Post by: javeryh on February 18, 2020, 03:39:52 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/ElWHYhv.png)
I am calling this project complete. There are a few more tweaks I want to do eventually but I need to move on:
1. Install coin box to catch coins. The coin door works but the return button is all I've been using.
2. Install an amp and get sound out of 2 speakers. Right now, only 1 speaker works but honestly it makes no difference. Sounds great still.
Overall, I'm very pleased with how this turned out and since I work in the basement because of Covid, this machine gets a ton of use. :cheers:
____________________________
After finishing Jack Attack (more or less), I've got the bug to build something else. There's not a lot of room in my house so I've decided to go small and build a cabaret. After scouring the forums for a design to start with, I decided to base this one off of markc74's CUBE (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,151654.0/all.html) build but use a CP layout similar to Minwah's Vertical Mini (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,132372.0/all.html). I was also strongly considering building a "Tully", which I also really like. I'm not going to reinvent the wheel with this project but there are going to be a few small things I do differently.
My plan right now is to include:
- CRT for the main display in a horizontal orientation
- Second LCD monitor for a dynamic marquee
- Single player controls
- 4/8 way auto switching joystick (ServoStik)
- Three "action" buttons (so no fighting games)
- Atari "volcano style" start buttons for Player 1 and Player 2
- Working coin door
- Wood grain side panels
- Instruction card(s)
The goal of this thing is to be as streamlined and simple for people to use as possible. NO MENUS.
Cabinet construction should be fairly straightforward (famous last words) but the software configuration will be where the challenge is for me. The brains of this thing will be an old PC running MAME and one of the newer front ends like Attract Mode, HyperSpin or BigBox so that I can take advantage of the dynamic marquee options. This will be my first time using a "modern" front end (I'm usually a MaLa guy) so I'll need to read up. Ideally, the cabinet will have a one button power on/off and boot straight to ONE game list (completely hiding Windows 10) and somehow send a picture to the second monitor to display the proper game marquee as you scroll through the game list.
I wasn't going to post a thread because this has been done before and I'm not really adding anything but then I figured what the hell. If anything I'll be able to work through issues I run into and bounce ideas off of people to make this thing as good as I can make it.
Using the plans posted HERE (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=151654.msg1666496#msg1666496), I transferred the profile onto a piece of 1/4" MDF and cut it out with my jigsaw and router.
(https://i.imgur.com/TXDeD4r.jpg?1)
I did change the profile slightly to make the front top panel where the dynamic marquee sits a little shorter so that the front bottom panel where the coin door will go would be a little bit taller. It is a subtle change but I think it helps with making the eventual coin door easier to reach. To achieve this, I mirrored the angle on the top and bottom of the "bump out" which naturally resulted in the top area being slightly smaller and the bottom area being slightly larger. I also like the symmetry.
:cheers:
Post by: Arroyo on February 18, 2020, 04:36:57 pm
And no, you ain’t done with Jack Attack until there’s picture proof ;-)
Post by: Mike A on February 18, 2020, 04:59:20 pm
Post by: wp34 on February 18, 2020, 05:30:18 pm
Post by: javeryh on February 18, 2020, 06:22:36 pm
Yeah buddy! Subscribed. I like that profile, going to be interesting to see this one come together.
And no, you ain’t done with Jack Attack until there’s picture proof ;-)
yeah... pictures... I'll um, post some soon? ;D
I like your ideas. Don't beat yourself up trying to hide Windows. Just flip the switch on and go grab a beer. By the time you get back you will be looking at the game list.
Totally agree. I am terrible at software/computers so I'm going to try and learn something but it's not the end of the world if I can't figure it out. My DK shows the windows splash screen for a second before booting to DK and it doesn't really bother me.
I love these cabaret builds. Looking forward to seeing your spin on it.
Me too! I was away from the forums (finishing my basement) during the craze about 2-3 years ago as far as I can tell when people were making these. I can picture the finished cabinet in my head and I'm kind of working backwards from there without a plan.
Post by: opt2not on February 18, 2020, 06:25:26 pm
Post by: javeryh on February 18, 2020, 06:43:21 pm
Welcome back, javeryh! Always dig your projects. :applaud:
Thanks! The bartop I built last year came out really nice, IMO, but it's not really my thing and I've been itching to build another proper cabinet for a while now.
I took lots of pics so might as well post them even though this stuff is routine by now. Who knows maybe it will help someone in the future... Once I finished the template, making the side panels was easy. First, I traced the template on a 2' x 4' piece of 3/4" MDF inside of the factory edges by about 1/8".
(https://i.imgur.com/GxfDOhs.jpg)
Then, I used my jigsaw to cut out the shape staying about 1/8" from the line. This took a while because 3/4" MDF is tough to chew through.
Next, I stuck the rough cut template down using double sided tape:
(https://i.imgur.com/pxRkDDt.jpg)
Finally, using my router and a pattern bit I was able to make exact copies of the template. The ball bearing on the pattern bit rides along the edge of the template and the blade cuts exactly to the edge.
(https://i.imgur.com/asXbwan.jpg)
I repeated this for the other side and here is where I ended up:
(https://i.imgur.com/bXmZ6AG.jpg)
Not a bad start. Next up is laying out where all of the inside cross pieces will go. I am using 1/2" MDF for (most) everything else to try and keep the weight down.
I usually just cut one side and then make a copy but I'm glad I took the time to make a template in case I want to build another one of these. My dad has been saying for years that he wouldn't mind a cabinet of some sort for my parents' beach house - you know, for the grandkids! :cheers:
Post by: morton on February 18, 2020, 07:00:59 pm
Post by: leapinlew on February 18, 2020, 07:35:52 pm
I finished my Gorf cabinet recently and I never had a cabaret cabinet. I never wanted one that size, but I'm really digging it. I'm going to convert my bartop Defender into a cabaret too.
Good luck dude. I don't think a Pandoras box is for you, but I think spending a few minutes confirming the latest version doesn't scratch the itch for you is worth it. I love having a non-PC run my machines. Powering on/off without any worry of corrupting the OS is nicer than I thought.
Post by: Mike A on February 18, 2020, 07:44:15 pm
Post by: javeryh on February 18, 2020, 08:29:07 pm
Excuse my ignorance, but is the pregnant guppie belly a result of the marquee, or was it found on an actual cabinet OG? I really like the look of it, as it adds interest to what normally seems somewhat tame.
The profile is basically ripped straight from markc74's design. I think it is a bit more interesting than just the straight front panel like you'd find on a standard Atari cabaret. Plus, breaking the front panel into two separate pieces is appealing to me for some reason.
Cool. I always enjoy watching your cabinets. I expect lots of agonizing and sweating over the smallest details! :)
I finished my Gorf cabinet recently and I never had a cabaret cabinet. I never wanted one that size, but I'm really digging it. I'm going to convert my bartop Defender into a cabaret too.
Good luck dude. I don't think a Pandoras box is for you, but I think spending a few minutes confirming the latest version doesn't scratch the itch for you is worth it. I love having a non-PC run my machines. Powering on/off without any worry of corrupting the OS is nicer than I thought.
If you want agonizing and sweating over small details you've come to the right place! I'm already pulling my hair out over a few relatively minor things as I'm sure Arroyo can attest to...
I've never really thought about Pandora's Box but I'll take a look. For this build I think I only want about 30-50 games available. Mostly early-mid 80s stuff.
Post by: morton on February 19, 2020, 05:43:43 am
I don't get why anyone worries about OS corruption ever. That is also a common worry people have with the Pi shutdown. Just clone the drive. If it ever does happen just swap the drives. Keep a cloud backup too.
Yeah... Knock on wood, but I've never had an OS corruption issue on my Pi3.
Post by: Mike A on February 19, 2020, 05:45:00 am
Post by: leapinlew on February 19, 2020, 06:32:21 am
Post by: firedance on February 19, 2020, 07:12:13 am
Cabinet construction should be fairly straightforward (famous last words) but the software configuration will be where the challenge is for me. The brains of this thing will be an old PC running MAME and one of the newer front ends like Attract Mode, HyperSpin or BigBox so that I can take advantage of the dynamic marquee options. This will be my first time using a "modern" front end (I'm usually a MaLa guy) so I'll need to read up. Ideally, the cabinet will have a one button power on/off and boot straight to ONE game list (completely hiding Windows 10) and somehow send a picture to the second monitor to display the proper game marquee as you scroll through the game list.
It is quite easy to hide most of windows 10 stuff, also very easy to boot into any frontend if you have the "pro" version of windows 7 or 10, think there's even a guide in these very forums :D
Post by: javeryh on February 19, 2020, 09:05:55 am
Cabinet construction should be fairly straightforward (famous last words) but the software configuration will be where the challenge is for me. The brains of this thing will be an old PC running MAME and one of the newer front ends like Attract Mode, HyperSpin or BigBox so that I can take advantage of the dynamic marquee options. This will be my first time using a "modern" front end (I'm usually a MaLa guy) so I'll need to read up. Ideally, the cabinet will have a one button power on/off and boot straight to ONE game list (completely hiding Windows 10) and somehow send a picture to the second monitor to display the proper game marquee as you scroll through the game list.
It is quite easy to hide most of windows 10 stuff, also very easy to boot into any frontend if you have the "pro" version of windows 7 or 10, think there's even a guide in these very forums :D
That's good to know. Last time I tried to "shell" Windows was XP! I figured people had worked this out by now.
Post by: lomoverde on February 19, 2020, 10:20:54 am
Its got a lot of cool features you can access thru the front end to update groovymame,and add roms from usb.
Post by: javeryh on February 19, 2020, 11:28:55 am
Theres a build i use from another site.It installs a read only copy of windows thin pc,which can just be flipped off with the power switch.During installtion it runs scripts to hide all traces of windows,installs crt emudriver,switches to 15khz,then boots you into attract mode and shells it.
Its got a lot of cool features you can access thru the front end to update groovymame,and add roms from usb.
Got a link?
Minor update as I'm going through my pics - not much to see here. I laid out where all of the interior panels are going to meet the side panels. This helps get an accurate measurement of all of the panels as well as makes it easier to assemble everything using the lines. Yes, my dining room doubles as my workshop in the winter.
All of the interior panels will be 1/2" thick except for the top panel which will have to be 3/4" to match the side panels - one of the edges in the front will be exposed and gets t-molding.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZE9LSdU.jpg)
I decided to offset the interior panels from the edge by 3/8" for no good reason other than 1/4" seemed like not quite enough and 1/2" seemed like way too much... science! I just set the square tool thingy to 3/8" and then ran it along the edge with a pencil to draw the lines. All of the interior panels will be 18" wide making the entire cabinet 19.5" across when you include the side panels.
Next up is cutting out all of these panels - there are 8 of them. It shouldn't be too bad but there are a couple of tricky ones - mainly the panel that will have the marquee.
Post by: Mike A on February 19, 2020, 11:33:01 am
Quote
The goal of this thing is to be as streamlined and simple for people to use as possible. NO MENUS.
I think I can finally forgive you for not using my artwork on your bar top.
Post by: lomoverde on February 19, 2020, 01:23:19 pm
Theres a build i use from another site.It installs a read only copy of windows thin pc,which can just be flipped off with the power switch.During installtion it runs scripts to hide all traces of windows,installs crt emudriver,switches to 15khz,then boots you into attract mode and shells it.
Its got a lot of cool features you can access thru the front end to update groovymame,and add roms from usb.
Got a link?
http://www.ukvac.com/forum/read-only-windows-7_topic366332.html?SID=2011836fcee5z848e79e95866a9567590740741
I think you may have to register to enter the MAME section.
Post by: wp34 on February 19, 2020, 01:51:11 pm
The goal of this thing is to be as streamlined and simple for people to use as possible. NO MENUS.
This is a great goal. Menus and front-ends are the worst. I'm curious to see what you come up with.
Post by: javeryh on February 19, 2020, 07:17:25 pm
I think I can finally forgive you for not using my artwork on your bar top.
There is still plenty of time to talk me out of the wood grain side panels and using your art instead. It would be such a shame for all of your hard work to go to waste...
http://www.ukvac.com/forum/read-only-windows-7_topic366332.html?SID=2011836fcee5z848e79e95866a9567590740741
I think you may have to register to enter the MAME section.
Thanks! I'll register and take a look. Didn't even know that website existed...
This is a great goal. Menus and front-ends are the worst. I'm curious to see what you come up with.
yeah... I have found that over the years no matter how easy I think I am making a multi-cab to operate, my friends and family just can't figure it out without asking a million questions. I have no idea what people do with the setups with 50 emulators and 10,000+ games. So for this one, my challenge is how do I take the guesswork out of it starting with a very very basic front end. I just want a list of games with maybe a screenshot in the background as you scroll through. I love the old GameLauncher look. If I can recreate that in one of the newer front ends that has the dynamic marquee option, I think it would be a good starting point.
Like this:
(https://www.dribin.org/dave/game_launcher/screen_shots/mame.gif)
I also want to include some sort of instruction card somewhere ("Insert Coin. Press 1P Start to Begin" - or something to that effect). Whether this is on an actual instruction card on the CP or bezel or a splash screen that appears when the game is loading, I don't know yet. Still thinking about it.
Post by: leapinlew on February 19, 2020, 09:19:11 pm
Post by: javeryh on February 20, 2020, 09:29:07 am
Now I'm confused. It sure sounds like Mala with Gamecreatures Blue front end would work for you. Seems you've probably used that one before though. I've always liked that it says press 1 player to start.
I also like that skin - I've used it before. It's also very simple and would probably work for what I'm trying to do. I haven't looked at MaLa's features in years though - don't recall being able to use a second monitor as a dynamic marquee, which is why I'm looking at the other front ends for this build.
Post by: javeryh on February 20, 2020, 10:04:03 am
I bought three (3) 2' x 4' x 1/2" panels and one (1) 2' x 4' x 3/4" panel (for the control panel and the top panel). The factory cuts, while straight, were not exactly 90 degrees so I had to basically cut all 4 sides out using a jigsaw and then the straight edge and router to clean up the rough cuts. After the first panel was finished I used it as a template for my router and traced/cut out the other pieces.
Here's where I ended up after an afternoon's work:
(https://i.imgur.com/OGs89v4.jpg)
Three 1/2" panels and one smaller 3/4" panel all 18" wide. Next I cut these pieces to their proper lengths for the coin door panel, front marquee panel, top panel, control panel, etc. I made a "cut list" to help me sort things out. The original plans were done in metric (cm) but I'm a heathen still using the English system so I had to do a lot of converting on the fly to make it all work.
(https://i.imgur.com/8RpDB6G.jpg)
There are 2 back panels I cut 1" longer than needed because I will have to play with the fit during final assembly. I am planning to allow for the monitor to slide in and out and I'm not 100% sure where the monitor supports will go. I cut out 8 panels to start. I'll need a couple more before it is all said and done (especially the control panel) but this will be enough to get it assembled and standing upright.
Since I don't have access to my table saw, all cuts were made with a jigsaw and router. It was kind of a pain and took me the better part of an afternoon. I laid out the pieces using my t-square and leaving 3/8" between panels so that I could easily cut in between with my jigsaw:
(https://i.imgur.com/spNkuIr.jpg?1)
Every edge needed to be cleaned up though. As you can see there's not much to it. After making all of the cuts I ended up with a pile of MDF panels:
(https://i.imgur.com/Mo4fDWf.jpg)
Next I will cut out all of the holes in these panels for the marquee, coin door, power button, speakers, etc.
Post by: Mike A on February 20, 2020, 10:24:05 am
Post by: javeryh on February 21, 2020, 12:03:41 pm
Cool. Nice progress.
Thanks. Slow and steady. Speaking of non-CNC woodworking...
I'm trying to sort out the electronics that will go inside of this cabinet and first up is the power button. The plan is to place this dead center on the lip that will be below the marquee and above the coin door. Pressing it once will boot the computer (into Windows 10 shelled to whatever front end I use) and turn on the monitors and pressing it again will shut everything down.
I have a flush mount button left over from another project that I think I'm going to use. I'm trying to use up as much stuff lying around my shop as I can throughout this project. This button will be something that can't really be pressed accidentally, which I think is the way to go. One of these things:
(https://www.carid.com/ic/kleinn/horn/320_1.jpg)
Once installed, it will basically be flush to the panel but you will still be able to feel for it without looking.
Now that I had that sorted out, it was time to drill the hole! Fun. The panel is thicker than the button itself so drilling one hole wouldn't work - there would be no way to secure the button in place. To do this properly, I marked where I wanted the button to go and then used a 1-1/4" forstner bit with my drill to drill out the material going down about 1/2 way. The painter's tape is to reduce chipping the edge of the hole.
(https://i.imgur.com/suD8KmO.jpg?1)
Then, I drilled a 3/4" hole all the way through the remaining material.
(https://i.imgur.com/TAYgtcA.jpg?1)
This gave me the result I was looking for:
(https://i.imgur.com/6E8zhNZ.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/bGcZCbl.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/VVukTq3.jpg)
This panel will eventually be painted black and will not be visible to the user. One thing I didn't take into consideration was that this panel gets glued to the marquee panel which makes the button off center by 1/4". I don't care enough to recut it plus it will actually be further back against the coin door panel making it harder to press unintentionally.
Post by: Arroyo on February 21, 2020, 03:51:51 pm
Post by: javeryh on February 21, 2020, 06:43:40 pm
Good stuff Javery. The guy I picked up two cabs from here locally is slowly selling all of his uprights for cabarets. His point was you get the same game play experience but in a much more compact design. He also pointed out that cabarets are more rare and that made it more fun as a collector. I’m starting to see his point.....looking forward to seeing this one come together. Keep it up.
Thanks Arroyo - I really like the size and proportions. I think they make great 1P cabs and it is going to be pretty tiny but still have 17” screen and a full set of controls. If this works out I may have to build a vertical version!
Tomorrow is a big day. Wife is working all day and only obligation is basketball at 5pm. Should be able to get a bunch of stuff in. Hope to at least have everything painted and laminated by the end of the day. Then if there’s time on Sunday I can assemble it.
If people want to chime in on the best way to assemble laminated panels I’m all ears. I’m most likely going to use 3/4” x 1-1/2” battons with screws to hold everything together. I will also probably use some CA glue and an activator to bond the battons to the laminate. It’s not like this thing will take a beating but I do want it to be solid.
Post by: leapinlew on February 21, 2020, 11:20:02 pm
Good stuff Javery. The guy I picked up two cabs from here locally is slowly selling all of his uprights for cabarets. His point was you get the same game play experience but in a much more compact design. He also pointed out that cabarets are more rare and that made it more fun as a collector. I’m starting to see his point.....looking forward to seeing this one come together. Keep it up.
Thanks Arroyo - I really like the size and proportions. I think they make great 1P cabs and it is going to be pretty tiny but still have 17” screen and a full set of controls. If this works out I may have to build a vertical version!
Tomorrow is a big day. Wife is working all day and only obligation is basketball at 5pm. Should be able to get a bunch of stuff in. Hope to at least have everything painted and laminated by the end of the day. Then if there’s time on Sunday I can assemble it.
If people want to chime in on the best way to assemble laminated panels I’m all ears. I’m most likely going to use 3/4” x 1-1/2” battons with screws to hold everything together. I will also probably use some CA glue and an activator to bond the battons to the laminate. It’s not like this thing will take a beating but I do want it to be solid.
For my laminated cabinets, I basically assembled the whole thing when it was bare wood. I pulled the whole thing apart, laminated the interior pieces, and then re-assembled. I then laminated the exterior sides by laying them down on their side.
Post by: javeryh on February 22, 2020, 01:53:56 pm
:censored:
Post by: javeryh on February 22, 2020, 06:23:15 pm
For my laminated cabinets, I basically assembled the whole thing when it was bare wood. I pulled the whole thing apart, laminated the interior pieces, and then re-assembled. I then laminated the exterior sides by laying them down on their side.
Did you use screws only? Did you have to drill holes through the laminate on the interior panels? My side panels are laminated now and my plan is to use some painter's tape so I can draw layout lines on the laminate and then drill holes and screw everything together. I'm kind of making it up as I go.
Post by: leapinlew on February 22, 2020, 07:09:55 pm
OK... lamination is finished except for one panel, which I just don't have time for today. I'm bummed because I had everything out/set up and I had to put it all away and hopefully get to do it tomorrow. The panels I did laminate came out nice so I'm happy I went ahead with it.For my laminated cabinets, I basically assembled the whole thing when it was bare wood. I pulled the whole thing apart, laminated the interior pieces, and then re-assembled. I then laminated the exterior sides by laying them down on their side.
Did you use screws only? Did you have to drill holes through the laminate on the interior panels? My side panels are laminated now and my plan is to use some painter's tape so I can draw layout lines on the laminate and then drill holes and screw everything together. I'm kind of making it up as I go.
Glue and screws. On my Tempest bartop, you can see it here:
I built it first:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=101104;image)
I laminated the inside and reattached everything
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=101225;image)
You can also see where I repaired the screw holes
Then I laminated the inside
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=101227;image)
The screws went into the sides of the support beams.
I don't think I'm explaining it very well. I'm sure you are being more efficient, or using some other method. I'm always winging my builds. :)
Post by: javeryh on February 23, 2020, 08:57:06 am
I don't think I'm explaining it very well. I'm sure you are being more efficient, or using some other method. I'm always winging my builds. :)
This is extremely helpful. Thanks. I figured I was going to have to screw through the sides and repair screw holes for my top panel because it will be completely open on the inside as well so no battons. I assume you haven't had any structural issues over the years?
The next thing I did was cut the hole for the coin door in the bottom front panel. There wasn't much to it - just had to lay out where I wanted it to go.
I decided to center the coin door towards the top of the panel. To find the right spot, whatever size the border ended up being from the edge of the coin door to each side of the panel is what I used for the the top border (I also added 1/2" because the very top of this panel will be glued to the power button panel so 1/2" of it will be hidden). Nothing special but I do want to give it a uniform look, if possible.
I'm using a generic Happ 2 player coin door only because I had it laying around and wanted to find a use for it. With unlimited funds I might have chosen something a little smaller for one player but overall I'm quite happy with how it looks.
I measured the back of the coin door to find the horizontal and vertical dimensions and then laid it out on the MDF panel. Next, I needed to make sure the 4 corners were rounded. My door has 1" radius corners so I measured in from the corners 1" along the x-axis and 1" along the y-axis to find the center point for the circle cut out. Then, using a 2" forstner bit, I drilled a hole in each corner. Next, I used my jigsaw to cut the middle section of the panel out where the coin door will be connecting the 4 holes I just drilled. Finally, I used a straight edge and my router to clean up the lines. Only tricky part was being careful with the router where the straight edge met the corner rounded section. I had to finesse this a little but it was pretty easy.
Here is the resulting hole in the panel:
(https://i.imgur.com/8buYWcT.jpg)
And finally, here is what the panel looks like with the coin door in place:
(https://i.imgur.com/DyNwybO.jpg)
Not bad! Today I'm hoping to finish front marquee panel. This will be the trickiest panel to cut for sure because I need to be very precise with the monitor placement and how I'm going to cut out the laminate as well as the speaker cut outs.
:cheers:
Post by: Arroyo on February 23, 2020, 09:06:54 am
Post by: javeryh on February 23, 2020, 10:31:46 am
Nice method for the corners, I’ll have to try that sometime in the future.
Thanks - it's a bit overkill since the lip of the coin door completely hides the edge of the cut out but I'm trying to be as neat as possible both inside and out. I actually took the time to prime and paint all interior (unseen) surfaces for no reason other than my own craziness.
The front marquee panel is being laminated right now... I'm waiting for the contact cement to set for 20 minutes and then it is go time. This is by far the most nerve wracking part of the build.
Post by: javeryh on February 23, 2020, 12:47:49 pm
The front marquee panel is being laminated right now... I'm waiting for the contact cement to set for 20 minutes and then it is go time. This is by far the most nerve wracking part of the build.
Seems to have worked... just have to cut the speaker and marquee holes but easier said than done. I'm cutting t-molding slots right now. It is such a pain to set the router depth. Anyone got any secrets on how to do this so it is perfectly aligned. I'm running out of edges on my scrap material... ;D
Post by: javeryh on February 23, 2020, 03:01:47 pm
Seems to have worked... just have to cut the speaker and marquee holes but easier said than done. I'm cutting t-molding slots right now. It is such a pain to set the router depth. Anyone got any secrets on how to do this so it is perfectly aligned. I'm running out of edges on my scrap material... ;D
Slots are cut... I did the best I could and any exposed edge (like 1mm or less) I guess I'll just cover with a sharpie marker.
Post by: javeryh on February 24, 2020, 10:53:53 am
(https://i.imgur.com/62jbuCD.jpg)
Once I got that laid out, I drilled a hole in each of the inside corners and then cut out the shape with my jigsaw (by connecting the holes).
(https://i.imgur.com/sNOvKNG.jpg?1)
Next, I took some scrap wood with straight edges and stuck it down around the hole on the lines using double sided tape on the bottom and then painter's tape on top just so nothing would move.
(https://i.imgur.com/ElE2ZP4.jpg?1)
Finally, using my router and a flush cutting bit, I was able to cut all 4 sides flush in one shot. Here is the finished panel:
(https://i.imgur.com/KKPmakj.jpg)
It's a perfect fit! Incredible! Please don't let this level of craftsmanship deter you from completing your projects even though it is an impossible standard to achieve.
Post by: markc74 on February 24, 2020, 10:59:47 am
I did the same thing with my power button and it's a pretty good place for it. I thought about putting an exit game on the same underside part but changed my mind. (Too easy to press the wrong one!)
Post by: Sjaak on February 24, 2020, 11:00:58 am
It's a perfect fit! Incredible! Please don't let this level of craftsmanship deter you from completing your projects even though it is an impossible standard to achieve.
I want to try this in my next build, but I don't feel confident enough. :laugh2:
Post by: wp34 on February 24, 2020, 11:26:46 am
The hardest part was figuring out where to put it since it is completely arbitrary. I decided to align it along a line that is at a 45 degree angle from the lower left corner. I have no idea why.
Nice! That's a simple understandable solution for that decision.
Post by: Arroyo on February 24, 2020, 11:33:28 am
. Nice update buddy, keep it up.
Post by: javeryh on February 24, 2020, 01:58:54 pm
Nice work - and speedy progress!
I did the same thing with my power button and it's a pretty good place for it. I thought about putting an exit game on the same underside part but changed my mind. (Too easy to press the wrong one!)
I did think about adding "exit" and "pause" under there - I did that on my DK+ along with the insert coin button and it has worked out really well (exit to the far left and coin and pause to the far right). The problem is that I still have to explain that to guests because it is not obvious. For this cab, I want the entire experience to be self explanatory - I'm not even going to include a coin button (other than the coin return on the coin door) and I'm still up in the air about pause - I like your solution (press to pause and hold to exit using the same button) so I might try that assuming it is easy enough to figure out. Don't think I've ever mapped a button to the length of time it is pressed before...
Post by: Mike A on February 24, 2020, 02:21:10 pm
Post by: javeryh on February 24, 2020, 02:30:52 pm
You can hide admin buttons inside the cab with coin door access.
I'll probably keep a keyboard inside the coin door for real admin issues but for things like exit, pause, coin, start, etc. I either want them on the CP and easy to figure out or nowhere at all. I'm reasonably sure the CP will have a ServoStik, 3 buttons, 2 atari volcano buttons for P1/P2 start and then I'm not sure. markc74 put a volume knob and an exit/pause button to the far right and I am leaning towards that at the moment. Coin will be wired to the coin mechs on the coin door as well as to a microswitch behind the coin return in case I don't have quarters handy.
I'm going to need help with the CP art when the time comes but I've got some ideas...
Post by: Mike A on February 24, 2020, 02:39:03 pm
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Post by: javeryh on February 24, 2020, 02:57:27 pm
Post by: javeryh on February 25, 2020, 10:20:26 am
The first thing I did after cutting the panel was drill out the hole for the cam lock. It is centered and the center point of the hole is 1" down from the top edge. Easy.
Next, I had to figure out the ventilation - I really like the look and ease of installation of desk grommets for ventilation. They come in different sizes and once installed they make a clean hole and there is no need to mess around with a grill. Someone told me once that hot air rises so I wanted to drill some holes near the top. I wasn't sure how many holes I wanted or what size so I cut out some paper circles and started messing around.
First, I tried 5 across and it looked OK but I thought it was a bit too much.
(https://i.imgur.com/epaOXF6.jpg)
So what about using 4 but making them slightly bigger?
(https://i.imgur.com/u7X7ZZW.jpg)
Not bad... but let's see what 4 of the smaller sized holes would look like...
(https://i.imgur.com/dedJVql.jpg)
Perfect! OK - honestly, all of them are fine plus this is the back door so no one will even see it but still... I laid out the "vents" just to confirm:
(https://i.imgur.com/RHpmsjB.jpg?1)
Yup.
I know you are on the edge of your seat to see the finished installation... more later. :laugh2:
Post by: javeryh on February 25, 2020, 02:29:19 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/X3Ubt6d.jpg)
And here's what it will look like when they are installed on the back door (the whole thing will be painted black):
(https://i.imgur.com/RDU4zuy.jpg)
They stay in without glue and the openings are big enough that I don't think heat will be an issue.
Here's a close up of the desk grommet. They were $6 for a 5 pack on Amazon.
(https://i.imgur.com/uZekl3y.jpg)
Good stuff.
Post by: markc74 on February 25, 2020, 03:32:19 pm
Post by: javeryh on February 25, 2020, 04:03:03 pm
Love those grommets. Exactly what I've been using for speaker holes.
I used them in my last project - came out really nice and they are so easy. You don't have to treat the inside edge of the MDF at all.
(https://i.imgur.com/FgtTMVh.jpg)
I'm also planning to use Duratex paint on the outside of the top panel and the back panel. That is the paint shown in this picture - very textured and when it is fully cured it creates a very hard shell. It's supposed to be for speakers and I have a 1/2 gallon left over after building a bunch of speakers a couple of years ago and sine it is like $70/gallon I'm determined to use it up!
Post by: wp34 on February 25, 2020, 05:14:53 pm
I used these PVC vents from Menards for one of my builds. You can find a lot of inspiration in the plumbing aisle.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=180037;image)
Post by: javeryh on February 26, 2020, 10:03:53 am
Those grommets are pretty clever javeryh. :cheers:
I used these PVC vents from Menards for one of my builds. You can find a lot of inspiration in the plumbing aisle.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=180037;image)
Wow - great solution. Next time I'm at Home Depot I'm going to take a look at plumbing - I bet there is a ton of usable stuff.
Post by: wp34 on February 26, 2020, 10:11:13 am
Sorry for the thread derail.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=136713.0;attach=302264;image)
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=136713.0;attach=302270;image)
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=297988;image)
Post by: yotsuya on February 26, 2020, 10:34:53 am
Plumbing is the worst but they have a lot of cool shapes you can work with. I have a bunch of PVC flanges in different sizes I keep for routing templates.
Sorry for the thread derail.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=136713.0;attach=302264;image)
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=136713.0;attach=302270;image)
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=297988;image)
No, you’re right - there’s lots of perfect stuff like this in the plumbing section. I’ve used similar items for vent ports as well! :cheers:
Post by: Mike A on February 26, 2020, 10:38:13 am
Post by: javeryh on February 26, 2020, 10:48:06 am
Plumbing is the worst but they have a lot of cool shapes you can work with. I have a bunch of PVC flanges in different sizes I keep for routing templates.
Sorry for the thread derail.
Hold up... that is a really creative way to rout a perfect circle. I'm always struggling with setting up my (home made) circle cutting jig in the right position...
Post by: wp34 on February 26, 2020, 11:35:23 am
Plumbing is the worst but they have a lot of cool shapes you can work with. I have a bunch of PVC flanges in different sizes I keep for routing templates.
Sorry for the thread derail.
Hold up... that is a really creative way to rout a perfect circle. I'm always struggling with setting up my (home made) circle cutting jig in the right position...
Same here. I have a circle jig but only use it if I need a very specific circumference. For circles or arcs that only need to be "close" these PVC "templates" are great time savers.
This is the most ridiculous arc I ever routed. It was as stupid as it was fun.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,116519.msg1277723.html#msg1277723
Post by: javeryh on February 26, 2020, 11:41:56 am
This is the most ridiculous arc I ever routed. It was as stupid as it was fun.
Haha that is awesome. I take it you are like me in that you don't trust your own eyes when it comes to cutting to a line. I watch a lot of woodworking videos on YouTube and I'm always amazed at how they can cut close to a line and then just "clean it up" at the disc sander or whatever and it looks perfect - smooth curve or straight line - they just eyeball it. If I can build a jig to make something precise - that's what I'm going to do.
Post by: javeryh on February 26, 2020, 11:47:00 am
I decided I wanted to fit both the monitor and the speakers on the inside of this panel so I started playing with the design. I used some regular paper to cut out the shapes for the monitor and the speakers. This is what it would look like with just the monitor:
(https://i.imgur.com/rjD574e.jpg)
I like this look. It's very clean and simple, which is something I am going for with this cabinet's overall design. However, there is nowhere else to put the speakers I could think of with my limited brainpower so I decided I needed to incorporate them here somehow.
So for my next try I placed square shapes in the bottom corners the exact size of the speakers I plan on using (Amazon Basics).
(https://i.imgur.com/KPnADg9.jpg)
This looked... OK. I wasn't thrilled but at least it looked uniform and when I pictured a black laminated panel with the bright marquee and black speaker cloth covering the speaker cutouts it started to look better in my head. But I wanted to play with it more before committing to the design so I altered the look of the speaker cutouts and found a design I liked.
(https://i.imgur.com/a6i3uuM.jpg)
Everything now looks like it "matches" (similar rectangular shapes for all cutouts) and I was able to maintain a uniform border around all the edges of all 3 cutouts - this last point was very important to me for proportionality. I think this works.
If you look close, you can see where I actually have to cut - the red rectangle is the monitor cutout and the blue rectangles are the speaker cutouts. You can see that quite a lot of material will be removed when it is all said and done (which makes me worry about structural integrity). This design will require covering approximately the bottom 1/3 of each speaker, but I don't think that will matter as long as some sound can escape. Most of the games I'll be playing on this thing aren't that sophisticated - I probably won't even include a subwoofer.
I wanted to show my thought process here because it took me a while to get here even though the results are completely boring. I had to think about it over the course of a few days before I finally arrived at a design I liked through iterating on the main idea. I'm hoping this might encourage people to try different things and not get tunnel vision with the first thing you think of or even worse to just start cutting material without putting in some real thought.
Next up is cutting this thing. :cheers:
Post by: wp34 on February 26, 2020, 11:50:56 am
This is the most ridiculous arc I ever routed. It was as stupid as it was fun.
Haha that is awesome. I take it you are like me in that you don't trust your own eyes when it comes to cutting to a line. I watch a lot of woodworking videos on YouTube and I'm always amazed at how they can cut close to a line and then just "clean it up" at the disc sander or whatever and it looks perfect - smooth curve or straight line - they just eyeball it. If I can build a jig to make something precise - that's what I'm going to do.
Yeah I'm exactly that way. Do not trust my own eyes. I also like to mock things up exactly like you did in the post above this. :cheers:
Post by: javeryh on February 27, 2020, 10:40:31 am
This is how it looked after the router step. In order to get the monitor to fit, I used a flush cut hand saw on the corners to remove the material that the router could not reach.
(https://i.imgur.com/BNszs9M.jpg)
Perfect fit for the monitor! I decased it as you can see from the picture.
(https://i.imgur.com/umnZQZt.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/SUqv9Un.jpg)
The last bit of woodworking I had to do on this panel was cut out the 2 holes for the speakers. I repeated the drill/jigsaw/router process and when I was done the speaker grills fit perfectly.
(https://i.imgur.com/ieFdNNN.jpg)
If you look close, you can see the round area behind the speaker grills - the actual speakers just screw in place in the 4 holes. The only thing I need to work out is how to get everything to stay in place. I could build some supports from behind but honestly I think some hot glue around the edge of the speaker grill where you won't see it from the front will do the trick.
One concern I have is that I removed a lot of material from the MDF panel... hopefully not too much. The laminate on the front side and the monitor mount should add some rigidity to the entire thing but I won't know until I actually finish... I came up with a few ideas on how to solve this problem and Arroyo gave me some advice and the light bulb went off. I'll post that process next.
:cheers:
Post by: wp34 on February 27, 2020, 02:57:54 pm
One concern I have is that I removed a lot of material from the MDF panel... hopefully not too much. The laminate on the front side and the monitor mount should add some rigidity to the entire thing but I won't know until I actually finish... I came up with a few ideas on how to solve this problem and Arroyo gave me some advice and the light bulb went off. I'll post that process next.
:cheers:
That was my first thought when I saw the pictures. Looking forward to seeing how you solved it.
Post by: leapinlew on February 27, 2020, 05:31:22 pm
Post by: Arroyo on February 27, 2020, 05:36:43 pm
Post by: javeryh on February 28, 2020, 09:18:03 am
That turned out real nice. Everything looks like it fits in real tight.
That was my first thought when I saw the pictures. Looking forward to seeing how you solved it.
Thanks - everything is nice and snug. I decided to mount the monitor this way for purely (minor?) aesthetic reasons and of course it turns into a giant headache. Getting the monitor as close to the face of the panel was most important to me. If I had just cut a hole the size of the marquee and mounted the monitor behind the panel, I am not sure I was going to like the end result. I didn't want there to be a 1/2" or more space to fill, I didn't want to treat those inside edges and I was afraid of casting shadows on the marquee, etc.
I think I worked it out...
Looking good!
Thanks lew! I'm quite pleased with this build so far - the small cabaret shape is really cool and the CP will be at the normal height.
At a boy javery, keep it up, this should turn out great! Have you nailed down the CRT yet?
I have been unable to get my hands on a 17" CRT yet. I've been watching a few eBay listings but I really don't want to pay $100 for it. If I get a sense it will slow my progress down I'll probably bite the bullet but I'm trying to keep costs to under $500 total for this thing and I'm already hovering around $200 and still have a lot of stuff to buy. There's a small chance I'll be ready to install it sometime over the next 2 weeks so I better figure it out!
Post by: javeryh on February 28, 2020, 03:26:28 pm
The challenge was where exactly to place the monitor. The panel itself is made out of 1/2" MDF. If I was to simply mount the monitor to the back of the panel and cut the holes, the cross section of the panel would be visible and in my head I just didn't think it would look right with the monitor set that far back - especially given the angle that most people would be viewing the marquee from (looking down).
Potential solutions:
1. Monitor behind front panel. Cut slightly oversized holes in the front panel for the viewable marquee area and speakers. Cover the entire panel with black laminate and cut openings for the marquee and speakers to exact dimensions. Mount the monitor to the back of the panel with a 1/2" piece of plexiglas filling the gap between the laminate and the front of the monitor. Mount the speakers directly to the laminate.
- Pros: Nice laminate finish on the front surface; speakers basically flush mounted.
- Cons: Potentially ugly 1/2" gap between monitor and front of panel; need to laminate many other panels for uniform finish.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5zSvaRGGlbQ/XkVlVcLOlxI/AAAAAAAACfY/JCdbcyPdsP8zirHDtVOYcC8jRzkCOvlFgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Option%2B1.png)
2. Monitor flush with front panel. Cut holes in the front panel exactly the size of the monitor speakers. Cover the entire panel with black laminate and cut openings for the marquee and speakers to exact dimensions. Mount the monitor to the back of the laminate with a 1/16" piece of plexiglas filling the gap between the laminate and the front of the monitor. Mount the speakers directly to the laminate.
- Pros: Nice laminate finish on the front surface; speakers basically flush mounted. No gap between monitor and front of panel.
- Cons: Structural integrity is low (to the point where I worry about the unsupported laminate area bowing outward). The black laminate is very thin and would comprise a large majority of the front panel (meaning, it won't actually be laminated to anything); need to laminate many other panels for uniform finish.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qWX17o91qWI/XkVlZ3IazII/AAAAAAAACfc/S2q5df9m4Ww3g9OWrZFS-kHdwnp3L9s7ACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Option%2B2.png)
3. Monitor almost flush with front panel. Cut holes in the front panel exactly the size of the monitor speakers. Cover the entire panel with 1/8" hardboard (instead of black laminate) and cut openings for the marquee and speakers to exact dimensions. Mount the monitor to the back of the 1/8" hardboard with a 1/16" piece of plexiglas filling the gap between the hardboard and the front of the monitor. Mount the speakers directly to the hardboard.
- Pros: Structural integrity should be fine. Cheaper because I don't have to buy laminate; can glue to MDF when assembling cabinet instead of relying on screws through laminate.
- Cons: 1/8" gap between monitor and front of panel and the speakers. This is fairly thin so maybe no big deal; would require painting instead of laminating - finish not quite as nice.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iQW235wXZBo/XkVleXJNukI/AAAAAAAACfg/UbYRL5b1ot84aS65i_-9s3xqtBHHi66aACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Option%2B3.png)
Option #1 was a non-starter for me due to the 1/2" gap as previously described. My first instinct was to try Option #2 because I really want the monitor to be flush with the front panel. So I cut the holes in the front panel as shown in my other post and ordered the laminate from Home Depot. Of course, things never go as planned. When I opened up the box of laminate it was cracked into about 10 different pieces so I had to return it and with a 2 week lead time, I was annoyed. However, this also gave me the opportunity to inspect the durability of the laminate and that's when I started to worry that Option #2 wasn't going to be structurally sound.
I shot Arroyo a PM to get his thoughts and he indicated that structural integrity would worry him too which confirmed my instincts so I started thinking of alternative solutions and came up with Option #3. It's not perfect but if you think of the 1/8" hardboard as a replacement for the laminate, it starts to make sense. The only real negative is the 1/8" thickness of the hardboard itself. But then the more I thought about it the more I realized I didn't want to paint that much so I decided to try and make Option #2 work... which I did, but not exactly as described!
So after all that... I didn't end up using any of this. :laugh2:
But it was time well spent because the solution did present itself. ;D
Post by: leapinlew on February 28, 2020, 05:08:10 pm
Ditch the plexiglass, mount the monitor as close as possible, or possibly route out everything but 1/4" of wood to provide some rigidity.
Post by: MiteWiseacre on February 28, 2020, 09:36:50 pm
Con: screws are forever buried under laminate, just remove monitor from rear for servicing.
Post by: javeryh on February 28, 2020, 09:51:05 pm
Make the plexiglass larger than the monitor, route out the 1/2” to inset the plexi, screw it into the mdf and then cover with laminate.
Con: screws are forever buried under laminate, just remove monitor from rear for servicing.
This was pretty much Arroyo's idea. He even mocked it up for me in sketch-up.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=381347;image)
So I took his idea and kind of sort of inlaid 1/8" hardboard instead of plexi. It will make sense when I post the pics probably tomorrow.
Post by: javeryh on March 02, 2020, 12:48:11 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200302/47b913a1efc24bc017fbd0911a3628b9.jpg)
4 stitches and out of commission. I’m so mad.
Post by: Arroyo on March 02, 2020, 01:22:53 pm
Post by: wp34 on March 02, 2020, 01:54:31 pm
Post by: javeryh on March 02, 2020, 02:11:38 pm
---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- dude, was that woodworking? Glad it’s still connected.
yeah... I don't know how it is possible. I sliced my left hand (2 fingers) with my utility knife but the thing is - I'm left handed. I have no idea how it happened. I was trying to correct a pretty big mistake so I was frustrated and probably should have taken a break. Lots and lots of blood - got a drop on the panel I was working on so that will be a good reminder.
After spending the better part of 3 days working on the front panel, I cut the marquee hole out 3/4" lower than I had originally planned. I forgot to take into consideration the 3/4" panel for the control panel that will be resting on top. I wanted a uniform border around the marquee hole but now on top there will be an extra 3/4" throwing the proportions off slightly... maybe. Once I realized my mistake I was so pissed and should have shut it down for the day but I didn't. I immediately started cutting a replacement panel - and I was rushing.
However, after sleeping on it, I think my mistake might be OK... I was planning on rounding over the control panel so it wouldn't have been a true 3/4" to the eye and now I'm thinking if I make the CP art cover the roundover in any color other than black, it will look purposeful and the black laminate border around the marquee will be in proportion. I was already thinking of the black and white Asteroids cabaret art so I'll just have to make sure that part of the artwork is white.
Post by: Arroyo on March 02, 2020, 02:56:36 pm
Once I realized my mistake I was so pissed and should have shut it down for the day but I didn't. I immediately started cutting a replacement panel - and I was rushing.
Done that many times. When you only get a little time to work on it you feel like you have to sprint to get anything done. I always regret it though, cause my mistakes usually mean twice the amount of work to fix it.
Glad you’ll be alright, and bummer again man.
Post by: javeryh on March 02, 2020, 05:04:13 pm
This is exactly right. Time is so limited and yesterday I was thinking I’d have an actual 3D cabinet by the end of the day but my mistake set me back by a lot. As I was making the cut I was thinking it wasn’t right but I couldn’t figure out why. So then I thought maybe the mistake was made a few days ago and I was correcting it.Once I realized my mistake I was so pissed and should have shut it down for the day but I didn't. I immediately started cutting a replacement panel - and I was rushing.
Done that many times. When you only get a little time to work on it you feel like you have to sprint to get anything done. I always regret it though, cause my mistakes usually mean twice the amount of work to fix it.
Glad you’ll be alright, and bummer again man.
I’m not sure I’m going to have to use the second panel though. I need to think about it. I’ll mock it up and get some opinions so you guys can better understand what happened.
Post by: javeryh on March 03, 2020, 09:20:04 am
So next up was figuring out how to get the monitor as close to the laminate as possible. I decided that I just couldn't live with a 1/2"+ gap between the front panel and the front of the monitor. So what I decided to do was try and add a 1/8" piece of hardboard to the monitor cutout area for stability in the area in front of the monitor that will not be seen and mount the monitor behind that. The top part will have a piece of 1/8" plexiglas to protect the monitor screen and match up with the hardboard.
I don't think I can explain this as well as the pictures so here goes:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-YJvAYrX6Xl0/XkqsoiG2kWI/AAAAAAAACf0/D-V1Y3pBKGAjrO6JRLIw-fcv-KpEhs-ZwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Untitled.png)
I didn't take any pictures of cutting the hardboard but all I did was cut a rectangle to the exact size BELOW the opening for the marquee and glue it in place. I tried to make it as flush with the rest of the front panel as possible so that I can eventually laminate over the entire thing.
As you can see from the pictures above, the glue-up was pretty complicated. I had to get as much even pressure as I could along the thin 1/8" thickness of the hardboard panel.
It worked!
(https://i.imgur.com/TwmypR1.jpg?1)
This is what it looked like after letting the glue dry overnight and removing the clamps. I'll have to scrap off some of the glue squeeze out but I should be able to easily laminate over top of this now and not worry so much about structural integrity due to the thin laminate.
(https://i.imgur.com/c9Rm6LN.jpg)
The next thing I did was laminate the panel and everything was going according to plan until I cut out the holes for the marquee and speakers...
Post by: Arroyo on March 03, 2020, 10:00:33 am
Post by: Mike A on March 03, 2020, 10:02:25 am
Post by: javeryh on March 03, 2020, 10:16:01 am
Your flush trim bit wasn’t set at the proper depth and ate into the material?
For the mistake I made? Nope - I didn't actually make a mistake with the tools. It was purely a brain fart on my end. Imagine this panel but with the laminate on top - I laid out the holes for the marquee and speakers to be cut out of the laminate... but the marquee hole was laid out 3/4" lower than it should have been. My cuts were perfect though!
This cab should be called the widowmaker.
Ha! I read that as "windowmaker" at first glance... both would seem to work.
Post by: Jimbo on March 03, 2020, 02:48:33 pm
Shame you're not in the UK... I have a spare boxed NOS Hantarex Polo/3 17" that would be perfect! :banghead:
Looking forward to seeing how this turns out :) I myself am in the process of making a Robotron Mini!
Post by: arfink on March 04, 2020, 05:28:16 am
Post by: javeryh on March 04, 2020, 10:13:37 am
You planning specifically on a 15khz 17" monitor? Or is VGA an option?
VGA is fine. I hadn't really thought about it other than wanting a CRT over LCD so it looks a little more authentic. The guts of this cab will be an older Optiplex PC. I'm sure there is software I can use to help the picture quality over VGA or maybe it will be fine out of the box. I've only ever used an arcade monitor or LCDs in my cabs so I'm not really sure...
I've been looking at Dell, HP, etc. and they are all just standard computer monitors with VGA a connection. If anyone has any opinions/guidance I'm open to it.
Post by: javeryh on March 04, 2020, 11:29:52 am
I'm a bit late to the party here, but looks great Javeryh :)
Shame you're not in the UK... I have a spare boxed NOS Hantarex Polo/3 17" that would be perfect! :banghead:
Looking forward to seeing how this turns out :) I myself am in the process of making a Robotron Mini!
Thanks Jimbo. Too bad you aren't in NJ - I'd have taken that monitor off of your hands!
I'm looking forward to seeing your Robotron mini - love those cabs.
Post by: UnclearHermit on March 04, 2020, 06:39:00 pm
So... slight delay incoming...
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200302/47b913a1efc24bc017fbd0911a3628b9.jpg)
4 stitches and out of commission. I’m so mad.
I still don’t get it! How do you cut that finger on your left hand with a knife held in the same hand?! Surely the blade has to always be below that finger! :-\
Post by: javeryh on March 05, 2020, 10:26:02 am
I still don’t get it! How do you cut that finger on your left hand with a knife held in the same hand?! Surely the blade has to always be below that finger! :-\
LOL I honestly have no idea. I was cutting through hardboard, which is... um... hard so I had to score it over and over and over and over again and it was going slow and I was trying to finish up so I was pressing down super hard and I guess the knife just slipped somehow. It's kind of a blur from cutting my finger open to running to the sink trying to contain the spewing blood and then going to get the stitches. The good news is that I had it out of the bandage this morning and I have full range of motion and the cut is healing. I'm hoping to get the stitches out in the middle of next week and then be back at it the following weekend. I am 100% going to the gym on Monday though - this week off is killing me.
Post by: javeryh on March 05, 2020, 01:03:03 pm
Anyone else think the appearance of the cabinet is just as important as the playability? They are like works of art - to me, anyway - so I want this to look nice both inside and out. Now that I had all (most?) of the panels cut, I had to figure out how to treat every surface. Here's the plan:
- Visible Exterior Panels: wood grain laminate (outside) or black laminate (inside)
- Hidden Exterior Panels: black Duratex (textured) paint
- Visible Interior Panels: black laminate
- Hidden Interior Panels: black paint
The first thing I did was label everything with blue painter's tape and then put two coats of BIN Zinsser primer on the Hidden Interior Panels in anticipation of the black painted top coat.
(https://i.imgur.com/h03Ivtm.jpg)
This went on in all of 5 minutes. Easy. Once that dried, I sanded with 220 grit sandpaper to a fairly smooth surface and then applied the black topcoat. I used Rustoleum Matte (or Flat) Black mixed with Floetrol so that it would dry smooth and hopefully eliminate roller marks.
(https://i.imgur.com/rBWnP7y.jpg)
Now I know, this is exciting stuff. I mean you guys are probably sitting at work and browsing the forums thinking, "man what a boring day" and then BAM! You open this project thread and see these sick pictures and then start thinking, "wow, my day can't get any better than this" - you're welcome.
:cheers:
Post by: Mike A on March 05, 2020, 01:09:39 pm
Your update saved my life.
Thanks.
Post by: wp34 on March 05, 2020, 01:24:18 pm
Anyone else think the appearance of the cabinet is just as important as the playability? They are like works of art - to me, anyway - so I want this to look nice both inside and out.
I agree 100%. I like to play my games but end up looking at them much more since they are in our family room.
From the pictures your paint job looks great. :cheers:
Post by: yotsuya on March 05, 2020, 03:30:52 pm
Post by: Arroyo on March 05, 2020, 06:58:23 pm
Post by: bperkins01 on March 05, 2020, 11:05:38 pm
Post by: javeryh on March 07, 2020, 01:05:22 pm
I was going to jump off the top of my warehouse today and end it all.
Your update saved my life.
No problem. I'm just doing my part.
I agree 100%. I like to play my games but end up looking at them much more since they are in our family room.
From the pictures your paint job looks great. :cheers:
Thanks! Part of the deal with the wife is that if it's staying in the house it has to look good so I put a lot of effort into the final product. Sometimes it works and other times not so much...
Nice. Rustoleum Flat is a good paint. It still has a nice finish that doesn’t look chalky like other flat paints. It’s also not as shiny as a semi-gloss. Good choice!
yeah - it's my favorite paint for cabinet work. It goes on nice and even,
When I saw the picture I thought that you had laminated it. That paint job looks great, nice work!
Thanks! I almost wish I decided to paint the entire cabinet this way. Laminating is what got my finger in this mess.
Fine work :applaud:
Thanks!
Post by: javeryh on March 07, 2020, 01:08:58 pm
I ordered one 4'x'8' Wilsonart Black Matte sheet of laminate from Home Depot. I initially didn't want to spend the money but the results make me think it was worth it.
Unfortunately, I didn't take many pictures of this process because I was rushing to finish in an afternoon while the wife was at work. I also didn't want this to go longer than a day because of the mess I was making with the router as well as the awful fumes from the contact cement even though I was outside.
Anyway, the process was relatively straightforward but not what I would call easy for one person... well maybe easy in hindsight but I sure was cursing up a storm during the process. Here's what I did:
- Cut out over-sized pieces of laminate for each surface with my razor
- Using a 3/8" nap roller, roll on a layer of contact cement to both surfaces (the back of the laminate and the MDF surface you want to laminate)
- Wait 25-30 minutes until the glue is tacky to the touch
- Place thin dowels across the MDF with the glue on it and then lay the laminate on top (do not let them touch just yet - the bond is instant)
- Remove the middle dowel (I had 5 of them) and then using a roller or bottle of wine or rolling pin, press the laminate to the MDF and apply pressure rolling the laminate on from the middle to each end (removing the other dowels as you go
- Trim the laminate flush to the edge of the panel using your router and a flush cutting bit.
After all of that for each panel, here is what I ended up with:
(https://i.imgur.com/FA10D2s.jpg)
Easy! Well, not really - I only have one table so I had to do each panel individually waiting the 30 minutes for the glue to dry for each piece so it took an entire afternoon. The panels are really nice - way better than any paint job I could have done without considerable effort.
Also, you might have noticed that I did not laminate the front marquee panel because I had to set up for that due to the delicate nature of the panel. I'll explain that next.
Post by: Arroyo on March 07, 2020, 01:24:36 pm
That’s a lot of work for one day, nice job!
Post by: Mike A on March 07, 2020, 01:36:06 pm
Ain’t it pretty when it’s done? Actually my favorite part is probably how it feels more than how it looks. So smooth and even.
That’s a lot of work for one day, nice job!
"So lock up your daughter, lock up your wife. Lock up your arcade cab. Run for your life. Arroyo's back in town..."
Post by: Arroyo on March 07, 2020, 01:51:23 pm
Post by: javeryh on March 07, 2020, 06:36:21 pm
Ain’t it pretty when it’s done? Actually my favorite part is probably how it feels more than how it looks. So smooth and even.
That’s a lot of work for one day, nice job!
Thanks - yeah, it sure does look nice once it is finished. Also, the blemish on the bottom of the coin door panel is actually contact cement. It rubbed right off.
Post by: leapinlew on March 08, 2020, 12:25:33 am
rubbed right off.
Whatever you're doing to earn money for your project - keep doing it! It's looking great.
Post by: javeryh on March 09, 2020, 10:11:35 am
Whatever you're doing to earn money for your project - keep doing it! It's looking great.
Thanks lew - I already know I'm going to blow my budget (again) on this one. Oh well. There are worse hobbies.
After the glue dried on the front panel glue-up, I was able to laminate right over the top of the holes that were left for the speakers and marquee. I scraped off the excess glue and gave the panel a light sanding before applying the contact cement. I used the same laminating technique as the other panels (cut laminate oversized, contact cement on both surfaces, roll it on, trim excess).
The trickiest part was getting a flat surface due to all of the holes that I had cut out of the panel. The first thing I did was wrap a piece of scrap hardboard in plastic wrap. This would be used to fill the hole for the marquee cutout and allow me to apply even pressure across the panel during the lamination process but the contact cement would not stick to the plastic wrap.
(https://i.imgur.com/w2SZZMv.jpg)
Then, using various other pieces of scrap material, including the original cut out of the panel for the entire monitor, I was able to create a jig/template to lay the panel on top of so that the plastic wrapped panel was flush and every other section of the panel was supported.
(https://i.imgur.com/9haDpFG.jpg)
And this is what it looked like right before I laminated the panel (I removed the label before applying the contact cement, obviously):
(https://i.imgur.com/L5EPxMy.jpg)
It seemed to have worked. I applied contact cement to the laminate and the areas on this panel that the laminate was going to bond with. It went on easily - nice and flat - and when I trimmed the excess with my router, it looked perfect:
(https://i.imgur.com/t3HZdyp.jpg)
A rectangle! Yay! Next up is cutting out the holes in this panel for the marquee and two speakers...
Post by: yotsuya on March 09, 2020, 10:40:07 am
rubbed right off.
Whatever you're doing to earn money for your project - keep doing it! It's looking great.
I think that went over his head, Lew ;)
Post by: javeryh on March 13, 2020, 12:44:56 pm
The first thing I did was cover the panel in blue painter's tape where I thought I had to make my cuts to protect the laminate as well as to avoid chipping as I cut the holes.
(https://i.imgur.com/O7LwkZY.jpg)
Next, I laid out where I wanted the openings to go (in pencil). I tried keeping everything proportional - I wanted the openings to look similar and the border all the way around to be consistent... this is what ended up causing the mistake. I forgot to take the control panel into consideration - it will rest on top of this panel and is 3/4" thick. So the border along the top should be 3/4" thinner than the border on the other sides to account for this. But I didn't account for it. I'm not sure it's a huge deal but I had originally thought of this and planned for it and when I went to cut the holes I just forgot. Oh well.
After laying out the holes, I used some double sided tape to stick down some scrap wood along the lines to give the ball bearing on my router bit a guide.
(https://i.imgur.com/nppXH47.jpg?1)
And then I cut out the holes...
(https://i.imgur.com/doWjDsN.jpg?1)
The lines are all very straight - perfect rectangles with rounded corners due to the router bit not being able to get all the way into the corners of my guide. I'll probably leave the corners rounded because it's too easy to mess up if I tried squaring them up. Plus, it looks good to me. After taking these pics I spent some time cleaning up all of the edges of the laminate - they were covered in glue.
Here are some shots of the back of the panel.
(https://i.imgur.com/yLF8w6V.jpg?1)
The hardboard used to be 3/4" taller because when I originally planned everything I had meant to cut that opening 3/4" higher. This ended up being a huge pain (literally) to fix. I had to measure down 3/4" and then use a razor and score a line through the hardboard (but not the laminate) and peel it off so that I would be able to sandwich some plexiglas behind the laminate lip and in front of the monitor. That's what I was doing when I almost cut my finger off (stitches came out a couple of days ago and by next week I should be able to have full use but I still have no feeling).
(https://i.imgur.com/RX6x32h.jpg?1)
The plexiglas and speakers will go right up against the exposed laminate. The plexiglas is the same thickness (1/8") as the brown hardboard so the monitor can be placed right on top. I will be securing that from behind using the monitor's vesa mounting screws.
I think I'm finally at the part where I can start assembling all of these panels into something resembling a cabinet. My goal this weekend is to put it together so it stands up and also figure out the monitor mount.
:cheers:
Post by: wp34 on March 13, 2020, 01:53:02 pm
If I understand your "mistake" I made the same one on my Tron cabinet with my speaker openings. I'm the only one that notices but I see it every...dang...time. ;D
Post by: Arroyo on March 13, 2020, 02:12:44 pm
Post by: javeryh on March 13, 2020, 03:46:25 pm
Nice. Looking forward to seeing you put this together.
If I understand your "mistake" I made the same one on my Tron cabinet with my speaker openings. I'm the only one that notices but I see it every...dang...time. ;D
Oh no I did not need to read this... I made a second panel because I'm slightly mad and just have to cut out the openings if I really want to get that 3/4" back.
What do you guys think? I'm sure you can picture it - the CP will rest on top of this panel (above the dynamic marquee) and add 3/4" due to the thickness of the panel BUT I am planning on rounding over that edge so it's not quite 3/4" at least to the eyes. I could do a full roundover or a slight roundover or anything in between. After effing it up I started rationalizing it in my head and I'm actually thinking it might look better with the even border all the way around on that panel with the rounded over piece sitting on top. I will have that tough polycarbonite artwork for the CP so it can be any color I want - I could make it black to try and blend it or maybe white to highlight it (and it would make the uniformity of the front panel even more pronounced). I keep going back and forth, which probably means it doesn't actually matter but this is the stuff I get hung up on all the time.
Nice job Javery. I see now how and why you got injured. I’d have been cursing up a storm as well. Looks like the net result though came out great. Looking forward to seeing it put together.
Thanks - I'm still pretty mad at myself. You can see the blood stain in the upper left corner of the panel on the back. I'm going to paint over it but I'm thinking about adding a drop of red paint to that location as a reminder.
Post by: javeryh on March 14, 2020, 05:06:20 pm
Post by: bperkins01 on March 14, 2020, 05:45:50 pm
Post by: javeryh on March 14, 2020, 06:11:20 pm
oh boy... Sorry to hear that.. I use it a lot.. its very strong stuff.. depending on what I'm holding.. I use a couple of small 1-2" pieces at most.. :-\
I should have known - thought I was being smart by adding a caul to the glue up so the clamps wouldn't dent the piece. I used the tape for the bottom one... oh well.
(https://i.imgur.com/lFOfz9C.jpg)
Post by: javeryh on March 16, 2020, 10:59:56 am
Ugh.
Post by: wp34 on March 16, 2020, 11:03:04 am
Post by: Arroyo on March 16, 2020, 11:18:49 am
I’ve been using it extensively to clean off areas that have contact cement and it’s pretty incredible how well it works.
Bummer.
Post by: javeryh on March 16, 2020, 11:41:10 am
Oh man I feel your pain.
yeah, this was rough. I haven't been careful the last few times I've worked on this thing. I'm rushing through everything because time is so limited. My goal was to be finished by Memorial Day but that's arbitrary so I need to take a deep breath and just do things at my own glacial pace.
Although the more I think about it the more I think I like my "mistake" in where I cut the marquee opening so going forward that's what I'm going to do so there's some silver lining.
Would obviously be a pain, but if you use the lifted areas and start applying Acetone in-between the laminate and the wood you could probably get the laminate off.
I’ve been using it extensively to clean off areas that have contact cement and it’s pretty incredible how well it works.
Bummer.
You know, I didn't even think of trying to remove the laminate and try again. The panel itself is fine underneath. Wish I would have thought of that yesterday. When I said I was taking a break it turns out I meant about 12 hours - I completely remade both panels yesterday but couldn't laminate because I'm out of contact cement. I took my time and it ended up being fun again instead of just another task I was hurrying to finish. I'm stopping at Home Depot at lunch today to pick some up and if they close my office, which I would expect in the next couple of days, I will be off to the races again.
Post by: Arroyo on March 16, 2020, 11:46:05 am
which I would expect in the next couple of days, I will be off to the races again.
That’s funny you say that. I was just thinking about how this virus crap has led to a slew of time for me to work on my project. I was smiling all weekend.
Post by: wp34 on March 16, 2020, 11:57:37 am
Post by: Mike A on March 16, 2020, 12:02:14 pm
which I would expect in the next couple of days, I will be off to the races again.
That’s funny you say that. I was just thinking about how this virus crap has led to a slew of time for me to work on my project. I was smiling all weekend.
So does that mean the completion date has been bumped back from early 2045?
Post by: Arroyo on March 16, 2020, 01:32:53 pm
So does that mean the completion date has been bumped back from early 2045?
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/b47d0bbd2f11c1cb3a30a48938a3aa69/tenor.gif?itemid=12558964)
Listen here sonny.
Post by: javeryh on June 16, 2020, 04:26:12 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/0FzbLXS.jpg)
I had to cut the front panel and laminate it yet again - I guess third time's the charm. I wasn't quite sure how to assemble everything accurately so I did it on its side but getting the 2 side panels to exactly line up took me forever and even still I'm off by 1mm in some spots. Leg levelers should work out the kinks though.
Things should move a bit quicker from here. I ordered the t-molding and vinyl for the side panels. I have an old PC but can't figure out the second monitor to save my life - like, I can't even get it to display anything never mind setting up the marquees. My plan right now is to order a BigBox license - it looks like that will be the easiest way to get it working.
Tomorrow, I will take it all apart, remove the blue tape and reassemble it using glue. Right now there are just a few screws holding it together. Not sure what the glue will even do since most of the surfaces are laminated but it can't hurt (anyone have any thoughts on this?). The screws seem to hold it together just fine.
I finally found some motivation in quarantine even though I'm going slightly crazy. Haven't left my house since March other than to walk the dog and my daily run and evening bike ride. I probably forgot how to drive at this point. Anyway, work is really slow right now and I've been wanting to actually accomplish something so here we are...
Post by: wp34 on June 16, 2020, 04:34:21 pm
Tomorrow, I will take it all apart, remove the blue tape and reassemble it using glue. Right now there are just a few screws holding it together. Not sure what the glue will even do since most of the surfaces are laminated but it can't hurt (anyone have any thoughts on this?). The screws seem to hold it together just fine.
Do you have a pockethole jig?
Post by: javeryh on June 16, 2020, 04:47:59 pm
That looks great. Nice to see Bella again as well. :cheers:
Thanks. I'm quite pleased on how this is coming out - it's the same overall height as Bella's but I won't have to sit to play on it. Now that my kids are older that one doesn't get as much play as it used to but I could never bring myself to get rid of it - too many good memories. The computer died over last summer so I need to fix it too and there are a few improvements I want to make - a lot has happened with this hobby over the last 15 years!
Do you have a pockethole jig?
No - it's on my list. I thought about buying one for this project specifically but never got around to it. Is it easy to line stuff up using the jig? It looks easy but I can't tell from videos. I also thought about using biscuits for the joints but I am not confident I could put a biscuit EXACTLY where I would want it to go... The offset on the interior panels from the side panels gave me quite a headache. I used furring strips but even that was hard to line up exactly - I need to let go of things like being off by the thickness of a pencil line. Drives me crazy in the moment, which is why I work at a glacier pace.
Post by: wp34 on June 16, 2020, 05:18:29 pm
Do you have a pockethole jig?
No - it's on my list. I thought about buying one for this project specifically but never got around to it. Is it easy to line stuff up using the jig? It looks easy but I can't tell from videos. I also thought about using biscuits for the joints but I am not confident I could put a biscuit EXACTLY where I would want it to go... The offset on the interior panels from the side panels gave me quite a headache. I used furring strips but even that was hard to line up exactly - I need to let go of things like being off by the thickness of a pencil line. Drives me crazy in the moment, which is why I work at a glacier pace.
The Kreg jig I have is super easy to use. Lining it up is simple but clamping can be a bit tricky (but not impossible) on larger pieces. If you have furring strips already in place I would think glue and screw would be fine.
Post by: markc74 on June 17, 2020, 08:51:12 am
I used glue and screws with the laminate. Not sure if it added much strength but the thing was solid as a rock when done.
Post by: javeryh on June 17, 2020, 11:27:42 am
Looking really good fella. I think the front panel caused me the most difficulty when I was making my cabaret. Definitely redid it at least once (I've blocked that part out!)
I used glue and screws with the laminate. Not sure if it added much strength but the thing was solid as a rock when done.
Thanks Mark - I'm trying to do your design justice. It's a lot tougher than it looks! It had been a while since I built something this size and getting the sides to line up and make sure everything is square was super tricky. My favorite detail is how you broke up the front panel with that little curve going into the bottom half of the profile but that added a lot of complexity to the build. If you go look at an old Asteroids it looks so plain in comparison even though it is roughly the same shape.
Post by: Arroyo on June 17, 2020, 01:21:18 pm
Post by: javeryh on June 17, 2020, 04:06:36 pm
Glad to see you working on this again javery. I was worried you lost steam, but by the looks of it is turning out really nice. What ultimate techniques/process did you go with for the front panel? You've got my curiosity. Nice work. :cheers:
I live in the darkest colored state on the coronavirus map so I haven't been able to do much of anything for months. Neighbors have it, friends have it and over 1,000 people have died in my county alone. I haven't been able to go to Home Depot and honestly the whole thing has been pretty awful so I lost a lot of momentum. Working from home took a lot of adjusting as well. Things have calmed down over the last few weeks and with the nice weather finally here I decided I was going to finish this project.
For the front panel, I didn't really change anything up. I routed out the area for the marquee monitor and the speakers and laminated over top of it and then cut out the holes in the laminate for everything to peek through. There will be a 1/8" piece of plexi in front of the screen so I got it pretty close to the front instead of letting it sit back 1/2" (the thickness of the front panel).
Once the vinyl and t-molding arrive things should go relatively quick. Since the cabinet is assembled, I can work on it a little at a time until I finish. I still need to source a 17" CRT though. I may use a LCD temporarily if I can't find anything in time but I'd prefer not to. I also need to start thinking about the CP layout and the artwork. I've got plenty to keep me busy!
Post by: javeryh on June 19, 2020, 09:30:25 am
(https://i.imgur.com/1iZxIGq.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/PSWBZq3.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/WK5dsy5.jpg?1)
Today I will fill the 4 screw holes in the side panels with bondo and sand it smooth in anticipation of the vinyl. I also need to order some stuff so I'll spend time on that today as well.
Post by: wp34 on June 19, 2020, 09:47:43 am
Post by: bperkins01 on June 19, 2020, 09:58:24 am
Post by: javeryh on June 19, 2020, 12:28:03 pm
That looks stunning. You have to be very happy with how this is turning out.
Thanks! I am quite happy so far. It will be nice to get this up and running if I can ever figure out the computer/monitor situation.
Nice clean work - I'm a fan of that :applaud:
Thanks - I try to make it look as clean as possible, which I guess everyone does... but if I want this to stay in the house, it can't look like it was slapped together in a weekend even if it does end up in the basement. This is actually a big problem for me - I get so caught up in making it "perfect" that I get paralyzed from working on it.
:cheers:
Post by: Arroyo on June 19, 2020, 03:38:37 pm
I get so caught up in making it "perfect" that I get paralyzed from working on it.
I think we are twins.
Great job buddy, those lines are super clean, and the profile is very classy. Don’t give up on that 17” CRT, that would be icing on the cake. Keep it up.
Post by: javeryh on June 25, 2020, 05:45:41 pm
I get so caught up in making it "perfect" that I get paralyzed from working on it.
I think we are twins.
Great job buddy, those lines are super clean, and the profile is very classy. Don’t give up on that 17” CRT, that would be icing on the cake. Keep it up.
Thanks man. I haven't given up on the CRT but I am getting discouraged. I just don't think I should have to pay $100 for one... I will keep looking!
I made a very small amount of progress today but any progress is good if you ask me. Next up is mounting the marquee monitor in the front of the cabinet. The first thing I did was run a Sharpie around the edge of the laminate to make sure it was black to match the front.
(https://i.imgur.com/mhTJUy9.jpg)
This was fairly easy even though I don't have the steadiest of hands any more. Getting old is fun!
The next thing I did was cut down a piece of 1/8" plexiglas to fit the area behind the laminate and in front of the monitor. I cut it slightly oversized and then sanded down the edge so that it would be a tight fit and stay in place with just friction. I glued a piece of 1/8" hardboard behind the laminate in the huge hole I cut out the exact size of the monitor in the 1/2" MDF panel. This was to provide rigidity for the laminate and also to line up nicely with the plexiglas since they are the same thickness.
(https://i.imgur.com/nk7BPla.jpg)
This is what it looks like with the plexiglas in place (obviously I will remove the protective paper before final installation of the monitor.
(https://i.imgur.com/i28diC1.jpg)
And this is a shot from the front because why not. I love the laminate but the laminate loves fingerprints. I'll need to give this a good wipe down before final pics.
(https://i.imgur.com/x4v4Qgk.jpg)
When I next get some free time I'm going to figure out the monitor mount. I'm either going to (1) use the Vesa mounting brackets and one piece of MDF stretching to each inside wall of the cabinet or (2) use custom brackets made out of MDF or wood to hold down each corner of the monitor. Not sure yet.
I ordered 2 Atari Volcano buttons yesterday and I'm still waiting on the wood vinyl to be shipped so I'm trying to think of stuff to do to keep things moving while I wait. Control panel design is not final yet so maybe I can focus on that too...
:cheers:
Post by: Arroyo on June 25, 2020, 05:55:12 pm
Are you going to reinforce the laminate around the speakers with something?
Post by: javeryh on June 26, 2020, 08:43:22 am
As always looking good buddy! Those are some clean cuts.
Are you going to reinforce the laminate around the speakers with something?
Not really... the front covers of the speakers fit perfectly into the cutouts. They are molded plastic wrapped in speaker cloth so it should be sturdy enough. I'll probably attach them with hot glue or something. They have 4 screw holes on the back for the actual speaker so I think it is a good solution.
Post by: wp34 on June 26, 2020, 09:55:47 am
I'm looking forward to seeing your CP.
Post by: javeryh on June 26, 2020, 03:56:55 pm
That looks great! You are dead-on about laminate and fingerprints. Especially black laminate.
I'm looking forward to seeing your CP.
Thanks. The fingerprints are making me a little nuts but some windex takes them right out...
I am also looking forward to seeing my CP. Not 100% sure yet what I want the layout to look like other than a ServoStik with 3 "action" buttons and 2 atari volcano buttons for P1 start and P2 start. I'm not sold on anything else but I'm also considering a volume knob and exit button. A spinner would be nice since I have one laying around but I do not think there will be room. The CP is only 18.5" wide so not a ton of space and I do not want any confusion on how it operates when people play it... and I also don't want people accidentally exiting a game if they don't mean to. I'm still thinking about it. Part of the inspiration for this cabinet is Minwah's cabaret (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,132372.0/all.html) and the CP on that thing is super simple and super elegant.
I just got an email saying the vinyl siding should arrive July 1. The t-molding arrived today. So next week it should really start to look like a finished cabinet!
Post by: jennifer on June 26, 2020, 04:22:55 pm
Post by: Arroyo on June 26, 2020, 04:28:24 pm
I would think a 100.00 CRT wouldn't be out of line for such a nicely built cab, a Lcd would give it a cheap look, like a 8 liner.Agreed. :)
Post by: Jimbo on June 27, 2020, 05:39:42 am
Post by: Laythe on June 28, 2020, 12:35:36 am
I'm a big fan of this design, and you're doing it justice.
Post by: javeryh on June 29, 2020, 09:40:36 am
I would think a 100.00 CRT wouldn't be out of line for such a nicely built cab, a Lcd would give it a cheap look, like a 8 liner.
Agreed. :)
Javeryh... I will slap you if you put an LCD in this... it deserves better! :)
LOL. You guys are right... I need to find a 17" CRT for this build. I went to the recycling place in town on Saturday and jumped into the electronics dumpster. There was so much stuff in there but no 17" monitor. There was a 17" TV but it just had a coax connector so I didn't take it. I thought about it but that was right around the time I started getting yelled at by an employee to get out of the dumpster. There were so many 4:3 LCDs in there and I am almost certain a majority of them worked. Oh well.
Any ideas other than eBay/craigslist to get my hands on an old monitor?
I love this build. Great work!
I'm a big fan of this design, and you're doing it justice.
Thanks - appreciate the comments especially since your builds are the gold standard around here. :cheers:
My volcano buttons came over the weekend so this week I can start laying out the CP and when the vinyl wood grain gets here on Wednesday I should be off to the races (again).
I'm still tinkering with the computer - I got Launchbox up and running, and MAME working just fine (.217) with about 150 games loaded up. I will probably purchase the Bigbox license so I can use the marquee screen (and custom layouts), however, I learned that you cannot place the image wherever you want on the second screen - I have to PM a mod over at the forums and he will try and modify the xaml file, which places the image dead center as the default. Bummer. Hopefully I'll be able to see what he does with it so I can tweak it as necessary.
Post by: Jimbo on June 29, 2020, 10:29:24 am
Shame you're not in the UK... I have a 17" NOS Hantarex Polo you could have!
Post by: Arroyo on June 29, 2020, 10:34:00 am
Are you 100% settled on 17". You can probably find a 14" cocktail monitor far easier... and I don't think that would look too bad if you make a nice cardboard bezel. 17" are not very common.
Shame you're not in the UK... I have a 17" NOS Hantarex Polo you could have!
There’s a 14” for sale for $75 on KLOV, only problem is, you’d have to pay for shipping from Wisconsin.
Post by: Gilrock on June 29, 2020, 11:37:11 am
Post by: Mike A on June 29, 2020, 11:40:15 am
Post by: Gilrock on June 29, 2020, 12:45:14 pm
---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. Next time I go to AZ I think I will drive. I can load up my van with 19 inch CRTs and make a fortune.
LOL... I did try to ask around on the AZ Collectors facebook group but when you're a brand new nobody asking for a CRT there wasn't any response. I did have a guy buy a use MAME control panel from me last year and when he picked it up he said he was one of the repair guys at ZapCon. He seemed impressed with how nice my CRT image was. It looks brand new.
Post by: javeryh on June 29, 2020, 03:02:57 pm
Only $100? buy it. I paid $500 for a 19" CRT that had a rebuilt chassis and tube swap but it did include shipping across the country. I don't regret it at all in fact I liked it so much I bought a second one...lol.
OK maybe $100 isn't so bad... Now that I know this I will definitely talk myself into the $100 by the end of the week for sure haha. I'm using an old PC in this build so I want something easy. An old 17" Dell CRT should do the trick.
Post by: Laythe on June 29, 2020, 04:05:45 pm
I will probably purchase the Bigbox license so I can use the marquee screen (and custom layouts), however, I learned that you cannot place the image wherever you want on the second screen - I have to PM a mod over at the forums and he will try and modify the xaml file, which places the image dead center as the default. Bummer. Hopefully I'll be able to see what he does with it so I can tweak it as necessary.
Couldn't you just make all your marquees an image the native res of the panel, and then locate the visible part wherever the heck you want?
Like, if you're using a 1280x1024 panel, make a 1280x1024 black image with the 1280x300 (or whatever) marquee wherever you want. To get good results you're going to be photoshopping the heck out of all the marquees to make them fit your aspect ratio anyway. Bigbox can put that fullscreen image "centered" or at 0,0 or anything it wants, and you can have complete control over the result, no patch or config hackery required.
Post by: bperkins01 on June 29, 2020, 04:11:19 pm
---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. Next time I go to AZ I think I will drive. I can load up my van with 19 inch CRTs and make a fortune.Road trip?
Post by: Mike A on June 29, 2020, 04:13:23 pm
Post by: jennifer on June 29, 2020, 04:19:50 pm
Post by: Mike A on June 29, 2020, 04:23:43 pm
Post by: Laythe on June 29, 2020, 05:53:12 pm
Laythe...Omg you make that sound l little too easy...My local bigbox won't talk to Jenn, can't get me out of the shop fast enough, So over the years had to learn that the hard way...I just spent the last week trying to just get the scans for my new secret project (long story🙄).
Jennifer, or javeryh - Let me know if you want a hand formatting marquees for digital panels. I did a bunch of it for Mimic, I can make up some examples of what I mean. Send me a PM if you wanna take me up on it.
It could be scripted via imagemagick if you need many hundreds done, but a good game list for a mame cabinet shouldn't be that big. Better to do a couple dozens of good games well, than a thousand games badly.
Post by: javeryh on June 30, 2020, 11:24:43 am
Jennifer, or javeryh - Let me know if you want a hand formatting marquees for digital panels. I did a bunch of it for Mimic, I can make up some examples of what I mean. Send me a PM if you wanna take me up on it.
It could be scripted via imagemagick if you need many hundreds done, but a good game list for a mame cabinet shouldn't be that big. Better to do a couple dozens of good games well, than a thousand games badly.
Thanks Laythe - this is very generous of you. I'll let you know if I can't get it working when the time comes.
So the vinyl was delivered and one of the rolls was crushed during shipping. The roll has some folds in it... I'm annoyed. Can this be smoothed out during the application process or do I need to wait another month for a new shipment?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200630/a36fcf8810f7f9553f90f8d60e4adda0.jpg)
Post by: Jimbo on June 30, 2020, 11:55:26 am
Post by: javeryh on June 30, 2020, 12:03:07 pm
I don't know, but could you cut a spare bit off, fold it, and then see what happens on a spare bit of wood?
Great idea. I'll test it out.
The folds are also somewhat close to the end of the roll and if I line it up all the way to the other side with the back of the cabinet there is only about 1" where it could be seen. Assuming I can smooth it out decently I'll probably just go with it. I just don't want this to sit for another month if I can avoid it.
Post by: bperkins01 on June 30, 2020, 12:12:51 pm
Post by: Jimbo on June 30, 2020, 03:27:42 pm
I don't know, but could you cut a spare bit off, fold it, and then see what happens on a spare bit of wood?
Great idea. I'll test it out.
Just make sure you cut a spare bit and not the bit you need to use! :)
Post by: javeryh on June 30, 2020, 04:47:58 pm
My other thought is to just add some blocking on the bottom for some leg levelers. That would get it off of the ground as well but not sure how it will look. I'm going for aesthetics here over functionality. If they will both do the trick, I want to go with what will look better. Also, something to consider is that the extra 1" would make the CP an even better height.
Post by: bperkins01 on June 30, 2020, 04:52:51 pm
These are my favorite at the moment.
You can even get it 1/2" off the ground. If the floor is slightly uneven - it will rock around.. Put some feet on it and protect your woodworking.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B081PR4DDH/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B081PR4DDH/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Post by: javeryh on June 30, 2020, 07:29:54 pm
Blocking and levelers.
These are my favorite at the moment.
You can even get it 1/2" off the ground. If the floor is slightly uneven - it will rock around.. Put some feet on it and protect your woodworking.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B081PR4DDH/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B081PR4DDH/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
OK... I'll give the blocking a shot. It's easiest. I have some leg levelers but they aren't heavy duty or anything. They have a threaded insert but not sure how high I can go with them. I'm guessing they will work though. I'll cut 4 square blocks for the corners and drill a hole in the center and see what happens. I'll mount them with double sided tape, which should hold for testing purposes, before I glue the blocks in place permanently.
Post by: javeryh on July 01, 2020, 01:20:49 pm
I cut some blocks 3/4" thick and drilled some holes in the center.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200701/fe3ceaf095326e4eda01fd2123a081ea.jpg)
Then, using some super glue, I inserted the threaded bits into the holes.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200701/52d523f961839dc2df7ae197e5afef09.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200701/3b3ca6bbbc8457bdf5b6a6b9d545ec10.jpg)
Then I screwed the leg levelers in place.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200701/a2c775bf2eeaafa16099e0a1ec015d2e.jpg)
Then using a spacer I made from some 1/2" pine square dowel, I placed all of the blocks in place. The problem I'm having is that the blocks are actually thicker than the area I've got underneath the bottom panel. I recessed them a little bit to hide them.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200701/8000532327352d0fec5cf8e7064b5027.jpg)
This is what it looked like when all 4 blocks/legs were in place.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200701/e9f7511e0d4e9b637a82e1b7186aea29.jpg)
And finally, here is what the bottom of the cabinet looks like off the floor by about 5/8" or so. You can't really see the legs unless you look... but they are there and can be seen if you bend over or get low to the floor.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200701/b031078df1c7a4705a7d0cd2e5ee44a0.jpg)
If I decide that this is the solution, I will paint the blocks black and glue them in place permanently - right now I'm just using double sided tape. What do you think? Is this good enough or should I make the 1" black base all the way around the bottom and then attach the leg levelers to the base?
Post by: markc74 on July 01, 2020, 02:56:48 pm
Post by: javeryh on July 01, 2020, 03:17:56 pm
Personally I'd have it higher off the floor. Mine was a bit too low and it would rub the t-molding when you moved the cab. Not a big deal but prefer to have the side panels above the carpet level.
Wow really? Hmmm... I was thinking it was up pretty high as is - partly because the front panel is higher up than the side panels so you can kind of see under there, which I don't like. I do not have carpet in any room in my house though (other than the theater room) so it will never be on anything other than a hardwood floor. The leg levelers are currently as low as possible so I could still raise it comfortably by 1/4"-3/8" if I want.
I think I'm settled on no base... the more I picture it in my head the more awkward it looks.
Post by: bperkins01 on July 01, 2020, 03:23:33 pm
its because your focusing on it.. 1/2-3/4" gap causally walking by will never be seen..
But the height you have it is pretty nice.
(block your ears MikeA)
I put some blue ground effects LED's under mine..
The way mine is positioned I can look down stairs and see if I left it on w/o having to go down stairs..
(ok MikeA - you can listen again..)
Post by: javeryh on July 01, 2020, 04:25:46 pm
You will never really see the floor gap..
its because your focusing on it.. 1/2-3/4" gap causally walking by will never be seen..
But the height you have it is pretty nice.
I think you are right... here’s what it looks like on the floor in the room where it will likely end up:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200701/f259a7da6d16bf6300f4b5480db5f968.jpg)
I really can’t see anything under there just walking around so I think this is it. I’ll glue the blocks in place and move on to the vinyl siding and t-molding.
Post by: Mike A on July 01, 2020, 07:53:09 pm
Quote
(block your ears MikeA)
I put some blue ground effects LED's under mine..
The way mine is positioned I can look down stairs and see if I left it on w/o having to go down stairs..
(ok MikeA - you can listen again..)
:angry:
Post by: javeryh on July 04, 2020, 03:54:51 pm
I'd prefer to not have to do it because it would be a pain but if the vinyl will come loose over time, I'll do it. The surface needs to be super smooth/flat and painting it will definitely add texture even if I sand it back. I was all set to add the vinyl today and when I started looking up "how to" videos I started seeing conflicting information. I have Fablon brand but this d c fix branded video suggests priming:
https://youtu.be/FkSi9VwdGO4?t=37
Post by: jennifer on July 04, 2020, 04:25:50 pm
Post by: firedance on July 05, 2020, 05:32:17 am
Do I need to prime/seal the MDF side panels before putting the vinyl wrap on? I can't seem to find a straight answer. On smaller surfaces in the past I've had good luck not priming.
I'd prefer to not have to do it because it would be a pain but if the vinyl will come loose over time, I'll do it. The surface needs to be super smooth/flat and painting it will definitely add texture even if I sand it back. I was all set to add the vinyl today and when I started looking up "how to" videos I started seeing conflicting information. I have Fablon brand but this d c fix branded video suggests priming:
https://youtu.be/FkSi9VwdGO4?t=37
All the vinyl i have applied are still stuck to bare MDF, been a few years on some of the bartops i made, no matter if it was ebay stuff or DC Fix, like you say it saves painting and sanding it flat as MDF is already smooth :)
Post by: firedance on July 06, 2020, 01:53:31 am
Post by: ZTylerDurden717 on July 06, 2020, 09:38:05 am
Do I need to prime/seal the MDF side panels before putting the vinyl wrap on? I can't seem to find a straight answer. On smaller surfaces in the past I've had good luck not priming.
I'd prefer to not have to do it because it would be a pain but if the vinyl will come loose over time, I'll do it. The surface needs to be super smooth/flat and painting it will definitely add texture even if I sand it back. I was all set to add the vinyl today and when I started looking up "how to" videos I started seeing conflicting information. I have Fablon brand but this d c fix branded video suggests priming:
https://youtu.be/FkSi9VwdGO4?t=37
I got a sample of adhesive vinyl and stuck some on bare MDF then tried it with primed/top coat.
Both stuck on just fine. The only difference was when I peeled back the bare MDF vinyl it was like a lint roller. The adhesive yanked off a layer of dust hairs/particles from the MDF.
When I yanked off the vinyl from the primed/top coat, it pulled barely any particles because it was sealed. This could've saved me when I had to pull back some vinyl (my error) for my actual side panel application. Had it been bare MDF and got the lint roller effect, there was no way it was going to stick back on with all the particles stuck to it.
My advice is to at least prime/seal the fibers in case you need to lift the vinyl for any corrections during the application process. Then again, you probably won't make the same mistake I did and you'll be fine applying it in one go on bare MDF. Up to you really.
Post by: javeryh on July 06, 2020, 11:04:18 am
I've decided to bite the bullet and prime the side panels before applying the vinyl. It's really not that big of a deal and I'm only going to do 1 very thin coat. I will sand to 220 and then 400, which should end up smoother than the bare MDF. I'll do that today and then finally get the side panels finished up so I can focus on designing the control panel and sourcing that 17" CRT. Slow and steady...
Post by: javeryh on July 06, 2020, 02:07:02 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200706/d75a12de317bb568e58f1a1f0929bd91.jpg)
Post by: ZTylerDurden717 on July 06, 2020, 05:25:39 pm
Lay down the vinyl pre-peeled and make sure the dimensions are good. Once set in place clamp it down (gently) on both sides at the mid point of the vinyl graphic. Peel back the protective sticker on either half and cut the protective film with one half now fully exposed. You're ready to lay down the vinyl. It'll come out great.
You wanna stop worrying about it, right? Here's the trick--find another human to help you hold up exposed vinyl while you focus on pressing down with the squeegee. Even going super slow, you'll be done on one side in 5-10 minutes. I worried too until I realized it's because I didn't have 4 arms to do it by myself. The pros here can do it by themselves but I'm not a pro.
Post by: javeryh on July 06, 2020, 06:57:25 pm
Nice job.
Lay down the vinyl pre-peeled and make sure the dimensions are good. Once set in place clamp it down (gently) on both sides at the mid point of the vinyl graphic. Peel back the protective sticker on either half and cut the protective film with one half now fully exposed. You're ready to lay down the vinyl. It'll come out great.
You wanna stop worrying about it, right? Here's the trick--find another human to help you hold up exposed vinyl while you focus on pressing down with the squeegee. Even going super slow, you'll be done on one side in 5-10 minutes. I worried too until I realized it's because I didn't have 4 arms to do it by myself. The pros here can do it by themselves but I'm not a pro.
Thanks. The second set of hands was key. Got the vinyl down and trimmed.
Now I'm messing with the t-molding... I can't seem to make a 90 degree cut. Not a 90 degree turn with the t-molding.... I mean cutting a piece of t-molding off of the roll at a 90 degree angle. I'm using a razor but it's always slightly off.
Post by: Arroyo on July 06, 2020, 07:05:31 pm
I mean cutting a piece of t-molding off of the roll at a 90 degree angle. I'm using a razor but it's always slightly off.
There’s these:
https://www.t-molding.com/flush-cut-trimmer.html (https://www.t-molding.com/flush-cut-trimmer.html)
(https://www.t-molding.com/media/products/flush-cut-trimmer-2.jpg)
Post by: wp34 on July 06, 2020, 07:13:26 pm
I mean cutting a piece of t-molding off of the roll at a 90 degree angle. I'm using a razor but it's always slightly off.
I've got one of these from Lowes and they are fantastic for cutting T-molding. Doesn't look like they sell them anymore though.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-2-Piece-Multicutter/50074273
These from Amazon look similar.
https://www.amazon.com/Sheffield-1283-Multi-Cutter/dp/B072HJB9BC/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Sheffield+1283+Sh+Multicutter&qid=1594077131&sr=8-1
Post by: ZTylerDurden717 on July 06, 2020, 07:26:09 pm
Post by: javeryh on July 06, 2020, 08:08:24 pm
After priming and sanding down to 400 grit, I put the vinyl on with help from the wifey. First thing I did was take a sharpie around the edges of the panel just in case the t-molding didn't cover everything.
(https://i.imgur.com/in0KTWi.jpg)
Next, I lined up the vinyl and clamped it in place and then cut it down with my razor so that it hangs over the edge only by a couple of inches. I wasn't really precise here but I wanted to make the vinyl easier to work with.
(https://i.imgur.com/TNvdTG5.jpg)
Then using a squeegee and the wife's extra arms, I managed to get the vinyl stuck down. I wish I could have gotten some "in action" shots but I just wanted to get it done.
No magic here - I did the bottom 1/2 of the panel first and once that was stuck down I peeled the backing paper from the middle out to the other end using the squeegee to remove air bubbles and stick it down. I am kind of impressed with the vinyl. It was cheap as hell but seems fairly durable. It even has a slight texture. I'd use it again.
(https://i.imgur.com/AsW3dcQ.jpg)
Then came the nerve-wracking part - trimming the excess. I used a brand new razor and just went around the edge keeping the blade at a slight angle but almost flat against the edge. To get this right, you can't take your time so I just made a continuous cut only slowing to go around the corners. It worked but I could have easily screwed this up.
(https://i.imgur.com/tVcr2jl.jpg)
Finally, I installed the t-molding. This went pretty quick and since I've done this a bunch of times I wasn't that worried about it.
(https://i.imgur.com/DEdmZz2.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/oTBRRyt.jpg)
I really like the way this is coming out. It has that "1970s/Atari" feel to it, which is exactly what I am going for. Tomorrow I will do the other side.
:cheers:
Post by: Arroyo on July 06, 2020, 08:12:55 pm
Post by: bperkins01 on July 06, 2020, 09:01:01 pm
On the T-Molding - if you are cutting 90 deg at an end of a slot (say the bottom corner of the cabinet) then that is simple right? Cut it a little long and then cut up from the underside along the square end of the board from behind T-molding.. I use a single edge razor blade..
Now if you mean where 2 ends meet in a middle some place.. - (which is more likely) - try this:
One side is in the T-slot with its square (or close to square end - doesn't matter) fully tapped into place (Side A)
Cut the closing part of the molding (Side B) so that it will meet up with SideA - but cut it about 1/4-1/2" long so it overlaps.
Next - cut off the spline under SideB so that you can press the T-Molding in place right up to SideA and the flat part of SideB overlays SideA in place.
They will overlap by the 1/4-1/2" excess as I mentioned above.
Now the good part - take that single edge blade (use a new one) - hold it with a pair of needle nose pliers on the overlap and hit it with a hammer straight through both flat parts of the T-molding so that it makes a fresh cut on SideA and SideB.
You will end up with a perfectly aligned joint.. You could hold the blade at a 10 deg angle by accident and it will still be a perfect joint.
Hopefully that makes sense.
Post by: Jimbo on July 07, 2020, 04:52:51 am
Are you sure you want a 17" in there?
I have an original asty cabaret that looks a LOT like this, and the CRT is smaller, maybe 13" or 14". I'd say get a 14". It'll fit better and will look like it's the right size for the cabinet/era. It'll also be waaay easier to find.
See here:
https://klovimg.com/images/2016/12/28/IMG_082828411.md.jpg (https://klovimg.com/images/2016/12/28/IMG_082828411.md.jpg)
Post by: wp34 on July 07, 2020, 08:34:37 am
I really like the way this is coming out. It has that "1970s/Atari" feel to it, which is exactly what I am going for. Tomorrow I will do the other side.
Yeah you nailed that look. :cheers:
Post by: javeryh on July 07, 2020, 08:58:09 am
That looks damn good my man. Well done :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:
Thanks Arroyo. I am quite pleased how it's looking. I'm often disappointed when the picture in my head doesn't match what I build but in this case it is spot on.
Looks very nice! :applaud:
Now if you mean where 2 ends meet in a middle some place.. - (which is more likely) - try this:
One side is in the T-slot with its square (or close to square end - doesn't matter) fully tapped into place (Side A)
Cut the closing part of the molding (Side B) so that it will meet up with SideA - but cut it about 1/4-1/2" long so it overlaps.
Next - cut off the spline under SideB so that you can press the T-Molding in place right up to SideA and the flat part of SideB overlays SideA in place.
They will overlap by the 1/4-1/2" excess as I mentioned above.
Now the good part - take that single edge blade (use a new one) - hold it with a pair of needle nose pliers on the overlap and hit it with a hammer straight through both flat parts of the T-molding so that it makes a fresh cut on SideA and SideB.
You will end up with a perfectly aligned joint.. You could hold the blade at a 10 deg angle by accident and it will still be a perfect joint.
Hopefully that makes sense.
Holy crap this is exactly the info I needed. How did I not know this?? I ended up doing this partly - when I got the t-molding to overlap, I cut the spine off of the overlap part and then tried slicing the top part exactly along the edge of the other piece I was lining it up with. It worked and was pretty close but I never thought of also cutting through the pice that was already in place in one shot so that the cuts would have to line up no matter the angle of the cut.
This is really useful information.
Very nicely done :)
Are you sure you want a 17" in there?
I have an original asty cabaret that looks a LOT like this, and the CRT is smaller, maybe 13" or 14". I'd say get a 14". It'll fit better and will look like it's the right size for the cabinet/era. It'll also be waaay easier to find.
See here:
https://klovimg.com/images/2016/12/28/IMG_082828411.md.jpg (https://klovimg.com/images/2016/12/28/IMG_082828411.md.jpg)
I might be going down the 14" route if I can't locate a 17" CRT soon. I know authentic cabarets used smaller monitors but in this case, I was thinking the bigger the screen I could fit, the better. Outside of checking eBay every couple of days, I haven't really looked that hard. My tiny brain can only juggle one thing at a time. I will bite the bullet and pay the $100 or whatever if that is my only option. I'm probably only
Yeah you nailed that look. :cheers:
Thanks! Even the wife admitted that it looked really nice last night after making fun of me for showing it off.
Post by: Laythe on July 07, 2020, 11:22:59 am
Post by: bperkins01 on July 07, 2020, 11:27:08 am
Do you have a link? (or did I miss it..)
thx
Post by: javeryh on July 07, 2020, 12:26:59 pm
That vinyl and t-mold combination looks great. Good choice and well executed.
Thanks. Not exactly my choice though - markc74 did the same thing in his build. I'm not sure if he used the "leather" black t-molding like I did or just flat black though. I chose the leather obviously to class up the place!
The vinyl looks just like my Ms. Pacman cabaret which needs work..
Do you have a link? (or did I miss it..)
thx
I got it here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fablon-67-5-Roll-Oak-Robust/dp/B00CZ6UW9G
Looks like they are out of stock right now. I'm sure there are other sellers now that you have the name. I tried getting something similar from the US but the dimensions were not right. The rolls were never wide enough (17" for some reason). Maybe I was looking in the wrong place.
:dunno
Post by: javeryh on July 07, 2020, 08:54:32 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200708/368c69afc889904daf7442237fcabbb8.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200708/694f33d1045e681609ec368446736e1f.jpg)
I’m pretty happy with how it looks. Next up is securing the monitor in place in the front as well as the speakers. Then I need to hook up the computer and play with the settings until the marquee displays in the correct position.
I also need to get that CRT so I can figure out the back panels. There is one fixed panel plus the door back there - I made both but left them long so I can trim them back to final size once I mount the monitor.
Post by: LTC on July 07, 2020, 10:31:32 pm
Post by: Mike A on July 08, 2020, 07:46:14 am
That vinyl and t-mold combination looks great. Good choice and well executed.
Thanks. Not exactly my choice though - markc74 did the same thing in his build. I'm not sure if he used the "leather" black t-molding like I did or just flat black though. I chose the leather obviously to class up the place!The vinyl looks just like my Ms. Pacman cabaret which needs work..
Do you have a link? (or did I miss it..)
thx
I got it here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fablon-67-5-Roll-Oak-Robust/dp/B00CZ6UW9G
Looks like they are out of stock right now. I'm sure there are other sellers now that you have the name. I tried getting something similar from the US but the dimensions were not right. The rolls were never wide enough (17" for some reason). Maybe I was looking in the wrong place.
:dunno
I can't vouch for them. I have never purchased from them.
https://vvividshop.com/collections/architectural-vinyl-films (https://vvividshop.com/collections/architectural-vinyl-films)
They are in Canada, but offer free USA shipping for orders over 99 bucks. I am not sure of their shipping cost for smaller orders.
Post by: Mike A on July 08, 2020, 07:55:45 am
Quote
Those flush scissors look awesome. I got frustrated and just ended up eyeballing it. Came out OK - can't tell unless you really look for it. I mean, I probably made a 90.5 degree cut across 3/4" so it's negligible.
You are now reaching Arroyo levels of persnicketyness. I reserve the right to make up new words or add extra letters to words when the need arises. That will probably make both of you itch too.
Of course that level of care and attention to detail leads to the cab you built. Very nice work top to bottom.
Atari made some cabarets with 19 inch CRTs. So I wouldn't be too worried about what size you shove in there as long as it fits. :o
Post by: javeryh on July 08, 2020, 10:22:35 am
QuoteThose flush scissors look awesome. I got frustrated and just ended up eyeballing it. Came out OK - can't tell unless you really look for it. I mean, I probably made a 90.5 degree cut across 3/4" so it's negligible.
You are now reaching Arroyo levels of persnicketyness. I reserve the right to make up new words or add extra letters to words when the need arises. That will probably make both of you itch too.
Of course that level of care and attention to detail leads to the cab you built. Very nice work top to bottom.
Atari made some cabarets with 19 inch CRTs. So I wouldn't be too worried about what size you shove in there as long as it fits. :o
Ha thanks. Arroyo and I are practically the same person except he's better at this stuff than I am. It's hard for me to let go when something isn't "perfect" even though I know it doesn't matter at all to anyone. I hate noticing imperfections everywhere I look. I'm working on it.
Post by: Arroyo on July 08, 2020, 10:52:14 am
(https://i.gifer.com/7J76.gif)
Post by: bperkins01 on July 08, 2020, 10:53:24 am
I let things go all the time
(https://i.gifer.com/7J76.gif)
:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
Post by: Mike A on July 08, 2020, 11:02:39 am
I almost spilled my Irish coffee.
Post by: bperkins01 on July 08, 2020, 11:23:23 am
Arroyo you have to be careful. Shocking statements can trigger a stroke in old people.I see what you did there... ???
I almost spilled my Irish coffee.
Post by: javeryh on July 09, 2020, 02:57:09 pm
To keep things moving... slowly, I started messing around on the inside. First (easy) thing I did was wire up the power receptacle and install it. I will eventually be wiring a smart strip to the rest of this but I wanted to do something...
(https://i.imgur.com/5ihdBqe.jpg)
Here's a shot before installation:
(https://i.imgur.com/Ohpaqly.jpg)
And finally, here's what it looks like installed. So exciting!
(https://i.imgur.com/yZAu3Yw.jpg)
Next up I'm going to install the speakers - it's not as easy as I was hoping - the grills can be hot glued in place but the speakers themselves have a fair bit of weight to them so I am almost positive the glue will either fail over time or even worse, the glue would stay in place and the speakers would pull away from the speaker cloth. So I need to figure out how to mount them using brackets or something. I haven't thought about how to do this at all since I assumed the hot glue would work. At least it is something to do...
:cheers:
Post by: bperkins01 on July 09, 2020, 03:24:31 pm
https://www.amazon.com/3M-Marine-Adhesive-Sealant-4000UV/dp/B0000AY0ND/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=3m+4200&qid=1594322528&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExRFozQVczVkpCUFZJJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMDg2MzY4MVVNNDkyRjRERVQ5VyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMjQ4ODEyMk44WU81TVVKVzFTQyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
or something like it..
Its very strong and flexible.. in fact - if you ever want it to come apart again - you may want to find a way to use screws..
But if you use this .. its not falling apart.
Post by: javeryh on July 09, 2020, 04:02:30 pm
If you want a glue that will hold it.. I recommend this:
https://www.amazon.com/3M-Marine-Adhesive-Sealant-4000UV/dp/B0000AY0ND/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=3m+4200&qid=1594322528&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExRFozQVczVkpCUFZJJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMDg2MzY4MVVNNDkyRjRERVQ5VyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMjQ4ODEyMk44WU81TVVKVzFTQyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
or something like it..
Its very strong and flexible.. in fact - if you ever want it to come apart again - you may want to find a way to use screws..
But if you use this .. its not falling apart.
Thanks - the issue is that the speakers are mounted to a piece of plastic and that piece of plastic is wrapped in speaker cloth. So no matter the glue, the cloth is what will be attached to the back of the laminate behind the speaker cut out and the weight of the speaker itself will cause the plastic to pull away from the cloth. I think. I suppose the glue could seep through the cloth and stick to the plastic as well but not sure I want to go that route...
This is where I'm trying to get it to stay:
(https://i.imgur.com/78MBqAF.jpg)
On the left side, the speaker mounting thingy (official name) is about 3/8" below the front (adjacent) panel but on the right side, the speaker mounting thingy is about 1/8" above the front panel so the same solution to keep it in place will not work on both sides. This is because the speaker mounting thingy is curved on the right which you can see in the pic.
:cheers:
Post by: bperkins01 on July 09, 2020, 04:11:16 pm
that said..
Maybe make some blocking for behind the speaker to hold it in position from the backside.
If the shapes are awkward.. You could add some foam to press against it to keep it snug..
Post by: javeryh on July 09, 2020, 04:23:50 pm
Well - if hot glue had a glimmer of a chance - 4200 would do it.
that said..
Maybe make some blocking for behind the speaker to hold it in position from the backside.
If the shapes are awkward.. You could add some foam to press against it to keep it snug..
Foam is a good idea... hmmm...
My hot glue idea would have worked but I never took into account the weight of the speaker pulling on it. The mounting plate is light as a feather.
Post by: yamatetsu on July 09, 2020, 05:42:25 pm
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=136713.0;attach=317607;image)
Post by: leapinlew on July 09, 2020, 06:11:17 pm
Post by: Jimbo on July 10, 2020, 04:04:30 am
How about using something like the metal strips I used to mount my monitor? You can cut them to (almost) any length, bend them any way you like, if they can hold a monitor, they should be good for your speakers too.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=136713.0;attach=317607;image)
I second this idea. I've done similar in the past and it worked well.
Post by: firedance on July 10, 2020, 07:31:42 am
have used this for various fixings such as speakers and holding down wires on my bartops and other projects.
and these to hold in the montior, easy to bend in a vice and easily cut with a hacksaw :)
https://www.toolstation.com/herringbone-joist-strut/p65340
not sure on US equivalents tho ???
Post by: javeryh on July 10, 2020, 10:50:05 am
I think I've worked out a solution for the speakers at least. I haven't even begun to think about the monitor yet but how hard can it be? LOL. Stay tuned.
Post by: javeryh on July 10, 2020, 01:33:50 pm
This is what I'm trying to do. I need a way to keep this thing in place and also support the weight of the speaker that will get screwed into the back.
(https://i.imgur.com/78MBqAF.jpg)
First thing I did was extend the speaker wire - not sure you can tell but I used some shrink tube to keep things neat and it seems to work. The plug on the end will fit right into the circuit board that I also ripped out of the speakers. You can also see the curved area on the one side of the speaker grill - this is what was giving me fits.
(https://i.imgur.com/WA0RhJb.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/taCxtgt.jpg)
Here is my solution... I made some clips out of 1/8" hardboard scraps I had laying around. The flat piece will hold the curved area down and the angle bracket will hold down the other side. When in position, the curved side is about 1/16" higher than the 1/2" MDF panel it is recessed into which is why I had to notch out the hard board. On the other side, it sits about 1/4" below the 1/2" MDF panel so I made an angled bracket to make up for that depth.
(https://i.imgur.com/k1FLflW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZspbkMq.jpg)
To attach them, I decided to use double sided tape and then just a drop of glue on the top and bottom, which is why the tape doesn't cover the entire surface. I did this in case I ever need to pop them off and make a change (although I highly doubt it - the speakers can be replaced without taking out the grill). Also, I don't really know what I'm doing LOL.
They seem to be holding.
(https://i.imgur.com/OILWNi7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/deisevg.jpg)
I could have been a little neater but it was hard to position everything, keep the speaker in place and not press too hard on the laminate from behind. I could have used an extra set of hands for this but it worked.
Here's where I'm at. Starting to shape up!
(https://i.imgur.com/uWeZNGs.jpg)
Next I am going to work on the mounting the marquee monitor. The more I think about it, the more I think using the Vesa mounts is the best way to go about this.
:cheers:
Post by: yamatetsu on July 10, 2020, 05:16:46 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/deisevg.jpg)
Maybe I'm missing something, this pic looks like you could have used a piece of wood that goes across the speakers, cut out two holes for the speakers and a curve for that thingie in the middle and add some battons to the underside that hold the speakers in place.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=383770;image)
Post by: javeryh on July 10, 2020, 07:49:58 pm
Maybe I'm missing something, this pic looks like you could have used a piece of wood that goes across the speakers, cut out two holes for the speakers and a curve for that thingie in the middle and add some battons to the underside that hold the speakers in place.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=383770;image)
yeah, I'm not that smart... That would have worked but I would have had to make a notch on one side where the grill is higher than the MDF and then add a 1/4" spacer or something on the side where the grill is lower than the MDF. If the stupid grill was flat/even it would have ben easy but I was determined to use the front of the Amazon Basics speakers (https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Computer-Speakers-Desktop-USB-Powered/dp/B07D7TV5J3) without modifying them. See how it curves at the top? That's what I was dealing with.
Post by: zestyphresh on July 10, 2020, 08:38:18 pm
Post by: javeryh on July 11, 2020, 07:21:25 pm
I figured out the monitor mount today - what a pain. Everything had to be spaced just right to use the vesa mounting holes to hold the monitor exactly in the right spot. I haven't drilled the holes to attach it yet - I'm going to do that tomorrow with a clear head instead of messing something up now.
Once that is done, I will be pretty much stuck on the build without the CRT. This will give me a chance to really focus on the software though - BigBox is kind of confusing and it's hard to tell what changes I'm making in real time. So many bells and whistles that don't do anything but confuse things.
Also, for those of you that have done dynamic marquees, is there a hi-res zip file out there for the marquee art? I am working on the game list but a lot of the marquees that I have look awful all blown up. This isn't near final - I'm going to probably try and trim it to about 100 games that I'll actually play. The games in blue will require a second emulator - not sure it's worth it. Are there any notable ones I'm missing? Any must-include rom hacks?
(https://i.imgur.com/EqRMV54.png)
Post by: jennifer on July 11, 2020, 09:58:26 pm
Post by: Laythe on July 12, 2020, 07:16:07 am
Anyone have any thoughts on using CA glue (super glue) to hold the plexiglas in place tight against the black laminate? I'll test on some scrap but I was thinking of putting just a drop of glue in each corner to hold it in place. Sandwiching it with the monitor is not quite enough to do the job...
My thought is absolutely don't do that.
Cyanoacrylate superglue has a tendency to make a permanent white fog on nearby surfaces when it cures. It doesn't always do it - it only does it when it will really screw you over.
This would be one of those times.
Silicone RTV maybe?
Post by: javeryh on July 12, 2020, 09:19:42 am
I am going to try a little square of double sided tape in each corner instead. It will be sandwiched between the back of the laminate and the plexi. That stuff has proven to be very strong to me in the past and in this instance it doesn’t even need to do that much.
Post by: Arroyo on July 12, 2020, 09:25:18 am
I am going to try a little square of double sided tape in each corner instead.
I’d be concerned about that. Whatever adhesive you end up using I think it’s best it covers the whole area. Only having it on some areas would make it more susceptible to tearing/cracking if pressure was applied because the pressure would be applied unevenly.
Post by: javeryh on July 12, 2020, 12:13:34 pm
I used contact cement for my laminate over acrylic work. I looked it up to make sure it wouldn’t harm the acrylic first and it’s listed as an approved material. Worked great on mine.I am going to try a little square of double sided tape in each corner instead.
I’d be concerned about that. Whatever adhesive you end up using I think it’s best it covers the whole area. Only having it on some areas would make it more susceptible to tearing/cracking if pressure was applied because the pressure would be applied unevenly.
Hmm... now I'm not sure what to do. Let's see if these pics will help describe it better... The goal is to just get the plexi to rest flat against the back of the black laminate. Here is a shot from behind:
(https://i.imgur.com/6LxIBsA.jpg)
The black area around the cutout is the laminate on the front panel. I want the plexi to fit snug against it so the end result will look like this (without the protective paper obviously):
(https://i.imgur.com/Xc6TlQK.jpg)
I was thinking of using the double sided tape just in the corners so it won't move. I don't necessarily want a permanent bond (especially if I have to replace the plexi for some reason down the road). My original plan was to just sandwich it in between the monitor and the laminate, however in practice this didn't work. The plexi was still able to move by about 1/32" creating a gap with the laminate even with the monitor in place.
I am definitely at the "I'll figure it out when I get there" part of the project. ;D
Post by: Arroyo on July 12, 2020, 12:21:08 pm
If it were me I’d do the contact cement, and hinge it in place during application. I’m sure there are some other adhesives that’d work, I’d just be sure they won’t chemically affect the Acrylic and still bond with the laminate. I know Bob is a fan of construction adhesive, that could be an option that will give you more time to line things up if you are worried about using contact cement.
Post by: yamatetsu on July 12, 2020, 04:44:11 pm
- Doubletape the plexi to the monitor, mount the monitor so that it sits flush against the laminate.
- Use two layers of plexi, the second layer longer than the first one, so that you can glue those together and screw the bigger part to the board under the cutout for the screen.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=383777;image)
Post by: javeryh on July 12, 2020, 05:39:04 pm
I get your concern about replacing the Acrylic, I had the same concerns over mine (scratches and all that). However I let it go in mine cause there wasn’t an alternative that I could see. Practicing using Novus in the scratches led me to be less concerned.
If it were me I’d do the contact cement, and hinge it in place during application. I’m sure there are some other adhesives that’d work, I’d just be sure they won’t chemically affect the Acrylic and still bond with the laminate. I know Bob is a fan of construction adhesive, that could be an option that will give you more time to line things up if you are worried about using contact cement.
Hmm... what would the difference be between contact cement and double sided tape? Both will do the job here, I think. Contact cement would definitely be permanent though. The acrylic weighs almost nothing so just a tiny bit of double-sided tape would hold it in place.
I was lazy today and didn't do anything but tomorrow is a work day and since my current office is also where I'm working on the cabinet I should make some progress.
You could:
- Doubletape the plexi to the monitor, mount the monitor so that it sits flush against the laminate.
- Use two layers of plexi, the second layer longer than the first one, so that you can glue those together and screw the bigger part to the board under the cutout for the screen.
I think I'm going with your first suggestion. The board under the cutout for the screen is only 1/8" thick so I cannot screw anything to it.
Thanks for all the suggestions guys (and gals)! :cheers:
Post by: javeryh on July 19, 2020, 04:36:14 pm
Here are shots from the back (tape is in the corners) and front:
(https://i.imgur.com/CVSYfLd.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/24kk5j6.jpg)
Once the the plexiglas was in place, I was able to install the marquee monitor. This was a little tricky but not too bad. I cut out a piece of 1/4" MDF the width of the cabinet and drilled holes in the center for the Vesa mounting screws (M4 size in case anyone needs to know). I drilled these holes slightly big to allow myself some wiggle room in case things didn't exactly line up.
(https://i.imgur.com/INfLdNB.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XDjKFp3.jpg)
Once I got the monitor mounted to the MDF, I held it in place so that I could do some fine tuning. I had to make sure the ends of the MDF sat flush to the strips of wood on the sides so that I could screw it in place... but at the same time I had to make sure that the monitor was as far forward as possible so that it rests against the plexiglass. To make small adjustments, I added some washers in between the back of the monitor and the MDF - I tried a bunch of different combinations until I was satisfied with the fit. It turned out that a 1/8" rubber washer plus 1 regular washer (that couldn't have been more than 0.5mm thick) did the trick.
(https://i.imgur.com/Lb7ztni.jpg)
Once I had everything dialed in, I used 4 screws to secure the monitor in place.
(https://i.imgur.com/ful0CuH.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Wxlz2Up.jpg)
So here's where I'm at with the monitor and plexiglas installed...
(https://i.imgur.com/R3JNaD3.jpg)
Now the real trick will be getting the marquee to display exactly in the area that I want... BigBox xml files can be tweaked but I'm not sure how yet. Hyperspin (with Hypermarquee) has a window that can be dragged and resized to wherever you want, which sounds perfect, but apparently Hyperspin is currently broken due to a Windows 10 update in May. No word on when that will be sorted out.
I bit the bullet and started putting in bids on computer monitors on eBay so hopefully I'll have one in hand by the end of the week. I'm a little nervous about this - hopefully whatever I get will behave like I want (power on when computer comes on). In the mean time, I'm going to begin working on designing the control panel and sorting out the artwork. :cheers:
Post by: firedance on July 20, 2020, 10:53:44 am
Post by: javeryh on July 20, 2020, 01:53:15 pm
coming along very nicely :)
Thanks. I'm slow but I'm at least moving along. :cheers:
So... I'm ready to cut the blank for the CP and I'm wondering how deep I should make it. It is 18" wide so I was thinking about 6-3/4" or 7" would be nice and proportional. My DK cab is roughly 22.5" x 7-7/8" so scaling that to 18" wide would give me about 6-3/8" in depth but this seemed slightly shallow so I thought an extra 1/2" to 3/4" couldn't hurt.
Now, regarding controls... I have been thinking of a ServoStik with 3 action buttons as the main layout. P1 start and P2 start and pause/exit button somewhere. It would be cool to fit a spinner or 2.5" trackball on here somewhere but honestly I don't think there is enough room without things looking cramped.
I have been referencing Minwah's (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=132372.0;attach=296216;image) and marck74's (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=149895.0;attach=351775;image) CPs and want to mash them together. I don't have any "must have" games in my list so something generic is probably fine for me. This will also be my only cab with a horizontal monitor set up for what it's worth. I also do not think 18" is wide enough for a SF set up for 2 players plus the admin buttons.
Any thoughts?
Post by: Arroyo on July 21, 2020, 09:06:58 am
On the computer monitor thing, just know you’ll have to throw some artificial scan lines in there for most games as the resolution will be at least 480P.
On the CP I agree 2 player fighting games would be too tight. It’s funny I wouldn’t have guessed that the CP is 18” in length from the pics I would have said closer to 25”. It’s looking real nice.
Post by: javeryh on July 22, 2020, 09:43:03 am
Looking good buddy. Now that I see your monitor will support the Acrylic behind it I agree the double sided tape looks like it works fine. Plus you’ve got the added support form the friction of the TV and the wood underneath right? Well done.
Thanks - I ended up being afraid to use contact cement or any sort of chemicals for fear of them leaking onto the visible surface once the pieces were squeezed together. I think this will hold and if it doesn't all I have to do is take out 4 screws to remove the monitor. We shall see.
On the computer monitor thing, just know you’ll have to throw some artificial scan lines in there for most games as the resolution will be at least 480P.
I figured this would be the case. Sourcing an actual arcade monitor is not going to happen for me so the computer monitor is the next best thing. I'm assuming a scan line generator is easy enough to implement in MAME. I was messing with Hyperspin and it looks like there is a scan line generator option there too? I'm still learning - on my 3rd fresh install attempt. I keep getting errors.
On the CP I agree 2 player fighting games would be too tight. It’s funny I wouldn’t have guessed that the CP is 18” in length from the pics I would have said closer to 25”. It’s looking real nice.
yeah... this cab is small, which is what I like about it. It will easily fit in the corner of a room and I might even be able to get this one upstairs in the office once the kids' toys are finally cleared out of there.
Post by: firedance on July 22, 2020, 10:05:03 am
maybe to keep the same scanlines across everything maybe this may help, not used one myself tho.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Retro-Game-Arcade-Machine-Screen-Scanline-Video-Generator-Board-VGA-Connection/193555204612?hash=item2d10ca0a04:g:AJ8AAOSwOWdfAp-G
Post by: javeryh on July 22, 2020, 12:59:36 pm
the hyperspin scanlines are just for the menus, they are quite basic but may suit your build ?
maybe to keep the same scanlines across everything maybe this may help, not used one myself tho.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Retro-Game-Arcade-Machine-Screen-Scanline-Video-Generator-Board-VGA-Connection/193555204612?hash=item2d10ca0a04:g:AJ8AAOSwOWdfAp-G
Wow that looks like a simple solution. I would want scan lines on everything anyway. It would be weird to not have them in the menus but then have them in game, right? I'm going to file this away for sure.
My monitor won't be here until Monday now so in the meantime I'm trying to figure out Hyperspin. Launchbox just isn't flexible enough, unfortunately. It will make a nice under the TV solution when I get around to building an emulation PC but for this cabinet I don't think I'll be able to get it to do what I want it to do.
Hyperspin is NOT easy though. Very unfriendly for someone like me but I'm willing to learn. So far I've installed Hyperspin 1.5.1 and Rocketlauncher on an external hard drive. Now I'm watching YouTube videos on how to get MAME to play nice with it.
Post by: Mike A on July 22, 2020, 01:17:14 pm
Post by: firedance on July 22, 2020, 03:01:06 pm
Launchbox/bigbox is very easy to get it up and running and looking like hyperspin with the right theme :)
Post by: javeryh on July 22, 2020, 05:08:41 pm
Where do you live that an arcade CRT is not even a remote possibility?
I'm in NJ just outside NYC. I have no idea other than eBay where to get CRT monitors. I already bought a Dell E771P 17" CRT monitor. It's 1024x768 resolution so it's true 4:3. I'll have to add the scan lines to make it look a little more authentic but this should work fairly well... assuming the monitor actually works when it gets here!
Yeah its a steepish learning curve to get hyperspin and rocket launcher playing nice together, took me a good while and like you watched a load of youtube guides, ones by "austin" are good ones to watch, i found it much easy to run all emulators thru retroarch, instead of loads different emulators and keep mame separate.
Launchbox/bigbox is very easy to get it up and running and looking like hyperspin with the right theme :)
I finally have HyperSpin talking to RocketLauncher and can launch games within the hyperspin.exe from the wheel. It has taken me 2 full days "working from home" to get here and if I had to recreate it (which I will 100% have to do based on the way I set it up), I do not remember a lot of the steps. No online tutorial was comprehensive and most are outdated at this point. But it is working and I'm starting to get the hang of things. I even added my own wheel logo to a game that didn't have one - naming the file and placing it in the correct folder - and it showed up in the wheel.
Next, I need to make the layout look like I want - there is a giant MAME logo on the screen which needs to go, among other things. This is just the default theme/layout in Hyperspin. I got the wheel to be vertical instead of round, which I like better but I need to space out the logos more since a lot of them overlap right now.
I have not even thought about configuring controls or adding Hypermarquee or figuring out start-up and shut down scripts/routines, etc. But it's a start.
I also set up launchbox with the marquee on the second screen in about 10 minutes. So easy. But it's just not as customizable as I'd like.
Post by: Mike A on July 22, 2020, 09:04:44 pm
There are a bunch of them in your area.
Post by: Jimbo on July 23, 2020, 07:46:16 am
Post by: leapinlew on July 23, 2020, 08:02:50 am
Post by: jennifer on July 23, 2020, 08:49:51 am
Post by: Mike A on July 23, 2020, 08:57:31 am
Javeryh. Leave your house right now and go do this.
Post by: Arroyo on July 23, 2020, 09:06:25 am
Post by: Mike A on July 23, 2020, 09:12:11 am
Post by: Arroyo on July 23, 2020, 09:14:04 am
Post by: Mike A on July 23, 2020, 09:17:34 am
Post by: Mike A on July 23, 2020, 09:28:50 am
Or talk to this guy. He butchers cabs and shoves LCDs in them. The CRTs have to be somewhere.
Post by: javeryh on July 23, 2020, 10:02:49 am
Anyway, the monitor I bought has shipped and should be here Monday at the latest and then I can get on with finishing up this build. There is still a fair amount to do - mainly configuring HyperSpin and figuring out the control panel (plus getting someone to do the artwork for me). I'm looking forward to actually working on the cabinet once the monitor gets here - doesn't feel like I'm making any progress trying to learn the software.
Post by: Mike A on July 23, 2020, 10:11:39 am
I guess it is too late, but this is all you would have needed.
You could have wired your cab for JAMMA.
Then you could use your PC with the JPac or throw in an arcade PCB or a Pandora's Box, or other multi JAMMA board if you ever wanted to go that route.
Post by: Arroyo on July 23, 2020, 10:14:12 am
Post by: PL1 on July 23, 2020, 10:15:19 am
https://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/vgm/d/huntington-station-arcade-machine-new/7153183111.html (https://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/vgm/d/huntington-station-arcade-machine-new/7153183111.html)Sorry to disappoint any would-be CRT hunters, but AFAIK Josh (a.k.a. our own mrclean (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=profile;u=10000)) isn't butchering classic cabs, he's selling all-new reproductions of classic cabs.
Or talk to this guy. He butchers cabs and shoves LCDs in them. The CRTs have to be somewhere.
Scott
Post by: javeryh on July 23, 2020, 10:22:04 am
https://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/vgm/d/huntington-station-arcade-machine-new/7153183111.html (https://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/vgm/d/huntington-station-arcade-machine-new/7153183111.html)Sorry to disappoint any would-be CRT hunters, but AFAIK Josh (a.k.a. our own mrclean (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=profile;u=10000)) isn't butchering classic cabs, he's selling all-new reproductions of classic cabs.
Or talk to this guy. He butchers cabs and shoves LCDs in them. The CRTs have to be somewhere.
Scott
I think this is right. His builds look incredibly clean and his website says everything is brand new.
Post by: Mike A on July 23, 2020, 10:25:02 am
I am glad his main business is ground up repros. He might still have CRTs laying around from stuff he buys and sells. It is worth a gander.
I will apologize completely for using the word butcher if he doesn't buy any games and stuff an LCD in them. Or he doesn't "upgrade" cabs for people that want an LCD in place of the CRT.
Post by: Mike A on July 23, 2020, 10:31:15 am
• FULL Artwork Restoration
• PCB Logic Board Multi Game Upgrades
• Trackball Replacement (Bearings/Rollers)
• Linear to Reliable New Switching Power Supplies
oops. Maybe you should fact check your fact checking.
Anyways. That is enough of that. Javeryh has a cab to build.
If you want to discuss further how people butcher cabs for profit and it pisses me off, you can start a new thread or PM me.
Post by: jennifer on July 23, 2020, 11:33:51 am
Post by: Mike A on July 23, 2020, 11:47:23 am
Post by: javeryh on July 23, 2020, 01:35:10 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmaHHg3Ljco
I found a wallpaper of the woodgrain that I used on the sides and thought it would make an OK background. Not sold on it but I don't think a solid color would work either. Then I downloaded some "retro" 70s style font to make the "Press to start" text. Not sure I like that either or if it is even necessary - I was planning on putting some instructions on the CP but most people will be staring at the screen so maybe it makes more sense here.
I set the "wheel" to vertical and to the right and I pointed that video window to a folder on my desktop that has a ton of these little movies in there. Again, I'm not sure if these fancy themes work - an old fashioned video snap might feel better. I was also able to make a border around the video (simple brown and black). I also sized the video window to how you see it and set the transparency on the wheel to 1.0 (so no transparency). Some people like the wheel to fade once you stop on a game I guess.
Anyone know how to remove the "1981, Namco | Galaga" text in the bottom left corner of the videos? It doesn't belong there and it is not embedded in the videos - Hyperspin is pulling this from an XML file somewhere, I think.
What do you think? Criticism is welcome because I have no idea what I'm doing.
EDIT: Second attempt. I don't like this one at all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20bKw--tuQA
Post by: javeryh on July 23, 2020, 03:16:22 pm
I might try changing the brown border around the video to black and getting rid of the text. What else?
Post by: javeryh on July 23, 2020, 03:26:31 pm
I still can't figure out how to delete that text in the lower left corner though.
Post by: Arroyo on July 23, 2020, 03:31:37 pm
Post by: javeryh on July 23, 2020, 03:59:59 pm
They all look good to me. Nice personalized touch on the themes, now you got me thinking about my own build.....
Thanks. It's not easy trying to come up with this nonsense. I want it to be somewhat unique and not a copy of someone else's theme. I also want the front end to match the cabinet overall and be self explanatory to operate. I've seen a lot of examples on YouTube where someone builds a cabinet with 30 buttons and slaps Retropie inside with a completely generic theme that has nothing to do with the cabinet they built and the whole things seems disjointed. I'm sure it is one of those things that I'll completely forget about once the cabinet is up and running.
I did figure out how to remove that text from the lower left corner... I can delete it in mame.xml and it won't show up in the theme... but there are over 9000 entries in the mame.xml file. I really don't want to go through it one by one. Also, am I somehow screwing myself over for something else? I know mame.xml is kind of an important file... I made a copy of it just in case.
Does anyone know a quick way to edit the xml?
Post by: bperkins01 on July 23, 2020, 04:04:28 pm
You will be teaching people common sense for a while.
ex: turn a game on.. they stare at it.. can't figure out how to start it.
I show them the coin door and then the coin button..
it take a little time for it to click in...
Post by: javeryh on July 23, 2020, 04:16:44 pm
I put Bigbox in extra stupid mode and people still can't figure it out.
You will be teaching people common sense for a while.
ex: turn a game on.. they stare at it.. can't figure out how to start it.
I show them the coin door and then the coin button..
it take a little time for it to click in...
yeah I know. It's amazing that people can't figure out what the quarters are for...
Post by: yamatetsu on July 24, 2020, 10:50:58 am
I did figure out how to remove that text from the lower left corner... I can delete it in mame.xml and it won't show up in the theme... but there are over 9000 entries in the mame.xml file. I really don't want to go through it one by one. Also, am I somehow screwing myself over for something else? I know mame.xml is kind of an important file... I made a copy of it just in case.
Does anyone know a quick way to edit the xml?
You can do that with Notepad++. It's a free text editor that lets you make your own macros.
Let's say you want to remove every line that is similar to this:
<description>10-Yard Fight (World, set 1)</description>
- Open mame.xml with Notepad++.
- Go to one of the lines you want to delete. Mark <description>, click the right mouse button and copy it.
- Click on the Search menu, click on Find... If <description> is inserted in the Find what: box, click on Find Next. If not, click into the box, erase the text, click the right mouse button, paste. Click on Find next. You should be teleported to the next <description> line. Close the window.
- Go to the beginning of the text, click somewhere into the first line.
- Click on the Macro menu, click on Start Recording.
- Press F3 (Find Next). You should get teleported to the first <description> line. Press HOME. Hold SHIFT, press END. You should end up having marked the entire line. Press DEL. This should delete the whole line.
- Click on the Macro menu, click on Stop Recording.
- Press CTRL+SHIFT+P (Macro playback). This should delete the next <description> line.
- If that worked: Click on the Macro menu, click on Run a Macro Multiple Times..., select Run until the end of file, click on Run.
- Wait a while... You're done. Save the file.
Post by: javeryh on July 24, 2020, 04:52:59 pm
I did figure out how to remove that text from the lower left corner... I can delete it in mame.xml and it won't show up in the theme... but there are over 9000 entries in the mame.xml file. I really don't want to go through it one by one. Also, am I somehow screwing myself over for something else? I know mame.xml is kind of an important file... I made a copy of it just in case.
Does anyone know a quick way to edit the xml?
You can do that with Notepad++. It's a free text editor that lets you make your own macros.
Let's say you want to remove every line that is similar to this:
<description>10-Yard Fight (World, set 1)</description>
- Open mame.xml with Notepad++.
- Go to one of the lines you want to delete. Mark <description>, click the right mouse button and copy it.
- Click on the Search menu, click on Find... If <description> is inserted in the Find what: box, click on Find Next. If not, click into the box, erase the text, click the right mouse button, paste. Click on Find next. You should be teleported to the next <description> line. Close the window.
- Go to the beginning of the text, click somewhere into the first line.
- Click on the Macro menu, click on Start Recording.
- Press F3 (Find Next). You should get teleported to the first <description> line. Press HOME. Hold SHIFT, press END. You should end up having marked the entire line. Press DEL. This should delete the whole line.
- Click on the Macro menu, click on Stop Recording.
- Press CTRL+SHIFT+P (Macro playback). This should delete the next <description> line.
- If that worked: Click on the Macro menu, click on Run a Macro Multiple Times..., select Run until the end of file, click on Run.
- Wait a while... You're done. Save the file.
This worked and is super useful to know how to do. Thank you!
I also learned that in the mame.ini file, I can make the following edits and it does the same thing:
game_text_active=false
show_year=false
show_manf=false
show_description=false
I'm not sure which way is better or if it even matters.
So now this is what things currently look like for me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfD2-oIjBag
Not bad for a start... I'm not sure if I should add text/instructions on the bottom like "move joystick up or down to select game" and "press any button to launch" or if I should do that on the CP instead. I know this is pretty basic stuff but I am trying to integrate everything...
Post by: javeryh on July 24, 2020, 05:41:53 pm
I like the black text should I go down this route... but the yellow text pops more against the background and might be a little easier to read. Also, now that there is something below the video it seem like to balance it there needs to be something above it. Like the name of the cabinet or something... but it has no name. Hmmm...
Post by: javeryh on July 24, 2020, 06:25:31 pm
Any thoughts?
Post by: J_K_M_A_N on July 24, 2020, 07:39:56 pm
J_K_M_A_N
Post by: yamatetsu on July 25, 2020, 06:00:00 am
Post by: Jimbo on July 25, 2020, 11:44:09 am
Post by: javeryh on July 25, 2020, 02:04:18 pm
I like the picture out of the way of the list more in this last one. The text looks good too. Easily readable.
Thanks. I think this is the right direction. It's less cluttered this way.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=383947;image)
Brilliant! This is what was missing. I'm going to mock it up right now. Thank you!
Are you having any "admin" buttons on the panel? e.g. pause, exit, volume etc?
Yes. I'm not 100% sure about the CP yet. I was thinking P1 Start, P2 Start and Pause (with the same button doubling as Exit if you hold it down for 3-4 seconds). I was also thinking of a volume knob as well. All of the buttons will be labeled on the CP. I bought 2 Atari Volcano buttons for P1 and P2 Start and I have the pot from the Amazon speakers I can connect for the volume knob. With 18" to play with, I might be able to fit in a spinner of 2.5" trackball, which would expand the gamelist, but I do not want it to look cluttered or confusing. I'm willing to sacrifice the number of playable games for aesthetic reasons. First and foremost I want this to look like it could go in any room in the house.
Post by: javeryh on July 25, 2020, 03:31:52 pm
Anyway, I think this looks pretty good now. I like to iterate a lot until I get something I like and it helps me to see all of the steps. I'm finally ready to install the monitor... when it gets here!
:cheers:
Post by: yamatetsu on July 25, 2020, 03:52:15 pm
OK... this is final, I think. I couldn't get the yellow/black borders to all line up because I'm piecing this together from a bunch of different .png files and don't really know what I'm doing.
Why multiple .pngs? Can't you just make 1 pic that has both boxes and a transparent background?
Snall niggle: I would shorten the lines to
Move joystick up or down to select a game
Press ONE PLAYER START to start the
The 'from the menu' part is redundant because it's fairly obvious that you will select the game that is highlighted in the menu. It's also pretty obvious that pressing 1P start will start the selected game and not some random game.
Post by: Jimbo on July 25, 2020, 04:14:26 pm
Similarly, on the right half, an image of the start button and the words "play game" or "play selected" to the right of it.
[ pic ] browse games [ pic ] play game
bigger icons and less text is clearer and less wordy/messy imo.
Post by: javeryh on July 25, 2020, 04:42:49 pm
Why multiple .pngs? Can't you just make 1 pic that has both boxes and a transparent background?
You vastly overestimate my computer skills haha. My problem is that I do not know how to work on one area. The background image is about 10x the size of what you are seeing. The black stripes go off the screen in all directions by a lot. Ideally, the whole thing would just be a background (one .png file) the exact size I need with the wheel and video window laid over the top but you are looking at 4 .png files mashed together. I spent way too much time aligning the black bar under the text with the smaller black bar to the right of the wheel to make it look like one continuous stripe.
Snall niggle: I would shorten the lines to
Move joystick up or down to select a gamefrom the menu
Press ONE PLAYER START to start theselectedgame
The 'from the menu' part is redundant because it's fairly obvious that you will select the game that is highlighted in the menu. It's also pretty obvious that pressing 1P start will start the selected game and not some random game.
I like this suggestion. Simple = better. Let me see what I can do... it's not as easy as retyping it - I have to completely redo that .png. It's not hard though.
:cheers:
Post by: javeryh on July 25, 2020, 05:00:24 pm
I reckon you can make the image of the joystick larger, put up/down arrows on it, and make it say "browse games" to the right of it.
Similarly, on the right half, an image of the start button and the words "play game" or "play selected" to the right of it.
[ pic ] browse games [ pic ] play game
bigger icons and less text is clearer and less wordy/messy imo.
I don't think I am going to use icons in the instructions because I don't really have a way to make it look nice. Hyperspin has some default animations for that but after playing with it for a while I turned all of it off. Someone who knows what they are doing can really go crazy with the design if they want. You can even customize all this stuff on a per emulator (or even per game) basis if you want!
I made the changes yamatetsu suggested and I think it reads better - I was also able to slightly increase the font size from 20 to 22 to make it more legible.
Post by: Jimbo on July 25, 2020, 05:41:41 pm
I mean practically everyone will try to move the joystick and figure out immediately that it scrolls through games.
Then configure it so that *any* button (start or fire, etc) starts the game.
It'll sure make the interface cleaner. Are instructions really necessary?
Post by: yamatetsu on July 25, 2020, 05:44:27 pm
The background image is about 10x the size of what you are seeing. The black stripes go off the screen in all directions by a lot. Ideally, the whole thing would just be a background (one .png file) the exact size I need with the wheel and video window laid over the top but you are looking at 4 .png files mashed together.
Hm, that shouldn't be hard to do. Can you post the 4 pngs and the resolution of the background picture? Using CorelDraw I can make a rectangle of that size, put the woodgrain pic inside and slap the boxes and the menustripe on.
Post by: javeryh on July 26, 2020, 04:16:33 pm
On the flip side - have you considered not having any instructions?
I mean practically everyone will try to move the joystick and figure out immediately that it scrolls through games.
Then configure it so that *any* button (start or fire, etc) starts the game.
It'll sure make the interface cleaner. Are instructions really necessary?
I thought about it... and one of my mock-ups did not have instructions but I think I want something even though it means a little more clutter on the screen. Almost all old arcade games had similar instructions somewhere so I don't think it goes against what I'm trying to do. I may change my mind before it is all said and done.
I do like the idea of pressing "any button" to start... I'll almost certainly try and configure it to work like that. Not sure if I should change the instructions though.
Hm, that shouldn't be hard to do. Can you post the 4 pngs and the resolution of the background picture? Using CorelDraw I can make a rectangle of that size, put the woodgrain pic inside and slap the boxes and the menustripe on.
The files I used are attached... the monitor I'm getting is 1024x768 resolution so the background should be at least that I guess. It works as is right now so no worries if you can't get it - I have no idea how you would even position the stripes unless you were using HyperTheme and could see exactly where the wheel and video box goes.
Post by: javeryh on July 26, 2020, 05:00:36 pm
I'm leaning towards my control panel being black and white only (white ball top and white buttons) to thematically match an Asteroids cabaret. So to that end, I changed the yellow to white in the front end to match. I could go either way here. I liked the yellow border and text in the last version too.
I just downloaded Hypermarquee and EDS - this is the last huge hurdle for me on the software side (besides configuring the controls and getting it to launch on boot). Monitor arrives tomorrow so I'm hoping to make good progress this week.
Post by: Arroyo on July 26, 2020, 11:40:40 pm
Post by: yamatetsu on July 27, 2020, 10:46:15 am
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=383991;image)
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=383992;image)
Post by: javeryh on July 27, 2020, 08:25:30 pm
Hope that these fit. Can't do the white version because I don't have the white text and also not the font.
This worked! Thank you! Is CorelDraw hard to use? Seems like it would be much easier to tweak one background image than messing about with all the different components...
Post by: yamatetsu on July 28, 2020, 08:02:48 am
Is CorelDraw hard to use? Seems like it would be much easier to tweak one background image than messing about with all the different components...
Yep, using CorelDraw to move things around on one image is definitely easier. Is CorelDraw hard to use? Hard to say. It's a complex program (in fact, it's a package of several programs) that has many functions, so learning to use it from scratch will probably take some time. It's like learning Photoshop from scratch, though some Photoshop users think that doing some things in CorelDraw is a bit more complicated than doing it in Photoshop.
CorelDraw simply is the only graphics program that I (barely) know how to use. I'm a beginner at best. There are tons of helpful videos on YT and websites/forums, so I can look up things that I don't know how to do.
I use it because
- you can do lifesized images. When I built my cabs, I could create the sides, marquee, CP, ect. in the size the boards would later be. This allowed me to put the sideart on to see how that will look like, position the buttons and the joysticks on the CP, put the graphic onto the marquee, see how that will look like, etc.
- it's object-oriented. Everything you create is an object that can be moved around, resized, manipulated in many ways. Way better than say, creating a rectangle which, after you are done, becomes a part of the image, never to be changed again.
- it's vector-based, so you can resize vector-objects without any loss of quality.
- Objects can 'snap' to other objects and guidelines. If you want to align to objects, you just move one object close to the other until they snap together. You can also use guidelines, which are a kind of 'helpline'. To make my pics I used yours as a reference by putting yours exactly above mine. To align both pics I simply moved a guideline to the left edge of your pic, then dragged my pic close to yours until it snapped to the guideline. To create the big black box, I put guidelines on the left and on the right side of the box. The guidelines go across the entire workspace, so creating the black box in my pic was just a matter of making a rectangle that fit between the guidelines.
- text is resizable. Just put the text where it needs to be and drag on it until you have the proper size.
- you can use it as a simple CAD program. This is the design for my second cab:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=149895.0;attach=348578)
And this is how it turned out:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=149895.0;attach=350711)
So, CorelDraw is quite useful.
You can download a free trial version if you want to tinker with it.
Post by: javeryh on July 28, 2020, 01:35:13 pm
I spent the better part of the last 24 hours trying to integrate Hyper Marquee into my HyperSpin setup and I finally have it working (I think). When HyperSpin launches, the marquee window pops open and loads an image. The wrong images but still - it works. Now I have to painstakingly go through my images folder to rename all of the marquee art to match the exact name of the ROM associated with it. Right now the names are a mess so it mostly defaults to the wheel art and looks pretty bad. I cannot believe I have gotten this far though so I'll take it!
One thing I'm a little concerned about is MOVING my HyperSpin setup to another external drive and having it all work. Right now everything is set up on an external HDD (my E:\ drive) and I want to move everything to either this computer's C:\ drive or another E:\ drive (100GB?) because the one I'm using is 4TB and has almost all of my other media on it. But I know a copy and paste job will screw up all of the assigned paths in HyperSpin, EDS, Hyper Marquee, Rocker Launcher, etc... I'm hoping if I get another external drive and name it E:\ I can copy my Hyperspin folder to my desktop and then over to the new E:\ drive and it will just work.
Next up is mounting the CRT monitor inside of the cabinet. I need to cut a panel to fit and then cut out the center for the screen (but not remove too much material so that the corner bolts won't have anything to screw into. My plan is to just install 2 rails along the inside and then rest the monitor panel on them (screwed in place). Getting closer!
Post by: Arroyo on July 28, 2020, 01:41:24 pm
Post by: javeryh on July 28, 2020, 01:52:08 pm
There are programs to do mass renaming on the Hyperspin Forum. If I can get to my computer today and dig up the one you want it will make life a lot easier....although for some reason I recalled the names being correct for Mame games as the naming convention is standardized. It’s the consoles where it was a free for all and is a real pain...
Thanks. That would help but I'm still going to have a rough time because I ended up making a ton of marquees myself because the ones I was finding online were not a high enough resolution. Some of them worked just fine but I spent a lot of time googling the marquees I wanted and I didn't really think much about the file names. Launchbox doesn't care about that - you just drag the image to the ROM metadata window and it gets associated. HyperSpin definitely cares about file names. I only have 100 or so images to rename so not terrible for now at least. Maybe I just didn't know where to look for a comprehensive folder of high resolution marquees?
Post by: firedance on July 28, 2020, 02:08:57 pm
https://hyperspin-fe.com/files/file/7401-fat-match-media-renamer/
Post by: jennifer on July 28, 2020, 02:41:47 pm
Post by: javeryh on July 29, 2020, 03:48:19 pm
fatmatch should rename files easily, have used it to rename pics/videos, its supposed to be for matching rom to images etc but should work, best to make a copy of the images before trying to match them, might not be what you're after but worth keeping for future use
https://hyperspin-fe.com/files/file/7401-fat-match-media-renamer/
Thanks- this looks useful. There’s so much great software out there that people have made just for this hobby. I’ll check it out.
That "You suck at Photoshop" guy over on utubes is how Jenn learned that...It seems really hard at first, but then you just cross a line one afternoon and it makes sense...And becomes really fun!
I am definitely going to watch this channel. Any tips would be great because I don’t k ow how to do anything. I can’t use layers. I can’t draw to scale. Nothing!
This week has been busy with work but I did just take 20 minutes to make sure the CRT is working. It looks great!
https://youtu.be/1No5O0kFU1I
The scan lines aren’t even that bad right out of the box. I have to play with the settings and picture location once I get it in the cabinet but it works.
Post by: javeryh on July 30, 2020, 12:31:38 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200730/4eae0c10b6b7c34771e99ac14343a700.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200730/8e46f20b4ad8cc041141717e96235bea.jpg)
If I slide the metal casing out of the plastic I don’t think there will be any support.
Maybe I should post on the monitor forum too...
Post by: jdbailey1206 on July 30, 2020, 03:45:18 pm
Post by: javeryh on July 30, 2020, 04:03:02 pm
Javeryh can you create a support like the Star Wars arcade has where the monitor rests in the support and the support is screwed to the cab?
I don't know... I'd need to see a picture.
My original plan was to make a frame around the monitor attached to the 4 corner brackets. This would then slide in and rest on top of 2 rails on the inside of the cabinet. It seemed like it was going to be simple!
Like this:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=149895.0;attach=354219;image)
But I can't seem to be able to remove the front bezel on my monitor without damaging things...
Post by: jdbailey1206 on July 31, 2020, 08:05:29 am
Like this:
Yes. Now I get it. I misread your previous post. Its not the mounting that will get you its the disassembly. And the picture you posted was what I was talking about. It seems the guys in Monitor/Video have a good idea on how to do it. I would even recommend having someone help you de-case it. ie one person holds while the other pulls.
Post by: javeryh on July 31, 2020, 05:04:04 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200731/daefb45b5873bb9c7566572bce7a23df.jpg)
Testing the location for the rails. This was kind of a pain to make exactly parallel to the control panel. I ended up making a jig out of cardboard for the offset.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200731/dcf69eb02b0b8ae2902e1afc04efb3bb.jpg)
Shelf and monitor case in place. I have to cut the shelf and screw/glue everything together.
Here’s a view from the front.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200731/c6210384465a19c252c755d7b358c179.jpg)
I think it’s in a good spot but I can’t really tell just yet. Feels like I’m a little less precise than I want to be but this is probably one of those things no one will notice once it is finished.
Post by: jennifer on July 31, 2020, 06:57:19 pm
Post by: javeryh on July 31, 2020, 07:53:11 pm
Dude relax, drink a creme soda or something and think about this...That is going to get hot and shorten the life of the caps...It comes apart, Just mount the pieces on that wood shelf.
I've been staring at it for 2 full days. I cannot take it apart myself. I took the case off at least 10 times trying to figure it out. Not only will I have to unplug a bunch of stuff from the circuit board, I will have to take off the suction cup and also pull off the square thing from the back of the neck. I'm not comfortable doing either. Also, none of the wires are long enough to mount the circuit board away from the exact location it is in relative to the tube right now. Maybe if I had some help I could figure it out but it doesn't look like I'm going to have any interaction with friends until 2021.
I'm not happy about it but it is what it is. I probably should have tried getting an arcade monitor with the mounting brackets already holding things together.
:dunno
Post by: jennifer on July 31, 2020, 08:07:08 pm
Post by: jennifer on July 31, 2020, 08:13:36 pm
Post by: leapinlew on July 31, 2020, 11:44:34 pm
When I use a crt, I usually just create a bezel from construction paper and leave the monitor in its case. Sometimes it’s just not worth the effort. Only you can decide if it’s worth the work.
Post by: Zebidee on August 01, 2020, 12:07:56 am
I've been to where you are, then taken the plunge and jumped in.
Just think of it as an arcade monitor, or think of your cab as a new case.
Take lots of photos, especially before you go unplugging things. That way you'll know how to put it back!
CRT will be more secure if you can move that wooden bracket behind the corner pegs, so that CRT sits on top instead of hanging down.
Post by: jennifer on August 01, 2020, 03:49:48 am
Post by: javeryh on August 01, 2020, 12:16:23 pm
I bought some alligator clips while I was at Home Depot getting some screws just in case I want to try. I have a big screwdriver I never use with a plastic handle that I can sacrifice for the discharge tool... I don't know! I've wanted to learn this stuff for a while but I am also an idiot...
Post by: javeryh on August 01, 2020, 01:12:20 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200801/54fdcce3881bd9a17a892e344cef2e90.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200801/d94a5eadf2805f876eef69d4b5524380.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200801/b8fd54620be8c2bd6422db1e5726f29d.jpg)
Alligator clip to chassis, rubber soles, rubber gloves, other hand in pocket and go? Sound right?
Post by: Arroyo on August 01, 2020, 01:18:28 pm
Does this look right?
Alligator clip to chassis, rubber soles, rubber gloves, other hand in pocket and go? Sound right?
Yup. You can attach the alligator clip to the metal frame, or even better is the aquadag spring (metal spring surrounding the tube).
Most of the time I hear a small snap, although not always. Particularly if it was plugged into the wall recently. Once you do it a couple of times it’s no big deal. Just come back to it a bit later like Mike said and do it again for good measure as the tube can retain a charge.
Post by: javeryh on August 01, 2020, 01:30:34 pm
OK thanks... I’m not sure why I’m so irrationally nervous about this. It has been unplugged from the wall for at least 3 full days but I know it can still retain a charge.Does this look right?
Alligator clip to chassis, rubber soles, rubber gloves, other hand in pocket and go? Sound right?
Yup. You can attach the alligator clip to the metal frame, or even better is the aquadag spring (metal spring surrounding the tube).
Most of the time I hear a small snap, although not always. Particularly if it was plugged into the wall recently. Once you do it a couple of times it’s no big deal. Just come back to it a bit later like Mike said and do it again for good measure as the tube can retain a charge.
I still don’t know how I’m going to separate the board from the tube - so many wires - but at least if it is discharged I will feel better about messing around. I also think I might be able to take the front bezel off and support the chassis with some blocks while I trace the outline of the tube and then mount it all without disassembling anything....
Post by: jennifer on August 01, 2020, 01:43:30 pm
Post by: leapinlew on August 01, 2020, 01:52:12 pm
This is one of those things that doesn't really bother me. I've been able to hide the arcade monitor bezel and keep the monitor in tact. It just depends how you do it, and what your comfort level is. My current arcades are a mix of decased and still in their factory cases monitors.
This is my defender with a LCD, clear plexi and the default factory case:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=384029;image)
In this case, I used construction paper that I spray painted black and cut into strips. I attached those strips to the monitor case before mounting to the TV. It looks very close to factory.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=384031;image)
This is a LCD behind dark plexi. If you plan on using smoked plexi, you really are wasting a lot of time right now for something no one will see.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=384034;image)
Galaga cabinet using an arcade monitor and factory bezel behind clear glass. This is perfect authenticity and if the question is if it presents better than the LCD behind clear plexi with construction paper bezel, I'd say the answer is no. No one, including myself, notices.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=384033;image)
This is a star wars, using a CRT behind smoked glass. You can't see anything behind the glass until the game is turned on. I used a construction paper bezel, but you are unable to see it. Next time I have access to the controls, I'm going to reduce the brightness of the monitor to reduce the light bleed, but it's nowhere near as obvious when you are playing the game.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=384032;image)
To me, if you are going to use clear glass or plexi, you can maybe justify all the work to decase the monitor, but if it's behind smoked plexi or tinted glass, you are doing a lot of work for nothing. I know you definitely aren't afraid of doing a lot of work, but wanted to give you some reasoning for why I think decasing is usually more work than it's worth.
Good luck.
Post by: javeryh on August 01, 2020, 01:58:35 pm
Literally nothing happened. I jammed the screwdriver under the cup from every angle and was definitely touching something in the middle and I didn’t hear any snap or pop or anything at all... I almost wish something had happened so I would know that it worked!
I assume it’s discharged... I’ll do it again in 20 minutes to be sure. First I’m going to try making the frame without taking it apart but if that fails I’ll suck it up and start disassembling it.
Post by: Arroyo on August 01, 2020, 02:01:05 pm
Post by: javeryh on August 01, 2020, 02:03:08 pm
You'll be shocked how easy it is! :D
Yeah. I feel silly now.
To me, if you are going to use clear glass or plexi, you can maybe justify all the work to decase the monitor, but if it's behind smoked plexi or tinted glass, you are doing a lot of work for nothing. I know you definitely aren't afraid of doing a lot of work, but wanted to give you some reasoning for why I think decasing is usually more work than it's worth.
Good luck.
Thanks lew. The pics really help. The plan all along was smoked tempered glass over the screen so you are probably right that no one will notice. Part of me just wants to tackle this just because. Jen did mention overheating was a concern because I'll have a box inside a box. I did cut some holes in the back panel for venting air but I am not planning on installing any fans to push air around...
Post by: leapinlew on August 01, 2020, 02:03:24 pm
Well that was a bust... it exploded and I’m bleeding out...
Literally nothing happened. I jammed the screwdriver under the cup from every angle and was definitely touching something in the middle and I didn’t hear any snap or pop or anything at all... I almost wish something had happened so I would know that it worked!
I assume it’s discharged... I’ll do it again in 20 minutes to be sure. First I’m going to try making the frame without taking it apart but if that fails I’ll suck it up and start disassembling it.
LoL - that happened with the first one I did. I really wanted the snap, or perhaps even a loud pop. Over the years I've heard so many stories about discharging the monitor that I was sure I'd have a story of my own. In the end, I wasn't sure if it was discharged, or I did something wrong.
Post by: jennifer on August 01, 2020, 02:03:54 pm
Post by: leapinlew on August 01, 2020, 02:05:20 pm
You'll be shocked how easy it is! :D
Yeah. I feel silly now.To me, if you are going to use clear glass or plexi, you can maybe justify all the work to decase the monitor, but if it's behind smoked plexi or tinted glass, you are doing a lot of work for nothing. I know you definitely aren't afraid of doing a lot of work, but wanted to give you some reasoning for why I think decasing is usually more work than it's worth.
Good luck.
Thanks lew. The pics really help. The plan all along was smoked tempered glass over the screen so you are probably right that no one will notice. Part of me just wants to tackle this just because. Jen did mention overheating was a concern because I'll have a box inside a box. I did cut some holes in the back panel for venting air but I am not planning on installing any fans to push air around...
Right on.
Enjoying watching the progress. Keep it up!
Post by: Zebidee on August 01, 2020, 02:09:03 pm
Post by: jennifer on August 01, 2020, 02:12:31 pm
Post by: javeryh on August 01, 2020, 02:17:02 pm
No...Take it apart, you dont want any undo stress on that neck, or it will break, gently wiggle the socket off, It only goes back on one way since it is keyed...Good job, man, the hard scary part is over!
OK. I've got some tape out so I can start labeling things... What do I do about wires that cannot be separated? The PCB on the neck has a ton of wires coming out of it that goes to the circuit board and they are glued on (no connectors). So the neck PCB will never fully separate from the other circuit board.
Post by: Zebidee on August 01, 2020, 02:18:29 pm
So the neck PCB will never fully separate from the other circuit board.
Shouldn't be a problem
Post by: Zebidee on August 01, 2020, 02:20:13 pm
You just need to gently wiggle the neckboard off the CRT and keep it with the main chassis
Post by: Zebidee on August 01, 2020, 02:21:37 pm
Post by: javeryh on August 01, 2020, 02:25:34 pm
There is probably a ground wire from CRT grounding strap to the neck board. Hopefully you can disconnect that one easily
Doing that now... only screw I've encountered so far. The neck board was not easy to remove - I wiggled it back and forth gently to pop it off. I hope it goes back on easier!
Post by: javeryh on August 01, 2020, 02:54:29 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200801/8993f6f7b61961c8f42372d611ac26b1.jpg)
I actually had the toughest time removing the controls connector. I hope I didn’t damage it. Now I’ll see if I can mount the tube in an MDF panel and put it all back together. Yikes.
Post by: Arroyo on August 01, 2020, 02:55:17 pm
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Zebidee on August 01, 2020, 03:05:12 pm
Post by: javeryh on August 01, 2020, 03:09:21 pm
At a boy!So... how the heck do I cut the opening in the MDF dead center???
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Zebidee on August 01, 2020, 03:12:13 pm
This is what I mean about mounting crt on top of that wooden bracket
Post by: javeryh on August 01, 2020, 03:29:24 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200801/105053bd8efed1184dc95f38c17f8631.jpg)
This is what I mean about mounting crt on top of that wooden bracket
That's what I'm trying to do... how do you cut the hole accurately?
Post by: jennifer on August 01, 2020, 03:30:34 pm
Post by: Zebidee on August 01, 2020, 03:32:21 pm
That's what I'm trying to do... how do you cut the hole accurately?
I've bypassed the whole hole problem. Look closer and you'll see that I have separated the bracket into two pieces, top and bottom. I'll find a photo in a minute and show you how I did them separately...
Post by: Zebidee on August 01, 2020, 03:40:19 pm
So two pieces like this and you can just slide them up or down to suit
Post by: Zebidee on August 01, 2020, 03:42:48 pm
Use T-nuts like this to secure the corner pegs
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Zebidee on August 01, 2020, 03:45:37 pm
Goes in like this with appropriate bolt. You can push the t-nut into the hole and tighten the bolt to pull it in.
You'll need to use some washers as well (as shown) to make sure it grabs the CRT securely.
Post by: Zebidee on August 01, 2020, 03:49:32 pm
Context - Aussie lowboy I have been working on, but by bit, for a while now
Post by: Zebidee on August 01, 2020, 03:55:06 pm
Post by: Jimbo on August 01, 2020, 04:13:05 pm
So... how the heck do I cut the opening in the MDF dead center???
I've just done one with 18mm ply. Just a case of measuring and cutting. I measured the frame of the monitor to get the hole dimensions, drilled a large hole in each corner for my jigsaw blade to pop through, then used the jigsaw to cut the hole out. If you measure well enough you can get it right first time. Err on the side of the hole being too tight because you can always cut it bigger with the jigsaw and you don't want it too loose.
Well done on disassembling the monitor! :applaud: You've definitely done the hard part. Hope you took loads of photos to remind yourself how it connects back together! :)
Post by: javeryh on August 01, 2020, 05:09:18 pm
I've bypassed the whole hole problem. Look closer and you'll see that I have separated the bracket into two pieces, top and bottom. I'll find a photo in a minute and show you how I did them separately...
Genius. This seems so simple that it should be stickied somewhere.
Cardboard template gets the shape right. Cut tabs all the way around it and cut them off to fit, then refine it with masking tape...that neck board will push on easier then it came off, just make sure the pins are lined up with the holes.
Oh man... I just started cutting with the jigsaw and removing little pieces a mm at a time wherever I thought I needed more room. Cardboard template would have saved me loads of time. Told you I was an idiot!
I got the tube attached to the panel. It's centered enough I think. Less than 1/16" off in some spots. The hole I cut is a total hack job. I left it long because now I need to attach another panel 90 degrees from this one for the circuit board to attach to. Once I figure out where that goes, I can remove the excess length.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200801/df7a0859d6b016c356a653a63302cb79.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200801/050d4587aed71f3d7efe80b8e62e1343.jpg)
I’m using 1-1/4” bolts with washers on both sides to secure everything. I think I’m going to do the cardboard template for when I cut the black matte board for around the monitor under the glass.
Post by: Zebidee on August 01, 2020, 05:39:33 pm
Your method of hacking it out until it fit is exactly what I used to do. I now use top/bottom brackets, but I still don't need to use a cardboard template.
Referencing my photos above with 2 brackets for top/bottom - you make them as wide (longest side) as the inside width of your cab; you make the left & right sides about 10cm/4 inches; you bring it in at least 2cm to account for the support wood you use underneath; then cut back at approx 45 degrees *as appropriate for your CRT pegs*. The long/narrow parts at top/bottom should be at least 5cm or 2 inches.
This is really the easiest way to do it.
The only tricky measurement to take is the distance between your CRT pegs (measure centre-to-centre). Once you have that, position/centre your ruler and mark the 45 degree cut so that it leaves about 6mm (~1/4 inch) spare after you cut your hole for the T-nut.
You'll need to secure that degaussing coil back around the back/outside of the CRT, otherwise it won't work properly. Suggest that you use cable ties as necessary.
Post by: javeryh on August 01, 2020, 05:42:44 pm
@javeryh That looks brilliant!
Your method of hacking it out until it fit is exactly what I used to do. I now use top/bottom brackets, but I still don't need to use a cardboard template.
Referencing my photos above with 2 brackets for top/bottom - you make them as wide (longest side) as the inside width of your cab; you make the left & right sides about 10cm/4 inches; you bring it in at least 2cm to account for the support wood you use underneath; then cut back at approx 45 degrees *as appropriate for your CRT pegs*. The long/narrow parts at top/bottom should be at least 5cm or 2 inches.
This is really the easiest way to do it.
The only tricky measurement to take is the distance between your CRT pegs (measure centre-to-centre). Once you have that, position/centre your ruler and mark the 45 degree cut so that it leaves about 6mm (~1/4 inch) spare after you cut your hole for the T-nut.
You'll need to secure that degaussing coil back around the back/outside of the CRT, otherwise it won't work properly. Suggest that you use cable ties as necessary.
Thanks. You method is so much better though! So that thick black wire actually needs to be positioned properly? Do I need to keep anything in mind or do I just need it to somewhat follow the outside of the tube? So many things I don't know.
And yup I did it upside down.... thank jeebus I flipped it and everything lined up. Now I'm trying to mount the circuit board... not easy. The metal housing does not come off so I have to position it pretty much in the same spot it was before disassembly. I'm cutting the shelf now which I will install at a 90 degree angle using some 3/4" blocking to reinforce the joint. I'll probably also have to add diagonal stretchers so that there is additional support for this thing.
I think I'm having fun? This is going to take the rest of the evening and most of tomorrow to set up. But then I will be in the home stretch... assuming the monitor still works when I connect everything...
Post by: Zebidee on August 01, 2020, 06:34:02 pm
Thanks. You method is so much better though! So that thick black wire actually needs to be positioned properly? Do I need to keep anything in mind or do I just need it to somewhat follow the outside of the tube? So many things I don't know.
The degaussing coil needs to be correctly placed around the perimeter of the CRT - as close as possible to how it originally was.
And yup I did it upside down.... thank jeebus I flipped it and everything lined up.
The way you did it in that pic looks right to me! Ultimately, when installed, you want the CRT to sit on top of the brackets, so it sits "down" on them and gravity helps keep it in place. Use "blocking" pieces cut from scrap wood (installed at the angle you want your monitor at) to keep the brackets in right place. Have another close look at the pic I showed before. You can see that I haven't even bothered to screw the CRT down! WTF!!!! The CRT is literally just sitting there, on the bolts, with nothing but gravity to keep it in. (the bolts in backwards, with no nut on top.)
I secured the CRT better after taking that photo (second photo, turned bolts around, added washers). In those photos, you can also see the blocking pieces for the front protective glass (at same angle as monitor blocking pieces). You'll need to add them AFTER you put the monitor in (otherwise you can't get the CRT past them).
Now I'm trying to mount the circuit board... not easy. The metal housing does not come off so I have to position it pretty much in the same spot it was before disassembly. I'm cutting the shelf now which I will install at a 90 degree angle using some 3/4" blocking to reinforce the joint. I'll probably also have to add diagonal stretchers so that there is additional support for this thing.
Simply do the best you can to remove/reposition pieces - will be easier if you can screw chassis to side, but just do what you have to.
Post by: jennifer on August 01, 2020, 07:15:59 pm
Post by: javeryh on August 01, 2020, 07:29:28 pm
The degaussing coil needs to be correctly placed around the perimeter of the CRT - as close as possible to how it originally was.
Uh oh... not sure that's possible. It would need to go through the MDF panel - it was nestled in the very top of the original monitor casing towards the front. I can place it around the edge of the monitor behind the MDF but nowhere else really. What is the effect if it isn't exactly in the right place?
The way you did it in that pic looks right to me! Ultimately, when installed, you want the CRT to sit on top of the brackets, so it sits "down" on them and gravity helps keep it in place. Use "blocking" pieces cut from scrap wood (installed at the angle you want your monitor at) to keep the brackets in right place. Have another close look at the pic I showed before. You can see that I haven't even bothered to screw the CRT down! WTF!!!! The CRT is literally just sitting there, on the bolts, with nothing but gravity to keep it in. (the bolts in backwards, with no nut on top.)
I secured the CRT better after taking that photo (second photo, turned bolts around, added washers). In those photos, you can also see the blocking pieces for the front protective glass (at same angle as monitor blocking pieces). You'll need to add them AFTER you put the monitor in (otherwise you can't get the CRT past them).
I have the MDF behind the brackets... I meant that if I was to install it the screen would have been upsidedown. I left the bottom of the panel long because I didn't know how much I'd need in order to secure the circuit board.
Simply do the best you can to remove/reposition pieces - will be easier if you can screw chassis to side, but just do what you have to.
None of the wires are even close to long enough. It literally has to go in the exact position it was in before I took it apart so right underneath the screen. I'm going to try and do this to it:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=137295.0;attach=303532;image)
I have to do the exact same thing based on the guts.
Post by: Zebidee on August 01, 2020, 08:32:06 pm
Omg thats going to be nice, Getting a little jelious over here...You should just finish that out with a nice piece of safety glass with the marqee enamel painted on the backside,... Plexy just looks cheap and unimaginative.
Aww shucks jenn. Hoping to work on it a bit more soon.
I made sure to leave a comfy 1-2mm wiggle room for a cardboard/whatever bezel to slip underneath 6mm safety glass! No way I'd use plexi there :D
Quote from: javeryh
Uh oh... not sure that's possible. It would need to go through the MDF panel - it was nestled in the very top of the original monitor casing towards the front. I can place it around the edge of the monitor behind the MDF but nowhere else really. What is the effect if it isn't exactly in the right place?
Coil position doesn't have to be "exact", but yes close as possible. You may need to trim your wooden CRT bracket out a little so it can fit (rasp, jigsaw!).
I think something like that latest photo of yours, with a whole wooden frame, should do the trick to support the chassis (but sit CRT on top of wood if possible - I'll stop mentioning this now and grab a nap instead!).
Great project javeryh, enjoying your progress 8)
Post by: javeryh on August 02, 2020, 08:44:25 am
Coil position doesn't have to be "exact", but yes close as possible. You may need to trim your wooden CRT bracket out a little so it can fit (rasp, jigsaw!).
I think something like that latest photo of yours, with a whole wooden frame, should do the trick to support the chassis (but sit CRT on top of wood if possible - I'll stop mentioning this now and grab a nap instead!).
Great project javeryh, enjoying your progress 8)
I totally understand why the CRT should sit on top of the wood frame... but putting it behind and letting all the weight fall to the bolts and washers would let me get that thick degaussing wire a lot closer to its original position.
I’m really concerned now that I’ll get it all set up and turn on the monitor and the picture will be a wavy mess. The wire wasn’t precisely placed to begin with - it didn’t hug the tube or anything- so hopefully close is good enough. It was also held in place by notches in the plastic bezel... which is obviously not available anymore.
Post by: Arroyo on August 02, 2020, 08:49:52 am
I wouldn’t worry about it too much. If after getting it setup and turned on its exhibiting those issues, you could route out some of the material around the back side of the wood close to the tube to allow it to be placed closer.
Good work buddy, keep it up!
Post by: bperkins01 on August 02, 2020, 08:52:53 am
Post by: javeryh on August 02, 2020, 09:31:29 am
It won’t be a wavy mess. The degaussing coil is used to demagnetize the shadow mask (swiss cheese grater looking metal sheet that has holes in it to control where the beams hit the phosphor). It helps to prevent discoloration that can show up, which typically happens in the corners.
I wouldn’t worry about it too much. If after getting it setup and turned on its exhibiting those issues, you could route out some of the material around the back side of the wood close to the tube to allow it to be placed closer.
Good work buddy, keep it up!
Thanks Arroyo - this is reassuring. I'm glad I'm doing this even if it ends up not working because I really want to learn about it. Not knowing how these things work is making it difficult to make decisions.
Do you think the extra 1/2" is worth it?
- I could mount the monitor behind the MDF panel putting all of the weight on the corner bolts which will give me an extra 1/2" for the degaussing wire to be closer to its original position; or
- I could keep it as is and mount the monitor in front of the MDF panel allowing the corner brackets attached to the tube to bear most of the weight. I'd lose the 1/2" of space in this scenario but the mount would be sturdier.
The degaussing coil only activates when the monitor is powered on for a few seconds.. All it does is makes a big magnetic field to "clean up" some stray magnetism.. It then shuts off. Put it close to where it was and call it a day.. Its not a precision device.. its a loop of wire..
Man I hope this is all there is to it and close is more than good enough. I will find out this afternoon. I am headed to the basement to keep working on it now. I need to assemble the shelf for the chassis, install 2 stretchers at a 45 degree angle for additional support and then trim the overhang of the face panel. Shouldn't take too long and then I can reassemble the monitor, hold my breath and fire it up!
Just want to say thanks to everyone who has chimed in and helped me out with this process - I was ready to scrap it but now I'm happy I didn't no matter the result (worst case scenario is I have to buy another monitor). :cheers:
Post by: Arroyo on August 02, 2020, 09:56:01 am
Post by: javeryh on August 02, 2020, 10:19:25 am
Here’s why I wouldn’t worry about it. Degaussing isn’t needed that often. As a last resort you can buy an external degaussing wand that if the colors were to get off, and you can’t get the coil close enough to the front, you can use it as an alternative just fine. You won’t need it every time it turns on, just the rarer occasion if it were to get off.
OK... so I'm leaving it as is and will use the corner brackets for support. The coil will be kind of close but not exact. Now let's see if I can get this thing installed!
Post by: Zebidee on August 02, 2020, 11:16:22 am
Post by: javeryh on August 02, 2020, 12:13:18 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200802/6c5cab2547bdd70e3cc2ee85c57b69a9.jpg)
I’m not sure how to secure it in place - the metal casing doesn’t really have anywhere to screw into and I’m afraid Velcro or something will give out over time.
I’ve seen people use PCB feet for the boards but I don’t think I can do that here because my PCB needs to stay inside if the metal casing (there are tons of wires that attach directly to it for ground I assume). Also, the VGA cable is supported by the metal case and if I took that out it would put a lot of pressure on the neck board due to its weight.
Any ideas how to secure the chassis?
Post by: Arroyo on August 02, 2020, 12:21:01 pm
Post by: Zebidee on August 02, 2020, 12:24:25 pm
Post by: Zebidee on August 02, 2020, 12:25:22 pm
Post by: jennifer on August 02, 2020, 12:26:30 pm
Post by: jennifer on August 02, 2020, 12:33:00 pm
Post by: jennifer on August 02, 2020, 12:43:48 pm
Post by: jennifer on August 02, 2020, 01:06:36 pm
Post by: javeryh on August 02, 2020, 01:08:58 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200802/df07702fc31f988a2090d2dcf0408a5c.jpg)
I will definitely use your collective “blocking” idea to keep it from moving and I guess I’m going to drill some holes in the shelf for zip ties just so it won’t move around- otherwise there’s nothing actually securing it in place.
I also realized I need to drill a hole in the front so that the monitor’s control board and power switch will be accessible.
The coil is going to be what it is. Not a lot I can do to position it. Hopefully it won’t matter.
Post by: javeryh on August 02, 2020, 04:02:57 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200802/f4c45ebf8ecfc48d358fc37fc79177c8.jpg)
I can’t get an exact measurement of the distance from the center of the glass to the panel (how far it sticks up) but I think that will leave me with enough room and if the monitor sits 1” lower than ideal so what, right?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200802/ace8962c191abbdbe36b80e05998b463.jpg)
I tried getting a level and measuring but best I could do was ballpark it. The carpet adds some thickness and I don’t want to scratch it if I lay it on the table and start moving it around.
Next hour or two will be mounting the monitor and reassembling everything. Final step will be to add the blocking so things stay in place.
Post by: javeryh on August 02, 2020, 07:16:38 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200802/3f4631e7e0ceabdee1e32cb13e36138e.jpg)
The blocking keeps everything tight so there’s almost no wiggle room... does the wood present any kind of fire hazard? I assume not because that would mean the MDF would be a fire hazard too and I’ve never seen it mentioned.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200802/4c23d7b25cbca503b365a1e4ce12ff5a.jpg)
I hope I can lift this in place. I hope it works. I hope the mount holds. I could not add diagonal stretchers like I wanted because of space considerations. I thought about using a cable but I’ll only do that if things seem shaky.
I didn’t glue anything so I can take it all apart if need be but truth be told if I broke something I’m just going to use a shelf for the replacement monitor.
My work space is also my work space - my desk - so I need to get this out if the way for tomorrow morning... here goes nothing.
Post by: javeryh on August 02, 2020, 07:28:26 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200802/8f159b9fcb144008ed05bd63ecafe22d.jpg)
The control board just kind of hangs there and the second hole is for power - I can still stick my finger in there to press power. There is a tiny tiny scratch on the monitor that I hope isn’t noticeable when I turn it on... which I will do tomorrow. I’ve had it. I don’t have it in me to clean up an implosion or patch a wall when I put my fist through it. What a weekend.
Thanks again everyone!
Post by: Arroyo on August 02, 2020, 07:50:49 pm
Post by: javeryh on August 02, 2020, 08:08:11 pm
Nice clean work as always. Lookin good buddy!Thanks man. This was a tough one for me not knowing what I’m doing. Basically building is the only thing I feel comfortable in this hobby and that’s like 1 out of 10 different things you need to know haha.
No fire hazard based on how I blocked everything? I can’t believe how tight everything is - literally no slack on most of the wires (except the degaussing coil, of course, which is flopping around currently).
One thing I noticed is that my plans for the back door might have to change slightly otherwise I won’t ever be able to remove the monitor. Hmmm...
Assuming the monitor actually works, I’m in the home stretch.
Post by: Arroyo on August 02, 2020, 08:11:29 pm
Post by: leapinlew on August 02, 2020, 08:33:49 pm
Post by: Zebidee on August 02, 2020, 08:57:03 pm
Post by: jdbailey1206 on August 03, 2020, 09:09:56 am
Post by: Mike A on August 03, 2020, 09:23:59 am
I am posting this for other people watching.
An arcade monitor is 1000x easier to mount in a cab. They are easier to fix. They are less likely to break.
Every person I have suggested this to said they are too hard to find, and then I found one in their area within minutes of searching.
That being said, I really like your cab design and I am glad you decided to go with a CRT. There is a scary learning curve, but the rewards outweigh the frustrations.
Post by: javeryh on August 03, 2020, 10:38:51 am
No fire hazard. If you look at many original machines they did the same thing you just did. You are good!
That's what I thought but no harm in asking. My wife is paranoid that I'm going to burn the house down messing with electricity like this.
Looking good javeryh! :cheers:
Thanks! So far so good...
Awesome javeryh. This gives me more confidence to remove the outside of my CRT monitor for my Star Wars build and not go with a 19" 4:3 flat computer monitor.
I hope my experience can help. I obviously knew nothing going in and I know like a tiny tiny tiny bit after about 15 hours working on this over the weekend. And I still don't know if it is going to work because I haven't turned it on yet. I did vomit out every thought I had on this subject as you can tell if you have read this far. I think I put it all back together properly...
I can't see any dangling wires anywhere. The suction cup is definitely on properly and the neck PCB seems solidly in place too. All other wires are back in their original position except for the degaussing coil, which is in the ballpark but still a few inches from where it was originally. When I get done with work today I need to make a quick trip to Home Depot for some zip ties to help hold the coil in place. Then I'll double check everything one last time before trying to turn everything on. If all goes well it will be the first time seeing both monitors on at once. Either that or time to get a new monitor...
I know you are deeply committed to the CRT you have. Kudos for diving in.
I am posting this for other people watching.
An arcade monitor is 1000x easier to mount in a cab. They are easier to fix. They are less likely to break.
Every person I have suggested this to said they are too hard to find, and then I found one in their area within minutes of searching.
That being said, I really like your cab design and I am glad you decided to go with a CRT. There is a scary learning curve, but the rewards outweigh the frustrations.
Thanks. I'm glad I ultimately decided to dive in. It's something I've always wanted to learn but never had the nerve. This hasn't scared me off of CRTs (yet) but I can totally understand what lew was saying about not taking off the case being 1000x easier. I thought about that more than once as I was working on it. Mounting the CRT like this doesn't seem to really add anything other than I will know what I did which is reason enough to do anything in a hobby.
Had I known, I would have tried for the arcade monitor. Initially, I wanted a VGA cable to plug into the computer because I didn't know you could get an arcade monitor to talk to a PC easily without one. Next time... The metal chassis on the arcade monitors would have made my life a lot easier!
:cheers:
Post by: Mike A on August 03, 2020, 10:44:56 am
Post by: jennifer on August 03, 2020, 11:56:35 am
Post by: leapinlew on August 03, 2020, 05:11:36 pm
I try to be efficient and take shortcuts when I'm willing to sacrifice authenticity. Everyone is different and I've had the good fortune to re-work things as my requirements for authenticity improved. My Defender phases:
- Built a multi-williams bartop to play Defender and other williams games. Sold it once I realized I only played Defender and I wanted better controls
- Rebuilt a Defender bartop cabinet with an authentic joystick and leaf buttons
- Swapped out the PC for a 19-n-1 and removed all games but Defender
- Added a scan line generator
- Built it out to be a cabaret sized machine <---- where I'm at today
There is something to be said for doing it right the first time! Hopefully I don't need to do anything else. Good job on yours. You won't have any regrets.
Post by: jdbailey1206 on August 04, 2020, 09:53:55 am
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/2c1ee1b44b476a71a933ded7b712230a/tenor.gif)
Post by: javeryh on August 04, 2020, 11:04:17 am
The physics behind it are deep and somewhat theoretical, most of us will spend a lifetime trying to understand but unfortunately will only get to be happy if it works at all.
Very true. As long as it works I don't really care how it works like most things in life.
I think it looks great!
I try to be efficient and take shortcuts when I'm willing to sacrifice authenticity. Everyone is different and I've had the good fortune to re-work things as my requirements for authenticity improved.
There is something to be said for doing it right the first time! Hopefully I don't need to do anything else. Good job on yours. You won't have any regrets.
Thanks - there were more than a few times that I was cursing myself for not being able to leave well enough alone. But I'm glad I went through with it - at least I can cross it off the arcade bucket list. Assuming it actually works!
javeryh does it work? Nothing exploded?
I'll see you guys in 2022 when I have the balls to turn it on.
Actually just been jammed up with work yesterday and today. As soon as I get a few free hours I'll be back at it. I went out and bought some thinner zip ties to hopefully let me tie down the degaussing coil. It's just hanging down in the cabinet right now like 12" or more from the tube because without the plastic bezel from the monitor case, there is nothing really holding it in place.
I've also started thinking about the back door. There are 2 pieces - one fixed at the top and the other is the actual door (with vents and a lock at the top). I have to trim both to fit but the top piece is going to be much shorter than I originally anticipated if I ever want to be able to slide the monitor out.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZSVoXOX.jpg)
As you can kind of see here, this piece will hang down past the interior blocking that the monitor shelf sits on and also the curvature of the monitor makes it even worse (also check out the degaussing coil just hanging there). Not sure how to get a good measurement for this panel. I'm thinking about making the entire piece removable even though I plan to fill the joint at the top and paint over it. Worst case scenario if I had to take out the monitor would be doing a little body work at that top joint when it is all said and done...
Post by: jennifer on August 04, 2020, 03:50:19 pm
Post by: Mike A on August 04, 2020, 04:03:35 pm
That little pooch ain't going to give you a big electrical lighting bolt...However, if you want one...*Jenn does a evil laugh
Meth...It's not just for breakfast anymore!
Post by: javeryh on August 12, 2020, 03:43:10 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/sPI8QoT.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/oc4Ypa0.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8nPvLUs.jpg)
Now I'm trying to figure out how to attach the monitor to the rails. I was thinking about letting gravity do its thing - I can install a sort of stop block at the end of the rails on both sides and the monitor panel would just slide in and those blocks would stop it from going any further. But the panel itself would be floating. Even without the block it doesn't want to slide forward (although it doesn't take much to get it to start sliding). I could use some screws... but I don't want to unless I have to.
Post by: jennifer on August 12, 2020, 04:41:29 pm
Post by: Zebidee on August 12, 2020, 04:51:39 pm
Fix the monitor block from sliding about with a few wood screws
Post by: javeryh on August 12, 2020, 05:00:16 pm
I would bolt it down, Someday somebody else may own it and they may tip it backwards into the truck...Cheap insurance.
Degaussing coil doesn't even need to be attached when you turn on the monitor. The cable's not long enough? That is a bit inconvenient but there are ways around it.
Fix the monitor block from sliding about with a few wood screws
OK so you guys both think I should use some screws through the MDF panel around the monitor and into the rails? Not gluing this block in place + gravity:
(https://i.imgur.com/FpThAi6.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/UASHiic.jpg)
The VGA cable from the back of the monitor is plenty long but I don't feel like unhooking the computer from where it is currently set up and plugging it all in near the monitor just to have to take it all apart. I should though. No loose wires and the suction cup is attached (the wire is a little tight now) and in theory it is ready to go. I'll probably do it tomorrow when I have a 2+ hour window to mess around...
Post by: Zebidee on August 12, 2020, 05:06:34 pm
Post by: Zebidee on August 12, 2020, 05:12:18 pm
Like this!
Post by: javeryh on August 12, 2020, 06:18:13 pm
There's also the back panels to consider. The top one is going to be smaller than I'd like if I ever need to slide the monitor out. Oh well. I'm hoping by this weekend the only thing left to do will be the control panel.
Speaking of... does anyone around here still do artwork? I don't need anything super complicated but I do want something at a high resolution and precise dimensions... little better than my first draft. Try not to be blown away by my insane design skills. I'd love some comments on the CP. Nothing set in stone but I don't want more than 3 buttons and I think the ServoStick will work nicely.
Post by: Zebidee on August 12, 2020, 06:50:33 pm
Yeah I know! Putting screws in is hard because wood is right up against inside of cab. Which is why I usually pre-drill the guide holes before putting wood pieces in place, or remove them to drill the holes, and use a long-arm screwdriver to put screws in. I also use a small right-angle socketed screwdriver for some finicky work in tight spaces. It is a PITA but you’ll work it out.
You might also get away with drill bit extension/arms that allow you to be further back with the drill
Post by: leapinlew on August 12, 2020, 07:17:38 pm
Post by: javeryh on August 16, 2020, 01:03:58 pm
The first thing I had to do was cut the edge at a 45 degree angle so that it could meet the top panel of the cabinet. I also couldn't make this panel too long because if I ever want to get the monitor out it will need to pass under this. I eyeballed it and determined about 2.5" would work. In order to make the 45 degree cut, I used some double sided tape to stick it down to a board exactly perpendicular so that I could use my compound mitre saw to cut it.
(https://i.imgur.com/BBVrLBz.jpg)
This was a little tricky to line up but not too bad. It was much harder to actually cut it because I had to go 18" and my saw can only handle about 12-13" at a time. So I cut one side with the saw tilted 45 degrees to the right, flipped it around and then set the saw to cut 45 degrees to the left and had to line everything up perfectly to complete the cut. It worked for the most part.
This is the result after making the cut:
(https://i.imgur.com/EUnuThA.jpg)
So now I have to glue it in place and short of standing for 2 hours holding it in place (perfectly lined up mind you) I am not sure how to clamp/glue this. Right now I'm waiting for some glue to dry in my garage - I made a make shift clamping jig - but I am not sure it's going to hold.
(https://i.imgur.com/5pT6NqC.jpg)
The seam looks... OK - not totally perfect but it's fine. I'm going to fill the joint and repaint this area to make it all blend in. The most important thing is that it is level so that the back door will fit perfectly. Assuming I can get this glued up in the exact spot I want (perpendicular to the floor but level going across the cabinet) then I have to work out some stop blocks or something so that the back door panel can stay in place. I am not using hinges - the back dor will be completely removable. These are all stupid details that I never think about but always take 5x as much time.
I'm really hoping that Titebond II can set up in an hour well enough to put some clamping pressure on it... I don't want to sit around all day waiting since I actually have time to work on this today...
Post by: javeryh on August 16, 2020, 02:07:58 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200816/fce8b33a426fce41bd7ec438891d50fa.jpg)
Clamping pressure needs to be perpendicular to the joint and this just keeps shearing up. I’m out of idea so I guess I’m just going to stand here like an idiot for an hour and hope it holds.
Post by: javeryh on August 16, 2020, 03:16:08 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200816/b7ceeec6cb565ab0cf51c27719c17c65.jpg)
I’m measuring for the back door now and making some stops out of paint sticks. It’s raining though and I was hoping to spray paint the paint sticks...
Post by: javeryh on August 16, 2020, 05:14:18 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200816/da5c6f5ab78353762b21477879c814d9.jpg)
The back door is not going to be exactly square. I’m off by 1/16” in a few spots so I have to trim the back door panel at a slight angle on the top and bottom if I want it to be a tight fit. What a pain.
Post by: jdbailey1206 on August 17, 2020, 08:22:55 am
The back door is not going to be exactly square. I’m off by 1/16” in a few spots so I have to trim the back door panel at a slight angle on the top and bottom if I want it to be a tight fit. What a pain.
Yeah. That sucks. I always over cut and sand down when fitting. The good thing javeryh is that the back will be up against the wall and you'll be the only one who knows its off.
Post by: javeryh on August 17, 2020, 08:40:56 am
The back door is not going to be exactly square. I’m off by 1/16” in a few spots so I have to trim the back door panel at a slight angle on the top and bottom if I want it to be a tight fit. What a pain.
Yeah. That sucks. I always over cut and sand down when fitting. The good thing javeryh is that the back will be up against the wall and you'll be the only one who knows its off.
I did make the back panel longer than it needs to be so I can trim it down for an exact fit. I'm not sure I like the removable door panel but I also know I won't like a giant hinged door either. When I'm moving the panel in and out for measurements, I'm chipping the paint so I'll have to touch up when I'm done. I guess I won't go inside the cabinet often so it probably won't be a big deal but I also don't want to have to paint every time either!
Post by: jdbailey1206 on August 18, 2020, 02:40:47 pm
Post by: zestyphresh on August 19, 2020, 03:53:12 am
Post by: javeryh on August 23, 2020, 07:15:00 pm
I completey skipped over your control panel post the last time I read through. I feel like you could hide the volume control on the inside of the coin door and tweak it as needed. I installed something like this (https://www.amazon.com/CoCocina-Tda2822M-Channel-Amplifier-Control/dp/B08BR8PTD4) next to the opening of my coin door on the inside of my FFJR cab and was able to open my coin door and adjust it as needed. I feel like the big volume control sitting on the CP would take away from the great vintage aesthetic you have with your cabinet/control panel.
Definitely an option. I'm not sure how often I'd use the volume control - I have never once used it on my DK so maybe not that often. The CP would be pretty sparse with only the joystick, 3 action buttons and 3 much smaller admin buttons. That's OK though... I think. Part of me wants to jam a spinner or trackball on there since I do not currently have a working spinner or trackball in my basement. But I also don't want to clog it up just for the sake of MORE GAMES!
Also, if you're using an i-pac then they have built in shift key options for controlling the master volume.
This is a good idea. I don't have an iPac (yet) though. I have one of those cheap Chinese encoders from Amazon that was like $8 and I thought since I didn't have that many controls I could get away with it. But I don't mind spending some extra money if there is a better solution.
I've been out of commission for the last week because of old man nonsense - I exercise a lot and ended up pulling a muscle. I couldn't even walk until yesterday. So today I finally worked on the cab a little bit and got to cut the back door to size. I had to sand it at least 10 times until I git a snug fit. I also had to take 3/32" off of one side because that little top rear panel wasn't cut 100% straight. No one will notice. Heck, I can barely notice and I know it is there.
I have to say though - this was a HUGE pain. I wanted a snug fit so I had to sneak up on the line but I also chipped the hell out of my paint job in the process. It is so bad that tomorrow I'm going to add another (light) top coat to hopefully make it look better. I just hope the new layer of paint doesn't mess with the snug fit. Since I decided to paint, I also took some spackle and gently filled the seam where the top panel meets that short back panel. It was barely noticeable but with a fresh coat of paint on top it will be completely invisible. I have spent way too much time on the back of this cabinet!
Once I paint and get the door into final position tomorrow, I'll be able to slide the monitor as far back as possible and secure it in place with some screws. Then, I'll be able to take the final measurement of the control panel height. My rough estimate is 6-3/4" so not too bad. The control panel overlay is the last unknown...
Post by: Arroyo on August 23, 2020, 08:37:22 pm
I have spent way too much time on the back of this cabinet!
Oh yeah? :laugh:
You are inspiring me with your posts Javery. I gotta get back on schedule. Well done, keep it up!
Post by: javeryh on August 23, 2020, 10:22:10 pm
Ha - I want to be able to say I accomplished something during quarantine. You need to get back to it!I have spent way too much time on the back of this cabinet!
Oh yeah? :laugh:
You are inspiring me with your posts Javery. I gotta get back on schedule. Well done, keep it up!
I just hope the control panel doesn’t slow me down too much. I can’t decide if I want to keep it black and white or if this is the place for a splash of color. And I also need to figure out what controls to use!
Post by: javeryh on August 24, 2020, 12:23:09 pm
This is a finished shot of the back door. The textured paint is super cool. It's rough but it feels like plastic - much nicer than standard black paint, IMO. Although, I'm starting to realize that the iPhone sucks for pics but it's all I've got soooo...
(https://i.imgur.com/pbNkjAK.jpg)
You can't see it from the first pic but I added some guide rails to the bottom that keep the panel from popping out. Here is a close-up:
(https://i.imgur.com/Kg2Cf9N.jpg)
There is a third guide rail on the cabinet itself that prevents the bottom of the door panel from being pushed into the cabinet. It also helps align everything for a tight fit in the same plane. You can see it on top of the bottom back panel here:
(https://i.imgur.com/g2MVNIK.jpg)
And finally, after many hours, the finished rear of the cabinet.
(https://i.imgur.com/FgJroxq.jpg)
I'm quite pleased how this all worked out. I cannot even tell that there is a 3/32" alignment error back there.
Eventually I want to replace the keys with something flatter so I can push this up against the wall with the keys back there. Next I'll be screwing the monitor in place and measuring and cutting the blank for the control panel. Starting to feel like the end is near...
:cheers:
Post by: PL1 on August 24, 2020, 12:55:45 pm
Eventually I want to replace the keys with something flatter so I can push this up against the wall with the keys back there.Something like this keyless lock?
http://www.arcadeshop.com/i/1614/keyless-video-game-pinball-lock-7-8.htm (http://www.arcadeshop.com/i/1614/keyless-video-game-pinball-lock-7-8.htm)
(http://4imgs.com/1103/sys/prod/1614_2_0_0.JPG)
Scott
Post by: jdbailey1206 on August 24, 2020, 02:40:36 pm
Eventually I want to replace the keys with something flatter so I can push this up against the wall with the keys back there.Something like this keyless lock?
http://www.arcadeshop.com/i/1614/keyless-video-game-pinball-lock-7-8.htm (http://www.arcadeshop.com/i/1614/keyless-video-game-pinball-lock-7-8.htm)
Scott
All sorts of fun options:
Thumb Operated (https://www.amazon.com/2PCS-Thumb-Operated-Offset-Black/dp/B07TWM1GTC/ref=pd_lpo_229_t_0/139-2022840-5407556?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07TWM1GTC&pd_rd_r=37b82f24-5a03-4187-a966-1f5ab7d462b2&pd_rd_w=DL5E5&pd_rd_wg=Mw3gi&pf_rd_p=7b36d496-f366-4631-94d3-61b87b52511b&pf_rd_r=HGSEBKZQGZ6P8RCM6CBH&refRID=HGSEBKZQGZ6P8RCM6CBH&th=1)
Lock Combination (https://www.amazon.com/3-Digit-Rotating-Combination-Wardrobe-Password/dp/B07X1XB7TM/ref=sr_1_11?dchild=1&keywords=combination+cam+lock&qid=1598294050&sr=8-11)
Screw Operated (https://www.amazon.com/Cam-Latch-Slotted-Bright-Nickel/dp/B007IBW1NI)
Show us the front bro.
Post by: javeryh on August 24, 2020, 03:57:23 pm
Here's a shot of the front with my legs showing - nothing has really changed in a while.
(https://i.imgur.com/DxWj0aK.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ncHKzPg.jpg)
The "CP" that is shown is just some scrap about 1/8" thick so it doesn't represent the final look. I am going to use a 3/4" thick piece of MDF for the CP with a rounded over front edge. The whole thing will be wrapped in vinyl. I cut it 6-3/4" tall but may need to scale it back to 6-1/2" or 6-1/4". The full screen is viewable as is but I would do this to make it more proportional. Not sure yet.
I guess I can start making a "punch list" since I am nearing the end...
- Cut CP blank
- Secure Monitor panel in place
- Design CP layout and art
- Order 1/4" tempered glass (gray)
- Order controls
- Install cleats for glass to rest on
- Cut black matte board for monitor bezel
- Install computer, wire CP and configure everything
I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot of little stuff. I should also finally man up and check to make sure the monitor works - I still haven't done that but it's a pain to move the computer and everything...
Post by: wp34 on August 25, 2020, 10:35:48 am
Post by: Arroyo on August 26, 2020, 04:33:13 pm
Post by: javeryh on August 27, 2020, 04:09:48 pm
Looking great javeryh! I agree that textured paint looks great on that back door.
That paint looks really nice Javery. Do you think if you had your pick you would choose it over the laminate?
Thanks guys. I really like the paint but it is very different from the smooth laminate. I'm not sure I'd want to cover an entire cabinet in it but for the top and back it's fine. It is super expensive ($70 for 1/2 gallon if I remember correctly) but it lasts. It is made for speakers - if you have ever felt a guitar amp up close that is what it is like. Very rough to the touch but it reflects light in all different directions. It wouldn't be possible to add artwork on top but if you wanted an all black cab, it would work and look great. You have to pre-paint before assembly though - the texture comes out way different using a brush vs. the roller.
Post by: javeryh on August 27, 2020, 04:27:26 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/ucjHtvq.png)
The background will be black and the lettering will be white and the gray won't be seen at all except for the crosses in the middle where I'd have to drill. Start 1 and Start 2 are Atari Volcano buttons. The others are regular Happ buttons for now (although I'm going to order 3 true-leaf buttons soon but they should be the same size). The left most circle is for a spinner. Not sold on it yet but I don't have a spinner anywhere in my house so I thought it would be cool. I'd rather try for a trackball but I don't think I have the room. The font is called "Data 70" which I think looks pretty cool and it matches the font I used on the Hyperspin theme.
I want something that pops - I'm adding splashes of red because of the volcano button LEDs and I might try adding some bold white stripes through the 3 action buttons or something just so there isn't too much black. I'm sure I'll be posting a ton of different concepts as I work through this...
:dunno
Post by: javeryh on August 27, 2020, 05:57:39 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/Sa3jNIX.png)
I think the rings around the buttons are too thick but they were a huge pain to make so I'll probably fix that tomorrow. I was originally going to go with white buttons on the black background but now I might go black buttons with the white buffer there. I'm slowly getting the hang of how to do stuff but it is not intuitive to me at all.
So is the spinner worth it? I think my wife likes break-out games but I’m not sure it’s worth it for just that.
This layout will probably change 20 more times...
Post by: wp34 on August 27, 2020, 09:27:42 pm
So is the spinner worth it? I think my wife likes break-out games but I’m not sure it’s worth it for just that.
I think a spinner is nice to have. Cameltry is a lot of fun to play with a spinner. And like to play a few racing games on mine. It isn't as good as a dedicated wheel of course but it scratches that itch for me.
Post by: javeryh on August 28, 2020, 11:01:52 am
I like your menu a lot. The font and colors are great. If you are going for Blip that is a great start. :cheers:
Thanks. It is slowly coming together. I have a few simple ideas that I'm going to try out today. It's funny that my cab is an amalgamation of Blip and Cube - both designed by markc74! I guess if you are going to rip someone off might as well be one of the best.
I think a spinner is nice to have. Cameltry is a lot of fun to play with a spinner. And like to play a few racing games on mine. It isn't as good as a dedicated wheel of course but it scratches that itch for me.
Cameltry is one of those games that I've always wanted to try but never have. The only spinner games I've ever played in the arcade are Arkanoid and Tron. I'm going to keep it for now - seems like there are at least 5-10 games worth having, which is plenty for this cabinet.
Post by: yamatetsu on August 28, 2020, 12:27:36 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/Sa3jNIX.png)
The 'menu' text is mostly redundant as you have that already on your screen menu. I would make that wall of text an instruction card at the bottom of the bezel as you look mostly at the screen, not at the CP. For the CP, 'just' do a simple black/white design, maybe something like this:
(https://i.imgur.com/0SpMBBY.png)
As for that difficult-to-create pattern around the buttons: You can just order some black and some white buttons and switch the plungers so that you get 3 black buttons with white rings. That way you can axe that pattern and save yourself some fun trying to align the buttons and the pattern.
Post by: javeryh on August 28, 2020, 01:53:56 pm
The 'menu' text is mostly redundant as you have that already on your screen menu. I would make that wall of text an instruction card at the bottom of the bezel as you look mostly at the screen, not at the CP.
yeah... I was thinking about getting rid of the instructions in the front end because I kind of like how they look on the CP. Most of these old cabinets seem to have instructions somewhere. I'm not married to anything though so I'll keep playing around. Here's my latest attempt. I do not like the "arrows" around the spinner. I tried matching the arrows on the joystick ring but something doesn't look quite right. I think the button rings look MUCH better and I like the graphic around the joystick... I think.
(https://i.imgur.com/0H6S3gK.png)
I also like the white stripes on the pic you posted and was thinking of running something similar through the buttons (vertically). I need to keep iterating on this. Thanks for the feedback!
Post by: javeryh on August 28, 2020, 03:27:36 pm
This first version shows a slightly revamped instruction card. I think it looks a little more uniform/less busy this way.
(https://i.imgur.com/YL99409.png)
Something about the symmetry was bugging me so I decided to center the 3 groups of controls over the instruction card and landed here:
(https://i.imgur.com/kqsfzmN.png)
This is much more visually pleasing BUT (and this is important) I am not sure the functionality remains the same. The centered joystick means that 80% of the time, the player will be standing to the right of center to play. Also, the action buttons might now be too close to the Pause button - I don't want that to be hit by mistake (it would have to be a pretty big mistake but still possible I guess).
Any thoughts?
Post by: Zebidee on August 28, 2020, 04:21:21 pm
There is a beauty in elegant simplicity.
Post by: javeryh on August 28, 2020, 05:32:14 pm
I'd like to echo yamatetsu's comments about removing the menu text from control panel itself - you should have enough space for instructions on the bezel area between the screen and control panel.
There is a beauty in elegant simplicity.
Thanks. I made some revisions to the spinner outline:
(https://i.imgur.com/wzbj7sp.png)
And here is the same layout with no instructions.
(https://i.imgur.com/KrPtpz1.png)
I should note that there will be no room on the bezel around the monitor for instructions, which is why I wanted to put something on the CP itself. Also, the volcano buttons will light up red - and they will be the only red accent on the CP without the instructions. I'm sure I could add something else but I kind of liked how your eye was drawn to the instruction headers.
That said, I do agree that simple can be the most elegant when it comes to design... but too plain is boring too... :cheers:
Post by: Mike A on August 28, 2020, 05:33:27 pm
If so a pause button is not necessary.
Post by: javeryh on August 28, 2020, 05:36:42 pm
Are you only playing arcade games on this?
If so a pause button is not necessary.
Arcade only! But then I'd need an exit button and yeah I could make it so P1+P2=Exit but I hang out with idiots... drunk idiots. I want it to be simple but yeah, I totally get how losing that Pause button might look better.
Post by: Jimbo on August 28, 2020, 06:03:56 pm
I'd like to echo yamatetsu's comments about removing the menu text from control panel itself - you should have enough space for instructions on the bezel area between the screen and control panel.
There is a beauty in elegant simplicity.
Another vote here for no instructions. I think I said this before too about the frontend. Honestly, it's so simple to pick games, anyone will get how to do it within seconds. Just map the joystick and spinner to scroll through the list, then map it so that any button starts a game. Keep it nice and clean looking is my suggestion. Instructions are just clutter that nobody will read. C'mon Jav, you can make this thing look sooooo cool and stylish without all that unneeded text! >:D
Also, yeah... I'd say lose the 'pause', but a dedicated 'exit game' button is a good idea. I wouldn't configure any shifted button functionality, because in my experience, you either have to tell everyone how to use it, or people will keep pressing the combo accidentally when hammering buttons.
:cheers:
Post by: Arroyo on August 28, 2020, 06:57:13 pm
For aesthetics, I agree you don’t need a lot of instructions, especially with a simple control panel. I also don’t know about the rectangle around the joystick, have you tried it without it?
Looking good buddy, keep going!
Post by: javeryh on August 28, 2020, 07:51:03 pm
Another vote here for no instructions. I think I said this before too about the frontend. Honestly, it's so simple to pick games, anyone will get how to do it within seconds. Just map the joystick and spinner to scroll through the list, then map it so that any button starts a game. Keep it nice and clean looking is my suggestion. Instructions are just clutter that nobody will read. C'mon Jav, you can make this thing look sooooo cool and stylish without all that unneeded text! >:D
Also, yeah... I'd say lose the 'pause', but a dedicated 'exit game' button is a good idea. I wouldn't configure any shifted button functionality, because in my experience, you either have to tell everyone how to use it, or people will keep pressing the combo accidentally when hammering buttons.
Hmmm... I'm starting to sense a theme... ;D I get that the instructions aren't "needed" in the strictest sense. It will be easy to figure out for sure. However, I kind of like the way they look and without them the entire thing looks super boring to me - not elegant/stylish. Also, won't no red make the volcano buttons kind of stick out in a weird way? Maybe it's just me. I have a couple more ideas to play around with though without the instructions. Stay tuned.
I’m going to go against the grain and say keep the pause. Have it double as an exit button with a long hold. If you are getting comfortable with RocketLauncher, then you’ll know you can double up the button functionality. Also in Pause in RocketLauncher you can get all kinds of cool things, like flyers of the game, cabinet photos, control panel pics, moves list for fighting games (not applicable for this build)....
For aesthetics, I agree you don’t need a lot of instructions, especially with a simple control panel. I also don’t know about the rectangle around the joystick, have you tried it without it?
Looking good buddy, keep going!
Thanks - My plan was to do exactly what you described. Push to pause and long hold to exit. I don't want push to exit on the panel. Too easy to hit it by mistake. I'm really torn on the art though - I like simple but I also really like the way Blip came out and it had instructions.
The rectangle around the joystick was just the outline for the mounting plate. Here it is without it:
(https://i.imgur.com/SzfvU4D.png)
I still need to refine my Inkscape skills - I really don't know how to do much. Making shapes is not intuitive and while joining shapes is easy, lining them up exactly is super hard. I'm sure I just need to dive in a little deeper and I'm pretty pleased with my progress in just 2 days of messing around...
Post by: wp34 on August 28, 2020, 08:05:54 pm
Hmmm... I'm starting to sense a theme... ;D I get that the instructions aren't "needed" in the strictest sense. It will be easy to figure out for sure. However, I kind of like the way they look and without them the entire thing looks super boring to me - not elegant/stylish. Also, won't no red make the volcano buttons kind of stick out in a weird way? Maybe it's just me. I have a couple more ideas to play around with though without the instructions. Stay tuned.I agree the instructions probably are not needed but they look great and give your CP a more authentic look. Original games had instructions on them.
I’m going to go against the grain and say keep the pause. Have it double as an exit button with a long hold.+1 on the Pause. I'm actually going to convert my coin-up button to a pause as there have been many times I've wanted to use one. Especially now that I'm listening to vinyl records while I play.
Post by: yamatetsu on August 29, 2020, 01:24:36 am
(https://i.imgur.com/kqsfzmN.png)
This is much more visually pleasing BUT (and this is important) I am not sure the functionality remains the same. The centered joystick means that 80% of the time, the player will be standing to the right of center to play.
That shouldn't even be a consideration. You don't want to have something that looks good but has ---smurfy--- controls. Functionality > art.
Post by: Zebidee on August 29, 2020, 02:02:02 am
Post by: Jimbo on August 29, 2020, 05:40:02 am
However... I understand the modern need to be able to pause a game. What I did at work (and at home/videotron bartop) was a half-way house. I didn't want it on the CP as it just didn't look right. People just paused the game and walked off and forgot about it, or they'd pause it because it was too noisy etc, which was no good for the CRT. In the end I put the pause button on the back of the cab. Reachable, but you have to know it's there. i.e. for me pause should only be used in an emergency (e.g. you're on a really good score and someone calls "dinner's ready!"). :) I'd say keep it off the CP if you can, it'll hardly ever be used.
With the instructions, I get the reason for it to be on the CP - and if you do, I'd definitely recommend removing them from the frontend theme completely. Otherwise you'll have instructions overload. :) :cheers:
Post by: bperkins01 on August 29, 2020, 08:59:39 am
I used autohotkey to create the function.. My buttons also have RGB so the color changes from yellow to red signaling the exit
happy to share it if you like.
Post by: Mike A on August 29, 2020, 10:38:30 am
You have spent a lot of time and energy on making this look like it belongs in an arcade. I would say no pause button.
When I am playing arcade games it is just part of the experience if I have to leave the machine in the middle of a game.
Any scores you get are tainted if you are using a pause button.
If you are playing console games that is different. They had a pause button.
Post by: javeryh on August 29, 2020, 01:32:05 pm
I agree the instructions probably are not needed but they look great and give your CP a more authentic look. Original games had instructions on them.
This is what I'm thinking currently. Still not 100% but I like the CP with them better than without right now.
That shouldn't even be a consideration. You don't want to have something that looks good but has ---smurfy--- controls. Functionality > art.
Agreed. In this case I don't think I'm really giving up functionality by centering the joystick. Lots old cabinets did this. What do you think?
+1 for pause button here. So long as it is away from the main hand/action area (which it is).
I think I've come up with a good compromise...
Yeah the reason I said no pause, is that they didn't exist on original cabs. You're trying to make this look like an original cab (hence wanting instructions on there etc) and doing a bloody good job of it, so to me this goes against that idea...
However... I understand the modern need to be able to pause a game. What I did at work (and at home/videotron bartop) was a half-way house. I didn't want it on the CP as it just didn't look right. People just paused the game and walked off and forgot about it, or they'd pause it because it was too noisy etc, which was no good for the CRT. In the end I put the pause button on the back of the cab. Reachable, but you have to know it's there. i.e. for me pause should only be used in an emergency (e.g. you're on a really good score and someone calls "dinner's ready!"). :) I'd say keep it off the CP if you can, it'll hardly ever be used.
With the instructions, I get the reason for it to be on the CP - and if you do, I'd definitely recommend removing them from the frontend theme completely. Otherwise you'll have instructions overload. :) :cheers:
Thanks. I actually agree in principal about no pause button - it's not needed at all. However, what I do need is an Exit button... no way around it so this is why I am going to double them up. My "compromise" is that I will no longer label the button as "Pause" - it will kind of be a hidden feature. Instead the button will be "Hold for 5 seconds to Exit" (not labeled like that - the button will not have any label). So if you want to exit you hold it down but if you don't and just press it - hey neat it paused.
I will definitely remove the instructions from the front end layout if I go with instructions on the CP - I completely agree I do not want instructions overload!
Maybe this applies - I didn't want a bunch of control buttons.. I dual purposed my exit and pause button.. in a game - if you hit the exit button - it pauses.. If you press and hold the button for 3 seconds.. it then exits the game (no accidental exits) .. outside of a game its just the escape key..
I used autohotkey to create the function.. My buttons also have RGB so the color changes from yellow to red signaling the exit
happy to share it if you like.
Thanks!! This is definitely been the plan and any help would be appreciated. Arroyo said that RocketLauncher has this feature built in (I haven't tried setting it up yet). I was always under the impression I'd have to figure out an AHK script... which would not be easy for me. If you've got a file I'd love to see it. :cheers:
I would say no pause button.
When I am playing arcade games it is just part of the experience if I have to leave the machine in the middle of a game.
Any scores you get are tainted if you are using a pause button.
Yup. I think most everyone agrees no pause button but like I said I need an Exit button so I am going to use it for that. I'm also resizing it down to 24mm so it will be even less likely to be pressed and it can be a little more out of the way.
Thanks everyone - I really appreciate the feedback. Helps me work through stuff.
Post by: javeryh on August 29, 2020, 01:46:53 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/4Iz5JxN.png)
I extended the "canvas" so that it will print larger than needed instead of having to be super exact I can just cut it back. I increased the font on the instructions to make it slightly more legible (13 to 14 point), fixed the borders so that they are (mostly) the same thickness) and deleted the "Pause" label. The instructions changed slightly to accommodate the change - instead of "Hold PAUSE button for 5 seconds to return to menu" it now reads, "Hold BLACK button for 5 seconds to EXIT to menu".
I tried deleting the instructions and adding some white racing stripes and some other ideas I had but ended up hating it. One other thing I'm not certain about is the front edge. Originally I was going to round it over so the CP art would round over as well but I can also keep it square and add t-molding across the front. Leaning towards round over but just putting different options out there for me to stress over haha.
Here is where I've settled on the controls:
- ServoStik from Ultimarc
- SpinTrak from Ultimarc
- 3 white GoldLeaf bushbuttons from Ultimarc
- 1 24mm black Seimitsu pushbutton from Focus Attack
- 2 volcano buttons with red LED from Arcadeshop
- iPac2 from Ultimarc
So much for my "budget"!
Post by: jennifer on August 29, 2020, 02:00:03 pm
Post by: J_K_M_A_N on August 29, 2020, 02:38:29 pm
Edit: I see now it is SLIGHTLY indented to be an X but with the font that small, it is tough to see it as an X. :-\
J_K_M_A_N
Post by: javeryh on August 29, 2020, 03:12:07 pm
I am not sure if that font just makes the X look like an H or if you accidentally put EHIT. If it is the font, that is kind of a bummer. I wonder if you could make that one letter look more X like by just drawing it instead of using the font.
Edit: I see now it is SLIGHTLY indented to be an X but with the font that small, it is tough to see it as an X. :-\
J_K_M_A_N
Dammit. I thought the exact same thing. ;D
It's definitely an "X" and looks the same upper or lowercase. I'll fix it.
EDIT: fixed.
Post by: Zebidee on August 29, 2020, 03:51:39 pm
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: javeryh on August 29, 2020, 04:14:10 pm
Idea! Make your pause:exit button black (on black background). I deliberately choose that for mine so that they don’t stand out. Players magically just forget about it! Amazing effect really.
That's the plan! Black 24mm button with black bezel and no CP art oulines or anything. Black on black to try and kind of hide it...
Post by: javeryh on August 29, 2020, 05:15:44 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/gUg7wKm.png)
Post by: Jimbo on August 29, 2020, 05:45:26 pm
Pressing start 1 to start a game would annoy the heck out of me though. My hands would already be on the joystick and 3 buttons ready to play something as soon as I step up to the cab, and also as soon as I exit a game. So why not have player button 1 start the game so you don't have to keep moving your hand over? Or even better, let any button start the game.
You could also let the spinner browse the list of games.
Post by: javeryh on August 29, 2020, 06:52:46 pm
Looking good :)
Pressing start 1 to start a game would annoy the heck out of me though. My hands would already be on the joystick and 3 buttons ready to play something as soon as I step up to the cab, and also as soon as I exit a game. So why not have player button 1 start the game so you don't have to keep moving your hand over? Or even better, let any button start the game.
You could also let the spinner browse the list of games.
Great ideas. I wonder if I should change the font to say "Press ANY BUTTON" to start game" or keep it the same and just set it up so any button starts a game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAqANsvsgqY
Post by: J_K_M_A_N on August 29, 2020, 10:18:49 pm
J_K_M_A_N
Post by: Zebidee on August 29, 2020, 11:51:30 pm
I’d tighten-up the instructions a bit. By that I mean using less words to say same thing.
By which I mean just “UP/DOWN select game” is enough, for example
“LEFT/RIGHT skip letter” etc. and so on
Less is more
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: yamatetsu on August 30, 2020, 02:40:04 am
That shouldn't even be a consideration. You don't want to have something that looks good but has ---smurfy--- controls. Functionality > art.
Agreed. In this case I don't think I'm really giving up functionality by centering the joystick. Lots old cabinets did this. What do you think?
I think that you're doing this a bit backwards. Ask yourself some questions: Who is going to use the cab the most? Which controls are going to be used the most? The answers are probably going to be I am, joystick, buttons. So, make a CP mockup, cardboard or scrap wood, put it on the cab. Stand in front of the cab, put your hands where you want the controls to be, mark those positions. Measure the positions, transfer those measurements to your CP art. Now you have some fixed points to design your art around. If you cut holes in the mockup, you can even put the controls into it, do a test print of the CP art, apply it to the mockup and see how it will look IRL.
Oh, and you also will be able to see how it ties in with the rest of the cab.
I increased the font on the instructions to make it slightly more legible (13 to 14 point)
That's why I would use a vector graphics program. In CorelDraw, you type in your text and then just resize it to any size you want.
Post by: Jimbo on August 30, 2020, 05:51:17 am
Great ideas. I wonder if I should change the font to say "Press ANY BUTTON" to start game" or keep it the same and just set it up so any button starts a game.
I don't think it matters what you put in the instructions coz nobody's gunna read'em! ;) >:D
Also... I reckon you'll get bored waiting for 5 seconds every time you want to exit a game. You'll be counting it in your head. Personally I'd set it to 2 seconds, or 3 seconds max. Time is money my friend! ;) OR... ditch the pause and just exit immediately! >:D
Post by: javeryh on August 30, 2020, 10:11:29 am
"RETURN" is a good compromise. Nice fix. :cheers:
J_K_M_A_N
Thanks. I think it works. Although I did end up staring at the screen for 30 minutes with the words "Hold" and "RETURN" also colored red to link the actions but ultimately decided it didn't look right. I don't know how people do graphic design for a living when the possibilities are literally endless.
Love your work.
I’d tighten-up the instructions a bit. By that I mean using less words to say same thing.
By which I mean just “UP/DOWN select game” is enough, for example
“LEFT/RIGHT skip letter” etc. and so on
Less is more
I agree less is more - I cleaned up a few lines of text to make it read a little better.
I think that you're doing this a bit backwards. Ask yourself some questions: Who is going to use the cab the most? Which controls are going to be used the most? The answers are probably going to be I am, joystick, buttons. So, make a CP mockup, cardboard or scrap wood, put it on the cab. Stand in front of the cab, put your hands where you want the controls to be, mark those positions. Measure the positions, transfer those measurements to your CP art. Now you have some fixed points to design your art around. If you cut holes in the mockup, you can even put the controls into it, do a test print of the CP art, apply it to the mockup and see how it will look IRL.
Oh, and you also will be able to see how it ties in with the rest of the cab.
I am going to do this today. I have a piece of scrap for the CP so I will play around with it. I agree that functionality is more important than looks BUT in this case I am willing to sacrifice 5% functionality to make it look a lot better if that is the way it works out. My end goal is to have a functioning piece of art not necessarily a functioning arcade cabinet if that makes any sense at all. Since this will be going in my house permanently and I will be looking at it a lot more than I will be playing it I'm OK with 95% functionality. There is a fine line though - I do not want it to be even 1% non-functional. I know I'm not explaining this correctly...
This might not matter because I've mocked up the controls without the spinner and I like how it looks and it's 100% functional. The spinner was always a "nice to have" with only 18" to work with although this CP (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=149895.0;attach=363521;image)is beautiful and it's only 19-5/8" with a spinner, joystick, 3 buttons and a 2.25" trackball!
That's why I would use a vector graphics program. In CorelDraw, you type in your text and then just resize it to any size you want.
Inkscape is a vector program - If you don't change the type to an object you can change the font however you want but if you make it an object you can scale it up or down in size (but then I'm not sure how to get the rest of the font to scale to the same size doing it that way). I'm still learning. It's a really cool program.
I don't think it matters what you put in the instructions coz nobody's gunna read'em! ;) >:D
Also... I reckon you'll get bored waiting for 5 seconds every time you want to exit a game. You'll be counting it in your head. Personally I'd set it to 2 seconds, or 3 seconds max. Time is money my friend! ;) OR... ditch the pause and just exit immediately! >:D
LOL this is so true. I am taking your advice and I got rid of the "5 second" concept. So now it basically says "Hold to exit". You are right - 3 seconds is probably fine so now I can set it up to work however I want and I'm not bound to any set time.
Thanks everyone! I work a lot better in small steps refining everything as I go and all of this advice/criticism helps me work it through. I am jealous of a lot of you who just post the finished product and it is perfect (although I'm sure there is a lot of behind the scenes stuff that gets omitted). :cheers:
Post by: javeryh on August 30, 2020, 10:25:22 am
(https://i.imgur.com/IA2qs57.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/CK153B4.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/hTobAuc.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/gkH9p5f.png)
Today I'm going to finally cut the blank for the control panel and then take some measurements for the monitor glass and place some orders.
Post by: javeryh on August 30, 2020, 01:54:46 pm
The joystick/button only layout definitely feels better because you can stand dead center and play. Also, less clutter on the panel. So I'm leaning that way. Whatever I build next will just have to include a spinner and trackball - I haven't built an "all-in-one" cab yet and it's probably time but that's for another day.
What do you think?
(https://i.imgur.com/Rfruo6G.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/9yDnGTK.jpg)
Post by: yamatetsu on August 30, 2020, 04:09:04 pm
One other thing I'm not certain about is the front edge. Originally I was going to round it over so the CP art would round over as well but I can also keep it square and add t-molding across the front. Leaning towards round over but just putting different options out there for me to stress over haha.
I'd do it square and add t-molding because the CP won't have the same texture as your black paint and it probably won't be the exact tone of black, either. So you can use the t-molding as a divider. Also, you can let the CP art go over the edge and tuck it behind the t-molding.
Post by: Zebidee on August 30, 2020, 04:49:11 pm
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: javeryh on August 30, 2020, 05:53:40 pm
I'd do it square and add t-molding because the CP won't have the same texture as your black paint and it probably won't be the exact tone of black, either. So you can use the t-molding as a divider. Also, you can let the CP art go over the edge and tuck it behind the t-molding.
Rounding off the cp will look lots better than T-molding
I hate you guys. ;D
I don't care much about the blacks not matching but I was leaning towards the round over because of wrist comfort but the t-molding is a nice divider. Hmmm...
What about the spinner vs. no spinner?
In other news... this thing actually works!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM1f-WCXYNc
EDIT: I need to adjust the picture on the monitor (move to the left and expand the field) but the settings board isn't responsive. I am worried I damaged it during my tear down. The green LED isn't coming on and I cannot access any settings in the monitor's menu. Any help would be great.
Post by: Zebidee on August 30, 2020, 07:21:29 pm
IMO T-molding is great for sides, but at that CP edge will make your cab look cheap - it will also come away easily, collect dirt, players may tend to pick at the edge. It might also tend to cut into your wrist/fingers, although your CP angle may minimise that. Never seen an arcade cab done like that so will look inauthentic too.
Love the active marquee :D Wish I knew how to do that easily, must put it on my arcade cab bucket-list
Post by: leapinlew on August 30, 2020, 07:24:06 pm
Post by: Zebidee on August 30, 2020, 09:09:32 pm
(https://imgur.com/KCLSqmo.jpg)
Post by: javeryh on August 30, 2020, 10:03:58 pm
Love the active marquee :D Wish I knew how to do that easily, must put it on my arcade cab bucket-list
If I can figure it out literally anyone can. There is a youtube video by MAMEFAN that explains how to set it up in Hyperspin.
Coming along great! Remember when an active marquee was a wish list item? Crazy. Good job.
For sure - we have come a long way! It's going to be hard to go back to a static marquee after this project. I knew what was coming and I still thought it was super cool when everything turned on. I just hope I can figure out how to tweak the CRT settings.
I love the look of original Moon Patrol CP, with the curved front. This one has taken a beating!
Yeah... I am likely going to round over the edge. I have a plan to tweak the art ever so slightly to accommodate for it. Right now the border around the instructions just goes straight down, which I think might look awkward where it meets the front panel. Instead, I think I'm going to turn that into a rectangle with the bottom edge on the curve. Tomorrow though.
Post by: javeryh on August 31, 2020, 03:28:16 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/vaztqi0.png)
The ServoStik, control board, iPAC2, white balltop, white goldleaf buttons and black 24mm button (for pause/exit) have all been ordered. If I can get this image to the printer this week, I should be able to finish this all up by end of September. Can't wait... I've got a few ideas for the next one LOL. :cheers:
Post by: Arroyo on August 31, 2020, 04:07:32 pm
I see that you have pretty much decided on the "final" version of the layout. Personally I liked this one the best:
(https://i.imgur.com/hTobAuc.png)
Just looks nice, and it looks comfortable.
If I can help with your Marquee issue, let me know. I've had a lot of practice with HyperMarquee.
Post by: Jimbo on August 31, 2020, 04:08:52 pm
Post by: javeryh on September 01, 2020, 11:02:11 am
Holy Bedjeezez, I step away for a couple of days and missed out on all this. Wow! that marquee and monitor look awesome!!! Well done Javery!
I see that you have pretty much decided on the "final" version of the layout. Personally I liked this one the best:
Just looks nice, and it looks comfortable.
If I can help with your Marquee issue, let me know. I've had a lot of practice with HyperMarquee.
Yeah... I like that one too. I'm not sure how feasible it is though. The trackball mounting plate is 6"x6" and the CP is only 6.5" tall. Also, the front needs to be about 0.75" before I can drill through because of the marquee monitor sitting right underneath. I'd also have to drill a hole in the mounting plate for the exit button (and probably lose 1 of the posts on the mounting plate). So not a lot of wiggle room. I'm really torn on the controls - part of me still wants to play as many games as I can so spinner/trackball are appealing but the other part of me wants simplicity above all and a more focused cabinet. I go back and forth hourly!
As for the monitor issue - I don't have a marquee problem. That works perfectly. My issue is that the control board on the CRT seems to be damaged. It is plugged into the motherboard but the green LED does not come on and I cannot access the menu. The image needs to be readjusted - it is about 1/2" off center and is also about 1/2" smaller than it should be all the way around. I really don't know how to fix it.
Do you remember how you set up the "press to pause / hold to exit" button in RocketLauncher?
When I read the "how to play"... it took me a while to stop expecting some instructions below it (like the other 2 boxes). Maybe it's just me, but is the "how to play" bit in the middle strictly necessary? Can you try a version without that how to play bar in the middle?
I messed around a bit more based on your suggestion. I'm not sure I like it better. The boxes need to be anchored to something. Maybe if I changed the boxes to the left and right of "How to Play" to be arrows pointing to each box it would be more visually pleasing?
(https://i.imgur.com/fh0oyZw.png)
Post by: BGoulette on September 01, 2020, 11:09:58 am
Post by: Jimbo on September 01, 2020, 11:49:12 am
The line weight of the boxes has been bothering me: I see they mirror the heavy stroke around the controls, but they dwarf the text they surround, and the high contrast white overpowers the much lower contrast red. Have you considered reducing the weight of the white stroke around the text?
I agree - the boxes are really high contrast and in your face. They pull your eyes away from the controls. With thinner lines that might even make it look better without the "how to play" line across the middle? Maybe also see if darker lines look better too?
Post by: Arroyo on September 01, 2020, 11:57:29 am
Do you remember how you set up the "press to pause / hold to exit" button in RocketLauncher?
I'll get you some screen shots/walkthrough of the areas in the UI later today.
Post by: javeryh on September 01, 2020, 02:50:09 pm
The line weight of the boxes has been bothering me: I see they mirror the heavy stroke around the controls, but they dwarf the text they surround, and the high contrast white overpowers the much lower contrast red. Have you considered reducing the weight of the white stroke around the text?
I agree - the boxes are really high contrast and in your face. They pull your eyes away from the controls. With thinner lines that might even make it look better without the "how to play" line across the middle? Maybe also see if darker lines look better too?
Hmmm... you guys may be on to something. How about this? The gray is more subtle than the white so now the focus is on the controls and the button names for the most part. The bend on the front lip starts at the bottom of the last line of text so the bottom of each box wraps a little bit.
(https://i.imgur.com/d0AoQYd.png)
EDIT: Looking at them side by side I like this newer version a lot better. Thanks!!
I'll get you some screen shots/walkthrough of the areas in the UI later today.
Thanks buddy - I can see the settings under General and Main tab in Rocketlauncher but I'm not sure what action to change. I guess it would be changing "ESC" on the keyboard to long press on "P" (with "P still being pause)?
Post by: Jimbo on September 01, 2020, 04:11:13 pm
Personally, I'd put the spinner back on there tho... ;)
Post by: yamatetsu on September 01, 2020, 05:08:14 pm
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=384482;image)
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=384483;image)
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=384484;image)
The last one is meant to go over the rounded edge and taper out towards the coin door.
Post by: javeryh on September 01, 2020, 07:34:22 pm
And now for something completely different.
The last one is meant to go over the rounded edge and taper out towards the coin door.
I tried racing stripes in one of my (not posted) iterations and couldn't get it to work but I wasn't going straight down the middle. You gave me an idea so I messed around a bit but I'm not sure I like it as much without the stripes. It's almost too fancy! Also, I'm a little concerned (in all of these designs without the spinner and trackball) that the joystick is too far from the buttons (7" from center of joystick to center of first button).
(https://i.imgur.com/jkFy8gs.png)
I have to say, going down the front with the stripes is a pretty cool idea. So many possibilities!
Post by: yamatetsu on September 02, 2020, 01:20:52 am
I tried racing stripes in one of my (not posted) iterations and couldn't get it to work but I wasn't going straight down the middle. You gave me an idea so I messed around a bit but I'm not sure I like it as much without the stripes. It's almost too fancy!
TBH, I think without the stripes or something, it's lacking something. Your version of the stripes is not so much in-your-face as mine, I like it. Think of that going over the edge a bit, or even down the front altogether... Ties the front with the CP, and gives you something to look at immediately.
As for the joystick being off: Mockup -> measurement transfer -> graphic design around those fix points. If it doesn't end up symmetrical, emphasize that it's asymmetrical (i. e. by moving the stripes to the right/left so that it's clearly off center).
So many possibilities!
Post by: Gilrock on September 02, 2020, 08:47:13 am
Post by: Arroyo on September 02, 2020, 09:36:10 am
Thanks buddy - I can see the settings under General and Main tab in Rocketlauncher but I'm not sure what action to change. I guess it would be changing "ESC" on the keyboard to long press on "P" (with "P still being pause)?
So here's the breakdown of using the same button for multiple things in RocketLauncher.
First you have open RocketLauncher. Make sure you have highlighted Global in the upper left-hand corner otherwise the settings you change will be on a per system basis (in your case no big deal as you are only using MAME I think). Click on the Settings green gear icon at the top, then click on the keyboard "A" image in the picture below:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=384487;image)
Next click on the Green + icon to add a button (or red X icon to delete), this will open up the menu to the right of it where you can choose which keyboard key will operate it:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=384488;image)
In the example below I will be setting the "P" button for a hold of 3 seconds to exit the emulator:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=384489;image)
Click the checkbox for Hold (as that's what we want in this case), then below type the amount of time (measured in milliseconds, so in this case 3000=3sec). Then click on the Camera icon image and then press the keyboard button (in this case "P").
You will then notice that the field next to the camera icon gets filled in. Alternatively once you do this enough times you can fill in the box without having to go through the steps above once you figure out the language (in the below H3000:P, is Hold for 3000 milliseconds on button "P"). Then click the floppy disk icon to save it:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=384490;image)
Now this will work with the default pause in MAME as P is pause, so a single press would pause the game, and then a 3 second hold will exit the game. HOWEVER, in my opinion there is a much better Pause built into RocketLauncher. The RocketLauncher Pause gives you all kinds of useful information: original manuals of games, cabinet pictures, control panel pictures, moves list for fighting games, history of the game, how many times and for how long the game has been played on your system. The list goes on.
If you want to check it out first you have to enable it:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=384491;image)
Then you have to choose what button launches it (oddly it is under General Settings, and not within the pause Tab, bad design in my opinion):
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=384492;image)
If you want to get a sense of what features can be added (this just shows the tip of the iceberg but is informative, just make it past the first 45 seconds), check out this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qYIlwVroIY
Post by: javeryh on September 02, 2020, 10:30:33 am
So here's the breakdown of using the same button for multiple things in RocketLauncher.
:notworthy:
Thanks bud - this is really awesome info. I was in the ballpark (had the right tab in RL) but not sure on exactly what to do to set it up.
Post by: yamatetsu on September 02, 2020, 10:58:50 am
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=384499;image)
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=384498;image)
Post by: Arroyo on September 02, 2020, 11:24:55 am
Thanks bud - this is really awesome info. I was in the ballpark (had the right tab in RL) but not sure on exactly what to do to set it up.
No problem. If it wasn't obvious, you can also use double tap, & triple tap as well. So really one button could have up to 4 functions. Single Tap, double tap, triple tap, & Hold. All for VERY different functions throughout the system. You can go nuts on the Pause info, all kinds of cool stuff you can throw in there.
Post by: javeryh on September 02, 2020, 05:11:01 pm
This is of course all kinds of wrong, but it still might give you an inkling how your cab might look like. Couldn't get the CPO on that board without seriously squishing it, so just pretend that it looks like the one you made.
Hmmm... do I have the balls for racing stripes all the way down the front of the cabinet? Not sure. When the marquee is lit, the front looks pretty cool as is. I'll probably print something out just to see before placing any orders.
So I think the final design is down to these two pending any last minute additions of a trackball or spinner (someone talk me into it!):
Click for full resolution
(https://i.imgur.com/UI9rhNW.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/F4i5kcY.png)
I made the racing stripes more proportional to the overall design and I cleaned up some alignment issues. I like the racing stripes but I also like the simplicity of the "plain" design - it's not flashy and will just kind of melt into the rest of the rather plain cabinet (which is a good thing, IMO).
Post by: Arroyo on September 02, 2020, 05:15:56 pm
As for the trackball spinner, what do you plan for the next cab? Maybe that can have either or both of those? I do like your previous integrations if you decided to added them.
Post by: Jimbo on September 02, 2020, 05:36:08 pm
Arkanoid 1&2
Super Sprint
Out Run
Pole Position
Chase HQ
Road Blasters
Tempest
Tac/Scan
Zektor
Hot Rod
Blasteroids
Hang On
Super Hang-On
Badlands
I use the trackball for: -
Star Wars and ESB (works surprisingly well)
Space Harrier (also works surprisingly well)
Marble Madness
Centipede
Missile Command
The spinner gets used a lot for sure. It's great for the driving games too. Trackball not so much, but still some use. But that's just me and the kids.
I guess if you can live without these (and probably others), then go with the controls you have. But following on from Arroyo, if you've got no plans for another cab then maybe consider them for this one. Personally I'd go spinner as there are more games you can play (inc driving games). Depends on your gaming preference though of course.
And I'm gonna try one last time to persuade you to ditch the instructions that nobody will read!!! >:D At least humour me, and try the stripes (maybe even with the atari flare like Arroyo suggested) without the instructions to see if you like it? :)
Post by: Zebidee on September 02, 2020, 10:12:51 pm
Gotta say that I love the racing stripes. I was GOING to say that the CP needs an element that draws the eye downward to make the best of that curved CP edge, but racing stripes work.
You'll notice that the cab in yamatetsu's signature has an extended stripe that continues from the CP all the way down to the foot of the cab. It is a nice look and visually ties everything in together.
I also want to emphasise that I think you can use a lot less words in your instructions, and then use a larger font - make it easier to read. Many words are wasted as the context is obvious. For example, "UP/DOWN select game" is enough. Wordsmithing is part of my trade and an axiom of mine is "Less is more".
Post by: yamatetsu on September 03, 2020, 02:42:46 am
I made the racing stripes more proportional to the overall design and I cleaned up some alignment issues. I like the racing stripes but I also like the simplicity of the "plain" design - it's not flashy and will just kind of melt into the rest of the rather plain cabinet (which is a good thing, IMO).
You can add a bit of understatement by making the stripes grey like in the 'how to play' box.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=384507;image)
Post by: J_K_M_A_N on September 03, 2020, 08:44:43 am
J_K_M_A_N
Post by: Mike A on September 03, 2020, 09:02:54 am
I don't like the stripes at all.
You have a screen, a marquee, a coin door, and a CP with graphics. You don't need anything more on the front of this cab.
Post by: jdbailey1206 on September 03, 2020, 09:41:34 am
I don't like the stripes at all.
Word. It's an arcade cabinet not a muscle car.
Post by: Drnick on September 03, 2020, 04:39:03 pm
Click for full resolution
(https://i.imgur.com/UI9rhNW.png)
My vote, not that it counts for anything = This one :) Save the racing stripes for a racer :)
Post by: Mike A on September 04, 2020, 07:51:09 am
Post by: Zebidee on September 05, 2020, 04:35:06 am
Do whatever you want @javeryh, looking great :cheers:
Post by: javeryh on September 05, 2020, 09:36:45 am
I really appreciate all of the input - it helps me work through the design and figure out what I like and don't like and how to make small improvements. I had the general idea when I started but making the outline of the instructions smaller and gray was a brilliant suggestion and adding arrows so the "How to Play" text wasn't just floating in the middle of nowhere really made the whole design come together. These are things I wouldn't have thought of on my own. I guess it is just the way I work...
I am nearing the final decision - only thing up in the air now is spinner or no spinner... I like the look of the spinner on the CP a lot more than I like it without but not including a spinner makes the cabinet 10% more comfortable to play (because you can stand completely centered instead of slightly off to the right when using the joystick).
Post by: Jimbo on September 05, 2020, 12:01:13 pm
Post by: jennifer on September 05, 2020, 12:27:01 pm
Post by: javeryh on September 05, 2020, 05:39:41 pm
I have to say - this is really comfortable and I’m liking the sparseness of the layout. The admin buttons are perfect too - proportion on the 24mm pause/exit button is great and the volcano buttons are super cool.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200905/6ab9dc567878a013047397bc63ea8ade.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200905/a7526a9ab4bea0533bdad1a38c51a2ce.jpg)
I placed the action buttons super close to each other - I didn’t think I’d have room underneath to attach the nuts but it all fits. I think we have a winner. I’m going to miss out on spinner games but I’ll have to make sure to include one in the next cab.
EDIT: here’s what it looks like in the cab:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200905/290b96e17b0c2b308e02d333bf81344f.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200905/3df7e38a246e18fb3771902156a80563.jpg)
Post by: J_K_M_A_N on September 05, 2020, 11:40:45 pm
J_K_M_A_N
Post by: Jimbo on September 06, 2020, 03:53:09 am
Are you squashing a load of vertical games into a horizontal monitor?
Reason I'm asking is I've just done the gamelist for my horizontal jamma cab and there were very few actual horizontal 1 player games with 3 or less buttons that I'd actually play. Most were 2 player games.
Post by: javeryh on September 06, 2020, 01:45:20 pm
You don't think you could fit a spinner right in the middle maybe just above the joystick location? I would think it could work and it looks like it would be far enough away from the buttons and joystick.
I can definitely fit the spinner - no question about it and I think it will look good. I just have to decide if I want it or not...
What games are you actually having on the cab?
Are you squashing a load of vertical games into a horizontal monitor?
Reason I'm asking is I've just done the gamelist for my horizontal jamma cab and there were very few actual horizontal 1 player games with 3 or less buttons that I'd actually play. Most were 2 player games.
yeah... this is kind of an issue. I have about 100 games on the list right now and lots of them are vertical so yes, I will have a bunch that I'm squashing on a horizontal monitor. I already have a vertical cabinet (1 button/4 way only) so it's not like I can't play those games but the 2 extra buttons and the 8-way stick really open things up.
I have a feeling you are saying I should add the spinner (which I don't have on any cab) so that I'll be able to play a bunch more horizontal games... not a terrible reason actually.
Post by: Jimbo on September 07, 2020, 03:43:52 am
What games are you actually having on the cab?
Are you squashing a load of vertical games into a horizontal monitor?
Reason I'm asking is I've just done the gamelist for my horizontal jamma cab and there were very few actual horizontal 1 player games with 3 or less buttons that I'd actually play. Most were 2 player games.
yeah... this is kind of an issue. I have about 100 games on the list right now and lots of them are vertical so yes, I will have a bunch that I'm squashing on a horizontal monitor. I already have a vertical cabinet (1 button/4 way only) so it's not like I can't play those games but the 2 extra buttons and the 8-way stick really open things up.
I have a feeling you are saying I should add the spinner (which I don't have on any cab) so that I'll be able to play a bunch more horizontal games... not a terrible reason actually.
ok... I'm gonna say it. It's been brooding and it's probably the last chance before you build the panel....
I'd drop the joystick completely and go for an asteroids + spinner layout. :o
Here's why: -
- You've built a stunning cabaret style cabinet. It looks very much like an asteroids cabaret and imo you should play to those strengths. There are a ton of great classic games that you could play with a button/spinner layout (space duel, asteroids, asteroids deluxe, eliminator, zektor, star castle, gravitar, major havoc, etc).
- This would also play to the VGA CRT's specs, in that vector games would look great on it using the AAE emulator.
- You've put a lot of effort getting a CRT installed, and even down to ensuring you have a switchable 4/8 way joystick, yet you're going to squash-cram a load of vertical games onto the already-smallish horizontal monitor. It's like you're going for authenticity with one hand then taking it away with the other. Keep the cab to horizontal games like it's physically designed for. You hinted at building another cab at some point - save the vertical games for that and do it properly! :)
- With the spinner there will be a load more driving games you get as a bonus.
- As a suggested layout, I'd go for something like: rotate left, rotate right (on the left), spinner and hyperspace button (in the middle), thrust and fire on the right.
- It might seem like you have less games, but the ones you have on there (it'll still be varied enough) you'll be able to play properly how they were designed to be played. Anyone can play those games with joystick and buttons... but it ain't nowhere near as good as using the proper controls.
This would really keep the authenticity on the cab, and make it much clearer what games are on it, what the cab is for etc. It'll look sweet and keep it perfectly in with the style of the cabaret.
Of course, this is just my opinion, and I realise it's late into the mix. In the end mate do what YOU want, as you'll be the one playing it.
That's what I'd do though... :)
Post by: javeryh on September 07, 2020, 12:30:31 pm
ok... I'm gonna say it. It's been brooding and it's probably the last chance before you build the panel....
I'd drop the joystick completely and go for an asteroids + spinner layout. :o
Here's why: -
- You've built a stunning cabaret style cabinet. It looks very much like an asteroids cabaret and imo you should play to those strengths. There are a ton of great classic games that you could play with a button/spinner layout (space duel, asteroids, asteroids deluxe, eliminator, zektor, star castle, gravitar, major havoc, etc).
- This would also play to the VGA CRT's specs, in that vector games would look great on it using the AAE emulator.
- You've put a lot of effort getting a CRT installed, and even down to ensuring you have a switchable 4/8 way joystick, yet you're going to squash-cram a load of vertical games onto the already-smallish horizontal monitor. It's like you're going for authenticity with one hand then taking it away with the other. Keep the cab to horizontal games like it's physically designed for. You hinted at building another cab at some point - save the vertical games for that and do it properly! :)
- With the spinner there will be a load more driving games you get as a bonus.
- As a suggested layout, I'd go for something like: rotate left, rotate right (on the left), spinner and hyperspace button (in the middle), thrust and fire on the right.
- It might seem like you have less games, but the ones you have on there (it'll still be varied enough) you'll be able to play properly how they were designed to be played. Anyone can play those games with joystick and buttons... but it ain't nowhere near as good as using the proper controls.
This would really keep the authenticity on the cab, and make it much clearer what games are on it, what the cab is for etc. It'll look sweet and keep it perfectly in with the style of the cabaret.
Of course, this is just my opinion, and I realise it's late into the mix. In the end mate do what YOU want, as you'll be the one playing it.
That's what I'd do though... :)
I totally get where you are coming from. I did strongly consider something like this in the beginning. I don't mind getting rid of the vertical games... but I think I am going to keep the joystick. You are right that I will be the one playing it... but so will the rest of the family and I'd hate to see it not get used because the games on it are so niche. I think your post did convince me to include the spinner though. I don't have one and some of the games you listed look like a lot of fun (in addition to the ones that I am familiar with). This also makes the control panel look a more balanced to me, which I like.
I will be cutting the gamelist down to the bare essentials with the chosen control scheme. No nonsense in the list (hopefully).
So barring any last second changes (totally possible heh) this is the "final" art (click to enlarge):
(https://i.imgur.com/agZSDom.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/q6tFzVn.png)
I'm leaning towards going with the joystick on the left. This will center the player in front of the cabinet most of the time. In the end I've also decided to go without the racing stripes. This looks plain to some I know but it looks elegant to me. Now... where can I find a white spinner knob... hmmm... :cheers:
Post by: Jimbo on September 07, 2020, 12:53:34 pm
Post by: J_K_M_A_N on September 07, 2020, 12:57:48 pm
J_K_M_A_N
Post by: javeryh on September 07, 2020, 05:28:09 pm
:cheers: a black spinner would look good too, if you can't find a white one!
I've got an old spinner top from a TurboTwist spinner that is all black so I'll use that with the SpinTrak I'm about to order (they are out of flywheels though grrr...). Another reason why the spinner should be centered - white balltop - black spinner - white buttons. It's more symmetrical.
That is a tough call on the joystick. When playing a game with buttons (probably most of them), having it on the left is perfect. When playing something like Pac Man or something with joystick only, centered is nicer. Most of what I play has at least one button so I would probably put the joystick on the left for that reason. :dunno
I agree - I think joy on the left will work fine though - I just realized that all of my other cabinets are set up this way so I'm sure it will be fine.
Thanks guys - I think I'm going with the Joystick-Spinner-Buttons layout. I'm placing the order tonight (finally)!
Post by: javeryh on September 28, 2020, 04:12:19 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200928/4f2ea8de6d55a93cbc4a81dd1adffcab.jpg)
The plan is to round over the edge of the blank, prime and sand it back to 220 or 400 and then apply the art, trim excess and drill the holes. Then install/wire everything.
Seems like this should only take an afternoon but that doesn’t count all the time spent staring at it and not moving...
Post by: Laythe on September 29, 2020, 06:16:24 pm
Seems like this should only take an afternoon but that doesn’t count all the time spent staring at it and not moving...
Haha, yeah, I think that time is essential. I do a lot of it too.
Sometimes, that's when I catch something I was about to do that would be stupid. I screw up a lot more stuff if I skip that "staring at it" step.
Post by: Arroyo on September 29, 2020, 06:37:44 pm
I know THAT feeling.
Post by: mountain on October 02, 2020, 09:25:52 pm
Post by: leapinlew on October 03, 2020, 12:25:19 am
Dude, long time! Someone recently sold one of your jukebox’s here.
Sites changed quite a bit. Definitely not as active. I put the final touches on my arcade and have been enjoying playing and not as much building.
As much as i look forward to what you might build, what I really want to know is what have you been building since 2015?
Post by: javeryh on October 03, 2020, 12:43:20 pm
Came back because i need to build something, so happy to see an old friend still at it. Looks great! :cheers:
Hey buddy - how have you been? Glad to see you are back - can't wait to watch you build something great. :cheers:
Post by: javeryh on October 04, 2020, 04:39:51 pm
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Post by: Laythe on October 04, 2020, 08:11:43 pm
I'm an idiot and I hate myself.... I didn't print my artwork large enough to accommodate wrapping over the edges. I have one extra inch all the way around so I will only have 1/4" of vinyl to wrap underneath the panel. I do not think over time it will stay down. I'm going to try though...
I made this exact mistake on Mimic.
What I ended up doing - which has worked over the long haul so far - was to wrap it as far as I could, and then - since it's the underside where it can't be seen - extend it with aluminum ducting tape, which has a pretty fierce bond strength. Not "duct tape" - I mean the metallic stuff, it's like thick aluminum foil with an aggressive adhesive.
You can see my tape job here (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=136713.0;attach=342629;image) - there's only about a 1/8" of vinyl artwork under my the control panel, you can see the step if you look close. All the shiny stuff is aluminum tape to hold it down and tight.
It worked for me, anyway.
Post by: bperkins01 on October 05, 2020, 07:18:50 am
Post by: jennifer on October 05, 2020, 07:35:09 am
Post by: javeryh on October 05, 2020, 08:50:37 am
I made this exact mistake on Mimic.
What I ended up doing - which has worked over the long haul so far - was to wrap it as far as I could, and then - since it's the underside where it can't be seen - extend it with aluminum ducting tape, which has a pretty fierce bond strength. Not "duct tape" - I mean the metallic stuff, it's like thick aluminum foil with an aggressive adhesive.
You can see my tape job here (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=136713.0;attach=342629;image) - there's only about a 1/8" of vinyl artwork under my the control panel, you can see the step if you look close. All the shiny stuff is aluminum tape to hold it down and tight.
It worked for me, anyway.
Thanks for this.
#1 - I have some of that aluminum tape on hand so I will definitely try using it.
#2 - If you made a mistake like this maybe not all is lost for me!
I used that aluminum tape when I decased my monitor on my LCD and mounted it to my bezel. It will work very nicely...
This is also good to know (for another project). I never liked how I mounted the decased monitor in Jack Attack! and after I finish this cab I'm going back to that project next to clean up the insides, install the t-molding and hopefully getting it working like I originally envisioned (I lost a lot of steam after finding out the hard way that rare earth magnets aren't strong enough to keep the CP from moving). I was also very frustrated with Retropie by the end there too. Maybe console games on a bartop aren't so bad... I don't know.
You could scan it, add a few inches and have it reprinted, It is not as hard as it sounds, A good print shop probibally even do it all.
Well yeah I could just reprint it... and if I did I'd probably change some colors since it didn't come out as bright as I had hoped but it's fine. I'll be thrilled to use what I've got and finish this project up.
Post by: javeryh on October 08, 2020, 11:04:58 am
:angry:
Post by: leapinlew on October 08, 2020, 05:15:43 pm
Post by: DaOld Man on October 08, 2020, 05:53:51 pm
but I really wish I had an extra inch or two.
I think we all have had that wish. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Post by: DaOld Man on October 08, 2020, 05:54:45 pm
So... no progress recently because of my gross finger. It hurts like a MFer - constant. This year has been rough. Started with slicing finger open and needing stitches. Then I tore the bottom of my foot and should have had stitches (couldn't run for 10 days) and then I pulled a hamstring in July that sidelined me for 2 weeks and now this. Worst stretch of my life. I'm falling apart!
:angry:
Ouch! How did that happen? Hammer invade finger space?
Post by: javeryh on October 08, 2020, 09:03:48 pm
Ouch! How did that happen? Hammer invade finger space?
Infected cuticle. It finally drained today but still hurts. I can’t do anything for at least a few more days. Also, it’s gross.
Post by: jdbailey1206 on October 09, 2020, 08:37:08 am
Post by: javeryh on December 04, 2020, 12:02:26 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/ppw1MBM.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/or7DpJc.jpg)
Been a slog to get to this point. The pandemic is really sucking the life out of me. Been super unmotivated to do anything other than work (because I have to) and eat and sleep.
Post by: morton on December 04, 2020, 06:41:42 pm
I too am chasing the woodgrain dragon, and it's projects like yours that made me decide to finally do it. Many thanks for the inspiration.
Post by: Arroyo on December 05, 2020, 07:49:45 am
Post by: Zebidee on December 05, 2020, 11:59:45 am
Post by: Jimbo on December 05, 2020, 04:43:24 pm
You didn't fancy drilling the holes in the CP before applying the CPO?
I'd be scared shitless of damaging the CPO by drilling through it!
Post by: javeryh on December 06, 2020, 05:37:15 pm
Looking good! Glad to see you're still going.
I too am chasing the woodgrain dragon, and it's projects like yours that made me decide to finally do it. Many thanks for the inspiration.
Thanks. The woodgrain is what makes this project for me as well. It just looks good in a room and doesn't really stick out too much.
Love this project. Finish’er off Javery, and don’t forgot about little old Jack Attack
Thanks Arroyo! Been creeping along... I have been thinking about Jack Attack too - I'm finishing that off before anything else. I ordered a new USB encoder and I am going to redo the insides - there's too much going on with power bricks and stuff and I don't like that I have to kind of push the back door closed to stuff it all in.
Too close to stop now!
yeah... my wife was asking if I ever plan on finishing any projects I start so I really need to finish this up. It's a problem.
Hey dude, looking good. I agree with the other posters - get it finished me'lad! :)
You didn't fancy drilling the holes in the CP before applying the CPO?
I'd be scared shitless of damaging the CPO by drilling through it!
LOL - it's actually easier to drill through the art if you use a forstner bit. You can align the artwork perfectly this way. I was still scared shitless though! So here are the results after drilling some holes today. It took forever because I had to make sure the depth from the back was exact for the volcano buttons.
(https://i.imgur.com/7q53GJ7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tmPRcO1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/SMXsMMX.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/vhstUZI.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/El7SymO.jpg)
So... what are people's thoughts about NOT recessing the joystick? I was planning on routing out about 1/4" of material so that the joystick would stick up through the panel a little more. It seems very short to me. But this creates some logistical difficulties because I would not only have to recess the joystick mounting plate, I'd also have to recess an area for the motor for the ServoStik. What do you guys do to solve this issue? Is there something obvious I'm missing like ordering a longer joystick shaft or something?
Post by: UnclearHermit on December 06, 2020, 07:11:41 pm
Panel looks great, by the way.
Post by: javeryh on December 06, 2020, 07:45:04 pm
Hard to say with a view from above. Is it comfortable? I’m particularly interested because I’ve got a Servostik to mount soon in 5/8” MDF and am also wondering about need to recess. Presumably you’ve got full stick movement so it’s not like you’re recessing to sort that. So I can’t see what else matters other than how it feels. Out of interest, what size is that joystick hole drilled?
Panel looks great, by the way.
Thanks.
It's not bad... but it's a little short. Throw is not an issue - I have full range. I drilled a 24mm hole (same bit as I used for the black button in the top right corner). I think I know I should recess it by 1/4" but I was hoping someone had a clever solution like a longer joystick shaft or something?
I think 5/8" would be fine for you - still a little short but that extra 1/8" is a huge deal. If I had 5/8" thick panel I'd probably just live with it.
Post by: UnclearHermit on December 08, 2020, 08:35:18 am
https://www.ultimarc.com/arcade-controls/joystick-accessories/ultrastik-360-long-handle-shaft/
Post by: javeryh on December 08, 2020, 11:05:17 am
There's a longer shaft available, which would give you another 10mm without routing:
https://www.ultimarc.com/arcade-controls/joystick-accessories/ultrastik-360-long-handle-shaft/
Wow thanks. I am ordering now. It might make the throw a little weird since the center point will be lower than usual (by only 1/4" so not that much) but I'm sure I'll get used to it. I was looking for an excuse to order a spinner top so I guess I'll do that too - I just wish I could get one in white.
Post by: morton on December 08, 2020, 03:24:09 pm
This is the third time in as many days I have read mention of the longer shafts being used on thicker control panels. I was initially torn on what to do in my situation and think I may consider the same. It definitely would ensure minimal risk in damaging the work you've already done. My only question in regard to the longer shaft it... Does the stick length really affect throw feel much in games?
Post by: javeryh on December 08, 2020, 03:47:58 pm
That's a beauty control panel. The whole thing is minimalist whilst still packing a lot of abilities. The art is perfectly balanced with it all.
This is the third time in as many days I have read mention of the longer shafts being used on thicker control panels. I was initially torn on what to do in my situation and think I may consider the same. It definitely would ensure minimal risk in damaging the work you've already done. My only question in regard to the longer shaft it... Does the stick length really affect throw feel much in games?
Thanks - really appreciate the nice comments. So far, the whole project is coming out exactly like I see it in my head...
I have never used a longer shaft on any joystick but the more I thought about it, the more it made sense to give it a shot. I was planning on routing out 1/4" max from behind the panel. That isn't a lot at all but I couldn't go any deeper or else the 4 screws might not hold or they might accidentally poke through the art (which would make me nuts). So 1/4" is all of the height I'd be gaining. That's nothing.
The longer shaft adds 10mm or approximately 3/8". I don't think the throw will feel all that different. Maybe it will but I'm giving it a shot. Worst case scenario is that I end up routing out the material but I would really have to hate it. I ordered from Andy this morning - I just hope it gets here soon!
Post by: javeryh on December 10, 2020, 07:07:32 pm
1. Install joystick
2. Wire everything
3. Figure out how to attach CP to cabinet.
4. Order and install 1/4" tinted glass
5. Turn coin return into pushbutton
6. Figure out where to put volume knob from speakers
7. Final tweaks to computer (boot up, hide windows, etc.)
I'm sure there is more I'm not thinking of but this is basically the punch list. Anyone have any recommendations for a decent glass shop that will cut to a custom size and not charge an arm and a leg?
Post by: leapinlew on December 10, 2020, 11:46:31 pm
Post by: wp34 on December 11, 2020, 01:47:14 pm
I'm sure there is more I'm not thinking of but this is basically the punch list. Anyone have any recommendations for a decent glass shop that will cut to a custom size and not charge an arm and a leg?
I used onedayglass.com for my Tron cabinet. It wasn't cheap but I'm really happy with the results.
Post by: javeryh on December 13, 2020, 04:10:45 pm
No suggestions for online glass since I have always used a local shop. I’m curious what your local shop vs online shop research pulls up.
I'll let you know. I vaguely remember ordering some glass from eBay that was really cheap but I can't remember where and it's so long ago that it's not showing up in my order history.
That CP looks fantastic javeryh! The white really pops.
I used onedayglass.com for my Tron cabinet. It wasn't cheap but I'm really happy with the results.
Thanks! I'll check that place out once I have good measurements.
I've been installing the joystick and wiring stuff while I watch football today. Taking me forever because I needed to make sure the joystick was dead center. I'm down to just button/joystick wiring but I also need to figure out how to wire the LEDs in the volcano buttons. Anyone know if I can pull enough power from the iPac2 and also where run the wires?
Post by: javeryh on December 13, 2020, 05:22:04 pm
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=385727;image)
I think I'm going to run 2 separate ground daisy chains - the joystick and buttons are on opposite sides of the iPAC2 and it's easier to not have wires crossing all over the place. If I can get this fully wired tomorrow I should have a playable cabinet by the end of the week.
One thing that's been bugging me is how I'm going to get the control panel attached to the cabinet without moving. I do not want to drill through the top but there's less room underneath than I had initially thought - I was going to add some extra cocktail cabinet spring clips on the inside but I'm not sure there is enough room. Need to think on this some more.
Post by: javeryh on December 13, 2020, 08:05:06 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201214/b730c5c1fa1964527be69bdc80f840e6.jpg)
I am pretty sure the three thin prongs are NC, NO and GRD from left to right so I would connect NO and GRD like any other push button switch.
I am also pretty sure two flat prongs attached to the rivets are for the LED but I have no idea how to wire this up. Arcade Shop says that “Button includes a 6.8k resistor” and I do not know what that means. In my research other similar buttons (but not exact) require 2V to power and people say that if you just hook it up to 5V source you will fry the LED. If that is the case, what do I need to step down the voltage (assuming I can draw 5V from the iPAC2?
Surely someone around here has used one of these buttons before...
EDIT: here's a pic from the Arcade Shop site:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201214/f76758808d09a7f62d61f726adc27aed.jpg)
The stamp on it says 5A250V if that helps.
Post by: PL1 on December 13, 2020, 11:19:48 pm
I am also pretty sure two flat prongs attached to the rivets are for the LED but I have no idea how to wire this up. Arcade Shop says that “Button includes a 6.8k resistor” and I do not know what that means. In my research other similar buttons (but not exact) require 2V to power and people say that if you just hook it up to 5V source you will fry the LED. If that is the case, what do I need to step down the voltage (assuming I can draw 5V from the iPAC2?What you need is a 220 Ohm (or 160 Ohm), 1/4 Watt (or 1/8 or 1/2 Watt -- smaller wattage ==> thinner leads) current limiting resistor between 5v and the LED+ terminal.
If you connect LED- to ground, it will be always-on.
If you connect LED- to an LED controller and run a program like LEDBlinky, it will blink.
The only thing I'm not certain about is if the LED+ and LED- are swapped in this diagram.
- If they are, LMK and I'll update the diagram accordingly.
- You can test this using the diode check function on your multimeter. When the polarity is correct, the LED will light dimly.
Scott
Post by: Arroyo on December 13, 2020, 11:28:41 pm
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,156267.msg1644624.html#msg1644624 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,156267.msg1644624.html#msg1644624)
Post by: PL1 on December 14, 2020, 12:54:57 am
I believe that Javery is correct and these are 2V LED’s. At least the originals were. I discussed building a voltage divider for the ones I used on the flight stick in my thread to bring the 5V down to 2V:The 220 ohm resistor acts like R1 and the LED acts like R2 in your voltage divider diagram.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,156267.msg1644624.html#msg1644624 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,156267.msg1644624.html#msg1644624)
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=149895.0;attach=365621;image)
How did I know that a 220 Ohm resistor would work for this application?
How I do it:
Wire in a 220 resistor on the line going to 5v. Crimp on a quick disconnect.
Attach the QD to the + end of the Atari button LED terminal.
Hook up the other end to ground.
Turn the machine on, see the red lit button.
No worries.
Never burned out a LED button with the resistor connected.
Scott
Post by: javeryh on December 15, 2020, 01:31:42 pm
What you need is a 220 Ohm (or 160 Ohm), 1/4 Watt (or 1/8 or 1/2 Watt -- smaller wattage ==> thinner leads) current limiting resistor between 5v and the LED+ terminal.
I believe that Javery is correct and these are 2V LED’s. At least the originals were. I discussed building a voltage divider for the ones I used on the flight stick in my thread to bring the 5V down to 2V:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,156267.msg1644624.html#msg1644624 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,156267.msg1644624.html#msg1644624)
Thanks guys. So if I buy THESE (https://www.amazon.com/EDGELEC-Resistor-Tolerance-Multiple-Resistance/dp/B07QK9ZBVZ/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=220+ohm+resistor+%28one%29&qid=1608055316&sr=8-3) (100 LOL - I only need 2 max) I should be OK?
I would like to somehow pull the power from the iPAC2 - there are two trackball connections that I will not be using and there are pins labeled 5V. Could I use those for the LEDs?
(https://i.imgur.com/6j0sO1N.jpg)
I would run a wire from iPAC2 5V pin to the resistor and then the resistor to the positive side of the volcano button LED leads. I would run a separate wire from the negative side of the volcano button LED leads to the player 2 GND terminal on the iPAC2 (for ground). I realize this would mean as long as there is power to the iPAC2 the LED lights will be on. Would this work?
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=385750;image)
Also, which side of the resistor goes where? I assume it matters how it gets connected as it will be stepping down the voltage.
Sorry if this is ridiculously basic stuff... ;D
Post by: PL1 on December 15, 2020, 04:55:48 pm
So if I buy THESE (https://www.amazon.com/EDGELEC-Resistor-Tolerance-Multiple-Resistance/dp/B07QK9ZBVZ/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=220+ohm+resistor+%28one%29&qid=1608055316&sr=8-3) (100 LOL - I only need 2 max) I should be OK?They are a bit of overkill, but those will work fine.
Each LED and resistor pair are only going to draw a total of about 20 mA so that's 100mW -- around 60mW for the resistor and around 40 mW for the LED.
(Watts = V * A ==> W = 5v * 20mA ==> 100mW)
Same resistor in a 1/4 W size:
https://www.amazon.com/EDGELEC-Resistor-Tolerance-Multiple-Resistance/dp/B07QK9ZBVZ/ (https://www.amazon.com/EDGELEC-Resistor-Tolerance-Multiple-Resistance/dp/B07QK9ZBVZ/)
An assortment pack will cover many future projects as well:
https://www.amazon.com/McIgIcM-resistor-Electronics-resistors-assortment/dp/B06WRQS97C/ (https://www.amazon.com/McIgIcM-resistor-Electronics-resistors-assortment/dp/B06WRQS97C/)
https://www.amazon.com/Resistors-Assortment-Tolerance-Excellently-Breadboards/dp/B07D2Z45CG/ (https://www.amazon.com/Resistors-Assortment-Tolerance-Excellently-Breadboards/dp/B07D2Z45CG/)
I would like to somehow pull the power from the iPAC2 - there are two trackball connections that I will not be using and there are pins labeled 5V. Could I use those for the LEDs?Yes. Those pins are designed to power the two LEDs of a trackball/spinner axis so they are perfect for this application.
I would run a wire from iPAC2 5V pin to the resistor and then the resistor to the positive side of the volcano button LED leads. I would run a separate wire from the negative side of the volcano button LED leads to the player 2 GND terminal on the iPAC2 (for ground). I realize this would mean as long as there is power to the iPAC2 the LED lights will be on. Would this work?Yes, you can either do it that way or you can connect one 5v line to the left side of both resistors in your diagram.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=385750;image)
Also, which side of the resistor goes where? I assume it matters how it gets connected as it will be stepping down the voltage.There's no +/- polarity to a resistor so you can't install it backward. ;D
You may also want to use heat shrink like steps 1-3 here (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,134781.msg1542677.html#msg1542677) . . .
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=147492.0;attach=336741;image)
. . . and QDs like smalltownguy did here (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,88685.msg956528.html#msg956528).
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f66/smalltownguy2/IMG_6323.jpg)
Scott
Post by: javeryh on December 15, 2020, 06:01:06 pm
Post by: Jimbo on December 16, 2020, 03:36:32 am
Scott - thank you for taking the time to provide such a detailed response. I just ordered the resistors and I'm looking forward to making this work! I have some shrink tubing so I will also try to make it as neat as possible. I should be able to finish the wiring this weekend. I'd love to have this playable but Christmas! :cheers:
Aah the Christmas arcadey rush... I know it well ;)
Good luck getting it finished mate.
Post by: Zebidee on December 20, 2020, 03:03:45 pm
Plug the values into this calculator, 5v power, 2v LED, 20mA current and you'll get 150R for resistor required:
https://ohmslawcalculator.com/led-resistor-calculator
You might find that with 220 ohms the LED doesn't light at all because it doesn't let enough current through. I tried 200R with a ~2v LED just a few weeks ago and it only lit for a moment before puffing out, changed to 150R and all was good.
Post by: PL1 on December 21, 2020, 04:47:13 am
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,164190.0.html (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,164190.0.html)
Everyone else, we now return you to javeryh's regularly scheduled thread. ;D
Scott
Post by: javeryh on December 21, 2020, 12:04:05 pm
Post by: javeryh on December 21, 2020, 04:09:20 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201221/c6d4375956e5c979006b6ff594e5accc.jpg)
Slow moving but after this is done I could have a functioning cabinet... if I figure out how to attach the CP to it.
Post by: javeryh on December 22, 2020, 05:15:35 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201222/a47c446aadfdb1b7326aa51c57f34ae7.jpg)
The Trackball area on the iPAC2 has 4 pins. One is labeled 5V and one is GND. I have an extra cable laying around that I think could work:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201222/42de67a4a33e885f52000872087cb333.jpg)
As long as I keep the wires straight, is it OK to cut this wire in half and use one of the four wires for 5V and one other wire for GND both going to the LED? This would leave the wires labeled X1 and X2 to go nowhere...
Basically, I want to use this wire to connect to the iPAC2 because I don’t know how to do it otherwise. The connector would cover all 4 pins on the iPAC2 where it says Trackball but 2 of the wires would not be used. I’d splice in the resistor and the crimp connectors as originally planned on the other end.
Will this work?
Post by: Zebidee on December 22, 2020, 10:42:42 pm
Basically, I want to use this wire to connect to the iPAC2 because I don’t know how to do it otherwise. The connector would cover all 4 pins on the iPAC2 where it says Trackball but 2 of the wires would not be used. I’d splice in the resistor and the crimp connectors as originally planned on the other end.
Will this work?
I expect it to work fine given you're only drawing 40mA/100mW, which is comparable to what a trackball might draw so should be rated OK for that.
Post by: PL1 on December 23, 2020, 02:58:31 am
I am now finally ready to wire the LEDs... will this work?Yes.
That type of connector usually mates with a polarized connector so you can't plug it in backward, but it should work perfectly fine on the IPac pins.
One thing that you might consider doing is if the 5v wire isn't red and/or isn't clearly visible, you might want to put a dot of red paint or fingernail polish on the connector housing by the 5v pin (or a green dot by ground) as a reminder which way the connector goes.
Scott
Post by: javeryh on December 23, 2020, 04:21:20 pm
I expect it to work fine given you're only drawing 40mA/100mW, which is comparable to what a trackball might draw so should be rated OK for that.
Yes.
That type of connector usually mates with a polarized connector so you can't plug it in backward, but it should work perfectly fine on the IPac pins.
One thing that you might consider doing is if the 5v wire isn't red and/or isn't clearly visible, you might want to put a dot of red paint or fingernail polish on the connector housing by the 5v pin (or a green dot by ground) as a reminder which way the connector goes.
Thanks guys. One last thing... can I wire these two LEDs in parallel? So I'd only need one resistor. Go from iPAC2 GND to ground on BUTTON 1 to ground on BUTTON 2 and then from iPAC2 5V to 220 ohm resistor to + on BUTTON 1 to + on BUTTON 2. Or do I need to actually wire the + on BUTTON 1 and BUTTON 2 separately?
Like this...
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201223/c310c81e305136782409827f9b219e49.jpg)
Post by: PL1 on December 23, 2020, 06:45:47 pm
can I wire these two LEDs in parallel? So I'd only need one resistor.That configuration makes it a series-parallel circuit instead of two parallel circuits.
A guy on Stackexchange asked about a setup using one resistor to feed parallel LEDs.
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/164370/9x-1w-leds-parallel-series-resistor-calculation-help-needed (https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/164370/9x-1w-leds-parallel-series-resistor-calculation-help-needed)
Quote
Manufacturing tolerances might make one LED draw a wide range of currents for a fixed voltage applied to its terminals. If you applied another LED in parallel one LED might take virtually all the current whilst the 2nd LED took virtually zero - this is the problem of not using a seperate resistor for each string of LEDs.
Best practice is to use one resistor per parallel branch so you get consistant current which will give you consistant brightness.
You can either wire it like below or daisy-chain one 5v line to the left side of the two resistors the same way you daisy-chain ground to the right side of the LEDs.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=385750;image)
Scott
Post by: javeryh on December 23, 2020, 07:21:54 pm
can I wire these two LEDs in parallel? So I'd only need one resistor.That configuration makes it a series-parallel circuit instead of two parallel circuits.
A guy on Stackexchange asked about a setup using one resistor to feed parallel LEDs.
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/164370/9x-1w-leds-parallel-series-resistor-calculation-help-needed (https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/164370/9x-1w-leds-parallel-series-resistor-calculation-help-needed)QuoteManufacturing tolerances might make one LED draw a wide range of currents for a fixed voltage applied to its terminals. If you applied another LED in parallel one LED might take virtually all the current whilst the 2nd LED took virtually zero - this is the problem of not using a seperate resistor for each string of LEDs.
Best practice is to use one resistor per parallel branch so you get consistant current which will give you consistant brightness.
You can either wire it like below or daisy-chain one 5v line to the left side of the two resistors the same way you daisy-chain ground to the right side of the LEDs.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=385750;image)
Scott
OK got it. I'm just trying to figure out how to do this in the most practical way - connecting to the pin on the iPAC2 is kind of a pain. Seems like my original pic is best but if I'm understanding you correctly, I could also do it like this as well?
(https://i.imgur.com/svOezza.png)
The extra resistor is no big deal - they are so tiny though! I have some shrink tube and solder that will hopefully hold it all together (and not melt).
The wire I'm using that I posted above is VERY thin once I cut it open (only 2 wires too - Red, which is going to 5V and white, which is going to GND). There was also strands of wire in between the white and red covered wires, which I assume is what is used to connect X1 and X2 but it seemed weird to me.
Post by: Zebidee on December 23, 2020, 07:48:00 pm
recycling old cables is always a bit of a mystery tour. Sometimes it is great, sometimes not so great.
To make things easy for yourself, you could try getting some "arduino wires" for this kind of thing. They come in different colours with male/female ends already attached. They can be easily separated from the "ribbons" of wires. Great for 5v project applications. Like these:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001769657025.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.7f14377fbVavbk&algo_pvid=8076956e-0a85-4fb8-b71c-bd36cc26a824&algo_expid=8076956e-0a85-4fb8-b71c-bd36cc26a824-5&btsid=0b0a555c16087706106626359eba49&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_
Post by: PL1 on December 23, 2020, 09:06:27 pm
OK got it. I'm just trying to figure out how to do this in the most practical way - connecting to the pin on the iPAC2 is kind of a pain. Seems like my original pic is best but if I'm understanding you correctly, I could also do it like this as well?Yes.
(https://i.imgur.com/svOezza.png)
One easy way to connect the 5v line to two resistors is to strip and tin the wire, bend a hook in the wire end, then bend hooks in the leads of two resistors and solder all three hooks together in a Y-shape -- like this, but with two resistors instead of one.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=147492.0;attach=336737;image)
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=147492.0;attach=336739;image)
Then you can solder a wire to the other end of each resistor and add a 0.110" QD for the LED+ tab.
The wire I'm using that I posted above is VERY thin once I cut it open (only 2 wires too - Red, which is going to 5V and white, which is going to GND). There was also strands of wire in between the white and red covered wires, which I assume is what is used to connect X1 and X2 but it seemed weird to me.That might be a shielded audio cable for a CD or DVD drive. :dunno
Dupont jumpers like the ones Zebidee linked to are very handy and easy to work with.
- Use a F-F jumper.
- Pull the housing off one end.
- Push the resistor lead thru the pin (see attached pic), bend the lead so there's a good mechanical connection between the lead and pin, then solder the lead to the pin.
Since the jumpers are cheap and plantiful, it might be easier to run four separate lines instead of daisy-chaining the 5v lines and daisy-chaining the grounds.
Scott
Post by: Zebidee on December 23, 2020, 10:26:06 pm
I like Scott's way better (two pairs of 5v + GND lines) because stronger connection and you can different colours for the 5v lead to each LED. So long as you have the extra 5v connections on your IPAC. Otherwise daisychaining is fine too.
It is all the same parallel circuit we've shown you in various forms as the 5v rail will be connected at the IPAC anyway.
Post by: javeryh on December 24, 2020, 02:47:51 pm
https://youtu.be/cbdkD6KHzvg
Any help at this point would be appreciated... I literally have no idea what to try next to turn these LEDs on.
I made 2 separate runs from the two 5V pins on the iPAC2 to what I think is + on the volcano button with the 220 ohm resistor soldered in-line for each wire. Then I daisy chained the ground wires and ran that back to GND on the iPAC2. I plugged the iPAC2 in and the green light came on so it has power but the LEDs did not light up as expected. Do I need to tell the iPAC2 to provide power to those pins in software or something?
Thanks guys. :cheers:
Post by: PL1 on December 24, 2020, 05:06:33 pm
First step, test the LEDs and confirm the polarity.
- Remove power to the panel -- the multimeter will provide power for this test.
- Set your multimeter to diode test.
- Touch the leads to the LED tabs.
-- If the leads are backward, the LED won't light.
-- If you swap leads and the LED still won't light, either the LED is bad or you're on the wrong tabs.
-- If you have the correct polarity and the LED is good, it will light dimly. (make a note of the voltage displalyed on the meter)
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=385835;image)
Next step is to check if the LED is getting enough voltage to forward bias.
- Set the meter to VDC.
- Restore power to the panel.
- Touch the leads to the LED tabs to test how much voltage is dropped across the LED. Compare that voltage to the voltage during the diode test.
-- If the voltage is lower than during the diode test, you need a lower value current limiting resistor so the LED gets enough voltage to forward bias.
Use a calculator like this one (https://ohmslawcalculator.com/led-resistor-calculator) that Zebidee linked earlier.
- Fill in 3 of these 4 values and click on calculate.
- Voltage source = 5v
- Voltage drop from LED = voltage from the diode test
- Current through the LED = usually between 15 and 20 mA
- Resistance = current limiting resistor value
Scott
Post by: jennifer on December 24, 2020, 06:29:54 pm
Post by: Zebidee on December 24, 2020, 09:46:07 pm
Make sure you have the polarity of the LEDs right. Long lead/anode to the voltage, short lead/cathode to ground.
Double-check that the GND you are using is connected to the GND on the trackball socket you are getting your 5v from (continuity test). However I expect they are.
Also, ... even though they worked for someone else, 220R for the resistors IMO is marginally viable and might be too high for your particular case. Try 150R if you have them. Even small variations in manufacturing or voltage available from your PC/PSU/IPAC could be enough to make the difference between the LED working in one case and not working in another.
Merry Christmas!!
Post by: javeryh on December 25, 2020, 02:32:00 pm
Post by: Zebidee on December 25, 2020, 08:08:44 pm
Post by: jennifer on December 26, 2020, 05:37:34 pm
Post by: Zebidee on December 26, 2020, 10:50:48 pm
I am not so sure about the dollar store meters, There are alot of functions one can play with on modern DMMs, such as diode tester, and continuity, Not that you need a all high end Fluke... Radio Shack, and Craftsman make nice budget models.
Yes should be able to get something pretty decent for $50 or so, depends on your budget and needs. The Fluke 17B+ is about $150-180 which is certainly not cheap, but it is very nice to use and more aimed at hobbyists. Some of their other affordable models are more aimed at electricians. In particular it has a good milliamps function (mA) which is something you should look for, but then even my cheap $10 yellow DMM can do that reasonably well so really no need to splash too much cash on your first one.
Post by: PL1 on December 26, 2020, 11:38:34 pm
- Alligator clips
- Micrograbbers
- Sharp point leads for poking through conformal coating
This inexpensive set has a good variety.
https://www.amazon.com/Electrical-Multimeter-Alligator-Probes-Professional/dp/B074L1NXRX/ (https://www.amazon.com/Electrical-Multimeter-Alligator-Probes-Professional/dp/B074L1NXRX/)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61UTFzQZxpL._AC_SX522_.jpg)
Scott
Post by: javeryh on December 27, 2020, 01:49:20 pm
OK so all I had to do was switch the + and - on the LED leads and that did it. So the reference photo floating around here had it backwards at least for the reproduction from arcadeshop.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201227/b6985014e4771268c9f9e529ac348dc3.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201227/0562617540f9badf26f7a93da35ead08.jpg)
I’m super psyched. Now I need to figure out how to attach the CP to the cabinet without drilling through the top. I’m hoping some cocktail clips will work but the problem will be getting my hand up through the coin door for access.
I’m getting really close now... oh yeah- I have a clear dust washer for the joystick that I want to make black. Do you think if I spray painted the bottom it would appear uniform?
Post by: Arroyo on December 27, 2020, 02:02:06 pm
Post by: javeryh on December 27, 2020, 02:05:10 pm
Looks great buddy, nice work!
LOL thanks - I'm pretty sure lighting these two buttons are one of my greatest accomplishments in this stupid hobby. :cheers:
Post by: PL1 on December 27, 2020, 02:24:40 pm
OK so all I had to do was switch the + and - on the LED leads and that did it. So the reference photo floating around here had it backwards at least for the reproduction from arcadeshop.. . . and that's why everyone in this hobby should have multimeter. :P
Glad you got the LEDs working. ;D
Scott
Post by: Zebidee on December 27, 2020, 04:11:37 pm
Looks great buddy, nice work!
LOL thanks - I'm pretty sure lighting these two buttons are one of my greatest accomplishments in this stupid hobby. :cheers:
:w00t
Post by: javeryh on December 28, 2020, 10:19:31 am
OK so all I had to do was switch the + and - on the LED leads and that did it. So the reference photo floating around here had it backwards at least for the reproduction from arcadeshop.. . . and that's why everyone in this hobby should have multimeter. :P
Glad you got the LEDs working. ;D
Looks great buddy, nice work!
LOL thanks - I'm pretty sure lighting these two buttons are one of my greatest accomplishments in this stupid hobby. :cheers:
:w00t
Thanks to the two of you walking me through it. Could not have done it otherwise. :cheers:
Post by: vertexguy on December 30, 2020, 04:03:12 pm
Now you're making me want to reconsider them again.... although last I looked they were still pricey. Keep it up!
Post by: bperkins01 on December 30, 2020, 04:19:15 pm
Love the cab!
Post by: lettuce on December 31, 2020, 11:30:09 am
Ingenious idea with the marquee placement!. I was thinking similar for my build but having it on the top panel of the cab (so its facing the main monitor)
Post by: javeryh on January 04, 2021, 12:58:38 pm
Those are looking great! I originally debated putting volcano buttons on mine for the system controls area.
Now you're making me want to reconsider them again.... although last I looked they were still pricey. Keep it up!
Thanks - the volcano buttons are super pricey but worth it, I think. They really look sharp and at least for this project I think they really complete the look I was going for (Asteroids).
Nice clean work sir - very well executed.
Love the cab!
Thanks! Keeping it clean was a major goal. Slow and steady...
Loving the build, im wanting to build a lowboy style type cab as well.
Ingenious idea with the marquee placement!. I was thinking similar for my build but having it on the top panel of the cab (so its facing the main monitor)
Thanks. Form factor is really great. It looks tiny but doesn't feel that way when standing in front of it. The marquee (and really this whole project) wasn't my idea. Others have done something similar (much better too).
:cheers:
Post by: markc74 on January 04, 2021, 03:31:17 pm
And now I miss it... (sad face)
Post by: ivwshane on January 04, 2021, 11:43:35 pm
Post by: javeryh on January 06, 2021, 05:38:10 pm
Really liking how this is turning out. The volcano buttons definitely take it up a notch. I actually had some volcano buttons for mine but never got around to fitting them before I sold it.
And now I miss it... (sad face)
Build another! Would probably take you like 2 weeks instead of a year like my builds do. I like the profile on this one so much that I made a template and kept it. I think I want to build another for some family members at some point in the future. I'll simplify it - LCD, no dynamic marquee, etc. but it seems like something people could put in the family room and it wouldn't look out of place with the woodgrain and the small size.
Damn! Javeryh is still in the scene making yet another system?!! Nice! Your builds are always top notch and a joy to follow.
Thanks! I don't think I'll ever really leave. I have this idea in my head of trying to do 1 build per year. I really love the process and it gives me something to do.
Post by: javeryh on January 07, 2021, 03:25:10 pm
I've been staring at this for the better part of 2 weeks and I'm a bit paralyzed from doing anything since I really only get one shot at it. The design allows for the control panel to rest on 3/4" thick strips of wood that will be installed on the sides of the cabinet. I am trying to figure out a way to make it secure (but still removeable).
Here is a shot of basically where the wooden support will be:
(https://i.imgur.com/gtYFFn9.jpg)
And here is what it would look like from the bottom of the CP. There's not much wiggle room.
(https://i.imgur.com/VSqAYw0.jpg)
What I have been planning is to use some extra cocktail table clips but I am having second thoughts. These clips would pull the CP down to the wooden support strips but not necessarily prevent the CP from sliding back and forth during play. Also, due to the tight space, the hardware for the clips would need to be installed under some of the wiring and it might be difficult to operate (still probably doable) as you can see here:
(https://i.imgur.com/kEdpRtG.jpg)
Is this a viable solution? Once I work this out, I'm pretty much finished - just have to install the computer and wire up the coin door, speakers, etc. I'm open to suggestions if there is something easy I'm overlooking...
EDIT: I've also tried rare earth magnets for this purpose on my mini bartop and it didn't work... which is kind of why I never finished that thing 100%.
:cheers:
Post by: markc74 on January 07, 2021, 03:45:13 pm
Post by: jennifer on January 07, 2021, 04:44:42 pm
Post by: jennifer on January 07, 2021, 04:58:56 pm
Post by: jennifer on January 07, 2021, 05:16:30 pm
Post by: Zebidee on January 07, 2021, 06:00:28 pm
This is an example of what I mean by toggle clamps. Lever gets mounted to side of cabinet, hook onto CP. You push lever down to secure, pull it up to release. I have another version on my old cabs but can't find a link to them new anywhere, might be too old or whatever.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038641642.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.23313af5lQ1LrG&algo_pvid=2fcd4ee8-ed99-4c40-9436-238d2364b963&algo_expid=2fcd4ee8-ed99-4c40-9436-238d2364b963-22&btsid=0bb0620316100598159594460e09f8&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_
Post by: yamatetsu on January 08, 2021, 11:28:17 am
Velcro? You might need to staple it to the wood though just to stop it peeling off.
Seconded. I bought a strip of velcro in a DIY store and used it on my Pinup CP. That thing doesn't move a bit, it is even a bit difficult to get it off the battens. If the velcro peels off, just replace it.
Another option would be using dowels. Sand the upper halves of the dowels a bit so that the CP can't move but you can still pull it off easily.
Post by: javeryh on January 10, 2021, 10:36:08 am
Velcro was something floating around in my head and the reason I didn't think it would work is not because of strength but because of getting the CP to sit exactly where I want it to sit and also level since velcro can be (slightly) compressed. It is important that the front lip of the CP sit as close as possible to the front face of the cabinet so the roundover looks clean (it won't look 100% clean due to the difference between laminate front and polycarbonite CPO being slightly different shades of black). If I used velcro, I'd have to lower the CP support battons by the thickness of the velcro. Probably not a huge deal, right? I wish there was a way to test this before committing.
Dowels are another really cool idea that never crossed my mind... I'm not sure I have the skills to make it all line up though. I'd have to be PERFECT with the holes both underneath the CP (with only 1/2" to grab into) and also the battons. This would prevent sliding but maybe not pulling up (although pulling up on the CP during play is not really a concern).
The toggle clamps are exactly my original idea and what I was planning all along. These are the ones I have on hand:
(https://twistedquarter.com/images/CONTROL%20PANEL%20CLAMP%20II.jpg)
Getting everything lined up will be tricky, but not impossible (I think). The main issue is getting the clips in exactly the right place on the inside of the cabinet. I am reasonably sure the pressure of the clamps pulling down will be enough so stop the CP from sliding forwards or backwards (and actually forwards will be impossible once the glass is installed over the monitor). Angle brackets seem like a variation on the toggle clamps so we are on the same page there.
Still not sure. Probably a toss up between the toggle clamps and the velcro. I'll start with the toggle clamps and if I can't get it just right I will try the velcro.
I think today is the day... it was going to be yesterday but instead I watched 9 hours of football like an idiot especially when I had no rooting interest whatsoever... :angry:
Post by: yamatetsu on January 10, 2021, 03:07:40 pm
Velcro was something floating around in my head and the reason I didn't think it would work is not because of strength but because of getting the CP to sit exactly where I want it to sit and also level since velcro can be (slightly) compressed. It is important that the front lip of the CP sit as close as possible to the front face of the cabinet so the roundover looks clean (it won't look 100% clean due to the difference between laminate front and polycarbonite CPO being slightly different shades of black). If I used velcro, I'd have to lower the CP support battons by the thickness of the velcro. Probably not a huge deal, right? I wish there was a way to test this before committing.
Testing is easy. Take a piece of scrap wood, screw some battons on it, apply velcro, apply velcro to the CP, connect. Clamp the whole thing down, try to move the CP. You won't be able to.
As for aligning the CP and the front: Screw/glue some stop blocks under the CP (front, left and right) so that the CP will be inserted in the perfect position and cannot be moved.
Post by: javeryh on January 10, 2021, 04:20:36 pm
Velcro was something floating around in my head and the reason I didn't think it would work is not because of strength but because of getting the CP to sit exactly where I want it to sit and also level since velcro can be (slightly) compressed. It is important that the front lip of the CP sit as close as possible to the front face of the cabinet so the roundover looks clean (it won't look 100% clean due to the difference between laminate front and polycarbonite CPO being slightly different shades of black). If I used velcro, I'd have to lower the CP support battons by the thickness of the velcro. Probably not a huge deal, right? I wish there was a way to test this before committing.
Testing is easy. Take a piece of scrap wood, screw some battons on it, apply velcro, apply velcro to the CP, connect. Clamp the whole thing down, try to move the CP. You won't be able to.
As for aligning the CP and the front: Screw/glue some stop blocks under the CP (front, left and right) so that the CP will be inserted in the perfect position and cannot be moved.
Damn. I wish you could have just come over and done this for me. I'm an idiot. I just spent like 3 hours getting everything PERFECT and now I just realized that the side battons lock the monitor in the cabinet... so I can't take it out to install the bottom 1/2 of the toggle clamps without unscrewing everything. Good thing I didn't glue the battons in place.
Your idea about the stop blocks is genius. I think 2 small pieces towards the front will lock everything in place.
Post by: javeryh on January 10, 2021, 06:35:09 pm
Post by: javeryh on January 13, 2021, 10:20:41 am
First thing I did was finally attach the battons to the cabinet but I had to be careful where I put the screws - I didn't want to them to get in the way of the clip hardware. I also wanted about 1/2" overhang (or is it underhang?) so that the glass that will eventually cover the monitor has something to rest on. So the battons support both the CP and the monitor glass.
(https://i.imgur.com/PgytQER.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/9RnYoIW.jpg)
Next, after some careful measuring, I installed the clips. You can see in this shot that I had to add a small piece of scrapwood under the bracket because the batton holding the monitor was not long enough. The screw sticking up to the left of the clip is a stop for the monitor. It is held in place by gravity only but because of the angle I needed something to stop it from sliding all the way down and out of place. The screw does the trick.
(https://i.imgur.com/VTcH2rx.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/QaszluS.jpg)
And here is a shot from underneath with the control panel in place. There will be two USB cables coming off of the panel for the iPAC2 and the servostik motor which I'll install once I'm ready to put the computer inside. There won't be a lot of room to work with once the monitor is back in pace but I did check and I can reach the clips if I stick my arm up through the coin door.
(https://i.imgur.com/T1jCS3L.jpg)
And here's where I'm at. I'd say it's looking good!
(https://i.imgur.com/EFefk94.jpg)
Another minor thing I did was finish the joystick dustwasher. I had an extra 38mm clear dustwasher that I ordered from Focus Attack a while ago (it's really just a piece of plastic) that I spray painted black on one side. When you flip it over so the painted side is face down, it looks perfect.
Next up is figuring out where to put the volume knob for the speakers I ripped apart. It's just a loose PCB with the knob attached so I'll probably try mounting it just inside the coin door somehow. :cheers:
Post by: Zebidee on January 13, 2021, 01:11:38 pm
BTW love the wood veneer, really screams retro and never truly dies. Even if it gets scratched to hell it is possible to bring it back to life with a little wood putty, some acrylic paint, tung oil and a fair bit of elbow grease.
Post by: javeryh on January 13, 2021, 05:00:48 pm
Looking niiiiiice. Glad you went with the clips/clamps, CP should be rock-solid now.
BTW love the wood veneer, really screams retro and never truly dies. Even if it gets scratched to hell it is possible to bring it back to life with a little wood putty, some acrylic paint, tung oil and a fair bit of elbow grease.
Thanks for the kind words. The wood paneling is my favorite part about this project but if it gets damaged it won't be tat easy to fix since it is actually a vinyl sticker... but it should be able to hold up over time. My kids are older and the basement area where my cabinets are is tiny and not a place where people fool around.
Today I managed to install the volume knob. This was relatively easy once I decided where to put it and also realized there were mounting holes in the PCB... I actually cut a block of wood and started carving it to match the surface of the board so everything would sit flush until I had an "aha" moment. I wasted 2 hours on it... I can't get out of my own way LOL.
Nothing to this other than screwing it in place where it is easily reachable and then managing some cables.
(https://i.imgur.com/v3pVm6S.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KkQ3gP0.jpg)
Next is putting the monitor back inside and installing the computer and connecting the controls. Won't be long now...
Post by: bperkins01 on January 13, 2021, 05:09:20 pm
You may have mentioned it - do you have a link to the material you used for the wood grain sides?
I'm restoring a Ms. Pacman cabaret and it looks pretty close .. hmmm...
Post by: Zebidee on January 13, 2021, 05:18:41 pm
Today I managed to install the volume knob. This was relatively easy once I decided where to put it and also realized there were mounting holes in the PCB... I actually cut a block of wood and started carving it to match the surface of the board so everything would sit flush until I had an "aha" moment. I wasted 2 hours on it... I can't get out of my own way LOL.
Plywood offcuts are actually really great for this, and I've become pretty good at it. You can carefully carve/drill out a single layer ("ply") and then use that to slide your PCB in for a neat finish. I've used this for panel-mounting volume controls (i.e. external access) to arcade cabs, even USB and audio ports (the carved plywood holds PCB/pot firmly behind the panel).
I could post photos but don't want to muddy your thread with my crap.
Post by: Zebidee on January 13, 2021, 05:43:38 pm
Looks great :applaud:
You may have mentioned it - do you have a link to the material you used for the wood grain sides?
I'm restoring a Ms. Pacman cabaret and it looks pretty close .. hmmm...
Restoring? If you have original woodgrain veneer remaining, even it it is scratched to hell, it could probably be restored to former glory.
Cab #4 from left in my sig was a piece of steaming meadowmuffin when I got it free, could barely see there was woodgrain under the scratches. By time I was done it looked like new furniture.
Post by: bperkins01 on January 13, 2021, 05:57:43 pm
(https://bperkins.files.wordpress.com/2021/01/img_8554.jpg?w=350)
Its a mess.. Its not laminate..
The stuff on javeryh's cab looks pretty close..
Post by: Zebidee on January 13, 2021, 06:34:29 pm
Mine is vinyl...
Its a mess.. Its not laminate..
You're right it looks pretty bad, but are you sure that's vinyl? I'd have to see it for reals to be sure. What is that yellowish area near the screw (which I assume is there to hold in the layer)? Is that substrate for the top layer of a laminate?
Not trying to argue bperkins, your pic is good but not enough, and I don't have enough experience with original Ms Pacman cabs. I know that vinyl woodgrain was in use in the early 80's because we had a System 80 computer (TRS 80 clone) that had vinyl woodgrain on the sides. Yeah, woodgrain on a computer how high-tech is that! Anyway, I dunno, what is left of the woodgrain look on that Ms Pacman looks better than ordinary vinyl.
Post by: bperkins01 on January 13, 2021, 07:08:33 pm
I appreciate you caring :)
(https://bperkins.files.wordpress.com/2021/01/img_8769.jpg?resize=500)
Post by: Zebidee on January 13, 2021, 09:10:28 pm
Post by: javeryh on January 14, 2021, 09:43:24 am
Looks great :applaud:
You may have mentioned it - do you have a link to the material you used for the wood grain sides?
I'm restoring a Ms. Pacman cabaret and it looks pretty close .. hmmm...
Thanks.
I bought THIS (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fablon-67-5-Roll-Oak-Robust/dp/B00CZ6UW9G) stuff from Amazon. I'm in the US but ordered from Amazon UK because Amazon US did not sell a similar product that was wide enough. I don't know why but I searched for days and days and all of the rolls being sold in the US were a couple inches too short. It arrived pretty quick (less than a week) and one roll was plenty for one side (so I ordered 2 rolls). It went on SUPER easy. I was nervous but shouldn't have been. It seems like it is going to be durable over time and the adhesive on the back seems to be good too. I would definitely order it again.
Also, the lighting in my pic makes it appear lighter than it is in person. I think it would be a good approximation of your Ms. Pac-Man cabaret but you'd have to cover the entre thing because it's not an exact match. Can't wait to see you bring that back to life!
Post by: bperkins01 on January 14, 2021, 09:54:57 am
I'm stripping the sides down to bare particle board. It needs repair and is expanded around the edges. So it will be *new*
thanks!
Keep up the good work
Post by: javeryh on January 14, 2021, 10:22:29 am
Thanks for the info - I have a few options I'm sorting through - but that one looks pretty good.
I'm stripping the sides down to bare particle board. It needs repair and is expanded around the edges. So it will be *new*
thanks!
Keep up the good work
I would be concerned about any vinyl sticking to particle board unless you seal it first. Mine is made out of MDF and I was even nervous about that so I painted it with 2 coats of Kilz to seal it and I sanded it down to 220 before applying the vinyl.
Post by: bperkins01 on January 14, 2021, 10:29:29 am
Good call. I'll be sealing the existing stuff to stabilize it.. The inside is going to get some fresh black paint.. I can easily spray the sides too..Thanks for the info - I have a few options I'm sorting through - but that one looks pretty good.
I'm stripping the sides down to bare particle board. It needs repair and is expanded around the edges. So it will be *new*
thanks!
Keep up the good work
I would be concerned about any vinyl sticking to particle board unless you seal it first. Mine is made out of MDF and I was even nervous about that so I painted it with 2 coats of Kilz to seal it and I sanded it down to 220 before applying the vinyl.
thx
Post by: javeryh on January 16, 2021, 02:32:17 pm
1. Configure ServoStik so that it automatically switches depending on the selected game
2. Hide Windows 10 (and boot straight to Hyperspin.exe)
I think that's it unless I'm forgetting something obvious. One thing I couldn't figure out was how to launch games from Hyperspin by pressing "any button" instead of just P1 Start. It's fine because that's what the instructions on the CP say and it was how I intended it to work but someone else suggested launching by pressing "any button" (buttons 1, 2 and 3) and it seemed like a good idea. In HyperHQ you can only change the field for Launch Game to one button (unlike in MAME where you can make multiple buttons do the same thing).
I'm also placing the order for the monitor glass today - a 17-15/16" x 13-1/4" piece is going to run me $50! Tempered, 3/16" thick, gray tint, beveled and polished edges really run up the price.
So... is there a guide or something for the ServoStik configuration to get it to work with Hyperspin? I haven't plugged in the USB cable from the servo board to my PC yet but I image it's more than just plug and play. Any guidance here would be great otherwise I'm going down the google/trial and error rabbit hole.
Post by: Zebidee on January 16, 2021, 06:31:16 pm
I'm also placing the order for the monitor glass today - a 17-15/16" x 13-1/4" piece is going to run me $50! Tempered, 3/16" thick, gray tint, beveled and polished edges really run up the price.
My strong recommendation: do not get gray tint, just clear glass is best. Gray tint will just make your screen darker and colours less vibrant.
Other than that strong recommendation, these suggestions: you probably don't need tempered glass, not worth the cost, and I'd choose a bit thicker (6mm, 1/4") if it will fit.
Post by: Arroyo on January 16, 2021, 10:42:41 pm
Regarding launching a game with any button. The recommendation would be the same as with the pause/exit. When launching a game, look to Rocketlauncher, specify each of the buttons you’d like to work (as far as I know there isn’t a limit). I don’t have screen shots but if you are having trouble I can provide. Nice work!
Post by: javeryh on January 17, 2021, 12:11:54 pm
My strong recommendation: do not get gray tint, just clear glass is best. Gray tint will just make your screen darker and colours less vibrant.
Other than that strong recommendation, these suggestions: you probably don't need tempered glass, not worth the cost, and I'd choose a bit thicker (6mm, 1/4") if it will fit.
Really? I've always used gray tint and it always looks better to me at least. Even my DK with the "original" bezel/plexi in front wasn't clear... I think. I was wavering on the tempered glass but I think it's probably a good idea in the long run just in case. 1/4" is a good idea so I'll price it out. I probably don't need the beveled edges either but I honestly don't care about the $50 cost (although paying less would be good) so might as well get it exactly how I want.
First off. Wow. The whole thing pops and looks fantastic. What I appreciate most is sticking to a traditional form. We have a lot of wide screen cabs these days (totally guilty myself), and it’s refreshing to see classic lines.
Regarding launching a game with any button. The recommendation would be the same as with the pause/exit. When launching a game, look to Rocketlauncher, specify each of the buttons you’d like to work (as far as I know there isn’t a limit). I don’t have screen shots but if you are having trouble I can provide. Nice work!
Thanks buddy! A classic look is what drew me to this design so it's good to hear that it actually does look that way.
As for the Rocketlauncher settings - that makes sense. I was making changes in HyperHQ (changing "enter" to "1") so I was in the wrong place. I'll take a look and see if I can find the "launch game" setting in Rocketlauncher.
I'm starting to wonder if I should have been taking notes and making a guide for myself in case I forget all of these settings. I actually thought about making some sort of print out with directions on it that gets stapled to the inside of the back door in case someone else ever becomes the owner of this thing (if so I'm probably dead LOL). Having to unscrew the CP battons to remove the monitor is something that should probably be spelled out somewhere...
Post by: javeryh on January 17, 2021, 04:09:49 pm
In RocketLauncher under Global -> Settings -> Mapping there is a Ultimarc box and a ServoStik Mode with a drop-down menu for auto, 4-way, 8-way and false. All I did was change this one setting from false to auto and it seems to be working. I've tested a bunch of different 8-way and 4-way games and the joystick is switching properly. Literally couldn't have been easier which is why there's no guide out there. :lol Took me 2 hours to figure it out but still...
Next up is hiding Windows 10 and getting everything inside of the cabinet. I hate this part because getting back to windows to mess with stuff is usually a pain after you turn everything off. Once I do that I just have to put everything in the cabinet, hook up the coin door and that's it. :cheers:
Post by: Zebidee on January 17, 2021, 05:10:17 pm
My strong recommendation: do not get gray tint, just clear glass is best. Gray tint will just make your screen darker and colours less vibrant.
Really? I've always used gray tint and it always looks better to me at least.
Up to you and your taste and your money I reckon. But my advice is still to avoid it for arcade cabs.
You want a monitor "well" and dark/black bezel to minimise any external reflected light and normally to make the screen as bright as possible in comparison. I know that gray tinted glass may seem to make the monitor well more of a "well", might even make it look better in pictures, but you don't need it and it only detracts from your screen brightness. you monitor is designed to be viewed without gray glass in front.
Having said that, our human brains and eyes adjust perception to the duller colours and you might not even notice what you are missing.
You might want tinted glass for say an outdoor window, to cut intensity of bright sunlight. I've never seen tinted glass in professional arcade cabs. If you find the screen is too bright, turn down the brightness. Not saying gray tint didn't ever get used, just not that often and not that I ever saw.
Post by: Zebidee on January 17, 2021, 05:17:40 pm
Regarding launching a game with any button. The recommendation would be the same as with the pause/exit. When launching a game, look to Rocketlauncher, specify each of the buttons you’d like to work (as far as I know there isn’t a limit). I don’t have screen shots but if you are having trouble I can provide. Nice work!
After reading this I started looking at Rocketlauncher trying to get my head around how it works. Looks very exciting! Just in the middle of trying to setup new frontend to launch my games etc for Windows 7 setup. I found the forum but guessing I'll need to watch some YT videos etc. Got any good links for new users?
Post by: javeryh on January 18, 2021, 12:17:02 pm
Regarding launching a game with any button. The recommendation would be the same as with the pause/exit. When launching a game, look to Rocketlauncher, specify each of the buttons you’d like to work (as far as I know there isn’t a limit). I don’t have screen shots but if you are having trouble I can provide. Nice work!
After reading this I started looking at Rocketlauncher trying to get my head around how it works. Looks very exciting! Just in the middle of trying to setup new frontend to launch my games etc for Windows 7 setup. I found the forum but guessing I'll need to watch some YT videos etc. Got any good links for new users?
Hmm... I watched a ton of stuff but the videos by Planet Geekdom were the ones I followed. Then for setting up the dynamic marquee I watched a tutorial by MAMEFAN. It took me a long time to figure it all out (started with zero knowledge).
So, I couldn't resist taking a quick video of the ServoStik actually working. I'm quite pleased with myself for getting this to work even though all it amounts to is plugging in a USB cable. :lol
https://youtu.be/mn-knMeyGkI
Punch list is down to:
1. Hide Windows 10
2. Put all the junk in the cabinet
3. Wire coin door and coin return buttons (this is separate because there is no coin button on the CP)
4. Install glass over monitor
5. Build and install coin box
Other stuff I'd like to do:
1. Add a metal ID manufacturing plate to the back or top
2. Use the pause button to display controls on per game basis (this is potentially a huge project)
3. Swap out the yellow coin return buttons for red ones (not sure if this is doable)
4. Get very small wireless keyboard/mouse and store just inside coin door for admin stuff
Not much left to do now, unfortunately. I'm really having fun with this project.
Post by: javeryh on January 19, 2021, 11:58:45 am
So far, here's what it looks like if I just put a shortcut to HyperSpin.exe into ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Startup:
https://youtu.be/X2Sfwu0ZUQQ
As you can see it sucks:
1. HP splash logo visible for split second
2. The D-SUB connection icon in upper left is visible (maybe this will change when I connect to the actual monitors I'm using in the cab?)
3. Welcome wheel is spinning with user account info visible
4. Taskbar on bottom of screen
Then HyperSpin loads. I don't care that it takes 45 seconds but this is ugly as hell.
EDIT: I'm going to upgrade to Windows 10 Enterprise and see what happens. Worst case scenario is I have to reinstall Windows 10 Home. All of my HyperSpin/Rocketlauncher/MAME stuff is on an external USB so those settings should be safe.
EDIT: 2: OK, Upgrade to Enterprise is complete (no license) and it works for the most part. #1 and #2 above are still visible but #3 and #4 are gone completely. I can probably live with this since I'm reasonably sure there's no way to get rid of #1 since it is hard coded into the motherboard settings. The weird thing is that when I first start Hyperspin and try to select a game to play there is a HUGE lag. I can scroll through other games after pressing "start" (which changes the marque) and then the originally selected game will launch. Not sure if this is because I'm running things off of the external drive or what. Once I exit out and select something else the lag is reduced but not all the way.
I'm inclined to copy everything from the USB drive to the internal hard drive to see if that helps but I do not remember at all what I had to point to when setting up HyperSpin/Rocketlauncher/MAME. I would keep the file structure the same but all references to E:\ would have to change to C:\ and I'm not sure I want to get into that.
EDIT 3: eff it I'm going for it. Installing everything to the C:\ is a pain but I think I'll be happy I did it in the long run.
EDIT 4: I did it. Everything seems to be working smoother as a result. Hypermarquee was the hardest part - had to change a ton of settings there but right now everything is behaving as planned.
Post by: yamatetsu on January 20, 2021, 03:31:31 am
1. HP splash logo visible for split second
2. The D-SUB connection icon in upper left is visible (maybe this will change when I connect to the actual monitors I'm using in the cab?)
1. That is a BIOS setting. Most motherboards have the option to turn it off. Try googling "bios turn hp logo off".
2. That is your monitor telling you which port it gets a signal from. I don't think that this can be turned off.
I don't know if this is feasible, a simple solution to #1 would be to have something that powers the computer on, waits a few secs and then turns on the monitor.
Post by: javeryh on January 20, 2021, 09:04:23 am
1. HP splash logo visible for split second
2. The D-SUB connection icon in upper left is visible (maybe this will change when I connect to the actual monitors I'm using in the cab?)
1. That is a BIOS setting. Most motherboards have the option to turn it off. Try googling "bios turn hp logo off".
2. That is your monitor telling you which port it gets a signal from. I don't think that this can be turned off.
I don't know if this is feasible, a simple solution to #1 would be to have something that powers the computer on, waits a few secs and then turns on the monitor.
Thanks. I think I fixed #1. You can go into msconfig, click the "Boot" tab and click "No boot GUI" and restart. Seems to have worked. I kept rebooting, hitting F10 to get into the BIOS and went though every setting and couldn't fix it. One Google search later after your suggestion and it's done. LOL.
As for #2, I'm going to be using 2 completely different monitors in the cabinet itself so once I get everything inside this should resolve itself. I'll be doing that as soon as I get some work done...
Post by: Jimbo on January 20, 2021, 10:11:46 am
Post by: javeryh on January 21, 2021, 04:21:58 pm
Looking good mate - I can't wait for the video showcasing the entire cab when it's done! ;D
Thanks! At this rate I'm never going to finish. I have spent the better part of today messing with the computer... I had everything ready to go - added a long wire to the motherboard pins for power button on outside of cab, unhooked everything, etc. and when I went to put the computer into the cabinet... it didn't fit. THe case is just too bulky (by like an inch). There is so much empty space inside and also a CD drive that I don't need...
:angry:
So... I started taking it apart completely. I now have the motherboard, power supply and hard drive outside of the case and can probably mount it to the bottom panel of the cabinet using some PCB feet. But in taking it apart, the cooler for the processor popped off because the 4 screws were connected directly to the case. And of course the mechanical tab thing that keeps the processor in place is not locking (this HAD to have ben broken the whole time because I didn't do anything to it).
Anyway, can I use the motherboard outside of the case with no cooler on the processor? Is this a fire hazard or something? Without the case, there is no way to attach the cooler and also route air from a fan - there was a fan attached to the inside of the case and then a curved piece of plastic that directed the airflow through the cooler over the processor. I'm afraid without this it will overheat but there's a good chance I have no idea what I'm talking about.
https://youtu.be/jgM9BuU3XuE
What would you guys do?
Post by: vertexguy on January 21, 2021, 05:20:25 pm
For airflow ideas consider just a standard plastic rectangular computer fan that runs off the PSU. One or two of those blowing directly on the processor I would imagine should create the same airflow those plastic channels provide. One consideration there is where the air is coming from. The channels are designed to push fresher and presumably cooler air from the outside into the case and directly onto the cpu. So if you can route it close to a vent, that could be fine. I've had processors running with extra case fans on them in the past and that seemed to work fine for overheating. Some of the bios settings provide a temp readout on certain motherboards. That can be your indicator of how it's performing. Take measure at cold startup, and then just run some cpu intensive games for an hour and check where it's at again. In my experience with overheating computers in the past, if they were going to overheat, you could get it to happen fairly quickly with a cpu intensive game (talking non mame in my experience here, but should be similar). You can probably google safe operating temp ranges on that particular processor to let you know how you're fairing too.
Post by: bperkins01 on January 21, 2021, 05:40:17 pm
You should use thermal paste to get that stack back together if possible
Then get a small fan that pushes air through the fins to remove the heat. you don't need a hurricane.. just air movement
Look at the fan setup in your pc case and see how the air flows..
By the looks of it that's the only part that needs cooling..
Something like this to remove the heat is all you should really need...
https://www.amazon.com/Raspberry-iUniker-30x30x7mm-Brushless-RetroFlag/dp/B076H3TKBP/ref=sr_1_12_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=cpu+cooling+fan&qid=1611268387&refinements=p_36%3A1253503011&rnid=386442011&s=electronics&sr=1-12-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExWEM3U1pVTVZWNklJJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjA2Nzc2MkE2SThMWVUyODEzSCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNzU0NjM4Mjg2QVRENURTNkkwVSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX210ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
HTH
Post by: Zebidee on January 21, 2021, 07:51:00 pm
- If you can mount the motherboard sideways/side of cabinet it will collect less dust over time than it will sitting flat on the bottom. However, I'm not sure if your video card and cooler will be happy like that.
- If you're going to lie the motherboard flat then you might want to craft a cover to go on top.
- You might consider screwing motherboard to some scrap wood first, before installing into the cab.
- Can you make a rolling shelf or drawer to fit the motherboard onto? That way you can just slide it in/out when servicing.
- Use one or two case fans in your cab to exhaust hot air and draw fresh air in. Hot air rises, so have a fan higher up to get hot air out. Fresh air needs to come in as well, so make sure there is a vent somewhere near bottom of cab. This will improve airflow and efficiency of the exhaust fan. The intake vent doesn't necessarily need a fan.
- If pests/vermin are common in your area, consider mosquito mesh to cover your vent/fan holes. This is a must if you live in a tropical area (like me).
Post by: javeryh on January 21, 2021, 09:45:07 pm
I've never had airflow problems in my cabinets so there are no vents and I usually leave the PC in the case so my thinking is if I leave it out of the case it will be even better. I'll make sure to have a fan positioned so it is blowing across the cooler. The main issue is attaching the cooler to the motherboard - I guess I need to go to Home Depot tomorrow to find some nuts for those screws and hope I can find some that fit. Assuming I can do that, I'll mount the motherboard, power supply and fan on a separate piece of 1/2" MDF or plywood so it can sit on the floor of the cabinet. I'm not sure it will work on the inside wall because of the monitor taking up so much space. I just hope it still works when I put it all back together. This is what I get for trying to repurpose a trash computer...
Post by: Zebidee on January 21, 2021, 10:31:33 pm
Thanks guys.
I've never had airflow problems in my cabinets so there are no vents and I usually leave the PC in the case so my thinking is if I leave it out of the case it will be even better. I'll make sure to have a fan positioned so it is blowing across the cooler. The main issue is attaching the cooler to the motherboard - I guess I need to go to Home Depot tomorrow to find some nuts for those screws and hope I can find some that fit. Assuming I can do that, I'll mount the motherboard, power supply and fan on a separate piece of 1/2" MDF or plywood so it can sit on the floor of the cabinet. I'm not sure it will work on the inside wall because of the monitor taking up so much space. I just hope it still works when I put it all back together. This is what I get for trying to repurpose a trash computer...
I used to not worry about vents or fans much when I was in a mostly temperate and dry climate, no sea nearby (salt). However in a tropical climate it becomes very important.
If you get a chance to go to local hardware store, ask/look at some drawer runners. Get local guy at shop to explain how to install, is easy. Take measurements & pics of what you'll need before you go to the store.
Then you can have that slide-out drawer for your motherboard/PSU/Fan to mount into.
I had this before on a custom cab I did for a mate long time ago - 3rd from left in my sig pic. PC had no traditional case, much like yours, and was just screwed onto the wood. I will try to dig up some photos.
Post by: javeryh on January 22, 2021, 02:57:49 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210122/fffd8352e1a4fb1d8936bf46a6fac3cf.jpg)
It’s a smaller footprint than the case by a considerable amount. The motherboard is screwed down but the fan and the PSU are being held in place by some double sided tape and some strategic blocking (the blocks are glued to the MDF). It it relatively secure but if you guys have better ideas I’m all ears.
I’m about to finally put the computer in the cabinet but I’m a little concerned about the computer booting up because I removed the disc drive, the front USB panel, the internal speaker and the cable that ran from the motherboard to the rear panel for the printer. Will I have boot issues? Is the computer going to give me a bunch of errors because it is expecting those devices to be plugged in? I guess I’ll find out...
Post by: vertexguy on January 22, 2021, 03:18:45 pm
Post by: firedance on January 22, 2021, 03:31:32 pm
am sure they do something very similar in your part of the world - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fixing-Band-10m-All-Purpose-Securing-Strapping-Galvanised-Steel-Reel-Industrial-/352434238181
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=156230.0;attach=364485;image
you'll be fine with just the basic cables plugged into the motherboard, when you start using newer boards from the likes of Dell/HP they throw a hissy fit when somethings not plugged in and its sometimes not possible to bypass.
Post by: javeryh on January 22, 2021, 04:22:47 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210122/2965b5cab3cfe646aa13006c102ddaff.jpg)
I press Ctrl+P and it just hangs. Maybe because this is shelled to boot directly to Hyperspin? I don’t even know what the rear chassis fan is - I reconnected the only fan that blows across the processor. More troubleshooting I guess.
Post by: vertexguy on January 22, 2021, 04:46:10 pm
Post by: javeryh on January 22, 2021, 05:18:16 pm
IHmm...'m not sure what MEBX is. Googling says its something specific for intel chipset setups. If that's not working try hitting F10 repeatedly right at power on. That's the standard key for HP bios access.I can get to BIOS by hitting F10 but disabling the internal audio and the front USB devices doesn’t help. The computer still expects these things at boot. So I’ve reattached them and they are just sort of hanging there. It’s fine because no one will see it but the less junk I have to put inside the cabinet the better.
I also got an error a few times saying it expected a rear fan - there was never a rear fan so not sure why it would think that. I’ve rebooted a few times now and the error hasn’t popped up again so I’m going to assume it’s OK now.
I really wish I could get rid of the HP splash logo but I don’t see a setting in the BIOS for that.
Post by: Zebidee on January 22, 2021, 06:39:33 pm
Shame you had to decase that PC as I rather like the cases. The lid is very easy to remove with a single action.
Post by: javeryh on January 22, 2021, 07:05:56 pm
Looks like a HP SFF desktop beast, in fact it looks just like the computer I have in my vertical cab (core2duo E7500 or E8500 iirc).
Shame you had to decase that PC as I rather like the cases. The lid is very easy to remove with a single action.
I think it was a Compaq? It's an 8500. The case is big but yeah the door pops right off. There's a latch on the side and you just pull and it opens up.
There was an audio issue (no sound) but I figured it out for now. Tomorrow this thing goes into the cabinet so help me.
Post by: Zebidee on January 22, 2021, 07:23:22 pm
I may have a solution for your splash screen issue. I just booted up one of these HP-Compaq beasts that I use for general testing purposes. If you go into the BIOS and choose "Advanced"/"Power-on Options"/"Post Messages" and choose "Enable".
That might not make intuitive sense, but when I pressed F1 help it says "Allows for selection between splash screen and text-mode startup". When I enabled this the splash screen went away and booting was much faster.
EDIT: There are also some options in there under "Security" for disabling front panel USB
Post by: javeryh on January 22, 2021, 08:34:26 pm
HP & Compaq merged many years ago, and technically it is a HP-Compaq beast.Wow thanks - I’m watching a movie with the fam right now but can’t wait to try this and see if it works. I remember the setting for Post Messages but it made no sense to me so I didn’t change anything there. I’ll be so psyched if this finally works... I need to get on to the next project for 2021!
I may have a solution for your splash screen issue. I just booted up one of these HP-Compaq beasts that I use for general testing purposes. If you go into the BIOS and choose "Advanced"/"Power-on Options"/"Post Messages" and choose "Enable".
That might not make intuitive sense, but when I pressed F1 help it says "Allows for selection between splash screen and text-mode startup". When I enabled this the splash screen went away and booting was much faster.
EDIT: There are also some options in there under "Security" for disabling front panel USB
Post by: Zebidee on January 23, 2021, 02:56:23 am
This is from an LAI cab I got as an empty shell and restored/customed nearly 15 years ago. I didn't actually build the drawer, it was there already. I adapted it to a PC.
I did everything else you see, including that sub-control panel with USB ports, volume control and DVD drive. I built that frame to support it from scrap wood and an used an old place mat for the front piece. The sub-control panel fits in where the coin mech used to live.
Note how I adapted a case side panel to form a basic roof over the top of PC to minimise dust. You can also see how I fashioned some brackets, from pop-outs for expansion cards, to support the video card and hold the PSU in place.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=386071) (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=386072)
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=386074) (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159740.0;attach=386075)
I uploaded a few more pics http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,159740.msg1731788.html#msg1731788
Post by: Jimbo on January 23, 2021, 04:27:48 am
Post by: Arroyo on January 23, 2021, 11:11:16 am
Post by: javeryh on January 23, 2021, 01:32:52 pm
An example of a drawer for your PC:
Thanks for these pics. If I had the forethought I could have done something like this but I can’t make a shelf low enough based on the back door of my cabinet. It would interfere with the monitor. The bottom area with the power receptacle is about 8” tall so any drawer would need to sit above that.
I did manage to make that change in the BIOS you suggested and now my boot looks like this:
https://youtu.be/8w2XYgdob8w
There is still a flash of text but I think I can live with it. What’s weird is that this was introduced when I decased the computer - this is the screen that was giving me the error messages. It still comes up now but with no errors so it keeps going. It wasn’t there previously. Weird.
Anyway, here’s the “final” setup:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210123/9d4613e329054ed436a70ab8dacc90b5.jpg)
The junk circled in yellow is the front USB panel and the internal speaker, both of which the computer expects on boot (even after disabling the front USB panel and internal audio in BIOS).
No one will ever see it. Time to put this bad boy inside the cabinet...
Post by: Zebidee on January 23, 2021, 05:32:27 pm
The junk circled in yellow is the front USB panel and the internal speaker, both of which the computer expects on boot (even after disabling the front USB panel and internal audio in BIOS).
Given that the option to disable USB ports is under "Security", and the PC was designed for corporate/organisational use, I think their main focus was to stop "spies" (or employees) from downloading data via USB, rather than anything else
Post by: javeryh on January 24, 2021, 06:49:34 pm
Given that the option to disable USB ports is under "Security", and the PC was designed for corporate/organisational use, I think their main focus was to stop "spies" (or employees) from downloading data via USB, rather than anything else
Makes sense.
OK... I might have to take a break from this for a few days. It has gone from incredibly fun to incredibly frustrating the last few days. I got everything into the cab this afternoon. Then when I tried sliding the monitor back in I realized I had to make some notches on the monitor mount so it would clear the clips I installed for the control panel. 90 minutes with the dremel and the monitor slid into place. Great. I plugged in both monitors and the computer and connected the servostik, iPac2 and speakers via USB. I wired up the power button. Then... nothing. I pressed power, the computer came on and the main monitor was just making a clicking noise with no picture. Second monitor was on and HyperSpin booted as expected. Joystick seemed to be working. Only one speaker was working - not sure what the problem is there but hopefully that's an easy fix.
So I disconnected the CRT, which is plugged into the PC via THIS (https://www.amazon.com/Moread-Gold-Plated-Projector-Chromebook-Raspberry/dp/B00SW9JI9A/ref=sr_1_3?_encoding=UTF8&c=ts&dchild=1&keywords=HDMI-to-VGA+Adapters&qid=1611532063&s=pc&sr=1-3&ts_id=14570285011) HDMI to VGA dongle. No changes. Then I disconnected the dongle and the monitor kind of came alive - I got the "no signal" box in the middle of the screen. If I plug the dongle back in, the picture goes blank. Any ideas what might be causing this? The only thing I could think of is that the computer is expecting a different resolution out of that monitor because my test monitors were widescreen LCDs. Could that be it?
If that's the case, I can connect the LCD, go into Windows and make some resolution settings changes (I guess I need to be in 1024x768 resolution) but it will be kind of a pain. I can't do it tonight because of NFL playoffs but it will give me something to do tomorrow. Short of that I'm out of ideas.
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Post by: Zebidee on January 24, 2021, 08:26:45 pm
I suspect that HDMI-VGA dongle will only give you horizontal sync over VGA pin 13, no vertical sync via pin 14?. This could explain your monitor's behaviour - it detects a connection but the sync is not right.
If this is the reason, you can get composite sync via VGA pin 13 if you enable composite sync in VMMaker and regenerate/reinstall video modes.
Post by: javeryh on January 24, 2021, 08:48:53 pm
Your issue may come down to the sync.Thanks. I’m not really sure what this means... is it an easy fix?
I suspect that HDMI-VGA dongle will only give you horizontal sync over VGA pin 13, no vertical sync via pin 14?. This could explain your monitor's behaviour - it detects a connection but the sync is not right.
If this is the reason, you can get composite sync via VGA pin 13 if you enable composite sync in VMMaker and regenerate/reinstall video modes.
I had the monitor previously hooked up using a DVI to VGA adapter previously but the stupid adapter is almost 2” long and that plus the VGA connection is the reason the computer didn’t fit inside the cabinet in the first place. It worked though - picture was fine. So I just ordered THIS (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D3XZ9SD/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_IgIdGb9220MAS) one instead. This will fit. It arrives tomorrow so I hope it works.
I don’t think I’ll be decasing a monitor again anytime soon. An LCD with some HLSL scan lines is good enough for my basement.
Post by: Arroyo on January 24, 2021, 08:55:48 pm
I would try the native resolution of the CRT and reconnect it after setting up on your LCD.
Post by: Zebidee on January 24, 2021, 09:12:45 pm
I don’t believe javery is using GroovyMame. Or maybe I missed that.
I would try the native resolution of the CRT and reconnect it after setting up on your LCD.
You mean the CRT_emulator driver? Good point. Even so, it could be a potential solution.
There are other ways of enabling composite sync for different video cards too.
Post by: javeryh on January 24, 2021, 09:18:56 pm
I don’t believe javery is using GroovyMame. Or maybe I missed that.I’m not. Just MAME and Hyperspin. I’ll try changing the resolution on the LCD and reconnect. If that doesn’t work, maybe the new DVI-VGA adapter will. It was working via DVI previously.
I would try the native resolution of the CRT and reconnect it after setting up on your LCD.
I’m just getting sick of this project at this point - spent dozens of hours on software and hiding windows and other junk I don’t find particularly fun.
Post by: Zebidee on January 24, 2021, 09:36:01 pm
... It was working via DVI previously.
I’m just getting sick of this project at this point - spent dozens of hours on software and hiding windows and other junk I don’t find particularly fun.
Yeah man I know that feeling too well :'( You wanna take a break but want to finish it off too.
Maybe if you can just slide the PC out a bit and test it with the DVI-VGA dongle you already have, make sure there isn't some other issue. Then take a breather and wait for the new dongle to come in.
Post by: wp34 on January 25, 2021, 10:14:55 am
I’m just getting sick of this project at this point - spent dozens of hours on software and hiding windows and other junk I don’t find particularly fun.
Been there done that. The software portion of this hobby is the worst for me. Not that I can't do it but I don't find it enjoyable.
Hang in there. The cabinet is amazing looking and I'm looking forward to seeing you be done. :cheers:
Post by: javeryh on January 25, 2021, 12:01:28 pm
Yeah man I know that feeling too well :'( You wanna take a break but want to finish it off too.
Maybe if you can just slide the PC out a bit and test it with the DVI-VGA dongle you already have, make sure there isn't some other issue. Then take a breather and wait for the new dongle to come in.
Been there done that. The software portion of this hobby is the worst for me. Not that I can't do it but I don't find it enjoyable.
Hang in there. The cabinet is amazing looking and I'm looking forward to seeing you be done. :cheers:
Thanks guys. I keep thinking I'm going to get better at the computer side of things if I dive in but it doesn't seem to be happening! Feels like I can breeze through the actual construction of a cabinet and then it crawls along once I have to start filling it with electronics. The new dongle should arrive today (yay Amazon) so hopefully this is just a minor speed bump.
The only thing I can see really screwing me over is not being able to adjust the picture on the monitor once I get it running since the monitor's control panel isn't working. If that's the case and I really need to adjust the picture I'm just going to buy another monitor and NOT decase it. I already have a shelf inside at the perfect height to just place the monitor inside and secure it in place somehow. I've even toyed with the idea of buying a 17" 4:3 LCD arcade monitor and adding scan lines, curving the corners, etc. to mimic a CRT. 99% of people who play on it won't care and I'm not sure I do either at this point.
While I wait for the dongle to be delivered, I'm going to work on wiring the coin door. There is no coin button on the CP or anywhere else so the coin door is going to be the only way to add credits. I will wire up the two switches for P1 and P2 coin but I'm also going to add a switch directly behind both coin returns so you can add credits without coins. I have a molex connector I'm going to cut in half so that I will be able to disconnect these wires easily (otherwise if you need to take the CP off for whatever reason the wires for the coin buttons will still be connected).
The one other thing I need to figure out is how to actually catch the quarters as they drop. Right now, they are all going to hit the computer... not good. I can't just add a box though because I stupidly put the volume knob between the mechs on the inside of the door and I also have nothing to rest the box on. I think some cardboard will do the trick I just need to think through it.
I didn't plan the insides as well as I should have - lesson learned. I just assumed there would be a ton of space so I could do whatever I wanted but it's actually quite tight in there. OK, back to work. :cheers:
Post by: vertexguy on January 25, 2021, 01:24:22 pm
The one other thing I need to figure out is how to actually catch the quarters as they drop. Right now, they are all going to hit the computer... not good. I can't just add a box though because I stupidly put the volume knob between the mechs on the inside of the door and I also have nothing to rest the box on. I think some cardboard will do the trick I just need to think through it.
Maybe consider a coin door mod so the quarter ejects to the return but still counts the credit addition? I've seen that somewhere on this board before. Then you don't need a box.
Post by: Zebidee on January 25, 2021, 04:39:02 pm
Post by: javeryh on January 25, 2021, 04:56:11 pm
Maybe consider a coin door mod so the quarter ejects to the return but still counts the credit addition? I've seen that somewhere on this board before. Then you don't need a box.
I've never seen that before. I'll have to look into it. I think what I'm going to do is just make a weird shaped coin box out of cardboard and tape and just fit it in. I'll hav to hover over the computer but I'm sure I'll figure something out.
Maybe I was overthinking your HDMI-VGA issue before with blank monitor - just wondering if you changed display settings for which video head you were outputting to? Though I guess the whole issue is a bit moot now with your DVI-VGA adapter coming in.
I am assuming it will work once I get the adapter but I'm not sure because this whole thing has been a mess. But originally it was connected via DVI out to VGA. That wouldn't fit so I had to order a new adapter... but the video card also supported HDMI out so I got an HDMI out to VGA adapter. This worked perfectly with the LCD monitors I was using to set everything up. However, it did not work when I hooked up the main CRT monitor, which I wasn't expecting. I think it is a handshake issue - the signal the monitor is expecting is different than what it is actually getting so nothing is displaying. My guess is using the DVI out to VGA adapter will work (because it worked previously when I tested the CRT monitor after it arrived at my house). I should have never bought the HDMI out to VGA adapter. I'm not even sure why I did.
Post by: javeryh on January 25, 2021, 05:09:35 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210125/13ae5d1aeba525eba9dad7f4a85e9f41.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210125/70eb1b3fbdef6730062d6befeef32718.jpg)
I glued 2 extra switches behind the coin returns so pressing them will add a credit. You can see the Molex connector with the 4 wires sticking out - I have to solder these ends to the green wires to the far right. The connector is so that I can remove the CP if need be. Kind of a pain but I think it’s worth it in the long run. Only issue is that I am one wire short (ground) so not quite sure how I’m going to handle that yet.
Post by: SuperMagoAlex on January 25, 2021, 05:38:52 pm
I’m not. Just MAME and Hyperspin. I’ll try changing the resolution on the LCD and reconnect. If that doesn’t work, maybe the new DVI-VGA adapter will. It was working via DVI previously.
I dont think it will work, or maybe it will work but only with an interlaced resolution like 640x480i.
You need an ATI graphic card (like Radeon R5 230...), Calamity drivers, and Groovymame to play MAME games in pixel perfect (resolution and refresh) with your crt monitor.
Post by: Zebidee on January 25, 2021, 06:18:23 pm
I dont think it will work, or maybe it will work but only with an interlaced resolution like 640x480i.
You need an ATI graphic card (like Radeon R5 230...), Calamity drivers, and Groovymame to play MAME games in pixel perfect (resolution and refresh) with your crt monitor.
It has a VGA CRT monitor in there so is OK.
While one could get a lot more out of it with CRT_emudriver and Groovymame, it can happen later. More important to wrap up the cab building side of the project for now.
Post by: SuperMagoAlex on January 25, 2021, 06:38:00 pm
It has a VGA CRT monitor in there so is OK.
While one could get a lot more out of it with CRT_emudriver and Groovymame, it can happen later. More important to wrap up the cab building side of the project for now.
I thought he had a 15khz arcade monitor.
With vga monitor (640x480p), he can't use groovymame.
Post by: Zebidee on January 25, 2021, 06:48:04 pm
With vga monitor (640x480p), he can't use groovymame.
He sure can use Groovymame
Post by: javeryh on January 25, 2021, 06:53:18 pm
Post by: Zebidee on January 25, 2021, 08:28:10 pm
Groovymame is designed to take advantage of the driver, but doesn't actually *need* it. Especially if you want to run with a monitor at a fixed resolution and refresh rate. However all that scaling and refresh rate matching may come with a CPU performance hit. You can run Groovymame alongside normal mame in same folder, doesn't hurt anything to test and it won't muck up your video modes.
Post by: SuperMagoAlex on January 26, 2021, 10:25:51 am
People understandably often confuse the CRT_emulator *driver* (which you can use for generating video modes and getting your GPU to output at different frequencies, including 15khz) with Groovymame, which essentially a cooler version of mame that runs games so that they look & sound as good as possible and run at original frame rates.
Groovymame is designed to take advantage of the driver, but doesn't actually *need* it. Especially if you want to run with a monitor at a fixed resolution and refresh rate. However all that scaling and refresh rate matching may come with a CPU performance hit. You can run Groovymame alongside normal mame in same folder, doesn't hurt anything to test and it won't muck up your video modes.
I know... I mean he can't use Groovymame + switchres and play in pixel perfect, its monitor is like an LCD.
Post by: javeryh on January 26, 2021, 11:13:24 am
Couple of issues:
- I'm still having an issue with the first game selected - I press "P1 Start" to launch the game and there is at least a 5-10 second delay before it launches. If I back out and launch another game there is still a delay but it is much slower (2-3 seconds). I wouldn't care except during this time, you can still move up and down the gamelist which makes the marquee change and then when the game you selected finally launches it will not be displaying the correct marquee. What could be causing this?
- The monitor board is either dead or just not responding to inputs so my picture is really off center and compressed. This one is going to really annoy me. I'm not really sire what I could even do to fix this one short of eventually replacing the monitor... any ideas?
Post by: javeryh on January 26, 2021, 01:05:49 pm
So I went into settings and set the CRT as the "main" monitor. Now when Hyperspin launches, the main game selection screen is on the CRT and the marquee shows up on the marquee screen. BUT WHEN I LAUNCH A GAME IT PLAYS ON THE MARQUEE. I cannot take any more of this.
EDIT: OK, I worked this out in the mame.ini file. Had to set screen to \\.\DISPLAY2 under ## OSD PER-WINDOW VIDEO OPTIONS. Makes no sense but it seems to be working. I need a break. I'm losing it.
Post by: markc74 on January 26, 2021, 02:04:29 pm
EDIT: OK, I worked this out in the mame.ini file. Had to set screen to \\.\DISPLAY2 under ## OSD PER-WINDOW VIDEO OPTIONS. Makes no sense but it seems to be working. I need a break. I'm losing it.
Ah - that takes me back. I remember having exactly the same problem on Blip and that solution fixed it. Then had it again on Cube and as I'd forgotten how I did it the first time :banghead:
I feel like I could write a book on the nuances of getting a marquee working properly (if I hadn't forgotten most of it again anyway!)
Post by: javeryh on January 26, 2021, 02:40:29 pm
EDIT: OK, I worked this out in the mame.ini file. Had to set screen to \\.\DISPLAY2 under ## OSD PER-WINDOW VIDEO OPTIONS. Makes no sense but it seems to be working. I need a break. I'm losing it.
Ah - that takes me back. I remember having exactly the same problem on Blip and that solution fixed it. Then had it again on Cube and as I'd forgotten how I did it the first time :banghead:
I feel like I could write a book on the nuances of getting a marquee working properly (if I hadn't forgotten most of it again anyway!)
Haha - if you had only warned me you could have talked me out of this entire project!
The marquee aspect has been giving me fits. I have set it to the correct size like 50 times but it never seems to remember. Windows switched the resolution of the monitor so it throws off the alignment so I fix the marquee and then fix the resolution and it messes up the alignment again. For every change/fix I make another 3 pop up. But I'm getting there. The cabinet is off right now and I'm hopeful the next time I boot it up, it will behave as expected. I need to finish wiring the coin door while it's off.
Post by: markc74 on January 26, 2021, 03:44:36 pm
I love the build part but the software side can drive you nuts... (I've been recently started setting up my vpin software and that's even worse!)
Post by: javeryh on January 26, 2021, 04:19:29 pm
Yeah it's a deep dark hole once you get into it.
I love the build part but the software side can drive you nuts... (I've been recently started setting up my vpin software and that's even worse!)
I'm the same exact way - I love the physical build but the software makes me crazy. Just a lack of understanding on my part so I research what I want to do and when I finally figure it out I immediately forget.
I've heard vpin is a nightmare... I think I'm going to hold off on that for now. Been thinking about the next build and might just do a standard 2P slim upright. i actually have no 2-player cabinets in my house and it's probably time. But of course I'd want to mount a giant TV vertically, which I'm sure will come with a ton of issues. ;D
Post by: javeryh on January 27, 2021, 01:01:28 pm
This afternoon I'm finishing up the coin door wiring - I don't have clips to hold stuff while soldering so it's a huge pain. I just read about "tinning" a connection where you add some solder to one wire and then heat that up while holding the other wire in place so I'm going to give that a try.
After I finish wiring I'm going to start messing around with HLSL for some decent scan lines.
Anyone know why game selection in Hyperspin could be laggy? The P1 start button instantly responds when I'm in a game but I'm getting a pretty big lag when I select a game from the main menu.
Post by: SuperMagoAlex on January 28, 2021, 04:17:54 am
After I finish wiring I'm going to start messing around with HLSL for some decent scan lines.
Before going crazy with HLSL, try in mame.ini --> effect scanlines
Works well on my VGA crt monitor 640x480
Post by: javeryh on January 28, 2021, 09:16:18 am
After I finish wiring I'm going to start messing around with HLSL for some decent scan lines.
Before going crazy with HLSL, try in mame.ini --> effect scanlines
Works well on my VGA crt monitor 640x480
So just change effect scanlines from 0 to 1? That's easy enough to try.
So here's where I'm at:
https://youtu.be/sgd_rXznVrI
Still have a bunch of small things left to do but making progress every day:
- figure out scanlines
- mount smart strip on inside wall
- make some sort of box to cover the main outlet on the inside (would cardboard covered in duct tape work?)
- finish coin door wiring (just need to connect wires to iPAC2)
- make and install coin box
- install glass over monitor (its ordered)
- swap out yellow coin returns for red ones
- add LEDs for coin return buttons
- add Atari serial number plate (anyone know where to get these???)
- make and staple instruction sheet to inside of back door (I want a written record of how to add games, get to windows, etc.)
- (maybe) make instruction cards for each game that pop up when game is paused (long term project)
So not too bad but the last bits are always tough to get through (especially with a playable cabinet!).
:cheers:
Post by: SuperMagoAlex on January 28, 2021, 10:12:21 am
So just change effect scanlines from 0 to 1? That's easy enough to try.
Just change
#
# CORE SCREEN OPTIONS
#
effect none
to
#
# CORE SCREEN OPTIONS
#
effect scanlines
Post by: lomoverde on January 28, 2021, 10:20:19 am
BGFX scanlines are really easy to activate aswell,i think there less resource hungry too.
#
# OSD VIDEO OPTIONS
#
video bgfx
#
# BGFX POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#
bgfx_path bgfx
bgfx_backend auto
bgfx_debug 0
bgfx_screen_chains crt-geom
bgfx_shadow_mask slot-mask.png
bgfx_lut
bgfx_avi_name auto
or crt-geom-deluxe.I use these on a lcd and of course you dont need to add curvature. Another option tho.
Post by: bperkins01 on January 28, 2021, 10:23:33 am
Post by: wp34 on January 28, 2021, 02:43:51 pm
- add Atari serial number plate (anyone know where to get these???)
:cheers:
IJoeG on KLOV was going to sell these but I didn't see where he actually put out a shingle. Might be worth sending him a PM.
https://forums.arcade-museum.com/threads/repro-model-number-and-warning-stickers-aluminum-vinyl.479430/#post-4246723
Post by: javeryh on January 28, 2021, 04:13:52 pm
So just change effect scanlines from 0 to 1? That's easy enough to try.
Just change
#
# CORE SCREEN OPTIONS
#
effect none
to
#
# CORE SCREEN OPTIONS
#
effect scanlines
Thanks. I'll check it out and report back...
BGFX scanlines are really easy to activate aswell,i think there less resource hungry too.
#
# OSD VIDEO OPTIONS
#
video bgfx
#
# BGFX POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#
bgfx_path bgfx
bgfx_backend auto
bgfx_debug 0
bgfx_screen_chains crt-geom
bgfx_shadow_mask slot-mask.png
bgfx_lut
bgfx_avi_name auto
or crt-geom-deluxe.I use these on a lcd and of course you dont need to add curvature. Another option tho.
Thanks - I will also check this out and report back.
That's pretty slick - :applaud:
Ha! Thanks - I think so anyway (no one else in the house seems to care...) :(
Your cab is coming together nicely. :cheers:
- add Atari serial number plate (anyone know where to get these???)
:cheers:
IJoeG on KLOV was going to sell these but I didn't see where he actually put out a shingle. Might be worth sending him a PM.
https://forums.arcade-museum.com/threads/repro-model-number-and-warning-stickers-aluminum-vinyl.479430/#post-4246723
Thanks - I just posted in his thread over there. Hopefully he will respond. His stickers look very cool.
So... I had always thought I could wire 2 buttons to one input on the iPAC2 but this doesn't seem to be the case. For my coin door I wired both switches on the coin mechs to COIN1 and COIN2 on the iPAC2. I also added two additional switches that you can press using the coin return. I wired these directly to COIN1 and COIN2 on the iPAC2 as well. So each of COIN1 and COIN2 have 2 wires coming out of the screw terminal. All 4 buttons share GROUND. The switches in the mechs work fine but the switches behind the coin returns do not work at all. Is this because they are sharing GROUND? Should I just wire these to some unused screw terminals and change the behavior in MAME? Any idea why this isn't working?
Thanks. :cheers:
Post by: PL1 on January 28, 2021, 05:30:00 pm
So... I had always thought I could wire 2 buttons to one input on the iPAC2 but this doesn't seem to be the case. For my coin door I wired both switches on the coin mechs to COIN1 and COIN2 on the iPAC2. I also added two additional switches that you can press using the coin return. I wired these directly to COIN1 and COIN2 on the iPAC2 as well. So each of COIN1 and COIN2 have 2 wires coming out of the screw terminal. All 4 buttons share GROUND. The switches in the mechs work fine but the switches behind the coin returns do not work at all. Is this because they are sharing GROUND? Should I just wire these to some unused screw terminals and change the behavior in MAME? Any idea why this isn't working?You can wire an unlimited number of shared-ground switches in parallel to IPac inputs.
_____/____
| |
Ground ____|____/____|____Coin 1
As long as Ground and Coin1 are connected to the microswitch COM and NO tabs, it will work.
If you had bought a multimeter last month, you could easily troubleshoot this problem now. [/KiddingOnTheSquare] :P >:D
Scott
Post by: javeryh on January 28, 2021, 06:03:15 pm
So... I had always thought I could wire 2 buttons to one input on the iPAC2 but this doesn't seem to be the case. For my coin door I wired both switches on the coin mechs to COIN1 and COIN2 on the iPAC2. I also added two additional switches that you can press using the coin return. I wired these directly to COIN1 and COIN2 on the iPAC2 as well. So each of COIN1 and COIN2 have 2 wires coming out of the screw terminal. All 4 buttons share GROUND. The switches in the mechs work fine but the switches behind the coin returns do not work at all. Is this because they are sharing GROUND? Should I just wire these to some unused screw terminals and change the behavior in MAME? Any idea why this isn't working?You can wire an unlimited number of shared-ground switches in parallel to IPac inputs.
_____/____
| |
Ground ____|____/____|____Coin 1
As long as Ground and Coin1 are connected to the microswitch COM and NO tabs, it will work.
If you had bought a multimeter last month, you could easily troubleshoot this problem now. [/KiddingOnTheSquare] :P >:D
Scott
Thanks. This is what I thought but it makes no sense that 2 buttons work and 2 do not. This is what I did:
NO on P1 Coin Mech switch to COIN1 on iPAC2
NO on P1 Coin Return switch to COIN1 on iPAC2
NO on P1 Coin Mech switch to COIN2 on iPAC2
NO on P1 Coin Return switch to COIN2 on iPAC2
GND on P2 Coin Mech switch to GND on P2 Coin Return switch to GND on P1 Coin Mech switch to GND on P1 Coin Return switch to GND on Button 3 on CP to GND, etc. all the way to GND on iPAC2.
Both Coin Mech switches work but the switches I installed behind the Coin Returns do not. I even tried another switch thinking that maybe I had a bad one (two, actually) and it didn't work either. All the of wiring seems correct. Makes no sense!
Yeah... it's about time I sprung for a multimeter - would it be able to detect a signal that faint?
Post by: Arroyo on January 28, 2021, 07:28:53 pm
Regarding the scanlines, the two I mentioned HLSL & GLSL are highly useful for LCD’s to mimic the geometry, scan lines, phosphor bloom, and curvature of an original CRT. Since you actually have a CRT, you probably just need the scan lines as your CRT has a higher resolution than a standard 240p arcade monitor. Both of the solutions above would work and BGFX is the engine for HLSL. You can also checkout GLSL as well and just focus on the scanlines for any of the above solutions. I have tutorials to post if interested.
Post by: PL1 on January 28, 2021, 07:43:51 pm
All the of wiring seems correct. Makes no sense!Agreed. This is where the meter will help you figure out what is actually happening.
If you aren't sure which meter to get, we'll help you find one with the features you want/need.
- Digital meter instead of analog. There are some tests where you need an analog meter, but they are few and far between.
- Auto-ranging.
- Diode check.
Yeah... it's about time I sprung for a multimeter - would it be able to detect a signal that faint?Yes.
You're not testing for a signal, you're testing for a path from ground to the input port.
- When the switch is not pressed, there is no path for the electrons to flow so the voltage (think water pressure) on the input port is at a logic high.
- When the switch is pressed, there is a path for the electrons to flow so the voltage on the input port is pulled to a logic low. (think someone flushes the toilet while you're taking a shower and the lower cold water pressure causes the shower to get really hot)
How to test the switches and wiring:
- Remove power so you don't fry the meter.
- Set meter to continuity/ohms.
- Touch the red lead to the black lead. The meter should indicate continuity (beep)/short. (<2 ohms)
- Connect the black lead to your ground daisy-chain and the red lead to the IPac input you want to test.
- When no button connected to the red lead IPac input is pressed, the meter should indicate no continuity (no beep)/open.
-- If it shows continuity, you might be on the NC terminal instead of the NO or there might be a short to ground somewhere on the IPac input line.
- When a button connected to the red lead IPac input is pressed, the meter should indicate continuity (beep)/short. (<2 ohms)
-- You should get continuity when you press the coin mech switch (currently working) and you should get continuity when you press the switch behind the coin return. (currently not working)
-- You can also test the switch by putting the meter leads on COM and NC. There should be continuity when the switch is not pressed and no continuity when the switch is pressed. This should confirm that the microswitch nub is being pushed far enough to move the pole from the NC contact to the NO contact.
Scott
Post by: Zebidee on January 28, 2021, 11:48:30 pm
- When a button connected to the red lead IPac input is pressed, the meter should indicate continuity (beep)/short. (<2 ohms)
Make sure you get a multimeter that goes "BEEP" when you test continuity. It saves you a lot of time if checking a lot of connections.
My $10 hardware special DMM doesn't do that, that alone is worth paying $50 for.
Also if you can get one that does milliamps (mA), and capacitance function would be nice too.
Post by: UnclearHermit on January 29, 2021, 06:50:14 am
My last multimeter was about £9 and replaced an old analogue one. It beeps for a continuity test, which I'd agree is absolutely vital. The thought of trying to troubleshoot wiring without it...! :(
Post by: javeryh on January 29, 2021, 09:53:28 am
That video looks sweet Javery, you must be pumped to see that thing scrolling through those marquees.
Regarding the scanlines, the two I mentioned HLSL & GLSL are highly useful for LCD’s to mimic the geometry, scan lines, phosphor bloom, and curvature of an original CRT. Since you actually have a CRT, you probably just need the scan lines as your CRT has a higher resolution than a standard 240p arcade monitor. Both of the solutions above would work and BGFX is the engine for HLSL. You can also checkout GLSL as well and just focus on the scanlines for any of the above solutions. I have tutorials to post if interested.
I don't think I'll ever get tired of scrolling through the marquees. I've even let it dictate the games on the cabinet - if I can't find good marquee art it's out LOL. The one game that is currently breaking that rule is Teeter Totter. It's a stupid spinner game that I had never even played before setting this up but it is stupidly addictive for some reason. Game looks like it must have been made 5 minutes after video games were invented! I wish someone would make a sweet marquee for it.
I would LOVE for you to post your tutorials on getting the scanlines just right. I tried enabling them yesterday and the games looked much better than without them but it wasn't perfect. I'm sure there is some combo of settings that gets it very close though and I'd love a walkthrough. :cheers:
All the of wiring seems correct. Makes no sense!Agreed. This is where the meter will help you figure out what is actually happening.
If you aren't sure which meter to get, we'll help you find one with the features you want/need.
- Digital meter instead of analog. There are some tests where you need an analog meter, but they are few and far between.
- Auto-ranging.
- Diode check.Yeah... it's about time I sprung for a multimeter - would it be able to detect a signal that faint?Yes.
You're not testing for a signal, you're testing for a path from ground to the input port.
- When the switch is not pressed, there is no path for the electrons to flow so the voltage (think water pressure) on the input port is at a logic high.
- When the switch is pressed, there is a path for the electrons to flow so the voltage on the input port is pulled to a logic low. (think someone flushes the toilet while you're taking a shower and the lower cold water pressure causes the shower to get really hot)
How to test the switches and wiring:
- Remove power so you don't fry the meter.
- Set meter to continuity/ohms.
- Touch the red lead to the black lead. The meter should indicate continuity (beep)/short. (<2 ohms)
- Connect the black lead to your ground daisy-chain and the red lead to the IPac input you want to test.
- When no button connected to the red lead IPac input is pressed, the meter should indicate no continuity (no beep)/open.
-- If it shows continuity, you might be on the NC terminal instead of the NO or there might be a short to ground somewhere on the IPac input line.
- When a button connected to the red lead IPac input is pressed, the meter should indicate continuity (beep)/short. (<2 ohms)
-- You should get continuity when you press the coin mech switch (currently working) and you should get continuity when you press the switch behind the coin return. (currently not working)
-- You can also test the switch by putting the meter leads on COM and NC. There should be continuity when the switch is not pressed and no continuity when the switch is pressed. This should confirm that the microswitch nub is being pushed far enough to move the pole from the NC contact to the NO contact.
OK I'm sold. I just need to figure out which one to buy. I don't want to break the bank - just want something that will do the job. The only thing I can think of that could be "bad" is the molex connector I soldered wires to in order to be able to take out the CP. Maybe something is going on there that is shorting out the signal. If you look at this pic you can see that I have connected 1/2 of the molex connector:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210125/70eb1b3fbdef6730062d6befeef32718.jpg)
This was in my computer parts bin so I cut it in half because one side was male and the other side was female so I thought I could use it. There was another 2 wires coming out of it that had another connection (to connect to pins on a motherboard for power, I think) but I just snipped them. Maybe that's where the signal is getting lost? Anyway, I ordered a set of male/female quick disconnects that should arrive tonight. I'll cut out the molex connector and just connect all 5 wires with the quick disconnects. If that doesn't work... I don't even know.
Make sure you get a multimeter that goes "BEEP" when you test continuity. It saves you a lot of time if checking a lot of connections.
I will make sure! I need this to be simple for my simple brain to comprehend. One of my goals with this project was to push myself and learn new stuff and so far I think I'm getting there.
Looking really nice!
My last multimeter was about £9 and replaced an old analogue one. It beeps for a continuity test, which I'd agree is absolutely vital. The thought of trying to troubleshoot wiring without it...! :(
Thanks! This is all new to me but hopefully I'll be able to use a lot of what I'm learning on the next cabinet... assuming I survive after my wife finds out. ;D
Post by: javeryh on January 29, 2021, 11:35:17 am
In other news, the bgfx setting looks pretty good so far.
Post by: bperkins01 on January 29, 2021, 12:37:07 pm
you you are inserting coins at lightning speed
the wires for the switches are grounded someplace.
Post by: javeryh on January 29, 2021, 01:10:48 pm
its wired wrong.. 5 and 6 are coin1 and coin2 when you map them to the standard mame keyboard
you you are inserting coins at lightning speed
the wires for the switches are grounded someplace.
yeah, I knew 5 and 6 were P1 and P2 coin... but when I'm in MAME no coins were being added unless the keypresses were happening too fast. Maybe I screwed up my ground when I added the coin switches? I went to the "last" button on the CP (the one that only had one ground connection because of the daisy chain) and added a second ground wire to it to run to the 4 coin switches (to continue the ground chain). I'm pretty sure that's correct because if I had a 4th "action button" on the CP, the daisy chain would have continued to there - continuing to the coin door switches should work just fine.
Could the issue be that I'm using cherry switches for the coin door and Gold Leaf buttons from Ultimarc as the CP buttons? Those do not care which pin you use for ground and what you use to connect to the iPAC but the cherry switches are specific. Maybe the ground connection gets lost there?
:dunno
Post by: bperkins01 on January 29, 2021, 01:15:39 pm
unless...
On the switches - there are 3 tabs
You could have the wires connected to the 'normally closed' tabs vs. the 'normally open' ones
maybe its that?
Post by: javeryh on January 29, 2021, 01:39:04 pm
1 common ground for all of the switches is fine.. if you disconnect the coin door and it stops.. then you have a wire that is supposed to be connected to the ipac somehow shorting to ground.. the switches (unless they are broken) have nothing to do with it.
unless...
On the switches - there are 3 tabs
You could have the wires connected to the 'normally closed' tabs vs. the 'normally open' ones
maybe its that?
I disconnected the coin door and it stopped. So something is definitely happening there. I do not think it is the switches because yesterday both coin mechs functioned properly and both switches I installed behind the coin return did not. I then tested a couple more loose switches and none worked. I think it's statistically unlikely that all of my cherry switches are malfunctioning. I also tried connecting to NC like you suggested and nothing.
I think it has to be my rigged up Molex connection behaving weirdly. I am expecting male/female quick disconnects to arrive tonight from Amazon so tomorrow I will be able to wire directly to each switch and test them out one by one. I'm actually out of wire and quick disconnects or I'd just do it now. I was down to green solid core wiring in my supply bin so now I can't even tell the wires apart... of course! :cheers:
Post by: Zebidee on January 29, 2021, 05:14:01 pm
Make sure you don't get a machine that goes "BING" - those are very expensive and usually only used in hospitals to impress administrators!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arCITMfxvEc&t=7s
Post by: javeryh on January 29, 2021, 05:30:46 pm
Finding the shorts in your switches will be easy once you have a multimeter that goes "BEEP"!
Make sure you don't get a machine that goes "BING" - those are very expensive and usually only used in hospitals to impress administrators
;D
Could I be having a MAME/RocketLauncher issue that would somehow make these buttons not work properly? When I go into the MAME settings (Tab -> Input (general) -> Other Controls) both Coin 1 and Coin2 are greyed out. None of the other controls are like this.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210129/3ff4b0c76d66c4b93dbd5d2c71711421.jpg)
I just rewired everything very carefully and now none of the 4 switches are working. Maybe something got messed up on the software side? I've never had an issue with wiring buttons like this before.
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
EDIT: I think there’s a break in the ground wire. I unplugged everything and just tested each wire from the iPac plus ground from the CP with a spare switch and it worked on all 4 wires. So something has to be wrong on the coin door wiring side of things. More testing...
Post by: javeryh on January 29, 2021, 05:55:47 pm
https://youtu.be/6d9BmJ9IO7I
I’m tweaking the ground wire and the only switch that is connected is the coin mech switch that came with the coin door. This should not be able to be activated unless the switch is pressed but it just keeps adding quarters without touching it.
EDIT: holy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- I’m so stupid. The bottom switches have ground and NO reversed. Of course I learned this AFTER cutting all the wiring out and testing each one using the wires from the iPAC. So now I need to rewire it again but I actually think it will work. 2 days of this nonsense LOL.
Post by: bperkins01 on January 29, 2021, 09:00:04 pm
For all the great work you have done - add a meter to your toolkit.
Great looking cab...
Post by: PL1 on January 29, 2021, 11:38:02 pm
OK I'm sold. I just need to figure out which one to buy. I don't want to break the bank - just want something that will do the job.Consider the Fluke 106 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HEAMLCO/). Review here (https://testmeterpro.com/fluke-106/).
- Best mix of features, reliability, and price IMHO.
If you want a backlit display (I wish mine had one) and a magnetic hanger strap, step up to the Fluke 107 (https://www.amazon.com/Fluke-107-Current-Handheld-Multimeter/dp/B00HEAMMIC/). Review here (https://testmeterpro.com/fluke-107-review/).
The Fluke 101 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HE6MIJY/) is less expensive than the 106 and 107, but it doesn't allow you to measure current. :(
The only other downside to the Fluke 101/106/107 is that they don't have a "kickstand".
Another option is the Klein MM400 (https://www.amazon.com/Multimeter-Auto-Ranging-Klein-Tools-MM400/dp/B018EXZO8M/). Review here (https://testmeterpro.com/klein-tools-mm400-review/).
- One feature that you may find annoying is that unlike the Fluke meters that have separate switch settings for VDC and VAC, the Klein has only one switch setting for VAC/VDC. It defaults to VAC so every time you turn the knob to VAC/VDC to measure DC voltage, you have to remember to press the select button. :banghead:
There are some other options mentioned here (https://testmeterpro.com/best-cheap-multimeter/), but one of the four meters mentioned above with a lead accessory kit like this one (https://www.amazon.com/Electrical-Multimeter-Alligator-Probes-Professional/dp/B074L1NXRX/), a carry case (to protect the meter and organize/store spare leads), and/or a magnetic hanger strap should cover pretty much everything.
Scott
Post by: javeryh on January 30, 2021, 01:30:44 pm
so - if you had a meter you would have saved a day or two of figuring out a wiring issue? :)
For all the great work you have done - add a meter to your toolkit.
Great looking cab...
Yup seems like that would be the case but never underestimate the depths of my stupidity. I got so frustrated so I ended up cutting out all of the coin door wiring because I was convinced something had to be wrong even though I couldn't see it... aaaaaand I'm out of wire. So I'm off to Home Depot knowing full well they don't even sell the correct gauge wire but they do sell some "bell wire" which is 2 strands of red and white 20 gauge wire wrapped together so I'll get some of that. I do not feel like waiting another 2 days for Amazon to deliver.
If I had just checked the switches before tearing it all apart I'd be done! This is right in line with my every day life though - if there is a hard way to do something I will definitely find it.
Consider the Fluke 106 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HEAMLCO/). Review here (https://testmeterpro.com/fluke-106/).
- Best mix of features, reliability, and price IMHO.
If you want a backlit display (I wish mine had one) and a magnetic hanger strap, step up to the Fluke 107 (https://www.amazon.com/Fluke-107-Current-Handheld-Multimeter/dp/B00HEAMMIC/). Review here (https://testmeterpro.com/fluke-107-review/).
The Fluke 101 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HE6MIJY/) is less expensive than the 106 and 107, but it doesn't allow you to measure current. :(
The only other downside to the Fluke 101/106/107 is that they don't have a "kickstand".
Another option is the Klein MM400 (https://www.amazon.com/Multimeter-Auto-Ranging-Klein-Tools-MM400/dp/B018EXZO8M/). Review here (https://testmeterpro.com/klein-tools-mm400-review/).
- One feature that you may find annoying is that unlike the Fluke meters that have separate switch settings for VDC and VAC, the Klein has only one switch setting for VAC/VDC. It defaults to VAC so every time you turn the knob to VAC/VDC to measure DC voltage, you have to remember to press the select button. :banghead:
There are some other options mentioned here (https://testmeterpro.com/best-cheap-multimeter/), but one of the four meters mentioned above with a lead accessory kit like this one (https://www.amazon.com/Electrical-Multimeter-Alligator-Probes-Professional/dp/B074L1NXRX/), a carry case (to protect the meter and organize/store spare leads), and/or a magnetic hanger strap should cover pretty much everything.
Thanks! I will start reading and look at these models. I have another project in mind after this one that will involve some more wiring so at some point I'm going to have to bite the bullet...
Post by: javeryh on January 30, 2021, 02:42:56 pm
Incredible.
Post by: Arroyo on January 30, 2021, 08:50:04 pm
.Seriously though, way to persevere, the hard way. One more box checked, off to the next one.
Post by: javeryh on January 31, 2021, 01:20:21 pm
Yay! Now get a meter
Seriously though, way to persevere, the hard way. One more box checked, off to the next one.
Thanks bud. Today I'll be putting the SmartStrip in the cabinet so the back door can be closed and also making the coin box. Just waiting on the monitor glass now and construction will be finished.
I do have some software nonsense going on right now (of course):
- Games suddenly have audio glitches. The audio glitches were definitely not present when I was testing things at my desk with my 1080p LCD so maybe it has something to do with the CRT? Or maybe because of enabling the bgfx settings?
- This leads into the next issue - the CRT is not displaying things at "full screen" and I cannot fix this because the settings board where you can move the picture around, increase horizontal and vertical lengths, etc. is non-responsive. I am reasonably certain I damaged it when taking apart the monitor. There was a green LED indicator on the board that no longer comes on and pressing the buttons does not make the OSD pop up. Honestly, there is a 75% chance I am going to replace the monitor with a LCD if I can find a 4:3 the right size. This CRT was not worth the trouble - I still need to emulate scanlines because the resolution (1024x768) is too high and with all the stuff I've seen others do with scanlines and rounding the corners, mimicking the CRT "bubble", etc. is plenty good enough for me for a MAME project.
- I'm only getting audio out of the left speaker. It's not a huge deal because it still sounds OK but obviously I'd like to get the right speaker working. When I tore apart the PC speakers, the pins came off completely on one side so I'm guessing it is related? I plugged it all back in but maybe the connection isn't being made.
Overall I'm quite pleased with the cabinet so far - it looks great in person - but I'd really like to sort these things out so it works how I originally envisioned it.
:cheers:
Post by: Zebidee on January 31, 2021, 11:05:47 pm
Honestly, there is a 75% chance I am going to replace the monitor with a LCD if I can find a 4:3 the right size. This CRT was not worth the trouble
Can you find a standard component-input TV locally?
Your core2duo E8500 + cheap low-profile ATI/AMD video card + CRT_emulator driver + GreenAntz RGB/VGA to component transcoder = authentic 15khz CRT monitor for your cab
It would be easy to mount in your cab (easier than your current monitor was anyway). Your CPU would handle the games better, you could use Groovymame if you want to (you want!) in real arcade modes and match refresh rates with no (or almost no) CPU performance hit, no more need for fake scanlines, artifacts, blurring, etc.
On the other hand, you might be able to fix the settings board on your VGA monitor, maybe is just a loose connection or something simple like that?
Post by: javeryh on February 01, 2021, 09:11:53 am
Honestly, there is a 75% chance I am going to replace the monitor with a LCD if I can find a 4:3 the right size. This CRT was not worth the trouble
Can you find a standard component-input TV locally?
Your core2duo E8500 + cheap low-profile ATI/AMD video card + CRT_emulator driver + GreenAntz RGB/VGA to component transcoder = authentic 15khz CRT monitor for your cab
It would be easy to mount in your cab (easier than your current monitor was anyway). Your CPU would handle the games better, you could use Groovymame if you want to (you want!) in real arcade modes and match refresh rates with no (or almost no) CPU performance hit, no more need for fake scanlines, artifacts, blurring, etc.
On the other hand, you might be able to fix the settings board on your VGA monitor, maybe is just a loose connection or something simple like that?
I could probably find a TV. Not sure about the size though - 17" wasn't too popular. 13", 19" and 20" were common. 13" would be too small and 19" would be too big. Can't hurt to look though. How would I turn it on? Most TVs don't automatically wake like a monitor when it senses the signal.
I tried fixing the connection the last time I had the monitor out of the cab but couldn't actually figure out what was going on. It is connected via 4 pins on the CRT's PCB and the connection seemed secure but it's obviously not getting any power. There was no break in the wires anywhere that I could see on either end.
:dunno
Post by: Zebidee on February 01, 2021, 10:12:15 am
I could probably find a TV. Not sure about the size though - 17" wasn't too popular. 13", 19" and 20" were common. 13" would be too small and 19" would be too big. Can't hurt to look though. How would I turn it on? Most TVs don't automatically wake like a monitor when it senses the signal.
Forgot yours was as small as 17" - less common size for TVs. But yeah if you can find it.
I'm using 20-21" cheap Chinese CRT TVs and component-modding them for cabs. There are smaller versions like 17" around here. A 17" might not have external component inputs, but often the jungle chip will have pins/inputs anyway. If so, probably all you need a a few capacitors and resistors and you're good to go.
I know a couple of tricks for getting TVs to come on once power is applied. Usually there are service menu options if you have an original remote and dig around, and the trick is googling out how to enter the hidden "service menu". Another trick is to simulate a button-press on power-up with a capacitor (for TVs that demand a power-button press to start). A similar trick can even be used to simulate a remote power button, but you might need a schematic or datasheet for that.
Quote
I tried fixing the connection the last time I had the monitor out of the cab but couldn't actually figure out what was going on. It is connected via 4 pins on the CRT's PCB and the connection seemed secure but it's obviously not getting any power. There was no break in the wires anywhere that I could see on either end.
:dunno
Diagnosing stuff like this will be easier with a multimeter. With that you can check for connectivity and voltages to narrow down the issue. Having said that, it often comes down to some simple oversight, so visually check and check again cables (in right way around?) and connectivity and if anything looks wrong.
Post by: Jimbo on February 01, 2021, 10:20:41 am
Post by: javeryh on February 11, 2021, 07:35:11 am
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210211/98a6a876f7105fd64ff61483145bcaf2.jpg)
Only thing left to do is fix the right speaker (I ordered a $10 amp instead of trying to fix the pcb I mangled) and figure out how to catch coins on the inside but it is otherwise finished.
I guess I’m also going to tweak the game list eventually. It’s been up and running for a few weeks and I’ve been playing it but there are some games that I doubt I’ll ever really play and I won’t miss them if they aren’t there. I’m sure I’m also missing a bunch that I don’t know about or just overlooked. I need to start looking at “hidden gem” lists and stuff like that...
Post by: bperkins01 on February 11, 2021, 08:02:13 am
Post by: Arroyo on February 11, 2021, 08:21:39 am
Post by: javeryh on February 11, 2021, 10:01:29 am
Very nice looking machine - well executed :applaud:
Looks great Javery, very professional. I think you will end up enjoying this one a lot for many years. :applaud:
Thanks guys. I am happy enough to just get to 75% of the bar that the two of you have set around here with your cabs. :notworthy:
Now what? I need another project or I'm going to go crazy and I can't get into the garage for a couple of months most likely due to the 20 degree weather and 2ft. of snow. I'll probably try and shoot a video walkthrough on my phone as well as finish up the odds and ends but motivation is low... maybe I'll start preliminary research on the next cab, which honestly might be "bperkins inspired". I don't actually own a standard 2P cabinet.... hmm...
Post by: lomoverde on February 11, 2021, 11:50:21 am
Post by: Zebidee on February 11, 2021, 12:56:57 pm
I may need to mine your thread for ideas later :D
Post by: Jimbo on February 11, 2021, 01:48:22 pm
Post by: firedance on February 11, 2021, 02:44:54 pm
Now what? I need another project or I'm going to go crazy and I can't get into the garage for a couple of months most likely due to the 20 degree weather and 2ft. of snow. I'll probably try and shoot a video walkthrough on my phone as well as finish up the odds and ends but motivation is low... maybe I'll start preliminary research on the next cab, which honestly might be "bperkins inspired". I don't actually own a standard 2P cabinet.... hmm...
65" vertical cab it is then ;D
Post by: vertexguy on February 11, 2021, 04:45:43 pm
Post by: nexusmtz on February 11, 2021, 11:30:20 pm
Post by: javeryh on February 12, 2021, 01:24:39 pm
:angry: :angry: :angry:
I need to take the CP off and check all the connections, which is going to be a pain. Ugh.
Post by: bperkins01 on February 12, 2021, 01:37:40 pm
use the continuity test feature.
.....
rinse
repeat
Post by: javeryh on February 12, 2021, 02:16:15 pm
buy a meter
use the continuity test feature.
.....
rinse
repeat
LOL - I ordered one finally.
Post by: PL1 on February 12, 2021, 02:44:06 pm
:applaud:buy a meterLOL - I ordered one finally.
Which model did you choose?
Scott
Post by: bperkins01 on February 12, 2021, 03:13:22 pm
:applaud:buy a meterLOL - I ordered one finally.
Which model did you choose?
Scott
You know its bad when the moderator is chiming in.. :P
Post by: PL1 on February 12, 2021, 05:51:32 pm
You know its bad when the moderator is chiming in.. :P:duckhunt
Just wondering if he chose one of the models suggested here (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,161994.msg1732253.html#msg1732253).
Scott
Post by: javeryh on February 12, 2021, 05:55:56 pm
Post by: Zebidee on February 12, 2021, 07:09:26 pm
I ended up going with a cheaper $20 one that had good reviews on Amazon.
\o/
The world is now a better place and we can finally stop nagging you :lol
Post by: javeryh on February 13, 2021, 03:27:43 pm
Post by: bperkins01 on February 13, 2021, 03:58:38 pm
Plug in the test leads
Turn it to continuity ..
touch the two leads together.. the meter should beep..
because a circuit is made..
Now you can test either end of a circuit.. and if there is a connection all the way through.. it will beep :)
If not.. its open..
I'm sure there are at least a few hundred videos on it.. But its the most basic diagnostic tool and you should quickly wish you had this for the last 20 years. :)
Post by: javeryh on February 13, 2021, 04:07:37 pm
The cabinet does not need to be on (in fact, off is better)
Plug in the test leads
Turn it to continuity ..
touch the two leads together.. the meter should beep..
because a circuit is made..
Now you can test either end of a circuit.. and if there is a connection all the way through.. it will beep :)
If not.. its open..
I'm sure there are at least a few hundred videos on it.. But its the most basic diagnostic tool and you should quickly wish you had this for the last 20 years. :)
Got it. In fact, couldn't be easier (just needed to find the right setting on the wheel of the multimeter). Buuuut... something is seriously weird with the wiring and I cannot figure it out. I took the CP off and started testing things - the buttons on the CP were all responding and the buttons on the coin door were not. OK, this was expected... but a minute later without doing anything NONE of them were responding, including the buttons on the CP, which have always worked fine. This led me to believe that the ground wire wasn't functioning properly and there is a loose connection somewhere along the way so I unscrewed the GND terminal, repositioned the wires and screwed them back in and now ALL buttons are functioning.
Great, right? But if it was just that loose connection then ALL buttons should have been affected but it was ONLY the coin door buttons that weren't registering before I opened it up. I'm afraid I didn't really fix anything but I guess I'll close it up since everything appears to be working...
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
EDIT: cab is closed up and working properly. Fingers crossed.
Post by: PL1 on February 13, 2021, 07:35:47 pm
So... how do I use this thing? I plugged in the red and black leads... do I need to have the cabinet turned on to check the connections (continuity?)?No. Never try to measure resistance/test for continuity with power applied to the component or circuit.
- The batteries in the meter provide the teeny tiny amount of current required for resistance measurements/continuity tests.
- If you try to measure resistance/test for continuity with power applied to the circuit, at best you will get an inaccurate reading and at worst you will damage the meter. :scared
+1 on watching a few YouTube videos like this one to learn how to use your meter.
- The leads are backward at 8:41, but the rest of the video looks/sounds good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts0EVc9vXcs
Scott
Post by: javeryh on February 15, 2021, 11:19:48 am
So... how do I use this thing? I plugged in the red and black leads... do I need to have the cabinet turned on to check the connections (continuity?)?No. Never try to measure resistance/test for continuity with power applied to the component or circuit.
- The batteries in the meter provide the teeny tiny amount of current required for resistance measurements/continuity tests.
- If you try to measure resistance/test for continuity with power applied to the circuit, at best you will get an inaccurate reading and at worst you will damage the meter. :scared
+1 on watching a few YouTube videos like this one to learn how to use your meter.
- The leads are backward at 8:41, but the rest of the video looks/sounds good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts0EVc9vXcs
Scott
Thanks. I think I've got it. I was able to at least test the connectivity and it all seems to be working. I get beeps on all buttons/switches. I still hold my breath when turning on the cabinet though. Like today, I powered it on and it booted up fine but nothing was responsive right away. I could not move up and down the game list, which has never happened. Then finally the P1 Start button worked so I was able to jump into a game (the one it booted to on the list) and THEN everything started working so I could exit, select another game, insert coins, etc. So weird. Makes me think the PC is what is acting weird and not my wiring.
When it works though... it's GREAT. Love this cabinet.
Post by: javeryh on February 22, 2021, 11:12:16 am
Code: [Select]
coin_impulse 10in rom.ini. I created dowild.ini, docastle.ini and asteroids.ini in my ini folder and added that one line and now all games are working as expected. Easy fix that caused a lot of pain since I probably rewired my coin door several times for no reason.
Next up is likely trying to switch over to GroovyMAME because of some audio glitches I'm getting in Ms. Pac-Man, Donkey Kong and some others. My research so far (thanks Zebidee) says that this is due to the refresh rate of my monitor not syncing up with the refresh rate of the game - GroovyMAME is supposed to be able to solve this. I'm very hesitant though because if I completely bork everything I'm going to cry.
The software is killing me though. Yesterday I left the cab on for like 5 hours and when I came back to it the spinner was no longer responding. Rebooting solved the issue. Also, on 2 separate occasions when exiting into Windows, the "2" key has been pressed repeatedly for some reason. It's not P2 Start related because that seems to be working just fine. Pressing backspace on the keyboard stopped the 2s from being pressed and things went back to normal. So so strange. I have been making a lot of changes trying to troubleshoot problems as they pop up so maybe I changed something somewhere that is causing it? Doesn't seem to affect regular gameplay so I'll just assume it's OK.
Other than the audio and the occasional hiccup, it has been playing great. Lots of fun with a game list that's about 180 games long. It's a bit much and I'm slowly trimming down the list... and also realizing I don't like as many horizontal games as I should. Right now I have X-Men, Final Fight, Double Dragon, Simpsons, TMNT, etc. but I really don't care for beat-em-ups - especially on a 1P cabinet. Can't see myself ever playing them but I'm sure guests will ask. Same thing with NBA Jam/Hangtime, etc.
I may end up building a simplified version of this cab this summer - my nephew is starting to show an interest and my sister asked if building one would be possible. I didn't commit yet because I'm not sure I need it to be a chore but it would give me something else to work on... Probably just stick to the "Tully" design with an LCD and no dynamic marquee to make it simple... we shall see...
Post by: vertexguy on February 22, 2021, 11:38:48 am
Yesterday I left the cab on for like 5 hours and when I came back to it the spinner was no longer responding. Rebooting solved the issue. Also, on 2 separate occasions when exiting into Windows, the "2" key has been pressed repeatedly for some reason.
Just some ideas to help get your trouble shooting gears turning...
Only idea that comes to mind for these issues at the moment is Windows. Make sure Windows power saving options are completely disabled across all your devices. Otherwise after a while of idling windows will attempt to power down usb devices as an example (presumably your trackball is one of them).
The multiple button press thing is tougher, but maybe related to windows accessibility? If you hold down any keyboard key for very long windows accessibility will kick in and could possibly do some weird stuff. Completely disable that.
Post by: javeryh on February 22, 2021, 01:50:40 pm
Yesterday I left the cab on for like 5 hours and when I came back to it the spinner was no longer responding. Rebooting solved the issue. Also, on 2 separate occasions when exiting into Windows, the "2" key has been pressed repeatedly for some reason.
Just some ideas to help get your trouble shooting gears turning...
Only idea that comes to mind for these issues at the moment is Windows. Make sure Windows power saving options are completely disabled across all your devices. Otherwise after a while of idling windows will attempt to power down usb devices as an example (presumably your trackball is one of them).
The multiple button press thing is tougher, but maybe related to windows accessibility? If you hold down any keyboard key for very long windows accessibility will kick in and could possibly do some weird stuff. Completely disable that.
Thanks. I disabled Windows accessibility. Good call on that - it can only screw stuff up.
I think I just figured out the spinner issue. I bought a cheap wireless mini keyboard with a mouse touchpad that came with a USB dongle. Seems like that was the issue. Without the dongle plugged in, the spinner is working perfectly fine. I had multimouse set to 1 in mame.ini but it was still getting confused. My guess is that on boot sometimes it would recognize the keyboard/mouse and not the spinner. I guess I'll still be plugging in a giant USB keyboard for troubleshooting. No big deal I guess.
So I'm back to 100% functionality.
Post by: Zebidee on February 22, 2021, 04:52:52 pm
Next up is likely trying to switch over to GroovyMAME because of some audio glitches I'm getting in Ms. Pac-Man, Donkey Kong and some others. My research so far (thanks Zebidee) says that this is due to the refresh rate of my monitor not syncing up with the refresh rate of the game - GroovyMAME is supposed to be able to solve this.
To be fair there are some other possible causes, but mismatching monitor/game refresh rates is the most likely. There are things you can do in MAME to minimise audio issues, but if you use Groovymame properly you don't need them as it matches game speed to natural refresh rate anyway, so the root cause of the problem goes away.
To isolate any frontend issues, try to run games properly without using the frontend first. It is possible Hyperspin introduces some sound errors. And check your audio settings in mame.ini.
For the bold and the daring, there are also the "portaudio" settings you can play with to reduce audio latency even more, but just try to get it working normally first.
Post by: yamatetsu on February 23, 2021, 03:16:55 am
GroovyMAME is supposed to be able to solve this. I'm very hesitant though because if I completely bork everything I'm going to cry.
Just use a drive snapshot program to make an image of c:. If you futz it up, you can write the image back and everything is fine again.
Post by: javeryh on February 23, 2021, 05:02:52 pm
GroovyMAME is supposed to be able to solve this. I'm very hesitant though because if I completely bork everything I'm going to cry.
Just use a drive snapshot program to make an image of c:. If you futz it up, you can write the image back and everything is fine again.
Good idea. I'm going to look into this.
Today, I "fixed" the jump-to letters in Hyperspin to match the rest of the artwork I'm using in the cabinet. It wasn't too hard and came out looking a lot better than the "stock" letters that come with HyperSpin.
https://youtu.be/mDguNE8PibE
I had to create 27 separate .png files using Inkscape but it wasn't too hard to figure out. The process is described in the video description. One more thing crossed off the list!
Post by: javeryh on February 25, 2021, 06:08:06 pm
Unfortunately, I can't just rename this file to "vector.ini" and call it a day. I tried making a mhavoc.ini file with the same contents and the lines looked pretty good but everything was very thick. Now, I don't think I've ever played an original Major Havoc so maybe this is how it is supposed to be but it seemed wrong to me.
Next I'll be going through the 10-12 vector games I'm running and see if I can get them to look right. Then I'm calling it on the software side. As for the cabinet itself, I still need to make a coin door shelf for a coin bucket and install the new amp I bought to fix the 1 speaker only issue I'm having. I think I want the new amp to sit on the coin door shelf so I can access the volume knob so I can't do that until I can get to the garage and cut a board.
I also just got a bunch of awesome looking Atari stickers that I need to find a spot for.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210225/db13633f1860e1c22cccd87f3b2082f2.jpg)
Post by: bobbyb13 on February 26, 2021, 01:46:44 am
Another day, another small software issue fixed... kind of. I finally got Asteroids to look right. All vector games look very flat with no glow even with hlsl and DirectX9 installed. But I got ahold of an asteroid.ini file and it looks 100x better. The bullets have the trail and so do the asteroids and everything has a slight glow.
Unfortunately, I can't just rename this file to "vector.ini" and call it a day. I tried making a mhavoc.ini file with the same contents and the lines looked pretty good but everything was very thick. Now, I don't think I've ever played an original Major Havoc so maybe this is how it is supposed to be but it seemed wrong to me.
Next I'll be going through the 10-12 vector games I'm running and see if I can get them to look right. Then I'm calling it on the software side. As for the cabinet itself, I still need to make a coin door shelf for a coin bucket and install the new amp I bought to fix the 1 speaker only issue I'm having. I think I want the new amp to sit on the coin door shelf so I can access the volume knob so I can't do that until I can get to the garage and cut a board.
I also just got a bunch of awesome looking Atari stickers that I need to find a spot for.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210225/db13633f1860e1c22cccd87f3b2082f2.jpg)
I really look forward to figuring out these .ini files for vectors. Hopefully soon!
And those stickers ARE awesome of course.
Post by: Arroyo on March 05, 2021, 07:52:52 am
Post by: javeryh on March 05, 2021, 09:27:36 am
Where did you get the Atari stickers? Those are pretty.
IJoeG over on KLOV prints them. They are on a thick stock and look great. The thread is HERE (https://forums.arcade-museum.com/threads/repro-model-number-and-warning-stickers-aluminum-vinyl.479430/).
Post by: Arroyo on March 05, 2021, 01:32:28 pm
Post by: javeryh on March 05, 2021, 02:18:04 pm
Didn’t know you were on KLOV. Thanks for posting!
yeah, I don't post there too often since I'm not messing with "real" arcade stuff but I do like reading all of the restoration threads and other stuff...
Post by: javeryh on March 21, 2021, 09:02:53 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210322/e014383b18b376834bd56d66d19273cd.jpg)
Trying to keep it simple so one front panel only.
Post by: javeryh on March 24, 2021, 10:40:33 am
(https://i.imgur.com/eQFKzf7.jpg)
Thanks TebJohnson for the marquee!
Post by: Mike A on March 24, 2021, 10:41:43 am
Post by: javeryh on March 24, 2021, 10:47:10 am
That is a pretty cab.
Thanks. High praise coming from you so I must be doing something right! :cheers:
Post by: Gilrock on March 24, 2021, 11:07:20 am
Post by: DaOld Man on March 24, 2021, 11:07:26 am
Post by: yotsuya on March 24, 2021, 11:13:16 am
But he doesn’t even know how to weld??!!That is a pretty cab.
Thanks. High praise coming from you so I must be doing something right! :cheers:
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: javeryh on March 24, 2021, 12:05:33 pm
Nice work James. Just like always!
Thanks. I think this is my best one... so far! Always trying to get a little better...
I'll admit I have no idea what a "Tully" cabinet is but in your description you make it sound like this is not a Tully. It looks like the same thing as what someone else is calling a Tully in another thread. So what is it that makes something a Tully and how is this different?
I suppose this is a modified Tully. There are specific plans that an old forum user, Louis Tully (he deleted all of his threads and left never to come back and I'm not sure why), came up with to get a cabinet out of one 4x8 sheet of material. markc74 refined the design for his excellent CUBE cabaret project. The top angles are slightly different and the front section is broken into two separate pieces so you get that nice looking curve on the profile. But it's basically a Tully.
If you do a search, there are plans/dimensions you can grab to build your own. It is a remarkably simple design and extremely comfortable to play at. Perfect CP height and a small footprint. Doesn't take over a room either. And within this basic design there is a lot of room to improvise with controls, monitor orientation, coin door, marquee design, speaker placement, etc. to make it personal.
Post by: yotsuya on March 24, 2021, 12:32:26 pm
Since it’s been a while, I’ll fill in some holes.Nice work James. Just like always!
Thanks. I think this is my best one... so far! Always trying to get a little better...I'll admit I have no idea what a "Tully" cabinet is but in your description you make it sound like this is not a Tully. It looks like the same thing as what someone else is calling a Tully in another thread. So what is it that makes something a Tully and how is this different?
I suppose this is a modified Tully. There are specific plans that an old forum user, Louis Tully (he deleted all of his threads and left never to come back and I'm not sure why), came up with to get a cabinet out of one 4x8 sheet of material. markc74 refined the design for his excellent CUBE cabaret project. The top angles are slightly different and the front section is broken into two separate pieces so you get that nice looking curve on the profile. But it's basically a Tully.
If you do a search, there are plans/dimensions you can grab to build your own. It is a remarkably simple design and extremely comfortable to play at. Perfect CP height and a small footprint. Doesn't take over a room either. And within this basic design there is a lot of room to improvise with controls, monitor orientation, coin door, marquee design, speaker placement, etc. to make it personal.
Tully was a good guy, and he loved the hobby, but he explained to me that he was very OCD and that it started to consume him. He told me he started to spend every waking moment trying to think of different projects or things he could turn into arcade cabinets. Some of you guys who are long time members might recall the time he created a render that turned a file cabinet into a cabaret type set up. Fortunately, I remember we convinced him the idea was ass ugly. I think that’s eventually lead to the Tully, if I’m not mistaken.
He was pretty OCD. A great example of this was his Super Mario Bros pedestal. It was outstanding, but the work he put into literally creating every single block was borderline manic. We admired the craftsmanship, but never really considered what it meant for him to hand carve ever single nook and cranny on each individual block using a broken Bic pen.
He told me that whenever he got into modes like that, he had to just walk away. Not step away for a bit, but literally walk away and never revisit it. He told me he had done that with a few other hobbies as well.
I mean, it doesn’t sound like a lot, but people know their own mental capabilities and what works best for them. He was a fun guy, I miss his opinions and banter, but if this was the right thing for him to do, then God bless him.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Vigo on March 24, 2021, 03:08:32 pm
Post by: thomas_surles on March 24, 2021, 03:26:09 pm
Post by: yotsuya on March 24, 2021, 03:47:06 pm
That mario pedestal was one of my all time favorite projects here. So much detail.What broke him was all that detail.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: PL1 on March 24, 2021, 04:10:49 pm
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155654.0;attach=363225;image)
Scott
Post by: javeryh on March 24, 2021, 05:20:37 pm
Post by: thomas_surles on March 24, 2021, 05:26:13 pm
I see. Im not one for detail. I just slap crap together all janky like and make it look pretty from the outside.That mario pedestal was one of my all time favorite projects here. So much detail.What broke him was all that detail.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Vigo on March 24, 2021, 07:21:42 pm
Post by: yotsuya on March 24, 2021, 08:26:12 pm
3D printing would have helped make that project less tedious.Yeah, he burned through a number of ball point pens just darkening in every single crack and crevice.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: bobbyb13 on March 25, 2021, 02:11:29 am
Fun design and good execution.
If he was so in tune with himself that he could see where he was headed and still be able to turn off the faucet then he is even more remarkable really.
Most who get that laser focused can't ever turn it off.
Bummed he isn't still part of the community.
Post by: Zebidee on March 25, 2021, 03:27:53 am
If so, channeling the manic phase into learning a new skill or hobby is a good idea. However, when the depression phase sets in everything becomes meaningless. Old obsessions are discarded. When the manic phase begins again they often search out that new thing rather than picking up the old.
Bipolar people are often also very intelligent and skilled in many areas, aka "polymaths". Highly knowledgeable and capable in multiple divergent fields (Leonardo da Vinci is a classic example).
Post by: javeryh on March 26, 2021, 11:36:48 am
(https://i.imgur.com/YAYv71t.jpeg)
I need to put the keyboard and mouse away and stop tinkering with this thing. It’s done but I’m trying to find a good game list. I don’t play Double Dragon or X-Men or Final Fight or TMNT, etc. but others might like them so they are hard to remove.
Post by: wp34 on April 04, 2021, 09:51:51 pm
Post by: thomas_surles on April 04, 2021, 10:00:54 pm
Post by: lomoverde on April 05, 2021, 08:41:09 am
Post by: Zebidee on April 06, 2021, 12:58:44 am
Post by: leapinlew on April 14, 2021, 07:13:57 pm
Post by: DaOld Man on April 15, 2021, 11:05:02 am
Post by: Raktageno on April 28, 2021, 01:36:39 pm
Post by: javeryh on April 28, 2021, 07:01:44 pm
Hopping in here after finding this build from Reddit. This is my opinion of the gold standard for a cabaret. I appreciate your cataloguing of this build as I plan to replicate it completely, of course I intend to give you full credit (more info in my Reddit DM). Plus, I already have a multimeter, so it sounds like I have a leg up!
I don't see a DM but I'd love to see another one of these built. Credit is nice but this was built off the back of others that came before me like markc74's CUBE cabaret and the Tully before that. In fact there are two excellent projects on the front page right now - lomoverde's Tully (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,164426.0/all.html) and thomas_surles's Ghosts N Goblins Tully (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,164624.0/all.html). Definitely check those out for ideas.
Please post pics of your build here to share with everyone - good luck!
Post by: Raktageno on May 03, 2021, 11:47:47 am
Hopping in here after finding this build from Reddit. This is my opinion of the gold standard for a cabaret. I appreciate your cataloguing of this build as I plan to replicate it completely, of course I intend to give you full credit (more info in my Reddit DM). Plus, I already have a multimeter, so it sounds like I have a leg up!
I don't see a DM but I'd love to see another one of these built. Credit is nice but this was built off the back of others that came before me like markc74's CUBE cabaret and the Tully before that. In fact there are two excellent projects on the front page right now - lomoverde's Tully (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,164426.0/all.html) and thomas_surles's Ghosts N Goblins Tully (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,164624.0/all.html). Definitely check those out for ideas.
Please post pics of your build here to share with everyone - good luck!
Thanks for the encouragement! I've started a new project thread for my build, though it may be a bit early. I had some questions that I think make a little more sense to include here rather than there:
- I see you went with the ServoStik. Was there a reason for this over the J-Stik Ball-Top? Between those two, they both appear to be able to switch between 4 and 8-way, but the latter is a bit less.
- Did you source your volcano buttons, or have them on hand? Additionally, are they lit and/or do they have lighting based on conditions? My apologies if you've already covered this.
- I haven't looked too much, but most single coin doors I can find have a yellow return button. Do you know if it's worth finding one with red already or getting the yellow and switching it out? I like the idea of a fully functional coin mech, but don't know if absolutely NEED people to bring their own quarters.
- I only have experience with the minipac. Did I read correctly that you used the I-pac 2? Any issues there?
Post by: javeryh on May 03, 2021, 12:28:41 pm
I see you went with the ServoStik. Was there a reason for this over the J-Stik Ball-Top? Between those two, they both appear to be able to switch between 4 and 8-way, but the latter is a bit less.
The J-Stik is just a standard joystick you can put in 4 or 8 way mode with a standard restrictor plate. It doesn't automatically switch for you so you are locked into one set up or the other unless you open up the panel and turn it underneath. The ServoStik comes with a motor and a special restrictor plate so that it auto switches based on software (whatever game is selected will cause the joystick to rotate the restrictor plate inder the panel to the correct orientartion). It is expensive but totally worth it (and note it doesn't come with the servo PCB, which is $29 more on top of the cost of the stick. No regrets - I love it.
Did you source your volcano buttons, or have them on hand? Additionally, are they lit and/or do they have lighting based on conditions? My apologies if you've already covered this.
I bought them from arcadeshop online. Very expensive for 2 buttons (I recall they were about $15 each plus shipping). They are lit and the wiring on that was tricky for me as a first time user of resistors... well, not really - once Scott (PL1) told me what to do, the actual wiring was simple. Just need one 220ohm resistor for each button and I pulled power from the iPac2. Otherwise they wire up like a normal pushbutton.
I haven't looked too much, but most single coin doors I can find have a yellow return button. Do you know if it's worth finding one with red already or getting the yellow and switching it out? I like the idea of a fully functional coin mech, but don't know if absolutely NEED people to bring their own quarters.
I think red is fairly common if you look around. I am planning to eventually switch mine out from yellow in order to match the red on the control panel from the volcano buttons. Also, I do not need quarters to play - the coin mechs work but I also glued some extra microswitches behind the coin return buttons so when you press them you get a credit without putting a quarter in. I did this to eliminate clutter on the control panel (I could have had a coin button there) and to mimic having to insert a coin before playing by bending down. Adds more authenticity, IMO.
I only have experience with the minipac. Did I read correctly that you used the I-pac 2? Any issues there?
No issues with the iPac2. In fact, the 4 playable cabinets in my basement all use them. Great product.
Post by: Raktageno on May 11, 2021, 11:35:57 am
Parts are starting to show up. I got some woodgrain adhesive that I consider acceptable, but t-molding will help further determine once it shows up later this week. I'm dragging my feet on picking up MDF since I'll need to borrow a vehicle that can transport 4x8 sheets unless I want to try and get it cut there (which is always a crapshoot). I just ordered buttons and am looking toward ordering other items, which is where my questions come in.
- I think I'm going to go with the J-Stik Ball-Top. I don't think I can justify the cost on the ServoStik. Problem is, I see neither of those have an option for a white ball, and Ultimarc doesn't appear to sell one individually. Any idea on where I'd get ahold of one?
- I'm concerned about screen visibility against the angle of the top shroud. Was there a method you used to yours? I'm intending to use an LCD mounted vertically, so I have concerns that the top of the screen will get tucked away.
- Additionally, to the question above, did you use clear or smoked plexi over the screen and marquee? (apologies if you covered this)
- As of now, I plan to use your control panel design to the letter. I think the trackball in place of the spinner will still work with your design. How can I go about getting this printed, and would you prefer I give you credit in some way?
- Have you found any titles specifically that this cabinet works really well for or against?
Post by: javeryh on May 11, 2021, 12:23:16 pm
I think I'm going to go with the J-Stik Ball-Top. I don't think I can justify the cost on the ServoStik. Problem is, I see neither of those have an option for a white ball, and Ultimarc doesn't appear to sell one individually. Any idea on where I'd get ahold of one?
Try Focus Attack. They have tons of colors and that's where I got mine.
I'm concerned about screen visibility against the angle of the top shroud. Was there a method you used to yours? I'm intending to use an LCD mounted vertically, so I have concerns that the top of the screen will get tucked away.
I am 6' tall and can see all the way to the back corner of the monitor panel standing at it normally. The top panel of the cabinet does not get in the way at all so I could have pushed the monitor as far back as I wanted and still had visibility (which is not far from how it ended up anyway). The CRT also helps in that there aren't viewing angle issues that LCDs can have but I think you will be OK wherever you end up putting the monitor.
Additionally, to the question above, did you use clear or smoked plexi over the screen and marquee? (apologies if you covered this)
I used 1/4" tempered gray glass (not plexiglas) with polished edges. If I recall correctly, it was tinted 10%.
As of now, I plan to use your control panel design to the letter. I think the trackball in place of the spinner will still work with your design. How can I go about getting this printed, and would you prefer I give you credit in some way?
I printed mine at GameOnGrafix. I would send you the files if I could but my 8 year old deleted them all somehow while she was supposed to be playing Minecraft on the main computer in my house (plus a LOT more stuff that I wish I had backed up). So whatever is posted in this thread is all that's left. Honestly, if you spend a couple of hours in Inkscape you will be able to do pretty much whatever you want - I never used a program like that before in my life until this project and I just watched some YouTube videos and started messing around until I got it to where I wanted. It's mostly just standard shapes and the "Data70" font. You can use whatever you want of the design - I don't really care about credit. I also strongly considered basing the art off of Minwah's Vertical Cabaret (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,132372.0/all.html), which I am leaning towards for the cabinets I'm currently working on.
Have you found any titles specifically that this cabinet works really well for or against?
Not yet. So far of the 150 or so games I've got on there they all seem to play just fine. I did have to tweak the sensitivity on the spinner in MAME on a game by game basis but it was simple. There is a post in the Main forum by KenToad that lists out the settings - I just followed that.
Post by: javeryh on January 19, 2022, 01:04:38 pm
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Post by: PL1 on January 19, 2022, 02:07:47 pm
Anyone know why all of a sudden my P1 Start button thinks it is the Exit button all of a sudden?You may find that a keyboard tester program is useful for troubleshooting this issue.
1. Is there a short between the P1 Start and Exit input wires?
- Do a resistance/continuity check between those IPac inputs -- with power off, of course -- it should read as open/no continuity.
2. Was the Exit button (UI Cancel) remapped in the MAME "Input (general)--User Interface" menu?
3. Is P1 Start somehow triggering the P1 Start + P2 Start = Exit shifted function?
- Probably won't be a constant ground applied to P2 Start input due to the way shifted functions work.
- You can test this possibility by disconnecting the P2 Start wire at the IPac.
-- If P1 Start still behaves like the Exit button, you can eliminate shifted functions.
-- If P1 Start doesn't behave like the Exit button, there could be a short that triggers shifted functions.
Scott
Post by: Daniel B. on December 29, 2022, 07:53:16 am
I got into candy cabs and don't currently have a wood cab, but I really think I'm going to try something like this in the future. You are the man. A $100 optiplex would be a huge upgrade for sure. I see them/use them often.
Post by: javeryh on January 05, 2023, 11:32:18 am
Anyone know why all of a sudden my P1 Start button thinks it is the Exit button all of a sudden?You may find that a keyboard tester program is useful for troubleshooting this issue.
1. Is there a short between the P1 Start and Exit input wires?
- Do a resistance/continuity check between those IPac inputs -- with power off, of course -- it should read as open/no continuity.
2. Was the Exit button (UI Cancel) remapped in the MAME "Input (general)--User Interface" menu?
3. Is P1 Start somehow triggering the P1 Start + P2 Start = Exit shifted function?
- Probably won't be a constant ground applied to P2 Start input due to the way shifted functions work.
- You can test this possibility by disconnecting the P2 Start wire at the IPac.
-- If P1 Start still behaves like the Exit button, you can eliminate shifted functions.
-- If P1 Start doesn't behave like the Exit button, there could be a short that triggers shifted functions.
Thanks for the tips. I will definitely start messing with things early this year now that I do not have any active projects on my plate.
So... this only happens like 1 out of every 10 times I boot the cabinet. It's so weird. I actually haven't troubleshooted yet because the cabinet is totally playable after a reboot if it doesn't work the first time. It also likes to periodically tell me that one of the computer fans is not connected and refuse to boot... but it is connected and this also only happens 1 out of every 10 times. It's annoying for sure so I think I just need to replace the PC at some point.
I came across this build in my saved reddit posts that I was going through on a slow, holiday remote work day and came back and signed back in after 15 years to tell you how incredible this is. I really appreciate your threads and builds. I've read every post about this build and the twins for your family members.
I got into candy cabs and don't currently have a wood cab, but I really think I'm going to try something like this in the future. You are the man. A $100 optiplex would be a huge upgrade for sure. I see them/use them often.
Thanks a lot for the kind words. I'm glad you like it - I probably make it seem 100x harder to build than it actually is because I'm not that smart and I overthink every little detail. You should definitely build one - these cabaret cabs are really fun and barely take up any space in the house. I love them. :cheers:
Post by: Zebidee on January 05, 2023, 05:49:45 pm
A short occurring during startup/reprogramming times can make the IPAC work weirdly, especially the shift function, or even not work at all. So, ensure *all* buttons are not shorted/pressed at those times.
IPACs use the LED for error reporting. When you turn everything on, observe the IPAC closely. The LED will blink a number of times: once (USB) or twice (PS2), then stays on, is good/normal. Any other behaviour indicates an error of some kind. If LED stays off it indicates an IPAC connection/driver issue. If the LED flashes 3+ times then it suggests a shorting problem: To narrow it down, count the flashes and refer to the table (near bottom of this page: https://www.arcadeworlduk.com/pages/IPAC-2-Code-Table.html).
EDIT: here is the same LED flashing error code table, but from an Ultimarc site. For some reason it was harder to find this link: http://www.ultimarc2.com/jpac2.html
I've found this to be very helpful for tracking down CP shorts.
Post by: yamatetsu on January 06, 2023, 09:47:18 am
It also likes to periodically tell me that one of the computer fans is not connected and refuse to boot... but it is connected and this also only happens 1 out of every 10 times. It's annoying for sure so I think I just need to replace the PC at some point.
Check your BIOS. My ASUS board has an option advanced settings/boot/wait for 'F1' if error. If this is enabled, on every error that occurs the computer stops booting and you have to press F1 to reboot. My computer also didn't recognize some fan and refused to boot, sometimes up to 20-30 times. So I disabled that option, now I get some indignant beeps and the computer boots no matter what.
Post by: javeryh on February 21, 2023, 02:36:22 pm
Another issue is that when Hyperspin boots, I need to not touch the cabinet for 10-15 seconds or else I will get the error where P1 Start will bring up the “Quit” menu. So it works as long as I don’t hit anything. Then, upon starting the first game only, there is a noticeable delay between pressing the start button and the computer launching the game (3 seconds at least). After I play one game and exit back to the game list, games will launch almost instantly (1 second or less). Again, it’s weird but I’ve been living with it.
More importantly, I finally broke 2,000 points in Space Invaders!
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230221/636a02e8982bf91dc681ad1f89ca7bec.jpg)
Don’t laugh - I absolutely suck at this game.
I’ve been shopping around for a replacement PC but haven’t pulled the trigger yet. This cab is getting a lot of use though!
Post by: bobbyb13 on February 21, 2023, 06:53:27 pm
Many of my projects have them at the moment so I feel your pain.
At least it is working!
And it looks great too.
I'm a coward and haven't ventured out of the standard UI at this point myself.
Someday.
Have you checked the connector on the MB for that fan?
Could be the main boot switch is dirty/tired too.
Weird how it is turning on intermittently like that.
And you are currently better than I am at SI.
:lol
Post by: Zebidee on February 21, 2023, 09:36:09 pm
Another issue is that when Hyperspin boots, I need to not touch the cabinet for 10-15 seconds or else I will get the error where P1 Start will bring up the “Quit” menu. So it works as long as I don’t hit anything. Then, upon starting the first game only, there is a noticeable delay between pressing the start button and the computer launching the game (3 seconds at least). After I play one game and exit back to the game list, games will launch almost instantly (1 second or less). Again, it’s weird but I’ve been living with it.
Normally, I do not let anyone touch a cab while the PC boots. Strictly hands-off. Aside from anything else, it can cause the keyboard interface (IPAC) to not initialise properly.
Sometimes I notice the first game can take a few seconds to load too. Never been a big issue. Though I admit there have been a few awkward moments while starting a game to demonstrate, all goes away once the game loads.
A failing power supply might explain some of your intermittent issues, like with the fan. Those SFF HP desktops (like yours) use a weird shaped PSU, but they are available online at very reasonable prices, so maybe try swapping the power supply out for a new one. I use a couple of HP desktops like yours, and have had to replace a power supply before.
Congrats on your SI score, I never have much patience for it :D
Post by: javeryh on February 22, 2023, 10:21:53 am
Gremlins everywhere-
Many of my projects have them at the moment so I feel your pain.
At least it is working!
And it looks great too.
I'm a coward and haven't ventured out of the standard UI at this point myself.
Someday.
Have you checked the connector on the MB for that fan?
Could be the main boot switch is dirty/tired too.
Weird how it is turning on intermittently like that.
And you are currently better than I am at SI.
:lol
Haha - definitely have some Gremlins in my cabs. I try for 100% and always end up topping out around 97% functionality.
I checked the connector and even replaced the fan but the issue persists. My guess is the computer is just OLD. I think it's from 2010 and was in an office environment until I got my hands on it. I'm a little afraid to try and swap it out because I know it will be a lot harder than just moving the hard drive. I installed an SSD so in theory I could just take it out and put it in the new one but I doubt that will work.
Space Invaders has always been very hard for me. I started playing it recently to see if I could get better at it but no, it's still hard. My high score is 2,120 and I hit the spaceship 3 times (100 points each!) which is how I got it over 2,000. I've only been to the third board once. I don't think there are any tricks either. Just need to get better.
Normally, I do not let anyone touch a cab while the PC boots. Strictly hands-off. Aside from anything else, it can cause the keyboard interface (IPAC) to not initialise properly.
Sometimes I notice the first game can take a few seconds to load too. Never been a big issue. Though I admit there have been a few awkward moments while starting a game to demonstrate, all goes away once the game loads.
A failing power supply might explain some of your intermittent issues, like with the fan. Those SFF HP desktops (like yours) use a weird shaped PSU, but they are available online at very reasonable prices, so maybe try swapping the power supply out for a new one. I use a couple of HP desktops like yours, and have had to replace a power supply before.
Congrats on your SI score, I never have much patience for it :D
So it sounds like my setup might not be behaving too badly... waiting for the iPAC to initialize could be what is happening. If I leave the cab alone, it will start up just fine more often than not. Power supply could be the issue - at this point nothing would surprise me since the PC is so old. It might also be because Hyperspin is a bit of a mess but I haven't seen a solution in another front end that allows for the marquee monitor to work similarly. Launchbox can output the image to a second monitor but it's not windowed so it appears dead center of the screen, which doesn't work for me.
I'm thinking about building another cab this year but this time I'm going to work out the software first instead of just building and assuming I'll figure it all out eventually...
:cheers:
EDIT: 2,290!!
EDIT#2: 2,330!! I am convinced that stage 3 is impossible to clear haha. The aliens start so low and are basically rapid firing at you. I can get there without losing a life and then in a blink I get wiped out.
Post by: abispac on February 22, 2023, 11:55:04 am
On hyperspin being slow at first, im amazed you guys mention ony 10 to 15 seconds, for me its about 1 minute, on a 3rd gen i5 pc with 8gb of ram and an 1gb amd card. on windows 7x64. And yes after that all games load instantly. I think its a hyperspin bug. I did some research and got no real solution for that. so i always tell my friends, who i made cabs for them, to wait for the first game to load as the computer still loading stuff, and then after that you can exit and enter games as you please. It would be cool if we can research on what makes hyperspin behave like that. To bad that Bad Boy Bill aint around anymore to fix that bug.
And on your computer not finding the fan, perhaps you can set you bios to take 5 seconds after trun in on to load everything, im not sure how that feature its called, but ive seen it on most computer even nowdays. 5 second delay i think its is on the power options.
Nice cab and nice job, heres a pic of mine.
Post by: javeryh on February 22, 2023, 12:40:32 pm
:laugh2: