The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Forum/Website Discussion => Topic started by: Malenko on February 06, 2015, 04:04:56 pm
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Its no secret that PL1 is a terrible moderator, are we allowed to complain in public about them? At one time the mods here were awesome and no one really had a reason to complain, but times have changed.
I was always told if you dont complain no one will know that anything is wrong, so this is me letting Saint know publicly SOMETHING IS WRONG.
I MUST STRESS THIS:
I DONT WANT TO REPLACE PL1 AS A MOD!!!!!!! I Just want him replaced in general. I for one don't like getting passive aggressive PMs from moderators letting me know they can ban me and weak excuses for back tracking.
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I was always told if you dont complain no one will no that anything is wrong
:whap
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My already abysmal typing gets worse when irritated. Typo corrected. Or am I supposed to put [redacted] no is now know?
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I would like to submit a formal complaint as well. PL1 threatened to ban me for having a difference of opinion.
Thread here:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,143284.0/all.html (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,143284.0/all.html)
Yet, if I'm reading Saint's thoughts on the matter correctly...
Careful digitalmonkeyman, the last member who vocalized his displeasure with GGG wound up with a temporary ban...
No one is banned for expressing their opinion of a vendor good, bad, or indifferent. Bans here are few and only for violating the rules. Airing a dispute with a vendor for the benefit of other potential customers is not a violation of the rules.
...no harm, no foul.
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I MUST STRESS THIS:
I DONT WANT TO REPLACE PL1 AS A MOD!!!!!!! I Just want him replaced in general. I for one don't like getting passive aggressive PMs from moderators letting me know they can ban me and weak excuses for back tracking.
Well that ain't cool. It's just as bad as another mod specifically going through his own posts and moving them around the forum ad hoc.
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Malenko
oh my god....
wtf are u talking about ?
so u got pissie with a mod ?
and now want them reduced ?
grow a set of nut's and explain your self in clear txt.
if u sent the boss a letter then sat back and turned the time clock on for a reply.?
man u have problem's, these issuie's get dealt in there proper time..
and place.. if the boss did not answer u? I would look up his personal problem's
post's and WHAT HE STATED AS TO WHAT HE WAS GOING TO DO
about that simple...
so in short sit down and WORK IT OUT...
ed
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(http://i.imgur.com/pYwq0OG.jpg)
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Malenko
oh my god....
wtf are u talking about ?
so u got pissie with a mod ?
and now want them reduced ?
grow a set of nut's and explain your self in clear txt.
if u sent the boss a letter then sat back and turned the time clock on for a reply.?
man u have problem's, these issuie's get dealt in there proper time..
and place.. if the boss did not answer u? I would look up his personal problem's
post's and WHAT HE STATED AS TO WHAT HE WAS GOING TO DO
about that simple...
so in short sit down and WORK IT OUT...
ed
Kind of sounds like a drug addicted mother in denial about her child's accusations of being molested by a family member...
Malenko's been around for a long time. Have you ever seen him post something like this? I haven't. And he's not the only one with a complaint. I mean, I don't agree with the way Delusional mods the place, but I don't have any complaints about him like I do PL1.
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Malenko
oh my god....
wtf are u talking about ?
so u got pissie with a mod ?
and now want them reduced ?
grow a set of nut's and explain your self in clear txt.
if u sent the boss a letter then sat back and turned the time clock on for a reply.?
man u have problem's, these issuie's get dealt in there proper time..
and place.. if the boss did not answer u? I would look up his personal problem's
post's and WHAT HE STATED AS TO WHAT HE WAS GOING TO DO
about that simple...
so in short sit down and WORK IT OUT...
ed
ed,
I am posting in the correct section of the forum to air my complaint about a moderator. Its not a one time thing, he has been persistently bad at his new found moderator title and Im not the only one who feels this way. As for having testicular fortitude ; I think posting what I did is a clear indicator I am not afraid to speak my mind. Any attempts to try and "work it out" just result in lame jokes, ban threats, and other PMs telling me I'm not a moderator and to just suck it up. Judging by your posting style I assume English is not your first language but I do I hope I got the gist of your thoughts and retorted accordingly.
If this wont suffice, just let me know bucko!
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:-\ edited: for fear of the moderator wrath here.
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:-\ edited: for fear of the moderator wrath here.
If you've got a concern, express it. Problems can't be fixed if they're not addressed...
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I mean, I appreciate what PL1 has done with the wiki...but what I don't get is how he was made a mod after only being here for < 3 years, with very little in project contributions, or any other notable contribution to members or their project builds. Is it only to give him wiki editing access?
Normally I wouldn't care much about this, but when it comes to someone who has become a moderator, swinging their mod penises around, that's when it really chaffs ---my bottom---.
And to do it to a forum-veteran, who's been here for a MUCH longer time than most, contributed a ton of his arcade experiences and advice to forum members, and IMO is generally an all-around cool guy, something is seriously amiss.
I mean, c'mon, that ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- is unnecessary. You don't see guys like Haruman acting out like this. yeah he and Rick get into a bit, but it's all in good competitive vendor fun. In this case, Mal definitely has hard feelings meaning that PL1 went over "the line". Obviously I don't know all sides of the story, but the fact that he's in the spotlight here means something is not right.
IMO, PL1 owes Malenko an apology, or bust.
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Malenko
no bucko I am just fine..thk-u very much for asking..
as for pl1 100% of my convo's with the mod have been 100% right
both way's. hence get a set of nut's chat him or at least try
ENGLISH ENOUGH FOR U GOD ????
ed
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Jesus Ed. Malenko is trying to have a dialog and while it's great you're in here fighting PL1s fights like a big brother he's nowhere to be found so if we are tallying nutsacks around here...not sayin but I'm just sayin.
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Le Chuck
I know I know
just saying my mind...
never had a problem with pl1 ever
mind u it did take a pm or so.. but wtf it worked out.
so my point is maybe the mod has had a very bad home day ? and want's some
time off ? who knows but the mod in question ?
just saying get off of the high horse and cut some grass..
please remember SAINT lost the 1 of his own soul and left the chain of command
to the mod's to run the site....
ed
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nut's is possessive meaning the nut owns something
nuts is the plural of nut, meaning more than one.
While I think its great you keep calling me a ---Bad words, bad words, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when saint censors you?---, you seem to fail to realize I tried to take it to PMs with him and it didn't work out. So by your words "I Nut's upped" merp.
It is fantastic that you've had "100% right conversations" with him, but as you can see by the tone of the thread, its not always the case and seems to be the exception and not the rule.
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Malenko
no I never called u a ---Bad words, bad words, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when saint censors you?---
I stated get a set of nut's
btw when u speak to a man and they tell u get a set of nut's.
they mean be a MAN suck it up
but no reply from the mod mean's your post hit home?
or pl1 is away?
but to post in open forum ?
so without knowing any of your complaint's ? how is 1
to ascertain the info that has pissed u off so much ?
rem 1 thing a MASK is only good for so long
ed
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I find it curious that this thread apparently is not being moderated by anyone.
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I find it curious that this thread apparently is not being moderated by anyone.
Sometimes, it's good just to get this stuff out in the open. Clear the air, get rid of some bad blood, so to speak. I don't think anything being stated hasn't been backed up by example. :dunno
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I haven't been active here over the last week so I'm not sure what caused this issue. I'll say that length of tenure here shouldn't dictate who should help moderate the boards. And the skill set necessary to complete a project has nothing to do with a skill set to moderate a bunch of dorks like us.
I will admit that this group of mods has had some behaviors that the previous set didn't. Not a judgement. Just an observation. With any change in the daily moderation of the board, there are going to be adjustments. Heck, Saint's not nearly as active here in the last couple of years as he had been before that. Life gets in the way sometimes. To that note, this place is not nearly as busy as it was 5-10 years ago. Less crap to have to moderate most of the time now.
I will say if an attempt to clear the air on this was sent via PM and it couldn't be resolved and Saint was contacted via PM about it, then this thread makes sense. If that wasn't attempted first, I'd give Saint and PL1 the courtesy of doing that before this thread breaks down to the nonsense that we are all capable of.
Hoopz - the voice of reason 2015
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Ain't no meeting like a chatroom meeting.
(http://cdn.geekwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/nerd-bigstock_Extreme_Computer_Nerd_1520708.jpg)
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Sorry it took so long on this post, but I wanted to seriously research and reply to the concerns and allegations posted here.
Malenko and Nephasth are both valued and respected members of the BYOAC community.
I hold no grudge against them or anyone else.
I understand that Malenko and Neph feel that I have wronged them.
Have I made mistakes? Yes, but some of the accusations made in this thread are definitely over the line.
I tried to explain and work things out via PM, but that didn't settle our differences.
Everyone please stick to facts and don't let this disagreement cause needless drama.
If I'm to be tried in the court of public opinion, can we at least have order in the court and specific evidence presented instead of a witch hunt?
(Cue someone saying, "He turned me into a newt." "A Newt?" "I got better." :lol)
In the interest of transparency, I give permission to Malenko and Neph to post any related material from my PMs that they think makes their case.
I for one don't like getting passive aggressive PMs from moderators letting me know they can ban me
I reviewed all my PMs sent to Malenko and found that the first mention of bans was made by him on September 29, 2014, 09:35:26 pm. (I'll post the text of the PM for context if Malenko grants permission)
My reply on September 30, 2014, 01:32:20 am was
I won't ban you for the same reason I didn't close your mod report.
It is still open, and the only comment is from me, "Guys, please let me know if I'm out of line on this one. Thanks. -- Scott".
If Saint and the mods think I'm wrong, I'm willing to accept their judgement. Are you?
Perhaps Malenko was thinking about the post below that Neph is upset about.
My PM to Nephasth yesterday apologizing about that thread is the only other reference to bans I can find in my PMs.
Was there another occasion you were thinking about, Malenko?
PL1 threatened to ban me for having a difference of opinion.
At no time have I ever threatened to ban someone over a difference of opinion.
I strongly support the freedom to express one's opinion.
I don't think it's out-of-line to ask members to keep a civil tone. (see Rule 1 (http://arcadecontrols.com/arcade_message_rules.html))
I think what Neph is referring to is this.
FYI - quickest way to get me to STFU... Don't quote my posts or talk about me.
FYI - there is one quicker way . . . Are you lobbying for the mods to exercise that option? :police:
Keep it on-topic and civil, everyone.
After that post, Neph sent me a PM asking if I was serious.
I didn't want to reply in the heat of the moment and planned to do so later.
Several hours later, Neph appeared to have calmed down.
When I got back to PMs, I was in a hurry and forgot that Neph had asked a question.
I foolishly deleted the message figuring that everything was back to usual. :embarassed:
I didn't realize that he was still mad at me until his "deal breaker" comment here (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,143689.msg1491461.html#msg1491461) in the UCA after action thread.
As mentioned above, my PM to Nephasth yesterday apologizing about that thread is the only other reference to bans I can find in my PMs.
I was surprised by how argumentative you were being in that thread with RandyT and DietCoke.
My post was intended as a "Dude, what are you doing? Cut it out." nudge rather than a serious ban threat.
In retrospect, I really should have phrased the post differently or at least added a "just kidding". :embarassed:
(Contrary to popular belief, the Scott-bot is indeed human.)
The belated explaination and apology was, obviously, not acceptable to Neph.
weak excuses for back tracking.
You called me on my speculation about the timeline of Howard's departure in this (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,141695.msg1466208.html#msg1466208) thread.
We debated several points via PM.
You convinced me on some points and I edited several posts to remove material that was taken in a way that I did not intend. (I stated a correlation, but did NOT intend to imply causation)
You also clarified several of your statements that I misunderstood, which led me to apologize for my misunderstanding.
Are you mad that you convinced me on those points or that I apologized for misunderstanding what you meant originally? :dizzy:
Were you talking about something else?
Any attempts to try and "work it out" just result in lame jokes, ban threats, and other PMs telling me I'm not a moderator and to just suck it up.
Lame jokes -- I plead guilty, Your Honor. :lol Was just trying to lighten the mood and let you know there are no hard feelings.
Ban threats - Addressed above. My ONLY mention of bans in any PM to Malenko is saying that I will NOT ban him.
Not a mod - You pointed that out in a PM on September 29, 2014, 09:35:26 pm
On September 30, 2014, 01:32:20 am, I replied
You may not be a mod, but you have been around long enough to know how this stuff can escalate if it gets personal.
None of us want that kind of scorched earth battle.
Suck it up - There were several instances where I said we'd have to agree to disagree on a matter and that we should abide by Saint's decisions.
If that's not it, perhaps you could post the exact text that you are referring to.
I thought that Malenko and I had worked out our initial misunderstandings and that we were OK.
Everything was cordial when we worked together on his multi-player game list (http://newwiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?title=Multi-Player_Games) for the wiki in late November.
Recently, however, Malenko has made it clear that he doesn't like how I mod and IMHO it has affected his view of everything I say and do on BYOAC.
As a wise man once said, "People who want to be offended will find a way to be offended."
I have been patient with the abuse and insults that Malenko has cast my way (sticks and stones . . .), but it really is getting old.
Should mods be held to a higher standard? YES
Are mods human? YES
Do we make mistakes? All of us do at one time or another.
When we make mistakes, should we try to fix them? YES
Will every matter be fully resolved and world peace be achieved? NO
Do mods have no right to hold an opinion on how to perform their duties? NO
Do mods need to perform their duties in a manner directed by Saint? YES
Has Saint, or any other mod, asked me to change how I perform those duties? Not yet.
Scott
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Eye of toad, pinch of wolfsbane... Oh don't mind Jennifer, I'm just making a love potion for that cute nerd guy. ::)
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Eye of toad, pinch of wolfsbane... Oh don't mind Jennifer, I'm just making a love potion for that cute nerd guy. ::)
LT did say here (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,143706.msg1491753.html#msg1491753) that I need to get out a bit more. :cheers:
Scott
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Eye of toad, pinch of wolfsbane... Oh don't mind Jennifer, I'm just making a love potion for that cute nerd guy. ::)
You... This place... I don't... :dizzy:
There are some interesting folks around here.
PBJ must be hitting the mead again.
All I'll say is that the best moderation happens behind the scenes, and most of the time it should not even be apparent that it's happening. That whole thread should have just been deleted, as it was asking for something against the rules rather than be sanitized. Sending it to PH would have prevented this from blowing up. I saw that [redacted] comment and I thought some fool posted a link. It wasn't until after the fact I realized it was Malenko, and that he actually posted something fairly harmless. The whole thread should have been nuked once the mod thought it was crossing the line instead of drawing attention to it by putting [redacted].
I recently had a situation where I felt overmoderation occurred to me, I requested something be done and it was, and the mod reached out to me via PM and apologized, and I told him we were good, which we are. Nothing public.
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All I'll say is that the best moderation happens behind the scenes, and most of the time it should not even be apparent that it's happening. That whole thread should have just been deleted, as it was asking for something against the rules rather than be sanitized. Sending it to PH would have prevented this from blowing up. I saw that [redacted] comment and I thought some fool posted a link. It wasn't until after the fact I realized it was Malenko, and that he actually posted something fairly harmless. The whole thread should have been nuked once the mod thought it was crossing the line instead of drawing attention to it by putting [redacted].
Message received and moderation approach already adjusted accordingly. (I hope) Thanks for the feedback. :cheers:
In retrospect, PH'ing that thread earlier would have been the better way to go.
Didn't expect the blowback from Malenko over the way I redacted the google keyword recommendation.
(We both agreed in the thread that the keyword recommendation should have been removed, but disagreed on the way it was done.)
I didn't do it that way to be a jerk and no disrespect was intended.
Scott
P.S. Can't believe I missed OP's rule violaton in that PH'd thread. :embarassed:
Going forward, if anyone sees a rule violation like that, please feel free to use the "report to moderator" link. ;D
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Instead of bitching about the mods, we need to help Saint find a new server admin. Woogie's been hit or miss for 6-8 years now. Time to find someone who can handle that side of stuff and get it off Saint's plate.
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Instead of bitching about the mods, we need to help Saint find a new server admin. Woogie's been hit or miss for 6-8 years now. Time to find someone who can handle that side of stuff and get it off Saint's plate.
I could do it, dunno if I want to though.
Over qualified, and under appreciated is a terrible combination.
the rest [redacted]
Airplane Snore (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCeY7vTY13k#)
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PL1 threatened to ban me for having a difference of opinion.
At no time have I ever threatened to ban someone over a difference of opinion.
I strongly support the freedom to express one's opinion.
I don't think it's out-of-line to ask members to keep a civil tone. (see Rule 1 (http://arcadecontrols.com/arcade_message_rules.html))
Rule 1 makes no mention of "tone". Tone cannot be accurately conveyed in text type. The tone is all in your head, if you read my posts in a negative tone, that's your fault. So if you're now finally saying the ban threat was due to a possible rule breaking, that's ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---.
RULE #1:
Be nice to each other. We're serious about this one. Disagree, debate, argue at will - but please be respectful. Messages that are flame-bait, hateful, racist, or otherwise pointlessly antagonistic will likely be sent to post-hell, and repeat offenders banned from posting.
I was being respectful in that thread. I did not mention Randy's competitor by name, I did not post any competing products in his thread. I did not post anything hateful, racist, or pointlessly antagonistic. When misinformation started to get posted, I made an attempt to correct it. Yes, Randy has fanbois, but what I was suggesting was in no way out of line. And some people apparently don't want to read threads older than their membership here...
I think what Neph is referring to is this.
FYI - quickest way to get me to STFU... Don't quote my posts or talk about me.
FYI - there is one quicker way . . . Are you lobbying for the mods to exercise that option? :police:
Keep it on-topic and civil, everyone.
After that post, Neph sent me a PM asking if I was serious.
I didn't want to reply in the heat of the moment and planned to do so later.
Several hours later, Neph appeared to have calmed down.
When I got back to PMs, I was in a hurry and forgot that Neph had asked a question.
I foolishly deleted the message figuring that everything was back to usual. :embarassed:
Yeah, I didn't want misinterpret what you were trying to tell me. But thanks for ignoring it, I love trying to be a mind reader...
I didn't realize that he was still mad at me until his "deal breaker" comment here (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,143689.msg1491461.html#msg1491461) in the UCA after action thread.
As mentioned above, my PM to Nephasth yesterday apologizing about that thread is the only other reference to bans I can find in my PMs.
I was surprised by how argumentative you were being in that thread with RandyT and DietCoke.
My post was intended as a "Dude, what are you doing? Cut it out." nudge rather than a serious ban threat.
In retrospect, I really should have phrased the post differently or at least added a "just kidding". :embarassed:
(Contrary to popular belief, the Scott-bot is indeed human.)
The belated explaination and apology was, obviously, not acceptable to Neph.
No it's not. You should have addressed my original PM while it was relative. Not wait until you catch some heat from some members in another thread you should have Post Hell'd right from the get go. Like yotsuya said, the best modding is done without being noticed. But you did allow that nonsense to continue for far too long before you sent it to Post Hell after being asked to do so by multiple members. Don't get personally/emotionally involved in moderating, do what needs to be done and be done with it.
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Moderating is serious business
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Moderating is serious business
Normally I wouldn't give a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, but the ban threat was uncalled for. Just send my ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- to PH if it's too abrasive.
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Moderating is serious business
Normally I wouldn't give a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, but the ban threat was uncalled for. Just send my ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- to PH if it's too abrasive.
Yeah, I have to agree. When I read that thinly veiled ban threat in the Spectralite thread, I thought it was out of line. it was a conversation between Randy and Neph, and the mod inadvertently made himself a part of it (and took a side) by doing what he did.
Tombo, a mod over a KLOV, doesn't mess around. If a post needs to be cleaned up, he just deletes the whole post. If he needs to make a "stop ---smurfing--- around" post, it's directed to the board. Effective, and it works.
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Tombo, a mod over a KLOV, doesn't mess around. If a post needs to be cleaned up, he just deletes the whole post. If he needs to make a "stop ---smurfing--- around" post, it's directed to the board. Effective, and it works.
I'd give PBJ's left nut to have Tombo be a mod here.
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Thinking about this a little more... I find it strange that Scott saves PMs from malenko from back in September, yet deletes mine from a few weeks ago. BYOAC PM boxes have no limit on the number of PMs saved, so why go back and delete a select few? Need to find a certain PM? BYOAC's search function works mighty fine.
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Tombo over at Klove can moderate, delete posts or eat turds for all that's worth.... First of all that's there not here, And over moderating like that is censorship, Something Saint has never done in the whole time Jennifer has been here.
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Back in the day, when you had to sign up for a cancer forum to back into KLOV, it was a great place to run a search in case a deal felt weird to you. 9 times out of 10 the weirdo couldn't contain themselves and was bragging about some pending deal they had with a sucker. Oops, didn't know pinballjim had an account, did ya? :lol
Don't laugh until you have cash in hand, I always say.
:cheers:
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Tombo over at Klove can moderate, delete posts or eat turds for all that's worth.... First of all that's there not here, And over moderating like that is censorship, Something Saint has never done in the whole time Jennifer has been here.
So what is [redacted]? Undermoderating? It's still "censorship".
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BYOAC has an auto censor. I don't have a problem with it, just sayin'. Censorship is a part of BYOAC.
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BYOAC has an auto censor. I don't have a problem with it, just sayin'. Censorship is a part of BYOAC.
Exactly.
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Im not talking about the basic rules governing the site, auto sensor, politics, yes that something we all have to live with. What Jenn is talking about is mods that troll their victims in, not agreeing with their point of view on a given subject, Then being the Super Mod that they are shutting the whole thing down because they can. ultimately censoring the viewpoint. .... This thread however has not fallen to that level yet, Therefore credit is due. ( +1 PL1).
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Im not talking about the basic rules governing the site, auto sensor, politics, yes that something we all have to live with. What Jenn is talking about is mods that troll their victims in, not agreeing with their point of view on a given subject, Then being the Super Mod that they are shutting the whole thing down because they can. ultimately censoring the viewpoint. .... This thread however has not fallen to that level yet, Therefore credit is due. ( +1 PL1).
Yeah, I think you are misunderstanding how we're saying it should work. If there was something wrong with the post (or in this case, a thread asking for something Saint has specifically prohibited), it should be deleted. No point in trying to be cute about [redacting] information or anything like that.
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I haven't been active here over the last week so I'm not sure what caused this issue. I'll say that length of tenure here shouldn't dictate who should help moderate the boards. And the skill set necessary to complete a project has nothing to do with a skill set to moderate a bunch of dorks like us.
I don't think I could disagree more. Tenure typically brings with a sense of knowing other members and having projects means your an active member of the boards. Im not sure the prerequisite for being a moderator should read like this " New member who contributes nothing". Yes Scott runs the wiki, I think that should be his full time job. Just to note, I did try to work on the wiki and the first thing that happened was, the pages I made were removed, all the data I researched was then added to a new page by the scottbot. So, yeah, I dont bother anymore.
Tombo over at Klove can moderate, delete posts or eat turds for all that's worth.... First of all that's there not here, And over moderating like that is censorship, Something Saint has never done in the whole time Jennifer has been here.
Over moderation? Deleting posts and threads occurs here (via both deletion and moving items to post hell). I know that here is not there, but a good moderator is a good moderator. And honestly, KLOV is the closest thing out there to BYOAC that I know of.
Im not talking about the basic rules governing the site, auto sensor, politics, yes that something we all have to live with. What Jenn is talking about is mods that troll their victims in, not agreeing with their point of view on a given subject, Then being the Super Mod that they are shutting the whole thing down because they can. ultimately censoring the viewpoint. .... This thread however has not fallen to that level yet, Therefore credit is due. ( +1 PL1).
You do realize that PL1s actions are what caused me start this thread in the first place, right? Tombo remains neutral, keeps members in line, and is pretty much universally liked at KLOV (-1 PL1, +1 Tombo)
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I would wonder how Tomboy would react to a "Hey D/bag!" Thread But since this is not my fight I will go back to painting my toes.... **sidenote** Nice try Yotsuya. :applaud:
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I would wonder how Tomboy would react to a "Hey D/bag!" Thread But since this is not my fight I will go back to painting my toes.... **sidenote** Nice try Yotsuya. :applaud:
What the hell are you talking about?
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(http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Michael-Jacksons-Thriller-Popcorn-Gif.gif)
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I would wonder how Tomboy would react to a "Hey D/bag!" Thread But since this is not my fight I will go back to painting my toes.... **sidenote** Nice try Yotsuya. :applaud:
What the hell are you talking about?
Let me spell it out real slow for you then.... I will NOT be your victim here.
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I haven't been active here over the last week so I'm not sure what caused this issue. I'll say that length of tenure here shouldn't dictate who should help moderate the boards. And the skill set necessary to complete a project has nothing to do with a skill set to moderate a bunch of dorks like us.
I don't think I could disagree more. Tenure typically brings with a sense of knowing other members and having projects means your an active member of the boards. Im not sure the prerequisite for being a moderator should read like this " New member who contributes nothing". Yes Scott runs the wiki, I think that should be his full time job. Just to note, I did try to work on the wiki and the first thing that happened was, the pages I made were removed, all the data I researched was then added to a new page by the scottbot. So, yeah, I dont bother anymore.
You want PBJ or CT as mods? X2? Tenure and projects alone should not be the qualifications for running this place.
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I would wonder how Tomboy would react to a "Hey D/bag!" Thread But since this is not my fight I will go back to painting my toes.... **sidenote** Nice try Yotsuya. :applaud:
What the hell are you talking about?
Let me spell it out real slow for you then.... I will NOT be your victim here.
I'm trying to explain to you how the moderation at KLOV works. No one wants you to be a "victim". Maybe the fumes from your nail polish are clouding your reading comprehension.
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I would wonder how Tomboy would react to a "Hey D/bag!" Thread But since this is not my fight I will go back to painting my toes.... **sidenote** Nice try Yotsuya. :applaud:
What the hell are you talking about?
Let me spell it out real slow for you then.... I will NOT be your victim here.
I'm trying to explain to you how the moderation at KLOV works. No one wants you to be a "victim". Maybe the fumes from your nail polish are clouding your judgment.
Ignore the troll.
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I haven't been active here over the last week so I'm not sure what caused this issue. I'll say that length of tenure here shouldn't dictate who should help moderate the boards. And the skill set necessary to complete a project has nothing to do with a skill set to moderate a bunch of dorks like us.
I don't think I could disagree more. Tenure typically brings with a sense of knowing other members and having projects means your an active member of the boards. Im not sure the prerequisite for being a moderator should read like this " New member who contributes nothing". Yes Scott runs the wiki, I think that should be his full time job. Just to note, I did try to work on the wiki and the first thing that happened was, the pages I made were removed, all the data I researched was then added to a new page by the scottbot. So, yeah, I dont bother anymore.
You want PBJ or CT as mods? X2? Tenure and projects alone should not be the qualifications for running this place.
PBJ is a newb. Just try to find a post of his from over 2 years ago. :D
Jennifer, get back on yer meds...
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I would wonder how Tomboy would react to a "Hey D/bag!" Thread But since this is not my fight I will go back to painting my toes.... **sidenote** Nice try Yotsuya. :applaud:
What the hell are you talking about?
Let me spell it out real slow for you then.... I will NOT be your victim here.
I'm trying to explain to you how the moderation at KLOV works. No one wants you to be a "victim". Maybe the fumes from your nail polish are clouding your judgment.
Ignore the troll.
Yeah, maybe it's best that I do, Hoopz. :cheers:
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PBJ is a newb. Just try to find a post of his from over 2 years ago. :D
I actually laughed aloud on that one. :cheers:
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Put your ears close to Jennifer honey.... I am not a troll!
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Put your ears close to Jennifer honey.... I am not a troll!
:pics
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You want PBJ or CT as mods? X2? Tenure and projects alone should not be the qualifications for running this place.
Qualification does not equal prerequisite, never stated they should be the only factors in deciding a moderator. Stop being a troublemaker :p
I'm saying I don't think anyone should be a mod if they haven't been here for at least 5 years and had some kinda project. I think its a nice baseline. Hundreds of members here meet such a low standard but Scott is not one of them, he hasn't even been here 4 years yet and I'm not aware of any builds or projects of his. X2 doesn't meet the criteria either, having a picture on CrapMAME isn't the same as a project thread here.
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I think X2's new avatar is supposed to show him toe stomping someone but it looks like he has boobs.
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Are boobs are moderating prerequisite?
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Are boobs are moderating prerequisite?
Vigo would make a good mod. Present grammar excluded.
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PBJ is a newb. Just try to find a post of his from over 2 years ago. :D
I actually laughed aloud on that one. :cheers:
And yet he already has more posts than me in the short time since he was resurrected.
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Off topic, wasn't X2 going through some kind of bout of extreme illness combined with homelessness or something? I don't particularly like the guy but I do hope he's not like dead under a bridge somewhere.
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He's back. I'm more concerned about HC.
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He's back. I'm more concerned about HC.
HC is back on youtube
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What about Chaddles? He hasn't logged in since Thanksgiving.
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What about Chaddles? He hasn't logged in since Thanksgiving.
blizzard
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What about Chaddles? He hasn't logged in since Thanksgiving.
Oh great. You had to ask that and it's really going to set Malenko off.
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Can we get a mod in here to clean up all these OT posts? >:D
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Oh great. You had to ask that and it's really going to set Malenko off.
Chaddles is no Genesim.
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Oh great. You had to ask that and it's really going to set Malenko off.
Chaddles is no Genesim.
I miss his angry rants about monitors. Those were the good old days. And he hates the "uniformed". That's the cause of Rule 11.
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I miss his angry rants about monitors. Those were the good old days. And he hates the "uniformed". That's the cause of Rule 11.
He's the only person I ever purposely antagonized, so much fun. Good times. :cheers:
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Are boobs are moderating prerequisite?
Vigo would make a good mod. Present grammar excluded.
:cheers: Thanks for the props. Although, I don't mind finding an avatar with boobs on it.
(http://img.costumepedia.com/1/438/a-sexy-ghostbusters-costume.jpg)
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So where is shmokes these days?
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According to the sites rules (go reread your pamphlet) trolling and flaming will not be tolerated. So what are you going to do, ban Jennifer?
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RE: Yotsuya...According to the sites rules (go reread your pamphlet) trolling and flaming will not be tolerated. So what are you going to do, ban Jennifer?.....Go ahead you miserable puke, delete my account.
Best wishes, Jennifer
Way to go on the hypocrisy Jen... Name calling is against the rules. Maybe you're reading the wrong pamphlet...
Don't get the angst against yots right now...
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Don't get the angst against yots right now...
me either.
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.
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RE: Yotsuya...According to the sites rules (go reread your pamphlet) trolling and flaming will not be tolerated. So what are you going to do, ban Jennifer?.....Go ahead you miserable puke, delete my account.
Best wishes, Jennifer
Lady, I don't know who you are or what your problem is, but last I remember, we were trying to have a discussion about moderation, you said Tombo could "eat turds", I tried to clarify it was the style of moderation we were discussing, you accused me of trying to make you a victim (whatever that means), HOOPZ called you a troll, I laughed, we even moved on from talking about you, and now you called me a "miserable puke". So somewhere in there, your buttons got pushed (by me, apparently, though I'm not sure where that happened). Are you, by your last sentence, admitting that Hoopz was right and that you were trolling? :dizzy:
I'm not a mod, so I can't ban you (not that I would anyway, I have pretty thick skin). But I can suggest you get checked out for Dissociative Identity Disorder, which probably has something to do with you constantly referring to yourself in third person. Oh, and don't call people "miserable puke". That's such a weak putdown, it's not even worth reporting.
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I'm still waiting on Malenko to reply to my earlier challenge to present the evidence of "passive aggressive PMs from moderators letting me know they can ban me ". (see section 2 of my response here (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,143782.msg1492801.html#msg1492801))
As I said before, you have my permission to release any text from any PM that you think supports your case.
I doubt that you'd delete a PM that contained that type of abusive moderator behavior.
Did you ever forward the alleged PM to Saint so he would know how I was treating people?
The reason you didn't forward it to Saint and haven't posted the PM here is because it does not exist.
You made the accusation so the burden of proof is on you.
If JoeTheNoob posted a public accusation like this against Mod-X, everyone would expect Joe to provide evidence.
I agree that long-time members deserve more benefit of the doubt than JoeTheNoob, but when serious accusations like this are made publicly, shouldn't the accused (and the people who read the accusation) have the right to see the alleged evidence?
Doesn't the accused deserve some benefit of the doubt? (innocent until proven guilty, etc.)
If you mis-remembered, I will accept gladly accept your apology on this particular point. (I'm not the type to hold a grudge. ;D)
If you deliberately lied about me ban-threatening you via PM, it raises very serious questions about why you would do that and whether your emotions may be clouding your judgement.
Where I have been wrong, I have admitted my errors and tried to make ammends.
I hope that this thread can be a way to improve moderation practices and warn future mods about potential pitfalls, not just fling mud.
Scott
P.S. Sorry I have been so slow in responding in this thread. I've been really busy lately.
I will try to address all serious concerns mentioned in the thread, but please pardon me if I take time to choose my words carefullly.
If anyone has a related matter that you would like addressed, please let me or one of the other mods know.
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This thread should probably be locked and sent to Post Hell. :cheers:
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I'm still waiting on Malenko to reply to my earlier challenge to present the evidence of "passive aggressive PMs from moderators letting me know they can ban me ". (see section 2 of my response here (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,143782.msg1492801.html#msg1492801))
As I said before, you have my permission to release any text from any PM that you think supports your case.
I doubt that you'd delete a PM that contained that type of abusive moderator behavior.
Did you ever forward the alleged PM to Saint so he would know how I was treating people?
The reason you didn't forward it to Saint and haven't posted the PM here is because it does not exist.
You made the accusation so the burden of proof is on you.
If JoeTheNoob posted a public accusation like this against Mod-X, everyone would expect Joe to provide evidence.
I agree that long-time members deserve more benefit of the doubt than JoeTheNoob, but when serious accusations like this are made publicly, shouldn't the accused (and the people who read the accusation) have the right to see the alleged evidence?
Doesn't the accused deserve some benefit of the doubt? (innocent until proven guilty, etc.)
If you mis-remembered, I will accept gladly accept your apology on this particular point. (I'm not the type to hold a grudge. ;D)
If you deliberately lied about me ban-threatening you via PM, it raises very serious questions about why you would do that and whether your emotions may be clouding your judgement.
Where I have been wrong, I have admitted my errors and tried to make ammends.
I hope that this thread can be a way to improve moderation practices and warn future mods about potential pitfalls, not just fling mud.
Scott
P.S. Sorry I have been so slow in responding in this thread. I've been really busy lately.
I will try to address all serious concerns mentioned in the thread, but please pardon me if I take time to choose my words carefullly.
If anyone has a related matter that you would like addressed, please let me or one of the other mods know.
This post seems pointlessly antagonistic... A mod publically "challenging" a member. WTF... These posts aren't winning you any points with me, which is in part why I don't believe your apologies are sincere.
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Agreed. I get where Scott is coming from, but challenging a member isn't problem solving. The posts might not quite make sense out of context anyway.
Let me just propose an gentleman's agreement here. No apologies owed on either side, but Mal, Neph and Scott, how about you all agree to turn the page on this and just handle things differently going forward. Scott, if you need to moderate Mal or Neph, simply do your edit to their post without any public commentary. Then, do a PM to that them and show the original post in quotes, then cite the rule violation as documentation. No other comments on the PM. Malenko and Neph, just agree to keep things cool as long as things are fair. If there is still an issue, it can be addressed at a later point when there is going to be a full documentation trail of what posts looked like before and after.
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I don't need a a PM telling me I had a post sent to PH. Every time I drink a forty, a dump a little out for all those lost souls in Post Hell. :cheers:
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Agreed. I get where Scott is coming from, but challenging a member isn't problem solving. The posts might not quite make sense out of context anyway.
Let me just propose an gentleman's agreement here. No apologies owed on either side, but Mal, Neph and Scott, how about you all agree to turn the page on this and just handle things differently going forward. Scott, if you need to moderate Mal or Neph, simply do your edit to their post without any public commentary. Then, do a PM to that them and show the original post in quotes, then cite the rule violation as documentation. No other comments on the PM. Malenko and Neph, just agree to keep things cool as long as things are fair. If there is still an issue, it can be addressed at a later point when there is going to be a full documentation trail of what posts looked like before and after.
It takes a Carpathian.... :cheers:
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I'm still waiting on Malenko to reply to my earlier challenge to present the evidence of "passive aggressive PMs from moderators letting me know they can ban me ".
I never said you threatened to ban me in particular, just that you have in fact done it (and admitted to it no less!). I wasn't aware I was not allowed to complain about what you do if it was not directed at me. You basically said you could shut Neph up by banning him. That's not something you joke about, more over you are the one that posted the quote, so you cant say I altered it or took it out of context. Compounding that is the fact you were "so angry" you couldn't PM back "no I wasnt really going to ban you" (or something of that ilk) isnt helping your case. As for keeping PMs, I only keep the funny ones so you'll never have to worry about me keeping yours.
If your defense for threatening to ban Neph (even jokingly) is "I didnt threaten to ban Malenko" , that's pretty ---smurfing--- weak bro.
My complaint was a brief amalgamation of why I don't feel you do a good job moderating. This is beyond just you accusing me both posting rom links and running Howard off, let's stop trying to make it about me. Its about YOU. The way you post in this thread is proof enough you don't deserve to be a moderator.
Agreed. I get where Scott is coming from, but challenging a member isn't problem solving. The posts might not quite make sense out of context anyway.
Let me just propose an gentleman's agreement here. No apologies owed on either side, but Mal, Neph and Scott, how about you all agree to turn the page on this and just handle things differently going forward. Scott, if you need to moderate Mal or Neph, simply do your edit to their post without any public commentary. Then, do a PM to that them and show the original post in quotes, then cite the rule violation as documentation. No other comments on the PM. Malenko and Neph, just agree to keep things cool as long as things are fair. If there is still an issue, it can be addressed at a later point when there is going to be a full documentation trail of what posts looked like before and after.
While I am a gentleman I'm going to have to not take you up on this agreement. Scott has proven to be incapable of change and or learning, and I don't think trying to silence the "squeaky wheels" is problem solving either. On more than one occasion I have stated I don't have a problem being moderated, but I do have an issue with how its done sometimes. Lastly, I dont need an apology from PL1; I dont think it'd be sincere. However a moderator resignation is a serviceable substitute.
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I don't need a a PM telling me I had a post sent to PH. Every time I drink a forty, a dump a little out for all those lost souls in Post Hell. :cheers:
That bit is mostly there for Scott. He states the burden of proof is on you guys, but he holds the keys to how the posts look, and he is the authority, so the reality is that the burden is much more on him to disprove.
While I am a gentleman I'm going to have to not take you up on this agreement. Scott has proven to be incapable of change and or learning, and I don't think trying to silence the "squeaky wheels" is problem solving either. On more than one occasion I have stated I don't have a problem being moderated, but I do have an issue with how its done sometimes. Lastly, I dont need an apology from PL1; I dont think it'd be sincere. However a moderator resignation is a serviceable substitute.
The reality is that you are not going to get Scott removed from a first complaint. However, if there is evidence that there is an ongoing problem, that is a different story. For it to be ongoing, you have to let things continue, for better or worse.
Not to diminish your points, but you did make a case that he has a steeper learning curve being a moderator, and naturally he is going to make more mistakes than someone who has been around a long time. It might have taken a knock-down drag-out fight between you guys to get there, but I believe Scott can learn to handle things more mindful in the future.
We do need moderators, spammer issues alone dictate that. So at this point, do you have a different idea for an agreement that can keep things civil until the truth fully threshes itself out?
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Hes been a mod for a while (5 1/2 months) , he should know better by now. He hasn't improved, in fact he's getting worse. I have little faith that this thread will change anything.
The most civil thing I believe , would for him to just stay the ---fudgesicle--- away from me. I will continue to call him on his ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.
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This thread should probably be locked and sent to Post Hell. :cheers:
There are serious concerns in this thread that deserve serious answers.
It would be nice if one of the other mods could clear out the off-topic/troublesome material.
I'd do it but when this topic was posted, I asked the other mods for feedback and notified them that I would recuse myself from mod activities (other than dealing with spammers) until this matter is settled.
Agreed. I get where Scott is coming from, but challenging a member isn't problem solving. The posts might not quite make sense out of context anyway.
Let me just propose an gentleman's agreement here. No apologies owed on either side, but Mal, Neph and Scott, how about you all agree to turn the page on this and just handle things differently going forward. Scott, if you need to moderate Mal or Neph, simply do your edit to their post without any public commentary. Then, do a PM to that them and show the original post in quotes, then cite the rule violation as documentation. No other comments on the PM. Malenko and Neph, just agree to keep things cool as long as things are fair. If there is still an issue, it can be addressed at a later point when there is going to be a full documentation trail of what posts looked like before and after.
Excellent suggestion on the documentation. :cheers:
The only issue I have with your proposal is that it leaves Malenko's claim in the OP about PM'd ban-threats unresolved.
All I ask in this matter is a simple statement that either:
1. It never happened or
2. If he thinks that it did happen, the relevant text.
To leave this question unanswered leaves the shadow of doubt that I am guilty of both trying to bully him and lying about it now.
This just in:
I never said you threatened to ban me
Close enough. Thank you for clearing that up.
I'm willing to follow Vigo's plan.
Scott
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Moderating is serious business
Normally I wouldn't give a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, but the ban threat was uncalled for. Just send my ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- to PH if it's too abrasive.
Yeah, I have to agree. When I read that thinly veiled ban threat in the Spectralite thread, I thought it was out of line. it was a conversation between Randy and Neph, and the mod inadvertently made himself a part of it (and took a side) by doing what he did.
My post was intended as a "Dude, what are you doing? Cut it out." nudge rather than a serious ban threat.
That line in the Spectalite thread was never intended as a ban threat, but in retrospect, I understand why it is viewed that way.
That unwise joke on my part is the only thing in all my posts and PMs that can be even remotely construed as being a ban threat.
I have already admitted that posting it was a major screw-up on my part.
One way or another, it won't happen again.
Scott
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there's one way to guarantee it never happens again - :police:
to recap your last post, You say "this just in" to an hour old post, then C/P something out of context leaving off the part where you're guilty of "jokingly" threatening to ban someone.
I can see this thread has really gotten you to clean up your act! kudos!
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That line in the Spectalite thread was never intended as a ban threat, but in retrospect, I understand why it is viewed that way.
After reading your ban threat (let's call it what it is) originally, I asked another member how he had interpreted it, as I wanted to make sure I was reading it right. Reading it over a couple of times, I could see it meaning one of two things: a ban threat, or deleting my posts. The other member also interpreted it as a ban threat. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I thought I should get it straight out of the horse's mouth and sent you the following PM (since you've magically lost your copy):
You talking about banning me? I've broken no rules. Or were you talking about sending my posts to Post Hell? I've already got 1000 posts there.
No reply... until you started catching heat. I don't subscribe to ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---.
(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/5e/5eacbb397972b32e1e4516959d4205458ebfa9881279c979efa91da50a64fea6.jpg)
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Yes Scott runs the wiki, I think that should be his full time job. Just to note, I did try to work on the wiki and the first thing that happened was, the pages I made were removed, all the data I researched was then added to a new page by the scottbot. So, yeah, I dont bother anymore.
Actualy, I PM'd to ask you if it was OK since the original page was named "Four Player Games".
Would you mind if we put all the 3+ player games on one page like the spinner/dial gamelist?
This will allow "one-stop-shopping" for multi-player game lists when planning a cab.
I'm thinking about a format like this:
- 3P games
-- 3P games requiring special controls
- 4P games
-- 4P games requiring special controls
- 6P games
-- 6P games requiring special controls
. . .
And several hours later,
Updated and sorted the list. ;D
Copied the contents to a new page here (http://newwiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?title=Multi-Player_Games) titled "Multi-Player Games".
Added links to other game lists and linked to the new page on the FAQ.
Thanks again. ;D
And check out the related Talk page here (http://newwiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?title=Talk:Multi-Player_Games).
Content on this page is copied from the 4-player list wiki page created by Malenko.
I'm always glad when someone contributes to the wiki and wanted to be sure that you got credit for the content.
(BTW, if anyone is wondering, I don't have server-level wiki access. I can't mess with time stamps.)
I deleted the original "Four Player Games" page since at that time we were the only ones who had seen it (or linked to it) and didn't want to leave a duplicate or orphan page like Le Chuck's trigger stick mod pages. (Active page here (http://newwiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?title=Wireless_Hot-swappable_Trigger_Stick_Mod), Locked orphan page here (http://newwiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?title=Wireless_Hot-swapable_Trigger_Stick_Mod))
If you weren't happy, why didn't you say something? :dunno
Scott
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Has anyone contacted Saint directly and asked him to resolve this? It's his place and while it's admirable that you are at least attempting to resolve this, it's fairly apparent that it's not going to work out without his decision about how to move forward.
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Has anyone contacted Saint directly and asked him to resolve this? It's his place and while it's admirable that you are at least attempting to resolve this, it's fairly apparent that it's not going to work out without his decision about how to move forward.
I posted on the moderator forum three days ago asking for brutally honest feedback and linking to this thread.
As of right now, 0 replies and 3 views. :dunno
Two of the views were me. :badmood:
Scott
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Let me put it out there that I got Malenko and Nephs back on what happened, bottom line, Scott shouldn't be waving the ban hammer around at all when he sees an infraction. I respect malenko and nephasth completely, they are my brothers, and know something is off when they are both feeling disrespected by a mod. I saw the case with neph on Randy's thread and agree it sounded like a ban threat. while I didn't see what Scott wrote in on mal's "p-dome" post, I believe malenko that it was an uncalled for comment.
At the same time, I think Scott is a good guy and solid rock here, and deserves the benefit of the doubt. I was not surprised with his selection, because he has been a stable source of help for everyone who comes here. After becoming a mod, he probably did not understand the weight he was carrying in his words, and after the lumps he is taking here, I am sure he will change his method of operation. I am happy he is actively here to clean up the streets, and day in day out stuff, I have no complaint. Scott screwed up, and that ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- can happen to the best of us.
None of you three are helping your case out though. Picking apart every detail of a post will not bring a Scott's head on a platter. Walls of text or asking for documentation will not make you look like a better mod.
So I will go back to my suggestion to the issue for now and all at least agree to focus on rule 6. If ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- crops up again, I will be happy to help fight it out.
6. Don't take it personally if you get edited by an admin or moderator. Things aren't always black and white and sometimes what is or isn't in line with the rules here is simply a judgement call. If your post gets edited but no other comment is made to you, don't stress about it. No one's mad at you or trying to censor your point of view. Just trying to keep it family friendly.
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after the lumps he is taking here, I am sure he will change his method of operation.
QFT.
Scott screwed up, and that ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- can happen to the best of us.
QFT part II.
Thanks, Vigo. :cheers:
Scott
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:cheers: Vigo.
I do want to clarify, that I haven't asked for any action to be taken against Scott. I just needed to submit my complaint. What gets done about it, and who handles it is out of my hands. But I've lost basically all respect for Scott, partly due to the ban threat, mostly due to how he's interacted with Malenko in this thread.
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RE: the wiki
It was a litmus test to see if I should even bother doing anything to it. As soon as you PM'ed me to move/alter/change/redo what little content I created, I was done. It honestly has no bearing on this because I'm fine with you doing whatever you want to the wiki, moderator or not. I don't feel the need to update anything else for it, nor will I direct people to it anymore. My PM replies were just the facade of a happy camper, I didn't see the point in fighting for something I care so little about. The forums are something different.
As for this discussion, its going in circles and I withdraw from the conversation. Do whatever you want, but stay away from me.
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I guess I shouldn't take long weekends. :(
I will be looking at all this in the morning. If everyone could please keep things civil a bit longer I'd appreciate it.
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I am writing up a response now.
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(http://i.imgur.com/PYIJqjS.gif)
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Hey PBJ.... I notice that guy isn't drinking toilet wine, its like in a bottle and everything, cant be a friend of yours.
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One day I'm going to have a beer with PBJ. I may end up pouring it over his head, or I may end up buying his drinks. It's a 50/50 toss-up.
There is a private discussion going on I want to conclude before I post anything here. Should be soon.
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One day I'm going to have a beer with PBJ. I may end up pouring it over his head, or I may end up buying his drinks. It's a 50/50 toss-up.
There is a private discussion going on I want to conclude before I post anything here. Should be soon.
If the GoFundMe is successful and we get PBJ to ZapCon 2015, you should come too. We can be there to watch you share a drink, or hold him down so you can pour the beer on him. Either way, we all win! :cheers:
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OK, I have sorted through this as best I can. I have no doubt I've missed some specifics and/or history but I think I have the gist.
First off, Hoopz is right. I have been an absentee mod to a large extent for a while. The last 12 months haven't been a great year for me. Everyone's got their own things to deal with so I won't bore you with mine, but from a priority perspective, moderating the forum hasn't been terribly high on my list.
That means the burden has fallen heavily on the most active mods, namely Delusional29, HaRuMaN, and PL1. There are two parts of moderating. The first is easy enough, if tedious - spammers. If not for the efforts of these three we'd be drowning in SPAM, so thank you guys for stepping up.
The other part is a lot harder - keeping the rules enforced without over-moderating. I hate having rules. Every rule in place goes just a little more towards stifling a free and open exchange of ideas and information. However, every single rule is there because someone was a jackass and did something illegal or obnoxious that put this site in jeopardy. So, we have rules.
The rules are as general as I could make them and still address the need, and enforcing them is always a judgement call. Since I wasn't here making those calls, PL1 was trying to do so. This is where I put PL1 in the bad position of having to try to read my mind and try to do things my way. It can't be done. I'm frequently inconsistent based on the individual situation. This has always been my house with my personal touch on how things are administered, and it wasn't fair of me to abandon that and expect anyone else to step in. The fault for any friction here is mine.
I've asked PL1 to ease back from rule enforcement but to continue to help moderate spammers and technical forum issues. In turn, I will try to step back up and keep my house in order.
This thread will stay open for anyone who has something they want to say, as long as it's kept civil please. Suggestions and criticism of me and the forum are welcomed.
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Thanks for your time, Saint. I now you've got more important ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- to deal with than internet drama.
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Eh, this is my baby. I should change its diapers every now and then.
Um... that analogy kind of went south.
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Eh, this is my baby. I should change its diapers every now and then.
Um... that analogy kind of went south.
Hmm. So who qualifies as the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- in the diaper? :laugh2:
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Eh, this is my baby. I should change its diapers every now and then.
Um... that analogy kind of went south.
As a dad I can verify that the analogy was dead on.
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Can we discuss Haruman next? He's manipulating the forum with his moderator abilities to better serve his commercial interests.
:cheers:
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Can we discuss Haruman next? He's manipulating the forum with his moderator abilities to better serve his commercial interests.
:cheers:
Rigggghhhhht. Cuz I delete the crap you constantly spew in my thread. :cheers:
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He's manipulating the forum with his moderator abilities to better serve his commercial interests.
You certainly have giant brass ones. (Certainly, nobody can ever accuse you of holding back when you have an opinion.)
My one thought is that the perception of having a moderator in the Retail Vendors forum who is also a Retail Vendor (and as such, has skin in the game) is that this exact point can be made quite easily. Regardless of how fairly one may moderate, this perception will always exist. Even if that Moderator never touched a post - someone can always call them out on moderating, because really, who knows what was there when we were all offline?
I'm wordy. I try to put my points across without offending people. I don't know if it's going to work all the time, but this is what I think.
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He's manipulating the forum with his moderator abilities to better serve his commercial interests.
You certainly have giant brass ones. (Certainly, nobody can ever accuse you of holding back when you have an opinion.)
My one thought is that the perception of having a moderator in the Retail Vendors forum who is also a Retail Vendor (and as such, has skin in the game) is that this exact point can be made quite easily. Regardless of how fairly one may moderate, this perception will always exist. Even if that Moderator never touched a post - someone can always call them out on moderating, because really, who knows what was there when we were all offline?
I'm wordy. I try to put my points across without offending people. I don't know if it's going to work all the time, but this is what I think.
Didn't you "try" to make this point already once, Rick? It didn't go anywhere last time, either.
Can we discuss Haruman next? He's manipulating the forum with his moderator abilities to better serve his commercial interests.
:cheers:
Proof?
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He's butthurt for whatever reason that I deleted this from the thread:
(http://i.imgur.com/qVOk76I.jpg)
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Oh, yeah. Well, he does have a tendency to crap in FS threads, so there's that....
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because really, who knows what was there when we were all offline?
There is a moderator log that shows every moderator action:
Deleted " credit card machine" by "cavlish5" from " credit card machine" Today at 03:04:11 am PL1 Global Moderator Logged
Moved "Seeburg 3WA contact arm issue" from "Main Forum" to "Audio/Jukebox/MP3 Forum" Yesterday at 11:09:42 pm PL1 Global Moderator Logged
Moved "Gorf Restoration" from "Main Forum" to "Restorations" Yesterday at 05:22:06 pm DeLuSioNal29 Global Moderator Logged
Deleted "Re: CNC Cut Bartop Kits - Orders Open! New Models Available!" by "pbj" from "CNC Cut Bartop Kits - Orders Open! New Models Available!" Yesterday at 03:47:58 pm HaRuMaN Global Moderator Logged
Moved "THE INVADERS (Zaccaria/Zelco) - Use in US" from "Everything Else" to "Miscellaneous Arcade" Yesterday at 07:12:04 am saint Supreme Chancellor Logged
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Didn't you "try" to make this point already once, Rick? It didn't go anywhere last time, either.
True. I don't think I'm wrong, however. The perception is there.
Proof?
PBJ had replied to Haruman's updated fightstick with a picture of the X-Arcade, which was very similar in design. That post no longer exists, but there's a post with more content in there now from SNAAKE.
Yeah - that one you guys posted above.
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Haruman has vaporized the proof, but he nuked a post where I pointed out how eerily close his new single player joystick was to an X-arcade.
Granted, he just posted a 3D mockup, so maybe it's just the CNC plans ready to go in case a fish is hooked?
Anyway, considering as that X-Arcade single player joystick is $70-80, and Haruman is likely to want at least $50 shipped for an unassembled stack of boards, I think it's only fair to point out the other option to people on this forum.
:cheers:
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Oh, yeah. Well, he does have a tendency to crap in FS threads, so there's that....
Only after the junk has been unloaded. C'mon, now.
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http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,6106.0.html (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,6106.0.html)
- No thread poisoning. Thread poisoning occurs when a person comes into a thread and posts something contrary to the spirit/intent of the thread.
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Oh, yeah. Well, he does have a tendency to crap in FS threads, so there's that....
Only after the junk has been unloaded. C'mon, now.
It's still thread-crapping. Good thing you got all that free toilet paper.
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And meh. It's a customer request. He sends me a pic, says he wants 4 controllers, make em look like this:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=136713.0;attach=324456;image)
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I take a 9 day break and come back to this? (PS, you guys probably didn't even notice :( )
My one thought is that the perception of having a moderator in the Retail Vendors forum who is also a Retail Vendor (and as such, has skin in the game) is that this exact point can be made quite easily.
I wont try as to not offend, because offended people will always find a way to be offended. This is now at least the 3rd time you've tried to make such a passive/aggressive accusation.
Here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,141081.msg1461253.html#msg1461253 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,141081.msg1461253.html#msg1461253) (Man, I even defense Scottard in this one!)
and here : http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,133905.msg1388865.html#msg1388865 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,133905.msg1388865.html#msg1388865)
A few things you fail to acknowledge, like the fact Haruman is the one who pinned your vendor sticky in the first place, and more importantly the fact you don't actually sell anything. He also pinned ebarlow's BST thread prior to Eric quitting BYOAC. You two are the only other bartop vendors Im aware of he didnt let the fact he sells bartops stop him from doing his moderating duties.
All that being said, your perception may not be indicative of the public's feelings, and the vast majority of blanket statements are false.
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I ain't really all that butthurt about it and I look forward to the thread poisoning rule being enforced.
:cheers:
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I ain't really all that butthurt about it and I look forward to the thread poisoning rule being enforced.
:cheers:
it wont, or you'd be banned, I'd be warned by saint, and X2's account would be nuked from space.
The tough part about things like fight sticks, is there's only so much you can do and in the end its bound to resemble something else already out there. I meant its just a glorified 6 sided wooden rectangle. :cheers:
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I take a 9 day break and come back to this? (PS, you guys probably didn't even notice :( )
I noticed, bro. Welcome back!!!
My one thought is that the perception of having a moderator in the Retail Vendors forum who is also a Retail Vendor (and as such, has skin in the game) is that this exact point can be made quite easily.
I wont try as to not offend, because offended people will always find a way to be offended. This is now at least the 3rd time you've tried to make such a passive/aggressive accusation.
Here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,141081.msg1461253.html#msg1461253 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,141081.msg1461253.html#msg1461253) (Man, I even defense Scottard in this one!)
and here : http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,133905.msg1388865.html#msg1388865 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,133905.msg1388865.html#msg1388865)
A few things you fail to acknowledge, like the fact Haruman is the one who pinned your vendor sticky in the first place, and more importantly the fact you don't actually sell anything. He also pinned ebarlow's BST thread prior to Eric quitting BYOAC. You two are the only other bartop vendors Im aware of he didnt let the fact he sells bartops stop him from doing his moderating duties.
All that being said, your perception may not be indicative of the public's feelings, and the vast majority of blanket statements are false.
Funny thing, perception. Once could perceive that a "vendor" making such accusations against another "vendor" is nothing more than sour grapes.
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I wont try as to not offend, because offended people will always find a way to be offended. This is now at least the 3rd time you've tried to make such a passive/aggressive accusation.
It's not an accusation - it's a fact. (I don't think it's all that "passive aggressive", either.) We have a moderator who has the ability to exert power and control over the Retail Vendors thread - regardless of whether he does so or not - who is also a Retail Vendor. It's my opinion that this isn't good for the forums, as it could be viewed in a negative light.
A few things you fail to acknowledge, like the fact Haruman is the one who pinned your vendor sticky in the first place, and more importantly the fact you don't actually sell anything. He also pinned ebarlow's BST thread prior to Eric quitting BYOAC. You two are the only other bartop vendors I'm aware of he didn't let the fact he sells bartops stop him from doing his moderating duties.
I'm sorry, but you're incorrect on the fact that I "don't sell anything". Regardless of the fact that I don't have a fully-functional CNC, I still have a stock of my own fight sticks for sale. I will also be opening my website/storefront shortly, and have PM'd Saint with a couple of questions that I need to get answered, prior to releasing the information publicly.
All that being said, your perception may not be indicative of the public's feelings, and the vast majority of blanket statements are false.
My perception/opinion certainly may NOT be indicative of the public's feelings. That's why they call it an opinion. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it any less important. In my opinion, you're being rather one-sided, and argumentative, which is fully within your right.
In my opinion, Haruman has been more than fair to everybody - myself included. My opinion isn't meant to be a personal attack. I like the guy. I've talked to him via PM and email offline. Sure we disagree on things from time to time - and in some instances, I've crapped up his threads a bunch and have apologized and asked him to sanitize them. I don't bear him any ill will whatsoever.
Beyond that, I have no idea what got you all upset.
Funny thing, perception. One could perceive that a "vendor" making such accusations against another "vendor" is nothing more than sour grapes.
You're missing the point, but I get it. It wasn't meant to be personal - it's a viewpoint. It's certainly not sour grapes, as I do know that I've complimented his work and have recommended him to others.
For the record, I like Haruman. He's done a lot for the community, and has been a cornerstone to this hobby. He's a good and fair moderator. I like Malenko. He offers his time, good information, and quality graphics work to the community. I like Yotsuya. He makes me laugh. He's never without something to say.
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it wont, or you'd be banned, I'd be warned by saint, and X2's account would be nuked from space.
(http://i.imgur.com/Pyig85D.jpg)
Funny thing, perception. One could perceive that a "vendor" making such accusations against another "vendor" is nothing more than sour grapes.
You're misusing the idiom sour grapes, English Teacher.
:cheers:
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Not sure what there is left to say. Complaints were aired, the mod has responded (in a respectful way, from where I sit), Saint has chimed in as well. This is a great forum. There is nothing in the hobby that compares. Not sure what the reason is for the high stress is around here lately, but I hope it fades soon. :cheers:
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No, I don't think I am. But that certainly doesn't change my perception of you, homeboy.
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Good lord... pbj's laughing his butt off somewhere, I'm sure.
(http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/u446/beaskeleton/tumblr_lsgix1XPli1qm71sh.gif)
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I used to care what PBJ thinks, but I know now he's pretty much the clown that used to be his avatar. Whatever gives him his kicks, I guess.
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brief retort:
Rick,
Yes , it is possible he could. Its just not probable or likely, so I don't see how him being a vendor and mod is an issue. As soon as he starts doing underhanded ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, I'm on your side.
If you feel that Haruman is more than fair to everyone, why bother saying he shouldn't be a seller and a mod?
Not selling anything was a joke. I know you sold at least 1 bartop that I did the Galaga art on, honestly I don't keep tabs on sellers.
I'm not one-sided, just pointing out why I disagree with you. I'm also not upset, but a little irritated, its like your beating a dead horse for no reason.
I appreciate the kind words, but some would say that I should go away. That my knowledge , time, and more often than not free artwork isnt worth the trouble of having me around. My self imposed 9 day ban was a gift to those people. :cheers:
You're misusing the idiom sour grapes, English Teacher.
How so? I was taught it meant self imagined hate for something one does not or cannot have ; in this case I would think sales one vendor got over another. From Aesop's fables, right?
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For me, it's this imagined "power" that only HaRuMaN has a vendor that no one else has to influence sales.
If PBJ made a thread like this one commenting how H-man's stick looked like Xs and that got deleted, I'd agree. But don't crap a FS thread. I'd feel the some way if someone crapped Rick's FS thread saying he stole designs from Taito, Nintnedo, etc.
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(http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/59413307.jpg)
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Yes, it is possible he could. It's just not probable or likely, so I don't see how him being a vendor and mod is an issue. As soon as he starts doing underhanded ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, I'm on your side.
That wouldn't happen - I'm pretty confident of that. But that, in itself, is not my point. I'm not saying Haruman is (or ever would be) a problem.
If you feel that Haruman is more than fair to everyone, why bother saying he shouldn't be a seller and a mod?
Not selling anything was a joke. I know you sold at least 1 bartop that I did the Galaga art on, honestly I don't keep tabs on sellers.
I didn't realize it was a joke. I was concerned that my status would be in jeopardy, if the perception was that I didn't have products to sell. (I also have a price list in the thread.)
:)
I'm not one-sided, just pointing out why I disagree with you. I'm also not upset, but a little irritated, its like your beating a dead horse for no reason.
I appreciate that. I look at it this way. This is not my site, it's Saint's. I like to think of this place as his business, and we're all stakeholders in it. If it's successful, we're all a little more successful. If we're Microsoft and someone on our Board of Directors works for Apple, then sometime, someone is going to come in and ---smurfette--- about it (a poor analogy, maybe, but still) and I think that brings us all down a bit.
Arguing like we do sometimes - and I gotta say, I felt ganged up on a bit here - bears a striking parallel to conversations on KLOV, which is a reason I don't go there much. (That being said, this is a public forum, and considering I've been a member on a bunch of them for more years than I have fingers and toes, you'd think I'd be used to that whole "brutal honesty/you butthurt, bro?" thing by now.)
:P
I appreciate the kind words, but some would say that I should go away. That my knowledge, time, and more often than not free artwork isn't worth the trouble of having me around. My self imposed 9 day ban was a gift to those people.
I, for one, would miss you. Then again, I also missed PBJ when he left. So, maybe my opinion can't really be trusted after all.
;)
Jokes. I joke. (At the expense of PBJ's perceived foibles only - I actually really did miss the guy when he left.)
In all seriousness, I do try to treat everybody as respectfully as I can, and when I'm NOT being respectful, I try to make sure people know I'm joking - with an emoticon, a "jk", or something.
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Hey, I missed PBJ, too. He may be an ---uvula---, but he's OUR ---uvula---.
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If PBJ made a thread like this one commenting how H-man's stick looked like Xs and that got deleted, I'd agree. But don't crap a FS thread. I'd feel the some way if someone crapped Rick's FS thread saying he stole designs from Taito, Nintnedo, etc.
At least I came up with some original names. "Pretendo"? Really?
:lol
(Also - I agree with your point.)
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Rick- it's all good. :cheers:
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In my opinion, Haruman has been more than fair to everybody - myself included. My opinion isn't meant to be a personal attack. I like the guy. I've talked to him via PM and email offline.
(http://www.modernette.ca/press/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/thank-you-gif-jim-carrey-the-mask-movie-oscar-winner.gif)
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We just need Jim to post the Now Kiss gif and we'll be ready for the weekend.
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At least I came up with some original names. "Pretendo"? Really?
I came up with pretendo, well , I didnt come up with the word, but I thought it worked well for the cab design. I think I named all the cabs :/
Just told him to change it to Mintendo (MIni ninTENDO) , so suck it? :cheers:
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At least I came up with some original names. "Pretendo"? Really?
I came up with pretendo, well , I didnt come up with the word, but I thought it worked well for the cab design. I think I named all the cabs :/
Other than Ultimate widescreen, yup.
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Personally I think you're all a bunch of nerds and no group of women would ever rate any of you higher than a 6.... (just depends on how much $ you make)
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Hey, I missed PBJ, too. He may be an ---uvula---, but he's OUR ---uvula---.
They could log in under different names, but some point, these archetypes (http://www.formalifesciencemarketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Archetypes-Chart.jpg) would manifest themselves anyway.
He maybe our ---uvula--- now:
(http://livingfreenyc.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Charmin.jpg)
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I look at you guys like brothers - some times brothers fight, sometimes they mess with each other, but in the end, we got each other's backs. Some of you are that creepy sister, though, and one or two of you are that ---uvula--- cousin you have that is always full of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- (and loves to eat Peanut Butter and Jelly), but he's family so you love him anyway.
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I came up with pretendo, well, I didn't come up with the word, but I thought it worked well for the cab design. I think I named all the cabs.
If you ever want a primer on arcade cab naming, you know where to find me.
:burgerking:
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I look at you guys like brothers - some times brothers fight, sometimes they mess with each other, but in the end, we got each other's backs. Some of you are that creepy sister, though, and one or two of you are that ---uvula--- cousin you have that is always full of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- (and loves to eat Peanut Butter and Jelly), but he's family so you love him anyway.
Aww, and I'll always think of you as that uncle that... ...you know.
Err.
;)
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I look at you guys like brothers - some times brothers fight, sometimes they mess with each other, but in the end, we got each other's backs. Some of you are that creepy sister, though, and one or two of you are that ---uvula--- cousin you have that is always full of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- (and loves to eat Peanut Butter and Jelly), but he's family so you love him anyway.
Aww, and I'll always think of you as that uncle that... ...you know.
Err.
;)
No, according to the late CoryBee, YOU'RE Uncle Touchy with the Naked Puzzle Basement. >:D
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No, according to the late CoryBee, YOU'RE Uncle Touchy with the Naked Puzzle Basement. >:D
Whatever you say, Uncle Yots.
:D
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Whatever happened to CoryBee?
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I look at you guys like brothers - some times brothers fight, sometimes they mess with each other, but in the end, we got each other's backs. Some of you are that creepy sister, though, and one or two of you are that ---uvula--- cousin you have that is always full of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- (and loves to eat Peanut Butter and Jelly), but he's family so you love him anyway.
Aww, and I'll always think of you as that uncle that... ...you know.
Err.
;)
No, according to the late CoryBee, YOU'RE Uncle Touchy with the Naked Puzzle Basement. >:D
Damn, he is late isn't he? He should be here by now.
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No, according to the late CoryBee, YOU'RE Uncle Touchy with the Naked Puzzle Basement. >:D
Whatever you say, Uncle Yots.
:D
No problem, Cousin Eddie.
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Whatever happened to CoryBee?
He's wearing a puffy shirt and making his way across Europe trying to get laid.
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So now that you've all tugged it out how about you invest some effort in addressing the following:
A website that actually works, displays what exactly you're selling, includes prices,details how to put them together, and shows some finished products.
An enormous and obnoxious company logo that leads you to a complete dead end is worthless. (time to alleviate the eye twitch and filter that damned thing)
Burying product announcements in a bloated, obscene 1,800 post thread accomplishes nothing.
Your market is filthy casuals that can't work a jigsaw. Why do you both make it so hard for them to give you money?
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http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,128980.0.html (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,128980.0.html)
This is the end? perhaps?
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A website that actually works, displays what exactly you're selling, includes prices,details how to put them together, and shows some finished products.
I have all of that in progress. In fact, I'll be the first to say I'm too focused on the details and could have probably launched 'most of it' months ago. I do hope to have this completed and launched in the next week. (I am still waiting on some info from Saint, so Saint, if you're reading this, there's a PM waiting for you.)
An enormous and obnoxious company logo that leads you to a complete dead end is worthless. (time to alleviate the eye twitch and filter that damned thing)
If you're speaking of mine, I don't find it enormous nor obnoxious. Different strokes.
Burying product announcements in a bloated, obscene 1,800 post thread accomplishes nothing.
That I agree! When you're right, you're right.
Your market is filthy casuals that can't work a jigsaw. Why do you both make it so hard for them to give you money?
Again, you're right. I'm working on it, good sir.
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*unlurk*
Responded. Sorry Rick, thought I had already. Getting too senile to be trusted.
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Your market is filthy casuals that can't work a jigsaw. Why do you both make it so hard for them to give you money?
In general, if you're building a mame machine you're pretty much a "filthy casual". Everyone knows playing on real PCB's are for hardcore playaz. ;) 8)
But lets face it, Mame is great for sampling games...very seldom do people concentrate on one game for a while when there's so many games to choose from.
*fyi Rick, quoting pbj too many times is like repeating Bloody Mary 3 times in front of a mirror with the lights turned off.
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But lets face it, Mame is great for sampling games...very seldom do people concentrate on one game for a while when there's so many games to choose from.
I actually appreciate the competitions here for that reason, because it does get me to play a game for a week or so, at least if the game doesn't blow chunks.
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But lets face it, Mame is great for sampling games...very seldom do people concentrate on one game for a while when there's so many games to choose from.
I actually appreciate the competitions here for that reason, because it does get me to play a game for a week or so, at least if the game doesn't blow chunks.
Oh definitely, I agree with that.
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I actually appreciate the competitions here for that reason, because it does get me to play a game for a week or so, at least if the game doesn't blow chunks.
Same here. I'm always last place but what the hell.
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I was happy coming in second on Burger Time.
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For the life of me, I cannot figure this thread out. :dunno
BTW I think PL1 is an excellent moderator, and innovator.
We are lucky to have him around. :cheers: