The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: ahofle on April 12, 2018, 01:15:32 pm
-
This is crazy!
http://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/king-of-kong-stripped-of-title-1202751358/ (http://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/king-of-kong-stripped-of-title-1202751358/)
-
Some day, I will never hear about this guy ever again. And that will be a good day.
-
I'd rather hear about this nerdy saga any day of the week over any of the other garbage on the news today. :cheers:
-
But this was all just a smear campaign orchestrated by Dwayne Richard. (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/Smileys/default/laught16.gif)
-
what pbj said.....I cant believe I just typed that.
-
Hey, wasn't that dude in Pixels?
I thought he was taller.
-
Billy and Kaneda need to get together and have a sausage party.
-
I'm confident that an esteemed group such as TG holds each and every record submitted to the same standards and scrutiny and no Mame recorded high scores slips through the cracks. Hey remember when they were pimping out high score certifications for cash?
-
This is crazy!
http://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/king-of-kong-stripped-of-title-1202751358/ (http://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/king-of-kong-stripped-of-title-1202751358/)
(https://media.giphy.com/media/NnGGHE0muVqpO/giphy.gif)
-
I'm confident that an esteemed group such as TG holds each and every record submitted to the same standards and scrutiny and no Mame recorded high scores slips through the cracks. Hey remember when they were pimping out high score certifications for cash?
Vigo, you have to understand that the people that hold high scores have a different mentality. They have trained tirelessly in the pursuit and invested large portions of their lives. It's not like someone could just get high, veg out playing Snacks 'n Jaxon or some other random game, and beat the world record.
-
I'm confident that an esteemed group such as TG holds each and every record submitted to the same standards and scrutiny and no Mame recorded high scores slips through the cracks. Hey remember when they were pimping out high score certifications for cash?
Aren't/Weren't you a record holder on there in some crazy ass game?
-
Vigo, you have to understand that the people that hold high scores have a different mentality. They have trained tirelessly in the pursuit and invested large portions of their lives. It's not like someone could just get high, veg out playing Snacks 'n Jaxon or some other random game, and beat the world record.
CHadTower has the record for Clockwork Knight on Saturn, his score is easily beat but no one gives a ---fudgesicle--- enough to bother submitting a higher score.
NO ONE ---smurfing--- CARES. We definitely need like 8 Billy Mitchell threads though.............
-
I submitted a bunch of ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- scores and they finally told me to stop. I was like #1 on Windjammers with 700 points.
:lol
-
I'm confident that an esteemed group such as TG holds each and every record submitted to the same standards and scrutiny and no Mame recorded high scores slips through the cracks. Hey remember when they were pimping out high score certifications for cash?
Vigo, you have to understand that the people that hold high scores have a different mentality. They have trained tirelessly in the pursuit and invested large portions of their lives. It's not like someone could just get high, veg out playing Snacks 'n Jaxon or some other random game, and beat the world record.
I get what it means to the record holder, I am more acknowledging that there is a spotted history from the organization the is the gatekeeper of the records. At one point swatches of records were lost when changing ownership. Multiple stories of some scores being held to different standards. I don't think that many involved were a bad actors, stuff I have perked up on seemed to be a the result of letting multiple personalities rule the show and budget and time constraints leaving inconsistent standards.
I'm confident that an esteemed group such as TG holds each and every record submitted to the same standards and scrutiny and no Mame recorded high scores slips through the cracks. Hey remember when they were pimping out high score certifications for cash?
Aren't/Weren't you a record holder on there in some crazy ass game?
Yeah, I had achieved the record for Snack n Jaxson. It was a Mame record, but that was OK, because the only records for the game then were in the Mame category. I submitted the record, and was approved quickly, but they would not post it for me unless I handed them a sweaty wad of cash to seal the deal. Another wad of money for them to send me a sheet of paper telling me the score I got. I was not willing to pay for either.
-
I submitted a bunch of ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- scores and they finally told me to stop. I was like #1 on Windjammers with 700 points.
:lol
Buhaha! :lol
-
My buddy Dave tied the 27 point Stunt Cycle world record on like his 3rd game back when I owned one. No video proof though since we were not expecting it and he only ever managed to do it again one other time.
I'm confident that an esteemed group such as TG holds each and every record submitted to the same standards and scrutiny and no Mame recorded high scores slips through the cracks. Hey remember when they were pimping out high score certifications for cash?
Vigo, you have to understand that the people that hold high scores have a different mentality. They have trained tirelessly in the pursuit and invested large portions of their lives. It's not like someone could just get high, veg out playing Snacks 'n Jaxon or some other random game, and beat the world record.
-
My buddy Dave tied the 27 point Stunt Cycle world record on like his 3rd game back when I owned one. No video proof though since we were not expecting it and he only ever managed to do it again one other time.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2523/3972913623_ea3350a89e_m.jpg)
-
+1 fake rep
-
Dude, I got 27 at ZapCon a few years back
-
My proof
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180413/86429ac779b6dfd00545f370840c9126.jpg)
-
So I am at the Midwest Gaming Classic. Someone was pretty lonely at the pre opening last night. They let a limited number of people in the night before the actual event. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180414/6cc857c2ea5e851fa3a8471842f07778.jpg)
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
-
Lol. Oh man. That’s an iconic shot, sell it to Kotaku.
-
Go say hi, Mike. Nicest guy you’ll ever meet.
-
That's what I have heard. I just thought that was a great pic. In was going to say hello, but it was my turn on Iron Maiden pinball. He was gone after my game ended. My problem is that he cheated, and he won't own up to it. People do dumb things. Own up to your mistakes and apologize.
-
Enh, i’m not saying go up and say hi to him because of the “worlds records”. Go say hi to him because he’s a nice guy.
-
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180414/79e556dd2c9dd72f275e406525c66c09.jpg)
-
Own up to your mistakes and apologize.
Ironic.
-
I'm a Billy Mitchell fan. What a bummer.
I wish I knew about him a 15 years ago. I used to travel in and out of Hollywood Florida all the time and never even knew to stop at his folks BBQ joint.
-
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/9aecce5f34a7a310698ec0696eac548e/tenor.gif?itemid=3478635)
-
Did he or didn't he, I could care less. I met Billy Mitchell at FreePlay in Orlando this past year. We shook hands and chatted a bit about the mundane, not about video game records, where are you from that sort of thing. " Have you seen the the Homebrews? Cupcade and Polybius?" cool stuff. EA was there and we happened to be standing by their table where there was to be some sort of raffle. A kid, probably 10 to 12 years of age came up, and asked for a raffle ticket. He was denied as the age of entry was 18 or over. He was told if a parent would sign they'd be happy to issue him a ticket and grab some swag from the table. The kid was hurt, I think he was just dropped off for the day and his parents would pick him up later. Before I could do anything, Billy jumped in, "Hey!, I need a ticket!, to which EA handed him one immediately and he grabbed some swag as well. We found the kid, and Billy handed over the loot telling him "If you win, come get me, I'm here all day and I'll claim your prize for you. But make sure you come to me first." I stayed for at least three drawings, but alas the kid didn't win. I had hoped he won in one of the later drawings. Billy also has a wicked sense of humor. I'm not sure if it was people playing the giant Donkey Kong, which Billy was offering advice, or people that had him pose for photos. But throughout the day, I noticed many people with small photos of Billy Mitchell giving a thumbs up pasted to the back of their shirts. I think he was clapping people on the back and leaving his mark, so to speak. There is a video somewhere on YouTube from a talk he gave while in Orlando. Someone asked about King of Kong and his portrayal as the villain. He said he'd become aware pretty early as to how he was being portrayed and said "Do you know how much fun it is to play the bad guy?". I'm no fanboy, and video games are not the be all, end all of my life. I just happened to meet some guy whose name I recognized and he made my day that much better. Not because of some championship but because we shared some friendly conversation at a pretty cool event. Whatever the outcome, Billy's ok in my book.
Regards,
Scam
-
I am rooting for him. I have seen too many rush to judgement situations like this, with haters piling on like its their job. Which is what haters do. So I guess it is their job? Whatever. ;D
-
I am rooting for him. I have seen too many rush to judgement situations like this, with haters piling on like its their job. Which is what haters do. So I guess it is their job? Whatever. ;D
Nobody rushed into anything.
The case has caused a good number of people to record high quality 60fps footage from genuine DK arcade PCBs.
That footage has been used to fix fundamental flaws in the way MAME was rendering Donkey Kong compared to a real PCB, the 2 most recent versions of MAME contain those improvements. It's very easy to look at the MAME codebase and say "oops, yes, we were doing that wrong in older versions" based on the real DK PCB evidence that has been provided.
On the contrary, the only way you can get output that matches the material supplied for the record tapes Billy provided is if those fundamental flaws exist, ie it's rendering with the bugs that would only be present in older emulators, the very bugs that the recent real hardware material has helped us fix.
Nice guy or not a nice guy is kinda irrelevant here, good at the game or not good at the game, again irrelevant, cheated in other ways or didn't cheat, irrelevant. By claiming, and then insisting that the record was done with a genuine original 1981 Donkey Kong PCB the chain of trust has been broken.
Might be nitpicking, but they have different score tables for PCBs / MAME for good reason. The evidence conclusively shows it can't be a real 1981 hardware recording, and he says it isn't a MAME recording, so in the end it has no home on either leaderboard.
-
Nobody cares about any of that ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.
-
The case has caused a good number of people to record high quality 60fps footage from genuine DK arcade PCBs.
That footage has been used to fix fundamental flaws in the way MAME was rendering Donkey Kong compared to a real PCB, the 2 most recent versions of MAME contain those improvements. It's very easy to look at the MAME codebase and say "oops, yes, we were doing that wrong in older versions" based on the real DK PCB evidence that has been provided.
This is the most interesting item I've seen come out of the whole Billygate debacle.
-
I am rooting for him. I have seen too many rush to judgement situations like this, with haters piling on like its their job.
This investigation took over 2 months to complete and come to a decision. No one at TG rushed to anything.
-
The score is still impressive. But rules are rules I guess.
-
If there was no other cheating then it's actually more impressive, because with emulators and PCBs based on emulators you're dealing with at least one extra frame of input latency.
The problem is a lot of people think there is something else fishy going on based on other things seen in the tapes and that whole chain of trust thing I mentioned.
-
And These...Are the Days of Our Lives.
Really cool that DK emulation was improved through this.
-
(https://m.popkey.co/eedbea/zEm37.gif)
-
Looks like this dispute is going to court.
https://www.techspot.com/news/81872-arcade-legend-billy-mitchell-threatens-sue-twin-galaxies.html (https://www.techspot.com/news/81872-arcade-legend-billy-mitchell-threatens-sue-twin-galaxies.html)
Scott
-
I knew this malarkey had been going on a while now, but didn't know they made a movie about it, all the way back in the '50s.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047956/ (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047956/)
-
Looks like this dispute is going to court.
https://www.techspot.com/news/81872-arcade-legend-billy-mitchell-threatens-sue-twin-galaxies.html (https://www.techspot.com/news/81872-arcade-legend-billy-mitchell-threatens-sue-twin-galaxies.html)
Scott
The guy is probably desperate to hold onto his only legacy in life.
-
If there was no other cheating then it's actually more impressive, because with emulators and PCBs based on emulators you're dealing with at least one extra frame of input latency.
The problem is a lot of people think there is something else fishy going on based on other things seen in the tapes and that whole chain of trust thing I mentioned.
+1
Here’s a link to surpassingly the direct live footage, digitized from tape. It is a CRT. I wonder if he even knew it was MAME? Perhaps some one set it up to get a „direct feed“ and he didn’t look into how it was done? Assuming he didn’t have any sort of game/emulator hacks, it would likely be tougher than original due to lag. Impressive regardless, and tarnishing his fame sounds like a grudge. Give him a chance to clear his name? I’d like to see proof of cheating outside of using MAME. There is lots of comments and nothing to back them from what I see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0ZKEGZpggI
-
Not this ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- again
-
Give him a chance to clear his name? I’d like to see proof of cheating outside of using MAME. There is lots of comments and nothing to back them from what I see.
He was given that chance in the movie 'King of Kong' but he never would. But I do agree, sit him down in front of a certified DK machine and let him play. If he's as good as he claims, it shouldn't be an issue. The fact that he's trying to just re-instate his old records instead of shutting everybody up by proving them wrong speaks volumes IMO.
-
Do you expect him to get the world record live on demand? Or just a high enough score to show he can play. He has done the latter. Getting the high score on demand, live? These scores took years to achieve and TG stripped him of all his scores for all games.
-
Actually we don't know he has because for years his friends have been covering for him. I gladly admit that in the 80's he was a force to be reckoned with, but I'm not aware of a recent live event where he competed in front of impartial witnesses and got a score anywhere near what he gets when he sends in his tapes. The problem with using mame is that you can just build a bot to play the game for you.... speed runners do it all the time to test new techniques.
-
His multi camera live stream last year doesn't count? I thought he both broke a million on that, and covered his bases to prove it wasn't mame.
-
That's around 250,000 short of the world record. He's a high tier player, but that's not the same as being the best in the world. I'm not familiar with the live stream you are talking about but considering how shady some of his submissions have been in the past it'd only be proof if someone besides his twin galaxy buddies were there to verify anyway.
-
A quick google search shows he accomplished both his livestream "redemption" scores, which were the same scores as what TG rejected in front of witnesses and in a public arcade. After achieving the high score, he takes the main feed camera without cutting uses it to inspect the entire cabinet. Mitchell didn't claim to have the best current score in the world and I don't know why you would expect him to achieve that. What he did achieve is the scores they booted him over, which WAS the high score back when it happened.
Also, you are not going to get an impartial TG ref to sit live for the months it took him to redo both his scores. I don't think many of those exist. I am not saying they were wrong about Billy's old scores being on Mame, but that entire peanut gallery is filled with bitterness and heaps of bias, and maybe a few who were treated like a pariah if they didn't pull out their pitchfork for the "destroy everything Billy" crusade.
-
at this point, he's wiling to do anything to try and keep this "king of kong" name including
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI6Zf_XPFdA
sue EVERYBODY who talks about him... well almost anything... short of ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME! He's the new Meatloaf... he'll do anything for Kong, but he won't do that.
-
To me it isn't a question of whether or not he cheated. It was how they treated the guy. Pretty sure Billy was playing on Mame at minimum, and the "investigation" outcome should probably not have changed, but TG handled it all like ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.
The whole process was run by a mob mentality, and he had a public investigation / execution. You can go out there and read it, post by post. Any comments on TG to the contrary of "destroy Billy Mitchell" over there was met with hostility. Billy is well within his rights to sue, because no other place that calls itself an legit organization runs its internal investigations like that. If this was just a hobby website, sure, rip a guy to shreds for cheating. This was a cluster, and TG had a standard to hold, which they failed to do.
... well almost anything... short of ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME!
Playing the game is exactly what he did. He got to the grindstone and played constantly until he recreated both his questionable scores on legit hardware. I don't know what more you can expect from a guy blacklisted by most the high score community. That ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- doesn't matter over there. TG isn't going to reinstate any of his scores, even if he did a better job documenting it than 99% of the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- they allow.
-
Imagine caring this much over something so trivial. You guys are still arguing about a 10 year old movie. Twin Galaxies is an elderly man and 5 people on his forum.
-
Jim's just jaded from never hitting celebrity status over that 3rd place record on Windjammers.
-
It's like caring about football... ::)
-
...or caring about anything I say.
-
Sports are the secular glue that holds society together.
:cheers:
-
Sports are the secular glue that holds society together.
:cheers:
Bread and circuses... They'll never revolt.
-
Yes, Neph, thanks.
-
Go team Billy! :lol
That's totally me, though.
-
A quick google search shows he accomplished both his livestream "redemption" scores, which were the same scores as what TG rejected in front of witnesses and in a public arcade. After achieving the high score, he takes the main feed camera without cutting uses it to inspect the entire cabinet. Mitchell didn't claim to have the best current score in the world and I don't know why you would expect him to achieve that. What he did achieve is the scores they booted him over, which WAS the high score back when it happened.
Also, you are not going to get an impartial TG ref to sit live for the months it took him to redo both his scores. I don't think many of those exist. I am not saying they were wrong about Billy's old scores being on Mame, but that entire peanut gallery is filled with bitterness and heaps of bias, and maybe a few who were treated like a pariah if they didn't pull out their pitchfork for the "destroy everything Billy" crusade.
The problem is that he DID claim to have the high score several times and nearly every time something was fishy about his submission and the tg guys often gave him special treatment compared to normal submissions. You can't do that. It's like if a sports star is caught using steroids ALL of their records are made null and void, not just the ones they made while juicing. It doesn't matter if doing it on mame would be harder.. it's against the rules and therefore it's cheating and therefore you get stripped of your records... it's as simple as that... the whole point of that whole thing is that you do NOT get special treatment just because you are friends with all the record keepers. A lot of this actually isn't even his fault, it's Twin Galaxies for not keeping everything on the up and up.
-
I don't think we disagree, but I think you misunderstood what I was saying. The high score today is much higher than when he "achieved" it in 2006 or whenever that was. He has proven he can get his old score legitimately, but never claimed he could get the current high score held today. So, when I said he did put up a high score livestream that was legit, and you said it was 250k shy of the high score. It is only 250k shy of the current score. He hit his exact high scores from BITD.
Other than that, I agree, he probably was treated like he could walk on water. As I understand it, his high score submission for DK that was played in the King of Kong wasn't a submission at all. Billy sent it to show off to his followers, and they knew it wasn't a submission, but they were so smitten with the performance they just put it up, and disregarded any real vetting. When the cheating came up, they did turn around and publicly burn him at the stake, which is only worse. The way they held a public mob trial for him, let people with a obvious agenda against him take part in the investigation, and didn't give Billy a chance to defend himself as part of the process was stupid. You can spend 5 minutes on TG reading some of that stuff. Example top of mind, they were discussing how to announce the cheating in a way that would maximize Billy's public humiliation. I'd probably be threatening to sue as well.
To add context, this whole thing was so much a public circus that we all got this:
(https://www.toplessrobot.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/dinklage-mitchell.jpg)
-
... Twin Galaxies is an elderly man and 5 people on his forum.
*Not me folks. Although I am elderly.
-
I have Pixels in my (Netherlands) cue. Soon.
@nephasth: telling people they are living The Truman Show just gets them in a snit.
-
He hit his exact high scores from BITD.
No, actually, he didn't:
https://www.twingalaxies.com/the-evener/wall/5773/update-what-billy-mitchells-twitch-scores-mean-and-dont-mean
-------------------------
from twingalaxies:
Consider Mitchell's 1,047,500 million point Twitch score. Despite his earlier pledge at the Southern-Fried Gaming Expo to achieve his exact scores, Mitchell actually ended with 300 more points than his original 2005 score of 1,047,200. While mere mortals would never quarrel over 300 additional points on a million point game, recall that Mitchell’s 1,047,200 game was achieved deliberately - a score that was exactly 100,000 points more than Steve Wiebe’s submission back in 2003.
The same held true for Mitchell’s 1,050,100 Twitch game, which came in 100 points below his removed score of 1,050,200 achieved in 2007. But the 100 point difference tells only part of the story. During his original run, Mitchell achieved his desired score on Level 21-1 before eliminating his extra man and ending his game early, serving notice to competitors that he deliberately left a potential 55,000 points on the floor. On his Twitch stream, Mitchell was required to play an additional four stages in his quest to match the 2007 score but lost his last life prematurely, thereby missing his target score by 100 points and with a lesser figure of a potential 12,000 points “unplayed" before the kill screen.
======================
Just another baseless claim, and not doing what he said.
Did you you actually watch the livestreams, or are you just repeating what he says.
Don't believe anything until you research it yourself. then you will see how wrong billy is.
later
-1
-
Yeah there's stuff like that. The only problem is TG is just as guilty because they either trusted him blindly or looked the other way on more than a few occasions.
Billy's attitude is a huge part of the problem. This is a guy that sued a cartoon (regular Show) because they did a parody of him in an episode.... most people would be flattered by that. Also he's now suing people that he supposedly thought of as friends, regardless of corporate restructuring. That just isn't the way to handle something as trivial as high scores on a 30 year old video game, but because that's apparently all he has going on in his life he just can't let it go.
-
ugh... it's dragster all over again.
this guy will lie himself to the end of the world. he got caught, yet he continues to say no, it's legit....and he's willing to run anyone into the ground who proved him wrong.
-
He hit his exact high scores from BITD.
No, actually, he didn't:
https://www.twingalaxies.com/the-evener/wall/5773/update-what-billy-mitchells-twitch-scores-mean-and-dont-mean
-------------------------
from twingalaxies:
Consider Mitchell's 1,047,500 million point Twitch score. Despite his earlier pledge at the Southern-Fried Gaming Expo to achieve his exact scores, Mitchell actually ended with 300 more points than his original 2005 score of 1,047,200. While mere mortals would never quarrel over 300 additional points on a million point game, recall that Mitchell’s 1,047,200 game was achieved deliberately - a score that was exactly 100,000 points more than Steve Wiebe’s submission back in 2003.
The same held true for Mitchell’s 1,050,100 Twitch game, which came in 100 points below his removed score of 1,050,200 achieved in 2007. But the 100 point difference tells only part of the story. During his original run, Mitchell achieved his desired score on Level 21-1 before eliminating his extra man and ending his game early, serving notice to competitors that he deliberately left a potential 55,000 points on the floor. On his Twitch stream, Mitchell was required to play an additional four stages in his quest to match the 2007 score but lost his last life prematurely, thereby missing his target score by 100 points and with a lesser figure of a potential 12,000 points “unplayed" before the kill screen.
======================
Just another baseless claim, and not doing what he said.
Did you you actually watch the livestreams, or are you just repeating what he says.
Don't believe anything until you research it yourself. then you will see how wrong billy is.
later
-1
I think you are exactly proving my point. This whole thing is a public execution by TG, and they will never give him the satisfaction. That whole “100k points better than weibe” or “55000 points left on the table” is just garbage propped up by TG, why should I care that they try to knock him down with it.
Good job using an impartial resource. ::)
-
He hit his exact high scores from BITD.
No, actually, he didn't:
https://www.twingalaxies.com/the-evener/wall/5773/update-what-billy-mitchells-twitch-scores-mean-and-dont-mean
-------------------------
from twingalaxies:
Consider Mitchell's 1,047,500 million point Twitch score. Despite his earlier pledge at the Southern-Fried Gaming Expo to achieve his exact scores, Mitchell actually ended with 300 more points than his original 2005 score of 1,047,200. While mere mortals would never quarrel over 300 additional points on a million point game, recall that Mitchell’s 1,047,200 game was achieved deliberately - a score that was exactly 100,000 points more than Steve Wiebe’s submission back in 2003.
The same held true for Mitchell’s 1,050,100 Twitch game, which came in 100 points below his removed score of 1,050,200 achieved in 2007. But the 100 point difference tells only part of the story. During his original run, Mitchell achieved his desired score on Level 21-1 before eliminating his extra man and ending his game early, serving notice to competitors that he deliberately left a potential 55,000 points on the floor. On his Twitch stream, Mitchell was required to play an additional four stages in his quest to match the 2007 score but lost his last life prematurely, thereby missing his target score by 100 points and with a lesser figure of a potential 12,000 points “unplayed" before the kill screen.
======================
Just another baseless claim, and not doing what he said.
Did you you actually watch the livestreams, or are you just repeating what he says.
Don't believe anything until you research it yourself. then you will see how wrong billy is.
later
-1
I think you are exactly proving my point. This whole thing is a public execution by TG, and they will never give him the satisfaction. That whole “100k points better than weibe” or “55000 points left on the table” is just garbage propped up by TG, why should I care that they try to knock him down with it.
Good job using an impartial resource. ::)
you can get the scores from the Twitch stream, and they still don't match.
did you miss the point that he didn't match his old scores, or do you really think
he got his exact scores.
using the twin galaxies site is the point, otherwise why would he try to sue them.
they're the ones that had his original scores in the first place.
and all this talk about not submitting tapes for scores is off, when clearly its
shown in many interviews that he has submitted scores on tapes.
later
-1
-
I don't think I am making a difficult point to understand. It was only fanboi-ism that apparently made those exact numbers matter. Somebody at TG geeked out that Billy got exactly 100k over weibe. Now Billy, being told that his scores were moot sat down and got 100.2k over Weibe's old score and someone at TG geeked out because it was no longer exactly 100k over Weibe. Billy would have dragged out any score that was the record, regardless if he could put theatrics behind it or not.
I just don't subscribe to the bitter circle-jerkings of the Angry Twin Galaxies mob. Just because Guinness outsourced their inability to vet video game scores games to those guys doesn't make them a paragon of virtue and impartiality.
-
To me it isn't a question of whether or not he cheated. It was how they treated the guy. Pretty sure Billy was playing on Mame at minimum, and the "investigation" outcome should probably not have changed, but TG handled it all like ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.
The whole process was run by a mob mentality, and he had a public investigation / execution. You can go out there and read it, post by post. Any comments on TG to the contrary of "destroy Billy Mitchell" over there was met with hostility. Billy is well within his rights to sue, because no other place that calls itself an legit organization runs its internal investigations like that. If this was just a hobby website, sure, rip a guy to shreds for cheating. This was a cluster, and TG had a standard to hold, which they failed to do.
... well almost anything... short of ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME!
Playing the game is exactly what he did. He got to the grindstone and played constantly until he recreated both his questionable scores on legit hardware. I don't know what more you can expect from a guy blacklisted by most the high score community. That ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- doesn't matter over there. TG isn't going to reinstate any of his scores, even if he did a better job documenting it than 99% of the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- they allow.
By your logic, if a MLB slugger gets caught doping ... OH, it's OK... he can hit `em out of the park without the juice.
Are you OK with Lance Armstrong? The man CAN obviously ride with the best ... but he STILL CHEATED!
This seems to be a difficult concept for some to comprehend for some strange reason.
Even my 10 year old son understands what makes Billy Mitchell a cheater... and it's not his ability or lack thereof at playing Donkey Kong.
-
I'm with Frizzle on this one. You seem to be making a ton of excuses for a man that has been caught cheating. Yeah TG isn't free of guilt in this, but that doesn't make him any less guilty. He cheated, so he doesn't get his scores restored.... end of discussion.
Now because of TG's dirty hands the whole high score business should really be disbanded, but that's a completely different discussion.
-
Now because of TG's dirty hands the whole high score business should really be disbanded, but that's a completely different discussion.
That will Not happen. Significant high-scoring is about current and recent games. Billions of 'real' dollars in circulation. And people at Large seek praise and prestige.
-
By your logic, if a MLB slugger gets caught doping ... OH, it's OK... he can hit `em out of the park without the juice.
Are you OK with Lance Armstrong? The man CAN obviously ride with the best ... but he STILL CHEATED!
This seems to be a difficult concept for some to comprehend for some strange reason.
Even my 10 year old son understands what makes Billy Mitchell a cheater... and it's not his ability or lack thereof at playing Donkey Kong.
Dude, not what I am saying at all! Maybe you only skimmed the posts, but I started this all by calling out the peanut gallery who claimed that Billy could restore his name by simply just repeating his scores. I called ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- on those people. I never argued that repeating his scores would restore his name. I pointed out he already did that and, surprise surprise, it means nothing! I am completely agreeing that the man is damaged goods.
The only other point I am making, which is in no way defending Billy or whatever behavior he was part of, is that TG ran his investigation like a shitshow. I think I made that point well enough, so I rest my case. I do question on a personal level whether or not he really cheated in the sense of using MAME to his advantage vs just using MAME out of convenience. But that is a point I haven't been arguing at all, as I understand it doesn't matter, the scores shouldn't count because he played in a way that no longer demonstrated he was only using his talent to achieve them.
Now because of TG's dirty hands the whole high score business should really be disbanded, but that's a completely different discussion.
They have changed hands and models so many times since being recognized as the paragon of high scores. Tons of scores have been lost or altered in the process. I have better faith BYOAC or KLOV could manage arcade high scores better than TG if we chose to do so.
-
The only other point I am making, which is in no way defending Billy or whatever behavior he was part of, is that TG ran his investigation like a shitshow.
Nope. they ran it by the books. You've either never read through all of the evidence or are just being obtuse on purpose. The data is so damning it's not even funny. The investigation went on for a really long time and was started by somebody far before it ever gained momentum at TG.
Go to the Donkey Kong forums and ask the players that have the top scores or read their threads.. The fact is that Billy did not have the skills to make those scores, even back then. That was why he cheated with MAME.
I do question on a personal level whether or not he really cheated in the sense of using MAME to his advantage vs just using MAME out of convenience.
I guess this answers my question of if you actually read through the TG evidence, which you clearly haven't. He used save states. He couldn't match Weibe's scores back then without playing each board over and over again until the RNG gave him high scoring barrel hits, etc. They actually went through and figured out the probability behind it and it's like he's winning the lottery on every level. He ABSOLUTELY used MAME to cheat everybody. And he continually said he had never used MAME over and over again, so itt's like a double ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- sandwich.
That was how this all gained momentum. DK players started getting better and better. The really great players watched his tapes and immediately recognized that this techniques just weren't sound for a marathon game session. It wasn't sustainable. (not to mention the girder drawings and other giveaways that were later discovered...) He only recently started practicing with all of the new skills and techniques that the top players use to match his own scores.
-
The only other point I am making, which is in no way defending Billy or whatever behavior he was part of, is that TG ran his investigation like a shitshow.
Nope. they ran it by the books. You've either never read through all of the evidence or are just being obtuse on purpose. The data is so damning it's not even funny. The investigation went on for a really long time and was started by somebody far before it ever gained momentum at TG.
Go to the Donkey Kong forums and ask the players that have the top scores or read their threads.. The fact is that Billy did not have the skills to make those scores, even back then. That was why he cheated with MAME.
Again, everybody is proving my points while thinking they are arguing me. The PROBLEM is that everything was held out in the open. That is the OPPOSITE of by the books. You investigate someone, you don't make your investigation public. I don't want to be able to read the "damning evidence" in a post by post. They effectively publicly turned the knife on Billy, knowing that he has ongoing affairs invested in his gaming. That is swaying the court of public opinion and making it impossible for Billy to have a fair appeal. Sure, he probably cheated, but what about the next person who didn't but is accused of cheating?
To the rest of your garbage post i'm not even going to respond to because I told you I am not arguing for or against Billy at all. I honestly don't give a crap if he drew in his high score with a sharpie on the monitor to achieve it. I would be willing to bet over 50% of the scores on TG involved cheating. Probably higher. Most stuff they look at 20 seconds and pop in a score without looking back. Limp-dicked mob outrage is the only thing I can find consistent about how they handle their affairs over there.
-
we have seen over and over instances of players cheating at speedrun times... and usually they get found out pretty fast... usually becasue:
A: IRL game mechanics don't work they way they do in the run.
B: video submission shows evidence of splicing.
C: submission contains things inhumanly possible.
D: players submit replayed/segmented/spliced runs played back in mame instead of playing on actual hardware as often required on some classes of records.
while it is thought by the layman, that things in games come down to randomness due to the use of random number generators... the actual fact is.... "random" number generators or RNG can be manipulated, set and predicted in computers. the "random" number inside a computer is actually pseudorandom list of numbers and in actual fact, a perfectly predictable list of numbers that continuously tick through the system (a randomly generated number not using a seed will always return the same set of numbers every single time a program requests a random number from the system).... it's what the programers DO to choose the number you will use that determines the number you revive back from the system. a system reset and played back the exact same way to the exact same frame... will behave the same every single time. so developers use random like things like player input to try and make the RNG more random by, for instance, requesting and throwing away X amount of random numbers every time the player presses right. except when you do things like playback inputs in mame to "play" the game... the game always performs exactly the same and the "randomness" is no longer random. this fact can be used to prove the use of segmented runs in plays.
for example in super mario bros. on the NES, the final bowser fight hammer throw patterns seem "random" except they aren't random... the first set of hammer throws can be condensed down to a handful of patterns depending on what has happened way back in an earlier level. people who are piecing together play thoughs can be caught by the simple fact that the earlier thing that determined the end fight didn't happen and something else should have happened.
the inhuman things like moves performed that require things like pressing buttons on alternating frames or impossible combinations on a joystick (like up AND down or left AND right at the same time)
billy's lie clearly fits in section D. (for dick) he has always saying he played DK on a real machine. video evidence HE showed, displayed levels drawn incorrectly as displayed in mame... level transitions drawn in such a way that only MAME draws them. While the emulation is good, emulation is not exact. the play field in real hardware is drawn in a different order than it does in mame. Billy's video he showed off of his amazing play through shows his play fields where drawn by mame, not actual hardware. he doubles down on his lie with his crazy swap video which was said to be faked...triples down on the lie saying it's legit...but then also proved to be faked, then reneges on it saying it was done for parody purposes... quadruples down on it saying those arent his tapes, they are fakes put out by dwane richard. uhm no, you got busted bigtime. you are backpaddling.
the amount of things of he said where true and found to be suspect is ever growing and anything he says now is treated with suspicion. how can we trust anything he says/does or any of his cronies who helped him? changing stories...fake board swap video...use of mame playbacks...lousy IRL game performances...no evidence record submissions... couple all this with his ridiculous rebuttals for any evidence put against him... oh the video converter must have made it look like mame. WUT? Dwane said he was gonna make fake tapes to frame me, those aren't my tapes. WUT?
i'm telling you all here today...this is Todd's dragster all over again. he's lied and lied and lied and he's willing to go down with his ship.
-
Billy's video he showed off of his amazing play through shows his play fields where drawn by mame, not actual hardware. he doubles down on his lie with his crazy swap video which was said to be faked...triples down on the lie saying it's legit...but then also proved to be faked, then reneges on it saying it was done for parody purposes... quadruples down on it saying those arent his tapes, they are fakes put out by dwane richard.
Nice summary. So what's his actual legit high-score?
-
Nice summary. So what's his actual legit high-score?
he went to a sanctioned evens called KONG OFF and competed against other players for high score. his playstyle there was noticed that it was nowhere near the level of his "recordings" and served to only raise more suspicion.
http://donkeykongforum.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=3a55dd76aceb2e93ad6c2454d21c5f53&topic=666.0
i mean, the guy can play and get some pretty respectable scores... he just chooses to lie about how good he is. whether it's down to him hitting a wall and not being able to get any better or found out how easy it was to just record and use save states.
-
a nice long overview, and interview with Billy:
https://egmnow.com/the-split-screen-man/
later
-1