The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls

Arcade Collecting => Restorations & repair => Topic started by: Level42 on June 23, 2007, 08:37:56 am

Title: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on June 23, 2007, 08:37:56 am
EDIT:

The "to do" list: (Last update: aug 11, 2010)

- correct convergence on the CRT
- remove everything, clean everything inside
- replace rubber matting (already here)
- get ALL the black metal parts (and I mean ALL) from the cab and have them sandblasted and powder coated
- rebuild the yoke !
- install fan for the HV pcb and deflection PCB
- make a new backdoor (HI made one for me, still have to vinyl it and put a lock on it....)
- find new bolts for about everything
- replace the speakers with some good quality one's (half way there, still need a second set of JBL GTO937's just as cheap as the others were !)
- redo all (well as much as possilbe) vinyl
- replace the seat covering (formica) decided against it, I'll leave it as is.
- reinstall the coin box, coin door
- restore the game counter/test button panel
_________________________________________

Finally had some time today to go have a look at the Star Wars Cockpit I have been tailing for a while.

I wanted to have a look at it before I started to arrange things. I will have to store it some place for a while (until my GameRoom is finished), and will need to arrange transport. So before doing all that for a piece of junk, I wanted to know what we were talking about.

Drove up to the place where it is stored. The cab was covered under plastic. The previous owner had it standing there for 8 years !!! but doesn't have time to fix it because of his too busy job.

Anyway, we removed the cover and I examined the machine. I think she's a beauty !!!! Some minor marks here and there on the side art, but otherwise very nice condition. I couldn't see the left side though, because it's close to a wall. The backdoor is missing (at least it wasn't there in it's place). The monitor is a 19", but you don't hear me complaining.

Check out the pics:

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit....almost mine....
Post by: Level42 on June 23, 2007, 08:38:54 am
More pics:

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit....almost mine....
Post by: Level42 on June 23, 2007, 08:42:05 am
and the last one...

The CRT is intact and looks quite good, just like the PCB's.



Now.....I need some space to store this beauty.....that will be the hardest part. Transport can be arranged without much trouble...
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit....almost mine....
Post by: CheffoJeffo on June 23, 2007, 09:33:56 am
Now.....I need some space to store this beauty.....that will be the hardest part. Transport can be arranged without much trouble...

The children's bedroom ?  ;D

Lots of room to curl up in that cab!

Cheers & Good Luck
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit....almost mine....
Post by: RobinHolland on June 23, 2007, 10:05:36 am
WOW Cool ;D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit....almost mine....
Post by: Level42 on June 23, 2007, 10:07:03 am
Now.....I need some space to store this beauty.....that will be the hardest part. Transport can be arranged without much trouble...

The children's bedroom ?  ;D

Lots of room to curl up in that cab!

Cheers & Good Luck
Haha , funny you mention that, that was actually what my son said when my wife asked where I should leave it  :laugh:
Won't fit through the stairs though... ::)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit....almost mine....
Post by: shardian on June 23, 2007, 10:12:07 am
Mind sharing the priceage. I gauge my jealousy based on price. ;) ;D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit....almost mine....
Post by: Level42 on June 23, 2007, 10:14:19 am
WOW Cool ;D
Incredible to find a holy grail like that so nearby :D

Was just thinking of something, you don't happen to have some spare space for it for a while do you Robin ?  :D :D ;) 8) :P

We gotta meet up soon anyway, got much more free time now. "I will show my Galaxian if you show me yours" WHAHAHAHA :D Maybe next Friday ?

By the way, can anybody tell if that "marquee" is the US or Irish version ? I forgot to check if it is Irish (which is most likely of course) or US built.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit....almost mine....
Post by: Level42 on June 23, 2007, 10:14:46 am
Mind sharing the priceage. I gauge my jealousy based on price. ;) ;D
Not just yet :D What do you think is a fair price. As mentioned, the monitor is out of order and the seller claims it played blind the last time he fired it up (but that could be 8 years ago)....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit....almost mine....
Post by: Level42 on June 23, 2007, 10:17:44 am
Hey I forgot a pic:


And another !!!

And yet another !! :D

About that last pic, there seems to be a metal plate with two pot meters in series more or less loose on the bottom of the cab...is that the volume control or is it part of the yoke assembly ?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit....almost mine....
Post by: ChadTower on June 23, 2007, 05:33:30 pm

Even nonworking that could easily go for a grand.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit....almost mine....
Post by: Level42 on June 24, 2007, 03:25:01 pm
I checked out some info (amazing what's available for SW !) on the net and then looked closely at the pictures I took and it turns out this cab has the infamous red-dead flyback. This is very likely defective. Luckely arcadeshop.com sells a replacement, but it's a hefty 99 bucks :S.....gotta add that to the price, and that's probably not the end :S
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit....almost mine....
Post by: ArcadeMaze on June 24, 2007, 03:53:37 pm
X
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit....almost mine....
Post by: Level42 on June 24, 2007, 04:48:53 pm
Indeed, that's true. And the Cinelabs is a drop-in replacement, much easier to install compared to the Wintron.....

I'm glad that it's available at all !!! This might be the difference in having to Mame this (yugh !) or restore it...
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit....almost mine....
Post by: Luigi on June 25, 2007, 03:59:56 am
Heck, what a great find :)

If you can't manage to store this beauty....let me know....I'll pick it up :D

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit....almost mine....
Post by: ChadTower on June 25, 2007, 09:03:19 am
I'm glad that it's available at all !!! This might be the difference in having to Mame this (yugh !) or restore it...

$100 shouldn't matter at all in the grand scheme of this cab.  This is the type you just wait until you have the money for the part, no matter how long it takes.  This is a never mame it cab.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit....almost mine....
Post by: Darth Nuno on June 28, 2007, 05:45:01 am
Hey, nice found... and close to your place ?

Don't hesitate for such cab  8) ...buy... and think after  :angel:

Congrats  :cheers:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit....almost mine....
Post by: RobinHolland on June 29, 2007, 02:03:04 pm
Irish  ;D

Look on this site  http://www.andys-arcade.net/personal/unusual/index.htm
Sorry i have no room for this :-\
If i had more room space i buy more cabinets   :laugh2:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit....almost mine....
Post by: SavannahLion on June 29, 2007, 03:29:07 pm
Since storage is a problem for you, I have the perfect place to store it.  ;D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit....[s]almost[/s] mine....
Post by: Level42 on July 01, 2007, 07:37:47 am
You pay for air shipping to the US and back to Europe ? ;)

We agreed on the price and the deal is made.

I'll make a nice "road trip" photo series in Darth Nuno's style when I will pick it up !


I'm going to have to order this:  http://www.cinelabs.com/amp/

In the manual for this replacement flyback there's a link to a fantastic document explaining how to repair the Amplifone monitor: http://ionpool.net/arcade/tech/ampfaq_12.pdf

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit....[s]almost[/s] mine....
Post by: SavannahLion on July 01, 2007, 02:03:10 pm
You pay for air shipping to the US and back to Europe ? ;)

50/50. You pay for shipping here and I'll pay for shipping back.  :P
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: patrickl on July 01, 2007, 02:24:18 pm
Wow, congratulations with your purchase of another cab. Trying to start a new arcade in the Netherlands eh?  :cheers:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 01, 2007, 02:48:59 pm
Yep :D

In my garden hopefully....

Problem is I have the cabs, but the Gameroom that I want to build in the garden is still only in the planning stage...

Fancy coming around next wednesday or thursday night ? Or the week after ? Robin, how about you ?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: patrickl on July 01, 2007, 04:29:29 pm
Unfortunately I'm busy for the coming 2 to 3 weeks (work and people coming over)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: amadama on July 01, 2007, 11:34:55 pm
Level42,
Congratulations on buying this cab! I am very happy for you. Can't wait to see the roadtrip pics!
Alex
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 02, 2007, 01:27:17 am
Oh forgot, to answer Shardian's question.....I bought this for €450,-.
Which is about $600,- at the current rate...


Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: arcadefever on July 02, 2007, 03:11:03 am
 :o

a great buy   :cheers:

for the restauration: <<may the force be with you>>   (http://planetsmilies.net/star-wars-smiley-5472.gif)

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: HoopstarsGarage on July 02, 2007, 03:18:51 am
awesome buy indeed..

I look forward to the restoration on this one :)


Hoops
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: danny_galaga on July 02, 2007, 05:02:16 am


                                                          :woot
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: ChadTower on July 02, 2007, 09:22:22 am

Dude, $600 is a serious steal, even if he has to put another $600 just to make it passable.  It's not like this is an item you can browse around for the best price.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 02, 2007, 11:48:18 am
Thanks guys, yes I feel as lucky as you can imagine !!

But I'm still nervous until it will be in my storage....

Indeed I was SO lucky to actually find this !

As you guys probably know, classic cabs are much more rare here than in the US. I've been already very lucky to find the Galaxian, Mario Bros. and Centipede. This find was an extreme rare opportunity and luckily I was able to convince my wife this was a once in a lifetime chance and that I should get it.... (just like with the other three cabs before  :laugh2: (although, still true of course !) I had to pledge that this would be the last one and I actually agree with her, since I still have to get the Centipede and Mario Bros. up and running (and restored). I guess the Star Wars will be the main priority now though....anyway, there's plenty of work for the coming 2 years or so....

I already knew the target price the seller wanted and I got 50 off because I couldn't power it up to know if the PCB's are still running like the seller claims. I didn't feel like bargaining on this one at all but I just couldn't help myself :D

I really hope that the monitor is the only problem. Having read through all the docs  already, I'm convinced I can get this monitor back to life.  The worst thing to happen on that one is having to get the new flyback from Cinelabs. All other parts are cheap enough.

I think the restoration won't need too much work other than a very good cleaning. There's some damage on the left lower side as you can see on the picture. Also the wheels that should be with the cab have been removed, so the seller told me.
And I have no idea what the condition of the yoke is......when I tried to move it during the visit I actualy had to force it a bit to get it moving again......Hasn't been touched for 8 years.....:D

I regret that I didn't take a closer look at the CRT. I'm pretty sure it's 19", but from the picture I took, I can't really tell....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: HoopstarsGarage on July 02, 2007, 06:48:02 pm
I had to pledge that this would be the last one..
Heehee.. funny that - I made the same pledge to my wife about my Star Wars Cockpit  (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=67853.0)project  :laugh2:

Must be the dark side of the force that makes us make such false statements..  ;D


Hoops
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: BrentRadio on July 02, 2007, 07:45:40 pm
Here's a tip for you.

Fix the Centipede FIRST so your wife can have a game to play. She just might change her mind and want a Ms Pacman or Frogger then!

Brent
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 03, 2007, 12:58:05 am
I had to pledge that this would be the last one..
Heehee.. funny that - I made the same pledge to my wife about my Star Wars Cockpit  (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=67853.0)project  :laugh2:

Must be the dark side of the force that makes us make such false statements..  ;D


Hoops
:laugh2: :laugh2: Man, your project is SO worth it....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 03, 2007, 01:01:53 am
Here's a tip for you.

Fix the Centipede FIRST so your wife can have a game to play. She just might change her mind and want a Ms Pacman or Frogger then!

Brent
Mmmm, not a bad idea, but the Centipede needs quite some work.....but in a way, you're right. I actualy got a complaint from my wife the other day that I should get the Mame cab back up running (some *sshole managed to completely destroy my FE's settings !!!) because she wanted to play Puzzle Bobble and Puzzloop again :D
I'm glad I won her over for those games. Although I know Centipede seems to appeal to lots of women, I kinda doubt she'll like it....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 03, 2007, 04:46:12 am
OK guys, I need your thoughts:

Compare these pictures:

1) My SW Cockpit
2) another one 25"
3) and yet another 25"

What do you guys think ? Is mine a 25" as well ? Could it be real ?
Look at the where the underside of the CRT is, it is in-line with the fuse holders on the deflection PCB. This is true on both pics 1 and 2.....

Does anyone have pictures of an 19" inside a cockpit to compare it to a 25" ?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: HoopstarsGarage on July 03, 2007, 07:24:35 am
Looks like a 25 incher to me..

here are a couple of other pictures of a 25" tube to compare with.

(http://www.arcadecup.com/swa_25inch/07222006%20012.jpg)

(http://www.arcadecup.com/swa_25inch/07222006%20014.jpg)


Hoops
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 03, 2007, 07:55:05 am
Man that would be awesome.....

That one is heavily modded, or a completely different driver board set.


Come to think about it. Has anyone ever seen a SW cockpit with a 19" monitor ? Maybe they used only 25" for the cockpit ??
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: ChadTower on July 03, 2007, 02:13:42 pm

Star Wars cockpit is the only cab at all that has a 25", I think, and even then only some of them.  I have seen 19" in cockpits but by now there is no way to know what a given cab originally came with.

Why can't you just measure the tube to find out the size?  Take a diagonal.

Or, if it's out, try and pick it up.  A 19" is easy.  A 25", not easy, and some men can't do it.



Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 03, 2007, 06:36:42 pm

Why can't you just measure the tube to find out the size?  Take a diagonal.

Because it's still at the seller's storage place :S
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: ChadTower on July 03, 2007, 08:57:56 pm

Okay, fair enough, but that's one of the first things that should have been checked... that can add 50% to the cab's value.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 08, 2007, 04:13:37 pm
You're right.....but I was lucky to be able to get this shot at all. AND I was extremely lucky to find this cab at all !!! either 19 or 25").....I had to point my camera "around the corner" without being able to look at the display to get this shot. And there's no way to tell if it's 19 or 25" from the front.....

I really think it's a 25" so that makes it an even better deal :D :D

I still think it is very strange that no-one has pictures of a 19" SW cockpit......anyway:

I arranged storage !!!!

Re-confirmed with seller and pick up will be coming week ! :D I can not wait !!!

Also found a source for BU409D's in Germany....ordered, but a very weird ordering system, I guess I will be getting an e-mail or something....

Now I gotta arange a van and some strong guys to help me :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: ChadTower on July 08, 2007, 07:57:21 pm

You can tell just by looking at it from the front if it's a 25"... it's bigger.  Shine a light through the glass.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 11, 2007, 05:40:14 pm
Well....tonight it was pick-up time for the Star Wars cockpit !!

I'm doing a fairly extensive foto report of the "road-trip" to get it......I really enjoy the way DarthNuno does his reports on his (never ending ?) road trips to collect amazing arcade cabs....so I decided to do the pics in his style a bit....here we go:

1: The rental-van.......yeah I guess it will fit in here. Main reason I got this one because of the hydraulic lift on the back that would proove VERY nice....

2: Wow, this van is almost brand-new :) Starting from home....

3: Picked up a friend from my marching band who wanted to help and headed north....rats, an unexpected traffic jam :(
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 11, 2007, 05:43:26 pm
1: Yes, we are going to this city to pick it up. It's in the north of that city...

2: Arrived on location, but the owner's dad is not there yet. He owns this whole place and rents out space...

3: Behind one of these doors the SW cockpit has waited for me for 8 years to pick her up :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 11, 2007, 05:48:06 pm
1: That guy's a real business man, money first...then we load :S (Amsterdam-people.....:banghead:!) At least we can keep the plastic cover,  :notworthy:  That lift is fantastic !!! No heavy lifting done at all....

It's also great that this cab has wheels !!!!

2: Lots of space for it.... fixed it with some scrap wood to prevent it from rolling during transport....

3: My son seems to want to fly this baby home.... :D

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 11, 2007, 05:52:08 pm
1: Let's head south and back for home......

2: We pass Schiphol airport......holy smoke what's happening there !!!!!

3: Biggies parked amongst each-other ;) Time for a check-up on the passenger: She didn't move at all, great :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 11, 2007, 05:56:52 pm
1: Some scenery, just for fun...

2: and another..... used to be the tallest building in Europe (375 m high, 40m more than the Eiffel Tower): http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerbrandytoren

3: Almost home, Ridderkerk here we come !
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 11, 2007, 06:01:01 pm
1: Time to unload at destination !!!My son figured out how to operate the lift within 10 seconds.....totaly safe, you need two hands to operate it :D

2: Finaly a shot of the left side of the cab....very very very nice !!! The cab will stay here until my Gameroom is finished....I can work on the cab here as well :D ! :applaud:

3: Now, I've got to know for once and for all: Is it 19" or 25"........ladies and gentleman, judge for yourself............... :notworthy: :dizzy: :cheers: :notworthy: :dizzy: :cheers: :applaud: :laugh: :P :D :cheers:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 11, 2007, 06:05:25 pm
1: Game PCB's.

2: Bottom

3: Right side
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 11, 2007, 06:06:55 pm
1: Deflection board, looks great

2: HV-board: Dead-red (?)

3: Yoke wheels....seem to be very greasy !
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 11, 2007, 06:08:22 pm
1: 213,5 kilomters round trip.....very much worth it :D

2: A last shot.....


Much to my regret, the power cord had no plug :S.....so I couldn't power it up just yet.....will work on it next saturday.

This cab has been in The Netherlands from the start, stickers are indicating this.....more later !!!
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: ChadTower on July 12, 2007, 11:17:30 am

Nice.  That thing is in great shape.  Measure the tube.  Now.  We must know.

BTW, I'm going to laugh at you now for going to Amsterdam and picking up an arcade game instead of 5 hookers and a 10" joint.   :laugh2:

 ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: blueznl on July 12, 2007, 11:26:49 am
I *hate* you  ;)

Actually, I'm just dead jealous, great find! But stop mentioning these because, well, I don't have the space to have my own gameroom...

Though, seriously, if you run out of space I do have some warehouse space in NL that could be used to store some stuff. (I'm from Capelle as you may know. The storage space is in Utrecht though.)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 12, 2007, 11:38:00 am
Chad, since the whole cab is filled with CRT tube from left to right I am 99% sure that this is indeed a 25"  :D

Sorry Blueznl........Capelle a/d IJssel ?? That's  very close to my town :D ! You're welcome to come around and visit, although now only the Galaxian (and my Mamecab) are working/accesible......

The SW is fine for the coming period.....I need to get that Gameroom built :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 12, 2007, 11:45:28 am

BTW, I'm going to laugh at you now for going to Amsterdam and picking up an arcade game instead of 5 hookers and a 10" joint.   :laugh2:

 ;)
Haha, yeah the things that Amsterdam are famous for.....well you can have both those hookers and the joints..... I'm in Amsterdam at least a couple of times  per month on average......I hate the place, sorry, but you know, I'm from Rotterdam originally (live in a suburb now) and well,Amsterdam vs. Rotterdam are like Boston Red Sox vs. New York Yankies....

And besides, you can get hookers and joints at most big(ger) cities here....no need to travel 100km for that :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: blueznl on July 12, 2007, 11:49:20 am
I started living in Rotterdam (or actually nearby Rotterdam) about 10 years ago, because I found a job there. About half a year later I switched company, and the new one was based in Amsterdam. You guessed it, 10 years later I'm still doing the almost daily trip Rotterdam - Amsterdam, which amounts to cruising the biggest parking lot in the world... (A4+A13=JAM) Funniest thing: I worked for different companies over those 10 years, and they're all in Amsterdam (sigh).

Level42, I'd love to come and play but I'm not going to. I first want to complete my own cabinet, otherwise I'd feel too ashamed!
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: ChadTower on July 12, 2007, 11:51:40 am

Yeah, but can you get them legally as easily as buying a pair of shoes?  That's the luxury.

BTW, I am very very very envious on the 25" monitor.  That's the one thing I have never been able to find.  I've only seen one and the guy wanted $2000 for the cockpit it was in.  I need to do a little more research on the architecture of the vector monitor so I can try locating a 27" or 29" tube with the proper deflection angle and see if a vector chassis will drive it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: amadama on July 12, 2007, 04:06:12 pm
That's a nice looking machine. Congratulations Level42!
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: shardian on July 12, 2007, 04:46:47 pm
Hey, WTF??? I thought you guys drove on the WRONG side of the road? ???
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 12, 2007, 06:56:43 pm
Amdama: Thanks !!! I'm on a pink cloud and can't wait til saturday to start work on it :D

Shardian: Whatever gave you that idea ?? The only place in Europe that they drive on the wrong side is the UK, but as we all know they are always stubborn there :D ;)  In the past, only Sweden has been left driving AFAIK.

ChadTower: yeah it is legal to get softdrugs here (joints). The really funny thing is that it's ok to buy small amounts for personal use, and the "coffee" shops are allowed to sell it, but as soon as "wholesale" and production comes around, everything is certainly illegal again !!! Talk about weird !

I hate drugs though, but I do think the softdrug policy here kinda works.....

As for hookers.....yeah it's legal to visit them, but they are still battling them on other ways....if you still want to visit the red-light district, better be fast....but it's a nasty neigborhood IMHO. Lots of dope dealers and other weirdo's......

About that monitor (let's return on-subject :) ):
Remember that the Amplifone vector was/is a mid-res tube. I've been thinking that a computer CRT (21" or something) could work with the correct yoke....a regular arcade monitor or TV-CRT will be too low res for a true Amplifone picture. I don't think anything bigger than a 25" will fit in a cockpit however ?

What do you have, a cockpit or an upright ?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: ArcadeMaze on July 12, 2007, 08:43:03 pm
X
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 14, 2007, 10:35:09 am
OK, did the first investigations !!!

First I removed the upper lid to see the monitor a bit better.....here's the beauty:


Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 14, 2007, 10:37:45 am
Weird. Although the tube is US built, it seems they used cm's in the typenumber.....63 cm matches.....25" :D



Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 14, 2007, 10:43:55 am
I made some video's that I will put on Youtube....

It was scary to start it up. When it did, there was the "usual" start-up humm. Then it was running and it smelt funny. You know, that typical electronics burning smell, but not much, and there was no smoke so I thought it was just the dust heating up....

Anyway, dropped in a coin (yes there was the "obvious" Guilder still in the coinbox) and I was greeted with the famous "The force will be with you"..... I was excited as a child.....at least the PCB's are running !!!

Game starts, sounds are all great !!!

(More later)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: blueznl on July 14, 2007, 02:52:19 pm
YOU MEAN IT WORKS?!?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 14, 2007, 03:07:32 pm
Except for the monitor, yes it works.....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: blueznl on July 14, 2007, 03:20:11 pm
Oh  :( I thought even the monitor worked, for a moment I was confused, dumbfounded, and even more jealous than I am right now  8)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 14, 2007, 05:30:56 pm
Oh  :( I thought even the monitor worked, for a moment I was confused, dumbfounded, and even more jealous than I am right now  8)

Nahhh....see that picture of the HV-board ? that black spot......not good...... :D

Almost all the "important" parts on the HV-board are toasted. Voltage regulators, BU406D, the 50 Ohms resistor that caused this burning mark and I guess of course the infamous red-dead HV-transformer. I cannot test it, but I decided I will get all those parts new and rebuild the HV.....(as if I could decide anything else ;) )
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: rovingmind on July 14, 2007, 05:35:12 pm
At least it went to a good home and is being lovingly repaired. 
I'm going home to sulk now because i cant start building mine till this fall/winter.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 15, 2007, 10:46:10 am
I just put up a short video. Enjoy !

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJLPxdg7lvQ[/youtube]
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Kaytrim on July 15, 2007, 01:54:44 pm
Cool little video.  Looks like you are ahead of the game with the boards and sound working.

TTFN
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Darth Nuno on July 15, 2007, 02:12:20 pm
Hey, great Andre   :applaud:

Happy to see you having finally that great arcade game... I real enjoy the video. It's a real please too see such enthousiam for Arcade Collecting  8)

ps : your vid' remind me the one I've done for Star Wars lightsaber test  ;D Have a look here :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x0naPngwuY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x0naPngwuY)

... don't miss the Star Wars cockpit... at the very end of the vid  :)

See ya soon ( let's organize an european meeting  :D )
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 16, 2007, 01:11:06 am
Haha, yeah I saw that video before (I'm a regular visitor of your site :) )! Funny !!

About the meeting: Would be great to have more arcade fans to gather here in Europe !!!

What do you think of sunday august 5 ?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: ChadTower on July 16, 2007, 10:19:28 am

Playing blind doesn't mean the boards are 100%.  It means the game circuitry is working, which is great, but the AVG circuit could be the problem rather than the monitor.  Find that circuit and start probing the test points... IIRC, X and Y should be coming back in roughly the -12v to 12v range, random values of course, and I can't remember the intensity range.  Definitely verify, don't take my values as correct, but they're probably not far off.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 16, 2007, 11:46:37 am
Hey Chad, thanks for that suggestion...yeah that could be true, but I've studied quite some info I got from the net and the most likely part of the cab to fail is the red HVT. I don't have a tester for that, but chances that it's bad are VERY high because a lot of parts on the HV board are toasted. When the HVT goes, it takes some parts with it. The 7824 and 7924 both show shorts, the 50 Ohms resistor that caused this burn mark is somewhere in the Megaohms now (and lord knows what it does when power is supplied to it). The delection board is said to be very reliable. The game PCB's of course could also have problems. Indeed I think it's a great indication that it's responding to inputs and playing blind. No it's not a guarantee the picture is still there, but since I have defective parts on the HV-board, I think that's the most logical place to start.There's no neck-glow on the CRT and I don't hear the well-known "knistering" sound when the monitor comes on. This all indicates of no HV being present, so I guess that's my starting point.

Of course, I could replace all suspicious parts on the HV board and try to run it with the "dead-red" HVT, but from what I've read these HVT's will go sooner or later. $99,- will buy me a brand new, overspecced HVT, as you said before, that shouldn't be a problem compared to the money I paid for the cab.

Now that Multigame board that makes it possible to play the Empire Strikes Back as well (and save scores) is a different story....but I know I am going to want that as soon as the monitor is fixed :D

Anyway, I do have an oscilloscope, so I guess I could use that to check what you suggested. The really fun part is that that scope could work as a "Test" monitor. I should be able to see the game playing on it since, well an arcade vector monitor is nothing more than a big oscilloscope :D

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: ChadTower on July 16, 2007, 12:19:58 pm

I've seen guys use scopes as test monitors for vector games.  That is defintiely possible if you have a capable scope.  The multigame kit is hard to find now and pricey when you do...

...and yes, no neck glow makes the HV monitor circuit the first thing you fix.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 16, 2007, 01:06:48 pm
I found it. And yes it's expensive. But very worthwhile I guess...but I first want to fix the monitor :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: shardian on July 16, 2007, 02:07:57 pm

I've seen guys use scopes as test monitors for vector games.  That is defintiely possible if you have a capable scope.  The multigame kit is hard to find now and pricey when you do...

You are serious? I thought level42 was just joking around.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 16, 2007, 04:02:53 pm

I've seen guys use scopes as test monitors for vector games.  That is defintiely possible if you have a capable scope.  The multigame kit is hard to find now and pricey when you do...

You are serious? I thought level42 was just joking around.
Are you kidding, I never yoke around......sorry joke around :P

What is a vector monitor ? It's a monitor where the electron beam is not drawing line by line on the screen like a regular TV or normal arcade monitor. Instead, the beam is moved around as commanded by the signals  coming from the game PCB. (in a color vector, it's three beams of course).

An oscilloscope it exactly the same thing. However, normally, the movement on the x-axis is determined by a timing setting on the scope. So the electron-beam goes from left to right. When signals are supplied to the Y input, these signals will control the Y movement of the beam. In that way you can see the signal as it moves in time. (f.i. like your heart-beat on a cardio machine, exactly the same thing).
Like this:
(http://spds.ece.uci.edu/~gene/photogallery/oscilloscope.jpg)

However, on almost all oscilloscopes it's possible to let the y-movement also controlled by an external signal. This way you can get pretty images like this:

(http://www.ilankelman.org/themes/oscilloscope1.jpg)

This picture should already give you an indication of what an arcade vector is doing..... :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: shardian on July 16, 2007, 04:08:27 pm
An oscilloscope it exactly the same thing. However, normally, the movement on the x-axis is determined by a timing setting on the scope. So the electron-beam goes from left to right. When signals are supplied to the Y input, these signals will control the Y movement of the beam. In that way you can see the signal as it moves in time. (f.i. like your heart-beat on a cardio machine, exactly the same thing).
Like this:
(http://spds.ece.uci.edu/~gene/photogallery/oscilloscope.jpg)



The bold section above is what was keeping me from believing what you were saying.

I would love to see an example of an oscilloscope playing a vector game image. That would be very cool.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: Level42 on July 16, 2007, 04:15:27 pm
I may be able to give it a try next saturday. Remember that I will only get one of the three colors on an oscilloscope. I do need a second probe though. You normaly need only one, but of course since I will be supplying two signals at the same time I will need a second.....hope I can find one....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe it)
Post by: ChadTower on July 16, 2007, 04:17:49 pm
Vector pong on a scope (http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2006/11/vectorbased_pon.html)

That's all I can find from here but of course my work proxy kills most game sites.  I've seen Star Wars on a scope in person... it's really just a little vector monitor once you get it going right... of course, only in one color.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: SavannahLion on July 16, 2007, 07:13:08 pm
I would love to see an example of an oscilloscope playing a vector game image. That would be very cool.

Not exactly a vector game PCB driving an oscilloscope but ZVG (http://www.zektor.com/zvg/index.html) is an example of a board driving an oscilloscope as a game screen.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit...now officialy mine....!!!!! (I can't believe it !!!!)
Post by: Level42 on July 17, 2007, 11:26:08 am
I would love to see an example of an oscilloscope playing a vector game image. That would be very cool.

Not exactly a vector game PCB driving an oscilloscope but ZVG (http://www.zektor.com/zvg/index.html) is an example of a board driving an oscilloscope as a game screen.

Yes, and so is any other Vector game PCB.
 

:D

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: ChadTower on July 17, 2007, 11:42:45 am

A vector monitor is really a fixed rate oscilloscope with a couple other little controls (intensity, alternate colors, etc).
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: Level42 on July 18, 2007, 06:11:57 pm
Something completely different:

Anyone know a source for that ribbed T-molding used on this baby ? The
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: ChadTower on July 18, 2007, 06:44:35 pm

In the movies, when someone stops a sentence in the middle like that, it's because someone jabbed a spear through their
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: Level42 on July 19, 2007, 11:42:29 am
Hahaha, no worries, I'm alive and well.....don't know what happened....

to end the sentence:

The "usual" places don't have it.     That's all....

By the way, I just received my order of BU406D's....10 of them, should be enough for the rest of my life :P

I found a cheap and reliable source for them in Germany (don't worry, sits is in English too):

http://sh-halbleiter.de/final/index2.php?sp=2

This is a direct link to the BU406D:
http://sh-halbleiter.de/final/index2.php?sid=33ce027bf470aab03dac6212ac931d6b&tp=1&kn=0&sp=2&g1=0&g2=0&g3=0&ti=&ms=0&od=0&an=&bm=0&ch=&st=bu406d&x=0&y=0

I received them very fast after payment and very well packed....

Also went to my local electronics parts dealer for the "easy" parts. Got all the suspected dead parts and a few more, like all the caps so I can replace them wether they are bad or not.

I did a check comparing my original BU406D to the new one's. These baby's are hard to check because they have a built-in diode and resistor on top of the transistor. In diode test both the old and new one seem to be responding the same, although the old was showing a 0,63 V across basis and emitter and the new one only 0,19V........

I wonder if I should give it a try to replace the defective parts and see if my "ded-read" HVT still lives....


Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: ChadTower on July 19, 2007, 01:18:20 pm

.19V is too small across a diode... probably not completely dead but leaky, particularly if the PN junction is mostly worn out... maybe from too much time blocking current in the wrong direction, or too many surges... take a peek at what in the circuit would be feeding that diode from the opposite direction, see if those parts check out.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: Level42 on July 19, 2007, 02:41:54 pm
Uhhmmm, the 0.19V is on the brand new BU 406D's.......  ::)


Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: ChadTower on July 19, 2007, 02:49:26 pm

Oh... maybe I'm picturing something different from your description.  Hrm.  Still, junction drop from any single diode should be in the 0.7v range, yes?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: Level42 on July 19, 2007, 03:13:43 pm
Yes, you're right. The BU406D is basicaly a transistor. The D stands for Diode and this is added to it inside.

Strangely, no datasheet I've found seems to indicate this. However, Atari's schematic of the Amplifone HV monitor does. I've included a small part of it...as you can see it is driven by the step-up transformer and the BU406D then drives the HVT. If (or better when) the HVT fails, it will VERY likely take out (at least) the BU.

Lots of people have been replacing it with a BU406 (without the D) and this is a big problem according to all the docs I've read.


By the way, I wrote that the diode was across basis and emitter, but that's incorrect as you can see. It's across collector and emitter.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: ChadTower on July 19, 2007, 03:17:09 pm

Good to know.  I have 3 vector monitors I need to pull and fix.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: Level42 on July 20, 2007, 01:53:28 am

Good to know.  I have 3 vector monitors I need to pull and fix.
3 !!!

Which brands/types ?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe it)
Post by: Singapura on July 20, 2007, 03:24:38 am
Stories like this are more addicitive then a soap on tv! Can't wait for the end result.  ;D Good to see that there are still good finds in the Netherlands, especially my all time favourite sit-down game. I remember playing it in the arcade in Veendam (of all places). Here in Singapore there's little chance of running into gems like this  :-[
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: ChadTower on July 20, 2007, 01:34:51 pm
Which brands/types ?

One is a Sega... the other two, not 100% sure off the top of my head, one in an AD and the other in a Star Wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: Level42 on July 20, 2007, 04:12:35 pm
Which brands/types ?

One is a Sega... the other two, not 100% sure off the top of my head, one in an AD and the other in a Star Wars.
The AD is probably an Electrohome G05. The Star Wars probably an Amplifone 19" ? Although many Amplifone's have been replaced with WG 6100's....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: ChadTower on July 20, 2007, 04:14:21 pm
The AD is probably an Electrohome G05. The Star Wars probably an Amplifone 19" ? Although many Amplifone's have been replaced with WG 6100's....

I think you're right on the AD, but I haven't even looked into the SW yet to see. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: Level42 on July 20, 2007, 04:39:26 pm
WHAT ?? And this from the guy who urged me to check the CRT's diameter  :laugh2: :laugh2:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: ChadTower on July 20, 2007, 04:45:41 pm

Heh.  That SW is a serious project that pretty much got stowed in the shed and put behind a buttload of stuff in the queue.    Much water damage to the cab, I didn't even try to start it, I just checked to see that everything was there and put it away.  It's 19", that is all that really matters.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: ArcadeMaze on July 20, 2007, 10:29:45 pm
X
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: Level42 on July 21, 2007, 03:19:38 am
Well, I guess vectors are about the most replaced monitors in arcade games because of all the well-known reasons....and operator's probably hoped to get a more reliable one by replacing the original with another brand.
But it could also be that manufacturers switched because of supply problems.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: Level42 on July 21, 2007, 05:12:48 am
By the way, about the 19"/25" debate: I've studied the SW cockpit operation and parts manual and it simply ONLY mentions the 25" there.  Both in the drawings and parts listing.

This, combined with the fact that all pictures I've seen on the net of SW CP CRT's are 25" makes it safe to conclude that the Cockpit has ONLY been equipped with 25".
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: Level42 on July 22, 2007, 04:37:28 am
Hah, I only discovered yesterday that my SW CP had made it to the news page !!! I already wondered what the all-of-a-sudden high rates of view on the pictures came from. Thanks Saint, I feel honoured !  :cheers:

OK. Let's face it, in this hobby and on this forum it's great to report about your successes. However, sometimes you f.u. in the proces. It's normal, we're only human after all (from a well-known Level 42 song :) )
However, sometimes it's REALLY embarrassing how stupid you can be. So first I thought not to post this, but then again... what the heck:

Yesterday I found a couple of hours to work on the CP. Now, as you remember, the cab is stored in a good friend's shed so when I go there I have to bring my stuff like docs, equipment etc.

I started working on the HV-board, replacing all the suspected/defective parts. It turned out that only the 7824 was really defective and of course the 50 Ohms resistor that burnt out. However I still replaced the 7924, the 1N4001 diodes, the other resistor and all the elco's ("caps"). However, for some stupid reason I had de-soldered the resistor wire and the 1N4001 diode wire the last time I worked on it.

For those who don't know, these diodes and 50 Ohms resistors were added to the design of the HV board later, it's a factory mod. So there's no clear indication on where goes what (The diodes are on the tracks side of the PCB).

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=68094.0;attach=79508;image)

So I thought I had figured it out and remembered how things were connected.....so I soldered away. (I regretted very much not printing out the picture I took from the track-side....should have prevented this mistake)

Then it was power-up time, and of course I was checking the resistor as soon as it powered up, and I freaking almost burnt my finger, so it was again/still heating up like nuts......
So I thought something else must be making this happening, a part I hadn't replaced. (FYI I hadn't put back in the BU406D which I had removed before. This way, there is no drive to the HVT, so the HVT can't blow up the first stages of the circuit....

I looked at the schematics and decided that only a couple of transistor could cause this, but all of them checked out fine.

Then I had another look. Sadly, the 50 Ohms resistors are not represented in the schematics, so I looked at the great Amplifone FAQ doc by Michael Kelley (http://www.gamearchive.com/Video_Games/Manufacturers/Atari/monitors/amplifone/amplifone_faq_1_2.pdf) and there it was: I had connected the resistor to the wrong pins...DUHHHH, I was directly feeding the output of the 7824 into the 50 Ohms resistor, no wonder it got hot !!!! (It should have been across pins 1 and 3 of course....!)

I'm not sure if I fried the 7824 by doing this....I had little time left. I did correct the mistake of course and now the resistor stayed cool. Then I decided to try and put in a fresh BU406D....
Fired up and, no picture.......I bet the HVT is dead, as very much expected. I ordered one, gotta wait for it to arrive...

Sorry if this all gets very technical.....bottom line is to check and check again....I'm embarrassed that this happened to me, being en electronics professional, but at least there is no permanent damage. "The force is still with me" when I throw in a coin, and I can hear the deflection sound changing during attract mode, I hope that's another indication of the game PCB's still working OK :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: ChadTower on July 23, 2007, 09:57:17 am
This, combined with the fact that all pictures I've seen on the net of SW CP CRT's are 25" makes it safe to conclude that the Cockpit has ONLY been equipped with 25".

Maybe in Europe?  I've seen a few cockpits, a couple "completely original", and I've only ever seen one with a 25".  Hard to say, really, but I can't imagine ops throwing away their 25" amplifones when the 19" aren't much more reliable.

Bummer on the mistake but it sounds like it was more time wasting than physically damaging.  If that's all that happens, the project is going well.  Make it as technical as you'd like... I enjoy reading it and have a SW to rebuild myself.  The only thing I couldn't follow is that I am unfamiliar with most parts by number.

To take a guess - 7824/7924 - 24 volt regulators, positive/negative respectively?

And clean up that ancient flux, man!   :laugh2:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: Level42 on July 23, 2007, 02:42:30 pm
But were they 19" Amplifone's ? Maybe they were WG's ? I'm not saying I doubt what you saw, but AFAIK Atari's manuals were universal(global). They often mention differences between the US and Irish built cabs (like f.i. the coin mechs, the manual says that only the Irish were equipped with two.....) So it would be very likely they would mention both 19 and 25" if both were used in the CP's.Atari was very thorough on the manuals. My Centipede still had the original manual and also mentions both US and Irish versions...

Then again, who knows, maybe they ran out of supply on the CRT's or something like that...

Maybe the 7824 got damaged, but I got an extra for both of the regulators of course...

Yeah, I guess I wrote too much from a point that people who have read the Amplifone Faq and/or read the Amplifone manual.

Indeed 7824(+) and 7924(-) are voltage regulators. The BU406D is the transistor that drives the HVT.

I just got a mail from Mark Shostak from Cinelabs and he explained me that the rule of thumb on the HVTs is that if it's red, it's dead. Every red HVT he has seen was dead. The only way he could get a working one was by asking lots of people, and then he finaly found ONE working.

I ordered his replacement HVT. I think he's the only source for Amplifone Replacement HVT's now. Timing is perfect, since they are only available from february this year...There used to be also Wintron HVT's, but these were really expensive (200 bucks) and you had to do some mods on the wiring afaik. Cinelabs' replacement is a drop-in, no "hacking" around...check it out: http://www.cinelabs.com/amp/ (http://www.cinelabs.com/amp/)

I borrowed a HV probe from my uncle who has been in TV repairs for years (Running In The Family ? (Another Level 42 smash-hit :P)). Gave it a test drive yesterday on my Galaxian monitor (=Philips TV) but it overloaded my Fluke...aparantly there's not enough resistors in this probe  ::) No damage to the Fluke, but no reading either. Only after I turned the cab off, the range lowered enough to give a reading....

Anyway, I got this from e-bay
(http://i16.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/a9/6e/6dd7_1.JPG)

Should be on it's way now. Nice to have an all-in one unit, and I've got two more cabs with defective monitors ahead of me, so I figured it would make sense to get one.

So now I just have to wait for the HVT to arrive....but I can do some cleaning work on the rest of the cab...

How should I get rid of the flux ? As you can see, most of the pins having it are from the HVT and since I will replace that anyway, brand new solder will be used :D I already reflowed the most dark looking solderings but that was after this pic was taken.....

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: ChadTower on July 23, 2007, 02:51:26 pm

I usually just use rubbing alcohol to get the flux off.  It probably doesn't matter there but I would imagine it does present a small heat issue in other places. 

Is that an HV probe?  I've never actually used one.  I do have a whole bunch of CRT type testing equipment I got off Freecycle a while back... even a very nice CRT tester that I haven't had the occasion to use yet.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: Level42 on July 23, 2007, 03:31:37 pm
OK, thanks for that tip. Yes that's an HV probe with internal voltage meter, so you don't need a seperate DVM for it.

I will battle the heat by installing a really big fat fan. This is suggested in the Amplifone faq and sounds like a good idea to me. I'm using a really big one because it will be able to run on a slow speed so not make lots of noise (although SW CP already has a really big fan) AND because I got it in a "package deal" in which I got a lot of arcade controls in one lot. Perfect for this use....

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: ChadTower on July 23, 2007, 03:34:05 pm

Cool.  Literally.

I'd consider adding two fans... one blowing in, one blowing out.  Maximum airflow.  They can both be slow and quiet that way.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: Level42 on July 23, 2007, 05:06:12 pm
I'll mount the fan directly near the HV pcb. Should be enough.

By the way, can somebody report this guy to the Mame devs/Ebay ?

http://cgi.ebay.nl/ATARI-CLASSIC-1984-STAR-WARS-ARCADE-GAME-PLAY-IT-NOW_W0QQitemZ140140903121QQihZ004QQcategoryZ50277QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: Level42 on July 25, 2007, 12:49:30 am
Two pics I made last saturday BEFORE I exchanged the bad parts. They show the burned resistor (on top, in the middle) you can see how it blackened the PCB. The right side of the first picture is normaly up, you can see the travel of the heat/smoke.....but all this damage was already there when I bought the cab.

When I removed the resistor, the PCB under it had a bright white spot, it totally burned away the blue color !


Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: ChadTower on July 26, 2007, 10:02:46 am

Nice.  Keep the work going on this, can't wait to see it alive.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: Level42 on July 26, 2007, 04:04:21 pm
Yeah, I will do some work this weekend (although not on sunday, as I will be visiting DarthNuno's lair, can't wait !!!!)

I just PayPalled the money to Cinelabs for a replacement HVT.....so I will remove the dead-red and then wait......well, I can start to do some cleaning of course :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe it)
Post by: arcadefever on July 26, 2007, 08:09:21 pm
Quote
although not on sunday, as I will be visiting DarthNuno's lair, can't wait

Say Hello to Bruno from me  ;)

have fun  :cheers:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: Level42 on July 27, 2007, 07:03:04 am
Quote
although not on sunday, as I will be visiting DarthNuno's lair, can't wait

Say Hello to Bruno from me  ;)

have fun  :cheers:

Will do, but I didn't look right on my agenda. I will be visting Bruno NEXT week (aug. 5)....sorry for any confusion Bruno ! :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: Level42 on July 27, 2007, 11:08:24 am
While waiting for the HVT to arrive, I'd like to share this website with you:

http://www.jmargolin.com

This is Jed Margolin's website. Jed is the man behind the hardware of (amongst others) Battlezone,  Star Wars, Hard Drivin' and Steel Talons. He worked an impressive 13 years at Atari (Games) !

This site looks boring, but is full of great information. Sometimes very technical, but often also very interesting for other stuff....sometimes you have to read "through" the technical stuff, because interesting facts are spread out in between....


Some highlights:

- Star Wars (this is what I found first on this site): http://www.jmargolin.com/vgens/vgens.htm#Star

- Space War - This is a game proposal that Jed brought with him on his job interview with Atari. Check out the date (last page) !!! He is talking a 3D game, with speech synthesizers, and even mentions the idea of linking them, even through telephone lines. All this in 1978 !!! This guy was really ahead of his time :) !
When you read this, you will easily see which ideas finally made it into Star Wars (and some into Battlezone):
http://www.jmargolin.com/patents/atari1.pdf

- Amplifone Notebook ! This was handed to Jed during the first meeting between Atari and Amplifone. Take a look if you have an Amplifone vector monitor ! This shows that HVT's were one of the main products of Amplifone BEFORE Atari got involved.....wonder how they survived, or was the dead-red just bad luck ?  Very worth taking a look at, in a time it's hard to imagine that a factory like that was NOT in China  ! http://www.jmargolin.com/xy/ampnote.pdf

- The secret life of XY monitors: http://www.jmargolin.com/xy/xymons.htm
- The secret life of Vector Generators: http://www.jmargolin.com/vgens/vgmenu.htm
- TomCat - Atari's last XY game (never released) http://www.jmargolin.com/tomcat/tomcat.htm
- Atari Telephone directory 1983 :D http://www.jmargolin.com/history/ataridir.htm
- http://www.jmargolin.com/vmail/vmail.htm  if you're really bored, there is a TON of e-mail (vax-mail really) stored here that went between Atari Employees. Some things are really boring, something are quite interesting to read !)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: ChadTower on July 27, 2007, 03:18:18 pm

Dammit.  Now I have to read it all.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: Level42 on July 29, 2007, 05:04:10 am
Haha, enjoy :)

Been to my cab yesterday.
 
I de-soldered the red-dead HVT. I wanted to remove the anode-cup on the CRT, but there is some REALLY dirty stuff over it.
You can easily see the area around the cup on this picture:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=68094.0;attach=79502;image)

 I think it's put there in the factory, probably to seal it off completely ? Seems like some clear kit/gel. Really sticks to your fingers. I've never seen stuff like this on other CRTs/anode cups.

Since it will be some time until I receive the new HVT, I decided to leave the cup where it is (so not to open the hole). Don't know why, I just didn't want any dirt to come into it... So I snapped of the wire instead.

I temporarily removed the transitor that drives the HVT (the BU406D) again and powered up. Everything seems OK. I measured the input and output of the 7824, got about 30V in, 27V out. It's not exactly 24V because it's not under load now and also because of the parallel 50 Ohms 5 W resisitor, so this is OK.

The 7924 showed even almost the same voltage in (-30V) as out. I was a bit worried about that, so I desoldered it, compared it in diode check with a brand new 7924 and it's  still fine. I guess it's just that there is completely no load for the 7924 now that it's output is about as high as the input.

Next I got my scope to check if the 555 is oscillating. Took a bit of time to adjust it correctly (my oscilloscope is REALLY ancient, 40 years, and Russian built, tiny 2" round screen :D) but then I could clearly see the block signal  :applaud:
Next i checked if it was present on the last transistor before the HVT driving transistor (Q2) and indeed it was there and of course in a much higher amplitude.
(Regretfully I don't have a second probe to try and get a game picture....)

So, I think my HVT-board is ready for the new HVT to arrive.......can't wait !!!!!!!!

Did some cleaning of the sides and the bezel, steering yoke, CP etc. It still amazes me how much dirt keeps coming off, and how much the looks improve. Of course I used my favorite stuff, DASTY (see the Galaxian No.815 thread).
I forgot to bring my camera so I have no pictures of how it turned out....will do next time. By the way the marquee lighting works great and the marquee looks near mint :D

I was thinking about removing the deflection board and/or the game PCB's to check/clean them, and maybe even re-cap them, but I decided not to move ANYTHING electronic, untill I've got the HV up and running....

Did remove the two ventilation covers to give them a good clean......gotta start somewhere ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: Level42 on July 29, 2007, 05:33:12 am
That ded-read looks very nice after a good bath. That doesn't make it less dead though  ::)

Ultra Tuned.....yeah right  :D


Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: ChadTower on July 29, 2007, 10:31:19 am

I wonder if that stuff around the cap was done to repair the conductive paint around the anode cap... possibly from past arcing out of the anode.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: Level42 on July 29, 2007, 12:41:04 pm
Mmm, I hope not  ::)

Check out other Amplifone CRT pics:
(http://andysarcade.de/data/picseries/vecmon_amplifone/pic016.jpg)

Look at the cup on the right:
(http://andysarcade.de/data/picseries/vecmon_amplifone/pic006.jpg)

Looks like the same gel/kit stuff to me, so I'm not really worried about that......

Man do I want that HVT........I guess the first second after powering it up after it's installed will be REALLY freightening  :o

Almost forgot: big  :applaud: :applaud: to Jed Margolin for sharing all that great (Atari) info !!! And thanks for making Star Wars possible  :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: Level42 on July 30, 2007, 01:34:16 pm
Just won a Star Wars orginal operation & Parts manual on E-bay......I forgot to look, but it's for the upright......

Does anybody have one for the cockpit he wants to trade ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: ChadTower on July 30, 2007, 01:39:24 pm

I have a DVD full of manuals at home... I'll see if I can find it and if it would be on there.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: Level42 on July 30, 2007, 01:58:42 pm

I have a DVD full of manuals at home... I'll see if I can find it and if it would be on there.
Are these higher res then the one's on the net ? (http://arcarc.xmission.com/PDF_Arcade_Atari_Kee/)

In the end, I really want an original one. I've got one for my Galaxian (ebay) and Centipede (was with the cab). Besides being it nice from a collectors point of view, the full size fold out schematics are a lot easier to use than the scanned 1 page one's....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit..waiting for parts to start repairs...(still can't believe
Post by: ChadTower on July 30, 2007, 03:19:38 pm

Someone gave me the DVD a long time ago as a tossin on some purchase... and knowing the source, it probably IS those scans.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 04, 2007, 05:46:36 pm
Today was D-day. While I was typing a mail  to Mark Shostak of Cinelabs, the doorbell rang and there was the mail man with a parcel in his hand. The  HVT had arrived ! Very quick delivery, USPS  :applaud:

Needless to say it took me little time to grab my things and go over to my friend's place where the cab is.

First (acc. to Marks' excellent installation manual) I needed to move CR3 (big diode) to the solder side of the PCB, because on the blue version of the PCB this would be in the way of the new HVT.
I checked it while I had soldered it out of the board, measured fine.

Next I put in a fresh BU406D. Not taking ANY chances :)

Then it was time to put in the HVT....it took me a couple of minutes and a little, VERY careful bending of one leg...then it was a perfect fit. Soldered all the pins and the wires for the focus and heater, and placed the anode cup in it's position.

Then it was power-up time. One last final check, everything ok, let's turn it on. I was much more comfortable  about it then I'd thought, the force was strong :P

Power up and...yes, we have neckglow !!!!......also, no smoke, all parts stay relatively cool, then I turned around to take a look at the monitor and there it was playing for the first time in......god knows how many years (at least 8) !!!!!!!!!!!!  :cheers: :applaud: :cheers: :notworthy: :notworthy:

Pict1: The two HVT's compared. One is bad, one is good....

Pic2: The moved Diode, easy

Pic3: The Cinelabs HVT in it's place.


Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 04, 2007, 05:51:25 pm
Pic 1: The fully repaired HV PCB, ready for many years to come :)

Pic 2: The new Anode cup...

Pic 3:.......need I say more ?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 04, 2007, 05:57:42 pm
I'll put up some video on youtube in a few minutes.....

More pics: What a lovely sight !!!!!   :notworthy:


Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 04, 2007, 05:58:51 pm
2 more pics...
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 04, 2007, 06:06:41 pm
First power up (not really, but I was too concerned with other things during the REAL first start-up, AND more excited :P)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz5BumhBJ_4[/youtube]


I would like to thank Mark Shostak from Cinelabs for making this repair possible. Without his efforts in getting these replacement HVT's build, this would be one dead game. Also, he is great in his support through mail and very helpful: a big round of  :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :cheers: :cheers: and of course:  :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:  www.cinelabs.com

Also thanks to Micheal Kelley, who wrote the fantastic Amplifone FAQ doc. It has helped me A LOT in understanding the problems on the HV PCB and everything else. Again:  :applaud: :applaud: :cheers: :cheers: :notworthy: :notworthy:

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 04, 2007, 06:19:46 pm
OK, after playing about a dozen games, I examined the HV PCB again. The resistors are the parts that get relatively hot, but that's probably normal. All other parts feel fine.

I put the HV PCB back in it's place.

I again sat down and examined the screen. For a start: It looks amazing after 25 years !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes its' been in storage for quite some time, but still....this game saw a lot of action, despite it's good looks. The coin counter is around the 77000 mark (so it earned a lot of money for the operator !).....

While playing, the picture is great.....I totaly LOVE vectors !!!

I had never played SW on a real arcade cab, only in MAME with joystick control (which completely sucks of course). The control of the yoke is amazing and adds SO much to the game...

Anyway, when the game is running in attract mode, I do see some problems with the screen. First, there is a  convergence problem in the lower left corner. It's possible that this can easily be corrected with a degaussing coil. However, it can also be that it already has been corrected by the internal degaussing....
Then, there is clearly some geometric problem.....my guess is that that is a matter of replacing caps on the deflection board.
Also, when the letters are displayed, the letters are not completely perfect. They seem a bit "crooked". I also think this can be a cap problem.
Then, the most obvious problem, is that the screen starts to flicker when there is a LOT of text on the screen. During gameplay, there is no problem at all....This again could be caps, maybe even the big blue on the power supply.....

So, I took the deflection and game PCBs out, and brought them home to work on them. They look amazingly good, especialy the game PCB set.

Check out the pics.....

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: WunderCade on August 04, 2007, 06:32:56 pm
WOW. Brilliant Level42.....absolutely brilliant!!!! :cheers:

It's like you're giving birth, man...LOL. ;D :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 04, 2007, 06:40:03 pm
WOW. Brilliant Level42.....absolutely brilliant!!!! :cheers:

It's like you're giving birth, man...LOL. ;D :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
Did you see the video ? :D Thanks !!!!
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 04, 2007, 06:55:29 pm
It's not completely processed at the moment I write this, but a video of actually playing the game should be here soon:

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=e2uZ4J09K-4[/youtube]

Enjoy :) !
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: arcadefever on August 04, 2007, 07:15:43 pm
 :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

i wish i was there when you power it on !!!!

this remind me the day i power my Asteroids for the first time  :angel:

great job !!!!!!!!!!!!

i love the video ...

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: JimmyU on August 04, 2007, 08:21:15 pm
Congratulations.  This game needs to be saved.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 05, 2007, 01:15:49 am
Ahhhh, Asteroids.......definitly one of the top three on my wishlist still ;)

Thanks Fever and JimmyU !!

The link I posted earlier of playing the game (well as much as possible with one hand and holding the camera......) was not working I changed it in that posting, but here it is again:

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=e2uZ4J09K-4[/youtube]

Sorry about the bright light on the right side of the screen. The cab was pretty near a window and it was a very sunny day yesterday. But I guess the video says enough :D

OK, I'm not off to Bruno (Darth Nuno's) lair !!!!
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 06, 2007, 03:34:38 pm
Looking back at a fantastic weekend !

Repairing the wonderful Amplifone saturday and visiting Darh Nuno's lair on sunday !

Bruno, you and your wife were perfect hosts ! You are a collecting giant !!!! Actually playing Computer Space felt scary ! I was afraid to touch it. Lovely cabinet !!
There were just too many games to play !!! :)  I really really liked Starblade and the SW Trilogy. I still didn't give Dragon's Lair a serious try, o well.....next time better :)

Thanks again for a wonderful day, great hospitality and friendliness  !!!  :cheers: :applaud: :notworthy:
I hope to be able to receive you in my gameroom next year !!!!
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: dweebs0r on August 06, 2007, 04:18:44 pm
Wow!!

I am so jealous!  That is awesome.

-D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Havok on August 06, 2007, 04:28:09 pm
Congratulations! Glad to see you brought it back from the dead.

 :applaud:

But, you played the easy level on the video... Pansy...


 ;D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 06, 2007, 05:13:22 pm
Hahaha, remember, I'm just a beginner :)

And also, I was playing single handed, had to hold the camera with my other hand :)

Thanks guys.....I've got to get some new caps for the deflection PCB. And I'm thinking about a better way of providing enough amps on the HV-pcb. Those resistors are waisting energy in heat, there must be a better solution. Maybe I can simply use a switching power supply, but I haven't seen many that can deliver both high amps at + AND -24V.....

To be continued :)

P.S. I guess Chadtower is still recovering from the shock of me getting this beauty back to live ! Before that, we were almost chatting here ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: ChadTower on August 07, 2007, 08:47:09 am
Haven't been paying attention to Projects the last few days... that's awesome.  Great to see that thing running again.

Hard to tell from the pics but if the text lettering is off, but not wavering, I'd guess it's one of two things:  a slight issue with the game PCBs or the convergence on the tube.  Both are a bit of a pain to track down but totally worth doing.  I'd put my task list in this order:

1)  replace the power supply filter cap
2)  cap the monitor
3)  retin the edge connectors on the PCB

If none of those take care of the issue:

4)  repin the harness connectors
5)  reseat the game roms, cleaning legs if necessary

and then if you still have any issues, start debugging the game board itself.

That monitor is spectacular.  Definitely present pics to the Vectorlist for more advice, they're the very best resource on these games.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: RobinHolland on August 07, 2007, 12:34:34 pm
Great that you fix it  :cheers:
I see it soon  ;D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 07, 2007, 02:26:23 pm
Hey Robin, sure thing !!!

Just saw a nice link on the Vector list. If anyone still thinks an oscilloscope can't be used as a vector game monitor, check this out !!!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY_2J3ckCSQ[/youtube]

Pretty cool. Apparantly this has been done by a 15 year old kid, using the stereo outputs of a soundcard...... this could mean a new Mame coming up that doesn't need a Zektor Vector ?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: ChadTower on August 07, 2007, 02:31:16 pm

Saw that this morning... the calculations involved in the rotation of that "helix" shape is very, very impressive.  That is some serious math, using the voltage outputs of the sound card stereo channels as X and Y inputs.

I wonder what ranges he's using.  If it's too far outside of the 12 to -12 range, it will be hard to get it to work on a fixed rate vector monitor.  Of course, if he's good enough to do this, he's good enough to get it working in the proper range for a monitor.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: shardian on August 07, 2007, 02:38:52 pm
Hey Robin, sure thing !!!

Just saw a nice link on the Vector list. If anyone still thinks an oscilloscope can't be used as a vector game monitor, check this out !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY_2J3ckCSQ

Pretty cool. Apparantly this has been done by a 15 year old kid, using the stereo outputs of a soundcard...... this could mean a new Mame coming up that doesn't need a Zektor Vector ?

 :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: That is super kick ass. The graphics that melted into raindrops made my jaw drop.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: ChadTower on August 07, 2007, 02:42:16 pm

Yeah, that gets REALLY good a couple minutes in.  That is definitely the product of greater processing power than was available in 1984 when the original vectors were made.  I'm actually kind of scared at the potential vector graphics would have now if you threw the type of horsepower at it that drives today's refractive reflective realtime texture morphing 3d games.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: mcfreak on August 07, 2007, 03:10:56 pm
Man, that is homepage worthy if anything ever was...
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: ChadTower on August 07, 2007, 04:23:12 pm

Oh my... I may have to play with this when I get back from vacation.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/scopeshapes

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: BrentRadio on August 07, 2007, 05:36:01 pm
I THINK that the screen flicker with the text is normal. Mine does the same thing, and I have had the monitor boards completely rebuilt with new cap and the new flyback.

Anybody know for sure?

Brent
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 07, 2007, 05:42:36 pm
I'll ask this later on the Vector list....

Did you also replace the "Big Blue" in the power supply ?
Could be the problem....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: arcadefever on August 07, 2007, 06:26:58 pm
I'll ask this later on the Vector list....

Did you also replace the "Big Blue" in the power supply ?
Could be the problem....

it could be,
i will just change it... that the first thing i replace in my asteroids  ;D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: BrentRadio on August 08, 2007, 05:22:40 pm
I replaced the big blue and rebuilt the power brick and the ARII board completly. I'm pretty sure the flicker isn't due to that. I think it's normal.

Brent
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 08, 2007, 06:20:29 pm
Mmm, I can't tell, because it's the freaking first time I laid my eyes on SW on a real vector..... :D

I still think it's  a bit strange....Of course, the text requires a lot of calculations and movement of the beam(s)...it could be....maybe I could ask Jed Margolin, after all, he designed the hardware ! :D

I'll still have to recap the deflection PCB, and maybe I'll do the game PCB as well. All these caps are 25 years old now....

If we accept the flickering as normal, there are still some issues:
1) convergence. I'll need to demagnetise. Don't have a demagnetiser, will ask my uncle....
2) geometry. If you look closely at the exploding battlestar on the Youtube video, you can see that the circles are not correct circles but a bit "egg" shaped. Could be a cap thing...
3) the letters show openings etc. Could also be caps. I got a nice list of things to check on the vector list, will work through them and see the results.

Only 2 days of working left and then it's 3 weeks holiday  :cheers: :applaud: First week, I guess I will take at least one full day for working on the Amplifone ! :D

P.S. I just realized that I still have to clean the inside of the bezel AND the CRT front itself !!! Simple as it sounds, I know that this will improve the picture even more :D

Does anybody know a good place to get Low ESR, 105 degree caps ?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 08, 2007, 06:53:35 pm
About the oscilloscope demo:

Take a look what I found on Jed Margolin's site:

QUOTE:
It might be interesting to program a PC to take the inputs from the sound card and display them on the screen in XY mode. Then connect the channels to an stereo FM radio and tune across the dial.

It might also be interesting to program Lissajous figures and play them through the sound card.

And, finally, even today with all the sophisticated graphics that people do, Lissajous Figures are still compelling to look at.

Run the program in full-screen mode with the lights out and you will see why.
 

Jed Margolin
San Jose, CA
May 23, 2001


UNQUOTE

So, this is a pretty old idea, and this comes from the man who designed vector hardware for Atari !!!

Check out the page where this came from:
http://www.jmargolin.com/mtest/LJfigs.htm

He even wrote a program that creates these figures....you can find it on that page...

...... :applaud: :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: lettuce on August 09, 2007, 05:49:36 pm
Does the game PCB still have the high scores saved on it?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 09, 2007, 06:31:25 pm
Yeah, good question, it crossed my mind a couple of times but still forgot to check:

In the beginning of the second video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=e2uZ4J09K-4) you can see the high score table. I had looked at it when I first started the machine, and thought that at least the top three were not real high scores, since clearly they are OBI, WAN and HAN. THe other one
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 09, 2007, 06:52:55 pm
continued.....

The other one could be real I thought at that time. I had clearly overseen that JED was listed on position 6 !!
I bet all the others are Atari employees who worked on the project (or only test-played the game).....nice :) !

I just checked it with the operation manual, and indeed it shows the exact same table as in the manual so the answer is no, the novram didn't save the high scores.

Not a big wonder after 8 years of unpowered storage, and who knows how much longer...(should I complain with Atari ? ;););))

I probably didn't score enough in my testing to get listed. I was focussing on the monitor much more than on the gameplay...

However I can test the novram from the set-up menu. WIll do so next saturday and let you know.....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 11, 2007, 10:12:13 am
Working on the PCB's now....

I discovered that the cooling gel under the big deflection transistors is very dried out and not forming a complete "film" anymore. Gotta fix that before running the game for longer periods....need new mica plates for that...

I also discovered that I have a damaged trace on the vector PCB ! I know where it runs between....gotta check what it's for.... and fix it :)
Amazing, cause the PCB's look so good otherwise. The only thing of concern is that the Texas Instruments speech chip has REALLY corroded pins....I guess Texas is not the best place to produce electronics parts ? ;)

I've been doing more surfing and find more and more great info. Check out www.ataricade.com...great site with lots of info....

On one of the news pages I found a link to a guy who simply decided to turn a regular Happ arcade monitor into a vector.....the only real difference apart from the controlling PCB's is the yoke. So he "simply" hand-wound a brand new one !!!!!!!
Check it out: http://www.jrok.com/xfer/xystuff/    This is  :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: lettuce on August 11, 2007, 11:18:11 am
I just checked it with the operation manual, and indeed it shows the exact same table as in the manual so the answer is no, the novram didn't save the high scores.

Thats a shame. I remember probably one of the last times i went on holiday with my parents i came across a Starwars machine, and it having my brother initals at the top of the table, which he must of entered 5-8 years before, so if anybody see's CBL on any tables thats more than likly my bro's. Im based in the UK though, so unless any found there way over to other countires then you probably wont see any, and it the systems been powered off for long periods of time it looks like they dont get stored  :cry:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 11, 2007, 03:27:59 pm
It could very well be that my novram is defective. Not sure, I still gotta check. If so, I'm not sure if I will replace it, since the SW/ESB multi game kit has it's own (improved) way of storing high scores.

The original novram only stores the top 3 records by the way, the others get deleted when the unit is powered off.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: spocktwin on August 11, 2007, 05:57:42 pm
 :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
lettuce I absolutely peed myself when I saw your avatar......where in the star trek universe did you get it???
Spock
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: BrentRadio on August 11, 2007, 06:53:51 pm
If anybody does need the NOVRAM you can get it at arcadechips.com

Brent
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: lettuce on August 12, 2007, 05:23:38 am
:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
lettuce I absolutely peed myself when I saw your avatar......where in the star trek universe did you get it???
Spock

Yeah made me chuckle the first time i saw it, cant remember where i got it from, had it for ages
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 12, 2007, 02:03:20 pm
Deflection board work:

1) Dried out gel under the deflection transistors....this is not good !!!
2) this is not good at all  ::)
3) Take a look at the closest side of the PCB, that's where the deflection transistors are. Look at how black the PCB has become because of the heat.....I guess the heat is not going well into the cooling body, although it does get quite hot when running....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 12, 2007, 02:10:37 pm
1) Molex PCB connector solderings......these have been transfering some current. You can easily see which have had the most load on them....

2) Poor solderings, especialy in the center of the pic. This pic shows the original solderings. However, this is caused by too small soldering islands IMHO. I couldn't get them much better....

3) Compare side to side. One is renewed, the other original.... I completely removed the old solder before applying new.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 12, 2007, 02:14:45 pm
1) Transistor removed.....look at how black the cooling body is under the transistor, but this time it's ment to be black. The rest of the cooling body seems to have lost it's black paint. You can guess why......HEAT !!!

2) Cleaned wires and molex connector (outside). I hate handling dirty cables......

Anybody has a good way of cleaning the pin's inside the molex connector ? They look pretty good, but I guess they could use a rub......
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 12, 2007, 02:18:33 pm
PCB trace damage !!!

I wonder what this is causing on the screen. It's on the Vector generator PCB. Carries signal Z0. Has something to do with blanking, could be a cause of the not completely correct drawing of the lines.....

I soldered two wires to each side so I can bridge and open it at will.....I know stupid, but I'd like to see what effect this line has....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: telengard on August 12, 2007, 04:13:23 pm
First power up (not really, but I was too concerned with other things during the REAL first start-up, AND more excited :P)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz5BumhBJ_4


I would like to thank Mark Shostak from Cinelabs for making this repair possible. Without his efforts in getting these replacement HVT's build, this would be one dead game. Also, he is great in his support through mail and very helpful: a big round of  :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :cheers: :cheers: and of course:  :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:  www.cinelabs.com

Also thanks to Micheal Kelley, who wrote the fantastic Amplifone FAQ doc. It has helped me A LOT in understanding the problems on the HV PCB and everything else. Again:  :applaud: :applaud: :cheers: :cheers: :notworthy: :notworthy:



Wow, I sooo want a SW cockpit.  I just don't have the room (yet).   :(    :hissy:

Do you have the fresnel lens in the front?  I went to funspot a few weeks ago and the SW cockpit was MIA.  More booooo...

Great job on getting your cockpit working.  One more game back to life.

~telengard
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 12, 2007, 04:18:02 pm
Hey Telengard, thanks !

Don't have the room ? I don't either (yet) but it's not like you have an option if an ultra rare cab comes along like that :)

What fresnel lens are you talking about ? I don't think this uses any...?

I've been to funspot and I actualy can't remember that they had a SW cockpit. I did see the Red Baron though and it was out of order at the time (which was a shame really). What does MIA stand for ? Sorry, I'm Dutch :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: telengard on August 12, 2007, 04:36:32 pm
Hey Telengard, thanks !

Don't have the room ? I don't either (yet) but it's not like you have an option if an ultra rare cab comes along like that :)

What fresnel lens are you talking about ? I don't think this uses any...?

I've been to funspot and I actualy can't remember that they had a SW cockpit. I did see the Red Baron though and it was out of order at the time (which was a shame really). What does MIA stand for ? Sorry, I'm Dutch :)

Hehe yeah, I've dropped hints about using space in the living room for either a SW cockpit or Pole Position cockpit.  So far no bites.    :)
I did get the green light for utilizing the space if I pick up her favorite pinball.  So I'm getting *somewhere*.

Yeah they used to have a SW cockpit, not sure what they did with it.  I couldn't find it and I looked pretty well.  They still have the stand up though.  I think they are going to be expanding.  When I was last there, there were a bunch of new games in the miniature golf area.  Dragon's Lair, Space Ace, etc.  I sense a new wing being built in the classic arcade game museum!

MIA means "missing in action".     :hissy:   I was so bummed.  I really like playing the game in the cockpit.  Someday I hope they pick up a DOT environmental.  That's one I haven't played in a LONG time.

If I remember correctly some of the SW cockpits had what's called a fresnel lens for the front glass.  It makes the image look *way* bigger.  I may be mistaking this with some other cockpit game though.  It also might not be needed when a 23" monitor is used.  A SW cockpit expert hopefully will chime in.

~telengard

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 12, 2007, 04:50:43 pm
I hope Funspot will be expanding, that would be very good news ! When we visited the mini-golf area was closed, but we were there just after the end of the US holiday season.

Maybe they didn't think the SW could be repaired ?? Yikes, lets hope they didn't trash it ;)

Should we mail them about it ?

Hey, start with that pinball, then she gets used to it and it will be easier from there. I started with my Mame cab, still in my living room, the wife just played a round of Puzzle Bobble :)

Galaxian is in the kitchen, Centipede and MB in the shed....SW at my friend's, Domino's and Pleiads cocktail in the attick........I need a game room !!!!!

Aren't you mistaking with Starblade ? I think this has a lens/mirror like you describe. I have never played that game until I visited Darth Nuno's lair one week ago. What a great game, and what a fantastic cab that is :) !!!!!
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: arcadefever on August 12, 2007, 05:02:26 pm
great restoration  :cheers:

are you going to change the transistors (2n3792)? you should  ;)



Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 12, 2007, 05:36:38 pm
Incidently, I asked the same question on the vector-list:

Why ?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: arcadefever on August 12, 2007, 05:56:21 pm
Incidently, I asked the same question on the vector-list:

Why ?

well, they have been there for quite long  :P and getting a bit tired too  ;D
have you read this ???

http://www.vectorlist.org/Documents/bw_vector_monitor_faq.pdf

help me a lot while restoring asteroids ...

 ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 14, 2007, 05:17:45 am
Thanks fever, I've read most of it, does it somewhere say that transistors go bad in time ?

I agree that they are pretty much loaded of course....I guess I will replace them, since I'll have to remove each one to re-do the cooling stuff/or use silicon pads...

In the meantime, if anyone is looking for a really nice SW CP:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Star-Wars-Cockpit-Arcade-Video-Game-Atari-1983-coin-op_W0QQitemZ280142984291QQihZ018QQcategoryZ13716QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Looks great. Again it is mentioned that "normaly" they came with a 19", but that a "few" were built with 25". This one is another 25", and so I still stick to my opinion that the SW Cockpits were equipped with 25" only.

O well....nice cab, Wintron HVT installed and running....bit pricy though :) I made a serious bargain on mine :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: JimmyU on August 14, 2007, 09:52:55 am
I heard that a Cockpit just went for $7100. :dizzy: :dizzy:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 14, 2007, 10:13:00 am
Ok.

Been working on the cab....

I've got good news and bad news.

The good news is that the NOVRAM tested ok in the setup/test menu.All the other tests ran fine, apart from the raster test which seems to be overloading the monitor a bit (still have to re-cap the deflection board).
Also I managed increasing the size of the picture quite a bit ! And I managed to get rid of the poor linearity as well.  It looks really impressive, especialy the deathstar blow up :D

I checked the High Voltage and it was lower than what it should be. So I carefully increased it to the required 19,5 kV. When I took a look at the screen I could see retrace lines in the center, so I quickly turned the HV back to the original level. It looks fine that way, and it's safe :) I also tried to up it to the max for a second or 3, and it never reached the 25 kV that is needed to kick in the HV overvoltage protection. So I can safely play without being X-rayed.....

I fired the PCB up with the jumper wire that I created to repair the broken trace on the vector PCB. When I opened it, I got a lot of (quite interesting) retrace lines......so obviously I had managed to create that broken trace myself  :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:. Anyway, easy fix, and it worked great for quite some time.....

The bad news is, that while trying to set a record to see if the NOVRAM really still works,something went wrong on the vector PCB....

All of a sudden, the Star Wars logo was screwed. I switched to set-up and ran the hardware tests (I had run them without errors before). I got an error on VG (Vector Graphics) RAMS at 4P and ROM at 1L   with some hex code..... :'(

I tried reseating the indicated chips, cleaned the pins, no improvement. The game actualy still plays, but the fireballs look wrong, there's only partly text on the death star and the worst thing, the game crashes when going into the deatstar level for the 2nd time. Must be the vector generator being confused by the bad data from the RAM/ROM.....

SOoooooooo, I'm heading to the electronics parts store, get some new, wire wound chip sockets and check the traces.....

I think it's strange that it's indicating both a bad ROM AND a bad RAM all at the same time. Gotta check the schematics if there's some driver IC or anything that could also be faulty...
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Kaytrim on August 14, 2007, 10:46:45 am
Keep at it man, you will get this think working perfectly in no time.  :applaud:

TTFN
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 14, 2007, 12:30:16 pm
Thanks for the encouragement Kaytrim, that keeps me going :)  I'm pretty sure I will :D

I just had the simple idea of moving the suspect RAM chip to another position (4M) and the one at 4M to 4L of course. Sure enough, the problem moved to 4M according to the self-test. I ran the game, looked good, no problems at all.....until I reached a level I had never reached before in the trench, where the blocks are left and right also. There it ran into some trouble... guess 4M is higher up in the memory table, or something like that.

Anyway, there was no more ROM error, so it's just this single RAM chip that has gone to the eternal bit fields......

I've searched and it seems that 5116's can replace these Toshiba TMM2016 RAMs. They are available from arcadechips and probably even local...
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 14, 2007, 12:42:21 pm
O I forgot. The set-up has some very extensive info about playing times etc. I guess this info is stored in the NOVRAM. The data in there is correct. The total games match the number on the real coin counter. Funny: people always seem to use the left coin mech, very rarely the right. The right was only used 373 times (of which probably 40 by me). The left almost got all the coins !

So I guess this proves the NOVRAM is still OK and saved it's data until this very day !

The fact that there are no hi-scores other than the default in the top 3 can have 2 reasons:
1) at some point, they were deleted through the set-up menu
2) the default scores were never broken

My bet is option 2) :D :D

I managed to score just into the 1.000.000 points, but just not enough to get position 3  ::)
But hey, it was only my 20th game or so....

I am now being bugged by the fact that I cannot remove the screen in front of the CRT, because one of the inbus bolts is really worn out.....gotta find a screwdriver that fits exactly to force it :S

The convergence of the blue gun is really pretty poor on the lower left corner, which is a shame really because otherwise the picture is so great. I don't think I'm going to mess with the convergence though.....I've tried it on a TV-set onece and ....well let's say the results could be called "interesting"  :D

I may ask my uncle who has been a TV repair man for ages...or maybe I can play around with some of those magnet strips that they glue on the tube ? I doubt that degaussing will fix this...
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 14, 2007, 06:14:44 pm
Some more pics:

Cleaning of the PCB edge connectors with a simple pencil eraser:

1) Before
2) After
3) Before
4) After

Now I need a simple way to clean the contacts of the harness connectors, any tips ?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 14, 2007, 06:35:51 pm
I could hardly get myself to do some work instead of playing :D

I couldn't remove the worn out bolt, guess I will have to drill it out or something.....

So I went on to remove the PCB cage and the Power Supply.

Looks like the power supply has had the worst things happening to this cab:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 14, 2007, 06:45:50 pm
1) The "Big Blue" is a "Big Gray" on this PSU.
2) It's surprising how much better the underside looks !!!

Anyway, I guess this will get about the same treatment as Brantradio did :) Any tips ?

3) the fan that is factory mounted under the game PCB's. It feels really powerless and is really noisy. This one is not going to be put back in the cab. Regretfully it's 110 VAC  :banghead: That's a bit weird for a cab that comes from Ireland and was meant for the European market....but I guess it's just because they designed it this way.....
I have the option of either getting a 230VAC replacement here and wire it to the marquee lighting wiring or getting a 110VAC from the US....

It's also weird they put on a finger guard. Think about it, here's a cab fully open, 20.000 Volts and even worse, mains voltages all around, and they get scared of some technician sticking his finger into this fan (which probably would hurt the fan a lot more than the finger).......
Anyway, this will also be not going back inside.....it blocks airflow without point....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 14, 2007, 06:50:30 pm
Uploading some new video stuff I shot in the dark.....that's when a vector REALLY gets to life :)

Here's the first, just to get an idea how sharp the picture still looks...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j0z5AhFdZY[/youtube]
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: telengard on August 15, 2007, 12:12:42 pm
Looks awesome.  Was hoping to see the Death Star exploding though.   :)   8)

That is one of my favorite things.  Just an awesome thing to see.  I'm willing to be I'm not alone.    :notworthy:

~telengard
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 15, 2007, 12:17:31 pm
Your wish is my command:

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=l4fg9lUKWAE[/youtube]

However, this is lower quality than the other one, because Youtube complained it was too big.....if somebody has about 180 Mb webspace for me, I could post the full AVI there....

I also made a really long vid of all the set-up and test screens....Have to upload this later....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: telengard on August 15, 2007, 12:35:13 pm
Your wish is my command:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=l4fg9lUKWAE

However, this is lower quality than the other one, because Youtube complained it was too big.....if somebody has about 180 Mb webspace for me, I could post the full AVI there....

I also made a really long vid of all the set-up and test screens....Have to upload this later....

 :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :notworthy:

That never gets old!   Thanks.

~telengard
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 15, 2007, 01:35:27 pm
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvaSxKpfMzM[/youtube]

This is a rather long video with all the set-up and test screens.....boring, and to top it off you get my "funny" comments  :D :D

Do you guys understand what I'm saying or is my Dutch accent too much ;) :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: telengard on August 15, 2007, 01:52:29 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvaSxKpfMzM

This is a rather long video with all the set-up and test screens.....boring, and to top it off you get my "funny" comments  :D :D

Do you guys understand what I'm saying or is my Dutch accent too much ;) :D

Nope can understand you just fine.  "Bah missed the exhaust port".  hehe   :)

BTW Is your handle based on the band from the 80s?

~telengard
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 15, 2007, 02:21:56 pm
Yep it sure is ! Still a big fan :D 

http://www.level42.com/shop/recording.asp?recid=32


Go to  at least 2 gigs each year. We even go to the UK regularly for gigs. My son is called Mark after mister King himself :D (They wouldn't accept Atari :P)

Maybe daddy is stuck in the 80's :D

I even still got my 80's Ray-Ban  8) that is VERY fashionable again now  :laugh:

I wear my ray-bans, driving in the car
Even on a cloudy day
She always says "Man , who d'you think you are?"
'cause she don't see it my way
We are all sleepwalkers
We only see the things we wanna see
Tunnel visions
And there's no end in sight

From Sleepwalkers-Level 42
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: telengard on August 15, 2007, 02:35:36 pm
Yep it sure is ! Still a big fan :D 

http://www.level42.com/shop/recording.asp?recid=32


Go to  at least 2 gigs each year. We even go to the UK regularly for gigs. My son is called Mark after mister King himself :D (They wouldn't accept Atari :P)

Maybe daddy is stuck in the 80's :D

I even still got my 80's Ray-Ban  8) that is VERY fashionable again now  :laugh:

"I wear my Ray-Ban's, driving in my car,
even on a cloudy day,
she always says "Man, no matter where you are, you're always miles away"
We are all sleepwalkers, we only see the things we want to see,
tunnel visions, but maybe there's an end in sight"

From Sleepwalkers-Level 42


Yep it does sound like Daddy is stuck in the 80s.    :)

I'm a big fan of 80s music too.  I play guitar in a 80s new wave cover band.  We should do "Something About You".    :cheers:

Keep up the great work restoring the SW...

All these restorations are inspiring (SW cockpit, DK, etc)

~telengard
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 15, 2007, 02:40:53 pm
Something about you was the biggest hit in the US I guess. It's the best "commercial" song from them IMHO.

They never really broke through in the US because of the separated  (to put it nicely) radio stations...
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 16, 2007, 11:11:01 am
OK, back on topic:

In case anybody ever needs an exact replacement fan, this is the one used in my SW CP:
Rotron "Whisper" WR2M1 115VAC 50/60 Hz.
http://www.comairrotron.com/cgi-bin/acfandatasht.pl?Pnum=028291&VoltList=115v&FreqList=60hz&airflow_val=&airflow_unit=CFM&pressure_val=&pressure_unit=inh2o&diameter_val=&diameter_unit=in
If you want to use something else, take one that can handle 66 CFM, that's about 112 m3/h for us Europeans....

I've examined it a bit further. I wondered if the noise was coming from the fan itself or the way it's mounted. I needed to use 115 VAC to hook it up, and at home, the 230VAC to 115VAC transformer that is doing nothing now in my Galaxian cab now proved it's value :)

When I hooked it up and held it in my hands, it was really quite silent (as the name implies). Then I put it against the inner side of the cab and yes, that makes one great "speaker box" :) The noise increased immensely. The fan is mounted on a metal bracket with screws and this is then slid into a (wooden) support that is mounted on the side panel of the SW cab. Now, of course, in an arcade surrounding, no-one cares about this, you probably don't hear it. Anyway, I will look for some (PC case mod) rubber supports or something like that to mount it, because the sound IS annoying in a regular (game)room.

Despite what I though before, I will use it again, I've cleaned it, and I have to say the build quality seems pretty good.

Now the weird thing: I discovered why I thought it wasn't moving much air when it still was mounted in the SW:
This fan is mounted _under_ the metal cage that is holding the PCB's and ATRII. The fingerguard is on the up side, there where you would expect a hand/finger to go in.... So I held my hand there and noticed the low airflow (at least I thought). However, the other side was really blowing powerfully.....
I had expected this fan to be blowing up, towards the PCB's, and in support of the natural hot air flow....instead it is trying to pull the hot air down...... I think this is really strange !!!

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=68094.0;attach=79277;image)

Unless they tried to cool the "power brick" that is mounted on the bottom, but the fan is way too much backwards, so it's missing it's goal for that.

I think that mainly what the goal of this fan is to get some air circulation at all inside this rather small space with all kinds of parts getting pretty hot. I still would have mounted it the other way around though.....just my thoughts....


Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 16, 2007, 06:01:01 pm
http://cgi.ebay.com/Atari-Star-Wars-Arcade-Video-Game-Project_W0QQitemZ150151915888QQihZ005QQcategoryZ13716QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


"Just" needs a monitor.... ::)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: polaris on August 16, 2007, 06:52:13 pm
http://cgi.ebay.com/Atari-Star-Wars-Arcade-Video-Game-Project_W0QQitemZ150151915888QQihZ005QQcategoryZ13716QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


"Just" needs a monitor.... ::)
and pcb's

theres one in the uk for £620 mamed and ready to go :cry:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 17, 2007, 01:30:53 am
Seeing all the stuff and prices on e-bay, I can only say I got a serious good deal on my cab....

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 17, 2007, 05:33:54 pm
&sp&pJust a minor update....

1) Cleaned PCB cage

2) Cleaned FAN.......

In case anyone needs it, I figured out all the electrolytic caps on the SW PCB set.

Here ya go:
Star Wars Vector Generator PCB:      
100uF 35V   C43,C81,C77,C46   4   
22uF   25V   C45,C48                   2   
   
Sound PCB:
100uF 35V   C13,14,15,47,53   5
10UF   35V   C51,52                   2   
   
Main PCB:
4,7uF  50V   C94                           1   
100uF 50V   C49,50,51           3   
10uF;  35V   C93                           1   
NO GUARANTEES HERE !


Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 17, 2007, 06:54:35 pm
By the way, on http://www.jammaplus.co.uk/ there is also a thread about a SW CP restoration......I saw this picture there. Since I haven't opened up my speaker yet, I was a bit amazed to see that these speakers are very simple single cone one's:
(http://www.jammaplus.co.uk/forum/uploads/river9999uk/2007-07-08_211012_sw2.jpg)

Some of you may remember the sound system I managed to squeeze in my Mame cab (man gotta dig up an OLD thread:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=42798.0)

soooooooo, I instantly thought about how the SW would sound using proper car speakers with separate tweeters/mids/woofers......  ;D ;D Maybe add some sub-woofer as well  8) :D :D :D :D (the perfect spot for that would probably the place you put your *ss on while playing  :laugh:).

Don't get me wrong, the sound of the original speakers is not poor. The magnets look pretty big (don't know about the weight though) and these are not the worst kind of speakers. Yet I wonder what it would sound like with some serious audio equipment.....

Makes me remembering the first time I hooked up my Atari 600XL to my home stereo audio system, man did I love the bass in Donkey Kong !!! It sounded great. And that 600XL only has one Pokey, where the SW has four and of course the famous TI speech synth :D

Does anybody know how much audio power an ATRII can handle ;)

This is not on the top of my list, but it all just crossed my mind  :laugh:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 18, 2007, 03:44:35 pm
OK, did some last work before heading off for a well deserved holiday with sun,beach, booze and......my wife  ::)

Succeeded in getting the worn out bolt loose by using my Dremel, made a nice slid for a screwdriver with it in the bolt head, worked great. Opened the panels, everything needs some cleaning of course. Take some good shots of the cardboard bezel inside. The screen has some burn-in. Not surprising, but it's much less than I had expected. The screen is SO dirty, but I forgot to bring my cleaning stuff  :banghead:

Some interesting/annoying thing: I had already seen it but now it got clear what it was....the plexi in front of the screen showed some darker spots. They were like speckles a bit. It now turns out that the builders at te Tipperary factory were obviously not very careful when spray-painting => They have hit the inside of the plexi with some black spray paint !!!  I can see a perfect clean/clear area AROUND where the plastic bezel is, but where the plexi is "open" there's spray all over !!! :banghead: :dunno

Going to have to replace that plexi for sure, guess it will become glass.....

I also checked out the speakers behind the marquee. The marquee is glass with vinyl sticker on top. It is in very nice condition. I removed 1 speaker to feel the weight. They feel very light, means there is no serious magnet inside. I guess this confirmed that I am going to be replacing them at some point in time.....

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 18, 2007, 04:03:02 pm
Guys, do we all have women that load up WAY too much stuff as luggage ???  :banghead: :badmood: :cry: :dunno



Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 18, 2007, 04:04:46 pm
More pics of the bezel....needs some repair
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: ChadTower on August 20, 2007, 10:16:34 am

Back after a while off the boards... this thread makes me happy.

Keep it up, bro. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: blueznl on August 21, 2007, 02:16:43 pm
Guys, do we all have women that load up WAY too much stuff as luggage ???  :banghead: :badmood: :cry: :dunno

My solution:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~bluez/other/real7.htm#top

 ;D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: BrentRadio on August 21, 2007, 04:56:22 pm
I never realized the bezel was so deep. How far back is the monitor from the smoked glass?

Do you have any pics of your game with the glass removed and the bezel still in it?

If you could zip up any and all pics you have taken and send them to me that would be great.

Thanks,

Brent
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 23, 2007, 06:19:23 am
Hi guys,

Thanks all !!

Witing this on the sunny isle of Lanzarote....just catching up on the internet.

The monitor is quite far back. It has to be, since the large plastic bezel else would cover some of the picture. My camera lost power when I was overthere while removing the stuff. I also wanted to make a pic of the screenburn.....anyway I will follow up as soon as I´m back home, but that will be at least a week still......heading back to my cocktail and sunny spot near the swimming pool  :cheers:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: TheDriver on August 23, 2007, 06:40:23 am
Cab looks great, very jealous because I do not have the space for something like this! Look's minted. :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 30, 2007, 04:14:19 pm
Cab looks great, very jealous because I do not have the space for something like this! Look's minted. :)
Thanks driver....I actually still have no space for it yet as well, it's still at a friend's shed.... :S


Just a quick note that I'm back from holiday in cold and cloudy Holland......

O well, Lanzarote is great, as long as you keep away from the really tourist places :P But then again, there were quite a number of "arcades" on those tourist spots :)
Pics later...

I received an e-mail from Jed Margolin, one of the creators of SW. I quote most of the e-mail here. My questions are in italics, Jed's answers in normal font. Interesting stuff, and amazing that he was so nice to answer my questions about a game he (amongst others of course) created over 25 ago :D

QUOTE:____________________________________________________

However, there are still some issues with the picture, convergence (just a
bit on the lower side) and f.i. the letters sometimes seem to have open ends
etc...
.
I guess most of this is simply a matter of replacing electrolytic
caps and checking solderings and connections.

It could be the integration capacitors in the Vector Generator. Make sure to
use the correct type of capacitor. (I think they are polypropylene.)

It could also be a misadjustment of the BIP (BiPolar) controls which
controls the offset current into the integrators.


But what I was wondering about is that when there is a lot of text on the
screen, the picture starts to flicker. Is this a problem, or is this normal
? I figure that all that text needs a lot of calculation and movement of the
beam(s) and this could be causing it....


Yes, it is normal for the screen to flicker when there is a lot of text on
the screen during attract mode when it presents the storyline.

The choice was to either put all the text on the screen and have it flicker
or put less text on the screen and not have it flicker.

The amount of time it takes to draw a vector has two parts. One is
determined by the length of the vector. The other is the overhead required
by the Vector Generator to set up the vector. Therefore, it takes longer to
draw lots of short vectors than it would to draw fewer but longer vectors
where the sum total of the vector lengths is the same.


END QUOTE
_____________________________________________

For those who send me questions/PM's, I hope to respond ASAP....





Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 30, 2007, 04:16:08 pm

Back after a while off the boards... this thread makes me happy.

Keep it up, bro. 
Hi Chad,

Glad about that :) I'll keep it up :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on September 03, 2007, 02:58:44 pm
Does anybody have an idea how to get rid of (really old) spray paint on plexiglass without hurting it ?

Thanks !
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Pixelhugger on September 03, 2007, 03:08:19 pm
I've used those pure orange oil based "Citrisolve" type household cleaners to "dissolve" dried paint on old wood floors. I doubt it would react with the acrylic.... though you'd want to test that first.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 06, 2007, 02:05:37 pm
Thanks Pixelhugger, but for some €14,- I bought a brand new piece of perspex.:)

New RAM chips from arcadechips.com have arrived.

Parts from Bob Roberts should arrive any day now (thanks ArcadeFever !), including an Amplifone rebuild-kit (caps & transistors), ARII rebuild kit and Power Supply  rebuild kit, incl. Big Blue...

More soon...
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: rovingmind on October 09, 2007, 11:17:53 am
For those of us aspiring to construct our own machines, any chance of getting some dimensions of those bezel panels and width of the silver stripes?  It would be greatly appreciated and save much trial and error.

More pics of the bezel....needs some repair
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 11, 2007, 02:09:02 am
Sure....hope to have some time this weekend...
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: rovingmind on October 11, 2007, 10:08:16 am
thank you
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 13, 2007, 12:29:21 pm
I was thinking, instead of just measuring would scanning be better ?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 13, 2007, 06:31:19 pm
Worked on the AR2 board yesterday. Did I mention it's a very wise thing to make pictures all the time....it actualy saved me from a big mistake this time !!

See if you can find it :)

1) Bob Roberts' kit (thanks for the help Arcadefever !). The - indication on some of those caps were missing arrows, so what's the point on axial caps to have them ? Luckely the + is also indicated by the small dent on one side....

I decided to do the caps only and keep the active parts as spare. Also I think it's strange that the kits don't include thermal pads/mica for the transistors and regulators. Only  2 of them on this PCB.....

2) Before. Nichicon caps, a very well known brand, good quality

3) After. Xicon caps, never heared off......hope they're OK......did you spot the error ?

I really only noticed my mistake after looking at the pictures !!!

Bottom line, double, no triple check !!!!

O yeah, and I resoldered all the important solderings (connectors, big resistors etc.)

I didn't do a sense mod. It seems to work fine as it is (was)........should I do it anyway or not ?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: arcadefever on October 13, 2007, 06:58:28 pm
the 2 caps on the left,  both are mounted the same way  ;)

one should be + up the other one + down something like that  ;D

something that i notice, Bob Roberts does not include the 2 big black capacitors on the deflection board (for the b&w) vector monitor...

does the SW need it ? you may need to order 2  :P

talking about that one:

(http://therealbobroberts.net/6800-50.jpg)

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: rovingmind on October 13, 2007, 10:05:24 pm
I was thinking, instead of just measuring would scanning be better ?

either way would be fine, If there is a curve to it than scanning would be better, with a dimension on there as reference
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 14, 2007, 04:37:11 am
the 2 caps on the left,  both are mounted the same way  ;)

one should be + up the other one + down something like that  ;D

something that i notice, Bob Roberts does not include the 2 big black capacitors on the deflection board (for the b&w) vector monitor...

does the SW need it ? you may need to order 2  :P

talking about that one:

(http://therealbobroberts.net/6800-50.jpg)


And the price goes to Arcadefever ! I guess I got confused because on of those caps, the + is connected to the big common lead on the PCB. So you kinda automaticaly expect the - to go there, but this cap is for the -22V section, so it figures the + is on the common.............duh ! I am embarrassed....

And about the 2 caps.....no I won't be needing them. I didn't work on re-capping the deflection PCB yet, but as far as I looked at the cap-kit everything's there :) !
Thanks for thinking along though !! Merci beaucoup ;)  ! (I noticed you post in French on Gamoover ;))
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 14, 2007, 06:36:38 am
My Power Brick "restoration". It doesn't come close to Brentradio's fabulous work, but at least it's clean now, and all the important parts have been replaced: "Big Blue", diode bridge, Fuse block and clamps.

1) The European/Irish Big Blue is actually grey and a lot smaller than Bob Roberts' replacement. I think it's smaller than the US version I've seen as well (on pics) but not sure about that.The original is at 16V only, Bobs' is at 25V so that could explain the size difference. The really great thing about Bob's "Big Blue's" is that they are newly manufactured. Lots of other sellers sell old stock. There's a good chance that a cap that has been in storage for let's say 10 years, is WORSE than the one that has been in use in the power brick for 25 years....

2) The old fuse block and fuses. Definitely needed to be replaced, amazing it worked anyway !

3) and the new one installed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 14, 2007, 06:40:16 am
I had ordered the "full kit" , this includes a mains cable. Of course I knew there would be a US mains connector on it, but I wanted a completely new cord as the original is pretty bad. Just still have to go get a European plug, amazingly I had none in my stuff.....so I cut up a European mains wire and tied the two together, just for the testing of course.


Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 14, 2007, 06:43:06 am
Finished. It doesn't look as sexy as Brentradio's work, but it will have to do....

I tested all voltages, unloaded. The 10,6 V shows at 14,95V but I guess that's because it's unloaded. All AC voltages are OK too.

I had to bridge the connector going to the power supply to test it out of the cab....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 14, 2007, 06:49:12 am
Sidenote: I had ordered two capkits for the Power Brick and the AR2 because both are also in my Centipede cab, and I want to do those as well.

The strange thing is that one kit included a lot of loose fuses, the other a separate bag with fuses. There were a lot of wrong values. Most of them are 20A, of which you only need 1 on each power brick. There was also a 3A fuse, which is not used on any version of the power brick.

Also, but that's not really Bob's fault, there are 7A fuses included for F1, the mains fuse. The European (220/240VAC) version needs a 4A. I left the original where it was...just something to keep in mind :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 20, 2007, 03:17:15 pm
Ah, what a great day !

Had a whole afternoon to work on my SW :)

Re-installed the Power Brick and ARII (and the PCB set of course). Game powered up normaly and played great. Checked voltages, had to increase the 5V on the ARII a bit, because it was now loaded of course. Glad everything worked OK.

Pics:

1) EVERYBODY loves a SW cockpit :) (Not my cat, just a regular visitor at the place where it's stored now)

2) Replaced one of the VECTOR-rams with the new one from www.arcadechips.com. There were no errors on start-up so it passed the tests. Works great. I first wanted to change all the RAMs in one go, but then I thought......I'll keep the other 5 Sharp's as spare :) The hardware test was also passed during the set-up screens....nice !!!! Thank you arcadechips.com !!!!

3) I adjusted the pots on the vector PCB to get the best picture. This is the best I can get. This picture is red and blue beam only. You can clearly see the convergence problem, especialy on the lower left corner.
Also, I wonder what is causing the pincushion. There are no pots for pincushion (which figures on a vector) but obviously this is not OK. I hope that it's caused by a cap on the deflection board. This is next up for the cap-kit job....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 20, 2007, 03:25:41 pm
1) Again, same test-screen but now with all three beams active...
2) Think I didn't put up a pick of the marquee yet. This is the Irish one, it's a vinyl on top of the glass. Looks almost perfect. There's a small damage on the S and a small spot on the right, otherwise 100%
3) Put in the brand new Perspex I bought (also see my Galaxian No.815 thread). This is thinner than the original, but about as dark. The plus is that it is gray, so no color. The original is bronze tinted, which I don't like personaly.  Some may remember that the original plexi was covered with black-spray paint speckles (most likely from the factory !). THe new one looks brilliant !!!
I can't tell you the difference, this picture is not showing 10% of the real thing, colors are much richer...
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Kaytrim on October 20, 2007, 03:29:33 pm
Looking good with all the baby steps an' all.  I just love to see these old classics brought back to life.

TTFN
Kaytrim
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 20, 2007, 03:46:02 pm
Thanks Kaytrim !!

It's so amazing how addictive this game is......I got a little better already ! I finaly succeeded in registering my initials into the Novram (place 3, but it's a start !!!) That was the first time a high-score was written into it's memory, about time after 24 years  :laugh2: :laugh2:

There's one more technical problem I noticed: only the left audio channel works. Both on the speakers behind me and the one's in the seat. I measured the AC output on the ARII and both outputs seem to be putting out about the same voltages. So I guess it's a wiring problem somewhere. I have also exchanged the speakers in the backside, and both speakers are fine.

Further, I examined the plexi's on the top. Both are also 3 mm thick (like the new one I got for the monitor). The top-most is a simple rectangular sheet. The back one is simply the same, but of course there are two bends made in it. I am pretty confident that the company where I got my plexi (http://www.stoutperspex.nl) can easily recreate the back sheet. Both plexi's are pretty much scratched and there are the obvious cigarette burns/melts. Also, I think grey would look MUCH better than the bronze that is has now........it fits better to the black paint IMHO.

Has anyone with a Cockpit ever removed the the complete top ? I am asking because I am thinking of getting all my cabs in my attic, but I can't get it there in one piece. Removing the top would probably make it fit through the window in the roof....


[Edit] I just looked at Stout's website, they can do anything you can imagine with the plexi. Just to name one: Computer controlled oven for bending...... think that would do the job fine :P
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: polaris on October 20, 2007, 04:58:25 pm
the way you're picking up cabs id think less about moving cabs into your attic, and more about moving house :laugh:

in sort of seriousness, could you honestly see yourself cutting up your sw cockpit at all?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 20, 2007, 05:59:18 pm
Haha...yeah, you got some extra money for me ? Thing is I live in a fine house, great location and great neighborhood. Don't want to move really. Only problem is some space for the cabs :)....... a guy couple of houses further suggested getting a divorce as the cheapest option, then I could move everything into the living room :P

Cutting ? Who's talking about cutting ? The Cockpit is more or less three parts: - the body where all the electronics are, the back with the seat and marquee, and the top with the plexi's.

These are bolted/screwed together as far I can see now. So if it's relatively easy to unscrew the top, this would be really good :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 20, 2007, 06:06:12 pm
Here's some video footage I shot today. Things to notice:

1) My 5 year old son Mark and his very first try on Star Wars. In no-time he was shooting tie's and almost every death start exhaust port he could reach :) Of course on the easy level, but not bad  :laugh:

2) Video showing the convergence problem and the pincusion problem. First blue and red, then all three colors.

3) Attracht mode, look at the Star Wars logo, the letters are now closed. They had "open ends" first. This was corrected by simply adjusting the X and Y Bipolar pots.

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=byQqY541dAU[/youtube]
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 20, 2007, 07:15:52 pm
Cleaned the bezel.........this is in mint condition !!  :applaud:


Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 21, 2007, 03:54:29 pm
Looks like removing the top can be done:
http://andysarcade.de/data/picseries/sw_restore/overview.html

... although I'm not planning on a full disassembly like this !

Also, I could even bend the plexi myself, just need some heat - wire:

http://www.tapplastics.com/info/video_detail.php?vid=7&format=quicktime&

Also look at the other videos, some nice idea's.....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: patrickl on October 21, 2007, 04:13:59 pm
Also, I could even bend the plexi myself, just need some heat - wire:

http://www.tapplastics.com/info/video_detail.php?vid=7&format=quicktime&
That looks really cool, but where do you find the heating element?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 21, 2007, 04:47:32 pm
Well, I'm not planning on spending 60 bucks for that heating element they show.

My first option to bring the original to Stout Perspex and ask nicely if they can duplicate it for me. I trust it won't be very expensive, it's not like hours of work...and they got professional tools.

If it IS too expensive I think I will build something like shown in the video, but use a resistance wire instead. This should be available at any electronics shop OR I could get it from an old hairdryer or electrical heater or something like that.....


Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: General Vergel on October 21, 2007, 09:45:17 pm
I've been lurking for about a month now, just recently registered an account, and I have to say you are one of my heroes due to this project. I've been a hardcore  Star Wars fan since I was but a wee lad, and seeing you putting this baby together is freaking astounding. Keep up the awesome work!  :D :applaud: :woot
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 22, 2007, 01:05:59 pm
Welcome Vergel, and thanks for the kind words......never imagined I'd be someone's hero one day  :)
 :cheers:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 23, 2007, 04:59:57 pm
For those interested: I scanned the cardboard bezel. This version is ONLY used in the cockpit.

(http://gallery.mac.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3295/web.jpg)

I sent the files to Zorg who promised to stitch them together and make a good file of it.....

Further I have acquired an accessory  that should not be missed if you own a SW:
(http://gallery.mac.com/andre.huijts/100010/DSCF3296/web.jpg)

(http://gallery.mac.com/andre.huijts/100010/DSCF3298/web.jpg)




Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: rovingmind on October 23, 2007, 05:21:23 pm
YAYYYYYYYYYYYYY  :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 25, 2007, 03:14:39 pm
No comments on the poster ? Nobody interested ? Weird !  :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: SithMaster on October 25, 2007, 03:35:34 pm
I like the poster.  Just that i dont have a sw cockpit and im sad.  How much was it if you dont mind me asking?  I was thinking of using some A New Hope posters for the sideart on a sw mame project i havent been working on and this might work out better.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: shardian on October 25, 2007, 03:36:44 pm
If I had to guess, you had that poster printed off on gloss plotter paper didn't you.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 25, 2007, 03:41:41 pm
Yup. Downloaded the file and uploaded it to a drugstore's photo printing site. Choose the 75 x 50 cm poster size. It's printed on Fujifilm photopaper.

Cost: €8,95............
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: SithMaster on October 25, 2007, 03:50:42 pm
Then it might work out very well for what i want.  Thanks for the idea.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: rovingmind on October 25, 2007, 04:36:11 pm
is that the poster in the artwork files set from the arcade art hd buy?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 25, 2007, 05:01:36 pm
Yup.

http://www.gamoover.net/Forums/index.php?action=gallery;cat=54
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: rovingmind on October 25, 2007, 05:16:29 pm
I thought so, that fileset is stashed away for the moment, It does look sweet printed out.

other posters (http://www.cinemasterpieces.com/cinestarwars.htm) from the star wars saga.  I dont know if you've seen all of these but I think they are cool.

Yup.

http://www.gamoover.net/Forums/index.php?action=gallery;cat=54


Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 25, 2007, 05:42:55 pm
Stashed away ? The posters are there to download on the link I put up there !

While searching the web I found this:

http://www.ionpool.net/arcade/atari_docs/swfocus2.pdf

This is an evaluation of having a group of people test-play the prototypes.

Look at Other Considerations #2  :D

Looks like we need to thank those test-players who suggested the sit-down  :applaud:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: rovingmind on October 25, 2007, 05:58:45 pm
i meant I had them stashed away, along with the artwork files.  sorry for the confusion
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: shilmover on October 28, 2007, 07:34:22 am
Never mind...   ???
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 28, 2007, 08:03:14 am
?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: shilmover on October 28, 2007, 08:14:14 am
?

My bad.  Having a blonde moment...   :-[

Started a post yesterday asking where you got the poster... forgot about it...  then finished the post today, then noticed that you answered the question...   ;D

BTW, my wife could not find those Logitech wheels in our Target.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on December 11, 2007, 03:33:57 pm
No better reason to post a reply here than a sexy looking picture like this:
(http://ggdb.com/img/ggdb/members/1/1040_729_fs.jpg)

Yumm :P

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: shilmover on December 11, 2007, 03:55:32 pm
No better reason to post a reply here than a sexy looking picture like this:
(http://ggdb.com/img/ggdb/members/1/1040_729_fs.jpg)

Yumm :P

That your garage?   ;D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: shardian on December 11, 2007, 04:27:34 pm
is that the poster in the artwork files set from the arcade art hd buy?

Yes, the poster is in the group buy. I thought that was where he got it from. The link was pretty cool, and I think I'll try to get a few of those printed eventually.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on December 12, 2007, 06:28:45 am
No better reason to post a reply here than a sexy looking picture like this:
(http://ggdb.com/img/ggdb/members/1/1040_729_fs.jpg)

Yumm :P

That your garage?   ;D
I don't even have a garage. Let alone 3 cockpits.......well, I'm happy to have one :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: patrickl on December 12, 2007, 07:45:32 am
I didn't know they had multi play back then. Wireless too, by the looks of it  :P
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on December 12, 2007, 01:46:32 pm
I didn't know they had multi play back then. Wireless too, by the looks of it  :P
Actually, there was talk about a linked version. The hardware is even prepared for it. Shame it didn't happen.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: patrickl on December 12, 2007, 03:47:03 pm
Cool, Blakes 7! My web server is called Orac  8)  (actually both are)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on December 12, 2007, 03:55:42 pm
Cool, Blakes 7! My web server is called Orac  8)  (actually both are)
Yeah, I just bought the Series 1 DVD box set. Great to see that again, really brings out that 80's feeling and youth memories !!!

Despite the low budget, the (now) dodgy special effects etc., I still think this is a great SF series. The fact that the "heroes" are not the fantastic perfect beings that they seem to be in other series is great. The tension between the members of the group is always there. It's a much "darker" SF series than most others we know.....
It's also amazing how we got used to rapid shots/edits. Here, everything seems much slower all of a sudden......
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: patrickl on December 12, 2007, 04:25:58 pm
Cool, Blakes 7! My web server is called Orac  8)  (actually both are)
Yeah, I just bought the Series 1 DVD box set. Great to see that again, really brings out that 80's feeling and youth memories !!!
Indeed, playing Galaga/Operation Wolf and watching Blakes 7 were the coolest things back then. Well at least I thought so :)

Great show. I loved the fact that the story would go past a single episode and indeed the depth they created in the characters.

Anyway, back to work you. You have cabs to fix  :angel:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on December 12, 2007, 05:36:48 pm
Yeah, we're slightly drifting off (a couple of lightyears....)

Actually I'm doing nothing about the cabs right now, making a presentation that I have to do tomorrow....

Well that garage picture was great, so to compensate....

(http://media.bonnint.net/slc/305/30519/3051999.JPG?filter=ksl/gallery1)

That hurts !!!!

(Posted by jar155 at the KLOV forum)

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=389&ssid=2314435&pid=0&rurl=nid

And this is the listing:
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=218&ad=2314435&cat=&lpid=

Not bad if you're looking for a project, sell the Wonderboy stuff and restore it to it's old beauty ! :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: shilmover on December 12, 2007, 05:44:33 pm
 :o :cry: :cry: :cry: :o   :badmood:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on December 12, 2007, 05:55:15 pm
Sorry Shil,

To make you chear up again:

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k223/keiths3/4starwars.jpg)

and
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k223/keiths3/4starwarson.jpg)


Source: http://forums.webmagic.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=2&Number=603154&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

It's like money: some people have way too much....

One of those has the real Amplifone, the others are 6100's....can you pick it out ?  :laugh2:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on December 12, 2007, 06:01:31 pm
By the colors of the marquees I'd say that 2 are US built and 2 Irish....
Also the one on the far left has the different bezel art. Someone here asked me about that....can't remember who or in what thread....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: shilmover on December 12, 2007, 06:13:23 pm
Sorry Shil,

To make you chear up again:

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k223/keiths3/4starwars.jpg)

and
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k223/keiths3/4starwarson.jpg)


Source: http://forums.webmagic.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=2&Number=603154&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

It's like money: some people have way too much....

One of those has the real Amplifone, the others are 6100's....can you pick it out ?  :laugh2:


That's supposed to cheer me up!?!?   :dizzy:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Darth Nuno on December 13, 2007, 03:25:14 am
...
[Edit] I just looked at Stout's website, they can do anything you can imagine with the plexi. Just to name one: Computer controlled oven for bending...... think that would do the job fine :P

Hi my friend,

If you remember, the roof of my SW cockpit has a bad crack on it  :(

I've to fix that too... Did you already put an order for new plexi ? What is the status on that ?  8)

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on December 13, 2007, 01:08:00 pm
Hey Bruno !

No I haven't done much about the SW lately, mostly because of winter time and as you may remember it's at my friend's shed so it's not that easy to work on it.

As you may have seen I've moved my Centipede into my livingroom and started working on that a lot (see the thread in Arcade Misc.) and I'm focussing on getting this done before X-mas :D

However, after that's done it's back to the SW again of course......
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: melarky on December 14, 2007, 03:16:13 pm
Yeah, we're slightly drifting off (a couple of lightyears....)

Actually I'm doing nothing about the cabs right now, making a presentation that I have to do tomorrow....

Well that garage picture was great, so to compensate....

(http://media.bonnint.net/slc/305/30519/3051999.JPG?filter=ksl/gallery1)

That hurts !!!!

(Posted by jar155 at the KLOV forum)

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=389&ssid=2314435&pid=0&rurl=nid

And this is the listing:
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=218&ad=2314435&cat=&lpid=

Not bad if you're looking for a project, sell the Wonderboy stuff and restore it to it's old beauty ! :)

I bought this.  The cab is in worse shape than that pic really lets on.  I'm looking forward to taking all of the measurments and cutting/making a new star wars.  wish the cab was more salvagable, but at least it will help me make a new one.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on January 20, 2008, 04:17:47 pm
Sorry guys no real update, apart from that I won a complete set of SW PCB's for a very nice price. Untested of course, but I hope to be able to give them a run this week.

However, what I wanted to point you guys to is this:

http://www.atarigames.com/page4/files/page4-1007-pop.html

Now is that lovely or what ? Look at how brand new the machines look...and that first guy in the cockpit not using the thumb buttons and hardly up-down :D

Could that guy with the beard explaining about the hardware be Jed Margolin ? He's saying stereo speakers, not the entire truth but OK....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: ChadTower on January 21, 2008, 01:41:00 pm
I bought this.  The cab is in worse shape than that pic really lets on.  I'm looking forward to taking all of the measurments and cutting/making a new star wars.  wish the cab was more salvagable, but at least it will help me make a new one.

Can't be half as bad as the one I bought... looked pretty good in the pics, I rented a truck and drove 90 minutes to get it... and the back was literally crumbling in my hands trying to move it.  I had to improvise bracing in the cab so that it wouldn't fall apart lying on its back.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: atarigames on January 22, 2008, 08:12:35 pm
No, that is not Jed Margolin.  It's possibly Norm Avellar, but I am 100% certain it's not JED.

Scott
www.atarigames.com


Could that guy with the beard explaining about the hardware be Jed Margolin ? He's saying stereo speakers, not the entire truth but OK....
[/quote]
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: rovingmind on January 22, 2008, 09:11:40 pm
For those interested: I scanned the cardboard bezel. This version is ONLY used in the cockpit.

(http://gallery.mac.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3295/web.jpg)

I sent the files to Zorg who promised to stitch them together and make a good file of it.....


Did you ever get a stitched together usable image? or did i miss the its finished post somewhere?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on January 23, 2008, 08:48:10 am
Zorg was taking care of that. I also sent him the Puckman side art files, but I guess he's pretty busy, haven't heard from him in a while.....Zorg ?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: shardian on January 23, 2008, 08:56:20 am
Zorg was taking care of that. I also sent him the Puckman side art files, but I guess he's pretty busy, haven't heard from him in a while.....Zorg ?

He's working on the Xevious bezel. Step in line ---smurfette---! JK! :laugh2: :laugh2:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on January 23, 2008, 10:12:01 am
Hey, what's more important. Star Wars Cockpit cardboard bezel thingy or Xevious bezel ?

(I'll just fill a line of  ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)'s here, because maybe someone could actually  think I was serious here)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: rovingmind on January 23, 2008, 04:44:07 pm
ok thanks, i was just wondering how it was going.   :D :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on January 25, 2008, 03:44:47 pm
OK guess. You know, I was thinking.....what is so special about SW that I like it so much ?
Wouldn't it be much cooler to have a bit more modern racing sit-down ?
I also had some, let's say 2nd thoughts about this whole yoke ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- elsewhere on this forum, so I thought what the hell !

So I removed all the inner parts of the SW cockpit, smashed the Amplifone, melted the yoke and got the black paint out. Found a cheap steering wheel and, well this is the result. I guess you'all agree this is much better now:

(http://www.brentradio.com/images/HellcadeAll/StarWarsCockpit2Great1000MilesRally.jpg)

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: polaris on January 25, 2008, 03:52:15 pm
you're rubbish at painting but ok at putting stickers on
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Fozzy The Bear on January 25, 2008, 09:41:49 pm
(http://www.brentradio.com/images/HellcadeAll/StarWarsCockpit2Great1000MilesRally.jpg)

OUCH!!! Damn that hurts just to look at it. I'd love to meet the moron who actually did that.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: ChadTower on January 25, 2008, 09:57:49 pm

Having been in this restoration hobby for a few years now...

...maybe that guy wasn't so evil.  If the monitor really was dead... the alternative to what he did was to take a sledge hammer to it.   :P
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on January 26, 2008, 05:31:20 am
Bwah...

Fixing the Amplifone is the easiest monitor repair I've done so far.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on January 26, 2008, 10:07:14 am
Level 42 has two 100% working SW PCB sets :) :)

I knew it :) The force was strong with this PCB set :D  :applaud: :applaud: :cheers: :cheers:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Fozzy The Bear on January 27, 2008, 09:03:26 am
Level 42 has two 100% working SW PCB sets :) :)

Well done!!!   :cheers:  :applaud: :applaud: I'm having trouble tracking down even one set.... LOL

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on January 27, 2008, 11:34:27 am
Level 42 has two 100% working SW PCB sets :) :)

Well done!!!   :cheers:  :applaud: :applaud: I'm having trouble tracking down even one set.... LOL

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
Thanks, I was extremely lucky and I owe a beer or two to Darthnuno who kindly pointed me to the e-bay auction.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Darth Nuno on January 27, 2008, 11:57:57 am
Level 42 has two 100% working SW PCB sets :) :)

Well done!!!   :cheers:  :applaud: :applaud: I'm having trouble tracking down even one set.... LOL

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
Thanks, I was extremely lucky and I owe a beer or two to Darthnuno who kindly pointed me to the e-bay auction.

Woow.... Really happy to see the boards are working  :applaud: ... ok, my favorite beer is 'KRIEK'  :cheers:

 ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on January 27, 2008, 01:16:51 pm
Level 42 has two 100% working SW PCB sets :) :)

Well done!!!   :cheers:  :applaud: :applaud: I'm having trouble tracking down even one set.... LOL

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
Thanks, I was extremely lucky and I owe a beer or two to Darthnuno who kindly pointed me to the e-bay auction.

Woow.... Really happy to see the boards are working  :applaud: ... ok, my favorite beer is 'KRIEK'  :cheers:

 ;)
Bruno, if you can find a color vector monitor we could restore that cockpit of yours to it's old glory.....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: ChadTower on January 28, 2008, 08:48:40 am
5 minutes from me. (http://cgi.ebay.com/STAR-WARS-SIT-DOWN-CABINET-NON-WORKING-NICE-SHAPE-NR_W0QQitemZ120215712563QQihZ002QQcategoryZ13716QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on January 28, 2008, 02:22:44 pm
Mmmmmm, would that be the Amplifone CRT ? Somehow, I have my doubts. I don't remember my CRT having such a wide black border around it.....

And the HV and deflection boards are gone.....

Otherwise.....no bids ? 100 bucks is not bad for that cab, even with the raunchy ESB marquee...
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: ChadTower on January 28, 2008, 02:25:36 pm

It says no longer for sale... odd.

I wonder if someone bought it off Ebay like I was trying to do.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on January 29, 2008, 01:00:31 am
There's a deflection PCB and a HV PCB (Without the HVT) on e-bay now as well....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on March 23, 2008, 05:37:46 am
My favorite recent video:

http://www.atarigames.com/page4/files/page4-1007-pop.html
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: patrickl on March 23, 2008, 07:06:59 am
Jammer dat het quicktime is. Dat virus installeer ik echt niet.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on March 23, 2008, 07:35:17 am
Nou ja zeg !

Blij dat ik een Mac gebruiker ben :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: patrickl on March 23, 2008, 07:40:53 am
Nou ja zeg !

Blij dat ik een Mac gebruiker ben :)
Ja, ik neem aan dat Quicktime op een Mac wel beter werkt. QuickTime voor de PC is echt een soort virus.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on March 23, 2008, 07:47:52 am
Onzin. Kijk even de definitie van een virus na.....verspreid zichzelf, zonder dat de gebruiker het weet, sloopt bepaalde dingen. Dat alles doet Quicktime niet.
Je moet gewoon even opletten wat je aanklikt bij het installeren (bijv. dat je het niet wilt gebruiken om foto's te bekijken).
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: patrickl on March 23, 2008, 07:58:46 am
Onzin. Kijk even de definitie van een virus na.....verspreid zichzelf, zonder dat de gebruiker het weet, sloopt bepaalde dingen. Dat alles doet Quicktime niet.
Je moet gewoon even opletten wat je aanklikt bij het installeren (bijv. dat je het niet wilt gebruiken om foto's te bekijken).
Trojan dan. Het doet wel dingen zonder toestemming die het niet zou moeten doen en het is bovendien een knudde programma. Serieus zoek maar op "quicktime sucks" of iets dergelijks. Het is net zo erg als die Realtime rotzooi. Dat installeer ik ook niet.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on March 23, 2008, 08:06:07 am
Nee, Windows Media Player is een feestje :D

Marruhhhh, we raken off-topic :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: WunderCade on March 23, 2008, 11:22:14 pm
Hmmm...this thread suddenly feels like a stroll through my local Wal-Mart where I don't understand a ---smurfing--- word spoken. :P
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Singapura on March 24, 2008, 02:21:48 am
Not a lot of Dutch working at Walmart I think.....  Jongens, Nederlands wordt hier niet echt gewaardeerd door onze Amerikaanse vrienden. Let's get back to English.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on March 24, 2008, 08:04:20 am
Hmmm...this thread suddenly feels like a stroll through my local Wal-Mart where I don't understand a ---smurfing--- word spoken. :P
Never mind, it was completely off-topic. Something about Quicktime on the Windows platform being a virus or not. I'd prefer to discuss this (or rather not :P) somewhere else. And I'm a Mac user so Quicktime is fine with me :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on April 12, 2008, 08:01:11 pm
Well, there was some discussion about running a vector game on an oscilloscope.

Here it is:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1zI8tmQ-T8[/youtube]

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: arcadefever on April 13, 2008, 12:36:30 am
 :D

Look like my Vectrex  ;D with more green !!!

Nice vid  :cheers:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on April 13, 2008, 04:13:05 pm
:D

Look like my Vectrex  ;D with more green !!!

Nice vid  :cheers:
Thanks Fever :)

Here's another video I shot that day. I was testing a deflection and HV-pcb set from a friend that I had re-built. After some playing I discovered a problem, there was horizontal movement in the vertical lines.....
First thought it would be a difficult problem, but then I thought about that it could be the potmeter....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF5hvj2_OBA[/youtube]

Maybe helpful for some others with this issue.

NOTE: I KNOW that the BIP screen is badly alligned here. I only used this screen to demonstrate the vertical lines going crazy ! :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: dgame on April 22, 2008, 03:32:29 pm
No comments on the poster ? Nobody interested ? Weird !  :D

Since discovering the link to poster file in this thread I had the poster printed and framed. It currently hangs proudly on my office wall. I had another Star Wars poster to put up, but this one combines the best of what I like: the original trilogy and vintage video games.

Thanks for the link, and great job on the cockpit. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: dgame on April 23, 2008, 02:30:22 pm
Here is a picture:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on April 23, 2008, 05:21:19 pm
Great !

I actually still have to frame it.... I looked for a large black carton backdrop everywhere (I have a silver frame) but couldn't find it in that big size.....until I had to work at a customer who's business is.......making backdrop cartons for picture frames :) :) After working there the whole day, I asked a guy if I could buy a sheet of black carton, and he said "yeah, right" and picked one out of the production line and gave it to me. It's actually layered, so if I would cut it at an angle, you'd see that the inner side is white..... Not that I want that :D

But I am SO clumsy with these kind of things that I am afraid to ruin it.....I think I'll go back if I'm in the area, 'cause the guy showed me his "workshop" where he did framing etc. and was very proud showing off some artwork he created from all kinds of carton...so i guess he'd do me the favor of a simple frame job like that (simple for him that is :) )
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: patrickl on April 23, 2008, 05:30:54 pm
I bought a big piece of black foam core posterboard at a hobby shop. With a black core.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on May 29, 2008, 06:27:41 pm
Yeaaahhhh, I found out what was causing the terrible convergence on the lower left corner  !

I was experimenting with some of those strips with metal pieces on one end and sticky stuff on the other that are used  to converge the corners of a CRT (thanks to a great guy here on the forum that sent them to me for free, you know who you are  :applaud:). I got it improved quite a bit, but then I noticed a weird piece of tape on the tube right in that lower right (from the backside) area. Turned out it was "holding" two of those strips, but it failed to do it's job properly, the strips were loose from the tube where the metal parts were. This caused the terrible convergence !

I removed them and it instantly got a lot better ! It's not pefect yet, didn't have more time, but I'm sure I can get it 100% now with some more tweaking with these strips !

 :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

You can see the white strips going to the center of the CRT clearly here:
(http://gallery.mac.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2348/web.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Stub on May 30, 2008, 09:18:11 pm
Wow tell me more about those strips?
I have the same issue.

What are they called? Where can I buy them, and where is a tutorial in how to adjust them?

You have me excited!
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on May 31, 2008, 03:34:35 am
Found this on the WG site:

YOKE TABS    Strips with a magnet at one end and an adhesive at the other end. They are applied to the picture tube around the yoke to improve the convergence near the edges of the tube when needed.

So I guess that's what they are called but I think I've seen other names. I thought Happ had them, but I can't find them on their site.

Check your PM's......
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on July 01, 2008, 10:49:13 am
Just a small test, sorry guys....

[youtube]http://hostyou.tv/view_video.php?viewkey=c298ab50293adfecb7b1[/youtube]
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Steve on July 02, 2008, 08:05:38 am
Any chance of the cabinet plans ?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on July 02, 2008, 06:25:03 pm
I thought the dimensions were all measured and published in another thread here ?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: ChadTower on July 03, 2008, 09:01:12 am

I know I wasn't around for a while, but last I remember they were still like 75% done and hadn't been put out there yet.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on July 13, 2008, 11:25:04 am
Hey guys, remember this one being mentioned in this thread:

(http://www.brentradio.com/images/HellcadeAll/StarWarsCockpit2Great1000MilesRally.jpg)

The great news is that someone on KLOV forum picked it up and is planning a full restore !

Check out all the details here:
http://forums.webmagic.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=2&Number=821121&an=0&page=0#Post821121

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: m_mcgover on July 28, 2008, 02:04:14 pm
Hey...that's me!

At any rate, I should probably start a new thread....

But here is first part (of probably many parts!) of the restoration:

http://forums.webmagic.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=828169&page=0#Post828169

A good start.  The next major hurdle is removing the 1000 Mile Rally stickers and black paint over the sideart....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on July 28, 2008, 03:29:12 pm
Yes I'd really like a cab about that restore, that's going to be one great restoration to follow !

 :applaud: :applaud: for your rescue mission !
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: rovingmind on July 29, 2008, 02:55:19 am
it was discovered (in the thread about star wars cab plans) that what had been measured was actually off by a bit.  Since actual panels had become available to one individual the measured dimensioning was put on hold. 

Both people involved in the project of building and completely dimensioning a star wars cockpit, came down with a case of wiggleitis (ie... small children entering the household) and all the things that entails.   New furniture, new house, new bills, Alot less time for projects.

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 02, 2008, 12:08:51 pm
Went to my beloved SW cockpit to remove the top plexi's. Darthnuno asked me to get a price for replacements as his bend piece is broken.

I went to my local Perspex dealer (where I already got the bezel perspex for my Galaxian and SW monitor from), Stout Perspex (www.stoutperspex.nl) with both the bend and flat piece and asked if they could recreate them. That was no problem at all. They have computer controlled machines to work the materials so the bends were no problem at all. He also told me they could do the holes. I asked if I couldn't do them myself, he said sure, but it was a bit risky because of the holes being close to the edge.

I figured I wouldn't want to ruin the brand new plexi's, so I asked for a price per set completely done with bends and holes, and it was €98,- per set. I think that's a reasonable price.

The only difference will be the color. The bronze color is not available anymore, but we (Darthnuno and I) don't care because we wanted it grey ("no color") anyway. We think that will look MUCH better than the browny looking original.....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 27, 2008, 05:10:37 am
The perspex repro's are in and MAN are my hands itchy to rip those protective layers off.

But I won't.


One set is for Bruno and I want to get it to his place totaly mint of course.

The other set is for my own cab, but I won't install it untill it's safely in my still-to-be-build gameroom (which hopefully starts soon).

Anyway, here are some teaser shots:

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF1604/web.jpg)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF1616/web.jpg)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF1619/web.jpg)

To get an idea of the difference in looks: here's the same stuff:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100312/DSCF1607/web.jpg)

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: HoopstarsGarage on August 27, 2008, 06:37:35 am
Any chance of getting the angles of the canopy..??


Hoops
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 27, 2008, 06:51:41 am
Uhmmm...yeah I think I can do that.....let me find my "geodriehoek"....

The one with long part is 70 degrees.
The one with the short part is 45 degrees.

Here's some shots:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF1623/web.jpg)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF1624/web.jpg)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF1625/web.jpg)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF1626/web.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: HoopstarsGarage on August 27, 2008, 06:58:34 am
..and while I am being cheeky asking for things.. the lengths between each of those angles..

cheers


Hoops
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 27, 2008, 07:11:43 am
46,2 cm.

Measured at the center point of the bends.

That's about 18.188976 inches for those living in the minority of the world that still uses imperial sizes  :laugh:



All measurements without any guarantees :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: HoopstarsGarage on August 27, 2008, 10:40:56 am
Thanks for the angles and measurement..

I actually was wondering if you could have supplied them all Level42..??  Looking forward to getting back into the scratch build SWC project (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=67853.0) and this is just the stuff I need..


(http://www.adam.com.au/hr350/canopy.jpg)


Thanks..   :applaud:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: WunderCade on August 27, 2008, 11:43:39 am
Nice canopies...I like the darker tinted one in your comparison. I think it'll make the cockpit look very sweet.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 27, 2008, 12:41:35 pm
Thanks for the angles and measurement..

I actually was wondering if you could have supplied them all Level42..??  Looking forward to getting back into the scratch build SWC project (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=67853.0) and this is just the stuff I need..


(http://www.adam.com.au/hr350/canopy.jpg)


Thanks..   :applaud:
Sure:

A=27,7 cm.
B=46,2 cm.
C=8,8 cm.

Amazing car your Holden, great work !! Holden is General Motors right ? It kinda reminds me of some Opel cars here in Europe which are also GM.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 27, 2008, 12:52:16 pm
By the way, I bet you forgot to ask measurement D...... :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: WunderCade on August 27, 2008, 01:28:22 pm
In the US cm=centimeter and m=meter, Level42. So your measurement A=27,7cm is A=27.7 centimeters?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 27, 2008, 01:58:05 pm
Yeah sorry. You guys use a comma where we use a period and the other way around.

cm = cm = 1/100 of a meter....


Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Darth Nuno on August 27, 2008, 02:01:13 pm
Wooow.... It looks so greeeattt  :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

I can't wait to see my cockpit with this *brand* new/repro plexi  :P :P :P

Have a look at the current plexi top :

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/starwars/roof1.jpg)

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/starwars/roof10.jpg)

(all the pictures on this post (http://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=74.0))

Now you can easily understand why I'm so happy about this  :cheers:

You rock André  :applaud: :notworthy:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: RayB on August 27, 2008, 02:59:51 pm
Ooo I just noticed the tmolding on that sucker. I would assume there's no replacement for that style, huh?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 27, 2008, 03:37:02 pm
Man, that's one of my "grails" in parts. I've been looking and searching ever since I got the SW.
No it's not available anymore. There's something from Outwater plastics that is simular but not the same. I've actually placed an order for it once, but it was TOTALY ignored. No mail, no confirmation nothing. Luckily no CC credited either.

The T-molding on my cockpit is coming loose and they tried to fix it with all kinds of stuff. It's probably the worst part on my cockpit.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: patrickl on August 27, 2008, 04:22:12 pm
A client of mine is Enitor  (http://www.enitor.com/pages/home.aspx) in the north of the Netherlands. They make T-molding there (and other plastic extrusions). Not sure if I'm allowed to say who their clients are, but some very large scale furniture manufacturers buy their stuff there. I got a tour of the factory and it's a pretty impressive plant. I immediately had to think of our hobby. They can make any t-molding you like, but you'd need to have a mold made (which of course would cost a fortune).

Actually I saw that RAM controls has "Star Wars Cockpit Wide T-molding" as one of his "Miscellaneous Projects:" projects  :P
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: HoopstarsGarage on August 27, 2008, 08:56:03 pm
Amazing car your Holden, great work !! Holden is General Motors right ? It kinda reminds me of some Opel cars here in Europe which are also GM.
Thanks 42 - it's another nice toy but realistically probably a little too quick for the street..  :o

You are correct.. Holden is GM owned.. 


Once again, thanks for the measurements..!!  This is one area of my cabinet that I didn't have my information on and this will certainly help me calculate the inner "hoops".  :applaud:

I ordered some of the wide T-molding from Outcast and  it looks very very nice but obviously is not even close to 100% original, which is what we all want.  As for RAM controls bringing out a repro of it..  I believe it when I see the Yoke controls have been finished.  Unfortunately RAM seem to have too many ideas and not enough focus on current projects and the cost of tooling the extrusion die would be many thousands of dollars, so it might end up costing many hundreds to install "new" t-molding..  I think the Outcast stuff cost me about $50-ish including freight to Australia..


On the T-molding side - does anyone have a source for the "flat" t-molding used on the majority of the cabinet?  Places like t-moding.com only sell the stuff that  is a little more rounded..

anyway - enough thread hijacking from me :)


Hoops
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on September 02, 2008, 06:33:51 am
Did you get a lot of the T-molding, as I remember that they had some minimum quantity ?

I'd still prefer that Outwater stuff over keeping my original. And that while normally I'd keep it original if it weren't too bad but this is a lost case.

I thought the other T-molding was the regular black T-molding ? I didn't look too closely though. Maybe the Irish cab has the regular and the US different style ?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: HoopstarsGarage on September 03, 2008, 08:25:56 am
I bought the minimum order from Outwater which was 12' (approx 4 metres) which worked out to about $9US.  The kicker was the postage to Australia cost me over $50US when the actual postage printed on the USPS label was only something like $12US.. I was not happy when I have had a full size coin door freighted from the US for less..  ::)

As for the T-molding on the rest of the cabinet, it appears a lot flatter that most other cabinets/t-molding.  Having looked through the Outwater catoluge, I found that their
"Flat Face Bumper Molding" (http://www.outwatercatalogs.com/2008_Master/lg_display.cfm?page_number=14&catalog=080135) seems like a good match - but I am not that keen on paying another $50+ to get it here, so if I can find another supplier that don't rip their customers off with postage, would be keen to get some..

(http://www.adam.com.au/hr350/2006_1127Image0027.JPG)


Hoops


Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: HoopstarsGarage on September 03, 2008, 08:28:20 am
double post  :dunno
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on September 12, 2008, 12:35:37 pm
Yiha !

The Star Wars/ESB kit has arrived today and I installed it. Pretty easy, NO soldering at all :)

To my utter regret I can't test it tonight however. I'd loved to play ESB on my Amplifone....

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on September 13, 2008, 12:09:51 pm
Yeah, tried it today and it works great ! Youtube video tomorrow.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on September 15, 2008, 06:51:09 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj1IxnHoZR4


I delivered the new plexi's for Darthnuno's cockpit at the collectors fair, so expect picture from him installing them soon ! :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: patrickl on September 16, 2008, 03:18:10 am
Cool  8)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on September 16, 2008, 05:42:20 pm
In the paper for the first time :) Together with my Belgian friend Luc. (On the right of the SW upright).

Ok, not my Star Wars, but I did restore it to "as good as new" condition electronically :

(http://www.gameroom.be/gazet/images/image/GameRoom/CS-GR-HBVL.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: patrickl on September 16, 2008, 07:17:28 pm
I hope that with your newfound celebrity status you will still stay a regular guy. Do people recognize you on the street already?  ;D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Mauzy on September 16, 2008, 10:09:46 pm
hey... they spelled "news" wrong...  ;D

Thats pretty cool. I hope I can hit it big in the papers someday.

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on September 18, 2008, 08:36:24 am
I hope that with your newfound celebrity status you will still stay a regular guy. Do people recognize you on the street already?  ;D
Excuse me, do I know you ?



 :laugh:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: RayB on September 18, 2008, 02:06:39 pm
Q: Is an ESB kit worth it?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: ChadTower on September 18, 2008, 02:15:05 pm

I'd say so.  I keep all my PCBs in ElectroStatic Bags.

 ;D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on September 18, 2008, 03:24:21 pm
Q: Is an ESB kit worth it?

Depends on what you expect of it.

Generally SW is regarded as the better game of the two. However, it's always cool to have more games on one cab (as long as it's original).

The single most asked question I get from people who don't know about classic arcade games is: So, what other games does it play ?..........

The one thing that ESB misses compared to SW is something like the Death Star exploding. There seems to be no "end" goal. Also, some people don't like the "Asteroids" level as they can't be shot (only dodged).
I thought it was a good addition to my cab. I like ESB too. The walkers level is the best of the game. And it's still cool to see the Darth Vader screen.

Anyway, I had always wanted to add this. It wasn't on the top of my priority list, but I got this as a favor back for repairing Luc's SW cabs (and installing two of these kits on his machines :) ).
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: ChadTower on September 18, 2008, 03:38:48 pm

IMO, it's worth it.  I'm going that route with mine when I get it running.  Not sure if it will be VectorMAME or actual PCB based (I have nonworking PCBs and the kit already) but definitely both games.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on September 19, 2008, 01:27:40 am
Please keep it original my friend :D

There's probably other options for you, but Andreas from www.andysarcade.de just repaired Luc's Cockpit PCB set. He also worked on his own SW and ESB (original Atari upgraded) PCB sets.
He's amazing at IC level repairs. Would require shipping to Germany but I'm sure he can also give a lot of info/help about repairing yours if you're going to try somethings yourself.

What issue's do your boards have ?

You can swap boards freely between each-other to see on what board the problem is.

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Spyridon on September 19, 2008, 09:47:03 am
Nice video you posted.  Makes we want to find a Star Wars for my gameroom!
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: ChadTower on September 19, 2008, 10:07:27 am
Please keep it original my friend :D

There's probably other options for you, but Andreas from www.andysarcade.de just repaired Luc's Cockpit PCB set. He also worked on his own SW and ESB (original Atari upgraded) PCB sets.
He's amazing at IC level repairs. Would require shipping to Germany but I'm sure he can also give a lot of info/help about repairing yours if you're going to try somethings yourself.

What issue's do your boards have ?

You can swap boards freely between each-other to see on what board the problem is.


I intend to make it original eventually but the VectorMAME approach is the faster and more reliable short term method.  There are a couple top shelf game board repair guys local to me so I shouldn't have to ship off to Germany.  I haven't taken a hard look at these PCBs yet and definitely havent' tried to power them up.  The major effort is going to be the cabinet - major water damage to the back and top.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on September 20, 2008, 02:43:33 am
2600 requested a picture of the new kit. The old one had a number of seperate TTL IC's and the board is a bit larger because of that.

The new one has all that circuits integrated into a single chip.

I planned to do a full set of pictures of the complete installation, but got carried away and forgot to take pictures of all the steps.

I still have to install one kit for my friend Luc's SW cockpit and will take pictures of the installation on that one.

At least here's some pics:

The main board:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF1751/web.jpg)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF1753/web.jpg)

The Sound board:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF1687/web.jpg)

The board for the AVG is similar but only holds a single EPROM that replaces all the original EPROMs.

The wires connecting the boards are pre-installed. The only thing to solder is a momentary switch button to switch between the games.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: RayB on September 21, 2008, 09:05:17 pm
Is it by Clay Cowgill or is someone else making ESB kits now?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on September 22, 2008, 05:37:09 am
Is it by Clay Cowgill or is someone else making ESB kits now?

No this one is Mark Spaeth's. Clay was in the process of developing a new kit (at least he was investigating interest about possible options for it on the KLOV forum). Clay said he might be able to include some longer speech fragments in SW that were left out to save memory space. That would be very interesting, but we didn't want to wait. I haven't seen any news about Clay's new kit recently.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 14, 2008, 12:25:53 am
I e-mailed Jed Margolin some time ago to ask if he would know the answer to two questions that have been bugging me for quite some time about the Star Wars cockpits:

1)
Q:Were any Star Wars cockpits manufactured with 19" monitors instead of
the usual 25" Amplifones ?
.
I think that Atari never made any cockpits with 19" CRT's. The service
manual doesn't mention any 19" options. IMHO any 19" in a cockpit is a
retro-fit.

A:
I don't think there were any Star Wars cockpit games built with a 19"
monitor, but sometimes things were done in Manufacturing that I didn't know about.

For example, towards the end of the BattleZone run they made some without
the periscope-type bezel. The monitor was mounted in front of the player. (I
never liked the bezel because it made it difficult for onlookers to see the
game.) I didn't find out about the open-face BattleZones it until years
later.

If Atari had run out of 25" monitors for Star Wars cockpit games they could
have used 19" monitors. The deflection board and HV supply were the same for both CRT sizes.

But I agree with you that it is more likely that Star Wars cockpits with 19"
monitors are games that have been restored, and they didn't have a 25" CRT.


2)
Q: Why did Atari decide to use the blue color on the cockpit side-art,
instead of the black like on the upright machine ?

The only reason for the blue I can think of might
be that a mostly black cockpit machine could be overlooked by people in a
(dark) arcade and people could walk into them or something like that.

A:
I never even noticed it. I think your explanation is a good one.


Regards,

Jed


So no definite answers regretfully, but still some nice info IMHO.

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on November 11, 2008, 02:12:43 pm
Mmmmm, so if a PC sound card can create a demo like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1eNjUgaB-g

Could I use this instead of a scope ?

http://www.lasersandlights.com/red-laser-pocket-projector-p-17.html

And thus hack it to play SW ?

:D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on November 23, 2008, 04:11:55 pm
Wow........25000 hits on this thread. I'm honoured and flattered !!!! Thanks everyone for watching and posting. Soon this project will be in the gameroom and then the full restoration will be completed :)

In the meantime, Bruno (DarthNuno) installed his set of repro-canopy plexi's:

http://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=74.msg3815#msg3815

Not sure if it's the pics, but they look a bit darker than I'd expected. Maybe the flash etc. But I do think the black color looks better than the bronze color.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on December 05, 2008, 06:07:52 pm
Yummie !

http://www.rotheblog.com/arcade/photos-of-the-star-wars-cockpit-artwork-films/
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on February 06, 2009, 07:07:36 pm
So, since my wife went to see the Sound of Music (Musical) I was having the whole night for myself ! AHHHHH :)

Figured, since the SW cockpit was in the nicest and coziest work place (my living room) still I should do some work on it.

While playing, my son reported loss of left-right control a couple of days ago. I already heared a small thud, and indeed the small gear had come loose from the potmeter shaft. Fiddled around, and although the fixing screws are apparantly and most likely imperial sized, I found a 2 mm. hex key to work excellent. Gear is nice and tight again.

Little parts of the rubber bumpers that limit left-right have been falling off during gameplay. The sad thing is that David from RAM controls very kindly sent me some of those for absolutely free some time ago, but I can't find them anywhere. No worries, they're not lost, I know I stored them in a safe place, they will surface soon enough.

Anyway, I was still having one technical issue with the lady: she spoke to me only through the left loudspeakers (or was it right...can't remember). I removed the 4 pin connector from the AR-2 board and measured for resistance on each pair. Sure enough the good side had about 4 ohms (two 8 ohms speakers in parallel) and the other was open line.

I was kinda glad with that as it meant it probably was just a loose wire and no defects on the sound board or AR-2.

So I decided to open up the area under the seat for the first time to see what's wrong:

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2434/web.jpg)

Was glas the Mrs. was out so she didn't see that :D

Vacuuming and cleaning cleaned it up almost completely. Also soon enough I found the cause of the missing right channel sound:

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2439/web.jpg)

Strange how these have come loose. Both of them. Anyway, removed the pin and fixed the wires on a brand new pin and.....succes.....well almost.....

Now I didn't have sound on the left top speaker (the one behind your ears). I knew that one worked before...

Found out that the 2nd connector (it's the right-most connector on the first picture), that runs to the two back-side speakers had really poor contact. It looked like it had been laying in some soda or something. Need to replace the connector, for the time by-passed the connector by twisting and isolating the wires and yes, for the first time I could enjoy the game in true fake-stereo sound. Gotta love the effect !!! Jed Margolin wrote on his site that the effect didn't work out very well on the upright because the speakers are too close, but it sure works great on the cockpit !

After playing some games (and reaching nr. 2 position in the chart on SW), I checked out the insides of the cab. I must say that the HVT is running very hot. Not only that, but I also noticed some tiny sound. Like tiny sparks going on inside the HVT ! I switched off the cab and let her cool off. Switched on and no "sparks sound". After a while, when the HVT was heating up, the sound came back. I turned off all the lights to see if I could see any sparks but no such thing......

This is a bit worrying. However, I will be cooling the HVT and deflection boards with mains powered fans anyway. I did this on my friend Luc's upright and it has been running trouble free ever since....

So from now on it's cosmetics ! :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: CheffoJeffo on February 06, 2009, 07:14:21 pm
 :applaud:

/me has to stew in the juices of jealousy for a while longer

 :cheers:

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on February 08, 2009, 02:37:29 am
Keep it up Cheffo... :laugh: :laugh:

Good news: I found the "missing" parts. I actually put a number of spare parts for the SW in a zip bag. Turned out it was in a box full of PCB's.... there's spare BD509D's, convergence strips, some nice Lego SW key chain hangers, some diode's for the deflection board mod and indeed the bag that David sent me with the much needed 4 rubbber stops plus two thumbbuttons incl. springs :) Inside the bag is even the small chip of the lower side corner that was already loose when I bought it, so I will be able to fix that now too....

Installed the grey/black/colorless perspex canopy parts yesterday and it looks absolutely sweet.

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100392/DSCF2440/web.jpg)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100392/DSCF2446/web.jpg)

Pulling the protective layers off makes the perspex very static and it draws dust like nuts......should have cleaned it a bit before the pictures, but you get the idea....
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100392/DSCF2449/web.jpg)

It also painfully shows how much the metal parts need a new layer of black paint.

Planning on getting a HVLP gun for the compressor and enter the world of spray painting....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: RayB on February 08, 2009, 02:31:08 pm
Where did you get that poster? I have one too I got direct from Atari, rolled up and waiting to be framed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on February 08, 2009, 04:21:13 pm
Downloaded it and had it printed at an on-line photo printer for 8 euro's.

I was lucky that we have a customer who produces that black stuff to frame pictures in. It's black, white inside and then black again. They professionally made the cut-out (at an angle so you see the white inside, very nice).
And all for free (not the frame though, but that's an Ikea ;) ).

(The poster was discussed a couple of pages ago in this thread, there's also the link to download it, and there are more nice posters over there (like Tron):

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=68094.msg749798#msg749798)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on February 09, 2009, 05:47:08 pm
This is what rubber stoppers look like after about 25 years:

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2450/web.jpg)

Found the new one's so I'll be replacing them soon :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on February 19, 2009, 03:03:44 pm
I'm pretty surprised that this gets so little attention:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=89648.0

I ordered ! :D  :applaud:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: FrizzleFried on February 19, 2009, 03:14:37 pm
Aside from the possible undercutting of his distributor?   I dunno.  I have a kit already ... got it from Mylstar about a year ago.  I've only used a few of the parts from the kit.  No need to replace it all,  just was was broken.  Bumpers were one of the things that got replaced...mine were sticky rubbery goo...
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on February 19, 2009, 03:27:18 pm
Hah....yeah......well.....in the end that's David's responsibility....

Gives me piece of mind to have parts at hand for the day one breaks. My gears are all OK still but it's been standing still for at least 8 years (probably more). Never know what will happen now it gets played regulary. First indication is the rubber bits coming out of the yoke (see pic above). Also, the fire buttons don't work well, have to push some very hard, so I'll be replacing buttong, springs and switches. Also the pots of course, I'm sure that will improve control. I also kindly asked to include the torsion springs, which seem to be moving a bit strange on my yoke. So, I'll be using most parts and stocking some.

About the stocking of spare parts: bought two deflection boards from the bay. Now looking for a spare HV board. Also got a spare yoke (for the monitor) and a spare game PCB set (but that's a bit whacky, not 100% reliable, but hey, what can you expect for €17,50 :D).

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on March 01, 2009, 05:09:34 pm
Rich from www.ThisOldGame.com sent me one of the SW yoke artwork prints he has done from the _original_ Atari films, and I finally found a bit time to compare this one to the one on my cockpit.

First, let me say that it looks totally AWESOME. It just can't be done better IMHO. I think there's enough on the various forums but again, Rich has the original Atari films at hand and repro's this in silk-screen printing exactly like the originals.

Now, I guess everybody knows that my SW cockpit is Irish built and that we all already know that the colors of the side-art differ from the US so I already kind of expected a color difference.

The moment I saw the first pics of the new repro's I already thought the blue color was different, and the pictures I took show I'm right.

It's clear that the US blue is much lighter, almost aqua colored, where the Irish is much darker deeper blue. As you can see the artwork on my yoke is still in very nice condition and since the other colors (the red f.i.) are almost a perfect match, I can only conclude that Atari Ireland decided to use another color. They've done it on many machines and this one was no exception.

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2525/web.jpg)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2529/web.jpg)

Top side: Note that the part numbers are identical. Also note that the blue color on the CPO is matching the color on my yoke:

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2528/web.jpg)

Something that I noticed right away is that the US blue color is much better visible in the dark(ish) light of a gameroom/arcade. The flash hides that a bit on the previous pics so here are some close-ups without flash:

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2531/web.jpg)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2532/web.jpg)

It also looks like the "brown/grey" color is a bit darker on the Irish one.

Also noticable: the "dirt" (black) print is a bit "heavier" on the US version. See the right leg of the Atari logo for instance it appears to have more dirt on the US than on the Irish.

So, the conclusion is that there are difference which was to be expected between the US and Irish artwork. The printing quallity and overall quality of Rich's work is absolutely amazing, as it looks to me like it's "sharper" printed than the one on my cab. Of course age can be a factor here too.

I can only applaud Rich's work on this and I'm looking forward to see the rest of the artwork get finished.

There's only one dilemma for me: Do I put US colored artwork on my cab ? In all honesty, I prefer the US side-art colors because they are more vibrant. But I prefer the darkish blue tint of the Irish yoke/CP artwork over the US color.....

O well, it's not a very big issue. :D

Anyway, well done Rich and keep up the great work !!!!  :cheers: :cheers: :notworthy: :notworthy:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: WunderCade on March 01, 2009, 05:46:39 pm
In the U.S. we refer to that as Indigo Blue whereas the Irish blue is just, well....regular blue. Perhaps some one in the US with a Star Wars cab or cockpit can verify the Indigo color against their cab.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Spyridon on March 02, 2009, 09:19:10 am
Got my yoke artwork from Rich the other day.  Looks great.  Now I just need a Star Wars to put it on (look for a new acquistion post soon)!

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Spyridon on April 29, 2009, 11:54:42 am
Did you see this new offering from Ram Controls (http://www.ram-controls.com/order-sw-cab-cockpit.html)?:

Quote
Star Wars Cockpit Wide T-Molding
Wide 1.5" t-molding for Star Wars cockpit cabinets.  This is an exact reproduction made from the same plastic material and the same "profile" as the original.  We used the original Atari plastic extrusion die tooling to manufacture this part.  This is a drop in replacement which is 100% compatible with both reproduction cabinet and OEM cabinet.   

Price is $50
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on April 29, 2009, 12:38:36 pm
Is it available yet ? I bugged David about it and he mentioned it was already produced but that it was somewhere hard to reach....he also mailed me it would be available soon.

I'll buy that instantly when/if it's available. It's by far the ugliest part on my cockpit....

Incidentally, today I received a rubber mat from the UK. However, I decided to keep it in the cardboard roll because it's very hard to get it out so I will leave it in there until I install it.....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: m_mcgover on April 29, 2009, 12:41:07 pm
Incidentally, today I received a rubber mat from the UK. However, I decided to keep it in the cardboard roll because it's very hard to get it out so I will leave it in there until I install it.....

Originall rubber mat or replacement?  I'm looking for one to replace what was left on mine...
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Spyridon on April 29, 2009, 01:22:07 pm
Is it available yet ? I bugged David about it and he mentioned it was already produced but that it was somewhere hard to reach....he also mailed me it would be available soon

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=83763.msg964713#msg964713
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on April 29, 2009, 05:38:35 pm
Incidentally, today I received a rubber mat from the UK. However, I decided to keep it in the cardboard roll because it's very hard to get it out so I will leave it in there until I install it.....

Original rubber mat or replacement?  I'm looking for one to replace what was left on mine...
Not original I'm afraid.

I have to still say something about David here: the guy keeps amazing me. I won't put the full story here but let me tell you that 4 kits (with some extra's) got lost in shipping to Europe (first time I experienced this) but he sent 4 brand new kits through (costly !) UPS to make sure we got the stuff. To be totally honest, his replies were sometimes within hours, sometimes took somewhat more time. Because I had my friends in this deal I felt responsible to get the parts so sometimes I bugged David about it (although still on decent wording) But he stood by his word and I received the kits without any extra cost plus he added some extra's to make up for the trouble. I'm sure he didn't earn a penny on this whole deal. As always. the parts are nothing short of brilliant.

So, David's fine. I guess sometimes Real Life (tm) gets in his way. And, he is not taking any compromise, which probably explains the yoke delay....

I just read the whole story about the t-molding and it makes you understand better what and how he does things. I'm really glad he's around, without him no yoke parts and no SW t-molding.

Thank you David !  :cheers:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on May 01, 2009, 05:57:22 pm
YESSSSSS !!!!!!!

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=91998.0
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Spyridon on May 01, 2009, 06:32:13 pm
It's the little details that really make a restoration shine.  :applaud:

Can't wait to see it in place.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: m_mcgover on May 08, 2009, 11:14:15 pm
So I decided to open up the area under the seat for the first time to see what's wrong:

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2434/web.jpg)


How did you get under the seat?  From the front or the back?  Any tips are appreciated.

Thanks...
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on May 09, 2009, 01:48:03 am
Front, you can remove the panel where the speakers are mounted in.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on May 10, 2009, 04:34:57 am
m-mcgover was nice enough to measure the (missing) backdoor for me....thanks !

For "archival" purposes I link to the file here:

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=90550.0;attach=123754;image)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on May 14, 2009, 05:50:19 pm
So, let's do a little work !

Since I had moved the cockpit into "working" position in the gameroom for working on Luc's WG6100 25", and since I had built a "testing frame" for that 25" tube anyway, I figured it would be a good idea to continue work on the SW for now. I moved the Amplifone CRT to the test frame so I will be able to do the finishing touches on it's convergence. It's clear that some of the original converging strips had become loose. They tried fixing them with some tape but this came loose, so that's what caused the (not too bad) convergence issue.

I won't do any basic converging as that's fine it's just adding some new converging strips.

The Amplifone 25" med-res color CRT, the holy grail in vector monitor-ism,  (:D)  in the test-frame. I bet it's out of the cockpit for the first time after it was built :)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2769/web.jpg?ver=12423371650001)

Gee, I thought I had cleaned the screen while it was still in storage.....
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2770/web.jpg?ver=12423371780001)

So, I gave it a thorough cleaning with glassex and paper towel and what do I see......!!!!!:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2775/web.jpg?ver=12423371960001)

Screenburn !!  :scared :scared :scared :scared :scared :scared :scared :scared

Seriously, it's not that bad. I really hadn't noticed before. It's pretty light, and when it's behind the tinted bezel, it's invisible. You do see some patterns of what area get's struck by the demo screen. All in all, it'll be fine, but I won't say no to a brand new tube ;)

I cleaned everything about the CRT carefully. The backside I only did with some paper towel and very carefully at the area's that are covered with the dag. Even cleaned the wires and replaced the ty-raps that hold the degaussing ring (and cleaned that too of course). Not only does it look so much nicer clean, it's also a lot nicer to handle it (and don't get hands that look like a car-mechanic's).

While I was at it, I figured I'd remove the CRT mounts and bolts:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2783/web.jpg?ver=12423372230001)

The mounts almost look like new after some simple cleaning with hand-soap. Only a scratch here and there but no rust. That's not what I can say about the bolts:

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2779/web.jpg?ver=12423372070001)

I guess I'll do the trick with the drill and sanding paper and spray painting them ,but how about the rust on the threads.....

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: bartre on May 14, 2009, 07:24:15 pm
I guess I'll do the trick with the drill and sanding paper and spray painting them ,but how about the rust on the threads.....

i'd suggest a drill/dremel with a soft wire brush on the end.
or some fine grit sandpaper folded in half.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Spyridon on May 14, 2009, 11:11:08 pm
I guess I'll do the trick with the drill and sanding paper and spray painting them ,but how about the rust on the threads.....

i'd suggest a drill/dremel with a soft wire brush on the end.
or some fine grit sandpaper folded in half.

Yeah, I'd second that.  Use a dremel and you should be able to remove that rust in the threads in no time.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on May 19, 2009, 01:42:24 am
Done. I simply hand-sanded the tops, didn't have to remove any letters on them ;)

Chose a holder that fits to the occasion ;):
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2787/web.jpg?ver=12427112690001)

Primer:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2784/web.jpg?ver=12427112540001)

Finish:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2797/web.jpg?ver=12427112800001)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Blanka on May 19, 2009, 02:10:40 am
MMMM. mr 42, I guess the Cockpit is a HE. The cock is a pretty masculine exercise tool, and I think the pit on that has the same gender too :cheers:
Sometimes cars can be addressed with female referrals, but only when the car is a VW Beetle or some other driving cookie-can.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on May 19, 2009, 06:26:06 am
The cockpit is the grand-dame in my small collection of cabs.

She is also the best looking one by far.

She also needs to be handled respectfully and with love.

So she's a she.

And she's all mine, so I will call her whatever I want. :D

(God, I loved to be able to write that last line......heheheheheheh  :laugh: :laugh:)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on May 19, 2009, 01:34:19 pm
Much better:

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2798/web.jpg?ver=12427497760001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2801/web.jpg?ver=12427497870001)

Now, there's another part of my cockpit that's screaming to be replaced......David ??

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2804/web.jpg?ver=12427497990001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2812/web.jpg?ver=12427498080001)





Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Daviea on May 19, 2009, 03:41:43 pm
Ouch!  That's some pretty harsh looking t-molding, BUT I've seen worse.  :-)

Your new "grail" t-molding is en route, so you should have it sometime soon.

I can't wait to see the new t-molding installed on your machine!  Don't forget to show pics!!

BTW, really cool thread on your restoration.

David Adams
RAM Controls


Now, there's another part of my cockpit that's screaming to be replaced......David ??

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2804/web.jpg?ver=12427497990001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2812/web.jpg?ver=12427498080001)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on May 20, 2009, 12:59:28 pm
MAN THAT WAS FAST !!!!!  :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2829/web.jpg?ver=12428385550001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2826/web.jpg?ver=12428385430001)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Daviea on May 20, 2009, 02:41:43 pm
That might be a new personal record for an international shipment.  BTW, I sent some extra t-molding just in case.

Install it already!  :)

David Adams
RAM Controls

MAN THAT WAS FAST !!!!!  :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2829/web.jpg?ver=12428385550001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2826/web.jpg?ver=12428385430001)

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on May 20, 2009, 05:18:14 pm
 :notworthy: (http://www.ram-controls.com/RAM_Controls.jpg)  :notworthy:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Spyridon on May 20, 2009, 05:20:02 pm
This isn't installed yet?  Come on...it's been a few hours!

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on May 20, 2009, 05:46:33 pm
 :laugh: Sorry guys, had to march with the band tonight and it's almost bed-time here.

Tommorrow is a holiday here but we'll be going to the zoo. I'm off friday too so expect installed pics on friday. I do have to see if I can easily remove the new T-molding again, I'm planning to re-do the black painting on the top sides. It looks like this was either simply badly painted in the Irish factory or it is because the boards are "open" because they were cut side-ways there.....

Check out these pics that compare a US cockpit to a Irish (I hope Andy doesn't mind me linking to his pics !):
(http://www.andysarcade.net/personal/unusual/DCP08329.JPG)

It looks like the artwork has a black edge around on the top parts on the US machine, but not on the Irish. Also the angled edge seems to be better covered in paint on the US cab, which I like better. Not sure about this, of course these cabs had a different history, but from all the pics I've seen it looks like this is a difference between the US and Irish cabs.

More comparing pics:
(http://www.andysarcade.net/personal/unusual/DCP08327.JPG)

(http://www.andysarcade.net/personal/unusual/DCP08328.JPG)

(http://www.andysarcade.net/personal/unusual/DCP08330.JPG)


Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Spyridon on May 21, 2009, 09:30:01 am
Looks like the backglass is different between the two.  Got to love that control panel on the one cab  :dizzy:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on May 21, 2009, 11:49:13 am
Yes backglass are completely different. One is glas, the other (Irish) plexi. It still looks much better when lit in a (darkish) gameroom ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on May 21, 2009, 07:20:22 pm
OK. Here we go.  I know this is "just" a piece of plastic but man, does it make a difference !!!!!

---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- load of pics coming up !

First of course, it was a pleasure to finally remove the old POS T-molding.
The stuff came off easily enough. The left side was the worst part with the nails. Here's the right side, the molding there was still "OK" (compared to the other side):
The boards are still very sturdy, no small particles coming loose, nice tight cut...
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2859/web.jpg?ver=12429457870001)

The left side was not so lucky. Besides nails they also used some kit-like glue (for the Dutchies, probably Bison-kit ;) ):
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2860/web.jpg?ver=12429457930001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2861/web.jpg?ver=12429458000001)

I painstakingly removed all of it mm. by mm. careful not to damage the vinyl on the side.

Installing the T-molding was a breeze, maybe the easiest one I've done so far. It fits PERFECTLY. I simply "hammered" it in with my bare hands/fist. For the corners I used the traditional technique:

First two or three cuts with cutting-pliers:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2863/web.jpg?ver=12429458070001)

Then grap one of the parts with the pliers and twist it around until it comes loose:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2864/web.jpg?ver=12429458130001)

And the second part. Ready for installation. On the largest bend I cut out three parts.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2865/web.jpg?ver=12429458210001)

And the final results are:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2868/web.jpg?ver=12429458300001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2870/web.jpg?ver=12429458390001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2872/web.jpg?ver=12429458480001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2873/web.jpg?ver=12429458560001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2876/web.jpg?ver=12429459000001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2877/web.jpg?ver=12429459110001)


A little bit about this product from David: I had read his extensive story about the production of the T-molding. David had the mold, but the material used for this particular T-molding is different from the regular stuff. I can't tell you how incredibly true this material is to the original. It bends the same, it shines "the same" (compared on the inside) and it feels exactly the same. Details ? Yes maybe, but I call it dedication.

1:1 :
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2879/web.jpg?ver=12429459190001)

Also interesting is that there may well be a cause for the bad "staying in" of the T-molding: They didn't cut the middle part of the T-molding on every corner in the factory. Only the bends at both ends got cuts. This causes forces that wants to push the molding "out" near the bends and you often see that on pics of SW cockpits:

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2882/web.jpg?ver=12429457320001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2885/web.jpg?ver=12429459340001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2886/web.jpg?ver=12429459410001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2887/web.jpg?ver=12429459490001)

Anyway, amazing product it makes my machine SO much better looking......


O and the "some extra" t-molding is enough for another cockpit  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: Guess I'll keep it in a safe place to use it in about 20 years  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Spyridon on May 21, 2009, 09:00:08 pm
Very nice!
 :applaud:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Daviea on May 21, 2009, 11:57:54 pm
LOVE the pictures!  Your machine is looking pretty awesome!!  Would you mind if I used some of the pics on my website?

I wasn't sure if anyone was really paying any attention to the project blog on the t-molding.  It's nice to see someone reference it.  I still need to flesh it out with a few extra tidbits of information on the extrusion process itself as well as some final installation pics (which is one reason I'd like to use your pics).

Enjoy that SW machine!!!

David Adams
RAM Controls

A little bit about this product from David: I had read his extensive story about the production of the T-molding. David had the mold, but the material used for this particular T-molding is different from the regular stuff. I can't tell you how incredibly true this material is to the original. It bends the same, it shines "the same" (compared on the inside) and it feels exactly the same. Details ? Yes maybe, but I call it dedication.

O and the "some extra" t-molding is enough for another cockpit  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: Guess I'll keep it in a safe place to use it in about 20 years  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on May 22, 2009, 02:17:29 am
Yes of course you can use the pictures David, I'd feel honored and that's the least thing I can "do" in return ! :D

Maybe cool to show "before" and "after" pics ;)

Remember that I took them at night time in my rather dark game room and the lighting on that end of the room is a bunch of x-mas LEDs (starry ceiling) and a blue neon tube. This kind of gives it a nice look though ;) Also note that my canopy plexis are "custom" repro's, in that they are grey (black) colored and not the original brown/bronze tint. That was just a personal preference, I just think the black looks _so_ much better than that orignal bronze stuff.

Here's a direct link to the SW cockpit t-molding blog on David's site, it really is very interesting to read and will give you even more appreciation for David's eye to detail :)
http://www.ram-controls.com/blog-150tmolding.html

Love to see the picture of the original Atari die that David used:
(http://www.ram-controls.com/images/150tmolding00.jpg)

When I got the cockpit I thought that would be the part that never would be looking good again. I considered buying some T-molding from Outwater that was at least the right size (but different otherwise). Thank you David for making this possible, sticking out your neck, because we all know how small the market for this is (even though your market share in this product is 100%;) ).

10000 feet is about 300 meters, my estimate is that 3m is needed per cab, so you guys do the calculation what David has in stock......do we estimate that this about covers the entire fleet of cockpits in the world ? I think so. 2450 were build (at least that's the "official" number but is seems that this is for the US only, so let's say that 2000 were built in Ireland. How many of those would be left ?

David if you ever happen to visit my part of Europe, you're always welcome to come and see it all in person :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: RetroACTIVE on May 22, 2009, 12:18:16 pm
Damned you!... I've been telling myself over and over... I don't need a cockpit... I don't have the space... I don't need a cockpit... I don't have the space...

I'm starting to get the itch to find one... with RAM controls and TOG... it may get a heck of a lot easier to restore these bad boys in the not too distant future...


AHHHHHH! I hate this hobby!

I don't think I've ever commented on this thread... all great work by the way!  :cheers:

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on May 22, 2009, 01:23:00 pm
Thanks, it's been pretty slow progress so far, but I'm on a roll now. I simply _have_ to completely do the cockpit because when I add the last two cabs (SI and Power Drift are still waiting for me to pick them up) it will be not so easy to get it out (and in) the gameroom.
So, actually that's a good thing. I think my first next step now is to get every metal part from all my cabs that I want black and (very likely) have all of them sand-blasted and powder-coated in one go. That will save a lot of worries later on.

Your work on the upright is simply amazing.

I actually love this hobby......I was working on the T-molding yesterday with a smile on my face the whole time ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Daviea on May 22, 2009, 02:36:40 pm
Thank you!!  I just added five of your pics to finish up the picture section of the blog.  Let me know if it looks adequate or not.

I really do like the blue lighting -- it adds a nice effect.

Oh, and the 10,000ft is just enough t-molding to apply to 900 machines @ 11ft per game, provided I don't cut it up wrong.   I certainly hope this is enough t-molding to last awhile.  LOL  I seem to have a talent for sticking my neck out, so it's just business as usual from my perspective. :-)  I'll do anything I can to help promote our hobby and keep it alive.

Speaking of Europe, I have a pending contract requirement which means a trip to Germany in the next year or two.  Germany is pretty much right next to your area, so maybe I'll make the trip over for the heck of it.  Thanks for the invite.  I'll let you know well in advance so I don't just show up unexpectedly at your doorstep one day.  LOL

BTW, I have to say it again, this is a cool restoration thread.  I hope to see more of these sometime soon, given the t-molding and the upcoming SW cockpit artwork which will be made available by TOG. 

David Adams
RAM Controls


Yes of course you can use the pictures David, I'd feel honored and that's the least thing I can "do" in return ! :D

Maybe cool to show "before" and "after" pics ;)

Remember that I took them at night time in my rather dark game room and the lighting on that end of the room is a bunch of x-mas LEDs (starry ceiling) and a blue neon tube. This kind of gives it a nice look though ;) Also note that my canopy plexis are "custom" repro's, in that they are grey (black) colored and not the original brown/bronze tint. That was just a personal preference, I just think the black looks _so_ much better than that orignal bronze stuff.

Here's a direct link to the SW cockpit t-molding blog on David's site, it really is very interesting to read and will give you even more appreciation for David's eye to detail :)
http://www.ram-controls.com/blog-150tmolding.html

Love to see the picture of the original Atari die that David used:
(http://www.ram-controls.com/images/150tmolding00.jpg)

When I got the cockpit I thought that would be the part that never would be looking good again. I considered buying some T-molding from Outwater that was at least the right size (but different otherwise). Thank you David for making this possible, sticking out your neck, because we all know how small the market for this is (even though your market share in this product is 100%;) ).

10000 feet is about 300 meters, my estimate is that 3m is needed per cab, so you guys do the calculation what David has in stock......do we estimate that this about covers the entire fleet of cockpits in the world ? I think so. 2450 were build (at least that's the "official" number but is seems that this is for the US only, so let's say that 2000 were built in Ireland. How many of those would be left ?

David if you ever happen to visit my part of Europe, you're always welcome to come and see it all in person :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on May 24, 2009, 06:08:44 pm
Today the weather was absolutely perfect. Bright blue sky, nice temps and it's not getting dark until 22.00 h.

SO, I figured I'd do some serious work on the lady that was LONG overdue:

I rolled her outside to give her a bit of sunlight (actually shade). Better to work that way though....

First thing I had still to fix the ends of the wide T-molding. Now there are some very important things I learned.
On some bends, the T-molding had come up just a little bit. No wonder since it was not fixed at the ends. Thing is: I advice to pull a bit on the molding towards the end and then put it in the slot and fix it so it is as tight as possible.

Now,on the top, it's not too hard. Just remove the metal plate that covers the top plexi. If you feel uncertain I advice you to remove the top plexi so you can't damage it. I didn't actually do that though.

Since I now have a compressor and a nail gun, I chose to copy the original method of fixing the ends. After all, this is the best way if, let's say in about 20 years you want to remove the molding again.

Anyway, as said ,pull tight and make sure the mold is entirely flat. Then (carefully) fire away. Don't put you compressor on full pressure or you may shoot _through_ the molding....

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2901/web.jpg?ver=12432009680001)

Make sure that the molding ends BEFORE it touches the wood underneath or else it might be "pushing" itself up. A bit shorter is better than too long, you won't see that part when the metal cover is on anyway.

Now, at the other end I had some more problems. I will tell you how to do it properly right away:

Remove the marquee !!! You really should, you could well damage it or even get it stuck. I did remove the marquee because I know how valuable they are (recently one went for over 180 bucks on e-bay).

To remove the marquee, loosen the top retainer first. The marquee will still be held in place. Then remove the bottom retainer. Be very careful since when you remove the last bolt (I advice to the the middle one last !) it will go down by gravity and so will the marquee so be ready to "catch" it.
Then carefully let it slide down and put the marquee in a safe place.

Now, this side of the molding needs to be fixed on an _extremely_ short part. As usual, make the cuts that are required to make a good bend. You won't have much left of the part that goes into the slot but that's not that important.

What _is_ important is that you cut the t-molding absolutely level with the end of the board. Else you will not be able to slide the marquee back in. Also put great attention to where you aim with the nail gun. Make sure the nail will go into the wood, and not extend out of the inner part. Again, that will hinder the movement of the marquee and may even damage it (even you don't see it, there's no need to do hurt it, right ?)

I had both things happening. The solution was to remove the wrong nails (pretty nasty) and to cut the mould straight angled with a really sharp knife level to the board.

Here's a pic that makes it clear:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2900/web.jpg?ver=12432009590001)

You can see that the t-molding is way too long here. So cut it so that it's level.

Then nail away, again aim right ! (this pic is looking up from the underside)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2903/web.jpg?ver=12432009810001)

This actually still turned out to have the t-molding too long so I had to cut it with a knife. When you try to re-insert the marquee, when you feel some resistance don't push on....there's either too much t-mold or nails sticking out....

As you can see, it's extremely hard to get this bend to fit 100%. Unless you are willing to put some nails in the front side which I _DON'T_ suggest to do, it will be _very_ noticeable.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2904/web.jpg?ver=12432009880001)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on May 24, 2009, 06:22:14 pm
Further I really had to do some cleaning....

So, for the first time, I completely stripped the monitor/PCB area:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2894/web.jpg?ver=12432009050001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2893/web.jpg?ver=12432008960001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2895/web.jpg?ver=12432009160001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2896/web.jpg?ver=12432009270001)

Oops, looks like someone (tried to) steal some money from the machine.....
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2897/web.jpg?ver=12432009360001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2890/web.jpg?ver=12432008650001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2891/web.jpg?ver=12432008760001)

Luckily nothing of this shows on the outside...
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2889/web.jpg?ver=12432008570001)

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on May 24, 2009, 06:37:19 pm
I am planning on having all black metal parts powder coated. Here's some examples why:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2899/web.jpg?ver=12432009520001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2908/web.jpg?ver=12432010110001)

The top canopy plexi retainer: probably the plexi's got washed pretty often......the rust is on the underside, not on the top:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2909/web.jpg?ver=12432010180001)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2911/web.jpg?ver=12432010260001)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2912/web.jpg?ver=12432010340001)


OK, after some serious vacuuming and soapy water:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2913/web.jpg?ver=12432010430001)

Still not perfect, but it is clean. To get it better would require sanding etc. I think I'll live with this...
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2914/web.jpg?ver=12432010520001)

Now, I noticed I had forgotten about these bolts. They are weird, they're not holding anything.. just some wingnuts on the other side. Maybe this was meant for a license retainer ?
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2918/web.jpg?ver=12432011410001)


Do the US machines have these too ? (Right to the coin-door).
Anyway, that means going through the sanding-priming-painting process again....... ::)

I had planned to install the new rubber matting I received recently. BUT, there's a problem. The "steps" are fixed with bolts that I really don't recognize and they are in bad shape too. It looks like they have a square opening ?
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2917/web.jpg?ver=12432011340001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2915/web.jpg?ver=12432010620001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2916/web.jpg?ver=12432010710001)

This shows how bad the rubber is....completely worn out.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2888/web.jpg?ver=12432008470001)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on May 24, 2009, 06:43:50 pm
And finally some demo shots for David. The T-molding in bright daylight:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2905/web.jpg?ver=12432009970001)

(This also shows the nice "black" perspex that I installed instead of the original bronze one's)

This is a pretty nice picture I think, really shows off the quality:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2907/web.jpg?ver=12432010040001)

Cheers !
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on May 24, 2009, 06:52:28 pm
O, one more thing, I totally cleaned the entire wire harness, but obviously forgot to take a picture. I really enjoy doing that, all of a sudden, the harness looks like new and it's also nice to be able to handle clean wires and connectors.

Also, I noticed that the marquee is GLASS. There is a vinyl print on the outside of it, but it's not plexi as I had expected ( I had removed it in the past but forgot about that ! )
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: shilmover on May 25, 2009, 01:33:00 am
Lev42,

The square screws are called "Robinson".  They started in Canada, but are very common in the states.

I would be glad to send you a set of screwdriver/drill bits if you like.

Barry
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on May 25, 2009, 07:42:25 am
Hey Barry, first of all thanks for the offer. I'll see if I can find something locally first. I think the name is actually Robertson (did some googling).
Already found a Dutch site that sells them but minimum order is 10 pcs. of bits....

It may be a bit harder to actually find new bolts like that...... I had some small hope that this was metric stuff since it's Canadian but it's in inches as far as I've seen.

In fact, my plan is to replace all bolts on the cab. That will need sourcing a number of imperial sized bolts, so I probably will have to search Bob's site a bit....and check the manual for sizes.

The metal strips are not even mentioned in the drawings in the manual so I guess they decided to add these later....so the bolts are not in the list either.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: shilmover on May 25, 2009, 11:08:03 am
Yes.  Robertson (I misspelled the word   :dunno).

If you want, I can send you bits, you send me back a bolt/screw and I can get you some (if you dont find it)...

Oh, the lengths we go to for a restoration...   ;D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Daviea on May 25, 2009, 02:55:46 pm
These pictures really caught my eye.  I immediately noticed the small metal bracket which looks completely different from the bracket I see on American SW cockpits.  The one we have is a smaller, smooth version with no texture of any kind.  Actually, it's quite boring looking.  I've always been distracted by how plain this part looked.  The one that you have on your machine is much more appropriate for a machine like this!  I like the one you have installed on yours and now that I am aware of it, I might choose to go this way on my reproduction.  Since it was (and I am making an assumption here) installed by Atari, I see no harm in using this version rather than our version. :-)

Here's what ours looks like:

(http://www.ram-controls.com/imagedump/bottomcenter.jpg)

Here's a close up of the two brackets I removed from a cockpit cabinet awhile back.  Someone painted them black at some point in time.

(http://www.ram-controls.com/imagedump/bracketcloseup.jpg)

Anyhow, this is what ours in the U.S. look like.  I know it's no big deal, but I pay attention to these small details.  I thought it was appropriate to point it out while it was on my mind.

BTW, the bit you've been talking about is referred to as a "square drive" but it's official name is "Robertson" (named after the guy who invented it.  The official word is that they're popular in Canada, but I see them here in the U.S. all the time.  In fact, you can buy them and their tool counterpart at Home Depot and pretty much any other hardware center.  Boxer and Pro's Kit Industries sells this nice 62pc security bit driver set.  I can't find the Boxer model number, but I have one of the Pro's Kit sets here on my desk.  Model number is SD-205.  It includes four different square drive bits and runs about $10-$20 U.S.  I keep one of these kits with me everywhere I go - it's proven to be more than worth the space it takes in my toolbox.

(http://www.ram-controls.com/imagedump/proskitsd-205.jpg)



I had planned to install the new rubber matting I received recently. BUT, there's a problem. The "steps" are fixed with bolts that I really don't recognize and they are in bad shape too. It looks like they have a square opening ?
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2917/web.jpg?ver=12432011340001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2915/web.jpg?ver=12432010620001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2916/web.jpg?ver=12432010710001)

This shows how bad the rubber is....completely worn out.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2888/web.jpg?ver=12432008470001)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on May 25, 2009, 05:13:47 pm
I agree that it looks better. It also seems to be wider so it crosses the "gap" between the mat and the strip.

It looks very much like they were originally black. I have no reason to believe someone painted them later on. There hasn't been very much messing with this cab except for trying to break into the coindoor.

I will have them sandblasted and powder-coated.  I have a bit set with torx, hex you name it, but this square type is not in there and I have never seen those before. But I'm sure I can get a bit here. Even if/when I have a bit it looks like it will be a challenge to get the rusted bolts out.

David, did you ever get those sizes and angles for the canopy ? They actually are a couple of pages back in this thread ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Daviea on May 25, 2009, 06:05:19 pm
These are two GREAT pictures.  I'm glad you took them in the sunlight because I wasn't seeing the full effect of the "black" plexiglass you've been photographing indoors.  I thought it was a solid opaque black that wasn't see-through.  The "black" looks MUCH MUCH better than the original.  Now I'm torn on whether or not I should keep it original or make this upgrade.  And, yes, I do see this as an upgrade to the original because the bronze color never looked that great in my opinion.

By the way, the t-molding looks beautiful installed on your machine!!  I can't believe what a difference it makes.

I did see the measurements a few pages back.  I did not see the thickness of the material, though?  Also, I need the hole placements, if any (size and offsets from edges).  I was holding out for an original piece so I could color match, but now that wait might not be needed if I can just specify "black"....does it have a special product code that I need to worry about?  Maybe different shades of black?

Now I'm on the hunt for some of those metal brackets locally, but I fear that may be an impossible task to complete.  I am prepared to take the plunge and use the Irish version of the bracket rather than the U.S. version because it looks (and probably functions) better than the U.S. version.  Anyone have a spare bracket they can spare for a few weeks?  I just need to take some measurements and pass them along to the proper vendor.  It's entirely possible that I have the OEM extrusion mold for this, but it's unlikely since this part was most likely manufactured at the Irish factory.  I'll have to take a look through the tooling and see if I have it.

David Adams
RAM Controls

And finally some demo shots for David. The T-molding in bright daylight:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2905/web.jpg?ver=12432009970001)

(This also shows the nice "black" perspex that I installed instead of the original bronze one's)

This is a pretty nice picture I think, really shows off the quality:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2907/web.jpg?ver=12432010040001)

Cheers !
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Daviea on May 25, 2009, 06:58:19 pm
Can I get all measurements of this part, including hole diameters and lengths from each edge to center of holes?

BTW, is this considered "dark gray"?  When you purchased, did it have a model number?  Here in the U.S., the dark gray plexiglass is referred to as model number "2074"...

Thanks
 
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF1619/web.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on May 26, 2009, 12:37:41 am
I'll let you know ASAP.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on May 28, 2009, 11:21:16 am
David, I hope to have all the info tonight for you....stay tuned....

Was home early from work so let's move on !

I found two square sized bits at my local hardware store and one turned out the right size but, just like I feared, some of the bolts were so rusted (and I tried other things so maybe they wore out) that I could only get out two screws (they are screws not bolts). Why ever they chose to use these instead of regular philips type is beyond me. It's not like some vandal is going to remove them.....

Anyway, I had to go with my last resort option, making a cut in the head with the dremel. The "bad" thing is that the heads are recessed so it was very hard not to damage the metal strips while doing the cutting.
Worked out not too bad, I guess after the powder coating the small damages won't be very noticeable.


(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2919/web.jpg?ver=12435227380001)

Yugh... and also something that _REALLY_ worries me: How on earth am I going to get the T-molding replaced here ?!?!?! I could cut it under the strip of course.....
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2921/web.jpg?ver=12435227590001)

Most of the rubber comes off pretty easy but some parts are really stuck to the wood....
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2922/web.jpg?ver=12435227800001)

One more "problem". Of course they glued the rubber matting before they assembled the cab in the factory, so, the rubber runs under the "kickplate"......I cut it along the kickplate with a really sharp knife.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2923/web.jpg?ver=12435228020001)

Rubber mat, you've done your job. RIP :)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2924/web.jpg?ver=12435228260001)

And welcome brand new replacement ! It smells really......rubbery !
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2925/web.jpg?ver=12435228530001)

For the anal people amongst us: The ribs are not 100% correctly spaced. Everything else is the same, the thickness of the mat, the "height" of the ribs, it's perfect for me.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2927/web.jpg?ver=12435228790001)

I sanded the wood with my trusty Black & Decker a bit....nothing too fancy but smooth enough.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2929/web.jpg?ver=12435229260001)


BUT NOW !!!!! The tough part comes. Removing stuff is easy.....but installing the new stuff.....
I'm always SO in doubt with these kind of things, fearing to do it wrong and ruin it.....

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2928/web.jpg?ver=12435229030001)


I can't put the front part flush to the kickplate because the cuts on both ends are not straight. So I think I will let it run "over" the kickplate a bit and cut it there after glueing.
But I have to get the angle of the ribs straight....And the stuff is of course also wider than the cab......

Problems, problems, problems........and I need some glue too.

I figure now is also a good time to replace the T-molding. I got plenty of black but I'm unsure if  it's the correct width.....gonna check now.....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on May 31, 2009, 04:28:08 pm
Mainly for my own documentation but I started a little spreadsheet to document all the metal parts on a SW cockpit machine. It probably will be extended with all my other cabs as I want to document each and every part before I send them out to be sandblasted and powdercoated. I even intend to include the bolts, although I will try to simply buy new one's for all of them.

Here's the very first simple start:
http://web.me.com/andre.huijts/Site/Blog/Artikelen/2009/5/31_Star_Wars_Cockpit_Metal_Parts_files/Star%20Wars%20Cockpit%20Metal%20Parts.pdf
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Spyridon on May 31, 2009, 08:30:23 pm
I think the spreadsheet would look pretty cool with before and after  pictures of each part.

By the way, you must have spelled the last column wrong.  I can't read it.   ;D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on June 01, 2009, 04:50:51 am
OK finally did the measurements on the canopy plexi's.

Note that I measured the original bronze parts for accuracy..

The material is 3 mm thick. (I'm using metric sizes because it's so much easier for me, really don't know how to handle the 2/8, 3/32 or 5/18946 th measures you guys use....

The top (flat) part and the bend "front" part are indeed exactly the same width.

I took pics that may help.  Here's the top:
It's 58.7 cm. long:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2934/web.jpg?ver=12438447340001)

and it's 52.3 cm. wide:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2937/web.jpg?ver=12438447410001)

The center hole is exactly in the middle, so 26.15 cm from each side.

The left and right hole are of course equally spaced from the edge at 3.7 cm.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2938/web.jpg?ver=12438447510001)

Middle hole:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2939/web.jpg?ver=12438447750001)

It looks like they drilled the holes with a 14 mm. drill. It's kinda egg shaped though (bad drilling ;) ) Doesn't really matter that much, there's a pretty big tolerance for those holes.


Next the bend part:
As mentioned, same width so 52.3 cm.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2942/web.jpg?ver=12438448000001)

The holes are at the LONG bent side and spaced 8.4 cm. from the edges.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2943/web.jpg?ver=12438448100001)

On the top, there are also two small holes. They are at 1 cm. from the edges and 10 cm. from the bend on the SHORT bended edge. The 10 cm. starts at the _edge_ of the bend.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2947/web.jpg?ver=12438448290001)


I guess this would be pretty hard to reproduce exactly without having an original. I think Bruno ditched his bend canopy part after installing the repro's since his was really broken but it would have served fine as a "model" for you.

For the color code, I thought I still had the bill from the company where I ordered it which mentioned the color code. I will see if I can find it. I used the same thickness of material, 3 mm. I do have to mention that the overall look is a bit darker when compared to the bronze. As you can see on the daylight pics it is see-through though, and when looking from the inside I can clearly see my "starry night" ceiling in the gameroom. I like the repro MUCH better than the yuckie bronze color. (Bronze color seems so 70's to me, while it's a 80's game ;).
I used exactly the same material, color and thickness as monitor "glass". The original plexi (!) was hit by paint when they did the spray painting at the factory !!! Looked terrible. I think that was bronze colored too but it was thicker (5mm). However 5mm black perspex would make it too dark. I still would prefer a real glass alternative.... I thought I read that the US machines have real glass ?

About the matting: I already threw awey the old parts, I'll take a dip in the garbage bin to see if I can rescue a "good" part. And I haven't cut the new one yet so I can at least send a sample of that for you.

I'd be willing to send the "steps" too but I have to be absolutely sure they don't get lost ! No spares :S


Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Daviea on June 01, 2009, 01:59:25 pm
Thank you for all of those measurements.  I was able to fill in a lot of missing info with your measurements.  However, I still need a few more plus all of my original measurements (which I picked up off the internet) are now suspect, particularly with the large piece with two bends.

Can you give me the following measurements:

- diameter of the holes on double-bend canopy
- location of holes (on both ends) from each outside edge inward to center of holes.
- length of small bend (measured from outside center of bend to outside edge)
- length of large bend (measured from outside center of bend to outside edge)
- length between bends (measured from outside center of bend to outside center of bend)

I already have the angles which I'm satisfied with. :-)

This is what I currently have, btw:

Long bend:  27.7cm long
Short bend: 8.8cm long  (this is the one that throws me off with your 10cm measurement for the hole placement)
Middle: 18.3cm long

Were these measurements taken from above or below the canopy?  For me to draw them correctly, I need the measurements from above (or top), from centers of the bends.

Also, I'm glad to learn that the thickness is 3mm!  I was under the impression that it was 1/4" which is 6.35mm.  I was thinking that the 1/4" was way too thick, but I didn't have an original piece in front of me, so I wasn't sure.  This will bring my cost of materials down substantially!!

Thanks again.

David Adams
RAM Controls
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on June 01, 2009, 06:04:28 pm
David, I dove into my trash bin to rescue a piece of the old rubber mat for you, believe me it was not much fun to do...... ;)

I will come back about the measure for you/

I just updated the metal parts spread-sheet for those interested, here's the link again:

http://web.me.com/andre.huijts/Site/Blog/Artikelen/2009/5/31_Star_Wars_Cockpit_Metal_Parts_files/Star%20Wars%20Cockpit%20Metal%20Parts.pdf

It was my intention to install the new rubber mat today. I cut it on one edge along one of the ribs. With some minor extra cutting it was straight enough to put it flush to the kickplate. So, I searched for some glue and this looked appropriate, as least it mentioned it would (amongst others) glue rubber to wood.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2968/web.jpg?ver=12438929610001)

I was planning on glueing about 3/4th of the mat keeping it to one side. Then when it would have dried I could cut the mat to fit exactly and then glue that part. Instructions said to let the glue dry 10-25 minutes and I had to apply it to both parts. There was just enough for the 3/4 of the wood, but after only a couple of minutes the stuff was completely dry and not sticky anymore at all....

Need to get a big portion and probably the kit variant, not the gel...

Anyway, I took a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin----load of pictures of metal parts that will need powder coating/paint. Also removed the yoke for the first time.  Here's a lot of pics coming up for you.....

Speaker grill on the foot area:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2984/web.jpg?ver=12438931880001)

Again, Atari decided to use those nasty "pop" nails... These are definitely metal so could be replaced. I will have to drill them out carefully. The speaker grills near the head-area looks much better (not a real surprise).

Inside the CP. Pretty rusty. Which is a problem as I have no intention to replace the CPO at all since it looks mint. Guess powder coating this is out of the question. Painting is possible though as long as I cover the other side properly.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2976/web.jpg?ver=12438931840001)

The left-right mechanism. This yoke still centers amazingly well by the way. They definitely greased it. A lot.
There is some play on the yoke front to back (left to right on this picture). This causes the tooth gears to only make contact partly at a certain position.

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2980/web.jpg?ver=12438931860001)

Inside the yoke (up-down).
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2987/web.jpg?ver=12438931900001)

Coin door box. Some rust inside. A part on the right has been cut-out for a reason I don't know. On the bottom there's a microswitch that could be connected to an alarm (system). A sticker actually indicated that on the outside of the coindoor. (I put it on the inside)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2948/web.jpg?ver=12438926380001)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on June 01, 2009, 06:39:00 pm
Coin door. Note the extra bolts on the bottom door....there's a reason for those....
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2950/web.jpg?ver=12438926760001)

...the reason is some extra re-enforcement to prevent theft. Don't believe I have seen that before on a coin door.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2952/web.jpg?ver=12438927110001)

Marquee retainers. Top:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2956/web.jpg?ver=12438927460001)
Bottom:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2958/web.jpg?ver=12438927870001)

This is the part that covers the edges of the seat:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2961/web.jpg?ver=12438928180001)

Side view:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2963/web.jpg?ver=12438928340001)

Bottom view:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2964/web.jpg?ver=12438928650001)

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: polaris on June 01, 2009, 06:52:22 pm
hey andre,
that rubber matting, expensive?
did you measure the size of the original grooves, i've got a roll of that stuff sitting in my garden, we use it in work.
shipping would be silly money though wouldn't it. never know when i may pass through though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on June 02, 2009, 11:42:26 am
Tell me about it, I got it from a guy on the British Jamma+ forum. The stuff itself wasn't overly expensive, but the shipping !!!

It's really heavy and Royal Mail rates are insane. Thanks for the offer though ! :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Daviea on June 02, 2009, 07:29:33 pm
I drew up the canopy parts in solidworks based on measurements I had laying around.  I plugged in random numbers for the placement of the holes for now.  I created a custom material spec for the dark gray acrylic so it will show better in the pics.  These are saved JPG's directly from my Solidworks 2009 design software.

This one shows the hole placement on the large bend:  I need the diameter of the holes and the placement from each edge to center of hole:
(http://www.ram-controls.com/imagedump/sw-frontglassview01.jpg)

This one shows the hole placement on the small bend:  I need the diameter of the holes and the placement from each edge to center of hole:
(http://www.ram-controls.com/imagedump/sw-frontglassview02.jpg)

This one shows the measurements of the entire profile of the "front canopy" placed at the top edges of the material.  I need to confirm these measurements are correct and taken from the top of the glass instead of the bottom of the glass:
(http://www.ram-controls.com/imagedump/sw-frontglassview03.jpg)

This one shows a closeup of where the measurements are applied at the bends.  You might have to open the attachments to see the detail on this one:
(http://www.ram-controls.com/imagedump/sw-frontglassview04.jpg)

That's all I've got for now..

David Adams
RAM Controls
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on June 03, 2009, 03:52:42 am
At work now so I don't have the parts here but there are _no_ holes on the small bend.

Instead, these holes are at the large flat part ! They are 10 cm. from the _edge of the bend_ of the short edge. And 1 cm. from the side edges.

I still have to look for the hole diameters and exact size on the right side of the second drawing but here's some corrections:

The sizes in the drawings are double checked and correct.

The diameter of the holes is 5 mm.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on June 03, 2009, 04:40:20 am
Here's a pic of the repro's when they were still in the protective stuff. You can see the position of the holes there. (Just as a reference).

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF1604/web.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on June 03, 2009, 01:38:02 pm
So far for the easy stuff.

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=68094.0;attach=124895;image)

I'm not too sure about the sizes on the above drawing really, I think they're not correct.
It's so hard to measure though....also in production, where do you "set" the bend ?

I could try get some pics with the tape measure on top of the canopy holding it tight and than make macro pics of the bends. I e-mailed Bruno to ask if he still has that broken canopy, that would be ideal for you to measure and compare any repro's.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Daviea on June 03, 2009, 01:44:05 pm
Ok, this answers most of my questions on the hole diameters and placements.  The 10cm measurement is was threw me off.  I thought the holes were ON the small bend and the small bend isn't even 10cm long.  Whoops.

Thank you.  I just added all of these changes to the Solidworks file.

David Adams
RAM Controls

At work now so I don't have the parts here but there are _no_ holes on the small bend.

Instead, these holes are at the large flat part ! They are 10 cm. from the _edge of the bend_ of the short edge. And 1 cm. from the side edges.

I still have to look for the hole diameters and exact size on the right side of the second drawing but here's some corrections:

The sizes in the drawings are double checked and correct.

The diameter of the holes is 5 mm.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Daviea on June 03, 2009, 01:50:59 pm
I took some of your measurements I found earlier in this thread and then converted them to imperial (close approximation) before inputting them into Solidworks.  But I think your measurements might have been taken from the underside as opposed to the top side of the canopy.

When drawing these parts, I need to have the measurements from the top side, measuring from the center of the bends when possible.  When you look at the drawing, it will show sharp bends - disregard it as it's only for measuring purposes.  In reality, there will be some nice wide radius bends there.....which, by the way, is difficult to take measurements from.  Even someone experienced in taking these kind of measurements can find this task to be quite difficult if precision is important.

Closeup pictures would be great.  Then again, a real OEM part in my hand would be even better. :-)

Talk to you soon.  And thank you for all the help!!

David Adams
RAM Controls

 
So far for the easy stuff.

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=68094.0;attach=124895;image)

I'm not too sure about the sizes on the above drawing really, I think they're not correct.
It's so hard to measure though....also in production, where do you "set" the bend ?

I could try get some pics with the tape measure on top of the canopy holding it tight and than make macro pics of the bends. I e-mailed Bruno to ask if he still has that broken canopy, that would be ideal for you to measure and compare any repro's.

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on June 06, 2009, 10:15:16 am
Right.......those imperial sized hex bolts are driving me nuts (ha-ha-ha, nuts, ha-ha) !

I thought I had about all the required tools. A nice set of imperial sized hand tools, a set of all kinds of security -type bits....but it turns out I really are going to need the following hex tools to get the yoke completely dissasembled.

7/64"
9/64"
5/8"

I tried my local hardware store, they could special order 2 of the three 3 sizes, but I really need all of them.

So I checked RS online and they even don't have these sizes !

So now my hope is on some kind soul in the US or UK to get some of these for me and send them over.  Would be highly appreciated as I have the yoke apart for 50% now .......
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: FrizzleFried on June 06, 2009, 10:19:38 am
I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to use a x/64" sized wrench/socket in my life.  95% of things are x/16" or below... the probably 4.95% is x/32 and .05% is x/64.   x/64" is usally used in specialize situations.

My guess is that you were misinterpreting 7/64" which is SO close to 1/8"...
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on June 06, 2009, 11:00:08 am
Yeah, well RTFM my friend ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on June 07, 2009, 04:37:05 am
I found a site in the UK that offers ALL kind of bolts in ALL kind of systems and also in low order numbers.

Now, I need to know if all the bolts and screws on the yoke and the rest of the cockpit are UNC (Unified Course), UNF (Unified Fine) or maybe even BA (British Association). Metric of course is ruled out and I think UNC is the most likely, but I hope someone can confirm this (David ?).

Also, since Atari always omitted the "regular" bolts and other mounting hardware in their parts-listings, does anybody know what bolts all the panels etc. are fixed with ?

Thanks !
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on June 07, 2009, 05:46:57 pm
Canopy measures:

Large edge to center of bend: 27.8 cm.:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2995/web.jpg?ver=12444107850001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2996/web.jpg?ver=12444107970001)


Short edge to center of bend: 8.8 cm.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3001/web.jpg?ver=12444108290001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3002/web.jpg?ver=12444108440001)


Total length OVER the bends: 83.0 cm. Very hard to measure this because of the bends and the resistance of the measuring tape. Could be off .1 mm plus or minus.

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on June 07, 2009, 06:07:40 pm
Been working on the yoke and I can tell you, this is not the most fun part for me. Give me electronics any day over this mechanical stuff....

Anyway, I discovered why my high score is so poor:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2994/web.jpg?ver=12444107740001)

The micro-switch on the top left is non-standard. It's not supposed to have the blade. (The other one is an original one). Seriously: I never really noticed much difference between the two thumb triggers.....




Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Daviea on June 07, 2009, 08:18:29 pm
Perfect!  I have all the information I need on the canopy glass parts.  Thank you.

Next item:  the seat corner bracket.

I've drawn up a quick 3D model of the part with some dimensions called out in centimeters.  Can you refer to your OEM part and correct these numbers?

Also, can you tell if the original part is painted, powder coated or anodized?

I'm open to discussion on the finish I should apply to the reproduction part.  I really have no preference on this one.

BTW, I DO have the original aluminum extrusion mold for this part, so I can get an exact part made. :-)  I just need the placement of the holes which is a secondary operation.

Thanks

David Adams
RAM Controls
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on June 08, 2009, 01:33:10 am
I'm pretty sure it wasn't powder coated, it looks too smooth for it, but I'm not sure it's anodized or painted. Also, the years of people sliding over it has made it probably even smoother.

The sizes won't be a problem will measure them when I get back from work.

David, do you happen to know if the US built cockpits had glass on the monitor bezel or plexi ? I've worked on my friend Luc's cockpit which is US built but I can't remember !
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Daviea on June 08, 2009, 02:49:41 am
I'm leaning toward a smooth powder coat or a nice heavy black anodize.  Either should work fine.  After thinking about it for a few hours, I've decided that paint probably won't be a suitable option. :-)

BTW, I've drawn my first version of the small floor bracket based on what I see in the pictures you've taken.  It's only a loose interpretation of what the part should look like.  Once I have some real dimensions, the drawing will be cleaned up.  I included some attachments of the drawing as it is.  All of my dimensions are most likely off, but it's only a matter of plugging in the right numbers now.  All numbers are in centimeters, btw. :-)

I've owned at least six different cockpit star wars machines in the last decade alone.  Each one of them had a glass display shield (monitor bezel), not plexiglass.  I know for sure that they're glass because I broke one years ago.  I pulled it out, sat it down on the concrete floor in my garage and BOOM, it shattered into a million little pieces.  LOL  It was the only time I ever broke a piece of tempered glass, so it's a vivid memory.  I have never seen a SW cockpit with a plexiglass bezel in my life.  I always assumed from reading that it was something specific to the ones made at the Irish manufacturing plant.

David Adams
RAM Controls


I'm pretty sure it wasn't powder coated, it looks too smooth for it, but I'm not sure it's anodized or painted. Also, the years of people sliding over it has made it probably even smoother.

The sizes won't be a problem will measure them when I get back from work.

David, do you happen to know if the US built cockpits had glass on the monitor bezel or plexi ? I've worked on my friend Luc's cockpit which is US built but I can't remember !
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on June 09, 2009, 01:12:05 pm
Updated:

If you have more accurate data on the hole diameter than use that. I'm sure about the other sizes though.

Been looking at the part again and by the way it has wore it looks more and more to me that this one was anodized.

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3029/web.jpg?ver=12445684420001)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on June 09, 2009, 01:34:18 pm
I just won the battle with the most (only) stubbern screw that I couldn't get off.

The war was dirty though.....
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3025/web.jpg?ver=12445684870001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3027/web.jpg?ver=12445685210001)

I had to use the dremel on this one. I cut the complete 60 tooth gear to pieces, leaving a block that I could grip to. That block "contains" the screw that I couldn't get loose anymore. I feared that I couldn't get it loose at all which would mean needing a new shaft but it turned out just fine.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Daviea on June 09, 2009, 02:49:53 pm
Ahhh, thank you.

I think I have everything I need for the corner bracket. :-)

I don't have in-house capability for aluminum extrusion, so I need to job this one out.  Luckily, this is a thriving industry in California, so it should be easy to find a local vendor. 

David Adams
RAM Controls


Updated:

If you have more accurate data on the hole diameter than use that. I'm sure about the other sizes though.

Been looking at the part again and by the way it has wore it looks more and more to me that this one was anodized.

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3029/web.jpg?ver=12445684420001)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Daviea on June 09, 2009, 02:59:03 pm
That's one harsh looking yoke!! 

I like the method you used for removing the difficult fastener.  Myself, I try to employ brute force methods as often as possible. :-)

David Adams
RAM Controls


I just won the battle with the most (only) stubbern screw that I couldn't get off.

The war was dirty though.....
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3025/web.jpg?ver=12445684870001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3027/web.jpg?ver=12445685210001)

I had to use the dremel on this one. I cut the complete 60 tooth gear to pieces, leaving a block that I could grip to. That block "contains" the screw that I couldn't get loose anymore. I feared that I couldn't get it loose at all which would mean needing a new shaft but it turned out just fine.

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on June 09, 2009, 04:44:56 pm
I only use force when all other options have failed. I'm positive this screw was completely fixed to the aluminium of the tooth gear.

The most dirt you see comes from the dremeling of the plastic of the tooth-gear. The liberal way they lubricated the yoke makes it stick all over.....

Quiz question for the SW yoke experts: what is the missing part on this picture ?
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3025/web.jpg?ver=12445684870001)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Daviea on June 09, 2009, 05:11:03 pm
What's missing in the picture?

Spring pin
14-tooth gear
5K potentiometer
Fastener on inner collar
at least one retaining ring
at least one handle grip
all of the wiring
....a small chunk of the 60-tooth gear
oh, and a good cleaning. :-)

LOL

David Adams
RAM Controls

I only use force when all other options have failed. I'm positive this screw was completely fixed to the aluminium of the tooth gear.

The most dirt you see comes from the dremeling of the plastic of the tooth-gear. The liberal way they lubricated the yoke makes it stick all over.....

Quiz question for the SW yoke experts: what is the missing part on this picture ?
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3025/web.jpg?ver=12445684870001)

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on June 09, 2009, 05:37:03 pm
Fastener on inner collar

Haha, I probably should have phrased it differently, but THAT was the part that was already missing when I opened it...... The other fastener looks to be too long....

No problem I found a source for all the screw and bolts etc. needed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on June 26, 2009, 06:35:09 pm
OK let's get done with it, I have to face the music:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3205/web.jpg?ver=12460547450001)

Turned out I needed the entire tin of glue...

First I glued both the wood and the mat and let it dry a bit (as instructions say). Then put it in, there's NO moving around with this glue ! It was in pretty good. I couldn't take a pic since my hands were all sticky and my wife not around to take one... anyway, I went to the other side that was much harder to do. Had to cut and glue there at about the same time.

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3206/web.jpg?ver=12460541710001)

It turned out pretty decent. Not factory-like but good enough and a major improvement. So here's the usual "before":

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2888/web.jpg?ver=12435458320001)

and "after":

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3207/web.jpg?ver=12460541870001)

I re-installed the PCB set and the wiring, and pretty much everything needed to run the cab. After all, I wanted to do the "fine" convergence on my Amplifone....so here's the test set-up again that I also used for Luc's WG6100.

I was a little worried when powering it up since I had taken everything apart, but on power up  I got a comforting "The Force will be with you" and heared the well-known vector shatter-sound. When I looked at the pick I only saw the blue color though ! Since I had the problem with the green before, I checked the main connector and surely the green and red wire pins had clicked out of the connectors. Gently forced them back in place and everything was fine again.

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3213/web.jpg?ver=12460542050001)

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on June 26, 2009, 06:39:32 pm
O for David (and others): I recently visited Luc again and his cockpit (which is US built) has a glass bezel.

Just great.....now, of course, I cannot live without a tinted, non-glare glass bezel :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on June 28, 2009, 01:01:10 pm
I did the final (edge) convergence on my Amplifone and I figured some of you might like to see how it's done.

As mentioned, this is not a full converging because the center area was already perfect and it's just getting the corners convergence correct.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYB1L8AIeq4
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: KissMyWookie on July 02, 2009, 04:00:46 am
Really beautiful job you're doing.  :applaud:

The sit down SW cab was my favorite game as a kid, so it's especially nice to see that some of them are being preserved like this.

It's great that you can play TESB on the same cab too - is that just a ROM switchover board or is it a whole new game board on the new miniaturized PCB?

If you do feel like patching the particle board behind the coin door, the best thing to use would be Bondo (car body filler). Just dig out any of the loose particles beforehand and the Bondo will stick very well.

To make cleaning up the metal parts easier, use Phosphoric Acid (or Naval Jelly - which is a product sold in the US consisting of Phosphoric Acid, but is thicker and easier to apply to vertical surfaces). It dissolves the rust, leaving bare metal behind ... one thing I have found though, is that it will also remove the black oxide coating from bolts/screws too (not to mention strip off zinc plating). Another benefit to using Phosphoric Acid is that it microscopically etches the metal surface, providing a good "key" for paint.

Steve

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on July 02, 2009, 04:55:09 am
Thanks Steve,

Yeah I have some bondo around, not sure if I will do it as it's completely out of sight when the box of the coin buckets is mounted....

I did some experimenting with the phosphor stuff on the metal parts of the Pac Man joystick. Mainly because the big part is very hard to reach with any other method.  It works pretty well, but you need to do the following steps quickly as it will start rusting again very soon.

The plan is to collect all the metal parts that are supposed to be black from ALL my cabs and have them all sandblasted and powdercoated in one go. This would be most economic. And powedercoating rocks, I don't think I will need to worry about it for the rest of my lifetime..... :D

The SW/ESB kit is not really just a rom switchover only (as far as I understand it). Of course, the new eprom(boards) contain all the ROM data of both games, but there's some eleborate electronics on the main kit-board too. It comes from Mark Spaeth (you can find him on the KLOV forum).
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on July 04, 2009, 06:42:03 am
I just ordered all required bolts/screw etc. for the yoke.

I found this great website in the UK that sells all these weird screw/bolts and in both metric and imperial sizes:

http://www.modelfixings.co.uk/

Notice that they ship world-wide. They sell in small quantities for very moderate prices IMHO. Sure, maybe you can get them cheaper if you order large numbers but who needs 100's of these things (except for David  :laugh: )

The shipping prices are also very reasonable. The minium order is only UKP 3 so that's not an issue either.

I e-mailed with Ian there and on my request he added 1" long 8-32 button-cap screws, which I think are used all over the SW cockpit.

I'll put a list here with the order numbers and corresponding Atari part nrs.

I just put in my order, will report again when stuff arrives.

[edit] They also sell circlips and e-clips that are so often used on joysticks in lots of sizes:

http://www.modelfixings.co.uk/circlips.htm
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on July 05, 2009, 09:25:24 am
So, I've finalized the convergence on my Amplifone and I'm really happy with it. It's a 1000% improvement over what it was in the corners.....

BUT I still have one thing that annoys me on the monitor:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3217/web.jpg?ver=12467989340001)

Pincushion ! You can clearly see that the lines are bend inwards, while on a CRT that is curved it looks much more natural to have it (slightly) following the curve of the CRT.

Now, the story is that SW (and some other color vectors by Atari) don't have a circuit for adjusting pincushion because this was "corrected" in the "specially designed" yokes.

Well, if this is the result, I'd say they obviously didn't do a very nice job.

I guess most would say you don't really notice it in gameplay, and to some extend, that's true, but.....I just want it fixed because I know it can be better.

F.I. when playing the intro of ESB, Darth Vader's ship really looks skewed when at the right edge of the screen and than "warps" to normal in the center. It looks wrong.

Now, the designer of the SW hardware, Jed Margolin put a nice pincushion circuit on his site, that was used for Atari's early vector games like Tempest:

(http://jedmargolin.com/xy/Tmpst1.gif)

Now, I'd like to try and incorporate a circuit like that to be able to correct the pincushion as it should be.

Clay Cowgill once offered this ready built, mainly aimed at those who used a WG on SW, which as we all know has a different angled tube, and thus even worse pincushion issues:
http://www.multigame.com/display.html

However, it doesn't look like this kit is available anymore. If anyone has one around, I'm interested.

Alternatively, I'll have to build one myself....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on July 10, 2009, 05:04:28 am
There's promissing news from Clay about the pincushion corrector boards, I'll add info here soon.

Meanwhile I stumbled on this thread on KLOV forum:

http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?p=830258#post830258

where Talon2000 put up this link with a complete walk-through of a SW yoke rebuild in pictures. This is very handy to have around when you start on this job. And I thought it would be a good idea to link directly to it here:

http://picasaweb.google.com/Talon.K/YokeRebuild?authkey=Gv1sRgCLv99NCl-8jFUg&feat=directlink#

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on July 10, 2009, 09:26:21 am
....and what came with the mail today.......:

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3290/web.jpg?ver=12472322590001)

AND I have tonight ALL night for myself........operation YOKE will begin !
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on July 10, 2009, 10:37:47 am
Well that starts off really nice.

Included with the screws from www.modelfixings.co.uk there was this key-set that has all the required sizes.
(http://www.modelfixings.co.uk/images/FOLDUP%20GROUP%20SMALL.jpg)

So, using this I first released the one remaining cap-screw that was holding the front part to the back part.

Or so I thought. Because once I got it removed, I tried shifting the front and back parts loose (away from each-other) but it was _still_ stuck... So I examined what was going on and it turns out that the lower screw (there are 3) had been broken off before.......nothing I did, it already was like this.

I already noticed the last screw that I removed was not entirely straight anymore (you get that typical feeling where the screw goes nice and easy on one side, and very hard on the other...) and this probably caused that.

Look, there's no cap .....
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3296/web.jpg?ver=12472361550001)

Yet there is some remaining screw in there......:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3294_2/web.jpg?ver=12472361450001)

So, I'm royally screwed here !

I have no clue how to solve this. I could try and drill it out but it's very hard to reach and I'm sure I will hurt the thread. I could try to hammer the shaft out with force but that will very likely (at least !) scratch the inside of where the shaft is......

Gotta love this hobby, but sometimes .................. :blowup:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: KissMyWookie on July 10, 2009, 10:51:55 am
Yet there is some remaining screw in there......:
-----8<----- image snipped -----8<-----
So, I'm royally screwed here !

I have no clue how to solve this. I could try and drill it out but it's very hard to reach and I'm sure I will hurt the thread. I could try to hammer the shaft out with force but that will very likely (at least !) scratch the inside of where the shaft is......

Gotta love this hobby, but sometimes .................. :blowup:

Don't panic - there are tools for that. Search for "screw extractor".

They work by attaching to your cordless screwdriver/drill and as you operate the drill in reverse, the bit bites into a dimple (you can make one with a small drill bit - sometimes the other end of the screw extractor has one on the end) and tightens it's grip as you reverse out the damaged screw.

You'll want to soak the thread of the damaged screw in WD-40 before doing this, to release any rust or gunky soda that might make extracting it even more difficult.

If the screw is too small to even use a screw extractor, you can drill it out - preferably with a drill press and a vise. Start with a small drill and go just large enough so that the thread of the socket is not damaged. If there's any remaining bits left after that, try picking them out with dental type picks and/or driving the correct size thread cutting tool into the hole.

If all else fails, drill it out with a large enough drill bit (thread as well), cut a new larger thread on the inside, then insert a thread repair bushing to reduce the size back down to what you need.

Good luck

Steve

PS: I just took another look at your image and another option would be to use a grinder or dremel to remove those tack welds that are holding the collar on ... then you can remove the shaft with the collar attached and work on the problem more easily.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on July 10, 2009, 02:23:54 pm
Thanks Steve, great advice. The screw extractors are way too big for this and the one's I found on the web all need to have at least a head (that needs to be drilled a hole in)....and all I got was a piece of the bolt/screw inside the thread....

So I chose the drill. (In the distance a voice said: Do or do not... there is no try.)

The thing is that there probably have been problems before. Only now I noticed this:

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3302/web.jpg?ver=12472498320001)


They cut out a "half" hole on one side to have free access to that very screw-hole...... I wouldn't be surprised if they forced a wrong-sized screw in there that broke later....

Anyway, using The Force I was able to separate the front and back parts:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3297/web.jpg?ver=12472495300001)

Yes, there is now some damage inside the shaft holder, but since it's not turning there I don't think it really is a problem:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3299/web.jpg?ver=12472495340001)


Now, next step is to get the rest of the screw out of the shaft. Or.........................order a new shaft from David.........:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3301/web.jpg?ver=12472496060001)

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on July 10, 2009, 03:19:25 pm
And so.....operation yoke once again comes to a screeching halt.  :angry: :angry: :angry: :banghead: :badmood:

I gave it a bit of thought and I decided I will be replacing at least that shaft, but probably will opt for the entire "premium" kit stuff that I didn't order right away from David, which I should have.

Some advice to anyone else who starts on the journey of SW yoke rebuild: get the full (premium) kit. It will take away all your sorrows about those 25 year old,worn and maybe damaged mechanical parts.
Plus, once your working on this beast, you will never want to work on it again. Once I close the lid of this I don't ever want to have to open it again.....  :laugh:

OK then, with still some time, I can clean all the dirty gummy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- off the parts and get it as ready as possible....and I planned on sanding and painting the inside of the CP too.....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on July 10, 2009, 06:26:41 pm
Goo gone:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3307/web.jpg?ver=12472645990001)

The scratches are caused by the knife, I had to scrape the goo off with it. Am I right that the circular marks are caused because of the lacking spacer bearing ?
Anyway, will get new paint/powdercoating...

This is what was left of the bumpers....:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3305/web.jpg?ver=12472646020001)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Spyridon on July 11, 2009, 12:07:15 pm
Some advice to anyone else who starts on the journey of SW yoke rebuild: get the full (premium) kit. It will take away all your sorrows about those 25 year old,worn and maybe damaged mechanical parts.

What parts does the premium kit add?  (I could check his website, but it's probably good information for this thread)  I have the yoke rebuild, but you make a good point to only do it once.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Spyridon on July 11, 2009, 12:09:40 pm
Okay, I stopped being lazy:

Standard kit:
(http://www.ram-controls.com/images/StarWarsYokeKit1.JPG)
Deluxe kit:
(http://www.ram-controls.com/images/StarWarsYokeKit2.JPG)
Premium kit:
(http://www.ram-controls.com/images/StarWarsYokeKit3.JPG)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 05, 2009, 10:50:24 am
I had bought some cans of Rust-oleum black spray paint for "Superully" from Germany and had tested a bit, but I wanted to do a bit more testing. So I selected a part I still had to paint. Now , the plan is to have all the metal parts that need to be black of all my cabs to be powrdercoated in one go. However, I had two parts from my SW that I wanted (at least until ThisOldGame releases the full artwork set) to save the artwork from, but still needed some fresh paint.

The yoke cover and the CP.

Here's the usual pics:
Before: (not that bad really, but rust is beginning to surface. I only had to sand it lightly):
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2990/web.jpg?ver=12438931880001)

Some careful covering of the decall (yet still able to hit the edges with paint):
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3594/web.jpg?ver=12494831050001)

And the results:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3601/web.jpg?ver=12494831730001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3600/web.jpg?ver=12494831650001)

VERY nice IMHO.

The CP needed it a bit more:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2976/web.jpg?ver=12438931840001)

but I didn't sand it down completely. Only did the rusty parts and sanded everything until smooth:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3592/web.jpg?ver=12494830110001)

Again some careful masking:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3593/web.jpg?ver=12494830920001)

And the result:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3595/web.jpg?ver=12494831160001)

Very impressive IMHO ! I'm not very good at spray-can painting but this Rust-oleum really is a quality product. It dries very quick too.

Same detail under different light:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3596/web.jpg?ver=12494831310001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3598/web.jpg?ver=12494831480001)

And the decals were completely untouched by the paint I'm happy to say...

I'm kind of playing with the thought to do all the metal parts this way. Sure is a lot cheaper !
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Spyridon on August 05, 2009, 08:12:47 pm
this Rust-oleum really is a quality product. It dries very quick too.

No primer?  Lazy!    ;D

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 06, 2009, 01:32:08 am
 :laugh2:

Yes I did primer it, just forgot to take a pic :) It's three thin layers of Rust-oleum on the CP, two on the yoke cover. The pics make it look a bit grey but that's because the extreme bright sunlight from the window, it looks really black in reality.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 07, 2009, 02:42:32 pm
Working some more on the metal parts. I think I'm going to paint the parts that are more or less flat myself. The others have some pretty hard shapes to sand so those may need to be sandblasted anyway.

Something I only noticed now: The metal strips that retain the canopy plexi's and marquee have a different finish on both sides.

It looks like both sides were painted black, and then the top side was treated with some extra process to make a structure. A structure that also is more shiny than the base paint. It reminds me a bit of the Midway coindoor but this looks a lot different:

Bottom (in)side:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3603/web.jpg?ver=12496702550001)

Top side:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3602/web.jpg?ver=12496702390001)

And of course, the million dollar question is: How to reproduce it ?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Spyridon on August 07, 2009, 03:01:41 pm

And of course, the million dollar question is: How to reproduce it ?

If you can answer that one, you can also solve the Midway coin door riddle.  Looks very similar as you stated.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: SirPeale on August 07, 2009, 08:50:39 pm

And of course, the million dollar question is: How to reproduce it ?

If you can answer that one, you can also solve the Midway coin door riddle.  Looks very similar as you stated.


That's easy; Rust-Oleum textured black paint, followed by a coat of Rust-Oleum semi-gloss black.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: jwoods on August 07, 2009, 08:55:46 pm
I think this stuff might work. Rustoleum Hammertone paint. This paint has a kind of "hammered" or textured finish and covers a multitude of surface defects.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 09, 2009, 04:04:09 pm
Thanks for the suggesions. We can't seem to find the structured version of the Rust-oleum overhere.
I don't really think this is a hammered look, but there are a lot of differences called hammered.

I did some experimenting:

First I applied a layer of Rust-oleum (How do you call the even less shinier version of satin ?). Then I figured to hit it with some high gloss metal coating from Hammerite (but not a hammered paint).
I first tried a very wide opened structured roller:

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3604/web.jpg?ver=12498479010001)

Turned out like this:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3605/web.jpg?ver=12498479160001)

In essence it was what I was looking for, but the structure is just too coarse resulting in too big "blobs".

So next I tried a finer roller:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3607/web.jpg?ver=12498479350001)

This resulted in a fully covered gloss layer, although structured, again not what I was looking for. It also showed tiny air bubbles inside the paint.

Here's the three compared. Original in the middle.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3609/web.jpg?ver=12498479520001)

Apart from them not looking right, it is EXTREMELY hard to get the effects even throughout the surface of 1 piece of metal, let alone on various pieces.....

Result: FAIL


Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 10, 2009, 01:21:36 pm
In the meantime, I bought these:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/Afbeelding-208/web.jpg?ver=12499248080001)

Won't be needing those covers though  :laugh:

Now I've got to find another (matching) pair.....


 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Superully on August 10, 2009, 05:37:17 pm
nice effort regarding the paint job - i'm sure we europeans will get there eventually  ;) it can be damn hard to get stuff you americans can get at any home depot. sometimes arcade life  :censored:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 10, 2009, 05:52:35 pm
nice effort regarding the paint job - i'm sure we europeans will get there eventually  ;) it can be damn hard to get stuff you americans can get at any home depot. sometimes arcade life  :censored:
I've not given up just yet Ully ;)

I really wonder how the speakers will sound :P

Hope the transistors on the AR-2 can feed them.....8 Watts only :P

Maybe I'll put a small separate amp inside.

I also thought about something like this:
(http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/3513/bass9ok.jpg)
under the seat but that would be a bit silly right ?
 :laugh2:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 11, 2009, 12:40:07 pm
Some more work:

Removing the speaker grills. Probably because of anti-vandal reasons Atari chose to use those pop-nails to mount these:

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/Image_3/web.jpg?ver=12499677080001)


Of course, they're a pain for us because you can't remove them without destroying them. I used a drill slightly larger in diameter than the hole. This way, you "snap" off the top of the nail.:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/Image_4/web.jpg?ver=12499677210001)

This enables to remove the grill (sorry, bit out of focus):
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/Image_1/web.jpg?ver=12499676960001)

After removing the grill, I drilled through the hole completely. The rest of the pop-nail is still in there !
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/Image_5/web.jpg?ver=12499677310001)

Here's the left over tops and bottoms:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/Image_6/web.jpg?ver=12500082870001)

The bare frame of the lower speakers. As you can see the vinyl badly needs to be replaced. No wonder after all those years of heels kicking it :)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/Image_7/web.jpg?ver=12500083490002)

I removed the top grills in exactly the same way. Had to be careful when drilling through the holes, I removed the marquee to be safe !

What would be the best replacement vinyl for this ?:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/Image_10/web.jpg?ver=12499678140001)

(http://happcontrols.com/images/misc/vinylswatches.jpg)

I think we can rule out A,B,C and F which are clearly not the same. So it's D or E, what do you guys think ?
D is called Black Pica Vinyl. E is Black Hide Vinyl. I hope it's D (pica) as this is also available in 49" wide, which means you can cut it in half and still fit on (most) cabs.

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Spyridon on August 11, 2009, 03:28:33 pm

(http://happcontrols.com/images/misc/vinylswatches.jpg)

I think we can rule out A,B,C and F which are clearly not the same. So it's D or E, what do you guys think ?
D is called Black Pica Vinyl. E is Black Hide Vinyl. I hope it's D (pica) as this is also available in 49" wide, which means you can cut it in half and still fit on (most) cabs.



Hard to tell in that photo, but D may be a bit closer.  You'll probably have to get a small sample of each and match it up directly.


I had to deal with those rivets on my Centipede.  I eventually decided to leave the speaker grill in place and paint it with the rest of the cab.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: SirPeale on August 11, 2009, 05:05:03 pm
I was thinking D myself.

What are you going to replace the rivets with?  I was thinking of using carriage bolts, but not sure if I can find them in the size I need locally.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 11, 2009, 05:45:31 pm
Yeah, I think D. If it's not 100% it will be close enough.  The good thing is that I may very well be able to order it from Suzo's headquarters which is "around the corner" for me. I also asked Ponyboy, is he still around ?

Not sure how I will fix the grills back. In fact, I may very well not be using the original grills anymore. The reason is that they are simply not up to the task. I mean, these grills had a primary goal of keeping the speakers protected from heels and hands etc.  Of course, in an arcade environment this is the most important thing. This explains the construction of these grills: it's more metal than holes.
But, since I'm seriously upgrading the speakers, I am looking into using other grills. The thing is that in home use there is much less risk of the speakers getting hurt. For sound reasons, cloth would be ideal, but of course this is TOO risky. I've been looking around a bit for grills that have much more "open" area, but are still constructed of steel.

The sheer amount of metal in the original grills becomes clear when you stack 4 of them and lift them. They are _HEAVY_ ! This means that most of the area is covered with steel and thus blocking sound.

There's a great explanation about this here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speaker_grille

In theory I could use the grilles that were included with the JBL's but hey, that would look WRONG.
So, I will try to go for an original as possible look, but still improve sound as much as possible. I've already seen this:
http://www.audiogoedkoop.nl/nl/Monacor-MZF2544-Speakergrill.html
I could maybe use those and add some speaker cloth to still give it the correct look.

About the sound:
I just hooked the JBL's up. Temporarily mounted them under the seat and they sound _sweet_ !

Maybe the best thing is that these speakers have a little button that increases the highs a little bit, which works great. The result is about what I expected:
Especially the Pokeys sound MUCH better now. The music and sound effects really improved immensely.
I always knew that the Pokey could sound pretty good. I remember hooking up my Atari 600XL to our home stereo to get those great bass sounds on f.i. Donkey Kong ! :D

The voice samples gain less. This is because the sample technology in those days were simply pretty limited. The sample simply don't have much highs in them. And what's not in there, you can't (re)create. Still not a bad thing really. This is how the samples are supposed to sound. I think the much better speakers may uncover the "flaws" of the TI speech chip a bit, but it's not annoying at all.

Now, I need to get another set of these. I picked them up used for 25 euro's.

I think when having both sets installed the total result will even be better.

Of course there's also a small disadvantage. The rubbers where the cones are hanged in are larger than on the original speakers. Now they touch the wooden panels so I'll have to carve out a bit of the wood (particles).

Some pics to compare the speakers:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3694/web.jpg?ver=12500249630001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3696/web.jpg?ver=12500249760001)

Pretty unfair really. Original: Single cone (not even dual cone !). Very low weight (thus inadequate magnet). JBL: three-way system and _heavy_. Bass cone is also not paper which is good for keeping it good for a long time...
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: MaximRecoil on August 11, 2009, 09:01:23 pm
Pretty unfair really. Original: Single cone (not even dual cone !). Very low weight (thus inadequate magnet). JBL: three-way system and _heavy_. Bass cone is also not paper which is good for keeping it good for a long time...

I doubt there is much audio in Star Wars that exceeds the frequency range that the stock speakers are capable of accurately reproducing; and as such, tweeters (and especially "super tweeters") or "whizzer cones" aren't completely necessary. Most midrange drivers have a more or less flat response from ~80 to ~3,000 Hz.

BTW, paper cones are used in a lot of high-end speakers (usually treated), as well as a lot of cheap speakers (usually untreated). Many people have a preference for paper cones; they are organic and tend to produce a "natural" sound. I have a pair of 12" subwoofers that retailed for $400 a piece when new, with massive magnets, dual 4" voice coils, cast aluminum baskets, Santoprene rubber surrounds... and they have treated spruce pulp paper cones; and they have survived fine in a car environment in Maine for the last 10 years.

BTW, those stock speakers seem to be fairly high quality; higher quality than I'd expect from an '80s arcade machine anyway. The paper cones appear to be treated, and the surrounds appear to be rubber (most cheap speakers have a paper surround, which is not great). Large magnets are only required to energize large voice coils, and large voice coils are only required for large power handling, and large power handling is only required for loud distortion-free volume (by "loud" I mean threshhold of pain loud). There are other things which affect maximum volume too of course, such as Xmax, sensitivity, cone surface area, and enclosure type. None of that really applies to an arcade machine.

If you could figure out a way to hide a pair of tweeters and a pair of passive crossovers in there, you could keep the original speakers and probably have as good or better sound than your JBL triaxials, but that may not be worth the effort, especially since crossovers tend to soak up about half your power, so you'd probably need to get an amplifier for the setup rather than using the existing one.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 12, 2009, 02:54:02 am

I doubt there is much audio in Star Wars that exceeds the frequency range that the stock speakers are capable of accurately reproducing; and as such, tweeters (and especially "super tweeters") or "whizzer cones" aren't completely necessary. Most midrange drivers have a more or less flat response from ~80 to ~3,000 Hz.
My friend, you are more than welcome to come over and let your ears decide.
Never said it was necessary, it's just a lot of fun and it does sound a lot better.

Frequency range says very little over the quality of a speaker. Just like the number of Watts it can handle says anything about the quality. It's about how a speaker reproduces sound. The pokey chip (that SW has 4 off) is capable of producing some decent sounds (which is much more demonstrated on the Atari 8-bit home computers than on any Atari arcade game), as I mentioned, try hook up an Atari 8 bit machine to a stereo and listen to the DK sounds. If you play it on a tiny TV speaker it's still a lot less than through a decent Hi-Fi set-up. Of course it won't be Hi-Fi but sound does improve.
 
Quote
BTW, those stock speakers seem to be fairly high quality; higher quality than I'd expect from an '80s arcade machine anyway. The paper cones appear to be treated, and the surrounds appear to be rubber (most cheap speakers have a paper surround, which is not great).
Never said they were terrible. They're just not fabulous. You're right about the paper and rubber. For most other games, I wouldn't bother setting up speakers like this. It's just that SW has some decent music, nice sound effects and the speech of course.  SW was one of the first games that had a separate guy working on the sound. Atari never bothered until then and the game programmers had to do the sound themselves (which they didn't like) and this resulted in a lot of the games sounding like each-other.
The cockpit is much better sounding than the upright. THis is because there are two speakers right behind your ears, and two speakers in the seat. The two behind your ears reproduce the fake stereo effect much better than the upright does, simply because of their position. The seat works great as a speaker box and enhances the bass sounds a lot.

All his decided me that I wanted to improve the speakers, and as mentioned, I won't put loads of money in it, I just look for cheap but good quality second hand speakers.

Quote
If you could figure out a way to hide a pair of tweeters and a pair of passive crossovers in there, you could keep the original speakers and probably have as good or better sound than your JBL triaxials, but that may not be worth the effort, especially since crossovers tend to soak up about half your power, so you'd probably need to get an amplifier for the setup rather than using the existing one.
The JBL's have cross-over filters built in.
About the power, I was pleasantly surprised. By no means do I intend to run insane volume levels. I wanted to improve the quality of the sound, not the volume level.
This model JBL speaker has an impedance of 2 Ohms, which means it gets the most wattage out of an amp and it shows...
Turned it up quite a bit to test (higher than I will be running it) and there was no distortion at all. Of course things will start to distort when you increase the volume even further, but that goes for the original speakers as well (probably more) and as mentioned, it was fine way up to a level I would never run it on.

I could make a video, but I doubt the microphone of my camera will really make it possible to hear the difference.

All I can say, try it and you'll hear :)

(Note: the original speakers are magnetically shielded. This is often necessary for regular upright cabs because they are usually near the monitor. Since the speakers are pretty far from the monitor in a SW cockpit this is not important at all, but check this when you try this on a machine that has a speaker neer the monitor).
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: MaximRecoil on August 12, 2009, 09:20:52 am
My friend, you are more than welcome to come over and let your ears decide.
Never said it was necessary, it's just a lot of fun and it does sound a lot better.

Yes, I believe you that it sounds better, and it's due to the tweeters. I was just pointing out my theory on why Atari didn't bother with tweeters or even "whizzer cones" (the smaller cone on "dual cone" speakers, often found in OEM car speakers).

Quote
Frequency range says very little over the quality of a speaker.

That's true, however, the response curve over a given frequency range says everything about the quality of speakers. This shows the speaker's ability to accurately reproduce sound. Ideally the speaker would have perfectly flat response over its intended frequency range.

Quote
Just like the number of Watts it can handle says anything about the quality. It's about how a speaker reproduces sound.

Yes, how it reproduces sound (sound quality) is objectively measured by the frequency response curve. Peaks and valleys are bad. A roughly flat line is good (a perfectly flat line is ideal, but not plausible). And the number of watts a speaker can handle does say something about quality, but only about the quality of construction (speakers that can continuously handle high wattage have to be quality-built by default). It says nothing about the sound quality (which I assume is what you're talking about).

Quote
The pokey chip (that SW has 4 off) is capable of producing some decent sounds (which is much more demonstrated on the Atari 8-bit home computers than on any Atari arcade game), as I mentioned, try hook up an Atari 8 bit machine to a stereo and listen to the DK sounds. If you play it on a tiny TV speaker it's still a lot less than through a decent Hi-Fi set-up. Of course it won't be Hi-Fi but sound does improve.

Yes, Pokey chips are cool. The only Atari 7800 games that had decent sound were the ones that included a Pokey chip in the cartridge. Unfortunately, they only did that for like 2 cartridges. Fans of the 7800 regret that the 7800 didn't include a Pokey like the 5200 and the 8-bit home computers; because otherwise, it was a nice piece of hardware.
 
Quote
The JBL's have cross-over filters built in.

Yes, most all coaxial (and triaxial) speakers have built-in crossovers, but they are typically a simple first-order (6 dB/octave) crossover, which is accomplished with a single filter capacitor. Component speaker arrangements (separate midrange driver, crossover, and tweeter) typically have at least a second-order crossover (12 dB/octave). The component speakers I have in my vehicle have fourth-order (24 dB/octave) passive crossovers, and the active crossovers in my amplifiers have fourth order crossovers in a Linkwitz-Riley configuration. The more complex passive crossovers are the ones that really soak up the power, reducing the amount that actually reaches the speakers.

Quote
About the power, I was pleasantly surprised. By no means do I intend to run insane volume levels. I wanted to improve the quality of the sound, not the volume level.
This model JBL speaker has an impedance of 2 Ohms, which means it gets the most wattage out of an amp and it shows...

It is generally not good for your amp to run it at half the impedance it was designed for. I say "generally" because some amps have built-in protection circuits to keep them from delivering additional power at lower impedances. A typical car audio amplifier is stable at 2 ohms in stereo operation (4 ohms when bridged mono), but arcade boards typically used "amp-on-a-chip" designs, like you'll find inside a car radio, rather than the more robust toroidal transformer designs of standalone car and home audio amplifiers. However, I don't know what type of amplifer was used in the Star Wars cockpit, nor do I know the specs on it.

Now running an amplifer at a lower impedance than it is designed for won't generally harm it immediately, but does accelerate wear and tear; sort of like running your car motor at 4,000 RPM instead of 2,000 RPM.

I'm curious about how much wattage is reaching your speakers when playing at your preferred volume. You can calculate this by measuring the voltage at the speaker terminals. The formula is voltage squared, divided by the resistance of the speaker (V^2)/R. So if you measure 5 volts at the speaker terminals, that would mean 12.5 watts is reaching your speaker (5^2)/2. This will only give you a rough idea because music is dynamic, and different frequencies present different loads to the amplifier (higher frequencies = higher loads), so the wattage will jump around a bit. To measure an amplifer's output accurately, a dummy load is normally used (which is a big resistor of the desired impedance, e.g., 2, 4, 8, etc., ohms).

Quote
Turned it up quite a bit to test (higher than I will be running it) and there was no distortion at all. Of course things will start to distort when you increase the volume even further, but that goes for the original speakers as well (probably more) and as mentioned, it was fine way up to a level I would never run it on.

Yeah; I'm guessing that in the case of an arcade machine amplifier, the amplifier will start to distort the signal as you increase the volume long before any decent quality speaker will. But as you said, that point is beyond the level you'd want to hear it anyway.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 12, 2009, 09:54:36 am
Heh, you know your speaker stuff :) What do you have at home ? I've got a nice Bowers & Wilkins 600 series surround set-up. Without sub. Not needed :)

Without de-railing the thread here:

I checked wich amp is used in the SW. It's on the AR-2 board and there is one for each channel. They're mounted on the big cooling body in the center of the AR-2.

I forgot the exact type, but I looked at the datasheet and it said it could handle something like 1.6 Ohms impedance. This will get a bit tricky when I connect the second set of these. The speakers are connected in parallel, thus the impedance will half when connecting two speakers with 2 Ohms impedance, resulting in 1 Ohm impedance. Worries me a bit, but as mentioned, not too high power levels so I guess it will be fine.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: MaximRecoil on August 12, 2009, 10:42:01 am
Heh, you know your speaker stuff :) What do you have at home ? I've got a nice Bowers & Wilkins 600 series surround set-up. Without sub. Not needed :)

Nice. My brother is a fan of B&W speakers.

I don't have an audio setup at home, unfortunately (aside from my cheap PC speakers).

I do have a setup in my vehicle though, consisting mainly of "old school" pre "sellout" era Rockford Fosgate equipment from the '90s, including a pair of 6.5" Fanatic Q component speakers up front driven by a RF Power 800a4, bridged dual mono (400W x 2 @ 4 ohms), and a pair of 12" RF Power DVCs driven by an RF Power 1000a2 brided mono (1000W x 1 @ 4 ohms).

The head unit is an old Clarion with a Clarion external digital signal processor that is designed specifically to work with it. However, it needs to be replaced. It is old (no USB port or MP3 support) and it is starting to act flakey (always wanting to do a system self-test before doing anything). The speakers and amps are built like a tank though, and are still doing great after over 10 years of use in several different vehicles now.

Quote
I checked wich amp is used in the SW. It's on the AR-2 board and there is one for each channel. They're mounted on the big cooling body in the center of the AR-2.

I forgot the exact type, but I looked at the datasheet and it said it could handle something like 1.6 Ohms impedance. This will get a bit tricky when I connect the second set of these. The speakers are connected in parallel, thus the impedance will half when connecting two speakers with 2 Ohms impedance, resulting in 1 Ohm impedance. Worries me a bit, but as mentioned, not too high power levels so I guess it will be fine.

How many speakers are there, and how many amplifiers?

It is surprising that your JBLs are 2 ohm speakers. Most car audio speakers are 4 ohms, with the exception of subwoofers, which come in a variety of loads and voice coil configurations (e.g., 2, 4, or 8 ohm, SVC or DVC).
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 12, 2009, 01:10:43 pm
Your brother has great taste !

Sounds like a serious set-up in your car ! I have to do with a factory built-in system. Not too shabby, but not great either.

Speakers are a personal preference, but I believe B&W delivers the best quality for the price. In review magazines they always end up between much more expensive competitors.

I hate it that B&W doesn't make car speakers. Well actually they do, you can buy B&W car speakers but you'll have to buy a Jaguar around it  :laugh:  (http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=4295)

The SW cockpit has 4 speakers and there are 2 amps on the AR-2. So each amp drives two speakers in parallel.

I included a clip of the schematics.

By the way the original speakers cost (total) $16,22 for the upright according to Atari's cost calculation. But this is for 2 speakers and not sure if they are the same as the one's on the cockpit.

Oh and the JBL's filter is a cap and a coil.

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: MaximRecoil on August 12, 2009, 01:21:05 pm
Well you could always wire the speaker pairs in series for a 4 ohm load to be safe (that would give your amps a much easier life too, over even the factory wiring configuration). This of course, will result in half the power reaching your speakers compared to the factory setup; but you could still try it; and if you get sufficient volume from the setup, then you are golden.

Quote
Oh and the JBL's filter is a cap and a coil.

It could be a 1st or 2nd order crossover (it would need more components to be anything higher). Either way it is a better design than the simple filter cap that most coaxials and triaxials use.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 13, 2009, 05:44:31 pm
Wouldn't serial wiring effect the sound ? Never thought about that....

Anyway. I decided to give up to find the perfect solution for the metal top parts. I bought a can of Hammerite black hammered painting:

http://www.icipaints.co.uk/colours/hammerite/hammered_colours.jsp

I actually like how it turned out a lot, It's a lot more shiny than the original, but it blends nicely with the "black" plexi canopy.

I also did the vents with Rust-oleum flat coating. Turned out great too. Can't wait to replace the vinyl.

Pics:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3697/web.jpg?ver=12501994160001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3700/web.jpg?ver=12501994310001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3702/web.jpg?ver=12501994440001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3703/web.jpg?ver=12501994570001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3704/web.jpg?ver=12501994680001)

Oops, the flash shows a lot of dust on the canopy !:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3706/web.jpg?ver=12501994840001)

Better with no flash !
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3707/web.jpg?ver=12501994950001)

I like the reflection of al the lights. Maybe it's not factory original, it sure looks slick :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: MaximRecoil on August 13, 2009, 07:29:44 pm
Wouldn't serial wiring effect the sound ? Never thought about that....

It only changes the impedance. Series and parallel wiring of multiple speakers to a single channel are used interchangeably in car and home audio, depending on what the desired impedance is. Series and parallel wiring are even used in combination sometimes, which is known as series-parallel wiring.

For example, say you have four 4 ohm speakers that you want to wire to a single mono amplifier, and that amplifier is stable down to 4 ohms. Now you obviously can't wire them all in parallel, because that would present the amp with a 1 ohm load which would probably fry it in short order. You could wire them all in series and your amp could live the easy life with a nice, cushy 16 ohm load, but then it would only be making 25% of the power that it is capable of. So the solution is to wire a pair of them together in series, and also wire the other pair of them together in series, and then wire those two serial pairs to the amp in parallel; which gives us a 4 ohm load; which is exactly what we want. It would look like this:

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=68094.0;attach=129535)

A pair of 4 ohm speakers simply wired in series for an 8 ohm load would of course look like this:

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=68094.0;attach=129537)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: THE POKER BRAT on August 16, 2009, 11:18:14 am
i have an some interesting questions,..
1) Has anyone who owned a star wars cockpit had ANY touble getting the machine up or down stairs?...
2) Can it be taken apart in sections to be easily moved?   
3) Is there any pictures of the machine dissasembled to give reference?
just curious......
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 16, 2009, 05:34:12 pm
To answer your questions

1) Thank god I never had to even think about that. I especially rented an (expensive!) van with a tail gate lift because I did NOT want to lift over 200 kgs......

2) Yes it can.......with a lot of patience.....and be careful !

3) Sure:
http://andysarcade.de/data/picseries/sw_restore/overview.html

Those are pics from the cockpit of "Speleo" or Andreas from Germany. He had to store it for a long time in a small space so he took it apart....

His site is a great source of info about all vectors games: www.andysarcade.de (no worries, it's in English).
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 19, 2009, 06:08:55 pm
I ordered the vinyl. What would be the best thing to do, remove the old vinyl (from particle board) or stick it over the old stuff. I think I would prefer removing the old as the edges are getting loose. Do I use a heatgun ?

And how to save the manufacturer sticker ?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 21, 2009, 02:15:24 am
So, I decided to do all the metal parts myself. Gotta think economic at these times ;)
For the insides I use Rust-oleum mat black. The outsides will get the Hammerite.

My failing experiments meant I had to sand some of the parts for a second time...

Still love the look of bare metal....the most left part is the seat edge corner cover. It's aluminium (because of the complicated shape, it's extruded I guess). Aluminium is a lot harder to sand and get a nice smooth finish.....(not only discovered with this one, but especially with the metal parts of the Joust I did in the same "go", see my Joust thread)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3792/web.jpg?ver=12508345970001)

I think I'm starting to learn how to paint properly with a spray can....quality of the paint helps too. 3 thin layers....
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3787/web.jpg?ver=12508345840001)

Had to use flash on this pic (was getting dark) doesn't really show the quality look it has.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3797/web.jpg?ver=12508346040001)

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Spyridon on August 21, 2009, 08:27:56 am
I ordered the vinyl. What would be the best thing to do, remove the old vinyl (from particle board) or stick it over the old stuff. I think I would prefer removing the old as the edges are getting loose. Do I use a heatgun ?

And how to save the manufacturer sticker ?

On my Centipede, there was a piece of vinyl that was starting to pull off.  I just pulled on it and the entire piece pulled right off.  I think if you can get an edge up, it may pull right off for you.

As far as the manufacturer sticker, I think you'll have to cut around it and leave it (which will make putting the new vinyl on difficult).  Or if the vinyl is pulling up really easy, remove it completely, then cut it out and stick it back on over the new vinyl?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Pacman83 on August 21, 2009, 03:01:04 pm
I must say that this is a BIG restoration !
Looks fantastic, superb work there  :applaud:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 30, 2009, 04:07:52 pm
Thanks !

Big and taking forever ;)

While waiting for the vinyl and the yoke parts to arrive:

The vinyl looks really worn out, the heat around the vent has made it "shiny" there. I do want to save the stickers though.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3854/web.jpg?ver=12516620660001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3860/web.jpg?ver=12516620880001)

Funny, the staples the probably held the keys or maybe the bag with the manual etc. are still in there. Should I reproduce this ?  ;) ;) ;)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3862/web.jpg?ver=12516621030001)

I simply started peeling and some parts came of in big chucks, others not so easy but overall it is pretty easy to remove it all without any heat or tools.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3863/web.jpg?ver=12516621190001)

I will have to sand it a bit and I want to re-spray the edges in black so if there are some smal parts not exactly covered with the vinyl it won't show too much.


I managed to get the stickers of relatively undamaged but it will look a bit funny on the brand new vinyl I guess....I also kept the VAN sticker because it actually belongs to the cab now. It's from the Dutch "Allience of coin-op traders" and it has a nice 70's/80s look. I bet it was on there from the moment the machine was imported and put into service.
I scanned both....just in case ;)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/SW-20serial-20sticker0002/web.jpg?ver=12516628180001)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Superully on August 30, 2009, 04:36:56 pm
nice job on removing those stickers - stuff like that has to be saved  :applaud: and i think it's going to look good on that new vinyl, too, the happcontrols-stuff is a good match. keep up your outstanding effort, andré!
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on September 03, 2009, 04:23:28 pm
Still waiting on the vinyl  :'(

Still waiting on yoke parts  :'( :'(

Anyway, a pic I forgot, inside of the back-panel that I stripped. Yeah lot's of heat went past there
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100514/DSCF3864/web.jpg?ver=12519946210001)

This panel was screwed with a myriad of different type of screws, but I believe these were the orignals:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100514/DSCF3866/web.jpg?ver=12519946230001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100514/DSCF3867/web.jpg?ver=12519946250001)

Does anyone know how these are called and where I could find them ?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: sevenleaf on September 04, 2009, 09:45:15 am
I have no idea but have just done a quick search, do a search for black washer head screw (try philips / pozideive to narrow it down)

This isn't perfect but the visible head is a close match:

(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2306/imagepw.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: njay on September 04, 2009, 10:01:44 am
Dude? your a dutch man also?

lache !

(i said funny/laugh in dutch to him)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on September 16, 2009, 05:22:15 pm
Ja inderdaad 100% Nederlander :)

So....let's get on !

Got a call from Suzo headquarters today that the vinyl (finally !) arrived. Since I was ready with work early and already pretty much in the area I picked it up right away.

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3950/web.jpg?ver=12531328180001)

Wooohhh, they thought there was some risky stuff in there ! ;)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3951/web.jpg?ver=12531328290001)

Instead of a bazooka, all they found was 10 feet of Pica Vinyl !
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3952/web.jpg?ver=12531328000001)

More about application later ! Had to do something else first:

I never really liked the big extra resistors that Atari "designed" into the HV-pcb. First of all, positioning them in an acaptable way is pretty hard. I've seen some put upright and I've done some other "creative" positioning, but whichever way you look at it, it's clumsy.

Apart from "looking bad" there was also something else that annoyed me a lot more: They get pretty damn hot in use, and they are very close to the (brand new) caps on the board. That means they're nicely aging the caps right away again, something we don't want.

I had played with the idea to use some transistors instead of resisitors. There are designs with 78xx and 79xx voltage regulators that allow for more amps to be delivered using transistors and it seemed like a more sensible way.
However, that would require some more modifications of the circuit on the board which I didn't like. Also, Mark Spaeth pointed out that transistor or resistor, the power was still going through either of them and thus the heat would still be generated anyway.

So, next I thought about getting two wire-wound resistors that are designed to handle some serious loads and have a metal "fan" body. These are transferring heat a lot better than the ceramic one's. Now, these baby's can be mounted on a heat-sink in the way like you do with transistors and voltage regulators.

Since the heat-sink that is used by the 7824 and 7924 is not getting hot at all, I figured it could handle a little extra heat from the resistors.

Thus, I mounted the resistors on it. Had to drill some holes and I used a thin film of thermal grease. There's no need to electrically isolatie the resistors as the body is not in electrical contact with the resistor itself. I ran some thick solid core wires through the original resistor holes and soldered them as were the original one's.

Here's some pics:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3948/web.jpg?ver=12531327940001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3947/web.jpg?ver=12531328150001)


Since I'm still waiting for new yoke parts (David ?) I can't really stress test it, but I started a couple of uncontrolled games and let it run for half an hour. The resistors and heat-sink feel like skin-temperature,  so I guess it worked out really well.

More stress testing will be needed (death star explosions!) but I'm pretty confident that this is a great solution. Let me know what you guys think.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: RetroACTIVE on September 17, 2009, 09:19:17 am
I think this is a FANTASTIC idea!  I'm not crazy about the wires but hey I'll take it if it prevents the burning of the PCB and melting of the adjacent caps!

(edit)
Getting back to this idea...

I ordered 2 of these (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Caddock/MP930-50-1/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvhlCB8CTbT5PmR67RQzICTapYoJzuqUVw%3d) and am planning on mounting them to the vertical surface, drilling holes in the board for the leads to feed through....  I realize it puts them back down along side the caps but with the heat dissipation of the heat sink perhaps it will be fine.

I will be adding a fan to the cabinet as well... (this will be part of my Star Wars restore sequel)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on September 17, 2009, 06:40:10 pm
Your link is bad Retro....think it should be this :
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Caddock/MP930-50-1/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvhlCB8CTbT5PmR67RQzICTapYoJzuqUVw%3d

With hindsight, I think that will work out just fine. I had not idea what to expect from the heat generation, but it's less than I'd expected and I think you'll be fine with that solution. The heat-sink really "eats" all the heat.

The resistors I used can dissipate 15W (when on a heat-sink), so that's triple of the "original" 5W ceramic resistors. Think 30W may be a bit over the top, but it can never hurt of course ;)

[Edit] O wow, those are in a TO-220 housing, NEAT ! Never knew that these existed or I would have opt for those too ! Might be possible to drill holes where you want to install them and only run some wiring on the track-side of the PCB. That would look really tight....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: RetroACTIVE on September 17, 2009, 07:56:45 pm
[Edit] O wow, those are in a TO-220 housing, NEAT ! Never knew that these existed or I would have opt for those too ! Might be possible to drill holes where you want to install them and only run some wiring on the track-side of the PCB. That would look really tight....

Yeah... that's exactly what I was thinking (or at least tried to say)... I'm rebuilding my Amp boards now... I've got the deflection done... I'm moving on to the HV next... I will snap some pics when I get it done...
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on September 18, 2009, 01:44:37 am
The only "issue" I can think of is that those resistors will come pretty close positioned to the voltage regulators and that those TO-220 housings cannot dissipate any heat themselves. They will rely 100% on the heat-sink where the one's I used also dissipate a certain percentage through it's own body.
They can dissipate 8W themselves (so over 50%) without any heat-sink because it already has it's own. It reaches it's 15W capacity when mounted on a proper heat-sink.

That shouldn't stop you from trying though, I still think it will be fine. The voltage regulators really don't generate that much heat because the resistors take the vast majority of the load and the heat-sink used is pretty over-dimensioned for those two.

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: hatrick on September 18, 2009, 02:45:05 pm
I like that resistor idea, Level42. I have used the same type of resistors on both Sprint 2 boards I have repaired. They normally use a regular ceramic resistor in the power regulator portion of the board, but these seem to do a good job of keeping the heat off the board.
I think I will look into your method when I rebuild my Amp HV board.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on September 20, 2009, 04:28:39 pm
Ran the cab for about an hour. No fan installed, not even the factory fan on the game PCB set, but as may be known, the lower back panel is missing on my SW so it was open.

After about an hour with about 5 started (but not played) games the resistors were still quite cool. The heat-sink had gotten a bit warmer, but completely acceptable. The temp of the voltage regulators were OK too. I could keep my index finger on them for an extended time.

It may be that the voltage regulators now get a bit hotter than before, but I think it's totally within the 78xx and 79xx specs.

The extra fan aimed at the HV and deflection board (a necessity IMHO) that I will install will do the rest.


Next it was time to apply the vinyl !
Another scaring step, as I'm simply not that handy with things like that...

First I removed the staples that once held the manual, sanded the top and the sides and did some painting to get the edges covered in black to hide any imperfections that the vinyl won't cover. Not sure why but I decided to do a basic layer all over this part, but it turned out this is really not necessary.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3954/web.jpg?ver=)

Following what I've seen others do I bought some glue spray and applied it to the board first. I had expected the glue-spray to be very even but instead it spit out some glue that looked like confetti-spray.

Tried to spread it out as evenly as possible and assumed it would even out under the vinyl. So I applied the vinyl, got it on pretty OK but the uneven glue showed through in bubbles and wrinkles. I tried to flatten it out with a roller but didn't work. I let it dry for an hour or two to see if it got better but it didn't.

In the mean time I decided to do the smaller parts without the spray since I thought the vinyl itself was sticky enough by itself. These parts turned out absolutely great. Applying it is not that hard at all, simply cut a rough piece that's a bit oversized for the part. Then line out the straight (factory) edge on one of the sides and then roll off the protective layer and roll out the vinyl.

The top vent part before, you can see what age and heat do to the vinyl, it get's gray in area's and overall it looks really bad:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3955/web.jpg?ver=12534395500001)

Peeling off the old vinyl takes time and patience. It comes off but sometimes it's hard to get a "starting point" I used an x-acto knife to get some small start pieces curled up.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3957/web.jpg?ver=12534395650001)

Finally bare. Sanded it lightly after this:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3958/web.jpg?ver=12534395680001)

After painting the edges, the brand new vinyl applied. (As always poor light in the gameroom)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3959/web.jpg?ver=12534395710001)

In reality it looks much better and VERY tight. Here's the lowest backpart:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3960/web.jpg?ver=12534395790001)
(Had forgotten to cut-out the power switch hole here :D).

Because the vinyl on these parts look absolutely straight and very tight, I decided that I would probably be annoyed forever by the bubbly looking top panel:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3956/web.jpg?ver=12534395570001)

It may look quite OK on that picture, but if you look at it in detail:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3957/web.jpg?ver=12534782510001)

Not only those very obvious bubbles on the left are annoying (and there were much worse one's on the right part), but the entire surface is bubbly if you look closely.

So, I decided to get it off again before it would dry completely. It almost came off in one piece:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3964/web.jpg?ver=12534396040001)

I noticed that Happ's pica vinyl is much thicker than the stuff that Atari originally used. It's really a great product and looking what a simple thing like this improves on the looks of a cab it's tempting to do it for other cabs too.

Now, i'll have to re-sand the top panel and apply a new piece of vinyl of course....


Instead of looking for new screws for the vents I decided to simply paint them with the same Rustoleum that I used for the vents.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3963/web.jpg?ver=12534395960001)

 
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: m_mcgover on September 21, 2009, 11:09:59 am
Wow, the new vinyl'ing looks really good.  I need to either paint or vinyl some pieces on mine...originally I was thinking paint...now maybe vinyl.  Have you tried any vinyl application for pieces still on the cockpit?  My worry is getting the piece sized correctly so that it makes it to the sides, without either running up the side or coming up short.  Because I am sure my cockpit is not longer "squared", do you have any thoughts on this?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on September 21, 2009, 04:48:10 pm
Actually the only part that didn't stay on the cockpit was the big "lid". The other parts can't be removed from the cab (at least, not without completely taking it apart). It was really not that hard to do.

I put the straight (factory cut) edge completely in one corner (the one where I started to stick the vinyl), then roll off the protective layer and "fold out" the vinyl as you go. Use your hand to flatten it and be sure to get no bubbles in there.
When you reach the other (inside) corner, remove the protective layer completely, then fold the vinyl into the corner as much as possible but DON'T stick it to the other side. Get it in the corner as tight as possible, use some plastic tool to get the corner completely straight. Then you can (temporarely) stick it to the other side. Next use an x-acto knife and cut EXACTLY in the corner. Move slowly as it's very easy to come "out" of the corner... if you do it right, you get a perfect cut.


If you are in doubt between paint and vinyl, I would definitely go with vinyl. It looks SO tight !

So, it was time for V2.0 vinyl on the back panel:

First had to sand off the "old" paint and glue, which had nicely mixed to some very sticky stuff that the ex-centric sander didn't really like......but I got it as smooth as a baby skin.....
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3965/web.jpg?ver=12535608700001)

Roughly cut a piece of vinyl that's a little bit oversized for the part:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3966/web.jpg?ver=12535608120001)

Use the straight (factory cut) edge to line up the vinyl, but do _not_ align the edge to the edge of the board. Make sure it overlaps about a cm.
The reason is that 25 year old particle boards simply are not as straight as the vinyl. If you need to do "inside corners" directly on a cab, you _can_ use the factory edge though.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3968/web.jpg?ver=12535608470001)

Peel off the beginning of the protective layer on the straight edge and stick it to the board. As mentioned, make it overlap about a cm. Then "roll of" the vinyl while pulling away the protective layer. Sometimes you'll get some bubbles. With the Happ vinyl you can pull it back a bit and apply it again to remove those bubbles.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3971/web.jpg?ver=12535608800001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3973/web.jpg?ver=12535608400001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3974/web.jpg?ver=12535608310001)

Use your hand to straighten the vinyl to the board:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3976/web.jpg?ver=12535608530001)


Make sure the vinyl is entirely flat on the board. Here's two pics of the overlapping edges:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3981/web.jpg?ver=12535608860001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3980/web.jpg?ver=12535608250001)

I rollered the vinyl for the first time directly after applying it. My son shows how to do it here:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3979/web.jpg?ver=12535608040001)


Then it's cutting time ! Here's the weapon of choice (this one also shows the lovely structure of the pica vinyl):
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3969/web.jpg?ver=12535607940001)

Use a NEW blade. No use risking unclear cuts for a couple of cents....

Some people might start their cut at the top of the board, but I feel that it's pretty hard to get _exactly_ to the right spot there. So, I start a bit below the top and cut in an angle until the blade touches the board. Then simply follow the edge of the board all the way down.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3982/web.jpg?ver=12535608370001)

My son volunteered to make a little video of how it's done. He's only 7, so excuse the shaky parts, think he did pretty good for his age :D :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47T6O344vPc

After all the cuts are made, once again roller firmly (did it myself after this to have some true force ;) ):
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3986/web.jpg?ver=12535608630001)

And done ! With flash:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3988/web.jpg?ver=12535608190001)

and without flash:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3987/web.jpg?ver=12535608740001)

It looks much better in real life, I can't seem to get a good picture. It looks REALLY tight and factory fresh....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on September 21, 2009, 05:05:46 pm
Installed the vent cover. I'm a bit hasitant to put back the serial plate. It looks so tight now....not sure if it would spoil it or not....
I guess I will go for it anyway....

Before:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3854/web.jpg?ver=12529424540001)
After (what a poor picture....I'll do a better in daylight....)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3996/web.jpg?ver=12535669480001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3998/web.jpg?ver=12535669730001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3997/web.jpg?ver=12535669850001)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: patrickl on September 21, 2009, 06:28:33 pm
Very nice. Indeed the stickers look a bit off compared to the new look of the vinyl. Would be a waste to do this without them though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: m_mcgover on September 22, 2009, 08:15:56 am
Quote
Installed the vent cover. I'm a bit hasitant to put back the serial plate. It looks so tight now....not sure if it would spoil it or not....
I guess I will go for it anyway....

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3997/web.jpg?ver=12535669850001)


Level42-

First of all, thanks for the write-up and pictures...maybe I will vinyl afterall.  It does look very good.  And, checking the Happ site, the cost is pretty small for the vinyl...Hmmm....

So, do I *really* need to remove all of the old vinyl?  With some of the restoration I've done, I have pieces that are part vinyl, part bondo, part original wood.  Will the new vinyl adhesive not stick to the original stuff?  And, once this is one there, how well does it adhere?  Am I going to be gluing down edges in a few years?

I think I may make your day on the labels...depending of course on how "original" you want your cockpit vs. how "restored."  Check out this link for someone that sells replacement Atari stickers.  I cannot link directly there, but go to:

http://zinfer.com/ (http://zinfer.com/)

and click on "products" tab on the top.  From there, you can purchase replacement Atari labels.  You may need to work with him since yours is Ireland and his are likely US.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on September 23, 2009, 10:29:06 am
Thanks !!!!!

I had actually seen these before and was looking for them like nuts !!!

I'm not sure though.

Take a look at this picture:
(http://www.brentradio.com/images/Warlords/Big/Warlords40.jpg)

And also the pics on the guy's site:
(http://zinfer.com/arcadepage/asteroids/labels/DSCF0002.jpg)
(http://zinfer.com/arcadepage/asteroids/labels/DSCF0024.jpg)

I'm turning on anal-mode here, so forgive me:
First of all (and most noticable): the repro is much less shiny than the original. It looks like the repro is simply printed on a gray layer instead of silver.
Second the positioning of the logo, text etc. doesn't seem 100% right.

This is not to say that I won't get these, but when you go through the trouble of reproing those, these are pretty essential details. It's very cool that he will do the original serial number on the stickers for you though....

And indeed, I bet it's US only. I'll drop him a mail. I've scanned my serial sticker but I lack the skills with Photoshop to get this reproduced perfectly, nor do I have the tools to "emboss" the serial nr. on it.

It's a compromise either way: Go with a not entirely perfect repro or use the far from new looking original ?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on September 27, 2009, 05:22:59 pm
Well this sunday was a lovely day with bright sun and some very nice temperatures for this time of year, so I decided to take out the lady for probably the last time this year.

Here's some pics that really show the nice new vinyl:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF4001/web.jpg?ver=12540854340001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3999/web.jpg?ver=12540854390001)

Think I did three "sessions" of painting bolts and screws...
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF4003/web.jpg?ver=12540854410001)

So, next up was the front of the cab (although I still don't know what's front and back on a cockpit). Before:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF4006/web.jpg?ver=12540854670001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF4009/web.jpg?ver=12540854620001)

Pretty nuts, I even did a part that will be fully covered by the marquee holder....
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF4004/web.jpg?ver=12540854740001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF4008/web.jpg?ver=12540854880001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF4011/web.jpg?ver=12540865430001)

Removing the old vinyl takes loads of time and patience and it was already dark when I installed the vinyl. Bad thing I can see some "bare parts" here and there....gotta cover it up a bit.... but the overall look is a LOT better IMHO.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Spyridon on September 27, 2009, 06:18:36 pm
 :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on September 28, 2009, 03:33:56 pm
Tell me. How bad would it be to upgrade the seat area a bit. After all, these games had to be in arcade area's where drinks and food and abuse were all around. But now, they're in a safe place. And it will get extended play by single persons. The SW cockpit seat isn't exactly a very comfortable one.

This:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=69991.0;attach=84042;image)

made me think about a very bad idea.....how about some nice leathered seating. But then, done in stylish black of course. Something like my gameroom stools....
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=40179.0;attach=52900;image))....

Mmmm....probably not fitting the budget at this time but still.......a nice idea......

It could be done with "loose" boards so they could be taken out if needed, to keep it 100% original...
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: patrickl on September 28, 2009, 05:39:00 pm
If you go to the market they usually have a stall that sells fabrics and foam. You could create your own padded seat.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Muerto on September 29, 2009, 05:25:57 am
wow! impressive! what a timeconsuming job! - but surely worth it!
The venyl you are using, where do you buy it?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: SirPeale on September 29, 2009, 09:31:50 am
I would not do leather seating, but I would do vinyl.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on September 29, 2009, 12:18:53 pm
Nah, vinyl gets hot and sweaty, I'm old enough to remember "fake-leather" car seats.  :laugh:

Vinyl comes from Suzo-Happ. Suzo head office is pretty close to where I live. Since Suzo and Happ merged, I can order about anything in the Happ catalogue (but regretfully not CRT monitors, when Happ still sold them).
The good thing about it is that there's no shipping costs, no minimum quantity, no customs hassles and I can get it straight from their counter. They do charge some extra of course, compared to the direct US dollar prices of Happ, and of course I have to pay 19% VAT.

The vinyl type is pica. It's not a 100% match, but it comes very close.

http://www.happcontrols.com/vending/acesor/49057200.htm


Rich from thisoldgame.com sells "atari" vinyl, .

There's an interesting thread on KLOV forum about vinyl that shows the "Atari" vinyl (Oracal 651):

http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=105105&highlight=vinyl

Patrick: My wife's uncle owns a rather large chain of stores (Duifhuizen) in leather, bags and suitcases etc. His son does all repair work for Delsey and Samsonite in the Netherlands. Other sons are on markets (Travel-Man) with purses and bags etc. The old man (and I mean that in a very respectful way) did the leather cushions on those stools and I had to only pay the material costs, which is still not really cheap because of furniture leather in good quality=expensive. But it looks and feels and sits amazing.

Still.....this was just an idea.....got much more important things to fixe first. Like the YOKE !

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on September 29, 2009, 12:32:57 pm
If you though I was done vinyling.....
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF4012/web.jpg?ver=12542416990001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF4015/web.jpg?ver=12542417070001)

I put the JBL speakers in the marquee section to hear what it sounds like. I'd say impressive. Still need to pick up another set.
I also need to look into the speaker grills.

The seat also has to be re-vinyled. The seat itself is the same vinyl that Atari used on all the parts I did before. Pretty amazing that it's so durable. The back board seems to be covered with the laminate that is also used in kick-plates on games like Centipede and Missile command, because it's totally smooth without any structure. Not sure if I will replace this. Maybe I can put some new vinyl over it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Muerto on September 29, 2009, 12:35:48 pm
speaker grilles? - what´s wrong with them?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on September 29, 2009, 12:36:49 pm
Read all about speakers, grills etc. a couple of pages back in this thread :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: hatrick on October 02, 2009, 11:02:33 am
She is looking good. Nice work! I'm hoping to get started on my UR soon. Everytime I walk out to the garage, I have to overcome the urge to work on it to get some other stuff done first! I need to sell a couple games so I have room to work on it  ;D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 09, 2009, 11:06:08 am
“Help me Obi-Wan Davidobi. You’re my only hope.”
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Daviea on October 11, 2009, 02:41:09 pm
Hey Andre,

Your project has come a long way and it's looking real good!!

I just wanted to let you know that I was able to use that bracket and recreate the solidworks model for it.  I've attached a JPG version of the model so you can SEE what it looks like.  It turned out perfect.

Anyhow, I just sent over a couple of semi-lengthy emails your way, so watch for them.  Please get back to me ASAP, too.

I love the attention to detail, btw!!

Talk to you soon.

Dave
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 11, 2009, 05:33:42 pm
Wow, that looks like you can actually touch it !

I just e-mailed you a reply with some explanation...more later.

Cheers, and thank you ! :applaud:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Daviea on October 12, 2009, 03:31:00 pm
I was interested in this specific topic because I've been meaning to reproduce those stickers myself. 

I went to check out their size (zinfer.com) but it's not working.  Does anyone have pictures or more information on whatever they have/had available??

Maybe they have a NEW website??

Thanks

Dave


Quote
Installed the vent cover. I'm a bit hasitant to put back the serial plate. It looks so tight now....not sure if it would spoil it or not....
I guess I will go for it anyway....

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3997/web.jpg?ver=12535669850001)


Level42-

First of all, thanks for the write-up and pictures...maybe I will vinyl afterall.  It does look very good.  And, checking the Happ site, the cost is pretty small for the vinyl...Hmmm....

So, do I *really* need to remove all of the old vinyl?  With some of the restoration I've done, I have pieces that are part vinyl, part bondo, part original wood.  Will the new vinyl adhesive not stick to the original stuff?  And, once this is one there, how well does it adhere?  Am I going to be gluing down edges in a few years?

I think I may make your day on the labels...depending of course on how "original" you want your cockpit vs. how "restored."  Check out this link for someone that sells replacement Atari stickers.  I cannot link directly there, but go to:

http://zinfer.com/ (http://zinfer.com/)

and click on "products" tab on the top.  From there, you can purchase replacement Atari labels.  You may need to work with him since yours is Ireland and his are likely US.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 14, 2009, 06:19:01 am
Yikes, they seem to have disappeared !

I only got that picture of that Atari Football cocktail a page or 2 ago......

David, my wife just called telling me a package from the US had arrived !!!

Thank you "Obi-Wan Davidobi" !!  :cheers: :applaud: :applaud: :cheers: :cheers: :applaud: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

I'll write you an e-mail tonight.....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 23, 2009, 04:25:03 pm
Right...

I've been plucking metal parts from various cabs that will need to be restored. The idea is to powder coat them, but I want to know the price first (hey's, it's a crisis). But they'll have to see everything first of course.

Anyway, I stripped the coindoor, and it's always a bit hurtful to see that something that looks pretty good at first glances, is in fact not that good at all....

First look, not bad:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF4035/web.jpg?ver=12563111650001)

and indeed, the upper door still looks very nice:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF4036/web.jpg?ver=12563111730001)

The real problem, is the lower door:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF4038/web.jpg?ver=12563111820001)

Star Wars obviously wasn't only very popular with players, but also with people who tried to earn some quick cash.
You can see the damaged rim. It's also the reason for those big extra holes and carriage bolts. These are not that terrible, at least they are spaced even. But look at those extra screws at the bottom.....unbelievable....

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF4039/web.jpg?ver=12563111940001)

They're holding this:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF4042/web.jpg?ver=12563112250001)
No idea what's that doing there, but it's already in the trash of course.

The other holes were for some extra protection against thieves:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF4040/web.jpg?ver=12563112000001)

And judging the edge of the door, there was a need for it:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF4041/web.jpg?ver=12563112170001)

Of course, they're not needed anymore and they are HEAVY. Out they go !
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF4043/web.jpg?ver=12563112340001)

The worst thing is that these metal pieces created a big dent on the top of the door when thieves again tried to break it open....

So, I'll have to fix those things. Or find a better door. I'm very tempted to remove the like-new door from my Mame cab........
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 23, 2009, 05:43:54 pm
Hot news, the SW cockpit CPO repro by ThisOldGame.com (http://www.thisoldgame.com/New_TOGpages/Cpos/SWCKPTcpo.htm) is NOW available !

(http://www.thisoldgame.com/New_TOGpages/Cpos/IMG_3738b.jpg)


As probably well known, this is printed with the _original_ films from Atari. Rich had to do a LOT of work to get these 100% perfect. The search for the right vinyl, and problems with the original films (http://www.coinopspace.com/profiles/blogs/starwars-the-cockpit-cpo) all had to be solved, but here it is !


Now............... I am in serious doubt.

Of course, I have no doubt about wether I will order and install the full side-art set once it's ready.

But, should I get this as well ? On one hand, my CPO and yoke cover still look 9/10. Also, the Irish colors are of course a bit different (see earlier in this thread). On the other hand, if I get the full side-art, it will get "US" colors anyway. So, the inside should probably match the outside.....

Really unsure what to do, let me know what you guys think !!!!!
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: BamBam on October 25, 2009, 10:14:15 am
I still remember playing that game for the first time and thinking that gaming graphics just didn't get any better than this.  I probably deposited enough quarters in that thing to buy my own new one.  When you get tired of it (hopefully before Christmas), feel free to Fedex it to me  ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 25, 2009, 11:54:53 am
I still remember playing that game for the first time and thinking that gaming graphics just didn't get any better than this.
Little did you know that you were right ! ;)

  I probably deposited enough quarters in that thing to buy my own new one.  When you get tired of it (hopefully before Christmas), feel free to Fedex it to me  ;)
You won't believe the offers I've had for it....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: RayB on October 25, 2009, 06:17:49 pm
9/10 ? Keep em.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Bluepoint on October 28, 2009, 01:07:26 am
m-mcgover was nice enough to measure the (missing) backdoor for me....thanks !

For "archival" purposes I link to the file here:

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=90550.0;attach=123754;image)

Maybe this was already covered here. But didn't the original back doors have standoffs built into them? Like this:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 28, 2009, 02:10:45 am
No. Never seen those on any other SW cockpit, or the drawings. Must be operator installation.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: ckong on January 10, 2010, 10:29:43 am

(http://www.gameroom.be/gazet/images/image/GameRoom/CS-GR-HBVL.jpg)


LOL

'Hersteller' André Huijts. Hersteller is German for 'manufacturer'. Since when did you get into the arcade manufacturing business André?

BTW, this article is not in German language, but in 'Belgium Dutch' language
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on January 10, 2010, 04:08:09 pm
Erik, I know you worked a lot in Germany and live pretty close to the German border, but "hersteller" in Dutch means "degene die iets herstelt".  (he who repairs something)

herstellen = repareren (=to repair)

:)

Onze zuiderburen hebben soms mooie uitdrukkingen. Bestel nooit een biertje maar altijd een pintje. Een timmerman is een schrijnwerker. En zo kunnen we nog wel even doorgaan.

(For the English speaking people here, The Norhtern part of Belgium speaks Dutch but it's sometimes quite different from "real" Dutch. We usually call it Flemish. I quite enjoy it because it sounds much more soft then our hard tongue)



Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: ckong on January 10, 2010, 04:32:05 pm
OK, thanks for clearing this up  :applaud:  ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Spyridon on January 13, 2010, 07:34:10 pm

herstellen = repareren (=to repair)



I like manufacturer better!

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: ckong on January 15, 2010, 09:42:52 am

other posters (http://www.cinemasterpieces.com/cinestarwars.htm) from the star wars saga.  I dont know if you've seen all of these but I think they are cool.


And very expensive  :o  You can buy at least one SW cockpit for every poster posted.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on January 15, 2010, 01:52:39 pm
That can't be right, can it ?!?!?!

Insane !
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: ckong on January 15, 2010, 02:54:05 pm
Great topic, and GREAT restoration project.  :applaud: :applaud:

André, my friend, I am sure that you know exactly what I feel right now, it will only be a few more weeks before I will have my own SW cockpit.  :)  And I am very happy that you live almost around the corner of my place (I mean, 175 km's is less than a 2 hour drive), it will be easy to share information and help each other (although, I suppose that I will be the one asking all kind of questions  ;D )

I'm looking forward to our road trip.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Spyridon on February 19, 2010, 04:34:13 pm
ThisOldGame  (http://www.thisoldgame.com/products/star-wars-cokpit-backglass)just announced preorders  (http://www.coinopspace.com/forum/topics/preorder-star-wars-cockpit)on the cockpit backglass.

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: ckong on February 19, 2010, 05:25:18 pm
That is good news  :applaud:

Although my cockpit is an euro version, I probably still will order this one as I also will replace the Euro cockpit art with US art.

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on February 26, 2010, 05:18:27 pm
Not sure if Rich is reading up here, but how about selling the film only ? It's a bit risky/unnecessary/costly to ship the glass IMHO ?  Can't be hard to get a piece of glass locally...

Once again, I'm in doubt. My original Irish one is in almost perfect condition. Yes, it will match the side-art sets (that I definitely will get) much better of course. But my cockpit is going to be a "hybrid" anyway since I've decided to leave the original artwork on the inside of the cab.

Rich, if you're reading this, here is also an official request to not forget the carton-bezel. So far, I've seen the original cockpit bezel present on only one machine: mine. I've seen about 6 or 7 other cockpits and they all lack the bezel (or have them in poor quality).
I also officially offer mine up for scanning/measuring etc. if that should be needed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on February 27, 2010, 05:43:02 pm
In the mean time, I finally got my powder coated parts back !!! Woohoo !

There are "matt" black parts (which look grey with flash pictures) and some "shiny" parts. There are also Euro-Joust, Missile Command Cabaret top "retainer" and Pac Man (Spyridon !) parts in the lot, but I'll list them here anyway....

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100675/DSCF4875/web.jpg?ver=12673030280001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100675/DSCF4878/web.jpg?ver=12673030340001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100675/DSCF4879/web.jpg?ver=12673030260001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100675/DSCF4886/web.jpg?ver=12673030330001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100675/DSCF4883/web.jpg?ver=12673030460001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100675/DSCF4882/web.jpg?ver=12673030430001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100675/DSCF4887/web.jpg?ver=12673030410001)

I LOVE the handles, they are SO much nicer now. And it goes for all the other parts as well of course !

Gotta thank Superully for helping me to get these things powdercoated !!!


Now, I've got everything that it takes to re-assemble the yoke: the powdercoated parts, the bolts and screws, the full RAM controls rebuilt kit, the only thing I need now is............time ! :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Spyridon on February 27, 2010, 09:38:18 pm
That powder coating looks nice.  I really need to find someone locally that can do that for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: ckong on February 28, 2010, 09:10:50 am
Not sure if Rich is reading up here, but how about selling the film only ? It's a bit risky/unnecessary/costly to ship the glass IMHO ?  Can't be hard to get a piece of glass locally...

+1



Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: SirPeale on March 01, 2010, 03:44:50 pm
That powder coating looks nice.  I really need to find someone locally that can do that for me.


If you can't find anyone locally, the guy I share shop space with owns a powdercoating business.  He's been doing almost exclusively mail-order style.  He custom-coats car audio equipment mostly, but I've been trying to get him to branch out into arcade parts.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Daviea on March 25, 2010, 07:42:13 pm
This is my most favorite thread ever!!!  Whenever I come back to check it out, there's always so much more cool stuff to read and look at.  LOVE IT!!!!

BTW, those powder coated parts sure do look purdy!!

Dave
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on March 26, 2010, 06:37:55 pm
Thanks David :D

The yoke turned out fabulous, as I expected !!! ;)
Congrats on finishing it, I'm sure it's a relief ! :D


Yeah, the powder coating looks brilliant !

So, since spring has started, "arcade season" is open again :) I hope to start re-assembling my yoke soon. Gonna need some of that stuff to lube the gears ;)

(Damn I still need to send you something.....I think I will go ask some advice how to ship it....)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Daviea on March 26, 2010, 07:32:42 pm
No problem.  I've been using this thread of yours as a reference point on and off for quite some time now.  There's just so much good info packed into it, I can't help but to return often. :-)

I'm really happy with the yoke and how it turned out.  Yes, definitely a relief!!

Whatever you need, just send me your shopping list and it's done. :-)

No hurry on that part -- I know you're a busy guy, so I haven't bothered you about it.  Whenever you can get it over to me, I'll start the process.  BTW, I'm going to be laser cutting those acrylic parts, most likely. :-)  Why?  Because I can!  LOL

Thanks

Dave
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on April 01, 2010, 05:43:35 am
It was a hard decision, but I decided to sell the SW cockpit.

Since it's not likely any US buyers will be intrested, I put this on the Dragonslairsforum:

The reason why is also explained there.

http://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?board=10.0 (http://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?board=10.0)

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: hatrick on April 01, 2010, 02:19:52 pm
It was a hard decision, but I decided to sell the SW cockpit.

Since it's not likely any US buyers will be intrested, I put this on the Dragonslairsforum:

The reason why is also explained there.

http://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?board=10.0 (http://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?board=10.0)



I'm interested. I have a container truck full of bronze age and early 80's Atari games shipping from the Netherlands next week. There is room on it for your Star Wars cockpit. Name the price.  ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on April 04, 2010, 05:14:02 am
Of course selling the SW cockpit was a 1 april fool.........

Somewhat related, just ordered this great shirt for my son......
(http://files.hm.com/media/products/825/DXL805_73551_09090_71_0145.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: ckong on April 04, 2010, 07:08:28 am
Great T-shirt, where did you order it?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on April 04, 2010, 04:15:19 pm
H&M, but I'm afraid it's kid's size only:

http://shop.hm.com/nl/shoppingwindow?dept=BARN_STPO_OVE_TSHIRT&shoptype=S (http://shop.hm.com/nl/shoppingwindow?dept=BARN_STPO_OVE_TSHIRT&shoptype=S)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: ckong on April 04, 2010, 08:08:41 pm
haha, and you know that I don't have a kid size   :laugh:

But I was thinking of it as gameroom decoration.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on June 23, 2010, 04:52:29 pm
Love this video. What I love most is the absolutely minty fresh look of the cab......

Atari Star Wars Programmer Greg Rivera Interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJCqiJM9THo&feature=player_embedded#)

Be sure to set it to 480 for a much clearer sound.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: wp34 on June 23, 2010, 09:50:31 pm
Love this video. What I love most is the absolutely minty fresh look of the cab......

Atari Star Wars Programmer Greg Rivera Interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJCqiJM9THo&feature=player_embedded#)

Be sure to set it to 480 for a much clearer sound.

That is pretty sweet.   :cheers:

Too bad the video isn't a touch better.  I watched War Games in HD recently and it was cool seeing a mint Galaga in HD glory.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on June 26, 2010, 06:18:19 pm
While we are at SW video's (and because there is no serious news about this restoration) , this is pretty funny, Darth Vader recording voice instructions for TomTom, be sure to watch it completely to the end :)

YouTube - Darth Vader recording for TomTom GPS - behind the scenes (http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=2ljFfL-mL70#)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: saleem on June 26, 2010, 06:28:27 pm
so,your in danger of your tom tom throttling you with the power of the darkside?
:laugh:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on June 27, 2010, 04:45:51 am
Yeah:

http://starwars.tomtom.com/voices/index-starwars.php?Lid=4 (http://starwars.tomtom.com/voices/index-starwars.php?Lid=4)

It's kinda funny.....the weak part is that it doesn't randomly play different instructions. I mean it always says the same words, just like with a normal TomTom instruction voice.
This makes it grow old pretty quick if you use it a lot (like I do). Still the TomTom is the best Dutch product since the CD player ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on July 01, 2010, 02:25:42 am
Guys, I'm in deep ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, the Empire arrested me for reconstructing a rebel X-wing simulator:

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100675/Mark-20Huijts-2001-06-2010-20-2510--20166_2/web.jpg?ver=12779653860001)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: opt2not on July 01, 2010, 02:43:23 am
 ;D Looks like you gave that storm trooper a bit of a rough time before he caught you.  ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 09, 2010, 04:54:24 pm
Finally another update on this ever-lasting project ;)

I've reassembled the yoke !!

All I still need to do is the the wiring and the handles :)

The stupid thing to happen: I finally had everything I needed. The wonderful RAM controls repair kit, the right new cap screws, a very nice too for use on Imperial sized hex cap-screws and even the Nyogel had arrived.

Everything went well. The only thing that is a real problem was screwing down the cap-screws that hold the steering to the handle assembly. I cannot reach it with the current hex tool I have:
(http://www.modelfixings.co.uk/images/FOLDUP%20GROUP%20SMALL.jpg)

This is an excellent quality tool, it was cheap (bought it from www.modelfixings.co.uk (http://www.modelfixings.co.uk)) and I've used it a LOT since I bought it ! However, the drawback is that these don't have a "short"  angled part with which you can tighten the screws..... the two who are angled on the place where the steering part is fixed to the handle part are impossible to reach with it.
I tried tightening them in several ways but have only partly succeeded.

So.....now all I need is ONE Hex Imperial size  7/64  key.........I so have another Imperial sized set of keys, but of course THIS size is not in it....I HATE the imperial system RAAAAAGHGHGHGHGH ! ....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: polaris on August 09, 2010, 05:10:20 pm
t bar hex keys are what you want, can only find them in sets though, i think i know a place that sells them individually if you cant find them over there.
link (http://www.engineering-supplies.com/product/6477/bondhus-standard-hex-t-handles-graduated-length-inch-set-of-8-332-764-18-964-532-316-732-14-in-box/)



not seen him yet by the way, i haven't forgotten about asking
 :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 09, 2010, 06:34:20 pm
Actually those are not what I want because I can't reach it with a long straight tool. It needs to have the 90 degr. "hook" to be able to use it. The folds of the base of the handle make it impossible to reach the screws with a longer tool, that's why my tool won't work...

O and thanks for not forgetting ;) ;)

I was actually expecting someone to say "Pics or it didn't happen" so, here goes:

All the "ingredients" I need:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF5727/web.jpg?ver=12813920510001)

Handle assembly finished:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF5728/web.jpg?ver=12813920560001)

Steering assembly finished:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF5729/web.jpg?ver=12813920610001)

READY ! (Well, apart from the wiring and handle stuff....
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF5730/web.jpg?ver=12813920670001)

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 09, 2010, 06:38:50 pm
This actually isn't that hard at all to do. It looks hard before you begin, but it's pretty easy really. I did screw up one time, had the shaft of the steering the wrong way around so the clip was on the wrong side too.
Had to reverse a couple of steps to correct it, but nothing to worry about.

Can't wait to finish it tomorrow.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: ckong on August 09, 2010, 06:49:35 pm
.... Can't wait to finish it tomorrow.

.... and play the game!  8) Your son will be very happy I guess, the little SW addict.  ;) :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: shrunkenmaster on August 10, 2010, 03:17:32 am
Actually those are not what I want because I can't reach it with a long straight tool. It needs to have the 90 degr. "hook" to be able to use it.

Could you put it in a vice and bend it 90deg? Just a thought. By the way, I always have every size handy apart from the one I need too  :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 10, 2010, 06:29:22 am
Ha yeah....
Well the problem is solved. turned out I could fit in a (metric ?) scredriver exactly so it's now nice and tight.

I did have to screw up again to solve it this way though......turned out I had forgotten to put the big spacer between the steering and the handle assembly, so I had to get all the three cap-screws loose again !

Anyway, it worked out great, now soldering wires !
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 10, 2010, 08:32:08 am
RAAAAAAAAHHHH , I just tested the yoke and everything works fine. So next I wanted to mount it to the panel BUT the powder coating layer is SO thick on the threads that the nuts won't grab !  :banghead: :banghead:

I wish they had taped off a little more when they did the job, another lesson learned !

Now, how to get this stuff off from a thread ? I guess I will head for the DIY store and pick up a Dremel wire brush thingy.....sigh...
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: ckong on August 10, 2010, 09:27:22 am
Never a dull moment. Arcade restoration jobs always end up being very exciting. But heads up, you're almost there.  :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 10, 2010, 11:03:17 am
Yeah, and I bet you'll love the lessons I've learned on the job ;)

I found another nut laying around and tried that. It seemed to fit. However, I'm sure that this is not the right size. I put all the parts in a bag and the 4 other nuts were not in there for nothing....
So I put on the other nut just to give it a test spin.

Well it works, however there are a couple of things not perfect yet.

1) Left trigger fire goes off spontaneously every now and then. I bet a bit of wire is touching some metal part somewhere (and this triggering). You seriously don't want spontanous fire in the trench ! (No force !)
2) in the test screen the pots show a bit to the left when it's physically centered, guess I will have to adjust the tooth gear one notch
3) the yoke is leaning a bit to the right. I would have loved to see it fully centered by the new kit....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 10, 2010, 02:06:41 pm
Well I picked this one up. It's supposed to be the toughest one in the range of Dremel:

http://www.dremeleurope.com/dremelocs-nl/Product.jsp;jsessionid=204228576CC1C30AE91A0CF78CC05250?&ccat_id=498&prod_id=175 (http://www.dremeleurope.com/dremelocs-nl/Product.jsp;jsessionid=204228576CC1C30AE91A0CF78CC05250?&ccat_id=498&prod_id=175)

It cost almost freaking  € 6 !!!! And it is TOTALLY worn out after doing 4 tread posts ! :badmood: :badmood:

I mean, wtf this is original Dremel "Quality" ?

OK, I know powdercoating is tough stuff so it's probably that I "abused" it.

Anyway, another €6 to add to the cost of this cab .....  ::)

At least it worked ! I managed to get the nuts on using the brilliant imperial sized tool-set that Spyri sent me !! This set has already proved it's worth in gold !!!

More later...
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 10, 2010, 02:55:17 pm
Something in between :

Retroactive has written a doc how to do the TO220 power resistor mod:

http://home.comcast.net/~retro-active1/pwpimages/Amplifone-HV-TO220-ResistorMod.pdf (http://home.comcast.net/~retro-active1/pwpimages/Amplifone-HV-TO220-ResistorMod.pdf)

Excellent stuff and totally recommended for any Amplifone HV board !
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 10, 2010, 06:25:03 pm
Alright. Almost done.

The spontaneous left trigger activating was an easy fix. I measured it and sure there was a couple of 10's of k Ohms on it. Not good, should be totally open. Moving it made it worse.
Turned out the soldering and wire end was a bit too long and touched the metal of the handle cover. Cut it and fixed.
(Note to myself, get some decent reading glasses, you need them !)

I re-centered the potmeter and that's perfect now.
It's still leaning to the right a bit (physically). Maybe I'll add a little weight on the left inside of the yoke to get it perfect, but it's only a tiny bit but I'm a bit anal I guess....

So fired up the cab again. I noticed after some time that there were issues with the monitor (!) Not sure what, but it looked like connection problems. Pressed all the connectors again and problem seemed gone. Will have to look at this later.

Here are some earlier pics:

Uh-Oh, I forgot something:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF5732/web.jpg?ver=12814752940001)

All this mechanical stuff is nice, but it's NOTHING without some wiring...
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF5731/web.jpg?ver=12814753250001)

Soldered the firing buttons. I compared David's new microswitches with the old one's, and wether it is because of use or something else, the old once felt easier to push, and I'm a sucker for quick firing (believe me you need it). I only replaced one microswitch because that wasn't original anymore and was one with a metal blade (which amazingly worked OK, but still).
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF5733/web.jpg?ver=12814753100001)


Can't say I notice much difference between the microswitches in game play. I put the new one on the right trigger, I guess the spot where I'm at my "strongest"....

Put in the trigger, and thumb button. And of course the springs. I've been on the floor at least 5 times to find back one of those springs !
See the point where the trigger swivels around ? (Top left). Had to scrape of the powdercoating there too because of course it needs to move without any resistance.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF5734/web.jpg?ver=12814753180001)


Well, while testing I still found another issue. Sometimes the movement from left to right was really slow...sometimes it didn't reach the edges.... I found out that maybe the solderings of the pot maybe touching metal of the pot itself. I haven't put it in the things that hold the wire in the correct position (ty-rap saddles, it that the right name ?) so still need to do that.

But otherwise.......my god, it was worth it ! It feels SMOOOOOOTH like a baby ! It handles great !!!
Thank you David for doing this kit. Wouldn't know how this cab would have turned out without your brilliant stuff !

Even though I'm out of practice I was able to score a very decent score (for me that is :) ):
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF5738/web.jpg?ver=12814753010001)


Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 10, 2010, 07:13:29 pm
DSCF5737 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwzXjsAXfC4&feature=youtube_gdata#)

Hey, Single handed play ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: opt2not on August 10, 2010, 07:22:58 pm
Nice job Level! Great updates in the last few days!  :applaud:

It's a wonderful feeling getting the controls right for a favourite game, it's amazing how the proper controls really make the experience.

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Spyridon on August 10, 2010, 09:20:32 pm
You didn't mame this yet?



 ;D
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: ckong on August 11, 2010, 02:10:17 am
Congratulations, very nice job.  :applaud: Its great that we see each other in a few days, can't wait to try out the game myself.  ;D

By the way, your monitor convergence is indeed spot on, wish I could say the same for mine.  Fortunately for me most of the game images is displayed by using only primary colors.  :-\
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 11, 2010, 02:39:04 am

It's a wonderful feeling getting the controls right for a favourite game, it's amazing how the proper controls really make the experience.

You're absolutely right. The yoke wasn't half bad when I got the machine but still the improvement is huge.

@Spyri: WAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA !

@Ckong: Actually, I noticed a little blue running out of the purple letters......but I do have to admit that this is by far the best looking 25" Star Wars I've seen so far. Not bragging, I'm just very lucky that the tube is in great condition still and the convergence was very nice too.

I wish I could guarantee you that I can get a perfect convergence if you would buy a new tube. I do think we could get it a lot better than the low-res tube you have now but well, I haven't done it before yet. Not sure if Speleo already did his, it would be good if he could share his experiences with it....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: ckong on August 11, 2010, 02:44:17 am

I wish I could guarantee you that I can get a perfect convergence if you would buy a new tube. I do think we could get it a lot better than the low-res tube you have now but well, I haven't done it before yet. Not sure if Speleo already did his, it would be good if he could share his experiences with it....

I'm ready to go for that challenge!  :) But we talk about it later.

But now for the big question: Is your Star Wars restoration project now officially completed and finished?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 11, 2010, 03:48:14 am
As you know Erik, no piece of art is ever finished.

Still to do (see the first posting for an update) some things...
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 12, 2010, 06:45:21 am
DONE !

Man, it was good to put everything in this area back:

First I recovered the cardboard bezel from the attick. Lot's of new dust on it. I had already touched up the black at some spots. Not the most brilliant job, but it doesn't need to be, it works fine inside the cab. Restored/ re-enforced the corners and put it back into it's original shape:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/f1084645/web.jpg?ver=12816092930001)

Yes, yes much better. It's funny how important for the overall experience these "little things" like this cardboard bezel and the real bezel are....
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/f1093605/web.jpg?ver=12816092980001)

Time to replace the rusty old bolts and nuts. To my utter surprise, the originals (were they?) are metric ! Maybe only on the Irish cockpit ? Anyway, bought brand new bolts but of course had to paint them.
Also bought wing-nuts because these are areas that you will open "regularly" so I don't want normal nuts there...
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/f1096549/web.jpg?ver=12816093030001)

Put back the bezel.....turns out you have to completely remove the CP to be able to put the bezel back in without damaging anything....
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/f1105445/web.jpg?ver=12816093160001)

Yes, yes, very nice !
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/f1099525/web.jpg?ver=12816093100001)

Of course, I had to (test) play some more now everything was back (in this area). Improved my high score by a notch....
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/f1108357/web.jpg?ver=12816093230001)

Still things to do,  but at least it's a playable machine again now.....
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: opt2not on August 12, 2010, 01:27:56 pm
Man, the colours out of that monitor is just gorgeous. So bright and crisp!

I've never had a chance to play the cockpit version of this game, it must be a great experience, especially with a newly restored cabinet and controls.
...at least I can live vicariously through these pictures!   ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Spyridon on August 12, 2010, 01:47:32 pm
Man, the colours out of that monitor is just gorgeous. So bright and crisp!


Yeah, I noticed that too.   My 6100 is definitely not that vibrant.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 13, 2010, 07:21:43 am
Not wanting to brag but it's even better in real life. The blue is a bit light on the picture.

In all honesty the picture on my Amplifone is the best I've seen so far on any 25" cockpit. I've seen a couple of them now, and well I guess I'm just lucky that the tube is in pretty nice condition. AND that the convergence was great to start with.
It has a slight burn-in, but you can only see it very close to the screen and without the plexi in front of it. I'm also very lucky that it doesn't have a center burn like so many have.

I have done nothing to change or improve the colors. Of course I did do some tweaking on the HV levels/screen level etc. but not the color settings.
The whole set-up (tube, deflection board, HV board) are all still the originals (same XY no. sticker). I also think the PCB set is the original.

The strange thing is that none of the stuff inside has the "UR: xxxx" or "SD: xxxx" labels on them that you see on every US board.Maybe the Irish factory didn't use them.


At opt2not: Playing a SW upright is playing a video game. PLaying it in a cockpit with 25" Amplifone is flying out in space.

The difference can only be experienced. F.I. my local friend RobbinHolland who is also into this hobby played it for a very short time the other day, and he said he wasn't really much interested by SW but that this was MUCH more intense than he expected.

It probably sounds very silly but I STILL keep ducking away for the catwalks in the trench level !!! I think the guys who made this game created a masterpiece by getting the feeling of it so well done.
Imaging that this was only a couple years after the first Space Invaders were hopping around in B/W........
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: opt2not on August 13, 2010, 01:37:02 pm
At opt2not: Playing a SW upright is playing a video game. PLaying it in a cockpit with 25" Amplifone is flying out in space.
Haha, awesome! :) That sounds so cool, I'm jealous!
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 13, 2010, 05:22:39 pm
If you want to see a larger version of that picture: http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/f1108357/web.jpg?ver=12816093230001 (http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/f1108357/web.jpg?ver=12816093230001)

The picture is definitely not focussed though !
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 13, 2010, 05:25:27 pm
Love this video. What I love most is the absolutely minty fresh look of the cab......

Atari Star Wars Programmer Greg Rivera Interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJCqiJM9THo&feature=player_embedded#)

Be sure to set it to 480 for a much clearer sound.

About this video. Been watching again and I noticed the yoke handles (I think my new 27" iMac helped a bit in seeing it better :D ):
The handles look different (although you can't see much of it). They actually look more like David's repro handles ! Much more straight than the "bent" one's that were in Atari's production...
The covering seems to have a matt finish, not shiny, it _could_ even be plastic....what do you guys think ?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: funkytaco on August 26, 2010, 10:51:17 pm
It's my second post here, and I've ready through alot of this thread. Very nice work. :)

What's left? Just a touchup here and there?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 28, 2010, 04:32:34 pm
See the first posting for the still to be done stuff. I actually already did some work on the small parts (test-switch and coin counter holder, speaker grills etc.) but not finished yet.

Too many things happening in the hobby AND the end of my holiday seriously messed up my progress.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Rusty Shackelford on September 05, 2010, 02:56:00 pm
Exellent restoration L42! :notworthy:

Just one question: Do SW cockpits come with castors as standard or are they fitted by arcade owners? What stops yours from moving around are the castors braked? (opps that 2 questions).
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on September 06, 2010, 03:35:11 pm
Thanks !

The manual answers your question(s) (See attached clip).

The legs on my cab are all broken off. I just have it on the casters, the cab doesn't move around that much really. It's not like in an arcade where people would lean etc.



Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 11, 2010, 05:03:21 pm
Time for an update:

Ever since I restored the yoke I had some problems with playing the game every now and then. It felt like the steering was "lagging".

First I thought there was some shorting of the solderings to the metal of the yoke going on because I hadn't put back in these yet:

(http://img-europe.electrocomponents.com/largeimages/R7066987-01.jpg)

I ordered 50 of them and put back the two like they were originally.

Still the same result though. The lagging is probably caused because the SW program constantly "interprets" the pot values. I guess when there are some quick odd values, they will get "averaged out". Jed Margolin mentions something about either not using the POKEY's inputs for the pots or not on his site.

I was at a loss because basically everything seemed fine. I checked all the wires and solderings again, and found the cause:
The black wire of the left-right pot felt like there was a break in it near the soldering. A few moves later indeed it broke completely. Re-stripped and soldered and now finally working PERFECT ! :D

I also sanded and spray painted the metal coinbox:

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2948/web.jpg?ver=12797319140001)

This side was the worst:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF5945/web.jpg?ver=12868299480001)

Turned into this (because of the very bright sunlight it looks grey, it isn't really)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF5947/web.jpg?ver=12868299530001)

Also restored the utility panel:

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF2899/web.jpg?ver=12797320060001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF5930/web.jpg?ver=12868308810001)

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 11, 2010, 05:12:53 pm
I also ordered a side-holder for a large fan plus required connector & wire.

(http://img-europe.electrocomponents.com/largeimages/R468286-01.jpg)

(http://img-europe.electrocomponents.com/largeimages/R507450-01.jpg)

I already have a good working Papst (my favorite fan brand) 230VAC fan for the HV and deflection boards.
I will experiment to see if one fan can be sufficient. If not, there will be another one added.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on October 12, 2010, 12:45:46 pm
Received the holder and wire. I somehow had hoped the holder would contain at least some bolts but it doesn't. It's also the color like shown on the picture.


(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF5948/web.jpg?ver=12869018580001)

Of course it cannot stay that way, it wouldn't match the other original metal hardware:

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF5949/web.jpg?ver=12869018630001)

The 60 cm. of wire is hopefully long enough to not have to make an extra connection.... but the connector is perfect.

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF5950/web.jpg?ver=12869018700001)

Very neat to do it like this, nothing but the best for the lady !!! :)

Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on April 18, 2011, 05:24:31 pm
Finally, it's spring time again, and temps are nice enough to go back to work ! ;)

Rivets. I hate them. They probably made sense to the manufacturers who made machines for arcades, but as a home collector, they are not our friends.

I needed/wanted to have my SW cockpit speaker grills powder coated so I had drilled out the rivets.

But now, how to install them back ?

I bought some of these (the one in the middle on top):
(http://www.modelfixings.co.uk/images/inserts.gif)

and these:

(http://www.modelfixings.co.uk/images/HT%20Button%20Head.bmp)

I chose metric sizes since I live in Europe and those are easier to handle for me.

Pics coming up...
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on April 18, 2011, 05:25:21 pm
The key to success in using this solution is that _ANY_ metal rests of the former rivets MUST be removed. I drilled them out. IF YOU OWN A SW COCKPIT REMOVE THE MARQUEE BEFORE DOING THIS, ELSE YOU MAY DAMAGE IT WHEN DRILLING THE HOLES OF THE SEAT SPEAKERS !

Start, you can see some of the metal "leftovers":
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF6659/web.jpg?ver=13031605270001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF6662/web.jpg?ver=13031605970001)

Once drilled out/removed the metal, you simply screw in the "inserts" with a hex-tool. Be sure to buy the inserts types without the "edge" so you can screw them in far enough to make the "sink" under the surface a little bit, so that the grill will sit flush.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF6664/web.jpg?ver=13031605870001)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on April 18, 2011, 05:25:49 pm
Be sure to screw in the inserts as STRAIGHT as possible so the bolts will go in straight too

Replace the grill and inserted the bolts:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF6665/web.jpg?ver=13031605590001)

Done:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF6669/web.jpg?ver=13031606060001)

One hole was a bit too big after I removed the metal (first try). So for this hole I took a plug instead. Make sure the "head" is sunk so the grill will wit flush. I was very lucky as the hole was "exactly" tight enough for the bolt.

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF6666/web.jpg?ver=13031606330001)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on June 27, 2011, 03:19:25 pm
Must be one of the longest running resto-threads now :)

But, it's finished ! (Well almost :))

1) Fixed a sound problem, turned out the old connectors didn't work well with the new JBL speakers (tried to bend them "in" a bit to make them grip tighter but the lips broke off....must be age. Decided to go for the robust way: soldered the wires to the speakers directly.
Great sound again !

2) Re-mount the coin-door and box. This was done by Etienne who helped me out. Not so easy as I had forgotten to put the bolts in the holes before powder-coating so it was very hard to turn them back in....thank Etienne :)

3) Fix the problem that the screen sometimes went blank. It seemed to be heat related as it only happened after the machine had been running for a while.
The LED on the deflection board was coming on intermittently at the times the picture went blank. Checked all parts for soldering. I did some firm pulling on the soldered wires and sure enough both the purple one's (supply) broke off, as did one more. Restripped an resoldered them.
After that it didn't seem to go black anymore. However, I had installed a fan by that time. First I put in a Papst that I had around. Was really silent, but it also produced only an average airflow. What did happen after playing some games was that I got horizontal deflection problems. It looked much different from a bad pot this time (which gives "hard" jaggies...) This time, there seemed to be an extra sine wave sometimes appearing on the horizontal deflection. As if something was oscillating.
All parts seemed to be soldered fine and I saw no obvious problems. I replaced the Papst with a Sunon fan that I also had. This sure prodcued a load more noise but it also put out a hefty airflow.

And this seemed to do the trick ! Played a number of games on it and it stayed very steady. And that with surrounding temps of +26 degr. C.

4) installed all the missing bolts and screws. Cleaned her again and until I replace the side-art with Rich's future repro's, I'm done with this machine.
The only other thing is the missing lower back door, but that will arrive sept. 3 :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: yotsuya on June 27, 2011, 03:28:54 pm
 :cheers:
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on June 27, 2011, 04:21:55 pm
Hope to make some pics and video tomorrow.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: DKJR on June 27, 2011, 11:04:10 pm
for the fan you added what kind and where did you mount it? and what was its power source? Hooked it in the PS?
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on June 28, 2011, 06:09:53 pm
The fan is one of those big one's, I think 15 x 15 cm ?
I mounted it with the bracket (see further up the thread) under the HV board horizontally, so it's blowing over the HV board and then over the deflection board.
It's a 230VAC fan because I live in Europe. I tapped the power from the leads that run FROM the power switch to the rest of the cab. This way, the fan is behind the main fuse and the switch.

Whatever people say, only 115 and 230VAC volt fans can produce the required power for a good hefty airflow across these two boards.

I hope I have some time to take and post some pics tomorrow...
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: yotsuya on June 28, 2011, 07:37:43 pm
Hope to make some pics and video tomorrow.


Just wanted to say that I love what you are doing here with the cockpit and your arcade in general. It's definitely an inspiration.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Spyridon on June 29, 2011, 10:18:50 pm
Restorey nomination! 
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on July 29, 2011, 07:40:25 pm
Haha, good one Spyri....didn't I "invent" Restoreys LOOOOONG ago ?

Hey guys....I think I FINALLY found a problem that kept chasing my SW....

The thing was that after playing the game for about 20 minutes or so, the screen sometimes started to show what looked a bit like a sinus wave on the horizontal deflection. When played on, it got a bit worse apparently and the deflection spot killer kicked in (good to know that works !)...
It was only brief moments, picture would come go for a fraction of a second and be back for 4 or 10 seconds...

I first tried another game PCB set to make sure I was correct in my assumption that it was on the deflection board.
And indeed, the problem stayed.

So I started to closely examine the deflection board. Obviously, the issue was heat related because the problem only started after 20 minutes or so.
However, the fan that I installed does an EXCELLENT job on keeping everything cool, the difference is really huge, so I was a bit baffled that it still could be a heat issue, but localy of course, heat can still build up (a bit).

Now, I looked at the horizontal deflection section. SW owners know that this is on the upper section of the deflection board. In a cockpit, this is pretty close to the "lid" that is over it. Thus, this area is probably the hottest spot in the cab. (without the extra fan).
I started "feeling"/wiggeling at various compenents and looked CLOSELY what happened on the solder side. Very quickly I noticed that C11 had moving pins/soldering islands. Removed the old solder and resoldered it, fixed. So I started suspecting this area so I checked all components there an sure enough I find at least 4 other parts that have (slight) movement on the solderings. Fixed them all. Sometimes the islands had lifted because of the heat so I had to scrap a little off the track to solder it to that.

SO,I had good hopes, put it back in the machine for some more test-playing (oh what punishment ! ;)) For a while I though I had fixed it, but after a while again the problem appeared.

So, while it was still running I watched the deflection board. Sure enough I could see the spot-killer LED go on every now and then. I was feeling/wiggling parts all over the horizontal deflection section to see if I had missed something. And YES, suddenly I found, that when I was pushing on Q14 (the small transistor on the big heat-sink at the top) the LED would go on, and when released it went out again. I could really turn it "on and off" by pushing straight on that transistor.

Took out the board, checked the solderings and sure enough there was a problem with one of the legs. The track had curled up a bit under it and it was making contact, normally, but when pushed the contact went open. So, had to scrape open some part of the track and soldered it to that, and also renewed the two other solderings.

Now, I am pretty confident that I fixed it, but it's long bed time here, so testing will be done tomorrow.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: fmarkus on August 22, 2011, 04:11:46 pm
I have the exact same problem but my spot killer doesn't turn on. Might not be cool enough or one of the issues you mentioned. Will check this on mine asap! Thanks for letting us know!
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on August 23, 2011, 01:55:21 pm
One quick tip (more later): check ALL solderings on the deflection board. Use reading glasses or a loupe to see them right ! I'll post a video soon...
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on March 21, 2012, 11:56:14 am
A piece of art is never finished and I think a restoration is not unlike that.....

But here's another small but important and very nice step:

Remember this ?
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3854/web.jpg?ver=12516620660001)

Today the missing serial stickers arrived and of course I put them up right away:

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100514/DSCF0017/web.jpg?ver=13323450150001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100514/DSCF0019/web.jpg?ver=13323450360001)


(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100027/DSCF3860/web.jpg?ver=12516620880001)

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100514/DSCF0018/web.jpg?ver=13323450470001)


A HUGE THANK YOU TO ETIENNE FOR DOING ALL THIS INCREDIBLE HARD WORK JUST TO HELP US !!!!!! YOU ROCK !!
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on March 21, 2012, 12:23:57 pm
Now the last (not really of course) is the lower back door. A member of the arcadlifestyle.net forum named HI was kind enough to repro the door for me while he was making one for his own cockpit. All I have to do is put some vinyl on it and install a lock.
I don't have a big enough piece of Happ pica vinyl anymore but it looks like this problem is going to be solved soon thanks to another member :)
Locks I have plenty now so I am close....close to the real finish :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Le Chuck on January 14, 2013, 05:31:12 pm
Now the last (not really of course) is the lower back door. A member of the arcadlifestyle.net forum named HI was kind enough to repro the door for me while he was making one for his own cockpit. All I have to do is put some vinyl on it and install a lock.
I don't have a big enough piece of Happ pica vinyl anymore but it looks like this problem is going to be solved soon thanks to another member :)
Locks I have plenty now so I am close....close to the real finish :)

Hey man, did you finish this bad boy up finally?  This resto is itching for a UCA nom like nobody's business.  If it got done in '12 post up some pics so I can nominate it and share the love!
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: TopJimmyCooks on January 14, 2013, 05:44:57 pm
No nominations until the pic links are fixed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!!
Post by: Level42 on May 31, 2013, 06:20:58 pm
Sorry guys, all the pics were on the former Apple service but they kindly decided to remove that service. Yes I'd been warned, but I have a lot more important thing to do then move hundreds of pictures AND repair all the links.....:(

The machine is still in "about finished" state. It's running 100% with a SW/ESB kit inside. Although not bad, I received an even better condition (no holes) coin door (for free !) that I still want to swap in there, and the back door ......well Hi from France kindly made me an extra "copy" of the backdoor he did for his cockpit.
So, recently I got some matching vinyl to put on it (Happ's Pica IIRC) kindly donated by Superully. I went through it really thoroughly and it looked awesome......untill I had installed the lock and realized I had put the vinyl on the WRONG SIDE  :o :o ::) ::) :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :censored:

I had no vinyl left to fix the problem......and buying some is expensive for me (needs to ship from the US, and I only need that small piece.... :S)

If anyone has some of that vinyl left, I'm up for it ! :P

I'll see if I can upload all the pics to one central place and then put a link here, I really cannot go through each and every picture link....

Thanks for considering the nomination though :)