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Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: Ummon on November 04, 2008, 09:54:44 pm
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Game competition #5: Mame - Joust
- parent set (joust - white/green lable) , default settings, no cheats
- use any mame version or variant you wish
- last day is November 18th (around midnight Pacific time)
- high score wins (a tie means there's more than one winner)
- no savestates, savestate practices, etc during the round.
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Curious, I was just playing this last night after a spell away from it.
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save states allowed between rounds? I dont have significant amounts of time to play and I have a knack for having a great game going then have to leave :/
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I guess I'll draw first blood.
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I guess I'll draw first blood.
Well, I guess I'm out! I love this game, but I have always sucked at it.
Dave
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I guess I'll draw first blood.
Yikes. I can usually score 100,000 - 200,000. Can't touch that score however.
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I guess I'll draw first blood.
and last blood :notworthy:
my all time best is less then 250K
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No kidding!
How the heck did you get such a High Score???
I wasn't aware of any patterns or ways to run up the score in Joust...
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Download a replay from the MARP site and watch how the good players do it. There are some tricks to get points, but for the most part it is just skill like the other classic Williams games (Robotron, Defender, etc.). Robotron I can do, but Joust and Defender have always owned me.
Dave
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(+-+) - how many times did you die? As if the answer's none, that beats the MARP score by about 100k IIRC
MARP employ a no additional men rule as the game is too marathonable. Not by me, but apparently it is ;D I suck at it too - lucky if I break 150k :-\
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Should also add to the rules that frameskip must be to auto.
If you force MAME to draw every frame on a slow computer, it will play in slow motion, making it much easier.
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No kidding!
How the heck did you get such a High Score???
I wasn't aware of any patterns or ways to run up the score in Joust...
Nope. No patterns or tricks (ie the teradactyl trick which is a sinfully boring and monotonous trick anyways). Just a lot of flapping around and jousting higher than the enemies. ;D
(+-+) - how many times did you die? As if the answer's none, that beats the MARP score by about 100k IIRC
MARP employ a no additional men rule as the game is too marathonable. Not by me, but apparently it is ;D I suck at it too - lucky if I break 150k :-\
I died a whole bunch of times. I'm a little rusty though. I am familiar with the 900,000 some odd points MARP high score you are referring to. I've never tried to beat it though. I'm quite sure I've come close. I used to roll the game (10, 000, 000) points quite regularly.
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I do remember in the initial stage of starting the comp series discouraging MARP-class players. I also had a feeling smiley would pick another game he was absurdly good at. But there are terms limits. And truly the comp is more about playing and sharing scores and such.
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LOL. Absurdly. I'll take that as a compliment. Your right. If I do win, I'll choose something I suck at for the next game. That way I'll be forced to excel at some new games. Sorry everybody.
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I do remember in the initial stage of starting the comp series discouraging MARP-class players. I also had a feeling smiley would pick another game he was absurdly good at. But there are terms limits. And truly the comp is more about playing and sharing scores and such.
I know you mentioned that this wasn't like MARP when I questioned settings in one competition, but st the end of the day we would all pick games we were competent at if given the choice.
I can't really remember how the MARP comps worked but I think the organiser picked each game (Or maybe there was a vote) - either way the participants get to play lesser known titles sometimes and that adds to the fun.
I would disagree to an extent with your last sentence in that while there is no prize for winning, most people I would guess post scores with a view to doing just that. Sometimes, like now, someone is certain to be leaps and bounds ahead of what other members here can do, as seems to be the case here.
LOL. Absurdly. I'll take that as a compliment. Your right. If I do win, I'll choose something I suck at for the next game. That way I'll be forced to excel at some new games. Sorry everybody.
But finally, if a player is as good at a game as (+_+) is ^^^, then good luck to them imho. :)
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I might have a score to post. Let me look when I get home.
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LOL. Absurdly. I'll take that as a compliment. Your right. If I do win, I'll choose something I suck at for the next game. That way I'll be forced to excel at some new games. Sorry everybody.
Note I said there are terms limits. This means that after the second consecutive win the following comp game pick defaults to the second highest scorer of the current round. It hasn't been publicized since the first or second round but it's still in effect.
I know you mentioned that this wasn't like MARP when I questioned settings in one competition, but st the end of the day we would all pick games we were competent at if given the choice.
Not necessarily. Though it was a voting circumstance, five choices of gradually diminishing vote points, I've put games in the first slot that I wasn't very familiar with.
I would disagree to an extent with your last sentence in that while there is no prize for winning, most people I would guess post scores with a view to doing just that. Sometimes, like now, someone is certain to be leaps and bounds ahead of what other members here can do, as seems to be the case here.
Yes, that's the habit, but as there are no player levels or divisions, it's not really relevant. However, if people want to change the set-up, feel free to create a special thread on this and we'll see what comes out.
I might have a score to post. Let me look when I get home.
Yes, do.
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This is as good as it gets from me with Joust. Not QUITE close enough... heh.
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Nice. I think my top is close to that, but average maybe 40 or 50k.
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Ok, so if my avatar isn't enough of a giveaway, Joust has been my all-time favorite game since 1982. I really dig the pure elegance of this game, served well by the gravity-induced balletic fights with the enemy. It is NOT, however, a game I'm particularly good at (see attached - my highest ever). I'm better at games like Time Pilot and Elevator Action.
I do know some strategies that have helped me get decent scores, like flapping vertically fixed in the right "column" whenever possible, and dragging the enemy down to the bottom when you're pinned in that area. Any other strategies from anyone else would definitely be helpful.
Shoegazer
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One of my favorite tricks is to kill the blue guys up against the bottom right shelf. All you need to do is time the blue guy when it is flying on the bottom from right to left. As soon as it is about to leave the left side, you double flap (flutter index finger and middle finger across the button to fly upward much quicker) and continue to flap against the ledge. You'll notice that you slide up the ledge as you continue to flap because of the angle. The blue guy will violently slide up the ledge as soon as he exists the right side. Because you are higher, they almost always die first.
Note: pretend the grey guy is a blue guy in the screenshot for the sake of argument. The yellow line shows the sliding direction. The red line shows that you are always slightly higher than the blue guy. Don't do it with red or grey guys. It doesn't work the same at all.
Does anybody know the trick on how to slip through the crevasse between the 2 shelves in the screenshot?
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That's a great tip, thanks.
Yes, in order to squeeze between the two right-hand plaforms you just approach them from the left side of the screen as if your emu's body would hit the platform rather than it's legs. You skid across, and when you get to the other side you squeeze through the two right-hand platforms, killing anything underneath. Use that one all the time, but a useful tip nonetheless.
Shoegazer
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Otherwise known as... the belly flap. Nah, I just made that up.
Another couple of very handy tips.
1) This is to be done only on the higher levels when there are only Shadow Lords (blue guys). Levels where the middle, bottom most ledge is gone, you can hover about an inch below the ledges on the right and left and kill blue guys with ease. They spawn from the bottom spawn point and sort of vear slightly to the left or right as they zoom out. Don't go too high or you risk them vearing too far and missing them. Worse yet, if you go too high (above the left and right ledge) all of the higher Lords will spawn and reek havoc on you. If done correctly, you end up with 2 Lords on each upper shelf and you just let them fall to their doom where you position yourself and kill them both with a mere flap or 2.
2) You can also strategically fly as close to the ceiling as possible and kill off Lords since the make big bounces off the ceiling initially. You just need to time it correctly and make small left/right adjustments and voila a dozen eggs. It isn't easy at first but it is very effective and does look cool to the amateur eye. It can get you out a bind if a teradactyl shows up and you need to flee the bottom. This is also done only on the higher levels and doesn't apply to the Red and Grey guys. These bastiges hug the ceiling almost pixel perfectly.
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Some of you guys are crazy good. I've only played Joust a handful of times. I think my absolute best game is around 55k. My average is around 25-30k.
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Very nice! When I was in high school I remember these two guys (both named Dave) who would play at our student center, and everyone always gathered around them whenever they did. They were damn good, both of them. I remember them doing that trick you just mentioned, flapping towards the top, though there was always something a little different about it I could never quite duplicate. Now I know.
Thanks bro...
Shoegazer
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Well, I still can't hang with the masters but I did have a 115K game tonight and I did something that I never thought was possible. I had a tough time on one of the Pterodactyl boards and a second one came out to tell me I was taking too long. I actually killed both of them in mid air with the lance to the open mouth! I have done one before out of desperation, but never two. I wish I had been recording this one.
Dave
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Love it when stuff like that happens. It's what makes the game so great.
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Well, I still can't hang with the masters but I did have a 115K game tonight and I did something that I never thought was possible. I had a tough time on one of the Pterodactyl boards and a second one came out to tell me I was taking too long. I actually killed both of them in mid air with the lance to the open mouth! I have done one before out of desperation, but never two. I wish I had been recording this one.
Dave
The easier way to accomplish this is to kill the teradactyl while it is gliding along at the same height for a couple of seconds. You'll see that it'll do that and switch its height every now and then. It sometimes goes straight for a time and then jerks up or downward. That is the worst time you can do it.
An easy way to score a 1000 is to leave an egg to the right of the crevasse I was talking about earlier. Stand on the right side of the egg and wait for a teradactyl to come along. As soon as it brushes up against the ledge just below the split in the 2 shelves, you make a run for the egg, bounce off the higher side of the shelf (which causes you to turn around running through the other side of the screen. In the meantime, since you have picked up the egg, the teradactyl flees the level. If your timing is correct, you'll end up killing the teradactyl every time somewhere on the legde on the other side. You need to do this when all enemies have been killed.
Ok. ::) I'll draw a picture.
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That's a great tip. I saw that trick watching one of the MARP replays. Watching those guys play the game is a lesson in humility.
Dave
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That's a great tip. I saw that trick watching one of the MARP replays. Watching those guys play the game is a lesson in humility.
Dave
I wouldn't say that. Just a lesson in personal capability. I played the real arcade game some time ago, and height adjustment was easier. A simple flap rhythm, that I can't replicate in mame, allowed hovering.
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Which version of MAME are you using? It's about as close to perfect as it gets these days...
Shoegazer
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That's a great tip. I saw that trick watching one of the MARP replays. Watching those guys play the game is a lesson in humility.
Dave
I wouldn't say that. Just a lesson in personal capability. I played the real arcade game some time ago, and height adjustment was easier. A simple flap rhythm, that I can't replicate in mame, allowed hovering.
That's funny you should mention that about flapping. I know the game like the back of my hand and I noticed something fishy. I don't know if my timing is off or what but I can't seem to be able to take a running start from one ledge and with one flap make it to the other ledge. I'm talking about the large gap between the second level of ledges from left to right. I remember having to jump at the very tip of the ledge and hold the flap button when pressed to ensure it was a complete flap and not just a flutter.
I'm going to try it again tonight. In the back of my mind, I joking thought "Ahh, it's because I'm using a widescreen display so the distance is further".
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That's funny you should mention that about flapping. I know the game like the back of my hand and I noticed something fishy. I don't know if my timing is off or what but I can't seem to be able to take a running start from one ledge and with one flap make it to the other ledge. I'm talking about the large gap between the second level of ledges from left to right. I remember having to jump at the very tip of the ledge and hold the flap button when pressed to ensure it was a complete flap and not just a flutter.
I'm going to try it again tonight. In the back of my mind, I joking thought "Ahh, it's because I'm using a widescreen display so the distance is further".
I can believe it. I know MAME has these games emulated very well, but I have noticed little differences in some games as well. I have an actual Robotron machine in my basement next to my MAME cabinet. My joystick spacing on the MAME machine is identical to the Robotron, although the sticks themselves are U360s as opposed to Wicos. A bad game for me on the Robotron is anything less than one million points. At the same settings I find it difficult to break one million regularly on my MAME machine. I still claim the game doesn't slow down the same in MAME as on the real hardware, and perhaps something like this happens with Joust as well. I'm not complaining about MAME, but I swear some things are just different.
Dave
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LOL. Absurdly. I'll take that as a compliment. Your right. If I do win, I'll choose something I suck at for the next game. That way I'll be forced to excel at some new games. Sorry everybody.
May I make a suggestion? Pang! (Buster Bros. is the US title), Galaga/Gaplus, Arkanoid, and Dig Dug would all be fun choices IMO.
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No not Galaga, Im "Absurdly" good at that one too. Any of the others sound good but it isn't my choice the next time around anyways. I look forward to whatever is picked next anyways.
BTW. I pressed a little harder on the flap button last night and was able to make it all the way across from one ledge to the other. It seemed I had to jump a bit earlier than I remember. Perhaps the widescreen does play a small role in my judgement due to the stretch.
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No not Galaga, Im "Absurdly" good at that one too. Any of the others sound good but it isn't my choice the next time around anyways. I look forward to whatever is picked next anyways.
I vote Hyper Sports (cough cough) or Arkanoid :P
Who's second at the moment? :blah:
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I'm playing Tournament Arkanoid somewhere's else, so wouldn't prefer that one, if possible.
Hovering: I just tried again on both .104 and .128 . The latter might be easier, but still not as easy as I remember in the real game.
Robotron slows down for me when I get to the second brain stage, and then in other later similarly object-saturated levels. I think Joust does too when there's so many birds in flight, but that's at maybe level nine, up.
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No not Galaga, Im "Absurdly" good at that one too.
Galaga may not be a bad choice, since so many people like it. I've played a few decent games in my time.
Some suggestions:
Rush'n Attack
Mario Bros.
Marble Madness
Time Pilot
Gyruss
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I'd also like to add Ms. Pacman (with speed hack) to Lew's great list. I'd really like to put my new 4-way to the test. :)
~ D
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You already mentioned that.
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You already mentioned that.
Yep! (hint, hint)
:woot
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Pssst... Ummon, maybe we should let D29's have his way with the speed hacked version of MsPacman and then open up a can of whooptail on his score. ;)
I remember playing it a few times and the bloody thing was so fast I would crash into them accidentally.
Someone mentioned Time Pilot. Im game for that one too.
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LOL on the Ms. Pac comment...
Time Pilot is cool too. I learned to play that on on Colecovision when I was a kid and the arcade is not that much different.
~ D
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I am of the inclination to think the speed hack was created for later days kiddies who couldn't handle the slow speed of the game yet who sucked so bad they couldn't get past the second or third board after very long so quit playing the game. Is this incorrect?
Anyways, I guess it's up to shoegazer.
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I am of the inclination to think the speed hack was created for later days kiddies who couldn't handle the slow speed of the game yet who sucked so bad they couldn't get past the second or third board after very long so quit playing the game. Is this incorrect?
Yes, this is incorrect. I didn't love Ms. Pacman till I played it with the speed hack.
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Up to me?
Well from the recently-discussed I'd pick Time Pilot, followed by Gyruss. It would be great to try elevator action at some point soon too, unless it has already been done recently and I missed it.
And yes Ummon, I believe you are correct. I think it has to do with the fact that most people these days expect more instant action/gratification out of games, so the pace has been sped up in keeping. It's kind of like the pace of movies today compared to the 80s.
Shoegazer
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I dunno. I always loved mspac, more so than pac, because it looked cooler and it didn't require a pattern to get at least past the first board.
As for movies, I watched Star Wars the other night, and certainly the ships in the fighting scenes seem like they're moving slowly. But I then watched Empire and I thought all the ship scenes were still killer. (Of course the whole of Star Wars is utterly ridiculous, let alone the piloting of the ships and all, but that's another discussion.)
Anyways, Shoegazer, whatever you want. In the meantime, you can create the thread for it, using the first post of this one as a template, or I can once you pick your game.
And, just because I was testing something and accidentally loaded Joust and thought what the hell I'd play it, the highest score I've gotten in quite a while. Level 13 or so I think.
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I am of the inclination to think the speed hack was created for later days kiddies who couldn't handle the slow speed of the game yet who sucked so bad they couldn't get past the second or third board after very long so quit playing the game. Is this incorrect?
Yes, this is incorrect. I didn't love Ms. Pacman till I played it with the speed hack.
I kind of agree with Ummon's statement minus the "yet who sucked so bad they couldn't get past the second or third board after very long so quit playing the game." I think the game was "revived" years after it came out for the new generation of people who were used to faster paced games. It was brilliant and breathed new life into the game. I always remember seeing the hacked Ms. Pacman at rest stops on the New Jersey Turnpike. Maybe it was the vendor's way of justifying the 50 cent price to play? :o LOL.
As for the Ms. Pac suggestion for the game comp... it's actually better that we don't choose this game for the next one, 'cause my monitor on my arcade is out for repair. :'( So I won't be able to participate. :banghead:
~ DeLuSioNaL
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Hey, as far as I know, the NJ turnpike STILL has those speedhacked Ms. Pac machines. Though I wish they were originals, it's still comforting knowing they're there, beckoning you from the highway to beat the snot out of em. ;-)
Shoegazer
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I took the NJ Turnpike last week on my way to Maryland. Didn't stop at any rest stops in NJ, but in MD I stopped at "Maryland House" and they had a 20th Anniversary Ms. Pacman/Galaga.
What's weird is I totally did not even play. I simply looked at the condition of the machine (front and sides) and stroked it a couple of times. That's how I knew I was "officially" hooked on building arcades. ;-) LOL
~ DeLuSioNaL
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I took the NJ Turnpike last week on my way to Maryland. Didn't stop at any rest stops in NJ, but in MD I stopped at "Maryland House" and they had a 20th Anniversary Ms. Pacman/Galaga.
What's weird is I totally did not even play. I simply looked at the condition of the machine (front and sides) and stroked it a couple of times. That's how I knew I was "officially" hooked on building arcades. ;-) LOL
~ DeLuSioNaL
Yeah, I do this too when I see them. I can play the same-looking display at home; 25 and 27 inch are basically the same-looking. Now if it's an original mspac, I would definitely play. Original Galaga, not necessarily.
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Sorry for dragging this one up from the dead. Wish I would have seen this. I can score 350,000 on my dedicated Joust. I mainly wanted to ad that Joust in MAME is definitely different than on a dedicated machine. I am not sure why exactly, but I believe it has more to do with the original cabinet having leaf switches than MAME itself.
I thought people were crazy when they would praise leafs so much until I actually got a dedicated machine with leafs.