The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Project Announcements => Topic started by: psychotech on February 19, 2008, 11:59:39 pm
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Hello..
So many awesome rotating monitor projects going on at the moment. Great software controlled stuff, etc. U guys rule!
So, I just had to try and build one for myself too ;) It's just that I can't code worth **** (PHP/MySQL/JavaScript/etc. won't help me here..). So, gimme a semiautomatic and away I blow!
One thing though - might be I've missed too many threads - is that quite a few of those older great implementations haven't been too closely documented? Yes, I know, this is not that good a document either but if anyones interested, just ask for more info and I'll add the info to this thread.
(Semiautomatic? With a simple ON-ON switch you make the screen either horizontal or vertical. Simple logic. Even I can do this..)
So..
Here's my take at a (semiautomatic) rotating monitor.
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Thanks to weisshaupt & Cornchip for documenting their builds ..Awesome ideas & great sources of inspiration !
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Alright, it's some kind of a hybrid: semiautomatic LCD rotation with friction drive. (Still waiting for a suitable bicycle chain/wheel combination to come my way:) )
Some leftover MDF, wire and 2 microswitches and it's almost done? Add a DPDT switch (ON-ON) and it is.
! The bearing for this version is taken from a 165mm diameter wheel (2.95 €), 46mm deep, and is inserted/mounted in a hole drilled through three layers of 16mm MDF !
(Almost) everything in these pictures is actually upside down.. Keep that in mind ;)
12 pictures, you decide..
And it goes like this:
01. 19" HP LCD facing down with a 16mm MDF plate on top.. Four wheels to add some friction and small "L"-brackets to trigger the microswitches..
(http://www.telemail.fi/psychotech/Project_2008_01/001.jpg)
02. Closer.. Zebra wheels to help me ascertain theres absolutely no give/play in the bearing/mounting .. The actual mounting plate goes between the two spacers...
(http://www.telemail.fi/psychotech/Project_2008_01/002.jpg)
03. Another picture of the same stuff. And yes, it would work even without the wheels. There's no "play".. It's just that LCD's don't weight enough..
(http://www.telemail.fi/psychotech/Project_2008_01/003.jpg)
04. The LCD plate's axle goes here. So, it's the bearing with the microswitches in place and all wired for action. (Hey, this picture is from up ..so, actually just right......)
(http://www.telemail.fi/psychotech/Project_2008_01/004.jpg)
05. The wires from the switches seen in the above picture go to a "terminal strip" (whatever, it's a "sokeripalaliitin") .
(http://www.telemail.fi/psychotech/Project_2008_01/005.jpg)
06. The main mount seen from below. Motor up. Metal reinforced bearings center...
(http://www.telemail.fi/psychotech/Project_2008_01/006.jpg)
07. A closeup of the motor sandwiched between two pieces of 18mm pine (the motor is just about 18mms.. useable info..). The almost intact L-bracket secures the motor in place..
(http://www.telemail.fi/psychotech/Project_2008_01/007.jpg)
08. Well, it is upside down in the picture. And the "motorized" side stays in place.
(http://www.telemail.fi/psychotech/Project_2008_01/008.jpg)
09. Another angle of the same solution. And working like a charm.
(http://www.telemail.fi/psychotech/Project_2008_01/009.jpg)
10. Well, tried to take a picture of the solution. Hope it at least gives you ideas :)
(http://www.telemail.fi/psychotech/Project_2008_01/010.jpg)
11. Overall.. With the main Vertical/Horizontal switch in the picture.
(http://www.telemail.fi/psychotech/Project_2008_01/011.jpg)
12. Not "too much" slack in this implementation...
(http://www.telemail.fi/psychotech/Project_2008_01/012.jpg)
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Yeah, I know, now I only need a cab to use this in...
..............?
Questions, ideas, etc. ?
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Hey Psychotech,
Nice Mount.. much nicer than mine. Glad to see my hours of cussing that the thing and almost giving up yeilding some positive benefit for others..
If you want to do automatic, the little program I wrote for use with a Parallel port SHOULD work just fine with this..
you just need to isolate the Power from the leads coming from the PC using that cute little secret motor driver..
iThe program is posted in my Ghost in the Machine project thread if you want to try it out..
Good luck and keep us posted on the progress!
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very nice engineering (",) i believe my machine fits your deinition of 'semi automatic'
heres my highly technical schematics:
(http://dannygalaga.com/images/rotate1.JPG)
(http://dannygalaga.com/images/rotate2.JPG)
(http://dannygalaga.com/images/rotate3.JPG)
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Awesome stuff. This looks pretty simple. Any chance you can post links to purchase the parts (switch, motor, drive wheel, main bearing, etc) for others to copy? I'm assuming you picked a motor which doesn't turn at hyper speed and can handle the heavy load, so you didn't have to deal with slowing down the torque?
Thanks for sharing! Still the missing piece to my project as well!
-csa
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Awesome stuff. This looks pretty simple. Any chance you can post links to purchase the parts (switch, motor, drive wheel, main bearing, etc) for others to copy? I'm assuming you picked a motor which doesn't turn at hyper speed and can handle the heavy load, so you didn't have to deal with slowing down the torque?
Thanks for sharing! Still the missing piece to my project as well!
-csa
Could you post wiring schematics too?
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A source for a simple motor is something I too would be interested in.
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!!
Thanks for the comments :)
weisshaupt, your thread & wiki documentation inspired me to try this. GREAT STUFF! ..also the fact that I really couldn't tell from the wiki picture how you actually did the motor mounting .. ;) Pretty happy with the mount ..and it can be used "upside down" too, in case I actually find the bicycle chain etc. or decide to do some kind of pulley later on. Not necessary though, this works great.
I'm pretty sure weisshaupt finds the motor & wheel quite familiar ..I ordered them from the Solarbotics.com webshop after seeing the Ghost in the Machine project thread! And about the motor driver & software: well see ..now that I have a "self-contained" working rotating monitor solution I think I should start "designing" an actual cab to put it in :)
danny_galaga, I totally forgot your solution, even though I remember visiting your site when I was building the Tomatocade. Anyway, that's a Great semi-automatic solution :)
And here's my highly technical schematic .. all done around an ON-ON switch..
(http://www.telemail.fi/psychotech/Project_2008_01/013.gif)
csa3d, Thanks. Not only does it look simple, it IS ;) Maybe the hardest part was to fine tune the mounting so that there's no "slack".. (and that wasn't really too difficult, so...)
Anyway, for the parts:
Check out weisshaupts LCD mechanism at http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Rotating_Monitor and www.solarbotics.com for the motor and the drive wheel... (I'm using their Gear Motor 3 (GM3) which works really great)
"..can handle the heavy load.." There's no heavy load, just the opposite with this kind of mount. The main bearing works almost too great .. the small wheels at least add some friction :)
The main bearing is from a 165mm diameter wheel I found at a local home improvement store. Just sawed and filed off everything but the main bearing housing.... The wheel's axle was 10mm so I just bought some 10mm threaded rod and made a replacement axle out of that..
The switch I had bought earlier from somewhere local, but those should be quite easy to locate both on- and off-line..?
(http://www.telemail.fi/psychotech/Project_2008_01/014.jpg)
Not too many parts to add, just MDF, screws, spacers, etc..
DoctorWHO, see above...
Lutus, solarbotics.com GM2 or/and GM3 should both work nicely.
So, ......
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This is awesome stuff! I am gaining confidence that when it comes time for me to do this in the cab I'm currently building I'll be able to since so many other will have gone before me. FYI, I'm planning on using a lazy susan to rotate mine - the ball bearings will provide an almost frictionless rotation and most lazy susans can handle a lot of weight. I just have to make sure to line up the switches properly as well as figure out how to power the motor and then get it to talk to MaLa. :cheers:
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javeryh: Almost frictionless rotation :o I was aiming for that ..and that's just what I got... So, I had to add the small wheels for at least some friction :dizzy: The LCD just kept on spinning and spinning and ...
Check out weisshaupts software & the Secret motor driver ..
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also the fact that I really couldn't tell from the wiki picture how you actually did the motor mounting .. ;)
I will have to try and get a better schematic put up now that I have gotten good with sketch-up. In the end, your mount is a prettier version of mine, but using almost exactly the same parts. Though I think Javeryh's suggestion to use a lazy susan makes it even easier, and when (if) I build my next cab I will definitely go that route. (You can download a 3d sketchup drawing of that mechanism (well the whole cab actually) in my Ghost in the machine Mark II thread)
The frictionless rotation is tricky. That little motor can't handle a lot of friction, and its brake mode is effective but not immediate. That is why a computer controlled pulse to the motor works better to control the momentum of the monitor.. Have you tried mounting it at an angle yet? Or is your cab going to be a cocktail? The wheels are a good idea. They probably add just enough friction without adding too much..
Pretty happy with the mount ..and it can be used "upside down" too, in case I actually find the bicycle chain etc. or decide to do some kind of pulley later on.
Actually, that giant wheel you mounted it to is acting just like a pulley...
The only thing I am contemplating in my redesing is to put a bicycle chain around the outside and use the GM motor with a Bicycle sproket attached - if I can figure out a good way to attach it....
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Nice, gonna order some parts today to get the ball rolling over my way. Questions:
1. Did you upgrade to the "Regular Motor 2" from solobarics as suggested by the wiki link you provided or did you stick with the default one that comes with the GM3?
2. Are you running this off of 5v from the cpu power supply? Did you need any other parts to regulate voltages?
3. Did you upgrade the rubber wheel like suggested in the wiki?
4. Are you planning to have a vertical mounted screen in the end?
Links to products mentioned above, for others (can you confirm parts?):
Gear Motor 3 (http://www.solarbotics.com/products/gm3/)
Friction Wheel (http://www.solarbotics.com/products/gmpw/)
Regular Motor 2 upgrade for GM3 (http://www.solarbotics.com/products/rm2/)
Mucho Gracias!
-csa
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Nice, gonna order some parts today to get the ball rolling over my way. Questions:
1. Did you upgrade to the "Regular Motor 2" from solobarics as suggested by the wiki link you provided or did you stick with the default one that comes with the GM3?
2. Are you running this off of 5v from the cpu power supply? Did you need any other parts to regulate voltages?
3. Did you upgrade the rubber wheel like suggested in the wiki?
4. Are you planning to have a vertical mounted screen in the end?
Links to products mentioned above, for others (can you confirm parts?):
Gear Motor 3 (http://www.solarbotics.com/products/gm3/)
Friction Wheel (http://www.solarbotics.com/products/gmpw/)
Regular Motor 2 upgrade for GM3 (http://www.solarbotics.com/products/rm2/)
Mucho Gracias!
-csa
When I was working on this, I did get it working with the standard GM3 motor. It just seemded to be working too hard for me, so I upgraded. I also had it working with the standard tire, but then upgrade to the extra grip tire. Its better, but I don't know if its required. (my original mechanism uses a pizza pie plate spraypainted with plasti-grip so the friction may be harder to achieve than when using wood)
My setup runns off of 5 v power from the PC, but its buffered via the Secret Modem Driver- which, among other things, provides diodes to prevent EMF from the motor from being sent back to the power supply and/or logic leads. If you wanted to isolate it, you could just get a 5 V wall wart from Radio Shack and use that to provide the power.
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Back again.
weisshaupt, yes the parts are almost the same, for obvious reasons ;) Thank you so very much for all the info :cheers: I don't know about the lazy susan as the wheel bearing works great as it is ..maybe with another build. And I haven't even started with this really, oh well ::)
About the friction and angled use: I might yet have to fine tune the friction (maybe lose the small wheels, reduce - almost eliminate - friction) we'll see, someday.
I left the main axle (unnecessarily) long just to be able to mod the system if needed with a bicycle chain solution.. So far haven't found suitable sprockets and so have yet to figure out the actual attachment too. Was actually thinking about using two sprockets: a small one on the motor and the biggest I can find attached to the main axle under the monitor mount.. So, if and when you figure out a durable sprocket-wheel to GM2/GM3 mounting solution, please do remember to document it !!
csa3d,
1. I'm using the stock GM3 motor ..but bought one RM2 "just in case". No need for it at the moment
2. Since I haven't even started on the main cab I'm at the moment running it from a regulated variable V wall wart. Can't get 5V out of it, but have tested with 3V, 4.5V and 6V - 4.5V seems just about (almost) right.. A bit of laboring going "up" with all cables hanging from the monitor.. I'm sure 5V will be just what the doctor ordered. The final power source ..?
3. I'm using the basic GM Series Plastic Wheel with no upgrades. The wheel works fine on unpainted MDF surface. I had to add a few drops of super glue to it as it seemed to me that the silicon tires might not stay in place on the rim..
4. Monitor will be angled ..See the attached videos: +/- 15 degrees to that... ave to design a cabinet first.. ;)
So.
First real world test with all the cables hanging from the monitor.
The monitor mount is sideways (shouldn't really affect anything?).
All test were done at 4.5V.
You can see and hear the impact of those cables' weight at 4.5V, with 6V that's not a concern ..with some cable management and 5V I'm sure it'll be just right...
The switch used in these tests is actually an ON-OFF-ON version due to my laziness. I will be using an ON-ON switch, which is way cooler :) The OFF part is really just another unnecessary click between ..there's no use for it.
Three low quality videos:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzzrHOgkJ_4[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiWr__xzu4k[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJWhs2R5ruQ[/youtube]
Comments, questions, criticism?
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Looks very good!
:applaud: :applaud:
Where did you get those small casters? I cant seem to find any that small.
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Unbelievable. I'm starting to think I'll be able to pull this off this summer - I LOVE the videos and all of the pictures. Keep 'em coming!!! :cheers:
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:o found my next project! Absolutely lost for words! :notworthy:
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I'm upset by the lack of T-molding in this project. Other than that - nice tutorial.
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..!
Disclaimer:
I reserve the right to call this solution a "just another prototype" in case it fails before the actual cab is done ... ;)
DaOld Man, thanks! Your rotating monitor thread has been interesting and has given me ideas.. Thanks for them too! Those small wheels I found at yet another local discount-store / home improvement center. 1" wheel diameter ..actually seems they're made, or at least distributed, by habo.com here..
javeryh, thanks. I was actually aiming for an even simpler solution mounting wise but that's what I ended up with, heh. Works for me. Do document your build and the rotation solution. "Keep 'em coming!!!" - Not too much more to post on this simple build. I'll take pictures if you want to know more of a specific detail or ...
waveryder, thanks! (I'm starting to think I might be repeating myself..?) Just hoping someone finds this thread useful/inspirational/whatever.. Another take etc. Keep on building!
leapinlew, so sorry, you're absolutely right...
http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=75&zenid=6392850bda65cf6ffb43912191be9229
Now that that's virtually taken care of ..thanks :)
psychotech
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I'm speechless. :applaud:
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Looks very good!
:applaud: :applaud:
Where did you get those small casters? I cant seem to find any that small.
I had a tough time locating those also, and also a good online resource for the 6 pole on-on switch (are those also called DPDT or SPDT?). I'm a big fan of making a shopping list for others to be lazy and copy ;)
As for those videos, I was really against the whole concept of a friction motor a few months back, but after seeing the videos and how you used ordinary cherry switches with 45 brackets as limiters, I think you're onto something good. I would assume the upgraded motor might not struggle as much personally. Might help in the long run, not sure how timeless those mini motors will be.
Totally great updates, do keep us informed!
-csa
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DoctorWHO, Thanks. Now, start building :)
csa3d, actually it's my mistake on the first post: meant six pin ON-ON switch, most of which usually are DPDT (as in Double Pole Double Throw ..or is it..?) Anyway ..you know the kind. I've heard these switches sometimes called "phase changing switches" also - speaker builders - and yes, that's just what happens here along with ... ;)
Yeah, the stock motor struggles a bit going "up" with 4.5V and the angle I tested it at but then again, I'm not sure about the final angle and with this mounting solution I have the option to either feed it 5V from the PSU or 4.5V or 6V from the wall wart, reduce the number of, or altogether remove, the small wheels or some combination of them.. I tested the rotation with 6V also: it's quite fast, but no struggle "climbing" and no ill effects at either "closing point". The added friction from the wheels and the cherry switches & metal L-brackets really help. No "bouncing" either at 6V.
"I was really against the whole concept of a friction motor.." Me too :) Just had to try.. It works, though. Happy with it now, but as I wrote earlier, I might yet go with a bicycle chain and sprocket-wheels kinda solution. In no hurry, time and space for improvement yet. I have the upgrade motor also, you know "just in case" (Just had to include it in the order at the current €/$ rate) ..just haven't gotten around to testing it yet ..probably won't try it before I come up with a cab design I'd like to build ......... I'm not holding my breath ;)
Anyway, yet another take.. Had to build something ..hopefully someone gets inspiration/ideas/whatever :)
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DoctorWHO, Thanks. Now, start building :)
You can bet on that. I was looking (or should I say lurking? ;D) for an easy and feasible way to rotate a monitor and yours seems the way to go for me. Since space is my major problem, I'm deciding between a wood-looking cocktail or slim upright (something like Knievel's Woody but slimmer), but I wanted to play vertical games the way they were meant to be played.
When you posted the parts you used, I did a little research and found an online italian reseller (yes, I'm in Italy) for Solarbotics:
http://www.robot-italy.com/product_info.php/cPath/8_9/products_id/76 GM3 Motor
http://www.robot-italy.com/product_info.php/cPath/7_39/products_id/66 Wheel
and
http://www.robot-italy.com/product_info.php/cPath/7_39/products_id/110 these could be good replacements for the casters
Also spotted a monitor that could suit my needs. http://www.pixmania.co.uk/uk/uk/578574/art/samsung/syncmaster-961bf-19-tft-s.html
So I have no excuse now. Just have to figure out the cab style ;D
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Just in case you guys are interested:
Since this is a manual switch type mechanism, I have written a small program that will check to see which direction the monitor is turned when you turn on your arcade.
It will then orientate mala (or glaunch) to match the monitor position.
Corn Chip is testing it for me (how's that coming along anyway, CC?)
It will require the addition of two more microswitches, two 100 ohm resistors, and a DB25 (printer) plug.
Simply put, the two additional switches will tell the program, through the printer port, which way the monitor is turned. The program will then turn mala to suit it and then start mala. (The mala screen will always be correct on startup).
Let me know if anyones interested.
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DoctorWHO, yeah ;)
So I have no excuse now. Just have to figure out the cab style
My words exactly!
As it seems that Robot Italy is out of stock.. Prior to placing your order, check out how much it'd be ordered from the main solarbotics site (€ is still quite good ..and no taxes or customs on small orders..?) I couldn't find the parts here in Finland myself so the easy answer was Canada ;) True to myself, I chose the cheapest shipping method which, according to the website, takes about 2-3 weeks and is not traceable etc. The package was delivered three work days later on my doorstep........ Just about an hour ago (I mean today!!) I got a confirmation email that my order has been shipped and should be here soon. I received the package a week ago...?
If you'd decide on a cocktail cab, I'm sure this solution - see danny_galaga's rotating cocktail also - will work with no additional tweaking or anything. No need to make the mount "tight" either, just add small wheels and you should be all set :dizzy:
Anyway, that Ball Caster thing seems quite interesting. If you buy it, please, do tell more !?
DaOld Man, that sounds really interesting!
So, one ON-ON DPDT switch, 4 microswitches, two 100 ohm resistors, and a DB25 (printer) plug.. Of course I'm interested :) I'm sure most of us are, for that matter..?
(Oh. I see... You're just trying to lure us all into the realm of full software control.. step by step ;) )
Actually.. Please, do tell more!
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Just in case you guys are interested:
Since this is a manual switch type mechanism, I have written a small program that will check to see which direction the monitor is turned when you turn on your arcade.
It will then orientate mala (or glaunch) to match the monitor position.
Corn Chip is testing it for me (how's that coming along anyway, CC?)
It will require the addition of two more microswitches, two 100 ohm resistors, and a DB25 (printer) plug.
Simply put, the two additional switches will tell the program, through the printer port, which way the monitor is turned. The program will then turn mala to suit it and then start mala. (The mala screen will always be correct on startup).
Let me know if anyones interested.
Ok guys, I'm ready to dive in full tilt on this. Please supply an online shopping list and a step by step for dummies for this full software control version. :) So far, the upgrade G3 motor/wheel combo from solobarics is winning the race. Now if there was a shopping list for the hbridge, and other misc. electronic parts and switches I think it would be a wonderful addition. I'm interested in the software, but feeling like at this time, I am not informed enough to tackle this myself. If anyone wants an apprentice, let me know. I'm ready to start on a solution for mine.
-csa
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csa3d, you REALLY need to read weisshaupt and DaOld Man's threads & the wiki on rotating monitor.
See these threads:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=72750.0
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=75411.0
This here build is a semi-automatic that's easily transformed into a fully software controlled solution. I just like to have the mounting / motor / drive system done before diving any deeper... What use is software without the actual mechanism it's supposed to control........................
Shopping list? above links & www.solarbotics.com ..maybe even google :)
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Mala can turn the monitor for you.
You will have to interface your motor to teh printer port.
Check out the thread about my rotating monitor project, also the one that koz319 did.
Koz319 was working on a mala plugin that would rotate the monitor and the mame screen based on the game's orientation.
I havent heard back from Koz319 in a long time, I hope all is well with him.
I have been trying to learn some C++ and Delphi to make a mala plugin that will do what I want. Loadman has hinted that he would make me one, I may take him up on it.
But for now, the program I have written is to be started instead of mala on power up.
The program (im calling it rotmala.exe now, but that name will change.) looks at which input is made, then sets mala's orientation according to that.
It then starts mala and rotmala ends.
If you are going to interface your motor to the printer port, you will only need two switches, since you will be taking the switches back to the printer port as inputs, rotmala.exe can look at those inputs.
Im at work right now, when I get home I will post rotmala.exe. (Its not finished, but it should work, just gotta put some help screens on it.)
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Ok,
Sorry to offend. Believe it or not, I have read both threads in full; both are chock-full of good information. I surely can go through both again, and try to piece together the information needed to make it work. Obviously others with minor electrical background understand better. Ultimately, I was hoping for something as strait forward as something you'd find on Makezine.com, without lots of expanation, and clear steps 1,2,3 etc. Maybe I'm asking for too much. ::)
I can probably figure a lot of it out for myself, and I do appreciate what has been previously put out as public info.
Thanks
-csa
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DaOld Man: Yeah, I've been following your progress on the rotating monitor solution, no surprise. Awesome stuff! Totally forgot the Koz319's thread, but have his software etc. downloaded.. just seems that I never get around to even opening those files. Well, probably have to, sooner or later..
And yes please, do post the file. Now that the mount/motor part is more or less taken care of .. it's about time to take a peek at the software solutions too :) Live and learn?
csa3d: NOT! No offence. W(h)ell, I don't understand half the stuff on those threads either and I know I'll have to read them again (and again) if I'm going to make a fully software contolled solution that I understand the workings of. As it is, a semi-automatic solution suits me right at the moment. Full software control is a thing to aim for.. sooner or (probably) later :banghead:
without lots of expanation, and clear steps 1,2,3 etc.
Yeah, I wish that too from time to time ;D But then again, would this hobby be worth anything if you got all the instructions ready-made for you ..IKEA, anyone? :dunno
Software or not, first you'll need a working mounting solution and drive mechanism anyway, I'd think?
PS. Semi-automatic. Works. Nicely. Progress. Later.
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Ok,
Sorry to offend. Believe it or not, I have read both threads in full; both are chock-full of good information. I surely can go through both again, and try to piece together the information needed to make it work. Obviously others with minor electrical background understand better. Ultimately, I was hoping for something as strait forward as something you'd find on Makezine.com, without lots of expanation, and clear steps 1,2,3 etc. Maybe I'm asking for too much. ::)
I can probably figure a lot of it out for myself, and I do appreciate what has been previously put out as public info.
Thanks
-csa
csa: I'm in the same boat as you. I don't know anything about electronics, motors, voltage, etc. but I definitely want to give this a try. My contribution (when I get around to it) will be trying as best as I can to create a guide for dummies with parts list and everything. First, I think I'm going to follow psychotech's example and just get everything working with a switch - it seems (sort of) easy enough to do. It doesn't seem like it would be too tough to make the jump from that to something that interfaces with the computer for automatic rotation which is my ultimate goal.
Maybe I'm way off but wouldn't you just use the same wires that go into the switch and wire them to the printer port and let software do the rest? I will be using MaLa as my front end - hopefully it will be as easy as installing a plug-in).
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Ok, here is a couple of screen shots of rotmala.exe
When you first run the program it will open up the setup mode. (First pic).
You need to set the paths to mala.exe and mala.ini.
Then you need to decide what to do if both inputs are made (stuck switch) or if neither input is made (monitor is between switches.)
You can choose whether to start mala horizontal or vertical.
You can also place a check on "display warning." If you do, and rotmala encounters a input error, it will display a box and allow you to hit any key to go ahead and run mala, or wait to enter setup mode again.
Next you need to choose which inputs your switches are connected to.
Next, choose if the inputs go low when the switch is made (to ground) or if they go high when the switch is made.
Printer port inputs normally "float" high. Its a lot simpler to bring them to ground through a 100 ohm resistor.
Ground pins are 18 thru 25. I suggest you tie all these pins together. Your limut switch will attach to one of these grounds pins, then go through a resistor back to one of the input pins.
Pin 11 on the port is inverted, so I dont suggest you use that one for this project.
Now set your printer port address. You can get this from control panel. (Device manager/ports/lpt port)
Its most likely 888 decimal or 0378 (You can switch between decimal and hex display)
You can look at the status of your inputs by pressing the "Refresh" button in the current input status box.
When you are done, save it and exit.
Next time you run rotmala, it should start your mala based on the input status.
Note: you will need to install a small program called port95nt, this is a driver for the printer port.
You can get it here (http://www.driverlinx.com/DownLoad/DlPortIO.htm)
After you set up rotmala, a file called "rotatemala.set" will be created. This contains the settings you just choose for rotmala.
The second screen shot is it. You can run setup again by opening this file with notepad, change run setup =no to run setup =yes. Or you can delete rotatemala.set
When you start rotmala, setup mode will run.
So, download and install port95nt, then unzip this file to where you can find it easily.
Im sure someone can write us a mala plugin that will do the same as this program.
Let me know what you think.
EDITED To include latest version of Mrotate2. 06/26/09
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Sorry about the misspellings, Ive been up all night..
Also, on the rotmala setup screen, in the "actions to take if both inputs....")
The choices say start glaunch vertical or horizontal. That should read start mala.
I am also developing this program to use with glaunch, I forgot to change those two labels.
When you try to run rotmala, if it asks for an ocx or dll file you dont have, let me know, I can post them.
VB6 (the language I wrote this in) requires certain dll files. When I package a program to install, I include this files.
But this is just the executable.
So the executable may not run, but no big deal if it wont, just have to place the proper dll's in your windows/system32 folder.
Have fun, and I'd like to say you guys are really doing a lot of professional work here. Your projects are really great.
Hopefully I will get back on my project soon, but I wonder, what's next?
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One more note, then Im off to bed..
The rotatemala.set file tells you that you need dlportio.dll.
This is not correct. I must have had my head up my $$# when I wrote that.
You need to download and install port95nt.exe.
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Ultimately, I was hoping for something as strait forward as something you'd find on Makezine.com, without lots of expanation, and clear steps 1,2,3 etc. Maybe I'm asking for too much. ::)
csa: I'm in the same boat as you. I don't know anything about electronics, motors, voltage, etc. but I definitely want to give this a try.
Maybe I'm way off but wouldn't you just use the same wires that go into the switch and wire them to the printer port and let software do the rest? I will be using MaLa as my front end - hopefully it will be as easy as installing a plug-in).
Hi All,
My original intent was to document my rotating mechanism well enough that anyone could copy it, which obviously I have failed at. Probably because I know what I know and make the stupid assumption everyone else does too. If anyone has questions, I am perfectly happy to answer them in PM or here in the forum, and to use that info to better my descriptions and WIKI. I can also add glossary words into the Wiki... I just need to know what parts weren't understood..
My control program is just a separate BAT that can be called form the command line and which 3D arcade/emulaxian calls for me. I also call it at boot up to just tell it to put the screen in the horizontal position. It looks like DaOldMan is writting a similar program/plugin for MALA. Once those pieces are done, there isn't a lot to this really.
Solarbotics sells the motors/and PCB board to drive the motor. The is some simple soldering required- and I stress that- Simple. Buy a socket for the chip (also carried by solarbotics) and you would have to work really really hard to screw it up. I can post a list of the other useful stuff (a DB 25 parallel port to RJ45 adapter - though you could just cut open a printer cable and solder those wires as well) The instuctions provided by solarbotics are pretty complete and well written IMO..http://downloads.solarbotics.net/pdf/kit10.pdf (http://downloads.solarbotics.net/pdf/kit10.pdf)
After that you need 5 wires to be run to the PCB Board from the printer port. 1 to tell it to go right, 1 to tell it to go left, 1 to read switch 1, 1 to read switch 2, and a ground to current will flow. The only thing that would be really useful if if DaOldman and I both agreed on a pinout for the DB25 so both our programs will work with the same wiring..
As with anything, group feedback is important in the evolution of these things, and I think psycotech's microswitch and casters approch and javeryh's lazy susan ideas are both improvements on my original design. I will update the Wiki to reflect these ideas, and provide links to other implementations. But then, its a wiki, so anyone can improve the page... and should!
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weisshaupt: I dont think you failed at all.
Your writeup and information is very valuable, and if it wasnt for me already building an H drive (which is better for the heavy motor I will be using), I would use your circuitry.
Dont sell yourself short.. I know we all appreciate the work you have done.
As far as getting with you on the same inputs, my rotmala can be programmed to use any of the input pins.
Just run the setup mode and click the pins you are using..
Rotmala just automatically sets up your mala screen when you first power on, based on your current monitor position. (i thought it would be good for people who manually turn their monitors.)
It ends there.
Koz319 made a plugin that rotates the screen based on the game you have chosen in mala.
The only problem with his plugin was that you couldnt change its parameters.
It always looks for the inputs going high, which is a little more difficult to do, IMHO. Plus he limited his to pins 2 and 3 for outputs to the drive, and pins 12 and 13 for inputs.
He was supposed to be working on a version that allowed you to set it up, much like I did with rotmala, but I havent heard anything else from him.
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CSA asked for a shopping list, and the thought occured that he might not be the only one who would like one..Of course this it not an endorsement of any particular vendor and I am not affiliated in any way with solarbotics.. they just happen to have the parts I used :>)
From Solarbotics:
GM3 motor (easier to mount than the GM2)
http://www.solarbotics.com/products/gm3/
The Regular Motor 2 upgrade
http://www.solarbotics.com/products/rm2/
The mounting Bracket
http://www.solarbotics.com/products/gmb39/
A wheel
http://www.solarbotics.com/products/gmpw/
A Extra Grip Tread (it is a friction drive after all- the more tire that meets the road)
http://www.solarbotics.com/products/gmtt/
And then for the Electronics you need:
A Chip socket:
http://www.solarbotics.com/products/dc-16_pin/
The secret Motor Driver Kit
http://www.solarbotics.com/products/k_smd/
And of course a soldering iron and some solder. The Chip holder isn't required, but if you are a novice at soldering its a good idea. Too much heat on that IC and you could bust it. Solder the socket to the PBC and that can't happen. Plus if you wire something wrong and blow out he chip, you can just put another one it, rather than trying to desolder it or buy another kit.
For wiring I used a CAT 5 (ethernet) cable. I have my own crimping tools, but you can cut one in half and just solder the open ends to the board.
Then you need a DB25 to RJ45 converter..
Similar to this one..
http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/SearchDetail.asp?productID=805
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weisshaupt: I dont think you failed at all.
As far as getting with you on the same inputs, my rotmala can be programmed to use any of the input pins.
I think the problem is I assumed too much knowledge on behalf of the reader -- some folks don't really want to know how or why it works. They just want to know which wire goes where, and I assumed they could figure it out from what I wrote... which given the comments, they are having a difficult time doing. At least a more difficult time than I intended.... :>)
The configurability is cool, but with great power comes great responsiblity ...
It might make sense to come up with a standard pinout that your program uses by default,
Koz319's pinout sounds fine to me.. and I can modify my little program to mimic it. That way if we put a wiring diagram in the Wiki, your program, Koz319's program and my program will all work "out of the box"
Also, are you incorporating any controls in your program for motor speed? The hard limits provided by Psychotech's switches would have been disasterous in my implementation. My monitor is 20inchs AND bottom heavy. With a larger motor like yours, speed/braking probably will not be an issue, but with these little hobby motors, its a different story. At full speed, my monitor would have hit the hard limit and BOUNCED! Pulseing the "go left" and "go right" leads from your program with different duty cycles will allow the motor to alternately move and brake, keeping any rotational momentum under control... maybe a box where you select a duty-cycle period in seconds, and a slider that goes from 0-100%? Obviously not needed for your implementation, but others will probably need it, and you seem to be WAY better at coding than I...
Also, I haven't played with MALA much.. its a bit off topic, but could someone direct me to information as to why MALA seems to be the front end of choice?
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weisshaupt: I definitely don't mean to offend anyone by saying I want an easier-to-follow solution/example. I read your Ghost In The Machine write-up several times (unbelievably sick job by the way) and it's very very helpful. I do want to know how and why it works as well - it's just that a "stick this wire here" explanation is what someone like me needs to get started. I make the analogy that it's probably like trying to teach a 3 year old that 2+2=4. There's no simpler way to explain it other than 2+2=4 and you want to bang your head against the wall when they just can't grasp the most basic of concepts. I'm that 3 year old when it comes to this stuff. The coolness factor can't be denied though so I'm willing to muddle through it (and torture smarter people such as yourself with questions along the way!).
Oh, I use MaLa because it's very easy to set up and it supports the U360 map plug-in that fatfingers wrote. There is no more guesswork with the controls - I go from Galaga to Street Fighter to Q*bert to Pac-man and it's all seamless to the user. It is also totally skinnable/customizable and there is excellent user support on these forums from loadman and others). Adding an automatic rotating monitor would just about make everything ideal.
When I think about first loading Street Fighter and having the monitor automatically turn horizontal and the controls automatically switch to 8-way and then quitting and loading Pac-man and having the monitor automatically turn vertical and the controls automatically switch to 4-way I can't help but smile. Being user-friendly and looking factory-made are the keys to a great cab, IMO.
:cheers:
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Also, I haven't played with MALA much.. its a bit off topic, but could someone direct me to information as to why MALA seems to be the front end of choice?
My personal opinion is because of ease of setup, the ability to light controls with animation, and the ability to automatically control u360 stick. All the hardware advances made over the past year or so the software application seems to handle quite well. I'm sure other FE's do the same, but I've found no reason to have to look further myself.
-csa
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weisshaupt: I definitely don't mean to offend anyone by saying I want an easier-to-follow solution/example.
No offense taken.. I just really wanted to leave a clear trail behind, and I am disappointed that I failed in the attempt. I will see if I can't get a better step by step put together for the electronics end of it, though I think we need to see a few more attempts before we will know what the "best" mounting method is (hint: not mine)
And if DaOldMan writes his program with Speed control, I think I may try switching over to Mala-- one of the few reasons I uses 3Darcade was it 1) does that really cool rotating cab thing 2) allowed me to call whatever command lines I wanted when I started MAME (and allowed me to insert Mameinfo information into the command line)
Of course, that would mean I would need to purchase u360 sticks....
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Of course, that would mean I would need to purchase u360 sticks....
Be warned: There is currently no solution to light the balltop on those ;) Feel free to figure that out as well :laugh2:
-csa
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CSA asked for a shopping list, and the thought occured that he might not be the only one who would like one..Of course this it not an endorsement of any particular vendor and I am not affiliated in any way with solarbotics.. they just happen to have the parts I used :>)
From Solarbotics:
GM3 motor (easier to mount than the GM2)
http://www.solarbotics.com/products/gm3/
The Regular Motor 2 upgrade
http://www.solarbotics.com/products/rm2/
The mounting Bracket
http://www.solarbotics.com/products/gmb39/
A wheel
http://www.solarbotics.com/products/gmpw/
A Extra Grip Tread (it is a friction drive after all- the more tire that meets the road)
http://www.solarbotics.com/products/gmtt/
And then for the Electronics you need:
A Chip socket:
http://www.solarbotics.com/products/dc-16_pin/
The secret Motor Driver Kit
http://www.solarbotics.com/products/k_smd/
And of course a soldering iron and some solder. The Chip holder isn't required, but if you are a novice at soldering its a good idea. Too much heat on that IC and you could bust it. Solder the socket to the PBC and that can't happen. Plus if you wire something wrong and blow out he chip, you can just put another one it, rather than trying to desolder it or buy another kit.
For wiring I used a CAT 5 (ethernet) cable. I have my own crimping tools, but you can cut one in half and just solder the open ends to the board.
Then you need a DB25 to RJ45 converter..
Similar to this one..
http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/SearchDetail.asp?productID=805
I placed the order for parts! Everything came out to about $50 (including the $20 in shipping - ouch!). Delivery is scheduled for March 6th too so it will be a little while before I can test everything. In the mean time I'm going to try and mount the monitor...
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I placed the order for parts! Everything came out to about $50 (including the $20 in shipping - ouch!). Delivery is scheduled for March 6th too so it will be a little while before I can test everything. In the mean time I'm going to try and mount the monitor...
NiiicE! I did that a few hours ago! Go team rotate LCD!
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weisshaupt:
That program I wrote does not control the motor. I was working on one that will control the motor, but the program Koz319 wrote will work for me, except it can not change input polling from positive to negative.
He said he was going to make it so you can set it up. he was also going to experiment with PWM to control motor speed.
I tried using PWM on my project, but I burned up my H Drive and had to build another.
The motor I have has a right angle gearbox, and the output is only about 50 RPM, so I dont think I really need PWM anyway, so I gave up on it.
I am looking at writing an app to turn the monitor with Glaunch (my first love).
Have you thought about braking your motor? Shorting out the motor leads after the drive shuts off will stop the motor pretty quick.
Here are some links that might help you:
My adventures thus far with rotating monitor. You can read about my PWM attempt too, Lots of folks have made contributions to this thread. (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=72750.0)
Koz319's thread about how he did his setup. (also a link to his website, check it out). (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=72638.msg748909#msg748909)
For those of you who dont want to build your own drive. Heres one already put together. (got link form Koz319's website) (http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/705)
I wanted to go with a more powerful motor than you are using, just because I originally planned on turning a CRT, and looks like I am still going to. The motor I used is from a firebird headlight, the ones where the headlights pop up when you turn them on. Got in from a junk yard. They are on ebay too. But all thats in my thread.
So Im just going to let you guys read it, I feel like Ive already hijacked this thread, and I dont want to do that.
Just a few reminders about using the printer port:
Its current capability is very small. So unless your motor is very tiny, it will need some sort of drive. (Check out the relay drive in my thread. Its simple, but speed control is impossible.)
All the outputs will come on when the machine first boots. This can turn your monitor crooked on boot-up. (I think you overcame that with an and gate? I used a pnp transistor to "kill" my optos. see thread.))
On my machine, output #4 is set on by Windows, so i stayed away from it.
I would look into using isolation, opto isolators are cheap and simple. If you mis-wire something and send 12 volts into your printer port, you could fry your computer. (Thats if you use an external power supply for the motor).
Good luck everyone, and I expect comments on my thread when I get back to that project.
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That program I wrote does not control the motor. I was working on one that will control the motor, but the program Koz319 wrote will work for me, except it can not change input polling from positive to negative.
Hey DaOldMan,
Sorry to hear you aren't writting a motor control program.. that means I might have to try..
I looke at the MALA SDK, and while my programming skills are very rusty, if I am reading it right, it shouldn't be too hard to write one -- except I am not smart enough to build fancy menus to set the motor speed etc, and I would read those values from a config file.. (new fangled windows popups with radio buttons-- too complex for me.. )
Okay, I see what KOZ 319 did.. interesting routing the logic through the limit switches. I suppose it saves a pair of resistors, since you are only sending the Ports own logic signal back to it rather than pullling the input to the power supply.. another enhancement to the cause.. I am using positive logic to drive the H-Bridge at the moment, but there is no reason I can't decide 0, 1 means go CCW instead of 1,0... and it simplifies the circuit, which I think is where most people are hoping we head with this, the benefits of Opto isolators notwithstanding..
My program does brake the motor--(either both leads high or both low brakes the motor on the Secret motor driver kit-- its just a small motor so the stop isn't instantaneous with enough rotational momentum..)
All the outputs will come on when the machine first boots. This can turn your monitor crooked on boot-up. (I think you overcame that with an and gate? I used a pnp transistor to "kill" my optos. see thread.))
I am curious about this.. If they all come on, then you are sending 1,1 to the H-Bridge, which SHOULD brake the motor. At least it does on mine..
Its current capability is very small. So unless your motor is very tiny, it will need some sort of drive.
I wouldn't even try that! Under no circumstance what-so-ever try to power ANY motor with the +5v feed from the printer port! Even these little hobby motors are going to kill it.
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Okay, I see what KOZ 319 did.. interesting routing the logic through the limit switches. I suppose it saves a pair of resistors, since you are only sending the Ports own logic signal back to it rather than pullling the input to the power supply.. another enhancement to the cause.. I am using positive logic to drive the H-Bridge at the moment, but there is no reason I can't decide 0, 1 means go CCW instead of 1,0... and it simplifies the circuit, which I think is where most people are hoping we head with this, the benefits of Opto isolators notwithstanding..
The problem I found with doing it this way is that the printer port inputs normally float high. This means to use a high to trigger them, you first have to bring the pin to low, through a resistor. Then you use another resistor to bring the pin back to high when the switch is made. On the 2 computers I have been playing with, the resistance values had to change from one PC to the other. The inputs may make, or may not make. The printer pin looks for a logic 0 9which is around 0 -1.5 volts, i think) to register a low in the memory address.
If the resistors arent calculated correctly, or if the voltage varies a little (noise), then this voltage could change, and swing the input back high.
In my experiments, I have found that bringing the pin low when the switch is made is a whole easier, just requiring a 100 ohm resistor, just to limit current through the pin.
But the program, whichever one we use, must be able to register the pin going low to say the switch is on.
Also taking the pin low requires no outside power supply. Its the easiest and simplest, IMHO.
My program does brake the motor--(either both leads high or both low brakes the motor on the Secret motor driver kit-- its just a small motor so the stop isn't instantaneous with enough rotational momentum..)
I had my motor wired like KOZ319 did his. When the switch makes, a normally closed contact breaks the current flow to the motor.
In this situation, when computer boots, all inputs go high for a couple seconds.
This does not brake the motor, because one wire to the motor is open (because of the open switch)..
The motor will turn until the monitor comes off the switch, then the motor will brake.
Your circuit may be different, I need to go back and study it more.
.
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Heres a quick sketch that might better explain what Im talking about on the input pins:
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For your info, there's a bundle, GM3 + Wheel at 10$, you can save an extra buck:
http://www.solarbotics.com/products/gmpw_deal/ ;)
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;)
First, .. ...just get everything working with a switch - it seems (sort of) easy enough to do. It doesn't seem like it would be too tough to make the jump from that to something that interfaces with the computer for automatic rotation which is my ultimate goal.
Yeah, just what I was thinking ;)
DaOld Man, Thanks for the software, have to try it in the near future..
weisshaupt, that Secret Motor Driver sure looks the part I'll have to buy in a few weeks' time :) And like DaOld Man said, "Your writeup and information is very valuable" ..it's just that I had to get instant gratification, err I mean I had to test the mounting as soon as possible ;)
At full speed, my monitor would have hit the hard limit and BOUNCED!
- That's just the reason I had to install the small wheels, nearly frictionless the monitor started bouncing back from the limits ..not damaging anything but really annoying. With a little added friction, well...
Thank you guys for all the additional info & inspiration !! Feel free to "Hijack" this thread :)
Hopefully this thread serves as a starting point for at least a few people starting with monitor rotation..
I really like how with everyone's contributions here now is
1) a possible mounting/drive method description with more possibilities mentioned in the discussion
2) semi-automatic rotation control descriptions & diagrams for instant gratification
3) software and instructions to add some automation to the switch controlled solution
4) parts list for the drive mechanism and links to additional information
5) software and information on full software control to take the system to the next level
So, yet another take -> yet another getting started with...
I'll be following all the threads mentioned here for sure ;)
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Looks like things will heat up over at Solarbotics if this method takes off. The GM3 motor seems to pack a punch for little cash. That rig really seems to work.
I noticed your rig seems to be a little unbalanced causing the motor to underdrive/overdrive. You might want to try adding some counter weight opposite the heavy spot (I thing the monitor cable might also have something to do with that as well). It might smoothen out the movement. My CRT is also severely bottom heavy...but the balancing wasn't needed as the motor uses a 'worm' drive combined with extra gearing with the sprockets. Still there is a perceptible note change to the sound of the motor as it travels from vertical back to horizontal.
Cornchip.
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Looks like things will heat up over at Solarbotics if this method takes off. The GM3 motor seems to pack a punch for little cash. That rig really seems to work.
I've been waiting for Randy to creep out of the woodwork and hit us with yet another amazing hardware release ;) An "out of the box" solution would be welcomed I would imagine.
-csa
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Maybe it's time for a little market research? ;D
Cornchip.
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Cornchip, Yeah, the monitor is slightly bottom heavy but it's really about the weight of the monitor cables (both the DVI & power cables) it's dragging behind ..they're just lying on the floor in those videos. And the fact that it's running at only 4.5V... Already tried the same solution with the cables in place adding their weight but not just dragging along the textured carpet seen in the videos; much better ;) Another thing's that at some point of building the monitor mount I degreased most of the bearing parts (instead of washing my hands every fifteen minutes) ..just added some again .. :) I'm quite hard pressed to really hear a difference anymore. Might shoot another video clip later as I get hold of the camera.. Can't do videos on mine :(
That counterweight thing sounds good! Well, I've still a cabinet to design and build before fine tuning this .. ;)
And hey, your solution is just awesome :applaud: Way beyond my capabilities!
Anyway, with this little motor and the semi-automatic solution with no other additional control than friction & voltage management it's an balancing act ..weight/friction/voltage/speed.. Think I've got it quite nicely set up at the moment. Wouldn't recommend this solution to anyone using a CRT, though ;) Well, maybe with a lazy susan and weisshaupt or DaOld Man's software. Oh, no CRTs with lazy susans :( ..
I'm happy with the mounting, the bearings and the actual friction drive solution at the moment, but with DaOld Man and/or weisshaupt's motor control software I'm sure it'd be just awesome! Well, I've time to learn more and make it better..
csa3d, 20% off for all BYOAC orders.... that should be fair ?
Cornchip, make a package deal and you'll be yet another overnight BYOAC millionaire ;) Still, whoever comes up with a reasonably priced and (at least relatively) easy to implement complete solution should at least get ________, ________, __________ and ______________. And that's a fact!
:)
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. You might want to try adding some counter weight opposite the heavy spot
Highly recomended- My 20 inch LCD was having a diffiuclt time with the little motor till I did that...
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. You might want to try adding some counter weight opposite the heavy spot
Highly recomended- My 20 inch LCD was having a diffiuclt time with the little motor till I did that...
Works on my rotisserie grill! lol
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Well, DOH!
I already knew that.. :banghead: Will try that as soon as possible :notworthy:
Talking 'bout a balancing act and all ... ::)
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Maybe it's time for a little market research? ;D
Cornchip.
Okay. ...
How many people are willing to pay for a simple Cable (Parallel or Serial) and software that connects to a PCB with headers for connecting the motor and and the limit switches ? How much would you pay?
How many would want to see a package that included the limit switches and motor? How much would you pay?
How many would want to see a Pre-fab-ed Mounting assembly (with standard VESA mounts) ready to slap a monitor on, with Motor, and electonics etc integrated into the assembly? How much would ou pay?
What sort of a premium (over the cost that you would get at say newegg) you you pay for Pre-balanced Monitors KNOWN to have a wide viewing angle in both aspects and the convience of a one-stop shop...?
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At this point, I feel I'd want the "kit" to be packaged like so:
Includes:
Complete "Lazy susan" stand assembly. This three part stand...
1. Comes with bolts, drilling guide (ala GGG trackball mounting instructions), and hardware to permanently mount it to a wooden cross brace which the owner provides on their cab
2. Comes complete with the lazy susan axis which the user can assemble
3. comes with a mounting plate that fits standard VESA mount monitor spacing.
4. Pre-drilled and for electronics, including limiting switches, brackets, and wire ties to tidy it up out of the box
Complete motor mount. This motor mount..
1. Would be assembled in such a way, that a user could adjust heights, thus changing contact friction depending on mount style.
2. Could be somehow build into the above lazy susan stand, thus eliminating mounting and adjustments.
3. Would use 5 or 12 volts, and hook directly into a PC power supply for power
4. Would come with friction wheels, chain drive, etc. matching components big enough to rotate a typical monitor weight of say a 24" monitor
All Electronics and connecting wires would be included to complete this kit. They would come pre-soldered like Randy's trackball lighting kits. If we need to wire anything, it comes with screw terminals and clear instructions on what goes where. Though the user has to do nothing beyond wire splicing and connecting cords (usb, parallel, serial, cat5, whatever)
All software for this kit would be included, and proven to work with the GameEX, Atomic, and Mala, and DOS
Price point on this would not exceed $200-250 max. For the money, you are getting assembled electronic boards, limiters, wires, the hardware, the software, materials, and the ability to plug and play a solution. You don't need tools beyond the basics of screwdriver, knife, and basic wiring needs. The user supplies the monitor and external power supply. Builders don't need saws, soldering knowledge, programming knowledge. So you are saving money both in time invested in learning, and in not having to buy tools to make the magic happen.
I have spent 50$ thus far on ording parts from the above shopping list, and all ready own woodworking tools necessary to build the unit. If I was going with the pie plate/lazy susan technique, that's gonna run another 25$, plus bolts and hardware (15$ I'm guessing), limiters (have them but 10$ max), angle brackets (10$), and maybe some more wood (50$). That's 105$ more dollars roughly, plus the 50$ I spent, is about 150$ money my DYI self puts in.. plus the free and gracious software help this board supplies for free! Since you're suppling instructions and software with tech support, that ups the price and for what it's worth, I think that price point is about right. I'd imagine some items will cost more to make, some maybe less. Just my opinion.
-csa
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Well..
Wouldn't be a feasible solution for me as it would be an overseas order ..and with all the postage, taxes, possible customs and everything..
Anyway, for someone starting from scratch, I'd think csa3d's price estimate is about right - with the set he's described here. Oh, now I'm sure this BYO is .., well, the option for me ;)
Good luck. Long live and prosper :cheers:
PS. Thanks for all the valuable information..
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WOW!
This Is hot SH#T!
Makes me want to automate the rotating CP I'm working on
Nice Work!!! :applaud:
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My parts arrived and I am already overwhelmed without even opening anything! The "secret" motor driver came in pieces. I think there are resistors or something in the bag with some pretty wires... As far as I can tell, the rubber tread goes on the wheel. The wheel attaches to the motor with the little screw that came in the bag. I have to swap out the GM2 motor with the GM3 one that came separate. I've never soldered before either so I hope I don't screw this up...
:dizzy:
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My parts arrived and I am already overwhelmed without even opening anything! The "secret" motor driver came in pieces. I think there are resistors or something in the bag with some pretty wires... As far as I can tell, the rubber tread goes on the wheel. The wheel attaches to the motor with the little screw that came in the bag. I have to swap out the GM2 motor with the GM3 one that came separate. I've never soldered before either so I hope I don't screw this up...
:dizzy:
Don't work, it looks harder than it is..
PM me if you have questions. When soldering:
1) Go slow. Don't be in a rush
2) make sure you have some solder flux - Radioshack sells little syringe type tubes of it. I little dab of that will make things much easier
3) Helping hands (or some other way to secure the piece and wire being worked on) helps a lot
4) Have a solder wick handy (basically a roll of thin braided copper wire) If you make a mistake, heat up the solder wick and watch your solder get pulled off of the piece.
5) Don't use globs of solder. A small amount is sufficent to hold the wire in place. You want a solid connection, but you are NOT welding.
Work is progressing nicely on the MALA plugin
I hope to be ready for my first hardware tests today...
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My parts arrived
You beat me! Mine should be in soon. I have to visit radioshack myself, and pick up said soldering supplies.
I have picked up a 15 3/4" pizza plate, and a 12" lazy susan bearing. I'm pretty read to go once my parts arrive. How are you planning on incorporating a lazy susan bearing into your rig? Going with a wood top or metal? The good thing (i thought) about the 12" bearing was that it has like a 5" center hole, which is enough space to mount the vesa screws directly to the pizza plate w/o having to add a middle wood riser or other sort of mounting plate.
-csa
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csa3d: I'm not sure on the lazy susan yet but I am thinking of using a wooden one. I might just buy the whole thing (not just the bearings) and attach the monitor to the plate with screws. The problem might be finding the exact center point of the lazy susan and lining everything up. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. Right now all I need to buy is the lazy susan and I've got to borrow my friend's soldering iron.
weisshaupt: Thanks for the advice - I will take all I can get. I'll be taking pictures and stuff to document my progress when I get around to it. I'll definitely be asking tons of questions. Also, awesome news about the MaLa plug-in! That would be the easiest software solution for the uninformed masses such as myself.
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Well, I just spent the better part of the morning making a circle cutting jig for my router so I can cut the large wheel... I haven't picked up the lazy susan yet but I wanted to try and move this project forward a little bit. My wife works weekends during tax season so I'm with the kids... it's kind of tough to work.
I'm hoping to go to Home Depot this afternoon to pick up the 4 mini-casters and the bolt to pivot everything on... if they have lazy susans or bearings I'm probably going to go with that instead of the center bolt. We shall see...
EDIT: Home Depot does not carry the mini-casters or any type of axle/lazy susan bearings according to the 4 different people I asked. I hate that place. All I managed to pick up was the screws for the monitor mount ($0.98!). I am headed to Target this morning to buy an actual lazy susan. I hope to cut the MDF circle today and mount everything (pending my schedule). I don't have a soldering iron so I don't think I'll be getting anything up and running but at least I'll have something to look at...
EDIT#2: I just struck out at Target. I'm hitting Michael's later this afternoon. What a pain!
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The home depot in my area does have the rotating lazy susan bearing.
I had to show the guy a picture of it before he could find it.
Check in the area where the casters are kept.
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I would advise against the lazy susan bearing. this past weekend I mounted my 12" bearing, only to find it had too much side to side play during rotation, and too much friction for the solaberics hobby motor to handle. I have pics which I didn't get time to post this afternoon. I DID buy mine from lowes... but i'm pretty convinced a 7$ solution was too good to be true.
-csa
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Posted my Lazy Susan mounting experience (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=77692.msg809679#msg809679) to supplement my warning ;) I'm still interested to see how you end up with your lazy susan Javery.
-csa
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The one I bought from home depot looks different from yours. It was also cheaper.. around 5 US dollars.
I havent had a chance to mount it yet, but it does appear to have a slight side-to-side "slop" in it.
I dont think that will matter on my CRT though, cause most of the weight will be in the front. I will be using the bearing to hold the monitor in correct position front to back.
I am a little worried about how much noise it makes when turned. I see yours does too from the video.
I have not been able to find the small casters anywhere around here.
I did find these at homedepot.com, havent had a chance yet to check them out for real (closest home depot is 30 miles away). They are drawer rollers, and come in a pack of two for $2.33.
In my case with the CRT, these will probably be easier to mount, in your case you may have to modify them a bit.
Click here (http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?jspStoreDir=hdus&catalogId=10053&marketID=401&productId=100119713&onlineStore=true&locStoreNum=8125&navFlow=3&keyword=r+7147&langId=-1&searchRedirect=r+7147&storeId=10051&endecaDataBean=com.homedepot.sa.el.wc.catalog.beans.EndecaDataBean%402459cad1&ddkey=Search)
If the link dont work, go to homedepot.com and search for item # R 7147
These look a little weak, so I dont know, I need to look at them for real.
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The one I bought from home depot looks different from yours. It was also cheaper.. around 5 US dollars.
I havent had a chance to mount it yet, but it does appear to have a slight side-to-side "slop" in it.
I dont think that will matter on my CRT though, cause most of the weight will be in the front. I will be using the bearing to hold the monitor in correct position front to back.
I am a little worried about how much noise it makes when turned. I see yours does too from the video.
I have not been able to find the small casters anywhere around here.
I did find these at homedepot.com, havent had a chance yet to check them out for real (closest home depot is 30 miles away). They are drawer rollers, and come in a pack of two for $2.33.
In my case with the CRT, these will probably be easier to mount, in your case you may have to modify them a bit.
Click here (http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?jspStoreDir=hdus&catalogId=10053&marketID=401&productId=100119713&onlineStore=true&locStoreNum=8125&navFlow=3&keyword=r+7147&langId=-1&searchRedirect=r+7147&storeId=10051&endecaDataBean=com.homedepot.sa.el.wc.catalog.beans.EndecaDataBean%402459cad1&ddkey=Search)
If the link dont work, go to homedepot.com and search for item # R 7147
These look a little weak, so I dont know, I need to look at them for real.
I'm thinking I will probably look for small wheels as well... two of them placed at the bottom of the wheel to help minimize the side to side wobble, and possibly 4 under the bearing to either suppliment or replace it all together. I haven't looked at the hardware store yet, but I'm betting the quality of the small wheels suck, just like the cheap bearing. I've been thinking a bit, and remember as a kid, that skateboard wheel bearings were things you could buy good quality vs. bad quality. The good ones would turn forever.. so I might pop into a skate shop and see if they have a bagain bin of skate wheels and then pick up the best bearings they sell, and mount them using bolts and L-Brackets from the hardware store.
Dunno.. I forsee the rotating mechanics costing a bit of research money.
-csa
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I think if you could find the small rollers that psychotech used, his way would probably be the best do far. (for LCDs).
But I would do it just a little differently (bet you didnt see that one coming ;D )
I would cut the wood disk that the monitor fastens too bigger.
This would allow room to mount 4 blocks on either side of the monitor. These blocks would extend out flush with teh front of the monitor.
You could then cut out a round poster board circle (the thick foam filled stuff).
You would cut out for the monitor viewing area in the center of poster board.
This poster board would be big enough to cover the gap between the round wood disk and the monitor panel of your arcade. The rest of the poster board would cover the entire monitor panel.
The blocks need to be thin enough to get very close to the edge of the monitor board of the arcade.
The round poster board would fasten to the 4 blocks with small screws.
I would then cut another piece of very thin poster board, same color as the first board.
This second board would cover the entire monitor panel too, but also extend in far enough to cover the gap between the first two boards and the screws that mount the round poster.
You would then have a clean rotating monitor, IMHO.
I have attached a crude drawing that may help explain my concept. It is not to any dimensions or scale.
The thin last piece of poster board is not shown.
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csa3d - great info! Thanks for that post. I never even though there would be side-to-side movement but now that you've said something I can totally see it. I was planning on using a 3" lazy susan like THIS (http://cgi.ebay.com/FLAT-LAZY-SUSAN-BEARINGS-3-INCH-200-lb-MADE-IN-USA_W0QQitemZ170089065204QQcmdZViewItem#ShippingPayment) but now I'm a little unsure how it will perform. I'm hoping the smaller size will leave less room for movement other than along the bearings... I will let everyone know!
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I just bought a 3" lazy susan bearing for $4.15 shipped. I'm hoping there isn't too much side-to-side play between the bearings and the casing. I'll report back once I get everything set up!
HERE (http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Lazy-Susan-Bearings_W0QQitemZ110202299289QQcmdZViewItem) is the link to the eBay auction I bought from - I did a "Buy It Now" and the cost was $1.15 for the lazy susan and $3.00 to ship it.
The plan is to mount this to a circular panel made out of 1/2" MDF. The tricky part will be getting it exactly centered. :cheers:
EDIT: Woo hoo! The eBay seller shipped it yesterday - that was fast! Now I'm hoping it will be here in time for the weekend so I can mess around...
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Hello there ;)
Great stuff! Soon we're all rotating :dizzy:
Really have to appreciate the software development DaOld Man, weisshaupt & all have done on the rotation front. You guys rule for real :notworthy: :notworthy:
---------------------------------------
After a bit of Googling I did actually found the wheel/caster/whatever I used.. actually bought mine from a car parts store, but these should be available at your local gardening/home improvement/whatever stores also..?
Anyway..
The wheel I made my bearing out of was almost identical to these: http://www.hjulex.se/index.php?id=16&type_ref_id=11&L=0 - Bought the rightmost for 3.95 EUR (something like $6), not bad? I think the Art. No. 299064 comes closest, if not identical. It's a roller bearing solution ..and it's awesome!
You might be able to see a similar roller bearing here @ http://www.hjulex.se/index.php?id=16&type_ref_id=22&L=0 or on a picture from my initial post.. like this:
(http://www.telemail.fi/psychotech/Project_2008_01/004.jpg)
or
(http://www.telemail.fi/psychotech/Project_2008_01/006.jpg)
The beauty of the roller bearing is that the bearing(s) actually go(es) through (almost all of) the mechanism and so it should be a real "strong" solution.. Fun for a lifetime ..maybe.
And, hey. Here: (http://www.telemail.fi/psychotech/Project_2008_01/003.jpg) you can see the (almost rusty looking) spacer between the washers.. that's a part of the wheel mechanism also. So, no need for additional tinkering here either.
All the "washerwork" seen in the pictures is to make the monitor plate to "just about to" touch the small wheels for added friction. The big wheels bearings really do not need them. No slack, no sideways movement. No give.
With weisshaupt's new MaLa plug-in, I'm pretty sure the bearing would be enough!?
Mounting the wheel bearing? In my case the main housing was something like 25mm (just a hair width short of 1" ..) and so I just used a 24mm holesaw and finetuned with sandpaper.. installed with a hammer and some glue ..it's never gonna come out again. Maintenance? Maybe some grease every seven years or so, should work :)
Whatever you do, don't do it like i did it. Do it right.
L8r. psychotech
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I have to do some yard work and then I'm going to give this a shot... The bearings have about 1/32" play but it doesn't seem like it will be a concern. Using my hands, I put some shearing pressure on both "plates" of the bearing to simulate the weight of the monitor (and then some) and I was easily able to rotate them with an equal amount of friction. I think this is going to work.
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I would cut the wood disk that the monitor fastens too bigger.
This would allow room to mount 4 blocks on either side of the monitor. These blocks would extend out flush with teh front of the monitor.
You could then cut out a round poster board circle (the thick foam filled stuff).
You would cut out for the monitor viewing area in the center of poster board.
This poster board would be big enough to cover the gap between the round wood disk and the monitor panel of your arcade. The rest of the poster board would cover the entire monitor panel.
Sort of like. . . this?
(http://zobeid.zapto.org/caviar/image/rotavator01.jpg)
I'm looking at building a wooden cage around my monitor, effectively. It will be a panel-mount monitor, so it will actually attach to the front piece of wood. Four blocks will connect it to the rear piece, which in turn will connect to the lazy susan bearing, which will connect to the board in the cabinet supporting the whole assemblage.
It could work just the same with a rear-mounted (VESA) monitor. In that case the monitor would attach to the rear circle instead of the front one. But the front piece would still be required to support the rotating part of the bezel and for the user to push on. It has to be solid because that's what the user will grab onto when he rotates the monitor. (It's done manually in my plan, as you know.)
There will be some sort of knob or a hole -- not shown -- in the front circle where you can grip and give it a push. So it has to be strong both in front and in back.
I was wary of desktop LCD monitors because I could never find out whether the VESA mounting point is centered, whether it requires access to the front panel to adjust, whether it will come back on after losing power, etc. With an industrial panel-mount monitor there should be a lot fewer variables.
The bezel will be another thing. My hope is to have a circular bezel made of laser-cut tinted acrylic that moves along with the monitor, and a slightly overlapping frame of laser-cut ABS around it.
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yeah that should work.
I am going to use blocks from the circular board to the edge of the screen. (Im using a CRT).
I can then attach the thin poster board cut in a circle, to the blocks.
This should give a plush appearance.
Plexi will go over all that.
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OK, I found an hour last night and tried mounting the monitor using the lazy susan bearing. What a huge pain!!! I mean it was easy to do but I encountered a few extra steps I didn't think about - first and foremost was after attaching one panel to one side how do you attach the other panel to the other side??? I worked it out but I had to drill a ton of holes. As for the rotation... I'll let you know. I bought some 1" machine screws to mount the monitor but they had the wrong threading so it's off to Home Depot today to try and find the right kind...
I'll do a more "formal" write-up with lots more pics once I sort everything out. Also, my camera totally blows. Everything is out of focus and 1/2 the pics I took are useless.
Picture 1: Cutting the circle was fun. I made my own router table/circle cutting jig and it came out OK. Definitely good enough for this project. The board just pivots around the center pin - easy!
Picture 2: Here you can get a pretty good look at the lazy susan mechanism. Imagine screwing it down to the panel. Now imagine trying to screw down the opposite panel. Madness I tell ya!!!
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Picture 3: Here you can see all of the layout I had to do to get this to work. The holes in the 4 corners of the "square" are for the monitor bolts (these are through holes). The holes on the diagonals that are inside of the monitor bolt holes are for mounting the lazy susan bearing. Finally, the large holes are for mounting the opposite panel to the lazy susan bearing. I had to go through the circle panel in order to attach anything to the other side.
Picture 4 and Picture 5: Here you can see the lazy susan mount actually screwed into place. The first pic shows it out of place and the second pic shows it in place where you can imagine coming through the large holes from the other side in order to secure it to the other panel.
As for the rotation of everything, it is quite good. Not much play and the rotation is smooth. I'm not going to be sure this will be the way to go until I mount the monitor and set it at the proper angle. That's about it for now. Once I find the right screws I'll take a short movie of it rotating so everyone can see how it works. It's a start! :cheers:
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I bought some 1" machine screws to mount the monitor but they had the wrong threading so it's off to Home Depot today to try and find the right kind...
They are metric- M4...
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Good stuff Javery! I know what you mean with mounting the 2nd side to the bearing.. ran into that as well on mine. I think the three inch bearing was a better choice over the twelve for less play. Did you have to do anything fancy to allow room for the VESA mount, since the three inch bearing essentially covers the space the VESA mounting holes were spaced for, or did I miss that in the pics above? Do make sure you get your Secret Motor driver working, and see if that motor is strong enough to turn your unit also, before declaring success ;D You might also want to pic up a can of that plastic spray "Dip" coating stuff, depending on the friction you get. I've got a can on reserve just in case.
I was messing with it this morning, and I'm pretty sure I have about 1/4" play in my bearing.. booo!! Stay away from the twelves!
The good news on my front, is that I'm stocking up parts for Good Friday, when I have off work. I have everything I need to mount my monitor, and I'm pretty sure this method is going to be way better then my old one.
-csa
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They are metric- M4...
Awesome - thanks. I'll be on the look out for them. I bought #10s (I think) and then fit the hole but got stuck after one revolution...
Good stuff Javery! I know what you mean with mounting the 2nd side to the bearing.. ran into that as well on mine. I think the three inch bearing was a better choice over the twelve for less play. Did you have to do anything fancy to allow room for the VESA mount, since the three inch bearing essentially covers the space the VESA mounting holes were spaced for, or did I miss that in the pics above? Do make sure you get your Secret Motor driver working, and see if that motor is strong enough to turn your unit also, before declaring success ;D You might also want to pic up a can of that plastic spray "Dip" coating stuff, depending on the friction you get. I've got a can on reserve just in case.
I was messing with it this morning, and I'm pretty sure I have about 1/4" play in my bearing.. booo!! Stay away from the twelves!
The good news on my front, is that I'm stocking up parts for Good Friday, when I have off work. I have everything I need to mount my monitor, and I'm pretty sure this method is going to be way better then my old one.
-csa
Thanks! The bearing does seem to be working nicely. There is slight side-to-side play but probably like 1/16"-1/32" - it's pretty small. There is also a little play in the other plane of about the same amount. Once everything is in place though I think the weight of the monitor will keep everything in order.
I did have to ditch the monitor mounting plate because the bearing was in the way. I will just have the 4 machine screws going through the MDF panel into the back of the monitor. I hope I can finish it up this weekend although I'm not sure about the electrical components since I don't have a soldering iron (and I've never done it). I'll work something out... :cheers:
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I hope I can finish it up this weekend although I'm not sure about the electrical components since I don't have a soldering iron (and I've never done it). I'll work something out... :cheers:
Ha. Good luck with that. I screwed my first attempt up. 1. I looked at the instructions twice, yet still ended up soldering the chip adapter upside down on the board! :badmood: Then I didn't have a desolderer, so pick one up. You'll probably be sloppy like I was with something. 2. When I finally got everything soldered back in, that rainbow colored ribbon isn't super strong. So temporarily attaching and detaching test wires kept breaking off portions of the rainbow ribbon, and mine is now super short. For testing, you might want to pick up some plastic wire mount thinger like the one from the front of this thread, and then use REAL wires for testing circuit changes.
Good luck again!
-csa
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javeryh :applaud:
Looking really good!
Still, seems to be even more work than with a wheel bearing..?!
Good luck with the Secret Motor driver :cheers:
...some plastic wire mount thinger like the one from the front of this thread, and then use REAL wires for testing circuit changes.
Something like this, maybe ???
http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=69&products_id=201
REAL wires? :P
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Still, seems to be even more work than with a wheel bearing..?!
I dunno.. the wheel requires hacking and sawing of parts, and fishing for the right bolts and washers, plus you've found some mystery mini caster wheels that I dont' think any US home improvement stores carry. The bearing is a single part, which everyone carries, but does require you to drill some holes.
If I was going shopping, I feel Javery's method feels cleaner from a parts standpoint. :dunno Both are great ideas. I still feel that your method is a more sturdy axle solution so far based off my bearing experience. Javery might prove me wrong next weekend ;)
...some plastic wire mount thinger like the one from the front of this thread, and then use REAL wires for testing circuit changes.
Something like this, maybe ???
http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=69&products_id=201
exactly
REAL wires? :P
Wires that will allow you to twist on and off multiple times without breaking off from the stress of twisting. The rainbow cable provided from soloroberics is not meant for that kind of usage, and becomes brittle quickly.
-csa
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I bought some 1" machine screws to mount the monitor but they had the wrong threading so it's off to Home Depot today to try and find the right kind...
They are metric- M4...
Indeed he is correct. I took the screw to Lowes and the guy used the little fitters to determine which I needed, and managed to do so incorrectly. After reading this post, I went back myself and tried those fitters and no question.. M4 was it!
Just fyi, screws confirmed!
-csa
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Indeed he is correct. I took the screw to Lowes and the guy used the little fitters to determine which I needed, and managed to do so incorrectly. After reading this post, I went back myself and tried those fitters and no question.. M4 was it!
was there a doubt? :D The Screw threads are specified as part of the VESA standard. Every VESA standard mount SHOULD be using M4 threads.
Sorry to hear the Soldering gave you so much trouble.... I agree the ribbon cable that they supply is a bit flimsy and breaks a bit too easily. Feel free to substitute other wires- as long as you can solder them in without touching, all should be well. Braided Cat 5 is probably the best, solid core second (solid core can break if bent once too often)
I used a short terminal (barrier) strip to attach the ribbon cables wire to the Parallel port cable. I highly recommend doing this as it 1) saves soldering 2) gives you a nice demark that keeps strain off of the chip itself..
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javeryh :applaud:
Looking really good!
Still, seems to be even more work than with a wheel bearing..?!
Good luck with the Secret Motor driver :cheers:
Thanks! You may be right about it being more work but I have yet to find a suitable axle bearing like you came up with. I'm also not sure how to connect the axle using my mounting hardware (attached). Ideally, the axle is probably the best solution because it allows for zero movement other than the rotation (which is the goal, obviously).
I'm going to try and pick up some M4 machine screws tonight. I also realized that the frame/bezel of my monitor isn't uniform (it's thicker on the bottom). I'm hoping the manufacturer centered the mount with the screen and not with the entire unit or else it won't line up properly when vertical....
:cheers:
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I'm hoping the manufacturer centered the mount with the screen and not with the entire unit or else it won't line up properly when vertical....
You might hope that, but sadly they probably did not.. I had to offset mine because the Mount was about 3/4 inch off center vertically (in a 4x3 position) Of course, I didn't figure that out till I put it behind my carefully masked and painted bezel...
I think I would make my monitor side mount out of 3/4 ijnch MDF, and inset the M4 screws so they were flush with the wood, and mount the monitor. I would then mount my lazy susan bearing to the Cabinet side of the mount. Drill one hole through the cabinet side mount so you can screw the monitor side mount in by rotating it to each new screw position. Do that you should be able able to deal with any offset the monitor folks decided to throw at you, even if it isn't the thinest thing in the world.
:cheers:
[/quote]
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Indeed he is correct. I took the screw to Lowes and the guy used the little fitters to determine which I needed, and managed to do so incorrectly. After reading this post, I went back myself and tried those fitters and no question.. M4 was it!
was there a doubt? :D The Screw threads are specified as part of the VESA standard. Every VESA standard mount SHOULD be using M4 threads.
Nah.. I bought my screws first, then you posted, then I checked the ones I bought.. and sure enough.. back to the store I went this morning ;) Oh well.
Sorry to hear the Soldering gave you so much trouble.... I agree the ribbon cable that they supply is a bit flimsy and breaks a bit too easily. Feel free to substitute other wires- as long as you can solder them in without touching, all should be well. Braided Cat 5 is probably the best, solid core second (solid core can break if bent once too often)
Soldering probably would have gone better, should I not have been flustered with incorrectly soldering the first chip onto the board. That ribbon cable was tough though! I'll be getting a desoldering iron and trying my luck with cat5 like you suggest.. since I have a ton of that lying around anyways.
I used a short terminal (barrier) strip to attach the ribbon cables wire to the Parallel port cable. I highly recommend doing this as it 1) saves soldering 2) gives you a nice demark that keeps strain off of the chip itself..
Lowes.com does not carry these. Will try Radio Shack tomorrow.. bet they have 'em.
Thanks again for all your help.
-csa
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javeryh,
If the left mounting plate in the picture is a standard VESA mounting plate AND if you find a suitable wheel/bearing there should be no problems.. *
1. With a quality bearing you DO NOT need the wheels. (I'm using the wheels only for added friction - built the mount for semiautomatic rotation with hard stops ..with this solution no friction equals bouncing.. not too much fun..)
2. With software controlled rotation ..well, you don't need the wheels. With the semi I don't have too much control of the rotation speed: so, a friction drive.. at the moment ;) (cornchip ..nice gears ;) )
3. Hope the following picture(s) help(s)... *
1" center hole for the axle ...
(http://www.telemail.fi/psychotech//Project_2008_01/mount003.gif)
Another angle with wheels etc. - useless.
(http://www.telemail.fi/psychotech//Project_2008_01/mount002.gif)
Back again...
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Thanks! The bearing does seem to be working nicely. There is slight side-to-side play but probably like 1/16"-1/32" - it's pretty small. There is also a little play in the other plane of about the same amount. Once everything is in place though I think the weight of the monitor will keep everything in order.
I did have to ditch the monitor mounting plate because the bearing was in the way. I will just have the 4 machine screws going through the MDF panel into the back of the monitor. I hope I can finish it up this weekend although I'm not sure about the electrical components since I don't have a soldering iron (and I've never done it). I'll work something out... :cheers:
Did you get any time to work on it over the long weekend? I got the skatewheel bearing going, and so far I feel this is going to work out really well. Curious to see how that 3" bearing plays out.
-csa
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I mounted the monitor and everything but that's about it. It is a very smooth rotation but now I need to work out where the microswitches will go and what will be activating them. There's obviously no room between the panels since the lazy susan bearing is so thin so they will have to be mounted elsewhere. I like what I've done but I'm still not 100% convinced it's the optimal way to go.
I was doing family stuff all weekend so I didn't have time to film anything - I hope to this week. :cheers:
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southpaw13 ...
This thread you're now reading and...
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=72750.0
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=59170.msg815384#msg815384
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=75411.0
+javeryh's...
??? Have fun ::)
:cheers:
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OK, my rotating project is on it's way. I went the lazy susan route but bought a much bigger one. Pro's---can run the wires through the middle, Con's---don't know how much resistance (friction) I will have to deal with. One question, I bought the on,off,on toggle switch...is there a better wiring diagram out there?
Thanks,
Southpaw
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OK, my rotating project is on it's way. I went the lazy susan route but bought a much bigger one. Pro's---can run the wires through the middle, Con's---don't know how much resistance (friction) I will have to deal with.
I'll assume you read the Lazy Susan vs. Pizza Pan (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=77692.0) thread? This is a 12" bearing, and I thought it would be the one to beat; I was very wrong. It rotated terribly due to crappy bearing friction, plus had a lot of side to side play, which means one couldn't be assured a perfect rotation about a center pivot. I wanted to use the larger for the wire tunneling as well.
If you did read it, then good luck to you.. do let us know which bearing you are using and how it worked out. You will probably need to buy an expensive one, meant to handle a lot more weight then muffins (to steal the quote from someone else) lol
-csa
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Good luck with your project southpaw13 :applaud:
"..a better wiring diagram out there?"
Well, there are at least two different diagrams on this thread for a semiautomatic solution... (And a basic ON-ON switch is the best final option (the ON-OFF-ON version is great for fine tuning the system, though) I'd say.)
Going to build a "semiautomatic" rotation system? If so, the wiring diagram(s) should be enough. Really. If you're going to build a software controlled system I'd suggest ...well, more reading ..all the info is available on (or linked to in) the threads listed above.
And yes, do take pictures and document the project as soon as you actually start building it.
Have fun :cheers:
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I have been taking pictures, but it is a little early to post. My motor won't come in until the 11th. I thought the on/off/on option would be a little better because it would actually send a stop signal to the motor instead of just full clockwise or counter clockwise. A small stop in between might extend the motor life. I actually want to have it working through software at some point once the plug-ins for Mala are working properly. I already got the lazy susan system operating pretty good right now. My success will be in the strength of the motor. I want to mount it to the top of the monitor and have the option of mounting a second motor to the botton if there is not enough torque.
Thoughts?
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I have been taking pictures, but it is a little early to post. My motor won't come in until the 11th. I thought the on/off/on option would be a little better because it would actually send a stop signal to the motor instead of just full clockwise or counter clockwise. A small stop in between might extend the motor life. I actually want to have it working through software at some point once the plug-ins for Mala are working properly. I already got the lazy susan system operating pretty good right now. My success will be in the strength of the motor. I want to mount it to the top of the monitor and have the option of mounting a second motor to the botton if there is not enough torque.
Thoughts?
The Beta Program is stilll open if you want to PM me.. I haven't gotten any feedback from anyone yet so either they are still working on thier rigs (likely) or it just worked first time and no one felt a need to complain (unlikely)
If you are using the secret motor driver chip from Solarotics, you can run 2 motors off of it, not to exceed 600 MA. Mote amps than that and you need a different H-Bridge chip.. Da OLd Man posted one good to 20 Amps..
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Welcome back Weishaupt,
I have been testing your program on the computer Im going to use for my mame machine, I have been experiencing some erratic behavior, but I probably dont have my config file set up right.
The job that pays me to be there has required that I be there, so I havent had much time to play around with it.
I was waiting until I can confirm what Im doing before I emailed you.
Actually, the H drive I built is the same as the one Koz319 did for his project, and the maximum on it is 5 amps.
(better make sure you use heatsinks on the power transistors if you push it that high).
Unless you are talking about my relay drive, it is good for as many amps as the relays you use are rated for.
Speed control is impossible for a relay drive though. (Or at least very impracticable.)
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haven't gotten any feedback from anyone yet so either they are still working on thier rigs (likely)
Bingo.. I'm wired up and ready to go, just need to give the bezel a few more coats of paint and complete the mount before I give 'er a go. Work has moved to overtime, so progress on the cab takes backseat again :-\ I'm wired according to pulse modulation, so we'll see how that plays out. I'm thinking I will also a wire some emergency shutoff switch until I trust the rig, wiring, and config.
Still looking forward to turning it on.. sorry I've given no feedback thus far. Instructionally, your pdf rules if that helps any :laugh:
-csa
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Welcome back Weishaupt,
I have been testing your program on the computer Im going to use for my mame machine, I have been experiencing some erratic behavior, but I probably dont have my config file set up right.
The job that pays me to be there has required that I be there, so I havent had much time to play around with it.
I was waiting until I can confirm what Im doing before I emailed you.
Actually, the H drive I built is the same as the one Koz319 did for his project, and the maximum on it is 5 amps.
(better make sure you use heatsinks on the power transistors if you push it that high).
Unless you are talking about my relay drive, it is good for as many amps as the relays you use are rated for.
Speed control is impossible for a relay drive though. (Or at least very impracticable.)
No Hurry... You may want to send me an email with your config and tell me what you are seeing. My rig is breadboarded so I can switch it around to match to a certain degree.. Its entriely possible that my program is not functioning like I think it should, which is why i needed guinea pigs, wait, I mean beta testers..
My job has also picked up a bit and I having less time to fool with this stuff, but I will make and effort if I know folks are having problems..
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haven't gotten any feedback from anyone yet so either they are still working on thier rigs (likely)
Bingo.. I'm wired up and ready to go, just need to give the bezel a few more coats of paint and complete the mount before I give 'er a go. Work has moved to overtime, so progress on the cab takes backseat again :-\ I'm wired according to pulse modulation, so we'll see how that plays out. I'm thinking I will also a wire some emergency shutoff switch until I trust the rig, wiring, and config.
Still looking forward to turning it on.. sorry I've given no feedback thus far. Instructionally, your pdf rules if that helps any :laugh:
-csa
My only concern is the PMW isn't completely smooth yet. I wanted to return to the code and ifgure how to up the prioirty of the thread, but haven't done so yet. Otherwise I THINK it should work. Mine works strobing the regular inputs and not the enable. The enable SHOULD work though, but my test here was pretty cursory.
FOr the intial tests you might just make the timout very short. The program will put the motor into "brake mode" when it reaches the timeout-- no matter what switches are pressed. or you can put a switch on the enable lead. If that is low, the chip is off and the motor won't respond to anything the PC tells it to do.
Don't worry about trying to get it tested quickly.. it happens when it happens, just as its going to get fixed when it gets fixed when/if its broke... :>)
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Don't worry ....., its going to get fixed when it gets fixed ...
I bet you wont tell your wife that! :laugh2:
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Don't worry ....., its going to get fixed when it gets fixed ...
I bet you wont tell your wife that! :laugh2:
Probably not. But since I have reached the stage of life where I am contemplating getting fixed myself, I am not sure it matters ..... ;D
Seriously though, if someone encountered a problem with the plugin I would do my best to get some time and fix it...
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So I am getting ready to balance my monitor. I just wanted to verify that a magnet won't affect an LCD monitor right?
Thanks...
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So I am getting ready to balance my monitor. I just wanted to verify that a magnet won't affect an LCD monitor right?
Thanks...
From my understanding, magnets do not affect LCD screens. This is not true for CRTs.
-csa
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So I am starting over too. The lazy suzan idea would be great for a manual rotation. But too much friction for a motor. So I bought some bearings and I am going to follow csa3d's design this weekend. Wish me luck....
Southpaw
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:'(
So, NO lazy susans. Skate bearings, most likely. Wheel bearings, yet another option..
Anyway, good luck with the project! Hope the skate bearings work !
:cheers:
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So I am starting over too. The lazy suzan idea would be great for a manual rotation. But too much friction for a motor. So I bought some bearings and I am going to follow csa3d's design this weekend. Wish me luck....
Southpaw
If I was doing it over again Southpaw, I'd consider a thicker piece of wood then 3/4" thickness, and use a longer bolt. The extra length of the rod (I think) will help minimize tilting of the spinning disk due to a small fulcrum.
Do document, and good luck!
-csa
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I was thinking about using 2 bearings with 2.5 inches of wood between them. I bought a 3,4, and 5" bolt to see that works best. Wish me luck....
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:'(
So, NO lazy susans. Skate bearings, most likely. Wheel bearings, yet another option..
Well, I think Javery is still in the running to test out his 3" bearing. Hurry it up all ready! ;D
-csa
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Yeah! ;D
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I'm hoping the manufacturer centered the mount with the screen and not with the entire unit or else it won't line up properly when vertical....
You might hope that, but sadly they probably did not.. I had to offset mine because the Mount was about 3/4 inch off center vertically (in a 4x3 position) Of course, I didn't figure that out till I put it behind my carefully masked and painted bezel...
I think I would make my monitor side mount out of 3/4 ijnch MDF, and inset the M4 screws so they were flush with the wood, and mount the monitor. I would then mount my lazy susan bearing to the Cabinet side of the mount. Drill one hole through the cabinet side mount so you can screw the monitor side mount in by rotating it to each new screw position. Do that you should be able able to deal with any offset the monitor folks decided to throw at you, even if it isn't the thinest thing in the world.
:cheers:
Another thing I ran into while mounting my monitor in the cab, was wanting to have minor angle adjustments also. I very carefully marked the sides of the cab for angle and level, and mounted the cross brace. When I got the inner and outer bezels in place, I found that something torqued just slight enough to make those bezels rub together. With a 22" disk, an angle being off by even 1/8" causes the edges to be off by even more. Doing my mount over, I'd also consider side to side adjustment, height adjustment, and angle adjustment in the mounting rig itself.
The things you learn from trying.. I'm pretty sure it's what makes this hobby so damn additing!
-csa
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Thanks...back to the lazy suzan, I think it would probably work in a cocktail machine. All the friction is encountered when putting it at an angle...
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[Another thing I ran into while mounting my monitor in the cab, was wanting to have minor angle adjustments also. I very carefully marked the sides of the cab for angle and level, and mounted the cross brace. When I got the inner and outer bezels in place, I found that something torqued just slight enough to make those bezels rub together. With a 22" disk, an angle being off by even 1/8" causes the edges to be off by even more. Doing my mount over, I'd also consider side to side adjustment, height adjustment, and angle adjustment in the mounting rig itself.
The things you learn from trying.. I'm pretty sure it's what makes this hobby so damn additing!
-csa
I let Gravity do my leveling for me..I took the entire assembly, and placed it on some 1/8 inch felt pads, so it would sit CLOSE but not ON the plexi bezel. Once i had it resting on my plexi bezel, and got under it to make sure it was centered vertically in the right spot (horizonal centering occured natually because its in the center of the mount...) I merely marked the locations on the sides of the cabinet where the mounts should go (in my case it was just a 2x4) and then fastened the mount at the right angle using screws drilled form the outside of the cabinet. You could also use l rackets etc, but I found that I only had to so this once, and adjustments were not required..
If you mount has more "play" in it and the angle will change as its moved to differen angles this method might not work, or you might use 3/8 inch pads and move the monirot back just a bit..
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:'(
So, NO lazy susans. Skate bearings, most likely. Wheel bearings, yet another option..
Well, I think Javery is still in the running to test out his 3" bearing. Hurry it up all ready! ;D
-csa
I'm hoping to have some time in a week or so. I've been on kid duty all weekend every weekend for the last few months since the wife is working like crazy. Tax season is almost over though so I should be able to squeeze some arcade time in soon... :cheers:
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Just a couple things. The pizza pan seems a little thin so I am going to reinforce it with a steel plate. Also, my monitor has two hook-ups d-sub and dvi-d. Since I am also going to buy a new video card soon, which hook-up is better with Mame...
Thanks,
Southpaw
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Just a couple things. The pizza pan seems a little thin so I am going to reinforce it with a steel plate. Also, my monitor has two hook-ups d-sub and dvi-d. Since I am also going to buy a new video card soon, which hook-up is better with Mame...
Thanks,
Southpaw
If you got a flimsy pan, then sure, reinforce it. The one I bought is rock solid, and I never once felt it was going to bend. Go with dvi-d. I'm not a fan of fuzzy, or I would have used a TV instead of an lcd.
-csa
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I got the same pan. It just feels flimsy to me because it is aluminum. But, I have been known to overdo things...
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I got the same pan. It just feels flimsy to me because it is aluminum. But, I have been known to overdo things...
I am sure you could bend it if you try. Its sturdy enough I think, it just needs to make constant contact with the motor... Sturider usually means more wieght which means larger motor, more momentum etc, etc....
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Well the plate and pan together is still less the a peice of wood and the lazy suzan. I think the secret will be to get it balanced. If this doesn't work for me, I am going to use it as a manual rotation that snaps into position with magnets. Wait a minute, what about an electro-magnet solution??? Way beyond my skill....
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Ok, the initial building is going fine. I am running into problems with the power. I am sure 5v will be too much for me. I know I can get 5v and 12v out of my computer plug, but how do I take it down to 1v or 2v or even lower? I tried a 1.5v battery and was very happy with the results. I think I can use a resistor, but which one or is there another way? How about a speed controller than runs on some type of variable adjustment. Please help, this is where I am limited....I actually want it to run pretty slow so that it doesn't bounce off the switches....
Thanks,
Southpaw
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Well the plate and pan together is still less the a peice of wood and the lazy suzan. I think the secret will be to get it balanced. If this doesn't work for me, I am going to use it as a manual rotation that snaps into position with magnets. Wait a minute, what about an electro-magnet solution??? Way beyond my skill....
If you are using the Secret Motor Driver, you should note that the driver chip requires 5v to operate. You might want to wire up your setup using pulse modulation (advanced setup #2) and see if you can slow down the rotation that way. I'm not super sure on what would be required to slow down the motor, but I'd imagine it would be some sort of resistors in line with the motor.
-csa
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I am going to get this set-up working on a switch first. No secret motor driver yet. I am just looking to reduce the voltage to get this set up to work.
Thanks,
Southpaw
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Ok, the initial building is going fine. I am running into problems with the power. I am sure 5v will be too much for me. I know I can get 5v and 12v out of my computer plug, but how do I take it down to 1v or 2v or even lower? I tried a 1.5v battery and was very happy with the results. I think I can use a resistor, but which one or is there another way? How about a speed controller than runs on some type of variable adjustment. Please help, this is where I am limited....I actually want it to run pretty slow so that it doesn't bounce off the switches....
Thanks,
Southpaw
USE Pulse Width Modulation to turn the motor on and off rapidly. You won't be able to get a reliable result from a resitor without building a Transistor based feedback circuit. If you insist on doing it in hardware use a 555 timer circuit (there are dozens of examples on the net) but otherwise you are better off doing it in Software using my (or someone elses) program.
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Or you could just buy a variable voltage transformer, something like this: http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=96864&doy=14m4&C=SO&U=strat15
Should work just fine (I'm using one at the moment on mine running 4.5V to the motor, works nicely on 3V also..)
hope this helps :)
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Yes, I got the same idea at Radio Shack...Now I just need to test it....
Thanks...