a dongle to prevent that (I imagine you can't hack this in soft15khz ...)

Thanks.

Actually yes, but haven't build any for about a year.

What card is it?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: kefka13 on May 26, 2011, 05:56:42 pm
Don't remember it, but I will look after that as soon as possible I'm near this PC again ^^

Thanks

I also have a problem with another PC/card (I'd rather use the other PC that is 3 times much powerfull, but the card don't go under 640x480 with soft15k as said -> EDID dongle ?) with JAMMASd and soft 15k : I have made a video, but it is not so much visible on it ... it's like the picutre is lightly vibrant ... some video interference (PC power supply with arcade cab power supply ? Video mass issue ? soft15k issue ??)

Will investigate this to be more specific ^^
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: vib_ribbon on May 30, 2011, 05:15:57 pm
hi sailorsat,

i've found my way to this thread because i have been trying to get my laptop which has a geforce 8200 card to work with a jpac.
is it correct that what i need is a dongle to get my arcade monitor to accept a 640x480 signal?
at the moment it looks like this with quickres and soft15khz (on the jpac, 15 & 31 are jumpered)
640x480 flicker (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxkozGQtSOA#)

if i go down to 320x240, it is okay, but then lots of games i can't play at such low resolution
can you offer any advice? many thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: DirkDiggler_ESQ on June 01, 2011, 10:26:09 pm
I am seeing a lot of posts that have some things in common with my issue, but not enough for me to get it fixed.

I have:

Wells Gardner K7400 (15 kHz)
Radeon HD3450 (Catalyst 11.5)
Windows Vista x64
J-Pac (jumpers on 15 kHz and 31 kHz)


DVI to VGA adapter is plugged into the DVI port.  PC boots and I see the BIOS screen split.  Windows loads and the screen is blank.  Connect a regular monitor, run soft-15khz, install the 15 kHz mode, re-connect arcade monitor, and I now see the desktop, but it is split and the top section is slightly skewed.  No changes of the horizontal position controls will get the two images to become one.

In Windows, the lowest resolution that is shown (in either that Catalyst Control Center or the built in "Change Display Settings" in Windows) is 640 x 480 and nothing lower.  What am I doing wrong?  I thought that once I installed the 15 kHz modes via soft-15khz, that I should then see resolutions lower than 640 x 480 in the display settings?

Would installing Windows XP make any difference?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 02, 2011, 04:38:48 am
First, use QuickRes to select lower resolutions.
Second. On the blank screen issue. Try the OTHER Port :)

Split Screen = 31kHz active.
You don't have to install it every time.

If it doesn't stick -- it should read "installed 15kHz" in the status -- try running s15khz as administrator.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 02, 2011, 04:43:05 am
hi sailorsat,

i've found my way to this thread because i have been trying to get my laptop which has a geforce 8200 card to work with a jpac.
is it correct that what i need is a dongle to get my arcade monitor to accept a 640x480 signal?
at the moment it looks like this with quickres and soft15khz (on the jpac, 15 & 31 are jumpered)

if i go down to 320x240, it is okay, but then lots of games i can't play at such low resolution
can you offer any advice? many thanks.

Well, you should have other resolutions available (check with quickres!).
you may have to to set the ports in nvidia control panel. vga out should be port #1.
As you can acutally see ONE screen currently, I don't think you need a dongle.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: vib_ribbon on June 02, 2011, 11:18:07 am
Well, you should have other resolutions available (check with quickres!).
you may have to to set the ports in nvidia control panel. vga out should be port #1.
As you can acutally see ONE screen currently, I don't think you need a dongle.

many thanks for your advice, i will check when i get home.

yes, there are many, many resolutions available on quickres, higher than 640x480 and lower than 640x480, but i have only found 320x240 to offer a stable and clear image on my arcade monitor, most of the other ones are just totally out of sync. - what i am doing is that i am cloning my laptop screen to the arcade monitor, not sure if there are any issues with that.

anyway, i will check the nvidia control panel and look for vga out and port 1 and report back.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: vib_ribbon on June 02, 2011, 01:33:01 pm
as this stands to be the best possible opportunity for me to get to the bottom of this problem, lemme give you, sailorsat, as much information as i can.

so i am on a laptop, with a nvidia geforce 8200 card built in with soft15khz is installed.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3210/5772966598_d555283442.jpg)

quickres offers a long list of possible resolutions, i pick 640x480
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3158/5772963550_acbe4133d6.jpg)

it is possible to select 240x240 and the laptop screen won't have any problems with it.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3636/5790926264_dc1e2d4109.jpg)

so with the jpac connected (jumpers on 15 & 31), i select clone (laptop screen as primary, arcade analogue screen as secondary)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2266/5790370257_c011c7d47d.jpg)

as i have showed in the previous post, this is what i'll get:
640x480 flicker (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxkozGQtSOA#)

if i make the arcade analogue screen as primary and laptop screen secondary, it is worse:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2502/5790921530_24a1611778.jpg)

why it makes a difference, i dunno, but this is what it looks like:
640x480 analogue primary (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HBKws7ABAQ#)

the only success i've had, is select 320x240 res and then clone to the analogue screen (as secondary):
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3189/5776438950_38311b4ee8.jpg)

but that is no good to me, because i need 640x480 to play certain games.

can you see anything within nvidia control panel which i could try?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2266/5790370257_c011c7d47d_b.jpg (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2266/5790370257_c011c7d47d_b.jpg)

not sure what is meant by "vga out should be port #1." does it simply mean make sure the arcade monitor is set as primary display?

i have also tried only having 15khz jumpered on the jpac and not 31khz, but that is also worse.

many thanks for being so patient, and your input is much appreciated.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 02, 2011, 01:43:01 pm
Hm... Laptop as primary won't work for sure.

But I don't have a clue atm.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: vib_ribbon on June 02, 2011, 04:58:51 pm
what is strange is that i tried making the arcade monitor the primary screen at 320x240, but it wouldn't accept it. seems like it doesn't like being the primary screen at all at any resolution. i also tried pulling out the 31khz jumper on the jpac, no luck at various resolutions.  :'(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: vib_ribbon on June 06, 2011, 01:02:18 pm

As you can acutally see ONE screen currently, I don't think you need a dongle.

i found the latest driver and installed that, didn't help, in fact it has removed all the lower res options. looks like i might have to revert back to the previous.

i noticed you mentioned ONE screen. when i click on the identify button, it actually shows that there the image on the arcade monitor is split into 2. is that what you were referring to?

many thanks for your assistance.

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2006/5804591649_0aa190f530.jpg)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Gray_Area on June 08, 2011, 09:08:06 pm

i noticed you mentioned ONE screen. when i click on the identify button, it actually shows that there the image on the arcade monitor is split into 2. is that what you were referring to?

No. That means display number two is being displayed. The split screen is the JPAC allowing a non-15khz mode on your monitor.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SuprSprint on June 17, 2011, 11:35:50 am
Anyone had any success with the ATI All-in-wonder board PN 109-52900-03?  It's labeled as a Rage 128, has one chip marked with AIW128, and has VGA, composite+L&R in/out, and cable TV interfaces.   Soft15Khz sees it but won't install.  I have what I believe are the latest drivers released for this card (2002).

It works fine at 15khz under Dos/TSR and AdvMame.  But I'd like to upgrade from AdvMenu to GameEx front end, and that means Windows.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 19, 2011, 04:41:39 am
If i remember correctly, Rage128 support display timings, but no custom resolutions. They won't work.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: greenoneten on June 23, 2011, 04:08:00 pm
Hi,
Just to let everyone know that ati 4870 works fine with soft 15.
finally managed to trade 5570 which doesn't work for 4870 and all is now well.
Cheers for the great software. ;D
Ian
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 26, 2011, 02:20:27 am
Based on feedback (thanks MonMotha), build 51 is up, which features a new modeline for 640x490 that should be way more compatible.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sosetsuken on July 29, 2011, 05:25:44 am
So... I finally managed to do something again...

First thing was to install the retail Windows7 on my development machine...

Actually everything worked out of the box :o

Win7 Pro, Radeon HD3450, Catalyst 11.3

Hey SailorSat, so does Win7 x64 w/ ATi Radeon's work now (Out of the box)?  or do we need the EDID Dongle? :X
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: rdowdy95 on July 29, 2011, 11:36:41 am
I have a question about this software.  I have a radeon card connected to a TV via S-Video...Love my light gun games...

All my stuff is set to 640x480...

Nestopia however has screen tearing and none of the options work on it.  Meaning V-SYNC, Triple Bufferine, none of that stuff solves the problem. 

Would this software work on an S-Video TV? I have heard no matter what kind of software you use S-Video would only carry that 640 x 480 signal?

Anyone use Nestopia on an S-Video TV and not get the stupid screen tearing?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 29, 2011, 12:42:12 pm
Won't work with SVideo.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Markade on August 08, 2011, 01:54:04 pm
Hi SailorSat!

First of all, thanks for all you've done to our hobby! Your soft15 really  make happy a lot of people (me included) and I really want to thank you for that :D

I've watching this thread for a while, and I'm one of these with a nVidia card that can't take out the 15hz very well. So, I want to ask you about the Dongle:

- Does it works alone, or it works in conjunction with soft15? I mean... the only thing does the dongle is to "free" the "safe-mode" resolutions, or it gets 15hz by himself alone?

- I have found one post of you in a spanish forum from about 2 or 3 years ago (i'm spanish, by the way :)) explaining how to do this Dongle. Since you say there's more than a year you don't do any dongle... Can you please share the way to program the eeprom? So, I will try to make one (only for me, i don't plan to distribute anything). I think this question should be done by MP, but maybe you are really willing to share that...

- Besides all of that, have you tried the software winmodelines with the nVidia cards? I know you were in touch with the creator of the software, so I bealive yes. I have a very "funny" problem with winmodelines. I can get the 15hz with it, but when a resolution changes when i'm in this mode (for example, if i'm in 640*540 and I run a PC-Game that works at 800*600 or at 640*480) the mode changes again to 31hz, and I have to reboot and start again. Do you know if your dongle also can solve this?

I really hope you answer me, 'cause I will be very happy to use my actual graphic card, and 'cause I will like to try if I'm capable to do the dongle.

Thank you very much!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 08, 2011, 03:56:23 pm
Well the firmware is freeware =)
http://files.arianchen.de/soft15khz/s15kedid.bin (http://files.arianchen.de/soft15khz/s15kedid.bin)

I've used PowerStrip to upload it to the dongle.

As for your WinModelines problem. I guess that interlaced resolutions get added as 30Hz/25Hz to windows and most games will select 60Hz (which usually is progressive).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Markade on August 10, 2011, 03:07:55 am
Thanks for the answer!

Anyway... you didn't answer what I most need :). Maybe it's obvious... but... so, the dongle is the answer to my problems, right?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wilch on August 10, 2011, 09:31:10 am
Markade, do you have a link to the old spanish thread you mentioned? thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Markade on August 10, 2011, 12:53:19 pm
Markade, do you have a link to the old spanish thread you mentioned? thanks

I do :)

http://www.foromarciano.org/foro/thread/23/50/12350_1.html (http://www.foromarciano.org/foro/thread/23/50/12350_1.html)

But I don't know if you will find here what you need... :dunno
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: iori01 on August 11, 2011, 11:15:36 am
Hello SailorSat,

First, let me say to you a relly big thanks for your wonderful soft, that make lot of things possible with retrogaming.

I'm using ATI4350 by now on my New Astro City, soft15Khz works like a charm, but I plan to change the 15/24 chassis of my cabinet by a new one 15/24/31 auto switch to enjoy type x emulation in 480p

The problem is that some game I run in 480i by now , will be obliged to be in 480p after, and I think the result will not be the same.
For example I play Rival schools in 480i, If I put it in my normal PC with 480p, it's bad.

Do you know if it's possible to have 480i and 480p resolution at the same time on my computer ? maybe tweaking a bit with 640x480 for 31Khz and 641x480 for 15Khz ?

do you think it's possible ? Or am I completely crazy  :dizzy:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tellaedhel on August 11, 2011, 11:53:47 am
Alright,
I have a problem with my arcade monitor... well, I hope its solvable since I am so close to getting my ultimate arcade macheen up and running.
I got my P4 with 1GB of RAM and an ATI Radeon 7000 with a 6.11 Catalyst ready to go... using hyperspin and mame along with few other software additions... Instead of spending me money on ArcadeVGA I went other way and spent $20 for regular VGA card... I am planning to use Sailor's great little tool, soft 15khz and J-PAC with my JAMMA. So, my problem occures once I conect my PC to a J-PAC via VGA cable... I get a double picture... The colours look great the sharpness is on top, however it is two screens split vertically. I tried installing all the frequencies for both card options in soft-15Khz, I tried only installing one, I tried using a DVI port on my video card and a VGAtoDVI convertor, nothing did the trick. Am I missing something? I change soft 15Khz settings in windows and try loading hyperspin with Win XP hidden. I used quickres first time to set my resolution to the lowest available - I believe it was 640-480 or something... any suggestions?

By the way, I am also writing a tutorial/personal experience with PC / arcade system from the scratch www.tellaedhel.com (http://www.tellaedhel.com) any suggestions and comments are more then welcome.

What other options do I have in order to resolve a double screen issue? I downloaded 6.5 Catalyst as I read that should be a version used, and I was going to play with resolutions a bit more... I am not sure if that could have caused this to occur.

Thank you in advance and SailorSat thanks for the software, very neat gadget.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 11, 2011, 12:24:08 pm
Is it a 15kHz arcade screen? If so, don't install all three options! Just 15kHz and reboot.
(also make sure you have selected a 60Hz mode)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tellaedhel on August 11, 2011, 12:41:30 pm
Thanks so much for such a quick response. Ok, it is Wells-Gardner 19K4901 and I believe it is 15Khz... I will try one of the two card with only 15Khz (which I did, but I will be trying the other one later today) also, are we talking about 60hz refresh rate within the windows display settings/monitors?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tellaedhel on August 11, 2011, 08:34:00 pm
... next
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tellaedhel on August 11, 2011, 09:42:14 pm
me again... I got it to work, it looks great, however, new questions occured. I managed to get some of the games work at the regular settings, the others will get a picture that is unstable, bunch of lines that is. I assume it has to do everything with the right resolution. I am not sure where exactly I enter those custom resolutions, is it into the mame software, or??? anyways, thanks for the help Sailor, 15khz worked after 4-5 hours of headache... I had to tweak thsoe little knowbs in the back of my monitor, but as I said, if I want to play those games with shakey picture I will have to re-tweak... so, eh long night
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: larsoncc on August 15, 2011, 12:40:32 pm
I have some questions, to see what I should be attempting next...  I have Soft-15khz running, but:

1.  If higher resolutions don't work (640x480 and up), is that an issue with my monitor (WG 25K7193) or Video Card (tried GeForce 3 and GeForce 6200)? Or is this perhaps an issue with QuickRes (not displaying interlaced resolutions)?

2. Is this project open source?  I'd like to modify the form to fit into a 640x240 screen, and position the buttons to the top of the form.

3.  NOOB MAME/MAME32 questions:  How do I force games into SMALLER resolutions (example, I'm running 640x240, want to run Ms. Pac Man [288], best I've done so far is cut off the bottom 48 px).  Is there a way to change the button for ESC (exit game) and in MAME 32, a way to change the "launch game" button from Enter to something else?

PS - one thing that I've found very useful in this experience is Remote Desktop in /admin (console) mode, and pinning the start bar to the top of the screen.  :)

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tellaedhel on August 16, 2011, 01:49:51 pm
3.  NOOB MAME/MAME32 questions:  How do I force games into SMALLER resolutions (example, I'm running 640x240, want to run Ms. Pac Man [288], best I've done so far is cut off the bottom 48 px).  Is there a way to change the button for ESC (exit game) and in MAME 32, a way to change the "launch game" button from Enter to something else?

Cannot help you with first two questions but might be able to help you with this one. If I remember well (and I am not next to my computer to be able to check that out), in mame32, once you start a ROM you may press TAB on your keyboard and it will give you a few pretty good options... change your general controls / change your in-game controls (for that particular ROM you have just started), a very good option is game information (if your ROM does not work on your arcade system and it works on your LCD, and you are wondering what resolution you might need for certain non-working roms... you can find it here - correct me if I am wrnong) and finally, there is a user interface controls (or something similiar at the bottom), here you can change ESC function and ENTER function and so on...

Now my question is:
I have managed to get most of my Mame32 ROMs work perfectlly fine, however, there are few that I cannot play due to a, what I believe to be, sync/resolution issue (funny lines and z picture or somthing like that) wel, I am in a need of the resolutions for those games... pac-man, mr. pac-man, vs super mario bros, vs dr mario, lode runne (1,2,3,4) galaga88... any help out there?!

Thanks



tellaedhel.com (http://tellaedhel.com)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wilch on August 16, 2011, 04:22:45 pm
can anyone explain how to modify soft-15khz modelines so they have 50hz refresh rates?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on August 17, 2011, 06:32:59 pm
1.  If higher resolutions don't work (640x480 and up), is that an issue with my monitor (WG 25K7193) or Video Card (tried GeForce 3 and GeForce 6200)? Or is this perhaps an issue with QuickRes (not displaying interlaced resolutions)?
ForceWare too new? :) Which one did you try?

2. Is this project open source?  I'd like to modify the form to fit into a 640x240 screen, and position the buttons to the top of the form.
Hm... Actually no one ever asked :)
I'll see what I can do.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: MonMotha on August 20, 2011, 07:25:32 pm
can anyone explain how to modify soft-15khz modelines so they have 50hz refresh rates?

The easiest way would just be to recalculate them using standard mode formulas like the GTF, CVT, etc.  You may also find an interactive modeline calculator handy, though most are geared toward creating modelines that are "optimal" for PC monitors and will give poor or useless results in this situation.  Either of these methods will generally result in a mode that has a higher visible line count since there's a relationship between number of lines and horizontal scanrate at a given vertical refresh rate.  For example, you'll probably end up with something like 640x525@50Hz rather than 640x480.

If you want to keep all the sizes the same but reduce the refresh to 50Hz, what you'll do is lower the dot clock (first number) then increase the number of blank lines (easiest way to do that is probably to increase the last three numbers equally).  Basically, what you're doing is telling the computer that, while the extra lines exist, you don't want to use them and they should be blank.  You'll probably have to do this by hand, though a modeline calculator application may help you verify your results.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: larsoncc on August 21, 2011, 09:05:54 am
1.  If higher resolutions don't work (640x480 and up), is that an issue with my monitor (WG 25K7193) or Video Card (tried GeForce 3 and GeForce 6200)? Or is this perhaps an issue with QuickRes (not displaying interlaced resolutions)?
ForceWare too new? :) Which one did you try?

2. Is this project open source?  I'd like to modify the form to fit into a 640x240 screen, and position the buttons to the top of the form.
Hm... Actually no one ever asked :)
I'll see what I can do.

Oh, ForceWare can be too new?  I have latest installed.  Which is a good / ideal version?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: rexel on August 31, 2011, 11:10:48 pm
hi
Ive done a bit of reading and couldnt find the answer.. but would a geforce 6220 (nvidia) pcie be compatible with soft 15khz?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Gray_Area on September 01, 2011, 02:44:13 am
hi
Ive done a bit of reading and couldnt find the answer.. but would a geforce 6220 (nvidia) pcie be compatible with soft 15khz?

Yes. Mind the Nvidia 32-resolution limit.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wilch on September 07, 2011, 05:36:41 pm
@MonMotha; Thanks for the in-depth explanation, but I can't quite figure it out.
What I could really do with is a real-time modeline generator that lets you test resolutions on the fly. That way trial and error isn't reduced to restarting the computer every time I alter a modeline slightly. I'll give powerstrip a go, but I've heard it's quite advanced.

Or even better, does anybody have 50hz modelines for any or all of these resolutions:
321x240
321x256
640x240
640x256

Thanks for reading

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: MonMotha on September 07, 2011, 06:34:37 pm
@MonMotha; Thanks for the in-depth explanation, but I can't quite figure it out.
What I could really do with is a real-time modeline generator that lets you test resolutions on the fly. That way trial and error isn't reduced to restarting the computer every time I alter a modeline slightly. I'll give powerstrip a go, but I've heard it's quite advanced.

xvidtune will do just that on Linux.  No idea if there's something similar for Windows.  Windows has historically been pretty limited in terms of the ability to use exact video timings, hence why Soft15k is fairly driver dependent.

Or even better, does anybody have 50hz modelines for any or all of these resolutions:
321x240
321x256
640x240
640x256

Any reason you need these at 50Hz?  They'll be a fair bit lower than 15kHz (in the neighborhood of 12.5-13.5kHz), and some monitors may not like them.  They'll also not be what the game needs to run in, so it will run slow or you'll have to use e.g. triple buffering to convert the framerate down.  Are you trying to use them with a European TV via SCART or something?  I'm told most European TVs will happily accept 60Hz timings.

Anyway, here's some GTF-derived calculated modelines for the resolutions you provided at 50Hz:

# 321x240 @ 50.00 Hz (GTF) hsync: 12.40 kHz; pclk: 4.17 MHz
Modeline "321x240_50.00"  4.17  321 305 328 336  240 241 244 248  -HSync -Vsync

# 321x256 @ 50.00 Hz (GTF) hsync: 13.20 kHz; pclk: 4.65 MHz
Modeline "321x256_50.00"  4.65  321 305 336 352  256 257 260 264  -HSync -Vsync

# 640x240 @ 50.00 Hz (GTF) hsync: 12.40 kHz; pclk: 8.33 MHz
Modeline "640x240_50.00"  8.33  640 600 656 672  240 241 244 248  -HSync -Vsync

# 640x256 @ 50.00 Hz (GTF) hsync: 13.20 kHz; pclk: 9.08 MHz
Modeline "640x256_50.00"  9.08  640 608 664 688  256 257 260 264  -HSync -Vsync


The 321xNNN modes are altered slightly because the VESA specs disallow odd horizontal active pixel counts.  You may experience compatibility issues.
Note that the horizontal scanrates are quite low.  I suspect most monitors won't work with these.  There's somewhat of a way around this, but you'll probably end up with black bars at the top and bottom of the picture, and most TVs don't have an easy way to adjust it back out.
The dot clock is also quite low, and some video cards may not be able to do it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 10, 2011, 06:40:34 pm
Oh Boy, the EDID Dongle finaly goes pro!

The old ones are sold out for some time now, the new ones will be available at www.arcadeforge.de (http://www.arcadeforge.de) soon.

Before:
(http://images.arianchen.de/soft15khz/tn_dongle-parts.jpg) (http://images.arianchen.de/soft15khz/dongle-parts.jpg) (http://images.arianchen.de/soft15khz/tn_edid-dongle.jpg) (http://images.arianchen.de/soft15khz/edid-dongle.jpg)

After:
(http://images.arianchen.de/soft15khz/tn_dongle_v2.jpg) (http://images.arianchen.de/soft15khz/dongle_v2.jpg)

P.S. Yes Yes.. one side will have screws :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: lodoss118 on September 11, 2011, 02:21:50 pm
what will the new versions bring?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 11, 2011, 02:47:29 pm
Nothing new actually. But no more soldering wire by wire :)

Enables 15khz with NVidia cards (GeForce 8 and newer)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: eerie on September 12, 2011, 01:49:51 am
hello all,

I just got a pc for my arcade. it has the intel integrated chipset 4500. Does any of you know if this chipset works fine with soft15? my os is win7 32bit but my plan is to ugrade it to win7 64. will it work with the 64bit os? any compatibility issues? maybe better with xp 64...?

many thanks  :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: rexel on September 19, 2011, 11:12:52 pm
hi
Ive done a bit of reading and couldnt find the answer.. but would a geforce 6220 (nvidia) pcie be compatible with soft 15khz?

Yes. Mind the Nvidia 32-resolution limit.

can someone explain what this means.. i take it that with this card it can only support upto XXXX resolution... so am i right to assume that as long as i am not playing the most recent games (which inturn demand high reso's) i should be fine?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: newmanfamilyvlogs on September 20, 2011, 06:07:16 am
hi
Ive done a bit of reading and couldnt find the answer.. but would a geforce 6220 (nvidia) pcie be compatible with soft 15khz?

Yes. Mind the Nvidia 32-resolution limit.

can someone explain what this means.. i take it that with this card it can only support upto XXXX resolution... so am i right to assume that as long as i am not playing the most recent games (which inturn demand high reso's) i should be fine?

nvidia drivers do now allow you to have more than 32 different resolutions available on the system. Since among all the games in MAME there are probably closer to around 110 unique resolutions, you have to choose a set of resolutions that will allow you to fit the games you want to play without having to loose pixels, or stretch or squash the image, or have too much of a boarder around the edge.

For example if Random Game 2: Nerf Herder runs at 320x240 and you didn't choose to add that resolution, but you did add 320x256, then you're going to have an 8 pixel blank space on the top and bottom of the image. Or if it was the other way around, the game runs at 320x256 and you only added 320x240, then you'll loose 8 pixels from the top and the bottom.

It has nothing to do with WHAT the resolution is, but with how many unique resolutions you've added.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: eerie on September 21, 2011, 02:19:25 pm
hello all,

I just got a pc for my arcade. it has the intel integrated chipset 4500. Does any of you know if this chipset works fine with soft15? my os is win7 32bit but my plan is to ugrade it to win7 64. will it work with the 64bit os? any compatibility issues? maybe better with xp 64...?

many thanks  :)

no replies? any help sailorsat?

thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 21, 2011, 02:26:57 pm
Phew... Well I guess you'll end up using the IEGD drivers. There require you to set your mode by hand.
Last time I checked those had a limit of 5 resolutions.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: rexel on September 21, 2011, 11:27:37 pm
hi
Ive done a bit of reading and couldnt find the answer.. but would a geforce 6220 (nvidia) pcie be compatible with soft 15khz?

Yes. Mind the Nvidia 32-resolution limit.

can someone explain what this means.. i take it that with this card it can only support upto XXXX resolution... so am i right to assume that as long as i am not playing the most recent games (which inturn demand high reso's) i should be fine?

nvidia drivers do now allow you to have more than 32 different resolutions available on the system. Since among all the games in MAME there are probably closer to around 110 unique resolutions, you have to choose a set of resolutions that will allow you to fit the games you want to play without having to loose pixels, or stretch or squash the image, or have too much of a boarder around the edge.

For example if Random Game 2: Nerf Herder runs at 320x240 and you didn't choose to add that resolution, but you did add 320x256, then you're going to have an 8 pixel blank space on the top and bottom of the image. Or if it was the other way around, the game runs at 320x256 and you only added 320x240, then you'll loose 8 pixels from the top and the bottom.

It has nothing to do with WHAT the resolution is, but with how many unique resolutions you've added.

thats abit of a limitation ! only 32 when theres 110 possible...

whats a way around this? go a cheap ati card instead?

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 22, 2011, 02:19:09 am
Not a problem as Soft-15kHz per default only uses 32 modes (as does the ArcadeVGA).

However, there are people who insist that a 320x224 neogeo within a "real" 320x224 mode looks different than in a 320x240 mode with borders. Even if there is no technical difference :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wilch on September 23, 2011, 09:51:22 pm
@MonMotha
Thanks again for the help, I'll try those modelines this weekend. I want 50hz for Amiga emulation without having to use triple buffering so I can experience Amiga-like responses and smooth scrolling, but I guess Amiga emulation is far from perfect. I have tried the 50hz modelines included with soft15-khz but didn't like the results. I really regret selling my Amiga now, suppose I could emulate an NTSC machine instead and run at 60hz but may be too fast...

@Sailorsat
Is your new dongle + soft-15khz compatible with a Geforce GTX 260?
Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: rexel on September 24, 2011, 12:26:22 am
hi just wonderig if a ati x300 would also work ?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 24, 2011, 02:14:19 am
Well x300 should work too.

GTX260? don't know, but worked with a GTX460.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Eversynth on September 28, 2011, 07:50:47 am
Hi everyone!
Premise: A couple of years ago I did set up an arcade PC. The first time I used an ATI X1950Pro, but it turned out sub-optimal as it didn't work well with low resolutions. I also had to drive 2 TVs, so I ended up purchasing 2 ATI 9250 PCI.
BUT the 9250 PCI only supports up to Directx 8.1, and they are really inadequate for anything besides DOS and Emulation. I don't want to run advanced games, but even simple games require at least Directx 9.

NOW: I would like to purchase a recent card(s), one that supports REAL 320x240 resolutions, like the hd4350 and hd4550 can.
THE PROBLEM: Where I live the hd4550 is not readily available. (Too old?)

The question: Are there any other cards that fully support low resolutions out of the box, like the hd4350 and hd4550? In the official thread about supported cards on arcadeinfo.de only the hd4350 is mentioned...
If anyone can help me it will be appreciated.  :notworthy:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: apfelanni on October 01, 2011, 04:16:33 am
a world without ebay or amazon ??
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sk8ersublime on October 04, 2011, 09:06:19 pm
I need some help with this thing...

I have a Geforce 7600GT running in Windows XP SP2 and I am trying to get this thing to work with my Wells Gardner 19K4901.

So I was using the standard Geforce drivers when i first attempted. and I could not get anything to work. So I installed forceware 169 and then reinstalled the soft15khz.

I rebooted the machine and I had all of the resolutions available from 200 something to 1024x768 all at 32bit. but if I select the resolution of 640x480 i get no picture, but if I select the native res of my LCD i get a non-synced desktop on the Arcade monitor.

Now here is another strange thing. If I turn the machine on with the LCD and the Monitor plugged in, I see the POST and BIOS, at 31khz of course so its just scrolling around, but its there...

If I unplug the LCD from the DVI port, I will not get any video at all on the arcade monitor, not even POST or BIOS.

Any ideas??? I have been reading as much as I can find on this thing, but I have no ideas and im about to throw this thing off my balcony...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 05, 2011, 07:15:38 pm
Use the DVI port for 15khz once you disconnect your lcd
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sk8ersublime on October 05, 2011, 08:42:18 pm
Use the DVI port for 15khz once you disconnect your lcd

I tried that, using a DVI to VGA adaptor with the CGA to VGA adapter I created. Pins 1-3 are RGB pins 5,6,7,8,10 are ground pins 13-14 are H and V sync. I followed the VGA pinout from ultrimarc.

So should I install the forceware drivers, reboot, install sync15khz, change resolution to 640x480, shutdown, unhook LCD from DVI and plugin CGA to DVI with the adapter?

Would there be any reason why I wont even get the POST or BIOS with just the CGA connected to either VGA or DVI?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: sk8ersublime on October 05, 2011, 09:15:44 pm
when i plug just the CGA to either the VGA or DVI without the LCD connected I get nothing on the screen. The monitor sounds like it is trying to sync, but all i get is raster.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Gage on October 11, 2011, 04:24:11 pm
I'm running soft-15khz and cabMAME and am currently having an issue with a few of my roms, notably The Simpsons and G.I. Joe.  When I run them, they appear to run at a faster speed than normal and are split into four different windows (the "full screen" version of the game, identically displayed in four areas of the screen).

The games were running perfectly on this setup until I added an I-Pac to my existing J-Pac setup (I built a custom 4-player control panel to use with my existing arcade cab).  I'm not sure if something I did during the I-Pac programming caused a MAME shortcut key to be activated or something.

I'm wondering if it has to do with my PC resolution as opposed to the game resolution.  When I run it in my arcade cab, I have the Windows resolution set to 640 x 480.  If I uninstall soft-15khz and run it on a standard LCD monitor at 1280 x 600, Simpsons and GI Joe run in one screen, although it's much smaller than fullscreen.  I was thinking MAME controlled the resolution output, but perhaps it's also tied to what you have your Windows resolution set to as well?

Any ideas?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: moundy on October 18, 2011, 07:19:04 pm
     I have a multisync monitor(nec xm-2950), an ATI xfx hd 4890, an i7 2600k , xp pro 32 and xp 64 bit, Windows 7, and all the hard drive space you could ask for. I want to build a very stable system to put in a cab I've been building. I mainly want MAME, and older consoles(SNES,NES,Genesis,PS1...etc) and Hyperspin. What would be the best windows OS to use for my setup that would be able to use advantage of soft15khz yet get the most performance? I'm guessing xp 64bit but I'm just not sure. I'm also gonna post a similar thread in groovymame as well about it's use.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 19, 2011, 02:07:50 am
I'd go for XP64 as long as you can get drivers for everything.
Title: 16:9 modes?
Post by: Paradroid on October 19, 2011, 05:03:28 am
G'day.

I'm loving Soft-15kHz on my SCART TVs! So thankful that this tool exists!

I have a few different TVs that I've been playing around with including a 16:9 aspect ratio model. Of course, this isn't very useful for playing classic games but it looks great for playing modern PC games and watching movies.

I'm wondering if it's possible to create an interlaced 16:9 mode for use with Soft-15kHz. I'm hoping for something like 640 × 360 interlaced. I'm completely ignorant to whether this is possible and, if it is, how to go about creating the appropriate modelines.

Any help or advice would be very much appreciated! :)

Thanks,
Dale
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 19, 2011, 07:41:19 am
Actually I used a 35" 16:9 hantarex for 1280x720i (more like 1280x600 visible at 50Hz) and iirc 1024x576@50i / 848x480@60i.

Changing the number of lines isn't recommended. Rather change the X-resolution.

modeline "1024x576-50i" 20,79 1024 1072 1176 1328 576 580 584 626 interlace -hsync -vsync
modeline "896x512-60i" 18,37 896 928 1024 1152 512 514 520 536 interlace -hsync -vsync
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Paradroid on October 19, 2011, 08:57:04 am
Awesome! Thanks SailorSat!

Both those modes worked but, unfortunately, the funky video processing on my Loewe Cantus makes a mess of things. The 896x512 looks weird and while the 1024x576 looks better, 720x480 still looks nicer for some reason. I don't know what's going on inside the TV but it's obviously doing something unfriendly to those modes. They actually look chunkier than the lower resolutions.

Are there any other 16:9 modes I can try?

I guess I'll have to try these on a different 16:9 CRT when I get a chance...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Markade on October 19, 2011, 01:57:38 pm
Hello SailorSat!

Having problems again, those time unexpected -_-.

Finally, drop the idea of using a nvidia, and buyed a cheap Ati Radeon HD 4770, GDDR5. I thought that with the Ati there was no problem using Softh15khz... but it does not work with my card.

The older catalyst drivers that I can use is 9.5. When I install the 15khz, reboot the system, and the card still is using 31khz.

Any idea? I've been searching in this forum and others, and all the information I get is that it should work... but it does not.

Thanks for your help!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 19, 2011, 02:21:34 pm
Hm... That's actually strange.
You DO get all the lowres resolutions via quickres?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Markade on October 19, 2011, 06:59:02 pm
Hm... That's actually strange.
You DO get all the lowres resolutions via quickres?

Oh my God.

When I changed the resolution with Quickres, i was seeing it on the TV.  :'( I've been fooling for two days with it before asking, and it was that simple...

Thanks a lot SailorSat  :notworthy:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Paradroid on October 20, 2011, 02:54:56 am
Hm... That's actually strange.

Strange, yes, but not surprising to me. Loewes are the easiest SCART TVs to come by in my part of the world (Australia). I've tested out a whole bunch now and they all behave differently (according to the model of the chassis). Some of them auto deinterlace, some have dot crawl, some don't have dot crawl, some interlace on low res modes ( ??? ), some seem to completely resample the image, etc. Seems the older chassis numbers are better for MAME/SCART. Less processing.

So, yes, the low res modes do work on the 16:9 model I tried but it's mixed success across the board with the Loewes. I'll try the modes you gave me on the 4:3 models and see how they behave.

Thanks again for your help! :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Paradroid on October 20, 2011, 06:14:40 am
Yep, confirmed: the Loewe Cantus does some weird stuff to those two 16:9 modes. Both resolutions looked glorious (albeit stretched) when tested on my Grundig 70-703 NIC/TOP that I have here. Guess I need to find a 16:9 television that doesn't mess with the picture so much. :( :badmood:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Markade on October 20, 2011, 07:26:20 am
By the way, SailorSat, just one thing. I've been trying to set up 2 screen, 1 to the arcade monitor at 15khz using your tool, and the other one to a TFT at 31khz. When I start the computer with both screens, I can't see anything. Do you know if it's possible to do it?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 20, 2011, 08:38:30 am
Hm... It is possible, but you need to fool around in the registry.
Currently S15K forces detection of all VGA ports.

If you connect a standard monitor via VGA cable, it could work because usually screens communicate with the vga card via DDC and tell them what brand, type of screen and resolution they are. Those DDC-modes have a higher priority.

If you connect a monitor via DVI cable, there will be 3 possible routes (vga1, vga2, dvi1) and most likely you need to select the correct order via forceware/catalyst tools.

Another side note: currently s15k adds the mode definitions for analog AND digital outputs.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Markade on October 20, 2011, 10:29:13 am
I see. I will try, and post any news.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: alexv on October 21, 2011, 07:09:03 am
I want to use this tool, but since bootup will still be in 31khz, is there any risk of damaging my monitor? I have a Wells Gardner K7000.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Calamity on October 21, 2011, 12:29:20 pm
Awesome! Thanks SailorSat!

Both those modes worked but, unfortunately, the funky video processing on my Loewe Cantus makes a mess of things. The 896x512 looks weird and while the 1024x576 looks better, 720x480 still looks nicer for some reason. I don't know what's going on inside the TV but it's obviously doing something unfriendly to those modes. They actually look chunkier than the lower resolutions.

Are there any other 16:9 modes I can try?

I guess I'll have to try these on a different 16:9 CRT when I get a chance...

Hi Paradroid, check this thread in case it could be of interest:

http://www.dvdplaza.com.au/forums/showthread.php?s=&t=19396&f=15&pp=15&page=1 (http://www.dvdplaza.com.au/forums/showthread.php?s=&t=19396&f=15&pp=15&page=1)

Basically, Loewe TVs with chassis Q2500 are preset to de-interlace NTSC 480i signals, and convert them into 480p@60Hz. On the other hand PAL signals seem to follow a different path and are digitally converted into 100 Hz. However you can enable the de-interlacing system for PAL signals too, using the Service Menu (explained in the article), that will convert those signals into 576p@50Hz.

I've just tested this with DVD and Satelite PAL signals via SCART and it works great (L. Articos 32"), however haven't tested it with custom modelines from a PC, so I'd be interested in your results.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Paradroid on October 22, 2011, 08:06:57 am
Hey Calamity! If there's anything in particular you want me to test, just let me know! It's been trial and error so far, working out which SCART TVs are best suited to the task. Just because they look good with analogue television or connected to a DVD player doesn't mean they'll work well with all PC resolutions in my experience!

Currently, I have 3 Loewe TVs (all different chassis numbers), a Grundig and a Metz. The Metz is interesting in that every resolution seems to be interlaced (even the very low ones!) and no resolutions show scanlines. Personally, I don't like that: I love scanlines! However, I imagine some people might prefer that because it makes the image brighter and the colors look more continuous.

Anyway, if there's anything particular you'd like me to try with any of those TVs just holler. The more information available to people getting into this, the better.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: apfelanni on October 22, 2011, 04:53:08 pm
@paradroid : in case ur metz tv is a 100 hertz modell with chassis 601g , 603 or 605 u can feed it with 640x480 p or 800x600 p via a metz vga-scart cable. i tested it on a metz astral ( flat philips tube with 605 chassis ) and the vga picture is top notch .
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Paradroid on October 24, 2011, 05:01:09 pm
Interesting! Do you know what the difference between a Metz VGA-SCART cable and a regular home brew VGA-SCART cable is? Perhaps I could make one?

I see in the input menu for the TV that there are options for many different things (S-VIDEO, RGB, etc.) including a "PC" option.

BTW, it's a Metz Linos-S 84TG87. Amazing looking screen (massive!) and nice case design. I just wish it didn't do so much image processing to the lo-res modes. It would be perfect for me otherwise...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: apfelanni on October 25, 2011, 03:55:18 pm
working in vga mode u can turn everything off . the osd + service osd offer a lot of options. some older chassis may need a firmware update . i upped my linea to the last firmware version via the 9 pin sub d and a serial cable 1:1 cable. solder the cable and try the vga mode. u may be surprised . the original metz cable comes without audio in , so i soldered one with ad audio cables to the scart connector . it works fine . pic shows the first subject , metz linea . i would rate the pic quality 2 , the other astral and kreta with 605 chassis are better . chassis 600g1 also works with vga in . service mode : p+ and p- and press power on . last firmware is 2.41.  if u need it i can upload on rs . my first cable was without sound , now i use such roline vga + audio cables for the metz . the audio wires are included , so no extra audio cable ending in the scart plug . rgb are coax , soldering is a little painful , but quality is better than standard 15 / 15 cables .
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Paradroid on October 25, 2011, 04:35:56 pm
@apfelanni: Wow! Thanks SO much for putting in all that effort to help me!

I'll definitely check all this out in detail when I get home from work tonight. Much appreciated! :)

This forum is amazing! :D
Title: Metz VGA
Post by: Paradroid on October 27, 2011, 01:15:21 am
Okay, so I've checked out the wiring diagram and rewritten it in English.

Can someone please have a look over what I've done and check if it's correct before I bust out the soldering iron?

apfelanni, I still haven't checked the firmware of my Linos yet but that screenshot you posted has me pretty inspired: the image quality looks awesome! Considering my Linos is impressive due to the massive screen, I'd still love to put it to good use (even though lo-res modes don't work the way I'd hoped them too).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: apfelanni on October 27, 2011, 01:27:00 pm
nice job with the translation . rgb + h+v sync + the shield / ground wires . u can solder each ground  ( coz usually all grounds are connected on the chassis scart female connector ) or daisy chain them in the scart plug like metz does . 

- solder the cable
- enable pc in osd , sometimes its the bottom , sometimes the top scart plug . it depends on the model .
- set console ( dreamcast , xbox , x360 , wii , whatever to 640x480 p 60 hertz and ur done . 800x600 in 60 hertz is another option.
- cut a 1 dollar audio cable with pc audio plug and solder it to the scart pins r/l/g . metz tvs have good audio amps and speakers , so its worth to spend the extra 10 minutes .
- if the osd shows > pc as an option for av u may not need a firmupdate . older osd dont have that option . updating is easy goin , but it takes half an hour ( with save and verify ) to send all data through the com1 port.   
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Justin on October 27, 2011, 02:53:27 pm
Question which I couldn't get answered through the FAQ.s:

Is there any benefit of running soft15 on a regular Television set?  I am using a TV via the S-Video input.  My card is a Radeon which has an S-Video out.   

I actually run it at 1024x768 because this is the adequate resolution for HyperSpin, and also MAME runs nicely at 1024x768.  benefit is there is no switching of resolution from Hyperspin to Mame every time you launch a game.

I wonder if with Soft15 I can more precisely output exact number of lines via S-Video?  Am I making any sense?  :)   If there is any opportunity of making things look better, Im all for it.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: MonMotha on October 27, 2011, 03:55:59 pm
Question which I couldn't get answered through the FAQ.s:

Is there any benefit of running soft15 on a regular Television set?  I am using a TV via the S-Video input.  My card is a Radeon which has an S-Video out.   

I actually run it at 1024x768 because this is the adequate resolution for HyperSpin, and also MAME runs nicely at 1024x768.  benefit is there is no switching of resolution from Hyperspin to Mame every time you launch a game.

I wonder if with Soft15 I can more precisely output exact number of lines via S-Video?  Am I making any sense?  :)   If there is any opportunity of making things look better, Im all for it.

Generally no.  The video card will re-scale it no matter what.  In fact, some of the s-video outputs don't support anything below 640x480p as the "input" to the s-video scaler, anyway.

You *can* combine Soft15k with either the "component" (YPbPr) outputs found on some video cards from ~4-6 years ago or an outboard RGB to S-Video converter.  This would give you complete control over everything, but it's more complicated.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: iori01 on November 20, 2011, 05:52:28 pm
hello,

I have a technical question; as I need a good nvidia card for my new arcade cabinet I don't know which one to chose.

I need 15,24 and 31 Khz in win XP

Do you think a GTX460 + EDID dongle will work ?
Also , is it true that nvidia is limited to 32 modelines ?

(I don't want ATI card, as kof Mira don't work ! )

Thanks for your help.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 20, 2011, 08:01:35 pm
Good one.
Basically my GTX460 worked fine with the dongle last time I tried (using XP).

32 modes limit is true for the "old" format drivers (XP). Haven't tried on the "new" format drivers (Vista/Seven).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: iori01 on November 21, 2011, 09:04:12 am
Fine, thanks sailorsat.

For this setup , I think I will go for XP 64bits version.
I hope it will be ok, if no will revert back to x86 version.

one last question, is it your dongle on arcadeshop.de ?
If no, where can I bought your dongle ?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 21, 2011, 09:14:03 am
These are production run dongles, yes.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: orchidius on November 22, 2011, 04:08:04 am
Hi there,

I've picked up work again on my never-ending arcade project, and seemingly one of the last hurdles to tackle is the SCART cable and tv setup (been struggling with that one for a while now). The cab now runs off a relatively new core2duo laptop with a Nvidia geforce 7300 GPU. I currently have the following cable setup:

VGA -----------> SCART
1                      15
6                      13
2                      11
7                       9
3                       7
8                       5
9       100ohm     16
5                      18
13    1000ohm     20
14    1000ohm     20
10                     17

But this setup is not working. Here's the picture I'm getting: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/39/img0788d.jpg/. (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/39/img0788d.jpg/.) Could the problem here be that the card is too "new" for the soft15khz tool? Are the drivers not right? Is the cable not right (again)? Could it be fixed with a dongle?

Please help!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on November 22, 2011, 04:40:05 am
Hm... Are you sure the TV is on the right channel? (AV-1 or whatever)

You can try if the card is giving the right frequencies by unplugin the SCART cable and plugin a VGA monitor. Once you select 640x480 or any other "low resolution" the VGA screen should either turn off or show something like "frequency out of range".
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: orchidius on November 22, 2011, 05:13:29 am
This is what I'm getting when I plug in an average CRT computermonitor on just the 15khz setting. It's obviously doing something, but is this the "right" thing?

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/821/img0789nr.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/821/img0789nr.jpg/)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: apfelanni on November 22, 2011, 03:05:31 pm
.. and the right scart plug , if u have multiple . sometimes not all of em are rgb compatible .
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: orchidius on November 22, 2011, 03:32:49 pm
TV set has two, tried both.

Also tried my other laptop today, to no avail. It's a Nvidia 6300. Same result.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: apfelanni on November 23, 2011, 02:28:49 pm
maybe an incompatible forceware version or no forceware installed ?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: orchidius on November 27, 2011, 04:05:31 am
Excuse my ignorance, but what is forceware?  :embarassed: Haven't really had to fiddle with that in the past...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: apfelanni on November 27, 2011, 10:58:32 am
hehe .. its an nvidia driver package like ati's catalyst .. without it soft 15 wont work . find a fitting version for ur card . sometimes older driver packs work better than newer ones . 5 minutes reading can save u a lot of try n error testing. 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: orchidius on November 27, 2011, 03:32:21 pm
Please tell me where to start reading then :D I've been looking around, but apart from this forum there doesn't really seem to be thàt much around? In a previous setup I did have to adjust my catalyst drivers, but that situation was completely different. 15Khz wouldn't let me "instal" the 15khz mode. In this particular scenario, everything SEEMS to be working properly, but obviously it's not...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: apfelanni on November 28, 2011, 12:02:18 pm
page 1 post 1 points to the home of soft 15 k . pickin a card known as well working might be a good start .. dunno how ur 7xxx nvidia behaves .. the only nvidia i testet were 5200 agp and 6100 onboard and both were doin fine . once a 7xxx onboard caused a lot of trouble , so i decided to put in a ati 4350 pci express . for classic gaming cheap 9200 / 9250 agp atis are a good choice.

http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?7925-Getestete-Grafikkarten (http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?7925-Getestete-Grafikkarten)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: orchidius on November 28, 2011, 08:47:31 pm
The scheiss is that the thing is in a laptop, so no easy swapovers there... The laptop setup is absolutely pérfect for my build, were it not that it ain't working...  :-\
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: iori01 on December 05, 2011, 10:08:47 am
Hi Sailorsat,

another question about Nvidia custom résolution restriction.

Do you know if the limit of 32 modelines include the 'normal' modelines 640x480, 800x600, etc ... ?
Or it is, 32 custom + normal modelines ?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: rexel on December 05, 2011, 08:44:51 pm
nevermind.. got it working.. now troubleshooting with other soft15khz issues.. (resolutions etc)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: karnov64 on December 07, 2011, 07:01:36 am
hi i have 2 questions plz:

1. i notice when i install soft15khz i get the option to apply it to Adapter #1 or Adapter #2 of my intel GMA video (i have a 'dual display' laptop). im not really sure if i should apply soft15khz to both adapters, or just one of them (which one, adapter number #1 or #2?)

2. i notice when i try to setup soft15khz, it warns me that my intel GMA video is limited to five resolution definitions. this is ok for me as i only need to use one, but how do i know which one i can use? is there a list somewhere (in registry?) so i can see the 5 modelines i can choose from?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: iori01 on December 21, 2011, 03:19:35 am
Hello,

I just recently bought a GTX 460 for soft15Khz use.
Unfortunately, even with EDID dongle, it is impossible to get resolution with pixel clock lower than 8.00Mhz  :hissy:

I know it is possible to tweak modelines, but it is to share with other that this card seems not so good with Soft15Khz.

Except if sailorssat knows a tips to make it working.

Sailorsat if you read me  :notworthy:

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: karnov64 on December 21, 2011, 07:17:01 am
Hello, I just recently bought a GTX 460 for soft15Khz use. Unfortunately, even with EDID dongle, it is impossible to get resolution with pixel clock lower than 8.00Mhz  :hissy: I know it is possible to tweak modelines, but it is to share with other that this card seems not so good with Soft15Khz. Except if sailorssat knows a tips to make it working. Sailorsat if you read me  :notworthy:

well iorio1, it looks like we arrived too late to the party...  :D

(http://northamptonlife.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/tumbleweed-rolling.jpg)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: iori01 on December 21, 2011, 08:35:04 am
Sorry Karnov64,

I was not looking at your post.

For your issue :

1 : apply to both, in that case you are sure that you will have 15Khz !

2 : in that case, you have to use the custom modelines install. Just create the *.txt with the 5 modelines you need and install those one.

Enjoy
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 22, 2011, 10:27:15 am
Hm... My GTX460 (and a GTX260) worked fine even with the lowest settings. Maybe there are different chip revisions?

You could try the "universal" resolution approach.

That means, take one resolution like 2560x240 and tell mame to stretch to fullscreen.
You won't get any visible stretching artifacts because the resolution is so high.

But you will need to add other big resolutions with different amount of lines (x224, x256 etc.) for other games.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: karnov64 on December 22, 2011, 07:36:46 pm
SAILORSAT sorry to ask here but may i ask a question, you could answer with just one word if you want (yes or no): :laugh:
will there be anymore cabmame releases? (or perhaps 0.143 is the final one)

and iori01: .. thanks for your help but i have discovered soft15khz is not working for my laptop with intel mobile 965 gfx (very poor basic gfx device  :()  (also powerstrip does not work, so i gave up :lol)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 23, 2011, 01:49:24 am
Yes there will be a 0.145 release.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: iori01 on December 24, 2011, 03:55:22 am
Thanks sailorsat for reply,

But I found another solution, I just bought a 8800 GTX for cheap as mentioned in your thread, and works amazing,
Every resolution is OK, and no more bug or graphical artefact in Type X game.

Also, I have another request, I was testing your hack of Zsnes 1.51, works amazing except a small artefact under textbox on some game. In the mean time, I found version 1.42 released by dabone with the same kind of hack, works fine without artefact, but it's based on 1.42 version.

I would like to ask you some help to apply hack of dabone (source available) on the 1.51 release, do you think you can help me ?

Many thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: C4N3 on January 03, 2012, 09:40:49 am
Hi SailorSat,
Thanks for your investment in this tool and the hardwork you have put forth supporting it. I have what I hope is a quick question. I have purchased a J-Pac which I am attempting to use with a Konami X-Men (4-player) cabinet with original 25in WG monitor. I am able to get my laptop (which has a cracked screen) to connect to and display successfully on the arcade monitor only after booting into windows and then connecting it as a secondary monitor. However, everytime the laptop is rebooted it will lose the 640x480 resolution and will be at least 800 x 600 which causes the arcade monitor to roll (because I don't think it supports anything higher than 640 x 480). I am using Windows XP SP3 and Hyperspin FE. Do you have any suggestions for how I can force windows XP to boot into 640 x 480 or prevent it from using any resolution higher than that? I'm not worried about damaging the arcade monitor because of the J-Pac, but I would like to get this working. Thanks!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wilch on January 10, 2012, 01:17:56 pm
Didn't know where to post this, but I use soft-15khz so I'll ask here.

I was wondering if there is a software flicker filter I can use for interlaced games, as I simply don't use this resolution due to the eye-raping flicker. This would be amazing for gamecube & ps2 emulation too.
I could ask the creators of the respective emulators to incorporate a flicker filter, but I can't imagine them catering to such a small minority.

I would also be willing to migrate my emulation activities to linux/ubuntu if anyone knows of a flicker filter for those OSs

thanks for reading!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: M3d10n on January 29, 2012, 01:20:07 pm
I'm having a problem with a GeForce 6600 on the TV-based cab I'm building: it switches to 31KHz for any resolution where the width is smaller than 384. This means only CPS1 and CPS2 games look right: NeoGeo and all other consoles go out of sync on the TV.

I'm on Windows XP 32-bit using Forceware 71.84. The card is PCI-express. Is there anything I could try to get it working? Custom resolutions? BIOS flashing?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 29, 2012, 01:37:52 pm
@C4N3:
800x600 should be fine, as it still is 15kHz, but 50Hz vertical (thats where the rolling comes from.)

@wilch:
Use low resolution modes. Not the interlaced ones.

@M3d10n:
Do ALL of the lower res modes behave like that?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: M3d10n on January 29, 2012, 01:42:26 pm
@M3d10n:
Do ALL of the lower res modes behave like that?

No, the resolution used by CPS and CPS2 games seems to work flawlessly. It fooled me into thinking everything was working, because those were the first I tried. It was only when trying to run NeoGeo games that things broke down.

BTW, I'm using CabMAME 0.141.

Also, seems only the width causes the problem. Resolutions like 512x240 and 640x240 work normally (but they don't solve my problems because CabMame doesn't seem to allow non-uniform scaling).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: karnov64 on January 31, 2012, 02:49:41 pm
sailorsat when u compile cabmame32ui 145 (as promised :lol) could you PLZ add the frogger/galaxian fix (frogger.diff) as i dont know how to compile myself :(

(ps. sorry i have to ask cabmame questions here but when i try to join the official cabmame forum (http://community.arcadeinfo.de (http://community.arcadeinfo.de)) it wont seem to allow/confirm/add my new forum user account, so i cannot join)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 10, 2012, 02:16:01 pm
Consider it done.
Will upload the binaries later.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: karnov64 on February 10, 2012, 08:58:50 pm
Consider it done.
Will upload the binaries later.

thanku so much, i love cabmame :lol

ps. maybe you can tell me what line i add to MAME.INI to enable the frogger.diff hack? (or is is supposed to work automatically by default?)
i am having trouble and am wondering if frogger.diff is working ok? (note. im using directdraw and cabmameui32) .. i can provide my mame.ini or any other files if u like (here is my basic setup below):
(http://i39.tinypic.com/ieqs1u.png)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: 81ramirez on February 16, 2012, 01:07:14 pm
Would an 24c512 eeprom be suitable to use in a Edid dongle?
Thanks.


EDIT:

Or better yet, would a 24lc02b work? Would it need any modification?

(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/4803/82141999.png)

Thanks.

EDIT2:

Looking ate this image, I can see that you are using an 24lc02b.
(http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/7177/50106360.png)

How do I wire it? Using an 24lc22a it would be:

VGA Pins 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 13 and 14 are wired from the male to the female connector.
VGA Pins 5, 9, 11, 12 and 14 are wired to the 24LC22A.

or??

VGA 14 (VSync) -> IC 7 (VCLK)
VGA 15 (SCL) -> IC 6 (SCL)
VGA 12 (SDA) -> IC 5 (SDA)
VGA 09 (+5V) -> IC 8 (Vcc)
VGA 05 (GND) -> IC 4 (Vss)

I don't know which one is right and anyway, the 24lc02b have a WT instead of VCLK... what do I have to change?

Thanks.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on February 23, 2012, 05:20:20 pm
You don't have to change anything.
Although not needed, VSYNC still goes to same pin. It will toggle Write Protection of the chip.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: 81ramirez on February 23, 2012, 10:03:34 pm
Thanks SailorSat.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retronerd on March 04, 2012, 03:55:48 pm
What is the best driver for Ati Radeon HD 4350 to run with soft 15khz?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on March 05, 2012, 06:45:55 pm
Hi.
I have upgraded mt x800xl with a Radeon HD 4650.
I've installed catalyst 9.3, installed soft-15KHz, rebooted. All is ok
I've noticed that between custom resolutions now I have many "native resolutions" (31KHz) and I don't know how to remove them (I cant find them in winmodelines).

This is the 4650 I'm using now: http://www.hisdigital.com/UserFiles/product/SK3-12B_A_1600.jpg (http://www.hisdigital.com/UserFiles/product/SK3-12B_A_1600.jpg)
I use a DVI 2 VGA adapter.

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 05, 2012, 07:07:35 pm
Use the other output...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Haggar on March 05, 2012, 07:10:06 pm
Thanks for the answer. I've solved the detection problem (and edited the message while you were answering me).

Now I have this issue:

I've noticed that between custom resolutions now I have some "native resolutions" (31KHz) and I don't know how to remove them (I cant find them in winmodelines).

Thanks

Edit: Solved uninstalling and reinstalling all ati software.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ac3 on March 11, 2012, 09:08:49 am
I plan on using soft15khz for the first time on a windows xp pc, I have either a Geforce 7300GS or a Radeon X300 pci graphics card. Does anyone know if either of these cards are fully compatible? and if so drivers are recommended?. Any help is very much appreciated. ;)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Paradroid on March 12, 2012, 06:10:26 am
I'd go with the X300. I have 2 and they work perfectly with lo res modes.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: comatsu on March 12, 2012, 05:43:38 pm
I have an old nx9010 HP/Compaq laptop running MAME which I intend to hook up to my cabinet through a jpac.
Do I understand correctly that by using soft15Khz I am doing away with the need to purchase a vga to cga converter?

Anyone know if this program will work with my laptop? (from what I can find online the graphics card is a AGP 4x - ATI Radeon IGP345M
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 12, 2012, 06:37:20 pm
Should work, since its radeon based and "not too new"
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ac3 on March 12, 2012, 08:41:06 pm
Thanks Paradroid. :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: comatsu on March 13, 2012, 10:02:37 am
Thanks StarSailor.

Anyone can help me write a correct custom resolution for a Hantarex Polo 25?
When I install 15Khz modes in soft15Khz I only get the 720*480 resolution in windows, so I assume I will need to install it as a user resolution.

(I will be connecting the Polo to my additional vga port on my laptop through a jpac)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ved on March 15, 2012, 01:15:27 pm
Hello SailorSat, and thanx for your work on this incredible Soft15khz.

As many people in this forum, i have a question : my ATI hd4670 work on win7 with soft15khz (Catalyst 12.2, monitor @25hz on 1024x768 and 1280x720) but... screen refresh rate is at 30hz instead of 60hz (interlaced)!!! and with 15hz resolutions it's the same problem on win7.
It seems that is windows7 problem ? have you informations or issue ?

Ps : all work very well on xp (1024x768 @60hz interlaced...)

Thanx for your answer
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 15, 2012, 01:44:06 pm
Thanks StarSailor.

Anyone can help me write a correct custom resolution for a Hantarex Polo 25?
When I install 15Khz modes in soft15Khz I only get the 720*480 resolution in windows, so I assume I will need to install it as a user resolution.

(I will be connecting the Polo to my additional vga port on my laptop through a jpac)

Most likely you will not see the additional modes as long as your internal screen is enabled.
Try using the Polo as seconds screen.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tman78 on March 19, 2012, 10:33:15 pm
I'm very late to this party, so please forgive me if I should post elsewhere.

I'm building my cabinet and have been putting off/researching monitor choices.  I'd like to do an LCD as they are lightweight, relatively cheap for the size, plentiful, versatile, etc.

I have some questions about soft15khz that I've tried to verify but am not sure about.


Is there a way for you to make those Triad images available again, or are they not needed?

Thanks a lot, and if I'm off base on anything please let me know.
-Taylor
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 20, 2012, 03:02:02 am
TV with SCART = fine
TV with VGA = no need for Soft-15kHz; however you could use a set of 31khz lowres look-a-like resolutions
LCD TV = yup, use DVI/VGA whatever connection and native resolution. tune the rest in software.

As for the filters: here (http://images.arianchen.de/?x=filter)

(http://images.arianchen.de/tn_ninjamas_4x_bifilter_triad6.png) (http://images.arianchen.de/ninjamas_4x_bifilter_triad6.png)
Neo-Geo - 4 times enlarged, bilinear filter, triad6 "effect".
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tman78 on March 20, 2012, 09:31:59 am
Thank you.  None of the png files from images.arianchen.de display, all are blank.  Is that correct simply because they are filters? 
Where in MAME do you place these filters?

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 20, 2012, 11:31:13 am
IIRC you must place them in the "artwork" folder and set them in mame.ini.
The option is called "effect".
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ved on March 22, 2012, 08:37:29 am
Hello SailorSat,

Have you an idea about windows 7 running soft15khz resolutions at only 30hz ????

You are my only hope  :notworthy:

------------------------------------Original message -------------------------------
Hello SailorSat, and thanx for your work on this incredible Soft15khz.

As many people in this forum, i have a question : my ATI hd4670 work on win7 with soft15khz (Catalyst 12.2, monitor @25hz on 1024x768 and 1280x720) but... screen refresh rate is at 30hz instead of 60hz (interlaced)!!! and with 15hz resolutions it's the same problem on win7.
It seems that is windows7 problem ? have you informations or issue ?

Ps : all work very well on xp (1024x768 @60hz interlaced...)

Thanx for your answer
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on March 22, 2012, 10:41:59 am
I don't have a clue. I suspect either Windows or the Driver figures "oh interlace, lets halve the values then!"
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Bluedeath on April 11, 2012, 05:41:55 am
HI i need some help i'm trying to make soft 15khz work on a AMD fusion asus e35m1-pro (it has a radeon 6310 onboard) on winxp64, every time that i install soft 15khz after reboot display reverts to vga 16 colors is there any way to make this configuration work?
Many thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 11, 2012, 08:25:25 am
Does Windows even list any resolutions now?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Bluedeath on April 12, 2012, 07:12:01 am
It seems not getting any of the resolutions, i still have to try XP32 to see if is a OS issue, in linux card seems to be capable at least to show 640x480 interlaced but i didn't have the time to experiment properly to understand if standard arcade res can be visualized.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Arnold101 on April 12, 2012, 08:42:57 pm
any news about ati 5770 and nvidia 250gts? thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Arnold101 on April 14, 2012, 04:53:19 pm
i have installed soft15khz on xp64 driver 10.2 and 5770, it install and i see all the low res on quikres and i can switch too, BUT non in 15khz!! :((( it remains to 31khz.. sigh  :embarassed:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 14, 2012, 07:19:52 pm
I would have guessed. HD5000 and HD6000 don't work at all. Most likely the same "safe mode" ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- that nvidia introduced...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Arnold101 on April 14, 2012, 08:22:50 pm
:(...so you can't do nothing? i've tried with powerstrip too and same result
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: abispac on April 18, 2012, 12:23:03 am
Hi,

i have amotherboardwith a GMA3150 built-in.
I would like to put this MB in my CAB, with  XP with Soft-15hz.
I think I understood that GMA processors are not fully supported and that only 5 resolutions can be used.

Does any gma processor are supported?Which are the 5 resolution that can be used? and how do i add them?
I wil be using hyperspin so i guess i need 640x480 or 800x600
neogeo games
cps2 games
and pacman ,galaga,and donkeykong wich i think they should be the same resolution.

many thanks for your futures answers!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: kamranijaz on April 21, 2012, 12:15:59 pm
I would have guessed. HD5000 and HD6000 don't work at all. Most likely the same "safe mode" ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- that nvidia introduced...


Hi SailorSat,

I am really new in arcade machine setups and so, i just bought sega naomi universal cab and upgrading the existing system in it which is quite old with ipac setup in it, I have bought new Q6600 processor and the HD4650 as you mentioned in your card compatibility list and installed windows 7 64bit. my monitor is nanao with toshiba tube only output 31khz.

my question is if i install the lower resolution will they work properly on that arcade monitor or they will do some harm to the monitor screen. or i need to stick with 31khz mode only. as i need to play different emulators like demul, supermodel3 etc which requires high end graphics card than the processor power.

thanks

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 22, 2012, 02:09:36 pm
Hm... Depends on the screen. If it is a 31kHz screen you most likely will see garbage on screen - and should not run it that way for too long.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: isucamper on April 25, 2012, 10:41:34 am
This may have been addressed somewhere but I couldn't find it.

Is there a modeline I can use with an NES emulator to get the native resolution (256x240) and native refresh rate (60.098hz) of the original system?

My issue:  I want to be able to run NES games without screen tearing and without enabling V-Sync.  Enabling V-Sync induces lag in the emulators I've tried.  On Nestopia, the lag is very obvious.  On VirtuaNes, the lag is almost imperceptable but I know it's there because I can't beat Mike Tyson's Punchout when it is enabled.  In fact, the only time I can beat Punchout is when I use Nestopia and disable v-sync.  VirtuaNes still seems a little slow when V-sync is disabled. 

So, my theory is that if I run the emulator at its native resolution and refresh rate, and play it on a TV, then there should be no screen tearing since its behaving like the original hardware and should match up properly with the strobing of the television. 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 25, 2012, 11:05:04 am
Take a look at:
http://www.geocities.ws/podernixie/htpc/modes-en.html (http://www.geocities.ws/podernixie/htpc/modes-en.html)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: RobMcRaf on May 02, 2012, 04:05:47 am
A request:

Can you add an option to exclude some of the "standard" resolutions?
(or allow me to edit the entries before sending them to the registry)

I use the following setup:
- My monitor is configured to display ~288/576 lines which means that 240/480 line modes will not fill the entire height. In mame I fill the borders on left/right with artwork so therefore I want the 240 modes to be "letterboxed" (e.g. 288x240 instead of 240x240) and also tweak the start slightly so they are centered on the monitor.
- I prefer double-sized interlace resolutions since I don't like visible scanlines (specially not in the artwork).

This means that I don't want to use many of the "standard" resolutions but still want to use your excellent tool.

Also, how can you do 800x600x50Hz in 15KHz? On my Hantarex POLO I have not been able to go higher than 47Hz.

My Polo doesn't like 800x600 either, and it doesn't handle interlacing at 640x480.  Looks like crap.  the WG in the machine right next to it has good interlaced resolutions, but diagonal faint red lines that I cant seem to adjust away.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: c0dehunter on May 18, 2012, 02:49:16 pm
Thanks to everyone for posting informative information on this thread. OK, I have couple of quick questions:

1- Initially I made a custom built PC runing Windows XP with the following specs:
AMD FX, Asus AMD HD 5450, etc. The video card would simply could not accept 15Khz, and I ended up returning the parts and decided to use my old DELL 2400 desktop with the following specs:

Pentium4 2.4Ghz CPU
2GB DDR RAM
nVidia GeForce 6200 PCI (PNY brand)
Commodore 1084S-D1 RGB monitor (USA NTSC) - connected to the VGA connection of the card above
A custom built VGA to RGB cable (I have tested this and it displays my NEOGEO emulator games perfectly)
LCD connected to DVI connector, running extended desktop and using this as for selecting games and then launching them to the main 1084S-D1 monitor

.



2- Is the above a powerful enough system for running MAMEUI, Neo Geo, Sega, Amiga, Nintendo and other emulators? This is NOT for an arcade cabinet, simply for my desktop gaming sessions
 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: wilch on May 20, 2012, 06:56:43 am
hi, can anyone tell me if there is a soft-15khz equivalent for ubuntu. i know there is the groovyarcade live cd but i believe this does not support amiga or dosbox emulation which is what i'd like to use. thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: MonMotha on June 03, 2012, 11:40:43 am
hi, can anyone tell me if there is a soft-15khz equivalent for ubuntu. i know there is the groovyarcade live cd but i believe this does not support amiga or dosbox emulation which is what i'd like to use. thanks

No real need.  You can just dump the modeline into xorg.conf and specify it as your default (or only) mode, or you can use xrandr to add/change things on the fly.

e.g.

xrandr --newmode "ATSC-640x480-59.94i" 11.958 640 664 736 760 480 484 492 525 Interlace
xrandr --addmode VGA0 "ATSC-640x480-59.94"
xrandr --output VGA0 --mode "ATSC-640x480-59.94i"

(substitute whatever your output in use is named for VGA0 - you can get a list using the command "xrandr -q")

You can also do split modes - e.g. one monitor running a conventional PC mode and another running a low res mode.  This is very handy if you've got a normal PC monitor + an arcade monitor or are using a laptop (so you can keep the onboard panel active for debugging/troubleshooting).  There was a bug up through at least 10.10 that causes major problems if you try this, but it was fixed by 11.10 (and I think 11.04).

I suppose somebody could package all this into a little GUI similar to Soft15k, but the fact that it's relatively straightforward makes it unlikely anyone will bother.  I suppose somebody's probably written a shell script to do it.  Then again, a lot of people seem totally unaware of the existence of xrandr.

In general, the drivers will let you do anything the card is physically capable of.  If you're lucky, they'll even tell you what's wrong if you ask it to do something the hardware can't do (e.g. dot clock too low).

Anything you do with the command line xrandr interface won't "stick" across reboot, so you can just reboot if you mess something up.  If you want something permanent, you can modify xorg.conf to specify the modeline and default mode.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on June 17, 2012, 07:16:55 pm
Cant seem to get soft 15 to install. Geforce 9800GT WITH soft 15 EDID dongle, ran as administrator under win7. Thoughts?

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=186179;image)

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=186203;image)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 12, 2012, 04:24:01 pm
Don't even try NVIDIA on Win7.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on July 12, 2012, 04:40:06 pm
Don't even try NVIDIA on Win7.

Worked with a BFG 6800GT , didnt need the dongle either.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on July 12, 2012, 10:55:49 pm
Worked with a BFG 6800GT , didnt need the dongle either.

On Win7?
Guess its time tom look into an update s15k
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on July 13, 2012, 07:10:20 am
On Win7?
Guess its time tom look into an update s15k

Windows 7 Enterprise 64-bit. When this cab gets sold I plan to donate to the cause either way, I thought about using an AVGA, but I hate ATi cards (especially their driver software package)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sparki82 on July 17, 2012, 01:25:37 am
Hi all,

I'm currently sourcing parts for my first build i will eventually buy the makvison tri mode arcade monitor but for the time being I'll be using a Lg LCD TV. Was just wondering what is the best performing graphics card i can get for my system? I'm currently thinking of buying this;

http://www.digitan.com.au/product.php?productid=63980&cat=1902&page=10 (http://www.digitan.com.au/product.php?productid=63980&cat=1902&page=10)

And is soft15hz the best to get or groovymame? I've been reading through this forum & I'm still confused on this subject? I know groovymame has issues with windows 7 and is limited to ATI HD series 4xxx cards. Dose soft15hz have these same issues? And what would be the easiest to setup for a complete noob!

Sorry for any repetitive questions complete noob! Any advise/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gonzalma on July 25, 2012, 04:22:48 pm
On my first project and am still learning all of this...

Not sure what I am doing wrong.  I followed the instructions (or at least I think I did).  So using Soft15khz, I install the 15khz option for my card NVIDIA Geforce 6200 then using XP QuickRes, I change the resolution to 640 X 480 @60hz and power off the computer.  I disconnect my computer monitor and connect my arcade monitor (Sharp Image SI 327DS) to the DVI port with adapter.  I power on the computer and wait for a couple of minutes (for windows to boot to the desktop) before turning the monitor and I get the dreaded split screen effect.  Which by reading through the forum, means that it is not running at 15khz. 

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7273/7645674022_7d561ce0a2_z.jpg)

So I am not sure what the problem is.  Is my card not compatible.  It is not on the list.  Did I just missing a step somewhere?  For instance, am I suppose to have the computer boot into MAME instead of the desktop?  I would appreciate any advice.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on July 26, 2012, 06:28:50 am
did you install quickres? double click it, it goes to the system tray, right click that to set a resolution
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gonzalma on July 26, 2012, 03:26:26 pm
I appreciate the reply but yes as stated I did use Quick Res to set the 640 X 480.  I went under the assumption that that my current graphics card is not  compatible.  I went ahead and bought a Ati 9600 Pro off of ebay for 20 bucks.  I know that this card is compatible and I get the more then 30 different resolutions that NIVIDA cards are limited too.  Everything else on my machine is done so hopefully in a week I will finally have a fully working system.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on July 26, 2012, 06:00:02 pm
Yup you did, I was reading on my phone and missed that part.  640x480 is higher than my 25k7171 will run (max is 640x240) did you try any other resolutions on your nvidia card?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gonzalma on July 27, 2012, 03:19:25 pm
640X480 is the lowest that Quick Res shows.  How do you add other resolutions?  Also I thought the double screen effect is cause by it not running at 15khz and didnt necessarily have anything to do with the resolution? 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on July 28, 2012, 11:11:06 am
might be the card then.

heres my WG 25K7171 running 640x480:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=186372;image)

and here it is running 640x240:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=186384;image)

both are 15hz resolutions
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Silverwind on July 30, 2012, 01:00:54 am
Take a look at:
http://www.geocities.ws/podernixie/htpc/modes-en.html (http://www.geocities.ws/podernixie/htpc/modes-en.html)

Awesome link, thanks for that!

Are any of the console resolutions not supported by a multi-sync arcade monitor?  I have the betson imperial 27".
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gonzalma on July 31, 2012, 12:17:58 am
It's ALIVE!  Thanks to everyone for all their help.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8422/7681849190_740018bd6d.jpg)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Gage on August 13, 2012, 11:37:58 am
I'm having a similar screen-splitting issue.  It's odd, because it only happens on a few games.  Most of the games play absolutely flawlessly, but if I try to load The Simpsons or G.I. Joe (both Konami games...coincidence?), the games run at what appears to be double speed and the screen becomes split into four identical screens.  I've tried different roms and all appear to have the screen splitting issue.  Any other game runs without issue. 

Are there any settings that might fix this issue?  I'm running cabMAME with soft15khz and use a JPAC/IPAC setup on my four-player arcade cabinet.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on August 13, 2012, 06:10:38 pm
change the resolution the game is trying to run at to something close to native res that doesnt mess up the screen
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Gage on August 14, 2012, 10:48:46 am
change the resolution the game is trying to run at to something close to native res that doesnt mess up the screen

Thanks, Malenko.  Are you talking about actually changing the PC resolution display option or are you talking about adding custom modelines?  (Or somethign entirely different?)  Is there a resource which lists the native resolution for MAME games or can this be found by some other means?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Gage on August 15, 2012, 09:29:25 am
I'm having a similar screen-splitting issue.  It's odd, because it only happens on a few games.  Most of the games play absolutely flawlessly, but if I try to load The Simpsons or G.I. Joe (both Konami games...coincidence?), the games run at what appears to be double speed and the screen becomes split into four identical screens.  I've tried different roms and all appear to have the screen splitting issue.  Any other game runs without issue. 

Are there any settings that might fix this issue?  I'm running cabMAME with soft15khz and use a JPAC/IPAC setup on my four-player arcade cabinet.

Quick update on this... I was able to determine that both Simpsons and G.I. Joe have a resolution of 288x224 (loaded the rom on my home PC instead of the arcade cab and viewed the rom details).  It appears as if  soft15khz doesn't enable this resolution "out of the box".  It sounds like Konami uses this resolution in many of their games.  So my inclination now is to add this as a custom resolution option.  Does this seem like it could be the cause of the screen splitting issue I'm having?

Just to be sure, after doing a little research online, here's how I understand this particular set of modelines can be added in soft15khz:

1. Create a file called custom15khz.txt with the following text inside it:

modeline "288x224@61" 6,050909 288 304 352 384 224 236 254 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "288x224@60" 6,03648 288 304 352 384 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "288x224@60" 6,052147 288 304 352 384 224 238 257 264 -hsync -vsync

2. Save the custom15khz.txt file in the same folder as the soft15khz exe.

3. Open soft15khz and click the Enable User button.

4. Restart the PC.

Does this all look correct?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Gage on August 15, 2012, 07:18:17 pm
I'm having a similar screen-splitting issue.  It's odd, because it only happens on a few games.  Most of the games play absolutely flawlessly, but if I try to load The Simpsons or G.I. Joe (both Konami games...coincidence?), the games run at what appears to be double speed and the screen becomes split into four identical screens.  I've tried different roms and all appear to have the screen splitting issue.  Any other game runs without issue. 

Are there any settings that might fix this issue?  I'm running cabMAME with soft15khz and use a JPAC/IPAC setup on my four-player arcade cabinet.

Quick update on this... I was able to determine that both Simpsons and G.I. Joe have a resolution of 288x224 (loaded the rom on my home PC instead of the arcade cab and viewed the rom details).  It appears as if  soft15khz doesn't enable this resolution "out of the box".  It sounds like Konami uses this resolution in many of their games.  So my inclination now is to add this as a custom resolution option.  Does this seem like it could be the cause of the screen splitting issue I'm having?

Just to be sure, after doing a little research online, here's how I understand this particular set of modelines can be added in soft15khz:

1. Create a file called custom15khz.txt with the following text inside it:

modeline "288x224@61" 6,050909 288 304 352 384 224 236 254 260 -hsync -vsync
modeline "288x224@60" 6,03648 288 304 352 384 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync
modeline "288x224@60" 6,052147 288 304 352 384 224 238 257 264 -hsync -vsync

2. Save the custom15khz.txt file in the same folder as the soft15khz exe.

3. Open soft15khz and click the Enable User button.

4. Restart the PC.

Does this all look correct?

Okay, so ONE MORE update (I must be the only one on the boards today!!)...

I successfully (I think) added the modelines I mentioned above for the Konami games, but it didn't help.  Konami games still split into four screens.  After doing a little more research, I tried setting switchres to "0" in the mame.ini file.  Running the Konami games in cabMAME outside of Hyperspin worked PERFECTLY!  Simpsons, G.I. Joe, Aliens...all worked and looked great.  So it's fixed, right?  Nope.  When I run MAME through Hyperspin, the games play in a single window at their normal speed instead of split into four at double speed (which is an improvement), but it's a window about half of the screen size.  And it's not just the Konami games, it's ALL of the games that run in the tiny little screen.  I set the switchres back to "1" and the all of the games (except the 288x224 Konami titles) run in the full screen mode again.

This might be more of a Hyperspin issue, because as I said earlier, cabMAME runs the games full screen outside of Hyperspin without issue. (Note: I tried launching cabMAME through Hyperspin via both HyperLaunch and non-HyperLaunch with the same result.)

Anybody out there have any thoughts on this?  Because I'm pulling my hair out (and I don't have much left to pull).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on August 15, 2012, 08:18:48 pm
close to what I meant, simpsons runs at 288x224 so find a resolution close to that one that works like 300x240 (i just made that resolution up) just find which res is closest to native and see if it runs. Im not in front of my mame and Im working another 70 hour week this week, wish I coul dbe more help.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Gage on August 15, 2012, 09:48:13 pm
close to what I meant, simpsons runs at 288x224 so find a resolution close to that one that works like 300x240 (i just made that resolution up) just find which res is closest to native and see if it runs. Im not in front of my mame and Im working another 70 hour week this week, wish I coul dbe more help.
Malenko, are you talking about changing the actual PC resolution to something close to the native Simpsons res?  If so, the lowest mine currently goes is 640x480 @60hz.  If you're talking about adding custom modelines to match the resolution, I already attempted that with mixed results (see my string of incoherent posts above).  As of right now, I can get Simpsons to run perfectly in cabMAME with switchres set to "0", as long as it's not running through Hyperspin.  If I run Hyperspin first, then select MAME > The Simpsons, the game runs in a single window (which is an improvement), but the window isn't full screen.  It's about half of the full screen size. 

I'm positive this is simply something I have set incorrectly in either the mame.ini file or in Hyperspin, but I'm evidently not intelligent enough to figure it out.

As for the 70 hour work weeks...ugh.  I hope your job is at least enjoyable.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Malenko on August 17, 2012, 08:03:15 pm
I think maybe my post was incoherent, lol

what if you did a modeline like
modeline "288x224@60" 6,03648 288 304 352 384 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync

except do the calcs to use a slightly higher or loser resolution that fits.  if it works in cabmame it should work in regular mame, do you have mame changing windows resolution to match game resolution? I'll be honest I'm not an expert on soft15 or cabmame
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Gage on August 20, 2012, 12:40:01 pm
I think maybe my post was incoherent, lol

what if you did a modeline like
modeline "288x224@60" 6,03648 288 304 352 384 224 236 256 262 -hsync -vsync

except do the calcs to use a slightly higher or loser resolution that fits.  if it works in cabmame it should work in regular mame, do you have mame changing windows resolution to match game resolution? I'll be honest I'm not an expert on soft15 or cabmame

I guess I'm a little iffy on the best settings when using cabMAME, soft-15khz and Hyperspin as well.  And I guess I'm not sure if the custom modeline I created was applied properly.  Is that able to be checked?

As it sits currently MAME runs perfectly OUTSIDE of Hyperspin (including the troublesome Konami titles) when I have "switchres" set to 0 i nthe mame.ini file.  I assume this means MAME is not switching resolutions.  When I run MAME through Hyperspin though, the game displays in the center of the screen at about half its normal size with black all around it.  Hyperspin is set to display at full screen, though.  Very odd...or I'm just missing something obvious.

Does anybody out there use the cabMAME, soft-15khz and Hyperspin combo that would be willing to post their mame.ini file?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Bluedeath on August 22, 2012, 03:10:47 pm

Edit because i know what is wrong: my card has the 7,12 mhz limit, i bought an old x600 on ebay and i hope it will work, can someone tell me if is so or i jus wasted 15 euros?

This was the original message

Hi i succesfully installed soft 15khz on  a radeon hd 2400xt ( i gave up using the integrated one of the asus m35) i still have a small problem: all the .x240 resolutoons are not @15khz(other seems to be fine) the frequency protection on my jamma adaper filters them out. Any idea why this happens? could replace theese resolutons with new modelines help?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sledge on August 27, 2012, 08:47:50 am
Just wondering if anything has been done to include newer Intel chipsets?
IE the 'Intel HD Graphics 2000' etc as found on the i3-2120 cpu's

Would love to be able to use one of these things in the arcade machine instead of a discrete graphics card.. ??
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: boerbiet on September 06, 2012, 06:39:57 am
I was pleasantly surprised to see my arcade monitor working immediately after installing soft15khz and rebooting. Nice!

There is, however, a small problem of not being able to get the whole "picture" to show. On the left and right side, part of the picture is not visible. Since my monitor only has a dial for changing the horizontal position, not the size, I cannot correct the picture that way.

I don't know much about modelines, but I suspect it has something to do with those. I used a custom list of modelines which I copied from someone who posted them on some emulation forum, who has the same monitor I have (WG Prismatic K7000). These are the custom lines I use:

Code: [Select]
Modeline "240x240@62" 5.05 240 272 288 320 240 245 248 253 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "256x240@62" 5.29 256 288 304 336 240 245 248 253 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "256x256@58" 5.28 256 288 304 336 256 261 264 269 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "256x264@56" 5.30 256 288 304 336 264 269 272 278 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "288x240@62" 5.80 288 320 336 368 240 245 248 253 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "296x240@62" 5.93 296 328 344 376 240 245 248 253 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "304x240@62" 6.06 304 336 352 384 240 245 248 253 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "320x240@62" 6.43 320 352 376 408 240 245 248 253 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "320x256@58" 6.43 320 352 376 408 256 261 264 269 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "336x240@62" 6.68 336 368 392 424 240 245 248 253 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "352x256@58" 6.93 352 384 408 440 256 261 264 269 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "352x264@56" 6.93 352 384 408 440 264 269 272 278 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "352x288@51" 6.93 352 384 408 440 288 297 300 301 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "368x240@62" 7.18 368 400 424 456 240 245 248 253 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "392x240@62" 7.56 392 424 448 480 240 245 248 253 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "384x288@51" 7.44 384 416 440 472 288 288 291 292 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "400x256@58" 7.68 400 432 456 488 256 261 264 269 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "448x240@62" 8.57 448 480 512 544 240 245 248 253 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "512x240@62" 9.58 512 544 576 608 240 245 248 253 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "512x288@51" 9.58 512 544 576 608 288 292 295 296 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "512x488@61i" 9.58 512 544 576 608 488 499 502 513 interlace -hsync -vsync
Modeline "512x512@58i" 9.58 512 544 576 608 512 523 527 539 interlace -hsync -vsync
Modeline "632x264@56" 11.59 632 664 704 736 264 269 272 278 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "640x240@62" 11.72 640 672 712 744 240 245 248 253 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "640x480@62i" 11.72 640 672 712 744 480 491 494 505 interlace -hsync -vsync
Modeline "800x600@49i" 14.36 800 832 880 912 590 595 598 600 interlace -hsync -vsync

I have also attached an image to show what the problem is (look at the top left and right). Sorry for the low quality telephone picture :D

Any hints as to how to correct this are appreciated!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: adder on September 08, 2012, 10:32:50 pm
hi i have a question about soft15khz, i would only like to use one modeline if possible, and that modeline would be 800x600 at 60hz

EDIT: i read around and it seems 800x600_60hz is not possible in 15khz mode

....but i think 640x480 is ok?

i found some modelines:

Modeline "640x480_60 15.62KHz 59.95Hz" 12.980 640 664 728 832 480 482 487 521 interlace -hsync -vsync
                                  Modeline "640x480" 13.09 640 672 736 836 480 486 489 525 interlace -hsync -vsync
       Modeline "640x480 15.750KHz 60iHz" 13.608 640 704 768 864 480 486 492 525 interlace -hsync -vsync

i guess i can use any one of those, doesnt matter which?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Jack Burton on October 16, 2012, 11:19:26 pm
Does anyone have a custom modeline for 1024x768@100hz?  That would really help me out. 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 17, 2012, 10:18:20 am
Modeline "1024x768@100" 126.64 1024 1056 1536 1568 768 781 794 807
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Dr.Venom on October 19, 2012, 06:53:06 am
Hi SailorSat,

We PM'd some time ago on the EAB board, about using Soft15Khz in a dual card setup. I recently purchased a new card, which is set in the primary GFX card slot, but unfortunately it takes 6 entries in the Soft15Khz menu, crowding out completely my HD4850  in the second gfx card slot :(.

See the image below:
(http://i47.tinypic.com/24gltmx.png)

Would it be possible to have the number of possible entries in Soft15Khz enlarged a bit, or maybe have the first 4 entries (vga framebuf etc.) moved to the end of the listing (like you used to have in earlier versions)? That way the HD4850 would show again. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

Best regards
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: adder on October 19, 2012, 07:24:23 am
it takes 6 entries in the Soft15Khz menu, crowding out completely my HD4850  in the second gfx card slot :(

try clicking on one of the visible entries, and then using the down arrow key on your keyboard to move down to one of the entries which is not in view
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 19, 2012, 08:31:50 am
That's a rather creative idea :) Might even work!

Guess I'll "shortem" the menu to a simple dropdown.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Dr.Venom on October 19, 2012, 09:27:10 am
it takes 6 entries in the Soft15Khz menu, crowding out completely my HD4850  in the second gfx card slot :(

try clicking on one of the visible entries, and then using the down arrow key on your keyboard to move down to one of the entries which is not in view

Thanks for the suggestion, but unfortunately it doesn't work. Moving down with the arrow key simply wraps at the last 7800 entry back to the first one.

Guess I'll "shortem" the menu to a simple dropdown.

That would be perfect :)   
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Jack Burton on October 20, 2012, 05:51:59 am
Modeline "1024x768@100" 126.64 1024 1056 1536 1568 768 781 794 807

Thank you, however it looks like this one is way too narrow to fit my monitor even with the horizontal size maxed. 

Is there anyway I can just install a few resolutions with Soft 15khz and keep most of the ones my graphics card uses? If I use the customusers.txt option it causes all manner of issues. 

Is there a way to copy the modelines my graphics cards usually uses?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: amiga500 on November 04, 2012, 02:15:21 pm
Hi,
I have a cabinet perfect working with soft15khz for about 3 years. Now the graphic card I was using broke (ATI 9600XT - 256mb agp). So I replaced it with a spare one I have, it's a Geforce 6200 256mb AGP. Now I don't remember how I had to do this process of setting up the card. I've tried different combinations of resolutions and it shows a double image when Maximus Arcade starts, with the old card it worked great. Is it a card compatibility issue? For example, I can see the Windows Xp loading screen just perfect, but when the desktop loads, or maximus arcade the image gets doubled. I will keep trying to find the right resolution, any help will be appreciated. Thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: amiga500 on November 05, 2012, 01:45:39 pm
Nevermind, I got a ATI 9250 and the problem is solved, I guess the Geforce 6200 wasn't compatible with soft15khz.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Sorex on November 09, 2012, 12:21:44 pm
Hello,

I'm preparing a new setup here for my cabinet.

When I install 15KHz for my Xentor Maxi Gamer card (which appears as an NVidea TNT2/TNT2 Pro card under windows)
I get some new fancy modes but the standard modes now appear blury on my LCD monitor and I need to scroll up/down
for a standard 1024x768 mode which fitted nicely on the screen before.

Is this normal and can I add a custom mode that looks 'good' on this screen?
(I need to use a remote control tool now to be able to read text as it seems to skip pixels)

Also when I check the 1024x768 mode via the modelines tool it lists the mode as 1024x768 but when I double click it it gives 1024x600 in the config window???

I could not use the 15KHz tool with the ATI RAGE Pro Ultra GL AGP card tho, it's just grayed out altho I think it's a better card (has more memory tho 32MB instead of 16Mb in this one)


an additional question...

on my old setup, that also had this TNT2 card, a mode like 640x480 displayed interlaced, problem is that the interlacing is off by 3 or more pixels
so the screen looks shifted too far vertically and the start of a letter appears in the middle again of the same letter.

Can I adjust this with the modelines tool so that it appears normal and readable?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: MTPPC on November 11, 2012, 06:00:27 pm
Why would you use soft15khz with an LCD? That driver is for CGA CRTs
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on December 17, 2012, 02:23:59 am
Also when I check the 1024x768 mode via the modelines tool it lists the mode as 1024x768 but when I double click it it gives 1024x600 in the config window???

I could not use the 15KHz tool with the ATI RAGE Pro Ultra GL AGP card tho, it's just grayed out altho I think it's a better card (has more memory tho 32MB instead of 16Mb in this one)

It's technically impossible to display 768 lines on a 15kHz screen. That 1024x768 is there for software that refuses to run in resolutions below, altough it intentionally cuts the screen.

ATIs Rage can be programed, but you can't add new resolutions. Therefore the buttons are disabled.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: BLASTEROO on December 17, 2012, 11:12:25 am
Hi guys,

I used to have a radeon 9600 pro agp installed on a P4 and it work fine, but I was forced to move to PCI-E due to a mobo failure.

I'm trying to use a RADEON HD 2400PRO = asus eah 2400 pro

http://www.ebay.com/ctg/ASUS-ATI-Radeon-HD-2400PRO-EAH2400pro-HTP-256-256-MB-DDR2-SDRAM-PCI-Express-x16-Graphics-adapter-/73799324 (http://www.ebay.com/ctg/ASUS-ATI-Radeon-HD-2400PRO-EAH2400pro-HTP-256-256-MB-DDR2-SDRAM-PCI-Express-x16-Graphics-adapter-/73799324)

but I can't get it to work with soft15khz.

Anyone using or tested this card? I'm about to call it quits...  :(

All help appreciated

B.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: adder on December 18, 2012, 09:47:31 pm
Quote from: BLASTEROO
I'm trying to use a RADEON HD 2400PRO = asus eah 2400 pro

hmm, should work, as it's on this list:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=119740.0 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=119740.0)

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: MonMotha on December 18, 2012, 09:53:04 pm
HD2400 Pro definitely works.  You have to use an older driver release, IIRC.  The one I have kicking around is from October, 2008, I think.

Also bear in mind that most of these have two outputs.  Both just show up as "Radeon HD2400 Pro".  The first one in the list is usually, but not guaranteed to be, the DVI output.  The second one is (again usually) the analog VGA/RGB output.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: BLASTEROO on December 19, 2012, 08:13:50 am
thanks for the replies, that's good news!

9600 pro was so easy to configure, almost turn key, while hd 2400 pro as been a total headache.

Monmotha,

Any chance you could send me the drivers you're using for hd 2400 pro? Via we transfer maybe?
I'm using win xp 32 bits, currently.

B.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: DeLuSioNal29 on January 25, 2013, 12:43:47 pm
Hi all,

I'm jumping back into setting up this program again on my arcade machine, since my original hard drive failed.  I'm using a different OS this time around (64 bit XP) and I'm having issues with Soft 15kHz.  edit:  Got it working!  Soft15khz ver:  0.1.0.48  works.  Ver:  0.1.51  would not work.

Here's my card that I took a snap of and SailorSat posted as working:  http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?7925-Getestete-Grafikkarten&p=99609&viewfull=1#post99609 (http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?7925-Getestete-Grafikkarten&p=99609&viewfull=1#post99609)


I used to have:
Windows XP (32 bit)
ATI Catalyst 9.2 (32 bit)
Soft15khz ver:  0.1.0.48

Now I have:
Windows XP (64 bit)
ATI Catalyst 9.2 (64 bit)
Edit:  Soft15khz ver:  0.1.0.48 was the version that finally worked. The newer version 0.1.51 did not.

So the big question is:  Does this work with the 64 bit version of XP?  edit:  It sure does!

Also:  I only have 1 video card and I see 2 radio buttons when I run the program.  Which one do I use?  One or the other or both?edit:  Got it working using the first radio button.  The 2nd button is for my DVI port, which I'm not using so I left it alone.  Each radio button is for each port on the card.  i.e: 1st one is for the D-Sub (vga) port, 2nd is for the DVI port, etc .

Last but not least:  I can't recall the name of this program, but it allowed the user to COMPLETELY uninstall all graphics drivers on your PC.  Anyone remember the name of it?  edit:  Still can't remember it, but I also found another handy program called Reforce which allows you to add or delete resolutions from the windows driver on the fly.

Thanks in advance!

DeLuSioNaL29
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Gray_Area on January 25, 2013, 08:58:40 pm
@Delusional29:

That's Refresh Force, I think.  Don't know about the uninstall program; wiping parts of the registry can do that. Heh.

There are two radio buttons because your card has two outputs.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: mitsurugi on February 03, 2013, 02:39:32 pm
Hello!! 
I'm using windows 7 x64 with a hd4850 and soft15.
Windows run in 15hz, but when i try emulators 3d games have slowdown.
I have tested mame (games like tekken tag and psx 3d games), model 3, model 2 and all have several slowdown and choppy sound.
Demul only runs ok.
In monitor computer everything runs ok.
What could it be?
Thank you very much.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: scotth1 on February 07, 2013, 10:09:54 pm
Is there a tutorial for using a dual video card setup to enable one card to be used for boot and a second card to only be enabled after being successfully switched to 15khz? I saw mention of doing something along those lines early in this thread (and in some other forum posts for that matter), but could not find details on how to pull it off. I am hoping to do this in win xp.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: mitsurugi on February 11, 2013, 10:08:31 am
I really don't know what causes the slowdowns but 3d games run very very slowly.
I must disable v-sync and tripple buffer, and games run good in that case, but have several problems wich games like taito typex, because the launcher don't have graphics options and i can't disable it. Example: kof mi runs very very slowly!!
Maybe somebody can tell us where are the problem.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: ckong on February 12, 2013, 12:15:33 pm
Allright, I am using soft15K (build51) since a few days (was used to work with ArcadeVGA) together with a Radeon HD4250 onboard GPU and it works great. But I have the feeling that I don't use it yet to the full extend and I am struggling to this long, long but very informative topic. But still I have a few questions:

1. What is the difference between usermodes.txt and f.i. custom15khz.txt?
2. what happens if I have them both in the map where soft15K is?
3. If I install 15K, while one or both of the txt files is in the same map, do the modleines in these txt files also get installed, or do I have to press 'Install User'?
4. If I install soft15k the I see a lot of modelines in the 'modeline editor for windows' program, and when I uninstall soft15K, the modelines are gone. So I guess that those modelines are installed by installing soft15K (duh). Are these the modelines from one or both of the txt files?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Gray_Area on February 14, 2013, 02:43:42 pm
Allright, I am using soft15K (build51) since a few days (was used to work with ArcadeVGA) together with a Radeon HD4250 onboard GPU and it works great. But I have the feeling that I don't use it yet to the full extend and I am struggling to this long, long but very informative topic. But still I have a few questions:

1. What is the difference between usermodes.txt and f.i. custom15khz.txt?
2. what happens if I have them both in the map where soft15K is?
3. If I install 15K, while one or both of the txt files is in the same map, do the modleines in these txt files also get installed, or do I have to press 'Install User'?
4. If I install soft15k the I see a lot of modelines in the 'modeline editor for windows' program, and when I uninstall soft15K, the modelines are gone. So I guess that those modelines are installed by installing soft15K (duh). Are these the modelines from one or both of the txt files?


No difference, so use either. If you want to know more about display modes, read the wiki.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: bryhud on February 23, 2013, 01:09:02 pm
Can anyone tell me the newest AMD cards that soft 15 supports?

I need to upgrade my PC and looking for suggestions on one of the newer cards to get to work with a WG 9500 monitor.

Thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: fogisgod on February 25, 2013, 03:25:28 pm
Rite l start from the beginning:

I have bought a old virtua striker arcade machine which I know the monitor is a medium res 25khz. I'm in the process of turning this into a mame cab.
With regards to my PC I have a ATI radeon 9550 graphics card that is supported with soft15khz programme. I have installed the recommended ATI Catalyst 6.5 programme. I have then installed soft15khz and only installed 25khz as that what my monitor is. I then changed the resolution settings to 600x480 as stated.
Then Using a VGA breakout cable I have connected all the right leads from my monitor to the cable. I.e R.G.B horizontal sync and vertical sync. Turn out the pc and absolutely nothing, just a blank screen. There as been on 1 occasion where I can slight see the desktop but was flickering
Badly. What am I doing wrong???
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: gonzalma on February 26, 2013, 01:46:33 am
Was the game and monitor working before you started the conversion?  If not, I am guessing that you have one or more bad capacitors.   Lots of threads and help here on buying a cap kit and replacing them.  It is a pretty straight forward process but still a big pain in the butt. 

If the monitor was working fine before, then the only other thing that comes in mind is the brightness adjustment on the a Flyback.  Here is a really nice video explaining the Flyback adjustments. 

http://transcriptvids.com/v/MUL5TiUYAss.html (http://transcriptvids.com/v/MUL5TiUYAss.html)

The Arcade Repair Tips site in general is a great resource to check out.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: veggav on February 27, 2013, 08:56:30 am
Good one.
Basically my GTX460 worked fine with the dongle last time I tried (using XP).

32 modes limit is true for the "old" format drivers (XP). Haven't tried on the "new" format drivers (Vista/Seven).

Which driver were you using Sailor?

Maybe I can replicate it here.

EDIT: do you think the code for the EDID dongle is available online?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Geomancer on March 06, 2013, 02:30:40 pm
Is there any way to get 15khz output using W7 x64? I have a HD 4870 and I tried with the 9.3 and 10.3 drivers but itsn't working.. I will be trying XP x64 but if I can get W7 to work it would be awesome.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: DeLuSioNal29 on March 12, 2013, 10:50:09 am
Is there any way to get 15khz output using W7 x64? I have a HD 4870 and I tried with the 9.3 and 10.3 drivers but itsn't working.. I will be trying XP x64 but if I can get W7 to work it would be awesome.
I've had success with older drivers on my HD4xxx series card but your mileage may vary.  Try ATI Catalyst 9.2.  You can grab it here (it says Vista64 but it should work).  http://www2.ati.com/drivers/9-2_vista64_dd_ccc_wdm_enu_75977.exe (http://www2.ati.com/drivers/9-2_vista64_dd_ccc_wdm_enu_75977.exe)

Also, the latest version of Soft-15kHz would not work for me.  I used version 0.1.0.48 with success.  (P.S. - PM me if you need this older version.  I could not find a link to it anywhere).

D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: DeLuSioNal29 on March 12, 2013, 10:57:32 am
Quick question:  Does anyone know where we can find previous versions of Soft-15kHz?  I couldn't find any archives anywhere.  (Aside from my hard drive of course).

Thanks!

D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: dandro on March 15, 2013, 08:48:31 am
fixed.


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: XT73 on March 21, 2013, 02:11:37 am
Hey SailorSat, just a question for you. Is there any kind of way this can be an option for xbox1 users? Since i think the card in the xbox is actually one of the supported ones for this, would be a lot easier for us to try to get low res on our xboxs as we are still working on ways to try to get it.

Hope to hear from you soon! :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Geomancer on April 05, 2013, 08:13:18 pm
I received the replacement Audio Authority 9A60A and it's working with a Sapphire HD4870, Windows 7 x64, Catalyst 13.1 (latest one) and the latest version of Soft15khz..

I have to adjust the resolutions because the images are splitting with every resolution, but at least the tv is getting signal so I can start working again in the cabinet.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Geomancer on April 07, 2013, 11:01:44 am
EDIT: I have fixed this by adjusting the potentiometer inside the Audio Authority 9A60A :D now it's working perfectly fine for all the default resolutions, and will be checking the forums on the following days for a way to adjust the tv geometry because I have just realized how bad it is..

I have been trying to set any of the modelines with my tv and I'm having a problem because I can't get none of them to show perfectly (1:1), I have attached two pictures so I can explain myself better because I don't know the correct words to explain the "aberrations" and "artifacts" my tv is showing.

I'm using Windows 7 x64, ATI HD4870, Catalyst 10.3 (it's the same with 13.1), and an Audio Authority 9A60A transcoder.

The first pic is using 320x240p, and the second one 640x480i. What is really strange is the 480i image is showing scanlines, something it didn't happened when using the s-video to component adapter. Probably is because it's not pixel perfect but is really strange.

I have installed Powerstrip, but I can't seem to get a perfect image by playing with the timings, I cannot find a tutorial with some steps to try and get a nice image.. I don't know if there is a problem with my lack of knowledge in configuring the timings, or is a drivers/operative system problem and I need to downgrade to XP/Catalyst 9.x to get more precise timings.

I am really trying to avoid reinstalling the OS, but if is necessary I will..
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: northerngames on May 10, 2013, 10:17:51 pm
anyone know what the suggested drives are for a ATI Radeon HD3650 512MB AGP card?

is it still 10.3 or should I use the omega driver I have used on all prior ati cards without issue?
 
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: tdarcade on August 23, 2013, 08:09:06 pm
Has anybody gotten Soft 15 to work with an ATI Radeon Xpress 1150? Sorry if this is redundant but I don't seem to have the right to search threads.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: starwarsfan54321 on August 30, 2013, 11:48:59 pm
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8114540&CatId=7709 (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8114540&CatId=7709)

Would this APU be able to use soft15khz in windows 7?

I really want to keep my CRT monitor and have a cab tat can play Naomi Games.

Also, the GPU is a Radeon HD 8670D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on September 01, 2013, 10:50:17 am
Radeon Xpress should work, HD8xxx most likely not
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: starwarsfan54321 on September 01, 2013, 09:44:36 pm
Radeon Xpress should work, HD8xxx most likely not

Thanks, what is the most powerful chipset supported?

I would like to make my new PC compatible with my arcade monitor.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Dalba on September 13, 2013, 07:34:33 am
Does it exist a dx11 graphic card compatible with soft15khz ? 
Demul is the best emulator for naomi and atomiswave games, but it needs a real dx11 card. I would like to be able to play those games alongside mame games in 240p in my arcade cabinet...
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Oscar80 on December 27, 2013, 10:08:18 am
Hello sorry for my English ... I have a ati Raedon hd 4870 with windows7 64. I tried removing the 15khz with 13.1 drivers with soft15 bulid51 and drivers 92 and soft15 build48. Since I have seen that people here have done well but I will not me. Now I not know to try. Any idea?
Could someone with a ati Raedon hd 4870?
Help please
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: c0dehunter on June 16, 2014, 12:25:05 pm
Does anyone know if RADEON HD5XXX series (in particular HD5440) would work? What is the latest list of compatible cards as of this writing? (06-14-2014)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: peterson65 on June 16, 2014, 11:24:50 pm
does this work in windows 7 x64? was thinking up updating my cabinet to win 7 64 from xp 32 have an evga mother board with NVidia chipset and this worked great for xp. don't even have a arcade vga and am using a wells garner d9800. if not what other options do I have to use the 9800 with win 7
thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on June 17, 2014, 04:14:46 am
HD5000 series most likely does NOT work.

Windows 7 basically works with ATI cards. It won't work with NVidia.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: kiwasabi on June 19, 2014, 08:51:30 am
SailorSat, is there any way you're aware of to tweak Android OS to output at 15khz like you can on Windows? I was looking at this blog post and it seems there's a way to convert VGA 31hz to 15khz RGB by using a converter card called GBS 8100. I'm just wondering if there's a software solution like there is on Windows.

http://arrifana.org/blog/2012/12/connection-a-raspberry-pi-to-an-old-15khz-arcade-monitor/ (http://arrifana.org/blog/2012/12/connection-a-raspberry-pi-to-an-old-15khz-arcade-monitor/)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: moogrum on June 24, 2014, 06:14:45 pm
Hello,  I am trying to use soft 15khz on what I think is a 25khz monitor with a JPac and a ATI Radeon HD2400 pro Sapphire video card, with the little bridge thingy on the JPAC moved onto the 25khz slot.  I've installed 25khz, and have a text file called custom25khz.txt in the same folder.  When I run it, I'm getting no new resolutions in my quickres options, only the standard ones.  I think it is not adding any modelines at all for some reason, and not even looking at the text file.  Any suggestions?

(http://i.imgur.com/g5QpGO1.jpg)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: haynor666 on July 27, 2014, 05:17:40 am
I had similiar problems. For the first time I didn't get all resolutions that I;ve made in usermodes.txt

You my try this:

Turn off PC. Disconnect VGA monitor and connect to arcade monitor but keep it switched off !!!.
Probably after 2 mins system will load. After that connect again to VGA monitor.
Try now available resolutions. If it's available then choose desired and switch again to arcademonitor
With this procedure I was able to use all my custom resolutions using standard 21 '' TV.

Of course use this procedure at your own risk !!!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: buttersoft on January 13, 2015, 06:46:19 am
http://files.arianchen.de/soft15khz/s15kedid.bin (http://files.arianchen.de/soft15khz/s15kedid.bin)

I've used PowerStrip to upload it to the dongle.

Hi Sailorsat. Sometime lurker, first time poster.

I'm looking to make myself a dongle to play with, but I have no idea how to get the code onto the 24LC22A chip. You said you used Powerstrip? Do you have any tips or links to check out? Any help you can give me will be greatly appreciated.

And just to check, are the following numbers still correct? (highlighting is mine, to make sure)

Quote
VGA Pins 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 13 and 14 are wired from the male to the female connector.
VGA Pins 5, 9, 11, 12 and 14 are wired to the 24LC22A.

VGA 14 (VSync) -> IC 7 (VCLK)
VGA 15 (SCL) -> IC 6 (SCL)
VGA 12 (SDA) -> IC 5 (SDA)
VGA 09 (+5V) -> IC 8 (Vcc)
VGA 05 (GND) -> IC 4 (Vss)

And mostly - Danke fur providing the awesome tool and for supporting the community for so long that makes this sort of fun possible!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on January 13, 2015, 07:25:32 am
Uh... Number should be fine, VSync is indeed connected to the IC and the VGA connector.
VSync is used for DDC1-style transfer of the EDID data (= backward compatible with older cards).

In PowerStrip (entech taiwan) there is a "Monitor" menu, where you can "check" your monitors capabilities.
There is a dropdown with various stuff, like writing a custom monitor driver etc.
In that dropdown is a "update EDID" option.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: buttersoft on January 15, 2015, 02:35:49 am
In that dropdown is a "update EDID" option.

I love building things, but i can't code very well myself  :dizzy:

Vielen Dank, Sailorsat! You must be the most helpful individual on the internet.

EDIT: I'll try editing this post first rather than making a new one... just a bunch of questions i'd like to float, really:

My EEPROMs are on the way! Looking forward to this one. Does anyone if a GTX580 is going to work with Soft15kHz? I can't see it listed on arcadeinfo.de, and using google translate to help my furchtbar Deutsch means i can't search properly :(  I also have an older 8800GT to use if needed.

Will soft15kHz work with Win 8.1? Is it likely to work with Win 10?

Is there are Quickres3 tool, and how about for later Win OS? The PVM i'm using would be my 3rd display, on the 2nd adapter. I guess i could just try to re-number the display order and use one of the existing Quickres tools, but i'm curious if there's more.

Finally, for interest's sake alone, would any I2C EEPROM over 2K have worked for the dongle?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ilya-v on February 13, 2015, 03:03:33 pm
Hi, I'm late to the party... still I hope SailorSat is still hovering from time to time.

I bought am EDID dongle to activate my Nvidia 8400M GS.
I have a technical question.

Does the dongle unclocks minimum timings allowed by EDID?
Does it unlock Interlaced modes?
OR, does it specify a list of allowable resolutions?

Hope this get answered someday...  :D
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: peterson65 on February 15, 2015, 06:18:27 pm
help! cant seem to get this to work. I have a evga motherboard with NVidia GeForce 7100 graphics built in, I had soft15khz working in the past but went to the arcade vga. I uninstalled the arcade vga and reinstalled the forceware drivers and then soft 15khz everything looks ok but when running mame and it wants to switch a resolution from what the desktop is running I get a blue screen about nv4_disp.dll error what am I doing wrong? its a windows xp 32 bit with a d9800 monitor.
thanks
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ilya-v on February 15, 2015, 11:48:05 pm
FWIW, I had continues blue screens in XP when I created custom resolution of 640x480 and tried to delete it from the list in Nvidia Control Panel.
Apparently XP don't like when you remove its 640x480 even if its custom...
As for blue screen when changing resolution, try playing with the primary and secondary configurations, maybe your 7100 has issues with multi monitor configuration.

Sidenote:
Now I'm on Desktop Windows 7 and Nvidia GTX660 (or 8400M GS on my laptop), somehow in contrary to everything being written here, I can create any custom resolution in Nvidia Control Panel even without Soft15Khz being installed.
Strangely my VGA to SCART cable sends an EDID info to the video card on both of my systems with Windows 7 named "PNP09FF Generic Non-PnP Monitor"
This is only with a cable which consists a Motorola 74HC86 chip to create CSync. With my simple cable made with three resistors it is not so.

EDIT:
I used pin-9 to get 5V from the video card so as soon as the VGA-SCART cable plugged in to the video card the IC is activated.
Talkin' 'bout killing two birds with one stone unintentionally...  :applaud:

Here is what I built:
(http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/scarte.png)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: peterson65 on February 16, 2015, 08:58:57 pm
help! cant seem to get this to work. I have a evga motherboard with NVidia GeForce 7100 graphics built in, I had soft15khz working in the past but went to the arcade vga. I uninstalled the arcade vga and reinstalled the forceware drivers and then soft 15khz everything looks ok but when running mame and it wants to switch a resolution from what the desktop is running I get a blue screen about nv4_disp.dll error what am I doing wrong? its a windows xp 32 bit with a d9800 monitor.
thanks

did some searching and found it was a driver issue, had to go back to a older driver and no more blue screen
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: buttersoft on February 17, 2015, 04:00:14 am
OR, does it specify a list of allowable resolutions?

And if so, are those resolutions the Soft15kHz defaults in the 15kHz and 25kHz ranges?

Also, anyone know if PowerStrip will work to update EDID for dongle-making in Win 8 with an 8800GT?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Ilya-v on February 17, 2015, 01:58:57 pm
Here is a reply I got:

Quote
The Dongle is a simple EEPROM that tells the graphics card some details about "the monitor".
It reports a ID of "PNP0815" (so one could override parts of the EDID in software), Analog Signal, H/V-Sync and C-Sync support, 28" Size.
It also reports support for 640x480@60p, 800x600@60p and 1024x768@60p.
There is one "Native Timing"-Descriptor for 640x480@60i, which causes most cards to auto select a 15kHz mode.
There also is a "Monitor Range Limit"-Descriptor, calling 15-35kHz H-Sync, 25-70Hz V-Sync and "up to 210Mhz" Pixel Clock.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 17, 2015, 06:59:39 am
For anyone interested, check out the source code at GitHub (https://github.com/SailorSat/soft-15khz).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: buttersoft on April 18, 2015, 09:36:00 pm
For anyone interested, check out the source code at GitHub (https://github.com/SailorSat/soft-15khz).

Thanks! Can i ask, how does Soft15Khz get around the dot clock restriction on the ATI ~700-3000 cards? Do NVidia cards have this restriction as well? And if so, does Soft15kHz double the horizontal resolution to cope?


Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 19, 2015, 04:44:28 am
It does not include any "workaround" for low pixel clock limitations.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: obizues on April 19, 2015, 04:44:54 pm
I am trying to get Soft-15KHz to work on my computer to arcade, but so far It hasn't worked. :banghead:

I've installed Soft-15KHz to my Windows 7 system, I have the most up to date drivers for my GeForce 6200, and I also set my resolution to 640x480 with QRes. 

I turned off my CPU, plugged in the vga to my JPAC, to my Jamma Harness, and I get video on my CRT.  The problem is that it's a screen and a half.

I don't get any lights lit up on my JPAC, so I assume it's not sending the 15KHz signal correctly.

Is this a known issue?  Any help would be lovely.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 20, 2015, 12:33:06 am
I am trying to get Soft-15KHz to work on my computer to arcade, but so far It hasn't worked. :banghead:

I've installed Soft-15KHz to my Windows 7 system, I have the most up to date drivers for my GeForce 6200, and I also set my resolution to 640x480 with QRes. 

When I developed the NVidia_NT6 implementation (Vista/Seven) in 2010, I used driver version 257.xx and a GeForce 7600... Most likely the driver structure has changed in the last 5 years .)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: obizues on April 21, 2015, 09:44:25 pm
What do you recommend I use them to have decent power without having to change my power supply but can still run games and hyperspin?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: crabfists on April 22, 2015, 05:30:19 pm
Hello,

I would like to buy a UMSA SCART adaptor so I can play SNES/MAME games on my Panasonic SCART CRT TV. I'm not sure if it will work with my Radeon R7 265? I am also unsure if I will need the soft15khz dongle? Hoping someone knows the answer to these questions.

I am running Windows 7.

Thanks in advance  :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 22, 2015, 08:28:21 pm
You don't need the dongle for sure. The dongle was made for NVidia cards at that time.
As for the newer radeons... May work, but I haven't testet anything beyound HD 5000 series (which did not work at the time).
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: crabfists on April 23, 2015, 09:34:26 am
@SailorSat Thank you for your reply. I guess I will find out if it works... :) I will report back.

If it doesn't work could I install another soft15khz graphics card alongside it and connect that to the UMSA?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on April 23, 2015, 09:40:56 am
As long as you can tell your SNES emulator what monitor to use, yes.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: crabfists on May 10, 2015, 05:42:12 pm
I can report the Radeon R7 265 did not appear to work with soft15khz. Whichever resolution I tried I could not get a picture on my CRT. I was not 100% sure how to know it was working though. I tried a few resolutions and the windows desktop would not display on the CRT. I also tried the 15khz ZSnes version.

My setup:
AMD Radeon R7 265
AMD Catalyst 14.4
Windows 7 64 bit

I wonder if I get an Nvidia PCI graphics card and run Windows XP in a VM it will work? Anybody got experience of this?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: crabfists on June 10, 2015, 04:19:17 pm
I got Soft15KHz working. Thank you Sailorsat for this great software! I am now enoying Earthbound on my CRT TV. :)

I set my screen resolution to 512x448 and I can see my Windows XP desktop fine all synced nicely. Then I fire up ZSnes and it looks great and fills the screen in windowed mode. I tried setting full screen at 512x448 but it displays in a frame that doesn't fill the screen.

I am confused about something though. Soft15KHz isn't supposed to work with all emulators but it has worked with everything I have tried. I started off using the 15khz enabled build of ZSnes but then I tried the normal ZSnes and that worked fine too. What is supposed to happen if an emulator doesn't work?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Antropus on June 20, 2015, 11:57:59 pm
Problem solved!!! :D

I can surely confirm that this works:
AMD R9 290x
Catalyst 14.4
Windows 7 64

This is what I did and I hope this helps someone with the same problems/system specs:

1) I uninstalled all AMD drivers and shutdown my machine
2) I replaced the new card with the old HD4890 that I had working before and powered up the system.
3) I installed the Catalyst 13.9 legacy driver and reboot.
4) I installed Soft-15KHZ's all resolutions in all available cards, just to Uninstall everything right after that.
5) I uninstalled all AMD drivers again and shutdown.
6) I replaced the old card with the R9 290x and powered the system.
7) I installed Catalyst 14.4 (newer drivers might be the cuplrit for ir not to work before, not sure. This one works though)
8) Reboot
9) I ran Soft-15KHZ and I got 5 popups, one after the other saying "For pre-X1000 series Radeon cards Catalyst 6.5 is recommended.", which makes no sense in this case, since this card wasn't supported by that driver, so I just kept clicking ok.
10) Soft-15KHZ's interface shows up! The catch is that instead of listing the correct card's name, it shows a list of 5 available cards, all listed as "Standard VGA Graphics ..."
11) I added all resolutions to all of the 5 listed cards and reboot.
12) Back to windows I ran Quickres and BOOM! All resolutions are now listed!!! :D

I' m pretty sure some of those steps are probably not even necessary, but if nothing works for you, give it a go.

Cheers!
-Kris
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: S_Akuma on August 06, 2015, 10:57:35 pm
moved on to WIN7-64bit, Groovymame and switchers with an ATI 4890 and super res… very cool :notworthy:


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hellooo long time no use soft15khz… I did not even know that win7 was supported:). I had all types of issues with Win7 many moons ago (over 12 years) so I was using XP.  Setting up two new system for my Sony PVMs and the other for a WD9800 and NEC plus..

System one.
OS - WIN7 64bit
Sof15khz - 52
video card - ATI 4670
catalyst - 12-1_xp64_dd_ccc.esxi

once you intall the catalyst drivers make sure that you run soft15khz as Administrator.  If you did not do that and install the 15hkz resolution and reboot the system nothing will happen.. You will not see the 15khz and bellow resolutions.. only the higher resolutions.. so RUN SOFT15khz AS ADMINISTRATOR and once you reboot you will see the 15hkz resolution if you only installed the 15khz and not the others 24 and 31.  Please forgive me if anyone else pointed this out, I have not read the entire tread:)  Next step is to setup MAME:)

SailorSat --- thank you for all the hardwork and keeping soft15khz up to date… :notworthy:
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: arcadeswede on October 16, 2015, 07:22:47 am
The link to download the Soft 15Khz software doesn't seem to work  :(
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: SailorSat on October 16, 2015, 07:31:45 am
Hm... looks like the community subdomain is broken right now... I've updated the link on the first post.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: arcadeswede on October 16, 2015, 08:02:10 am
Great! Thanks

Now the download link won't work   :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Joselv81 on November 10, 2015, 06:13:30 pm
Hey guys how is everyone doing? Quick question I have a ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT running Windows XP I can install XP if need be but cannot get soft15khz to sick. It installs fine but then when I  plug in my arcade monitor which is a WG-K7000 by the way and reboot pc it is not working I also installed crt emudriver and it does install but once I try and get the settings to stick nothing. I crt emudriver it does turn on but when I switch resolutions says no supported. Any help would be appreciated thanks.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: parski on May 22, 2016, 01:09:39 pm
Has anybody gotten this working with GTX 970? I'm looking at the EDID dongle but I can't figure out if my GPU even supports this. I want to use it under Windows 7 but I think my GPU is too new. Please advice.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Meph on July 02, 2016, 10:35:24 am
I am running an i5-2500k with an EVGA 260gtx in it.  I just picked up a Jpac yesterday and want to throw some additional fighters in my SF2 Big Blue cabinet.  Will I be able to us Soft 15Khz properly with the 260GTX or should I be looking for an ATI card?  Also is WinXP or Win7 preferred these days?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: andy_blanc on June 30, 2017, 05:55:44 am
I'm trying to run a GTX 1060 /W10 with the 2nd display connected to a B&O MX4000 using the UMSA. Does anyone know if that is even possible? The Nvidia Control Panel gives me complete control of custom timings but the closest I can get it is a split screen on 540*480i.

Any help would appreciated.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: buttersoft on July 18, 2017, 08:26:43 pm
I'm trying to run a GTX 1060 /W10 with the 2nd display connected to a B&O MX4000 using the UMSA. Does anyone know if that is even possible? The Nvidia Control Panel gives me complete control of custom timings but the closest I can get it is a split screen on 540*480i. 
Split screen as in side-by-side identical images? That means you're getting 480p out of the GPU, not 480i. AFAIK there's no way to get 480i or other 15kHz modes out of an Nvidia GPU anywhere near as new as yours while using Windows. You can type what you want into the NVCP, but the driver won't deliver lower than 31kHz/480p. Linux might be another story. Sorry!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: r1ggles on February 23, 2019, 06:28:25 pm
Seeing that the ATI Radeon HD 2600 Pro is supported, is there any possibility of hooking up an iMac (2007) with a VGA output adapter to SCART? From Sweden so our CRT's support RGB scart.

Pretty unfamiliar with this topic still as I just acquired this computer, but figured I'd throw a quick question here before I delve too deeply into how to get analog signals from certain video cards.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: buttersoft on May 09, 2019, 02:07:04 am
Late reply, but these day's you're much better off with crt_emudriver and a compatible card. A good place to start is the GroovyMAME subforum on here, which is also the crt_emudriver home, just about.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on March 02, 2020, 09:09:01 am
 :blank: Summary: Anyone using an ATI/AMD HD 5450 or HD 5000 series GPU with Soft15khz?. No luck googling for all but one guy saying he has it "working".

Soft15khz has been serving me well paired with an ATI X700 + WG D9400 for so many years.  Can't thank SailorSat enough like the rest of us here.

However, MAME development has up'd the GPU's minimum Shader Model to at least 3.0 if you're to use DirectDraw/Direct3D.  Unless you set video to GDI and fix your resolution (bleh), you need to have at least a Radeon HD X1000 series GPU from 2005 or later.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon_X700_series#Radeon_Feature_Matrix

My second solution to this was to "simply" use an ArcadeVGA 3000 which supports Shader Model 4.0.  After many hours however, I've not been successful in having my Wells Gardner D9400 switch resolution/refresh properly.  Here's my thread to troubleshoot that.  Also attached that thread's photo.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,162154.0.html

Which brings me back to my first and original solution which was to buy an ATI card of this vintage/era.  I found that VisonTek still sells new Radeon HD 5450 cards plus they're cheap.  Unfortunately, either or both Soft15khz doesn't support this card outright or I don't have the correct model line entries to get this working.  Once I run the tool whether I "install" just the 15khz, 31khz or "User" (don't know what this means) and reboot, resolutions are all wonky and I have to reset settings by reinstalling the last set of drivers from AMD/ATI:
https://www.amd.com/en/support/graphics/amd-radeon-hd/ati-radeon-hd-5000-series/ati-radeon-hd-5450

So my PC has an old mobo with an OC'd core2duo CPU with a PCIe 1.0 x16 slot.  Short of looking for one of the reportedly compatible cards below (or getting the ArcadeVGA 3000 to work), does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can get the HD 5450 to work with Soft15khz?

Thanks for reading this wall of text.  Hopefully someone else will find this post from google days/weeks/months/years later and have a solution other than just getting a new PC setup.   :cry: :blah: :hissy: :dizzy: 

2012 list of compatible video cards dskinchen compiled.  Is there a more complete or authoritative list?
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=119740.0

ATI Radeon Mobile X200
ATI Radeon XPress 200 - "Gigabyte GA-8TRC410MNF-RH
Gigabyte Radeon X300
ATI Radeon X600 PCI-E (ASUS)
ATI Radeon X800 PCI-E (HIS)
ATI Radeon XPress 1250 - "ASUS M2A-VM|HDMI
ATI Radeon XPress 1250 - ASRock 4Core1333-FullHD
ATI Radeon X1650Pro PCI-E (Sapphire)
ATI Radeon X1650Pro AGP
ATI Radeon HD2400Pro PCI-E (Sapphire)
HIS Radeon 2900GT PCI-E
Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H (AMD 780G / Radeon HD 3200)
ATI Radeon HD3450 PCI-E ATI Radeon HD3850
AGP ATI Radeon HD4350 PCI-E (ASUS)
ATI Radeon HD4350 PCI-E (ASUS)
ATI Radeon HD 4350 works with edid dongle
ATI Radeon HD4650 (Gigabyte HD4650 OC PCI-E - GV-R465OC-1GI)
ATI Radeon HD4670 PCI-E (GIGABYTE model GV-R467ZL-1GI)
Msi radeon 4850 hd 512 mb, gddr3
ATI Radeon HD4870 x2
ATI Radeon HD4850 PCI-E (Sapphire)
ATI Radeon 7000 AGP
ATI Radeon 7500 AGP
ATI Radeon 9200SE AGP - "MSI RX9200SE-T128
ATI Radeon 9200SE PCI - "Sapphire RADEON 9200SE Atlantis"
ATI Radeon 9250 AGP
ATI Radeon 9500 PRO AGP
Palit Radeon 9550
ATI Radeon 9600
ATI Radeon 9600 All-in-Wonder AGP
ATI Radeon 9600Pro AGP
ATI Radeon Mobility 9600 (HP nc6000)
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro AGP

NVidia GeForce FX5200 AGP
NVidia 6100 onboard - Abit NF-M2SV
NVidia GeForce 6150
NVidia GeForce 6600GT AGP
NVidia GeForce 7100 OnBoard
NVidia GeForce 7300GS PCI-E (Gainward Bliss 7300GS)
NVidia GeForce 7300GS PCI-E
NVidia GeForce 7600GS AGP
NVidia GeForce 7600GT AGP
Nvidia GeForce 7950GX2 PCI-E (Leadtek)
Nvidia Geforce 8400 GS
NVidia GeForce 8400GS PCI-E works with edid dongle
Nvidia GeForce 8800GXT PCI-E (Leadtek) works with edid dongle
NVidia GeForce 9500GS PCI-E works with edid dongle
NVidia GeForce 9600GSO PCI-E 768MB DDR2 (EVGA) works with edid dongle
NVidia GeForce2 GTS AGP NVidia GeForce2 Pro AGP
NVidia GeForce4 MX 420 PCI
NVidia Riva TNT2 M64 AGP
NVidia Riva TNT2 AGP
NVidia Quadro4 NVS AGP

Matrox Millenium PCI
Matrox G100 AGP
Matrox Millenium PCI
Matrox P650 AGP
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on March 02, 2020, 03:12:28 pm
Just and update in case this post is found by someone else googling months/years from now, I was able to resolve the ArcadeVGA 3000 and my Wells Gardner D9400 on Windows XP x64.  I'll leave the X700 in a box in case I come across another old computer that can be used with Soft15khz.

I'm still interested in getting an ATI HD 5450 working with Soft15khz since even in 2020 they are plenty available new at stores as the bargain GPU.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on March 30, 2020, 02:46:53 pm
You could use the X700 with that or another XP64 PC and CRT_emudriver because the old driver (1.2) supports that card in XP (not in Win7+).

Soft15khz was great for it's time and I used it lots myself, Sailorsat deserves much kudos, but it is only for very old cards now and CRT_emudriver is frankly much better. While I can imagine using it on a retro machine to emulate stuff even more retro, I can't imagine going back now for any current or future arcade builds.

Don't forget that you can use CRT_emudriver with AVGA cards!

I have a bunch of old AGP video cards from that era that would be great for Soft15khz, including a couple of AVGAs, but no AGP motherboards to build PCs that might use them.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on March 30, 2020, 05:03:58 pm
You could use the X700 with that or another XP64 PC and CRT_emudriver because the old driver (1.2) supports that card in XP (not in Win7+).

I ended up finding a great deal on a couple of 4th gen i5 computers with W10x64 in the cab w/ the Wells Gardner and leaving the X700 in the Core2Duo PC on XP64 but moving it to the home office to TV CRT via s-video.  It's not as nice but much better than an LCD.  The TV is shared with some Pi's and NES/SNES/PSX "Classics".

Soft15khz was great for it's time and I used it lots myself, Sailorsat deserves much kudos, but it is only for very old cards now and CRT_emudriver is frankly much better. While I can imagine using it on a retro machine to emulate stuff even more retro, I can't imagine going back now for any current or future arcade builds.

She certainly does!  Embarrassingly, I don't donate enough to freeware/shareware but I definitely donated to her back in the day.  Worth every penny and more.

I keep seeing CRT_Emu Driver around.  I'll have to look it up as a solution should I want a beefier GPU than the AVGA3000 I got and the AVGA5000 available. 

Don't forget that you can use CRT_emudriver with AVGA cards!

That's good to know!  What are the advantage of using either CRT_emudriver or soft15khz with an AVGA card though since you already have tons of the lower resolutions and 15hz modes?

I have a bunch of old AGP video cards from that era that would be great for Soft15khz, including a couple of AVGAs, but no AGP motherboards to build PCs that might use them.

Even if you found AVGA mobo's laying around, you'll be relegated to old versions of MAME since sometime over the last several years (2016 or 2017?) the MAME project has made shader model 3.0 a minimum requirement unless you use "-video gdi".  :(  This was my primary motivation in ditching the ATI X700 bc it only supported up to shader model 2.0 whereas the AVGA3000 and up are good for several versions up.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on April 01, 2020, 11:29:04 pm
Just one thing soft15khz still has going for it: the setup is very easy and almost no learning curve. CRT_emudriver is arguably easy to setup as well, but you have to know what you are doing to get the best out of it.

That's good to know!  What are the advantage of using either CRT_emudriver or soft15khz with an AVGA card though since you already have tons of the lower resolutions and 15hz modes?

There are many advantages, but two big ones. First, CRT_emudriver lets you define (& tweak!) any mode you want, not just accept what AVGA gives you. 2nd, even if you don't install any new video modes, CRT_emudriver also lets you take advantage of Groovymame and all of it's refresh-rate-matching-goodness. Games really do play much better and closer to original with Groovymame.

After you install CRT_emudriver, the AVGA still provides a unique advantage in that your bootup etc screens will be output at 15khz always, so you'll never have to worry about what to do while waiting for CRT_emudriver to kick in. Also, if you have some glitch happen where CRT_emudriver gets kicked out, or you have to boot into safe mode or whatever, your AVGA will let you still do things without having to go to the shed and drag an old VGA monitor out to retore your settings.

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[Quote from: Zebidee on 31 March 2020, 06:46:53]
    I have a bunch of old AGP video cards from that era that would be great for Soft15khz, including a couple of AVGAs, but no AGP motherboards to build PCs that might use them.

Even if you found AVGA mobo's laying around, you'll be relegated to old versions of MAME since sometime over the last several years (2016 or 2017?) the MAME project has made shader model 3.0 a minimum requirement unless you use "-video gdi".  :(  This was my primary motivation in ditching the ATI X700 bc it only supported up to shader model 2.0 whereas the AVGA3000 and up are good for several versions up.

Yeah - that happened around Mame 0.182 I think.

FYI, I'm running 2 XP64 machines (core2duo, HP SFF ex-desktops) with X1050 SFF cards in them with CRT_emudriver/Groovymame. I set them up in late 2018 with a hacked Groovymame 0.200 build (I edited the source code to remove the d3d pixel shading check so that it would run). I've had zero problems with it, but not sure that the same thing would work with latest Mame (actually, pretty sure that it won't). They are both dual boot XP64/Win7 to make things easier if I ever get around to upgrading.

I'm doing another build on XP64 right now with an HD4650 card, which doesn't have the pixel shading problem, but am getting another problem with the latest x64 mame (well, 0.219 anyway) which looks like an underlying video card/XP/dll problem (the HD4XXX are considered legacy now). So I'll be using Groovymame 0.200 with that too. I've done this PC as a dual-boot to Windows 7 too, to make my inevitable upgrade path easier. In fact, this card works with 0.219 under Win7 so I'll probably migrate there once I've learned a bit more about how to make Attract Mode work the way I want as a front-end (or maybe I'll just hack MameWAH to work better on Win7).

I always make my posts too long, but I think the key message here is that unless you want to be stuck in the past, tinkering constantly to make things work, you have to move to Windows 7+ and newer video cards eventually.

Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: buttersoft on April 02, 2020, 10:37:48 pm
Err, the AVGA cards are based on Radeon 3000 or 5000 series models depending, but i thought their using a different bios meant crt_emudriver didn't recognise them and so wouldn't install? Has this changed back again? Never versions of GroovyMAME require newer versions of crt_emudriver to run, as well.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on April 03, 2020, 01:19:20 pm
Err, the AVGA cards are based on Radeon 3000 or 5000 series models depending, but i thought their using a different bios meant crt_emudriver didn't recognise them and so wouldn't install? Has this changed back again?

I've never done it myself, but I definitely recall reading from multiple different authoritative places that is is possible to install CRT_emudriver on AVGA cards, just like any other AMD card. After all, people re-flash their graphics card BIOS's all the time. I've be interested to know otherwise, guess I should dig around a bit to backup my claim.

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Never versions of GroovyMAME require newer versions of crt_emudriver to run, as well.

That's also news to me Buttersoft, and I think not strictly true. I've not had any problems running newer versions of Mame with the old 1.2 driver on XP64 per se.

The problem isn't CRT_emudriver, but the newest versions of Mame (eg 0.219) won't run properly (or at all) on older video cards - and won't run with older versions of DirectX available on XP (ie up to v9). The problem isn't with Groovymame either - I get identical issues with both Groovy and vanilla Mame on XP64 with an HD4650 card - and no problems with same PC/card under Win7. The error messages I'm getting indicate a DirectX/dll issue rather than a CRT_emudriver issue - and it definitely isn't a Groovymame issue.

DirectX has been updated for Win7+, and latest Mame needs that to run. So Win 7 with AVGA5000 or AMD HD5000 series + should be all good?

Clearly I'm going to have to give up on XP for future builds, but that is OK because I've nearly run out of old crap computers and video cards.

Anyway, you know me, I always respect your ideas & keen to be corrected if you have any good sources or direct experience regarding the AVGA cards. Calamity would know, but he won't monitor this board and I don't want to bother him unnecessarily.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on April 03, 2020, 01:36:22 pm
Just one thing soft15khz still has going for it: the setup is very easy and almost no learning curve. CRT_emudriver is arguably easy to setup as well, but you have to know what you are doing to get the best out of it.

That's good to know in the future.  Hopefully CRT_emudriver will still be around in a few years when I decide to upgrade the cab's PC again for performance or other reasons.  I only have one cab and it's the main machine (4th Gen i5 on Win10x64) with a D9400 dedicated to only arcade games.  The previous PC (C2D on XPx64) is now in my home office attached to a regular TV via the ATI X700's s-video out.  No where near as nice as the multi-sync but still preferable to an LCD or older CRT monitor.

There are many advantages, but two big ones. First, CRT_emudriver lets you define (& tweak!) any mode you want, not just accept what AVGA gives you.

What modes do people typically add other than a few resolutions no already covered?  Curious to learn what I may be missing.

2nd, even if you don't install any new video modes, CRT_emudriver also lets you take advantage of Groovymame and all of it's refresh-rate-matching-goodness. Games really do play much better and closer to original with Groovymame.

Sorry I haven't googled first but at a high level, what are the main advantages of Groovymame if you can specify per game resolutions in MAME already?  Typically how far behind in releases is it to the main release?

I'm doing another build on XP64 right now with an HD4650 card, which doesn't have the pixel shading problem, but am getting another problem with the latest x64 mame (well, 0.219 anyway) which looks like an underlying video card/XP/dll problem (the HD4XXX are considered legacy now). So I'll be using Groovymame 0.200 with that too.
...
I always make my posts too long, but I think the key message here is that unless you want to be stuck in the past, tinkering constantly to make things work, you have to move to Windows 7+ and newer video cards eventually.

I can appreciate the desire to keep the OS the same because so many changes have been made since the initial install that replacing or updating other things may be less of a hassle.  But why use XP on new builds?  Win10 doesn't seem too heavy and still runs MAME fine with just 2-4gb of RAM which I imagine many older XP systems had during that era.  As a bonus, Win10 can be ran "free" / without registration while still getting security updates.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on April 03, 2020, 01:39:03 pm
Buttersoft, a little desktop research seems to confirm that the AVGA cards won't take anything other than very old versions of CRT_emudriver. I just read this thread (which you participated in):

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=151781.0

Seems that haynor666 had the same misconception that I had - heard some old stories, but those methods are no longer available (except maybe under Linux). The CRT_emudriver documentation even lists AVGA 9250 cards as suitable (for the old 1.2 driver anyway)!
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on April 03, 2020, 02:04:19 pm
There are many advantages, but two big ones. First, CRT_emudriver lets you define (& tweak!) any mode you want, not just accept what AVGA gives you.

What modes do people typically add other than a few resolutions no already covered?  Curious to learn what I may be missing.

Seems I was wrong about the AVGA taking crtemudriver. You used to be able to do it. As to what resolutions people want to add... whatever they need. The idea is that the driver takes away such arbitrary limitations on what video modes you can have.

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2nd, even if you don't install any new video modes, CRT_emudriver also lets you take advantage of Groovymame and all of it's refresh-rate-matching-goodness. Games really do play much better and closer to original with Groovymame.

Sorry I haven't googled first but at a high level, what are the main advantages of Groovymame if you can specify per game resolutions in MAME already?  Typically how far behind in releases is it to the main release?

I have actually already answered the first question right there - it matches your video mode's screen refresh rate to that of the actual game. It really makes a huge difference to how your emulated games play & feel, but it might be difficult for you to understand until you actually see it in action. As for the second question - Calamity pumps out Groovymame releases pretty regularly and with little delay, although obviously he has a real life too.


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I can appreciate the desire to keep the OS the same because so many changes have been made since the initial install that replacing or updating other things may be less of a hassle.  But why use XP on new builds?  Win10 doesn't seem too heavy and still runs MAME fine with just 2-4gb of RAM which I imagine many older XP systems had during that era.  As a bonus, Win10 can be ran "free" / without registration while still getting security updates.


Not complicated, I used XP64 in those builds because I was using old video cards with old computers. It was appropriate and about compatibility. They do everything I need them to do. Security updates aren't important when the PC lives offline in an arcade cab, and why have the overheads of Win10 when they aren't needed? When I have newer video cards with newer computers, then I'll install Win7 or Win10 or whatever as appropriate.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on April 03, 2020, 02:53:47 pm
It really makes a huge difference to how your emulated games play & feel, but it might be difficult for you to understand until you actually see it in action.

Other than adjusting a game to the same refresh/resolution, how does groovymame make other differences in how a game play or feel?  Are there YT videos I can look at to show this difference?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on April 03, 2020, 06:00:36 pm
I some ways that would largely defeat the purpose, as both your monitor and the video format will impose their own refresh rates, or frame rates (fps) over the top of whatever the game was played at originally. But yeah, do a search on YT I guess there must be plenty of vids about how to set it up.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: iscariot on March 19, 2022, 07:46:45 am
I've come into possession of an arcade cabinet kit with a large VGA CRT.  The computer that drive it was ancient so I replaced it with a Windows 10 machine.  The problem is that the monitor will display for a few seconds before cutting off, as Windows 10 won't save the resolution settings for it.  Is can I use this or something else to switch the resolution back to my settings that with with the monitor?  Iirc there's something that can do it.  Windows just doesn't seem to want to keep the settings I put in.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on March 19, 2022, 10:37:06 am
What resolution are you trying to save too?  what kind of display are you using?
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: iscariot on March 19, 2022, 01:35:11 pm
Not sure.  It just has a vha connector and a jamma connector for video
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on March 19, 2022, 11:53:10 pm
This old thread isn't the place to sort out your issues, unless they specifically relate to Soft15khz - which is essentially "obsolete". You said you have a VGA monitor? If so you don't need 15khz anyway.

Suggest you make a new thread and provide more info like exactly what your monitor is, what adapters are being used, what GPU and desktop resolution you are using and what software (like video drivers and version of MAME etc). Also good to put up some pics.
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: retrometro on May 01, 2022, 04:58:53 pm
This old thread isn't the place to sort out your issues, unless they specifically relate to Soft15khz - which is essentially "obsolete".

I've realized that in 2022 that I love my soft15khz running on my Windows XP x64 core2duo PC as a retro thing as much as the games runs in an old version of MAME.  :)
Title: Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
Post by: Zebidee on May 01, 2022, 10:00:31 pm
I've realized that in 2022 that I love my soft15khz running on my Windows XP x64 core2duo PC as a retro thing as much as the games runs in an old version of MAME.  :)

I have a few arcade PCs with those exact same specs, but I use them with CRTEMU now (the older 1.2b version for XP)  ;D

I always loved that soft15khz is so easy to setup, just a couple of clicks and then you essentially get the functionality of an ArcadeVGA card. However, CRTEMU and Groovymame take it to the next level with the super resolutions, automatic scaling and mode-switching, framerate matching stuff. Frame "tearing" and stretched pixels begone! Is easy to create your own custom modes too. A bit more complicated to setup, but worth it.

CRTEMU builds upon the work of others before it, including projects like advancemame and soft15khz. Awesome stuff.