The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Monitor/Video Forum => Topic started by: MikeQ on November 27, 2005, 09:19:11 pm
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Hello,
I'm new to the forums but have been reading for a long time.
For those that haven't been following the bilLABS BL27CA1K saga on Retroblast.com.
http://www.retroblast.com/news.php
They did a review of the monitor and reported in being capable of 50khz horiz. This of course meaning that the monitor supports 1024x768. Well, soon after this, it was discovered that the monitor was discontinued. It was then reported that a new monitor was available to take its place. It was the BL27CA1Q. However, initial specs indicated that it only supported 800x600. After talking to bilLabs, it was determined that an option was in fact available to get this monitor with support for 1024x768. However, the monitor was a special order and only available in quantities of 1000.
I spoke to bilLabs about the quantity policy and mentioned that the MAME community would love this monitor. They seemed surprised by this due to most games being VGA resolution. I told them that like myself, many people run PC games on their cabinets and would like the support for the higher resolutions.
At this point, I'm trying to determine what interest there would be for this monitor from the MAME community. We may not be able to round up 1000 orders to make a special order but if we do have enough interest, we might be able to piggy back a larger order that bilLabs will make for this monitor for another of its clients.
If people are interested, please respond to this thread and we will see what kind of dialog we can start with bilLabs. I'm already in discussion with them on a piggy back order at the end of December so it may be necessary to act fast.
Also, I found that Alva Amusement International in Miami can order this monitor from overseas but it will take more than a month to get them. The will send it on a container ship. The price quoted for this monitor and method of delivery was $450. I'd feel more comfortable dealing with bilLabs directly but thought I would mention the Alva route too.
Thanks,
Mike
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Hi MikeQ, greetings from the author of that review.
First, I must say the monitor tested was the M2929DC-62, original Wei-Ya brand, you know. I know bilLABS is Wei-Ya's american branch, and that model they were showing on their website had the exact same specs as the M2929DC-62. So I supposed that monitor was a rebranded M2929DC-62 with cosmetic changes.
But I already stated in the review that there could be differences between both models.
Maybe bilLABS originally thought in offering the top model, but then decided to introduce the 38 KHz one to clear out some taiwanese stock :P and for a direct match against the D9200/Betson Imperial (Kortek KT-2914) but with a flat screen. They will end up offering the 50 KHz model for sure, albeit possibly at a higher price point, though.
When I was dealing with Wei-Ya HQ to get my monitor, I was told the M2929DC-62 was a truly new model and they had not started production in heavy quantities yet. Limited supply at this moment may be the reason bilLABS isn't going to offer the 50 KHz display for the time being.
bilLABS' staff told you they were surprised due to the high interest for a low to high resolution capable monitor? They don't have a clue on what they are talking about. You can tell them why in the hell that device was designed and built first. Because if there's no demand for something then something will soon get extinct or just won't exist. Flexible devices are exactly what the MAME community looks for, and the M2929DC-62 excels in flexibility and quality. I find way more logical to think how surprising it would be if people were not interested, instead.
$450 at Alva? Great price. If the 38 KHz bilLABS unit carries a $475 pricetag, expect to pay at least 500 bucks for the 50 KHz model from them.
I ended up paying a lot more. A grand total of $745,55 to be more precise. Monitor ($280) + shipping ($330) + wire transfer fee ($21,70) + customs tax ($113,85). But hell, it is worth it! ;D
Cheers
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Hi Barkuti,
Good write up.
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Hi Mike,
I have also talked to Kristin at Billabs in the last few days about a BL27CA1Q monitor.
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Hi Goobzilla,
So are you getting a BL27CA1Q or a BL27CB1P?
The 1P is the 1024x768 50khz model and is special order in quantities of 1000.
The 1Q is 800x600 and readily available.
Thanks for the info on shipping. I'm in Florida, so I'm not that far from them. I'll definitely deliever it to work though.
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Why does the spec sheet on Billabs' site say the BL27CA0Q and BL27CA1Q models support 1024 x 768 if they don't? That seems a bit misleading, though I'll freely admit that I'm no expert on this subject.
http://billabs.com/monitor_27_specs.htm
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I found this confusing too. when I emailed them that is when they told me about the 1P. You'll notice that the 1Q claims 15-38khz (which means 800x600) but then states there is an option to get 48khz (1024x768). They don't however state that the max resoution of 1024x768 is only on the 48khz model. I guess they assume that most people know that >48khz = 1024x768.
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Hi Goobzilla,
So are you getting a BL27CA1Q or a BL27CB1P?
The 1P is the 1024x768 50khz model and is special order in quantities of 1000.
The 1Q is 800x600 and readily available.
Thanks for the info on shipping. I'm in Florida, so I'm not that far from them. I'll definitely deliever it to work though.
Well, the Billabs 1Q is out. $223 shipping to a business address, $283 to my door. :o
Ron
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Wow,
That is nuts!!! How can they justify that? I got a quote from Betson for $76.00. They are as far from me as bilLabs is from you.
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Yeah, tell me about it!
The good news is the Betson sales rep in Portland e-mailed me today. the 27" multisyncs are back in stock. About an hours drive, $425 out the door.
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Did they say how they were shipping it?
BTW, Kristin emailed me today and said we would be able to get the
BL27CB1P in about 6 weeks for $549.
Also, have you read all the negative things people have to say about the Betsons when running at 15khz? It seems to have a problem here.
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I plan on getting one of these soon, good thing im local :)
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I get mine mid January. Shipping was only $94.00.
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I have a slikstik cabinet with a nasty betson monitor in it, any idea how the bezel will fit, since the screen is flat. Thanks
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Hi Barkuti,
Good write up. Sounds like your happy with the monitor. Do you run it at the 15khz modes? Do you have any complaints at all about the monitor now that you've been using it a while or is it all good?
Barkuti, what is the scoop? Is it glorious in low res modes for old-school games?
BTW, I got a quote on the 1Q for $475 + $95.80(shipping) from Kristin... I'm going to ping her on the 1P.
Cheers,
Rock
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I got to see the monitor at an Atlanta auction this past weekend. It was gorgeous. Great looking monitor, very friendly ppl at BilLabs, Im planning on getting one when i get the money.
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I was there at the show in atl what was with the scan lines that it was showing?
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I dont know, I didnt see them. I am still a bit of a newb, so I probably didnt notice.
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I am too, I think it was probably just caused because they had what 3 monitors hooked up to the same source. It was a very bright and very colorful monitor though.
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Barkuti, what is the scoop?
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Does this mean that they will sell the 1024 x 768 monitor one at a time instead of the minimum 1000 unit order? If so I intend to get one on the way next week. Yeah!
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Does anyone know if BilLabs sells a 33" version of the 1024x768 monitor?
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I dont know, I didnt see one on their site, but the folks at BilLabs are pretty responsive to email, drop em a line and see if they have one planned.
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Does this mean that they will sell the 1024 x 768 monitor one at a time instead of the minimum 1000 unit order?
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Just put my order in today. Hopefully get it some time in February.
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quote from Barkuti, for your enjoyment...
Barkuti,
a couple of people (myself included) have asked for more details on how the billlabs monitor handles 15khz old games... care to comment?
thanks,
Rock
Hi Major Rock Hardy, anything interesting over the forums for the last 3 weeks? I've been so busy I haven't had time to remember taking a look at them even.
...
Onto the question, if you want it short, it's simply awesome, IMHO.
For a little explanation, the image has huge scanlines (the monitor is big with a sharp picture), so it calls for more viewing distance than a 21 incher, for example. But that's an obvious consequence of it's 27 true inches screen size and anything else. No surprises here.
A standard pitched CRT can't produce the kind of IQ a high resolution PC monitor gives you, so nothing to be feared here.
Get the thing with confidence; I myself love it. Plasmas and LCD's? :P
Umm, almost forgot, you'll notice the usual 15.7 KHz hum clearly when switching from hi to low scan rates. But that's also natural, 15.7 KHz is an audible frequency. All standard CGA TV's fare the same way.
Now, again onto that 1981's Coleco tabletop Donkey Kong cleaning & restoration for a gift 8) . Not far from having 2 times the age of it's target lol.
Regards,
Salvador Barqueros Provencio
P.D.: Happy New Year!
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*PLONCK!* ... just dropped by to say hello ;)
A little off topic, but thanks for those links Major Rock Hardy. Nice new spinner on the block; pricey, but not many choices either. And that "crapmame" web is great for laughs, really. That guy is hard over the work of some fellas, and honestly some jobs need a bit of constructive criticism. But anyway, someone should tell him speaking is so much easier than doing the job, especially if you want to keep it cheap.
I wouldn't care less anyhow.
Seems the monitors are making you wait a bit... Hope you won't be dissapointed. 8)
I'll try to keep an eye over here more often. :police:
Cheers
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Hey Barkuti,
Did you get a bezel for your Wei-Ya somewhere or did you make one?
Later,
Mike
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Barkuti-
no problemo, mi amigo... necessito mucho dinero porque quiero una BL27CB0P de BilLabs. :)
does anyone have any soft copy (pdfs) of the dimensions owners manuals, etc.?
Cheers,
Rock
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I might have the specs in an email from BilLabs. This is for the 1p correct?
I'll look when I get home tonight.
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the part number Kristin gave me was BL27CB0P, here was what she said:
"the BL27CA1Q does not have the ability to do 1024x768. Our brochures
for the BL27CA1Q monitor need to be modified because they should say
they do 15-38kHz only. The optional 48kHZ is for the BL27CB1P and this
model number is actually going to change to BL27CB0P, because it's a
flat-screened monitor and not curved. I know this is probably more
confusing now than before, I completely apologize.
So just to clarify, the only way to run 1024x768 at 48kHz is to
purchase the BL27CB0P. There is a one-year warranty on all of our monitors."
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in other news, I noticed this:
http://www.billabs.com/about%20us.htm
so I called my local Mtn. Coin distributor here in Denver and they said they could get the BL27CB0P for around $549 (approximate guess since it won't be available til next month - big surprise), and I would just pick it up. That is the pick up price! I will have to pay the local sales tax but that is about $90 less than having it shipped.
so it might behoove you to see if there's a local distributor. Mike, aren't you just going to drive up to GA to save on shipping? Oh, depending on where you are, that might cost you more in gas than it does for shipping. Hmmm...
Cheers,
Rock
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Here is a link with some info.
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the part number Kristin gave me was BL27CB0P, here was what she said:
"the BL27CA1Q does not have the ability to do 1024x768.
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Happs sells a 27" bezel for flat screen monitors, for under $20 if I remember right. That is what I am planning to use.
Hey Barkuti,
Did you get a bezel for your Wei-Ya somewhere or did you make one?
Later,
Mike
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I saw that on their site but wasn't sure if bezels are generic or if they needed to be fit to a specific manufacturer.
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I have heard from others that they are generic, the edges are oversized so you can cut to fit any cabinet.
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I spoke yesterday with Bill Babs. They confirmed that the information about the BL237CA1Q was indeed incorrect. It will not display 1024x768. If you are interested in that resolution, then you are indeed looking for the BL27CB0P not 1P. Also, they will have more in stock approx mid February, but you can put your name on a list. I also asked about having to buy in lots of 1000. According to Bill Labs, this is not at all true. They will definitely sell 1 monitor. The price is $549 and it is a flat display. Hopefully, this is helpful.
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Anyone have this monitor and running advancemame w/ it to get all the correct resolutions? Do we know how tightly spec'ed our 15kHz signal needs to be?
For instance, the d9200 can handle 15kHz +/- some tolerance - I know I've read it some where. Oh, found it: on desmatic's easymamecab site:
21. What is the D9200's horizontal clock range? Unfortunately, the listed specifications for the D9200 on Wellsgardner's web site are a little misleading / confusing. The D9200 supports arcade boards that operate between 15.75 - 31.5kHz, but it does not support the entire range 15.75 - 31.5kHz. The D9200 is really a fixed frequency monitor that supports hclocks at 15.75kHz, 25kHz, and 31.5kHz with a 1-2kHz error margin at each frequency.
This tolerance actually helps for some old arcade resolutions so they can be perfect.
Barkuti, or anyone else - have you tried lots of old resolutions with BilLabs monitors?
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the 50,000$ question for me is it rotatable?
i sent an email to their tech. awaiting an answer..
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the 50,000$ question for me is it rotatable?
i sent an email to their tech. awaiting an answer..
As in, horizontal OR vertical for an upright? Or, as in, you can use it in a cocktail? Or something else?
I think if you have $50000 to spend on a question you probably have enough to build several mame cabinets, each w/ a monitor in a different orientation. haha ;D
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Hi guys, what's up?
Still some questions left, heh?
MikeQ, no bezel for me. I made the plans for a wooden frame, in a similar fashion to yesterday's TVs. My carpenter didn't gave much priority to the job so I'm still without it, now that I'm enjoying additional spare time I'll have to change that. Also it took a bit for me to do the design, because at first I couldn't decide against a fully turntable enclosure, but I finally rejected the idea because it was going to be freakingly huge.
And now for the main question, summarized in:
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Rich,
The BL27CB0P is a flat-screened monitor that is capable of 1024x768, 48kHz and the price is $549 + the cost of shipping. I currently do no have a specs sheet available, but we are working on getting one up on our site. As soon as I receive it, I'll send it to you. This monitor can be safely rotated to the horizontal position and its's alright to mount this monitor in either a horizontal or a vertical position.
Thanks,
Kristin
--------------------------------------------------------
BILLABS Manufacturing
Manufacturer of Amusement Products and Gaming Devices
Industrial monitors, power supplies, commercial speakers
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im ordering one in a couple weeks..
time for a new project ! MUHAHAHAH!!
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I'm waiting for that specs sheet too. I believe the one we want is one of the ones on this page:
http://www.weiya.com.tw/products_detail.asp?le=english&fid=95&pid=104&top_fid=86
model would be either M2929-82 or M2929D-72, not sure though
Rock
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M2929D-72 looked closest, its marked as "dyna" as in "dyna-flat" i assume.
I REAALY Wish they had a 21-24" model.
after my last candy cab its my personal opinion that 29" is a bit overkill for most titles. but i suppose the sacrifice of playing titles like gun roar at full windows desktop res is going to have to cushion my disappointment :P
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Talked to Kristin today. Monitor should ship Monday. I'll post some pics and impressions when I get it.
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Talked to Kristin today. Monitor should ship Monday. I'll post some pics and impressions when I get it.
I assume that this would apply to everyone who has an order placed? I am itching to play my gun games on it.
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Talked to Kristin today. Monitor should ship Monday. I'll post some pics and impressions when I get it.
I assume that this would apply to everyone who has an order placed? I am itching to play my gun games on it.
Don't know. I paid for mine a long time ago. It may depend on when you paid them. For a while I was just "on the list". Kristin recommended I pay for it so that I got one of the first that came in.
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Hello, just wanted to let you guys know that the BL27CB0P monitors are going to be here tomorrow. We had a little difficulty getting them released into our custody. But as soon as I get word that they're set, I will ship the pre-paid monitors out. If anybody else is looking for this monitor or any of our other monitors, please email us at sales@billabs.com. Make sure to include the model you're looking for, your ZIP code and whether it's a business or residence, I need to know this because the freight company charges $43.40 to ship to a residence.
Thanks,
Kristin
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Monitors are in today, finally, and I'm hoping to have all of the pre-paid ones shipped by this Friday. I'm going to find out once they've all been unloaded as to when I can start shipping. I know everyone has been waiting for them for a long time and I want to thank y'all for being patient w/us. When I get the green light, I will post that I'm shipping and then I'll email y'all individually on when and what to expect.
Kristin
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I'm going to ship the pre-paid monitors tomorrow.
Thanks!
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Could somebody update the list on the details of this monitor?
In particular the bilLABS website does not yet specify the details of the BL27CBOP. Is this an expiramental monitor?
What kind of warranty? Is 1024x768 supported natively? Or via switch and dial voodoo? ::)
What are the dimensions? What inputs are available(eg.VGA supported)?
I would feel more comfortable if it was listed as part of the product lineup with full specs.
JMHO
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Could somebody update the list on the details of this monitor?
In particular the bilLABS website does not yet specify the details of the BL27CBOP. Is this an expiramental monitor?
What kind of warranty? Is 1024x768 supported natively? Or via switch and dial voodoo? ::)
What are the dimensions? What inputs are available(eg.VGA supported)?
I would feel more comfortable if it was listed as part of the product lineup with full specs.
JMHO
The BL27CB0P is a digital OSD mode and has auto-sync frequencies. The dimensions I have are as follows: 15.94x24.61x19.49 (inches), I had to convert from mm. and it weighs 86lbs. It supports from CGA/EGA/VGA/SVGA/XGA. I've requested that someone post the manual for the BL27CB0P online for you guys.
Anything other questions?
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Yea I got one!
Does this product only ship or can one pick it up from a distributor.
I live about 2 hours from Sacramento and about 3 hours from San Francisco.
If shipping only zip 95223
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rackoon:
I spoke to Kristin today about shipping the monitor to California - I live near Sacramento. Though they mention Mountain Coin on their website as Western distributor, Kristin indicated that all orders for the new model would be sent from Billabs in Atlanta. So, we pay more to ship to the West Coast.
My quote for residential delivery was ~$170. To a business, it is ~$130. The monitor price is $549.
Yes, those are expensive freight shipping costs. At this point, I'm most interested in hearing how the monitor performs and compares against the WG and Betson.
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Could anyone confirm how this monitor is picture quality wise to display 15 Khz games? Are the scan lines very visible since this tube has a kinda low dot pitch? Lets hope for Gods sake these moniotrs don
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I received my monitor on Friday. I've only run it at 800x600 and 1024x768. First impressions are that it looks great in most games. It looks good at the desktop but has on minor issue that I find a little annoying. When displaying text or other small graphics at these resolutions, the text/graphics in the center of the screen looks sharp and well focused. However, at the edges it becomes blurry.
I haven't run any 15khz modes.
The monitor came very well packaged and looks very rugged. It is a perfectly flat display so making a bezel for it is easy.
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Your issue with unsharp edges sounds familiar like with my 3129D 15-31 Khz monitor. I have heard this is not uncommon with larger monitors. Probably it is not a NANAO killer, but I believe and hope it is among the best 29" monitor on the market. It also seems that Billabs/ Wei Ya is the only manufacturers of monitors with flat screens as well. I really prefer flatscreen over curved CRTs many times!
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I received my monitor on Friday. I've only run it at 800x600 and 1024x768. First impressions are that it looks great in most games. It looks good at the desktop but has on minor issue that I find a little annoying. When displaying text or other small graphics at these resolutions, the text/graphics in the center of the screen looks sharp and well focused. However, at the edges it becomes blurry.
I haven't run any 15khz modes.
The monitor came very well packaged and looks very rugged. It is a perfectly flat display so making a bezel for it is easy.
wow, this is exciting! I encourage you to try more modes (using advancemame would be uber-cool) and report back!
As far as the edge blurriness, the way I see it, if we want the 'authentic' fat scan lines of 15kHz arcade monitors - that means a 'fatter' dot pitch, right? The dot pitch is something fixed by the tube that's in the monitor, and not a function of the chosen resolution I believe. So if these things are true, I am deducing that at higher and higher resolutions, we're using a dot pitch which is less and less ideal for those resolutions - so I guess I'm trying to say I'm not surprised. Maybe some monitor gurus can fill me in. Good info though. Is it really annoying? Have you played PC games at full SVGA/XVGA resolution and they suck because of this - or is it just something minor that you noticed while making an excel spreadsheet, monitor test suite, etc.? For instance, is the clock in the corner of the windows desktop UNREADABLE or just a bit fuzzy?
Your issue with unsharp edges sounds familiar like with my 3129D 15-31 Khz monitor. I have heard this is not uncommon with larger monitors. Probably it is not a NANAO killer, but I believe and hope it is among the best 29" monitor on the market. It also seems that Billabs/ Wei Ya is the only manufacturers of monitors with flat screens as well. I really prefer flatscreen over curved CRTs many times!
I have one question about your preference for flat screen... wouldn't you expect that the retro, curved tube would be more authentic for arcade games, or do you not notice this?
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I received my monitor on Friday. I've only run it at 800x600 and 1024x768. First impressions are that it looks great in most games. It looks good at the desktop but has on minor issue that I find a little annoying. When displaying text or other small graphics at these resolutions, the text/graphics in the center of the screen looks sharp and well focused. However, at the edges it becomes blurry.
I haven't run any 15khz modes.
The monitor came very well packaged and looks very rugged. It is a perfectly flat display so making a bezel for it is easy.
wow, this is exciting! I encourage you to try more modes (using advancemame would be uber-cool) and report back!
As far as the edge blurriness, the way I see it, if we want the 'authentic' fat scan lines of 15kHz arcade monitors - that means a 'fatter' dot pitch, right? The dot pitch is something fixed by the tube that's in the monitor, and not a function of the chosen resolution I believe. So if these things are true, I am deducing that at higher and higher resolutions, we're using a dot pitch which is less and less ideal for those resolutions - so I guess I'm trying to say I'm not surprised. Maybe some monitor gurus can fill me in. Good info though. Is it really annoying? Have you played PC games at full SVGA/XVGA resolution and they suck because of this - or is it just something minor that you noticed while making an excel spreadsheet, monitor test suite, etc.? For instance, is the clock in the corner of the windows desktop UNREADABLE or just a bit fuzzy?
Your issue with unsharp edges sounds familiar like with my 3129D 15-31 Khz monitor. I have heard this is not uncommon with larger monitors. Probably it is not a NANAO killer, but I believe and hope it is among the best 29" monitor on the market. It also seems that Billabs/ Wei Ya is the only manufacturers of monitors with flat screens as well. I really prefer flatscreen over curved CRTs many times!
I have one question about your preference for flat screen... wouldn't you expect that the retro, curved tube would be more authentic for arcade games, or do you not notice this?
Well, I think overall that the flat Samsung tube give a crisp nice image. I think it is just a matter to get used to the flat to have something to compare to. Personally I think the flat tube give a more natural picture after all.
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I thought it was an LG or Phillips tube?
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Sorry to be confusing. I am refering to my Wei Ya 29" monitor with a dynaflat Samsung tube with 0.7 dot-pitch when I gave my opinions regarding the feeling of a flat tube vs curved tube. The Billabs 1024*768 monitor has tube with brand LG-Philips, which has a 0.6 dot-pitch
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I received my monitor on Friday. I've only run it at 800x600 and 1024x768. First impressions are that it looks great in most games. It looks good at the desktop but has on minor issue that I find a little annoying. When displaying text or other small graphics at these resolutions, the text/graphics in the center of the screen looks sharp and well focused. However, at the edges it becomes blurry.
I haven't run any 15khz modes.
The monitor came very well packaged and looks very rugged. It is a perfectly flat display so making a bezel for it is easy.
wow, this is exciting! I encourage you to try more modes (using advancemame would be uber-cool) and report back!
As far as the edge blurriness, the way I see it, if we want the 'authentic' fat scan lines of 15kHz arcade monitors - that means a 'fatter' dot pitch, right? The dot pitch is something fixed by the tube that's in the monitor, and not a function of the chosen resolution I believe. So if these things are true, I am deducing that at higher and higher resolutions, we're using a dot pitch which is less and less ideal for those resolutions - so I guess I'm trying to say I'm not surprised. Maybe some monitor gurus can fill me in. Good info though. Is it really annoying? Have you played PC games at full SVGA/XVGA resolution and they suck because of this - or is it just something minor that you noticed while making an excel spreadsheet, monitor test suite, etc.? For instance, is the clock in the corner of the windows desktop UNREADABLE or just a bit fuzzy?
Your issue with unsharp edges sounds familiar like with my 3129D 15-31 Khz monitor. I have heard this is not uncommon with larger monitors. Probably it is not a NANAO killer, but I believe and hope it is among the best 29" monitor on the market. It also seems that Billabs/ Wei Ya is the only manufacturers of monitors with flat screens as well. I really prefer flatscreen over curved CRTs many times!
I have one question about your preference for flat screen... wouldn't you expect that the retro, curved tube would be more authentic for arcade games, or do you not notice this?
The blur is only noticable with really small fonts. If you are looking at graphics it looks awesome. I played Star Wars Starfighter on it last night and it is really awesome. It looks like a PC monitor quality picture but HUGE!!! The only complaint is windows desktop stuff. Even then, if you have IE or the app you are using in a window and keep it near the middle of the screen it looks awesome.
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I received my monitor on Friday. I've only run it at 800x600 and 1024x768. First impressions are that it looks great in most games. It looks good at the desktop but has on minor issue that I find a little annoying. When displaying text or other small graphics at these resolutions, the text/graphics in the center of the screen looks sharp and well focused. However, at the edges it becomes blurry.
I haven't run any 15khz modes.
The monitor came very well packaged and looks very rugged. It is a perfectly flat display so making a bezel for it is easy.
wow, this is exciting! I encourage you to try more modes (using advancemame would be uber-cool) and report back!
As far as the edge blurriness, the way I see it, if we want the 'authentic' fat scan lines of 15kHz arcade monitors - that means a 'fatter' dot pitch, right? The dot pitch is something fixed by the tube that's in the monitor, and not a function of the chosen resolution I believe. So if these things are true, I am deducing that at higher and higher resolutions, we're using a dot pitch which is less and less ideal for those resolutions - so I guess I'm trying to say I'm not surprised. Maybe some monitor gurus can fill me in. Good info though. Is it really annoying? Have you played PC games at full SVGA/XVGA resolution and they suck because of this - or is it just something minor that you noticed while making an excel spreadsheet, monitor test suite, etc.? For instance, is the clock in the corner of the windows desktop UNREADABLE or just a bit fuzzy?
Your issue with unsharp edges sounds familiar like with my 3129D 15-31 Khz monitor. I have heard this is not uncommon with larger monitors. Probably it is not a NANAO killer, but I believe and hope it is among the best 29" monitor on the market. It also seems that Billabs/ Wei Ya is the only manufacturers of monitors with flat screens as well. I really prefer flatscreen over curved CRTs many times!
I have one question about your preference for flat screen... wouldn't you expect that the retro, curved tube would be more authentic for arcade games, or do you not notice this?
Well, I think overall that the flat Samsung tube give a crisp nice image. I think it is just a matter to get used to the flat to have something to compare to. Personally I think the flat tube give a more natural picture after all.
The flat tube is nice. It makes the arcade cabinet look more sleek and futuristic. I didn't go with an Arcade monitor to get scanlines. I went with it to get the 29" foot print. If I wanted scanlines, I would have used my 20 year old tv. :)
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Here are some images: (These are big images. Compressing or resizing distorted the actual quality).
The moire patterns aren't visible on the monitor. Save the pictures and view them at full res.
(http://www.unappliedbraincells.com/tempimages/DSC04978.JPG)
(http://www.unappliedbraincells.com/tempimages/DSC04980.JPG)
(http://www.unappliedbraincells.com/tempimages/DSC04981.JPG)
(http://www.unappliedbraincells.com/tempimages/DSC04982.JPG)
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Hi guys , got one question-
l have the Wei-ya C2938 series 15k~38k with a 29" dynaflat Samsung tube. Has anyone heard of this chassis, cos l cant find it on there web site.
l bought it in Melbourne ,Australia , off a company called Zax.
It sounds similar to the Billabs one you guys are taking about.
here is a pic of it
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rockmes: It appears you have got a chassis designed for a 38" tube. I don't know what this really means except it could supply your tube with higher volate than it is supposed to be. As long as you are satisfied with the picture quality I don't see any issue. Or are you about to install this chassis to your tube? If you have not I would advice you to replace your current chassis with the C2929 model.
If any other of you guys could try some 15 khz game with your 1024x768 monitor it would be great. I am curious about the picture quality with this resolution. If you could do a dot cross hatch test it would be great as well so we could see how well the linearity is.
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wow thanks MikeQ for the pics of the hi-res billabs monitor!
If any other of you guys could try some 15 khz game with your 1024x768 monitor it would be great. I am curious about the picture quality with this resolution. If you could do a dot cross hatch test it would be great as well so we could see how well the linearity is.
I second this notion - 15kHz pics would be great! Perhaps one of each: CGA,EGA,VGA...
Thanks again,
Rock
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Yea I got one!
Does this product only ship or can one pick it up from a distributor.
I live about 2 hours from Sacramento and about 3 hours from San Francisco.
If shipping only zip 95223
Sorry about that, I haven't had the chance to check out the forum in a while. We don't have any distributors in Cali, but you're welcome to order from us. It is possible to pick up from us in Norcross, GA about 20 miles NE of ATL, that's good news for any locals. I checked out shipping to 95223 w/the freight company we use. Business-to-business delivery is $128.65, business-to-residence delivery is $172.05. Watkins Motor Lines charges an additional $43.40 to deliver to a residence.
If you order from us, I would definitely use the business-to-business delivery to save some bucks. If anybody has any other questions, please let me know. I try to check the forum everyday, but feel free to email me at sales@billabs.com.
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I have my Billabs monitor (the P model) up and installed in my cabinet using an ArcadeVGA card. I must say that I am most impressed. It handles a wide range of frequencies well. At the high res end (1024x768) fine text can be a tad fuzzy but it is very usable. The lower resolutions look super with rich vibrant colors and very sharp images.
There are some minor faults: First, Mine has a minor geometry problem as there is a bit of drooping in the upper right corner of the screen. Also there is some misconvergence in that same area though it isnt enough to be an issue. Another thing that Barkuti mentioned is that this thing makes rather loud clicking sounds when changing resolutions. Be aware of this as I initially thought my unit was buring out or something the first few times it did this.
Finally, I must say that setting low res modes is great for raster games but having 1027x768 for vector games is incredible. With only a few exceptions, vector games run on this monitor appear almost identical to how they look on a real vector monitor. This is a real plus of having such a wide frequency range.
I have the Happs control's flat screen bezel. Be careful, that thing is very fragile and rips easily. Also, you will pay more for shipping than for the item itself. It does fit well though
All in all, I am impressed. I think it is worth the extra money to have such beautiful vector graphics. If you dont care about the vectors, raster games dont benefit from the high resolution so some of you may elect to save $100 or more. (Billabs shipping is really high $150 to Kansas).
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I am a newbie, and I have a question about this monitor.
The manual shows two inputs on the back. one is a 15 pin connection thats labled 31-50khz, the other one is labled ttl 15khz/24khz. Do you need to hook into this ttl connection to get the 15khz or can you use the normal 15 pin monitor connection to get all the resolutions of the monitor. tia.
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tbtalbot: Please do a dot cross hatch s
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Just an update and question. I've had my monitor powered up since I got it and either I'm going crazy or having it on has improved the blurriness at the edges. Is this possible? I thought maybe I'm just getting used to it but text that was hard to read is now readable.
Later,
Mike
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MikeQ:
I have heard that it is recommended to start and warm up your monitor about 20 minuts before you get optimal picture quality
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The linearity is pretty darned good and a cross hatch pattern comes out perfect unless it is inverted and the screen in mostly white (causes minor bowing and size changes.) The lack of linearity on mine is only at the very top right of the screen and only noticeable at 1024x768. Also, im not sure if I have all my monitor timings right as far as Hz are concerned as this thing can go up to 90Hz, though a few of the low res modes flicker while others don't. (Still playing with optimal resolutions)
Someone else wondered about the TTL input. TTL inputs are higher voltage signals that would come from a JAMMA PCB. In the past, I know VGA cards had to have an amplifier to drive some of the arcade monitors. This one doesnt require any such thing and all modes, including 15kHz ones are available through a standard VGA connector as long as you have AdvanceMAME or an ArcadeVGA card like I do.
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I have the Happs control's flat screen bezel. Be careful, that thing is very fragile and rips easily. Also, you will pay more for shipping than for the item itself. It does fit well though
Is the Happs flat screen bezel made from a different material than their other bezels?
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Kristin, I am interested in ordering this monitor in about two to three months. Just so I have the info, what is the correct model# for the 1024x768, I have lost track? Is there any problem with mounting it in a cocktail table? Also can you give me a price on shipping to PA 17070. I understand the price might change a little but I would just like to get a idea. I assume there are no local pickup sites in my area correct?
Thanks
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squirrellydw, shipping to PA 17070 is $112.08 for a business delivery or $155.48 for a residential delivery. The model is BL27CB0P and I'll have to check on the mounting in a cocktail table. You can order the monitor from us, but it is possible to check and see what Mountain Coin has in stock. There are no other U.S. distributors.
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Thanks, please let me know on the cocktail mounting.
Thanks again
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The dimensions I have are as follows: 15.94x24.61x19.49 (inches), I had to convert from mm. and it weighs 86lbs. It supports from CGA/EGA/VGA/SVGA/XGA. I've requested that someone post the manual for the BL27CB0P online for you guys.
Anything other questions?
Just want to make sure these dimmensions are HxWxD
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That's LxWxH and it's a universal mount.
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Great, can't wait to get this in my cocktail table. Do yo have any in stock, if not do you know when?
Thanks again
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I'm curious since I didn't see this listed for specs - is the monitor using a flat shadow mask or aperature grill? If the latter, do any of the owners notice the aperature grill lines?
It does look like a sweet monitor, but I'd love to see retroblast or some community members compare it to the flatscreen kortek monitor and others, and offer their opinions. Personally, I'd think it would be less "authentic" feeling with flatscreen regardless of the clarity, but how much more perfect can you get for cocktail cabs (flat screen for a flat surface). I'm picturing it now... mmnnnn...
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I'm curious since I didn't see this listed for specs - is the monitor using a flat shadow mask or aperature grill? If the latter, do any of the owners notice the aperature grill lines?
It does look like a sweet monitor, but I'd love to see retroblast or some community members compare it to the flatscreen kortek monitor and others, and offer their opinions. Personally, I'd think it would be less "authentic" feeling with flatscreen regardless of the clarity, but how much more perfect can you get for cocktail cabs (flat screen for a flat surface). I'm picturing it now... mmnnnn...
I was wondering that myself. In a cocktail cab, a 27" monitor is definitely pushing the limits of what is too big (I know from experience). I think a flat screen may help the ergonomics of being able to easily see the far end of the monitor in a cocktail table from a seated position. I like having a 27" monitor in my cocktail but I also like the classic look of a curvy monitor. I think functionality may trump aesthetics in this case.
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anyone taken pics at other resolutions yet?
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ummm, yeah, pics please
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I didn't see this any place. Should you use the ArcadeVGA with this?
Thanks
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Hello,
I'm looking for a replacement monitor for my arcade cabinet and the Billabs 1024X768 seems like a great option. I currently have a slikstik arcade cabinet, with a Wells-Gardner D9200 that went bad. My question is would this monitor be the right size for the cabinet? Also, with the D9200 I used an ArcadeVGA video card, would that work well with the Billabs?
Any information is much appreciated.
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It will fit just fine, however you will need to get a new bezel, they sell them over at happs controls for around $18. It is the 27" flat screen bezel.
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Post 100 ;D
Sorry just had to do it!
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Hello,
I'm looking for a replacement monitor for my arcade cabinet and the Billabs 1024X768 seems like a great option. I currently have a slikstik arcade cabinet, with a Wells-Gardner D9200 that went bad. My question is would this monitor be the right size for the cabinet? Also, with the D9200 I used an ArcadeVGA video card, would that work well with the Billabs?
Any information is much appreciated.
Hey - I'm in the same boat (slikstik cab, arcadeVGA, and a busted WG D9200). I'm wondering what you did with your WG and did you get any help from WG? I've gone through a Cap-Kit upgrade, a DOA refurbuished chassis, a $112 'repair' job that made no difference. I have almost $900 into this single WG 9200 between original cost, + shippings back and forth, bad repairs, etc... I'm ready to throw it in the dumpster but I'm wondering if you, or anyone reading this has any advice on what to do besides get away from WG. They were the only serious player 2 years ago when I got it but sadly I only put 100 hours on it before it effectively died and I've been fighting with WG ever since to repair it (post warranty).
Looks to me that this Billabs device is the current way to go but I can't seriously consider another $600+ after all I've dropped into the WG. Yet right now the WG is still dead. Any suggestions...?
Anyone have any luck getting WG to take back a defective monitor or know any suckers who would buy mine? ;)
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Does anyone have any experience dealing with billabs recently? I just called hoping to talk to Kristin and apparently she's been moved to another department. The guy on the phone didn't have time to actually talk to me because he was eating lunch (!)
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Actually When I ordered mine Kristen sent me a message that she was leaving the company. I imagine anyone there would be able to fill your order.
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15khz screenshots?